Good evening everybody. It is seven o'clock and we are calling the, um, March 4th, um, 2025 planning board meeting to order. Totally doesn't show up. Um, first on the agenda is, um, public participation in any matter, not subject to a public hearing. Is there anything anybody wants to talk about? Next is review and approval of our 2 18 25 minutes. I'll make a motion to, um, approve the minutes of two 18 Second.
All those in favor? Aye. Okay. Next on the agenda is, um, continue our public hearings continuation for Anato OD Ouk for special permit for zoning ordinance section four dash 20.2. Lot size are averaging in four dash 20.42 to create two single family dwelling lots from a reduced side yard and reduced side yards at zero Herald Avenue parcel 69 dash 70 dash one zone.
Residence B is the applicant here? Yes. And just, just for everyone's awareness, so Jane and, uh, Cheryl did the Mulin rule. So we have seven members. Yes. So, um, that, that's a little housekeeping here. Or six, like Say that. Well, Ray, in this case, um, rich Salo will be sitting in for Ray St. Aire who's absent tonight. And Jane and, um, Cheryl have invoked the mullen and the Mullen rule. And I have recused myself other than to conduct a hearing.
So I will not be voting. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 people voting. Okay. Good evening, everyone. Uh, yes. So should I, should I repeat everything from the Beginning? Um, name, name and address for the hearing please? Uh, uh, my name Chu, my address is at 1 8 3 June Way Springfield, Massachusetts. Okay. And can you speak into the microphone so everybody can hear us? Yes, Go Ahead. My name Na, um, address, uh, 23 June Sway,
Springfield, Massachusetts. Uh, I'm here because I, I requesting the, uh, lot dimension, our original lot dimension frontage, uh, I'm sorry, my English still not, not very good. Um, so I requesting the frontage of, I'm sorry, lot, lot frontage, uh, decreased to get the, to split the lot into and to build two single family houses. So if, uh, you guys have any questions? So last, I think last time we, we end up on, because we didn't have the confirmation from the DPW,
so we have, uh, water and sewer, um, available. So I think, uh, Jay got, uh, confirmation from DPW. Yeah. So you should have on your share drive the email chain, uh, about the sewer connection approval. Yeah. So, um, uh, so this is the, uh, kind I just wanna mention. Uh, so I got two options. For example, if we got approval, uh, for this per minister, there's gonna be two single family houses. But, uh, if, if not, uh, I, I have the
right to build, uh, two family house duplex over there. And, uh, in that case I will have to, uh, build like bigger and make, uh, like, um, like rental, like maybe buy room for student or some other way to make, uh, to make sense for me because I pay, um, a lot of money for this lot because I was planning, uh, to build two houses. So this like, uh, two, two options I do have. So if any questions, let me know.
I just wanted to ask your question. When I drove by, I saw there was, um, over on the right hugging the right, um, side, um, yard, um, it looked like a shed with wood in it. Is that part of your property or the property? Uh, no, that's not my, That's not yours? No. Okay. It belongs to the other. It, it, it was hard to tell. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Any other questions? If and oli, if you were to do a two family instead of a single, uh, two homes, how big would the two family be? So in, in, in that case? Uh, uh, uh, there's gonna be, I think there's gonna be
as large as possible. Uh, I think it's maximum coverage can be like 25% of the, of the lot. If I am, if I, I'm right. So basically that lot currently 20,000 square feet, little more. So I assuming five only footprint will be about 4,000 square feet. So I think it's gonna be like, uh, two family, maybe five bedrooms in each unit, something like that. So, but like, like I said to, to make sense because I paid a lot of money for it.
