##VIDEO ID:oM0oaXkUQyg## all right let's uh call this uh meeting to order the Westport School building committee November 21st 2021 24 24 2024 CO's over CO's over oh God thank God uh all right so discussion an update on the committee uh I'll just say a few things and then I'll turn it over to to Jim but uh you know for my last meeting uh more of the same more more meetings with the contractor and uh the the attorney um uh Zoom meetings uh Gail Associates uh they have been at the school to do some work with the down spouts that that did get done then we had uh the the hole in the gutters for the down spouts was uh was wrong it was too small and uh uh Greenwood I believe the roofing contractor that the gutter guy came back and uh they did that back in September or maybe early October so that's been done it's it's one of the issues uh it's not the answer to to to the bigger issue with the gutters but uh that's been done uh Jim and I spent uh most of the day today up in Boston in uh mediation he yes mediation hearing yeah meeting with uh weby Architects and Town Council so it's uh Jim and I and uh Richard Holland and uh it was uh Levy his attorneys and some other professionals uh his people um I I think Jim and I both kind of left there feeling the same way when as we did when we got there it wasn't doesn't really seem like they're really uh willing to do much of anything at least at this point um Jim you want to chime in on that or yeah so um lby architect said that the uh down spouts the holes at the top of the GS were too small so those were inlarge we haven't had any rain events significant events since then so we don't know how those perform gaale Associates still has some concerns with the design uh they believe the gutted should have been the volume of the Gage should have been bigger or more and the slope should have been a little bit more defined and um there were a couple of issues with the flashing so um that's kind of the disagreement between Gail and Lev that we're trying to work out did anybody do a water test on the thing you know after it was opened up a little bit more to actually flood it we haven't had any rain inth they didn't an actual water test I I I don't know Jee I don't do yeah they can do I well how valuable would be with the gut is right so I know they've done water tests in areas where they've had leaks yeah they did I know they've done water run water run off cuz yeah and some of the tests the water was running right off the roof wasn't even going into the gutter yeah they can run water simulate whatever want volume and it all roof problem but again that the water getting in you know overflowing the gutters is is one issue it's the the bigger problem is the the water and the moisture gain and behind the the gutters and and the when it overflows then it clings on and then it goes into that yeah that gap between the um the block and and we did uh we uh Gail or I believe it was Gail had reached out to Greenwood uh we did get a uh an estimated an estimated price to you know I printed it out and I left it at home uh basically to replace the uh the gutters around the perimeter of the building flashing you know and all that that the work associated with that didn't really include everything uh we got that the other day that was N9 n something yeah 900,000 uh Steve agustini saw that he said he told us that he thought that was high so we're reaching out to uh Stanley Roofing Stanley reaching out to yeah agustini was reaching out to to them a company they've worked with to try to get us uh a better price we've also told him to reach out to capway rofin yeah town and and I guess apparently uh Gail did uh reach out to them not that long ago and of course they're very busy like everyone else but we're going to we we're going to reach out to them again and uh so we're hoping to get a few more quotes that are you know better than that one that we got um I mean I would I would suggest that um now that they have the holes open um actually to either hope there's a real good rainstorm and photograph it video see yeah Jeff we actually haven't yet and I as a matter of fact I actually called uh Manny today uh and said uh hey how bad is it is it you know I know it's raining down there is it is it says Ah it's raining but it's not nothing bad or or have a water test one or the other you know before Town goes into spending 500 million dollars on something that isn't needed so and it is kind of routine to do as you're suggesting to do the testing after they do the repair so I don't think we're out of line doing that you don't want to wait for storm to find out it might not be the best time to do that I believe there was a calculation done to size those gutters I think it was done after the fact and I believe the calculation showed they were undersized yes so and I think we have minutes in the meetings from previous meetings if the attorney was looking at this stuff there is a case attention a long time ago for reality Jeff maybe you know the name of I agree with you that still I mean on the on the original specifications it says meet all um um uh meet all requirements of the national aluminum there's an industry standard for gutter off is it Mac or is it I forget the name of the the an industry standard Jeff for gutter run off and it's all all in the same place and Gail basically is saying you know that gutter needs to be pitched obviously and uh one of the things that Jonathan their team is saying I all that with we're excluded from that because of you know industry you know because it's it's a flat roof which it's it's nonsense doesn't make sense but the easiest way is to flood it as Jeff is saying and test it don't wait for the water to do that on their own you know I mean supposedly we're going to be getting more rain they said over the next uh month they think they think we're going to yeah but today today wasn't the day today wasn't no I thought it was going to be a real down so it might be helpful if you're willing to get more involved in this is kind of new to us my feet wet yeah okay you're willing I'm willing to if you guys give me a call and want me to uh maybe sit down with Brian from Gail Associates and review what his ideas that would be great that would be helpful Tom had a question let give me ring Tony David's point is well taken I mean I I think that should be the starting point is that they're undersized to begin with so regardless I mean it's an industry standard it's a math calculation it's engineering it's tough to argue against that when there's a standard and clearly that number I you know regardless of what the performance is moving forward but I think that should be our the the argument we got on that today Tom was again from the from the mediator not not from Levy although that's basically they was saying was basically like you know whether you have a three-inch gut or 4-in gut or 5in gut if it's holding the water it's doing its job it's doing its job you know does that you know does that mean that you can go ahead and you know if three for three in and I'm not saying it is but their argument