Thank you everybody. >> Star Orange, welcome to the township council meeting for September 30th, 2025. We apologize for the delay. We are a little bit behind schedule. Apparently it was an accident on 280 delaying our start and people coming into the
meeting. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to acting council president Michelle Castelino. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan. And uh before that's official, I need madame clerk to make a statement. And we need to take a vote.
Quick vote. >> Madam Madame Clerk. >> I don't know why I'm hearing feedback. Something's playing feedback for me. >> Uh, should I open to the >> Yeah, >> this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in
compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975. The annual notice was emailed to the Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16, 2025.
Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Mayor McCartney. >> Uh, let the record show that Council President Koviaak is absent tonight. So, we will be taking a motion and a second
to uh approve Councilwoman Castelino to take over as the uh council president proemporary. Is there a motion? Yeah. >> So moved. >> So moved. >> Is there a second? >> A second. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you, council colleagues.
>> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Castleino, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Take it away, Council President. Thank you and welcome everyone to the September 30th uh meeting. This is very
exciting. We have a lot of our youth teams here this evening to be recognized. It's been a while since we've recognized a team with our busy agenda. So tonight hopefully we have a lighter schedule. of you are here for the budget hearing that will commence at
7:30 p.m. And we thought tonight would be a great opportunity to welcome all our youth athletes and uh give them uh their recognition as well deserved. Um I'm going to go up to the podium. I'm going to ask the mayor to join me. Thank you.
So for over 60 years, the West Orange PL has been supporting youth programs here in the township. Young um young boys and girls and young men and ladies have been participating in these programs. Our coaches have been working hard for many
years and our parents and all the participation. And this year we're very excited with a new team that has joined the ranks of the PAL. uh last year is the girls flag football team. So let's give a hand to our ladies
and we are very exciting for you to join the other football cheerleading and baseball teams. Uh Pal has always always promoted uh uh team uh workmanship, leadership, and great citizenship in our community. And that uh that stands
proven this evening. So I'm going to ask the first team to come up for the 12U Mustangs or Coach Asar Capers. coach. And it um before I begin, if you like to say a couple words about your team
>> real quick. >> Put me on put me on the spot here. Okay. Uh first of all, I want to say thank you to the parents. You are definitely raising some great young women. Um and that made my job easier. So much easier.
Uh I love this team. They're funny. Uh they have a good time, they work hard, and the best part about it, they were competitive, and uh that reflected in their record. Uh what's coming to mind right now is that line from remember the Titans like, "Hey, we're not perfect, but this team is." So that's all I got.
That's all I got to say. And thank thank you again. >> Mayor, I've been reading the first team, the the recognition there, and then I'm going to ask my colleague All right. So, this is the West Orange
Pal 12U girls flag uh football team. Oh, let's see. The West Orange Pal 12U Mustang white team won I don't have my glasses on. I'm sorry. Uh New Jersey Suburban Youth Football League 12U girls
flag football championship on June 14th, 2025. And this is quite an accomplishment. During the second season, 12U Mustangs were let's see. Oh, thank you. Thank
Sorry. Thank you. All right. So, during the second season, they went undefeated 8 to zero. They scored at least 21 points every game and led the league in touchdowns heading into the playoffs as the number one seed. They defeated Berkeley Heights
Lady Vikings 26-13 in the championship game. Mayor and the West Orange Town Council are proud to recognize and congratulate the 12U Mustang girls flag football white team on their excellent sportsmanship and wishes them continued
success in their future. and coach, if you will call up. I'm gonna ask the coach to call up his players. >> All right. A couple players are not here, but I'm going to um recognize their name as well. We have Naomi. >> Monroe Finley,
>> aka Matty B. Madison Grove. >> Maddie. Hi. >> Ellie Gomez. Clara Lee Marriage Faith aka Grandma. Last but not least, Jade Scott.
Thank you all. Thank you all. >> Thank you very much. Parents, you want to take a picture? Come right up here and see. No. Go. >> Everybody look this way. is flash and hold because of the parents here.
How about that? >> Yeah. >> Do the same thing. >> Okay. Thank you very much and congratulations on a great year. Next, I'm going to ask Coach Dominic D Pasqual to come up for
the 14. >> Wow. >> Wow. Coach, impressive. Your team must like you. I like that. Coach, if you'd like to say a few words about your team before we read the recognition. >> Good evening. Uh this year our team had
the opportunity to go back-to-back uh championships. Uh something that's very tough to do in any sport. Uh coming from behind uh coming from the number four seed, defeating the number one seed to get into the championship and then beating the number two seed to uh win
the championship. It's a it's a very major accomplishment that they had and uh I'm just very proud of how they played the rest of the season. So thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, I'm gonna ask uh my councilwoman Scarp to hand these out. Um, council, I
mean, uh, Mayor Paresi, if you'd like to read this in a minute, >> I'm sorry. Sorry, >> we've been doing this a long time. >> I think that's right. >> All right. So, this is the West Orange
PAL 14U Navy girls flag football team. They won the New Jersey sub suburban Youth Football League Girls Flag Football Championship on June 14, 2025, making this a back-to-back championship win. Quite an accomplishment.
During the second season of the league, the 14U Mustang Navy team went 4 to2 for the season. They led the lead in touchdowns heading into the playoffs as a number four seed. With determination and hard work and a positive attitude,
the team ran through the playoffs letting up only one touchdown. They defeated Berkeley Heights Junior Highlanders 27 to2 in a championship game. So on behalf of the mayor, West Orangetown Council, we are proud to recognize and congratulate the 14U
Mustang Navy girls flag football team on their excellent sportsmanship, great spirit, and continued success for your future. Okay. Genesis Gomez, Jordan Brunson, >> Julia Philadelphia, >> Jaylen Okasio,
Sophia Coino, Ari Maddox, Ava Anton, Kimberly Lopez, Ellie Lano, Yia Morales,
Violet Harvey, McKenzie Ratundi, and Ali Login. I'm just curious who's the >> way this way. I used to do this way. Okay, hold on.
Thank you. Before I call our next team up, I just want to take a minute to uh recognize our two board members that are here tonight from the WO uh pal and that is Dominique D Pasqual and Cheryl Merkellinger.
As we all know, the hard work does not go undone without the hard dedication of these uh dedicated board members. For many years, they have been uh donating countless hours of their time and dedication to to all of your sports and
to make sure they're successful uh working with our high school staff and making sure we have great feeder programs. And now there's a girls flag football team up at West Orange High School. How about that? >> So, we're really excited that our
theater programs have been producing up at the high school and and a perfect example of that, the next coach that I want to have up here and we want to give his kudos on having a good year and and hopefully the rest of the season is coach Darnell Grant.
Okay, coach just got to say a few words about his team. >> Kids, you guys just don't know how lucky you are. I mean, to be a part of a a community where they really put an emphasis on sports and show you how much they care about it is awesome. Um, we had a great year, you know, we had a
really, really good group of dedicated young men. They practice really hard every day and it showed in the way we played. We had a awesome season. We won every championship we reentered and won outside tournaments as well. And these guys are also now a part of undefeated freshman team. So hopefully we'll be
back holding a gold trophy in a couple years. Thanks. >> I'm going to ask Councilwoman uh Rhoden to help us hand out the certificates and Mayor McCartney to work.
>> Thank you, Coach. All right, so let's find out what they did. The West Orange Pal 7 by74U Mustang Navy team won the first ever New Jersey Suburban Youth Football League 7
77 football championship on June 14th, 2025. This is again quite an accomplishment. During this inaugural season, the 14U Mustangs Navy team went 7 to1. They scored at least 20 points every game and led the league in
touchdowns heading into the playoffs as the number one seed. They defeated Bloomfield Cardinals 43 to 29 in the championship game. So on behalf of the mayor and the town council, we are proud to recognize and congratulate the 14U
Mustang Navy football team on their excellent sportsmanship and we wish them continued success. Delani Adams, Kayen Glen Grant, Maiden Grant, Ryan Hunter, Yan
Boden, Amaru Barhart, Haley Mo Jr., David Winer, the Golden War Sabers, and Caleb Harden. Also, we have uh Also, we have our defensive coordinator
in the win tonight, Coach Cyrus Harvard. He also helped out. Everybody look this way. >> He's a star. Hey, >> great job, guys. Thank you. Okay, next >> up at bat we have ourh baseball coaches
here this evening. Coach Joel Diaz and Brett Maui. They'll be here for AU Mustangs program. Thank you, coach. Quite a few other say. >> Yeah. So, we've uh we had the privilege of
coaching these uh young kids in the AU level and a bunch of our kids were new to the game, never played before. And we had an up and down season, but they really turned it on, especially in the playoffs. They won every game, championship game. We were down two to
one in the fourth inning and we won 12 to four. 12 to four. These kids really picked it up. Well, coach, you know, we coach and I and there's another coach back there, Coach Carl. You know, Carl,
come up here, Carl. Come on. Uh because it does take a lot of help to develop these kids, keep them on track, push them hard, and stuff like that. Is it can't just be done by one person. So, we had a nice supporting
staff here. We pushed these kids and we saw the great development from day one to the last day and uh I'm just proud of them. >> Thank you. I'm going ask the mayor to say a few words. >> All right. So,
this is a West Orange Pal 8U Mustangs baseball team. They won the New Providence League 8U championship on July 28th, 2025. Again, another great accomplishment. During the summer season, the 8U team went 361,
making a strong comeback during the play playoffs. They defeated Clark 11 to 5 to secure their spot in the championship game. They defeated Union Little League 12 to4 in the championship game. So on behalf of the mayor and the West Orangetown Council, we're proud to
recognize and congratulate the PA pal 8U Mustang Baseball team on their excellent sportsmanship and we wish you continued success throughout the year. Congratulations. Coaches, call the players up. And Councilman Ruden, if you could be so
kind to hand these out. >> Oliver Sterling. >> Garrett Sterling. Garrett. Come on. Garrett. Garrett. Wes. Wesley. Come on, Wes. Anthony Anthony Manon,
Trevor McNeel, Jacob Viaz, both of you. Oliver, I called you already. Jacob, come up. Raise your hand if you're gonna play for the >> Okay, Parents have Okay, everyone before before everybody
leaves We have one last thank you and that is to your parents and your family who gets you to all your practices and come to watch all your games. Let's give them a big round of applause. And as much as I would love for all of
you to stick around for the rest of the meeting, I know it's been long, so we'll take a a five minute recess um if you want to stick around. But actually before we do we now we'll we'll we'll we'll let you guys go. So we're starting
the budget hearing at 7:30 but we're just going to break for five minutes because then we have our council liaison appointments. Thank you everybody for coming on down and have a great year. >> Welcome back West Orange. Thank you for your patience during the break. We are
going to resume the meeting with council liaison announcements. There will be no indication on the screen because Mr. Dutiac has the uh remote and is setting up for the budget presentation, final budget presentation. So, at this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to council president.
>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Fagan, and thank you members of the public for being so patient with us tonight. We feel it's really important to recognize our our youth uh sports teams and uh for all their hard work uh that they do throughout the year. Uh so just before
we start our council liaison appointments because we're still technically in conference agenda. Um we are going to at 7:30 have a public hearing on the budget. Any uh public comments at that time will be had after
our CFO presents the budget to the public. And then after that session closes out, then we'll we will take public comment on all other public matters. So I just want everyone to know um I had asked madame clerk to put it that way on the
agenda. Um so I didn't want folks to come in early and and waste, you know, and and feel that they were just sitting around. But we're trying to get everything done in a timely manner and we don't want to be talking about the budget at 11:00 at night sometimes uh when um we're talking about these
numbers. So I appreciate everyone's support and patience. With that, Councilwoman Scarpa, council leaison announcements. >> Thank you. Okay, the planning board. A lot going on with the planning board. I want to thank all of the residents, the
many residents who attended our affordable housing meeting and gave us some such thoughtful comments. Chairman Bagoff heard you. He actually tabled the vote and was hoping
to consider some of the revisions that that you would like to see made. Um, we are having another meeting on November 5th to with those revised affordable housing revisions and some some more
thought about what how we're approaching this. And I think it's important that everyone come out and take a look at how we are developing our township. The older adults advisory board is always on the move. We have been working
so hard and provided business plans to the mayor and Laura van Djk for many new programs all utilizing volunteers with no cost to the township and we're looking forward to working with them to
implement some more programs. I do want to say that our seniors, since we're talking about the budget tonight, are calling me and feeling that they're not getting a return on the investment of their tax dollars and would like to see more programming and something that is
kind of a little kind of a senior program where they can have lunch together and have more programming at the cat center. U most townships, as you may know, have senior centers. We are working towards that. We don't right
now, but we really appreciate all of the increased programming that Laura Van Djk has been giving us and we're working really hard with her to um to implement a lot of our programs. Uh many of the seniors have expressed interest in
continuing our supper club which we had started and are even talking about a happy hour at Rockspring. So, if anyone is interested, just contact me and we will putting be putting some of those programs together this fall.
>> And that's about it. >> Thank you, Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yeah, I have a just a couple of couple of things. Um the pedestrian safety um meeting this month was analyzing different um accidentprone areas in West Orange, particularly Prospect in Eagle
Rock and Eagle Rock and Pleasant Valley Way. And um looking over statistics of how those are our two most dangerous intersections. And you know, I'd like to we we talked about requesting a Ruter
study on what the impact of this affordable housing plan, which is really heavy heavy heavy on Pleasant Valley Way will be if more development is planned. And right now, um just so that you know the numbers, uh 1,217 new units are
planned along Pleasant Valley Way alone. So the impact that this will have along that corridor is tremendous. Um, we are also starting to look at um the impact of ebikes and safety in town and what should be done to possibly regulate
ebikes um in town. Unfortunately, this week we've had a lot of sadness in the news with two young girls being um killed by bicycles and um I think there was another ebike accident and it's just we need to get ahead of this and see
what we can do to protect our streets and our children and our residents and a lot of our kids are using ebikes when they go to school. So, um this is something that we're just going to be starting with. I just wanted to say that yesterday it was really a wonderful opportunity for um our township to speak
directly with traffic engineers who have crafted a wonderful plan to help address the downtown um parking issue. Um and um I for one am really excited about what
their what their plan offers and very very supportive of moving this forward so that people downtown don't have to run around all night looking for parking and can't find um parking in the morning. So, um really excited about that plan and I look forward to their
their um report coming back to the council and us being able to move forward to help this this area of town in particular. Um I also attended um something on behalf of the township. There's an organization called MEND um
which deals with food scarcity and we do have tremendous food scarcity in West Orange. Um, MEND is a fabulous organization that has been supporting our food pantry here and um, I'm going to be working with them in the future
just just in terms of more ideas of how we can help our kids. Um right now we do have a stationary bus like a van right outside of the middle school that has been offered to us by um Tony's kitchen and it would be
nice to see if we could get some food options going in there for the children when they come out of school. Um so that's that's it for my oh one other thing I just wanted to say. Um, it's been a a long and noisy spring and summer and um, those of us who were
proponents of banning gas powered blowers have not given up. And so I just wanted to invite everybody to attend a forum on October 29th. Um, Maplewood and Montlair are putting together a forum in
Maplewood on a at 7 pm talking about learning from municipal leaders, advocates, health experts, land care professionals, and um, everybody who puts public health first for the for their community. So, this is a great
opportunity for people in the town to come and learn more about the benefits of going um gas gas-free in our blowing equipment. And I urge everybody who has an interest in this and who would like to see West Orange move along this path
to attend and learn from the two towns that have successfully done this and are boasting about how much it is saving them. And that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. And you know, thank you because education component uh is important and that's what we've been
saying all along is for folks to get educated on um you know the the pros and the cons so they could make the right choices for their their properties. Um I'm going to keep mine short because we're approaching 7:30, but down I want to thank you uh to all the my downtown
alliance team for all their hard work. Um, next week, uh, downtown New Jersey will be in and they will will be spending two days in town, uh, with us up and down Main Street. So, Miss Bril and her team is very busy, uh, welcoming them here, will help us, uh, with their
input, um, provide, uh, us more additional support with obtaining grants for our downtown quarter as well as strategies and, um, and support. So that's we're looking forward to next Wednesday and Thursday here. Uh this
past week there was a few ribbon cutings. I'm not sure if Mr. uh Fagan has them. Uh but if not, um we welcome the uh libraries, the cannabis retail operator in Washington uh street. Uh Wasabi Sushi reopens. Beautiful. If you
haven't had a chance to go visit them, they uh renovated the entire restaurant. It looks beautiful. And uh Oko um is is back as well. Um they had some uh time as well for some uh items that they were
doing in in their establishment. So we welcome them all back and uh we look forward to folks uh supporting them. Speaking of support too, um you know, up at the uh Kmart Plaza, we're very excited with Target coming in. Um, but
just a reminder of the restaurants uh that are and the businesses that are still uh there while all that construction's going on. So, if you get an opportunity to support uh them, please do so. I was up at Frank's Pizza the other day, you can get to the back
there, American Freight's back there and some other businesses. You can get there. So, um please make sure you remember that they are there and go support. With that, it is now 7:30. I'm going to ask Madame Clerk to open up the uh public hearing.
>> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the Star Ledger and the West Orange Chronicle on January 7th, 2025, and
published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman Ruden here. Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. Council President Castelino >> present. >> Mayor McCartney. Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance?
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their public meeting.
>> Thank you, Madame Clerk. So, I'm going to turn the um the program over to our chief financial officer, Mr. John Datiniac, who has been working diligently uh and uh this past year. Um and yeah,
so I know you have something on the screen for us. You want to start there or you want to a statement first? Okay. >> Uh thank you, Council President. So, um I'm going to be brief. Uh we've had a lot of uh documented hearings uh about
this budget and I understand we have other business to get to. Um so I'm going to talk about um what was essentially the introduced budget from July 22nd with a reference to the pending uh amendment resolution that
we're going to hopefully adopt on October 16th. Um, I guess just my my opening statement would be that um, you know, this was my first budget year uh, in West Orange. I've learned a lot through this process. Um, and you know,
I think as as a group, administration, governing body, um, the leadership for the township, um, we understand that, you know, the approach for 2026 has to be different. Um, and we're we're committed to uh a new approach uh an
approach that uh hopefully brings us all together uh in a way that maybe the 2025 budget approach didn't. Um, so let me kick things off with the impacts. Um, so what was the 2025 introduced budget?
Because again, this hearing is on the introduced budget. What was the impact on the average home? Um, so not talking about the school board, not talking about the county, um, just municipal
operations in the library. The increase, um, from 2024 to 2025 for the average home is approximately $994. And the breakdown for that is $80.83 for municipal operations and $1821
for the municipal library levy. I'll speak louder because of the air. Um the municipal operations that includes police and fire and recreation and all the support staff uh in finance and tax and senior programming, health
department. Um that's municipal operations. The library levy is uh is mandated by state statute and it's based on the the net valuation taxable of the of the township and we send that levy over to the municipal library to use for
their own operations. So, a budget amendment that uh is is the fruit of the the last, you know, six or seven budget hearings uh is going to reduce that total increase to approximately $47
uh21. So, down from $994 to $4721. Um that was through the budget hearings and and the assistance of the citizens budget advisory board and and the council. um recognizing the the impact
of the revaluation on many of the residents and and what that revaluation has done from a year-over-year tax impact. I think it was important to the council to get the increase um as low as as we possibly could. Uh so, like I said, on the 16th, we're going to
introduce an amendment um that's going to reduce that increase. So, on the municipal operations side, it's, you know, $29 or so. Um, so what do we do? Uh, it's, uh, as a township, we have more than 47,000
residents, 14,000 households. We have nearly 500 commercial and industrial property owners. We maintain a 100 miles of roads and sewers uh, within a 12.2 square mile area. And the the roads and the sewers, it's uh, it's not flat. This
is a a hilly municipality which presents many challenges for our infrastructure. We have approximately 333 acres of parkland and township owned properties. Uh and it happens 24 hours per day, 365
days a year. So what is included? What do you get for your municipal taxes? I used to have a an old CFO that say, "What don't you get um for your municipal taxes?" So you get a an amazingly beautiful
public library with breakout spaces and you know video conferencing. Uh you get a jity service that you know services the entire town. We're running seven routes I think now.
Um snow removal on these these hilly roads. Um you know I West Orange does it about as be as good as anybody else. Um, of course, garbage, which, you know, you go to many places in New Jersey and it's like, wait, you get bulk pickup every
week. Um, pick up twice a week for your garbage. You know, that that costs a lot of money, but it's it's what the people want and um it's what they get. Incredible recreation programs like we had the teams here. Um, you know, that
speaks for itself. We have a fire paid fire department uh and paid EMS. you call 911 here and you get somebody at your house within, you know, probably less than two minutes. Um, you know, that that is a is what you pay for when
you have paid fire. You know, volunteer fire and EMS is great, but the response times in many of the communities that that uh that have volunteer are not as fast as as the the paid uh departments like we have in West Orange. Uh, we have
an incredible police force. Uh, the leaf removal. I don't know if I want to touch leaf removal, but we do it. Um, township celebrations, that is not a firework. That is a sparkler. It's not a firework, just sparklers. Um,
and senior services and and really, you know, the list goes on. We have incredibly dedicated staff, uh, you know, down the line from staff to to leadership. um that that pour everything
of themselves into this job and you know it's wonderful to be supported by administration and the governing body in everything that we do. So where do my taxes go? Um this is a a
pretty typical breakout um for taxes in Essex County. So, the lion share of your tax dollars go to the board of education to support the schools and and and all the programs uh and salaries and wages and all the costs
of of educating students. Um that's 62% of your tax bill. Uh then we have the county taking up roughly 11%. Um the library is a little bit more than 1% but you know we're getting to pretty
small percentages here. And then we have a municipal open space fund uh which we we are maintaining that uh that same levy despite the the the revalc increase in the net valuation taxable. Um so that
again we're being cognizant of the fact that the tax impact of the reval on a lot of our residents. We did not increase that municipal open space levy. And then we have the township piece uh which is 25% of your tax bill. And again, that's what gets the paid uh fire
and EMS. It's police services, garbage, it's snow plowing, it's road repairs, it's recreation, it's building department, it's uh code enforcement, senior services, you know, again, all of the different services that the township
provides. That's 25% of your tax bill. Um, so our municipal budget, so what drives our municipal budget and from a very high level, it's personnel costs. Um, you know, the the men and women that that work for the township, um, they are
the biggest cost driver for this budget. Uh so it's not just salaries, it's health insurance, it's workers compensation insurance, it's costs related to the pension system that we uh participate in, the public employee retirement system and the police and
fire retirement system. Um they they are driving uh the the the the total budget basically. And then we have fixed costs. Um fixed costs are related to our debt service, our capital, um liability
insurance, uh you know, payment to the joint sew joint meeting for for sewer um treatment. Uh and then it's everything else. And the everything else is um you know when we need to pay for our our
buildings or we need to do um you know repairs to equipment or you know paying for our operating costs for our police and fire and DPW. Um but again the major driver is our personnel. Um
so what were the drivers for the 2025 appropriations? So, we really had minimal increases in debt service and capital this year. Um, we've hit sort of a ceiling in terms of of debt costs. Now, that is obviously
influenced by uh short-term markets because we do have a pretty sizable short-term bond anticipation note out there. So, you know, as rates go up, obviously the interest costs for those notes are going to go up. And you know
the inverse is that as rates go down we see a savings in terms of uh when we roll those notes the interest rates that we're getting. Um deferred charges. So what is a deferred charge? Uh the state of New Jersey allows the township um to
spread the costs of certain things out over the course of three to five years. things like the revaluation can be raised over five years so that we don't have to ask the taxpayer for all of that money upfront uh in the form of a tax
increase. So, you know, we have deferred charges that we're raising over the course of five years. And so, year-over-year that deferred charge amount has gone up $140,000 insuranceances. So we we went up a million dollars in insurance largely
driven by by the health uh insurance program. So you know high level real quick our our health insurance plan covers both our active employees and our retirees. Um and actually the the legacy costs for the retirees are are
approaching what we pay for our active employees. um our active employees do contribute to the the cost of the health insurance. That's legislation passed by uh Governor Christie um called Chapter 78. So, you know, our our employees are
paying a lot more for insurance uh from when they first signed up to be uh municipal employees. Um but what we do is we try to be flexible and adapt to the market. So we are not in the state health benefits program. If anybody here
or at home has followed the state health benefits plan for the last couple of years, the costs have dramatically increased to where I think they even put out an article that they were in a death spiral. Um so that 2026 increase for state health benefits is 36%. the
township of West Orange um decided some years ago that we would be self-insured for our claims. And that again allows us for where when we have years that are good, you know, we can put money aside um for when those years then are not so
good. Um so right now we're self-insured for healthcare claims. We have a a private plan for prescriptions and then we have for our Medicare um we're part of the the health insurance fund. Um but every year we work with our
professionals to see if there's areas where we can save and we're doing that right now for for 2026 pension costs. So, um, all of our full-time employees, uh, if if they're eligible, which most of them are, um,
are in one of two pension systems. The public employee retirement system or the police and fire retirement system. Obviously, our public safety personnel would be in that second pension, police and fire. And there's an annual appropriation cost for um, for those
pension systems. So our employees do contribute our our public employees contribute 7 and a half% of their salary into the pension and our police and fire contribute 10%. And then every year the state of New Jersey um you know they
determine a a funding percentage uh using an actuarial service AON uh they send us a bill that's payable on April 1st um and it's in the millions of dollars uh and there's nothing we can do. We have to pay that bill. Um
thankfully year-over-year we actually had a a bit of a reduction in in pension costs and that was based on um the base year salary uh which was uh June of 2023 that was used for the calculation.
Salaries and wages um are our biggest increase. It's our biggest part of our budget. the township settled contracts with all of the unions um back in uh the December of 2024
um and it reflected an increase in 2024 and in 2025. So that we really have two years of increases in this budget. Uh and that is one of the major drivers of appropriations was um the contractual
increases for all of our unions. So, full-time employees, uh, I thought this was a really interesting, uh, chart. You know, we've dipped from a high of 375 employees back in, and this
is full-time um, back in 2006 to this number is actually from today. I did update it today, 292 full-time employees. So, you know, headcount has gone down. Um but again I you know we try to deliver the same great service
doing more with less uh because again we're we're very cognizant of the fact that the employees uh and their salaries and their fringe benefits uh impact the budget tremendously. So, uh, we're trying to be very smart in how we deploy
headcount and and and who we hire and how we hire and and and sort of managing uh the increases because, you know, when you hire someone, the cost for that employee will typically go up over the years with the STEP programs
that we have in place with all of our our unions. uh total total personnel costs. Again, we had the settlement of the contract, the fringe benefit costs with the the cost of insurance and and the calculation of pension um driving up
personnel costs. So, looking ahead, um you know, we have a lot of work to do. we've already started for 2026 but you know our debt is been mentioned many many times in this room um we have come up with a debt
management plan uh that I I think at some point I will present um but we're going to continue to seek ways to manage our debt profile uh that's being strategic when we go out in the market for permanent financing and how we time
those things it's going after Green Acres money like for the Rock Spring property and and and managing the pay down of that debt so that we're not permanently financing an amount larger than we need to. Uh and again, it's it's it's being strict and and following the
debt management plan that, you know, I've worked out with with the financial advisors that we we utilize. the health care costs like I talked about we we try to stay very flexible and and you know we can make moves on an annual basis
that if we would been stuck in state health benefits that we really can't um you know we look at all different avenues the HIFS private insurance being self-insured like this for 2026 we were talking about being self-insured for
prescription drug drugs and and taking advantage of all the reimbursements that are on um you know all the weight loss drugs like WGOI and Zepbound. You know being in private insurance we don't get the benefit of the reimbursements the private insurance company does. So again
we're we're never trying to just stay with one thing. We're looking to see what's going to give um the best value to our taxpayers. Evaluating our third party vendor relationships from a costbenefit perspective. I I I think this is something that the council has asked
for. I know it has it's something that the council's asked for. Um so we're looking at that right now. Um you know, can we do things in house versus going out and and um you know, seeking a third party vendor to do things. Um you know,
we don't want to just, you know, do the same thing every single year. Uh you know, we want to improve every single year. And you know, I have a relatively small staff, so we look to to work on the biggest bang for our buck projects,
and this is one of them. Um, we've talked about this before, determining the need and the financial viability of creating a separate utility for sewer, parking, and or storm water. Um, we had uh the engineers, traffic engineers come in
and and talk about an overhaul for our parking. you know, is it something that maybe we want to have as a separate utility because there's going to be some capital involved. I think everybody is talking about storm water and and some municipalities have already started storm water utilities. So, we need to
explore that and you know there's money available from the state to really study that. Uh and and then finally sewer. I know that um you know the sewer bill is is is something that's a sore spot. I'm in that office in the tax office. I hear all the phone calls about the bedrooms
and all that. Um, we just haven't had the capability to do it any other way. Um, we're putting some systems in place in 2026 that, you know, will give us some some different options for how we
we approach uh sewer billing and possibly putting together utility um might be something we want to pursue. And then um you know in coordination with our cash management and our our debt management plan roll out a a
comprehensive multi-year capital plan that addresses infrastructure, buildings, roads, parks, equipment, and vehicles. Um you know, it's been done in the past, but I think the piece that's always been missing is the debt management. Um, so
when you sort of can work in the confines of the debt management, it makes these these capital plans more realistic rather than just throwing everything that you want at it. Um, we have to be strategic because we have to sort of live within our means. Um, and
so we just had a meeting today where we addressed some of the department heads. Um, and we're we're we're working on this for um, you know, this multi-year plan as part of our 2026 budget. Uh, that's all I have, Council President. Um, I didn't want to take up too much
time. And if the if madame clerk wants to open up the public hearing on the introduced budget, she can. >> Yeah. Before we do that, thank you very much, Mr. Tutiniac. I just need a clarification cuz I don't have all my budget books with me as we had quite a
few from when we first received the budget in April. Um then we had a few uh versions uh of the budget. I have two and the July 22nd one. So, in the beginning of the uh statement on the
first slide, it said that tax uh the uh the amount of taxes due from the average homeowner was $994. Was that after we made a series of cuts and that's what we introduced because we
started out at $277, right? >> Uh to the taxpayer, >> right? So, >> okay. >> Yeah. I just talked about the introduce because that's what the hearing is on. But >> Sure. >> So if if we go back to April,
>> yeah, we had a 6% budget increase. I just don't want the taxpayers to think, you know, what were they doing all summer? Are they crazy that we started off >> for $99? >> We started off with a $261
increase. That was $243 on operations >> and $18 on the library. You know, we we can't influence the library number. It's been $18 since the start. >> So, yeah, we started this process back in April at $261 on the average home and
then we got it down collectively um administration working with the governing body to to the $99 I reference here. And then um we had more budget hearings during the summer after the introduction uh and that's what's
leading to this amendment to reduce it even further. >> Okay, that's what I thought because I I know all our hard work from April to June, I didn't want that to go unnoticed. Um also just a quick question on budget driver and um you know we had
and just I just want folks to understand this because I know they're going to get up to the podium. So, we had two years worth of increases because uh of the last um of the last uh negotiation that we did with our our contracts
and and I had asked you this a while ago. I just want them to understand it. There should have been an increase calculated in last year's budget, but the former CFO didn't have that in there. So I just wanted you to explain that how this year we got like double
charged because of the timing of when the negotiation hit. >> Yeah. So um and it frequently happens where um you know the contract term runs out and and the collected bargaining units are out of contract so they're not
getting a cost of living increase. Um so that's what 2024 was. Um the contracts had ended at the end of 2023. We were negotiating in 2024. Um but for budgetary purposes, there wasn't
an increase factored into that 2024 budget that contemplated settling the contract for that year. Of course, you know, we we ended up settling the contract with an increase in 2024. um you know we did our best to mitigate it but uh it was an increase
nonetheless. So 2025 had to incorporate essentially two years of of increases >> and and moving forward that that calculation should somewhat all you never know the exact amount but that money should have been there because you have to account for that. >> Yeah. I mean it it it should be noted. I
mean sometimes you don't really want to show your hand. >> Yeah. No, I get it. You got to have it in your pocketbook. probably put 3% in there for you guys because then they're going to say, "Well, we want at least 3%." But yeah, it >> okay, >> you know, we we should have worked
something more into that 2024 budget, but um you know, again, it's it's difficult to predict. It could have been zeros for 2024 and then, you know, >> sure, >> that would have been the smart play to not uh to not overload the budget. So,
it's it's a difficult situation and it's I don't want a Monday morning quarterback too much, but um that's just the reality of it. We had to put two years in. >> Understandable. I just want to hit those points before I ask the public to come up and then my colleagues will get a chance um to ask uh multiple questions
after the public speaks. But I just want the public to note that there will be a presentation on debt and finance um with the uh our our debt plan in the near future. uh when uh council president Kakoviaak re returns. Um so we need to
schedule that and for a special meeting. So I just wanted to note that. So if there's any question there will be a thorough presentation on that in the near future. Uh with that madame clerk um if you could read the rules and rags for the hearing please.