So from the beginning I was assuming to build two fa two single family houses with two car garages and just to have like two separate family enjoying. But if in case if this will not approve, I will be forced to do to, to build a duplex and to, to make financial sense. Did you say five bed bedrooms in each side of The duplex? Uh, yeah, that's, that's if, uh, if we'll not get approved, uh, like, like I said, the like second, second option,
which is not require any special permits, I think, uh, neighbors will be more happy, uh, to see like two single family houses to see like, uh, two families living there instead of, for example, having like students or, uh, maybe, um, um, maybe some, some other like, uh, other houses with assistant for, uh, some disabled people with assistance like, like you, you see around town. Just so I I heard you Correctly, You're gonna do a duplex, did you say five
Bedrooms? No, no, I, I to family? No, I, I say for now I asking first question permit to divide the loss and to build two single family houses. Okay. Yeah. But in case I'm just like, I couldn't understand you, that's all. I apologize. I'm sorry. My English still not, not good. Yeah. So about single family houses I planning to build, I think you, you see there's some, some sketches. Uh, it's three, three bedrooms with some bonus room above the garage. And that's not, not very big house. It's like, uh, I believe it's 17, 1700 square feet or something.
Was there any pictures to see what these houses would look like from the previous meeting There? There's in, uh, application, I think in application that's in the package. I, All right, I missed that. Thank you, John. So I, I think that, uh, this land doesn't support two houses this size. That's my opinion. Um, if, if you were to make 'em smaller, that might, might, opinion might change, but I think this, it's, those houses are too big to put two of those in that lot, in my opinion. Yeah. But, uh, I, I believe,
and it is, uh, those two lots is, uh, square footage of the lots minimum I think require, uh, 10,000 square feet. But those slots more than 10,000 square feet, uh, the only, and even frontage, we have frontage as well, but that's only that one, one rule in the, in the regulation which require, uh, to place the square in the lot area percent of the frontage. So basically I supposed, uh, uh, area by area square have to be placed.
So, and they little overlapping. So even, uh, in the application, I asking 78 square feet frontage, because that's what is the average. But even if, uh, I will have like five feet less instead of 100th street, 95, that already will work. So, uh, so even 95 feet frontage will allow to, to subdivide and make everything, like, Do you know the square footage of the houses you were shown? Um, I was just trying to find,
Uh, this, uh, I mean It's it's 28 by 48. Yes, but that's includes the garage. Yeah. So 28 by 28, 48 and plus plus the garage. So 28 by 28, that's square footage of the thousand seven on the garage on the side. So I think it's about, uh, 17, 1800 square feet up to 2000. So that's not Big. How many square feet did you Say? I think up to 2000. Up to 2000? Yeah. I don't remember exactly what. And on this, this lot and you, am I understanding that you want
to reduce the side setback from 15 to 10 feet to Make this work? Uh, yeah, that, uh, that's also, uh, just to, to have more, uh, more flexibility. But even without, without that, uh, that, that will work out Very good. So, so the site plan shows it's not needed A Reduction? Yeah, that's, that's not really needed. But if you let me, so, so there's gonna be like more flexibility. So it would stay at 15 feet, correct. I asking for 10, but if you're not willing to do that, uh, so 15 will work as well.
Um, Is, I think there's somebody here be behind you. Uhhuh, Would you like to ask a question? Comment. This is slightly different than last time. Again. Name and address. Good evening. My name is Luke Boman. I live at seven Ellsworth Street. I'm a former owner of the property. Um, the only question I have is how you said it was approved through DPW, Uh, utility engineering. So one of my questions is like, uh, previously through a previous meeting is we gave the property to my son
and he wanted to build a house on it. He was told he couldn't tie into the C sewer because it's maxed out. Um, so he couldn't afford to build it with a septic system. So then what happened is we took the property back and we sold it. Um, the guy that we sold it to asked for the same thing that Antonio was asking for. Um, and he was denied because he couldn't tie into the city sewer. Um, 'cause they said it was maxed out. I'd just like to know what changed. So what, what, what changed between, 'cause no offense to you,
but if my son could've built there, I would much rather have my son living there, then people I don't know. You know, it's that, that's just, you know, it's just me. I, I, I'd like to have my son in the neighborhood, but he was denied and I can understand where he was coming from. Um, and then like I said, the next buyer went and did the same thing, asked for the same thing, got the same result, and that's why he sold it. So what changed from the last buyer? The first buyer and this buyer?
So I, I didn't see the plans, but it's my understanding that they're gonna do a pressurized system, which means they're, they have to go all the way out to the main on Franklin Street, which means they have to go all the way down the middle of Harold Avenue, put in pipe all the way to the main, which I have to think is incredibly expensive. Oh, that's the case then. That's, that's the answer then. That's the answer that, thank you. Yeah, that's to do that. It's, uh, more expensive than, than SEP System.
