Yeah. Good evening everybody. It is seven o'clock. We are calling the Tuesday, November 18th, 2025, planning board meeting to order. Um, first on the agenda is public participation on any matter, not subject to a public hearing. That is review and approval of previous min meeting minutes. We have the 10 21, um, on our shared guide. I'll make a motion to accept the minutes from, um, 10 21 second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Next on the agenda is review of plans.
Um, no, um, I'm sorry. Next on the agenda's, public hearings and possible deliberations decisions on, um, so we're starting our public hearings as I do every session. Uh, today we, uh, we have, um, zoning, special permits and or site plan approvals. After the applicant's present, their proposal board members will begin asking their questions. We will then invite the public to ask questions of fact. We will have a separate time for the public to speak in favor of or speak against emotions.
When we recognize you, please come to the microphone, give your name and address, and direct all questions and comments to the board. The purpose of our public hearings is to allow the board members to collect evidence and testimony supporting or contradicting the public publish legal findings. We are required to make, to approve and deny an application. We cannot act outside the bounds of the zoning ordinance, nor the storm water ordinance we're also sought. Please understand, public hearings are not a community referendum nor a town meeting. We ask you to keep your comments civil and positive. Remembering, we're all neighbors working
to move Westfield forward. While you are free to express your opinion, ultimately and legally, the board can only deliberate on the findings of fact not on yours or our personal opinions. First on the agenda is Patrick Smith for a special permit per zoning ordinance section four dash 22, lot size averaging to create two building lots from 3 75 Holyoke Road Zone residential aid. Um, Uh, I'd like to make a, uh, disclosure to the, uh, the group. I, uh, I called the, uh, state Ethics Board
to let them know and get some advice about my son working for, uh, being one of the many employees at our Lavec Associates. And they directed me to fill out a, uh, disclosure form by non-elected municipal employee. I have since done so, turned it into my appointing authority, and it was signed and approved. Are you ready? Noted. Thank you, sir. Uh, good evening for the record. I'm Rob Leveque from Mar Leve Associates here this evening with me is Pat Smith right back here.
Um, this is a lot size averaging special permit request. So we've submitted, um, a special permit request to utilize the existing property, um, with one single family home on it and create two additional lots. So the property, um, it's okay. Jay, do you have, do you have my PDF? It might be easier for them to see on the bigger, bigger One. Awesome. Is it, if it pleases the chair, I'll just go over there with the mic. All right. So what we're looking at is a little bit bigger on the screen.
It don't break this thing. Okay. Sorry. Um, so Driver Ridge Road is located here. Holyoke Road is here, and Sandy Hill Road is here. This is kind of at the nexus of all these streets. So there's a bunch of frontage for the subject property. Um, with the lot size averaging, we are allowed, uh, by special permit to secure a special permit to do an a and r lot that would allow for the existing structure to remain on its own lot. Eight, about 18,000 square feet. Lot two would be a new, uh,
parcel created, a new lot created. They would propose a single family home to be accessed off of Dry Bridge Road. And then lot three, and, and I'm sorry, back to lot two is about 19,000 square feet. And then lot three would be about 17,000, actually really about 18,000 square feet. Um, and that would be accessed off of Sandy Hill. The, the really, the only real trick to this in the geometry of the lots is that we provided a strip of land that would be owned in fee by lot two, so that there is no cross country easement required to bring the water from Sandy Hill Road.
Um, if you remember, there was one up off of, uh, south Hampton Road that we had a, um, a water easement concern. So in order to avoid that this time, um, we're just basically providing that strip. Fairly straightforward. The calculations are in your application. I don't believe there were any specific comments that I saw. Um, also there is a, um, a proposed residential structure that they, an anticipate building something close to. So, so again, the existing house will remain and there will be, and they'll, you know,
be working on that. And then the additional two lots would have single family homes similar to what you see in the, in the graphic represented. I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Robert, just a quick question. Are both of the houses going to be the same or they're gonna build to suit? Um, a, A similar, the house, Similar Different colors, but similar structures. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. What, what is the square feet of the house, please? Approximately? Um, can you, can you please come to the microphone name, address? Thank you. So, um, my name is Pat Smit, um, square footage,
um, I think they're in the region Of 23 2400 square feet. Okay, thank you. Yeah. I'm showing three houses here. One at 3000. Where is it? One at 3026 square feet. Oh, no, I'm sorry. 1,943. Mm-hmm. One at 8 92 and another one at 8 92. Which ones are the new houses? I'm not sure what we're looking at. I think we only have the, the lots shown, um, on the plan. So there should be, let me see here. Yeah, so on our, on our plan, we only have
the lot sizes shown. The building footprints as depicted, um, from Mr. Smith are on the plan, but those are the footprints. So the, there's some square footage on the second floor. So the total square footage, I believe is about 2300 square feet. Yeah. Or so does that Go from memory? Yes. Okay. I have it on here. It's 1754. Yeah, because I got it right here. What, where is that in the app or the, uh, Right, right below the Photo on this site. Hi, Jake. Who? Sorry,
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So is it two thousand two thousand two thousand ish? 2300. 2300 is the rough, but what was the, I'm not sure what we're referring to. Should drive just a little off. We got it. So you're basically keeping that the houses there on Oil Road, you're gonna keep that as is pretty much. If I don't like the rest of that lot, I, I've been up there and he's gonna have one of the homes with the driveway on drive bridge the other with, uh, a home on the driveway on Sandy Hill. Yes, sir. It's a nice little lot there. It's not a heavy, heavy traffic other than Holyoke Road.
And, and I thought it, in my opinion, it looked like a nice spot square footage. Yeah, we're here to talk about that. So I think to clarify the building coverage, uh, 1,943 square feet, that's the coverage. So that's the footprint of the building, of the existing structure. The 8 92 that you see for the new structures is just the footprint wouldn't be the total square footage. I think that's where, I apologize, didn't know where you're pulling from. Thank you. Small. Any other comments, questions? Anybody in the public have a con a question of fact?
Anybody in the PO public wanna speak for or against this? I Anything else? Yeah, the, uh, the lot sizes you listed 'em at, uh, 1800. 1700, 1918, would that in that zoning area need 20,000 square foot? We both, all sewer and water, so, Yeah. So without a lot size averaging special permit. Okay. So that's what the special permit's all about. Lot size averaging. So the, the granting of the special permit is a prerequisite for being able
to create those lots at that Size. Create those lots. Okay. Yep. We have a draft decision, Um, Subject property 3 75 Holyoke Road. That's the parent parcel draft conditions. One, the lot shall be created, laid out in general conformance with submitted special permit filing plan prepared by our Beck Associates dated 9 24 25 2. The new dwelling shall be constructed in a style in size, generally conforming with the submitted house plans. Imagery covered entry three to compensate for loss
of green space, at least two shade trees shall be retained or installed two inch minimum caliber at planting and maintained within the lots front yard area, abutting dry bridge and sandy hill roads, trees in the adjoining, uh, street rights away with city approval shall satisfy this condition. Four. The rights granted by the special permit are twofold, creation and reduction of the, of the lots for which this permit shall have been deemed to be substantially used Upon recording of the lot plan
at the registry of deeds, such plan shall describe the book and page in which this special permit is recorded. And b, new dwelling construction, commencement of which shall be subject to the three year time limit for action as pursuant to general conditions, all our other draft conditions. Are there Anything we want to add? Do I have a, um, motion to close public hearing? I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Bernie. Oh, whoa.
Oh, do I hear a motion? Sorry. Jumping the gun. I about the close, that's why I said yes. I'll make a motion to approve the special permit as presented to the board for Hoya Grove. Second. Okay. So now we get a roll call. Bernie. Yes. John? Yes. Jane? Yes. Phil? Yes. Ray? Yes. Cheryl? Yes. And I am a yes. Thank you. Next on
the agenda is Cycle Street redevelopment, LLC For site plan approval, storm water permit for zoning, ordinance six dash 10 and four dash one 10 to develop a warehouse at zero cycle Street Parcel 21 dash 32 dash one a. Zoned industrial a Uh, good evening again for the record. Rob Levek from our Levek Associates here this evening, representing Cycle Street, um, redevelopment, LLC. So this is a property that you have seen before. This is the, generally the property of the Columbia,
former Columbia manufacturing and continued portion of the building is used as Columbia Manufacturing. Uh, as you are likely aware, there's a significant amount of land, uh, that's zoned for industrial purposes within the subject property. Uh, this is a portion thereof. Um, we are here this evening to, um, Uh, permit a 40,000 square foot, uh, commer, um, I'm sorry, industrial warehouse building. Um, this is for, uh, the use, um, of a fasteners building.
Um, the, the owner is here this evening with us. This is not something that we don't have a tenant for. Um, Arol Fasteners is a local, um, business that's been in the community for, uh, decades now. Um, Jim Avery is here with us this evening as well as Brad Moyer, his attorney, um, and Derek Keeley from the One Development Group. So they are, uh, our team, uh, that's with us this evening to kind of explain the project. But essentially what this is, is this is a buy right use, uh, for a 40,000 square foot warehouse for a building
and a use that we know, um, how it's gonna work, which is kind of nice for once. Um, so Jim Avery, uh, originally had his business on, um, union Street, um, then expanded onto Service Star Industrial Way, and is now, uh, the business has been successful and now they're looking to, um, to relocate to this location. Um, Jim is here this evening and can certainly, um, you know, communicate with you with regard to the logistics of the building, but the nice thing is the, the traffic component of this is pretty light. Uh, and we know that because we have, uh, daily operations
and we'll be able to get into that. Um, the site is pretty straightforward. Um, what we're planning on doing is we're wrapping the building with a parking lot. Uh, we're keeping most of the parking, uh, to the north and east side of the proposed building. The gray on the plan or the, or the terracotta color on the plan is the building itself. It's generally a square, 40,000 square feet, excuse me. And then just to the north of our parking lot or top of the page, we have a, a very subtle stormwater basin that's required to meet the stormwater management standards. Uh, we have been, uh, submitted all of our plans
through Joe Kitner to the engineering department. I believe we were gonna receive something. I haven't seen something maybe Jay has. Um, he could certainly speak to that. Um, but we have responded to some minor comments and questions from the planning department. Certainly have, uh, responded to the engineering department. Um, feel that we've addressed all the items. Uh, specifically I would be happy to get into a letter that was, uh, submitted by your planner and some of the minor comments that we have. Um, but generally speaking, you know, knowing that this is probably of interest of some folks in the neighborhood, uh, appropriately,
before I get into any detail, just check with the chair, make sure that you don't have any, um, other specific questions, or do you want to take any other dialogue at this point? That's good. No, we're good to Go. Okay. Um, so, you know, basically it's a, it's a pretty straightforward use. We have, uh, certain components of the building that are gonna be for office. The majority of the building will be for the warehouse. We have one loading dock located, uh, we'll call it on the southwest corner of the building. Um, there's two at grade doors as well. They get a number of deliveries. Um, most of the deliveries, um,
are just small vehicles a few times a day. Um, and then there's, you know, periodic, uh, tractor trailer trucks that need to be able to get in there, but they're very sparing. Um, I do believe Jim Avery is here to speak to that. You want to just kind of just talk about the operation a little bit? Sure. Is that okay? Sure. Great. Thanks. Um, good evening. Uh, my name is Jim Avery. I own Aero Fasteners. I've done that now for about 40 years. And, uh, we have just been blessed. We started off at Union Street on 10,000 square feet.
We went up to Service Star, and now we're looking to build this. Our traffic mostly comes from deliveries from UPS or FedEx, or DHL. Those are the small vans, the brown vans that we see all over time. Uh, occasionally we'll get a semi in, but that is far and few between. Um, currently for the month of November, we have two semis scheduled to for picking up product. That's only two for the whole month. And in December, we'll have one that's the frequency to which we see semi trucks coming into our building. But every day we'll have a drop off by, uh, UPS and a pickup by UPS FedEx.
Nobody drops off and picks up at the same time. So on average, we probably have two to four vehicles a day coming into our building. And pretty much that's what they deliver. They deliver a small packages from a pound and a half to 45 pounds. And then on a UPS truck, that could be up to 50 or 60 boxes. And we process that every day. In terms of shipping, we probably ship out orders of about a hundred orders per day, and they range and weight from less than a pound to up to 45 pounds. But that's our maximum shipping weight is 45 pounds. If you have any questions about that, I'll be happy to expand.
When, when Mr. Avery, when you ship out, how do you ship them out? Uh, U-P-S-U-P-S, FedEx or DHL. So That's one of the trucks that are coming in, and they'd be picking up those boxes? Yes. Yes ma'am. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, and our deliveries start in the mornings, and the last pickup is a quarter of four in the afternoons. Uh, so everything has to be done between a process time of 8:00 AM to quarter of four in the afternoon. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Just speak to employee All the good ones or all the bad ones? The good ones. Okay. Only the good ones. Okay. Um, we, we currently have a, a staff
of 27 people that work for us. Um, the first gentleman that comes in is, is our, uh, warehouse manager. He's in at 6:00 AM to make sure everything is set up for the staff coming through. Most of the staff arrives at seven 30, except for myself. I'll get in at about nine 30. Most of the staff is gone by four 30. Um, at, at some point there might be someone staying till six o'clock at night, depending if a truck is late. Other than that, those are our standard hours. We work Monday through Friday. There is no second shift. There's no third shift. Um, and it's just a very straightforward operation. Um, what we deal is just a aerospace hardware.
