Good evening everyone. This is the finance committee meeting. It is Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. It's 6:31. And I'd like to call the meeting to order with the pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States
>> to the republic for which it stands. One nation >> under God, indivisible, >> indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Under Mass General Law chapter 3A, this section 20F, this meeting is being
recorded. On March 28th, 2025, Governor Healey signed into law a bill which extends the temporary provisions pertaining to open meeting law to June 30th, 2027. Specifically, this further extension allows the public bodies to continue holding meetings remotely without a
quorum of the public body physically present at the meeting location and to provide adequate alternative access to remote meetings. The language does not make any substantive changes to the open meeting law other than extending the expiration date of the temporary provisions regarding remote meetings
from March 31st, 2025 to June 30th, 2027. All right. Well, hello everyone. >> Hello. >> I am just going to do a roll call of who's here. So, we need to do that with virtual meetings. So, we have Al Le
>> here. >> Gary Carrero >> here. Cindy Brown >> here. >> Zack Leru >> here. >> Duncan Law >> here. >> Nancy Stanton Cross >> here. >> And myself, Karen Rouse. I think I got
everybody right. So, tonight we do not have Hugh Morton uh let me know that he could not attend. And Christopher Thrasher may come. Uh he's not sure he's going to be able to make it, but um so he is not here presently either. So we
have a quorum and so we can get started on our meetings. >> Okay. >> So tonight we are starting our fiscal 27 budgets and um I tried to give everyone
a a rough order. So, we're going to start with the building department and then we'll go into the board of health and then shellfish marine services and then fourth we'll do the town hall, the town annex and the cemetery. So, that's
our order tonight. Uh hopefully that works for everybody still. Um so, Ralph Souza, we have you here. So, uh you're up. You're our first budget meeting of 2027. No pressure.
No pressure. All right. So, uh, basically what I've got is a breakdown of my salaries, the clerk salaries, the the, you know, the cost to run the department. I didn't see I was absent last year because last year I was having surgery,
so I didn't do the budget last year. But in prior years, it was they they gave me the sheets on what the department brought in. So I don't know if that was given to you or not. >> It was. So last year probably the town
administrator um presented the budget on your your behalf. Yes. >> Okay. So what it is is I don't have the seats because I was told today that you wouldn't be looking at the money that was taken in but I you know I said yeah I would but
um I don't have that. What I've got is what the the budgets were prior to and this year's proposed budget. >> So, Ralph, you might be referring to your the building department's revenue. Is that what you're saying?
>> Yeah, the revenue. The revenue. I don't have that with me. No. >> Okay. Okay. >> Well, we can start off and and and look at your expense budget, but then you can follow up afterwards. That would be great to to let us know what you have for revenue and uh and what your what that is.
>> Yeah, what I'll do is I'll gather that up and turn that over. >> That'd be great. >> Well, for now, my revenue the um the 86 approved the excuse me, the 2026 approved budget is listed one column and the department request budget in the
second column. What I didn't see last year because again I was out for surgery last year. It was a salary account which is $30,000. I didn't ask for that. I think that's something that Jim's put in. And what I when I kind of talked asked him
about it the other day, he said it was because I think he well I mean he's all done in the end of the month anyway. So I don't know why he's worried about me retiring. But in the event that I would have retire or leave, they're fig they're knowing that the the next commissioner
is going to get more money than I'm getting. They're not going to come into the town. They're already having a hard time filling the locals position. And at Tom Springtown meeting, they boosted that up, which if id have known they were going to do that, I would I would have objected to that only because
my salary, I only get bump ups when the rest of the town gets bump ups out of 2%, 1%, whatever it is. I have never gotten a big substantial bump up out of out of eight communities. Uh let's sports next to last in salary for the
commissioner. The only one that's lower and I kind of find it hard to believe is Swansea. Swansea is at 79,000. Westport's at 87,000. But based on eight communities, um the average salary for the
commissioner is $95,790 and I'm nowhere near that. >> So Ralph had have just um just so I can make sure I understand. So, did you put together this budget for fiscal 27? And >> no, I put together a budget, but again,
the 30,000 showed up after the fact. You know, I called Jim on it the other day, and that's what I was told. I was told, well, we got to put the 30,000 in the event you leave because they he pretty much knows he's going well, he's not again, it's not going to be him. It's going to be the the the assistant from D
that's coming over. But it it he pretty much knows that the position is not going to go for what I'm getting. >> Yes. >> Already the local position is they bumped it up at town meeting and there's still nobody applying for it.
>> So just to just want to clarify. So, I know sometimes if somebody is nearing retirement, they they the budget might include a vacation payout kind of thing. Are you saying that's not that? >> That's not that. >> It's not that.
>> No. No, that's not that. >> Because I mean, it's there's there's rumors all over floating around that I'm retiring because I'm 68 years old. And that's that started a while back. And then Jim got nervous about it when I went out in January on surgery. is he going to come back or not? And I was
asked by him three, four times whether I was going to come back or not. And I came back, >> which I came back, I asked to come back a little earlier, but the doctor at the time said, "I don't want you out in the field. I want you sitting in the office. I don't want you out in the field yet. I had total knee replacement surgery."
So I I spent February and March, well actually March and April in the office and then I took it back from the doctor's building perspective after after when the doctor said I could and that's it's been like that ever
since. >> All right. Um I think um I think um Al has his hand up for a question. >> Yes. Thanks. Just just very very quickly based on what what Ralph just said, I
would recommend that we reduce the $30,000 down to a number that approximates $97,500, which is the average uh salary of, pardon me, of building inspectors in the
area. And I would also just change the wording a little bit because it's a little confusing uh to me. Salary conti contingency account as opposed to salary account. >> Right. >> So it's it's it's a b it's a bucket.
It's not um you know it's it's it's not cooked in. It's sitting there and whatever. But if 30,000 is Oh, pick the number. $15,000 more than what is the average in the
area? Uh, I'm not sure we need to do that. >> Could I also ask a question? Does this does this line item also include the assistant? I think if you recall, we as a finance committee, I believe, added an
assistant building inspector last year. >> I think that's separate, Cindy. >> Oh, it is separate. Okay. >> I think so. I think we've got 64 grand uh cooked into the books on top of it. Yeah. now. >> Yeah.
>> Which they that position got a boost in the spring town meeting, which again I would have objected to if I was available to attend that meeting only because they're not saying, "Well, let's look at Ralph's salary and see what Ralph could use, >> right? >> We just went to the assistant so we
could hire make sure we got to hire a guy." after I think I've been doing it alone in West since 2007. I I came to West as the actor in 2005. I worked with John McN back then and
John fought to get me full time. The two years that I was there with him and my first day walking in at full time, he resigned and three weeks later I was by myself with that town, >> nobody else with me. And a few times they threw in money for the assistance
position. And they would put the money in, take the money out, put the money in, take the money out. I never got an assistant. I never squalked about it, but I never got an assistant. There was never, it was the first time in a long period of time Westport didn't have two building inspectors, right? >> You always had two building inspectors.
You had Bob Maltes in and Lynwood Consac. Then you had Bob Maltes in and in and John McN was John McN and me for two years. And then in 2007 that stopped. It was just me. So Ralph, let me just ask you. Um, so first, the
finance committee doesn't determine people's salaries or raises. That's not a function that that we can do. We can we can fund dollars if if we feel that um that the budget should have it, but ultimately it's the select board's
determination on on whether or not anybody gets a raise or not. So, have you have you talked to the town administrator or the select board? >> I'm waiting for the next administrator. >> Okay. >> Me and the existing com administrator,
we agree to disagree. >> Okay. So, I think that would be that would be a a place to start um to to have those discussions and probably the personnel board in terms of looking at your salary as it compares to other
towns and kind of helping the justification of your salary. >> By the way, FYI, uh Jim has joined the call. Jim Hartnett is now on the call. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Um so, I would I would say that's an important piece to start. We can
certainly >> Okay. uh make some notes and we'll we'll we can follow up um with that progress on that to see as as you progress down a road with the salary if if you if that that might lead to your satisfaction. If
not, you can certainly um we the finance committee can raise it again and then we can um help evaluate your budget. Um you know, if there's if if there's dollars to potentially be added or not. Um, but I I would suggest that that format to to
do that first. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Does that make sense for everyone else on the finance committee? Gary, you've got your hand up. >> Yeah. And I think just to echo what you're saying, Car, you know, we I think we just came off the heels of a recl study, class comp study. So, what does
that look like, not only for the building inspector's position, but really for all positions that that study entailed? So, you know, I I understand what Ralph is saying, but you know, let let's take we need to take a a look at what this looks like for the entire town, and I don't know if that's been
addressed. I don't know if that's supposed to be addressed in the FY27 budget, if some of it was addressed in FY26. Um, I don't know if it was addressed at all. >> So, I guess maybe somebody can shed some light on that. I I I don't know because if we're going to have every department head coming in and and and doing this
kind of exercise, I think we need to know as the finance committee, you're right. We don't we don't set people's salary. We only fund the positions and fund the fund those budgets. So that's a for the non-unions, it's personnel. For everyone else, it's it's you know, pretty much select board that handles that. >> So I I don't I mean I don't know where
we are with that. >> I'm not sure either. >> Yeah. I I don't know. this. >> Well, I think I think it's been addressed on a case-byase basis where perhaps there were egregious differences. This is the first time the
um building issue uh has come up as Ralph indicated. You know, he was he was not in the office last year when we were discussing these issues. Uh there was additional funds put in put into that budget at the time and now would be the
appropriate time to to address the um the similar positions in other communities in that um in that study. As you as you indicated, Ralph, we're near we're pretty much near the bottom and um
maybe it is time that we need to uh re-evaluate that um that position as well. We appreciate it. >> Great. Um, Gary, do you still have your Oh, is your hand still up or it's not up anymore?
