Good evening, West Orange, and welcome to the township council meeting for December 9th, 2025. I almost can't believe I'm saying this, but this is the last council meeting for 2025. Uh we are coming to you live from council chambers at 66 Main Street. If
you'd like to join us, please join us in person, but as always, there is no public comment on Zoom. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to the council president, >> Mr. Fagan. Thank you. And I hate so much to burst your bubble, but there may be a
special meeting, a brief special meeting between now and the end of the year. >> Okay. >> I was just testing you, council. >> Okay. Okay. So, and we're going to need you likely. So, just want to mention that, Madam Clerk. >> Yes. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held
in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975. The annual notice was emailed to the Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025.
>> Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> present. >> Council President Koviaak, >> present. >> Mayor McCartney, >> thank you everyone. We are now to our conference agenda and uh Mayor
McCartney, we'd like you to come forward and tell us what you need to tell us, please. >> Thank you, Council President, colleagues, council colleagues. Actually, it's my honor the end of the year to recognize and present this proclamation to CASA, the Courtappointed
Special Advocates of Essex County, recognizing their 40year anniversary. So congratulations to you. This proclamation reads, "Whereas courtappointed special advocates of Essex County, CASA Essex was founded 40
years ago with a clear and vital mission to provide trained courtappointed special advocates for children placed in foster care due to abuse and neglect. Whereas since its founding, CASA Essex has remained steadfast in its commitment
to ensuring that every child it serves has a dedicated advocate, an individual who stands besides them, amplifies their voice, and keeps their best interests at the center of every judicial decision. And over the past four decades, Kasa
Essex volunteers, ordinary citizens doing extraordinary work, have supported thousands of Essex County children, offering consistency, care, and advocacy during some of the most challenging moments of their lives. As the first
CASA program established in the state of New Jersey, CASA Essex has led the way in community-based child advocacy, setting a standard for excellence, compassion, and impact throughout the state. The Township of West Orange is
proud to be home to CASA Essex advocates and board members who generously contribute their time, talent, and expertise to uplift children in foster care, demonstrating the profound impact that engaged and compassionate community members can have. Their service reflects
the values of our community and reinforces the essential role of West Orange plays in strengthening Kasa Essex mission and supporting the well-being of Essex County's most vulnerable youth. Now therefore, be it resolved that I,
Susan McCartney, mayor of the township West Orange, do hereby recognize and commend courtappointed special advocates of Essex County on the occasion of its 40th anniversary and encourage all residents to join in honoring Kasa Essex
extraordinary volunteers celebrating its legacy of advocacy and supporting its supporting its continued work on behalf of the children in foster care. So, please join me. Thank you. I can take a picture. Good. Want to
still in the middle? Yeah. Okay. Words first. >> Word first. >> Yeah. Let's do a picture over here in the center. with the uh graphic in the back. >> Yeah. >> Sure.
>> Now, don't worry. Don't worry. >> Okay. Everybody look this way. Okay, thank you. >> Yeah. >> Hi everyone. Good evening um to the council. I just want to say my name is Mara Higin Bothotham. I am the executive director of CAS of Essex County and this
is our 40th year serving the town of Essex, the county of Essex County. Um, we are a volunteer-based organization. We take volunteers from the community to work with children who have been removed from their home because of abuse or neglect and placed in foster care. We
can't do this without ordinary citizens who step up to help us. In Essex County alone, we have 600 kids right now that are placed in foster care. That's the large the second highest number in the state of New Jersey. So, you know, it's important that we stand up and make sure that these kids know that they matter
and that someone is paying attention to them. You know, our volunteers are extraordinary. They do a lot of things. They make sure that all the things that are falling through the cracks while a child is placed in foster care, which can be from age birth to 21 years old of age, um that they are getting the
attention they need and deserve because all children deserve the opportunity to thrive. And these children have been put in some very precarious positions, you know, by no fault of their own. So, it's very important that the community shows up and make sure that they know that, you know, they're not forgotten. And
that's what we do every day. And so when the community recognizes what the volunteers do, particularly two of the volunteers that were standing here with me tonight are West Orange residents. We have some other volunteers that are West Orange residents as well. It's important that people know how important it is to do it and that you can help us. Um, all
of our information is at our website at www.casaessesex.org. We're always looking for more volunteers to support us because I believe I mean I'm the executive director, but I believe that our work is vital. you know, the children come from all over the county and the more we do, the better we are as a community. So again,
to the mayor and to the council, thank you for recognizing us. We are the oldest program in the state and we continue to continue with our work. So thank you. Thank you. Uh, next on the agenda is a presentation on our proposed debt
management plan. Uh, we have been working, we, the council and the administration have been working for most of this year on a plan to address what I would consider to be excessive uh, borrowing that we've done. and it's
now taking up about 12% of our budget to pay uh the principal and interest on the borrowing that we've made. We've come up with a uh a plan to start addressing it. It's about a 12 or 13year plan to address uh
our problems and uh we've got uh Mr. uh Datiniac who's our chief financial officer uh up to uh speak with us. We've also got a a couple of of people from our financial advisors known as Phoenix
adviserss uh Brian Morris and Cliff her and the three of them are going to triple team you to as we go uh through what we're proposing to fix our our debt problems. Mr. Zinak, please take it
away. >> Thank you, Council President. Um am I loud enough, Joe? >> You're loud. Okay, good. Uh, thank you for the introduction. Um, as you said, I have representatives from Phoenix Advisors with me today. Uh, Phoenix Advisors acts as the township's
financial advisor. So, when we go out and issue debt, Phoenix Advisors is there uh with us, advising us, helping us bid the u uh the debt service out. Um, so they've worked with me to develop a debt management plan. So, I'd like to
get right into it. the state of the township's debt. Uh during the 2025 budget hearings, um you probably heard me uh talk about the state of the township's debt many times. Uh as council president said, it is a
significant part of our budget, right up there with health insurance costs, pension costs, um salaries and wages. So the township's net debt as of 2024 is over 171 million and that amount has
climbed 56% in the last 5 years. So we've we've done some considerable um capital projects that have increased that net debt and with that increase in net debt comes an increase in the expenses associated with that debt. So
as of the 2025 budget uh our debt payment incorporate uh encompass 12 and a half% of the total budget. So recognizing that allowing the debt to increase exponentially places a financial burden on the residents um we
got some typos in here but we've developed a long-term debt management plan that will guide this and future council's uh capital planning. So we have some goals with this debt management plan. We have to continue to pay down outstanding debt which will
reduce the related debt service over time. So as you pay your principle down uh the interest calculated on that principal reduces. We want to look to take advantage of lower interest rates. So hopefully as as rates come down um we can permanently finance our outstanding
notes and lock in that rate. So, uh, if if you're familiar with a 30-year fixed mortgage, you know, the timing of when you get that mortgage will determine your interest costs over the life of that mortgage. So, hopefully you want to get that mortgage when rates are historically low and not when they're
high. So, over time, the goal, the overall goal really with this plan is to overtime replace borrowing with pay as you go funding. So paying cash instead of issuing debt. We want to carefully manage our capital
spending with strategic planning to build that payo capability. If you don't have a plan on how to get yourself out of debt, you know, you can't incorporate a pay go um uh type of plan. We want to achieve strategic success by
freeing up millions of debt service dollars annually to support operations like the things we do, police, fire, recreation, um to support capital investment and when possible return value to the taxpayers through an increased usage of
surplus rather than taxation. So hopefully by reducing our amount of debt service um we're going to have to ask less from the taxpayers. So, we're going to talk about municipal debt quickly. And in order to do that, we have to talk about the difference
between an operating expense and a capital expense. So, operating expenses, um, that's salaries and wages. That's our everyday operations. Um, picking up the garbage, doing those recreation programs I talked
about, those are operating expenses. You're going to do those on an annual basis. Capital expenses are special. Capital expenses are for individual projects or special items like you know the purchase of Rock Spring for instance is a capital expense. They're typically
high value and for that reason we can't ask the taxpayers to fund it all in one year. So what do we do? We go out and we we do an ordinance and we get the cash and we pay back that that amount over 10
15 years. And and the reason that you do these sorts of things is that let's say you build a recreation facility. Well, if we ask the taxpayers to fund it all in one year or two years, is it really fair that 10 years down the line
you move into West Orange and you get to enjoy that that recreation building while the people eight years ago paid for it in total. So, by spreading out the cost over the useful life of the asset, it's more equitable to the taxpayers. So, you're all enjoying it
and you're all paying for it at the same time. And that's that's in the little uh blurb I gave uh at the bottom there. All right. Municipal debt. So, I talked about um the the mortgage as as the
probably the easiest way to compare municipal debt to what a homeowner has. So, if we talk about a 30-year mortgage for $500,000 at 5%, that's going to cost the homeowner $465,000
approximately in interest. So, every payment you make, it's going to be some principal and some interest. And over the life of that loan, you're going to pay that much. So that $500,000 house or at least that $500,000 loan is really going to cost you $965,000.
If you move that rate up 1% or 100 basis points, instead of $465,000 in interest, you're going to pay $580,000 in interest. I think anybody that has bought a home understands that relationship with the interest rate. So
it's no different for us when we go and borrow in in higher interest rate environments that cost of that issuance is going to go up. We borrowing at a lower interest rate the cost is going to go down.
So we have a combination of short and long-term debt. So our short-term debt is obviously more susceptible to the interest rate spikes. Um, but when we can lock in with long-term debt, which is a municipal bond, we hopefully do it
when the rates are low. That's why we have these guys. They help us out with that. So, we do want to talk about the difference between sort of consumer debt and and the the rate uh environment that
we operate in in the municipal bond rate. So, if you're looking at uh mortgage rates right now, they're sitting at like 6 and a4% 6 1.5%. The current municipal bond rate is about four and a quarter and I think is that
on a AAA? >> Uh yes, AAA 30-year. Yep. >> Okay. So, because our most of our debt issuances are tax exempt, the rates are going to be lower than than than the consumer rates. So, you know, don't think that we're operating at the same,
you know, mortgage interest rate uh percentage as everyone else. All right. Now, that it gets more complex, I'm going to turn it over to Brian. Um, and he's going to talk about sort of the municipal bond market since 1985.
>> Uh, great. Thank you. Uh, well, thanks again everyone for having us. Again, my name is Brian Morris with Phoenix Adviserss is my colleague Cliff her. Uh so, as John just pointed out, um the uh good uh benefit of being a municipal entity is due to the size and credit uh
quality, you're able to borrow at lower interest rates than regular consumer um interest rates. So, this is a graph that shows the past essentially 40 years of interest rates. The blue curve is the current rates. The orange is the average
over the 40 years with the red bars being the time that rates have been lower than current levels. So the point of this Okay. Uh so the point of this is just to Oh, there we go. Uh to show that even though we just talked about how high
mortgage rates are, you hear about inflation, just generally higher economic rates on the consumer side, municipal rates are fairly average. if anything slightly below historic averages. So when we're talking through this, even though we're referring to rates being a little higher than they
have been, we're kind of comparing it to the lows of during the pandemic where, you know, we were essentially borrowing it, you know, next to next to nothing. So I just wanted to put this in here just to put it all in perspective uh as to what kind of, you know, orders of magnitude we're talking about when we
discuss the municipal bond rates. Uh, so, uh, as John mentioned, I'm going to go into a little more technical, um, information here. Um, it gets a little bit in the weeds. I'm going to try to do my best to to present it in a way to not put everyone to sleep. So, just bear with me. Um, but this slide just
presents the township's current debt profile. So, as John mentioned, the net debt is approximately $170 million. Uh, it includes 54 million of fixed rate long-term bonds, uh, about 11.4 4 million of bond anticipation notes that
come due in March of next year. 62.7 million of bond anticipation notes that come due in November of next year. Uh 3.3 million of special emergency notes that come due in November. The only difference between the bands and the special emergency notes are the bans are
for regular capital purchases, uh land, building improvements, what have you. These special emergency notes are for uh contractually required severance uh liability payments uh that the township has been making. Uh that you've got about $38 million of authorized but not
issued debt. So that's bond ordinances that have been approved but the funds have not actually been borrowed against yet. Um so it counts against your debt even though it's not actually issued and being paid interest on. And a good chunk
of that is the the uh JMEU, which is the joint meeting of Essex and Union. That's essentially your sewer uh service. They have a bit of a unique um uh uh situation there that I won't go into a ton of detail, but essentially, even though their own entity, you issue the
debt um uh for them essentially, but not all of the debt needs to be issued. So, a lot of it sits in this authorized nots issued account. Uh and then about 700,000 of New Jersey infrastructure bank loans which are those joint meeting debt uh loans that have actually been
issued. Uh so as John mentioned for 2025 debt service and deferred charges which is the special emergency notes uh debt service is uh combines for 13.5 million or about 12.5% of the total budget. Uh we'll we'll see on the next slide that
there are large drops in the aggregate debt service in 29 and 38 which inform kind of the timing of the rest of the debt plan. Uh the township's current bond rating is double A. It's the third highest rating by S&P Global. It was last affirmed in October uh just a
couple months ago. And uh just to put it in perspective, it's like a a person's credit score, right? It impacts how much you can borrow, what you can borrow for essentially. Uh and just as John mentioned as well, you know, we work with the administration every year to analyze the outstanding debt, evaluate
the market, look at the budget, see if it makes sense to keep the the debt in short-term, uh go long-term with bonds, and and come up with essentially uh look at the plan and update it as necessary given the um the uh economic environment.
So this chart is just a recapitulation of the township's outstanding bonded debt by series. So this essentially is the 54 million that I just referenced of long-term bonded uh debt. So, as you can
see, uh, we're at about 8 and a half million or so, uh, currently. Uh, that decreases over the next couple years. That large drop I just mentioned in 29 and then decreases again and then drops
again significantly in 2038. So again, the this kind of informs the debt plan because the idea is to take advantage of those drops by financing the existing debt and then start starting to work in that payo capital which again is just
capital raised through the budget in cash that can be available for those capital purchases rather than issuing new debt. Uh so again the uh township council and CFO has expressed a desire to transition
to that PGO capital plan uh where you fund capital through the budget in lie of borrowing debt and paying interest on that debt. Uh this uh analysis that we prepared does include uh about 17 or so million of offsetting uh revenues. So,
the township expects to receive 6.3 million in green acres grants for that Rock Spring acquisition that was mentioned as well as 10.8 million from the sale of 55 Lakeside. So, these funds will be used or earmarked towards the repayment of debt and they factor into
that analysis uh by paying down the debt at the appropriate time. Uh I pointed out earlier that there was that $38 million of authorized but not issued. Again, that's debt that has uh been approved by a bond ordinance but not actually borrowed against. Uh we
identified just shy of 23 million that will need to be funded for those projects and that excludes a lot of that joint meeting uh sewer debt that I mentioned. Um so the long-term debt plan calls for the first long-term bond
issuance prior to 2028. It could be really any time over the next three years. And that again, as was mentioned, depends on market conditions. We we want to try to borrow the long-term fixed rate debt when the rates are are most advantageous. So, we know it'll be
sometime before 28 because going back, that's when that big drop is. So, you want to take advantage of that in the budget, you know, but of course, we want to make sure we're doing it uh when rates are most favorable. Um so how much are we targeting in that
annual payo capital plan? So working with John uh we estimate about 5.5 million is a reasonable and attainable uh goal. It's about 5 million in capital and 500,000 for those special emergencies that I mentioned earlier. Uh we expect based on this plan for that to
be 100% funded through the budget by 2038. And again that's that second big drop. So, we're using the current debt structure to take advantage of that and work in this new capital. Um, and in the interim, we would plan for 2% annual
increases to the debt service. Uh, unfortunately, we can't based on the amount keep it completely flat. Um, so we've worked in that 2% target uh to get us there. Um, so for 2025, there was a ordinance 2915-25
that was approved. So, we included that in our analysis. Uh and then of course we include the new 5.5 million um prior to 2038 from 2026 to 2036. It's essentially funded by a mix of debt and
PGO capital because essentially as we reduce the debt we can increase the PGO capital. It can't all happen just at once. So we slowly over about a 10-year period um we you know uh phase it in. Um and again we include the 23 million of
authorized but not issue that I mentioned. Uh the below is just kind of goes into what exactly that means. Bonds notes when. So I kind of already talked through all that um but it's there uh for your reference. So now here's a lot a chart with a lot
of numbers on it. So just uh bear with me. But again this just shows the existing debt service in this column again that 13.5 that we mentioned. uh the new debt service here. So we are taking on new debt service as I
mentioned but the idea is to somewhat manage that keep these numbers on a downward uh projection so that when we add this new payo capital starting at 2.3 million increasing to 5.5 million in
2038 as mentioned the total obligation of PGO capital plus annual debt service increases at about 2% really mo more or so about a percentage and a half percentage 3/4 over that time. So that
the total budgetary impact is this net uh amount. And then you'll see once we get to uh 2038 that payo is completely funded. There's no new debt, no new debt is authorized. You're still amvertising some of the old debt but nothing new is
being added on at that time. So this is a similar chart but this shows all the uh new debt as well as the payo capital. So this top blueish purple color is the new payo capital. So that is you can see it's increasing over time
until it gets to 38 and that's the 5 1.5 million. So if you take that off for a second, you can see the actual debt service goes from the 13 and a half currently increases slightly in the near- term to that 2028 drop that we
mentioned and then pretty drastically starts tapering off and it's replaced with that PO capital. So again the idea is to take advantage of the drops in the debt pattern that we have and phase in the cash funding and reduce the reliance
on the uh debt service. Uh this is just another summary of the amorization. Uh just you know a lot of this is just showing in in in numerical uh form what we've been talking about. Um, so it shows the starting net debt of
171 million, the new ban authorizations, the new special emergency note authorizations. Again, those are ending at this period. There's no new debt authorizations here. The Payo capital starts and continues. Uh, these adjustments, this one is to
reduce the joint meeting debt that I mentioned, that's not necessary. So, that just comes right off the top. And then the 17 million is the um uh the grants and the sale of land that I mentioned earlier. Um so the ending net debt, you can see we're at 171 now. That
decreases pretty quickly to the point where you get break through 100 uh by 2033 and just keeps decreasing over time till zero in 2022. There's no new debt authorization though again after 37 just to keep that in
mind. Net debt percentage, that's the state measures of your debt over the tax base. So you're limited to 3 and 12% statutoily. You're at about 2.2% now. That'll decrease to 2%. And then again, as the debt liability goes down, that
net debt percentage goes down as well. Same thing with the debt service carrying charge. That's the 12.5% of budget. So that's going to decrease pretty dramatically over time. So again, that's freeing up room in the budget to be used for this um PGO capital projects
or really other operational um items or other priorities that the township teams uh necessary. And then there was one more slide, but oh there it is. Um this just highlights some debt metrics. Um I talked about uh
debt service as a percent of budget you're at 12 1.5% typically about 10% plus or minus so a little on the higher side there. Um John mentioned earlier that the increase debt annual debt service in the budget from 8 million in 2020 to 13 a.5 in
2025. That's that 56% increase essentially. Um the net debt percent of one of 2.2 two, which equates to the 171. And as I mentioned, it's um capped at 3 and a half% by state statute. I would say
there's no magic number rule of thumb. I would say most towns are in the ones, maybe one and a half or so. Um so a little bit high by comparison as well. So just some charts again to further back that up. And that uh is the last slide. Thank you so much, Brian. So we we we
showed you a lot of numbers and complex charts, but I I think just to summarize things, why are we doing this is we need a road map and so that will allow us to sort of discipline our capital planning.
Um following this is like putting yourself on a diet and going to the gym six days a week and sticking with it beyond the one week after New Year's. Um so this is going to require a a a real commitment. Yeah. A real commitment uh
by all of us to achieve this. But you know what is the advantage of of the payo? You you sort of build yourself like a fortress balance sheet. Oh, I want to be on camera. Oh, I don't want to be on camera. um
by having the cash in the in the bank account, you know, not only are we having cash available for capital projects, but we're earning interest that we bring back to the current fund as revenue. So, it's not only serving us on the capital side,
it's helping us out on the current fund side. It's going to give us options. Um, you know, we could look to say, "Hey, we want to pay for a firet truck. Maybe we just or multiple fire trucks. Maybe we just say, "Okay, over the course of the next three years, we're going to put
aside $500,000 or $750,000 specifically for fire trucks, and then at the end of three years, you know, we could buy the the the ladder truck." So, it it's going to help us in terms of being more disciplined in our planning. Um, >> and if I could interject real quick to
that end, of that 13.5 million that you currently budget, 5 million of it is interest, right? So eventually it allows you to replace the interest cost with more capital projects. >> Yeah, that's I was just going to get in reducing the interest expense. I mean, anybody that has paid interest on a
credit card, you know, you feel like, all right, I just threw money away. Um, on the flip side of things, even though this is a plan, life happens, right? life happens for a municipality, we still would have the
ability to go out and issue debt for something. God forbid town hall collapses one day and we have to build a new town hall. You know, sticking to the payo method is not going to be feasible when we'd have to borrow 50 $60 million to build the town hall. But at least
having a plan in place and something to follow and a number to say, hey, here's the capital and looking at it every year and saying, does this still serve us? Does this work in the current market conditions? You know, we needed something to start with and I feel like
this is a really good starting point and it's it's going to be really good for us to follow in terms of our future capital planning. And again, it's something that you look at every single year. Maybe you look at it twice a year. uh to say again, does it still work for this community? Does it still work for the
the market conditions that we're operating in? Um >> I think that's important. It's a it's a living document really. It needs to be refreshed and updated annually at least because like John said, things happen, market environments change. You know, we planned on a debt issuance this time.