So I think prob, I don't know, but probably the previous applications asked about a gravity connection. Um, and that's not possible. So that pumping a pressurized system, which is more expensive to do, is what's proposed now. And the owner would have to pay to flip the bill on that. Correct? That's the only question I have. So if, if we don't do the 10 feet, you're okay doing 15 feet? Uh, yeah, this will be fine. What'd you say, John? The variance instead of 10 feet, he's, he's okay doing 15, which is what it should be.
I'm not inclined to grant 10, but 15 is what it is. So yeah, that's gonna be Okay. Comments, motion conditions, anything? Okay, we have a draft decision here. Special permit infill and lot size averaging side yard reduction, subject property, zero Harold Avenue, parent parcel draft conditions. One, the single family lots to be created shall be, excuse me, one second here. One, the single family lots to be created shall be in substantial conformance
with the submitted special permit filing plan prepared by our lebec Associates, Inc 2 11 25. As may be amended herein, the due dwelling shall be constructed in substantial conformance with the submitted elevations and cited as depicted on the above-referenced lot plan. While the board may permit deviations following an administrative review, it reserves the right to require a formal amendment to this approval to consider impose or amend any conditions deemed warranted by any new information.
Three. Reduced side yard setbacks are permitted from the common side lot line between lots one and two only, um, each not to be less than 10 feet. Four to compensate for the loss of green state. Can I stop you right there real quick? If that's all right. Is it still going instead of the 10 feet? Did he just agree to leave it as 15? Um, yeah, I'm just reading the conditions through. Alright. Sorry. Okay. Thank you. To comp four. To compensate for the loss of green space, at least one shade tree, two two inch minimum caliper at the planting shall be installed and maintained on each lot along, uh,
within the front yard. Its area existing retained mature trees or, um, trees planted in adjoining suite right of way with the city approval shall be, will, shall satisfy this condition. Five. The rights granted by this special permit are twofold. Creation reduction of the lots for which this permit shall have been deemed to be substantially used upon the recording of the lot plan at the registry of deeds. Such plan shall be described shall describe the booking page in which this special permit is recorded. B, new dwelling construction commencement
of which shall be subject to the three year time limit for action and pursuant to general conditions. Six as required by ordinance, the dwelling, the dwellings must be connected to the city. Sanitary sewer. And then we have our general draft on findings, comments, changes. Well, to Cheryl's point on number three, is that going to be changed from 10 feet to 15 feet? You guys want The reduced side yard setback? Isn't that what you said you were comfortable with? I he's asking for 10. The rule says 15.
I think it should be 15 and he's okay with it. So, So you, I mean, you can just strike that altogether because 15 is what would've to be Yeah, it doesn't have to be conditioned Would be met. Yeah, Good point. Yeah. But, um, if you're gonna deny that special permit request, you should have a reason, Um, One of those four special permit reasons to, for your reason for denying it. The reason for denying the 10 feet, The, the setback reduction. Well, it's, it's to our discretion whether we grant it or not. And I I should Right. But you have to give a reason if you're gonna
No, no, we don't. It's our discretion. I would suggest you give a reason contrary to one of the findings. Well, from, I'll speak up for John. I, I know, see where he is coming from, but from what I'm understanding from the applicant, it can be left at 15 feet. It doesn't have to go be reduced down to 10. That's what I got from him. So we'll just leave it alone at 15. Yeah. So there's your reasoning that I find from listening to your question, you asked him and what he said is it stays at 15. Does that, is that fair? Well, the reason is that really there wasn't a reason,
given a valid reason to have it at 10. He said he wanted the leeway to do it, but that's not really concrete reason to grant that, as far as I'm concerned. You're right. So for special primary requires for things, so the specific site's appropriate, the use will not adversely affect the neighborhood. Adequate, appropriate facilities and forms, all other rules and regulations. Um, so one of those you should note isn't met. Would You read that again? Um, the site's appropriate location for, uh, reduction.
