Welcome everyone. This is the finance committee meeting. It is Tuesday, November 18th, 2025. It's 6:33 and I'd like to call the meeting to order with a pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to
the republic for which it stands under God, >> indivisible, liberty, justice for all. >> Under Mass General Law, chapter 3A, section 20F, this meeting is being recorded. On March 28th, 2025, Governor
Healey signed into law a bill which extends the temporary provisions pertaining to open meeting law to June 20th 27. Specifically, this further extension allows public bodies to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the public body physically present at a meeting location
and to provide adequate alternative access to remote meetings. The language does not make any substantive changes to the open meeting law other than extending the expiration date of the temporary provisions regarding remote meetings from March 31st to June 30th,
2027. Well, welcome everyone. Um, I'm going to do a roll call, let everyone know who's here tonight. We have to do that with a remote meeting. So, we have Al. >> Hi. >> We have Zach Leru.
Isaac, we have Nancy Hen Cross. So, this is your first meeting. Welcome, Nancy. >> Thank you. Good evening. >> Thank you. Hugh Morton. >> Um Cindy Brown. >> Yep. >> Christopher Thrasher and myself, Karen Rouse. Uh absent tonight, Gary Carrero
cannot join tonight. And uh Duncan Law indicated he should be coming in around seven. So, we'll we'll watch for him. All right. Um, so we have a late um, meeting tonight, so we'll be kicking
into gear uh, soon in December, right? Uh, I wanted to share with everyone. The first thing was uh, Jim Hartnett, our outgoing town administrator, put together a free cash certification
memo. um if everyone had had a chance to look at it, it becomes more um applicable as we get into the budget season. But free cash was certified and as Jim uh expressed in the memo, uh it's
it the free cash is derived from primarily two things which is the turnback of budgets and the uh additional uh revenue from some sources that were above that was budgeted. So that's what contributed to that free
cash as as every year. Um, speaking I think just um I didn't invite Jim here tonight, but um I I believe we have a new town administrator that's starting at the end of December. So we should probably um I think Jim's
going to stay on until at least that transition point. So maybe our next meeting we can invite Jim to our meeting and give him a big congratulations and and uh he can update us where he is on
the budget. So, um, as far as I know, he has already met with all the departments and has has kind of putting together a first draft of the budget. And so, he's going to be compiling that. Uh, and
according to our schedule that he put forth, it should be mid December, he would be presenting his first draft to the select board at that time. And then we'd get a copy of that, too. And again, that's extremely early in the budget
process. The state revenues are not known. There's going to be many um big expenses that have not been materialized yet, whether it's health insurance or other insurance and the diamond assessment. So, there's, you know, there's going to be a lot of big
placeholders, but we'll have a first draft at that point. >> Okay. Any questions or comments on Jim's memo at all? >> Okay. Well, I think when you know when
we do the department budgets, it's helpful to have the turnbacks to understand um what drives some of the turnbacks and to to get an understanding of their budgets more. So, we'll have that with us. Uh okay, I'll move right along.
Um I put together so I since the last meeting that we had I sent uh as I do every year send uh a calendar to all the department department heads and ask them to pick their dates uh for the
scheduling the meeting. So we've heard from I'm going to call it up one second. So, the only ones that have not yet responded or been scheduled are town hall and the cemetery, which usually the town administrator does those with us.
And so, we can either ask Jim to do those or the new town administrator can do those with us. Um, depending on Jim's availability. Um, and then the highway department has not scheduled theirs, but Gary said he's working with the highway department and
will he'll get that scheduled. And then we have not scheduled the beach committee yet. So that one's still pending. So in terms of everything else, so we're going to I'll just read this through. So and then uh this way in case anybody who is listening is interested
in our schedule so then they can write down some dates any anyone from the general public. So on Tuesday, December 9th, we have shellfish and marine services, the board of health transfer station and animal control in the building
department. On January 6th, we have veteran services, library, council and aging and IT. On January 13th, we have police planning
board, town clerk, register, voters, and the treasur collector and debt. On January 20th, we have the fire department and recreation and the assessors. And then on January 27th, we have the
town accountant and uh review of revenue. We have no meeting scheduled for Tuesday, February 3rd. Um, and then on February 10th, we have the Westport schools. And that should wrap up our meetings.
>> Okay. >> Okay. That's um and what what I started to do last year on the agenda, I I was putting down next meetings to list those dates. So just in case anybody wanted to come
into uh the finance committee and talk about any budgets, anyone from the general public or anybody can come. So at least people have a knowledge of uh what we're discussing on those dates. And again, these dates are tentative. They could change, but that's what our
our schedule is uh at the moment. All right. Um, next item up is we're moving through our quick. Uh, so the next item on our agenda is just lay any committee and lay us on updates if
anybody has anything to discuss. >> So just >> pardon me. Go ahead please. Go ahead. I'm no go ahead. >> Just because I'm new, I I did get my committee assignments and I'm the liaison. Um, am I my thought process is
because I'm not familiar. It's first time on FINCOM. Am I reaching out to like I have recreation veterans. Am I reaching out to them and scheduling a time where I meet with them, go over their budget so I understand what they're doing and ask questions so that I can potentially give clarifications?
What's the purpose of the liaison? And am I am I to reach out to them? Is that how how I'm supposed to do it? Thank you for um for bringing that up. So yes, so the leasons um it's helpful um to to touch base with them to to see
in to to see if anybody if they have any questions on anything. But definitely you each of us as a >> if you can hear me I can't hear you at this point. >> Can anybody else hear me? >> Yes. >> Yeah, we can hear you. Yeah, >> we can hear you.
>> And we could hear you Mr. Morton. Can you hear us? H you >> now you're back. >> Okay, good. Okay. Um, so yes, so it would be helpful for you to reach out to them to introduce yourself to let them
let everyone know you're the leazison and if they have any questions and for you to get to know their budgets as well. So in case there's anything that's unusual, you're you're another help to help explain it to the finance committee if if there's something um that needs
further explanation. And mostly I would say folks have been really good about getting materials to us early because my goal is always when we have a meeting on Tuesday to have try
to have all the materials in our Google folder by the Thursday before the meeting. So this way we have plenty of time to review that so we're not getting something right at the last minute. Um so um that's helpful too. So if somebody
hasn't submitted their budget or their memos to to the leasons to work with uh to make sure that we're getting them so this way we have all the materials but it's usually pretty seamless. >> It's pretty seamless. >> Zach, maybe you can since you're a newer
member and um you've asked the same questions and maybe you can describe it if I if I haven't appropriately if you don't mind. >> I think you cover all basics pretty well. Um, every department is different, right, in terms of what their budget
needs are and how much there is to review. Some are lighter than others. Um, it's nice that you started the schedule where you send the reminder out. So, it's not like the past where we have to reach out individually, schedule a date with them, and then reach out to you. So, that's super helpful.
>> Um, yeah, that's that's about it, I guess. just let them know that you, you know, if they have any concerns, they can bring it up to you and you can kind of be the the the middle person between the two departments and that's about it.
>> Nancy, do you have the beach committee as your one of yours? >> I do. >> You do? Okay. That one um we were >> Why are you laughing? I don't mean to I don't I don't mean to be it's only only
because Shawn can be very elusive. >> Uh so you know Sean Sean is the the contact person for that Sean Leech and he's difficult to track down sometimes and um >> I know where to find him at 8:00. He's locking the gates.
