We would like to do the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of America and to the republic for which it stands
under and justice for all. This meeting is being held remotely in accordance with the governor of Massachusetts MA March 28th, 2025 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GL chapter 30A section
20 allowing remote and hybrid meeting options for public bodies through June 20 30th 2027. This meeting is being recorded. I'd like to open the um regular meeting.
Uh the first item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of June 12th, 2025. Do I have any uh a motion or do I have a motion? So move. Second.
Please say your names. Martin, Dale Weber. Is there any discussion? I'll call a roll call vote. Hugh Morton. I Gale Dale Weber. I Deborah.
Deborah Chely. I Mark. Mark Schmid. I Tim Gillespie. Tim Gillespie. I John Bell. John Bell. I Tim Kaitton. He's on the phone.
Is he there? He was. I don't see him anymore. Something. Yeah, I don't see him. Uh, it passed. Uh, with Tim Kaitton not replying and Phil Glas being uh absent.
Betty. Yes, I'm sorry to interrupt. I I did see something and uh I think it should be corrected before we it's a minor point but if you look on item O
uh the affordable housing trust is the title and uh it's a pa page three on my printout. So it says in the middle of the paragraph, Tim Kaitton has volunteered to be
liaison for Howland Hall. Well, previous page that I was appointed leazison. Yeah. And you're not the liaison to the affordable housing trust?
No, but you are, aren't you? Yes, I am. Yeah. So, so I we we can go ahead and correct those. All right. Yeah. So, so I move that we uh uh accept these minutes as amended
and the amendments are that it hall and Betty Flade will be the liaison for the affordable housing drops. Okay. So, we need to Okay. Do I I have a motion. Do I have a second? Sorry,
whoever that was. Kim Kaitton, can I just point out I think the um the way it's written with the semicolons, there is a separation like Howland Hall dash Mark Schmidt semicolon
Bsentennial Park Tim Kaitton semicolon and affordable housing trust dash Betty Slade. So those are correct, aren't they? Yeah, this is a different
uh further on in the minutes item. Oh, okay. Sorry, I was looking I think yes, that's down there at the bottom. Okay. Okay, I need a second. Dale. Okay, I'll
take a roll call. Hugh. Hugh Morton. I Dale. Dale. I Deborah. Amber Shieli. I Mark Mark Schmid. I Tim Gillespie.
Tim Gillespie. I John Bell. John Bell. I Tim Kaitton. Tim Kaitton. I Good. Betty Slate. I That's unanimous. Thank you. I'm closing the um regular
meeting, the first portion of the regular meeting and opening the public hearing to discuss projects forwarded by CPC to the public hearing for recommendation to town meeting in 2026. So the public hearing here is basically
to discuss uh any suggestions by the public or by the um members of the CPC as to projects that uh the CPC would like to see pursued. Um we often don't
have anybody come to these meetings. We do this because it's required. I think the last one someone came in was John Bell years ago when he wanted to, you know, to do the project in the head of
Westport. Um, but I was wondering if any of you have been thinking about um areas that this the CPC should be looking into. Uh Betty Timothy Tim
um the I mean there's a project for recreation where we're trying to talk with the Westward Youth Athletic Group about pickle ball courts on their section of land. Um, that hasn't gone very far yet
because we're pretty busy with playgrounds, but that's something on a burner on our particular stove. Okay. I was wondering about affordable housing
trust. Uh we have not had uh any new well we've had two new units I guess with Habitat for Humanity but um they it doesn't seem to be moving. Um they've had they put out an RFP and didn't get a
response. They got one response but it wasn't viable. Um I was wondering if there's anything anybody has been thinking about that area. um what kind of what what we something we
should be thinking about in the future. We just keep add we keep adding 200,000 and then they continue with the housing office and so forth but getting uh projects on the SHI is not happening.
Tim they thinking seriously about uh the high school the old high school That doesn't seem to be from what I understand is not in the what's they're talking about at all.