The use, uh, structures will not adversely affect the neighborhood. Um, And it could be simply saying that you find this neighborhood that production would be an adverse effect or something like that. Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of because you, it's gonna put him too close to the neighbor's lot line and there's no reason for it to be there when he can do it just as well without doing it. So don't crowd the neighbor's front line. So it would adversely affect the neighborhood. Okay. So we can just add
that finding the board did not find the setback reduction. Does that make sense? Found the setback reduction would have an adverse effect on the neighborhood. Okay. Yep. Something. Thank you, Jane. You're welcome. Anything else? So the, uh, the plans that you submitted, the di diagram that we have is the plan of the house you're proposing to the houses you're proposing to build. And I'm not gonna change, Uh, that's, that's not, not final. Uh, maybe some little, little cha changes. Um, but not, not much. The the dimensions are not gonna change. Uh, No dimensions not gonna change.
Yeah. So the language is in substantial conformance and if it's gonna be something different, he's gonna come back and show us. Okay. All right. Do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. Second, Do I make a mo? Uh, do we want any other draft conditions? Any other, anything else that we need or want otherwise, uh, motion on the special permit. I got a quick question here. Can't, Can't do it now. Too late. It's closed Too late, Luke. Huh? It's too late. Okay. We close the public hearing. I understand. No problem. Well, I'll make a motion to accept the special permit
for zero Harold Avenue with conditions as red And amended. And amended. Excuse me. Yep. Do I hear a second? I'll second. Okay. Rich? Yes. Cheryl? No. Okay. Bernie? No. Phil? Yes. Jane? Yes. John? No. Okay.
It does not look like it passed. Three nos, four yeses. Pass Or not pass. This special permit did not pass. Ah, okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next on the agenda, other business. So just, just on that. Well, yep, because the majority approve the findings. I think the we're fine. Saying the reason it didn't pass is for lack of a super majority. I'm sorry, say that again Jay. Uh, un Unless the, you know, the no votes want to give one of the reasons I think it's fine just to say the,
it it failed because of the not reaching the five votes because the majority approved it. Right. That's fair. Everybody agree with that? So there'll probably be a duplex going there. Okay. Um, we're on to other business contemplated zoning amendment to add professional and personal services as allowed uses an industrial district, for example, hair and nail salons, physical therapists, physicians, chiropractor, um, therapists referred from city council. Um, this is something brought, um, is gonna be brought to us
by the city council. They're kind of floating it out there right now. They're looking for, um, means of, um, attracting businesses into industrial. A if I understand this correctly, and Jay, correct me if I'm wrong, um, a way of attracting businesses into industrial a that don't, um, contemplate trucking firms and warehouses and things like that. Okay. But that's the most I've heard of it. Um, uh, I had brief discussion with Brett Bean who um, basically asked us to,
so he, he wants to come before us and at least discuss it with us. Now. I know he had a discussion with Jay, probably more in depth. Yeah. So this is pretty early. This was just a motion from the whole council to send to the board. Um, But it sounds like the counselors want to discuss it before you discuss it, but I think it's fine to kind of give some general input. Obviously any zoning change is gonna come to you at some point for a hearing and all that. But, um, maybe just if you had some preliminary thoughts on basically expanding the uses in, in industrial a
in the old days, not that long, 2004 I think, or eight. Um, industrial A used to say anything you can do in business B, you can do in industrial A that changed around that time. So a lot of the retail uses came out as being allowed. Um, and a lot of the other uses. So this looks at putting all or some of those back into the industrial aid district to, to broaden, broaden the uses. So do you have any background as to why they changed? Back in 2004, um,
there was some big mall thing proposed, I think I see for industrial or I believe it was an industrial, so it would've been a big retail complex which is allowed in business B. And back then would've also been allowed in industrial A I'm kind of stacking the uses. I see. So they pulled back and kind of just said industrial is just more industrial and the business is business B. So, um, it's a different, couple different philoso philosophical approaches to zoning. One is as your zones get more intense, you collect more
and more uses or so that industrial a would basically would be anything, um, as opposed to industrials just for industrial businesses, just for business and residentials, just for residential, different ways of doing it. Um, so right now we're kind of a more industrial focused industrial A zone, although banks and restaurants are allowed in that, which don't really make a lot of sense to me if that's your, what you're trying to do, but you can't do retail generally or some of these other uses that they listed.