>> He's locking the gates. That's right. I'm not sure he's doing that in November, but um uh but yeah, um he maybe during the winter. There have been years where he's never made it to the committee, and I think last year was one
of them, as a matter of fact. So, um good luck to you to get him to a date and get him here. So, that's uh it's not that it's difficult. He he's is in so many places, so many different times. So, >> yeah. and he and he's a really good guy
and he's very engaging. It's just a question of of it's like, you know, you you you break a thermometer and the mercury is on the uh on the table and you try to grab the mercury. Well, that that that would be Sean sometimes.
>> I haven't done that in a very long time. >> I I I did work with him on the campground stuff earlier at the purchase time. So, um I'll accept the challenge. I'll I'll find the Mercury Good. >> Good.
>> Thank you. Yeah, that is the one we and just like Cindy said, we um he he didn't we didn't get a SK him on the schedule last year and then he didn't come in and then uh it was the end of the year and he was looking for a transfer um and it would have been helpful to have reviewed
his budget um a little bit prior to that so uh we could have had an understanding of some of the challenges he was having as a department. My my only follow-up question is is how involved so we watch things evolve and and we watch you know
the beach and the issues that happen in that particular summer. I happen to go to the beach a lot. Um so you think see things evolve you listen listen to people from the town talking about you know we'd like to see this that or the other thing and in the position of a
liaison do you um make some pointers? Hey, have you thought about that? Have you do do you bring that up or are you waiting for them to give you their budget or are you trying to set make some suggestions to probably improve things within the budget that they have or maybe these are the things that they
need to look to do in the future that you know come come up often before the board every year and we try to do one-time spending. Maybe if you did a fiveyear plan and you play you know I know like on the beach they just got a new vehicle out there. they've needed
needed it for a very long time. Um so there are things like that um that you know maybe a little bit more um foresight and projection and I don't know how you know as a liaison member how involved fin is on that at all.
>> I think the answer to all of that would be yes. So I think you know there's a balance from um Bencom's responsibility is not to manage a a department operationally but we can certainly offer suggestions or you know thoughts on what
the best use of spending the money is. So I think you know anyone should be open to feedback and questions and so I think all of that's fair. Um, so I think it's all fair.
>> Sharon, if you can see me, I'm think I'm here. >> Yes. >> Offer a few comments for uh Nancy. I've been the police department for a long time. I don't plan to I don't don't
suggest that I am expert in police matters but I think a reaction from the um committee's view as it were things that we that to the liaison that I think the committee would be interested in or not so interested in
>> things that look a little peculiar and so we may want to explain this a little more rather than things that seem pretty obvious and don't waste time on that sort of a reaction on behalf of the committee in advance but also little coaching if you will to
the U department as to how best they can make their case to the committee. >> Yeah. And I think that's fair. You know, as as you as as you meet with Sean or any one of us meet with the leans, those
could be one-on-one questions and that might help. um facilitate a department to put together a memo to explain their operations or things that they're challenged with that they're looking on and then that comes to us as kind of the
presentation there. So that might be a one-on-one conversation that you kind of help guide that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Also another example, >> the police department for years a question of cruisers, take-home cruisers, etc. on the face of it that
isn't apparent to the ordinary citizen. There's a good reason for it and if we'll do it this year if necessary, but to suggest they need to explain it in advance rather than waiting for somebody to say just what's going on here, etc. >> Right.
>> Okay. >> I would agree. I I would agree, Nancy, that that what everybody has said is is appropriate that that even though, you know, we want to stay in our bucket and not, which I didn't do quite as well as I should have a year or two before,
um opinions, suggestions, just the the banter back and forth uh helps inform the individual department. So I would I wouldn't I wouldn't suggest for a second
that you didn't give their the opinion to you know whomever. Um, uh, I had a had a good meeting about a week or so ago with Bill Chase and gave him my opinion, which I'm I'm usually very
reticent and and and I don't really give my opinion to anybody as as as most of you know, but when I did, I g I gave the opinion of of a couple of things he was thinking about. And of course, Danny Baldwin and I um see each other quite
often. uh fire chief for example and we'll just bat things back and forth and I think it's important for both of us not not just in terms of the financial part but also giving a sounding board because a lot of these department heads
don't have the sounding boards that we would like to necessarily think you know they do there's certain things they just can't talk about in confidence uh that make a difference to their departments So, you know, I I would uh walk softly
and carry the uh the big stick. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? Any other comment on that? Thank you, Nancy, for bringing that up. So, it's always um it's always helpful and I try as we uh have new members when something new comes up, I try to help
describe things. um not only for the new members but also for the general public that might be watching it that might not know what a year-end transfer is or you know some what a reserve fund is and so thank you feel make sure you ping us if
you're ever ever have a question on something so thank you uh all right so the next item uh well we were still on committee updates so was there any other um committee updates only that I've spoken to the two major
committees of of mine fire and pardon me um marine services. Uh Theo and and the assessor's office and the treasurer, they're pretty self-contained. I mean, they you know, we've had a quick conversation, but uh you know, they're
they're good. I mean, they're all good, but I mean, they in particular don't require a lot of uh um handholding, so I think I'm okay. >> I was telling the police department is now more familiar. Me, son's been on
board for a couple years now, so more familiar with the process. CPC really doesn't have anything yet. December will be a meeting when more things come forward to be to be discussed and thought about. Great. Al, you're on the capital
improvement, right? >> Yes, I am. Yes. >> Are where how are you guys doing in that process? >> We're doing extremely well. No, thank you, Cara. We're doing extremely well. Um everything uh
really seems to be ahead of schedule and we have been waiting for the uh the final pardon me tally as far as uh you know my most beloved uh phrase free cash
and you I would and and so the next meeting is really going to we're going to start coming down to the number one number two number three on the I did tell Bill Chase and uh of course it's
going to be outed in a uh you know public zoom today that you know the the idea of the $600 to $700,000 fire boat probably isn't going to fly but
in in the >> uh yeah oh but there's a lot of other things I mean in general I think everything is doing extremely well and and you know Dick is a is a graded uh chair. Um uh you know Jim of course is
Jim and he's wonderful. So yeah it's it's rolling along. >> Do you think you'll because I think it's January right where you wrap it up. So you'll have a new town administrator probably >> to take it all the way home. Right.
>> Exactly. And and uh and I think that we will be wrapped up. I mean, unless I'm wrong, we're at the point right now where we already have all or the vast majority of the requests in place. And now it's a question of prioritizing,
you know, who gets the pickup truck, who gets the dump truck, who gets the pumpout boat. You you you Yeah, we all know that the drill, but but that is that's on the horizon. >> Yeah. Good. Good. >> Yeah. Yeah. We're in good shape.
>> Terrific. Great. Um, so I know, um, on the long-term building committee side, um, I know we had talked, um, a month or two ago that we wanted to schedule a meeting with the select board. Um, so I
can, um, I can kind of >> resurface that to kind of see what what makes sense for us. Um, so I can talk to the select board again. So we we're we're kind of on hold because the meetings were on hold. So I'll uh I can
follow up with that. >> Any other committee? >> Can I ask Al a question on capital improvements? >> Yeah, sure. Al on capital improvements. Um, has there ever been a I mean, and I haven't I haven't sat on that board even
when I was on the school committee. Um, has there ever been a discussion about using the special purpose line item to with a capital improvement plan of we have building department, you have fire, you have police um to build in
um you know when when are we going what what is the life expand you know for this backhoe for this particular especially the bigger pieces of equipment >> and it saying okay it's going to cost about $700,000 say like the fire boat going to cost $700,000.
So if this is something that the town believes that it needs, you can start to set up from the capital improvements a special purpose line item that's carried year to year that we contribute to >> as a town and then you're able to buy the item that you want. And I know that
like I was big on using it for special needs. I thought that that was really important to have it as a fail safe, but we don't other towns seem to use it more and I don't know if that's part of the discussion if that's where it is in that particular board.
