well you know government roughly I get it okay okay since it's roughly 6:30 I'm going to start the Zoning for appeal meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the for which it stands nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all first up I uh um I'm going to as we have M Janice day thank you for uh for volunteering to be part of our board you r that uh that makes a full comp and it's a good thing that uh that you you you did apply for it because you can see we just have enough members today to uh to hold this hearing so thank you Janice and it's looking forward to working with you um got put your on under master chapter 38 section 20f this meeting is being recorded the first hearing is 672 River Road applicant Lucille Snider for a special permit to conduct a two-story garage that will include a detached one-bedroom accessory apartment containing no more than 900 sare ft is allowed by zon VW section 954 subject property is located at 672 River Road Westport Mass and is shown on the sensor map 89 lot 134a so the way it's going to work I'm going to have the petitioner come up and provide information he or she is thinks is appropriate the board will then ask questions once the board has concluded asking questions then I'll open it up to the public so uh and if you and if you do want to speak uh you always have to provide your name and address so Sean okay uh good good evening uh Sean leech for Northeast Engineers for the applicant Lucy Snider uh this had this particular lot is located on River Road over towards the crossroad area part of River Road can I yeah couple more administrative things I play okay um I mean these are the vot these are the members that are voting but they are Jeremy coutino Ray Elias myself Raj Menard George uh stas and uh and Janice St and also um this will require four out of five votes and let me just read you the reason why we are here a letter from The Zing enforcement officer Ralph Souza after review of the building permit application to construct an 874 ft garage with a 900t detached accessory apartment the application is hereby denied as per the Westbard zoning bylaw at 954 the zoning board of appeals May issue a special permit authorizing the installation use of the detached accessory Department in a detached structure on a loot containing a single family dwelling provided the following conditions are met see attached uh signed Ralph Suza Building Commissioner and Zoning enforc so that's the reason why what prompted this petition okay I'll continue now you're on okay I'll continue thank you uh so the applicant uh this particular lot had a house on it originally uh that belongs to the family of the applicant and uh it was knocked down it had several problems not one of the major was his best uh so it had to basically be knocked out so miss Sider was building a single family home here uh which is cited right here on the lot this particular house isded almost in the same location the lighter line you see here is where the original house was there's an existing driveway already coming down into here there's an existing septic system the plane you see before you uh is a requirement by the Board of Health to return the what was a traditional septic system to denitrification and the septic system was size for a five-bedroom house and that's what Miss Snider is planning to use right now teaching to but she's putting a treatment system in for both structures located right here the garage that we're talking about is this structure right here the closest it is the property line is 86 ft so we need all Zing setbacks but well do you show that on any P any document that we have all the setbacks do you have this plane in front of you I do it should be on I don't see them we can provide that if it's not on the plan this is the second plan you have I have this yes this is the only one that shows any any um any Dimensions whatsoever we can provide this plan to you this is a stamp the stamp plan I don't know if that's the original or revised plan but this shows offsets uh To Each corner of the particular building I can bring closer if You' like it may not show on the plan you have uh because it is just for the setic plan but the building itself is close to set back is 86 ft uh that would be from the S it's 132 ft from m road we don't have any of those lines I don't anyway does anybody else it may be a different plan uh but what you planning on doing is what you see here this is a photographic image with the single family house and the garage with the in-law apartment above it I don't know if you have this yes okay uh this basically just talk about the garage and the compartment this is what the building looks like these are the dimensions of the building building meets the dimensions requirement for the detach single uh detach uh family apartment uh according to this is what it looks like kind of like a salx type uh you call it okay basically these are the first so back what's the height good question is lower 22t 6 in I see it uh this plan shows the layout of the bottom and obviously the apartment obviously the garage in the bottom and apartment in the top uh we this apartment knee walls on each side and B is located in the center with Windows and there's a up and down stairs to get the apartment in the center right off the car apartment so the the structure itself and the S itself meet all the requirements and the requirements for the detach inlog uh structure uh this last one showed you the erress D out of the building itself okay now now can you stay on that okay um no this one the one with that shows the cars yeah okay um so the second floor is is is obviously on the right there um which shows a bedroom a bathroom and whatever a sitting room they you call it an office SL La yeah M Miss Snider is an architect and she does she has her client meetings in the building itself uh um and included in this then is an area on the first floor yes which would be the kitchen which isn't really marked but I assume that's what that is around the the table yes that's correct and when you included the the square footage for the accessory Department what did you include so it's this section here which is um no oh okay um yeah if you looking at the LOF part this