##VIDEO ID:J4ns4m4eYnM## welcome everyone today is January 21st 2025 this is the finance committee it is 631 and I'd like to call the meeting to order with a pledge of allegiance I pledge of allegiance the United States of America to the stands one na Nation God indivisible [Music] and justice for all under Mass General Law chapter 30A section 20f this meeting is being recorded this meeting is being held remotely in accordance with the governor of Massachusetts March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GLC 30A section 20 and on March 29th 2023 Governor Hy signed a supplemental 2023 budget Bill allowing for remote and hybrid meeting options for public bodies through March 31st 2025 well welcome everyone um We are continuing so the first item on our agenda tonight is continuing with our department meetings so tonight we have let's see let me look at my agenda we have uh the budget meetings we have scheduled are Recreation then the town treasur collector and debt serviceair the town accountant and the highway snow nice um so Hello everybody welcome so I think I see did I see Dana here I'm here hi I thought I saw you somewhere we got a lot of oh you're right in the center I was looking all around and I didn't see you oh she's the center welcome thanks for coming tonight good evening thank you for having me thank you so we'll uh we'll let you get started and um tell about what's happening with Recreation and and let's talk about your budget a little bit sure um so I guess I'll start with um just the fiscal year 26 plans um for the general account is pretty cut and dry um so the 3% was added to the uh Recreation director salary um which is the only salary and um and then we have a general expense of 2,000 um and that's it for our general account um so last so for fiscal year 25 um it had been planned and approved through uh the process of town meeting um for the salary to um be adjusted and the hourly weekly hours to go from 30 to 32 in this fiscal year um that just recently um changed this January the beginning of January um and that um was kind of pre-planned so that we could help the beaches um and specifically help with the guards so the recreation department will be doing that and um I've already attended uh the wreck uh or excuse me the beach uh commission's budget meeting and um have met with the head guard and have started that work um so that'll you know kind of be filtered in with um the other Recreation duties um so if you look at um the fiscal year 25 and the allocated salary um that's where the 3% then is for the 26 as well okay were there any questions with that okay um and then Karen I believe I had um emailed you today a kind of add a glance sheet for some of our other accounts that we have um I always like to um kind of go over that if you would like me to I would and before you do I realized I forgot to do one thing that I was supposed to do was actually introduce the finance committee members that are here tonight um so let me do that first and then you can do that because we're required to to let everyone know who's here so um I'm Karen Rouse I'm here Al Le is here Hugh Morton Gary Carrero Christopher Thrasher uh Zack Leu and I absent is Michelle Orlando and Duncan law as far as I know Cindy ahead Cindy go ahead did I miss somebody sure you missed me I missed you and Cindy thank you that's that's impossible I got stuck in traffic on the way home from Provence and just literally opened up my laptop and tuned in so I'm a little um a little off a little off but thank you well traffic is no fun isn't it especially in the cold and snow thank you all right so back to you Dana so thank you yes so we love to hear of your uh your sheet that you provided us thank you sure um so I don't know if the um finance committee members were able to get a copy or if you wanted to share it via the screen um but I can verbally just go over our different accounts and what we have if that works that works I did well when I saw it in my email I did share it with the committee so they would have just seen it today okay great um so our programs this is our Recreation revolving account that rolls over each year um over since we started I started the position and creating the recreation department um December of 2018 um so it's been a little over six years now um and so our revenue for programs um for the um fiscal year of 2024 was 45,000 um little over 45,000 and our revenue for gym rentals um was almost 14,000 um so the total revenue we brought in just through our programs our Recreation programs and events and gym rentals uh was 59,000 and give or take so um that's a that's a you know to me a very healthy balance that we're bringing in each year um and then we have um an extra the balance that rolls over um is around 96,000 so um um so in addition to that we have been getting grants to the heleny Ellis um every year to help with our outdoor movie night series and our summer concert series and the amount we received for our outdoor movie night series was 3,500 and the amount for the summer concert series was 5,500 so that's $9,000 that we get um reimbursed based on those receipts so the recreation revolving account um initially fronts all those costs and then we submit our receipts and get reimbursed um so I I can I added that into the total revenue for TW fiscal year 24 um so 164,000 a little over that is what we have for the recck revolving um um Dana I just added it to the screen just in case perfect oh great so if you scroll down just a bit um I can go over our expenses let's see is it able to be scrolled down or do I do it Karen you're on mute oh there we go okay um so I'm at expenses there and you can kind of add a glance if you scroll down a little more um see our our expenses so our instructor fees are over low over 177,000 and then our summer and Out movie nights that's what it cost the 6,000 the 4,000 um office supplies are really pretty low for our department um just at 236 and then Rec supplies um this includes any materials that we have to purchase for programs for any kind of supplies sports supplies art equipment um you know if we're offering Refreshments at a special event all those kinds of things is close to 6,000 there um so I would say that's one of our biggest expenses other than our instructor fees and then our professional development um I attend an annual conference and I have I'm a membership of the massachus rec um Parks Association Etc so that's under a thousand around 800 there mileage um is close close to 900 and then cell phone is $50 a month I use my cell phone constantly um so I get reimbursed for that per month so that's 600 so our total expenses there as you can see are about 40,000 so the total left if you um minus our expenses uh and in the recreation revolving account is about 124,000 there um if you go to the next page now these are some of our other accounts um we do have we're lucky enough to get um a playground gift account um with a 500,000 Grant allocated to the recreation department from Anonymous Foundation um for the playground Improvement project that we did for the annex um so far we have paid 75% of the cost of the playground equipment through MRC game time and I actually just received the other invoice today so we will be soon paying for the rest of that um so out of that Grant we have um uh you can see the oh s oh I made a mistake there on that one I'm sorry I think um we we're basically going to exhaust that Grant like like very soon I think I put the wrong total there um but um we have spent 458,000 on it thus far forgive me for that um typo on that okay and then if we scroll down to the community preservation funds that we have um so we before I came on board in 2018 um in fiscal year 15 2015 the Recreation Commission at the time had gotten commute preservation funds for Annex gym rehab and access and we actually just exhausted those funds we just had the gym painted um and it's looking so much better the walls had to be repaired um with some damage there from old um I think um water damage in the corner and um so that's a really really good thing we were able to exhaust those funds since it was back from 2015 that we got them um and then we also have funds um to improve the back outside area of the annex which we've done a lot of work over the years by building um the stage by getting new fencing um we repaved the basketball courts um so but we still have some money to use there a little over 5500 there um that we will hopefully exhaust this year then um we have in 20 2024 and 2025 we have um Community preservation funds to use to continue um the playground Improvement project with Bicentennial Park in mind so um um I double checked the figures today we have used 5487 of50 of the fund so far um and we have the 200 95,000 left to use um so that as well as what we received allocated for 2025 will go toward improving and getting a new playground for The Bicentennial Park okay and then if you scroll down um we do have a monetary donations account of just 1,250 so I just want it's kind of just like there people had donated um funds so we have it in that account and then I just have a simple little thing there for the general expense account um and we did use the general expenses for the most part except for just under $3 um from La this past fiscal year so that is my presentation I welcome any questions if you have them so Dan I've got a question I don't see any hands up yet so let me see no hands up so I looking at your um the the schedule that you just had yes it looks so it looks as though you're building your revolving account right so you started the year with about $96,000 your your incoming Revenue was 59,000 and then you expended um 40 you're building right so you're building your revolving account which is now up to 124,000 do you have plans for that I mean it's wonderful that you're taking more money and that you're spending right so that's a good good change that you're you know um but do you have plans for that are you looking to build it to a certain amount or do you have a big project coming up that you're looking to use that for yeah well thank you for that question it's actually a good problem to have right um and so um uh we are going to be discussing this with the Recreation Commission about um how we can maybe take some of these extra funds that the uh recreation department has now that we've been successful over these past six years and see if there's anything um we want to do one of the things that we might you know look into is um we're currently getting um various quotes from different playground companies for bis sentenia Park we also have um put in an application for additional um Community preservation funds to address that Park as a whole um right now there's