Uh, there's the stuff you could buy at Rocky's, which you just can't put that stuff on a plane. Our stuff is certified. It's made out of titanium 8 2 86, and in Canal, it's very high print. How you value goods. Uh, right now, the building we have, it's full, to be honest with you, there's no more space to grow. Our customers want us to grow. One of the biggest customers we deal with is Gulfstream or Savannah, Georgia. And they will are looking to expand their, their work with us. I need a bigger footprint to support that work and to support the people that are working with us. So that's why we're making this application. Rob, can you go through the, uh, letter, uh,
the questions from the planner? Sure, sure. Okay. So we have a response letter from our Leve Associates responding to the, uh, staff report for zero Cycle Street. Um, there are broken up into who the comments were from. So I'll start with the comments from the city planner. Uh, the project is as proposed is by right, we said, understood. Um, item number two, traffic and noise are likely to be a neighborhood concern. The applicant describes anticipated truck frequency as relatively modest. I think Mr. Avery did a great job of explaining that. And again, um, I think the most traffic will be passenger cars.
And again, just for the, you know, nominal number of of employees they've described, um, the proposed facility will operate on a single shift, as Jim mentioned, with working hours from six 8:00 AM 6:00 AM to 5:00 PM Um, delivery activity expected to be between 8:00 AM and 4:00 PM. Um, exterior mechanical equipment has been strategically positioned to minimize noise and is set back from the nearby residential properties to reduce potential impacts. And again, we are fairly well away of from the, um, the neighboring properties as well as, uh, just an
of note for the planning board. It's really a conservation matter, but we have been able to cite this building well outside the wetland resource areas and their buffer zones as we were not able to do with the last project. So it's quite an improvement and a lot of that vegetation associated with those areas will re well, all of that vegetation will remain. So there'll be a nice buffer. Item number three. Recent, uh, research has suggested a portion of the site indicated as RC one is in fact commercial. A while this does not impact the project, RC one would have,
uh, required a few of the proposed light poles to be 16 feet max. We said understood. Proposed work within the area designated as RC one as shown on the city of Westfield, GIS, is mostly limited to the stormwater infrastructure. Number four. Um, though not in the aquifer district, the ordinance requires the board to consider the groundwater threats in industrial a district. What type of materials will be used and stored on site? Indoor storage will consist of metal fasteners. Um, there will be no outdoor storage at all. Number five, uh, plans have been submitted
to the fire department, but maximizing emergency access to the building perimeter should be considered on the north side. While there is a gravel path, it would seem inaccessible if a truck is in, in the loading dock, extending the northern side of the parking aisle or providing a reinforced grass area may be desirable. Um, the project team, this is our response. The project team has contacted the fire department. It was determined that access to all sides of the building is not needed based on the type of construction for the proposed use. Separate review comments were received and addressed directly with the fire department. Uh, number six, despite snow area indicated, I anticipate
that the likelihood that snow would be pushed into the stormwater basin areas, thus leaving melt water to bypass treatment structures, adding guardrails might discourage such. We have, uh, since added a guardrail on the revised plans, um, and discourage, we will discourage the snow storage in the stormwater basins for sure. Um, and we could, you know, if they wanted a sign or something, that wouldn't be an issue. Um, number seven, the applicant may wish to request and the g and e should consider adding a street light to the pole at the, uh, cycle Street Cleveland intersection.
We said, understood. The applicant will coordinate directly with g and e. Number eight, neighborhood has sidewalks. So adding a pedestrian connection to the walkway to the site is logical. Plus, as always, bicycle parking accommodations should be provided. Um, we added a bike rack and we certainly, you know, wanna make sure pedestrian access, uh, to cycle street is logical. We do believe that most, most of Mr. Avery's employees will be coming in by passenger car. If I may rob. Um, the intent of that was
that someone could walk from the outside into the property without having to walk along the drive aisle, not necessarily the city, city sidewalk. Gotcha. Okay. Um, so our response was the site plan would be revised to show a bike rack, even though we spelled it rake. Um, and, uh, the a DA ramp at the curb ramp to allow for pedestrian access from the existing sidewalk along Cycle Street. Um, number nine, per the board rules and policies, trees should be provided at the rate of one per 50 feet of frontage into the front yard with 271 feet of frontage
and three existing trees, three new trees should be added. Landscaping plan has been revised to include the, uh, street frontage trees. And, and, um, again, on that one, just so there are two trees that show up on the layout plan that are actually being demol or removed. So it's a little confusing to have them on the, on the plan. But if those two are being also removed, then I, then the total number of trees would be six. Okay. So we're, we're happy to provide the appropriate, you know, number of trees based on any removal or any requirements. Um, number 10, also,
given the adjacent residential neighborhood, robust shrub planting should be incorporated into the frontage to better soften screen. Uh, the additional, I'm sorry, the addition of the industrial building. So our response is a six foot, uh, vinyl stockade fence is proposed for screening the basin wall. And the northern portion of the site should be clear of woody shrubs. So we don't wanna plant the basin wall itself. We don't want any undermining of the actual basin, even though it's a very subtle, um, mound, we'll call it. Uh, but we do have the six foot stock gate fence that we think will screen things pretty well. And then again, you have the, you have the fence,
the stormwater basin, a little bit of area between the parking and the stormwater basin, and then the parking, and then landscaping, and then the building. Again, everything's inside. We're not building anything in there at this point. It's just moving, you know, fasteners around. Uh, and then again, my, my thoughts on that were to beef up the plantings along the street. So there might be some shrubs intermixed to soften the visual impact of the facility from the neighborhood. Um, I mean, pushing the detention basin up to the edge of the property and then saying there's no room for shrubs is maybe not the best, I think justification,
but it was more about the, uh, visual impact from the neighborhood. Rob, Can I speak? Yeah, sure. I'm Derek Keeley with one development construction, uh, the design bill contract and this, so as you pull into this property, you'll see when we get to the elevation views, uh, views, we are decorating the front of the building with 10 feet of split face block. And then it is an architectural IMP vertical panel that goes up, um, one to meet strict energy compliance requirements. And two, because they are aesthetic, they are a ripped panel. Um, so the idea that you're just getting like one
of these old pre-engineered metal buildings with the ugly metal siding, this is far better than that. Um, I encourage you to go on our website and look at a project I did up in Deerfield called New Pro, similar look we're going for here, right? So, um, I understand wanting to screen it, but the client is also proud of their building and the way it's gonna display from the road. So we don't want to block any view from the road, if possible. 'cause he's proud of his property, he wants to display his property. Thank you. Yeah. Can I ask a quick question? Sure. You said where and did you say Deerfield? Deerfield, mass. Yeah, it was called, uh, new Crow and New Grove. Yep.
Thank you. It was built last year. Thank you. It's, it's the north side that is, um, large blank wall right Along here. I think when we get the elevation, you'll see. Sorry Rob, I'm gonna jump ahead a little bit. So this whole area is block up 10 feet. And yes, you'll see this, this is an insulated metal wall now, but it's gonna be white, um, with blue trim. It, it's not a bad looking panel. It's still a big blank mass. That's the Point. So, All right, so we're gonna move on on that one. Um, we can come back to it if you'd like. Um, so we are on to 11.
So just talks about native plantings. Um, our plant list was goofy. We had a, uh, boxwoods not native. And then I think instead of Cornes cusso, we had, uh, something else calling, calling out flowering dogwood. So we have since, uh, explained that to our engineers. Yeah, The, the name's still wrong, but it's closer. All right. Uh, the applicant should confer with the tree warden. Um, as to the proposed work excavation for pipe curving near the 72 inch street tree impact, the root will impact the root zone long-term viability. Um, so basically the tree in question
is called out to be removed. And the demolition and removals plan, the applicant has submitted a tree removal request to the tree warden review and approval is pending on that one. Um, number 13, uh, details on the sign. Um, so the signage was located specifically to greet visitors while entering the site, while remaining visible from the street frontage. All signage will comply with the city's signage regulations, and the sign permit will be sought prior to construction. A depiction of the future tenant signage at their existing location is included below for reference.
So it just gives you a general idea. We have a little excerpt showing that, um, the arrow fastener side number 14, billing elevations. We just talked about the blank mass on the wall, um, or, or, or the, the lack thereof. Um, so a vinyl six foot stockade fence is proposed to screen again. Um, that, that provides a pretty good screen for any adjacent landowners directly adjacent to their property. So that, that it's screened, it's not set back so that, um, it has less impact. It have the most impact, right, uh,
adjacent to the property line. Um, and again, we, we don't want to plant on the basin wall. Um, number 15, plan calls for installation of eight inch RCP pipe. And Cleveland is RCP even available an eight inch. Of course, all work within the public way will require DPW approval. Um, the drainage utility plan will be revised to show eight inch HDPE, which actually on another project they've accepted, um, to be reviewed and approved by DPW. I'm not sure, uh, I haven't seen the DPW comments, so hopefully we'll have, uh, you know, something
that Jay can explain that Joe Kitner has put together. Uh, on number 16, uh, stormwater review is pending. Again, hopefully Mr. Kitner has sent that. I did not. Yeah, that the board has that email. Okay, great. Um, and then property owner is aware of the monitoring wells on site and is coordinating, um, directly. And again, they're coordinating directly with the LSP, um, that has been hired not only, uh, in the past, but they're also ongoing monitoring and requirements for the property for. And then, um, the aprons, where am I here,
just wanna make sure I didn't skip a page here. And it says, take a look at the aprons leading to the basin. The Southern most apron is much larger than the northern apron. So we've revised or will be revising the apron, um, on the plans prior to the construction plan set D PW DPW comments, the hydrant will be replaced with a new hydrant. That's one item. Um, number 18, the fire flow test to confirm that the water system can accommodate the proposed fire protection system. Please see the attached fire flow report.
So we provided that, so that's satisfactory. Um, number 19, a purchase and sale agreement addresses the easement in question, basically across the, uh, approval, not required, uh, plans and, uh, the, you know, future division of the property here. Um, so the purchase and sale agreement provides, uh, clarification of how that will work. Number 20, a proposed water quality unit should be relocated downstream. Um, the adjacent landowner, big factory, LLC, which is the, um, Columbia Manufacturing facility owned, um, you know,
again by big factory LLC, but essentially Columbia Manufacturing, um, will be renovated in expanding their facility in the future. Um, and as they do that, upgrades to the drainage connection from said property would be premature at this time and may change based on future plans. So there's a drainage connection that comes from the adjacent property, um, just downstream of where our water quality unit is. Um, we would be handling that upstream water, um, through the installation of a future water quality unit at
that, you know, once we know exactly what their plans would be in the future for that other area. And that's, uh, one more page here. The, uh, damaged AC pipe in the right of way on Cleveland. Um, confirmed that the contractor will make the necessary repairs. The contractor will make the necessary repairs unless the city wants to do it. Um, hydro, uh, hydro flow, storm sewer extension. Um, just, there's some numbers that needed clarification. They reviewed the numbering in the stormwater report and revised as necessary. Um, and then number 23,
applicant shall secure the following permits from DPW prior to construction. And we understand all of those, those permits, those are various permits related to the DPW, um, and, you know, working in their street service connections, et cetera. So we will certainly address those through the process. Any questions related to those comments? Mr. Chairman, do you have possibly have the letter from Mr. Kitner? Is that possible to read into the record or have it? Um, yep. I could read it or So. Um, it's an email, um, through city email from Joseph Kitner,
dated 11 18 25, 3 12:00 PM to Jay Vinky. Good afternoon, Jay. I reviewed the response, the responses from our Lebec associates regarding the Cycle Street project. I'm satisfied with the response and recommend the stormwater permit approval from the planning board. Joe Kitner, assistant city engineer, civil engineer, engineering department. Thank you. Question from the board, Robert. It looks like there's a fence all the way around the property. Is there any connection to the Columbia location for emergencies or anything? Any connection for what? I'm sorry, the last part
For, in the parking lot for emergencies, if the driveway was blocked, is there a way to cut through there? No, there's a couple access points for Columbia. So we, we weren't planning on having access come through the subject property. Okay. For Columbia. They have a couple different access points and gates, um, as well as access off of at least two streets there. On the far side, I guess it's gonna be the east side. There's another street back there, the dirt road. I forget the name of it. South, south Meadow Road. Oh, through the back? Yeah. Okay. There's a curb cut or, or two back there.
