Uh, rise if you're able. The pledge of allegiance [clears throat] to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for
all. Amen. >> Okay. Um, we get going here as we usually do. We start off with an update from Captain Chase, Director of Marine Services. Captain Chase. Mr. Chair. All right, let's start off with numbers.
[clears throat] Current balance in the shellfish propagation gift fund is $211,92.72. That number includes uh all of the payments that were due to Bruce Ingram
and it includes two uh private donations. One from the uh Westport Point Neighborhood Association of $500 >> and another one from an individual uh Ann Rogers um of $1,000. So, I just want
to publicly thank both of those uh folks, all those folks involved for those uh donations. So that's where we stand right now. 2119272. [clears throat] The um I've been in touch with the Madden Foundation just to kind of introduce myself and say, "Hey,
we're here. What's going on? I want to make sure we don't miss any deadlines, uh requirements, so on and so forth." Uh they've been very engaging. Uh they did confirm to me just yesterday something that I already knew. I think we all
already knew. Um, the last $100,000 dispersement from this 5-year grant will be uh delivered to us on the 1st of April, and that is the last uh dispersement from this grant.
As far [clears throat] as rewriting this grant, they they say it's they they describe it as a rolling grant. There is no specific timetable for this. Um I have until February the 15th to submit the report to them for all of the
activities uh from this previous year. Uh that I will have before the end of the year. So before 1231 they will have uh the complete report of what this relay uh has accomplished and all the propagation activities have accomplished
so far this year. You all have a copy of this. Um, this is something I submitted to Rick and to Terry O'Neal and to Matt Kamissa. These are the actual numbers from 2025's
relay. Um, I gave all these numbers out earlier. The total amount was 3,665.5 bushels. Uh, this report breaks down where all of them were um, planted. and the individual tolls for the
individual relays. And by the way, I gave a copy of this to Bruce as well in case he had any issues with what these numbers are. But uh in case you don't know, every time we take a load of cohawks of Bruce, we get a
receipt from him signed by him, signed by me or whoever's driving, and it's supposed to be verified by a shelfish constable from Swansea. It doesn't always happen. Uh, so when I gave this to Bruce, I said, "Just match these numbers up with the receipts that you
have." And he said, "Well, some of my receipts are still drying out in the basement cuz they went down with the ship." Um, anyway, I I brought that up to Matt Kamiss and he goes, "I'm going to go with your numbers." So, all the receipts that we have collected are here and I have ordered audited these uh
myself. So, I believe these are all correct and true. So that's the result of 2025's relay activities. You'll see it's 54 different days. Um the average delivery was 67.8 bushels
which is 10% less than the previous year which was 75.5. And you guys should all also see that within this package there is a chart there that I tried to determine some kind of a trend. This chart that you're
looking at right here, these are the daytoday numbers. And I was again I was just looking for a trend to kind of see what might be happening here. On [clears throat] top of that, uh the next page is the cost per bushel.
This is the one that gets my attention the most and I suspect it may get yours as well. The cost that we pay per bushel of contaminated cohogs back in 2017 was $17 a bushel. Right now it's 28.50
and you'll see a percent increase uh to the right. I was just trying to track, you know, how quickly this number accelerates just to try to project what 26 and beyond uh would cost. So, you can see that it doesn't take much to figure
out it's going to be $30 a bushel before long. >> Is that percent increase year-over-year? >> That's year over year. >> Wow, that's a lot. >> So, yeah, there So, there was a big jump 1920. I don't know what that was uh or why it was. the next year was zero, but
I think the average increases about 4.4% if memory serves. So, it's something to bear in mind because it's it's getting expensive. >> Yeah. Not to interrupt you, but I I don't I don't even see a pattern
here with this percentage increase. This is like these [clears throat] are numbers. I question where they come from. I mean, I know where they come, don't get me wrong. What I'm trying to say is that >> in 18 we have 5.9. Then we go back down to a 2.8 increase. This is not how the
economy runs. Then we go to 24. Then we go to zero which is COVID. Okay. So we can give them that. >> Mhm. >> Then 6.5. Then back down to two. Then up to four. That's 100% increase. And then up to 9.6. That's >> that's over 100. >> Over 100%.
>> Which is why I thought best to put these numbers in front of you guys so you get a sense of what these are. So I guess my >> these numbers came off the actual contract with Bruce going back to 17. I don't have anything before that. Perhaps Chris does somewhere, but that's what was in the computer and that's what was
in the hard copies that I have. >> I'm not being critical, >> but what you say what I see out of this is there has to be some negotiation here because these numbers are coming out. I'd like to know and I don't there's nobody here that's going to be able to answer my question
is why are these numbers all over the map if you were running a business skip you're a businessman I mean lobster went up 24 point >> I mean just going off cost of living like you know everything in society it's a standard amount
>> yeah and there's no rhyme >> I don't understand why we went from 2.8% 8% 24.3. >> Well, we asked if you look at uh >> 2025 was up 9.6%. >> I think the next year was zero. >> Gasoline or diesel fuel probably double
that year or something. >> Was the 24% co >> I I honestly >> next year 21 zero would be the co. >> Yeah. So, how did we go from 3% to 24 and then we went from 4% to almost 10?
