okay okay everything uh 6:30 I'm going to start the uh Zing Bo of appeals meeting off with the Pledge of Allegiance ALG the United States of America the for it stands one nation under God indivisible withy and justice for all Accord to Mass General law chap 38 section after this meeting is being recorded first hearing is a continued hearing of application of Timothy glesby applicant and jul craft owner for a special permit to convert a portion of an existing garage into the T accessory apartment containing 375 ft pursue with the zoning B article 9 section 9.54 proper is located at the 10 Hillside Road Westport math and the Shan uh Assessor map 88 Lots 169 170 so uh this is a continuation but the way we run all the hearings as we'll have the applicant come up provide what information is uh pertinent uh the board will then ask questions and then after uh the board is not asking questions I'll open it up to the public so and uh voting on this will be uh Cherry coutino barara Pono myself Roger manard constant Ski Ray Elias and Cynthia cwit I'm not for quoting no right am that right no you've got only 1 2 3 five you're right yeah I'm waiting for the next one all right yes and it requires a uh a majority a super majority voter four I of five so hi good evening uh your name and address uh my name is Lan GES I'm son I'm currently the contractor on the project we've converted the company over so um my information is now on the permit um and so first of all hi everybody um I want to say thank you this has been an ongoing situation that I have had to request multiple continuances for and I appreciate the patience and understanding in that um it's been a little bit of a difficult situation to get through um the Board of Health because there was an unknown septic issue when we started the project and that became clear once it went through to you guys so we actually do have a path forward now um because of the rain and everything we weren't able to perk it until last week so I do not have everything together to actually present to you this evening so I am requesting one more continuance I spoke to Lenny Potter today and we're probably about 6 weeks out to have everything approved through the Board of Health and conservation so I'm hoping that you will indulge me one last time in continuing this and um we can put it Forward however you know however long it seems reasonable so that we don't have to go through this particular process again um so I have the form and the check and I'm hoping that it would well the the other option is you can withdraw what Prejudice and what that allows you to do is you can then reapply at any time okay if if we were if you were either to withdraw or we were to vote on it then there's a two-year uh moratorium that you cannot reapply with uh but again and I'm just saying it's an option that uh that you know we can either work on a continuance this is like fourth this is fourth correct yeah I mean that's you know and every time we've done this it's always been we think we're going to be ready next month right and and matter of fact I and I remember even the first one uh when you said you know that you know you weren't quite ready he said it doesn't have to be next month you can schedule it 6 months from now mhm and you didn't want to do that so now it's like the fourth time Ood we we don't have anything that says he can't continue we just see uh I'm just saying that there's an option the downside of of that option would be that You' have to pay for a whole new application which is A500 instead of $100 continuance uh and if you're reasonably certain that it's going to move forward uh then I think you can just go with a continuance uh if if you have some idea of when you would like that continuance to be yeah so I am fairly confident now there really it it got we had thought there wasn't a difficult path forward before and then it got more complicated now we've gone through that and there there actually does seem that there's an Avenue for this but you haven't finished the perk yet no the perk is finished and it was favorable so that's so so with the ground table correct yeah so we know that it's it's it should be it should be manageable correct and we you know this new plan we met we had a discussion with the Board of Health last month and that's what what prompted Lenny to say okay we can move forward to the perk test now because we didn't want to disrupt the soil when we didn't we weren't sure that this is actually a way we could go so we were confident enough to do that perk the perk was done and it was it was good so um so I'm I'm feeling confident that we have an Avenue here now this is a new septic for both accessory and the house correct so we didn't know that the septic was under sized when we embarked on this cuz this was an existing property that we had the same use before um we just couldn't we had gutted it cuz it had a mold issue so at a previous renovation so when we went to redo it we couldn't prove that there had been a kitchen net so that's why it this was almost it it was almost like you know we thought it was sort of a routine procedure and then then it got flagged that that turns out the septic was UND siiz the whole time you know so it was one of those things that information kept coming our way that made it a little more complicated