>> All right, I will answer that that the discussion is definitely there. It's on the table. However, I have only been on for two years. So I I I can't go back into the ancient history. Having said
that, I'm going to put Cindy on the spot. She nodded her head because she's been on prior to that. But before I go before I Yeah. before I go with that, >> it's an excellent point for the simple
reason that I I am frankly sick and tired and I think most people are of if you don't use it this year, you you know, if you don't spend it, you don't use it, you don't have it and whatever. and and and building a fund is to me the
smart the financially uh astute thing to do. So, I'm going to kick it over to Cindy if you don't mind and uh let her answer. >> It it it's only it's only been within the last few years that we've had a good
balance in the um in the free cash or the available funds to do that. And if and Karen, correct me if I'm wrong. Last year, didn't we put some money in a stabilization account, a capital stabilization account, right? So, yes. Um, so we have started to do that. It
takes a lot, as you can imagine, and we may have only put a h 100,000 in it. Maybe it was 150. It takes a while to build it up, but it it is something that fortunately we've had the benefit of having a you know an ample number in the
last couple of years to to be able to do that. Um and it would be great if we can continue. In fact, if you look at the um town administrator's report, he even lays out kind of a uh a menu, if you
will, of how that free cash could be or should be allocated. Um, and whether or not it specifically I don't have the me memo here in front of me. Whether or not it specifically said a a a capital stabilization account, there was there's
certainly some set aides there, including the the the special needs account and some other accounts. So, u it it would be great if we could continue to do that. I mean, I think uh a few years back they started doing the five-year plan uh which had not been in
place uh up until a few years ago. Uh and once again, as you said, Nancy, identifying the um life expectancy of an asset. I mean, even something uh whether it be small or big, departments have to think about that so it doesn't
>> creep up on them and all of a sudden they realize they need a h 100,000 even 50,000. I mean, can throw somebody's budget off. So, it's um it's important that we get everybody thinking along the lines just as you as you describe, Nancy, I think it's a good point to
bring up again. Yeah. >> Yeah. I just, you know, because I wanted to ask because I really think, you know, if you look at the free cash in the last several years and we're always saying, well, we never know it's not going to be that much. if had we projected out, you
know, I think that people rather than putting a big item on and saying, "Oh, we need this." And they see a plan and the plan to build towards the purchase of that, the transparency of that the, you know, letting them know about it. This is what we're doing, putting the
money, then then free cash can be used for some other things while we save towards things that the people know that this is coming and they vote for it and it's advocated. So, um I don't know. I I found it fascinating and the only reason it's not like I'm Einstein on this. I
know a couple of other people that serve um on town councils and and and they have really talked to me. I've talked to them about this, >> right? >> And how it the you know the f the famous one of course is Swansea that built a
$24 million library by saving free cash. you know, they've been saving their money for several years and they paid cash for a library and didn't borrow any money for it. So, it's um >> and even if you don't have money in that particular year, you're not forced to
contribute to that line item. If you don't have it, you don't contribute to it. And maybe your goal is to do a h 100,000 a year, but maybe you can only do 20,000 one year or 50,000. It's there. It's on your budget and it's carried year from year. And I just think
people always get shocked at town meeting when they see those one-time expenditures. So, right, that's why I brought up the question, but it's not my committee. I'm just, you know. >> No, it's good. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, it's terrific. I mean, just as as as Cindy said, it's it's really only
been a couple of years that we've we've seen a fiveyear plan at least to try to look out. Um, I think the whole budget process has been so narrowly focused and just trying to focus on balancing the budget and for for this year and and you
know, I've I've always been an advocate of a five-year plan and you know, you you you can't put it all in one budget because you got to think about next year and and so um so with with a five-year plan and just as Cindy had said, we
started the capital capital stabilization fund. So, we're starting to get those dollars in there, but um but I think you're right. The next step is to say, well, what what's the plan to do with those dollars once there's sufficient dollars in there? Um how
what's the plan for those? >> Madam Chair, I just want to add I agree with what's being said. I think the history is that the departments are very good in fact at turning back what they haven't spent. So there's not a matter of trying to uh
pry the money out of their grasping hands to get it in. It's a combination of a balance here, but we're starting from really cooperative approach of not trying to spend it. So I'll get it next year. >> Right.
When I looked at the free cash though, I mean, I see I saw the amount of turnbacks, but the bulk of it is from where you project your budget and how much you use of it when you budget it. If I'm maybe I'm misunderstanding it,
but I saw the number 78% um as the number uh that was used for uh the estimate on the receipts that the town would receive. They they budgeted for 78%. Am I reading that correctly or
I do don't >> Yes. No. So that was the the revenue side. So >> um not including property tax. >> Yeah. >> Not including the property tax though. >> I think Hugh was speaking of the department expense turnbacks the you know that the funds that don't are
appropriated that aren't spent. >> No, I understand that. But saying the bulk of free cash isn't that it's not the turnbacks. there was $660ome,000 um primarily from excise tax, motor vehicle excise tax. That's always the
biggest moving target >> um depending on your view of the economy. There was a time where we were I shouldn't say we the town administrator's budget adopted by the select board had roughly 98% of what was
collected the prior year was carried forward to the to the ensuing year uh as far as what was estimated to be received in excise tax. Um, and that was, you know, during COVID, it became very, um,
uncertain as to whether or not people were going to be buying new cars, whether or not um, collections would would hold up. And so, the town administrator started scaling that back somewhat uh, as far as what percentage
of the prior year's collections would hold true in the following year. um and has adopted a relatively I won't say very conservative but a conservative method of calculating what
may come in the following year and in this particular year you know I guess people would still leasing cars and whatnot they're all new cars and I had a conversation about this earlier today that everyone drives around a you know a fairly new car three to five year old
car and then turns it in for another one. And as people continue to do that, the excise tax really holds up very well because it's after the third year that it drops off significantly as to how much you pay. So it that's always a
difficult one to gauge and the last few years our free cashes has held up because that number has been uh estimated a little bit more on the conservative side. So that was a big factor. return backs were a big factor
and insurance um the every year Jim is told that uh insurance premiums could go up 10 15 20% and when the bill comes in they haven't so he budgets he doesn't know today what the bill is going to be
next July the insurance company tells him it could be up 15% he bills in a factor number and it turns out the bill is not that high so I think there was about $500,000 in savings in um our medical insurance. So those are the big
factors. >> Is it the same across the board every year, Cindy? Is it the same? Is it the same like excise tax? Is it we do this percent every year or do they look at or the town administrator looks at you know like like the income tax code interest
for vehicles can be written off now, >> you know, for the next year. So you would think there would be more activity perhaps because of that. Do they take that into consideration or do they just keep the number and those numbers don't move?
