Good afternoon, West Orange, and welcome to the West Orange Township Municipal Budget meeting for May 5th, 2026. Uh, the next budget hearing is scheduled for May 12th, uh, 2026, and this information
is posted on our website. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to Council President. >> Okay. Thank you everyone for joining us, Madame Clerk. >> Thank you. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with the with section five
of the open pe open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was placed on the township of West Orange website on April 16th, 2026. Councilwoman uh Castelina is on her way.
Councilman Koviaak. >> Councilwoman Ruden >> here. Councilwoman Williams >> present. >> Council President Scarpa >> present. Will everyone please rise for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their budget meeting. >> Excuse me, council president. I just spoke to Councilman Castelino. She's in route. >> Okay. Very good. All right. So, I believe we will begin with public
comment. Is there anyone in the audience who'd like to make public comment? Okay. >> Hi everybody. Um I'm Edie Bear, 14 Dogwood Drive. I'm a member of the CBAB. Um, I just quickly want to remind
council members that we wrote a pretty comprehensive report last year and there are a lot of ideas in there about things that we could consider for future years which might be applicable now. We may have missed deadlines already for some
of the um items, but a quick review probably be helpful. >> Thank you. We will do that. Thank you for reminding us. I know there were a lot of really good ones. Yes, come on up. Let's give your name and address. >> My name is Kenneth Gibbons, Seven Rigs
Place, West Orange, New Jersey. Okay. Okay. I'm a CPA, CGMA, MST, and an auditor. and uh I've lived here almost 60 years, lifelong resident. I turned 57 58 on May
7th. Hard to believe. Um I'd like to speak briefly about the affordability issue that plenty of my neighbors have been talking to me about and uh you know the burden of the increase of taxes and the potential increase we now face based
on the current budget. Um, first I want to acknowledge and thank the SBA over there works very hard. Spent a lot of hours I know last year working on this. I also want to thank the council members. I want to thank Joe and Sue
showing up at the small biz business uh seminar I have put together to come out and represent and help our small business owners in town. So, I appreciate that. Um that said, I also have to say many in the community like myself that come and talk to me is very
concerned about the budget process and the looming possible increase of the taxes once again. So um as someone who has spent a career analyzing financial statements and budgets, I believe, uh
there is an opportunity for professionals such as me, CPAs, and uh fellow colleagues that have very large firm financial experience. So um based on that I have had discussions with them
and we're going to form a volunteer group of to also assist in going through the current budget. This is for collaboration. It's definitely not to replace the CVAP but just to give another independent view as we go through the budget as well. Another
thought I have is because I teach a financial literacy program for high school students who want to do an internship with me. I think this is a great opportunity for them to work side by side with seasoned professionals. So, it's a win-win for the town, right? We're going to help with the budget and
these kids are some of them are going to Ivy League schools are going to have an opportunity and a leg up from their fellow students when they enter a program um getting the experience of working with a side by side. Again, appreciate everybody's help, but uh we
just want to assist and collaborate and help out. >> Great. >> So, thanks. >> Thank you. Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for young people. >> Yeah. >> Great. Thank you. Yes. Uh Kayla, I'll get you next.
Good afternoon, Michaela Bennett. Um, Old Indian Road. So, just just a couple of thoughts. I know that there was a um communication that went out regarding what we were going to cover tonight. I think the sooner we can have notice of that particularly when we started with a
certain number of departments and we were prepared to proceed with those uh departments um would be helpful at least to the seab to stay organized. You know there are those of us that um prepared ourselves for certain departments and
then found out that you were not proceeding with those departments. Um, I I would ask that the administration and the council effort to keep the public informed, make sure that the SEABAD knows what you're doing. Uh, your
departure from your process last year that we discussed um, privately, I think is worth mentioning publicly. The SEABB had a seat at the table. We were a part of the discussion. We didn't have to get up, climb over. We don't have to sit on
seats that are very uncomfortable for 5 hours committing to every minute that you're here for these workshops. We are as well. Um, we also waited our turn, added what we thought was relevant and put that on the record. Now, I understand that you're going to make
sure that we're able to put what we need to put on the record, but there really is no reason why you couldn't extend your table. you know, my family um my dad taught us that um um it's easier to extend a table than to build a wall. And
I would suggest that when we proceed that way, when we invite, particularly since you all have appointed one of us to um review the budget and provide you with recommendations, it would be nice to be welcomed to the conversation and
not have to climb over tables that we've just kind of thrown together. You know how big the budget is. It was very difficult when I was trying to manage the papers of the budget to not have a table to um set up that just just a
consideration and a courtesy. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, Justin. >> Uh good afternoon, Justin Goldsman, Moran Road. Um so just want to again shout out to CBA. Um, and I think on um, Michaela's previous point about keeping
us all informed, I think it might be helpful on the on the graphics on the town website when they say, you know, meeting on May 4th or today's May 5th if it might have, you know, budget workshop or whatever we're calling them. Sorry, budget workshop topics, police, fire,
whatever. So, we know and if that way the public is informed, they know that this is the one to come to instead of where in the process that might be lost in translation there. Um, thank you for doing these. As we saw at the board of ed meeting last night, these do add a tremendous value. So, seriously and
truly, thank you for hosting these. Um, I don't know if we're supposed to be talking about the previous budgets that were presented last week or the future ones for tonight, so I'll do just comments on both. Um, there was a there was a budget item with a $3,000 increase
for New Jersey DMV fees. Um, last year it was a $1,900 allocation and we spent 4,700. Um, it's budgeted for 3,000 again this year. I'm just wondering what the difference in $3,000 was from 2025 to 2026 and why that's projected again for
this year. Um, also on page 140, there's about $24,000 allocated. I'm sorry. Um, there's a last year there was $4,150 spent on street resurfacing and this year it's a $7,500 request. Just want to know if that means that we're
resurfacing more streets because I think we could use those um replacements and resurfacing. But then also on page 10, there's a decrease in the funding for street repairs. I'm not an engineer. I'm not a construction worker by any means. I'm just curious if those two should be
inversely proportionate. I would think that resurfacing and repairs go hand in hand. So, the money doesn't seem to go in that correlation. Um, again, there might be an answer to that. I don't know, but I think that's worth examining. Um, on engineering, I just want to say I went to the county's storm
water municipal utility um workshop that they hosted where they informed residents about the or not residents, but prospective municipalities about how those went out. I just want to say that Maplewood in 2025 generated $875,000
from their utility to do dedicated solely dedicated no funible items solely dedicated to street water and infrastructure maintenance and repairs. Um I think that's a pretty big that's almost one tax point. Um and their projection is to be slightly more than that this year. So I think that is a
conversation worth looking into. Um, and also on the mapping effort of our stormwater utilities. I know it's been said that we're out looking at um, vendors and proposals and I heard that there was potentially a proposal coming here. I very excited about that
opportunity. As you know, I've been advocating for that for a while. I don't see that budgeted anywhere. So, I just want to flag that that if we do come with the muchneeded proposal to do this because we have exacerbated flooding all over town, I want to make sure that the money is
there somewhere to entertain that proposal. Um, and then just lastly, um, I know the BA at the last meeting said there was a new protocol coming out about artificial intelligence and safety usage. Also very appreciative of that, um, for the town to be entertaining that. I don't know if that requires
funding or any software updates or anything. I just want to make sure that's budgeted as well. So, thank you for your time. We do pay attention. We do read the 200 pages. Um, and hopefully the public's commentary is worthwhile and uh helps find savings. So, thank you very much. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to make public comment? >> Council President,
>> I was going to I was going to call on you next. Yeah. >> You know, just to let everybody know, we did post the agenda on the on the town's website. It's on the agenda. So, every department that's listening for tonight is there. >> Okay. So just wait anybody's listening at home and we do have the calendar already set. We set these two weeks ago.
So I clerk can read them again later, but next week on Monday the 11th we have the department of recreation, the west health department, senior services, the tax collector, tax assessor and emergency management scheduled. >> So we did we did post them. So it's um they were out there week ago.
>> They were posted a week ago, right? >> But just to let everybody know it is posted under the agendas. >> Okay. It is posted on the agenda so that they they could see it. Okay. And I'll make sure that the clerk will post the next meeting tomorrow. We can get that. >> Thank you. And how would you like to
handle questions that were asked? Um some of them were up on different uh with different departments that may or may not be here. So I'll defer to your judge. >> I think some of the some of the questions were going to be answered tonight. Uh so we can we can address them then. All right. >> Okay. Very good. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. Then if there's no more public comment, we'll close public comment. I vote to close public comment. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Okay. Public comment is closed. >> Okay. So, Mr. Diniac, we'll let you take it from here.
>> Thank you, Council President. Uh, welcome everyone to the second budget hearing of 2026. Um, thank you to the SABAB members of SBAB that are here in attendance to uh assist the council um with the 2026 budget process and to any
constituents that are in the audience and watching at home. And for those watching at home, I'm going to take us to the budget document we're going to be working off of tonight. Uh, starting on the homepage of our beautiful website, we're going to go to departments,
finance, On the left side here, we're going to click over to the budget and we have a 2026 municipal budget heading. We posted a budget drivers worksheet that we looked at at our first budget hearing and we're going to work
off of the 2026 proposed budget document as of April 20th, 2026. Um before I begin, the procedure that the township follows for the the annual budget is that we are going to go through the different departments. We're
going to look at salaries and wages uh and operating expenses. The council is going to ask questions and potentially propose cuts or additions to uh line items. And at some point in this process, we will actually vote to
approve each page. and then that will uh form the basis of a probably a budget amendment that we'll have to pass by resolution prior to adopting the budget. So as I spoke last uh
last budget hearing the first budget hearing I want to go down to where we are at in terms of the introduced budget. So the proposed budget for 2026 I'm going to zoom in for those at home. It's a little hard to see, I understand.
Um, but here are the the the main factors for or the main uh uh inputs for the increase for this year. So, the local tax which encompasses um all of our police, fire, code,
engineering, um health department, salaries, wages, all the operations of the township. Uh the increase in the local tax on the average home is approximately $279.54.
The increase for the library tax, which is based on what we call the third of the mill calculation, and it's on the 2025 NVT, is $32.27 on the average home. And then I have
estimated increases for the county for their open space tax and their uh operations tax at 2%. And I'll explain why I say 2% yet this difference here is
2.5. And then I estimated the local school tax at a previously announced 2.5%. Which is $37.7. The reason that the increase year-over-year of the average home is
2.56 on county and 3.06 on the local uh school tax is because of a $54 million ratable change that when I present the finance budget and revenue we will speak
about in in more in depth um more detail. So the total municipal increase is just a penny shy of $312 and the overall projected estimated tax
increase is $666.34. Um all of these numbers uh with the exception of the library tax uh are subject to change. So last week uh we went through the fire department
um department of public works and is that it? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Two big departments. I mean that was a lot. Tonight today this afternoon we are going to start uh with a presentation by zoning enforcement and property maintenance followed by the
West Orange engineering department. then the building construction code department UCCC. We're also going to speak with the IT department and finish things up with the best department in all the township clerk. So
>> all those >> Yes. Township clerk is the final department tonight. >> That's on the agenda for tonight. Yeah. >> Yeah. But when you announced last at the end of last meeting, you said that it was going to be planning, zoning,
engineering, and construction office. Um, and the clerk the clerk was not mentioned. >> Neither was it, was it? >> No. And neither was it. So, I'm not prepared to go over those two budgets.
We sent out the >> That was I don't think I mentioned it. >> Was announced at the meeting. >> It was Well, it was announced now. I know we sent out the schedules and you sent out the schedules, correct? We >> sent out the schedules. >> Yeah, that >> I'm sorry that you didn't see it, but you know, we we had it on there. So, >> you sent out schedules to the town
council. >> I sent Well, I sent the clerk and then the clerk sent it out. >> I'll defer to the council president. You control the meeting. >> That we not do them if we haven't had time to really scrutinize them. I think the council needs time to prepare >> and so does the CABAB.
>> So So then just to be clear, we're going to do zoning enforcement, engineering, and construction code tonight. Okay. So, uh for the for the public, we will not be addressing the IT department and the township clerk. So, um
>> IT manager and township clerk, you may leave. >> Oh, no. You have to do the meeting. Aha. So, we will uh amend I think the next uh agenda and and put those those departments on the next department.
>> We really need to prepare especially since we're expediting things and we're trying to work more efficiently. >> Totally understand. Apologies if I I made a statement at the last meeting. I I don't remember if I said the departments, but >> you said you said the departments for both for th for this week and for next
week. And for next week, you said police, wreck, health, and OEM. I thought police was coming up too. So maybe we can be clear maybe that was initially what we were be clear on what moving for the next meeting as well. >> We sent out the schedules. I just read out ju just so we know. So I sent out
the schedules. We updated it. Um the police were going to move but I actually sent that to the whole council three additional dates anticipating that we're not going to be able to finish in three. Um the only council person responsible for council president was May 18th to 20th and June 1st. >> Um so we can add those on there. We're
going to look to if if the first meeting is the 18th, we're going to put the police on first. We're just going to take whatever uh departments can't make it in there and we'll just slide it to the extra reading so that this way we try to stick to the schedule. >> Yeah, I just really want CBA to be able to scrutinize it and as well as my
council colleagues. So, >> it looks like the next one was police and who else are >> and I we can't do the police next week anyway because the police chief is unavailable to attend next week because he has a graduation at the police academy. So, we'll be doing it then. >> No, I just read out the list before. Um,
hold on. Excuse me one second. >> Let's get clear on who we're gonna do next. >> You say that to >> Yeah, just clar madam clerk has the schedule. She can just defend it to you and then we can go from there. >> We'll post it online. Make sure >> Yeah, but we want to be able to write down tomorrow. Yeah, I'd like to know now so that we can get started in the
next day or so. >> Give me one second. Please >> pull it back up. >> Yes. Also, if I remember correctly from last week, fire was supposed to come back with answers to certain questions. >> Right. Right.
>> Fire was going to present their questions in writing. That's what he's >> Did they do that? >> I don't believe he did. Did >> if they did, we can read the next day. >> He did the next day. Yeah. I'm sorry. He did. >> Maybe we read the uh maybe we can read the uh responses, too. >> So,
okay. So the next week we have department of recreation, the health department and senior services and transportation is included with that difficult name. Sorry. Uh West Orange Tax Collector,
the West Orange Tax Assessor, and the West Orange Office of Emergency Management. So, we're putting off it and the clerk then till later. >> Yes, we'll we'll reschedule them to the further date. We're going to add them. We'll just put the clerk and the IT behind the police or whoever else
doesn't get hurt. >> Yes, council. >> I heard when we were doing the Zoom announcements that the next date was going to be May 12th, but that's actually our council meeting, correct? Um May 11th. I just wanted to confirm that the actual next is May 11th.
>> Yes, we will change that graphic that's on the website to May 11th. >> Yeah. >> Also, >> and that's right. >> And >> thank you. >> And then we'll see if
Good. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> that's exactly what I That was exactly my point. When you go to the township website, we have boxes underneath it that are the most recent recent issues
or dates. And it does say that we are having a municipal budget meeting tonight, but it does not say what the topics are. So, I would like that to be amended. And then if you click on the button where it says read on, it then goes to West Orange Township Municipal
Budget, it gives you the the um zoom in the the Zoom um link. And again, it does not say what topics are being discussed. So I'm not clear, Mr. Smeldo, where this
is obvious to the public that this is what what subjects we will be covering. >> Okay. So, Councilwoman, if we could pull up, go to government, go to um go to agendas,
and see where it says council meeting, budget meeting number two. Um, and click on that link right there. And there it is. >> And when did that come up? A week ago. >> Okay. So, that is kind of in the weeds for for the public. And this should be
on the front page. you're announcing the the um budget meeting. You're putting on a link. It should be right there. There shouldn't be hidden under agenda under town council especially. >> We want to put the agenda under the agenda or somewhere else. >> Right there. Right there where it says West Orange Community.
>> We could have that linked. We'll just ask we'll ask our we'll ask our people to link that to the agenda site. >> It should be on the front page where residents can see. >> No, that's the second click on the front page. just says that there could say
agenda underneath it. We can see >> it could very easily say what the agenda issues are, what the agenda um departments that we'll be we'll be examining. It should say it there and it should say it on the readon page where you're giving the link to the Zoom. >> Okay.
>> Yeah, that would be a little more clear. Thank you. >> I I I think Mr. Fagen said we can add it to the subheading. >> Yeah. Yes. Um certainly where it says read on a a link could be put on there that would uh take you to the agenda
page uh listing all the departments that are going to be heard that night to actually put them on the graphic itself would be a bit impractical. It could have gone but you wouldn't be able to read it. So in the readon section uh that would be the place to uh where more
information could be added and uh the graphic itself on the scroll should be limited to the meeting alert the meeting date and time and then uh as uh counciloman Ruden has suggested we could put more information in the readon section uh specifically a link to the
agenda. >> Right. Great. Um, council president, also we did not get a chance to respond to public comment, >> were we? Was that not supposed to happen? >> Um, if you want to respond to public comment, we can. >> So, uh, ju just a few a few things. I
just want to again ask why we don't have CBA at the table. And I understand that, you know, you want to make a change, but shouldn't this be something that the entire council discusses before you make a unilateral change? We really want to expedite things and I did speak to the
administration and a number of council people and we really want to move it. I do feel that the elected officials should have the opportunity first to make their comments and then CBA will have their opportunity as well. But the elected officials will go first. Then
SBA will go and we will not make any uh motions to do anything until everyone has had their turn. But the elected officials will go first. I do want to move it along. >> I understand that. But I I feel that in fact this is exactly doing the opposite of not moving it along. It's making it
slower and we have to we have to stop and think, oh, did we ask CBA and then CBA has to walk across the room, >> but they're just going to go after us. There's not no stopping and thinking it's going to four five six and then we'll make our motions. I apologize for interrupting,
but we have our budget budgets in front of us and for the public who hasn't seen this print out, it's this big. It's over 400 pages and CBA has the same. So, you're asking them every single time to get up with their budget instead of just quietly being at a table where when
after the council has has rendered their input that they just raise their hand if they have anything to add. >> Well, the majority of the council and the administration prefers we do this. So, we're going to move on and do it that way without further discussion. >> Well, I there were when you say the
majority, how was that pulled? Because I was not even pled to discuss this. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> can you respond to that? >> Yeah, I had asked people individually. >> You did not ask me. >> Well, we did talk about it >> and I and I >> and you voiced your concern.
>> I I just wanted that we can not labor the location of a advisory board. Uh if you would like to make a motion, councilwoman recommendation, we can do that other instead of debating back and forth.
>> Fine. Thank you. Um I would like to make a motion then if um that CBA have a seat at the table, not on the deis but a seat at the table so that they can sit comfortably and that they have a mic and we don't have to do this back and forth and make it so obvious that they when
we're when we're calling them to discuss. They have been helpful to us. They helped us last year. This is not just an advisory board. This this board has been phenomenal for us. So they they should have a seat at the table. My motion is to add them to the table.
Is there a second? Sleep to the table. Motion. >> There's no second to the motion. >> Yeah. Let's move on. Okay. >> Can I start? >> Yes. >> Can I start? Good evening everyone. >> Good evening.
>> Good evening. >> Good evening, council president and council. So, um I'll try to miss anything. >> I'm sorry. One one second. Let me just go to the page for the public uh at home. Um and I I apologize for interrupting. I just wanted
>> So for the public at home, we're going to be looking at page 78, which is the 2026 salary worksheet for the planning department. And for those that have the bigger
budget, I apologize. I Oh, no, no, no. I take it back. 78 is for those with the big budget, I believe. Right. >> Yes. If you have the 400page budget, it's page 78 we're going to be starting with.