So is is the big difference, uh, between B and industrial, like a parking issue or the mall sounds like a good example. I would imagine a mall needs more parking than an industrial. Well, it's more the use issue. It was a retail, it was a big retail and I'm not sure it was a big retail facility that wasn't proposed in industrial a, um, and, and for whatever reason, I don't know. But it ended up, they ended up chopping that retail out of the industrial district,
making it more industrial uses per se. So I don't, I don't think a mall or something like that is their intent. I think they're looking to put Or allow No, I just, that was just the No, but that's a good point. I'm glad you said it because they need to specifically disallow that if they don't want to have that happen. So what, either they have to list the uses that they want to have or list the uses that they want to exclude because that, that somebody's, somebody's gonna come and try to do that if we don't exclude. Yeah, Because most of those businesses I think would go with like a strip mall type thing. You're not gonna build a building for a barbershop.
Correct. You know, you're gonna build a strip mall and put a barbershop and a hairdresser and a nail saw on, but you'll end up with some kind of a strip mall to do that. Or Or another example of a somebody that's got a 50,000 square foot warehouse that's only using 30,000, they could put some stuff in the remaining areas, a barbershop or beauty salon or something like that. That's, that's what I think the intent of this is. But they, they haven't gotten specific yet. They haven't, but I, I mean if you want to put your early 2 cents in
for their committee meeting just to give them some direction, you know, if you have any thoughts now, Um, I'm just curious as put it back right now, the zonings are exactly the way they are industrial. You have your two businesses types, you have your residential industrial is not tied in with industrial businesses together, correct? Right Now Generally, yeah, I know they surround each other, but industrial A doesn't say, well it's industrial a plus business. Your business is mixed together. It doesn't say that right now. It doesn't, but it does allow, like I said, banks
and restaurants and some other things that you wouldn't think were industrial uses. Okay, I understand that. So my, where I'm going with this is, I'm trying to figure out the mentality of this is where would we, they put these types of businesses in industrial. That's where I'm trying to figure out strategically is this smart for businesses where they normally, if you're talking of adding, you know, physical therapists, physicians, chiropractors, and that those are usually, you know, in your mainstream
courts or your main corridor or um, streets where they're visible to put these in the back end of something. It doesn't seem economical sense to me that you would put them, you know, in the far away back end. There's gotta be another reason why this is happening. So that's why I'm asking is where are they thinking of putting these, you have a lot of businesses, you know, buildings that are empty around here. So I'm trying to understand the mentality of this. Well I don't know that it's location specific. The industrial a zone is, a lot of it's on the north side,
but there's smatterings everywhere. Actually stop and shop is industrial a so may not make us a spatial logic as to where, where these areas are. I think the intent is there's some vacant spots that may benefit from having more opportunity for tenants. I can understand that more on the core, you know, the main visible area. Well some of them are, are visible, like I said, stop and shop is industrial. It's pretty visible. So Cheryl, I also think that some places, and I'll just use advanced. Say that again. Uh, as an example,
someplace like advanced, that's pretty big. If they had space and had availability to put a barber shop in there, that barber would get everybody that go. That works at advance. So I think it it, it works for both, both sides. I, I am with you on that, but what I'm fearing is if the fact that you have a lot of land sitting up there on the north side, 'cause they're moving, they wanna move more to the north side and you got a lot of land, say you got 10 to 20 acres and it's usually for something massive that goes in there. And I'm worried, I'm wondering if they're gonna start
dissecting all of that to fit more of the smaller businesses in there. I'm looking at what they might be thinking down the road in the future. So if you, somebody owns, you know, somebody up there owns 25 acres and they wanna put a, you know, a couple businesses in, they will actually will subdivide some of that and to make these smaller business, I'm trying to get an idea of where they're looking at putting these, because it's not in the mainstream. A lot of the industrial is in the back end. I don't think it's determined yet. Well there, there's a lot of industrial zones along the main main corridors.