Maybe because of rates, it makes sense to move it here. And you know, yeah, it's it's a living and breathing plan. I think, you know, gets updated consistently. Council President, do you want to open the floor or the deis for questions or
>> That would be great. I I would just like to make one point because you finance types don't really emphasize the pain here. So, what we need to keep in mind is the phrase delayed gratification,
right? You pay money to go to college and hopefully after you get college you can make a lot more money, right? So you delay your gratification. We're talking about that here. Up here we're talking about borrowing $5.5 million a year. Over the last five years, we have
basically borrowed double that in each of the five years on average. And we did that in the middle of some of the highest interest rates any of us have ever seen. So that's why we need this hard medicine. And it need you need to understand that we're going to have to
tighten our belts. We're going to it's going to be a little painful because we're used to borrowing twice as much as this. And anybody who's gotten into credit card debt knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's a lot easier to get into debt problems than it is to get
out. And so that's what we're talking about now. And the charts are really nice, but we're we're going to have to remember that when you want to come up and say, I you know, I want my uh street to be fixed. uh we're going to have to say we're going to have to take that
into consideration and figure out what our priorities are. Do we need a street fixed or do we need a new fire engine? That's the kind of difficult decisions we're this plan will force us into with the flexibility that we can change out of it if we need to. So, I just want to
make that point. But yes, please let's open up. I can see uh patient Councilwoman Castelino has her hand up wants to start the questioning. Sounds good to you guys. >> Yeah. So, so thank you. Thank you, Council President. Thank you, gentlemen, for your presentation. Um, and and
looking at that debt ratio number at the 3.5% where we had been running a little high the past couple years since we bought all of these properties. But prior to that, um, we were running way below uh 1.5% is where most towns run
because, you know, this is a system that fortunately we all inherited. And to your point with the way we've been doing things we've been doing, you know, we've been bonding our debt for, you know, decades now. So I I appreciate and it's
great to have this presentation because we've never had something this in debt, Mr. Dutiniac, and I know you're you're trying to get us in in another system. But to the point my colleague just made in regards to, you know, having to make choices between streets being paved and
a a new fire engine. Um, I mean, they're both needs that can't wait. So, I it's it's going to be tough. Now my question uh for you now is we also had bought properties on Ashlin Avenue
and are they in this equation when they are to be sold because that's a couple million dollars there and I didn't see them in this plan. >> No, it's a good question. I the the debt for them is is captured in here but the potential sale of them offsetting debt is not.
>> Yes. So that's a couple million dollars that have been calculated into this plan. Um, I know the revenue for the cannabis, I wasn't um a proponent of that because we haven't seen major revenue streams yet. I think last year
we might have net about 17,000, which is a lot lower than uh than we thought, especially when we had $150,000 in uh legal fees to create all the uh ordinances for them. Um, so, um, obviously we have to get our revenue
streams higher, but, uh, no, I I appreciate this. Like you said, it's a starting point, but the reality of the situation is, you know, we have streets that haven't paid in over 20 years. You know, Cornell Street is still waiting. Hillside Terrace is still waiting. Uh, and there are streets that just can't
wait. So, um I appreciate our engineer that she uh goes out and she gets us these uh other grants so we could supplement, but it should be interesting to see how we could, you know, pull this together. Uh we have people advocating
for parks. So, this year in 2026, where where are you starting with as far as this new budget diet um and the projects on the horizon? >> So, it's a great question. So the the budget diet really does start with 2026
in that the $5.5 million new authoriz becomes the baseline for for projects throughout the as we go through the years that 5 a.5 million goes from being
all debt to all cash. So it's it's sort of like changes over. It'll be 2 and a half million in debt and 3 million in cash, but it's the 5.5 million new authorization that this plan is built around because we need those reductions
to net debt to actually make this project work. So, that's the baseline. We're going to start with a $5.5 million capital plan for 2026, >> right? I >> and and I I think it needs to be said again because it's important and Brian mentioned it. As we're reducing the debt
and reducing the interest expense, you're freeing up >> the ability to to issue more capital because you're not going to have that what did we say was $8 million or $5.5 million of interest expense. That's that's substantial that you know we're
we're asking the taxpayers to fund five and a half million just in interest. Um, so that that 5.5 million could become even more when that interest expense drops off as this plan goes on. But yeah, to go back to 2026, it's a $5.5
million ask. >> And I know, and just so the public knows, with the properties that we purchased, we've had environmental issues that we're waiting on the grants from the state um that the mayor is diligently working on. So, and her team.
So, we hope to get that cleared up this year so we could also pay down our debt uh when we sell these properties, which, you know, with co and everything, they should have been sold a couple years ago. But thank you. I appreciate all the effort in this.
>> Thank you, Council President. >> Council, >> we we generally know when when our employees are going to retire because they give notice generally a year before. Is there some way that we can build in payment for the retirement
payouts rather than have to um go to to special emergency notes? >> So, a great question. That is part of the p the plan that $500,000 when it becomes PIGO whatever you know before we reach that 5 a.5 million whatever the
cash amount is will be that same percentage 500,000 of 5.5 million will be cash that goes to the reserve for accumulated sick and vacation. So when we reach the full 5 a.5 million payo yeah the 500,000 goes
into that accumulated sick and vacation trust. That takes a while obviously, but that is factored into this plan. >> Was there any thought given to selling Rock Spring so that we can get in a higher amount rather than waiting for
Green Acres considering that the property is still has not paid one um penny back and it's going to take 5 years to even get $5 million back. >> That wasn't considered for this plan. we
more we didn't take a look at um at at the projects in terms of like how successful they were or how appropriate they were to do. We simply looked at it as this is the debt assoc this is the debt profile and then this is what we
know we're going to get back to offset this debt and we know we have greenacres money um that we've been approved for and we know that we have a resolution with an agreement to sell 55 lakeside provided other things go through and an amount associated with that. So we we
only put those two things in. So, we didn't run any sort of scenarios of like if we go ahead and sell Rock Spring or if we sell 55 Lakeside for a different amount. We only went with with sort of what's known and and we know we have Greenacres grants and we know we have an
agreement at least uh in principle to sell. >> How do we compare to other municipalities in terms of our rating? >> I'll let Brian speak to that. >> Yeah. Uh so the double A rating is the third highest is uh above the median in the state. Uh it is is viewed as a very
strong rating. Um so you compare very favorably. Um we when we go to the rating agency, you know, we always do a presentation and we have a conference call where they ask the questions. You know, of course the goal is to always put the township in the best light. You know, I will say the calls go fairly
smoothly, pretty smoothly. you know they are obviously very um they understand you know the the excellent tax base you know um uh the the other quantitative factors. So you know all in all the the rating is very strong. I I think the
this is not anything specific to the town believe it or not but across the state the debt and pensions and fixed cost liabilities as they call it is a weakness. um pension especially, there's really nothing that you can do about it and again it's not unique to you. Um so
that's kind of a a weak spot of all New Jersey municipalities. Um but but that said um you know overall a strong rating and if if you uh were so inclined to to do things to try to get a higher rating um you know the things that I would
recommend off the bat would be reducing some of the debt per the plan uh and then just building the fund balance which again kind of go hand in hand right because as you free up room in the budget by reducing the debt that's building up those fund balances those reserves that are used for you know your
rainy day fund or future capital project. So, it's all it's really all kind of part of one, you know, plan. >> Putting you on the spot, Brian. >> What is the difference in basis points between a AAA rated bond issuance right now and and a double A?
>> Uh, so to be honest with you, believe it or not, it's really not a ton. Uh, usually the rule of thumb is 10 to 15 basis points per rating notch. So, since you're two notches below the AAA, you know, we're talking 20 to 30 basis points. So instead of getting a, you know, this is hypothetical, but instead
of getting a 4%, you'd get a 425. You know, it's really, it's not overly meaningful in the grand scheme of things. Uh, but that said, you know, every every little bit helps. >> Yeah. When we talk to S&P, that's who the township's been using, >> correct? >> For a while because I think the feeling
is that S&P is more favorable for >> and they're familiar with the >> municipality. >> Um, you know, again, we have a great median income from our residents. that's looked on favorably. Um the value of of
the municipality is is you know looked on favorably. I mean our operations have been good. Again it's they want the fund balance a little bit higher and and they really want the debt to to go down a little bit but >> so just to give you a rough idea and
again this is an over simplification over generalization but they usually like your fund balance to be like 20% of your budget give or take. Um I think offhand you're probably >> much lower than >> six something like that
>> six or six and a half percent. So that like that's why I said like that one would be a relative I mean I'm not saying it's easy but that's a relatively direct you know if if you do this this could be the result kind of thing >> and and and I think implementing this
plan not only are we reducing debt when I talk about sort of that fortress balance sheet while it may not be in fund balance it's going to be on the capital side and it's going to be cash so it's going to be looked on favorably by the rating agencies as well um
because they you know they will convert our balance sheets which are oboa specific to New Jersey municipal accounting and they convert it to GAP. So those reserves like capital improvement fund or reserve for capital projects they basically will turn that
into retained earnings because it's cash. Um so that's going to help us out with the rating agencies as well. Just one final question. Are we not starting to pay as you go until 2029 according to this chart? >> Correct. >> Correct.
>> Yeah. And the reason for that is just going back to this one here. It's if you did start anything here, it would just further increase the debt service um
beyond the 13 and a half even more. or so. I mean, we get up to about 14, but we're trying to manage it at about 2% increases per year. So, if we added any of that PO capital here, uh, essentially, there's nothing really that we could really do much about the these
years because that's debt that's already been issued and spent again. So, really, the the only time to begin the PGO and keep that like what I'll say relatively flat increase is in 2021. So, I'm sorry.
Just one more question. So, between 2025 and 2029, we are going to be building our reserve. Is is that what we're doing? >> No, we're not going to be building the PGO reserve. We're going to be paying off the bonded debt that we already have
and taking care of the bond anticipation, the short-term debt. Um because if you're in the audience, you're like, "Well, why even have short-term debt? Go ahead and permanently finance." when you permanently finance, now you're paying principal back. So, we have to wait for
these debt cliffs where we're paying off old bonds so that we can feed in the new bonds so that we're not having these massive peaks and valleys of of principal repayment. So, >> yeah, essentially this yellow bar is the
permanent financing of the existing short-term debt, right? So if they wanted to issue debt this past year, for example, you know, again, this is an oversimplification, you'd eventually just be adding this yellow bar right on top of here. Yeah. >> And that would obviously uh be
significantly higher. >> Anybody else? I I would just like to follow up on that because uh Councilman Ruden makes a very good point. Uh the short-term debt reprices every year. you got to pay it off every year and you got to take
whatever interest rates are there. And following out of COVID and with the huge increase of inflation, we were getting up to five, maybe even more than five uh% on the short-term debt. And that's what was really killing us. It was take
chewing up huge gobs of our revenue to pay these high interest rates. And we're trying to get those down because that can be very dangerous. Uh, as we can tell, when interest rates were low and basically zero, you could borrow all you
wanted. And that's what we did. And then the interest rates turned around, got up to 5%. I think they're back down to around 4% now. >> The last note we did was about two and a half% on a net interest cost basis. >> Orange market. Yeah, it's lower.
>> Yeah. uh it's a little bit uh again this probably too technical but there's a there's a uh a coupon which is the stated interest rate that's usually a lot higher then there's the actual net interest cost because the buyers like to buy it at a premium so for if if I if I
if you're issuing a $1,000 bond and I'm the buyer I would pay you more than $1,000 in exchange for a higher interest rate which reduces your net interest costs. Um so apologies kind of technical but I just want to explain that. So even though your stated interest rate seems higher, the actual net is a little
lower. So the most recent one we did a couple months back was about 2 and a.5%. >> And the short-term market, the rates are lower, right? There was a time a few years ago you had the inverted yield curve. >> We've had an inverted yield curve for a little while. It's more or less straightening itself out. The Fed's been cutting the short-term rate. We're we're
now at a point where the short-term rates are lower. Like I said, about 2 and a half% for a short-term rate. If you did like a 15-year bond today, you're probably like uh three and a half% give or give or take. >> Go. >> Um Council,
>> thank you for your presentation and this is really a nice picture of what's happening and it's a great first step. Let's hope with a new Fed share, we're going to have some lower interest rates coming up. Um but I we can see we can't cut our way out of this. We need to look at the revenue side. And I know, you
know, this was an overall presentation, but in the next month or two, as we tackle the budget, we need to really look at that. I I know you may have some ideas which you could talk to us about. And along with the rock spring, we've been looking for real income and expense
reports now for years and have not been able to get that. And I hope we could take a look at that in a real detailed way so that we can determine whether we're ever going to be able to make any revenues from that property or whether we need to sell it.
>> So you make a great point because I think we've been talking more on the expense side of things and reducing the interest expense. Um but obviously we're here for the taxpayers. So there's there's two sides of it. um we we reduce the impact on the taxpayers by cutting
expenses, but we also reduce the impact by finding new miscellaneous revenues. So I think that's that speaks to what you're talking about. Um if we can increase revenue, mis miscellaneous revenue again, we ask the taxpayers for less of a contribution from them. So you
make great point and obviously when we go through the 2026 budget hearings, which feels like a few weeks from now, um yeah, we'll expense reports. We'll supply we'll yeah we'll definitely supply the the P&Ls that we get from Keer. Uh and we'll also show you then
how that filters down to us and what we're getting on a monthly basis. >> Receive those from Keer and we need to go a little bit beyond that and do a little more detail. >> Sure. >> Okay. Thanks. >> That's all I have. >> Yeah. >> Council, >> how much have we lost in revenue due to
pilots? So you mean taxes, right? >> Taxes. Yes. >> Uh so I couldn't answer you um up here. That's that's that's a very nuanced complex conversation. So I will say in general, and these guys deal with
pilots, I'm sure all the time. Um, I I I would say the advantage of the pilot in general terms is that you take maybe something that's bladed or underutilized and now you've turned it into something that you know you're proud to drive down
the street and look out the car and be like, "Oh, that looks really nice." or maybe you get to live there or so I I think there's more to it than just looking at like the tax revenue versus what you bring in in the pilot, but
we can give you um a breakdown of what it was valued at and the current tax rate and then what we are bringing in from a pilot. So, we'll prepare that schedule for you. Jacob and I can give you that. Um, we'll give you that for all of our pilots for 2025.
>> Okay. And can you consider the timing on when we will be getting green acres, how this plays into all of this since it's um going to be slowly and it's going to take a number of years. >> Yeah. So, >> as well as the sale of the downtown parcels,
>> we talked more about the um the phasing in of the green acres money as that's going to be the reality. We didn't we never said like, oh, you're going to get 6.3 all at once. Um, but I don't know the timing. I'm hoping that now that we've done a lot of what Green Acres
required us to do in terms of the uh uh appraisals and the inspections, the environmental work, and all the meetings that that our engineer has had with them that that money is going to start flowing in because we've already been
approved for 1,50,000 and then the 1,500,000. So hopefully it becomes an annual thing um until we get our our full aotment of 6.3 million. Um 55 Lakeside. I mean I would think if everything goes through
it's it's a onehot deal and they're going to wire over the $10.8 million and we'll reserve that for payment of debt service and when we do the note um we'll reduce the note that we roll over by that 10.8 million. Do I know the
timeline on that? I I'm not sure. I know that there is a deadline in that contract. Um but I I don't know off the top of my head what the that deadline is. >> Yeah. Right. >> Well, speaking of deadlines, we are now a half hour beyond our scheduled start
of our meeting. Really appreciate this. Has been excellent. I didn't see a single person fall asleep in the audience. I can't really speak for Zoom, but uh nobody in the audience fell asleep. So, >> we could talk about bond math. >> Yeah. So, just would ask that you stick
around if you could uh until we hear from public comment because there may be some follow-up questions. >> Sure. >> Mr. Tiniac is required to be here, but it might be good to uh get a little bit more expertise. So, thank you very much. And we can also we as a council can
address this in the near term to uh to see what else we we can think about and maybe get a resolution that sort of puts this all down in writing. >> Yes. So, we do have a resolution draft um that you know I'll share with with Mr. Summer. I'll just make sure that I
haven't put anything in there that I shouldn't have. And uh we'll get that on for the next meeting. Hopefully, if we have a special meeting, it can go on there. >> Um one other thing I was going to say, uh >> oh god. Oh, we will put this presentation up on the website where I
think I have to make a few grammatical changes and some they saw some errors in there. Uh we'll get that up on the website for tomorrow um so that the public can view it and then I do have some extra copies up here. >> Sounds good. Council. >> Yeah, just one quick question. Um how
quickly could you get that information about the pilots uh the details because I mean every we all know the sales scenario around pilots and the blighted properties and I and probably some of my colleagues are actually sitting in these seats now for just that reason. Yeah,
I'll talk to Jacob tomorrow and seriously. >> We could either get that for maybe tomorrow or Thursday. Great. >> Thank you, Mr. Tinag. >> All right, let's get to our public agenda. Madame Clerk, please.
>> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the Star Ledger in the West Orange Chronicle on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange
Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Councilwoman Williams, Council President Koviaak, >> present. >> Mayor McCartney, >> Mayor McCartney.
Thank you. >> All right. Pledge of Allegiance. >> Oh, will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their public meeting. >> Mr. Fagan. >> Yes, council president. Thank you. last
on my last official meeting, I actually recognized you at the time that I should have recognized you. And I just want the uh the record to reflect I finally after 12 months >> and let the record reflect your new glasses are working perfectly. Okay, I'll be brief. I know we have a
lot on our agenda tonight. As we are entering into the holiday season, the fire department has asked me to post this. And um you know, these are some fairly obvious tips, but this is on our website and social media. We want this to be a happy, joyous season. Uh we
don't want to have disasters. So, please uh familiarize yourself with Christmas tree uh safety, extension, cord safety, and uh certainly this is a good time to check your uh your smoke detectors. Also, the fact that we are in the holiday season, let's not let our guard
down uh and overlook some obvious things around our home. Uh and uh again, I want to remind the public about the 9:00 p.m. routine checklist. Lock up your home and car, turn on outside lights, bring in valuables. These are obvious things. Uh but during this uh joyous season, we
don't want to overlook uh the obvious. And as I mentioned, uh carbon monoxide alarms save lives. Please check them. you know, carbon monoxide is an odorless gas. You're not going to know what's leaking. Um, so you need to really check those alarms and if there's any problems
with anything, you can always call our fire department, dial 911. Uh, also, uh, this is on our website. The, um, uh, the deadline of December 22, 22nd, 2025 is fast approaching.
Uh, I see Mr. Blei in the audience here and uh the holiday lights uh at Turtleback Zoo. This uh has been posted to our social media and I believe it is on it is on our website. Uh this is a busy holiday season. We have the um uh
stuff the ambulance toy drive at Essex Green December 13th and 14th. And then of course holiday holiday celebration uh giveaway December 13th at I believe that's at Washington Street School sponsored by the West Orange Hispanic
Foundation. These are on our social media and uh of course um I see uh Chief Fuel sitting in our audience here. Uh but he has Mayor McCartney has announced the appointment of new West Orange police chief uh Matthew Fula. And uh uh
this past Friday there were um it was a formal swearing in ceremony at Rock Spring and there were other additional uh promotions as well. And this information is on our social media. We have coming up on December 15th um the manura lighting uh here right in front
of town hall. That's 3:45 to 4:45 p.m. Um and you know the other thing too is this this came across yesterday. Uh again, here we are in winter and it's uh we don't usually think of winter as being in drought, but New Jersey American Water has issued a drought
warning. Uh and we have some tips up on our website uh how you can save and conserve water. We have uh December 17th manag screening uh coming up at the Jinny Duncle Pool. Again, uh this is imperative for early detection. Um this
information is on our website. Uh we also are hiring school crossing guards. I mentioned this last meeting. Uh but this is still um uh it may be cold out, but helping children will certainly warm your heart. So if you're interested in uh uh being hired as a school crossing
guard, please check out the information on our website. Uh I also want to bring this up. The application deadline is December 29th, 2026. And um we have a lot going on here. the uh West Orange Police Department
Community Service Unit invite you to celebrate Joy of Giving. Uh and this information is on our website. This is on December 18th. Elks Lodge and the uh holiday uh Essis County holiday food distribution event is on also Thursday
18th uh at uh the Cody Arena. Uh I also seen a comment on Facebook um thanking uh our executive uh Joe D for doing this every year because it does help out a lot of families as all these charitable events do. Uh I also want to mention that the 2025 municipal alliance
volunteers of the year uh our officer Karen Roach Mango has uh won um recognition as a volunteer of the year. Of course, volunteering is is important to every community and the West Orange community has so many dedicated volunteers here. But congratulations to
Officer Karen Roach Mango. Her name is no um no stranger to those of us in in the community here. In closing, I want to mention that uh as we enter into the new year, Revolution New Jersey will be commemorating the 250th anniversary of
uh the Revolutionary War here in New Jersey. And uh it will give each town an opportunity to uh highlight their Revolutionary War history. And you may not think that we have any here in West Orange, but we certainly do have a lot. And uh I'm talking with the library. I'm
going to be giving this presentation, divided loyalties. Right here in West Orange during the American Revolution, we had divid divided loyalties that actually separated family and pitted brother against brother, husband against wife. Uh the dates will be announced and um at this time I'd like to wish happy
holidays to everyone. Uh if that Santa Claus looks familiar, it's a Santa Claus behind town hall. And I also put this on the E sign today in case anyone needs a reminder. So the the the hours and the day may uh the minutes may be off, but
the countdown to near uh 2026 has begun. So with that, I'd like to uh uh introduce my colleague uh from the county, Mr. Anthony Plesi. >> Hi, Anthony Plesi representing County Executive Joe Definchenzo. I just want to thank Joe for giving my report. I was
just going to mention the holiday lights at Turtleback Zoo which continues until January 3rd. Uh open every night from 5:00 to 9:00 except we're closed on uh December 24th, December 25th, and January 1st. And then uh also at Cody up
at Cody Arena during the day on December 18th is the um uh holiday food distribution um which we always do around Thanksgiving and Christmas. Uh, and this one is open to everyone in the public. We had one a few back in
November because of the SNAP disruption that were just for SNAP clients. Uh, but the uh, event on the 18th is for u for everybody, anyone who needs it. Uh, and that starts at 9:00 a.m. That's all I have and all that information is on the Essis County website.
