Welcome everyone. Today is Tuesday, January 20th, 2026. This is the finance committee meeting. It's 6:32 and I'd like to call the meeting to order with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United
States of America standy and justice for all. >> Under Mass General Law, Chapter 3A, section 20F, this meeting is being recorded. On March 28, 2025, Governor Healey signed into law a bill which
extends the ter temp temporary provisions pertaining to the open meeting law to June 30th, 2027. Specifically, this further extends the public bodies to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the public body physically present at a meeting location and to provide adequate
alternative access to remote meetings. The language does not make any substantive changes to open meeting law other than extending the expiration date of the temporary provisions regarding remote meetings for March 31st, 2025 to June 30th, 2027.
H right out. Yeah, >> that's just, you know, one paragraph. Try to do it in one breath. Uh well, hi everyone. Um so we're going to continue with our budget uh meetings for fiscal 27 with
the department. So tonight we have four budgets to review. We have the fire department with Chief Baldwin, recreation with Dana Stewart, assessors with Theo Gabriel, and planning board with Michael Burus. Um the plan would be
to go in that order. Um unless anyone has anything specific that they have a commitment and need to leave. Um but if everyone's okay with that timing, we'll we'll go right ahead in that order. Um, let me make sure our chief, are you with
us tonight? Am I seeing you here yet? There's There's the chief. Hi, Chief. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Good. Thank you. We'll let you um we'll start you off with your budget and um we'll I'll I'll take let you take
over from here. >> Okay. Um thank you for having me. >> Nice to see you. you know, open up the meeting by just thanking uh members of the finance committee for your continued support of our department. Um, as you know, we're a growing department. We continue to
answer more calls, a wider variety of services every year and do everything that we can uh within our power to keep cost down and uh in order to maintain a safe and effective um operation. We've been pretty busy as as you know, usual.
um already done 200 calls this year. We had a building fire, substantial building fire today on Old Haba Road. Uh was little Compton property but right on the line. So obviously we were um second due and our guys got in there and you know did some work. It was a caught fire that extended to the garage and extend
into the house. Um at that time our ambulance was out so we did only have one person in this station which presented some challenges but um we did what we do best and we we make it work. Um we had uh let's see we did a little over
3,200 runs last year fire and EMS we did right around 1,800 a little more transports. Um we presented a level funded expense budget for this the year that we're currently operating in. Um so
you know there was no increase there. We're making we're making that work as best we can. We've had some financial challenges on the expense end this year. Um, we had a circulator fail in the basement of station one was about $4,000 for the heating system. Um, vehicle
maintenance is always a challenge for us. We, as I reminded the committee before, we have a, you know, a fairly decent sized fleet of heavy duty vehicles, diesel trucks. Um,
you know, those are >> Sorry, Chief. You're Chief, you seem to be breaking up to me. >> You're breaking You're breaking up quite a bit. >> Um, our tank, >> which is Can you hear us, Chief? >> 20 years old.
>> Yeah. >> Chief, can you hear us? Can you hear us? you were really breaking up. We were only getting about every other >> week. We had a $6400 repair on that truck. That was that was pretty big. That was pretty
big. Um, so that was a little bit to the line. Again, being level funded. >> Chief, are you able to hear us? >> Oh, we might have just lost the chief, maybe. just in case. >> I think we lost the chief.
Um, while he's coming back, let me take a second because I do this every single meeting and totally forget to um announce all our committee members that are here. Uh so tonight we have um finance committee members Duncan Law,
Hugh Morton, Eliz, Zack Labru, Gary Carrero, Christopher Thrasher, Nancy Stan Cross, Cindy Brown, and myself. So we have all nine members with us tonight. So um I always fail I always fail to forget to do that at the beginning of a meeting. But
>> Karen, did you mention Duncan Brown? Duncan Law are the >> I did. He was the first one I did mention, but thank you. Duncan Law is here. >> Thank you. >> Can you hear me now? >> Yes, we can hear you. >> Yep, that's better.
>> I'm at the station, so I guess we're having a internet issue. So, I'm going to I'm going to keep my camera off. Maybe that's just too much bandwidth. >> Yes. >> So, we'll start with just the voice. So, uh I'll recap and I'll summarize. Um again, we we thank the committee for all
your support over the years. um the added staff member last year. Um we came in level funded on the expense side. We're making do as best we can. We have had some some substantial hits this year. Um you know, we always have obviously your day-to-day operations
expenses. We we do run two fire stations. We have a heavy fleet of of diesel apparatus. You know, equipment needs to be ready to go. We're in the business of saving lives and protecting property. So, you know, our equipment when when it's in need of repair, it's not something that we can just shelf. Um, we try and do those repairs in-house
to keep cost down, but obviously we can't we can ignore the need to keep our equipment ready to go. Um, we had a $6,400 repair to the tanker uh last week. Um, that truck all in all, honestly, it doesn't cost us that much. It is 21 years old. That was a, you
know, an out of the ordinary expense. Um, that one hit hit little hit a little hard. um a circulator in the HVAC room uh for the hot water, not the hot water tank, but the uh the boiler uh that failed. That was four grand. And our
elevator is currently out of service. Um and the repair estimate on that is $16,000. Um so we're working we're working with the town's administrator and uh the town's insurer to see if that's something that can be covered. Hopefully keep the the cost down. Clearly my budget, especially coming in level
funded, doesn't have an extra 16. Um I think we're actually down to around seven uh in the building line. So I I clearly don't have it, but um that that discussion continues to be had. Um actually got in touch with the claims adjuster earlier today. Um and I we
actually had a building fire. Not not sure if you guys caught that part of my opening, but we were at a fire most of the afternoon on Old Hava Road. Um so I I didn't get a chance to to call him back, but he did get an email. So we're working on that. Um,
again, you know, 3,200 runs a year, a little bit more. We're up to 200 runs already since January 1, so we're averaging around 10 10 calls a day. Um, so we for a small department, you know, we we stay we stay busy. Um, whether it's not station maintenance or just
just calls in general. Um, we put this budget together. You know, this year was a little bit earlier than normal. We were asked to start working on it in August, which, you know, is fine, but I always find it's a little bit of a challenge because we're only, you know, one or two months
into the fiscal year that we're currently in. And, you know, how do I really know where we're going to end up by the time the year's over? For example, um we do a a pretty strong analysis of our week- toeek expenses. And I have um what I just, you know, labeled a year year-over-year expense
sheet that I have, and it it tracks week to week our expenses. So, you know, heat this year versus last year. Where where were we? Are we up? Why are we up? Are we down? Good. Why are we down, etc. So, we're noticing heats up. I'm sure you guys as home owners are noticing heats up. It's been a it's been a, you know,
fairly cool or cold winter. Um, but, you know, those costs continue to rise. Um, we were asked to come in level funded again. Um, it didn't seem to be as as strong of a stance as last year. Um, but you know,
again, always trying to work with the town when it comes to our budget. We we're only up about 13 on the expense side, and those are real costs. Um, if you'd like, just let me dive into my computer here. Um, you know, just for
anybody that's new on the committee, uh, how the Westport Fire Department operates, we are all firefighter paramedics, every one of us. So, what does that mean? It means we're dual role. Um, in your city, you pay your firefighters and and then you pay your EMS people separately. In Westport, uh,
you get two for the price of one. If the phone rings or the Well, we don't really use the phone anymore with modern technology, but if the tones go off, medical, get in the ambulance. If the tones go off and it's a fire, we get in the fire truck. Um, so, uh, we currently have two fire
stations in town. Um, they're staffed at a minimum of two in each station. Our strongest shift uh has a complement of six two shifts now actually have six firefighters to have five firefighters. Uh our goal as you know for 20 years has
been to have four sixperson shifts. Uh the time the time for us to have four six person shifts uh has come and gone. That was a long time ago. We're we are behind the eightball every time we go out the door. We are under staff. We are we are struggling to meet standards. Um, my goal as a chief is to make sure
everybody goes home safe and in one piece. Um, and it's very tough for a town like ours, especially 64 square miles, to sometimes put it together with with what we have. And you know, it'd be remiss if I didn't say how often
our members off what they're doing at home and respond in to make it work. Um yesterday we had multiple calls in a row a roll over on Route Six, fire alarm, some medicals. Uh guys ran in the station, grabbed the trucks to get to the additional calls that were coming in
so we didn't have to rely on mutual aid and and they're they're very good at that and that's just again just what we do. Um we're pretty busy actually over the weekend mainly with the storm. We had a couple of rollovers, some vehicle extrications, etc. Paw fire. I'm just looking at the law quick while I talk to
you. Um, so we will dive into our requests for the year and I'll do this in order. So on the personnel side, um, I'm not sure how you want me to do this if you want me to go line by line, but you have some increases with the department head,
assistant department head, administrative assistant. Those are all the direction either of the town, you know, with the non-union personnel and personnel bylaws. um call firefighter increase is minor uh just to uh we have about n excuse me we
have about nine call firefighters right now. Um so we just basically took the dollar amount that was in there and 3% and that brought us to the new total. Um the biggest request that we have um is for uh one to two new hires. two new
hires would finally get us to where we really, really, really need to be, which is four six person shifts. Um, that comes at a price tag. This is including the regular uh CBA increases for the existing members. That would be $219,18
for two new hires. One new hire um would be $145,740. Again, that number includes the contractual obligations for the existing members. Um and no new hires uh would be the contractual obligations on the professional line which is basically
salaries alone is 70 72,361. Um I want to update you as much as I can. I don't have unfortunately have a a strong update but last year I did mention to you folks that we were looking at something called a CPE audit involving Medicaid. Um we've been asked
many times before to find creative ways to make our budget work to bring on this extra staff. Uh, we found a creative way. Um, there was some, you know, I know there was a little bit of skepticism whether or not it would work. Um, we did the preliminary worksheet. We turned it in and the dollar amount came
back to 150,000 in additional revenue. I want to say it was like 150,900 and change. Um, we're waiting to hear back on that number. Um, it was submitted in October. Typically around the first of the year, you get a they they kind of
kick it back in and and there's, you know, they ask questions, especially this year being our first year. Verify this, verify that. Um, no, no, Bristol County Chief has heard back yet from the auditors. Uh, Haley did put out an email um today and she did hear back that our
our uh request for reimbursement, Medicaid reimbursement in addition to the revenue that we bring in through billing is currently under desk review. Um, so it is moving forward. Again, the preliminary worksheet showed 150,000. Can I guarantee that's what it'll be? No. It could be $150. I don't I just
don't know. This is our first year doing it. Um, talking to other chiefs, the worksheet, the preliminary number that you get on the worksheet is usually pretty uh in line with what you actually receive at the end of the year. Um, so that 150 would certainly help to offset
the cost of of new hires. Um, and again, new hires also potentially puts a third amus on the road more often than not, bringing in more revenue, less mutual aid requests, which is revenue that we lose. Um, stronger and safer community, better service, which the taxpayers deserve and expect from our department,
which we try very hard to do. Um, so that's probably one of the bigger line items there. Uh, scrolling down a little bit more to overtime. Before you um could I just ask a question before you go because I'm I'm not clear on on your so the how many
positions do you have in your budget and how many positions did the town administrator agree to in in that budget and are is there a discrepancy still that you are looking for more than what's in the
budget? I'm just not clear where that stands. I requested two additional personnel to get us to four six person shifts. He sent me back his budget worksheet which I I would assume you're in possession of. Um and he approved
tenatively one additional firefighter. So it looks like he gave us the funding for one new hire which would bring us to three sixperson shifts and still have one at five. So your >> that was a previous previous town administrator.