I know that they they made a uh in the very early days they applied for that, but it would basically be turning the property over to another group uh a company that would develop it and people didn't want to give up the
high school. At a uh planning board meeting a few weeks ago, there was just maybe a month ago now discussion amongst our board on uh
on that topic. U because having seen the the current uh proposal for the high school, the reuse into a multi-use community, etc., etc. There was no mention of housing and we always on the
board we always talk about the need for affordable housing in this town. how people are look are in need of it. And uh it's it's a little baffling that nothing has happened. But uh we just saw
that that high school, the old high school was a potential for uh has the potential to be converted into affordable housing. Uh, but you need to find a developer who would do that and it would take the burden off the town
rather than the town having to come up with $72 million to convert the building into a a community center. Um, this would be this would be sort of a well it could be a long-term lease or lease and
sale and lease back. There are a number of different ways could be done. So, those are just some things that were batted around and I'm just saying that it is um you know it is on our radar and we're we're sort of
we're ready to look at any proposal that somebody would come forward with but until that happens we can't do much. I've discussed this with when I've attended the affordable housing trust meetings and asked them to get in touch with the planning board. Has that
happened? No. I mean, the planning board would be their best way of getting something like this done, but I think originally they would have to sell the property and then
the pro and they would sell it for affordable housing. Uh, and then some group uh company would come in and build affordable housing. That's what I understand. it wasn't that they would use this particular building.
Um, but that's one idea. John has something to say. Well, yeah, from from people I talked to, there's not a lot of strong support to lose all the fields up there. Uh, there's four baseball fields and a
couple of makeshift soccer fields in there and and that's what I hear about. We want to maintain and keep those fields. There aren't even with the fields on 177, there still are not enough fields uh for baseball and we know how much it cost to make new
fields because they wanted to do that the campgrounds. Well, an RFP could be put out to housing developers with the stipulation that the fields are to re be to remain
uh in use for the town and and any other portion of the building. buildings 155,000 square feet. It's three that's three and a half acres of floor space. If they wanted to say, well, we'd like the auditorium to be left for the town
use um things or the gymnasium as well, that could be put into it, and there's still plenty of uh area to be developed into the housing portion. So, you could do a combination of uses there.
This was one of the very as I said one of the very earliest proposals. Uh this has been going on for years and years and so the a committee was appointed and that committee has come up with recommendations and uh I don't know where it's going
from here. Has anybody I mean what? No. Anybody been following what the recommendations are? Tim Gillespie. I've attended one or two of the public meetings that they had and I've read the
reports that they've come up with and one of the big uh elements is uh senior council on aging space. That's one of the big things, keeping the gymnasium available for recreation
and then sort of miscellaneous stuff that including I think renting off portions for private use um for maybe even businesses I think but a lot of different stuff
some of which doesn't seem realistic but also to move the town buildings over there. The town offices over there. Yep. That's That's the other one.
We've we've told um we've told the affordable housing trust that um if they would move on this that we could we could be helpful. As I said, they did once and then they didn't follow up and now it's it's it seems to be off the
table for various reasons. Deborah, I guess the thing I remember about this plan was the recent consulting group that they brought in to look at the whole project and and even bring the lens back and look at other outbuildings in the town to try to create more of a
master plan. They looked at the high school and they thought the stretch code and I'm I'm not an architect, but this is just what I've been told. It's too expensive to try to make that particular building housing. So that they should look at that building for a mixed use,
certainly include the fields for its current their current use and then try to surplus the annex building for housing. And that is a much more reasonable size, which brought up the whole um concept you and I talked about, Betty, with protecting playgrounds that
had already been built with CPC money because if that other building becomes a surplus building for housing, what could happen to the playground there? So that sort of that conversation began. But I thought the whole consulting project was about really looking at the whole
potential of all these different buildings. The town hall building, keeping that the same, renovating it, making sure certain offices remain there because it's centrally located. Other offices could be brought to the high school. Senior center could be built
there. Gymnasium could be repurposed. They had this whole plan that was, I don't know, millions and millions of dollars. It would have to be approved by the town. But it was a very comprehensive plan. And I think the next step is for affordable housing to maybe go talk to them about where could they fit in
before this thing goes to some kind of a vote because they would have to bring it to the town. I think well it's request the last I've heard was $72 million right in tax money that would be needed. Money keeps going up.