>> Thank you, Mr. Guli. Anybody have questions? >> And most of that information is also on our website as well. >> So, thank you. So, now is the time for public comment. Before we start, I want to confirm that we are all on the same page on how public comment is regulated.
As per our ordinance, we're implementing a slightly different process for public comment that seems to be working well. Instead of me fumbling around with picking speakers, we're letting you self- select by coming to the first row of benches, standing, and waiting in line to be recognized by the chair. Once
you're recognized by the chair, you come to the podium to my right, your left. uh and speak for up to five minutes. Please be concise to speed up the process and don't feel obligated to fill all five minutes. And I also just want to say
I've noticed that we're getting a little slack on on uh speaking just for five minutes. So, I'm going to be pretty much jumping the gun on this. You guys need to be responsible. Finish your speaking in five minutes or I'm going to cut you off.
Um, uh, Council President, uh, before we begin public comment, we do have a public com in part of our public comment segment, we do have a, um, brief public comment presentation from Ozac. Uh, I'd just like to bring them up before you, uh, open the floor to the public for
public comment. Uh, this will be part of public comment, but I like to know if that we can send them up uh, first. >> That that would be fine. And you said them. >> Uh, yes. Uh, >> we're we're not finished yet. Just just a second. I >> But I I will I will recog you can
actually come up and stand and and uh wait to be recognized if you'd like. Uh uh please everyone speak directly into the microphone and as loudly as you feel comfortable. After everyone has commented, we on the deis may respond. >> Uh
>> no no I'm sorry. I lost my place. >> Stay right there. >> Our ordinance uh requires that the speaker to first state their name and address. The ordinance requires conduct by public comment speakers who quote shall at no
time engage in any personally offensive or abusive remarks. The chair shall call any speaker to order who violates any provision of this rule. End quote. Further, it's quote, "any who shall disturb the peace of the township council, make offensive or abusive remarks, or conduct himself or herself
in a boisterous manner while addressing the council shall be forth with barred by the presiding officer from further audience before the council, except that if the speaker shall submit to proper order under these rules, permissions for him or her to continue may be granted by a majority vote of the council." End
quote. I'm a big First Amendment guy and a US Constitution guy. So, I want everybody to have a chance to seek redress from their government. I'm also a big fan of civility. Enough said. Uh council is a place to discuss our differences and often to find compromise
to make West Orange an even better place to live. So, I urge all of us to treat everyone as they would like to be treated. And you can make your point without cursing or insulting anyone. And I and the good sergeant will enforce our
audience ordinance, please. >> Miss Opac, >> just click that. Well, >> which button? >> The one that says arrow. Click here. >> Okay, >> makes sense. Camille de Lorenzo, Warren Road. Thank
you so much. I promise not to be offensive at all. Uh I just want to report on OPAC. Um, I have heard that people don't even know that OPAC exists in West Orange. So, I just wanted to come and speak a little bit about it. Thank you, council president and members
of the council. Thank you for share. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on behalf of Pleasant Valley Productions and to share the exciting work happening at Ospac. For those of you not familiar with Pleasant Valley Productions, we are a 15-year-old nonprofit community
theater. We're an organization founded in West Orange. Oh, look at that. Since 2019, we have been managing the arts programming at the Oscar Schindler Performing Arts Center on Bowlan Drive,
just below Crystal Lake. Pleasant Valley Productions was founded on a simple but powerful mission to bring exceptional, diverse, and accessible programming to the West Orange community at ticket prices families can truly afford. And when I say truly afford, I mean we are
$5, $10, and $15. And organizations of our style are 30,50 and $60. So that's a mission that we are very proud of. Oh, let's slide. This year has been one
of our most exciting environment community centered seasons yet. I'd like to share a few highlights from our 2025 calendar. We planned to kick off the summer with a soldout crowd for Stella Blues Band, but of course the weather had other plans for us, so we rescheduled the concert
for September. Their performance brought together fans, young and old, filling opacy, dancing, and an incredible sense of community. Our summer main stage musical, Jesus Christ Superstar, showcased outstanding local and regional talent. The
production was an artistic highlight of the year, drawing enthusiastic audiences and demonstrating the power of community theater on a professional scale. Our youth performers took center stage with Into the Woods Jr., the culmination of our 2025 youth summer intensive
program. These young artists worked diligently for weeks, guided by our experienced teaching staff, and delivered a performance that was moving, polished, and inspiring. We are very proud of these emerging performers. Next up was a very meaningful event at
Ofac, our original play presentation followed by a live audience talkback. This program gave a platform to new voices and allowed our community to engage directly with playwrights and performers. An experience that deepened conversation around the arts and
storytelling in West Orange. Working in partnership with the West Orange Recreation Department, we co-produced a hugely popular yacht rock concert. It was a perfect blend of great music, summer weather, and township collaboration. Exactly the type of
partnership that makes OPAC a true community hub. Finally, our 18th annual jazz festival continued its tradition of excellence, featuring a lineup of exceptional musicians. The festival drew jazz lovers from across Essex County and beyond.
This event remains one of OPAC's signature contributions to the cultural life of our township. This year, Jazzfest was partially sponsored by WBGO by way of their Jazz for Kids presentation, which was free to all families attending with children.
On behalf of Pleasant Valley Productions, I want to express our sincere gratitude to the Township of West Orange. Thank you for entrusting us with this remarkable venue. We do manage it with care. With your support, OPAC has become not just a stage, but a place
where neighbors gather, artists thrive, and community spirit is strengthened. As we look to the next year, we are preparing for a very special milestone. 2026 marks the 25th anniversary of the Oscar Schindler Performing Arts Center.
A quarter century of concerts, theater festivals, and community events made possible by dedicated leadership, creative partnerships, and the passion of West Orange residents. We look forward to celebrating this landmark year with the programming that honors OPAT's history while setting the stage
for an exciting future. Am I done? Oh, we wow, I missed some slides. Oh. Oh, Laura Bonanti, thank you. Here we go. Thank you again for your continued support and for allowing Pleasant Valley Productions to bring
life, creativity, and community to our beautiful Ospac. We invite you all to join us this summer as we present our eighth season of Odds. Thank you. I know it's strange to talk about outdoor theater when it's 29 degrees, but I'm
not busy right now. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Who's next? Please come forward. >> Time. >> David Wington, nine Green Tree Road. >> Hey, folks. I appreciate the work you
do. My comments here tonight are regarding trees, proper tree planting, and I'm specifically talking about the trees that were recently planted in the past three weeks down on Main Street. Uh we got a bunch of about 40 approximate trees that were planted all along the
main street corridor and um I uh my background just so you know. So who am I who who am I to trust my my judgment? So I uh work at a tree pruning crew supervised by Ruckers Master Gardeners at Brookdale Park. I also do volunteer
work at Greenwood Gardens, also at Van Bleck and a little bit at uh Anderson Park in Montlair. And believe me, this is not rocket science, which really concerns me why no one can plant a tree properly in c in Essis County or West Orange.
>> So I reviewed over half of the trees planted on Main Street >> and only one of them was prop was planted at the proper depth. Every single one of them other than that one was planted too deep. Every other one had mulch touching the
trunk. Any forester, any certified tree expert knows this. This is all guidelines. Arbor Day, Penn State, Ruckers, basic, basic, basic. That means every tree that
is desperately needed on Main Street, if not corrected, is going to struggle, is going to suffer, will probably die prematurely. So rather than us getting the beauty that we deserve, it's going to be work. It's going to be struggle.
And why? This always has to happen. The trees that were planted in the spring, we we bought 150 something trees in here. >> We saw it again with those trees. And I believe both sets of those trees were planted by the same company that we
hired which I believe was Serbo Nursery based on precipitate again and again and again. Why do we have to go through this? I wonder who supervised this. I don't blame the engineer. I blame
who's supposedly supervising this one. >> That's all I got. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Wington. Please. Good evening. John Blandon, Far Show Road. Those of you that know me and you give
me a mic. I love to sing, but I won't do that tonight. Uh was listening to a wonderful song uh while I walked around the lake each day here in the town. And uh it's called Sweep Around Your Own Front Door
Before You Sweep Around Someone Else's. And it goes on some of the lyrics go to the fact of take six months to mind your own business and take six months to leave other people's alone.
And a few weeks ago, one of the residents came uh in regards to one of the council members who have been very outspoken about gas blowers. And I just happened to do my own little research and
happened to come across the same video myself. And it's very hypocritical for any of you to come up here and to say you're against something. and in this case gas blowers and to find
landscapers on your property using gas blowers after you made these outspoken speeches about what it would do to the environment and the animals and the trees and things of that nature to find out that your own landscape is so I was
wondering if I should take that and I don't know if the ordinance was passed and give it to whoever's in charge for that that council member to be fined uh because that person pushed very heavily uh for that to take place is very hypocritical.
The other thing is we want to believe you guys when you say something and the same council person has published two times and I need to know if it's true or not. Um Councilwoman Williams, do you receive a salary
for your nonprofit foundation? And I would like to know that as well because that has been out there. Don't know whether or not it's true or false. And another question, the I guess I call it I guess it's
called the country club that we own here at Rock Spring and I was informed that it's being renovated or remodeled. Um and so if someone can let me know if that is the case, who's paying for these renovations.
um uh is it the taxpayers or if it's someone else? Uh and the last thing which is kind of funny, guys spent a lot of time arguing about things that are just nonrelevant. And in a couple
meetings ago, guys were literally about 45 minutes arguing whether about the Santa Claus was going to land here in a helicopter or not. Um in actually I think it's another town. I'm not sure. There's two sides uh to this golf
course. And but if I came up here and wanted to speak about the person who the kids get out of high school or in schools for two weeks, you would want to tell me that I can't do that. But you could sit in our seats and take up our
time and argue for almost 45 minutes about Santa Claus. And so please be mindful and respect our time. Um, as well as we try to respect the clock for 5 minutes. Blessings to all of you. Enjoy the Advent season and I hope you
have a wonderfully blessed holiday season. >> Thank you, Mr. Biden. Please, Miss Aora, please come on up. >> Good evening, Jennifer Iorio, Belleview Terrace. Uh, good evening everybody. I would like to address the um well, first I would
like to um let you guys know that I cannot stay after this. I'm going to be watching on Zoom for the answers, but I do have some questions. So um on the agenda 286-25, is there clarity on the safe street grant that was recently passed? From my understanding, a study will be conducted
first, but there's a timeline on is there's a timeline on that study. How long is the study expected to take? and especially considering that West Orange is a reasonably sized town and both residents and law enforcement are already very familiar with our major
problem areas. Um, is this grant going to cover county uh county roads in this town? And if so, what's will this initiative in uh include constructing more sidewalks near our schools such as on Gregory Avenue by the school by the
elementary school? Um, many residents, including myself, even though I don't live in that area, are very concerned about the lack of sidewalks in our town, not just on Gregory Avenue. Um, currently, right now, I live off of Mountain, uh,
Mountain Road, and there is an overturned vehicle there, uh, because of the lack of lighting. Um, so I guess the car was going a little bit too fast and it's they're currently trying to um I guess take whoever is out of the vehicle
from there. Um, and there's no sidewalks there. If the sidewalk starts uh stops at Harriet going into Montlair and uh two streets in in Montlair is that that's when it starts the sidewalk again. So I guess there has to be collaboration with Montlair, but I'm not
sure if that grant will cover that. Um, one that's that's it about the agenda, but one last thing I want to end on respectfully. I'd like to um address something that's been bothering me about the council meetings. I'm speaking tonight as a concerned
resident and I want to raise a concern involving the conduct of a member of this town council. Over the past several months, uh, even before former councilwoman Asaret stepped down, I along with many other residents have watched these meetings
both on Zoom and in person. What we have repeatedly seen is one council member berating, belittling and raising their voice not only towards council members but specifically specifically to uh towards council me council member Asaret Gabber Michael and
more recently towards councilwoman Joyce uh Joyce Ruden. Notably, I witnessed hostile behavior towards specific members of the public that sit before us in the council chambers. This behavior goes far beyond maintaining order.
It crosses in into intentionally demeaning, intimidating, and at times openly insulting language. I want to be clear. I have experience working in security for council meetings in other towns. Um, this is not just a common issue. This is
a West Orange issue. This is not like all around town and council meetings. What makes this even more troubling is that respectfully, council member president, council president, you publicly have made statements that you respect your colleagues. At every single council meeting, your behavior clearly
contradicts that claim. Councilwoman Ruin is targeted in meetings after meeting by being interrupted while she's speaking, telling her to state only the facts when she comes prepared every meeting. It is truly disheartening that frank and
frankly concerning that not one council member has said anything to stand up for a fellow council member and neither has anybody in the public. We all see it. We all see this every week. We are witnessing bullying in real time and the silence surrounding it is
un unacceptable. I have witnessed you call out specific people in the audience to scold them and insult them. When residents come up for public comment, you interrupt them, infringing on their five minutes of speaking. Now, let's be clear. If I saw any other council member or anyone being
bullied on a constant basis, I'd be standing here to address it. And I would also be uh I would also be defending you, council president, and anybody else standing up here. When we exit off exit 7 from 280, there's a large sign that said that that reads, "Hate has no has no home here." Yet, this behavior
directly contradicts that message. Hate is not limited to racism. Hate appears in how we speak to one another, how we treat one another, and whether we choose to intimidate or demean each other. Bullying is a form of hate. Disrespect is a form of hate. Council members,
I may not be sitting up there with I may not be sitting up here with you, but I we are wa we are all watching and everybody up here is setting up an example for all of us. The silence is not is is not and the silence in defending your fellow
colleagues makes you just as culpable. When one person up here acts dysfunctional >> time is up. >> It trickles down to the dysfunction of this town. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Please come forward. >> Hello. My name is Gene McCree. I didn't
think I'd be back here again this month, but um I was here last month about the parking issue. >> Excuse me, Miss McCree. Your address, >> your address, >> right? 46 >> 46 Mount Pleasant. Thank you. >> The senior building in front of Rena House. >> Thanks. Um, so last month when I was
here, um, you told us that we could have the spaces underneath the library that were originally for the library that our we would be given them and the signs will be put up. And last week we got a letter from our quote management,
whoever that might be that we were given four spaces. Okay, four spaces is nothing when you live 65 units, 39 spaces. All I'm speaking on behalf advocating for all the residents in my building because
they all asked me how could this happen. I don't have an answer for them. Maybe you have an answer how we only got 39 spaces built in a 65 unit and now we're you told me we could have the spaces under the library and that's four that
are there are not going to slide. They're not even those spaces. They're still the uh municipal government workers are still parking their cars under there. Um, we've had we had a patient who had a park on the other side. She fell. It was dark. She fell
due to her age and her balance. She couldn't get up. She sat there for 20 minutes. Nobody came by. Luckily, a son was visiting mother. He found her. He picked her up. She wasn't badly hurt, but something serious is going to something bad, something serious is
bound to happen, okay? If we don't get something done here to resolve this problem. I know you can't put more spaces where we are, but why can't we have those spaces 11 to 13 spaces that are under the library there? They they can certainly be ours. They why there
were there were the library before. Why can't they be ours now? And why aren't those signs put up that are sitting locked in in still that room? Okay. And the other issue is people are using our parking lot as a cutoff. They come and they go all the way speeding down. come
to the stop sign where it says no left turn and make the illegal left up Mount Pleasant Avenue and one of our tenants with her roller her rollator was crossing from this side to the other side almost got hit by one of these cars every day this is we called the police
and the police said they're going to monitor it but that a sign should be put there at the beginning I don't know who's responsible to make that sign but somebody has to put a sign there it something serious is going to happen and then who's going to assume responsibility. I don't know. So, I am
advocating for these people. I had a park three blocks away the other night. I can walk. I can run. Most of these people can't. These are seniors, you know, 65 and above. >> So, I'm just asking I don't know what
else to do, but I'm asking for your help in this issue. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Jean. question. >> Hello again everyone. Jackie Paresi from 46 Mount Pleasant. Um, I'd like to start off by saying that I have a couple
issues here. Um, I believe I I really do think that the seniors in this town are really uh treated pretty crappy. Uh, very very disrespectful. Um, we in this building particularly uh have nowhere to
go for a gathering of the seniors uh to to go uh someplace. Maybe a room at at the cat center, maybe a room at the at the golf club. Um so we can so we can get them together and we can have a a game a game day. They can come and have
lunch. Uh they can socialize. they can read books and um and and mostly important we can get them out. There are a lot of very isolated people in in there in the the 46 Mount Pleasant and a lot of them are very very very
handicapped. That's another reason why we're very ex uh uh concerned about the parking because you can't have senior citizens with rollers parking around the corner. That is not fair at all and that should have never been approved. That's besides the point. Um, also we
understand that there are um senior programs coming out of the senior department in town. Well, you know, that's all well and good, but if you're a senior and you don't have a computer and if you don't know how to use a computer, how are they supposed to get the message that maybe the cat center or
whomever is having a bingo day? There's no way for them to understand and know that. Now, if you're going to say that that's the that's the um uh concern and that's the responsibility of the property manager or the owner, I I we don't know. But there is no information
at all in our in our building regarding any type of senior citizen uh activities in town. And um I also want to say that um well, that's all I'm going to say. Um, I
I just want to say that that I don't think I don't think you're aware of all the handicapped people there are at 46 Mount Pleasant Avenue. And um they need our help and they need your help. And again, we need to get them socialized.
We need to get them out. Some of the people just literally come out and and sit somewhere. There is nowhere for anyone to sit. We have no benches. We have nothing. And um if that can be arranged, if that can if that can help us. And we besides we could also get the
the senior bus to come on certain days and pick everybody up and and and organize the day of the event at one of the centers so we can get them on the bus and we can we can take them out. And you know something, nobody knows what we're going through to be a senior, especially handicapped until you get
there. >> Trust me. Thank you for your time. Also, one other thing quick. Uh the speeding on Mount Pleasant Avenue is still going on. When I noticed the speeding as bad as it was, and I knew it was in County Road, I personally called up the
sheriff's department and spoke to the sheriff's uh right-hand person. And I explained to him what was happening. And the reason why I to called him was it's a county road. Because what happens is that when you talk to the county road and when you talk to the police department, they switch you back and
forth, back and forth. It's not my fault. It's their fault. Not my back and forth. Okay, fine. He he sent over my message to him and email to the ch to the police right here in town. And I had been in contact with the police officer in the traffic division. I have his
name, but it's it's in my phone. I've had contact with him many, many, many time over and over and over and over again. And this is now December going into January and the horrific speeding on there is still going on. I don't
understand that. I understand people the police car have other places to go. I I get that. But I'm sorry. Look, again, the the elderly people in 46, people coming out of the municipal lot, people coming out of Zoo Hall, it's a very
crowded area and trucks and buses, especially the trucks and buses are coming down there 40, 45 miles an hour. That's a no no. I really hope that that can be addressed. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Please, please. Hey, everybody in line,
you don't have to wait to be called on. In fact, when the person is finished speaking, if you want to step around whatever this structure is here and and pass somewhere between here and there, >> it'll save us a lot of time. So, I appreciate your respectfulness and your
reserve, but we don't need to do this. So, please go ahead. >> Sure. Um Justin Goldsman, Moran Road. Um just a few questions as it relates to agenda items tonight. Um agenda item 20 28625, the Safe Streets for All grant. Um first, awesome job. That's a half
million dollar grant and that should be really commended for getting a half million dollars back to the town. Um I'm really glad that there is an environmental consideration um section in there for in the supplemental documentation. I did want to point out um I'm sure you're aware but just so
that we can collectively and proactively work together um there is a point on page 19 of the terms and conditions in that agreement that says that um all of those materials must be made and procured in America. I'm not sure if that's common to our natural procurement
process, but given that that does shrink the candidacy pool, I want us to start proactively looking at those RFQS and RFPs now because that will limit the potential vendors that we can use. Um, so I think we should get ahead of that um as it's coming out. Um, as it relates
to the always stop agenda item um and just traffic in general, can you explain the notification process that residents receive when a traffic pattern does change in their neighborhood? I had a resident who noticed the traffic pattern changed in their neighborhood. Um,
individuals continuously violated that. That was reported to the town and his response was that it's your job to inform your neighborhood of changes into um, our traffic code. I don't think that our residents should be volunteer deacto PR spokespersons to enforce our laws.
So, I just want to know, are there notifications that go out to residents when, you know, this is no longer a right turn or a left turn? Does someone get informed when those changes happen? Because I think that limits violations that come up and it helps with our
safety. Um, as it relates to 27825, the substance use disorder grant, um, that's really incredible work. Um, and that $25,000 should be absolutely um, applauded and commended. Um, I mean that in all sincerity. Um, so who's tasked
with how that grant will be implemented? Um, how are we following latest trends? For example, recent data comes out that women are more likely to telescope than other indiv. Sorry, telescope is a term that's used to say when your initial substance use, you are more likely to become addicted than your partners are.
