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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=SzDrWB0wt9Y

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Welcome everyone. Today's Tuesday, June 23rd, 2026. It's 6:30. This is the Finance Committee. I'd like to call the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the United States with liberty and justice for all.

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Under Mass General Law Chapter 30, Section A, Chapter 30A, Section 20F, this meeting is being recorded. On March 28th, 2025, Governor Healey signed into law a bill which extends the temporary provisions pertaining to open meeting law to June

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30th, 2027. Specifically, this further extension allows the public bodies to continue holding meetings remotely without any quorum of the public body physically present at a meeting location, and to provide adequate alternative access to remote meetings. The language does not

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make any substantive changes to the open meeting law other than extending the expiration of the temporary provisions regarding remote meetings from March 31st, 2025 to June 30th, 2027. All right. Well, welcome everybody. >> Hello.

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>> Hello. Hello. It's been a while. So, uh before we get started, I just need to announce all of the members that are here. Uh so, we've got myself, Karen Rouse, Alise, Hugh Morton, Seth Labrue,

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Gary Carerro, Duncan Law, and Cindy Brown. Uh I believe not present at the moment are Uh right. I don't see their names. So, not present are Nancy St. Cross and Christopher Thrasher. Um but we do have

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a quorum, so we're ready to go. All right. Well, we have a few people in attendance. So, the first uh Um, on the agenda is the fiscal 26 year end transfers. And um Let's see, why don't we have Carol go

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first cuz I think Carol's going to be probably a quicker one so we can let her go. Um, so I'm taking this the out of order from the agenda so um, I am doing uh, item H which is the veterans benefits $20,000

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to veterans grave expenses. Is that right? Carol? >> Yes, from veterans benefits to veterans graves, yes. >> Great. Can you give us a quick explanation on what that is? >> Uh, so I have um, a substantial amount of money left over in my veterans

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benefits. Um, I always have extra money in there um, just in case, you know, it is a mandatory expense and I have not spent all of it. Um, so I figured this year since I had some extra money in there that I could I would request a transfer it so that I can purchase some

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more of the thermal plastic grave markers that go with the cemeteries. Um, I don't have it in my budget to buy those generally and the last time I was able to purchase some is because I received two donations from local businesses and that was probably five,

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six years ago and all of those grave markers have been used. Uh, so um I'm just trying to, you know, buy some more because it does make it easier when we're flagging the graves to identify which ones are the veterans and it certainly does look a lot nicer when

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they're all flags are all flying high and they're not stuck in the ground. So that's my request. >> Great, thank you. Does anyone have any questions for Carol? >> No. >> No, okay. Um

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Do we want to um >> Make a Make a motion to uh, approve the transfer request for veteran services. >> Thank you. >> Second. >> Second. >> Great. Any further discussion? No. I'll do a roll call. Al. >> Al Lizee, I.

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>> Hugh. >> Hugh Morton, I. >> Zack. >> Zack Broussard, I. >> Gary. >> Yes. >> Duncan. >> Duncan Law, I. >> Cindy. >> Cindy Brown, I. >> And Carol Ross, I. Thank you very much,

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Carol. Enjoy the rest of your summer. >> So, if if I could just ask one question. >> Sure. >> So, I know the select board approved this last night and now you guys have approved this. This is the first time I've ever requested a transfer. So, is this the final step now like it's

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approved and I can go ahead and make that purchase? >> I would check in with Nicole and um Miss Vitali to make sure, but I believe it's all approved. So, but there may need to be some signatures that need to

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get done and so I could answer that, but check in with Nicole. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks. Thank you. >> Bye-bye. >> Yeah, Carol, you usually get a form that sent I think you sign it as the chair and then the board select board chair signs it and then and then it transfers made by

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Nicole. I think that's it. >> Thank you very much. >> Yep, I'll sign it tonight and then what however long it takes Nicole to do what she does, but yep. >> Okay. Thank you. Have a good summer. >> Thank you, too. >> Bye. >> All right. Since we also have someone

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from the library here and we have a quick one. So, I'm going to it's item I on the agenda, which is a transfer for library personnel of $10,000 to library expenses. And I think I saw Bonnie is here. Hi,

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Bonnie. >> Hello. How is everyone? >> Good, thanks. >> Hi, Bonnie. >> Hi. >> Um so, I have a I have several things that I'd like to spend the money on. We recently had to have our air conditioner fixed. The those 290° days we had immediately our AC went out. Um

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so there was a $4,000 bill for the HVAC repairs. Um I'd like to use $5,000 towards our materials budget, which would be digital services, uh which is Hoopla and Kanopy. Uh $4,000 towards Hoopla and $1,000 towards Kanopy.

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And then the remaining $1,000 I would like to use to um just for book covers, tape, and all other office supplies things that we use a lot. >> Karen, if I may ask a question. >> Um Bonnie, so what what caused the uh additional amount of funds, the excess

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funds in your salary account? Why did you have additional money there? >> Um we had some an employee turnover, so we had there was a couple of months we just didn't have um we didn't have a principal clerk. We only had one of the two positions filled.

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>> Did you um did you also receive um I can't remember, I know that it was on the list for CIPC to upgrade your HVAC? Did that get approved? >> No, we're on the list, but we haven't >> All right. So I wasn't sure if that got approved or not. So hopefully hopefully

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this will carry you over and so >> Yes, I hope so. >> [laughter] >> Okay, thank you. >> Great, thank you. Is there any other questions for Bonnie? If not, a motion to um approve. >> So moved. >> Second. Second.

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>> Thank you. No further discussion, I'll do a roll call. Al. >> Uh Al Reese, I. >> Hugh. >> Hugh Morton, I. >> Zack. >> Zack Labrou, I. >> Gary. >> Yes. >> Duncan. >> Duncan Laing, I.

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>> Cindy. >> Cindy Brown, I. >> And Karen Ralls, I. Thank you, Bonnie. You are good to go. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, have a great summer. >> You too, thank you. >> Take care. >> Thanks. >> All right, so the next item I'm going I'm going item D, uh which is the police

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personnel $40,000 to police expenses. I think I see uh Chief Dunn here. >> Good evening, Madam Chair and members of the committee. Good evening. >> Good evening. Nice to see you. Good evening, Chief. >> Good evening, everyone. Uh Madam Chair, before I begin, I'd just

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like to take a moment and thank you, Maureen, publicly um for his 18 years of service with the town and his years of service as uh the police liaison. Um I want to say his mentorship has been invaluable to myself and Deputy Chief, and we really appreciate that.

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And uh if it wasn't for him, like our town is better and our police department is better because of him and his guidance. So, I just want to take a moment and thank you publicly for everything. >> Thank you for that. Thank you, Hugh. >> You're welcome. >> So, second >> Very kind of you, Chief. Again, good to

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work with you, Maureen. >> Thank you for everything. I really appreciate it. Uh with that being said, we have a I guess a minor transfer, considering what we asked for the past 2 years. And I appreciate you, the committee, for the past 2 years of your support. Even though this is minor, this is still

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a a big thing for us, a big ask. And at one point, I'm going to defer to Deputy Chief Rebello cuz he has more knowledge of this than I have. Uh we had the remaining funds due to uh an open position in dispatch, and we currently have another dispatcher out currently on FMLA, which gave us the money to appropriate

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for this expense. Um I'd also like to publicly thank Senator Mike Rodgers. Um he was able to get us an earmark, which provided 70% of this expense for this item, which is a virtual training simulator, um which is going to help out our the police department regarding

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de-escalation techniques. So, um if I can, Madam Chair, I'd like to just refer to uh Deputy Rebello, who has more intimate knowledge regarding this system for any questions you may have. >> Great. Thank you. >> Madam Chair, I have a uh PowerPoint. I don't know if you can share my screen or

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not, or if you just want me to roll through it. Just explain to you what it is. >> If I you have access to be able to share your screen if you can do that. >> Uh yeah. Can you see this? >> We can see it. >> Okay.

