Okay, >> all set. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the shellfish advisory board meeting of May 6th, 2026. The time is 5:36 p.m. If everyone could stand, we'll do
the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the standy. >> Thank you. >> Uh first item on the agenda is typical business. Um We do have um before we go, we do have
one member who is absent tonight. Um Dean will not be with us tonight. Um so moving on to item number two, acceptance of the minutes from our January meeting. Do I hear a motion? >> Motion to accept.
>> Second. >> Second. >> All righty. Um all in favor? >> I votes unanimous. Um, if we could uh have our report from Bill Chase, director of marine services. Yeah. >> Okay. So, let's talk about money like we
always do from the outset. As of this afternoon, the shellfish propagation fund had $312,440.85. Out of that amount, we have $19,600 uh committed to $440,000 Kohhog seed that'll be delivered in
September. That leaves 282840 I think the number is. Uh we are going to commit to 3,000 bushels of Khogs with Bruce initially. That would leave us with a balance of
$199,940. Uh one comment about shell stock. You guys know we didn't have it last year. It is going to happen this year. If it does and if the powers that be uh give us a contribution to the shellfish propagation fund, then we can uh we can
look for more cohogs with that money. But until then, we're going to stick with 3,000 bushels. As far as the Manton Foundation goes, they gave us our last $100,000 on the 1st of April. I applied for a grant renewal on the
21st of January, and there has been no word on that yet. I tried calling Bruce three times today to find out what's going on. Um, no answer. What he did tell me on the 26th was he's doing Fair Haven first, Swansea
next, and then Wellfleet. you is you know that to be true as well, Matt. >> Uh right now the only town that has an a permit to receive contaminated relay is Fair Haven and Swansea will be second because those are the two towns that
didn't receive anything last year. So they're put at the front of the line. Beyond that, um I will be dealing speaking with Bruce about the schedule moving forward after those two are done. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't think it's set in stone. I have no doubt that's what he wants to
do, but I don't believe it's >> What about the Wealthfleet thing? Is that something you're aware of? >> Well, they get them every year. They usually are the first week of May. They're usually the first ones to go, you know, in addition to uh Westport. Um but they're delayed also. Everyone is
delayed because of the Swansea and Fair Haven cohogs that were not delivered last year that were ordered. >> Okay. >> Um Matt, do you know the amount that those pounds are getting >> uh Wealthfle oh I'm sorry uh Fair Haven
is getting >> Fair Haven's getting I believe 1,400 bushel but the first round that they're doing right now is only 800 and then they'll take a break and then do more it later in the in the fall. Um and Swansea is a very small amount. I want to say
somewhere between 150 and 300 probably closer to 150. >> Yeah, I haven't issued that permit yet. I tried today the permitting system was down. Otherwise, I would know exactly what that number was that uh that he's asked for. But it's usually very small amount. >> So, couple days of fishing, no more than
a week. >> Uh Bruce did say, so this conversation I had was on the 26. He did say that the first couple of days that he was out, he was only doing like 55 and 60 bushels. So, >> I've been receiving an update every day. Hey, I'm on a text string with Timmy Cox, the constable of Fair Haven, as
well as Bruce, and I'm seeing the totals every day, and he's somewhere around the low 60s each. You roughly low 60s every day so far with a few outliers, but >> okay, >> a little bit lower. Um, this part of my presentation, if you
will, has to do with the relay volunteers. back in 2024, uh Rick had u taken note of who showed up and who did not. And what's notable about this is that
there were basically 11 guys on this list that did the work of the relay. Two of them are now gone. One of them is AWOL and uh two of them only did a couple. So
that only leaves 1 2 3 4 five six that really got involved with the relay. Uh it takes and I think you'll all agree it takes five guys, five girls if Cindy were here um to make this happen safely.
So let's think about the numbers from last year. We had 53 days of relay. If it takes five people to execute that, we need 265, let's call them mandays to spread the
wealth, to spread the effort. And I'm curious from you guys, how many full-time co-hogers work in the Westport River now? What is that number? Is it 10? Is it 15? What is it, Paulie? >> Oh, it was only me today. >> No, no, I'm talking about
>> Yeah, it's >> how many regular Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays? the sum to go. >> So 15 is a good number >> 15. >> All right. So 265 divided by 15 equals the amount of days you all need to
participate if we're going to share the load equally. We agree on that. Okay. So what I need to know, what I'd like to know from all of you is how we going to make that happen? Because it's an awful big endeavor, as you all know, to get involved in the
relay, at least from the department's point of view. So when you look at the guys that were here in 24 and you look at what happened in 25 and I would point out a couple of days in 25 where there were just three of us in the boat and I think I might have been the
youngest guy. Yeah. Um so what I want to know from all of you is how we going to guarantee that we're going to have the help to make this work because if we're not we're not going down this road. I I don't understand this because all the times I went down
there to put relay in, we had to send guys away. >> Mhm. >> Where was we shot? >> Well, where were we shot? When I showed up one day and there was nobody in the parking lot. I had to take the cohogs back to my own driveway. >> Oh man, >> it works both ways, Frank.
>> But years ago, they only wanted so many people to go to the old administration. There's times they said, "Paul, you don't have to go to places." Like, "No, I'm going today cuz tomorrow I'm going lobster." >> I I can't speak to them what they did. >> I know. >> All I'm telling you guys is if you want
this to go, you're going to have to show us how you going to help out. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The guys that go all the time, they have to step up. >> I mean, isn't that fair? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I try to do one day a week. You know, you know, >> right? Well, you guys can think you guys can think about it and figure out how
we're going to make this happen. And I hope we do. All the diggers should have came tonight then. If we knew this was going to come in line, >> everybody gets a license, you you come. >> Absolutely. >> Like my brother too and everybody, right? We should have known better. >> We knew I know you only can put out so
much, but >> it was coming down to this. It needs all these guys to be here too and say, "Hey, you going to step up and do it?" If not, we're ending it. Amen. >> Well, there's been several meetings here where no one's been here. >> Yeah. >> Usually, we get a little crowd when there's something that gets everybody
riled up. And frankly, I think we should get you riled up every time. So, show them. >> Yeah. >> How many licenses are there normally each year? >> There were 44, I think, last year. 44 commercial licenses and a little over 400 recreational licenses last year.
