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It wasn't part of the June 17 planning board meeting called to order. This advised that notice of time, date, location to the extent known agenda of subject meeting was prominently posted public place reserve as such a similar announcements on June 3rd, 2026,

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transmitted to the times the Princeton packet on June 3rd, 2026 and filed with the township clerk on June 3rd, 2026. Please call the role. >> Mr. Patel, >> yes. >> Mr. Shaktel, >> here. >> Mr. Panov, >> yes.

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>> Mr. B. Miss Bar, >> yes. >> Miss Apple, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Jvers, >> here. >> Mayor Marteek, >> yes. >> Vice Chairman Hobberman, >> here. >> Chairman Cart, >> here. Thank you. We have quum.

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Okay. Uh, at this time, I'd like to open it up um public for any comments on non-aggenda non-pending items. Please step up the mic and state your name and address for the record. You'll be sworn in. Seeing none, I'll entertain um

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uh view of the May 6, 2026 meeting minutes. Any comments, changes, uh clarifications, additions? Anybody? Um I'm going to abstain because I was not here for that um meeting.

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>> I'll move approval of the minutes of May 6, 2026. >> Okay. And second >> Okay. Um Simon U and Allan. >> Correct. >> Um please call the role for all those that can vote.

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>> Mr. Patel. >> Yes. >> Mr. Sheel. >> Yes. >> Mr. Panco. >> Yes. Miss Applicant, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Jvers, yes. >> Mayor Morte, >> yes.

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>> Vice Chairman Hogerman, >> yes. >> Okay. Meeting minutes approved. Thank you. >> Okay. Next up, resolution PB26-02, the Mark F wall tenant improvements, preliminary preliminary final major site

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plan. Any changes, amendments, uh, corrections, um, additions, clarifications needed on that. >> I have one question at the end where you sign off on it. If you were not at that meeting, should that read Curtis's name

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at the end? It says I'm absent here. >> I know, but at the end you're signing the resolution page 10. >> Oh, yeah. I say maybe Curtis needs to sign it instead of me. >> Thank you. Good catch.

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>> I think I signed here. >> Yep. Okay. Need to change. Hold on a second. Need to change the signature page on a resolution page. Okay. No, it goes to Curtis. has assume that

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a second. >> Okay. I'll entertain a motion to approve PB26-2 market fol uh tenant improve improvements with the change in the signature page to Curtis. >> So move Mr. Chairman >> moved by Simon second by Allan. Please

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call the role in favor that vote. >> Mr. Patel >> yes. >> Mr. Sheel >> yes. >> Mr. Pancove >> yes. >> Mayor Marte >> yes. Councilwoman Jvers, >> yes. >> Miss Applegat, >> yes.

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>> And Vice Chairman Hobberman, >> yes. >> Okay. Um, resolution is approved. Thank you. Out of paper here. Sorry. Okay.

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Next up, application PB26-05 Woodstone Residential Annex LLC. Preliminary final major site plan 200 Farber Road, block 86, lot 58.02. >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, board members, board profession.

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>> Good evening. Um, I'll just say that the proof of publication and notice is in order and that the board can take jurisdiction. Welcome. >> Thank Peter Wilson. Welcome Dave Bney here on behalf of the applicant. I've indicated the application concerns

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property located at 10200 Barber Road, formerly known as One Meadow Road, designated as block 86 lot 5802 on the township tax map. The property contains approximately 3.29 acres and is located

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partially within the R-5F residents affordable housing district and partially within the B2 business district. As the board may recall, this property received previous approvals pursuant to resolution EB2401

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for a two-phase development consisting of a preschool daycare facility and a commercial office building. The Mount Or school component of that approval is currently under construction on the southern portion of the property within the B2 zone.

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Subsequent to that approval, the township adopted its fourth round affordable housing plan and reszone the northern portion of the property into the R-5F residence affordable housing district. The township specifically identified

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this site as an opportunity for inclusionary affordable housing development. As part of the township's fourth round affordable housing compliance requirements, the applicant acknowledges that the proposed residential development replaces the previously approved office building

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approved as phase two of PB1. Accordingly, the effective upon its receipt of all outside approvals and building permits should we be approved tonight agrees to abandon and relinquish any right to develop phase 2 pursuant to

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the prior approval and is agreeable to an appropriate condition on approval memorial. This commitment does not affect the previously approved Malvin school development which constitutes phase one of PV2401.

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So accordingly, the applicant is before you tonight seeking amended preliminary and final major site plan to replace the previously approved office building with a fourstory multifamily building containing 35 dwelling units including

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nine affordable housing units together with associated site improvements. Limited improvements are also proposed for the B2 portion of the property to integrate the residential overall development.

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While no requirement exists for amenities to be located on this site, the applicant plans to allow residents of this proposed residential development to have access to the recreational amenities located with the ex within the existing Woodmach community located

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across Canal Point Boulevard. In addition, the property will be governed through a condominium ownership structure encompassing both the previously approved school and the proposed residential component. The applicant has prepared a draft, master

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deed uh and bylaw documents which establish responsibility for ownership, operation and maintenance of the common elements and shared infrastructure serving the overall development including private access drives, parking areas, stormwater management facilities,

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utilities and other common improvements. Importantly, the applicant is not requesting any variances in connection with the application here tonight. only a handful of design waiverss and through our testimony from our experts. You'll hear those design waiverss detail.

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We uh for the record want to acknowledge receipt of a number of review letters. We received the planning review memorandum from Mr. Novak at the Burgess Associates dated June 8 of this year. Planning board review memorandum number one uh

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prepared by Quaza and Mazo and William Ding of Aurora Associates. Graphic review dated June 11, 2026. Engineering review memorandum prepared by Francis of music. Township of engineer dated June

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11, 2026. Landscape Architecture Review Memorandum prepared by Edward Snikis Associates dated June 15, 2026. And finally, a fire and emergency services memorandum prepared by Chief Timothy Moth Lynch

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dated June 12th, 2026 and updated on June 17, 2026. The applicant has reviewed each of these reports and largely agrees with the comments and recommendations contained therein. To the extent the applicant feels that discussion or clarification is

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necessary, that issue will be specifically identified and addressed on the record uh during the testimony. The applicant intends to present the following witnesses. Michael Marinelli PE of Mello engineering, our project engineer. Stephen Titi, registered

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architect, architect on the project. And finally, David Shropshire, Shropshire Associates, our traffic engineer. If the board has no questions of me, I would call Mr. Marinella. We if you don't mind, we'd like to swear in all your witnesses at the same time and then

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they could just step up when they're ready. >> Sure. You could all raise your right hand and do so well affirm that the testimony shall give this evening will be the truth. Thank you. And as you come up, if you just give your name again, please,

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and spell it for me. Thank you. >> Okay. I need a microphone or >> Oh, do we need microphone to record? >> Yeah. Good evening. Just state your name and your business address for the record.

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>> Sure. My name is Michael Marinelli M A R I N E L L I of Mal Engineering located at 261 Cleveland Avenue in Highland Park, New Jersey. >> And for uh the benefit of the board and the public, can you share with us your educational professional and lensure? >> Of course. I'm a graduate of records

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engineering class of 1999. I've been practicing in site planning uh since that time at Men Meno Engineering. Uh I am a licensed professional in the state of New Jersey and I have been for 17 years. Uh I I've performed or given

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testimony in front of multiple boards across the state, many boards, but not this one. This one will be the first uh Windsor I can add to the list. And you've been accepted the next person before those boards. >> Of course. Yes. >> We'd ask that he'd be accepted as the next. >> Your license is current. >> Yes.

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>> Yeah. Accepted. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Michael, can you orient us to the site that are existing conditions and then lead us through the disposal? >> Yeah, sure. I have an uh an exhibit on the easel market >> A1.

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>> It's entitled Wood Wood Woodstore Residential Annex existing conditions exhibit dated 61726. As you can see, it's an arrow representation of the subject property, which is the regular shape central to the exhibit and the property line is is

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highlight. The property known as block 86, lot 58.02 or 200 for the road is approximately 300 3.29 acres. It has frontages on three roads. So, running left to right across the top of of the

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site is Canal Point Boulevard. Immediately to the west uh is Farber Road and immediately to the east is Meadow Road. So the site has uh three frontages. I'm just going to do even though the true north is off at a 45 degree angle. I'm going to make all

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relationships here based on a plan north, south, east, west. Uh as you can see the surrounding areas uh across Canal Point Road uh Canal Point Boulevard is the existing Woodmont residential.

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Uh you heard Mr. Wilson talk about the amenities that uh you can see them on exhibit A1 that that that existing community utilizes. Uh you'll see there's industrial flex space type uses immediately to the west across Far

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Harbor and then the mall is located to the east across Meadow Road. Uh you'll see in this exhibit the there's a lot of beige area. That's because that is the uh daycare facility or the the school that was previously improved and is under construction. So this is a

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relatively recent uh aerial photograph. Um it's further along than this now. another approximately 80% completion on that southern portion of the site. Uh that Malver school is on a 1.75 acre

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part of the of the parcel in the B2 zone. It's a two twostory just to remind the board it's a two-story 11,000 some odd square foot daycare facility. Uh what the board had previously approved in the undisturbed area on the north

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side of the site uh was a 9,136 uh commercial structure um deemed an office that that was on a section of the site of 1.54

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acres which is now in the R F I'm sorry R-5F zone. Um what was approved for circulation on this site was a full access drive central to the site off of Fur Road and a right out exit only onto Meadow Road.

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Those access points as you can see on exhibit A1 have already been constructed uh and are in the process of being finalized. Uh existing utilities. So you can kind of see it in in this exhibit. You'll see it better on the next. the detention

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facilities are on the southern side of the project and that controls all of the storm water management for the entire project that was and that was all approved as part of the the phase one approval. Uh as Mr. Wilson said subsequent to the

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original approval which was PP24-01 the township adopted ordinance 2026-04 uh where the northern port portion of the property again 1.54 acres of it was reszone into the R-5 affordable housing

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district the the current plan which I'm now showing on E is I'll mark it as exhibit A2. Exhibit A2 is entitled Woodstone Residential Annex overall plan exhibit dated 617

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2026. This is the same aerial photo background, but we've now zoomed in a little bit more so we could see a little bit more of the details of the site where the previously approved Malver uh school has

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been shadowed in on the southern portion of the site and all of the proposed improvements for what is now a fourstory multif family residential unit with associated parking is on on the north side and highlighted in color. We also

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note that the landscape has been turned on in this particular exhibit. The applicant is here this evening seeking approval to amend the preliminary and final major major site plan to replace the previously approved office building with this four-story

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multif family residential building in which is a permitted use within the new R-5 affordable housing district. The building contained 35 dwell dwelling units including nine affordable units and that breakdown will be uh discussed

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when the architect is before you. As you can see we we've laid out the parking so that it's available on three sides. uh the F fervor road avenue the or fur

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road rightway the southern side and the meadow road frontage the area between the building and canal point road has been built as a buffer uh similar to the development across the street raised elevation and significant plantings

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along along that northern edge so the In this proposed change, the access points are the same. They're not being modified in any way. And if you can see on the exhibit, we we've highlighted a yellow line where all of the the improvements south of that

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yellow line are already under construction are to remain exactly the same. Uh with one exception that I'll get to in a moment. Um what you'll see is we we're proposing 67 uh parking spaces around the site. This

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includes nine driveway locations which are on the south side of the building depicted by a red herring bone brick pattern. Uh and behind those driveway locations are also nine garages. So

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those those uh those driveways and garages would be would be leasable to potential tenants of the 35 units. Again, the building is located entirely within the R5 affordable housing

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district. The building placement utilizes the infrastructure that has already been approved and and constructed. the the design maintains a separation between the school. You'll see that the

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school has a separate parking area both north and east of the building under construction. And then there's a secondary driveway connection off of the main drive that leads to the residential. So, they have some separate

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parking areas that are exclusive to the two two particular uses. the the to review the zoning again. This is a permitted use within the zone. The density is 24 units per acre uh allowed

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and 22.72 proposed. The height of the building is four stories and 60 ft permitted. Uh we are proposing four stories and 56 uh again the architect will get into

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more detail on how that is calculated. Uh the building complies with all setbacks and requirement uh yard requirements. Impervious coverage is 60 uh 59.1 proposed where 65 is permitted and it meets the affordable housing

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requirements. So again there there's no variance relief required. uh for this proposal as I said the access remains consistent with the previous approval uh you we have provided to your professionals

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uh templates that show that emergency vehicles box trucks and and larger vehicles um can can maneuver across the front of of the of the project I'm sorry across the front of the driveways which are on the southern side of the side of

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the site and turnaround exhibits have been shown to de demonstrate uh full movement throughout the parking lot. Uh the fire truck circulation has also been provided and we have a re review letter from the fire official stating

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that it meets all of his requirements with respect to fire safety. uh with with respect to that that letter, he also notes that the the fire department connection and hydrant locations are all sufficient in his

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purview. Okay. So, as I said, we're we're proposing a total of 67 parking spaces. 49 of those are surface spaces. There are two ADA spaces across um from the driveways in the public parking area.

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There's also a an ADA accessible garage uh that's required by code uh for the for this number of buildings. >> So I do want to ask a question about that. We we have the two uh EV stations.

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Uh describe their two locations. >> The EV EV charger. So, all of the garages will be EV adaptable in the parking parking lot. >> EV uh parking in the parking lot as well. >> Oh, okay. I'll go ahead and make my

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point. I noted on the site plan that uh the two spots are uh adjacent to one another. One is a regular parking spot, one is a barrierfree parking spot. Are there ordinance guidelines that a barrier free parking spot must have an a

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a charging station if one provides barrier free parking? >> Yeah. Yes. >> Is that that's the state of New Jersey law now or what? Can you elucidate on that? >> I need to get anything sworn in though. >> Let's swear you all in

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um municipal experts. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony she'll give this evening will be the truth? >> I do. >> So sworn. Thank you. >> I'm sorry, I already forgot the qu Oh, uh whether ADA needs they have an EV. So, I apologize. There's a lot of

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traffic on the way here. I will confirm with the legislation, but I believe that yes, there is a requirement built into the legislation adopted by the state that requires a certain percentage of ADA spaces to have that EVS EVSE make ready hookup available. But I will

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confirm that while they're going on. But >> is there a threshold that of when that starts? >> Uh check. >> I think for multif family it's just automatic. For mix Yeah, I think for multi it's automatic. For pure commercial it might kick in at a certain

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point. Uh the regulations are slightly different for those types of developments but I will confirm other >> is that that relatively new now in the state of Indian? >> No no it's been there. >> I still remember seeing this situation. >> Yeah, it's been there. It's been there. There's been a lot of concernation about that piece of legislation. And actually Martina and I you're even caveting about

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it earlier today. Um and there's still a lot of interpretation about whether or not ADA and the EV counts to towards your ADA requirement, but uh no, it's been built in since the beginning, but I'm going to confirm while they're going on. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Oh, and it was just point out we

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have the same scenario at the at the school where where that is a shared space with ADA. I believe the threshold's 25 for commercial 25 spaces triggers it and as stated that a mixed use or residential or multif family is

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is required all the time >> since you pointed out that one of your garages is 88 um which one is it? >> I'll let the architect because you'll have the floor plans. I'll be able to better identify that >> was on the floor plan. Are any of the

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affordable housing units um are those people eligible to rent any of the parking garages? >> Yes. Yeah, they will be based on first come first serve availability. >> Is there a discounted rate? Because >> what we need to do is make sure that the

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total monies paid by the affordable qualified residents don't violate the maximum. So we we will make sure that they do not. >> And Curtis, to answer your previous question, for multiple dwelling applications,

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no matter how many are required, at least 5% need to be available and accessible for people with disabilities. So if the number is three required, 5% of that, you still need to round up and do an ADA space. Hey, >> I have a David, I have a question

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regarding what was just said. um maximum allowed for affordable housing um payment. In other words, the rent of the apartment plus the rent of the garage can't exceed a certain amount, right? >> Correct. >> Yes.

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>> Okay. >> So, chances are the affordable housing um family is not going to be able to rent that garage because they're probably going to go over. >> I I don't know that. >> I would have to take a look. I think that's actually built into the new

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legislation. Um, and probably codified in our ordinance. >> Let me take a look through. >> If they don't get a garage, I mean, that's having a garage. There's only nine of them, right? >> That's correct. >> It's a luxury. There's plenty of parking outside.

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>> Yeah. They would get an outside space. >> Yes. So, that was going to be actually a garage space like that would be sort of separate from the rent, right? That's an addition to >> Yeah, of course. It has to be. >> So, I still I don't know how you work

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that out. >> So, here's a question. If nobody leases the garages, is there still enough surface parking for the >> interesting? Yeah, it's almost two. It's only I'm sorry, ask the question again.

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>> Nobody leases the garages. Is there still enough surface parking available as per the ordinance? We're proposing the equivalent number of spaces that are required. So, no, if they were not leased, we would technically have a a

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parking deficiency on that portion of the site for for the residential use alone. Again, uh if you recall from the previous application uh two years ago, we actually received relief from this board for having an excess amount of parking on site because your ordinance

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requires you to match the requirement, right? So we we we actually have uh overall on the site more spaces than are required by the by the uses that are there. >> How many how many spaces around the

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apartment building again? 67. No, 50 something >> around the around the apartments is 67. Correct. >> 67. There's what 35 apartments. >> That's that's right. >> So it's almost two cars per apartment. >> It is. And that's that's includes break down the number of

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>> Does that include the nine garages? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, include the nine garage. >> First come, first serve. If you know you have two cars, you're going to have to get one garage and one outdoor spot. >> My point is if you don't, nobody's going to go for the garage. They're not going

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to go for that. >> Yeah, but there's still over one It's over one and a half cars per >> That's the question I I wanted to answer. But >> they they can legally park on the other side, right? which is also your problem. So they can just park on the other side and walk >> and which Mr. Shop is here. I don't want

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to steal his time, but there there becomes that shared parking scenario, right? Where the the daycare center isn't going to be used at nights and weekends when more cars from the apartments will be parked on on the site. >> The chances of every apartment in this building having two cars is

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>> really low. >> I I don't think can happen. >> And each unit will be assigned one space. So there will be at least one space available to every unit. >> Right. Okay. >> One more confusing aspect of the EV legislation is we're actually ascribed a

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bonus. So as some of the review memos indicated, we have >> more than enough spaces if you include those bonuses. >> Right. >> Got it. >> Where's the guest parking? >> That that number is included within the

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RSIS requirements for parking. So it includes get that number what and it's based off of the number of bedrooms. All right. So some units require 1.8 spaces, some require 2.4 spaces for garden apartments. When you calculate all that out, it comes you come up with a number.