I I agree with you. But they're also utilized too. I, I understand where you guys are coming from. I don't have a problem with that. But there's only so much room that's available on the mainstream versus, you know, towards the back end. So I'm, that's why I wanted from them what they're looking at. I I I am also not sure there's a financial advantage to subdividing a big industrial lot to put in a little strip mall. It's not worth it. I don't see strip malls back there whatsoever. No strip malls right now are not. But from a financial point of view, it's not even a good idea. 'cause you, 'cause you're making your property smaller, less appealing to somebody that wants
to build on it. That's my opinion. If you, I I definitely see your point John, but I'm also seeing in a different perspective where the fact that if you start changing the zones, you're remodeling the zones. So if you add, you take industrial A and then they change it into industrial A slash business B slash business A and somebody goes up there and says, Hey, oh I wanna build a big building here. Let's put in another, you know, Utz up there and then U says okay, I'm gonna dissect some of the land. I don't need some of it and put some businesses in here, smaller businesses.
That's what I'm wondering if this is what could happen in the near future. I'm just trying to get an understanding of what they're thinking. Okay, Well it's a broad ordinance change. It's not a specific location or use per se. So, But if it's a broad ordinance change and they're adding the businesses that is going to have a future remolding of how this is used is you're opening a box up saying, okay, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this. You can't say it's all gonna be in one little area. It's, it's going to broaden out.
Yeah. It's district wide. Yes, absolutely. Jay, do you know how the process works? Because city council referred it to uh, committee and us at the same time And me separately. Yeah. So if it comes out of committee, does it come back to us with their findings from the committee? Because, you know, whatever we're thinking right now could completely change based on what happens in the committee. Yeah, but I think your input would be helpful in their early discussions. Um, because the whole council referred to in theory you should report,
be reporting back to the whole council. Um, Jay, I have a question. Uh, last, our last meeting you mentioned that, uh, councilor Bean was, you pushed it back to today 'cause Councilor Bean Wanted to discuss. Yeah, he wasn't available and I think again, he wasn't available today. Okay. But I, I talked with him and, 'cause I think he wanted to kind of present to you, but they want to talk about it in committee first. And um, I said, well it's fine to just have the board kind of take their temperature on it so you have an idea.
They'll probably come back to you again after they talk about it when it's a little more refined maybe. But you know, your early input I think would be helpful for their early discussion. So maybe just as thoughtful as to the idea generally yay or nay would be helpful. I I'm not at adverse to it. I'm looking at this listing of what's what's allowed in industrial a and there's a pretty good cross section of stuff that's allowed and these things that they're talking about, just, they're just out of there.
They don't seem to fit at all. Mm-hmm. And would that, you know, that being the case, you know, it's, I don't see putting those type of businesses in industrial, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Again, I'll go back to the fact that most of those businesses are small businesses, which takes small spaces, which means you're gonna end up putting a strip mall in to, to cover. 'cause you're not gonna put up a building for a barber shop. You're not gonna put up a, a big building for, you know, they, although there are big hairdressing salons,
you're not, most of 'em are not that big. They're smaller units. So you're actually asking to come in there and take a piece of frontage and put a shrimp model on it so you can put these buildings, put these little smaller businesses in there. And that's not what we really wanna put in industrial, I don't feel anyway, you know, we don't, it's that what industrial is designed for. You know, we've got plenty of places where you can put those built those type of businesses rather than take up industrial space for them. It's just my, my thoughts on it. But they just, again, they just don't seem to
blend well with what's already in the industrial area. I understand you John. Yeah. We can put a barbershop in advanced manufacturing and they, they wouldn't have to go to get a haircut. But you know, the overall big picture, I don't, I just don't see it. I don't see 'em working well and I don't, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. So I think that the two directions you would probably go are industrials, just industrial uses and those types of manufacturing and warehouses and even banks
and restaurants shouldn't be in that category. Or the other alternative is industrial a is the kind of last zone on the list and then it takes everything so hodgepodge zone. So we throw all the other uses into it. So those are the, I'd say the two different directions you might, might go kind of trying to pick out these specific uses. I think it's Um, Um, hard to make a logical connection of what one might be and not the other. Phil, you want to Say Something? Yeah, um, I, I'm looking at the uh,
the uh, map with the zoning overlay and the industrial A is the pink and there there's not really a lot of that there. When you consider taking three or four of these biggest pieces, one of which is uh, lanes quarry and the other one is the 200 acres that are adjacent to the airport and the turnpike that are full of wetlands and would never de develop for a barber shop. Um, the other chunk is between
Home Depot and Union Street, which is a swamp. So there's, when you take those pieces out, there's really not a lot of industrial land left. And it should probably be kept industrial because someone's going to be looking for that kind of land someday. I just see like, at least half of what's in pink here is useless. So my my opinion, um, I believe the intent of this is to allow business, uh, categories in the industrial area, in
existing industrial facilities. That's, I don't know why I think that maybe, Well I think that's the motivation to fill some vacant space, allow some opportunities for some vacant spaces. So if it's a bad idea or a bad fit, the business fails and goes away. So that's the worst thing that happens. Um, I don't see that it's a big deal. I actually like the idea. So You don't see this as what John? I don't see it. I see it as a good idea. I think we should, uh, allow particular uses.
