okay there it being 6:30 I'm going to start the zoning board of appeals meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and
justice for all accordance of Mass General W chapter 38 section 20f this meeting is being recorded first order of business is an application mcad LLC for a special permit to construct three additional buildings on the site located in the aquafer protection district is
mandated by zoning by law 6.2.4 c and a variance to reduce the number of parking spaces from 41 spaces to 20 spaces as mandated by zoning law uh by law 8.3 sub property is located at 1180
American Legion Highwood Westport Mass as shown in the assessors map 28 lots 32j 32f and 32h voting on this will be Jer Cino myself Roger manard constant Ski Ray Elias and cynthy
KET um and the way we'll proceed with the uh with the hearing is I'll have the petitioner provide whatever information is appropriate the board will ask questions once the board has finished asking questions I'll open it up to the public I have one question before we
start we this this has two parts to it the aquafer protection special permit and a variance for Park are they separable I think so I mean I you're voting on both of them separately that's what I mean do we need to pass both or
no you could you could technically pass the the act for protection and then go talk parking after that right okay that makes a difference because if they're yeah all yeah I think it makes sense to separate it just so we'll do two well there's obviously going to be two
separate votes but in some cases uh that we've had one vote depends upon the other if yeah I don't think and you know your parking is probably separate from the aquifer okay probably don't need the parking if we don't approve the aquer yeah exactly you won't be parking anything
there all right good evening to the board attorney M long here on behalf of the petitioner M LLC here with our engineer Shan leech uh we were here in October of last year on a similar plan we've had some minor changes which resulted in um us coming back before the
board per your request to discuss the changes that we've made uh since being before the board we've received our approval from the Conservation Commission as well as our site plan approval uh and low impact development
approval from the planning board um that brings us back here we're the final board here to um give us the thumbs up and allow the project to take shape uh there are some was it due to the planning board input that you changed the aquifer part of this this say that
again no okay well you came to us several months ago and you saying for the planning board is that why you went to the planning board and now you're coming back to us so I assume there was something in the planning board no the reason that we changed it was the plan that we brought before the Zoning Board
in October was a preliminary plan as I had mentioned at that point to get gauge approval um with the hope of that being the only approval but based on the board's determination that a sign ific change was made the biggest being the we removed one of the drainage ponds the
reason for doing so in our opinion myself and both Engineers that did the work it was less of an impact on the aquafer so we removed one of the drainage ponds and were able to meet all of the uh you know applicable rules and regulations with just one drainage pond
so less of an impact on the aquaair less of an impact on the area okay I don't understand why it's less of an impact on the because we would have to in in my opinion and what we had discussed is it would have been you know more excavation
more land disturbance more um of an infiltration one more retention pond in terms of size sure yes but the load of you know the gallons per day or this is something that Sean's going to get into yeah Shawn can get into the
details of the uh calculations even though Ed peshi was the engineer that did the drainage calculations Sean's very well versed on that that um and can discuss it but I'll discuss the overall Plan before when we came here same exact plan as last time three storage
buildings um entering from Route 177 traffic flowing North around the existing structures and then again south and to the West in a loop uh one continuous loop we're doing uh proposed asphalt throughout the entire project
per the fire department's request fire signed off and is an agreement conservation agreed that everything was fine here um and planning agreed with with the proposed plan the reason we're here for the uh limited amount of parking spaces is due to the layout of the plan with
the outdoor storage which was discussed with the board originally um we limited the amount of parking spaces under the current zoning um the required spaces one one per thousand square ft and based
on the number of customers that we see on a regular basis we felt that that was quite a bit over um and the planning board does agree Town planner endorsed and stated on record that they are in agreement and support of less parking spaces other than a variance has a
higher standard than than other types of petitions yeah nature characteristics of the land and yes uh so so one don't we treat one thing at a time let's go through the part of it and then we'll tackle the parking sounds good I think I
think that pretty much sums up the gist of the aquafer the biggest change from last meeting to this meeting is the removal of the pond to the Northeast okay what did you say that the fire department W were all all as all Asal as opposed to the proposed gravel and in
the aquafer Protection District the standard for an impervious surface is a difference of 2% uh asphalt is 98% Sean is that 96 96 and and uh gravel was like 94 or vice versa
very close gravel was within 2% so you know it wasn't a big change it didn't have much of an effect on the drainage calculations the uh engineer that did the drainage calculations waited on that at the planning board meeting and stated that there was really no material change nothing changed pipe size drainage load
the uh size of leeching um infiltration B Basin and all of that is still the same so that was what prompted the removal of the Pond to the north was less disturbance of the site and then you know not creating an additional space Also we'd be creeping into the
right on the border of the wetlands if we had to add that second one so this is outside of the uh you know uh 200 foot Riverfront Zone Etc so that sums up the aquafer portion of it well that touches the top of it what
