of November 3rd. I don't think we have those. >> They haven't been produced yet. >> Okay. Okay. Um so the next item is the treasures reports. I am the treasurer. Um I do have a report this month. Um
>> general expense account $2,168. Um town farm expense account was not reported to me. Uh trust funds, WHC trust fund, $21,754. Uh the town farm trust fund has $31,760 and the Wolf Court school trust has
$9,294. >> Do I hear a motion? >> I move to accept the treasures report. >> I second. >> Okay. All in favor? I >> I >> opposed. Motion passes.
>> Okay. Um Okay. So, um applications for certificate of appropriateness 1878D drift road. Uh Charlene Brock is presenting um solar panels on a roof.
So, what materials do we have? >> Um, we have, you have something in front of you from Sunun. This is their array that they'd like to install. >> And then I sent everyone the site plan
that was created by Sunun, which is a screenshot of the GIS maps relative to other homes. And then the other uh one picture they sent was just one photograph from the front and it's not
really clear how it relates to the other properties nearby. So I think we have the applicant's going to show us some photographs because we did not get any in advance. >> Yeah. No, someone maybe I I'm 85. Please excuse me. >> No, it's fine. I can't get this array to
fan out. No, I think I I think I have them on on my laptop. >> Oh, did they send them to you? Because that's I've been counting on them sending you everything. And so you have more information from them than you'll ever get from me. They don't understand it all.
>> Is she plugged in? >> Can can they hear? >> Uh this I haven't anything said anything yet that's worth hearing about. about this. Oh, you can give it You can get a big
ch. >> Oh, good. Yeah, you could just click on it and open it up. Yeah, >> actually this is a very good job. >> So this is the one picture that they did send me which is a very you know just an image of
one perspective and it's the front if you guys can see. >> Yeah, I I think that the the important thing to start with is where where this house is. I think that that's um and so >> is I have this picture of the entryway.
Do you want to have this up? >> So So I have this just this is the assessor's map. Um so so this this house Okay. So I'll I'll I'll show it to this side and then to the other side. Um, so,
so here's 88 and um, are >> you show he's going to do yours? >> Here's Main Road and and there's this complex of houses back in in this area which is accessed by a private road. Um, and the house in question is
I'm actually not sure is is it this this one or this one? It's the first house on the right coming out of the woods >> as you're coming uh from I think this is the wooded area. So, it would be I think this one, but that looks too big. It might be this one. This one here in the corner there. Pretty sure.
>> I think it it's it's identified on the map. >> Not so important, but it's it's it's it's one of these two houses. Um if we need to nail it down, we can. Anyway, it's um Yeah. So, so in principle it's it's
visible from 88 if all the vegetation were gone. Um there's there's a there a lot of there's a lot of vegetation here now. So I think you can't actually see it. Um and similarly for main road um there's quite a bit of vegetation here. You can see it uh from this corner of
drift road. You can look across barely see the cottage. Okay. So that's where it is in relationship to the one that we we approved last Yeah, Martha Slate's house is right there. So, you see it's quite a bit
closer to the road. >> So, Mark needs to see an explanation. >> So, do you want to um >> Yeah. So, this is an enclave that's that's accessed from lower drift road, which is
a private road. But here's 88. So assuming there was no vegetation, you could look across and see these houses. And she's in this little group here. >> So that's why we have jurisdiction, but you can't actually see the house. >> It's on drift road. >> It's on lower drift road. Is that that
turn off as you come up? >> Can I speak to the Can you see? >> Yeah. Why don't you tell the microphone? >> Yeah. Um, well, she's gonna present. So let's let her do that. >> Is this on? Does this work? Can you hear it, Daddy? I don't know what to do.
>> It should be on. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I I'm Charlene Brock and I'm trying to do solar panels on my house at unit D of the of 1878 Drift Road. Lower Drift Road is not on the GIS of the town
hall. And someone the town um uh highway man uh asserted that that is not a public road. Someone here thought it was a public road. It has never been. I We bought our house in 1989. It is it is a private road and it's a my house is a
quarter of a mile from the entrance uh on Drift Road and it is the when you're when you're in that road, it's the first house on the right and Sally Hardy's house is on the left. So my house is less visible from uh the highway than
Sally Hardy. So, how you seeing uh from the highway Sally Hardy's house, you cannot see it from anywhere on Drift Road and you cannot see it from >> the part of Drift Road that goes up by the cemetery in the church and the high the uh
Austin from the highway department said he would send Did you get that? >> Yeah. So, we're all clear. >> It does not as far as we maintained it. We pay for everything on that. >> Yeah. Let me just clarify something. Our jurisdiction covers private roads. If
the private road is visible through >> vegetation, if the vegetation was completely gone, the road would be visible from the >> It never would be. It's woods. >> Well, okay. But I'm the jurisdiction that we have is if there's no vegetation. That's why we are still
considering this. That's that's the way our bylaw works. We have to consider no vegetation. That's why this is in our jurisdiction. It's not that it's a public way or private way. >> Okay. The language that I got in some email was that they were calling it a private road.
>> I think that's just a confusion. >> That needed to be clarified. >> And maybe there was a little confusion about that se segment of drift road. >> Mhm. >> Which um you might think would be called lower drift road, but it but it's not. Lower drift road is not
>> I think there's there's no question that lower drift road is >> doesn't exist. We agree. >> Oh, good. >> But your house is visible from Drift Road from 88 and slightly >> What part of Drift Road?
>> Um well the corner by um where it makes a turn. And remember >> that's not my house. That is unit C >> that you can see from the cemetery. So we're imagining that there's no vegetation. >> No. Is is that house blocks it?
>> No. I I could see your house from >> He did it today. >> I walked there today. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, I I think you shouldn't get too >> Let's not caught up in this because we are going to talk about your project, >> right? >> Not withstanding the fact that we can see
>> the road thing. I I'm focused on the road thing because it was so >> It's okay. It's okay. Let's keep going now. >> Right. Um Okay. So um but but I think the point is that the house is it is barely visible >> barely visible
>> um from uh from from any public way you know especially given the existing vegetation if if um you know everything were cut down which is quite unlikely then then it would be more visible but it's still it's still not right next to any any
public >> it's it's several acres of dense woods. >> Yes. Okay. So, um, yeah. So, let's let's talk about the the project itself. >> Oh, excuse me. I managed to get this one now, too. If that How do you want me to
do it? >> We have that picture. >> Yeah. >> So, you want to show it to the others? I guess that's that's the that is 1878. That's the entrance to this the disputed private road. >> It's not disputed. We've read >> you agree it's Yeah. Well, I thought
that's what you thought. Okay. And then this is the design. Um, now you have this too. >> We have that design and there's and there's a picture of the house itself here. >> This is the how the array of solar panels would go where the panels are.
>> The panels are going here. Can can I just >> Sean, can I just um confirm with you that this picture of the actual house? >> Yes. Oh, let's see. Is that >> that the panels? >> That might be my Yeah. If you could just point out where the panels will go on
this photograph that was submitted to us. >> Yeah, apparently they will go even on the roof of the porch. I was astonished because they said it's sufficiently strong for that. >> So it would but it'll be on the front because this that would be this is where
the sun is. That is facing sun. So, um, >> Dar, >> okay. This is the house. That's the south south facing side of the roof. >> Okay.
>> And then, uh, I think there was another picture here. >> Yeah. I mean there there is a diagram here you can see >> that's >> yeah we have here >> okay so we know where the house is um we
know where the panels are going um um but let's let's open a public hearing so public hearing Now open. Any comments from the public about this project?