>> Okay. This is the time fixed for the public hearing on the municipal budget and tax resolution for 2025. The budget was introduced on first reading by the township council on July 22nd, 2025 and was advertised as required on July 24th,
2025. Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Councilwoman Castalina, >> present. >> Before opening this hearing, I wish to outline the procedure. Each person desiring to be heard will rise and give
his or her name and address before speaking. The chair will recognize one speaker at a time in the order of rising as nearly as they can determine. Address all questions to the chair. Where necessary, they will be referred to individual members of the governing body or
municipal officials. Questions must be confined solely to the municipal budget before us. School or county matters are not proper subjects of this hearing and cannot be discussed or answered here tonight. Uh, is there a motion to open the public hearing on the municipal
budget and tax resolution of 2025? >> I'll make a motion. >> A second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Castelina, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> All set.
>> All set. >> Okay. Thank you, Madam Clerk. So, I'm going to uh just remind folks that this is for budget hearing only. If you were here for any other com uh public comment, we will be accepting that after we close out the budget hearing. And
also, if you're coming to the podium and if you're referencing one of uh our budget booklet, if you could please note the page uh and the category that you're referencing so our CFO can answer you accordingly if that's what you wish to
do. With that being said, would anyone like to uh come up to the podium to ask any questions for the public hearing on the 2025 introduced budget? Okay, Miss Lewitz. Okay.
And five minutes, correct? Correct. Yes, five minutes, please. If you could stick to the five minutes. Sheila Lecoitz, 703 Pleasant Valley Way. Good evening, everyone. I want to thank this town council and to the citizens
budget advisory board for all the hard work that you did to help our town live within its means by putting together a municipal budget that we can be proud of. While the savings to taxpayers in this
municipal budget might be slightly south of $200 per the average West Orange taxpayer, it will be refreshing for West Orange taxpayers to have that money still in their pockets.
Think about our increased Think about our increased school taxes. That was about $263 for the average West Orange taxpayer out of the pocket. Our increased sewer
tax, increases in electric bills, increases in food prices, increases in car insurance, increases in college tuitions, increases in health care premiums, increased costs in home
maintenance. If the West Orange Town Council and the Citizens Budget Advisory Board can work together to fix runaway spending, it proves that any other town can do the same. Congratulations on
being an example to other towns and school boards to look up to when they seek to live within their means instead of unnecessarily shifting the financial burden to the taxpayer. Thank you. Kudos.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Miss Bennett Council. Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. So, um, as a member of the citizen budget advisory board, I will tell you
that it was a pleasure serving the community in that capacity and working alongside of all of you in um, addressing a budget that was filled with opportunities to cost. Um, I will say I was a little surprised to
hear the final number since I attended every budget workshop and uh was I'm fairly certain we were down to approximately $47 maybe under and I know that there were an additional two or $300,000 cut.
>> So, um, that math is not mathing. Um, I would hope that you would get to the bottom of how that occurred and um address um a lot of the uh fake news around the process. We
certainly did have a number of workshops, but those workshops were um very productive in that without cutting services and without cutting salaries, you had the opportunity to save every
taxpayer significant amounts of money. I think the goal, our goal was to make sure that if there was a tax increase that it was the minimum possible. And I think that um some more than others work tirelessly or effortlessly, but we all
work together. Now, I will tell you um I'm not speaking on behalf of the citizen budget advisory board, but it was really pleasant process. Every person that you each selected um was uh wonderful to work with. we each brought a different set of um talents and I
think we did a really nice job of working collaboratively and providing you with some real tangible ways in which you could cost save for the community. So, I thank you for taking those uh recommendations and all your efforts, but I would ask that you get to
the bottom of why we are not under $40 um per average household and why that number um has increased again uh to about $99. Thank you. >> Thank you, Bennett. And thank you to the committee for all
their hard work and spent many, many hours over the summer months. Would any uh anyone else from the public like to speak at the public hearing? With that being said, Oh, sorry. Uh Madame Clerk,
>> is there a motion to close the public hearing? >> I make a motion to close the public hearing. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Castelino, >> yes. >> The motion carries.
>> Okay, great. Now, I'm going to ask Mr. Datiniac if he could please address uh the question about $47. Did you say 2301? I heard 2301 also. >> We're we're we're at 40. Well, with the
amendment it's $47. >> Okay. So, tonight it's with the amendment or >> the amendment the total municipal. So, local tax and library tax is $47.99. >> That that includes the library. >> Yeah. Oh, without taking out the library. What?
>> $29. >> Exactly. Okay. Thank you. So that's the number we we went down from. >> And I think it's really important. It's really important that the taxpayers know that. I'm sorry. No, that's okay. I just Let's speak. I want >> local tax not including the library
would be $29.75. The >> Okay. Thank Thank you. Thank you. because we thought we heard in the 20s at the last budget hearing and uh I'm sorry, budget workshop. So that is refreshing to hear. We're still in the 20. So thank you to
>> all and right now I'm going to ask my colleagues if they have questions or a statement to make. I'll start with Councilwoman Ruden. >> No, I'm just glad that we're we're almost there. Um it was a lot of fun, I
have to say. Um, I I think that, you know, we're all we're all learning. This is not this is not my money. This is not, you know, the council's money. It's not the mayor's money. It's not the administration's money. It's your money. And we need to be responsive and
responsible to you. And I think that finding out and digging in and you know we had the we had the grace of unfortunately doing this late because the the the budget was delivered to us late that we were able to see where people were in the process and how much
they had actually spent and to try and tie those accounts to real spending. So, I I think that, you know, I'm really proud of the work that we did collaboratively and I hope to to keep um shining a light on how your money is
being spent and um try to always keep in mind that this is real money to you. Like like um Miss Lewit said, it's money in your pocket. We should never take that for granted and these these expenses need to be thought through very
carefully and examined. So, I'm really um happy to be almost done with my first budget cycle and I'm I'm glad that glad that we were able to achieve really quite quite a significant drop from more
than 6% to just barely over a percent. Not even a percent, half a percent. Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. I'd like to thank Mr. Datiniac. I His leadership has really been refreshing. Um, I've been through a
couple budget uh cycles already, but he has been uh spent so much time with us answering our questions, explaining many things that appeared to be more complex than they had to be in the past
and has made this um more understandable and more workable for all of us. And so, thank you so much, Mr. Datiniac. know how many hours and how excruciating this has been in especially in a politically
in charged environment and he has handled himself. I am so impressed with the way he has handled himself. Thank you so much. Um I want to say to the citizens budget advisory board, thank you for all your hard work. I know how
much time and effort you put into this, but I want to warn you that this is a work in progress. With our new ordinance, you are going to be an invaluable resource for us throughout the entire year. And so the public
should understand that as as Councilwoman Ruden said, we take the management of your tax dollars very seriously. and uh Councilman Koviaak had reworked the ordinance for us so that the Citizens Budget Advisory Board is
not just going to be working with us at budget season, but we are going to be looking to streamline our operations throughout the year. So, thank you so much for all your hard work. >> Thank Thank Council. Thank you,
Councilwoman. Um yeah, you know, I just want to thank everyone involved. Um, we're almost there. Uh, a lot of time was spent, but I really I have to really thank the staff because this was very stressful on our staff. And um, and Mr.
Dutinia, you came in, you walked into circumstances that, you know, in other positions you may not have walked into. And um, we we appreciate all the effort and time you put in. And same with Mr. Smaldo and the rest of the staff. The
directors really was tough on them. uh because they you know they came they were present lots of questions but you know we're all learning to I know mayor there's I I know it wasn't easy for you either it it you know but you know we're
all learning and going to have a new process new systems coming in which I think is going to help with the with the way we do things in the future and we all get automated um you know we went from a a a little town to turning it to
the city here. So, um there's a lot on the plate and it's important that we keep the taxes down. Thank you to our two speakers tonight because you couldn't have said it better. Um but you know, we haven't we didn't touch services. We didn't you know, we every
the raises went through so we had our salaries increases and um and most importantly, we did we did not touch programming and that was key. Um but we did have the benefit. we're able to get it down, which isn't a good practice to be late because we had an estimated
third quarter tax bill, which we cannot do next year and we need to make sure we get the tax done earlier. But what really was a benefit that we were able to see what was actually spent and uh we were able to um you know been able to
take from there to to make some cuts. So that was uh instrumental in this process. Uh with that being said, um I just just just couple quick housekeeping items before we move on. But the amendment presentation itself that will
be on October 16th, correct? Right. >> And what is what do we expect for that? How >> we're going to have a public hearing on the amendment and then we'll adopt the budget as amended. We'll adopt the resolution and then the budget as amended. And then as far as the
amendments itself, if I recall this correctly, do you have to go down each one individually? I'm just trying to how to budget time for the next meeting. >> Um, it's just a resolution. Um, and it's we'll have another public hearing just
on that resolution. Um, okay. It's it's laid out, >> you know, in the format of the budget and the changes, the from and to. So be very clear what's been reduced and >> Okay. So if anyone wants to comment on any of the amendments only, they could
>> on the amendment only. Yeah. >> Okay. On the amendment only. Okay. That's important to know. >> I don't think it's required to be read, but >> what was the question, madam clerk? >> Is it required to be read in full? >> So that's what I remember here and line by line. So we could just double check
and let >> we'll read it if that's >> again just budgeting time because I know one of the PL teams didn't come in last time. They want to come in next. We I just got a budget time. Make sure we >> Yeah. And also >> Council President uh Koviaak could deal
with that. >> October 16th is a Thursday. >> Is a th Oh, Thursday. >> Highlighted on the agenda. >> Okay. Okay. And then my next question is a capital budget. So, we have not had a capital budget in almost two years now.
I just wanted to know um you know we're going to have um trying to get my colleagues together with the administration for a BDA uh uh meeting update and and that's going to require we're going to need capital for you know some expenditures that we need to do to
move public works out of um out of the their current situation into one of our other sites and there's a lot going on there. So when do you anticipate presenting us with a a capital budget this year? >> So I mean we did we did 7 million this
year >> on all the road projects and grant projects that that require you know an outlay of our own cash. Um so yeah I think you know we need to discuss it so that we don't put
something up that's going to get rejected. Um but you know we'll certainly work together to come up with the the major items that we need because again and I talked about sort of living within that framework of the debt management plan. So we sort of have two
years that we didn't do capital like I said we did 7 million already this year. Um, so we we can talk about it and see when the right meeting is to introduce it. And we could do bond ordinances every meeting. Okay.
>> We have that flexibility. It doesn't have to be one big ticket item. >> Yeah. And we could do small stuff. >> Um. >> Okay. So as soon as council president comes back, you know, looking forward to the administration on picking a date
with my colleagues that we can sit down to um you know, get that you know plan going so we could >> you know we we can't um >> you know we we can't authorize money without knowing what that money is going to be. But I I know it's important. I
know, you know, mayor had stressed that at this BDA meeting. >> We're going to need a capital >> and we have toize, you know, those those capital requests. Obviously, >> you know, environmental cleanup is is is a major ticket item, but you know,
replenishing the fleet, I think, is on the top of everyone's list. So, we'll prioritize our requests and figure it out together. >> Okay. you could, you know, just let us know before the end of the year or would it go into 2020? >> We have five meetings left, I guess. Um,
you know, we might be able to get to it by the end of the year. Sure. >> Okay. Especially because I know we need to move public works sooner than later. I know that the the you know, for those Lakeside Avenue properties, it's uh red alert time, so
we need a plan. All right. Thank you, >> Council President. Uh the budget amendment does have to be read in full. >> It does. Yes. Okay. So we'll let uh council president Koviaak know that information. >> President just to add to Mr. Diniac, one of the priorities of our directors is
that we we desperately need to get vehicles. That's something that's also going to be a priority we have discussed. I did not want to be a surprise. I just want to >> No, that's okay. >> But uh vehicles is definitely particularly um for in for the emergency services and the inspectors
>> and the radio cars. >> The radio cars we we need we're behind in schedule. So we need to that's going to be a priority. >> Okay. >> So >> very good. Mayor, do you have anything to add? >> Well, two things. I wanted to say that I commend you for the work that you did on
the budget and uh and thanking John for his tireless efforts and his patience. A lot of patience. Um >> I think I lost my page >> a couple times. Couple times but uncharacteristic of you but couple
times. Um and to all the directors just for their cooperation and their patience as well. Um and about this capital budget also you keep talking about uh the brown fields. So we do have it a brown fields uh we have been awarded by
DP for uh a BDA brownfield development area on Lakeside Avenue. Uh we have been moving along with that with a steady team uh people in the administration engineer of course and um also with
uh matrix development uh for the movie production studios because we have 22 acres back there that we do need to remediate um and move public works. Uh I wanted to mention you were listing different things that have the priority. I think one of the priorities is just
yesterday when we saw that parking study if we're not going to do the entire package then we look at what the priority is in that package and and put that forward as well because I think that was urgent. We heard from the
people last night uh doing the feasibility parking study um and there were so many positives in that study that could help uh residents in their parking and our traffic. So that should be something on our list. >> Okay.
>> Thank you, mayor. And I think you know a few of us will agree with that. Um because you know we'll create revenue especially from the parking lots and um you know if we could have that broken out the the
pricing on what the uh dynamic traffic is going to present to us. I know everything feasibly can't be presented all at once but if it could what would that look like and how much would that cost? I think all the council ever asked for is great communication. let us know
ahead of time um and just give us the presentation so we could absorb it and um look at it and and to make sure the numbers work. >> Council President, a lot of those numbers are already embedded in that >> into that um study which is online. Yeah. So they're in there so the public
can see what the costs are and everything else. So So they're in there. >> All right. Thank Thank you, Mr. Smile. I appreciate that. >> Okay, Madame Clerk. We're ready to move forward. >> Yes. You do you want to do public comment now? If we're all done, then we have to close anything out, right? We're
done with the public hearing. Okay. Yes. Public comment, please. >> Okay. So, you can >> Okay. Ready? Okay. So, I'm going to ask folks if you'd like to come up if you have anything uh for public comment. You have five minutes at the podium. Uh I ask you be respectful of the time. And
uh with that being said, we're going to have Mr. Fagan come up first. And don't forget your name and address. Except for you, Mr. Fagan. We know we know where to find you. >> You know where to find me. Thank you. Uh, acting council president. Um,
welcome everyone to the township council meeting, the first meeting of fall. It's hard to believe uh it was mentioned that five meetings are left and fall is upon us. Um, and just today uh we posted on the website our leaf collection procedure for 2025. And uh this also
includes Essex County roads. And let me clarify that some um residents uh their house is on a county road and there's a different schedule from the DPW schedule uh in terms of pickup. It's the Essis County schedule. Uh this information is
uh is is on our website. Um also this week is Yam Kapor 2025. So we wish all our Jewish friends and neighbors to have a meaningful feast. And uh with that said, the 2 am fast. Um, you know, sometimes I
intentionally make a mistake just to see if uh everyone's paying attention. Thank you for the Thank you for the correction. Uh, 2:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. parking ordinances ordinances have been rescended for Yam Kapor from October 1st. Uh, from 6 p.m. on October 1st to
6:00 a.m. on October 3rd. However, all other West Orange Township and New Jersey statues remain in effect. And uh we're also going to be rescending parking ordinances for Sukkat. Did I say that correctly? Sukkot.
