don't give anybody any gifts public information represent the third part gain I don't have any gain here I have a law I don't have a not prohibir all right
oh hi maybe not able to make it tonight hi hi Jacobs a c set up it's yeah it's a virus
please thank you joh and in this this is my other
document good evening uh for the record my name is Ed schme I'm the attorney for the West Windsor Town Zoning Board of adjustment and this this evening is the reorganization meeting for 2025 for the board first order of
business will be to swear in three members of the board who have been reappointed so if we can have John Dan and Eugene stand up raise your right hand please and repeat after me I please state your name I you solemnly swear you solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the constition of the United States and of the state of New Jersey and of the
state of New Jersey that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments established and to the governments established in the united states in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will Faithfully that I will faithfully impartially impartially and justly and justly perform all the duties perform all the duties of a member of of the
member of West Windor Township Zoning Board of adjustment West Windor Township Zoning Board of adjustment according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability and that I will not use my office that I will not use my office to Grant preferential treatment to Grant preferential treatment nor seek any personal gain or seek any person gain favor favor or Advantage Advantage for the Gen to the from the general public from the general public
congratulations now last roll call for all members um Mr Church oh did you call my name yeah Mr I'm here okay Mr Mar yes Mr van Dy here Mr Roa present Mr
Jacobson Vice chairman hobman here chairman Abby here Mr freen here Mr Gia here the next order of business would be for the uh board to accept nominations for chairperson for 2025 is there such a nomination I nominate Susan ABY we have a nomination for Susan ABY is there a second second any other
nominations hearing none all in favor opposed congratulations Madam chair welcome you go I this is to advise that notice of the time d and to the extent known agenda of subject meeting is prominently posted in the public place reserved for such or similar announcements on January 21st
2025 mailed to the Princeton packet Trenton Times at West wiser plsb news on January 21 2025 and followed with attach clerk on January 21 2025 do we have a nomination for vice chair I will nominate Curtis hobman as the nomination by Kyle and second by John Raider all in favor say I I any opposed seeing none congratulations
honored to serve okay have the appointment of administrative secretary arielito who's out there I'm just reading it appointment secretary paa Alex and appointment of zoning board members to site inspection Review Committee uh do we have a motion for the appointment of Harry and paa
first I'll make that motion okay do we have a second no second second by John Raider all in favor say I I any opposed hearing none ter yeah two new people welcome um appointment of zoning board members to site inspection Review
Committee we havek told me he doesn't want okay Michael Daniel and John Church that right three we don't do we have to nominate them I'll nominate SL second by who is that John or Carl
John I think John said that all in favor say I I any opposed none that passes thank you guys for doing that resoltion resolution DV 2025 R1 and 2025 R2 schedule regular meetings first Thursday of every month official and other newspapers to receive meeting
notices authorization for chairman or vice chair to approve bills and vouchers let's do those three Al together does anybody have any comments about that I have a question given the fact that just past Monday the TR times cease to publish print editions how does that it's online read you gotta go through all yeah it's
very hard to find the governor recently signed a a a law a short law that would allow for the online to be done until a more comprehensive change is made later this year so the times can still do it online I just thought I'd asked any other questions or comments regular meeting newspaper notification and Bill approving do we
have a motion to approve those three ab and C I'll move move by John Rider second I'll second second by Carl all in favor say I I any opposed ding none motion is carried the resolution ZB 2025 R3 the appointing of professional staff for 2025 um I've had discussions with Sam about um how many people were going up
and when is the last time they were raised to M Sam if you could kind of give a little just summary sure um we'll start out with our board attorney um is currently at $25 an hour or $200 an hour and requesting to go up to $25 an hour well our um civil engineer is at 144 he's asking to go up to$ 150 which is a $6 an hour increase our zoning board environmental
engineer Mr jebson is at 151 he's looking for 158 which is seven additional dollars an hour our traffic engineer is at 170 and is going to remain at 170 our planning consultant and our uh landscape architect is at 155 an hour and they do not want any increase and then we have a u civil engineer a conflict engineer we've only had to use Mr Turk once when
our current engineer had a conflict when the psng application was in front of the board and in all my time with the township that's the only time we ever needed a conflict engineer but I've kept them on just in case something pops up he's currently at 155 an hour and wanted to go up to 175 an hour which is a $20 income cre um again all of these Consultants other than Ed all charge their time to the development's application feas so nothing comes out of
