Okay. Uh, this meeting of the Westport Historical Commission is now open. Uh, voting members, uh, present, Katrina Strozik, Ward Mooney, Deborah Chi, Garrett Stock, William Kendall, Mark
Thompson is replacing Timothy Bryant who's absent tonight, and Caroline Bolter. Okay. Okay, the first order of business is the uh minutes of December 3rd and uh sorry, December 1st and November 3rd. Um are there any comments on the minutes of
November 3rd? >> I have just um typos that I'll correct on the drive but not worth mentioning. >> Okay. >> Spelling errors. >> Um if there are no other comments, do I hear a motion? >> I move that we approve the minutes of November 3rd.
>> I second. >> All in favor? I I >> All opposed. Motion passes unanimously. Um on to the minutes of December 1st. >> Um I noticed one typo and that is uh Bill Chase's name. It's spelled with a
C. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, >> sorry about that. >> Correct that. >> Um any other comments? Can I hear a motion? I move that we approve the meet the notes of the meeting of November 1st December
December 1st. >> Okay. >> Moved by Caroline, seconded by Bill. All in favor? >> I >> I. All opposed. >> Motion passes unanimously. Okay. Next item is the treasures report. There is no treasures report this month.
Um so on to uh applications for certificate of appropriateness. First item is 2061 Main Road which is the Harbor Raster building. Um presented by Bill Chase. [Applause]
Well, >> good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the commission. Uh first of all, I want to thank Deb Sulfi and uh and Betty Slate uh for their initial guidance um in this project. I think I uh noted at the uh
previous meeting here that uh I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to projects such as this and uh Deb and Betty have been a pretty strong guiding force for me so far. So I just want to make that public and thank you very much Deb.
All we're looking for and I think you all have uh the application and the pictures that I sent along. All we're looking for in this project is to uh basically rehab the building uh with the
same materials um in the same condition that it was in when it was originally constructed. Uh we are thinking about raising the building up 18 in. Uh that was as of Deb's guidance. Um, I believe
18 inches can happen without any further review. And I guess if your question is why would you choose to raise it? I guess my answer would be in an age of rising sea levels, why wouldn't you? So I think the 18 in should be part of the package.
Aside from that, we simply would like to replace the uh the roof shingles, the the uh cedar shingles on the siding, uh the trim and the doors and windows in the same uh construction that they are right now. Uh one issue that I cannot
answer for you right now that I think you may have questions on uh is in regard to the uh the heating system. Currently, the building has no heat. Uh so we have asked a couple of contractors um to give us some quotes on a heat
pump. That means there would be some external machinery on the outside of the building. Um as far as where that could go, that machinery, if it was on the west side of the building, you would not see it from the street. You'd only see it from the
water, actually. Uh, it could go on the north side, but unfortunately on the north side of the building, just inside of that is a beautiful mural inside of the shack, and I would hesitate to destroy that. So, if you haven't seen it before, it's it's worth
a look. Uh, so if we can, uh, we'll have that, uh, that heat pump installed on the west side of the building out of sight if that is approved. Aside from that, I simply want to rehab the building and bring it back to its
original uh condition uh with a little bit of elevation. Uh just well just because I guess um that's all we're asking for, folks. Nothing nothing major, just a a rehab. >> Who owns the building?
>> Town of Westport. >> This is actually a town office. So if you if you raise the building 18 in um will you what will you do about the steps there? >> The uh I think it might have been Tim Gillespie.
>> It was Tim. >> Yeah. Who said why don't you just take this a step at a time get the the building rehabbed first and then let's worry about the ADA compliance part of it which is going to have to be addressed at some point. Uh currently uh
the steps to the front door are two pieces of granite actually three. >> Um so clearly it is not in compliance. I have had discussions with a gentleman from the mass office of disability who was adamant that that building must have
uh handicap accessibility. And the reason is is because it is a it's a town office. people come in there for information, uh, for permitting, so on and so forth. So, as such, it does have to become ADA
compliant, but I think Tim's, uh, words were were spot on. Uh, let's address the building first and then let's worry about the ADA part of it. >> Um, just to add to that, I was at that CPC meeting that you're talking about when Tim made that suggestion. Tim
thought that perhaps if you could get permission from your neighboring um land that one of those metal um ramps could be installed that goes like two switchbacks to get a wheelchair say up into the building and it would
have to it might traverse land that you don't actually own so or the town owns. So that would have to be a whole other process to get that done. But Tim had suggested do one of these these um metal we've all seen them in these front doors
these little they're removable. They're not permanent ramps. >> Part of the problem is we sit on such a small footprint. >> Yeah. >> Right. So if you raise it up 18 inches now you've got to add 18 feet is it to to the length of it. >> Foot per inch. >> Foot per inch. Right. So, um,
>> well, that that's one of my concerns about like putting off that aspect of the project is you might discover that, for example, raise raising the building 18 in makes it impossible or much harder to provide that access.
>> Well, I would say this, uh, Mr. Chair, that the only place that that ramp could probably go is in the only two parking spaces we have available to us. Um, and with the parking wars that go on down there on a seasonal basis, uh, that would be that would require some
adjustment, but I think that's probably the only place we could do it. >> I I for me personally, having been a client of the harbor master. Um, I have never stepped foot in the building to conduct business because it is so small. Typically, in my experience, what's
happened is I go to the door, I knock, maybe I hand a check, maybe I hand some paperwork, but you know, it's not I mean, I can see the mural from the outside, but I, as a member of the
public, don't enter the shack to do business. And so I guess I'm I I'm not familiar enough with compliance laws or any of that, but I'm I just also am really curious about
why that why that person made that statement. Um >> when you do a certain level of improvements, you trigger ADA compliance. And these would clearly trigger ADA compliance because it's a certain dollar amount of improvements and an overall um you know adjustment to
the overall building. But you can apply for a waiver. >> So you could use this as a potential reason why you don't need access because you could create a window or a drop off box or something else that is accessible
that's outside the building. >> That that came up in the discussion with this gentleman. He said you can apply for a waiver but the town would have to declare it a non-public building. Uh so those are steps that we haven't really even considered yet but that is a
possibility >> and then you have the problem if it's non town building CIPC funding would not be available to you. So you have this catch 22. So you've got to do this one step at a time. This is why Betty said it's so complicated. >> Yes.
There are many uh ramps um that you can deal with, but we also have a lift and I'm fairly certain that lifts are now weathered weatherproof so that they can be used in in
becoming compliant even if it's not very often used and it would would be much more modest in terms of the real estate that it takes up. >> That would solve the small footprint problem. Well, >> if you had the stair to the side, one
side, and the the lift to the other, u I think you could probably retain a little bit of the character without having so much of a ramp just taking another view for all intents and
purposes. Well, I think that's why this really needs to be a two-part project because options like you just mentioned are still issues that we have to explore. Um, but when it comes to
wrangling town money, uh, as far as I'm concerned, and again, as a novice, uh, you get it when you can get it. Uh, so we have, and I don't know how closely you all follow the CIP issues. I suspect you do. Um,
the $100,000 that I had asked for uh had passed CIPC. They sent the recommendation along to the select board Monday night. They approved it. They gave it their stamp and they sent along to the finance committee. So, after finance, it's town meeting and that's
the end of it. As far as I'm concerned, if it gets past finance, you have to think you got a pretty good shot at town meeting after that. So I'm I'm becoming a little bit more optimistic pending your vote tonight uh that this project
can happen. But I do believe it has to happen in two phases. >> One is one the reconstruction >> master plan that gives you a certain if you sign on to the master plan a certain pace that is affordable for however your
fundraising goes. But uh that that might mean that you could do everything necessary uh urgently and then carry on as as the master plan gets approved over two or three years. It's it's a long-term project. I you
know this is not just rebuilding a shack. Obviously there's so much to this um and but again I think this is why we have to take it in stages. >> Is there a parking issue? We have two spaces.