Well is you keep waiting. It's going to keep going up. I mean, just everything gets more expensive. I don't know. Shouldn't affordable housing go and meet with this consultant and and get their put their chits on the table of what they would want to see here and how they could fit in so at
least they're part of the planning process. I've heard that there are issues uh with water and sewer septic too. Uh there isn't that it would for if it would housing if it would be housing. Um,
you said the annex has issues like that. The annex. No, the the new school. The old school. The old school. The old school. Yeah. I also heard there's water issues there. So, I don't know. I mean, the next question is, is there anything we can do to jumpstart this? I just don't know
what our role is here. I just think that the planning board because they have got it in their planning uh in their master plan and they talked about it. The planning board could take some initiative on this. Mark,
yeah. Uh, my screen's all is frozen. Is anybody else's? No, I'm the only one here. I know we do see it frozen. What? We can see you. Okay. Well, anyway, um,
well, yes. And I mean, I don't know. I think if the affordable housing trust would be to take the lead on on finding a developer, put out an RFP to developers and there are many of them
who are very experienced in converting old high schools, old school buildings into housing. It's been done in, you know, all around in Rhode Island and uh various places. So, it's not a It's not
an impossible or it's not a a rare occurrence. It there are people out there and yes, all of the things you you mentioned like the the sewer and the water, those are big issues. But uh that's why you know the town should not
expect if they enter into an agreement to sell the building not expect to get anything for it because of the costs of conversion. And uh but that's all right. It takes it off our hands and we get what we want which is housing and we can
retain as I said earlier things that we think are valuable to the town like the playing fields and the auditorium the gymnasium or incorporate the uh the uh of the senior house um what is it called
the uh on aging. Yeah. Council on aging. They could be they could have a corner of the building too because it's so large. So all of those things can happen. I don't know. I mean I'll talk to our
chairperson and see whether there is an interest in the planning board taking more of a proactive approach here. But uh I think the affordable housing would be also very uh be the key key ingredient here to
push this ahead. So what I Mark what I was thinking it was the committee has come up with recommendations they've looked into it and I get the next step would be to ask the the uh
town for the money. Okay. So I think they're that far. So there's a committee that's established to do that who's made who's making made recommendations. So it would be that committee that needs to be first approached.
That is these are all for the town does not have the money. It would have to be a you know a debt exclusion. It would and how well anyway that's really all I wanted to say. That's the huge issue. It's a huge
issue. But if we if we if is it too late? Are we too late to to do this? I mean, are do we because this is about the third time a committee has been formed and the this committee has
come up with recommendations and from what I understand they're moving ahead um with them. Well, I think what it's the long I I think they're called the long-term building committee or and they
may want to um present this these options at the town meeting, but I can tell you that uh as Su is pointing out, the town has no appetite to spend this money kind of money. I I don't think
so. There's the all he's thinking of it as like a secondary suggestion again it be down the road that you sell the property with an affordable housing restriction on it something like that I mean what we were trying to do is at the planning board we
were we were we had asked the chairperson of that long-term building committee to come to attend and uh he he did not so but the intention was to discuss with him and say, "Well, you know, what
you've come up with, you know, it's all fine, but uh you haven't uh thought about or you I'm sure they've thought, but you haven't um addressed housing, and housing is a real need here. And if it can be done in a manner that turns
the building over to a a third party and the town is not spending its own money, I think that's a possible avenue to to solve this problem. Hugh, I'll throw in my two cents worth. One of
the things to keep in mind is if you have I don't know how many units it would be low income housing but a lot of units which produce a lot of people and a lot of kids and that adds into the school population and the school issues
that we already have. So it's all about talk about units and this and that. the other number of people have that on their minds, I'm sure, when they're not terribly favorable inclined toward that approach.
Well, I guess that I would answer that the town is getting very old. The proportion of the elderly in town is growing very rapidly and without young people it it could die. So, I I that
argument I understand the argument. uh that increased need, but we also need young people in Westport and we also need housing for police and fire and school teachers and so forth. I've been surprised doesn't go to police
road regularly and a whole bunch of new houses have come up there. There's another project going on Sodom Road closer to um um 177. So there very amount of construction going on. This is market
rate, I'm sure, but it's housing. John, you cut yourself off. You muted yourself. There we go. I was just saying it doesn't it doesn't go to police and fire the housing.