One thing I know, >> it's kind of irrelevant at this point, but moving forward, it's nice to have that. >> You got to have some kind of context. You got to know what you're looking at. >> It's a negotiating point for us. >> So, last year, just in 2025, we were up 9.6%. And I remember sitting right where Ron is sitting right now, voting on
this, saying, [snorts] "Is this negotiable?" Apparently, it was not. >> I remember. >> So, um I think Chief's point is a very good one. >> Well, he's got no competition. >> Yeah. We've got one we've got one supplier. >> Yeah. and he just had to put a lot of money into his boat. So,
>> it could be a big thing next year. >> There's not really any option really. >> But one negotiating point we do have >> is we're his biggest customer and that's a pretty strong negotiating point. >> Mhm. >> Well, I think if anyway these numbers
are are good. You don't want to go in a gunfight without bullets and a gun and and you know these are >> we know good numbers. Do we know if he's charising that same amount to the other towns? [snorts] >> My understanding is yes, Ron. I But
don't hold me to that one. It would be kind of weird if it's like if we're the biggest customer paying the biggest amount, >> right? >> What kind of fools would we be? >> I think he was charging a delivery. >> I know that Matt Kamissa oversees this whole thing. And I and I he would be the
guy to ask is everybody paying the same 28.50 50 or is that just our contract with Bruce? I don't know the answer to that, but I know where to get it. [snorts] So, that's 2025 as I know it. If anybody
has any contrary numbers to this, by all means, let's hear it. Um, but that's what we have right now. The last two years, >> the last page is telling >> with the >> with the graph >> the graphics >> and the cost and the spike and
>> nice work this little pamphlet context. Got to have context, right? Um, speaking of Bruce, let me give you a few Bruce notes. I met with Bruce uh on the first week
ago yesterday at his home in Fair Haven. um I needed to deliver the check to him to kind of expedite things. We do things to help him out in that regard. Chris always did that and I will continue to do what we can to grease the wheels and
make things work smoother. Um he still has the issue of the insurance policy that has not been settled yet. Everybody's lawyered up at this point. uh his insurance is through Mass Loftman's association which most of us
are aware of. Um but that issue has not been settled yet. On top of that there's an issue of an environmental fine I guess is not the word he used but he led me to believe that there are others who would like to speak to him
financially about that whole series of events. And I think we can all understand that you spill just a little bit of oil here, it gets very expensive really fast. So, I know he's dealing with some of that as well, you know, but he's the kind of guy, and
I think we've all seen it. Um, you know, you think you've he's down for the count. These guys just keep coming back and coming back. So, I guess what I'm trying to say, uh, gentlemen, is I have no idea whether or not he will continue
next year or not. That's, uh, out of my purview. Uh, once I hear something, if I do, I'll certainly pass it on. Um, if I were to put odds on it right now, I'd say probably 50/50.
Um, [clears throat] so hopefully he gets through all this and and we continue with business as usual. Um, I just don't know. I can't give you any answer right now. [snorts] >> Just as a followup to that, Cap, I think this was important that we keep a
contact with our both personal and professional relationships with the state since they oversee this whole project. And if anybody's going to have a sniff as to where it's going to go, >> our contacts with them. So, you know, I think that's something [snorts] we,
>> you know, keep our eyeballs on because they'll know out >> front. >> They'll know before we even get to the contract stage >> because he's right now he's a soul service sole source provider. >> Mh. >> And puts everybody all the way down Cape. All of us
>> even though we're the largest customer. >> No, very good point, Chief. And you know as well as anybody, we have a great relationship with these guys. >> Yeah. Um my conversation with Matt Kamissa was was pretty enlightening. He did say one thing of note that is uh
Fair Haven did not get any co-hogs after Bruce got up and running again. They all came to us. We took everything that from the [snorts] time he restarted. >> Do you know what date that was that he got up and running again? >> I do. It's right in front of you actually.
October 27 >> October 27th. So Friday, August 8th to Monday, October 27th. >> When we ended this >> pretty much down for two months. >> Bill, do you know is he fishing now? >> 30 and 33. >> Does he, >> you know, Chris, he mentioned something
about doing clean cohog fishing off of Swansea? >> Uh, but I don't know when he did that or to what kind of when the relay stops, he he still [snorts] fishes. >> No, he's still got the green cohogs to
to deal with as well. And I know he he gets more out of those. Uh, >> you know, you know what's interesting to me though, the reason I asked that question was because after he got back up and running, we were the only
customer, so to speak, and the bushels didn't increase. You would think they would. Well, there's a graph in there, uh, Skip, for that as well. >> But I mean, when he started up again, it
was 33, 18, 61, 71, 67, 35. So, you would think that it would have jumped because or at least been more often, but he had trouble after he got going trying to get back in the groove. >> He did. He had a couple of tough days.
As you >> It's a good thing we were the only customer because it was very sporadic after that and it probably would have been way worse. >> Well, I think the reason we were the only customer, my understanding is that Feaven said we can't do it at this point and I don't know what that reason was. So, we were the only game in town for
him. >> So, going to Chief's point, yeah, we need to be negotiating here, not just saying, "Okay, we'll pay it." [snorts] And and I would go beyond just the financial side of things. Um the responsibility if you look at the contract the responsibility for keeping
the boxes intact uh keeping the trailer going and and the whole safety issue is on him not on us. But we've done a lot of things to again to grease the wheels to keep this thing going as smooth as we can.
>> Including taking light boxes. >> Well, that you know is not the biggest issue though Chris. We've had this discussion. We never did get to weigh those like we wanted to at the very end. I [snorts] think when before the next contract is signed that that ought to be addressed
>> that >> well but that number is in all of the contracts is supposed to weigh 40 pounds period >> do they I think we can all say [snorts] >> probably not. >> So how do you go about uh ensuring that
that's the case? How do you kind of keep them honest for lack of a better term? I'm I'm all ears if somebody's got ideas. Um but certainly that needs to be part of the discussion before >> John used to count them. John, >> I really did. Yeah.