is storage on like the out the outside I'll call it the outside is this is the low roof this is storage here storage here is this section here which is approximately 20 by 14 and2 so 280 will call 290 Square ft and then you have the same side approximately just below now you have to include the bath and you have to include that office flock because that all could be considered part of the accessory department when you say office you mean you talking all all the all the second floor is is is essentially part of you can actually sit here yeah you can sit her yeah you can see go ahead Luc go ahead you're you're the architect yes arit and name address Lucy Snider 672 River Road okay thank you um I'm just trying to get a feel for you see we have a 900 foot um maximum requirement for an accessory department and that and in this case we have to figure out exactly what that includes and if it is and if it is accessible to um you know to the bedroom or to the ever then it's really part of the now we we don't include stairs and walls and things like that but if it's but if it's accessible to somebody who's living there then it's part of their apartment okay so you're correct the 900 square ft calculates the what's labeled the studio which is the lower level kitchen dining living I included the stair the bedroom the bathroom and the office Loft so that's all 900 ft and that's the only like conditioned space heated and the garage stor is not heated the storage area is not heated no okay so you're saying um all of this is included yep and essentially all of the upstairs with the exception of the storage and the stairs no yes you including the area that's called the office SL Loft yes it's about 550 ft doing quick math in my head on this section right here that you're talking about okay yeah so that these you know 350 plus or minus Square ft for remainder which on the bottom yeah I think it's exactly for one is 475 and one's 425 okay and that's in the building perit application those numbers what is the um uh the long yeah that whole thing is that a deck no that's it's because of the slant of the roof it's like a knee wall you're going to have a knee wall in here and that's just going to be behind going to the eve of the building itself like it's going to there's going to be a wall that stops here how how tall is that wall that new wall if you look at the page g21 you should have a section g21 okay I think I see it here it's kind of tiny but 6 6 foot 6' five on the in the Loft and in the bedroom it's 5 ft well there storage you be the storage space here talking I'm talking about the knee wall she's talking the knee wall here the the apartment is from here to here or the living space so this is storage behind okay which side is the piece that you just pointed out a few minutes ago uh is it on the right hand side or the left hand side it's on the right hand side there yeah where he's pointing now yep so that's that's the one that's unfinished 6 and 1/2 ft high that is that what I'm seeing here it's 5'8 in the bottom left drawing sorry it's so small on this um and 6' five in the Loft office okay 5 fo8 where are you seeing that the bottom left drawing it's on the right side of the second floor okay the 5/8's on that side but the but the taller one what what is the um the one that's so hard to read this it looks like it's 7 fo3 maybe what is that that's um showing interior elevation that's that's in the bedroom there's a closet Flo the bedroom okay so the knee wall what he refers to as knee wall is 5 foot something yes it encloses you know the storage F behind it encloses Department right have we ever done it two story there's an existing uh building there now correct you're going to be we we dem and we got the building permit for the house and we started construction so we have the foundation and for the house we're just this is a separate we filed two building permit applications one for the house and one for the garage so we we haven't done anything in the garage area yet we're waiting to hopefully get approval what are you doing with the house sorry what are you doing with the house is a house it's a um 2800 square foot four bedroom house um to be constructed new yep new construction FR but there's a house there now isn't there no they knocked down the house I knocked down the house in March what's confusing me is we have this one 672 and we have 684 I think I have something like that uh and one of them so yours is the one that has no building right now just the Foundation correct dirt piled up against the foundation correct and that Foundation is for the house yes okay and there you don't have a foundation yet for this garage correct but you have a building permit for the garage no youi the building permit they can't do that because it's here that's why they're here do you have a u a letter from the health department with An approved septic I that the septic system wasn't that old and was still functioning but they require dation package I just gave did yeah right here syst is based on five bedrooms FL in the house and one I remember it being in front of the pretty big house I don't know how many fo was okay Sean this is this is the plan that you said has all the setbacks from the property line those numbers on this because so we can provide that and I can read off the numbers if oh yeah we got numbers on it okay I don't know why I don't know why the doesn't have numbers on I'm not sure okay I don't deny it but but it's well obviously well are you going to keep yeah 12 okay driveway is pretty much staying the same I mean in the same location you just drive you don't have one that shows the numbers do you no I you don't have a large one can that as our this one yeah and you mean physically that one that size give you physically this one so that we can see the problem with doing 11 by 17 is when you're on 24 you don't really be able to read the numbers yeah okay I I I am going to read in the into the record uh this is a uh an email from uh Maria on zoning administrator uh to the Board of Health hi Matt please let me know if Lucille Schneider or Sean Lee have received approval from the Board of Health for a septic system that will accommodate the accessory Department in the new two story garage and