Good evening, everybody. It is seven o'clock, we are calling the St. Patrick's Day meeting to order, Tuesday, March seventeenth. Um, first on the agenda is public participation on any matter not subject to a public hearing. Anybody have anything they wanna talk about, please come to the mic. Next on the agenda is review and approval of the previous minutes. We have our... I believe we have our C-threes out there. I don't think you do. What? I don't think they're out there.
No, I didn't see them. They're not out there, huh? So, okay. Then we'll move on to public hearings. Um, as I do every meeting, next on the agenda is our public hearings. Today, we have, only zoning, special permits, and site plan approvals. After the applicants present the proposal, board members will begin asking their questions. We will then invite the public to ask questions of fact. We'll have a separate time for the public to speak in favor of or speak against the motions. Uh, when we
recognize you, please come to the microphone, give your name, address, and direct all questions, comments to the board. Purpose of our public hearings is to allow board members to collect evidence and testimony supporting or contradicting the published legal findings we are required to make to approve or deny an application. We cannot act outside the bounds of the zoning ordinance, nor the stormwater ordinance where also sought. Please understand, public hearings are not a community referendum, town meeting. Uh, we ask you to keep comments civil, positive,
remembering we're all neighbors working to move Westfield forward. While you're free to express your opinion, ultimately, legally, the board can only deliberate on the findings of fact, not on yours or our personal opinions. First on the agenda is Pr- Praba Corporation for a special permit for zoning ordinance section three dash one hundred three six to construct a commercial building exceeding fifteen hundred square feet at two eighty-eight Elm Street, zoned core. Is the applicant here?
Yes, sir. Uh, good evening. For the record, I'm Rob Levesque from R. Levesque Associates, here representing Vinnie Shaw for the, proposal before you. Um, this is the convenience store gas station that's located directly adjacent to Pasquale's Pizza. Mr., Pasquale, Mr., Pasquale from Pasquale's Pizza is here. Um, he's, also, a concerned landowner that lives next door. We worked out, some easement work with them, so he's
here and probably has some questions as well. But we had gone through the Zoning Board of Appeals recently for a site plan approval. Um, because this is a preexisting non-conforming use within the core district, we were, directed to the ZBA first. Um, this is, I believe, a special permit related to the building size in the core. Anything over... Is it, is it about- Fifteen hundred ... fifteen hundred square feet, has to go before the planning board for a special permit. So the site plan, again, has already been approved by the ZBA.
Um, just to kinda orient you to what's going on on the site plan, we have-- Actually, I don't know if we wanna do it up here. Thank you. Um, so this is Pasquale's Pizza here. The current location of the convenience store associated with the gas station, which is, you know, drastically undersized at this point given theUh, standard, convenience stores is located here. This is the pump island and the canopy. That will remain the same. Um, we have a proposed twenty-four hundred
con- square foot convenience store. So we're basically taking the convenience store from here, shifting it back so it's consistent with the, kinda the front of the Pasquali's building. We have a twenty-four hundred square foot building with a, a very small drive-through access around the back, eight parking spaces in front. Um, as part of the easement and part of the, the general, egress and, ingress and egress from, the Orange Street as well as from Elm, there's this, access point, two-way access
around the, the, current, tanks are located right here. Uh, we have a little bit of parking area that will end up being utilized by Pasquali's, maybe slightly reconfigured in the future. But generally speaking, their dumpsters and whatnot that were over here, are gonna be reconfigured, and this dumpster location is arguably for the convenience store. There's a couple other employee parking spaces back there, but that's the gist of it. In your, in your, again, site plan approval
has already been processed, but in your, packet, there is a couple renderings of two different style buildings that they were considering, both, retail in nature. Uh, the top view is essentially what they're thinking. They could expect a, you know, a, stucco type of building, maybe some sort of materials that would kinda fit in with downtown, color scheme, based on, you know, the gas station itself, likely a parapet wall and maybe a little, pronounced tower, so to speak, right near the, the entry
of the building. So, there's two examples that are very similar in nature. Um, we'd be happy to come back before the board if they so chose, as the architecturals get, formalized and submitted. You know, prior to submission to, for a building permit, we would certainly be happy to do that. We know that the core district is important. Uh, given the use being a gas station, we know it's not, you know, it's, it's a little bit of a square peg in a round hole. Um, but obviously an existing viable building that will be made more, more viable in downtown,
by, you know, allowing them to, reconfigure and expand. So I think that was the general gist of how the zoning board of appeals, made their decision, which was a unanimous decision in favor of the proposed site plan. So be happy to answer any questions the planning board has, but I think we're here this evening for the building generally, being over fifteen hundred square feet, which is twenty-four hundred square feet total. Rob, can you tell me, how
wide... It looks like there's a, an in and an out right of way between the two buildings. Can you tell me the width of those or what page it's on? 'Cause it looks like it goes over the existing gas tanks. Is that standard practice? Yeah, it does. Yep, those are, there, there's been travel over those gas tanks for, for years, so that wouldn't change. There's a curb cut here. Um, the width of that, that curb cut is probably about thirty and change feet. Um, all other curb cuts that are being either eliminated or redefined are at twenty-four feet, so
the typical two-way. But that, that particular curb cut is, is a little bit wider and is, is going to be maintained as such. Um, there is also access kinda through to the Pasquali's, building as well. So the width between the two buildings, is that a, s-- like an in and an out, or is it one? Two-way. Okay. Yep. So what's the w- what's the dimensions of that? Um, at least twenty-four feet. Uh, I don't have a specific dimension. Each way or total? Total. Yeah. Which is standard, you know,
aisle width. Okay. It, it looks, it looks like, Pasquali's is, is, changing their, the door or entrance door for pickups, for the pizza pickups. Um, w- the question I have is where will those folks... It looks like that drive-through's part of that. Where are those folks gonna park now that, when they need to pick up pizza? Right here. That's all associated with Pasquali's. Oh, yeah. All right. Yep. So that's part of... All right, I gotcha now.
I didn't hear the answer, sorry. Um, in the, I guess that's the northwest corner of the property. So Pasquali's pickup area is here. You've been there. Um, so the, the idea was they have a door here. They would add, I guess they're, they're contemplating adding a door here and then having access to all these spaces here. Which are on the applicant's land. Correct. They have a, they have an, an access. They have a cross, you know, reciprocal easement that they've, they've worked out, which actually existed in some way, shape, or
form prior to the more recent agreement. Um, and it took them some time to figure that out, and they have figured that out. Did you say there will be no changes to the gas pumps? That is correct.And canopy, other than, maybe some labeling- Got it ... you know, that type of thing. Branding. Which will have to adhere to the sign stuff. Did you say we have elevations of the building or no? We do. Um, they're kind of, typical,
but- There's a few examples, but they're all pretty similar. But if- if anybody ... I don't have a copy. I thought you had them to share. It should be in your application. Anybody else need a copy? You should have it on the, on the share drive. Oh, okay. There's no specific proposal, so these are just various concepts, I guess. Yeah, typical retail-looking buildings. Oh, I got it. You want this?