>> So, then roughly onethird of the commercial guys should be contributing because they're like the full-time ones. Well, if if your income depends on the relay, >> and it does, >> you should be participating because
otherwise you're saying, "Yeah, you guys go do it. I'll just show up when the relay opens and I'll cash in." >> So, I'm just going to close this with one little comment. I believe everybody should share in this load. >> Yeah.
>> And in my opinion, this is just my opinion. If you hold a commercial license in the town of Westport, you should be required to participate. I don't know what that level is. Is it 10 days? Is it 15 days? I would take that
265 and divide it by 15 and I would say that is what you should be doing. >> Okay with me? >> I think that's fair. Don't you? >> Oh, yeah. >> All right. So, I'm going to ask Rick next meeting if he'll I'm just going to ask the shellfish board their opinion on
requiring participation in relay in order to get a commercial license. Now, I don't know if that'll fly with the town, but I will be formally asking these guys their opinion on this next meeting. >> That's going to be iffy because you're going to get people say, "Well, I don't
think there'll be a lake, but should I have to dump and I can get a commercial license?" But, so that that could be, you know, What's a commercial license worth without the relay? >> Nothing. >> Nothing. >> Well, until we get back seeding again somewhat someday. And you know what I mean? That takes a while.
>> That's going to take a while. >> And the river's hurting right now. >> Yeah. >> It ain't never going to be like it was. It's too many birds. There's too much fertilizer. They should have known this 200 years ago. You never build near the waterway. It's 10 10 miles away. It should have been done a long time ago.
Everything goes to the river. Everything goes to the ocean. You know, it's hurting. a lot of brown stuff, right? Birds tell over the season longer. They all do that. >> Bird does a lot. >> Well, I'm just I'm just throwing this
out there to all of you to think about, >> right? If if if there is no relay, there is no commercial fishing in the West. >> I was just going to say, >> well, you still get the commercial fishing. >> Yeah, that would be the end of it, wouldn't it, Frank? >> Yeah. >> So, it kind of goes, it bugs me a little bit where there are some guys that just
don't show up ever. Some guys don't get the 15 guys that you figure that really need to be there. >> Make that list. >> Well, I would say if you're a regular cohawk, we shouldn't have to ask you. >> No, but you're going to have those 15
guys. Is he one? Am I one? Is so forth one? They're going to have to step up. And >> if you're a commercial Khaga, you know who you are. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's all I got, Rick. Okay. Thank you, director. Um, moving on to
item number four. Um, with us tonight, I asked Matt Misa from the re, he's a regional shellfish supervisor for DMF to come in and, um, talk with everybody regarding the change postcoid
um, in the whole relay program. So Matt certainly um um agreed to come in and and sit here and take your questions and explain anything that needs to be said relative to uh you know this is a big issue. Um, there's enough said. Anyway, Matt, you
want Why don't you come up here? >> Can I sit up there so I'm not talking away from the crowd? >> You can sit. Yeah, you can sit up there or sit here. >> You're no Dean, just so you know. >> I know my place here already. >> Turn this mic on. >> Uh, good evening everybody. My name is
Matt Kamisa. Um, I am the regional shellfish program leader out of the New Bedford office for the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries. Part of my duties is to oversee the classification biologists that go out and do all the water sampling uh for Cape and the Islands um and all of
Buzzard's Bay uh for fecal contamination to classify the waters. We determine if the waters are approved or conditionally approved or prohibited and that's all based on fecal, right? Think sewage in the water. Um, I also oversee the New
Bedford lab that runs processes all those samples and I oversee the aquaculture program uh for the whole state. That's a $30 million industry in the state. As part of my duties as regional shellfish program lead, I also oversee the Taton River Contaminated
Relay program. Um, so that's directly under my control. I'm in uh in conversations with Bruce as often as I can get him on the phone. Sometimes he's hard to reach. Um, so I guess I'm here to answer questions, but I will start with um this this idea of going back to
the spawning season. Uh, a requirement that the cohogs are in the ground for a complete spawning season. So that was the way it always was. This is a propagation program. The idea is to put clams in an environment where they
otherwise were not. let them spawn for the duration of an entire spawning season, which historically was always June 15th to September 15th and then harvest them after. So you get the benefit of the cohog from the river into
Westport that you can harvest in the fall, but you also get the benefit of the spawn or maybe multiple spawns because it's not just um isolated to one event. It can happen more than once throughout the summer. So that was the normal. That's the way it always was
until CO hit. And at the same time that CO hit, we also went from two harvest vessels down to one. At one point, we had three harvest vessels. So that meant that prior to CO, when we had three harvest vessels, almost every town that wanted relay cohogs got them before the
spawning season cut off, right? So it was less of an issue. COVID hits, we're down to one vessel. Not even a third of the towns can get everything by June 15th. So we waved the spawning season
requirement and turned it into what is uh in the national shelfish sanitation programs requirement of a 60-day in the ground to deperate those related uh relayed cohogs. So that's how we ended up with 60 days for the last several
years. We've been threatening to go back to the spawning season uh closure for every year since I've been on shellfish, which started in 2022. And um we decided to pull the trigger and do that this year. After all, this is a propagation program. And the goal
is to enhance the resource in everybody's environments and enhance access to shellfish that otherwise would not be available to them. So hopefully that sheds a little bit of light on the history and why we went to the 60-day
and now why we're going back. >> Matt, before Sure. >> before we open it up, could could you go through the dates and the timeline? How is this going to work? >> Okay. Uh like this year like stuff going in. Okay. So >> start from
>> We also we also we altered the spawning season dates a little bit knowing that we're still at one harvest vessel. We said, "All right, we're not going to go with June 15th to September 15th. We're going to push it off two weeks and start on July 1st. That'll give us an extra two weeks to fill some orders for towns
that want to get stuff in before the spawning season starts." Um, so what that means for Westport is there are multiple relay areas. I'm also a Westport resident, so I have to be careful, but I'm sitting here tonight as a DMF employee in charge of Shellfish.