what we need to know you came to us and we approve something months ago we need to know what the heck what is the difference from what you posed previously to what you were now proposing okay so uh to go over uh some of the changes were requested by as like
the fire department and during the planning board did you identify process um yes Sean Le from Northeast Engineers uh was were requested by various departments uh some of the Departments obviously the fire department was a a big player in this so what you see sh in
this darker gray here was originally proposed to be uh gravel and is now asphalt so basically this was just what was adding on to the addition asphalt so basically about 5% of the total area of the lot had a 2% change so there wasn't a lot of
change but the permeability of asphalt is that much the town of Westport uh is very conservative in their requirements for the what they consider gravel roads most gravel roads uh are like an 868 8% uh if you it's kind of a bad way of
phrasing it but the curve runoff number of what how much comes off is like 86 to 88% yeah town of Westport requires 94 oh so it's very you almost treat gravel rows like a do were asphal okay so it's a much higher standard yeah it's a it's a much stricter standard than what
massachus storm water actually requires so the the this little area that you see but that means there's less permeability that's I mean you're going to have more runoff correct right more runoff than faster off there's quality and quantity so by 2% though is what the 2% or the
total area so instead of requiring a pond over here which we thought we were going to need just to take care of the drainage coming off this third building uh once the calculations were done things were formalized and Grading was done it was only required to have one uh infiltration pond with a sedimentation
Basin with grass well leading to it which meets the requirements for uh suspended solid removal and infiltration according to the town of Westport bylaws for for the AC for protection district so instead of having to disturb any area up in here which we have not there's less impact to the site because there's
less grading essentially uh the location of the building sizes of the buildings sizes of the asphal per as versus the gravel has not changed so the development portion of the property itself has not changed this particular plan also includes
Landscaping so one of the things that the neighbors were requesting and the town were requesting were extensive Landscaping so we have some Landscaping up in here uh to stop any headlight I mean this is about 10 ft higher than this parking lot anyway but uh Longs have volunteered to put this up here to
shade the person that lives over here she was in front of the board uh last time we were here and there was a request to do more screening along Route 177 so they're leaving the existing trees and adding a whole bunch of arbores and Cedars along front to to
provide screen further screening along 177 uh they wanted to move the sign from this side of the driveway to this side of the driveway which is no big deal uh it's just this is where the existing sign was they would like it they liked it over here the wetlands line was
approved by the Conservation Commission we're holding a policy that they have a 25% 25 ft no disturbance around the wetlands so all around the wetlands is just going to remain the same that didn't change from beginning to end but
I just want to point that out that it is an accepted weap line so the drainage calculations the landscaping and the lighting all down lighting meet the requirements of the planning board the pavement met the requirements for the fire department for access to and from the buildings so we
met all the requirements the changes as uh act has pointed out was we added the underground the excuse me the outside storage uh to parking spaces discussed it with you guys which are very significant size 33 by 10 that's enough
for an RV to go in there that's uh without causing any problems and leaving 27 ft of travel Lane around the building itself which is more than enough required by the both the planning board but the fire department if we're concerned for turning you say that the
traffic flow is going to be One Direction way around right yep one way all the way around one way all the way around the only other thing we did was we added another gate security gate so when we were here the last time time the gate was a little bit closer to the highway we bumped it back to add extra
space so so that people wouldn't be queuing up out on the entrance of 177 that we would have enough for get four cars waiting in here or a large truck and RV or something like that now as far as the and parking for the facility itself for customers and our employees
there's no standard in the town for this type of facility and there's not a lot of Standards locally the one we could find most local was the city of Providence uh as they have quite a if you go down 95 you see quite a few of these units now going up on each side of 95 and they required one parking space
per 10 units we're providing 43 parking spaces here well that's what would be required what we're providing is 20 22 I believe listed on the plan yeah so that which is basically 220 units if you went by the
standard of the city of Providence so there was no standard and the uh peer reviewer for the planning board thought that to be reasonable amount of parking spots for the number of customers that well the zoning byla required one space for every th square fet plus one additional space for every two employees
that's what's in the bylaw yes but that's for what kind of Warehouse it say it's under anything warehouse storage Storage storage yes so according to our bylaw you are required to have one part and again now we're getting away from yeah no but I mean we are discuss it we
can get into that after but does Maria have the decision from last time I have it as well didn't we specifically exclude uh parking of automobiles yes for for storage sake but we have to have parking for customers Park yeah but you were talking about you for RVs and
things yeah we had discussed and when we had the meeting with you guys in October RVs were permissible yes but you know you couldn't do maintenance we couldn't no maintenance no uh cars of any sort we said boats trailers and uh RVs were okay
was the specul you know how we discussed it I thought I thought it was interesting I did watch the planning meeting for this and I was at the previous one yes and there was a lot of complaints when it was in front of us here that people were there but everyone