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Uh So, the system's called the Virtra system. It's uh the company name. And on the next slide here, you can see so it has over 1,000 realistic training scenarios that they've developed. Um and it's immersive training. You'll see it in a second. The last slide will show you what it actually looks like in real

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life. Um it's a We were going with the 180° system. So, once you enter the room, you're surrounded in a 180° um format by the screens that are in front of you. And then you'll go through various scenarios, whether that be a decision-making thing for de-escalation,

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a use of force, or things of that nature. Here, the biggest the biggest sell to these systems, and I'll tell you why this system is different than others first. This one allows you to utilize it You don't have to wear the goggles to do it. So, you're in front of a screen. You'll see, like I said at the end, a three um a version of what it looks like

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in a 180 view. You're in, for all intents and purposes, you're in the scenario um with the with the screens that are in front of you. So, you're able to go through these scenarios multiple times if you have to, just to burn that into it Everything with us is training and uh muscle memory and things of that nature. So, you're able to go

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through these scenarios multiple times. Sometimes if uh officers have a difficulty with a various scenario, the instructors that are trained from Virtra, that's part of the system we get training for as many people as we want. We'll have all of our firearms instructors go through, as well as myself, just that way we can utilize a

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system. Another thing that the uh senator asked or one of the big selling points of the center was that this is going to be a system that can be used by municipalities that near us that train with us like Dartmouth, Freetown, things of that nature. So you can come in and so long as one of our trainers is there,

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they'll be able to use the system rain, sleet or snow. It'll be upstairs in our attic. We have adequate space up there. The vendor's already been out to check to make sure that that's adequate um before we move forward this with the senator. So, like I said, the big thing with him was that other agencies would be able to utilize it cross agencies

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where we train with them normally anyway and a mutual aid request they're going to be training under the same system that we're training with. The system has realistic scenarios. They have, like I said, over a thousand. Every year there's an addition that they come in, they revamp

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the system, go through another refresher course with all of our trainers, and then move on. Uh down the bottom there is just the cost-effective nature of it. So, we've recently switched thanks to your help to a new weapons platform with red dot optics. Sometimes that's difficult for other people to get into especially if

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they don't shoot a lot. So, this allows you to utilize this system and it's realistic. The ballistics I'll go on to the next slide. It doesn't come up yet, but the ballistics on this are accurate out to 200 uh 200 2,000 m rather. So, the bullet drop at 2,000 m in this

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system would be accurate to the bullet drop on a on a real life situation. So, we can train with our firearms in a situation a use of force situation here where you're going to utilize your firearm and it's accurate. There's also a range option where you can take somebody who may need fundamentals at the range. You

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can now bring them into this virtual system not using any ammunition, so it's in essence free range training for our officers. Here some of the training use of force verbal de-escalation that's a big thing. It's a especially a big thing with post. Every year we have to recertify a portion of our officers. They're on a

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three-year rotation. So, every 3 years a group of officers needs to be actually every year, but at the completion of 3 years, every officer is then been recertified through POST. With POST, it's de-escalation is the big thing that they're looking for. What are we doing for de-escalation? What we've been doing

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is when we train with DART Mount, we have some great trainers that we train with the DART Mount. There's only so much that they can do through the use of scenarios, and the scenarios become repetitive after a little while, and there's really there's really nothing different. Well, this allows us to change that and add quite a a

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significant amount more to the de-escalation training that our officers are getting in a different format, which is going to be um what POST is looking for. The uptake in mental health responses, they have quite a few scenarios in the system that deal with that as well, as well as the domestic violence and the

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active threats as well. Here, um the last thing I'll talk about just the stress inoculation. So, this has the option that you wear a device on your belt that would even deliver a shock to the individual who's wearing it or vibration. You can turn off the shocking portion. So, it kind of amps

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you up and gets that dopamine going or the adrenaline going rather, and to see what you do under in a situation where you're dealing with maybe somebody shooting back at you. Like I said again, the uh ballistics accuracy up to 2,000 um m. Um the branching realism here. So, this

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is what the trainers are going to get. So, they have the ability to go through a scenario and run the same scenario with a group of officers and have different outcomes depending on what the officer is introducing to that scenario, then the instructor can then migrate that down these branching paths to

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determine what the ultimate outcome of that is. Again, just down on the bottom there, the certified curriculum. It is POST certified curriculum that we'll be utilizing as well. And then, so this is what it will look like, and this is the last slide. So, it's just you're in the system, you're

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in the world. It's high definition. Um it's actually better quality than what you're seeing in front of you now, and it just gives you the ability to go through these scenarios like I said, repetitively, so that way you can get used to what's going on and just ingrain in those officers a a training mechanism where they resort back to what their

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training is in a high-stress environment. Wow. >> Mhm. Gary >> That's incredible. >> I have a question. >> That's incredible. >> Go ahead, Gary. Did you have a question? Go ahead. >> Yeah, no. I I mean, this is really, um,

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I think, uh, to the to the police department's credit, always looking at new technology. Um, I like to I like to hear that they're, um, working with other departments to that bring that in uh, in case of, uh, you know, a uh a response to in in the case where there's there's

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mutual aid involved. Um, I I the only question I had was one of the question was, does this purchase this also purchase the software and the equipment, the hardware, the screens, everything? Uh, and is that for 1 year, right? That's not going to be for multiple years. >> No, correct. So, that's a one one-time

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purchase. There's options to go forward with servicing after that. I've spoken to the town of Beverly. They have this. They've had the system since 2022. They love the system. They did go with the recurring cost just because they had funding to do that. Um, I did speak with the manufacturer about that and they said that you do not need to go with the

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recurring costs. I just talked with the Mr. uh Vitali about it as well. It's once you purchase the system, the minor um repairs that you need to do are very insignificant portion of the cost. So, it'd be more beneficial to not go with

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that recurring cost, which is significant. So, once the initial purchase is done, you're you're good for the remainder of the time. >> So, like in next year in fiscal 28, um you you're probably you're saying that probably won't be like an upgrade uh it won't be an addition to the MI to the IT

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department until the uh police IT line. It it's good for a couple of years. >> Yes. >> At least. Um, I'm happy to hear that it's it's, you know, it it helps with post. I think that's important to keep when they're off at having the certification for the officers that I think is very important to keep that uh in the back of everyone's mind that

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that's really the standard right now is POST. And this office >> It's nice too with the IA's IA AI stuff that's going out. A lot of it with they're writing reports for you and and we're not about that. Our body cameras don't do that, things of that nature. So this is something that's positive that

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we can kind of use AI for and utilize these uh these training mechanisms. >> Yep. Great. Thank you. >> Sure. >> Hugh, go ahead. >> Well, I have two things. One is the fantasy for that idea. It's

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sort of the holodeck, useful to have. But if you do joint training with Dartmouth, good idea. Does that mean that they'll contribute in some way to the cost or is this sort of a um um generous provision to our neighbors?

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>> So Hugh, I can answer that question. So so we share services with Dartmouth regarding a firearms license a firearms training. We train with them at the range um along with taser instruction. So this is kind of one hand washes the other with them. Um you know, I don't

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anticipate charging Dartmouth or doing anything cuz you know, we there's some things there's some services they provide for us that they don't charge for us. So this is kind of a reciprocal agreement between the two communities. >> Very good. That's a good >> I think my connection's breaking up. >> [laughter]

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>> That's a good answer. I just wanted to ask because that question might come up that that we paid for and other people get to use it. Very good idea for joint training etc. And so that's a good explanation. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Yeah.