Thank you. Yep. You're not gonna change where the gate is now. That gate that sits there now is pretty, I mean, what I'm getting at is you're gonna go straight down Cleveland straight into the parking Lot, correct? Yeah, I think the gate changes slightly, but yes, correctly we're going straight down. Straight shot. Yeah. The white stockade fence is gonna be where along Cleveland? Uh, it was vinyl. I don't know if it'll be white. I don't know if there's some more appropriate color like to, or something like that. But, you know, um, that would be around the perimeter of the stormwater basin along the north side of the site. Um, and then it transitions
to chain link at a, at a few different points. But adjacent to the ne residential neighbors, it's, it would be stock aid. I can, and I can detail that, you know, if we want to zoom in, we could, we could show you that if you'd like. I don't no, you're good. Good. Yeah. It's just on the, along the neighbor, not along the street. It's Labeled, it's along the neighbor, not along the street. Right. Okay. Along the residential neighbor to the north, Right? Yeah. But along the street, what's gonna be there? Chain link. Chain link. Okay. Black File. It'll be black final coated along that stretch.
And then it'll transition to galvanized or on the backside where, where there's no one or Any chance of shrubbery on the outside of the chain link or anything like that. Any chance of a tree, anything to break that up? To keep, uh, to keep the residential field of the street? It does have a nice residential field. Yep. I, I, I don't think we'd be drastically opposed to it if there was something requested by the planning board, but, you know, obviously it's outside the fence. Um, and, you know, they'll maintain that area. Mm-hmm. Um, so if, you know, if there was a request,
I don't think it would be unreasonable as long as it's not too expensive. 'cause I probably just bought myself some shrubs. I mean, the ordinance does require trees and quote and ornamental shrubs along the frontages. Um, I, I only recommend, I would recommend strawberry because your, your drain line is fairly close to the curb line there. And the problem we had was with the larger trees, the roots actually grew through your storm water drain. That's why we're going into the road to repair 'em. So I wouldn't want anything with deep roots, uh, along the roadway there, because it will create a city issue later on down the road. Thank you.
So what would you recommend Shrubs of some sort? Small shrubs, tall shrubs, Medium shrubs, Like about no more than four feet. Nine. I, I'm not a landscaper. So it's the three bears. It's the three bears. We'd be open to suggestions on shrubs. Something that doesn't have a deep root ball Though. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we could easily do that if there was a number that was, you know, recommended. Okay. And then we can, you know, work with your planner on, you know, making sure the species are,
are good and they're comfortable in the neighborhood. Okay. Thoughts on that? People I About the trees or about the fence in the back? Well, well let's talk about the, the fence along the street right now, they don't want trees because it'll grow into the, um, into the city lines, which I understand. So do we want to, um, ask for shrubs? I went the wall of the board and then we can talk about the fence along the back line. Or do you wanna talk about that now? Not the shrub person. Well, I'm not the shrub person, but as far as the fence goes in the back, I,
I don't think we need any shrubs back there. 'cause it's a trees and a field back there. I think some screening's not a bad idea on the, just on the street side. 'cause you already have, what is it? A stockade fence? Uh, trying to get a little hand to tell me what it's six foot stocking fence against the next property. Your total is about two 70 Along that, uh, Along both streets. Uh oh. Oh yeah. So I mean, I think there's enough space to do something with trees and or shrubs. Um, not, not be too worried about the drain line.
It won't be our problem when it breaks. It's gonna take a while for those trees to get big And it won't be asbestos pipe. That's true. I'll be, i'll be ground roots by then. Let's hope not. Um, so John, you're talking the fence line. So you asked About the, the trails or the fence line that separates the, the back fields going towards, I thought you were talking about the back field where the cabinet's fence is gonna be. I don't know that we need to beautify something that no one's ever gonna see. Rob, can you point to it? Point to the two fence lines
that John and I are talking about? Sure. So this is the perimeter of the property, right? Right. As being created through the approval, not required plan. Um, the fence line would go around that. Uh, there's land owned by big factory, LLC that will remain around that. And there's a significant wetland resource area off to what we'll call the northwest. Um, there's also an embankment that comes down from the rail trail that, that houses a, an electric easement that kind of runs right through here
and then more land and then land of a farmer. I think it's Arnold, um, down to the south. And then this land is all a big factory. So this is all wooded in here. There's some old concrete that will be coming out, but there's, this is all wooded in here. And then we have Columbia. So really on, I would say on the west, south and east sides. There's really no, um, no one to screen from the, on the north side for sure. Where we talked about the stock gate fence. Um, then they want to be able to see the nice building that's gonna be constructed.
So we have a chain, a nice, um, vinyl coated black chain link fence in the front. And then it'll transition to galvanize around the perimeter. Is are shrubbery on the galvanized around the perimeter or is there trees or anything like that? There's Existing vegetation to remain. We're not just existing vegetation, correct? Yeah, it's pretty thick. It's, you know, even truth be told, there's some vegetation growing up through the old parking lot. So I mean, it's re-vegetated significantly around this area. Mm-hmm. Um, and certainly will remain. John, what were you talking about? Where I was, I was talk, I was saying on the south side.
Mm-hmm. There's no need for any kind of trees or bushes because it's a galvanized fence in The field and there is no, there is no shrubbery, um, trees or bushes on the south side. Right. It's just existing. Yes. Actual vegetation. There's, there's mature trees and, and as well as, you know, More scrubbing. But you're not planting, you're not planting those No, No new plantings. Outside fence. Yeah. No new plantings. John, we were just talking, I thought you said that. Oh, we're just talking about along these streets in the neighborhood. So this upper corner. Okay, so we're talking about the north End, the front face of the property.
I'm good with that. 'cause I agree with you. There's no reason along the embankment and there's no reason on the south side. I mean, that's wide open fields and the embankment is the embankment. I agree with you there. So, So we would be happy to provide the shrub plantings and if tree plantings are desirable, um, you know, to the requirement, you know, along the frontage j do you every 50 feet or something That's the board's policy? Yeah. Or, or the average of 50 feet so they could be clustered together and whatever. Rob, that uh, fence, uh,
that's gonna be on Cycle Street there. I think you just said it was gonna be a chain link fence right there. Black. Yes, sir. Alright. What there's, right now there's a bunch of piles of, of really good looking dirt there. What are you gonna do with that? That area right there that's behind that fence Right there. So, so this will be a long panel and it will house a very, there's a portion of it that will have, um, what we'll call our swale leading to our, our stormwater basin. So there's a subtle depression here. The rest of that will be lawn. Um, and then these trees that we're proposing Perfect. And
those trees, these trees are outside of our fence here. Yeah. And those are red maples. And then, you know, if we, you know, kind of mimic that on the other side, that might be appropriate. And really, in my opinion, that's where the neighborhood's gonna see. Right. Really what's kind of going on there. Everybody just coming down Cleveland and the folks that live on the other side of the street there. Agreed. Yep. Okay. Any questions from the public? Questions of fact, please come forward. Okay. Just before that. Sure. Companies,
The only question I had is understanding this runs with the land. Is there any additional information you're going to need about who's gonna occupy it that we can address now so we don't delay supplying that information later? State your question again, please. This permit will run with the land. I just wanna make, oh, sorry. Is there any additional information you're gonna put in that, that requires Mr. Avery to give you information about his operation? Or is, will this be all you'll need? So it's just a site plan approvals mostly deals with the physical layout, not so Much the whoever occupies it or, yeah.
So it'll be complete. We don't need anything else tonight or anything else later. Well, it's up to the board If you need More information. I'm just trying to speed it up if you do it so we don't have to come back with more information before we go for financing. That's my concern. Okay. I, I can't, I don't anticipate anything. Okay. But, you know, I hold my options open. Okay. Thank you. But I don't anticipate anything. Okay. We're dealing with the site plan. Thanks. Anybody in the public please come forward. Mr. Meow. 27 Mosley Ave. How are you doing? It's been a minute. Um, do you just want me to list them?
Are you ready with a pen or, Go ahead. Okay. No, I, I do this all the time. Okay. Um, how much impervious surface is at site now and how much is being proposed? I'm sorry, what was the question? How much impervious surface Okay. Is there now and how much is proposed? Do you want me to list 'em all first and then get 'em later or, yes, please. Okay. Um, does the board have the right to ask for an environmental impact analysis? This site is a er site that's Resource Conservation and Recovery Act. Uh, regarding that, has the applicant provided proof that the consent decree in the case
of the United States of America versus MTD Products Inc. And Columbia Manufacturing Company, Inc. Civil action number 91 dash 3 0 0 4 4 dash f has been terminated by the US District Court for the District of Massachusetts. Barring that, has, uh, the applicant provided written permission from the US Environmental Protection Agency authorizing the relocation of the monitoring well listed on, uh, application page C3. Has the applicant provided evidence or testimony from a hydrogeologist determining that the stormwater management will not have an effect on
the natural flow of surface or groundwater? Has the applicant provided written permission from the US Environmental? Oh, that's the wrong one. Has the applicant provided evidence or testimony from a hydrogeologist determining that the stormwater management will not exacerbate flooding at the end of Gold Street Regarding approvals seven through nine, where seven is the suitability, the suitably located utility preventing pollution, uh, a is his preserving historically significant features, which unfortunately contamination is one at the site.
Uh, and nine is location, quality, incisor in general harmony with the surrounding neighborhood in your application. The deed has, uh, um, How many do you have The question? We're at the end. What's that? We're at the end of the question. Okay. Then, then, you know what? Let's, um, let's let, let's address them now. Okay. Okay. Um, the last one is, do you have a copy of this? Okay. This is, this is that restrictive easement listing all the things you're not allowed to do on the property, including dredging
and digging up dirt and laying down roads and stuff. So I'm, I'm gonna read these off. Sure. Okay. And we will let, um, Rob respond. Mm-hmm. Okay. That way I, I got the somewhat of the gist down, so I wanna make sure when I read 'em off you can give the actual question. Sure. Um, Rob, they're looking, you got, okay. Um, at this question got, um, uh, the natural flow of groundwater and surface water. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Mr. Chairman, uh, based on the, um,
the questions from Councilor Melo, um, we do have, I believe in that in the stormwater report, the impervious that exists on the site, which is actually pretty, uh, extensive. Uh, there's existing asphalt out there. Um, some of it, a lot of it is in disrepair. A lot of it is actually done pretty well. There's concrete areas and there's bituminous areas. Those have all been calculated and I can get that number to Councilor Meow. But those have all been included in our analysis. We look at the pre-development conditions for stormwater runoff, which includes all existing impervious.
We look at post-development conditions for stormwater runoff. That is all in our stormwater report that has been reviewed by the engineering department as a courtesy to Councilor Meow. Be happy to provide that, uh, in an email so that she can see where we have that in our report. So we do have that, um, environmental, environmental impact analysis. I think the planning board could probably more appropriate, or your planner could probably more appropriately answer that about what's required in our narrative and, and the, uh, criteria for the approval of a site plan approval. So I'll let that one go past and hopefully Mr.
Divinsky will do that. Um, as far as the con consent decree, um, as you are aware or maybe aware, uh, from the last go round, there's a number of, um, or there's ongoing work, uh, related to the, uh, past contamination of the site. Um, the extent of that, um, the details of that and what can and can't be done has all, um, been continued to be resolved and is currently and actively being worked on by the, uh, proponents.
LLC. Derek could certainly speak to that. I'll have him come up and just give a general idea of the ongoing work there. Um, as far as hydrogeologists, um, certainly, uh, the, this, the team that Derrick has for that work, um, includes LSPs, licensed site professionals that look at the groundwater, the migration of groundwater, um, the migration of certain chemicals and certain contaminants, potential contaminants in the groundwater. So there that is ongoing, um, and frankly has been, um, reviewed in the past. And at the lasko round, there was a lot of questions
and concerns about what had happened with the past contamination, how that had been resolved, um, which I believe had been, uh, provided to the satisfaction at least, uh, of the la uh, the folks from LaSow around. Again, this is not the purview of the planning board, but it is something that is going on in a parallel or has gone on in the past in a parallel track. So I'm just, you know, trying to provide, um, open information with regard to that. As far as the storm water, um, at the end of Gold Street, uh, after the last project was approved, uh, Monica, who lives at the end
of Gold Street, I forget her last name. Um, she, uh, had concerns. We worked with the city of Westfield to extend the drain line, uh, DPW and through I think Casey Bie had extended a drain line to accommodate some of the drainage issues that she was having at the end of Gold Street, which had nothing to do with, um, um, cycle Street or, or the proposed projects on Cycle Street because nothing had been done. Um, but we did do that and I actually went out of my way. Um, the, um, there was still continued concerns
and complaining, so I divested myself of that solution. Um, and, uh, since then there is still, I'm, and we, we walked the area. There's an extensive wetland resource area at the end of Gold Street. This project will not, um, eliminate that. It will not change that. Um, we have stormwater calculations that prove that they have been reviewed. They've been prepared by an, uh, a professional engineer with extensive experience with stormwater and stormwater controls. And one of the requirements under the DEP stormwater management standards are that we do not create issues
with downstream flooding. Um, and frankly, we are well away. This project is well away from that area, which is even, um, you know, further proof that we, the water doesn't really get there or won't get there. Um, which is a good thing. Um, the natural flow of the water in the ground is certainly monitored by the LSP and whether or not they have a hydrogeologist on staff, um, I would expect that they do 'cause it's a large team. But I don't know the specifics as who of who is on the team in addition to the LSP. Um, and as far as the copy of the restricted easement,
I think that was a question for the planning board. So, big picture, site plan approval, all of these questions, uh, other than maybe two, appear to be outside the purview of the planning board. But our good questions, were happy as a courtesy to provide that information to Councilor Melo, who's obviously concerned about the neighborhood, concerned about things being done the right way environmentally. So we're happy to communicate with her with regard to that. Um, and, um, Bob Bacon, um, from big property LLC as well as Mr. Salt Marsh, uh, have communicated on this in the past
and will continue to do so. Thank you. So just a reminder, the two questions were the environmental impact analysis potentially for Jay, and then there was a question of whether you had the restrictive, I think it's a restrictive easement or covenant of some sort. Thank you. I have a question. Um, Jessica Britton 36 Casser. So, um, Mr. Lebeck, you had said that a lot of those environmental concerns are out of the purview of the planning board. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah. I know the chair wants
To Oh, okay. They come this way? Yeah. Oh, okay. All right. Sorry. Um, so you guys are granting the permit. So then who's pur is the environmental concerns? Is that just on the state and the federal level? Do we not have any type of overreach on a local level, Please? Um, yeah, I think, I think, uh, Ms. Britton has, um, accurately depicted what's going on. So there's the local planning board, your purview is the site plan, the, you know, circulation, that type of thing.
