it is 6:30 are so we will uh begin this is uh today's Thursday February the 27th 2025 and this is the meeting of the Westbard long-term building committee I'll call the meeting to order and ask everyone to stand for pledge FL United States of America and
to the repblic stands one nation God indivisible liy and justice for all okay so uh because we have uh I do have quite a few people in
attendance uh we're going to uh just begin tonight uh Miss Brown had a great s suggestion that we just go around the table and make a brief brief introduction and if you're representing uh committee to uh state what committee you're uh appointed from so start hey
know Sean leech I'm a member at large I believe John Curry whatever the name of this committee is Cindy Brown I represent the finance committee uh Christopher Thrasher I'm an at large member I'm the chair Evan jeder
represent the school committee Manny saw plan AB board the a Wheeler planning department Craig duer representing the select board great all right thank you very much so tonight uh we're going to begin with just an opportunity for public comment
so if anyone uh from from the audience has anything to bring before the committee that would be the opportunity or an opportunity anyway and uh seeing none we'll move on to the uh first item for discussion uh
this is a uh uh we're going to be doing a presentation tonight from RGB uh architects who have been engaged in the facilities uh reuse study uh or facilities uh reuse and feasibility study I I'm not sure exactly what we ended up titling it but uh they've been
looking at uh been looking at uh municipal buildings including the old high school the town hall uh the town hall Annex and the Council on Aging uh there have been site visits to I believe all the buildings now correct so and I had a chance to uh attend the uh the walkth through of the old high school
and I know that they were you were just looking at the the annex and the town in the COA last week so uh gentlemen if you'd like to take it away be my guest thank you very much so my name is David dequatro managing principal of RGB Architects to my left is Andrew Barkley
he's also principal of RGB Architects and to my right behind me is Monica Hanley she's a business development uh executive for RGB so tonight we we have a short presentation and we have uh meetings that we've put together for
every month uh ending into about June time frame when the deliverables will finally be done the idea for tonight is to kind of kick it off and go over what we've seen some of the ideas and to all have a discussion and hopefully we can get out
of the discussion what we know the problem is and identify the problem and all agree on the problem and then we can from there talk about different strategies to get what we need to go uh Andrew has a a small presentation and then he's got some questions in the back
we did look at every one of the schools uh and we looked for you know how the school was how it acted any kind of issues we found the schools we'll go over those uh back and forth and we'll keep it open right now since it's kind of the first meeting and we just kind of get to know each other get to know what
issues we did talk to a lot of gentlemen a few of you we've met on the site so we had great discussions about historically what had taken place and we looked at all the prior uh reports that were done quite a few for the buildings and we reviewed all those as well so with that
we'll turn it over to Andrew well so I I just put a slide together thank you again for having us this evening um this is uh just a quick overview of of the high school which I'm sure you all are aware of but uh it's it's an interesting building that's built in 50 I think it
was 52 as begin 57 uh augmented uh again in the later 50s then in 77 um it's a a a large complex 155 plus or minus square feet um set up
as a school it has a fantastic Auditorium even for this day um it has large classrooms has the two gymnasiums um it has a lot of positive things about it um as a as a core building um the question would be is how
would you envision it being reused U if there's not a need um as a school anymore is there a potential to to modify it or to upgrade it and I know you've studied that since what 2016 all the way up to 20123 you even had an update on just the
code ramifications of reusing the building in a diff as a different use so um that again sort of the positive on the school um negatives are that we quickly saw uh we have to deal with uh
some structural uh resupport if it was to maintain its total uh sort of capacity uh we found some areas where there's some water damage water leakage could have a fairly large a reason for
that could be because of uh just maintenance ongoing maintenance or lack of Maintenance um it's not I mean it really has some issues maybe not so much with um uh hazardous materials but has
limitations in terms of its plumbing and it's what we call infrastructures mechanical electrical and uh uh Heating and Cooling uh conditions so again I think you all are aware of those conditions they're pretty well covered in the studies that you've done um it
seems to be the building that's been studied quite the most um looking at the space use comparison of the Annex Building the town hall building which we're in tonight and uh also the center on the Aging so if you took those
say 25 to 30,000 square feet of town buildings in order to input them into just a section of this building you'd still be in a 100,000 plus square foot Overture of space so what would you do with that if you were to keep the building that's kind of one of the
questions that that immediately comes to mind um so that's kind of a quick overview of the if I could add one thing to the high school we did notice there was a lot of water coming in underneath we initially thought it was a slab water coming up from underneath the slab the tiles and the lower level were were
coming out we went to the back mechanical room and uh we were told that on rainy days you could accumulate to three inches of water so it got our attention one of the things we do as an office we do forensic architecture which you go into an old building and try to
find out either how it's leaking why it's leaking and one of the things we noticed the obvious thing is the catch basins there's two catch basins in the courtyard and typically a catch Basin will have a ladder if it's deep enough if a catch basin's only a couple feet deep it'll just be a hole a dry well
with two drains out or one drains out that leads to either a dry well or some kind of uh septic area this one had an actual ladder which means it exceeded 6 feet in depth uh but we could only stick a measurement down there about 2 feet 2 and 1/2 ft the rest was covered with
debris leaves from God knows how many years so your pipes that would go on the bottom of that that would carry out natural water are clogged so the waterers going where it needs to go and it usually goes to its less pressure so we believe basic maintenance should
pretty much fix the the water inance into that building now there's other issues with how is the water getting in the walls are there cracks in the walls this building probably was not built with water stops and bent night and all that stuff because it didn't have or didn't appear to have any kind of water
table issues but that would need more due diligence to find out if it was in fact water table we do and have identified those catch basins as a major problem of where water is uh going there and it can't go anywhere else so the school right now is pumping out the
water putting it back in the catch Basin so it's a loop that's happening and that's why it's you know until the water settles down the water will eventually settle down through all the mck that's accumulated and go out those pipes whatever's left so a quick camera study
you put a camera down those pipes you find out where it's uh clogged you get down there and fortunately I don't think you can get access with a Backle but you get down there with a shovel and you dig it out you know manual label you can find that out that's that's the fast stuff if you want to alleviate that one I'm saying yeah no no I mean every
building you have is especially this because of how large it is and it's age the more you pick at something the more you the further it goes so it's the question of how far you want to go um to
find out where it has some some some issues to address so that that was the again I think it's a fantastic building but it's a large building needs some repair a lot of repair what will it cost to turn it into something that's useful
for Westport right so Chad I had a question yeah um how about the roof did you guys take a look at the roof we went on the lower roof yeah and it was in great condition that was the one that just had been done I believe uh we did not go into the top roof no uh but I didn't see any signs on lower roof of
any any kind of damage a lot of times if you have damage on the top roof you'll have water that comes over the edge and stains the bricks we didn't notice that um I'm sure there is if it's an older room I'm sure it needs to be maintained uh drains need to be cleaned maybe even a new roof on top of that we wouldn't go
into that kind of dive until we can kind of focus if this the building we want to go and develop if the whole committee decides this is where we want to go then we do a you know a fresh look at that I I I appreciate the catch Basin situation because we just had the same similar situation with the septic at this
building yeah it wasn't maintained overflowed they got into the dbox The Roots got to the debox Legion Fields perfect but just because of lack of Maintenance yeah we had a backup but I think we can uh by probably next week we could probably get that catch Basin
cleaned out and send send some Camas down there and see what's going on that's fantastic and then save our asset um the pipes will probably be clogged so if you can get a camera down there yeah cuz they're old clay pipes so if they trees or Roots went down there that could be another issue right in the
courtyard the in Courtyard had some ponding and we've had snow and cold winter and get it but bought out this week yeah but again it's it it's something that brought up I don't know if it's Chris or Evan mentioned we have well water right we have well water we
have septic that accounted for the school but um you know and I think it was in decent shape I don't know that you know off hand but the the the again the the conditions of the existing infrastructure are really going to have
an impact on how you might use this I think Sean could give us some input on the septic the septic system is in pretty good shape there there is a tight tank that Services the South part of the building the upper part which where the chemistry classes the chemistry Labs so that they uh that's all and that's
fairly new okay septic system fairly new and all the public water supplies are approved in grandfathered at this point although there's not a lot of yield in the well there's not a lot of yield not lot okay okay that's there a question for Jim does the town have schools at
all these roofs inspected every couple years no um I'm not sure about the schools um we we just put a new roof on the annex it's probably about uh seven or eight years old this roof was done I want to say maybe 15 years ago it was upgraded
so uh these are fairly new we just put a new roof on the uh garage out back those are pretty much job buildings and the I I say no they have been by default I guess coun on Aging is relatively new roof as well so these buildings are all fairly new I'm not sure what the
school's been doing counil on agent you have a problem with a leak over there too since the new roof there was a leak with the uh at the chimney um or the Elevator Shaft that's been addressed from what I understand yeah I did have one one
question you you mentioned uh a couple of instances where there would be a need for some structural resupport was that specific sections or no just I mean what I was picking that up was from OD day engineering the report the assessment and evaluation that they uh did so just