So before you, it's really just the building. The ZBA did, I guess, most of the heavy lifting on this project. Um, so I guess that would be your, your focus. The board can decide if you want to see the actual, what is actually gonna be proposed or built there before you make a decision, or if you're comfortable with, these various different concepts. I'll note the, ZBA decision is on your share drive as well, just for reference.
Did you say that the, those tanks are gonna be moved or are they gonna l- The- The tanks themselves are gonna stay right where they are? They're, they're where they are. They're gonna stay where they are, yep. So they're still gonna be underneath the driveway? Yes, sir. Yep. Are you... All of these buildings look pretty much the same to me. Is there a economics to this type of building that we don't know about, as
opposed to a building like, the Big Y building that-- Big Y Express or something like that, that has a diff-- slightly different feel to it? Um, I've, so I'm thinking of the Big Y Express has, some, some faux stone at the base of it, maybe clapboard. Um, I think they have a standing seam roof, if I'm, if I remember correctly. Yeah, it could be. Um, so, and the gabled roof, um- Yes, it has a gable. Most... Yeah, so I think they have a gabled roof. Um, so I would assume, you know, I think there's fire suppression requirements,
if, in the roof if they're, if it's over a certain size. I don't know that this convenience store would require fire suppression because of the size. It's small enough that I don't think it would- They're, they're not, they're not that far off. If I remember, if I remember, it's about twenty-two hundred square feet. This is about twenty-four hundred square feet. They're a similar size. Yeah. Um- So I, I'm just- We have Google Earth. We could look at it. I could, I could share it with the applicant to see what their thoughts would be on something like that. Are you familiar? I'm aware. Okay. Um, so, there's a Big Y Express, which is a gas
station on East Main Street in Westfield. We're just gonna pull that up, so maybe we-- they could, you know, look at how that-- like something similar to that and look at the economics of the difference in building potentially create. Um... Y-y-and for the record, that's just, it's my opinion. No, I understand. Yeah, yeah. But it's fair. I'm just, I'm just looking. To me, I look at these buildings, and they're all the same to me. Yeah. Canopies in the way. The building with the standing seam versus the flat roof, is that what you're referring
to? I mean, I, personally I don't think a gable roof is appropriate downtown. Okay. But that's just my opinion. I, I, yeah, I generally agree that, you know, in an urban setting, it's more, you know, maybe the incorporation of materials or something. The glazing in front is pretty standard for a- Mm-hmm ... convenience store. On the sides, they typically won't have coolers and racking inside, so- Mm-hmm ... you know, the, the glazing in front kinda makes sense. The, you know, the pronounced roof allows for signage. But certainly, you know, materials or other-
Okay ... would, you know, would be considered for sure. Okay. To that point, just like this, the, the pumps block the building for the most part anyways. Yeah. How big you say it, Phil? Twenty-two hundred square feet. Just under twenty-two. So about the same, yeah. Yeah, it's about the same. I think ours were gonna be a little longer and not quite as deep, but yeah, about the same. Rob, there's mention on the application about a drive-through. Yes, sir. What are you-- What's thePlans for drive-through on the
front side queuing. Yeah. Um, so the access window would be here. The order kiosk would be here. Again, it's a, you know, it's not your typical... I mean, this is probably not gonna be suitable for a, 7 Brew or something like that. You know, those types of, you know- Yeah ... long double-stacking type of thing. This is probably a very, you know, um... Won't be the primary use of the building. What, what's the product that they're driving through for?
Uh, we don't-- It's on spec completely. So it could either be a product of theirs that they sell, or it could be a tenant of theirs, a small tenant. Um, but that's, that is, there's no, there's no... Am, am I correct in understanding there's no tenant as of yet for the- No. They, they do not have a tenant for that. Under new- So- Are, are you planning on partitioning it, so it'll have multiple tenants or just- Potentially, it would be, the convenience store and a, a tenant. Correct. Small. Something like a Dunkin' Donuts or a Starbucks. Is that what you're talking about or- Yeah, I don't know how well that would function, to be honest with you, just be
given the size of the site. So the site-- So the s- the... Just to clarify, the drive-through has already been approved by the ZBA. I think, so, you know, just s- But that said, yeah, it, it's not a, it's not a long, long stacking. Right. There's- I- There's, there's six stacking spaces to here, and then they could stack out a little bit. But- That's what I was talking about. Yeah ... it's gonna be important who they, from a functionality standpoint, who they secure as a tenant- That's my point ... to make sure it's not, you know, a very heavy drive-through user. But, but no disrespect,
the ZBA didn't-- I'm sure the ZBA didn't put any conditions on how long the stack can be. Correct. So it's- There's no requirements, under the City of West. There's various-- We met the requirements out of the city. Right. So if 7 Brew comes in and, and pays him a boatload of money, okay, they could end up with a very long stacked line there. Their, their proto-- I... No, it was a bad example. I know their prototype. It's not-- It's-- It wouldn't fit here. Right. Yeah. But there's nothing to restrict it to... Yeah. Other than- The size. The size. The function. The function and the size.
I think we have to be realistic with what could go there. I think the owner has to be realistic with what could go there. So the, the city has a, I think it's ten-car stacking requirement, so it meets that. So your, your client- It meets ten? I'm sorry. Oh, no. Go ahead. It meets ten, you said, Jay? Yeah. It wrap- it wraps around. So the, it's, yeah, the term and, you know, goes around the whole building. Does your client have any ideas of the type of little business that he'd like to be in there to utilize that drive-through? Are we talking about a sandwich?
Are we talking about coffees? Are we talking about... I think they're unrestricted technically, so I guess it could be all of the above or any of the above. I would think he'd have something in mind before proposing it and, you know- Well, you know- ... agreeing to the additional expense of it. Yeah. So, it could be coffee. Could-- I guess it could be quick service, some small, you know, Quiznos type of places or, you know, a, a grinder shop or something like that. It's kind of a, "If they build it-- If I build it, they will come"
scenario. We, like-- We hope-- I think he hopes so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but again, it's a, you know, it's a functional thing. We wanna make sure that, you know, it works. Or they won't be there very long. So where, where do we start counting the stacking? Because if the ordering's done on the top right corner and the person on the register is not very sharp, they're backing up into the right of way, which affects the pizza place. We only have sharp people at the register. Yeah. It's, you know, it meets the requirements from a stacking standpoint.
Again, that is, that ship has sailed. Well, w-where does the stacking start? Up from the window. From the window, around the corner to the order kiosk, and then continues. To your point, they may be- Right ... backing into that right of way. So how far is-- Where does ten cars end up? I believe it's six to here, seven, eight, ten, maybe, maybe- So- ... right about here ... into the right of way- Mm ... which affects Pasquale's business. Nope. That is an easement. And so it's an ea-- It's a
reciprocal easement for both on the subject property, and it's an, an easement. Pa-Pasquale's business is takeout here. Well, at least takeout currently, right? I hope he opens the, the, uh- No, it is takeout. I know this ... dining room. So that easement isn't necessarily for traffic to go through to get out of the property. What is the easement for? I mean- The easement is for to pass and repass. 'Cause if I was-- From where I live, if I was going to pass the go-- Pasquale's-
There's an easement here too. There's- So there's an easement that cuts through. Right. Yeah. But you can't get out that way. You can only get out on the Orange Street side. No, you can get out both ways. I'm sorry? So you-- There's an exit- There's two lines ... entry and exit here. Right. And then there's an entry and exit here. Okay. And also an entry and exit here. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yep. And these all generally exist. We're shifting this one. They should make it. But this one exists. That's kinda where people come in now from Orange. Okay. Um, same general, like off by a foot or two, but, and then
this exists. Is there gonna be any paving of the site? I know right now it's kind of a tough- Repa-- Yeah, repair, and likely when they, you know, if they're bringing any different, you know, utilities, et cetera. So yeah. So they'll, they'll repa- they'll repave the whole thing or just patch it? Um, right now, I would say they're at least going to be patching and then potentially re-- milling and repaving. At least the top. Oh, 'cause right now it's kind of a tough- Yes ... area to drive through. Yep. I would hope they would repave the whole thing.
