Good evening everybody. It is seven o'clock on, um, Tuesday, May 20th, and we are calling this, um, session of the planning board to order. First on the agenda is public participation on any matter, not subject to a public hearing. Anybody have anything they want to talk about? Please come to the microphone. Anything, anything going on in the city. Next is review and approval of previous minutes. We have the five, um, May 6th meeting minutes. I'll make a motion to accept the minutes of May 6th. Second.
All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Next on the agenda is public hearings, um, as I, um, as I do at every meeting. Um, next on the agenda is our public hearings. Today we have, um, only zoning, special permits and site plan approvals. Um, after the applicants present, the proposals board members will begin asking their questions. We will then invite the public to ask questions of fact. We will have a separate time for the public to speak in favor of or speak against emotions. When we recognize you, please come to the microphone,
give you a name and address, and direct all questions and comments to the board, not the applicant. The purpose of our public hearings is to allow board members to collect evidence and testimony supporting or contradicting the published legal findings. We are required to make, to approve or deny an application. We cannot act outside the bounds of the zoning ordinances, nor the storm water ordinance we're also sought. Please understand public hearings are not a community referendum or a town meeting. We ask you to keep comments civil and positive. Um, remembering we are all neighbors working to move Westfield forward.
While you are free to express your opinion, ultimately and legally, the board can only deliberate on findings of fact not yours or our opinions. First on the agenda is Petition for Alice. My apologies if I bomb butchered the name owner to amend the zoning map at 1 46 and one 70 Main Street from rural residential and residential B to residential C portions of it if the applicant here. Yeah. Yes, sir. Uh, thank you Mr. Chairman.
Rob Leveque for the record here this evening, representing the Wils family. Um, Ms. Wils is here this evening, one of the family members. Alice is the mother. Um, Tom was also at the city council meeting. Um, we are here this evening to request a zoning map amendment to allow the subject property or a portion thereof actually to be rezoned to residence C. Um, this property is directly adjacent. Well, I'm gonna tell you this property is where they sell roses on Mother's Day. You guys have all probably been there right on Main Street,
that vacant lot. There's a couple houses. There was a, um, a retail, uh, like dance. Um, they sell like dance recital type of stuff. I remember my sister going there in the early eighties. Um, anyway, it's been kind of underutilized for a number of years. The rear portion of the property, and actually the entire property is on rural residential now. Uh, there's been some discussion about the, uh, with the city of Westfield about potentially using the back land for, uh, ball fields. The family in general likes that idea.
Uh, the concept that we're going with this evening, uh, in general, uh, for the zone change would be to rezone the front portion of the property, which is generally out of the floodplain. Um, so it's up along Main Street. It's the high ground, um, so that we could extend the same district that the adjacent condos have. So there was a really nice little condo project that was done by Mark Bergeron years ago. Uh, we would like to extend that general idea and use onto the subject property as about four acres of land in the pink area that you see on my plan
that we'd like to extend that to. It would be directly contiguous with that adjacent property, so it wouldn't be seen as spot zoning. Uh, we would leave the rest of the land as rural residential with the expectations that hopefully someday, um, the property is utilized, um, for, for, you know, either passive or active recreation. Uh, there has been some ideas over the years, over the last decade or more. Um, the city had actually done an appraisal. Jimmy Adams had gone a long way in trying to work out with the family, um, securing the property for the city. Uh, at the city council meeting, which we had last Thursday,
I was able to discuss this at length with some of the counselors, specifically, uh, Rick Sullivan, um, and also Councillor Melo had some comments. So based on that last meeting, I have adjusted and truncated the actual area that we're asking for the residency zoning. We've pulled it away from the floodplain even more, um, which is this line, pull this back a little bit. So it's just the front of the property and the high ground. Um, and then we've also truncated it from south to, I'm sorry, east to west. So we brought this up a little bit. This is the Noble Street intersection is right,
right where this jog is. There's a little jog in the line. So right here where my hand is, that's where Noble Street comes in that intersection with the signal. So in a perfect world, logically, uh, if the property ever gets developed for a park in the back, that would be the access point that would be most logical. Um, Rick Sullivan also had asked, or Councilor Sullivan, sorry, had also asked that I do a quick sketch. While it's not binding in any way, as you're aware, um, I think it's informational. Um, if nothing else. So this is just a quick hand sketch just to illustrate what could potentially go there. So if you look on the plan,
you guys can, can you see that, sir? You see? Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, on this, this is that, that adjacent condo project right here. Um, so these would be similar in size. These are about four, potentially five unit buildings. Um, and this is that four acres that I'm talking about. So the whole remaining portion of about, I think it's about 50 acres or so, would be rural residential, nothing in back. Um, do something similar to what we see next door with those attractive units. Um, townhouse style. And then that access off of Noble is down here. So that coupled with
an old plan that we did just for fun back when the city was looking at acquiring the land. So this gives you for reference, this is main street here. This is the four acres or so that we're talking about rezoning. And that's the possibility in the back. It's just a wild sketch, but something, you know, something and they might have different field ideas. I think your planner has a couple different ideas. So just just for perspective, so we're here this evening, we're, uh, requesting a, a zoning map amendment to allow for this portion of the property
to be rezoned to the residency. Um, and we would anticipate, uh, likely not the family, but someone would be pursuing some sort of, um, small housing project in that location based on residency. We would anticipate it being townhouses. Um, but obviously, you know, anything in the residency zoning district could be looked at or pursued subject to special permit or site plan approval through the planning board. Okay. Um, one quick housekeeping note. Um, Dylan Sweeney will be voting in lieu of John Bowen today. Okay. Thank you for this, for this project. Um, any questions by, um,
anybody on the board have questions, comments? The main entrance is and exits for that, or would that be located? So there, uh, are you familiar with the Yeah, I'm looking at It right now. Noble Street here. So this is Noble Street coming in. It's hard to see on the aerial. There's an aerial here. So this is main, this is where Noble Street comes in. The senior center is like right about here. So would anticipate that that would be the most logical access point because there's a signal there. So if the park was had the main access, they I would, I would like them. Not, not for the park, I mean for the, the public. Yeah. So the, I would, and again, this is not site plan yet, but I would anticipate
and I would like to see them share an access point. Okay. Yep. Uh, if not, there's plenty of frontage along here where we could have an, an alternative access point. Okay. But I'd like the idea of having, you know, attractive units along the street, parking behind, so you're not seeing parking. And similar to kind of how it looks now, but that's again, just a concept. Yeah. That the conference you referenced doesn't have access on the name. So I was just curious, um, trying to compare the two. Yeah. Yeah. The con I think it comes off of met. It does, yeah. So similar to that same, same kind of kind of, I'm happy to see it's not spot zoning.