>> Wasn't that more for a call of the size? >> Size. Yeah. >> Yeah. That was for size. >> So, >> going to put a line in a box and weigh the box and maybe put a line so you get an idea how far it goes to where 40 lbs
is. Good idea. Really [snorts] have some kind of a line maybe. >> Yeah, good idea. >> I mean, so far up then guys fill it pretty much somewhat. >> Well, you you know, you got the his his typical crew is, you know, I'm sure
they're not making sure they're all 40, right? They're just stuffing the boxes and stacking them up. >> That's why he had slack days because he lost a few crew. Then when he got back up to 61 and 70 was back to almost normal with the 30 boxes number guy who
at that time I think it's also time po Paul what to your point when we enter into this if we enter into this contract in agreement with him you know we can say those boxes what weigh 40 lbs for those of us that touch those
boxes every day half of them are filled with mud. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. you know, and you're gonna have a box that's half full and you dump it, it's filled with mud. >> Um, >> well, maybe I think that's probably on us to make sure >> we got to keep them in. Sometimes you
have to hold his feet to the fire. You know, he's a >> But >> so here here's just a thought. What if you weighed 10 boxes and use that average to say you're 10% below average? So if you're 10% below average, you owe
us 10% on the next load. Yeah. I don't know if that's doable or not, but something like that has got to be in place. >> You only have to happen once or twice and then it'll be >> He's going to >> You won't have to worry about it. He's not going to like it. >> Yeah. >> Because [clears throat] at that point,
the contract is in our favor. >> Mhm. >> You know, >> I think the contract should always be in our favor, right? >> Yeah. He's going to live in He's got to live up to his >> um signature. I mean, right down to the tail lights on the trailer that uh I
used to lose asleep over that, you know, no brake lights, no tail lights, you know, and you bring it up to them, it's like, oh, well, you know, it was working yesterday. No, it wasn't, you know, so stuff like that got to be addressed as well. You know, this is a safety issue.
Anyway, um, >> so let me talk about the actual cost of what this was. So 3,665.5 boxes of Khogs cost us $104,466.75. On top of that, we spent $9,900 on Khog
seed from Mongus Bay and that total is $114,366.75. That's what we spend for actual shell stock, right? But there's more to this that we have to consider. If you want to look at the
whole picture of how much did this relay cost, you have to consider a couple of things. First of all, I know for a fact [clears throat] that the distance from the state boat ramp to [snorts] the dock in Fall River is 25.6 miles. We are
driving that four times every single day we do a relay. So, we're driving 100 miles just to execute the relay. We did 54 trips, 5,400 miles. We take
you from here to Seattle and back to St. Louis. A little bit of context there. The total hours involved uh are about 4 hours for any given relay. So, you know, you leave the shack at 1300. By the time
you get back to the shack, it's probably 1630. So, let's use 4 hours for the sake of argument. That's 216 hours of driving. Now, if this department is paying an
assistant harbor master $2149 an hour, that amounts to $4641 just to pay for the driver. The gallons of gasoline, I figure about 317. [snorts]
Uh I'm using 17 miles to the gallon in that truck is probably less than that. And there's uh at 280 a gallon, there's another $900. So if you want to tally up the total cost of what this cost, the
shellfish propagation fund, it's 119,000 almost $120,000 for 3665 bushels and 220,000 cohog seed. >> The salaries aren't paid by the propagation.
>> They are not. But somebody's got to drive and somebody's got to get paid to drive. >> Okay? >> I mean, if I ask Kevin, and Kevin drove quite a bit, he's serving at that princely sum of 21.49 an hour. If I'm driving, it's 2 and a half times that.
If Frick's driving, it's twice that. >> So, there is an expense there. That's got to be considered. >> Yeah. I think we should look into eliminating one of the trips there by buying the boxes. Well, as one of the primary drivers, I'm all ears.
>> Yeah. You know, >> just so one of the trips is just to return boxes and trails. >> Exactly. >> You got to bring the trailer back because the boxes are on the trailer. They load them up at 0600 and then they take off. And >> so when you get to the trailer point, is the trailer loaded?
>> No. >> No. No. We help. >> So it doesn't matter if the trailer is there or not. >> The trailer could The trailer could go up the next day. It go up the next day. >> If we had our own trailer and boxes, we'd be ahead,
>> right? >> You still got to get the boxes on the boat from the trailer. >> No, I understand. If we had a trailer and we had the boxes, we could eliminate that expense of having to go back up and return the >> You'd need twice the number of boxes that he returned
>> just to leave a load with him. >> So, let let's say he has a great day. He has 90. He needs 180 boxes. Yeah. Right. So, you'd need 360 to make that all copi. And I know the estimate that you found, Ron, was was pretty pricey. Uh, is there an alternative to that? Maybe.