>> I don't I don't think it's as hard and hard and dry as that. I mean I you know it's it it's the town administrator that comes up with that number and I'm I'm giving you what my interpretation has been through conversations with him. But you know there's a little bit of a fudge
factor in there. you know that if okay if you're trying to find 20,000 could you go to that bucket maybe if your experience level has been consistently that you've been underestimating um I think there's a little bit of a fudge factor there but not a lot because
it's the one area that you really want to be on the right side of instead of the wrong side of because if you overestimate it and it comes in low then you you're double dipping into the next year now. So now you really you've really created a big problem for
yourself the following year because now you've set up a budget with a number that's much higher than it than is sustainable. And if you if you don't collect enough and you run short, then
you have no choice but to double up the following year to make up for that because you can't run a deficit. So it um you're playing with fire a little bit if you if you go too high. >> Yeah. Or it could be worse. I mean if
you estimate revenue more aggressively and then it comes in shorter than you anticipate. You could have expense cuts that you have to then do in that year to balance the budget. So it might not fall to next year. It can also impact
>> that it could also impact the current year that you're in where you if you don't have the revenue that you thought is going to come then you may have to cut your expenses in the last three months of the year. So you never want to be in that sort of situation. >> Yeah. Because the money for excise taxes
don't come in until April, late April. The bills go out in March. So we don't know until April whether that target has been hit or not. So it's a late target and if you as Karen said if you come up short u then you could really be faced
with some significant problems and now you've established a a budget base in that current year which is not sustainable going forward. So it's uh it's kind of a double whammy. >> Yeah. And just you know in the the budgeting at 78% or some amount is by
design. So the intent the intent is to generate more revenue than anticipated to then generate a surplus which would then generate free cash to be used for you know what free cash purposes should be. So the intent is we're not
sandbagging it. It's not by design to fudge factor it. It's by design to you want a surplus to happen. And so in fiscal 25, as Jim had mentioned, that came in at 78%. In fiscal 26 that we're currently in
that July 1st, >> we he got more aggressive on budgeting revenues. So, um, so, so potentially if everything being equal, that will generate less of a surplus as when
fiscal 26 closes because he he went up to closer to 80 or some some higher number. >> Yeah, I saw that. >> Yeah. >> Al, did you have your hand up and then down and up? I'm not sure if you
>> I did. I'm playing pingpong. No, I'm I'm I'm fine, Karen. Thank you. >> Oh, you're all set. >> Yeah, good. >> All right. Okay. >> Um All right. So,
anything else on that? I don't know how we got on that conversation, but All right. Um any so I don't think um if no other updates uh we can move on to the minutes of October
14th 2025. >> Pardon me, Madam Chair. I I think you were you spoke on the long-term building committee for just a moment and then I immediately of course got kicked off and had to log back in and by then you would move to a different conversation. So I just wanted to mention that
>> Mr. I'm sorry. Could you speak up a little bit? >> Just a Yeah, just a kick it up a little bit, Chris, please. >> How's that, folks? Anybody? >> Turn the mic up. Sorry about that. So, uh, no, I I was just You had mentioned a long-term building committee and then I
immediately got kicked off and had to log back on. So, I just wanted to mention um the plan of action right now uh is to have a public meeting in uh on January 22nd. Uh there's also going to be possibly a housing study component
added to what RGB is doing. Uh the plan is again to meet on the 22nd of of January. After that, the long-term building committee is going to uh do kind of a final recommendation with the or to the select board. And at that point in time, that's that's when I think it would be good to have uh a
potential select board uh finance committee and long-term building committee joint meeting. uh the the idea is to have something that is presented to town uh for the uh for the election in April as well as town meeting. So that's kind of where we
are right now as far as where things stand. >> Thank you for the update. I I'm not certain when it makes sense to I mean I I I'd like to have some comments heard before final decisions are made. So, I
you know, I'd like to um hope that our opinions at least go into a discussion of that. So, um I'm not sure it makes sense to wait till it's done, but um >> the only thing I'll say is that the
moment that there's actually something that's got concrete numbers attached to it, uh then it, you know, that to me that that's when it makes sense to have the finance committee involved. right now even with the with the presentation and what you know what I gave the select board a couple weeks ago um and what I
sent to you that was presented I mean all of this it's still there's no official ask there's no official attached to anything yet it's still you know being batted around so that's that's the only thing I I I don't I don't intend to not involve you know the
uh finance committee I just I think it makes sense that once there's actual numbers attached to anything. >> Well, I mean, I think there's there's numbers now and there's concepts now that I think um committee members may
have comments on um or could comment on. I mean, I certainly have a number of questions um and comments from all the information that's already currently available. Well, again, I I think the you know, the
next the next steps is to have another another public meeting uh to go to go over things and and frankly, you know, that that makes sense that that would be a time to to present questions. Obviously, if you you know, if if you want to bring anything to me, I'll be
happy to answer as best I can. But again, I the key is there's just not a there's no set proposal or set uh set thing to to really uh you know kick around at this point. It's all all just conceptual and you know I just feel
again that the finance committee's role comes in once there's actually some some some actual okay these are the numbers being asked uh being taken to the to the select board uh to uh to potentially put in front of the town. No, I I appreciate that, Christopher, and we've had this
conversation before that you have a narrow narrower view of what the finance committee um traditionally has done. So certainly our responsibility is to make a recommendation on a warrant article. That does not mean that's the only thing
that we do. So, um, in the past when there's been other warrant articles of significance, we've had conversations with the select board throughout the process. Um, even going back to the override, uh, you
know, which is the select board's um, which was the select board's article, they we talked with them to help frame it and work together to try to create an article that would be passable. So they
didn't just exclude the finance committee from discussion until putting it on the warrant and then letting us have an opinion, a recommendation. So we were an integral part of working together to try to frame something and
try to get all the questions asked and answered so that it could be passable. So I understand and you know I'll say again the intent is not to not involve the finance committee until there is a warrant article. What I'm what I'm
saying is the next step in the process uh to get to the point where an actual ask or where a an article is developed where an actual dollar amount is is developed is is that public meeting on the 22nd of January at right at literally right after that that's when I
think it would make sense uh to to bring the finance committee involved. I I I it's not my intention to wait until there already is language for a warrant article. It's it's just more about knowing, you know, what actual numbers uh are are going to be involved and and in the meantime, you know, I would
certainly encourage everyone on the finance committee to uh to to be involved in the process through through the public meetings that are that are scheduled. >> So, >> go ahead, Cindy. Thank you, Christopher. ju just as as another member of that committee uh to to to some degree I'll
I'll defend what Christopher is saying only in that um I think this next public meeting will be far different than the other public meeting that we had in that I I I believe that the committee is looking to get much more definitive
feedback as to which uh which avenue this is going to go as far as the complexity of of the uh uh of the scope of of the project, whether it's going to include a housing component, whether it's going to include
um uh a split apart um campus, whether it's even going to include town hall offices. I mean, there are a lot of moving pieces now. I think we're almost further away from a real plan than we were three months ago
because other factors have kind of crept in a little bit and now uh a new design has come up. Uh this issue about a housing component has come up. So we're pretty far away from numbers, pretty far
away. So, um I I think very soon after the next public meeting, um the committee would have a much better ideas as to what uh what type of plan would be proposed. Uh and I will go on record,
this I hope is the last plan that we put together because we've put we've put together several and they've never gone anywhere. And we'll see if this is one that can actually get some numbers attached to it at some point and get the finance committee's input, get the
select board's input moving all together with the hope of getting a warrant article put together for the annual town meeting. So, uh it will be a tight time frame between January and um and you know late April when the warrant has to
be posted. The select board can open the warrant anytime they want. So if the if the article is not ready by the date that the warrant is closed, they may and they don't have to, they may choose to open it up to insert the the warrant
article. But um any other discussions right now about dollars are very very conceptual. And how how do you anticipate a January meeting, a public meeting to make the
numbers any more real than they would be right now? Well, I think I think it would give us a better sense of direction of tolerance of you know where you know there a better sense of of how big this project
could be or where where the tolerance level will be for uh additional funding. I mean the point that Jake made that I've made many many times every option costs money. How much money are we going to spend? I mean, it's really a question
of of is it is it a tear down number? Is it a very small uh just throw some paint on it and not let really anyone else go in there that that isn't already in there? Now, um or are we really going to spiff it up a little bit to make it code
presentable and code passable so that you can have additional groups in there? Every option costs money. And so, uh, regardless of that, there's going to be some article on the warrant, uh, to for some, uh, amount of money, uh, I would
think to, uh, move move ahead because it cost the school the school, uh, department money. It cost the town money every year. And between what the school spend and what the town spend, we're probably pushing $300,000 a year between insurance and their um, you know, their
expenses to keep the building open. We've got to make a decision on this. It's just it's gone way too long. >> Right, >> Christopher? I didn't I didn't mean to overstep your bounds, Christopher. >> No, no, I wanted to let you go because I mean that's exactly that's exactly my feelings as well. Uh pretty much from
top to bottom there. Uh to directly answer again uh what what you asked Karen as far as how this meeting would would get closer to actual numbers. uh this is going to be a much more structured much more uh you know less of