basically is what you have there is fine it's working now that we opened up the down spouts you guys are fine why do you want to spend all this money to replace it to replace basically the same thing that you have there now but it but it's not the same the the new drawings the new the new specs are different uh with the flashing and and stuff like that you know if nothing else if nothing else because they're arguing that um if we do a water test then then we have proof right all we confirm that it's or we confirm it yeah that's all we're trying to do Jeff how much like what what would you get like would you need like a water truck to because you got to dump a lot of water at once right type of thing like you can't it's not something you can do with a go with a godded holes right no not quite you have need multiple but they usually have a rack and then they can um water it down but you know multiple heads and and stuff like that Gail can actually do one just to let you know so thing is how do you figure out how much water you're going to get in a rainstorm it's it comes back to the engineering well true and if the engineering says they're under size you know the test is going show what the engineering shows I could be wrong but I thought it was just on the opening in the spout that was the gutter size the gutter in some areas the water when they ran some of these water tests the water was running off the roof not even hitting the gutter so so that's a whole different issue yeah yeah yeah oh yeah that's a whole different issue in some areas different yeah yeah that's a that's a MISD design of of where it goes and how far it goes down and angle of the roof and everything that's that's a standard they miss that then they miss that that's bad is the gut design the only open item we have with Levy or is there something else that we're mediating with them there's nothing else that we're mediating with them okay you know are we still having some issues with stuff in the building yes um just the the topic of the mediation though is this Gutter The Gutter system and we believe the quote that we have is if we were to just do it and then sue them later um the quote that we have now is for around 900,000 so we're getting alternate quote probably a few more hundred on top of that shaa because it doesn't include some of this B just this price just included the gutters themselves didn't include uh supervision but there's another there's another thing here too and I and I don't remember the design it's been quite a while since I've looked at the drawings um anybody know how many like in this section over here how many down souts there are well that's the other thing so Gail is saying that they don't have enough downspouts not throughout the see that's the other thing is that add you can add more downspouts and then the water that's collecting gets out of there before it overflows everything so there's a there's a number of solutions and I would say to get a price for that CU that may be actually no that's part of the price is to add down spots because in some areas we have over 90 ft of run a down spot but what I'm saying is do that in lie of of of redoing the gutters because once you put more down spouts then the capacity through calculation whatever may meet it but this isn't just about gutters it's also about the envelope is it yeah it's it's the it's p again underneath the gutters in behind the walli gaps that we have which is really which is really the problem because you don't we have a performance bond with these guys for the rofus we should I mean that was that's not that's not the I don't think that it might be the roofer but don't think that's the roofer usually the the roofing when you install on a building you get a performance bond and or we the sooner we act on that the better off we're going to be we use that money to to do the repairs so the roofer and the gutters were the same guy they were Greenwood right is that true they're both Greenwood yes well who is dealing with the flashing and the uh and the closing off of that top part between the block and the and the gutter and that's Greenwood should be flashing not the gutter that you're attaching that to does Greenwood contract to Austin or live like who are they contracted to Agustin contracted Aus so so we're going through agustini we can't go to them right now unless we went out the full design we'd have to go through the whole procurement process there could be there's advant it's advantageous to us to keep going through a yes it basically be like a change basically it' be a change and then but they're still on the hook for whatever they're on the hook for if we were to do it independently then you're you have to incur a whole it's a whole different thing but um the open I I'm not saying we don't have any punch list items or whatever but if to close out the project what besides the guttering system that you guys were talking about what are the other items the commissioning the commissioning report would have to be signed off on and I'm not really sure what we what's on that commission report that's still what's stopping the msba from closing the project out I mean it's been over a year right since it was open yes so so usually that's all it is is a year but but it's not they haven't filed the paperwork the closing paperwork with the msba cuz things aren't right yet because things AR right yeah okay and then joh uh John Jim uh heard this morning that um Joe Sullivan's gone left left the company so that's another person that's gone so that's like what number six yep five or six yep from uh where are we with the budget for the the project so we've been working on that and it seems like it should be very simple we had this discussion the other night right but but there's a lot of variables in there and we're trying to pin them down right now I think we have 18050 I $850,000 remaining after agustin's U pay estimate for 138 and the retainage for 72,000 so if we pay those two we would have a balance of8 49,8 63 now there's a couple of variabl with that that we we're still researching with Bond Council so out of our loan we paid um the banks and the companies about $337,000 um but the pre that should have been included in the premium so we may have a little bit more than the 850 but I don't know that for sure and I'm still trying to reconcile with the OPM to make sure that they have the same numbers that we do and it looks like we do but I don't have confirmation yet so uh Jim what about the feasibility study so the feasibility study so the msba reimbursed us $342,000 of the feasibility study so that's included in this number um so that's already taken originally the town the money for the feasibility that that original 7 something 700 was voted that town meeting right it wasn't actually part of the uh contract so we have approximately $850,000 remaining of funds in that so if we were to pay a change order to agustini to fix the guttering let's just say we can R asly make it$ 850 total right would that sub would that complete the necessary items or are there still big items