I'm calling the meeting of the CPC to order at um 5:31. Uh we would like to do the pledge of allegiance. Please, if you have a flag around, >> I pledge allegiance to the
>> flag of the United States of America to >> the indivodisipy andice for all. >> The chair's announcement. This meeting is being held remotely in accordance with the governor of Massachusetts March
28th, 2025 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GL chapter 38 section 20 allowing remote and hybrid meeting options for public bodies through June 30th, 2027. This
meeting is being recorded. I'd like to open the regular meeting. Uh the first item is approval of the minutes of December 11th, 2025. All receive the minutes.
Um do I have a motion or do I have a motion to approve? >> So move. >> Second. And John Bell. >> Um I have a couple of corrections. >> Just one second. Um, >> forgot >> Tim Gillespie
had his hands up. Deborah, Tim. >> Oh, >> I is not working. Tim, you're blue. You're muted, too. >> I don't have his picture on there. I can't see him. >> Tim, are you muted?
>> He's holding up and he's muted. He's >> holding up for us to read. I can see but >> can't unmute. >> Oh, we cannot or no. Okay. >> Okay. >> There might be too many people on the meeting to uh
>> No. >> No. No. >> Okay. We'll go to Deborah. Deborah. >> Okay. I just I just had a couple of corrections on the minutes. Can I do those now? Go ahead.
>> Okay. So, uh there was um the uh tennis discussion uh the tennis courts discussion. Let me see what page that is. I think uh the minute said that I had met with
Mark Schmid regarding the tennis and I actually met with Martha Sullivan, not Mark Schmidt. Just want to find the right page. >> I had the same question and uh I was embarrassed to ask because it would mean
I couldn't remember that it had happened. >> We didn't meet. So, I didn't want to admit my senality had gotten worse. >> Martha and Martha and I met, not Mark. So, I think it was just a uh maybe the recording didn't pick it up.
>> The correction. Uh Deborah, >> the other correction I have is on the same uh topic on the tennis. It said that the uh fields were in accordance with USA and I think it meant to be USA. Martha can correct me on that, but I'm pretty sure they meant USA. That's
correct, Deborah. >> Okay, that was the only corrections I had. >> Maria, did you get those? >> I don't see Maria. >> Maria? >> Yep, I got it.
>> Okay, Tim, you still have your hands up? >> Tim's still muted, so this meeting will go by a lot quicker. >> Actually, I think he's not. >> Tim, if you hear, why don't you go off and come back on?
Oh, see the mic doesn't say he doesn't have a mic there. So, you should mic Tim say something. He's there. I don't know what the issue is. I >> I think he's working on it. That's why he took the mic off.
>> Yeah, the m That's right. The icon disappeared. >> And mine is still there. He's still >> Okay. >> Uh maybe we can come back to this later. We can come back at the end of the meeting and agree to view this. For now,
uh we do have a motion in a second on the floor. Um why don't you resend those? Oh, Tim. There's Tim. Tim. >> We heard him briefly. Apparently, >> we need Tim. >> I think if he logs back out and then
logs back in, uh, he should be should be able to make that work. >> Yeah, Tim log out and log back. Okay. All right. Could I have rescending the motion in the second please? Who made the motion? >> I did Morton
>> and the second. >> I'll resend the second. John Bell. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Okay. Um, I am closing the regular meeting and and opening the public hearing to discuss projects forwarded by
CPC to the public hearing for recommendation to town meeting in 2026. >> Do you need a motion to open the public hearing? >> Go ahead. >> I move that we open the public hearing
to second, please. Any second? >> I'll second. Hugh Morton. >> Hugh Morton. Second. Okay, I'll call for Is any discussion hearing? None. Call for a vote. Hugh.
>> Hugh Morton. I >> Mark >> Mark Schmid. I >> John. >> John Bell. I >> Debbie Deborah. >> Deborah Shialy. Hi
>> Tim Gillespie is not here. Uh Betty I Dale, are you around? >> I am Dale Weber. I >> Okay, thank you very much. All right, >> Phil Weber. I >> Oh, Phil is here. Okay, Bill Weinberg.
Good. We're all here. Um Tim Payton, the first item uh on the agenda is the Westport of Florida Burough Housing Trust Housing Office Rehabilitation and Land Acquisition for 300,000.
Um we had this covered in the last meeting extensively. Um there are some questions out there um that uh we would like to cover and a couple things I'd like to say. Um
I think we could begin that way easier than having you redo uh the whole thing. Uh Craig, >> that would be helpful. >> The first um I think uh Deborah had questions. I think Deborah was off the me off the
call by the time I got on last last time. >> She was. >> Yes. Uh I my internet connection failed right while Lenn Leonardi was presenting so I ended up having to see the recording to see what was said at the meeting and of course I read the minutes
as well. Um I guess my only question really is about the followup that was done with the housing trust. Uh there was some talk about getting the uh company that did the report to the town
on the master plan. It was called the comprehensive municipal building study and they came out with a plan and there was someone who talked to the housing trust about having them do a revision for that plan so that there could be a piece of that incorporated with a
housing component where you would take the existing conditions whether it's the water or the septic limitations and work backwards to how many how many units of affordable housing could possibly be built as part of that
master plan, that huge project. And my understanding was that there was agreement that that could be done by RGB and if they had if they if they had some funding from the housing trust to amend their project, they could do that. And I
believe Thrasher was bullish on that idea that he was amendable to having some housing as part of that that plan. And then I read and and heard what Leonardi said at the meeting and it wasn't consistent with what I my
understanding was about the interest in housing at the high school site. He said there was no interest in a small project and he defined 30 units as a small project and therefore it wasn't it wasn't useful. So, I don't I don't understand why housing isn't being
considered >> by the by the housing trust. >> It has been, but the problem is it has not been considered recently by the long-term building committee. So, th this is a pass the buck situation. So, I I don't want to go
into detail, but we have been meeting with the planning uh board uh recently. We've had discussions about some potential uh open spaces as well as uh housing uh areas where the housing
was being developed for market rate and there's a potential to add um non you know affordable uh and um >> hello hello hello >> yes we can hear we hear them
>> so >> yes >> so it it my position I wasn't there at the point when the priorities uh shifted away from housing towards um towards the reuse of municipal buildings
and and and and and similar type structures. We have on almost an annual basis brought this forward. We also understand that some of the properties that were under the
consideration by RGB did not fit into uh I think the expectation that we could do something of 30 units 30 units or more and as a result you know would we consider something that was at a at a at a larger scale certainly larger than
what we did with Habitat for Humanity a year ago but not quite as large as what we did with um community builders in in 2010 and through and through that period of time. >> Okay. I think I think there might be a
misunderstanding on what the potential uh amendment to the study would be because the idea was not to scrape all the great work they did and not have these other uses but to have a both and situation. So you have not only the
community space, the recreation space, you know, yoga rooms and all these other great things for the community and and fields, but in the middle part of the building that would be earmarked for housing, and you'd back into the number, you'd back into what could it sustain,