a brainstorming session type public meeting and a much more structured much more okay here are options presented. Um I do think that there has been kind of an added complexity thrown in with uh a lot of voices would like to see uh some sort of housing component in involved
and I think that the latest design actually uh that came uh which was part of that that presentation that I that I sent to you. Um the latest design has the building uh the side with the gym and the side with the auditorium being
maintained and being repurposed uh with the middle part being demolished. Uh with that kind of opening up, you might have the possibility of having some sort of housing component uh that also still maintains the fields and and and other,
you know, other needed things uh that are on that campus. So, I I I do think it's my anticipation that uh after tomorrow there's an affordable housing trust meeting which I'll be attending and I believe that there's going to be some added uh study an added uh housing
component housing study added to RGB's task uh with the goal of having that presented uh right before the the public meeting and then uh adding the option adding that that option in there on the public meeting for the 22nd. So again, the the goal and I think it's a
realistic goal is that right after that public meeting, we're going to have a sense of what is going to be palatable uh with actual numbers attached and then and then to can discuss as far as how you know how to best approach it with a
>> and of course the wild card the wild card here is the fact that this most recent plan that Christopher referred to that has the main part of the of the school being demolished does not answer the need for a town hall
space. So, you know, that that still leaves a very big gap for the town and not dealing with the uh deteriorating conditions at the annex building and what would the town want to do about
filling that gap. So, it's um there are just so many so many moving parts to this. Christopher, of the um I think the town meeting two years ago appropriated was it $200,000 for consulting fees or how
how are you doing on that with with um >> So I believe there's when RGB was tasked with uh tasked with this this study I I think there was about 175 left 175,000 left in that war
article. There is still a little bit to cover uh what's remaining on with the study, but the um the the me some members of the affordable housing trust mentioned that they will be willing to put in uh a little bit little bit if needed need be to add that that housing
under a quick and to make it happen quickly. So that's uh that's kind of where we're at right now and I expect to have have some more some more to report one way or the other after to uh tomorrow's meeting. Great. Um I just had one
adjacent question to um what you had presented at the select board and I think you said it more ancillary. So I was just kind of curious. You had mentioned that there was potentially a church group or a group going into the
school auditorium on a Sunday or something. Is that >> happening or >> No. So, so there had been a church group that had reached out a couple times uh about using the facility. Um just in in my conversations with Jim um
that unfortunately would would add some some complexities and and maybe have more issues than than might be worth uh uh doing using using it for that. So no, that that was that was a an interest that would had been there. They had
reached out with interest of using the building, but not uh there was there's no plan currently to uh to rent it out to rent, >> right? Because we're we still have the same insurance issues that it the activities needed to be substantially
education and it would seem if a group were to go in that would cause that insurance issue similar to and that's the reason why um as far as I understand the Council on Aging hasn't been able to
go in there to use the space because of that. So, it wouldn't seem an outside group would be able to go in if our own council on aging couldn't get in uh and use the facility. >> And that was my that that was exactly how I felt on the matter. And I believe
Jim concurred on that. And yeah, and yes, as you mentioned, unfortunately, it is a situation where council council on aging activities are considered commercial activities in the eyes of Massachusetts code. So, it uh yes, I I do think that
That's unfortunate because I think the council agent could be utilizing the facility at some you know on some level right now were it not for that for that serious issue. So yes but but again back to the uh back to the situation with
with this this uh use I they are not the first group that have that has reached out in a simil for with a request a similar request to use the facility. So, uh, but again that as as far as I have been told, there are no plans to move
forward with that. >> Great. Thank you. Anybody else? Um, >> you know, I I I would be remiss to say because I was in this a long time ago, but the Council on Aging and their particular uses there and um there could
have been adult education provided through, you know, for the Council on Aging, which would have dovetailed for some use of the space because it was educational. So even if it was having a computer
class or you know whatever that academic piece would have been it would have fit within the definition. I don't know Chris but that's was always my understanding that if there was some academic component to it just like
students in the school they would be able to use the cafeteria um and the spaces within the school as long as there was an academic component. So I don't that's as much as I knew and that was a long long time ago. So I could be wrong and it could have changed by now
>> I think and Christo you can I think the consultants defined the educational use as K through 12 was how they defined it. Right. >> It is and I don't know if that's a recent interpretation but I can tell you uh it is we we're now I think three
opinions deep on usage and and all have said the same thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. Go ahead, Al. >> Okay. Answered. Thank you. >> Yeah. Nancy, I I Pardon me. Excuse me. I'm got a cold. Um I'm not
disagreeing with you at all. I'm not a lawyer. I I don't want to pretend to be a lawyer. I never want to be a lawyer. But it seems to me that that that is gaming the system a little bit when it comes to the the financial uh uh the
overall finances of the buildings in the town. Yeah, we can do ABC and maybe make this work, but the town is still on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars between insurance, uh, you know,
heating, oil, and all the other stuff that goes on. I agree that that a decision has to be made. make a not make not not us but I'm just saying in general make a damn decision live with it and be done with it if we if we
decide to go to the u uh the old high school we still have three other buildings to deal with none of them are worth anything I mean let let's let's just be be honest about it and so uh
it's really not a discussion for the finance committee it's a long-term building committee uh you know discussion but I'm simply saying that this has gone on way too long way too many opinions at
some point somebody's opinion has to to kind of rise to the top if you will and just live with it just live with it >> and if I >> well well I well you say it's gaming I I
I say it's creative al so Okay. Yeah, we we can game we can game the language. >> It's not gaming. It's creative and municipalities have been doing it for throughout history. So, I don't think it's but Chris just was very clear
saying three studies in they don't find that that's a fit and that's fine with me. But to be creative, um I don't I don't you know I I I just think that I'm not getting into this. But it at one hand Chris is saying he wants to do this
and then on the other hand Karen and Cindy are saying well the finance committee needs to see numbers and they need to make an opinion and you're saying that's long-term building job not our so it so is it to wait for them to
come up with a proposal and then at that time ask the questions is that the position that the board the finance committee has >> I'm not I'm not going to weigh in specifically. I just don't believe that is the long that that is the finance committee's position. It all comes down
to how a decision by another board comes in uh to the finances of the entire town. That is that's my position and I don't believe that there has been enough uh investigation if you will about the
Earl school reed road school and another thing we're going to be still stuck with it we're going to be still stuck with it and so we're going to pile in all of
this money 20 30 40 $50 million into the old high school. I will call it that because I would I I went there and would and and so everybody wants to move in and they get the you know the you know the shining
lights and the shining balls and then all of a sudden oh well this is worth ABC D in Central Village or on Reed Road or whatever and you know what it ain't going to happen. I can tell you right now that the value
of the buildings that that all of these experts are talking about have no relation to reality. The only person that wants Reed Road is Potters. The only people that want the um um the
old town hall is nobody cuz it's not worth anything. So, we will have this off conversation, but but I'm just saying that that it it is we're not doing the holistic view of
this whole thing. It's still the bucket of the old damn high school. That's all I keep hearing. The old high school. >> So, there you you know, >> I'm I'm not rendering an opinion on
anything, but I I I think the the piece that I'm struggling with that I'm not seeing is the financial analysis of the project. And so, >> um we are a finance committee and can help provide financial analysis and
that's the part that I'm not seeing um in the presentations. And so, um, that's where I think we could offer some suggestions and guidance or just things to think about or things to,
um, put in a presentation as the framework of the financial analysis. Um, >> so if I can just jump in and say on a couple things here. First of all, I I absolutely agree this has gone on far too long. I am now at the very this is
the last year or going into the last year of a uh an appointment on a long-term building committee. I never thought it'd take us this long to get even this far. But my you know I I am looking at this as there is going to be a question presented to the to the town
either uh hopefully both uh on the election ballot and a town meeting. But one way or the other, the town we deserve or the town deserves to have a say in this. Um, as far as the actual numbers and you know the analysis of the individual buildings, um, that is part
of what has been done. uh that there has been some analysis uh that there has been analysis that was included in previous presentations especially with regard to potential expenditures going forward on the uh the town hall, the town annex uh as well as the council on
aging. Those three buildings specifically were part of of the the analysis and the costbenefit analysis. um the original or I should say I won't even say the original I'll say the first draft if you will of a uh community campus option that came in you know
somewhere around $65 million that did include moving all town offices to the uh the new uh the new what would be the new uh community campus. Um that was met with a little bit uh with a fair amount of skepticism with regard to moving the
town offices. A little bit of push back on that as well. So I I know that while the analysis is still part of what has been done and is is part of what's going to be presented, uh it did not seem that that that it would be palatable to
include moving the town offices into anything that was done with the with the uh the old high school campus at this time. Um I do think it needs to be part of the the options that are going to be presented uh for for the uh the public meeting. But uh you know again the goal
being to have something uh something concrete even if it is multiple options to uh to vote on uh in April and May. So >> Christopher when did it become not palatable for the town hall to move?