Hearing not opposed the public hearing. Discussion among the commission members. >> Um the only comment I would have is in other projects that we've approved in this same neighborhood. We've asked the homeowner to consider the roof material
to be a darker material. This is clearly a light gray and these panels will be more visible than the neighbors panels because the other neighbors have put either asphalt shingle new asphalt shingles and in one case I think they painted their roof. I don't know how
that works but they did agree to go darker. So this is the first one we've seen now where it's prominently in the front of the building and there's no indication that the roof material is going to change before these panels were installed. So, if you would comment on that, that would be >> It's a new roof, so it's
>> brand new. So, there's no chance you're going to change that roof. You just put it on. >> Well, yeah. I wish we could just paint it. >> I don't think you want to paint. >> I don't think you can. >> Can you paint a roof? That's not >> You could put some tar on it. Something
like that. >> Well, that doesn't affect it structurally. I guess I'd go with that if it just start ripping down the walls or something. People put coverings on roofs in Bermuda and uh places like that just to
>> What is it? They put >> um like a cement uh the roofs that don't have shingles on them. They're all kind of covered tiles with cement over them. >> So that doesn't painted white or whatever color they want to paint. >> That doesn't sound functionally very
>> well. It collects water and then they use in systems because they don't have lots of water sources. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's close to the water. I I have the feeling that cement would be an
unhappy combination on the roof, but that's a technical question to answer. >> Question from >> um >> Oh, sure. Come on over. You want to see the pictures? >> No.
Um Betty Slade um there also is this concept of discernable that you have used and I'm wondering um will this will the difference in coloration be discernible if there wasn't from how many is the distance so great would it
be discernible if there were no trees >> in terms of seeing the building at all you're saying because we >> on the roof We did approve the Windward way roof panels, the solar panels that did not have roof. >> That's not a public way. So, it's not
subject to the same rules. >> Okay. Um, you want to join us? >> Yep. Sorry. >> By the way, I forgot to say at the at the beginning of the meeting who's present and who's voting. >> Um, so Katrina, are you okay with being
a non- voting member today? Because we have eight. We can't eat uh workers. >> Uh sure. >> Um so um so present in voting are um Caroline Wolter, Timothy Bryant, William
Kendall, Garrett Stock, Deborah Chel, Ward Moody, and Mark Thompson, and Katrina Strozik is also present, but may not be voting because we had >> too many >> too many too many members. Not too many, but we have
>> Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. Um, okay. So, um, yeah, back back to the back to this issue. I mean, to answer your question, Betty, I think I think it would be discernable um, you know, if you could see the house, but you can you
can barely see the house from any public way. Now the panels themselves um we have we have okay with panels that have a matte finish and do not have the
metal edging. That's is this what we're doing here? This >> seems to be the Yeah. So this is it doesn't seem to have any model series. >> Okay. >> Okay. So that >> Yeah.
seems to do that. >> I'm not sure it's the same. >> It's not. The other product is different. So, we're not really sure, but it looks like they're not those ones with the window pane. >> What What I mean is it's matte. It's not
a shiny shiny. Um, it doesn't >> main road. It's a drift road. Comes around the cemeteries right here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The frame is black anodized aluminum alloy. So, >> you hardly see that to help shine.
No, you can't. >> Some of those houses. >> Um, >> all right. >> Other other comments from Commissioner [Music] >> comments. >> Other comments. >> Uh, how visible is it?
>> Well, that's the thing. I mean, I I uh I walked I walked along main road today. I walked um down drift road and um I really had to look hard to even figure out which building it was. Yeah.
>> And and and I and and and those views, I mean, the views from Drift Road are from the north, so you wouldn't see the the panels on the south side anyway. It's it's very tough to actually look at the buildings as you're driving on 88. So just lifts and these things are not going away,
>> right? >> Uh and the house is what built in the 1940s >> 50. So >> you know it's unfortunately it's a fact of life and it's not on the main street which obviously would have a greater uh
visibility. I'm okay with it. The other thing I want I want to just mention is all the neighbors were notified of this hearing and we haven't heard anybody object to this and I think that's probably the most >> sensitive is the neighbors themselves and there's no one objecting.
>> Well, they're going to see it from within >> and they're going to see it every day. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> So that's a factor because the other ones that we consider are are on public ways which is a little bit >> you see them popping up all over the place on country woolands. You've got them. That's a great example of like
that's not particularly attractive, but they're not going away. And further up on main road, you see it on the road. >> Um, >> is it on the main home or is it on the main and it's visible on the front porch? >> It's I couldn't see the main
>> the panels would be on this part, which is the front of the home, but the home itself is in a very protected area. So >> did I don't know you you came in after we were looking at a map but did you look at the assessor's map >> that's what I'm looking at now.
>> Oh >> that's there's a there's an area you can >> show indication of where it is in relation to other homes. It's right around that >> so it's is drift road a private way. It
is that lower drift road is a private. >> If it's not visible from main road then I think it would would be a CNA right? No, because because it >> because without vegetation it's clearly
visible from 88 from D road possibly from so there's no question about our jurisdiction and whether a line >> yeah it's appropriate to ask for CA so that we're considering it as a
certificate appropriateness >> where it cuts down all the trees all really >> I think the one thing that you could say in favor is the proof itself is a very low angle >> so it will not be presenting itself in
an inefficient way. This looks to me as though it's closer to an effective angle for reception >> for the sound but It doesn't seem to present itself
as a sign. >> All right. >> I'm sorry. I could I really couldn't hear what said that. >> Well, the angle of the roof itself is not very great. So the presentation of
it will not be like this full >> panel showing it's more laying down just thinking in terms of all the criteria that you have to look at and none of them are just burning hot saying no they
all seem to be allowing some >> some tolerance. >> Yeah some bit of tolerance. Okay. >> Well, um, do I hear a motion? >> I move to approve the solar panels. >> Second.
>> Okay. Let's do a roll call vote. Starting with Mark. >> I approve. Thompson. >> Mark Thompson. I >> Rene. >> I. >> Deborah Shelby. I >> Jared Stuck. I >> Timothy Bryan. I
>> Caroline Ber. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Well, thank you. It's a lot to absorb and I appreciate it. And I don't think I Well, I gave you all this stuff remotely, but I have the person who was going to come with me who could have answered your questions, too.
>> We've been corresponding with someone. >> He called me at 5:00 and said he couldn't come. >> Yeah. And we've been corresponding with them, Katie and Brian. So, you had all of them. >> We're in contact with them. So, what's going to happen next is your certificate will be issued tomorrow and it'll be sent to the building department so they
can finish their permit process. They've already begun the permit process and building department was waiting for this meeting. So, now that can be completed. >> Uh, so then do you send it to me? Do my principal? >> You'll have a copy too, but >> my principal do you have my This is >> Do we have your address per the um
application? >> That should be I hope it is. Oh, >> I can tell you. 180 Washington Street, Newton, Mass. because I don't get >> No, you put on 1878 Drift Road. So, if you want to send it to my principal, I don't I'm not here at this time of year.
>> Do that. I'll get your address. >> It's truly a summer house. >> I have your email. I'll get your address and send it to you. >> All right. I'll do that later. >> I can do it by email with you. >> Oh, by email. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Thanks. >> Before you leave, um we need monitors.
>> We need monitors. would like to be a monitor each project. >> Um, any volunteers or monitors? >> Ward, do you want to monitor? >> I'll be happy to be a monitor. >> Ward will monitor. Mark, do you want to monitor? >> Just need more than one. >> You need two, but you and Ward can share
the responsibility. >> Great. Okay. >> Y So, what does that mean? So what that so so the monitors are are people who sort of keep an eye on your project is wonderful
>> and and what you need to do is is um let us know when work is about to start and you can do that with a with an email to to Deborah and um and then uh you let us know if anything
comes up in the in the in the middle of the project that that might require change >> and then you let us know when when the project is Okay. Because I won't be in residence and so I will be monitoring it remotely just as the but I'm in close contact with the people.
>> Yeah. Well, let your contractor know. They should know that they need to let us know when the project starts, when it ends, and if they're >> Maybe they contact you directly. Should So, what's the contact for them? Do they have them? >> We have them, too. We have their emails. >> Yes.