>> Oh, that's that's me. >> All right. Great. Hi, Zach. Go ahead. >> Hello. Uh, maybe we could take advantage if Jim is here to ask him what that salary account um line item is. >> You sure can. >> So, we put it in last year, right? We've
had the assistant position in there for almost I think maybe three years, at least two years, and we have I think we have one application and the applicant only wanted to work part-time. So, I think we've come to the realization that if we want to fill the assistant position, we're going to have to increase the salary. Now, we're going
into negotiations with the teamsters this year. So, that's something um I think is going to need to be looked at. Um I think Ralph has merit with his salary. I I've we've discussed this in the past and we've suggested that you
know he he do his salary comparisons present it to the personnel board and the select board and uh see what they can do. Some of the other departments have done that. Um I do think if Ralph walks out the door that in order to fill that position you're going to need to increase that salary.
I don't know exactly what but certainly more than what he's being paid now. And that typically happens, right? You know, when somebody walks out the door in order to get somebody new in, the salary goes up. You know, I walk out the door and the salary goes up 25 $30,000.
I mean, it's just unfortunate that happens that way, but um I think if Ralph can show that um do some salary comparisons with neighboring towns, look at the existing wage study and justify an increase, I think he should present it to the personnel board and the select board.
>> Thank you. Thank you, Jim. appreciate that. >> Look at this place. >> Um, so anything else? Any other questions on um, so Oh, Nancy, go ahead. >> The rest of it looks like to me
straightforward. It's straight, you know, it's >> Sorry, just to let everyone know, so I toggle back and forth between actually looking at the budget. So if your hand gets raised and I don't recognize you, it's probably because I'm looking at the
budget and usually anybody can feel free to go, hey, there's a hand raised. So feel free to to uh to do that. So uh Nancy, go ahead. >> So I have been talking when I started talking about um special purpose line
items on the budget, capital improvements, five years ahead, what type of machines do we need building and things? I think we also have to take a hard look of this as being the perfect example of um the people that are in um
positions uh such as this that are aging up and potential for retirement and the reality of paying a salary for someone else coming in. So, it's really a perfect example of making sure that the
salary is going to meet um the requirements of bringing someone in when we have someone that's close to retirement. So, I think that that's important to be aware of. We are a small town to be aware of those employees that
have dedicated themselves to Westport and have done so um on the lower side of what those salaries cause for. And there needs to kind of be an ongoing review of where else are we going to go so that we can build and prepare and not be in a
situation where I have to hear something like if Ralph left tomorrow oo we'd be you know and we don't want to be that way. I wouldn't think I think we'd want to have you know he's we're looking at salary comparisons. I think that that's an analysis that needs to take place,
but I'd hate to be held on the fact that we don't that you don't have a plan in place because people are going to retire. So that that's just my two cents on that. Thank you. >> Thanks, Nancy. And just to it it I and
we do um to some extent and the budgets are so tight that there isn't the luxury to put dollars in that potentially won't be spent. Um but but you're right and the other piece that that's always troubling I think to all of us is that
if you have somebody that's working that may not be even close to market but they don't get paid but we fully well know if they leave and you replace them that the salary is going to go up. That's really an unfair situation that you're willing
to pay somebody else coming in the market but you're not willing to pay an existing employee the market. So, >> that's that's one that's very troubling to me that >> um you know, I think to all of us, you know, we and and that was part of the
salary study to really evaluate that and then somehow figure out how to budget that to be fairer to our existing employees and thank them for what they do. And the challenge is the dollars just aren't there to support it. But um
we do need to figure out a a way to try to make that happen. But agree >> um >> anybody else have their hand up on >> Yeah, >> Al does. Just ju just very very briefly
and I think you know you both have hit on on one of the longer term issues that that about general accounting practice that it is very easy to evaluate uh capital expenditure
a truck uh plow you know what whatever the heck it might be but we need to figure out about human capital >> because you Not only is is human capital uh you
know a a a hugely important part of the of the wheel, but if you look at our budgets, I don't care what department it is, we're looking at 40, 50, 60, 65% of a total budget is on human capital.
So I don't want to go on a rant. I promise I won't. But I think the personnel board, the select board, whomever it might be, because it's really not, you know, our purview to to to really start focusing on what is important and it is not fair to your
point, Karen, whether it is Ralph or anybody else in in and Jim who is who is currently leaving and we're sorry to see him go that we replace that human capital with somebody that is getting
paid paid 10, 15, 20% more. I mean, what's the value of that? What's the value? So, I'll leave it at that. But somebody, some organization, some subcommittee, ad hoc committee has got to start addressing this and and and
make some substantive changes. And you know what? If we have my my favorite saying, free cash, which I as Cindy and I have gone by, hate hate hate or I hate,
how about a little bit of that free cash going into the pockets of the people who are making it happen every single day of the week. So anyway, I'll be quiet. >> All right. Thanks. Appreciate that. Appreciate your comments. I didn't mean
appreciate you being quiet. I meant I appreciate >> after I said I'm like I didn't mean it to I appreciate you being quiet. I meant I appreciated your comments. >> Actually, my my my Cindia appreciates me being quiet too. So So good for you. >> Okay.
>> All right. Thank you. Um Ralph, is there anything on your budget? Everything else looks um >> Everything else is pretty much the same. >> Pretty much the same a little bit. you know, part-time clerk increased a little bit because because we're doing online permitting now.
>> I'm uh using her more because she's really savvy with the online permitting and I hear there's stumbling blocks with that. Uh I know there's stumbling blocks with me with that as far as how how the permits get issued now because I used to
kind of be specific to where I worded them. I've got a problem showed up today because the permit online didn't specify everything that was going to go happen there and now I've got to look at it again and I'm going to have to tweak it
because what I went there to do an inspection on wasn't what was on that permit. >> So, you know, I never I never had that problem before when I was writing them out because I was specific of what they were for. Just a little bit.
>> All right. Well, uh, any other questions for Ralph? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. Well, thank Ralph. We appreciate you being here and doing everything you do. >> We uh we got some notes that we'll um
you've got a direction that that uh that you can head with your salary and then we'll follow up with you um as we get closer to the wrapping up the budget. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks, Ralph. All right. Take care. >> Thanks, Ralph. >> Yep. Bye. >> Bye. Thanks, Ralph. >> See you later. Bye.
>> All right. Thank you. >> All right. So, our next budget that we have scheduled is the board of health transfer station and animal control. I think Matt Armando is here. Uh, hi Matt.
I think I saw you somewhere. >> Yeah. >> I saw your box. There you are. >> All right. Yeah. Good evening, Madam Chair and members of the finance committee. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you guys tonight. I'm just here to present and review our department budgets and
highlight some key priorities and try to answer any questions you guys might have. So, um, if you want to start, we could start with the, um, board of health. Um, and again, I apologize for the late memo today, Karen. It was just it's been a
little hectic over there. So, I just wanted to put something together for you guys to kind of maybe review and follow along with tonight. Um, so as far as the board of health goes, um, it's just, you know, standard. We increase the personnel side of the budget by 3%.
The expenses were level funded, so there's, um, nothing really going on with that. We do have a request for FY27, which would be the addition of a part-time clerk. Um, and I'll I'll I can read through this. So, over the past six
years, our department has experienced a significant increase in workload driven largely by an increase in demand um and/or new revised state and local regulations. These regulations have become more comprehensive and require additional paperwork, documentation,
followup, and public education. As a result, staff must dedicate more time to supporting the public in uh public such as installers, engineers, businesses, and property owners and residents. In addition to the number of temporary food events, mobile vendors and related
activities, all that has grown significantly. Uh this increase has resulted in more applications and fees that must be collected, reviewed, and processed. Uh collectively these demands have placed a substantial strain on our current team affecting both our effic uh
efficiency and our ability to provide timely and high quality service to the community. So we've already taken some steps to try to manage the workload and we've delayed the implementation of our electronic permitting um just until we can try to
get you know caught up our handle on things. Uh we've uh limited the number of weekly perks that we perk tests that we've do do on a weekly basis and we've modified our local septic regulation to reduce the burden on both the homeowners and the staff.