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But inclusive in that number is a percentage for for guests. So >> and there'll be signs parked for the guests. Again, only 37 spaces will be designated as for the 35 units and all of the rest of the parking for their additional cars and guests.

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>> Now, we have to have you need a sign saying this is guest parking so the guests know where to >> where to park. >> No, it is there's assigned spots. >> It'll be process of elimination. The ones that are reserved will be marked reserved that are not reserved will be >> that was going to be my question. So, in

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terms of parking management, you will have reserved parking spaces for certain units. >> Yeah. >> We'll have at least one reserve. >> Okay. So, there's going to be a numbering system. So, anything that's not >> Okay. So, and it'll be marked reserved with um some kind of identification number or something.

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>> Okay. So, anything that doesn't not reserved is Yeah. >> either guest or a second car. >> Got an answer to the >> And I I I have a somewhat of an answer regarding the uh the garage question. Um it's a little ambiguous. I apologize for that. for rent restrictions for rental

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use or units. Um, no additional fees, operating costs or charges shall be added to the approved rent without the express written approval of the administrative agent. And that includes uh uh for developments with more than one and a half off street parking spaces per

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unit parking fees for one parking space per household. So, it's technically up to the administrative agent about whether or not that gets included in a rent or not for garage space. And that is this is based on the township's adopted affordable housing

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regulations which was based on the guidelines that were profered by DCA before DCA withdrew those that model ordinance the day after towns were required to do everything. So, >> hey David, quick. Um, was this property and these affordable units included in

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our calculation? Was this part of that, >> you know, number >> for I'm sorry, for our fourth round? >> No, for round three, round four. >> Oh, this is this is part of our fourth round plan. Yes, this Yeah, this is one of our we dealt with this, too. The only reason why I'm asking is because it was office and now it's been turned into

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housing and if it wasn't included then we're over the we're over our needed aotment. >> Nope. This is uh this is one of the components is discussed in our housing plan. This is included on page 88 89 and 90. We actually include a concept plan

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which largely mirrors what's here with some modifications. >> I know I want to make sure that we're not going over. So testimony has been received regarding that Woodstone residents would have access to uh amenities and recreation area of

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Woodmont. So I have a question about pedestrian safety at the intersection of Meadow Road and Canal Point Boulevard. Are there uh walk don't walk uh signals at the four paths across the intersection?

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>> There are both. And are they are can they be activated by the pedestrian >> the pedestrian push buttons or >> Yeah. That's my question. >> Yes, >> they can be. Okay. Thanks. Uh, additionally, we we provided a a sidewalk that wasn't a part of the

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original submission, but we since uh based off of uh information from professionals to provide a sidewalk and bench that directly relates them to that intersection, so they don't have to walk, you know, around the development in order to get get to the those amenities across. And uh to your point,

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we've their sidewalk connection, a crosswalk. You can see it's designated by white white hashes. Uh again, this is a signalized intersection, so there will be safe times for people to cross. They're not just not waiting for a time. They'll they'll have a they have

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stansions with the walk, don't walk signals on them. >> Yeah. >> And if you refer back to exhibit A1 real quickly, you'll see once you get across Canal Point Boulevard, you can continue north. There's subtle crosswalks that lead you to the the complexes amenities.

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>> Francis, which intersection we are studying to improve pedestrian safety? This one, right? Or further down. So, as far as other amenities go, unless any has any other questions. Okay. As far as other amenities go, again, I just

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spoke to the to the sidewalk. Uh we've located several benches throughout the site uh and uh a trash enclosure on the souththeast uh corner. You'll note in that area uh although it's on a frontage because we have three frontages, it's

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it's adequately landscaped and substantially landscaped on the street side, it's also within a solid wall uh masonry enclosure. Does does the masonry enclo enclosure mirror that of the building itself in

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terms of color or substance? >> Yes. Yes. And it' be similar to to the ones that you see ac across the way in that development if you if you're familiar with it. >> But I'm saying does it look like the building itself? >> Yes. And the build the building itself looks like the ones across the street

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and the enclosures will look like the building. it and you'll hear a lot more from that on that from the architect about how the aesthetics of this building mirrors or the development across the street. Again, we're providing a completely compliant site plan from the zoning ordinance

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perspective. Uh we are seeking this evening a few designs uh specifically from 20 I'm sorry 200-28D to pay relating to um the maximum permitted parking supply again and Mr.

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Pson spoke to this because we gained credits for the EV we're technically over and your ordinance requires us to have a design waiver relief for providing more parking than what is technically required. We're also seeking a design waiver for 229 V2 and 200-230

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to permit parking within a a front yard of a principal building. Again, this is a hardship on the Meadow Road and Farber road sides because this site is encumbered by three frontages. We have to put parking on a few of them. Again, this is similar to the previous uh

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proposal. We had parking in those frontages uh when the office was made uh I'm sorry when the building was proposed commercial. In fact, we also had parking along Canal Point Boulevard in that that particular proposal. So with this orientation, we're actually able to

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eliminate one of those waiver leaves >> and the Melbourne school also has same situation. >> That's correct. On the on the metal road style. And finally, uh, we're seeking a relief from 22.7D2, which requires a loading birth for a

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building with greater than 10,000 square ft of area. Uh, we're not anticipating any tractor trailers having to come to this 35 unit apartment building. uh as I said box trucks can maneuver the the the site efficiently and the uh organization

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uh will will schedule deliveries on non- peak hours so they have a better access to the site when people aren't necessarily park and they'll have active management for moveins and move outs as well so they can be scheduled.

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Okay, I spoke a little bit about the landscaping, but I'd like to get into a little bit more detail. Uh, we're proposing 51 shade trees, 89 evergreen, and 11 ornamental trees. Uh, there is that 25 foot buffer along the northern

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edge that's range elevation and adequacy planted as well. Um, and I note that the uh the landscape architecture review letter that we we received on June 15th notes that they're in agreement with all of the buffering

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and and tree requirements that we've provided. Uh again, you've provided walkways and sight furniture throughout addressing some of the concerns of your professionals, including that pedestrian uh connection that I spoke spoke about that connects

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to the immediately to the intersection. >> Can you comment about the uh trees along Canal Point Boulevard? It looks to me to the west there could be I don't know another two or three trees that aren't there. Was there a reason for that?

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Yeah. >> You're talking about right where your hand was right there. Yeah. >> Usually we would not provide street ties if there was an issue. Uh those issu >> it's sight sight lines if I have to guess in this case.

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>> I think it's down Point Boulevard to the right. Far Harbor Road having additional obstructions in that site triangle is likely to reach. >> Okay. I just wanted >> Did your traffic engineer comment on that? >> Okay.

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>> You can ask it just seems to me that's a very for that road and the road speed on that seems that would be a tremendous safe travel. It's And you've got the angle too of the roadway entering the

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looks like a sideline to me. >> You have trees right up there. You would see anything. >> Can I comment on that? >> Yeah. Uh, yes. Um, >> why don't you show that there's the maximum number of street trees along that?

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>> It's It seems like one is missing. After I saw the rendering tonight, I'm saying to myself, there might be one missing there. Well, at the same point, thank you. >> And and um the other the other question I had since you're talking about benches and stuff, I wonder do you have um

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icicle racks? >> We do. >> Uh and we meet the meet the requirement for both the Mal school and this particular I believe there's there's adequate space for four bikes being stored external to the building. and you'll hear some testimony regarding the

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architecture uh and potential places to store them inside as well. >> Okay. >> Uh then lighting that we're we're proposing five eggorn decorative fixtures consistent with the previous approval uh at a 17t mounting height

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again same as the previous approval. Uh we are seeking a design waiver for lighting 200-29G and 31K1 uh for illumination level. Uh the ordinance permits a or requires a 6 foot

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candle. If you recall from the the the previous hearing, we we received relief from that to provide 2.13 foot candles for the commercial space. uh because of the orientation of the site now and where grow lights were necessary. The average went up was a tick. So, it's now

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2.7 candles. Again, this is important in a residential because you'll have people come uh use because our people coming and going throughout all hours of the evening. And we think that it's it's important to have slightly elevated um

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lighting levels in in order to provide safety. Uh from a storm water management perspective, you again you can see better on exhibit A2 where the proposed infrastructure for the storm water has been proposed on the south southern

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side. Uh the new proposal is very close to the same impervious coverage that was previously approved. We did have to make a minor modification due to the routes of of the uh rainfall and the times of concentration. So that the weird within

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the outlet control structure, not to bore you with technical but had to to grow by half an inch and we had to lift the grape uh of the outlet control structure uh 2 in in order for it to continue to work effectively and meet all the guidelines of the NJB. Uh as you

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heard two years ago, the the site plan incorporates several BMPPS including uh subsurface infiltration basins. Uh the large basin that you see on the southern side is a combo basin. It's it's bio retention and infiltration. Uh and then

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there on the eastern and western sides of the proposed multif family building are vegetated swels. So runoff from those barking areas will go in and be treated and then piped to a basin where they'll be further treated uh and then ultimately infiltrated in back into the

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ground. This design as it did two years ago meets all the requirements for EMDs including quantity quality and groundwater recharge. >> You want to talk about uh snow removal? >> Yes. So, you'll note at the end of the

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the two drive aisles, there's no there's no landscape there. And that was purposely done. Uh and you'll know it's noted on the site plan as areas for snow snow to be piled during uh snowfall events.

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>> You'll you'll provide these snow companies to to do that. Who provides the snow removal? >> Yeah, the property. Yes, >> it it's actively managed across the street and they'll combine operations. >> Just one quick question. How do you again how do is it that yellow dotted

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line that's how you get in and out of there? >> I'm sorry the division get in and out of >> the development. >> So the I'm sorry the yellow dotted line was just differentiating between what's on the construction and the the new proposal. Uh but on the under that dotted on both the left and right side

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is a standard 24 foot wide drive aisle that has ingress and egress to the parking lots on the east and west side as well as as well as access on the southern side. >> If you're on Meadow Road, you you can make a left, let's say a left.

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>> No, I'm sorry. >> Only right? >> Only right. >> Yeah. So similar to the previous approval approval, there is only a right out movement. people know >> on the meadow road side. >> Okay. >> The Farber Road is a full access. Left in, left out, right in, right out

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>> and that hasn't changed since the original application. >> Right. >> So there is there a right in on that road or just the right? >> No, just the right out. >> Just the right in. >> Mhm. >> You'll note that it almost has a port that literally guides people into

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southbound metro. Okay. Um, lastly, utilities. Um, all the utilities again because part of the site is already under construction, the storm water detention is in, everything has been stubbed to this phase line. Uh,

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with the exception of the gas service which was always designated to connect directly out the fer. So, uh, the sanitary sewer will just need a lateral that'll connect into an existing manhole.

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That's okay. The, uh, the sanitary lateral will connect into an existing man. Uh, water again has been stubbed into the site and will have both fire and domestic service off of it uh, into the proposed building should you act

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favorably upon the application this evening. Uh the one nuance is because we've gone from commercial to now residential, the flows have been have risen significantly uh to the point where we're over the 8,000 uh gallon per

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day threshold and the propo this proposal will require uh a D permit for treatment works. Uh, additionally, it's New Jersey American water, so we'll have to get um adequate testing done and fire flow for for sprinkler things of that

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nature as well. Uh, so we we will be making those applications to uh the DP for treatment works as well as the Stony Brook Regional Sewer Authority and uh New Jersey America. >> Michael, we're just barely over the East House.

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>> We are. We're we're at uh 8,100 8,100 gallons per day where 8,000 is the threshold. So, we just you can cut a unit. >> Uh we're going to go ahead and obtain that uh free works approvals from the D.

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>> Has the sprinkler system been approved by the township? The sprinkler system, has that been approved the plans? >> Those documents haven't been released yet. We haven't seen an equivalence in the future. >> There was a comment in the fire memo

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about the sprinkler system which will comply. >> Yeah, there was there there was I just want to make sure that I don't know if it needs to be a condition but um we need to make sure those sprinkler systems go in go through the building. Michael, trash will be collected by a private baller.

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>> That's correct. Uh I did note where the trash was. Uh it is large enough. Two fulls size dumpsters uh will be collected by private polar. Uh if you're not aware, you can schedule those in on you know times that make sense. And should that you find that this

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particular building is generating more garbage than the normal they can actually schedule more because it is a private private hall. So you're having recycle and garbage. >> Recycle and garbage. Yes. >> Will you have trash cans on site in

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terms of like next to a bench or something? >> I would we were not anticipating any uh community trash. >> So all you're doing is right on the bench, not not a garbage can. Correct. End. >> So people are just going to take the

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garbage. I have no other questions. >> I I just had a quick question and I'll eventually I'll read Chief Lynch's report into the record a little bit later, but can you um just point where

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um where 24 foot emergency vehicle access with and um I guess there's not enough uh turnaround. >> Correct. There's no turnaround. Again, the fire fire official um approved

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circulation for the site, but again, fire fire equipment will enter Farber Road. >> We've done a turning movement that shows that they can turn north towards the the proposed >> they can't turn around. >> They can't turn around. They they could either >> pull if they're going to put next to the building, which which my dad's a

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lifetime fireman, they generally won't because you never want to be This is a fourstory unit, right? >> Right. So what what you the rule of thumb is you never want your fire truck as as far away as the building is tall. So if the building is 60 feet some odd feet tall, right? You want to be at

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least 60 feet away so that if it ever did collapse in a severe fire case that it wouldn't be on your apparatus. So it's unlikely that a fire truck will actually utilize any of the driveways immediately adjacent to the building. But we have been able to demonstrate that a fire truck can enter Fervor Road,

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head north, then head east uh along the driveway area, head south, and be able to exit in either direction. Uh we we run that truck movement. Uh and it it is adequate for that even though it's unlikely. Uh in my opinion, all fires will be fought from the three street

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frontages or maybe even the the common parking lot between the two the two buildings. Uh but it's very unlikely. >> Right. He he talks about 300 feet in length. Is he talking about the width of the building >> two? >> I don't have that letter in front of me.

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I apologize. So I'm assuming he's talking about he says 300 ft. >> Uh he said >> the dead end >> the dead end is only 70 ft. That's why I'm confused. >> Okay. Right. I guess you know >> he's saying 300. >> Right.

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>> I'm sorry. And he's talking about the width of the buildings there, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. Because it's less than 300, you'll find that, >> right? The the truck can pull in a little bit. >> Doesn't require turn around. The truck can pull in a little bit, squirt the

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hose, and back out. prayer. >> While you're on that >> um >> Yeah. >> review letter, >> you made a statement that there's a raised elevation buffer along the north side. >> That's correct. >> How high is that buffer?

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>> Yes, it's 3 feet roughly. >> He says here that um um >> where did I see it? >> Which letter are you referring to? Chief Lynch, >> you modified the landscape buffer along Canal Point Boulevard to provide low

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landscaping and emergency access. He discussed that with you at the TRC meeting. He's aware that there's a three-foot buffer along there. I mean, if you're going to use a firetruck to fight that fire on that side of the building, you have to get

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close enough to the building. >> Yeah. I mean, the comment sounds like >> from Mr. Lynch. >> Sorry. from Chief. >> Yeah, it sounds like they reduced it to three feet. >> Excuse me. >> Sounds like they reduced it to down to three feet.

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>> Well, he he testified that there's a raised elevation buffer >> and it's all planted as well. >> The chief reference references the low landscape >> comment. So, >> and he reaches a conclusion that he's

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>> he says low landscaping, but he's aware of the buffer. He seen the plan as well. >> Okay, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yeah. >> One of the things we may want to do is connect back with Chief Lynch. Chief Lynch, thank you. Um, with regard to that, because some of the trees are not

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going to be low landscaping, you're going to have some leeland cypress in there, which can grow to 20 feet tall. >> Cypress way above 20 feet. >> Yeah. Yeah. Of different types. Yes, >> boulevard. >> That is something that seems to be inconsistent. He may not have understood. What I was trying to do is

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get some burming out of the soil that's there and they did that. They added additional burming, but he may not have picked up on the fact that the landscaping is still going to be tall because of the graphics probably on the plant. So that's something we'll need to circle back. >> Okay. >> Make sure he's um are you okay with

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whatever you we Chief Lynch decides whether it's acceptable or not? >> Absolutely. So then that should be a condition that uh pending Chief Lynch's review of this landscape buffer area >> and some approval from the township.

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>> Yeah, work with professionals. Of course >> with the professionals. >> Absolutely. >> Mr. Chairman, I do have a comment too. So this is quasi mis. We issued a letter June 11. Um since we're talking about the turning templates for the fire truck, the third comment that we have,

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if you look at what the turning templates you submitted, you did show the vehicular path on the northeast and northwest corridor. I >> Yeah. So that >> the driveways >> that was an an error in the printing. That's the passenger vehicle that repeated itself through all of the

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different correct >> truck truck movements. The those exhibits were intended for the movement that I had spoken of along the southern side for those three those three other vehicles. The silhouette of the turnarounds is for passenger vehicles that we were demonstrating. >> That's exactly where I was confused for

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those exhibits, please. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> And then submit it to Tim Lynch, too. I mean, so for him to review it because those should go away from the template. >> Yes, that's fine. >> We'll do.

