Good evening everyone. This is the finance committee. Today is Tuesday, January 27th, 2026. It's 6:34 and I'd like to call the meeting to order with a pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag >> to the flag
>> of the United States of America. >> America and to the republic, >> one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Under Mass General Laws chapter 30A
section 20F, this meeting is being recorded. On March 28th, 2025, Governor Healey signed into law a bill which extends the temporary provisions pertaining to open meeting law to June 30th, 2027. Specifically, this further extension
allows public bodies to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of public body physically present at a meeting location and to provide adequate alternative access to remote meetings. This language does not make any substantive changes to opening law other than extending the expiration of the
temporary provisions regarding remote meetings for March 31st, 2025 to June 30th, 2027. Well, welcome everyone. Um, I'm gonna start with a roll call of the members that are with us. So, we have Al Ley.
>> Hi, Hugh Mort. Cindy Brown, Hugh Morton, Duncan Law, Zack Leru, Gary Carrero, >> Nancy Stan Cross, Christopher Thrasher, and myself, Karen Rouse. All right. Well, hi. Welcome everybody.
>> Good evening. >> And you, too. >> We have evening. We have we have a full house. Nothing else to do on so exciting. >> I I don't think anybody's out drinking margaritas on the >> I know. We should be in Las Vegas right now with a full house, right?
>> Oh man. Um so we actually have a short agenda tonight. Um the budget meetings we had scheduled was the is the beach committee, highway, and town accountant. So, we had a cancellation with the beach
committee. So, Sean asked to to reschedu and Nicole, our town accountant, is not available to be here either. So, she's asked to reschedule. So, we're going to postpone both of those um till a meeting very soon. So, we do have the highway
department that uh we will discuss tonight for the budget. And Gary, I think you were going to hit that. Not sure if Chris was I'm sure he couldn't come even if he wanted to. >> Right. So Chris isn't here and I'll um present on his behalf. You know, first
of all, I just want to, you know, uh heads hats off to uh the highway department for this last storm and we haven't had a storm this big obviously in a long time. Uh I think they did a a remarkable job with the side roads and and then uh assisting uh Route Six with their operations. Remember, it's a
obviously we have we don't have a large crew. You'll see that once we present, but I think they did a great job uh with maintaining this uh this storm. >> I do agree with that. Excellent job. >> Yes. No, totally agree. >> So, um Karen, I don't know if you have
the uh budget um documents, but I have it's what I sent you and also on the cap the capital. I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about that, too. I don't know if you can put that up on the screen. Karen, you're on mute. >> I don't even see her.
>> Yeah, she's There she is. >> Oh, >> I don't know where I'm going. Um, I can put it up for you, Gary. Um, you I think you just sent me the the budget, not anything capital related. I don't >> I have I have a capital document, so if you want me to I can do
>> Can you Can you Do you Can you share it? It's easier for It's easier if you could do that. >> Yeah. So, do you want to allow me to >> Gary? You do you need permission for that? Are you not allowed to >> I don't know. I don't even know where to
begin here. I mean, it's >> So, there's a little thing at the bottom. It says share screen. >> Share screen. >> It's to the on mine. to the left of the hand raise.
>> Okay, here we go. Turn on captions. Send a reaction. Okay, so let's see. >> So, you did send this and I put it in the Google Drive for everybody. So, um as soon as you sent it, I put it in there.
>> All right. I can I have the capital. So we can start with the capital first and then I go over the budget. >> So on the screen here you have you might have heard us talk a little bit about this last week um when we talked about the request that went in front of CIPC. Um I believe there was a generator that
was approved. Uh but they had also asked for as you see here a dump truck with a plow. And what this plow what this truck allows the uh the department to do is um hire someone that doesn't have the requirements. So they can go plow, they can go out and they don't need hoisting
light, they don't need all these hydraulic licenses that that are larger ton pickup would >> if you will. So they weren't approved for this. Um but I think as I mentioned I if you take a tour of the facility at town hall you're going to see that
there's a desperate need for equipment. Um and they're doing their own repairs. As I mentioned, trucks come in, uh, you know, they have a storm like they had this a couple of days ago, yesterday, and they're doing repairs on the spot when they can. So, that means a truck is
down. So, as you see here in the in the schedule, there's a replacement schedule. There's a replacement plan for that truck going forward to replace the older vehicles that are vintage 1970s, some 1980s, um, with a lot of miles. So,
what I had the highway department do this week was uh this storm was actually track the mileage so that we can get a good sense of what's going on with these vehicles throughout the town um and see where that where that um stands. But I would make the recommendation and I
don't know if we can do that here or if we can do it at town meeting that the highway department does get this truck uh as it's desperately needed. these, you know, the these are, as I mentioned, going out in the most um precarious of weather, stalled, um you know, anything that is going to go wrong with these
trucks is going to happen during a storm. So, um this is what the request is, $157,300. Uh I don't believe, Al, if you can correct me if I'm wrong about the mini split. I don't think they got the mini split. I think all they got was the generator,
>> right? And the generator is key to um allowing the fuel tanks to run. If the power was to go out, no one in town could get fuel. That means police, fire, uh highway, they would be down. So that that generate needed to be replaced. And
I'm, you know, I'm happy that CIPC um at least allowed that. But I think that we should also advocate for the truck. Uh >> can you make this a little bigger? Um >> yeah, >> there we go. >> Okay. >> Yeah.
>> Thanks. >> I exam. So um the you know this is where this is where it stands right now. >> So were the other two Gary approved as part of the capital improvement committee or no? >> No. >> So the >> only only the generator
>> only the generator. But there was a lot of discussion of the truck and the uh uh the no need, if you will, to to have somebody with a CDL license. And it was
right on the edge. And I will say, and that from my opinion, we really do need to do that. And you know, we we we haven't had a storm like this in what, five years. pick a number out of the air. Pardon me. And pardon
me. It's easy to push aside other issues or whatever, but these storms do happen. And you know, when I when I look at Facebook or some of the others, and there weren't many, I I I I have to admit it about what about plowing out
ABC D. Well, we're down to when Russ Hart was was uh highway surveyor. We had new equipment and we had 12 to 14 people. Now look at what we've got 40
years later with probably 30% more roads in this town uh versus what we had. So, you know, I think this is uh this is something that I would recommend uh as a finance committee member, not
CIPC. They voted on it. I voted on it that that we reconsider to Gary's point. >> I mean, to keep and also to keep in mind, I think Al makes a good point. Um we've got lesser vehicles on the road. The the less vehicles we have on the road, the more mileage is now accumulating on those vehicles, >> right?
