Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. I pledge alg to the flag of the United States of America and to the stand indivisible and justice for all.
This meeting is is being held remotely in accordance with the governor of Massachusetts March 28, 2025 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GL chapter 38 section 20 allowing remote and hybrid meeting
options for public bodies through June 30th, 2027. This meeting is being recorded. So, we're starting the meeting with the review of submissions, and we sent out a timeline so that everybody didn't have
to come in on and wait all evening. And we're starting off with the application um of the Westport Land Conservation Trust, a drift area, drift road conservation area, CR for 300,000.
Ross Moran is the project potential project manager. Ross, you want to go ahead and say we've we've seen the application. Uh we'd like you to give us the highlights. >> Absolutely. Thank you, Betty. For those
who don't know who I am, uh my name is Ross Moran. I'm the executive director of the Westport Land Trust. Um, you know, we own about 1,800 acres across town and have quite just about every single one of those acres open to the public in a variety of ways. We've
partnered with the CPC on multiple occasions to preserve hundreds of acres um most of the time to open to the public to enjoy. um whether that be trails, whether that be park-like areas
like Westport Woods um or or other you know means of fishing, hunting, uh sport and AC across town. So uh thank you very much for having me this evening. Uh we are currently working on a project off
the northern end of Drift Road on a 28 acre property that we would acquire to open to the public. It's a really special one that uh meets a lot of the criteria that the town has outlined for preservation in various plans, namely
the open space and recreation plan in town. Um the 28 acre property currently abuts uh 23 acres that are are already preserved and are scheduled in the future to to be open to the public and
has about 400 feet of frontage on Drift Road. Um it has a significant amount of characteristics that that folks are looking for in town. One one we're looking to preserve uh the ecological
significance of the property. Um and the it possesses Kirby Brook, a section of Kirby Brook, which is a cold water fishery resource here in the state of Massachusetts. What does that mean? That means that it's one of the very few cold water streams left in uh Massachusetts
that supports native brook trout. In 2023, at the mouth of Kirby Brook, there was a survey done by mass wildlife uh biologist, fish biologists, and found some of the more substantialsized uh brook trout in all of southeastern
Massachusetts and Kirby Brook. So, a really unique uh resource uh that you know that we have here in town and on this property. It also contains several vernal pools as well as crucial wetlands for the stream um and a variety of
upland upland forest habitat. That's a good picture right there, Tim. Tim, I think you're scrolling right there. Perfect. Uh the properties outlined in red there. Other green on that map is other preserved land in in sort of that
drift road corridor area. In addition to the ecological significance of the property, it has some really interesting cultural significance. Uh it was once a small family operated orchard um supplying fruit in town. Um it's currently abandoned. Uh but it is a
really interesting story for folks who lived in that drift road corridor and it's something that we would revive acquire once acquiring the property and tell the story of um we've been very lucky to partner with the historical society uh may on getting information
out on new interpretive panels across our properties. You might have seen them at Herb Hadfield in Dunhamsbrook. Thank you Jenny for all your help with that. Um, so we would do something similar here to interpret the cultural significance of the property. And I mentioned that it is uh it would be a
new public property and you know it's an it's a great accessible area for folks to be able to get into. Um it would have potentially a nice onem loop um in between two properties um this one and others to enjoy. And it has a really
unique landscape. It has uh uh you know, it has some grade to it. Um a really nice hill that then leads down into the brook and the wetlands. So, it's an attractive property to enjoy uh for the public. Um currently, we're working towards getting a securing the agreement
to to make this all happen. To make this project happen, it'll cost uh a little shy of $1.3 million. Uh $1,285,000 is our our projected cost. that includes acquisition the care setup and care of
the property into the future. Uh what we're what how we have partnered with the the CPC in the past is at the at the simultaneously at closing the community preservation uh committee purchases a conservation restriction to help fund
the project. um at that time. What that CR does is guarantee uh perpetual public access to the property as well as uh overseeing our care of the property and ensuring the conservation values are are
always conserved long term. So that's kind of the highlights, Betty. I'm happy to share any more and of course happy to uh you know have any questions. >> Does anyone have any questions? John >> Ross, looking at that map, it looks like
there's some buildings on that property. What would are there any buildings? And what would happen with the buildings? >> There currently is a building on the parcel that you see in that map. What would happen is it would uh be subdivided off and and the owner would
retain them. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, what we would be acquiring would not be would not have any buildings on it. >> Tim? >> Yeah, you can hear me, right? >> Yes. >> Um, I'm just I'm just wondering, we're
facing some fairly hefty projects this year and we're going to have to make some hard decisions. Ross, how hard is that 300,000 number in terms of what you need from us? >> Sure. Thank you, Tim. That's a great
question. You know, the as you know, um you know, the our work has been getting harder and harder uh because land prices have continued to explode um across town. Uh you know, right now we are working pretty hard at le you know
looking at leveraging a variety of funds. As you can see in the budget, uh we would be looking at some funding from the state as well, which we have a long track record of getting. Um that's about the max that the state would give for a project like this. Um we would also be
securing a lead gift for this and and in addition to that some additional private funds that total 650,000 um if we had to raise more than that 650. I'm not saying we couldn't do it but it it might be tough Tim. So, you
know, I tried to propose a number that I think um, you know, was reasonable and, you know, was in line with what we've proposed in the past for properties for acquisition. And, you know, I think we've we've always done a good job of leveraging uh, additional funds. We we
never come to the CPC asking solely for the the funding for the project just from this committee. >> Good answer, >> Ross. Who would be holding the restriction? >> The town. uh you know the town of
Westport. I would uh I would consider um at a at a later time um you know it's possible that you know uh it would be interesting to consider co-holding if the town would cohold it with the Buzzards Bay Coalition. Um because this
is a very significant water resource. Um it would be something uh that we would ask to consider but not certainly not contingent at all. Ross, could you say a little bit more about that that it's considered a very important water resource?
Say a little bit more about Kirby Brook. >> Sure. So, Kirby Brook, so there are several what we call cold water fishery resources in Westport. Um, these are streams and brooks that support native brook trout. Um, there are there are
five in Westport uh and arguably six. And there are about that many left in all of southeastern Massachusetts outside of Westport. So, it's a really unique resource. And and um in addition to the the habitat that these streams
and brooks provide, what these streams and brooks do is filter a tremendous amount of water headed towards the east branch. Uh in this case, the east branch or the west branch of the Westport River. Um and so they're invaluable um from a number of different perspectives.
>> So Tim um we've been looking at the financing available. we've just received the last two days uh what our situation is and given um what um that some of the other projects have reduced
significantly their ask um it looks like um we are in a position to be able to finance the request. Whether we do that or not is another thing. But things look better than they looked um last month. >> It looks like we had another question
there. Sorry to interrupt you. I saw the the question is Deborah >> I believe >> I just yeah I'm just curious on um how these numbers work on the purchase price of 1.125 is that an option that you have is it locked in could that change what
period of time is that purchase price good for is my first question and secondly the 100,000 for enforcement endowment how many years is that supposed to last is that is that supposed to be forever that that much money is set aside for you know
protecting the conservation restriction and any other things that would fall under that. I don't understand how this works over time. >> Sure. Great questions. Uh so the purchase price there there is potential that that would move northward. We would
absorb any of those costs if it moved northward. I'm I'm currently in we're we're right at the moment in time as I said in the application of finalizing this. Um and so that it's possible if if it moves northward, we would absorb
those costs. We'd find a way. Um we wouldn't be asking for any more money from the uh CPC. Um the the so the stewardship endowment and CR enforcement endowment is a fund that we manage internally uh that is meant to support
the care of our properties in in perpetuity. um because because of who we are um we are you know responsible for these as as forever. And so our our calculus and our strategy has always
been when we acquire some um some land we set aside money in an endowment to continue its you know to care for it in in into the future. So that money is, you know, typically raised privately um and then contributed in into our
endowment and then managed um you know according to our policies. >> Great. And when do you think everything goes according to plan on this budget? When would you expect to execute on the purchase? >> We hope that we would hope that be in uh
early January. >> January of >> 2026. and to execute the purchase itself. I'm sorry. So that that would be to get the finalized agreement to execute the purchase would be no later than December of next year. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Phillip.
Well, I just wanted to echo um Ross's u insignificance that Ross put on the ecological values of this because um of uh projects that have come before the conservation commission, you know, in
the proximity of uh cold water fisheries. And one of the things that happens is with development you get water withdrawal, groundwater water withdraw withdrawal which um kind of can threaten the the existence of the
fishery um you know because as the water levels get drawn down um it increases the potential uh for the stream going dry or just for heat rising uh in the uh in the stream. So uh and
you know without getting any get getting in any details um you know the wetlands regulations kind of uh don't preclude uh uh having these kind of well developments in the
proximity to cold water fisheries. Um for big wells. Yes, there's a whole uh second second analysis that gets done, but you know, for the kind of projects that could get developed on the size of this land, there's often not a lot that
the commission can do, you know, to to prevent the wells from being cited. Um, and then also because it's a tributary to the river, you get nitrogen from septic systems that would end up, you know, flowing into the river. And the
more north you go on on on the east branch, the the greater the nitrogen concentrations are. So it would be good to uh it would be great to preserve this and I hope I don't have to recuse myself because I just live up the road uh from
this. So this would be extremely convenient uh for me. But um I think I can maintain my independence. I'd also like to say that um we will be doing our own appraisal um to see if the uh CR is at the proper
rate. We do that with all this kind of project. >> Yeah, the CR is a lot more valuable than 300. So, >> we still have to do it, Ros. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. We've done it many times together. Thank you.
>> Are there any more questions? comments. Okay. Um should we pass this on to uh the January meeting? Um or do we want to wait and vote at the
end of all of them and have holds? Let's do that. Let's wait until we've been through all of them and then we'll make our decision to pass it on to January. January the 8th, we will expecting you back, Ross. Probably.
>> Thank you for considering it. I greatly appreciate it. >> Thank you, Ross. >> Have a great evening. >> Thank you. >> Ah, how about this? 650. The Westport Historical Society Bell
School Clabard Repair. Um, 49,000. I am not sure who's presenting. I think Jenny O'Neal perhaps. >> Yes, I'm here. >> Okay. Jenny is the executive director of
the Bell of the Historical Society. >> Okay. Thank you, Betty. We'll do our best to keep you on schedule. Um, so as Betty said, I'm the executive director of of the Westport Historical Society. Uh, and I guess that we are a familiar
face to CPC. So um I thank you for giving us yet another chance to present um this project to you. Uh so I will talk briefly about the scope of work uh and a little bit about our funding
sources. Um but wanted to start by uh encouraging those of you who have not visited the Bell School in the last couple of months. Um I I think it would be very useful for committee members to to come and see the
impact um of the CPA grant for um the Bell School project. Uh in some ways the project feels complete to me on on the inside of the Bell School. Um everything is up and running. Our our office is
there. Uh we've just recently completed the um exhibition space and display areas for uh donations of objects as they come in. We have a lovely uh meeting place um audio visuals and we
have just wonderful facilities now to store our collections. So I would be more than happy to give any of you a tour. Uh we had a very successful open house uh at the beginning of November, a three-day open house. We had a non-stop
stream of visitors. Uh everyone had a lot to say, a lot of interaction. And we have another open house coming up on Saturday, January 17th. Um so perhaps some of you can make it to that event. Uh or if not, just give me a
call and and I'm happy to give you uh an on-site tour. Um so to talk briefly about the scope of this particular request. Um this is to repair the clabboards uh on the exterior
of the Bell School. Uh this was you know one of the surprises the many surprises that uh one can face uh when dealing with a historic building. Uh this was a surprise that was discovered by our contractor when they were removing the
drywall from the inside. They could uh see daylight basically. So um the clabboards are significantly uh deteriorated. Um and they're in all variety of different conditions. Uh some have
underllayment. Um some are nailed directly to the sheathing and none of them have been backfinished. So what we gather from that is that over the years uh you know in in the way that um you know small nonprofits work it's been
patched up um over many decades. Um but it is a serious issue for us and our contractor advised us to defer uh painting the exterior until we tackled uh this issue of the clavboards.