what could it support based on water and other kinds of things and and time of use and that sort of thing. So it was not a not it wasn't a zero- sum game kind of thing. other things had to drop off in order to accommodate the housing. It was like what how much housing could fit into the existing plan they came up
with. And that conversation did happen with several people is my understanding. And I didn't I didn't know if anything was followed up. And when I read what Leonardi said, it sounded like there, you know, it was set aside that there was a conclusion and it was not followed
up. So that's what my question is. Is there followup before this master plan goes before the board and before the town? Because there is still time. >> I there is still time. I agree with you. I I I I think there's some there's some
process issues that when the when the long-term building comm and and I full disclosure, I sit on that committee as well. Um, I am a relatively new member um and not in a leadership capacity. So,
it's I play a different role in the affordable housing trust than I do on the long-term building committee. But on both committees, I serve as a select board's representative to them and um so I have to accept my responsibility. So
when the committee decided uh to when the RBG gave us a menu of choices for a variety of things, the menu did not include for their study the affordable housing component, but as you pointed out within there was sort of a
campus-like structure, community structure where you went from a one big 125, 150,000 square foot building to a couple of smaller buildings. things which would >> the diverse types of functions and um
that that that you you you you outlined. Um I think that does provide us an opportunity to reopen um consideration of that. I think it also means um that we need to also um
take a second look at uh septic technology and and what is the capacity of the grounds and buildings for um housing because when you do build housing as you know the septic needs of housing are a
lot greater than they are for admin for for municipal offices and schools and So the density of of use is such but it's also a constantly evolving uh use of
technology. Uh and and a few of us um I I've met with um company out of New Bedford called Aqua Point. Um I I'm I happen to be fairly good friends with the founder. Um we've we've you know
we've circulated some ideas. um about ways that they might be able to advise us. Um we're not saying necessarily they would be doing it but they do have um subject knowledge expertise that could say let's take a fresh look at what is
the capacity of the grounds because under any realistic scenario for expansion of water and sewage in the town of Westport I don't see it extending to um the uh the old high
school site. >> Could I interrupt here? Um I think that where this has a role in this meeting tonight is that um in the request for uh 200,000 for land acquisition
um I think that it should be broadened and um I have actually talked with um the community preservation coalition director uh about the wording of the
previous uh land acquisition. And it says that there this money can be used also for pre-development and pre preconstruction uh cost and he he agreed that that means
it could be used for uh uh projects which are less than 30. It can be any number of uh projects. I think tonight that we should add and Deborah I think
you've thought about this. We should add to that that to this uh request that um the affordable housing trust will be working with the planning board to
implement the housing production plan. I know that there are members of the affordable housing trust who want to do that. >> Yes. >> That would be one part of it and the other part would be to expand
the um use of the uh this particular request of 200,000 for the purposes of looking into the possibilities of there being housing in this uh in the old high school. Um, as far as what I understand
is that the um long-term building committee wants to go ahead and put uh their request on the ballot. Isn't that correct, Craig? >> Or are they waiting or what's going on there? Because that does impact
the affordable housing trust. And we've had some discussions about the advisability both within the committee and with some of the inter committee communications that have occurred about um having these parallel paths
going on at the same time because it I mean it it it's almost um so I I I'm I'm one saying we've got three months um to um tighten up our presentation. If we can I I I think it would be a good
idea if we can loosen up the language for the the request and the recommendation uh to um from you to the to the to the to the to the town meeting as well as having the select board weigh in on it.
Um it would you know in terms of because we do have a role in recommending on all of these warrant articles as well. Um and then you know we can decide depending upon where we think we have the greatest opportunity for short-term
um u activity to uh tailor our um presentation and town meeting towards that. >> Let me let me get the questions that are out there and we'll come back. Mark, you had a question or comment.
Actually, I think Hugh's hand up was up before me, so I don't want to jump in in front of him. >> Go ahead, Mark. That's all right. Time. >> All right. Thank you. Um, well, first of all, in respect to uh the planning board's interest in
working with the housing authority on housing. I mean there's no question the board has been um been very um very interested in in uh the whole question of getting more housing in
Westport. And so there was some when the report from the um the long-term building committee came out with the proposal to develop the old high school into a community campus
and as you as you've just said there was no housing component included. So, the board um they invited members of the u of the long-term building committee to
come and so we could have a discussion about it. that that didn't materialize, but I know that um that our chairman did meet with the planning board uh sorry with the select board uh Greg you recall
and um you're right there was a discussion about well uh if we introduce housing now or if we go out and try to get a proposal to convert that building into housing then
uh is that going to undercut the enthusiasm for the campus proposal, the campus idea, the community campus idea. And uh so I think uh from my reading of
of your deliberations, Craig, at the board, a select board level, uh they sort of thought that was better to let sleeping dogs lie and not push ahead with plan with introducing the
housing idea at this stage and just to take to the voters this proposal for a community campus. That's what my understanding was too. Craig, is that your understanding? >> My understanding I was not uh 100% in
support of it, but I also recognized that um I mean I think I think that that the majority of the select board wants to uh not own or feel responsible for
the former high school. and and it and there's and there's some interest in trying you I think there was some that wanted to sell the property thought we would do well or or or create a a a vacant piece of land that you could do development on. So I think within the board there's not
an I don't think there is a consensus of what the highest and best use of the property based upon >> Okay. So, so basically, uh, Deborah, let me ask for Hugh to make his comment and then Tim and we'll get
back to you. Hugh? >> Yeah. I The thing that is missing to me so far, the various studies and plans of what might be done, septic carrying, this and that. I haven't seen anything where there's even back of the envelope
of what it would cost, A, and B, where it might come from. So it's maybe I missed something in an appendic somewhere etc. But I don't have any trouble with people estimating what the septic carrying would be and so
forth. But it seems to me unless there is some order of magnitude of what the investment would be and where it would come from that it's spinning wheels. If the town is gonna have to vote on something, certainly not gonna vote in
the pig and the poke of borrowing. I don't know what it would be, but that's really my point. >> That's my point. >> Okay. Um Tim Gillespie, >> I'm just wondering if anybody can hear me. >> Yes, we can.