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Thank you. >> Okay. Any other questions for this uh witness? Anybody? >> Okay. Next up, please. I'd like to call Steven Tki, our project

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architect. Yeah. Mr. Chairman, I don't think there were questions from the public for uh first witness. >> What we do is we have all the witnesses testify because a lot of the questions that the public may have get answered in

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the testimony. So, we wait till the end. >> Got it. Thank you. Yep. Appreciate it. My name is Stephen Tiki. S T E P H E M T I E T K E. I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey and licenses and

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good stands. >> Not sure your your microphone's on. It's a little hard to hear. >> Is that better? >> Better. >> I you maybe just speak up a little bit. I >> just flat. Yep. >> Sorry. Very soft spoken.

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>> Thank you. >> My name is Should I start over? >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yes. >> My name is Stephen Tiki. St Pen T. I'm a licensed architect in the state of

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New Jersey and my license is in good standing. I hold a bachelor's degree from Drexel University in architecture. Um, I'm the director of multifamily projects at Sonnenfeld and Troia Architects in Homeell, New Jersey. Uh,

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and uh, I have been accepted as a witness for boards across the state, including this board previously. >> Okay. Accepted. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Stephen, can you run us through the architectural features of the proposed project? >> Sure. Uh, on the board, I'd like to

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start with sheet A-1.0, 0 which is the first sheet in your packet. Uh this sheet is dated August 1st, 2025 with a revision date of May 29th, 2026 and it's entitled first floor plan. Uh we are

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proposing a fourstory building designed in accordance with the R5F affordable housing district requirements. There are 35 dwelling units proposed, 90 nine of which are affordable units. Uh there are 17 one-bedroom units, one of which is

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affordable, 16 two-bedroom units, six of which are affordable, and two three-bedroom units, which are both affordable. >> Mr. Ti, we'll mark this A3, I think, right? >> Oh, this is actually part of the previous submitted package. >> Oh, okay.

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>> Um I do have two new exhibits, though, which I will get to. >> Okay, so we're not marking it. Well, it's I'm sorry. Yeah. I I don't think so because this is part of the original. >> Yes. Seventh film. >> If you consider it in the record if it was submitted um >> Oh, I see. Sure. Okay.

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>> Yes. Sheets one through six are part of the original. >> Two of the affordable units must be reserved for very low income uh households. Three of the affordable units must be reserved for lowincome households. and four of the affordable units may be

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reserved for moderate consults. This building is accessed through a central entry vestibule and two egress stair towers. Mailboxes for the residents are located off the vestibule and a package room is

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also available directly off the vestibule for uh Amazon deliveries, FedEx deliveries as well. One elevator and two stairs provide access to the upper floors. Uh as we discussed previously, there are nine

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private garages provided. Uh the provide the private garage spaces are available for lease by residents first serve basis. The handicap garage is this fourth garage from the left and it's just designed as a wider garage bay. So,

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it's it's designed so that it would accommodate a standard handicap parking space plus the side aisle that says uh all nine of the garage spaces will be made EV ready. In addition to the nine garage spaces,

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there are eight storage closets provided at this level which are available for lease by residents on a first come first- serve basis. And as we uh as Mr. Marinelli had mentioned uh those storage closets could serve as additional bike

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storage if somebody who rented one chose to store their bike inside the building. Um there is also one additional storage closet which will serve as building storage. And now flipping to sheet A-3.0 O, which

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is the sixth sheet in your packet. Uh, this sheet again is part of a previously submitted package. Uh, it's dated May 29th, 2026. And this sheet is entitled typical unit floor plans. Uh, here we

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have plans which are representative of a typical one-bedroom, two-bedroom, and threebedroom unit layout. Uh, and you'll see from these layouts that all of the units will include an open concept living and dining area, in-unit dedicated laundry, adaptable kitchens

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and bathrooms, meaning that they would be adapted for handicap use if somebody so needed. Um the dedicated HVAC unit which heats and fills each unit is located in a mechanical closet which is access to balcony or patio and that's a packaged

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unit so there's not an additional condenser associated with it. Um no additional condensers would be proposed for the units themselves. There may be a few condensing units that would be associated with the common area uh HVAC

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system and those would be located at grade and screened with landscaping is appropriate. Finally, gas and electric meters will also be located on the exterior of the building and screened with landscaping to the extent permitted by the utility. Do all your bedrooms in all your units

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have windows? >> Yes. Yes. Every every bedroom has a >> window. Yes. >> I wouldn't design a unit without >> and is now required as well with the affordable housing legislation that came

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out. All affordable bedrooms need to have access to a window. >> I think you can thank West Windsor for that in front of me, please. your plan of just looking at >> yes one bedroom >> has no window >> those are windows assoc the windows look

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out over the b so these are two windows right here I think >> the two squares up here >> yes >> oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I was okay >> do you have the drawings for units with the loft

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>> I have not worked those out yet I could describe They would be a very similar layout. Um, but in the one-bedroom unit, I would likely shift the bathroom over and do an L-shaped stair with access to the loft above. Uh, similarly, in the

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two-bedroom unit, I would probably modify the bathroom slightly and have a stair that goes up to the loft, which would overlook how to draft the >> We should have that though for approving walls. We should >> Yeah, there was a >> drawings on that. There was a comment

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that we would submit uh floor plans and we will do that final floor plans. >> Yeah, but the board would like to see the floor plans. I would I would assume. I mean, it's all part of the whole package. >> Well, hopefully his description is adequate and it could be a condition of approval.

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>> I would want to see those plans. I I'll tell you also an issue that we've had because we've had other apartments um come in with lots >> and how they're going to be used. They cannot be used as bedrooms. We put in conditions for that.

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>> Um, and a certain height when you when you go up like the walls not doesn't go straight up to the ceiling it, you know, it's more open. So that that's why it's very important, >> right? >> That we see those plans. >> You have essentially seen those plans on the development across the street. They

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exist in the same configuration. >> Yeah. But this is this is a separate application. I mean, I appreciate that, but it's just that I don't I I don't have it tonight. We should have that loft is very it's a very sensitive issue, >> right? Well,

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>> because there can't be a bedroom. What happens is people can use it as a bedroom. Then then instead of two or three, it becomes four bedrooms and and so forth. >> What I can tell you is that the walk units would be designed as what is called a mezzanine, which is design

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defined in the code as an area which is open to the space below. So they, as you're describing, they would have an opening to the area below. There would not be a door on it. So the stair would directly access the loft, no door, and then the loft would have opening or low

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wall that would overlook the living space that's adjacent. >> Would there be closets uh built in? >> Typically not. >> Are there windows? >> There may be windows. I I um because there are some places where I have opportunities for dormers. So there may

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be windows and I haven't quite >> a condition that the the number of bedrooms is as applied for would certainly be appropriate. >> Yeah, there's using certain legal language that we have used in the past to make sure that's not >> it doesn't have a door doesn't have four

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walls and it doesn't have a door. the pro the property manager can stipulate that there's not going to be any uh you know the loft cannot be used as a bedroom and if that's something that they stipulate uh in their lease then

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that you know it's enforcable >> that's exactly what we were going to propose it be in our leases >> okay I was going to say too I think some of the >> that's what we've done with other uh apartment buildings that have had lost >> and I think some of the conditions the board has done as Well, um, limiting the

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height of the head wall of the loft, >> uh, you usually think around three or four feet. >> I think it's 42 in. So, >> okay, 42 inches. I split three up, right? Three or four, >> right? So, open. >> Uh, no door as mentioned. Um, and no closets as well.

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>> Okay. It's a lock, but I think there needs to be a condition that says that that cannot be used as a bedroom. >> I would have everything in there that's not being utilized. Yeah, the the head wall, the door, the closet.

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I think we've typically I think we've included all of those. So, >> we have it as it can't be utilized as a bedroom and also can't be designed as a bedroom as well. So, I would approach it from both fronts. >> It's not going to be used as a bedroom. >> Yes.

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>> We know belts and suspenders. So now I've reached the part with two new exhibits. Uh so this first exhibit I would like to mark as A3. Uh it's dated June 17, 2026 and it's

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entitled View from Farber Road. What you're looking at in this exhibit is a view of the front of the And as you'll see if you're familiar with the site, the building has been designed to relate to and complement the existing Woodmont Wake the Across Canal

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Point Boulevard. This building will incorporate design elements from the Woodmont Way buildings, including horizontal siding, brick, cedar shaped single shingle accents, hip roofs, dormers, and decorative trim brackets and metal roof accents at Chev over

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building entrances. The building brick will match the brick that's used at the Woodmont Way uh neighborhood across the street. And the siding color will also be coordinated and consistent with the tan color that's used at Woodmont. Um this building is a four-story building

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and it's in keeping with the fourstory buildings that are across the street. Now >> question I only count eight garages. by >> I think yeah I think one is probably one

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door is probably obscured by the uh it's probably this one right here I think it's belongs >> we do I can go back to the plan if you'd like >> hiding >> uh the building height is approximately 56 feet and that's measured from average

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grade to the mean height of the roof and as we said previously the 60 foot uh height is maximum allowable. Um, the building will be designed to comply with all applicable UCCC and fire code requirements and a fire department connection shall be located on the

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southeast corner of the building in a location acceptable to the fire and emergency services which is roughly this side of the >> so dormers on the top. Is that lofts where the loft would go? >> That I think that's how it's going to

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end up. I think th those dormers will provide light into the loft if I can get it to you. >> Are the lofts with three bedrooms or two bedrooms? How how does that work? >> It's um they're only on the fourth floor and the fourth floor has uh exclusively one and two bedrooms. So none of the three-bedroom units would have

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>> How many units on the fourth floor? I'm counting 10. >> Yes, that's correct. This is sheet 8-153 for reference. This is the fourth floor plan dated August 1st, 2025. Uh yes, there are 10 units on the fourth floor,

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nine of which we anticipate will have loss. >> Okay. >> Finally, I have one more. This I would like to mark as exhibit A4. Uh and this is dated June 17, 2026 and it's entitled view from Canal Point

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Boulevard uh and Meadow Road. So what you're seeing in this rendering is a view from the intersection which shows the relationship between our new building, the existent Wood Bay uh neighborhood across the street and the

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Malurn School. And you'll see that uh there are similar design elements that connect both communities, including a consistency of brick, siding, and roof color. And the hip roof and warm color palette and traditional detail and design elements of the new building also

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complement the design elements of the mill. So in conclusion, uh we're proposing a building design which is consistent with the objectives of the R5F district. It appropriately relates to the surrounding development and we believe it satisfies

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the township design standards and will comply with all over. >> Is there a specific um place for the school buses to pick up the children? Is it out front of the the building or is it >> I do not know it's not that's a

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question. >> You can ask our traffic engineer. You're talking about the other part of the lot that's not part of this application? >> No. >> No. No. Not. I mean, no. >> School for school children in this building. You get So, where >> they're not going to know?

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>> Do they come right out front of the of the building or on the on one of these roads? >> We can ask our traffic engineer. >> No, that's that's for the school district transportation department. That's not a planning board issue. We don't control school bus rides. Uh school bus routes. Let the school board

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figure that out. Thank you, mayor. Okay, please continue. >> Thank you. >> Our last witness is David Shshire, our traffic engineer. >> Please give us your name and your business address, please. >> Dave Roshard, S R P S H I R E address

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277 Vers >> and share with us your educational and professional experience as well as any current lensures. I'm a professional engineer, professional planner in the state of New Jersey. Both licensed art and full course specializing in traffic

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engineering planning uh bachelor of science from the Virginia Tech and civil engineering master of science in civil engineering university of Arizona testifying for this board of the zone boards and over 200 pallets throughout the state of New Jersey.

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>> We ask that he be accepted as an expert in the area of traffic. >> Your your license are uh current. >> Yes. Okay, accepted. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. You submitted and prepared in connection with this application the traffic engineering assessment date July 24, 2025.

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>> That's correct. >> Can you lead us through your conclusions? >> Yeah, I'm going to briefly touch on two helpful. First thing we did was compare the trip generation of this 35 unit facility against what was originally approved. The proposal based on the

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Institute of Transportation Engineers for this type of residential use uh is going to generate 13 to 14 trips during the peak hour. Very minimal. When we compare that to the previous use as a commercial building and look at maybe what the worst case would be, we going

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to see a reduction up to 59 trips compared to the the approved use. So just from a trip generation standpoint, we're very confident that this will have less impact than what was originally proposed, which is a good thing. The

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second thing that we did was we actually went out and did traffic counts and we analyzed what the impact would be of these 13 to 14 trips from peak and we found that it won't change any levels of service at the uh two intersections along canal point. There won't be good

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levels of service at the site access points. So there is no issue with regard to the impact and it's basically based on the fact that it's an insignificant amount of traffic generated. Uh so that with all that uh certainly the existing

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roadway network is designed in accordance with the accepted standards that will be able to accommodate this traffic. The driveways the internal circulation aisles the park everything's been designed for safe and efficient movement within the site. There has been discussion with regard to parking. Uh 67

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parking spaces will be more than enough to accommodate the heat demands. When we look at the institute of transportation engineers parking generation manual for this type of use, it's much much lower than the RSIS would require and we found that in our own studies that we've done

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at these facilities. So 67 parts will be more than enough. Uh I think the other comment with your check was the site distance thing which we did not look at. have that condition with regard to taking a look at the site triangle in relationship to where the landscaping is

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in appropriate condition. >> So just based on what we did with our traffic study uh this is an insignificant amount of traffic the roadway network will easily accommodate and there will be no issues with regard to impacts related to this river

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and that's a brief summary. >> Thank you. Okay. Um, any anybody have questions for Okay. Thank you. Let's hear from our professionals. >> David, you want to start?

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Reverend plan This is what I feel like building from They're providing proper numbers of housings

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also requirements and you have requirements to meet all the needs of the requirements out anything the progress one

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signage previously received approval for two minor signs of the sun is not significial. for that. Otherwise,

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everything else >> I just have a question about the the zoning. Um so there's an intersection of B2 commercial and R5F residence residential district

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or is it there's a change? No, if you look at data uh between the skill, you're going to see a lot of >> right >> that is the condo line

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will be made the R5 this year follows that condo line. So the exception splits the block generally by avoid split zoning conditions. In this case split zoning condition

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actually makes sense because it does follow that other line. So the B2 sorry the B2 district still governs the val. >> So everything below that black line still located district. So remains of

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use. It's not a breeze. not for use. Everything above that is now that districts uh for that development. So the applicant did know at the beginning that this approval will replace the office development

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that makes sense and should there be some sort of unforeseen circumstance where for some reason they want office that would no longer be portion of that side. is entirely residential zone to the north of that black dot line.

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>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Anybody else? >> Okay, Francis, you're up. >> Good evening. Francis Guzik, township engineer prepared a report of June 11,

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2026. Um, going through that report, there were a number of checklist waiverss requested, none of which we had any objections or took exceptions to. Um,

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let's see for I I uh starting with open comments or questions that I had raised in comment 1.03 3 regarding the shared residential recreational facilities across the street. Uh I was questioning

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how that will be memorialized given the separate tax lots in the event one or both properties are conveyed to separate entities in the future. >> Yeah, I think you suggest that we work with the board attorney to to come up with the appropriate documentation.

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We're happy to do that. >> Okay. Yeah, I don't have any problem. I don't know. Yeah, we could we could have a deed restriction. Um certainly is part of the the deed for this for this development. Maybe also for the the other development

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you know if they'd be >> happy to work with you on that. Okay. On the right way to do that. >> Okay. Okay. Uh let's see. Moving to comment 2.04 4. Uh, regarding the vehicle turning diagram, not

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specifically the truck turning diagrams that have been discussed before, but the ones for the passenger vehicles, we noted that the vehicle selected was a little atypical in that it was a smaller uh, sport car, Mazda RX7, and we're

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requesting if it could be revised to something more conventional given the suburban environment. Yeah, we could show an additional uh just for the record, all of the drive aisles are 24 foot wide and the spaces are 9 by8. So this is standard layout of any parking

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lot that you've ever been in that utility vehicles use all the time. However, as a conditioning approval, we would provide an additional turning movement demonstrating >> what vehicle will you decide to use? You think >> a larger an SUV type vehicle like a an extended

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>> like an wagon vehicle >> suburban or something? >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah, I have no objection to that. That's fine. Okay. Uh, regarding comment 2.06 about the design waiverss requested for loading spaces and parking in the yards,

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I I've heard the testimony. I have no comments or objections to the requests given the um constraints of the property and the testimony provided. Comment 2.07 07 is a condition recommending revised title 39 requests

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for this use uh in addition to the Malpin school um for the overall property and the uh township traffic. Um comment 3.02 02 is uh requesting a

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condition for recording a new stormwater operation and maintenance manual for the changes to the site as described by Mr. Martinelli. Uh which will require a little bit of change to the operation and maintenance manual mostly to

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recognize the um technical design changes that were implemented for this project. for comment 4.01 is a condition recommending uh the requirement for the

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uh DP treatment works approval, Stony Brook Regional Sewage Authority approval and will also require uh a request to Township Council for sewer reservation and allocation uh before they're able to submit to both

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those prior entities. Um, just a question on the the site lighting uh for Mr. Martinelli. I know the plan notes use of photo cells. So, it's presumed that all the lighting will be dust to dawn and that none will be

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turned off uh at a certain time or dimmed at a certain time. They all remain fully lit. Okay. Okay. Um, comment 5.02 is regarding the waiver requested for

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the slight increase in the average illumination levels. For the reason indicated, the conversion of this to a residential property from commercial and given uh 24-hour occupation, I don't take any exception to a slightly

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increased lighting level average as indicated. And um section six, general comments. There are four uh additional conditions regarding construction details. uh engineers

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estimate for performance guarantee and inspection fee purposes, the requirement to submit hard copy and digital copy of all files upon final approval and the condition regarding other agency

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approvals including Mercer County Planning Board, Soil Conservation District, DNR Canal Commission, and the forementioned D treatment works approval. Um, that's all I have. I have no other comments based on the testimony I heard

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tonight. If the board has any questions for me, >> right? >> Any uh from the applicant? Uh, any issues with Franc's report? >> None. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody? >> So, Francis sprinkler systems are going

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in. Is that under under you? No, that's Chief Lynch and it's indicated clearly enough on the plans that he's aware of it and has verified it and as part of resolution compliance, he'll take a look at the final set of plans that'll be

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signed off on and again confirm that that's indicated clearly. >> It's in his report which I will read in the record in a little bit. >> Um, okay. Who wants to go next? Quazi.