>> You'd be contacting them. They >> Brian and Katie. Yes. If you your monitors found something they wanted to they would contact the the uh contractors directly so and but maybe tell me to what's going on then. Okay. >> Yeah. >> So we should get ward.
>> That's very nice to sign on. >> No. Do you don't need me to stay? >> No, we're all set. >> We're good. Thank you. >> I guess I'm next. >> Uh, yeah. on this. >> Hi, I'm Ivon Bar from the Westport
Historical Society. >> Wait, wait a minute, Ivon. Um, so the next item on our agenda is um uh renovations, preliminary review, renovations to Harbor Masters building. >> Oh, >> so you're not you're not >> Okay. Not the Harbor Master.
>> Okay. You can be if you'd like to. >> I did. >> I can you just wait until until we're ready for you. Otherwise, we'll >> have these to you and you can simply
just pass them out. >> The the harbor master is next. >> Oh, sorry. Little out of order on the agenda. That's okay. call you up after that. Was she next after him? >> Nothing.
>> All right. Just [Applause] >> so Chairman Stuck, members of the commission, good evening. Thank you for taking the time and happy holidays. Uh I am Bill Chase. I'm the director of
marine services, uh the harbor master here in town. Uh, I've been in this position since the 2nd of July. And one of the biggest concerns that I have in this department is the condition
of the building that we operate out of. I think most of you are probably familiar with it. It's a very small building uh right down at Westport Point and it is in terrible condition. Admittedly, I am a ranked novelist when
it comes to matters of this arena. Um, so I set out to try to fund um this project in any way that that I could. I started with
CIPC. Um, I asked them for $100,000. That is still being considered. I don't know quite where we are in that uh in that discussion. And I know that there will be some decisions made very soon about all of that.
Where I could not guarantee that we would get some of that money, I decided to reach out to uh CPC and see if that would be a better route, maybe a better fit. All of that aside, I don't know what
your um requirements are to rehab this building, assuming we can come up with the money. Uh and I know that's in a historical district and obviously I have to abide by the rules of this commission. So, I guess I'm here on kind
of a factf finding uh mission uh just to see what I need to do. One of the biggest concerns that I have is that in order to provide a reasonable estimate of these costs, I
need to know what requirements all of you have before I can say, "Okay, uh, contractor XYZ said he can do it for $50,000." Well, that is meaningless unless you weigh in and say 50,000 is not going to do it. So, I need to know
what I need to do to satisfy the commission so that I can come up with a reasonable estimate for whichever way we find that we can fund this. So, that's why I'm here tonight. I guess it's more of an advice and consent thing. Uh, I'm
just looking for information. >> Are you going to expand the building at all? >> I don't think so. Uh, Moody, I don't think there is a need for it. Um my understanding is if you go down that road uh it brings in a whole bunch of
other players that we would have to satisfy. Um I think when you consider the mission of the hobby master and the marine services department the size of the building is big enough. Um but I'm really afraid that uh if we put this off
much longer we'll be doing more than just replacing shingles and trim the roof. Uh I think we're very lucky right now that there's no leak inside the building. It seems to be relatively watertight, but it does have roof shingles missing. The the trim is
rotting. Uh the shingles are curling up. Um the windows are beyond drafty. So it needs some work and it needs it soon. So uh before I can come up again with a reasonable estimate of cost, I need to
know what requirements you will have. So I think um you know so so our our mandate is is to make sure that architectural changes in in the district are appropriate to the district
and so that's that's what we would be looking for is is that um the siding material would be appropriate. of shingles most likely. Um the roofing material um we have limited um you know say in in
that um but uh we have say over things like trim boards um dimensions of of of windows, the kinds of windows that you could put in. But basically, I mean, if you look up and down the street, you can kind of see
what we are are aiming for, you know, to to sort of preserve, you know, the look and feel that's appropriate to the point. >> And I applaud that. >> I want to give you this guideline because this is really easy to understand and it's something we
will to give you an indication of the kinds of things that you would want to do. >> Okay. >> So, that helps. Can you say from the foundation where is there rock in any of the contact the
base of the building with stone or concrete? >> I cannot answer that question sir. Um it doesn't have a foundation per se. It basically sits on stilts I guess for lack of a better term because it does flood down there from
time to time. And you're saying that the flood waters have reached at least the floor and the connections. >> I haven't physically seen that happen, but just by looking at any time gauge, you would have to say that at some point it probably did get wet.
I think one of the most important pieces of the issue that you bring up is is it was just putting new siding on or a new roof on the foundation is really the
weak point in the whole project. uh and it's likely to be a problem uh and that it's just so to speak out in the rain for as long as it has and probably wasn't a a great construction
piece. >> Well, I believe this um building was designed by Chip Gillespie who was a friend of mine back in the day. He was a an architect of uh on a pretty high level. Uh, so >> yeah, this is not just a shack that was
knocked together by the guys over at the highway department. This was properly designed. Um, although I doubt that Chip could have envisioned that the water would have gotten up to that height during that time period. >> You know, another applicant came before us a little while ago and she did a
whole study about the water rising and she wanted to apply to bring her building up. I think her foot was it Dorothy Paul. She had a whole study attached to her project. I mean, we could probably find that in our
record and see what she used to determine if she was at risk. She was at risk for flood waters and maybe you could look at the same uh kind of study to see if maybe you do need to raise it. I mean, I know the papachuck got flooded a couple times last year.
>> You're in the same line of fire, right, with the flood waters coming in. >> Probably close to the same height, I suspect. So that could be something you'd look into to see if you would need to raise it at all. I guess it from my perspective, it really depends on who
has to pay for this and how much can be afforded, right? So if it's really just about basic maintenance of what's there, I would stick with keeping it simple and, you know, replace you know, rotted boards or what have you. I think raising
that building is significant cost to the town and I think that that's going to be a lot more difficult for you to get funding for. Maybe you can. That's great. But if you're just looking to make sure you don't get rained on and maybe it's a little warmer in the winter
time, you know, don't bite off too much. But that would that's I'm pretty conservative in terms of how I would approach it and that's personally how I would handle it. I think you pretty much described where I am coming from as far as >> what is on your wish list.
>> What is on my wish list? Um well, first of all, I'd like to have some reliable heat inside the building. Um >> do you have no heat? >> We have two little electric heaters to heat that building that is still
pretty drafty. And when you consider where it is uh the wind uh has a certain velocity that >> we have no purview over the interior though that you know please >> I know but when someone says win you wishless I like to be warm
but but this man this is not just for that purpose it's not just a preview it is also uh giving advice to the CPC the CP does have perview over the interior >> so you have if you could this has become difficult because
>> yeah just just to clarify. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um so this this project is actually on agenda twice. >> Yes. >> Once for a preliminary review which involves things that we would have some say about. So windows for example or
shingles or trim. Um the other um agenda item is um is is relative to our advisory role to the CPC whether we're able to say to the CPC yes this is a valuable project it's a val valuable
building and this is a a project that that we would endorse in terms of preserving that privilege. So the two two different things that >> but it also has a third rule because if >> he's trying to go to C CIPC
um he has to do it correctly as far as historical commission is concerned. Um and so he has to have the funding as she mentioned that's available. He has to ask for that kind of funding. That 100,000 would cover I'm sure what you
recommend. It sounds like it's just repair of a not so historic building, but it's in the historic district. So, it's that's the complication. >> And you're if he we don't get a
recommendation tonight, then you cannot we don't want you to present in December >> or you could present in December and without a recommendation, but we would require one in by January. Would
that help? >> So he could come back and discern >> you have to have something more concrete to make a recommendation on. >> Yes. That's what I'm I didn't know that I didn't know what he had presented. So that's the problem. It's not concrete
enough. So if you could give him advice uh as far as you're concerned, what your purview is and what you think should be done, you can't do that. whatever he's asking for. Yeah. And um that would give
us some idea at CPC this month of what the project is and sort of cost because this year we really have a lot of applications to CPC. So every penny counts. So you should do the things that are most important.