>> Okay. And so you so you would still feel you would need one more one more than what's in the budget. Is that is that correct? >> 100%. >> Yep. Yes, we do. >> Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Okay. You know, I I just I don't want to go on too much tonight because I know it
would kind of take up a large chunk of your meetings, but just just from an operational standpoint to have to have one shift at odd from the rest when it comes to policy and procedure just makes it just makes our interruption our our our general orders, our standing
operating procedures, our policies, our training, everything that we do having an oddball shift, not two oddball shifts, it just in addition to the delivery of services, it just makes it very difficult to have one shift. Okay. But when you guys come in, we're going to do things completely different because believe it or not, and you'd
have to do our job to understand it. Having that one extra person is a huge difference. You know, you can put two guys in an engine, two guys in an ambulance when you're going to a Jaws call. If I only have three people down here, I'm putting one person in a fire engine. And that's that's departments
have moved away from that a long time ago, but we still are forced to do it because we just don't have that staff. And even in our even on our back fills, um you know, we're still recalling one person. So both ambulances go out and there's the duty crew if we're at a four
person minimum, which is what we operate at, you'll have one person covering the entire town of Westport, one person. It it's, you know, that that's we're still behind the eightball there. We really should be getting two people in. We're again, we're not meeting the standards that are that are out there. Um and
we're just not keeping our members safe and we're we're opening ourselves up for risk and liability. uh by not having proper staffing. Um >> and chief, what would what's the cost of one one additional just is that >> cost of one additional including the
72,000 contractual obligation for the pay increase is 145,000. So it's roughly right around 72 for for a member. >> Okay. 72,000. Okay. >> Right. Yeah. I have I'm sorry. I have a lot of notes on my desk for >> That's okay. That's just a ballpark.
That's fine. Um before before you keep going, I think Al has his hand up, so I think um Al, go ahead. >> Hi, I do. Hi, Chief. >> I just a very quick question. Looking ahead, one, two, three years down the road. So,
>> how many people do you do you anticipate cycling off through retirement? Let's say I mean, where are we going to be if we if we don't backfill now? Where are we going to be three years from now? or where are you going to be three years from now? Um,
>> yeah, that's a good that's a good question. So, I have one I have one retirement coming up in July. Um, and we are so we had we had one firefighter um that left us, went to Bridgewater for
higher pay and a stronger shift strength. Uh, he stood on here as a callman. He likes the fire department. He likes working here, but he needed an increase in pay. Uh, Bridgewwater has 11 members per shift. Uh, so he he made the move. It wasn't an easy one. He actually was in my office today. Uh, you know,
just stopped in and we were chatting and um some things up there. He doesn't like the grass isn't always green on the other side, but he needed to make a financial move for the betterment of his family. Um, so, you know, in comparison with some other departments, we, you know, we're not the strongest. We don't
have the strongest contract out there. So, it's it's tough to attract new help. Um, and we're we're feeling that. But I will say this, every department's feeling it. It's there's I don't know if it's a generational issue. Um, the fire service in general is seeing a decline
in in across the country in volunteers and call firefighters. Uh, people that want to be medics. I think it has a lot to do with COVID. Um, I did a research paper for my capstone for my masters and it was all about, you know, recruitment and retention and it was right a little
bit after COVID. Um and everything just pointed that a lot of people got scared out of the industry. A lot of schools closed up, didn't reopen. Um there's only a couple schools left in our area. Um one of them is in the Cape. So that's a hike if you want to go back and forth there three, four times a week to get your medic. Medic program is about two
years. The cost is reason anywhere I want to say 10 to $15,000. Um which you know in hindsight if you're going to college to get a degree is going to cost you a lot more than that, right? So you know but it's still um is a struggle there. And so we posted a
position for a long time and applicants were far and few between. Some applicants I they didn't even make sense. They were they were from Florida with no plan to relocate here. I think it was just people almost fishing. I I didn't quite understand it. Um we finally did find a new hire, but he's
going to be a short-timer. He he told me that he's a he's a premed student. His resume is unbelievable. He's extremely smart. Um he loves medicine. and he loves emergency medicine and he got into uh part of a fire working for their EMS
division over there. He really likes the fire side of the job. Um he wants to work in Westport mainly because he wants the longer transport time so we can have more time to work with the patient. But unfortunately he'll be three three or four years, five years and then I think we'll see him probably depart. Um but to
be truth truthful, I don't really have anybody else waiting in the queue um to to hire and we need we need bodies. So I got to get him in here. I think it'll benefit our department on the EMS side. I think he'll I think he'll be a strong leader and and somebody that can teach us, you know, and improve our skill
sets. Um, but it's definitely a challenge getting people in. So, when you discuss that looking down the road, I'm already looking at July, I'm already racking my brain saying that if you know the finance committee does approve and the town approves and we are able to hire a couple more, you know, what's this process going to be? It is
so hard to get firefighters in and every chief I talked to in Bristol County is dealing with the same the same challenges right now of getting people in the door. Um, and we've had some applicants, they don't, you know, they're not medics or they don't meet the standard and and they're living in
the Cape. Again, we have a residency requirement here and the cost of relocating anywhere in Massachusetts right now, as you know, is tough. Um, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We do have some call firefighters. They're excellent. um they're I call them kids, but you know they're 18 years old, they're adults. Um
they're going to go in medic school in September. So, they're about three or four years out. In three or four years, we will have four or five solid candidates coming up from the call ranks uh into the full-time ranks. Um one of the benefits of the Explorer program that you guys know that we run. Um
that's a good foundation for developing these firefighters and paramedics up to career jobs. Um you know, so I really like that. some of the new callman were all we're all involved in the explorer program but again they're three or four years out so we do have at least one
retirement in in July um looking at the roster that I talked to you I think I think after that we're we'll probably have a couple of years in between anyone else we are definitely becoming a younger department a lot of the I mean I've been here for 31 years which is crazy when I think about it um but uh I
mean some of the members that are on a department now I don't even think they were born when I got on this department so it's It's it's really wild how how young we've become. Um so beyond honestly beyond the next maybe three or four retirements there's going to be a pretty big gap uh in movement um on our
department and you know we always have to anticipate increased call volume. I think when you hear about all the housing needs in the state um developments like Westport Lakes Drive which is I believe is still going to be moving forward. Uh the ADUs are popping
up. except for a lot of other chiefs we we meet once a once a month. ADUs are popping up everywhere. I know there's been some already that have come up in Westport and I think we're going to continue to see to see those um property, you know, those ADUs grow in
our town. The uh I don't I don't know a whole lot about the whole Airbnb situation, but I do know I want to say that I think I heard Mr. Hartnett say there was like 187 registered. So, you know, the Airbnbs becoming popular in town and those those all drive up call
volume. Um, on the EMS side and the fire side, you know, and when, you know, when I mention fire, I don't mean building fires. Sure, that's part of it, but there's vehicle fires, there's gas leaks, there's carbon monoxide incidents, there's motor vehicle crashes, there's wires down. Um, these are general public assist just just
assisting, you know, elderly or people that can't, you know, maybe it's a sometimes just shutting off a leaking water pipe. you know, we're not plumbers, but we go there and we do that and we help people out and can, you know, protecting property is part of what we do. Um, so as you as you see the population rise in town and housing, you
know, developments, call volume will undoubtedly increase. Um and so you know I think that once we get to four six person shifts I think I think we'll all as a department be pretty comfortable there for a while and then you know we'll just continue to analyze what we
do and >> okay >> and make recommendations based on this you know providing a you know a strong service to the town and you know we'll develop as the town develops as we've we have um you know I'll call our um staffing levels up not not as much as it
should be but we're evolving slowly and doing the best we can. >> Thanks. Thanks, Dan. >> Um, before you go, I think we have another question. Uh, someone's raised their hand. I think it might be Gary. It says name, it says name not available,
so it's Gary. >> Gary. >> Yeah, thank you, Chief. Um, I just wanted to uh, you know, say first and foremost, you you know, um, for everything you we've come a long I think we've come a long way in the last five years in trying to get the compliment up. It's not 100% perfect, but you know,
the same thing that the police are seeing in in the academy. Um, you know, you get you'll get a round from the civil service exam, they'll come down, then they just don't qualify for um for the positions. I think Al makes a good point to keep tracking this going forward if in fact there are um
positions that you know are vacant or uh or what have you. But um as far as the elevator is concerned, um shouldn't we be going to the uh the reserve fund for this? Don't do we have a balance in the reserve fund. Uh this is an unforeseen
an unforeseen um uh expense. >> Yes. And so um I did put a letter into the town administrator requesting possibil possible use of reserve funds. We're trying to I believe it was Mr. Hartner that recommended before he left actually the elevator went down right
during the transmission of town town administrators. Um and Hart said why don't we try making an insurance claim and see if that's something that is doable. um as I spoke to Mr. Vitali Vitali that we'll have to see what the
insurance adjusters say and then see if it's worth it. I don't know enough about the town's insurance to see if there's a you know if the premium spikes because of a of a claim. I I just don't know the answer to that and you know what the best financial decision would be. Um right now I've given um the town
administrator the repair work order, the dollar amount and the request. I'm doing as as much as I can on my end. I I contacted the elevated company numerous times just to be sure that because I almost fell over when I got the price to be sure that this is exactly what is
needed. Um and um you know again I guess Liberty Mutual the town's insured there is an equipment wear and tear it sounds like insurance policy that we have which it sounds like this would fall in line with that. So, um, even if we can drop that request to the reserve account, you
know, down to maybe 10 grand or five grand, whatever, whatever it may be, um, but that that is pending and everything is actively unfolding now. Um, just trying to move forward. I met with one adjuster last Thursday, came down, took photos, took copies of their of their work order, and um, we're just trying to
move forward on on seeing if there's an alternative before we use the reserve fund. But that request >> I mean this is I mean this is exactly what the reserve fund is designed to do espec the the finance committee's reserve fund for unforeseen expenses. So obviously nobody knows the elevator is going to break >> uh you know
>> correct plus we you know we need to be ADA compliant which we're we're not right now. Uh I mean internally >> everybody you know knows if we have to go down to the lobby to conduct business you know because of you know some you know somebody's unable to come upstairs we'll do that. Uh we do hold classes in the basement from time to time and some
of those off for the public. Uh we're going to hold off on those for now and if we had any, you know, meetings in the building, we would probably contact Chief Dunn and see if we can have a meeting at his building for the time being until the elevators repaired. >> Uh one last question, Chief, that I have is the um you know, you know, we got
these developments coming in town and uh obviously there's a lot of a lot more space in in Westport to um to put developments up. Um how closely do you work with the planning board to make sure that these developments are under spec? Uh, you know, I've been down a lot of these new developments and, you know,
you you couldn't even swing swing a pickup truck around some of these some of these culde-sacs. And I think that we need to look at that uh going forward and make sure that, you know, the the main the main um objective is to get apparatus around these around these cults. You know, some of them want to
have plant trees in the middle. They want to put grass. It's great. But, you know, I I the width of some of these roads, you know, I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I agree. Um, so we do work very closely with the planning board. Our fire prevention officer always does a plan review. We get copies of the plan. We go through it. We make
recommendations on everything from um, you know, the base, what is the roadway made up of, uh, making sure that it can handle the weight of our apparatus, where our manhole cover is located, etc. Um, and and turning radius is always part of that conversation. Um, I can't
speak to maybe a development, you know, my parents neighborhood, Holly Lane, Boenberry Drive off of Main Road near Betta Sweet Farm that that was in the 70s. I can't I can't speak to, you know, what went on, you know, on some of these previous developments, but we are very much involved in anything new that comes
in, especially like Westport Lakes Drive. Um, we will go down there with apparatus if needed and and, you know, test the turn radius. There are codes that they have to to adhere to. Um, you know, I can't remember the exact width. I want to say 65 feet is ringing a bell
in my head for a culde-sac. Um, we will deny certain plantings in the middle of culde-sacs depending on on the layout of the neighborhood. Uh, we ensure that they have fire protection systems in place, which is would be a 10,000gallon sistern every 800 feet once the
development exceeds three buildings, possibly four, I think it's maybe three. Um so we do work with them and we we are part of the plan review process. Um we can make recommendations and we can enforce code. Um sometimes our recommendations exceed the code and
we'll and it does not mean that we'll be adhered to but it you know we'll put it out there as to why we're looking for this giving certain unique situations >> you may referencing. >> All right. Thank you chief. Thanks. Great job. Thanks.