You mean they don't qualify? They don't offer it to us. No. Well, you have to um you have to bid. It's a lottery. Yeah. And the predominant num the age it's elderly people who are at no it's
predominantly elderly people. If you look at it, we we've asked I've asked all those questions to the affordable housing trust. Um, we had talked about this a while ago and we had looked into well maybe talking about the town talking about what what
are the unforeseen costs of affordable housing that the more teachers, bigger schools, more police, more fire, the ambulance. So that's a lot of things that we we don't discuss, but it comes into effect with the more people in town.
Yeah. So when we all die off, John, you got to have young people. Well, I I go to a lot of the school functions. There are a lot of kids there. Anyway, that's not that that's another thing. So, I think that um
maybe uh if Mark could talk to the planning board and see if they could invite the chair of that committee. Who is it? Christopher Thrasher. Is he isn't he the chair? John, I mean, um, Mark
must have lost Mark. There we go. Uh, Betty. Yeah, I don't know. Some Mike, you know, they install Google or somebody installs Microsoft installs some new software and it's all haywire. So, I had to I lost communication, but I' I've got you on
the phone. Um, yeah, we invited them to that last meeting and he didn't appear. So, we can try again. Okay. And I and I'll attend the meeting of the Florida housing test and talk to them again. Yeah.
Um All right. Anything else? Any other I mean, historic preservation. I don't I mean, we we have a very few buildings that are owned, you know, that aren't private that are historic and
they're in pretty good shape. Sorry. Who is Tim Kaitton? Oh, Tim Kaitton. Yep. Yep. Betty, what about you know the possibility there is a there is some land and I uh for the at the housing
authority. Yeah. and on Route Six and there there is some talk about that and the director of housing authority um he's supposed to start looking into some of that as you well know but um we
haven't met in July and August and we're meeting next Wednesday so I can report back and see perhaps if that's um something some avenue we can look at too. Yeah. when we I met with them too. I was
there too, remember? And um saying that could be maybe four or five units. Of course, yeah, surprisingly such a a small number, but um it's worth it to to try it because the land is there and um
yeah, you don't have to buy land and other the activities could be, you know, incorporated into the existing correct Greenwood Terrace. So, yes, that'll be good. And continue to to meet
with Craig. Yeah. Neutral about that. Okay. So, we've had the recreation, maybe the pickle ball. Um we are going to have a project probably of the the um
playground at the Matt Cumber School um coming up and maybe something of this nature. The housing authority we have we have that um open space. I spoke with uh uh Ross Moran and he said there might
be something that's coming here u but he he didn't say what it was. So any other go ahead just to add to the yes uh the uh the land trust the Westport land trust is
very active and fortunately and they are um they actually have three projects that they're working on right now and I asked him about the possibility of CPC helping out but and certainly he would like it but he said we don't have
the time these these three property owners want want it to happen now and the next few months or so. So, um but but fortunately they're they're very active and they're they're preserving
many many acres in this town that to help keep it uh the way we all would like to see it. All right. So, we should move on perhaps um and
close. Oh, Deborah, sorry, Deborah. Yes, I just had to unmute myself. Um I have a question about the fact that Mark just mentioned that the trust can't um wait for monies to come through because CPC is is kind of a slow process. So I
get that the similar to the way that we bank monies for affordable housing trust and we grant monies to them without a project that's identified. Is there a way to do something similar for open
space so that we could bank grants to say this entity and they'd have some cash earmarked for open space and we could you know start building that each year like we do for affordable housing trust they have a I don't know how much they have now affordable housing trust
we get just did another grant for what 200,000 last year is there a concept that would allow us to do that for open space similar to housing affordable housing trust is a town trust, a town by a bylaw. They have a
structural relationship and CPA is able to do that. The uh the land trust is not it's it's a private organization and we can't advance monies to private organizations. So, right.
Yeah, that's that's a good idea. We could probably at one time give them a substantial grant, but it's it's always late. It takes time. It has to be sight specific. I assume it has to be for project that's already identified. Okay, got it. Thanks.