the taxpayer dollars or the budget that the zoning bu has what's the other civil engineer what's our regular civil engineer I'm sorry what is our regular civil engineer at Ian Hill no what's his rate his rate is 150 now Sam you said some of these are bringing some of the people up to the amount they are charging for the planning board is
that right that's correct I would hope since we have so many going up this year that next year we don't have we had lots of years these do not the Ed stayed the same for the last couple years um same thing with Ian Chris Jepson um and same thing with quasi our civil engineer and Dave Novak for three years
was at that rate so yeah of them most of them have not gone three years that's reasonable I do yes Reas any questions comments just one note I want to make we have a new traffic safety officer Sergeant uh cops he's going to be taking over you guys typically don't need his Services
um he sits in on the TRC meetings if it's a commercial application so typically it's for claiming board he doesn't do a report or anything but I want the traffic safety officer at those virtual TRC meetings just to make sure at least have an input in any commercial application and anded for your office we have Trisha as a backup and Lisa madx seen her before we've not seen her no I don't
believe Lisa been here no any other questions we have a motion so move second move by John Raider second by who was that John second by John Church all in favor say I I any opposed hearing that's hearing the Freshman staff is approv for
2025 minutes for Wallet
card take a picture and it to me mind who you I've never you want a gun
to him junior junior zoning officer December I had one thing which was on the second page um col just of guidance the second to last paragraph following will present to testify on behalf of the applicant um says Bon board members asked several questions if you could just put U as
asked several questions including additional use of basement space as living space and the layout of the gym in the bathroom yeah just so that in the minutes it's got we want to have what we discussed in a minute that's I can send this down to you and anybody else page two enlarge on the discussion by the zoning board
um but what we talked about questions that we asked wasn't specified just there and talked about the space b not no more those were the two main thing I mean obviously there were some others but those the bring I was going to bring it up to any other comments how are we going to deal with that even we don't have that secretary in our service
anymore how are we going to do it modifying these minutes given that the person who took them is no longer in our service anymore oh we have ways Jonah [Laughter] we TR right are we taking a motion or
something there any other com do we have a motion to approve I move to approve the minutes that's amended motion made by Carl second all second all in favor say I I any opposed being none resolution ZD 245 is gr yes I have something on page four at the bottom of the last paragraph uh
talking about the the variance of di Minimus 0.0159 166 feet it should be 166 square feet I think not just feet uh that's right yeah uh yeah yeah rais is a good point 0.0159 what's the unit there is it percentage is it decimal what uh this is
uh F right what is it 0.0159 what is it in terms P coverage F coverage right is it a fraction or is it a percentage it's not a percentage it's a fraction it's a fraction okay a decimal fraction or it could be 1.59% that would be perhaps almost nothing it's half an inch yeah you wrote it what what is what
should it be was it say should this be what are the units of per ofage differ F by definition is a is a percentage coverage right so thato or I forget the the numbers we'll clarify that to the percentage of the F coverage okay but but it should be 166 square feet not just we got square feet right yeah
right I mean 100 of a percent is really small no it's it's 1.59% I think or maybe not the ma I don't know what the math is anymore can do the math well what's the toal I don't have we'll check it I move the approval of
cb45 resolution with brick oh excuse me you do have the lot is given on page one is 10,443 square fet but what's the uh and66 of those is exceeded yeah would right be about fraction you said Carl 1.59 yes it's 1.59% or
a right that's that makes sense yeah it says it very clearly on page three section c even has square feet there
you you want to run over what you're gonna change well we're going to clarify wherever appears 0.015 59 it should be 1.59% greater than permitted so whatever that appears will will change that make it clear
okay anything else be already approved it they approve it again clarification anything else in this resolution we have a motion to approve changes discussed I move to approve resolution
for CB 24-5 with correction moveed by Curtis all second second by generator all in favor say I I objection none ZB 245 is I take just a comment about this and
we get these things Double started this is such a paper read and usually a lot of them are doublesided but no there were quite a few I think in this package that were not okay West Windsor Zoning Board of
adjustment 2024 oh do um public comment on non-agenda item non-agenda item if there's anybody here see nobody here is anybody here would like to comment forward seeing none close the public comment I have a comment on the
anal yeah that's next I'm okay that's what I was stipping to okay um I have a question about this Sam it says here the board received nine new applications we only heard five of there's only they would have been carried over from last year too so been what we carried over like the institute for Islamic Studies has been kicking around for a while so I saw on the list s that was originally scheduled for tonight