I don't have to tell you. Um, the environmental components. There are multiple regulators of that, certainly mass, DEP, uh, potentially EPA and others. Um, the LSP is the, is the, uh, consultant that deals directly with these, uh, permitting authorities. Um, and that's ongoing and will continue to be ongoing as far as relocating, monitoring wells, those types of things. Those are all done by the LSP in direct communication or consult with those other agencies. I think that answers it. Thank you.
So it's, yeah, it is state and fed, I guess. Mm-hmm. So there's Two different LSVs that deal, deal with the Property. Um, Stanley Black and Decker, the former owner of the property, has their own LSP Haley and Aldrich who does daily, uh, monitoring of the existing monitoring wells. We also independently through Beef Big factory, LLC, have tie and bond as our representative to double check the results of Haley and Aldrich and make sure everything is within correspondence. They're a third party. Um, as part of this project, we also installed some sacrificial monitoring wells within
the building footprint to test groundwater. Uh, that was done by tie and bond. I am more than glad to share those results, but any contaminated levels were below permissible limits to re require any further cleanup. Thank you. Additional questions? Anybody please? Good evening. Ralph Figgy, board two city counselor. Um, this is a little different than the last go around that we had here. Uh, and I'd like, like to just ask, I haven't heard anything about a lighting plan. I'm hoping that, that the, uh, plan would include words and verbiage about, uh, following the lighting ordinance.
We did a extensive discussion on that on the last time we talked about the different lights and LEDs and that. So I'd like to make sure that that was addressed as well. Um, with my conversations with the folks that live on Cleveland and, and on cycle that I spoke to, uh, they were tickled pink that the, uh, self storage units was gone, that it wasn't coming back. And when I told 'em it was probably gonna be a warehouse, they had no complaints. So thank you. The board does have the lighting plan.
It's in the original set, not In the updated, Updated one. Yep. So the lighting plan was, uh, designed to be dark sky compliant pole heights and, um, down, you know, down lit, pretty straightforward lighting fixtures. Again, they're well away from the neighbors, so should present no issue. There'll be no, no impact on neighborhood. Um, I think they'll be able to look into the site and see lights. Mm-hmm. But there's no light trespass based on the criteria of this, of the ordinance or, you know, design practice for lighting engineers.
Let's talk about the sign on the outside. Uh, what are the plans for the sign? Um, to be honest with you, Derek, might be better to talk about the sign. I do have obviously what we provided in the letter that shows kind of the other aero fastener sign. But, um, I don't know if, if you have a detail in your head of There should have been here. Yeah, we have it in the letter. So if you go back to the, our response letter, This is what we have, Derek right here. Just so, Yeah. So the existing sign, um, we took a picture of their sign over at, there's this facility. It's a ground mount sign. Um, Jim, is that sign back lit
or is it just lit with, is that sign back lit at all or is it just lit with lights on the ground? Um, just lit With lights, Just ground mounted, lights shining at the sign. So not a back lit sign, there's no, um, electronic displays on it, which is always a big concern of planning. Um, so just very simple sign to represent the company as you pull in. That's it. Do you have plans for, um, late at night, dimming, anything like that. So, um, there will be emergency lights on this building. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of the other lights that aren't required by code to stay on for emergency egress reasons, of course,
will be on a, a time clock. Yes. What About the sign light? The sign light? We could put that on a time clock. Yep. Okay. Yep. That's not a problem. Additional questions? Anybody wanna speak in favor of? Speak against, please come forward. Kristin Miller 27 Mosley, this is a much better project than the last one. Uh, this hands down a much better project, right? I bet nobody expected me to say that, but it's true. The thing is, you're not allowed to put a shovel in the earth there. That's what the easement will tell you. You're not allowed to put in a storm water system.
You're not allowed to put in any utilities in the ground. And our ordinance says you gotta put all the utilities in the ground. The easement is in place until a Massachusetts US District judge says that it's terminated. That's what it says. I gave it to you. I suggest that you read it. This is the only decision making authority that has any ability to, to protect the plume of groundwater from spreading. The reason that easement is there is to keep that plume of, of pfas full water,
chromium full water from going anywhere. And you haven't seen anything that tells you what the direction of groundwater flow is gonna be. How much water is gonna go in there, where it's gonna go. That area is surrounded on three sides by a river. When you collect a bunch more rainwater and put it into the ground, where do you think it's gonna go? We need to look at this in a holistic way. It's not just one engineer. Take a minute, go over the easement, look at what it says you're not allowed to do,
and then make a decision. Thank you. So just to note, the easement is granted from a private party to another private party. It's not, um, doesn't involve the city. Anybody Else wanna speak in favor? I'll speak against, Uh, Harold Murphy, seven State Street. I grew up in this neighborhood, uh, always kindergarten on up and down Cleveland Avenue. All friends and relatives all worked SW checks. Tur lx. Sx. If, you know, if you don't have an acronym of your neighbor, you're nobody in Westfield. But it's, uh, it's nice
to see business coming back to the area. It's always been a place where people walked to work, did all their business walking downtown, coming right back through here. And it's, uh, good to see responsible design and inclusion of business and residential together. Thank you. Anybody else in favor of Speak Against, please come forward. You are going to say something. Um, No. I, so basically we don't, I don't think we have anything else to add. I think, uh, the one item I would add is that obviously, um, this is an exciting project for Mr. Avery. As he had mentioned, he has a, uh, client, um, Gulfstream
and probably others that are, uh, counting on him. So, um, we would be respectfully, if there are no further questions, we do believe we've, uh, resolved any stormwater questions. We're happy to address any landscaping through a condition. Um, and, uh, I think everything else has been addressed. We would respectfully request that the, um, the planning board renderer a decision if possible this evening so that they can, uh, get started. Uh, certainly all of the, you know, related questions, we, we, we don't, um, uh, we don't disregard the questions from Councilor Melo again.
Um, I think as last time, and, and certainly, uh, with Ty and Bond and Black and Decker, um, between their Ls, black and Decker's, LSP and, uh, Ty and Bond, there's more than a ple plethora of information that we can be provided. Um, and, you know, hopefully quell the fears, uh, that, that, uh, councilor Melo has. Um, but certainly provide information, uh, that she can feel comfortable. There's certainly other avenues if there's, you know, if there's any laws being broken. But in this particular case, we would like to move forward
with the planning, uh, so that these folks could get started with this nice project. Thank you. Any other questions from the board? We have a draft condition here. Site plan approval storm water management permit, subject property zero zero cycle street one. The site shall be developed and maintained in accordance with the approved site. Plan set entitled, proposed warehouse building most recently revised 11 17 25, prepared by R Levek Associates. Signed in seal by Robert Leve, RLA or Philippe Crvo pe and in general, compliance with the submitted lighting plan.
Uh, she ES 1 0 1 as prepared by ELM 10 21 25. And constructed in general, um, appearance with the submitted building elevations sheet. A 2.1 by Kon Riddle planned revisions. Two additional shade trees to be added within the front yard. Set on front yard setback or adjoining suite rights away with city approval. Five trees total. Uh, shrubs planting screenings along, um, Um, Cleveland Avenue, correct?
Yes, sir. I believe So. Is that what that's for, Jay? Well, that's a question for the board. Okay. Any other additional shrubbery that we want that's not on the Plan C bike rack located closer to the front door. D walkway will have a walkway connection after expiration of the appeal period. A paper and a digital PDF copy of the site plan incorporating any modifications here and conditions shall be submitted to the, um, planning office prior to making application for a building permit or commencing the subject site construction.
Any other conditions? So I just, I guess just confirm what the board, if any plan revisions the board wants to see. I had just drafted based on, um, you know, obviously before the hearing. So Say, say that again Jay. So I, I just confirm what the board wants for plan revisions, if any. These are just my thoughts, right? Well, I think, I think we talked about the plan revision of, um, um, a shrubbery design along the, um, the black fence line on, um, Cleveland Street,
and they're gonna put a bike rack and they are gonna do the walkway connection. Is there anything else that I missed? Anybody? No, I think that's it. So That would be adding a walkway connection within the site without, I mean, basically to get from here to there, some kind of, They can stripe that Pathway one way or another. You can, can they stripe that with, um, paint? Well across the, they, they could across the drive aisle, but So Just so you're not majority of walking, if someone's
Walking, walking in the middle of a is Not walking along the traffic. Yeah. The site will be gated. Not to say we're not gonna let people in, but, Well, you might have an employee who lives in the neighborhood, um, maybe anyway. I mean, you have their complete street ordinance, which you're supposed to be applying to your site plan. So Can you, can they comply with the complete streets by adding That in, By painting striping it? Well, whatever. I mean, you're supposed to consider all modes of travel. So the idea is to separate pedestrians as much as
possible from vehicles. So, you know, it might be 50 feet of additional walkway within the site just to create a route. If the board would rather have it striped along the DR aisle, you could do that. Or if you're happy the way it is, that's fine. I'm just bringing it up. Rob, Sarah, Uh, safe way that you would suggest to accommodate people walking through the gate. I mean, a safe, the safest way would logically be adjacent to the drive aisle with a, with a sidewalk of some sort,
but getting people to conform to sidewalks and not walking in the entrance is, you know, probably 50 50. Right. So, but I mean, if there was a, a short uh, sidewalk, um, you know, that would probably be the best way. I certainly wouldn't want to stripe anything where we have truck access coming and going. Um, so I would, from a safety standpoint, I would prefer, prefer outside. But realistically, I think a good percentage of the folks are gonna walk in the entrance and, you know, we're walk, we walk every day, we walk across parking lots. Right, right. So,
But we're making something new and try to make it better. So probably the idea would be either from this point cross here and have a sidewalk up to the sidewalk or cross here and have a sidewalk connection. That's the one I was thinking internally. One of those, the front entrance, if we did that, The one go into the north. Well, you could, you could just require a connection and let them design it. Okay. As it works best. Everybody agree with that? I do. Yes. Mm-hmm. Okay. You agree with that? Fine with that? Uh, yes, we are. Okay. So we'll add that on as well. All right.
Do we need, we want anything else? Um, I mean, you said shrub planting, you didn't specify a quantity or amount. How about a dozen? I'm of the opinion you work it out with Jay. I love that answer. How about 12? Minimum. Okay. 12 minimum. Hm. That was easy. We have a, you should Have said three. You were gonna negotiate. We have a good, we have a good looking building. Let's get a nice planting as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as, as he said, the owner's proud of the building. Let's be proud of the landscaping as well. So, okay.
Anything else? Motion to close public hearing. Make a motion to close public hearing. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Do I hear a motion on the conditions as read and amended? As amended? Yeah. Read and amended. You're asking for a motion for site plan Approval To approve. Yeah. Uh, yes. We're asking for a motion site plan approval storm water management permit zero Cycle Street as read and amended. You didn't read the storm water conditions, but they're pretty standard. Oh, you're right. Has read amended and written.
I'm sorry, say that again. Jay Has read, amended and drafted, Has rec has recommended and drafted as amended and drafted. I will make a motion to, uh, approve the site plan Storm water for Cycle street warehouse. I'll second. Okay. We ready? Yeah. Start with Phil. Yes. Ray? Yes. Jane? Yes. Cheryl? Yes. John?