Telescopes your projected usage. Um, so how are we staying up to date with trends that will inform us how we can best utilize that data? Um, on a topic that I don't normally talk about as it relates to the West Orange Civilian Complaint Review Board. Um, the
town website says that the committee will have seven members, three appointed by the council and four by the mayor. Um, as according to the website, there are six members listed. So, I just wanted to flag that vacancy either exists or is not publicly listed. Um, but I found that out because I wanted to
know whom I should contact to get in touch with the CCB because there's no generic email that's listed. I know other commissions say email hrc west arens.org or PRC or whatever. Um it says to contact directly the chief of police
um to get in touch with the civilian complaint review board. Um so I do question whether our chief should be fielding questions about what time is the meeting tonight in a very busy schedule. But I also do question whether that the direct reporting mechanism for
supposedly an independent oversight body is directly to the agency tasked with oversight of that body. And I wonder if that does have a chilling effect with how I should be reporting something if I did have that concern. I don't know if I would feel comfortable doing that
directly to the body in which I'm asking to have a complaint about. So I I do want to know um if there is who the appropriate person is to address those concerns because it's not publicly listed. That's me looking through the website not out of anything to have to
report but I do think that if there is a reporting mechanism structure we should have good faith that we can feel confident that goes somewhere that we're not asking someone to investigate themselves. Um wasn't planning to mention PO tonight. um brings me back to time working in in the House of
Representatives, but um I did for the last several months talk about the need for multi-year budget revenue projections. Um PIGO is a great theoretical practice, but without the financial restrictions that surround a PGO theory, it doesn't tend to work. So
unless you can project the needs for those costs multiple years down the road, you can't address the budget deficits that fall in those procurements or in those possible scenarios to be talking about how you're going to pay for them if we don't know what we need to pay for based on multi-year
projections. We can't then say this is how we're going to calculate the PGO mechanisms. Um we also have ordinances that have things to do with tree replacements where we find people less than the tree cost to replace. So, that should be factored into our deficits. Um, shout out to the Downtown Alliance
for a World Cup watch party last week. It was really fun and looking forward to seeing how that comes to fruition. And, um, council members, happy holiday season. I really appreciate it. And next time I will be at this deis, the University of Miami Hurricanes will be champs of uh, football this year. So, thank you,
>> Joy. at Pelock Place. Okay. So, at the last meeting, um the council president asked me to send pictures of the signs in that were west of Rollison. So, I did that so you could
see all of the massive restrictions that are up there, all of the different tools and twists and turns that have been uh you know placed on those 19 blocks. so that the seat hall students uh don't
have the privilege of parking there but have the privilege of parking on the alphabet streets. Um since the parking meeting that took place was not recorded, I thought it was important to come back and give an account on record of what took place. This room was filled
with valley residents that voiced their opinion about the parking in the valley. There was agreement that the permit parking is the way to go. Everyone was intelligent enough to understand that one-way streets would provide more parking spots. However, the residents of
the valley also understood that those spots would be filled by seat and hall students during the day. Jennifer from Rollinsson explained it best. Once it is discovered that even more spots are available in those on those streets in the valley, the students that even
currently park at the Prospect property will begin to park in the valley because there will be more spaces available for them. Why do they need to park at the Prospect property and take a shuttle down, get to school earlier when they can just park blocks away from the
school? those those spots will not be available to residents as the seat and hall students will fill those those spots. The residents of the valley are concerned about traffic patterns as this study specifically focused on parking and not traffic patterns. Half of the
alphabet streets will be forced to exit their blocks into Valley Road and Kingsley. These streets already have significant traffic as they are a route that leads to the entrance on 280 east. Many of us avoid this route at all costs
during our commute because it adds several minutes to our commute at this time. The amount of traffic, and we know that cuz we actually live in the neighborhood. The amount of traffic that we will experience with cars looping around the one-way streets attempting to
go around the block to proceed in their desired direction will also increase. Additional spots will also create more spots for commercial vehicles as well as orange residents that populate our streets in the evening as parking is an
issue in their areas as well. People with driveways are concerned about one-way streets providing parking on both sides. As proven during the pandemic, these residents had trouble exiting their driveways due to the narrow streets. There were either there
was either lack of visibility or lack of room to exit their driveway because of uh cars parked on both sides of the street. So, that's another problem with one-way street, one-way streets and parking on both sides. We would like to say once again for the record, it is not
equitable for the town to create restricted parking on 19 blocks west of Rollison and expect to the seven blocks in east of Rison to be responsible for bearing the burden of Satan Hall student parking. There was much talk about including Satan Hall in the
conversation, but this is not necessary. Satan Hall students and anyone else can park on streets as long as the mayor allows them to. It is up to the mayor and the council to show that they care about the equity of the taxpayers on the alphabet streets. Restrict all of the
parking above and below Rison. Give us our neighborhood back. The only folks here who have an option for parking are the seat and hall students. Those of us without driveway have no options. According to John with digital parking, the permits can be given, but it is up
to the mayor to make the decision to respect and honor the wishes of the residents. There was much said about including a solution that would benefit all stakeholders. This is code for seat and fall. No one has spoken about inconveniencing the 19 blocks with
restricted parking only making our daily lives worse. The administration seems to be set on these one-way streets as I was uh as the um chief proposed that we
should have a threemonth um trial of one-way streets. I responded, "Let's have a three-month trial of permits. How about we do what the residents want?" I'm going to hope that my neighbors >> Excuse me, Miss Bernett. I apologize for interrupting you. Folks, we don't allow
clapping. If you'd like to clap, I'm fine with it. Just please go outside. It delays our meeting. Be please be respectful to the speaker. Please go ahead, Miss Bernett. >> Thank you. Okay, so I'm basically done. I would like the residents from the
valley who are here to please get up and let your voices be heard. We are not one voice, but we are many voices. there. >> Good evening, uh, Council President Koviaak, uh, council members, uh, Madame Mayor, uh, Chief. Uh, my name is, uh,
Kenneth McFerson, uh, of the law firm Gibbons PC, uh, One Gateway Center, uh, Newark, New Jersey. Uh we represent uh West Orange Wellness uh as some of you may know uh which is a New Jersey Cannabis Regulatory Commission and
Township licensed uh class 5 cannabis retail dispensary uh at 26 South Valley Road. Uh it's been successfully open to the public since April of this year. Uh one of a few uh dispensaries in town uh
open this year. uh and West Orange Wellness has provided uh the township with all uh required quarterly revenue and sales data as per the ordinance. Um we you know there's been discussions in
the past as at least uh Councilwoman Castelino might know about amending the cannabis ordinance maybe uh you know maybe one too many times for uh certain people's uh preference. But I think that's the result of uh a process of a
new industry and seeing what works uh what doesn't. Uh we submitted a letter on behalf of West Orange Wellness on November 18th. Uh we're just here uh to myself uh my co-consel uh Ted Flowers
who's a state licensing expert and uh also uh Jim Sherard who's a retired uh state trooper and uh cannabis security consultant uh who also was an investigator uh for the CRC. Uh our letter that we submitted, as I
mentioned, uh requested uh the township council uh to at least consider uh extending the uh operating hours for cannabis dispensaries, which uh currently are limited to uh 8:00 a.m.
through 7:00 p.m. on Sundays, 8:00 a.m. through 8:00 p.m. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays, and 8:00 a.m. through 9:00 p.m. uh Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. Um the reason uh we're asking for that is not because the store is not
doing well. That's not the case. You can talk to Mr. Datiniac about that. He has the uh he has the records. Um the store is growing. It's doing well. Um as you know, I can't speak for the other stores, but when I understand, you know, they're doing well as well. Um you know
this is more in response to uh customer feedback in terms of their hours when they work. Um people work shift work um medical patients uh you know more extended access is really what they've
been asking for directly. Um, and this uh request, you know, per that we're making uh for uh 1000 p.m. uh to be the closing uh date for each day of the week uh is not out of line with um some other
towns, many other towns, in fact. In fact, most towns um including Monontlair uh and Maplewood. Maplewood 1000 p.m. Monontlair uh they are open as late as 1100 p.m. 7 days a week. Um and you know
again that reflects the uh economic uh conditions of what uh customers are looking for. Um you know and really limiting the hours as they are now uh minimizes you know the ability of customers to
access uh the product. um and also minimizes the resulting uh 2% tax revenue paid quarterly to the township by each licensed uh cannabis business. Um for West Orange Wellness, uh if there
were to be a 1000 p.m. uh closing hour, uh the result would be a conservative uh 4% uh annual increase in revenue. um which again the town that would be on top of the 2% the town already gets. Uh finally
um be uh my co-consel Ted Flowers will address this briefly where you know there's a lot of important issues tonight but the uh state cannabis regulations and law uh you know emphasize that cannabis should be
treated in a similar fashion the regulation of alcohol. Um, you can sell alcohol in West Orange till 10 p.m. We're not asking for anything different. The only difference is there's a lot more security at our locations. Um, most
of the orders are online. It's not like we're asking for West Orange Wellness is asking for a flood of customers to come uh in these evening hours. it'll be the same uh you know rate of customers um just a little bit later so that certain
people can come. Um we think it's a win-win. We ask you to consider it not tonight but you know or if you'd like to but your time is up. >> Thank you. >> Oops. >> Thank you, Ken. Uh my name is Ted Flowers. with the law firm Mor Con
Flowers, 40 West Evergreen Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 1 19118. Um, good evening, council president, members of council, your honor. Two lawyers in a row I know is rough, so
I will keep this very brief. Um, I'm here on behalf of West Orange Wellness. I am regulatory compliance council for over two dozen businesses in the state of New Jersey, both medical and adult use. I have clients in multiple states. I've been doing this for about 10 years.
I'm going to address briefly um what the town what the town's role is or what the town's control is of the process and what um the request to extend the hours uh would not interfere or would
not conflict with state regulations. Um, this is my, as I was coming up here today, I realized this was my eighth time presenting in Corner Council, uh, Councilwoman Council Lino, you and I first met. I think it was March 15th, 2022 when I was here on behalf. It was
via Zoom that time. Um, but uh, this is when West Orange Wellness initially presented it application, was uh, graciously selected as one of the applicants. Flash forward March of 2022. They opened in April of 2025. So, it's been a long journey. Uh, I work with a
lot of businesses. As I said, council and the community should be very proud of what you've accomplished. I know it's been a bit of a roller coaster ride, but the efforts that you've put in, it really started to bear fruit and it's a really successful program and West
Orange has become a model for other communities to look at in terms of the thoughtfulness and uh intention or attention you give to um these businesses. I also represent another uh class 5 retailer in West Orange. I'm not
here on their behalf tonight. Um although the message is in harmony. Um as Ken was saying that un under KMA under the regulatory or the law that allowed adult use
there is no set guideline or timeline or restricted hours. Those are left to the municipalities. the state or the state itself and under the act they focus on um security operations who can operate
uh products, branding, marketing, things like that. The towns themselves are controlled or are allowed to control as long as not in conflict with state law how you operate or where you operate uh zoning and the times of operation among
other things. I think what West Orange has done in harmony with what the state law is has actually there's no conflict in in what's been done and I think that's why it's led to a seamless roll out of the program in this town. Um the
request to make a modest adjustment to the hours as Ken was saying is in is uh or comports with what other towns have done and Ken hit the uh alcohol issue so I won't terms of alcohol sales. Uh I will note that some states around the
country do try to mirror their cannabis programs with the uh regulation of alcohol. New Jersey does not do that. So it is is it's not a mirror um reflection. However, a lot of the towns and municipalities in the state of New Jersey have adopted that type of
approach. Um, one last thing, Ken, uh, Mr. McFersonson, uh, has identified several towns and and what their hours are and what their allowances are. And I just wanted to add a few others. Newark has Monday through Thursday until 10:00
p.m. Friday 11 up until 8:00 a.m. to uh 11:00 p.m. Saturday until 11:00 p.m. and Sunday until 11:00 p.m. Bloomfield uh their hours are restricted at to 9:00 p.m. Montlair, as Ken said, is uh open till 11:00 p.m. Elizabeth is open until
their cannabis licensed businesses are open till 10:00 p.m. Maplewood 10 p.m. And East Orange is an 8:00 p.m. uh cap on terms of operation. As I indicated, if West Orange, if the hours were uh
enlarged in in this township, it would not be in conflict with state law. They would still have to operate the same regulatory pattern. They still have to report to council. Um same security, same operations. we just give them a little bit of a a little bit more window
and more competitive um option with uh competing communities. Thank you for your time. I'd like to introduce Jim Sherard who uh is a legend in the industry. >> Good evening, Chief Mayor Council. Um, I
also at 143 Curtis Avenue, Williamstown, which is exit 2 off the turnpike in case you're wondering. So, I'm a retired New Jersey state trooper, 25 years. Uh, after retiring, I went to the CRC as an
investigator. Uh, they needed people to hit the ground running to get uh, operations uh, stores, the first six stores open. Um, I then left to the private industry. Just a quick background, I worked for MSO, which is a multi-state operator. It was the largest
dispensary in the state of New Jersey. I was a armed security person. I was a director security. I became the facility security director and then the uh basically I ran the whole operation for eight years. I do consulting for four or five. I've testified in front of this
board numerous times and several of the clients are West Orange dispensaries. So basically my my job is going to be to I I've spoke with chief I had a very good rapport with Chief Abbott. Um I offer basically they have my cell number. So
if there's any issues with cannabis regulatory security compliance any questions they're feel they're free to just call me and I I try to help them out. uh all my clients are basically when I get brought on board I it's an
open door policy my first call is to the chief because I know it's a concern in in the in the industry in the beginning it's a concern as we see now in 2025 it basically is a highse secure retail
location so um I I spoke with the chief I've met with his uh one of his command staff that's uh Captain Matulla I've met him at the site. We did a walk through. I basically refamiliarized him with the facility. Um, basic security with
24-hour surveillance cameras. CRC has access to the cameras 24/7. We have access control, which means you cannot walk in the building. You have to be buzzed in the building or you have to be carded in the building. The cards also are dual authentication, which means if
someone was to get an employee card on the outside, there's a four-digit code that goes with that and they no one can penetrate the building on the security side because of the dual authentication. That's something that I really push hard for um
with speaking with the chief and basically in regard to extending hours. Uh there's no been no derogatory calls to the site. We've been open since April and it's basically we're good neighbors and it's it's just a high secure retail
location. Um, one of the other things I wanted to bring up uh that was sort of mentioned is the medical side. So, when I first started in the industry, medical was it. There was no adult use. Um, it was very stringent. Medical patients had to go to a doctor. They had to see them
four times in a certain amount of period. They had to buy a license. They had to register with the state. is very very uh cumbersome on the medical patient. Subsequently, the state of New Jersey went to adult use at that point.
Uh from a high of about 140,000 medical patients in the state of New Jersey registered, it has tapered down to about 49 I think today was 49,000 and change. So the reason is because of all those hoops they had to go through and the
adult market is open. So basically the medical patient said, "You know what? I'm not going to go through all the hoops. I'm just going to navigate through the adult use side." So opening for, you know, a modest couple hours longer would would uh be advant
advantage to the medical patients, give them more access to the uh site. And at the end of the day with the site, it's it's highly regulated. It's compliance regulated. All the products in the building are regulated by the CRC.
They're managed by the CRC and they actually can see their inventory live at any time to see what's in the building. That's never been an issue. Uh the facility has security onsite. That will not change. Uh the security in the building and the staff in the building
has been trained personally by me. I have a whole I have about an hour presentation I do with all the members. So basically they get the the protocols of when they leave the facility team you know they walk out you walk in buddy system etc. So, uh, at at the end of the
of the day, it's it's a highly reddit regulated, uh, retail site. And as we see in 2025 with the with the online ordering and the debit systems, the security um, basically the security
issues that were thought to be a problem are non-existent. And and that's it. And if there's any questions to the council, you can always relay through the chief and he has my personal cell phone and he can call me anytime and I'll be feel feel free to answer any questions.
>> Yeah. >> A little shorter. >> Good evening. I'm Fedra Singalis from Essex Terrace in West Orange. >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat your name louder? >> It's Fedra Singalis. >> Okay, thank you. >> Um, so I wanted to reiterate something
that uh earlier speaker brought up, which is the um poor planting of trees in our neighborhood. Um, I've walked around and I've seen uh some pretty bad examples. You guys know that we have a deer
problem. Many of the trees are not protected from deer and so they get rubbed and once the bark is opened up, it's like somebody ripping out your skin and exposing all your inner organs for a tree. You'll also see trees planted um street
trees planted without their root flare showing over staked with plastic guards to in areas where they're shaded. This is on Belgrade terrace where they're shaded over by other trees planted less
than 16 ft away from each other which is what is in your specification. So I don't want to go into all we know there's a problem with tree street trees, right? So trees need their roots most importantly. It's the thing that
you don't see on your tree, right? You see the trunk, you see the leaves, you see the big branches, but what you don't see is the roots. Soon as we stick them in a little hole between a sidewalk and a street, it becomes a problem. That soil's compacted. They have less access to air, to water, to nutrients because
that soil has usually been the top soil's been removed. So, they're struggling. We need to do the very best we can to replace those street trees and make them live. That is what creates property values in our town. That is what creates a desirable
town to live in. It cleans our air, our water. It cools our homes. Uh, in the summer, and we know we are suffering from climate change, it also slows the rain. So, when we have those extreme rain events, we need those large canopy
trees. Um, so we need all these trees. We need them to survive. We have a bid out. I understand uh we just posted a bid for street trees and the gentleman mentioned the ones planted down on Main Street. Um
our our proposal our our bid specs are not written correctly. Um, so I would like to propose that we rewrite our bid specs and also that we consider hiring a licensed tree expert
to supervise the planting to make sure it's done correctly. I think what's happening is when we don't have the bid specs written correctly and we're not enforcing our tree ordinance, we're not enforcing the proper tree planting, no one is
inspecting them, no one is coming back to make sure that they're cared for, those trees are dying. So, we're spending lots and lots of money to replace them over and over again. So when we're going to go and spend $80,000 on trees, we want to make sure that our
taxpayer dollars are used well and we get a tree that lives longer than three years. Right? >> So if you have not received this letter from Jean Epipan, she is a Rucker professor, an expert in
trees. She is a licensed tree expert that is a higher level certification than arborist. She has written out after looking at the bid proposal what she thinks should be in the bid bid proposal. Made recommendations um for
tree species. That's the other thing that's really important here. Um if you uh I'm searching for a metaphor. Sorry I didn't come prepared with metaphors um tonight, but you know if you're a tree and you live in a swampy
wet area and you get planted up slope on mountain one where it's dry and all the water runs off, you're not going to make it very long. If you plant a tree who likes to be under a forest canopy like a red bud who likes a little bit of
afternoon shade and you plant it down on Main Street where it's just blazing sun all day long and it's dry, you're going to suffer. As soon as those trees suffer and they get weak just like our immune system, they get susceptible to diseases and to insects and they're going to die
and then we're going to end up spending more money to replace them. So if you do not have this letter, please I will send it to you digital copy, but please take a read of it. She's also available for consults. We can certainly make a
recommendation for someone to supervise the planting to make sure it gets done correctly. If our own town forester is not able to do that for whatever reason, definitely consider having somebody else do it. It's possible we could even get volunteers to to monitor them, but we we
want that we get those those a bang for our buck. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hello, my name is Mary Brienza. I live on Swain Place in the Valley and I'm here to reiterate the concern about the traffic proposal
and the parking proposal for our neighborhood. Um the general consensus overwhelmingly from the people who were in attendance last week at the presentation um was really that we were absolutely vehemently opposed to the train changing
of traffic patterns, the creation of one-way streets in that neighborhood and the elimination of alternate side of the street parking for all of the reasons that were already stated. does create a problem for people um trying to move in and out of their driveways
and creates further congestion. The problem really does reside with Satan Hall students uh parking in those on those streets and if you if you notice when Satan Hall is not in session the parking problems really are just greatly
reduced. Um, I think that it would be a great idea to just create a uniform policy of traffic rest or parking restrictions, the same that echoes the streets that surround Satan Hall above Rollinsson and create permit parking for
the residents to use and um, also perhaps generate a small bit of revenue for West Orange if that's a concern at all. Um the to the one thing that really sort of um troubled me was that I wouldn't have
known that this proposal was even in motion were it not for the um diligence of a neighbor letting me know. I'm really concerned that the town didn't mail something to all of us who you have our addresses to let us know that this
was happening and so we could respond and also that people were hired to do this study but no one came to the residents to ask our input and what we're observing and what we feel might be best for our
community. Um, and so going forward, I think just I'm just going to say that I know that we in that neighborhood vote for restricted parking, permit parking, and
the enforcement of that restriction. Um, and I'm happy to also say if we need to communicate with um, Satan Hall Prep to implore the administration of Satan Hall Prep to hold their young men to a
certain standard of respect for the community that they will willingly uh, follow the rules that are set forth for our neighborhood so that they can have their parking that's provided by the school and that neighbors can enjoy
the neighborhood um without being in daily competition to park in front of their house or to drive down the street uh to get where they're going without having to deal
with the constant circling of vehicles from students waiting for one more parking spot. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Um, my name is Leo O Sullivan. I live at uh uh 47 Quimby Place. Thank you,
council members. Thank you, uh, Madam President, Madam Mayor. Um, I I'd like to first off just ditto everything she just said. You can carve off a minute for that because she pretty much said most of what I wanted to say, but I'd really want to paint a picture. I've
lived here for 20 years on Quimby Place and a picture of the the the view of the people in the neighborhood, it it seems to me, versus the view of Satan Hall Prep and its and its value to West Orange versus the
value of that neighborhood to West Orange. Um I don't know why that is. I don't know what the the lack of due consideration is about, but to me it's seems fairly clear. Uh I don't know what it was maybe. Well, okay, if let this is a picture first of
when you before the change that's about to come or being proposed uh for traffic changes and and parking. If I come if if to get home now now before any changes happen. If I'm coming from Whole Foods, I bought a gallon of whatever. I'm coming from Whole Foods. I
take 280 East, go up down the hill, come out onto Northfield. Everyone who lives in this neighborhood in the in the alphabet knows how this goes. You can go down toward Main Street, hook a right to go past the fire
station and get in that way. But that's a pile of lights, a bunch of stop signs, and lots of traffic. So, what you'll do is you go up Northfield and you can go up Gregory, but no one's going to do that. So, you cut through what has become now a street at Satan
Prep. is take a left on seat going to seatel prep because that's the only road to get in there is is the entrance way to seat prep which always felt very strange to me but we all do it my wife hates me for doing it and I do it every time I go sleep all prep come out the
bottom the exit ramp for seatol prep at right across from rigs you know left right or straight and then you're home but I noticed that recently I don't know what was year ago or so when they started putting stop signs in around the neighborhood. Now, I was happy about that because there's a lot of kids in
the neighborhood who go to Hazel. Cars go very fast in Rollinsson. So, more stop signs means slower cars. However, the stop signs were three ways around the bottom of the exit ramp for Seedall Prep, which meant
everybody had to stop when cars were coming out of that entrance exit ramp, coming that way on Rollinsson, going that way on Rollinsson. And now and and and I got that and the same thing further down the street. I forget what the name of that damn road is. Uh
further down the street there's another set of stop signs like 40 ft apart this the new stop signs are and it's made everybody mad but I really don't mind because of the the younger kids in the neighborhood are safer that way. But that clearly was those stop signs were
for Satanel prep for um access or you know exit or seatel prep and the new charted thing the you know streets going up streets going down it's very clear that rigs is going down out of it's like an entrance it's like an exit ramp out
of seat hall prep straight across rigs out to 280 or to wherever else it's already hard enough getting into the neighborhood if you make it one way it's going to get even worse. So, let me close by saying my memory of a meeting
that happened I don't know what I can't remember 10 years ago about Rollinsson about having dual parking on Rollinsson. Again, the the idea was that well this is for all of the residents for more parking for the residents. It was very clear to everybody in the room that it was about seat and hall prep, more
parking for seatel prep. Everybody spoke up and said that and asked for permit parking. The council at that time and we also talked about the fact that seatel prep blocked our driveways, threw their breakfast McDonald's trash in our lawn as they got out of their car all the same. The council responded by saying
once again, we hear the spectre of seatel prep being raised. They're not respectful to the community, but we're they're giving we're being g. And they said, well, maybe we should have permit parking. The question of permit parking has been raised before. Maybe we should revisit that. Well, that was a good 10 years ago. Clearly hasn't been
revisited. However, at that meeting, I'm going to make this quick. Mr. Leapor after somebody said we should have permanent parking stood up and said, "Well, if we have permit parking, you know, it's clear that the residents some of the residents sell those permits to Satanol Prep students and how can we
regulate that?" Well, I'm here to say that I'm not here to grift the town to make a few bucks from my driveway or my road. I'm here to respect the neighborhood, which I'm actually moving away from, but this is not about grift. This is about um do do consideration
from the town. Thank you very much. >> Evening everyone on council uh madame mayor and uh sergeant in arms who never gets any credit or stand. Um so my name is Logan Whiteed. I live on hill place about halfway down from
from Joy. I as one parent again ditto ditto ditto. Uh if you look at that parking study and uh it's 127 pages. So can't fault you for not looking at the whole thing but if you look at the parking study specific to the the area
of valley pages 68 to 74 I think it is uh it's very clear where there is permit only parking and not permit only parking. Um and and the second point is there's no significant business district
within walking distance of of the alphabet streets and there's no large apartment complex. Obviously, they're multif family homes and we'll talk about the housing crisis some other time, but but that's increasing in significance, but there's no apartment complex within
about a five or six block walk that would account for the cars parked on our street during the day. >> It's very clear to me that it is for one organization and one organization, Satan Hall Prep. And that's speaking as
someone who has a master's degree from the actual seat hall. All right. So, um I've lived in West Orange for about a little over five and a half years now. My wife and I were lucky enough to buy a house before the interest rates went like that in the
middle of CO. I love it. Uh there was absolutely a significant increase in number of times I have a car with a pirate logo bumper sticker uh parked halfway into my driveway um after the school went back in session full-time.