>> Online was online. Next week's >> no big page on the 204 199 2000 203 and 204 pages I had for next day think
>> page 78 Today >> we're gonna start. >> Good evening everyone. I I I don't want to start on salaries. I I want to um for the last I don't know been here 24 years. I think I've been representing
probably for 20. I am always going to start out with um advocacy from my department to alert the town and to always reiterate the type of employees that we have within the department which is planning and development. It's not
zoning enforcement. It is planning and development which includes three to four divisions. We have two secretaries. A part-timer that's planning board and zoning board secretary also have a part-timer. three inspectors, that's the
housing division, three full-time inspectors, um rent leveling and section 8, one employee and myself. Um we have two employees that don't live in town and most of them do. And I I
just want to give you an example of um their dedication. On Easter Sunday, um, as I was leaving my mother's for for dinner, I get a call from this guy over here and, uh, something happened at one of our complexes,
>> a very serious problem. It was flooding. We had to relocate people and, um, I'm on Valley and I was like, "Okay, I'll go to the office, get the emergency numbers, right, so so we can get these people settled." Um, in the meantime, I am communicating with the staff. They're
like, "Janice, I'll meet you at the office. It's Easter Sunday. I'll meet you down here." No, no, no. I'm going to go down. I'm going to get the phone number, the emergency number. In the meantime, like within 40 minutes, we end up speaking to the person in charge of that particular complex. DBW
had already been there. We had already reached out to Laura. She already had called some of the hotels. So, I I just want the audience, the public, everyone that's listening to me to know about the dedication of this staff. I can't speak for anybody else. DBW was there. I
thanked them. Laura called hotels and in the end by midnight, right? Because some people had to be relocated. Um the goal was to make sure some of the residents got into hotel rooms or whether they went to a family's home. Um
and then the next day we followed up. So, I wanted to start off with that because every year I come and I talk about the dedication of the staff and I have to tell you honestly, they probably don't feel that way. They should feel
um appreciated. And so, that's where I want to start. So, I know we're starting at salaries, but all the people in my staff, they're at their maximum. And guess what? We keep piling on more and more. We have a person that's going to be leaving on maternity. all her work is going to come
into the department. I have a consultant that's going to do a little bit of that work, but the phone calls, um, any information, all that will come to the planning and zoning board secretaries that already take in applications, lead
certificates, mercantile license, every CCO has to be scheduled or rescheduled, phone calls, line out the door. So, I just want to set the stage before we talk about salaries. What do they mean? Let's go to page.
What's this? Page 78. 58,000. They're at their maximum, the two secretaries. I have a part- timerr secretarial assistant. Um, she works maybe eight hours a week. She's part-time.
Um, and I'm happy to announce that we have filled the vacancy for deputy director, senior code enforcement person. Um, do you want me to talk about the person or should I >> I will just say
you want the background. >> Okay. Um, we are lucky enough, I'm lucky enough to be able to bring in a person with over 18 years of code enforcement experience, zoning experience. Um, and
I I don't know if you can uh kind of visualize, but that particular position is really critical for our department. And it's critical because I can take eight hours off and not have to come into the office because I've gotten 20
calls to my personal phone and come in here at 5:00 because I am the only person that knows zoning. Under municipal annual law, the township has a responsibility to have other individuals know zoning beside me. I'm just lucky enough to be healthy and not
to have taken a sick day off. So, it's really critical that we have this person um hopefully they'll be starting this summer, but they have a tremendous amount of experience. Obviously, they'll have to learn on code, learn zoning, um learn the township, but um I am excited
to be able to bring in somebody that can kind of start shadowing me. Uh last year we talked about um person possibly taking that job and that you know did not come to fruition. So um
that's it for that um that portion of my budget. Um so just to go through the numbers uh the the increase for uh 2026 is 109,800 um $19,028.
Um the main driver of that is that deputy director vacancy for 120,000. Um we also have uh some step movements, but as you can see, everybody uh that's full-time that's uh currently
uh filling a role is maxed out in terms of steps. So any future salary increases would be COLA increases whether they are uh in the ASME union. We have two keyboarding clerks. So they will receive 3% next year pursuant to the contract or
in the non-UN would be subject to the SA ordinance, whatever that may end up being for 2027. Um we also have a secretarial assistant part-time role. Uh it's an hourly role. Uh, and we have a small increase that
we're asking for for this year to um to fill some of those duties that Miss uh Gary Adams uh spoke about related to an employee that may be going or will be going out on a medical leave and there's going to be some additional work for
that secretarial assistance. So, we asked for um some some additional monies for that. Um we have uh an overtime um budget that um we are asking for. We did not expend last year, but we do have
some expenditures this year. Um so we are asking for 4,200 in overtime. >> Yes, Councilwoman. Um, since this person is going to be coming in at midyear, can we reduce the $120,000
salary to when they projected to start so that we can reduce that line of >> Oh, yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Um, you know, when we first put this together, we obviously I didn't know when that person would start, but absolutely. I think we said July 1, correct? >> July July 6th.
>> July 6th. So, yeah, we we could essentially cut this in half. Yeah. >> Yes. Councilwoman, >> so I know we're in this section, but so I guess where I thought that you were
looking to hire somebody was in the building department in >> that's separate. That's going to be Tom. >> Yeah, >> Tom is coming after me. >> There's a vacancy in there, too. So, when we get to UCCC, you'll see that vacancy as well. >> I thought that was this. No, no, that's
a building inspector role in UCCC. >> Okay, so then my apologies. I was Okay, so here's here's my issue. My issue is going back to my notes and reviewing my budget today. We did take this out last year >> and the code enforcement the person the
officer >> No, we took this out. I looked it up. >> We did. I remember too. And and not that we can't talk about whatever, but again, I'm just going to go back to us jumping the gun with hiring people
before we have positions in, you know, in the budget. Um, and I know your department and no one fights harder than you, director. You are awesome and all of you are overworked. You know, I have to think
I'm thinking it was in the other department. Somebody was coming in. So, you have somebody coming in that department, too, or you you because that one we didn't take out last year. We reduced the lineup. >> Additional. You and I had a conversation earlier this week. This is specifically
for zoning. This person, that's what we spoke about. This person is for the zoning. >> You said inspect. David to be doing >> inspection work. Yes, they're going to be doing code. >> I thought it was in the other part of the budget. The other inspectors are construction would be the the building,
the uh plumbing, >> mechanical, electrical, and fire. And and plumbing and mechanical is the same person. Say you it's typically the same individual does both uh jobs with the license. In fact, we just uh recently lost the plumbing and we just as of the
other day, we lost the electrical inspector. So, we're down two. >> Yeah, because I know we've been having trouble with inspectors because it's hard to keep people on. >> This this position we spoke about the other day. This is specifically to help us with code enforcement, with overcrowding, with looking for overnight
parked cars. This is all in response to the things that we that have been a concern of the council and that the the director needs direct. >> That's that's what this was about. >> Okay. So, let me ask something about the other your other code enforcement
officers. You said, "Aren't they trained in zoning as well?" >> No, they're not. I say that every year. I say that every year. No. The The job that was deleted last year was my fourth property
maintenance inspector. Not the deputy director. >> No, it was. It was the deputy director. >> Well, if it was the deputy director, no one said it to me. >> I think we all did that to me. >> Who is going to do >> because it was a high ticket item person. and we didn't want to commit.
Did somebody I I don't know. Somebody >> We could go back and watch. >> Okay. I I just need time to think about it. >> Council. >> So So who does the town expect to do zoning
al along with me? Zoning is separate. That's a separate skill set from code enforcement and property maintenance. Yes. Council. >> Yes. Councilwoman Last year, we sat at this table and the council pretty much every single one of
us said, "We need a full-time planner." A full-time planner, no zoning. And that's where what we need. That's what we need in West Orange. We don't need a >> a deputy director. We need a full-time
planner who has zoning um skills. They know zoning, and that's where we should be going. >> I would I cannot um approve funding for this position. This is what we've all wanted. This is what we've all asked for. It's been kicked down the road. We
were promised this. We did a switch to try and get this. We were told we would get this. This department needs a full-time planner. >> I don't disagree with you. >> Okay. Well, then >> we don't disagree with you, but planners do not do zoning.
They do not build. They do not do site plan review for building permits. I've been doing this 25 years. Councilwoman planners create the plan for the board. They do
master plan. They do code revision. They do not go out and do zoning inspections. Nor do they write tickets for use. That that is not and in addition council president and council woman we were in
interviews am I not right for planners not one of them knew anything about zoning they might be familiar with the code they don't do what the zoning officer does that's not a part of
their responsibility for any town >> I go to these classes all the time not the I don't disagree with you that we should have a full planner, but we don't we don't have one right now. And the ones we interviewed, council president and council woman that not one of them
new zoning that I think it's different. I think you guys are mushing it together. It's that's not a thing where the planner would get in the car and go out and do site plan review. >> No, I understand that. But a a planner knows zoning and what we are hiring here
is a very highlevel position. I understand that the planner is not going out and doing site visits. That that is a different job. That's a lower level job. And if that is what you're looking for, then we should be putting that in. But to be putting in a highlevel deputy
director, again, not meeting the the need of this town, which is rapidly developing without a full-time in-house planner. I I cannot support that. >> I would have to agree. I could not support that position either.
>> Because that particular position was changed. >> Someone should have said to me. >> We did. >> We did last year. >> No, because when I came here originally, I don't when I did my budget presentation. I did
my budget presentation. >> Yeah. >> Weeks later, I found out that some of my budget lines were reduced. I don't I don't really have a budget. You I I I almost have nothing to work with in my in in the one of the busiest departments
in this city. You cut everything. Everybody was cutting the lines. At no point was I told that we were cutting the deputy director because we wouldn't have hired the person then. Who I I have a question. Who is going to do zoning?
Who's going to do it? Councilman, >> could could somebody tell me when the council was notified about the administration's decision not only to hire into this position, but
according to the notes we got back, you've already hired that person to start in July. So, when I read the when I read the budget, it was a surprise to me. So, maybe I missed something. This was a this was a conditional offer of employment because based on what we were
saying here that this position was looked for for last year and we were looking to fill this position. We advertised for because the director does need help. We need a zoning a second to do the zoning a second person. The the director is working um 90 hours a week
at minimum. Um and she doesn't have all that time to do the job. We need to she does the planning work. We look to switch to break it up into two departments. planning and zoning. But if if everybody recalls based on the fact that a planner if we were going to put into a separate department that would
require a department head to be created and the fact is that department heads is co-terminus with the mayor and and this was happening in January to hire somebody for 11 months or whenever and and actually we began as we we were stated we we interviewed four people I
think it was in January and it turned out that we weren't going to hire because of the co- terms because nobody was going to take a job that is less than 11 months and to be here. So, we went back into the other position to say while the director can still do some of the planning, she needs help with the zoning. And that's what and we also need
help with the enforcement because we're getting all kinds of calls and and and a and asking for um uh apartments that are are not legal, apartments that are overcrowded, conditions that are are are building up and it's exceeding the
capability of our our staff. So, we need to put forward a department that's going to be able to meet the needs of the township and meet the needs of the residents so that we don't run into these problems. And when we have overcrowded apartments, that's when we run into issues, whether it be whether
it be a health issue, whether it be a safety issue, whether it be a fire issue. We have we have reports all the time of of basements being split up to four bedrooms in there for people to hotcot. And and if you don't know what a hot cot is, that somebody goes in there and somebody leaves and then vice versa.
We've had that situation for years. So, so what the ask was and what we did do is we went based on what our previous what our ask was from last year to go forward to help out this director. >> I have two questions >> if I could. Oh, go ahead. Council President, I think I have the floor. Go
ahead. If I still do. I'm trying to find out when it is that the administration told the council that they were looking to fill this position at $120,000 and in fact extended an offer for the person to start on July
1st because I missed it. >> So, Councilman, we we put it in the budget so the budget was there. We did not inform the we never inform the council whenever we do a conditional offer of employment because we do it all the time. That's the that's the function of the administration. That's the function of the mayor to to move it
forward. So, we did not send that to you. So, I can tell you that was not sent to you. Um, we didn't do that. We haven't done it. And and that's just not our practice. It's never been that way ever prior to me sitting in this office or anyone else. I mean, we just hired
police officers. We didn't tell you that we just hired police offic. We just hired firefighters. We have six in the academy. We didn't inform you of those either. We That's just part of the everyday operation of the administration. >> So, Mr. I I think you would acknowledge that not
just me but other people on the council have been asking for months to become more engaged and involved in the hiring practices of the township especially at the higher levels. >> Okay. And I think you would acknowledge that we have told you this is an
administrative function. That's we're not >> I mean a councilman that's just we we here to work with one another and I I I am here to work with you but >> but I can't check with you every single day when we go to to do that. We know we we hire people. We put them forward. You
know we've had so many different positions and we do it based on the budget and that and you authorizing the budget whether you authorize this position or not is how we move forward with this. So that's so that's what you're going to that's what we're here for today. Councilwoman. >> So
>> uh Councilman Koviaak still has the floor. Are you >> okay? The reason I have asked previously just to get an email when you are planning to hire somebody at the high level I don't think is a is a burden and
it's certainly I I certainly don't want to be impeding on the mayor's uh statutory responsibilities. So I'm not trying to do that. But when we come here and we find out that we've hired somebody apparently at a at over $120,000 and that's of course just the
base, you know, the with all the other benefits and stuff, it's probably another $50,000. I have trouble accommodating that sort of what I consider to be at some sort of
intrusion on our budgeting and and financial responsibilities as accounts. So, I I just want to raise this because I I again, this is not the first time I've raised it. I don't think the other council people will would say the that the same thing. And it's not anything
having to do with uh Miss Adams need for zoning. She has made that perfectly clear pretty much the whole time I've been on the council. So, it's not that. It's that we get it at the last minute. we've already hired somebody and uh if we're looking for
zoning experience, you if you ask me, I don't think we necessarily need to start at $120,000. Exactly. >> Uh in a base salary, particularly on a year when we're asking when we're trying to whittle down a little bit uh under $6
million in increased uh cost that's going to go directly into uh taxes. So, >> so, so one of the things I would respond to that councilman is that we've we've talked we've spoken about here both in our dialogues that we're looking for succession planning. Um, and part of
this reason was that our our director here, whether she is or not, is el going to be eligible to retire in the near future. We need to start planning ahead and and our current staff doesn't have that capability. And whether the
director here stays for one month or 100 more years, which I don't think he will, um it we need to start we need to start planning for that person to help replace and we felt with this particular person that would be part of our succession
plan to help with um >> I apologize. I didn't want to say >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's well, they just do that for me all the time. So, um, so that's so that's what we're looking for is to is to start developing a succession plan so that we can we can
have that in place because it's just not easy to to come across these people in these positions. So, >> I get it. >> Yes. >> Okay. And and I I do know that we have been talking about succession planning not only for all the upper level but in this particular area. So, I I
acknowledge that too. It's just I open up the I open up the uh uh the material and I find that we've already hired somebody and uh if I had my brothers, I would I would prefer not to add another
120,000 plus salary plus all of the benefits uh uh and find out about it that it's in the that it's in the uh the budget already. I also asked uh I I know I haven't given you much time. I emailed
yesterday and I asked for a job description for this person. So I would very much like the council to get the job description so that we could get more familiar with this. >> Please. >> And then I just had one one other question which was the addition of the
hourly pay from $18,200 last year to $22,000 this year. That's just extended hours. That's not an increase in the per hour uh >> extended hours. Yeah. No change to hourly rate. It's just additional hours. >> Thank you.
>> Yeah. Thank you. I I have to agree this is no time to be hiring a deputy director. Um can this position be filled with a part-time person maybe on an as needed basis? >> No. the the the person and I'm gonna apologize because I I really feel I I I
I don't even believe this is happening because no way no one told me that this particular job was not budgeted. No one told me this position was not budgeted. That's not how I conduct myself. That's not how I conduct business. So that to
me right there is terrible. Well, we should have had the budget earlier and then you would have known that it wasn't budgeted and we did take it out last year. administration how it got put put back in >> but >> right so I will say this um council president it's hard enough to find
someone to do zoning less loan part-time >> okay >> the person needs to spend most of the day with me so that that's not going to happen so >> can we train any of our existing employees type of job >> don't want to do it
>> none of our existing Have you ever out in a car with me. Have you ever been with me from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.? >> Yeah, it's not a >> They don't want to do it. I've asked I have an experienced person. He's been with me 18 years. He's like my
work husband. He wouldn't touch zoning with a 10ft pole. Code enforcement, property maintenance. Okay. Not zoning. Completely different animal. So, to your point, I wish I wish somebody else would take it. >> Yeah. >> We need to think outside the box how to do these things.
>> Okay. Um, council go from there. >> Yes. I just I would like to respond to Mr. Smearaldo just in terms of the dialogue between the council and the administration. We're not asking to be included on every vacancy that you're
filling. You're filling a a position that is vacant. This is a new hire. This is a new position that we were not told of and it's a significant. It's not a fill-in for a police position that vacates and then you're doing a new hire. We don't need to be involved at
that level, but at this level we do. And and I am very sorry, Miss Adams, that um that you did not know that this this was not budgeted, but honestly, that's not our job. It's the administration that should have told you. No, I'm I'm just
clarifying that that is not that is not the council's role. The administration should tell you that they are considering a position and if it is approved by the town council then we will be able to move forward. To do this in a way that you've now involved
another person is unfair. It is unfair and it's happened before and it happened very recently just a few weeks ago and this is not the way that an administration should be run. So I am sorry for you know you being caught off
guard at this point. >> I know I would >> and I I would say that two two other things. Number number one that there if what you're looking for is a zoning
officer then let's hire a zoning officer. And from what I know about reading about the people in your in your department, there is one person who was who was a licensed zoning officer and
okay, if you're saying she doesn't want it, then she doesn't want it. But there was somebody in the department. >> Yeah. Last year we were hopeful. Yes. Okay. >> Remember when I was here last year, I said I took your suggestion. >> Okay. So what I would suggest is that
hiring a zoning official to do the leg work that you need and not a high level position like this. >> So in accordance with the state and and civil service, we're only allowed one zoning official per township. So this is the zoning official right here, right in front of you. We cannot hire another
zoning official. There's only one permit. >> So So I'm confused now. So what was the >> this person would be the assistant? We can have we could have as many assistants as we want. We can only have one zoning official per municipality. >> His title would have been chief
enforcement offic. >> Yeah. >> Then can we have a I'm sorry, a zoning assistant? >> That's up to the council. I I'm >> Well, I that's what >> that's what you're saying that that's what you need help with is the zone is
somebody else to help you with zoning, but you can't call it another zoning officer. >> Correct. Correct. >> I've never heard that before, but >> Yeah. No, each town is only allowed one zoning officer. >> Okay. So, then then we could come we could be creative about finding another name for that person who can do zoning,
who can go out in the field. >> That's this person, chief code enforcement officer. That's this person. Yes. Selena, >> so here's here's my my dilemma. It has nothing I I I know your needs and I love to give you whatever you need, but
here's what we're facing. And and today I had a very I felt bad. I had a a really tough call with with with the superintendent Moore to see how they were doing because I watched their meeting last night and to
to see him and known him as many years as I've known him and to have to let let those people go and to see him and break up over, you know, and I've known him since he was a little kid. Brian Readington, one of our >> I know me, too. I know half of the
people that are being laid off. and and so it's it's it is it it's tough. It's like sad really. And we've been fortunate enough here where we can't give everybody what they need, >> but we've haven't had to go there yet. And and it's tough. I did it when I was
when Chris Christie came in and we had to let 35 only 35 people many years ago off off. It was heartbreaking then. So, we're trying not to get in that situation with with us. you know, a couple years
back we had inequities and you know, the directors were beneficiaries of us straightening that out and rightfully so. And the salary guides we straightened out and um so the problem with the guides and what we're having placing people on the different
positions and what we're trying to get administration to understand is is we're looking at five years out. It's not what this person will be making today. that person's going to be way up there in five years >> and that's an issue for us as as a as a
governing body. So, so that's where we're frustrated. So, where I want to give you something, I know that number in five years is going to be in a place that is we just can't sustain this any longer. So, I don't I don't know what my
answer is right now because I gota I gota deferred to the CFO. But um and I know you feel like, you know, we're we're you know, we're we're busting your chops and and we're not. We're not. We're really not. We we have and it's tough. You know, we go in close
session with the labor attorney and everybody knows we're in there. We've been in there for a while, for hours. >> We have a lot of problems. We have a lot of problems and we're trying to be um mindful, but you know, we're not, you
know, we don't have to lay anybody off in this budget, which is awesome, but we're also have to be careful with the vacant positions, you know, other than police and fire. No one should and directors that are waiting to come shouldn't expect anything. And um
>> but Councilwoman Castle, >> I know >> the issue is every director in this township has somebody that answers their phone calls, >> can take notes for them, can do part of their work. Every single director in
this township has someone that assists them except for me. >> I know >> everyone know except for me. I know >> if you look at every department, everyone has an assistant or a deputy.