We have to have the um conservation restriction in place. So before we can give the money, we have to it's it's a lot more complicated in advance. So I think I'm going to close the um the
public hearing. Um so this is close of public hearing at 8:05 7:05 um and open the regular meeting. Um so the first item on the
agenda is the discussion of work of liaison for CPA projects. Um because of the complications of the Sanford school project, uh Deborah and I um have gotten together two or three
times uh to discuss um what liaison should do and we felt that that we have not given proper enough instructions to the liaison something written that they
could have as well as something they could give to the project managers. And in some cases uh for example recreation uh which is a town project. Tim is both the committee the commission and he is
also the project manager. So I think this kind of thing could be helpful. Uh that's a public project and it would have we'd have a um a separate um a public as you could see with I sit around a a separate listing for public
projects as a priv as a as opposed to private uh projects. Um I don't know if you've looked at it. I um I don't know if you have any questions uh but we will be trying to meet I think
with some of the private liaison the the leaison for the private projects Deborah and I um I might turn this completely over to Deborah she's so good at these things uh and meet with them and I just
listen and uh we will um just say what you need to do And there are exceptions that are going to come up. And when exceptions come up, you don't have to follow every single one of these um steps, but you can ask us and eventually
everybody will understand what the liaison needs to do. Um in the past, we've had uh projects where uh for example, the land trust, they know exactly what to do. WA knows, the historical society knows how to do. But
when you get a new project in uh they may not Yeah. Um and um or a new uh project manager. So we need for us to be educated on how to handle um projects so that we
make sure that they follow the rules that they know what the rules are. They follow the rules where they can ask ask for help that they submit their bills to liaison. The leaison is a very important part of this because you keep track the
leazison keeps track of the expenditures and then gives them to the chair to me to look at and I will approve them and then they go forward. This is the way that it should work. Um that's very
important so that too much money is not ex you know they aren't overcharging or charging for the wrong things. this this kind of thing. And we have grant agreements. We will we've sent the grant agreements to the private parties. Uh at
least I don't know if we sent them to uh the public projects. Um but are there any questions about um what a liaison does? Anything new? Eddie, I like the guidelines. I think
that would definitely help working with the project manager. Yes. To give them a hard copy and they know what their expectations are as well as we do. I agree. I agree. I think they're very good.
The also connected with this is for I've been reading the coalition website and um they talk about with town projects. So I've had a some
complications with one of the projects which I'm the man monitor with the town and I think it's due to misunderstanding again and um not knowing what a liaison really does. Uh although I would state
I'm the liaison they didn't get it you know how what that meant. So I was thinking we could also dous with town projects. So, for example, if we have a recreation commission project
um or uh the town hall project or an annex project, then we would have anou with the town. So, we know the town will follow the rules. They'll report, they won't overexpend, they'll do their RFPs,
all of this. We've just before assumed that town people know how to do that and do do it because we've had such good experience with the recreation commission basically um on this and with the annex because again the same person
Tim Gillespie was involved with it. Uh, so, um, I'm thinking of anou, Hugh, I was just going to say I think that's a good idea, especially we're going to have a new kind of administrator. Yes. I mean, Jim was familiar with all these
things. The new person may or may not be. So, even better to have an outline of how things are supposed to go. Okay. Okay. So, Deborah and I will work on that. Um, you have to tell me. Excuse me. What is
anou? A memorandum of Okay. Okay. Not a legal contract or No, no, I know what that is. It's just the abbreviation sometimes. Sorry. How many? Yeah. All right. All right. Yeah. Um, and there are of
course samples of it uh around the state. uh the comm the coalition is beginning to pick up on things that it never talked about before because it's you when it
began the CP CPA funding there was no experience with that law and as they've gotten experience they're realizing what CPC should be doing around the states to protect the project and to protect um
the CPC and the town. So, this is why these things we haven't really talked about before because they've just suddenly come up on the um uh in front of us and they hadn't been before. Um Deborah, did you have anything else to
say about this those two topics? Um, on the guidelines, I just want to point out we tried to make them simplified because it started to have too much paper and we didn't want to freak anybody out getting a 10-page guideline. So, we use links on
the public projects guideline because that's a little bit more complicated. So, we had, you know, they're very similar documents, the public and the private. Now, I think it might be useful to even have a definition of what is a public versus what is a private so
people understand why they're getting which guideline they're getting. Um, and then the links, if you go through and you click on the links, you can see there's a handy way to get, for example, prevailing wages. You can, it goes right to the Massachusetts labor
website. You click on Westport and you get all this information, but that it' be 25 pages what you get. So, we didn't want to put that in. So instead, we used hot links to give people that guideline as they go through the process. I mean, I I I hope it's it's helpful. I've never