Um, there are multiple relay areas in Westport. There's plenty of options for rotating which ones are open and closed. And I think you all have done a very good job of doing that. So when you're when you start relaying clams this year,
the folks in charge are going to have to put some thought into which relay areas do they want to open this fall, say for Thanksgiving or for Christmas, some of the busy seasons where everyone's out there harvesting. Um, and those ones
need to be finished planting the relay cohogs by July 1. If they are great, they can open up after September 15th or whenever the water quality allows it to open or whenever the management decision from
the town allows it to open. Um, if they're not, they have to wait an entire year and through the next spawning season. So any relay clams that go in the ground after July 1 in Westport this
year will not be available to harvest until September 15th of 2027. That ensures one full spawning season in the ground. Now for for those areas that might receive something, let's say in
the month of July, we missed the deadline to open this fall, so they have to go longer, but they're still in in July. that area is going to receive the benefit of almost well a full year in 2027 spawning season and also the majority of the spawning season for this
year. So, um from a propagation standpoint, that's a very good thing. It'll have almost two full spawning seasons in the ground. And so, there might be a slight delay in how many cohogs can be harvested this fall. And a lot of that is going to
depend on how many clams we can get in the ground before July one in Westport. And that depends on Bruce's schedule. Unfortunately, we're still playing catch-up from the boat sinking last year. Towns didn't get their stuff. They're first on the list. Fair's fair. If you guys didn't get any last year,
you'd be adamant that you want them first this year. Um, so that's what we're trying to accomplish here. So, does that help explain what's going to happen this year with with relay clams in Westport? It >> does for me. Okay. What I'd like to do,
anybody before we open up for questions or comments, any >> comment from the board? >> A point of clarity. >> Sure. >> 60 days is the minimum that the clams are allowed to be >> that they have to be in the water.
>> They have to be in the water >> before they can even be tested. to be cleared to harvest, >> right? >> Yep. Um >> and then after that it goes to whether or not they've spawned >> or no whether they've made it through the the dates, spawning dates, they may have spawned, but
>> if they've made it through the spawning season in the ground, they've already hit that 60 days and then some. So that's a benefit. Um I don't want to get down into the weeds too much. There is a mechanism for relayed cohogs to be harvested sooner than 60 days, but it involves a huge cleansing study. We're
not doing that. So, the minimum requirement is 60 days in the ground. That's what we're starting with. Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And that's a that's a national standard. That's part of the NSSP. So, that ensures every state that's buying
product from every other state can be sure that the product is um safe to eat. It's all about public health. Everybody's doing the same thing, handling product the same way. Um and it ensures public safety and public health so no one gets sick. Understood. Thank you.
>> Any other questions from the board? Yeah. Anything? >> No. M talked about this adnauseium. >> The uh the only other thing I'll add is that um Westport's very lucky. We have wonderful rivers here. We have tons of space. We have multiple relay areas.
There are numerous towns that have one small growing area and within that one small growing area, they have one little tiny relay area and it might even be a seasonal area. So, it's closed half the year because of water quality. So, if they don't get it before July 1, they
have no fishing opportunity whatsoever in their town for 13 full months. So, I think you might be able to see why we might want to let those towns get their stuff prior to the spawning season because then they'd be fishing every
other year, literally, which seems difficult. Um, Westport's lucky. multiple relay areas, multiple options, several different ways where they can where the town folks in charge of this can make sure that there's an area open,
especially during those holidays when folks really want to get out there and and fish commercially. So hopefully that helps put it in perspective. The only other thing I guess would be um we usually do about 9,000 bushel a year. Westport gets five of that, more
than half. No other town even comes close to purchasing and receiving the amount of relay cohogs that Westport does. That's a good thing. Um but um it would be hard for me as the as the manager of this program to put 5,000
bushels in Westport ahead of Dennis that's getting 150 bushels, right? So it's like it has to be spaced out over the year. There's no way Westport gets everything before the July one deadline. It could never happen. It would be it would be at the expense of every other
participating town in the program. So, but it doesn't mean we can't get a bunch as many as we can get them in. Yeah. >> Could I ask one more question? >> Of course. I I'll happy to answer questions. >> So, we went from three vessels to one. >> Yes. >> We're working with Bruce. >> Yes.
>> Is the permitting process for another vessel or two or three to get into that difficult or >> No, not at all. In fact, you don't even need Bruce doesn't have a contaminated relay permit. Bruce is fishing on the
municipalities permit. >> I issue a contaminated relay permit to the municipality of Westport and it lists Bruce as a harvester. If any if any other vessel >> wants to get involved in relay, I can add them to the permit for Westport and
then they can harvest as long as they play by all the rules. >> Right. >> Yes. I'm just curious because it may be worth our while to try and >> try and recruit a vessel or two. >> Yep. We're always on the lookout. I have um a couple of hydraulic dredgers out of New Bedford that have
recently been displaced because of some classification decisions. I tried to convince them to get involved. A little bit smaller vessels than Bruce's. They don't they're not interested. It's just a lot of heavy lifting, you know, and that's not the way they want to
fish. Um, I do have one other vessel from down Cape that contacted me over the winter. I've been working with him, this captain. He has gone so far as to spend time down on the Taon River walking the docks looking for potential
dockage. Um, he thinks he might have an inn in one spot. Um, but again, it's expensive. He said it's like three times his normal dock fee for wherever he is down Cape. So, um we're not sure if he's going to if he's going to enter the
fishery. He has shown much interest. He had even made modifications to his gear and his vessel. I'm I'm hoping to hear something within the next week or two. And it would be great to pick up a second boat. even if it was just for a month, we could bang
out a whole bunch of the smaller orders and maybe Bruce could concentrate on Westport. Um, I do happen to know that Bruce likes to fish for Westport because he gets paid in a very timely manner, which sometimes isn't always the case with other municipalities. So, if Bruce is left unchecked, he would be fishing
for Westport every day. Uh, but there's other towns that need to need to be taken care of. So, >> hey Rick, if I could just shed a little bit more light on this. Um, I reached out to the Manton Foundation. Those are the folks that give us the money that make this happen. And I asked for some
clarification on the dos and don'ts as far as what we can and cannot do with the $100,000 a year that we get. The reason I did was I didn't want to make a misstep. And let me just read to you what they said. This was from the 13th of April.