Every single one. I'm not fighting for the person, but I'm just telling you the reality. The reality when you get the phone call that someone says, "Oh my god, she has 50 million permits on her desk." But but we we are trying to figure out our our de our interesting
>> our task of putting anybody new on >> the the exist the existing salary guide. I'm going to be honest with you. >> So >> I'm I'm just saying that every director has an assistant sent me. I just want to put that out. They understandbody knows understand that. So that's what
>> I don't think I'm edited every year probably for the last 10 years. I've been in this position so >> I understand. I understand. >> I just want to put it out there. I'm not angry or anything. I'm not trusting my child. >> You have to understand we're like it we're in between as we're trying to to
move forward with it's a balance. And not saying that the administration isn't. It's just and and I feel bad for Mr. Smaldo because he's in a really tough spot lately. Really tough spot. um he's trying to do the right things and it is the right thing to do to get you
somebody. It really is. But again, it's just when we get tripped up once we put somebody on that guide, it's off to the races and we got to be careful about that. And we'll leave it there. Council >> woman. >> Thank you, Council President. Um I have
a couple of concerns. Um some that we've already spoken about. um some that we continue to speak about which is our budget crisis not just at the board of ed but with the township as well. Um
I obviously was not here last year for that budget discussion andor the reduction. Um but it should have been in the finalized budget. The other point is is this is the mayor's presentation of a budget and in this presentation of a
budget um she included this new position understanding um the strain that is on this particular department. Um, I am very concerned that of our nine departments that we have in the municipality, um, and this one that
brings in the most revenue is not adequately staffed. And we're looking at continuing to cut, cut, cut. And we want our town to do better. And we want this department to be more
responsive. And as a council, I believe that we have to make those decisions based on the needs. We sat around this day and we listened to us, as I continue to say, as opposed to our professionals who do this job every day, whatever
their role in the administration is. And we argue with them and tell them how they do their job. And unfortunately, we're none of us are zoning officials. None of us are code enforcement and and I just am concerned when we sit around
and tell our administrators what they should and shouldn't be doing. If we're not going to finance this position, if we're going to have it removed from the budget, then let's do that and move on. >> Um,
can we talk about something else? Yeah. on this topic on yeah I I just on the same budget before we we finish up >> do hold on to Mr. Dutin. >> Hi, Councilman Korak. Do you want to go before me? >> What? Counciloman has the floor.
>> Councilman, before we move off of this subject, I just wanted to say I I don't know what the interest of the council is, but I would certainly be open to a discussion of a lower level person who
might come in to help with the zoning issues. >> That was my recommendation. and and but I don't know what else. I just want to throw that out. That's all I want to say. >> Councilwoman Ruben has the floor. >> Um so aside from this issue, I wanted to
look at the secretarial assistant. I think um Councilman Graovia, do you want to >> Council President, if I could speak about the topic that we just discussed, is that okay? If I can make a few points. >> Yeah. >> That I think are important.
>> Go ahead. My recommendation to this council is that you codify the departments and you set the positions by code instead of relying on budget documents to say was that in there was that not in there. I would codify and we
have an attorney here who I would hope would agree with me that that's how many municipalities their their t uh to um so that's a recommendation to you. The one thing I will also say is that at the last
meeting you took out the department head uh public works director out of the budget. So we're going to have to remove that for next year. Right. We took him out. We zeroed him out. Um, the other recommendation, and it's not so much budget related, but uh I would not
discount the potential new hire. You know, maybe maybe there is a way you can speak to Mr. Smaldo and and and Director Adams about learning about who this candidate is, what they can bring to this community. You know, maybe then
that 120,000 that's up there will will make more sense. Uh, so I wouldn't just discount it and say, "Let's just get you a low-level employee to do some of these zoning things." I would really learn about who this candidate is and and they might be in you might discover that they
are worth the 120,000 or whatever it is, you know, that we're going to be offering them. So, keep an open mind. We still have more budget hearings to go. We can always revisit this, but you know, please just keep an open mind on this because as Director Adams says, she
doesn't have a deputy. She has secretarial personnel and she has inspectors. There's nobody that's there to assist her with higher level things. She The reason she's so thin, she zooms around this place. I I mean like the
work never ever ends. So, please give her the courtesy of of hearing out in more detail in maybe a different setting why this deputy director is necessary, not just for her, but for this township. So, that's my plea to you. Um, and I
know that Mr. Smaldo and Director Adams will will obviously uh answer your questions about who this person is. Um, >> okay. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Um, yes. I I I wanted to
um veer to a different subject. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Um which is which is the secretarial assistant. >> Yes. >> Um last year um the secretary earned uh just under $11,000
>> and this and she was budgeted for 18 182 as was mentioned by my colleague. um this year to date she has she has earned $3,800 >> and um this the increase from 182 to 22
was a 21% increase and I would like to um find out why you need that many hours. I know she'll be filling in for the person who will be on leave, but it's almost there's almost no way that
to work that many hours to get up to 22. >> So, if you can elaborate on that, please. >> Well, this person who is in this position already has a a full pension. So, >> what does the pension have to do with her working part-time for me? No, I mean
they're already they're already I don't believe that this person is going to be working th that those hours. >> So if you can't predict the number of hours, but I'm here on Saturday. She could work for me on Saturday. There's a lot of projects. There's a lot of things that are falling through the cracks that
I will need her for. Not only her, but the overtime budget for the other secretaries. So that's why I put the increase in. And I don't know what's going to happen with an employee leaving on medical leave for six months. What that's going to do to the department?
>> Who's going to need our I 6 months? Not till 2027. >> Why is that person not in the budget that we can see? >> That individual is fully funded by um the section 8 housing program through HUD. Um, we are allotted administrative
fees for that particular individual, that individual specifically. We are allotted admin fees and that covers that person's salary and uh FICA and Medicare costs for that individual. So taxpayers do not have to pay for uh that person's salary.
>> How much is that? >> Um, what what is that particular individual? 122 >> 122. >> Correct. Yeah. As the executive director of the HUD. Yes. >> So, but is it possible that just in the
future that you can put that in just so that we know that there is that position and even though it's and then you put zero asking for salary because it's covered. >> We could list that. Yeah. Sure. Sure. But there's no impact on our current fund budget for
>> Okay. for that individual. >> My my my question is I mean we're going up considerably. Not very much has been used and um >> are you still talking about the secretarial assistant? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. So I mean we you're increasing it
by 21% ask but yet last year there was only 11,000 used and I understand that you need extra help but this seems like a big >> put it back to 18 then. >> Okay. Council
>> woman. >> Yeah. I I I again I mean can if we're going to make those recommendations to cut the budget, can we do this by motions so that we can then have the appropriate discussions or something?
because just throwing out numbers I I just don't understand where we're going. We can discuss this ad nauseium, but we need to start making recommendations so that we can move this along. I'm very concerned about doing anything to that line item.
Again, reiterating that someone who is handling a major department, whether they're listed in this budget or not, because of no financial impact, is leaving. That means that her department is going to be overwhelmed with those responsibilities, added
responsibilities, and then of course increased work. So the fact that she hasn't spent it doesn't mean she's not going to. And if it doesn't get spent, then we just it it what happens when we don't spend full line items? It goes back into the budget and it can be
reallocated for something different. So if we don't spend a line item, it can be moved in the last two months of the year to another line item >> without consent and approval. >> Your consent approval, two-thirds approval as as a resolution. If nothing
happens and it just is unspent, it stays in what we call the appropriation reserve budget for an entire year. So 2026 would stay through 2027 and at the end of 2027 it goes into operations and
is used to regenerate fund balance as unspent appropriations. >> Okay. >> I think um CBA wanted to weigh in. >> Well, we got to finish our discussion. >> Yeah. Will we finish with this? >> I I Yeah. Well, there's one more thing. >> Okay. We'll do one more and then we'll
have you at the end of the page. And we're not going to do any motions until we hear from everyone. >> Okay. So, I'm I'm also concerned about overtime, not just in your budget, but in every single budget where we can
where we can work it. So, to date, um $1,2 have been spent. You're asking for 4,200. >> Yes, I cut it last year. >> And I would I would like to know I understand that you have early calls,
you have late calls, you have weekend calls. Is there some other way to do this without incurring overtime? >> Yeah. >> Well, you don't get overtime. >> I'm not I'm not speaking about the director. >> Yeah. No, I I don't get overtime. >> I know. >> But
is there some way to do it? Yeah. I mean, if you want them to work 10 to 8, 7 to 3, there's still going to be things that happen after work hours or before work
hours. Now, I I probably hold to my budget more than anybody. I'm going to say that. I try not to spend the money. I live here. But yet, $4,200 is pennies on what I may need. I don't know what's
going to come up, Councilwoman, honestly, in July. I don't know what's going to come up in August. It's really hard. It's only May 5th. I I literally I'm supposed to buy them laptops. I haven't even done that. You're going to see all I haven't done it yet because I
haven't gotten to it because I'm too busy doing the other stuff. So, I I just say, "Yeah, I I can use other methods, but that's not really good for the staff either." >> Okay, >> it really isn't. I mean, we we talk
about comp time and things like that. Those are other options. But guess what? If I do comp time, all right, when you're sitting here 10 years from now and I'm now making $70 an hour, you're going to pay them out the $70. So you either pay the nap the time and
nap or you pay them the cough time. You tell me how to manage my department. >> Counciloman Kesler. >> Uh this for Mr. Datiniac. So this position which guide uh with the position go on for the deputy.
>> Um so there's a deputy director um tier. Uh I don't have it in front of me. Um but there is an established salary ordinance tier. Uh and I think what the salary that was chosen is step seven I believe.
>> Yeah. >> So so >> so just I'm sorry I don't know if sorry director. So just one last question. So that's a non-contractual staff. >> Correct. Unrepresented management ordinance. Correct. >> Here's our dilemma. We've been having other conversations on what we need to
do. Mhm. So my problem is not so much getting you help, it's it's the guide and and the amount. >> Yeah. >> So that's >> person already makes that, >> you know. No, no, no. So again, so these are offline conversations that we
shouldn't be discussing here. >> So um that's my issue tonight. my my issue tonight because we've been getting as you know hammered and and so and we always feel like we're in the position >> where you have to vote that night or
else you know the world's going to end. So >> that's the other problem. >> Understand you get no argument from me like I said to the point what councilman councilwoman Ruden is I I would like that that's an administrative or me as director how I manage my department. Do
I give them comp time? Seriously. Yeah. And I can do that, but then on the back end, everybody gets mad when the person makes $10 more an hour and now you're paying them out. >> Yeah. >> So, so you know, that's that's I'd almost rather pay them the overtime now and get it done with because then I have
to manage the comp time. They get to take off the comp time with people who already have a lot of time. >> I'm not worried about your overtime. You can manage that, director. I I'm just concerned about where to find the >> best not to go over. I never ever ever in my 24 years I've gone over my
overtime bud ever. Ever. >> I know. >> Ever. >> I'm fine with your overtime. >> It's it's the position. >> I get it. >> You know, we we have that that situation we got to we have to deal with. >> Are you finished? >> I'm done.
>> Okay. Do any of my colleagues have any other questions before I invite C Baba? And I just want to say something too about my train the training too because we um we were lucky enough last year to only have to pay for one fire class. Um
Captain Veio um was able to train two of our inspectors for free. Thank God. So that was like almost $2,000 I was able to save last year because I'm cognizant of the budget. We appreciate it.
Thank you. Um, quick question first. Um, the person that you hired, do you have a number that you hired them at? Is it the 120 or what what's the number that we're looking at the real number?
>> So, it's it's $123,000 annually. >> Okay. Um, more to the discussion, the back and forth about the administration informing counsel and having communication. Um
the this is it it's not about so much letting the council know that that to have a say in the whole matter >> but they do have authority. >> Are you talking to me or are you talking to the VA? Um
every because I'm a director and I would love to because >> Yeah, it's probably I I get all I'm looking to point out though is that if the administration had advised the >> Sure. Sure. >> then the council probably would have come back and said this was removed from
budget last year. >> You get no argument from me. None. Um the other thing uh to point out too is that there are other departments that don't have uh deputy user assistance. I think the >> they might not have a deputy but they
have an assistant that when they come back they don't have 42 emails and 25 phone calls. >> Understood. >> Please tell me one. It's only me. It's only me. And I don't I call out my colleagues. I love my colleagues. But every single department has somebody
else. The only other comment I'll I'll refer back to CABAB's original report from last year and one of the recommendations was to implement a hiring freeze. >> Okay. >> Um for obvious reasons
>> so >> that's fair. >> That's really all I've got. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. It's it's hard. My only comment, Todd, is is is it's hard to find somebody with this type of experience
>> that have been in the trenches. You don't just bring somebody in that knows code enforcement. You got to have a certain personality, >> right? You you have to know that you're going to be saying no a lot of times and people are going to be pushing back at you. You have to know how to take the
plans and go out on the road and meet with residents. Those things are so difficult to train and when you have somebody that has that type of experience that many number of years that you're not going to find another person like that. Trust me, you're not
going to find another person like that. >> I would also just as an ask is the suggestion of Mr. Tenny act is that we provide you with this person's resumes and if we can have a side conversation ultimately this budget has to be decided
and whether we decide tonight or another night if you're going to remove it you remove it but at least give us an opportunity to make that presentation to you so you can you consider just for on behalf of the director here >> I think that I I think that's fair I
think it's fair Okay, we'll move on. >> Thank you. Finish your presentation. >> Is that your >> Councilman Kakoviac? >> No, I have anything else. Any any questions about the department or anything? I I I
>> What about Yeah. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> No, >> I didn't realize you wanted to stick around. >> Yeah, the rest today. So if anybody has >> so so I'm not sure where we are. I mean you want to evaluate this individual I
we we would be hiring a department >> right? >> Uh that's without hiring a planner first which is what we what we had discussed. >> I agree we need the planner. >> So at this point I would like to make a motion to remove that from this budget.
I would second that. >> Are we going to look at the person's resume first or no? >> I don't think it's necessary because I think what we're what we're talking about is that we need a planner >> and when we get a planner as we were promised last year, then we can consider
other positions that to be filled. >> Council, >> we do have a planner. We are planning to uh pay hire gruel $85,000 to be our planner this year and it's it appears to be the best that we can do uh given as
as Mr. Saro had said that it's it's extremely difficult to hire somebody for such a short time for a a position that's co-terminous with the mayor >> but that person's not managing the department they're just doing different planning services.
>> Yes. I just want to say that that is not our in-house planner. That is a planner for hire per job. We as council people have no input at all in terms of what that planner is doing. And that planner is not available to meet with all of our
departments as needed. It's not it's not the same position. >> And that person is also doing affordable housing. >> So So the only thing I'll say to that if if they wanted the planner to be available, they could be. I'm assuming um on a for an hourly rate without
benefits. And the other thing is I am the director of the department. I direct all the all the divisions of the department. Planner is different. I am the director of the department >> planner. That's how different.
So councilwoman, what was your uh motion? >> My motion was to eliminate that entire line item >> and I second it. >> And what was the line item? It is the vacancy for the de deputy director. >> I thought that was already eliminated last year. It was should never have been
in here which is why >> it's it's part of the budget ask. You introduced a budget with this amount in there. So is your motion to take $120,000 out of the 2026 budget? >> Yes. So >> is there a second?
>> I second it. >> I advise this council to vote no on that until you give the director and the BA some time to talk about this individual. I think it's shortsighted to do this right now. Council
>> Mtopia, >> uh I was u going to say essentially the same thing. Just as a reminder, when we take something out, if we want to put it back in at some later time, it takes four votes. So, uh I just want to be uh
knowledgeable about that. And uh at this point in the uh budget process, I do not see the harm in uh considering whatever the administration wants to uh tell us uh before we make a decision.
>> Well, we have a motion. We have motion. >> Yes. What usually happens is you have a motion, you have a second, and then Robert's rules of order say then you discuss it. >> Correct. >> So that's what I'm doing. I'm discussing it. >> Right. Yeah. when I'm finished. >> I have discussion. >> Yeah.
>> Um >> I I'm not going to support taking it out today, but I'm not saying that I'm not My issue is is the pricing and the and I have to see the resume and get a better I I I get it. I totally get all
that. But like I said, I keep going back to our other situation and watching the school board last night. I really I have to think more about this. I'm going to be honest with you. And and I I feel bad because I you know, we we went through this a couple years. Uh Director Cabbal
is sitting there right behind you and she waited three years for her her assistant. Um and it's a shame that we have to, you know, always make all of you wait. Um but again the the problem is that guide and we need to we have to
have a discussion about that. We have to have a discussion about that. So um I'm not ready to you know I need think I think we need to address that before one other person gets hired that's not a contractual employee. It has to get
fixed now. we can't be getting in this situation time and time again of, you know, we're we're talking about what to do. And I I really felt bad for all those people that lost their jobs la last night. It it cr it crushed me.
>> So, >> yeah, I'm going to ask my colleagues if you would resend your motion so we could >> um I had >> wanted Seb wanted to weigh in. >> Well, we're in the middle of vote. Counciloman discussion. No, this is a motion. They are not voting on us. They
don't get to talk. >> It's no disrespect, but it's it's not appropriate. >> It's procedure. It's procedure. >> It's not appropriate. >> We're in the middle of a motion. >> This is in a circuit >> and we're the body. >> So, are you going to call? >> Yeah, it sounds like a discuss public discussion is closed on this. We have a
motion, a second on the table right now. We're in We're in U council member discussion. >> Received it. Then we could reopen >> sitting. It's a council discussion. >> It's It's now closed to members of the public. It would be for the council members to discuss. Should the motion be
rescended, you could reopen? >> We call the vote. >> Yeah. Uh you ready to call the vote, Councilwoman Ruden, or do you have anything else to say? >> Um yes. I'm just want to clarify that that the CBA is not a member of the public. They are our advisory board,
>> right? Advisory board. different it's a different than than just the public >> and okay so if you want to be advised by an advisory board of the council I I >> to hear what >> I I would say that that would be appropriate yes >> I would like to hear from them before we
take the vote if >> then you should >> okay >> then you can >> come on up >> that's why they're advising us >> I don't >> the only thing I wanted to point out was that rather then remove $123,000
from the from the the budget. You should remove the position from the budget, >> right? >> That's the only thing. >> Yeah, we know >> that's that was the motion, right? >> Mhm. >> And I second it. So, we could >> The motion was to remove 120,000. It was
not to remove the position. >> Would you do you want to make a motion to >> to >> to remove the position? >> Yes, I'd like to make it on the floor. You have to the motion. Can we just get up to date on parliamentary procedure? M. >> So amend the motion.
>> Okay. I would like to make an amendment to the motion which is that I would like to remove the position of deputy director >> and I will second that. Now we need a vote on the amendment. >> Okay. >> Okay.
Vote on the motion to amend and then a vote on the actual amended. >> I'm sorry. Repeat that. >> Yeah, >> there's a mo there's a motion now to amend the prior motion. So, we need a motion. We need a vote on the motion to amend. >> Okay. Okay. All right. So, that's what
we'll have now. >> Councilwoman Castalina for the amendment. >> Yeah. Right now, I got I got to vote no until we I I flushed this out. I'm not saying I'm there, but I got vote now. >> Councilman Kovia, >> no. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no.
>> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. The motion fails >> to amend. >> And so now we still have the original motion on the table. >> Okay. >> And and can someone remind us what that motion was >> to remove >> to remove $123,000.
