Okay, it's um 6 pm. This meeting of the Westport Historical Commission is called to order. Voting members present, Katrina Strozik, um Mark Thompson, and welcome. >> Welcome to Mark. Uh first with the commission, and we're very much looking
forward to having you on the commission. >> Um Ward Mooney, >> Ward Mooney, >> Garrett Stuck, William Kendall, and Caroline Wolter. And uh we are missing tonight Deborah Chili
and uh Timothy Garant. Okay. Um first item is the minutes of the meeting of October 6th, 2025. And uh Katrina prepared the first draft. I I made comments and and uh circulated them. Well, I made changes and
circulated them. Um any comments on the minutes? Any changes? Do I hear a motion? >> I move that we accept and this is revised. >> Second. >> Okay. Second. Okay. All in favor? >> I
>> I. All opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Okay. Okay. Um, next item is treasures report. There is no treasures report this month. Um I haven't been able to get uh a
response from the town accountant uh recently. So um I keep trying. Okay. Next item. Applications for certificate of appropriateness. 1878F Drift Road. Martha Slate solar panels on
roof. Uh and this um is a is an application that had a preliminary hearing. >> Yes. >> Last month I think. >> Yeah. got some extra coffee. >> Sorry. >> Thanks, Martha. >> Uh, and basically nothing really has
changed since Sorry. Since last time we um I applied I brought a picture of where the solar roofs were. The solar was going to be on the roof. The difference in the picture of the roof is that it will be all
black. Um, and there was a question of where my property was and people were um um advised to go and look at uh where that break was. I think it's around 1954
um main road. By the way, Martha, um, we have two checks from you. One from Isaac. Isaac. Okay. Which one would you like better? >> Uh, I'll take the one from me.
>> I didn't realize I didn't have to. Whatever. >> Just trying to follow procedure. Is there any questions or >> questions from the commission? >> Concerns. >> Um, so you're saying that um the So the panels are black. You're going to
re-roof so the roof will also be black. >> No. >> No. >> I was not hoping not to have to do that. >> Okay. I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said the only change is it's black. So what's >> So if you look at the roof here. >> Yeah. >> There. This has a little white outline
and that's really the just their design on how to >> Oh, I understand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So they will look like this. >> Got it. Got it. >> Okay. So they'll look like this. the when they did the schematic, they just
had those white things there so that you know it's a plug. >> So I guess I I struggle with this one a little bit because it is visible and it's not on a smaller structure and so >> there is no smaller structure, >> right?
>> I know I understand. >> Yeah. Um but I think we everything that we have approved so far in the district if it's visible the panels are on a smaller structure. So this
>> if you look at Betty and David's house >> actually on their house in the smaller structure. >> So the one that I'm familiar with that it's on the telescoped edition on the back of the the back of the main home.
>> Yes. But yeah, and if you look at there's another house on Winward Way where it's very visible. Um, and it is not black rope, >> the Caldi house. >> Yeah.
>> Yep. But it's visible from >> Winward Way, >> which is a private road. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I think it's also visible from the river. >> Yeah. >> Barely. I've I've seen it cuz that was one of the considerations. It's
>> and mine's fairly I mean there isn't a lot. You have to really slow down to see mine. >> No, I I I agree. I do understand. I guess I'm just kind of putting it out there as this isn't quite 100% clean. Um if we
approve it, we're approving >> something that you can see from Main Road that is not on a smaller structure. So it all of the >> I don't have a small instruction. >> No, I completely understand that, Martha. >> I just I know the only point I'm making
is that this is different from everything we have approved to date. That's all I'm saying. >> And so we just have to decide, are we still okay with it? Right? And we might be. It might be it's a sliver, right? Um
your house is really far back from the road. Um, and so maybe it's okay, but I'm just, you know, offering up the facts of the situation, um, based on what's being presented.
>> And I see it as, you know, I don't have another op option to me. Excuse me, Betty. That is her house. You know, it is attached to her house and that's right on main road and it is
not a black roof. Yeah. My concern isn't that it's not a black roof. >> I thought you just said it was. >> Well, I think that's one concern. My concern is that it is on your main structure.
>> One more time. >> I understand that. So, your other option is not to install them at all. >> It is >> right. So, I'm not I like I'm really trying not to be a you know offensive or I'm just stating the facts.
All of our other approvals have been if it is visible, it's on a smaller part of the home >> if you commerce right on their house. >> Yeah. I I think um >> Okay. >> Right. I I mean I I appreciate your your
your point and but I think that the um I mean what we've been trying to achieve especially on main road is is is to sort of preserve that view up and down main road that you shouldn't see a lot of solar panels when when you look up and
down the road and and and and that's why you know we've we've been pretty firm about don't put them on the front >> main house. Yep. >> Um, you know, put them on the on the outuildings, put them, you know, on the on the on the second L. >> Yep. >> Um, I don't think what Martha is
proposing is any more visible. I mean, it's less visible, I think, than what's what we've already approve approved on on some of those, you know, secondary parts of of other houses. >> I agree. >> So, I think um I mean I agree. We we have said one thing that we have said is
don't put them on the main. >> Correct. Um, but that was mostly guided by the fact that the main roofs are are what are visible >> more visible on Main Road. Yeah. And that truly is the only point I'm trying to make here. Your home isn't even on
Main Road. You just happen to be able to see it from a piece, right? >> Um, I just Right. It's just part of it's just And yet we don't set precedent, right? We we take every example on its
own. Um, but you asked if there was any discussion, >> right? It's the elephant in the room, right? >> Katrina, here's a good point. Um, the one thing about it is that visually
you're going to see this black solar panels on that roof with a light roof around it. And it's true. It's on a big roof. It's far in the distance, but still from main road, you're going to see that and it'll
look just like solar panels. If the roof was black, it would not show up. That would be my recommendation. >> Could I ask a different question? How old is your roof? >> Uh 20 years old.
>> You're getting very close to the time that it would be economic to do that. And then the solar. >> Yeah. >> Are we opening up the comments for public? >> Okay. >> Open a public hearing. >> Um Betty, please. >> Um
it used to be that um if you got the uh subsidy for the uh panels, you could also include the roof. You would get a subsidy for the roof also. if you needed to change it. I don't know if you've looked into that.
>> I haven't. >> It was 15 years ago. I think the point I was trying to make is is uh putting a brand new U solar panel on a roof
that is going to expire long before the roof does. I think that if you presented a black roof because that was going to endure about this >> if that is the change and I can get it approved. Is that is that what I'm
hearing is I need to do a new black roof to get it approved. >> Well, I mean it would certainly make it much less visible and uh I mean we do have a concern about that because you have a fairly light roof. Um, and another concern that I have is is
the view of your roof is essentially at at at eye level from the road. >> So, it's not something that's above and disappears when you look and and that's it's there two driveways where you can see the roof, I think.
>> And it's kind of a nice vista and you don't have very many B vistas like that point. Um, I think that's true. In fact, this through the window in there comments, thoughts. Um, so,
so the roof is 20 years old. Um, is there a timing issue with this? I'd like to get it done because obviously the solar um incentives roll out this year. >> Mhm. >> So, I mean, I can get the roof done very
quickly >> and I've looked at it. I didn't really want to have to do it, but if I have to do if I do the black roof and you guys say, "Okay, that'll make us approve it," then I will do that. >> Yeah. And and then you have a new roof
that you don't have to What? How do how do they re- roof if there are solar panels? They just remove all the panels. >> They just re- roof. >> Oh, >> and then you have to put the solar panels on. >> Yeah. >> So, I would I would do the re- roof >> first >> really quickly and and I've already
worked with somebody to see if I could do that and they said they could get it in very quickly. >> Mhm. >> And then I would do the um solar. H. >> Well, it seems like that would be a I think that's a good solution.
>> I would like to make a motion to approve with the condition that the roof be black. We roofed in black. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second. Before we go too far, I I should say I I opened a public hearing and and
I should ask uh if there are any other comments from from the public. Okay, public hearing is closed. We have a motion from Bill to >> approve the um uh the certificate under the condition that the roof be
reshingled with black shingles. >> And we have a second. Did we have a second? >> Yeah. from Ward. Okay. Uh any further discussion? Okay. Let's have a call by vote. Katrina. >> Katrina Strozek. Nay.
>> Or Booney. I >> Mark I. >> So state your name and then >> Mark Thompson. I >> William Kendall. I >> Caroline Boulder. I >> Jared Stuck. I passes.
Uh Martha, before you leave, >> um there's some paperwork to do and our secretary is not here, so bear with me. Um we also need to appoint monitors.
Who'd like to be a monitor? >> I can be a monitor. Be a monitor. We'll order monitors. Okay. And then um I need to make a note here that um roof to be reshingled.
Watch angles prior to installation. So, I guess if I could just the sign here. >> Sure. >> Okay, you're all set. So, um, so let us, uh, so, so you need to let, let the monitors know.