Um and that's from 6 p.m. on October 6 to 6 a.m. on October 16th. This information is on our website. Um of course September 15th, October 15th is National Hispanic Heritage Month. Uh
this has been mentioned and on the um uh there's a lot of Hispanic uh heritage events in West Orange. You can go to West Orange Hispanic Foundation@gmail.com. This information is posted on social media. Um the West Orange Fire Department is having their annual open
house uh October 5th. Uh you can find details at west.org. Uh I believe the um focus this year is going to be a very important topic. Of course, all topics are important, but with specific focus on lithium ion ion batteries in your
home. Uh that's an increasing problem. So I'm sure that there will be uh safety um safety many uh helpful safety features uh tested there. And also speaking of over fire department, it was announced this past week that the West Orange Fire Department was awarded a
FEMA grant uh assistance to firefighters grant program and this will be used to uh purchased uh safety equipment, help serve the uh residents of residents of West Orange. Uh West Orange shredding day. I've been mentioning this for a while. So you can get prepared your
documents details about this on our website October 5th. And uh Mr. Paglesi from the county is not here tonight, but we have they have two programs also coming up and West Orange residents should be avail uh should be uh aware of these programs because they're
important. This information is posted on our website and that's household hazardous waste and computer electronics uh Saturday, October 4th and October 18th. As I said, you should you can read these on our website and uh there's important details there that you need to
pay attention to. Um uh last Saturday um Mayor McCartney received a uh NIA purpose partnership exemplary award uh from NIA Fellowship Baptist Church. Now that church is located in the valley here uh on Valley
Road and it's kind of a forgotten place. Um but they've been in the community the church building has been in the community I believe for 90s something years and they will not this congregation but the building itself and uh they presented um uh mayor with this
award and it was pointed out by pastor platt that the mayor has a long record dating back to when she was a council woman and uh that added to the uh um uh awarding of this uh recognition and I also should point out council president
Koviaak was there as well myself and Pastor Platt also recognized us both not with awards but uh with our contributions to uh the uh mission of Neo Fellowship Baptist Church. Um October is breast cancer awareness month. Of course you see the pink ribbon
on the podium here. Um and the key to um uh breast cancer awareness is early detections uh saves lives. Uh that can't be stressed enough. And there are two programs uh coming up in October uh which is tomorrow. Uh tomorrow actually
the Pink Warriors are returning to West Orange uh town hall 3:30 uh p.m. I believe this is their second annual. They may have been here in the past but uh two that I'm aware of. And later this month Shields of Hope um Officer Mango West Orange Police Department is running
this. This is October 24th and this information can be found on our social media. Uh this weekend, West Orange High School marching band Invitational. Um there's going to be a higher noise volume, traffic, and parking congestion expected between 2 to 10 p.m. uh in the
area of the uh of the high school. Residents in that area should be aware um of the uh of of what's going on at the high school. Uh Mayor McCartney's open office hours October 2nd, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Certainly no appointment
necessary. Uh and the council uh connection has uh ne their next open office hour is Thursday, October 30th. I will mention this again at the October 16th meeting. Um also was announced this uh this past week that uh Mayor
McCartney uh to honor former president uh township planner Susan Borg uh for 24 years of service. Uh the Ridgeway Park is going to be officially named in her honor. Uh this was set out uh to the press and press picked up on this and
this is a welldeserved uh recognition for uh Susan Borg. Uh now at the beginning of the program we honored the uh uh West Orange Mustangs um and their accomplishments and I I just thought that it would be
appropriate if I added some uh brief historical perspective to that and that is that West Orange Pal was founded in 1962 and the first sport was football and so they've been serving the community for over 62 years and that's
me. I was uh on the PAL uh football team. Uh not in 1962. Yes, I know. Uh I look very mean for a quarterback. Um but yeah, I was I was uh a partic participating in football and uh baseball was added in 1965 just a few
years later and the field uh was donated by Mrs. Mrs. Freeman uh who of Llewellen Park uh whose uh property borders the field and um I also participated in West Orange Pal
and that bat was not given to me by Babe Ruth. Uh but I will say that Kate Davenport who works uh here in town hall I played with her father uh on the same team. And um also finally I want to mention that you may recall at the end
of July there was a a a big the world descended on West Orange for the David Cassidy marker celebration uh at Kate Field uh dedication I should say and uh this is uh Katie Cassidy David Cassid's daughter and she read a speech from Shan
Cassidy uh her uncle David Cassid's brother and he did say that he would uh return to West Orange and proudly walk down uh David Cassidy Way when he was in New Jersey next fall, this fall. And true to his promise, he did show up in
West Orange and uh took this picture uh and he also came into town hall. Now, the women of town hall were swarming this 1970s pop papa idol. Now, as a
courtesy, I also decided to swoon him. And uh Sean Cassidy did not get mad when I mistakenly called him Barry Manalo. Uh but no, in all seriousness, he was uh he was a real nice guy, very engaging, and we all enjoyed his uh visit here in town
hall. And uh Council President, you mentioned that there were some ribbon cutings. Uh and I do not have, I'm sorry to say, any pictures for them. Uh but perhaps we can present them at a later date. And I believe uh that is our my report for tonight. Mr. Plesi is not
here, but you can uh get uh his his information is here. You have any questions, you can reach out to him. Uh thank you for your indulgence, council president. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan. And did you sing sing do run to uh Mr. Cassidy when he visited? >> As I say, I thought he was Barry
Manalow, so I didn't know that song. >> Thank you. Would anyone else like to come speak at the podium? Homer Councilman. >> Good evening. Herb Waldman, 18 Connell Drive.
I watched the last council meeting with great interest. You voted to place an ordinance on the next agenda that would remove the West Essex Highlands exemption from the town environmental regulations. That's the way our town ordinance says
you must proceed. If a majority votes to bring an issue forward in the form of an ordinance, it goes on the agenda. That's the way representative democracy supposed to work. I thought this council might take action, but here we are more than three weeks later and it's not on
the agenda. What happened? Does the earlier vote mean nothing? Can the presiding officer disregard it? What happened was that instead of the West Essex Highlands attorney threatening you again, the town attorney did his dirty
work for him. The law department refused to prepare the proposed ordinance. The council is being misled and intimidated. Why are you still letting the legal department push you around? You are the client here. I know that a lawyer can
advise his client, but it's ultimately the client's decision on how to proceed. The town attorney has not been attending council meetings. However, local firm has been sending an associate in his place and he has been your deacto attorney. You could have directed that
firm to prepare the ordinance, but you didn't. So, I wondered why. Are you intimidated by the threat of a lawsuit? There is going to be a lawsuit over this project. The group opposing the West Essex Highlands development has already filed suit, naming the township,
has a defendant, and it's clear that whoever loses before the planning board will go to court. A lawsuit involving the town is not speculation. It is not only inevitable, it has already happened. I haven't met anyone, including members of the council, who is
happy with the development, who thinks it's okay for the developer to unilaterally change the plan that have been agreed on, or who thinks the development should be exempt from environmental regulations that are binding on every other property in town.
The developer has violated the settlement agreement. Is that okay with you? If not, what are you going to do about it? What has the legal department told you can do about it? Councilman Castelina, you were the only member present on the council who voted for the
settlement agreement and reszoning the property. At that time, you said you to protect the ridge. The town attorney told you that protecting the ridge was the number one priority. Do you still believe that? When the town's environmental compliance officer assured
the council that the town had environmental regulations to protect the property, the town attorney who was there didn't mention that the settlement you were being asked to approve would make this property exempt from those regulations. The developer is now proposing to build
on the ridge. What are you going to do about it? Are you succumbing all of you to the threat from the developer's attorney and attorney? I can understand that because as a lawyer, the threat of a lawsuit can
be intimidating, but since you can't personally be sued, I'm not sure what you were worried about. In recent years, the law department has had some notable and expensive losses in court. One resident twice successfully sued the town regarding a designation of first
Essex Green and then the library as areas in need of redevelopment. He also won against a case against the town for withholding documents under Oprah. Paul Trocttonberg won an Oprah case regarding the West Essex Highlands property in which the town had to pay his legal fees
of $70,000 in addition to whatever the town attorney was paid. What did all these cases have in common besides the fact that the town lost them? They were all about land development. Do you not see a pattern? I spoke about the West Essex Highlands
development with someone in town recently who told me, "I'm not a lawyer, but something stinks. How long will it be before you realize what's going on and demonstrate the independence and leadership to put a stop to it?" Instead of politely thanking people for bringing
these issues to your attention and giving responses to those appearing before the council that make you appear supportive and made the developer's attorney so angry that he wrote you letters the opportunity to actually do something about it or will you do it? If not,
would you please explain why? In this country, we are living through a time in which the law is being perverted and the legislative branch lacks the courage to stand up and demand that it stop. In our own small way are going, we are going through a similar situation in West
Orange. You were elected to represent us, the citizens of West Orange. The town attorney was not on the ballot. I think I speak for a lot of town to trust you. Ask you to show some commitment to the right thing. Thank you.
>> Thank you, sir. Would anyone else like to speak? One more count. Women blades for our ramen. Tammy Williams, Buckingham. Good evening. My name is Tammy Williams and I am proud to stand before you as
the founder of the West Orange Stop Suicide Advocacy Coalition or Wolsack Foundation. Our mission is simple but vital to save the lives here in West Orange through education, advocacy, and
strong community partnerships. Let me begin with why this work matters. In 2018, West Orange reported four suicides and 50 suicide attempts. Four families devastated, 50 cries for help. Each one
rippled through our schools, our neighborhoods, and our community. I knew this was something we could not ignore. Since 2019, stakeholders came to develop and formulate WOSAC, which stepped into that
gap. I am so proud to share that both suicides and attempts have declined since we began. Our advocacy, our programs, and our partnerships are not just raising awareness. They are saving lives. How do we do it? We build
partnerships. With Cooperman Barnabas Medical Center, we provide free screenings and health services and bring professional workshops to those on the front lines. With the Mental Health Association of Essex and Morris, we bring professional workshops to those on
the front lines. With programs for parents, we provide Christmas giveaways, support local resources, and provide workshops for families in need. With the West Orange Arts Council and Luna Stage, we use art, theater, and film to spark
conversations about mental health. With the Grassroots Community Foundation, we reach our schools through Green Ribbon Week and mental health wellness strategies for our youth. And with the West Orange Police Department, we began this work and through advocacy and
awareness efforts. In 2020, West Orange received a pilot ridealong program where licensed clinicians respond with officers to mental health crisis calls. That program started right here in West Orange and it has now become the model
program adopted across the state of New Jersey to police mental health and wellness. Education and training are the heart of WSAC. In 2019, we provided free training for our board of education, police, and fire department staff. Since
then, we've continued hosting workshops for professionals and community members, and our awareness campaigns in schools and public forums make sure that residents know that they are not alone and that help is always available. We
also believe in creating spaces for community connection. Every year, we host a WSAC 5K walk run, a time to honor lives lost, support survivors, and raise awareness. We launched the health and wellness summit which gave free eye
exams and glasses to over 100 students in need. We partnered with the Junth Film Festival highlighting the mental health struggles in communities of color. And through our zero suicide campaign, we are breaking stigma, sharing resources, and changing our how
our community talks about suicide. From September 2024 to today, our township has lowered the suicide incidents even further. One life is one life too many. But I am
very, very pleased to report that we have only had two suicides since September of 2024 to today. These numbers tell a powerful story. The need is great, but prevention and
awareness works. Losing just one life is one life too many. But together we are reducing risk, connecting people to help, and saving lives. But this is more than numbers or programs. Suicide does
not end pain. It transfers pain to families, to friends, to our whole community. By investing in prevention, we not only save lives, but we reduce emergency costs, support families, and build a healthier, more resilient West
Orange. WSOC is proof that when a community comes together, change happens. I hope each of you are aware that on Friday, October 3rd, we will be hosting our sixth run for WAC. Please
join us. Ceremonies begin at 400 PM. It is open to everyone. You can run, walk, volunteer, or just show up to support. Together, we can erase the stigma and end suicide. Thank you.
>> Thank you so much for all your efforts. Would anyone else like to speak? >> Okay. And Oh, he's sorry about that, Miss Ben. I forgot. We had a
>> uh Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. Um so I think I'd like to focus first on uh 2938-25. Um this it says an ordinance amending chapter 3 section 17.1 of the revised
general ordinances of the township of West Orange. How is anybody supposed to know what that is about? I mean, I happen to look it up um sitting over there and it's um I'm sure not coincidence that um it
relates to who can draft an ordinance and whether or not an attorney township attorney should have access to drafting or only a township attorney can draft an ordinance. after listening to um uh the prior speaker
uh discussing the fact that there was supposed to be or there was expected to be an ordinance on the agenda tonight. So um first uh my comment would be that any person who picks up the agenda should be able to understand um what each ordinance is about. You can see the
other two ordinance on first reading at at least have a brief descriptor. So hopefully that could be corrected. A better practice would be making available the proposed ordinances. Um I I recognize, you know, there's a
balance between printing and and um and not printing too many, but you could at least have a a couple up on the on the table for review. Um, I believe it was August 22nd when uh,
Mayor McCartney um, announced herself to be the interim business administrator. Uh, I think we are more than halfway through her 60-day interim term. I don't know if a posting has been made for a permanent business administrator and I
don't know how long this township has been um working in this cobbled together scenario of interim business administrator, but I'd like to remind this council that December 1st you will have to or you will not have a police
chief. Um, if you're sticking to a 60-day term, uh, Mayor McCartney can no longer be the interim business administrator as of, I don't know, October 21st. I think that's right. I don't know, my math may be off. 60 days.
Um, and we really should do away with the practice of interim business administrator and really focus on having somebody permanent, somebody um, qualified and somebody who's been vetted through a fair and competitive practice
instead of handing it off to friends, cronies um, and um, questionably qualified individuals. Um, I would like to point out that when the mayor appointed herself as the business administrator, I believe she did not
step down from being the director of a preschool in town. She happens to be the director of a preschool in town and the teacher at that preschool of um um the township uh schools paid preschool program. I
don't know how you do both. I happen to be down here at town hall when U. Mayor McCartney, interim business administrator McCartney, director of First Mountain Preschool McCartney, and uh preschool teacher McCartney was here.
If she's here, she's not there. The conflicts of interest in being a mayor, a business administrator, a preschool director, and a teacher. The conflicts of interest can't be in two places at once. It's really interesting.
I was interviewing a candidate for the vacant council position and that candidate said, "You can't do that." >> Not realizing that you were already doing it. >> Miss Bennett, could you >> Oh, sorry. Yeah. I I ap You're right. I
should be addressing you. I apologize. It's when the mayor scoffed, I really wasn't looking at anybody, but once the mayor scoffed and at my comments, I decided to uh acknowledge that. I understood. Understood. Um the the uh the other thing I'd like to point out is
if the police chief is out on terminal leave, turn in his vehicle. Stop taking township gas, please. I mean, really, enough is enough. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else like to speak?
Okay, with that being said, I'm going to close public comment. Okay. So, I am going to go to ask our attorney. Were there any conflicts mentioned this evening that
you heard from any of our speakers in regards to >> conflict? >> Yeah. Well, the there was a with the mayor with her position as the business administrator. >> No, not that I would app on now. I didn't hear anything that needs to be addressed. >> Okay.
>> Okay. I'm going to uh ask administration if they have any comments first before I turn it over to my colleagues. >> No. No. Okay. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Okay. Um good evening everyone. Thank you all for coming out and thank you to
the How many people are on on with us? Oh, awesome. Okay. All right. So, we're like over in attendance this this week. Um Mr. Waldman, your speech was absolutely brilliant. Um and I agree
with everything you just said. I have been working, I guess, for weeks to try and get the ordinance that was proposed to eliminate the uh to reverse the envir complete environmental exemptions from the West
Essex Highlands on this agenda. I have presented it to the council president who was not here. I have um g I have discussed it under new matters. The process should have been followed. It should have been gone. It should have it
should have been taken from new matters by the uh township clerk straight to um put it put it in any sort of legal form that is necessary even though it was already done and get it on our agenda. Why it's not here is just complete
obstructionism. I don't know why this is happening. I am I don't know baffled by the amount of obstructionism that is going on here.
When a council person presents an ordinance, it goes through new reading. It should be presented at first at first reading at the next time. And I'm not sure why that is being blocked. And I'd really like that that process to stop.
We are here to legislate. We are here to move policy. You guys might not agree with everything that we're doing, but that is what we're here. We're here to move policy along. I would like to see this on the next agenda. We've already discussed it in new business several
times. I want to see it on the agenda. I don't think that we should be intimidated by lawsuits. Obviously, they're coming. We're dealing with a very ligious um developer um who will stop at nothing. But we have to stand up as as
council people and do what's right to protect our larger community. So I'm just going to ask once again that this be put onto the agenda for first reading for the next council meeting. >> Comments here. Thank you.