>> It was actually it was the the real figure is 123. >> Well, that was moved and seconded. >> I understand. >> You want to make an amendment then make an amendment. >> The Okay. I'd like to make an I'd like to just keep with what what I originally
said, which is I'd like to remove $120,000 which was written on this budget, right? >> And that was seconded, but >> Thank you. >> Um, >> vote on a motion to amend the motion. >> It was That's the original. >> That was the original.
>> They're saying the original. >> All right. Councilwoman Castelino on the original. >> Yeah. Right now, I'm going to vote no. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> no. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. Councilwoman Williams. No. Council President. The motion fails. >> Okay.
>> Is there anything else on this budget that we need to review? >> I think we're >> Excuse me. Are you running the meeting? Who's run the meeting? Could we just let the chair are you, please? >> Okay. I think we're finished with the with this group with the planning. >> Well, if the if the chair has to check
with another council member then to see if we're finished. >> I want to know if my colleagues have any other questions. Well, excuse me. I'll run the meeting. Do any of my colleagues have any other questions? Councilwoman. >> Yes, I do. So, I know that we need to we need to
>> approve each page. And at this point, the amendment are we pulling this whole thing to to discuss. >> We're not Well, >> we're not going to approve this page because you want to hear more about the qualifications of the applicant. >> Is that correct? Um
>> to be called on by the chair. Yes. >> I think we got to start doing. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, so I'll speak for myself. So, yes, I think I'm not prepared to vote on this section tonight. >> Got it. Right. >> So, >> okay. Do we have any other discussion on any of the other items on the next page?
>> I think this should be considered tabled until a future meeting. >> Yes. Yes. >> Do we have to make a motion to t >> It should be done by motion. Yes. >> So, I'll make >> motion to table to a future meeting. >> Second that. I'll make the motion. I >> for clarity, what are we motioning to
table? >> To table the um section the section. >> Okay. Can we the record so that we're clear because obviously there's some ambiguity. Let's say what section it is for the minutes so that everybody is on the same page. >> I would think that you're motioning um
to table the uh department of recre I'm sorry agenda the department of zoning enforcement's budget to a future meeting. Yes. Planning and planning. Yes. Department 30002, right?
It was tabled and second. >> Councilwoman Castelino to table. Councilman Kroviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council President Scorp. The motion carries. >> Okay. President, we are we done with the rest
of the >> So, we're done with planning, right? >> No, we're not. We have to send the department. >> Okay. Do you want to move 3102 page 80? >> Okay. So, we'll just do the Yeah. Okay. >> Go ahead. Did you want >> Are we on page 80?
>> Yeah. Page 80s. Yeah. >> Okay. So, I know that this this does not impact our budget, but I think one of the things that we're trying to do is to just get correct labels for what the
expenditures actually are. So, I um would like to just talk about just like clean this up a little bit. the um in line 090 under master plan mapping that
was actually money that was spent for economic development for Nishawane for last year >> and is there some way that we can label that correctly? Yeah, we'll label we'll re label it for what it was, economic development, and
repost onto the website uh an updated page 80 uh with that 2025 $25,000 charge. >> Okay. Thank you. Um and also I just want to make sure what we were paying Nishuain was $6,000 a month in each
category. So that actually should have been $24,000. Was it actually 24 or 25? Just check that when when you have a chance. >> It was $25,000 that we paid them. Yeah. Okay. It was one check for $25,000.
>> All right. Um, also I would like to um discuss line item 70 about the township planner. Um, again, we do not have a in-house full-time planner. We have a a a planner who we can call upon, but this
same planner is also working and getting paid through Escaro um for the planning board and the zoning board and also getting paid by us to do affordable housing and planning. That's a lot of different jobs. >> Yes. Um, we will most likely um I'd like
to I'd like to understand what you you you see as the planning need for this township for this um vendor um for the rest of the year because right to date she has she has um been
paid 16,520. She's been budgeted for 85,000. >> You you can answer one question. I'm going to answer. >> Sure. >> Um, Council President, so the the um the firm Hire Gro who we're talking about um received two resolutions. One to defend
the municipality in the affordable housing cases that we had the builder's remedy lawsuits and then we also uh did pass a resolution for $85,000 to be the township planner. That's why we have left over in this budget $85,314.
um the affordable housing is going to be charged to the separate trust. Uh that's why I pulled out money um in the decrease column. So I left in the $85,000 and you know an extra $300 for the actual planning services. So the
payer charge and and we can redo this sheet as well. The paid charge will reflect the incumbrance for the award of those planning services of $85,000. So, >> so that that paid charge that 170 >> that included affordable piece too
>> that doesn't come out of my budget. >> Yeah. When when um when purchasing booked uh the two resolutions, they put them against the the one line item. So, um so this this line item 070 just represents the $85,000
for uh planning services. So to answer your question, councilwoman, the the first thing that really is a priority we should have already started is revision of the code chapter 25 and redoing the master plan. The the master plan revision is really not due till 2029,
but because we're in this affordable housing >> debacle >> tornado um and not even just that, but it it it is time for us to redo the master plan. So I would be asking higher rule to separate
those those two responsibilities. One to redo the master plan and second to do a revision of chapter 25 which which the last time we did it was 2012. It took us a year and there's been three or four
um estimates from various planners to do it for us and we haven't done it yet. And our our code is like antiquated. They have words in there that they use from like 1902. It's terrible and I have to enforce it. So I I would say
that I I don't know how much of the 85 they would use, but I would split it out between re a revision of the code chapter 25 district regulations, how we do zoning setbacks. If you look at the zoning board um recommendations from their annual report, there's several
recommendations on things we should change where residents have to come to the board and the board says yes because the deck was supposed to be 30 and really it's 22. What what why would we have them pay that, you know, for two or three feet? Some of the things are just egregious. It doesn't make sense. So those type of codes really need to be
tightened up. We have 20 different zones, not including our redevelopment zones. You know how hard it is for me when I get a a email and I have to figure out I know this stuff off the top of my head, but for somebody else to have to do this. So that's something I
would expect or someone else to to redo and that's going to take a long time. That's not something you do in six months. You need a z committee. You need you need help from the community. You need land use attorneys that will volunteer their
time. We need police, fire, board of education. We got everyone in the room every other week for a year when we did the code last time and that's what we need to do again. >> Okay. So, I have a a response. >> Okay. >> Um, first of all, I absolutely do not
want Higher Group to be doing the master plan. >> Um, because I they have four or five different jobs right now going on in the municipality. We have had an excellent firm in the past. um who did a a a
terrific job and I would like to I I don't want to just outsource this to hire grl for that. I understand that you need to update the code. That's fine. But >> for the master plan, I cannot I cannot support that. >> Um
>> so I we're going to need to get a different um well well what I would say this, we need to get a um estimate from them as to how much that would cost. It runs usually 40,000 probably about half of this money. It it is intensive when you redo the entire code.
>> So is this something that she actually she's zoning board, planning board, affordable housing, plus a side planner for us plus she's going to be doing all of chapter 25, which does need to be updated. >> So that's a lot. >> So let me correct the record. She is not
the planner for the zoning board. CME has a planner and CME is the engineer for the zoning board. On the planning board side, she does planning board. Right. Correct. But part of planning board and municipal land use laws is affordable housing and everything else
that goes with the planning board. That's why it seems like she has a a a larger share of the pot. If you're saying in the council votes that she is not to do any of that, then we will have to outsource and go look for another planner to do that work. What I think we should do is revise the master plan
first and then update the code. >> Well, it really has to be done with the affordable housing plan. It's that's critical. >> So, the why not have have CME do the the master plan? >> I would look at I I would have Paula put it out and look at several different
planning firms. >> Okay. So, >> CME does a lot of work for us. >> They do, >> right? And even on the engineering side and we're looking at other engineers, sometimes we overextend ourselves with these different firms. So we we probably need
to put that out if you're saying that you want somebody else to do master plan. I don't know that that's the council's decision. That's >> okay. So I mean it sound it seems to me that the first step is to get the master plan redone and then you do the we haven't told them to do that yet because they're working on affordable housing. So that's something we're going to have
to them about, >> right? And so so for this particular line item, I do not think that we need a town the township planner should be getting an allocation of $85,000. Um because I'm not really sure what else
what else she would be doing. >> Well, it's not just she. It says township planner. So that might include two or three firms. It just says township planner. It doesn't mean it's that particular firm. >> It has I understand. But the $85,000 was
the allocation that was allocated to her. So I'm I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to, that it is for hire. We're not talking about hiring somebody else to be a planner. Um >> but what does her does she have a contract that says she has to do those things? Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, we did pass a resolution earlier this year um for that 85,000 for the planner and it is subject to the approval of the budget um and we have not spent anything against that particular resolution. So I do do want to point that out but you
know we did we did a resolution for 85k that's that's where this number came from >> and that specified the group >> yes um >> so we >> township planning services it >> so we'd have to cut that here if we want to look at other some other firms to do
>> um no but I don't know if you >> I I wouldn't it says planner it doesn't say her name it doesn't say the firm for her >> the resolution was resolution was for her >> and if we hire ire somebody to do the master plan. That's a separate line item. >> That'll be more money.
>> It Yeah, it could be, but I don't think that this firm is the right firm to do it for the rest of >> Correct me if I'm wrong. We take this money out >> and we hire another plan, then we have to get a majority vote to put this money back into the budget again. >> No, four say,
>> right? Super majority. >> Four votes. >> So, but where are is is there a recommendation to remove it? Because I haven't heard one. Yeah, >> we're discussing this right now. >> So, I I don't know. Let me put this out there. I don't know if it's prudent for the township to be redoing their code
and the master plan at the same time considering they're all we're also doing the affordable housing plan. That's three major things that the township is doing. So, maybe we do >> the revision starting January 2027. I'm just going there. And then we do the
master plan as a priority along with affordable housing plan. That's my suggestion. >> Councilwoman, are >> are you are you finished, Councilwoman? >> Yes. I So, you're saying you want to do chapter 25 first before the master plan?
I'm >> saying is maybe we do the master plan first. Correct. And we we split it. >> Yes. >> Um but but we don't have an estimate for either one of those two large jobs. So until you get an estimate as to how much
it's going to cost, I'm not going to cut anything. I would council lady. >> Yeah. So um to to that conversation, I'm going to I'm going to be very direct. We've been waiting downtown to get some
ordinances >> and uh the firm has started working on a few things. So to I don't know what direction you all want to the director wants to go in or however we're going to manage this, but those items have to get
done and they can't wait any longer. We have code enforcement issues. We we have a mess on Main Street and it has to get it has to get resolved and a lot of that is and not just there just all over town too. It >> I don't think the town's a mess. I'll disagree.
>> Well, I I'll disagree. >> Main Street. There's lots of issues on Main Street that we're dealing with and we need to get some >> some ordinances changed. Not to anyone's fault, but the the legislation has to be updated. >> So, I'm sorry. I I has to get done.
>> So, that's number one. Number two is don't we have to put it out for bid? >> Yeah, we would. Yes, we would. >> Has so to name planners or whatever else we're going to do, >> we have to put things out to bid. Going back to the line items. Um, we didn't
get to section 30, but that page 30, I know that's yours, but I guess I got my answer where on the economic development coordinator for line 93, there wasn't anything put or charged for no
>> December of 2025, but I guess that's on this page. Uh, 80 that 25,000. Okay. All right. So, I just want to just confirm that because that's what I heard. >> And to your point, Councilman, what you could do is just, and I mean, I hate to
chop everything up, but you could >> say, "Hey, we're going to do 10 to 15 new ordinances that affect," >> and they really can't just affect the downtown. I'm sure you know that. >> No, I know that spot zoning. >> Um, you could deal with the top issues
if you want to. I know like auto body and parking, things like that. You can do some of those ordinances and revise them and that's not going to take >> 10,000 or 20,000. >> Okay? >> Right? So, so you can chop that up and say leave the rest of chapter 25 and
chapter 14 to another time and still do the master plan. There's ways to do it. It's just >> you need you need the money to do it, right? >> It's just how do you >> um Oh, thank you, director. So, and then going back to the
170 paid online 70 for the township planner. So, you're saying we're allocating 85 from this budget and even though it was paid, that's coming from escrow. >> Yeah. It's not it's not paid. It was just encumbered. Um so, we we encumbered
it against the trust. So, >> we have an affordable housing trust, council. That's not escrow. There's a lot of money in there that we pay for out of that fund. not taxpayer dollars if you think about it. That's that's a separate fund. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I'm fine with leaving the 85,000.
Thank you, Council President. >> Councilman Cloliac, did you agree up? >> Just want to throw this out. If we don't have to have a master plan update until 2029. >> Yeah. >> Why are we talking about uh using 2026
to pay for something that's three or four years away? Uh I just I think if you're prioritizing uh uh you would not make that one of the top priorities. You would recognize the 2029 deadline.
>> Well, to your point, you're correct. Except that we are doing an affordable housing plan and most planners or planning firms do them together. That's just a choice of as to whether the council wants to do that. But most townships do master plan affordable
housing together. And it may not be a revisit of the entire plan. It may be just se certain sections just like we're just going to do maybe 10 ordinances for downtown. It may not be an entire revision. >> Yes. Go ahead. If if I could continue with that, what are the efficiencies of
doing the two projects together? If if, as you say, it only tends to affect uh certain elements of the master plan update. >> I'm not sure I understand your question. >> You're s you're you're suggesting what I just said we shouldn't do, and I just
want to make sure I understand. So, you said most planners will do both the master plan update and the affordable housing plan, which by the way, we've already done subject to, of course, probably a lot of amendments uh given
the uh five or six builder remedy lawsuits, but what are the efficiencies of having something that's happening in 2026 uh combined with the master plan? Even though a lot of what the master plan
update would would do would not be related to affordable housing. >> Oh yeah, it would be related to affordable housing. >> Well, I'm not saying it I'm not saying it wouldn't be, but I'm saying a large portion of the master plan would not be subject to the affordable housing element.
>> I I I don't know. Um I think we would really have to have a conversation as to which sections of the master plan that you want done. Maybe it's not a complete revisit and it just deals with affordable housing. There is a portion of the master plan
that has to address the affordable housing. >> Agreed. I understand. >> So maybe you just do that. Maybe that's a quarter of the master plan and we sit down with the person that's doing the affordable housing plan and say, "Hey, we want to just do this portion of the master plan. How much is this going to cost? How much time is this going to
take? How much research do you have to do?" And she'll let us know. >> Yeah. I'd just like to make everybody aware that there are many of us who would like to see a full-time in-house planner in January. So maybe that would be the time for that person to spearhead
the master plan. Maybe if we have to do a few pieces of it to with you know to um complement our affordable housing, but we really are looking at a full-time in-house planner as soon as possible who should really do that and spearhead that effort.
>> That's fine. So I you get no argument from me. Just telling you there's different ways to do it to cut up the the puzzle. There's a different way to cut up the puzzle and piece it together, >> right? I just want us to take a strategic approach and have the right person at the helm.
>> Good luck. I don't Okay. >> Okay. >> Um I have a couple questions. I think one of the the issues that you've raised in the past um is GIS mapping. >> Yes. >> I don't see any money for that. Why
isn't that a that that a priority? That would make your job a lot easier. >> Well, it's it's not really going to make my job that much easier. But what I would always really use that for is really I mean materials it that's that's
really where when I look at a firm I would take the money from there and I don't have an estimate yet because I haven't really taken a deep dive unfortunately into what it's really going to require for the department and really I need to coordinate with engineering with director Zabth so that
we can coordinate together the engineering department planning and co code enforcement and the building department. It should be a cohesive to your point plan GIS for the entire township, not just me doing it. >> Okay. And then the other question I have
for you is that in the the application for for um construction there is a fee for digitizing zoning board of adjustment and planning board applications and it's in here. >> Where is that money?
>> Is that money? Is that the money where we're scanning all the all our documents are going off site now? >> But the the the applicant is paying based on the number of units a certain amount of money and I'd like to know >> is that in a general fund?
>> Oh, that part >> or is that being separated out? >> So, it it is part of the general fund. Um we do not have a dedication by Ryder specifically for digitizing um where that money would be um
restricted specifically for that ta task. Um but we do use a company Fionics to digitize um our records. But I I've read um the ordinance that you're you're you're
referring to and and and yes, we do not segregate that money into a separate trust. It just is part of current fund revenues. >> Okay. So, is there a way that going forward? >> Um is is the digitizing going on? Is every application digitized now?
every application. >> Oh, the newer ones aren't offsite, but I forgot how much how how many boxes we they came. It might have been 20 or 30 old file cabinets, you know, the big ones that have like the font. We sent
all of that off site and and it has been a tremendous help because now we do not have to go in the dust, go underneath things when they're Oprah requests. By the way, we got 600. We we already had more Oprah requests this year than we had total last year.
Do you know the research we have to do for an Oprah request? If somebody says from 1960, we have to go. It's it's terrible. Open a drawer. Dust. All of that stuff is offsite now. The current applications are not because they have not come back yet. We sent a lot off site. >> Okay. >> But is it digitized and is it
accessible? >> So, so >> yeah. Yeah. It's they have >> all of these every application is now online and digitized. No, not not not all the new ones. >> Okay. So, that's because the the applicant is paying for this and it's a
fair amount of money and it's it's not actually going towards what it's supposed to be going towards. So, I'd like to to understand where that money I mean, you've told me the money is going into the general fund. Is there some way moving forward that we can segregate
that money and help offset our costs for digitizing because it's not we're not up to date. So I don't believe that we could do a dedication by rider specifically for digitizing. Um it's not on the state's
approved dedication by rider listing. We would have to make application to them. um they probably would say that there's nothing in the state code that segregates revenue for this specific purpose. Um so I don't I don't think
that's going to be possible. Um we probably should just end up changing the title of the ordinance to just it's just the fee for the application. >> Okay. But this reference to digitize this
>> this is misleading. So, so just so you know, councilwoman, that entire sheet is being revised. I actually have a meeting with Mark on um Friday regarding some of those fees. So, >> okay. Done. >> Anyone else?
>> No. >> Are we are we still looking at the the department? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I I'd just like to ask you about line item 130, >> computer maintenance. >> Yes.
>> Well, I'm going to buy computers. I don't want those maintenance. >> Not enough. >> Yeah. That's enough for not even fun. >> Maybe one person may have to ch That's what we do. I'm going to need some laptops for for
the are from the 90s now. Wait, sorry. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> I was on that. >> I just want to ask about apparatus drafting. Um, there haven't been any expenses in that category. Is that a correct category name?
>> Not. >> So, what nothing is being spent in that category for years? >> Um, can we eliminate that that category? Why don't you put that to the computers? >> Computer. >> Yeah. >> And get rid of that.
>> Same maintenance. >> Okay. So, so then can we >> can we move that 600 over to computer and have it just called computer? >> Yes. >> Get rid of any of these
>> and get rid of the apparatus drafting just to clean it up. Councilwoman, can I can I jump in? I'm done. Okay, go ahead. >> So, just to that point and for the director and all the directors that are in the room, I mean, do you need more
for you said computer? So, so how many do you need? Like, do you have enough money even with 1,600? >> Um, I bought one last year. The ones that I I was planning on buying really cheap laptops to take home because they,
like I said, they're terrible. We have >> because again we go back to I know we this has been a long tedious process but we're getting we're a lot further than we were last year with because we're trying to get to zero true zerobased budget and that's what that's what we're
reaching and that's what we're trying you know that that's our ultimate goal >> for the housing I have 1050 and under planning develop I have a thousand. So that I think is >> all right. So you're okay then if we make that 1,600 that's enough. That's
what I was saying. Okay. >> Thank you, Council President. >> Okay. Anything else? Any >> So, make a mo. >> We need a motion. Okay. >> So, the motion Well, did Councilwoman, did you make the motion, >> Rick? Well, no. I I still I still am not clear on what that we've only spent
16,000 and and this this line item is asking for 85. >> Okay. So, we're not we're not there yet. The motion I like to make is can we make a motion to delete line 110 >> and put the money in computer increase line 130 to600
>> and I'll second that. >> You got >> okay >> again to council Williams point you got to go by >> you got reverse order because we need four votes to put it back in. So it's better to just to move it as opposed to taking it out and reputting it in. It's
just if >> we just allow it to be cleaned and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, Mr. >> Oh, Council President, I'm sorry. I was going to address the 16,000 as being the affordable h those are affordable housing expenses.