that was in front of the this hearing right here that was this when this was approved at the planning board came in a positive way I mean they all spoke at the podium to say yeah they they're doing everything they can to to S all of the concerns that we had what came up
doing that was lighting yes and and that that lighting the Landscaping all of the concerns that people that were here were there in support following the meeting here when we because we did have quite a bit of feedback from Neighbors in our
meeting in October we met on site with all of the neighbors and discussed all of their concerns and addressed them individually and made sure that they were comfortable and understood they just didn't want some big massive building going up with lighting shining into their house and you know all of that and so we met with them and
discussed all of that and yes as as Ray pointed out they all came to the uh planning board meeting and expressed support to the planning board that we were you know meeting their expectations and that they were happy with the proposed plan so in terms of the aquafer I I
think that gives the gist of the changes from where we were when we were in October yeah the only thing I'm I'm still not convinced about is you came to us was November October well follow when I all right last all yes U well you're
still walking yes the [Laughter] um and Mr Lee convinced us with his calculations that he needed what he needed and so what changed that now says you didn't you don't need what you said
you needed four months ago in my opinion so I know but Sean didn't do the no we didn't do a final calculation we were we did a quick estimate just to see you know you don't go into and it and say tell you an expensive calculation and Engineering Process if it's not going to
fly so we did a conservative calculation that said if we have all this this and this we have shallow ponds we would need a a smaller Pond here and a pond here as we turned out we could go deeper with the pond not make it bigger and eliminate this Pond all together which was in favor of this so you said you're
making this one deeper it's slightly slightly deeper and so what was it before uh I don't I don't have but so the what Sean is getting at when we came before the board in October as I mentioned before the board we did this
step by step and our approach was to come and get the zoning board's approval before going to planning and conservation which we told you was the wrong thing to do and I and I agree it's agree to disagree it's an opinion thing we wanted to make sure that the board was agreeable to our proposed project
which is three storage buildings that's the gist of what this project is we didn't want to go through planning go through conservation get all the approvals and then come to you guys and have you say no storage right we don't like that in the aquifer so we felt more comfortable coming before the board
getting your approval which we did based on preliminary calculations we hadn't done a form formal drainage load as as Sean pointed out it's quite expensive and quite extensive so we did preliminary calculations preliminary drawings and came before you guys to to
show our plan and in planning saying okay you guys give us the thumbs up then we'll move forward we I came back before you in November or December after you said if you remove the pond we feel like it's significant we discussed it and that's what brought us back here today
yep the discussion and the reason for for changing it is because after we spent all of the money and did all of the drainage calculations the engineers determined that this was sufficient to satisfy the needs and as I said before I think it's you know a shared opinion of
ours that if we don't have to do excav and removal of Phill and etc etc especially bordering on the Wetland in that northeast corner that this was less of an impact on the aquifer but this there were two retention PLS now
there's one and the one that's there is equivalent to having two of them correct yes okay it satisfies what where you had the were you were going to put the one that got eliminated yes uh what what surface is that going to be it's just
going to be so the so the dark shaded gray area is the only part that's paved everything else that you see will be grass well what about the ex but the existing parking lots paved the existing pavement is remaining we're not disturbing that either
yeah has construction started the only thing that has been done and that was discussion with Ralph uh prior to his leaving and the planning board as well the two front buildings most South the slabs went in before the cold weather because we had grading and site was kind
of sitting there ready to go and they basically said proceed at your own risk but we felt confident in doing that because on across every plan and any amendment that we've had none of the buildings have moved theyve all remained in position the like Sean said the fire
department approved it distances all of that so the only thing that has been done on the site is grading and the concrete slabs have been poured for those buildings at the South okay if any any questions about the aquafer uh we can get into discussions about the parking part I
think one last thing about the aquafer that we we had discussed we did discuss no automobiles on site whatsoever if the board was open to it we have had discussions about this northeast building potentially being used for ins side automobile storage we do that at
our other facility and in doing so we would be following what was done with uh demello's building near Lexi L's not sure of the address on 177 where there would be a water separator inside the building so that if any drainage of
anything happened inside the vehicle inside the building there would be a water separator that's a posed question we're not you know sold on it but we find a demand for inside car storage the rest of this facility is all inside household storage so we were proposing
that this one building be permitted to potentially be used for inside car storage with a water separator being used for any drainage cars could be in uh maybe but in order to do that you would have to then show us the plans for
the separate you know it we're not well depending on what depending on what the board wants so if it's if it's I don't think we're asking for that tonight they're not asking you to approve that tonight that's something you can then come back later say if you want to do car storage here's how you're going to manage it okay so I'm just mentioning