that was on the projection sheet which was an older projection sheet but what what is it's what is that application ml de um it was contined to February date we're good about to March right uh April 3D and it's on for that night so there need to be an ml extension no it's on for April 3D and the o'cl that's right that's right March
March you mean remember I'm getting months mixed up this is dated December 11 I gave a cette at the end of the year so it's not updated so the one that was updated one has until April 3D so we're set okay and everybody gets an updated one it goes out to to the chair and the vice chair actually which one is on April 3rd the 06 or the 07 he's talking about the Islamic Studies the second amended application for that
Z okay it's on for April 3D tentative that's April 3 and then the Steve jenss is on for March 6 he will be on for the March meeting correct right and call you said you were not here for the I am coming on an airplane that lands at Newark at about two in the afternoon I should be here but happens you
know your that recall a sort of a smooze of an application anyway n applications that were received you
might not have heard all of them because okay so this is just just what you're off there's a couple that were incomplete in December like Mr jenx and the um the Onyx application was incomplete and one was withdrawn so so do we have three pending or two pending the report says two pending but I see three uh in December you had three pending Mr Janks application is deemed complete and moving forward so there are
two pending right now oh okay which are the two pending right ZB 2406 and ZB 1101 SP second amand okay all right what is 06 is that a house or something I'm sorry the ZB 406 that 2406 2406 yes that's a house it was an application the board heard several years ago to two vacant Lots on
Old Trenton Road right across backs up to the so one of those is under construction one's under construction the other one they Dilly dollied around and didn't get their building perit in time and their zoning approval expir so they have to reapply again for the whole thing full reapplication full reapplication oh my God okay they're having trouble comprehending that I've been working for several months that's not on this L it is 2406 bu build okay I was wondering about
that what happened from Village it's quite a ways actually it's p down the road it's past South Post Yeah it's down saw one that's going up down there it's next to that it's next to that yeah okay yeah that was several years ago we
did that yeah now I wonder what happened with it well one is one up and the other one didn't get their work done to get their renewal in time they didn't get their permit issued in time before the approval end and they neglected to come in to get an extension of the approved
item number four our recommendations mentioned one time saying that uh it was being considered that if you finished within the building envelope like an attic that you would not include that for variance really is that correct
something to me about that we discussed it but there wasn't any clear consensus from the board it was the application that was on Alexander from the ACs on that which they ended up not doing any of them um I guess that was also adding bed that was adding the bedroom correct oh so I mean is there anything else that restrains adding a bedroom I mean other than other than you're if they are does that kick anything else
into needing variance such as another parking space for some reason if they want to go from four to five or five to six or something like that it would oh is is that paragraph motivated by the most recent case we heard yes but it would also have taken several other applications we've seen in the past off the correct basically anybody wed to finish their basement and they
exceeded the F by doing so would no longer have to come to the board if the council accepts this recommendation and there's no and there's no bedroom and correct yeah I I think it would have to be expressed a little more succinctly so that it would be uh of ordinance the langage John you know the council never accepts any of your recommendations so if they do by some chance then we will definitely be working on an ordinance
that would be very specific it really would be if you um if you add another bedroom within the basement or out of or somewhere within the building envelop that should be included in the F yes absolutely we only discussed it in the in the basement area we didn't discuss it if it was unfinished attic and they wanted to put it a bedroom up there there was no recommendation made unless the group wants to make a recommendation this even I think your intent is if there is no
change to the exterior external uh appearance of the house the only consideration with regard to calculating f is sleeping parts for the basement for the basement that's what's written here we're now discussing whether or not not we want to exclude if someone wants to finish an unfinished attic and turn it into a bedroom should that count against their F if it's a bedroom or if it's a living room or it's
just an F no matter what the are well you're then making a general principle if you don't change the outside envelope of a house you can cram as much finish space as you possibly can to the envelope that's essentially what we're say except except in the basement if you're going to put a bedroom in there then the sleeping unit but if you're finishing the third floor attic to a bedroom is that excluded I wouldn't think so then that's the then then it's if you're finishing the third floor attic to a wck room would we then
exclude it I think the more concerned about the basement is is is to make sure that it beats all the code for fire escape and so forth and you're not turning it into an apartment all right well why would the atct be any different well the adct Ty there's no exterior entrance to get into a third floor attic unless you build step from the outside get in and the basement you can put in a bill Cod door or something like