>> Yeah, you can let Katrina know >> or you can let me know and I'll pass it on. Yeah. So, so before you start the solar panels. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. [Applause] >> Okay. Next item
is uh 2038 uh 40 main road demolition of two sheds in rebuilding one. Who's here to present? Tip is here. Okay. Presented by Kitwise.
I have handouts for everybody. >> Thank you, Kit. [Applause] This project is actually small enough that we can put our drawings It's visible.
[Applause] [Applause] So you have in your handouts, you have I'm I'm Christopher Kitwise, architect for David and Lawrence Jonas. Um uh you
have handouts, you have photographs. These are two very dilapidated existing sheds right on the south property line of the uh of 2040 and 2038. They actually overlap the property line in between the two properties. They're both
under the same ownership. Um so we have these are the existing sheds. Um one's right up against the other one. We want to demolish the smaller shed and just get rid of it. And we want to demolish the existing big
shed and then reproduce it. and uh also change its orientation. Presently it's long axis goes north and south. We want to turn it sideways so that it goes east and west on its long
axis. Um and uh this this is the proposal for the restored large shed which would have a window on the north side which faces out toward the property. It would be blank on the side
facing the neighbors to the south. It would have doors on the east end for bringing kayaks in and out. And it would be blank on the u on the west side which faces up to the street. Um since I prepared these drawings, the owners came
to me and said, "Gee, couldn't we have an extra 2 ft for the long kayaks?" So this is a this is a proposal here to turn this 16 foot long shed into an 18 foot long shed. Um and
that's my presentation >> question. I assume the little shed is on the east side, the water side. >> No, it's on the west side. >> Oh, it's on the west side. Yeah. Oh, well I'm glad I have. And you you can't you can't see either one of them because there's so much growth.
>> I know the house well. And I actually didn't know there were sheds there. So I attest to your statement. >> Neither one of them is particularly precious or historic. >> Well, or visible >> or or visible or usable. >> Well, why were they built?
>> I I don't really know. So, the new shed is going to be bigger than the shed that exists. >> Yes, that's that's the request. The original application was for just reproducing it at the exact size, which is 10 ft x 16 ft. This alternate
proposal that I'm bringing tonight brings it up to 10 ft by 18t, >> but it's 10 ft wide then. >> Yes. >> So, it has a long narrow proportion. >> Yes. and and that long proportion runs parallel to the east west property line
on the south side of the property and it'll it'll take up less space than the existing two cottages two sheds do or equivalent to that anyway. >> Will the new shed
be on the same um will it be any further to the north or will be on the same level? >> It'll be on the same level. It'll be >> I don't know how to express that. It'll be on the same line >> package I submitted on the scale. It's
very hard to see on the handout, but if you have a full scale site plan, which I failed to bring with me, um you can see that that uh >> is it this right here, Kit? >> Is it that? >> Yeah, it's that. And and unfortunately
the outline of these. This is the outline very faintly of the little shed. Presume it's here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> One or the other >> one's just below it there. >> Yeah. >> Do you do you have
>> see this one? >> So on the on the third page and then this is the do you have do you have the uh full scale going? >> I probably do. >> Yeah.
Yes. >> So the shed is between the main house and the barn, right? >> Yes. >> But it kind of overlaps both like at a property line. >> So is it is it 10 ft? Is it a 10ft
setback? >> No, right on the property. >> So will we relocate it so it's a 10ft setback? It >> be right on the property. >> Okay. Is that okay? That'll be up to the building department. >> Yeah, it's not our issue. But do do you need a variance for that or
>> uh it's probably going to be seen as grandfathered >> except we're knocking everything down. So will it be? >> I mean it's replacing new for old. So I don't know if that's anything to be grandfathered if it becomes an issue we'll have to ask for variance.
>> Yeah. >> Um but I I doubt that it will be. If it becomes an issue and we need a variance or they won't give a variance, we have to put it somewhere else. We'll have to come back >> for for revision. But you you can see where
>> down here you can see so you can see the outline of the this is the big shed. It'll get turned around like this. And this is the small shed. >> Okay. So it's taking up essentially the same even if we extend this to 18 ft it'll be essentially occupying the same
same area as the two existing sheds. >> Yeah. So it's going to be a bigger profile to both neighbors. >> Uh yes. >> What is the uh reason for doing that 90° shift? >> Uh most mostly just for the convenience
of bringing kayaks up from the from the there's a sort of little boat ramp here. You can bring kayaks right up into it. What is the wall that is a kayak? >> What is the wall height? >> Oh, it's just barely 7 ft. >> Just enough to get a door into it.
You see this is the outline of the existing small shed that get to down. This is the outline of the bigger shed. Get rotated. No. >> Yeah. I mean, in principle, it will open up the the view a little bit more, too.
>> Yes, it will. It will open up. Yes. >> And the materials doesn't show the materials. >> I think uh the plan does. Yes. We'll redo it in board and bat and cedar just like what just as it is. >> Oh, okay. >> And let it weather.
>> Yeah. that are on right now. Yeah, I' draw this with one board. So, they're probably 12 in it'll effectively look very similar. So, it ends up looking very shedlike.
>> Yes. >> Okay. And uh what was the thinking about those two blank faces of the building? Think about >> uh well we
we've actually talked about um if we can find a salvage salvageable window or something around we might stick one in on either of those sides >> for which we come back for a monitor review. >> Mhm.
So that's what you would like to do. It sounds like >> if if we could if we can find a convenient window >> any thoughts about that windows on those two faces? >> Well, we see a window here
>> in the in the old shed >> and the idea would be to have a window there. Yes. >> On the west side. on the west on this west ele this is this the elevation west elevation basis we could put a window in there if you
think it would would help >> in the the the batten as opposed to a shingle so I know half the shed is shingled half the shed is the the boards >> I think it would all be board and baton >> it would all be board and batten >> yeah
I have a question um the window looks oversized for the shed Do you >> It's actually It's actually That window is a brand new window. It was a mistake from the main house um that we had sitting around and it turns out to be exactly the same size as an
existing window on the on the existing old shed. >> It's idiosyncratic. >> That window is in very bad shape. It's not reusable. >> So, this one turns out to be virtually the same size. It looks as though it adds character,
but implausible character. And I I think if you took the window back to the proper scale for the building, it might do the whole thing. Well, I'm I'm reproducing what's there, >> which was there because of a a bin plant
on it, a larger window >> because you it's it's there because the window you said, if I understood you correctly, was uh just brought in and planted there. It wasn't necessarily the original window.
>> That that window on the old building, I have no idea whether it's original or not. I think what he said, if I can just step in, that window is an existing window. That's the size of the existing window on the existing shed. They happen to have one left over from their other
project that matches the same size. So, they were just going to take out the old one and put in the new one. Kind of that's what he said. >> Yes. >> Thank you. You're >> welcome. But to be clear, you were if you found one, you might put one in that was more
to scale in that. >> I I think I think if we found if I found a window, um I I put in a little square window in that end of it. >> I have to I have to compliment you. The the shed that we had on our property uh
had exactly that. Just a little Yeah. >> piece and uh we preserved that. Let's uh let's open a public hearing. So, public hearing is now open. Uh any comments from the public? I'm Jeff Wade
from uh uh 234 Main Road and I'm actually the the direct neighbor of this. Um I have no problem with what they're looking to do. I think it would be fine. Uh, as far as the windows go, um, since you talked about putting one
on the other side, possibly that bigger one might work better on the other side because it's a gable, so you have more room. And then and then get a new one that's smaller on the side if you want. That'd be a suggestion only because you guys are talking about that. So,
>> might be easier for hanging kayaks, too. ready. >> Sorry. Oh. Oh, can you come to the lecture, please? >> I just got the big high sign. We didn't hear Jeff. Is the shed on 2038
only or in 2040 only? >> Uh the the existing >> No, the new shell. The new shed is on both properties. It overlaps this property. >> Is that a good idea? What if you want to sell? Can you do that?
>> They're two separate lots. >> I mean, I think that's >> I don't know. That's what you worried me when I heard you. >> Well, you better check it out. Good point. >> That's a that's a zoning property matter. It's not really >> Yeah, but it's I'm a neighbor across the
street, so I just could you check that out because are you supposed to be opening two properties just because the person owns it? Maybe you can. One person owns it. But if you want to sell, then what do you do?
>> Well, you move move the shed. We're going to make it movable. So, >> well, I'll check on that. And you mentioned something about barriers. What was that for? >> Oh, it's going to be right on the property line. Yeah, I think you need a 10 foot I think you need a 10 foot se.
>> Yeah, but that's but that's not our >> No, but it's something to come back. But I tell you what, when we get closer to building it, if you would approve it, hopefully with the 18 foot length rather than the 16 foot length, if you would
approve it as presented here, um when we get around to being ready to build it, we will have figured out the window situation and we can come back to the monitors um and and perhaps follow the suggestion of putting a big window on
this end and a small window there. Well, I don't know if we can approve something with that um contingency. >> I mean, if we approve it, we just approve it as it is and then it would be nice if you come back and talk about windows.