I don't know. >> I stopped looking since it was the end of the season, but >> you might Yeah, >> we can. >> We're doing it backwards. We're going up there and we're waiting for them to come in and offload to us,
whereas it should be the other way around. We're going up there and they should be waiting for us to offload like any exchange of merchandise. So, if they come in on time, that's great. If they're early, they're upset because they've got to wait around. They're
still getting paid. >> Mhm. >> If we're late, I mean, if we're early, we wait around. So, you know, it's a t, you know, forget the timing. The point is is that we're doing it backwards >> and we're waiting on them. We're serving
them. It should be the other way around in my opinion. When we show up, those boxes when we show up, they should be loading those boxes on that trailer or that trailer should be loaded for us. If you were driving a tractor trailer, you don't sit around and wait for it to be
loaded. You pick up the load and you're gone. >> And you know, that's taking a lot of time, our time. If we had the extra boxes, we could solve that. If you fig when with all your figures and stuff, if you figured if the I know you can pay for delivery,
would that save money overall with the gas and the trips and the hours? >> I was just going to bring that up, Ron. Yes, you could, but I don't know what that number is, you know. Um, >> and how inconvenient it may be if they don't show up on time, then we're
sitting down the ramp waiting for two hours. >> All volunteers, by the way. >> Yeah, exactly. And the boat broke down, whatever. He's getting towed in. He doesn't have a cell phone, didn't call anyone. At least when you're in control of your own destiny. >> No, but you instead you're just waiting
for him in forever if he breaks down. >> Same thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If I added up the the amount of hours I sat there waiting for him because he's supposed to be there at 13:45. Never works out that way. Uh it was hours and hours over the course of the season. So,
is it financially sensible to ask him to deliver them? We need to find out. It certainly would save this department a whole lot of time because we have to spend a half a day every day that there is a relay on and that's a big burden.
And I know if Chris was sitting right here, he'd be shaking his head. Yeah. >> Well, we have a baseline number and the numbers you just provided. We know what it costs in miles. We know what it costs in time. We know what it costs in fuel. >> Mhm. So if let's just say that number is $10,000 just throwing it out and he's
charging us 15 and we know who's who's where the hustle is. So we I mean we have a baseline so we should maybe talk to him about that and then see where he can keep those numbers you know >> in your back pocket. I [snorts] I don't
see any reason why if he was agreeable that we couldn't bring him maybe not necessarily here in this setting, but maybe we could get him down the shack and just talk about the details about this and give them the wise and the >> wherefors >> and how you know if you want to continue working with us over the years because
now we're looking at maybe a new five fiveyear grant window. I don't know yet. Um but that is not just a good thing for us. That's also good for him. So, we have some negotiating leverage in my view and I
don't see why we couldn't just have a little face to face on this one. >> I'd like to take it a step further and have a conversation with the state and see what the fishability is of that area. If we look at these numbers, some of us around here remember days of 100 bushel
constant [snorts] hundreds of bushels a day and now we're at 2/3 of that. >> Mhm. Um, is it is it getting fished out? Does the state think it's being fished out? If we enter a five-year contract and it's fished out in two years, what happens then? You know,
>> that's a really good point. >> No, it's it's >> Well, then you got a lot of money for cohog seed. >> Yeah. Not a lot of time. >> You can't buy what they don't catch. >> Yeah. >> So, [snorts] you have you all have the the graph of the daytoday. This is the
2024 report that Chris had put together. And I just kind of quickly put these dates and numbers down and I created a graph for 2024. I didn't bring it cuz it's a little depressing. Uh because it makes the point that the 90 bushel days may be at
an end. Um >> we had days when we used two boats. >> Yeah. I remember one of my first days helping out was with two boats, both Carolina skips >> and it came in. So, what happens if Bruce delivers? Does he drop the trailer
off and leave? Because you got to put them on the boats, you got to take them out, you got to dump them, you got to come back, and then you got to put the empty containers ashore. >> Well, you'd have to sit there and wait for us. >> Exactly. So, now he's getting into, you know, does he drop the trailer and then we put the containers back in the
trailer and he comes back, picks the trailer up, it's the same, it's going to be the same complaint on his end. You know what I mean? Because he drives all the way down here. He's got 75 bushel on there. He everybody does a chain gang
and gets him off onto the skiff and then what does he do? Sit there and wait until we steam halfway down the river, dump them all out. That can take hour boxes. >> And we have the boxes >> and we have the boxes. Otherwise, it's almost like you need to have in order
for him to do it and make any make any progress with this, you'd have to have double the boxes, right? Then so he could dump the boxes and the next time he comes down, we put the empties back on or maybe we invest in our our half of the boxes so that we can have them in.
>> I mean, this it seems like there's a little bit of negotiating. >> Well, I think doubling the boxes is definitely a solution. how we work that out logistically. We're just going to have to see. >> We do have a price on that. Ron, you got a price on boxes. Um, so we
>> I'm still looking. Like I said, but you might have some I went right to the uh manufacturers, you know, not go through like >> Yeah. Uline or one of them. Yeah. >> And like the guys that make the Home Depot buckets and stuff, but there was still a lot of money. probably get them
out of Canada and Canada would probably manufacture those pretty cheap. >> A lot of them too have have a minimum have a minimum and even a hundred is >> below their minimum. [clears throat] >> Yeah. I was surprised at the minimum and you got >> you know I guess they sell them to a
whole a town you know like a thousand boxes. >> Yeah. >> And it isn't worth their effort to just manufacture a hundred. >> I think if you get the right manufacturer they will they'll do it though. >> Yeah. It's just like buying those Logitech crates. >> You know, some guys buy a thousand at a
time, some guys buy. >> There's nothing in the fishing industry that's comparable to that size. I don't think that >> really >> guys would use their totes or crates and stuff. >> No, not rigid like that. >> You know, there are comparable
containers, but >> Yeah. And you got to get the ones that >> stack. >> You can stack them. They nest. >> Yeah, that's [snorts] nest. N nesting. Yeah, that's what we call them. Or maybe in the whole process of negotiation, we say, "Bruce, you got to keep two sets of boxes for us.