Okay. There is plenty of, um, residency around there. So anybody in the public have any questions regarding this proposal? Please come to the microphone, ask you questions. Anybody have anybody wanna speak in favor of or speak against anybody? Any other questions, Comments, uh, Uh, in the concept one that you got there, how many units are you talking? You're talking About 50? Pardon me? About 50. 50 units? Yeah. Six. Do I hear a recommendation for the city council?
I make you go. You good? Go ahead. Go ahead. I'll make a motion for our positive recommendation to city council. I'll second. Okay. So There's a couple versions, the original, and then Rob presented a slightly revised one tonight. Um, maybe the board doesn't care either way, but you should just make clear your, what, what your recommendation is. The revision date on my plan, uh, with the new zoning district request is 5 19 25. Thank you. You said it. Thank you. Cheryl. Should I assume yours, um,
Is For the 5 19 25, correct? Yes. And my second is for that. Okay. All all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? No. Good. Thank You very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Nice project. Next on the agenda is petition of TV Realty and Development Inc. To amend the zoning map at zero lock House Road Parcel 2 45 dash one from industrial aid to residency access. Um, okay. Uh, for this hearing, the chair recognizes Rich, so Loy
as the voting member for John Bowen. Hi, I'm Mike Ventres, Weyburn Road in Westfield, and the address is located zero. Doesn't really define it. So there's a one way part where lock house begins near George's auto body. You go over to railroad trestle on the left. There's 17 acres there. It's industrial right now. And I'd like to switch it to residential C Anybody on the board have questions? Well, I was just kind of wondering and I, I thought I had read it somewhere when I looked over this materials before, but I can't find it now. Um, your purpose of changing it to build homes.
So you plan on building homes yourself? Yeah. About how many do you think you can get in there? I'm hoping for 25 duplexes. Okay. About how big of a parcel will they be sitting on each of 'em? Each individually? Well, like a quarter acre. You're looking at half acre Individually? Yes. I, I, that's up to the engineer how he draws it. Okay, Thank you. I don't think it'll be a half acre. I, I believe we're not talking about a subdivision, but more like an apartment complex type of thing. An apartment complex. Okay.
This is almost across the street from the Willows, right? This land around that vicinity? Correct? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You, uh, 80 units I believe were approved right across the street on the other side of the Trestle. It's on the other side of the tracks. Here's the tracks that on there. Yeah, That's over here. Lock house road comes down this way. Will's way over here. Okay. I know it's Close by. This is the one that, that's on. We, we put on tracks before the road that comes up here. Mm-hmm. Anybody in the public have a question, a fact for the, for this proposal? So from here to there is one way
Please come forward, please ask a question. Wants turn to residential, Right? Yes. Uh, Robert McKay on um, 27 Ridgeway Ave in Westfield, where the, uh, my property abut this for the, uh, uh, gentleman wants to build and he had asked, uh, well the question was how many took a there and this, do you have a, do you have a specific amount? It, I'm hoping for 25 duplexes. 25 duplexes. I see. Okay. Because I heard there was, well rumor there was a bunch
of other buildings that were gonna go over there, but this is called rumor That I, um, yeah, those questions should be coming this way, please. I'm sorry. Yeah, my question was, the rumor I heard was there was, uh, a variety of other buildings that were gonna be put in there, but that was all public rumor. When was, when all this started? I just wanted to have a clear picture. Okay. That's all. Yeah, so the application, the application states, um, that they want to actually convert it to a residential C district. Okay. From the industrial, when that tells us they are looking to put some sort of housing,
um, project, whether it could be town homes, duplexes, something along those lines, um, in, in there. Okay. Not trucking terminals or things like that. Mm-hmm. I see, I see. Okay. Because Why where the property is, there's tracks, uh, train tracks and then, uh, that's where my property is on the other side. Okay, thanks. Thank you. So the board probably will recall that yellow area that's shown as RC one
we think is really actually RC purple as well. This is arch and runs in the lock house is from the bridge down. This one here is Still, I'm sorry, say that again Jack. We had talked a couple meetings ago about some of the errors in the zoning map and I think the conclusion is that that yellow area should actually be purple as well. The RC one. Okay. So this is one of those areas that needs to get corrected. Right. Okay. And that's the whole Yellow j even the little piece down below The the, oh yeah, all that yellow, um, all the yellow I think was actually should be purple. Okay.
Thank you. It should be residential seat. Yeah, we had talked about fixing that. Um, mm-hmm. At some point, So Just for curiosity, where's the axis if, I mean, I'm just curious for the axis to get in there if, you know, if this goes and changes in and, and the future is to put in, um, duplexes. I'm just curious where the axis would be on here. So it, it has frontage on lock house road, but it's on the one way part, the northbound direction. Uh, so I think as part of any site plan, obviously
that would come before you in the future, we'd need to look at adequate access. That probably involves, um, converting that to a two way or putting a turnaround cul-de-sac type of thing. Something like that would all be part of the site plan. 'cause you can't really have, So One way only what e emergency access. I'm sorry. So fire trucks can't go over that bridge, so they would need to come in against the one way. So again, it's really more of a side plan issue. I just thought I'd ask because I was just curious of how this would work.