So um we have really spent the last year kind of tackling this this uh question and and how to go about it and and where to get the funding. Um but we are going to move forward with this request which
would uh replace all of the clabboards um with uh uh um materials that uh are let me let me give you materials that have been um
vetted by the uh Westport Historical Commission. Um so western red cedar clabboards uh they will be pre preprimed uh the clabboards will be replaced with like items with the same exposure that
exists at present. So basically uh they no one will notice any any difference and once uh cloudboards have been replaced uh we will be able to move forward with the painting. Uh the uh application also includes some
funding to assist with uh replacing window trim as well. So that was another issue that the contractor uh identified um as they were working on the building last year. Uh so that that's a a summary of the
scope. I did want to talk about funding because I I know that's a question that you as a committee rightly have. you know, we don't want to become dependent on um CPA funding. So, I um reviewed our
funding for the this most recent phase of the Bell School project and we have raised about we have raised $420,000 from uh individual private donations and
found and foundations. So that's 420,000 and we have received 460,000 from CPC. So we're doing our best to to balance uh what you give to us with with
our own um funding efforts. Um and we last year received a um cultural facilities funds fund grant of $40,000 and that's from the uh Massachusetts Cultural Council. So they are up in Boston and it's always nice when um
people in Boston acknowledge the value of uh things far distant from Boston in in Westport. So I you know I think that's worth noting that um you know we're able to get some support uh from
other areas in in Massachusetts shall we say. Uh we are also using our own funds. Uh we've been fortunate to have received some um uh bequests recently. So we have had to
draw on those funds uh to cover costs um of purchasing uh storage furniture for the collections for example. Uh we have covered the cost of the installation of the exhibition that you will see when
you come to visit the Bell School. Uh and as you know there are many sort of indirect costs. Uh one of them as an example is builder's risk insurance. These take chunks of money out and uh so
we have been funding those with our own um existing funds generally received from bequests. >> If you want. >> Okay. Uh Deborah, could you say a word about
the um historical commission's? >> Sure. Um the uh Ivonne came before us um in two meetings actually both uh November and December meetings to talk about this clapper issue and she
provided a lot of information and then even had a site visit with one of the commissioners, Mark Thompson, I think. um went and visited and spent quite a bit of time and then they came back to the December meeting and we talked for a long time about collaborates. It was
quite a a discussion and Garrett uh did a proposal uh to recommend that we should support this this um this repair and replacement of the collaborates. He wrote a letter to that effect to the CPC making the recommendation official from
the WHC. So we endorse this project. We think it's appropriate materials that have been um proposed by Jenny and and her team. I am not as clear on the change order versus new bid rules that Betty has talked about. Maybe you can go
through that, Betty. I think based on everything I've seen and the fact that they already have an existing contract with the Lloy to continue to do finish the work, it doesn't seem like this is outside of um you know, it seems like they should have a change order because
they have the same contractor and I would think um there should be a way for us to to allow them to to use the same contractor and it might even violate their contract if they go outside that um that relationship that they have. So, I think it's a little complicated to
just say, you know, go get a new bid. It's not that simple, but we endorsed it. You asked me about the WHC and we recommend go ahead. >> Um, I'm I'm sure the CPC uh members might have noticed that this there was a
request to just do a change order. Normally, something at this level would uh require solicitation of three bids. Um, we haven't been asked before to do this. Uh, I have um I have tried to
consult with the community preservation coalition to see if they have any experience with this. Um, and the person Steuart Sagenar, who you all know is is out of the country. I was unable to reach him. Um I will speak with him of
course before the next meeting and then we will give you um we will give CPC a chance to talk about this a little bit. Um they it seems reasonable to allow a change order. I just have to see if it's
legal. So that's basically it. It couple of other questions I've asked uh recently. I've been told that um there's nothing in the CPA about that. So if that's the case, then it's a decision by CPC.
Hugh, I see you have your hand up. Hugh Morton. >> Yes. I just wanted to point out that I need for reasons with which you're familiar. I think I need to recuse myself in connection with this project.
>> Okay, fine. You John. Yeah, Ben, I got a question. I saw on list serve that uh you guys were having uh trouble with insurance. Has that been corrected? >> That Yeah, you're No, you're right. Um I
mean doesn't really It's not in really relating to this, but yes, insurance. >> Well, it kind of is if you don't have insurance on it. >> Oh, we do. It's just um it's doubled. It's an astronomical amount, John. So, you know, I was I was reaching out on
the list serve to find out whether this was happening to other organizations. Uh whether it's just us. Um my feeling is it if it hasn't happened to other historical organizations, it's going to you this is um just an issue with uh ins
and property insurance in uh the South Coast area. Plus, it's their historic their old buildings. Um so it was a huge shock to all of us to find out what our insurance is going to be going forward.
We are paying it but it's a huge amount and we're trying to explore whether we can find other options. So I can assure you everything is fully insured. >> Okay. Thank you. So this list serve is
if anyone's interested is the Massachusetts Historical Commission lift serve. You can join it. Uh I've used it a lot. You um ask questions and very experienced people answer them and they give you advice. I saw on that issue you
had several responses uh to it and often they can figure out a way that you can manage this. So any historians who are interested in getting on that list serve I I can I can help you do that. Um I are
there any other questions? I wanted to again remind CPC that um CPC has required a uh preservation restriction on the Bell School given the amount of money that CPA has um put into
this project. and also the importance of the building. So, it's one of about three buildings in Westport that have um preservation restrictions. One of them is um 1603 Main Road and Handy House. So, the historical society
manages two of our three buildings that have preservation restrictions on that. And um when we require a preservation restriction, we have to pay for it. Um the preservation restriction is ready.
Uh it's waiting in um uh Boston at the Mass Historic Commission for one person to sign it. Uh and then it will be valid. Um so that's a good way to protect our money and our projects. So, if there are not
any other questions for tonight, uh later we will um vote on sending it through to the January 8th meeting. So, we will keep you informed. We'll form you tonight. I'll send out an email.
Thank you very much, Jenny. >> Okay. Thanks. Bye. >> Okay. What time is it? 7:05. Hey, so the next uh project is the MCumber school playground replacement.
Um it's not completely clear how much money will be asked for, but at the present time the hope of the um committee, the uh potential project manager is that
they will be asking for $300,446. I wanted to say a little bit of history about this. Um, two or three years ago, uh, I saw this item on the, um, um, as a budgetary item and I was thinking they
could do they should come to the CPC. This is the kind of thing the CPA funding is used for. Um, playgrounds as long as the playground is available to the public. uh at least a significant uh portion of the year, which this one will
be. So therefore, it's a a valid project for CPA. And I'd like for Michelle Raposa, I believe Michelle is here. I don't know if the principal is here. >> I am. And our new SE superintendent is on as well.
>> Okay. So, >> Hugh, did you want to say something before they started? I can't hear you, Hugh. >> I know. Sorry. I just want to go a question. Recently, the the school
department decided that tennis courts could not be used in conjunction with the new high school, etc. Not relevant to this except if this is a question of things to be used, playgrounds and so forth. If that is not available during
school hours, that will be a question. I presume that's probably not the case, but I say I just wanted to confirm. >> Yes, the application says that the playground will be available as will the tennis courts outside of school hours,
not during school hours. >> Yeah, the tennis courts used to be available. I'm I'm not going to get into that, but I'm saying there was a question I just wanted to inquire as to whether there would be any question or not in connection with the playground. Your question, Hugh, is will it be
available during school hours? Is that what you're saying? >> Yes, that is correct. >> The answer is M. >> Yeah, I I can respond to that. Um, honestly, we've worked closely with Chief Dunn. I mean given that uh given
the sort of the the reality we live in right now um in conjunction with Chief Dun and best practices we do not allow the public to use our grounds while school is in session. However, as soon
as school is out of session, yes, we welcome it. Our tennis courts are being used by the public um as soon as school is out. Um and certainly if we're not, you know, if we're not in school, unfortunately the world that we live in,
it is not considered um a safe practice and and certainly working closely with both police and fire for us to have the general public have our grounds open to the general public unfortunately while school is in session. I was not going to
argue the issue with the tennis court, but if the playground is not available during school hours, then that's most of the day. And I just wanted to be sure if that is the case, that's a question. It's not the case
>> different. >> Michelle, do you have anything to Yeah, it's it is not it's not going to be available when school is in session. which means basically every day during the school year. >> Uh well that the weekends it would be
open anytime after 3:30 every day during school vacations and all summer long it is available. >> Not the school year. Yes. Thank you. >> Correct. >> Tim the same is the same topic. >> Yeah. I think it would be useful to know
what time of day school is out and it becomes available. Is it like 2:30 in the afternoon? >> 8:30. So usually by 8:15 our students are all dismissed at the Mac Humber School. We have families that will pick up and go right to the playground. So by
8:15 8:20 the latest in the day it's available >> 8 at night >> 3:30 I'm sorry 3:15 sorry >> that's the morning >> actually this was mentioned in the this was discussed in the application.
>> Yes it is. and 3:30 on uh school days and weekends and all summer and school vacations. It it would be available that is typical across the state. Uh Tim, >> right? >> Any school playgrounds? Yes.
Any further questions on that before she could start her project? >> Okay. Uh Michelle, >> yes. Thank you. Um, thank you everyone also for the opportunity for us to um, produce this proposal for you. Um, we're
looking, as Betty said, we're looking for a total of $300,446 from CPA um, for our Makumber school playground. In May, we had a certified playground safety inspector come out um
that assessed the pro assessed the playground. The current structure he had said was recommended to be for a complete replacement. Um, that playground has been there for over 25 years. I've been with the district for 25 years and the swing set and a lot of the equipment that is there is the same
equipment as it was when I started at the MAC school 25 years ago. Um, currently it is not ADA compliant. Um, we don't feel that it is safe from many of the pictures. As you can see, there is a lot of rust, rust edges. we continue to close it off, try to repair
or remove parts of the playground as we go along. So, it is considered at this point many of the areas are not safe and we do have to exclude the kids from playing on certain areas. Um, we we're looking to relocate it because as Dr.