looking at that sort of the history tells us about the building right so the new codes we're in now what they call a zone two for earthquake we're traditionally we're in a Zone one we never had earthquakes and up until I think we we just experienced another Tremor about two weeks ago so now we're
in a zone two and a zone two means that that the building code changes and you have to have certain things that comply with new buildings this is an existing building so OD day was referring to top of the walls have to be treated where they get attached to the deck there's no signs of a moment frame a moment frame
is a frame that can withstand lateral and vertical movement of an earthquake so earthquakes move like a wave um there's none of that because that that building was not designed in the 50s for any kind of lateral movement because it wasn't Zone that way that's not to say the building's going to fall down it's
pretty building it's a block brick building it's one of the strongest type of structures you can have we saw no cracks no horizontal cracks no diagonal cracks we saw a little bit of wear in the brick the brick was in great conditions all the way through the wood
was rotted the windows needed to be replaced uh the unit ventilators were pretty shot there's a pneumatic system in there that controls the heating uh in the building in the old pneumatics was based on air and a compressor and when you hit the valve and you turned the valve a certain way it would open up the
compressor it would cause the valve to open and give a signal to the heat over time that plastic gets old creates a crack gets a hole in it and then it doesn't work anymore so the new systems are more digital systems that would have to be totally replaced so that's a
that's a big cost other than that we looked at the major I mean you see up in one of the images the auditorium the other major image was the gymnasium and the library were three large function areas and we'll get back to that in a second when we look at the other three buildings to find out how do the other
three buildings look and how do they fit into this potentially this building if that's one of your options you know we heard maybe you put an addition to the senior center U maybe you sell the senior center maybe you put additions to the town hall sell the town hall the annex we can go into all that but if you
could just remember those three major spaces which is the library the gymnasium and the auditorium three large functional spaces we can get back to that in a second on to the next one yeah yeah so again this is surface what we see initially and and we're going to go
further into it but just want to give you an overview of what we're seeing but uh so uh I don't know if it's showing up the center on whoop Center on Aging which was an old school right and been converted and there's been some money
and effort spent get the bottom I don't if you can see it or I don't know why it's doing what it's doing but anyways interesting building uh the the your uh clientele like it
they're very vocal they use it um they don't want to lose it but also don't think they're aware of what other options there may be um so again it's uh and I'm like this too the older I get the less I want to change so you get
something nice you get used to it and comfortable with it um you know there's been some upkeep here there's been some money spent there's a digital Cafe uh the kitchen has received some upgrades um they have a multi-function space where they can do exercises as well as
have you know coffee and tea service and play games so it does do a decent job uh on the first floor to I think access um the needs of of of people a bit older and uh the
bathrooms have received some upgrades as well so it's it's kind of a an old structure that's been adapted over time uh the stairs are a little bit iffy the second level is a little difficult too you can really only access it if you're Moby impaired by use of the elevator um
you know so again there's some spaces there's some renovation there are some services offered there that are really great and don't see that they should go away um but also when I take a first guess at this I would say there's nothing here that couldn't move to another building as well and be provided
um and also be at ground level and not have a separation of multiple floors um so that's kind of a one thing I picked up go ahead um to the chair Sean Could you um elaborate on the septic and the well anex uh the septic and the well I
don't know about the well the septic is fairly new and there's fairly new parking area they do have they put a lot of money into the building itself yeah there are a lot of benefactors who thank God they've stepped up over the years to keep this thing rolling yeah uh the problem again is they like that location
they like that particular place yeah uh it's the town motto I have to keep repeating it Town motto has changed is only good from a vending machine so well that's true that yeah and you know that's probably
why you get comfortable yeah they do I think they do need a lot more space some of the other things we found in the building and for mentioned the wood steps were needed some maintenance no one used them the door was locked anyway um the side com we talked to some people
they they were apprehensive on using the elevator they were afraid to going on the lower level the lower level was totally compartmentalized with a pool table in the middle we asked how many times and they do occasion I guess go down there every once in a while and use the pool table their hours only go until about 4:00 in the afternoon then the
building's empty at that point so that's a key thing is when do you use that building yeah when is that you know parochial time where it's used every day then when the kitchen had uh they were expecting a new oven and a new refrigerator were coming in that week I think it's coming in this week they were
very happy that they would had meals uh the people that we interviewed were very happy that they were giving such Services I think it was voted um the the third most or one of the top in Massachusetts for the programs to help the seniors uh with some of their issues
whether that be Mobility or that be mind and and memory um so the function of the space they said worked relatively well except when they had exercise class and they used the petition to petition them off then there was a fight for the space yeah so you know we give it a c as far
as the use it's usable but it's not really the best that it could be the the director of the Council on Aging was met with the select board this week as a matter of fact and they have to switch off their supportive Day program can only be use Monday Wednesday and Friday because they have their exercise classes
on Tuesdays and Thursdays you're absolutely right they they do great programming they're Limited in what they the numbers of people they can serve and how many programs they can do simultaneously so space although they do a fantastic job space is certainly an
issue but I think one of the other factors that that many people that use the building are concerned about moving to the new if if they were to move to the new space is parking that's close to the building right now they have as you can see you know they can park relatively close to
the building and get inside the way the current parking is set up at the um old high school it's quite a distance away right the the closest parking lot is is quite a distance away from any indoor structure so that would have to be
addressed as a as a major source for the certainly the Council on Aging if they were to utilize the kitchen at the old high school know you have you address the auditorium and the gymnasium the library I think the kitchen in the cafeteria space there which is adjacent
to the auditorium and you probably treat that as one parcel is also um very useful I mean it's it's the the old kitchen is larger than the kitchen at the new high school right uh and very functional so um I think the Council on
Aging as well as other groups would have um good use of of that space and could serve a lot more of the population than they can right now in The Limited capacity that they have so I'm sure you would address all of those things but for purposes of just ex well traditionally
the old high schools were always they made hot lunches now it's all about warming you buy it somewhere else they warm it up it's just more efficient more cost efficient and you can get a hot to them so sure sure yes I'm done um a couple years ago
I went over at the request of the director look architect supposedly I know more um and met with her and a couple of people and we talked about in Broad terms the generality at that time there was a lot of discussion even then about
moving to the new high school so I threw out on the table I said listen I don't know any of the numbers here except I can tell you it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to build an addition to this building than to try and take all of this and fit it into the high school and
R to fit the high school and all of that I said I don't know what the feasibility of it is I know there's a septic and Wells back there however is that something you even thought about and looked at you know we we did we we understood you talked about that before John we would look at that and whenever
you upgrade a building you have to upgrade other things like the fire alarm you have to upgrade um accessibility there a lot of things you're getting away with on that building because it's a it's a dated building so once you start open going to run into those in the high school we are you will you will but in in a in a macro level where you
can petition it and we'll look at both both items we'll look at both the cost benefit of putting an addition and isolating those services to that one building or combine it to another building or maybe do a little bit of both okay yeah I think Sean wasn't that pocking area all redone and kind of
maxed out yeah I think part design that not sure about the parcking but I know the public water suppli is in the back and the woods there and that limits what you can do in the back area and the septics system on the east side to the right of the building that kind of limits at least at this point it's got
165t Zone one I believe on that well which is significant 330t diameter circle basically yeah but I know that was concerned when they redid that parking that the new parking they couldn't go any further yeah exctly when you when you look at a senior center for example you look at programmatically how
that program set up that building is programmatically you're in an old school so in an old school you've got not a long type of bearing structure so the spaces are relatively small except for that one big area in front uh but then programmatically how do you work how do you function once you split into two
levels uh when you have a generation that Mobility isn't the easiest anymore or not as like when you were 20 um you would want try to put that all on the same level you'd maximize the ability to use that space uh more for the actual end user then limiting the space because
you can't get down there frequently um if there's a number of them and I don't I didn't get the age group from anywhere from I think they admitted them from 50 all the way up to 150 um and that's quite a quite a range of people that would potentially go in
that space and how do they use that space so you want to programmatically look for single level space Wide Open Spaces that could be petitioned off and they can have various things to do based on not only their age but their mobility and the Diagnostics of you know how they
function overall so that's one of the things you you look and you factor into in addition to putting an addition on and solving the immediate problem they they mentioned uh parking like John you just said they mentioned sound and transfer of sound so that some
areas will be quiet other area that's active and when they're exercising in one section there's not enough space no separation um so there's what they call the library which is really sort of the front entry room which isn't particularly a library but they call it that so again there's there's
opportunities to say redefine what they might be but to make a significant addition to this that would that would be a I mean yes it can be done anything can be done in terms of a structural uh adaptation you may have sight limits