>> Thank you. >> Um Deborah, we can't hear you. >> Yeah. Um I um my understanding is the cost came down quite a bit from originally it was around 80 or 90 million and then it came down to the $40
million range and it's still no housing component in either of those plans and the a couple people that I spoke with thought that there's the plan that's on the table right now where there's a multitude of different distinct buildings. there was still room
in the middle of the campus to build new housing or to take the uh center of the high school down to its edges so they could meet this thing called the stretch code which is a new code that has to be
met for housing. and they would just skinny down the housing piece to just the center and that would be on its own funded by a developer who would come in and do a proposal. So it could reduce some of the overall cost the town might have to vote on down from where it is
now to even a lower number. And the other benefit of that is to have multiple constituencies voting on this thing. You have the seniors, you have the, you know, Council on Aging folks, you've got all the different constituencies who have a stake in it because something's there for each of them. So, it has a higher
chance of passing. That was the theory that was said to me and it sounded pretty good. So, I didn't know if there was a way to carry that water to the select board. I know they don't want to derail the vote. I understand that. I've read all the articles in the newspapers. They want to stay on the track that
they're on because this is this thing has been a victim of, you know, study after study after study for years and they want to get to a final decision by the town. So that's totally understandable. My understanding though is that RGB
could add this amendment to what they already have done in time for this to be considered at the final town vote. That was what I was told. And you know, if that can be done, great. If it can't, fine. But I think Betty's point about
expanding the use of the funds that CPC grants to this group is a good one because if there is pre-development money to add this amendment and pay for it, then they could continue this work before the vote gets taken and maybe
there could be a housing component which would reduce the cost of the whole project. Yes, I think I that we've spent a lot of time of this and what really is before us tonight is the the amount of money that's going to go to the
affordable housing trust for what purposes and um we can't decide >> if anything at all is going to happen. We we just have to give them a chance. And so what I'm right >> asking for or and Craig, you should be
asking for this actually >> is that the the we expand the definition of the land acquisition uh part which is already in there but expand it that it can be specifically
that this money can be used for pre-development um construction uh studies for prop for properties that um are less than 30 acres. I mean 30 uh
units. >> I I think if you made that adjustment, we we're pretty much in sync because we we've always considered predevelopment cost as part of the package. >> Yes. And secondly, that I would really like to that you will in cooperation
with the planning board on the housing production plan. >> I don't wanted to say that it was >> Hugh. Go ahead. >> I object to expanding the definition, etc. But the town does not have the
money to support it. The state has spent most of its money on Biden's illegals where Massachusetts is not exactly looking forward to federal large s at this point. So the this does no harm to expand the
possibility. I just think there has to be if the town is going to be asked to borrow, the only way it could deal with this in any way, then there's going to have to be dollars and cents because you can't just authorize borrow whatever might be necessary.
>> So, I guess I'm wasting my breath. I'm just saying it seems to me unless there is some fairly concrete idea of what it would cost or where it would come from. We had a lot of effort being put into nothing that's ever going to happen. No
harm expanding what you're talking about. That's simply paperwork, >> Mark. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't want to um prolong that because I I think it should go ahead with the with the vote or or the recommendation on this proposal. But
just FYI in terms of just one last note on the whole issue of the high school reuse, the plan, one of the planning board suggestion was that that it um be put out an RFP go out to housing developers, many of which many
of them are around and uh do routinely take old high old school buildings to them into housing. And so it doesn't involve any money from the town. the town is actually dis taking this disposing of it or they can give a long-term lease of the develop or the
develop whatever it is but it doesn't won't cost the town anything but it gets us the housing that we're looking for so >> okay Tim Gillespie no you're still on there >> I didn't Oh sorry you >> could lower your hand please
okay so what do I have a motion Deborah, do you want to try? >> I move that we expand the use of the proposed funding for the affordable housing trust to
include pre-development specifically in addition to the other um elements they're already asking for. >> And and for POS units less than 30. Yes. >> Less than 30 units. >> Okay.
>> Is there a second? >> Dale Weber. Second. >> Any discussion? >> Okay. So, we're talking about the total of 300,000. Um 200,000 with these expanded terms which Maria's gotten. Um I'd like to
take a vote. Hugh. >> Hugh or nine. >> Mark. >> Mark Schmid. Hi, >> John. >> Uh, this is to move it on to the to move it to >> No, this is to add to the wording to the
uh land acquisition portion. >> This is just for the amendment. >> This for the amendment. >> Okay. Yeah. I John Bell. >> Phil. >> I Phil Weinberg. I >> Tim >> Tim Gillespie. I >> Deborah >> Deborah Shelby I
>> uh Dale >> Dale Weber I >> Betty I. That's unanimous. Okay. So, thank you very much. Um and we will when we adjourned we will make a decision on all of the projects and we will let you
all know tonight. >> Okay. And if you could do that and then uh if somebody could also get the wording for this motion as soon as do possibly recommend then I can put it >> I'll bring the next meeting. >> Got it for you. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Okay. Thank you.
Bye. >> Um the American Legion Hall Sanford School ADA compliant handicap ramp uh for 32,500. >> Oh, come on.
I believe that it's Mari May who will be representing the Sanford School. >> Hear me? >> Just one second, Mari. Okay. >> There are a couple things missing in the in the past which um Tim Gillespie has he's going to put up. >> It isn't.
>> Can you see it now? I'm presenting. Can you see? >> You don't. No, I see we see your request for funds. Um, >> I don't see the >> What do you want to see? >> We We want to see that document that was sent to you yesterday that showed the
drawing and the use of the materials which Deborah sent to you. >> There's Brian Velcourt's quote. >> And then that's the Commission on Disabilities. And this is the imagery.