Roy has said previously in this day and age that we're in unfortunately the playground as many of you know if you've gone by the Macumber school the playground is very close to the road and is fenced in over there. Our um plan is to move it to there's like an L-shape of
the Macumber school. Our plan is to move it right in that location that's very close to the school so that way it keeps the kids safe in that area. Um, we're not planning to fence it in right away because we also started a farm-to-school program a few years ago which we have
gardens outside there where the playground will be installed at the same time. So, we are looking to keep that area open at this time because as we go along, we're planning to expand our farm to school program as well as installation of the new playground. Um,
we have gotten three quotes as we've gone along. Um, the original quote for the entire project is about $450,000. We've also spoken to the highway department who in the past has always and they've been very kind and generous
to offer some assistance and removal of the existing one, leveling the the area that the playground's going to go in to help with some savings there. And we did request from CIPC this year 150,000 for anything that's offset with the um demo
prep of the land, concrete curbing, rubberized surface, um any of the surveying that needs to be done. So we have worked very closely with highway and some of the other vendors. Um right now we have not selected anyone
obviously until we see which way this um grant goes. Um, we do consider it a vital piece of not just the school but the community. Um, many of our parents use this use the playground often. I think anytime you'll go by, you'll
always see parents out there with their children playing in the playground. Um, it would make it ADA compliant if we were able to um, put in the new Macke School. It is in a really great part of town. The building itself, we've done lots of work to the building with the
help of CIPC and just our our own maintenance department taking care of it. So, the hope is that this is a community use of property and equipment that would be used for years to come, 30, 40 years from now as the current one has been
used. >> Other questions? >> Uh, I have a question. Uh if you don't get the CIPC project money, what happens? >> Um I think if we don't get the CIPC project, I think that we would still be
able to complete this project with the assistance also of I know that uh Westmac PTO has offered to help with any of the AT ADA compliant equipment. Um they've offered to install swings that could be down the road once we're
completed and whatnot. So I do think that we would be able to get the project over whether it be a one or twoyear plan even if we get the installation done and the new equipment and then next the following year with our own budget and with maybe the help of CIBC and the MAC
PTO to finish complete the project. >> So this uh amount 300,000 why don't you round it up? How about 300,500? >> Sure. um um
is is what you're actually requesting. >> Yes, please. >> Uh okay. Could you um talk about I know that you've consulted the recreation commission and I'd like to know uh what they had to say. I know Tim is here. I
don't know if Tim wants to say it or >> um the recreation commission is not opposed to this project. They support it. Okay. And I and I think you gave a lot of I saw a lot of advice from um uh
Dana. >> Yes, Dana was extremely helpful in the process. Um CPC was not actually a direction that I had even thought of going to be honest with you at the time. And I had spoken to Dana one day and she had said, you know, this is a it's a
great opportunity. It's I think it's a request that you should reach out for. it's a community um used piece of property and you know it's just it's a great thing for our community just to use. So with her help and also just
working together with you Betty as well it it I it couldn't have been more helpful to have both of you on board three of you on board with me. >> Um John I think you have a question. John Bell. >> Yeah. Uh would this uh be instead of the
playground at Bsentennial Park? >> Would it I'm sorry. Say that again. >> Because uh I know there was talk about replacing the the playground at Bsentennial Park. >> I understand that. But would we need the two of them now seeing that they're
they're within eyesight of each other? >> The the question is are they duplicating each other? Uh we gave funding to the bsentennial last year um and my understanding and you can
correct me Tim is that it's quite a different kind of uh facility. Is that right? Well, it's the playground itself is part of a bigger project which includes the basketball courts and the the area
behind, but it is not it's not really accessible to young school children that need a playground that's right outside their building. if they'd had to be led across the parking or the property and
along the road to get to by Centennial Park, it doesn't feel like a safe alternative to just having the one having one which is um the plans that I've seen it's a it's a smaller than the
one at Bsentennial Park and I think it's an appropriate one for that building and I think it's appropriate for it be in that close proximity bysentennial park I don't consider it available easily to
the children of the McMumber school >> um Hugh >> because of the I just wanted to add I think the bicesentennial and the central uh uh central village
playgrounds are sort of orphans they have no connection with anything they stand there. This is a child of the school, which is fine. That's nothing negative. It's just different. But it seems to me it's a little different. And I understand the security
issues, which I do not challenge. But if you move the playground around from where the road is, sort of behind the school, it becomes more and more the school playground and less and less something that
individuals from the community more likely to use because they think they're intruding in the school playground. I know it's catch 22 and the ideas of moving it are perfectly legitimate, but they just point that out as part of the package.
Michelle, do you have anything to say to that? >> Um, I think we could potentially put a sign basically with a community playground. You know, we can so that people would know that it's accessible with the times that it's available. I think that would help draw people to
that. I think we do a great job on our um our website that we have and putting things out to the community so that we could make sure that families do understand how the use of it is. I think that would be helpful. >> I think that's a good point. I think
also emphasizing that this is not you're not intruding into the school's jurisdiction. It's for that. I think that's a good idea. >> Right. So, we would spend a lot of time pushing out on social media a lot of that information. And then I I just talk briefly about what John had mentioned.
So we had entered we had over the past I bet you 15 years or so and even when I was at that school um one of the issues that we had going over there like we would take the kids would always say oh we want to go to Bsentennial Park we go there on the weekend. So we would sometimes have a field trip to buys
Centennial Park. One of the issues over there was one there was no bathrooms and it was a long haul to get kids to come back in if we needed to. Um, two, it was always open to the public. So, you had a lot of older children that were there and sometimes like the language was not
appropriate for the group that we had or whatnot. But, I mean, we had entertained and used that a few times, but sometimes it's just not age appropriate. Um, like Tim had mentioned earlier today. >> What about cameras? Is there any of for
security? What do you have? Yes, >> we have in we have cameras inside of our buildings, not in the classrooms, but and we do have them on the exterior and we actually had received funding over the last couple of years because we've been increasing our cameras for the inside and also the exterior of the
building because we do have kids that stay after school for things. We have staff that stays after school. So, we have gone and increased our security for lighting and cameras as well. And they can be all seen by our SRO's at the elementary school and the new uh middle school high school.
>> So you will be able to see the playground from building. Okay. >> All right. We can see it right now as well. >> Okay. Anyone else have a comment? >> Um I just like to say one thing. Um when
um we thought about this project and when Michelle made the application, I did go to the community preservation coalition to discuss it with them. Um the reason was is that it is a town building. It is a it is a town
playground. Um and their their suggestion to me was that it's very important that the school also financed a portion of it from their own funds
because it will not be complete available to the public 24 hours a day. However, many projects are not available and they're considered public projects in historical uh projects. for example, it only has to be open one day a year in
some cases. That's open to the public. So again, we were a little bit I mean the argument that you cannot use the playground during school hours um is it's valid that it is a security
issue. Um but there is a lot of other time that it will be used. they will be used. >> Secondly, the town is putting in funding and a lot of work to it. So, I mean it we're we're asked for 300. They're putting inund,000
or more themselves. Uh and the maintenance and upkeep. Finally, the security of the playground for our school children. Uh an old playground with has problems. Um, and people get
hurt and I I have heard that some children have been hurt. Um, and so the purpose of the new playground is to protect the children from being injured and also to allow um disabled children
to utilize and that's something that right now is hard to do. So we according to my investigation into it, it is a acceptable project and the kind of project that's being done all throughout the state.
Do someone else have a comment? Okay. Thank you very much, Michelle. >> Thank you all. Thank you for >> appreciate your consideration. >> Yes, we do. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. You have a great >> Thank you.
>> Okay. Our next project is um West Brent Youth Athletic Association um project proposing five tennis courts with 10 pickleboard courts within construction of this and for 400,000 and
the applicant project manager is Martha Sullivan. uh we have already discussed I don't know if you were there Martha to listen but the issue of the fact that the schools do not allow the use of their
facilities during school hours so we won't discuss that that's that's a done deal and I think you kind of knew that >> so um please go ahead >> okay great thank you I did uh I did hear the discussion there and that's been our impression for several weeks actually
months um So, I know there's a lot on the agenda tonight. Uh folks, thank you for uh reviewing our submission. Again, I'd just like to offer some brief remarks. Um and then make sure I entertain any questions. Just a quick reminder about why we're here. And I
everyone I think now understands that um we've been restricted from use. I I we really tried to make it clear in the application just how restrictive that has been and the impact that it has on the community. Um the point is that
we're not here looking for a luxury project for the town. We are trying to restore a benefit that existed for an important part of the community actually for over 20 years. Um we talked about the fact that during the the um six
months there are about eight months you can play outdoor tennis. Six months of those are during the school year. During those six months we're reduced by about 70% of daytime access to the courts. We also try to put in some information to
um provide data that supports the experience that many folks have the difference between playing under nightlights versus daytime. and it's it's quite significant that data is in the application. But we made a lot of progress since the
last time we met with the committee. Um we have um done I think a lot of research, some hard work to reduce the overall cost while maintaining quality and that quality piece is really important. >> Can I interrupt for one second? I'm sorry. >> Of course. Um, I'm presenting what looks
to me like the same thing we had last time, but I don't think there's a newer version of this application. Is there, >> Tim? This is the this is the new version and you are presenting the new version. >> So, you still have concrete costs in
here. >> No, what I'm trying to demonstrate in this part of the application is that we've reduced the overall cost and I'm showing you the comparison. Our original submission, >> yes, >> was for post-tension concrete. >> Thank you. >> And so you can see now the difference
between uh post-tension and asphalt cost. >> Uh what we learned in our in our in engaging with folks is that if we maintain standards, and this is really important, ASBA and USA standards on asphalt, we can get the long-term
performance that we need. And so now the basis for this new application is asphalt quartz. At the same time given the significant reduction you see here it's it's about 50%. That's given us the uh uh uh ambition to
increase the number of courts. And so now instead of three post tension this represents five asphalt courts. These are flexible courts. So they can be five tennis courts, they can be 10 pickle ball courts. The idea is to provide as
much flexibility to the public for use uh to make it make them productive for everybody and most importantly available for everybody. Some of the other things that we've been able to accomplish um we really think that this format now provides it's a
better project. it provides uh a lower cost and it serves a lot more people and we feel that's really important. So I I think you understand what we're asking for here. I'd just like to make sure um the committee understands the momentum that we've built on this
project and the public interest that it has. So over the past three weeks we've lowered the cost as I discussed. We've secured private funding for $100,000. We have foundation grant applications in process. really happy to say we have a
very professional volunteer team including uh a construction oversight manager who has managed tennis courts being built and their maintenance. So, we're we're really happy about that and appreciative. We have a professional grants writer on. I think Laura has
joined us and uh really importantly that's allowed us to begin to think about our public campaign. So, we have that in the ready. We're calling that courts for our community. And so I I think the point here is that this level of momentum really reflects the demand
and our confidence in being able to execute this project. One of the reasons we've been able to bring more people along on this is the equity that this presents in the demographics of Westport. So if you think about where most of the
town money goes and quite frankly and respectfully where a lot of recreational money goes, it is to support the children of Westport. and we know that that's really important. This is a project that supports seniors, families, and youth and afterchool programs. So,
um we're excited about it. We appreciate your attention to it. I'll pause here and um and entertain any questions. >> Martha, could you talk a little bit about your plans for maintenance? >> Yes. So, um I what we hope to accomplish
is fundraising beyond what you see we've committed here. And by doing that we would develop a reserve and the reserve could be used for maintenance. If we're not able to do that our plan would be to actually um frame put a framework in
place which is an annual fee for use. And so you know it's what we'd have to do then is provide a key tag entry to locks at the court and that would come with your annual submission and that money would then be used for
maintenance. Uh the idea here being um the the focus here is Westport residents and their guests. So that's that's the way we would um approach maintenance. And I'd like to say that I checked out
um the use to to be able to do this uh under C CPA funding and the coalition told me there is nothing in CPA that prevents this. and also even giving preference to Westport. There is nothing in CPA that says that you can't do that.
So it this this is within the scope. Um I think Hugh had his hand up. >> Yes, I did a question. Um are there who is we in this context? What I mean by that is we're familiar WA
etc. Uh, it sounds to me there was a suggestion made last round of a club or something of that nature to be an entity that would control it. I'm not necessarily promoting that. I'm just saying that sounds like you made a lot of progress in terms of ways to deal
with it and user fees, all of which make a lot of sense to me. The question then that comes to me is who is we in the sense of I can see there be a a club that leases on some basis from the basic
owner etc and so forth is I don't mean it has to be that way but I think it would be useful to have an idea what the structure would be and that carries with it where the funding sources grants loca uh donations and projected user fees
would be very helpful Yeah. So, the the the way we're going at this now, Hugh, is we're we're really doing it under the 5013C of Westport Youth Athletic Association. Um we've we've had a number of discussions with Ken.