that's going to be and water I think one of the things that I picked up on the high school as well and every is that you're all well here right Westport has the well system and you have septic there's no sewer and no water that that so that is sometimes well that's
going to be something you'd have to address for anything we do um compartmentalizing or Y I mean an expansion of use would trigger a lot of Permitting possibly permitting values on the public water supply yeah uh with new contaminated thresholds and things along
that line so that would be concerned I don't know what the limit is for the well consant agent and I I don't know if if you all had a chance to to speak with Beverly is the uh the um uh director over there uh you know does a great job
uh especially securing grant funding for a lot of the program uh but I I I've talked with her before about the projections of the population of Westport and just how many seniors uh that that the Council on Aging is expects to serve in the next you know
five 10 years and and very uh very dramatic uptick so that has to be considered too because I mean it's already kind of bursting it the seam so so you know where what an addition with the limitations considered would that would I mean if you look
around increase in the Aging of the population what sorry Mr D I I was going to say that demographics are going up but the parking space is limited unless you get additional parking it's going to be hard to expand programming at that site because you're already having
programs and uh you understated it because actually there exercise cost more days in some cases you have the meals program bumping up against the exercise program yeah and you have um and that so-called waiting area is also
an office I mean so so these Dual Purpose areas are incompatible uses but the biggest uh uh I think hangup is parking unless you can expand the parking it's going to be hard to expand program as a participant in one of those
programs for a while um yes I'm over um you know you you yeah um you know it it when you're between programs The Changing of the Guard and one one is coming in and the other is coming up that parking lot is near
capacity um so would sh Services is something that can be considered if going to the old high school I'm sorry a question the shuttling services actually yeah we actually toured with Bill who's one one
of the bus drivers who does bring uh you know uh patrons back and forth because of limitations of either ability or just because they're further away or because of parking if there's no so um I know they have that serves I don't know how
long it goes per day in terms of time but they have rotating drivers so that's right positive so I I would say this in a program and I think it's an exciting program that has a lot of potential to grow yeah right
now it's you know it's it's basically conf serving its purpose for just what it has but you could grow that a little bit more where you don't look at it as somewhere that a person would have to go because they can't be mobile
you could look at it opportunities for learning and educating from the age of 50 and up 50 is what used to be 40 so they're still very very active you could have a gym inside a space like that um you know video has come so far you could
have Dancing Yeah a movie theater um and you could bring a lot of the culture from around the area into that and one of the things Bill to us is that there's people outside of Westport that visit it quite often so you got to look at it as an opportunity um and again you look at the
function you look at the program and how does that program then fit into other spaces and can it and can it make a multiple use out of that an overall cost I think that particular lot that facility is that build out other than going up for a second floor I don't
think you can do much of anything uh with expansion to this facility I really limited I think they looked at that uh six or seven years ago when they doing the parking I think when I when I spoke with Beverly though even if they moved to the high school they would still like
to have certain programs at that I don't think you building but I think you know they could have other programs you know on other days people with more need or something okay maybe becomes a function hall you
know next slide yeah yeah sure we'll go through these and we'll kind of summation back to what we some of the things collectively as we put them together so the town hall Annex has that really cool gymnasium in the back that used by what kindergarten program that's
about it right now Recreation program Recreation program all right so if I State we use it every single day right um the preschool that's there uses it every day in the morning we have Play and Learn parent talk groups um that happen three
times a week we have after afternoon programs um we have gym rentals almost every day every weekend um it's used all the time it's a beautiful SP yeah really is great those old fur floors very
beautiful it used to be the high school that used to be the high school right and so pre 3E 52 yeah I wasn't here but oh yeah yeah so I we get our money's worth out of the buildings as you can see yeah so I found that old photo of it
it's in many ways it still has exact similar form right it's been added on to but exact You Know It uh it's it's it's in a very similar condition as the school what we found on that building other than the gym they're very small spaces yeah uh and it's very inefficient
use of space we have a central caror which typically will lend you to an efficient space but the central Cara is extremely wide yeah so and it was conducive to a school so it matches a school in its form and its shape so that's what it was was a school but now
you're trying to Retro into an office so what we found is that we were putting people in these office spaces that weren really fitted out as you can see the bottom right someone was tucked into a corner with some f cabinets that divide them they had air conditions that would
plug into the windows um they had Doors door Hardwares that didn't function correctly um it was definitely a retro space let's stick them in here they can use this space we own this building let's use that so it's not the most economic and efficient use of a space
for that function in fact what we found was that you could probably take those functions and combine them I there's got to be an inefficiency with which you have a town hall and the town air having two different buildings and if you put them together you'd have a lot more efficient um set of uh practices with
probably a lower overhead overall so although was a great building and it's a great fabulous gym it's very much uh stuck in where it was when it was built for its use it has a huge water problem too floor or just ground table oh water
supply all right another can you elaborate on that a little bit well the Well's collapsed I don't know how many times in the last 20 years uh seems like on a yearly basis new wells new something it's got a for whatever reason uh the wall keeps
collapsing and whatnot but and there were two issues last last year right was it two yeah so I I think it's on its third well overall right the old well is right next to the building we used the one about 30 40 ft away from the building for a number of years that collapsed last year put a new well in
but the well driller said that um he would consider this well temporary he said it could last a year it could last 15 years he said he didn't that's the current well was considered temporary okay yeah but it not now that building Sean isn't it I mean that's a pre-existing non-conforming the well
doesn't the clone of influence I mean can you drill a new well like that you probably drill well way in the back and why I think it's been a convenience thing where we just kind of moving it further away from the building I don't know how far back if if if we were to expand the use we would have to meet the
new requirements what they allowed us to do because if was emergency situation was put the well pretty much right next to the other well which is so we'd need a 500 foot cone of influence if we were going to expand on it yeah overall there's is area out back uh that
the town owns Court you know yeah goes back far yeah okay okay but it was it's a ways away from the building and then you really don't even so what would its capacity be right what would it Supply so I don't know if problem I think it's just the wealth
is had the problem the I don't know why it would keep collapsing I'm not understanding I don't know if there's a good reason for it but they find out how many feet of casing they drove maybe not put enough casing in they did he put additional casing this time too but they
still protected but he's still uh after once they did the pump out the 48 hour test the they observed additional more sand in the well and they weren't sure why which well for the septic but not so much for the well but I don't know what if you move it way back whether it
be get the same thing or better or worse it's a difficult space for the employees there I mean for to to be an employee in that building is challenging yeah you're going to go to work every day exactly I mean efficiency too I mean I mean I think we shouldn't have an Annex if we
get a space big enough I mean we we we got a um we got a new we got a building inspector that's filling in for Ralph came in and that was one of his things that he said you know it's having a different set of eyes on how more efficient we'd be if we were in one more
building and everybody was together you're paying for a space it's this big by utilizing this much space so it's a except for the gym it's it's like it's like the other building know they they're attached to it cuz it was the Earl school and not saying that we well
and and we mentioned uh this lady behind me mentioned great things about the gym is because it's a big open space multi-purpose multi-use right same thing and that's kind of one of our things where we're really short on gym space yeah and kind of one of the reasons why most of the residents in town don't want
to lose the old high school too sure so I mean we don't want to give up any of those those spaces we you know the kids need them you know it's cuz in the high school What's called the library was actually a gymnasium Point yes right so you had the small gym then the new gym
and then you have the auditorium those are large spaces they're expensive to build new right that's the thing you have it how how do you use it effectively and uh I'm sorry I'm jumping back is there a because Dia would need
some water when she's in this building is the water shut off to the building or like has it been is it no there's water there but they same with this building we have U water yeah yes I wouldn't necessarily drink the
water over there okay now was just that that water has been tested right we yeah it it has been tested it's treated um yeah we have a small filtration system over there soce building and then the ne the next is right next door so where we are
right now so again cool beautiful structure had some service um it was initially designed you know load bearing it was set up as office spaces right it's a town hall it's really tough to think of how it might be used in
another way if that was an option um it's you know it's office cell structure for its day and this time that was that was the the the method for compartmentalizing but now is that really efficient I don't know I think we
had one person in every maybe two people in every um space but uh so sorry you could gut it gut it yeah yeah you'd have to restructure it right Offices Medical offic yeah be housing
could be exactly repurposing is definitely some value in repurposing it has two eress stairs on either side and it has an elevator right has an abundance of safes that are just used for uh just storage of Old Paper right uh file storages that could be condensed
and it could be down on the base B if you really had to do that somewhere El this room was at one time with the public library this room really this what this this room here space this room to say before that it was the police station oh yeah the police station was