Okay. >> Um some of the issues that uh Miss Bennett addressed in terms of multiple jobs going out to to the same person and how these jobs are being adequately
um done is also baffling. Frankly, I don't know how um you have several full-time positions and many people on our staff or some of them have multiple full-time positions and that is not a practice that is allowed in our in our
handbook and policy is not being stopped. Uh policy is not being enforced to stop these these um practices. Um, and yeah, I think that there are a number of things, a number of ways that we could save money so that we could
move towards buying the big investment vehicles that we need. Um, all of the personal vehicles that have been called out so many times need to come back. We should not be handing out personal vehicles, full-time gas, full-time easy pass, full-time
insurance to members of our staff. They need to drive here, use a municipal car when they are here, leave it here, and go home in their own car. Why our police chief is still using a um municipal car when he has been out sick since May 15th, except for a little interlude when
he went to a conference in um Atlantic City. I don't know why that car isn't here and I don't know why you, Madame Mayor, do not call for that car to be back here. He is on sick leave. The car should be back here. Um, Miss Williams,
the the um cause that you champion is extraordinarily important. However, you did fail to mention that you take a salary from the charity that you are promoting and that you have been successful with. And you also failed to
mention that instead of renting the facility at Rock Spring, which is what we would want our our residents to do to rent the facility, you are offering a contribution. And is that contribution coming from your 60,000
developerbacked war chest that you had from your prior campaign? And you're also fundraising again for this campaign. So, I'd really like you to address how you failed to mention those those two issues. Um, the
developers who are backing your campaign are the same developers >> just sorry >> who are seeking to pave over our town. So, I think that that was that was an omission. Um, however, I I totally support your your work and your cause, but I think that those things should
have been said. Um, finally, I'm really happy to hear that Susan Borg was honored with the park named after her. Um, she truly deserves this recognition, and we should honor her legacy. But the most meaningful tribute to her legacy
would be hiring a full-time high-level in-house planner to help guide us out of our affordable houses crisis. That's the kind of action that Miss Borg would have championed. Good >> chair. Uh >> I'd like to make a comment in rel in
response to what councilwoman Ruden mentioned. There were several um statements that you made that I I want to take issue with um and and clarify. So um there was a comment from the public regarding the uh proposed ordinance which would seek to impact the
West Essex Highlands pending application. And um I want to point out that your existing town attorney, which is Mr. Tran, wrote a legal opinion that was provided to all the council members on September 22nd that reiterated that
the proposed ordinance could specifically um create a problem with a settlement agreement that was previously executed uh by this body, not the individuals here, but the the council regarding the project. Um and that opinion was issued on September 22nd and
provided to the council. Um we my office received that and we had a discussion uh you myself and council the acting council president about the issue. Um, and I advise that we would specifically look into the um, ordinance and the request that was made regarding uh,
amending the um, ordinance concerning steep slopes to determine what that impact would be on the settlement agreement. I take issue with many of the things you said because litigation is a serious issue. It's not something to
take lightly and say we welcome litigation or we encourage what might come and because there's a significant cost and peril not only in dollars but potentially with respect to um the impact on the people of his town. So I
don't think it's something to take lightly um with respect to litigation. The process around passing ordinances is very critical and important and a serious endeavor and it's not something
to take lightly that council folks who um generate ordinances should have those ordinances read verbatim without changes or review by legal counsel or the administration who you hired and are
experts in the field to pass those ordinances without the appropriate review and that was something we discussed and I think it's important to reiterate in the public that it is unheard of in the practice of representing public entities and how
well-run municipalities are run that ordinances are generated by council members and then could be read and on first reading and second reading without any input approval changes corrections by your legal counsel or your
professionals that are here. That is absolutely not the best practice and I recommend against that. I welcome ordinance ideas. We want to change this, we want to change that. It should go to legal for review and get the administration's
input. Then that comes back, but it may not be the ordinance that you want. It may be a response that, hey, this is a terrible idea. This is going to cost us millions. we don't have the capacity to do to to approve this or we don't have the capacity to affffectuate it. This
could cause litigation. This could cause numerous issues for us. So, I think it's imperative that this body listen to what I'm saying because you have to have a process for order. That doesn't mean that you won't get to where you want to
be, but you must respect the process that I have an idea. We'd like to impact this West Essex Highlands project in this way. Great. Here's the issues. Here's what I want to accomplish. Your legal counsel along with your
administration will review and provide a draft of something if it's appropriate. It may not be at the next meeting. It may be at a subsequent meeting when that work is done. But to say that you you pass it from this this this body and it goes on the next meeting automatically,
while you may have the power to do that, I absolutely would recommend against that because you could be putting the town at risk by passing an ordinance without the benefit of the professionals that you've hired weighing in on that. So, I just want to give that feedback. It's a three-step process in every
municipality or public body that passes ordinances, bylaws, or policies. the the idea comes up, the majority agrees we want to do it or not. Then it's referred to the professionals to review and uh provide back either the ordinance or the
policy. It's discussed at first reading if it gets through that process and then it goes to second reading. That may not be in three meetings, but that's the process and it can take three steps. And I wanted to make sure I was clear about that and that's something that we talked about and I want to reiterate. Now, back
to the West Essex Highlands application. There is a settlement agreement that is a public document. Once a settlement is agre approved by a public body, it becomes a public document. That settlement agreement specifically states that with respect to steep slopes
to the extent that any portion of the proposed development as contemplating this agreement would be restricted or prohibited by the township's steep slope and natural features ordinance, including adequate continuous area ordinance. The steep slope ordinance
shall not apply to the proposed development which shall be reflected in the zoning amendment. This body agreed to that. If you want to pass an ordinance that impacts this settlement agreement, you should have the benefit of legal counsel's advice as to what impact that might have in that
litigation and the town before you go ahead and pass an ordinance. So I while I respect the views of West Orange residents and and individuals who come to the public and speak on behalf of whatever is important to them, they are speaking based on their interests and it's important to have your
professionals weigh in. So I wanted to make clear that ordinances need to follow this process. And with respect to this steep slope ordinance, there's further review to be done which we will provide to you as I discussed. But at this point, it would not be appropriate to pass any ordinance that could impact
that settlement agreement, the pending application, or the town as a whole. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. River. And just so uh just for clarification, uh Mr. Rivera is our uh conf uh conflict counsel, I guess we could call you, or you want to
>> Yes, I'm here as special conflict counsel. As uh Mr. Tran's office has indicated, they have a conflict and cannot serve in the role to come to the meetings. Uh so that's why we're here and if there's an issue where there is a conflict we will review it and provide advice to this body.
>> And Mr. W uh woman just to answer your question to me um you know I I feel this important and I want to make sure with the decisions that we are making um and
my uh responsibility to this township. Um, last this past Friday afternoon, myself and Councilman Councilwoman Ruden sat on a call uh with with our council um and to vet a few things. So, right
now I'm not ready to make a comment about it or decision. Um, God bless my colleague. she has a a a more uh proactive um but I had the benefit of years sitting in with Shirley Bishop and the professionals back then when we I
still feel forced that we had to sign that that uh resolution to satisfy the court order or the ordinance rather. And um you know we're still I'm still working on it and and that's all I'm going to answer for this evening. But I know it's
frustrating. The hardest part of this job, and I've learned that in 20 years, 10 years on the school board, and 10 years here, the hardest part of this job is to want to give that answer to you. And my colleagues in year one, and she'll she'll she'll she'll see that, you know, that is the toughest part of
this job because you want to move forward on things and you can't yet. And uh I understand that a little bit more, but hopefully we will be able to uh in the near future. With that being said, I'm gonna uh turn this over to uh Councilwoman Scarpa. Do you have any
>> any comments? >> Yeah. Um Mr. Walman, thank you so much for coming out and we I can't tell you how much I appreciate uh all of your expertise. I know you are a lawyer as
well. And what's frustrating for me is that, you know, lawyers often see things very differently um from different points of view. And being a member of the planning board, I have an obligation
to seek counsel from our township, which I have. And often I've gotten conflicting information. So, it's incredibly difficult position for me to be in because I don't want to have
conflict of interest and I don't want to jeopardize um any work that I do on the planning board. But I welcome your opinions and your guidance in this area and I look
forward to listening to all of the different points of view. I think that you know unfortunately sometimes the legal council that we've had in the past has not been
very responsive to the council. So there is some element of ambigu ambiguous information information being very ambiguous to us >> and um it is incredibly difficult to
sift through it all. So, um, please continue to give us your opinion and and the benefit of your expertise, but I I feel like because I'm on the planning board, I I don't want to say too much. Um, Michaela Bennett, thank you so much
for coming out and highlighting a lot of the issues uh relating to conflicts of interest. I do um agree with you on a lot of them. I try to hold myself to the highest
ethical standards and I I have done that and I've led by example when I've run for council. I took no money from anyone, not even my friends at R Green West Orange. And I found that it I was
very glad I did when I had to make that really difficult decision about the support of of moving towards the elect from the gas powered blowers because I was in a position to be able to make a decision that was best for each and
every resident of this town. not only the people who supported me, but the people who didn't support me, who didn't vote for me, and the people who don't vote at all. And that was a real rude awakening from me, for me. And I just
wish that we were able to move forward in campaigning and governing without outside influences and conflicts of interest. So to all of our council people who are aspiring,
I hope that you will listen to to my words because they're very sincere and I've learned a lot and I feel very strongly about um not only lobbyists in our government but the conflicts of interest that we've seen for decades during township. So thank you very much
for continuing to bring it to our attention. Um, and I could not agree with my colleague, Councilwoman Ruden, more by saying how thrilled I am. I've heard so much about
Susan Borg over the years and uh I think it's wonderful that we're honoring her, but I would like to ask the mayor to really honor her and give us an accomplished full-time planner who could guide us in the right direction and look
very strategically at our township as a whole because I think that's what we haven't done for a long time and I think it's part of the reason why we're in that this mess. I am a business person. I run a business and I've always taken a
very strategic and holistic approach to every decision that I've made and this is something that our township needs to do moving forward. So, with that, I'll turn it back to you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman.
>> Council President, I'm sorry if I may just interrupt briefly. Uh, I neglected to mention that the um dedication ceremony for Susan Borg is on Sunday, October 19th at 1:00 at Widway Park. And this information will be posted on our social media. Once again, that's Sunday,
October 19th at 1 1:00 p.m. And I pardon the interruption, but I thought that was not at all. Thank Thank you, Mr. Fagan. So I guess you know with the comments this evening listen we're we're if I could say anything about this past year we're in a transitional phase here in
the township um you know all new processes um we're moving forward with if the case ever gets settled with um with the administration with a new legal staff um if that ever gets finalized.
Uh so there's there's a lot on the horizon. With that being said, there's been some old past practices. Uh part of what came out of the budget advisory uh committees
was a recommendation to have a forensic audit, which we agreed to. And um and I think even the you know the CFO could appreciate just helping find things that you just getting us updated and and as
we move forward uh we'll see what comes from that um audit. But you know some past practices with vehicles and gas and whatnot. Some of these items are contractual. So you're not going to change them, but we will
find out what isn't contractual, what's been past practice. So if anyone's learns anything, you know, and our attorneys here, a lot of times past practice is is is hard. >> It's right. >> Doesn't mean it's right, but uh it's
it's been done. And and we're going to vet that out. And I do appreciate my colleagues, the time she puts in. She's like a little bulldog, I call her. and uh cuz I I I just don't have that kind of time and God bless her. But um we'll
get there and we're going to get there working together with the administration and we're going to move forward to a better year uh that that's coming cuz we have to we have a lot of problems with this affordable housing.
It is going to be detrimental to our community. uh and it's been very frustrating for me personally after all these years uh with legal advice and that's been a disappointment for me this year and so I
appreciate the time Mr. Rivera gave to us on Friday um sorting all of this out and um you know I'm an optimist. I think we're going to be fine. We just have to uh work our way
there. Uh but with that being said and talking about planners and you know and this is where we have to get a little more organized tonight and it's my fault because I'm sitting here as council president. Uh we were promised on tonight's meeting a salary ordinance uh
Mr. Soraldo for September 30th. We were promised that salary ordinance that should have been on for first reading for the full-time planner the code. And I I neglected to to remind you of it because getting this duty, it just slipped my my
mind with all the other things I had to attend to for this meeting. >> So the the question was, well, we're going to it wasn't promised. What was said was we can promise to put it on if other things were done. So we're not we didn't put it on because we're not ready to move forward with that,
>> you know. So um here the mayor stated about it last time. So, I've spoken to the CFO. We could easily get that done and ready. It's just not ready to be presented. We're not We have challenges as you said and we could discuss
offline. Um I don't know if you want to discuss that here. It's a personnel matter and so we should be realizing that that we can take care of that at another point in time. >> Chair, I recommend if it's a personnel matter be discussed in close session. >> Yes.
Can we move to close session to discuss it this evening? >> Sure. >> I'd like to make a motion to >> Second. >> So, you have a motion in a second. >> Yeah. >> Discussion. >> Oh, sorry. >> Yeah, we have a council here. He's
advising us. >> Made a motion. >> I did. >> Sweetness deserved. >> I sec. I second it. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. and we'll move to that in after I finish my comment. >> Um, and so we'll we'll Thank you. I appreciate that with the attorney
because there's some things that we have to uh whittle through. Um >> Huh. >> I didn't take >> Go ahead. Go ahead. Council uh Madam Cler. >> Councilwoman uh Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Council President Castelino. >> Yes. >> The motion carries.
>> Okay. and we'll move into uh into executive session. >> We should move now. Okay. All right. Then we'll move now then. >> I'll put them a length of time. We're going to be in close. How long do you anticipate? >> 20 minutes.
>> 9:30ish. >> Okay. >> Mr. Fagan, if you could do the honors to the public, I appreciate it. uh conferences. >> Okay, you want me to sign off on these things?
>> Yes. >> Members of the Zoom audience, uh we are the council is going to executive session. uh your um >> your computer will be on me and I will give you updates uh as they are
warranted. Thank you for your patience. Thank you once again for your patience to those West Orange residents in the Zoom audience. Uh, council has returned from executive session and are ready to resume the meeting. Uh, madame council
president. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan, and I appreciate the public for your patience this evening, especially those that are still in council chambers. Thank you for staying and hanging out with us. Um, but we had some important uh work we needed to get done and I I appreciate the
administration and our uh attorney for uh being uh able to provide that impromptu session. It was very beneficial. So, thank you. Um, with that being said, we will uh move forward with this evening's agenda. Madame Clerk. >> Okay. Time to review the consent agenda.
Approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting of September 8th, 2025. >> Consent. consent. >> Report of township officers, none. Reading of petitions and communications and bids. Uh contract for snow removal services from sidewalks, paths,
crosswalk, and bus shelters, and stops within the township for 2025 26 >> billist. Um are there any questions on the bills? >> Okay. Do any of my colleagues have first of all, does any of my colleagues want anything pulled
>> from the bill? the bill list. >> The bill list. Yes. On the >> Oh, I see what you're I don't want anything pulled. I just want to discuss. >> So, you have comments? >> Just comments. >> Go for it. Thank you. >> Okay. So, um I just want to alert the public if they're not already aware that uh Richard Richard Tran is still working
for this town and um this year this month he earned 15,812.31 and uh his year to date is over 145,000 which is up 17% from last year at this time. So, just for the record, um um he
still does not have an official contract with our town, but he's he's still taking a lot of money. >> Um as a result, >> Councilwoman, just continue with your >> Okay. Um as as a result, also on the bill, we are paying 21 um $21,000 this
month for extra counsel, which is here tonight. Um which we're grateful for. However, um we are being um obliged to pay for extra counsel because um Mr. Tran, who who is contractually obligated
to be here and to serve as council, is conflicted out. So, that is costing the town town uh taxpayers an additional 21K. Um, I also did want to mention that one of the bills that I that I um pulled
was for um $2,400 for labor for um for painting Mr. Smeldo's office. Uh last month I I pulled a bill for $1,400 for a new desk. Now, I realize that as as an administrator, you have the right to
decorate, you have a right to, you know, uh, paint, but, you know, people are hurting. Um, the residents are h are are tightening their belts, and, you know, it's the taxpayers's money. I I feel like,
you know, we we really um need some accountability on on these type of expenses. And um you know it's it's wasteful at worst and if nothing else it's kind of tonedeaf because we're
sitting here at 16 meetings pulling every every line by line by line and then and then we see a lot of other expenses. So I want >> you have any other you're not pulling it though. >> I'm not pulling it. I want to I want to ask Mr. Moraldo about the the impression that this is tonedeaf to be spending
money um at a time when when our residents are are truly suffering and we are guardians of the public trust and and not beneficiaries. So I'd also like to question why um a contractor was hired for over
$2,000 to paint a single office, why that was not done by DPW. And finally, the other and I'll I'll wait on that. And the other thing that I wanted to comment on is again, we got a over $1,300 one-month bill for um cleaning
our our dog park. And again, I just want to bring this out. The dog park was given to us from a a developer. Um it's supposed to be a free dog park. We have now spent almost $5,000 this year just maintaining this dog park, which has barely any trees and barely any leaves.
and we have three men working there um an hour each week and I I spoke with Mr. Diniac about this about adjusting times. So if it's possible that that you can give feedback on that as well whether we can bring it down to like even just a monthly service call instead of a weekly
service call. >> Okay, that's all your comments. >> That's it. Thank you. >> Okay, administration who would like to respond. >> I'll go. >> Go ahead, Mr. >> Yes. So, I will talk with Director Reynolds and pass that request along if if this can be reduced in terms of the
the manpower needed to to service the dog park. Um, you know, and I'll go on his recommendation. So, we will ask. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, thank thank you. >> He wasn't in today, so I I couldn't ask.