>> That's what I'm proposing. >> I mean, it's not something formal. We're not saying you have to come back and talk to us about windows. We we might if you approve this, we might just vote it like that and and leave it at that.
>> Well, that's what I mean. Yeah. So, so um if you're going to settle windows, you should settle it now. >> Yeah. No, we have to approve something specific. Um and uh it sounds like this this is what you would like us to approve. >> That is what we like like you
>> to approve at the 18T length. Um, how do people feel about the length 18 foot versus 16 foot? Is that what you said? >> I think um adding it is not a real matter. I think um it's a 10-ft wide
structure which is is small proportion and as Kit said the um the wall height is is uh 70 ft and so you're really having this shed that has the proportions of a shed. uh what we would be what would be a problem with us is if
the wall height was made higher and and it became a bigger bigger structure. So I think it's going to look like the sheds that you've taken down. It it will sit a little higher off the ground right now. Right now the the the the
boards are literally half underground. So we will have to have to lift it up a little bit just just to get the wood away from the ground >> and and the lot drops off. >> The lot the lot drops off. >> So it will be at the at the grade of the up hillside.
>> You can see the lot is dropping off here. >> So a little bit >> in this property a little bit has had different interpretations. So what what is a little bit? So yeah, how for
example, how much higher is the ridge line? >> Uh I would say the ridge line is is a foot higher a foot higher at the at the low end and maybe six inches higher at that end.
>> Would you um if it's exposed masonry, would you be willing to um have that in stone rather than concrete? Uh, I I think in fact when we get around to building it, we'll probably build it on peers and then just like you build a deck,
we'll build it on peers and then a 2x6 floor on top of the peers. >> So that would raise it further? No, because at present at present the bottom of at present
there's probably a 2x6 floor on the bottom and and the um so the floor is at this level at the bottom of the of the existing door and that remains pretty much the same.
So here's here's at the at the low end. Here's the one foot that would get raised >> and that would be open space underneath. >> Probably open space under >> there be two peers here and just a floor standing across behind behind that wood
ramp. >> Is that wood ramp? >> Yeah. Cool. Will you be making those changes u so that can they can be approved as such? >> You're you're kind of adding and and adding anything.
>> Well, you are you are raising the the whole piece and you are uh creating something that doesn't >> that's what's presented on the drawing. >> I don't see the space underneath it. >> Well, this is the space underneath here.
Do do you have the peers in this? >> I do not have the peers. >> Okay. I I don't see >> I originally I originally envisioned this as um as somebody here [Music]
and Okay. And then this would be open space and the same on the on the south elevation. >> And the same on the south. So appear on this one and hope this is what you can prove. Here
appear here. [Applause] [Applause] >> And just to be precise, those would be granite. >> Oh, I think it' be concrete. >> Concrete. He's sticking about the ground
that much. >> I mean, for for me, I think the the biggest change here is the fact that we're turning the building. Um >> I think it lowers the profile in terms of well
>> as we talk about preserving vistas >> it shrinks the profile as you look this way but for the neighbors it increases the profile but the neighbors don't have a concern. So, um, and I think that, you know, if it's the
building department's purview to say where exactly it's cited on the property, to Betty's point, I think it's an excellent point. I think that being on the property line and not having that 10- foot um I think it's a 10 I think it's a 10
foot um uh setback. >> Setback. Thank you. That's the word. By by the building code, >> you would have to have a 10 foot setback. >> Yeah. So, >> it's actually unusual in this town and many towns allow small sheds to be much closer to the property line. >> Yeah. So, it'll be setbacks allow. >> It'll be their their decision on if it
can be in that particular location. But, >> I agree with Katrina that um that I think um it's acceptable. I think he's has designed a nice little shed. >> Yeah. >> And I would vote for that shed.
Nice if they had another window. >> Yeah. But it is pretty nice and it's great in terms of re reusing a lovely window that they had in the main house with that wavy glass and now it's going to be on. >> It's not This is not a wavy glass window.
>> Oh, it's not a wavy glass one. >> No, no, it's a brand new window. It's a brand new >> window. Oh, all right. Dag nab it. It it's it's actually much too highend for this little shed. But >> yeah, >> but it's reused. Yeah. >> I don't know. >> Are there other comments from the public?
>> Okay. Hearing none, I'll close the public hearing. Further comments, discussion from the commission. >> I do think changing the the the u >> the orientation. >> Yeah, orientation is excellent. >> I do too. Thank you. I approve.
>> I'll make a motion to approve. >> I second. >> Let's just be clear what we're approving. So, we're approving You're making a motion to approve the 18T length. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Good. >> Um and there's a second by Caroline.
Okay. Any further discussion? Uh let's take a roll call vote. >> All right. Katrina Strozic I >> Cartock I William Kendall I >> certificate passes I'll give you this one for the recorders
locked up um monitors >> should they be the same as the ones monitoring the home make it easy >> yes and uh that's the two of us I [Music]
Yeah. [Applause] Is there a church project up next? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, you can go ahead and prepare. Uh paperwork to do here. Um okay. So, I want to make a note here
that um the 18T length is approved. It's on this plan. So sign this plan. >> Yeah. So [Applause]
[Applause] Come on. [Applause] [Applause] Okay. Okay. So, we've approved the 18T line
and there will be six concrete here. [Applause] Okay. [Applause]
Goodness. [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] Okay. So the next item on the agenda is
um the review of proposed changes to the design for Howland Hall and uh we did approve the certificate of appropriateness for Howland Hall. So
this is a request for certain changes by wise [Applause] Okay. Um, I have notes. [Music]
Thank you. Okay. Our original vision for Howland Hall was a complete redoing of the whole space uh which would have involved I'm sorry I want to change this
really [Applause] bear with me please. [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] Thank you. [Applause] [Applause]
Okay. Uh, this is the plan which you all approved and it involved a complete redo of the interior house hall and we're going to move the kitchen from the east end of the hall to the west end of the hall. put in new toilet rooms. We were
going to blast out the existing concrete stairs and rebuild the stairs and make this ram connection from the main level of Howland Hall down to the main uh the main level of the church down to the main level of Howland Hall. And then we had this entry here which had stairs
going up and a lift to get from the ground level up half a level to Howland Hall and down half a level to the Sunday school rooms in the basement. Uh we were going to get rid of this concrete stair and replace all the windows and reside
all the Howen Hall. Um at present we have funding which will accomplish only some of this and included in that is going to be residing all of Howland Hall and replacing all the windows in Howland Hall with a couple of exceptions that
I'll explain to you. Um we will be building this ramp. We will not blast out the stair. We're going to leave the existing stair and rearrange the circulation somewhat. And I think most importantly from the commission point of view is that we need to enlarge this
little entry area by a small amount. Uh once I got into the weeds and really worked out clearances for handicap accessibility to doors and the required distance between the swings of doors, um I ended up having to make this little
bump out a little bit bigger. Um, it's presently I think uh 11 by 11 and in the new version it's goes out to 14 ft almost 15 ft off the building and
um and out to uh about 12 1/2 ft wide. What have I got? Yeah. 12 12 12t 3 wide by 14 foot long as opposed to um and the the consequence is if you
compare this these drawings have the proposed here and and the what you approved previously. So you can see that this is a little bit wider than this was. Um, we've added a
little decorative feature similar to what's on the church to it. Um, I've also managed to integrate the the new roof over this over this link. The roof is going to have to be raised in order to get this to get headroom coming
through this ramp here. Um, uh, I've managed to integrate this roof to make it look more integrated with the roof of the existing. So, it's less cut up here as it was in the original plan. And then I think most importantly
um this was the this was the east view that faces down to Drift Road. Um and this addition has gotten significantly longer and I know it was a concern of the commissions initially about how much
of this is covering up this elevation of the end of the church and you can see it extends further into into the view of this end of the church. Um, in addition, because we're not redoing the interior of Holland Hall, we're going to have to eliminate this window. This is attic
space up here over the existing kitchen. So, we'll eliminate that window and temporarily not put this window in. So, you can see we're going to save these three which are in the existing bathrooms on the main floor and the lower level of
Holland Hall. Um, we have funding for another phase of work which will renovate the bathrooms at which point we will be able to put this window in. But for now, when we're finished with this project sometime next summer, it'll look
like this temporarily until we can uh do the bathroom renovations and add this window and this window. Um, in addition, because of the change of how the circulation patterns work, I am going to have to put another egress stair way
back tucked in the corner behind here on the on the north side of the church. So, you can see here that's a new door and stair coming down from here. Um, >> and when you say circulation patterns, do you mean I don't understand what that >> Well, that means
>> what's what's happened what's happened in the basement is that because I clo closed off this part of this stair, the bas the basement of Howland Hall had um a door that went out at grade down here
and it had a it had a half level stair and a door that came out there at raid, but because of the way I've had to put this ramp across here, I can't have that door anymore. Um, and as a consequence, I need a second means. This is becomes a second means of egress >> to get out of the
>> basement. So, you come out of the basement up this up this up this stair and then back down again. It's a little heruous, >> but it it satisfies the code for egress. So knowing uh knowing that there was concern um at the last hearing about
about this obscuring part of this, I I did this. Um, this is this is crude, but I think it explains what we're going to end up with. And really really the question is what does this look like here?