>> Less useful life those vehicles have. So spreading that out amongst another vehicle, um you know, you go into the facility at at Town Hall, the the highway facility, and you look at a photo on the wall of 25 years ago, uh there were more there were more people
and more equipment. Um so, you know, you're right, 30% more roads, more development, and we've gone the other way. So, I mean, this isn't the cure all, but I think it at least helps the department. >> At least helps, right, Gary? I would agree with you. So, can you both remind
me, and I know last last year's capital improvement, there was a a piece of equipment of the highway department that just didn't make the cut. It was very much needed, very much recognized, and
it didn't make the cut. >> I I think Karen, that was a brush. That was one of those They did get it. I believe they got it. I'm not sure how it was paid for, to be honest. It was one of those. You see it on the side of the road. Clearing the brush with the arm. >> Okay. >> So, >> this is a different This is not the same.
>> Totally. Totally different. >> Gotcha. All right. Thank you for clarifying that. >> If I Yeah, if I go ahead. >> A quick question, Gary. Do you know um how many operators they um >> Yes, >> they hire out that they hire out for
storms. >> Okay. So, I um What did Chris say on that? I believe they have 10 10 operators including including now keep in mind Chris also goes out and plow uh they have what they have one uh
mechanic uh equipment operator one foreman uh one the administrative assistant doesn't four four um uh special equipment operators. So you've got you've got the highway surveyor himself the department head going out in
every storm. you've got the crew going out on top of the uh contracts that we have and I think he had said there's like maybe 10 that are out there right now uh plowing. So, will this eliminate one of those or two of those? Maybe. Um
but, you know, there's still probably going to be a need for the for those subcontractors to go out there and plow. >> Oh, sure. Sure. I mean, I'm not I'm not suggesting that one would substitute for the other. I was just curious how many additional pieces of equipment they hire. uh for a storm like this with
another one possibly coming. >> Yeah. I mean, 260 mi of roadway, 64 65 square miles. Uh the town is is big. I mean, as I mentioned, you could be all the way up to the tip of Fall River and all the way down at the point. >> Yeah. >> A lot of miles. And And keep in mind,
they're not going and these I'm I'm not suggesting that these this equipment is only used for storms. This equipment is used 365 in the summer, spring when they're doing work on the sides of the roads. So, um, you you've got to remember that when they're plowing, they're not just going down the road
once. They're going down two, three, four times and then they're going to get back in salt. >> So, there's a when we get when you get the mileage reports from these trucks, I think you're going to be surprised at how many miles are put on just in one storm. >> Hundreds.
So, does anybody have any other questions on the capital? >> Well, I do have a question on this. Um, and it's more for for Al. So on the capital improvement memo that was done this year where the capital improvement recommended its list, there was another
paragraph after that said if there's more fund funding, we would like to recommend something of the highway. Is this the piece of equipment that was referenced in that memo? >> That that would that would be correct.
Excuse me. and and uh uh you know I I I would simply say that that what we need to consider as a finance committee as a CIPC I spoke to Dick last week on a variety of issues. We had a really good um productive
meeting that we we need to upload in my opinion uh things like this. We need to upload the ability for for our uh physical
departments. And I'm using that word um not loosely, but I mean these guys are out on the road all the time for a variety of reasons as Gary said, whether it's potholes, whether it is tree cutting, whether it is is snow plowing
um to be able to do that. So yeah, the answer is yes. We need to find some way in in in my opinion, this is mine only, to be able to fund the necessary equipment to support
these guys and women that are that are doing the job every single day. And and uh so my long answer to your short question, Karen, is yes. >> Thank you. Just wanted to make sure that
we were talking. Well, it wasn't a another piece of of one of the same. So, thank you. >> Yeah. I think the other point too, Karen, is um you know, they they're the ones out there in a storm clearing the roads for public safety. They're the ones out there. They're the first first line of defense, if you will, uh in a
storm. They want they need to make sure that roads are cleared for police, fire, ambulances. So, I think not having that equipment available to them um is is a is kind of a risk, I guess, to the town, if you will. uh and um something we have to take into
consideration. >> I agree with everything that's being said and the question always comes back to where's the money come from and the next question I would say I don't take this very seriously but the press suggested that the governor is thinking
about adding something more to uh money for cities and towns. We all know that's a suggestion that goes to the House, Senate, and so forth. And what comes out is a hamburger approach. However, it
might be a little higher than originally being estimated if that means anything. >> Uh you I can answer that question. We met with the um MMA. We had a conference in Boston just and Chris can chime in on this. Um the funding for her round, her first round, the budget, obviously, you
know, goes to her. Senate Ways and Means has still got the process uh is almost flat from last year, >> which is what I expected. Yeah. >> It's peanuts. >> Yeah. You don't believe the press and you don't believe the governor, but there's always a chance there's something in there. >> Yeah. I would say the most we're
probably going to see a one and a half% increase. Chris can chime in. I don't know what what it is for Westport, but I know, >> you know. >> Yeah, I know. Uh just looking at Dartmouth's numbers, Gary, I guess compared to Westport, we're a little better off, but uh it's still I'll call it very modest uh very modest
in terms of an increase. You know, we budget very conservatively, you know, with the idea it might be flatter than it has been the last couple of years. Um, you know, but I think, you know, this will kind of get into the, you know,
policy discussion as to when we look at the operational budget and we put out the next draft of it. um you know if there are some needs that have been identified on the operational side versus this which is more on the capital side um you know at the end of the day
this would flow to free cash. So, you know, for future fiscal years or budget discussions, you know, this would obviously be up there, but um yeah, I mean, I think it kind of was said, you know, I know that there's a limited amount of dollars for capital
requests like this and I know the recommendation coming out of the capital committee was this was just outside that window, but um you know, I think it is important going forward that you know, we talk to the departments and see what's the real impact of not funding this in a given fiscal year. Um, you
know, to Gary's point. So, um, duly noted on all the comments said so far. >> Thanks, Chris. And to answer your your my suggestion, Gary, would be we'll we'll put this on the list just as Chris said, we put this on the list of needs
that are being identified through the whole process. and then as we get get closer to a budget roll up and see the other warrant articles, we'll see what available free cash there is. Um, and then we can decide to make some
decisions once we have all the pieces together. >> That'd be the the suggestion. So, I have a and if you guys have noticed in the Google Drive, >> I've been keeping an ongoing list of items that come up from the budgets that
we've had. So, um I'll add this to the list and so then then when we're prepared, we've got all the things that have come up in all the meetings that u members have raised. So, >> all right. Good. >> Great. Thank you. >> It's a good idea. >> So, so Karen, I'm I'm sorry. I I'll just
jump in quickly. One of the things that that uh Gary said triggered my thought that the highway department, funny enough, needs to almost in in in quote unquote emergencies, whether it's
hurricanes or uh uh highway uh you know, snowstorms or whatnot, is the fact that it's a trigger effect. that it affects the uh fire department, it affects ambulances, it affects the police department. So, it it it's not just an
isolated incident where somebody is fixing a pothole on XYZ drive. I mean, it it really needs to be um higher at the top of the list. The other the other thing I I will say and of course I've said this many times at different forums
and I will won't elaborate but I wouldn't I I wouldn't expect any money from the state or the feds or the uh state legislature. They always screw a town.