>> Yes. But there was another image and information that Deborah sent yesterday. >> It was a PDF that images of a deck as a representation of the type of materials and then a list of materials that would
be used. >> Was that sent by Maria or >> sent by me to you and Maria and Betty? Let me find it. >> I could send it again right now. >> Okay. In the meantime, Mari, did you
have something you were about to say? >> First of all, can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Good. Um, I um just was going to say that, you know, you the chair had requested uh three items from us
following uh Paul's presentation to the CPC on December 11th. And those three things were the the letter and uh second of all more detailed graphic design which Tim has provided. And third more discussion on the uh the
cost and you all have these documents. I just saw Tim present them. I saw them flash by. Um, do you want we have it the the the third item was uh
the what the cost? What were the cost? You just gave us a number 32,000. We wanted to know the materials, the type of materials and the design of the materials. And that's what Tim is looking for right now.
>> I've got it. I've just got to put it in a position to see it. >> Okay. But what I have is what Brian gave us, Brian Valkcort gave us. Uh it was a cost estimate for $35,000 which included a breakdown between uh
materials and labor. >> No, but you also since then uh through a lot of hard work by several of us um we now know what the materials are. We know what they're going to look
like, >> okay? and we know the cost. >> Okay, >> so here it is. >> Yeah, those are the materials we used last year on the uh on the on the first uh CPC grant that we got. And we put a
deck and a new stairway on the south side of our American Legion post. And uh we used the the railings are are of historic design and um that's what we intend to use on the the
ramp on the north side of the building. >> Could you scroll down a bit uh Tim because the materials are >> No, the other way. >> Scroll up, I should say. Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. The materials will include index
railings, historic reproduction rating, clad and white, the never need painting. The ramp will be constructed of gray composite material similar to trex. The material has a wood grain non-slip surface that does not need to be painted
and the fasteners will be hidden. This um this information is is also sent to the historical commission. The historical commission as you know previously in the last meeting said that they approve this. So this is now for
our records which the CPC had not seen before. You're also saying uh Mari that the amount has increased from 32,000 to 35,000. Correct. >> I would like to revise that number further. Um,
in conversation today with a number of the members of the American Legion and our executive committee, um, we had a couple members who were concerned about the existing deck and that if um, you had a wheelchair with a person and a
person pushing it, that the weight of all three of those things might might collapse the front uh, deck. I talked to Brian Valkcort about this. He said he would come take a look at it. He was hoping to get something in writing by
this afternoon. I never got anything, so I cannot present it, but he suggested adding $5,000 to the $35,000 request for a bottom line of $40,000. But I don't have any documentation on that. It's
just oral. So, you're asking us to approve something without any documentation. >> I'm asking I'm just um giving you an update of our current thinking and ultimately that will be put into a
request, but I don't have any documentation right now. Tim, >> I'm just putting up this picture of what is there now. >> Yes. >> And that railing that is on that deck now is that radiance rail, which is the
same thing that Deborah had presented. Um it um and that's what I included with the design of this ramp. I had assumed that this old deck surface
had already been replaced, but you're suggesting that it has not and that it's not in great shape. Um, >> I'm suggesting um first of all, we moved that building over from across the street 90 years ago, and it's obvious
that that deck has been rebuilt since then, uh, because it's not wood. It is composite material, but it's older composite material. And what I'm suggesting or what I'm conveying to you is concern of of a couple members of our
executive committee on the American Legion is that that end of the of that deck, which will be where the ramp begins, is is needs to be looked at and um maybe
uh solidified. I don't think Brian Valkcourt went into that issue. As you can see, there's some kind of grading um or um I don't know what you call those crisscross things. >> Lattice. >> Lattice. Yes, that's the word. There is
lattice there that really has to be removed to be able to study it. And um in discussions with Brian Valkcort uh briefly over the phone, he said he'd take a look at it and come up with something. And um he has not done that
in in print documentation, but he did say I said should we add another 2,500 to make our request 3750. He said add another five which would make the request 40,000.
I mean I'm not I'm not you know Tim do you have any comment on this? I I'm not a contractor, you know. >> I am >> architect, but you know, I'm not >> I know that contractors resist spending a lot of time figuring
out what things are going to cost and they like shooting from the hip and shooting high usually. Mhm. >> Um, what I would suggest is that a number be put on this extra part that would easily cover it, but I think we
need to we need to consider and I don't know how Brian would feel about this, but I would like to have this project built on a time and materials basis. He he determined what he's going to charge an hour for his labor and he give us
invoices of all the materials that are being put into the project and that way the project is thoroughly quantified. we know exactly what's going into it. And he would get, you know, whatever he marks up on materials that he buys,
that's a reasonable thing, whether it's 10% or whatever, and a an hourly rate that he would charge. And I think that that other deck needs to blend in with this new ramp system so it doesn't look
like a patch job. It's not the most fun, but you the radiance rails that you see there can be dismantled in which they would have to be in order to do that deck. But it's not a huge project. I mean, you could get those
railings off of there in a matter of hours and then rip up the old deck and throw the new one down in conjunction with building the wheelchair ramp. So, I don't think it would be a huge expense. It would take some time, but um
I I would go along with adding money to the project, but with the with the understanding that the way the project is going to be built would be time and materials. >> That's the way that Tim, that's the way that normally um Brian
estimates. He gives you he gives you time and materials. Well, he doesn't say the time. He says the cost of his cost directly. Remember that this um estimate from Brian is just that. It's an early estimate. This is a project that that
still has to go out to bid and I assume Brian would bid on it, but we have to open it up to others. Um when we did the bathroom renovation, I contacted eight contractors. I got four who were interested, two who eventually bid, and
Brian was the lowest bidder. But going forward, we have to do that whole process again for this ramp project. >> See, the difficulty really that I'm having here right now is that this is the final meeting on projects and you're
introducing a whole new aspect of the project without numbers, without back the backing. That that is something we have to consider. Can we do that? Uh, Hugh, do you have a question? >> Well, that was basically what I was
going to say that can we do it subject to confirmation, subject to detailed estimates? I'm not sure we can in terms of the timing you mentioned. Uh, and I'm troubled to do it. It isn't really an estimate. It's a This is I guess it
might be kind of when we don't know what it needs to be done at all. So, I'm just reluctant to do it >> with without really knowing what the project is. >> Uh, John, >> yeah, I kind of agree with you. We don't
know what's under there. So, we don't know what uh what's under what if anything else needs to be replaced under that deck to support that weight. Mark. >> Well, yeah. I was going to comment. So,
if the deck, when did when was this deck built? Was it fairly recently? >> Uh, you want to, you know, you want to wild guess here? I would say because they use compact composite materials.