that are still open with any of the suppliers that's a big one I think there's a bunch of little odds and ends that are still you know they're they're still billing us for things that we don't really agree with this okay point of negotiation in there and if I may I think you know again 850,000 would be in that category of the big things but we still have the auditorium uh sound which is not going to be a cheap fix I don't know why but I'm thinking that would be somewhere around 70 if I had to guess um so there there's other stuff it's just you know in terms of making sure that the building last for the next 50 years obviously the envelope is so yeah no I hear you so but so we have 850,000 of our discretionary money that we could still spend right but this why we want these other people to behave for the mistakes that they made or the things that they did not complete right but there is a point at which you have to just stop the project right and I'm not sure that we know when that is or where that is like do we still have pending cases is it still the no right so so Sean I think if I think if we get and Jim and I were talking about this today I think if uh with the attorney I think if we get a couple of one or maybe a couple of good prices on you know doing these gutters from Stanley or capway or maybe even Greenwood coming back with a better number or something that I think it it might be the best thing to go just go ahead and do that and then at that point we can decide whether or not we want to go after them of you know but we want to consider litigation against the Livy and um that I mean we're in mitigation right because we're that's one one of mediation because we're we're at least threatening that hey this is an option right but or do we have other pending legal action is it just this gutter no that's just yeah no there's nothing else we're not no we're not going after anyone else as far as no say we're just trying to get them to fix this is the big one big repair the repairs a lot of this other stuff we're just going to have to swallow I mean you know have to take care of it on our own after the fact and so we're not going to go after him for other things basically I mean it doesn't stop us from going after them for other things it's I thought we had a huge list and and then uh we do and then and then where's the list yeah we were going to go after them for that I mean big things I mean the auditorium s the gym floor is this gym floor is still peeling we we had them back once to paint it it's still peeling is there something with that floor was it installed problem that's like a warranty thing is I say how long is the warranty period one year but well I don't know on the floor this is way it gets this is what I mean and that's why you know to anyone building a new building out there don't open your damn building until every single thing is done because then you end up with this this panry of different warranty times and it takes a a an accountant to figure out what is warranty versus what is so so that floor two years ago we knew was a problem and we talked to the OPM about it and the painter came in and we said that's not right and what we were told at the time by the OPM was well let them seal it and then they'll have to look at it again which we thought was ridiculous but that's what we were told they sealed it and sure enough it wasn't done to the standard that it was supposed to also there's a I mean I'm not sure where these rank on the list in terms of uh cost but I know there's a ladder issue with the auditorium there's filtration system the water system the water the lad the water room yeah they fixed it it's more dangerous the wall panels right the panels yep we also have a crack the speaker in the one of the 1500 was it 1500 area yeah but there's a crack in the flooring and it has been from the beginning in a special education room according to Mrs wet so uh our project manager should be managing this list so where are they a wall so are we threatening litigation against them I mean don't so so that was also brought up today and Jim maybe you can explain it a little bit better but basically it would be to to blame the OPM I'm not blaming op I'm saying the OPM is responsible no I'm saying I'm saying to go after them and to say Hey listen guys because you didn't do your job the flaws didn't get done right the the gutters didn't get done right you know what I mean listen to what I'm saying I'm not saying that they should be cour I'm saying they should have the list of things that need to be done the the project manager's job is the tasks that need to be completed right so regardless I mean they have that I'm not saying who's at fault they have that it's it's yeah you're right you're absolutely right um it's part of their contract they're responsible for this stuff but we just haven't had a lot of cooperation from them over the LA I mean they will do enough we call them they will answer the phone but we ask them to provide information and it's it's not there um and then one of the things that we decided early on the full committee we discussed it was that you know you don't go after everybody or we may not be be we may not be able to go after everybody right because we may need the OPM to provide us information to um discuss I'm not suggested going after them I'm just saying it's part of their job duties and so I agree 100% and are they saying that they've extended so much that we need to have a contract with them to manage this like they they work for us for free for for years literally right they I mean they're not making they're losing money on this job right and so somebody needs to project manage this to completion and it's nobody here's full-time job to project manage that to comple so I'm we're not going to finish the project none of nobody's going to be happy when we're done particularly Tom okay but we have to finish at some point right and or we have to ask for more money I don't know but somebody needs to project manage that so if the project maybe I don't I'm not trying to sue the project management company I want them to engage and help us finish but it seems like they're we're trying that and unsuccessful I thought we talked about that a year ago and we put a timetable on it that if they weren't going to be more Cooperative then we would to take a stronger legal action uh and I think that should be in the minutes probably over a year ago Jim did we talk did you did you call uh Dan I did to I didn't get a response back well they've had a lot of turnover over there right problem Tony's absolutely correct because we did talk about it and I remember we were talking about whether we wanted to go after the OPM or not and at the time we had Kevin Sullivan who was working for cha it was one of the first times we were actually seeing some movement in in terms of rectifying some of these problems so we sort of backed off but then Kevin left and now we're back where we were even worse in the sense that they don't want to do anything because they feel that they're not getting any money but my position is