>> Thanks U Chris Vitali. Go ahead. Hi, Chris. >> Hi there. Good evening. I just wanted to um just follow up on something Gary was talking about with regards to the elevator. So, yeah, the chief has provided that information to me. Um you know, we're doing our due diligence
right now to see if it can get covered through insurance. You know, obviously if it's something that we as the county are paying for, um you know, we'd like to see if we can get the value there. Obviously, we know for the reserve fund, you know, those are limited dollars and this is definitely something that would
qualify under that. But again, if we can come to you with part of the request versus the full request, um you know, if any other needs arise this fiscal year, you know, that funding can be available there. So, um I I do anticipate one way or another um whether it's for the full
amount or just perhaps for the deductible. Um you know, that will probably come before the board uh at a future meeting. But just a little bit of background there. And you know, the chief, like he said, he's been um you know, working with our insurance provider to see if we can't get in fact
get that reimbursement. So, um you know, we're on it. >> All right. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, Gary. >> Thank you. Um, Chief, I'll turn it back to you. Um, but I I'll uh we do have your memo that um
Nancy has a question >> and um you you definitely don't need to read through your whole memo um here tonight. Um but so if there's anything else um >> uh Nancy has a question. >> Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Um, so, so, so, um,
so Chief, we'll I'm gonna have Nancy ask her question and then if there's anything else in the budget of significance you want to highlight or if the finance committee has any other questions, we can do that. But you certainly don't uh, we don't need you here to read through the memo. We've had
had it in advance. Um, and it was very detailed. So, um, but go ahead, Nancy. >> Chief, thank you for your report. um on your uh inspections um have you been able to increase your fees uh for your inspections of
commercial properties and new residential properties at all recently? >> We have not increased the fees since I became chief. I did look at fees recently throughout the rest of the county and I want to say with the exception of Taton who has exceptionally
high fees, uh we're pretty much in line with everyone else. I'm not opposed to it. Um, you know, if if if there's areas there uh where we can where it doesn't, you know, I mean, I don't want to hurt the, you know, the the small resident like I
know you mentioned commercial. Um, is something that we can certainly look at and if you'd like, I can draw a comparison or provide you with a comparison with regards to where we stand. Uh I I I could be misspoken, but I believe a year or two ago when
discussion of fees, increasing fees came up, I want to say we were told to hold off or stay where we were. Um I wasn't the chief at the time, but for some reason that's ringing a bell, but I I have checked fees often with I'm actually trying to bring it up right
now. Um are >> your residential are your residential and commercial fees um the same? Well, a commercial sometimes involves a little bit more plan review. There's a fee there. Um, it's it's not the same necessarily as a residential are pretty
pretty straightforward. 26F, $50 fee. So, there are some some additional uh fees that come into play with commercial properties. Like I said, like plan review, fire alarm, if they're going to, you know, depending on what kind of building it is. If there's a sprinkler system that's being installed or a fire
alarm control panel, there would be additional fees there. um annual fees for those type of buildings as well where you know a single family home is only inspected upon the sale of a you know resale real estate sale whereas uh commercial
buildings we are in every single year um doing inspections garages etc supermarkets um >> well I'm just trying to think I'm just trying to understand so if you're going to inspect a hotel So there's a lot more
involved. Is it one flat fee or does it get increased because of the amount of time or manpower to do that inspection that has to be done every year? >> It is one flat fee. We do not charge for the time. Uh we send the fire prevention
officer goes out with Ralph who's building the department. They conduct a joint inspection on those type of facilities and buildings. And we do not have a separate fee schedule. >> And so in your in your research with
other towns, do do you look at the have you looked at whether they have a difference between commercial and residential properties? >> Well, I mean there would be. Yeah. So and same here, you know, a fire alarm, you know, you know, you don't have a fire alarm on control panel in a single family dwelling. You don't have a sprinkler system in a single family
dwelling. So those two components there say at the hotels in town for example which have both right off the bat there's there's more fees involved um any kind of sprinkler work uh hot works welding will draw a permit
um fueling stations will draw a permit annually but there's not a whole lot >> how how long do you lose the service of an officer when they go out for an inspection?
an average inspection for a residential property. >> Well, that's what he does full time. So, he he works Monday through Friday, 40 hours a week, and depending on the size of the building, you know, depends on how long he's there. The more he goes through it, the more familiar he he becomes with the building, the quicker
he can get the inspection done. Um, but that that is what he does in addition to responding to fire and EMS calls like he did today. Um, so it's not necessarily an hourly, you know, component. He's he's a staff employee Monday through
Friday, 40 hours a week, and that's what he um just integrates in in the rest of his day. >> Um and my my last follow-up question is um with your ambulance bills have what
type of collect you doing a collection service or is the town still being its own collection service? >> No, we're still collecting on our own. Um I again I know you and I discussed this last year. we did. >> Um, >> it's still something I debate in my head. I've talked with some other chiefs
and I just don't know. I don't know at the end of the day with the fee that the collection company takes, which is 4%. And then the pressure that they put on the resident um to pay outstanding balances. Part of me is just not that comfortable with that. Um, and I know that the town
needs money, but I don't want to I don't want to press a an 80-year-old single individual that's struggling to make ends meet with a bill. Now, there are hardship forms and there are waiverss uh that you can that we can implement. It's a significant
process. It would be a dramatic change for our residents. Um, we actually just talked about this last week. I was talking with it uh with the Mansfield fire chief about it and I asked him how he goes about um you know waving off fees co-pays mainly um and there is a
process it would be a change for us so if that's something that town wants me to look at further with the understanding that you know it may not go over that well with our residents um I'll do my job and and look into it further but I just want everybody to
understand that you know it may not be wellreceived. >> How much like uh do you refer to it from year to year when you have unpaid bills? Does it uh is it considered like a bad debt that you carry on your books from year to year? >> Yeah, it's it's generally waved off at
the end of the year. Um in accounting terms, it I actually just talked to Haley. We just talking about this the other day. Um, I'm not sure what they do at town hall or how how they swipe it, remove it from the books. >> So, every year you start at zero.
>> Every year, yes. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> All right. Thank you. >> Welcome, >> Ken. I have a I have a followup. My my button my raise hand button is is telling me that it's not working. It's
telling me that for some reason >> it is not >> it's not working. Um Chief, um how much money would you say you, you know, is is balance? You know, how much of a balance is there for those
that um you know, the co-pays or the amounts that are not covered by insurance? If you had to guess, how much would you say you're leaving on the table? >> I can't say. I I don't I don't know the answer to that question. I wouldn't want to misspeak. >> Okay.
>> Um >> fair enough. I mean, you know, not knowing >> that one. >> That's fine. All right. Thank you. >> Um thanks Cindy. Uh Al, go ahead. >> Yeah, I just uh thank you. I just wanted to tee off for a second on on on NY's
question about uh you know, commercial versus residential fees and and whatever. Westport is an extremely and and you know in full disclosure I own no commercial property in this town anymore. So I I don't have any skin in
the game. But I just wanted to say that that that knowing the uniqueness of not having water, not having sewer, uh the the small businesses in the town, what if if if we separated and I'm just picking up a number. Yeah. Let's say
that we increase the uh the residential versus commercial rate by 25%. I don't you know ju just pick a number. Would that really move the needle in a $54 million budget? I mean,
are we really >> Oh, are you talking about the tax rate or the chief's the the fees for for the um uh you know, for the fire department? That that's that's I I should have made myself more clear, Cindy. Uh and
you know, we have a revenue problem in this town. There's no question about it. But the question then becomes uh targeting one group of people or or classification over another. Uh I think we need to to really rethink that or or
at least think about that. not rethink it, but but rethink it in a way that that um sees what it adds to the revenue of the fire department, what it adds to or what it subtracts from these small
local businesses that you know, every other town in the area and and and Dan, you can make the point and I and I wouldn't disagree with you, but think of another town in the area that you you're talking to that has well and septic
systems and not town water. >> Just for clarification, I'm not targeting anybody. I'm asking a question about >> residential versus commercial. It's a question >> targeting was the wrong word and that that I used and and I'll I'll take that
back. So, let's let's not get into that. What I'm saying is that two classifications of of uh you know residential versus commercial at two different fee structures, two different tax rates and whatever has never up to
this point anyway proven to really move the needle when it comes to the need for um for revenue for the town. And and so that's I I just wanted to to to make that point. And there are unique situations in this town uh in a negative
way really when it comes to you know I know I've said it way too many times uh uh uh town water town sew except for the very at the narrows they kind of make these a moot point to
some extent. Yeah. I I mean, again, just just, you know, the fire prevention office brings in about 27 to $30,000 a year on average in in permits and fees. Your re your regular residential structure again is inspected upon the sale of the building,
$50 fee. You take a you take a business um like uh Trips Boatyard, for example, that has fuel storage, fuel hose, and general inspection. There's three inspections in one. that's going to cost that business $150 annually. Um, so you know, those
those commercial buildings, they are paying an annual fee versus the resident where the resident you you buy a house, you don't sell it for 30 years, you only pay that $150 fee. A business and a commercial business, whether it's a garage, a hotel, a grocery store, a
restaurant, they're paying annual inspection fees. um you know so they are they are paying more than the resident to an extent. While the fee may be the same across the you know in terms of dollars $50 for the permit they are also
paying for multiple permits um each each year multiple inspections. But they are they are being in in in all you know they are being assessed basically a a higher fee than a single family dwelling
a residence annually. >> Thanks Chief. Um Pew, you've got your hand up. Go ahead. >> I just want to say I think that's a big difference between the tax rate commercial versus residential. That's just a number that's assessed based to
raise money. Fair enough. And I agree with the fact that uh assessing commercial hire under the circumstances we have really wouldn't make much difference. Sounds to me like the fire department's approach is perfectly sensible. But all I was going to say was
maybe worth taking a look at the amount of time involved in doing the inspections for various commercial uh activities. Boatyard's a good example. You don't want it to burn down. you want to make sure it is a highly risk kind of
environment that the the storage of fuel and so forth is done properly etc. So there I don't think necessarily there is need for an increase but I think there is an an opportunity for a review of the
amount of time that is spent in doing the various inspections cumulatively for this kind of organization. Time means money expended by the town for for salaries etc. as opposed to the
refu actually brought in. Fair point. Fair point. >> Yeah. And I would say I would just, you know, remind the committee that our fire prevention officer um again it's it's one person in addition to the inspections which is multiple throughout
the day. He's also covering our station. He's responding to medicals. He was he was on a handline today in that building fire. Um so he's we're you know he's he's essentially three jobs in one. If you look at the city of Fall River, my wife works at a very large business in New Bedford on the waterfront. Uh when
they have a fire inspection there, she actually sending me pictures. The fire prevention officer comes, a ladder company comes, an engine company comes, the battalion chief or the district chief comes. There's multiple companies. And when I say company, fire companies that provide an inspection in a lot of
those environments. Uh where Westport we don't have that luxury. I would love to be able to put you guys in the engine and say head out with the FBO and conduct a thorough investigation of this not investigation, a thorough inspection of this of this building. Um, you know, which again, we're there our inspections. We don't we don't do
inspections to collect fees. We do inspections to make sure the environment is safe for people to visit, to shop, to stay overnight, whatever it may be. Um, it's nothing that we want to we want to rush through. Um it it takes a lot of
time and and followup. You're almost guaranteed to find a compliance issue. Usually they're not deliberate. Usually they're just general oversightes. If people are trying to run a business, they're not thinking about the fire department and the prevention bureau most of the time. Um so there's follow-ups more often than not with a
lot of these buildings. Um it's it's pretty intense job. >> A lot of responsibility and liability. >> The right thing and the right approach. My only question was to see whether the amount of revenue for doing
appropriately intensive inspections matches the amount of time and maybe resources committed to it. That's all. >> Got it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Hugh. Um Duncan, you've got your hand up. Go ahead. >> Yeah, thanks Chief Baldwin. Uh I I think
we're nibbling around the edges here with inspections and, you know, and revenue. I mean, the big story that I've heard from Chief Baldwin is he needs another firefighter. So, I think that's where we need to go and I think we need to stop talking about $50 inspections.