downstairs okay sure it makes sense you know and then again it's evolved over time right and it's somewhat it's somewhat limited to whatever function like as an office space now I think it's it's somewhat timed out but John you're correct it could be you know you could
be modified it could be sold it could be compartmentalized you guys modifi we have we have we've done them two ways this reminds me of Kendall Dean in nor Smithfield built around the same area they actually modified that to be a bigger Town Hall so they put an addition
on the back where the Town Council meets they made some play fields in the backyard so they modified a building like this in in the 30s that was uh pre second world war or maybe a little bit postc War War right around the 30s and the 40s um and it was done and they have the same
setup where they have old classrooms that turned into to office spaces it's not the most efficient use of space they have older Windows the electrical lines inside the walls and the ceilings are dated so you need more Outlets uh the HVAC system is generally controlled by one or two thermostats so some people
are hot some people are cold they're forced to bring in little heaters they increase the amperage with the circuit boards not used for that it's a fire hazard the central boiler system is a central boiler system instead of a more efficient system that looks around the
entire building um the fresh air intake is not functioning right now so it just takes fresh air in as much as it gets so if it's Z degrees then you're fighting that Zer degree day on the space that's above you rather than controlling it by a mechanical and that's nothing that's
out of the ordinary even the high school didn't have a functioning damper system on it I just had an open vents so I believe Jim don't we have a grant to redo the hva system here we do right now we have a a grant we're working on WE we've been awarded the grant to replace
heating system for a new HVAC system good um still working on the pricing the pricing is going up every yes every couple of months so we're hoping that the grant will still cover the cost are we going to be able to stay in this building while that's that that happens they're looking at that right
now well should you do that if you're not going to yeah that's another well well I think I think for the building you know moving forward if you got a grant unless you can't transfer the grant over but my concern with that was was I believe there's they encapsulated
the asbest in here so I don't I don't know if it would be an option to install a whole new heat in air condition so we we just had that tested for the asbest in and doing a report now so we'll know in a week or two and you're proposing split systems right yes so split systems
gives you a little bit more efficiency but it doesn't give you natural air it just pumps in cold or hot gives you the benefit of having air condition in every space you can control a modulate depending on cre your comfort but it doesn't have that natural fresh air intake the old days when they did these
buildings they had single pane uh windows so if you go up to a single pane window when it's really cold you can actually feel the air coming in there's your fresh air and that's how the engineers did it back in the day so once you put a tight a window you need to get some fresh ear in inside that's makeup
units that's sometimes duck work or multiple units that adds cost if you're keeping these windows here now that's a that's a great solution split system for out but you want to keep the fresh air coming into a building so the carbon dioxide levels don't go up you don't get
tired around 2 o'clock no it isn't because you had a big lunch it's because the oxygen level goes down in the space and you you get a little bit more tired so those are some of the things you'd have to look at the building if you had to Retro it if you had to use it to another use like John suggested maybe be
a condo use or uh an apartment use uh they would have to do similar things they could put fresh air intakes in the a periodically I sit down guys and everybody I talk to says this is where the town hall ought
to be because yeah it isn't the banks are here gas here so that's kind of go into do it absolutely preclude moving at something point I don't think so but I think it's
a consideration I I had a conversation with a local developer who does this red do buildings basically takes Municipal Building turns into condos and whatnot and he said in his opinion I'm not say
mine the town would get financially better off by selling these two and keeping the high school and renovating that because a developer that would buy the high school would pay a lot less money than he would to these two buildings per square foot per square yeah per square foot yeah that makes sense yeah perhaps and the bones of the
high school would cost us a lot more to builds yeah but a developer wouldn't pay much for high school because the money that would have to go in to make it us usable would be a lot more per square foot than it would this building or the annings would be what's your opinion on on putting housing in there what are the
holdbacks of that what type of housing well we've I'm not I'm I'm a fan of moving all municipal buildings and that's what I'm hearing from the people but we do have a group that's looking put affordable housing in night the problem is upgrading that to beef affordable
housing I mean yeah you can do Mini Splits for you make every classroom a unit I guess and Mini Splits and all these other things but the price to do that for a developer you end up selling the high school for you know $100,000 what about the septic in that's that's a
different issue you know that's that again that would all be factored into what they could do bathrooms historically there's a lot of fill in fill there it's not even it's also changing use right and that triggers the building code yeah and so that that has
been the biggest argument against you know um right now with that that building is a combinate is mostly an educational use but also is in use for municipal office space because the school administration has been there so
you you but if you would have repurposed it into housing it would trigger yeah any any change any change of functional that basic use what what type of fill did they put in there I heard that Sean Sean has it better the
fil filled in area at the old high school like perk test so so forth why they move the septic way out back well yeah I mean that's really crappy all that land back there it's very wet most of us filled Wetlands actually um you look you walk past the
basball field you'll see what what you're dealing with you walk south of there the parking lot South the building you see what you're dealing with it's basically rocks and Wetland what about where the building is do they anyone remember if there's any fil you a pig farm pig farm up front in town and most
of it's filled in the back like most of the where the fields are are mostly filled so but not the actual structure that sit on but we we we also have um some new Fields behind that softball and you know tying a like a cross country track through there and I mean the place
is used in the summertime like you know like how we are we saying the the kids are using the annex you know the the older kids are all all summer along that's where they are yeah I mean I I don't know where they're going to go if we lose that building you know well even right even with the schools today the
current High School uses those ball fields they do not have B you know sufficient ball fields of their own so if we were to lose that space the outdoor space the town would be in a position where we would be looking for other land to be able to build more
field so it's you know you get nothing for that lot because of the structure that's on it and to remove the structure is very costly uh and then now you still have to go and find space for the fields new Fields so it's a catch22 every time every time you look at some at a
solution you find that it's going to create a different problem so yeah and I don't know uh whether it for the future use for school because of capacity limits or whatever but that location traffic wise is one of
the best locations you get right off 88 you come 177 right to it you come it's an easy location to get two and from without running through every residential community in the town as opposed to the new high school which if you go on there yeah after 7:00 in the morning what what would be good for
expanded Ambulance Service I mean you got a nice Garage in there put a couple more ambulances in there and and as as we get older we're going to need more ambulances is that the that the location of high school is the center of the town right geographically the center of the Town we're in geographic center but
that's the population Center that's closer to the yeah okay population center for the foreseeable future yeah okay so we did a internal uh review of this whole process in our office and
it's a Friday we have wine and cheese come up great idea yeah we we we have yeah we have we supposedly wine and cheese we call it design and wine on Friday afternoon I don't drink but you know we has whiskey at his day but I
brought it up and and asked every we you know I don't know how many 15 of us in there and and just show them and describe the process and said what do you all think what do you think and these are people from 23 to however old I am so you know everyone had a
different take on it and they're like oh you know some of the takeaways were U there's a a a physical uh it's called long Flex they're like if there was some type of a physical activity uh component to that
high school people would come from Fall River they'd come from Dartmouth there there'd be a there'd be a a need for something like this in the community that would be really great another comment was um Revenue enh Revenue enhancing they said U what about medical is there Urgent Care nearby is
there something where or a support um we call it Thundermist where we've done these little fit outs in high schools for students who need um size psychological social and even Medical Care um which is an outside vendor but
using an older space within a high school that's an option that's kind of interesting so they're bringing up a lot of different thing they said what about Elder it's going to be elderly housing or assisted living and I see that in some of the studies there's been different options but one of the comments was that it's great access that
you can come from Dartmouth you can come from PA River you can come from the farms in Westport you can come from the beach and it's easy to get to and it's recognizable so they thought that was a real good benefit but the farmers market idea yeah so one of the guys that works
with this his mother and father-in-law live uh in Westport and live on the I guess he said on the other side they have a small farm and he said they would love to have a farmers market so if there were space that at the high school that you could come and have an outdoor
farmers market or indoor outdoor farmers market that would be a the he said the farmers would love it the um it'd be a fantastic um opportunity to come and uh use some space if there's a space that's allocated for that use who runs that who
manages it if it's a profit Center I don't know how that works but it was an interesting idea um and we currently we do currently run a farmers market through through one of our local councils here and sometimes it's runs runs indoors in in during the winter
months for abbreviated period of time but every Saturday and it does get a very good crowd there's limited space you know it's on concrete over at the annex as a matter effect is where they run it but not centrally located to the population Center but C so you know
people come and do all of their errands here you know maybe on a Saturday morning um but it is very popular and I think that you would have um I think I think the vendor participation is limited yeah maybe that's due to space
um I I don't know that end of it as to why there's limited you go to other communities they have much larger group of vendors that that um that show there yeah uh ours is a little bit smaller um but success nonetheless um so I think