I would exp- I would expect that would make sense. Yeah. But, technically there is existing asphalt. They could, you know... You'd hate to make it Swiss cheese and then- Right ... not fix it. Is there a bike rack? I don't know. Uh, we might have one. It, it is a neighborhood. There is a neighborhood behind there. I can anticipate young kids coming down, riding down. It's a convenience store. Yeah, I don't see one. Jay, how did that pass? How did that slip? Well, that's a ZBA.
Ah. Not this board. Those guys. Can we get one installed? Yeah. Where would be a good place for it? Where would you place it if you... Hmm. I'm just looking at the front of the bui- probably the side of the building or in the rear somewhere. So if this building was fifteen hundred square feet, there'd be room to get around it without going into the, right of way, right? Um, if it was fifteen hundred square feet, it wouldn't be viable for a co-
convenience store. I mean, it's pretty tight. Remember, you have to get, you know, you need coolers, you need racking, you need to get in between the, the racking. Um, you need, uh- How big is it right now? Twenty-four hundred. No, how big is the existing- Oh. Very small. Um, square footage on there. I don't think I have the square footage, but I'm gonna say... Do you know, Finn? Eight hundred or six hundred? Four, four hundred.
Four hundred. Four fifty. Four fifty. But it's kinda the old, you know, it's not really a commu-- you know, it was a little gas station with, you know- Mm-hmm ... a little tight. So the gas station now and the pumps and everything, that's not going to be touched. Correct. That's staying right where it is, and the equipment that's there is staying there. Yep, all the pump islands, the access to those, all that, the tanks, that's all gonna stay the same. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Rob, if we were to vote no on this, what would happen? Would he come back for fifteen hundred?
Well, if I thought you were gonna vote no, I would likely, to be transparent, I would likely request to withdraw the application without prejudice so that we could come back and address any concerns you had. Um, I don't know how, allowing a fifteen hundred square foot building in a, versus a twenty-four hundred square foot building really helps the city. Um, it just hurts the applicant in this particular case because they wouldn't be able to accommodate a, you know, as viable as a sto-- of a store. Um, they
already have approval to do the project, I guess, at fifteen hundred, so they would have to decide whether that was worth doing. Um, but it doesn't seem to be helpful. I don't know what it does unless you're trying to kill the project. I, I honestly struggle with ten cars being in the right of way that affects a different business. It's a, it's a legal matter that has been addressed through the, the, the attorneys for both, both local attorneys.
I think it was Raison Curt and Brad- Bradford Moyer. Um, so that's already been addressed. They have the ability and the rights to do this site plan. Um, so, you know, you know, it's, each, each owner can certainly make their case for whatever their con- continued concerns might be, but this is what was worked out, and this meets all the requirements and has been approved. So it's not really the subject of the building itself. You're, I think you're translating building concerns onto the site plan approval, which has already been
granted. I have, I have a question. What are Pastralia's hours? I don't know off the top of my head. They open at noon, they open at four. Or eleven? Well, you- We open at eleven. They open- Eleven to nine. Eleven to nine. So that right of way wouldn't affect them until they open. So if it was a morning crowd with coffee and things like that, that wouldn't affect that, if I'm thinking correctly. I think that's accurate, but we don't know that it- We don't know ... would definitely be a, a morning use.
Right. I think most small uses like that would be a morning use, but, you know- Yeah ... it could be, could be a sub shop. It could be a sub shop. I know that, you know, even Five Guys, who seems, I really like Five Guys, but seems to be the slowest drive-through ever. Yeah. Um, they even have a drive-through, so you never know. And the drive-through hours would be the same as the store hours. Not necessarily. And the store hours are proposed as? Typical store hours. Typically, normally six to ten or maybe eleven.
C-can you come to the microphone and at least- I'm sorry ... name and address, please. In any convenience or gas station, normal business hours are six to ten or s- maybe six to eleven. Or six to eleven. Okay, thank you. All right, thank you. So I would wager to guess that when council adopted this fifteen hundred square foot review by this board for downtown buildings, was obviously for look at the character of it, how it maybe fit in with the streetscape and architecture of the
downtown. Um, so that's probably where you should keep your, your focus. Again, the ZBA's already done most of these approval-- most of the approval for this project. Um, it's a little hard when we don't actually have the actual building that's being proposed, so maybe that's something the board needs to wait to see. Um, but... Does anybody know the approximate square footage in Pasquali's? Well, to give-- Jane, to give a little perspective- About the same. That's what I'm saying. It's, it's not bigger than that. Jane, to give a little perspective,
the, East Main Street Big Y Express is about twenty-two hundred square feet. That's about... The Mobil station on Southampton Road across from the cemetery- Right ... is thirty-five hundred square feet. Okay. And the Cumberland Farms up at the corner of, ten two oh two on North Road is twenty-eight hundred square feet. Okay. Thank you. That does give me some perspective. Yeah. Um, a-a-again, I, I would... Square footage doesn't, and I can tell you what Pasquali's is in a minute.
Uh, thirty-one oh eight. Thirty-one oh eight. So this is gonna be smaller than that. It'll be smaller than that. Um, I, I don't like the drive-through, but I can't do anything about it, okay? I'm not adverse against the size. I, I just would like to see what the building's gonna look like. How tall, Rob? Any idea? Um, it can go up to six stories. No, just kidding. Oh, perfect. Uh, I forget. I think the CORE has something crazy like that. Um, I would venture a guess that it would
probably be-- It's, it's one story, but then there's a par-- typically a parapet wall. So if you said maybe twelve, maybe, maybe, maybe fift- fourteen, fifteen, sixteen feet, something like that, max, where, you know, where the tower comes down, and then- Yeah, like twelve feet. I figured if they had twelve-foot ceilings, that would, that would be- It wouldn't be higher than that then, would it? Sixteen max. Sixteen. Rough on top. It's sixteen? Um, I would say not- Yeah, it says in here fourteen. That's why I'm... Well, so the- The applicant ... I would expect, you know, depending on where they measure the roof, but that,
that-- if there's the signage- With the sign ... with a parapet to kinda back the backdrop for the sign, it would probably be higher. Okay. So incidentally, the CORE has a thirty-five foot minimum height, requirement. But again, this is increasing in the height from the current much shorter building. So it's-- the ZBA found it, it would be becoming more or less non-conforming even though it's under thirty-five feet. Okay.