Uh it said as stated here the grant purposes is for shellfish propagation efforts quote unquote. We do not have any more specific documentation defining how those effort efforts could be carried out. So it is just about
propagation. My thinking is if we are doing something hand-to-mouth and we're not allowing these shellfish to propagate, then we could be in violation of the grant parameters, if you will. So, that's why
I reached out to Matt to talk about this in the beginning. Uh we don't want to do anything to upset the applecock with those folks. They've been very good to us. uh without them this relay this propagation does not
happen and so I think it's it's in our best interest everyone's best interest if propagation comes first and then harvest comes second one thing I think you should bear in mind is that even with this delay for the propagation side of
things allowing them to spat you're not being denied a single cohawk it's just being delayed a little bit so these guys can spat out so that we can live up to the requirements of the foundation money and B it's for everyone's best interest
quite honestly. So um just want you to know that's those are their words not mine. >> Okay. Thank you. I don't want to open it up for questions or comments. Two things. Um, I think this makes it perfectly evident that we have to have
the full court press on between now and July to get as many animals in the water as we can and get them settled in the mud. And we all know what that involves. We have weather, we have vessels, we have crew issues, we have all kinds of issues, but
this can't be done with three people every five days a week. So, just bear that in mind. Having said that, if anyone has any comment or questions, it's open now. Um I don't want to keep Matt here all night. He has a life. Um >> I'm in town. I'm I'm here to answer
questions. Fire away. >> But um if you do have a question or a comment, you have to go to the microphone. We want to make sure that it's recorded and that um it's documented. So whoever wants to speak
to the microphone. If not, we will move on to the next agenda item. >> Yeah. How you doing? Uh yeah, for Matt. So, I wanted to thank you for moving it to July. >> You guys, you know that that's makes a big difference to July 1st
and um yeah, that's it. >> Thanks. >> Okay. >> All right. Anyone else? Seeing none, having not had that conversation, there's no need or desire for um vote. There's nothing really to vote on. It was just anformational
session. We'll move on to um a couple of discussions here. One is and I'm going to turn this over to Ron because he this was Ron's >> mention uh discussion of seasonally closed areas in BB3 and BB4. Did you
have something specific, Ron? You want to mention on that? >> Well, I wanted to go over the maps, but we can't see them on here. There's There's a few new areas being I was just wondering what they were do. I noticed that nowadays you're blocking
out the uh blocking out some of the boating area some of the marina marinas >> marines >> but there's like a little tiny area in the east branch that's blocked out but it's it's not a marina uh a marine
>> I could double check with the area biologist Terry O'Neal >> but it could also simply be a water quality issue if we have historically >> it looks like it's at the bottom of Abed >> a lot of Yeah. >> Yeah. That falls under the mooring >> exception and but it also
>> but it's not it's not it's not readed out >> but to what >> what Matt says that's one of the areas that we do take water samples when we go out with Terry. >> Okay. So >> yeah. So if if it's I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. If it's if
it's in a moing area and you're worried that it's not red. >> Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah. I don't >> moing areas don't mean there a lot of boats over there. >> So moring areas don't have to be prohibited. Just because there are more
boats doesn't necessarily mean that there's a public health threat or a pollution source. We look at it. We assess it. Um we have counts of those moing areas. Um if it is a problem and it should be closed um we have a
mechanism for towns that want to areas like that open to do that through extra patrol, extra enforcement, um documentation of Y valve checks. I mean, there's a whole mess of things towns can
opt to do to keep an area open, but I'm not sure of the exact area you're talking about. >> You know, it's a tiny area. I just wonder, >> you know, you've got divided the river up into a lot of different pockets. >> A lot of sub areas. That's right. Two growing areas are
>> more areas going to keep closing. Well, so um if it wasn't divided into many many sub areas, there'd be far more closures. >> The whole idea is to carve off what needs to be carved off and closed and leave the remaining open. I think you'll
find when you look at the rivers, >> the the rain a lot of rainfall areas in the uh the east branch, right? And they're sort of descending in volume like what triggers them. I think like maybe 75 up north, maybe 0.5, maybe 3 or 25, I forget.
>> Um, >> that's because the closer you get to the mouth, the cleaner it is. >> Yeah. >> If we didn't carve it up into sub areas >> and we left it all one huge area, that means the mouth of the river would be the same as just south of Hicks bridge, which is not as good water quality. It
would all be reduced and lowered. >> So, the multiple sub areas allows for greater access and greater shell fishing opportunity. >> So, I don't know if you guys have looked at the new maps online. >> No. And this must be you're talking about point out is that what you call it
the white flat that whole no this is a this is a small smaller area. Yeah. >> But again >> up the point >> lane. Okay. >> I didn't print it out. I thought we were going to be able to put it up on the screen,
>> but but Ron, just to to follow up on that, um, when we test, we test 35 without going out front, 35 spots in the river. And the spots that come back hot are usually, as you guys know better
than any of us do, at the end of at the mouth of a creek. And that is one of those areas that's at the confluence of a small creek running into So that's why a lot of times these areas, those little areas are carved out like Matt says, a
little tiny little spot on the map. >> Yeah, there's a lot more red marks now, but I realized like way up inside cabin's neck. >> Yep. >> Oh yeah, those are all that's all poor water quality >> from those creeks draining in. Absolutely. We'll put a little micro prohibited around the mouth of a creek
or say a storm drain coming off the road. That'll have to have a little micro prohibited around it. you know, like a 10 foot radius circle or don't get close to it or >> to that point. Um, you all know we're under the summer closures of the conditionally of the some of the
conditional areas. So, what I did do is I uh it's on the website and you know, I I I'm going to be honest with you. I can't hold everybody's hand and tell you what exactly the GPS coordinates are. If you need to know that, the map is on the
website. and go to the website and go to the lefth hand column and you'll see where the maps are. Those are the most current maps. In addition to when we get the closure notices or the open notices or the restriction notices from DMF, those are also point posted verbatim.