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>> Thank you. Any Any other questions? >> I have no question. I I I just think this is a no-brainer, Karen. >> Yeah, it's impressive. >> give give given what what's going on in the world um >> Mhm. >> this is just a no-brainer. >> And this is just a fraction of the cost.

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I mean, we're fortunate that >> Right. >> the uh the state will um through their earmark will contribute um 70% of the cost. So, >> Yeah. >> it's an additional benefit. >> I'll make a motion. >> Thank you. I was just asking any uh

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second on the motion, please? >> Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. If no further discussion, I'll do a roll call. Al? >> Al Lisa, I. >> Hugh? >> Hugh Morton, I. >> Zack? >> Zack LeBrooke, I. >> Gary? >> Yes.

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>> Duncan? >> Duncan Law, I. >> Cindy? >> Cindy Brown, I. >> And Karen Ralls, I. So, thank you to both of you. That's impressive. >> Appreciate it. Madam Chair, just a couple things if I may. Just two couple of One is uh we look forward to inviting

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members of the FinCom when this this is up and running for you to physically see it. Uh secondly, um just two minor things. One is um April Tuesday, April, I believe, 5th, we're having our Police Night Out at the old high school. So, if anybody would like to attend, it was a big success

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last year. >> What's the date? >> August August >> August 4th. >> August 4th, sorry. >> August 4th. I'm trying to put it on my calendar. About August [laughter] 4th. Uh so, I invite everybody to that. And then, um the two-day active shooter training, joint training with the fire department, has been approved at town meeting.

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I believe that's August 10th and August 13th. I I'll confirm the dates later on. But, uh if any of the representatives for the FinCom would like to be in attendance for that, um you know, we if we could split up the group, but we can I can circle back with you at a later date if anybody like to come and and view what what we're doing

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um on those dates. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Great. That sounds great. If you can send an email with the information, the dates and times, and locations, that would be great. >> I certainly will. And as I started this evening this tonight, I'll end it with thank you. Thank you very much. >> Yeah. And good luck good luck with the rest of

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the summer. I know I think it's heating up. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah, this is your hot season. >> Have Have Have fun on Hicks Bridge Road. >> Yes. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> We are. Thank you. >> Have a nice night, everyone. >> All right, thank you. >> Thank you all. Appreciate it.

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>> All right, so I believe we have Chief Baldwin here. So, the next item is on the agenda was E, fire expenses, $50,000 to fire personnel. I believe Chief Baldwin's here. Yes, he is. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. How you doing? Good

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evening. Thank you for having >> Good evening. >> Good to have me tonight. Um Our year-end transfer request is for $50,000 from expenses to personnel. Um it's not an easy transfer to

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accomplish. We put a lot of things on hold on the expense side, such as um vehicle maintenance, NFPA equipment uh testing that we usually do annually in June. We're deferring that to July. Um in addition to

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you know, our normal day-to-day operations and, you know, our increasing call volume, both our call firefighter line and our overtime line from fiscal year '25 to '26 only saw a $4,000 increase each. This year presented with some significant challenges. We had a

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firefighter break his leg on duty in July. He was out for 5 months. We had the January 20th uh snowstorm, which is normally something that we would absorb without without without um problems. We obviously had the blizzard of '26,

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which was historical and significant. And then, as you probably have heard, we had a fire at Mid-City Scrap that went on for several days. And uh unexpectedly, we had a firefighter go out with open heart surgery in May, and he is out until August.

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So, uh in order to make um ends meet, we you know, we implemented some As soon as we identified that we were going to probably run short on the personnel side, we um as I stated uh you know, um we did some cost-cutting measures on the

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expense side and uh we're not asking for money from another budget, we're just asking for a transfer from within our own. Um so we can complete the year and I'll ask for your uh approval. Please. >> Great, thank you, Chief. Any questions for the Chief? >> I have a question.

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>> Go ahead, Senator. >> Uh so, Chief, are are there are there expenses here that you are pushing off to the next fiscal year that perhaps are not also included in your budget for next year? I mean, we do have

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a reserve fund for, you know, unforeseen uh expenses and certainly the fires and the blizzard would uh would certainly um be um would qualify for those unforeseen expenses. So, do you feel that you are

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compromising your budget for the current year of things that you wish you could have completed that are going to get pushed off into the next year that's only going to wreck your budget for next year? >> Um truthfully, yes. I think that is going to be an issue, but um my plan is

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to do what I had what what I was doing very well this year until these two historical events happened. We were right on the money. Um we do a lot of projections. We do a lot of year-over-year analysis with our budgeting and we were right on we were right on the money to to end this year, you know, in really good position. Um

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the NFPA testing of our Scott models, masks, and harnesses runs about $6,500. We usually do that in June. Our NFPA pump testing is about $500 per engine. We usually do that in June. And we usually couple that testing with our annual service of our apparatus. Keeping

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in mind as I mentioned every year, this is heavy duty diesel apparatus. Um there's really no such thing as a $35 oil change. Um it's a full workup of the vehicle. Um making sure the pump is, you know, safe and proper. Greasing of the chassis and then of course they identify

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any issues that um may need to be rectified. And for example, our tanker has two gear fuels that leaking. I had to send that today. I had no choice. We cannot be without a tanker. And I could not defer that until until July. Um but you know, I mean, yeah, there could

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be an issue, but I'm going to do my job and that's good to try and stay within the confines of my budget for next year. And and you know, just make it through this year. Um we do have my department was was responsible and charged with submitting the reimbursements for the

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for the storm, the blizzard. Town wide we gathered all of the information town wide and we submitted to FEMA. We sat in the meetings with FEMA. Um I don't recall the total dollar amount, but I think it was around 150,000 in reimbursement money that we're looking at, but my suspicion is

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that we'll probably just get um placed to the I guess the general fund if we cash whatever whatever comes in. It's not going if it does come in at all. There's a good chance that it that it will be approved by the federal government. Um it would come in in next fiscal year. Um Honestly, I I appreciate the question

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and I appreciate you know, maybe sound like your willingness to help, but to get us even scheduled now before June 30th, um I don't think that would be possible. I don't even think I can get ITS down here to do our SCBA bottle testing. I I know that Bulldog apparatus when I called today to get my tanker

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there in sort of an emergency situation, he he's his yard is full, so um you know, I I I think I think we I think we do a good job managing the budget and I think we'll be able to make it work next year, but yes, the deputy and I have talked about where we're going into next year.

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The first month of July, we got some spending to do. Um we're critically low on just janitorial supplies. Um You know, we're we're holding off on topping off the fuel tanks at north. Actually, they're empty. So, um >> So, items So, items like that, I mean, if you used your expense money for

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things like your janitorial supplies, which I would think you could order in the next week. I would think you can top off your tanks in the next week. I mean, so even, you know, something as small as 10, 15, 20,000, I mean, would that would that help? I mean, you know, you you

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obviously could see where I was going with this that that reserve fund is there for a purpose and it's it's unfortunate to have a department um have to sacrifice things that are necessary in order to meet their budget.