Well, if if you wanted to talk about a wish list, I I think just the basic roof, siding, trim, windows, and doors, >> that would satisfy us for some time to come. >> I think that would satisfy us also. >> Yes. >> Because what you're saying is you just
want to keep it the way it is. Yes. >> You just renew the surfaces, the materials. >> Okay. Well, and also we would be adding on a heat pump for some >> and some insulation as well because there there is not >> Well, I can't see that we would have any
problem with that except we would like to know if you're going to put a new door, what type of door it is. If you're putting in new windows, we want to be very careful about the type of window you're putting in. So, it's very similar to what's there. I actually don't know what's there, but
>> it's a simple it's a very simple building. Would you have ADA um access in this new >> building ramp of some type? >> You have talked about the ADA access with Jim Hartnett. Um that would be
quite a structure when you consider the rate of elevation. Uh I would almost have to wrap around the building. >> Yeah, that would be tough. Um >> do you need ADA access for that? >> I'm just asking if he needs it. I honestly don't know if that is a requirement. >> When I come in to see you, usually you
meet me at the door. It's very rare that I would go into the building to conduct business. So, I don't know if that's a requirement. >> Well, I would say that the steps as they currently exist are basically a couple of pieces of granite. Um, so whatever we
do needs to be upgraded to some level. Whether it has to go to ADA or not, I'm I'm just not sure. You can find that out by contacting the the state access board. They can tell you immediately. >> Mark, in your experience, what what
would trigger >> I think that the real issue is is once you have whatever means of egress is in line with ADA regulations is the building actually with whatever furnishings you need. Is there actually
a five foot radius that would allow you to turn those who would use this on the ramp? So would probably be in a wheelchair. So is there a five foot radius once that person is in for him to turn around in
eress because >> I think the answer to that >> I remember you are >> yeah I think the answer to that is yes >> is >> but I also was say one other thing about the construction
um because when you start project and it's not been clarified as how the basic building is attached to the grave and all of the things that that can really
store water that you don't see day in day out those will be discovered and then you could end up having to go back >> and go through this whole process again. So what I would advise is that you have some investigation not just at the roof and things that we
will have some control >> but things that make this building a good investment for any community hopefully to use. >> You can count on that
investigation is simple but it really needs to be done. But we actually talked about the underpinnings in the con in the context of insulation. So if you're going to insulate, you know, the roof of the the sidewalls, you've obviously got to put
something under there as well. And then it gets to the point of is it going to get wet? When if it gets wet, is it going to destroy it? So these these are the kind of the open questions I guess that we still have. But I will certainly look into that. Thank you for that. >> I know this is not going to be a
constant, but I think you're much less expensive to replace it even level of the community. want to we need the master's shack as
part of building for a very long period of time as far as responsibilities you have grown over [Applause] the whole entails from beginning. So, I think that
if we if the I think if it's an existing building, I think that the rules around ADA are a little bit different. If you're going to tear it down and start over, then I think that >> it's different. Okay. I I mean, I don't want to make a mountain out of a
molehill here. We're talking about siding, trim, windows, roofing. Um I mean we want to do the right thing a door but you know I think we have to be pragmatic about how is the building
used. You know you know we definitely can ask what is legal but you know if there's a line for CPC money I think we should be pragmatic about what's necessary so that we can make the project sizable to actually get the
important pieces done. Um, you know, I I I guess I'm just a little concerned. I don't I don't We shouldn't make this bigger than it needs to be. >> I'm afraid when we get into it, we may find that it will become bigger.
I have a shed just about the size. Decided, I think, to just take the shed down and move it. 90° position. >> Talking about the last meeting, 2038 Main Road. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, those sheds are both
being demolished and one of them will be rebuilt. >> Yeah. >> Because they will be using >> Right. Right. >> But I I don't I don't think the building is dilapidated the way that those sheds
were. It's a building that people work in. It's not a garden shed to store tools. That's, you know. >> Yeah. I guess that's that's part of Mark's question is what is the real state of the building? Like I mean, if you start looking at the at the at the
sills and the and the foundation. I mean, is it is it all rotted? I mean, or is it as you describe just sort of a cosmetic thing? I think that's a question that we don't really know the answer to. >> Excuse me. I don't either. Um, and that concerns me.
So you start tearing it down and looking inside deeply, it's it's tough to make any assumptions, >> but that is clearly a risk. >> Can I say something? >> Um, sorry. I was just was thinking if you were going to sell a property, you would probably have somebody do an
assessment of it. So you'd have a building report. It's almost like if you had a building report done on on your building, you would at least have that information to uh help it begin with an assessment of what you would need to do to renovate it. And then you would
develop a scope of work. Uh and then you would have a builder give you an estimate on that work. And I think then you start to help the cause. >> Well, I you know, you can make the argument that I put the cop before the horse. >> Yeah. U but again I have to uh declare
uh ignorance on some of these matters. Uh but I think that's very good advice. >> I mean that's I I think that's and then you have that report you can distribute that to all the people who are you know interested parties and they could then have a better understanding of what you're discussing because we don't have
any information. I I've been down there and I've seen it but I can't bring it to my mind uh what the flood levels are and what the investment uh is needed. It sounds like it could be quite expensive when it's $150,000 to put a ramp on another building.
It's a could be an expensive proposition. >> Well, the ADA would only be if it's required. No, I know. >> Yeah. So, we were trying to figure out there's a trigger point that you suddenly have an ADA require. >> I think if you go more beyond 50% of the work on on the building, it depends on how many square feet it is, right?
>> That triggers another response. It's not. You could say it's grandfathered, I suppose. Or go to the building bar and ask them. >> Yeah, >> you wanted to say something. >> I I was just going to say that um Do you want to come
>> that the um Learf was approved, completely approved, you know, it's going to flood. There was never any discussion uh at that time. In fact, everything
down there is going to flood. >> For sure. >> For sure. >> Not too far along in a few years. So, this is an issue all over the state, >> right? But I don't think that starting
with the Harvard esters fact and saying it has to do something without this being resolved should be the mission of the commission. >> No, I I don't think anybody's saying that. I mean, I think what what we're saying, what what I'm hearing is is that
before putting money into renovating it, we need to make sure that it's actually um sound, right? That it's not rotting at the base because putting a new roof and and and new shingles on something that's
rotting at the base, >> it'll last a few years. >> Yeah, it might last a few years. >> That's similar to my house. >> Yeah. I mean, what am I going to do? Raise my house? >> That's the only answer. >> So, it's it's a big problem.
>> It is. >> But I think that um with the Harbor Master Shack, they're trying to be more comfortable and make it look better at least for 10 or 15 years, >> you know, and then we face these issues.
Um, and I don't think that this is this is not something that CPC has considered, of course, in the past. We we've looked to you for the historic buildings, but I think it would be C CIPC
would never they don't have the money. The town doesn't have the money. This is a town building. So, there are a lot of complex issues here, unfortunately. Well, I I I think it would I mean it would be very helpful to just have a
like even the home inspector. I don't know if that's the basic that's what I was suggesting. >> Yeah. Um which is I mean fairly short money. >> Um to just have someone come in crawl around the foundation um you know tap with a mallet and and you know figure
out what's what's the real condition of that building >> before we take the next step. >> Yeah. Before taking the next step. Well, at least to help you define your scope >> of what you do need to do. Either to make it resilient to water inundation andor, you know, create heat for you
that's not going to fly out the windows or roof that's sound so it doesn't get any worse damage. I mean, you sort of have to come up with your scope based on >> what you learn. Then we can certainly look at it and give you feedback. >> Have you talked to the building department? >> I have not. I've had two contractors
come down, look at it. Basically, what they've done is said, you know, I I can do the shingles and the trim and the roof and so on so forth for I think we're up to $47,000 right now. That's all of that plus a heat pump and insulation. Mhm.