this from uh bendo uh Health Department H yes it was approved tearing down existing residents of building new four bedroom house and one-bedroom garage using anting 5B Leach f with new septic tank and dite advantic system so that is one of the requirements for the uh uh for an accessory apartment is that we have an approved septic system so thank you is there um is the owner here or somebody theer owner that's what we had last time in our hearing was the architect was the owner now we have another one so the only thing sometimes how much how much did they have to pay the architect to do this J yeah can you get him to finally get some work done that was a problem our last architect it was so what we're going have to do after we get through with the with the particulars of the design is there are uh several uh requirements for accessory Apartments um uh that we will we will go through one by one to make sure that you know that you can comply with with all those requirements I mean so the the big things with the uh with the layout is making sure that in fact that it needs requirements of no more than one bedroom no more than one well a bathroom a kitchen and uh other living space and that what we really are concerned with is making sure that based on your layout it would not be easily converted to more than one bedroom because that that would violate by L it would be a whole different that would require a variance or some other some other aspect so um I mean that's you know that's you know but you do meet the the 900 square foot um and you do have uh a septic system which is one of the requirements that we'll get into in a minute so um any other questions before you go through what or you which want to run through the uh a through J I don't know if you have a copy of this but pretty stct but rather than having me read them and then you answer you can just read them yourself and tell me how you're going to comply with uh which each of these requirements there you go 952 it's um detached accessory so you can just read it and then um tell me how you uh you are going to comply uh item well would be better off doing this okay you have any questions so this take me a minute or the architect one of the two yeah right trick question Sean is listed as presenting you're listed as presenting as presting I don't know I don't know what that means well I'm now what I'm sitting here I guess um so yeah my mother can you just read the item number one it item number one provide older homeowners with a means of obtaining rental income companionship security and services thereby enabling them to stay more comfortably in homes and neighborhoods they might otherwise be forced to leave uh my mother lives across the street and she's a single um woman and she very likely will need assistance in the future so this was family plan the uh B of G when the town voted this in was was to allow for uh healthare for elderly whatever but it also allowed for a rental income to allow you to stay in your house so it's it does have some latitude so we so you know in that aspect can you just describe how you plan on using the accessory apartment uh yes so my sister lives in Nashville and um she has a family um and they come up for the summer so she and her children are going to stay with me in the house and in the apartment when they come in the Summers and then I plan to use portion of it as my office um so yeah that's that's the part of it was I live across the street from my mom so it's all like you know the family will all be together it's a little scary when she said her mom is older cuz her mom is not that much older than some of some of us sitting here older than me okay um develop housing units in single family neighborhoods that are appropriate for households at a variety of stages in their lifestyle cycle you're read the right it's 9.52 954 yeah 954 954 she accessory Department well she you got detached accessory Department 9.5.2 95.4 this is the page that you yes I think you got the wrong version here get I got the other one no that's okay I mean it says the same I believe it's the same thing so we just get to to B okay because we a was like a m covered all u b the detached accessory apartment will be a complete separate housekeeping unit containing a kitchen living room a bathroom and a maximum of one bedroom only one accessory apartment may be created within a single family dwelling or house lot I uh fit all the requirements one of the things that uh that we generally require as a deep restriction that uh that uh for because you're going to also see um I think on the next one is that the owner has to live in either the accessory apartment or the house and we generally require de restriction saying that um that in fact the owner is going to live in one of those and in fact it's only going to be one bedroom and the reason why we do that is because once we make a decision that allows for this accessory apartment if 5 years from now you sell the property the restriction has to go with the property so that the new owner understands that they have to live there one of the other and that they can't convert it into two bedrooms because it's restricted to one bedro so that's so so do you have an issue with that no okay good um detached accessory apartment shall be occupied by no more than two persons yeah can you speak up into the microphone because detached accessory Apartments shall be occupied by no more than two persons that's correct okay uh the owners of owner of the property in which the detached accessory apartment is created must occupy at least one of the dwelling units the gross floor area of so just say yes yes I'm slow at okay yes I um will occupy the house off street parking spaces shall meet the do you have enough off street parking to to allow for not only you but if you were to rent out that apartment do you have enough parking space to accommodate your house and the accessor yes there's two inside the building there's several outside the building uh you could fit six cars here without a problem and they wouldn't adult 36 cars you know on a regular basis okay yep any new construction shall be in accordance with current height and setback requirements for the district in which it is located the plans