>> Uh the rest of it, of course, this time of year, there's plenty of parking. >> August is another story and there's never enough parking. >> So, uh again, the small footprint that we're on uh kind of dictates where we go
with this. We had some ideas early on and Deb will tell you that uh once I was once we had the CIPC tenatively approved then I'm thinking okay if we get money from them if we get money from CPC wow we could do something
great. I think that's a bridge too far in in reality. So, I think just keeping it simple, rehab the building, raise it up a little bit, uh, is the smartest and most reasonable way to go.
>> Well, CPC does fund, um, lifts. We did that at Howland Hall. CPC is paying for a portion of the lift that will be installed there. So you could if you did have the requirement say a year from now you went through this 18-in lift and
then you know the building and then you found you couldn't get a waiver and the town didn't want to say it's okay not to be accessible then maybe you get a new grant for CPC lift if it's a smaller you know footprint and if you need it
there's also the question do you need a lift do you need to have accessibility if you can find a workaround of either a mailbox or a drop off box. If you have a box at the town hall that people can bring their things to, that's accessible. >> Um, then if they have to be in the
building on a regular basis, say you had somebody who was disabled who wanted to work there, they'd have to get in. So that would be a different question. They'd have you have to provide access to somebody who actually worked there who was disabled. So there's a different requirement then. So you have to sort
of, like you said, take it one step at a time. I think that's prudent. >> Yeah. So, I think our, you know, our our scope of of uh oversight is is really about um the exterior appearance and
appropriateness. Um so, maybe we could just go through those items and um and and and make sure that that we're all in agreement. Um so, I'm looking here at at this um uh estimate from uh from a contractor.
Um, and so it it it lists um a few things. Uh, so you're you're planning to use >> here's some and then there's this >> um planning to use PVC trim with cortex fasteners. I don't know what
those are. >> Um, well, as far as you're asking a question about the trim. I'm I'm I'm asking I mean I think we need to we need to take a look look at the materials you're proposing to use. I mean the windows, the doors the window as a Marvin window. It's on
the other >> Yeah, this this is specked as a Marvin window. So um >> well I would say this uh Mr. chair that those two >> uh estimates >> came early on in this project uh before
I knew much about prevailing wage and everything else that has to play into it. >> Mhm. >> Now, pending approval of all this, it's going to have to go out for bid >> and prevailing wages going to have to play into it. So those numbers and even
the materials I would say um are subject to change >> uh pending your approval of course. Um so again those were just early estimates when we started this project. >> Um I've obviously learned a lot since
then u and again the prevailing wage is going to change those numbers uh significantly. Uh I did not when these two gentlemen came down to do these original estimates I did not specify anything to them. I
just said we want to replace what we have here. >> Now I know that trim is not plastic it's wood because it's rotting away. >> Um my approach again is just to replace it with the materials that it currently has. Um the um what I see here is two things
that should be specified when you go further with this to to when you put your specifications together for the final quote. Uh the one that would concern us would be um well PVC trim trim has been um used in the district
but it has to be painted. One of the reasons is because the edges has a raw edge on it. It's a cellular PVC, so it's got a different surface on the edge. Uh, and um, it will weather differently. What I mean is it gets will get mold on
it or whatever. And so, usually you paint PVC trim trim, it holds very very well uh, with 100% acrylic paint. And, um, and also um, the fasteners. I don't know
what these fasteners are, but you usually use stainless steel nails and then you putty the nails also because they'd show uh if it wasn't painted. So, I think you would put that in there. If you're going to use PVC trim, that would
be acceptable to us. I believe it. I don't know what the rest of the people feel. Um it is a substitute material that is very durable and it's been proven. Uh the other thing is the windows. Um I
think uh you have chosen the Marvin window. It doesn't specify what Marvin window it would be the um is it the elevate? Um which is it's fiberglass on the outside, excellent wood on the inside, but also you would specify that
it be simulated through divided light. >> It would be 12 over 12s, right? >> Yeah. That would be simulated. >> That's what's >> if he's going to do it exactly like that. of course um 9 over9 would be acceptable too >> okay >> which would fit in with the type of
window that's in the district >> depend on that particular kind of building so those just are the two things that I see here the rest of it is all um pretty much you know clear what it's what it's going to be done what's going to be done on it
>> then the door too this is the door >> well the door is a fiberglass door like that I mean that's fine Is that is that sufficiently specified here? >> The door fiberglass two panel vine lights >> carrot. >> So those are the only specifications
that I think we're concerned with >> siding wood shingle siding and >> y and then the roof the roofing material. I I guess I I just want to be clear in terms of my understanding is we want to be able to approve the project
>> so that there's eligibility for funding >> but because we don't have specific materials yet would that be monitor discretion or would that be you know I'll we can come back and discuss the
specific materials once they know like what what would be our >> Yeah. I mean, usually we we would require >> everything >> specific. I mean, you know, like we're we're really concerned about the
appearance and and um and um I I know you want to do what's similar similar to what's there already, but there's a lot of variation in what that means to different people. Mhm. >> So that's why we like to have, you know,
a specific window manufacturer, specific model of window. Um, same with the doors. Uh, the trim is, as as Bill said, um, PVC is probably going to be okay with the commission as long as it's painted, >> but we want to see that in the specs
that it that it will be painted. Um in in terms of of uh other aspects of the appearance um the uh you know the placement of of of that uh condenser the the heat pump
>> um would would be you know of interest to us. >> And uh the other thing about that is if there's going to be any any piping run on the outside of the building um we would we would discourage that. We'd rather see that piping run inside the building. >> Inside. So would I.
>> Yeah. Um but you know, generally it's, you know, we're concerned about about the appearance and the and the specific >> um windows and and and doors that that are going to be used. Uh the the roofing material, we we actually don't have
jurisdiction over that. Um >> what is specified? >> What's specified is architectural shingles. >> Oh, >> in black, I believe. Is it? >> The color is not specified. Um I think on the other >> does that mean >> the other one >> asphalt or Yeah. Asphalt >> just regular shingles. Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's what's there now. >> It's black asphalt. Yeah. Black asphalt. >> Yeah. >> Um so >> I guess I'm I'm just wondering given the circumstances >> how how do we get
>> Yeah. like how specific do we need to be? >> Right. We can we can approve with the condition that the monitors have or the chair and the clerk have the ability to >> or you know some something. So, it's
like a and I don't know if that's allowed, you know, to do a conditional approval so that um however master Chase can >> possibly either >> go get what he needs, but that once we know more about the specifics, then we
can approve. >> Well, let's talk about the timing for a second because you're not going to be in front of the CPC tomorrow. That's already been withdrawn, right? So, there's not as big a rush. >> When is the town meeting? Um >> I believe it's May process. >> May 15th, I believe meeting.
>> So you have between now and May to get your bids identified with the specifics. >> Well, we're kind of wondering if now is the time to start putting it out for bid or if it's a little too early. I have to get together with our new town administrator to discuss that. Um but
that obviously would require specifics, >> right? So these specs that we're talking about tonight could be part of your bid package. that has to be painted PVC, Marvin window, elevate, 9 over 9 or 12 over 12, like list all those things. The
type of cedar shingles, the type of door, and that is in your bid package, and then it comes back and you can come back in front of us with an actual bid that has those things and you would, I think, likely get an
approval because you're hearing what we would approve, right? So, >> I'm just um wondering if if we can get there tonight. >> If we can, that would be great. >> I mean, I I think you you raised a good possibility um that we could approve uh something for example, you know, the
door the door, you know, in this estimate, fiberglass, two panel, nine light. So, so we could approve that and then um we could give we're going to appoint two monitors um to keep track of your project.