>> Mhm. And I don't even need um you know or or or I'm not I'm not uh you know fishing for uh comment. It's just that we're on our own. And at some damn point, this town has got to come to the realization that we need to have some
kind of override or something that is at least uh supplemental budget uh and and not worry about what the 4.4% 4% that Hugh, you know, that I read in the Boston Globe and all the other stuff cuz
guess what? Gary's right. It ain't coming to us. It's not coming to us. And that goes from Healey down to Rodri's down to anybody else. It ain't happening. And I guess you guys can't say it, but I can
because I'm not an elected official. I'll leave it at that. None of us are. >> All right. Thank you, Gary. Do you want to show the >> Let me see if we can do this. Close this. >> This one might be hard to see on the
screen because there's so many columns to it. >> Yeah. >> And it's a PDF, so you can't hide the columns. >> Uh, actually, I converted it to Excel. So, >> oh, so if you that would be great because >> uh let me see if I can let me see if I can really do this. I'm not sure.
Let me see. >> It's in the Google Drive for everybody. So, if it's easy, you can access it there. >> Oh, right. >> Can you see that? Oh, yeah. It goes back to fiscal 13. Let me let me get rid of some of these. >> Right. If you can hide some columns, that'd be great. >> Let's say until 24, I guess we'll look
at. Yeah, that's great. Thanks, Gary. >> Perfect. >> Okay. Um, let's see. Should we do >> this? >> It's very cool. >> Can everybody see that or >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> That's great, Gary. >> Yep. Thanks, Gary. >> Uh, mainly, uh, so I'll start off again with with the staff. Um it's uh you know one highway surveyor obviously department head uh one mechanic full-time, one working foreman full-time, one administrative clerk
full-time who we just hired um and uh four special uh equipment operators and one seasonal uh employee. So there's a total of eight um full-time employees with the department. Um you'll see here the first line obviously the first half
of this is is salaries u mostly contractual. Um we also have Chris maybe can speak a little bit on this. The town engineer still in this budget. I'm not sure if that's going to get moved eventually. Uh but um and then your
items such as overtime um deer stipens. They get they get a stipen if they pick up um deer. Um incentives longevity. some of the employees have been there quite some time. Sick leave and vacation buyouts and then uh if they're working police
details. So, um I don't know if Chris wants to touch a little bit on the engineering position if that's going to stay in this budget or I wasn't too sure. >> Yeah, I'll touch base on that. So, um you know, the board did have a policy
discussion earlier this month with regards to the position. uh as it's currently drafted uh I do not believe that that is going to be moving forward as anticipated or previously anticipated. Um you know at this point the board is discussing reallocating
those dollars uh to some other professional staffing needs within the town. One of them being um you know communications and outreach um you know to offer assistance to uh all of our different departments. But um you know
with that the final job description the final scope of work is still to be determined. I know um you know one of my tasks coming in is to just evaluate the need and see you know if we are adding a full-time employee that uh you know
we're making sure that we get the most value with whatever that job scope and job assignment ultimately is. So, uh, in the upcoming drafts, um, you know, I I would expect to probably move these dollars to other areas within the budget, um, and then, you know,
obviously open up for further discussion and commentary with the board just to make sure that there was some consensus on that approach. But, um, that's that's really the update there. >> Um, Chris, not to have a long long discussion about this because it's not
an agenda item. I will just uh remind uh you and the board u that if there is a new position created it has to go before the job description has to go before the personnel board and it should go before town meeting. So
>> kind of time is of the time is of the essence to make sure that that article gets drafted and approved prior to town meeting. >> Yes. And actually that's um maybe a little bit of a good note. So, one of the things, um, you know, I guess I'll
give a little bit of a preview that I am, uh, going to put forward as a recommendation, uh, is an amendment to the personnel bylaw, um, to offer the town a little bit more flexibility with regards to, um,
you know, the the adjustment to the personnel policies. Um I you know I think right now the challenges especially for me coming in um it does not really offer me a lot of time to evaluate the conditions on the ground. Um seeing how we only have the one town
annual town meeting in May and I know that obviously uh this is an important role to fill and so I would hate to wait 18 months to see movement on that. So >> right >> um if there is some flexibility that you know we can offer the town that would
provide um you know the board a little bit more time to really deliberate on this and make sure with whatever job description put forward it you know it is building consensus and you know we're doing right by the town and you know that's going to be my recommendation but
I should hopefully have a little more information. And I know uh the select board meeting got cancelled yesterday. So um you know the first draft of the warrant or the list of articles is going to be going before the board on the 9th. >> Okay. So this this will be part of that
discussion, >> right? I just wanted to make sure that you understood the process which I'm sure that you did but just wanted to put it out there. Okay. Thank you. >> I appreciate Cindy. Thanks. >> Thanks. So Gary, I have a question on the on the
>> I think I think Al has a question. Gary's gonna say >> I'm sorry. Go ahead, Al. >> That's quite all right. And and I'm using pardon me the u the department head salary uh Chris as a uh you know a
a tea off if you will to all the other department heads. If we were, if Chris decided to leave tomorrow morning, what would it cost us to get a new uh department head?