>> Okay. And then my um ju you know uh the only thing I'm going to comment are are two things. One is you know administration's entitle you know the I've been in that office pictures were taken down. I mean there was holes all
over the place in the walls. So it it desperately needed to be painted. though. But but to the point, does DPW do they provide do you have anyone that could do the painting instead of going to a private contractor or or what's because I know in my old schoolboard
days, buildings and grounds crew would provide those services. You don't have any of those like >> scheduling of through the is through the director of of of uh DPW and he's the one who made the the arrangements. Yes.
So how why he did it why why he went contracted in lie of his staff I don't know they may have been assigned to other other assignments I don't know I can't answer that one >> okay okay but administration is entitled
to to to make those calls um okay thank you one more com thing I'm just I'm was just surprised at a $2,000 bill to do one office seems it seems very high and Um, you know, I was just surprised that
we're not using our own staff to to do that when when we are really trying to re in costs. The other thing I did want to commend um um Mr. um Maurice Mauricio Maurice >> Maurice Garcia >> Garcia
>> M uh Mr. Garcia um the the AT&T cell phone bill which I had been complaining about since I got on council is really nicely being adjusted. It used to be almost $10,000. We're around 6,000. I see a lot of phones have been collected.
So, um, thank you to the the staff that that looked that looked that over and u reign that in. >> Okay. Uh, one one other thing I did also notice that on the bill list the arts council I did not see that we are
paying. Am I correct in in in saying that we did not pay for the arts council building on Valley Street this this month or we did? >> No, we're we're not paying rent anymore. >> Okay. So, we are not paying rent. However, we are paying utilities and
security and that has been built out going forward. So I would like to request that those fees be recouped from the arts council who should be responsible for those answer that I spoke to the purchasing agent the other
day um because of the notice the way that there's certain companies utilities and whatever they may be um their cancellation policy different than a than a a lease. So we have made notice to them it's just a matter >> there's a month behind. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's so it's a matter of when it
gets canled. The notices have been made to the those companies. >> Okay. And and we could we could touch on a little bit if there's we're not too late in pending matters about the arts council because it's not that we were weren't supportive of the arts council, but we get a later discussion. But right now for the bills list. Are you done
councilwoman? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Councilwoman Scarpa, any comments? >> Okay. >> All right. So then I'd like a consent for the bill list. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Okay. Great. Uh resolutions. Are there any resolutions? Well, there is going to be a resolution that's going to be
pulled this evening. Um I'm going to pull 21625. Uh mainly because um we need to have a meeting uh with with the uh affordable
housing planner and the only reason we didn't get to meet because she's away. So, um, we just ask that we, uh, make we're going to make a motion for a special meeting so we could meet sometime next week. Uh, we'll get our
schedules to be determined tomorrow or hopefully by Friday or no, no, we we want to get it, uh, noticed. >> What do we need? 48 hours. Correct. >> Due by Friday, I can do it. >> Okay. Do by Friday. Okay, good. because then we'll have council president input as well on his dates that he's available
and I'll I'll reach out to him uh tomorrow. Um but this we want to wrap that up. So um but we just want to make sure that everyone has their opportunity to ask the questions uh that they have and for that reason alone uh we will
pull it. Uh, are there any other resolutions that the council wish to pull this evening or how first polling only? If you have a question, we'll we'll address that in a minute. But I want to know if anything else is going to be approved.
I mean pulled. >> No, I'm not pulling anything. >> Okay. Counciloman Scorpa, you good? Okay. Now, questions. Does anyone have any questions on items 209 through 215? >> Everyone, because I saw a lot of questions going around. Appreciate the
administration. We're answering uh the past two days. Everybody good with their answers. >> Uh yes. I I feel that all of the answers um were satisfactory. >> Thank you, Council. Council Scarper, you're good. >> Good with everything. >> Beautiful. Can I um have a motion to
approve the consent agenda? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castle, I'm sorry, Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Council President Castelino. >> Yes. >> Uh the motion carries.
>> Okay. >> Okay. So, resolution 216-25, resolution awarding. >> We pulled it not to to to not we're not going to take action on it this evening. We're pulling it. So we >> I thought you were going to tail it.
>> Oh, table. I'm sorry. Table. I thought we did that. >> All right. That's why I wanted to read the title. >> Resolution award awarding higher rule and associates of professional services contract for affordable housing planner. Is there a motion to table? >> I make a motion to table. Second.
>> My apologies. >> That's okay. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Council President >> um Castelino. >> Yes. Uh, the motion carries. >> Okay, great. Ordinance on first reading.
We have 2938-25, an ordinance amending chapter 3, section 171 of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange. And to public comments uh point uh there should be should be a little bit more detail on that but um 2938 my council colleague uh
Ruden has sent us um some edits for it which uh I went over with her. Um I want to first check with and I think we we have to amend it further when I had a conversation with madame clerk. So
I want to first uh check with our our uh legal representative if this evening are you okay with these? >> Absolutely not. So this ordinance um which seeks to amend chapter 3-17.1
um is problematic for several reasons. one, the introduction of it at the council meeting by a council member violates section 3-17.1 of the ordinance that so you're violating your own ordinance by putting this forth which says ordinances and
resolutions shall be prepared for the consideration of township council by the township attorney or the legal assistant upon motion of the council and request of the mayor. So, I'm concerned that by passing this tonight with the changes that are here on its face would violate
your existing ordinance, therefore making it not enforceable. So, I recommend against that for that reason. The substance of it is also concerning in that you're seeking to change language which would um require that it be submitted to the town clerk or the
council and then immediately forwarded to the BA, town attorney, and the head of the affected department. um which is fine on its face, but it should be reviewed as per the ordinance that's in that's law now. And then you're seeking to give those officials only five
business days to review the proposed ordinance and provide comments back for the reasons I stated during the earlier comment period. Each ordinance is particular. It may not be sufficient a sufficient amount of time to review an ordinance and provide a response within
five days. A simple ordinance around a parking permit may be a more complex ordinance like the steep slope slope ordinance may require much more time than that. There's no caveat within this that says, you know, the professionals that are reviewing it can seek
additional time and extension. they would simply be constrained to the 5-day period, which would lead to no response and then this council passing ordinances without the benefit of the professionals providing legal advice, professional advice um prior to your adoption. I
absolutely recommend against this. If these are concerns of yours, it should be sent back for legal counsel to review and incorporate in the draft that's on the agenda tonight. So my advice if you if this is something that's important, you should pull the ordinance that's on the agenda for tonight, send these
comments back for council to review and then at the next meeting get a response to this and have further discussion. >> So So question for you, council. Um and I'll turn over to my colleague who who um has some of the edits if she has any questions. So my my concern is our our
past practice of what we've been doing is when we get a we do have an ordinance on first reading, we've been making edits on first reading and then if they're substantial, then it does go back to first reading again. If they're
not substantial edits, then we we're passing it on first reading. >> Okay. So you have an ordinance that's in the agenda now. >> Yeah. that had that went to legal and in your agenda it says the attorney that reviewed it Jingaro and it indicates
that that was reviewed. This looks to amend that with a substantive change. This isn't just correcting a period or grammar that would not be substantive. This is a substantive change >> um which also impacts the first read. So
this could be introduced as it is but it would be first read. My concern is that it's going to be it's it's it's not following your process. So, you're just deviating from what's in your ordinance and I'm concerned about the substance which you need feedback on. You you
could get that prior to second read, but then at that point it's it's you really can't make any more changes and you have to start the whole process over again. So, I I'm just giving you my advice on this getting this the day of is is is that your you make substantive changes. I I haven't been here. I absolutely
would recommend against that. Um >> No, no, non-substant This is substant. Okay. Go ahead, Councilwoman. Ju just for clarification, we did not initiate this ordinance or suggest it. This came from the legal department. We got it as a fed to come
plea this week and and had to review it. So this is our ability to put in changes that that we feel if this is going forward which we did not request then make it make it a process that is understandable. The changes that I
suggested were to facilitate the process because what's happening is I mean we already have in our ordinance that or that that that department heads are supposed to review ordinances and that the legal department are supposed to review ordinances but there hasn't
really been a process. So sometimes we're leaving here and um the the um clerk it it's not clear that you know that the clerk is going to follow through to send this to the department says and all this did was basically
change instead of it going to the business administrator since the clerk works for the town council that the that these ordinances go are are distributed through the clerk and then the clerk distributes it and then collects it and sends it back. That's really I mean I
know you're saying that this is substantive, but it's really just a way of distributing the ordinances so that we get back information. As far as putting on a a time constraint, um I personally felt that a time constraint
is necessary. Now, if if if we're talking about a steep slope ordinance and that's not possible to do in 5 days, obviously the the response is this takes us more time and that's the response within 5 days. But at least there is a response and we're not just being ignored >> through the chair.
>> So yes, so absolutely the words matter that that are here and it says each of these officials shall review the proposed ordinance and submit written comments to the township clerk within five business days of receiving it. It does not provide any leeway there. It
doesn't say may review and it doesn't say if they need more time they can put that request in writing, etc., etc. So to me there's a lot a lot of work that needs to be done in order to um achieve what you just said is your intent here because that's not reflected on what
this says here. This says shall review in 5 days. So if this were to go through and there were it's a complex issue to deal with and they didn't get it done within the 5 days. You you could point out you're violating the ordinance. We're moving
forward. It now gets distributed because that would follow what it says here. So, I'm just pointing out that I think there's more work that needs to be done here. And I just want to point back on the this proposed change came from the council council president Koviaak asked for that amendment. That's why this is
back on your agenda. >> So, we So, council, if I may, um, so what had occurred at the last meeting is we had a conversation. I asked Madame Clerk to play it back because just as we
do when it gets late at night, we all start talking and um you know the the last impression isn't always you know uh documented the way we intended to be. So, with that being said, council,
um, should we just give the amendment, uh, go over this right now and then we're able to give it back to legal and then bounce it back on first reading? I mean, would that be the quickest and appropriate way to do this? >> Yeah, I think you should. This is what
we want. I I think I have a basis of this and this should be reviewed and brought back in a draft for you to review prior to the next meeting. If it's not acceptable, you say it's not acceptable, you want to change it, but you should get the the guidance from council as to how to approach it. I mean, the problems that I'm I'm
identifying are objective and these are substantive changes, and I think >> any other reading of it would be unreasonable. So, I I absolutely would recommend this one and the one concerning fire pits should both be sent
back to be reviewed because they both have substantive changes that need to be addressed. This one much more significant than the other one, but it is a significant change to add in language that's that's not there that you know is not just punctuation or something like that.
>> Okay. Thank you. So, Madame Clerk, I'm going to ask her for um her input right now because um the directive here isn't clear. she would like to add um to this because I explained to her how we would like her
when there is an ordinance that we have to uh to forward it to her and then to have her forward it to the directive parties because technically that's how we you know handle all other uh business matters through the
administration through Madame Clerk. So we just want to keep it consistent. So with that being said, madame clerk, um where do you want us to introduce? >> Okay. So um so right now our ordinance
says that the ordinances and resolutions are prepared by the town attorney. From my understanding of reading this, it says that that basically the council or a council
member can write the legislation. The way I'm reading this, prior to introduction, each proposed ordinance requiring or permitting administrative action shall be submitted to the town clerk by the council or council member. The clerk shall immediately forward the proposed
ordinance to the BA, town attorney, and the head of the affected department. I'm not understanding how the town council, any member of the town council, unless they are an attorney themselves, can write legislation.
Um, that that would be my first question. I I don't know who wrote this. >> So, let me ask and I'm sorry to interrupt you. >> That's okay. So I'm assuming the intent from us was when the council
a council member writes the legislation and submits it to the town attorney. So I believe this is the process that we're looking to uh remediate. So we want to make sure that when one of uh when it
comes from the council directly that there's a process and it's directed. So the process would be to step one is we prepare an ordinance that want we want to send to legal. It will go through you to submit
to legal and the business administration and the effectiveness department heads. So, my original understanding of what the council was aiming to do was to um be able to put legislation on an
agenda without having to first, you know, vote on it at one meeting and then put it on for the next meeting. So, I um I I don't understand how a council
person can write legislation without having expertise. specifically like the fire pit one too. There's in things in here that may have, you know, state statutes and, you know, all kinds of things, not just
>> Well, that fire pit one was done that way, which which the issue at hand was >> came from emailed to administration and worked with administration and it it came from legal. So, the only thing
tonight to council's point is there's a couple there's some edits from um from the council. >> Okay. Well, I don't want to start talking about >> Let's talk about Leah. Let's stay in this one. I just want to >> address this quickly and move on,
>> right? But I I just don't understand why the council can't say implement some type of ordinance where you say we want the legal department to write this legislation for this particular topic, you know, for whatever the next meeting
or the meeting after that and then have legal do it because it just seems to me there's extra steps in here that aren't necessary that you're, you know, legal could distribute it to me and then I can distribute it to the council. members and to the department heads
>> and through the chair. One of the the ways that this is done in in other municipalities and I know there's not a committee format here, but there's a committee meeting where um council members are present and there's a draft of the ordinance that's created by legal and then someone says, "Hey, why don't
we add in that, you know, I'm not picking on this one, fire pits must be registered annually." And there's a conversation in committee about whether we can do that and whether there's further work that needs to be done. Hey, we need to look at state law and see if that permits that. Okay, we're going to look at that and come back at the next
committee and address it. And so that's where the committee work is done. So the same thing can happen here. It's just it would be an additional meeting to say, okay, here's what we want to do. We want to pass something on the fire pits comes back on fire pits. Now the council publicly, everyone can see says we want
to add in the registration. Okay, that's that's an idea we can look at um and take that back re review it and then come back with feedback about that issue at the next meeting. It will take longer because you have one meeting you know
every what two weeks now >> right so you'll have to do but but you'll that will be the process which will just supplant the the committee system I just mentioned that is the the best way to do it the most responsible way and then takes the ideas and the
recommendations but puts them in the proper legal format with the benefit of hey this is violative of state law this can't be done because the time frames aren't good enough and now you're having a dialogue specifically about it and it's coming back at the next meeting with the changes that you've asked for
or a reason why you're we can't do that or maybe at that meeting you're discussing hey we can't do that I just looked it up we're prohibited from that so that's the work that's done in in in committees but you can just do that here but my point is it needs there needs to be the benefit of the back and forth um
for the benefit of the council members um and the town so that you're not passing something that could potentially be damaging And I I I agree with that because we had this conversation at the end of the last meeting because you know when I was on the school board that's with policy that's how we prepare it.
But you know listen we've had some trust issues and this is where this stems from. So I'm going to ask my uh colleague this evening that um and where where do you want how do you want to proceed with this? Um, I am okay with
with pulling this and having this one reviewed. Um, because you know I I agree with much of what you're saying. In a normal government, in a healthy environment, you have discussion between council members and departments and administration.