show that that's correct uh the septic system must meet the requirements of the Westport Board of Health and the state sanitary Cod that has been uh approved any property that has been granted a special permit for dete accessory apartment shall not be further divided unless all zoning requirements can be met for the district in which it is located okay so what what that what that technically means is I don't know how how big your property actually is 113,000 ft right so you what that says is you can't subdivide unless the subdividing would still um meet the requirements of all zoning requirements in other words 60,000 foot with front you know all of the all of the requirements for for subd okay what's the frontage of this property the frontage of this property that's inter question uh5 on River Road but B Point Lane which is a private way it has uh 388 okay and so the reason that we can't consider this a duplexes because they're not attached correct is that correct correct because they would meet the uh requirement for duplex for for a duplex if it weren't for the fact that they're not connected correct okay sorry where were we dived I do not it will not be further divided not dividing the lot so that that would be part of the deed restriction I'm assuming that you say you can't further subdivide the lot until you come back here and ask to further subdivide the lot no it can never be yeah you you could you could but you have to come back to this board back to yeah to do that and and that only assumed then that it wouldn't meet the zoning requirements for and that's the reason why you have to come out correct prior to approval of a special permit for a detached accessory apartment the board shall make the following findings the detach accessory apartment will not impair the Integrity or character of the neighborhood in which it is located the detached accessory apartment shall not be detrimental to the abing properties so that's just something that that we we look at your design and say you know is it reasonable okay and in order to encourage the development of housing units for disabled individuals and persons with limited Mobility the zoning board may allow reasonable deviation from the dimensional requirements where necessary to install features that facilitate access and Mobility you're not you're not asking for that anyway you're you're you're within the 900 sare ft that provision just allowed us to allow a little bit more room if uh there was reason you know due to uh you need to put an elevator in yes right you know wider doors for for Wheelchairs and you know that mobility and that accessibility but now where will you be meeting with clients on the first floor or the second floor yeah thinking probably in the stud in the first floor and then my office will be upstairs where I have my computer and my but start meeting with clients so be on the first floor do you have to are they requiring you to make that uh handicap accessible 8 cuz you have customers you'd have people coming in well it's on the first floor and I have a wider than a so double door it's going to be anyway it is anyway yeah I didn't design I'm guessing they they might they might require that I'm not sure you know with the commercial aspect of it I also have an office in town so this is yeah this is like work from home okay so U you met the G the overall requirements still be major issues now that knee wall area is storage you said and is it clearly spelled out that that's going to be non-heated so that is that's not part of the calculation you made right for live livable area right they'll be like mechanic like duct work to service the livable but there's no access behind that yeah there's no but it'll be there and there won't be any finished floor or walk right it it couldn't it couldn't simply take out a wall and it be part of a living space any other questions the board other questions anybody in the audience none uh there's no questions I'll make a motion to close the hearing I'll second that all in favor say I I iOS no all that means is that uh that we will we will render a decision we won't take any information from the uh you know from the applicant unless we ask for it if if it's clarification we we can ask it but other than that it's just a deliberation well I mean theyve they certainly met all the requirements uh the septic systems approved square footage is right they make the requirements for one bedroom bathroom kitchen right the only uh thing that I think would have would potentially have been in question as as happens with most buildings like this we question whether you could easily make it a two-bedroom or a three bedroom or whatever and uh I think that's satisfied here somebody any comments before well I it it's exactly 900 the way 475 425 so she made that and she went down the list one thing we we are going to need a copy of you want me to date that and sign that so you that's she's going to have to that's the only one that actually shows on the set PS okay cuz I can give you the full size one because it's much easier to read no you want this small because um I have to give them to Ralph so and I have to keep them in the file stage3 I can email I can email that to you so I dated it today 62024 uh okay okay so not hearing any U any major difficulties with this I'll make a motion that we uh we Grant the petition for a um of Luc of Lucille Schneider for a special permit to construct a two-story garage that will include a detached one-bedroom accessory apartment containing no more than 900 square ft as allow only fire L section 954 subers property located at 672 Riv Road RB mass is shown as cess path 89 134a with the conditions that that the uh that the applicant sign a uh deed restriction that uh requires that the owner be uh uh reside in either the accessory department or the green house and that the accessory Department remains one bedroom is there something else that we usually put in there the um sub the subdivision conformance also uh noting that this is uh this uh granting of this is based on the uh the plans submitted uh if any substantial changes then would have to you have to re apply I'll second that any any discussion before we vote hearing none all in favor of granting the petition