>> Um, so that is the number that I not the original number that I went to CIPC with, but that's the updated number that I gave to Jim Hart after those two estimates were done. >> U, but I can see we really kind of have put the cop before the horse here.
You know, we don't want to put a band-aid on on something that doesn't need it, >> shouldn't get it, I should say. Did those contractors have any any thoughts about the soundness of the building? >> One of them said, "Uh, boy, I'd love to know what's going on underneath."
So, >> so I I you know, I I think that um you know, my approach to this has been I'm not going to say knee-jerk um but when you look at the condition of the building and I mean that's a town office. It's not just the Hobby Master
Shack. That is the town office >> and it it's a mess right now. It really needs to get squared away. So I >> I guess I kind of jump down this path first and foremost to try to fix an obvious problem.
>> But I can see from your comments that uh we need to do a little bit more investigation before we before we move on. >> I think also as Tim is suggesting the report There's a document that we can all refer
to the various fundraising approval and that report could help significantly in at least helping to document the scope of work with just someone marking off a PDF. If you have good photography of the exterior, then you can create
your scope of work by saying you're going to replace this window with this and this shingle with this. And that gives the commission the opportunity to see what the scope of work is. And any builder, so you don't have the one builder giving one suggestion versus
another one giving their their suggestion. They're both working from the same document. I mean, I don't know what your power requirements are or what the toilet facilities are or what they talks. >> I mean, it sounds rather kind of rustic. So, >> primitive. >> Yeah. Um, so
>> it's nice. >> It's rustic's nice to a point. >> You know, it I don't know if that's a consideration. And then, you know, the whole issue of rising flood water is an issue. If it's on pilings, maybe, you know, you could add uh some cribbing to
the top of those pilings and then just build lift the building up. that may be something worth worth investigating. Um and there's a cost associated with that and that you know brings forward some of these other ideas about what's happening with rising water. Um it's a
serious problem. By the way, just a side note, there is a uh feasibility study that is about to launch uh and it's all about the uh town docks. Uh the condition of the town docks and part of this uh report that we should have
probably midsummer uh will give us some indication of where they think water levels will be 100 years from now. >> Oh, good. >> 100 years from now. >> 100 years. That's part of the study. >> Unless you know something a little sooner than me.
I mean, everybody's talking about lifting everything. I mean, it's it's obvious, isn't it? It's not just the shack. It's probably the town dock as well, which has been underwater more than once. >> I'm sure we'll again. >> Um, the the other thing I would say is
is that um I I know that's not an old building, but it I think it's very important uh to the historic district. I mean, it's it's a it's a big part of the presence of down there at the the docks. And >> um >> you sorry to interrupt. I was just
thinking out loud that, you know, you could theoretically look at a modular building that could replace it in kind where it could be built to new standards and just basically put back onto the foundations. uh which um in a controlled
environment you might get a better building and it might cost less >> as an idea. I know it's historic fabric but you're saying it's not particularly old and chip designed it. >> So, you know, it could it could be the copy of what's there. >> Mhm.
>> And you got to bring it on a trailer. >> Bring it on a trailer, put it on the crane. You you you take your existing pilings, raise them all up uh however much you need, 2 feet or so, and and suddenly you put this thing back on there with a with and it has a composting toilet inside it. And it's
like, you know, suddenly you've got this thing that's sealed and it's insulated and it's made in a in a workshop. Um it could and those things are automated now. So in a sense that they the cost of
building the most exper the most expensive thing in in building is the labor. >> So if you can build it in a controlled environment you might be able to get something like that idea. >> Oh
what a precedent that would set. We means that every building down there can be >> No it doesn't. >> It's a precedent >> and precedent counts. It's well if you if you say so. It's a town building. Uh
and is it a historic building? >> Yes. Only because it's in the historic district and the other buildings in the historic district are considered historic district historical even though they are >> it's fairly new.
>> I think it's a terrible precedent. We have an example of that across the street, but they went around it in a different way, but >> Okay. So, um I mean I think you you've heard our comments. Um >> some very good advice and I appreciate
all this. >> Yeah. And and and like I said, I mean I think I think it's an important building and and you know, we want to help >> Okay. In >> terms of the timing for the CPC, um, you will probably won't be able to meet the December meeting, which is a week from
now. I mean, you can't really get this done that fast. So maybe January, could that be possible that he could come before CPC in January and we could do an interim
reaction to what is presented? In the past, we've only allowed that in the case where there was negotiation over price of property for uh conservation. Um I do not I'm trying to remember anything that we came in at the last
minute. We've have like play settings. You could come in kind of and try to explain what you're trying to do. Um but you aren't going to be able to come in with any pricing at all. Um I think your best CIPC.
>> Well, they may very well say u okay, you're on the list, >> but then you have to deal with the historical commission >> with them too. >> This is a dilemma. >> But it's okay to come back to us say in January, early January, you'll have a little of this work done and then you
have at least >> just a short presentation that you would like to be considered. This is what you'd like to do. Um, but it may be necessary to do a little more >> and you'd come back in in January >> to WHC and then you have the document
>> to come here, right? To go. >> But I think given what you've asked him to do, it's going to take some time. >> Can you explain to us a little more how we interact with CIPC? And >> you you don't
>> Yeah. So, but but but you said we're a part of the process. >> Yes, you have. It's in the historic district. >> I don't ever remember anything with CIPC in the historic district. >> Okay. So, if he goes the CIPC route,
then we don't have a role. If he goes, >> your role is to approve what he does and then he asks CIPC for that. When when are the deadline for that? C February. >> Uh actually, no. I've already presented
to them. uh they have taken all of their proposals and put them in three categories. I can tell you that we are one of the number ones, but all the number ones add up to more money than is available. So, somebody's going to get >> somebody's going to have the chair
missing when the music stops. >> Okay. And I want to make sure. >> So Betty, are you're saying that that um we would need to issue issue a certificate of appropriateness >> before a CIPC grant could be applied for. Is is
that what you're saying? >> Not before it can be applied for, but before it can be granted. >> Granted. Okay. And what's the grant cycle? >> Um that's why I'm asking what is when
So they have a meeting on the 10th >> of of December. >> December. >> Okay. >> Well, you can't make that one, but maybe they can make the January. Do they have a January? Do they don't they do monthly? >> That I don't know. But >> we can't do anything until January unless you come before us.
Well, December is now. So January is the next possible meeting that you could get a CA from us, which means you'd have to have a scope and some idea of what you're doing. Mhm. >> And a building inspection. >> I think that's >> starting with the inspection.
>> Starting with the inspection, then going from there. I think >> Yeah. I mean, technically, I mean, that wouldn't be necessary for a certificate of appropriateness, right? Because >> we don't really care about >> I mean, we care about how the building's
going to look um when it's finished. Uh whether it's sound or not, it's it's not really in our purview. I I get that, but just for the sake of responsibility. >> Yeah. And and also in our role as advising the CPC on on whether this is a
worthwhile project, you know, I think we'd need to know whether the building itself. >> So, just to review what the steps are, it seems like from Tim's suggestion, you sounded like you would like the idea of getting an assessment from a building inspector just to get a sense of the whole condition.
