Do you want this back? Oh, thank you. Good evening everybody. It is seven o'clock and we are calling the, uh, Tuesday, October 7th, 2025. Planning board meeting to order first on the agenda, it's public participation on any matter, not subject to a public hearing. Anybody want to talk about anything? Next on the agenda is review and approval of the previous minutes. 1925. I make a motion to accept the minutes film. September 2nd. Second. All those in favor? Aye.
Aye. Anybody opposed? So onto our public hearings, um, as I do every meeting, um, that's on our agenda is our public hearings. Today we have, uh, zoning, special permits and or site plan approvals. After the applicants present, the proposal board members will begin asking their questions. We will then invite the public to ask questions of fact. We will have a separate time for the public to speak in favor of or speak against emotions. When we recognize you, please come to the microphone, give your name and address, and, and direct all questions, comments
to the board, not the applicant. The purpose of our public hearings is to allow board members to collect evidence and testimony supporting and contradicting the published legal findings. We are required to make to, um, approve or deny any application. You cannot act outside the bounds of the zoning ordinances, nor the stormwater ordinance were also sought. Please understand, public hearings are not a community referendum nor a town meeting. We ask you to keep comments, civil and positive. Remembering, we're all neighbors working to move Westfield forward. While you are free to express your opinion, ultimately
and legally, the board can only deliberate on the findings of fact, not on yours or our personal on opinions. First on the agenda, well, we have four zoning petitions, um, in front of the planning board. Um, and so we'll take each one separately. Um, John Bowen's not here. So Rich Loy will be sitting in for on all four of these. First on the agenda, um, amendment to amendment, correct the plan, uh, the map at Ridgeway Avenue vicinity
to residency. So, um, obviously this board should be familiar with these. We talked about this, I think it was in the spring about some of these discrepancies. Um, so the Ridgeway zone, I brought the old maps, um, and there's also some on your share drive. Basically in 1988 when the zoning was overhauled or the new map was drawn, all the resident c districts were labeled as resident C dash one. That's what the map showed. Um, for whatever reason, I don't know,
but they were subsequently corrected to just be residency. But for some reason, this one was not changed. And I, there's no evidence it was ever rezoned to be residency one. So I think it's clearly an error. It really doesn't mean anything to anyone living there. The neighborhood's already developed. It's basically the same use regulations. Um, so it's just to fix the map to what it should be. Questions. It's pretty straightforward. Well, it's pretty straightforward. Mm-hmm. Questions from the public. Do I hear a motion? Well, do I hear, um,
anybody in the public wanna speak in favor of and speak against or hear a motion to close public hearing? Make A motion. No. Close each one, right chair? Well, they're individual petition, so it's probably best to treat them separately. Say that again. Probably best to treat them separately. Yeah. Do I hear a motion? Close public hearing For We're on Ridgeway, correct? Ridgeway? Yeah. Ridgeway. I'll make a motion and close the public hearing for Ridgeway. Have Second. All those in favor? Aye. Do I hear a motion? Uh, the, I'll make a motion to accept the recommendation
of the zone change for Ridgeway. Have I'll second. Second. Although, um, okay. Um, Phil? Yes. Jane? Yes. Ray? Yes. Cheryl? Yes. Bernie? Yes. Rich? Yes. And I am a yes. All right. Next is amendment. Affirm the map at 2 65 Union Street as industrial A, Uh, again, we also talked about this
and proposed a change. Um, as you recall, uh, it's, we believe the correct zoning for this parcel is rural residential. Um, if you look at some of the documents on your share drive, some of the old maps and ordinances, it kind of supports that. Um, Let's see. Um, Here's a 2002 map. Um, so that's the RC one that we just talked about. And you can see all the other rc all the other zones were changed to rc, but we move past that.
So down here is this subject, and you can see how on that map, the two zones across the street, more or less a line. If you look on the current zoning map, you can see how they overlap From here. Uh, the stashed area was recently rezoned, recently last year maybe. So, so this would've Been that line, how those two would meet, But Properly, they should A line along the edge like that. Um, and as discussed, so, and there's the old ordinance rezoning those, a budding properties to industrial A,
but did not include this one. Um, And I will, um, I didn't find any evidence that this was ever zoned to industrial A So this would be a, a correction of the map. It's probably not actually a change because, well, it would be a change if we change it to industrial a as the map has shown it for 20 years. And I think that's what the board felt that that was the appropriate route last time. Mm-hmm. Leave it as industrial, Leave the map, but change the ordinance to map,
match it to be industrial. Yeah. And that pink. The pink, yeah. Okay. So the map, it's been like that Anyway, correct? The, yeah. The map has been wrong for, like I said, about 20 years or more when it was inputted into GIS from being hand drawn. So changing the audience to match to Map. Yeah. Okay. Are any questions from the Board? I have a question. Uh, if we had, if this had been changed the time when they came in front of us for a dispensary for a special permit, would they have had to have come in front of us for that permit at this time, or no?
Uh, it wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have been the proper zone. Okay. And, um, you know, back then I, I wrote a, I think I had it at the time. I wrote a memo to the file and hadn't really researched how that came about. Since then, we've dug into things and old maps and old ordinances. So it's pretty clear now that it was never formally changed to industrial A. So that's what we would be doing now. And again, um, you know, the reason for these is, um, we're planning to publish the new zoning map
with all the recent updates, probably early next year, which we do every couple years or so, depending how often it changes. So just to get all these little things fixed before we put out the new map is, is the reason for this. Any other questions? Any questions from the public? Anybody in the public wanna speak in favor of or against? Do I hear, can I ask one more question? Sure. Yeah, sure. This is already industrial. We're leaving it alone. It's industrial. Well, um, I don't believe it is. I believe it's residential. Right? But are we switching it to residential?