that that could certainly be enhanced you know with you we have we have music in the morning and um it um it is a draw and I think that it would be great if we could expand it and enhance it the sub degree so the the four biggest the four
biggest areas that we talked about the Andrew just elaborated on all revenue enhancing ideas right revenues that were a public private type partnership that you can bring something in and utilize some of maybe the extra space that you have in that that building and that site and that would draw from other communities and bring it in and that
would feed itself I think the biggest impediment for a Farmers Market expansion in that current space is parking parking right and and display area so you you're you're you're you're limited I mean if you were to get really
expansive and start expanding the type of products looking at um food trucks perhaps right exactly getting Regional farmers market then you would may need a much larger space right than the one we have one we have now is sort of a boutique you know a couple of farmers
locally it's great during the summer I think it barely staggers along I think the Music is More the dra in the in the winter than than the actual products right summer is the other way around yeah yeah no and even like Recreation when they have those outdoor events and
the bands I mean it's you go there and it's packed and and you know there's a lot of people that aren't going just because they know how packed it is yeah so I mean it could expand on that too that was one of the comments is larger if there's a larger space more would participate I like okay I didn't know
that even you know that's coming from someone who's here you know that sees that so so as we develop in these next couple of months we look at these things and we develop things like if you did have that type of use how would it affect parking what would it look like
on a site plan what would this space look like what would the other spaces look like and then we would go into maybe go to the next slide now yeah maybe then you'd go into uh what does it cost to maintain what does it cost to take down if the idea is to take the
high school down and use it for a new uh Town Hall a new Senior Center what does it cost to take that building down now so we know that new construction of that similar construction type are up to like $800 a foot when you when you put all
the systems inside of it where if you may main that building and did something to the renovated you could spend $3 to $400 a foot and that would be a total gut renovation job because your structure is still there uh the the most expensive part of that building is still there so we will look at different
various uh ideas and cost models uh that'll drive us one way but these are some of the questions that you know Andrew put together you know first one I looked at is identify the problem yeah what I mean we we we've talked about the individual building but I guess the
major question is what it what do you perceive the space the space need to be when I say program is what is the program type that you prefer to pursue because we've already talked about we have senior on you know senior citizens
we have need for maybe uh exercise and augmenting to the high school we have the annex uh we have the town hall again those programs already have a certain type of condition in a space they need or or can adapt to um but I didn't I
don't know which way to go um that seems to be the most effective and I can't speak for Westport right you have to you're the community so one of the things I when I look at the building and and the size of it and I'm thinking of a
of a phased renovation yes occupi like like we have a need for the municipal offices say we we found an area and what we needed to do to move that in and then we could we could phase into you know the other areas for Council on Aging or whatever they wanted to do and
gymnasiums and all of that stuff I I just think the space and the bones are there and I and I think that would be a good good use the the biggest thing is once you identify the problem we all agree on a problem and I think we can agree on the problem in my opinion the
problem is you have multiple buildings in town that are inefficient that are still costing you money to operate and you're looking at a problem saying how do I do this how do I consolidate the use of it how do I incorporate new standards and being better programmed to that building while at the same time I
lower my overall cost to make it more efficient and it doesn't include just bringing the space over you also have to fit that space out so it's not just you know we'll just take these old desks and we'll prop them up over there you want something that's sufficient long term uh and good term and look at this table
we're working with we got a new one coming yeah a new comp but so you want you want the the thing fitted out for its intended use for its programmatic use as well and the other thing you want to do is you want to get the excitement around the town I understand this town has a history of not passing a lot of
fonds and it's usually the north onto the South right You' have the younger crew and the older crew and the older crew's ideals are different than the younger crew I agree I don't know if that's true uh I think I think Town steps up when it need
recognizes a problem okay that's good for Capital structures for structures abely for structures exclusions yeah so so I understand there was a bond that was floated for infrastructure connecting uh the water
lines to the sewer and whatnot and that failed so that's a that's something that's important because if you bring these multi-uses to this one building you want that support it's first thing you got have to deal with is how do you get all this water how do you get all this septic how do you control that so
that's one of the cost that you bring in but there's also benefits to that as well once you bring that and connect that utility it also brings other Revenue into the town because now you have that added utility so go ahead Mr chair um just a question I noticed on
one of the documents that uh had been sent over you talked about the and this ties into what you were just saying the cost of doing nothing right which I think is an important concept especially for the you know for the town understand because you know it's I think clearer to see the costs associated with doing something like
moving offices or whatever it may look like but there's also a cost associated with leaving things the way they are yeah which is you know only as we've seen piled up over the years as as the building's been sitting so I think there's there's two two major uh things to consider on that front one of is no
matter what we're looking at uh increased maintenance costs doing nothing but I think there is a bit of a misconception in the town uh as as to just how much that building is being used now today I mean there's there's you know you have you have wck League uh
basketball you have uh you know the there's still some some this the daycare the or the out of the at of school time um there there's there's programming and things that happen in that building now as it is um and I think that like I said it's kind of like an out of side out of
mind if you don't necessarily go there for one of those programs you're thinking it's just sitting there you know not not being utilized and again as as Miss Brown mentioned if you take away the building and the and the field specifically then that opens up a whole new problem of of having to uh having to
build out new fields for for school for the school use as it is so that's something yeah and I think there's also a misconception that people think oh well you know the town should sell the land and take that money and you know and reinvest it as Sean indicated as it stands that building is not worth a lot
of money to anyone else we have value in it because of the fields and if someone else were to retrofited how how much are they truly going to pay for that piece of land very little right very
little and and that cost I mean I think that that's a number that has been floating three I was going to say three or4 million you're right so no matter what we do is Mr gendro was starting to say no matter what we do the cost of doing
nothing is rather significant right if the the town did not did not want to approve a uh an override for uh town uh expenditures just for for operating
funds I would dare to think what they would what they would think about floating a bond issue of 4 million and you get nothing in return all you're going to do is get a torn down building and that's it there is a cost of doing nothing and I think that that's the
element that start million right start at four you know and then maybe you know with the associated costs go maybe it's four and a half five million this and that is we going to need more
school space I I think it's I think I would I I think I think that for the purposes of this this committee and this study I think we should put to bed the idea that that is going to be a school space going forward I think I think going back to that question just um kind
of we we we kind of lose lose the plot a little bit I just I just don't if but aren't they using it for after school programs now currently using it for for uh some some after school programs but that's but that's but it's not it's not class it's not a classroom it's not anru but but but I'm saying future it's going
to going to get worse before it gets better I think there's two things to consider here one is I'm not in favor of getting rid of the land right right the issue is the building itself the land and the facilities around the building need to stay M the question is you know
concentrate on the building great great with your just getting quickly with the school right for school use if we use it for school purposes that's the primary and probably only use we could use it for right you can't have combined uses when you have
the school right exactly we can't really get into the gym on the day the Council on agent can't use it because the school's there you know you need Cory Jackson everything else so in order to use that building for school you would need 7 800 kids to make it worthwhile you can't have a combin rust to increase the population that much in students I
don't see that happening anytime in the near future I think the school would be obsolete before we reach that population with a new high school that you just built did I'm I'm sure with mass School building you had to do
a demographic study right we did do a demographic study and then that show where you're going in the next six eight should go out 10 years did it say you're stable growing do you remember I think it was fla I think we Prov it I think it's fair to say there was a lot of back
and forth and and on you know yeah we we picked because I was on the school building committee back when that decision was made before I one of myat um we picked the very conservative growth strategy yeah and we did not anticipate certain things we we we
thought we were have zero population um growth in zero school we did not realize that the parochial school system which people have been fleeing for years uh from Westport to use would implode uh and and we're left really with one uh
high school and that the middle schools that were in adjacent communities and the El elementary schools with one or two exceptions are all gone yeah so we just lost that and that I think we've we've peaked in terms I mean that there
is some capacity to absorb more high school age students into the vog tech and even the AI school system because they are expanding the capacity but those schools still have waiting lists that are longer than any additional
students that we would be sending them right H so Bas yeah even though Val we should at least take a hard
look that maybe break it yeah break compartmentalize take a piece away easy to do frankly what about the new high school do they have Provisions for an addition in the future for future growth there's land land problems there space I mean and one of the other confining
issues of I don't have the answer I'm just saying part of this thing I think it's got to be considered and looked at a little bit we had the superintendent in a couple times I could never quite get a clear answer whether they're projecting