>> I would say it was maybe 20 years ago. Well, well, I mean, I don't know if >> the It was not done with the exterior work done last year. It's older than that. >> That's right. Timothy Tim, did you have another
>> Well, I would suggest that if it was if that deck was built within the past 20 years, it would have had to pass the uh review of the building inspector and comply with the code. So, I would suggest the structural framework would
have to be adequate to support new decking materials. I don't I can't imagine that you would have to do any reconstructing of that deck. Um, should have been built with pressuret treated lumber and probably built with either 2 by8s or
2x10s 16 inches on center. And if the building inspector let that slip by and it isn't adequate, I would be very surprised. >> You can find that out by asking the building inspector about it. Mark, do you have a question? >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I
was trying to get around to that point that uh that if the they pulled a building permit and there's even a drawing on file, you could check and see what the structural um you know members are. But um but I suspect that if it did
get approved by the building inspector, just as uh uh Tim said, it it should have should pass muster. Um I want to bring up one other question if we're if we're have questions about this design.
Um did and and maybe Tim, you're you accounted for this, but I didn't see it on the drawing. if you go back to your your sketch in there um because it does have some bearing on the
cost of it and if this is accounted for uh fine but there's supposed to be handrails you know Massachusetts >> yeah the secondary handrail I I didn't have time to draw that in but that is intended to be and Brian knows about the
secondary handrail that would go sort of halfway up on the inside. Whether you'd have to do both sides or not, I'm not sure what ADA compliance requires, but in the course of drawing this up and
multiple communications with Brian, he he is aware of the need for that secondary rail. I just didn't I threw this together very quickly. It took me a long time, but I I managed to get it out
in time to bring to this meeting. And you know, structurally, I think it's covered. But in terms of the secondary handrail, that would definitely have to be there. In fact, Brian was telling me that what he had done on another project was he built the
secondary handrail out of wood. Um, and that's that's something that could be done and it would probably be cheaper than having it made out of welded pipe, which is normally the way they do it. >> And well, Massachusetts though requires
two handrails. They the upper one is anywhere from 34 to 38 in above the ramp. And the then there's a secondary one below that that's 18 to 20 in. And then you have so you have to have two two handrails, one up one above the
other. And they have to be on both sides of the ramp. And you have to have a distance of a clear distance of 48 in between those handrails. So I don't know if any of that's been taken into account. I assume it has, but I just want to uh
>> Well, this needs more work in than the drawing department, but uh >> Well, that may affect the cost of it, too. It's my only other >> Oh, it doesn't need a lot. I mean, it's wide enough to right now the way it's drawn, but I don't think the framing you would need any more framing than I've
already indicated there. These are all 2 by12s. You could add a couple inches either side if you needed to to accommodate those railings. I remember when we did the ramp on the annex, um,
we did we did have two rails. We had a middle and a top pipe break. >> So yeah, know I the number that Brian has come up with I suspect is low um
for what this thing is going to take. But you know he's he tends to build stuff um and they come through less than other guys do. I just know if my company built this thing, it would be over $35,000.
Um, >> can I >> I don't know. I don't know how to go about this. I mean, if this ramp is going to get built, I think the budget needs to get bigger to accommodate the possibility that other
builders are going to come in high. If Brian can provide what this needs to to be um with all the railings that are required and stay on budget, I think that that would be great. But uh
I don't know. It's sort of this thing has been cobbled together because we haven't had the detail that we need and this is the closest thing we've got to a detail and it doesn't even have all the details.
>> Mari, could I ask you um you said that the ADA that the disabilities commission said it met ADA. On what basis did they say that? Um, I I'll have to conjecture here, but I
went and talked with Martin Costa at his house, and I showed him the original drawing from Brian, the u the pencil sketch that he did. Um, it didn't look very sophisticated. It doesn't have the high art that Tim's drawings have, but
it had a lot of detail and it had a lot of numbers and it had it had all the good stuff. you know, you have to have that 1:12 ratio. If you have to rise 70 in, you have to have 70 ft of ramp. And they knew that. And that's why they So
Martin and I talked and then I requested a letter from Martin and Martin said, "It's better if my chairman write it." The chair is Brian Gallagher. And so Martin got Brian to write the letter, I assume, based upon the conversation I
had with Martin Costa. Okay. Um, so we have a dilemma here, guys. >> Well, I I I think that you should listen to Tim here. Uh, this project has a lot of momentum right now and takes a lot of
experience. And what we're asking for is another 5,000 up to 40,000. And this is not this is still a project that has to go out to bid. We don't know in the end whether $40,000 will cover this project. I'm hoping it will because
we're working with, you know, Brian, a local contractor who lives very close to the American Legion. He doesn't have to go far to do the work. And I think all that goes into his calculation. Maybe he does bid low. I I don't know. Tim knows
better than I. But um we spent a lot of time on this project. Um it's obviously a small one for CPC relative to a $300,000 project for the school. And I would just plead with all of you and and
with Tim, your expert contractor, to um approve this project with the $40,000 price tag on it. Otherwise, we have to come back and do this whole thing again next year. >> And I'll be 80 years old next year. Maybe you'll be doing with somebody else.
>> Me, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> No, actually that's not true. Timoth Tim uh Hugh could you you had a question. I we're being asked to approve a project an an increase in cost of a project
which we don't know whether or not it really needs to be done and that's what >> he only charges so he doesn't charge us the full 40 he charges you know 32 or 35 >> if there is money available to do the
project somehow or other costs have a way of uh of accumulating to consume what's available I'm not making any aspersions about about Brian. I'm just saying general principles of the 40,000 available, the
project is likely to cost $30,000. I think we have to wait and then we know what we're talking about. I'm sorry. >> Well, then that puts it off for a year. You >> and I'm sorry, but I don't I don't see an option. others may disagree of course but
>> uh one one of the issues is um well there is a possibility that we could uh extend this discussion until February on this project.