that uh they're the cause of a lot of this right now and I don't think they should get a a free pass one way or another whatever that means yeah I I don't I mean personally I don't think the OPM is the is the issue it's it's the contractor and his Subs who gave gave stuff built stuff that isn't to spec isn't to design isn't to you know isn't working so those are the ones that you go after because they're the ones that have you know that that that we pay to build it the OPM is there just to help you out us out and and to run it so no I know and I think your point is we need help but but uh um I mean to re re-engage them fine yeah we just end up paying them money to to help us along on this and maybe that's what we need um otherwise we all have to do it somehow or somebody in the town has to do it to to to pursue we don't have the expertise to do it right we don't have the time or the resources the that's why you hire an OPM that's why you hir but we had this discussion over a year ago and it was pretty clear the direction we were going to take yeah and it was we we had a timetable and as long as we saw some cooperation at that point with the OPN working on the contractors we were we're okay okay as soon as that stopped we were taking legal action I thought we took a vote on it and that was over a year ago was so at this point I I don't know what what do you suggest Jim at this point you know yeah just sounds like you're suggesting legal action is that the way you want to go is well from my perspective I'm come in you know every six months I come in and hear a little bit of what's going on I'm just suggesting you guys are on the ground I want to support you folks but from my perspective for where I'm seeing it you know we're kind of rehashing the same stuff you know as Tom said earlier you cut the ribbon you know you buy it and it's too late at that point to get the attention of anybody they're on to the next job the horses left the bond we all argued about that but the decision was made to do that so we're in the building and we lost some leverage but let's not the longer we wait the more leverage we're losing so I mean I think that's where we are now the mediation today uh had to be has to be done it's in the contract so you have to go to mediation before you can sue so this was step one in that direction and again I mean we've had conversations with agustini with Steve and you know when we talk to them they always Steve always seems willing to help and do what he can so you know kind good guy bad guy that's why you need a contract and follow the rules of the contract Le ly forget we have't he's just I think one of the things that I think the two of you and um are are saying um we have mediation and correct me if I'm wrong it's only on the gutters so far right that's what that meeting was all about yeah yeah the G stuff was in the I would not throw out all these other things that have to be done too I mean when you're in mediation you're not just talking about the biggest issue you're talking about every one of the issues and that's a lump sum at the end you know we remember we talked about this coming up with a lump sum for every one of these of how much money it's going to take and that what we're going to go after you guys for or you're going to fix it so so I don't think we should abandon that necessarily I mean the floor and in the gym I mean I don't know how to fix that I mean do you have to tear up the whole floor and start over again because the the uh moisture is coming up through and that's what's causing everything to peel you know it could be that I don't really even know so so you know again I don't think we should give up on that list that we had and we should probably resurrect that list and then and then Pres present that you know at the next arbitration meeting that we're we're talking about all of this guys not just the one thing we did we we brought up other issues today during that yeah yeah that's not but I get the point that the project has to be paid for at some point too there's some pressure on the town them you know get this done as well so I got you Jeff because I got to tell you the I think a lot of this problem stems from the OPM the the the revolving door of opms that was an absolute nightmare I mean to a point point where our people literally had 15 minutes with the FF people 15 minutes and that's why when the cabinets came in the casters were wrong and they didn't fit underneath the built-in counters this is just a a small part of what happens when you OPM right isn't on top of it and I don't know I just I don't like the fact that they they they've sort of pontious pilot this thing and um and I think they're a big part of it personally well I think the mistake that we are making right now is we don't have professional full-time people engaged to help us resolve this right and I'm not saying necessarily I haven't thought this through completely but we cannot be going to a million dooll plus mediation with a volunteer and a guy who's working on it when he has free time as great a job as you two are doing you're not the right people that are going to get this that because the whole value of the whole punch list somebody needs to put that together the the you know what of other the the advising counsel that you would get like I don't you know that you would get from someone who does this all the time so I don't know like I mean it sounds like I I I think we're right to be unhappy with the OPM that we had before and I don't know if they it's to kind of like light a fire under them to get them to re-engage and help us finish this out or if we need to hire somebody else to help us but I think I think part of the money that we have available needs to be a resource to help bring this to an end because you're right we've been in the same meeting for two years now and you know you're you're we're trying to get the building solved so I don't know what that looks like exactly about what type of resource we need to help us finish we have a lot of State officials that are supposed to be a resource to a local town when you build a school the school building assistance program it's based on that I haven't heard anybody talk about them and what what their participation is are they participating are they helping us they have the expertise they have full-time people that's their job well is MB is MSB MBA MBA they're aware of the issues that we have but are they providing us guidance and Council here they they I mean I I think they very limited they've had conversations with people but do they still have these people on their preferred list when they're building new schools well I mean that's the first thing you do right away oh yeah they're still working yeah working on six schools right now they're very much they're very much aware uh of our issues and the issues we had with the with the architect they very at one point Didn't we have a some tell they say it's your contract didn't we have a lawyer at one point come in and got so I just I just want to say one thing with the mediation right we went in there