Anybody in the public wanna speak? I guess technically we should be asking questions of fact. My concern about this project is- Uh, name, name, and address, please. Uh, my name is, Pasquali Cardenuto, two seventy-eight Elm Street, Westfield, Mass. Okay. My concern about this project is that the easements and ten-car stack, bypa-- I don't know how this drive-up was approved. Mostly, they have by-bypass lanes, meaning if a customer is at the
window, the one in back who decides he wants to leave, they gotta able to get out. I don't know... If the building is a thousand five hundred square feet, I think it'll fit. If it's a two thousand four hundred square feet, it will not fit for a drive-up, for a drive-up. It will infringe on the easement. Can we- Go ahead. Can we get a little, you know, explanation on the easement and how that works? You, you can...
I'm a little, skeptical about that because I know- I am, too ... of two other instances- I am, too. Yeah. I'm skeptical about it, too. Two other instances where adjoining businesses shared parking, shared driveways, and they had easements, supposedly, and suddenly one of the owners put up a fence, and that... I, I can think of two instances where that happened, and this, i- this is, like, very congested now, and if there's not, like, 100% cooperation down the line, it's not gonna work.
It's not gonna go. And if I understand this right, these are the two parties here. Yes. And if they don't agree at this point... I agree with the drive-up, as long as it fits in here and the way it's supposed to be. We're looking for an explanation on the easement, how it works. Rob? So, our firm had also done the easement,
with the benefit of the attorneys and the proponents for not only Pasq- Mr. Pasqual- or Pasquali, as well as, Vinnie. So there was an easement that was poorly described by Phil Smith Sr., so not Chip, but Chip's father back in the day, and they kind of described it generally, and it was coming off of Orange Street, and it was access to the, across the back of the property owned by Mr. Shaw, and it, it needed to be
redefined. So there was concerns and I think, you know, pending litigation between the two parties. Um, between Ray Zinkert and Brad Moyer, they, came up with an agreement and memorialized a new easement, which includes access off of, Orange Street in a more direct route as opposed to the direction that was originally proposed, as well as an easement which actually doesn't include all of our drive aisle. Why the attorneys wanted to do it this way doesn't make sense to me,
but they told us what they wanted. Um, they have this access strip here, which really doesn't restrict anybody from using the drive aisle. The reality is, as things get create... You know, functionally, they're gonna be able to drive, people are gonna drive this way in this lane, and this way in this lane. It's, it's more than two lanes wide down here, and it's at least two, two lanes wide here. So how it will function is, is generally people will have the right to pass and repass. We have all the turning movements met to come off of Orange Street, get into the
site, get out to Elm, come in from Elm, get out to Orange. And frankly, there's no restrictions for anybody from Pasquali's use currently or in future or anybody else in the general public for that matter to go in and out of these pumps, buy gas, go to the convenience store, get whatever they're getting, and then come all the way back through here. So everyone has the, the right to get to Pasquali's, takeout, if he decides to open the restaurant in the future. There is other parking over here. There's this parking for the takeout. There's the whole other side of the building.
So, you know, ar-arguably, everybody should be able to function. I'm not speaking for either one of these folks other than explaining the site plan, so if there's any questions or concerns with how that functions, certainly I'll let them speak to that. But from my standpoint, you can get around everything. There's no substandard access. There's no substandard requirements. All the work that's being done is on the physical fee interest-owned property by Vinnie with easement rights to Pasquali.
Did I explain that? So the, the, I know eight or ten parking places in the back- Yes ... are those for Pasquali's parking? That's correct. But they're on the other party's property. Correct, but it was part of the agreement, and those are included. So what if somebody comes out of Pasquali's and falls down in that parking lot? What's the problem with that? It's all handled, it's all handled in their agreement. So- I'm sorry? It's all handled in their agreement. Uh, as far as insurance, liability, et cetera- Mm-hmm ... that's all, you know, that, that's handled in their agreement. That's- Question. Somebody comes in from that second entrance
on Orange Street and wants to, yeah, and wants to go to the drive-up, where, what would his route be to get to that drive-up? You can't re- you can't really effectively get to the drive up without turning around. Right. They'd have to turn back and then- Right ... turn around to get, to get to this. And how can that be prevented? 'Cause I think- Well, they have that other entrance there right on Orange Street. Isn't that one still, the lower one? The lower one. That- Yeah. That's still there. Yeah, so you could go- So if you're coming down Orange Street, you could take a left there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If you don't know that other entrance is there- You'll, you'll- But if you didn't- Yeah. Yeah. If you're a first-timer, you could end up having to do a three-point turn.
Right. Um, is there a way to prevent that? Not really. Not, you can't make that, like, um- I mean, given the size and the geometry of this site, not really. Truthfully, not really. I mean, I mean, I guess you could put some signage up, that would, that would help the first-timers, but otherwise, yeah, I mean, I would think more- I mean, if there's no stacking there, you could just swing around, but if you've got stacking, you're gonna have to go around the front of Pasquali's to get there. Well, this is, this is Vinnie's. So the property line is here. Right
The easement is here, right? Right. So, yeah, which they both have the right to utilize. I mean, it's- Right ...it's for access. But yeah. That to me is a little bit of a problem. I mean, most people that are regulars are going to know that and go in the right entrance, but you're gonna get somebody like me who hasn't been there, getting in there and not knowing where to go and maybe causing a problem. Yeah. So the easements themselves, I don't think have any effect on the site, the function of the site. Um, you know,
it's more about the owners feeling like they had the correct access and protections they needed to get in and out of their sites and func- have their buildings function, which I believe this has met what... You know, we had a similar sketch in the easement, you know, in terms of how this area would work. Um, obviously, if there's, you know, reconfiguration that they decide to do, they can always decide to do that at a future date, and if they have to amend the easement. So the-- tonight's not the sub- the easement is not the subject. It doesn't change the function of the site.
Again, the site plan has already been approved with the drive-through and the access aisles. So tonight we're technically here for the building itself, the twenty-four hundred square foot building, and we wouldn't be here if it, if we didn't-- if we had a, a thousand less square feet. But that makes the convenience store, which is frankly, much more viable at that space. That's really why we're here this evening. That's the subject of what we're talking about. I mean, not to say you can't ask questions, but it's already-- obviously the ship has sailed. Well, I'm not concerned that that's ca-called an easement or if it's called a
driveway or what. It still, can, has the potential to be awkward if somebody is coming in there to go to, you know, the drive-up. Even if they wanna go to the, convenience store, and they try to get through there, and cars are coming the other way, and he's going that way because it's the drive-up is backed up. So he wants to come down, somebody wants to go that way. If there was just some way to direct traffic in there. And that's really not concerning the easement, it's just the flow
through the site that I think is a little bit awkward. Um, Jay, can I ask a question? Just wanna confirm our role here. Our role here is to determine whether we feel fifteen hundred square feet is appropriate, sixteen hundred, eighteen hundred, twenty-one hundred, twenty-four hundred is appropriate given the site plan that's been approved by the ZBA. Is that correct? Well, I mean, your-- because this building is over fifteen hundred- Mm-hmm ...your role is to react to what they're proposing.