so it you know I'm I'm not interested in you know and using up people's time un unduly I but I I do feel if if you were open to it I really think this could be the final continuance um and I'd be willing to put it out you know two months to be sure um right I think in the first meeting we actually went through all of the a through requirements for um for an accessory apartment and the only thing that was left was uh the approval of the sub system by the health department so I I believe we've gone through all the other steps yep uh we're just waiting uh for uh approval from the the health department of of a and not that the actual septic system but the septic system design septic plan correct yes and that's what's being actively worked on now and the fact that we have a perk that has gone well you know and now they're working on a septic plan to submit so that's why I I spoke with Lenny today because I wanted to be sure how long he thought this would take so that I wasn't going to and then I would add on that to that to you know because there's always contingencies there's weather there's there's always things that come up that make things longer than they expecting to be certainly certainly so you know as as far as you know I'm concerned I'm willing to I'm willing to put this out to the end of the summer you know if if that's that's if that's a favorable favorable situation I just I wasn't exactly sure how often you guys meet so I didn't put a date on here that I was proposing I figured I would ask you um and see what made sense but I think I would I would like to go I would like it if we could do this continuance if were open to it um and I I feel good about the prospects going forward here and again I didn't I didn't expect to have this be such an ongoing issue and I apologize that it has been now uh for board members have all the board members been involved in all of the um deliber yes I have been you have been yeah you have been Joe you have been you're going to be gone gone so so what I have to make sure is that we have five members that have been through even even if it's just a continuation we still have to have the member present for that or they have to watch the video for two minutes saying we're continuing so but uh it's a whole lot easier if all of the members if at least five members have been present for all of the hearings uh so that when we if we were to approve the a continuation then we would potentially have five members that could sit on it m um understood uh so what you can do then is you can read off your request and then we we'll discuss whether or not we want to accept the request okay and reading off read off this yep Forum okay I L glesby requests that the hearing on my petition be continued until we'll pick a date you have to pick I understand that the deadline for making decision will be extended accordingly I also understand that given that this is the fourth request to continue this matter as the petitioners were not ready to go forward that a $100 fee will be assessed to be paid to town of Westport pursuant to the zoning board of appeals schedule of petition fees okay we have a request from the petitioner for a continuation discussion have any uh anybody have any I have no problem with it uh because uh this has not been primarily at their their fault this is unknown things happening in with the septic and water yeah I mean I I feel the same I mean we've had this issue before with with multiple continuances but in in in this case at least the petitioner has been here for every one of the of the continuances and not just been absent and and hope for the best uh so uh I don't have any any particular issue with another continu um we have to pick a date and uh you would just suggest at least two months yeah let's that's that should be fine I mean I I'd be willing to go a little further if that's more July or a we don't have anything scheduled in July and August yet just July 10th we have July 10th that's a little short that's only six weeks right but we had a I think six weeks is is probably like it that's maybe what it's going to take so I I comt going further I'd rather be waiting than be up because the next time you I'm not interested in doing it again I I completely understand I completely understand you don't want to pay another $500 so although if you started off and paid the 500 you'd probably much only to be there yeah um August sometime yeah 14th 21st uh what every anybody's availability for the 14's good with me the 14th would be good for me is it or is the 14th is okay the 21st is if he you're pretty confident of that you'll be ready for that I'm pretty confident not going to September I don't think so I well so where are we we're not even in June yet right so we're pretty close though assuming assuming 6 weeks would be okay the middle of July the middle of July right middle of July middle of August we're four weeks more that gives us about a month buffer 14 the month buffer I'm okay 14th okay with you con it's fine okay um I will make a motion then to Grant the continuance of the uh application of Timothy kesie for an accessory apartment until uh August uh 14th at 6:30 uh understanding that this continuance uh also uh pushes back the the deadline for the U uh for the decision which is which is which is what you requested I