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>> Thank you, Francis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is Quasi Massud with Auroran Associates, uh, traffic consultant for the township. We issued, uh, letter on June 11th. Again, um, this we had three comments in there. The

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third one, the turning templates, we already talked about it. Looking forward to receiving the revised version so that we can review and approve it. Excuse me. Uh the first comment that we had on the parking calculation I know in the table that you guys showed

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is 67 parking spaces uh suggest add line with the 10 EV credits showing 77. So and the second comment that's for the planning board we excuse me we prepared it fair share calculation memorandum

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back on July 23rd 2024 using the two land uses Marvin school as well as the medical office now one of the land uses has been changed so it's up to the board to decide whether or not we should go back and revise those that fair share

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calculation. So that's one of the things because the dollar number will be changed. >> Say that again. >> So the dollar number for the fair share calculation will be changed because it's a revised land use and with with the

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revised trip generation numbers. So it be I think this battery is gone. >> It' be a condition updating the fair share calculation based on >> Dave. You okay with >> Yeah.

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Okay. >> It shouldn't change. It's not going to change by much, right? >> Uh yeah, we we have to go back and check with >> Yeah, I know. I know. We have to do it, but I'm thinking that these are only 35 units. How much can it >> No, no, it's probably going to go down,

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>> right? >> Yeah. >> So, so we have to go back and check and revisit the numbers based on the model output files. >> Okay. But is that that's not a condition? Is that a condition of approval or just something we need to do? >> Um it could be a condition

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>> of approval or it could be condition of the resolution too. So >> Okay. I think it Yeah, >> we'll put it in just to keep track of it. >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Just keep track. It's not it's not something the applicant needs to do, but it's something we need to do. >> It's it's we we have to do it, not the applicant.

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>> Right. Okay. >> Right. Thank you. Y and nothing from >> anybody has any questions? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good evening.

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Uh Ed Snikis with Burgess Associates, professional landscape architect. Uh we had a report dated June 15, 2026. We had reviewed the landscape plan. While we're generally in agreement with the landscape plan, as was identified tonight, we should investigate whether

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or not a tree or two should be added along Canal Point Boulevard. In addition to that, I will be conferring with the chief with regard to the proposed landscaping along the buffer to make sure there's no conflicts there or it can be appropriately serviced in that regard. So, I I reserve final review of

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that based on Chief Lynch's uh comments. In addition to that, we looked at the walkways and uh proposed streetscape furniture. The walkways we felt were the most appropriate locations including there is actually a crosswalk and utilization of the common uh striped

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area for the handicap space for people and pedestrians to connect to the daycare center which seemed to be the most logical location. So there is that interior circulation to the daycare center. Uh in addition to that there's uh benches that are being proposed at the entrance as well as some of the

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interior sidewalks. But of note, and I'm not sure how the board handles this, is that there also identified benches along the public right ofway of Canal Point Boulevard. And I'm not sure if that's something that the governing body would have to approve because it's in the public right ofway. Um I'm not sure if

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there's history there as far as the town uh how it addresses that, but it just became apparent to me tonight. just on private property typically. Right. So in this instance, they're proposed three benches along Canal Point Boulevard. I'm not sure.

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>> No, that's the public right away you're saying. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So then who would approve that? Who would allow that? >> Typically the governing body would approve anything within their rightway. So you can make it subject to the governing body approving, okay, >> of those benches. Um and then we can go

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from there. Um, the benches are not by my take on the plan. I couldn't see where they're detailed, the type of benches that are being proposed. Is that something you can add maybe to the plan later on? I just wanted to confirm that tonight. Thank you. Looks like the applicants willing to do that.

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>> Add the benches to the plan and uh get approval from the governing body. >> Correct. Who is essentially your responsible for the maintenance of the who is essentially responsible for the maintenance of the in the public right of >> of the benches?

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>> Yeah. >> Typically the street trees are of the municipalities responsibility uh through a a shade tree aspect but yet the benches themselves that's why it's brought up is who's responsible for them. Is

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>> it metal or wood? Is that something the applicant's thought about yet? That's why I was asking for a detail. >> The applicant is indicating they are flexible and would ask if the township had a preference. >> Okay. >> We could certainly work with the professionals in terms of the appropriate type bench.

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>> We'll work with professionals to determine the material. >> Okay. >> Type of bench. >> And lastly, my last comment looks like they are preserving the trees along Meadow Road. So those trees are obviously being preserved. The only other addition I would ask and I just

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checked tonight is soil um erosion plan is to indicate the limit of clip root zones as much as possible for the trees. >> Do that. >> That's what I figured it would be worth. Thank you. >> Anybody? Yeah.

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>> No. Um anything anything else for professionals? No. Okay. Um, I'm going to just read quickly into the record Chief Lynch's report dated um, well, it's dated June 12th, but then we

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amended it. Hold on. There should be a newer version that I have the >> Oh, he Oh, I that's the same one. He just didn't change the date on it. >> It's this one. Yeah, it's all No, that's the old one.

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>> He just didn't He should have changed the date. So, I'm going to read into the me um June 12th, 2026 memorandum from Chief Lynch. It really This was amended on June 17th today.

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Actually, did he send it yesterday? The 16th. >> Today, >> he sent it today. >> Yeah, they saw it tonight. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So it's going to it's yeah has the 12th it's really the 17th. So um African is proposing an amendment to a

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previously approved site plan replacing singlestory commercial structure with a four uh five including loft space story wood frame 35 unit residential structure access. Regarding access, applicant has provided turning template showing

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adequate access and fire apparatus. During the review is noted submitted dur turning templates do not specifically depit uh depict a fire apparatus negotiating the deadend parking areas. However, the access drives appear to be

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appropriately scaled to provide the required 24 foot emergency vehicle access width and the dead end access ways do not exceed 300 ft in length. Therefore, a turnaround is not required by code. In response to comments raised during the review process, the applicant

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modified the landscape buffer along the canal point boulevard frontage to provide low landscaping and emergency access within 30 ft of the building. The applicant has also represented that the building will be protected throughout by a full automatic sprinkler system which

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further reduces the emergency vehicle access requirement. Based on the revisions made by the applicant to fire marshall's office believes there sufficient emergency vehicle access to serve the proposed development. Should the planning board or township traffic engineer desire additional confirmation?

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The applicant can provide a supplemental turning movement exhibit demonstrating apparatus maneuverability within the deadend parking areas. Fire hydrant numbering and placements are appropriate. Fire department connection has been added to the southoutheast

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corner of the building which is appropriate and acceptable location. In conclusion, applicant has addressed all concerns raised by the fire marshall's office. And I just want to note that the this is amended uh memorandum from Chief Lynch

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which addresses the turning ratio that was uh brought up in uh Mr. Gusk's report. Okay. Any other questions before I um have the public for comment? No. Okay. Um at this

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point, I'd like to turn over to the public. Have any comments on this application? Please step up to the microphone, state your name and address for the record. Okay, seeing none, um I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.

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>> So move, Mr. Chair. >> Second by Simon, second by the mayor, please. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Okay. >> Discuss. Any any questions? If memory serves me, when we have an

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application with affordable housing, uh there's usually a report from the affordable housing committee on it. And if you just want to note that there wasn't a for this application, it's that's fine with me. >> I don't recall.

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>> Affordable housing committee doesn't make a report on affordable housing projects. >> No. Yeah. The affordable housing committee report usually is not related to any application. It's just in general.

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>> Well, I mean I mean I remember when I was on sitting on it, we used to get applications and we used to say, oh, you know, I think we should recommend to the planning board that uh this could be modified or that could be modified.

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Maybe this is fine as is. I I think that was relevant when they were trying to come up with the numbers and where to put the affordable housing and what was going to be allocated land use and so on and so forth. But and David, please chime in if I'm wrong. But

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I think the fact that we've come up with our, you know, the number we need and the allocated land and the space needed to to build, I don't I don't think I I'm I'm thinking out loud now. I don't think it's relevant anymore.

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>> I mean, when I was on the committee again, they would basically go through the the plans and they took them apart and send a report. >> Well, if you look at the transmitt, it wasn't submitted to the affordable

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housing committee. They used to comment on closets and windows. They they always made >> right >> very explicit comments for us to read at a meeting. >> Oh, right. Okay. going going forward we will make sure that everything is forwarded to them. Uh we are in between land use managers so it could have just

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been quite frankly something lost in the shuffle. Um thankfully this is a smaller multif family development with only nine affordable units. Uh we did look at what the affordable housing committee would typically look at but my guess is that between the shuffle of everything it

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just got lost. So >> I I'll I'll just mention that I was surprised to see a threebedroom apartment in the affordable housing component of this thing. Usually they reserve those market rates. No, no, there's some requirement of three

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bedroomedroom, two bedroom, one certain percentage of three bedrooms, two bedrooms. >> The first time I've seen >> I just, you know, I just thought if the record shows that did not receive a affordable housing report that >> Okay. No, that's a good point. I didn't

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realize it was going to I didn't realize it was going to affordable housing committee and I >> I thought because you know they went through we had a we had didn't we have like one or two whole meetings on affordable housing and I figured >> this is more about design >> right design element and like make sure

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they're not you know they're distributed within the building as opposed to put in a dark corner is >> I'll make sure to work with Lisa uh and then whoever our future LG's manager will Um but thankfully as you just had mentioned

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this is a singular building so a lot of the details in terms of the affordable housing review does get when it's a larger project with multiple buildings and where those affordable units are located. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I mean there's nine nine out of 35. >> Yeah. >> I mean you can't you can't hide them

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anywhere, right? They're going to be distributed >> well they're going to be distributed throughout more more evenly. Not just like nine in a row. >> Exactly. Yes. >> Well, nine in the basement. >> That is Yeah, we we we reviewed the bedroom distribution as well as the

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floor distribution as well. Um and found everything satisfactory. There's nothing They're not isolated in the corner of this development. >> Yes. >> All nine in the basement, no windows. Right. >> I always make sure for the >> I'm joking. That's just New York

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sarcasm. Sorry. Okay. >> But definitely going forward for some of the other projects that are filtering in >> be going to the affordable housing committee >> and for review of location and distribution throughout the building.

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>> Will any of the affordable units have blocks or no? >> No. Oh, conditions. >> Sure. Do Do you want me to summarize now or the relief? >> So, yeah, please summarize. >> Sure. The board is considering an

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application for preliminary and final site plan approval for a uh residential multif family building with 35 units including nine affordable units, which is part of the township's fourth round housing plan. Um the board is considering um a request for four

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waivers, design waivers here. Um a a waiver from the loading dock requirement which would require one dock but none are being provided that was previously uh approved. A waiver from to exceed the parking space requirement due

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to the the structure of the bonus um parking spaces. a waiver from the requirement that no parking spaces are provided between the facade of the building and the street. Um parking is being provided on two sides. Um and from

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the lighting level um to exceed the foot handle requirement. Um again a waiver was previously approved. The applicant is slightly exceeding that prior approval. Um the applicant has indicated they are agreeing to the conditions identified by the township. um

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consultants and I'm going to run through those very quickly because I know we are we are kind of short on time. So I'll start with um Mr. Guzzix's memo um 1.02 O2 that complete floor plans are

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going to be provided. Um and in this vein the complete floor plans will include uh the lofts and that the um related condition is that the the applicant is agreeing that the lofts shall not be used as bedrooms or

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designed as bedrooms. um meaning that there won't be closets, there will be no um doors and that the um the head the what do you call it? The head wall will not exceed I think 42 in. It's what you

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said. Um uh >> also be memorialized in a lease too. >> Yeah, >> that can be in the condo. they agree to that provision that it's not to be used as a bedroom in parases.

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>> Um 1.03 is that um the applicant will work with the board attorney to ensure that the residents of this development will have access to the amenities of the development across um Canal Point Boulevard through u some sort of a deed

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um acknowledgement 2.04 4 is that the applicant will provide um um turning um turnaround movement will be demonstrated um to accommodate a

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full-sized SUV. Um there was a related condition which I'll get to. Maybe that was the same one. Um 2.07 07. Um, the applicant will provide an updated title 39 plan uh based on the proposed changes to the traffic control

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requirements. Uh, 3.02 a revised O andM manual um for this application. 4.01 01. Um, two conditions here that the applicant will

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obtain a treatment works approval from the DP and also the Stonybrook Regional Sewage um, authority and will seek um, the necessary sewage allocation from the township council. Um,

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jumping to 6.01 that the construction details will be subject to the review of the township engineer. Um 6.02 the two engineers estimates of construction costs will be provided um and that's going to include all of phase

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2 site improvements. 6.03 um the applicant will provide both hard copy and electronic format the site plans. Um 6.04 another standard condition is for the outside agency um approvals listed in in in Mr. Guzzik's

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memo. Um moving on to Mr. Massud's um memo. Just a couple of conditions here that and this is really a township condition that the fair share calculations will be um revised to reflect the new use. Um and again um

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paragraph three that um turning templates will be provided or revised to show um the garbage truck and the fire truck and the SU30 uh turning templates. Um

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in the Mr. Snickers's memo here we have um paragraph one I had a couple of notes on this that the um the applicant will work with um with Mr.

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the sneakers and with um Chief Lynch to um examine the buffering along Canal Point Boulevard to ensure that um the emergency safety requirements are met. Um the applicant will work with uh the

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township to determine the appropriate materials for street benches um along Canal Point Boulevard. Um we'll seek approval of the governing body for that. Um and there will be an additional condition for an additional pedestrian

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connection to be made from the front building entrance to the common sidewalk uh to the south. That was paragraph two also of that memo. Um, in Chief Lynch's memo, there's there was a little overlap here again um the um the condition about

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the the emergency access being sufficient with respect to the buffering along Canal Point Boulevard. Um the applicant will ensure that the building is fully sprinkled um in

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accordance with you know emergency um um code requirements and we I think address the um the man maneuverability of the deadend parking areas with the turning templates. >> Um I had a couple of additional items from my notes I'll just run through very

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quickly. Mr. Wolfen, you began with the condition that you and I discussed um with respect to the applicant's commitment to abandoning the the prior approval for phase 2 only and that was the the prior approval for the commercial uh commercial office use. Um

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um that is that will be effective upon issuance of permits um outside approvals. Um, and that's, by the way, a compliance condition of our fourth round settlement agreement. Um, so we've worked out some language for that. Um,

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I added here that the um the condo documents, if you could provide those to the board attorney, we usually review those for the affordable housing provisions and any storm water management maintenance requirements. That that would be appreciated. Um,

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Um there was a request that the parking spaces designated for the units will be marked that maybe in the plans already. Um and they'll be marked for that particular space. And I think all right the one the one other item I

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think that the applicant will examine and work with the township uh on the um intersection of um Farber Road and Canal Point Boulevard to see if another tree could be planted um unless that interferes with the site um site line

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distance there. the um the applicant will, let's let's put it this way, the board attorney will prepare the deed restrictions for the affordable housing um units and um um we'll we'll work to have those executed.

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That's that's it. >> That's it. >> Thank you. Any any uh further questions? Anybody? Yes. >> One last item with regard to the tree preservation along uh Meadow Road as far

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as the revising the uh soil erosion sediment control plan to show the limit of clearing will not impact those trees. >> Say again. >> They'll they'll revise the soil erosion sediment control plan to revise the limit of disturbance. >> Okay. >> Impact the existing trees.

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>> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Francis. where the fire hydrants are. They'll be marked on the curb like painted in yellow so that people know that they cannot park in front of the hydrant or signage or something because

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I know sometimes we get problems with developments. It's the holidays and all these people are visiting >> um and they're parking >> sometimes right next to right in front of the pie drink. >> Are you talking about within the community or outside the public streets?

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in the community >> where people are parking, you know, just applications. >> Correct. I think that's typically something that the Chief Lynch's office looks at if they're proposing new hydrants within the site as part of the

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project that they're marked and protected accordingly. But you aren't usually hygiens within like a development placed where it's usually they're not like like street like public parking where you can't park in front,

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>> right? Usually it's not curbside or right in front of the center of a parking stall where someone has no choice but to park there, >> right? It's usually in a corner or some other place where parking isn't there anyway. usual >> typically, but that could be certainly

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that fire hydrants shall be located subject to the approval of Chief Lynch, fire and emergency services. The hydrants here and there's no parking there. >> Yeah, go ahead. Problems in developments. >> Understood.

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>> Okay. >> Anything else? Anybody? Okay. Um, I'll entertain a motion to approve resol um P I'm sorry, application PB26-05

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Woodstone Residential Annex LLC with the conditions enumerated by Martina. >> So moved, Mr. Chair, >> second. >> Moved by Sim, second by Allen. Please call the role. >> Mr. Patel, >> yes. >> Mr. Sheel,

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>> yes. >> Mr. Pankov, >> yes. Miss Barie, >> yes. >> Miss Applegat, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Jvers, >> yes. >> Mayor Marte, >> yes. >> Vice Chairman Hoverberman, >> yes. >> Chairman Clark, >> yes. >> Thank you, Vice Chairman, board members,

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board of professionals. We appreciate your time and consideration. >> Thank you. >> Enjoy your summer. >> Okay. >> I'm standing up. Okay. Five. Um, we're taking five minute break.