And is it is it a problem? And I actually actually kind of like the cascade of the smaller forms coming down here. Um, I think it works pretty well. But if you handle that gently, you can pass it around. Wow. Don't look too
closely. >> Would you like to sit? >> Thank you, >> Chris. The only question I'd have is is uh the stair now enters into um comes up to Howland Hall rather than being a bit
more private and u not having the steer public steer it right into >> well it's basically doing it's basic. So this is the plan that we're proposing right here. Basically right now there's this exterior concrete stair that dumps
right into Howland Hall. So this stair which is enclosed in interior is doing the same thing. It's basically replicating how this this stair approaches Howland Hall. Um so it it it comes directly into Howland Hall. It's the main main entrance to Howland
Hall. the concrete stair was >> was and and it will be gone and will be replaced by this which is essentially the same stair but with a roof over it. It's not concrete. It's going to be a you know a new built stair
>> when you talk about um the window being removed due to bathrooms. So, in the next renovation, >> I I don't we don't have any perview over the interior design, but I guess I'd want to understand. So, when that window
shows up, what would change here? >> Uh, well, the these these bathrooms will get renovated and partitions moved around so that we can get the third window back in here. >> Got it. So, the bathrooms may stay
there. It's just it'll be >> well, created. So the bathroom there mean this partition would end up right in the middle of that window. >> So and it's possible that the funding may be in place when we discover how much all this is going to cost the funding by the time we even before we
finish this phase of the project we may be able to start building the bathrooms in which case this window anyway would end up being part of the project. What? >> So, sorry. Just to be clear on that, the
the middle window that's it's going from what six lights to four lights, >> which this one? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That um so you're still planning to do that in the long run? >> No. No, not in the long run. Oh,
>> because because we're remember this is a vault in in in Holland Hall right now. This is a vated ceiling, but this area of the kitchen has a has a ceiling over it, a flat ceiling. >> So, um this window would end up being above the flat ceiling.
>> Okay. So, that so that's permanently gone. The other small windows you still intend eventually to >> Yes. >> to do those according to the original Yes. Okay. There is something very handsome about the symmetry established in the church
and then reflected in your elevation. >> Well, I mean that that was a the the comment that we got originally was that by by making this by making this similar to this same blue slopes, same long overhangs sort of helped integrate
Holland Hall more to the church. Now it looks like a carb buckle on the end of the end of the building. It just it just helps a little bit. >> Um, are there any comments from the public? >> Jeff, I just have some questions. Um,
so when the kitchen and the bathroom are not done, then the these two upper windows go away. How about this one right here? Does that one weight also? >> Um, that one weights also. Yes, >> just waits. >> It weights. >> Okay. So, I like the I like the fullness
of that rather than that other one. And then >> this one we'd be getting that, right? >> There's enough bathrooms down. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. This is the back side. >> This is the back side. This This is
existing. And what have I got here? >> That's the kitchen there. >> Yeah, this is the So, yes, it comes back >> and this one >> that that one >> stays there, but this will come later. >> Yes. Okay. >> So, then we'll get a window there,
double window there, and a double window here. >> Yes. >> Now, up above here, I assume that's is that usable space that they have up there? >> Uh, I had never been up there. Extra >> storage pull downstairs.
>> Okay. I thought if you could just open that up too. >> Well, we tal about that. >> You have a window. We can talk about that. >> But it would mean that the kitchen would be >> That's okay. >> Well, we good for smoke. We could we could we could take a divot out of the ceiling and it just seemed you know this
this this was a nice idea because it replicated the form of the exact >> but it's it's not a very important elevation of the building. >> And then the only other piece um that I just have a question on just so I understand is
>> so this is open in here. Yes. The roof doesn't come over. Okay. That allows this glass. >> It allows these >> stained glass. >> These stain glass. Yeah. Yes. >> Kept away. >> So comments ready.
So Kit um of course the the commission is serving two roles here as a commission and also advising the uh CPC community preservation committee and we've done approvals with the CPC at
town meeting uh to fund uh this how does that change how does the funding change are you making are there differences that will affect the funding from the community preservation >> as as talking with Laurel Alivera who's
who's chair of the of the of the u of the board trustees of the church. >> Um uh everything that we asked for that roughly $300,000 grant is getting done. >> Okay.
And we'd like you to say that if you agree to this. Okay. >> Other comments from the public. >> Just make a hallway. >> Oh gosh. Well, anyway, um Mark Schmid, >> I uh just want to So, Betty asked the
question which I was going to ask. Thank you, Betty. I knew you'd get up first. So, that takes care of that as my capacity of as a me in my capacity as a member of CBC. Um, and just in terms of my capacity as
a private citizen, uh, I'm glad to see the improvement of the adding the the bit of, um, decorative >> the decorative thing >> freeze there or decorative Yeah. in the gable. >> Yeah, I've scaled it down for that.
Yeah, I think that helps because I was worried before about all that blank space above Y above the uh the shed roof over the front of the entry doors. >> And by adding that embellishment, as you said, it picks up uh some of the
detailing of the gable and the church. And so I think that's that's made a a big improvement. I see a lot of head nodding, too. So >> I don't have any more comments. >> So Mark is the monitor
CPC monitor. >> He is the leazison between the CPC and the project. >> Any other comments from the public? Um, so Katrina, I know when we voted on the original certificate, you were concerned about um obscuring
that large window in the back of the church. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, it this this is it's tough, right? Because I think that the improvement is substantial. Um, I'm struggling a little bit with,
you know, we're not supposed to approve. We can't approve the dream. We have to approve every step along the way because the dream may never get realized. And so, whatever we approve, we have to be
willing to live with. So, if we concede, yep, that window isn't going to be there. it may never be there. Um, so I guess I like I I want to make
sure that I'm really clear about what we are saying okay to. Right. I I completely understand that >> you're concerned about this window. Is that right? >> Well, you know what? Let me just see here because I want to make sure like I have the before after part, right?
>> Um because this is revised. So this is what you're proposing. This is what was here before. >> Well, >> when we originally said yes, this is what was approved. >> And what we're saying is let's do this instead. >> Yes. >> Okay. And same here. This was originally
approved. >> Yes. >> And we're saying we have to do this instead. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And and just to be clear, the the I mean those small windows are >> what's there? Yes. Yes. Yes. What was there from the beginning? Yep.
>> So, um >> yeah. So, the I think so the only thing so that third window the at the very top actually I think you drew it in this time around because I think it was a >> this one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's going in. >> Yes.
>> Um I think the the kick out of the foyer, right? So, it's going to obscure the stained glass >> or sorry, the the >> plain glass >> the plain glass window.
>> Um, >> when it's going to make a clarification, I think um the thing about elevation is that you never really see it that way in real life. So, >> so when when you say that you're going
to lose that window, you will lose it down here. >> Yep. >> You will not lose it over here as you're coming up the room because you'll see right through and see it all. So, just want to point that out. >> Katrina, I built that model just for you. >> No. And I I'm sure you did, kid. I'm sure you get I walk that way every day,
right? I walk that way every day. >> I knew you were concerned about about the >> Yeah. It's just that funky little space right there, you know? It's just >> I I mean by by by the by the you know by the scale of it it's all kind of in proportion.
>> Another thing to keep in mind is is this property drops off towards the back of >> Yes. Palen Paul. So you never really see >> you're not never see this on the level. You're always looking >> you're always looking at it down here.
>> Yeah. And and since that whole foyer has to be changed, >> you know, is there like is there anything to consider moving this here or like that would be even
worse? >> So that well that that that would then definitely cover up this window actually. >> Well, because I don't know how low it is, right? It It goes It goes here. Goes way down here. That's it. So,
>> yeah. Even worse. >> It has to have to keep >> has to be away. >> We We looked We looked at actually sliding this down a little bit to make this space wider. >> A little wider. Yeah. >> And we thought we might be able to move it far enough so we wouldn't have to replace the well, which is right about
here. But in fact, we can't move it far enough um to get it away from the well. And the farther over we move it here, the more the closer it gets to this window. >> Yeah. Which makes it look funny on that side. >> Makes it look funny on that side. Um, so
we we left it there. >> Yeah. >> Thank you for doing that model. I think very very helpful even just in the >> Well, it's very it's very crude and I'm quite embarrassed by it, but um
>> not necessary. But I I'd like to go back to the um you said it's not a very important view, but this being a civic building, there is no view that isn't important. And in that um the theme of the symmetry doesn't
establish itself with this church. It goes back to Rome, Greece and so forth >> and in fact to our own forms. I think the if you could consider the um raised window
uh in the middle of what will not be potentially any symmetry until the other window is created. um might be bring it into the vocabulary that the rest of the project establishes
and your model with its various views reinforce which is just that slightly greater height then does go back to the uh the essence of the church and its symmetry
and how it works. It's a little kind of a fake because it would only be lighting the attic. Well, we we could we we could talked about it. We could take a divot out of the ceiling and frame a hole in the ceiling big enough so that you could look up through the hole and see that
window. It would bring the high light down into the kitchen, but it's kind of it seems kind of ridiculous to do that just for the kitchen. Um >> the people being in the kitchen less than >> Yeah, the outside. >> Sorry. >> The outside would look great. I I I
could I could put a a fake panel up here. Or >> why not just light the just create a very thin um joining of the u the attic floor and the kitchen floor just so where the
mountain is the crossar um allowed a little bit of light. I'm gonna bet you because this happens that that little attic because it's substantially more than just a little attic when you go into it uh is going to be inhabited sometime.