second that any discussion before we I have a motion and a second all in favor say I I I so it's uh that's approved uh so we will see you in August 14th okay good luck and hopefully hopefully we'll finally get this it away yeah me too you and me both um should I write this date on yes put that on there and sign it and make sure it's dated and she'll stamp it email you and your dad and if you know anything you have yeah yeah approve please let me know I will okay perfect all right thank you luck okay the second uh Petition of the evening uh six Wildberry way administrative appeal of opposed Properties LLC from a letter issued by the building commission on enforcement officer that States Attorney property and condominium is not allowed under condition Jo by 953 and 954 subject proper is located at 6 Wildberry way Westbard mass and Shan assess map 35 21 L um once again uh the same the same process I'll have the petitioner come up and provide whatever information he thinks is pertinent the uh board will then ask questions and after the board uh ask the completes their questions I'll open it up to the public uh again voting on this will be Jory coutino barbar Pono myself Roger Mard kin ski and Ray Elias and this also requires a a vote of four um to to to Grant the petition now before we start um okay uh I'm going to read a letter from from Ralph Su who's the zoning enforcement officer which prompted this this is um Ralph Su I am in receipt of advertisement for the list of the Tas accessory department at six Wildberry way for sale was a condominium as for the special Department ISS uh issued to Grant the construction of the structure in question you indicated that would be your son in 6B and yourself in six Wildberry way F turning the powerprint in a condominium is not allowed condition of West zoning by law rticle 953 this must be approved by the Westport zoning board of appeals uh that is I believe what prompted this this appeal now my name is Mark forer the attorney for J reposa uh he then gave me this uh letter uh he was also in agreement to sell the uh unit two uh I was hired by him about a year ago to convert this to a condominium he had planned to live in one and that first building was already almost completed the other one he just starting uh so I said I see no problem with that I've done a lot of conversions uh the property now is completely finished all the permits are done it's got two uh it's got two units one with three B one with two bedrooms uh septic excuse me unit one has three bedrooms and unit two it's a detached it's a detach can only have one bedroom that's all we approved we only approved one bedroom and that is the BW okay looking aware of that so you'd have to reduce it down to one bedroom and that was something that uh that he should have we we I believe at that point we start we uh he had to do a um a deed restriction I have not seen the deed restriction but the in the letter from Ralph ofosa it said it was in violation of 953 which relates to attached air 954 is one I assume he he was referring to yes and 954 uh my my belief was that and interpreting his letter was that the 954 paragraph G is the par he did he had an issue with any property that has been granted a special permit for detach accessory shall not be further divided unless all Zone requirement can be met uh regardless under chapter 183a in Massachusetts uh which is the legislation for Condominiums whether it's a two family converted to a condex or a 300 unit on three acres cted to from a p to contacts it does not divide the land it's just the ownership interest it' be similar to you adding your wife and then let say if you had six children to the deed it doesn't divide the land just the ownership interest uh I was not aware that there was Restriction G did did you read the decision that allowed him in the first place to to have an accessory apartment I have it here uh and it it says a five bedroomroom septic system has been approved of the board the main house is currently being constructed uh so on so forth this is the decision I believe it hasn't par that one that you just read hasn't sorry Mr chair may I uh help out this is attorney Blake he's attorney says in the decision that that section you just read in paren says four bedrooms in the main house and one bedroom in the accessory apartment and I'll also point out that 9.4 and 9.5 both say restricted to one bedroom so I don't know if youve actually read the bylaw itself I'm looking at paragraph four of that decision okay I'm looking at the uh 954 at the moment oh you got 94 yes maximum of one bedroom all right let me I wish I had my other paperwork here um I did not bring the U plot plan the other information unfortunately well I'll read part of the decision Vice chair Cino said that he he viewed the site and was shown the property lines he also stated that the notes provided by the board by the clerk indicate the health agent confirmed the approval of five bedroom septic four bedrooms in the main house and one bedroom in the accessory apartment all right bot only allows one bedroom and and a maximum of two people in the ex two people um I I can't verify mentally whether he has 41 or three and two but I thought the latter but the board of the permits have been signed off the sepic approved by the Board of Health everything's done