Steps we've not taken yet due to the revenue implications. Um we have not eliminated the permit requirement for dumpsters as of yet and we have not eliminated the permit requirement for portable toilets. If we do remove those requirements, um
it would result in a significant loss of revenue to the town. My estimation is anywhere between 53 and 58,000 annually just by eliminating those permit requirements for those two items. >> The board of health has has approved fee
increases effective uh January 2nd, 2026 to help support and justify the addition of a part-time clerk. Estimated increased fee revenues We're projecting anywhere between 20 and 25,000. So adding one part-time senior clerk
would allow us to manage our workload more effectively, reduce delays, and maintain the uh quality of service expected uh by the public. So my idea would be to add um a clerk at 19 and 3/4 hours per week uh at a pay rate um based
on the step one pay rate for a senior clerk in the union. um uh pay schedule is $202 an hour with an annual cost of approximately $20,560. So, we're looking to add that to the
budget. >> Thanks, Matt. And just uh I see Tanya has her hand up, so let Tanya uh go ahead. >> Hey, Tanya. I just wanted to make uh two comments based on the earlier discussion. Um Matt hasn't mentioned,
but we have two staff who are in their 70s and 80s who we should be planning for retirement and the need to um fill probably at higher levels than than the current salary structure would support.
So that's just something for you know um sort of fuel to the fire for the notion that you've all discussed about um sort of looking at the human capital. Um and the second thing I just wanted to elaborate a minute on the um the
dumpster and portagon those are local regulations. Those are the only regulations that we can um modify um at the local level. and um in terms of um impacting um workload. Um but uh
the um I believe it's the dumpster regulation um almost um relates to almost um 3,000 permits a year. Is that right, Matt? I forget the exact number. We had done the research to look at what the impact would be. And that's why it's
so labor intensive. It does bring in a lot of revenue, but it is labor intensive. Unless we given the other increases in um demand on the staff that are mandated, we can't not do septic
permits or whatever. >> This is the only discretionary area that we could cut back if we didn't get additional staff support. And I'd also mention, you know, if we move to electronic permitting, again, Ralph mentioned the challenges with the
transition. um you know, if we were able to bring a part-time staff person who is um computer savvy, that would be really helpful um because that's a constraint on on some of our um abilities currently
in the staff. So, um again, it's just another um point of reference or information for um supporting our request um to to um add more staff.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Now, go ahead. >> Yeah, Matt, I just had a very very quick question. the 19 and 3/4 hours is that to keep it under 20 for uh union issues?
I mean, what why 19 and 3/4 hours? That that's it's it's just I'm curious. >> I think that's the the threshold once you go to 20 hours, it becomes a benefited position. >> Okay. >> Um so if you keep it under that, it it I
don't believe there's benefits involved. >> Quite all right. No, no need to go any further. It was just it it was just kind of a ju just like the $202 an hour. I round it down for God's sakes. I'll I'll throw in the two cents. I mean, but but
anyway, you've answered my question. Thank you very much. >> Great. Thank you. Anyone else have any questions on what we just talked about? >> So, I have a question, Matt, on the so the position. So looking at your budget,
you there's a high the highlighted part-time clerk 25 hours a week and so it looks like your department request was 27,000 and then the town administrator made it to zero. Is that the same position that we're referring to?
>> Yes. So, I did discuss this with uh with Jim uh when we did our budget review, and you know, I understandably I know that um everybody would like more help, but it's not possible to give everybody extra people, but we really are in a
spot where we're we're just we're drowning and we need you need the extra help. Even a part-time, we could probably use a full-time clerk, but on a part-time basis, it'll help and it'll get, you know, maybe get us just above water. Um, yeah, I did put 27,000 down
because I wasn't sure um where like I know with the gym or whoever is going to be negotiating with the teamsters and I'm not sure if that pay rate is going to go up or not, the $202. So, I kind of just threw a discretionary number in there. So,
>> okay. I just wanted to make sure we were talking that was the same >> the same number. And um and I don't need you to speak for Jim. I know Jim's here, but um the is the the reason that the town administrator pulled it out of the
budget was for pure budget reasons or did you not have justifications to support the need? >> Uh I don't know. He popped on so maybe he can answer. >> It's strictly budget. Um >> strictly budget. Okay. >> You know, it's not just the board of
health. It's police, it's fire, it's town accountant, it's the assessor's office, it's cemetery department, the highway department. Everybody needs help. Everybody, you know, is looking for more money. It's there's just not enough operating funds to fund
additional positions. So, it's yeah, you know, I see what the board of health is going through. Um, they've taken on a lot of work that uh this electronic permitting will actually help reduce work once they get it up and going. So I I hope we can move on that fairly quick. But yeah, they're short staffed like
many of the other departments. That's you know nothing help just strictly making the bottom number work so that we can have a balanced budget. >> Yep. Thank you. I I was pretty sure I knew the answer but I just didn't want to make an assumption. So, um, question
for you too, Matt, where in Tanya, you mentioned that if the your permitting fees are very labor intensive, but if you were to eliminate those fees, there would be 50,000 in lost revenue, but how
much would you save in in your labor costs if you did that? So, what's your net number? >> I don't know. I don't know if I can equate it to labor costs, but I can say that the labor itself, the just the, you
know, the the amount of work that the clerks have to do to chase down the the companies, the trash companies to get the monthly reports and get, you know, hound them for the money to come in. I, you know, I I guess you can equate the hours that we wouldn't have to do that
anymore to the hourly rate and then that I could give you a number, but I don't know that right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and that's the, you know, it it seems to not make sense to do something that you lose 50,000 in revenue if it only cost you 20,000 to
generate that revenue, right? So, you're still netting the overall town is netting positive. But, and I I can appreciate and understand that you might be at the point where you have no choice and but that would be a detrimental budget issue for the whole town. It
would help your department because you could reduce your expenses, but it would hurt the town's budget. So, it so I'd be curious to know what what that net number would be for for that. >> Um, can I jump in? >> No, feel free. Thank you.
>> There's actually no net savings, dollar savings. This strategy would be pursued to um make the workload manageable for the existing staff. So they're overworked now and they're
stressed out and this activity is not mandated by state law. So we can eliminate the activity to align the workload with the existing staff if we go get no additional staff. That's what we will have to do. We've
already done we looked at strategies to align the workload to existing staff so that it's not like if we stop doing this we won't have enough work for the two existing full-time staff. So there's no
um reduction in expenses. Maybe a modest amount very tiny amount for less paper used or something but um really not. So your so your net number is really you would lose revenue by 50,000 and you
would save expenses by zero. So your net number would be a $50,000 hit to the town's budget. So that would be a drastic change to me as opposed to spending $20,000 to get you more staff.
And so you spend 20 instead of losing 50. >> Right. >> Right. And the the other thing that we have done to try to be proactive to support the town is um our board of health fees um hadn't been raised in three years. We've raised those
effective January 1st and we anticipate 20 to $25,000 in additional revenue which will happen whether we get additional staff or not because that's the same workload. It's just a higher impact on the contractors and the
residents who have to pay a higher fee >> or the businesses. Um but >> uh you know it's sort of the cost of doing business in town. Um so um we think we've done what we can to
um provide the revenue to support that staff position anyways separate from the um um so but if we get that staff position not only do we get the additional fees revenue from the raised rates on the mandated fees
mandated permits um but we would also be able to maintain the discretionary permitting um of the contractors in Porter John's um and so would not lose that revenue. >> Yep. Okay. Thank you. Um Gary, you've
got your hand up. >> Yeah. So, thanks Matt um for attending tonight here. Uh you know um I want to ask this question. You know, this committee is really focused on dollars and cents and the bottom line, but I
think it goes be well beyond that. Um, when does it become a public safety issue? You know, when is when is not hiring two or three police officers or not being able to, you know, certify a restaurant or or look at this stuff and uh not being able to, you know, go out
to a home and inspect or we miss we miss projects that are out there that could capture revenue for the town, you know. So, to me, it's more than just dollars and cents. This is this becomes a public safety issue where we can't show we we're missing things. I mean, let's face it, this is all human and and a lot of
people are, you know, in the field. They can't be you can't be in multiple places at once. That's just impossible. So, at what point do we go to the public and say, "Listen, this is an issue. This is an issue where it's a we're at a critical state that we need we need bodies and and in order to get that, we
need to pay people." And we come back to the same same thing. So my question is is you know this should be almost like a campaign to the public that you know this is not just more not about dollars and cents anymore. This is about a critical not being able to fulfill key positions in these departments that a
public safety risk. I mean you guys are out there looking at restaurants. You're out there you know you know looking at everything as far as the public health for the town is concerned. where where is that I guess what do we what do we what can we do I guess that's
the question you know do we do we have a campaign that says to the public you know do we do we have meetings where we need to go to the public and say look this is what we this is what we're seeing in these departments this is what we think needs to be done you know um I get we have limited revenues but at a
certain point this has become a problem you know a big problem and you we're going to hear this probably from every single department that comes in front of us I mean look at the look at the first two Yeah, I mean this is going to be, you know, the the the um the story book for the rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest of these budgets at what