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I certainly could appreciate your reasoning in in your desire to want to live within the confines of your budget. But, there were two items that were far beyond your control to be able to manage those expenses. So, that's what the purpose of the of the reserve fund is

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for. So, even if you carved out 10, 20,000 dollars for some of these items that you could fulfill in the next week, um if that would be helpful to your budget for the for the next year, because you never know what kind of other

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other calamities could happen after July 1. So, um that's just my line of thinking, anyway. >> Yeah. Um I I I I again, I I really with 7 days left, I'm I'm just not sure I can

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>> Okay. >> I I I mean, I wish I just I just don't know if I can get us scheduled in. >> Yeah. >> items done. Um working with our vendors. Um >> [clears throat] >> Let's just vote. >> But, and I and yeah, I I

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It's it's just too tough to predict. I I don't even know know, what, you know, today we were extremely busy um with medicals. Um I you know, and who knows what even happens in the next 7 days in terms of emergency response. We had a building fire last weekend. So, um you know, I think

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I think this plan >> It's a it was a it's a great thought and um if you think of it after the fact and you come up with something, then uh you know, we'll come up with a plan. Uh Chris Cataldo, you got your hand up. >> Yeah. >> Hi, Chris. >> Yeah, I just I guess I just want to make

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a comment on that cuz I know I've had some uh conversations with the chief on this. And you know, one of the things, you know, that we will certainly look at going into FY28 is um you know, these type of incidents that we're facing.

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Um obviously, one with the blizzard uh being a multi-day um event and then the mid-city fire being another one. But um what has the town experienced in prior years? And obviously, uh to the best of

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our ability, trying to uh budget for these type of incidents. Now, we can't anticipate everything, you know, but I think that's something where um you know, we do want to have a meaningful conversation as we go and have those conversations um

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for the FY28 budget. Uh and certainly, when it comes to, you know, unforeseen expenses, you know, as I said to the chief is if there's something that is critical to the operation, um you know, we will make sure that that comes to the finance committee uh for

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your consideration. Uh obviously, to keep you informed as to what's going on, but number two is um if it's something that can't be put off or it's not in the best interest of the town, we don't want to do that. And that's just that's not my expectation, either. So, um but I'll continue work

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with the chief on this and um monitor this going into the next fiscal year. >> Great. Thank you, Chris. Uh Al, go ahead. >> I would like to suggest that the [clears throat] critical services of

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the town, fire pardon me, police um pick another one if you want. Look at a 3-year rolling average of what the expenses are. We tend to to look at it last year

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>> [clears throat] >> pardon me, this happened, this didn't happen, and whatever. And it's it's it's it's almost a snapshot that we move forward. When in fact the um uh what I always did in my business was look at a three four, maybe even

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five-year rolling average of of extraordinary expenses. And and and plan for that. So I I'm just saying and I'm not pardon me. I am not um uh questioning uh

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Chief Baldwin at at at all. This stuff happens. And you know, when it happens, it blows the the entire budget. So I I just I just really think that that there should be a

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rethink of what it takes to fund a department. And after 3 years, if there's an excess throw back to the town. I mean, you know, I I'm I'm not suggesting they just build up a fund, but at at least at

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least let's have a reserve account. And to Cindy's point, that that would you know this wouldn't be an issue. This wouldn't be a discussion point. That's all. >> Thank you. Uh Nancy, Nancy Stancross is

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here. Nancy, can you uh when did you come in? We missed you. >> About 5 minutes ago. Oh, okay. We're going to put in the record that you came in at 7:00. So, just for a minutes. Hi, Nancy. >> Hi. Um I'm catching up late, but I thought this might be a good time to bring it

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up. Maybe you know, I We had a discussion with with the chief about the ambulance bills. And we got a sheet about the last over the last I think it was a 10-year picture or an 8-year picture.

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And right there from from the calculations that I got, it was over a half a million dollars that we left on the table of uncollected bills. And I understand that the chief, you know, being very compassionate said, "Well, you know, we don't feel like doing a collection service. You know, there are

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some older people that aren't able to pay their bills." And with all due respect, I don't agree with that. I don't think it's fair that we provide this service to the town. And a little-known secret there is if you don't pay the bill, they don't do collection.

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And you're talking about you left a half a million dollars over the last several years on the table. 50,000 just last year. So, wouldn't that take care of some of these shortfalls? A collection company only takes a percent out of those bills. And just so everybody knows, the little old lady that can't

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pay her bill, they cannot do anything in a small claims collection action against them. They dismiss the case if they have an inability to pay. So, let's get that, you know, that elephant right out of the room. But I think it's only fair that people that use the ambulance service in

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town and they pay their bill. How are they being unfairly prejudiced to the bunch of people that don't pay their bill? We don't know what their economic circumstances is. We don't know anything, but we don't pursue it and we leave that money on the table. And then we talk about always being in this

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financial crunch. So, I know we never really followed up on it, but it's something that stuck in my craw that I don't understand why we can't do collections like every other town. >> Okay, so um last year was was 26,394. Um I I I wasn't

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>> Yeah, before that? What was the year before that? >> 32. >> Okay. >> Um so I wasn't This wasn't I wasn't prepared to speak about this tonight cuz it wasn't I didn't think it was going to come up. Um so as ironically as you talk about this, I have been reaching out to billing

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billing companies. I put together an RFP last week. I'm on vacation this week, so I haven't been in the office, although I've been in the station every day. Um but I'm supposed to be on vacation. Um but as soon as I come back, I'm going to meet with Chris Vitali to discuss the RFP for the billing

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company and pursue that avenue. Um after having some discussions with other chiefs and billing companies, I believe it can be done humanely. And I also believe that there may be some money that can come into the town.

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Um I'm not going to go on record and state what that number might be cuz I don't want to be wrong or get anybody's hopes up, but I believe it would be beneficial. I'll leave it at that. Um that this just started last week, the conversations. So, again, I'm not

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prepared to speak on it. Um I'm here to request a transfer. I I wasn't prepared. I'm I'm sitting at home. I'm not sitting at my desk with my notes. Um but Nancy, I am looking into it and I with I assuming uh Chris Vitali's blessing, we will be pursuing it.

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>> Yeah, I I wasn't I I had nothing to do with trying to spring something on you. It was something that we talked about. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. No, I understand. I understand. I I saw the email go out. >> Yeah, I I appreciate the fact that you've been on >> I'm moving forward on it. I am absolutely moving forward on it. >> But I do want to reassure you that in small claims, if someone doesn't have

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ability to pay, they get discharged from the debt. I >> Yeah, there was actually um an email that came out today. Again, being on vacation, I read it very briefly from DPH. They're putting forth legislation um that any type of outstanding EMS billing will not be reported to a credit bureau and it will not affect anybody's

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credit. I I I have to really I have to read the the email, you know, I was just going through my phone, I saw it pop up, but it came from DPH late this afternoon. Um, it's right here, medical debt reporting requirements for healthcare facilities. I believe it's going to include us

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because it came from OEMS. Uh, speaking of medical debt consumer reporting agencies will be prohibited, etc. >> Hey, I don't I don't want to cut you off, but we're we want to stay on our topic of the of our transfer. >> Sorry to get off. I just found the

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opportunity to talk about it when we're looking for money. >> It's all you know It's all valid when we're looking at someone's budget when we get to this point, but we're we're not specifically talking about that topic tonight uh, since it's not on our agenda, but >> Karen, Karen, if you have a couple of

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comments on the way. >> Go ahead. Go ahead, [clears throat] Karen. >> two things in mind. I put the people don't pay in two categories. One who are unable to pay and those who choose not to pay. How to distinguish is hard. In the old

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days, you could get a standard uh uh uh credit report and find out whether somebody had it or not. That's hard to do these days. First category, that is those who choose not to pay, no sympathy.