>> They would have to approve um a specific choice. So, you would actually give us a catalog number, catalog cut, and and we would say the monitors would then say, "Okay, that satisfies um that that satisfies our concerns." But
but we want to know, you know, the the precise model of the door and window that you're using. >> Uh with the windows, um >> right, we we would want, you know, similar though. What could you propose some
>> Well, it would be if they're using a Marvin window. This quote is for a Marvin window >> and a Marvin window is a very good window. >> Um certainly expensive as well. Um and um that you would use the Marvin Elevate
with a SDL window sash which is pretty simple. >> Mhm. >> Um also uh it has 12 over 12 or not 12 over 12 but um whatever it is there. >> It's firmly 12 over 12. >> Yeah, it's 12 over 12. Now you said 9
over 9 would also >> it would and and it's less expensive. >> Yeah, less expensive >> to do the 9 over9. So that would be perfectly fine. >> So with just those things, I think we can go ahead. I think it's a good idea >> to do it that way and the monitors can certainly
>> um you know if we have if you have a question about it um resolve that. >> Yeah. I mean I think we've done work in the field but with the monitors that is as significant as this. So, >> right.
>> I I do have some questions about the ele elevating the building. >> Um, how many times in the last 10 years have the waters come up to the floorboards in the existing shack?
>> I can't actually answer that question. Um, I think one thing that is obvious regardless of what that number is, it's come close enough many times, I guess, is is is the best way I could put it. It gets closer closer.
>> I feel like it is a lot of extra money for the town or others to give. And while I do agree that um it's happening
um is it something that can be done 10 years from now where you know we handle the outside make it weathertight make it more comfortable with the you know the HVAC and then when the time comes raise the building accordingly as opposed to
trying to do it all at once and complicating a a lot of other factors that also increase um the money. >> I certainly would not object to that. It makes total sense. Um I hadn't considered that. I just to me it's kind
of all all or nothing is the way I've been thinking about it. >> Yeah. >> Um again, I I don't disagree with that approach. Uh I wish I had that magic number like it needs to be raised x amount of inches to prevent
>> flooding for so many years but it's anybody's guess >> right. >> What would your feeling be if we had a bad hurricane hurricane Carol is that >> well you know Mr. There are there are actually a couple of um actually there
are four large eyes that are sunk into concrete that are in the ground. >> And I believe it was Chip Gillespy's thinking that if we have an event like that, we could strap the thing down and
uh and just hope for the best. >> Uh that's probably all we could do at this point. >> Um I have a suggestion. This is too far out. But in Venice, they have solved the problem.
They put a rubber uh membrane underneath all the like they take up the floor. They put brand new tiles down in shops and that you would go into uh or hotel rooms that I've been in that have been on the lower floor, which is didn't they
don't do that very much. But what happens is that uh they have this rubber membrane. and they build everything around it, uh, up the sides. And then in the door, they have a stainless steel dam that they put across with little
clamps. It holds it. >> I mean, I've seen the water this high and, you know, above the floor and it's dry inside. >> Mhm. >> That building would probably float away. >> It would need to make it out of stone.
>> Yeah. >> Well, you know, Mr. Kendall, to your point, I I think some kind of moisture barrier under the building regardless of where we go, right, >> is is appropriate. >> Good. Good idea. Yeah. >> Um so I I don't see the um the raising
of the building on on the estimates here. Is that >> It is not part of the estimate, Mr. Chair. >> Do you think that would be an expensive part of the project? I mean, Katrina, you were concerned about the cost. >> I I really don't. And I'll tell you why. Basically, the electricity comes into the building. There's there's a huge
plug. Think of a a large shore power connection. >> That's the power that comes in that could literally be decoupled. The building sits on six concrete pillars. >> Mhm. >> So there are two rows of three and there are longitudinals that connect all of
them. So to raise the building would be fairly easy just to get something under there and hydraulic jacks to lift it up along those longitudinals. So I don't see that as a big uh financial burden. It also sounds like it could it's something that could be done later. I
mean if it is if it is that easy >> that could also be done later >> stage. I think one of the concerns that came up when you were presenting earlier was whether or not there's already rot under there that hasn't been tested yet. >> Well, as far so we had the we had the uh
the town building inspector down. That might have been before the last meeting before you folks. Um he did a cursory look and basically said you should probably find an engineering firm to inspect it. Well, you know, Rick and I have looked under it as well. Doesn't
take uh doesn't take an engineer to see what's under there. >> My read on it is that it's in fairly decent shape underneath. What is an issue is in the interior flooring, which obviously is not within the purview of
this discussion. Okay. >> Uh, so there may be some work to do inside on the the plywood floor, which is all it is, just plywood. >> Um, so I I I think the building that aside is in decent enough shape. Now, I
have to kind of uh add a little caveat to that. Anytime you go into a project like this and you start pulling shingles off, you don't know what you're going to find under it. Uh so we know full well that there could be other issues but those are interior structural matters at least in
my view. >> When was the structure built? >> 2002 I believe >> and it's plywood walls and >> yes >> it should be good
>> if they used Tyveck or something on it. >> Yeah. We just don't I don't know what's under it. Mr. I know that that's that's the big mystery really. U and the design was was um Gillespiey's right. >> Yeah, it was Chip Gillespie. I'm sure that the specs were pretty good then.
>> Yeah, I remember Chip. He was uh he was an engineer of some repute. So, um I'm sure it was built well. I guess my my perception too is, you know, if if there are rising waters, the harbor master
shack where it exists may not be the right location for it. M >> and I think that um you know spending the money to raise the building and if that triggers ADA additional costs and
and but in reality is that something that's going to happen in 5 years, 20 years and when it does um raising the building 18 in may not
actually be enough based on everything else that happens down the point. So, I I guess I just it it's a it's a shack. I mean, it's a garden shed. >> It it really is. I know it's a town
building and it's a town office and we get to make it comfortable and we get to be responsible, but I guess I don't want to overengineer and overbuild this building, >> right? >> But I'm I'm not sure this is within our purview. I mean, if if if we think it's
not appropriate to raise it, why >> I think it would be an eyesore to raise it 18 in >> and because the rising tide is going to happen. >> Oh, okay. Well, that's I mean that's
that would bring it I mean if if we think it it would be an eyesore, I mean that would bring it within our purview. Um how do other people feel about that? >> But all this could be raised in the future. I mean, you know, that thing is easy to raise up.
>> So, I would I would think about it as a future project >> if the problem is there. >> So, take the raising up of the shack off the table for this certificate. >> It makes it project so much more simple. >> Mark, you had some Oh, sorry, Caroline. Go ahead. >> If you were not to raise the building,
do you does that alleviate the problem of uh wheelchair access? I mean, at the moment, >> no. It's still not accessible. You still can't get a wheelchair in there. It's three steps up. >> But I mean presumably the fact that it doesn't have wheelchair access might be grandfathered in.
>> Yeah. It's already not accessible. >> Yeah. So I don't see that. >> We can take that issue off the table. >> Well, we don't know if he might have to face that when he goes to get permits because he's triggering ADA compliance in a town building. That's the issue
that he has to deal with. That's not really us. But but but doing less >> is more is is makes it more likely that you won't trigger. >> Yeah. Could be >> that provision. Everything else you're talking about doing it really is cosmetic. >> Y >> and I I would add to that, Mr. Chad.
Doing less and then doing the rest in steps I think is the logical approach to this. >> I'd like to take the opposite view. We had to raise we have a little boat house just just about the same size and we did raise it about 2 feet but it was in
relation to a pier that also is on the property and the contractor I asked well I was naive this was 12 13 years ago I was naive about it and the pier was being overlapped
fairly frequently but we did raise the pier and the boat house two feed and the water since that in the last dozen years um has raised significantly that we don't necessarily
see it if it's not vulnerable but um we now think maybe we didn't raise it high enough and the problem with not raising it now is that you're going to then uh both have the cost which would be much
greater uh broadly speaking, but you'll also have a situation where you probably won't do it until the the boat house itself is damaged by waters. And so we'll go through another rehabilitation as well as the raising.