point do we address this and and and try to at least maybe have a game plan going forward that's that's kind of what where I'm at >> so like Tanya said we're just we're we're doing whatever we can to be creative and try to you know um by raising fees uh that needed to be raised
anyways by looking at reducing um in other areas is but the bottom line is we can only do so much and I think we've you know as a department but I think we've done enough to justify adding this to our budget uh giving
everything we just went over >> right and and we don't want to have critical issues where there's there's problems in town you know we want to be able to support the budgets and if we can find you're right if you find different ways to generate revenue you can you can almost sell that and be like okay we can we can fund that position
But I think globally for the town, uh, it it's a major issue, you know, not being able to fill a lot of these key key oppositions. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, Gary. Um, Matt, do you want to talk about your other two budgets, too,
the transfer station and acco? >> Yes. Uh, they shouldn't take nearly as long, I would hope. So, >> same story. Same story, different budget, but go ahead. So just the transfer station, you know, just the standard 3% increase. The only thing on the personnel side of the transfer
station, we asked uh for an additional 2500. Uh we we're experiencing extended weight times at the facilities uh that we dispose at. They're taking more and more trucks in and bigger trucks and now our weight times go from a half hour to sometimes to an hour and a half to two
hours plus and it just throws the whole you know 8 hours becomes not enough time to do what we need to do. So, we're running into a bit, you know, more overtime than we have in the past where we uh the need for it. Um, so that's the reason for that request, that increase
in the budget. Um, going down to transfer station expenses, uh, we're asking for a $3,500 increase. And this is, I think, all stuff that, um, I just want to bring up my I'm toggling a little bit too, Karen, between screens. Um,
so these are um items that Jim has already approved, but I'm just kind of reviewing them with the committee here. Um, so, uh, with the, uh, the maintenance on the vehicle is just insanely expensive. I mean, we're already 15 grand into
repairs on our rolloff truck um, right now. And the cost to even drive, you know, it's up getting preventive maintenance, oil change, and all that stuff. you know, that's $1,800. I mean, the the cost to do these things on these trucks has just gone up so much. So,
that's why we asked for that uh increase of 3500. And the cost to dispose of our recyclables has gone through the roof. So, we've asked for an increase of 6,000 there, which again Jim had um already uh recommended. The things that Jim and I didn't get a
chance to talk about because these happened very recently. Um we're right now get we have a consultant that monitors the landfill that um I work with and we have a lot of shrubbery that's been been growing up and it seems like we got
more and more of it and it it's all around the the cap landfill. >> So our staff at the transfer station has been going up there and trying to manage it but it's kind of a precare uh they're in gullies and ravines. It's not safe for our staff to go up there and try to
manage cutting these shrubs um flush. I mean, a consultant expressed concerns about overgrown shrubbery. The the root systems from them shrubs pose a risk to the landfill cap. He recommends annual inspections of cutting any large shrubs flush to the surface. So, for next year
and beyond to accomplish this, we're going to have to hire a contract out with a landscape company. So, I'm asking um in the landfill monitoring line item, I'm asking for a $2,500 increase. Um, and like again, I hadn't had a chance to talk to Jim because this is all very
like within the last day or so, my conversations with the consultant. Um, and tire disposal. For the longest time, we were paying $750 to dispose of a container of tires. Well, we were just recently informed that that's gone to
$,750 per container. Not even a little jump. it just went way through the roof. Um, so we weren't when I talked to Jim initially about the budget, we were good where we were, but now we have to revise that. And um, so I'm requesting an
increase to the 2650 for that specific line item. Um, and oh, and just lastly, we we raise fees at the transfer station mostly on just bulky nuts, stickers, or punch cards to help cover some of these
increased disposal costs. >> All right, thanks, Matt. I got to see there's two hands up. Uh, or now there's one, but um Gary, go ahead. There were two a second ago, so I lost one. >> You guys are tricking me.
>> Um, how long have we how long has the monitoring been on the on the on the cap landfill and how much longer do we have? Are we >> I think we're down to about six years left. >> Okay. >> Um, so, uh, it's been going on for I
don't know, maybe at 20 plus years at this point. >> So, it's been going on quite a while. So after that after that after the monitoring is done I mean we have a do we have a special account where the funds sit for for the monitoring of the landfill. Is there there's a special fund that we have set aside?
>> So we have an account called receipts reserved. >> Yeah. >> And I believe when the budgets are done that particular line item is funded from that account. Mhm. >> But that's something maybe Jim could speak to more when he if he you know at
some point in time he could you know he know he would know that more than I do. >> So somewhere down the line another five six years we won't have to I mean we'll have to do maybe some maintenance now out there but we won't have to be held to the um standards that we are now I guess. >> Yeah it'll be significantly reduced. The
monitoring will will maybe go to every three years or or something like that before it goes away altogether. >> Okay. All right. Thanks. >> Okay. And then just on animal control. >> I think Al's got his hand up. He He put his hand back up. See, he's tricking.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I can't keep my mouth shut. So So um Matt tires, we're talking about increasing the budget. Have we Have you thought about increasing the uh the fee?
for getting rid of the time. I I'm sure you have, but can can you address that a little bit and and how do we fit into the scheme of let's say disposing it to XYZ tire company as opposed to uh
bringing a tire in? I mean, are we on par? Are we a you know, more expensive, less expensive? And can we can we I know it's small. It is nothing is small potatoes as as we know. I mean every everything is a budget. So I I just want
to hear your thoughts and Tanya chime in of course on on on that if you would. >> So well with with the tires um they come you know somebody comes in with a a car tire there's a fee for that. I want to say it maybe $15 uh $10 but $15 as of
January 1st. They pay that fee and there's a um we have a 40 yard open container that we put all the tires that come through the gate >> and once that fills up we deliver it down to uh a place in New Bedford um FN
FNB rubberized we bring it to. There's no other company that I know of in our general area in immediate area that takes tires like this. >> I don't know of any. Um, we've been looking and looking to try to get, you know, somebody else or how can we deal
with this differently. Coanta um or Camass now who takes our trash? They do, but their facility is an hour and a half away. So now you got to start weighing is it, you know, what's the cost to load this thing on the truck, go an hour and a half, two hours
in one direction, you know, um, is it worth it or do we just pay the increased fee and go down to New Bedford? Um, so, uh, >> I I yeah, I guess I I I was certainly not clear, Matt. I was I was saying that
that if the u uh ju just pick a number. Let's say we're now charging 15 bucks for somebody to drop off a tire. If the cost goes to $22.50, 50 cents, why not just charge it and and balance
that budget or a budget line item? >> There's a fine line. We got to be careful. Um, we start charging too much for certain things, you're going to find them in the woods on the side of the road. Um, and people, we see it a lot with mattresses. Uh, people don't want
to pay the disposal fee. So, they just chuck them off onto the side of the road. I'm sure all of us have seen that one time or another. So we try to balance it where we don't run, you know, we don't >> run into a situation where we're just turning people are saying, "Whoa, my god." And just chuck them, you know, down the side of the road. But go ahead,
Tanya. I'm sorry. You were about to >> I just maybe Al didn't hear clearly. We just raised the fees effective January 1st for tires and other bulk items to help offset the cost. But again, not maybe not as much as you would like, but
that that balancing act. We did we have we voted at our not this meeting but two weeks ago to raise the fees effective January 1st. >> Well, thank you. I a I didn't hear it and B I don't know what the number is. All right. But but I don't either. >> I'm just trying to I was just trying to
uh you know offset. Okay. I'm good. >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Okay. All right. Um one one left. >> Go. Animal control, right? >> Yeah. It's pretty simple. We we just, you
know, staff was 3% increase. Um and vehicle repair, that's a aging vehicle and the um it seems it needs more frequent repairs. So, we just we asked for an $800 increase in uh for that line item and Jim had said okay. The thing with that is we do have a capital
request in for a new truck. If we do get, you know, granted that vehicle, if we get approved for that, then we could possibly reduce that back down uh back to where it was. >> Okay. >> And uh always my favorite question of
the year. So you have you have a animal control officer and then did you got some extra help, right? >> We did for a while. And do you not have that now or >> we don't and um I interviewed we so we had somebody that stayed on and it was
looking promising was you know over a month and then when we brought her in to sign up you know do all the paperwork to become a town employee she decided uh that this is not what she wanted to do. >> Um so we've been interviewing candidates
you know one or two a week. Um, but it's it's a hard position to fill being being on call part time. >> U, but we did interview somebody today that was very promising and we I believe, you know, I think we're going to move forward with this person and um
see how this goes. >> Okay. And you've still got the dollars in your budget. So hopefully you can find somebody. So that was had been the challenge the last couple of years, right? So it looks like you still have the dollars in there. So >> yep. >> Okay, great. Good news.
Okay, >> uh we we have the dollars, but they're not a lot of dollars. Again, the same refrain you've heard before. It's hard to fill a position that's not particularly well paid, >> right? >> But we're trying. We're really trying.
And it is very time consuming to go through this, bring somebody on board, they back out. We've had a few people who, you know, sort of interview and then they maybe not. It's it takes a lot of time and so Matt, you know, has a
limited amount of time. Um, but he he's he's been interviewing so. >> Okay, >> great. Any other questions on the ACL or anything else for >> I don't see no one's hands up.
All right. Well, Matt and Tanya, thank you for coming in. Appreciate it. Um, I made a couple of notes on some things and we'll see where things go as our budget unfolds in the season. >> Thank you very much. >> Well, thank you guys for your time. I
appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. All right. Thanks. All right. Take care. >> All right. So our next budget we have is shellfish and marine services and William Chase I think is here.