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Those who are able, then you get in the category of there's no sense in trying to get blood out of a rock and how do you make the distinction? >> I mean they're they're all hardship waiver forms. There's a process. Um, it'll all it'll

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all it'll all be a much better and and they it's what they refer to as a humane process which I think is I think is good. >> That sounds good. That sounds good, Chief. >> Um >> I said >> Thank you. >> Again, I just want I I to know that the $50,000, you know, hopefully that money

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is coming back into us by way of reimbursement from the federal government. >> Great. Thank you, Chief. So, I just want to read um Nicole is here. Um she put it uh an item in the chat, so I just want and she said her microphone's not working. You could vote a reserve fund transfer,

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but he would have to order everything before June 30th and encumber the funds. So, I just wanted to pass that was a note. Um you know, I think just don't we just want to come in on that note. While while I think there's validity what to what Cindy had requested in terms of a

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reserve, um it might be a little bit late in the game and I wouldn't be in favor of coming up today with some level of money and approving a reserve that isn't not justified, but I mean, you know, with detail of how it would be spent. So,

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that's what we ask of everybody. So, we we I wouldn't be inclined to to give a certain dollar amount without some of the specifics and Chief's not prepared to do that tonight, so. Um does anyone have anything else? Otherwise, we can make a motion to um on

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this. Make a motion to approve the transfer from the fire department. >> A second. >> Thank you. Any further discussion? Nope. All right, I'll do a roll call. Al? >> Al leases I. >> Hugh? >> Hugh Morton I.

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>> Zack? >> Zack Abernathy I. >> Gary? >> Gary >> I think we lost Gary. >> Oh, did we lose Gary? >> I don't see him on here. >> Okay. Duncan? >> Duncan Law I. >> Cindy? >> Cindy Brown I.

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>> Uh Nancy? >> Nancy Stanton Cross I. >> And Karen I. Thank you. So, Chief, we'll I'm certain I'm certainly will follow up with some of the conversations that uh that Nancy brought up at at a at a different point, but um thank you for um

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all you do and have a great summer. >> Thank you, you as well. >> Thank you. All right, take care. All right, we have two items from Marine and

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Shellfish. They were small items and um I did get an email explaining what they are. >> The The The head of Marine Services had a conflict conflicting meeting this evening, so he he wasn't going to be able to attend.

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So, he did forward forward a narrative, which I know um you sent around recently. >> Yes, I just sent that. >> Yeah. >> So, let's see. The So, it's item F on our

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agenda, which is Marine Personnel $7,500 to Marine Expenses. >> Mhm. >> And then there's a second one, item G, which is Shellfish Personnel $9,000 to Shellfish Expenses. Um

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>> Karen, since you just sent that around, do you it it's a fairly short note, would you like me to just read some of the highlights of his note? >> That would be fantastic. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh let's see. This is from um Bill Chase, the Director of Marine

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Services. Um writing to explain the need for the end of FY26 transfers for both Marine Services Department and the Shellfish Department. As you know, these two budgets make up the whole of the Marine Services Department's finances.

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As of June 15th, the Marine Services Department had an operational expenses deficit of $2,921. Additionally, we have anticipated expenses both in salary and operational expenses of $17,000.

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We also have excess salary for that same time period of $7,109 and some change for a total operational deficit of $9,890.48. The shellfish department has an

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operational deficit of $256.30 along with excess salary of $10,122.19. I'm requesting a transfer from the excess in shellfish to cover the deficit in marine services. As you know, our combined budgets for FY

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'27 is $53,000 greater than last year because of the increases in waterway user fees that were approved by the select board in October of last year. This will allow for much-needed infrastructure upgrades as well as more

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seasonal staff to help in the busiest time of the year. Uh, he did send an attachment um spreadsheet that included the itemized um expenses. Attached you'll find the current balance sheet for the marine services department

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um with the correlated uh expenses. And I'll just go back to that for a second. A second. So, what it basic basically comes down to is that there are

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uh engine service uh pre-scheduled engine engine service for one of the boats uh and then two others. So, it's 2,500 for one, 1,250 for another.

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Uh have to haul the boat out and paint it. That's a Trips Boatyard uh expense. Painting uh a diver for the town moorings. Uh as you may be remember that they're inspecting all of the moorings uh up and down the river.

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So, there was a diver that he needed additional $750. Printing, they've had some changes as to how they're going about ticketing and and receiving payment at the

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the dock down by the back eddy. So, there was some printing involved for that. Porta Potties, uniforms, and requisite state training are some of the expenses.

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And there was some excess salary that he's using to apply all of that towards. So, not an endorsement, just just I'm just reading it. >> Just reading it. Thank you. Thanks, Cindy, for reading that. Hugh, go ahead.

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>> So, our question, Cindy, you have it. There is a separate fund, I believe, for shellfish and lettuce, etc. Is that a separate accounting, or is that in the stuff you've been looking at? >> Well, I think that I think it

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Nicole has she said her her microphone isn't working, but I think what what it is is that he had money in one of the accounts and not in the other. But, the combination of the two Yeah, the combination of the two balances it out. >> account, which I think is

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designed for shellfish replenishment. And I don't quite know what the overlap between the two is or should be. >> Um Yeah, I'm not I'm not exactly sure as to what the restrictions are in that show

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as long as it's used um So, Nicole is saying there's a waterways fund that can only be used with town meeting vote. So, we can't go in there and tap that into that money without without town meeting approval.

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>> I think well, it's not important. They into it in detail, but I think the shellfish replenishment is largely grant money. >> All right, so she's also saying that there is a propagation fund, a shellfish propagation fund that [clears throat] can only be used for seed. So he's not

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he's not referring to that, so. >> That is a separate That's helpful. Thank you. >> [clears throat] >> I'll make a motion to approve the transfer. >> Thank you. >> Second. >> Any other comments or discussion? No? All right, I will do a roll call.

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Al? >> Al Leitch, >> Hugh? >> Hugh Morton, I. >> Zack? >> Zack Brouwer, I. >> Is Gary Backus he done? >> I think he's gone. >> He's gone. All right, so >> Didn't say goodbye.

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>> All right, well we'll for the record we are We'll just say he left at 7:10 p.m. Duncan? >> Duncan La Rue, I. >> Cindy? >> Cindy Brown, I. >> Nancy? >> Nancy Stanton-Cross, I. >> And Karen Wells, I. Thank you.

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All right, so we have three more transfers and I think Chris Vitale is here. Um so we've got um item one, which is the select board personnel $48,000 to legal.

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And then we also have a town hall expenses of $18,160.45. That's also to legal. Maybe we can talk about legal and those two. Um If you If you would like to, Chris. >> Uh certainly. So

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uh as you know, the town uh you we engage counsel. Um they help us with day-to-day advisory recommendations, uh reviewing contracts. Um you know, in uh if the board makes a request, but one of the things that is

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the big cost driver is uh claims and litigations that the town are involved in. Um, the town has had several ongoing litigations uh over the last several years. Um, you know, certainly long before I started with the town, um, but

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unfortunately uh they come at a great uh cost to the town. Um, so that's something where um, you know, unfortunately just some of that is outside of our control um as these matters are before the court

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and there's some uh deadlines associated that require counsel to uh you know, take certain actions within a certain time frame. So, um when these situations come up and obviously uh we do our best to avoid litigation. Um,

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you know, but when it comes up uh obviously we have a a duty and obligation to uh respond for the best interest of the town. So, um with that that is uh really the reason for these transfers is um just based on where we've been

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trending over the last several months. Uh we did anticipate that this account would be in a deficit uh for the end of FY 26 and so uh just based on where we're trending uh this would allow us to cover the anticipated expenses for the

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remainder of the fiscal year. >> Yeah, thanks Chris. Go ahead, Al. >> You have a question? >> What about Chris, what are the litigations specifically and what are where is the control of

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the different commissions or departments or whatever to to to avoid this kind of stuff? Because it it just seems pardon me and I'm sure like everybody else I I I don't have a life, so

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therefore I sit in front of YouTube and watch uh let's just say historical commission for example. I'm not pinning them down, but let's look at And the next thing you know, we're in we're in this um

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uh litigation phase all the time because somebody has an idea about something and I you know, I want I I I'd like some more detail on why the people in the town are paying for somebody's bright idea.