with professionals today we've hired Gale Associates they've analyzed the roof they've been out here a number of times inspecting they've come up with preliminary design that they've worked with agustini agustini came back to them and said you know maybe we change it a little bit we do this they've gone out and gotten bids they're going to get some more bids to see what that comes out but we went in with Gail Associates representing the town okay today but okay wasn't me thank you yeah yeah it isn't Jim and I saying hey this is what you guys I didn't mean to suggest I'm not saying you guys aren't doing a bang up job I'm saying that you might need but this is a good point this is a good point because they are engineers they will bring you through what to do with it and what works it doesn't work what they can't do and they don't do is they don't guide you a client along in a mediation process they don't guide you along for all the other you know 89 things you know be beyond that the gutter they don't do that I mean they're there to give you engineering professional advice of what you have and what you need and what may work or not work and review those things so it's great we have them don't get me wrong that's the right thing to do if we were to hire another OPM which is what I would suggest uh is that something we would have to go out for bid for that or we we have to do all that I think so now proposals request for qualifications who did didn't we have a lawyer in here once and he did he was with us today there was okay so we had we were we were represented and and is he is he a lawyer that is is extremely knowledgeable yeah School building projects on mediations and yeah so I think when's the last time we had a meeting with him not just on the one thing but on all these things and and and to say this is enough we're we're done we are done we want to stop in this thing and and either we get money for it or or you know whatever so one of the things we need is we need a list of outstanding items we've had no we don't we do not on numerous occasions I've had a couple of lists were sent to me this past week many of the items on that list I know have been completed the list is two years old we need an updated list with the ma with the major concerns and it's difficult right I mean everybody's busy but that's what we need if we get that and say these are the priorities these are the five things that we need to get addressed these are the things that maybe we can live with these are the things you know that we're going to have to deal with maintenance issues but until we get that how fast can we do that list who would who Who would know who would who would be the best this is technically the OPM that does it right he follows up with the school the school tells them the problem they keep a running list they do have a running list but the opm's list is outdated by probably a year and a half right so the school is going to have to you know um I with K and we certainly have she knows what's been done and what hasn't been done I mean that's where I found out for example the floor on the special education uh classroom isn't done the way it's supposed to be done so I can most certainly sit with Kim and uh see if we can update that at this point and I yeah I mean I mean those major five six or seven things whatever they out you know Tom the the floor basketball C water system the ladder y the gutters uh I mean those things that list that's not that long well in seven days we ought to have a list right it shouldn't be a problem so let's say seven days from now Thanksgiving whatever right after that we' we've got a list we're ready to go what would be our next step well if we want to hire a uh a uh an OP I don't need to hire anybody what's the next step like if you figure out what you need to do then you figure out if you need help doing it I I would suggest our next step would be we get on the phone you have you got to have a relationship with the school building authority group get on the we got a list Tom uh and see if they can give you some guidance legally with their own people up there that lawyer they they I've actually spoken to people in the msba Y the they're very reticent about getting into the middle of a legal Quagmire as they see it and well no they're giving advice to a local school district which is a responsibility and they're in charge of the school building assistance program that's why it exists yeah I I really do believe we paid an OPM a good amount of money to do their job they didn't do their job y uh we have plenty of evidence to suggest that the revolving door of project managers resulted in an inconsistency in terms of followup which has led us to where we are today and and say all this true okay this is where we are right now yeah so however we got here right what do we need to do right now to to go for it so that's the that's the issue right so my my you know I I don't I I think we were trying to be nice to the OPM because again at the time we were so grateful to have even somebody who was seeming to move the needle that we didn't but I think if Kevin Sullivan had never been there I think this group would have said we need to go after the OPM too in particular Sean Sweeney from cha because he's the owner and uh it was their company that had this revolving door that I mean look at matus I mean he just he just sold this company in the middle of it so so let's take it back because I think this is where you're coming from do we have the people inh housee and it's all on you and and your people do we have the people in house to be able to go through a list and to verify whether it's been done or not and you can say no say no in a half day we we've lived this is a lived experience yeah we yeah we they know what's been fixed and what hasn't if you know anything about Kim she's unbelievably organized with her list because the point what the point is is that if we don't then we go out and we get another o OPM we get somebody to help us get through this like we did before you know get a civan or whoever it may be to help us so so as long as we can get that list going then that's the first step and we should we should have that and and I think we need to go toied I think we need to go to the the current OPM that still on the hook and tell them what we want them to do like we need to give them Specific Instructions we want you to collate this list we want you to close up well I I don't know what the things are about these three things as long as we can get the information from them I think that's the only thing I would want from these guys because what they're going to say is this they're going to say Hey listen West Paul we've done so much work for you you guys haven't paid us a dime in three years you know like you said we're losing money here what do you want us to do all right we'll come back give us $100,000 and I to be honest I don't want to give because then we would at least negotiate that we would I I would I rather give that money to someone else I'm not saying I would pay it I'm saying maybe they could have