The actual document is online so you can look at it and see exactly where that line is. You all know where the lines are. You know, we all know up in, you know, BB3 and the West Branch, we all know what's closed in and north to Angeline Cove and further north from there. So, we all know what the summer
closures are as well as down around the marina down around Trips Marina across here. We all know what those rules are, but they're all there. So, um as well as the GPS coordinates, so you'll know exactly what those those are. So,
>> um >> um And and by the way, those maps, those they're interactive online, so you can This is conditionroved. >> That's relay area. I bet you're being
relay area. >> No. >> Oh, no. There's no If it's there, it's for a reason. Okay, Ron, we're um we're in a public meeting, so we have to keep it open to the public. Uh item number six,
discussion of the parameters of the opening of Point Bile, which is Whites Flat. Um I'd like to have a discussion on that um so that we can make a recommendation hopefully um to the shellfish constable so we can
take it to the board. Um if you do go on the DMF website that that whole area has been approved as fishable. Um so the decision has to be made what we want to do with it locally. As Matt said
earlier, it comes down to the local um establishment, for lack of a better term, to make that determination of when it's going to be closed, what's going to be used out there, when it's going to be open and take. So, um having said that, I'm going to open it up to discussion,
but I will say that the whole entire Whites Flat all the way all the way up to Tom's Point has been approved um as of the end of last week. As of this minute, it's you cannot fish it. Okay? Because we have not come to a
decision on whether when are we going to open it, what's out there. I will say this that uh Chris and the director and myself did see that last fall. Last fall, right? Last fall. >> September 30th. >> We seated that. Um how many we put out
there, C 220,000 >> we put >> no actually twothirds of it went in the west branch. The other one went over by north of Ram Island flat >> a lot. Okay. We put a lot of cohogs in there. 10 to 14s. >> Those are 10 to 14.
>> They were 10 to 14 uh millimeter shell size. So they're quite small to be honest with you. They have quite a growout period. We have not been I have not been had the opportunity to go out and sample it um to see what's grown,
what's survived, what come crab food or not. But we don't know what's out there for native. So, um, having said that, let's open it up for a comment. Again, this was a comment session, so feel free to come to the microphone.
Questions on White Flat. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Come on up, Paulie, please. >> Yeah. So, on White Flat, what we should do is just leave it alone like it has been for years. I was the last guy there seven years ago when Chris came with
Sawyer telling me that was going to close. So to make any changes there would just leave it like it is. Seven days a week, you know, six days for commercial uh recreational gets to go Sunday, right? So they can go seven days, but you're not going to get them
all there cuz it's at dead low tide. The water is so low there and the cohogs will go down at low tide and you would think you'd be getting nothing till the tide comes up and they come up. So the for recreational no way I say leave whites flat like it always has been you
know it's open for you know what I mean. >> So your recommendation is to keep it open seven days six >> because it's a big area and not everybody knows that area. Not everybody's going to dig there. You know, I've been there for 30 some years in Blitz Flat. That's where I started in
1990. So I, you know, to to to do any changes, we already got regulated too much as it is. We only can dig the relay two days a week. Really, Tuesday and Thursday and Saturday. Most people can work Monday through Friday. We're already regulated to the max. But to take whites flat and do anything else
with it. Bill suggested maybe no bull raing and tonganing. There's really not much tonging and bull raing there. Maybe at Cape Bile you could get in there and the tongs, but I won't tonk uh or bow rake that area. It's a hand raing only area. It's only so many hours a day you can get in there and sometimes if you
get up in the middle you'll be there for a long time cuz your boat will be out of the ground. So, um so yeah, that's it for Whites Flat, you know, just let it go like it is. You ain't never going to kill it. It's a lot of ground. It's hot as a concrete, too. Not everybody's going to dig there,
>> right? >> Yeah. And uh so just let it go like it is you know thanks. We don't have many areas in the river really you know like that you know there's many but just it's just you know I I can't see doing anything else with it was was like that for years and years and years right to
the the day I I could go back to the same place where they threw me out seven years ago. I was the only last one there. It' be something to go right when they the day Chris showed up at 10 o'clock in the morning said we're closing this now. I says oh yeah. So, >> okay.
>> And we lost a lot of that area, too. We used to be able to dig all of Judy's Island River Road all summer long. Now, that's unconditional, >> right? >> So, what's that bad water samples at now? That will that ever open now up there? >> I suppose if the it could if the if the
concentrations of feal call forms were to decrease. >> It's all based on water quality. And if there are elevated levels of fecal, there cannot be an upgrade unless >> is it birds that does most of it? >> We don't do source tracking. So I don't I can't tell you where those feals come
from. It could be septic. It could be birds, could be people walking dogs, deer, geese, you know, you name it. It could be anything. >> Just Paul Paul, just so you understand that that area up there, in fact, all the areas in the river, the river is is tested at a minimum the whole river five
times a year. Yeah. Yeah. And then certain areas we do after, as you know, after the point 2. >> Yeah, I know. You told me last week it closed for the rest of the summer. But >> and the area you're talking about, just again for clarification, pretty much um is from
the stone pier by the shack south almost down to the green nun when you make the turn and come in the commercial dock. >> Uhhuh. >> Right there. Everything west of that. Just for clarification, that's what will be the that's the area we're talking about right now. All the way around to Townsville.