Unfortunately, that's not happening and um things and ordinances are not being written. And our job here is to create policy and to create law. and it's not happening. So, I think that this came from from um Councilman Koviaak's idea
that this would be another way that we can start getting and you know, believe it or not, this council and members of this council have been writing ordinances and they always do get reviewed by by legal. It's not that that we're writing the the final ordinance.
There's always a step of of a legal review. This is just a way to facilitate that actually some of the initiatives that each of us care about will actually come to our our meetings >> and and and just Councilwoman, thank you. Are you done? And and just in def
and I just want to say because there have been directors that have sat with you and worked with with us on various topics. So, I mean, there is that part of it, but again, I I think as we move
forward, this is where we're looking to go. This is where, you know, we're we're trying to strive for. So, I appreciate that you want to pull it and that we could, you know, now the our council has heard us and with his review, um, I
think he's taking notes and seeing where we're so what the intent is and if you could help us get us there with this legislation. No, the process since we're in this quagmire right now where we're actually having to pay for extra counsel. This
was this was done by Tran's office. Shouldn't this go back to Tran's office? >> It should. >> So then this one should go back. That's what >> Which one? I'm sorry. >> This this is the one that he he he drafted. He's looking at changes that
we've suggested. >> I just think practically if you if you want to get an ordinance, they're not here. He's not here. So, I don't know if she's going to understand what you you've asked for. We should take the >> we should draft that response. >> I can certainly copy everyone on it,
including the council to take a look at it. Um, no reply all, but certainly uh so you see it in advance and and try to get to a place where we're meeting what you you intended with the with the ordinance regarding 317.1. >> Thank you, council. and and um and
councilwoman again I just want to remind you yes it is is it is uh pricier there in the years past but when um we did have the assistant town attorney sitting here which was Mr. Kaser he was paid
separately from Mr. Frank's firm. So, he was paid separately. So, you know, what's being, you know, built out tonight is yes, it's it's an additional expense, but it's one that we've incurred in years past for the assistant town attorney.
>> Okay. Well, there's more more discussion there, but I'll let that go. >> No, but you you I just want to make make Yes, it's it's costing us more this year than years prior, >> but we need to be fair. It did cost us something. So um >> and it was a it was a small set salary.
It wasn't an hourly billable and and they were working in tandem with the legal department so that there was more coordination of effort. This is very bifrocated and >> and that's what we're striving for. That's what we're striving for. So hopefully that day is coming soon. So with that being said, Councilwoman, are
you good? You want to make the motion to pull this? >> I'll make a motion to pull it. >> Thank you. I'll second. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Madame Clerk. >> Yes, ma'am. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President uh Castelino, >> yes. Thank you.
>> The motion carries. >> Okay. 2939-25, an ordinance amending supplementing chapter 7, traffic subsection 7-321, handicap parking on streets of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange, Rollington Well
to Wellington 19 McKinley. Um, have a motion to move this. I like I >> to introduce on first reading. >> Introduce on first reading. >> Yeah, I'll So moved. >> Okay. >> Is there a second? >> I'll I'll second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Castelino, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. Self-explanatory. Anyone have any uh comments on this this evening? >> No. >> Okay. Thank you, colleagues. And let's move to 2940-25,
an ordinance amending chapter 18, the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange to add a section regarding fire pits. And I am going to ask for a motion to introduce
>> You want to introduce >> this one as well? >> So again, let's have >> Okay. >> Well, we're going to talk about it in a second. Yeah. >> Okay. So, is there a motion to introduce on first reading? >> I'm making a motion to introduce. I I'll
second and we can have a discussion. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Tharpa. Council President uh Castelino. >> Yes. So, going back to 2940. So, I'm going to give the floor to um my
colleague, Councilwoman Ruden. she had some changes. Council, you could weigh in after she goes over these changes. >> Okay. So, um the intent the intent of this ordinance as it was brought to the
legal department from our residents was to create safe um regulations regarding the use of fire pits. One of the um main complaints was that that fire pits were being left unattended
and they were very close to combustible structures and um and causing causing concern. So the intent here was to just regulate fire pits. Somehow we got back language
in that regulated barbecues. So that was never the intention and that's why the words barbecue grills and cooking um is cooked is is crossed out.
>> Okay. Um there are some other changes. I don't know if you want to speak >> one one by one so you can see if that what the intent was was just fire pits. >> Okay. So my initial reaction just would be something like this. um to seek
information from the fire department. One, um what's what do we do now around fire pits? Um are there any um fires or any unnecess things like that that have happened over the last few years that they think this needs to be regulated
and then hear back on that issue generally one and I don't know if the administration can comment on that now. Um, and then the only concern of striking out the language, and this is different than the other ordinance because it's is I don't know if what was proposed in terms of a classification, if that's language that came from a
statute or something, some guidance that the administr that the legal department when they drafted this put forth. Our office didn't draft this. So I So I I understand why you struck that out. I just don't know if that was of some other import why that's in there. Um, and so that's my feedback on that
section. But I think this is an example of what would happen if this was brought to go back and forth, get some answers right in real time as much as you can and then if there's further work to be done to to look at it. Um, but to ultimately get to a product where there's an ordinance that makes sense. So I don't think the administration has
any comment on that on the fire issue. >> So council so let me just uh jump in. Councilwoman could uh I know you had the floor but I just kind I'm going to jump in here. Okay. Thank you. So, two things. So, as my colleague was stated, so we so where this generated from,
we've received complaints of uh people that are having fire pits uh active, why, you know, they leave them unattended. They go back in their home. And we've had this on more than one occasion. Um, we've had, uh, folks that
have, um, you know, people that have had their fires out of control with massive amounts of smoke blowing into their neighbor's yard, which is not to state statue because you're not, you know, I have our our former fire chief uh, here
on the deis, so he could correct me if I'm misspeaking. So, you know, we felt the need to put some to regulate this a little bit better. Um, also, um, gas devices, I didn't know I had made a request. I don't see it actually, um,
addressed here unless there's another procedure that I don't know about in the township. So, if you go to put in a gas underground gas uh, pit um, does it need to be permitted by the town and inspect it? It's like a gas line. I would hope somebody's inspecting it. Um, so I don't
know if that needs to be in the ordinance or not. So this is where this all came from. Those kind of concerns and um so again we're okay with people barbecuing using coal to you know to to grill um you know those types of
situations. So again, we I'm sure this this is substance, so we have to, you know, we're going to have to make a motion to table it this evening, but you know, if we could, you know, just give
our feet our input so something could pop out that is more in line to what our intent was in this legislation. >> So is that >> Yeah. So, I I don't know. I I think
>> like you you mentioned that barbecue grills weren't the intended or you're fine with them. I I would like to hear back from the fire department on on whether or not they think it's a good idea to include that in because maybe there's another reason why this was
added in because barbecue grills barbecue grills also have become a problem with a fire. So I I feel I I just I think something like this needs the input the the crossouts because it's here and I think on the fly to just say we're striking that out is a problem. If
you turn to the second page there's a whole section struck out about outdoor fire pits prohibited at any use group apartments and there's a a code reference there. So I don't know why that was struck out and and that needs there needs to be some feedback on the impact of that. So I think these are
fine with your explanations as to why like overhanging branches adding that in. Understand that that may be a concern. Um that's something just to see is that a problem to put in there probably isn't but just to get feedback and then at the next meeting have a
discussion on response to all of these things. And from there you may be able to pass something. It may take further work. You may say no we we we disagree. We want you to look at this this and this. And it may take a few meetings to get there, but you're at least working through your concerns, having the benefit of the professionals, not just
legal, but public safety weighing in on these things so you can get answers back that that kind of are informed, you know? Um, and then, you know, the final pit is the fee for the yearly permit. Is that something we can do? Do we have the the manpower to go out and and add that?
And and who's going to check this? And what's the penalty if you violate? I mean, these are all questions that I would always ask about any ordinance. So, if there's is someone that's not doing this or you're found to be in violation, you know, is there a section that that addresses that? Um, maybe it is in there and I haven't looked at it,
but just general questions about this um ordinance. So, >> okay. So, with this process and I think this is great conversation and how we could move forward. So, we're having input here this evening and before I continue with input, is
that what we want to do? Because in in meetings past and I'm not fingerpointing, but there's been times where we have this kind of conversation and it never gets to legal department and you know or where it needs to go. So
I assume the person yourself counsel >> should like should should and and sometimes it does. So I assume this should be coming we're giving input on this ordinance to you this evening
>> is that so that's going to bounce translate into >> you know that's >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I'm I I've t I've taken down some of your comments. Um, at least we got to the first paper. And so, um, I
will then incorporate those in my review, follow up with the administration on their input, and then come back with a draft, which may not be exactly what you want, but it'll be what I think you you're looking for, or responses. >> It may put language in here that you struck out that explain why I'm putting
it back in. Um, and then come back with a draft that for your review and approval. and you may say, "No, not good enough. We went through this and this and then go back for another review." >> Okay. So, just just for the record, I want to make sure that the information
does gas devices need a permit. Um, we want to make sure that the fire pits are being uh attended and that you can't leave them unattended. that's already in here. >> Yeah, that's in there. But but again,
just those points, those talking points, those were important. And um apartments like we don't mind if they're at apartments. I don't understand. I would we would like an explanation why that was put in there cuz I mean some of the newer apartments
are having grills on the top of their roofs. the state fire code is that they don't want barbecue grills or any kind of device on a balcony that's within five feet. So most most places have um prohibited because it's it's part of the
structure itself. >> The places such as like I would use the example Stone Hill has an area dedicated to barbecue grills that is way far it's very far away from any building or structure. So it wouldn't violate any
part of the code. So, I think what that part of that section there is is addressing uh you know uh balconies and and decking and stuff like that on fixed units >> and that's state statute. >> That's Yeah, that's in the state code.
>> So, that's state code already. >> Yeah, state code 57. >> Okay. For all >> Yeah. Gas, barbecue. Wow. >> And they all know it. That's a that's
there's some HOA regulations, but it's but there's you know there's common areas that these and and again it could be a regulation within the HOA that maybe even stricter >> gas grills on our decks. >> You have a deck. >> We're not allowed to. >> Well, it's
we'll see. >> So, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I will counsel. Okay. So, those were my concerns. I'm going to just go. We're just gonna go I'm gonna let Councilman Scarpa speak because she hasn't spoken yet. >> Yeah. I just I want to say I really
appreciate your um suggestion of reaching out. I did reach out to Captain Veio, our fire chief today and we did have a little discussion about this and I think it's really important that we get the feedback. >> Yeah. >> From him and from department heads when we move forward with this stuff.
>> Okay. >> And and I don't know what language could go in there. Again, they put season wood. Season wood is supposed to be the clean wood and our fire captain. I I know we have a member of the >> Huh? >> Yes,
>> I'm getting demoted again. >> Our chief our chief our chief our chief. I'm sorry I messed up the mayor too today and Boulder Paresi. So um w with all that being you know with those concerns I mean what the language in
here so if if smoke is a a massive amount of smoke is blown into somebody's yard. I mean is it articulated here enough or I don't know what you could say or not say uh we have season wood for that reason because it's when it is season it's not supposed to produce that
kind of >> the same wood that's sufficiently dried out. >> Yeah. Um, I have a fire pit, so I understand wood that's wet will smoke more. And the concern is that that creates >> Yes. >> Uh, uncomfortable or potential hazard for >> So, you're going to require seasoned
wood. >> That's something to look at. I I don't know. I would look to other municipalities and see if there's any model that we might have, someone else that's done something similar and use that as a base. Um, I haven't seen one to that, but and maybe it's not there, but Okay.
I don't know how you enforce that. >> I've never heard of anything about seasoned wood. Who's going to go check you? >> It's in here. It's in here already. >> Maybe it's in there, but I think you know I mean that may be an local ordinance that I know the chief had pulled this from another municipality. So, we can ask him to look into it. >> Okay.
>> Only season firewood, natural gas, or propane may. >> The chief was the one I think found this particular this particular order type of fuel. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Madame clerk, if you're looking >> I'm just looking at stuff online about fire pits and it says material must be
made of non-combustible materials like metal, concrete, brick or stone. Some people just throw things together in their backyard, you know. And so that might be >> you might be better off as a suggestion is that you put that you don't use construction material debris because
there are people that use like say womanized wood or you know they did trim work in their house and it's manufactured wood and things of that nature. People what's the easiest way to get rid of it you know instead of the garbage they throw it in their fire pit you know which will cause obnoxious >> or noxious smell of
>> this is also what the fire pit itself is made of. So >> okay. >> So that's something we can discuss with the professionals. >> My note on the season wood is what can we goal is to limit excessive smoke. So it may I may add language regarding that
issue because it's it's just about the smoke, not necessarily the wood. You hope that season wood would contribute to it. >> The intent of season wood is that it cleans it's it's it burns cleaner. It leaves less debris. It doesn't smolder as long because it's just going to burn up if it's if it's ready to go. It's
it's a fuel and it's just going to go. It's like using diesel fuel or gasoline in comparison. One one is hotter and brighter and quicker. The other one's more laborious and burning. You know, diesel fuel takes forever to light up and you know, it's just it's more
costic. Similar as a as you know, maybe using as a comparison for >> Thank you. And Councilwoman, >> um it's not just just about the smoke. It also is about what the product is that is being burnt because we have
reports of of neighbors burning plastic >> skulls, you know, like uh >> plastic skulls. >> Yeah. Um Halloween stuff in in fire pits. It's really toxic. So limiting this so that what is being burnt is just
people. We also have banned burning leaves, I believe. So, I mean to specify that only wood can be burnt makes sense because you don't want people burning plastic. >> Yes. >> And prohibit burning of certain items and we want to be even more explicit in
this as well about plastics and other things. But yes, that makes sense. I understand. >> Okay. Well, thank you. This has been very productive. >> Can we continue with going through the changes you >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So the reason under nuisance um the it's crossed out the
word unreasonably interfere that's a very subjective word unreasonably like if it if somebody is complaining to the point that the smoke from my neighbor is interfering with my health I think that's reasonable and that there should
be um the police should be able to respond to that. The reason why we we have taken this forward is because neighbors are calling about this problem and the police come out and say I and and the uh it's mostly the police
because the fire officials are not doing this in the evening. They say there's nothing we can do. So by putting some sort of safety structure in place then they can say okay you you're you're unattended this is closed down. You're burning plastic
this is closed down. you're less than 20 feet from your neighbor's um property. This is closed down. So, the reason here was really for for safety. So, unreasonably, I felt was very subjective. I think we have to listen more to our neighbors who are saying
that they have serious health um uh concerns when when fire is burning next to their homes. >> I understand. >> I would counter that though. That's not true statement about the fire because we're on 247. a fire captain has the
same authority under the under the the license of the appointed fire official that they if they administer the code, you'd probably want the fire department to go there because they can extinguish it. You send a cop out there, a police officer, I apologize, Herby, um the police officer out there, um you they're
just going to look at and say, "You have to put it out." Whereas the fire department can respond. They're there 24/7 and they can they can abate the violation right there and if need be they can whatever the ordinance says they can they can further uh send it to
the official for for whatever investigation they need to do. >> That's good to know. I didn't I didn't realize that they'll go out obviously if there's a fire they're going to go out. That's what they do. >> Yeah. 765. >> Okay. So um the the reason the reason
why I crossed out um I I I didn't know why apartments and multif family dwellings were prohibited. I think that if they are if they are um abiding by the same distances that we've set out in in the earlier paragraph of 20 feet from
the property line and 15 ft from combustible that you know why why would we um >> councilwoman they just said the code from the state is for balconies. >> I understand but we're not talking about balconies. We're talking about apartment
and and multif family dwellings >> and they have them. They said they have the Stone Hill has them. They have them. >> No, I'm just saying like there are many many apartment buildings in and multif family h homes throughout West Orange, even on streets that you might not realize that this is a multif family
home. So why would that multif family dwelling be excluded from having a fire pit if if they can meet the distance requirements? That's all I'm saying. So, I didn't understand why why we would be excluding people who are living in apartments um if if they have the proper
>> Is it in the code that they're excluded? >> I was just going to say I think she just answered your own question because if it's 20 ft away, they may not have the 20 Exactly. >> So, that's what has to be speced. >> But, but that's already specified earlier that if it's 20T, it it might not work, but it might work in some
cases. um extinguishment. This is really from from you know what what >> I'm sorry I I think this references and I I I'll look at it and come back. It says outdoor fires are prohibited at any
R2 use group. So I think in your zoning ordinance apartments and multi- dwell family dwellings there are they already it's already prohibited that outdoor fires are not allowed there. So I I want to pull that and then the code and then
come back and as to why this is here. >> I just didn't want to create a discriminatory code. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> That would be unfair to apartment dwellers. Um the as far as H I think
that's I think that the uh former fire chief would agree that these were these are part of I think a larger um code just that the fires must be attended and supervised by an adult. We added that in not just be until the fire
is extinguished. >> Yes. So I read this one. It looks like you're you're adding in obviously that and also that uh you have to have a fire extinguisher in addition to a garden hose or a sandfill bucket outside. >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that
state code? >> A fire garden hose? I honestly I don't know if that's actually part of the fire code. That may be part of this local ordinance. Um, there are there are provisions in the fire code that are
specific to fire extinguishers. Um, but I don't know if how that is exactly with this particular this particular item. You know, it may be in there and like I said, this came from the cheek. Um, and I believe that the fire officer looked at it. So, this may
be pulled out of the code. I just can't I can't uh say specifically on this particular section, >> but I understand this section. >> Okay. And then enforcement um it just follows other enforcement measures that we have which is that the police chief, fire chief or any other
code enforcement department. So in this what I crossed out was zoning official because first of all um there the health department could also be included in this. They're also a code enforcement. So why single out single out the zoning
officer? So I felt code enforcement in incorporates both departments. Does the administration have any feedback on that issue? >> I I don't believe so. I would I would like to talk to the health director first. I think that's in fairness to the health director, but >> Okay, we can come back on that item.