Right. So what's pr-- before it was twenty-four hundred. Um, and again, I, I don't, I don't think the intent of council was that it's a matter of determining what square footage is appropriate, but that- Each one or- ...fifteen hundred seems like a big enough downtown development that it warrants this review. Mm. I'm guessing that's-- was the intent. Well, I think the size of the building is, is, speaks to my issue because if the building wasn't that size, there would be more room there. That's all I'm trying to say. I mean, in, in planner's world, we'd want the biggest, tallest buildings you can get
downtown. So that's where we want the density and commerce and everything focused. Uh, again, this is a use that wouldn't normally-- wouldn't be allowed today if this were a vacant site. You know, it's more of, appropriate on East Main Street or in a more, highway type of location. So I guess, you know, it's considering the non-conformity-- non-conforming use of it, how does it fit in? I have a question. Yeah, the, the ordering kiosks, Rob-
Yeah ...um, is on the corner of the building. So if there's just one person at that, ordering station and one other car, then it becomes a one-way driveway. If they block the eastbound lane, yes. I'm sorry? If they block the eastbound lane, yeah. Well, I mean, if, if there's one car parked at that window- Right ...and another one behind it- No, I agree. Yeah ...it's a one-way street. Correct. Yeah. But what if there's five?
No, I, I completely agree. I don't-- like I said, I, I, I don't-- I mean, to be fair, I don't know that the- Mm-hmm ...the drive-through is, is the most viable drive-through ever. It certainly would ne-- like I said, it needs to-- Vin, Vin needs to be realistic about what could potentially go there. If it's something that doesn't necessarily require all those stacking spaces, the order kiosk could be moved up. Mm-hmm. Um, but again-- Yeah, no, I, I don't, I don't disagree. It's, it's definitely a tricky drive-through site.
I mean, the kiosk could be moved to the north side maybe. That would make it worse. I know. It could-- Well, if we moved it to the north side, then it would be in the lane, the other lane would be in conflict. But, I think if anything, you know, if it was try-- you know, if the kiosk was moved this way on the building providing a couple... But again, even then, I mean, three stacking spaces isn't a lot. This is not a, you know, a-I, I can tell you, to be completely transparent, we have sites in Agawam where we have twenty spaces, and in the morning for certain uses, Dunkin' Donuts, et
cetera, you know, you've seen them. Build it, and they will come, really. Mm. So this is, this is a very specific, you know, drive-through, and that will have to have a very specific tenant. So how would this function for your client without the drive-through? Just the- Well, they would lose a potential tenant- Tenant ... which is, is, which is revenue, which certainly factors into the ability to be able to do the upgrades in the store. Um, I don't know. Vin, do you wanna speak to that specifically about, you know, kind of the viability and the financial viability? Well, my name is Vinny. I'm the
shareholder. And in today's world, I mean, the industry, gas station, convenience store industry is whole lot different than what it used to be like thirty, forty, fifty years ago. Just simply getting cigarette, tobacco, and gas is not going to help us much. And fifteen hundred square feet is kind of, you know, it will eat up kind of... If we have our own drive-through, even we might go for our own Dunkin' type of... We are talking to basically Honey Dew franchise.
Right. And we might bring in that one also. So in today's world, we have to have different revenue streams to make it work and to make it viable. I'm, I'm thinking of the, the gas station convenience store on Southwick Road right over the bridge that has a Dunkin' Donuts in it, but they don't have a drive-up. And I go there sometimes, and they seem to be pretty busy. People don't seem to mind getting out of the car and walking in to get their coffee or their bagel or whatever.
So I don't know if maybe you still could have a tenant in there without having a drive-up. That's it. No, we are talking to a couple of people, but not necessarily we will finalize with them. Right. But in our own interest, we are going to have-- we request to have, you know, drive-through. Would you sell convenience goods out of the store if you didn't get- Not ne- Yeah, maybe, yeah. Depending on whatever kind of food franchise, we might bring in some kind of food franchise as well. Okay. So takeout or whatever, we might consider.
Yeah, I think there's both a Dunkin' Donuts and a Subway in the, in that one I'm, I'm thinking of on Southwick Road. You mean just on like College, College Highway? Co- Uh, yes, College Highway. It turns into Southwick Road right there at the beginning. There is, there is a drive-through there. There is? Yeah. In the front. Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen it. It's around the back. Oh. So if I sit in the back- It goes around the back. And I always go inside. I never go in there. Guess what? You don't have to get out anymore. You know. Yeah, that's right. Just kidding. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, you're right. No, there is, there is a- Yeah ... there is a drive-through there. Yep. Yeah. You're talking about the, it's like a gas station- Yeah. Yeah ... and there's like a car wash-
Yes ... right behind it. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And then there's a Subway in there too. Yeah. That is, that is a drive-through. But Subway is not, doesn't have the drive-up. It's just the Dunkin' Donuts. Subway is just a walk-in. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. My mistake. I have been to Dunkins where they are walk-ins, but they're f- almost never done. And then this isn't necessarily a D- You know, I don't-- You haven't been talking to Dunkin'. This is not a Dunkin' Don- No. No ... no. No. So I'm gonna say this as best I can. Um, Pasquale can't move his building. Um, there's two lanes
right in and out in between the buildings. Mm-hmm. I-- Drive-throughs are typically one way, so it seems to me there thir- should be a third lane that is exclusively for the drive-through that doesn't block traffic, which would require moving the building or making it smaller. My opinion. How wide are each one of those lanes again? Typically about ten to twelve feet for a drive-through lane.
We have fifteen, fifteen in back, which is because of the curve around the building is a little... And then we have about twelve and a half on the side. Rob. Oh. Yeah, I know. Originally, we proposed a forty-eight by fifty-four site building, which was leaving enough space, and that square footage has come to two five nine two, two thousand five hundred and ninety-two square feet. Five. Okay. Forty-eight by fifty-four. Fifty-four lengthwise and forty-eight. So that would have given more room,
whatever that concern is, right? Forty-eight by fifty-four. So we are currently thirty by eighty. Yeah. So that building would have been a little longer. Right. But what it would have done is eliminated the island or the drive-through lane in the back to get out. This lane. Yeah. See, we're impacting this lane. Still, there was enough room, no? No. I think this would have... I don't think so. You had a con- In the original sketch, you had a concept there, but I can... I'll explain it. Yeah. Okay.