done their job the first time like Tom said now maybe I wasn't maybe I wasn't 100% clear when I said do we have the people so there's there's a number of steps we have to take first we have to get the list we have to verify that it absolutely has not been done and it needs to be done then we have to take that list and we have to turn it into money yes and that's where an OPM will help because I don't think anybody here will do that because that takes a lot of time and then once you get that then you can start talking to the lawyer and talk about going into um a suit or mediation who who is it or or talk to the lawyer about the the roof performance bond uh warranty on the on the floors this what OPM should be able to help us with I do think the state could help us and just procedurally some of those kinds of things that you're talking about we've got to set deadlines and start working on those the longer we wait we're losing it so I think losing the opportunity to do it I think you're right Sean I think we need to get an OPM I do if if I could just to help us through this you know we also don't even know where we are in commissioning right I mean we really don't have a grasp of where we're at at this point I mean that's out there somewhere what needs to be signed off M people would know that well well that you know again that was another part of this project where anybody who served on this committee saw the hostility between the augustini people to a point where I was actually a little uncomfortable at some of the dialogue that was going on in the middle of a professional meeting between them to a point where I don't know if our commissioning person went I don't need this crap and didn't do what you know I don't know but I think we need to get that information as well I mean some of that comes can come from uh the OPM can organize all this but then our Engineers can step in and tell you where the state is on that too you know I think we should hire an OPM but I think it should be someone else no I don't yeah un even even to hire somebody you need to outline what you want them to do you need to have the steps of what we we we I don't know what the steps are I don't like I I completely agree I mean we need the list and we need the value in we need the value of the list and then we need someone to help us sort through who's responsible for what what are our mechanisms for paying this or you know for getting these completed who's paying for what and whatever else we need to do to close out the project they should know see but you're going to have to list it in order to go out for bid right so and you're also going to have to listen to say I mean I if I were the OPM and agustini and Levy I'd be watching this recording right now because this is open meeting but like we need we need to know in order to go up for an RP you have to say what you want them to do we can't just say we want you I I think because it is an open meeting we need to have a list in seven days we need to have an idea of what our options are and that is potential ligation which would be in in session that the I think the committee has to decide what the Root's going to be you don't do that publicly because certainly they're going to tap into that and they're entitled to it but we we need to protect the the resources of the town on this and if we have warranties if we have performance bonds we need to tap into those if necessary but that's behind closed doors before we talk about that strategy so so publicly yeah you said something that brings up a another good point um going out to bid the the idea here with an OPM is to not really go out to bid it's to go out to find out how much this thing is going to cost no no I'm talking about an RFP I I know but but um so if the O OPM um comes in and helps us put this all together and gets um you know Architects or Engineers or however they do it to to um assign a cost to each one of these things that need to be repaired that's what we need then the decision is do we litigate or do we go out to bid to get it done I don't think this is a meeting to talk about that yeah but those are the two paths so we have enough information I think we need the list to see how big a hill we've got to climb we need the list first and once we've got the list we can decide all right right the that's fine the gymnasium floor is one issue the speakers in the auditorium and the roof the other things are we need to live with or yeah whatever whatever we come up with you're right right whatever we can do we need that list just remember that whatever OPM if if we hire someone comes in and does all that y they're not going to be able they're not going to make the contract or the the architect do anything no basically they're basically going to say no yeah no they put a dollar to it they're going say well you guys got you know million dollars worth stuff that needs to be done Y how do you guys want to do that you know and then and then hopefully that help us coordinate the mechanisms that we have to address each of the issues right they got to take us through the point until we make that decision and which way to go and if we choose to go in the build it ourselves for some of them maybe not all of them but some of them then then they can help us with that to send out an RFP to figure all that out and to get bids and review them and whatever we need to do and they can guide us the lawyer will take us once we get if we go that way the lawyer should be taking us on that end yeah so maybe we should set up a meeting in the next week or two executive session bring the OPM in and the the attorney and see well we need the list and we need to I think I think the other thing the other thing with the OPM we got to keep in mind is we got to close this project out right we got to close it out with the msba right our current OPM has and that's also what the OPM does the OPM has the current OPM has all that information to bring somebody in off the street is going to be no a challenge I yeah I'm not suggesting that we like I'm just suggesting we need some project management help in this area not necessarily opium of the whole I don't know what that looks like exactly but I'm a little more generous than Mr Vieira over here because December and November are crazy the end we're at the end of November is a holiday you got December holidays people are going to be taking vacations my recommendation would be get whatever list we have from two years ago into the hands of Tom and his his team they can go through the list I don't think we should try to regroup until January but I think that when we do regroup in January that we need to know what we're looking at we can't just be keep throwing examples out of the air we have to be looking at that and if we have new bids for the we know the high high ticket item and if we have the alternate bids for that that's good and then maybe we would have we could put together a list maybe we should be thinking about the list that we would put together for and RFP for help for help project managing this yeah the only the only David