that separate entrance to get into the basement and it could be turned into an apartment so if I put a bill Cod door in but I didn't put a bedroom in would that I went over the F would I no we went do this on the um Stacy Fox Application on whether it's a dwelling unit or a structure accessory structure accessory dwelling unit it there's a specific definition in the code so if it's an exterior entrance and you have u a full bath and you have kitchen facilities then it's considered an accessory
apartment sure I'm just saying if I finish my basement does is the no exterior action include like adding a bill code door or window exterior that's exterior okay so really nothing okay that's pretty safe I always asked that the council Define what a shed is they won't do it we need to know what
a shed is and and their size regulat well shed is an accessory structure we have so much trouble with that taking care of the chickens either of the chickens I know a lot of places have more than three chickens by the way oh you do chick I'm not reporting any of them but they're definitely in town but this shed thing seriously is going to come up again and again and again and Council will not Define what a shed is
they just won't do it and it puts the onus on us to figure it out and I don't like that we have to make up a rule of this request because it does seem to me if you you decide to completely set out your basement and you've got a recreation room I mean they build houses have a 10 fo n and 10 foot ceiling with the basement and they that's a whole
another floor and you're saying that that would not be included in the F if that's your recommendation here yes unless it's going to be a bedroom then the bedroom area would be calculated but we had this business where sometimes we're being told that we're counting an unfinished basement with that is used for stuff as in the F which always seemed nuts to me why we want to make it clear on this I mean I don't remember any basement F issue that you guys ever
denied so I have I have a OT I have a OT Bas steing basement over a thousand square feet in Finish space so I mean I mean problem basement and they build them now you know problem is that there's an exterior door that other people could come in and live there if there's no exterior door then you'd have to come in the front door to get down to the B I think it's very simple he said no exterior changes so that's covered
and cover that I I I'm okay personally with it but it sounds like not every Los anything trying to get clarification yeah what it means I don't remember keep them from putting in another door there so people can't come in and have a separate living but that would be an exterior change so please we don't want people coming in through an exterior door and having the separate living quarters in the basement don't want that that's covered by his proposal and we could amend this to include that to basically
say also just recommendation it's it's up to council or the planning board or something well you can have you can take that you know uh 1500 square foot basement and make a live full living space but it doesn't have a bedroom well you always put a bed in there anyway that would be okay but if you designated one but if you put up walls and made a bedroom then you would not be okay take some of the applications well people are very if you remember how many
basement applications you heard this came up because of the the last application you just SC the resolution on like why is this poor guy coming in here and he had an exterior interest he did and the last one I think of had an exterior they can always put in temporary partitions to make it a def facto bedroom even though it's not built people will do that too people will do that no matter what you do I
me BL off the bedroom but obviously one person you have the kitchen and bathroom and the shower and a living area and a bedroom area just couldn't have the walls up with the door are closed all right oh anyway something for Sam to watch out for and let us know what was the cost of this application he didn't have to hire U
professionals did he no one has to if they're if it's a sole proprietorship or if it's a residential unit you can represent yourself but the application fee it's a $250 application fee and a $3,500 escro fee to come in for any fa auths plus you got to pay the township professionals since you get the 2500 back well it depends on Ed and Dave Jes yeah you pay for all the professionals you you're looking between your own professionals and well you know from two well that for thing I've done
is 50 to $50,000 quite the zoning board those guys that came in here to do this basement thing spent quite a lot of money they had they had the whole I don't know why they had the whole gang they didn't need it but they spent thousands some people don't feel comfortable representing them so I mean zoning board for a big application is expensive for a small application it's probably $10,000 unless you're going to be down at the level of the site plan review
committee self-represent and so on um you know while he's 205 any zoning zoning lawyer worth his salt in the commercial is four to four to $600 an hour they're going to ask you know 3,000 just to you know retainer retainer just to do a simple application and if you got to pay an architect or a planner my question is this this something the Buildings Department can handle without the
application having to come in front under the current ordinance if they exceed the F by finishing their basement they coming from you okay so you're saying with this what happens is the application come to you and if you see their plans and it's not designating a bedroom that you don't have to pass it to us but if it does if the design does show a bedroom then you can say to the applicant if you're going to have a sear bedroom you're gonna have to go to zoning board not necessarily if I would only calculate the square footage of the