So it's it's hard to think about this, but I think it would save money now and a significant amount of money later if if we raised it at this time. and be prepared. >> Mark, you you raised an interesting point and that is about the rest of the
about the pier itself and and you know in the long term something will have probably have to be done about that as well. >> Yeah. >> Um and so it may be that you know sometime in the future the pier itself gets raised >> built up and and then everything down there. >> Yeah.
It's a significant issue and the fill to make that all work and the retaining walls um are a major cost. >> Yeah. >> So, is it the right site? I'd also ask one question. If you're going to go and
have some sort of a motor and a lift and also um the condenser, is there sufficient power currently there? because that will be a budget item if it's not the case. >> I wish I should know the answer to that,
sir, but I do not. Um, there is a small panel inside the building. Uh, there is a a pole right outside of the building. So, I would imagine that that amperage could be increased either through
whatever means you know they would use for it. Um, but to answer the question, is there enough power inside the building right now to power both a chairlift and uh the heat pump? I think the answer to that is probably no.
So that would require some additional >> your budget. That's that's cautionary. So that something more worthwhile isn't cut to be able to do what we would like to do. Well, our our job is just to specify where he would install the heat pump on the exterior of the building.
How far up should he install it off the ground and hide any pipes that we build interior? So, do you have a recommendation on how high up >> he should install the exterior heat pump condenser? >> Well, you'd have to Yeah, if we if we
have a lift and not a ramp, then >> I'm just talking about the condenser that he is going to do. He's doing an HBAC. Sorry. >> He's doing an HVAC system. He's going to be putting in a heat pump, >> right? >> It's going to be on the exterior of the building on the west side. That's what
we discussed earlier. So, the question I have for you is how high up off the ground >> should that heat pump be against the building because we want to also protect the heat pump equipment. >> Yeah. >> 20 more in, 30 in. I I don't know.
>> They're pre-cast units that actually provide that. So you could you could do it just according to those. >> But we should have a range as monitors to know did we install it in the right general location. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Well, if you're going on peers for one thing, you're going to need stability
because the wind and the water is going to be a particular structural issue and if you want to go before the board, get approval. I mean, we're way out of our responsibility here, but all of those things need to be taken into account,
obviously. So, >> but to answer your question, I think I think you just use the pre-cast units >> and and uh because it's not an uncommon. >> So, you you said that it wouldn't be possible to put that unit on the north
side of the house because >> Oh, it it is possible, but it it but you would see it. >> You'd see it from the road. If it's on the west side, you're not going to see it from street view. >> You'll see it from the >> Could it go behind the portaotti? It could go behind the infamous water
pot. Yes. >> Because that's probably not going to go away, >> right? But my but again, my my original comment was if we can avoid that destroying that beautiful mural inside, I'd love to be able to say, "Okay, let's not destroy." >> Would you have to destroy it or could
you run the piping under the building to wherever you need need it to come into the building? >> I that's a good question. Um, I would hope that that's the case, but some of the other heat pumps that I've seen installed are somewhat invasive on the inter interior.
>> Uh, so there was just kind of an assumption that if it's on the north side, I will get destroyed. >> Yeah. Well, that'd be that'd be worth checking out, I think, because um it is kind of a nice view from the from the west side, you know, from the water.
>> That's the east. Here's the west. >> Yeah. Um, >> it's a beautiful view. Yeah, it's a nice view. Kind of nice to keep that that view from the water. >> Um, >> so is the recommendation to go for the north side if possible? Is that possible
recommendation? That's this plain >> very plain wall elevation. The north side. >> Do we need a >> on the inside go to the ground or >> is it raised off the ground? You know, where's the bottom? How far off the ground is the mural?
It it it goes down to the top of my desk, which is probably it. >> You could certainly have >> a heating unit put in that would be below it. >> And not >> I did rather recently in my living room
and you almost don't see it. It just looks like a radiator. you know, it's not something to put on the north side and then you can >> hide it on the interior. >> So, your preference, I take it, would be
to put it on the north side. >> My preference, >> I think that's very important. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, okay. Well, this um can >> we summarize the spec? >> Well, let's um let's uh let's open the public hearing because this does require a public hearing. So, the public hearing
is now open. >> Are there any comments from the public? hearing none, I close the public hearing. Uh, further comments, discussion from the commission. So, if I could just sum summarize where
where I where I think we are or or um leading is um is to um basically uh accept your proposal to um do like for like um where that will
mean u PVC painted PVC trim uh where you're replacing the trim. Uh it will mean um a um two panel where's here we go a two panel fiberglass
door with nine lights um particular model specific model to be uh approved by the monitors. >> Um and then replacement windows which will be Marvin Elevate windows. >> These are not replacement windows.
They're new windows. >> New windows. New windows. Yeah. Okay, Marvin, elevate windows uh either 9 over 9 or >> 12 >> 12 over 12. Um specific model to be approved by the monitors.
>> Uh and the um SDL glass. >> SDL glass. >> Okay. >> Simulated through divided light. >> Simulated. >> Okay. And then the final thing is is the um Yes, I have >> the heat pump uh to be placed on the
north side of the building if possible, otherwise on the west side >> or maybe monitored or review >> um reviewed by monitors. >> Did you say either 9 by 9 or 12 x 12? >> Yes. >> 9 over 9 or 12 over 12
>> for the windows? >> For the windows, right? >> And the heat pump on the north side if possible or west side if needed. >> Yes. And no, no exterior piping. >> No exterior piping visible. >> And shingles.
>> Uh shingles. Um just white cedar. White cedar shingles. >> They could use yellow cedar as well. >> White cedar or yellow cedar. >> It's better. Yellow cedar is much better. >> Okay. >> Okay. Little more expensive though. And
>> and as far as raising >> building, >> we'll take that off the table. >> Let's Yeah, it almost sounds like Mr. Chair, we should just kind of again take it in steps. That would be a >> table the raising of the building for
now. >> And the handicap access, that's kind of your hunt. We don't know what kind of waiver you might get or grandfathered in because you're not making a change to the the way you enter now. >> So you might be grandfather
>> our beautiful granite steps >> the granite steps as they are if you leave them. >> So we're not going to address the ADA issue. >> No, it's not our school. >> Okay. Any any comments on this
suggested list of um specs? >> Anything else? >> Motion to vote on >> I move to approve the certificate of appropriateness with this spec that we just discussed. >> I second it.
>> Okay, let's do a roll call vote. >> Katrina Strozek. I >> go I >> Deborah Chel I stuck. I William Kendall I >> Thompson I >> Carolyn >> Boulder I Okay. >> Thank you all. >> I love the building.
>> Anytime in the beginning of the summer >> I know that my subject get ready. >> Okay. >> We need monitors. >> Katrina, do you want to monitor with me? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Edi and Katrina Strozik are monitors.
>> So, uh, let me ask an obvious question. This certificate of appropriateness, will it have all the details that Deb just listed? >> Yeah, I wrote it on the back of the sheet, which is your application. I'm going to attach this to your certificate and submit that to the building department.
>> Okay. So, then we could use those specifications for the bid process. >> For your bid process. >> Yeah. Okay. And and we should we should have uh Bill sign that initial initial >> bill and others should sign this part and I'll add that. Bill, Bill Chase, the harbor master should should also
initiate this part of his application, >> but it's part of our approval. So, >> and then as monitors, we'll just help as you know things go out to bid and you get specifics, then we we can approve and if we're not comfortable, we can go to the chair, but we'll be able to do
that without having to come back here >> as long as it stays within, you know, what was agreed. >> Bill, can you sign the bottom of that? cuz that's part of your application now. >> All righty. >> And Bill Kendall is our window expert.