equipment stored on that Park and um from the work being done up there on gford road and um if you drive by it's just it really needs help it it just does not look like a nice friendly Park anymore um we really need to you know improve that area for the community to enjoy and um so that is one area that possibly if we're short on um funds for say like um improving the playground or if we you know want to do something a little extra um that wasn't really on the plan originally um we might have some funds from there that we could dip into as a possibility um and I think it's really kind of um something uh that's exciting to discuss with the Recreation Commission and see if they have any suggestions or ideas um I mean one other suggestion could be like maybe down the line we want to look at a parttime staff of sort um so I don't know I'm not sure but I I'm excited to kind of talk about possibilities right thank you uh thank you for that anybody have any questions for Dana I see no hands coming up okay well thank you very much um I really enjoy the work that we do and um it's been so gratifying this past year to see the positive um you know things that have been happening with the new annex playground um and then you know now planning for the Bicentennial Park and then also um you know just this Saturday we have a pizza and bingo event that we're running which sounds really simple but we have 60 people signed up with a weight list great so you know you know I think the community um is looking for opportunities to socialize to gather to do fun things with their family and um we're we're really glad we're able to provide that yeah well thank you we took a big leap leap of faith right five or six years ago when the committee formed and it it's nice to actually see that that you're being successful in the community and well received and and it's actually financially even making sense that that you're self-supportive so that's terrific all around you you've really turned it around it's you've done a great job you've done a great job thank you so much I really appreciate that feedback it means a lot want to say that I it's my impression about interest in your reaction that the new playground has been very well received not today I suspect no today was covered with snow but that whe looked pretty nice [Laughter] right thank you I will I will say even in the winter time now um if it isn't snowing and super cold I see people out there um you know in their Coates and they're they're out there using it which is wonderful right that's great thank thank you um uh Kimberly Lima you have your hand up hi there you're on mute you're on mute hi sorry about that um hi everyone I'm Kim Li I serve on the Westport Recreation Commission um with Dana and we're we've been so grateful to her over the last few years as you all have mentioned um I just had a couple general questions if there if time allows I know it wasn't on the agenda just specific to our general budget um as you know we're evolving fund um does that is that okay if I take up a few minutes okay sure absolutely yeah um so as Dana had expressed um we've been kind of looking at you know now that we have installed one playground and working on another what are those ongoing maintenance costs going to look like because in the past you know we haven't really had much success with you know overall Main of the playgrounds and we want to ensure if we're going to you know raise funds to invest in two beautiful new playgrounds that it's being wellmaintained in terms of like landscaping and things like that um so my question is you know if there are certain resources that are available to us but um we're not able to get them financially how would that work in terms of like appropriation like would you appropriate those funds from other departments to make up for that and to our department or um you know would it be upon us to look into other options you know that's kind of what we've been starting to do like in terms of hiring somebody to take care of that maintenance but I was just curious like how would it how does it work since we're revolving fund but we also have a general fund with the town right I think that those are great questions to talk to the Town Administrator about um and it depends on what expenses that you're looking that may maybe the highway department May or not be able to do those or um but that would be a conversation that I would start um with the Town Administrator to understand what the existing departments may have for capacity or to be able to assist in those things yeah we and we have started those discussions I guess um my question was you know even if we have the free cash to do that if if it's something that is um falls under the umbrella of another department but just isn't happening would that warrant an appropriation from Department to department or would it just be expected that we would have to make up that difference through the revolving account I think that's definitely a question to start with the Town Administrator on that um that you know that as we all know all the budgets in town are extremely tight right so so to increase other Department's expenses is is not something we're we're able to do so much but uh and if you have a revolving account that that that may be applicable for those for those sort of expenses to be used with that account so that's in part while I was asking the question what's the plan on that balance because that that's an an element that potentially would be maintenance and supporting your recreation activities which might include the playground but again I'm not the expert so it's really the Town Administrator is the playground is Town property so it's not I don't know if it's the recreation department that's expected but I would definitely start with the Town Administrator ask those questions yeah okay yeah I mean we've started those discussions I think it's just you know the timing and everything um but I also didn't know if you had any more information on that to share so just wanted yeah thank you I don't check in on that thank you thank you um our town of C might be here and might be able to to chime in too but um actually I it's sub's here yes actually the um Recreation Department is a separate section of the law and it's um supposed to be funded entirely from the revolving fund except for the department head salary okay now does that uh is that does that apply to other revolving accounts in town as well each department it's you've got to read the law on what your how your department was created and that's what is it doesn't matter what the different departments are the school department is one thing the each the highway Department's another thing like I guess I was a separate set of rules on how they spend their money than the rest of the town I mean other ENT priz funds other revolving funds within town do they all share that same not necessarily um like the Harbor Master has part of his department is a town funded department but he has water Enterprise fund which is a separate revolving fund that has to be spent in a specific way it's like even the recreation department the department head is Town funded the rest of right no I understand that the rest of it is everything else for under the law that that you have to utilize the revolving fund yeah I think it's just confusing because it's Town property that we're also utilizing for our services so we don't own the property you know yeah the town owns the property we don't own the I don't own the treasurer's office the treasurers Department doesn't own the treasurer's office I don't own the collector's office it's all part of the town we all operate on town-owned property I guess I mean in terms of the playground you know the playground think about it think of it as uh the Water Enterprise fund or S Enterprise fund the water mains and Sewer Ms in the town are Town property but those those are specifically set aside as Enterprise funds because at some point in time town meeting made that decision and that all the expenses would flow through uh the Enterprise price fund now it doesn't mean that uh if you were to ask for a capital expense like if you needed a you know that's what if it's Capital then that would fall in front of the capital Improvement um planning committee cipc or whoever they even to to to then vet out the process of does the playground come before uh a school project so that that's really where that falls um but yeah that was my question you know that's exactly what I was referring to not other expenses but terms of you know like you said a capital project or repairs or yeah that's something repairs are different repairs are different yeah repairs are different because repairs a routine maintenance right right a project like building a brand new is is something totally different than routine maintenance right right but the play The Playground comes under the the umbrella of the Recreation Commission the Recreation Commission is the one that developed the playground and because it's on Town property that doesn't mean that some other Town Department would necessarily be uh the the ones that would be required to maintain it so if you have a budget if you have a budget to maintain it then you would use whatever funds you have to either pay someone to maintain it or if if you're asking for another town Department to maintain it that would have to be worked out with the Town Administrator so just to clarify um historically it was maintained by the highway department but aside from that um when I looked at the bylaws you know the bylaws point to the high wager Department in terms of maintenance for any open public spaces within town so to me that's the playground in town property you know so that's why I'm asking that question you me I mean I can I I it's a great question and I don't think any one of us have the answer so I would definitely start ter administrator to kind of go through what the bylaws are and to see so um historically you mentioned too that the town the highway department took care of it when I first started working for the town the highway had over 20 men on the department they now have five yeah yeah and I understand that like we we we totally are understanding of that and that's why we proposed a solution of just allowing us to find somebody to subcontract it for a minimal expense versus you know having to utilize full resour ources to you know maintain it so I don't think the highway department would argue with you about that exactly so they would be very happy if someone else took care of care of that um so that's kind of why we're we're looking at these different um options and things like that so we'll we'll refer back to Jim on that um but appreciate the input sure