say I I I all oppos no it's unanimous there's a 20-day weight period you're not ready to build it anyway so you guys still going to build the house right yeah well like to start dating for it but yeah so good luck with it and uh thank you thank you when do you think you're going to be uh building stuff what do you mean building well you got the house to build then you got this accessory um well framing starts for the house in July so okay yeah and then um no so six months to oh when was it done you think yeah uh I'm asking for August but my contractor is not answering that question August of next year 14 months yeah and he's still not no he don't think get done 14 months doesn't know you can on okay yes good luck all right thank you thank you okay the second here is uh hearing is 17 Franklin Avenue applicant Susan Santos for variant from zoning barot 71 to separate two dwellings into individual Lots sub dwelling currently occupy one lot second is located at 1 Franklin Avenue Westport Mass and is shown on assessor map 23 watch 47 and 47b andang on a second okay again uh those who will be voting on this and it requires a four out of five vote is Jerry patino Ry Elias myself Roger manard George stas and uh Janice B and like I said it did require four out of five and what prompted this I think there was a letter here from rph yes U Dear Mr Santos this is a letter from Ral soua after review of plan of Land showing a division of parcels 20 23- 47 and and 47b I determined that the Lots combined contain 51 879 ft of area with two dwellings on it in order to subdivide the lot into two individual Lots you would need variance from the board of appeals from the West zoning bylaws article 71 minimum residential lot area page so and again it will work the same way as previously we'll listen to the petitioner board will ask questions and then we'll open it up to the audience for for comments so good evening good evening to the board attorney McKenzie long here on behalf of the applicant sus Santos and I will be presenting what we have going on here I believe you all have a copy of the plan of land was done by Zenith land surveying believe it's an 11 by 17 I do have a full-size plan if necessary here give you a little history on the property here the applicant has had this property in her family uh since around 1950 she's lived there all of her life essentially um and occupies the rear dwelling which is a two family dwelling with her son the front dwelling closest to Sanford road to the West is occupied by her grandson who joins us here in the um audience um and that in his family and plan here is to subdivide I use that term lightly as this does not qualify as a subdivision under Mass General law and Westport Town zoning bylaws this property both houses were constructed prior to 1971 so they meet the requirement as existing prior to subdivision control coming into Massachusetts coming into Westport Massachusetts correct me um so the reason for light use of the word subdivision but the uh two dwellings are sub serviced by separate septic systems they're both going to remain occupied by the same people uh but the intent behind this is so that her grandson Corey can obtain financing to improve the front dwelling for uh a more suitable use for him and his family um and Susan the applicant will remain occupying the rear dwelling and um with her son I can go into more detail or I can take questions it you realize that the the zoning board doesn't have authority to make New Lots yes so the reason that we're here is because these are we're not creating new Lots the the subdivision per se will not meet as Ralph put in his letter current zoning standards because they're undersized Lots we're here because of the denial from Ralph so we're not could you uh go into some detail as far as where the anr that was approved by the planning board fits into all of this um you know what I'm talking about right I to be honest with you no well to me that's the Crux of this whole thing uh subsequent uh communication back and forth with the planning board indicates that they approved the subdivision of this lot if you want to call it a subdivision it's not a subdivision but uh approval not required uh back a year or two the plan yeah uh like I say July of last year yeah a year or two they they approved an anr and from what I'm gathering it all has to do with the fact that um the the anr approval was never recorded by the applicant uh and I I don't know where that all fits into this but as Roger says we we can't we can't create Lots we can't uh subdivide property uh we're not be under the planning board so and I understand that as I mentioned the reason for the application here is because of the letter from the denial from Ralph as the zoning enforcement officer stating that it didn't meet current zoning so the as much as the plan was recorded I believe the plan was not recorded because of Ralph's I mean I'm on the same page with with all of you in that sense I mean if you're saying that all we have to do is record the plan and the situation is fine I don't know that because I don't know if there's a deadline and after that it becomes I don't believe there's a deadline for I don't think there is either but once it's been stamped uh see what what I'm getting at is Ralph's letter says in order to to subdivide the lot into two individual Lots you would need a variance from the zoning board it's got two lots with the anr I don't know if you want to take a minute and actually look at that correspondence I have the anr I don't have the yeah you were not involved with the I had nothing to do with the do your Cent in for the zoning appeal could could your clients uh maybe explain some of that uh to be honest with you I do believe that there's just been a lot of confusion surrounding this situation my client has stated to me that originally they started before the selectman selectman told them that could this couldn't happen and not and as I informed them that wasn't the correct course of action I to me the anr was provided to me as this plan and we need we had the letter from Ralph stating that we needed a variance for it to be you know basically get the blessing from the zoning board to then record and move on from here blessing for