bedroom in the basement and if then it exceeds the 133% comes to you oh oh that's tricky swe footage so any other finished space would not count toward they F they are at all right not that they just don't need the exception it just doesn't get calculated think the whole thing started getting count when she put yeah the thing to watch out for is is it conditioned space or not if it's heating heated and cool then it can be converted into a living quarters that's the one we
just had it was not there was no conditioned space it was the rest of the big was unconditioned so you can't cor because that was a concern as Mr C is bringing up now well I would do you think this is something that Township does want to know if bedrooms are being added if a bedroom's being added the construction department will know because they'll need a construction permit after I sign off on
it and move it over so I I personally don't think it's an issue if it's a bedroom or a rec room it shouldn't be calculated at all in the F if there's no changes to the exterior okay so you feel even if they had a basement bedom there's no it's not an issue so it's only if there's a bedroom and adding that square foot Sam doesn't
even think the bedrooms worth worrying about and put it over the F that's the way it's written here only because the Ford at the last meeting had a concern about bedrooms in the basement I personally don't have an issue with that so you you don't think adding a bedroom in a basement um should go to FAO I do know okay okay I mean anybody who's ever dealt with the permits yeah Department knows
there nothing gets by there there's yeah they have to have inspections and everything they can always put it up after they but bedrooms in basements have a whole set of issues that are expensive yeah because you got to have a second means of egis and you have to possibly if you have septic increase your septic system so they're not affecting building yeah so that'll all get addressed by the township Sam you're saying that the bedroom is not an issue to you but uh what about the change in
the outdoor appearance you well I mean if someone even if it was an exterior entrance to get into the basement and they had a bedroom down there and a bathroom it it can't be used they can't rent it out as an apartment it doesn't meet the definition of an apartment and it doesn't have kitchen facilities down if they had an exterior entrance a bedroom a bath and a kitchen it's an apartment I wouldn't approve it right unless they also had an entrance from
the basement to the upstairs they'd have to do away with the separate entrance to the basement it would all have to come through the house you need separate utilities meters too no they would I wouldn't allow separate so you would require no change to the outside of the building if somebody wanted to if if somebody wanted to I've approved many basements with full kitchens yeah there's nothing against having two or three kitchens in your home I've I've approved it with a full kitchen and a bathroom and a bedroom down there and they didn't exceed the F
but they didn't have a separate entrance so it's allowed so no separate entrance is that's what it has to be all four of those things bath kitchen bedroom separate entrance then it's an apartment now on the other hand the basement's really probably ought to have have an emergency exit in case of a fire the building code would enforce that they would have to have make sure that the Finish ceiling height is 7t yeah and they have a proper fire
in from the Bas well I have a well with a window yeah okay so anyway we're going to trust Sam to keep an eye on this yeah you know we trust you Sam to figure it out if you think that's what so we basically want to say that if the basement what if they want to finish the basement it shouldn't count as F just leave it as simple as that take the word out where it says
bedroom basically oh if you want to finish your basement it shouldn't count as F so you're saying there's a decision whether you include the bedroom and I think we just agreed that nobody had an issue with the bedroom and I'll catch it if they try to put it B the critical thing might be whether there's a kitchen down there if there's a no exterior entrance then it doesn't matter whether there's a So in theory as
long as there's an exterior entrance and I think most basements have an emergency not necessarily most basement exterior entrance But but so you're saying it's okay even if they put a kitchen and a bedroom down there it doesn't come to us I've approved many of those haven't come to the board because they didn't exceed the F when I calculated the basement area they finished this paragraph does not require no additional entrance we don't need to put that in there John because if they were to have a bedroom a kitchen and a bathroom and an exterior entrance no
matter what the f is they'd have to come to the board because it meets a definition of an accessory apartment in fact that did happen to us years ago on sou Road I remember it well I was newly on the board and I forget the man's name but he was going to finish this big basement and have all kinds of stuff down there and we we uh yeah that was the one that through the application the concern was is because he was at 133% with with the second the first and
second Flor and that pH was three times as big as the ranchers around it right it was a huge and he wanted to finish he could do that as long as he put it on the slab but he wanted to put a basement in and that basement was 1500 square feet and he wanted to finish it and the board denied it the neighbors are here and they didn't want the 3,000 foot house above Grand if he just put a slab in it wouldn't even come to the board of course they're building two Mega houses on the other side of the power line