>> That's cheaper way out for him." >> Yeah. >> I mean, I know I know what you were saying, Ron. I know the the numbers, the volume, the minimum that they were just in your basic research, but those But that's not an issue for us. That's could
be an issue for the provider, >> whoever that is. But >> so that's what I have for the numbers. I just want to throw out one other little tidbit for your consideration. $211,000
sounds like a lot of money. It is a lot of money. And we'll have another $100,000 April 1st. So let's call it 311 for the sake of argument. >> Where' the last hundred come from? >> The last hundred will be deposited on
the first from the Man Foundation. the 1st of uh April as it has been in the past. >> Okay. >> But that is the last one in that series. So um again I've been very much in touch with these folks. They seem very
engaging and uh and very helpful. So whatever they need after the report is submitted as far as the next potential grant, I'll be all over it. Um, we do have to consider. I think you all
should consider this. Just my personal opinion. If that does not happen, there needs to be some money for a rainy day. And one of the things I agreed with
Chris on uh is that he looked at this propagation fund in a very conservative sense financially. We got to keep something for a rainy day. Let's not just draw this down just because we can
shell stock didn't make it this year as we all know. We're all part of that and so that money didn't happen as well. So I think this is a time to be cautious, conservative,
and think about money for a rainy day. So, >> because I think we're at a precipice here. This could go one way or the other. >> I agree with you, Bill. And one thing that I I was advocating for in the past was
I think it's important one of the thoughts of Shelltock when it was originally [snorts] um came to inception was I think it and I could be wrong, but tell me what you guys think. I think it's important that
we establish sooner rather than later a seed program whether it's you know small seed or whatever because at some it's just what you're saying I if at some point let's just say Bruce in two years
says I can't do it anymore I'm retiring we don't have a backup all of a sudden we're going to go through a couple of gap years where until the seed reaches is maturity. We're not going to we're going to fish out the river. So, I think that it's
important for us now, even though we need to have money for a rainy day. We don't want to blow all the money on just buying seed right now and then have the bottom fall out of it. But, I think it's more important now to to to raise more money. But also, I think it's important to get some type of a seed program going
so that in three or four years, we're harvesting that as well as the bushels that we're getting from relay and everything else. But I think that right now we don't we've bought some seed in the past but I don't know how much of our fruits of our labors we've seen from
that. >> I don't think any of us do >> you know but I do think that we need to start getting you know a half a million a million seed every year and spending a h 100,000 150,000 on that. I don't know where the money's going to come from,
but we all have got other Ryions in the fire with shell stock, but >> well, where where the Madden Foundation weighs in, assuming they do and says, "I've got four more years for you guys. Excuse me, five more years." But >> we can kind of be a little more liberal. >> Yeah. Just taking your numbers though,
3665 is what Manton Foundation paid for this year cuz that was aboutund and something thousand and that was what the that's what the grant was. Oh, we spent more than what they gave us. There's no way. >> Yeah, exactly. But I'm just saying we we can say for I mean and probably less
given the the rate of increase per bushel. >> Is that >> um you know it's going to be even less. So it'll be down to 3,000 bushels is what 100k gets you soon. >> Mhm. You know, one of the things to answer you to address what you're
talking about, Skip, is that we have had conversation about um changing up the numbers a bit and putting some money, not all of it, but some money into seed, but seed of a larger size of a sustainable size so that one, one, it
will sustain itself. It won't be subject to predation, and two, it'll save a year, 18 months on its grow up. Um, and when we deposited the sea this um, when did we do it, Chris? When
>> uh, that was >> August. >> It's in my phone. It was No, it was October. >> Was it October? Was it that late? We we, you know, deposited that seed in places where we have a good feeling that it's
going to take. and you know kind of an experiment but we gave it some serious thought on where we where we put it and historically where it has grown in in an area that could grow out in two or three years. So we're having that conversation but we really I agree with you. We need
to get deep into that conversation. >> We do we need to we need to start having a seed program where they're about the size of a quarter. >> You know >> it was some September 30th chief we did that >> September late >> September 30th. Yeah. Um, we did, uh,
Rick and I looked into the the cost of growing them out bigger. [clears throat] So, for tens to 14s, you're looking at $45 per thousand. If you want to go to 25s,
the number that I got from Liz was $75 per thousand. >> So, you want the bigger ones, you're going to pay dearly for it. So, where's the balance in there? >> I I don't know. >> [snorts] >> That's an imponderable. >> Yeah, >> we have to do some experimenting. Yeah,
I mean what we put out was was >> Yeah, but know maybe Karen would be interested in >> the size of >> throwing some out, [snorts] >> you know, just a thought. But he's got the he's got the resources to do it. He might say, "Hey, yeah, I'll I'll throw a
dozen shelves in there for you and see how they go." Mhm. >> Well, you know, that's perfect definition of a public private partnership. There's nothing wrong with that. >> No. >> Oh, if you guys could weigh in on the that issue, Mr. Chair, about do we want
to spend the money on the bigger ones? Do we want 220,000? Do we want 440,000? She needs an answer. So, >> well, you know, that's certainly a discussion we should have going forward and sooner than later. Um certainly not for tonight's agenda but certainly
something that should probably on the next meeting which we will set before we leave tonight. >> I would say just before we close that we would want to go with the 440 >> now while the relay program is in effect and working. We can probably get away
with a smaller seed. Yeah. Because we do have a couple of years of the bigger stuff coming and then we would have to keep saving money and then if we do come into a gap year, that's when we want to go to the bigger stuff so we could jump up. >> Just my thought.