Oh, switching it. We're gonna leave it as Industrial. We're, we're switching it to industrial. Right. Formally So, but it has been Industrial, well, the map has shown it as industrial, but without an ordinance that Okay. Supports that. It was never, the mapping error Is, the only question I have is, you know, there's a house there and stuff is, why would it still remain as industrial? 'cause to me it seems more residential and I'm just questioning it because I'm just trying to understand it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the use is a little more consistent with, um, residential. But I mean, we talked about this.
I think the board felt, for one, it's been shown industrial for so long to formalize it, um, that it's on a kind of a busy road. It's a budding in industrial areas, um, that it might be more appropriate for that type of classification. It doesn't change what's happening there Now. They can continue to do what they've been doing. I, I just find this interesting because it's just kind of like its own entity in the middle of, it's just an odd place.
And, and to me that seems more residential than it does, um, industrial. Yeah. Well, the two properties to the west are industrial, and now you just, uh, city just rezoned business B across the street. So it's, it's moved across The street to business B, Right. Of, or we expanded that business B zone across the street. So you even those properties been sitting there as industrial, you feel it's okay to leave it as industrial. 'cause to me, I just don't feel it that way. Well, and this is the board's proposal, so this was what
the board put forward. I know I have put some thought into this and I was wondering if I even thought this was even correct. So that's why I'm bringing it back up, because I thought to myself, maybe this wasn't a, in my perspective, where I was thinking at the time, maybe this wasn't the right decision. Okay. It's, it says more of the feel of the residential or the rural than it does for industrial. But that's, Cheryl, Can I poke in here for a minute and maybe, um, yes. Say something that might change your thinking a little bit because I, I understand what you're saying at first, I thought about that, but this isn't necessarily for now,
maybe in future, um, for future projects and things that might come along if somebody sells this house, that it's so in such an industrial area, that they would be able then to go ahead and put some type of an industrial, um, entity there instead of leaving it as residential, but kind of that loan en, you know, house hanging out there. Does that make any sense to you? YY yes. I totally understand you're coming from, I know when the, um, the idea of putting a a marijuana there, there was a
interesting discussion about the house. 'cause I had brought it up and asked what about the house? And, um, it wasn't fully answered as, as what they were actually gonna do with the house, if they were gonna tear it down or not. It was just kind of left open-ended. So my question was, if like you're saying, is this an appropriate place to leave it alone as industrial or, or, or make it as a rural residential only because of where it's sitting at and you know where it's surrounded by? That's the only question I have.
Yeah. It's, it's surrounded by the, the industrial and then across the business. So I can see in the fu and I'm, again, I think sometimes we look at these that plan for the future as to what the best use will be in the future, not necessarily what's there. Now, am I wrong at, Well, you're, you're planning, so what, what's the, what's the, what makes sense for this corridor, right? If you look, you know, is this long term a residential property or if you look again, what's just been rezoned, two non-residential areas across the street. The only abutting residential is actually
the, the golf course. Uh, it's not really a residential, it's more of a commercial use anyway. Yeah. So this would, it's kind of an anomaly for a residential use in the area. I'm just thinking of, uh, where the five guys burgers is Now, that was a house that was a residential house, and it happened to be, I worked for a bank at the time that bought that house and we turned it into a branch bank, uh, you know, using the existing structure. But that was like the only house there. So it made sense, you know, zoning wise that that would be used for a business.
I, so that's why I'm thinking that that house, the people that live there now may want to keep it, but when they go to sell it or something, they, this could be more of an appropriate use Is up an opportunity. Just my thoughts. I, I tend to agree with Jane. Um huh. I tend, I tend to agree with Jane. I go on Union Street virtually every day. Um, there is a farmhouse across the street we have mm-hmm. This house, um, there is a, I guess it's a house, but they manufacture wood products.
Okay. Uh, there's the, there, the really, the two legitimate houses are the farmhouse and the one on the corner of Springdale. But everything else on there is some sort of business all the way down through past the salt pile. Um, and then you start to get back into residential neighborhoods. So I think that the, the front section of what I call the, you know, the section closest to East Main Street is really, has more of a, um, business feel to it.
But, um, and then the section after the salt pile kind of flips and flops, but it really does have a residential field to it. You know, albeit apartment buildings for part of it. And then residential houses for the other part. So I think, I think this is an appropriate change. I, I, I, I do, I'm listening. I am listening, but I, I'm also worried about what the consequences could be later on, depending on what could be put in there. My question also is beyond the lights, when you go past down there and you have that four-way light there,
or three-way, that's business b zoning down further there. Correct? Uh, it's kind of a mix, Huh? Kind of a mix in that area. Mix of residential and business. Yeah. Okay. Is there an, uh, industrial also down further from there? Or not toward Town? Yes. What's that? As you head toward town? Yeah. Industrial. Okay. I, I just, uh, I, I'm listening to you guys. It just,
I mean, I think, you know, one of the factors is just that the map has shown this as industrial for so long that, I mean, I hadn't hadn't dug into it. We think it was industrial and weren't too concerned. So, um, I mean, legally doesn't mean much, but I think you need to give some deference to the fact that everyone has, this has been mapped as industrial. Um, the landowner apparently thinks it's industrial zone. Well, one of the things that I remember from our conversations when this was gonna
be used as an industrial property was the flooding down there and the wetness of it. And I'd hate to change this into a, uh, industrial property considering that factor, because it's really not, to me, it didn't matter what was in there. Nothing should go on that property based on the propensity to flood. You know, the house is up high enough, so it, it's a little bit away from that, but the rest of that property is so low that, to my mind, it's, it's too low to build anything on.