that for sake of conversation not that we want more work no but none of us do you're certainly not ready to propose that yet no we do not have the the plan showing a a fuel water separator and all of that so you you do the car in here
car storage at your other facility yeah existing that's been in place but not but not with a water separator uh it's been in existence prior I mean we we've been doing that since 200 it's not in an aqua for protection area yeah that as well no no I understand that but the
plumbing code I'm not sure to be honest with that building the the building is is older I was just wondering if it if it was needed or no it's recommended in this area being that it's in AER yeah it's a plumbing code that changed some 20 years ago now where they require
drains interior drains oil water separators for for anything you know car whether you work on car would you have hydraulics would they have whatever yeah it would be no working it's just purely storage based but yeah so that was purely for
conversational purposes but for the sake of our discussion for the aquafer this plan these layouts this is the drainage calculations based on the proposed plan okay let's talk a parking so do do you want to do the do you want to close
out or we'll do the whole thing and close and then on the whole hearing cuz Okay I just like to ask why do we not want to consider the whole thing now instead of them coming back they don't have because they're not ready for it yeah we we don't have the plans for that
building they would have to show what's the plan for how they're going to do the oil separator and where it's going to uh you know how many cars all all that just like we did for the one cross from Lexi loose wasn't noticed that way it wasn't noticed that way either no yeah household St that's totally fine right
like I said it was more to gauge M opinion on that so we'll the plan as it's proposed is for inside household storage on all of the buildings if we want to change that we would come back with a formal plan for that specific building in the future
when we get ready to build that building one thing we I guess we didn't just I didn't even think of it until you started talking about car storage last time um is how does does uh so there's sprinklers inside of
Y these right no so in the event of a fire and having to to having the fire department come out how does that water affect the aquor it would be caught in drain yeah
every it it would follow the flow of but isn't there a hell a lot more water than the storm but you have to size it appropriately for that type of thing you in your calcul you you do that's part of the yeah that's all part of it so you know I said a building of this size and
from experience I The Firm I work for has done the car vaults on a new for have you seen those oh yeah I almost bought one okay all right so there's a significant amount of calculations they are a little bit more higher ended I think you know because they have the elevators and the lifts and all the
other well and you go out this one this yours is going to be like one of the one where it's you go you go in in October and you don't out until yes exactly April or what exactly but you have to you have to plan for great drains that the introd is for rainstorms sow Ms fire any any other potential and it's
designed on a 100-year storm as well which is like massive you know load that isn't yeah 14 inches of rain and three hours yeah exactly Monsoon okay like I I said um at the very beginning the various part of this
is uh is a bit more strict um you there's more hurdles you have to pass for for a variance one of the major ones that's going to be difficult for this is you need to show a hardship and the hardship has to be based on the Topography of the of the
land in other words you had a ledge somewhere or you had a stream running through the middle of it nature soil topography characteristics specific to the land and I think number one overarching here is the fact that we're in the aquifer so we're Limited in what we can do because of the fact that we're
in the AER but you have enough parking if you didn't if you didn't do you have enough parking if you don't do this outside storage but the parking so we're again and this was proposed as a parking faor I didn't expect to get into a full variance argument but if we need to
discuss a variance here the the reason for this is because we're talking about household storage and we've been doing household storage going on 25 years now and on an average basis we see three to five customers per day across 700 units
I I I understand but I'm looking at the bylaw the bylaw says you need one car per thousand for warehouse storage for warehouse storage and you know one for every two you know for for people that work there in order to get a variance
from us you need to you need to identify what hardship forces you to not be able to comply with that other than I understand you probably don't need 40 parking spaces they probably not 40 people there but that's not what the bylaw says so in
order for us to approve this we have to understand what what what hardship is causing the uh the to be honest with you if we're really going to go into this if we count the spaces that are RV parking
spaces they are parking spaces so yes we meet the requirement if you count the am amount of parking spaces if we deem everything to fall under parking spaces then we don't really need a waiver okay if if that's if we're going to go into that identify whatever it is 42 or
whatever the there's way more than is there there is no more there's there is if if we count up all that in order for you to talk we we can't open it we when when I when we open it up to the public then
no no we you can't talk until yes yes great definitely there's no such thing as a waiver there's no parking waiver for a variant yeah we we at we went for the variant I know but the the planning board considered it a parking waiver was how they talked about
it but that's because they were saying okay you need this based on the parking spaces but if we're talking about parking spaces in my opinion we're Counting the RV you have to on your plan identify all the all the all the parking
spaces what are we going to do with 41 parking spaces is the question are we not allowed to park we're we're saying we can't have automobiles there so then now we have 41 parking spaces are they 42 42 yeah and I'm not going to tell you what you can park there so how many do how many do we need how many do they