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>> Recording in progress. >> Oh, he's right there. Simon's here. Okay, >> we're all good. >> June 17th, planning board meeting is back in session. >> Okay, next up

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is uh PB26-06 Clark Plaza signage waiver 217 Clarksville Road Block 1014. I >> gentlemen, my name is Rosalyn West

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attorney represent applicant who is also the owner of the property. Uh the owner's name is Clark Plaza LLC, but I'm referring to what you all know it's the Village Square Plaza. That's at 217 Clarkville Road, block 10 14. Um those

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properties in the B1 business district. Uh it's irregularly shaped lot with frontage on Clarksville Road improved the shopping center early with company parking landscaping. Uh we're here tonight because uh we'd like to get a waiver from the

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non-residential sign requirements. Uh your ordinance uh a 48 square foot sign notes on pipe. The uh existing sign which was approved back in 1993 is actually square feet and 12 and 1/2 ft

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tall. Uh we would like to propose a sign that is 126 square ft at 16.25 in tall or feet tall. Sorry about that. Uh the proposed sign uh it will identify the property address and we also have 14

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spaces for identification. It will be internally illuminated and it will be in the same location as the existing side. Um we will also include landscaping around the bottom of the um with uh appropriate plans. Uh no

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other changes of any kind are uh planned for the site and I have testimony uh this evening Kelly who is the property manager. Phil Smith from base sign

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contractor and David Shropshire who is a professional engineer. So without any further ado, I'd like to call my first witness, which is the applicant. Uh >> it's okay. We'll swear in at the same

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time. >> Just if you could just raise your right hand if you're whoever's testifying. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony shall give will be the truth? >> Thank you. And just give us your names again as you come up, please. And

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We'll make this >> probably >> and spell it. >> Sure. Kelly Stephano. D I S T E F A N O. And my last name is How long? H A L L A M

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>> and your affiliation >> on the property manager. >> Okay. How long? >> Approximately four years. >> And you're obviously familiar with the property application. >> Yes. >> What is the current

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retail shopping? >> Uh provide a more visible site identification sign that includes specific identification of the tenants at the center. 14. >> Sure. Yes. The tenant list. >> Okay. Um so uh your request here is for

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have you seen other retail that have tenants? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I did. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I did. >> Approximately in less.

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>> Okay. All right. So as I go through them will be a through eight. Uh so we'll start with the first one too. You take a look at that and just describe. >> Sure. This is a picture of the village

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square shopping center sign with um representation of the distance between the sign and the road. And that picture, this is a picture that I took just to show the distance between the road and

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the stores. Just to show how far back it is to be able to see from the road. Let me some >> picture. This is a picture that I took as I was stopped and driving away just to show um

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that you really cannot see the names of the tenants stores from the street right in front of the center. >> And the next picture, what is this? >> This is I may not say it right. Ry Mars

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um and that shopping center which is um approximately two miles from our shopping center and has um the option for 20 names on the red grade. So similar sizes scope to our shop.

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>> Next one, A6. >> Okay, >> this is a picture I took of another shopping center in the air area. I believe it's called Village Center and I believe it's 3.2 miles from our shopping center and is similar to what we're looking to do in terms of the directory.

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This is another picture of another shopping center that's 4.4 four miles from our shopping center again that just has a directory >> correct >> which is what we're looking >> the last one is approximately three miles from our shopping center which is

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McAffrey and again um similar amount of stores and a directory sign we do as well. Thanks Okay. And based on that decided to hire a sign. >> Yes. >> All right. Design similar to the other

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shop sign. >> Yes. >> Okay. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. And do you plan to install landscaping around? >> Yes. >> Okay. I was thinking of the RIF. Uh I believe

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that I at other shopping centers with directories I've seen used, but of course we're open to any recommendations from the board >> and we're happy to work with. Uh okay. And so I guess last but not least, why?

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>> The existing sign is very outdated. It only provides the address of the shopping center. Um, as I've shown, other centers in the town provide directory signs at the entrances of their property identifying who the tenants are. Um, and those just provide a greater visibility for um, the

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tenants. Uh, the closure also the closure of Clark has caused enormous hardship on all the tenants particularly due to the dramatic drop in the number of passing motorists. Most of the tenants have suffered um, up to 50% or more loss of business. Um,

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we as landlord are trying to do what we can to improve the center and the visibility and health attendance in any way that we can. We've invested approximately $300,000 in the center in the past 18 months with roofing, repair, but now on the sign application. We've reduced rent, passed on temporary

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property tax relief granted and our assisted our tenants um in applying for grants loans, guidance on advertisement and so on. Um this center has been a fixture in this um town for I think since 1993.

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>> Um and it's home to 14 small businesses that are just trying to survive and we're trying to do anything we can to support them and help them. >> I just have a question for you. It always struck me that for a shopping center of this size

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why the original was so small is you traditionally shopping center of this size really warrant something much larger than what's existing. How did that is that part of the ordinance or

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>> well I was here to hear you say that was actually slightly larved >> I did ask that and so many other people from the board as requested

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>> um as we are going to get any bigger sign. So that's why we're here today. >> Any other questions? >> One question. Thank you very much. The I think you might have mentioned this already, but the sign is not getting any closer to the street. Is that correct?

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>> That is correct. Oh, I'm sorry. Got it. >> Okay. >> Good evening, Philip Smith. >> Okay. P H I L I P S N I T H >> I'm the owner.

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>> And um the record this would be A9. You'll see an enlargement. It's actually slightly different than the um sign plan that was originally uh uh included in the package.

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We do not have a final page with the text. Um I also have copies of that sign. So if everyone wants to just >> Yes, I am. >> All right. And just very Describe the

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existing sign and your proposal. >> The existing sign is a doublesided uh alum internally illuminated sign cabinet. Um the sign is a 6 by 10 sign off the ground. Um we are going to construct a singular

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signated sign so they will not rust. And then the C also beated but just the letter everything else be and the address

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of that >> dimensions are 195. >> Yeah. But the actual sign area is 120 by 126 >> in. >> Okay. And with respect to the location

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of the sign as indicated, you explain where the post signist. >> Yes, we're going to remove the existing sign and the post that's closest to the roadway is um

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post in the same exact location. So, we're not going to sign any closer to the road. It will just be back a little bit towards the property but not >> what approximately edge

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of this of the sign >> I measured to the actual curve about 17t 6 in and that's the curve I don't know exactly that's it >> and you anticipate there will be plenty

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of Yes, we're not to serve any work that's landing ground right now that respect specific signs um can you just describe

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that a little bit? >> Yeah, each going to have their own separate case. They had a whole video that's going to be 16 by 57. Then what we like to do is come in about an inch and a half inch all the way around

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bringing the lettering a little bit to make it pleas. >> Yes, we want to keep the tenants locally. Yes. >> Just quick question. The on the the village square plaza, the old sign,

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right? Uh there there's a big bush here. Um and it's blocking part of the sign. So with the new sign, would would that landscaping come out so that people can easily see it? >> Yes.

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conditions appropriate annual uh plantings obviously to prevent any kind of sign but and >> I think it's nice that you put all the the tenants names on there people

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driving by can see what's there >> so so the total signage area where you have the tenants is like 105 square feet >> no it's LED. >> So it's a little over 100.

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>> It's a little over 100 square feet. >> So it's 105 square feet. >> Yeah. >> 106 by 10. >> Okay. Yes. 26. >> Okay. So, that'll get you to 126. What is the uh height from the grade to the

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bottom of the sign? >> We have 195. >> No. From the bottom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What's the height? What is the distance? That's >> too big.

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You're asking from the bottom, right? >> Yeah. From the bottom. >> 18 roughly 18. >> You take 195 minus 11.54 246. I just did my head. 18. >> Thank you. >> So, I'm sorry. What is it? >> 18. >> About 18 18 in 18.

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>> Okay. The U number 217, is that the same size as the existing size 217 or is it larger or smaller?

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>> Be a little bit >> 626. >> That's lit too at night. 217's lit. >> I'm sorry. >> Yes. >> Oh, yes. will be illuminated. >> Is it is it 24% like sunset to sunrise

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>> illumination? >> It's just >> Yeah, I just meant like does it go off at 11:00 or >> I mean usually would you like to keep it on till the last it leaves the >> store?

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Let's just stay on one. Um, this has popped up in other applications. So, we actually don't have, from what I've seen, any requirements about when illumination needs to be turned off. Um, I know the board has gone back and forth on this.

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Sometimes they like the address to be lit all the time. So, that way if there's ever a safety concern, um, you know, public safety, police and ambulances can find it quicker. So maybe the board wants to consider having the

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Village Square Plaza and 217 217 text lit and then just have the other signs off after the last ten is gone. >> But the these signs are usually lit all night >> or they could be lit. One or the other. And >> no I mean

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>> the light is not going to reach across the street. It's like internally >> 32 almost 60 70 ft. >> They're internally lit signs, right? They're not going to illuminate across the street. >> Mr. Chairman, if I can ask a question, with regard to the the illumination, do

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you know the amount of light that the uh illumination would be providing? >> Yeah, the lumen. >> A typical sign like this, the lumens would be between 40,000 to 100,000 lumens. So, in between there, there's going to be a white plastic covering the

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LED modules, right? >> So that will dim it. >> Okay. But yet that's more of a normal level illumination. It's not a very bright like we mentioned LED signs. Some of those can be very very bright. >> The amount of nits I think how they measure it sometimes are very high.

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>> So be nothing like that. >> Okay. >> And and it's also internally lit and it's not it's not it's not like it's a lamp that's projecting. >> Exactly. Right. >> Correct. But sometimes it can be overlaid, especially with LEDs now. So it sounds like they're not. >> But if the board does have concerns, you

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can always, should the board approve this application, build in as a condition of approval a look back provision. So 6 months after the sign is put up, if there's been complaints, uh, concerns from neighbors, revisit this and require some lighting

453
02:14:04.800 --> 02:14:21.199
to be reduced. The apartment's directly across the street or >> uh yeah essentially >> it's on an angle like >> you have some landscaping there across the sign. >> No, this sign will be perpendicular. The house is like houses are like this. The sign is perpendicular to the

454
02:14:21.199 --> 02:14:37.040
>> Yeah, the the sign is perpendicular to the road and then between Clarksville Road and then you have a landscape buffer um with that multif family development directly across from the sign as Yeah, that's what I haven't gone down this road in a while. Sorry.

455
02:14:37.040 --> 02:15:03.679
>> Actually, that's 25 and a half, not 18. I calculated >> 25body. >> All right. So, one of the concerns I have for athletes, I mean, is the actual height of it. Um, so the mayor clarified that it's 25 and

456
02:15:03.679 --> 02:15:19.760
a half ft to the base >> inches inches. I'm sorry. Sorry. Two and a half. >> Okay. So, it's two and a half ft. Um, can you reduce it to a foot and a half

457
02:15:19.760 --> 02:15:36.719
because we have other signs? Yeah, we have other signs where it's like only 15 in. >> This side sign that is accurate for this location. It's a good size. >> My question is is can it be reduced and

458
02:15:36.719 --> 02:16:01.040
still remain standing and people will still be able to see? I >> mean, >> no, he just means >> index. >> It's not GC. No, I would not want to throw up because

459
02:16:01.040 --> 02:16:16.079
if you start plants >> well again there are plants that won't grow up. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So I think >> that an effort should be made to reduce it to a certain degree in terms of

460
02:16:16.079 --> 02:16:40.559
height. Uh the other question I had is the top portion where it has village. Well actually the what is the height what is the dimension of each of the uh paths that you have there and that's the white area.

461
02:16:40.559 --> 02:16:58.000
>> Okay. But most signage in order for it to be visible you really need to have at least a seven inch sign. And so you have a lot of a lot of space there, don't you? >> Mo most signage on a road like this in order to be visible to the public has to

462
02:16:58.000 --> 02:17:16.960
be a minimum the letters have to be a minimum of seven in height >> depending on how far you have >> this is fairly close to the road. >> Right. Okay. So what I'm suggesting is there any possibility of reducing the

463
02:17:16.960 --> 02:17:36.240
height of those individual panels? If we do that, we are going to make the lettering. >> Well, you'd still be able to keep the the seven inch note. >> Okay. >> Why is that?

464
02:17:36.240 --> 02:17:51.840
Oh, you have to have all Okay, I see what you're saying. So each one is a very individual. >> It looks like the the cumin or I don't know how to pronounce that actually. >> See the >> that looks like it's seven inches with the the letter N right there. Right.

465
02:17:51.840 --> 02:18:14.399
>> Okay. >> I I like that the signage has lo the the lettering is like logo logoized, you know? So it's kind of like logo. So you Even going by to your point, >> yeah, >> it's kind of too small or you won't it's not visible.

466
02:18:14.399 --> 02:18:29.920
>> Okay, I agree. I agree. >> You could see like >> Kuma. Okay, maybe I didn't read the word Kuman, but I know I know what that logo looks like. Or Kapano, you know, you're coming >> you're coming through and you see you see the kind of logo and the lettering.

467
02:18:29.920 --> 02:18:45.599
Maybe you can't read it, but you recognize the picture. >> They mentioned 7 in height. So yes, >> it needs this space. >> Yes, it needs the space. >> Okay, >> good.

468
02:18:45.599 --> 02:19:00.880
>> So on this, this is a question for Kelly. >> Yeah. Yeah. One up to the mic, please. So um in the history of the shopping center 1993, um has it always been this quantity of tenants?

469
02:19:00.880 --> 02:19:16.880
>> Um there's Well, first forgive me because I was not the original manager. So what you know from what I understand originally it was building one opened and then building two and then building three. However, it's I believe they were all still built in within a few years of

470
02:19:16.880 --> 02:19:32.160
each other. So >> has there ever been a situation at Village Square where a larger tenant became two tenants? >> Um not to my knowledge but I don't want to say because I really am not sure. So

471
02:19:32.160 --> 02:19:48.800
Alan ha having thought that um I don't mind the the the the what the two to a 25 inch height. >> Okay. >> In the event that if a tenant space splits they have space to continue to list them.

472
02:19:48.800 --> 02:20:05.120
>> That's a great point. >> Um so I that's why you know the that that height issue is not that important to me. >> Okay. It's I think it's only 24 in taller than the previous sign, right? Is that right? 24 inches taller

473
02:20:05.120 --> 02:20:22.240
than the previous sign or >> Thank you. >> I think it's four >> feet was 12 and a half >> and this one's 16 and >> yeah, >> right. >> Just

474
02:20:22.240 --> 02:20:38.880
Okay. >> Did you have any more questions? No, that was the my question about you know the the tenants on the side. >> Thank you. >> 45 in >> 45 in. Yeah, this is 12 and six, right? So

475
02:20:38.880 --> 02:20:59.439
six to >> um in your uh picture here of >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh this thing proposed and you have the overlay there. you I believe you said that the um

476
02:20:59.439 --> 02:21:16.960
the sign closest to the road was going to be >> um used no everything has to be >> No I'm saying you the >> you said that the

477
02:21:16.960 --> 02:21:32.880
>> in your testimony the post >> Yes >> closes to the road on the existing sign was going to be where you're going to put the new sign. >> Correct. >> But if you look at this picture, it's kind of the opposite because it's the

478
02:21:32.880 --> 02:21:49.439
one that's closer to the uh buildings, not the road where the post is going to be the same. >> I agree. It looks like it does shower, but it's going to land exactly where the ex the existing sign is.

479
02:21:49.439 --> 02:22:04.479
>> I'm just Yeah. No, you're correct in saying that it's a little bit closer, but the way that that river goes, it's kind of like a moon shape >> and then where the arch

480
02:22:04.479 --> 02:22:22.760
on each side and we follow that line, you'll see the existing post right and that's the perfect spot to put the new post right in the same spot as the old >> I'm just, you know. >> Yeah. No, I I'm looking 100% I see

481
02:22:35.280 --> 02:23:21.200
traffic. >> Sure. Thank you. So my next is pretty approach as an expert. I guess we have to for the record, but

482
02:23:21.200 --> 02:23:42.080
we know >> uh Dave Shropshshire, professional engineer, professional planner in the state of New Jersey. It's shr i e 250 277 white horse bike pike, New Jersey. uh professional engineer, professional planner, uh specializing in

483
02:23:42.080 --> 02:24:11.399
traffic engineering and transportation planning. Uh I've testified before this board and over 200 throughout the state of New Jersey with regards to traffic engineering and transportation planning. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Correct.