So uh I was 17 once. I understand that I was not the most worldly person in the world and didn't know my impact upon the world uh as I drove through it probably a little too fast. Uh but uh it's I think it's important that that
be taken into account when determining whether or not we're going to have parking permits, which I'm obviously in favor for, uh or keep things the same, or the one-way streets, which as everyone has said will just only exacerbate our problems as residents, uh
while giving leniency to people who do not reside in the localized area where they're parking. So that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good evening. I'm Marlene Mloud Gaus and I live at one pilot and I'm here to talk
about the oneway parking. Um, I would love to have my neighborhood the way I found it when I came here. I do not want a one-way street on my block because this is going to affect the quality of life for us. We are not able to come out
of our homes if we have parking on two sides of the streets. Um we are very very upset that we weren't included in the planning phase. So now we have to be coming here every every town hall meeting um commenting on what's going
on. We should have been told we should have gotten an opportunity to come and voice our opinions before we got to this. And I'm very very disappointed again because I bought my house a certain way. I love my block and I don't want it to be um interrupted. It's going
to affect the quality of our lives. So please, we do not want any um oneway streets in our neighborhood. Thank you. >> Hello. Uh my name is William Winburn. I live at 11 Quimby with an M place, not
Quimby with an N as it says on my street sign. And now apparently on the interweb, it's Quinnby. And if I have to tell Amazon or whoever I'm ordering from the
internet one more time how to spell my street, are you sure I You didn't mean Quinnby. know I know where I live. I know what it says on my deed. So, if you could please, please look into whatever caused that. It's not
the street sign at the end of the street. It's in the system. So, that would be a good thing. Um, I would like to reiterate everything that the people said about the parking. I pretty much agree with everything that's been said.
It does not affect me. I'm speaking up on behalf of my neighbors. I'd got plenty of off- streetet parking, but I used to live in Athens, Georgia, and people are clever all over the place. And when I used to come home from my job as a newspaper photographer, I'd love to
come home for lunch. And then suddenly I couldn't anymore because the university students had discovered that rather than parking in a satellite lot, they could park in front of my house. And they did that and they made it impossible to come home. But I was very fortunate. My next
door neighbor was married to the city planner and within a matter of weeks we had permit barking and the problem went away. So I'm like for those of us who don't live next door to somebody who's a city
planner, we depend on you to bail us out. So if you could help in this manner, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Love your story. Good evening. My name is Kim Fields Murphy. I live on Quinnby Place and I'll
apologize in advance for a lot of the redundancies that are included in my statement. However, here it is. By now, you should have received the email to which Miss Bernett made reference with pictures of signs restricting parking on 19 blocks
west of Rollinsson. Surely, you can imagine without being told that you're not eliminating a parking problem, you're redistributing the problem and it's going to the area with fewer driveways and off- streetet parking options. As it's been stated, when Satan
Hall Prep is not in session, it is easier for the residents to park. You've also received pictures showing that. It has also been brought to your attention that there are parking restrictions that follow the private school calendar. I
cannot believe that this council is expecting residents to check a private school's calendar to know whether we can park on a on a public street. The money that was spent to do the study that had already been done before could have been spent on the permits we've
been requesting for years. I'm insensed by the insistence of the council to tell my neighbors and me what's best for us as you make decisions that won't affect you because you don't live in the areas
being discussed. We are telling you those decisions will negatively impact us and as it's been stated it will impact our quality of life. It's a little suspect as to why there is such a determination to accommodate visitors
but little respect is shown for the taxpaying residents. Sedan Hall prep students have a dedicated parking lot for their exclusive use that they choose not to use. Their choice should not
diminish our standard of living. I miss uh Councilwoman Castelino mentioned that she'd spoken with people in the neighborhood. So did I. And I don't think they were aware that one-way streets were being proposed when you
spoke to them. I spoke to neighbors also and they were very strongly emphatically against one-way streets. And um I'd like to share that Miss Bernett is not the only resident who has incurred over $1,000 in parking tickets.
Those who attended the special meeting last week were reminded that West Orange High School students who are West Orange residents are not allowed to park to drive um to school and park wherever they want. They are not allowed to inconvenience the residents who live in
close proximity to the high school. They have to park in the designated student parking lot. Yet, private school students who may or may not live in West Orange can park wherever they want. I'm trying to shy away from terms like
racism or discrimination, although that's the way it feels as this council's efforts to accommodate my neighbors persists. The situation also reeks of cronyism as the permits are on streets where friends of council
members and former mayors have lived and may not still live. The sources of campaign count contributions are public record and I'm wondering whether residents are expected to match the contributions made by Satan Hall Prep to
get equal uh consideration. As the council and the mayor continue to defer, disregard, and dismiss the taxpaying residents in favor of private school students, you create an environment that breeds distrust.
I would appreciate it if the council would stop telling me what I need and what will be good for my neighbors and me when we are better suited to tell you what we need and what will be best for us in our neighborhood. Thank you.
>> Good evening. Joseph Panulo Essex Fells. I live within the 200 foot notice area of the West Essex Highlands project. I am the president of We Care. Mr. President, council members, Mayor McCartney. Madame Clerk, Council Samara, welcome.
Mr. Denniaak, Mr. Pissi, Mr. Fagan, how you guys doing? We u are here. I've been here dozens of times over the past couple of years, and I came here to provide a little bit of perspective on where we're at and where we're going. Tomorrow night is planning board meeting
I think 24. We expect public comment to begin. We have presented more experts and more testimony than anybody including me could have imagined when I began coming here to speak before you.
There is uh there is the end of the planning board process probably likely in the beginning of sometime in the first quarter. There are a few meetings left. If public comment concludes, closing arguments will go on. There will be deliberations.
There will be a decision. One way or the other, there will be an appeal. The beginning and the middle of this process, which is to say pre-planning board, get organized, bring the people
together, and formulate a response, is closing. I got a few people here to thank and Karen, your office is one of them because I think I have submitted more Oprah requests in this town in the last few years than anybody and there's been nothing but a state of grace from your office and the people upstairs and
I appreciate that. I will have one more last one for you before we're done. Um but as we approached the end of the process u and we transitioned into the next stage the call to arms to come to meetings to appear to speak to read to
stay current to contribute to be active is about to come to a close when the planning board comes to a conclusion. The next stage of this fight is going to be the legal battle that
leads to the ultimate preservation of this mountain, which is the ultimate goal and has been the mission since day one. So, as we begin to go into a transition stage, we will close at planning board. I encourage everybody
that has a point of view to come out and show up tomorrow evening. I wish I could tell you what time and what time certain that would occur, but that courtesy has not been extended to us after many many requests like this meeting starts at a time and date certain. That one should
too for the public's benefit. Either way, when this comes to a conclusion, there are multiple lines of battle to be fought. There are three appeals of the D permit currently pending at the appellet division in Trenton.
We care is representing condo owners, members of the grand, the Pleasantale Chateau, people that live contiguous to the site that are affected. The Essex Fells Township with the townships of Verona and Roseland are also under separate appeal. The Essex Fells Country
Club, which is in a FEMA flood zone, is under separate appeal. There is currently an action I don't need to get into here. Everybody here knows about it. That will continue. And there's one more that will come when whenever Mount Laurel fourth round here is completed. I will repeat as I have
before this council that this site was not in the third round and is not in the fourth round available, approvable, developable or suitable for the proposed development that was ordered by a court order and the facts that make that a
true statement were not disclosed to that court. They are now in the possession of the planner that uh submitted the fourth round that was adopted at your planning board a few weeks ago. When that process is complete, you'll hear from us again. But
I'm here tonight to allow everyone to understand that in the course of this transition and the battle that it has taken, I have dedicated thousands of hours, the better part of three years of my life, time, money, effort, organizing the state, people in outside this area,
not just in the town surrounding us, in the county and down in Trenton where we're headed. As we move to the next stage, it's going to be a little more difficult. We're a little more involved in keeping people's attention on a target. And the target isn't going to be
a meeting every week. So, I'm going to let everybody here now know that I will be stepping down as president of We Care New Jersey. Rachel Klein, who's been here on the ground and everybody knows her, is going to be taking take stepping into that place. And I am going to get
ahead of the curve into the legal and the preservation and the balance of pressure that needs to be brought to bring this thing to its knees for once and for all. And finally, in closing, you can tell me, Karen, I have time up. >> Your time is up. >> I know. I would just like to publicly
express beauty and thanks to my wife who has tolerated every bit of this and didn't see it coming. Had no idea what it involved. And you >> perhaps you could drag him off of this. I warned him before this meeting that he had to stay within five minutes. Mr. Bern, I really need to I really need to
ask you to thank you. >> Members, everybody, thank you very much. Appreciate it. You'll see me again. >> Uh Rachel Klein, how drive just uh you all know me. Uh Joe's shoes are way are too big for me to fill, but I'm going to try my best um to keep doing what Joe
did and keep the fight up to preserve this forest. Thank you. Happy holidays. >> Thank you. Yeah. Doug Adams, uh, 9 West over and, um, I really appreciated the presentation on the, um, uh, the debt plan. It was very
thorough, and, um, I kind of like all those numbers and data stuff. So, um, thank you very much for, uh, presenting that. Um, and uh I'm also a person that likes to take account for uh the things
that I say. So I want to stand here in front of everybody on the record and say that my Wolverines did not handle their business on Thanksgiving weekend and defeat those Buckeyes. So I have to take account for that. Um, but I I I'm also
here a little bit grieved um to have to address a a situation that I really um hope will get resolved tonight. Um I am very very intentional and people who know me know that I am very intentional
that even when I am dissatisfied with uh the behavior of a person or um uh um disagree even vehematly. Um I work very
diligently to be respectful and to manage my words and my terminology. uh when I speak to or about a person and I've sat here in council um for years off and on and listened to uh residents
come up and be very disparaging, very condescending to council members and to other officials. Um, I've heard um in the last few years council members do the same thing. And I'm I'm deeply grieved uh when that takes place because
everybody uh has a family. Um I don't necessarily know if I know the final answer to the Highlands project, but I know Joe, I know he's a grandfather and he loves his family and um pretty nice guy. And I know one day if I ever get in
trouble and I lose my mind, I'm gonna call his wife up because she knows how to fix them. You know, we're we're all people in when it comes down to it. Um, but I'm very grieved that uh one of our sitting council members in a previous
council context and here recently has uh picked me in particular um to um call out or to say things that I find to be very disparaging. Um, previously when Councilwoman
Williams was on the uh, council and as the council president asked me as a religious leader in the community to do an invocation that several other people had uh, uh, clergy had done. Um, a
resident called in at the time from Zoom um, and said what I did was unamerican and unconstitutional. And one of our council members in their response said that she agreed completely
with everything that that person said. And then the following week when a clergy member, a friend of mine, uh, who happened to be a rabbi did the invocation, she glowingly talked
about how appropriate it was and how on point it was. And I wrote letter to the council with regard to it. Um, but there was no response. And then here recently I shared some
comments and that council person took that moment on record to say that I had my facts incorrect. When I asked her about it, she said she would reach out to me privately and she did. I sincerely hope that she provides more
clarity for me today with the facts of what I said that she felt was in error and not just an elaboration of some incident in town that I was not
even speaking to. But I do think that as leaders, it is our responsibility to set an example of how we engage with people, residents, non-residents,
leaders, youth across the board. And so I do fully expect that either the fact in what I've said and I do have the notes of what I said I have the notes and the video from
previous council meetings to substantiate it will be actually addressed and either you will rec time is up >> or you will identify where I was in error. Thank you. Good evening. Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. So, I didn't plan to speak
tonight, but um I think it's important um to just share a bit. Uh so, I'll begin with um some of the first comments. Um and it's unfortunate that Mr. Bllandon
has left because I might suggest that people in glass houses should not throw stones. Um I will also suggest that while there's um while there's no issue
as someone who runs a nonprofit with accepting a salary from that nonprofit, um I wonder why he would ask that question on the record. Um, Councilwoman Williams, there's no issue if you do take a salary or if you do not. >> Miss Bennett, Miss Bennett, please
address your comments to the to the chair. Please don't address them to any of the other council members, but please go on. >> Um, next, uh, I'd like to discuss the, um, former, um, police chief. Uh, somebody
in the community brought to my attention, sent a photograph of the state of New Jersey, Department of the Treasury, Division of Pensions and Benefits, uh, board list one for 1110 2025. It's the police and fire
retirement system list and number one on the list is James Abbott. Um whose monthly allowance will be 21,170 I think that's 7. Yeah, $178.64. That's a monthly allowance. When I do
the math on that, that amounts to annually $254,14368. Um, council president, uh, I would have wanted to ask Mr. Denniac directly, but I'll ask you and hope that he will respond. >> Thank you. >> Um, as to I know that that is the police
and fire retirement system pension. I would like to know um from this township whether he will also be receiving a public employee retirement system pension and the amount that that will be on a monthly basis because if my math is
correct, he will make more retired from our township than he did while employed. Um I find that to be um quite hypocritical in light of the presentation we had at the very beginning of this meeting around um debt
service, debt plan, what we're going to do because that's not um that's not an isolated instance. That's something that's happened repeatedly in this township. depending on who you are and who you know, you can do quite well in
this town. And we've heard a number of people from the town talk about what their experience is like um by way of parking when we know that there's other parts of well close adjacent neighborhoods that
enjoy permit parking. So why we would treat members of the valley differently than we would treat our neighbors slightly up the hill? I I don't understand that. I also don't understand why
um you know I I was going to ask I was going to ask Mr. Fagan if he'd throw up on the screen again the um photograph of all of the promotions um that occurred in the fire department because one thing jumped out at me. I
don't know if you all saw it. Um, but I just want to uh spend my last minute talking about the fact that the mayor made sure that the first ever Asian officer who was number one on the list to be promoted to captain
was not promoted to captain. And from what I understand, there was one lieutenant position that was not filled. Um, and that number one on the list to be promoted to lieutenant is a black officer.
We are either a township that believes hate has no home here, a township that believes that everyone has the right to enjoy living in this town, or we are a township for a few. And
you know, I would ask you, what are we doing? What are we doing as a township if we let that perpetuate? >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Bennett. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak at public comic
tonight? Please uh come up. Seeing I see somebody standing up in the back here. Are you coming up for public comment? Yes, that's a yes. My name is Evo Gam. I've been living in 47 Pilot Place for about 1997.
So for a long time. And so I'm the grandmother there and uh I've seen a lot of changes and now my husband who is 65 um you know at 65 you don't have the
same patients anymore and every morning he's fighting with those students >> backing um blacking our driveway and looking for trouble. We don't have the energy. We don't even
have the end of money to pay our taxes that's going up and up and open up and up. And now we have to fight with student who doesn't even live in that neighborhood. So please, I'm begging you do something. I have no way to go at my age after 30
almost 30 years in that neighborhood. I cannot take that oneway street. I can't. That's all I have to say. Thank you. >> If anyone else would like to speak at public comic, please come forward. It'll
save us some time. >> Good evening. Uh, my name is Razan Michael. I been living in Queen Place for over 26 years. And like
everybody else, I'm here tonight to defend my neighbors and myself right not to put the uh oneway street. Uh same situation,
cars, traffics and they've been calling names as well. The kids to our kids our fies are not monkey but they've been calling them monkeys. So this is our
right and we pay taxes as everybody lives in West Orange to be treated the same way. You know, even the garbage people have been here to complain about garbage. They've been leaving behind garbage and
they've been throwing the garbage bin left, right? And every 3 months, 6 months, we have to replace our garbage bin. So why we are been treated differently? We all live in West Orange, but up in
West Orange is different. We we are different. Why? I don't know. And our taxes is not low. It's the same. In fact, we pay more taxes down there than the rest of the
town. So, please, you here to serve us. We here to serve our community. So, let's get together and do the right thing. Thank you. >> Is there anyone who else'd like to speak at public comment? Please come forward
now. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Uh I'm going to close public comment at 9:21. Thank you everybody uh for coming and patients stay here and
speak. Do any of my colleagues want to start? Before we start, I I I just want to ask everybody to again As I said before the council of the public comment started, treat each
other like you would like to be treated. This whole focus tonight about motivations and uh discrimination does not help us get to the a factbased
solution to a lot of the issues that you're bringing up. So, and again, I I I I'll publicly apologize to Miss Bennett because I was trying to head off any sort of the the
speaking to specific council people or anybody else up on this deis. It just doesn't have it doesn't help us get to uh a better West Orange. And uh and so I apologize to Miss Bennett. I perhaps
jumped the gun and and I'm sorry, but my my goal was let's keep this uh civil. Let's keep it again treating each other like you would like to be treated and all of the personal stuff
like speaking out from the audience which people know you're not supposed to do. I I'd like to just try to avoid that and focus on what are the facts and what are the solutions. So, please do any of my council members want to >> council president if I may uh just give
uh some advice before uh there's some rebuttal or or or comments to some of the comments um due to the fact that there is a pending land use application. Uh no one should be commenting on that application here
this evening. Uh and I would also uh caution you not to uh that uh no one from the governing body appear at the planning board hearing and and provide comment at that point in time as well. Uh let the board run its course. Uh we
know that there is a history of litigation at various different stages at this point in time. So it's not only the uh consideration of the land use application I'm concerned with, it's also uh the fact that uh there's litigation. Um so uh that was one
comment that I wanted to make. uh in part related to what you had just mentioned. Uh there has been uh some comments uh from the public uh regarding uh the the chief's uh compensation uh or
retirement uh and uh some uh I guess insinuations or or comments with respect to uh the criteria that um was uh utilized uh to make some appointments. We have our labor council here this evening. Uh I believe uh our labor
council should weigh in as to uh whether or not he feels that it's appropriate for there to be any comments from the governing body in that regard as well. I just want to make sure uh that we are honoring all of our obligations for confidentiality.
Um, and uh, I think that we should hear from him as to whether or not he thinks it's permissible or advisable uh, for there to be any sort of uh, reaction or comment to those concerns. Um, so to to that extent uh, Mr. Burker, could you
uh, you you were obviously present for the comments, right? >> Uh, yes. Uh, council. So I I guess there were some comments with respect to compensation retiree benefits for uh the the chief and then there are some
comments about uh the appointment process with respect to some of the other uh members of the uh police department. So if any of that if you have any sort of instruction to give to the governing body in that regard, I think now's the time to do it.
>> Yes. Thank you and good evening council. It's good to see you again. Um, we would recommend that these are personnel items and they shouldn't be discussed in open. I believe we're um scheduled uh some items were moved off the agenda to be able to rice notice uh some of the individuals to be able to discuss this
at a future meeting. Um so we'd recommend discussing that then and not now uh you know an open session. Um and same with regards to um the chief's the former chief's compensation. That's an ongoing issue uh that could lead to litigation and it is a personnel item.