>> Yeah. All right. Yeah, I know. No. Okay. Y Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks, Paulie. Anyone else have comment? Anyone of the board thoughts? >> I don't know. I kind of agree with those guys,
Michael. Yeah, I kind of agree with those guys. We cut back on the oysters this year. And uh there's going to be no relay, only one relay opening this year. So my thoughts are with go with my pol with Paulie. But
maybe uh restrict bull raking and and that that's about it. >> What about let me throw this question out. What about days? um days from your perspective. Um Ron, what would you suggest as um
>> Well, at first I thought maybe just have it open three days a week, the same days as the relay areas, but now listening to Paul and thinking about all the restrictions they've had lately. I don't know. That's my thoughts on it. Just
leave it open six days a week. >> Okay. >> Can I ask a question of these guys? I would have thought more guys would have stepped up and had something to say. Um, that's fine. Is there anybody here that objects to handbrake only?
>> He said it's shallow. So your bing time will be the peak high tide that be about it. >> And that's and that's rock hard ground to bull r you can almost stay the boat till high tide there.
>> So nobody would object to a prohibition on bull rigs in that area. >> Nope. >> And rigs. >> And rigs only. Y know, don't you need to take and get an area where you guys are going to take and do the propagation as far as the um the seeding goes and stuff
like that to really set a good area to keep doing it in the same spots all the time or you just >> we're still working on that, right? We're just that's >> okay. >> Does it say we have a master plan with seed? and we don't really but >> and I will >> we're listening you know
>> just just to to to say what the director to confirm and and support what the director is saying when we get to that point there going to be areas are going to be closed in the river I mean if you want propagation you want cohogs we're going to have to close areas to raise those cohogs so we're going to be I mean that's all part of the game so we're
going to have to lean on you guys to help us keep an eye on them or otherwise we're going to going to be out of business all of us are going to be out of business so but that's Like the director said, that's down the road. We'll worry about that one when we get close to it. We have a lot of work to do
to get there. >> So, Matt, can I ask you a question about the eelgrass? I've heard I guess it was Terry that was telling this. He said, you know, the eelgrass issue is a hot button item at DMF. Is that true? >> Very much so. there is tremendous effort
to protect any and all existing eel grass and enhance it where possible. So um uh anything that could be done to prevent damage to eel grass from say bull ranks would be definitely supported
by DMF and I'm not the eelgrass um person but I can easily make that statement. Yes. >> Any of you guys object to that? Nobody wants to dig in eel grass. >> It's tough digging. >> I I know. I just want to put it out there. >> A family person will go because he can
tread water and he gets the big ones in eel grass, but not all of them. Some are afraid of the eraph. >> We have seen in other towns uh on cake commercial interests
asking to be able to dig with bull rigs and grass. So, it's not unheard of, but I think most people don't want to do that. Nobody wants to plug their wheels. >> It's even better and faster. >> Spend more time cleaning the ring. >> Thing is,
>> you must have it where you have traditional illgrass areas that come every year, but it also runs in cycles. So, you'll have times where it's not there. You don't want to be planting those areas. Then all of a sudden, a couple years from then have it all eerrass, you know. So, you might want to
watch out for that. Well, like like we know we're still working that out, right? I >> mean, we've been working I don't know if you know this, we've been working with UMass um Dartmouth on a whole illass study. We have a study. We have maps and whatnot. I mean, that and that's a changing environment that can change
from year to year. If I had the power to predict that, I'd be a really wealthy guy, but I don't and I'm not. So, but going to your point, Matt, maybe we can just for discussion. Um, this is eelgrass. We're talking about bull
raking. Are there any towns who prohibit teeth on scolop dredges >> because of eelgrath? >> Yes. >> Yes. And I can't I can't speak to which ones, but I know that towns have the authority to do that and towns do that.
Yes. Absolutely. >> They just use like the pressure plate trees, right? The hand dredge they call it. >> Yeah. I mean rather than have them dig in it, the blade will just >> y >> the business end of the dredge would just bounce off the bottom. Okay.
>> Okay. Any other comments on that? >> Okay. Thank we want to thank you for your input um you know for further discussion. We'll get this squared away. You'll be the first to know what um happens and what goes to select board for their weigh in on this whole issue.
But bear in mind um and we're going to get this out on the website that Whites Flat is not open at this point in time. Okay? And we're going to expedite that to help you guys out as much as we can. Okay? That's all I have on the agenda. Um any other items unanticipated within
the last 48 hours we can bring forward. >> Mr. Chairman >> sir, >> should we make a motion to accept no bull rakes in Whites Flat now before we decide when to open it? So
that's one hurdle that we don't have to deal with when you guys decide and you can just put it on the um voicemail or wherever and the motion and regulation has already been decided
because should you decide to open that in 3 weeks we may have to have an emergency meeting to make sure we can pass a new rule so that we don't bull rake there. So, should we now to make it easier and expedite it for the fishermen, should we now make a motion
to prohibit bull rigs in that whites flat area? >> I would think that's a great idea. Do we have a motion? >> I'll make the motion if you would like. I'd like to make a motion that we
keep whites flat harvest the same as it has always been with six days commercial, one day with a recreational, but to prohibit bull raking during the commercial harvesting of that area to protect the eelgrass and
I'll just say that I think protecting the eel grass is a big step in getting base go-ops back. I feel personally, it's not part of the motion, but I feel personally that we're lacking base scops because we're lacking eel grass.
But my motion stands. The motion is to accept the whites flat harvest under the same conditions it always has been and prohibit bull raking. >> Do I have a second? >> I second it. >> Okay, discussion.