Thanks. >> Thanks, Duncan. Appreciate that. Um, does anyone know I I mean, I agree with you, Duncan. I mean the this to me the story is the the one additional fire firefighter is the big issue with this
budget. But um I do support you know any department to be looking at all its revenue sources and to see is there any opportunity to to increase it or to at least discuss increasing it. Um, but then you have to determine how does that
impact the residents and and is the value of the revenue increase really worth it what it does. But I do encourage we should be looking at all revenue in and all opportunities to increase it to discuss it. But um
anyway, does anyone else have any other questions on chief's on the fire budget u for expenses? >> If I could add just one quick thing. We're running on time here, but it's it is important. And in terms of revenue, so community parame medicine uh has been
around for a little while. Uh we don't do it here in Westport. Uh what basically community parame medicine is is somebody's discharged from the hospital. Uh they are now home, maybe they need IV fluids, they need antibiotics, they need, you know,
medication, what have you. Uh paramedics are now going to these homes and treating the patient there. Sometimes they're assisting with teleaalth. One of the main goals behind it is to avoid the patient going back to the ER. Our ER and hospital system as you know is they're
overextended. Um and so this is one of the reasons why that program came up. We touch on community parame if we can evolve into um community parame medicine program which you don't necessarily need an ambulance to do it. A lot of departments are using vans or
whatnot. you can go out to these homes, you can treat these people, keep them at home, keep them out of the hospital, and it may provide another source of billing. So, if we were to provide vaccinations, for example, I believe, and I I I may be wrong, but I believe when the um town nurse provides
vaccinations, I believe she obtains her insurance information and they're able to bill their insurance provider for homebound vaccinations or flu clinics that they may run, etc. um if we were to start doing things along that line, not taking away from the town nurse responsibility, I'm talking about something a little bit more in depth
with um you know, fluids and IV fluids and IV antibiotics, etc. Um that there is potentially billable and again if we were at four six person shifts and we had six people on all six of them being paramedics, we may be able to send a
duty core out for these appointments essentially uh and bill and bring in revenue. We are exploring that. Uh my EMS coordinator is getting information on community parame medicine. Uh we're making sure as a department that it's something that we can actually provide that our staff is on board with it. Um
there's a lot of training that goes comes with it, but it's something that we are actively looking at. Um just talked to Haley very recently about is there a billing mechanism for this and she's trying to get answers on it and to see if that's something that we can do. Um and I can keep you posted on that.
But that there would certainly bring in some more revenue. We're we're very much looking at that. That's that's the future of EMS. That's the future. And if if we don't jump on board with it, we're going to be behind. >> Thanks, Chief. Hugh, go ahead. You've got your hand up. >> Yeah. I just going to say that sound
like it overlaps some of the visiting nurse kinds of things in terms of people discharged from the hospital. The hospitals agree with you completely. They desperately want people not to come back to the hospital after they've been released because it has adverse
financial effects and billing etc. That's not the same thing as vaccines and other things. But I think there is an overlap which you may already have in mind already be discussing but I think that's if you haven't that's something I think to keep in mind.
>> We'll do. >> Thanks you Al. Go ahead. Yeah, I just wanted to to quickly uh, you know, applaud uh the chief and and his crew for looking into alternatives. I think that is a really valuable next step into
overall health care, especially in a place like Westport that the demographics get older and older as we go. And you know, I just uh you know, what whatever whatever works and whatever. I just want to applaud uh
Chief Baldwin and uh whomever else is is involved in exploring these other options. Not necessarily although you know the finances are part of it of course. I mean we're we are the finance committee after all but just overall
health care in in the town and I and I uh I just want to give a thumbs up to to them for for even thinking about that. >> Thank you. And we we have been in contact with a local local hospital system um I won't mention the name at this point but we have been in contact
with a local system um regarding a program like this mobile integrated health and community parame medicine and they expressed an interest in potentially wanting to work with us. Um um we've even explored doing transfers. So a Westport resident goes to an area hospital and needs to be transferred
back. They would be transferred by us back to home and assisted back into the house. and that too can be billable. >> Thanks, Chief. So, um I'd like to keep us moving. So, we do have a few other budgets to go, but I want to make sure
Chief you have the opportunity if you have anything else that you wanted to add. >> Um, >> no, you know me, I could go on for hours trying to explain and I apologize for that. I know we're always long run, but there's just so much to try and squeeze into a meeting to help us for another year and
>> um there's just so much more to say. We did get $130,000 EMAC from the state. We received a $56,000 grant from AFG. Uh we are awaiting uh the release of a $19,000 grant. So we've had some some good um financial assistance this year and we
will continue to uh continue to apply for grants whenever they become available. >> All right. Well, thank you, Chief, for coming. We appreciate it and um thanks for all all you and your whole department do. So, thank you very much. Thank you.
>> All right. Take care. Good night. >> Bye. >> All right. Uh, so our next budget we're going to do is the recreation department with Dana Stewart. And I think Dana is here. Let's see if she's >> a she is. Hi there. How are you?
>> I'm good, thank you. >> Good. >> I will turn it over to you to talk about the recreation budget. >> All right. Well, thank you for having me this evening and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have as I go over things. Um, I sent a packet to everyone.
I hope you had a chance to glance at it. Um, just referencing the front page. Um, I always like to include some photos of our recreation uh, programs and events because what we do is very visual and very happy and joyful most of the time.
So, I hope you got to see some of those uh, great pictures. Um they range from our adult pickleball lessons we had um a booth we had at the police uh uh night out um kids in our nature camp. uh our
youth rowing program, our art week camp, um talent show performance on stage and our summer concerts, our events such as our Easter um extravaganza, our Halloween event, adult um art workshops,
our our new cheerleading program that we did. So, that's kind of just a sample of everything um that we do throughout the year. Um it's been seven years since I started the department um back in December 2018. So, it's been a pleasure
to uh grow this department and right now um in terms of the fiscal year 2027 um it's pretty simple and the general account is my salary um at 32 weeks um
and then 2,000 that the select board had given us for just general expenses. Um, so that's kind of our general account. Very simple. Everything else um that we do comes from the revenue that we generate from the programs that we offer
and the fees that we collect as well as the rentals for the annex gym um which has really increased too. Um so um I did include in the packet also um
there's new software with the finance or accounting system. So I asked them to pull um just basically the records from July 1st, 2025 through December 31st, 2025. So um it kind of gives you an a a
view of that. And right now they're saying our current balance in the revolving recreation account is $139,8891. Um so I feel like that's a very healthy balance. We're revolving account. You know, we do have expenses throughout the
year, but we're also bringing in money. Um looking at comparables from uh the fiscal year 2024 to fiscal year 2025, we have increased our revenue from programs and gym rentals. Um uh so uh in
2024 our program revenue was um just over 45,000 and for 2025 it's almost 79,000. So that's a good increase. And then our gym rentals in 20 fiscal year 2024 was
um about 13,500 and our gym rentals for 20 fiscal year 2025 or over 18,000. Um so our total revenue for fiscal year 2025 is 96,774.50.
So, I see that as a um example of how our department is growing, how more and more residents and non-residents are seeing the value in the programs we offer and signing signing up for them. Um, can I answer a question for Mr. Morton?
>> Yes. Thank you. >> Yes. Go ahead, Q. >> I think you've done a remarkable job. I remember the deal when it was set up that you would eat what you would heal as the phr saying goes and the town was not really on the hook for much of
anything. So it's even more remarkable. The only question I have nothing to do with that is there were pickle balls that are under consideration for YWA. I I'm sure you know about them, but I'm curious as any connection crossover or just two things, two people or
organizations doing similar things. >> Sure. Well, uh first of all, thank you uh Mr. Morton for your uh compliments. I really appreciate it. And um yes, so uh to right now um and I was going to get to this, but you probably already know
we are in we we finished our annex playground project, which we're very happy to do. And now we have been getting funds mostly through CPC to get started on the uh playground and actually park improvement project for
bsentennial park. So that has been a big focus right now and we're actually I'm happy to announce we are able to um start um installation of the playground aspect of that park in spring 2026. So that's a really great thing. Um and
that's a multi-phase project. So, because our department is involved in that, um, when a couple community members approached me and asked me about tennis courts and pickleball courts, um,
mostly they were disappointed that the high school decided to make the courts off limits to the general community during school hours. I understand, you know, school safety is very important. Um, but I suggested to the community
members that because we are actively getting funds and working on the park project that they could um work on getting funds for the tennis and pickle ball project and I spoke with the president of the Westport Youth Athletic
Association. I tried to connect those community members with him and then I also gave them examples of how to fill out a uh CPC form application the process of that. So I I met with them in person about that and gave them a lot
lot of information and I'm happy to see that they are moving forward with that. Obviously they're going to have to get more funding than what CPC might be able to provide. Um but the idea is that it would be for the benefit of the community and the recreation department
um is fully in support of this to create pickle ball and slashtennis courts at the fields off 177 um which are overseen currently by the Westport Youth Athletic Association. So yes, I am I've been aware of it helping them. Um just our
department isn't uh actively doing the fundraising per se. >> Thank you. I can report that because I'm a member of CPC obviously grant from CPC is sub is recommended to the town the town meeting
makes the grant but it is being looked at favorably put it that way and I do know that they are being very active and off off the mark very quickly in terms of looking to raising money for the balance. >> Yes, that's wonderful. I I really
applaud community members. You know, if they're passionate about something and they want to advocate for something like that in terms of recreation and the community, um it benefits everyone. I think that's wonderful. Um I and also I sit on the open space and recreation
plan meetings. So, uh I've been involved with that as well, just as a side note. Um and then in general um I'll just present that um we also have been getting um you know regularly uh our Helen E. Ellis Charitable Trust grants
um through the Westport Cultural Council for our summer concert series and outdoor movie nights. Um we plan to apply for that again and those are very popular. Um and then also we um on that front sheet I provide in the packet
illustrates at the bottom the different CPC funds that have been allocated to the recreation department for that um improvement of the playground and um phase which I mentioned earlier. So we're excited to move forward with that.
And um other than that um I just want to make you all aware we do have a gift donation account of just 1,300 right now. But um this past summer I did uh approach the select board and ask permission to use that those funds for possible scholarships for families in
need um who might want to enroll their children in camp but can't afford the full amount. Um so we are plan on using those funds for that this summer. And um also I learned that we have a bison tail playground trust of just $539.