>> Okay. Councilwoman, I just want to interject here. So, when we say just to make sure we have the right language, police chief, fire chief, is it andor its design because the the the chief Yeah. The chiefs aren't going out on a
these fire calls >> and their employees designates or assigns I think is still there. >> All right. So I don't know if fire should be fire forced by the police department or >> I'm not trying to draw lines but it should be fire chief police chief
>> being that it's a fire >> since it's a fire. >> I'm Yeah, we could switch that. I I you know I know what some of this >> not trying to not trying to fuel that fire. >> Just saying. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think the police would
gladly let you guys have this one. So >> yeah. Yeah. Right. >> Okay. >> Talking about therapist. >> Okay. >> I just want to amend something I said earlier. There's a penalty provision in here. So that that is already in place in this uh >> it's already there. Okay. And then the
the only other thing that I added was that that the outdoor pits must be registered annually by the township. Um and a fee for a yearly permit be set by resolution, which is how we set all of our the the reason behind this um was
frankly just so that the fire department has a handle on how many fire pits are out there and if we ever are in a drought that we could quickly message people and say, "Hey, you know, no fires." while we're >> we we did that last year anyway when we had the problem.
>> We we do that anyway. So whether we know where they're at, we just tell people it's prohibited. I mean, last year there was a statewide ban, >> right? >> So we had to we we just had to tell people that we caught them, then we had they'd be in violation. So sometimes sometimes we get bigger uh teeth to
enforce from the state enforcing putting in a ban. So, >> and we're talking minimal fee and um it shouldn't be too burdensome for the >> for the administration to pick this up, right? To have somebody register online.
>> It's just another form >> to the chair. Question on this one. Um the so this would this covers uh any kind of fire pit or a permanent fire pit because there are the metal um fire you
can put in the backyard >> that's not permanent or some other type of structure. So we're looking to have a a permit I mean a registration for for anything. >> Okay. Mhm.
>> It also gives another set of eyes on, you know, what's been set up, >> but also check off of the form. Is it 20 feet away? Is it 15t away? Is it, you know, it's just another way of of enforcing what we want. >> Enforcement area. I don't know if the fire department has >> I don't think it's reasonable.
>> I just don't know. You know, we have we have our our staff on 247 on on the apparatus. They do inspections as it is to go out and do this. Um, we have a very limited fire prevention bureau to go out and do this. This is something that, you know, if we're going to go out and do enforcement, we have to consider,
you know, this may be a staffing issue. Just so you you realize. >> Yeah. No, I I hear it. >> So, >> may not be reasonable to force >> the >> that's the only thing I would take into. >> Okay. Um, madam, as you notice, I run a looser meeting because I do like all the
collaboration and the ideas. Um, council mean madam clerk. >> Um, so I'm just reading again online and it says something about um getting a permit to install um a fire pit. So that would come I
assume from the >> So that would be a permanent one. >> Right. Right. But that should be addressed in the ordinance that you are going to >> that people need to get a permit from the township in order to install and then it should be inspected.
>> That's in our ordinance. >> Is it is it >> do we have an ordinance on fires that there may this may also fall under part of the building with the UCCC because if you're building a depending on the type of >> so we may have to incorporate the
construction official. It says here, "The installation must comply with local zoning laws and the unifor uniform construction." >> Yeah, you're going to need to you're going to need a construction official in this, too. So, >> yeah. >> So, if you're building something, some people buy build permanent pizza ovens,
you know, some people build, you know, a outdoor um >> outdoor kitchens, >> outdoor kitchens, you know, so >> and they may be fueled with with wood, you know, they may not be fueled with gas. And if it's fuel or gas, then they have to go through the plumbing permit and they have to go through this, you know. So there's
>> it's a lot. >> This is this is this can be, you know, quite daunting. And what we want to make sure we we're covered whether this whether this ordinance says, you know, applicable UCCC codes or whatever the case may be. There may be we may have to
and engage the construction officials as well. And that's why I was asking about the gas line because the gas line ain't >> there's no doubt the gas line's going to need a permit, you know, and there's going to be drawings and things of that nature. So, >> so maybe the simple answer may be that
it has to apply it has to conform with all applicable UCCC regulations >> and then the construction official could just take over there because if you add if you add the UCC to this, >> we're going to be we're going to be burning we're going to have to cut down those trees to make this paper.
No, no, I get it. I get it. Okay. Is that Are you Are you done with your comments? >> I just like to ask a question. We have complaints going on right now. People are suffering um both from the smoke and from fear of being near um unattended fire pits and
pe and and when the fire fire officials go out now, they they leave. Is there anything that you can do to while this is being crafted because I do hear that this is going to be a complicated process to stop this to to respond to
people who are suffering? >> I I I don't you know it all depend somebody knocks on the door and and the ten or the owner opens the door and they said no I didn't leave it untended. I think it's it's going to be word who's who's reporting it. I don't know. You know, I think there's there's discretion
that has to be used with the fire officer that's there or the police officer. I mean, if somebody witnesses it, you know, you know, nobody's going to condone an unattended burning. If they see it, they're these the firefighters will put it out. I mean, they could just do it unattended burning. But if you knock on somebody's door and they're answering the door,
well, I'm not unattending. I'm answering the door to come to talk to you. You know, these are some of the scenarios you're going to run into. Um so um yeah so they they have a right to deem things to make things safe. It's just each scenario is going to be you know uh have
to be addressed at when they go there you know >> but right I'm just saying that right now we have nothing and this this is obviously going to take a few months to get right. >> So I don't think so a couple times >> next meeting. >> Yeah. >> The mom works best. No, no, that's one
of the things we talk about like you know there there's there's going to be we should address the prohibited burning leaves and and you know construction debris those things that should be addressed in there that that's clear and definitive.
>> So I think we're making a lot of progress and this is very helpful to understand what the goal is at least for me in crafting it. I've um doing research on other municipalities and see who has any fire pit ordinances that we can use as a basis, but I think it makes
sense to to regulate this in the way that you're looking for. It just has to come back. >> Okay. >> I think you Sorry, mayor. I >> was going to say that I just I think you already have the people that are involved are already involved already chief
captains. So, we already know that this is happening. We just have to bring in the building official. >> We've had we've had two at least two if not three meetings on this already ourselves internally. >> Right. Great. >> It shouldn't take that long. That was the point I was making. That shouldn't take that long because everyone is
already involved in >> Thank Thank you, Mayor. Uh Mr. The the only thing that I notice from from the ordinance is that um because of the restriction that you have to be 20 ft from the property line,
you could essentially restrict homes with small yards from ever having >> I was thinking the same thing. >> That's just because my old house was 40 by 100. So, um, I wouldn't have the space, uh, to put a fireplace.
>> So, funny you should bring that up because I said, and I forgot to mention myself this evening, my property is 40 by 150. So, does that mean my pit would it go right smack in the middle? Like,
how does that work? So, >> sideways. >> Yeah, I get a very skinny pit. So, is that 20 feet? My question was is that I forgot to ask was that 20 ft um by code or is that
>> here in in >> that's in this? >> Yeah, whatever. >> We don't have anything. >> Oh, we don't. So, so then I would ask to bring that down to 15 ft >> because there are properties like I said all down the hill.
>> All down the hill. So, we got it cuz we're big. >> That that guideline was not put forward by me. It was put forward by >> okay >> by legal and I assume that that came from some sort of fire code. >> So >> So we could we could look at it. We could talk to everybody. So they
>> so and just looking at what Bloomfield does, they do it a different way where they the sections regarding recreational fires and they then cover um outdoor fire pits and untreated lumber, treated lumber and so it's it's a different way
of dealing with it, but it it may um address some of the concerns as well because it talks about smoke and excessive smoke as being something that could trigger a potential fine. >> Did they put anything about the feet and how many feet away? uh must be fires must be kept in the re rear yard at
least 15 feet away from any structure combustible >> except well that's what we have 15 feet but property line's a whole different yeah >> which in theory if you think about it if you just do the 15 ft if you're on a property line if there's a there's a h
there's no house on a property line that's normally there's no house on the property line so you're going to be at least 20 feet from or 15 feet from somebody else's house >> yeah but you do have people that would put their fire pit in the corner of somebody else's property. >> That's where you have to have that
distance with something with, you know, 15 ft of any property. So, if you put it on, you put it right on your property line and it's within 15 ft, your violations >> and and and they include it in the nuisances public health section and it's just recreational fires is is listed as
one of the areas under that. So, uh, it's enforced by code enforcement and then there's an ability to abate the condition, which is good for residents who may not have known before their binds actually kick in. So, um, I'd love the opportunity to to take what you've given and and provide feedback with what
I'm seeing in other places and maybe there's some things that that you like, you don't like, but there's different ways I at least quickly I'm seeing this done. I was thinking the same thing the first time should kind of be a warning, you know, like other >> Well, the Well, we do our fines by
resolution. So, so >> no, here's any person who violates shall be punished by not doing. So, you're going to get a a violation right there. >> You're talking about permit fees. >> Yeah, permit fees. I'm sorry. Okay. Is everybody good? Any more comments? Are we all >> I look forward to back? I think we'll
get this right. >> Okay. I want have a question. it will this just in the interest of making this happen um you will be emailing the council >> within like so that we have enough time to review it before it comes back
>> as an ordinance >> before our next meeting. >> So um what's your normal process on getting the agenda like do you have a deadline when you get it? We usually get the agenda. We get it th Well, you have to get it to madame clerk uh Wednesday
before the meeting. No, the >> by 3. >> So the our meeting on you may have an extra day because the 16th's on a Thursday. So let him know. >> Well, it would be if if our meeting's on a Thursday. So we would I would probably
I I'd have to figure out the date I need the meeting material by because it wouldn't be a whole. Don't forget we have Columbus statements. >> Yeah, >> it's I don't I have to figure it out. I can't do it off the top of my head.
>> So, I think it's appropriate under the OPMA guidelines, I would submit it. >> So, it's part of that agenda packet, you have it. And then >> um if we want to discuss anything that has to be done here, emailing me candidly separately, your comments would
technically be a violation because it should be at the public meeting the dialogue so the public can see it. So >> um if I were to send it early, I wouldn't be able to feed back until the meeting, >> but I can try to get it to you as early as possible for that deadline. >> Right. Yeah. So it' be Friday the 10th.
>> Okay. So, we appreciate that because this has been very uh >> healthy this evening and >> yeah, >> um hopefully you have enough from all of us >> to um you know be able to edit this. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Um we're good with that. Okay. Um did we do the motion to table it? >> No, you you already p introduced it on Okay. So, so we'll now we got to table it. Correct. >> Okay. >> Right. Yeah, we have to table it. didn't want to table it, right?
>> There was a motion and a second for discussion. I don't I know you called the role, but I don't think the intent was to vote on it for first reading. >> Oh, that's what they did. >> Oh, okay. Um, so how does that work? That's interesting because usually I'll I'll do a motion, you know, in a second
>> and then that's discussion right there. >> Yeah. Before it's voted on. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. So, they voted on it. All right. Do we need to turn this down now or or make a motion to table it? >> Can they resend? Motion to resend the second resend the vote and then table.
>> Okay. I'm I I make >> No. Uh Councilwoman Ruden would have to resend first if she made the first. >> Make a motion to resend. >> I'll second. Okay. And then does C No, Councilwoman Castelino, you would have to do the second. >> I Okay, >> you second.
>> I second my You second to resend. I got it. >> Um >> Okay. And now a motion to >> now the the roll caller on >> Oh, so sorry. Yes. Getting ahead of myself. >> All right. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. Council President
Castelino. Getting all >> Okay. Motion carries. >> And now you do your next motion. >> Motion to table. >> Okay. So, I make a motion to table. >> Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes.
>> Councilwoman. Council president. >> Yes. Motion carries. All right. So that's tabled. >> Okay. Thank you, madame clerk, and to everyone for that productive session. Um, pending matters, new matters, council discussion. Are we all talked
out this evening? >> I think so. >> Um, do I need to to discuss the appointment to the Rena House or is that just >> No, that's not done. >> Okay. Yeah. >> All right. You're good then. Okay. Awesome. Can I get a >> I had sent you I had sent you somebody as a con a consent appointment
>> for um for the rent leveling board. I I sent you his resume. >> Who was it? >> Um the only one I got was David Miller. No, >> I I don't remember getting that.
>> Can you tell me when? >> Yes, that's on a second. And the madame clerk will work on the date for that meeting. >> Oh, yeah. So, we should talk about that. >> It's special, >> right? >> We're going to We'll do it tomorrow. Do it tomorrow.
>> Yeah. We got to get >> We're shooting for Monday. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Right. Yeah. Everyone should check their calendar. Yes. Okay. Just so you know, I I sent Mrs. Wool a email early to see if she's available.
>> Awesome. Thank you. >> I will I will reach out to her in the morning. >> Please, Peter, copy me on the response so I can be available. >> Yeah, you were copied on the email. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Can
>> you want to get it to her tomorrow or >> is that this? >> Oh, here I have this is from June 12th. I have Oh, wait. What are you doing? >> I I I had suggest I wanted to suggest somebody for rent leveling. >> Okay. Email here from June 12th. Is that the one you're talking about
>> for Connor or? >> No. >> Oh, okay. You want to put somebody on the renov? >> We have No, I did put that tonight. >> Um, >> we got a meeting Thursday. I don't have any other David Miller. David Miller.
>> Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, yes. Okay. Did you send out the resumes to everybody? >> Yeah. >> Uh, tomorrow I because he's being appointed. >> Yeah. I'm I'm good. I could consent on him. >> You don't need consent, do you? >> No. >> Oh, >> it's my appointment.
>> Oh, it's your appointment. Yeah. >> Nice of you, >> but I I'llend it out. >> Okay. So, then we could shut the meeting and you just get it to her. Are you or you need to vote on it now or No, you don't do need to vote. >> Okay. >> So, we could make a motion to close it. >> Motion resis appointment. So, you'll get
me the resume and then we'll put it on for the next agenda because you do have to consent on a consensus appointment. >> Okay. On the next agenda? >> Yeah, cuz I I didn't get the information or I >> if I did, I don't know where it is because I don't see it here. You want to
What are you trying to do? >> I just wanted to get council consent. I thought it was going to be on. So, it's okay. We'll do it next time or Monday. >> They could still attend the meeting. I don't see any email in my mailbox, but >> except for the one in June.
>> Okay, except for a consensus. >> Is that it? >> Everybody good? We're going to go home. Okay. Do I have a motion to end this meeting to >> 34? Right. A second. >> Thank you. >> Favor favor.
>> Any oppose? >> No. Thank you, West Orange, for hanging in there. >> Orange. >> And uh thank you to my colleagues for giving me this privilege this week. >> Thank you. You did a fabulous job. Just come.