>> Well, that's all I have, Mr. Chair. That's everything that I know. >> I got one more question about the relay. If uh he quits, [clears throat] is the state going to look for another uh dredgeboat or >> the uh conversation I had with Matt
Kamissa the other day was there is nobody else. >> Would there be maybe if we all looked really hard? Possibly. I talked to CB the other day about Al Rancarell. You know, Al is very much into the whole dredging world. Maybe he could put us on
to someone if uh if Bruce can't answer the call. But I think based on what we >> somebody would step up. We just move on. >> Kevin, >> I know. I' I've been had that bug in his ear for years. [clears throat]
>> Yeah. I keep telling him you complain about the lobster and so why don't you do that? >> And I got to jump in here and kind of temper the meeting a little bit here. Um, are you you all set, Cap? >> I'm all set. Thank you. >> Okay. If if nobody objects, it is a public meeting. We're in public session.
I if not there's no objection. I'm going to enter your report into the notes that are done when they're done and I'll put them on a public website so everyone can see them. It's a public meeting. We're in public session. So, okay. >> In compliance. Okay. Thank you, Captain. I appreciate that. Uh, the information
is good. We'll share it with the world who wants to look on the website. Um, moving on. Very quickly, uh, item number three, discuss the oyster reef revitalization project. This is just a heads up that on Monday night, a week from last night,
um, the Nature Conservancy and the Department of Marine Fisheries will be making a presentation in front of the select board to get their approval on the reuse of the river for the oyster revitalization project to just to bring you a memory back. Um, this board voted
unanimously in support of it. Um, Captain Chase invited me to the Harvard Advisory Committee and we talked about it. I gave a a synopsis of what they gave me. Um, working off of the presentation from the state. Um, and we
get unan unanimous support from the Harvard Advisory Committee. So, we'll be going into that meeting next Monday night with the unanimous support of of the two groups that really are involved in this and should be involved in this and have have a a stake in this project.
So, >> what time is that? You know, >> that's at Well, the meeting starts at 1,800. Um, the agenda hasn't come out yet that that I've seen. Have you seen it yet, K? >> Oh, it's a regular selectman meeting. Oh, it's not something special. >> Yeah. No,
>> we are on the agenda. I know too much. >> We're on the agenda. I just don't know exactly what time it is. So, that was just anformational purpose. This keeps coming up. Number item number four. Um, I just want to clarify one thing before we open up for discussion. Um, item four
is um I get getting ahead of myself. Number four, discussion relating to future planning of Ships Rock Sunk Rock Relay area as well as other areas. So, I'm going to open that up for discussion. um for future planning and when we can
combine some items here and when we want to talk about opening other relay areas. So let's talk about the future planning of Shiprock Sunk. Is there any conversation relative to that? It is still open and it's going to stay open
as an overflow or an emergency um in case things go south for whatever reason. >> Plant there do we >> I'm sorry. >> Nothing to plant there, do we? Well, whether we want to plant in the future, >> we didn't plant there this year. It's open now. >> Yeah, it's open. But >> so I don't >> kind of put
>> Yeah, exactly. I don't really see a [snorts] a decision being made here about >> Yeah, >> things that are way down the road. >> Okay. >> Uh we can we can definitely talk about it when
>> when we get the relay going again. >> Yep. for one thing. So, >> and how much of a relay we have operating at that point in time. >> Yeah. But >> it came up and it came up again. So, that's why it's on the agenda. Dean, you have anything?
>> Yeah. There's no sense in making it a formal shut it off. Just leave it uh flexible. >> Okay. Oh, it's going to stay open. I mean, it has to stay open. Yeah. You know, does >> it will remain as a relay area. >> Yeah. in order to change that. It's it's it's above our pay grade,
>> right? It's just that some people some people complain that it's too hard to get cohawks out, >> but >> if you work at it, you can get get your limit. So >> sometimes you need areas like that so that they it's also very healthy in
>> they look good. >> Yeah, it it is a very healthy area. The cohogs all have growth rings, you know, white. So anyway, let's talk about that. >> So, do I hear a motion to table it?
>> I make a motion to table number four, discussion relating future planting of ship rock sunk rock relay area. >> I second it. >> All in favor? >> I opposed. Moving on. Number five, discussion.
Opening dates for future relay areas. That's >> so the only area you got really that's fully planted is David Road. >> Yep. >> And and ready. That's the ace in the hole. [snorts] >> Yeah. >> And there aren't many cars after that.
>> So, one of the thing about David Road is if we open it in the summer months, people had their boats on the moorings and planted a lot of stuff right near the moorings. And in the past, that's caused conflict. >> Yeah, it is.
>> Yes. So, what do you guys think? >> Well, what I think about that those people pay taxes, they probably want to dig there, too. So, if we start this not open it when they don't have their boats there, you know, later on is that, you
know what I mean? It's an area for you got to have an area for everybody to dig sometimes, right? >> So, >> the 300 be conflict because you don't know until all you guys think your votes out. Well, you know, to your >> my front yard and we're paying taxes
that piece, we want to be there, too. So, it can go back and forth both ways. >> To your point, Paul, um, that's an excellent point because there's 300 plus res uh, recreational licenses.
>> Something something to be said for that. Well, that's >> Oh, Mr. Chair, if if I might, this this I I left this out. This is kind of important to this whole issue. I've mentioned in the past about the issue of
how long the Khogs have to stay on the bottom before they can be legally harvested. I had that conversation with Matt Kamissa and he said I can guarantee you that 2026 that will not change. [snorts]
>> So it will not change will not change 61 days. 60 days plus the sunrise. Okay. >> So, we last planted and David rode >> a total of 1136.5 bushels November 18th
of this year. That was the last deposit we made in David Road. So, going forward 61 days, two months. So, we got no we have November, December, January. It's fair. It can be fair game if we
decide to open anytime after February >> to be safe. >> November 18th. So December 18th, January 18th. >> How about late spring? And then Paul's point we can take into account late spring >> like the third week in >> how long how long does it take to clear
out clean out David road? How much how many weeks fishing? >> I don't care because you got a you're on a rain closure. >> Yeah. Well, let's just say let's just say best case scenario cuz if it goes longer that's good. Also the shortest >> the shortest time period to fish that out. >> Yeah. It's hard to say.