I think that um the uh treasure department told me someone set that up a while many years ago and so we have that um and then a community center trust of $1,436.40 which I'm not sure who set that up um
but it's there so we can dip into that if needed also for park um or or you know community center purposes. um community center. People call the annex gym, I think in the past, the community center. Um so, uh right now I've been
struggling with some wall repairs in there and um we just had uh a painter do some wall repairs that we paid for out of our recreation revolving account. Unfortunately, it wasn't completely successful because it's starting to bow and peel again. Um he said he thinks
it's the plaster work underneath that. He's um going to I'm working with him to try and rectify it, but that might be funds that we can dip in to just continue to solve that problem. Um I'll just report too that our
expenses um >> Dana, one second. >> Yeah, sure. >> Um Gary, who's the name not available has a question for you. >> Oh, sorry. Thank you. >> Thanks, Dana. Um, you know, just to reiterate what you had said, I think, you know, going back 3 4 years, we, you
know, we were, we were very hesitant on the seed money that we had to start this program, to start the recreation department off, but I think you've done an unbelievable job. Um, in the last three, three, four years to turn this into a viable department. Uh, I just
want to make sure I know when you you mentioned um the use of uh gyms that we're we're able to tap into as much scheduling time as we can with the high school and the new high school. And I get that, you know, the schedules that need to be worked out and this and that,
but the school was was developed as a community school. And I want to make sure that we're able to to to utilize that space as much as we can for the programs that you want to maybe, you know, think about or, you know, that we don't have to go to to other locations in town. We have a great school. We have
a great gym. We have all the facilities right there. And I just want to make sure that we're utilizing every minute that we can. >> Well, thank you. Uh again, I appreciate the compliments. Uh thank you very much. Um so right now we rent out the Annex gym. Um that's the gym and space that I
oversee and and handle and our department directly gets that revenue um which helps our department function. Unfortunately, um I don't handle the old high school rentals of that gym or facility. And it's my understanding that
um whenever someone has to um rent or rent that gym, they do it through the school uh through Kimulette and that um usually they have to pay for a janitor or custodian to um be there and open it and close it um and uh and so they get
that revenue is my understanding. Our department doesn't see that. So, right now I don't I don't have anything to do with that other than um I do talk with Miss Ullette if I need to use the gym for purposes such as our upcoming Easter
extravaganza event. Um Easter happens to fall at the end of March, I believe. Uh so, you know, March, you never know what the weather's going to be like, so I decide to rent that and we are charged a fee, our department, um for use of that to pay the custodian. Um so, it's worth
it. It's a great big community event that we run. Um, but I just wanted to share that information. >> Okay. Okay. I Yeah, I just might I think the point I'm making is that uh we want to we want to be able to have the facility available for us and and I get that it's the schools and it's the town,
but um if we're looking for revenue and there are programs that we can't utilize in an annex cuz it's a smaller space or we can't go to the the high school, I think that any collaboration we can have with the schools to try to promote any other kind of, you know, recreation um program and like I said, it's one big
pot of money at the end of the day. So, you know, I think that we need to look at maybe some other alternatives at the high school cuz again, it was a community school and I think that having to charge one department over the other, you know, that that doesn't sit well with me. >> Yeah, I I I think for I agree. And for
me, it's a budgeting issue. So, if we do a program at the old high school gym and I have to pay a custodial fee, I have to incorporate that fee into the fee for the participants that sign up. and that drives the fee up, which means not as many people might sign up. So, um, if we
were to be able to be waved that fee as a town department, that would help us tremendously and we would utilize that gym a lot more. I guarantee. >> Exactly. That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here. You know, it's again, it's it's a community school. We should be able to utilize it.
I think the answer is the old high school belonging to the selectman that it is not part of the school other than they may have been given the control for various purposes. So I think the question is really with the selectman. >> Well yeah I yeah whoever it's with I
mean it's really it's a town building it you know that's how I look at it. >> Yeah I'm saying it's not a school building in which the school has uh complete control over the structure. I think town building under the control of the flag. >> Yeah.
>> Um, so Dana, before we go on and then Nancy, I know you're up. I wanted to just follow up what what Gary was asking. So I'm I'm interested in the annex, what the for the gym that you have in the annex, which is under your control,
not the old high school, which we're not talking about, >> right? Um, how how often is that rented out? So, is it rented out 20% of the time? >> It is rented out every single night of the week. Multiple renters. So, I can
have anywhere from two to three different renters renting it in one night. Um, because they might rent it say every Monday for an hour and I could have like backtoback renters. Um, and every single weekend, Saturday and Sunday, it's rented out to birthday
parties. Um, uh, and and various events and things. Most of the time, the weekends are for people who want it to use it for birthday parties. And through the week, it's mostly for sports. It's indoor soccer, football, basketball,
even indoor tennis. Um, I even had someone who wanted it just for basic baseball drills and skills. So variety of uh different sports and and activities. >> So now so you said nights and weekends. What about during the weekday?
>> So during the weekdays it's in the lease with Cotmunk Nursery School that they get to use the gym for part of that time in the morning. Um although um you know they're very agreeable and flexible if need be. Um, and then we have a play and learn parent taught group that is in
there um, a couple days out of the week that were grandfathered in when I first started. And they um, they they are all grant-f funded and um, they don't pay a fee because they were grandfathered in. And it's and we help
advertise their programs that are free to families um, as part of our offerings, too. for example, um it's on our website, the play andle learn class, but they have to email the contact through uh fall river and then they get
to be in the program if they have room and it's free to our community members. So, it it's a really nice arrangement. Um but um they don't pay a rental fee because it was just set up that way before I started.
Because I was just curious because we we all here the Council on Aging is needs space, right? So why is why can't they use the annex? And >> they can. Yeah, they can. Um I've spoken with Beverly Bish in the past. Um she
had said she was interested in setting up a exercise program at the annex. I said happy to have you guys there. And we don't charge uh inter departments. So like if the board of health needs it for a blood drive and it's free, they use it for free. Um so it would be same for the
senior center. Um but then she said, and I forget how long ago this was, but um she said that basically it wasn't going to work out because a lot of seniors just wanted to stay at the senior center that they didn't want to go to the annex. So that was just what she had mentioned to me at that time. I don't
know if things have changed. Um, but I'm always happy to talk to Bev about working with her if she has a need. >> Great. Thank you. Thank you for that. Appreciate that. Um, Nancy, go ahead. >> So, I know that I guess I hit a sore
note when I asked about fees, but let's talk about it because it's got to be the same across the board. The the high school, the old high school runs the school. They still have their extended day program over there.
>> So, we're providing, as Al said, our community, our residents, a service to our parents that have children in school that can extend the day so they can work. And the only place to put these kiddos right now is at the old high
school because our middle high school, which Gary says we should use all the time. If you actually went and talked to them and why the time is restricted, you have a 5 through 12 building on site. You're running middle school and high
school sports out of there. Girls, boys, volleyball, basketball in the winter. you're you're you know you've got you're continually revolving um with kids in that building. There's not enough gym space for the middle school and the high
school as it is even though the gym is actually cut in half. So the use of the high school gym has always been optimal. When the school administration moved out of the old high school that when the school was there, you had your
administration and your extended day. Contractually, the janitors were there to clean the building because the schools were obligated obviously because they were operating out of the building to clean the building and maintain the building, which was the deal with the town. So, we maintained on that
particular budget, we always had to deal with any of the issues with inside the walls of that building. albeit unless it was something catastrophic. >> So now that the administration has moved out, extended day is still there during
um after school hours. The whole operation of the system now should be looked at by the select board. I agree with you and Dana because there's been a change of use again on that building. So now you don't have the
administration there. Um, you definitely need to have obviously the facility cleaned after someone uses it. Um, I don't think that you, you know, I think so the janitorial use, whose budget is that going to come out of? So, the schools aren't going to have a
recreation come in, pay a rent, and then they're going to pay the janitorial people to clean up after that. So, I think that that's the conflict there. and and and potentially if the select board would be take more of an initiative with that space, that would
be a great space for recreation. I've always thought it was a great space for the Council on Aging to uh to grow some of their um possible dinner programs because of the handicap access. The full kitchen is there and it just hasn't been utilized. I know that there was there
were invitations to the Council on Aging to come over to the old building. I think Annie, you recall that period of time. There was an issue with uh some of that community that it wasn't airond conditioned uh during the summer, so they didn't want to be there during the
summer and then during the winter um there was some push back about coming over. But outside of that, um and I think Chris has his hand up and and I know that that's part of his thing on the long-term building use, but I just wanted to explain like there is extended daycare there. the janitorial service
provides that and that comes out of the school budget. Um, but when you're looking for additional then then I think that there would have to be a responsibility of yes, the town should use it for recreation. Yes, the town should absolutely rent it out and then be responsible for dealing with the
custodial aspect of it to clean it after the use. And I think if that is taken care of, then you wouldn't have the logistic problem with the school. As for moving over to the new building, that's tight. I mean, I think Dana can tell you how tight it is over there to try to get
the schedule. The problem with the tennis courts was the time of the use, the time of the use was when the schools part of their fizzed program was to go out and use those courts. So the safety
risk of having people out on the courts and then you have kids coming out to use a part of that facility to that area for fizzed you couldn't have it. You can't have people that are not qu cor qui or or and and then have the kids mixed in. So that's where the timing and and
things were alternated. But my understanding is is that whole tennis that wanted to come wasn't recreation. That was a privatelyun tennis operation. That was a revenue um making uh for for that private individual. It wasn't the
town wreck program, was it? >> It's not town wreck. It is a two private um community members, but it wasn't my understanding that they were doing it to make money. They were they're trying to fund raise um so that they can get the funds to build the facility and have it
be open to the public. Um there's been no talk of like scheduling or anything like that. It would just be open courts that the public could use. Um, one of the selectmen did ask me if we'd be open to having our department help the
Westport Youth Athletic Association with facility scheduling at that location. Um, but I mean that's just to be determined and I don't know how extensive that work would be. >> But that gym over at the old building is underutilized.
It clearly is. I just want to make sure we're we're talking about the recreation department department budget tonight. We're not talking about the old high school and the uses of >> Well, I kind of think it was kind of part of it, Karen, when you brought up the use and we talked about revenue and
having the use of these areas and I was merely trying to explain what the limitations of those uses were because I had personal knowledge. But I I'm fine with stopping that conversation. I think our the framework of I think we've
defined the the recreation has use of the annex and and for many many reasons beyond uh beyond that. Um I just don't want us to go into an old high school use discussion here uh
because that's really not the purpose of the recreation department budget right now. So um uh Christopher, you've got your hand up. Go ahead. >> Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh to your point, I won't uh won't dive into all the specifics. >> Can't hear you.
>> Is that any better at all? >> Much better. >> All right. Excellent. So, uh to your point, I won't dive into too many specifics here because I I I do recognize this is we're talking about the the recreation budget. I did want to mention that uh there is actually uh school administration personnel that is still located in the old high school as
well. Um and and I I I will say uh Dana I I agree that I think that there's there's some more that can be done as far as uh uh I guess coordinating the usage and and and you know coordinating the the rentals and everything. It is an issue where of course the custodian uh
would would come out of the the school department budget as it stands right now. I am hopeful that that will will change in the future all the way around and uh so just just wanted to kind of put a cap on that for you. And of course, we'll get into uh old high school discussions down the road here coming up uh actually in the next few
weeks. But uh but yeah, bottom line is I do agree. I think there's there there are opportunities for the recck department to utilize that space uh coming up sometime in the future, one way or the other. So I appreciate what you're doing right now in in the annex, but hopefully in the future there'll be
uh extended uh extended square footage for use. So >> thank you. Um yes, I agree. I just want to make it clear that um our department and myself are very much willing to partner work with the school, work with the council on aging um on any and all
opportunities. So >> great, thank you. That's a rabbit hole that we don't want to go down to tonight, but thank you. >> But I guess to answer your original question, the annex gym is very well used. I think it's it's um I think
people think it isn't and I don't know why. Um you know I think people sometimes come in to vote at that location and they think oh this space is only used for voting or or something like that but really every day out of the week throughout the year that space
is being used. Um, and I just want to give a shout out to our one maintenance man, um, Andy, who just helped replace, um, nets at our basketball court in the annex gym. He's been super helpful, um, for me, and, um, I just really appreciate his help. Yeah,
>> great. Thank you. Um, I had a before you go on further, I I did have a question on your revolving account and >> this is really a question and and I know Hugh or uh Chris Vitali might have some
information. Is there a limit on how big the revolving account could be? because I think sometimes it's been explained to me that it in order to collect fees, you need to have a purpose to spend them.