How much, how much square feet were you talking? Way bigger. If you were to do it? I'm sorry? If, if you were to have-- If you were to build the building that you just mentioned, how many square feet was it? It was two thousand five hundred and ninety-two. Forty-eight by fifty- So it'd be a hundred, it'd be a hundred feet, hundred and fifty feet bigger. But it's- Yes ... not as wide. Right. But longer, not wide enough. Right. To clarify, it killed the drive-through. Right. Because it takes up that drive-through lane. 'Cause right now we're only 30, so you grab another... Whatever the dimension was he said, it basically eats the drive-through lane in the
back. So if you were to give up 10 feet on the side of the building, would that kill the project? That's th- that's 300 square feet. No, but it's not gonna give you the other lane that John's talking about either. That's right. Well, that's what I was gonna ask. What do you need for a third lane? We basically, we have- Uh, well, first of all, you would... Yeah, so good question. So right now, let's say we had five feet here. I would need at least probably three feet for an island, another ten feet, then you're trying to get around the corner, and it would be very tricky to make work, and you got the canopy, you'd be kind of coming in front of
the canopy. This is, this is where the access lane is now. I would... I don't-- I'm not, I'm not overly confident that that's gonna solve it by, by truncating the building. So if we're thirty feet deep... You have this one. Mm-hmm. To here. To here. You go in there deeper, you got those bent hooks. Yeah, but see, the idea of the drive-through lane going in the opposite way. John, would making it one way around the back of the building solve the
issue? It is one way around. The drive-through you mean? No it isn't. You got coming, you got coming and going. If you made it so in the front of the building, you can go side to side, in and out. But the minute you hit the side of the building by the drive-through, it becomes one way out onto, Orange Street. So if you wanna come into the building from Orange, you have to come all the way to the front to come into the, into the property. But if you're in the property, you can exit out onto Orange
Street. Surely, I mean, ideally, giving up ten feet on the building would be, from our pers- perspective, the easiest solution. But Rob's gotta make it work next. But you need, you need at least fifteen, right, to do that? I would need at least fifteen, and then if I'm at eighty minus fifteen, I might as well just make it fifteen hundred and you know, it's like, I don't know. It just gets, gets pretty small.
And then I'm going back to ZBA to amend my permit that I already have. I don't think tonight is about the site plan. Well, it's about the size of the building. Agreed, and it seems like you wanna use that to change the site plan. Well, the size of the building unfortunately affects the site plan and, and the flow of traffic, and everything else in the site is affected by the building. I mean, if the building doesn't affect that, make it three thousand square feet.
If, if you understand what I'm saying, the size of the building, does affect the site plan. It's about the size of the building, but it's how the size of the building affects the site. Okay. I g- I, I hear you. Go ahead. One more thing. Um, the... You know, because the new building is bigger and further back, the, the traffic r- now is pretty much a free-for-all. You know, you go wherever you want.
The n- no lanes are marked or anything. Um, but when th- those buildings become closer together, you create that two-way channel between the buildings. And Pasquale's restaurant, as far as I know, like the dining room part is closed at this time. But if they ever open again, which I'm sure they will, the, the main door is right adjacent to the driveway. Which is part of the easement. Hmm? Which is part of-- has been worked out.
Their access, all of that has been worked out between the attorneys. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna request to withdraw without prejudice. I feel like we are mixing and matching the requests. There's a request for you, before you for the building size. I think we need to do some more work, come back. I'm not hearing from the board that they have any interest in the building. It's all about the site. And my concern is that a decision will be made tonight that we would have to appeal. I'd prefer to withdraw right now without
prejudice, work on some details, maybe communicate with the planner, talk to my client, and, and then come back. Um, either that or continue it. Um, but I am concerned with the, with the procedure and how this is taking shape. And maybe we can do a little bit more research on the core district and how, you know, where, you know, what procedure we're supposed to be following, because it does seem to me that we're talking about a site plan approval here and not a building size. Respectfully, and I understand why. That's what you guys do.
And, and I guess my question to you would be- Do you wanna withdraw or do you want to continue and go back and talk to- I certainly... If the, if the, if the planning board is willing to allow us to continue and not make a decision tonight, then we would certainly respectfully request a continuance. Um, if you felt like you were pushing to, for a no vote tonight, we would reques- we would request to withdraw without prejudice. We're certainly happy to go back to the drawing board. But it, I would... As you can see- Yeah ... communicating with my client on the floor about old plans that we've seen and
stuff- Mm ... just, you know, it's not fair to you guys, it's not fair to us. So I just, procedurally, I think it probably makes sense to buy us some time. Uh, we will certainly do our homework. We're, you know... Y- your, your, your concerns and questions are legitimate, and this is really what you guys do, right? As opposed to architectural review. So it's kinda this misnomer where we're here for the building, or mis- you know, it's a misprocedure, whatever it is. So maybe we can kinda clarify, you know, with Jay before the next meeting. You gave us a couple weeks. We could decide within that time whether a 1,500 square foot building works
for, for Vinnie, which would also potentially improve conditions. Um, or if it doesn't, figure out a solution that hopefully would be more palatable and comfortable to the planning board so that, we can address those. Because tonight we were thinking we were talking about the building, and certainly we're rehashing something where he already has a valid permit- Mm-hmm ... to go forward and do, and obviously that's, you know, we're kinda... You know, from a client standpoint, we're taking a step backwards. So I would respectfully request a continuance if the board's- Jay ... willing to do that.
Can we grant a continuance, and should the applicant request withdrawal without prejudice, just vote on it next meeting? I mean, you can do a continuance, and then at any time they can also subsequently request a withdrawal. Does that sound agreeable? Yeah. Yep. Is the next one the 7th? April 7. Does that sound agreeable to you? That would be great. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So- Yeah, I think we need some time to regroup. Yeah. I- I'd like to- The- ... see a continuance and, and, and see what you come up with.
Right. I know. So I'll make a motion to accept the continuance till the seventh of, of April for... What is this? 288 Elm Street? Yes. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Can, can I just note, so the time on that continuance may not be 7:00, depending on our next agenda items. Yeah. So, um. Yeah. We might wanna sit through that one. The time of that hearing will be confirmed. You know what? Are you every two weeks? Excuse me? Are you guys every two weeks?
Yes. Yeah. Could we request a continu- First and third ... continuance for the meeting after? You want to go one, one- I know I have a... I, I personally have a meeting on the 7th, and I'd prefer to be here to navigate this one. Yeah. It's a little tricky. You wanna go through four weeks? Yes, sir. Okay. So we'll do the 21st, right? Yeah. 21st of April? Is that gonna mess him up as far as timelines for this permit? No? No. I mean, you technically did continue it to the 7th already, so. Um. All right, so I'll just amend it to the 21st. Is that working? That's, that would be great. Thank you. Okay. And we heard what you guys were saying, and we'll-
Mm ... I need some time to adjust a little bit. Yeah. Thank you. Was, there was a vote on that? Sure. Should we do a, a, a new continuance, request? So I'll make a motion to continue 288 Elm Street till the 21st of April, 2026. Second. All those in favor? At a time we will confirm- Aye. Aye. At a time to be determined. Later today. Later today. Thank you very much. Yes. Appreciate it. So it'll be 5:36,
6:37. Next on the agenda is review of plans not requiring approval. Under subdivision control law, we have 985 Granville Road, Adams. So pretty standard ANR, carving a lot out from a larger lot. Uh, let me just get in here. So 150-foot frontage, shows on both lots, which is the
requirement. There's some abutting land, I guess from Stanley Park, being folded into this as well. But basically it's, creating that lot in the lower right. Good night. 132, 200 feet. Questions? Motion?