I, I know, I know just looking at changing the zoning, but I always like curious to see how that would actually happen. Do we have the ability to change the direction of the road The city does? Yeah. Okay. I mean it's a, it's an ordinance. I assume it's an ordinance. It should be Okay. Change the direction of the what? The road road. In order for, In order for fire trucks to get in, get in, they're gonna have to go up arch and back down long lock lock house. And right now lock house is one way. See, this is why I was asking Richard,
which I'm sorry we interrupted because I was seeing this, it, it, it just kind of like put a spark in my brain. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Part of the problem with changing that roads to two way is that bridge is a, is a limited bridge. Right? It's a wooden limited bridge. I don't know if it'd handle a two-way traffic. Okay. If you change it to two-way, I think you'd have to take that and redo that bridge, which is over the railroad crash Crossing E Either that railroad is either that or Jay said we have a portion of it that becomes, um, you know, a portion of it that becomes only two way in
that bridge stage one way. But at the end of the day, um, I guess to me the question is, is do we want to allow housing in there or do we want to keep it industrial? Just to clarify a little bit, on the 3rd of June mm-hmm. I have traffic meaning to do such to, 'cause I, I'm my property line's 75 feet from Arch Road. So for a hundred feet or so. Oh, you said the road, did you say road? My property line is 175 feet from Arch Road. Okay. So it would be like a hundred feet and then they'd come onto my property where I would have
two-way technically. Okay. You know, so lock house would pretty much just be widened onto my property to get that two way, that's the plan for access. And again, the meeting's on June 3rd mm-hmm. With traffic. Other questions, other comments? Yes, please, please come forward. Many years ago, lock House, that section was that section that is one way. Mm-hmm. That, that used to be two way for many, many years. I grew up in that area. And then up until the past maybe 10 years or so, they changed it for safety concerns.
Because of that bridge, there was a lot of accidents coming up from lock house and going out over the top, going down the Georgia's out of body. So that, uh, for whatever they say, they claimed the city claimed for safety reasons. Mm-hmm. But it was forever. It was two way. Okay. Were there a lot of accidents on that road when it was Still there? Uh, yeah. Back then, yes. Yes. It's a one way bridge basically. Right. There's not enough width or two ways on that. The accidents were at the bridge. I'm sorry? Where the accidents at the bridge? Uh, yes. Okay. Because coming over, as the gentleman said, there's,
it's narrow for one, one car. Mm-hmm. And going over it, it's all, um, designed for one car going down. Mm-hmm. But as you're coming up for two, there's a car coming here and the car coming here and the bridge is only gate wide. Right. Okay. But it was nice when it was too, we, but it was, there was a lot of, uh, accidents right at that bridge. I, I went over that bridge, uh, every day for 16 years of my life. And I can tell you right now that coming up from the main road onto park, uh, you're not gonna be being able to see cars.
You can't see the other side of the road once you get to that bridge. So I, I didn't even comment on that coming up. And I, I never remember that being a two-way, uh, road. I, I just started traveling that road. So interesting. But hi, his property is much farther away from the bridge. It's a lot farther away from the bridge. So I, I I guess that becomes a traffic issue. The other thing that's gonna happen is you're gonna get a lot more traffic up there coming from Main Street or from Elm Street up past the apartment buildings to go over there.
Rather than go up to the light and take a left on Arch Road, you're gonna give 'em cutting up there. So there's a lot more traffic coming off of Elm Street going up and over that bridge to feed these 25 duplexes. Mm-hmm. So that bridge is gonna get a lot more traffic mm-hmm. Than it is now. And right now it's a wooden bridge. So it, you know, even if we, he gets the access to the, from that made that end of it made into two way, you're still gonna get a lot of traffic over that bridge. I don't know if that bridge will will support
it in the long run. You know, the bridge is gonna have to, if you're gonna put this much housing in there, I think you're gonna have to do something with that bridge. And that's of course that's outside of our purview, but I think we ought to make sure that we're aware of it before we, you know, to make this change. I don't think it's gonna make a big deal because there's ways of working around it, but we gotta make sure if we do it when we do a site plan, we cover all that stuff. Because I don't think that, I guess said, I don't think that bridge will handle that kind of traffic over extended periods. Looking For a motion.
Anybody wanna be brave? I'll make a motion to, uh, send a positive recommendation for the zoning change. I'll second. Okay. We have a positive recommendation. Uh, all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Okay. We have a positive, unanimous positive recommendation. Next on the agenda petition four, Michael Sitz to amend and again, I apologize, to amend the zoning map at 66 Holyoke Road
from residence B to business B apportion access. Um, okay. For this hearing, the chair recognizes Dylan Sweeney as the voting member for John Bowen. Good evening. Uh, Rob Leveque from our Leveque Associates here this evening for the requested zoning map amendment. Um, I think everybody knows the subject property is Arrow Pharmacy and the adjacent property, um, surrounding the physical structure. We're here this evening to request a zoning map amendment to extend the existing, uh, business B zoning district
to the, I'm gonna say that's to the east. Um, Jay, is it possible to go to the GIS? Excuse me guys, can you take your conversation outside? Thank you. Sorry. Okay, so if we can turn the aerial on, I think it's just helpful for the planning board to be able to see here. Um, thank you very much. Jay J Yeah, maybe we shut off zoning for just a second and then we'll put it back on. Awesome. Okay. So, um, if everybody's, this is Clay Hill.