484
02:24:14.240 --> 02:24:29.200
>> Yeah. Actually, I wanted to start with the conclusion and I typically don't do this, but I'm actually going to read it in the record because it was actually repeated uh by Aurora uh in their letter and I think it's germanine to what we're trying to get here for justification for

485
02:24:29.200 --> 02:24:44.880
the waiverss. Um, our conclusion is that the proposed Village Square Shopping Center signage will enhance traffic safety and that the granting of the waiver of variance for the proposed sign will not impact or impair the intent or purpose of the West Windsor zoning

486
02:24:44.880 --> 02:25:01.120
ordinance. The proposed sign will improve visibility while also remaining consistent with other ground mounted tenant signs in the area and the existing architecture. I I read that just because uh to lead up to this uh

487
02:25:01.120 --> 02:25:16.640
with regard to traffic engineering transportation plan, we're always looking for the safest way to get people into and out of sights. Uh for Parkville, uh and the speed that it is, the width that it is, there's actually

488
02:25:16.640 --> 02:25:34.000
significant roadside signage right in the area for the left turn lanes for no parking. Uh so there's actually competition for the sign itself in terms of visibility. Uh all of those things would say the existing sign itself uh

489
02:25:34.000 --> 02:25:48.720
could be improved upon. And one of the things that I think is critical to me and as shown in the pictures that were provided to the board is that the upper portion of the sign now says it's the

490
02:25:48.720 --> 02:26:06.080
village shopping center. I mean, it's it basically tells you and you're able to see that from a far enough distance so that you can make a decision to turn in the actual panels. And the reason that you see panels and all the signs and there's panels in the signs that are

491
02:26:06.080 --> 02:26:24.000
just adjacent to this site is to confirm that that particular tenant is within that center. So, it's basically a confirmation as you're driving, you're going to the right place, the right tenants there. I'm going to make the turn in. So, with all of that said, the

492
02:26:24.000 --> 02:26:40.479
new sign that's proposed, the appropriate sign size to have that uh decision site distance for the overall center and then to confirm that with the panels and I believe it's consistent to be a safer sign for safer and more

493
02:26:40.479 --> 02:26:56.000
efficient movement. Uh, in terms of the waiver and the proofs that are required, again, I apologize, but I'm going to read from the MLUL. uh purpose H is to encourage the location and design of transportation routes

494
02:26:56.000 --> 02:27:11.920
which will promote the free flow of traffic while discouraging location of such facilities and routes which will result in congestion or blight. Now I'm not suggesting that the existing sign results in congestion or blight. However, I believe that this sign will

495
02:27:11.920 --> 02:27:28.000
improve traffic safety by making it uh better for the decision site distance for the traveling public along Clarkville Road in order to accommodate number of tenants that are in the the existing site and overall it would improve safety. So that's I believe

496
02:27:28.000 --> 02:27:43.680
sufficient justification for the waiverss that were requesting for both size and height. Any questions for the witness? You like um Okay,

497
02:27:43.680 --> 02:28:02.640
we'll hear from our professionals. You have another witness or no? Okay, we'll hear from our professionals, David. >> Good evening, everybody. Again, this is David Novak for the record. We had a memo dated June 12th, 2026. I believe the applicant did address most

498
02:28:02.640 --> 02:28:19.680
of what was in there. Just two things to confirm. One that the existing and the proposed sign are out of that line of sight triangle there. >> Sorry about that. >> No, that's that's why they pay me the big buck. >> Did not cover that. But yeah, you can

499
02:28:19.680 --> 02:28:37.120
see by the the plan there's a site track that's wrong on here which uh is significantly set back off the roadway. I think it flies with the standards of the township. Uh typically for uh Markfield roadway

500
02:28:37.120 --> 02:28:53.840
uh we we looked at Ashtto which has a little bit more conservative sight triangles and in fact from the travel lane you're 15 ft back which is a little bit beyond where the existing stop bar is the left turn movement out and if you're in that position I was out there tonight as I was preparing for the

501
02:28:53.840 --> 02:29:10.479
hearing and looking uh for traffic in both directions. you have more than 500 ft of clear sight distance with the existing sign location. Uh I had asked uh Ace about that same question that you had with regard to where that post is going to be. It's going to be the exact

502
02:29:10.479 --> 02:29:27.359
same space. So there is more than sufficient safe site distance regarding the proposed site. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. And um while we do have our landscape architect here, um I would suggest that we come up with some sort of planner idea of what type of

503
02:29:27.359 --> 02:29:43.600
perennials or annuals could be planted underneath that sign to help. >> It won't. >> Yeah, we're happy to do it for you here, Jeff. >> Okay. So, condition will work the applicant will work with the landscape architect uh for the township to determine the types of plants,

504
02:29:43.600 --> 02:30:08.800
>> right? What's the material of the sign? >> Thanks. Thank you. And you know, you know, just just one question. Uh were were there any trees that were causing uh lack of sight distance of the sign

505
02:30:08.800 --> 02:30:29.200
itself? Any existing landscaping that was seen? You're not proposing any other removals. and others. Okay. >> Probably first picture um you could see >> the exhibits. Okay. >> Okay. Just wanted to make that clear.

506
02:30:29.200 --> 02:30:44.800
Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? >> Okay. Quasi, you're up. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is Quasi Massud with Oruran Associates traffic consultant. We issued a letter

507
02:30:44.800 --> 02:31:02.319
uh June 17 which is today. Uh previously is the same content. We issued another letter before but uh uh long story short the engineering review comments we reviewed the traffic analyze this letter dated March 23rd

508
02:31:02.319 --> 02:31:17.120
2026. It meets all the ASHTO and MUTC guidelines and we have no objections to this over request and we do not have any comments. >> Absolutely. >> Traffic engine comments. >> Yeah.

509
02:31:17.120 --> 02:31:33.359
>> So, so the additional height and width >> Yeah. >> will not affect traffic flow sight lines interfere with >> with the site distance. No. >> Okay. and it meets all the Astro and MTC

510
02:31:33.359 --> 02:31:47.840
guidelines that's been outlined in the traffic study. So, we have no further comments. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody? >> I have a question about the sign.

511
02:31:47.840 --> 02:32:10.640
>> The sign is it going to be one-sided or two-sided? question. >> Same on both sides, right? >> I'm just wanted to understand that. >> That's a great question. >> Anybody else? Go

512
02:32:10.640 --> 02:32:27.200
>> ahead. You have some questions? >> No. >> You know, one thing I should have explained too, and I apologize for this, is just in case this causes any confusion because we do have two different sign applications on tonight. Uh, one property is located in a redevelopment area. This one is located

513
02:32:27.200 --> 02:32:42.080
in one of our non-residential zoning districts. The way the township land use code is organized is that for those properties outside of the redevelopment areas, our signage regulations are located within the site

514
02:32:42.080 --> 02:32:59.359
plan details. Deviations from that section typically require a design waiver. For the redevelopment plans, those will require a variance. So just in case the board had any questions or was wondering why one would require a waiver and the other one would require a variance, it's due to where these

515
02:32:59.359 --> 02:33:18.800
regulations are placed within the land use code. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Um >> for the next application, it's it's a new sign, right? >> That would be a new sign as well. Yes. >> If it was a replacement, then I guess it would be a

516
02:33:18.800 --> 02:33:35.040
>> still would be a variance. um still would be a variance. Yeah, because and we'll get into that with the next application, but there's different zoning standards for when a sign is permitted and not permitted.

517
02:33:35.040 --> 02:33:55.200
Okay. Uh any other questions? Okay. And no other witnesses? >> No, no other witnesses. >> Okay. So, at this time, I'll open up to the public for public comment regarding this application. evidence. >> You could just raise your right hand.

518
02:33:55.200 --> 02:34:10.640
We're going to swear you in, which we do with it. Or do you swear or affirm that the testimony she'll give will be be the truth? >> Yeah. Hi. My name is >> Please tell us your name. Spell it and give us your address. >> My name is Maliot Club. I own the Gateway of India grocery store at

519
02:34:10.640 --> 02:34:26.479
Village Square. >> Please spell your last name please. Since our closure of this bridge, we lost more than 50% of the business and uh it's affecting a lot and I think this keeping a signage it helps the

520
02:34:26.479 --> 02:34:42.000
businesses a lot. I think in general it it gives the more visibility and easily noticeable by the you know customers and it improves the footprint if the people who visits the neighboring businesses they can be seen easily and

521
02:34:42.000 --> 02:34:57.600
and it also seen by the you know drive by and pass by customers easily if the sign board is there and and and that's the easy and best way way of you know advertising and for any businesses. So it's a more professional way of you know

522
02:34:57.600 --> 02:35:14.240
displaying the businesses and it creates the brand image. It's a good signage will create the brand image. >> So that's uh you know that's more important to having the signage. >> Yeah. My name is Morali at the Kotla.

523
02:35:14.240 --> 02:35:36.399
Again it's M U R A L I and P E D A K O T L A. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else? >> Thank Thanks. >> No, thank you. >> Okay. >> Hi, my name is Tim Steamström. I'm the

524
02:35:36.399 --> 02:35:53.200
owner of the Little Gym of West Windsor. >> Do you swear or affirm? Just raise your right hand, sir. Please. Do you swear affirm that the testimony she'll give will be the truth? >> Uh, yes. >> Thank you. Sorry. One more time, your name, please. Your name. One more time. >> Tim Steinstrup. Sen

525
02:35:53.200 --> 02:36:09.520
T R U P. I'm the owner of Little Gym West Windsor. >> Thank you. >> So, we're located just a few hundred yards from here. Um, I'm sure all of you probably walked by I I walk by here almost every day on my daily walk. Um,

526
02:36:09.520 --> 02:36:27.920
prior to the bridge going down, um, I had been requesting from the landlord that we have some kind of signage because I felt that there was almost no way for people to know that we were in this mall. So, we had no benefit of any

527
02:36:27.920 --> 02:36:44.240
kind of advertising or any kind of walkthrough traffic or drive by traffic that people would know that the little gym even exists in this mall unless they Google it. And it was very frustrating to me. And um I was kind of shocked to hear that the only sign that we would

528
02:36:44.240 --> 02:37:00.800
have would be this you know Clark's Village Plaza sign which was kind of doesn't help any of the tenants or the you know the small businesses in that mall. So I've been asking for this for a long time and I think it's absolutely vital for any mall to be able to at

529
02:37:00.800 --> 02:37:16.800
least say hey we have these businesses here. It's almost like you know mandatory. So, you know, it just seems like we're in the, you know, I don't even want to say it's from the 1990s. This is from the 1920s or something. We just can't even figure out who's in there. And I

530
02:37:16.800 --> 02:37:32.240
think it's necessary for the vitality of the mall when the bridge does reopen. For the time being, makes no difference because we don't have a bridge and nobody's going down the street anyway. But, um, you know, our business has already been decimated by this bridge

531
02:37:32.240 --> 02:37:47.520
closure. We're down, you know, we're down to we're barely surviving at this point. So, I, you know, I would just point out that this sign will at least help us when uh, you know, the bridge eventually does open. Thank you.

532
02:37:47.520 --> 02:38:18.880
>> Thank you. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony she'll give would be will be the truth? Thank you. What is your name, ma'am? >> My name is Carmen Gonzalez. G O N D A L E Z.

533
02:38:18.880 --> 02:38:36.000
>> Thank you. >> Um I'm from Kapuana Restaurante. We have proudly been a part of Village Square Plaza and the West Windsor community for the past 33 years. We are seeking assistance with obtaining the necessary

534
02:38:36.000 --> 02:38:53.120
permits to install a shopping center sign displaying the names of the businesses located in Village Square Plaza. Mrs. Stephano would like to move forward with placing the sign at the plaza as it would greatly improve the

535
02:38:53.120 --> 02:39:09.760
visibility for all the businesses and make it easier for residents and visitors to find us. To our knowledge, Village Square Plaza may be the only shopping center in West Windsor without a diretory sign

536
02:39:09.760 --> 02:39:28.160
identifying the businesses located here. We would greatly appreciate your support and consideration of this request. Thank you for your time and have a wonderful night. >> Thank you. >> Any any other

537
02:39:28.160 --> 02:39:45.760
members of the public wish to speak? Okay. Um I'll intend a motion to close the public hearing. >> So move Mr. Chairman >> by Simon. Second. >> Second. Second by Miss Jvers. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Okay.

538
02:39:45.760 --> 02:40:03.359
>> In the matter of PB26-06 Clark Plaza sign waiver 217, Clarksville Road, block 10, lot 14, I move that the West Windsor Planning Board approve the signage waiver with >> uh conditions as necessary.

539
02:40:03.359 --> 02:40:20.560
>> Okay. Motion by Curtis, second by Ja. Please call the role. >> Mr. Patel. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shaktel. >> Yes. >> Mr. Panco. >> Yes. >> Miss Bar. >> Yes. >> Miss Applegat. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Jvers.

540
02:40:20.560 --> 02:40:50.560
>> Yes. >> Mayor Marte. >> Yes. >> Vice Chairman Hobberman. >> Yes. >> Chairman Karp. >> Yes. >> Thank you all very much for your time. I really appreciate >> was one. And there's no traffic requirement on

541
02:40:50.560 --> 02:41:35.680
this >> really. didn't receive. >> No, no, not this applic. >> So, this is the second. It was here in front of the board before. This is the

542
02:41:35.680 --> 02:41:59.840
second hearing for them. Yeah. >> I don't know. >> See, that's interesting. I asked him why is the traffic for the first. >> Yeah. >> Did someone was someone here for the

543
02:41:59.840 --> 02:43:31.840
>> No, we never Well, it's not that. It's >> not that. >> Oh, yeah. Understood. You got in traffic. Let me ask David never got involved with this very >> you know what sponsors

544
02:43:31.840 --> 02:44:19.319
>> okay >> that's um >> oh yeah no in terms of doing Geopolitically in the past. >> This goes with actually Isn't this just replacing existing?

545
02:44:19.760 --> 02:44:39.479
>> Don't tell anyone. >> I have to stay awake somehow. >> That's the meeting you. The reason that the last one is because we had the markets. >> Okay. >> I was here for the market.

546
02:44:41.439 --> 02:44:58.160
>> But don't we read the traffic report on the new sign? >> No, we should. Um, >> well, there would be a traffic report on the building on the when the building went up. >> Oh, the building went up. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it was like >> So, okay. So, so the sign shouldn't

547
02:44:58.160 --> 02:45:19.319
matter. No, the only reason they did it when the building went up. So it's just the right >> no the original word is the significant from the

548
02:45:23.520 --> 02:46:01.680
>> last I will sign up because I haven't seen the interview. question comes up about condition. >> Yeah. And then they can submit this to our office >> and you can approve it or say hospital.

549
02:46:01.680 --> 02:46:37.200
>> Okay. Let's do that. You and me both. >> No, we'll do like we'll make if it comes up, we'll negative and it has to be reviewed by your office. >> And the building's built already. >> Okay. Have a good night. >> Thanks. Okay.

550
02:46:37.200 --> 02:46:52.880
>> Okay. >> Uh, next up on the agenda is um application PB26-03 Princeton Ascend Development LLC signed variance at 43 Princeton Heightstown Road.

551
02:46:52.880 --> 02:47:08.399
>> Good evening, members of the board. Uh, I'm representing the applicant. Uh we were here last month and we presented an application for accessory signage for the prim um advertising the building and also some of the tenants that are going that

552
02:47:08.399 --> 02:47:23.920
are within the shop and it's a mixeduse building so there's uh commercial portion of the building as well as some residents above the building and so um the sign would advertise both the fact that there's a residential building and also >> you go back a step and could you introduce yourself?

553
02:47:23.920 --> 02:47:40.720
>> Oh I'm sorry Augusta O'Neal. I'm with the law firm of Claire Harrison Harvey Bransburg representing the applicant. >> It's your first >> Augusta. August. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> So, when we were here last month, there were some uh suggested revisions to the

554
02:47:40.720 --> 02:47:56.880
signage. Um some concerns that came up and so we went back and met with your detention professionals in an effort to address some of the concerns. Um, we reduced the signage as a result of the conversations that we had. It went from 100 square

555
02:47:56.880 --> 02:48:12.000
feet down to 80 square feet. Um, I did provide signage plans at exhibit A of the exhibit packages, handed up. Um, as you can see, our signage professional put together a signage plan that shows

556
02:48:12.000 --> 02:48:29.680
in red what it previously looked like, the prior dimensions. Um, we had reduced the width of the sign from the last time that we were here to this evening. Um, it's my understanding that perhaps there was

557
02:48:29.680 --> 02:48:46.560
additional uh some additional feedback as far as whether or not the sign should be a little bit shorter. Um, Mr. Shackel presented me with a copy of um a suggested plan that showed that the

558
02:48:46.560 --> 02:49:05.120
um width would remain the same, but the height would get reduced. Let's mark that B1 for >> um we'd be amendable to this design. Uh but wanted to have that conversation with the board as far as if you p preferred that the dimensions be flipped

559
02:49:05.120 --> 02:49:24.880
so that this was now um 10 ft wide and 8 ft high or if you prefer the version that's in our exhibit package at tab A um which again still keeps the dimensions across

560
02:49:24.880 --> 02:49:43.040
at 8 ft and keeps it 10 foot But Mr. Sheel proposing essentially flips the um the signage and I did want to note the signage that we proposed in our exhibit package does have the landscaping that's required by your ordinance. So if we were to adopt

561
02:49:43.040 --> 02:50:00.479
different orientation of the signage, we would just ask that that for waiver from that landscaping requirement. So the three variances that we were requesting relate to the square footage of the sign. We're permitted 30 square feet. We're asking for variance to get 80 square feet. Um, we're asking for a

562
02:50:00.479 --> 02:50:16.560
variance to permit a sign where the property right ofway um is set back less than 50 ft. I'm sorry, the property is set back less than 50 feet from the right of way. Um, and we would also need a variance to um permit the height of

563
02:50:16.560 --> 02:50:34.880
the signage. We're only permitted six feet in the zoning district and we'd be looking for eight feet or 10 feet depending on the orientation that the board prefers. I was just going to say so my suggestion was 8.75 ft in height and for the actual

564
02:50:34.880 --> 02:50:50.880
size of the copy area it was 80 square ft which is what you had proposed. So the only difference between yours and mine is that you're going up higher like 12 ft. >> Correct. I mean, I think it's important to keep

565
02:50:50.880 --> 02:51:06.000
it at 8.75 ft. And if you were to do the 10 foot width, I think you were talking about >> So, you're at 8.75 ft high and then 10 ft across. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if you if you want to do it that

566
02:51:06.000 --> 02:51:22.160
way or you want to do 8.75 ft uh and 10 foot Well, it's the same. It'll be the same. >> Yes. >> That I think that makes a lot of sense in because of the fact

567
02:51:22.160 --> 02:51:39.200
that you have you know when we did the we reviewed the plans for the adjacent building and this building we took particular note of a lot of the festration on the buildings like this uh

568
02:51:39.200 --> 02:51:56.640
I guess there's a pergola next door um which was a really nice feature but when you the sign that at 12 ft the pragola is at 12 ft. You're basically going to be blocking that side. So I

569
02:51:56.640 --> 02:52:19.520
think for a lot of reasons this I mean what I'm suggesting would be more preferable at least to me and not sure about it all the other board members but I think the height is the key the key thing here. >> So It's it is less clutter.

570
02:52:19.520 --> 02:52:35.600
Um, and it's interesting, Curtis, you were talking about the uh the sign at 50. >> Yeah, I said you have a photograph. >> I have a photograph of it. It's actually 12 ft in height. >> What? 12 by what? >> Four. >> 12 by 4. So, it's 50 square feet. >> Yeah.