>> Yeah. >> Uh, Councilwoman. >> Okay. So, so that >> we need to clean it up. Why not even be in here? >> Okay. >> So, we have the full 85,314. >> Okay. >> Unexpended. to me that that is a very large sum for that has not been spent to
date. >> Right. It it thousand that's encumbered for the planning and none of that has actually been spent. >> Right. So, and we're talking we're almost we're almost at the halfway point. What we need is an amendment possibly to the master plan for the
affordable housing. Not a whole new master plan. We need to have some work possibly on chapter 25. Um, I would like to reduce this budget. >> Councilwoman Castelino had the floor. >> Yeah, I'm sorry I interrupted. >> Just make a motion for a recommendation.
You wanted You're jumping all over the place. One sec. >> We got to straighten out one line item at Councilwoman Williams point earlier this evening. We got to not bouncing around or we're never going to get this budget done.
>> Okay. So, we're going to move line item one >> 10. 10 into 130 and just call it uh yes computer >> second. >> All right. Hold on. >> 130. >> Okay.
>> Um Okay. >> Should I Can I just Oh, you have a motion on. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Kroviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. This way the clerk could get her recordkeeping straight. >> Right. Thank you. >> And and we can move forward with other recommendations. >> Did you have something else >> before council president but the director did
>> before we reduce the 85,000? I I really need to have a conversation with high school. I don't know what the new number could be. I we have not presented anything to them and you guys already did a resolution for 85. So can't reduce it yet >> until I I might have to come back on that one. >> You have to get some pricing.
Yeah, I'm not comfortable with that. >> I have to ask them. >> But did you make a motion to reduce it? >> No. >> Um, >> not yet. >> No, I haven't. But I I am unfortable with having this planner do all of that work.
>> Okay. So, >> that's that's your opinion. >> Is there a motion? Uh, so I would like to make a motion to reduce this to um I'd like to to reduce it by $40,000.
>> What? >> Nothing has been spent in this category. >> It's been encumbered. >> I understand what encumbered isn't spent. Nothing. >> You might not have built us yet. >> She has not done anything. There's no what she's done. Okay. So, let let's have a motion. >> Let's just reflect that vote.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's just vote. I I'll second it. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman, how much did you want to reduce it by? >> 40 by 40. >> 40,000 >> to $40,000. So that >> 40,000, >> right? So that's 55,000.
It currently is at 85 and would like to leave 40,000 in and if if there is more that is needed, come back and ask us. >> Well, that's >> But don't have to change the resolution you >> No, because the resolution it has a not to exceed. It's not a contract. >> It's not a contract. It's a resolution.
>> It's a resolution to allow her to work and it's a not to exceed >> purchasing >> and that was based on not having not having been approved by the council. >> Okay. Councilman Kakoviac. >> Okay. Let me just see if I understand this correctly. We have been desperate
for a planner who would do something for the town's planning needs, the substantial the township's substantial planning needs for years. And all they've basically been doing for years is to assist the planning board and the zoning board with their
their hearings and their applications. So we hire this person. We all vote to hire the higher grl firm, not just Ms. Grul.
And yet we're now in May and we have not given them any work to do for this $85,000. Do I understand that correctly? >> Yes. >> Or or what what's the status now? Because I thought I was so excited to get hire in here because they're one of
the leading firms in the in the state and there's all kinds of problems we not problems challenges that we have that I thought they could do whatever we needed them to do. So, >> they have been working. >> They have been working. Okay. Yeah, she
>> Okay, that's my thought. >> Things with them. >> And downtown is one of the exciting things that I was hoping they could help us with. So, >> so, Councilman, we've only we've only expended funds on their affordable housing litigation support and their work on on on the plan. They have not
build us anything for planning services >> to date. As yet? >> As of today. Yes. They have not build us anything. and and I I'm sorry you don't council. I just want to get to your conversation. >> I yield. I yield because I really want to find out what's going on the board.
>> If you go back and look at when we just >> passed the resolution wasn't too long ago because because it was delayed or tabled or I don't know. It's like the B, you know, roll out. >> It was voted no. It was voted no. >> Yeah. So, so it they were just finally
Yeah. We had to reintroduce it. So, they haven't been sitting there for a while. if you recall, they couldn't work and that we had a we had to tell 80 Main Street that we didn't have a planner to to work with them for that project that we all committed to to moving forward.
So again, she she and then the once we got uh the resolutions passed, our I'm sure attorney will weigh in, but not you particularly, Mr. Morero is probably going to not be pleased with this conversation because he's been manipulating all of her time to, you
know, get the affordable housing. So, there is planning work to be done which I'm sure will eat up the 85 and again this is this stop. So, I'm I'm not supportive of this. >> Okay. Do we have a motion and a second? Are we done with discussion?
>> I don't know. >> Are we done with discussion, Councilman Kobia? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Again, I just want to clarify. We've given we've given them $85,000. >> We haven't given them any money yet. >> We've not The council has approved a contract with them not to exceed
$85,000. >> Right. >> Okay. Again, does everybody understand? I'm just trying to find out what they've been doing, how much they've been spending because we're being asked to cut their their uh allocation by more than half. So I just want to find out if
I could how much they've been paid so far and what work are they doing for that figure out. >> They have to be given more direction. Right now they're only working on affordable housing. It is only May 5th. I I don't know if you guys realize
that's why we need to de the deputy director. I can only do so much in an 25 hour day. So part of that will be like I have June 1, talk to them about this. June 2nd is I it can't be done overnight. So they have to be given
direction. Right now they're working on affordable housing downtown. Then we're going to tell them okay do the master plan. Then we're going to tell them maybe we need some ordinances. But it is a process and we should not be cutting the 85,000. I don't know what they're going to spend yet.
>> I don't. >> I'm done. >> I don't I don't know what they're going to spend. >> Mr. Dennia, you want to tell us what they've spent to date? >> Yes. >> Any of those? >> Yeah. So, we've paid $16,215 for affordable housing litigation
support services. That's it. We have not paid anything against the $85,000 resolution number 69-26 for planning services, >> which was on late. >> I like two meetings ago. Two meetings
ago. Two meetings ago, that resolution came back before us. Thank you. Two meetings ago, and I don't I I again, can we just vote on whether or not we're going to adopt this or reduce the budget by the recommendation?
>> We can. And we've I think we've exhausted this and we've u Councilman Ruden has indicated that maybe perhaps they're not the right people to be doing the master plan and not at this time. And I kind of agree with her. So, let's we could just take the vote. Okay. So, the most
>> I I don't think we should be talking about our vendors in that this capacity. >> Let's just take the vote. >> All right. So, the motion was to reduce the line item to $40,000. So, we would
be taking away $45,000. Uh, Councilwoman Castelino, >> no. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> no. Not at this time. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. The motion is defeated.
>> I I would just council president go ahead. >> Um respectfully colleagues, >> can we refrain from our personal feelings about any vendor that is doing business currently with our township? I
think that is just disrespectful. we have already authorized for them to do the work that they are scheduled to do. And if you're not happy with them, let that be reflected in your vote when it comes back before the floor. I I just I
that is it is so hurtful for them to come back and hear this type of rhetoric when they're working for our town. This is unacceptable. >> Yeah. I would also like to add we we had a contractor not to this is the director
now we're micromanaging from the day what she can and cannot do I mean that's that's inappropriate that's a function of her job and if she feels that that vendor is not doing a proper job she doesn't have given the work >> right I wouldn't pay the bill so I mean you know you're not micromanaging our
departments here you're >> yes >> this is not this is not micromanaging we Excuse me, but when I have you don't interrupt. >> My apologies. >> What what we are doing is we are asked to authorize the money for this
position. We did not do that until this date because the budget was presented to us so late. Had we gotten the budget earlier, we would have authorized this amount of money. So now is our only opportunity other than the resolution that we passed to deal with the exact
amount of money that this vendor is being authorized. >> I I don't I think we should move on. >> Move on. >> Okay. So are we finished now with plan? We're finished with planning, right? >> Well, can we approve that page? >> We approve that page. Yeah.
>> Consent on that. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Okay. I don't know. >> Um, do you want to take five? >> No. Can we finish? Let's finish. Let's finish.
>> Yeah, let's finish this. >> I'm looking at the question. I don't really have anything else. >> I think we should finish this. >> I have probably small anybody. I >> want to go to the next page. Is 82. >> Say 8. Uh, council president, if I could um just direct everyone to the housing
code salary worksheet um page 82. Uh, so we have three employees listed, >> two code enforcement and one senior field rep. Uh, the the budget year-over-year is down $49,000.
And uh, you know, I invite any questions, but uh, pretty self-explanatory. All of our positions are at their max step. Um, in 2026, I think we had one individual receive a uh
a step increase that went brought them to max and everyone received a cola increase of 3% uh for being part of the ASME union >> and this is where the position was taken out, >> right? This is where the trainee position was taken out of also,
>> right? I think this is pretty self-explanatory. I don't have any Do any of my colleagues have any questions or comments? I think we're ready to move this. >> Yes. I'd like to address the overtime. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Okay. So
the overtime that has been that has been given um that has been used already has been for to my understanding only for one hour in January and three people were called in in January and that
incurred a slight overtime fee. Is there some way that we can eliminate the overtime in this department for code enforcement? of all departments. You're not going to delete the overtime for the people that got called on Easter Sunday.
No, >> I don't mean any disrespect, Councilwoman, but >> I don't know what's going to happen on a Saturday or a Sunday. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know when I'm going to get a phone call. We have court cases. I have one of these guys. He
comes in at 8. He doesn't even charge me for overtime. He doesn't even put in the overtime. >> So why was that? >> So I am not going to cut the overtime for code enforcement. Not $1. It doesn't
make sense to me. >> Caselina. >> Yeah. So being the only I guess person on the day is here that actually lives in the downtown area, I mean I I call the the the uh director
constantly. Um it's needed. I I mean you can't do without overtime. You need phone code enforcement especially that have to send people out on the weekends. We had the fire pits uh to mainly to enforce our ordinances that we keep
tweaking and changing. So >> again, >> and and we we have this popup party thing. I think you've heard us. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We we haven't gotten to that season yet. >> Yeah. We're not even there yet. >> I I don't know when I'm going to have to call. >> These are the people that go out. >> We're lucky enough to have two
inspectors that live in town that are willing to take my phone call on a weekend to do whatever is needed. So, I I just don't think that's prudent. I'll be I'll be honest with you. >> Can Can we move on? What is everybody else's overtime budget, >> right? Hundreds of thousands of dollars, right?
>> $200. >> Councilwoman Ruden, do you have anything else? >> No, I I just wanted Okay, wait. >> I think Direct Director, I am I am just asking questions, okay? Because I see what what has been spent and and for
what. So, I'm just asking you a question. I didn't make a motion. I I understand but if you did this job just one day you would understand my frustration >> and we have this frustration to that >> we do understand so let's can we just approve this thing
>> yeah I I Yep. Let's approve this page make motion to approve this page >> as that I'll make motions to approve pages yet. >> Yeah. >> Are we doing Yeah. We're consenting. We're consenting. Yeah. >> So there's a consent on page 82.
>> Yes. Yes. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Our next page is housing code enforcement. The operating budget. Um the ask is slightly less than 2025. Um
we're requesting $2,000 even. What was spent last year was $1,839. We budgeted $2,046. Um we have not spent anything to date. Um but I think we discussed that the
line 130 is going to be used to purchase laptops uh along with the planning uh >> uh planning and development uh line computer maintenance which we're calling computer purchase now >> right and and they all need new cameras. I don't know if you know how much
digital cameras cost. They're not um cheap. We're going to need probably three new cameras. They haven't had them in years. And I noticed I don't have anything for training. They're all fire code inspectors and they're going to need to take reertification classes. There's not one dollar in here to for their CEUs,
which is a requirement. You know, I have to go every five years. I I go to classes constantly. They have to do it every two years. So, >> what is the amount for the training budget that you need? >> Um, what do we request? Last year that was 2,000. I didn't use because I got the free classes. I would say at a
minimum 2,000. We have we have three inspectors. So then I make a recommendation. I move to put in $2,000 for training. >> Second. >> Yes. Council member Kobiac. >> Could I just understand the budget
process here because this is not the first time it's come up tonight. We have a budget that we just got, you know, a couple of weeks ago and we're being told that there's stuff that should have been in here that that isn't in here. And I'm just trying to understand how that can be. Does Can anybody explain please? Is
there busy market? >> So, as I understand it, training has come out of the administrator's education budget. We sort of treat it as like a centralized education budget. So, I I think in the past that's where we've we've charged training. That's why
there's no training in here this year. >> Budget now? >> No. Um, Mr. Smallo, when are we doing the administrator's budget? At a later meeting, we have alignment specifically for education for um all
departments with the exception of police and fire. They have their own dedicated training budgets. >> So then we don't need to um >> No. >> Okay. So then I'll resend my motion. >> Okay. >> So will that include um >> just so you're aware and you know culturally I want to let you know what's
going on in town. One of the things that that's coming up a lot with code enforcement is hoarding. >> Yeah, >> we have a >> fires. >> I don't want to say terrible problem, but we're having some issues and and and the code enforcement people need to be
trained. We are able to help some of the individuals um with the help of Laura >> Adult Protective Services. We have been in quite a few homes. Yeah, >> you're talking about senior living that
that's something a task they really should start taking up because we're we're having a terrible problem. We have individuals who are living by their themselves >> in beautiful homes. >> No relatives, >> right? >> They can't cut the grass. >> They can't remove their snow.
>> Yeah. >> They have items in their homes. They get sick. We have We have two now that I can think of >> and and their houses are full of items. >> Are there grants for them? And everybody calls us. Everybody calls us. >> Yeah. >> Mental health association does have some
resources, support resources that we can utilize. The mental health association. >> Yeah, we we utilize them. But when it comes to enforcement to assist because it is a mental health hoarding is a mental health issue. It is
a concern and a diagnosis. >> We have about 12 cases right now. I believe it >> of of individuals where the fire department goes in on a Saturday, right? And they go, "Janice, you got to come to >> and and we go." >> Yes. >> Um and it's become very challenging.
It's very difficult. I see. >> So, so I just wanted to follow up also. So, thanks for that answer. But now we're being told that they we need to purchase digital cameras and and laptop computers, which is totally uh understandable. But what's not
understandable to me is why they're not already contained in uh in the budget and that there's been some effort to ascertain what the cost of and what the need is. >> I have I have $950 there. I have $950
under um 11. >> Yeah, I have it there. >> Computers and printer supplies. >> So computer and printer supplies, you've got >> office field equipment, film. These are from the other laptops you from the other department. >> Yeah, I'm I'm talking about housing code
enforcement. >> So, so we So, we gave you the 1600 on the other >> the other one was >> for other planning. Yeah, I know. So, this is different, >> right? This is the inspectors, >> right? >> Inspect. >> Oh, I got it. He >> and director. So, this will cover what
you need. This this has been put in here because you've looked at it and said, "This is what I need." >> Yes. >> Okay. Yes. >> Thank you. >> No problem. Okay, >> that's all council. >> No change. Consent. >> Change. Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> 85. >> Yeah. >> 85. >> Consent.
>> Yeah, we can consent. 85. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Yeah, you're good. Okay, that's it. >> Okay. Uh, page 30 was her directions. >> Thank you, director. Appreciate you. >> Thank you, council.
>> No, don't you have to do page 30? the planning board that you referred to. >> I think we're going to do those when we do the support for boards and commissions and we're going to lump all that in. >> But does she have to come back? >> No. >> Okay.
>> Wow. You're here early in front of us tonight for you >> President used to seeing you to the start. Council President, did you want to take the five minute break? >> Does everyone need a break? >> I don't, but it Okay, we'll take five minutes.
>> We'll pick this time. Jice is done. And we're not doing it. >> Nobody knows. >> How do you guys not know? >> Nobody's looking at the screen. We said different. So, we're going to look at
>> No, I all of a sudden I Everybody's not >> building. >> I could use a cup of coffee. >> I'll take that. As you know, Joe coffee back there,
you have any coffee back there? Just a little milk, no sugar. >> Oh, thank you. Did you bake? >> No, but whole foods for me. >> I have enough. They're so good. Michelle's >> Oh, no. >> Don't get me started on
>> You know which ones I like? The pistachio like it's gone out of pistachio. >> Yes, >> they are good. I like those for breakfast. I couldn't >> I need to bring like a thing.
>> There's no chair for you. >> Yeah, >> there's no public comment. >> No. >> Just in the beginning. >> Go. >> You could you could comment on the before the after when it's your turn as much as you like.
>> Knock yourself out. Sorry that we should have It's like pull me out of here. >> See you tomorrow. coffee. >> I know. >> Bring my own. >> We're gonna move it.
>> You ready? out of jail. >> I can have you arrested. >> So, I don't think I got so nervous when I saw you going to dinner at 4:30 bringing in this sandwich. I thought
maybe >> just texted me. Thank you, West Orange, for your patience. We were on break. I just want to make one quick announcement. At the top of uh today's budget hearing, I mentioned that the next budget hearing is on May 12th. That was incorrect. I
misspoke. The next budget hearing is scheduled for Monday, May 11th, not the 12th, 2026 at 4 pm. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to Council President. >> Okay. Welcome back everyone. We have Miss Carbalo here. Um, Mr. Din, you want
to >> Thank you, Council President. So, this is the Department of Engineering, the second department that we're going to be speaking with tonight. We're going to start with the salary and wages for 2026. Um, so the increase from 2020 uh 2025 to 2026 is $132,643.
Uh, it's a $164,000 in the base salary increase. There's a decrease in hourly pay by $39,450 and an increase year-over-year in the overtime ask um for the budget. Uh all of the positions are filled and if there
are any questions regarding um any of these positions we can answer them for you. >> Okay. Do any of my council colleagues have any questions? >> Yes. >> Council Ruden. >> Okay. So, um, for the engineer aid,
there are two of them, but for the first one, um, I know that you transitioned him from a part-time employee to a full-time employee. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, the amount that was allocated for him was based on a full-time
employment for the for the entire year, but part of the year, I believe, he was working. Am I correct? That she was working. Yeah, hourly. So now that's been transitioned. >> So the effective date of the hire is when?
>> Uh he gonna start full-time on May 18. >> Okay. So it seems like there this this employee made 41,000 last year. Um they've made um 15,000 to date and this salary is for
an entire year. So can we prorrate that? >> Yes. And if we if we prorrate that, then that would bring us down five $5,949 and prorate that to 50,000. >> Correct. That proration is accurate.
>> Okay. So then that's that's that's all I wanted to say. >> Do you want to make the motion? Well, I I don't want to make we are I am understanding from council not make a motion until till we finish discussion
but sorry that seems clear that that can be that can be reduced without harming the budget >> or the person. >> So is there any other discussion on this page? If not you can make the motion. >> Okay Cali, >> what about Too bad?
>> Yeah, if they have any >> Oh, I'm sorry. We're on page 121. I I apologize. I didn't call the page out. >> Does CBA have any questions? >> Do you have anything on page 121? I know. I'm going to let you go first. >> Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. You're the only
one. >> I'm here. Sorry. >> That was my other recommendation that she understood. >> Okay. Thank you. And I I do want to make a motion, but I also kind of want to make a point >> and this is not about you or about the
department. It's just about why we are in such trouble in West Orange is because we have this salary ordinance which allows for huge huge jumps in pay between the steps and plus we have cola.
So for one employee here I'm looking at there is a 12% increase. That's a lot of of increase um for so I'm just going to end it end it with that. But this is in every single department. I've seen increases
that are just unconscionable when this budget is is you know when when the taxpayers are paying so much. Um and just a point that our we as council people really need to put in a
freeze in terms of salaries and we also need to as council councilman Koviaak has been urging for months. We need to get a salary ordinance to us so this stops. as Councilman Kobe. >> Uh just to follow up on on Councilwoman
Ruden, we have finally started the process and it uh we had our first meeting last week. It was a purely preliminary meeting uh to get the process started to to review uh the salary ordinance.