>> Okay. >> We are um segmenting these funds. So, we have our own bank account. Um but the the entity will be uh WIAA. The Wii in this is this this uh particular group that is focused on this
very specific project and that includes Ken who's been quite helpful in in getting this done if that answers the question >> suggestion not tonight obviously but as part of the package as we go to do consider it in greater detail to have that spelled out though it's there on a
it's not freestanding it's related but I understand what you're saying but used to have it articulated for the presentation >> okay that's how Thank you. And and just to this may be stating the obvious, one of the really great synergies here is
there's room on those athletic fields to to put this um to put these courts in place and then it actually brings together a wide swath of the community between families that are playing baseball between the walking path to be developed. So um there's a lot of value
in being able to coexist in that location. One private question. Has Viper converted to pickle ball? >> He He's not yet gone to the dark side. You >> see one of the advantage uh of having it
at the WIA facility is there is a restrict a conservation restriction on that property. So it will remain recreation >> and that's very important to us. It's hard >> when you have the it that's harder when
you like have Mac cumber school will they still be a school 25 years from now um this is not a requirement of CPA but it's something that we we should be thinking about uh and then last year we
approved the uh special uh court that they call it the senior court and again that worked in the same way >> uh that it's on the WIAA uh under their 5013C. Um, >> another thing I just wanted to throw in,
I understand that WAA is a 501c3 clubs or not, they're 501c7. So, whoever is putting together or or distinguishing between the pieces needs
to carefully look at how those things would work in the uh nonprofit is you frequently used the wrong way of things that are not charging profit, not expecting to make money. That's different than charity which is 501c3
and that's where the deductibility comes with a charitable organization. Now, I'm not offering any opinion on it. I'm just saying that as the pieces get put together, somebody need to look at that very carefully because that could be a problem. >> Okay, that's helpful. Thank Thank you,
>> Tim. >> Yeah. um sort of an extension of Hugh's comments, but more specific to the management or scheduling of the courts because I know that pickle ball courts there's just such a huge demand that
people have to take tickets and wait for an opportunity to play. And I'm wondering if they're going to crowd out the tennis players or whether there's going to be some organization that's going to be very careful about scheduling these things. I
don't I mean is that part of your plan or is that going to be left up to some private group to put together? >> No, I I mean I think ultimately you know we have to have an implementation plan. Um, and so thinking that through, we
have that problem today, to be honest, Tim. We have it over at the high school and it ends up being first come, first serve. If you're in the situation where you're paying an annual fee that becomes more tricky and so you have limitations on how long you can play, you could end
up having a signup sheet. It's going to be really important that we find the most automated way to do these things because at the end of the day, it's going to be volunteers. Um, and so, uh, we we've got to think that through. >> You could use some software that might do that for you.
>> I think so. Exactly. >> Yeah. But you're, you have that problem with any kind of organization like this, though. I mean, you're going to have the problem of usage. >> Yeah. >> Just have to do your best. Uh, Deborah, I believe you have a question or
>> Yeah. Just more of a comment. Just more of a comment following on what Tim said. Mark and I spoke about this in between the two meetings, too. There are some good examples of how to do scheduling. Various towns have public courts and they use a website that's dedicated to
scheduling and you have to be a resident in order to get access and login credentials. So, there's definitely some software um ways to manage scheduling. I think you have to sort of wait until you see what sort of demand there is to then design the right sized system because
you may not need a very fancy system to try to get people on the on the courts when they want to play and there is a there are a lot of examples out there that already in place. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. So, and I'm happy to, you know, provide Martha with some examples of that. And Deborah, looking
at the Welssley site was helpful because you you you know I don't have credentials so I couldn't get in and schedule anything but it was obvious that that was available. >> And doesn't Ken have this kind of issue too. I mean with the football the basket the um soccer field not soccer.
>> Oh the softball softball because a lot of that is league play. There is a schedule. So the leagues it's there are some similarities because there's a fee for joining the leagues you know and so that that's managed inside of the leagues. >> So there there are some analogies there Betty.
>> Yeah the young club will have some scheduling material for tennis and golf which is obviously going to the club but at least I could point you in the right direction if there are to that. >> That's right. Yeah. I'm I'm confident we'll find we'll find the right
solution. One thing I would like to mention to the committee um I'm we're very aware that there are like very worthy projects that you are all looking at. In this particular case, there is a timing issue um and there is some urgency and that is because as we stated
in the application there's a window under which during which you can build uh tennis courts because the ambient t uh temperature matters. So, if we're not able to start construction, you know, in the spring, then we're waiting probably
a full year to get that done. So, that's one of the considerations I'd ask you to think about. >> Yes, I have. and of course and I've um asked Nicole uh the accountant to uh talk to tell me
my understanding always what they were available as soon as the town meeting was over if it was financed with um reserves. Um but I've asked her a couple times and haven't gotten an answer. She said she would give me one. I've also am
waiting to hear from the uh coalition um what they say uh and I can get back to you and I will do that before January before the January meeting. >> All right. Thank you, Betty. >> Any more questions or comments?
Thank you very much, Martha. >> Thank you. And thank you to the >> January 8th if we all agree to that at the end. Thank you very much. Okay. >> Appreciate it. Thanks everybody. So the next uh project is the historic
school number 15 uh which is now the American Legion Hall. Um they want to put in a ramp. Um and for they have a price of 32,500.
Um I have noticed that there that was just a number that was given to us and there was no backup for that. I've questioned that to both Paul and Mari. Uh they received that uh quote from a uh
an experienced contractor and they will be getting that um the reasoning for that what's involved etc for the January meeting and I believe it's Paul Schmidt who will be presenting tonight. >> Yes. Yes, it is, Betty. And thank you
very much uh to you and the committee members for putting us on the schedule and and thank you for the earlier appropriation which was presented to the town. Uh as you could see from the
pictures uh in the presentation, the the building just uh looks fabulous. Now uh there it is. uh this wonderful one room schoolhouse that was across the road
um sometime I think in the 20s. It was uh picked up by a group of volunteers and moved across the road put on a and and made into the second floor of a two-story facility and the facility is
leased to the American Legion. Uh and we in turn have made the second floor available to the Boy Scouts and in addition the Coast Guard auxiliary meets in the building from time to time and we have aspirations for making it
much more of a community uh building in the future. Uh the money that was appro has already been appropriated is almost complete. uh we have just enough left to make our bathroom uh ADA compliant and
that is about to be started now. So we at this time we have come before you uh to fund a ramp leading from the second floor uh down to the parking lot and you're looking at the building right now
from the east. So the you're looking at the east side uh face is in the sunlight. Uh the north side of the building is in the shadow and it's along the north side of the building that the ramp uh would be constructed. Earlier
you've seen a very nice sketch by Tim Gillespie uh uh showing the ramp. Uh the only difference is that uh we've concluded that we can do the ramp in two
with two ramps if you will rather than three. So it uh would take up less space in the parking lot. Uh the material would be the same material that we used uh for the uh porch on the south side of
the building. I wonder if we can scroll down. Uh we saw yeah right there that for instance that uh building that picture showing the southside uh shows the new ramp uh
porch which was constructed as part of the uh work that's just been done. And we would propose using the same materials. It's a wood like material. the uh the the ramp step uh the the
floor of the ramp would be uh in gray material and the uh the banisters uh if you will would be painted white so it would uh harmonize with the existing building.
>> Okay. And I I think >> any questions. >> Okay. I'd like again uh for Deborah as a historical commission representative to say what the historical commission thinks about the project. >> Yes. Um they came before us at last
meeting in December and we discussed this um project quite a bit and um the con historic historical commission has issued an endorsement of this project. Garrett Stuck created a letter and um provided it to Betty in time for this
meeting. Um so the historical commission endorses the project >> and many thanks to the historical commission. Could I uh Paul get you to spend a few minutes on remember you
weren't you weren't the commander but previously we approved a ramp and then you wanted you changed it or others changed it to a lift and then you decided to do a ramp again. I think the argument that you're giving
uh although a a a lift would not be as obvious uh and a ramp is why did you decide to go back to the ramp? >> Betty, can I also can I add one more thing though that we did discuss? The
ramp design changed quite a bit. It's no longer two turns. It's just one turn. So, it's much reduced from what it was originally designed. and the commission liked that quite a bit. One person the commission did discuss a lift and we
overwhelming overwhelmingly thought that was not a good idea since it's outdoors and it's very difficult to manage machinery when you have multiple people who need to exit the building and we did >> that's what I wanted Paul to talk about but you just talked about it so
>> is that Paul do you have anything else to say no >> I think uh Betty that's a very good explanation we thought a lot about safety issue And having a little lift outside in principle sounds wonderful, but uh it's very hard uh to imagine one
working in the middle of the winter. Uh and a lift requires a generator uh in case the power goes out at the time you need it. Uh and a lift uh works for one person at a time and it works slowly.
We're very concerned about uh safety issues and feel that a ramp is the way to go. >> You know, note for the record, I am a member of the American Legion, but I don't think it rises to a conflict.
>> No, it does not. >> Okay. >> Anything else? one of those. >> So, Paul, as I said in the beginning, um if you could please for our records, uh
have um Brian Valcart write up how he came to the figure of 32,500 or near that for this project. We we will need that for in January. if you could get it to us about a week before
or the first right after the New Year's. >> Understood, Betty. And we'll do that. Thank you very much. >> Okay. >> I'm wondering if it's possible to get a more definitive drawing than what I've seen so far, which is basically a pencil
sketch. Is that possible or annoying? >> Uh, it's annoying. I tried to do it. Tim, let us let us see if we can't respond to your request. >> Tim Tim, you have a reason that you wanted that. I You had a a a question
about whether it would work, I think. >> Well, I know the reason that I designed three slopes was that's the only way I could comply with ADA and fit it in on the side of the building. But if the grade gets raised, you could get away
with two slopes. Maybe that's what's happening. I don't know. >> So, a better uh sketch, a better drawing, a better engineering uh would be very helpful >> and clear and clear what Tim is saying
is basically >> yeah, >> is this is this a correct will this be a correct ADA >> compliant >> um for all the raises because he he researched it quite a bit. Yeah, >> just having the elevations and what the
total rise is and how that's being achieved with one inch to the foot. That's all I'm curious about. >> Tim, when you say that it could be raised, what do you mean? I I don't understand. >> The grade is raised where you're launching the ramp from, then you're
already higher. you you you'd need to walk out of the parking lot and maybe have a little walkway that comes up to the beginning of the ramp. >> But I I don't know. I don't know what Brian
>> has presented. We should probably look at his sketches in more detail. Yeah, we touched on that at the historical commission and my recollection is that the grades were checked and therefore the ramp the slope of the ramp was was still safe even losing one of the turns.
That was what was said to us. Now whether or not that engineering can be provided to show that but I do agree one inch per foot is the is the slope that's required and yeah we were told the grade was appropriate for the one turn instead
of two turns. >> It could be that it advances further east than my construction did. >> Yeah, I think that it would be wonderful if you could talk with Brian Tim. We really need that by January 8th.
>> Yes, we >> we need that. We need the two things from Brian. >> The write up of why he um um where he got the number 32,500 and also to be sure that we have the
dimensions right on the ramp. Otherwise, it can be problems down the road. We want this to be finished. We've had trouble in the past and we want to be want this to be finished and correct. >> Yeah, we understand the need and we'll definitely work uh with Tim in advance
of uh uh January 8th meeting. Get that get that done. >> Yeah. >> And and you realize that um Paul that um you still have to go out for bid >> for free bids. uh and that just because
it was drawn and so forth does that mean that he gets the the information? We will be giving you a a liaison to work with you and tell you and Mari what are the requirements
um as far as CPC is concerned for bidding and contracts and all of that kind of thing. >> Yep. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Well, thank you, Betty. >> Okay. Uh, the next project is the Harborm um
building restoration and upgrading. There's a little history to this. Um what I said to um the harbor master at the historical commission meeting is this is more a
place setting for January rather than an a straight uh application and you can see that in the application that um there are some missing features. Um, this came before the historical
commission. Uh, and I would like just, uh, if you want to, Deborah, to say a few words about what you all suggested, um, and what Bill went away with.