I'll make the motion to accept the ANR. Do I hear a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. Next on the agenda, local regulation for clean energy systems. Do we, um- Want to change up the order and talk about start time while Rob is here. We could? He's leaving. Oh, he's leaving. Okay, let's talk about BASC. Clean energy system. So I think yesterday I sent out the, the state's working on their
consolidated local permit application and checklist. So, you should have that. It's on the shared drive too. But that's-- I think that's really the only update stateside. Um, if you look at their application, it's fairly extensive. What is it, twenty pages? Which again, makes me think anyone is gonna tend to wanna avoid the local consolidated permit process and just go through the normal local process. Um, so again, I think we need to
make, make our local process more or less match, the demands the state is requiring. Our application is, is two pages. This is twenty. Are, are you looking for approval or are you- No, I'm not looking. I just kept-- I think you mentioned last time just to keep
this on the agenda. Um, you know, again, we've got, we've got some time to, to pull something together locally, but all this stuff the state's doing is kinda helping inform the, context it will be looked at, looked at from an applicant's point of view. So again, I think locally we need to make as onerous a process as, as the state's setting forward.
Questions, comment? As an aside, I did c-talk with Counselor Fannion, so I, I guess as we get further along and draft something locally, we'll maybe full-- have a little working group, maybe a counselor or two in before it's formally proposed. Like just, just a cold call to council that there's some involvement in, in crafting it before it's formally proposed to them.
Anything else? Any comments? We, we good. It's a twenty-page application. I know. They ask for everything. Yeah. And again, they have these requirements about site suitability scoring and all that stuff, which we normally wouldn't have in our, in our local regulations. So- Can I just ask one- I almost wanna say for our local permit, you must follow the state process. So...
Deal. Can I just ask one question? Yeah. Um, unless I missed it somewhere, but I was looking to see that if batteries were put in, and those I believe would be also on a term life. They're on a shelf life, correct? Come on. So my question is, just like they would do with the solar fields, if these hit their expired time, do they get
replaced? Or if they-- whoever owns it decides to walk away, who is responsible for removing these things? So normally, and I think the model ordinance shows a, a decommissioning bond would be, secured when it's approved. So the city would hold basically, could cash that in and, and remove it if, if they walked away from it. Okay. Say that again. The city? We would collect a bond- Okay ... for decommissioning. So that bond, would that be because we'd have to pay for the cost
of removing that? If they walked away, yeah. And that bond, as things get more expensive over the years, could end up costing the city more in the long run. Yeah. They usually-- and like the solar ones we've done, they usually have a step-up cost every five years or something built into the requirement. Okay. So do these-- whoever would be putting these in, would they have a contract with the city of so many years that they would have these things sitting here on a site that they-- like say for ten years, and
then they can either renew a contract. I'm trying to figure out how they're actually handling this, so that we know if you're gonna end up having to remove these things if they walk away. I mean, they could walk away in one year. Yes. So that's not-- I mean, the point of the bond is it covers, it covers that removal. Um, but as to time limits, you can put time limits on your special permit or require just like any other, required to be renewed every so often, or if there's a change in ownership, they come back. Those, those normal type of things you could do.
So we can actually have that in the special permit for more of a clarification of a timeline. Yeah. Is that what you're saying? You can set, set time limits or require renewal or that kind of stuff. You usually don't on most of your special permits, but you can. Well, this is a new thing coming in, and it could be actually more of, and just my perspective, more of a environmental issue. So I was just trying to figure out, you know, what the end results would end up being. So thank you for explaining
that. You good? Any other questions? Do you want anything else from us on this? No. I mean, I think the moratorium's made me a little complacent in, in tackling it, but, we'll, we'll get something together. Okay. Next on the agenda, changing our time. Jay sent out a little, gave us a little
synopsis of who does what and where, at what times. Well, I'd like to make a motion to change the time to six o'clock. Need a second. Are you second? Uh, we should have some discussion. Yeah. Okay. So the answer is yes, we can have a second, but we should have some discussion. I guess the first question it raised was, do we have a still hold to our ten o'clock end time, or do we move it up to nine?
The way I look at it, we could hold to the ten o'clock, end time because there's a lot of times that even though we had a ten o'clock end time, we went over to ten o'clock. So six to ten gives us a lot more leeway that we can contain it within those four hours. I agree with that. I agree with that. I, I-- The getting here for six o'clock is tough. Uh, you know, that-- and this is just me. And even, even though I'm, I am retired, I have things I have to do before I come here, and
I'm usually here early. I'm usually here by six thirty, but some, some days I'm just barely making it, and like tonight, I got here quarter of, but I still haven't had a chance to go home and get, get to sit down and have supper yet. So you start moving earlier, it's gonna be difficult, you know, I think to get here. You know, I think this, the seven o'clock, and I'm-- I don't know. It may be just me. I think it's just-- It's hard. You know, I understand some of the rationale for it,
but, you know, to, to my mind, the seven o'clock time makes it-- give, gives you-- gives everybody time to do what they've got to do before they come here, and get ready to go. Uh, granted, you know, for having somebody come in from the, the city, then that was one of the big things with the city council when they were talking about it. When they bring in people from this-- that work here in the city, they've got to hang around for two hours from their-- after their end day to, to be at a meeting for seven o'clock.
So it gives them an hour less time they have to hang around. But they're gonna be here till the end, till they're done with their part of the meeting anyway. So I don't think that's a-- I think it's, it's a convenience for them, but I think it's a bigger inconvenience for the people who are coming in from outside, especially the people. You know, we don't get a lot of people coming in and talk to us, but when we do get them, we get a lot of them, depending on what the, what the item is that we've got on the agenda. So to me, it's, it's, you know, if we change it, we change it, but I don't--
I'm not in favor of it. I agree with the, the- Just because of the, the issue of getting here at that time with everything else that's going on. Mm-hmm. No, I mean, the, the average person who works gets out of work at five o'clock and has like a half hour commute, we'll say. So that, you know, puts you home at five thirty, maybe you can have a sandwich and get here by seven. You don't have time for a meal. Um, and the, the same for the public. I mean, if they're coming for a, you know, a large public hearing, six doesn't work for most of them. But I, I don't know where
seven came from, or six came from. I, I didn't realize that seven wasn't working. I never heard anything about that. What was, I think, only those long couple of nights we had. Well, I could compromise at six thirty. Well, that's, you know, that's not related to the starting time. That's related to the, the whole way the meetings are being conducted. Right. I mean, it's- Right. But, you know- People are given too much of a leash, really. If people are, are here, sitting here, you know, until ten o'clock waiting for-- to speak at a, a public hearing, we, we, we don't
cut the meetings off because it's not fair to them. I mean, six thirty might be a good compromise. Did you say a compromise for six thirty? I'm thinking that would be a, you know, compromise that we could come up with. This is a compromise. Actually, I put some thought into this, wondering if it's a good idea or not. But I-- this is what I came down to in my own conclusion. People will adapt. We're only here twice a month, and it's just a shift of one hour. I have thought about possibly applicants coming in from, you
know, out of town. Um, we do, do get some. We're not city council, where they get a lot more people coming in. Uh, but I do like the idea, Jane, six thirty, if you wanna compromise, and I do understand people do work. Um, I've been there, where you've just had to adapt to that, that timeframe. And I'm just wondering how many times in a person's life, except for us on the board, like Rich, you know, has things that have to be done that he can't necessarily get here for
six, and I understand that. But for the public coming in, maybe you're coming in for an issue in your neighborhood or something like that, but you're not gonna be here week after week. So if you have to leave work a few minutes early, if it's important enough for you to be here, that you may, you know, be able to adjust your work timeframe to get here. Rich, you're a different story 'cause you're here every, every other week. So I will note some of these other communities that I listed do hybrid meetings, which
may make it more flexible for people to Zoom in at different times than, coming in person. Uh, but I do agree. I think if something's important enough to someone, they're gonna be here when the meeting is. If you look at that, what, at the interma-intermediate school for the six o'clock- Yeah. I mean, that was-- People get there if it's important. Yeah. Um, it matters not to me what the board wants to do. This is just inspired by the city council's recent change. I know Park Rec just changed their meetings to six too.