571
02:52:35.600 --> 02:52:52.240
>> It's right here. The second >> This is across the street uh from uh the site >> a little pretty much across the street. It is uh the building that that sign is accessory to is a much older building. >> I'm sorry. >> The sign that that this um the building

572
02:52:52.240 --> 02:53:07.600
that the sign is accessory to an older building. So >> Oh, yeah. It's an older building. I don't know how it was approved. How that sign is approved. >> Um but it's just for me it's visual plotter. It doesn't really add anything. At least with your side or at least I'm

573
02:53:07.600 --> 02:53:24.479
proposing it, you'll be able to see the tenant letters because you have plenty of room to do that. Actually, I'm showing seven. You have room for eight perhaps or you could actually bury it depending upon

574
02:53:24.479 --> 02:53:40.560
>> the need of the tenant. >> Did you get a copy of this? Yes, >> I have a copy of it. I got I got a copy before the hearing started. Um, we'd be amendable to the signage. We, you know, my client is going to testify tonight, but the lack of signage at this building

575
02:53:40.560 --> 02:53:56.560
has been a concern. There's zero signage. There's no monument sign on Nightstown Road. And so, there's a number of tenants have complained that, you know, it well, it's obviously difficult for anyone police and fire to identify the building because there's no sign in front of the

576
02:53:56.560 --> 02:54:11.920
building showing the address. That was another comment that we received last month as far as providing a building number. So, with this um updated signage package, we have done that. It's both on the um black and white copy B1 and it's also in the the updated version of the

577
02:54:11.920 --> 02:54:29.040
signage plan that we put together. >> You you just a point you like you may want to consider putting the 43 at the top also or you know next if it was just a thought >> next to the reference actually >> because that's where my eyes would

578
02:54:29.040 --> 02:54:45.279
that's where my eyes would go. I pass by this place all the time. >> See, I did this in a rush. >> No, I I No, even >> I'm not I'm not pointing out to you. Their their um rendition also is 43. >> It looks like they actually might have a

579
02:54:45.279 --> 02:55:01.000
43 there. So, >> there's two 43s on >> There's one on the side, right? >> There's one on the side and there's one on the bottom. Um >> yeah, I was thinking like I was thinking along the Yeah, I saw that. I was thinking next to Prince the word Princeton.

580
02:55:01.680 --> 02:55:18.479
That's where I was thinking of a 43 at the along the the you know next to Princeton. A 43 there >> as opposed to anywhere else. >> Uh you could put in both places. Yeah. You know >> more the marrier, you know, because then people can know it's there

581
02:55:18.479 --> 02:55:34.319
>> because when I'm when I have your GPS and it said, you know, I'm putting an address, sometimes it's hard to find the address. >> Yeah. >> And it tells you turn and then I always turn into the wrong driveway. Yeah. And you could easily fit 43. >> Yeah. Next to the N or something or

582
02:55:34.319 --> 02:55:50.640
before the P >> bottom is gonna I think be a problem. >> Oh, sorry. >> But 43 at the bottom because of any kind of landscaping. >> Yeah. >> That's why we were saying cut it right off. We were asking for a waiver from the landscaping requirement because I

583
02:55:50.640 --> 02:56:06.720
know that the ordinance says we have to have two feet in either direction at the bottom of the sign. But if we're going to make it shorter, we would ask for a waiver from that landscape. >> The other thing regarding why I like 43 at the top is if it snows, >> the 43 is going to get covered up.

584
02:56:06.720 --> 02:56:22.080
>> Good point. >> So just a thought. your design >> she's saying from fire and police if they are going they want to see that 43 >> and if it's on top it's more visible like if a fire engine is approaching you

585
02:56:22.080 --> 02:56:42.080
they want it to be seen very easily >> and also like I said no 43 is going to come up on the bottom and then you're back to like not knowing it's there >> how large are those letters the tenants. >> Say that one more time. >> How large are the letters for the

586
02:56:42.080 --> 02:56:58.000
>> How large? So, in the signage package, I think it's at page three, those tenant signs are currently four and a half um inches. >> The lettering small we just did we just talking about seven in. >> Yeah, seven inches on the other.

587
02:56:58.000 --> 02:57:14.560
>> So, if we cut this sign down, it's going to be difficult to make the letters larger. In fact, I could swear in my witness. If you have uh do you have one or two witnesses just >> uh >> two let's swear you both in if if you could

588
02:57:14.560 --> 02:57:31.399
just in case if you um raise your right hands if you um do you swear or affirm that the testimony you shall give will be the truth. Thank you so sworn. And just give us your names as you come up please. >> My name is Howard Chen. CI

589
02:57:32.800 --> 02:57:55.520
on the formal side. >> Thank you. There was a suggestion suggestion that the letters for the may you explain why. So when you so depending on how what

590
02:57:55.520 --> 02:58:13.200
tendants names if you got a shorter name you can have a higher uh copy of a higher letter but if if there's more if it's a bigger name it gets stretched out and it gets smaller. Now we have four and a half there we could make it we

591
02:58:13.200 --> 02:58:29.359
could make it set wouldn't be a problem depending on how wide the name is. So we use 4 and a half in proportion to the sign being at 10 ft. >> If we go down to 8 ft small,

592
02:58:29.359 --> 02:58:44.560
>> we could go we could maintain that probably if you're going to stir it from side to side, but if there's a longer name, it's small. I don't understand why the the Princeton Ascend

593
02:58:44.560 --> 02:58:59.840
has to be so big because if people are coming by, it's a very very busy area as you know at least into the station and there's development all over here, right? So people are zooming by and they got to catch the name of of the tennis right away. You want them to, right? You

594
02:58:59.840 --> 02:59:16.160
don't want them to miss it because turning around isn't isn't easy. >> Nope. >> Right. >> So this I believe and because this is a residential building that has these portion units underneath. We do feel it's important to make sure that that

595
02:59:16.160 --> 02:59:32.399
name in the building has a presence on the side as well. >> It's just the size of it. I mean >> so I if you looked at at what I called you Alan >> yes >> had designed that will be smaller. I know you use that picture, but it's

596
02:59:32.399 --> 02:59:48.560
going to get smaller because we're going with side by side instead of one on top of the other. So, Princ will become smaller just by that design. >> I see

597
02:59:48.560 --> 03:00:11.200
I'm seeing in the exhibit sheet three, I think it was referenced, um the Princeton portion has a height of 18 in. In B1, it's reduced down to 9 in. >> Great. >> And it's easy enough to just put the

598
03:00:11.200 --> 03:00:26.720
number 43 right next to that end. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Whatever they want. I mean, I put one on the FA on the face because that's usually where they do it on top and then of course two on the bottom. But I can

599
03:00:26.720 --> 03:00:43.359
if you want on there right next to I could I could fit something in. >> Yeah, I think what Mike had and indicated that that was a good idea. >> My eyes go to the top and also with snow it'll it'll be back to like not having

600
03:00:43.359 --> 03:00:59.520
an address visible when it snows. >> And yeah, the address is on the bottom and >> the bottom is going to be covered by um I don't know how many inches of snow will cover this. It doesn't >> like six inches.

601
03:00:59.520 --> 03:01:14.880
>> So just just to clarify the one in the middle of the top is >> you mean on you mean on the >> the face? Yeah. >> Wer like the side. >> So I think what you're suggesting is that the number >> Yeah. Some Yeah. And either could be

602
03:01:14.880 --> 03:01:29.920
left or right. Just >> probably right on the face. >> Yeah. >> And this is a two-sided sign, right? >> So it'll be on both sides. Right. >> You're traveling down there and Oh, there's 43. Okay. Turn into the driveway. >> Yeah. I can I mean

603
03:01:29.920 --> 03:01:46.319
>> I mean I don't do it for me. I'm trying to suggest to do to do for you to because I think it'll help. But you know, again, it's one person's opinion. >> Well, if you have it on the side like that, you're not going to see it until you pass it. >> Then it's too late.

604
03:01:46.319 --> 03:02:04.080
>> You see it when you pass it. You have to come around. you be fine with that. >> It's it's just I'm thinking out loud on your behalf. >> So, the width of the sign was uh one of the concerns was brought up at the last

605
03:02:04.080 --> 03:02:19.920
meeting, something that we went back and made some changes to. I just wanted to go over some other changes that were made in response to the board's comments. Um we did reduce the size of the letters as Mr. Ch alluded to. We changed the

606
03:02:19.920 --> 03:02:37.120
orientation of the ascend lettering and that was important. >> Can you clarify that? Side A has it going from bottom to top. Side B has it going from top to bottom. It's a very visible change from one side to another.

607
03:02:37.120 --> 03:02:53.680
Can you explain your reasoning on this? >> Well, so on a two-sided sign, that's pretty standard where you have going up and coming down. um they try and keep the letter facing the same way as on both sides.

608
03:02:53.680 --> 03:03:09.720
That's why it's done. >> I just think in terms of of consistency, image consistency, sign face to sign face, that it should be consistent and go from bottom to top ascend like the word.

609
03:03:16.960 --> 03:03:39.600
Yeah. >> Do you guys have any thoughts on that? >> I think I think what Curtis is saying makes makes sense. >> This makes more sense to me. So if you did you said from the bottom >> I I

610
03:03:39.600 --> 03:03:56.319
>> bottom top on both sides makes what do you think Michael? >> My my thought is this is my thought I read left to right so like here Princeton ascend but here it looks like ascend Princeton

611
03:03:56.319 --> 03:04:10.720
you know it because I'm reading left to right. Well, the point of that was that Curtis thought it should ascend because you were going up. >> Oh, okay. The meaning of the word. >> I would move the tenants over and put the send on the right hand side just

612
03:04:10.720 --> 03:04:27.840
like on the other side of the sign. >> I kind of agree with Mike's philosophy on the >> tendency this over here with the tendency. >> That's fine. >> I don't know. That's my eyes are going

613
03:04:27.840 --> 03:04:44.560
in that direction. Princeton Princ means >> I understand what the word ascend means. >> But I I'm trying to find a place, you know, on the street. >> Curtis was when you're talking about as he wanted to go up.

614
03:04:44.560 --> 03:05:00.880
>> I'm looking at Princess. >> I I would say any which way you organize the sign, you want those tenant panels to be closest to the street. >> Okay, good point. That's normally that's what makes sense. >> Good point.

615
03:05:00.880 --> 03:05:35.040
>> No, that's a good point. >> Good point. >> Why would you put like >> Okay. >> Um, so I did want to also get testimony for uh property owners about building. say that.

616
03:05:35.040 --> 03:05:49.200
>> So, does the board feel strong in one way or the other as far as whether they prefer the version that we just presented tonight or the version that's in our exhibit packages as far as the signage size and orientation?

617
03:05:49.200 --> 03:06:11.960
Everyone knows versions. Okay. Okay. without the 43. >> No, they're gonna add the 43. >> They'll add the 43. >> It could be on both places. I don't care. I think >> Oh, yes.

618
03:06:29.200 --> 03:07:04.560
You feel very >> I don't know. Good question. Linda is saying why is it like a >> yes and like that >> why isn't why why is he turning to see

619
03:07:04.560 --> 03:07:38.200
why >> it's not that >> I suppose but this kind of makes more sense on this one. That's why it's on this one. This makes sense. this one.

620
03:07:47.359 --> 03:08:05.120
>> Unless you do this. >> Yeah. >> I'm just see >> your corporate logo >> like ascent has to be like vertical like that. Instead of just saying Princeton ascend, it has to be Yeah.

621
03:08:05.120 --> 03:08:22.240
>> You mean have it on one line on the top? >> So if you look at the drawing, that's 9 in. If I do that, those letters will be tiny if I spread them out like this. >> What about one on top of the other? >> So it's 9 in. Now we're talking about a

622
03:08:22.240 --> 03:08:38.000
the main lane. >> Are you familiar with halo lit? Halo lighting. So the halo lighting, if I make the sign that big, it'll just be a block. So yeah, back you don't want to back >> guess. Was it a height? Maybe >> the last.

623
03:08:38.000 --> 03:08:53.120
>> Did he have back lighting? I didn't see >> a height >> on on the on the top. >> Um, so you can imagine now if I take that letter and make it smaller, you're just going to see a you won't get a halo anymore.

624
03:08:53.120 --> 03:09:12.080
>> It's turned. I I think what I think what what Linda is saying is that like the S is on the side instead of like regular top to bottom like like a S. >> Oh, so you want the S to be like this

625
03:09:12.080 --> 03:09:26.960
>> like right read it straight down. >> Is that what you're saying? >> That's what she's saying. >> She didn't know why it was like like >> she doesn't know why it's on it side. >> So So in this as far as design that's generally what people like. I'm not saying everyone likes it,

626
03:09:26.960 --> 03:09:41.920
>> but that's really how we do most of the science. >> I guess when you draw >> on side block letters reading horizontally, correct? >> So you could have it the way I reading that horizontally s horizontally. I

627
03:09:41.920 --> 03:09:57.920
guess you could do that now. That's going to be longer >> in a sense. >> I don't know. I don't know the design implications. So, >> but you read it that way then because it'll look like a sand. It'll look like something >> if I'm going out driving and I'm looking

628
03:09:57.920 --> 03:10:13.279
out the window. I'm looking to the side and it kind of it kind of probably comes back at me properly even though the S and the letters are sideways. >> Think it's >> I don't know. There has to be a track that comes through.

629
03:10:13.279 --> 03:10:28.560
>> Yeah, there is for sure. >> Right. Um, so we're used to reading left to right. So if the letters are oriented that way, but they're stacked one on top of the other, you won't really >> Yeah,

630
03:10:28.560 --> 03:10:45.760
>> I don't know. I'm I'm thinking that if I'm driving and I'm glancing out the window, it probably >> You don't want to turn your head. >> No, I'm not turning my head, but I'm glancing like that. It it try it comes back readable.

631
03:10:45.760 --> 03:11:11.840
>> Your entrap stands out at you, but the sand is difficult to distinct. >> They go down on that side. >> Same concept. >> This is six. That's >> the W's on its side. The N's on its side.

632
03:11:19.439 --> 03:11:45.840
But I'm just saying the way the letter is you will see. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um let's let's move along. Please. >> Um, is there any other questions? Dave,

633
03:11:45.840 --> 03:12:03.520
you have any input? >> No, I I don't think there's going to be a single way to design the direction of the lettering. Um, that's going to really satisfy everybody, right? Because it's also going to look different as you're traveling northbound versus southbound. So, on one side it might

634
03:12:03.520 --> 03:12:18.560
look like ascent comes first and the other side it might look like the Princeton comes first. I would say general parameters would be you want these tenant signs to be closest to the roadway. >> Um, and I think from what I'm hearing from

635
03:12:18.560 --> 03:12:34.880
the board, we prefer this design with the 8.75 ft height and the 120 foot width. >> Moving the right >> inches. Did I say did I say feet? >> Anything you want?

636
03:12:34.880 --> 03:12:51.880
Now, now the third per third fourth person to do that tonight. Uh, let me rephrase that. 120 inches wide. Uh, moving the 43 up top. I would generally just keep it like that. And then, um,

637
03:12:52.399 --> 03:13:08.080
>> yeah, I maintain the distance away from the street right away. And I I I think it's getting all the goals accomplished. I think Allan raises a great point. It's not going to uh conflict with the pergola next door. I think you're going to have additional room for tenants. Should there be another additional

638
03:13:08.080 --> 03:13:24.399
tenant there? Um, so I I like this design with the caveat of moving the 43 next to Princeton up top. And don't forget, people are going to look at this sign. They're going to maybe look at it for a second, second and a half. They're going to register the words and in their mind

639
03:13:24.399 --> 03:13:41.520
they'll be able to basically put everything together after a while. >> They're going to look at the 43, say, "Okay, yeah, that's where I'm going." It's my tenant there. Yeah, I see my tenant. They're going to Yeah. >> Just put Allan, what's the size of your lettering? >> It basically I took their uh original

640
03:13:41.520 --> 03:13:59.279
plan. I just pl it. >> If your plan is wide, >> whatever their whatever their width is, that's what >> No, your width got wider, didn't it? >> The width got wider, but the tenant sign is the same. The way he was able to

641
03:13:59.279 --> 03:14:15.840
do that was basically instead of a singular stack, a double stack, >> right? But you could be able to have larger letters then on yours. Of course, it's wider and >> I tend to agree with you, but I could not scale off of their plan.

642
03:14:15.840 --> 03:14:32.720
>> But basically, this is basically what they proposed except in a horizontal manner. >> And what's your height of yours is what 10 ft 8 ft >> 8.75 ft. And your and your proposal was what? I'm sorry. >> 10 ft. >> So yours is 10 ft high.

643
03:14:32.720 --> 03:14:50.920
>> No, it was 12. >> Oh, sorry. 12t. >> Yeah. >> So your prop So >> it was 12t. >> 12 feet. That's kind of high for that area. >> It's getting confused with the last 12 months.

644
03:14:50.960 --> 03:15:13.359
>> So 12 feet high. Okay. It's kind of large. We >> was two foot off the ground. I see. >> Yeah. So, yours is 3/4 with two feet off the ground, right? Two feet >> 18 in.

645
03:15:13.359 --> 03:15:27.680
>> Okay. A little. >> So, it's able to >> you Okay. But, so it's 10 feet with two plus two feet. You're eight and 3/4 feet plus two 18 inches. So, it's a little bit it's his is a little bit shorter but

646
03:15:27.680 --> 03:15:45.040
wider and you're able to have tenant, you know, um um with tenants listed with larger lettering, I would think, because of it's wider. So, do you think that a sign that's wider with larger lettering

647
03:15:45.040 --> 03:16:01.920
is maybe more important, more visible, that would help versus your, you know, 10 foot plus two foot grading? >> It will be more visible if I if you're if if I can get a bigger letter. I can get a bigger letter even now in the

648
03:16:01.920 --> 03:16:17.359
sense. >> Okay. >> But I can uniformally make a bigger letter. >> I'm sorry. you prefer your existing proposal versus what Allan is >> well what Allan's saying is not it's not a problem at all we don't want to force

649
03:16:17.359 --> 03:16:32.399
something on you what we're doing here uh is suggesting you know because of the experience we've had with signage in the town what works what doesn't work and also what we don't want to see as like this you know we've had proposal for

650
03:16:32.399 --> 03:16:48.640
massive signs you know way bigger than the ordinance and you know, and you know that out out of context. So, we're not trying to force you into Allen's design, but we're trying to maybe suggest that

651
03:16:48.640 --> 03:17:04.640
hey, there may be some, you know, some design elements of his his proposal that may be a fit better for you. So with Adam's design, >> yes, >> some of the some of the um design

652
03:17:04.640 --> 03:17:21.760
elements in this will disappear >> because you got us side by side. I'm not we what we had originally was the same 120 in wide, >> right? >> We cut that down a little bit on on the design. Not a little bit, quite a bit.