what for to watch which we can't do what I read and even if we could do one of the requirements for variance is you have to show a hardship and the hardship has to be based on on the the aspects of the property there's a stream running through it or there's a ledge or there's a whatever so even you know we would have a really difficult time because like I said we we don't have authority to to to subdivide no I understand we have a plan that's been recorded here um or has not been recorded but has been stamped by the planning right so um yeah I mean in that case I think I'm just going to proceed with recording the plan and go from there you're from what you're saying as I mentioned the reason for coming here was because of Ral s and and I understand that you know that's how it was presented to me yes and I talked to Ralph on the phone and spoke with him and then I did my own research and conducted that both of these property both of these dwellings pre-existing non-conforming yes and you know but I also I will say I was not aware that the anr had been fully put through so yeah well because when I just opened this plan in front of you I noticed that it had the stamp's letter specifically says subdivision uh right to subdivide into two lots you would need to go well that's it's already two lots that's what confused me when I first I talked to Michael bur planner this week about this because I was confused and saying we can't do anything what can we do with this yes and he said you know it's already come in front of us on already they're just waiting for Signature so now I don't know whether that being an anr would in any way affect his ability to do financing or anything like that I don't think no once it's subdivided in the term of subdivision here it's a legal separate lot and they could take a mortgage on that lot specifically so has your client Been Told By A lender that that it's not too lar we don't have so this has not been with the registry of deeds so as much as they've been subdivided in the term of the planning board on record we do not have two separate Lots yet right so by recording the plan we would create that I've held off on doing anything like that because I wanted to come before the board first but I completely understand what you're all saying so are you saying when you go if you have a record if this plan's recorded and you go back to Ralph he's going to say oh you don't you're all SI I I guess I mean that to be honest I think it's almost a moot point in that regard mhm yes because it would be according to the planning board two Ls correct yeah see I was led to believe that the issue had to do with lenders uh you know fin yeah no no that that's no there would be I see no issue from a legal standpoint of a of a lender taking a mortgage on either property once this plan is recquired and I understand they couldn't do it now because it's one property exactly and and it's also just you know for the town for everything it's much cleaner when we take two dwellings and you know put them on their own Parcels right regardless of the size of them so I I do think you know that this just comes down to a bit of a miscommunication across the board um not the board but just in general across all boards um but for me as long as I this is enough for me to feel comfortable proceeding well what I'm not understanding is and that's what I'd like to hear from your Cent uh somebody somebody took the initiative to go to the planning board we're not hearing here who that was a lawyer for them it was us did joh before you talk can you get the microphone oh sorry name and address 296 Sanford Road uh West B Mass Cory Grotto and uh we actually came here cuz the house that I live in I've been living in for the past 10 years it just needs like some serious help and for me to keep putting money into it putting money into it I'm not getting any Equity I'm not getting nothing out of the house so my thing was I would subdivide it becomes mine then I can stop putting money it needs a needs Windows floors it just I live there with my wife and my two kids so yes but you went to the planning board some did John accompany you when you went to the yes he did okay so the engineer that designed this the guy that did the whole plan tags all the all the T ties from the houses all that he came with us that day and then planning board yes and John got the plan John romanelli from Zenith L surveying got the plan approved and then the letter from Ralph came if we're looking here yeah yeah this letter is dated January of 2024 and this plan was endorsed July of 2023 last year yeah so John had reached out to me and said hey we have this issue I have this letter and then then we met because it was never registered or recorded with recorded so therefore it never existed y right now the other question I had that that sort of came up you just said you live on sanord road y uh these are both it's facing s 17 I think for the I think mailing address so what's the story on that that the frontage for the hot the lot on the Westerly side that he occupies is on sanord road oh so it will have an address it will it will have an address yes it has an address now which in in terms of mail yes the address to the property yes when where's the front door uh the front door faces s front yes that's why it would be that way yeah that's my front door soon as you open up well anyway it looks it looks to me like you you already had what you needed it just needed to be recorded in the registry of deeds maybe someone never told you that probably not I no I I mean my understanding from all of this was with the denial letter from Ralph they would have a problem going forward with yeah anything else especially going to do improvements upon the dwelling so but I think we have enough of an answer to move forward I will uh we can do two things then you can either withdraw or we can vote on it no we'll we'll withdraw the application okay um I mean do I need a motion or you motion would they be better off to to have us uh continue it uh in case he has to come back I don't think I I think I'm my but there's nothing we could do and that was my coming here tonight I was also confused on exactly what this isn't a standard variance this is there's no