So if you have any questions about about windows um >> I mean that's probably I mean we specified that pretty well done. probably other possibilities too that could could be >> well there are there are but I think
that's a good choice as far as um price and so on >> and you can you know let us know if you end up with a different window and then we bring it in if we need to >> so >> or for some reason the price point is
you know oh my gosh these windows are crazy Marvin has tariffs you know or something then we can work with you to come up with an alternative Mhm. >> All right. So, I'll issue the certificate and get it into the um the online process and I can email you a
copy. >> Okay. >> Okay. And but the building department will have it. >> Well, if there's nothing else, thank you all. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> I don't remember. I did notice it. pay for the um public
wave a few town >> as long as they let us call. >> Okay. So, um I want to give this check too. This is for Richard as our next guest. >> Okay. Next next item is 1871 Main Road.
Richard D. Natali replace windows and cottage. Uh, good evening. Uh, my wife and I are here to get approval for the replacement of uh, the windows on the accessory building, the cottage at the rear of the house. And I think Garrett, you had a
chance to go over and take a look at it. I submitted plans my architect uh, uh, drew up. I sent them to Deb about a week or two ago. And we're looking to do like for like
on the windows right right now on the front uh which would be the east side of the of the uh building. You'll see that there are three over zero on the on the window. Oh,
trying to figure out why this speak is out of work. >> He's not replacing these ones. >> Guess it wasn't that. >> But those I think >> this is what you're planning to put in the the three three over ones. Is that >> Yeah, there's going to be like for like those are the ones that are there now. >> Okay.
>> Okay. And and I and depending I may not even replace those two front ones. >> Mhm. >> There are no >> one side is the front side. The front is the entrance. >> Entrance. Okay. The interior view of the front entrance. >> And that's going to be the main roadside.
>> All right. Just >> so you're replacing a window unit then. >> The whole unit. >> Yeah. >> So the as I understand you're replacing the windows on on the sides. >> There are no windows on the sides. >> These are just storms. >> They're just storms. >> Only storms. So there no windows. So
>> correct. >> Um so this is where the where the windows will be. Okay. >> And when those old windows were removed, I mean, what exactly? So, it it looks like they left the sill in in and I I
can tell you what happened. When we purchased the property, it was it was in July of 20 uh 2016 and the windows were there and it was you go in there, it was 110 degrees. I took the windows out because they don't
open. if they opened, we'd still have them. They were just one whole unit. And uh I decided that I didn't need them. I was just going to at some point replace them with with like forlike type windows. And 10 years later, I just never did. But now, since we're doing
the main house over, I want to do the accessory building the cottage over as well. So, the plan is to put uh like forlike windows in the side windows. They didn't have three over, but they were two over zero. >> And you you should see a photo there
because I found a photo that I took of the property in July of 2016. And you're going to see the existing windows that were there. >> Wait, >> they're not three over three. They're two over zero. They're not three over zero. They're two over zero.
>> Um, can you >> I I I can show you. >> Which one is that? the two over one. >> You can you can see >> Do we have >> I can tell you [Music]
>> I have your whole packet. Is that it? No. >> You can you can you can look you can have this. >> I don't see you have that one image that you're referring. >> There's three here. >> You can look at >> Just press those around.
Yeah, it's not online. Deb, >> I did a a packet to everybody. >> Yeah, it's not part of the packet. >> It's that wasn't in the package. >> No. >> All right. So, we've got it now. We're looking at them. It's two over one.
>> So, Richard, when you say you took out the windows, >> did you take just take out the sashes? It >> It's just a window. The whole unit. There's there's it the windows didn't open. >> They weren't they weren't double hung if that's what you call it. In other words,
the bottom doesn't lift up. >> There was just one gigantic uh unit, one whole unit. >> Now, if you look on the west side of the building, there's one window there, and it's three over three. >> And that's so there's three types of
windows in that cottage. When I when we purchased the property, you have the front was three over zero, the sides two over zero, in the back three over3. >> Sounds very Westport
>> in I'm sorry. >> Sounds very Westport. >> Yes. Yes, it does. In In the back was a double hung. It opened and it's still there. >> Mhm. >> But it doesn't match the front. >> Okay. So,
>> so what we're looking to do is, and I think I submitted it, the the the renovation on the on the on the main building, we're going to be using the Anderson 400 series. The uh uh double hung is going to be wood on the inside
and the wood fibers on the outside of the on the outside of the uh the window, which was already approved by the board last year at this time. >> Right. So you you're you were renovating your main house and and we >> Yeah. I Yeah. And that's that's Yeah.
>> That was approved last year, >> right? >> So you're going to use the same line. >> I'm going to use the same line and it's going to be like for like. In other words, you're going to see what you're going to see is the three over zero in the front, the two over zero on the
sides, and I'm going to change out most likely the rear because it's three over three. I'm going to make it similar to the front. And that's going to be uh three over zero. >> Yeah. >> Three over zero. >> So like for like
>> and um the store windows will will go away. Is that the is that the idea? >> You know, I I haven't thought about that yet. >> To be honest with you, >> they usually do go away because because of the new windows. Yeah. Yeah. You
know, I never I I just never thought of that yet. >> Yeah. And the insulation is better and you won't necessarily need >> and the whole idea is is you know we love having the windows open and we just couldn't do it in the other and you know
with the way it was set up before >> I think it's a good proposal. Um I have no problem with it. >> Thank you. I think it's well thought out and well presented and they'll match the house in their it's clearly going to match the
house in you know I'm still I'm still waiting to you want to know what's going on on the main house. I'm still waiting for uh uh uh proposals from two contractors. It's been a while. My structural engineer was hospitalized over the summer. So that kind of put
things in the back burner and once he came through was able to get the construction plans done and now I'm just waiting and one of the contractors suggested he said Rich you should do whatever you're going to do with the cottage the accessory building and that's what we're going to do going to
get it all done at once. >> Um motion to approve >> public hearing first >> public hearing is now open. Any members of the public like to comment?
Hearing no comments, I close the public hearing. >> Excellent. >> And um any further discussion motion? >> I think it's a good good proposal and it's it's consistent with the house, which is great to have that look across
that property. I think it's fun that you're keeping it like for like that you're not making all the windows the same and because it's part of the charm of that little cottage. So I I love that you're doing that. >> You know, one of the things the architect said is that the panes the
reason why they did that because I didn't quite get why they had three over zero on the front and two over zero on the sides. They want to keep the pains all even. >> I said, "Well, that makes sense." Mhm. >> So, and that's what I want to do.
>> Keep it even. >> Okay. >> Motion to approve. >> I second it. >> Okay. Let's do a roll call vote. >> Katrina Stros I. >> I. >> Deborah Chely. I >> stock I. >> William Kendall. I >> Mark Thompson I.
>> Carine I. >> Thank you all. I appreciate it. You can have the photos and uh >> Thanks. I I don't know if it's the same people that are going to be assigned to the major preservation >> monitors. I can look up who the monitors are for the other
>> same. I just did the monitors report >> tonight. Let me grab it. >> And then we need to sign his uh application to approve it. >> There was one other thing, Deb, and I and I think I included it uh was I was
thinking of changing the front door on that on that as well. >> Here's the front door. pre over this panel uh type. What What did you have in mind? You didn't put that >> and I and and I thought I put it on on the list and if I didn't
>> It's not It's not >> just about windows, but you can talk about it now. >> There's a storm door over it and there's three three windows across and I don't know how many >> I took a photo of >> I had I replaced the doors on the main
house. uh several years ago and the door we wanted to use the same door that we have on the side entrance to the front of that and it was approved before and and and I don't understand why.