So, it's it's not a it's not an account that you can just grow endlessly there. There there's a purpose for it. And I don't know if I'm if that's accurate or not, but maybe you can help describe what the purpose of a revolving account
is and how how big that that can grow without a specific purpose or maybe you do have specific purposes for that balance. I I was it was explained to me that the revolving account um is set up as it is
for the recreation department because this is the one account where all of our expenses come out of. Um and and so when our revenue comes in, our expenses are going out. Um, our expenses for fiscal year 2025 averaged um, uh, just over $59,000 and
that includes uh, instructor fees, um, you know, recreation software, mileage, professional development, all that kind of stuff. Um, so it's not like we have a huge pot. It it is constantly revolving. And that's how it was explained to me
versus an expenditure account where you have a larger chunk of money that does sit there unless you need to use it for a specific purpose. >> Uh Karen, if I if I could add to that. >> Could you could you >> Yeah, if you'll remember on the um town
warrant, we have uh various um revolving accounts that have capped dollar amounts on them. So, the uh ambulance um uh the name the the the different groups escape me now that have uh a warrant article
>> uh that caps the amount that their evolving funds can go up and every few years each department that has one uh increases their limit. I had brought up the issue that recreation is not included in that cap and I believe
actually Nicole had given me an explanation that very similar to what um Dana just brought up that because of the nature of what they use it for and that it funds their budget the way it does uh unlike an enterprise fund which is
different that we use for marine services but in a revolving account like this recreation did not come under the same rules that other revolving funds do. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I don't know the the real legal ease to it, but there is an exception for the
way that their their revolving account runs. >> Great. Thank you for that. >> Um Chris, go ahead. You might be able to shed some more light for us. >> Yeah, I mean I was just going to piggy back on kind of exactly what Cindy said. So, um yeah, it's set a town meeting
through the warrant every year. So, you know, you'll notice every couple years you might see uh some of those amounts, you know, those caps adjusted, you know, based on fees or costs, you know, that the department's anticipating. Every single revolment account has a little bit of nuance to it. Um, you know, but
like Dana said, you know, obviously in this case, you know, she's using it for, you know, services, um, you know, departmental services. So, um, you know, obviously going forward if there is an adjustment that we need to make there, you know, it'll be on the town meeting
warrant and, you know, we'll put it before the voters, but >> thank you. >> But there's no, I guess there's no cap at the the state level that I'm aware of. >> Okay. >> Outside of what we set annually at town meeting. >> Great. Thank you.
>> Avoiding the more accurate jargon we're talking about. I call it jumping operating fund. income as a revenue without the expenses. And I know they're more Cindy is probably more accurate and Chris is probably more accurate, but it seems to me that's what it is. So, it's
it'll accumulate if you're making money over time and then there may be a time for an adjustment. Meanwhile, it's simply what comes in and what goes out. >> Thank you. Well, I I know there was a previous um finance committee member
that always had some challenges and maybe it was more enterprise funds than a revolving account. That may be what I'm thinking of. But kudos to you, Dana, for growing that balance as high as you have. Thank you. >> Several years. So that's, you know, I'm
not being critical of it. I think that's fantastic that you were able to provide as many services you have you had and and have maintained that. So, and if you're saying your annual expenses are were 59,000, so you've you you've got some good cushion in there, which is
really really terrific. >> Yes. And I mean that is on purpose. I want to make sure that we our department sticks around and um that we are healthy and operating at a at a good level. Um, also with this larger project of the bsentennial park, um, there's been talk
about, uh, possibly the recreation department taking on the landscaping and maintenance of that on a regular basis instead of the highway department. Um, which is still to be determined, but um, that's a perfect example of like, okay, well, you know, if we're going to take on that expense, then at least we have,
you know, some to put toward that if needed possibly. Um, so anyway, thank you very much. Yeah, thanks. Um, all right. I think you we we interrupted you with a whole series of questions when you were halfway through your budget presentation.
>> No, no, it kind of naturally evolves. So, I think that was about it. Um, uh, and um, yeah, no, that I think that was about it. I I will send it off to the next department for their pres.
>> Anyone else have any questions for Dana before we let her go? I don't think so. I think we're we're good. So, thank you once again for all you do and you have tremendously grown this department since we uh kicked it off seven or eight years ago. So,
congrats to you. >> Thank you. It's been my pleasure. >> Thanks. Thank you. >> All right. So, our next budget is the assessor's budget with Theo. And I think hopefully Theo's stuck around. Let's see.
>> I am. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for your patience. >> Thank you. Good evening. Thank you for having me at your meeting. Um I am presenting the assesses department budget. Our overall budget has an increases of 3.58%.
I'll start off with the wage um the wages the assesses and myself the principal assessment we're looking at a 3% increase. The full-time staff in our office is a 3.707%.
Longevity for the staff is 8.33% and that represents overall wages of 2.78% which is about $7,100 increase on our wage category. On the expense category, um we have postage um the same. We're
not asking for anything extra even though the poster has had an increase over the years. We're trying to keep the cost down by um instead of mailing out all the forms every year, what we're trying to do so far is mail out postcards, reminding taxpayers,
homeowners, business that forms are ready on a website to be filed when it's that right time. Um it's really it really helps out because we have a lot of forms going out every single year which is like you know income and expense statement form of lists
um chapter land applications uh statutory exemptions those will probably will still mail them out because those require a little bit more caring. Um we also uh populate in our real property and person property database with all the emails as you know as much as we
can. So in the near future we just email out um the taxpayers, the home owners, the business owners that such forms are now ready on our website and you know with information when they need to file and obviously if anybody needs or any
business or any property owner needs these forms mailed to them, we'll still do that that they request but we're trying to cut the cost. um you know included that includes a lot of paperwork, a lot of you know postage um that also includes office supplies
because now we don't have to order as many you know supplies to you know um the other thing the only other um the incre higher increase we have is on a computer software that's a few factors happen here one of them we've been
talking to the uh planning department about splitting the cost to update our maps um I I've spoke with Mike Burrs and the border has agreed to split the cost to update our maps. So, we added this year $1,700 to that line item. Um, the
other increase was we also updated our real estate um camera system. We upgraded to a cloud-based platform. That was in April of 2025. So, it was slight increase. We also had a little bit of an increase on an EM map which is our um um
which is our um hybrid resolution imagery system. Um the next line item is travel. We not asking for any increase. We do utilize the electric vehicle u most of the time to do field review and
to do property inspections. um that will save us in fuel. As long as I um you know charge the car and stay within the same location and don't put the heat on, I'm okay. It'll last me a few miles.
Um the school as far as meetings in school, we're not asking for any increase. The only other increase we have is on a dues. the Massachusetts Association and the Bristol County Association, they overall there was a 22% increases of
about $100. So overall our expense is 3,365 which represents a 9.25% with an overall department increase of 3.58% to fiscal 27.
And that wraps up our budget. >> Thank you, Theo. And you have a question. Uh Gary has a question for you. Go ahead, Gary. >> Hi, Theo. Um yeah, and also don't use the windshield wipers because now that might decrease the mileage, too.
>> So, um are we expecting the major reval? Is that going to be an FY27? >> No, that's FY 29. >> Oh, 29. Okay. So, we we're not expected to do anything until FY29. >> Well, we had a we have a >> mini val. We have we do our annually which is our
reval every year and we also have a cyclical inspection program in place. We've had that for many years now several years before I started here. So we continue doing that which is through um an article. >> Yeah. So um okay so that's good. Not
until FY29. That'll probably be an article I'm assuming somewhere down the road. Um, now as far as new growth, uh, what are they budgeting for FY27? >> I believe Jim put in 400,000, I believe.
>> Okay. So, that's that that's on on target on what, um, I guess you're seeing as far as new building permits and and and whatnot. Um, so we're capturing 400,000 new growth FY27, I >> I believe. I mean, Chris could probably confirm that. I don't know if he's
looked at the what Jim had put in, but I believe it was $400,000. >> Yes, that's right. $400,000. >> Okay. >> And is that do we see that trending? Has that trended downward over the last couple years or how has that look in comparison to other fiscal years? Like
the last three, I guess, if somebody knew that that information. >> Well, it's been Oh, I'm so sorry. Uh, you know, so it's been going down. It's been going down a bit where it's I would say it's been pretty stagnant. You know,
we did have a couple of high years and I'm just going back to 22 um where we saw a little bit more new growth, but um you know, there was a dip in FY26. So, uh I think you know Jim's approach was to be a little more conservative
this year just because he didn't know where it was going to go this year in comparison, >> you know, from what he saw in 26. >> Yeah. And we're looking at um you know maybe no commercial no new commercial growth but uh probably very very minimal
um housing development too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's the only questions I had. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, Theo. >> Thank you. >> Um any other questions for Theo?
Theo, you've got a very simple budget, so we appreciate having a simple one after the two two we just had. So, >> I try. >> Don't take offense to no questions. >> Oh, no. I don't have any I'm good with that.
>> Um, Gary, I think you got your hands still up, but I think you're all set, right? So, okay. Any other Anyone else have any questions for Theo? We can let her go. All right, Theo. I think um I think you're all set. We appreciate you coming
in tonight and thank you for your budget and your memo and everything you do for us all. >> Thank you so much. Have a good night. >> All right. Thanks. Good night. All right. So, our last budget of the night is the planning board. And I
believe Michael is here. Hi, Michael. Thank you for your patience. >> Sure thing. >> All right. So I will turn it over to you. >> Yeah. So first I'll just talk a little bit about what the planning board does because we do a lot of different things with different projects. So um the
staff, we provide technical assistance to the board when we're reviewing subdivisions, site plans, and special permits. And so this kind of ties into what you were just talking about. Um we have seen uh a bit of a decline in development uh review applications being
submitted to the planning board over the past five years. So, um, what you know was, uh, Chris was speaking about also tracks with, um, what we're seeing development wise with with the planning board. Um, and so when we do have new developments, we'll go out with our
consulting engineers and work with the fire department to monitor those developments as they get built out. Um, we've also really been trying to make an effort to get old permits closed out with the planning board. We still have things on the books from like 2010. So, we're trying to get, you know, people to
move forward on those and get them closed out. Um, and then we're responsible for long range planning projects and we we apply for grants pretty aggressively to support those. Um, those kind the kinds of projects that we work on with our grants um are
it's a little bit of everything. Last year, we received um both grants and technical assistance for about $288,000 um to draft management plans for three barrier beaches. Um plan for salt marsh
loss. We're going to be doing some traffic calming on old county road. We'll be looking at reworking the zoning in Route Six and doing some covert redesign projects. Um, so without the grants that we apply for, we probably
really wouldn't have the capacity to do all these different projects. So they're really a capacity multiplier for us um, in terms of the professional services line item budget, which is where we we get most of our or that line in our budget is where we get most of our grant
match. So in addition to all that we we end up doing a lot of project management um for projects that uh because some of these projects will go over a couple a year period. So for example last year we were implementing 10 different grants um
that had an 80 $879,000 value. Um and that was to produce things like a hazard mitigation plan, a housing production plan. We're doing some bike path planning and Barry Beach management plan. We have almost all of the town uh
development oriented departments on online permitting. We're working on completing the board of health portal. Um and we we're doing some work at Hicksbridge. If you notice, we over the summer we had installed some new floats
over at Hicksbridge. So, we're kind of busy in a lot of different different places. even though that development is down, we're staying busy with these types of projects. Um, so when it comes to my budget, this was a pretty
straightforward request. It's a I'm proposing a almost completely level operations funding. Um, on the the staff side, there's just the annual 3% increase. Um
but on the operations side I am asking for a little bit more money this year just because technology costs have gone up. Um our mapping software that we currently use which is Arc Map is being
discontinued on March 1st. Um it's not and the the program will cease to work at that time. Um and so we need to upgrade to um what's called ARGS Pro. Um which the licenses for this are
substantially more expensive. So for reference, previously an Arc Map license was $819 for two. That's total for two. And now for two licenses, it'll be $4,400. It's very substantial increase. Um, this
has been in the works since for the we've known about this for at least the last seven years, but this program has been under develop development for a while now. Um, but we've kicked the can down the road for as long as we can. Um,
and we do need to upgrade in order to have um, you know, to update parcel data annually. we can start to use extra capabilities of this program to do geoloccation of like stop signs and and
culvert or uh excuse me uh uh storm drains and things like that. So that way we know exactly where everything's located in town. Um we obviously create maps um and do spatial analysis as well for some of our long range projects. If we were to have a consultant do all of
this for us, it's would probably cost us $125 an hour to do that. So, it really makes sense to have the program um done inhouse or to to have the program um so we can do do the work in-house. I I am
trying to cut back on a little bit of the request just because I'm not asking for two full licenses. I'm asking for one full license, which is kind of like the full suite, the full package that you get with the full capability of the
program to do data editing, editing, and more advanced spatial analysis. Um, and then there's a partial one that I I'm requesting funding for. Um, that would only be the creation of of maps. Um, which and so this was recommended by
both um Jim Hartnett and and uh I spoke with Chris about it last week. Um so yeah, that that's my budget. There really aren't any other changes besides this one um request for increased
funding in our computer services line. >> Thanks, Michael. Um go ahead, Hugh. I'm just going to say I assume you talk to the IT department, make sure the upgrade is compatible with whatever else is necessary.