>> Oh, I I understand what you mean. So, just a band that that corresponds to the ceiling joist and then the window sitting right on the floor of the attic. But just to add that then makes this less a pedestrian building and more in the style and in the kind of character
of the the church which I think you acknowledged so nicely. >> We we we could do that I guess. >> I mean that that window is is in our budget. >> Oh >> budgets never get smaller. >> No they don't. >> Yeah. >> Exactly.
>> I just I wanted to add I'm Hi Pastor Heidi Fiori. I'm the pastor, the new pastor of the Westport Point Church. And part of our the gracious CPC grant that we have is funding all of these windows that are being added. And so when like I
the reason that we're not putting them in right away is because we are still working on the funding for the renovations of the bathrooms and the kitchen. But just so that you're aware like we do have the money in place for the windows. We just don't want to put them in until the bathroom and kitchen
are done. And so I I just wanted to make that clarification so that if you're concerned about the windows with it, we are we have every intention of getting them put in. It's just a matter of we want to get the inside done first. >> Yeah.
>> Another issue. >> Symmetry being what it is, I'd still languishing. But I I think that adding that window whenever you do would give a little bit more of the character of what is not just a kitchen but a whole
>> we can do what what would happen. >> Um I mean if I move to move this window up a little bit >> Oh now you're talking there and have a band here
>> that basically corresponds to the ceiling joist. Um, that would be easy to do >> and and the window would be light in the attic, but it would it would look great out here. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I I I love this. I love this
form. And in fact, if I raise that window, the line from this corner to that window to there would correspond with the breakboard. >> Um, >> yeah, >> I think we can I think I think we can offer to do that that window. Yeah, I think I think that would be a
big improvement. >> Your pencil doesn't want to just make it a a window of the brain hands >> so that it like the other >> you may um are getting a little too literal here. I mean,
>> I know we're getting carried away here, but >> that's why we go to church something like that. >> And that's that may be going a little far. >> That's interesting. It's >> much more expensive. Much more expensive
custom made, too. >> I I would prefer the rectangular window. >> Um, and can you remind me? So the So I like the idea if you can do it to put the bigger to put the band and then the window in the attic. I think it it it gets us there, right? And if that's
the intent, like why not? And there's nothing interior that we need to change in order to do that. So um okay so again it's the bottom part that we are where you just
actually I'm we're approving the top part right? Yes >> the revised. Okay so we would add that upper window to the top part. >> Yes in fact. Okay. So so let me let me if this is I'm going to have a band here
that corresponds to that. this joist and then we'll put this one down here. >> Okay. >> And the band would just be a trim board. >> Yeah, it just be a trim. >> What would be the size of the trim board? The same as the uh the joist, the
floor joist would I mean I'm >> 10 inch. >> I mean it may may have to be bigger than that because I'm I'm not sure where where this at this point where the ceiling is. It's probably probably somewhere right along. Well, it probably has to be higher than that, in fact.
>> So, you'd have a 12 in board. >> Yes. >> Across there. And then the window would be above that. Just so people are clear that when you talk about just putting a band across there, that is the bigger base of that band, >> but it's a large space. >> Big space. >> Yeah.
>> There's no reason though that you couldn't just uh make a little well in the attic. No one's going to fall in it and just >> It's a Yeah, it's a nonbearing wall. >> It's a non bearing wall. figure out. >> You can cut right through the joist. Make a little box going up. So you have
this box in the ceiling and that would make a nicer job. >> So what direction would you suggest for that? >> Well, that you could sit right down on the window. So you would have the window all connected all the way up. >> So just like the original. >> Yeah. >> Or what was it?
>> Extended in the middle there. >> Yeah. You had the windows stacked right on top of each other so you'd have no just a little space, you know. >> Well, I think we're saying though that if he if it was stacked tightly, they'd have to put a well in the ceiling. That's right.
>> So, they don't want to >> if I shouldn't say they we can we can we can make it look like this originally looked. >> It's not going to be all that hard to do. >> So, let's let's let's revert back to this. So, no band and just a stacked
window. >> No band, just a stacked window. Do you think it looks Do you think it looks better? I mean, stretched out a little bit more. I mean, like that band, not talking about big band, but you know, >> something. Let me let me say >> maybe it's a monitor thing.
>> Yeah, I think if we can get >> get it close conceptually >> close then we can >> let let's say one way or another we we'll extend the height of this window. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And and consult with the monitors. Yes. Yes. >> And so if I keep walking to the next So
that's So basically if I'm down on Drift Road, that's what it's going to look like. >> And then if I if we go to the next view >> here. >> Yep. >> Come around the corner. >> Come around the corner. So that little window is going to be a little window
because that's the bathroom and we're going to tackle that at a later time. >> Yes. >> Okay. So now >> this window and this window will come back at a later time. >> At a later time and get rid of these three little ones.
>> Okay. But those three large windows are going to stay and the two windows in the foundation >> two windows in the foundation >> and that one on the right is going to scooch in a little bit. Or is it? No, it doesn't. It's just it's going to be under the third window. Right. >> This one's under this one not aligned
with these windows. >> Okay. And then the egress stair is now down the back. Okay. Yeah. Could I say something?
Um, the the interesting thing about this is I believe this is the only building uh in the historic district that has to have handicapped accessibility. >> Has to have a what? >> Handicapped accessibility.
It's the only public building, isn't that correct? So that has created a lot of problems for this building as you've seen as they've gone along. You don't look at the insides, but if you think about it,
the insides really affected the cost. What are you going to the elevator? How does that affect the outside? So, so Kent and the others have been really struggling with this. Yeah. Yeah. >> And have found many solutions and finally now I think they have one.
>> So I just wanted to say my appreciation for the work that's been done because this is unique. It's a CPC project. It's a historical commission approval and it's handicapped accessibility. >> Yeah.
>> And all levels are going to be accessible. the drift road entrance. That door under the window we've been discussing is going to accommodate wheelchairs at grade. The lift, >> it it does pretty nearly now.
>> No, it will perfectly. And then the lift will provide access to all three levels and ultimately another way into the sanctuary through the ramps. So I think in terms of accessibility for community
members using the hall for a concert or whatever, it really gives um >> and that's the goal of this project is that ultimately we believe that this is a church for the community and that we want this space to be something more
accessible and more usable by the greater Westport Point community. And the the uh basement underneath the church itself is just going to be a basement. Now >> that is and that is the one area of the whole project that will not be
accessible to wheelchairs. It is going to have a a small staircase and that kitchen is not going to be used as >> because you have the new one. >> Exactly. >> Very good.
Are we at a point where we can make a decision? Further concerns before we go ahead. Do I hear a motion? >> I move to approve the revised designs as
presented as well as the one change to the window above the door on the >> east side. I think that's the only change that we made. >> So, is there a second?
>> Second. >> Did you want to Did you want to say anything about the acknowledgement that it will be the other two windows will be put in at a future date with all intents and purposes? >> You might even state that they have been funded. >> Well, the windows have been funded. The
interior changes have not been funded, which is probably the much larger ticket item. But that means that we have the funding. It'll get done. I mean, even if we if if if the worst comes to happen and we can't do the interior, we have the funding and we would get the windows
done. So, >> we also um are embarking on a capital campaign and a fundraising plan. This is in two stages. The first stage of the exterior and all the CPC work is hopefully scheduled for 2026.
At the same time, we're kicking off our fundraising efforts so that when we do the interior, hopefully in 2027, as well as working at different, >> maybe you can write into your motion um voting on the approval of the other
two going in at a future time. That way, they don't have to come back again. >> Yeah. So, I'm thinking about this because those are already approved. >> Yes. >> Correct. Um and so and what you're asking us to do now is
to approve a modification where you don't do something that >> Yes. >> Um >> say that again please. >> Well the the the the changes I mean the windows that that you have money for you
know they've already been approved. So, you're removing something um from your proposal that we've already approved. >> Yeah. I I mean, I think to keep it simple, we're approving the changes with that one window above the door and
then at some point in the future when you get funding and you come in and you're going to add new windows or whatever, then you know, just come in and we'll talk about that then. Right. I I like I I think we can't necessarily say we approve continue that someday.