growth or not but with got new things Happ got a train system well I think I think you gentleman's right when he says don't get rid of the land no we we did a um North Smithfield RH Island we did a middle school and we went to look at 32 sites
in the town because they didn't have any sites we ended up on the existing High School site so land is of a premium I would not get rid of uh land for that type of use if you had to put another building on there you have the land to do that it strikes me odd that they build a new high school and they didn't
have Provisions for maybe an additional floor no additional they do have Provisions for expansion they do how big that expansion is I don't know but I know that I want to say four classrooms can be done on the west side but the the the most important thing is to consider
that lands in the exact location that we need it so why get rid of right so the next thing we want to look at is do you and I think we've talked about this a little bit tonight is the significance of the the pieces of the buildings that we're looking at is there any historic architectural significance
we um talked to the gentleman I think his name is Bill right from the senior center and he was told us that they've all passed now but there were some seniors that actually went to school there originally there was some significance to them sentimental at least yeah right and that's always going
to be a trigger point where people don't want to do things cuz that's the way it was and we were great back then and why can't we keep it the way it is it's the old stuff the new stuff and like Andrew was talking about earlier so it's change so are there any significant pieces of
these buildings that are significant value to the town you said abely cannot I don't think unless somebody all of a sudden becomes president or something and uh declares declares I went to school at the annex for third
and fourth grade scary a little scary but I don't think it you know I know there's probably thousands of people went through that school I'm not sure there's a historical I mean it was the high school and yeah the town of Westport won
the state championship football but I mean other than that I don't know if there's any historical significance to uh any of the buildings that matter I mean there is a uh sentimental value I think to a lot of people
yeah in which way uh just the fact that the build it's iconic the buildings are you go through Central Village and you see the town hall you see the annex which used to be the ear school which used to be the high school which you and sitting out on the road and you get the playground there and people go there and
that's just uh for lack of having you know Westport as basically as a conglomeration of Villages yeah uh like having a Village Green this has become the default Village Green sure if if I if I could ask Jim is there any legal
consequences regarding CPC funds that have been used on this building or at the Council on Aging my understanding there's no historic preservation that were restrictions that were applied use funding um it is a CPC Grant there were a few CP
yeah a number of CPC grants for this building I know they did the roof and I think they they may have done the windows years ago over the annex but um the roof here um tile floors um ele no the elevator was a grant a few other things and over at the Council on Aging
Council on Aging I believe it be CPC funds as well how about any known deed restrictions I'm not aware of any deed restrictions how about any uh Brownfield any environmental stuff environmental here um yeah not the anex though also
I'm not aware of anything at the an how about the counil on Aging not aware of the Council on Aging either they're old enough that which the environmental here you think we could get a get a list of all all those areas in town what like the Brownfield type stuff environmental
stuff I imagine we can get that from d what we have here there was some oil tanks I believe that leaked over at the highway department area we've had uh test Wells out here for 20 30 40 years who's who's who's the
town LSP that's doing that testing from the Board of Health there what's the guy's name um it'll come to me in a minute I can't think of the guy's name either no no um yeah I don't know it was it was a single gentleman in LSP who was doing
the testing at the head and doing a lot of work for the town he does the landfill he does this but come with farms and who's who's reviewing that who's reviewing that stuff where do that go to what department imagine the Board of Health I when I was on the board of health being monitored
yeah it was the mtbe issue with they pulled the tanks that c in farms and Town garage and okay I don't know where it's going they're reporting that stuff to EP all every every year like they should right under the mass contingency y so we
should be able to get up on the DP website and find that you can get on the gis and it'll list it'll List It does anyone have any other issues with these buildings they want to let us know about any significance whether that be a historic environmental function
use they were still in still in the discussion items here the same you know the overall discussion so question is I tell you what my concern is my concern is this been meeting for
how many years now I'm concerned one of these days at people going stand up and say what you guys been doing and and what do you think as of today we couldn't come in there and say what you
think Alles and what so I sort of sense we put our toes to fire here and figure out a game plan of how we're going to get all the out look at them make some
decisions get us some recommendations reasonable amount well this committee has twice recommended to the select board that they pursue renovating that High School twice this committee has recommended to the select board well I I I probably have said this
every meeting and I'll say it again um the the thing that I am most excited about the way you all are approaching this is is that I think this is the first real in-depth study that's been done that's actually going to show a cost benefit analysis correct look at you know what is the cost of doing
nothing what is the cost that's going to be needed to put into these buildings if we you know were not to consolidate or something you know so I think you know that that's the reason for this study taking the approach that it is so that we can actually have options with with
real you know my my concern some of the facilities in each of the buildings uh serves a a valuable purpose yeah I think mostly the old high school uh the town lacks a an indoor place a
gathering indoor place even for town meeting of sufficient size the new high school is way uh too small uh it's not adequate at all uh gymnasium they have a better weight room
than they have in a gymnasium I think at the new High School uh and that gymnasium at the old high school is very valuable and the lock Rooms To Go With It uh obviously the fields have been discussed I mean that's I don't think any land should be given anyway to
anything so that would conclude some of the development options on that facility and any of these facilities unless you're all right going to sell the land with it right it's my understanding that last winter 400 kids used the basketball uh
facility the gymnasium in you know private basketball league a youth basketball league and it was 400 kids I mean that's a lot uh that go rotate through there and we're not a town or an area that has a lot of activities
particularly in in the winter I mean we have a wonderful Recreation program that could be expanded even further or enhanced even further to if if they had a large indoor facility that they could use those programs for right now they
you know they they try to use whatever they can find to to do that and they do a great job mostly at that Annex in the gymnasium in the annex and so just think if they had a large modern facility uh that could serve other purposes um it
would serve the Youth of this town in a tremendous way I mean you know we talk about the seniors and but the youth the the the capacity to have youth programs I think would be greatly enhanced um by having a larger mod modern more modern facility to be able
to use them for combined with outdoor space so what we plan on doing next is to try to stud we receive the budget for the town but I'd like to know individual building costs what that is whether that be uh utility cost or that you have to hire someone to maintain that building
right whether that be a building superintendent a building manager does one do three buildings two buildings and what is the cost of all that the upkeep like I said the utilities and add all those costs that would be the benefit and then what is the cost that you're currently spending
on the high school in terms of utilities and then what Revenue are you getting back are you I know there's a daycare and the annex that's a potential Revenue that comes in is there any other potential revenue does the senior sener give you any potential Revenue at all through uh people that are outside
Westport do they pay fee what is that revenue and try to find out the balance that exist right now before we can go into what could be uh for potential use we'll look at I did check with a couple of demolition companies you are very accurate three to4 million uh that's
what we're getting for prices right now to take a lot of it's unknown because when once you take that's why I asked that question about the fill that got my a question because I didn't know that was fill but that that's good that they didn't fill the building CU in the 50s they would fill swamps and build buildings on them well you said it was a
pig farm so we we have several found that yeah they filled it with everything yeah so you know you you you look at that and say okay once I open that up now I got to treat it to today's standards uh but if I expound on it and modify it I can retain it to the
standards that have existed for 50 60 years which is far more reasonable in terms of cost of construction and reconstruction than just to take it down but we'll look at all those CL uh things and come back with that analysis and then with some ideas of what we can do
uh for those buildings now some of the ideas we come back with may not be favorable there's no reason you know to uh get upset about them that's how we're going to steer this we're not going to have your answer next month it's going to take us a little bit of time to guide It's like a pinball we're going to be kind of moving to see what is the cost
analysis but what is the stomach of the town a lot of times in towns where you have a split population you try to please both ends of the population you had mentioned phasing which is an excellent idea uh when you phase it it takes a little bit better for the appeti it takes longer to do and more expensive
to do because prices keep increasing as that phase go in there but as long as it's on a a trajectory towards that goal and you know what that goal is you can build it out towards that people start seeing the value of that goal um and then it's it's intended use so use every
type of use you could for those existing parts of that high school if you want to develop that as the the overall building how do you develop those parts what do those cost individual is there an option to saw cut them off we talked about the gym being used a lot as an example you
take the gym off and use it for something else parking and whatnot a lot of you say no hell no right 400 kids this year I'm using that as an example there are different things you can take off and uh you know classroom buildings classroom spaces are pretty restricted the ones in the 50s are a little bit
more more wider spans than the let's say the annx buildings which were concentrated to smaller spaces because of the spans so we' look at that as well for that potential use and reuse it I think DAV it almost David's famous for saying this he'll come in and
say we want a master plan but what we're trying to get to is on a of of a list like a wish list or items you really think you need then you take those and you plan them out so you have a master plan for how these things may be in the