Yes. Bernie? Yes. And I am a yes. Thank you. Next on the agenda is Sovereign Builders Inc. For Special. Is that correct? I wanna Make sure that's correct. Next on the agenda is Sovereign Builders Inc. For special permit. Hey guys, can we take it outside please? Hey guys, can we take it outside? Thank you. Next in the agenda, sovereign Builders Inc. For special permit pur zoning ordinance section eight dash 10.21 C and five A to allow an intermittent electronic
and non-access offsite sign at 10 26 South Hampton Road Zone, business B and water, um, resource. Good evening. My name is Todd Ros. I'm the owner of Sovereign Builders. Um, and so we're propo, I own the property at 10 26 South Hampton Road, which is approved for, um, contractor shops, which I, I've not built yet, but I own also 1 0 9 Madeiros by the self storage. And so prior to
constructing the buildings at 10 26, I'm, I'm here to ask permission to put up a, a lighted sign on, on the site at 10 26, which would initially direct people to my storage facility at 1 0 9 Madero way. But eventually, when I build the, the facility at 10 26, it would, uh, act as the sign for a marquee sign for that facility. So the top, the top part, the total sign is, is, uh, six by 12. The bottom part is static. The top part is meant to be, uh, illuminated
and to be, you can, you know, it's digital sign. So it's, the message can change. Can you say that again, sir? What was the measurement you said? Sorry, What was the measurement? You said The total is six by 12, six high by 12 wide. So, so just the digital parts on top 2, 2, 2 foot by 12 on top is digital. But I mean, for some reason the preference is to have the digital on bottom, but the smaller portion of the sign is digital. So the sign, you know, to give an example, it's much like the next gen sign. And, you know, I just Gonna ask That. It,
it's, you know, it's similar. It's, it's larger, somewhat larger than their sign, but not, not a whole lot. But that would give you a, a good visual aid of, of, of that, you know, it's the same idea where part of it's static and part of it is digital and changes. Here's, here's my issue right off the rip is you, you put it in an application for a temporary sign, but in the ordinance it reads for temporary signs that they can only have a permit for two times
to keep a a, a temporary sign. I could read it to you verbatim if you'd like. So actually the application was not supposed to be for a temporary sign. So that, that's an error. Then on, on the, you know, so I have emailed to Rob's office, my friend Rob, um, that, that, so originally I did apply for and do a zoning, uh, determination for the sign, which, which was for a temporary sign. The zoning was, and she, it was approved, that was approved with, uh, special permit and planning, board approvals needed.
So when I realized there was other steps to the process of getting a sign, I, I requested that Rob's office submit an application for a permanent sign because, you know, quite honestly, it's a very expensive sign. Oh yeah. It's a $20,000 sign. Yeah. And I, and I do intend to construct the buildings at 10 26, and it wouldn't really make sense to spend that kind of money then take it down, especially when that is a future use. I, I can agree with you there. Yeah. Right. It's not actually a temporary sign permit. It's a non acce, non-accessible signed permit. Uh, okay.
And described as being used that way for an interim period of time, I guess. Oh, okay. I'm just, when I, when I saw the, the layout and it said signed temporary red, that's why it's, It, it, and that's, that's from when it was applied for us here. Here's the same layout, but it says proposed temporary. I apologize for the confusion on that. Okay. You actually don't need a special permit for a temporary sign. So I know we're sitting in a special permit, but then I looked up the ordinance and it says, for, for a temporary sign,
it's something completely different than what I was looking at in the, in that, that picture, that layout. Mm-hmm. There, There there is one that was, that had, and that was part of the zoning determination application. It Proves I do my homework, Jay. Even if the sign's lit, it doesn't need a permit. Well, temporary signs de described as usually not something that could be illuminated. So Todd is your, is your, is your plan, I, I missed it. It's gonna advertise the new place. And once the new area is built, is he still gonna advertise the storage facility and the new and the new business?
Um, have you decided that yet? And That would be a possibility. 'cause it's alighted sign that depends on our occupancy at the storage. And it depends on the occupancy at the, at the 10 26 location and, you know, the need for advertising at either that, that's really the reason to allow it to change. Mm-hmm. Because it could, it can be used for any one of a number of tenants at 10 26. Or it could be used just simply as an arrow to say, right, you know, down the street, uh, is another, is another facility being a self storage facility. So ideally you're putting this temporary sign
where your potentially new permanent sign is gonna go. This is actually meant to be a permanent sign. I think the best way to describe it, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that this is a permanent sign being requested. It's an off-premise sign, permanent sign that he would like to utilize in the interim because he has the storage facility on Madeira's way partially open now, and he's trying to get occupancy on that facility. And then as he builds the new facility, would transition to utilizing the sign for that facility.
To your question, if he had the flexibility, if he ever had an issue with occupancy, it would be good to be able to advertise that occupancy just down the street. Correct. Right. And I would say that the odds are that at the time that the new facilities bill, that primarily would be used to advertise for patrons or, uh, that would visit that facility or, So if you back up a little bit and call this a temporary sign, again, there's no permit needed. Correct? Well, It can't fall under temporary if it's illuminated. A temporary sign is only good for two months,
and that's through a building permit and it says something, it's usually a fabric sign. Although I think they're pretty lax about what it's made out of. Um, but this is not, I don't think as the ordinance describes a temporary sign, this is not what, what this is. I think the idea is temporarily being used as a non-access sign. So just put the temporary sign thing outta your mind, I guess. Okay. It's gone. Eight feet Base of sign is eight feet to 10 feet above ground level. So you did approve, like I said, like I said, a contractor shop at this site with a sign more
or less in this location. Um, so that's kind of already baked in. I guess what he is asking for is to be able to put the sign up before this building is built and utilize it for a facility down the road Bit. If, if he did the proper application for that, I'm fine with it. I think it's a good idea. Can I ask a question? Um, back when we approved the plan for the contractor's yard, you know, like a year ago, um, what kind of signage was included with that?
I don't remember. Were there any ground signs? We had? We Had a location. I don't believe we detailed it out a lot. Oftentimes, uh, for lack of a better term, we punt on that until the client knows. But I'd have to look at the app. I Sure. Well, that's what I'm, I'm wondering if, you know, if there was an adequate amount of signage back then, now you're adding this, are you subtracting anything from the building or compromising in any way? I Honestly don't believe we, we, uh, permitted a sign at the time. 'cause we didn't know. Oh, okay. So this is the first attempt to put,
and it's lo it's located on the site in, in, in a location where it wouldn't be moved upon construction. So yeah. So it's intended to, to stay and, and be used most likely. The other signage would be maybe above each, uh, tenant space. So the, the other, you know, concern I have is, um, you know, you're applying for this as a, a, um, non accessory sign. Um, but then you just admit it when you moved in, maybe you'll use it to advertise the place down the road.
So that wouldn't be an accessory sign, it would be a non accessory sign. So I, I think we've applied for, for a non-access sign, which is the initial intent is to, but honestly, quite honestly, the intent has always been, and maybe it's not been clear in the application for, to initially prior to construction of 10 26, offer advertising for 1 0 9. But eventually, I I I, I believe we'll be Full if you had a specific time period, let's say it was two years. Are are you good with, with that? I would be, I would be fine with that. Okay.
I would be fine with that. Yeah. I, I would, because you know, my concern is if it's, if it's a non accessory sign and we say, okay, you can use it for the place down the road, and somebody else, you know, from across town says, well, you know, here's a couple hundred bucks, put my name up there for a month. You know, well, We, but we could certainly condition it that the place down the road would be 1 0 9 Madero sway and no, and no, no other location, which would avoid, yeah, it's not my intent to advertise for others only for, or the, for the tenants of 10 26
or the other facility I own at 1 0 9. Mm-hmm. And certainly we could, you know, if for some reason I sold 1 0 9, we could say that upon the sale, that that would, uh, that would go, that intent or permission would go away, um, would be, Do you have any, uh, timetable for the contractor's building? I, I don't, but I mean, you know, it's my intensity. Start there. There's my concern again. You know. Sure. I, I, accessories or non accessory signs are nothing more than billboards. Sure. And I don't want to permit a bill billboard.
And, you know, who knows what happens. I mean, maybe somebody comes along, makes you an offer on that building and, and you sell that property. Okay. You know, how do we know, you know, And then they could advertise anything. Is is the concern, you're, you mean, my intention is to build out the self storage, fill it, and then go to 10 26. We're doing pretty well with that, quite honestly. Yeah. So far, you know, we've, we've spent a lot of money in advertising, which is one of the reasons I'm willing to spend on the sign in place of TV ads and other ads to direct people down the street.
But the, the goal is to complete that project, get to a level of occupancy that, that I'm in a, in a good place financially. And then start on 10 26 is, it could be another year and a half. It could be two years. Uh, hopefully not. But, um, it's hard for me to say, but I would be, if, if, if it makes you more comfortable and we wanna put a timeframe and limit it to two years, I would be fine with that. Yeah. I, you know, this is, isn't directed at you, but when we, you know, initially talked about these illuminated flashing, you know, Las Vegas signs,
we said, well, we can say no whenever we feel like it, because these are special permits, but we never say no, and we don't even know who the tenants are. We don't know if there's even a need for a sign. Maybe it's somebody who does sheet rock, you know, how do you, why do they need a sign in illuminated sign? Mm-hmm. I hadn't really thought about, you know, how that would be detrimental to the, to the area. Really. Well, you know, maybe one isn't, but if there's one every a hundred feet going up South Hampton Road, it is.
So you gotta, you know, draw the line somewhere. Okay. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, in terms of areas where the, where it's, it's primarily commercial across the street. Solar next to me. Yeah. I mean, of, of areas, you know, barns across the street, the old Kors, um, it's a, it's, you know, in terms of its use, it's a good, it's a great location for me to be seen with the traffic and the, and the, and the light and, um, you know, non-residential area.
So, um, in, in my view, obviously if there's a good location, that that would be one. Mm-hmm. Maybe there's a way to break it into its parts. Yeah. So the, the sign itself, I believe is allowed, right? So not the, not the, um, illuminated or the biggest style stuff, right? Mm-hmm. So if the sign is allowed, and he, worst case he put panels on it, is the issue or the concern, the off, I understand the off. Let's talk about the off premise part first, right? Mm-hmm. So we understand that you don't want a billboard,
you don't want people advertising. You don't want this problem where you're getting off premise signs all over City of Westfield. I, I agree. Maybe there's, so if we were to tailor, if the planning board was to tailor the conditions where it could only advertise the subject property or the specific property that Mr. Solar owns, you know, less than a thousand feet down or 500 feet down the road, um, and there was a time limit on it, and maybe that time limit was tied. If, you know, if the site is not constructed, you know, the, the corner site is not constructed in a certain amount of time, the sign has to be torn down
or whatever, whatever the condition might be, that would provide some additional protections. The sign itself doesn't sound like it's the prohibited issue. And then it just comes down to the, you know, the, the special permit nature of the, the light, the lit, you know, changing sign, which, you know, frankly I think was done tastefully pretty well for next gen. You know, it doesn't look too bad, in my opinion. And it does provide, you know, they seem to be, again, they seem to be all over town. So if the sign is allowed, and it comes down to the off-premise portion, I think we could resolve that.
And then it comes down, I guess to the, do we wanna let people, you know, advertise like outside? But That would almost be like taking NextGen sign and putting it in the lot that they haven't built on yet. Correct. Wait till Renny comes in to ask for that. Sure. It's coming. If he's watching right now. Watch this meeting Tonight. Have you met us? So, no, I, I, I really, you know, wouldn't have a problem with it if it was a sign that, you know, served the purpose. If it listed like, all the businesses that are down Service Star Road,
but it's advertising one specific business that I don't even think needs a sign. Self storage is going to fill up. I mean, people want to use self storage. They go on the internet, they don't care about a sign. Um, they don't drive by looking for self storage signs. Um, Well, self storage is getting saturated more and more so as they, as they pop up everywhere, which they seem to, Yeah. Uh, it gets harder and harder to compete. So this for me, would be a little bit of an edge of two others that are, that, you know, one street over is one
that's, I think it's doing quite well, but there's another to be constructed near Homeland Farms, and then there's one proposed in South Hampton. Mm-hmm. My goal is to separate myself from those by, by having a, a, you know, an active sign where I can, you know, say I have a special or something. Yeah. Uh, you know, and, and you know, be it temporarily that, but then eventually, uh, to advertise for the folks that rent for me at 10 26. How, how elaborate of a, uh, I don't wanna say animation,
but moving messages. It's really a lot like NextGen not nothing too, you know, just simple, you know, maybe arrow, maybe, maybe, you know, the ability to have words that, that would state specials that we have. 'cause we, 'cause we, we have a special running a special right now 'cause people want a store for the winter months and so on. Um, So thi this is kind of the chicken or the egg for me. It, it's, if you want to put a sign there to help your storage business so you can get money
to build the business, that's where the sign is. Well, not to, no, not that I can, that, that I, so I can securely build. I, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I think it's a good idea, But there's only a limited, you know, I'm, I'm somewhat conservative in my, in my endeavors. Mm-hmm. The money's available to build that. How far out do I want to go? I want to, I want to get to an occupancy level and then get started. I would love for that to be 12 months from now or, or six months from now where I get started on, on, on, uh, the, you know, 10 26.