653
03:17:21.760 --> 03:17:38.319
We cut down the print the sand and the printing the size. That's where that one stood. It would be submitted and Allan came up with with his design. We can work with that as well. >> Right. But the the the thing is the you know the tenants get moved away from the

654
03:17:38.319 --> 03:17:55.120
road on in Allen design too. I just thought of that. >> You know I'm I'm want to make decisions for you. Um I like the 43 at the top. You know I that's 43.

655
03:17:55.120 --> 03:18:12.399
>> That's an easy >> somewhere where Princeton is in other words. >> Yes. Somewhere >> after the end you have a 43 >> and then send is it descend. >> Does it just just for does it Princeton

656
03:18:12.399 --> 03:18:28.239
if I put 43 underneath Princeton? Is that okay too? >> That's fine with me. Yeah. somewhere where it's visible but not going to get covered by snow or or >> No, I can I can work with something like that. >> Okay, that makes it like a 43 with a

657
03:18:28.239 --> 03:18:43.200
circle or something. >> Um I I don't I don't have a preference over the, you know, the existing, you know, versus Allen, you know, side by side. It's Allen's is slightly

658
03:18:43.200 --> 03:18:59.920
smaller in height but wider but um I don't know >> I I I don't think like the way like ascend Princeton if it's called Princeton ascend and I would think you'd have Princeton and ascend on on this side.

659
03:18:59.920 --> 03:19:14.720
>> Yeah, but then you're moving the tenants away from the road, >> right? So you got opposite. >> You're opposite on both. Well, then maybe the design doesn't >> I think the lettering, the color,

660
03:19:14.720 --> 03:19:31.520
and the way it's works out, it'll it'll read Princeton ascent. People aren't always going to call it ascent. >> And again, just to remind the board, too, if you look at the renderings, this is their design, right? No matter how you design it, if you're going to have the word on the side and

661
03:19:31.520 --> 03:19:47.200
one word on top, if you're going northbound, you're going to read it as princ. If you have it on southbound, you read it as a San Franc just based on the way the sign is designed, right? So that's going to remain the same no matter if it's, you know, the wider one

662
03:19:47.200 --> 03:20:05.279
designed by Allen or the taller one. It's just the function of the design of the sign and which way you're going. But if you are going northbound, it will read Princeton ascend left to right. David, how many drivebys does it take to call it Clint? >> I know, two or three maybe.

663
03:20:05.279 --> 03:20:22.880
>> Every every time you go towards uh the bridge, the Amtrak bridge, you read it as a send Princeton. Is that how your mind works? >> No, not necessar I mean, now you're getting to the psychological the psychology of reading, but typically the human mind can't see a phrase that's

664
03:20:22.880 --> 03:20:38.880
jumbled up and make sense of it, right? Um, there's been a lot of tests about how letters are organized and as long as certain phrases begin and end the same, you can still interpret a sentence. So, I I think after a couple trips pass,

665
03:20:38.880 --> 03:21:05.680
people will recognize that it's >> Can I suggest to maybe get us to the finish line? We focus on the bulk standards and the variances that are actually being requested which is the site, the size of the sign and the height. The the third variance is the

666
03:21:05.680 --> 03:21:21.040
the um >> the existence in the first place. So that's I think not the issue. The issue is is we're getting hung up on the design and maybe a condition of an approval if the board approves this this project could be that you you know work

667
03:21:21.040 --> 03:21:36.960
with the township consultants to come up with a design you know within those dimensions that the board and you can agree on um that we you know that you can live with um so that we don't necessarily have to work out those

668
03:21:36.960 --> 03:21:53.200
details. Um >> thank you. Thank you. >> Good way to proceed. >> I I I want to vote on something that I know what this thing is going to look like. >> I It bothers me not not having not knowing what the sign is going to look like. >> I don't care if I have to be here for 10

669
03:21:53.200 --> 03:22:10.080
minutes at another meeting, but I I need >> But let me ask you a question. >> That's what we're voting. >> Um do you care whether that do you care that whether it's um taller and ten is listed top to bottom or Allan where it's wide? Do you care about that?

670
03:22:10.080 --> 03:22:25.840
No, you care you care about the colors in >> you want the letters to be seven inches. >> Well, the tenant I think you want the tenant on that. >> Do you want the tenant lettering to be seven in? >> I think I should. >> Okay. Can you agree to 7in tenant letters? Done.

671
03:22:25.840 --> 03:22:41.680
>> Um coloring. Are you okay with the coloring of the rendering? Just is this back lit with the lighting or >> the person has said is is what they call back lit or halo. >> Back. Okay.

672
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>> So, you're okay. You okay with the brick and the >> This is This is the colors here are going to be close to the real world. What the It's going to look like brick and >> brick should be very reddish. >> The brick. I'm going to pick the brick the same color as the >> Yeah. Okay. So, the brick and the red coloring. You're okay with the black the

673
03:22:58.720 --> 03:23:19.760
back lit lettering of Princess. You're okay. >> So yeah, I mean it depends >> in normal channel they called back something was that the lights come back. Yeah. >> I think the right aid when it was the

674
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right aid had back lit. >> So halo is when the actual lights shine back. >> Yeah. >> Not forward. So the face of the letter is opaque. So it gives you that halo effect which is the more smarter.

675
03:23:36.479 --> 03:23:55.319
>> Okay. So you so so you're you're okay with that so far. What about height? >> Height. The height was proposed very high. >> It's the 10 feet plus two feet rating. >> Yeah. I mean, when you look at the uh

676
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>> like on this, >> you know, >> well, this person >> this person must have gotten dropped off because very few people walk. >> He's waiting to cross the street to go to Quincy Junction train station and he's checking out the crosswalk.

677
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>> Yeah. Well, he's on his way to crosswalk, but he's checking to see what tenants are here. Okay. Um, >> that's awfully big. He's six feet average. >> It may be me. I'm only 5 foot seven.

678
03:24:30.640 --> 03:24:46.000
>> Okay. So then you're you're going to be on 10 and three. You'll be tiny. >> I think so. >> Okay. >> So it looks like >> Does anybody have issue? It's 10 feet

679
03:24:46.000 --> 03:25:00.880
high plus two feet of grading. Do we have any issues? We have problems with it's too high with it. >> I definitely have a problem with it being too high. >> Okay. >> Because so do I. >> First of all, it's visual clutter to begin with.

680
03:25:00.880 --> 03:25:17.760
>> And it's not even a monument sign. If you look at the definition of a monument sign, >> this is not monument sign. When you go up, >> uh the monument sign is a low freestanding sign that sits directly on the ground. It's not

681
03:25:17.760 --> 03:25:34.640
attached to any part of the building. What is being proposed is really pedestal side or freestanding side. So when you have that the 12oot sign in such close quarters with the adjacent building, you basically are going to be

682
03:25:34.640 --> 03:25:52.080
obscuring a lot of the features of that adjacent building which we painstakingly got from the developer when we came in to do that. So I think Leaving it at the 8.75 as I'm suggesting

683
03:25:52.080 --> 03:26:07.359
is a very good compromise because he's still going to be able to get his 80 square feet in the design that I have and I'm not changing I didn't change any of the slots for his >> and your letter height is seven inches. >> I'm sorry. letter height would

684
03:26:07.359 --> 03:26:24.000
>> I I don't know what height has been before >> in a side by side the the letter height should be higher for the tenant larger for the tenants because you're fitting it side by side as opposed to up and down. >> I think the test has to be on the name of the tenant.

685
03:26:24.000 --> 03:26:39.439
>> Okay. >> How many tenants are in this? >> Seven. >> There are seven. Okay. How are their names long, short, or you you don't know yet? >> There's one that's the school of dance. I that it's someone's last name and I think that's at least eight or 10

686
03:26:39.439 --> 03:26:57.120
letters. >> Okay. >> Yeah. School. >> Okay. >> And there's also what I'm showing is >> you got space. You have space for to make adjustments within this. So there's a whole area of tenant.

687
03:26:57.120 --> 03:27:12.800
>> Yeah. You can add tenants if you needed to on this on this proposal. You can add tenants. You could add a tenant or or you could extend the name of their >> Well, that that's true, too. You can have a you can have a you can have um

688
03:27:12.800 --> 03:27:31.439
>> you can have a larger >> you can comb you can combine slots, you know, to you know to make larger fonts for a larger name. >> Can I make this wider? >> Yeah, that's fine.

689
03:27:31.439 --> 03:28:01.200
>> Make this wider. Yeah. >> Just give them dimension. >> It's this shape. You don't see it. It's this and this shade. >> No, no. There's no there's no need to come back. Just approve the size of the

690
03:28:01.200 --> 03:28:19.600
thing. and this design and then let them work with uh David to come up with the size. >> So, okay. So, I'm moving this along here. >> Yeah. >> Are you okay with the dimensions 8 and 3/4 by um 120 in

691
03:28:19.600 --> 03:28:35.279
>> 8 and 3/4t by 120 in? >> You're okay with that? >> Okay. That gives you your 80 something feet >> 80 square feet. >> Okay. seven in >> and well they have room to change their

692
03:28:35.279 --> 03:28:50.880
font size any way they want because now there's extra space here. There's only seven tenants. They can combine two slots to make this one 12 in they want and this one seven in and this one 9 in. However they want to do it. Or

693
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theoretically they could have three rows of two tenants and then if there's a tenant with a longer name, >> right, >> that can take up two. As long as I can work with the manufacturer is >> if we stay within this design that we've got now. >> Yes, we can. >> Okay,

694
03:29:06.640 --> 03:29:29.680
>> we can do one long one if he's got one long pen. >> Yeah, >> because there's an And I would say I mean I wouldn't even not to complicate it. I would just say seven inches for either lettering and or logo because depending on how that logo

695
03:29:29.680 --> 03:29:45.680
is designed sometimes the lettering might be small being eight and a half inches and the letters are seven. >> Yeah. >> Kuman, >> right? Excellent. Right. It's bigger. And then and then as far as design element, their brick and their coloring

696
03:29:45.680 --> 03:30:01.200
on things matches and um >> and they've already agreed or think it's a good idea to put the 43 next to the end and print >> in a circle or below or below. However, you know, to me, you know, as long as

697
03:30:01.200 --> 03:30:16.560
it's near the top, I think it works. So, I'm okay with that. Um and I think everybody else is okay with that. And you guys are okay with 80 square feet. >> Okay. Can I go blush? Can I put 43 here on

698
03:30:16.560 --> 03:30:34.479
>> Linda? Let let them work with her. We have given them. Let's not design the sign at 10:00 at night. >> So you need a motion. >> I I'm I'm going to make So >> Okay. So I'm going to make a motion for uh whatever the number is 2603

699
03:30:34.479 --> 03:30:50.880
um with the include this in the thing with 120 in wide and uh what's the total height >> 84 high? >> Yes.

700
03:30:50.880 --> 03:31:08.479
>> Right. with uh uh 43 the uh the number 43 on the top and then you work with the township professionals to do the final sign. >> Are we still considering a waiver from the landscape requirement? Yeah. Okay.

701
03:31:08.479 --> 03:31:24.479
>> Would be a variance, not a waiver because >> it's in the redevelopment section. Yeah. >> But do they actually do they need the varian for the landscaping? If there's >> the ladder. >> Yeah. If the numbers going to the top, do you still

702
03:31:24.479 --> 03:31:40.640
>> Why should that matter? It's to me the from my perspective, the pedestal is fine. >> Okay. >> Without the landscaping. >> Land do the landscaping however you want it. It's not going to block the you don't you well you want to choose landscaping. It's not going to block the

703
03:31:40.640 --> 03:31:58.160
tenant names eventually. So, we're asking for the variance to provide that. >> Okay, >> that's fine. >> Landscaping of the base. >> Yeah, we should have >> because the base is getting short. >> Should have a base. >> The base is a foot and a half. I mean,

704
03:31:58.160 --> 03:32:13.600
it's a nice It's a nice brick base. You're going to hide the base. So, why you know I don't I don't see it. >> I'd be in favor of the various Yeah, that's fine.

705
03:32:13.600 --> 03:32:31.560
>> So this So just to be clear, just make sure. So this is 8.75 and then we have 18. >> Yeah. 8.75 from grade to top. >> Yeah. 8 and 3/4t from grade to top.

706
03:32:32.080 --> 03:32:48.160
>> And was it foot and a half? >> It's going to be tough to squeeze in. >> No, no, it's 84 from here. Yeah. >> I don't know. >> Yeah, it's eight. It's from where the brick ends it go it's 8 and 3/4T. >> Yeah. So the base not

707
03:32:48.160 --> 03:33:08.720
>> and the base is not good and 3/4. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> The overall height is 8.75 ft from the base >> to the top. >> From the bottom of the brick. >> Yeah, that's the base. from the base

708
03:33:08.720 --> 03:33:26.720
from grade from grade to the base of the or the sign is 18 in as opposed to 24 in. >> I'm >> No, that's not what you're showing here. That's not what you're showing here.

709
03:33:26.720 --> 03:33:42.960
>> From the top of the brick to the top of the sign. >> Okay. >> That's what I see. you see >> I think I think what's happening if you turn the exhibit sideways you'll see 87 in with a dimension from the top of the

710
03:33:42.960 --> 03:33:58.319
brick base to the top of the sign that's 7.25 ft. Then there's another dimension next to the brick base of 18 in that's a foot and a half foot and a half plus 7.25 is 8.75 ft.

711
03:33:58.319 --> 03:34:15.279
See, you show the you show the brick brick of 18 in and then that's on top of that. >> So, it's 80 >> then then it's not 80 square feet then.

712
03:34:15.279 --> 03:34:33.600
>> It might be 87. But I it basically just took what they had put it on. >> I know. But how concerned was there? It shouldn't be higher than 8.75 ft and >> max. >> They have max. So they have 80 square

713
03:34:33.600 --> 03:34:50.720
feet to work in where they're facing which is what they had asked for before. >> But 80 square feet needs it's 10 ft wide. So it has to be 8 ft 8 ft high. >> And you have 18 in. >> Yeah. But you're saying that it's

714
03:34:50.720 --> 03:35:20.880
it's not 8t high. Yeah. It's only um it's less than eight feet high. >> I'm showing 18 in gives you >> from here to here is 87 in >> 87,

715
03:35:20.880 --> 03:35:37.319
>> right? 188 >> but 87 that's not quite 85 right there >> it's actually >> less less >> no 8 81 in is only 7

716
03:35:37.680 --> 03:36:00.000
>> 7 * 127 >> what I suggest is keep it at 80 whoever they You want 80 square ft, right? And this is 18 in, >> right? >> Okay. So, fine.

717
03:36:00.000 --> 03:36:18.600
>> 18 inch base 80 uh 8 ft high. >> Okay. So, it's Yeah. So, it's 12t wide and 8 ft high. >> Okay. It's 12 ft wide, 8 ft high, and 18 in of base for the bricks.

718
03:36:18.720 --> 03:36:35.279
>> H sorry, 10 ft wide, 8 ft high. That will give you 80 square ft for the sign. >> Okay. 10 by 8. >> That includes Princeton ascent, right? >> The 18 in for the base.

719
03:36:35.279 --> 03:36:50.560
>> 18inch brick base. >> For the brick base, correct? >> Okay. The >> correct in addition to that >> 8 ft high and 10 ft wide will encompass all the tenants and princ >> and number 43 >> and number 43.

720
03:36:50.560 --> 03:37:05.359
>> Yes. >> 96 square ft. >> So that will be 96. >> No, >> no, no, you don't count the base. >> You don't count the base. >> 8 just the signage. 8 ft >> and 10 ft wide at the top and 10 ft

721
03:37:05.359 --> 03:37:21.720
wide. 8 * 10 is 80 ft. >> Right. Right. 8 is 96 in >> height. Yeah. But we just saying 8 ft. Yeah. 8t. >> Okay. So

722
03:37:22.880 --> 03:37:38.640
>> for that sign and then >> the sign the sign will include Princeton. >> Yeah. >> Ascend and the tenant. However you you know side by side gives you the ability to make letter height adjustments which is more flexible than

723
03:37:38.640 --> 03:37:55.920
than your opt you know your vertical >> just just you know again it's your design but >> we think that works better for you. >> How high is the base? >> The base is 18 in >> 18 in grip. >> Yeah. >> And they got a variance for landscaping

724
03:37:55.920 --> 03:38:12.560
so they don't want to hide the nice. >> Yeah. Okay. So now >> that's that's the motion and second >> motion by the mayor, >> second by Simon. >> Uh please call the roll. >> Why? I'm sorry to

725
03:38:12.560 --> 03:38:29.239
>> clarify that I abstain, right? Because this application started last week and I was absent. >> Yeah, you're right. You're right. >> You're right. You didn't Yeah, you didn't listen to the first one. to continue.

726
03:38:32.720 --> 03:38:51.120
>> No, you are not here too. >> He he he chaired the meeting. >> Oh, so this is it's not last week. It's >> May in May. >> I mean, are you early? >> Okay. >> Technically, we started from scratch.

727
03:38:51.120 --> 03:39:04.880
What will happen? >> Wait a second. If I can't vote, why am I working so hard on this? Oh, you didn't did you? >> I did not. >> No, we never we never thought about that.

728
03:39:04.880 --> 03:39:22.160
>> So, okay. Call the role for the team. >> This these two. >> Okay. Call call the role. Call the role. >> The condition is set four. I'll entertain a motion for PV26-3. I think we had a motion by the mayor,

729
03:39:22.160 --> 03:39:38.399
seconded by Simon. Please call the role. >> Mr. Patel, >> yes. >> Mr. Shaktel, >> yes. >> Mr. Pankov, >> yes. >> Mr. Appet, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Jvers. Mayor Marte. >> Yes. >> And Vice Chairman Hoverman. >> Yes.

730
03:39:38.399 --> 03:39:54.000
>> And Kim Park abstains. >> Yeah. And you have to call her name to abstain. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> I really want to see the sign when you put it up. We spent we spent 10 hours

731
03:39:54.000 --> 03:40:03.279
talking about it. and mix it in the car.