>> Yeah. I mean, if that's a rhetorical question, but I think from a it is >> oper Yeah. So, I would say from an operational standpoint, I think anytime that a contract is up or is up for renegotiation or there's a vacancy in the role, um, you know, it's upon the
town to make sure that we're looking at the market that we can recruit. You know, I think part of that is going to be looking at the class and comp study that was done, you know, back in 24. obviously updating those numbers but you know using that as
a good baseline so that we're um you know able to retract and retain you know with that being said in addition to that you know I think um you know something Gary knows a lot about is um the idea of succession planning so ultimately
long-term just looking at the organizational structure within these departments and you know you know I don't hope for vacancies, but I do hope people go on vacation sometimes. And so, um, you know, if someone's out of the office, making sure that there's someone
else in the building that can do the function. So, you know, the salary lines absolutely, you know, worth looking at to make sure that um, you we're compensating people where we need to. So, >> well, see that that that that's where I'm going
with that. And I should have have been more specific. >> Yeah. If if we need to, and I'm just picking a number out of the air, okay? So, don't don't hold me to the number, but if we need to be uh compensating people at the highway department head
for 110, 115, pick a number, why the heck aren't we paying people at that point right now? >> It drives me crazy all the time. We go through this every time somebody leaves. >> Every department, Cindy, I'm not I'm
just using it. It happened with the town administrator. It's happened with many other positions. And >> I mean, who's going to advocate more for a position? You know, it's difficult for that department head to advocate for a
20% increase, which is what we've seen pretty much across the board that anytime someone leaves that we're short about 15 20 25%. And it's hard for that department head when every everyone's budgets are very tight to stand up and
say my department, you know, as a department head, I should be paid XYZ. And that's what happens. I mean, it's unfortunate. Go ahead, Chris. I didn't mean to interrupt. >> Uh, no. And, you know, I'll just offer this antidote. I think that when you're
looking at um you know if you were a long-standing employee and you've been in a role for quite a long time you know obviously um you know when you look at cost living you look at the market you know the market fluctuates with regards to you
know what is you know I I'll call it the going rate you know I think that as we look at contracts as individual contracts come up as we look at you know again you know what you know can the account forward. When we look at just internal equity, what are we paying
other department heads? Um, you know, I think all that goes into kind of the overall philosophy of the town. You know, I know that the town with the recent plan approval, you know, they adopted a philosophy, you know, a compensation philosophy. And so really, you know, as we go forward, our job is
to really look at that and make sure that um, you know, we're providing that recommendation. at the end of the day uh you know this is you know these contracts are really under the discretion of the board and so um I really won't go too much into policy
decision but I'll just go into the you know philosophy of the town you know on paper and then you know our job is to just you know put that forward so >> all right thank you thank you
>> um so Gary I had a question. So, of the of the positions that you that are in the budget that you described, are there are they all filled positions or are they still open and not filled? Because I know for many years there's been
positions in the budget with the intent to fill them and for whatever reasons they hadn't been filled. And so, are they so are there open positions or or or are there people in every position at this point?
Um, well, he's he's saying that he has total he has a total of four full-time employees. And I know that we talked about this in the past that I think it was last year or the prior year before that. Uh, they were looking they had an issue with I I guess the foreman, they were looking to hire a foreman. They
couldn't find one. But as far as I know, I think that every one of his positions are full. I can I can reach out to Chris and see if there's any vacancies. I'm not sure if Chris knows if there's any vacancies, but um I'm not aware of that there are any vacancies. Now, having said that though, um would he would he
like another position? Absolutely. I mean, if we're going to be putting a truck on, you know, we'll have it we'll have the we have the equipment, but we don't have that that complement. So, is if you looked at other communities the size of Westport, are they operating with eight full-time people, including
the highways the the highway department head? And is that highway department head out there also plowing, bulldozing, you know, cutting grass, which ours are. I think that if you were to do a comparison to other communities, you're going to see that the compliment is very low here in Westport. And so, which
means we're paying more in overtime. The risk of someone getting hurt is there, so on and so forth. There's other there's other things that need to be looked at. You know, it's not just putting a person on and giving them a truck and saying, "Oh, well, we've met the we've met the um compliment."
>> Chris, do has Has has Chris Chris has Chris had the conversation with you about um the need for another position? So, I think that there's kind of been this um I'll call it an ongoing challenge. And I think, you know,
there's definitely additional discussions needed with regards to um you know, the long-term investment, you know, that that may be needed within the department. um you know I have not had the opportunity to go to their facility yet and do a tour which I really like to
be able to do um to get some additional context but you know I'll just for now I'll just speak to kind of just the vacancies. So I believe you know I may be mistaken but within the budget itself I know that Jim had uh removed you know
and that's kind of where you see the variance in the FY27 um non-clerical full timeline is I believe he removed one of those vacancies. So um it was an open position so basically he just didn't fund a
vacant role. Now my understanding is I believe there's still two um you know vacancies that they're looking to fill. Now the challenge that I think that they're facing is
um just how competitive that those roles are. Um, you know, again, I I I don't hate to bring up Dartmouth, but you know, um, you know, we went through something very similar where, uh, we had
to go work with our unions to, um, try to make that or change the job description, change, um, you know, the classifications just so that we could get people in the door. But even then, you know, it it still took several months after the fact to get those
filled. So, um, obviously the the conditions here differ slightly, but it it's still something where, you know, if you have a CDL, you know, you're in demand in a lot of different communities. So,
>> yeah. And also keep in mind, that's a good point, Chris, we went through this uh together here. Um, you know, we're competing with the state. So, you know, we're paying $50 an hour, the state's paying 100 plus. So, you know, people they'll come to the local level, get all their training, they'll get all this,
all their licenses paid for, then they go and work for the state and make double the amount of money. So, it's hard to remain competitive. >> Very hard. >> Um I I just uh I got some clarification from Chris uh the highway survey. He
said he has one position that he's going to fill with um someone that he used in a snow in a snowstorm. So he has no more open positions, but um so they really there's no Yeah, there's no there's the compliment you see there,
Karen, is what they have. And I think Chris is accurate. They probably cut the position just to try to balance the budget. So there was a probably a position in there to begin with, but now it's been it's been >> I I think that was reflected in the last two years turnbacks, you know, that that
department had significant turnbacks for for two years because those positions remain remained unfilled. So, I think that was the approach that uh Jim had taken that, you know, there's only so many years that they're going to continue to fund a position that can't
be filled um and move on to using those dollars um elsewhere. But, okay, >> great. Thank you. >> Uh you Morton has his hand up. >> Go ahead.