You're going to add windows because that could be 10 years from now. We want it to be two years from now, >> but it may not be. And so I think >> Yeah. >> And there probably would not be any opposition to replacing a teeny tiny window.
>> Exactly. I I guess I just feel that we can't borrow the future too too far. Right. It's >> Right. Well, I mean, the building permits lapse and and certificates laps and so on. >> Um, so I'm just wondering if if we
should um just leave those windows as approved for now and you can come back to us later. I mean, if if the if the time if the clock runs out on those um I mean, the building permit will have to be closed out
somehow, right? And um >> I think you get two extensions. >> Two extensions. Okay. So anyway, I mean you're you're you're still planning to do what was already approved. I I don't think we need to take those things out of the project at
this point. >> Betty, >> I think now I'm the CPC side. >> Um we will not finance we will not give them the funding if they don't put the windows in.
So that funding is held until they put the window set up. >> I mean when you write your your note to the CPC about this, you should mention this. >> It h and make it clear that they have
been approved and they will be put in and they should be financed, but they the money should not be given to them until they put the window. >> Okay. >> Right. So >> that would help. So, would it be I mean, wouldn't it be better to to to just
leave those leave those windows as was approved in the original? >> Um, and uh and then if if ultimately you you really don't want to put those in, then then you come back to us for a change. >> Yeah. Let's just say that by presenting
this drawing, we're asking for a pause on these two. >> You're deferring. Yeah, you're deferring. >> Deferring. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know that we have to approve a deferral. >> That's Yes. >> So really then all we're approving
tonight is the extension of the um Yep. We're approving that and we're approving that one window change. >> Yes. This addition window. >> That window plus also the >> the stacked one attic >> of the uh
>> Yeah. Um, >> okay. Um, I wonder if if you'd be willing to withdraw your motion. >> I think it's me. I withdraw my motion. >> Okay. >> So that we can make a new motion.
>> So we can make a new motion. Okay. Motion is withdrawn. Um, so now just to be clear, what what we're proposing is is is to approve the the change to the entrance. Um the addition of a third window on the north side
>> um on the east side >> two windows. There's the north side and then there's the the extension of the one on east. >> Yeah, that's the north side >> and the door >> and the door >> the doorway and the second. >> Oh, okay. So So there four things.
There's there's um changes to the entrance um at the third window on the north side of the building. Um a new egress on the north side of the building and a possible
change to the middle window on the >> east >> east side of the building um to to be discussed with the monitors. Okay. Can I ask one question? Um, the two windows that are not to be uh that have
been funded but will not be installed until um those just don't fit in in the current >> Yes. And until we until we can re those windows would go here and here. And
until we can reconfigure this space to provide a handicap accessible toilet rooms, um we just can't put them in yet. >> Okay. So now, do I hear a motion? >> Um I will I'll move that we approve the
revised Oh, sorry. Did somebody want to say something? >> And then you don't have to say it. >> And then I don't have to say it. Excellent. So moved. Thank you for the hint. Phew. Thank god I was going to read my notes. So moved. >> Is there a second? >> Seconded by Caroline. Let's do a voice vote.
>> A roll call. Sorry. >> That's okay. Katrina Strozic. I >> Mark Thompson. I horny. I cared stuck. I >> Kendall. I >> approve. Okay. Now Betty, what what exactly do you want from me?
I want to know what you approve. It doesn't it doesn't affect our finances, >> but it does affect what's in the end. So they need to >> Okay. So
>> the approved because they are external. >> So the language of the Russia >> so so just a letter from me saying that the historical commission has approved these changes these four >> and we recommend it. Okay. [Applause]
>> I I have full size. >> Okay. Yes. You going to auction that off the silent auction? It >> I think you could you could put that in the silent auction at the Holly Fair. Somebody's going to pay good money for that kit. >> You should definitely do that.
>> That's awesome. >> Okay. Um, next item, uh, applications for certificate of nonapplicability. We had, uh, we had several, >> uh, this month. Um, so Jill Sber Acan, we actually discussed
this at the last meeting. Um, 197 Road, um, CNA for exterior stairs and railings repair. Uh and then we have um an application by uh Pamela Trip
24 Valentine Lane to replace roof of garage and attached shed with asphalt shingles in the same color approved uh by the clerk and the chair. And that's it then for Cas. >> So is that so on the agenda for tonight
it was the stairs and the railings. I think Valentine Lane was approved last week or last month. >> No, it's it's that's a new one. I I think it was just re just uh received. >> Okay. Can you It wasn't on the um >> agenda. So, can you tell me what it is
again? >> Thank you. Sorry. >> Yeah, that was just received. >> Okay. Item three, Westport Historical Society presentation on proposed collaborative repairs at the Bell School.
And Garrett, what what order of business does this go under? It's not a preliminary review. It's just um >> it's application for certificate of nonlicability. >> It is non-applicability. Okay. >> So, we're just just reporting on things that we outside the meeting. >> Okay.
>> No, I'm sorry. The um Bell Schoolhouse. Um, yeah. What I mean it's a we're pulling a an advisory enroll to the CPC. >> Okay. So, not necessarily general business. It is a special section. >> Yes, it could be a special section. I
didn't put that way in the meeting notice, but yes, could be. >> Okay. >> Okay. U basically >> just bring you up to date on >> state your name, please, for the for the record. >> I'm sorry. >> State your name for the record. Oh, I'm
sorry. Von Bar and I'm here for the historic the Westport historical society where I am chairman of the facilities committee and the facilities committee has put effort into
the whole Bell School project and this brings you up to date as to the fact that the building is pretty much completed. In fact, I believe this coming weekend we're having an open house for anyone for the public who
would like to come and see what we've done. And uh so the the interior is finished. It's the exterior that we're looking to go forward with. And
originally it was to have been painted as part of our contract with RPO. Um, but it was also discovered when they had
the the uh interior walls off that the fabric the sheathing of the clab that the clabard was kind of shot and after 200 years as you might expect
it has some holes in it. So they suggested that what we ought to think about is is new clabard and doing that before painting because we would be wasting our money. And I think that's probably correct.
So we have we are applying for new funding or additional funding from CPC to complete this project. And I think it's probably not envisioned for this fall. That's too late for paint
for for construction and painting, but it would be next spring. And that will really complete and um so let's see what else can I tell you
about the the materials will be superior materials. There'll be cedar sheet cedar red cedar um clabard and mahogany trim.
Uh windows will be addressed because they're leaking badly and around the doors and it should be perfect.
And so I'm wondering if you have any questions that we should be addressing before we take this to CPC. >> Are you removing You're removing the damaged clabards? >> I'm sorry. >> What how many clabards are What's the
scope of the job in terms of the siding? >> You mean the square footage? >> Well, I mean, are you doing the whole building? >> Well, we would be doing three sides of the building. The fourth side of course is covered by the the addition which already has been sided.
>> Okay. So um and you'll be replicating what's there. >> Yes. >> So you're residing. >> Yes. Compared. >> You're not repairing. This isn't totally residing. >> No. Although we anticipate well, one of
the other things that was discovered during this period was that there was a lot of rot inside the the walls of the building due to the leakage through the windows and through the holes and so
forth. So there it is anticipated some spots in particular, but it is antip anticipated that there will be repairs to the interior woodwork. >> I have a question concerning the
windows. You said you were addressing them. How are you? How is that? >> I'm sorry. I can't I That's I have the problem. I can't hear. >> I think you said you were addressing the windows. You were addressing the windows. What are you going to be doing to the
windows? >> We're not putting in new windows. No. >> Right. >> The windows are are fine as they are. This ash will stay. It's just going to be the frames and the and the um um >> the flashing.
>> The flashing that will be replaced. >> So, you're replacing the trim around the windows? >> Yes. new trim because the trim some of the trim that's there is the problem. >> Yeah. But you're you're not repairing
the trim or you keeping some seeking some of the original and then making repairs. No, I think I think probably we'll replace all the trim because some of it has been replaced pieced and some
of it's rotten and some of it has provided leaks. So, it's it's not clear that it will be 100% replaced but it's very likely. >> But it will be in the same proportion. >> Yes, exactly the same. >> Mhm.
But the the sash will will remain, >> right? >> Betty, would you like to say something? >> So again, um, a CPC is asking the, uh, project manager to come to the historical commission, very different
from the hall which is in the historic district. So basically your role is here is not to give approval for any certificate. It's just actually to inform the CPC that you believe that
this is a valuable project and necessary and that they will be using the proper materials because basically it's replace asis. I mean it's basically with same materials uh replacing and repairing. So
that's what we ask if this seems reasonable to you and again the letter or form or however you do it as advice to the CPC because we're going to be asked to finance it. The town is going to be asked to finance it.