But as you know, look at our world, I don't know, it's a little uncertain if you ask me. So, and in, in the, in the industry and many of 'em, there's, there's a little bit of turbulence out there that, that, you know, so I, I i, I play conservatively in terms of going out. Uh, But to your point, it is, it is a business model based on being conservative and ideally, ideally occupying space one. And then I guess my point is that I didn't state it very well, is there's gonna be a sign there one way or the other. It's just a matter of whether it's
after the storage facility is full or not. Right. So This is true. And if we, if we travel the road of, if I were to sell that whoever were to build there would utilize that sign for themselves, You would hope they would you have, you have no guarantee on that. We, we don't. And, And, and no, no disrespect, I don't mean to sound rude, but Our job is not to give you a business edge. Our job is not to, um, you know, to worry about how your business model works.
Our job is to look at what's good for the city and, and does it conform with the ordinances? Sure. So, and I, and don't get me wrong, I'm a businessman and I appreciate everything you're saying. I really, really do. Okay. But I, I'm sitting here thinking all the signs that are, that go down along South Hampton Road, all conform with a business that is there on the business. Mm-hmm. This to me is a billboard dressed up as a sign. Okay, you're gonna be advertising, yes, it's your business,
but you're gonna be advertising a business. Not at that location. I would be much more acceptant if you had a, a four by four sign that was between, I mean, a, a, a wooden sign or a vinyl sign that's between two, four by four posts driven into the ground. Temporary. Mm-hmm. Okay. Because again, I view this, it's electronic. You can change it. It's not hard to change. Um, and there's nothing there. It's a billboard.
It's a, it's a, just a really small billboard. One of the possibilities, once I get occupancy is that coming soon and I advertise for it to be built. So I help, uh, maybe get an anchor tenant or something. So there's, there's a lot of there know, there. If there's a building there or a site plan that's going in there, I'd be all for this. Absolutely. All for this. Okay. Can I make A suggest? Is there Yes. Could we condition it that if he ever sells it, that that sign can only be used there? Is there a way to put a condition on that?
What do mean there? Well, for whatever the businesses that's there that he, they cannot use it for anything but advertising what's on that location. So, so I had drafted a condition, the right to operate a non-access sign shall lapse upon any occupancy permit being issued for this 10 26 property. Okay. So once he builds that, the ability to use off-premises message would go away. Um, if the board additionally wanna say, well, or within five years or whatever, you know, if that never gets built
and this becomes a permanent type of thing, you could add that protection as well. Something Like that. Because technically the, what I'm thinking about these signs, what would stop any business from, you know, the, the scrolling signs to scroll something different than what's on the property. I mean, it would, it wouldn't be, well, I mean, we would see it and we would stop it, but When you start regulating message and speech that starts to bring up the constitution, all those kinds of things. Um, this is a commercial speech, so it's a little, you have a little more say over it. Um, but no, I guess we see some
of these other signs you've permitted saying whatever Happy Veterans Day or Right. Some other messages that aren't, um, necessarily site related. Um, but I'm just saying, you know, what would stop another business that has a scrolling sign from doing something like, you know, you're talking about could happen here. Yeah. I mean, it'd be hard to police, I guess. It, It would be hard. I mean, so you have to go by and notice that you know somebody that works for the city of one of us, and then we would have to bring it up. So, I mean, in its purest form of sign regulation,
you should be looking at the size, shape, height, and not the message regardless. That's kind of how it should be. Now this wouldn't be allowed because there's no, this wouldn't be allowed by, right. 'cause there's no nothing operating on this site. So that's why they're here for the special permit, because it would just be a sign. Um, and I did look up the old site plan approval here. So that did have a ground sign on it. So you approved a ground sign at this location for the contractor shops. It was located further south than, than this one was. So, um, as part of that,
there's already a ground sign approved. Isn't a sign an accessory use? Yes, except, And it has to be subordinate to the primary use. And there is no primary Use. Right. So this is a non-accessible sign, which is a special permit provision. A sign on lot by itself is a, A Primary Non-access sign is a special permit. So you issued this for the fair and they put up their hay wagon and, and Westfield Fair coming as a non-access sign, you issued a special permit for that. So it's a similar type of thing. This is much more permit.
So what if you had a lot and you didn't have a house on it, but you put a shed on it? Is that okay? No, it has to be subordinate to the main use. Yes. But there is, if you read the ordinance, there is a special permit provision to allow a sign without the main use. Right. That's what, that's what this is Before you for Stumped us. I actually have a question Just to make sure I understand this correctly. The sign would be used to advertise and another, and another address, and until that,
those storage units are built right there on the corner and advertise that, correct? Mm-hmm. Okay. So my question is, is, um, one Renny where he's got his, um, NextGen, um, he's actually operating out of that location already at the moment. So it's actually in use. And then he has a sign where he cleared his lot. That is a wooden sign coming soon, like you see in a lot of places or businesses. So my question is, if you put that sign there and they're clearing lots on the other side on South Hampton
Road, then that would mean that they get to do the same thing. If they wanted to, same business, you know, another person has another location, then they can actually put a sign up and now we got signs everywhere directing us to another location to help them out with their business. That's what it kind of sounds like. This could, because you're opening up a new, like a new venture. So then we can end up being flooded with signs before anything gets built in those lots, those empty lots waiting for those to be built. And then they can switch the sign over later to whenever that business is built. I don't, I, you know, how many people are willing
to spend $20,000 on a sign and that's not included, the construction of it, that's just the purchase. So I, I, I just, I don't know that, you know, you'll be flooded with people that want to advertise for other parts of the town, just partly because of the cost. I mean that just the sign itself is 18,000, then the electric and the foundation for it. Um, I don't know. I I, I hear your concerns. It's, it's benefiting you and I understand what you're doing. Like, um, like our chair was saying, the business model, but it, to me, it opens up a whole new venture.
Mm-hmm. That could, it wouldn't to me, it wouldn't be a very good site if the, if this is, you Know, if the building is Built allowed. Yes. Mm-hmm. So let me just clarify again while we're here. So section eight dash 10, uh, two, number five, non-accessible outdoor advertising signs are prohibited except with a special permit from the planning board. So that's the special permit for the sign. And just sign on this lot. I wouldn't concern yourself so much with the message,
but just having a sign without anything else happening is the special permit. And then part two is the LED ten second message thing. You usually see, I, I, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm absolutely struggling with this. I mean, right down the road, micro abrasive owns a vacant lot. Okay? What's to prevent them from turning around and saying, Hey, you know, let's put, we have a sister company. We have a sister company in Marlboro. Let, but let's put a sign up there. And now we have billboards all down Southampton Road.
I, again, I view this, I get it, it's a sign. It's not by definition a billboard, but at the end of the day, it's not advertising what's on the property. Every other sign that's on Southampton Road advertises the business that's on the property. Um, you know, so I'm, I'm really struggling with this one because I can, I see a slippery slope here. My, my, the concern I have is that, uh, you mentioned, uh, a year and a half, two years you wanted to start construction there. What if it's two and a half, four years?
You know, and we have that sign there. So we're, there's no guarantee that you will be in there and you'll have a building up in a year and a half. I, I'm just not super comfortable with Sure. With that sign there Now, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a very viable site. It sure is. Yeah. It's a great Location. And I get how, how you want to promote the storage facility. I understand that completely. But again, it, We Had a, we had a gentleman, and I forget who it was that was gonna do a car wash. Mm-hmm. And, and then COVID hit, and that lot's still empty, and it could have had a sign there. Sure. You know what I mean?
I'm getting the sense that this, this is not, uh, you know, well thought, thought of. And so it's not critical for me. It's, it's, it would be good for my business. It's not an exciting expenditure, but it would be useful for my business. And, uh, I think it would be helpful to my business. But if it really goes against the grain of, uh, then I'll withdraw. Well, I, I quite frankly, don't have the same concerns as the other board members. I I really think, um, we could go on
and on forever with what ifs, what ifs, what ifs with everything that comes before us. And I understand what you're trying to do. Um, it's your property and I, I'm not against it. Thank you. So again, you could set a time limit on it. So if this 10 26, 7 get built out, required this sign to be removed within X amount of years, We can put conditions on it that we could, 'cause I understand what you're trying to do, and you know, it's your property. So I, I like this as well. But I think we all know in two years,
if there's no site plan approval, we're not gonna unplug this sign. Well, you have a, he has a site plan approval for this property already. Okay. 2024 With, with a, with a sign on it, with a ground sign. This, this is just in a different location than where it was approved on the, on the site plan. So it's fully approved. I could start construction tomorrow with, with a, with a building permit. And the goal is to start as soon as possible, but to use this to get greater occupancy so that I can get started and then potentially advertise for an anchor tenant,
which is really actually, you know, been attempting to entice some folks to, to, uh, be anchor tenants. So I could start in parallel with, and not have it be a linear process. So if I understand you correctly, you could start this project tomorrow. You, you could put a bulldozer on there, start digging the hole tomorrow with a Building permit. I mean, so, so we have full, full site plan approval. So why don't you do that and then put the sign up Money, you Know, you know, back to where I was before, you know, everybody would like to have illuminated sign in front of their business,
but not everybody can, you know, it'd be ridiculous. So you have to like, you know, somehow evaluate whether a business really needs a sign or not. You know, if somebody's selling rocks, they don't need an illuminated sign, and we don't know what's going in that on that lot. It could be a, a contractor's yard with businesses that have absolutely no use for a Sign. But it's also about the location though, in terms of there, there are many locations that might come before you that aren't, won't be as, as good
as this because of its location. It's fully industrial. But with bars, We understand that. But the reality is, is the sign does, I I, I'm, I'm just really, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm really struggling with it. Sure. I really am. And, and, and I just, you know, I just don't see the need or the purpose for it. So at this time, build it, build your, build the building, and I'd be absolutely willing to reconsider. Okay. Understood. Well, the sign's approved, ground signs approved, A sign is approved there with the site plan if
and when they build that out. So they've already, you've already said they can do a ground sign there. Uh, the question, I guess the sequence, Um, Rob's got some magic coming. Uh, I don't know, it's magic, but I, I I think something that, you know, is really a question I would have for, for Todd if we walk away, uh, tonight. Do you have a problem? So let's say he builds his building, right? Or building out front that on the corner. Do you have a problem with the, the accessory component? So let's just say he comes back and says, okay, you know, it goes
to the building department wherever he needs to go get this, get the sign permit for the sign that meets the requirements. Let's say that you guys even give him a little digital part of that sign. Do you have a problem if he were to advertise also for his, you know, sister site down the street? Is that really an issue? Or is it, is it, what is the concern, I guess, just so we understand if we, you know, whether we withdraw or whether we ask for a vote. What, what is, are the concerns that, You know, that my, my concern is like, I, I know you're,
you've got a plan, you know, you're going to turn it around, but I see non accessory signs as something that's there forever. And just to give you one example, when you come down Clay Hill, you go by Pike Side Automotive, there's an Elm Motel sign that has been there since I was in kindergarten. Is there still an Elm Motel? And, and it's There because it's still there Elm, it's grandfathered in. And I don't want to make that same mistake. Part of the need for part of the request is that the dearest wave was renamed. It's not even on a map. That's part of the problem.
So people, people go, it's, it was previously Summit Lock Road. And so, you know, not even, not even Amazon can find us. So people, so, so we get stuck with what do we advertise? And that, that's really what started this people can't find us. Yeah. They, they just, they just, you know, you, you have to, you can't use our address because it's not on a map. Look, look on a map, look on any, you know, Google Maps or, or ways, it's not on a map. It's on the map as Summit Lock Road. So, so as we advertise, we need to advertise with our, our legal address, but they can't find us.