>> I have um forwarded that to Keith already. I know they're planning on doing or potentially planning on doing some upgrades to computers next year. So, that would be great. um because I I think it will need an an upgrade if anything to at least boost the
processing power of our computers because they if you're trying to run multiple applications at once, it can kind of lag. So yeah, I've I've um let the IT department know about that. >> Yeah, I got to say it doesn't directly apply, but I remember a year or so or two ago the French ordered new railroad
cars and found they wouldn't fit for their stations. So it is important to make compatibility work. Yes, absolutely. >> Um, so any other questions for Michael? >> Another simple budget. We appreciate, Michael.
>> You're welcome. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's pretty straightforward. Yeah. >> Well, I don't think there's any other questions for you. We we must be all questioned out from our last last couple. >> Sounds good to me. Thank you. >> Well, thank you, Michael, for coming.
Appreciate uh appreciate everything you do with the planning board. And um I don't know if we'll see you again on any planning board articles or not, but we'll see you soon, I'm sure. >> Karen, I'm sorry to jump in, but Jim had has his hand up. >> Oh, Jim, go ahead.
>> We will have planning board articles really quick. We just our our hearing is planning board hearing is on February 10th. So those are forthcoming, >> right? Thank you, >> Jim. No need for MBTA only.
>> No, hopefully hopefully this year. So, uh, I just wanted to take the opportunity to put my two cents in for something else that is not in our budget. >> But, uh,
I think the state requires towns of our size to have a tree warden. And, uh, we don't have one. And we have a lot of a lot of trees that
could possibly kill somebody. And it would be a small amount of money. I don't know whose budget it would go into, but the tree warden should be an arborist and it could be a part-time position
uh for, you know, 14 to $18,000 a year. I think the selectment doesn't it for general posts. >> I I don't know. >> We used to have one many years ago. We used to have a tree warden here and I thought it was a budget on its own.
>> We used to have a tree department >> right >> years ago. So, but it's this is a personal thing for me. A tree fell on me as I was driving down River Road, totaled my car, and if I hadn't slowed
down just a tiny bit, it might have come right through the windshield and killed me. And there were tons of other trees that are in this category, and maybe Chris can take the uh the
horns and try to figure out what to do. But it is something that I know that Chris Gonzalves thinks he's the tree warden, but we can't find anything that says that he is and he's not an arborist. So,
I just wanted to throw that out so everybody is aware. >> Jim, what do we what do we do now? I mean, if a tree goes down, do we call the highway department? Is that what the process is? >> That's what happens. Yeah. But I'm trying to be more proactive so that threes don't come down and they can be
taken care of before they kill somebody. >> So, uh I'm sure that that Chris Vitali, the new town administrator, can figure this out, but I think the the requirement from the state level is
that you have a tree warden, and we don't have one. So >> happy to look into that, Jim. >> Thanks, Jim. Appreciate that. >> And thank you for listening to our short budget. >> All right. Thank you for waiting. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Okay.
>> And and and and congratulations for being alive without the tree warden. >> Right. >> All right. Thank you both. All right. Take care. >> Okay. So, that's our budget for tonight. Uh the next item that I have on the
agenda would be uh any update to the fiscal 27 budget. Um this is a standing item on the on our agenda. Now just in case there's something that comes up this way we can talk about it. Um Chris, if there's nothing new, you can just shake your
head and say nothing new since last week. That's fine. Um >> uh nothing new although um you know the first budget uh from the state is expected to come out middle of next week. >> So uh >> yeah so I I do know in years past uh you
do get a little bit of a preview going into the uh annual MMA conference going to this weekend. Uh you know because the governor will be speaking at that event. So hope to have some news going into the weekend before next week. Um, you know,
but just like prior years, you know, we do budget conservatively. So, you know, anything that we get, you know, hopefully we'll have a little bit extra um that comes back to us that can help us with a couple of these things that we're we've been talking about over the last couple weeks. So,
>> okay, >> that's all we know. That's a suggestion of the legislature. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. Thanks. Um, so we I I put on the agenda to talk about the CA capital improvement
planning uh committee warrant because we um that got circulated to everyone. But before we go into that one, Chris, is there is there a draft warrant yet? Is there anything? >> So at this point, um it has not been put
together. However, we have been getting in um you know different requests from departments you know as well as our different boards who have expressed um interest in getting on this year's warrant. Now in terms of um you know the
first time this is going to go before the board I believe it's their first meeting in February is when uh we do have plans to discuss that. So, um, you know, prior to that, our plans to put together and then, um, that's just going to be kind of the the working draft. And
then from there, you know, you we'll work with town council as needed on a couple of the different articles. So, we might have some placeholders in there. >> Um, you know, everything that I've gotten so far has been pretty standard year to year.
>> Yeah. >> Um, >> okay. Hopey hopefully no bit and no big surprises. >> Yeah. Okay. No, that's it's always helpful to when the first draft is available so we can just get a quick gauge on how many might have financial
implications so we can think about scheduling our meetings and presentations to us if there's um you know whatever comes up. So um so so far that's good good news. So far nothing s nothing new yet. So, um, okay. Um,
so the capital improvement planning committee, I know a couple of questions were being discussed last week. Did anybody get a chance to look at the presentation and have any questions on it? >> I I had a question. >> Okay, go ahead. Um, so, uh, they did
send us the request, but we do not have, from what I could see, the backup data as far as what were the priority twos and threes, like what was the full request that was whittleled down to this
particular list. I think you had you had mentioned something about that last week, Karen, that >> you wanted to see the full list. So, we should ask the um request of CIPC that they provide us that um full list. And I also did not see a five-year plan.
>> Correct. >> Okay. So, um >> I didn't either. So, right. So, though Absolutely. So, I think the the five-year plan is important as well as the the ones that didn't the requests that didn't make the cut, right? That are of course valid requests that just
didn't make the cut. That would be helpful, right? So my question will be to Al because Chris is new so he wasn't on the committee at the time. Mhm. >> So if we look at in really looking at the five-year plan concept, so if last
year we had a five-year plan, um my sense would be as you walk into this year, you would largely know what your requests were going to be because they would have been made,
>> right, >> in a fiveyear plan last year that just now move forward. So, I'm curious if that's the case or if you really got a got a whole new series of requests that came in this year that were not or
already incorporated in your five-year plan. No, my that that it's a good question and my recollection is that um is that what we were doing was just rolling the past into the present and
then looking at at at you know at the future and having presentations from whatever department highway you know it doesn't matter police fire uh to to um to come up with a list of the one twos
and threes So, I honestly can't remember what the twos and the threes were. I know we I know we put that together, but the ones really percolated to the top as as far as, you know, necessity,
if you will, to uh uh to fund. It was trucks. I mean, >> that have been there for 25 years and were rotting on the tires, for example. I mean that that would be you know one one example of of of many and uh
>> we have a lot of that and it it's it really is truly mechanical in nature and we have pushed off a lot of this stuff you know a lot of these expenditures uh way beyond their their their um you
know useful life I guess that's the best word I can can describe it. So >> Al, if I could ask a question. Um, >> sure. >> So the items that made the approved list this year by and large were items that
were a high priority last year that did not make it. Were all of the items that are being approved on last year's list. >> Okay. >> I would say I would say that that 80 to 90% were exactly what you just said, Cindy. Okay. I mean there there and and
off the top of my head I can't remember there may have been one that percolated to the top that that was an outlier but by and large uh you know I know at one point I I spoke excuse me one second let me just shut this door
>> I know that the one that was percolating and I mentioned to the uh to the harbor master that you know good luck getting it was that they had thrown, you know, tossed out an idea of getting a um a firebomb.
Okay. And that that was brand new. I candidly my my recommendation was don't go there. >> Yeah. >> For for a variety of reasons. But the uh
one of the notions was to rehab the um uh the harbor master shack. That was about 100 grand, I think. You know, plus or minus 50 to 100, but you know, we we all know how things are
today. It's 100, you know, and and possibly a little bit more. That I I believe, and I could be wrong, but I believe that's a relatively new one. I don't believe that that was brought up
by Chris uh uh and and and Gary as as assistant harvester last year, but the rest of them were just slow incremental increases >> that was brought up a few weeks ago and then withdrawn. >> Oh, they did withdraw it the the the the
shack itself >> with a request for doing >> request. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. I I I missed that memo. you >> I think you were in London. I I probably was and probably a good thing that I was
but but uh regardless most of them have just gone through the process Cindy in answer to your question that have gone three two one and every year of course whether it's a truck or god knows what else uh has uh they they're not getting
any younger you know I mean it's >> so >> so Al have you seen are each of the departments actually prov providing you a five-year plan of their capital or because when I when I talked to um Jim
about this before the what we have what the town has is the five-year plan, right? >> Isn't necessarily a fiveyear plan. It's a plan for it's it's a plan for what we've been provided and then scheduled out over five years, which is not a
fiveyear plan. >> No, it is not. And and so I'm just curious if over the course of the years if you're getting a five-year plan from the highway department, from the fire department, from the school department, from all the departments of what they're
looking long term, what their real request needs. >> Can I Karen, that's a great question, and I'll answer it as briefly as I can. I think they try their best, but they can do a lot better. >> Y >> I don't think we get a five-year plan.