hardship I understand that my like I said the reason for coming here was an appeal of Ralph's denial you you're right you're complying with with the zoning enforcement exactly yes right so even if you came back we we can't do you have authority to do this I agree so so I think it withdrawal makes the most sense but I'd rather come here and have you say that than now it makes it easier to go back the other way and say this is this is where we're at I think this is uh U appropriate for a withdra um without oh do I need to do I need to make a motion to withdraw the application really what you want to do is you want it without prejudice yes you know the difference yes of course you're making a request to us just for Janice because you haven't been through this a little bit the the difference pre say without prejudice I can come if tomorrow he decided to reapply he could do it if we don't do it without prejudice he'd have to wait two years so allowing him saying oh I made a mistake I want to come back he can do it tomorrow if he wants that gives him that option if you know if he needs it can I Orly do the motion do you need it ready no uh we have a uh no we don't have no no well we have we have the ones to continue oh we have the one to no you know you need to write it down you just say I got to know request to withdraw without prejudice I'm going to just cross I'll have Susan sign this I know Jerry was probably doing the same as me when I read this I'm thinking what are we supposed to do it's today's 20th I me and I did read the thing from Ralph and I'm wondering why Ralph even wrote that but and when I called him to talk about it he was very clear that he felt that a variance was necessary well yeah I I suspect he doesn't know about that a and probably not yeah and what why would he know from what I understand that was presented the at least the plan I don't know if he knew that it was a formal anr probably not who said that yes so she's saying Ralph instructed her not to record the plan until yes until until we had the variant which can't get a VAR oh so why don't you go ahead and read it and then we precisely why I follow the rules and then the rules keep changing I know how that well that's because Ralph didn't know it was an anr I I do I do think that that was part of the issue so okay so I why don't you go ahead and read it and then we'll vote on it I attorney McKenzie long on behalf of Susan Santos petitioner request to withdraw the petition regarding property located at 17 Franklin Avenue Westport Mass without prejudice currently pending before the zoning board of appeals signed Susan Santos 62024 move to approve second okay any discussion okay so uh there's a motion to approve the with with well without prejudice uh all in favor say I I I all oppos no that's motion is carried so I mean I hope you can wi I know outs we will be there it's just getting the right paperwork to you an extra copy if it is an extra copy I will take that I don't have that copy so thank you thought we could get at least some resolution here well nice to see you anyway yes nice seeing you all be seeing you again soon so have you've completed what how many just the one year so far an attorney yeah uh I've been on my own for a year I've been an attorney for about a year and 6 months now since November of 22 so you find it interesting oh yeah I enjoy this stuff real estate all of that oh yeah great total learning curve though you know you to figure it out you got to come by and and like Susan mentioned we're trying to do the right thing and you know follow the rules and Rapport I have a great rapport with Ralph I want to keep it that way so when he suggested we do this that's you know that's where we we move forward yes exactly so thank you to the board you all have a great night take care and a nice summer thank you very much thank the right direction you can I well can I ask a question yes do I need to to get up here and well is it related to related to that related to this last case that you just had oh well it's really more of asking maybe it this is probably not the appropriate venue maybe but what the appropriate venue would be their property abds mine I received an abutter notification in regards to this particular case right want you get up to the microphone okay we thank you um my name is Claire Ponty Gonzales I live at 19 Summer Avenue my property as I said a butts to their property so Franklin Avenue um is my I should have access to Franklin Avenue from my property because I'm on both sides and right now I can't get access because they have cars trees they just put in a chicken Coupe which is now attached to my fence of my yard so I don't know what is the appropriate Avenue for me if I want to address these issues that's either a the police or be the the uh the zoning enforcement officer zoning enforcement okay a civil matter okay yeah cuz Frank Franklin Avenue is is a road and there's just all kinds of stuff on the road and I don't have access to it so I mean mean you could call First a the police because it could be a safety issue you might also speak with well this is what F what finally pushed me over the edge was the chicken poop um and and so um yep yeah maybe I can connect with them and find out and I don't know who's got the first house or the second house or and we've lived there for 30 plus years so but thank you I appreciate it because I didn't no idea where to go with this so thank you okay next order business is meeting minutes approval meeting minutes for May 29 2024 uh Maria has put together meeting minutes promate everybody everybody has commented on so I will make a motion to approve the May 29 2024 meeting minutes uh as provided have a second all in favor uh you wer here so you can't oh I can't you weren here meeting can't approve the meetings even though be we're approving a meeting that you weren't here for nice all in favor say I hi hi no George wasn't here George you weren't here yet you were traving yeah I wasn't here that's right um you're right do we have a quum we have AUM yeah we have a quum we have three that's um the last order of business is a planning board request comment on uh regarding 146 State Road plan you look at that yeah yeah I I followed up on it with the