right where that house was going to go and they built the third Mega house on on whichever one it is south south or Village no on Village oh Village Road East Village Road East or whatever there that Taj Mahal thing yeah you need a variance for that y so and just like the big house on Village Road West across from the Catholic Church they didn't need a for that big home that's what I think huge lock enormous
Lo pen that's it pen that's the Taj Mahal house so just to Su up you're saying if in the basement they put kitchen bathrooms and the bedroom but no exterior door you will not count any of that including the
bedroom currently I would count that and if it exceeded a 133% they come in for an F variance for you okay under the proposal that I just made okay none of that will c as fa if they were to do that and have an exterior entrance they'd come to the zoning board not for an F variance new SPS for an accessory apart and a full walk out basement which was what we saw last time is still a basement that's an entrance so they were
well in that case they had the entrance issue but but in terms of finishing the space but believe it or not for all these new homes being built very rarely do they have bual doors to come out everything is through the house and you know most people have three and four garages too so whatever they put you not going to enter and exit daily to a bill think and if somebody wanted to make it apartment they're going to put in More Than Just a Bill the to it out right and
some those metal doors that are at an angle oh like the old farm houses well there's I they're not just on Old Farm houses they're on new houses too but yeah doors you pick you pull up which is a historic building that's what a yeah I have I I don't think people would want to enter in next correct the second question is that application you approved on Alexander
Road where they finished the third floor if there's if somebody wants to finish the radic should it count as F I think Carl said it should and they should come here if it exceeds the F so we're going to keep that the way it is because that was that came up at that meaning on that application well at some point you're gutting the principle of f right I don't know how you especially when you're adding a bever which is definitely keep in mind you you've asked the council to increase the F in certain zones to 15% so 99% of what you heard
the last three years wouldn't come to you Council wasn't even want to talk about I mean Ed came two years ago I thought we had it and then they decided no after that that's right I guess the only thing I question is those on septic systems into a bigger CTIC yes but that's the health department they'll get caught by the review process and it would go to the health department so they might come in here and get a variance and then turn around and find out that they got to get I talked to them before they come in here to talk to
the health department so they understand not just approv from us but it may cost them $30,000 to redo the septic field at least at least yeah Sam you're offending there's no negative cquence change none that I could see now and the benefit would be could potentially see residents time money Spence without affecting the exterior
the way that a neighborhood looks or anything so if it doesn't get added to square footage of the house it doesn't get added to the F calculation tax assessor would be happy to go out there against that was my next question reassess taxes on the additional living spare so then I guess take out any reference to bedroom in here Ed and
report as I understand it the board is comfortable with any interior finishing of the basement or any part of the house provided that and you you don't need an F variance provided you don't have an external separate entrance we don't even need to put that in there because it would meet the definition uh like if somebody I mean you can put it in there if it's an exterior entrance then the basement's C is that they are when you finish it if the board feels more
comtable doing that so you want it as written except taking out the reference to a bedroom yeah just delete the bedroom reference so you could reduce that to one sentence actually right see that may be it John because um you have three or four recommendations the last couple years if you just have one maybe the council will consider
it anyway all this will have to be have to go through Town Council to cify yes we can't do it all this is is a recommendation it's nothing more recomendation so we can discuss it people will discuss it when it comes before oh for sure in a public for I know one board member here will probably be at that council meeting John [Laughter] huh I'll be there is is Ed going to read us a
revised sentence and we're going to view this tonight or well um the board recommends that if the property owner wishes to finish I'm sorry wish to add any additional living space right that's what it is you're allowed to add additional liing space um they can do so I I still think you ought to put a reference into no exterior um a new exterior entrance
because if you got a shot at getting the council to look at it I think you're going to be concerned about that they will be what if there's an existing external then it's counted as F they are well does this application have an external door yeah but they had a big grade one we heard last month did have an yeah it was a walk out yeah it already they on a big grve the change you're recommending here those folks still would have had to come to would a bco door mean then exterior entrance