So if you leave a residential the way it is, it's, it's not something that they're gonna go and, and build a lot of stuff on because they, it is got one house on it already. But if you, if you do, we do make that change to industrial and somebody goes in there and buys it, wants to put some kind of a business in there, or industrial property they're gonna have to deal with with the wet. And that's part of the problem that again, uh, I mean that's gonna be a limiting factor no matter what it's zone. So it may well not be buildable. I think some of it is in floodplain.
Um, this is just looking at the zoning map and what makes sense from a map perspective. Anybody Else? I Do, I hear a motion to close the public hearing. I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Um, do I hear a motion on the amendment to affirm the map? 2 65 as industrial A I'll make an motion to affirm the map as industrial A, Wait a second On, You are a second, Bernie?
Yes. Okay. Alright. We'll start with, uh, well start, go right around the room. Bernie? Yes. Jane? Yes. Where's Jane? Jane, yes. Phil? Yes. Um, Ray? Yes. Cheryl? I'm sorry, I don't feel comfortable. No. Uh, rich? No. I, And I'm a yes. So. Alright, next on the agenda is amendment a amend map at two
and zero cycle Streets parcel 21 dash 32 dash 18 residential C and industrial A, um, respectively. So I will say, um, we had our city council hearing on this last Thursday, and in a moment of, um, frustration and weakness, I withdrew the petition. So counsel won't be acting on this. Uh, it doesn't mean we can't give a recommendation. Um, we had proposed, so this zone,
and I dug out the old map. So in 1987 before the zoning was overhauled, this was a business, a little parcels for business, a district here with the zoning overhaul and everything was remapped. Uh, there was a new neighborhood commercial district called Commercial A that was created in 87, 88. And that's how this was mapped here. And that's the 1988 commercial A, um, and you can also see all the rcs were RC ones there,
and those were later corrected. So how went from commercial A to RC one? I'm not sure. Again, probably in the, in the translation to GIS was a mapping error. So if nothing happens, no change, we would just update the map or fix the map back to commercial aid. Um, the amendment, so what the board had discussed was, well, that's just a tiny little zone and it's not really a commercial area anymore. Probably used to support the factory way back when. Um, so the board had said, well, we'll split that into the
adjacent zones of re c purple and re and industrial a magenta, and then that low zone would disappear. So that's what the board put forward. Um, and there's a lot of contention, misunderstanding, or whatever concern about that at city council. So I don't think it's worth pursuing. This is just supposed to be dumb little edits, not really substantive changes. So, um, like I said, I, I withdrew, it took deliberate to withdraw the application, so they won't be deliberating further on that.
Um, but you know, you're still having your hearing so you could still forward your recommendation to the, to the council. Any questions? You just, you can make a recommendation, right? Yeah, I mean it's a hearing. I don't know if anyone's here for this. Anybody here wants, um, ask a question of fact speak in favor of speak against, do we have a recommendation for the, um, city council? So again, the petition that is filed erases this zone, this little tiny zone completely and folds it into the abutting zone. So your recommendation be on, I guess that,
So we're looking at two cycle street to become residential C and zero two B industrial A, if I have that correct. That's what the board proposed. Yeah. Okay. But that's, Are there any houses on either one of those lots On two cycle? There is, and the, the other lot across the street is not, it's not a separate lot. It's part of that big magenta area already. Okay. That, I think that's why, why we talked about the split because the, a residential house on that, that ry. Right.
Yeah. That makes sense. And then I think that, so That would make sense. Make leave that residential seat, which everything else is, but the other one has nothing. It's really connected. So make that industrial a So the split that you've got here makes a lot of sense from keeping the pieces where they belong. Yeah. Uh, there was, like I said, that wasn't, it wasn't that well received at the council hearing. So Do you have any objections that you can share with us as to why they, it wasn't well received or the, Uh, concerns about industrial aid Generally?
I think concerns about rumors about some big development or apartment complex going here, Wanting to go In there or some connection to Gold Street. Some, you know, nothing that had anything to do with, with the, the mapping. It was just going off the rails and it was not, it's not important enough to, to fight against. Yeah. Or So, um, Like I said, but we can still make a recommendation. We can make any kind of recommendation you want. Like I said, um, we're not gonna move forward. The only I'll change it to correct it back
through the commercial A so those two parcels will remain commercial A and, uh, at some point, you know, I just wanna confirm all this. I'm gonna go through all the old ordinances back from 19, whatever, 49 and just confirm that these changes were making were either never rezoned or what they were rezoned to. I will say as I looked at this, I've discovered a couple other areas that are apparently also inaccurate. Nothing that's really gonna change anyone's life,
but, um, again, I can make those administrative fixes In, in this area. You found a couple more, or, Well, I mean this is a curiosity here. This, um, this patch of commercial a I guess that's West Silver. Oh, that's commercial, Right? And I don't where it went away. I don't know why. It seems an odd thing that someone would zone that away. So I just like to investigate some of those. Uh, it'll be tedious to go through all the ordinances over time.