>> Okay. So, we had a preliminary review at the historical commission because we did not have an application to review with drawings and plans. So we instead had an open discussion about what needed to be done potentially and what kinds of ways
they should approach such a project in order to be in compliance in the historic district. So we provided them with our guidelines and also with the kinds of things that we would be looking at when they eventually present a plan. We also discussed some other major
issues that we thought they should consider, which would be whether or not we were required to have disability access in that sort of um function and whether um and whether they should consider resiliency and flood and storm
inundation into the building. If they're about to put in new improvements, will those be at risk with an inundation? So, we wanted them to at least look at it and consider it. I offered up another uh Westport owner on
the point who had just done similar work moving her shed, elevating her shed and moving it a little bit closer inland and uh offered up some information from that project if they wanted to consider it. Otherwise, we told them they need to come and give us an actual application
with all the details and we would consider it. we could possibly get them on the docket in the January meeting if they could get it together by December 17th or so and give us a full application. So that's the timing that we suggested and the kinds of things
that we um encourage them to explore. Okay. So, um, CPC members, this is the first, uh, it's a town building in the historic district district applying for CIPC funds as well as CPC funds. So,
it's quite complicated. This is quite complicated. Um, and it's late uh, at the end of the cycle. I would something like this probably should have been started months ago in order to um get
this project approved or recommended to town meeting. However, we're giving the opportunity to bill to discuss this with us. Um, this also being a uh town project, it's subject to prevailing
wages, which means that the costs are much greater uh in many cases uh for the work to be done than it would be in a private project. So, it's complicated. Um, before Bill starts, I think Hugh, did you want to say something before
bill starts? >> Yeah, I'm simply going to be the Grinch at the moment. Since the marine facilities have their own source of income from this that and the other thing it I don't have anything against
the project but wondering whether it isn't more appropriate for their own resources rather than CPC which is more generally for the town as a whole. >> Okay. So that's something that Bill could address. Could Okay. So Bill John
are you is this something preliminary? Maybe maybe I'm I'm missing something here. But is that building historic? Why are we even discussing a historic preservation? >> Because >> it's in the district. It's in the district. It has to be under
>> No, it's So if it's not Okay. Well, but it may be in historic district, but is it a historic building, >> John? >> There are many buildings that we have purview over that are not historic buildings, but they're in the historic district. >> Well, what John? Yeah.
>> Uh the requirement I mean I understand what you're saying. It's not an old building. It's it's not um known for its culture and contributions and so forth. But the statement of the chair of the historical
commission at the meeting was that it is a very um it's a central building in the area. Um it's seen by everyone. It's in the historic district and it's on the inventory
and the requirement for CPA funding is simply if you look at on the our website is that it be on the historic inventory. >> The but the on historic inventory or the >> historic it's on the historic inventory.
>> The building is >> the building. >> Yes. >> What year was the building? What year was the building built? >> John, it doesn't matter. It's on the inventory. My my house, for example, was built in 1931 and it's on the inventory. So, >> well, yeah, I would agree with that.
1931. Yeah, I I would I wouldn't question that. But >> I think the definition >> Yeah. Well, that's what I'm looking for. What the what the age of the building is. The definition of his your argument
is well taken but the definition for CPA purposes is that it's on the inventory or that the historical commission says that it's significant. And with those two and those two requirements have been met.
>> Okay. >> Whether we want to finance it, if we really feel strongly that this isn't our prerogative, we won't do this. We could take that attitude. Um, but we could be challenged in court.
Uh, and it isn't, but it isn't. It's complicated situation because it's in a flood plane. It's in the historic district. It's it's a um uh rather new building. Um, it's a town-owned building. So, there are a lot of
complications, but we need the building. And we have the harbor master here. So, Bill, go for it. >> Well, first of all, thank you, Betty, and thank you, Deb, for basically summing everything up for me. Um, this
has been quite a journey, I have to say. Uh I think first of all let me address uh Hugh's uh comment. As far as paying for this through the current budget that we are operating
under um there is not nearly enough um financial resources to do this. In fact, there's just about zero. um the size of the budget that we have right now and what is left after the voting season um
is just about enough to get us through to the end of the fiscal year. Uh I should say this, I went to FINCOM uh the other night uh with the proposed budget to uh to put that across to them. Uh we
will assuming they approve all of this and I feel good that they will uh the size of the budget for next year will increase uh I would say substantially uh but those monies uh have to be targeted to other issues that are
basically operational uh maintenance uh in general. So I I think Hugh the question is a very good one. Why can't you handle it through your own budget? the budget simply is not big enough sir to to handle this and
it's I can say that with with no qualms whatsoever kind of an answer I just asked a question so we could all talk about it right >> okay all right so so the the reason that um I've gone down this path through CIPC
and CPC is is basically because of that this this is the only way we can get this funding to keep the building usable. Uh my biggest fear is that if if we go on 3, five years down the road uh
and nothing happens, uh we're going to be uh talking about a different kettle of fish where we may have to uh replace a building that has deteriorated, excuse me, deteriorated to that point. So, um I have to say the document that I
got from you, Deb, uh was incredibly um clarifying as far as the steps that need to be taken and also Betty, the information that you sent along about prevailing wage and uh ADA uh disability access uh has been uh very enlightening.
Uh this this project is still and as as Betty mentioned, I'm kind of late to the show here. Um but having said that u you know there are aspects of this that we are still trying to figure out. Uh I can tell you
this much um the historical commission suggested and rightfully so that we have a building inspection done so that we are not putting cosmetics over a poor framework. Uh to that end, I had uh
Ralph uh come down, the building inspector on Tuesday afternoon, I believe it was. Uh he did what I would just call a cursory view of the building. Uh there was nothing that he mentioned that we couldn't figure out ourselves just by crawling under the
building. And he suggested we find a structural engineer to give it a better assessment. He did promise though to give us something in writing uh based on that inspection. So, we have gone that far with it. As far as the uh the
disability access to it, I spoke to a gentleman named Ralph Cheeks yesterday. He's with the Mass Office of Disability. And I was trying to figure out does this is does this building is it required to have disability access?
And uh according to this gentleman, there is no doubt that it does. Uh that is not included in the proposal. uh that obviously would increase um the cost significantly. How much I don't know yet. Um so so that
part has not been figured out. Uh on top of that, the small piece of real estate that the building sits on kind of restricts where that ramp would could go. There's only one way to go and that's on the east side of the building.
Um, one of Deb's recommendations is that maybe this building should be raised 12 to 18 in. I agree with that, but another foot and a half makes for a much longer ramp. So, that's something we're going to have to uh get a lot more detail um
on about. And so, I I can uh do my due diligence and see what that would cost. Um, and I I think I I mentioned uh that I've chased CIP CIPC money with this and
obviously CPC with you folks. Um, I am um I would describe myself as as a as a rank novice when it comes to projects like this. Um, my world was in the private maritime world and not in the municipal world. So, um I have to say
I'm probably prone to a couple of rookie mistakes. Um but what I've gotten again from Betty and from Deb has been uh extremely helpful. Uh on top of that, the issue of prevailing wages, I had a little bit of a little basic knowledge
about what they are, how they work. I know a lot more about them today than I did 48 hours ago. So I I guess to sum it up, it is a uh a proposal that still has more work to do. Um but in my view, this
is a a critical project, not just for the town, but for the historical district and for my staff to to be able to operate out of. Um and I I hope to to get something going on in the next 12 months, whether it's through you folks
or whatever other vehicles I can find uh to get this funded. Uh, Bill. Um, when you call the ADA, they will tell you, "Yes, it has to go." And then what
you do is you appeal >> and you go up to the design to the ADA board and you appeal it and and you give them some alternatives um as to what they they might require
and they sometimes agree with you. >> I'm sorry about Daddy. I did not touch on that, but I kind of beat that one to death uh yesterday >> uh with with Ralph uh and he his his position was it's a town office. The
public needs to come in there to get permits to communicate to get information so on and so forth. As such, you are required to have that. Now, he did mention that if the town decided that this building is for employees
only, you know, certainly they could do that, but you'd still have to apply for a variance, I guess, is the is the term to to so where where you wouldn't have to go down that road. So, >> um that's, you know, that's something that we will explore as well.
>> Have you talked to the disability commission? Uh, this was this this Ralph Cheeks was with the Massachusetts Office of Disability. >> I'm at Westport's disability. >> Oh, no. I haven't I haven't got there yet, Betty. To to help out on that.
>> A question. Some questions. Tim Gillespie. >> Yeah. Um, I feel for you having this such a minuscule building. It just seems silly. Um,
but in light of that th we definitely need a more formal project proposal than what we have and we need three quotes. I don't know if this first person is an actual quote,
>> Tim. We don't need three quotes yet. >> Okay. >> We need three quotes if they are approved. But um >> that that is an actual quote, Tim. Mike Bernier has done he's done a lot of work around Westport. Um the full
disclosure here he is u married to one of my cousins so I know him uh from family uh experiences but uh he is very good at what he does. Um and he's not afraid to charge for it either.
>> Did this include um prevailing wages? >> It does not. I can tell you my experience with prevailing wages, Betty, is that, you know, I've probably spoken to three different contractors and as soon as that prevailing wage term comes up, they're like, "No, we don't do that."
>> I know. I know. >> Is this number 47,000 or is it 40? It looks like $475. >> No, it's for just 47, Tim. 47,000. I
thought I was losing my mind for just a >> Yeah. So, so we've got we got two. This this was one obviously and the work is laid out there. Uh the other uh was a threepart estimate. It came from uh D. Ro uh contractors. Um they do a lot of
work over at the harbor. Uh but they don't do HVAC and insulation. Um I had Richie's insulation come down uh and give us an estimate there. And then uh the folks at family HVAC, the the outfit across from the old high school, uh they
came down and and gave an estimate for the uh heat pump. So u those three total, don't quote me on this, 4748. I'm quite sure I submitted those to uh Betty as well. >> 40,298.
>> Okay, there you go. >> Yeah. So, a bit of a bit of a difference here in um in monies so far. Um but I think you would all agree that there's a lot more to be done here and I know that time is of the essence. Uh but I can
tell you that I spent an awful lot of time on this uh because it is that important. Yeah, >> Hugh, did you want to hang off was in terms of the small parcel of land you have? You're surrounded by other land if you need to
put a ramp or something elsewhere. It might be able to you might be able to arrange an easement or something because the body is probably town land and and cooperative, put it that way. >> Julie noted, Hugh, thank you.
>> Yeah. So again, go back to a a very important question and Deborah, I don't know if you can weigh in on this or not, but uh the historical commission gave a lot of advice,
but if the historic if if a project is presented to the historical commission, they vote on that project. Isn't that correct? You you don't tell them what they should do. you. That's right. They >> Yes. So if they come to you with a
specific list of you would say, well, this is how you this should be with this wood and stuff like that. Correct. Is that correct? >> Yeah. Yeah. That what they do is they provide us with an application. The application is very full of all kinds of detail about what's going to happen to
the exterior of the building. If there's a ramp involved, then we would an opinion about that, too. But we would have um you know a full application to review in order to give a certificate of appropriateness. Once that certificate is issued, work can commence
12 months later. The work can can commence. It doesn't have to commence right away. And we could also extend an applica a certificate if needed. So once the certificate is granted, they can take the time to, you know, figure out contracting and other things with CPC
and funding. We don't on that conversation. It's just what it looks like once it's um planned, how how the improvements will be. >> So you're basically saying that um the last meeting was recommendations. If
he doesn't take all those recommendations and just does things talked about, then he >> it was a preliminary review. >> Normally a prelim normally a preliminary review, the homeowner or the person comes to us with
>> proposed plans. This one was more open-ended, just questions about >> how do I approach this and what are the things I have to worry about? And we gave him the guidelines and our little booklet that we have that gives it in plain English. you know what what you have to look for. So it was really much
more open-ended than a typical preliminary review just to give some guidance. >> Well, I just wanted to be clear and for the CPC to understand that um if Bill comes in with a certain request to the
historical commission, uh it's those requests that are considered and they would be the same requests that would come to the CPC is what I understand. Yeah, I mean the CPC more is is is is much more detailed because you're
talking about funding, you know, an air conditioner unit. We have no call on that, for example. >> No, I don't I I don't mean yes point, but yes, but I mean you would give your recommendation on things that are appropriate for you, but remember
>> that's for a certificate of of appropriateness. That's why I say this is very complicated because >> yeah there's two parts you're right there's not there's also the endorsement to the CPC >> so as far as ADA is concerned he feels
there's something is necessary but you could approve these first steps and he could do these first steps without um making it ADA appropriate >> yes
>> and and I don't And we so we give funding for what we call rehabilitation which is one part of the historic pres rehabilitation and that would be ADA.