They did? Yep. Did West Springfield change their meetings recently, or have they always been at six? Uh, they... They did change their meetings. It wasn't recently, but they do ha-- they do meet at six. I don't know what the-- I've only been there for about a year now, and since I've been there, they've been at six. Have you-- Can we ask questions? Yes. How, how is that working for you? Name and address. Stephanie Nunez, Ninety-three Prospect Street Extension.
Um, we have people show up. I mean, most of our board are retired, folks, so they do make it in time. I mean, it-- we have people show up when people show up. So you haven't had a lot of complaints or people, you know, calling in- No ...can't we have the meeting later or anything like that? No. No. Okay. I mean... All right. Yeah, and I mean, people can email in as well, and those comments are read during the meetings as well. I know it's better to be here in person, but there are other options- Right ...for people to communicate- So- ...with the board.
So there hasn't been any emails coming in or anything complaining about the time of the meeting? Not since I've been there, no. Since you've been there for about a year. Mm-hmm. Okay. Thank you. Yep. I, I, I can tell you my pattern, okay? I stay at work. I don't-- I do not go home. I just come straight to the meeting from here. And if you see me come racing in here, it's usually because I got engrossed in something at work, okay? Um- There's a long line at Arby's. No.
Um, so yeah. I like six o'clock, but I'm not adverse to seven. I do like six, okay? Because I'm less likely to get engrossed. I'll do something more menial. Um, but whether it's six or seven, I'm not going home. So would you prefer, does it matter? Is that what you're saying? It doesn't... Yeah. The will of the board. Six gets you home a little earlier at night, though, on meeting nights, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. We really
haven't had a long meeting in a long time. It's been a while. It's coming. But it happens. Okay. So I can handle one or two a year. So- I'm just curious what Phil, John, and Bernie are thinking. I think I made it clear when I sent my text out that day that, that, that was the quickest I think I've ever responded to a text at six o'clock. I've basically, grown up by we eat early, and that's just the way I am, early and often. And, I, I just sit around waiting for... At six o'clock, I'm just already been waiting half an hour.
So that's just the way I am, but I'll, I'll try to work it out. I, I like to go to bed early, so when we get home at ten thirty, nine, you know, nine. But it's all fine. Uh, but I wanna make it-- I thought because most of us are retired, you know, not all of us, but, I thought six would be an issue, and, but I get it. I feel the same as Bill. I, I would like six to get out earlier, but seven is fine with me, so I don't really care. So whatever the majority- Out of curiosity, does it have to be permanent?
Can we test it for two months or three months? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's in your rules right now for seven, so you could vote to change the rules, and if you don't like it, you can- It's a good compromise ...change them again. What do you think, Richard? That's a good compromise. Like I said, I'm not, I'm not in favor of it, but if, th- everybody else agrees with it, I'll be here, I'll do my thing. You know, I'll find a way to work it. I have other meetings that start at six thirty, at seven o'clock, at seven thir- you know, seven o'clock during the week.
So it's not a- At night ... not a... Yeah, at night. The... I have trouble making the earlier ones, the six thirty ones and the seven o'clock ones, but I do make them. Sometimes a few minutes late, but I do make them. You know, so I can, you know, I can adjust to them. I just... It seems to me that it's tight for anybody, you know, not so much us as the people who are coming to this thing. Six o'clock could be tight for a lot of people, the ones that work and have young kids and, you know, have to, have to...
You know, it's not like they can just, you know, like us, we just pack up and go. But if you gotta feed three kids and, you know, somebody else, you can't just pack up and go if you wanna come to one of our meetings. Now, can... If they're only making one meeting every four months or five months 'cause there's something on the docket that they wanna lo- talk to, they can adjust their schedule, so they could probably work it out. So it's, it's not a crisis thing. But I think, you know, you know, if the majority is in favor of it, I can go along with it.
Do you guys have to stay, like, two hours? 'Cause your day ends at 5:00, correct? I, I'm here, yeah. I go home. You go home. Do you bring him back dinner? It's down the street. I probably should. I don't mind it. Um, it's quiet and I can get things done, so either way. Well, I guess the question is if we change it to 6:00, are you gonna be able to go on? Uh, how about, how about we try six o'clock through September and reassess it then? Fair. 'Cause that gives us April, May, June, and then we're on summer hours anyways.
April, summer. Which is July, August, and usually the... we're off the first week in September, and we reassess it then. I think that sounds fair. Or, or 6:30. Doesn't matter to me. I'm thinking six o'clock. That seems to be the majority of where towns are. Well, let's try the 6:00, and then if it's not working, then we maybe could try the 6:30. Sure. Sound fair? Sound good or not? Is this for a few months, you said, for six?
Yeah, we reassess in September. We talking 6:00 or 6:30 at, at reassess? 6:00. What, what are we talking about? I'm thinking 6:00. Talking 6:00. I'm talking 6:00. Okay, and then we'll reassess in September. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm good. So, so the motion... There was already a motion for 6:00, so- Should I restate the motion or vote? No. No. I second, I second Jane's motion for six o'clock. For... Would, would we running it as a trial run? Well, we'll put it on the agenda sometime in September- We just, we just change it if we don't like it ... and talk about it again.
Okay. Okay. Sure. All those in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Nope. We're good. Can we, before we leave, can we talk about, the gas station pizza place thing, or is that, we can't do that without them here? Shouldn't. I mean- Or can we hypothetically talk about, a building versus a, uh- I don't think we should ... a special permit site plan? I don't think it'd be a smart idea. All right. I don't think Shannon would like it, and probably rightfully so.
So... Anything else we wanna talk about? No? You wanna tell anybody that the lights are up? Oh, yeah. Everybody see the lights? Lights are up. Before it gets dark. And give Cheryl big props on that. Hey, Cheryl. So... Thank you, Cheryl. And that light post- Oh, no, no, no. This is, this is teamwork. Actually, the money, correct me, Chris, the money came out of the, cultural district fund, correct? Yes. The money came out of the, cultural district
fund. And I believe it didn't go any higher than 3,500, Chris. Yeah. Yeah, it, it's under $5,000. Very nice. Yeah, but... Oh, yeah. I saw the paper. Mm-hmm. Can, can I just back up? So on that last, on the time change, we're still keeping the 10:00 end time? Yes. We are still keeping the 10:00. And Bill, thank you for the lights too. You were involved with that too. It's all Cheryl. I thought you called the lights too.
It's all Cheryl. That's not what I heard. It's all you. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Jane's not getting- I hear, I hear a second? That's fine. Second. All those in favor of adjourning? Aye. Good night. It was-