Um, there was an area on Southwick Road that's a different residential than shown. Um, you know, some of these we've corrected already, like this, uh, industrial A was never shown properly on the map. We fixed that a while ago. Okay. So as long as, as long as we can confirm that it matches an ordinance or isn't supported by an ordinance, we can, can make the administrative edits. But anything that were to be a change would need obviously
the hearings and the ordinances. Like, like, uh, the Union Street one would be a change. Thank you. I was just curious as to, I really shouldn't have dug out all those old maps and looked at them because I You regret that. Now Keep finding things. Um, I mean, as you can imagine, these are big hand drawn maps that didn't have property lines and some was more or less eyeballing where things go and, um, you know, they had to be translated into the GIS, which is more precise. And some people made some judgements and errors apparently, um, you know, was a big task.
But I just want things to be accurate. Uh, these are not particularly meant to be anything controversial. So recommendation, Uh, I make a recommendation that we make the change to industrially and, and RC splitting those two lots. I, it just makes sense to me. One's got a house on it and one doesn't, you know, the how with the house should be residential, the one without, next to the industrial part P should be industrial. Yeah. And that was what the board proposed. So, yeah.
And I agree with Rich. I think you're right. Anybody disagree with Rich? So shall we consider this unanimous recommendation? I agree with Rich. Makes sense to me. Okay. Do you want an official motion on That? Uh, looking for a motion to, alright, I'll, I'll make the motion to split those two parcels. Zero cycle street as, um, industrial A and two cycle street as residential C. Make the motion, motion motion to make a recommendation
to the city council, right? Yes. Okay, I'll second that. Um, You don't, you don't need a roll call on me. Okay. Perfect. Next on the agenda. Well, You should take a vote though. What? You should take a vote. Doesn't have to. Oh, I thought you said we didn't have to. Well, You don't need a roll call. Oh, you can take a voice. Yeah. Do I hear? Um, all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? We're good. So again, that's, uh, they won't be doing anything with it, but We're on record. Note To file. Yeah. Next in the agenda, do you regulate family daycare
uses plus miscellaneous text updates? And this was another one we talked about more recently. Um, these are text changes and again, inspired by the state law. Changes about family daycare, we are, we're not allowed to regulate it. Um, So we we're, we'll be taking out the special permit requirement and then some other little edits through in there just to make this, uh, kind of, um, worth the effort. Again, nothing meant to be major or controversial.
Just housekeeping. I go by state rules. So it's a no brainer. You're not thrilled with them forcing us to, to do something that we don't think may be a good placing for it. I suppose we can't do much about it. Any questions from the public? Anybody in the public speak for or against this? Any questions or comments from board? Do I hear a motion? Close public hearing? I'll make a motion. I make a motion to close public hearing. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Do I hear a motion on this? Do I hear a motion? Deregulate Family daycare uses plus all the mis miscellaneous tax updates. Anybody? No motion from anybody?
I'll make a motion that we change the, uh, zoning rules to, to comply with mass state law. All second. What about the miscellaneous tax And the miscellaneous tax? Okay. Do DIA second Ray you said second, correct? Yeah. Ray, second? Yep. Second. Thank you Ray. Welcome. So we'll start with Ray. Yes. Again, you don't, you don't need roll calls? We don't, we don't need a roll call On these recommendations. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed Good ayes have it.
Next on the agenda, two applications of Little River Plaza LLC For special permits, each persona ordinance four dash 40.2 and seven dash 10.8 to allow access to lots created from 4 37 and 5 87 East Main Street, little River Plaza, not across the frontage. And with offsite parkings zoning is Business B and Flood Plain. These will be taken separately. The first one is lot A the applicant here.
Good Evening. My name is John Zeki with Oral Lebec Associates. Uh, I'm here to present, uh, two similar, uh, but different special permit applications for a pair of properties on East Main Street. Um, the first is for, uh, proposed Lot a, which is located at 4 37 East Main Street in the Little River Plaza. Probably better known as the Five guys. Um, so the applicant, little River Plaza, LLC, is requesting a special permit under section four dash 40.2 of the City of Westfield zoning ordinance for access
through an abudding plot by means of a recorded easement plan. In addition, the applicant requests a special permit under section seven dash 10.8 of the City of Westfield zoning ordinance for an offsite parking for offsite parking via recordable cross parking easement. Um, ultimately should the special permits be approved, the applicant would then follow up with an a and r plan. Um, which this is, is a draft that would create a separate parcel for the, the five guys property of that address, um, down the line. So, uh, you plan up there, um,
so this is the Little River Plaza here. This is East Main Street. Little River Road is over there. So North is actually down on the plan. Um, this is the existing five guys, uh, with associated parking and the drive through. So, um, The, the proposed special permit would not make any changes on the ground, uh, to the site. It would simply just allow for the creation of that separate parcel. If anyone has any questions, I can't really see the map that well. Where is the easement that you want? You said I I think the easement is more
of a narrative saying you can cross this land and park here more than a Okay, so we're, Since I can't see it, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. So I guess in general you would have to, the way, the way the zoning bylaws are written, you need to have your access to your parcel would have to be through the frontage and the, the necessary parking for your site would also have to be on your property. So, um, what this is doing, the access to the five guys would not be through the front engine. It would be through, you know, the main entrances into the
plaza, the main driveway entrances. So, uh, we know with all the different, you know, legal, you know, easements put in place that, that would allow for that to happen. And again, the parking, um, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head. I'm gonna say, I'll call it 25. Parking spaces are required for the five guys. Obviously the, there are not 25 parking spaces on this proposed parcel. A but it would continue to use, you know, the, the parking in the adjacent, you know, in a, in a remain of the plaza. So like, so on the other side of the driveway entering the plaza. Those parking spaces you're talking About? Yeah. Okay. So
again, like I said, there would be no change to the functionality of the site. It would just, Literally just the creation of parking. Conceivably they would want to separate ownership of these parcels instead of it all being owned by one entity like it is now. They could be separately owned. So thus we'd need some legal assurance that people can get to it access and that parking can be met within the greater parking lot. Okay. I think it also includes utilities and, you know, whatever might be across the different properties. I Understand. Alright. Thank you. This is a fairly new zoning provision.