So, we'd recommend not discussing that either in open session. >> Yeah. So, so subject to those that's all I had to to say before there's a response. >> Is there is there anyone who'd like to kick us off here up on the deis?
>> I could go. >> Council. >> Thank you, Council President, and thank you everyone for coming in this this evening. I'm going to start off with the Valley residents because I want to thank them. Um,
I know it's been very painful and long process for you and I I definitely recognize your frustration. Uh, just so you know, I grew up up the hill, my married life. Uh, and for the
past uh, third almost 40 years, I've I've lived down the hill. And there is a difference. You're right. There is a difference in different parts of town. And that's something that uh always fight to correct and to improve.
Uh in regards to why we had dynamic traffic come in, that was they were originally brought in to deal with multiple parking issues. Not they weren't brought in for to determine whether or not you were to have one-way
streets. That was not the intent there. Uh the intent of uh bringing them in was to improve our parking lots, municipal uh throughout the township, um street parking, uh to implement um
pay stations and whatnot. Uh the parking issue in the valley corridor and the uh heights section of town has always been an issue and they were asked to study that too by the administration
and they did and studying obviously they didn't come knock on your door and have conversations with you but they did study your neighborhoods all different times of the day and I I believe for those of you who went to the meeting the meetings the two meetings that they had
in regards to it. Um, they explained that I I'm sorry I couldn't make it last week. I had a death in the family, so I couldn't be there. Um, but I did get feedback. And yeah, it's apparent 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago,
uh, residents do not want the one-way streets even though they'll bring extra parking spots. And um and you know that's that's what you have the right to you know to to determine just like we do with the speed
tables. We take a a survey and we put it out to the community. We've asked that uh neighborhood meeting at Hazel we thought would be more appropriate and that did not happen but they had two meetings here. So, um, again, we can
make recommendations and the administration, you know, they it's it's up to them, uh, how they want to propose it to the to you. In regards to Satan Hall, I personally picked up the phone and called headmaster Gallow
uh, and asked for him to come in for a meeting. He did come in for a meeting with the administration uh last last spring I believe and he needs to come in again. Their enrollment has increased which is why you're seeing extra extra
cars in your area and it's a problem that they have to deal with especially with the students. I I mean that's not appropriate behavior. our police chief, our new chief is here and so he's been um you know listening to everything and he went to the meeting last week and
he's eager to to fix this issue. I was the first one to say with the permits in regards to the other areas of right above you we you know re repeal them bring them you know pass an ordinance that's the fastest fix to this issue and
then you know again you know the cars will park all over the place on once again so you know I know everybody's frustrated making accusations and and you know why things were done I don't know why things were done years ago it was long before any of us were here with
a lot of these ordinances, more recent ordinances. Um, you know, we we we get them, but they're peacemealed in. So, we don't know, you know, the exact premise except for when we ask at the meetings, all most of you who come to the meetings and see um how how we approve them when
they they come. Um but yeah, it we got to get this problem fixed, but you still have the issue in the area with cars that um have the commercial vehicles that have to be, you know, have have to be fixed and stacking issues with people
in their basement and apartments. And um the headmaster did share like that you have students that are paying up to $1,000 for to park in people's driveways for the year. That is insane. So, there's a lot of insanity going around
in your neighborhood and and we got to fix this. I I'm I'm I'm with you. This is just insane. So, um it's got to get done. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming to the meetings and it it
will get fixed. Uh it can't get fixed fast enough and I don't blame you for being aggravated at us because I would be too. And uh we'll keep we're going to have to keep working on that. Uh, next I just want to address the residents um that came in for the trees.
I I appreciate that we have a resol uh the resolution that I was um going to pull so we could discuss 261 this evening. Uh Miss Brill uh she's she uh actually talked to Mr. Pissi was here from the county where we appreciate the
county's um uh I don't want to say pretty much donation of of recognizing we needed trees on Main Street and and being able to place them. It's frustrating of how they were placed. So,
we need to fix that and we'll discuss with the trees. But thank you all for coming in. do recognize that they were not properly planned and I I want to thank Dave because he worked with uh Miss Brill on that and I appreciate his time and dedication to our downtown Alliance.
uh our seniors that came in this evening from uh 46 Mount Pleasant Avenue. I'm going to ask um our our attorney um if he could pull the uh agreement with the outwork group on
that building and if you could review the parking. From what I remember, there were obviously supposed to be x amount of spots and if we're supposed to have signs up, why aren't there signs up? I know there's a bench that's supposed to
be placed. I don't know why that hasn't been placed yet. Um, but I know that they were working on that. In regards to the uh speeding, we talked about at the last meeting that they weren't going past the um speed limit because
unfortunately the speed limit's 40 miles an hour. So, we had requested or I know I requested if we could look into lowering the speed limit. It is a county road. So, Mr. Samar, if you could look into if we're able to because that's right out front here.
>> We can't control the speed limit on county road. I could I could tell you. >> No, but if we could put No, no, I know that we could put in a request to lower it >> to lower it. That's >> right here because it's it's coming on a They're coming downhill.
Yeah. Right. Right out here. Right out Mount Pleasant here. Oh, Mount Pleasant. Yeah. Right here. 46 Mount Pleasant is um the new building that's right across the parking lot here. >> Okay. But we did have an agreement with the redeveloper and so um issues should
be getting addressed. Now in regards to the other issues um hopefully my colleague could speak to them. Uh that's our uh liaison uh with our senior groups. But um I know Miss Van Djk there was a system in place for anyone anyone
who's not you know not not on the computer and doesn't watch all the meetings. I mean, fortunately, years ago, we had channel 36 and 45 and the school district no longer um is broadcasting um of those materials for us where we
had all the flyers on the TV screen, which was great for seniors because they all love to uh watch uh those channels and and watch that, but that's no longer uh in effect anymore. Um and the town didn't have control over that. Uh but um
there is a monthly calendar I believe that Miss Van Dyk has put out that's very colorful and was given to all the buildings. Um so I know they went out. I also know anyone who requests if you have a a resident or a relative in the
township um they will mail all the flyers to that person's home. So if you have somebody that doesn't go on the computer so there are ways and and just call the senior office. So um you know that that building is close to
our you know the whole reason why there is a senior building there is because the health department's right next door. So um I'm going to ask my colleague that she needs to you know see what's going on there in that building cuz I'm
surprised to hear there's so many issues there shouldn't be. Um there also um again I'm going to call myself and talk to Miss Van Djk but um I know the efforts have been made in in the past and you know the information should get
out there. So um in regards to the attorneys who came in advocating to expand hours for our cannabis locations. Yes, it's true that there hasn't been any issues. They've been all up and running. they've been,
you know, all in compliance and all has been going well so far, but it's it's not even a year yet. Number one, um number two, uh we are very thoughtful with the task force and the council at the time in making those hours. Uh I'm
not opposed to to um lessening time, but not at this point in time. I think we need some more time under our belt because once you do for one location, you'd have to it would it would expand to all the locations and the other
locations border residential uh properties. So again, we'd have to do it townwide and I don't think that would work um right now and I think we should um wait to see give it a year. This was
very thoughtful process with a lot of different folks on the committee and uh with different expertises and I think we should uh wait at least for a little bit of time before we you know go talking about expanding hours
and um but not opposed to it in the in the future. But I think we need to give it some time. As I mentioned earlier, as far as the the um percentage and the income coming back to us, it's been minimal even with the success of the
businesses. So um that's not such as a sales pitch for for myself. My issue has always been the quality of life for our residents and the balance. So where I've always been opposed, uh I did support
them. uh with these stipulations because we have to have that balance supporting our business owners and our uh quality of life for our residents. Um Camille, uh thank you for coming in and for all your hard work uh with Pleasant Valley
Productions, the team, the volunteers. Uh you all been amazing of what you have um given to our community. Appreciate that. Um, Miss Oreo mentioned safe street grants. That's 286 and we could talk about that
then our our um director is here and uh that is going to give great opportunity I believe for the Gregory section. Uh, let's see. I talked about our seniors. And last but not least, we didn't give
our um we didn't do our liaison announcements. I just want to publicly thank um all the volunteers that came out from the downtown alliance uh to help us with our holiday openhouse this
weekend. It was amazing event. A lot of time was given. uh Miss Bil, Miss McCellbell and their team. And you know, we had the junior ROC students from the high school, principal uh Deo and her staff uh with food services. Oh, there
it is. It was amazing. Hundreds and hundreds of families came in and it it's it's just this is what we're about, folks. You know, you you talk about the diversity, you talk about the caring,
the giving, working Washington PTA, just amazing with the gingerbread house and what we were able to give these families. Families come in every year now. We've been doing this for this breakfast for about seven years now. And this is their thing. I mean, their kids
are like even older teenagers and they're coming in with matching outfits with their parents and getting that Christmas card. for some families a thank you to Benji's for their Christmas cards. Um because this is the only you know this is the only and it's all free
like it's all donations and a Heavenly Joy photo booth came we had them this year and again it was great and and to top it off the tree lighting with the recreation department. It's what we do here. And and so all these other issues and all of you coming down and being
frustrated in town, we got to work them out for you because this is what our community is about and and this is what we have to get to. You shouldn't have to be spending your time here with us every meeting. It it shouldn't be and we have to do we have to do better. And just one
last thank you to the friends of the West Orange Public Library, all their hard work, volunteers, Jerry Sweeney, Robin Rockman, Michelle Martin, and Avana Shrianka for this weekend. Uh, and everybody who came in that donated books and bought books this weekend. I think
they final numbers aren't there. There's a couple thousand dollars that will again go back to uh to get uh for some needs that we have at our library. So, thank you everyone for coming in and thank you council president. I know it's up to law. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Anybody else
like to speak? Councilwoman Williams, please. >> Thank you, Council President. Um, just thank Councilwoman here. >> Thank you. Um, just wanted to thank all of our residents for coming out this evening, a very cold, blistering evening
so that your voices can be heard. Um certainly this is more than enough times for us to understand the frustrations um from the Valerie Alphabet Street uh all those residents. Nine of you were here today. Many more of you were here um when we had the community traffic update
um last Monday. Um we're listening. We're hearing at least those who are sitting at the deis um and certainly the mayor and the administration is listening as well. Um, I would like to say that I also agree um that we should
listen and while the traffic study came out to make recommendations and suggestions on what would be beneficial to the community, none of those decisions are etched in stone, um, this is an opportunity for us to actually create a plan that is going to be
suitable for not just the homeowners um, but all of us, including including the students at Satan Hall. Um, I'm certainly um concerned that there has been a tremendous amount of um
insulence, if you will, from the students. We understand they're young, but there is no excuse for some of their um behavior, and we do need to work with um the Satan Hall Prep community and make sure the information is communicated to them. Um, so if there's
reprimand necessary for their students or anything necessary uh to change their behavior and parking in the community, it can certainly be addressed. Um, as far as trees and planting trees on Main Street and Bgrade Terrace, um, thank you so much for those who are bringing it to
our attention, um, that the trees are not being planted properly and I'm certain that the administration will look to rectify those, uh, plantings as soon as possible. For the seniors, um, I am going to disagree that, um, we do
take great care of our seniors. we can do a tremendously better job of communicating to those who may not be um as computer savvy. Um so again, just looking at ways where we can make sure um we work with the administration. Um
but as my colleague said, uh Laura Van Djk and her office um they have a very rigorous uh senior schedule of activities in various locations throughout the town. Um we just have to make sure that people do know about them. Um, as far as uh the ordinance
27825 um for the municipal alliance, um that is one of the uh commission's boards where I serve as the liaison. Uh they do meet tomorrow at 3 p.m. That is an open public meeting. And the purpose of the
municipal alliance is so that we can coordinate um services um and combat drug abuse in our community. And so that grant um is uh going to be discussed tomorrow and a a plan to identify how we
can best uh combat those issues. Um, also wanted to u thank Ospac um for their um and Pleasant Valley U Productions for making sure the arts are a valuable um
consideration in our community. Um it's very sensitive understanding that this particular council removed from the budget the stipen um that supported the um arts center gallery um right now they're struggling to identify how they're going to continue to survive in
that location um without that uh $25,000 subsidy from the community um creating and and sustaining the arts is viable to all communities. So, also just wanted um as far as liaison announcements and just an update on different things that have
been done. Um since we last met um this morning at 8 a.m. I attended the West Orange Chamber of Commerce board meeting to continue strengthening relationships between our township and local businesses. Um they will be having their holiday mixer hosted uh at McLoon's Boat
House on December 16th from 5:30 to 7:30. The event is free for all chamber members and each member is invited to bring one prospective member at no charge and the mixer is sponsored by two cents which is a new um business that just joined. Um it's a great opportunity
to network, build relationships and celebrate the season while talking about how we can make West Orange an even better place um to do business. And I think that would be an appropriate time to also talk about the cannabis extension of the hours. Um, the cannabis
industry is new to West Orange and the state of New Jersey. Um, and I do strongly support all of our small businesses and I do think before we make a decision um to extend those hours, if that is the pleasure of the council, um, that certainly we are clear that that
extension would be townwide, not just to any one particular entity. Um, that was a discussion. I supported um, longer hours when we were identifying the times. Um but again we had to compromise and and do what the majority was going
to support. Um but I do believe that at this point um we should bring all of our cannabis entities in have a roundt discussion with them understand how their business um is functioning. What would be some things where the township
could address um changes to support um their operations. And again, this is a highly um regulated business um to say that it if it is located in a residential community um that we might need to be mindful or watch. We have um
liquor stores located in residential communities as well and it is a less regulated uh entity. Um, so again, I I just think that before we make those decisions and and and in decisions that impact our small businesses, we have to
get those business owners at the table. Um, that's the same um decision-making process that we're listening to our residents from the Valley say that they were not contacted. Um, their opinions were not valued. And again, if we want to make uh West Orange a better
community for all of us, um, we have to bring everybody to the table and let their voices be heard. Um I also want to share an important update about the West Orange Art Center Gallery. Um again it is the anchor in the valley providing exhibits, performances, workshops and opportunities for local artists and
students to showcase their work. Um again we launched a fundraising campaign um in December so that we can find this the funds to stay in the location um that the township has supported for the last 10 years. Um we're very excited
about our next exhibit. It is going to be um an exhibit showcasing and highlighting the work um of students from the sports media group um from West Orange High School. So, we're looking forward to their January reception. We haven't identified a date as yet, but
many of the neighbors touring that exhibit um which will highlight um our high school and all of their sports media um activities. uh past se several days, many holiday events across town. Certainly the community toy drive. Thank you to Ron
Charles um who hosted the community toy toy drive at the Highline Pavilion that is in um conjunction with the county as well as the many of the students at the high school, the cheerleading squad and other groups. And it was very very well
attended. um also attended the toy drive hosted by the Essex County Democratic Committee at Nenina's in the Park. Um of course the downtown Alliance holiday open house on Saturday, narrated two trolley rides and attended the Christmas tree lighting at the town hall. I have
to tell you the trolley rides for me are also a highlight of that event. um just going through town and identifying and and sharing um with our residents some of the highlight uh highlights of our community is um simply a tremendous joy. And then on Friday evening, I attended
the promotion ceremonies for the West Orange Police Department um celebrating the men and women who serve and protect our community. Um, I've also spoken to Chief um and just discussed some of the concerns um with making sure diversity
is constant in our uh first responders, police and fire departments. And um we did go through the chart uh the organization chart um and I will give him an opportunity to share um but we do have an an extremely diverse u police
department. Always you can do better. Always you can do better. Um that's one of the reasons why we changed the uh opportunity for entry um level um officers to come in with the alternative um opportunities, not just going from a
civil service list. Um so very excited and pleased to have been a part of that opportunity expansion. Um and then of course um you know with the uh promotions that we saw um promotions at the at the civil service level are done
by testing um so again the administration or the chief um can talk about um the civil service process um for promotions. um also participated in two tree ordinance review sessions with our legal department, township forester and business administrator um so that we
can review and present a refined tree ordinance protects our environments, respects our property owners and reflects community feedback while keeping us from potential legal liability. Um and then of course the parking and traffic study um last week
um responded to several com community and constituent concerns. Um wildlife concerns, small business closings, health concerns and buildings, the use of open space funds to purchase residential properties, the need for more affordable senior housing, and then
locating historical information that is no longer archived on the township website. Um these are just a few of the inquiries from residents that I responded to um either by via email or telephone. Um and that includes my update on some of the things that I've
done since the last council meeting. Um we do a lot in between the the meetings and I just wanted to share that with our community. Um and then of course wish all of our West Orange residents a merry Christmas, happy new year, happy holidays, happy Quanza um as well as um
there is Hanukkah. Happy Hanukkah. Thank you. Thank you very much, Council President. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Who would like to go next? >> Want me to go? >> Okay. >> Yeah, I'll go ahead. >> Thank you. >> Um I just want to say thank you to Camille, you know, as a member of your
Ozek board. I so appreciate everything you you do and so do our seniors. Um you know I wasn't able to attend a lot of the things you did last at the last season because of my back when I fell and I was out of commission for a while but the seniors were all calling me.
They were saying why aren't we getting the bus to Ozac and I promised them for the next season we will be seeing a lot more and thank you for all you do and making that available for them. Um, staying on the seniors issues, I want to
um talk a little bit about the parking um that that G Janine McCree has brought up. I don't know all of the particulars about the spaces. It is unconscionable
that you know that building was built with only 39 spaces for 65 seniors. I have mentioned it at the planning board referenced it and our planning you know our planning when we do these projects needs to be better and needs to take into account the real needs of the
people who will be living there. So I'll ask after I'm finished to maybe our administration could address what's going on with those parking spots. Um but Jackie Paresi too, thank you for coming over and all of all of your friends at 46 Mount Pleasant. Um I do
hear you. Um the seniors are isolated. You are absolutely right. Our seniors need more activity. In fact, they all want a senior ser a senior center just like every one of our surrounding townships have so that they could come
and have lunch with a friend. And um we really need to do that. We need to open up that cat center or somewhere in Rock Spring, you're right, would be a beautiful spot. Um, but we really need to create a space for our seniors at least for a few hours a day for lunch.
And our older adults advisory board has been doing just that. We have put together business plans for so many programs that would cost the the township nothing. We've got volunteers who would run them. We just really need to get together with the administration
and help them to understand that our seniors need somewhere that is open to them a few hours a day so that they can have lunch with a friend and some basic programming. And but I want to thank Laura Van Djk and Noelia who are listening. They are listening to us and
just this Sunday created took one of our suggestions. We had researched historic homes and a historic home tour program and they found that the county was doing one and they said why not hook on to the county and they did. They got I think it
was 30 35 seniors. I wasn't able to attend but I heard Noelia did a fabulous job and we need to continue to help them understand exactly what we need. You know, I've been working on senior issues now for a decade. And the last research
survey that we did that Councilwoman Castelino was instrumental in putting together with us and working on, there were three things that were identified. The top three things from that survey were programming and senior activities
number one, transportation was number two, and you're right, communications was number three. And uh though we do put out a little bit of a brochure, it doesn't reflect all of the opportunities that are out there if you're not online
and you don't get Laura's um emails. So, we need to figure out a better way to deliver that information to you. And I will work on that with our older adults advisory board. I'll also reach out to Laura Van Djk and thank her for um for Sunday and uh see what we can do about
getting some flyers maybe in some of these senior buildings. I know she does try to put them in some buildings. Uh the people who came out on the trees, David Mat and Minton and uh Lee, I am so
impressed with the volume of knowledge that we have in this community. And I have been saying since the day I sat in this seat that we have to start taking advantage of all of the expertise we have here in our township. And I do
think I'd love to see um the uh the way the you think bid specs should be written. I I think that's really critical. I know I was in the telecommunications industry. I was a business consultant and the way you write a bid spec often dictates who will
apply or who will answer it. Um, and if our we if our licensed tree expert that we have is not able to monitor the trees that are being planted, we need to make sure someone is and um I will talk to um
our per our tree person uh and see if we can follow up and and do some do a little bit better with the trees. I'm going to try to be brief. Um Justin and uh Jen, I know you were interested in this the grant, the safe street grant. Thank you for bringing
everything up. Uh I will Zbeth will probably talk about that when we get to it. Um the PGO um that Justin referenced that he worked on. He's absolutely right, which is a
the reason we need those income and expense reports from Rock Spring and other properties that we owned to be able to try to figure out our real costs and the revenues that we can generate from them. The uh people who all came out, all of my friends,
uh down on the alphabet streets, um again, you're right on the money, Joy. your summary of the meeting was right on target. Uh thank you so much for sharing that with us so that people really understand what is happening there. Um I
I remember you saying there's not a one-sizefits-all and you are absolutely right. That's what we try often do in government. We come up with one solution and assume that we're going to be able to slap it around everywhere. But that's not the case. We need to look very individually at what's happening in each
of these neighborhoods. And I think um the fact that the traffic patterns were not really considered is a testament to why we need to be actively listening to our residents. You know, the traffic patterns in that area are critic need to be looked at. They're critical to
whatever success we will have with whatever we do there. And the resident input too should be should have been considered in the beginning. They are. We are listening to you now and I will advocate as strongly as I can for the permit parking.
Um Joe Panulo, thank you for your advocacy. Pastor Adams, again, thank you for always sharing your concerns. As I mentioned to you in our recent conversation uh about the litigation, so much is nuanced. So much um we cannot share. But
uh my reference was to the focus of that litigation that was narrow and should have been a slam dunk. Uh the cannabis uh everyone who came out on cannabis, I have to say I completely agree with uh Councilwoman Castelino. She sat on that
board. We've had a lot of discussions about it and um we do need to be very careful. I think the the decisions we made were right for our community regardless of what the state does or regardless of what other communities are
doing. Um we we have a situation in our community where so many of our businesses are backed up against residential homes. So we may we need to carefully watch what's going on for a little bit before we um come up with a solution. And again can't be a
one-sizefits-all. Uh the holiday house too. who I want to just say thank everyone was fabulous. I got so many pictures with Santa with my students from Washington School and it was just a joy and I know how important it is to that community. So if we could
during this holiday season focus on kindness and collaboratively coming up with finding solutions to our many problems, I will be so happy in the new year. Thank you all for coming and we do listen. I am actively listening to each and every one of you.