thank U Hugh you have your hand up yeah I just GNA say I I support everything you're saying I would have no illusions that would be money for other departments to help maintain I'm all in favor of Maintenance important to do but the highway sorry the police and the fire are trying to find someone to cut the grass around their stations at this point there's no extra the police and the highway department and the maintenance in terms of grass cutting Etc is right now stretched thin so I would have no illusion that that would come out of another account talking to Jim is actually the right thing to do I think it has to come out of the revolving account because the whole idea when the department was set up was it was going to be self-supporting it is well but if you're using other departments you're not self- deporting if you're using the revolving fund you are yeah but you could argue that with other departments that utilize Town resources as well so as Susan said there are specific rules for the different departments and the rule when the uh Recreation part was set up was that it would be self-supporting but I go back to what Karen said a moment ago talk about Jam maybe something I've overlooked or we've overlooked and certainly I don't mean to be critical of the idea of wanting to good maintenance of course that's right thing to do pay for is the problem anything else you no that's I all right thank you Christopher you be here yeah so um just a couple things first of all I just wanted to thank Dana for the work that she does I think there's uh if you have not had a chance to ever uh take advantage of the programs that they uh they put on uh it really that we've been to went to a couple of the the the the movie Nights over the summer and certainly been taking advantage of the playground I mean it's great stuff um so thank you for all the work that you're doing on that and and to the rec committee as well um I I I guess I want to follow up on that as far as clearly the um you know the rec department is self- sustaining and that the this programming is continuing to be funded by uh by the fees collected uh and grants and whatnot um just going back to when this department was set up I'm curious was was it specifically the intention that the properties like the playground would would become the responsibility of the rec department going forward or was the purpose of the department uh specifically for programming because it was my understanding I I thought anyway that it was more of a more of a programming than than a facility situation that was our my understanding Dana um so when I first started um it was never specifically stated to me um I think it was so new that it was you know I had the job description um and um I don't think it really I'd have to look back said anything specific about the oversight of the parks and playgrounds I think it's just a natural fit that goes with the recreation department kind of like now how they're saying well it might be a natural fit for me helping with the lifeguards and beaches um I I am all four for helping with the playgrounds obviously with the new one we um uh were able to install and and our um we do have some um really great plans for the Bicentennial Park that we're going to be actually um presenting to the select board um that's multiphase um we're going to hopefully be um presenting that uh in I believe it's February um so I I'm all for for doing what I can to improve the community um through our department um that being said I'm still learning even six years in some of the bylaws Rules and Things that um have been in place um it was told to me in the beginning that the highway department um you know cut the grass at the playgrounds and um so anyway we're just trying to figure out we have reached out the Town Administrator and we're hopefully going to uh come to some sort of resolution great thank I just the highway the playgrounds were not on the agenda it was set up to have somebody do something and she was much more than anybody ever expected it thank you but the playground came along a couple years ago when everybody said they're a terrible disarray and something needs to be done so it was not Invision up front it wasn't excluded just wasn't thought about right events developed over time yeah Sue bra you've get your hand up um going in another direction for this um next year 20126 is the United States 250th year do you have any programs yes I actually just met with um a group um at the council in aging uh last week uh with some you know beginning talks about how to celebrate that anniversary and um I look forward to being a part of that brainstorming group and then helping even Implement some of the plans that maybe the town would do to help celebrate that okay very good um there is so that you know a separate fund available for specific deposits to be made to for um celebrations of this nature there's not much in it right now uh it was last used I believe for the bicentennial year um but on the other hand if it's a it's a place that you can put some funds specific for this if you do some fundraising for this event we can put the monies there wonderful to know thank you so much you're welcome any other questions for Dana I don't see think so all right I think we'll let you be free now okay thank you so much thanks for coming appreciate everything you do thank you have a good evening thank you so much all right um one second so just for the notes for the minute I saw Duncan law came into our meeting at 657 he joined our meeting hi Duncan greetings sorry I was late that's okay you're here now all right um so the next item uh so the next budget we have is um we have the treasur and the town accountant do either of Nicole or Susan do you have to depart quickly do we need to take either one of you first or second or does it not matter no s Su can go first all right Susan you're up okay um did you get my budget which one do you want to do first de uh sure whatever you'd like to do okay um let me look for my narratives okay I don't see them in my on my screen here so let's start with debt debt is what it is um can't change it it's what we've expended but I have reviewed it a lot of people keep asking me when are some of these things going to roll off the budget and so forth so the first thing would be the fire station that'll be rolling off in the year 2030 police station in 2038 Elementary School roof payment 2043 it looks like the middle high school will be 2053 Bristol Aggie I believe 2052 in Diamond they haven't finished borrowing yet so we'll leave that one as a big guess um our non-excluded debt is debt that directly impacts available funds for the town uh for the town budgets for fiscal 26 the impact on the town budgets is ground the balance um combined balance and interest for FY 26 will be 141,000 $791 and that will be the final payment on the camp round oh good good excuse me so then we have the school PCB cleanup unfortunately that we're still paying on and that one we're paying right now it's 200 for this year will be $23,995 the final payment on that unfortunately is not until 2032 police station the impact for the police station which is the million dollars um the additional funds that they borrowed after the excluded um funds that they had the but on just the non-excluded funds the impact is going to be 13 13,000 uh $63 and that again will be rolling off in 2038 and then we have a clean water trust loan that is part of our water management plan and that's only $10,800 for this year it's 2041 that that will roll off there that was a 20-year loan that we took for the Water Management plan was only 150,000 so we're not paying down much each year here but they do all their loans for 20 years now our non-excluded debt is outside the debt limit and it's funded through um no yeah outside the debt limit is funded through the repayment of septic betterment loans currently we have three loans that total a million dollar and the town meeting approved an additional 500,000 Loan in February which will be closing in February of 25 this first payment is due in FY 26 the idea behind these loans is that the people who have um betterments they as they pay up their betterments the money is there to pay off these loans so that's why it's considered outside the debt limit it doesn't it's not excluded debt it's not non-excluded debt it's funded from the repayments I anticipate the be Board of Health may be requesting that we apply for another loan through the Clean Water trust at this time with the four loans we're going to have $1 A5 million dollar out in loans and about four um 40 of those loans have serviced about we still have about 40 individuals with outstanding loans why doesn't she show her face so in my opinion these loans are not in the best financial of the T financial interest of the Town most betterment loans are issued for 20 years which means the assessors tax collector Treasurer accountant process and maintain all the records for these until the final payment is made which is 20 years for all of those loans most of the record keeping is done on Excel spreadsheets and early pay payoffs must be manually calculated and entered we often have people pay off loans early to save money on the amount of interest paid when the property is remortgaged or sold the bank requires that the loan be paid off we have had several people pay loans off immediately after getting the funds as they're in the process of selling the home in need to meet Title 5 requirements when they apply in cases such as this the people pay only a few months of Interest yet the town is got to pay for 20 years years we're paying 2 and a qu% interest on over 20 years we're currently charging 5% to the homeowner hope the idea is that we charge more to the homeowner it does cover hopefully the people that pay over the full 20 years will cover the people that are doing these things where they take out the loan and then pay it right down but it's putting the US in the position of acting as a banker or a mortgage company and that is not really the town is not a bank or mortgage company but that's what we are kind of doing for these people with these um we also have authorized and unissued debt which is an y can I ask you a question before you go on um on the the septic betterment so um and I know Mass General law is going to dictate everything so and I don't I'm not an expert in the in that but just curious is there anything so what I hear you what I hear what I heard you say was the cost to service this loan for 20 years far outweighs any interest expense that the town collects there's a you know and if the especially if if someone pays it off early you're maintaining a doing a lot of work and so my question is is there anything allowable to