>> So, as it sits right now, it's hand ra. I think that's the way to go. You can't bull rake there anyway. >> Yeah, there's no water. >> So, we're not really I mean, we're actually just trying to help mother nature >> for the purposes of discussion. Um,
we're going back and forth. Do we want the days in that motion or do we just want to address the bull raking issue in that motion? >> What are you talking about? >> So, can we address uh when we're opening it? >> Well, we we we can do that locally.
motion in the motion. I I put in the motion to keep the harvesting at the same that it is now. I think with Matt's right >> knew about the how we're going to harvest and through spawning seasons we're taking more and more and more from them, >> right? >> Yep. >> I think that we got to leave it so that
they can harvest like Paul says six days a week. Use a hand rake. It's tough digging anyway. >> Kill another bird with a stone and decide on a date to open it. Um, I would >> separate motion.
>> That would have to be a separate motion, but we still have to do some work over there. Um, we have to see what's in there. We have to see what's in there for for seed. >> Um, we still have some work to do over there. So, I mean, we certainly can open
it. Um, but for purposes of discussion, I would rather get out there and see what's there because we may have to break that up a little bit over there, too. You know, around the corner, we don't know what's up there. >> Um, >> yeah, it's a tremendous area.
>> Yeah, it's a huge area. Correct. >> Talking half the West Branch. >> So, >> so this is still discussion. >> Yes, absolutely. The motion has been seconded and now discussion on the motion. >> Okay. three um
three points I'd like to put across. Um I'm glad you all agree with the bull rank bull rank prohibition. I think that's a good move. I think I'm glad you're very happy with the staying out of the eelgrass side of things. I'm going to add one more comment on this. I
think this should start as a pilot program. And by that what I mean is we go x amount of months, weeks, whatever that time is, and then we stop and reassess. If everything is going fine at that point, we continue. But I think
just opening this forever could lead to a mistake. I can't tell you what I think that mistake is. Overh harvesting, destruction of veg grass, whatever. It's my feeling that whatever we agree on here should start as a pilot program
at first for everyone's protection. That's just a comment. Chief, >> thank you. Director Kevin, you had a question. >> A comment of something. Um, >> uh, Kevin Carter, what is the reluctance with the 400 residential shellfish
people? This is such a big area. We're going to let residents in one day. >> No, no, no, no. They're allowed to fish. >> They're allowed seven days. >> Seven days. They cannot fish Sunday. >> Okay. Okay, that's what it is. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you for clar residential is
7 days. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other discussion on Skip's motion? >> Hearing none, I'll like to take a vote. All in favor of Skip's motion. >> I >> that includes the day, right? Days.
>> That includes the day. Skip's motion as presented to the board, I mean to the panel here, the meeting. Um, all in favor? >> I oppose. I would like to make one caveat though that um the director makes
a good point about um a pilot program and that can certainly be decided um as we go forward. We can make that motion when we decide to open it. When we decide that you guys come and say, "Hey, look, we've done our research and we think that we can open it next week." We
could then at that point in the motion to open it, we can motion it to be a pilot program for 60,90 120 whatever it is 3, four, five, six months with re-evaluation steps along the way.
>> I think that that's a good point, Skip, and that would give us time to come up with the parameters and the numbers and the data we need. >> You can start your pilot program out with a 30-day trial and then you can say everything looks good. Let's go 60 more days. is you can at the end of 60 days you can try look again and then you can
say 60 days still no problems go 90 more. So I think it gives you time to look at it >> do it right >> assess it take all your concerns into consideration before we make that motion because right now we don't really know. >> Well you know to me skip it's it's just
a protective measure. >> Yeah I think it makes a lot of sense >> because if we don't do that bill we could get into a hornets nest. We could we could not that these guys are won't work with us cuz they will if we were to say hey look this is our problem and this is can you help us they're part of
the solution they're not part of the problem and I think as long as we're treating them as part of the solution and not part of the problem they're with us you know not against us and we're all >> we're all trying we're all trying to keep the health of the river viable
enough for everyone to benefit from it and I think That's everybody's goal. >> I I I think everybody agrees, Skip. It's was well said well articulated and the point being is that um you know this is
everybody's river. We want to keep it open. We want to keep it active and we but we want to also keep it healthy and productive, >> right? And if we don't take steps in meetings like this and have discussions, that's why everybody goes out and um the director puts it out, you know,
on social media because we need your input. We can't. We're just not, >> you know. >> I think Matt's information I think Matt's information about other municipalities and the restrictions and the small harvest areas they have should
almost scare us straight, you know, cuz we don't want to be in that position where we've ruined this area and we've ruined that area. We and we're already closing in on fecal caulifform. I mean, so we've got to do whatever we can to keep the good areas good. Matt, are you
familiar with the the issue in Bourne that one Kohhaga was down there digging in eel grass and the neighbors could you tell the guys about that? >> Uh well that's sort of the one I was alluding to before that someone wanted to be
apparently has claims they have been digging in eelgrass with the bull rake for decades. And um I believe this person is aquaculturist and a wild co wild harvest co and so for the months
that they're not growing or selling off the farm they are digging in and around eel grass which blows my mind I've accidentally hit grass I don't care if it's with a hand rake or a bull rake it's just awful um so yeah the um the
the municipality of born was looking for ways to prevent that from happening I don't know if they've been successful putting that in writing as as a condition of his permit yet, but I think
um that's probably where it's headed. And again, I would state that not only DMF, but anybody involved in the health of marine sciences would do would support everything they could to protect the grass. Um and there'll be there'll be little very little sympathy or
support for harvest techniques that even risk damaging the grass. Okay. Um, thank you. Thank you, Matt. Um, just before we The next item of course is to come up with the next meeting date. But before we get to that and before I forget, I want to thank
Matt for coming out tonight, coming out on his own time to be here with us to explain and answer questions. We really appreciate and another thing that uh I think we can say collectively here is we appreciate the the work that you guys do over at DMF um and the cooperative
spirit we have. every question that's asked, every call that's is answered. Um, and many times in person. Um, so I to see that level coming from a municipal government background and see that level of cooperation, it's impressive. So I want to thank you on
behalf of everybody in the room. >> Welcome and happy to help. And don't forget, I'm also a Westport res. >> Okay, next meeting. Um I think kind of >> ordering something up since we might be getting some cohogs before July 1st. We want to make a decision on where we're going to put them.