I'm done. >> Okay. >> Counciloman Ruden, please. Sure. Um, thank you everybody for coming and I know it's been a long night. It's almost 10 and we haven't even started with our meeting. So, um the first thing is um in regard to the parking permits, we had
really a full house here last week when there was the second presentation or open house for the residents so that the residents who live below Rollinsson could be heard and they were heard. Um
the the um traffic engineer who was at the um presentation who presented to everybody said, "We can do this. We can not give you one-way streets and we can give you permits.
How can this happen? It is up to the mayor. Unfortunately, it is not up to the council. Most of us here are very very favorable to the issues that the concerns that you have and how to how to
address them. We don't have to worry about seat and hold behavior. We just give you the permits that you need and the pollution and the garbage in your neighborhood will stop. It's just that simple. There was not a study done as
far as I know that really assessed this area and this area needs to be needed to have been assessed. You were brought to the discussion after the report was done and um unfortunately that is the way a lot of things happen and now your voice
has been heard and I certainly hear you and this is really straight up to the decision of the administration. If the administration says that you can have permits and and don't have to have one-way streets, I think that's the way
it should go. It's been very unfair that your neighborhood has been so overburdened when 19 other streets have parking restrictions forcing the Satan Hall students to park in front of your house and block your your driveways. So,
um I don't think we need to do any more talking about it. It's just as simple as what is the next step and will the mayor and the administration give us an ordinance which allows the the the um considerations that that you
you want. I will continue to fight for everything that you are um requesting. Um, as for the trees, uh, thank you Dave and thank you Fedra for coming out. Um,
it's really the points that you raise are very relevant because we have a contract in front of us tonight authoring um, authorizing more expenditure to uh, Serbo Nursery for planting for a
tree contract in our town. And we have seen over and over and over that apparently this vendor does not know how to p plant trees. correctly and needs oversight. So, um I I think we should pull this and we and get back to the drawing board. We need to spend our
money wisely. We're talking about authorizing another 72,000 plus another 12 tonight for this same vendor. And I think we need to really either add very clear conditions on this contract or pull the contract completely. When we
spend your money, we should spend it well. The trees should be appropriate to the area and they should be planted in a way that will foster their development. Um, as for some of the questions that Jennifer Ryorio um asked on the grant
for the street um the safe streets, I hope that our engineer will be as answering some of those questions tonight. um she wanted to know um will the grant cover county roads and will the county roads also be paying will the
county also be paying for sidewalks. I also want to thank Jennifer on a personal note for what she said about me personally and what she's witnessed. And I want to thank so many people um who are who have reached out to me after many council meetings after witnessing
what has gone on and just to check in on me and say am I am I okay? And I'm okay. I know why I'm here. Um I'm I'm here to do to get the work done. I'm here to correct the injustices that that are being presented to us that we all see.
I'm here to promote transparency and accountability and to improve all of our lives. Um, it's not the perfect person to quote, but I've always been a big admirer of of Elellanena Roosevelt and she said that nobody can um take away
make you feel inferior without your consent. So, I try to remember that and we are all here for a bigger purpose. Um, for the residents of of 46 Mount Pleasant, thank you and I'm so sorry that you have to keep coming out. Again, this is a decision that is strictly in
the hands of the administration. How our library was taken away from the downtown area and a senior building was built with with far too few um parking spaces is just inconceivable. And now we're talking about space reortionment and
moving um moving an engineering department to the building that is attached to the senior building and those people are then going to be parking behind the the the um old library. That just doesn't seem fair. Um
we really need to take care of our senior community. There should be a high priority in making sure that there is some other parking solution for the seniors who moved into that building expecting to be able to walk safely to
their apartments. Um for as for extending the hours of the dispensary, this is the first time I'm I'm hearing that. I think that that's something that will have to be presented to us and and a discussion on that. And
um finally um I hope I'm not I hope I'm not missing anybody's um comments, but finally um I do have a question for our attorney because there were some very very relevant and important issues that were
raised by um Michaela Bennett and um I am really actually quite um confused about your request that we not openly discuss compensation. and a retirement payout. And I'd like to
request that you provide an example of why you consider this a personnel issue when this is strictly an issue of compensation that we as a board really need to understand before before we um
pay the bills. Um, I'm also concerned that there were in this current year 18 promotions in our police force for only five retirements. Which means that again
we are compounding the amount of money that we are spending for rank and file officers who are now who are now like captains and lieutenants and sergeants and deputies and that all adds to our
our debt because we are now increasing the salaries for for 18 18 individuals and I'd really like to understand whether whether or not that it how those promotions came about and um you know
frankly it's it's costing the township more money and was this required by civil service law or was it required by union contracts? I really don't understand and I really don't understand um the request not to be able to talk
about compensation to our township employees. I'm also really not clear on what litigation you're referring to when you say don't speak about West Essex Highlands. As far as I know, West Essex Highlands um is coming before the
planning board possibly for um you know, for public comment for sure and possibly for a vote tomorrow night. It's a very very important application that that our community has been watching and I'm really not sure um why there was the
request not to speak about that but in some I would just like to um thank um thank um Joe Punula for his incredible energy, activism, devotion, passion and
for always informing us about what is happening. And I'd like to thank thank and wish Rachel fine good luck in taking over the reigns. Thank you. >> Thank you president. Can I just make one addition of the comments?
>> Uh sure. >> Thank you, Council President. >> Um just wanted to respond to the question in the inquiry um that I forgot to respond to um which was do I take a salary from my foundation? The answer is no. Um the foundation was founded in
2023 and I have never received a salary from that entity. >> So that's for the public's uh edification. >> Thank you. >> Could could I just ask that uh we move on from this issue? >> Councilwoman Ruden, if you have evidence
to back up what you're saying, could you please just present it at the next council meeting unless you have it here today? >> I have it right now. Um, all of us as council people have to fill in ethics disclosure forms. And on those ethics disclosure forms, we have to list every
source of income that we have that is over $2,000. Ms. Williams has has reported that she has earned over $2,000, it may be more, from WOSAC, the charity that she was asked about. So, I have that in writing. It is on the
internet. It is in the financial disclosure form. Anybody can go online tonight and see that she did disclose earnings from it. Thank you. >> So again, let's be transparent and get your information and your facts correct. >> There are two there are two entities
that I have had. The Western Stop Suicide Advocacy Coalition and you're correct, but it's not a foundation. It's an LLC. So when you speak to facts, if you want to pull my 990 report, which is public knowledge, you can get the
figures for the WSAC Foundation, not the LLC. Thank you. >> You reported this on your ethics disclosure and that is a source of income. >> LLC, not the foundation. So again, they're two separate entities. You should be
able to clarify, you're an intelligent woman, the difference between an LLC and a foundation. >> Okay. Can can we please move on? Thank you. >> Uh I just want to bring up a few things in in my response just to make sure that
we cover them uh at some point this evening. Uh a speaker asked if there are any plans to renovate Rock Spring. I just want to make sure that that is addressed. Uh, one of the questions of Miss Ioria was how long the study on
resolution 286 is going to take and also whether any of the construction of the sidewalks are going to be near schools. Um there was some discussion earlier tonight about asking our town attorney to review the
uh agreement with uh 46 Mount Pleasant Avenue. And I also want to just ask because this is this is a a fairly regular instance where residents are coming up to complain to us exactly
uh what's going on to address their issues. And I'd like to just find out perhaps by the next at the next council meeting what we're doing to try to address uh address their concerns. Uh Mr. Goldsman asked about the
um way to contact the citizens uh review board. Uh he made a pretty good point about that. I just want to make sure uh that we address that. If not tonight, then at the next meeting as to whether we think we need to have an alternate
way of trying to uh communicate with with the board. Um, so I I mentioned Ms. Iorio. I I was hoping for constructive criticism, and of course there was some there next to the ugliness that would at least
recognize the issues any council president up here faces. lengthy meetings that all too frequently run five hours or more into the early hours of the next day, making it difficult for many residents to follow and advise their government. And where council
members spend significant time speaking on issues that don't address the township's business on the agenda and the issues that we can and should address at the meeting. Not to mention, as we've seen tonight, people who willfully disrespect others by delaying
the meetings by their misbehavior. I too was disheartened, as Miss Aorio mentioned, by her inflammatory motivation-based opinion, using such inappropriate terms as bullying in real
time and hate multiple times as her opinion of my motivations. It was disheartening and disappointing. I reject her accusations of my motivations as based in hate, as you said, not just once, but multiple times,
and as bullying. Those comments are disgraceful. I guarantee you, I am not up here because of hate, and there's nothing I do up here because of hate. You criticize the rest of the council that no one on the council has stood up to my alleged bullying. Perhaps you
might consider that that's because they understand what I'm trying to do and agree with my goals and also advise me outside of a council meeting on how to better reach those goals. And I think they agree with it and avoid
making up motivations that of course are almost impossible to know what's in someone else's heart. As I said before, public comment, I ask that they That's pretty dramatic. >> Thank God there was no order.
>> As I said before public comment, I asked speakers to treat others as they want to be treated. I certainly hope that you don't want others to treat you the way you spoke to this council and to me, focusing on fantasies of motivation to make whatever point you were really
trying to make. But it does lead me to speak in my final regular meeting as council president to briefly mention a few council achievements this year. We settled litigation that the mayor filed against the council more than two years ago. It ended a drain on resources of
our time, our focus, and legal fees. We negotiated to get top-notch a new town attorney and assistant town attorney. and we've created the opportunity to rebuild the mayor council relationship and to collaborate going forward.
We've also survived a lengthy budget process. The good news to many taxpayers uh that is that we actually cut too much and the state had us put some of that money back, but we still reduced the proposed 6% plus property tax increase
in the mayor's proposed budget. We cut that by 80% and reduced the budget by well over $3 million. We employed a revitalized citizens budget advisory board much more directly involved in development of the budget
and gave us a lot of good ideas and bodess well for the 2026 process. And we clearly identified we need a new process that's more efficient and much less time consuming. And that's what we're going to go after. And then, as you saw tonight, we've gotten started and gotten well down the
road on a debt management plan to remediate the heavy burden that our recent borrowing has placed on taxpayers. I do just before I finish, I want to just note two recent passings that are impacting our community. Uh,
Mr. Peter F. Smaldo uh recently passed. He uh is the father of business administrator Peter Smaldo Jr. and the grandfather of West Orange police officer Connor Smaldo. He was a West Orange resident and a longtime teacher
in West Orange public schools. There may be people watching this video who had him as a teacher. Uh the other person who passed was Jim Cunningham who su who served for more than two decades in our public works and our parks and recreation department. he left us to go
become the director of community services for Verona Township uh from 2007 to 2023. And uh by all uh all that I've heard, both of them were outstanding employees, outstanding
community members, and outstanding people. So, please uh keep them and their families in your prayers. I I don't like the moments of silence. I'm sorry. But uh anyway, so we've now
finished our response to public comment. I don't know if anybody else wants to respond to any of the questions that were asked that are primarily administration issues. Yeah, I just mad want to let you know that um the CCB roster is going to be updated in 2026
with the newly appointed captain SERS on January 14th. >> Great. Thank you very much. Is there anything else we want to address now? I I know the town engineer will probably look at some stuff a little bit farther into the meeting, but Mr. Tiniac. >> Sure, Council President, and and thank
you for the kind words for Mr. SMGO's family and for Mr. Cunningham's family. and um thank you for your your term of service as council president. Probably going to get another special meeting out of you, but uh thank you for all that you've done this year.
>> Um to address some of the the questions and comments um uh we will speak to Montenior Kelly, headmaster Gallo and the dean of men, Mr. Hollyy uh and let them know that, you know, we've had
multiple meetings where we've had residents talk about um some potential bad behavior from their students and that needs to be made known to them. Um and I know that they brought headmaster Gallow in last year, but we're going to
keep communicating with them and hopefully uh get rid of some of the bad behavior. Um is Rock Spring being renovated? Uh there is no real renovation plan in place. I think both
Keer and and administration would like to see renovations, but that requires capital money. Um what we have been doing is uh since I started and I reviewed the agreement with Keer um there is a uh a carve out
of the gross revenue that gets put into a capital fund that's held by Keer for capital improvements and capital equipment. And since this agreement's been in place, this capital fund has been growing. Um, so I approached the
Keer management and we started utilizing this money because they're sitting on it. It's reserved in on their books and sitting in their bank account. So, we've been actually using that capital money so that we didn't have to use our own capital um for some capital repairs.
We've bought a beverage cart that we had to replace. Um, we did work with some of the pumps. So, we've actually been able to make some capital improvements without having to tap into township capital funds because that money has just been sitting there. Um, so, you
know, we've made some meaningful improvements the operation. Uh, and then they've also been doing things like, uh, they painted the exterior and fixed some of the, um, you know, the woodwork and everything. So, uh, small stuff, not a
major renovation. Um, but I I I think it's just been looking better and better, uh, you know, every month. Um, talking about, uh, Mr. Goldsman, uh, he brought up the payo, 100% right. Capital
planning is a big part of it because if you say we're going to do $5 a half million dollars a year and then my capital plan calls for, you know, buying a helicopter at $10 million, well then it it really doesn't make sense the 5.5 million. So he's totally right in that
the capital planning has to match up with um the restrictions that we're going to put on ourselves, the debt diet that we put on ourselves. So uh it's a chicken and the egg thing. I think having the debt diet in place then
causes us to really think about what we need versus what we want. Um so that is going to aid us in the capital planning but he is right capital planning has to follow along with it. Um to Miss McCree and Miss Pesy uh regarding parking um I
will talk to Mr. Smaldo when he returns and also director Carbalo bless you. Um, if there are spots that that we have that need to signage needs to be placed, we'll place the signage. And if there are spots that we are using that are for
uh for the senior uh building, then we will alert the employees not to use those spots. And you know, we will reach out to Mr. Albert. Again, we can't for I don't know if we can force him to put the signage up, but you know, we will we will ask him to properly delineate those
spots so that the residents can can utilize that parking and and also so that we don't take up uh those spots as well. So, I'll speak to uh Mr. Smaldo when he gets back on Thursday. Um for
the tree planting, uh thank you to uh Fedra. I apologize I didn't get your last name. I don't get a lot of the names. I don't hear very well. It's it's it's difficult to to get all the names, but um we will review uh the letter from
um uh Miss Epan, if I'm saying that correctly. Um so, you know, we'll use that as some guidance and I guess, you know, we'll decide on the resolution a little bit later on. Um what else? Oh, the u the grant again I
think this is a Mr. the Goldsman question about um the build America by America requirements that are in the grant. Um it's it's common that you have to use American steel, iron, and uh
forgetting the other uh raw material. Um you know, that's I think in almost all federal contracts now. to every federal contract that's over a million dollars. Uh and I believe even the state of New Jersey passed legislation in 2021 um
sort of mirroring the uh by America, Build America. Um so that's pretty standard. Uh let's see. I think that's it. Um
because I'm I'm not going to speak about the personnel thing just based on um what uh Mr. Samaro and Mr. Burke talked about. So I guess we save that. >> Yeah. So I know Councilwoman Ruden just a second uh had asked uh in her response
that she would like to get a better understanding of of a few things and I'm just not I just want to make sure that if Mr. sorero wants to say anything or or if you want to say anything to address that, we're going to go into uh an executive session at some point either tonight or very early tomorrow
morning. Uh and this could potentially come up in coverage in the uh executive session uh exemptions. Uh but if it's something that we can talk about now, like to do it. If we can't, then we'll we'll discuss it
further in the executive session. And don't want to put either of you guys on the spot. Just wanted to make sure that we had an opportunity to respond because it's so hard to keep all the balls in the air in during the meeting. >> Got a lot of balls. >> Yes.
>> We have labor and employment council present. Um the there is a distinction between what the governing body can discuss
outside the presence of the public and the public in general. Uh because there are certain privacy rights that are afforded employees. Um, it's always better to air on the side of
caution than not because you don't want to be subjecting yourself to a claim of violation of privacy rights. Uh so uh understanding that uh our employment council had suggested uh and and incidentally employment council is here
today uh to answer certain questions that some members of the council had with regard to some financial issues um but to discuss the same in close
session. Uh so what I would suggest is uh since we have employment council present, employment council is uh ready, willing and able to discuss uh those things that are related to the subject matter of the council woman's
inquiry. Um but which must be disclosed in executive session. uh that uh we refrain from discussing that any further. He could give an explanation uh
in in in close session as to the uh minutia of of of what uh is uh potentially disclosable in a public forum versus what's disclosable in in in executive session. uh and uh to the
extent that there is anything that could be discussed in an open session, I think that uh common sense and and and and just being cautionary would first suggest that we discuss this
in close session so everyone knows what the narrow parameters are as to what possibly if anything and I don't know if it is anything but could be discussed out public so that we don't have a full possib so to speak. Um uh with respect
to the inquiry of uh the West Essex uh application, uh again I I would suggest that we amend the executive session so that we could discuss uh attorney client communication a a
further explanation. But there there there was a settlement agreement and there the settlement agreement does regulate what the governing body should and shouldn't be doing with respect to the West Essex application. So I'm not going to discuss
things further in public that could give an advantage to someone that might ultimately be an adversary to us in litigation down the road. That doesn't make sense to do. uh and uh it it's been my experience and again I heir on the
side of caution uh I would never want to put uh the client of the township consequently the taxpayers uh at an exposure for a liability associated with potentially trying to influence a board
that has to reach a decision. Uh so that was my secondary advice was to refrain from participating in the hearing to avoid any sort of claim and I'm not saying that it would have any merit or value but again airing on the side of
caution and and being a fiduciary for the taxpayers let's avoid there being any possibility of any type of claim. Uh the safest best way to do that is not to appear at the meeting and and maintain a position uh with regard to uh any given
application before any of the land use boards. Uh and we could discuss uh the settlement agreement further in executive session. >> Okay. So note to the file we need to at some point while we get through the agenda >> to amend. >> Correct.
>> Okay. Sounds good. >> That's why I'm typing on my computer. Not not playing Galaga. >> Did I say it wrong, too? It's getting >> late. That's my favorite. >> All right. I think we're going to try to
get back to the agenda. Madam clerk, >> I just wanted to >> Oh, I beg pardon me. You had asked you would ask. Counciloman Maria Williams. >> Thank you. Just wanted to make one comment as we were talking about the uh 46 Mount Pleasant.
I can't recall specifically if I was on the planning board at that time, but I do recall that because it was a senior building, the parking ratio was reduced because there is an assumption that people of a certain age don't have as
many cars. >> That makes sense to a degree. Certainly, >> I I I recall that. >> And it was a redevelopment agreement. >> And it was a redevelopment agreement. So, I just wanted to state that for the public who may have been interested. Thank you. I just noticed uh we just lost a council
person. Maybe we take a five minute break at this point and uh and uh have her come back because there's going to be some actions to be taken pretty quickly. Is that okay? 5 minutes. It's uh 10:32. We will try to start again at
10:37. Sound like a plan. Okay. Thank you, >> Council President. Well, you picked a doozy. >> Council President, we are on the record. >> Okay. >> When you say on the record, you mean
we're back live? >> We're back on. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> Brownies. These are good. >> Uh, West Orange, just apologies for a slight delay in restarting. Councilwoman Williams, we're helping her
celebrate her birthday. >> And I made the mistake of of putting a caramel related brownie in my mouth. >> So I think the I think we called the paramedics. >> But was it real, you? >> Yes. Okay, >> Madam Clerk, we are back on
>> Yes, sir. >> back on schedule. >> Okay, so it's time to review the consent agenda. Approval of minutes of previous meeting. Public meeting November 24th, 2025. >> Report of township officers. None. Reading of petitions and communications
and bids. None. Bill list. Are there any questions on the bills? >> Yes. >> Um, I would still like to pull the bill that I pulled last week in regard to easy pass. Uh, or was it two weeks ago?
So, uh, Councilwoman, when we pulled the bill, was there a an expectation that we were going to get additional information so we could vote on it either up and down? >> And you haven't gotten that information. Is that >> I have gotten some additional
information? >> Oh, okay. >> Um, just hold on a second. Wow, these are delicious. >> Yes, they are. >> Very good. Too good. >> Too good.
>> Um, council, please. >> Yes. The the the response that I got from Mr. um, Smoralda was that this is his words. After speaking with the members of the WOPD command staff, there
are safety and operational concerns with our officers um that could potentially be detrimental to officer safety. As a result, I have ordered that this information be redacted on all bills going forward. This is not at all related to the question that I had. The question that I
had was whether or not the township should be paying for easy pass tolls for outofstate travel. that is unrelated to township business. So I do not feel that we got an answer to my question. I
understand the circumstances why he may not be able to res respond again to my my question which I presented once of once again but um I I would like to continue that discussion and therefore I'd like to pull the bill again.
>> Okay. So it seems to me that we because we have a new town attorney that perhaps in this situation we could ask him to lend his learned legal background to address this issue so we can determine
it once and for all and what is available and what is not available. Uh >> so I'll have to actually talk to administration. There are administrative prerogatives. >> Yes. >> I don't know what those policies are,
but I could make an inquiry with uh the business administrator and >> uh delve into it. >> Okay. So we had pulled this bill uh from the previous uh previous time. I think we would have to vote again to hold it
until the next council meeting. Is that is that correct? Okay. Is that the only bill that uh you have issue with point? Yes. >> Okay. Okay. So, >> it's the bill. >> I think what's appropriate is to have a motion and a second. >> Correct.