either issue uh in the loan agreement itself to have a prepayment penalty so if it's paid off in the first year there's a penalty or a fee of some sort and you know is there anything like that that you can kind of recoup some of the cost that you're doing to set up this loan and then it automatically gets paid off really quick I don't believe so um there's a whole set of guidelines I'm sure unfortunately I've read through them so many times more than I care to and um I don't believe there's any provisions in there for us to do that so administratively then if that's the case then either the town has to decide that it's worth a service to the residents and therefore then then you employees will have to cover the service cost as an additional burden or we don't allow it right so I think that's what you're trying to say that the it's a burden it's it's a burden to this to maintain the service of that right Financial benefit coming back to the town to help right they there's no there's no um there's no provision in the law to allow that to be passed on to the resident uh and only because the loan is with really the trust and the town and not with the resident the town is just a b just a you know acting as a fiduciary uh enable it to collect that collect that money so it's not between the trust and the and the resident between the trust and the town except the town is doing all the a lot of administrative work right but you could say that it's a flaw on the in the yeah they allow us to take I think it's two or two and a half percent or something of the of original amount and the person who is doing the work to prepare the loans for the residents and working with the residents to get the loans gets paid their administrative costs but after the loan is finalized there's nothing to cover it for the administrative cost for the remaining 20 years um question thank you so Cindy go ahead yeah so I had a question a follow-up question to that so tell me exactly what's involved so you you said that you're the you're charging 5% it only costs the uh one and a half% but the homeowner is paying 5% so that leaves three and a half% but you said something about you're only able to keep two and a half percent of that does the state no two it's actually we're charged approximately two and a qu% from it's 2% but then they have administrative fees that they charge us on our so it comes state does yeah the trust the trust does the trust does so it's roughly two and a quarter percent that we're paying on so we borrow a million dollar and we're paying two and a qu% back on that million dollar but the homeowner is only paying one and a half no the homeowner is paying 5% at this time I'm going to say at this time five% okay fine all right and so so that's about what $22,000 a year on a million dollars but yeah what happens is somebody will pay back um they'll borrow $45,000 to put in a system and six months later they are paying back the 45,000 plus 5% for the 6 months yeah and that's all we're going to get for interest from that person so we'll have the 45,000 we can put that in a bank account and some interest can earn on it but that money is 45,000 that's we're only getting say we get $1,000 of Interest that's not 5% over 20 years on that 45,000 so how often do they make payments on these on these loans they're build on these loans through the tax bill it gets added to the tax bill which is where the assessors get involved they have to um get the they get a schedule of payments from when they do the loan it gets added to the tax bill collect collected of course record the payments there um and then we always have to balance out of course with the accountant who has to monitor all the different funds because each loan is accounted for separately okay all right I was just trying to understand the the mechanism of it um I mean so you said how many how many loans are there in total 40 at this time I think there's about 40 or so that are still unpaid right okay there's several that have over you know we had one just recently the woman wanted to pay it off before we uh before the Board of Health even had a chance to record the lean it was yeah you know things like that so she paid hardly any she paid less than $1,000 of Interest she had borrowed you know like I say 40,000 paid less than a four ,000 of Interest yet we're paying two and uh two and a quarter perent on that 40,000 but once the principal is paid back you're not paying the two and a quarter on that anymore the interesting thing is we can't take that 40,000 and pay down the loan if you try to pay off clean water Trust Loans there's a clause in there that says you can't do it or you can but then there's recalculation penalties and this and that and they charge us extra fees and so forth to pay it down early so the homeowner can pay it down early but the the town cannot we the servicer cannot correct Okay so all right now I understand Weir yeah thanks Al go ahead you've got your hand up yeah just a yeah just a a two-part quick question so so Susan the um the town's expenses are frontend loaded in in I'm asking a question not not making a statement so if if uh somebody applies for loan gets a loan and then decides in two months pick a number to uh to to pay it off all of our expenses are uh frontend loaded at the administrative level and then after they pay it off uh this thing continues on for the the termination 20 years or whatever it might be yes oh well that's a good idea all right and my my other question is geez maybe I should take one anyway um back back to a a bigger point the what is our default rate on on on these loans I have not calculated that we haven't oh default rate we have a lean we do not we have a lean we do not default default rate we have had a few people go into tax title because the billing mechanism for them is they are added to the tax bill so if they don't pay their taxes they go it just get rolled rolled in into the penalty and interest of of of the of the nonpayment of the of the tax bill yep and they can actually go into tax title and forclosure for it okay fair enough that that's fine I just those were my two you know point and question thank you y great thank you uh Nicole you've got your hand up yeah I just wanted to to piggyback on Sue that some of the loans that we've given out are lot less than 5% um some of the ones that they did for the den nitrification were 1% or one and a half so you know um not all of them we're not collecting 5% on all of them um and it is a lot of work for the person who does um the the loans themselves she does all the amortization schedules all the recordings uh Engineers you know all that you know coordinate everything with these loans so basically the homeowners don't do much um the person that that you know does these loans you know she finds the engineers she coordinates you know the perk tests the whole everything that goes along with these septic systems so it it it does tend to be a lot of work and we have four of them that are are running so accounting wise when collector takes a payment and and they you know make a payment then I have to make sure that the payments go into the four different funds separately and and keep track of that there's also there was something that happened at one point um which is why the loans got increased to the 5% at one point it was not it's the the law states it's the treasurer that sets the rate and prior to 2020 it was not the treasurer that was setting the rate okay that's when I came in and read it read the law so that's why you have some loans out there that unfortunately are at less than 5% great thank you for that uh Hugh go ahead you've got your hand up muted you're on mute H you not necessary mistake remember interest rates were basically zero a few years ago so that they probably reflected the prevailing interest rate at the time when the loans were made being made on the other side of that if I understand it correctly if we have to pay The Upfront processing cost not sure I've heard that both ways does the applicant pay the cost up front or does the town just Reserve that one but when that's paid off we've got the money to invest earning interest at a current banking rate which is now around 5% or so that's not such a bad result okay thank you Hugh Al you've got your hand up yeah I'm going to take just a quick contrarian approach to this so I understand that it's additional work for the treasurer for the tax collector's office whatever it might be my question is would we not have a an additional person in either one of these offices if we didn't have this burden yes it's additional work but is it costing the town money do we do we have a part-time FTE do we have a full-time FTE because of it no we don't have a we would actually have time to get the work done that the other work done that we're supposed to be doing okay but but it's not costing quote unquote costing us money in in in in terms of of of another payroll person it's just another burden that we could be doing other things with is it is that fair correct correct oh it's a state it's a state mandate it's a state of course one more unfunded State mandate yes there you go it's just one of those things added to our list because it needs to be done and somebody's got to do it so we do it y okay fair enough I just want to bring that up on the table so I'm I'm good all right great um all right Susan I guess you can keep going on to your where you were going okay where was I going I stopped you on that one thank you that was that was that was definitely well worth a pause on that one so yep interrupt anytime thanks um we do have some authorized and unissued debt which is debt that has been authorized by town meeting yet we have not incurred yet um we have $83,500 left on an a open space um authorization that was originally for I believe $1.5 million and over the years we've borrowed down for for several different purchases of open space the a open space committee has recently contacted me and asked that we resend this they do not feel the 835 is going to be enough to purchase any of the uh properties that they would be interested in so you'll see an our to meeting article to resend that in addition to that we have authorized ized and unissued debt for the roof and the high school uh West roof and the Middle High School construction those what's left on there cannot be those are in the process the both of those projects until uh once they're closed out by msba if there's any remaining unissued debt we will be able to put it on town meeting the clean water trust loan is also authorized and unissued that one will be issued um in February that's closing in February so that will come off this list soon and then we also have an additional $350,000 uh for the