end but you phase it as what can we afford first what can we afford next what can we afford three and four so in 10 years you may achieve what you want but the impact and cost is not so great it's not one lump sum bam 80 million
bucks maybe it's 5 million maybe it's 10 maybe you know incrementally you get to where you need to be um in 10 to 12 years out right there's a way to do that well from a coding standpoint how how
can that be achieved or can that be achieved if we were to uh want to use part of that space say you know three years five years we're only going to you how much does it impact the entire building from a from a from a code
standpoint well I think we'd have to look at how you could compartmentalize it almost like again like not that you're going to you mothball one piece of it if if it stays one building I don't see how that would work cuz you can't have one boiler Ser one piece but
if it's if it's sections that you know that you can occupy they're going to need to be brought up to standard anyway so it may have its own heat and its own Cooling and it then do you have the infrastructural capacity do you have the water for the restrooms do you have gas for that you or whatever the the need is
for that piece and then you're looking ahead but what will I need for the next do I oversize this knowing that the second one's coming so I think that you could strategically do it that'll be a little bit more in depth yeah Master plans typically will take on not small to large but large to small yeah because
a lot of the infrastructure you have to put in whether that be utilities whether that be um mechanical upgrades right yeah you so a lot of times you know you do a bond for say a school system and they spend $5 million and all they do is replace the windows and the heat people say what do we just
spend $5 million on they don't understand it because you don't I mean mediately see it so you sprinkle it with things that you can immediately gain that be function spaces so you have a little bit of a function space but you uh do the infrastructure that's connected that phase one uh phase two
may be another piece of the uh puzzle gets added on with a little bit more infrastructure put on to that and you balance that off and people start to see that but you agree on a master plan schedule you agree on what the cost will be today and what it's going to be tomorrow and people see it as a bigger
bigger plan because if you Andrew's right if you hit the taxpayers with 800 millionar to do all this just throwing those numbers out those aren't real numbers just a big number they they will a lot of them will just say no way I can't afford that you're going to take me right out of this beautiful town that I love right and that's not the
objective the objective is how do you transition something that should have been transitioned along the way but obviously you have a new high school that was where your focus was so now what's the next step is to transition this slowly and if I can just sprinkle a little thought is anything that re uh
generates Revenue right so you almost have to throw that throughout the whole project because if you see okay so not everything is coming out of the taxpayers but there is a component that's generating Revenue to pay for
maintenance exactly right pay for the m and and I think that component of Revenue it's important in the whole process good point the devel was in the building and I think you had a you going down a
good point a few minutes ago we said well certain buildings or certain land is worth more than others and then you have the cost of doing nothing on top of so there there's a plus and minus back and forth It's a SE SL effect okay the high school is probably the
biggest albatross in terms of of value of the property but some of the properties that have these unique features that people love and and don't want to change are going to be some of our biggest potential Revenue sources for financing some of the things that we would like to do right so those are
going to be the tradeoffs that I'd like to see sometime in the next couple of presentations so that you can do that value clarification of what what we want versus what we need and I think as a committee I think we got to go down that road together
we're not just going to say you know here it is and unveil this this big dream we're all going to come to the same conclusion and the the hopes is that as we come to the same conclusion the people around us people in the public will also see the benefit of that conclusion and everyone will be for it
it's not going to take rocket science because what I heard tonight we're all on the same page we all know what exists we all know the big elephant that exist it's just how do we get there two quick than I know time one I like to see and I don't know how it gets
done solicitation out there in the community and everywhere every idea that anybody has out on the table now so we can just not have them all come in at the end of flush them out now there's
ideas out there we never thought about I'll show you an example this is in that little thing that they hand out at lead there's a couple women who were looking for space all over the place and they're in Fall River now they started over in Newport some they're probably not that's
exactly the kind of thing but U yeah leasing a space to start a business I encourage us to think about we getting some articles in the paper on the website I don't know what means of
communication anybody everybody got an idea it on the table and what I always say John is is you got to show people the problem they have to agree on the problem right so if we do all that due diligence of the numbers you present that in a public form maybe we don't
have it here maybe we have it in the existing Auditorium where people can all go to that space and then we present those problems those are the numbers with potential options and have a similar meeting to this where you get those people from all over giving you different ideas now that they're armed
with the basis of that that knowledge of how much it cost to do nothing the other half talk then you one way through those various options and then analyze it on a cost
basis a use basis code basis and all these other things and hopefully come down a couple things that we present so uh to to uh the point about uh you know future public meetings um the schedule that you all presented has
four additional meetings I believe the next one would be uh March 19th which is Wednesday night um and it you had noted that it would be an options workshop with a a focus on on previously considered options uh for that one um my
question is would it and this the Me the Meaning following would be a new options development Workshop would it be worth kind of moving up and say both of those might be more uh more focused not focused but I mean would would we would open up it up to new options and then
solicitations like uh or new ideas is you know put it out there to people want to bring new IDE I think the danger is when you try to tell them new options without first hearing them they may reject those options you want to let them have the facts let them come
up with different options we'll look at all those options and then you present what that option is so they what about my my idea well we looked at that idea and this is what we got for a cost and that's why we routed this way so everyone understands that we're all kind of going in the same way and that's the
end of the goal is to get everyone on the same page okay and doing those things yeah majority majority you're never going to make 51% what you need of course okay and and just to to make an announcement I did did have this on the email to the committee but the uh the
dates that are currently set for the uh the upcoming meetings as part of the the schedule here is uh uh Wednesday March 19th a uh options Workshop uh the new options development Workshop would be on Thursday April 2
4th uh an uh presentation uh with the committee and and public at large this is kind of I guess the large you know Public Presentation that would be on uh Wednesday May 14th and the final uh study public uh
presentation what was that I'm sorry all so uh Wednesday May four 14th and then Wednesday June 11 what's the one in April 16th uh 24th 24th and I will make sure that this uh
June June 11th June 11th so March 19th that's a Wednesday Thursday April 24th uh Wednesday May 14th and Wednesday June 11th and I will make sure that that gets
out uh you know publicly as well on on Facebook and be and and uh I think uh certainly get in the shorelines and we'll see how how else we can disseminate that but see if anyone from the public has
anything I I was going to say if if I wanted to ask is there any anything further to you all had at this time I'd like to say one thing Chris go ahead um to to take a a look at the adaptability of the offices that uh school has moved
out of and and the size that's existing in there on consolidating the municipal building because I I think if that wasn't too significant we could very easily accommodate the the parking problems with the front of that building and creating the parking lot in front of the building right one of the things
that I'm hearing from the people is they don't want to see those beautiful trees leave but if we took the trees out put some new Landscaping in you know we could make a parking lot that would work for a municipal you know Town billing you thin them out yeah well there's some
out front yeah the biges one question if if we were to use it for on a limited use basis right any wallpark number to get us in there um you know is just moving the municipal offices over
there if we just kind of picked up our existing desks and put them in there I I know there's not I air conditioning I don't want to give you a number tonight I because you'll you'll whatever number I throw out I've already given you a big number
that people Ed against but I try not you said yeah I try to have facts to back up that number forget the number but as far as some of the improvements that you see would have to be made at a minimum for us to do that we can we can work on that and get that number I would call it the bottom line provision that's the last
thing the bottom line to get in there one of my concerns with that would be is like an emergency situation like say we're going to do this heat and and we got the grant we got to use the grant money and we can't stay here while that's being done you know or like something like we got the problem with the annex and all of a sudden we can't use it for that use so there's one
danger there is that people get accustomed to say Well they're in there why do I have to do any more modifications if you want to keep with a master plan it has to be a schedule you have to keep doing that and and we want to eliminate this being all over the place Consolidated so it can be more efficient so we don't want we don't want to go away with that but if we we get
some idea hey in case this situation comes up because it quite possibly could J can say hey you can't we can't do this with you occupying them because we got encapsulated as best to on to the floor right okay so yeah I'm just thinking would be
the number say we have a square footage take off but the number of Staff the number of officers needed that's an easy type this is 20 can 20 fit in this space right it's a we'll get into that yeah because but I'm changing use so if I'm
changing use I got to do a code review to find out what impact that use we got we got existing offices you know what we had in there we have currently yeah we have the business office that's still in there um in the other school time that's
but wasn't there offices that we we set up in there for for when we got out of the um Middle School I heard something like that there's there's office space that we were using that I'm going to wear some existing you guys get all the stuff see what we got in there I've only been
through the building a couple that administrative space in the back does is still that is office space that's over there that's what that was designed for off the back sort of the back of the and some of that is vacated right correct correct but some of it's occupied there's people occupied every day they go there right right there are some