>> I make a motion to to pull the bill again. >> I'll second. >> Right. >> Is there any further discussion? >> Madam clerk. >> Councilwoman Castelino to pull >> to pull the bill. Yeah. No, I'm good
with the bill. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Great. Thank you, >> Council President. >> Yes, Councilwoman. >> Yeah. And my understanding always been
whether right right wrong or or you know indifferent is is that the that position has always been no matter where they are that they have they have to be be able to report back that that's
what we've been told through the years. So again um you know I'm going to leave it there. >> Okay. Yes. and and we have a new town attorney with uh fresh eyes. So, we will get this addressed and uh and see where we go. And hopefully we can get it
addressed between now and the next council meeting, which I guess will be in January sometime. Uh so, >> January 6th, >> January 6th, because it's just it's just better to try to get this stuff done in between council meetings rather than at
a council meeting in my opinion. Okay. So, we're done with the bills and now we need a I guess a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve the bill list. >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> We don't really do that. >> Oh, we don't. We just say consent. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Consent. >> Yeah. Consent. >> Okay. >> We need a motion to go into executive session. >> Well, are we doing that? >> Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. How quickly? >> It's the Browns. >> Yeah. I feel like I'm Maria Antuinette.
Okay. >> Okay. So, we we have we have we had actually consent. >> Yeah, we consent >> on the bills. We're done with the bills. Okay. Okay. So, now we're on to resolutions, >> right? Are any resolutions being pulled this evening? >> Council President.
>> Yes. >> If I may. >> Um the administration would like to pull resolutions 28225 and 28325 >> removed earlier today. Oh, >> okay. >> Did you get the updated agenda that I
left for you? >> No, I only had the one I pointed out. So, >> um, >> they've already been removed. Okay. So, >> the executive uh session was on the consent or is it separate? >> No, separate.
>> Separation. Okay. >> 288. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, is there uh anyone who wants to either pull or ask a question about any of the resolutions? And then I guess
uh Mr. Zumero, after we get through these, then we'll we'll pull uh 288-25, which is the resolution authorizing an executive session for the purpose of discussing the following long laundry list. We'll address that. >> Yeah, it got a little longer. I'll do
I'll ask for a motion to amend it. >> Okay. Okay. >> To include some additional stuff. >> Okay. >> So, Councilwoman, you have your hand. >> Yeah. 261. I like to pull to discuss >> 261. >> Yeah.
>> Then we can also pull uh 288-25. That's the resolution authorizing executive session because we're going to amend that at some point, but we can at least get that out of the way. That's it. That comes up.
>> Anybody else? Any other resolutions? >> So, I have 261 and 288. >> Yes, so far. >> Did you Are we waiting for any other questions or or polls? >> Is everybody done? Council
>> Scarpa, Council Mar, you're done. Okay. I move for the acceptance of the consent agenda. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> No, you have to move this one. >> Second and then I say all in favor. Yeah. >> Yeah. All in favor?
>> Any opposed? The consent agenda is implemented. >> Okay. So 261-25 resolution authorizing a contract to Serbos Parcipony Green Houses for the purchase of trees, roof barriers, and
deer fencing in the amount of $79,000 with an additional $12,000 to install deer fencing and root barriers if needed. Councilwoman Castelino, you pulled that. >> Yeah. So, so, uh, going back to public comment
with the issues, um, from this vendor with other plantings. So like I again is the planting I'm going to ask administration due to an oversight issue on the
township's part or shouldn't the vendor be able to properly plant the the trees and if that's the case if it's >> on them I I mean here we go $80,000 like
>> well the guar they're guaranteed the contract is guaranteed >> for two years, >> right? >> Only two years. >> All of this work if they have messed up and and the trees have not survived or or or don't survive, they have to be replaced at at the full cost of the
vendor. >> So, so, so here's here's my issue. Like these trees were just and again, I don't know who made that call that just got planted last week. I know for my landscaper in my home, we you never would plant a tree this late in the
year. The shot of the tree surviving is is not good. Um >> might as well plant it with some rock salt. >> Um and yeah, and going up and down Main Street um in the trolley the other day.
Um yeah, so I I'm not comfortable moving forward to issue another contract. So again, legal or >> director somebody. Yeah, >> please.
>> Uh so uh the bids came in uh on November 14th. Uh I I spoke uh to our clerk. Uh we have 60 days within which to award that contract or reject the bids under uh the the the public contracts law
bidding laws. uh one one uh criteria uh that could be employed is if we decide that we want to change the criteria. So if there were
specifications that uh we heard this evening that our uh committee wishes to uh insert as changing the scope of work to require better guidance with respect to the depth of planting and and other
criteria. Uh, I believe that that could be the reason to reject all bids and go out to new bid with with new specifications. Uh, and we have and and if I'm wrong, and I don't think I am, but if I am wrong, we still have time to to to make a decision on on the bid. So,
we could carry this until January, and within that time, we'll take a look at uh I'll talk to the administrator, bring the criteria. I think uh is any it was
submitted here this evening, right? >> One of the people is going to send me the bids. Uh >> okay. And if you could get that to me and then we could kind of go over with our committee and see if those are specifications. I don't even know what the bid specs were. Maybe something similar included,
>> maybe it isn't. Uh but if it is already included, then we just have to truly enforce it. Um, and uh, bottom line is give us until mid January and I'll I'll
be in a position to let everyone know what the options are and how we could proceed. >> Okay. Appreciate that. >> Yeah. I I think we should consider that we give very specific >> instructions within the bid if we if we go out again within the bid specs about
how to plant these trees. just agree. >> Okay. >> I I don't know what the reason is that that we all but we all should be on the same page with exactly how we want these trees to be planted and I can't think of uh a better place to find out than
Rutgers Extension >> and it seems we have heard opinions right here in our neighborhood. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, at this point, is there any further discussion? >> Uh we need a motion to table 261-25.
Okay. Yes. The words right out of my mouth to the January 6th meeting. >> I'll make the motion to table it. >> Yes. You need a second. >> Any further discussion? >> Madame clerk. >> Uh, Councilwoman Castelino.
>> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarf. Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Thank you. >> I have a question. >> Yes. Councilwoman. Um, we've we've tabled this. Does that mean that we will
be back in session before 60 days? So, are these bids still alive? >> Yes, these bids are alive until our next council meeting. By the next council meeting, I will have already made a suggestion as to whether or not we're rejecting the bids for some reason. Uh
if if we're not rejecting the bids, I would suspect that you're probably going to get a memo from me saying that the criteria that was suggested to us or something substantially similar was already included and it's a matter of us simply enforcing. >> Okay?
>> You know, um but you'll hear from me before then and we'll have direction on how to proceed on the six. >> Okay. And I would just like to request that if you do if you do believe that the criteria are substantially different that we be given an an opportunity to look at the RF RFQ before it goes out
because we want to make sure that we're getting the work done that we need >> properly. in this particular application lacked so many things including you know who's taking care of the watering um the ch
the tree choices the >> well the the the the watering after they're planted. >> Yes. Yes. Who's responsible? It doesn't specify at all. Normally it is the vendor that is responsible or it should specify. >> No, they're not the property owner. They wouldn't be coming back and watering that.
>> They have they have in in this township I believe. Um the water truck. >> Miss Reynolds said that it is the um the vendor that is responsible. >> Yeah, it was in the previous contract was in the And I thought it was in this one, too. I I've never seen that in in
my life, I guess. Uh >> and it it's only it it doesn't have a three-year guarantee. It has a 2-year guarantee. And since you're planting right now in the winter, you know, what's the >> And well, I mean, just because they're getting the bid now does it I I'd have to look at it. I don't know when the
planting actually takes place. >> The bid. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I sent you I sent you the criteria that were sent to us from Rutgers. >> Oh, right now. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um Okay. We we we'll certainly take a look at that. So, how long did the watering go take place?
>> I don't remember exactly how long. >> I don't I didn't year, but I don't remember. But there's also another mistake in this in this contract itself. But I can go over with that with you at another time. Not take >> good point. Good idea.
Let's move on in the meeting. We are now down to 288. >> Yes, >> Mr. Samero. I'm going to recognize you and you have the floor for I hope a judicious and brief amendment.
This is uh the 28825 resolution authorizing an executive session. >> Correct. I I would ask for a motion uh to revise uh this resolution to also include attorney client communication
regarding uh West Essex Highlands application and settlement agreement. >> So moved. >> Um thank you. Second. >> Is there any further discussion?
Mr. Samo, I do have a question unless someone else does. Uh I just want to make sure you're talking about on on this uh this amendment the West Texas Highlands application that's now pending before the planning board. >> Correct.
>> And then you're also talking about a settlement and you're talking about the 2020 settlement >> for the third round. >> For the third round. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Correct. So, >> you on >> Oh, I was just going to say uh before I
went and spoke at the planning board and uh uh I reviewed that settlement, I was around when we we originally did it, but read it and I think when you read it, you will see that it specifically does
not prevent a council person, an individual council person from commenting in in in this mode. What the what the settlement agreement says is that the council as a whole and the township as a whole cannot
do anything to prevent the uh uh to to negatively impact their application before the planning board. So I read that as an individual council person, you know, we have, you know, rights as a resident and we could speak
and that's what that's what I've done and I think other people have spoken as well. >> Council, >> I think everybody has spoken except for Tammy Williams who was on the planning board for several years. Yeah. And when you go to the planning board training sessions, you learn that as an elected
and sitting official, you do not comment on the quad quasi judicial u boards because if there is ever an appeal, that appeal might have to come back to us as a body and we've already kind of indicated where we stand. Well, it's
funny you mentioned that because it used to be that that's what would happen with the appeals that by ordinance they had to come here before they went to the superior court. And I I I I think under the MLU that provision applies to the zoning board of adjustment for for
devariances, not bulk variances. But let's have this conversation in close session so that I can give you the advice that I would uh and and we could have dialogue as attorney and
client. >> Yeah. >> Uh to to develop these questions so I could give you guidance. Um, >> I was going to say, Madame Clerk, could probably dig up the vote where the council majority, I think it was unanimous, that we got rid of that
ordinance such that any appeal from either one of the land use boards here in West Orange, would go directly to superior court and bypass uh the council. >> That's always that that's always my advice, by the way. >> Yes. Well, we took it even before you
got here. >> Well, you read my mind. You read my mind. I just want to say as as a member of the planning board, I have not I've declined to comment on anything. >> I understand the issue. >> Fair enough. Um uh and uh well, if we can just have a vote on this and then I
wanted to bring something else to your your attention, Mr. President. >> We got a motion in a second. >> We got it already, but I just want to go over the amendment attorney client communication to include West Essex Highlands >> and the third round affordable housing settlement related to that project.
Yeah. Westix Highlands planning board application. That's the current. It's current going on and the 2020 settlement agreement in the third round. >> Okay. Okay. Good. Perfect. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes.
>> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Kakoviac. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Good. >> Uh so, uh, Council President, >> yeah, we have to do that, too. Yes. Sorry. Uh
for what? >> No, no, no. Okay. So, this is a little out of sequence. Um but, uh Miss Bennett had asked a question regarding pension relative to the chief. Uh and I have
consulted with our labor and employment council here. uh and uh I believe that our CFO can give it an answer to the question that is already out in the public domain. So it's not a a personnel
narrow issue. Uh and I think that uh uh if you're so inclined, I think that perhaps the CFO could just uh answer one pointed question that I ask of him which I think will illuminate this one issue and then we should just leave it there.
Sounds good to >> Okay. Uh so um with respect to the chief, I believe the the question was we understand that that he is and it's a matter of public record in FPS. Uh the question was whether or not he is
also uh in PERS and if there's public records that relate to that that would provide you be give you the ability to provide an answer. Could you please answer? >> Sure. Uh so yes, the the chief while employed with the township of West Orange was in the PFRS, the police and
fire retirement system. He retired November 30th from the police and fire retirement system. He was not a part of the public employee retirement system or PERS um during his time in West Orange. He never made any contributions as far
as I know. Uh and he does not show up on any quarterly records from the public employee retirement system. Okay, thank you. Great. Thank you. >> Uh if if I could uh I want to just briefly address something in 285-25.
It's I realiz >> Yeah, we need to a motion to approve as amended. >> You're exactly I screwed >> as amended. Second. >> Okay. >> Incidentally, those things wouldn't happen if we did it at 9:00.
>> Yes, this is true. >> Any discussion? Oh, sorry. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwomanel. >> Oh, amending the executive session. >> Oh. Um, yeah. I apologize. Could we actually amend the amendment as well?
>> Sure. >> Okay. But my head just exploded. >> It just did. Yeah, me too. Um >> Okay. Uh the the reason for this request is that we have council present uh who has advised uh that uh certain
questions that were uh sought by members of the council of a financial nature relative to uh the terminal uh leave payout
uh for the chief. um could be discussed in close session uh and that no rice notice would be necessary to do so. So, uh quite frankly, it was my understanding at the last council meeting that that was going to be discussed. Uh I learned uh earlier today
that it wasn't. Uh but we have council here. He's he's uh able to provide some uh answers to some of those financial questions. Uh so I I think that if we could amend the executive session resolution uh to address uh those questions
um it's not going to be on anything other than the numbers. Uh and this uh the reason why that that was relevant was because uh the council is ultimately going to be looking at a bill list that's associated with this um at some point in time in the future. Uh and
again uh this isn't uh something that that that we feel should be discussed publicly but could be discussed in close session and without the need of a right notice at this point in time since he's no longer an employee. Uh so if I could uh and
Karen's going to kill me but uh if we could amend the >> uh resolution to also include uh financial discussions associated with the uh the terminal leave payout. Is that the way to to to to phrase it uh of
the chief uh >> moved? Hold on. I'm still work on that. >> Okay. >> And I apologize for being a little disjointed on that. I >> now you fit right in here. It's all good. >> You get used to the late night.
>> We don't refer to it as joint. We refer to it as canvas. Oh, >> in West Orange. >> Okay. So, uh I'm sorry. Who made the motion? So, >> okay. Thank you. And you seconded it. >> Uh, yes.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Any further discussion? Madam Clerk, >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Karpa, Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. Now,
>> now we have to pass. >> Right. Now, we need a motion to approve. >> I move to >> as amended. Second. >> As amended. Okay. >> Any discussion? >> No, >> Madam Clerk. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Karpa, Councilwoman Williams, yes. Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Thank you. >> Amended. >> Have we have we approved uh >> the console? >> All the all the resolutions.
>> All the resolutions are approved. So, if anybody's here, they they could go home if they want, >> right? Everything is approved. Yeah, everything's approved on resolutions. Yeah. >> So, so I just wanted to flag something on 285-25. >> Yeah. Now, we're on to that. >> It's a couple of uh of of tax appeals
that have come to an end, and I just wanted to flag them because the the these two tax appeals in the resolution were significant taxpayers within the township. And the two tax
appeals, one of them reduced the assessment by 35%, the other one by 23%. And it resulted in a reduction in our taxable tax base of over $11 million. And
I know this is coming on the heels of implementing the revaluation. And I just wondered I I wanted to flag this in case this becomes a problem. uh if if we're getting a lot of our big uh properties reassessed downward so significantly
because that's going to have an impact on our our revenue. Um but I just I don't know Mr. whether you can speak to that that issue. If not we can just bring it up in the January meeting. >> Um I can have more to report.
Was that >> the bathroom door? >> Oh I could have more to report at the next meeting. >> Okay. I I in talking with with the assessor, Jacob, I I don't believe we have a lot of cases in state tax court now, which is where these these two
large ones came from. Um, but we can report on the current case load, both state and county tax. >> Okay, great. Thank you. All right. >> Now, the question becomes for the council. Uh,
>> do we do the one resolution and dang >> ordinance? Oh, I'm sorry. The one ordinance. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Should have done it first. >> Okay. >> All right. So, ordinance 2945-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing
chapter 7, traffic subsection 7-21, multi-way stops of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final meeting? >> Motion to introduce. >> Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes.
>> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Now is the time for the public hearing on ordinance 2945-25. If you would like to speak on this
ordinance and on this ordinance only for up to 5 minutes. Please raise your hand and be recognized by the chair. Once you're recognized by the chair, you can come to the podium on my right and speak for up to five minutes. Is there anyone who wishes to speak on ordinance
2945-25? Seeing no hands, I close the public hearing. And Madame Clerk, >> is there a motion to approve 2945-25 on second and final reading? >> Motion to approve 2945-2. >> Second.
>> Thank you. >> Council discussion. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. Councilwoman Williams. Yes. Council President Koviaak. >> Sounds good. Yes, >> the motion carries. >> Thank you. We have no ordinances on
first reading. We have we have two pending matters on the agenda. One of them was 80 Main Street, but I think we are going to be talking about that in executive session. >> Correct. >> So, I guess we could leave that on the agenda in case we could come back and talk about it. And then the other one
was the 2026 council connection dates. What is the council connection? It's our monthly meeting where we meet in council chambers uh as many of the council members who can make it and we uh meet with uh residents who want to talk to us
uh directly. Uh are there any you've you've circulated the count the dates for 26, right? >> That's usually the last Thursday I believe of the month of each month, >> right? >> Yeah, that's fine. Mhm.
>> What do we think about that council? >> Fine. Fine with me. >> So, I had trouble making them and I know that many of them and I and I I appreciate all of you being um available for them,
but there was times where you didn't have anyone come. So, I don't know if >> people almost every time. >> That's not >> No, there was a few times I talked to you and you didn't have people sometimes one person but we've never had >> I'm saying is is it you know
>> was it productive >> I think it's very >> okay I think we're arguing about uh how many angels can be on a pin let's dedicate ourselves to using social media going forward and you're absolutely right why have the meeting if nobody comes but I don't I think we can do a
better job of promoting it uh and u marketing it on social media so >> well my my issue with it too is when folks do come and I I don't expect personnel to be there but there they're not there isn't anyone like we don't
always have the answers. >> It's okay. >> So I I feel sometimes you know we're we're not ready to give an answer and people walk away from them with not all the facts all the time too. >> They get answers but they might not be
accurate answers. >> The answer might be they'll get back to you. Yeah, that's a great and that's been the answer. We'll get back to you if we don't know. >> I'm again I'm just throwing it out there. I I can't make most of them anyway. >> Um and I appreciate
you're able to do that, but again I'm just looking at the >> you know just the balance if it's productive or not. That's it. That was my comment. Okay. Did we do any tracking data to see how
many people were attending them? Uh I did not keep keep I kept uh I didn't keep a count but I kept notes uh so I could go back and check but I think I think there was only one meeting where no one came one one one council
connection where no one came and I think that was because they found out that councilwoman Ruden couldn't make it and so they didn't Um, I'm just kidding. But, you know, >> okay,
>> she's popular. >> So, so let's just keep them as uh as the last Thursday of each month and excluding December because we're not having a council connection this month because the last Thursday is not going
to be convenient to people. >> Isn't that Christmas? >> I don't know. I don't think that far ahead. >> That's Christmas week. Yeah, >> I don't start thinking about Christmas till after I finish my Christmas shopping. So, >> well, I can understand that cuz I don't
think about it until after my birthday, which is today. >> And I have a spouse who has a birthday, I think, on the last Thursday of the month. So, I'm going to be really busy with that. So, >> so we're good to keep on that. We'll get uh Madame Clerk to give us a
>> calendar. Yep. >> And we're good. Okay. No ABC. So the only thing we have is our >> executive session. >> Thank you. And we may come back if we can talk at all about 80 main. Sound
like a plan. >> Shouldn't we do pending managers or we can let the gentleman who's here for 80 main? >> No, we're doing that in executive session. >> Exeive session. >> We're we're not sure at this point. >> Is there someone here from 80?
>> Yes. Yes. Mr. Man is one of the partners. Oh. It's hanging in there. >> I thought he was just lost when he came in and I explained to him that it could be a long night for him. Uh because because what we've recently
done and when I say recent, I mean as recent as today, we came up with this executive session that has multiple aspects to it, including >> I don't you know, um I I I could talk to Mr. Man prior to us going to close
session. Uh I don't envision us taking official action this evening um on this. Um it was to uh kind of get a sentiment of
the governing body. Um so uh and I could follow up with Mr. Man like you know tomorrow uh as to certain things that I could divulge. Uh, but I would like to talk to him before we recess into close session just for two minutes. >> Okay. >> I I didn't realize you were here
otherwise I I >> we would have waited till even later. >> Okay. So, we will await your conversation, the end of your conversation with Mr. Man and then we'll go into executive session. >> Yeah. If we could recess now and then I it's only be a minute.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. >> Council President, just point of clarification. Am I going to keep the zoom meeting open during executive session until council returns to council chambers or can I close out the zoom meeting? >> I think we can close out the zoom meeting because the only other thing
would be adm and we just heard Mr. Samero said >> yeah there won't be official action. >> Yes. >> But but you do have to adjourn the meeting outside of close session. Um >> so we have to come back. Okay. >> Oh, I felt bad for Mr. >> Sorry. Sorry Mr. Good.
>> That was the same answer we got the last time. >> Yeah. >> I was just hoping it would change. That's >> I thought so. >> So, recess to executive session. >> Okay. >> I'll second. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second it. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Okay. The motion is
carried. >> Thank you, West Orange. >> Well, we're coming back. >> No, we're not. >> Yeah. Also, >> you better be >> not if I go into diabetic shock. >> Oh, lord.
>> Up on a few more brownies. >> Make sure they're ones. >> The raspberry. >> Thank you, West Orange, for your patience. As you can see, the town council has returned to the deis. At
this point, I'd like to turn the meeting back over to our council president. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan, and thank you for everybody who's still hanging around. We are we have uh adjourned from our executive session, and now we need to adjourn from our meeting. >> Oh, I make a motion.
>> Do I hear? >> I second, please. >> I I Did we do a roll call? >> I think we had to do a roll call, don't we? >> To adjourn. >> No, no, for uh >> come back. Oh, to come back. Oh, okay. Okay. Back in.
Okay. >> Councilwoman Castalina, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Sara, Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> Okay, so we have a motion to adjourn and a second. All in favor?
>> Any opposed? The meeting is adjourned. Happy holiday. My parents.