wants to root for engineers I'm rooting for project the only difference that I would have what you just said Sharon shaa is that uh there's probably a warranty on the floor and there's a timetable in terms of of use we're going through another season with it at some point we're going to lose the opportunity to get money back for the warranty the roof should have a performance bond on it usually that 25 30-y year performance bond each year each month you lose down the percentage of what you're going to get on it just those two things alone the biggest deal is a roof if we get a performance bond that's covering the repairs on a roof we go out the bid and we get the thing done and then let you know we'll send the bill to whoever that didn't perform and they can argue about that in the courts so I I don't your team Tom been keep keeping track of the warranties what well that's again this is part of of of the craziness Shan because again now I haven't prepped Tony up Tony you have a rough idea of what we would need on the technology end if that include the auditorium and stuff like that with the sound you got the number from uh so Auditorium sound would be about 70 to 75,000 now I didn't I didn't prep him on that what I'm saying is I'm I'm using that as a point that we've all we've got all this stuff we've been we've been living this for a long time I literally have a quote for that put the list but if we think we have a quote or a bid let's put that on the list if we think think it's the warranty is going to last until whatever date let's put that let's you need to gather the information on the list but I think you're I think you're right the list needs to include more than if we have bids or costs or estimates and what the warranty says for each each of these items something if we know the warrant is going to expire in September because it's two years or whatever then and and what the problem is as well because even after we've had sound issues in the auditorium from day one yes right and and I know the architect came in and did some sound testing and disagreed and said no it meets the requirements so if it meets the requirements and we want something better that may be on our time what he say no I know that's a joke but that's not quite true okay when when he came in it was both the architect and the designer of the auditorium with the sound system itself and they were supposed to tune those speakers perfectly to go back to the baffles those baffles are supposed to have insulation in them they do not they were removed for whatever cost savings or for whatever other reason that would have been the perfect solution so we already at a deficit because of that they did say it met the requirements so at least that's what they told me and if we want a better let's get it better you know I'm all for that but these are things that we got to look at going forward and that's that's what we need some help on because you've got that knowledge of of how that took you know you get the other side of who's saying what but there are some things you know like the floor the gym floor should be a pretty simple one the roof should be a pretty simple one and again that's a big cost FL should be a simple one but it's not and it's not because apparently good they used a different width of board because at the time this was being done was a height of the pandemic and we were having challenges with supply chain so they used from what I understand they went from a regular standard 2 in now to what degree that should be different from a normal or the standard I that's where I don't have that but there's still a warranty on a gym floor and there's a time frame that we have to step forward to say this doesn't meet the standard and we can use warranty funds to cover that performance bond on the roof is a a gigantic one I would say and I mean you just put a roof on the elementary school you got a performance bond on I would assume yes we so if you get water in the next six months it's going to be different than water in the next we had a small item and they immediately came and took care of it that's what I'm talking about the problem with a performance bond is that's typically from the roofing manufacturer they're going to say that there's nothing wrong with the material it's an installation thing yeah well then then we go on record legally with with you know somebody arguing with the architect and the design or whatever but we have to do that if we go back four or five years we have minutes that talk about the problem with a flat roof in the in the area in the Northeast and doing it when he was suggesting this is a design and we talked about the sprouts and the idea of getting water collecting on the roof and how fast it goes off so you know we got it you know we got to have so overpriced they for free redesigned the roof they clearly didn't give it enough attention you know we can't go backwards from this point we know this problems you got to cut our losses too I understand what you guys are saying but let's not assume they're all our losses I don't think they are say you're saying the performance bond is going to cover it I I think I think you're just going to have the wer pointing at the installer the wer Manufacturing Company who owns that Bond they're going to be po pointing at the installer they should have been doing that two years ago when we first had a leak on on the the track we should have had them engaged and we tried to but the you know other people were taken care of it supposedly I don't know but you need action in this kind of stuff we had a number of people come and look at things and try and fix them you know they did come and do the floor it's just same issues happening again that's why you have warres that's why you have performance bonds well that's what was stunning was when we pointed it out before they put the sealer on there and instead of fixing it before they put the sealer on they said this is our OPM you've got to let him seal it and then identify that it's not to standard it's beyond stupid but well when the OPN tells us we haven't paid them that's one of the reasons we haven't paid them right well and that's some false we paid the OPM everything that was in their contract and their contract states that they're supposed to work this thing through the end so as far as I'm concerned they're still on the hook they just got paid before all the work was done I'm completely with Jim I think we even extended their contract and gave in in I don't know it was $40,000 or $25,000 so they could help us get through the punch list so we even did that and we're still not there so um when I talked to the OPM and they said well we haven't been paid in two years I said we haven't finished the job yet right but that's doesn't mean we're getting the job finished and I and you know my I guess my point here is we got to move forward you know we can yep talk about things from the past but we got to find a way to get Solutions and forward seven days let's have a list that we can work with and then let's put it in action okay do we have other items