To answer your question, Rob, yes, I would. I I do not want to see come drive down East Main Street and see the Polish National sign advertising for another business. I don't want to drive along Southampton Road and see Westfield Bank advertising for, you know, x, y, Z corporation that makes it a billboard. It no longer makes it a sign that goes with the property. Um, you know, um, prior to Illumination, you had you, the only way to do
that was gas stations where they pulled down the two, the three, the four or whatever you buy milk today. Um, that was the only way to do it. Um, illumination gives you a little bit of flexibility, but it doesn't give you the right to advertise for somebody else. Um, so to answer your question, yeah, I would have a problem with that. So it's not something I've ever thought of until you ask the question. How, how would we regulate Westfield Bank on Arnold Street getting an illuminated sign at all? They apply, they go through all the right steps, do everything they're supposed to,
and then they start advertising for the Maple Leaf. What regulation did they break? That wasn't the question that was asked of me. Well, Well, it would become a, become a non accessory sign. I don't know. Yeah. The Sign would then be non-access. It wouldn't be accessory to the Westfield Bank. Oh, okay. That's In order to advertise for an adjacent Property, I would think that they would need the non-access signs. But permit. But I mean, not That it'll ever Happen. You're getting, when you start again regulating message that starts getting into speech issues. Um, so think of a non-access sign as just a sign on a lot
with nothing else happening. Like which case, like the one on, um, east Main Street just passed, um, Mrs. C's ice cream shop. There's that little Kiwanis one right there. You know, we do these things just to give you something to talk about. Right? Yeah. But he's not advertising for somebody else. He's advertising for himself. He's not taking money from somebody else to Advertise. Correct. And I, that's, that's what differentiates Billboard. That's, that's a little bit in my book. Okay. A little bit of a difference. I think if you kind
of remove the message, just think of a sign, right. Would you wanna allow a sign on a lot when there's nothing else happening on that lot? But There's not, or, yeah, or Yeah, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be really clear about that. No, I do not want to allow that. But it's not like there, he, he has a permit to do something on that lot. And that sign will be used for That. It would be used though. He could develop that. Yes. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Would allowing this sign allow, would it make the development of that land sooner or later?
And which would we prefer sooner or later to have? That's a business develop. That's, that's an answer. Yeah. I go back to what I said is he can put a shovel in the ground today. Okay. So he can put a shovel in the ground today, go down, grab a permit, put a shovel in the ground today, put the sign up part of the, part of the project. Yeah. I mean, incidentally, in your condition, you, you did require him to come back here with the sign design before he does that, when he develops that. But that's an aside issue. Granted, um, I, of the three hearings tonight, I did not expect this one to be the most controversial. Yes. Agreed. No, I, I, um, illuminated signs are,
in my opinion, supposed to be granted sparingly. They're a special permit. They're not supposed to be granted to everyone. And under what circumstances would you say no, if you, if you can't say no to a non-access illuminated sign, what circumstances could you say no? So just to be clear, so illuminated, you could have, it's the changing message that we're talking about. Um, I would say no. If it is just a sign on, on somebody has a lot and there's no plans to do anything, but they just want to put a sign
there. I would say no to that. That's what we have. No, we don't. He has a, um, Ownership doesn't dictate. It's The, he has, he has a permit, um, for his sign. For, for his sign, but also for the, the building that He is going to build. It's a good one. He just needs to get the building permit. It's been approved. He has approved site drive. I go home. Yeah. Um, So approve it. Well, there's a car wash down the road. Go to vote. Yeah. So Would've had Illuminated. Yes. I'm, I'm just, Hold on. Go Jay.
What if he was proposing a four by eight plywood sign to do the same thing? Yeah, I'd Be okay with that. I'd be okay with that four by eight plywood sign. Sure. Okay. I mean, you could, you could grant that, for example, Light What? Lighter? I mean, it gets dark at four o'clock. UPS is coming. What is, what is What is going through your proposal? You withdrawing, not withdrawing. What are we doing? I say take a vote and I, you know, yeah. I say, you know, I would love to hear all of your opinion.
If we take, if, correct me if I'm wrong, if we take a vote and this goes, no, it's got a two year limitation. Correct. Unless it comes back with something different, you can't come back with same thing. Substantially, Substantially different than that. Yeah. As determined by you. So we can't come back with the exact same request for two years. Yeah. So you can't come back for two years. I'm sure you want us To do this, Which is fine. The likelihood is if you vote no tonight that I'm, that the signage that we come back would be pile on sign or signage above the, the, you know, the tenants
and maybe the tenants would each come back for their own sign. So it might not be me as the applicant as well. So I honestly don't think, that's not, not a real concern of mine. Although I, I, I have a sense of where this boat may go. Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, the board could craft this and change this into something you find accessible or acceptable. So like I said, you could make it, oh, it's okay if it's a wood four by eight sign and it's not there for more than X amount of months, but, or it's okay if he has a changing LED message sign, but it only is gonna go once the building is built.
That kind of thing. 'cause Go Ahead Rick. I'm just asking if he withdrawals without prejudice right now out and walks away and gets a hook tomorrow, then you're in the ground and you don't have to wait two years to come back with that same idea. Am I right or Wrong? Yeah, but he doesn't need your approval to put a sign there if he's The one, he wants The changing message one. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Just saying if you get a vote and you get a no vote, you're shut down for two years anyways. If you withdraw without prejudice and you get a hook tomorrow, Rob decides
to open up a satellite office On my side of town, I'm looking at my anchor. It might be your hook, Or as Jay suggests, if you, if your goal is to advertise theros way on this lot mm-hmm. It sounds like the votes for a four by eight sheet of plywood or a plywood sign with a couple, four by four, um, driving would go, would go right away. And I would be, that would be a fine alternative for me, to be honest with you. I, I, I really need to have, people can't find us. And that's what started this whole thing.
And then, and then I, and then I, and then I realized what a temporary sign is and for how long it is. And then I, and then I realized, okay, let's put a permanent sign in and then it'll have future use for the location. So that's, that's how this transpired. Would I, would I be happy with a sign that's temporarily people that's not limited? Yes, definitely. As, as, as a, as a, as a compromise. So I, I like this. So, but I'm also assuming that all the proper applications were done,
do we have everything we need to approve this If we were to, to vote that way? Well, he's applied for a off-premises non-access sign that that's what he's presented. You could say, I don't like that. We're gonna condition it to be something else. So it'd still be a non-access off-premises sign. It would just be a different form. He could, uh, take a vote on this sign and then if it doesn't pass, he could come back with the, the wooden, uh, four by four or whatever sign that would be substantially different from This. What do you Yeah, I think he could, you could just say,
well, this is what you're presented. This is what we're gonna vote on. Yes or no and done. Or you can help him out and craft it into something accessible. I mean, depends what He wants. Yeah. I would rather not come back. Okay. Okay. You want us to change It now? Sometimes this tonight it's possible. Yeah. Okay. What do you guys want do? So I'm gonna try to craft, this Is Todd, tell me I'm wrong, but, um, we would like a four by eight sign, two-sided sign temporarily as
so it's a non-accessible sign. Under the special permit. We would need the special permit so that we could have that for a period of how many months, year? What, what are, what are people thinking? What's, what's reasonable? What, what Would six months, a year Is that, Is it like The future home of type time? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like Randy's. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. Well, no, but I want to advertise 1 0 9, not Correct. Correct. No average. I'm just getting an idea of the what. Yeah. Yeah. The size and the idea. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. So can I ask a question? Yeah.
Uh, if the storage facility wasn't even in the picture and he wanted to put this sign up tomorrow to advertise coming soon, how would we feel about that? Usually I would Still have the same problem. Yeah. Usually the building department would let you if you got a building permit. So what I, what I would, what I would really like as a resolution tonight is to be able to put up a sign that shows my proposed building. And so, and a sign that directs someone that would be a, you know, a win-win kind of thing.
If we, if I was able to put up a, a, a sign, which is a temporary sign that has a picture of the building that I proposed coming soon, and then a sign on the corner that directs people to 1 0 9 Madeira's way, From what I understand, the planner said, we can't tell you the verbiage to put on your sign, but we can allow the Sign. Well, I mean, that's, but We can't put up two signs, but it's a we Can or we can't. No, we can't have two independent signs then already set. You can't have two independent. Well, you could stack 'em, you do the v like they're, you can, you can stack them. Yes. Sign. Um, so construction signs are something
allowed in all districts. Again, usually once they have a building permit or, or in works of constructing, they would be allowed to do a construction sign. I don't know what the new building inspector would, I would interpret that or not. I, but you know, as far as we know, there's not a building permit in the horizon here. Um, so the special permit would allow a, a sign, and maybe it says coming soon,
and maybe it says something's down the road. Um, again, the idea is this is just a sign on a lot and try not to concern yourself with the message too much. Like NextGen has a big wooden sign coming soon. Yeah. I mean, there's a separate category you that calls them construction signs. Okay. Yeah. So, um, Once construction sign allowed per building, uh, so in theory he could probably, if you issued a temporary sign, put that up.
And then when he, if and when he gets a building permit and starts work here, he could also add a coming soon sign. Could we issue a temporary sign with a long, are we allowed to give it a longer than two months? Yeah. I mean, temporary signs are, um, again, put that outta your mind. That's more or less The timeline or the temporary sign. A temporary sign would be accessory sign. So if there's already a business there and they've got a banner having a sale or something, that's more or less a temporary sign. But you can set a time limit on this non-accessible sign if you want. You can make it temporary.
Is there a category of a construction sign that we could classify this under? Well, I mean, you don't need to, you wouldn't need a special permit for that. Again, that would be once he gets constructing this site, it has a building permit. Usually If, if I understand this correctly, we have a request for a sign in front of us and we can turn around and say, this is a sign that we're willing to permit. Yeah. You can condition it as much as you want. Right. So you can condition. So no lighting, no illumination, no. So The question goes back to the applicant. What do you guys want to do about a sign
and we will vote on that sign. Sure. So I would respectfully request that we have a permanent signed or semi-permanent, whatever you call, it's not gonna be forever, but longer than two months. Six by 12, because I already have that sign size, uh, to address my facility down the street, non eliminated. Um, and that would, that would Six feet high by 12 feet wide? Correct. Okay. And how are you going, how are you going? Put, put In the ground, which was the size of the original. How are you gonna put it in the ground? Two, four by four posts, or two six by six posts.
And, and call it a wrap. Okay. So the six, the six, What's in front of us lights? What's that? Lighting? No lights. No lights. Okay. You, you don't want to spotlight on it at night? I, I, no, I mean, we're, I'm fine. That would, that would be a lot of effort to bring power there for that, you know, for a permanent sign. It's worthwhile. But for temporary, like, do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? Well, just before we do, so six by 12 is the sign and then the, it will actually be taller because there's posts.
It says somewhere in here, it's gonna be between 14 and 16 Feet. Yeah. And, and you can tell me what, how you would like it at. I'm not really, I don't, that's too high for a, for a post, you know, for that type of sign, I would say that it, that bottom of sign would be up at, say six feet. And the top of the sign would be at 12. Uh, yeah, because the top total height is six feet, six feet high. You said by 12 feet wide. Bottom of the sign at six feet top at 12 and 12 feet wide. 12 by 12. Well, I mean, you airspace underneath, you're,
you're gonna, you know, you're not, you're, I think it says right here, the top of the sign may be no higher than five feet from The ground. Yeah, because that was, that's why I'm asking him how tall? No higher than five feet from the ground. What You NextGen is much higher. Uh, The bottom of 15, uh, after 15 in the letting ordinance, next gen is higher. Yeah. Next gen is certainly, Maybe that's talking about the instructional sign. I apologize. That might doesn't sound sound right. Hey Todd. Um, solar lighting might work as well. It's, it's a thought. Yeah. It might be something to ask us.
Sure. I think that's instructional signs. Okay. What's that? Are we Good to, are we good to ask now about closing the public hearing? I don't know. Are you, We motion to close the public hearing. We gotta get the height though. Well, he said 12, unless these guys have something to say. So, 12 feet high, thereabouts. 12 the top. Got it. 12 to the top. Is there Make a motion to close a public hearing? Oh no, he's, did you already ask about the public? What about the public hearing? We have a motion to close. Do I hear a second? Did you invite public comment? I don't Anybody in the public want to talk about this
Too. I think I've heard enough. Do I hear a second? Second. Okay. All those in favor of closing the public hearing. Aye. Aye. The motion before us is for a six by 12, um, sign with wooden, um, posts. Six feet on the bottom, 12 feet at the top. Um, did I hear something about, um, allowing solar, solar lights, He was thinking about, I would love the ability to downlight small roof solar underneath if With with solar light arrangement.
Do we talk about a, a timeframe at all? Like, Well, that's up to us right now. Okay. I'm, I'm good for a year, I'll be honest with you. Yeah. I could easily be talking to, you know, 18 months. Okay. 18 months. What'd you say? I said I'm good for a year. I could be talking to 18 months. Alright, lemme try this. Lemme make a motion for 10 30, 10 26 Southton road sign application for a wooden post sign not to exceed six by 12, 12 feet at the top with soil lighting
for the timeframe of 18 months, second months Second. Um, I mean, you may want to condition specifically that there are no changing messages because that was also a special permit applied for, I mean, technically you'd be denying that, that special permit No changing Messages by conditioning it. Um, Yeah. Okay. You still second it with no? Uh, yes. Second. Okay. But We can have that as a finding that you're denying the, The, the, The, the intermittent science special department denying, modifying
The future Side by, by that condition. All right, Ray? Yes. Jane? Yes. Bernie? Yes. Cheryl? Yes, too. Compromised. Phil? Yes. John? Yes. And I'm a yes. Thank You all. I Thank you for making on my Interesting, That was your willingness To compromise rather Than just that was 12 months, just You guys. 18. 12. 12. Yes. Thank you for that. So,
18 months from installation. Yeah. Yes. It's, you guys Are just talking about a Billboard. Just prevent the bill for Next on the agenda is review of plans not requiring approval under sub, uh, subdivision control law. First is 4 37 and 5 87 East Main Street. Little River Plaza. Thank you. Sorry, These are hard. So, uh, this should look pretty familiar. You granted, um, special permits for access not across frontage for these lots recently.