Maybe there's some that should not be allowed, but we're, we're not going back to the way it used to be. We're not saying that industrial A is b we're saying we're gonna allow or potentially allow business be uses within industrial. I think that's what they're looking for and I, I think it's a good idea. So maybe by special permit Review personally? Well, in, in their committee I think they need to, well yeah, that's probably a way to categorize it. Something like that. I'm planning to go to by case committee meeting just
to see what they're talking about. Yeah. I'd rather have 'em come here because I don't want a guessing game. I wanna understand whether, what the mentality is and, and to make sure this is done thoughtfully. I don't have a problem with you saying anything's existing if you have the space. I'm just worried about where they're going with this and that's where I want more of an explaning. I don't wanna give a recommendation until I understand where they're going with this. I don't think that's unfair. So based on what you're saying, what if there's an existing industrial facility and they decide they want to build a barbershop on the side
of their existing facility? I don't see anything wrong with that. I want to know where it is and what their plan is in the future. I want more of the details. I don't think that's asking too much. I just want to understand where they're really coming from. I don't, it's like a guessing game right now until I understand what they're thinking and what their motivation is and what their future is because I, I couldn't make a decision until I understood them standing in front of me, letting me know where they're, where they're going. Then I can feel more comfortable. Well I think the idea is that this board is gonna help craft that direction. Well, if there isn't rightly so,
but I'm not gonna sit here and guess of what they're thinking. I want them to be able to explain it. I don't think that's unreasonable to ask that question. Cheryl. I think you think they've put more thought into this than they have yet. I think they're just starting to figure this out. And the, the question was, is there uses in b that we can put in industrial and you know, it might make sense, it might not if we can't manage it correctly. I, I agree with you. But is it, am I being unfair by asking them to say, Hey, come before us.
I want to be completely understand where you're going with this and how you wanna mold this. I don't right now I I don't feel comfortable. 'cause I don't want to be guessing at what they're thinking. I don't have nothing in front of me that says how they're laying this out. Well I don't think it's laid out. That's why it was just, uh, you have to start somewhere. So I've heard kind of two nos. One yes and uh, kind of abstain. Everyone else have thoughts? I, I can't really make my mind, I have no objection to having some of those type of businesses up there. But if you're talking about, um, new construction
where they're going to be building some complexes or if you're talking about taking old warehouses and old existing structures and maybe subdividing and putting um, hairdressers and barbershops and like little flea markets and things like that in there. I'm not sure how that would work. So that's kind of what I'm thinking. I mean you wanna take a building that's existing and empty and repurpose it. I think it's a good idea. I'm just thinking about if there's a nail salon up there, you know, are people going to drive all the way up there?
'cause that's kind of out of the way unless you live up from the north end. Um, Well there's industrial a in plenty of places. Yeah, I, but you know, I'm just thinking up there. You're right. Uh, there Jay. There's other places, but, um, I, I guess I don't have an objection to it as long as it's specific types of businesses or salons and things like that. If I've heard everybody, I think, um, I think there is some curiosity to this, but we need to hear roughly how they're thinking.