sewer water line and that is um nonexcluded debt so that one if the um if it's issued if the sewer water committee or whoever decides they need to use that utilize those funds it will be um non-excluded debt Gary Gary thank you thank you so um Sue on that last one you just mentioned is that uh being paid by user fees from the water Ser users or is that general fund debt no that was general fund debt and the article says to authorize borrowing for engineering service for a prop purpose of funding the design of a sewer and water line Northwest including cost of design and other Rel so far we have not used it they've been able to they utilized um they did do a lot of this already and they used at the time um Opa funds yeah and I guess the question is and this is probably not you probably weren't involved with it but I probably higher level um who made the decision to make that general fund debt when in fact it's the benefit Enterprise funds should it that have been Enterprise fund related Water and Sewer usage fees that are paying that down and not general fund not general fund debt I think they put it through as um this way I'm not sure why they did it what what was the date of that article that's what I'm looking for uh 6521 article number 30 so this is the benefit Water and Sewer uses uh through the within the Enterprise fund that should have been Enterprise fund debt why I'm not I'm a little unclear on why it's general fund debt when in fact it's it's it's for a specific use for the Enterprise funds is that something Jim is Jim here I don't know if somebody I don't even know if Jim was here at the time he was not uh he was1 you know you know Gary I think I think the simple answer is that when you sit in a town meeting and and they they're throwing all these articles at you people start zoning over unless they have a specific uh thing and and this was probably just tossed in and people said yeah yeah yeah the finance committee goes through every single one of those articles Al I'm trying to I'm not talking Finance I'm talking about I'm talking about the general public at the town meeting when they when they vote but the finance committee would have reviewed those articles prior to it being on the warrant meeting so we so collectively some of us should have some recollection I mean it was four years ago so we should remember when that article I I certainly cannot remember that article from four years ago uh at all I mean shaking and the town has a water fund it does not have a sewer fund right because that was a proposal to go on town meeting last May which that was an article so there is no sewer fund currently so maybe since there was no fund established that that the answer was the debt had no other choice because it didn't have a sewer fund to to go towards right does that make sense Nicole absolutely thank you okay I I think they tried to do a Deb exclusion and and it wasn't voted it was voted down um but we don't have a sewer Enterprise as of yet right um and right now we didn't have one in 20 we didn't have one in 21 and anything where anything we're doing now towards the sewer is all being paid by grants and arpa so yeah we haven't spent any money yet eventually if this morphs into a bigger project or whatever I would hope that the town then initiates the Sue Enterprise fund so that any of these fees are paid by user fees that are that are being you know uh that are using the the sewer the sewer basically I mean you've got 99% of the toal that's on septic uh and we've had this argument before you know how can you co-mingle both both um expenses you know may I suggest that's not before us tonight no I know but it could be in in a few years we might deal with it rather than tonight yeah I think it'll be shorter than two years yeah so just to just and I agree Hugh right so just to get back Sue to what your point is to bring this up was that there's authorized debt that could be borrowed if it so chooses that would affect the future budgets is that is that what your point of that was right okay yes correct great thank you so it's not impacting the fiscal 20 six budget that we're referring to because there's not an anticipation at this time that there'd be borrowing but there could be right because the town has already authorized the at right at this time town meeting has authorized it so I believe it would just take a vote of the board of Selectmen to tell me Sue we want you to do that boring and it will be done and at the present time you do not have that in the fiscal 20 budget as correct okay there's no indication at this time that they they're looking to borrow this this money um like Nicole said they're utilizing or have been utilizing oper and Grant funds to do any of the work at this point and I believe they're going to continue to try to do the sameas okay thank you so just getting back to we weren't not having a general sewer discussion it was real relative to the the potential borrowings to that article so thank you so and other than that the numbers that you um I sent over are actually just directly from the debt payment schedules that are supplied by the Banks when we do the borrowing and those are the actual cost that we're looking at great thank you Susan any other questions for on those on the debt no okay okay um and as far as my Treasurer collector budget again um there's not much that's changed on it I the increases are all simply for under the p uh Personnel section is just the normal payroll increases according to contracts Etc um and then any other increases on the expenses are strictly small anticipated increases in things such as Postage and printing and such of bills that I expect will be happening um there's really nothing new and shocking on there the biggest thing thing on there is that there is um that I've increased somewhat even though I won't need to be going to school this year um I've got both of my certifications pass my treasur certification this year um already had my Collective certification so I'm hoping to send a couple of my girls to school this year so I've increased that a little bit so that we can uh they can go to school and I'm hoping that somebody will be ready to take over for me when I'm ready to retire no you're too young for that no I'm [Laughter] not oh Hugh go ahead a very small question soe in the past there have been return envelopes with the tax bills it didn't seem to be this time is that a change in approach for save money or something going on I don't know a minute I don't know why they didn't include them this time okay it wasn't plan it just happened thank you yeah it should reflect in the printing cost because they charge me I'm sure my printing should be down a little bit on this because we are charged for I'm sure you'll check on them that's fine I [Laughter] will sue is there a is there a savings so my so Hugh as so obviously Hugh gets the mail and he gets a paper bill I get everything electronic and auto pay is it less expensive for the town to not have to um send out bills and is it more efficient to do it electronically and if that's the case is there any push to try to encourage electronic um no the electron if you pay through our online bill pay system yeah you can sign up and create an account and they will email you when you have a bill available to pay we do not have any way of tracking email they have a system that they can utilize to track your email and so forth we just do not have any way to track people's emails so we may everybody a tax belt because we are required to know that we send them out um and do mailing certification so even though you may not pay attention to your mail you did get one in the mail or should have you get you get one right you don't get it quarterly you get one correct you get two is it one or two you get two I only get one you get one in July our way of saying happy 4th of July and that's due for August and November and then you get another one um in January that's for due for February and may that's our way of saying Happy New Year oh I only I only remember getting one but I guess you're right yeah we do get two yep that's why you're in a rear so you're required to incur that expense even though someone like me wants nothing to do with even opening up a paper mail yeah and I just toss it out I don't even remember so you you still have to the town still to pay I and postage it used to be in the law that we were required to physically mail a bill for everything I think there's been some changes to that I honestly haven't followed through with those changes that have on the possibility of doing electronic because we do not have the capability of doing it yeah yeah okay my impression is that it might be cheaper of the town but it's more expensive than taxpayer because the processing of other people is not free right so I don't think they Chang they changed the law years ago Hugh I don't know how many years ago where where uh you know the the company the government the the business used to eat the uh the fee that that was charged on a credit card now it's added to so you're right I mean it all depends some me it all depends don't forget most people pay this through their mortgage so you know if you don't have a mortgage and you're paying the bill Direct that's one thing if most people it's included in their mortgage payment so they're not even really they'll still see the bill but they're not paying that bill separately a good most people yeah most people are not old people don't have brers anymore that's right I was going to say you'd be surprised at how many people uh do not have mortgages um we still we' get a tremendous amount of our payments the other but I'm thankful for those that do come through on mortgages that's because that's because there are a lot of older people in Westport that's yes and only getting older yeah all right uh anything else on on that so we'll wrap that up yep and that's it on my budget actually the only other thing I want to bring to your attention is I will have an article that I'll need to discuss with you regarding changes to the tax title law that was recently implemented lots of changes on that so I'm going to be presenting an article to increase my revolving fund on that which I'll include an explanation when that article comes before you and then I also have concerns about a human resource department which I would ask that perhaps we can schedule that for a discussion at some point yep I think that's a good idea so you know that I support that wholeheartedly yes thank you all right well we can certainly um if we if we can manage to gather our Collective um select board school committee finance committee meeting uh we'll certainly be talking about the fiscal 26 budget as a whole and other needs and other