offices there that are not there anymore the superintendent's office Human Resources have have moved but just in the last year right they had been there up until the last year and why do the people still remain there the lack of space it's not so much the there were issues raised with uh insurance cost
with the building if if it was under certain occupancy there were other issues so the the out of school time programs there few offices remain obviously the basketball is used and the field are also used so that's the current School use okay how many if I could ask just a
couple more questions you great resource how many offices would you say were designed to exist not the ones that just moved out a year ago but designed to exist there now how many offices would you say or what's the space you would say is there right I say roughly yeah size
of this four maybe or two of these fls probably yeah I would say that's accurate yeah yeah EAS it's a couple of uh yeah we just contact and come look sure it's easier to yeah than to write now how many there were large there were
there were a couple of larger spaces that that are there that function as sort of a cubicle setup right so there are a few that are like that there are others that are dedicated office space superintendent's offices secretary's office human resources those are all sort of separate but there were a couple
that are larger that sort of operate with with desks that are there that's how they were designed yeah so I believe her name is Kim right theim she she was telling us she had a
run heating upstairs even though no one was upstairs because that's just the way the systems were were zoned that way so there there knowledge of that building too that was good abely I would I would recommend uh maybe contacting Michael
Dart with the former maintenance guy who for 30 years there as a contact to also reach out and talk to uh was that who she took over sort of yeah okay he knew he know a lot of things about a lot of
things in the buildings so Michael do art do art yeah oh yeah all right I wanted to ask a question just and um anything that's pending right now that you guys have received to improve any of the buildings that may be
transferable yes we just have that one grand roughly about $600,000 of incentives okay is there a time frame on that yes it's normally a cap right yeah I don't
know what the time frame is um I can get that for you okay like uh and yeah and then if it's not used in a certain time or if it's used and you then say abandon it do you have to pay
it back is there any type of restriction on it that's okay I haven't okay I will check on that not aware of that that's a good question kind of like a sunset Clause you got to use it a certain time frame or you lose it or and and on the with on
the subject of Grants I think it's it's it is going to be important when you look at the uh the individual building cost and the cost per square foot making sure that that includes money that's been received through and spent through grants and not through the general operating budget because that I mean
without that piece you don't really have a clear picture of how much has has actually been spent or may need to be spent yeah down down the road as well so um I you know I I think what I would like to say just to kind of uh cap
everything here tonight is the the uh staff of the town of Westport and the Departments have made a living out of doing more with less I mean we mentioned the the the recck department this this town didn't have a wreck department a few years ago and what
they've been able to do with very limited funding out of uh the general budget I mean pretty much every all the programming is self self- sustaining grants I mean you know there's I think a single salary is is what comes out of the general budget and that's just an
example and and you have uh lots of lots of dedicated workers that are they are stuck in small offices in the cor right and I think um so the there there's a a lot of just being used to doing more with less and I think we have a great
opportunity here to show there uh that there might be a path forward to an economical path forward to allow a little bit of breathing room shall we say yeah and uh and I think that's that's something to keep in mind for sure so I at this time everybody
deserves a good working space I yes AB a lot of time there every day right yeah and I got to say everyone has been so far excellent uh with knowledge participation friendliness we've got no resistance at all which is nice it's excellent excellent to hear not
surprising but excellent to hear we appreciate your help thank you so that's that's great to have right you don't want to have someone opposed to you looking into our closet like very true very true so at this time I just wanted to ask uh one more time if anyone from the public uh wishes to make any
comments now or ask any questions be happy to allow anybody to do so and seeing no one um I guess at this time I'll just say thank you thank you all once again and uh I'm sure we'll be in contact between now and and the next next meeting date for sure so um oh I'm
sorry I thought one um you mentioned the next four meetings are um options for development workshops um is there a mechanism or way you want the general public to submit like their ideas or would that happen within the time frame
of the meetings write them down and bring them with you to be the best thing or send them in yeah yeah if I don't know how I mean so I guess that's I mean Jim could we just have a I mean I know at one time there was a request you know an official
request for proposals put out um would it be worth putting out another if nothing maybe not an official you know feed or anything like that but just putting it out there that hey you know we're we're we're doing this bring your ideas to the next uh next options and
that was actually my my my previous question about um the option the next options Workshop you wanted to limit it Mr chair I don't use the word requests for proposals yeah talk about a public meeting a public at one point in time
there was an actual that goes down a rabbit hole of its own yeah yeah no that that's that was a pre the previous version of the committee did actually put out actual rfps there so um this would be more of just a yeah uh bring your ideas to the table for sure it
would be brought an invitation right an invitation to the public would that be something that I don't know how would you all be prepared to to uh to discuss some of these at the at the next meeting on the 19th of March or if they want to mail them in then we
just read them off and I think this is televised right absolutely is it easier for you to have questions in advance I mean I would think I would think we love them we do it either way you give us to us in advance we're more prepared we're prepared other than that we'll have uh more statistics uh we do different meetings
you do public meetings and you bring them in uh when we get to the next let's say when we get to the point where we know what we want to do when we're in an agreement then you got to sell it then you go to hockey games basball games getting ideas usually public meeting
where you offer some kind of food that us generates people to get their little I'm pretty hungry how about how about if we had the public meeting right at at the high school I I draw so instead of having Mee and we got we can have meetings there ideas you write them
down I think it oh oh if they're teleporting in something if uh so I will say if it's possible uh to perhaps have the next meeting actually at the auditorium of the old high school that I don't think that would be a bad idea but we can make sure the logistics would work on or even
the old gymnasium where the media room or whatever that was that we had to the last the actual media the oh for the library yes well one thing I would want to make sure is that uh it would be we'd have the the sufficient equipment to record and make sure it's even if it's
not live at least it's going to be a recorded the IT guy that was from the high school when we were there he said it was plug and go so I think it would be Media Center yeah well both the media center and and the auditorium I think would uh one an idea every time I go into Le Market actually on the way out
there's always two or three signs there Billboards talking about some meeting the library historical commission or something right take a yeah oh it's like a pin up right this is on the way out oh it's a digital
board and information going on there's two of them there today I notic everybody goes in there huge numers of people go in there so there's a way to reach out all kinds of the library does it I think the
senior sen does it the school system probably is another venue to invite notifications notifications to this the parents uh say we will try to get the we we will try to get the word out absolutely yeah and we can probably put something together together as to what
the purpose of that meeeting is in a very few words something graphically you know do a board yeah we need your ideas we need your thoughts inviting the public and then I'll sneak in the Lees and try and put it up and I'll get AR rest'll put it up yeah for absolutely
like what are you doing well you said you have one of the natives that work yeah all right excellent well that's true I'll B some cookies I just wanted to thank the three of you for coming tonight uh it also means a
lot doing this in person and actually coming here it it uh it does make a difference so thank you all for being here very much so we're excited we're really really excited because I think you have great opportunities and not many towns have what you have uh you have an abundance of great buildings an
abundance of opportunities and you have the will so and you've been working money Mone we don't have abundance of money they say where there's there's a away I'm not sure if we we'll see you build it they will come we'll see if that will hold true
here but coming up also for ideas with um to generate Revenue what would people do what would people pay that's a good way come and generate revenue for this whole thing to happen to make it a reality you know it's funny I at the
Providence a allall I saw this sign level 99 and I wonder what is this level 99 I could not believe how crowded that is you know what that is what is it yeah it's an outdoor facility that's inside
for all kinds of activities but it's packed and it's young and I call them best I don't call them all anymore but but it's an innocuous name right level 9 you would never I am surprised that people even from Massachusetts are
coming in to it's the latest and greatest but it's generating revenue for them all because right well that mom needs it but that's exactly what this long Plex is and that's the the 20s somethings in the office said oh you should do this it's a great place for
people to come and you can you can climb a rope you can move a tire longplex over intive yeah right okay bring it here people will come yeah it's I don't even know what that is so I'm like writing it down I have no clue but and it doesn't take a lot of money to build some of
these things that's what's incredible about low low overhead to get in and or upfit and then it could be gone if you needed the space back right so it's a it's kind of interesting model this says short long hanging fruit as they call it short
term all right excellent well thank you again thank you again very much and uh so very quickly I'm just going to move on we've got two uh out action items uh very quickly looking for I know everybody's set with no right uh the first is just yes I'll set I'll set with
you all thank you so much again um just very quick we have outstanding minutes from the November 25th meeting I will entertain a motion I will make a motion to approve the minutes of uh November 25 it's been moved in second and all those in favor
I opposed I didn't think so all right and uh the next item we can continue on WE we'll continue we'll table that item all right thank you to our uh thank you our ongoing we are almost adjourned but not
quite can I hear a motion I will make a motion to adjourn thank you second second it's second all those in favor we are adjourned thank you very much