I I think it's it's fair to say there was there was a you know there was a great deal of push back with the number that was in involved. Uh it was it was you know 65 to 70 million. Uh I and and I think that um you know I did I a
couple of select board members did mention some concern on on moving of town offices. I I also want to mention that the new um the latest uh design that's been presented might not necessarily mean moving all town offices in, but it does have a sign significant
amount of what I would consider flex space uh space that could be used for for multiple uses including uh potential of town offices. So, you know, all these conversations we're having is is kind of indicative of of the status of of where
this is at right now because I mean, there's so many moving parts. Uh, you know, we're further along than we were six months ago, but uh not, as Cindy mentioned earlier, still not to the point of actually having something concrete to present um just because of
all the moving parts. So, I mean, that's that's where we are right now, and that it's, you know, the goal and the uh the effort is being made to to get it uh get it wrapped up uh at least realistically, it's probably going to be multiple
options presented to the town uh in in the spring. >> And I appreciate that. And I think some of the things that when I say financial analysis, and I know there was a costbenefit analysis that was done, but some of the things that I'm talking
about are, for example, when you had the option of the $70 million option, which would be to move the council on aging in the town hall in the town hall annex into this new facility. the piece that I that I haven't seen
that needs to be part of it is then okay now let's talk about the status of the three buildings we're vacating because that should be part of the plan >> otherwise we're going to be having this conversation seven years from now about those three buildings and what do we do
with those and so if an option is going to be to present a $70 million option consolidating all offices into a base the financial analysis, the complete financial analysis would be to be comprehensive and say we're going to
sell those buildings or we're going to do whatever it is with those buildings. But either if if if people are not willing to sell them or demolish them or then there's a cost to that to maintain those buildings. That all has to be
factored into that option. And that's what I'm I haven't seen as comprehensive options. So when you take that option, you need to be exploring all of those together as a bundle. >> Exactly. >> I agree. Well, well, I I I think I think
that that if if if a certain plan were adopted, that would certainly become a component of it because no matter what, the Earl School is not going to be in existence 10 years from now as a public building um
for people to use on a daily basis. So regardless of what plan takes we go forward with, I don't think that the Earl school is going to be part of the town properties or on on a daily use piece uh you know going forward. That's
just my opinion, but that's purely an opinion. That's not based on on any code issues or any other plan that someone has come up with given how much it it costs. But a vacated building of
the of the annex uh costs a lot less than the than the occupied building of the annex. So um you wouldn't have to heat it as much. You wouldn't have the electricity cost. You wouldn't have as much going on there on a daily basis. So there are a lot of factors that would go
in in it depending on which avenue we go. if it if if the those town offices that are in the annex now do not move to the new the newly renovated school and they have to stay there for a while longer. Well, that's
going to impact the cost. So, it's hard to you know, we could spend a lot of money for on financial people to come up with some of these plans. Once again, this is all being done as everything else is. and even when the new new high
school was built on the backs of people who volunteer their time to do all of these things. So, we're not professionals that work in these fields every day. The consultants RGB was not
tasked with doing a very detailed costbenefit analysis of what would happen to the remaining buildings that would be there if we vacated them. that was beyond the scope of the project of of the of the RFP. So if we want that
detail of an analysis once we've decided which direction we're going we can certainly do that. But once again in my opinion only the residual value of any of those buildings is relatively small. I mean, even the town of Dartmouth is
still sitting on their old police station, and they've done a very good job of utilizing their old schools and and repurposing them, but even they're still sitting on one of their old the the old police station there near um Elm Street um in uh in Dartmouth. So,
there's not much value to the remain remainder of those buildings. I think the existing town hall certainly probably its best and highest use is for its current use. And if there were an addition put on to allow for more space,
that's fine, but that costs money, too. So, if you want to fix up the old school and the town hall, now you're back to some big big bucks again. It's it costs money to get nice things. I mean, Right. >> Right. And and and that's exactly it,
right? So, it's it's it's trying to framework So, you know, I know the current scenario was to leave the town hall and town hall annex to to bring it down to the 48 $50 million, but with that then the voters in the proposal
needs to say we're eventually going to have to spend another 10 or 15 million on renovating an old building that we decided not to vacate. So, we're going to create this next new shiny building, but we're not going to fix. we're going
to stay in the old ones and that's going to cost more. Like we >> Who's to say we're not going to say that though? >> I don't That's what I'm saying. Yeah, there needs to be more financial analysis that's describing the project as a whole. >> Well, we know we know pretty much how
much an addition would be for the town hall. I mean, RGB included um I don't want to say a a a basic estimate, but uh I don't think it was highly detailed. it was in the $10 million range, 1012
million range uh to put an addition onto the current town hall. Uh that varies depending on how much you want to fix up the existing building or just put an addition on. Yeah, they're just getting a brand new HBA system put into town hall. They've had a new roof put on. I
mean, they, you know, they've had some work done there. So, perhaps there is something to be saved there just putting on an addition. That's fine. But and we kind of know what the cost of that is. Um so I don't I don't think a lot more work has to be done to make that
assessment if it were determined that the current the that we just need an addition to town hall and that the renovation of the old high school would not include that which would really bring that cost down. Does the sum of the two is it less than the 70?