>> That would be half moon. >> Got to be half moon. >> So that area can be closed in anticipation of planting at half moon. >> Yes. We want half moon so it'll open for the fall and winter. >> Exactly. >> Yep.
>> So we got to plug that as quick as we can basically. Right. We'll see what happens. >> You're going to hold off on closing it until you're actually going to plan it though, aren't you? Or >> Yeah. I mean, until we start putting pogs in there. There's no Is anybody working there anymore?
>> We will if we get close. >> We'll have no choice. >> No, it's still bottom line is still open. >> Okay. >> And then >> when we decide to get this going, we'll put buoys out. We'll make notifications and we'll notify DMF and we'll be good to go. >> Clean it up. So, if you only get like
one week's worth of cohawks, it's probably not worth putting them there. Probably should put them in. >> That's a decision we got to make at that point in time. >> Well, where else would >> Where would it be worth putting them? >> Ram Island. >> That's already got
how many bushels? >> Where' you say, Ron? >> Ram Island. >> Ram Island's got 600 in there. >> Got 875. >> 875. in Ram Island. That's one of our cards we're holding.
>> I know. So, if you get like a 100 more bushels, why don't you just put them in Ram Island? That's >> Well, the question is, do you want to harvest them first and then >> Well, that that's a possibility. If you want to hold Ram Island for December,
>> one of the issues, as we all know, is Ram Island's a tough It's hard bottom. It's harder bottom, I should say. It's tough to get into you. It's a half It's not a place. We all know the value of half moon. We all know, you know, historically the value of the
>> I was just saying if we put 100 bushels in there is not to me it's not worth it. >> Put them in. >> Well, I would suggest that we Let's see how we go. Bruce is Bruce is as Matt said, Bruce is up and running. >> That if we did Ram Island with those guys
>> the initial That would be the Christmas cohogs, >> right? >> Exactly. Okay. What we're talking about that that's a possibility. Sure. >> Okay. Having said that, does anyone want to make a >> motion to adjourn?
>> Well, let's uh talk about a meeting first before we go any further. >> Oh, Chief, we can talk about Shell stock for just a sec. >> Yep. >> So, Shelltock's going on this year. Takes a lot of bodies to make that happen. Uh the last year that we did it, um we
netted around $31,000 and change. >> Uh if we don't have the help to do it, we're not going to generate as much money. >> Um a lot of the guys that were there the last time around are not there now. So I'm just throwing it out to you guys.
Anybody want to volunteer for Shelltock? >> I'll be there. >> Frank and Paulie. >> This is August August 15th. >> Okay. Yeah, I donate too every year, but last year we didn't because they there was something with a tag or something, wasn't it? They didn't take any from diggers.
>> Yeah, >> that's what you wanted, didn't you? Go. >> Yeah, I go I I kind of I run the uh RA and uh last year they were afraid if somebody got sick and we didn't have go through the proper channels of getting the tags from a distributor.
So we we ended up buying >> we ended up buying all the shellfish. >> I did ask Kerrion if you would donate. >> I did I did say donate. >> I hope it wasn't lost in translation. Kerrion if you're watching.
>> And just to be clear, even a donation has to go through a primary dealer. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Anything at that stock has to go through a dealer. money changes in or not for trace back purposes has to go through >> but we can talk about that. >> So it has to go through the dealer. It
has to be tagged. It has to be processed just just like every other transaction. >> It's easy. >> Even if money didn't change hands, somebody has to do the paperwork tags. >> It's a transaction. >> Okay. >> So Ronnie, you got Paulie and Frank. >> They're committed. >> Yeah. It's only one day. >> Yeah.
>> Well, last year when John, when you guys first start, you had a lot of help. Yeah, we did. But >> well, we have never really had a lot of help. >> We've begged, borrowed. We've begged and borrowed. Yeah. You know, back back in the beginning, we had, you know, four or five guys. But one of the one
interesting thing to note to what uh Bill said about Shelltock is um >> this off season, we were able to get Shelltock as a 501c3, which is nonprofit status. before we were operating under
the town's umbrella. So all of the proceeds had to go to the propagation fund. Now being a 501c3, we can take the money and put, you know, if we make 30 grand again this year, we can say to Bill,
we're going to give you 20 grand and we're going to use 10,000 for, you know, the hatchery or other. It's all going to go towards shellfish, but it's other things for the river. So, it's actually a good thing. We're able to raise the
money and put it in to better use for the river. So, I think that we're all the whole thing is kind of maturing a little bit and hopefully it'll benefit the river. That's really what the drive is. It's >> all good. >> It's all good.
>> Okay. Everybody have their phones out? Any idea? I mean this let's just do this as a placeholder. So >> okay >> um because this is subject to change on a number of issues. So >> we have what's today? Today >> the 6th
>> Memorial Day is fairly early. You want to try to do the week after Memorial Day? Memorial Day is the 20 >> the 3rd >> 5th this year. So, >> should we say the third like Chris?
>> Did you say the third? Somebody? >> Yeah, Chris suggested June. >> Wednesday night. Okay. For >> Wednesdays work better for me. >> The third. >> The third. >> June 3rd. >> 63. >> Okay. >> 26.
>> It's 63 tenative meeting at 17:30 hours. Okay. I'll entertain a motion. Um, >> Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to adjurnn. Do I hear a second? >> A second. >> Okay. So moved. Let's have a vote. Unanimous. Thank you. >> Thank you guys for coming. Appreciate
it. Matt, thanks again.