been a liaison, so it' be interesting for me to be monitoring people who are liaons and telling them what to do, but I'm happy to shadow you, Betty, to make sure things are going well. They're kind of I mean, I think the guideline is pretty
it's pretty straightforward. So it we should have we should have success with giving people that. So I've revamped completely the CPC FA the F FAQ FAQ FAQ which is on the web page by the
way the new FAQ what's that frequently asked questions. Ah. Oh yeah. Okay. So when we, you know, having a new for us who post all the time or have to
have stuff on there, Maria can tell you having a new website is tough. You learn all kinds of new things. Things get screwed up, you know, and they go in the wrong place. So we've been working, you know, diligently to get everything under
control. I'm waiting for Deborah to respond to my write new write up of the um questions and answers. Uh and if it's okay, then I will post that. And that does that does address every one of
these topics. It addresses what is a private project, you know, what's different from public project, um when meetings are held, who are the members, just everything. So people if they ask you a question or if you have a question
you can just go to the web site to the our web page and you can pull that up. It we have pretty much everything you need there. We'll put on these these uh guidelines for liaison on there too. So if you ever have any questions or
somebody askked you, they can go look at the website or they can call for now me and then in the future Deborah or somebody else. Um the third thing we talked about Deborah was um the whether
or not to do an applica a new application. We looked at other towns and our application is okay. Um it gets the work done. Um, we again we have to guide people. Uh, I've received, for
example, this year an application. I send it back and told them what they needed to do. And and that's very helpful. If you get an application in and somebody says, "Well, these are the things before you really submit it. Be sure you answer these questions that you
go to the various commissions, you know, and and do the things that you need to do um, and about budgets. about contingency plans, all this kind of stuff. So, we at this point are leaving
the application alone. Uh we'll see how that goes in the future. Um okay, the next topic is we just talked about the protections for land where CPA funds are used for playgrounds and
recreation projects. Again, in my review of the uh coalition uh website, uh this popped up, the whole question of are you protecting the land upon which playgrounds are being
developed that CPA funds have paid for? I mean, couldn't the town just tear it down or sell it and people take it away and all of that? So, it's not a requirement of CPA that there be a restriction like there is if we if
CPA funds are used to buy the land, it has to have a restriction. But if we put a playground on it, it's not required, but it's highly advised. And one of the little differences between Yes, this is from the coalition.
Um, one of the the differences about uh playgrounds is that they have a a limited life. It's different from a conservation restriction. Tim, Tim, this is something I've been thinking about.
So, we pay we pay and with private donations, with CPA funding, we pay for a playground. It's going to last at least 25 years. So there should at least be a
restriction on that property that for 25 years it has to remain as a maintained playground um rather than into perpetuity. Uh that's one possibility. The other is possibility is saying it it could be uh
just it could be into perpetuity. We've already developed we've already given out uh our our town meeting has recommended funds for two projects uh the uh one uh up on Gford Road and then
the the bsentennial and then the annex. The annex is finished. The bsentennial is just beginning. And I contacted um Dana and Tim and asked them to think about this and to think about u what the recreation commission thinks about this.
And Tim has something to to um um say about this. I think he's going to do a little presentation. Well, I I went on the site that you led us to, Betty, which is the coalition website about outdoor recreation, and
um they have what's called an article 97 that requires that any land that uh any project in recreation that CPA money goes towards has to be restricted. There has to be a restriction. And
for something like Bsentennial Park, that would be fairly easy to define that space and a restriction on it. When you get to a piece of property that has a building on it, you're not allowed to put community preservation money onto a
recreation project if there's a building on that land. So, you have to square off those pieces of the land that has the recreation. on that. And on um for the town hall
annex, that would involve the playground and it also involves back which has the uh the stage and where we put the outdoor movies and all that concert. Someone's
inside. Has someone got a child in the room in their and their speaker on? Could you turn your speakers off? Can Maria mute them? Well, anyways, there's a The Recreation Commission has to think about this and
we're going to have to think about it with some help in terms of exactly how you do this stuff. I don't think we're going to be reinventing the wheel, but it could be that that uh the coalition has, you know, as Betty said, they're
coming out with real realizing things that they didn't realize before. And I think this is one of those things they didn't put any emphasis on and didn't focus on, but it's now becoming an issue. and we have to put some restrictions on the land that we've
already put recreation money into and any future projects that has to go hand inand with those future projects and I'm not sure exactly how we do it. Clearly, there has to be some legal help on that. Yes. Yes. But we could pay for that legal help
through our administrative money. Yes. Yes. Yes, we can. And uh if the school Mac Humber school comes up uh with the project that's also town property so they're all three town properties. Um
there is though the the uh argument I think it goes a little further. Can you um No, it may be the other way. Um I only grabbed two pages that I thought were significant.