planning board because uh what what we got and I confirmed with Maria that that is all we receiv received was that plan and that plan doesn't tell you anything you have to guess what they're trying to do well all it is is a u a a site plan approval for uh a new business uh that wants to be built there for um motorcycle repair and Fabrication I believe uh and uh so it's just site plan approval you know they have the parking or about the lights and things like that so I don't see whe there's anything that relates to okay so we just send that back as no comment any other any other business other than uh we probably I mean everybody we are going to be in the midst of of a 40b which which is a essentially a subdivision uh probably coming up in the next couple of months which is going to be a a probably a fairly lengthy ordeal it's not going to be one or two meetings Le see I've only been through one Jerry's been through well all of them probably be like the S yeah it's going to be like the there's going to be several meetings uh hopefully not contentious but uh you know there there is uh some background information that you can look at uh I know Michael burrow sent us a uh some information and and a website that you can go that has a a video that sort of identifies what what our portion of this is and it wor it worthwh watching I watch hour and a half the email what that is that I haven't checked emails in a few days yes so that will be sent out for email yes that will be sent out yes so anyway it's just sort of a uh a precursor we don't have the application yet and this one is quick there's a the requirements for uh fulfilling this are very short time frame we we only get 30 days from the day that they apply that we have to have a hearing and I mean all of the days after that are kind of squatched up so um it would beho everybody to get a little bit of background on what a 40b is yeah and that's the reason why Maria also gave us this uh little booklet yeah so just a little light reading yeah I have been through uh several of these 40 BS uh years ago uh and we haven't had any we haven't had any for 10 years a long time that's the average what I what I have read is that the uh many of the some of the rural I won't say many some of the rules have been changed since we did it for the town of Westport so uh so I definitely feel it's very important for us to all be upgraded on on on what uh what what the rules are now um I um I think this is going to be a relatively easy one because it's duplexes that are going to be for sale uh as opposed to affordable houses or 58 units in a building or whatever like the typical one is um but uh I believe that we have been each been given uh a booklet it's roughly 20 something pages of a booklet describing these besides the booklet telling you where you can uh go for this uh uh training video and so forth um there's uh I would strongly urge all of the board members to read that that booklet I'm about halfway through it right now uh but I'm seeing a lot of things even reminding me of what of what some of the issues are um we um uh we we do get to uh hire uh a u a consultant I guess you'd call it uh to go through the process the state has a list of approved Consultants uh that can Guide local boards through this process so uh I I I would strongly encourage us to consider doing that and uh I think we should get ourselves up to speed sooner than later because right now I think the uh the selectman just got this 40b this week uh this past meeting I believe and uh now it goes back to the state and the state does their little uh lookups and make sure everything's in order and then it's going to come to us uh through the town clerk and uh once that happens as Roger says we have 30 days to hold the first hearing uh but I think completed in 180 days right that's a part I was about to bring up I don't think we had that restriction in the past maybe it's just the way they came about but it seemed to me we were couple of years some of them well maybe it's just me feeling that way aget all the deadline extensions yes there was all uh just like any other applicant that comes before us we have deadlines but if the applicant mutually agrees to extend you know they want to change rules or they want to change a plan or something like that U or we uh we kind of insist on something and they're and they're um reticent to do that uh we have to have time to like negotiate that with them and uh and so uh they can agree to extend the deadline it didn't say that in the book but I do expect that it would be that that video that the video does the book doesn't say it just says 180 days or at least the half of the book that I've read so far uh so the applicant's paying for the consultant yes yes the applicant will pay for the consultant but my recollection was the applicant uh also had paid in the past for uh some of the need for our having to have Town Council uh or our legal representative uh uh be available to us and so forth and this specific the booklet specifically should points that out as an exception to our being able to hire uh outside help where's the book uh you just got yeah did they all get one in their tray yeah that's right now we can't do anything about yeah about getting a consultant until until the first hearing right so once once we have a hearing then we can tell the applicant we want you know that the year pay for the consultant and then and then actually we they actually had negotiate who the consultant is because we' come up with a list of a couple of names and they may have a reason to oh yeah right they they can um uh contest it they contest yeah that's yeah we all got a copy of that this is the book that I'm talking about okay all so it's 20 2 anyway it's uh 30 30 something it's something that we we we need to Bone up on a little bit because it's going to be coming up probably all that all of this book probably is in that I 45 okay that was very helpful watching that oh yeah but I I think you should do both any other uh new business old business if no you want to take over I'll make a motion to close the ha theour the meeting the meeting I'm sorry I second all in favor I I Okay C you were sitting there you're you're in the bar what what you think Janice I think