gaps and other things and we can certainly uh make sure we talk about that then absolutely thank you sure thing all right Susan anything else on any other questions for Susan I think you've covered everything I appreciate you all wrote all that in your memo so actually I just want to add one one thing to what Susan said sure in talking about that because it is related to her Department budget so I I don't want to feel that right we're taking this out of context of of what our agenda says but in and and perhaps she's reluctant to bring it up but the Treasures Office ends up getting inundated with HR questions regarding health insurance and uh other types of things they off office is only the mechanism to provide for deductibles from the salary payments for such health insurance she is not the health care advisor the the the treasurer The Collector is is not deemed to be the health care you know professional to know which health care plans we should have and what the health care plans include and what they don't include and is there a death benefit to you know an employee in town and blah blah blah that's not the purpose of the treasur collector's office and because of our lack of having uh any type of HR department those things end up in her lap so you talk about the servicing of you know of these water loans at a very low rate um at least we're getting paid for that part of it the the part about all of the health insurance and and all of those things we're not getting paid any extra for and that's a very significant burden that is placed on the treasurer's office currently you can go in there any afternoon after school after after teachers are out and chances are there's a teacher in there wanting to know about health care coverage blah blah blah because that's where they go to get these answers I mean Susan is that incorrect no it's not as a matter of fact um today today we had um the school department had a new hire so there was a teacher today that we're doing all the onboarding for for any of the benefits that they're interested in so on and so forth we take care of all that onboarding so there's a teacher in there that we're in there taking care of today uh then we're notified from the school department that somebody um who was just hired in November is leaving so now we're doing all the reversals on that person notifying all the department uh the insurance department and the whether it be the life insurance the health insurance or you know the 401K whatever uh all these things that they're no longer with us and so right you know it's it's schools it's you know it's other departments I mean oh yeah it's it's just the burden of those types of issues that end up on the threshold of that door yes that do not belong there do not belong there right right so anyway that that is something that we we do need to bring up at a future meeting yeah thank you Cy and and you're right it it does tie into the the department because the department is providing the service without either the time or necessarily all the expertise to to do that right so that's my big concern is that we are not trained in all of this right and the compliance requirements that go along with some of these things right and it's not just benefits it's I'm sure payroll and FMLA and or workers comp issues or any of those or I'm sure fall to a lot to your department so um yes so it is related to the HR but um go ahead Al no I just want tag on and and just just very very briefly and and it's it's not just that it get gets dumped on Susan's Des Jim Jim also who was wearing about 40 hats um you know in addition and this issue if we don't if we don't correct it potentially leads the town into a you know lawsuit and liability issues as well because it's so damn complex it is so Ever Changing um but we really do need to I believe address this in a separate issue separate venue but really address the the the whole notion of human resource and and uh so I'll leave it at that but it it it it it's not just a fluffy thing I mean this this is a real issue that that we have not really um you know dealt with as a town not a finance committee necessarily but as a town yeah we have approximately 450 employees between the school and the town yeah yeah uh Duncan you have your hand up yeah quick question Susan um the the school department has uh at least two HR people that I'm aware of why don't they deal with that kind of question I don't know and that's one of my question questions I think we need to sit down not so much at a finance committee meeting with everybody but a smaller group of us get together and say okay what is it that you're doing that you know because I don't know what exactly their duties are and they have uh a full-time and a part-time HR person they also have a full-time payroll person we only have a full-time payroll person yeah it just it just you know to me they should handle all the School Employees you know all the all of that stuff I mean that's that's just simple I don't know why exactly why some of the things are done the way that they are and I think that's something that we need to find out we need to sit down with the people from the school department that do these and find out what their duties are I know some of what they do but I do not know all of what they do so I'm not going to say they're you know not doing job we're going to going outside of the boundaries a little bit of I would assume you start with Jim he's the one that's the middle of everything right chair I really I would just go ahead go ahead Christopher I just wanted to make sure we're not going into the boundaries of discussing um other departments functions within I think well I think this is actually this is very relevant to the discussion because I I I I absolutely agree with with Susan that this HR situation is something that needs to be addressed I think that there is you know this is actually something that that I've looked into on the school department side and I I will say that I think there's there's a a level of confusion as to uh who actually has access to what um you know ultimately the town being the the the name of the paycheck uh or the entity on the paycheck but at the same time um you know I know that a lot of the onboarding involves the forms getting uh getting uh filled out on the school department side and then getting dumped on on on Susan to to actually Implement so I I don't I I think part of that is a systems issue but also just I think that there really hasn't been a discussion uh about how to approach this and and I would this is this is a perfect example of a function that I think that both the uh the town uh townside and the school department can utilize uh resources on both sides to correct this problem because it is is clearly an issue and and you know I I I don't think currently the way it's being done is is not working and and uh needs to be addressed I'm hoping that that can I remember talking about this last year as a matter of fact so I'm really hoping that sooner rather than later uh parties can sit down and try and figure figure out a way forward on this yeah I think I think that's what it's going to take we need to find a way that's going to be efficient for everyone yeah I mean and just you know clearly the this this equates to to the overall umbrella of the fiscal 26 budget which you know it is our clearly is on our agenda for tonight but this is a great General budget discussion right so we all look at what's in the budget but we need to also look at what's not in the budget right so what other services are needed that where are the gaps and this is clearly identified as a potential Gap and can it be covered by existing Personnel or is it something that we really need to talk about funding in some capacity and if so how right um but absolutely so it's on my notes that we'll make sure we we talk about anything else Susan all right all right well hang tight because you always love to hang tight but or go whatever you choose thanks uh all right so the next uh budget we have is Nicole uh the town accountant budget good evening everybody good evening um my budget really doesn't change much from year to year um 3% salary increase for both myself and my assistant um my OPB is a short year this year so we went from 10,000 to 1,000 because every other year is a a full year this is a short year 26 um we signed a new contract with the Auditors for three years um that's the increase in the auditor line from 275 to 36,000 um I'm working towards our Cloud integration for our accounting and collections um we've run against a few problems and we may be looking at other options um so I'm hoping to get things done for July 1 but um um still waiting to hear um I'm also working on updating Financial policies and procedures because some of them just copied over from other towns and um we need to take a hard look at them and you know make a few changes um we've updated our um procedures a little bit over the years with memos here and there so we just want to get them all um Consolidated so um that's pretty much it any questions ni yeah um uh so the how much did so we're using roselan Clark still right yes I'm still using roselan Clark he is 36,500 36,000 even this year um I think he's going up so I it's the three-year contract so 26 is one cost and um it's G to go uh up a little bit more each year I think it goes up like $500 each year for three years oh that's not bad yeah no but we've been 275 for the past you know 101 15 years so you I expected an increase yeah okay he does a good job he's working on our audit they were in a couple of weeks a um they were in before Christmas to finalize some stuff I got some information from Chad the other day so they're close to being done with the audit for this year for fiscal 24 yeah I mean I think you've you're happy with him because you know he's helped us out along the way and in the past things that you know that we needed and you know I'm sure that a lot of times that he's done that he hasn't jogged the town you know he got through some difficult back then and uh if you're happy with him I think that you know the extra $500 is not that's nominal yeah yeah we're very happy with him he does a really good job you're right Gary I mean 500 is not gonna move the needle one way or the other no and he knows the town and he has experience with it so I think it's a good fit all right let's question well Nicole I think you set a world's record for getting free cash certified this year I said I was gonna get it done on time this year and I got it done on time I know congratulations thank you we did have one little glitch so we had to have it recertified um when Diamond had given us a credit for the premium that they had for their bonding um I had to