>> 1100 fishing fishing days any of the areas. >> Right. Right. >> Always something. >> Yeah. So, 1100. >> Is it two months though? Is it two months? >> Could be longer. >> It could be longer. If you do it May, you got till the middle of July.
>> So, middle [snorts] of May goes to the middle of July. should should cover >> and and further >> scratch everybody's back. >> There'll be, you know, depending on the closures, there'll be interest in that area for as long as it's open.
>> Yeah. >> And to that point, Chris, we currently still have Shiprock open. We still have Great Island, even though that's subject to a point 2. So, we would have 2.2 areas open. um two point
2 areas that are closure areas. >> So if we were to open David Road as you as you mentioned Ron or or um >> y >> skip we would still have a sizable amount of open area because
great island Paulie you know better than anybody hasn't been fished out because of the point. It's a point 2 area. >> There's more to go. Yeah. >> There's more to Oh Chris, you've been up there. You've been up there. ain't never going to get it all. >> And that's the only drawback is it's it's a it's a closure area.
>> Yeah. >> You know, it's restricted to some degree. >> I know. What do you think that we can make? >> Well, I maybe should think about it a little bit more. Do you have to make a decision today? >> No. No, we don't have to. We could change. If we did make a decision, we can
>> Yeah. Think it out. You know, >> we have time. >> We have time because we just literally we just opened grandma. I mean, >> yeah. half moon. >> Uh the idea being it's not going to open up early
than May. >> No need [snorts] to really. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. And the business starts to pick up again the seafood business >> summertime. >> Yep. >> And hopefully we'll be back in the relay business by May. >> Exactly. Exactly. We can close.
>> We can close and then open and figure out >> and we should have an answer from Manton by then. Correct. >> Absolutely. >> So, we'll have a lot of answers by then. >> Yeah. >> The foundation, the relay, a lot of things that we'll know. And if all of those things fall through, then maybe we
push it back. >> Okay. >> So, I' I'd like to make a motion to uh say table the opening deciding on an opening date for David Road till further discussion.
You know, >> maybe we'll put it on the agenda for our next meeting and that'll give us, you know, whether whatever that is, we can put it on an agenda going forward. >> Yeah, I'll second that. >> Yeah, I hear a second. Any more conversation? Discussion.
>> All right. All in favor? >> I oppose. Unanimous. Okay. Moving on. This is the big one. Temperature restriction. I just want to clarify this before we go any further and then we can just just little something to chew on before we open this
discussion. Um, I took Ron's list of um, members of the Massachusetts Shellfish Organization and I went to all their websites. Um, not all of them. I didn't do the Northshore. Um, a lot of them had a lot of good
information. I'll leave it at that. Some of them not quite as as informative, but when they talk temperature restriction, they talk scolops only. um they don't talk about cohogs, they don't talk about, you know, they do talk about culling, they do talk about hygiene and
different terms, but their major issue is shellfish for shellfish is scolops and that scolops won't survive. Um so having said that this discussion I would think would probably be a benefit to everybody's
time and energy if we just limited it to the use of scolop to the temperature restriction if any of scolops. Um I know we're not having a ban of scolop season here. There are two towns and I forgive me if I don't have this correct but it's
I know it's Felmouth and I know it's Bourne. One is 30° by 10:00 a.m. The other is 28° by 10:00 a.m. for scolops only. So, I haven't said that. I throw it out for discussion. So, the way that works is if it doesn't
reach 30° by 10:00 a.m. by an agreed source, could be anybody. It could be the thermometer in your backyard. As long as it's a standard that we use, scolops are not open for that day. in one of the other towns, whether it's Borne or Falmouth, I might have them.
>> Almost every town has its temperature restrictions. >> Yeah, it's like 20. >> I saw like 10 of them. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Does that work for uh enforcement for on your end? Does the >> warden for you to make the call? Is it >> Yeah, that's not a problem at all. We
just decide on what thermometer we're going to use. Doesn't have to be >> right. >> Noah. It doesn't have to be. It could be anybody's thermometer as long as you use one standard. Doesn't matter what it is. >> Um. >> Okay. >> Universal.
>> Let's go here. Why do we Why do we even need a temperature restriction? >> That's for scallops from >> because another town has it. We don't need it. >> For scolops on a table. >> Yeah, I get it. >> Flash freeze the scallop seed. That's why they have a temperature on scolop
seed. The crab used to give me a hot time a long time ago going cold weather scon the sea hits the table it flashes you kill that's why the temperature >> right >> and it's on the buyer's end it's really not us it's on it's on the that you
can't >> well it's the seed you don't want to destroy the seed >> towns that's why the other towns have that they get such crops every year they probably got seed mixed in with their good ones you [snorts] know what I mean so they probably came up with that temperature so you wouldn't flash freeze
our town. I don't know if we have that. I remember five years ago we had that big crop. >> Yeah, we had that big crop, but there was no seed. >> Yeah, there was no seed, but I don't think it was a temperature because we were going in cold weather. Now I I I to your question, Chris, I I don't if let's
just say for discussion that we were to say 28 degrees on X thermometer by 10:00 a.m. Um that's not a problem for enforcement. You don't get that many days and usually it's a day that's bit
like today. It, you know, barely hit 28 degrees. That's kind of a no-brainer. And be quite honest, the shellfishes in this river, they know the game. Everybody knows the game. Everybody knows the rules and they know why. It's not like in a place like
Bourne or Sandwich that has huge number of marshes and huge impossible areas. Um even out on a vineyard, you know, Oak Bluffs is huge area which they have to, you know, so we don't we have pretty good rate. We have pretty good compliance in this town and I'm not
afraid of that. So guess food for information. [snorts] I know what you Paulie made a good point. Um thank you Paul. >> It seems to be going along pretty smooth the way it is. We haven't had any
problems and just one more rule is one more rule. >> Well, we're certainly going to we're open for discussion and open for a motion. Um, >> I'd like to make a motion to table this >> that we have a scolop season. [laughter] >> See how much seeds out there.