>> We're we're also looking at this not as a new contract but as a as a change order on the old contract because it's sandwiched between the two projects between the old
between repair of the body and the paint. >> How is the um project documented? Uh drawings are generally produced and they then are approved and based on that
construction is undertaken. But uh are you do you have documents? >> Do we have documents? >> Yes. Drawings that that >> Yes. >> indicate what you >> Yes. >> And those have been submitted. >> Um well, we have re Sorry. You mean do
we have documents for the >> drawings that that show how you >> for the shingling the the collabors >> and any other parts that you're doing? >> The the rest of the project. Yes. We've we've utilized a an architect for the whole project
to be involved >> and he must have created I assume this is being bid. >> No, we will not we hope not to rebid it. >> You bid it originally. >> I'm sorry. You put it out for bid
originally. >> We did. Yes, we did. The contract. So my question was what were the documents and have they been submitted? >> So I think what Betty was saying is it's not our purview to review those documents. >> I see
>> that but our purview is to say the Bell Schoolhouse is of historical significance to the town. And so if CPC chooses to fund, we're saying we would like you to fund because it's a is it a
historical building, but it's not our purview to say what they will and won't do. It's like for like >> Well, I know. But Betty did say one thing that we look at it to see and and
analyze the materials, right? you >> because we are always concerned about the longevity of the job, >> right? >> And want to wherever the CPC money is put, we want to see it go on these historic buildings and stay there for a while. >> Correct. >> And we'd like the paint to stay on the
on the clapboards. >> So maybe we should see the specs. >> I think I think just one second. >> I think I've included the description in what I've given you about the what what is going to be utilized.
Um I you do I would assume you already have those documents because you approved the original remember you approved it in a former meeting. So you have documents you just haven't seen them um for the for the project as a
whole. This basically was discovered afterwards after that they thought that they were finished and they were it discovered which happens all the time uh that they were rotten so they want to replace them and the question is with what they're
replacing them does that make sense to you and would you recommend that this project um be you don't recommend the project you recommend the the u materials that she's
going to use and I think they said what the materials are >> cedar and hugging >> does that make sense but that the details would be authentic >> because their details are changing all the time as materials and so forth but
that the but that the details uh that you will be replicating that you should be replicating have been documented and approved From what I understand, you did that previously at the previous meeting. >> We we did. Well, again, we
>> we're not approving, but but we we did we did have a vote and and we did recommend um to the CC. >> So there'll be no change externally project. >> There will be no external change. >> No changes. Look, >> it's just the materials. But that's um
so the appearance on the outside is one thing um that they were uh the details to make an authoritative structure. The details are as important as the mascara.
they they uh talk about the the capacity and the tools and and the protocols that were used in the various periods original to this construction. So that that all I was asking was were
there details were they documented so that we're not seeing a kind of a confabulation of different periods uh when we look at this as a building another 500 years from now. the historical tradition question.
>> Yeah, it may be. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> you have to think >> one thing is that when we're talking about like for like, the old clapboards are different than the new clabboards. The old clabboards have a square edge.
The new clappers that you buy have a round edge. This is what I mean. We should see a detail of what when they say light for light, we're just using the word clapper. You want to know what kind of clap word is being put on my
drawings. Drawings. Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thank you. Um, [Music] I don't know. I I believe that the collaborates that are presently on the
building are original 1842 which would >> have the square >> at the form that you're speaking of and I don't know if modern clabards are available with that. >> But this is an historic restoration.
It's it is not to be this this doesn't happen out of a box down at Home Depot. I I don't know the answer. >> Well, it's important if we're or if there is a review process that is authoritative.
>> Okay. >> I I will find out. >> Thank you. >> So, just for my own clarification because I guess I'm a little confused about process, >> right?
>> So, as a committee because this dates me I have only been around for less than a year and the Bel Schoolhouse project has been going on a long time. >> A while. Yes. >> So at some point
um Ivonne or somebody came here and said this is what we would like to do to renovate the schoolhouse. >> Mhm. >> And those drawings and details were presented. >> We reviewed those. We accepted those and we said, "Hey, CPC, we agree with what
they want to do. This is an important building. You know, we, you know, please, if you are able to fund it, we'd love you to fund it. This would be a good project." And so, the CPC funded it. Now, fast forward,
um, we can't just paint the exterior because we found some challenges. So, we need to come back here to say we weren't planning on replacing the exterior, but now we need to repair slashreplace.
And in order for us to approve that, approve is the wrong word. In order for us to >> understand that and recommend it to the CPC, then we would need >> more specifics about the material and what they're using to
make sure it's historically correct. And then we could make a recommendation to the CPC that says yes, based on what they're um going to use, we recommend that this would be handled.
All right. Well said. Okay. >> Who is the contractor? Is it someone who has >> RPO? >> And uh does he have or do they do do they have expertise in in historical >> Oh, yes. >> projects. I mean, I know they really do
a lot of work around town. >> Let's see. What they they did the the Bethl in New Bedford. >> Yeah. So maybe we would we ask them for cut sheets or is that the best thing to >> Oh, we'd like a drawing that shows
exactly what they're using the material and the a drawing of that material and and and to show us that it matches the actual clapper if they could bring in a clapper and another one that would certainly show us that >> could do that.
>> I mean um that's the only way to do it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What >> the cost? >> What normally is the is the case is there various standards national uh
state local for an historic building to be documented as such to be so to speak claimed as such. And um so surveys are done of the building um as early as possible and very often
these are funded by national sources. So you don't it it isn't really it's a matter of making the application but what you then end up with is a document that has um the authority of the funding group as well as whatever local um
reviews there may be. But thereafter then you have a document which allows you to um basically provide that as a bid document or as a portion of the bid documents. So that the standard that was set that makes this a historic building
so we don't wander from from where we believe we are doing uh and most people on most of these boards are not professionals in that respect but but it really means that our preservation project is truly a preservation project
and that it it begins uh with preservation and then is documented and bid and passed. on and the funding usually comes from other sources but they judge whether you deserve it the the
youn the the funding because you have observed what the initial documentation provides and for an historic building uh it's one of many but one that's called out as
a as a civic building of of interest that that usually would be the case. >> Okay. Well, back to the contractor. >> So, what exactly is it that you want her to bring in?
>> Well, what what is the basis for the uh the bid documents? >> Okay. Is it is it um authoritative or is it just kind of an incremental view of what what is uh in place?
If we're going to expend the public monies on a public declared building uh of historic interest, then we want to be restoring um to the accurate documents.
>> So, you need to know what's there now. Well, the my question was much simpler than we're going, but I was just >> But I mean, we what she needs to give to you is what's there now and what's going to be put there. Correct.
>> And pictures. >> Yeah. I mean, the whole >> what was the basis for the the bid documents? which are going to be the legal authority in in this whole thing with contract and so forth. >> So did you you use the word I think I
heard you use the word a survey. >> Well that's how you get it and the surveys usually can be funded by one of the various levels of uh of authority. survey would also have to be funded by CPC and there's a whole there would be a
delay of a year for that to be done because uh the deadline is December 11th um to get everything in for next May um I I haven't this is hasn't been the
process of historical commission to go into this kind of detail >> to date and that could be one the issues. >> May I interject? >> Sure. >> As an architect, I've been familiar with this building for a very long time. Sarah, I don't know who your name. You don't have >> Mark Thompson.
>> Mark Thompson. Mr. Thompson. Uh, do you want to what? >> It's, as they say, a wet Thomas. It's a P. Thompson. >> Thompson. >> Okay. Um, uh, do you understand that this building has been, this is the very last little
piece of a complete renovation building and and there was no original survey done of it. It's been it's been done well and this is just one last little detail, one last little repair that has to be made to build it. We're not going
to do a complete archaeological survey of the whole building just to replace collaborates. >> Sure. Um, so it is reasonable that that we demonstrate that the clabs we're going to put on the building match the clabs that are there that any trim
boards that we're going to put on the building match the trim boards that are there. But that's seems to be a fairly simple thing to do and uh can be done easily and quickly I would say. So maybe the the learning here for us is
if we can do that for the schoolhouse given where it is in its process. Maybe if in the future we make recommendations to the CPC, we probably need to think about what do we need to
make a recommendation. Do we need a historical survey? like how how much rigor do we want to put behind those kinds of things just so that we can you know we have an idea of what we should or should not or you know a
better way to approve of something right I am not I don't have your experience so I wouldn't have even known to ask those questions right but you're here for a reason and maybe it's an opportunity for us to mature as a commission to figure
out oh hm Maybe we should be looking to ask for those kinds of things. I would agree with Kit. We're a little late to the movie on this one. >> Yes. So I think what we need my recommendation would be
given what we have done in the past what would we ask Ivon to do for us so that we can make the recommendation to CPC to move this along and then learn from Mark and
ask ourselves, you know, there are probably other historical properties in Westport that we're going to >> I'm looking over your shoulder assuming that the handy house uh had a standard as well. >> Yeah. So, >> the handy house did have a full survey done. The handy house did have a full
survey done. Yes. >> Uh may I suggest that um the commission could if the commission does not make a recommendation to the CPC
and we have to wait another month, it may be too late for the CPC. December's okay. >> December's okay. >> December's okay. >> All right. So, I will help bring the appropriate materials for your
review next month. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, just just to be clear, so so we'd like to know what what's there, what what are the collaborates that are that are on there now, and what are you proposing to put on? Yes.