Okay. Um but the rest of it would be to preserve the building itself. So if you come in to preserve the building itself, you're only talking about certain parts. You're not talking about the fact it's
in a flood plane and it's going to and it's flooded and it's going to flood and all that. Is that right? Are you >> That's right. We're not requiring that he considers inundation. >> No, I'm asking Bill. Bill. I'm asking Bill. >> Uh well, you know, Betty, again, there
are so many moving parts to this. Um I I guess >> no. What is your wish list be before all of this discussion started? What is the wish list? >> Well, the wish list is basically to make sure that the building stays sound. Um,
we I'm sure we'd all agree that any building that has roof shingles missing uh has got trouble ahead. Uh, that's where we are. I would think anyone who sees rotting trim around the windows uh would see there's trouble ahead there
and there's probably water finding its way in somehow. So my wish list from the beginning was to button up the building and make sure it stays dry and and has some sense of building integrity uh going into the future. Um so where that
ultimately ends up um I don't know. This has been a journey I have to say. Um but I just want to see the building solid, watertight and with some measure of heat in it. Well, you're you're also talking
about a heat pump. >> Yes. So, what we have for heat right now are a couple of little electric heaters, >> which, you know, we've gotten by with it for now, but you know, temperature drops a little bit more going into the winter, it's going to be uncomfortable uh in
there. That's our only office. And u you know, the things that we're doing uh this time of year, Rick and I are very busy in that building right now. uh it has to uh continue and has to carry on as the as the harbor master's office. Uh
so uh in the beginning I just said wow look at this building we need to do something to seal it up. Uh and that's what started me on this journey. So if there's a wish list out there it's it's exactly that. >> We need to we would need to see the wish list.
John, >> now I I don't know how long you've been here, but it doesn't seem like there's been any type of maintenance program for that building. >> I've been here since you usually replace them. >> Yep. I would agree with that, John. I've
been here since July 2nd. >> Okay. Yeah. So, you >> That's the day that I was sworn in. And to your point, no, there has not been any maintenance. I think just one cursory look would would take you to that conclusion. So, we are playing catch-up. There's no doubt about it. But
we have to play catch-up. >> What's the uh the town say? >> Well, uh the town knows, you know, obviously I've gone to CIPC, they are aware of it. Uh I feel like sometimes I'm doing a political stump speech when
I talk about it because it's the same thing over and over. Um you know, the building is a mess. It's got to get squared away. We've got to chase funding. Everyone at at town hall knows about it. That much I can tell you. Um and I
continue to beat that drum >> because you don't want to throw good money out the bad if if it is structurally uh compromised. >> Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Uh John, uh that's one of the reasons uh that we had Ralph down on Tuesday. Uh
but that's not the end of uh the inspection side of things. Uh, we still, you know, it's tough to tell what is under the exterior shingles until you actually rip them off. Um, I can tell you that we did discover the other day
that the floor, which is basically I guess a 3/4 inch plywood, uh, has got its issues as well. >> Well, I Yeah, I know under like Hurricane Bob, it was the the bottom of it was underwater. >> No, it had to be. I would imagine it's probably been underwater a few times since.
>> Few times. Yeah. Yeah, >> Bill, the bill the plans for that that would have gone through the historical commission. So they uh Deborah could probably find those those plans. It also
the building department keeps plans quite far back. So you could find out what they put there. At least you'd know that. Um, I'd just like to say that the whole issue of um
of flooding is an issue for for the whole lower point. It's coming up more and more in within the mass historical commission. They're having different seminars and things about it. And if you remember, uh, we gave CPA uh,
recommended quite a bit of funding for the le wararf. uh it gets extremely flooded in hurricanes as you all has probably seen like three and four feet. This issue didn't come up. We didn't discuss this issue. I wasn't in the commission. I just saw
it. It wasn't discussed. Um the you know what the base of it looked like and I don't know whatever happened. It could be that they went ahead and did they they repaired it. Um, >> so I mean I I'd just like to know what
CPC thinks we should advise Bill right now. What um this timing is so limited. Um, but I'd like somebody's opinion on this right now. Hugh?
>> Always glad to offer an opinion. Uh, I think this is next year's project. I don't mean that because I'm against it, quite the contrary, but it seems to be an awful lot of pieces bouncing around and awfully hard for Bill or anybody else involved in it to actually get them
in line and have an idea of where you end up. One thing that crosses my mind is nothing we do about hurricanes that's there. We can't build for that. But maybe marine marine grade plywood or
something or the floor or other things intended occasionally to be underwater. And if it can withstand that and it dry out and keep on functioning perfectly well, that's great. That may be fine in the sky. I understand. Once it gets wet,
too bad. But anyway, that's part of the evaluation of the project and where it can go in my opinion. >> Tim, >> I think they should turn it into a boat and hook it up to a mooring so it can't go anywhere.
Um >> well, >> the thing that occurs to me is that uh if they put together a proposal just for the structure, just for the building, what what Bill's described, the siding,
the roof, insulation, and heat. Um ADA compliance can be addressed at a separate time. and ADA compliance. You can achieve that with these aluminum ramps that are not astronomically
unavailable. Um I I don't see why they can't put a proposal through that don't worry about ADA compliance at this stage. Let's just get the building restored and saved and then it's worth making it ADA compliant.
>> Um that's what occurs to me. just confine it to these simple tasks. I mean, this is not a complicated project. Um, if you just look at the building and with eventually with three good bids, I think you'll get a number that's
reasonable. I think some of these numbers are a little high. Um, but I guess with prevailing wage, how do what do you know? Maybe it's going to be $50,000. I don't know. But that's what I would recommend is just confine yourself to the very specific
things that the building needs to survive and don't worry about this other stuff. >> We also spoke of um for their comfort uh also you know heat pump. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So it it's to make it liveable.
And um for right now, you're basically saying don't worry about the flooding. Do that next year. >> Talk about that next year. >> This building is so tiny. >> If you did, I don't know if you're going
to the electrical that would come to it in order to support a heat pump system, whether you'd have to upgrade the electric service or not. I'm just wondering, you don't have plumbing there, right? >> No. >> So, you could raise the building even
after it's been rehabilitated. >> Yeah. >> You know that every basically every public building must have bathrooms >> and running water. >> So, let's not go there. So, I'm just saying that the the and this has been
this is an issue in Westport and it's slowly been they've been developing. That's why I said to go to the local disability commission. They know a lot about how this works. Um, but it's there
are other buildings around that have the same issues. >> But the fact that it doesn't have plumbing, maybe it qualifies it as an exception to the rule. right? >> Where it really isn't a public building because it doesn't have plumbing.
>> Therefore, it doesn't need ADA compliance. Tim, I happen to have to appeared before the uh I think it's the gas pipe fitters committee in Boston
and on the handy house and I said we we had no running water and we there were no bathrooms in it and they said there has to be one. Period. Mislaid. >> Period. Well, this building bigger than
>> so um the question is do we worry about that as a committee or do we just try to upgrade what is there and see what happens? And that's I think you're kind of saying Tim that we should think about
this in suggest they try to get their basic uh information together and come back in January with it. Go to the historical mission and come back in January. Is that what you're saying? >> Basically. Yes.
>> Okay. Phil has a comment. >> Phil. >> Well, running Yeah. Um because we we we have issues with other buildings down at that location. Of course, running water I mean having plumbing assumes you have running water which assumes that you
have a well and uh and you know and I tend to agree with the direction that you know that Tim is going. I mean or you would need to have a water tank uh
you know to provide the water um and uh you know the um >> I don't know the name of the oyster uh place there but you know they have it's seasonal so you can have portage John if you want under our regula under the board of health regulations if you're a
seasonal facility so um which arguably this building might except for uh you know when the public might need to use it. So >> I think once you get to running water you get into a lot of issues. Yes. Then
you get into putting then you know then you get into you know >> bathrooms require septic systems. >> Yeah. >> It's just not >> it's very complicated. That's right. >> No it's not really. Just don't do it. Well, what I mean is the the regulations
versus what's reasonable. >> Yeah. >> Sometimes it's it and that's true for this building. I I um I think Tim had his hand up. >> I was just going to say that this thing is more like a kiosk than a
>> Yes, I know. >> Surprise. >> What a surprise. The regulator is not reasonable. So, does anybody else have any suggestions? Um, Tim has suggested
that we um suggest to Bill that he uh go to the historical commission with the certain key elements that he needs, get his appropriateness certificate and then come to us on January 8th. Is anybody opposed to that? Hugh said
you thought he should wait. And my question is, Hugh, do you think maybe he should give it a try? >> What about the poetry? I'm just I'm just saying it it may take more time to develop, get the things in an order than ready to go around in January. Sure, do
the pieces as they go. And as far as flooding is concerned, this is probably eye in the sky, but it might be possible to build up the sides and up with something water resistant. So it could in fact resist the occasional flooding
that takes place that goes into the whole stuff that's being developed as to what to do. Just a thought. >> Shouldn't Shouldn't we make sure the building is sound before even even like before we do anything? >> Yeah, agree. Agree. That's where we
start. >> Well, I would just say I am in a historic building. It's 1776 and all the builders have told me my building is not sound. >> So, and we just keep propping it up,
propping it up, propping it up. And and we but we do it from the inside, you know. So, you don't have any inside. So small. >> I I would add to that list of our my family's house there. We have an old house farm down toward the river. We
were told at one point that the chimney was holding the house up. >> Look, we could put a historical trailer down there so you could move it during bad weather. >> Anyway, I it looks to me like nobody is
opposed to giving Bill the chance to come in with an application. Uh, Bill, it will not be 40,000. I'm sure it's going to be more. >> I'm I'm quite sure of that as well. And I understand Deborah has offered to help
you. And um if if anything else that other people can do, um maybe you can find a volunteer >> who you know who knows this kind of thing. I heard Martha Sullivan talk about somebody. Might talk with Martha.
Um you might be you might find a volunteer who will just do this for you. >> Well, I did um Deb reached out via email. uh day before yesterday, I guess, or was No, it was yesterday. I'm sorry. And she gave me all of this and said,
"Hey, I'm I'm here to help. Whatever you need." Uh I was out on the river today for most of the day taking in uh buoys and whatnot. >> Uh so I did not get to any of this uh today. Uh but it looks like uh the
holiday season is going to be pretty busy for me in in this regard, and I'm I'm fine with all of that. >> Um a little context here. Um, you know, Rick and I talk about this a lot, like how far are we do we want to
go with this, you know, um, that are we going to knock ourselves out before we finally figure out that we just can't get any funding? Why don't we just give it to the town? I I don't That's not where I That's not how I operate.
>> What do you mean give it to the town? >> Well, in other words, it's a town building. >> Yes. >> It's It's a mess. Come fix it. you know that that would be I guess a cynical approach uh to all of this. >> Yes. You don't want to do that, Bill. >> No, that's not me, Betty. That I that's
not why I operate and that's one of the reasons why I'm in front of you good folks tonight. So, um if I could, as far as the timelines, um I think Deb said, uh the 17th of December, I need to have
the application in. That's not even a week away. uh to the historical commission. Uh they will review it and then that would put me on the agenda for you on January 7th. Did I get all that right? >> 8th. 8th I believe. >> January 8th.
>> All right. So 1217 and Jan 8. >> Okay. >> Because if once you get it once you get it approved on the 2nd, I believe it'll be of January at the historical commission meeting. you can send it to us immediately and that gives you that
gives you in time. >> Okay. >> You know that one reasons I was saying don't kill yourself to get something to do that when there's so many pieces that have to be put together. >> Yeah. >> Deal with it.