Uh my issue is we've extended it and it we keep running up into these issues that oh everything wasn't considered we don't have the documentation and we've run into that Mari in this
project the last two three months um will you have everything like in February will you have everything that you need that's one question the other question is can Can you do the ramp
uh without doing the um the porch? >> Sure. I mean, we um we we we um it wasn't me that brought up the issue of is the deck uh solid? It
was a couple other members. Um Tom Flynn, John Tunny, Paul was there and um they just wanted me to uh talk to Brian about it and Brian came up with another estimate um of $40,000. So
>> I'm I'm suggesting that we >> next year or something. I don't care. suggesting that we um approve the or we um consider the project as you've presented it. Instead of at 325, you
have it at 35. But that's not because you're adding anything. It's because you realize it could be more. You had no contingency in it. So, you're asking for 35. Okay. And you can do the port later.
come back next year for the porch. >> Okay, >> I'm suggesting that now. I have I have other a lot of other people interested. Tim, you're first. >> Well, if you look at the framing on that little the beginning of the ramp up at the other deck.
>> Yeah. >> The direction of the decking goes longitudinally along the length of the deck. >> Yeah. And I would suggest that you could build this ramp and throw some decking
down on that little square landing. And at such time as you want to consider doing the other project, you could take that decking up so that you would wouldn't have a butt joint there between the two decks. And then you could do a
nice job of red decking that other deck and just have it flow onto that square ramp. So I think you could do this project without doing the uh the other deck and just come back on the other deck another time. Mark.
>> Oh, yeah. I don't Yeah, I just gonna say that I don't know that I mean I'm fine in approving the um this original this revised request the $35,000 uh provided you know the American Legion obviously understands the risk that
might they're taking that it may be more but that's not our problem problem. I think we were the discussion part of the discussion was just to uh point out that perhaps there are some things that may add some cost here. Uh but if uh if they're eager to get the project
approved and get some CPA funding, um why not? I mean, why why not go ahead with it as presented and they take the risk for any overages? >> We we can't take the risk. I'll speak as the finance officer of the American Legion Post 145. We've got a $5,000
budget a year. And if you want to destroy our budget over that $5,000, I I plead with you please not do that. >> No, we're saying Mari, let me let me let
me see what you >> want to put the risk on. >> Just a second, Mari. Please. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I just had a question. Just a clarification question because all of the grants that we are making, we're not doing a guarantee that we will cover
100% of anybody's costs. We're basically saying you're proposing this, we will either recommend it or not. So, why not just go with what's been proposed that's already been documented? Look, if it changes, and it seems like it's not you're not going to know this for a
while. >> Um, they could come back next year for another grant, but I think we only can pro we only can grant what's been proposed and documented. Otherwise, everybody who's on this docket, >> they're all under the same rules. People
have to provide the information consistently. Otherwise, are we guaranteeing the cost of something? I don't think so. So, we're just going to respond to what's been proposed. And I think that's fair. I don't know if that's ever done in any other way.
>> We've never done it. >> I just want to respond to that because it seems to me one scenario, we approve the 35, which I have no objection to. You go out and get bids which come in at 45. So, you say we don't have enough
money to do it, so we don't do it. and next year you come back with a revised project taking into account what has happened and ask for 45. >> Okay, >> it seems to me that the that postpones things, but it doesn't require the post
to raise money for something if it's insufficient. And I think that the comment about we don't guarantee that it's going to cover the whole cost is right on the money. So there's an amount allowed for the project. >> Okay. And if it turns out not to fit,
then your option is we find some other funds. Probably not true. Or we wait and come back with a revision. Why isn't that air? >> Well, we will, you know, we would um with the 35,000, if you were to go ahead and approve that, we would put it out to
bid. >> Yeah. And what happens? >> And if if the bids are all above that number, then we just come back again next year. Okay. And >> you know we we went with the previous project with the Sanford school
there wasn't enough money to do what you had hoped to do and they also some of it was diverted to the uh pavement which we had not expected. So I think that there's a
little lesson in here. you should try to get two or three people to look at the cost and come in for it. But I I I recommend that we agree to increase the price um the 32,500
to 35,000 because the cost of the the uh wood has gone up even in this short period. And um this is happening in in every in in a lot of places, but I
>> I do not recommend that we raise it to 40,000. >> Okay. >> And I'd like a motion um to raise it to 35,000 or 40,000 or whatever you all want to do. I'd like a motion from
somebody in the committee. >> I move >> I move to um have >> Wait a second. Wait a second. You speaking uh Deborah go ahead De you >> I say where I move to increase amount to 35,000
>> for the projected >> yes >> is a second was Deborah >> Deborah >> any discussion further discussion okay we'll have a vote >> Hugh Morton I >> Mark >> Mark Schmid I >> John
>> John Bell I >> Bill >> Bill Weinberg I >> Tim Gillespie >> Tim Gillespie I >> Deborah >> Deborah Chely I >> Dale >> Dale Weber I >> Betty Betty Slate I So we've raised it
35,000 and we will consider uh whether or not we'll support that in the regular portion of this meeting. Thank you Mari. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Bye. >> Bye bye. Okay.
The Bell Schoolhouse Club repair and replacement. I believe Jenny O'Neal is here. >> Hello. Jenny is here. I see her, but she's got her mic muted
right now. Maybe she's gonna >> Jenny, you're muted. Jenny, >> she stepped away. >> Can you hear me, >> Jenny? Yes, we hear you now. >> Okay, you can still hear me? Yes.
>> Good. Okay. So, uh this is an application for $49,000 to uh repair the clabboards at the bell school and to um repair flashing over
windows and doors and over the bulkhead. And this is part of a multi-phase project to renovate the Bell School. Um, and once we repair the cloudboards, we can move ahead and paint the exterior.