>> Oh, I had earlier. I'm just going to say I think we've discussed it thoroughly, but unless somebody's got an extra pile of money lying around, we all know the problem and that's the problem. So, is there something else we can focus on now?
>> Okay, thanks you. Gary, do you want to keep going down on the >> That was pretty much those are the salary that's the salary piece of his budget. So on the um expense side, it's pretty m it's really small increases. Uh you're going to see equipment repairs
gone up obviously because you know pots are just that much more because of inflation uh inflationary uh pressures on the budget. Uh so that was increased uh by a few thousand. Um and as I mentioned most of the repairs that are done they're doing themselves on site.
So these these vehicles are not going out. They're not going to u unless they cannot do it they absolutely do it on site. Um, so other than that, uh, everything else has been pretty much, uh, level funded. Gas and oilies kind of try to keep keep the same. Um, and, um,
that's pretty much it for the larger increases on the expense side. >> All right. Um, Al, you've got your hand up. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just a comment, Karen. Pardon me, Hugh. I agree with you when it comes to the pot of gold that never
seems to uh hit at the end of the rainbow. Having said that, I do think that it is important, not for today necessarily, but but it is important for us as a finance committee to send a
message to the town and the select board to say this is what's really going on. I mean, it it it really breaks my heart to to to see people that are um you know,
not uh compensated uh in in comparison in in all not in all cases, but in but in some. and people going on wherever it's Facebook or whatever the hell it is, it doesn't really matter about what about the roads, what about this that
and the other. When the highway department is stretched beyond its its its limits, fire stretched beyond its limits. Uh there there was a question last week
about uh uh you know in in in this committee meeting about uh you know abatements and and and whatnot. They're stretched beyond their limits as we all know. And I it it it just sickens me it
that we don't have this conversation. All we end up doing here finance I mean finance uh select board and whatnot about how we are can juggle fewer and fewer and fewer dollars without trying
to figure out how the heck to make it the ship right so I I just >> well the problem is we don't have control of the levers of of revenue we're the creature of the state the state wishes to abandon this more or
less. We can be very happy about it, think it's unjust, etc. All which is true, but absent taking over the legislature and having a new approach to things, we're stuck. And we have tried, we had a great length, what was, two or three years ago, we tried for an
override, which sank without a trace. And that's the only mechanism really a town has to increase the revenues is an override which so far gets nowhere. So it's fine to complain about things we
don't have and should have and like to have but that really doesn't get us anywhere. Nobody's surprised. And also part of the problem which is sort of reverse English if you will. The highway department did a perfect job in this
last storm. The people in general in the town do a terrific job. They're stretched thin. It shouldn't be that way, but because everything works very well, but people who are not paying a lot of attention don't see the problem.
>> There we are. >> All right. So, so, so I'll I'll I'll agree to disagree a little bit with that. And there were people that that disagreed with that. But having said that, when it comes to the state and uh
which trickles down to our Senate uh you know what's Mike's title? I I don't even know what what Mike's title is. Where >> he's chair he's chair of the ways and means committee. >> Ways and means. Thank you, Cindy. Why
the hell doesn't somebody start looking at the state as individual towns and fund them properly? We haven't been funded properly for 20 plus years because we're a one party state and the
individual reps for an answer of the governor or to the organization of the party and we are not one of their priorities. we were not a priority at all >> and we just get to pick up the pieces.
>> It drives me crazy. >> I agree with you on all fronts, but >> when I and when I when I see >> Yeah. And when I see a feed on Facebook delivering for the for the district, where the hell is the delivering for the
district on basic services? >> We really shouldn't be talking about this. >> No, we should not be online. an agenda item and we're supposed to be talking about the highway department. >> You're absolutely correct and I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to pull back,
but um I made my point. >> Karen, you're on mute. >> Thanks. Um thanks Cindy. And and officially we we the fiscal 27 budget is on the agenda. So you know this is elements of it. >> Stick with it, right?
>> Yeah. But but but we are trying to focus right now on the highway department and then um move on from there. But very soon the all these comments come come into play. Um Gary, anything else on the highway? >> No, I I you know I just say that you
know again it's an open invitation to go down there, see what they do, see what equipment they have, see what they're working with. Um but I think that a lot of this is as we spoke about before especially on the capital is about communication and uh you have in my opinion you have two types of capital.
You have human capital and you've got >> right >> you've got the equipment and one can know one cannot be without the other. You know you you've got to you've got to be able to support the the equipment along with the folks that that run that equipment. So um I think communication is a big piece of this. Uh the public
only sees what they want to see or what they want to hear. Uh but the other part of this is what doesn't get funded and we think we talked about that and touched about that what you know if you put that out there you know well we'll keep on pushing this equipment down the road maybe maybe somebody will say okay
yeah something needs to be done at some critical point but if they don't see the entire equation then they're only getting one piece of the puzzle. So that is it from for the highway. Um again uh hats off to them for what they do. >> Great. >> Perfect. Thank Thank you for
representing uh Crest. So, I'm sure he's plowing somewhere tonight or sleeping or doing something >> having a warm cup of tea or something good. >> Yeah, they have a they have they they do a great job. They really do. >> Um >> All right.
>> All right. So, we'll move on. So, that's the only department budget we have for tonight. again. Um the only other town budget, so we haven't uh the town accountant got postponed and then we have the school budget next week, but we've been through all of the other town
departments at this point. Um so I just want to since we do have a full committee tonight, I think it's helpful. I know some of us can't make all the meetings and I want to make sure that everyone's been if you've missed a meeting that you're trying to catch up
on the video and watching watching the meeting so that you're as familiar with the departments that you weren't present with that you're up to date on. Um, and if if you've noticed in the Google Drive, as I mentioned before, I've been
putting together a summary of of when we have comments of budget issues with the department that I'm making note of it. So, um, I'd really like to know if if anyone has any other comments that hasn't been brought forth in the meeting
on on that. So, as we work together with the select board to give our comments and recommendations, I think it's helpful that we uh know where we stand. So, um again, I've compiled it based on those that have attended the meeting. So, if somebody hasn't been here or
after the meeting had a comment or a thought, um it'd be helpful to know what those thoughts are so we can discuss it as a committee so we can make sure we're addressing that. So, if anybody has anything else, it'd be helpful to hear
any other concerns that have been raised or haven't been raised. >> Uh, Karen, have we heard back from Diamond? >> They're scheduled to come in in two weeks, I think. >> Okay. >> No, three weeks. The fourth. The 24th.