>> Yes. and then develop your scope which won't take too much longer after you have that report and then you'll see what that report says come up with that scope if you can do all that by early January we need what's the date that we have to do notice it would be two weeks
before that meeting so >> it's it's >> you have you don't have to have the plan completed but you have to have a notice to the community that you're going to be before us >> for a certificate of appropriateness >> December 17th That means the application has to be in
hand by the 17th and then we would do a notice and then you'd come before us in January and we'd issue or not issue your certificate of appropriateness and then you go and you get your CIPC grant potentially
>> knowing that you've got support here. So if if I understand you correctly um regardless of who funds this that certificate of appropriateness has to be in place first >> I think so and I think you need that base covered to go to the next
>> yeah I mean that would depend on the funding organizations what what their rules are but but but you could you could pursue the certificate of appropriateness independently >> independent funding >> I mean you could you could you know put together a plan I want to put in these windows um I want to, you know, shingle the
exterior. I want to put in this door. You could you could put that all together in a proposal. And we could approve that without knowing whether the building is sound, you know, without knowing any anything else about it. >> Um
and separately, you know, you could you could be doing the building inspection, you could be doing whatever the granting or organizations require you to do. I mean the granting organizations one of their first questions to you will be do you have permission to do this and that's where we come in. So if you've
covered that base already then you can continue the process from any of these funding organizations. >> Okay. I just had to find out how to get to first base before I went to the next step. So >> well I appreciate all your time and your expertise and it's a lot clearer now than it was when I walked in. So I thank
you for you taking a strategic point of view spending your time doing research is useful. >> Yeah. You know I thought hob master was just playing around in boats and being Joe hero. Nothing like that.
Thank you. >> Thank you all. >> Thanks for coming in. If he's getting a CA on just the exterior renovation >> and then the CPC is going to fund it, we also have to have an opinion about whether it's worth
>> then it becomes a soundness question. >> There's two pieces deeply issued. I didn't have them before. They're two copies. >> That's quite a Thank you so much. >> Okay. For the record, we just received photos of the property that uh was first
on the 1878 D. >> Okay. Um so I I noticed that I didn't have my mic on. I don't know if anybody else would. Do you have a the mic? >> Are you hearing us? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I know.
>> Can you deal with that? >> Sure. Here. This is this is >> You know what? Let's do this. I'll >> How do we switch? >> Switch. >> I've always wanted to switch. >> I think uh it's now >> it's okay. I can speak.
>> Okay. The next item on the agenda is um Westport Historical Society presentation of proposed clamored repairs at the bill school. >> Was it possible CPA funding? >> Uh this these are all CPC matters
for possible CPA funding. >> Okay. Sorry, I thought letter A says possible CPA funding of harbor master renovations. >> Yeah. So we discussed that a little bit as we were going along. >> That's Oh, so that's covered. It was embedded. No additional information that we need. >> Yeah, that
>> okay. It was all kind of compressed into one. >> Was it not not covered to your satisfaction, Betty? >> I mean, we don't have a recommendation. You covered the topic. >> We covered the topic. >> You haven't given us a recommendation. You can't >> which we cannot >> and so you know what they wanted to do,
>> right? Which we just reviewed what the process >> January for that. >> Yeah, January would be the right time. if he comes in December, we we he can do it. I I don't know what he's going to end up doing. I'll talk to him about that. >> Okay. But but as far as as far as the CPC is concerned, we're we're all set.
Okay. >> That's covered. That one is covered. >> Okay. So, let's go ahead with the um um the Bell School. And just a reminder, we did um discuss this at our last meeting and we asked for more information and some site visits, which I think were done by
>> Mark did a site visit. >> Mark and Bill and Bill too. Okay, >> Katrina, >> did you vote too? Yes. >> Great. >> Okay. Ivonne Bar, Westport Historical Society. And as you know, I was here last month and couldn't answer some of
the questions that you had. So, I tried to anticipate all of that in what I passed out to you, which gives you an idea of what the method is going to be and what the materials we would use. So, I'm not not sure that those made it. Did
those make it all >> I sent what Levon sent. >> Sorry to interrupt you. Um, but but she had she had some documents that were pass including this. >> There might be another >> brought something else in tonight. So,
>> yes. Um, so there was just this uh narrative of the treatment and then this picture of the clapboards. >> Okay. So, two more of those. Can you share then? >> Okay. >> Did you guys get a picture of the
collabor this this picture >> that was in the email? >> I think there were also some copies sent out. >> Did I not bring enough? I thought I brought >> It's okay. >> It's okay. Yeah, we can pass it. >> Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. >> Okay. Um, and to that end, I'm also show
you the materials that I brought along as samples of what we propose using. You had asked about the clabards and this is an example of a clabard that would that would be used which is pre-
primed on both sides and the nails that are recommended. And you didn't ask about the house wrap. That's this is what we would propose to use for that. >> It's a 30 lb gener.
>> And what's the life on that? >> The life of that is at least 50 years. is is comparable with anything else >> and and why not something like ice and water shield or something that would be
>> we're not that seems to be counter indicated for >> yeah interesting >> that this is this is the best product that everyone we talk with all kinds of experts in the field about >> to whether to do this or not do this to
have um various kinds of of insulation and the the opinions were mixed but overall was there's some question and if there's question I don't think we should
do it or we felt we shouldn't do it and this is as good a recommendation as anything else. The only advantage to the others would be the possible savings on utilities and that's
That would be a tough payback. So anyway, anybody want to >> So is this part of the building unoccupied? >> Possibility. >> Is this part of the building unoccupied?
>> Well, it's occupied. >> Okay. Internal temperatures are an uninsulated building are not an issue. Well, the the uh the roof is insulated with foams. >> Yeah. >> And that's where the major
>> loss would be would be through the roof, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And the windows are problematic, but they'll be taken care of with this new arrangement. >> Yeah. >> I did visit the site and um the
clapboards appear to be original. They're applied with the ones that are there. >> There's some repair. The clapboards are to me. You can't tell unless you take a clapboard off and look at the back of it. But um they have the square nails.
>> In the picture is is a joint where old clabard and the newer clabard of the 1970s bulkhead was attached. You can see that it would be substantially the same, >> right? Um, so you're you're replacing
all the clabboards on the building. >> Yes. >> And the question last time was, are the clabboards that are on there original? >> The there >> to the building. >> There are the there aren't that many. There are pieces of of old clabards, but
>> not that many. And the oldest clabards do not have any any paper protection or anything behind them. >> Sure. >> So they have deteriorated. >> Okay. Um they
you can't tell if they're original until you take often look at the back of it for the saw marks. >> It's a waterhe saw. those little marks that go up and down like that. >> Unfortunately, we don't have anything
like that. >> Well, I mean, you if you take you haven't looked at the back of the shingles, >> you haven't taken the clapboard off. >> Yes, >> you have. Well, anyway, um it's irrelevant. I
think that um what they're planning is excellent. It's not something we like to see original clap words, but there aren't that many of them. There's been a lot of repairs of the clapboards from what I could see.
>> So many that it's hard to distinguish. >> Katrina and Mark, do do you have anything to add about >> No, I I I think the only thing I would add is um given the sample here, it's the profile is very consistent with what is on the majority of the building. And so I think that it would be absolutely
acceptable >> and using the stainless steel nails. Your ring nails are very very >> stainless steel nails >> and they're going to be sunk in and you're going to use a a putty on it. >> That is correct. >> Mark, what what can you add?
>> This is this is a simple problem on his face, but not really to get down into it. Uh I did look at the uh um this is I think going to look like it
was made to a much higher standard just the surface material that is it's cedar cedar. Again, this comes back to it's it's a historical building because it was a
school as much as what the materials are in it currently given the fact that we don't really have a good record that this is a a favorite because it it qualifies it makes our whole community
>> I'm sorry Mark I'm having trouble >> I'm having trouble hearing you too. Can you say that again please? Well, it in looking at it and looking at how it has been treated and how it's been moved and then placed and there's a new
habitable uh building below it. It's just about the size of the building above it. Uh many things have been done to it which are all favorable but not necessarily historic. >> That's right. So I think that this has to be handled
within the context of its evolution. I think uh you know buildings become historic not just because of what we see but what has happened in or how they fit into a pattern of other activities that
make the whole we want to take a sol. >> Yes, that's I I agree with you. Um, and from the interior of the building, as I'm sure you might remember, you can read that. >> Yes. >> Because
the various repairs have changed over time, but we haven't we haven't tried to make anything uniform of a modern type, but rather so that it speaks for the time
>> repairs were made. all these cues that we have uh it's it's a difficult goal what history is and what the perspective is we bring to assess them but I think the um at least my understanding the
Bell schoolhouse wasn't preserved to as the schoolhouse it was repurposed so it would it would remain historical we preserved it in that it wasn't going to fall now, but it is now a functional
place for the historical society to store artifacts, to have exhibits, to invite the public in to learn about the town. I think that in contrast, the Handy House
has been, and I'm going to use these words very naively, preserved. It it's it's historic. You go to the handy house and it looks like it was built in the 1700s.