And that in theory is the last phase of um of the Bell School project. Um, and I did want to mention we have an open house this uh on Saturday, January 17th, um, 10 to 1. So if you haven't
come to see the Bell School, you are very welcome to to come by then. >> Okay. So since um the last meeting um we've clarified for sure that um this can be a change an order. What is the
word order? Change order. >> Um that that is uh a possible it's it's a small part of the whole project. Um, that's one of the important things and it is allowed around the state to do
this. So, uh, you will not need to go out to bid. >> Okay, >> that's good. >> So, we don't need to vote on this because there's no changes. Uh, we can just move on
unless somebody has any questions. So, um, it'll be repair and replacement. That's right. >> Actually, okay. All right. Thank you, Jenny. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. >> The next item is the Westport Land
Conservation Trust uh Drift Road property. I believe it's 311 uh for 300,000. Um there's been some clarification since the last meeting and so Ross Moran is here to speak to us.
>> Thanks, Betty. Um, so yes, last at the last meeting, we were uh still working with uh a couple members of the family to agree to that purchase price. We have since uh had an agreement on that purchase price. Um and it is in fact 311
Drift Road. Oh, thanks Tim. Yeah, you've won. Yeah, that map right there, Tim, is a good one. So, the properties outlined in red. Um, on this particular map, it's on kind of the, as you can imagine, 311 upper portion of Drift Road. It abuts, uh, currently a conservation restriction
that we hold. Um, and that landowner is interested in donating the land to us longer term, which would be combined with this 28 acre property to become a new public destination property here on Drift Road. This 20 acre 8 acre property
at 311 drift road has significant watershed into Kirby Brook. Um, one of our prized cold water fishery resources here in Westport and a significant ecological resource. Uh, supports native brook trout. Uh, back in 2023, uh, a
state biologist found some brook trout at the mouth of Brook Kirby Brook that were of significant size. So, it supports uh a really cool species here in Massachusetts that is pretty rare. Um, in addition to that, the the property has an interesting story. The
family um had a an orchard orchard that they supplied some fruit across town in the community. Uh what we would be doing with the property is turning it into a a public trail. Uh as well as reviving uh the orchard on the property as an aesthetic component to it. um trying to
tell the story of the family like we have in other properties that have an agricultural component. So um you know, we're excited to get this one done. Uh as always, when we partnered with the we're grateful for partnering with the CPC on projects in the past, um the the
support from the CPC comes from with through the purchase of a conservation restriction during the process. Um that will permanently protect the 28 acres into the future. And um that will guarantee public access uh and uh you
know that conservation restriction you know uh protects all of those conservation resources and retires all of the development rights on the property. So, if the uh the purchase prices the 1125 and appraisal will likely come in right around that, uh the
retirement of those rights um all of the rights, the building rights means that a CR is worth far more than $300,000. Um the only thing um you know that uh is slightly different than the application would just be that I would uh request
that the town consider co-holding this like CR with the Buzzards Bay coalition as well um as they share expertise in the cold water fishery resource and there they will be scheduled to hold the conservation restriction on the land to
the south um when we acquire it. >> Okay. Hugh >> uh does Mark I guess a fairly standard inquiry. Do you have other private funding in part of this acquisition? And if so, who might that be if it's
>> Yes. So about 300 would come from CPC. Another 300 is a state grant that we'll be applying to for later in the year. Uh and then we currently are in conversation about uh a lead gift um with with another party at the moment which would leave us you know a balance
of 400 and change to to raise. Um you know we we are usually pretty good at raising private funds. Um we'll be reaching out to the public as you know in about the next month Hugh to begin that private fundraising. Um, we have
many different conversations going on and you know I have I'm I have a lot of confidence we would be able to get to that fund. >> Well, thank you. So I think I would need to recuse myself and general principles. >> Thank you, Hugh.
Are there any other questions, comments? Okay, >> my only comment Betty is >> Oh yes, Mark. simply that this is yet another very good use of CP CPA funding. So, um
>> thank you. >> The importance of preserving property in this town is, you know, along with housing, it's it's a uh it really is a priority and and uh land trust has done a tremendous job.
>> Phil, do you have anything to say? Phil Weinberg? Um, no. I I um I think kind of when I said before the fact that you know it's um protective of a cold water fishery I think from a conservation commission
perspective um you know makes this not a unique property but an important property um that is definitely worthy uh of the of the conservation restriction because our cold water fisheries are being threatened by a lot of different
climatic and and developmental um stresses and to be able to uh you know protect this one I think should be a high priority. >> Appreciate that. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you. >> Decisions later. Okay. All right. the Westport Youth Athletic Association uh tennis and pickle five tennis and 10 pickle ball courts interconnected
uh for 400,000 uh Martha Sullivan I believe will speak. >> Hi Betty. Um I'm here no update really since our last proposal. lots of progress. And just to make sure
everybody understands, these are five mixeduse course uh courts that would be placed uh in the um Westport Youth Athletic Association Sports Pavilion. So um great great location.
uh we have additional quotes out but uh requests for quotes out given the holidays we don't have those responses back so we don't have new information in terms of financial impact but we're confident that um we can manage the project inside of what we're requesting
the only other thing I would say is you may have seen we've begun our public campaign >> so you'll see a a press release follow quickly and we're seeing a lot of enthusiasm and momentum in in in Westport for this project.
>> Deborah, >> I just want to say I was one of the recipients of that campaign today and I did make a donation. I thought it was great, Martha. It was a really welldone website to explain what's going on. I was just curious, how much have you
raised through that campaign? We we uh have pledges for $100,000 at this point. >> That's great. >> Yeah. And thank you for the donation. Thank you very much. >> I'd like to I'd like to also um follow
up a question you had uh was whether or not the funding uh would become available immediately because if we use reserves and uh I actually got an answer today. I mean I I I got an answer
previously from one party but from the accountant who confirmed yes that's the case that uh the money becomes available. However, um you need to go out to bid. So, get one would have to in
in a case like this, one should get all everything ready for the RFP. Uh and then you put that out and you would get the funds um after the fund, you know, that the funds could will be available
as anytime after that. >> Terrific. Thank you, Betty. That's great news. >> Okay. Are there any questions? Okay, we'll we'll decide later. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, committee. Appreciate your help.
>> The MCumber School Playground Project 300,500. Miss Raposa. >> Yes. Hi, I am here. Um, we do not have any more changes since the last time we presented to um the CPC committee. Um,
we're in the same spot. They have recommended for CIPC though to move forward to town meeting with the $150,000 request that we did send to them just to help absorb some of the cost of the um project.