>> It may be next year that you can do it rationally without killing yourself. >> Well, that's good advice, Hugh. >> That's your decision, Bill. Well, I think I've gone this far down this road, down this path. I need to see
this to a conclusion. I guess to me the tipping point would be if I can't make that December 17th deadline for Deb, then >> yes, >> that's probably as far as we can go this year. And then to Hugh's point, let's, you know, reset and and look forward for
next year. Um I I have learned um I think as we all know that um uh municipal government moves very slowly. I just I'm not the kind of guy that move that slow. So uh I really want to push
this along to the best that I can. Uh and again if we can't make these deadlines then we can't. Um >> I I was I checked into the total applications for CIPC. It's like 5.3 million and they're going to have
between 1.5 and 1.8 million. So, there's a lot of competition there. >> Yeah. Which is why I'm here. I I have to I don't know if I mentioned this earlier. Um CIPC has to this point broken down all the proposals into ones,
twos, and threes. this project is one of their number ones, but as you just alluded to, u the number ones total up a whole lot more than what is actually available. So, I think when the music stops, somebody's going to be missing a seat. Um I don't
want to be that guy. So, um I'm going to do whatever I can otherwise to to to get it done. But, so there is some positive movement there. But all that being said, we've still got to go through uh the historical commission anyway. >> Okay. >> Um so,
>> okay. Well, thank you, Bill. Good luck. >> Thank you all very much and happy holidays to all of you. Thank you for taking the time and thank you all for your support and your comments and expertise. It's most appreciated. >> Thank you very much, Bill. >> Bye. So the next application is um the
affordable housing trust project support. Uh we got this project in October. Uh since then um uh there were some questions uh that were asked of the commissions and I understand Leonardi
Ara is here. Is he here? >> Yes, I am. >> Hi Leonardi. >> Hi everybody. Um, could you I don't think we have any preliminary questions. You go ahead and get started. What is it that you want to do? >> I also want to acknowledge that Craig
Dutra is here who's the chair of the affordable housing trust. Good >> and um member of the select board. Um and thank you for moving me up to the APM slot uh because I have an earlier commitment. The bad news is that you are
tired and you felt that you already ran out of money. So, >> no, no. >> So, um you know, I would like to to go through a little bit of background about you know I don't know if I should share
my screen or you will bring it up there. Uh the presentation that I sent Betty. >> Yeah, bring it up. >> Isn't it there? I'm looking at it. Uh, no, that's just the application. >> That's a different one. He's going to do a PowerPoint. So, you can pull out Dem.
>> Yeah. So, let me Okay, here it is. >> All right, team. You have told me many times to be brief. Yes, please. Uh but I've been asked to
to go in details here. So can everybody see my screen? >> Yes, I can. >> Can can you hear me? Well, >> yes, I I don't know. I can. >> All right. Good. So, you know, the Westport Affordable Housing Trust Fund was created at town meeting in 2010 with
the mission to uh help people with low motor incomes afford the cost of housing in Westport. And the trust has been doing that by converting existing buildings to become affordable housing, find a way to lower the cost of housing
in in town for residents in need and build affordable housing. Most notorious you probably most of you are familiar with um No Village. Uh on the left you can see the members of the trust. Like I said, Craig Neutra is there. We have
members that are bankers, people that have been involved with the town for many year, real estate people. Um, so a lot of uh knowledgeable people on this trust. So um the first thing that I would like to highlight is that the trust has been very involved uh with
housing production efforts and the housing production plan in Westport. In fact, the trust is sponsoring three housing production plans before the current one. And what you see on the left are the strategies that the housing
production plan has listed to achieve um uh their housing goals. And to the right are the activities and programs that the trust has been doing that are in sync with those strategies. So for instance, create subsidiary housing uh inventory
units. So those are unit that I uh did restricted home for low low and motor income household. If you look at what we call a small scale development and I can go in details to each one of these program lines up pretty well with that goal. Number five which is the land
acquisition program or providing funding for developers to create uh new housing that does create uh subsidiary or SHI units. And I I have a typo because number three should be included there because the housing opportunity purchase
program helps also to uh create SHI units. Uh there's a discussion on the housing production plan about creating zoning amendments that is the path to create affordable housing with support from the housing assistant office. We
can achieve that to to certain extent. uh the idea of preserving existing housing opportunity so people can remain of their home and also preserving the character and the scale of existing homes in uh in town. If you look at
program uh housing opportunity purchase program and the housing rehabilitation program which we have two types and I can't go in details on that are in total in sync with that adult retirement community I could argue that line
acquisition can help on that but really the trust has no directly create programs that support adult retire community so I will pass on that one accessibility and age in place. I heard a little bit of the past programs here
and there's a lot of concern about accessibility uh not only for people in aging in place but uh young individuals may have limited mobility. The housing rehabilitation program is actually designed to support those needs
particularly for people with uh low income. Community outreach the trust through the housing assistant office have taken various initiative to educate uh the community and stakeholder and town reps about what it means to provide
affordable housing and the importance of doing that adaptive use of municipal buildings and underutilized land. Uh there are opportunities within the programs that the trust have including the smallcale development. Uh the trust
currently have control of a couple of town owned lands. That may be an opportunity for that. And as you know uh no choke village the town purchased the land and then was used for affordable housing. I'm not going to mention the high school but that's that's something
that that can be discussed later and creating this restricted ex um maintaining the restrict existing home. So that's something that the trust on the last couple of year is working really hard conscious that funding has
been put to create affordable housing. Now we want to preserve those de restricted homes. So I will go into each one of the programs um at your leisure. Uh but again, similar to the housing
production plan, uh the trust is working to serve people earning up to 80% of the area median income. Those are what are classified as a low-income household and those are household that are target for
subsidized housing uh inventory units. Um if you look at a household of four people uh making 91,450 uh that's the population that the trust will be serving. If you want to look at in a very traditional way, if you want
to call it that way, mom and dad and two kids, 91,450, may not sound like a lot of money, but somebody's working or both parties are working and they have a a job that that provides some income, but not enough to
cover the cost of housing. Uh, on the marketplace, the affordable price for a three-bedroom home is about $300,000. Based on the housing production plan information, the median sale price of a
threebedroom is $440,000 back in 2022. So you can see that there's a gap clearly there and what people can afford in certain income and what uh the market has to offer. Um the small scale development. So the
way it works is the trust look at opportunities to develop a smallcale development that is one family, two family, three family, very limited um size. Um by the way this the trust does
not develop. The trust helps to fund help to acquire land. On this case here you're probably familiar with the Habitat for Humanity on Southern Row. Uh the trust work its way no to acquire a former chapter 61A land and then provide
a funding to Habitat for Humanity to create this very successful um home ownership opportunity for two families. Um the housing opportunity purchase program the trust to date I've created
three of those homes. The way it works is that the trust will provide a grant to qualify home buyers uh when they're purchasing an existing market rate home in town. So, this doesn't involve any construction, new
construction permits or anything. These are homes that are out there for sale. We're not asking anybody to sell their home. It is people that are already offering to sell their home. And what the trust does is to fill the gap what those qualified low-income households
can afford. And what in that gap on the market, like we said, those $140,000 last time we did in 2021, the gap was actually 175, but those three homes are now on the subsidiary housing inventory.
They're this restricted in perpetuity. So in exchange for that grant, people get a restriction on the resale value of that property and the home that you saw today is not going to change because capital improvement are pretty much not
permitted. You don't get a developer that is going to build a three units there or a big mansion or something like that. Then we have the housing rehabilitation program which it does is to help people to certain home. It could
be um uh an elderly that has been living there for many years and may need an access ramp when you have a leaky roof. So, these are relatively modest programs that are trying to um address sanitary
conditions or co code violations or we have some situations where you know there septics that are collapsing. There's a lot of trust that have been accumulating in their yard and the trust have worked uh through this program. Now
this program has not been funded with CPA funds. The administration has been done through CPA but the funds were recovered from a former CDBG program. Um so we reusing those fund to create a
housing rehab program. Um, so before I go to that, so now the tr is starting a program that is a housing rehabilitation program for the restricted home and this is part of the
request today the $60,000. So um private developer have created home ownership uh affordable units. The trust has supported uh affordable home ownership. Now we wanted to create a program that people can feel comfortable to tap in
these resources and maintain um these the restricted units and as you know no control village I I believe most people have a pretty good impression of this development. So the the trust is working through the land acquisition program to
be ready available to purchase a land and then being able to offer it to a developer to create quality uh affordable housing. Uh like I said there's other opportunities out there of reusing existing buildings. Uh it could
be the high school if that opportunity comes to play. But I just want to highlight the case in in Salim where a former school has been converted into affordable housing. So I went as quick as I could. So Tim is happy. Doesn't say
that I'm taking too long. Um so I'm happy to answer any questions. What about the how much money are you asking for? You have to remind me of that. >> Uh $300,000, $40,000 for the housing
assistant office, $60,000 for one of the housing rehabilitation program that is going to be directly to existing de restricted homes and to add additional funding to potentially acquire a new land. So one
of the challenges you know compared to the different projects that you discussed that are eligible project just like this affordable housing projects are eligible is that these are market driven projects right we don't have um
a a list of property owners that are ready to sell the land we don't know the the trust have to be subject to procurement l to procurement law so we have to issue an RFP to find somebody that wants to sell the land to the trust and we actually did
that recently. Uh the trust receive one proposal but the trust also determined that it was no feasible. So we don't know when that proposal is going to come by. So what the trust needs to be ready is to be able to participate on that market. Same thing with the housing
rehab program. We put a lot of advertising there. We put flyer. We reach out directly. with direct mail, with put uh um press releases, ads, and all that. And maybe one year you have two applicants, the next year you may
have five, and maybe you have three, but the project doesn't meet the project guidelines. Um on the housing rehab program, remember it is a forgivable loan, right? So the idea is that people can use those fund to stay home not to
use the the phones fix their home and leave. >> So here Larry could you give us some idea of what is currently accumulated in your existing accounts? I know it is it is
added on from year to year. What is the present balance in each of them before any new appropriation? >> The current balance is about a,100,000 >> of which >> oh how do we distribute it so that
>> and I I would like to submit this separately but I as you know the the the town of county have gone through a new accounting system. So I just received for the first time the tri balance but the total balance of the trust right now is about a,100,000.
Most of those are allocated for the uh land acquisition uh program. About $150,000 are for the small scale development uh program. another I want to say $100,000 I don't have those exact
number in front of me for the housing rehab and about $45,000 for the office. >> Now is that fund generally available for anything or is it allocated into specific buckets? >> So the biggest earmark line item is the
land acquisition program. >> Yeah, I understand that. But is that is that restricted to land acquisition? Yes, that one is the only one that we agree with CPC. >> Yeah, that's the only one that we can use. The other funds are a little bit
like uh Betty call it funible. >> Okay, thank you. Actually um in several years ago uh funds were allocated in just a general >> yes >> bucket but um we've become
we have become a little bit tighter and saying 40,000 for one thing 65,000 for another and we put them into buckets. Um and correct >> the big bucket is the land acquisition.
>> Uh and the way that the uh >> affordable housing trust is interpret that is for 30 or more units. >> Yeah. Yes. >> At least I see. I think that is your that was your interpretation of it. Um I um
this will be questions. I think Deborah might have some questions, but um I've also been approaching the uh coalition to see uh if you wanted to use if if with a CPA CPC's agreement you wanted to
use that for other purposes. Uh could you could CPC give you the authority just through its own to allocate it to um something else like the high school? um or could we interpret the work at the
high school as more than 30 units? Um, >> and so I the but I was told that uh if it's in our handouts at town meeting
restricted to land acquisition but um I read through some of those uh uh t reports that we gave. Well, let me get it let me straight. when we put when we do a handout at town
meeting that is part of our motion it turns out. So I looked at the wording of the motion and I have sent this to the coalition asking them given the wording of that could we possibly use it for other purposes. I haven't heard back as
I told you before it'll be next week. Um, and that goes into the question of your cooperation with the housing production plan, Leonardi. And Deborah, you haven't left, I assume.
>> Has she gone? >> No. H. Anyway, so one of the questions that that she has is um are you coordinating with the housing production plan?
And two, are you thinking seriously trying to see if there can be some element of affordable housing in the reuse of the old high school?