need based upon this the bylaws 42 because you got uh how many 42,000 Square fet or 40,000 sare feet and two employees two employees 42 parking spaces there's 42 parking spaces shown
on this plan okay including got it no but you're going to be using for storage and I think of you're using some of those for storage that storage space that is not parking space I mean you're parking we're kind of getting into the weeds here and my again like I really feel I think it's pretty clear then you
need to make those buildings smaller so then you have I mean we've got to have parking for those buildings inde dependent of like the zoning law says you have to have 42 parking spaces for those three buildings and the other buildings that are there right because actually have we counted the other
buildings that were there what do you mean yes that's the 40 the 42 spaces are required based on but that plant right yes then then you have then the other spaces can't be used for storage because you still need the 42 what are you going to do what are you going to do with if you
have like you got 42 now if you go down to 20 what are you going to do he's putting you storage we have we have RVs currently stored on site right now and we're the whole purpose of showing these spces was to continue exactly as we had discussed in October nothing has changed
in terms of outside storage we went through I mean we had a three-hour meeting and discussed all of the details of automobile storage and RVs and this and that and we came to a conclusion that we wouldn't park cars there overnight we have to have parking for our customers
this plan provides ample parking for our customers I mean we could have everybody here come on down and we can have a party and we can hang out and there is more than enough space for everybody to come in bylaws not in accordance with the bylaw if we're considering those to be parking spaces yes no I don't
consider them to be parking spaces be storage spaces why not the last thing we want to do is to encourage more impervious um area so we we don't want to put have them what make more down wait put down more asphalt so so let's say let's say this is okay you're
looking for a variant so you have to uh provide a hardship well I think you're right I think being in the aquafer is a hardship and I mean the why would we want him to to Asault any more ground
than he has we wouldn't approve it either I don't think we would the thing is is that you also said you but you also said2 of them you also said at the last meeting if we had a problem with store outside storage if Vehicles you would just move them to your other facility but now you decided you really
want them here and I mean they asking for a variance based because really the variance you're asking for is a financial one because you want to be able to you you know take 20 spots and get the the the fees for those 20 spots
that's what you're you're the variance is because of financial hardship and that's not it's not purely financial hardship but that's not a comp of variance I mean it's part of it but that's not a condition that's not a you're not supposed to be talking and
second of all no taxes second of all financial hardship is not a condition I'm not arguing that a financial hardship is is is a consistent of a variance my argument is that if we were going to go into the variance argument because you're considering the parking spaces of RVs to not be
qualified as parking spaces then our hardship is the fact that we're in the aquifer because based on the nature topography soil characteristics Etc we fall into the aquifer which then qualifies as a variance I've gotten variances for far less than than this the shape of this land is is a a
irregular shape again that's a variance a qualif qualifier for a variance the fact that this is an irregularly shaped lot with a exit to uh unv which we've abandoned and unused and actually given an easement to the budding neighbor so
that we don't even use that space anymore we have blocked it off we're purely looking to continue storing in the exact manner that we are we removed any concerns when we were here in October the board had a concern about some of the you know decrepit and and falling apart equipment that was on
there all gone it's been cleaned up every single thing that was listed out by the board has been accomplished and taken care of per your request we're here the planning board requested that we get a specific variance or a parking waiver but we're not under the bylaw there is no such thing as a parking
waiver so we are in a variance no if we say no to the variant where would you put 20 other parking spaces on that property I mean we I we you couldn't have three buildings that's we well number one we would just if if you say you don't approve it if you don't
approve the variants for the parking then we would have to do something with the outside storage because we we would have to get rid of the outside storage but again we're asking for a variant based on the nature topography the layout the building that would and the fact you want three buildings on it which requires 42 spots
but I don't I don't can in all honesty what is the what is your why are you apprehensive of because the our bylaws require x amount of parking for the amount of space that you have based on on an an irrational number of parking spaces then then you know what put in a
warrant on the next town meeting and have that fixed in the bylaws but right now those are our bylaws I'm I'm this one person here so you have five you have understand I just I don't this apprehensive the last time you were here and I don't understand cuz we weren't talking about I question how much
parkings you need and but last time you didn't ask for a variance variance that's fair enough okay I understand that we couldn't talk about it yeah okay if I may and you said there was ample parking the problem is with the bylaw itself discussing with the town planner the peer reviewer and the planning board
itself they agreed that they don't have a category for Mini Storage the storage you're reading a storage Warehouse as if you were storing uh you know Frozen donuts for Dunkin Donuts or something along those lines this is a different
use and that's why it's distinctly been to set the plan board we did and they and everybody on the planning board supported us getting a a variance for this specific reason because it pushes it off of their plate and puts it they also can't they also can't issue issue a