so I'm assuming it was according to that but I can verify it I don't have that other paperwork it's in my office uh with that being said there's a possibility I could be there in a few minutes in fact if I could be contined to later this evening and you can proceed to the other party well let's discuss before we do that the overriding thing of of uh the legality of converting what we already approved as an accessory apartment into a condominium which is a whole different uh uh effort and is it really well and I don't want to I know uh attorney Blake has uh has sent us an email was his review of of our bylaw so uh attorney Blake would you would did care to summarize uh your findings on on this issue of condominium ising happy to uh Mr chairman in my opinion uh you under the under the special permit that was that was issued for a detached accessory apartment condominium ising the the detached building as you correctly point out would would number one change the ownership and under the bylaw the owners should have own both and it would also convert the accessory dwelling unit accessory detached accessory apartment into a primary use because it's no longer accessory to anything because it's now its own Standalone the town uh it's bylaw at article 7.1 uh states that in all districts no more than one D dwelling unit shall be built on any lot that of course is all is carved out by this detached accessory apartment uh special permit but once you've turned that into a condo as you've correctly pointed out you're changing the ownership and number one it no longer qualifies as having to have the owner um actually live in one of the units because now there there's not two unit there're two separate units and it it no longer becomes an accessory a dwelling unit it then becomes a primary dwelling it's two houses on one lot and I and I don't think that's Allowed by the in in my opinion it's not allowed by their Bible I I'm happy to share with you my my uh rationale if if you would like after you can send me an email I'm happy to send it over to you you want to take a look at it but I I just I I don't think you can do what you want to do I'm just reading the uh the Restriction first time I see it really I've never seen this dat restriction it wasn't attached to the D so it's a separate no it's it's recorded with the D my recorded the reg it's recorded it's recorded the reg but I did I did not and I'm not voting on this but you're wasting our time because you weren't prepared not much more I can say at this point uh without the plant that was recorded registering in my presence I can't confirm whether it's a one bedroom or two bedroom but it sounds like your it's listed on mls's two bedrooms which is against the rules to begin with it says right here it's two bedrooms we've already we've already granted a special permit for the for accessory apartment which can't be subdivided in our VW right that's part of our Bible that's more important at the moment than one bedroom or two bedroom well but dividing the prop the the lot would not be divided it's just change of of interest of ownership it's not changing the lot you still you're not getting uh half acre lot AC lot still an acre and a half or whatever the the the amount is on this lot but you're not changing the lot you're just changing the interest but now you're making it into two separate Prim housing units rather than a primary and an accessory which is which is a whole different well I think and we don't have it I'm assuming that Westport when you you wanted you allowed an accessory of P was probably for an inlaw apartment or maybe a rental income but either way you're going to have a separate family dwell dwelling in that building they not owner yes as long as the owner of the property is living in the other property right it's a whole different uh condominium is is entirely different than a primary residence within accessory they're entirely different well in a condominium though you still have owners living in them uh and if you have condominium generally you would have an owner who owns the property and then the people who own the inside of the house that's what a condominium is so and that's but that's not what our bylaw say so our bylaw says in the uh you can have an accessory apartment but the owner of the of everything has to live in either the accessory or the it doesn't have to it doesn't have to live in the primary but has to live in one of the uh of the build one of the structures and has to own all of the property and all the structures that's not what a condominium is under this proposal that you have uh right now uh who who is the owner of all the common property uh currently jrro post owns everything and if he sold unit 2 38 uh something percentage would be common area and the unit owner of one owns the difference and the common area the the condo owner only owns to the to the ceiling to the walls the floor interior and everything else is common area the yard the exterior of the building the plumbing Chas and that is intended to be owned by whom that's what I'm asking you pardon all all of that common that you just spoke common area is owned by own condos they are all owning of the common area by percentage of ownership under a homeowner association yes of of two people the home the condo association would be two