recertify free cash because we had to reserve for that uh piece of debt it was $17,988 [Laughter] is not a good thing well at least we didn't have to do you know way in the past we used to do a fall special town meeting once free cash was certified and we'd spend it all in December but you know luckily we didn't have to do that great thank you any qu other questions for Nicole no nope okay well Nicole I'll touch base with you separately on our email exchange so I'll um I'm still trying to reconcile last year's numbers but I'll I'll touch base with you after that so all right I'll be in the office all right I know you will okay thanks thanks Nicole appreciate it all right so the last budget we have for tonight is the highway budget and Gary you um you volunteer to be uh speaking on behalf of the highway Department tonight right yes so um you had the uh the budgets for Highway snow and ice um I sent that to Karen so she shared that with everybody yeah um his budget is pretty much level funded uh the town engineer that's in there you see for 1236 um that's a uh I don't know if Jim is Jim on on the call he's not he's not so that's a position that they put in that felt that um they would need that position to um help uh with the design of Roads and so on and so forth so uh the others are pretty much contractual the department head Chris G Chris Gonzales you know a highway surveyor so he's uh that's for a contract um you see the list of uh FTE which is um he's got a few openings um he's got himself a clerk uh and I believe they're hiring a new clerk uh he's got a couple of um laborers he's got a foreman then he has about three positions that are still uh vacant so uh he's you know we're competitive now with with the state uh and other entities and trying to get these positions filled um and then he's got his normal uh you know expense expenses heat electricity uh he's gone up a little bit in Road repair maintenance um uh they went up a little bit on the um telephone so Gary before you keep going I want to ask questions about the ft because I'm confused so looking at the Town Administrator budget and listening to the Town Administrator somebody's got some side talking going right some yeah okay um I think the Town Administrator is proposing to decrease a open position and that's the budget that we have it looks like it's going proposing to go down well he's got three which position is that one of the seos I don't know what it's in the it's in the line is non-clerical it's the proposal the request is 483,000 and the Town Administrator has 425 so from what I heard from what the Town Administrator in speaking when he presented to the select board was was that the highway department has had open positions for a few years and yes and we the town the budget has been continuing to keep them appropriated in the budget with the intent that they would hire those positions and then each year comes by and the the highway department did not hire the position it's remains an open position and then the next year comes and the proposal of the budget again is to appropriate the funds to H to for that position and so every year we ask the same question well why do we have open positions and they're not full and and if the yeah if the highway department continues to say they're over they're busy they don't have time to do things but there's open positions it's un it's unclear to me what that is and again it does seem like the Town Administrator is pulling something out of the budget so yeah it's one of the vacant positions it's one of the seos one of the laborers and can that's 58,000 that's around 58,000 yeah and what do you can you help us understand why these positions have stayed open and not filled well you know there there so there is a need in that department for Laborers for for people that are actually you know maintaining the roads cutting their grass plowing the streets and there's there hasn't been any there hasn't been any movement in order to fill them I mean we went through Co we went through all these different you know scenarios where coming out of covid you know what we were offering as far as a pay rate was concerned the state was beating us triple at I mean remember the plow drivers for instance uh they were we we offered $50 $50 an hour they were paying a 100 so we were in competition with a lot of these other entities that coming out of covid we just couldn't we couldn't fill so that's continually the problem with the highway department we'll get him in and this is like this for every Department we'll get him in we'll train them uh we'll get them all the licenses they need then all of a sudden they leave so we're left with that big expense of having to train these folks then they go get a job at paying $40 an hour with either shert a bus or or M do so this has been the ongoing story for the last three four years now not saying that the department doesn't need that level of uh FTE it probably doesn't then more I mean we just talked about 20 years ago you know the road the town hasn't shrunk we're still plowing in and maintaining the same amount of Roads um and having to do more for other departments just puts that more of a burden on the on the department so you know I've been down there visited the facility multiple times multiple times they do the best they can with their equipment uh they're you know they're spread thin when it comes to a snowstorm uh you know back in the day I remember my my street used to get plowed three four times now you might see the plow on there once it's no fault of the department but it's just they don't have the staff to to to maintain the the level of uh like miles of road that we have in town so I guess pulling that position out is a balancing act but again it's it's hard to to fill these positions especally the laborers this is not just Westport this is this is this is Statewide there an issue you know um but you know as Tim you know Jim's the uh to administrator he has to evaluate that so he's going evaluate yeah we've went so many years there hasn't been it's not that there's no need it's just that he's trying to balance the budget and I get it yeah um thanks Gary go ahead Hugh you've got your hand up yeah it seems to me I'm understand what Gary saying Etc but if you have two positions we'll say we can't fill because we're not paying enough and I would think we would pay more to get one and forget the other position I mean if it's you know if you find that you're under the market and can't hire somebody you're going to have to do without or raise for the market that well I think that's it's a good concept but I think it's easier said than done remember these are union positions so right you know that'd be bargaining with the Union that be opening up the contract again if it was a midye contract so yeah in the perfect world that would be what we should be doing but you know it's yeah I agree with you but still it's going on for two or three years not time to do something about it or try to anyway it may not be possible but doesn't seem to be working as it is now there's no I think nobody's fault as a matter of circumstances as you say inflation the values go up everywhere and everything everybody's hiring they find that that employees cost more than they were expecting not said thanks you syy go ahead um so you know I'll kind of address this to Gary to some degree Gary so as you know you know we did the the um salary survey study and we found that you know Westport is fairly competitive uh if you will regarding as it compares to other municipalities not necessarily compared to private companies right so you know you you you need a labor for some uh uh a private um work firm and they're going to pay a little bit more does Dartmouth have o openings do you know that you're aware of I mean are they having the same difficulty many yeah so I mean it you know it is just you know a problem I mean we we do find that when we did the salary survey that uh the highway rates um uh were not you know well below other municipalities um you know they were they were competitive perhaps a little bit on the low end but certainly within the range of uh of other cities and towns that uh that we comp to so it's uh it's just a problem finding people that are willing to do that type of work in the summer and the winter and um yeah and and a big piece of this too Cindy is as you we as we know because we sit on the Personnel Board and the rash of uh you know um requests that we get uh you know not only are people looking at salary but they're looking at benefits they're looking at health insurance that's that's the biggest that's the biggest play of all this so if they're if they're looking at a community that's 5050 or looking at a community that's 7525 where do you think they're gonna go so right you know it's not just a 2705 an hour it's correct it's what's built into that that's really correct causing people to sh move all over the place that's yeah you're AB you're absolutely right so so uh that is um that that does continue to be a problem yeah and while we're on salary just to just to recap too so the the town engineer position is not a new position in the budget this year so it was it's in the fiscal 25 budget they just the town has not yet hired that town engineer yeah and so at this point they're proposing to fund that open position and actually hire that position the the position that was fiscal that fiscal 23 or 24 25 so it's in the it's in the current year so the one July 1st 24 through June 30 25 it's this year's budget that position is currently going to be before the Personnel Board tomorrow uh to change the job description for that position to be a little bit more uh encompassing of overseeing perhaps other departments the select board has not um completely signed off on that yet it's it's um a request before the Personnel Board to look at that job description and it would oversee potentially and I want to use the words potentially because once again the select board has not signed off on this but it has been discussed uh to oversee uh Cemetery um uh the cemetery Highway and potentially the transfer restriction so uh but that'll be a matter of discussion tomorrow to that position great thank you Sydney okay Gary so you've got more other non-personnel expenses that are less uh less dollars but nonetheless we'll let you go continue on yeah so um you know he's gone up a little bit in Road repair maintenance um just the cost of everything you know as you know like asphalt everything's up uh Fuel and so on and so forth well fuel's down but asphalt is way up uh gas and oil um Tim uh Jim F felt it was uh okay to reduce that a little bit so uh he reduced that a little bit down uh uniforms and um and clothing that's gone up and uh