We did it with the Chipotle. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, similar type of thing. So physically nothing, you wouldn't know anything. It's different. It's more or less a legal thing. The good thing about this is there's so much unused parking in that area that it gives that little bit of flexibility. I'm sorry. It gives 'em a flexibility 'cause there's so many unused parking spaces in that area, in that entire area. There's a lot of those parking spaces are really unused. I mean, again, this wouldn't necessarily affect
That. No, but it, it gives the extra if you need it. Like for five guys or even for the bank or for anybody else. Right. I'm sorry, I'm, I'm not, I'm sorry. I can't you that one. I'm sorry. Yeah, It's okay. Along those lines. So I did point out, so in that five guys site plan approval way back when, yeah, the board did want those front two spaces converted to landscape. Um, which hasn't, hasn't happened. Those little orphan two sitting there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that, that was a condition of the drive through plan just
isn't specifically related to this proposal, but just noting it, I mean obviously there's no one here representing the owner, but it's my understanding that, uh, for the next, the next application for the proposed bank, I think when the, at the time that the, when the bank is construction that constructed, that will be converted to landscape area. So that's, that's my understanding. But I Anybody in the public have a question of fact. Anybody want to speak in favor? I would speak against any additional questions here on the board. So what, what would the next step be as far as those two parking spots? I didn't, I couldn't hear what was being said here.
Um, uh, 'cause I've been by that and I saw two car after our, our memos on Thursday. I checked it out and there are two cars parked there. And if there was a backup, uh, on the drive through there, that would be a problem. So what's to be done on that, if anything? I, but but on the other hand, I've never seen, I've never seen a car at the drive up with five guys and I go by a couple of times a day. Yeah. Um, I mean it was a condition of the approval. I mean, it's not, it's up to the billing department to enforce, I'm guessing because the drive through probably didn't require a building permit. It was just a paving a road that
there's no, there's any leverage. They held up and didn't pursue any enforcement. Uh, you mentioned a bank being built. Yes. That was permitted in the summer of 2023. I believe it was. I'm trying to remember where, where the bank was that's Being built. It, it, it hasn't been built. Yeah. Where, where was it proposed to be built? Uh, I can't Remember. Look at The out front in the middle. So it something like the other side of the drive? It's, yeah, The parcel won't be there. It's a pad a lot up at, at the front. Yeah. This one Right there.
So on, on that plane then five guys is to the right. Right. Okay. And right there. Okay. Thank you. Just to refresh my memory. Yeah. Approved obviously not, not built yet. Right. Thank you. Any other questions? Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I'll make a motion to Close the public hearing. Second. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Read now, Ah, is 4 37, correct Draft special conditions, the a and r plan, um, subject property. It's a special permit. Subject property 4 37 East Main Street, portion of Little River Plaza
slash parent parcel Draft special conditions. One. The a and r plan creating the subject lot A has depicted on the, the submitted draft. Preliminary approval, not required plan by r Lebec Associates. 9 2 25 shall reference the booking page wherein this special permit has been recorded to the a and r plan. Shall also make reference to the access slash parking easement recorded or to be recorded substantially consistent with the submitted draft declaration of easements prepared
by David M. Barry Junior, Esquire. Three. No new ground signage is authorized by this approval. Um, draft findings After giving due, due regard to the application testimony and evidence at the public hearing, the board found that one specific site comprising a shopping plaza is an appropriate location for non frontage access to the proposed restaurant. Lot out parcel. A revised commonly owned lot through the existing shopping center slash parent parcel along with the off lot parking.
Two, the use will not adversely affect the commercial neighborhood as there will be no change to the site's function. In fact, minimizing curb cuts promotes planning objectives. Three. Adequate and appropriate facilities including parking capacity exist and will be provided for the use uses proper operation. Four. The plan as approved. Um, the plan as approved conforms to all other rules and regulations. The bo the board also finds the lot creation is a minor change relative to slight
plan approval eight slash 1820 affecting this property, but notes in outstanding condition that required removal of two frontage parking spaces. We are a motion on the special permit. I make a motion we approve six. The special permit for lot A, uh, 4 34 35, 4 37. 4 37 East Main Street. Second. Okay. Rich? Yes. Phil? Yes. Ray? Yes. Jane? Yes. Cheryl? Yes.
And Bernie? Yes. And I am A yes. Next is lot B. So ditto with bank. Ditto to this one. Yeah. Uh, Unfor, uh, this, I would like the five guys that we can drive by see every day. Uh, this one is for a proposed bank, uh, that would ultimately be built sort of in, uh, along East Main Street. Sort of the center of the plaza. Um, so be for the same reasons, you know, for the access, not through the frontage and for, uh, parking. Um, for the parking. So same exact requirements.