Uh, you're just talking about a property right over there. Um, so the, the intersection and whatnot, the, the, um, Starbucks, et cetera. This is the existing gas station here. Um, this is the Arrow pharmacy. So they own this property here. They own this property. Um, not this one. I'm sorry. And then, I'm sorry. They do own this one. And then this one here, um, if you can see the business b use next door extends to this point. But if we go back to the zoning, you'll see that the zoning
Does not extend to that point. So the game plan is to basically extend this. So we have a contiguous piece of property that has a business B zoning, um, not zone anything on Holyoke Road so that we can basically maintain the residential character. So nothing would change off of Holyoke Road. It would really just be internal to the site that they already own. Um, and then allow, allow them to basically utilize the property. Um, there's been some discussions about general use. Um, I think they would love to get a medical, you know, um, like a dock in the box type of use.
Other uses that might be symbiotic with the, um, aero pharmacy itself. But they have a really nice corner there as you can imagine. It's, you know, pretty viable, underutilized at this point. So we're kind of in the infant stages and the idea is to basically get the correct zoning so we can entertain or they can entertain, you know, ideas from different users. So that's where we're at right now. You happy to answer any questions you have on the request? Let's talk about the building inside there. Prop, I'm sorry. In, in behind the house, behind the fence in the middle of the field. What is, what is the little, is it just a shed?
It sounds like it, but I don't know if I know the one. Maybe we can go to the aerial again. It looks like a shed. Mike, you can come up to the mic. It's Probably a chicken coop. What's that? I said it's probably a chicken coop, God forbid, bad joke. God forbid. Shed just, that's a storage shed. It's a little one of those pop up Tens. Name and address please. Uh, Sorry, Michael said 66 Holyoke Road. Mm-hmm. So it's just, uh, I use the store tools for plows and all that fun stuff. Plow the store. It's easily, can be taken down in less than a day. I was just curious. I didn't know if your sister was living back there.
Yeah, she gets hous On that piece. You're, you're talking about leaving the front piece there con contingent to the other reside. Little square residential next foot. Yes, sir. On the left. That's gonna stay residential. That's the Plan. Just the piece in the back and go the other way. I gonna split the deed or is it all gonna just gonna be the zoning? Uh, we'd probably reconfigure the lot. We'd look at, you know, A R and something like that. Yeah. Split the lot. Yep. Okay. I think that would make, that would make it easier to, to swallow and split lot then you have to connect it to the other one, right? Yeah. So the, the value of that home is probably fair.
You know, even a regular home is pretty significant these days. So making, you know, leaving the, the residential structure and keeping the character on Holyoke Road makes, makes sense. Not only from a aesthetic standpoint, but also from a, um, you know, financial standpoint as well. So yeah. So just the back and again, just it gives a little bit more depth to the parcel to, to allow them to give, You know. And you then you, when you did the a r you connected right into that front Parcel? Yes. We, we would make one contiguous parcel in the front most likely. I, you know, I guess you could technically potentially do two parcels, but at this point we're envisioning it
as one large parcel, um, potentially with, you know, either one or multiple buildings on it. Yeah. Okay. Yep. I got a question. Um, you may have Already covered this, but I didn't hear it. You were facing that way, but, um, in order to use the rear portion of the subject lot for business, it'll have to be conveyed to one of the other two lots or both of them or whatever. Um, so you're left with a house on the Holyoke Road frontage of the lot,
but it doesn't appear that it would, well it's not, it is conforming with zoning now. Totally. Right. Um, so now it would be non-conforming and you'd probably want to do one of those lot size averaging things or something potentially. And it doesn't appear that It would The average There's in the areas. Yeah. Yeah. So the other lots in the area. So the, the actual zoning map amendment might be slightly different from what the a r would look like. You know, we might not be able to utilize everything that we want to utilize.
Um, and you know, so I, the first step is to try to get that back part rezoned and then we will have to figure out how to re reconfigure it and it may not actually be utilized depending on who the end user becomes. Mm-hmm. So there, like I said, there's, there's some ideas. I, I don't think there's any, there's no one, am I, am I wrong in saying there's no, no. Uh, specific project at this point, correct? Not yet. No. Right. So, um, so yeah, I mean, in a perfect world we'll find them some symbiotic uses
that would work well with the pharmacy potentially, you know, revamping the pharmacy in the process. Mm-hmm. Is that fair to say? Yeah. So yeah, so this is, we're again, still infant stages, but, you know, looking at it, it made sense to try to reconfigure the back of the property. Okay. So there's no, no way you can end up with a business in a home, the home that is there now. Um, well, I mean, I guess technically if they ever, if it was ever valuable enough to them, you know, for, to utilize a certain portion of the property, they could always, you know, I guess they could technically, um, not have the home,
but then it, they still wouldn't be able to utilize the residential portion for, for the business. So, yeah. So I mean, the idea is to maintain a buffer. Okay. Well you wouldn't be able to cross the residential zone to use Right. Business in the back, so mm-hmm. It's kind of, It would have to go through the, it kind of has To go abut and the lot lines don't, necess don't need to follow zoning lines, but, um, it looks like the lot size as they kind of show the zone line would be compliant about 10,000 square feet. No questions. I got one more question, I just wanna make sure I completely understand this.
This is all one lock, correct? By one owner Parcel? Uh, it's all in common ownership. I think it's multiple parcels. It's not split Lots. It's, so there's one whole Lot correct. The House in the back of it. So to clarify, this lot is all one Lot with the house? That's correct. The faces, yes. Okay. 'cause I've, I'm just curious. So what you're doing basically is just splitting the lot into two different zones, correct? Not, oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Into two different zones. I'm not splitting the lot from an ownership standpoint or from a, uh, I'm not creating separate parcels at this point.