Absolutely. I mean, I think, yeah, you're not going to get three beautiful new buildings out of this. You're going to get two renovated buildings plus an addition. So, yeah, the cost comes down a little bit. So, we're learning more as we investigate and explore some of the
options. So, we're not ready to talk about a specific option yet because we don't know which which path it's really going to take uh from from the town's people's viewpoint. What do they want? Do they want nothing? Do they want something? Do they want a little bit? Do
they want a lot? I don't know. I mean, there's some there's a member of the of the select board. I'm not speaking out of school because you said in a public meeting, I mean, he doesn't think that, you know, people are willing to spend any money. Well, we're going to have to spend some money on something. Uh
because we can't just let that building literally rot and have it turn into a fireman's training ground. So, something's got to give. It's an election year. I get it. >> Thanks, Zach. You've had been very
patient. >> Yeah. I just have a couple of questions and I apologize if uh this has already been public, but I just haven't noticed it like regarding um some of the options and the estimates. Has there been like actual bids solicited
um during this process for the work? >> No. And then it it's it's frankly no it's nowhere near being able to put out the RFP or uh bids or anything like that. It this is at this point more of
uh it's more conceptual than anything. So, >> right. So, >> man, no. >> So, there's not really even like very granular granular costs of of what would be in that 68 million or in the 48
million. I'm I'm just trying to understand like what it's projected on and kind of what RGB used for that because you know I remember seeing some of the renderings and it wasn't you know a basic building that's coming from a cost effective you know position like
has even value you know value engineering been discussed at these meetings? Yeah. I mean, so RGB is an architectural and engineering firm. So like they're they're not basing it, you know, they're basing it on their project experience. And and part of the reason
uh at least that I was interested in RGB doing this study is because they have they have taken several of these reuse type situations whether it's school whether it's uh you know municipal buildings police stations they've taken them all the way from conceptual all the
way to completed construction reconstruction. So that's, you know, they're that's where they're getting their numbers and their estimates from. It is not, it's certainly not to the point where it's, you know, line by line nitty-gritty uh >> for for, you know, bid purposes at this
point, but it but it is it is based in the reality of of their experience doing uh exactly this type of work. >> Yeah. because I mean you know of course for something that we're going to present to the town like this this presentation which I think is is is
clear um you have to simplify it right this can't be a 100 you know page slide um but I think it is it does beg the question you know what's what's a highle breakdown even and I wonder if that has
been condensed to this so maybe the question can be posed to them that they could provide us something that we could look at and try to understand and all in the effort of when we do have that town meeting, you know, the the voters who
will ultimately pass or fail, what makes, you know, the Warrant article um can understand this because it is it is tough to look at such a large number and then just see a plan view, you know, with some shaded areas and intent. Um,
and I feel like maybe that's some of the financial data or information Karen's alluding to, at least from from my experience in my background. I'd kind of like to understand because maybe maybe there are some value engineering options. Um, which you wouldn't really
understand until you start soliciting bids or start having somewhat, you know, of a of a design. Just just a couple thoughts. Yeah, I I don't disagree with the with the the concept there. I I think the challenge
that we have and Cindy uh alluded to it earlier is that the charge that RGB was given was not the charge of a project manager was it wasn't the charge of a of soliciting bids. It was it was you know looking at at at concepts looking at the
con conceptual level to try and get uh you know general estimates. I I I agree that that, you know, that amount of detail is is going to be needed, but that's you're not going to get that, I guess, until we move into the project
management phase in mind. Well, but but if it's, you know, conceptual and and they have this experience, then they're basing it off historical data and maybe there's even a a square foot example of a project that they've had that they can
relate the cost to. Um, just so so the town can can understand it because I feel like these large numbers kind of it's easy to scare everybody away. Um I I just look at this and I'm like for what, right? Like I understand the the
idea and the space that we're trying to to provide. Um but there's got to be more that they have that helped them create this with their experience that we've paid for as a town that we can utilize, I guess, is
is my point. So I I will I think there's a lot of there's a lot more detail in in the previous presentations than the one so the one that that was was circulated right now that was literally just uh what I presented to the select board uh as an update. So I mean you're only there's only a few slides in there from
RGB that only have the new uh the new concept that was added. So they have given the number uh repeatedly uh as far as what you're talking about per square foot uh with a build cost. If you're if you're building a brand new municipal building from scratch, you're looking at
$850 per square foot, somewhere in that in that range. If you're talking about uh repurposing, it's it's a little less than half or it's about $400 a square foot. So, I mean, that's that's where that
those have those numbers have been repeated quite some, >> you know, since since we've been at this with them. uh and they've they've shown uh they've shown the committee the uh shown long durability committee the breakdowns on this several times. So and
and and I think you know ultimately what is going to be presented to the to the town um will have at least those high level those those high level uh numbers attached to it. Um, but again, I guess
this is actually a perfect example when you or perfect thing to go back to when we're talking about like the square foot allocation. So, we have concepts that say x amount of square foot for council on aging, x amount of square foot for uh school facilities, but we're not going to know what that exact square footage
is is on a on an actual, you know, blueprint until we get to the the project management side of of actually developing plans and uh you know, going on the the construction side of this. >> No, I appreciate that. And I wasn't like by any means pressing, just inquiring
because I haven't been able to keep up with everything that's been going on at these meetings. And in my head, I'm trying to wrap I'm I'm trying to like visualize how that public meeting for this will go. And I think, you know, I think what Karen's trying to do as well
is just how can we get as much as we can to make this as successful as possible and and as efficient as possible so the town meeting doesn't delay it. I mean the the the meeting doesn't delay a decision even more because there's something that we didn't try to foresee
or or mitigate in terms of confusion. That's it. >> Yeah. And and so when we when we get to preparing right right at the beginning of the year preparing for this meeting um you know I I would like to go I I I I would say that we'll probably uh or I
would like RGB to forward all of the uh you know the details that would be presented uh and and get it to the get the found as well um for for exactly that purpose. I just going back to what the actual charge of
RGB is and was and continues to be. It's it's again it is that topline conceptual uh basis. It's not it's not line by line and it's not creating blueprints at this point. >> So,
>> understood. Thanks. >> Thanks, Zach. Al, did you have your hand up and then down? Okay, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna defer to Hugh and I have a comment, but but Hugh's been waiting a while. >> Go ahead, Hugh. >> I just want to say I think the idea of
getting things together and shoving it into town meeting maybe at the last minute is not such a good idea. Some of us may remember a project about sewers on rude shapes. whether good or bad, there was certainly a feeling in some
areas that it was being forced and people weren't aware of it, etc., which didn't help it to survive and it didn't. I'm not taking a position one way in any of these proposals. But I'm saying simply that I think you need to have as
finished a project as you can estimates. It may be the best you're going to have on cost, but there has to be a price ticket with some degree of reliability for towns folks to vote in favor of spending their money. And even if town
meeting is uh pre predisposed to go along with it, the rest of the town is going to have a say. and something that looks like it may have been rushed through does not have a chance.
>> Well, the one thing I'll say on that is uh five six years later, rushing is I I don't think and as a matter of fact, you know, I I originally wanted when we when we first got the uh the concepts back, I wanted to to push forward with maybe even having a special town meeting this year.