>> Okay. Well, Chris, what I'll do is I'll um after I'll make some notes from tonight's meeting, which you were here, and then I'll send you a copy just so you can is our running tally of uh all comments that have been raised by the finance committee. Um
>> I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Sure. >> All right. Um, the next item on the agenda was really a fiscal 27 budget update or warrant article updates, but I think Cress you already mentioned since
the select board meeting um was cancelled yesterday the there may be not much new news to share at this point. >> No. Um just you know to reiterate you know we got the numbers or the first the governor's budget um you know over the
weekend very modest increases for the town. Uh it does give us a little bit um uh more revenue I guess from both on the town and school side. So you know we'll be updating the budget accordingly. Um,
you know, I think with the additional revenue estimates, you know, there are a couple things that we're going to go do another pass through the budget, make sure, you know, if there was things that we had to take off or if there's late additions that we make those updates with the next draft. Um,
and then that will be uh hopefully acted on on the 9th so that it can uh get over to the finance committee for full deliberation. But um definitely with regards to um you know your feedback, you know, I'll definitely uh look to get
that incorporated into whatever budget we put forward. Um with regards to the warrant articles, so the deadline to submit uh or let us know if you had a planned article for town meeting was yesterday. Um I got a couple frantic
phone calls this morning, but you know, we were open. Um, but, uh, everything is pretty straightforward. Uh, if I pull up my email really quick, I can just kind of give you a flavor for some of the things that we'll be um, you know, going
over at the board level. So, um, bylaw, you know, there's a question with regards to the tree warden um, and just formalizing that in our general bylaws. Um, as I mentioned, a couple of changes to the personnel bylaw um that will be
deliberated on. Um, there is an article with regards to some training for both police and fire emergency management that's going to be put forward. Uh, a couple of zoning amendments uh that are still in the public hearing process from
the planning board. So, should have the final information on that in a couple weeks. Um, and then just some updates to some revolving accounts. Um, there's a couple others, but I don't have them right in front of me tonight, but just a
flavor for some of the things that maybe don't come across every day on the warrant. >> Okay, >> great. That's helpful. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Um, question. Christopher, you're you're here with us, right? Christopher Thrasher too. There's a lot of Chrises
and Christopher here. Um, I think so. We have our school presentation for next week and I think I had I had asked you via email and you did reply, but I don't remember the exact date that the school was going to try to get us the budget
numbers in advance of the meeting so we can have a chance to review things. Is there a date where we can anticipate that's coming? >> Madam Chair, I will definitely have to check on that. I I do know that the antic that the the plan was to get it this week. Uh not sure, you know, having
not had anybody in today and yesterday, I might have delayed it slightly, but uh nonetheless, I I do expect it to be in the folder uh before the end of the week. >> Okay, that'd be great. Thank you. Thank you, Christopher. Um Duncan, go ahead. Yeah, I as you may remember Karen and I
met with Evan u this past week and uh you know it's a free cash discussion again based on the budget but if the free cash numbers come in um and we allocate the same roughly the same number to the school committee um we'll
we'll we'll be very very close but um you know he had he had pretty much final numbers for me and so you know That's that's where that stands. >> And to cl Yeah. To clarify, Madam Chair, so that we we have numbers that that were approved by the uh by the pole
school committee. Um what what is not complete or at least was not complete on on Friday was just a full presentation to the the spin copy. >> Okay. And can someone share what the budget that was approved? What number?
Does someone have that number? If you'll give me a brief moment, I can certainly look it up. >> I sure will. No worries. Um, so while we're talking about the school presentation for next week, we had um discussed having it in
person with a hybrid option. Um, I'm just want to just double check with everyone because there's a potentially another very big storm that's going to be hitting us sometime over the weekend and it could be another big one. And so,
just my question is if we post that we're going to have an in-person meeting and then we have a storm where things are closed, then we won't be able to have a meeting at all unless someone goes to town hall. But if we decided to just do it hybrid, the weather would not
impact us. And so I don't know if what anybody's thoughts on that are. >> So Karen, it was not was your intent though to post it as both in person and hybrid. So it would have to be both. You couldn't you couldn't option out one or
the other? >> Well, I guess that's the question. If it's posted as hybrid, that means it's partly in person, right? I think, >> right, it would be both, right? That it would be in person,
>> right? So, if somebody were to then go to town hall because it's hybrid, >> someone would have to be there. >> Otherwise, town hall if town hall was closed, >> the hybrid the hybrid portion wouldn't kick in. I don't know because if if we
post it and then town hall is closed then does that mean we can't hold the meeting because we didn't give someone the option? >> Yeah. I mean I'll just I'll weigh in on that. So, we had that issue this past week >> and you know I advise those boards to uh
postpone or if they didn't hit that 48 hour mark um to pull it down and post it as a remote only um just because it you know if people are going there with the expectation they can attend the meeting >> and then you know they didn't get that
message or they might not have um you know access. It just it it'll save you a call. >> Right. Right. So from just from that thinking I was thinking maybe we should just make it a remote meeting so then we
don't have worry about the weather. >> Right. >> Um that's just you know it's up to to you all. It's, you know, I was just putting it out there is we wouldn't want to have to cancel the meeting >> um and then schedule it at some later
date because we're on a crucial time frame. Really, >> I would agree with the idea of the remote. I'm just not sure if it's us and the selectman and the school committee whether that's more than the the
equipment we have or whoever is going to be hosting it is able to manage just in terms of the of the technical equipment. That's just a thought. I don't know one way or the other. Maybe it's not a problem.