yeah that seems extreme exterior entrance that seems extreme oh that was a regular there's a door down at the bottom actually there's usually not but okay on I know just STS I go through Council so well get another bite at the are we going to look at a revision of this sure we bring it back next month let's can we just figure it out tonight we got the time we may have
two or three applications on next month and then we won't have we don't have time to do this and I'd rather get those applications done well what if we have a recess and let Ed have time to do it chairwoman if she wants to have a five minute recess Ed and I can work on it but whatever it is it still have to go through councel that's the second fight at the I'd have to get permission from the administration to write the ordinance and then bring it to the yeah yeah so there several stop Gap measures yeah to my mind if they have a bill Cod
door they should still knock down at this F but I mean I I'm not caught up with this external entrance as much as I don't have any issue if it has an exterior entrance or not if it meets the definition of an apartment when they're coming in then I'm not going to approve it so it doesn't really matter whether they have an experience right I I agree with that I think it's Council never listens to us any I'm be out of here in 20 minutes
okay I'll call For Recess okay fast five minutes 10 minutes are we going to get a whole another application or do we need to so the board also recommends that if a property owner wishes to improve their existing
home also recs
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to okay push the button the red one the red one means you're on and why you say yeah all right
um did we decide anything did we get information so the change would be in paragraph four and the second sentence would be revised the board also recommends that if a property owner wishes to improve their existing home by finishing their seller SL basement that that would not require an
F variance or that should not be a part of the F variance calculation and we could add continue provided however that there's no additional exterior entrance I do not recommend that okay so we'll leave that out simple as it is but provided that that finished space should be included in the square footage for tax purposes that's automatically done we don't have to put that in at all
that's that's once a permit once a building permit is issued a copy goes to the tax assessor and they eagerly go out and I but it gets a little weird because then what is the official square footage of the house Susan the official multiple times every time I improve a house what's her face come happily comes out and visit we become good friends and uh she walks through the whole house and looks at everything and and really and
contemplates your patios and your garages and your basements and fkks are knows everywh that's how we found out about that house that paved everything they had the Y that went down like that to the stream and they had the massive retaining walls that cars were parking on and it had never been inspected and that woman was very nasty coming from of the board I actually had to take her to the court to get her to pay her esro money really I'm not surprised that was right off of Edenberg road back in that development
there I've got a question okay so I'm I'm just thinking in terms of real estate when you list your house how many square footage it would show the basement being finished and it would show the sare footage okay so Sam it just it just is within your little office your little world that they did not go over the F although somebody would look at and say this is over the F but then but nobody's hiding any yes okay I got it a question
for Sam in the building code if you build a new house and you have a basement is a separate entrance required for the basement no it's not okay all right so normally when basements are built now there is no separate entrance typically no typically no okay but could they put one in if they wanted to while they're building the house so once they've done that then who's to stop them from finishing off the basement and making it into an
apartment and nobody being the wi when they come there you can do anything you want illegally but how how would you know though because there's 30,000 people live in town and they're unpaid inspectors in informance for me believe you me a neighbor gets a lumber dumped off in their driveway we get the neighbors somebody get the neighbors will R them out yeah John if you're living next to someone and you're noticing a new person coming you're going into basement all the time you're G to call my office yeah so we get carel gets phone calls all the time
all the time yeah so that's the stop G that's that's the enforcement mechanism the Sam what what about if the ceiling in the basement is not is short of 7t if it's shorter than that then the construction department will not issue a permit to allow them to finish the basement okay got it so that's it short of and we're not
going to mention the exterior basement I agree say it's rone we don't need that so you can vote on that does everybody agree all those in favor of the this being added as as Ed Reddit except deleting about is the motion already on the FL I not yet that's what I'm asking I I would happily move the adoption of su court with the revision that Ed just
D I will halfway second it okay motion by John Raiders second and by Carl all in favor say I I any opposed hearing none that motion March what's that March and potentially another application oh okay adjourn motion to adjourn all in favor motion I I bang so keep keep this on hand we will
get a new set but you may want to keep it anyway just in case there's something in here you didn't throw in Again Sam don't forget I'm not here in April
what no was