>> Uh both Thank you. both the uh both the COLA increases and uh the steps process. So, the council should be getting uh something to gnaw on uh very soon within a few weeks. >> Thank you for all your work on that.
>> Okay. Um Okay. >> You have to do the motion to >> Okay. So, I I make a I make a motion to reduce the um the engineering with aid. Oh. Uh the engineering aid with with college
credits. the first one from 55949 to 50,000. >> Okay, I'll second. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> I second it.
>> Oh, sorry. Councilwoman I'm sorry. >> Councilwoman Castelina. Yes. Councilman Crobia. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council Presidents. Yes. All right. The motion carries.
Okay. Go to the next page. >> On this page now. Yes. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Thank you. >> Can we just go back? I have a question. Did we just um
>> make the change to the $50,000 salary for the person who's at step four or the person who's at step one? >> Step one. >> Step. Step one. Okay. We probably >> we're on 12th. >> Um so we're going to move to page 123. This is Division of Engineering's operating budget.
Um >> question. >> Go ahead. I'll I'll let the director answer your your budget questions. >> Yeah. One I just curious line 70. Um, last year you only spent 13 and already
you asked for 18. Um, you're already up to 17490. Are you going to have >> you know what is exactly does that line item? >> Sure. >> So if and are you going to have enough to finish the year? So, if you recall from last year, um I did request the
$18,000 because the vendor has always basically been charging 175 and a portion of that um 17,000 and change was being charged to capital for some reason, which in reality should have always been operating. So, this
year we paid the 17,490 for the um sewer system operator. There's a quotedly charge for our our licensed system operator um uh to is filing forms. What is it? The
>> actually what he does he does the reporting from NJP every municipality is basically required to have a license collection system operator and actually there are different levels and he's got the you know municipalities population. >> So it is required it has to be done
monthly. uh he writes the reports, he actually sends them to my office and the same are filed to NJD. Are you going to have enough for the end of the year? >> I believe quarterly. So >> tells us 4,372.
It works out to be 17,490. So we encumbered the full year. >> Oh, you coverumbered it. Okay. You didn't Okay. Spend it already. So you're good. >> We we encumbered the full year. >> Okay. >> Okay. Counciloman Ruben. So um that service which is licensed collection
systems operator that is for uh Maruchi >> Tony Maruchi. >> Yeah. Maruchi engineering >> and we've just you were just told us that that is for 17,490 and that's that's the exact price that we pay. >> Yes sir. >> We have a remaining amount of 510 in the
budget. Yes. >> That I recommend I not making a motion right now. I'm going to recommend that that be removed since that's not part of that line item. >> Okay. >> And what about I'm sorry, Councilwoman.
Line 131. Are you good there with those? >> So, um, >> you have to buy something else. >> I just want to explain um 131 very quickly and the director can add some. We have two uh major items in that line
item and um I know it references CAD that is one part of it. It's that's 11,699 something like that and then uh or 659 and then there is going to be a a joint
purchase of um a traffic software system speed and volume where engineering is purchasing 50% of it and police are purchasing 50% and what was the cost of that? >> The cost of that I believe it was $22,000 in change. So we're going to be
sharing the cost. So >> yeah. So I I think just for the public sake, it probably warrants maybe a separate line for that traffic software. >> Um because we don't want it to make it seem like it's just the CAD has gone way
up. Um so >> I think tomorrow I will adjust and repost this >> this line. >> Fun playing with that. >> Councilman Koviaak. Uh just to perhaps clarify a little bit more, the traffic software that you're planning to share
the purchase with, is that related to the effort that we've had to try to rationalize a lot of the parking in the difficult situations in town or is this something totally different? So for example, every time that I have to do a grant application with the state or do I have to do a
study or a survey for the installation of the speed tables or if we want to find out whether or not there's a lot of speeding on that roadway, we have to get the uh police department to install the stat trackers. There's approximately
three stat trackers that they have. Sometimes one of them has to go out of commission and then we're only down to two and it takes time because they have to be put up for approximately a twoe period. So when I have a lot of things going on and they also have their own
their own data that they need to collect um it's very difficult and there's a lot of timing and waiting and this and that. So, um, we decided to go with a vendor and get a proposal and they gave us a presentation and I think it's great. It
provides what we need in real time. >> So, we're able to get the speed, the volume of the roadway, and we're able to use that information and that data to do our calculations for the number of vehicles on road. It will definitely
save time for both departments and that's why we're chairing the cost. >> Great. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Yes, counciloman. >> So, just just to summarize that, we're going to we're going to rename 131 AutoCAD
and and then possibly instead of 132 which is duplicate maybe maybe name that that's called speed data, right? >> You can call it a speed volume software. Okay. If we could call that. So, because
this I just want to ask you this $11,000 is this a yearly >> cost for us? >> Yes. Okay. >> So, just like with AutoCAD that we have to do annually, we have to renew it. We have to do the same thing with this vendor. Once we buy it a year from now,
then we're going to have to renew it again to be able to use the services. So, council president, for that reason, because we want to clean up the lines, I think that we should have one called AutoCAD and one called whatever you speed data or so that we understand that that's going to be a yearly >> an annual expense.
>> An annual expense. >> Yeah. >> Um, I also wanted to ask about line 110, office and field supplies. >> You've requested 5,500. you've spent um $771
thus far. Can you tell us what you anticipate this the rest being spent on because last year you spent under 3,000? >> So this year we are actually for the first time the department of engineering will be um putting out to bid a project
that is going to have my name on it. So we're going to have to do probably 12 sets of 17 24 by 36 pages. We're also going to have to do the specification. So, that's going to be a lot of printing >> and a lot of paper and a lot of ink. So,
we'll see how much we spend. It's the first time that we're doing it. Typically, it's done by a vendor and this time we decided to do we're able to do the design inhouse since I got a little more staff. >> Okay. So, should that not be in the
printing department to move that into printing? So we we know what the use is. >> Not really because it's still part of the office and field supplies like meaning office because we need the uh I don't see the the word film to really be
used. Maybe we could use I don't know ink office and field supplies. I mean >> Okay. And and do you anticipate needing more than $4,000 for a unit? >> I'm hoping not. Um but you know it all depends too. Sometimes from there for
fuel supplies I will use it. Let's say if I need a level uh a level rod, it's basically a large ruler for, you know, somebody to be able to measure the depth of a manhole. Um and they're not cheap.
Um I might also need it for tape. Um, and also maybe one of those um, pavement measurement devices to measure the um, we call it a gun, but you know, it's basically a temp thermometer to measure them the temperature of the
pavement when it's being put down when we're doing inspections. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. >> And thank you for the speed cameras that you just mentioned before that that track track the speed of the cars.
Okay. Can we >> for the line items that are blank? Why are we keeping them in the budget? >> I I kept them simply because I didn't want to omit anything. If if you wanted to put money
into copier rental and supplies, you'd have that option. So, um, you know, I I kept any open line items that we have within the the range and I did that for all of the departments. >> So, just to add to what John had just
said, um, our copy machine is always breaking. >> Okay. >> It's basically needs to get fixed every two weeks and sometimes more than that. We were out actually uh last year without it for like over two months on and off. So leaving the item there, I
don't think it hurts. >> We're getting pricing on cop replacing copers and we have a centralized uh copier um service line item and we've been trying to keep them running. Some of them they're so old that they don't
make the parts anymore, >> but uh >> we don't want to take that out. We could need it down the road. See >> that that's a bigger capital project replacing copers some point. >> Okay. Anything on 123? Anything on this?
>> Wait, >> nothing earth shattering here. I just uh I agree with uh the recommendation to remove 510 from line item 070. Um, I had made notes on line 110, but you've
got a project that's going to, um, I mean, I I guess the only question is similar to what Councilwoman Ruden said was, could you do it for 4,000? Um, you know, leave that to you guys. And and, uh, my the same thing for 131. Um,
the money spoken for, so leave it as my thinking. I mean, we could try for$4,000 and see how it goes. And if I need more money, I guess. >> We don't want to cut you short for $1,000. I mean, if you if you think you
might need it, I I think that's just I think we're talking about you're buying the lot large format printer paper, which we we do not buy in our central printing budgets. So, engineering's supplies are always specialized, right? um
>> sounded like it could could be a reality that she would >> Yes. >> just one this is very small but it's just a cleanup. Um you initially had asked for 23,000 in in um the line item
for auto what what we now are going to refer to AutoCAD. We're moving 11,000 into speed data. We have a little bit of extra which is $340. Can we can we remove that?
>> Um no because um also the line item that says 131 which was labeled computer software CAD that align items also being used to pay our yearly annual fee for the GIS software that we're utilizing.
>> How much does that cost? >> Last year if I'm not mistaken was like $690. And right now I am looking to see with GIS to see if we could get an additional component to it. So in that way like it helps with the MS4. Got it.
>> Actually I had our consultant asked us to find out like what is exactly is in it before we renew it. So that way we could add that component to the uh license. >> So you need that money for GIS. Can we create another category for GIS? This is going to be something that the council
will be looking at for years and years. So, can we just move shift that 340 into into GIS? Um, and possibly that little amount of money that we were just talking about from you said the GIS is going to be
six. >> It was 690 last year. I'm not sure what it's going to be now. We're adding if we do need to add this component to it, I'm sure it's going to cost us a little more. >> Right. So, that that's going to end up coming out of office and field supplies. Yes. >> So, can we just shift that and fund this
for for $700 and then and then we're >> council are you talking I'm sorry the the 131 line you're taking >> the AutoCAD line had 23,000. We've now we've now um been told that it's
actually for a AutoCAD which is 11 uh 1169 >> 116659.992 and and speed data which is 11K which we're sharing police department >> 600 there's a leftover amount of 340
which she wanted to hold on to to use for GIS. So, I'm saying because GIS is something that we are going to be looking at every single year, we should have it as an item and add a little bit of money into >> add a little bit of money from the office and field supplies because that's
probably where she's going to pull it from. >> Yeah, I think to the extent we can get things itemized would be great. >> Take out the 340.08, put it into a new line and then take out the difference. Um,
>> let's just be clear though. We take out Bless you. >> Bless you. We can't take out. We're just moving. >> Moving. >> We're moving. We're not taking it out. >> Okay. >> Takes more time to do this. >> Okay. >> I understand what you mean.
>> Do you want to explain that because I'm going to sneeze and get >> All right. So, so the GIS line then it will be the $340, right? Plus, let's say we're going to reduce the office and fuel supplies
from 468385 to just 4,000. Correct. And then move the 68385 to the GIS item. Is that what you were looking for? I didn't think that you needed that much in the GIS cuz you said 600, but like move move um 400 out of
the four move 400 out of that into the GIS category because you don't know >> if it last year was 690, right? So if it's going to be more this year, you're going I'm going to need more than $700. >> Yeah. Yeah. Don't make yourself
then add add 500 into it or or if you want to put this 683 into >> what I was saying like I would 340 plus the 683 and that would put me at $1,023.85. >> Perfect. >> Move the 510 that you that you want to take from uh line 70.
>> You're golden. >> Yeah. Don't cut yourself short. >> Don't forget the eight cents, please. I think so. >> Let John make the >> Yeah, John's gonna >> Okay. So, that's over $1,000 in there now.
>> It's It's,23.93. >> Gives me some wiggly. >> Okay. >> Yeah, you're wiggling right there. >> Okay. >> Back into Okay. And again, for any directors watching, this is all about zerobased budgeting. That's all. We're
just asking you to reorganize your line items >> has to be >> before you get here. If not, we're going to do it for you. >> Try to do it before. >> Yes. >> Question. >> Actually, what we're doing, while it is helpful, >> um it's kind of micromanaging the budget
that's been presented to us. Right. We're not really moving We're not really moving money at this point. >> We're just kind of changing line items so that >> we're understanding our expenses. Exactly. Okay. And which this is what we need to do. This is what business does, right? You understand your actual
expenses. >> Well, and just so for council womanification um last year this was a directive from the council council woman. So this way we had asked for this last year. >> So just we may one more one more
question director. Um, on line 200, special services, map and and trained. Is that really the category? You've you've requested 9,000. What What are you actually spending this on? >> I was thinking about spending it on like
some mapping, additional mapping. Last year, I actually got the mapping done for um those streets mapping and we also got our uh paving mapping mapped so that the residents could see in what year their street got mapped within the past
uh 10 years or so. >> Um >> so I was thinking about doing using some of this money for additional mapping for um DPW because they need um you know there's no >> routes
to be navigated. >> I haven't given anything to the vendor yet or anything to the consultant yet because I don't like to be given too much at the at once. I want them to finish one thing first and then like move to the next because then they all over the place and then finish anything on time. Um, and I was also thinking
about utilizing some of that money to send my staff on training uh when the winter months come. Right now is not a good time because you know the summer I got a lot of projects going on. But I definitely think that my staff need some training and I was thinking
about sending them to some of them for the inspection work. Director, have you costed out what the mapping would cost? >> It could cost between I don't know. It all depends. It could cost between $5,000 to, you know, $10,000 depending
on what I asked them to do. How detailed do I want them to get? Um, I could tell you, you know, last year between last year and the beginning of this year when they finalized the map, there was a lot of interaction back and forth and a lot
of markups and, you know, a lot of changes. So, we spended a good chunk of money on that. >> And are you planning on sending your staff to training? >> Yes. >> Okay. And and what will that cost? >> That I don't know yet. I have to I would
like to send them um to OSHA classes for the inspection um at least you know the 10-hour OSHA each of them. Um I also wanted to send them down to Ruckers where they're actually uh providing some training. Obviously some of the training or some of the classes I believe some of
them are at no cost. Some of their other ones are at cost but even from I figured that from that line we could pay them you know the mileage and you know to having to go down there because it's >> it is far from here. >> Okay. Thank you. So I just want to ask if if it would be okay just to rename
that category mapping and training instead of special services. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. Okay. That's fine. You done? >> I'm I'm done. Thank you. Okay, Councilwoman Williams and then Councilman Kov. >> Thank you. Director, you mentioned uh
with the training, I just wanted to inquire, will the training be coming out of the general fund or is this training going to be dedicated and coming from her budget as we did with the U planning division? >> So, we have training training as coming out of again non public safety training
coming out of that business administrator centralized education budget. Um, so I would assume the same would apply uh for the engineer as well. >> So then we don't need to put money in >> for training >> for training. >> Okay. >> If that's the case.
>> Well, but I I you know, if you have a mapping project, I mean, I don't want to >> I definitely have a mapping project, but if the training could definitely come from that general fund, then >> So let's not rename that training category if we're not going to use it for training. Okay. Is my point. All
right. Thank you, >> Councilman Kakovia. >> Thank you. Just very quickly, very quickly. >> Sure. >> I know we've been talking for some time about perhaps moving engineering and some other departments. I don't know where that stands, but just very
quickly, would that be something that would be uh the cost of the move would be incorporated into the individual budgets, individual department budgets, or would that be something a big single project uh on the move? because there's nothing obviously
there's nothing in there yet, but I just >> to any real permanent move, we're probably going to build it into a capital project cuz there would be a buildout of office space somewhere. Um,
so that would be a major capital project, a temporary move. um you know, maybe where we're cramming people into existing offices, you know, we could probably make do which is what with what we budgeted, but if it's a substantial
permanent move, we would have to do a bond ordinance for it. Um >> because it's not in the this year's capital budget. So, >> no. >> Okay. Council, >> thank you.
the fund for the general fund that's I guess going to fall under Mr. Moraldo's budget is are we all these trainings is he going to have enough in that fund so by the time we get to his budget everybody's training is is it
everything's going to be sufficient by the time we get to him because I'm just hearing now I mean was that figure you had it you were trying to take it out of your line item is that dollar amount numerated and given where is it where
>> we should have enough in that in that line item. Um, we have we already have some training and education booked in there, but I think we have >> enough left >> from all the directors going to be in there. So, I >> not everybody does training and not
everybody's training is expensive. Um, you know, sometimes it's just a class or a webinar um that can be $50, $100. So, not everything is going to be like a $1,500 Ruckers class or anything like that. So just >> and some of our training is also going
to be provided by the GIF. So some of it will be either it could be in person could be like exit on a webinar things of that nature. So we try to pinch where we can and if it's something that needs to be done it's a specialized training something with oshor things of that nature then we
then we'll have we'll look to seek to pay it. Yeah. Where we can >> person there and >> yeah where where we can we we get training paid for you know whether it's the GIF or one of the guilds that we belong to like GFOA I'll take whatever
free training and C use I can get. So, >> can we just make sure when we're maintaining those training records that we are by department >> so we can actually account for the cost >> so that we so that we can know what each department and their training needs are
going to be for the following year. >> We're going to consolidate training >> um for all the departments. We just still want to know >> what each department is spending for training. doesn't necessarily have to be broken out in the budget, but on the back end, if we could just keep that
data, that'd be helpful. >> Sure. >> And the one thing just to keep in mind, too, is that um sometimes some of the training, it may be a specialized training that that person completes. So, we may not need that next year, even though we spend it, >> right? It may be a bianual or
>> it may not we'll make sure that we have explained it. So, >> yeah, we're going to we're tracking licenses with our prime point HR software. So any licensed employee like myself, Zabth, you know, we'll we'll make sure
inspectors uh our statuto employees like the clerk, we're going to track the licenses, expiration dates and all that so that you know we can run a report to say, you know, so and so has these licenses, they're up for >> renewal,
>> renewal in this year, right? So that you know that can speak to the narrative of like why are we asking for classes for the clerk or why are we asking for classes for the engineer. >> Right. >> Can we consent to this? >> I say consent.
>> Okay. 124. >> We did we did remove 510, right? 510. >> No, we didn't take out anything. >> We never did. >> Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. So unconsent. No, I did consent and I I don't I'm not No, she wanted to remove 510.
>> I thought you I thought it was going to the other line. >> No, that was >> No, no, that was something different. I >> I'm to take $510 out the engineer's budget. >> It's the exact cost is 174
uh 17,490. That's the exact cost. There's no extra cost there. >> I'm fine with that. It's we're because we're trying to do zero based >> budget. Okay. So then I make a motion. Can we unconsent? >> I'm sorry. >> We can we just consented to this page. I
did not vote. >> You can withdraw the consent. >> I will withdraw the consent. >> Okay. Yes. >> So I make a motion to remove $510 from line item 70. A second. Second. Councilwoman Castleino,
>> yes. >> Councilman Kovia, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> abstain. >> Council President Scorp, >> yes. >> Okay, the motion carries. >> Now we can consent. >> Now you can consent.
>> Consent. All right, we're done. Good night. That's it. Thank you so much. >> That's it. I'm just looking for my ear. >> I know. >> Let's hope this is a new trend for Miss
Carbala. >> Yeah, she can only wish. >> She can only wish. >> Benji Cinco de Mayo. >> Oh, yes. Let's move right along here.
>> Okay. Okay. Construction >> Beyond looks thrilled to be next. >> Looks thrilled. >> Step right up >> and in the hot seat. >> What page are we on? >> So, we've done our property public
housing. We've done building and we've done building construction. We're now going building construction and we're not going to get out of here. >> Yes, figure it out.
Okay, council president. Um, we are going to move to page 183. Uh, for the audience at home, this is the uniform construction code salary worksheet. And the 2026 budget is a reduction from the
prior year of $42,944. If there's any questions for uh the construction code official, myself or Mr. Smaldo, feel free to ask them. >> Okay. Any my colleagues have? >> Yeah. Councilwoman Castalina.
>> Yes. So where's the reduction? What? So the reduction is in full-time base salary. >> So >> building inspector position is vacant. >> No. Well, that's accounted for.
>> The building inspector position is is accounted for. Yes. >> So where'd you take out the 42? >> Uh this is just based on the roster that we have and the vacancy. So >> So we we had 42 more in it last year.