The wind rips through it and we're keeping it, you know, weathertight, but it's not being repurposed. It's it's rather museumlike. Whereas, I think the Bell Schoolhouse, it was
we created a a a community function for it. Um, so I I think that's the difference. And so for me, for them to replace the clabards with, you know, this cedar profile is a lovely
opportunity to again keep the schoolhouse, you know, upright and watertight and alive and well and and purposeful for the community. I understand that it we might not be preserving it as a
schoolhouse and that should have gone, you know, probably a hundred years ago when the building was allowed to go into disrepair. But, you know, I I I think that for what you want to do, this suits
what the purpose is at this point. >> Questions? I'm not clear about the entire scope of it and I haven't been to the building in many years. So I'm just sort of trying to understand it from this photograph and from this description. But is it one
entire wing of the >> entire >> is it the entire building? >> It's the entire building. But you understand that there was a new edition which was finished in 19 2024 >> and this would
>> all right. I need to stop by and have a look. >> So this this would deal with the rest of it. >> And the the the addition has been has been sided with um with with the same same clab. The the addition does it have these clabards on it already?
>> Oh yes. >> Okay. So match. >> Matching looks good. Yeah. >> Yes. Everything will look uniform. >> Seems about right. >> I would do one thing. I think you could if you find it
demolition if there are more parts that have been original. I think that it would be very wise and helpful to photograph and dimension those so that generations that follow
won't think that this is historic which it is not. It's not made historic. It will be a very different set of instruments that that make each line in and as it circles the building uh more
uniform than it ever would have been. carpenters unlikely ships rights that came and built something here while they the ships were out.
I' I'd say that anything that you can preserve as I think you have in and small pieces of this as it originally would would give us the other side or one of the other sides of being historic. the fabric. I think it's
probably historic more for all the materials you have brought together and and made really a record for the town. Very important. And then what the building is, which is
a kind of a collection of various ways of just fixing something that never had a good operating budget but had a lot of community support. Well, what you one of the things that you've just given me the thought is
that when we do remove old clabbers, we can save some. >> Well, and particularly there may be some that do go back to one of the original construction U periods that uh might give us a good
idea not about just this but the the type of construction that we were capable of doing at that particular time. All of these things, you know, there's nothing that's really historic anymore. I think Andy House is a great example,
but I go in there and see electric lights and I'm scratching my head as to which area we're in. It's a matter of tolerance. >> I think somebody lived there until somewhat recently, right? So, >> they got to have some plumbing and
electricity. >> If anyone hasn't been there should go to the basement because the basement of the second floor is the history of the town. Uh, not the history so to speak, not not a building that's historic.
very example the good bomb shelter down there where some of it work our materials you because of your action and others that you preserve it that's tremendous important but any any details simple any details that you see that
might have original nails in it >> or other things that were appropriate to the time >> preserve those >> yes we well we've we've done some of that at the Handy House and um and that's part of its part of
its purpose is to be able to show the materials and the method of construction and the Bell School doesn't quite warrant that. So >> great.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thanks. So, um, Betty, I just want to understand you you want from us, um, approval approval maybe is not the >> recommendation. >> Recommendation um that that the CPC approve these changes to the work. Is
that is that correct? >> No, no, you you don't have to tell us what we need to do. Just say that you recommend the use of these particular clabs materials. >> That's all you have to say. >> Okay? and that we we can take that from
there and move. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, um do I hear a motion to um >> I'll move that we recommend these materials to the CPC for this project.
>> Second. Is is this the language? >> Perfect. >> Okay. Okay. Uh we have a motion seconded. Um let's do a roll call vote. Start with Mark. Board Money approved. >> Deborah Chi approved. >> Jared Stark I.
>> William Kendall I. >> Timothy Bryant I >> Caroline Boulder I. >> Okay great. >> Can I just make a comment? >> Yes. to this. Um, so listening to this discussion,
um, the idea of the materials that are original being preserved, that would be, uh, a good idea to tell people in the historic district because we have seen people go in and throw out,
not recently, but in the past, throw out material materials into dumpsters and the neighbors come along and pick them up. If you recommended to people to tell their builders, you know, uh we
preserve these materials at least on the interior would be very helpful because they change everything in the interior. If they would preserve it would be helpful. The second is um this is preservation and rehabilitation. It's
both. And you are covered by the Department of Interior, Secretary of Interior's rehabilitation guides. If you look at rehabilitation versus preservation, they accept that. I mean, the country
accepts that. That'd be helpful. The third is that the handy house was built in three three periods. That's the reason you've seen these different things. It's three periods. Thank you. >> Thanks, Betty.
>> Okay, moving on to um next item on our agenda, a presentation by Paul Schmid on proposed installation of an ADA compliant grant at the American Legion Hall at 489 Sanford Road.
>> Thank you very much, uh, Chair Stuck, uh, Vice Chair Chie, and committee members. I appreciate being put on the agenda. Uh I'm commander of the American Legion Post 145 uh at 489 Sanford Road.
And the proposal before you is uh to a ramp to allow the second floor of this building uh to be accessed by uh uh by anyone. I have some material for you.
I have a sketch of the uh ramp. There's one for everybody. And I have site plan and two photographs uh of the building.
>> These are the same. [Music] Maybe we could just uh if we could if we could start with the site plan. That's the top page on the group
site plan. Yeah, that just locates the uh building on uh 489 Sanford Road. Uh next we have a photograph
of the building showing its east facing its east face and its north face. [Applause] And then third in the group of three
uh shows the building with its east side and its south side. And then finally uh we have a sketch of the ramp which would be located
along the north uh side of the building which would be back to this photograph. >> That's the the north kind of comes out all the way. I saw another drawing of it.
Oh, you have it in >> the want to see it. >> Well, we got it. Um, I'd just like to say that, um, I have visited the site with Betty and Rud Lawrence, and this goes back quite a few
years, it seems. Uh and um you know we did a a site visit and met with some someone >> Yeah. Yeah. And um discussed you know what was being needed and then it did
come before the commission uh and the commission was very favorable to this new design. Uh there were many different designs that were proposed, but this one that has been presented that I've seen
online, but I don't see it here in this packet. >> Bill, the the email that I've sent to you was from an old proposal that was submitted to the CPC to provide context and now we're getting the updated information.
>> That's the one that we've seen then. You might have seen this in the past and now we're getting the updated >> version of how this ramp is going to get. >> Okay. So, this is what it's going to look like then. >> There's no changes. >> This is what they were provided from an old presentation.
>> Yes. The older presentation which uh that was a sketch done by Tim Gillespie. uh showed a ramp with three ramps, >> turns, >> three turn uh >> well,
>> three three parts to a three turn, >> right? This is a switch back. >> Yes. >> And the proposal that we're putting before you today uh has it just two, >> doesn't have the third switch back.