We're just Right. You're just Creating remapping the zones, Creating zones on the same lot. Yes. Correct. Have we ever done that before? I don't know Cheryl, if I understand this correctly. Um, Mr. Sitz, is it Michael's fine? Michael's Michael over there owns three lots. He owns the long lot personally, this one. Okay. And then he owns this one, the two lots that the pharmacy sits on under a corporation name this one,
this one called, called, um, syn, LLC, but he is the manager of that LLC. So for argument's sake, there is, it's a simple transfer between him personally and him, his LLC. But at the end of the day, when you're looking at this, you are looking at three lots owned by Michael over there. Uh, so Ray showing me, yeah, I understand that. I've just, I don't think I've ever remembered, you know, having a one lot split in the two zones,
but my question is next door to that, where the green is here. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm suspecting that was probably all one lot and there's a house sitting there as well. So right next to it is, you see that little green that looks like where there's a house right there neighbor to The left. Yes. To the left. Yep. Okay. So put this all in perspective for me is I'm suspecting this kind of happened to this lot as well. I I, I would assume so that goes back to Phil's question, which is what I was gonna ask. You know, you know, do we have the ability to do this?
I suspect that a lot line will probably be really close to the back lot line of that green one. That's what I'm suspecting. Yeah. 'cause probably the houses are closer together. Yeah, it would make sense. Okay. But at the end of the day, you know, Michael's looking to, in essence develop a big square there, the Same as the one, but eventually he's gonna want to put a business, if he's splitting the zonings, he's gonna wanna put a business there. So you can actually do that on the same lot, put a business and then you'll have a house. So there's two different, well
No, 'cause at some point he's gonna have to do an A and r To so there'd be a change later. Yeah, it'd be a change later because you're Going to absorb 66 into Atwoods or what do we call it now? Yeah. So what would be most logical Atwoods? Yeah, Atwoods drugstore right back in the day I went there. Um, yeah, so I, I think everybody's kind of right. Right. So I don't know what happened here specifically, but it's logical that they probably extended back when they were doing the farm original pharmacy. Um, this, there's a, there's a home here. So the idea is to, to maintain the rural character here.
So let's say that step one is to get the, the portion, the rear portion of this property zone, business B, and then this property here, um, would remain as it is currently zoned. And then we would just carve off that as a residential lot from the parent, from the, from this piece. And then that gets likely gets combined, um, through the approval, not required process with the other property. And then they can kind of look to market that as one contiguous kind of more, uh, square piece. Uh, I'm, I appreciate the patience
and how we understand that because I, I, I don't think I've ever remember seeing that happen, but I'm suspecting if this goes through that later on, you are going, it'll probably a slick Correct. I would think that would be the most logical, very likely. Did you say that Bill too? That there'll be a split? Yeah, I Would think so. Alright. Thank you. Yep. And you did just recommend basically a split zone on about 20 minutes ago on the, uh, main street parcel, correct? This So Are you Yeah. But yeah, you're right. But I saw it differently on that one versus this.
Do I hear a recommendation? I'll Make a positive recommendation for 66 Holyoke Road in the zoning change zoning amendment Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Congratulations. Thank you very much. Appreciate Next on the agenda as a petition of the city council to amend the zoning ordinance to expand uses allowed in the industrial a district. Uh, we talked about this the other day, So, uh, counselor Bean can't be here, but, um, this should sound pretty familiar. We talked about it a meeting or two ago.
Um, basically at that time, and this was informal, the board, uh, recommended allowing some commercial a uses to be added to industrial a. Um, and so those uses are listed here individually. This was back in April, we discussed this, I believe, Right? Yeah. It wasn't that long ago. So the, uh, you know, with your input that that's what was proposed through council. Um, and so this is basically language instead of saying use is allowed in commercial A, this just lists them individually.
Um, I think the only change that didn't make it through committee, and I'm not sure it was intentional. We had talked about just in existing buildings. So there were, it wasn't new shopping centers or something like that being built. Uh, it's more or less to fill, fill the holes in existing vacant uses. So 26 through 30. Right. And some of these things, again, they're copied from another district, but like it says bank branch, that's already allowed in industrial a um, certain amount
of retail is already allowed. So probably when this gets finalized we can do some rewarding to fold these uses into the existing language. But, um, that's kind of committee work that wouldn't really be substantive. Questions, comments clear your motion. So again, the only difference was that part about existing buildings. I don't know whether you want to, uh, recommend that again or not. Um, Say that again Jay, please. When you originally talked about this, we added a caveat that it was only for uses.
I think the exact language was something like any use allowed in commercial, any non-residential use allowed in commercial A provided it's, um, in an existing building or it's not new construction or something like that. Yeah. Okay. That feel like that was the point. There's vacant lots we're trying to fill with uses. Right, Right. Existing building. Now obviously bank branch that, that's already allowed in indus in industrial A. So, um, I don't know that you'd want to change that, but some of the new, if you wanted to add that to some
of the new uses, we could try to fold that language in. Uh, I would agree with that language that it has to be in an existing building already can't be built specifically that way. There we are preventing strip malls and things like that. So in other words, what's listed below 26 through 30? Say that again please, Cheryl? Um, I looked it up, uh, for the petition for zoning amendment. Yeah, those are the new, well, they're not all new because like I said, so These are the guidelines 26 through 30 that would be followed for that. Correct. Right, right. Okay. That's what I was asking earlier.