Are we down an inspector or >> are we down a full-time inspector? Yeah, we have the full-time vacancy in there. >> Okay. And >> and this is not accurate because we just had somebody leave the other day. So, we're now advertising for an electrical
sub code official. >> You left on May. >> Bless you. >> Okay. Bless you. So >> we'll be we'll be look we've advertised for electrical inspector and a plumbing inspector. We're looking forward soon.
>> So >> buildings. >> So this isn't reflective of >> So how you handling the electrical inspections now with the person gone? We have a part-timer right now that's in in um
that's that's working part-time uh only so many hours a week and he's he's handling what we can right now. We just had something like I said he just left to go to another agency. The issue we're having with and I don't want to step on Mr. beyond this under here. But
the biggest problem we have with in the construction departments in and around, not just in West Orange, is that we're very limited on licensed inspectors. And inspectors tend to bounce from place to place after so many years because our
town will say, "Okay, we'll do it for $10 an hour." And then the next town over say, "We'll do it for $11 an hour." And then and the other town may say 12. So our guy at 10 says, "Well, I can go to 12." and then they jump and they bounce and these guy not all uh but most
of the um full-timers don't tend to seem to stay very long. It it just seems to be the experience we've had unfortunately and um we're running into a problem maintaining them since I've been involved with these this department we've we've seen um more than 50% of the
of the names changed in the last several years. >> It's a supply and demand issue. >> Yeah. and and and the issue is because of of the limited amount of the other thing is retired as people retire >> we we uh we don't have people who are taking the classes they're not nobody's running to the local county college and
say I want to be a building inspector for the rest of my life it's not happening it's it's usually somebody who's been in the business for a long time whose knees and backs are are starting to fail and they they use their experience >> in in the construction world to become a building inspector or whatever inspector
whatever whatever um discipline they're in. >> So, is the over is the overtime increase? So, is that due to because you have a lot of part- timerrs, they wouldn't receive overtime. They get paid part-time pay. Correct. >> They don't get over time.
>> Yeah. No. So, is that to make up for the building plus of the building inspector? I mean, obviously we're going to ask you to prorrate that inspector, but do we fill it this year or you can't fill it
because you're having issues? >> Right now, building full time, electric full time, and um employment full time. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, I guess right now, yeah, because we were talking about >> Yeah. Obviously, these guys are so hard
to get. I mean, we, you know, >> I just feel like we can't, how do we pick and choose which department? >> We really, yeah, we can't. >> Either we're going to fill them all or we're going to fill none. So, I I just, that's not right. >> Let's just fill what we absolutely need to. I mean, we have to look at our needs. >> I thought, okay, we
>> talked about doing a hiring, >> but if we have a department here that >> we have another department sat before us that doesn't have help or support. >> So, these departments are in the same situation. So, it's not fair for us to feel one position and not do the
likewise. >> And to that point, because I still have the floor, um I I'm going to make a motion that we take out the vacant position. I I won't touch the overtime because
you're going to need it, but I just don't see how we could build that. >> The building inspector That's one of the most important I need I need a full-time building. >> I'm a realtor. I I mean that's one of
the most important >> positions for township. Okay. But you're telling me that you can't hire one right now and and you're only getting them part-time. So that So this is where I'm trying to listen and help, but we're
also trying to cure the budget. So which one is it? Are we >> We're advertising and we're we're looking we're actively seeking this building inspector. So to say to cut it completely, we just had target go in. We just had >> I I know I know
I would I would say to argue on behalf of Mr. Beyond that all right, we don't need the whole 80,000 because somebody isn't here yet. >> Yes. >> But we need a full-time building inspector. We need to get somebody in there. We have two part- timerrs that are seasoned veterans. I'll just say
they're they're terrific, >> but they may not be here forever. We need to, you know, they could they can walk away at any given time because >> they're of of a a point in their life where they distinguished. Yes. >> Leave it at that.
>> And and if we take it out and then then Tom is stuck. Tom is working almost every night now till 8 o'clock because he's he's been jammed up. of all the departments that are stressed. >> Yeah, >> this is one of them. >> I understand that, but what you just said, you're just getting part-time people. So, I'm just
>> We haven't advertised now. We're trying We're receiving applications. We're trying to fill these positions. So, know the one that just got vacated last week. We just started advertising because we need these people. We need people who are licensed to sign. >> Then I'll make then prorrate what you need prorate it and let's call it a day
instead of arguing about it. And I and I I I know you're frustrated and but again, I'm hearing you can't get anybody to keep using part-time people. So, either put in two more part-time positions and call it a day or prorate the full-time position.
>> Yeah. Because you want to be able to hire the person if you get >> I just want to get the budget process done. >> Cut it in half. >> Yeah. >> Fine. By the time you hire somebody, >> I'm not looking to short change you. I want you to have the ability to hire
somebody because I do know that you need have the need. But at the same token, >> yeah, you're just saying you're getting parttime people. >> Just go down to 45, cut it down 35,000 just in the event that we do get lucky enough to hire somebody. I I would make that.
>> Yes. I'll resend that motion. >> I resend that motion. And I'll make a new motion to uh >> Was it >> to No, it wasn't >> it. >> Oh, did you second? >> No, I didn't second. She didn't second. >> Councilwoman uh William,
>> sorry. The clerk was telling Anderson. >> Yeah, I thought somebody second. >> All right. So, you say 45,000 then you'll be you'll be okay. >> That will be so that we can support Mr. Deian. >> Okay. So, that'll be my motion to take that number down to 45,000. And if
there's more discussion, I'm more than happy to hear from my colleagues on my council. >> Is there a second? >> Yes, I second. >> Williams has some a comment. >> I I don't I don't have a comment except that we're impacting and impeding the
work that gets the town moving on. We have the worst reputation for new businesses to come into this municipality and try and get open. and these are the inspectors that are going to allow for new businesses to open,
construction to be done. Okay? >> And um I I just don't agree that we need people and part of the reason why we don't have them is because we don't pay a salary for them to want to come here. So I I'm not going to support reducing
that. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yeah. I I don't see where we're impeding. we're simply prrating uh based upon the expectations of the earliest that we can bring somebody in. Now, if you're arguing we should pay them more, uh I'm not disagreeing with you, but
that's something that we have to take a harder look at in terms of comparing what other places pay and that sort of thing, but given what we're doing, given the facts that tonight, this is >> this is not impeding them in my opinion. >> Right. We are pro. >> Thank you, Council President.
>> Okay. I just have one last comment. Yes. Yeah. I I don't appreciate the impeding line. Um because that's not the intent here. The intent here again is to have a budget that reflects what we're with with zerobased budgeting and actual numbers. This is what we did all last
year. If you watched in the 18 council meetings last year, we had >> Yeah. So, it's been very painful and that's all we're trying to do. I'm very comfortable. I've had multiple multiple conversations with Mr. Moralda through the years because I am mindful of our
inspections. I've taken a lot of calls and even been kind enough to speak with uh Mr. Bean. He's been not kind enough to speak with me when we're trying to get target moving and um make sure that we have but the the problem is not with us, it's with the industry itself and
finding inspectors. So, all we're trying to do tonight is get the budget on track and moving and where it needs to be. So, I hope you find somebody full-time. I hope. If not, you have to hire more part-time people. The money's there. So,
>> we And just so you know, we are actively engaged. >> Okay, good. That's all we want. >> We interviewed somebody last week for one position. Like I said, we had the other person just submit his >> great >> transfer to another town. So, now we're looking we had that advertised out since
he submitted his resignation letter. So, and we're waiting to get the people to on board. >> Great. >> Great. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> I'm sorry. I We have a motion on the floor. I wanted to ask something about a different issue. So, I'll wait until after we complete that motion.
>> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President, yes. The motion carries. Okay, Councilman, I
>> I don't know whether I'm stepping on Councilwoman Ruden, but I also wanted to bring this is up. This is something I spoke with to uh Mr. Beyond's predecessor about the whole movement in the educational field to more vocational. We have a a huge high school
over here. We've got community colleges all around. My understanding is these these positions do not require a college degree. Uh only only primarily experience and and being able to pass the licensing. But I I just think we should be going after if you have time,
Mr. Beyond or your trade group has time to try to cultivate uh the high schoolers, the college people um uh to get into this particularly because the alternate
career is heavy duty construction and sometimes this is more attractive to certain people but uh and you can get them young, you can get them early and uh uh probably save some money there. Yeah, we do have a theater program with the high school. They do have the
carpentry classes um with the carpenters union where they go and have a internship. Um so that was a another suggestion if we can go to the direct pipeline with our students and maybe recruit and encourage some of them to
come and work for us. >> Ryan Delgersio, so you need to speak. >> Yeah. >> Councilwoman Ruden, did you have something? Um, just so are are we done with that? Oh, yes. I would like to I would like to
understand, Mr. Beondi, why didn't you put in and ask for a plumbing inspector? >> Why didn't I put it there? >> No. in my electric. >> Did you lose the Well, you lost a a fire
>> subcon. >> Okay. So, when did you lose the plumbing inspector? >> Few months ago. >> Well, then it should be in here. Should be. So, look, I hate to spend money, but that's a position that should have been
listed on here, shouldn't it? >> Yeah, I should have I should have listed it. >> And And if you do not have a plumbing inspector, how do you handle that? >> I have it. >> I'm inspect. >> So, you you are also a plumbing inspector? >> Yes.
>> So, for the rest of this year, do you need a plumbing inspector? >> Yes. So, do we need to put that salary in? >> 10 inspections. Okay. 10 minutes over. >> I don't think we need to put that. >> So,
>> if this is a prrated um salary, can we move what we just saved unfortunately into a plumbing official? >> We don't do the hiring, but we can put it in the budget.
>> I'm I'm I'm just saying is that is that something that suggest and it's an oversight I guess that would happen here that the money we saved on the building inspector inspector we could flip over into the a plumbing inspector for full time
>> and then this way it would still be >> we're not saving we're not we're not spending on two full salaries for the full year and then we could add this this bottom line could probably remain the same if we do it that way >> let's do that keep it simple >> so do we need to make a motion for that
or it's just the discussion appropriate. >> I have the full >> Go ahead. >> Okay. So, um I make I make a motion to move the $40,000 we just saved into an a
category for vacant plumbing inspector. >> I'll second. >> So, the total was 40, 3333. >> Um is that correct? It was just 40,000.
>> Just 40,000. >> Okay. Sorry. >> 3003. >> Is that 40,000 an acceptable salary for a plumbing inspector? I mean, we're just throwing out numbers and we don't even know what a plumbing inspector should make.
>> To start um to start a plumbing inspector part for the for the the remainder of this year, the salary it's it's approximately 85,000. By the time we hire somebody, it's going to be probably payments. So, we're going to be a battle. So, I mean, I would more no
more I would be comfortable with no more than 45,000. We can get a full-time for the remainder of the year. >> So, should we put in $45,000 instead? >> Can I just say one thing? >> So, I'm sorry. So I my the motion that was voted on it was reduce the line item
to 45,000 from 80,333.33 which is >> 35,000 right 3333 but not 40,000 >> 40,333. Great. >> All right. So but we need to put in for
a plumbing inspector according to our business administrator at least $45,000. Great. So, we have a motion on the floor to do what? >> Hold on. >> Oh, I have a >> Councilwoman Castelino. Go ahead. >> Who already do that? But he said part-time. So, you do you'd want
parttime for the partial of the year? It's to hire a full-time plumbing inspector for part of the year, not parts. >> Okay. >> But is that what you lost or did you lose? >> We lost. >> No, we lost a full time. We lost a
full-time. We've lost so far this year um a full-time plumbing inspector, a full-time electrical inspector, and what did that uh build and build? We lost a building, and then and then we lost our uh our fire sub code official who was
part-time. He left, but we we we already had a second person in so that that was a seamless transition, so that that didn't change. All >> right. So, I just want to make sure too, Mr. Diniac, too, with the benefit packages. I mean, are you all good there? Yeah. Like we, you know, we're all talking here. We're adding this, we're adding
that. He's still there's still a piece with the benefits that >> I want to make sure do we do we is the best direction to go uh part-time. >> So, so obviously when we go full-time, the benefit package is pension. So, uh
we are going to pay the pension for someone that starts this year. we'll pay for them in two years because of the way there's a lag in in the pension calculation. But then the other big piece would be the health benefits. So
what's different about how we do health benefits is that we're self-insured. So if we bring somebody on and they don't even go to the doctor, they don't have any medical emergency, they don't take any prescription drugs,
they would cost us a minimal amount because of the fact that we're self-insured. We carry we have a carrying cost for employees. So, you know, we calculate out a fringe benefit, but isn't it's not a given that like if somebody takes family coverage, we're
going to spend $50,000 on their family coverage, for instance. So, so with all that being said, I I mean, again, I don't want to, you know, freak anybody out by having this conversation, but if I'm hearing contractors are hard to come
by to fill the positions, have we looked at utilizing any vendors to for inspections in regards to plumbing? >> Third party. >> Third party. Yeah. I mean, how much could they practically
charge for a lot inspection? >> Well, no. I I'm it's a it's I'm just City of Orange utilized a company years ago. You probably know this better than I um and they utilized a company that took like a share of the revenue
>> um to supply >> Yeah. >> the inspectors and you know, it was a real loss for for the city. um they didn't get the benefit of that UCCC revenue which I know is not supposed to support the budget but it does for everyone. Um that being said we haven't
I haven't looked at anything for the town of West Orange in that regards but >> well that's all I'm just asking to think outside the box because especially if you're having trouble finding uh staffing for these situations. >> Yeah, >> that that's that's all I >> No, it's it it's definitely something we
need to consider. Um, not to scare any of our existing inspectors, but >> to have our >> as as to a supplement maybe, you know, we can look at it. >> No. Yes. As a supplement. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Um, just wanted to understand what the shared service um opportunities would be
around inspectors. I know obviously if one of us has to have something inspected, we borrow from a neighboring town. Um, what's the possibility of doing that to save uh some type of funds? So what we did with our our uh
neighboring agencies is we've asked them if we could use utilize their people as a shared service and typically a lot of them also were in the same boat as us. So what we have done in the past, we've actually hired their part-time people when they were off and we would have to
pay them. But it's become and we we probably did probably hired about six or seven people in that capacity the last several years. But some unfortunately some have passed. Some have just gotten old and some have just retired and gone away. >> Distinguished. >> Yeah. Distinguish. I'm sorry.
Distinguished gray and nay and uh suffer from both. And um they and that's so we have done that but sometimes we and we we and and the the construction official will call other towns to help us out in in certain
capacities but it's also based on their availability too. There's a lot of construction going on in around the the area supply and demand. >> So what's the possibility of and I don't know if this makes sense or not but do you have to hire them full-time? Can you
hire them as a contract employee? >> We >> or not a contract employee, but a contractor. >> We have have had hired part- timerrs in the past when we lack the ability to get the full-time. We would say, "Hey, what's your availability? We can only do part-time." Well, half a loaf is better
than no loaf. So, we would do that and that's >> and that would save us on benefits. Yeah. >> So, if we could if we could really, you know, focus on hiring part- timerrs as opposed to one full-time position. >> When we advertise, we do full-time
part-time. We have we say it's a full-time part-time because we're not going to just say it's only full-time only. If somebody says, "Hey, I can do I can throw you 25 hours a week." >> Okay. >> 25 hours is better than zero hours. >> Thank you for the Thank you for the explanation. >> Councilwoman Ruben, did you have
um No. Okay. Can't remember at this point. Sorry. That motion on >> What was the motion? >> Um K for this for the >> Right. I I'll make an amendment based on the business administrator's
recommendation that that be increased to 45. >> We need a motion to We need a second on your amend motion to amend. >> Okay. A second >> and and a vote on the motion to amend the motion. >> Okay, hold on a minute.
>> Okay. So, and council president, you second that. >> Yeah. Decreased to >> and you want to add 45,000. >> I want it >> you want to amend it to 40. >> Amend it to 45. >> Well, it's not 40. It's $35,333
in whatever it is. I want to amend it to the BA's recommendation. And he said 45, >> right? about whatever. >> Well, the reason why she's saying that is because then it would just be a a wash and there wouldn't be any >> but you can't hire somebody for $35,000. He just said that
>> they got overtime. They could pull for a couple hundred bucks. >> Um motion if it's a person that's a part- timerr, they don't get overtime. >> So, you can't pull from that line item if they're a part-time person that we hire.
>> Are we spinning our wheels or do we need to do this? Do we need to up this to 45 once >> I I I made I made the recommendation to 45. That's that was my recommendation that that's the council. >> Okay. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. >> There we go.
>> So can I ask the question? >> Okay. I just want to go over this. We had a vacancy for building inspector. We decided that we reduced it to $40,000 mean meaning that we had an additional $40,333
left on the table. >> No 43. >> You reduced it to 45,000 from $80,333. >> No, >> that was the motion. >> That was the motion. Okay. >> So you do the math there. >> I have 45.
>> Okay. >> All right. This is for a second. >> So we have 35 on the table. 3533. And I would just like to say that >> yeah, >> you know this we are in a budget crunch. I was trying to save money because
frankly there's been a lot of overtime and you've you've had a lot of overtime and I don't know whether that's that's because of the plumbing issue and we want to want to save money but I think that just moving it over into this amount and let's call it a day. I do not
agree with adding another $10,000 on top of that. Let's see how this goes. Let's see if we can get somebody in part-time. And you know, we've we've saved this money for your department. And I think that that's that's enough.
>> So, so we're pending a motion to amend the original motion at >> Wait, but the original motion didn't have a second. >> Didn't have a second. So, have this motion on the floor. Okay. >> They tell you to be on your toes when you came here today. the second then then then you can just amend on the >> We have to vote. We have to
>> All right. So So you're really just amending that line item. You're not amending the original motion. Okay. All right. So there is a motion in a second. So I'm now I'm going to take the vote on the amount of $45,000. Councilwoman Castelino
>> for the vacant position is going to be 45,000 >> for the plumbing inspe plumbing inspector after you >> because we passed the other one. That's what I said to you, Madam Clerk. We've passed that already. The 45. >> No, no, no, we did not. There was no second. >> No,
>> I'm sorry. No, no. Yes, we did. We did. Just move it. >> We did. Then >> Councilwoman Rud Ruden wanted to add $35,333.33 to that. We just upped it to Coun and there was no second. Then Councilwoman Williams said she wants to add 45,000
to that line. >> Okay. Right. >> And then what did you just do? She's not 45,000 to that line for the plumbing inspector >> because that was the recommendation from the BA. >> Yeah. >> BA recommended 45,000 for the plumbing
inspector. >> Correct. >> Which we made. >> Council person, I just want to clarify so that Councilwoman >> Celino understands. What I was trying to do is just shift the money and not add another $10,000 into this budget.
>> Where you shifting it from? The over shifting it from the building inspector. We had um >> 80,333. We have >> that was the balance. Yes. Yes. Shifting that into the plumbing inspector and I
my recommendation is to keep it at that. This is going to be >> motion on the floor. >> Part time. I'm just explaining. Yeah, that Well, that's what I was thinking. Leaving that 40 33 33 and then it would just be a wash. >> No, it's 35
hire a plumber for $35,000. >> We're hiring. >> Okay, let's not argue it out. We're hiring a part-time person >> and and we have just saved this. >> We cannot. >> No, we as I explained, we're advertising for a full-time part-time position. If
it's one or the other, the we're going to take whichever one comes to us. They'd like the option. >> They prefer a full-time. >> They'd like the option to have a for another $10,000 to have a full-time person. So, >> can we now go back to the vote, Madam Clerk? >> Yes. Councilwoman Castellini. >> So, I'm going to vote yes.
>> Okay. Thank you. Councilman Kroviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Uh, pres. >> All right. The motion carries. >> All right. When are you advertising this position? >> Ready to advertise.