>> Where is this proposal? I I don't see the drawing. Now that's the separate piece of paper. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> But it's it's to be located in the location that you saw earlier. It's
just slight. It's instead of having three parts to it, it has two. >> Is this the >> Does that mean the slope is a little bit higher because now you don't it's it would have been a more dental. >> Yeah. Now the slope is as proposed but we found that the change in elevation
>> couldn't accommodate >> quite enough as quite as much as we thought. So it can we can do it in two if you will. >> And and is is this the the sketch that shows shows it when you come in or is that
>> uh that is an old sketch I >> Yeah. Everything you have in the email is >> see those were proposals that >> all the way front those 2000. >> Yeah, they're old. >> Those were those were other ideas that right were brought before the
commission. >> Okay. >> Uh and uh it was this one that we saw here that had the three different um inclined ramp uh that we were favorable to. >> Yes.
>> The three versus the two. >> Well, no. Now that he's come with the two, it's we certainly favorable that. >> Yeah. It's less complicated. So, where would the entry be on the street? >> Uh, would be in the front? >> It would be in the front. >> In the front. That's easier, too, to navigate too.
>> Yes. >> So, the entrance bill would be here instead of way back here. >> Yeah. >> So, it's just simpler, >> right? So, it still goes along the side of the building. >> Yes. >> Okay. Now, you you keep in mind that this building has been moved and put up on that foundation, right?
>> Because they're just taking away the >> Yes, that's correct. I mean, the way it sits up high on the on on the basement is uh because it's been moved over there. So, we're not seeing the the school in its original uh setting. >> Yeah. The the second floor now was the
first floor. Sure. And when it was moved across the street, >> uh it was put on a foundation that gave it its first floor. >> Could I ask if I think it seems question. This um this ramp will now do
more to change the character of the building than almost anything. Have you considered uh they're becoming less and less expensive? Is there higher volume of thinking of just a small?
We we certainly have and uh we concluded that uh first we thought about the matter of safety and we thought about the time in the event there was a problem in the building. We thought about the time uh
to have someone enter the elevator and then come down to the ground, get off, elevator comes back up to let a possible second person and we thought about that uh fire in Fall River. >> Absolutely.
>> Uh this summer and we thought we're concerned about safety issues. Secondly, uh it would it would be a out outside lift and we thought about the maintenance required on an outside lift.
So to us and and of course it we could construct an inside elevator shaft, but that's a that's a a project of an entirely different level. So sort of thinking through
issues of safety, we thought a ramp really uh provides the best egress in the event of a problem >> and the maintenance is fairly low
>> and and the maintenance is low. uh on an elevator. Uh there's an annual maintenance fee and we run uh on a very limited budget uh and just we don't have room for anything significant.
>> And a lot of those elevators that you see, they need a key to access them. And the key is often misplaced when you need it, which I've experienced with my son many, many, many times. It's hard to get them to be reliable. So >> you also generator
>> because the electricity has to come in and you have to maintain the generator which costs about $500 a year >> and an elevator has to be maintained again. >> Thank you, Betty. That's right. >> Very importantly, I if you'd like a
little history, this came to the the um you were on I believe on the commission. It came it was approved um CPC put the funding out for it. Um then they just they came to CPC and said um we would
like to do a lift and the lift is not an elevator but a lift and we said fine because that's even better cheaper. Turned out it was not and then and also the whole issue of the safety that's
happening now when you know buildings with could there's several elderly people in the American region and to get them all out would be impossible if it was a fire that the electricity went. So the idea of the ramp which was the case
in the nursing home in Fall River saved many lives. It just switched the whole concept. So that building already has so many changes as you see it's been lifted up. It's got the porch in the front etc.
But the inside they've tried to maintain and CPC has financed the the roof the septic system and the inside. Pete Baker, Gerald Gate Milum, people like that did worked on the inside of the
windows. So they done their best to maintain that. That's the reason we're back to a ramp. I CPC could have said, "Well, they approved a ramp before, but I said no, we want to your opinion.
You've already approved a ramp, >> right? So to be to be clear, the only so so we're talking really about the change. >> It's changing the ramp >> and the changes from >> and the materials used that's what I also wanted to. >> Okay. So first of all the the shape I
mean we're we're talking about a change from from three >> from two >> three legs to two legs. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> And then there's a further change in materials. >> I don't know. I don't remember what was approved, >> but we know there was some previously on
the side. I remember that the stairway had something called nearwood. >> It says gray composite decking. >> It says gray composite decking. So, it's probably like a a tracks or a
difference. >> Yeah, we thought we'd use the same material uh as we used on the construction of the uh >> this porch >> of the porch to make it just fit in with
both the front porch and the side porch. >> Um >> I think it's great. Sorry. >> No, go ahead. I was just going to say I think it's great and probably long overdue. >> Um, so >> well, you know, the purpose of the building, of course. >> Exactly. >> Uh, is to provide in addition for the
American Legion to meet, we now let the the Boy Scouts use the second floor. And in the future, we'd like to redo our kitchen facilities to make them usable. And then it it can be a uh venue uh for
the north end of town to use. So we see much more usage in the in the in the future. >> Excellent. >> It's great. >> Can I just ask one further question? >> Yes. >> Sorry. Which is the most prominent elevation as
far as I'm just not particular which is is the is there? >> Yes. The >> suggest this one >> the this faces the road.
>> Yeah. >> And there's no >> uh it's parking. >> Yeah. But there's no public >> in the rear. >> No. Is this the This is lab.
>> Yes. >> And this is this is >> There's another property here. >> Property here. And is there. >> Okay. So, I mean, again, we're we're um deciding whether to recommend to the
CPC that um not that this project be approved um but this that this this would be a good project. Okay. Um do I hear a motion? >> Motion to approve.
I I move I move as well I agree uh we should recommend to the CPC that we endorse this project. >> Okay. Uh let's do a roll call vote starting with Mark. I vote I >> Deborah >> Shelby I
>> J St. I >> William Kendall I >> Timothy Bryant I >> thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> There you have it Betty. >> Yeah. >> So we'll follow back to the >> to Betty.
>> Thank you so much. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Um, next item, general business monitors reports, early monitors reports. >> I have one. Um, it's partial launches
report. Um, Marina Feli, who did the solar array on Main Road. It's it the array is in place, >> but the fence is not yet in. So, it's actually a good time to go and see it because you can see a little bit of it without the fence and then when she puts
the fence in it will be completely >> obscured by the fence. But it's it's interesting how low they put it on the back of her little hill there. So, >> uh it's next to the post office. >> So, if you just walk down, have you walked down? Have you gone? Yeah. You
just see a barely bit of it and it's really hidden even without the fence. So, I think the fence was the right call. Y it was well done. Yeah, it'll be in the Mont Department of Fence. That's >> there. Um I should know the number. It's
the other drift road property where we approved um the solar panels. So the roof is completed and now we're just waiting for the solar panels to go on. >> So part partway done. Good progress. But
she's been great in terms of letting us know Yes, >> I've seen the emails back and forth. She's really on top of it. That's good. >> Okay. Um, next item, the 2012, sorry, the 2026 meeting schedule, which I
passed around. Um, so you'll recall that we agreed to meet on the first Wednesday of every month next year, starting January. and um so prepare a schedule. Does
everybody have a copy? I think everyone copy um point out that the February meeting is on Thursday because I'm not going to be here on Wednesday. That's okay with people
just but ju just take a minute and see if you see anything that um stands out. I tried to accommodate the holidays. Um, so there's a meeting on July 1st, which should be okay. >> September shouldn't conflict with too many things
now that it's the middle of the week, the three-day weekends that we sometimes run into. Should be a little easier. >> That's right. We don't we don't have the money holidays to to worry about. So, and uh I have reserved a room. >> No fighting over that carrot.
>> You showed up one time. >> The town's mechanism for for uh reserving a room uh needs work and I think they are working. So, >> calendar. >> Are we here? >> We're here. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Excellent. >> Okay. Um any uh any other business? Do I hear a motion to adjourn? >> Motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? I >> oppose. We are journed. Thank you.