>> That's excellent. So, you'd have the full amount. Excellent. >> Yes. Correct. >> Are there any questions, Deborah? >> Yeah. Well, the only question I have is I was reading again that proposal and now that you have uh more funding, would
you have the handicap accessibility now for that playground? I know some of the some of the parts of it were not accessible to some children because they were dangerous in some way. So, is that now handicap accessible that playground? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. Thanks.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. Are there any more questions? No. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, >> Michelle. >> We look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, so I'd like to close the public hearing and do I have to have a
vote for that? >> I don't think so. >> Mark, do I have to have a vote to close? >> I move that we close the >> I move that we close the public hearing. >> Second. >> Weber second.
>> Bill Weinberg, second. Okay. Uh, a vote. Any discussion? A vote. Hugh. >> Hu. I. >> Mark. >> Mark Schmid. I >> Don >> John Bell. I >> Phil. >> Phil Weinberg. I
>> Tim Gillespie. >> Tim Gillespie. >> Deborah. >> Tim Gillespie. Hi. >> Good. Deborah. >> Deborah Chalty. I >> Dale. >> Dale over. I >> Betty I Betty Slate I uh that's uh
unanimous uh to resume the regular meeting. Uh I sent you information on available funds and um we do have available funds for all of these projects. So it won't be a question of
matter of um the ability to pay. Uh it's a question of whether we want to um go ahead with these uh projects as presented and um I am suggesting that I read through the
projects and if you put a hold on it then we will discuss that. Is that okay with everybody? Any objections? >> I just am not going to get any dinner if I hang out here much longer.
Well, you're you're gonna hang out for this one. >> What time at your house, Tim? >> Okay. Um, >> my wife threatening to divorce me. >> Uh, Westport Affordable Housing Trust, 300,000
with the amendment. Historic Preservation, American Legion Hall, Sanford School, 35,000. Bell Schoolhouse, 49,000. Clabber repair and replacement. The
Westport Land Conservation Trust, uh, CR on 311 Drift Road, 300,000. The Westport Youth Athletic Association Pickleball and Tennis Courts, 400,000. The Matt Cumber School playground
project, 300,500. All right, can we take a vote? I move we accept those. >> Just a moment. Deborah had a a statement. >> Just a quick just a quick statement because we heard from uh the harbor master last night at the Westport
Historical Commission and Betty I I know you um we talked about him withdrawing his proposal from CPC which he has now done. That's why he's not on the vote tonight. So, I just wanted to let everybody know as a followup, he did get his certificate of appropriateness last
night from the historical commission, and he's going to be doing his exterior work with CIPC money that he hopes to get. Um, and we approved all the different uh changes that he wants to make to the exterior of the building. He's not going to lift it right now.
He's going to keep it where it is, maybe lift it at a later date. Um, and he's going to try to seek a handicap waiver because he had no plan to do a ramp at this time. Just wanted to give you an update on that.
>> Okay. Excellent. So, um, may I have a a motion and a second to approve the projects as read? >> I make a motion we approve it as read. >> Second. John Bell. >> John Bell. Second. Okay. Any discussion?
Betty, I need to I think I need to note for the record that as far as the school is concerned, I am a member of the American Legion, so I'm not active. I don't consider it a conflict, however. >> No. Hugh
>> Hugh Morton. I >> Mark >> Mark I. >> John >> John Belli. >> Tim >> Tim Gillespie. I >> Deborah >> Deborah Chely. I
>> Betty Betty Slate. I Dale >> Dale Eber. I >> Okay, congratulations. We'll send uh an email out to these to the people tonight. Um we have uh uh we have get I
had Deborah do the uh annual report some time ago. We have to pres get it in by the 20th of January. And so we're asking for any comments, any changes. Tim, >> I would just like to compliment the team
that put together this annual report. I think it's a fabulous job and you guys don't get enough credit. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Alrighty. And the um Tim, who else? Somebody just No.
Okay. So, may I have a vote? Approval of >> accept the anal report as written. >> Okay. Second. >> Second. Second. New Morton. >> Vote. Hugh. >> New Morton. I >> Mark >> Mark Schmidt. I >> John >> John Bell. I
>> Bill. >> Bill Weinberg. I >> Tim >> Tim Gillespie. I >> Deborah >> Deborah Chely. I >> Betty Slate. I Dale >> Dale Weber. Hi. >> Okay. Uh there is no um that passes
unanimously. Uh there is no conf uh correspondence and notifications. The list the bills. There are again I'd ask that we I read them and you
put a hold on them if you want to. Uh legal services for the Bell School preservation restriction, $71050. Electrical work at town hall 150,000. The advertising for public hearing on 18
2026 6150 ADA compliant bathroom at Sanford School 6,410. There will be more spend on that clerical code expenditures expenses for period 914 to 1225
69412. May I have a m motion to approve? >> I'll make the motion to approve. John, >> I'll second it. >> Second, Dale. >> Yep. >> Okay. All right. So, take a vote. Hugh
>> Hugh Martin. I >> Mark >> Mark Schmidt. I >> John >> John Bell. I >> Phil. >> Phil Linberg. I >> Tim Gillespie. >> Tim Gillespie. I >> Deborah >> Deborah Chely. I >> Dale
>> Dale Weber. I >> Betty Betty Slate. I that is unanimous. So the next meeting we are going to have a meeting in February um at 6:30 and we are going to discuss the role of liaison
and we're going to discuss the outstanding projects uh to give a report on them. Some of you might need for the project managers to come in. If you are not happy with what's going on with your
project that hasn't been reported, then ask the project managers to come in and discuss. You have a list. I will send you out a list of the uh outstanding projects for now. Um and um for example,
I I've heard nothing about the um senior league. Nothing's uh happened with that. See my other data and a few others. So think about what projects that you are um responsible for and try to get in
touch with the um project managers if you have any questions. Um, anything else? >> I move we adjourn. >> Second. >> Second Morton.
>> Sutton. Hugh Martin. Okay. Hugh. >> Hugh Morton. I We want Don't want Tim to serve the desk. >> Thank you, >> Mark. >> Mark Schmidt. I >> John. >> John Bell. I >> Phil. >> Bill Weinberg. I >> Tim Gillespie.
>> Tim Gillespie. I >> Deborah >> Deborah Chely. I >> Dale >> Dale Weber. I >> Betty Slade. I That's unanimous. Thank you very much. Congratulations. Everybody.