So my recommendation is to don't consent on this page and see what you actually do with the hiring process. >> We'll give you >> okay and then we can consent after you hire and then we know if we have a full-time person or a part-time person
>> and then everybody ever. >> All right. >> So this is page 183 that we are keeping open, right? >> Yeah. Councilman Kobe, >> I'm not sure if there's a loose end, but what we just voted on was the amendment
to the original motion. So, we now still No, that's not what we're doing. >> No, that's not what we had a whole new motion. >> The first motion, there was no second. >> There was no second. >> Okay. I don't want to go through it. >> Okay. >> Let's just move. >> That's good. >> Move it right >> on your toes here. We had our budget
hearing about that tonight. So, great. >> What page are we on now? >> 184. This is page 185. The uniform construction code budget remains unchanged. >> I got a question from last year. >> Hey, Councilwoman Castelina.
>> Uh, I have my I'm just looking back at my notes. So, I guess the code books I'm all confused with this on one page on the second page 186.
I'm not sure if a mistake was made. So on 111 the code books >> it says the temporary budget 612. So do what do just I just want to make sure the money's right there that >> Yeah. So the temp the temp budget you
really can just ignore because it's only the the 35% of the prior. Um the one thing I will point out you're you're correct in pointing out the code books. We purchased two code books, hard copy code books for $194 a piece, right?
>> Um that was charged against the 030 printing line. Um I looked it up today. Um so 111 should reflect uh pull it up. >> You said 612 was spent in cobooks so far
this year. >> No, >> no, >> no. That's the temp budget is 612. The the only charge so far should be what should this line be in terms of the paid charge? >> Well, in terms of what he needs for the rest of the year, what you spent and
what you need to and how many code books you buy a year? >> Every three years, three or four years. Right now, I'm way over books. Okay. Okay. >> SP $2,000 on closing. >> So, okay.
>> So, $194 uh a book. >> So, we we we bought two. >> Um so, that should be reflected on the 111 paid charge line. >> Okay. So, seven So, my So, my question
is the 1748 I don't know where that number came from, but you're okay with it? Yes, that that should work. >> Okay, that was question number one. Then the fund for same thing too for private
property repairs. That line's okay too cuz you showed that you had 14510 you spent last year. And so those are the repairs that we do for residents and then we get the money
back from them when they sell >> maintenance lean properties. Yeah. So so we don't know when we're going to get paid on them. You know, best case scenario is we we'd get paid that year. >> Worst case is, you know, when the property gets sold, we'd get our money
because we don't sell these at tax sale. We don't sell property maintenance leans at tax sale. And last year you spent 14,510. This year we haven't had a situation, but have you been running years prior? Has that been I know I know
you can't predict it, but I'm >> the tree removals do the most damage to this line item. Like >> mowing lawns and stuff like that is not that expensive, but the the tree removal Mhm.
>> Yeah. So bord like we have a a structure fire something like that and place is deemed unsafe. We have to call an emergency get people in there. So we we call on the boardup companies and that's that's an emergency cure. You know we just call them they come out and we've had several last years.
>> Can't get in touch with the people from the hospital. So, >> no, no, no. I I I I totally been supportive of those, but they usually have come to the council and I haven't seen any come to the council. So >> like yeah, we had one on oh god I forget
by uh what street it was one year there was a elderly uh person that you know obviously couldn't manage their home and there was a lot of issues and we had to go and take care of the property and there was a lean put on but there was it
was done by resolution so I just that's why I haven't I was asking >> yeah no I understand those so we're paying for just for that's >> so it doesn't come out of the fire department. >> That doesn't come out. >> No, no, I wouldn't expect that to be uh Okay. All right. So, that you're good
with that. That's all. I just had those questions. And then the professional service one, you didn't have anything last year. You had something this year already. The 1482. Is there enough there? And what did you use that for?
Professional service line 200 >> the time span. I'm not sure if they >> Yeah, the American time recorder that goes under uh 110. >> We do an annual test on the timestamper. >> So, for the sake of us getting this
budget accurate, should it it says they're professional services. So, what do you want to put there? >> Let's do the actuals. >> Nothing. I mean, we can move it. I I don't recommend touching this OE budget. The state looks at the UCCC budgets and
it's so low as it is that uh any reductions to this budget >> reduce. I'm going to ask if you want to change the name on the lion item. >> Probably could use it in printing because you guys buy the the permit forms and folders and paper
constantly. So, >> Councilmania Oh, I'm sorry. Councilman Ruden wanted to go first. >> Are you finished? >> Well, I just I just want to hear what his recommendation was that he he wants to do. >> I would probably consolidate it. If I
were to consolidate him, maybe we we put the money in in printing and we really just call it forms um because that's really what we buy with it. and uh code books,
maintenance and repair >> and leave the rest in the fund for private property repairs. >> They don't have any professional services. They don't hire a lawyer. They don't hire >> an accountant. They don't >> Yeah. >> They don't hire the engineer. Like
>> maybe at some point there was some professional service many years ago that they >> Yeah. they actually had to use in UCCC. >> Okay. So, so that's fine, but what do you want to do with it? Where you want to put professional services? >> You want to change the name on that line
or you want to just you're just going to move that amount to line 30? >> Let's put it in in furniture >> since you have a lot of old broken stuff in in the office. So, and I know we replaced some things last year.
>> Okay. What broken items do we have that we still need replacing? >> You got like a Some of those desks are shot >> um right in the UCCC main corridor where the support staff sit. Those desks are
old. They're like the 1960s. >> I was waiting for his floor. >> We just had some donations. That's why I'm asking of furniture. >> They went into the the bullpen, right? Um in the in the room closest to Mike.
Is that where we got the donations that furniture? >> You already got it. >> Next to the health department where the inspectors sit >> where housing uh code enforcement sits. >> Yeah. That's that's where they went,
right? The donation that's donated furniture. Yeah. >> Me. >> Oh, >> yeah. So, where the code enforcement officers sit, I I call it like a bull. It's like a bullpen over there. >> Is there anything left or is it all gone? >> I don't honestly I don't know.
>> I don't think so. >> Find out. >> I don't think so. We had some >> We had some stuff that was just >> We got rid of it a while ago. >> Okay. But anyway, you're going to put this 1482 with furniture. That's what you're recommending.
>> Sure. Where's the furniture line? Wait a second. >> 109. Okay, that madam clerk. >> Yeah, but do I need a motion? >> We should have a on that. >> Why though? You're not you're not increasing or decreasing the overall
budget. These are just sub accounts. >> People tell tell us what what what it >> I'll throw a motion. >> Yeah. All right. Okay. So, do a motion then. All right. I make a motion to move line 200 to into line and eliminate it
and move it into line 109. >> A second. >> 200 to 109. Okay. Is there any discussion? >> No. >> No. No. Let's just go. >> Councilwoman Castle. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. No.
>> Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. Okay. The motion carries. Oops. Councilwoman Castle, are you sure you got >> I'm done. >> Okay. So, it's Councilwoman Rhoden's turn and then uh Councilman Co. Yes.
>> Okay. So, I I wanted to clean up a line of the code books that were purchased. >> They are the newest code books that you have. And do you need any more code books than that? >> You do need more. >> Okay. So, you spent $388 on code books
that actually came from the printing, >> right? >> Can we make an adjustment? Reduce the printing. >> Yeah, I I have a note there to uh to change a paper charged to pull 388 out of the 1523. >> Okay. >> And put it online 111. >> And how many code books did you buy with
388? >> Two. >> Two. And how many more do you need? I got approximately eight. >> And are these all the same code books? >> I'm sorry. >> Are these all the same?
>> Okay. >> To each. >> All right. So for the category of fund for private property repairs, I really don't know why we're in this business of cleaning up properties that are left
unmaintained. Why why West Orange does this and why we if we do do this, we contract it out. Why doesn't the DPW if if you have to mow a lawn, mow a lawn? >> It's we do that, too. >> Closing a structure. So, uh, kids can't
get in, animals can't get in. It's support the windows that the fireman break down. >> That is So, isn't that something that DPW can do? No, that's too dangerous. >> More like specialized garbage treatment. I don't know.
>> Yeah. Well, most of the most of the the boardups in in this nature that go with the construction officials because he's deeming the the structure uninhabitable. So, we have to get somebody that specializes. They come out right away. They have the material on hand. They
provide the board up material, whether it be plywood, things of that nature. They have the nail guns and everything else. Our DPW is not geared up to do that kind of work. Can our our DPW people perform contracting work? Sure, they can do that, but they don't they're not geared for that. We don't have it.
>> And they respond, which is very >> Okay. But >> it's and it's a non overtime situation. They just pay we pay a fee. That's what it is. We're not paying our salaries to our employees. >> I have seen bills that we pay outside contractors to mow p u private property
that is not municipal property. Can we get DPW to do do that? >> That's that's property maintenance that does it. That's part of the property maintenance that that we we speak about. We don't go on to address >> construction has nothing to do with that
wasn't that's a DPW. >> Right. That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. >> He doesn't do property maintenance. >> But this this is under private property repairs. >> Correct. So that's that is what's what's charged there. I said it's um tree
removal um were our our most expensive items in 2025 and then we had um >> we did have >> and we recoup that >> we had a company that mowed
>> yes so so shouldn't that be a a zero then no >> since we are recouping that money >> no Because if if we recouped it in in the current year, I would be allowed to refund the line item. But what ends up usually happening is we put the
maintenance lean on and once the property is sold, then we would be made whole and then at that point it comes in as a miscellaneous revenue not anticipated. >> So year to date, nothing in this account has been spent >> in 2026. Correct. Yeah. So is there room
to reduce this since nothing has been spent and you know that there could be there could be a couple of incidents but >> just >> and I would think like the tall grass situations are probably going to start
occurring now that we're in the growing season and >> um we historically We we've just we've spent around that that same amount. So, >> unless you
>> Okay. Are we finished? >> Yes. >> Okay. Good. >> Well, actually, we did >> we did one this year, but last year I think two last year. >> All right. >> We're going to move on. I think I think we understand the situation.
>> Consent. done. >> He's done. >> All right. So, we'll see everybody on Monday. >> We go before we go. I did send out an email. I asked because I was asking last
night and the council president I sent based on our availabilities. I did send out the other day or a week or so ago May 18th, May 20th and June 1st to set up additional meetings ahead of time so we can notify the public. >> May 18th and 20th because next week we
have we have budget meeting on Monday and the council meeting on Tuesday. The following week we can do a Monday and a Wednesday to get two done. >> Then the following week is Memorial Day and a council meeting. So June 1st will be the following week. That will give us three meetings if it meets everybody's
schedule. That that accommodates what we can do and we you know I check with our staff to make sure. >> Did you say June 1st? >> Yes, I did. >> Before election can I can because I have my stuffing. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I just didn't we had discussed
>> Can I make a recommendation? Yeah. Go ahead. So Okay. So it's only five after nine eight. Why can't the clerk prepared? >> I'm not prepared. >> How you not prepared? >> Because I have not really reviewed it
and I don't I don't >> and the public is not it was publicly not. >> It is I got I got this I got this off the computer my agenda. Okay. >> It it's on there. >> The agenda was up for a week and that and again we should be willing to do our
job and we can go through it here. We don't have to have prior knowledge. We can go line by line for us to do that. Now we have a whole another hour. >> I mean the clerk's office is no offense. It's nothing >> she's not got to cut. >> I I I mean we still have to We didn't
never did the police last week. Now we got it. We're backed up with >> At least we could do the clerk. She's sitting right here. >> I mean are you prepared, madam clerk? >> Yeah, I have JD with me over there so he could help. >> I I move that we go ahead and do the clerk's um
>> Yeah, council. We got We can knock that out. That one's not that bad. That one's real. I looked at that today. It's nothing. There's not much room there. There really isn't anything. There's not much to investigate there. >> Let's just take a look and if you're not comfortable, we'll we'll table it. >> Well, if the you know,
>> let's take a quick we I know everybody wants to get out of here, but >> I don't want it's hard for me to be here on another night. >> We're not going back and forth. >> Yes. Sorry. >> So 518. What was the other one? >> 51.
>> Yeah. I said those two days at least for now. >> Okay. >> And and the first >> the first the clerk said that's the night before the election and we did not. So I'll look at another date and float them to you. But I would like to set that up so we can at least set the agendas ahead.
>> 518 and 520. Correct. >> Same time. >> And who are you looking to have next week? >> Next week you should have >> Okay, that's on here. Okay. >> I gave you a visit. Health tax in
>> Mr. >> Recreation Health. >> It's up to Council President. >> Not too hard, right? >> Council President. >> Yes, >> we need a vote. How do you want to do that? >> Yeah. Councilwoman Ruden, could you think we can take a look at it? If if you don't feel comfortable, we'll table
it, but let's try to do it. >> Feb, do you think you could take a look at the clerks? >> This is a rocket science, folks. I mean, for your >> What a guy. >> What a guy. >> I mean, and that's what I'm saying. >> That's why he's my appointee.
>> Let's go. Let's do it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is >> Okay. What page are we on? >> We have a whole We'll go a little bit >> 24. Oh, yeah. Go over there. You can face us.
>> We're going to put you in the hot seat. Okay. So, I have a question. Wow. We've got I got a question right off the bat. >> What pages are 24? >> 24. Go first. Go ahead. >> I'll go first since I investigated this. >> Go ahead. >> All right. Madam clerk. >> Madame clerk. There's actually a
question. >> There's actually a question for you. >> So, which one? >> Let her get her like that for >> Yeah. Go ahead. Well, do you think? >> Yeah. And tell us what they grow.
>> Council President, we are going to start on page 24. The township clerk salary and wages for 2026 is a very small increase is $36,254. We have two um positions that uh are filled and we had one part-time position
that was terminated on February 27th. Okay. >> Of this year. So m you you want me go ahead. So madam clerk, I'll start things off. Yes. So with I know you have one of your deputy
mental clerk out on leave currently and so as far as you know her salary and what you when I don't know when she's coming back and what like are you looking still for a
part-time person? Okay. right now. So, are all your needs met with the state of this budget here? >> Yes. So, currently she is um working remotely for me. Okay. >> She was on leave for 3 months. >> Um she is working remotely. She's
expected to return on June 1st. Um the reason a part-time person is needed is because within the next couple of years, I will be retiring. >> Um and Dina, I'm sorry. So, my deputy clerk
does Oprah and she spends the majority of her day doing Oprah. >> Um, for a couple of months while she was out, I was handling that and everything else. It was >> a nightmare to say the least. So, um, in
order for me to accurately ch, uh, train her to eventually take over the position, I need someone else in the office because otherwise we're I I have not been able to train her. You know, she's not able to sit with me. You know,
she hasn't learned ABC licensing. She she doesn't do any of the licensing. Um, there's just no time in the day when she's working on Oprah. So I I have to have that third person so that they can take over at least 4 hours a day and I
can sit with her and work with her. >> And I'm okay with that. But I don't I only see what's budgeted is the $1,400 for the person you had the part-time person. you have money in there for and again so the way you know the
leave worked the 80,000 for your deputy uh clerk is that ACRA figure what that employee is going to get paid to the end of the year >> correct you know give it give or take a few dollars >> okay so do you have do you need to add
any money for the part-time clerk >> so if you really wanted to fund a part-time clerk that was someone external, not internal. You'd have to put more money in. Uh I I trimmed every department I could
for this budget. So I made the decision to >> okay >> to trim out the the part time. Don't hate me for it, but I was thinking, okay, maybe we can take someone internally that's already earning a salary and reallocate them for a couple hours and and try to fulfill that need.
>> But, you know, we've done some internal reviews of our personnel and we really haven't come up with anyone that we feel could >> overtime. Now
you have 4,000 overtime. Now obviously your person's out on leave, so they're not going to be making the 4,000. So are you utilizing that towards his part-time person's going to come back soon, you know, full-time. I mean, they're they're working remotely, but they will be back
in the swing of things. And there's going to be days where I'm sure that person's gonna >> days, both election days, >> work election, work a meeting. if madame clerk, you know, wants to take a day off. So, there's going to be some utilization of OT,
I'm sure. >> All right. I'm just, like I said, I'm just if there's any recommendations to be made, I just wanted to you just see how we were
doing. I mean, I know she's been crazy. >> Trim to the bone here. So, if you're good with leaving it, I'm fine with that, too. I didn't know if anything else needed to be added or not. >> Not sure. >> And then the because you have money that
you budgeted for the municipal elections OE, which is in a another page, is is that part of >> the overtime, you know, that's all that has to do with your county. the bill
goes up every year or so. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And we'll talk about the why that's increased for this year. Um but yeah, that's all I just wanted to give you opportunity to have a conversation about it.
>> Councilwoman Rudy. >> Yes. Um can you tell me was the your your um assistant on FMLA? >> We can't get into personnel. Well, I'd just like to know how whether or not that person who was not working during
those months was paid her full salary or whether that was on >> that's not to be discussed in public. >> Yeah, >> it's a personal issue. >> I will say in generally the employees are afforded sick time, personal time, vacation time
generally and they can utilize those days when there is a leave. a very general statement about time for employees and when they run out of that time we do not pay them. So if they run out of those days those acred days they
go unpaid and they generally will have job protections under the federal uh medical leave act FMLA. Yeah. Um okay that that's job protection. It's not a benefit. There's no compensation for
FMLA. It's just a job protection. So if that individual, whoever that is, didn't used all their days, they just would be unpaid. >> Got it. So how much was paid? H how much was was spent for that category to date?
>> We don't we don't track it separately. We use the days and then we we would just it's just gross wages. So are you saying like how much was paid for those days off? >> No, I'm saying I know a due date. How much has that
>> for that particular individual? We have that on on page 25 now through >> so that looks like >> through payroll 8 is $21,855,
>> right? So, and be careful >> whoever that is. >> Right. I understand. But what had she been working or this employee been working full-time here, what would
the rate have been? >> I I think there's only a few unpaid days. Karen, you you can speak to there's not there wasn't there weren't too many unpaid days, right? Oh. >> Up until this date, I would caution that
we start talking about this. >> Yeah, I I would be very careful in getting into individual personnel issues without having provided proper notice. >> Yeah, >> we didn't do a rice notice. We didn't do anything even though the name's not up here. Yes. I I would caution that we're we're now getting into an area of in
public comment about employees time and everything else. While we may not know the person's names up here and identify, it's not too difficult to figure out. So, >> okay, >> I will just recommend we stop talking. All right. But >> if if the goal is to reduce the 80,521
ask, I would caution against it. Again, again, I there was a fly in my face. Um I don't think there were many days unpaid, so I don't think there's much breakage there. >> No, but there's probably enough to cover the part the part-time need. So,
>> no. No. >> And no. >> Is this full-time or part-time? This person's full-time. >> Full-time right now remotely. >> Yes. >> Coming back shortly.
>> Okay. >> And it was a godsend that she >> Okay. Again, you're getting into and listen, we're not, you know, we're I'm asking my questions and from what I
hear there is we're just trying to figure out do we have to add anything where where it could already be covered and and so I mean again this is kind of this is where we're at. We're trying to >> close these budget drafts.
>> All right. So, are we consent on this page? I'll >> consent on this. Thank you. pretty good on anybody have any on the next page or can we consent? >> Yeah, I the council president on 140 on municipal elections
>> it was 37,000 last year. >> Um I believe it was less than that the year before. You're asking for 45. Um has anything been spent to date? It won't be sent until after the election's over. >> Right. So So zero has been spent to
date. How many elections are there? >> Two. >> Okay. >> Primary in general. No special. >> I do know. I'm just I'm just getting that out on the record. Um so um >> but we only pay for one. We only pay for uh one
>> general. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Okay. So that seems high to me. since you last year >> every year. >> Last year it was 37. That's a very big increase. That's >> last year was 37, but it was actually >> 32 extra from
>> Yeah. >> That's here. It says here paid or charged 36. >> I could only charge that much to that line item. We got the bill what? November, whatever it was >> after the >> December and it was like 42,000. So >> I had to take it from another department
to make up the difference. >> All right. Right. I think we're good. Can we incent on that? >> Set. >> You win. You're done. >> Thank you for your flexibility. >> All right. So, we're done. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> See,
>> we got another one. >> Another 20 minutes save. >> Is there a motion to adjurnn? So move. >> All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? >> Thank you.