Okay. Um, I mean, the other stuff they talked about were I don't I didn't think were relevant to anything in Westport. Well, I was just thinking that it says when considering it's it's determine if the property's dedicated
recreational use and there are few ways recreational lands can be identified. So the first one is the land is under control of the board of park commissioners or whatever board committee or department has care custody
and control of parks and recreation land that could be the board of selectmanum. It usually is. Yeah. So if it's under their control that's enough basically. But if you decide to sell the annex what happens then?
That's well that's exactly right but I'm speaking of in a normal case. So the annex would be because of the different parts to the annex. Um so what would you what go ahead I got I got Deborah to
have a comment. Go ahead De Gabra. Yeah just commenting if the annex was on the on the block for um changing its use. I mean, wouldn't you just either subdivide the uh playground piece and sell off
just the building without that playground so that the new owner would have to design whatever they design around that playground. So, if it's going to be housing, that playground just would still remain. I mean, wouldn't we just cross that bridge when
the annex came up for some kind of reuse because the town controls have to do that with an approval not required plan that it wouldn't pass zoning. I mean, it's clearly wouldn't be a big enough lot to develop and so it would have to be an ANR plan. Um, I
would think. Is that you think that's right, Mark? Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I mean it. So, uh, well, it dep I mean, I guess they could look for a zoning, you know, variance or something, but that that complicates it.
Yeah. But there's also the We've also developed the back Deborah, the back of the So there it leaves a very small area given parking need need for parking for the playgrounds. It just leaves a
very small area. This it is interesting. In that case, maybe we could have like a 25 year restriction on it. Well, maybe we don't sell the building. How about that as an idea?
I use the same building. Deborah, can't hear you. Sorry, you have to keep muting and unmuting. Um, so the other option is if there is a um surplusing the annex and there's all this other recreation recreational funding that's been spent,
why not require the new owner, whoever that might be, to mitigate by replacing those same facilities or paying the town to replace those facilities in another location. I mean, that just mitigation money. Is that something that could be
done to because you don't want to tie your hands completely if you want to have some flexibility on master planning later. So why not create something that gives you some rights to negotiate? I think that would mean it would never sell,
you know, from a purchaser standpoint. But I do think the restrictions preserve the status quo as it were. And if there's something that comes up 25 years or whatever down the road, then a negotiation at that point, I think, is
more likely to be successful than having a mandated major investment in nothing as it were from the purchasing standpoint. Tim, there are restrictions on that building already because we spent so much
community preservation money on that building. So, whoever buys it isn't going to be able to do a whole lot to changing its appearance. Um, and that's a challenge for someone that's trying to make money on a project.
Tim, actually, um, we put no restrictions on that building. Well, we should. Well, because it it again, oh, because it's the pounds in the very early years all the way, you
know, um these things weren't thought of and you there is nothing in CPA that says that uh a just because you spend money on a building that it has to remain that way unless there's a
restriction. So that's why this year we've put this restriction on the Bell School because that we had we could do and they accepted it and that's the way it worked. But for the various things we've
done at town hall and the annex and COA there are no restrictions. The only restriction that exists are they are three historic buildings and that the historical
commission can determine for one year they can't be torn down. That's only restrictions because it's town. It was the idea the town wouldn't do these things sort of that and and it that's what we
followed were the rules of the CPA. Um and that's across the street the state it's across the state and now it's being realized wow you know you've invested all this money in building and town buildings and they want to sell them.