But they don't Specifically say in an Existing building though. That's, I think that's No, which you should put. Yeah, I mean that, I don't think that was, I think that was some committee what was communicated to me from city co, the city council committee and, uh, may have been an oversight in that language, not make it in into the actual petition. But, um, If I, Go ahead Cheryl, But if I remember correctly, in April they had discussions of this type of shops that would go in there. Um,
Yeah, they came, uh, they came here for this Yes. Before it was filed. So, And I think that the biggest, one of the biggest concerns that I had, and I don't know if it was everybody, anybody else had the same one, was that they go in and build a strip mall in there and wouldn't really want to put, buy a piece, take one of the industrial pieces of land and put a strip mall on it. You know, that's why I think that's where the going into the existing building came from. So they wouldn't go in and build a, a strip mall and put five or six little businesses in it that weren't,
weren't, were on this list, I believe back in April. That was not the intention, but the intention was to utilize, like, if there's an empty warehouse, they can go in and, um, you know, utilize build like offices and stuff like that so that it's not sitting empty. That's what I got from them back in April that they wanted to do. Um, I don't believe they would And their intention was strip malls. No, but if you opened it up to this business, you, there's no reason, you know, other than coming in front
of us and saying we want to build this here, there's, there's no way we we could stop that. Uh, because it's allowed businesses, if they're gonna put in 10 hairdressers in a, in a strip mall and they own the property, you know, it's, and that's what I didn't think we needed in, in our industrial areas now to use an existing building. I'm fine with that. My concern is that I, that we, you know, that we don't take the industrial land. We've got left to break it up and do put to put in small strip malls. You know, we've got enough industrial property with mm-hmm.
That in it. Now If you wait a minute, I'll find, try to find what that language, what's that? I'm gonna look for that language just so, uh, here we go. Is it here? It says to expand use options in the industrial district in order to facilitate reuse a vacant industrial space with lower impact, smaller scale land uses pretty Much what they sent in April. However, can you actually commission that bill if it was, if this, Okay, this is, uh, this is what we had sent to committee.
So it was, it was to add conversion or expansion of an existing building or a portion thereof to any non-residential use permitted by Right. In the Commercial aid district. That was the proposal. Uh, what they didn't committee is they took those uses and just broke 'em out. So those are the ones that are listed. So it's the conversion or expansion of an existing building or a portion thereof that, um, sounds like the board wants to see added for, for the new uses. Do you hear what he said? Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that makes, that makes sense to me. I think that's that, you know, use the existing buildings. I think we got vacant lots. I mean we gotta use them. I don't know if we're gonna get any other industrial businesses in there. I'd love to, but I don't know if, I don't know if it's gonna happen. Mm-hmm. Um, Jay, little housekeeping riches in for John. Alright. Looking for a recommendation. Okay. Uh, I make a recommendation that we send us through with a positive recommendation, but including the line about
That Yeah. Languages as Much, the language at the end of it, about the reuse of buildings. Do you want a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Kim? We're done with that. Next on the agenda is review of building elevations phasing 1 98 lock house road vehicle sales. So this was fairly recent and one of your conditions was before they got a building permit for any building addition. Um, they have to show you the plans. I think the intent of the board was for any of the big new
structures, but not this small addition they were gonna do on the house. But technically that's what the decision says. So, um, he's looking to do the house edition soon. Um, so I said well bring, you know, show what you wanna do to the board, um, just so we satisfy that condition. You'll still have to come back when they actually do the, the actual, um, vehicle buildings. But, um, this is more or less just to enable him to do the house edition. So there's a sketch on the, on the share drive. It took me a little while to figure it out,
but the yellow area is the 16 foot addition to the existing house, which would be the office more or less. The or half of it would be the office for the auto sales. Um, so again, I probably, you know, it's, it's a house edition basically. Did you say the yellow outlined part was the house edition where they're gonna add On? Right. Okay, thank you. Before they came, uh, before us a month ago or whenever it was, I visited, visited that property just to understand the entrance that they were planning.
And uh, I did have a conversation with the homeowner's wife, business owner and wife and uh, the house was already there, um, and got windows and doors in it and he explained the, uh, uh, the addition, they wanted to do it. It looked good to me. But I think to Jay's point, we asked him, you know, big Building, we said This is a minor, this is a minor change and it's a positive one. Yeah, I don't know. That's really a change. It's a condition that yeah, we required for any additions of positive addition. How's that? Yeah, I think the intent, we probably should have said for any vehicle service building or something, but
Your recommendation, I'll make a positive recommendation. Um, more, uh, 1 98 lap house road. Second. Oh, those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Next is I, I'll just note, I think the ramp, the handicap ramp has kind of got going in the wrong direction on the sketch, but, but you know, that kind of stuff would be worked out. Wouldn't that to be building? What's that? Wouldn't That be Carissa in the building Department? Yeah, I mean, it's gonna match your site plan that you approve. Okay. And, and handicapped access and all that.
Obviously this is not a architecturally drawn building, but, um, I think it satisfies the purposes for now. So they should still be coming back in the future with the phasing plan. And, um, any other buildings Next on the agenda? Compliance review, 2 64, lock house, road self storage. I, So I think Rich had wanted to talk about this a while back. Yeah. He, You know, I walked away from those meetings expecting a much
bigger berm than that. And granted, the trees have gotta grow up, but there should, I thought there should have, you know, the planting that was shown is not what's there. Uh, you know, because from what I can see here, but, uh, again, I expected a bigger burn that, you know, it does this, it just, the, the view of the front of that thing is, is ugly by my consideration based on what we forced some of the other guys to do when they build these self storage.
This guy got away with murder, uh, as far as the appearance goes. And, uh, I was so adamant about that burn that, you know, I expected more, much more, you know, according to what I found out last time, that's what we had agreed to. So, I mean, I guess I'm stuck there, but, Well, I think, I Don't know. I, I just don't have an answer at this point. I'm frustrated. I think the height is close to what the plan shows two to two and a half feet. Um, but I don't think it's as wide, you know, as substantial
as what the plant had shown. And then what's planted is just a row of our es the planting plan included kind of a mix of evergreens, including white pines, which in theory would get much taller, much quicker. So they cut the pines down. Well they cut. Yeah. It was mature pines. Yeah. But as part of the planting, what was proposed was, um, well you've got the plans on your share dry, but it wasn't our, it wasn't a row of barbor variety. It was a mix of, of evergreen trees. So I don't know whether this, again, it's not closed out.