Uh so realistically, logistically, that wasn't going to be feasible. But, um, I I'm certainly determined to send something to a town meeting one way or the other this year. And I think I I do think by the time we get to the warrant being being opened, uh, it's going to be
it's there's going to be enough info there uh, for the town to to make a decision. And and the bottom line with this building and with all town buildings, but specifically with this building, it's been said time and time again, whatever
we do, including doing nothing, is going to cost the taxpayers. It's going to cost town money. There's no way around it. Whatever we do is going to cost money. So >> that's your point of five years is accurate but meaningless. There have been no project that actually has been
considered that the possibility of various projects And so I think my point still stands. >> Well, again, I I I agree. You know, it's certainly not my intention to to present something a week before the town meeting and say, "Okay, go vote on it now." But
uh you know, but I do think we're at the point where getting something in front of uh in front of the town in the springtime uh with enough time to to consider the options is is is a realistic and necessary goal. At this point,
>> I'm also talking about perceptions as much as realities. And if you're going to do a vote of the town, perceptions make a lot of difference. >> That's it. >> Mhm. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah, I I I agree with you, Hugh. I you
know, I think it's the committee talked about things for for five years. Um but in the since RGV came on is when the activity really happened and it's been a very short period of time and we're
trying to move to um an article and it feels a little it feels a little fast. I agree. >> I I I gotta absolutely disagree at this point. I mean this has gone for gone on
for so long. uh you know even if the even if the article is do you want to spend money to uh do one of these options or do you want to spend money on demolishing it at this point I mean it's costing us I think it's more than 300,000 it's closer to 400,000 every single year and it's only going to get worse so I mean I don't know how much
longer we can put it off >> well I think there's a difference and I and I don't disagree Christopher and and I think everyone appreciates that you've been the one that's helping lead the charge on the committee where the committee needed some direction. But you
know there's a very big difference in my opinion where you know one solution might be to mothball it or demolish it and that will cost whatever five $6 million. There's a very big difference to then take it to repurpose it and then
ask the town to spend $70 million. There's a very big difference there. >> Yeah. And you know, and I'll ask the question. It seems like the the R the RGB's job was to how do you repurpose the
building? In my opinion, it should be what's the best use of all the buildings? And that's not the question that was asked of them. So, we're we're trying to come up with a reason to repurpose and spend the money
to repurpose, not what is in the best interest of all buildings together. And there's a very big difference. >> Very big difference. I I really want to push back on it a little bit because that was actually absolutely part of what RGB was tasked to do was to
evaluate and talk about the life the life expectancy the uh the per square footage maintenance cost going forward projected out for all three buildings and they've done that >> well I Christopher I'm going to push back right now because I I I've been sitting in the background which is
unusual for me I I don't think they did it >> how's that I really don't think they did the proper job. I was looking for a complete analysis of all the buildings and the costbenefit ratio of everything
that would would would happen with A B C D and no all I saw all I saw from them is this push towards the old high school who >> you know and do we rip this out? Do we
do this? Oh, we're not gonna talk about this or this or this. And and I don't think if if if their their RFP was not written correctly, that's on us. If it was written correctly and they didn't do
the job, it's on them. But I just don't feel that we have a proper analysis of of you know the entire cost the holistic cost of all of the buildings.
So I you know I don't want to go on a rant but you know I appreciate the you know the committee fabulous work lots of of of people coming in. we've got to do this, we got to do that. But at a certain point, the
consultants, which it isn't just the the latest consultant that we spent what, 200 grand or whatever, we have spent probably close to three millions of dollar of dollars worth of grants on
this damn building. When you add up all of all of them, it's not just this latest. I mean, it's it's gotten it's gotten kind of ridiculous. >> Well, you know, and I I agree that
especially when you talk about the grants that have been put forth to the uh the annex and the town hall. I mean it it is it is significant and and so the only thing that I'm I'm concerned about is if
I I'm just I I don't know if if you have seen what was presented way back when I I at this point we're we're months beyond when they presented the uh the the the analysis of the of the buildings the individual build the
>> I yeah well I I I believe that I do but uh But go ahead, keep going. >> I just this this was a very there was a very significant part of what they did devoted to uh detailing exactly what the condition
of those buildings were as well as the um the usefulness the projected maintenance costs going forward. So like that that is part of what they have done and certainly would be part of you know what is what has been presented. I will
say that once that part was was done, it did, you know, the focus did turn into or did did shift, I guess, into okay, how do we, you know, what do we use the the old high school building for? Uh, but there there is a, you know,
the component of evaluating those buildings that that was done that was actually probably the first part of the study that was uh completely done. So, we just haven't talked about it in a while because we've been we we we kind of moved on beyond just just those
details. But I I what I can do, Al, is is make sure that everybody has what was presented months ago on that front and I'll I'll I'll dig back and and make >> Okay. All right. and and just to make sure that everybody has that because um
my you know as far as my hope with this study and what I've seen with this study why it would be different from all the other money on consultants we spent is because it would be doing exactly what you're talking about. would look take a look at the the longevity, the maintenance costs, the uh serviceability
of all three buildings and try to do a cost bit of analysis. And I and that again that to me that component has been done and and the the focus has shifted on to exactly what to do with with the old high school, but I can go back and make sure that everybody sees what's
been done before. Christopher, if I if I may, back in August of this year, there was a um a a handout that was given uh was called potential yearly maintenance costs savings and it was a spreadsheet
that included uh the annex uh the town actual town hall, the council on aging uh building um the base cost of demol demolition, the estimated demolition cost, the
estimated cost to replace the athletic fields if we were to sell the building, the estimated cost to replace the school administration offices, the estimated cost to replace school department facilities. uh given that that's um the garage and
whatnot that's being used there, there's potential yearly maintenance cost savings uh for each building, the annex, the town hall, the council on aging, and the old high school. So, a lot of those things have been itemized and detailed.
Our committee did not necessarily focus on that as part of our presentations because we've been trying to focus on what type of building. All of these costs would be the same regardless of
which um which avenue we go down. So this was not necessarily our focus per se. was what what the annual costs were per building because we hadn't reached that point yet because we don't know which one we're going to choose to know
which one of these buildings is no longer going to be part of the conversation. So that analysis was done and it was presented back in August. >> May I suggest it's time to move on? >> Yeah, move the question. Move the
question, Mr. I agree. Good point, Q. Um All right. Um All right. So, now we are on item four to approve the minutes of the October 14th, 2025 meeting. >> So moved.
>> Second. >> Is there any discussion on those minutes? No. Okay, I'll do a roll call then. Uh Cindy, >> uh Cindy Brown. Al >> Al le is I >> somehow the boxes all just got changed
on me. I just got messed up. Christopher >> uh Christopher Thrasher I will especially abstain on this one. >> All right. Thank you. Q >> you Martin. I >> Zack >> Zach Larru. I >> Nancy I think we need to skip you right
because you were not there. >> Yeah. Uh Duncan >> Duncan Law I >> um make sure I'm not missing anybody and Karen Rouse I. Thank you. Just a little postcript. Welcome to the
world of the long-term building committee. This discussion that we just had for the last 45 minutes. This is what's been going on for years. The same roundabout. The same roundabout. So anyway, >> it is a longterm committee. I I've
watched enough meetings to can I can >> enough said enough said but >> all right uh next item correspondence I don't have any correspondence so I have nothing to say there uh meeting schedule and topics for next meeting so our next
meeting is the December what date was that >> nth at 9th I think is it >> December 9th y so we've got those meetings and then if anybody has anything else that they want to add to the agenda, you can email me later or if
you have a topic now, you're welcome to throw it in. Uh if not, you can email me if there's something else that comes up that you'd like me to add to the agenda. So, yeah, just make sure the budgets get into the folder whether you get them
into Nancy, do you have uh access to the drive? You're all set with the drive. Good. Okay. So, uh, yeah, either if you get the budget yourself, just dump it into the drive. Um, um, this is for any of us. Um, or Jess can get it in or
Karen or I can get it into the drive. >> Yep. And is everyone good? Everyone can get into the drive. Okay. I think just want to make sure. Okay. And if if ever not, just let us know and one of us can email any documents to you. So,
>> um, okay. And um no topics within 48 hours. And so uh if nothing else, a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Thank you. >> All your boxes just moved on me again.
>> Tough to find a second. >> All right. Ali. >> Thank you, Duncan. >> Duncan law. I >> Thank you, Zack. >> Zack Leu. Cindy >> Cindy Brown eye >> Nancy >> Nancy Stanton cross I
>> Hugh >> Hugh Morton I >> Christopher >> Christopher Thrasher I >> and Karen Rose I good night everyone One.