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>> And I could step in for a moment. I'm not sure it's currently the case. But a while ago >> [clears throat] >> that we went through who had the authority to consult counsel when you have a charge. And a number of years ago now, it

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revolved to the selectmen had to approve. And so anybody can wish to bring a suit or whatever, but they can't go and dial up counsel and do it without the selectmen's approval. You can't do anything if somebody's

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going to sue you. That's the I got the other guy who doesn't like what the town board has done and brings a suit, then you have a choice of do we defend or not? But I I would go back to Chris. It's where things are now, but it used to be that the commission could not just

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go off on their own, they had to get approval of the selectmen. >> Yeah, so I'll >> You You Thank you. Excuse me one second, Chris. Thank you Thank you for that and I and it was not particularly pinning the tail on the donkey of the historical

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commission. It was just in gen- in general. Yeah. >> Yeah, so I mean uh I can speak to uh the process. So, we have a request for legal counsel um that we you know,

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if there is a department uh or from a board or commission, you know, by a duly authorized vote. Um, you know, they can make that request to my office. Um, you know, similar to what you had mentioned, um, that's reviewed through me, signed

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off through me. Uh, the select board also has that authorization, obviously, to go to council. Um, you know, however, just again, because they are a board, um, you know, typically that's coordinated through my office, again, just um,

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for a central point of contact. Um, you know, again, depending on uh, what matters the board is dealing with, it might come uh, in the form of a a council opinion, again, which is something that's protected through attorney-client privilege, um,

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and obviously, just um, you know, daily operations of the town, there's certain things that um, require a a legal point of view or recommendation on the matter. So, uh, that's something that's available to me, and again, to assist

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with the town operations. Um, now, if a department or board committee submits a request to me, um, you know, I'm going to look at the merits of it. So, as an example, um, one of those things is uh, enforcement, you know, zoning violations. Um,

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you know, there's there's an activity going on at a location that it shouldn't be happening cuz they don't have the proper approvals. You know, just as a general rule of thumb, legal is really the last stop, right? Um, because it does come at an expense

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to the town, and uh, there's a lot of time involved in that. So, you know, I work with our departments, uh, and advise them to say, "Hey, what what measures, what mechanisms are available to us?" Um, you know, again, every situation is a

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little bit different, um, but that's something where uh, I consult with our departments on various matters that are going on in town. >> I understand. So, um, I'll just say with that, there are a lot of instances where we do avoid getting

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counsel involved because we're able to find a resolution outside of um, engaging those services. Now, um, with regards to the active litigation, uh, I'm not in a position here tonight and I nor can I share um, the the details of each of those

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litigations. Just, um, there are the litigations that the council currently is in. Um, you know, they are reviewing them. They reviewed some of them. Uh, not this past meeting on Monday, but then I believe the meeting prior, two meetings prior.

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Um, so you can see the list of those ongoing litigations and the board does anticipate reviewing those matters again at their next meeting in July. So, um, what is publicly available, uh, you know, certainly I would um,

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I'd refer you just again to those publicly available documents. Um, I can't again, of course I can't speak to the litigations themselves or the merit or um, but you know, again, generally as Hugh had mentioned is there are certain

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things again where um, you know, once the town uh, is served or the town is engaged in a matter, we have an obligation to respond um, to protect the town's interest. So,

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um, now, you know, again, I'll just say um, as we go forward, you know, every year when we look at the budget, we look at, you know, um, the merits, you know, um, of pursuing legal action even if it's something within the town's interest, you know, we

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do weigh um, uh, the cost benefit to pursuing some of these items. And whether or not it's something that, um, uh, would ultimately bring better value to the community. So, that's really it on that.

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>> Great. Thanks, Chris. Um, Nancy, you've got your hand up. >> Um, Chris, did there was there an increase in the contractual agreement with the the uh, team of lawyers that represents the town this year for an increase of an hourly fee?

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>> So, uh, there were incremental increases, uh, to their fee. Um, I would say not substantial that caused, I mean, it non-material impact to the, I guess,

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overall legal expense of the town. And just my experience working with other communities, we are getting a very competitive rate for legal services. So, um, that in of itself, I I I I don't personally don't see as a concern.

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>> So, um, when the town is in litigation, we have town council. Um, do we use them at Do they vend it out to a defense law firm on the town's behalf or are they handling the defense of those lawsuits? >> So,

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I guess just for context on our firm. So, we have a primary point of contact with our firm. Within that firm, you know, they have attorneys that specialize in certain areas. Um, so again, depending on the nature of it, um,

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you know, they might have someone who is, again, my primary point of contact for, um, labor-related matters or, um, tax title-related matters. Um, again, the list goes on and on, but um, that is

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generally the establishment. Now, there are certain litigations where uh, outside counsel does come in. Um, you know, I'll just as like an example with the town with uh, the opioid lawsuits. You know, they'll there's a special

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counsel that the town our town council works with as part of part of a a larger suit. So >> a class. Yeah. >> Right. So there are certain instances where we do have outside counsel come in. Um in that respect. The other option, you know, the other thing and again not to

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go too much in details here, but um for things that involve our insurance policies, uh there are certain instances where um you know, we as a town represented through our insurance carrier um you know, versus it being something that

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is billed to us through our council cuz we're paying for that, you know, through through our insurance premiums. So those are the instances um fairly, but they're all they're working together. And our town council's responsible for again staying in touch with um

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you know, these various representatives to make sure, you know, if there's an update or a question that they can >> [clears throat] >> be responsive and answer. So >> Yeah, no, I appreciate the answer and this is certainly not directed at you, Chris. And I'm just going to say this, I know it's not on the agenda, Karen, but kind of like what I brought up with the

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fire. As a finance committee, is our purpose just to approve budgets and say you're not getting this much, you're getting that much. What are you doing with your money? Or are we going to have an opportunity to try to to at least have a dialogue of

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ways that the town can save money and become more streamlined? Because we do have our budget meetings. This has been my first year, so I don't know. But certainly it makes me want to pull my hair out when I hear about this litigation.

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I've seen it on the school side and I I haven't been on the town side, but I can only imagine it runs the same way. It is not fine-tuned. The messaging before it gets to Chris. He's not the first guy. He might be the third guy. Um and I find

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it inefficient. I find that we I said Al's talked about we have all these different boards doing things, uh conducting their meeting to the best of their ability, but these are some of the things that, you know, hold the town liable and they're the the oversight to

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and how to handle that. Some things can necessarily be handled earlier than sending the letter to that lawyer and then they write back a big three-page opinion that you get billed for and that it it goes on and on and on. It makes me want to pull my hair out. So, that I just have to say that.

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>> Yeah. Um Yeah, just just one comment on that piece of it particularly just with boards and committees. Um you know, one of the things that uh the select board uh is moving forward as a priority is a board and committee handbook. You know, I think a lot of

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these matters um again are guides, you know, on on policies and procedures and best practices. Um things with regards to open meeting, right? Um uh public records requests uh that come

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in and and the proper way to process those, respond to those. So, uh you know, there are things that the town uh can and is um going to be doing to be proactive on these things uh and I'll

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just say that we can't or I can't necessarily say you can't make the ask, but just know that in my position when I'm getting these requests uh I'm not just looking at the paper and signing willy-nilly either, you know, I I do

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look up for the backup documentation uh and I do take the time to sit down with the requestor to say again, what what's the real concern here? Um and you know, and sometimes again and I'm sometimes you do need to bring in counsel. Um

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So and ultimately I'd rather know and have the conversation with my departments and the boards and committees, you know, than not know. Um You know, but but the but the town is looking at ways again to try and educate our boards and

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again limit the amount of times where we need to rely on counsel for these items. >> But and I think that that's admirable, but here we are looking for money because we're coming up short and we're going to come up with a booklet. And when is the booklet going to be done? Where are we getting the booklet from? Are all the committees going to be