They're same exact special permit application is for five guys. Do they have a proposed date on this bank? I'm sorry? Do they have a proposed date for this bank? I do Not have that information. Honor Anybody in the public have a question of fact. Anybody want to speak in favor of? Speak against any other discussion here amongst the board? I hear a motion. Close public hearing. I motion to close public hearing. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Do I hear a motion on the special permit? Is it the same? I'm gonna go a motion propo, uh,
to approve, uh, the proposed lobby, a portion of 5 87 East Main Street with bank parcel. Second. So you'll see the, uh, conditions are pretty much the same findings, all That. Mm-hmm. Ken Ray? Yes. Bill? No. Yeah. Jane? Yes. Gerald? Yes. Bernie? Yes. Rich? Yes. And I am a yes. Thank you very much. Thank you Very much.
And that closes our public hearings. Next on the agenda is other business. We have street acceptance petition for Belvedere Gardens referred by from city council. So again, referred for your recommendation. Uh, this is a little unusual. It does not have a street layout, so it's basically a driveway, um, Which Complicates any kind of street acceptance. And, uh, this was something I think that was pursued 10 years or so ago.
Um, it was kind of dropped for that reason. Councilor Figgs here. I think it was his proposal. But, um, did any change from the last 10 they tried? Not that I'm aware of. Councilor, would you Like to say something? Yes. I have, uh, been working on trying to get Belvere Gardens. They become a city way for the last five, six years. There are four houses on this so-called driveway. However, if you look at the GIS, that 10 foot strip is shown clearly to be more than just a driveway.
Um, Our trash trucks go up there. We plow that. So I'm asking that this becomes a city way, uh, to help out those folks up there. Uh, it's not the biggest street in town. It's maybe 150 feet long. Uh, I don't think it's gonna be such a financial burden, but I really would like it to become a city way so we can maintain it. So it doesn't adversely affect our plow trucks as well as our garbage trash trucks that go up there. If you don't know where Bel Gardens is, it's right off Clinton f just about,
it's up the hill a little bit from the church. So left. So the, uh, all the, all the, uh, homeowners up there have signed the petition, all the paperwork's in order. So I'm just asking for some assistance to help these folks out. So again, I think past recommendations from the city engineer law department, or that this is not appropriate for acceptance. Um, at least not without some To which I have argued Yeah. With them disagreeing with their recommendations.
I know that legal says that the state law says that even if it doesn't show on your deed that you own to the middle of the road on a private way, I don't see how that's possible because your deed should be the official document of your property. And these sh clearly show a strip of property that's not on anybody's deed up there. I have a mall at home. I didn't realize it was on stroke of luck today that I'm here, but, uh, to me that doesn't make any sense. I just don't think they want to take on this project.
Uh, the city engineer, clearly before she left, uh, we were in talks about this becoming a, a city way. So, I mean, yeah, at points and a bone of contention, they don't want to take it on, but there's a lot of, a lot of private ways in this town. Uh, a lot of them in Ward two. Uh, this is just one of many. So, uh, I, I would like to be able to spend some money on the street to get it up to where it should be. Has that always been there? Because I mean, all of the city, you'll find small sections
where there's a connection and it's been like that forever. This one's been there since the 18 hundreds. Okay. And it's always, So if you go by the last 25, 30 years makes a property, it's been maintained by the city for that long length of time. I don't see why it can't become a city way. How long of a stretch is that? Again? About 150, 200 feet. That's not much. But it's just that connection between the two sides. What it is, is it's a dead end. It just goes off of Clinton and dries in so that four houses have driveways off of this main drag. So it's a, it's a viable access for them. Yeah. Okay. It is the only access for the four houses.
Uh, council figure. Have they given you specific reasons or specific things they wanna see done before they would accept it as a No, they've given me no specifics other than a negative answer. So They just say no and say no. And when you question them, they don't tell you Why. They say it's not a private way, it's a driveway. They're saying it's a shared driveway, but then they have driveways off Of it. It's not on anybody's deed. That's a shared driveway. Right. That's, and it shows on all their deeds that that's been there since the 18 hundreds. So, so to me it's, it's to,
I don't understand, other than they just don't wanna spend the money on that little street, which to me is not fair to, to the people that live there. Right. Thank you. So thank you. I, I think, I think they're legal questions, but fortunately you don't have to be lawyers, you're planners. So from a make a recommendation from a planning perspective and leave the physical conditions of the engineer and the legal stuff to the law department and all that,
I was just curious, I know I'm not a lawyer, but I was just curious as to what they, their thinking was As to what Yeah, I mean, it's clearly not straightforward. Like most streets that have a defined layout, this kind of shows it running over different people's properties. So it's, I'm not sure how you get there, but Who paved it? Uh, from my, from my knowledge, the city paved it the first time, but that's been many, many years ago. I'm just saying if the city took responsibility to pave it, I know the city has patched it. I've asked the dpw,
I don't know how old this picture is, but it, it definitely needed some Patch, hot patch. And they've done that. I mean, yeah. Questions, comment. So I I do have another question. I'm sorry. Um, what difference is it gonna make to the residents if it is accepted as a public way? How is you say it's being plowed, it's being maintained and, um, what will change? What more will the residents get if it, They'll get it. The street is in need of repair at this point. Okay.