>> Well, I don't have your other application. >> Yeah, it says possibly replace front entrance door style TBA in the application. Um let me see if I can find it. replace
front entrance door style to be approved. So what is that style? It's three windows across with I don't know. You can't tell me like panels there are storm doors. >> So it's just three across three
horizontal >> three or three lights. >> So would you would you put this door Richard? Is this the door that you would replace just like it? Yes, it I'm No. No. I'm going to show you.
>> Okay. >> I'm going to show you the door. I I >> It just says to be determined. It didn't actually have >> it. Did it? Okay. >> Y >> that's the door that was approved. Uh >> oh. For the main house. >> For the main house.
>> So, four like vertical a vertical and one panel across the bottom. >> Yeah. And I And I just mean, you know, maintain it. So it's not four. It might just be the two over two over zero. >> All right. So you have to give us that
door. >> Yeah. Why don't you show that show that to everyone? >> And and this is the door that was approved that we installed several years ago. Was approved by the board. >> Do you remember what year? I can probably look at look it up. I'm in the minutes. >> Um
>> it was like about a year or so ago within a year or so. It was another one. >> Oh, there were two applications. >> So, you don't want to do that door. You want to do >> it's it's going to it's I'm thinking a line of getting rid of the bottom one.
We maybe even just use that door. I'm going to talk to my contractor, but when I finalize it, I can send in the exact photo. >> Okay. So, we would like to approve you tonight. So, you should make a decision and so we can approve that. So then we can
you have to go for a change. >> Did she say she likes this door? She loves this door. >> So that will that will match the front door? >> Yes. >> And we already approved that door. >> You already approved this. >> So why don't you send me a picture of that? Email it or text it to me and I'll make it part of your application. Write
this up. >> We can't approve this withoutation. Right. >> Right. So So again, I think we'll have to have the monitor. [Music] I mean what whatever specific door you you choose um
>> the monitors will have to sign off on >> right >> so you're not wedded to that but you should >> it's work with us now yeah okay >> okay it's sent and and we and I still may leave that door on then >> okay you might not change >> I may not change it
>> you don't have to change it right to change it that's all I need >> okay so let's get this certificate signed off on so we know what we're Right. >> So, can um >> we should add add this um provision that
that the door must be approved by monitors because this we should probably >> redo the vote. >> Okay. Because we did not include the door in the original vote. It was all about the windows. >> So, we should probably just redo the
vote to include the door. Um, >> but I think it should say that the door is going to be >> the same door >> that is in the main house. >> Yep. If it gets changed, >> it says I'm looking I'm looking at my application said possibly replace the
front entrance door style TV. >> Well, instead of TBD, you can say consistent with the >> consistent. Exactly. >> Is it the front door of the house? The main house. >> It It's not the It's the door. Oh, the main house.
>> Side door of the main house. What? Is it west? Is it east? >> It's going to be on the east driveway. East side. >> Okay. Existing east door of main house. >> Right. >> Correct. >> East side of the cottage. But where's where's the door in the main house?
>> There's two doors in the main house. >> One right on main road is it's it's it's >> face. Yeah. And then the other one is the side entrance. You'll see it is the walkway coming up from the driveway. >> The south south side. >> No, it's going to be the east. You It's
You're right. >> It is the south side. Sorry. >> Okay. >> Okay. I can just cross that out. Okay. So, can we just repeat what door are we >> the door on the south side of the property >> on of the main house?
>> Main house. >> South elevation. Main house. door with what is it? Four windows over >> two over two. >> Two over two with a horizontal panel. Okay. I'll just have a picture of the door attached
to match the front door of the cottage. >> Correct. All right. So, let's sign off on this. >> Let's um I think Katrina is right that we should we should take another vote. So So do I do I um >> hear a motion to approve the um
application as amended? >> I should I'll make a motion to approve. >> I think Caroline Caroline moved. You can you can >> I can second. >> Okay.
>> Um Okay. Let's do a roll call. >> Katrina I >> Deborah Chel I >> Kendall I >> Mark Thompson I >> Caroline both are. >> Okay. >> So I'll send you a note on the monitors.
>> They were It was you and Bev Shook. >> So can you take Bev's place on that for both? >> Yeah. Okay. And can you sign off on the amendment? >> And I guess we should probably go through and make sure that Bev is replaced on
>> I did go through and I put um myself in some of them where she was without me and then I think um some of them have closed out. So >> I'll go through it again and see project. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And if you you you're welcome to put me in there. We can do a stroll. Do I need to sign off? >> Do you Can you just sign the bottom of this? So, we have your signature on. We have an amendment piece. I do.
>> Richard, I didn't see the date on the on the little house. When was when was it built? >> I think 1923, >> I think. >> Do you think the aliatory approach to to the windows was original?
>> I missed that. But there's I've never seen a house so small with so many different types of windows. >> I know. I haven't either. >> How long have you lived in Westport? >> Yeah. >> End of argument. >> No, I know. And I and I would have kept
the windows, but they didn't open. And it's just nothing nicer than having the windows open in the spring and the fall and the summertime. M >> I love the fact that you're keeping it um as differentiated as as you are. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. All set. >> If you want to step in a lesson on doors, Bill is going to educate us about doors. So, >> drive home to Boston. >> All right. See you. >> All right. Thanks for coming in. >> Drive safely.
>> Thank you very much. But I will I will watch it on I tell you I will watch it on the uh channel. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Good night. >> All right. >> Okay. >> So, I've got some handouts there for
Bill. >> Okay. Well, let's see. Um no applications for CNAs. No. Is that correct? >> Um no preliminary reviews, general business monitors reports. On the monitor's reports, I updated the
schedule and what I want to do is, as you said, make sure Beverly it doesn't have any remaining commitments. Katrina just volunteered to take over wherever Beverly was. So, we can continue that. >> And is that document on >> It's on the Google Drive. >> Google Drive. Okay. So, maybe we can
send a link to everybody. >> Oh, >> so that everyone can check. >> And also Caroline agreed to help do some monitoring too on the launch report. So, we're going to share the work to get everything >> great. >> That was done in 25 updated and maybe
start fresh at a smaller number of properties to monitor. >> Great. Great. Um, yeah. And it would be nice to have that stuff available online. >> Online. Great. >> So, so any of us can check. >> So, the updated report can be sent as a link. >> That's fine. >> Good. >> Do you want to do that?
>> Um, >> it's called delegate. Delegate. >> Send the link. >> Send the link out to the group. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, you might. I'm not. You might have to because you might be the only one to grant permissions. >> I might be. Yeah. Except
>> I might too. We I think we both can. Share the same drive, right? Because I think we can both >> using the historical commission town account. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. So >> although when I make a change, it has my name versus your name. So we do have
individualized tracks. >> So clear. Um so >> okay so now we arrive at the highlight of the meeting >> presentation by William Kendall on exterior doors in historic district
>> when you start. >> Okay. So, what I'd like to do is I have some pictures and these photos have been sent to you online, but um Deborah says they >> and not everyone could open them. >> They you couldn't open them. So, >> they were large files. >> I wanted to get them to you before the
the meeting, but uh she has made copies here and um >> I don't know where we are. >> You've got copies there. Okay. So the list of the door companies is among the the copies and then I just made you know
two on each page. So you have larger format ones though. So you should just direct us which ones you want us to >> Yeah. Okay. So um what I have is uh I want to talk about doors exterior doors. Uh I also like to talk about the concept
of the raised panel which is a style feature that the 17 houses built in the 1700s have. Uh and uh there's something here on door construction and also the different companies that um we can
suggest to people that make these doors. Some of the doors are actual authentic reproductions. Others are one is a fiberglass and then I have a drawing here that's also been sent to you of a
very good new construction of the door. So, one of the problems we have is that um people come to us and they they want to put in this door right here >> and we have to reject this because it's
either a metal door, one of those stamped metal doors that's stamped out of a piece of sheet metal or it's um uh fiberglass. But what's wrong with that door is the the panels are too small. It's all to do with the proportion
>> because they didn't make doors that way in the 1700s. >> This is a reproduction that is absolutely correct of a door made by one of these companies that make reproduction doors.