>> The select board was included. No, I mean they're certainly welcome to attend. Um but I I think Chris would be the representative for the select board, but um yeah, it would just I think it's doable. We've had, you know, we one one
year we did have a joint meeting with the school committee, the select board, and the finance committee. And um we made it work. Um there's a lot of boxes and I'll uh I'll just need some extra eyes on, you know, who if somebody's
raising a hand to make sure that I see it and catch it. But um >> you don't have you don't have to post until Friday, right? So um >> Well, that was my other question. If Monday ends up being a snow day, does
that mean we haven't hit the 24hour mark if we posted? I think it's calendar calendar days. I don't think it's >> maybe Maybe Chris knows. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Business days. >> Business days. Okay. >> So, for meetings on Monday, they have to
be posted by Thursday. >> Right. So, I'm not sure we'll know. And we can wait till Friday to post. I don't know that we'll know the storm or what's going to happen between Thursday or Friday, but we can certainly wait a day. >> Maybe we could ask the school committee
what they think. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We can always wait. You know, there was they had requested an earlier meeting. It was originally going to be on the 10th and for, you know, whatever reason, um, it it got moved to the third. So, I
don't know if there's an alternative date that would work for the school committee. >> Christo, maybe you can let us know, too. I know you were looking for a number and probably trying to listen at the same time, but maybe you can let us know if the school committee uh and the school administration that would be presenting
if they if they'd be amendable to a virtual meeting, if that would be okay for them, if that would be, you know, based on the situation. >> I do believe that a virtual meeting would be be okay. Um, as it as it stands, I well, I mean, weather
dependent. I'm actually would be traveling for uh should be traveling for uh work next week. So I would be I would or online myself but I I don't think that would be a problem if need if it is necessary. Um and I do have that number if you are >> okay.
>> Uh so um last year's budget was 23,734,943. Uh the approved budget that will be presented is uh 24,923,543 which is an increase of just a tick over 5%. Um almost all that is contractual
obligations. So >> So the fiscal 27 number is 24923543. >> That's correct. Yes, ma'am. >> And just trying to Thank you. And just trying to keep apples to apples, your your the number that you mentioned for
fiscal 26, was that including or excluding the free cash allocation? >> That that was the final approved budget, which would include the free cash allocation. >> Okay. Okay. Well, we'll we'll work out the numbers, but that might not be so apples
for apples, right? if the the new number the old number had the free cash in and then so it's more than a 5% increase then >> I well I'd certainly make the argument it's a 5% increase over the actual oper the actual approved operating budget but
uh you know I understand the uh I understand the nuance >> all right no worries thank you just that's fine >> um Karen while just very quickly on that um when is the last year of the free cash compliment, I guess we call it. What
year are we in? Was it a fiveyear? Are we in year three? Are we in I I kind of lost track. >> Right. I think this would be year three, but um there's been no movement to decreasing free cash over the first two
years. So, we're still back in year one, I guess, if we want to put it that way. So, so the agreement that was made three or four years ago, well, we'll say three years ago right now, there was never really a sunset. Well, there was there
was a sunset that was spoke about, but I I'm I'm getting the feeling that, and we can talk about this when we talk about the budget, but um I'm getting a feeling that there's been no movement towards getting to that >> getting to that sunset
or or has I mean, I don't know. Well, I think and I don't I don't want to speak on behalf of another department, but I think the the challenge in and of itself has just been trying to balance the budget with the
54% of the net revenues that are coming to them to to the school to just balance it based on those numbers. never mind then having to decrease that amount by a certain amount each year as well. So I
think just again just trying to balance the budget with the existing 54% split is a challenge. So >> I I thought >> the free the free cash that Gary's talking about, >> I believe I was on the committee then
and I think that that analysis was done inclusive of the um p the passing of the tax increase, the override. And so the chart was there and if the override passed, there was a capture of the free
cash over a period of time. I I don't recall a chat of recapturing free cash without the override. >> There was I could be wrong. >> Yeah, that was exclusive of not not assuming the override would pass. So,
when Jim um and the select board put together a five-year plan, um part of that putting together that five-year plan was really looking at revenue growth over that period of time and
coming to the calculation that this the school budget probably could support a three to three and a half% increase based on the net revenues that the town's generating. And so that that was that was step one.
So and you know when we already talk about a a 5% increase that's already above what the town can generate for revenue to support that. But within his five-year plan then it was also a plan to then try to to reduce that free cash
gap so that we would actually be a balanced budget. So that was part of the five-year plan. >> Yeah. What I recalled was that we were going to slowly off free cash. >> It was correct 500,000 300,000 and we were going to and and the question I had at the time was, you know, what's going
to happen in year five? Is it going to be sustainable for the schools? That was my biggest concern. Are they going to be able to now wean off all those debtree cash and be able to be self-sufficient? and and you know I think the question
maybe is still there but I think maybe now it's even to more extreme. >> Yeah. And I think um you know I think part of Garrett I think part of >> part of what what makes the whole budget very difficult and I think what we've
tried to do from a budget from a fiscal budget standpoint is to try not to increase the need for free cash. So to not make the the deficit greater but if you know in one sense maintaining the
the structural deficit is is a a win is if we don't increase it. Um so I think that's been a a challenge to to try to maintain that but you know it's all it's all difficult.
>> Go ahead Duncan. Yeah, I can just uh tell you again um my uh meeting with Evan was mostly listening, but you know, I think I think there's a feeling on the school committee, at least from Evan's point of view, that
you know, we ought to be able to look at the the revenue split and he's saying that, you know, it could be one or two points, not a lot, but you know, moving it one one or two points could make a
big difference in how that budget works. >> Yeah. No, and appreciate all of and we'll, you know, we'll talk more as we have numbers in front of us and the re it again and I don't want to do the nuance of it's a pie, right? But 2% more to the school means 2% less to the town
side budget. So where where does that come from? So where where do those dollars get cut from? What department will further get cut or you know where does that come from? >> Hugh you had you you had her your hand up. >> I was just going to say we've heard that
before and I Karen said what I was going to say. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, on on one hand, at the at the beginning of the meeting, we're we're debating about $157,000 pickup truck, but yet on the on the flip
side, we're looking at a half a million dollar at at 2% on on the on the school side. I mean, there's only so much money. There's only so much revenue. Yeah, I I guess I just have to say, you
know, I I really have a problem with the school side and the town side, you know, I mean, it's one town, you know, and we just got to figure out a way to make the budget work and, you know, it just sets sets up acrimony that I think is unnecessary, >> but it's a finite amount of money and
has to be divided fairly. That's all. >> Yeah. I mean the the question is if any one department were to get additional dollars then some other department would have to get less and so um I'm asking it as a
rhetorical question but it's not a rhetorical question. So what department would get less? >> You see the most dangerous thing here and this is where I brought up three years ago is the reliance on free cash a one-time revenue source. >> Yep. um when that let's and this it's
happened in the past for people that have been on this committee for a long time, you myself, we've seen instances where there's been negative free cash in the town where that those num those monies aren't there. We've been lucky in the past, but as that opera money starts to go away and we start become more
reliant on the general fund budget to supplement and less turnback, we're going to see less free cash. So, what that was the question I had three years ago. What happens when the when that source of funding isn't there anymore? I mean, that's like a sledgehammer to come down in the school department.