So the trust and you know if Craig is here he may maybe want to answer on behalf of the trust. So the trust realized at one point that there was no appetite for housing on that site, right? So you know the trust doesn't
have control of that site, right? Like uh any other property, right? So there's only so much the trust can do about it. If a a housing program comes to play to that side, I think the the trust will be
the perfect vehicle to support that. Um but you know as far as I understand uh the town have looked into other uses or non-housing uses right so if the I think the the trust by the way have the full
capacity to support a housing uh scenario at the high school. Uh but again it's not up to the trust to decide what to do with that property. >> Right. Right now, we're on a somewhat of a parallel path with the long-term
building committee process, and we've had some discussions with the planning board and with the long-term building committee, and um and I think there's a growing realization that we should have um the
ability for uh potential proposals for that complex, so to speak. uh that would also include affordable housing. Uh but based upon um some of that's going to require uh a look at the septic capacity
of that that um property. Uh and obviously that you have a lower septic capacity need for that property if you're using it mostly for office buildings. When you put housing as part of the mix, um the need for septic um
increases somewhat significantly. So that's those are the variables are you know personally and I'm speaking as a member of both committees but as a spokesperson for none uh that um we're open to scenarios that would mean that
we would sort of redefine what our parameters are for a project. So we we might look at and say well the 30 unit uh threshold that we were talking about with that particular bucket of money is not practical if we're going to do it do
something with a mixeduse uh development. >> That was my question Greg. That was what I'm trying to determine if you can um use that funding. Um, for example, I
mean, I know you've gone I've lost just just a second, Hugh. Um, >> you have been talking to the um planning board and there supportive of the idea that I understand of some um housing
within that uh project, right? The committee itself, the long-term building committee, um, has already suggested what they want to do with the building, right? >> That is correct. >> And are you trying to get them to change
their minds? Is the plan is the planning board trying to put some pressure? And what does the board of selectmen say about that? >> I think Well, there there was a presentation before the board of selectmen, >> right? Um I I wouldn't say that. Um I
think there's I think the the the select board is somewhat divided on even the charge to the long-term building committee with respect to the the use of the land and the introduction of the affordable
housing trust. I think the um you have to look at the tape, but but that we we had a mixed vote and um and um >> I had a motion that failed. Uh there were some other motions. So we what we
had was sort of a compromised motion on a on an idea that to keep this thing open, but to allow the um long-term building committee to complete the work that it had set forth to do.
and and then at some point in time have uh the uh the project and we very may well I think Leonady correct me if I'm wrong but I think it is on our agenda next week to discuss uh the idea of issuing
an RFP uh in conjunction with the jointly with the planning board that would look at um housing uses uh housing components for the high property. >> Craig, would the funding would you turn
that over to a private sector group to do? Is that what >> Well, that's how we did Noachchoke Village. We used an organization called Community Builders. >> Yes. So, it would not be something that would have to be paid for by the taxpayers.
>> No. >> So, this would be the use of the building for private sector. I remember there was a study done years ago. >> I mean, let's put put it this way. If we're using some of the money we have for property acquisition,
>> yes, >> to do that, yes, the taxpayer is paying um through our CPC u budget for those types of things. But for that kind of project to work, we're going to need some subsidies. Now,
part of the subsidies may be the value of the property. Other parts of the subsidy may be tax credits and and grants that individual developers would bring to the equation >> and do and do the work and take it over.
>> Yes. >> So that would mean that the high school would be partially town operated and partially private operated. Would you >> I I I I and I and in in a broader way just even beyond housing I think that that's one way of doing that property
>> is to look at other institutions that need uh space of that nature um and be willing to to do that and and I I can think of without going I've already given them out publicly but I think there's some fairly large uh
institutions in our region u that may um with um encouragement um look at uh the the making that part of uh their expansion plans. >> You mean that's not affordable housing though? >> Well, it would be combination of both.
>> Okay. >> But the project that you're submitting to us today um doesn't include any of that. >> Yeah. >> I mean you're what you're asking for except for the fact that if you could
utilize the funding in the um large scale >> largecale development and that >> funding um Leonardi let's get Leonardi wanted to say something we'll get back to you Hugh Leonardi
>> yes I just want to you know technically clarify is that you know the 30 units is not a random number is because any >> yeah anything below that it is much harder to secure funding from other sources. So
>> the larger the the projects are the more you can tap in other resources. Uh otherwise the resources are going to have to be local. So that's when those smallcale housing development becomes a challenge, right? And yes, like Craig
said, any anything that the trusts involve will be through a private developer just like control villain just like a habitat for humanity. >> Um I also want to clarify that we call it the land acquisition program, but what is written on the application make
reference to supporting uh developments through pre-engineering and all these kind of things. So there there I think there's a little bit of flexibility on that. >> Yeah, we actually if the town meeting um
>> our the information we put out said that >> basically. So I I was wanted to see if I could find it. It does give flexibility and CPC can can you it doesn't have to go to town meeting if CPC agrees.
>> Okay. Uh Hugh I was just going to say that as far as the old high school is concerned, there are variety of different opinions of what should be done with it. There's no unonyimity that it should go into low-inccome housing. But the question I asked a while ago was what have the
actual expenditures been during the past fiscal year for the various categories that were itemized recently? >> Yeah. So the expenditure has been on the housing rehab program uh running the
office and also we the trust issue an RFP to potentially acquire a piece of land and that involved you know writing an RFP advertising it and reviewing the the proposal. actually the the trust
advertised it twice and um we had the opportunity to review a potential option uh but it didn't look viable. Um and we always have inquiries for the housing rehab program uh but we're cautious of
how to select those um cases. One of those just to illustrate how the programs are running but may not work on a given time. We had an application where I didn't need to ask to do all that. I'm really looking for dollar
numbers that were spent. I do understand that the office is a continuing expense. >> Yeah. >> But it actually subjects rather than categories and dollars. >> I will have to to put it together, but most of the >> the land acquisition, they haven't spent
>> we haven't spent any >> any of that. So that's why now the the the trust is starting to add more funding to that program. So now it can be a more effective program when you put an RFP
out there to ask land owners to offer the land. Now you can compete on the market. >> Well, what about spending the other buckets that you mentioned >> the the uh housing rehab program? So, I
I believe because I just saw the report early uh today, uh the trust has spent like 36,000 from July to now. Oh, by the way, I'm sorry. I'm glad you asked. The the trust owns a piece of land from the town.
>> Yes. >> And we were looking at the possibility to creating another habitat for humanity development, right? A smallcale development. So, uh, we hire a contractor and engineering firm to do some pre-development, define the
wetland, and it turns out that the side doesn't per >> um, so, >> but we have to do the homework, right, before you issue an RFP. So, >> school street. >> Yes, correct. >> Yeah. And I think my understanding is
that there have been some changes on the town on the requirements and they're a little more restrictive in in the uh decide didn't perk. We tried that uh a few years ago but decision that when the
perk tests were done were inconclusive but this time I think there's no doubt that given the you know what title five is and the requirement of the town uh doesn't meet the the requirements the soils don't per to meet the title five
>> Phil could I have a comment from you on that >> billberg You just pretending you're there, >> Bill? >> Well, his microphone is off. >> Microphone is off. I know, but he can hear us
>> anyway. I'm sure that that's that's true. Um, Deborah, you're gone. I know she had a lot of questions, >> but basically do you think that the
possibility of housing um by developers at the old school is dead or alive? >> Greg, >> I would say it's alive in that there is a lot of interest in this among the
community. The question is, can we find and I you know and I I appreciate Leonardi sort of correcting me on the fact that we we do have uh scale um requirements that is that are that guided this but there may there could be
I but I I I think that we need to um um look at some of the prop see what we get for this proposal that we're going to be RFP that we hope to draft. uh it's either going to be an RFP or an RFI and it would be a joint project of the planning board and the select board
although that has not been approved by uh I don't know about the planning board but has not been approved by the select board >> Craig um what pot of money would you use to finance this >> we'd look for a broader interpretation
on the acquisition >> in that there were that It's pre-development costs. It's pre-development cost. >> Pre-development costs. Yes. >> I was asked by the chair of the long-term building committee um what I
personally thought about the use of CPA funds for this. Was it possible? And I said yes, I think it is. Um but I will look into it further and I will know next week a little more. But I looking at thinking about the fact that you all
put the 30 uh unit uh requirement one thing and the fact that the um handouts and town meetings are broader. It includes development pre-development cost and that's what this would be. >> Yes. >> So
>> so you may have to go through that account which >> it's all right with me. I don't know about others. >> However, >> is everybody too tired? >> Are there any other questions? Do you
Hugh, do you want them to come back next month with answer to your in your question about exact expenditures? >> No, I think I think I'm going down that road far enough. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, are there any other questions?
>> Let's move on, shall we? Okay, >> thank you team. >> Okay, thank you Leonardi. >> Good night. >> Thanks everybody. Good to see you. >> Bye. >> So, um my question is uh for you guys.
Um and I'd like a vote on this. Uh first of all, >> can I do a vote of all of them or just go through them and wait for a hold? Um, I would like to, um, try to take
them all as in one fell swoop and see if you want to pass these on to the meeting next month. >> Is there enough of us here to vote? >> Um, one, two,
I don't know. There are seven people that I don't know who are there. Maria, who's here? Uh, you have five members right now. >> Who are they? I know it's >> uh Tim, you. Yeah. Hugh, John, and Philip. >> Phil.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Do I have a motion? >> I would move that we move all of them to the next meeting, but I don't have the numbers in front of me. >> But do we need that? Can I just say that?
>> Yes. You the >> That's what I move. We move them all to the next meeting. >> We move all of the application submissions to the next uh meeting January 8th. >> Yeah, >> I'm going to second it for discussion.
>> Who Who's that? John. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there any discussion? >> Yes, I think we should move it to the next meeting. So, we at least have more people than I think it's just the four of us here. I I >> No, Phil is somewhere there. He He's still there. I think
>> yes, I'm here. >> We woke him up. >> We woke you up. Uh, okay. >> Any other discussion? >> Okay. All those in favor, please say your name.
>> Deborah. She's not there. John >> John Bell. I >> Phil. >> Phil Weinberg. I >> Tim >> Tim Gillespie. I >> few more than I >> Betty I
>> Okay, everybody's very tired. >> Can I propose we approve the minutes and then adjourn? >> Um, >> yes. I there's Yes, but I I wanted I need to make a couple of announcements. Is that okay? Um, is there a motion to
approve the minutes as written of November 13, 20? Move they be approved as written. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second you. Martin. >> Is there any discussion? All those in favor?
>> Deborah out there. John >> John Bell. I >> Phil. >> Phil Weinberg. I >> Tim >> Tim Gillespie I. >> You. >> Betty I. That's unanimous. All right.
In the next meeting will be January 8th, we will have a public hearing, okay, on these projects. At the end of the public hearing, we do a regular meeting and at that meeting we make our decisions.
>> In the next meeting, >> I will tell you whether or not the funding's available. It is. Okay. But I will tell you the next meeting I will bring. We will have a February meeting and I will bring the um the handouts for
town meeting, the the funding, all of that to that meeting. The second thing we need to do on the 8th is we need to have you say any comment you have on the annual report.
You received the annual report, but we didn't put it into the agenda. So take a look at the annual report if that's okay with you. We will present that. I have to do it the 8th because it's due the 20th. At least normally it's due the
20th. At the February meeting besides the stuff for town meeting, I would like reports by the liaison on all the outstanding projects that they >> are part of. So I that's February
and um we will look at the role of the liaison because we've written up a new uh um guideline for liaison but we need to look at it and questions needed to be need to be asked about contracts and all
that kind of stuff. Um we will also decide on whether we will be sweeping the funds. There's one fund with 60 cents in it. I think we should sweep it. So, things like that. So,
I will write to you about all of this, but I just wanted you to hear it now. Um, and do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> So, move Tim. >> Second. >> Second. >> John, you second.
>> Yeah. John Bell. Second. >> All those in favor? >> John Bell. I >> John Bell. Okay. Bill >> Westby I >> Bill Weinberg. I >> you >> I that's unanimous. Thank you very much
everybody. >> Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas everybody. came in the air.