let's see he's reduced sight and building Improvement uh replace additional equipment what he's you know what what their biggest their biggest hurdle right now is repairing these old vehicles and if you go down there say wow you know 198 you got trucks on there from the 1980s and they're still running I mean and there's a cost of maintaining that now because you can't find pots for that anymore and if they break in the line of service now you got to bring a replacement vehicle in that's just five years older so it's not you know it's not conducive to um repair these vehicles too much longer uh and replacing these vehicles now it's it's an arm and a leg I me you're talking $100,000 now for set up for a plow and and a and a uh and a dump truck you know that's that's not not heard of uh so you know they do the best they can they I went I've been like I said I've been down there they replace blades on plows they do their own break jobs they do their own oil changes just to try to save the town a few more bucks and uh kudos to them and the GU the guys and girls that work down there so that's his budget as far as um the overall budget for non-personnel and uh General expense MH thanks Gary uh Al you've got your hand up I I do and Gary I'm glad you brought up about repairing uh and the guys maintaining the stuff and I and I'm the Le on to the fire department but speak often to the police department as well and I'm sure there's other departments um we don't know as a town just how much we are being saved by the people that work there every single day the ones that that put bubble gum and rubber bands on these things to to keep it to to keep them running to keep our budget in intact so I don't want to I don't want to go you know over the top but I'm I'm glad you brought that up because it is I think it's extremely important and we should probably have a line item budget in the budget to just let people know what what what are being done to keep to keep our agent um equipment going it's it's it's really is phenomenal yeah I can tell you in this department alone is probably well north of $100,000 year annually because you know you look I mean they're doing you walk in there they're doing equipment repair that's should be brought out to a third party and you know now what does that cost you know5 $20,000 a whack they're doing it all in house so yeah there's a level of dedication there I think that you know they they've done it for years years yep so a shout out to all of them I don't care who it is whether it's the printer in in the you know at the town hall or whether it is the uh uh fire department or highway department or whatever they really are dedicated uh people and they and they deserve our respect and not not questioning a lot of stuff that we do thanks Al anything else on the highway budgets well thanks Gary for presenting much appreciated okay the snow and ice you want to do snow and ice yeah we can do snow and ice absolutely yeah I mean that's quick right it's been warm not much to it right yeah so uh you know um snow ice excuse me salt has gone up uh tremendously and they stockpile it as much as they can down there and now they use a blend of salt and sand at one time was strictly sand uh now they use more salt than they do sand um so uh it's at 150,000 for the year but as you look at fy2 there's really nothing used um it stayed level so they're figuring you know another mile winter will get us through it's the only budget you can deficit spending so was important to know so because you can never predict yeah yeah thank God for global warming at least we don't doesn't feel so warm today no not at all so that's it for the highway all right thanks Gary y great terrific okay um all right so that wraps up our budgets for the uh our department budgets for tonight um just kind of looking ahead um I'm just kind of jumping ahead while I'm thinking about budget so we do have a meeting scheduled for next week and the only dep Department budget that we have scheduled is the building department and I think we've already determined that uh the building department uh may not even be available and I I know the administrator is not available next week so uh we may want to uh cancel that and then our next budget meeting is February 11th with Westport community school so th and then that should pretty much wrap up our department budget meetings so we've just got through the bulk of it tonight um are we gonna have the Fe Committee in you know I it's been on there to be scheduled I mean they have they haven't been scheduled so I I can't get them to come in if they're not scheduled um I'm not sure who the leason is on that one that if maybe someone can reach out to Sean that would be helpful um who's the lest on to that committee I'm not sure either okay y was that to the building department uh we were talking of the beach committee Beach committee okay we don't have the scheduled I mean they're primarily um their own fund but um right they're yeah Morey call than anything right exactly I'm not sure who that is but I don't mind what beach is not under recreation no it free standing I'm not sure who's speaking [Laughter] all right so uh back to our our our agenda so the second item on the agenda was any discussion of the fiscal 26 budget I don't know if anybody had any questions or thoughts or uh anything we certainly talked about the fiscal 26 budget within our conversation so anything the only thing i' ask I think we're premature in terms of the governor's budget but we were talking about roughly this time last time we met I assume nothing has come out not that I've heard but I did I think it was around this time is the expectation so maybe something will happen this week um because Gary didn't you say the MMA is having a meeting or some there's some something going mma's meeting um Thursday Friday Saturday and usually the governor will go up there and uh talk about the highlights of the budget so um she'll you know she'll talk about key key drivers and this and that so we'll get a good sense of what um maybe the Cherry she even starts to look like you know right okay okay so within a week we'll have some number A Little Closer not not directly relevant but not good news I saw on the press that the state has to repay the fed's $2.1 billion right it's over over the last next 10 years over 10 years years right yeah for what that's right big number what is that for misapplying funds misappropriation of unemployment unemployment funds right from um during covid uh it was I believe it was during covid times that uh the state misused uh some federal money uh towards unemployment that uh they weren't supposed to yeah they're remember this issue came up last year and and they weren't sure how it was going to get settled they'll lay they they'll probably go into the stabilization for that which is not good yeah right I think that the new Administration is not Terribly Happy with Sanctuary States right right yeah I'm sure they'll they'll well we'll we'll we'll see in a week we'll see where that goes um Karen may I just yeah to get my calendar so we're not meeting next week is that is that true or am I making it up well the only item on the agenda was the building department but so we don't have any department meetings and it might be a little too early to be discussing a budget number because we won't have anything so I that's fine so the the fourth so the fourth then is is is our next uh kind of heavy meeting is that is that correct so our current schedule was to actually meet the 28th and then take the fourth off and then meet the 11th but we could switch it and take potentially the fourth might be a good time because we may have budget numbers that from from the Town Administrator that we could be looking at so that might be a good date maybe I'll just wait I'll just wait for your your your directive then as far as uh you know what we do wait to call the shair yes that's right let's kind of pencil it into our Tuesday night uh R and then we can see if we have information for it or not gotcha okay great thank you would be the 11th uh with the school and gotcha that's great um I think the the the thought would be that meeting would be an inperson to the extent our members can attend uh and have a hybrid option in case someone from the general public or a member was Ill or couldn't attend then you be able to to to go on does that work for everybody yes okay I'm on vacation that weeken okay note that in the calendar for the 11 we'll miss you are you sure about that yes I am I am sincere absolutely um I enjoy the inperson meetings I I can't wait till they come back I know I I I I would enjoy having uh having more of them occasionally all right well we can certainly do that at the pleasure of the committee but not on a night like tonight right all right so uh the next item was any committee and Lon updates does anybody have anything to share on that front no put your hand up yeah yeah the no I I just that that this afternoon cipc uh has a recommendation that that's coming to the finance committee of the uh the capital Improvement um uh you know items if you will from the different departments and so we agreed on that we we settled it and uh we're not going to meet anymore unless it needs to be wow that's early so that's terrific congratulations on that well it it it's always easy when you have some excess money to be able to to to sprinkle around but right but yeah so I just wanted to bring that up um um so yeah that's terrific well great we look forward to that thank you uh any other committee updates I don't think so okay um the next item was to approve the January 14th 2025 minutes I read through them today and I I I wanted to I want old as we can one second sorry um I I had a couple of comments in the the discussion with the Town Administrator that I'd like to kind of just uh so I'd like to hold on approving those I have some edits that I'd like to make to those um so we can pass through those I have no correspondence um to report we've already talked about our next meeting schedule and our next agenda uh so if anybody has any future agenda items you can email me I have nothing else to say anybody else have anything to say other than a motion to address and I think we got a second on that right we got five seconds on that all right so Al I uh Hugh Hugh Mort than I Gary I think Gary's Frozen he definitely looks Frozen Okay so appropriate is Zach Frozen too no no Christopher Christopher Thrasher ey Duncan D lot hi all right and Gary still looks Frozen so we'll uh we'll go without we'll we'll end the meeting without him and and the polar vote I didn't vote you didn't vote Cindy Brown sorry I keep forgetting you I'm down the tonight thanks everyone good night every good night