because I want to not miss those anything you want to add to your report General Building conditions items uh you know um today um today we had had to do an evacuation of the building we had a we had a gas smell um after a lot of troubleshooting we found out that the problem really was a technology problem um and it was in the programming of uh the uh systems and what happened was apparently the and we were completely unaware of this that the program was set to uh on the fourth week of of November to shut the building down because we have Thanksgiving um I don't particularly think that's a good idea because of course we have a five-week uh November right now and so uh after a lot of troubleshooting Tony worked with uh the company and zenergy and um they've removed that um the building just stays on on period I I I don't know why they would have done that to begin with because so a program and that that never got changed that never they set it up three years ago apparently and so uh the the problem of course is that this building is used so much that there's no reason to shut it down at this point so just keep it going and is that about right Tony from what you you received right so so unfortunately the BMS only controls the systems but electricity is still on surf rooms still need AC but when you know BMS does AC when they turn off the AC server rooms overheat shuts off other systems thermal overload and that's what caused all of these different various problems so it's solve now right you think it is until we discover the next until next Thanksgiving but oh somebody probably thought they were being clever made another setting so we have to go through that and find that's the problem with these systems they they're too clever that's the problem so that's true I feel confident but at the same time I don't want to dis some of the mystery so at least it was addressed and and we'll see you know time will tell okay the other thing uh Tony is that we do have a markup of the uh cabinets for our uh awards that are sitting in the U uh the old school and let's approve these Jim these these are all here these invoices just yes Gail Associates KP law and fire equipment that fire equip was that the balance for the that panel movement I looked at it it said uh Tom the fire the fire when what was that device test labor yeah if you remember we had uh we had water penetration on one of the panel this this is part of that okay right right so is there a motion for those so move second any discussion on those invoices all in favor they match the five all right Tom want to go ahead and tell us about the uh yeah uh so so obviously cases yeah um a lot of interest uh in the community Community uh to have the awards that are sitting in the old school and rightfully so um and unfortunately we didn't have enough Cabinetry uh made a call to Diamond spoke with Manny Patell department head of the uh carpet Tre and cabinet program he graciously uh is uh taking on uh doing some new Cabinetry it's going to be a combination of making five new ones and then four of them that we currently have he's going to retrofit them so that they all match uh We've also contacted um glass company because they can't do that so the total cost between the new ones and the uh redoing of the old ones is uh they've got a cost of1 185 there I would suggest to the uh committee that we boost that up to about 22 in the event that a piece of glass is broken or something like that because obviously diamond isn't going to 2 100 or thousand thousand 22,000 I apologize 22 thou it's 185 but what I'm saying is up to in the event that they come up with something that happens in it you don't have to come back I make a motion that we support that um to the Limit that Tom had talked about is there a second yeah great great job just for discussion yeah discussion um so just clarify so that everybody knows and and I know because I actually do have this question um why are we uh why are we not designing these to match what's there so we don't have that extra cost because that's a actually nicer um looking and for the cost that was if we had to actually purchase that the way we did with ff& the cost would have been way through the move and this is we're not paying labor we're just paying mat we're not and the other thing is it's going to take up a huge part of that wall and we want it to look uniform and yeah and so for the relative um you know and I 2500 2,000 2,000 that's all to these are big trophy cases oh yeah I mean if you again I have markup for anyone that wants to take a look at Jeff would you be kind enough to just show that first can you zoom in on that there you go everybody and that's a big Community flavor to it excellent that's Hightech stuff yeah yeah and again I'm extremely grateful to them for I think that's a great idea Tom it's a community project it brings everybody back the families and so forth go for we need these Awards in the in the school and well yeah it's part of the community it's what Tak Pride within the school back generations and some of them probably I've got Michelle is dying to show everybody the trophies that she got when she was here you went back that far yeah what I wa I well you know Tony we may we have so many of them that we may have to like make a cut off of 19 whatever you know I know I know all right any uh further discussion on that yes hate to be the Debbie Downer but uh we may not have enough money to do the gut is I don't know if we should be spending $8 $22,000 on something else at this point I think it's outstanding I think we should look maybe for another funding source maybe we could request Opa funds um but uh that's my thought all in favor hi and and I didn't necessarily say the source of funding I mean if there's other options as Jim saying we'll try to go for it we might even get community funding to help support it if necessary yeah I I don't really I just want I want the I want the trophies out here I'm getting a lot of people calling and rightfully so they want to see the trophies they want to be forgotten yeah it's it's just bringing the community together a little bit they get in the building and they can associate it with it all right let's move uh move on item C for Nays one nay I'm sorry I feel bad but it's a great project motion pass we're good uh request authorized School building committee chair superintendent Town Administrator to approve monthly invoices for Gail Associates in KP law Jim move second how how much money are we talking about there Associates right now we probably 5 to $10,000 more total without coming before another Proposal with you and then uh KP law we're with them today for must put eight hours in 16 hours it could be 20 hours um I'd say why don't we say up to U $15,000 is that I like that I'll amend my motion second any any further discussion all in favor okay and then uh review and approved minutes from the school building committee meeting of August 15th so we second all in favor I I and with that I have to abstain I wasn't there I don't believe uh we'll adjourn thank you everyone thank you everyone