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directed to follow the same protocol? I know in the school system we had a protocol you did A, B, or C. Before I got there, A went to F, went back to B, went to H. And so it's almost like you have to guide with a system for

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everybody to fall in. Now, every every round hole doesn't line up. I get that. And Chris, that's an awful lot of responsibility to review letters and determine what has merit and not. And I don't think that's where the catch is. I think the catch is is is what as a town

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where do we protect ourselves with some of the boards? Let's just say for instance, you have you have a zoning board issue and those are always subject to a lot of lawsuits on zoning. And suppose you've got somebody rogue on the board that's pushing and pushing and you

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know that it's the law isn't right. Is there a protocol? Right now, there really isn't. So the town should be able to have a protocol so it can reach out to that member and say, "We do not you know, at this point the law says this and this you know, and you're outside the guidelines." That then indemnifies

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the town from some liability. I could go on and on and on. I I just it needs to be a process and we keep got to stop talking about it and we need to start doing it cuz it's going to it comes into a lot of money. >> Uh, yeah. >> And just to to again to refrain

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ourselves tonight, right? Where we are approving the transfer and all of the things that you just said, Nancy, come into play because it's how the budget's able to be managed all year and whether or not the budget has enough funds and here we are. But those conversations are

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definitely during the budget time or even before the budget time, so we can be having those sort of philosophical operational discussions even before the budget's even put together, right? So there's different times that that those are two great

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points you brought up that we can have it at a non-budget or before the budget's being compiled, but not at this point is where approving the transfer. >> No, I absolutely agree that maybe we need to have a meeting like that because

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doing it at budget time I find it very difficult to address the bigger picture. >> Yeah, it can definitely be in the, you know, some some other kind of it it's kind of an operational discussion right before um, you know, before you kick into the

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budgets and, you know, I'm personally doing that at work right now, having those operational discussions before I work on the budget. So, um, that that that's the time frame to do that, but those are very valid points. Um, anybody else before um, so Chris,

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you've got one more meet then maybe we can just do uh, one vote for all three. So you there's a third one, item C, which was town hall expenses of $5,000 to town hall personnel. >> Yes, uh, so this

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Uh, yeah, so, uh, at the town hall, uh, you know, we have a maintenance staff person uh, within our budget, you know, we allocate a certain amount of overtime, you know, again for storms, um, for um, uh, clean the building, closing the

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building, uh, making himself available if people are coming for services in the evening or after business hours. And so this transfer will cover over to that line. From the FY 26.

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I know one of the bigger activities that occurred over this fiscal year was the upgrade at town hall to our HVAC system and a lot of that work again just to limit the impact to the operations and the hours at town hall

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was done outside of some of the normal business hours. So I know that there was some evenings that he had to stay again for that to facilitate that. >> Great. Go ahead Al. Thank you Chris. >> Thank you. Yeah, thank you Chris.

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Pardon me, I would like to separate the um, items A and B from C. >> Sure thing. Any other questions on item C? No. All right, so let's let's do um,

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to save ourselves a little time. Item one item A was the select board personnel 14,000 to legal and town hall expenses 18,160.45 to legal. Are we okay doing both of those as one motion together?

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>> Sure. >> All right. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. Any further discussion? >> [clears throat] >> Nope. All right, I will do a roll call. Al. >> Nay. >> Hugh. >> Hugh Morton I.

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>> Zack. >> Zack Labreau I. >> I think Gary is still gone. >> I'm here. >> Oh, there you are Gary. HI GARY. BACK. >> [laughter] >> WHEN DID YOU COME BACK, GARY? DO you know? >> I don't I My phone went dead, so I couldn't but 10 minutes ago.

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Uh yes. >> All right, thank you. Uh Duncan? >> Duncan Law, I. >> Cindy? >> Cindy Brown, I. >> Nancy? >> Nancy Stanton Cross, I. >> And Karen Ralls, I. Um so Gary, we'll put you back at You've

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been How long have you been back for? Cuz we just got our note making it up. >> I was in at 7:20. I think they just >> put you back at 7:20. All right. Thank you. All right, then the um item C was Town Hall expenses $5,000 to

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Town Hall personnel. So that's the one we already talked about, but we separated out. So if no further questions, I'd like a motion, please. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Any further discussion on that? Nope. All right, so I'll

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um start with the roll call. Al? >> I. >> Hugh? >> Hugh Morton, I. >> Zack? >> Zack Labreau, I. >> Gary? >> Yes. >> Duncan? >> Duncan Law, I. >> Cindy?

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>> Cindy Brown, I. >> Nancy? >> Nancy Stanton Cross, I. >> And Karen Ralls, I. All right, that takes us to our transfers. I think we got all of them. Uh yes, we did. All right. Okay.

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Um not much else on the agenda. I just wanted to add in case anybody had anything for committee or liaison updates they wanted to update us on. >> Karen, just one comment as a follow-up to what Nancy was discussion discussing. Um

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perhaps like our meeting, you know, October, November, before we really get cranking on budgets, we could set up an agenda item to discuss um things like the um um you know, the the litigation issues or

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the legal account, the the ambulance service. I mean, operational type issues within the town. I think it would be a a great subject to kick around with the other members of the committee and perhaps with some key department heads, certainly with the

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town administrator and maybe some of the other department heads that might be um, uh, involved in in such a discussion that maybe that would be a good October/November meeting agenda item. >> Mhm. Sure. I mean, I think um, I I

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agree. Um, just trying to figure out the the timing of it and and maybe Chris can think about it, too. Um, what we we never really done is have had that operational and planning meeting that sets priorities for the year.

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Um, and that that might be helpful to really to think about it before the numbers all kick in. You're starting to think about where might be the gaps and how what what priorities are there going, you know, what priorities are going to be built in initially and

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um, I think sometimes we roll up the budget and then then we get a list of priorities and then we're trying to squeeze them in um, as as the since you don't know the dollars, you don't know how many priorities can go in and that's all fair, but um, there's certainly elements

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of planning that you can do and have that list of priorities right up front and then I think that would be even helpful to Chris as he's preparing the budget when the numbers come through for revenue, he's already got his list of priorities that have already been discussed.

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And that might be helpful, but um, we've never really had that a collective planning meeting. I mean, with the select board, town administrator, select board kind of just having a general discussion. Go ahead, Chris. I'll let you comment on on that.

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>> Uh yeah, just very briefly. You know, I know that there's been a practice been in place with regards to just the overall budget timeline and scheduling. You know, one of the things that I would like to do going into the summer and into the fall,

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obviously, is just that is having that discussion at least with the board and then potentially is potentially joint meeting with the select board, finance committee, and school committee. Again, to

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just talk about the budget and the process and the timeline and try and get that consensus early on in the process. And also just inform every stakeholder early on what are the challenges that we're going to be facing in the upcoming fiscal year.