And maybe it is best Brent gets, comes before us so we can ask him questions because I think, you know, we're not, if I understand it correctly, we're not adverse to it, but we're not jumping up and down about it either. We need to hear more specifics and what the clear intent is and, and what they want to do. Is that a fair summary? I agree. And I, and, and I was anticipating listening to Councilor Bean today and until, uh, uh, Mr. McKewan spoke up, I really didn't know which way I was, was leaning.
But I kind of liked the way that, uh, Phil explained it and I'm kind of following in his suit until we get further information. That's the way I feel. Uh, and I, and I'm gonna, I'm going to piggyback right on, right on top of Bernie on that one. Until when Phil, when Phil kind of explained his thought process here, I was like, yeah, I, I see where he's going with this and, and I would have to agree I'm not adverse to it, but I, I really need to hear more before I jump up and down and say, yeah, I think this is a great idea. And, and I, and I think Phil's assessment's
pretty, pretty astute. Okay. My question is why now? Well, why is this coming up now that did, were there some inquiries made by people? Um, or They're looking for, I understand there's some vacant spaces that They want to fill against the tax dollars. Clients would, or some potential tenants that wouldn't be allowed by zoning would Possibly sell that may be approached them or approach people in the city. Is that the why now? That's my understanding. Okay. I think that it's probably, thank you. A little psych cyclical too that, you know, it was allowed then it's not allowed.
And it's like, well maybe we should, you know, come up with a little bit, make it a little easier. Make compromise a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Like the, the Roots Gymnastics Center. So then that was built, that was it's industrial aid that was allowed because it was, would've been allowed in business speed. But today they couldn't have built that I see. In that location. 'cause the ordinance changed. So, so is it fair to say the board has a lukewarm reception and is interested in more detail? Not specifically opposed to the idea.
Yeah. We just don't have enough information to make an important decision. Well, No decision making I think, I think that's a fair, from my perspective, that's a fair way of, of phrasing it. Yes. Yeah. If I went back and said the board is totally opposed and that would probably, might be the end of it. But I think there's enough potential support to pursue this further. Okay. Next on the agenda is the procurement of member name plates. It's my understanding Westfield Tech is willing to do it for us. Yes. They were willing to make name plates.
So, um, I assume, we'll I think we might have a new member soon, so probably a good time to order them. So he'll get the first one and we keep cardboard. Is that how Well you keep her card? Everyone else? So I just wanted to um, ask the board what you want. So right now there, Mr. Or Ms, um, do you want first name, last name? Can We do it? I like first name, last name, but it's me. You like what first name, last name? Yeah, I was just gonna suggest Kind of like what the city council has. Yeah. Okay.
And what the city seal if you want. If they can do it. Yeah. City Seal. Yeah, I think we should have the City Seal Scroll. Okay. And your names as they appear on the website? I guess so, Right? Richard Philip. Well let me know if you rn I like Bernard. Bernard. Okay. Well let me know if you want something. Phil Would have to really do. You could spell mine with K-K-I-N-G. Okay. Alright. So we're having, we Should, we should have the budget for that. So
What's that? We do or we don't, we Should. 'cause it will just be material. We Can have a fundraiser. Okay. Yeah. Um, I do wanna mention one thing. I want to thank, um, everybody who came to the meeting at the Westville River School. Uh, clearly the planning board did represent very, very well there. And I think it was noticed by definitely city officials. Um, I've said this to a couple of you, I apologize. That should have made us all stand up. So the city knew that we were there
and that it is an important subject for us be, but we did show up and we did represent and we represented very well. And you know, I, I'm really pleased to how well we represented. Thank you all. So, um, interesting topic after Richard write. What's that? Was that before Or after started to write? I, I've never said this before. Rich, your questions were perfect, Rich. You just happened to be the first one to make the comment because if you didn't, there was somebody right behind you. Take, take, take the perfect.
Yeah, I enjoyed how that you acknowledged that they got your name wrong. I, I was, that was great. So anything else you wanna talk about? I noticed the car's being moved. Are they Hey Darris? Huh? Are they ruling? Not, do you need a pen? No, there's always, this is beans. There's always a Okay. Bank, do I hear a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. You have a form to be signed? Yes sir. See you all in two weeks.