Vari they can't go against what is black and white in the in the zoning bylaw yes correct but the issue is is that as much as it's black and white it's very vague and we fall into this category yes the every other storage facility it if you
go around Westport I guarantee you that there are no storage facilities in Westport right now that meet that that meet that zoning bylaw and we're proposing to just continue doing exactly what we're doing we're asking for a variance I can prove that we have a irregular shaped lot no well you're not
asking to continue what you're doing because you're adding three more buildings which add adds traffic to it so let's just don't let's call The Kettle what it is okay you're not just doing what you're doing if you were doing what you're doing those three buildings weren't weren't not would not be going up okay but we already approved
the three buildings right with 42 parking spaces because I asked about parking last time and they said that's all this parking they had they had ample parking myself I I don't see what what what difference it makes what vehicle
you park in in let me please uh if you got 42 spaces you require 42 spaces uh whatever you parking them you you parking them uh if if if they suddenly found out that they
needed 20 more spaces for in and out traffic they'd have to find a way to do it uh I think the only difference is that these other spaces may be used overnight uh instead of just for
transient traffic more than I'm saying that the the difference is uh that the type of vehicle the type of storage the type of parking whatever you want to call it the point is I think
they have uh sufficient parking over there I'm trying to use a little Common Sense here also that uh you know we're talking about a storage thing with people in and out I've never seen a line of cars parked at any any storage
facility then why is our byas I mean you know I mean I think it's it's it's President right if we just sort of if we just put a blind eye to what our bylaws say because we we agree it's it's
irrational and I agree it's irrational right but we can't do that else we set president for every other piece in those bylaws that may we may seem to be deemed to be irrational that's where I have a problem with I don't want us to if I I
hear you on the precedent I totally understand that but you're not I don't I don't think you're setting any precedent because there the aquafer protection district is such a limited Corridor within the town There's no there's really no other building in the aquafer Protection District or no other piece of
property in the aquafer Protection District because as you go more South you're abutting Westport River and now you're outside of the commercially zon space so that's where I feel that the variance does fit and and in order to meet the qualifications of the variants
we're not just purely basing this on parking spaces we're saying that the shape of the land being in the aquifer the existing topography that's been in place since 1960 prior to zoning there are a lot of things and a lot of hurdles that somebody else would have to and but for the fact you want outdoor storage
you can't you can't discount the fact that it's because you want outdoor storage but I you and and two seconds ago just said with Jerry that it's overnight parking so we're talking about parking spaces the bylaw does not specify what they get used for and what
parks there and I I I tend to agree with you on the point that that you have sufficient parking spaces how you use those parking spaces is it really defined in our bylaw right yes and we're we're on top of that we're actually
doing what you guys are saying and and not parking automobiles long term so we're going a step further they don't need a variance they have 42 spaces right so we just deny the variance but they don't well no we can we can
actually make a ruling that said the variance isn't required yeah let's do that if we if we so to conscience needs a nap if if if that and and I and I agree with Jerry on two counts and that's
that's really rare right well he was in here last week you had it kind of catch you know you've identified you have sufficient parking yes it's how do you identify what parking is and there's nothing in our bylaw that says you can only park for a
certain number of hours whether it be overnight or for a week how many people part you know I know people that have people that have cars that are that sit there for months without using them is is that called parking is that not qualified as a parking and the other aspect of this is is is the Common Sense
part of this we know you don't need 40 spaces for storage just realistically from a realistic standpoint the bylaw no and I can understand the bylaw it was a simple math yes a space per th000 square F feet when it was put into
place I don't think anybody had the forethought to think this would cause a problem now I'm even going to go jump further off the loop and I'm going agree with you that even if you required 42 parking space the fact that it's in an aquifer you could put parking spaces way over to
the East and make that whole thing parking certainly something we don't want you to do just for the just for the sake of so that doesn't make any sense we could deny that though do we need a motion to say that we do not we're going
to get into this but once once we get to the point of of making of closing the hearing I would also like to say that uh I think it's a good thing that we uh have someone
entrepreneurial who's willing to uh uh put their money and their effort into something like this uh because all of those RVs that are there are there were in a protected kind of environment that
we're setting uh with the conditions and other than that where are they going to be in the field someplace uh you know is that better I'd also like to add that we went so far as to put a restriction on the transfer or sale of this property
that any new buyer would have to come before the board and get approved which is a mighty high threshold that we're agreeing to to assure the board that we are taking this seriously and ensuring that we are following every request that you have put in place and like I like I
said I mean we're really adhering to that we're agreeing to put that use limitation and you know restriction on the property that 20 years from now if we decide to sell this property we will have to come back before the board at that time and get their approval to for