>> And I guess also any any um trim boards and new materials. >> The trim boards are very standard flat boards. There's nothing. >> They're just plain old SRS boards. That's all they are. >> So I think it's everything that's in this list, right? It's mahogany sills,
window casings, red copper step flashing, the sashes will remain, um cedar clabards, and paint color. sort of profiles of of the sills. Um, is that something that I mean Mark, what
what what would what would be your >> what did you say profiles of >> of the of the sills? >> Yeah. Well, there are buildings that are historically kind of set in the vernacular >> that is passed on generationally, but then there are other ones and I
assume Handy is one of those that was documented that if you like the word archaeology, it was looked into in depth. Uh there were probably many u over the residential use of the property. Many
changes But at some point there is generally established a period of authority where that was what the building sprang from >> that period of craftsmanship, material
use and so forth and circumstance. So um there and as I say the vernacular is is appropriate to uh buildings as I understand it that are um
have been taken as a part of the community's participation at various levels in various ways and so forth. Uh, and I think this one, as so far as I've seen it, um, uh, was probably more thoroughly documented and and, uh,
pursued, funded, constructed, and that's certainly a wonderful set of goals to, >> but you also don't need to go back and and you've kind of admitted the the the
status of that building, it's being passed down. Uh the schoolhouse may be being passed down in another way that makes sense for that kind of an approach. Uh but think of
on the national scale what's happening in Washington at the moment. >> This is so there there are various approaches. >> Yeah. Well, I think we we >> we're not going to use that one. >> Yeah. I think we need to help you move forward with this project and we've
already approved >> a big part of it. So, so I'm just trying to understand what um what you Mark, you and and Bill specifically, you know, uh would like to see. >> So, Bill asked for a sample of the clabard, >> right?
>> A a draw. The thing is we you say clab words and we go over there, we're going to look at it and all of a sudden we see this modern clab word that doesn't match it at all because we we use the word clabard which you go down and buy them at Home Depot or Y >> the lumber places.
>> So that's all I was thinking that that could be some of something where we are very surprised that it was done wrong. >> So So you would like photos and ideally a sample >> Yeah. of of the replacement. >> So you would like you would like a
sample >> if if possible or a photo, right? So if I think the example, right, was if it's a squared edge, >> yes, a round edge >> and a modern clab is a round edge. >> We want a picture that Valwis is going
to use. Here's the squared edge clabard that we will install. >> Exactly. >> Here's, you know, the picture of here's the sill. Here's the trim board. So we know this is what it looks like. If we have to replace this, this is what we're
going to use. And then that way it's great if you go over there and take one of those clabirds that are falling off >> and take one over here. >> Would be also good for the district because you could see what the actual
clabirds were. Uh and um and well, we we could get a new clabboard and compare it to it. But um that's all we need. >> And all board and new board. >> Well, there's also one other factor here because if we're going to do the
remaining three facades all in one sweep, then we're leaving we're wiping out a record uh and replacing it with a different record. And if that's our intention or that's that's where where we are in the process. >> I think that's where we are in the
process. Yes. Well, but we could as as I think Bill is saying uh take some of the existing the demolition uh piece and preserve that uh so that that if a different attitude
and these are all you know kind of floating uh values normative structures and and then we have a way of looking back at what maybe we lost or we gained a new insight to
>> so pre preserve in the sense of a historical artifact. So so just preserve pieces of the the >> as a community we kind of are a library of >> Yeah. Well, I'm sure the historical society would be >> open to that. I mean >> what they're there for.
The problem the problem that you face is that we try in the district to keep the old clabboards on the buildings because it has a surface. It has paint layers that have built up and built up and um there's a character to that that you
don't have when you're putting all new clabboards over this building. But in this case, apparently it needs all new clabboards. Um >> maybe it doesn't. I don't know. >> Maybe it doesn't. You could take you can take them off uh
and put um Tyveck under them and >> put them back on caulk them nicely, back paint them, seal the back of the cladboards and they won't lose the paint anymore >> because they didn't seal the back. >> It's more extensive than that. >> Okay, >> but that's that's what we try to do in
the district. Um, I mean you there are collabor that exist on 18th century early 18th century houses that have been painted over the years and they're like brand new because
the ultraviolet light has not gotten to them and there's very strange ways that they've applied them. They used to feather them. They would cut them with a a slice with a draw knife to get a a feathered joint and then they would and
they came in short pieces like this and they would nail them on with a big rose head nail, big hand rod nail right there where you see it. Uh and um so you see all of that in the old stuff. That's why
we like to keep it there. But I mean that's that's part of the preservation >> ready. >> Could I recommend that you go look at the clabards? >> I recommend that you go look at the clabards.
>> Okay. >> I think it that would be the most helpful thing. >> Mark wants to go. >> Sure. >> Go take a look at it. Um, I wanted to tell you that this building will be um under a preservation restriction. We've
hired uh Eric Dre who does these things um and he is actually the preservation restriction is at the Mass Historic Commission right now and it um then we found out about the Clabberts.
Uh so I think it'd be good if you went and looked at it. They may not be original. Who knows what they are? So go take a look. >> Okay, >> that'd be really helpful. >> And then they could come in in December, first Monday, and then they come to us
the third Thursday of December, >> right? >> That gives them three weeks >> and and you might want to explore with the contractor the possibility of using >> the life contractor will hear about this tomorrow. Well, there's also uh there isn't one
product uh available. Uh I don't know how the bid process was, but if you had stipulated something over something, um it's more likely that you would get uh what you were asking for rather than if there's no stipulation whatsoever and
you get whatever you get. So there is a process that does not necessarily have to be more expensive. It just be more incisive. >> So I think that would be in the change order. Right. Which we don't have yet.
>> Yes. >> Right. So I think that's a good point. Instead of it being just this general, hey contractor, go replace this, it's hey contractor, go replace this with. >> Yes. Ivonne, when is the open house that you just mentioned?
>> Sorry. >> The open house. You mentioned an open house. When is that? >> Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. >> This week. This weekend. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. It's on our website. >> Next. This coming weekend. >> Do you know what exactly it is? But
>> this coming weekend. Not this coming weekend. Yeah. >> Seventh and eth. >> I'll look at it. >> Yeah. You'll probably get >> this coming weekend. >> That's right. >> She can't hear you. >> It's this coming weekend.
>> Y >> Okay. >> The I'm forgetting the dates, but I think it's it's either 7th, 8th, and 9th or 8th, 9th, and 10th. >> It's Saturday, Sunday, and Monday this week coming.
>> Okay. So, um I'll put you on the agenda for December 1st. And um Bill Bill will go look at the building. Mark, are you gonna share that too? Sure. >> Um and uh and then
if if you guys find something, you know, if there's more information that you think is needed, um then maybe you can communicate that to Avon. >> Also, the I mean, I'm I'm with you exactly, but it sounds like there's somewhat of a steamroller behind this
one and that we may be a little late. Maybe not. Uh >> I'm sorry to say that again. >> Well, there's been a bid process and you've signed a contract. >> We Oh, this would be a continuation of the contract with the people who done
the interior and built the addition and everything else. So there's nothing that uh is left out of these the historic reviews. They become more intense and more focused. uh um as
you go up the ranks from local to state to national uh so I I have no idea what has happened but it's it's useful to go back and and at least review to see what what is >> Would you
feel happier if I were to give you a the that if I would involve the the architect who has seen us through all of this with his specifications for what
needs to be would that be >> that would be very helpful. >> Yeah. I mean it might solve >> solve the whole problem. >> Perfect. That would be it >> to make it an efficient process uh if you could provide it who should receive it and then can distribute it to all of
us. Yeah, you send it to me and >> All right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, just so everybody knows it's Saturday, Sunday, Monday 10 to 1.
>> So, the 8th, the 9th, and the 10th. >> Okay. Okay. Um, general business monitors reports. Uh, 1971 Main Road. Um, I'm not sure who the monitor was for
that. Um, maybe it was Deborah. Anyway, I don't I don't think I have anything on 1971. Anybody else? Um, 1871 Main Road changing plans. This was the uh the Datali
House and um the um they're proposing some some minor changes to what we approved and and Deborah and I discussed it and and felt that um the the changes were appropriate. >> And that's 1879. Is that what you said? I'm sorry. >> That was 1871 mainly.
>> 1871. >> Yeah. Um, any other general business? Okay. Do we have a motion to adjurnn? >> Yes. Motion to adjurnn. Is there a >> second? I second.
>> Okay. All in favor? I. All >> opposed. The meeting is adjourned.