We haven't, you know, had final storm water inspections and all that kind of stuff. So, um, I'm hesitant to kind of do a thorough analysis. But just in terms of the berm, uh, the board agreed to talk about this, uh, in the spring, The plan calls for white pines. He's supposed to put in white pines. So build it according to plan, even better yet, build it to what you agreed to build it too. That's okay. I'll accept that language. Yeah. Okay. Because everybody walks out
of here telling you they're gonna do everything in the world. Mm-hmm. And it's not even a half of what they tell you. I'll agree to that. So, So what does, um, if you look at the plan looking here, sheet C six C Sheet C, because it's not, it's not like he's waiting for a co he's doing all his business anyways. Whether he puts the pines in or not, or gets closed out or not, Business is still going. Yeah, I'm not sure. You know, we have much leverage on co
with tray uh, storage boxes. But Jay, just quick question. Where is it in here? Because I'm reading this, trying to find out what they were going to plant on that firm. Um, so sheet C six, the upper, You're on the site plan approval, correct? Not on the plans. Okay. On the revised plans. So, um, zoom in there. Okay. So, uh, there's a range of things that are not arbor. So, So do we send, send the same letter to them that we did
to the solar farm? People that got them to finally have a maintenance plan to take care of plants that were dying or plants that weren't put in or Yeah. Well, tell me what, uh, the board wants to do, but white spruce, Norway, spruce Douglas fur, white pine, uh, those were the species listed in there, so I'm not sure you'd necessarily want to upend everything they've done, but maybe expand the width of the berm and, and, uh, interplant some white pines or other of these species.
Personally, I wouldn't want to see. They look pretty healthy. Oh, I've done down there several times. The AEs. I don't know if I wanna uproot those when they're already starting being established. The berm. Like I said, when I sent you guys the email of what happened, um, it's, you're correct LJ it's not wide enough. I just kind of put that together. But I would probably add more greenery. Okay. So I guess augment with some of the evergreen species shown on the plan. I don't know how specific you want to get. Um,
Well, how many big, bigger, uh, the other, is there any count of what was supposed to go there? Yeah. Uh, 10 white pine, 12 Norway spruce, five Douglas fir and 12, I'm sorry, 12 white pine. Uh, 10 white spruce. So there is a plant list with Quantity. They haven't planted the plan. No. In addition to what's already, what's already what he's got in there. What are your thoughts? I just think that we waste our time talking to these people. That's what my thoughts are. I agree. If, if you stand here
and we say, all right, is it okay if we condition that? And you go, heck yeah. It's, it's, it's great. You walk outta here and you go down to Home Depot 'cause they're on sale and you just fill it with whatever you haven't, you wasted my time, you wasted everybody else. Here's time. So I think that if they agree to the condition, then don't waste my time and just go do it. I agree with you. But now that those trees are in there, they've been sitting there for about a year, do you really wanna take those trees out of there? Well if you, let's put it like this. If you go to a different town and you want to build something and you go stand
before their board and you go and do what you want, you tell me what you think they would do, Have 'em remove it. They would have, they would have you do it to the way that you agreed to doing it. If not, you're wasting each other's time. I don't know if anybody agrees or disagrees. I agree with the philosophy. You know, you agree to a plan, that's the way it should be put in. Unless you can back and say I can't do it because, and we agree with you. And that's a possibility too. If Jay's phone probably rings five days a week, seven days a week, just call him and it could be a minor, what do we call it? Minor change to the site plan the end. But it's,
But I think it's important that we make a point out of it because if we don't, people get to know. Well they'll let that slide and like you said, they'll agree to anything. So if they know that afterwards we're checking on it and we're making sure that they're following those conditions, that that word kind of gets around that you better do it the way you said you're gonna do it or they're gonna come back at you. Yeah. Before you know it, they're gonna have 80 foot light poles in there. Sure. Do we bring 'em back in then? And question this? I think somehow we have to either send 'em a letter or just say, you know, we, we've noticed that this condition has not been met.
We'd like to, you know, get an explanation or come in here and and tell us what happened. Well, I mean, maybe best just to say what you wanna see. Well, didn't we already say what we wanted to see? Well, in the condition We could get the plans and color it in for him. Send it to But going forward, I mean, do you want 'em to rip everything out and replace it with exactly. Per plan or would there be some kind of way to augment what's there? How many avid are there? I I didn't count. I didn't count 'em. I'm gonna guess it's probably as many
or more than what they should propose for trees. 'cause they're probably closer together than the trees would've been. They are. So quantity wise, I don't think it's an issue. It's probably species if that's a concern. Um, like I said, the, you know, the white pines will grow much taller, much faster and kind of maybe restore that original look a bit. I guess can I approach this from a slightly different perspective? If we were to have him expand the berm Okay. Or expand the planting area to supplement what he has there
with, um, you know, white spruce Norway, spruce Douglas fir white pines. Okay. Clearly he can't put in 39 of these things. There's no room for that. Mm-hmm. You know, what's an appropriate number? You know, 12 on each side? Uh, 10 on each side, five on each side. I'm not a landscape guy. I mow Okay. That's about the extent of my landscaping. Um, so I, I wouldn't even know what to suggest to him would be an appropriate way of supplementing this.