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So, you know, I think that those are opportunities again to have that first conversation after we get some good information on on our free cash in the fall. And you know, certainly the other thing I

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just want to say too is that if any of you have suggestions on that process, you know, I am certainly open to incorporating that into this next FY28 budget process timeline. So, I

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encourage you to reach out. >> Great. Thank you, Chris. Um Nancy, is your hand up from before or is that new? >> No, it's up now. >> Okay, go ahead. >> I don't want to belabor the point. I I think it's great to have an operational meeting. For me, being on my first year

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of the finance committee, and this is just coming from my eyes and what I heard, I learn something every single budget meeting with every single representative that came up, whether it was fire, police, you know, you got a lot more insight and you're

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getting into the line items of what they spend money on. And then, not just me, but many board members here had questions on certain line items. Like, why is that there? Or how come we did it that way? And and then we get our answer and then

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we're like, oh, okay, and it we move on with it. So, I just think that the operational meeting's great, but then maybe after each budget meeting, if if anybody has questions, like after that fire, fire, you know, after that presentation, and we got those facts in

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on um uncollected debt, that maybe we make that kind of like a note keeper for an end of the season meeting, where we go, okay, we came, we had questions about this with the fire department. What can we do to help the procedure next year, so maybe we're

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better at collecting money or we can save the town some money. So, that that's the way I was thinking about it, cuz each little facet that comes in, there's questions on some of those lines, and I don't know if I could come into an operational meeting and go, oh,

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this depa- I just it's it's a very large ball that we're playing with. So, um I I I think it's a great idea. I would like to see us look and come up with suggestions that could help the town save money, spend their money more wisely. Um but that that was my take on

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it when I heard the budget for the first time. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm I just got lost in what we what was our topic that we were talking about. Oh, Cindy had suggested uh a future

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agenda item. Right, so we'll work. Thank you. I just got lost on where we were. Um all right, so we will we'll we'll we'll talk to Chris at some point on Chris's timeline and I think all of the things are important having an operational discussion

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a freshened up five-year plan all of those sort of elements help us and guide us in in a way that would be helpful rather than trying to do it all at budget time and just basing it on the line items. So all right, so onward we

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go. Anything else any committee or liaison updates that that anyone wants to share here? >> Al has his hand up. >> I have my hand I have my hand up and and

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and this is my niggling thought. As part and and keying off on what Nancy said and and and I think it's very important that what what she said. I would like to have these different

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committees have some guard rails and adhere to adhere to um you know law if you will whether it is the planning board whether it is the

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historical commission whether it is any other any other group so that we do not go down the rabbit hole of more and more and more and more legal um defenses or or or legal issues.

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It's like everybody pops up it's like Whac-A-Mole. Everybody pops up and said I think we need to do ABCD and the next thing you know ABCD brings the town into another

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um you know whatever and another legal legal defense and it happens every year multiple times a year. It's crazy. It's crazy and it's costing us tens of

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thousands of dollars that could be redirected to more productive issues. So, I just I just want to I I just I just wanted to to throw that out. >> Great. Thank you. Go ahead, Hugh.

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>> Uh I'm not going to deal with it, but I think what Al was really suggesting is the Finance Committee takes the role of the Selectmen. So, I'll leave it at that. >> [laughter] >> You know, you know also >> Go ahead, Cindy. Please go. >> Well, I mean

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also, I mean we can't control whether or not people would tend to even if any board is acting to the letter of the law, we cannot control whether or not people want to litigate the fact that they're not happy with that

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interpretation. I mean, we're not saying that we lose all of these these issues in litigation, but we cannot control other people deciding to litigate something that they're not happy with. >> You could not be more correct and Hugh, you could not be more correct. I'm just

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ranting in general. >> [laughter] >> I'm going I I'm I'm old enough I wish I wasn't this old, but I'm old enough to know when we had a $35,000 a year lawyer that litigated all this stuff.

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>> Uncle Carl. >> Exactly. >> Back then gas was 25 cents a gallon. >> Well, it that's not the point. The point is that all of this stuff was stopped at the at at at the uh

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No, never mind. I'm I'm I'm I'm just an old man ranting. All right. >> People >> people are [laughter] far people are far more litigious today than they were before. So I mean I think that it kind of goes with the times. I mean people are willing to litigate.

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>> I think litigious or do they just want to pass the buck and say not my job man. >> Well yeah, a little bit of that too. >> Right. They like to move this on. >> [laughter] >> All right. Keep on moving. >> All right. Move on. I I'm done. >> I was a driver in the Navy but

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also practicing law. Don't sweat the small stuff. >> Right. >> But that is what seems to be obsolete. >> I'm going to move on to item three which is our minutes. Unfortunately I don't recall looking at the April 21st

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minutes. So I think unless everybody else feels comfortable to um make a motion on those but I personally don't recall reading those. >> Nope. >> Okay. >> I I I don't need either one of them as a matter of fact Karen.

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>> Okay. So the May 5th ones I put that on that was the annual town meeting. So we actually we posted that that we potentially would have a meeting if we had a topic but we ended up not calling a meeting. So >> Okay. >> I can just put something together that

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just says that we had a meeting. No meeting was held. So I'll we can put that together just for the file but there there are no minutes cuz we did not call a meeting and we did not discuss anything. Um All right. So we'll skip over the April

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21st meetings. Um I have no correspondence. Our next meeting would typically be in July. Um we can play it by ear. Sometimes we skip July and move into August. I will

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say that even though we don't have topics that the July meeting is usually our annual reorganization and we appoint committee members and if when we when we wait till August, that's putting all the committees waiting for our appointments.

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So, I prefer to just have the July meeting and maybe no August meeting. So, this way we can get our committee appointments to the select board so they can because our appointment is in June 30th and so if we don't meet till August, that there's a long delay if a committee

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is trying to meet without a finance representative. So, the next meeting would be in July if that works. >> Okay. >> With the primary topic to just set the reorganization and committee meetings.

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I have nothing else. >> I have one thing if which has nothing to do with with finance committee. If anybody is interested on July 4th at 250, the 250th anniversary of

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the founding of our country at the Bell Schoolhouse at the head of Westport, there is a bell ringing. 13 bells 13 colonies. So, I just wanted to toss that out to anybody that is

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there and I think it it it it would be fun. >> That's exciting. >> So, >> It's going to be great. You got to spread that word around. >> Well, we have. Yeah, yeah, Facebook and all the other stuff but I I just wanted to toss that one out.

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>> All right. Thank you for that. >> Uh and on on that note, I would also like to personally thank you Morton for his uh his uh attendance uh all these years and his dedication and >> Yeah. >> his

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unwavering attention to all of all of the items. Thank you so much, Hugh. I learned a tremendous amount in my early days here on uh on the board from you, and you've always been very wise counsel to all the members here, and uh I I appreciate it, and um

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we're very sorry to see you go. >> Thank you very much. Everything I know I learned from McCarthy. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> So, this is this is this this is the last one for you, Hugh. >> That is it indeed. Yep. >> It is indeed.

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>> Oh my gosh. >> Uh there is a rumor I'm going to be uh asked to join the CPC as a as a member in July. >> Oh, all right. >> I might be seeing you eventually, but >> That's great. >> I expire as of June 30th. >> That's great.

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>> Stick with it. >> Hugh, I I echo Cindy's comments that um you've been terrific on the committee, and um you you're always succinct and to the point, and you don't waste words, and I think that uh is

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commendable, and um we'll we will miss you cuz you've been a solid anchor for us here, so. >> Thank you very much. >> Yes. >> Yeah, thank you for everything. I've learned a lot from you, too, in my my 10 years with you. >> Yep. I always have, Hugh. >> All right.

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>> Mhm. >> All right, we can we're going to wrap this one up. If we're done >> Motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> All right, I will do a roll call then. Al? >> Al is I. >> Hugh, this is it. >> And Morton I. >> Hugh Morton signing off.

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>> That's it. Sign out. Uh Zach? >> Zach Labreau I. >> Gary? >> Yes. >> Duncan? >> Duncan La I. >> Cindy? >> Cindy Brown I. >> Nancy? >> Nancy Stetson I. Good luck, Hugh. Thank

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you very much. I enjoyed [clears throat] >> you for everything, Hugh. >> I enjoyed We we had very good intellectual battles for years, and I was looking forward to serving on a board with you and not long enough but >> [laughter] >> thank you very much. >> Thank you. I think I have most of my marbles still.

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>> [laughter] >> Much respect to you. You certainly do. >> Thank you. Thank you everyone. Good night. >> Good night. Thank you.