>> I am here madam chair. Can you hear >> here? There we go. Hi. Nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you all. Uh thank you for having me. Good evening to you and the board. Uh and happy holidays. Um this is my first uh run at the windmill,
if you will. This is my first budget as a department head. Um, and I'm having said that I want to first of all thank Jim Hard and Al Le for guiding me through this. Um, it's
some easy to assume that I am a rank novice at all of this and their help has been uh extremely helpful to me and to the department going forward. Um, this is a kind of a different animal, isn't it? This this is a as a guy who
has not been involved in a mun municipal finance, this one strikes me as kind of the oddball. And I say that because the majority of the monies that fund this department come from user fees. And then there's a small portion that comes from taxpayer
money. That's the shelfish budget, if you will. And so the two of those combined uh basically make up all the funding for this department. Um so I set out some of you know I I took
over right after right at the beginning of the fiscal year and so I had Chris's previous budget to work with which was sound. But I think when you put two individuals as department heads you're going to get two different philosophies.
Um, mine is a little bit more, I guess, expansive is the word. Um, I see the river and the responsibilities that come with it as daunting and along with that needs to
come the money to back it up to back up that philosophy. So the first thing that uh we did in this department uh Rick Smith and I were very much involved with seeking out
comps. In other words, we wanted to know in the user fee world how much you would pay in the adjoining south coastal towns and we're talking about Marian Mapoet for Haven Dartmouth. What do they charge for private mooring
fees? What do they charge for waterway user fees? What do they charge for commercial fees? And what we found was that where we are in relation to those other four towns was a fraction of what they are all charging. I would say
probably onethird if you wanted to look for a fraction. So we set out to increase those user fees. We went to the Harvard advisory committee. Um we discussed it with Jim. Uh and then we took it to the select board. There was
obviously public notice, public hearing, and all of this was approved. And I think where that takes us right now, it doesn't bring us up to par with the other towns, and I have the numbers to back that up, but it does make us
somewhat, I don't know if respectable is the word, we're in the ballpark anyway at this point. And so from those user fees, my estimation uh of those increases was a little over $80,000.
Now, I understand the reality of it all. We're not going to get $80,000 in this department, then we're not asking for it. Obviously, there are other places that money has to go. Um, but I think after submitting my version to Jim and then having Jim shoot back what he
thinks it should be, I have no qualms with those numbers. I I thought at one point, you know, let me jump in and see if I can't argue this one and argue that one and maybe get 10,000 more here or there. I think when you look at the size of the increase in dollars and cents
that Jim has put forth here, >> I I think it would be Oh, I don't know what the word is. It's It's not a place I want to go. I I think we're happy with the sizable increase that we do have from those user fee
increases. So, I I have again I have no qualms with what these numbers are right now. So, I do need some clarification and I will get to that. I think it's important to lay out a couple of the uh projects that we're
working on that we're about to uh integrate into the department and a lot of it is to get rid of snail mail to put it simply. Um the amount of mail that came and went from this little building
would make any post office blush. just the amount of envelopes coming in and the amount going out that gets expensive at 74 cents an envelope when you consider they've got to go both ways sometimes four ways. So we set out to to turn this into an
electronic permitting department. To that end we have entered into an agreement with a company called Links Log. They are up in Norwell. Uh so they are local I guess um and uh they have
been very helpful uh with us we are going to launch this on the 15th of January. So all of those all of you who have votes for next season uh that website is where you will go there will be one more
mailing going out to let everybody know that you've got to go online. Um, to that end, I I think that particular move will save us between $4 and $6,000 a year. Rick Smith and I started adding up
because Rick unfortunately had the burden of dealing with most of the administrative uh paperwork this summer. Um, I think we lost count at around $8,000 between the hours required and the postage and envelopes and everything
else. um link log should cost this department about 4,500 bucks a year. So I think from the efficiency point of view and just a simple dollars and cents point of view, this is a smart move for us.
So you'll be hearing more about that uh in the future. Uh another thing that is on the um the budget here is a kiosk for the state boat ramp. Currently, the way the system is set up
is that if you go over and use the ramp, you walk over to a little lock box, you pull out an envelope, you stick five bucks in it, you take a red tag out, you stick it on your dash so the police know you've paid, and you're all set. But what has to happen here from this
department, we've got to go over to the ramp every single day, collect the envelopes, open them all up. That's an experience. I got to tell you that. You never know what you're going to find in some of these things. Uh and then we count it here. I count it. Rick counts
it. The girls at Treasury count it. The time involved is is just it's just too much. So, we are doing our homework and our due diligence to come up with the best kiosk that we can find
and have that installed over at the state ramp. So those monies, but ideally we don't get to see a dollar. It all gets deposited electronically. It all goes to Treasury electronically. Sue Brighten is is involved in this as well.
Uh so she knows what's coming here. So those two projects I think streamline the department and through that efficiency make it cheaper to operate
the rest of the items here. Um I mean I don't know if you want to just uh go down one line at a time or not madam chair but um and again I have no qualms with what these numbers are. Um, a a couple of points that I should make
in general, and I made these with Al as well when we met at town hall. We have a fleet of Yamaha outputs, and they're all relatively new. Three of them are brand new that were approved in a warrant at last May's top meeting.
But because they're Yamahas, they have to be serviced by Westport Marine. So, you all probably all know Drew. uh he gets $160 an hour for service. And look, those those guys are some of
the best in my view. Um so I have no problem going to them, but when you apply that rate of labor to a municipal budget, you've got to be a little careful. And I'll give you an example. We just brought the uh relay boat in for his 100
hour check. This is about maybe a month, five weeks ago. We dropped it off at 9:00 in the morning. We picked it up the next morning at 9:00. The bill was $1,031. That was for its 100 hour check. Now,
this is just like you get your oil change. You've got to have these engines serviced u on a regular time. >> They had to clean the bottom because there's no bottom paint on these boats, unfortunately. We will address that later.
Um, but just the oil change in the service, that $100 regular service was $831. We have six of these that have to go in annually. So, that is my biggest concern. If one
of these engines was to be damaged beyond repair at some point, the replacement cost is uh substantial. So, I I do keep in mind that, you know, the labor cost to repair and maintain
everything here is going up. I'll give you one more example. So, I just bought a new truck at Alden GMC. Pretty good dealership in my opinion. Just took it back for its first oil
change. They previously got $160 an hour for their technicians. They just upped it to 200 200 bucks an hour to get your vehicle fixed. So the point I'm trying
to make uh to the committee is that it's not just the cost of the parts, the cost of labor to get to execute all of these mandatory uh checks um is is really getting up
there. Um, but if I could sum all this up, when you look at an increase of $52,000 over the previous year, I think any department head would be jumping for joy. Uh, so with with the understanding of
course that these are user fees and not taxpayer dollars being placed in here. So this is the approach that I've taken for the department. raise the user fees as much as we can, as much as reasonable uh to help fund this department and
offset some of these increased expenses while providing a little bit more maybe a lot more coverage to the river itself during the season and trying to streamline the workings of the department as far as we can. >> That was a great sum up. Thank you. Um,
thank you for that um, update. Does anyone have any questions for William? >> No, I think I think you did a great job. >> Oh, go ahead. Zach's got a question. >> That's all I was gonna say for your first uh, budget presentation. You did a great job. >> Yeah.
>> Thank you, Zach. Very kind. >> Yeah. And you know, I I agree and support the, you know, raising the user fees for the users that use the service. Um, that makes perfect sense. You have the ability to do that. So,
>> that makes sense. >> Go ahead, Duncan. You've you're uh you're up. You got a hot mic there. >> Yeah. I just wanted to say uh as somebody who's been on the river um for 25 or 30 years, really impressed with
everything you're doing and uh I think you're on the right track. >> Thank you very much, Don. You know, that validation is so important to us. You know, we we jumped in here right in Fourth of July weekend. Who the hell does that, you know, and it was baptism
by fire? And just getting through that, just that initial weekend was huge. But to hear something like that from a guy like Duncan, that is that is uh most appreciated, sir. >> Thank you. Go ahead, Cindy.
>> Uh hi, Bill. It's Cindy here. So, um you know, we we talked a little bit about with the other departments some of their future needs, and you've touched upon that a little bit. I did see the uh other evening uh one night last week,
you went before the uh historical commission in preparation to perhaps go to um the CPC that your um your office, if you want to call it that, your shed um is in in desperate need of some
repair. I mean, some maintenance work. It's not just the river work that you need to uh deal with. uh you know, you and your staff also have an office that uh you have you have to try to work out
of and I would hardly call that a a place that's barely habitable. Um certainly not in the winter hours and barely in the summer. You don't really have much heat in the winter and certainly not much um uh clean air in
the uh or cool air in the summer. Um, can you tell us a little bit about what some of those future issues might be going forward in addition to some of the boat issues you have that you you're you're going to need some some hardscape work?
>> Yes. Um, well, I think you're absolutely right, Cindy. Uh, the building needs help and I we had um just this afternoon uh we had Ralph down to do an inspection on the building. Now, it was kind of a cursory look, if you will. Um, but we
discovered that basically the floor, and I'm in the shack right now. This is it. The floor is basically plywood laid over joist, which the the whole building sits on six concrete pillars that are joined by longitudinals, I
guess you'd call them. But it looks like the floor now uh has some issues. So, that's not something we calculated in. But to your point, I started where I thought I should start first, which was with CIPC.