a new buyer you know that was a that was a an approve that was part of the approval that we got in October and and we're completely content with doing so and just to clarification for the board I think if we say that the wave of variance is not necessary I'm more comfortable with that because then it
doesn't set presidents right and I also would like the board to stop discussing other reasons why they should not need a variance because I think that would set president in the record yeah what um how are you going to segregate those
parking spaces that could potentially be for longer than customer usage in what sense when you say segregate well I mean are they're going to be signs saying you you know parking only or painted lines on the ground I mean and we're talking
about I mean we're now my my now I flip the coin and say we're talking about them all being parking spaces so why would we well but if you if you were then decide that you're going to put 42 RVs in there then that doesn't allow parking that doesn't allow Fair the well
the the biggest thing being is that the dimensions of the space are that it's not limited or feasible to park if we started there's only 20 RV size spaces yes exactly the size of the SP the rest of them are car size okay okay that
would be the difference between and you just need to and we meet the handicap requirement we actually have additional handicap parking on site for different parts of the building with handicap access ramps and Etc the biggest thing that we discuss with planning and I will point this out the the issue with the parking and I I do agree that we
somebody should probably go before the select board and making a petition to amend this is that when you come to a storage facility if you know if I am entering on the west side of the southernmost building I'm going to park
near the west side of the southernmost building and unload my vehicle and then move my car to a parking space And so there's like almost like a loading and unloading Zone so typically you know yes there are times where customers come in and need to get into their unit and they're looking through boxes they Park in a regular space and they go into
their unit but most people you know most people are moving in or moving out it's a very you know and so you put your car near the door you load up and you leave and you're there half hour 20 minutes you know somebody that's there for a longer time that you know because we do have customers that have racks and you know go through their files and things
like that they Park in a regular space unless you're on the Storage Wars TV show yes and then everybody Parks all over the place so yeah know at that point you people 177 but we try to stay away from that style of of things and actually and if you make the other
building car storage that actually adds it def it deflates the need for parking because that that those people are not coming they're not coming and parking they're is coming they someone's dropping them off and they're getting the car yeah exactly but that's the story for another day
yes if we decide to go that rout I don't know that we will what really needs car parking where you can go in and out but we can have a spot for you specifically you can't I can't take G I Can't Take
gifts and I need about five of them we have [Laughter] other all right I know we have somebody clamoring to talk no he's not gonna he's not gonna speak now I'm open up to the public
anyway I got yes I got this well he's the owner so he should to speak Tech he's not the public met people in order to do that you got to come up here and actually say your name and address and we don't need to do that last time I was before the board
you're right R Great Point um when we came before you the first time it kind of opened up Pandora's Box to the neighbors um stuff that I didn't even know about yeah I'm a good neighbor I've been in this town for 45 years I mean and it kind of opened my eyes and F I
met with all them I went to the houses there was one light actually that was on across the street had nothing to do with us it had actually had to do with the utility when I called them up didn't even know about it and they hadn't been charging anybody for us so I guess the monor had it there for 20 years for free so anyway um but my neighbors we address
like MC brought up we addressed all the concerns with the neighbors um even the older gentleman that was here um he like Ray said he came to the last meeting um he's like I'm I'm fine with everything um we addressed all the concerns so the meeting that we when we did come here I
was kind of glad about it because it was I I it kind of opened it up because for the planning board it made the meeting at the planning board a lot easier for us right they we kind of addressed all the concerns um and it worked out great so um to say we came before you to try to get your blessing and it didn't
happen and then we went before the plan board was kind of good um because it helped us uh to structure the facility in a way that for the neighborhood and then they brought up like the back they were concerned with that back road um I'm the one that said to Ma I'll give it to the
person to the left of it was I'll give him the easement because there's an old uh Stone big old garage at sit actually you can see it on the plan Old Stone they can't get to it and and I said to them look it's probably it might be
pretty old I said but if you want to dig it out and use it for a garage they don't have a garage I said I'll give you a permanent easement just cut the driveway I'm going to block it on the other street so I blocked it in permanently on the other Street on Union a union a so you can't even come in through there anymore because we were
worried about a I said we're not coming through there anymore and then uh I met with him like you'll do that I said yeah I don't need it so I they were thrilled um so now they're going to put a little drive and they're going to clean it up and they're probably going to have a garage to park that car in um so it
worked out so add some parking spaces that's another parking spot well you start start out in a parking spot that road and that's why when I sitting there it was it's pretty long and and we're not using it it we we just closed it off and
if we had to park cars I could double par cars here and I probably put 40 cars on that road okay we're not doing that we're good so anyway thank you any other comments questions before I ask to close the hearing make a motion to close the hearing second any