>> I think Karen made the point a minute ago this we're trying to fit it within the available revenue and the philosophies are all fine. It would be nice and I I got reformed on the subject of use of free cash some
years ago. However, it's still money and we have to have enough to cover the needs of each department. And as Karen makes out, if you give more to one side, however in entitled, etc., it's less for
somebody else. There's only I mean, nobody knows this with a finite amount. You can't make it more. You just have to spread it more thinly. Having said that, do we have another subject? No, I think uh
I appreciate you, Hugh. Um so I think that's uh that's the budget discussion for tonight. So again, it it it's hard to have these conversations until we get a full roll up to really see um you know where the
numbers are all landing and and where the shortfalls are and and and all of that. But um that'll be coming soon. Um all right. So um the next item on the agenda is is there any committee or
leasison updates? >> Pardon me. Only only at the treasurer and and I sent you the uh the email that that Nicole is looking for an additional reschedu whether it's a week or or or 10 days. she she couldn't put it together
today. And so that's my update. >> Great. Thank you. >> Same with the beach committee. Um Sean just had left it at home. He was at work. He had a lot of things going on. So rather than stress him out, I said, you know, let's just do it on another
night. So I asked you Karen. So I think when you do the treasures meeting, maybe we'll attach those two together. Might >> Yep. Be best. Sure. So, let's look the So, let's look at our um let's jump ahead for a second unless there's any other committee lay on updates that
someone wanted to do. Nope. Okay. So, our next meeting is next is February 3rd and then our next scheduled meeting is the February 24th and we have Diamond there. Um, I know we
all try to reserve our Tuesday nights um for meetings and I'm I'm trying to be cognizant to not hold us all here every Tuesday night. So um to someone we should talk about what our February schedule would be. Do we want to
schedule another meeting between the 2nd and the 24th or are we good with that? Because if if we wanted to hold that temp as of right now, we can I'm sure have the beach committee in the school um diamond on the 24th along with
the town diamond in the beach committee. >> And we usually keep it open and then if we don't need it, >> we do. Yeah. So, let's that's a that's a great point. So, let's let's try to hold our Tuesdays and then if we don't need a meeting, we won't. But if something
comes up that would be helpful. Um, so as of right now, we have a meeting on the 3 and then our next scheduled meeting for affirmatively with an agenda is the 24th. Okay, >> that works for me. >> Okay. All right. And then we'll uh see
as it goes because it's it is budget rollup time. So now is the time for us to to pull it all together. >> Okay. >> All right. So I skipped over. So action items to approve the minutes. I did rework the December 9th, 2025, the
January 6th, 2026 in the Janu January 6th and January 13th meeting. So um I I basically scaled it down to just say more discussion ensued u rather than go over line item details that were noted
in the budget. No, >> if everybody's okay with those, I would entertain a motion. >> Motion to approve. >> All right. So, that would be the December 9th, 2025, the January 6, 2026,
and the January 13, 2026. So, I have a motion in a second. >> Yes. >> Is there any discussion on those minutes? >> No. >> No. Okay. Thank you. I'll do a roll call. El >> I >> Duncan
>> I >> Gary >> yes >> Hugh >> Hugh Morton I >> Nancy >> Nancy Stanton cross I >> Zack >> Zach Brew I >> Christopher >> Christopher Thresher I >> thank you and Karen RS I I think I got
>> forgot me you forgot me >> I knew I forgot somebody Cindy >> how could you forgive Cindy for God's sakes >> Cindy Cindy down. I >> I did feel I was missing a box. So, thank you, Cindy. >> So,
>> all right. Um, so I did not do the January 20th yet. So, we'll hold on those. >> All right. So, I would just like and it has nothing to do with the agenda or the or anything to do. I would like to do a shout out um if we can in finance
committee for two people. One is the next week my mother is turning 95 years old and her father my grandfather Grundy was on the finance committee. >> Wow.
>> Aboutund and god knows what. So I just I just want to just add it to the record. >> So Al, how how many people how many people on this call Al still refer to uh the hardware store as Grundy's? >> Grundies. Yes. >> Probably most. Yeah.
>> Yeah, I do. >> Yeah. >> So, so anyway, I it has nothing to do with nothing, but I just wanted to add that to the uh to the historical record. >> Well, happy birthday to you, Mom. >> No kidding. >> Yeah. >> Happy birthday.
>> Yeah, happy birthday. Appreciate the light lightness. So, thank you. Thank you. Much appreciated. >> Thank you. >> All right. Reminiscence. I can remember it was Mrs. Brendy's restaurant. That's right. That was my grandmother who was a
petty who was was my track to the uh to the Mayflower. >> So where was where was Mrs. Grundy's restaurant >> at the very beginning of where if you walk into the into the uh uh the
hardware store now, which used to be a Lumbiard and whatever he would tell you that was that was that was my grandmother's um >> Yep. Huh. >> Yeah. And then the poor thing back in the 18 1980s
>> uh got a got a horrible brain tumor >> and never the same. But but that doesn't matter. I I don't need to bore anybody with those details, but they lived right next door to the uh to the to the Lumbiard.
>> Yep. >> All right. Thank you. Anybody else on any topics of future to add to any other agenda for next week? M >> madam chair, I just wanted to make one correction. Um I noticed I actually gave uh an incorrect number that was off by
$36,789 because >> uh so I'm I'm sending this to I'm emailing everyone right now with the correct numbers uh for the budget. >> Okay, great. Thank you, Christopher. Christopher, you're you're gonna be whipped. I mean, after
>> I I know 36,000 is >> it's not a huge discrepancy. Luckily, >> right, we're not holding anybody to that number. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks. Appreciate it, Christopher. All right. So, if nothing else, I think we
can um have a motion to adjurnn. >> So move. >> Second. >> All right. I'll do a roll call. L >> L I >> Q >> I >> Hugh Morton I >> Cindy >> Cindy Brown I >> Gary
>> Yes. >> Nancy >> Nancy Stanton Claus I >> Duncan >> Law I >> Zack >> Zack Leoo I >> Christopher >> Christopher Thrasher I
>> and I think that's everybody and Karen Rose I. All right. Um, onward to next week.