Um, and we asked for some money for this project. Uh, I've gotten a couple of estimates right around the $45 $50,000 range. Uh, not nearly as much as I had asked for with CIPC.
So, that process is ongoing. All I know at this point is that that request is on their number one list. I don't know where we're going with that. I know that the number ones add up to more money than there is available.
Um, and then I figured, well, if if that didn't fly, I should probably have uh something else to to fall back on. And just speaking to some of the folks, I mean, being down here at the point, you get a lot of good advice, let's say. Um,
and I know that CPC's got money available, so I applied. Um, and that is ongoing. There's a meeting Thursday, a virtual meeting with CPC Thursday, which I will be in on just to kind of bring them up to speed with where we are. But I tried to lay out as
much as I could uh with the historical commission because obviously they've got to weigh on weigh in on this as well. So I took the two routes to try to do my best to try to get some funding here. Now
the question here and you I think what you're alluding to is what do you see going forward? It may well be that this building as it currently exists is not the building that the department
needs three, five, 10 years down the road. I can almost guarantee 10 years. It it just will have outlived its use. So I I think at this point rather than going into a huge
$2 $300,000 project to get a new building, I'm just trying to identify whether or not the building itself is worth putting that money into. Because for instance, if we found something in the in the floor joist, you'd probably
say, you know what, you know, it's band-aid on a lipstick on a pig, as some people like to say, right? So, we don't want to go down that road. So, we're looking into it as deeply as we can before we say, "Yeah, okay,
thanks. We'll get the job done." So assuming everything underneath is okay and it's repairable on top and we've got roof shingles missing. Um the the trim is rotted. The shingles outside are curled up. Um it's drafty as hell in
here. Uh Rick and I do a pretty good job so far. Uh this winter is staying relatively warm in here. I think our electric bill is going to reflect that, but that's the cost of doing business, I'm afraid. So that that's a big deal. The other and
not to drag this on, the other big issue we have here is the planking on the west dock. >> Um I've spoken to Wayne Manchester about this. I think most of you know Wayne. Uh certainly if you have a dock on the river, you probably know Wayne. And uh I
asked them come down and look at it because what we've done so far is that we you know there would be a dozen two dozen planks and they would just kind of get randomly replaced. It's just been a peacemeal approach. I think we may be
falling behind on that. So I asked uh Wayne if you come down have a look at it. Give us a number to work with and let's see if we can get it done that way. Um, the problem with it is that it is so labor intense.
Now, these these planks are 16. They're 3x6 by 16. They're a little cumbersome to Well, I mean, they're nailed down like Armageddon is coming. So, it takes a lot just to get the old ones up. You know, you literally need a chainsaw to cut
into them, pull them up, and then replace them. Uh, so I don't have a number from Wayne other than the fact that he said there are 618 planks on the western dock in varying conditions. So when when you look ahead
to the biggest expenses, those two, the shack and that. All right. I should I want to touch on one more thing before uh before I take the next question. And then it goes to looking ahead. We have to replace our pumpout boat. It's
been hauled out. It just about sank about month. I came down one day and was laying 45 degrees over. Uh it's just tired. it had to come out of the water. Uh we have a another boat that we can uh rehab, which we intend to do right after the first of the year. We're going to
start that project. You'll see that here on the u on the budget that I sent along that I got back from Jim. We can afford to do that. Uh but I think that boat eventually would have to be replaced as well. There is some grant
money available through the Clean Vessel Act, the CVA as we call it uh to the $256,000. Um but a brand new um 23 foot pumpout boat uh delivered ready to go is
$122,000. So my thinking was pending your approval of course uh that this should probably be a warrant article in addition to everything else. But th those are the three big uh issues that I have Cindy that I think that
>> a monetary point of view are the big focuses. >> Ju just one follow-up question on that last uh on that last subject. Um have you been increasing the fees on your pumpout boat to reflect the need for new um new equipment?
>> No, we cannot charge fees for that. >> Oh, you cannot. >> We cannot. So, uh, it it's, you know, we do have a contract with CVA to the $215,000. So, the monies that we spend on that, the salary for the guys who operate the
boat in summertime is reimburseable up to $15,000. >> So, it's not like it's just it's it's not a line item in the budget. it's operating expense and then most of that comes back
>> and you cannot charge the the the rationale behind that is that people would end up just dumping out in the free water if they had to pay. They would just choose to just dump themselves rather than wait for the boat. >> Why? I don't think there's an excuse for
breaking state, federal, and local law. But your point is a valid one, >> right? your point Isabelle when I think to address that, let me give you just a little bit of context. Right after we started, there was a gap between when Chris and
Gary left and Rick and I took over and we did not get to the pump out vote for about a week. They were outside the door saying, "Hey, you got to get over here." And you know, we straighten that out in pretty short order. >> But the pumpout boat is a very popular
vessel, I have to tell you. Oh, I would think so. >> So, I get the sense >> I get the sense that most people abide by that law. >> Yeah, >> you're always going to have a few misguidance. There's no doubt about it. Uh, but I think most of the people here in Westport abide by that and we're
doing our best to give them the service when we can. >> So, >> but it's a but it's a state law that you cannot charge for the service. >> Yes, that's part of the CVA grant for this. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you,
Bill. Very, very uh informative. Thank you. >> Go ahead, Al. >> Yeah, Bill, very very quickly, what what's the current rate uh per foot charged for commercial boats at on the West?
>> It just went to 40 40 bucks. It was 30 and that was part of the package. Al, we they were not exempt from all this. They went from 30 to 40. So percentage- wise, that's that's a pretty good hike. >> It's a pretty good hike, but but but on the flip side, it's a it's it's less
than a third of what uh other dockages in Westport. >> It is. And you know, I I I know that I'm not not going to make any friends of my fisherman friends when I when I say this, but there is no commercial uh
activity on and off boats uh that that that generate money into the local economy. I mean, Lear is not not doing it anymore except except for the oysters. U but but all the rest of the stuff is is being shipped out. The
reefers come in two o'clock in the morning, they leave, they go to wherever and and and the uh you know the the boats that are docking there that aren't generating any additional money into the economy are paying less than a third of
what the going rate is. I'm not blaming you. I'm just I'm just I just want to make that point that it is a pretty damn good deal. Mhm. >> Oh, I you're preaching to the choir, my friend. Um, that is just part and parcel
to the whole fee structure in the town. >> It's crazy. >> You know, it's not You could make the case that there are other examples that are even more pointed than that one. >> Oh, I can, but I won't do it online.
But I, you know, I being one of these guys for so many years, uh, obviously they have a place in my heart. Um, not that I don't think they should pay their fair share. I just thought a 33% increase was was substantial in and of itself.
>> Yep. Okay. No, I again, I'm not I'm not blaming you or pushing you, but but I just want to make the the clear point that they're paying no they're paying far less. We're talking about other fees, whether it's tires for an additional five bucks a tire or whatever
it might be, but yet there's $100 a foot for a commercial boat that is not being paid based on what the um the fee structure is within the town. And then we're looking at replacing uh 600 700 uh
you know, planks on the west dock. It's It's So anyway, I I I've I've said what I I needed to say, but there'll be more to be said about that. It It's just not right. It's just not right. >> I could not agree more, Al. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, it looks like um we
don't have any more questions. And um thank you for your first budget presentation. You did terrific. So, you were very helpful and informative. So, yeah. >> Nice job. Nice job. >> Can I just throw in one thing? Sure.
>> Jim had mentioned this in his um his um narrative about this. So I don't know what would have to happen, but I've essentially got two budgets here, right? Shellfish, marine services.
I have to do two payrolls because half my salary comes from marine services, half comes from shellfish. Same thing with Rick. Uh, is there a way we can combine these uh to make it a little bit more
efficient? I mean, I'm not looking for an answer now, but I'm just saying hopefully we can talk about this in the future and see if we can't combine these two in some way that works better than it does right now. This is rather cumbersome and it's not just the
salaries have to be split, it's all the expenses as well, >> right? So, >> yeah, I think that's a great question for the new town administrator and maybe the town accountant um that they could start that process. I think they would have more information than than we could have on some of the legalities and
things that need to be done, but >> Okay. All right. Very good. I'll just by uh I'll just close by saying thank you to all of you, especially to Jim and to Al uh for guiding me through this. Um I most appreciate >> Great.