So they will be able to get it fixed by the city. Okay. I thought you said the city had been up there and, and patched it. Done. Well, not on an official capacity to the point where they've redone the whole street. Okay. They'll fill a pothole in or something like that. I mean, it, it is just temporary. Whatever they've done. And it's been out of the goodness of the DP W's heart that they did it. I see. Thank you. You're Welcome. Go ahead. Got a comment. Say it. Um, no, I'm seeing this is a proposal to,
to build the road for, you know, it's just, That's What it looks like, Jay. We're making a recommendation. Right, Right. You along with city engineer. The board of public works. Yeah. The whole, the usual street petition process, Making a recommendation. Do you have any information counselor about the annual cost to maintain one of our city streets? No, I don't size. You don't have any, don't have any ballpark figures what it would be? No, because it's being maintained. I mean, it's being plowed and the trash is being picked up. Mm-hmm. But to me, the taxpayers Won. So that won't, to me,
the taxpayers add to the, those costs. No, those costs are being incurred by the city. They already are. So the only costs would be whatever it takes to put pavement down. I, I, I understand what legal is saying. Okay. But this is New England. There's a, there's a million of these little roads everywhere. The city's plowing it, the city's patching it, you know, these, they are taxpayers. Um, you know, you know, I, like I said, I understand
what the city's saying, the, the law department's saying, but this is New England. There's a million of these roads. I mean, we, we approved, basically approved, if it weren't for it being a dirt road up off of East Mountain. Okay. That one got approved and it was the same with us. This, so I'd be, I'd be in favor of it. Again, we're making a recommendation. Do you want me to do that now? Mm-hmm. So I'd like to make a positive recommendation to accept Belvedere Gardens as a public road To City council. We'll, second We have, we have a first and second.
So I, all those in favor? I Are we, are we doing a roll Call or do we wanna do a roll call? I don't know. However you wanna do It. I'm asking. I don't think we need to. I think we'll be able to determine between the eyes and the nays. Okay. Whether it's, you know, so yeah, Just one thing. You know, there's a water main down told the Deer Drive. Mm-hmm. So if, if we were to ever service that, we would have to dig it up. Um, so it probably should be a city street
or a city way of some sort. That's a valid point. So we have a positive recommendation on the table. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? We have a unanimous recommendation. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. You're welcome. Good luck. Uh, next on the agenda, potential rezoning for Abner Gibbs school site vicinity, west Silver Street. I'm assuming you're saying for this too. Yep. Okay. Um, so, um, mayor asks that,
that we look at this, the whole former school building, um, probably it's only reasonable reuse as apartments similar to Mosley School. Um, but it's single family zoning right now, so it would not allow for more than one unit. It should be a big house. Um, so we would need to change the zoning to facilitate, um, that being reused. Um, and so that's, that's a shot of zoning of the area right now.
Residence a, a tiny little commercial. A I think back to that 1988 plan. Uh, I think to capture the market. But there are all those areas in red are currently non-conforming uses that don't conform to the zone they're in. So there's a lot of two families in the residence. A, um, three family in the residence. B and then there's also a commercial use in the residence. A so, um, you know, if we just think about kind of small scale thinking, where are we here? We would just kind of rezone the Abner Gibbs site to a
multifamily capacity, which would be residency. Um, that looks like a spot zone. You know, it's not a, doesn't make kind of a logical type of zoning map, but it's certainly something that could be proposed and not deal with anything else or try to bring the whole area into compliance. Um, for example, if we expanded that commercial, a zone that's already there, capture, capture the office building that's at the other end of the street. Commercial a allows for single family drawings, allows for apartments.
So it allow for a more diverse use of the area. And it kind of creates a commercial, little commercial node in some respects that's already there. And maybe in, you know, maybe as part of the school redevelopment, it could be a low coffee shop or something, um, of a more commercial nature. So that would bring all those non-conforming uses in that immediate area into conformity if we were to add that neighborhood commercial zone. Um, another option would be, you know, if you didn't think commercial opportunities would be appropriate, there is maybe just
to expand that residency, uh, to capture some of those two family uses and expand that residence b on the other side of the street, there'd still be some non-conforming areas that office, office building would still be non-conforming. The three family would be non-conforming in in residence B, but, um, tends to look a little less like a spot zoning, like a little more of a, uh, deliberate type of zoning map. Um, again, this area is already developed, so, you know,
it's more or less coloring the map. It's really just inspired by the potential redevelopment of the school building. So the board can propose this to council or we could send, you know, reach out to a counselor or counselors and have them sponsor the, the zone change. I obviously would come back here for a hearing once, once, uh, it's more formal, but this is just kind of a early, early discussion. If I had my way, I'd probably, probably like the little commercial a note. Yeah. Kind of a little bit of a village center, which is
I think how that commercial a zone was envisioned. That's concept two. Concept two, is it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I like that one. And again, there is already a commercial, a zone in there. It covers part of the market. Um, doesn't cover its parking lot or the front part where the sign is like it should, but Okay. So maybe, you know, this would be small scale stuff. 'cause you know, maybe a barber shop or something could open here. It's not like, it's not like there's gonna be a Walmart or anything like that. Targets not Coming. Yeah, probably not. Maybe something like the mill building that they did
with little different shots in there. Is that what you're talking About? Well, there'd be the opportunity. I think from a practical standpoint it would probably be housing. Yeah. But there's, it would be an opportunity for some type of small scale commercial as well. Okay. Thank you Ray. I mean, yes, Ralph, your thoughts? My thoughts is that I'd like to do whatever we can to preserve admirer Gibbs. It is a historical building in the community. Um, I think that housing, turning it into housing is a great idea. We do have a great housing shortage in town, uh, affordable housing. We've had other schools
that have been turned into apartments that have been very successful. So I would hate to see this, this building tore down. I, I'd like to see it reutilized in, in its most efficient manner. And I think that expanding the commercial part, the second plan that was presented makes a lot of sense and allows for a lot of different opportunities. Um, You could have some, some little stores or, uh, shops or something on the first floor at having Gibbs and then have the housing on the second. I mean, you have more options, more, uh, ways
of developing or redeveloping this property. I think it's important to the, to the neighborhood. Uh, I don't see it as a, personally, I don't see it as an issue because it's gonna be at a big apartment building. We have one right here on Court Street that just the professional building turned into apartments. And that's in, in a mixed, mixed area of the court, the court district. But I think that, uh, the second proposal, the commercial makes a lot of sense. More opportunities Just confirming Jay, that the second proposal, commercial A we can, it can become multifamily housing.