Is there room to put it a, a second berm behind it and he can put those other plantings on that ber Yeah. Probably not behind, but maybe in, what was that? Probably room in front Or in front. Yeah. You know, I, The one benefit that we have as a board is we have a resident landscape architect on the board with us, don't we? Yeah, I've heard about that. Well, Rob left. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I mean, how many times have we, you know, trusted Jada Google? Mm-hmm. What he believes is the way to go about it. And maybe something from your office, you work it out with him if he doesn't want to come or however, but,
but next thing you know, his neighbor down the street that just wants to put in a car sales place. You, I can only imagine what he wants to get away with next and so on and so forth. I I, I think supplementing the planting area with some of these plants is actually a very good look. I think it, it makes it for a nice look up in that area. Uh, in, in some respects the arb bides are going to do what I think he intends them to do, which is hide the containers. Um, so I, I just don't know what's an appropriate, you know, we've got 10 screw white spruce do we take Okay, cut
that down to, uh, five white spruce or, or six white sps. And Yeah, just looking quickly, I would say, I mean you've already got more or less a row of arbor variety. So on the north side, maybe five trees and on the south side, maybe three just to break it Sounds reasonable To me to kind of breaks up that look and makes it more of a, um, so expanding the berm toward lock house road to accommodate these eight or so additional trees selected from the plant list. That works for me. I think that's a good idea.
Yes, sure. Go along With That. Okay. Are they supposed to be paving this year too? I don't know the schedule, but, uh, when I reach out I can ask for their, when completion. Um, Now Inspections would be ready. The last thing I have is, were these units supposed to be put on pads? Um, I mean, I don't recall that specifically. We had talked about paving or not paving. I don't recall that. Cheryl. I don't recall if it was or it wasn't.
Huh. Well, his last time in here was with lave and I thought Cheryl was right. I thought he did. Yeah, I'm reading it right now. I know. I see you in here. Yeah. Okay. It's one of these numbers. Good lighting, landscaping. I'm looking at an article from, Uh, Well, um, May 22nd, 2024. In, in that article it says if they are, uh, there's plans to, uh, to pave that area. Um, I think we had gone not all At once, but at, at, at different, uh, sections. Yeah, we had, we had gone back
and forth about paving or not paving. I think that's maybe what we're talking about. Yeah. The units themselves are gonna be on, on the cement pads in this article and, and, uh Mm-hmm. Paying all once would be, uh, too cost for the owner. So they're gonna do it section at, at a time, But they're all sitting on ground. Right. Now. Okay. Number seven. Paving shall be phased. All containers installed Must be must front on pavement. Must front the pavement. Yeah. I don't see where it says the Containers are on a pad. Probably uniform and color.
Yep, I saw that. I know, I've seen it somewhere. I gotta keep flicking. This is Very large. How many units are there now? Do we know? There's a lot. I I, I haven't gone into count 'em, but there's a lot Because a Year ago this time was 17. No, from 35. There's more than that. So normally, you know, when something's done in construction, they're supposed to notify us, um, usually before they get a building permit again. I'm sure they need one here. Um, where we go out and review it, make sure it meets, meets the plan
and conditions and all that. So that hasn't been done. So, um, maybe a little premature to get into all the nuances here. Um, other than the berm that was obvious, I think from the road. So when I reach out, I can ask about again, what their schedule is and uh, if it's appropriate then we can, I can go out and take a thorough look at, make sure it meets all the requirements. Have they done the stone water yet Again? I haven't, I haven't looked at the site. I will find out where they stand. They should have, if they're There is a bond, I believe, correct? Uh, no, There's
No bond. I mean the, the permit's the bond. So, um, you know, that's the enforceable piece. So you're gonna talk to him about the berm And the, the plaintiffs? Yeah, I can reach out with the berm and then we'll see where, where construction goes. Okay. Next on the agenda, summer hours, summer meeting, we have a lot on our, our June 3rd talk. So we don't, the first Tuesday in June, we usually reserve for continued hearings if it's a busy spring. Um, we don't have any continuances, so if we wanna skip that, do the next third Tuesdays of June, July and August.
Sounds good to me. Unfortunately I won't be here for any of those meetings. Just want to let you know now. Okay. Um, be out of the country in July And I think the elevator will be down in July, so we might need either a zoom or basement meeting, but, um, we'll cross that room. Anybody have a, you gonna Zoom in July? Did you say a zoom, a zooming zoom meeting in July? Yeah, we may need to, if the elevator's down, If I wasn't going to be over in Europe, I would zoom in.
You can get zoom from Europe. Yeah, I know, but I'm not sure what time, time change you. Uh, it'd probably be morning, so maybe I could Five hours ahead. I have to email That. That's a little Seven hours, seven hours ahead. Yeah, That's a little too much dedication, Shane. Well, I feel really bad that it, I, uh, I didn't really have any choice in any three of these. It's four in the morning there. You can do a zoom at four in the Morning. That's why we got Dylan and Rich. So I'm usually up at four in the morning, so Yeah, I could. There you Go. Um, anybody absolutely want to, uh, meet on June 3rd? I didn't think so. Okay. Those. Yeah,
If an a, if an A and R or some time sensitive thing comes in, you can have a quick meeting, but, Oh, you know what? I might be here for the August meeting. What's the date of the August meeting? I might be. Alright. So what was the, if you need, if you have an A and r, can we, it's not public, so you just need a, you need a quorum, right? Third. Oh, it's not a public hearing, but we need four August. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Anything else you wanna talk about? Uh, just One thing. Did that property, is there a way we put that on our radar that, uh, that back land to acquire it?
It is. Um, CPC talked about funding that, um, I did reach out to the landowner. I didn't get a response. So I think it's still kind of on everybody's radar Because It's a nice piece of property. Your motion to adjourn? I'll Make a motion to adjourn. I second second. Anybody? I second all vote in favor? Aye. Aye. Go. I got work. See you all. June 17th. June what? June 17th.