>> Thank you. Thank you so much. >> Nice job. >> Thank you. Nice job. Thank you. >> All right. So, our next budgets are the town hall, the town hall annex, and the cemetery. And Jim Hartnett is here to
uh present those. >> I believe I know he stepped. Oh, he's back. Okay. Hey, Jim. >> Your last time presenting these budgets. So we have a selectman's budget. Um town
hall annex and cemetery, right? Um selectman budget is pretty straightforward. Um salaries uh just the negotiated increases as well as the contractual um salary account. Uh the other line
items over time, education, reimbursement, longevity, those are pretty much contractual as well. Um, and I will say that, you know, we try to plan ahead when we know that somebody's leaving or um has the potential to leave. And, you know, we did that. In this case, we had put $50,000 uh
additional into the salary in FY26 for this fiscal year um because we we knew that um the border sec border selectment secretary was retiring and as well as myself and we wanted to make sure that we had sufficient funds to kind of reorganize the department a little bit
as well as um pay for another new town administrator. And it's, you know, every position I've been in, you know, every major position that I hired throughout the years, it's not a good thing, but normally when the person leaves in order to get somebody else in, the salary goes
up a bit. It's uh it's not fair. It's just the way it works. Um >> um so anyway, that's the salary overall. The salary from FY26 to 27 is going down by about $15,000 because we were able to finalize those numbers for the next year. Um the
expense accounts are also going down a bit. Um you know not not the major. We went from 351 down I'm sorry 451 down to 435. That's the overall budget. I'm sorry. The expenses are about the same. 52 and
then 51300. So there's really no changes there. That's pretty much it for the select board. My budget's not very exciting. you know, >> I don't see and I don't see five hands raised either. So, I think
>> All right, you can do the annex. Go ahead. >> Town town hall and the annex again salary is just contractual. Um, the only thing I would note in this budget is the electricity we bumped up from 29 to I
have in my recommendation $50,000. Um, and that's mainly because we've gone to the heat pumps here in town hall. So, they'll be online for next year and it's going to take about four to six months to get our uh net metering credits um adjusted. So, we're hoping the net
meeting credits that we have will offset those costs. So, we won't need all that funding for next year, but we just don't know exactly what we're going to need. Years ago, just give you a quick history. Years ago, the town got in a contract uh to buy solar credits. uh we
overbought at the time. So we're we're buying more solar than we've been able to use. As we use and generate more um or need more electricity with a new high school that's that's generating quite of electricity over what we had a few years ago. Town Hall with the heat pumps is
going to generate more electricity. We're able to use some of those credits that have been on standby for years. So we're taking advantage of those credits that were um not being used in the past. And I would have Nicole's explain that in detail because she's the she's the
one that's been dealing with that. It's not an easy thing to uh manage. We readjust those credits every year based on the electrical bills and it's um yeah, it's a tedious process. So that's pretty much the town hall annex. Um
yeah, and the town hall cemetery department is probably even easier. Uh it's just salary salary increases. We actually had pretty much a full complement of staff for most of the year. Um, which is the first time we've had that in the last since I've been
here. Uh, and they've done a a great job. We've had very few complaints this year with cemeteries. We've been able to get the grass cut, the monuments up, no issues with the burials. Um, so they've done a nice job. The expense accounts pretty much similar to last year. We're
going up about $5,000. Um, and that's mainly for the software. So, they had a private software um this was done through CPC years ago that had the uh cemetery information online.
Um that software was no longer being supported by the platform that it was on and it was just the amount of information that was on that system. Um being kind of in a nonprofit private hands, we really felt the need to bring
it inhouse. So, we we went out for our proposals and we had some sites come in and we were able to migrate all that data onto this new software. It's been up and running in the cemetery department and it's been uh working out great. We're still working on the web-based application to get it similar
to what was available to the public with the previous software. We have another meeting this week and um hopefully by next month we will have that up and running. But the important stuff is all the data that was there was able to migrate to the new software. It's just a matter of uh tweaking the web page so that uh we
can access the information that was accessed previously. And that's pretty much all I have. >> Thanks, Jim. Go ahead. Cindy's got her her hand up. >> Um Jim, where do we stand with the uh expansion, the cemetery expansion?
So last year I think we had roughly 550,000 I believe through a town meeting one article from free cash and funds from the um perpetual care account to do the expansion. The issue is we had requested the money uh before we had the
final estimate. When the final estimate for work came in it was up over 900,000. So we're on the CIPC for additional funding this year. Um we need to expand. Um we don't have a I I don't think we have a choice. I think there is some debate
as to how much we should expand. Should we do the uh two major plots or should we do one? There's some economy scale to do two at the same time. It's one mobilization. It's one contract. Everything's done at once. Uh but it's it's a cost. Um I think last year when
we looked at this, we had roughly 250 plots that were available. We sell about 75 on average a year. So we had, you know, another year or two those are going to be gone. It takes two years to uh prepare a new section. You have to dig out that section. You have to remove
all the stones. You have to sift through all the gravel. Then you have to put it back, let it settle for a year or two before you can start um using it for burials. >> Do you know how competitive we are? Um I know a few years back we increased the
fee um the plot fee. Um, are we still competitive? Are we still behind in in the in the fees that we charge for that? >> I think two years ago we're pretty close to other communities. Um, you know, having not raised them in two years, my guess is we're behind just a little bit,
but I don't think we're way out of line. I'd have to check. >> All right. Thank you. >> Uh, thanks. Thanks. Oh, NY's got her hand up. Go ahead, Nancy. >> Thank you. Um, Jim, so you talked about
the the cemetery and that you had to migrate the information to another, you know, program. Uh, we've heard from the hub master about, you know, the price of, you know, sending out um, you know, letters for fees and postage and trying
to get that up and running uh, through a program automated. We've heard about the board of health and how if they get things up on a program and they're able to use computers to send out invoices and whatnot, it would save them the manh
hours that they're utilizing. So why are all these different departments all putting in their budget for software? Is there something that when we have free cash, a one-time purchase of a townwide program that
allows for all of these departments to digitize and have the public be able to access them that way? Has that is that something that's >> So, so we've done a couple of things, right? Most of the digitizing uh most of the initial startups for all these
software has been either through grants or CPC funding if it's historical. So the actual startup and the actual purchase of these um the migration and the software themselves has been either through grants. There's a couple of exceptions, but either through grants or CPC funding. It's the yearly licensing
that um is is what you're seeing in most of these budgets. Um like in this one, the $4,000 is yearly license just to maintain the software we did. Um and I can get you a copy of it. I sent it around with one of my reports last month on all the software
upgrades that have been done over the last couple of years that are currently in process. Um, it's been quite substantial. You know, the departments have really put the effort and every time you bring in new software, this migrating the data over, resetting your forms, adjusting your feeds to to fit
the formats of the software is lengthy and tedious process. Once you get it up, it's great. Um, I think you save time and I think you save money in the long run, but it's it's uh when everybody's busy and you ask them to take on a whole new task, it's it's a challenge. And I think that's what the board of health is doing now, right? So, they've had the
software there probably for six or seven months um but migrating their data over u readjusting all their forms so it's compatible with the online software um and just restructuring their department a bit so that uh they use the online
stuff. It takes time. Um >> so is the software different in every single department? >> So we have a permitiz which will be for planning building um conservation board of health uh select board office can
also do licensing zoning board can use that as well. So the permitiz kind of takes care of all development departments. Um the accounting and the treasurer have just upgraded their software. The treasuries have been using Zobrio. Um the accountant just upgraded to use that. I think there's a different
name now, but it's the same software. Okay. >> Um we've had issues in the past with compatibility between the accountant and the treasures softwares. They're different. So we never had a good bridge to transfer the data from one to the other so that you can reconcile easily. They you know they would downloaded to
spreadsheets and compare the spreadsheets and it is just it it was not efficient. So they've upgraded their software. They're in the process of doing that now. the accountant has transferred her software over in July. Um and the treasurer um they're waiting on the software company to finish their
work and that should go online in February. So yes, we've >> so the treasurer and the accountant's office up until now that it's happening have not been able to share information. They have to download it and then manually. So this is the type of
software stuff that I'm talking about is just and it's difficult, right? because we have everybody's at different stages and nobody's on the somebody's ahead of somebody else technology wise and somebody else is behind and then it's the staff and their ability to use the
technologies because it's all great to have but if nobody knows how to use it that doesn't work. Um I know that some departments are resistant to the technology, some departments embrace the technology. Um, it just seems to me that
we're in 2025 and now we're just got a software program up for accounting to share with the treasurer's office. So, I just don't know moving forward. I know you're on your way out whether this is something that the town should be looking into to consolidate that
technology so that everybody gets on the same page at the, you know, at the same time. And maybe sometimes my experience is some of those licenses become cheaper when you have more departments using that particular
software. So it's it's just a thought. Thank you. >> You're absolutely right and I think we're heading in that direction now. When I say they weren't compatible, it wasn't an easy bridge, right? They've certainly reconciled throughout the years with, you know, every month, but it's um it can be done easier when the
software is compatible. Will the schools be now reconciled once that's occurring? Are the school is the schools still operating under a different system? >> So my understanding is the schools are operating on this new system as well. >> Okay. Um so >> I I want to confirm that but yeah I
don't Yeah, I just wanted to because I knew that there was a difference between the schools who the billing goes through the town and they were using different programs as well. So hopefully everybody's on the same group. All right. Thank you. And I know I know
you'll miss me, Jim, but um good luck in your retirement. >> And Jim, just to to also just to follow up with NY's point, too, that uh we'll have Keith, of course, come in to do his IT budget, but Keith Novo is not a
full-time employee of the town. So the town has limited resources, IT resources to be have somebody that champions that. And I agree. I think I saw the select board meeting where you presented all
the initiatives that it has done. And that's a phenomenal amount of things to do with someone who's limited in time. But um we definitely should get our hands on that. And certainly when Keith comes in to talk about the IT budget, he should definitely um talk about all the
things he has been able to do. Uh many more things to do, but he's done a tremendous amount with his limited resources. Go ahead, Al. >> I two quickies. Um, Nancy, I am
you kind of stole my thunder a little bit about integrating school budget and town budget because, you know, there's there's a lot of synchronicity going on between the two and uh and we are, you
know, the school budget is 50 plus% of the school, you know, of of the town budget and there's a lot integration between the two especially when it comes to benefits and etc etc. So so you know I I just want to echo
your thoughts but I have a bigger issue and that is to thank Jim. I mean I really you know in in my heart thank you for everything you've done for
all these years. appreciate. >> I'm actually getting choked up a little bit, Jim. You've done you've done >> you've done yman's work. >> You're well loved and we just want to thank you or I want to thank you. The
rest of you can weigh in. >> Thank you. >> Absolutely. Yeah. You know, Jim, I think you know, when you were in the on the planning planner at the planning board and you had interviewed for the town administrator, I know the planning board was so sad and upset that you could
never be replaced for that department and um you know, then you came along to the town administrator role and excelled and exceeded in that, too. So, um yeah, you've been with the town for a long time and we're definitely going to miss all your knowledge. you have so much
knowledge in your head from all all of what you've done. So I I echo Al for sure. We'll miss you. >> I appreciate it. And and the planner position was filled by somebody very capable. So >> yeah, and absolutely. And then
>> I've had a couple meetings with Chris and uh he seems very good. He's very excited about working here. So I think he's gonna I think he's gonna do well. >> Good. So, so, so Jim, just just as a as a quickie, after six months of of uh of
not doing anything, um I'm going to knock on your door about the historical society, but that's that's another conversation for another day. >> No, we will actually be >> interested in Yeah, >> we will actually knock on his door to come and sit on the finance committee. They
>> Oh, even better. >> No, he knows too many. He knows too many skeletons. >> Be a good idea. >> And likewise, I appreciate you guys all volunteers and it's incredible the amount of work that the volunteers in this town do. It's this town doesn't run
without the volunteers. So So thank you and I appreciate working with you. You guys have been great. >> Well, thanks. Enjoy enjoy enjoy the rest of of of your retirement, you know, or whatever whatever the next step brings.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, Jim, we're not totally letting you off the hook quite yet. You're almost done, but um and I think you you had presented uh a very quick update to the select board at the last meeting and we have a copy of it. So you I don't think you need to go
over that with us. But um just in terms of timing, you're you're you're set to present the first draft of the budget at the next select board meeting. Is that that correct? On the >> Yes. So the 15th. >> The 15th. >> Okay.