So, however, I think within Westport for the town hall, there is the feeling that you do want to preserve that building and that you would ask the historical commission to weigh in on what can be
done to it. And because, as you said, most people think that's the case. It's just legally it isn't the case. So, but that's why we the the difference is the playground um we could put some sort of a limited
restriction on it there and then the one in the bsentennial we would have a permanent restriction and a permanent restriction also at the mumber school. Well, Betty, yes. I'm I'm sorry. I don't know how to raise
my hand in this using the phone but anyway um I think this is very interesting discussion. I think it's I think there are many sides to the issue and uh you know you have to remember that if you put restrictions on let's
say the annex that then you're you're you know you're uh restricting its future value and may there may be the day when the town wants to maximize the value of the d of that building by selling it just for some commercial use
or something you know so that There there are pros and cons to this this argument or this we're just not supposed to be giving money for that CPA funding for that purpose to maximize the value of the
property. It's to protect the historical integrity of the building. Well, but it may not have any historic really historical and I mean the day, you know, 50 years from now, people may just want to get rid of that building and uh and
and you'll have trouble selling it if there are these restrictions on it. So I that's I don't know how you can can be we've got to be keep in mind you know future
future uses of of of a building when you put a restriction on it. Well the restriction is that in the future that it will be you it would any change would go before the historical commission to preserve the integrity of
that building. Uh, and CPA funding is supposed to be for that. Um, I'm just telling you what the the the rules are. Um, anyway, I think that we should
Tim Gillespie maybe look into this whole issue and see what what the Bora selectman think. Yeah. Yeah. The whole thing is is gets more
complicated. I got to let my dog out. Anybody else have any? I was just going to say that I think Mark is right, but this these are special purpose funds. So that's part of the the background of the legislation
etc. requiring preservation as preservation is likely to decline to decrease the value of the property. But that's was the decision made up front in putting in those restrictions. But we're stuck, I
think, on it. The purpose really is to protect the building. It's um and and and maintain its historical integrity. I mean, if you look at the town hall was built in 1938.
It's, you know, it's what they call a relatively new building, but it's the town hall. you know, and the annex is an old high school. Um, you know, name for Earl, Milton Earl. It
has a lot of interest historically to people more than what it looks like. It's more what it is. So it probably especially internally could be developed into like
it'd be very small scale senior housing or housing but it's possible. Um and again you might be that that's again a cost thing that CPA could help with. So you could maintain the integrity of
the external part and also make you know uh affordable housing for seniors say in that building. I I think we should move on. My lasagna is burning. All righty.
Okay. The next item is the list of bills paid. Boy, this has been back and forth, hasn't it? I think this is the third iteration. Sorry for all that complication. I'm going to read the the um project and
the cost and if you want to hold say hold um if you don't have any holds in the end, we will approve the total amount. So, the first is a payment to Granite City Electric Supply for the Sanford School project FY24 or 494
uh $494.3. The second is FY25 cemetery website project expense paid to site industries for $3,937.50. The third is community preservation coalition dues which you've already approved. It was paid from
administrative funds 2875. The Bell School Historic Preservation Restriction. We have a contract with Eric Dre um and um he's a consultant. This is the the first half of the
project. Uh we're we've already uh submitted the um restriction to Mass Historic Commission. So except for their response, it's finished. Uh but there will be another payment to ERIC. Um the
next is and that's $1,710. The next is the recording of the four grant agreements for the FY26 private CPA projects paid to New Bedford Registry of Deeds from administrative funds for $420.
And the next is the public hearing announcement tonight and paid to the Westport shorelines for administrative funds for $61.50. The next is the clerical expenses for the period January 25 to August 25 to
Maria Branco, excellent CPC clerk from administrative funds for $1,181 for eight months. That's not bad, guys. So, do I have a motion? I'll make the motion we accept that. I'll second that.
Okay. Second. All right. Hugh. Um, there's a motion and a second. Uh, roll call. Uh, Hugh Morton. Morton. I. Dale. Dale Weber. I Deborah. Deborah Chi. I
Mark Mark Schmid. I Tim Gillespie. Tim Gillespie. I Don Bell. John Bell. I Tim Kaitton. He's muted.
Betty Slate I Tim, are you there? Are you muted? He's muted. Or others. Okay. How did you get in? No response from Tim Kaitton. Um that's
approved um unanimously those who responded. Thank you. And the next meeting is um October 9th at 2025. Um do I have a motion to adjourn?
So move. Okay. All in favor? I I thank you very much. We adjourned at 7:26.