We may get a two or a three, but I I don't believe that we get a five-year um uh you know, budget request, pardon me, for for capital improvements. >> Yeah, Cameron, I think to chime in, Cameron, I know we talked about this in
the last meeting. Um but uh you know, a true capital plan not only shows what's been uh awarded, but shows what's outstanding. So, a five-year capital plan is great, but we should also see the projects that don't get funded. And that's really a true capital plan,
>> right? So those those projects would either be in year two, three, four, five or >> Yes. >> somewhere. So we should be >> All right. Point point well taken, Gary. And I'll bring that back to Dick uh who is still currently chair. Uh Chris, now you're going to be on the hot seat as
far as uh you know, sitting there and and and we'll work towards a more comprehensive plan. I I mean I do believe that we are planning as part of it but I don't believe that we're planning it to the extent that you're you're speaking about it. >> Yeah. And then just one more question for you Allison. So I'm prepping you
with questions. So >> that's right. >> So in ter and I know the other point that we've been doing is we have our capital stabilization fund that we continue to try to put dollars in it. So my question is and this all this really
all comes to a true fiveyear plan. So, as we continue to put dollars into the stabilization fund, which I'm in full support of, >> but there also needs to be well, what are we going to do with those dollars, right? Is there is there a point that we're
>> are we saving for a particular thing or, you know, are we saving for example, I'm just making this up, you know, the next fire truck which costs a million dollars. is that you know so this way an expenditure of that nature then doesn't
break the bank on capital expenses is there discussion of how the stabilization fund would be used >> not not that I uh >> not that I remember quite candidly but again another great point and and one
that I will bring to uh Dick and the CIPC committee sooner than later. >> Great. Thanks. Yes. >> Thank you so much. I didn't mean to pepper you. >> No, no, no, no, no. That's fine. I mean, >> without well without Jim being here is
the the legacy, right? So, you're you're you're it tag your >> Oh, well, remember what whatever I don't know, I'll make up, Karen. So, don't worry about it. >> Thanks. Chris, go ahead. You can chime in on any of the questions or comments that you have. No, I mean it just, you know, obviously
wasn't here um back in December when some of these discussions were had on the uh you know, the current plan for capital. But, you know, what I would say is just one of the things that, you know, my hope is to get into with the work of the CIPC is just looking at our
process for capital as a whole. You know, because there's so much more that goes into it when it comes to, you know, the methodology for scoring. Um, you know, when we look at the information that we're collecting from departments, you know, if there's a request that
rolls over to the next year, um, you know, does that change its scoring? Does that does the pricing change? Are we capturing, you know, any of those increases, you know, in our estimates here, um, you know, that we're tracking? And then to your point is, you know,
there are some things that, you know, come up and are unexpected. um you know but there are things that we know about you know and that we should be tracking to the best of our ability you know I'll say vehicles is one of them you know depending on the type of
vehicle you know what that life expectancy is you know when you're putting it into service or you have an idea of if it's I'm just making up if it's five years 100,000 miles right that's or you know maybe it's one of our
larger trucks and it has a lifespan of 20 years. Well, we know that and we also know what the lead time looks like. So, I think to your point about the stabilization fund, you know, that's not the only source for capital. You know,
we also have um um chapter 90 funds, we have other state grants. So, you know, as we start looking at, I guess some of the requests that come in long term, you know, one of the things that would be my goals is sit with the
departments and say, okay, when does it make sense to start chasing the dollars, right, so that it aligns with, you know, our funding schedule locally. So, I think there's definitely um work to be done. I think you know to the points
that mentioned I think departments are um you know there's a system in place where they're submitting those requests so they can be considered but um always more work to be done and >> um definitely looking to get further into those conversations in this
upcoming fiscal year because >> I appreciate that. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just and l one I did have one more question for you. >> Yeah. Here I am. So last year in for last year's capital improvement there there was a particular and I don't remember the detail there
was something that the highway department needed some some equipment that they were saying they urgently needed but they just didn't make the cut last year and the same thing is now. So there is this the same piece of
equipment that they requested last year. I will have to get back to you on that, Karen. And I will I do not I don't remember details and I don't want to speak out of school. >> Okay. >> Uh Karen, they they've been asking for this uh truck which is under the gross
value weight where they're allowed to >> hire somebody without, you know, the necessary licenses so that they're able to put a plow on that and utilize it. Uh I would only suggest that because I'm the liaison to the to the highway department that you you know and it's an
open invitation from the highway uh surveyor Chris to go out there and look at the equipment that they have. I mean some of this stuff is circa 1950 and they do their own they do their own repairs. They they do as much as they can but at a certain point in time these this equipment breaks down and it's no
longer usable. It's no long we can't get pots. We can't we can't get anything. Right. So, you know, a small contribution. I think the truck was $65,000 or $70,000. I can't remember off the top of my head, but that was put in for the capital request this year, which, you know, I get it. You know, it
wasn't it wasn't um it wasn't approved, but I think at some point in time, we really have to start looking at, you know, we have a we have the police on a on a replacement for their cruisers. Um remember, this equipment is going out in the most severe weather. um it breaks down on these guys uh that are out
there. So my recommendation and I'll make this once we hear the the department mental budget next week is that we do fund that piece of equipment for the highway department. Um you know again I just encourage people to go down there and see what they do and see the equipment that they're using and it's
it's just incredible. Gary, I'm I'm just I'm just gonna I'm just gonna tip my hat to you because you're absolutely right. And I would add into this uh the cemetery department is another example of stuff that is I mean one of these days you're just going to see a a
chassis on the ground on one of these these vehicles where >> we've seen it and we've seen it. I'll run it down. >> Crazy. >> It is crazy. And this is purely my opinion. Purely my opinion. I think it's
crazy that we are asking our highway department, fire department, police department to patch these things together with with, you know, bubble gum and rubber bands when we need to replace this stuff.
260 260 miles of road, 68 square miles. >> This isn't a small town. I mean, the these guys can be up near Fall River and down at the harbor. >> And and I know that we just, you know, kicking the can down the road on equipment that is vital
>> to to the services that residents require day in and day out is is important. I think that's important. And and if we have money left over in free cash, we can chip away at some of these things. And I get think it gets back to what Karen's saying. What are we not funding, >> right?
>> You know, what do we what don't the what doesn't the public see that keeps on? Okay, it's a third year. Now it's a fourth year. So, you know, at some point in time, we've got to address this stuff. >> All right. Well, I'm going to get on to Dick Brewer tomorrow and have a have a
cup of coffee with him and we'll sit down and we'll get this information uh out before the next meeting. So if there's time uh to discuss it um that we will Karen. >> Yeah. No, that'd be great. And that's
you know the the the same question on the capital stabilization. So again, >> okay, >> the plan, right, the plan is to put money into the capital stabilization, but if there's an absolute current need today for some piece of equipment, >> it doesn't seem to make sense to me to
put it into the capital stabilization without a specific purpose that you're saving for when you can use it today to buy an essential piece of equipment. That's that's I'm just trying to, >> you know, round it all together. >> Do we know what the balance is in that account, Cameron? I don't know if you I
don't know if anybody knows. >> No, I don't. >> All we want to say is this is not exactly a new discussion. >> No, I'm sure. >> No, it's probably 19 years ago. >> As I recall, we borrow a million dollars
on out of the operating budget and replace the Friday things. I remember Al's comments when 40 I don't know 20 year old 40 or 50 year old trucks that were breaking down all the time you turned around. It's all the things that are in Singapore legitimate. Why haven't
we replaced various things? We didn't have the money. It wasn't a matter of lack of desire to do it. It was inability to do it. So let's not beat the bid horse. Do the best we can. So, so I guess I'll I'll ask Al one last
question. Um, so I seem to I don't have the list here in front of me. I was just trying to pull it up and for some reason I in my my computer is locked. But there is no highway department um allocation
on this year's um CIPC list. Is that correct? >> No, I I don't think it's totally correct. And and again, >> they're getting a generator. They're getting it. Yeah, they're getting a Yeah. a generator. And but as far as the the the the trucks that are needed, I
don't believe that is part of the uh of this year's um take on it. >> Okay. But there is a new pickup truck for the school department. >> Yes.
Yes. And there was some jig there's some questions and jiggling around about one department had a a a better truck or a better pickup truck and could we shift it over to another department or whatever. I personally feel that this
whole and of course the taxpayers are going to feel differently. Uh we've already seen that with the uh uh the override question. I just feel this is nuts. There are serious needs in for capital
improvement in a variety of town things. I'm not talking about a printer. I'm not talking about being on the cloud. I'm not talking about it. I'm talking about to Gary's point earlier. What if you're down in February at the end of Westport
Harbor and the damn truck breaks down? What if you have a uh a a fire truck that breaks down when it's going to a fire? I mean, this is this is all critical stuff and we're messing around
with with with in in the scheme of things, crazy short money. We got a $54 million. >> You're not telling anybody anything we don't know. >> I know. Oh, you >> the reason it hasn't been done is like a
fund. If you got a if you got a money tree in your backyard you haven't told us about, then maybe you can contribute it. But otherwise, we're here because we're here. >> Well, it you know, it it it is nothing new. But when we don't show in the memo
what list of requests were not approved, we're we're not giving the general public that knowledge for the >> notion to list and showing what is so forth and so on. I'm just talking about our talks about going on forever about
the things we can't do. That's all. >> No, you're you're not you're not wrong, Hugh. I I I get it. But it just frustrates the heck out of me. >> I know it's frustrating, but as a matter of fact, you're dealing with reality when you have to deal with reality. >> Maybe maybe I'll live in my bunker up in
the woods and not deal with reality. >> All right. Anything else on the capital improvement? I think we peppered Al quite enough. Right. >> No, you you handled that so well. >> You've done well. Yeah.
We gave him the all seasoning >> salt pepper the whole thing. >> He did great. Um All right. Um I just lost my agenda. So one second. >> Okay. Um so enough of Warren articles.
So the next item is committee or leasison updates. Does anyone have anything they wanted to share? >> No. >> No. really. >> Okay. >> And the next item would be the minutes,
but I would like to pass over those because I again these weeks go by way too fast and I have no opportunity >> to have um updated the minutes to kind of soften them a little bit. So, >> football games interfere. We got to get anything done. >> What's that?
>> I said football games interfere with getting anything done. Actually, my work, my regular work interferes. That's the problem. Um, all right. So, we'll skip over the minutes and we'll try to I'll try to make a commitment that we can handle all of them next
week. Um, >> I'll remind you. >> Thank you. Uh, correspondence. I have no correspondence. Um, so the next budget meetings are January 27th, which is next Monday,
>> and that's the beach. >> Monday. Monday or Tuesday? I'm sorry. >> Tuesday. Did I do I have a wrong date? >> Yeah, you said Monday. >> Oh, sorry. Tuesday the >> 27th. And that is the Beach Highway and Town Accountant.
And then the following week on February 3rd is the Westport Community Schools. and we will do that um at at the at town hall. So we'll try to do that as a hybrid but um the recommendation is you know all committee members where
possible to in person and hybrid would be if if you can't make it um then that that's an option or for the general public too but try to come in >> and also I wanted to let Gary know that the uh diamond is coming in February
24th. North. >> Well, that'll be fun. >> Yeah. So, they uh they've invited their um director of finance and the superintendent to uh attend as well. >> Is that a formality, Cindy?
>> I mean, do do we really have do we really have a uh uh any say in the outcome? No, but it' be it would be nice to know their process and it would be nice to know that you know they have questions to answer and uh particularly
since the you know their school school opening will be I would think in the next school year. Um I would think their operating costs are going to go up um a smidge um and you know what can we expect for higher assessments going
forward? I mean I you know I think the they're valid questions that we should be informed at least knowing what we can expect going forward. It is a formality. Um but at least we would have the information. >> Yeah, it would be good info. I just uh I
just didn't know to what extent. I mean we're just kind of sitting there listening as opposed to >> Right. Right. >> Okay. All right. Fine. I don't want to bog a meeting down. I just was asking. Okay.
Um, all right. So, I have nothing else um that came up within 48 hours. Does anyone have anything else to add to next week's agenda other than our budgets and our standing? Okay. If you do, let me know because I'll probably turn this agenda around tomorrow to get it posted.
So, since >> I would like I would like to make a motion that we adjourn. >> Second. >> All right. >> Awesome. Okay, we get a lot of >> All right. So, I'm gonna do a roll call. So, Cindy >> Cindy Brown, I
>> Duncan >> Duncan L. I >> Zack >> Zach Lew. >> Ali, >> Hugh >> Hugh Morton. I >> Gary. >> Yes. >> Christopher. >> Christopher Thrasher. I
>> We heard you just barely, but we heard you. Yes. Okay. Nancy. >> Nancy Stan. Cross. Eye. >> Uh Karen Rouse. I All right. Thank you everyone. I'll see you in a week.