>> And that'll be the first roll up with all the departments um being as you ex have them to be. The revenue of course is is still up for grabs in terms of the state revenue. We have no idea what's happening there. Um
I'm sure insurance and the diamond assessments have no idea yet. So there's going to be some big big placeholders, but that'll give us the first sense of of where you're going. >> And that'll be you'll be able to turn that over to the new town administrator. >> Yeah. And I think by the end of January,
once we get the governor's numbers, that kind of locks in the the bigger numbers for us. Um, so you should have a good idea by the end of January. >> Yep. >> Things stand. >> Yeah, I think that's good. >> When's your last When's your last day
officially or unofficially? >> Either Christmas Eve or the day after Christmas. We'll see how >> Yeah, we're just trying to wrap up a few things and I did meet with Chris yesterday and we went through the whole budget. So, uh yeah, he's getting on it
and I think uh I think he'll do well. >> Great. >> Great. >> Westport was fortunate to get him. There's not a lot of applicants out there and uh he's a little younger than me and he's ambitious. So, >> hopefully we can move things along.
Yeah, great. >> All right, folks. >> Thank you, Jim. Appreciate your appreciate it. >> Thanks, Jim. >> All right, >> thank you, Jim. >> All right. Uh, so we just sailed right past our fiscal budget discussion
update, so that's all good. Um, item three on the agenda was if anybody has any committee alias on updates they wanted to um talk about. No, >> no, no. I I'm I'm I'm going to be meeting with the uh with the fire chief
in the next uh week or 10 days just to wrap it up, but you know, they know better than I, you know, what their needs are. And uh so that's my update. >> Okay, great. Um just I just want to go backwards for
one second on the budget. So I I took some quick notes. Uh, of course we'll have minutes, but our minutes don't um reflect the entire conversation of what we talk about here. So they would um but I'm going to do some bullet points of
kind of items that we all kind of got hung up on a little bit and so that can help us as we get into January and February because we tend to lose sight after we do this 15 20 times with budgets of of where things stood and
sometimes the earlier budgets we tend to have forgotten and it's the more recent stuff that sticks in our brain. So, um, I'll put some quick notes together and then share that and then if anybody wants to add to it. So, let's kind of have a collective list. Um, you know,
and if anybody has any other issues that come up, I think it's it's helpful to raise them now as we do the budgets. So, um, we do everything we can to be collaborative with the select board uh, as they're putting together their
budget. We're we're kind of all working together for feedback. So the the goal is to have one budget if we can that the select board support and the finance committee support. That doesn't always happen. But um you know as as an example
if we felt a position should be funded and Jim didn't fund it. Those are discussion items that we'll talk about with the select board to say here's what we're thinking and to you know try to gauge what what their thoughts are. So
um it's not an us versus them budget. We're trying to do everything together. So, anybody that has issues with anything that comes up in the budget, let's get our list together. So, that's we've got some talking items for So, I started it. So, uh we'll see how
how we do as we get into weekly budgets that become hard for um for some of us that also have full-time jobs that can't always do this. Um all right so so no other leison on updates I see
which is fine. Um so no the next item is to approve the minutes of November 18th 2025. Does anybody have a chance is has everybody had a chance to review them so
we can make a motion to approve? >> Yes. and motion to approve. >> Second. >> Yep. >> Thank you. Is there any discussion on those minutes? >> Nope. >> Not at 8:18 at night. All right. Um,
nope. Claire sailing. No. >> All right. So, I'll do a roll call to approve and then it's Al Ellie's >> Ellie's eye. >> Uh, Zach Lew. >> Zach Lew. I >> Nancy >> Nancy St. Cross. Duncan >> Duncan Law I
>> Cindy >> Cindy Brown I >> Garystein >> and myself Karen Rouse I I didn't forget anybody right? >> No. Okay, great. Um, all right. So,
budget meetings upcoming. Just, um, it sounds like Gary, um, you've got the highway department coming uh, requested for what was the date that you said sent me an email on? >> Uh, what was the 27th? >> On the 27th. And then that's great.
Thank you. And is Chris coming in or are you going to do it on behalf of Chris? >> Uh, I might do it on behalf of Chris. I um, he might he might attend with me. Yeah, it'd be great if he could join us. We haven't seen him in a while, but um and Nancy, did you get in touch with the
beach committee at all any? >> No success yet, but I'm still trying. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. So, >> Karen Karen, I will not I will not be at the meeting on the first week in January. >> Okay. >> I'll send you an email, but I just
wanted to uh while I'm thinking about it, I I we're going to be out of town. Okay, that is helpful when we get close to the the week of the meeting to send me the email because I'll forget between now and a month from now. But thank you. >> Okay,
>> I appreciate that. Thank you. And so just uh so I'll I'll continue on future agendas to put the whole schedule just in case um any member of the general public wants to come to our meeting. Anybody's welcome to if they have questions about a particular department
so they know uh what our schedule is. So that's all posted on the agenda that was published for tonight's meeting and we'll continue to do that. So we'll add to that the highway is the week of the is January 27th. Um okay and the next four so the next
meetings are January 6th, January 13th, January 20th and 27th. Those are all budget meetings. And then on February 10th is also a budget meeting and that's for the Westport community schools. And um so the month of January is pretty much all budgets unless anything else
comes up for an agenda item. So if anything else comes up, you can email me and we can add it to the agenda. But I have no other topics within 48 hours. No correspondence. >> Karen, one thing. Are we going to have Diamond in? Are we gonna have Diamond in
uh to speak on? I mean, I think it'd be this would be a good opportunity because they got a brand new school they're building. They got I mean, I don't know. Did we hear from him last year? I can't remember the last time we had the mint. >> I I had been in contact with them last year. Um and then the scheduling didn't
seem to line up. Um but I do have the contact information for our representatives so we could um we could arrange to have them come in. >> I mean, we have no control over that budget, but I think it's it'd be good to hear from, you know, they're in a building phase. You know, where are they
with this and Yeah. right how it affects the students in in Westwood. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. I think that that you know we we we tried to last year, right? And it just didn't line up. But the the good part is if we get through our budgets as
I anticipate we will in January and then early February that opens us up to have availability. We we certainly don't know what warrant articles are going to be that will then take our our collective time there. Um, but we certainly can should be able to
squeeze in diamond. >> Okay, thanks. >> Great. Thank you for that. >> Good idea. Yeah, >> thank you. Anything else? Anyone? >> Motion to adjourn. >> All right. >> Second. >> Okay, I will roll call. So, Gary?
>> Yes. >> Second. >> Uh, yes. >> Ali Z. Nancy >> Nancy Stanton Claws I >> Zack >> Zach Leu I >> Cindy
>> Cindy Brown I >> Karen's eye. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Merry Christmas everyone.