Yeah. Commercial A allows for multifamily in the same capacity as residency. Uh, but it also allows for small scale, you know, like, like it was envisioned the the neighborhood store beauty parlor or that type of stuff. Obviously there's already a neighborhood store, but there could be other, it's a little more flexibility. So, and it is a fairly, you know, busy type of area. Well, I would think the person who turned Mosley's school into those apartments,
this is the same building, would have a ready made plan that they could that was so successful. That's just my thought. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You can't do that with residency. So I think minimally we need to rezone that school site Right. To commercial A. Absolutely. Yeah. I I would much rather have commercial A there than industrial. Yeah. Okay. Looking for a motion Is a, it's a recommendation. Looking for For a recommendation. Yeah. It's, it's a discussion now. So either the board can propose this
or, I mean, maybe it's more appropriate to communicate your recommendation to the ward counselors and maybe they wanna sponsor it. Um, that would relieve me of having to go to council again. We have, Yeah, what I watched It wasn't as fun as I thought it And I'd be happy to work with you to sponsor that. Jay. I, I like, I really like the commercial aid. I think it's the right way of doing this. So we, we don't have to make a motion. We can just talk amongst us and Well, I mean if that's, that's the consensus the board supports. Um, I can draft something up for the Councilor Fige
and if he wants to co-sponsor they can start the ball rolling. I, I, I would be a vote for cons. Having them adopt concept two I, I can't speak for everybody else, but I think it's, it makes sense and took all the red out. So a lot of stuff would definitely, uh, Work in that Area. Yeah. It'll make it, Well I think that the transition from residence B to residence A where that commercial and middle makes sense. It's, it is a transitional area. Uh, it kind of cleans it up a little bit and it gives you some flexibility. Plus it gets rid of all the
confusion we've got in there now. So I kind of think the second one's a good, good move too. So are you looking for a formal proposal? Whatever the board wants to do. So, like I said, you can formally propose this and that would make the board the sponsor of it or like council figure's willing to put it in council. So I could propose that we recommend that this be rezoned to commercial A and ask counselor to sponsor it in the city council for us. Yeah. He seems amenable, so, okay. It can go that route.
Alright. That's my recommendation. Do I hear a second on James? Because I agree with Jane. I absolutely agree with Jane. There is many, there's many benefits to allowing some small businesses in there. Mm-hmm. And the use of the building as, as apartments. Okay. Especially the proximity to the school. Okay. I, I think is, and proximity to the, uh, to Noble hospital I think is, um, a very, very, is very good for the city. So
I Need a second on James. Um, recommendation. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? We're done. Thank you for sponsoring that. Thank you. Won't Be tomorrow. Um, Oh, Next meeting. Is it? You said We have no, again, we have no hearings. We have no hearings next meeting as well. Uh, Jay can't make our annual, um, um, December sit in. So we're gonna replace next meeting
with our sitting up in room three 15. Okay. Our, um, our round robin our round table discussions. Okay. Okay. So it'd be, uh, maybe a good opportunity to review the master plan and, Um, yes. And especially bring up anything that is of concern that we should be talking about. Yeah, I I, one of the things that I I think would be perfect to discuss are the ADUs. Um, and I'm gonna use an example, uh, when we approved, and I, I'm all for this. Don't, I don't want anybody thinking I'm against it, even though I live on F Drive. Uh, they're putting in, um, the 20 homes in there now.
And as of right now, I know of three ADUs going in there. And I think it's a great idea. I mean, I'm an empty nester. I would love to downsize, but I, I really can't find for the price of if my kids, I think it's a great idea. And so I, I could see another 10, a another seven jumping on top of that, knowing the people that are moving into there. So I think we have to, uh, be prepared. 'cause in the master plan from 2023 ADUs weren't even in our vocabulary. Right? So I think we have to just, just maybe talk about that and, and kind of monitor this along with that. So I think it's a great thing. A are a great thing.
Um, yeah, we, it did mention in tiny houses and in the, in the master plan a little bit, but it didn't, obviously didn't foresee the state kind of mandating. Um, I will say Nathaniel Hill. So that is, is frozen by a earlier zoning provision that doesn't allow AEDs 'cause of a subdivision rules. Um, but the owners can waive that and go with the current rules that allow you to use. It's a little zoning curiosity, but Okay. If we have Anything we want to discuss, let's get a, just shoot an email to Jay.
Okay. Uh, room three 15. Yeah, we'll try to get room three 15. Okay. So anything else you wanna discuss? Do I get a motion to adjourn? Motion or adjourn? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Second Bill. C. See you all. Next meeting.