>> We're going to waste time talking about uh a a temperature restriction on a fishery. We don't know if it exists yet. [snorts] >> Right. When the when the time arises, we will address it. >> Yeah. I think that as soon as we get some feedback from the river that
there's some seed in the river and it looks like we're going to because we always know that in the summer. >> Yeah. when you're digging and uh I know in the past whenever we've had those big years, you know, in the summer you're like, "Oh boy, >> it's going to be a good it's going to be a good fall because they're mixed right in with the cohogs." >> So, you know it.
>> They were loaded the year before. I mean, they my dredge come up and they were right to the sweep all like quarters. Flew them back next year. Sure enough, they made it. This year, I didn't find much. >> About 300 scallops so far. That's how I
count them. I'm up to 300 right now. >> Nice ones. But I I looked all over and I'm going to keep looking. But you know, I've stumbled on a little piece. I mean, the last time I had a 130. >> Where was that? [laughter]
You just got to drive around this room. You can't hide. You can't hide this room. >> Yeah. No. >> You know what I mean? You're not going to hide from Rick. I'm telling you. >> Well, it's not that anywhere. You know what I mean? There's no hiding. Paul, so you didn't find a GPS I put on a on your boat, >> the beacon.
>> You want to see my phone? You want to know [clears throat] where you were today? >> Not. >> So, I got a motion on the table. >> I'll second it. >> Any discussion? Further discussion? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. >> All in favor? >> I
>> opposed. >> Tabled. >> Mr. Chair, I [clears throat] need to take my leave. Um, sorry. Okay. Well, thank you and thank you for your um contribution, Cap. We appreciate it. [snorts] >> Okay. It's perfect timing. Moving on to
number seven. Any other items anticipated in the last 48 hours? We have any discussion? Anything that needs to be brought forward? >> Closing. >> Okay. You guys got anything you want to talk about? >> Hearing none. Bruins are on tonight, by
the way. Um, okay. Hearing none, moving on. Next meeting date. Um, >> I I think we just put a placeholder out there. We can always change it. Sorry, Chris. >> 2026. >> That's the date, baby. >> The next scallop season. [snorts]
>> Uh, let's get our dates out here. >> Yes. >> Can I just mention something? Today, we were talking to the buyer harvester about cohawk seed, and he said up there way, they use something called a protection bag. And [snorts] they have to use them because the crabs eat it all. If it's
the small seed, they get it all. I I don't know that anything about the protection bag, but I guess with grants, it's a real common thing. >> Who is that? >> We think if we buy seed, we should look into that. >> Yeah. He said you definitely have to
invest in the bags if you want if you're going to spend the money to buy seed you have to use the protection bags >> and it was where him and who born. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, he's trying to help. So >> yeah, we should research that. >> Yeah, sure. >> I will do that. Would you could you make
a note in that in the in the minutes? My memory is good. It's just short. >> Okay. Having said that, thank you. Um Dean, appreciate that. Um date. Anyone have a date or date they prefer just as a placeholder at this point?
>> We should we move after the holiday season. So maybe right after the first of the year. >> Yeah, I I agree. >> I mean couple of weeks it's Christmas then it's January. >> Yeah. Like maybe January if we stick with a Tuesday we could do either the 6th or the 13th.
>> When did he say he was going to find out about that grant? The Mantis grant >> man. Oh, he files. >> That was February, wasn't it? >> February. >> Want to wait till after that? >> Before April. >> Yeah. He has to have the grant in by
>> first year. It's going to happen. >> The last installment's on April 1st, >> right? But we have to >> Let's throw a date out there, Rick, of January 13th. We if we don't have any agenda items, we can always >> push it back, but at least we've got something.
>> And that's a Tuesday. >> That's a Tuesday. 11326 >> 26 >> 113 What is that? 13 or 15? >> 11326. >> 113 26. Okay, that'll be that'll be our
next meeting tenatively. We can change it if we need to. >> Um either one way or another if something comes up. So, having said that, do uh entertain a motion to >> Well, I I'd like to I'd just like to comment on Bill. I think he's doing a great job contacting the people first
before it's too late. He's staying right on top of everything. >> He is. He's doing a good job. >> Noticeable. >> He hasn't missed a beat. >> Not even one. >> I mean, he's he's doing a really good job. >> I think >> I I think I think Chris did a great job,
too. But I think you guys uh have made a the dynamic duo. >> Yeah. Right on. >> We thank you. And I'll I'll share that with captain in the morning and uh we'll uh >> we'll keep keep marching. I mean,
>> as we have said this before, >> it's about people that fish this river, but it's also about the river. >> And um you can put it either way you want because without one, you don't get the other. >> That's right. >> So, >> okay. So, we're journ until 1:13.
>> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. Second. >> All in favor? I >> I >> wish everyone a merry