>> Look at the difference >> there. This is the Let's see which >> So there's the difference. And so I I think when people come in, if we have these these photos, we can show them why >> we would not approve that door.
>> Uh I also have the third photo of um what what appears to be what I think is actually a thermot >> fiberglass door. >> Oh, that's the sort of maroon colored one,
>> right? And if you see the moldings are a little different on that. They don't quite make it. I mean, they're not reproduction doors, but they are that's a new material that is very durable and I think acceptable
um as a substitute. >> Better than the stamped one, but not quite as deep a groove as the true. >> Well, and there's an extra molding on here as well, but still that fits into the Greek Revival period on other doors. So, it's it's fine.
>> And uh you notice that the panels are the right proportion. >> Bill, can you see it? Because I don't think we have >> Yeah, they're there. The magenta. >> The purple one. He's talking about the purple one now. You have it. >> It's on the same page as the orange door. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay.
>> Okay. So um that we have approved that door before but we have to be very careful to specify the right one because the company is thermotue and they make um different series >> and this series is the class classic craft door and uh it's their best very
good quality >> and u so I think we can recommend that door >> that's good. >> So that's thermal truth. Now we have another company. >> Bill, is it clad? Is it a clad door? Like a fiberglass or what's the outside? >> I don't know. It's It's got a core of
something and it's got insulation inside and then it's got this this fiberglass >> coating on, you know, I think it's probably formed fiberglass painting, >> but it's the right um proportion. That's the That's the main thing. And that's
why we just cannot allow that first door that I showed you in the district. It's really offensive. >> And do you know >> So I'd like I'd like to get the the names of the manufacturers here. Is this So So this one the first one you said was appropriate. >> Um which is
>> Well, it's any of these people who make this architectural component. >> Yeah. They're in the company section. >> Uh I called um Green Mountain Windows. >> These are the window companies, but they're also mill works. So they make these doors.
>> The other doors are a good one is Simpson. That's a standard door that you see. >> Uh and now it's true style. >> Now this is true style. Now this is the latest thing. If you have your you can look at the details there. This is the
latest thing in Dors. Um True Style is a company that is from I think it's from Oregon. It's been around for a long time. And Marvin has just purchased this company. >> Oh. uh it and they make a door that's has a
construction quite similar to some of the windows we've talked about. As you notice, it has a core of a koa, which is that processed uh wood. Uh and on the outside there's a layer of tririccoa
which is a hardened version of uh a koa that is uh really just laminated onto the surface. And you can see the construction of the um panel and everything else. The molding is not quite correct here but it's certainly
acceptable and the panel is raised enough. It isn't that metal door look >> stamp. So, uh, that's >> And then this gets painted. >> The store gets painted. >> Painted. >> It says paintable. Painted. >> Yeah, you paint all of these doors.
>> And they hold the paint very well. Okay. Now, I have some materials I want to show you. Um, just to give you an idea of what these doors are about. [Music] Um,
here is a door, piece of door. 18th century. >> Um, could you pass that around? I'm going to pass it around. Yeah. And a piece of this door here. That's two panels. Um, uh, it's very interesting. The
exterior door is made the same way as the interior door. >> Absolutely the same way. So, there's an interior door. >> This is an interior door. Now the raised panel in the 18th century was
the fashion. The houses that were built in England had raised panel walls everywhere. Now when they got to this country they also wanted to have raised panel. Now
prior to this in the 1600s they didn't. They had flat panels and that was because they were Chacobian style and they had a different vocabulary of moldings. This molding they did not use that little that's an oval molding here.
The ovelope that's always used on that's the correct molding for that door. Uh and um if when you get into the early part of the 1700s, you start seeing this paneling appear in this country as they
the style changed and the panel at first is very heavy right there. As you see that panel sticks out. So the the real reproduction door there has that heavier panel on it. Uh, and
um, oh, interesting enough, this is the original paint. >> Original brown paint. >> Yeah. >> So, that'd be like 1715. >> Uh, then we have this panel,
which is now um not quite as raised and pronounced as that, >> but that is typical of 1750. So, um, this paneling then I want to show you
this is another photo I have. Oh, the construction of the door. This is this is Oh, this is the later panel. See that? It's not as pronounced >> after 1750. >> This is this is probably 1780 or even
even getting closer up there. >> They're getting flatter. >> 1800. they get flatter and then eventually they become flat panels. That would be up into the um federal period. This is Georgian colonial. Prior to that
was Jacobian. And then we get up into federal >> and so the panel changes. Now what was the reason for the changes? >> Style. Pure style. So you have a whole 100 years of raised panels. And I want
to tell you, you every house you went into in the 1750s had walls of this paneling. >> There it is right there. And look at it. Oh, wonderful. >> So, in the district, there are walls of
paneling. And that's what I'm talking about, trying to make sure people understand. You just don't take that out and throw it away. >> Now, the doors, you see, are made the same way. interior doors all match the paneling of the inside. Now, in 1750,
you would find the fireplace wall, which is a feature wall. Now, right there, uh you can see there's the fireplace with all of the panels across the whole wall. Now, you would also find ways coating, which is around like the chair rail,
Wayne's coated, all range panel, and you would find interior panel shutters. They've used shutters on the inside. So you got paneling all over. And um this paneling was used upstairs
in the bedrooms, all bedrooms and downstairs wherever you had a fireplace wall. So you can go into these little capes around here and find this paneling. You uh simple farm houses out
in Westport will have this paneling. Now, here is an example of what is in and I'll pass these around cuz that these are you can have them there, but these are better photographs. >> Yeah, yours are bigger.
>> This is in a house in Westport that's being renovated. >> It's here. >> Uh the people are saving. This is upstairs >> in a bedroom. >> And you can see it has a little mantle shelf and the panel. Uh, and um,
>> sometimes the bedrooms had even more formal paneling than the parlor and even had even had cupboards, corner cupboards. Now, >> this is from the parlor of that same house.
Now, this is a very large panel. >> Is that in a bedroom? >> Downstairs. >> Oh, yes, Point. >> Yeah, somewhere we have it. Yeah, I think you have it there. >> I think he said westward. I don't know if it's at the point.
>> Yeah. So that that is downstairs and that's all original to the house. And um uh often you would be you would want to look underneath that, scrape some paint off of it because often there were paintings under the be nice to see a
ship painting in that. >> Be very nice possibly. Those are the original fireplaces, too. They've been preserved. Um. Oh, okay. I want them. >> They're very shallow. Those fireplaces are shallow. Didn't they worry about
those that wood panel and catching fire? I mean, >> no, they didn't. They didn't worry about that. I have to show I show you one more thing before I forget. Here, the exterior door is made by taking an interior door,
>> right? I have my hand. The interior and sandwiching it together. >> Great insulation. >> They would put and you had a This is all the wood is 7/8 of an inch thick >> because all the wood is
see those marks. >> Mhm. >> That's a water powered saw. It goes up and down. All the wood was cut on a water power saw and there were mills everywhere and it was always cut to 1 in
thick and then planed down to 7/8. So you have a door that's not too thick. The exterior door is only that thick. And the way they put this together is that they would use a hand rot nail. Of course, the nails are made by hand and
they have sharp points. And when you nail that in, you nail the two together and then you bend it over on the back side. It's a clinch nail. And then you, it's so sharp, you bend it into a little staple. And then you pound it down and
it goes right in. And if it's against, it's with the grain, it just goes right into the wood, you don't even see it. >> So often you would have just plain boards on the back or you would have panels on the back. I've seen most most of them are just plain beaded boards on
the back of the door. >> The house I grew up in was built in 1720 and we had what they call a tomahawk door >> as our front door. >> So the um in it was I don't even based on what
you've described it must have been like prejacobian because our the panels inside our home they were just big slabs of wood. They weren't there was no fancy >> milling just it was just huge boards
like tree trunks. The the wood floors and the wood panels on the >> we um you know and underneath was horsehair but the panels were just these big slabs of wood. Um, but the the door, they called it a tomahawk door because
the grain on the outside went this way and then when they put the second door in, um, they put the grain in going the other way. So if the house was attacked in an Indian raid, the tomahawks
wouldn't be able to get through the doors very easily. >> So they called it a tomahawk door. >> Wow. >> Okay. So >> I know it was built I think it was built 11 years before the last Indian raid. So they were serious. >> Where was this?