This is the lot plan to actually create them. Where the a r They're making, they're making this into a padlock. What's that? They just making this into a padlock, a pad site. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again, you already went through the special permit for this. Yeah. Do I have a motion on the a and r? Any questions? Anybody? I'll Make a motion to approve the a and r River A second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Next on the agenda is, Uh, That one's not on the agenda.
Uh, What happened here? Cleveland Ave and Cycle suite, uh, slash cycle suite redevelopment. LLC and big factory LLC. So obviously you just had a hearing on this. I mean, the R is standalone thing, so they could come in with this plan with or without that hearing, um, to create this lot. Oh, That's lot. A, they're, they're creating Lot a that was the subject of the hearing tonight. Okay. Well I'll make a motion to approve the a and r for Cleveland Avenue Cycle Street.
Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Next on the agenda is 19 lowest street wheeler slash wheeler in LA Valley. Um, Chamberlain. So this is just, um, basically, uh, land exchange between neighbors. Um, parcel B is kind of growing to include parcel A, uh, to make a bigger, deeper lot and parcel A was part of that big, big piece to the left there.
What's Going on with that little piece to the right there? Parcel C. No, not parcel. Parcel C is gonna be combined with A, it's the one to the right is C. That's a, it looks Like a piece of landlocked Property right there. Yeah. That's not subject to this plan that's already there and it's not changing. Okay. So basically A, B and C become one bigger lot. One big one. Relatively big. Yeah. I'll make a motion to approve the a and r for 19 lowest street. Second. All those in favor I. Aye. Next on the agenda is other business, uh, starting
with 1 0 9 Madero Way Self storage compliance review. Um, so this, I put this on the agenda 'cause I thought it might come up with the previous hearing. Um, basically that self storage facilities been built out and there were a number of conditions that we weren't copied on, or they didn't come before the board with their signs like they're supposed to. Um, we didn't get the approved plans. Part of this is, I think on the building department to more carefully review the board's decisions when they're
managing or not managing, but when they're permitting these projects, um, you know, to let me or the board know that, hey, this building permit's been taken out and they're supposed to come before you with whatever site plan. But, um, Can I, can I ask this up a little? Please do. So, Um, there, there was some confusion I think on, on my part for sure, but the building department issued, not at my request, but at their requirements, separate building permits for every building.
So we started, we were, we, we were approved in May of 2023, and then we started construction over a year later. And, you know, at, at that time we got building permits and they issued seven building permits. And so what, what we, what we did is construct the first three buildings because we were at a race against winter. And so we, we were able to get pavement down and the first three buildings constructed, they did not issue cos until certificate of occupancy until this past spring. But, and after checking with Cocom
and doing all those things that, that, so Not not checking with planning. What's that? Yeah, they didn't. So there was an bilt that was done, but I guess we didn't, we didn't get it to Jay. Also, there was a condition in the special permit that I missed in terms of the sign on that building sign signage. I guess I'm not good at signage. Um, so, but so, so the special permit said that I, I need to come back before planning for the sign. What I did is I did a zoning determination, which they approved my sign for the zone.
So, and I have that. And then, and then I pulled out a permit for the sign. Um, so I submitted the size of my sign, my, you know, my, my site plan and did a zoning permit, you know, zoning application, missing the piece where I had to come back from the planning board for the sign. Um, and so all that is here and they issued the sign event and we put the sign up and then I realized, you know, that I missed that piece in the, in the, in the, uh, special permit. So I apologize for that. But it isn't compliant with, um,
the zoning regulations. Yeah. So I mean, this isn't the only time this happens. Valvoline also, we, we don't know that that's been billed the new school. Um, so part of it's internal with the city and coordination and hey, you're supposed to go to the planning board and of course part of it's on the applicant for, you know, rereading their permits. But, um, I think we're at this point, you know, what's the remedy? I think we're good with this o other than, um, as builts, I think we're still, So the, I mean we're partially built. We started basically phase two,
which is the remaining four buildings. It's, it was never meant to be phased, but since we started so far, so deep into last season, and quite honestly we had, uh, conservation challenges this spring that we had to deal with prior to starting on the other four buildings. So the asbuilt includes the first three buildings and wetlands and so on, which rob, his, his office did that. Yeah, but we, we can get that to you. And, uh, so the, we should do a storm water inspection and those kind of things. And that's more administrative. Again, it's just on the agenda because I thought it may come
Up, that's a little confusion on my chart too, because conservation has had a lot of comments about the stormwater. Yeah, but the, the planning board issues the storm, local storm water permit. So it's, it's two separate things and um, whatever. Sure. So I don't know that there's anything for the board to do. Again, I just thought it may come up in the discussion with the previous application Aware. What's that? More of a wearing, It's more of a give us information then. Yep. Well, um, yeah, I mean there are outstanding items like,
like we said with the storm water and as bills. So, but those can be administratively addressed. Conceivably, I don't think there's anything for the board to do other than encouraged the future building commissioner to kind of, Okay, Better coordinate planning board permits. Alright then that's what we'll do. We'll encourage the future commissioner. That's the site plan approval waiver change of use existing building A DU conversion, 4 0 9 Pocasset Road. Can I ask a question on this one?
Uh, sure. If this, Because you're actually reconstructing your own house to put an A DU in, does that mean it comes before the planning going every single time and deals with a house? Not necessarily the land, So, no. Um, for a detached a DU, the city requires a well, and depending on the district, the city requires a site plan approval goes through the ZBA, but there's an provision in the ordinance for a change of use in an existing building. So even if it's a restaurant going to a bookstore
or a garage going to an A DU or partly to an A DU in this case, the board can waive site plan approval requirements. So this board has that power. So if you were to waive this site plan approval for a building that's already been built, and um, as you can see from the Google image is pretty far away from neighbors and things. Um, So the A DU is built on the property that's DDAA Detached a DU. Yeah. But if it's a change in use of an existing building,
that site plan approval can be waived by this board. Okay. That's why I was asking because I, I understood before, I'm just trying to make sure I clarify that. Any building 80 U building that's on property that goes through the zoning, but because this is being altered in a home, in this Case? No, not in a home. It's a separate outbuilding. Okay. To detach structure. And in this case, this is being altered in a home or the garage is being converted into an A DO. Yeah. Not, not in the home, but a second building.
It will be an upstairs, A DU, It's a detached garage. Um, Cheryl, it's not attached to the house. It's set back And it's about 600 square feet upstairs from the existing garage right Now. So if they hadn't built it yet and they said I want to build this garage in A DU, then they would go to the ZBA for a site plan approval. In this case, the building's already been built as a garage and it's just a conversion. So Is the garage detached? Yes. Okay. Alright. Thank you. So you can waive it. Um, I mean probably not necessary in this case.
If you don't, they will need to go to ZBA for their site plan approval hearing. Why doesn't it just go to ZBA period? Because there's a, like I said, 'cause it's an existing building, the board can site plan approval. Um, And we've done this before on occasion, when a business changes from one, one thing to another where they're not actually physically altering the site or the building, they're just changing the use and the, the board often will decide. So Jay, when you say waive it, you mean waive the need for a site plan approval
Right. And just let it go. Right. I'm okay With that. With the dean. Yeah. I'm okay with that. Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to clarify and make sure I understand 'cause we're still learning this, but that's what I'm just trying to figure out what we really need to be involved in and what the ZBA is involved in. That's what I'm trying to clarify, but thank you. Yeah, it's only here because the building is already there, so they're not actually physically changing anything. Every, everybody everybody good with this? Um, waiving this? Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. I have, I make a motion to Approve. Do we have to make a motion Or make an appro a motion? A a motion to approve, um, the, uh, waiver for 4 0 9 Pcha Road Second. All those in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Thank you. Next on the agenda. Nathaniel Hill subdivision covenant release request form F. Alright, well We've got, uh, materials on the share drive, so the format, um, and then the city engineer's recommendation, uh,
which adds I think 108,750 to the spreadsheet, but I had to do some math. Me too. You So the, they're allowed to change out the performance guarantee as they wish. So bond or cash or covenant. Um, really what you're, oh, granting is the amount of whatever, I guess it's a bond coming. Yes, Whatever that amount, if that amount is amount is sufficient to cover the unfinished work. Um, and releasing the covenant will allow them
to start selling lots. Have you heard Anything City? The engineer by any chance? Yeah, there's this email there. So we, we have their recommendation. I, oh, Here it is. Assistant city engineer, civil engineer. Yep. I Found it. I Believe there's also comments from DBW Director Randy Brown. There are, um, you have those two, but we historically look to the city engineer's recommendation. Here We go. That's what I'm looking for. There's 108,750 difference. That's what I get. So if we,
if they release 5 0 9 798, then that would remain 108,007 50. Am I reading that right? That would be left on the bond. Well, there's no bond yet. It's just what's left for work. Oh, so that spreadsheet that the that's there had a 1.4 million 16 0 8 9. So adding the 1 0 8 7 50 to that brings a total of outstanding work, um, with some buffer to 1 million 524 839 by my math,
Am I even on the right one? I, Yeah, if you look at the spreadsheet, that's um, Can you just gimme a second? Okay. I, So if the board's comfortable with the city engineer's recommendation, um, I guess the motion would be to release the covenant, um, in exchange for a proper bond in that amount that I just said In that amount. Meaning the 5 0 7, No, the 1.5 million change. 1.5 million. Mm-hmm. Um, bond or proper bond or cash or you know, whatever.
We don't have anything in hand. So, um, if you're okay releasing that, we, we would hold the document until it's received. I'm okay with it. I'm fine with it. I'm good. True. So motion to, uh, uh, release the covenant in exchange for that, Um, Dollar amount. Yep. Do we need to make a motion and vote? Probably should. It's Useful. What? It's useful. It's, do I hear a motion?
What's the amount? I make a motion. I just need the number. 1 million 5 24 8 39. Is that what you get, Rob? Yes. I make a motion to, uh, release the covenant in exchange for a bond of 1 million 524 839 for Nathaniel Second Hill. All those in favor a? Aye. Anybody opposed? Good. Thank you very much. Thank
You you for not having anything else that we can discuss for four hours. Uh, Last on the agenda is development of the street acceptance criteria. So, um, per our last meeting, um, I just kind of took a stab at some things you should look at when you're accepting streets and came up with this kind of worksheet thing. Um, So I ran it a few different ways and assigned some numbers that seemed to play out the way we might want. Um, but, you know, we can test, test this for a while.
Incidentally, if we had scored Belvedere Gardens, um, that would come out around a three or four. It, It might understand that engineering might have something for us Such as, I don't know. Not that I'm aware. Okay. I mean, city Engineering, I'm asking the question because Yeah, these street acceptances are usually referred to engineering as well and they would weigh in from a, I guess, engineering standpoint, which some of this kind of covers. Um, Thank You. Thank you. But most of these, um, I dunno, maybe things we would think
of subconsciously when looking at streets. Um, So I don't know if the board has any thoughts. This, this is a, a nice worksheet and, uh, we can tweak it as we go along, in my opinion. Yeah, I mean, most, most of them, most of them are subdivision waves and they're gonna usually score pretty high because they were billed to a standard, Um, Bill, is it possible the, uh, law department has something that is not on here that we should pay attention to? Well, again, you know, you can't be experts in everything.
Um, but on this one, if you look for other ways, um, the right of way or layout is defined by a, by a map or a description. That wasn't the case with the Belvedere Gardens, which I think may have been law department's concern. So, you know, that's, So this is on the right track with her too, As I think, I don't know. We'll see. Right. At least it's some criteria. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a time, I think, when the board didn't recommend acceptance of paved unpaved ways, but you've since had, so that's not a high
determinant in this worksheet, whether it's paved or not, but it does give a little edge to paved way over a gravel way. So you, we can tweak this over time and see how it plays out. Is there a way I can get a printed Copy of this Jay Right here. And s she's, she sent it to us. Yeah. Not by paper. Oh, Thank you. Sent the email. Thank you. Want You guys want one too? I got another one. Dylan wants one. I do one, please. He's a big paper guy. Jay, what's a rod by this fridge? Hmm? What's a rod? I want keep it, So it says two rods. Two rods wide.
A rod is 16 and a half feet. Okay. All right. We good with this? We start working with this. Good start? Yep. Alright. Very good. Start Any other business? Do I get a motion to adjourn? I'll need a motion to adjourn. Any second. That one second. Okay. Can't get enough. Um, the, the meeting on the fourth, you're not here, right? It's the third. Uh, Second. The third. It's on the second. Whatever it is. The second. Yeah, I'm not, um, there are no hearings scheduled. There are no hearings scheduled. I mean, no applications came in. No applications.
Well, Chris can run it. Yeah. Camera's still on. We.