discussion no all in favor I I so it's unanimous all that means is now you know we'll discuss it and if we have any questions we'll understood so let's let's break this into two parts uh we'll start with the act for protection part
um you know they came in front of us months ago and we approved it they made some changes although from what understand it's um uh consistent with uh uh with what they had
previously um they haven't changed any of the buildings or anything else I don't see there as a major I assume the storm water plan was and conom right yes was uh peer reviewed for the board yeah yeah it's a it's 150 page
long in there oh we know we're doing a yeah very you have a copy of our previous I didn't bring it with I do so I would I would impose the same conditions as the you want just to copy of the conditions just the conditions okay because they they would
be the same um hours of operation storage of automobiles prohibited of any vehicle including Recreation boats or trailer is prohibited they must comply requirement you just said something about boats and trilers being prohibited
no um maintenance M any vehicle maintenance of any vehicle future transfer uh ownership will require approval by the Z appeals because if if you know obviously you want to Ure that the next person is going to adhere to the same Str Str so those are the those
would be the same conditions that that I would that would impose same conditions as we have with for the previous and we're in support the obviously the only thing being the plans dated change and and then we have a full plan set and the plans dated whatever the date was and
provided during this hearing y so uh so I make a motion to to Grant the special permit uh with those conditions I that I outlined and in accordance with the plans uh uh provided so uh the
actual thing is I guess let me see I grant um a special per Acer protection special permit to construct three additional buildings on a site located in the Acer Protection District as mandated by zoning by law section 624c
and Ria you can just fill in all the rest of what's on there uh with the uh with the conditions that uh that I just described I have a motion do I have a second second con second uh discussion no discussion all in favor say I I I all
oppos no let the record show that's unanimous so the second time around I hope this not a third time it's just me too uh now we'll talk about um the variance for parking and no variance I'll make a motion that a variance is not granted is not needed
that uh because uh sufficient parking spaces have been identified and and in my opinion there we don't want to get we just want to say but add to this no you don't want to go ahead what do you want to add and
then is that there's sufficient space there's 42 more spaces if there's needed there's 42 spaces which is re all we need to say is that that there's there there that the number of spaces as required for the comply with the
zoning bylaw yes yes thank you okay is that what you want to say R yeah I'll make yeah you got that Mar as a men second third do I have a second I second
all in favor say I I I all oppose no thank you it's not granted it's removed yes uh and and it's actually I think what uh what Cynthia said was is correct um doesn't doesn't create a uh a new
standard I understand the concern it's uh there's a lot of you know cooking the books goes around town and I think we like to prevent that yeah oh I I totally understand right now uh again it's a 20-day appeal process so you know you
got to wait 20 days or yes you know at your own risk understood thank you to the board I'm going to take my time take your time yes can you definitely take the elevator down I take the I can but down no downstairs stairs is stairs are sketchy I can show you a picture of me
ones what my toe looks like as I actually jabbed myself I'm I'm not bad on them I can get up and down but I definitely but one bad move could make it really worse well your stairs are not exactly uh you know carpeted or forgiving or anything and there's a wonderfully operating elevator at the end of the hallway y as long as you wait
it out yeah I'm I'm going to take my time going over there so thank you to the board thank you have a good evening um thank you any other business we don't have a we don't have any meeting um anything else
uh uh Jerry you weren't here at the last meeting and I watched the whole thing you have to uh I need you then to go and the same as as George you need to write a uh and and Maria will give you a uh a form that you need to sign just saying I watched it and go to the clerk and have
her stamp it so that uh so that we have you know and I think we also all learned something about that that you can only do this once I did not I'm going to check I'm going to check with attorney Blake on that I never heard of that before and I never read about that but I assume he's correct might just be for a 40b too maybe it may be specific to 40b
but I'll check on that but you know we're going to have to be you know careful about that because we're going to need five you know certified voters uh for this when it comes time and you know right now right now it's ended until
June we can right now without another extension we could have meetings all the way up through June and even after that that only gets us to the point of closing the hearing we have then 40 days to make a decision so it could go even further than that we don't normally do that but that's that's you know that is
allowed by the uh by the 40b so how how do we do the decision excuse me how do we do the decision because is it is it public that we all sit and talk about the decision and it's it's all going to be public yes okay and are they allowed to they're allowed to come but they
can't speak right in in this case it would probably be done you know because we had uh uh our attorney with us uh I it were probably done similar to what was done for the tower is that uh uh we will we will discuss the decision and we
will have our attorney generate a draft that will then be discussed and and uh you know approved or rejected whatever whatever the process is after that so assume this is probably going to be the same say don't want to have to type that
whole thing up but being the secretary right it's a good thing there's AI now right any other business no Cynthia oh I make a motion to close the hearing adjourn close second oh I
mean adjourn the meeting all in favor say I I I'll oppose no okay we're good until March whatever 26 26 26th