>> Uh I grew up in Rutland, Massachusetts. >> Yeah, we don't have many those earlier houses here because they were burned down I guess. >> Um so this is about you know 1750 or so. So in that same house on in the corner
the the f paneling is here and then right here you have a corner cupboard and that's original 18th century about 1750. And you notice that it has pyers pileers the here fluted pyers very nice
very very delicate very nice woodwork. Notice if if you look at your photos, the sh the shelves are shaped and there's a barrel back in it. >> And these are all in Westport. Correct. This is a renovation recent renovation in Westport. >> Which part of Westport?
>> Well, it's we know the house, but I don't think I could I don't want to mention it's the point or >> Yeah, on the point. Yeah. >> Um and so, but if you look at this carefully, >> you will see that this pilaster has been cut off. Mhm.
>> Look at that. Yeah. Okay. Why is that? >> Well, the houses were plank framed, which means that they simply had, and I have a photograph of that right here, plank frame.
This is a house in Westport Point, and it has vertical planks. >> So, they had no studs in the walls, >> right? They just had those boards that were nailed down through the sill and up to the plate
>> and and um the shingles applied on the outside of that and on the inside and I got a picture of this and this is very important. Interesting. >> That was on the inside.
>> So that's how the people lived. That's the original paint >> a decoration. >> Yeah. >> From the 1850s or so. >> That's pretty neat. >> It's done. What I looks to me like it's done with a pine cone. >> Yeah.
>> You definitely see a pine cone. >> Pine cone for sure >> for decorative purposes. But wasn't that going to get covered over anyway with more? >> Wasn't that eventually going to get covered over on the inside or they would >> They live that way. stand
really a plant the plant frame house all it is is >> planks on and through it >> shingles on the outside and boards on >> it's cuz it's cuz the shingles on the outside were taken off >> and this this unpainted board here is that something that's been sistered later on
>> been put in later when it's been re you know they stuttered the walls out so as way of saying the reason this got >> the corner cupboard here got messed up and destroyed is because they stuttered the wall out and they had to cut the
they had to cut the pile. >> What a shame. But understandably, let me get some insulation in there. >> When you set out the wall, you lose a lot. You lose a sense of the framing too, the corner posts and everything else. And even the proportion of the room changes. Um, so you don't like to
have it stuttered out. You want the original plaster wall. Um, so this kind of thing, there it is. Uh, and houses, that's what
they look like on the inside. And sometime they were very primitive. And I've seen this actually. I had a house that was like this, but prank frame. And it had wallpaper on top of the boards.
That's all it had. And so later is a wallpaper war on it. >> Not much insulation. >> No. >> So that's how I want to see the picture. Okay. >> We would like to >> Okay. Here. Okay. I'm sorry these pictures aren't very good. Uh but um
>> you can see what that's it. That's my discussion. Any questions? >> Really really neat. >> Presentation was excellent. >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. And I love that we have the, you know, the doors so that if somebody,
>> you know, I mean, not so much for the for, you know, Richard's Cottage, but as other um homes are um need new front doors, we have a a good list that we can recommend. And, you know, it's it's
great depending on the style of that home, like what year was that built? So, we would guide them to that style. There's one more thing. As we get up into the later 18th century, the focus becomes on the mantle. >> And so we have these beautiful mantels
and sometimes an overmantle piece. >> But then the um paneling is out of fashion very quickly in the federal period. A flat panel comes in flat panel doors. Moldings change dental moldings
and a lot of more delicate moldings and a lot of plaster. And they would plaster over the panel walls. >> And so you go into many of these houses, you'd never know there's a panel wall underneath. You start probing and you
pull off some some laugh that's nailed right to it and you find beautiful paneling underneath. >> Wow. >> Just felt what was out of fashion like that. >> Wow. >> Uh Bill, how did you get into this? >> How did you get into this?
>> Oh, I used to I'm an expert at this. >> I would say so. >> That's what I've done. >> How did you get these these samples these cuts? from the things that I've I collect these >> is an expert >> from houses I've worked on and things >> but I am just
>> never throw anything out >> curious >> yeah I I used to uh I used to um not restore houses but I was a I taught architectural history and art basically I'm a painter so uh but I also
was interested in early American architecture and so I started a company where I was uh you know I would do the the specifications on the um historic restorations. >> So was it happen?
>> No, I lived in Bridgewater then by the college. I taught at Bridgewater State University. >> That was a great presentation. Thank you. >> Do you have a website? >> Only for my painting. Yeah. Not for this.
>> I'd love to see see the painting. >> Well, yeah. William Kendall uh paintings. >> I know that. >> And Bill, maybe I can work with you to to get these um digital photos. >> I have sent them to me. Did you not get them?
>> Yeah, but they're they're not um >> not high enough. >> No, they're Did you actually manage to open a photo? >> I opened all the ones. Yeah. I mean, I I was able and and see them. >> Yeah, I sent them around. Yeah, I know you sent them around, but I I tried to open it and and it told me that um
>> they're two-part files. Do you have a Do you have a really old Mac? >> No, I had >> I can send them to you. I just load them on. >> I just sent them to her from my iPad. >> Yeah, I'll load them up on the >> The door the doors are on the drive already. >> Yeah, they're already on there. >> Um
>> the doors are on the drive. Well, I think it's >> I don't I don't see the interior ones, but >> the zip file I I was able to open it, but the files that were in the zip file were not >> they weren't accessible once they were >> they were um half of a Apple double
file. >> Oh no. >> And they compression ruined them. >> You mentioned >> or the other half might have been hidden and didn't get incorporated compression. >> We'll work on it. Well, because it'd be
nice to put put some of >> Well, I thought we have a phone. >> I think maybe not. >> It was years ago with what's his name? >> There is one you called me. >> The drive, >> but I'd like to put them on the on the
website. People can actually windows, doors, paint, whatever. >> 50 years. >> Could you get up to the second floor? >> Disclaimer. I'm not making >> there was a high renaissance revival wallpaper on
>> do you need a motion? >> I just want to say that yeah if you could do this with the photographs because I think u having them some kind of archive that keeps records of what what is in the district. We haven't done that >> with interiors but I think something
like that's really important because of course that's covered up now. >> Yeah. >> But it's there. >> Yep. Yeah. >> Do you have any of your material on slides? It'd be great to have you do the Westport Historical Society.
>> Yeah, I just I don't think I want to. >> Okay. >> I have a whole bunch. Yeah. >> Any uh any other topics? Okay. Um I hear a motion. >> Do you want to mention that date of your next meeting is not going to be Wednesday? That's right. Thursday. >> It's Thursday, February,
should say February 5th. in this room. >> And it's in this room. And is there no one else in this room? >> As far as we know, >> officially there's not. >> Okay. Great. Motion to adjurnn. >> Is there a second?
>> I second. Second. Okay. All in favor? I. I. All >> oppose. >> Great meeting. We are >> ajourned. Say this was a Westport