people would be yes each condo would have a one trustee to represent them so you don't have you know one person living one and three another and have trustees overpowering so it works on one trustee needs to both have to act together and um it's based on square footage of the units so unit two is smaller and they have only 38% ownership the other unit owns the remainder of the common areas but they all share they all have one master insurance they have one well they have common fees and they all pay uh 250 a month for insurance and covering all the the bases and they go up and down each year depending on expenses but still what you're talking about is we have two separate structures which uh that um and that's and that isn't really Allowed by our bylaws according you know according to our current our attorney other than what we allow for as an accessory and apartment however you have right now currently several properties for sales conders in Westport how is it not allowed here elsewhere I can only speak to what we have here you're saying there's an identical situation that's being allowed uh there are currently six other properties there's lots of we do have legal condominiums in they were built as but they weren't built the back door of an accessory apartment they weren't accessory units they were built as Condominiums with the planning board's approval right a condominium complex would be planning we don't approve that some but a planning board through the planning Bo two different Road one the motel was our approval yeah but like you have the the Winding Lane right but that's that's was approved as a condo not as a single family dwelling with an accessory apartment if your client wanted a condominium he should have come to us with that request in the first instance not in the second instance of where we approved the accessory dwelling you you indicated I thought that that uh a year ago you said that one of the uh intended units a year ago was planned as a condominium that never came up he had he had bit approved by he had these uh approvals and everything from from this port and he had the first building framed it was roughed out you know was up that point he was just down the foundation on the second one when he hired me uh it was still kind of early in the like wi Mid Winter and he continued construction I did the the the paperwork and we had uh uh an engineer do the plot plants and everything else and we just went forward as as is right but when they you or I'm not sure if it was you who came before us before no this is my first time he had planned to build this unit so he could live in it retire in it and and then you know he's looking forward to his future yeah but then this what we were told was that he was going to sell the main unit the three bedroom or four bedroom unit and his son was going to live the accessory we said that somebody who owned the property had to live in the live on the property and he said his son is living there and we said but it's owned by an LLC we actually changed our bylaw because of this this case in itself and he had to go back to his attorneys and have his son be become part of the LLC in order for us to approve it so if his intention was always to do a condominium that is what he should have presented to us a year and a half ago no I don't know I can't speak for his prior intention or attorney I'm going to re review your options obviously one of the options is we can continue with this and vote on it um if you don't think that you have the only information or or lacking information or need to research forther you can ask for continuance just like the the previous petition or you can ask for uh to uh uh to be to withdraw without prejudice so that then you could then reapply once you know once you actually you know have all your ducks in order those are the three options I'm not telling you which one you should do I'm just advising you that you have three options and the cease and assist order will be maintained and the property is under contract right now just so the board knows so now he also indicated that you could um withdraw without prejudice that would be a request we would not have to approve it uh so be very clear so the other option would be you withdraw it with prejudice which means you can't come back for two years uh right that's correct and if the board disapproves of this condominium he has to if he wants to keep the whole property or sell the whole property that's op he's going to have to then sell it as a primary residence with an accessory apartment which is what we approve and he's going to have to sell it as a primary accessory with an accessory apartment with only one bedroom because that's all that we approved and that's all that's in the bylaw and you can't have more than two people that it's meant for like you said in-laws if you have somebody that that that needs Assistance or also allowing for a rental property so that you can stay on the property that was the intent of the bylaw to keep people from having to move out of Westport just because they cannot afford to you know or or their family member cannot afford to uh to remain in the you on the premises and those intents are written right in the Bible and those intents are written right in the byla they T um all right so if I withdra with prejudice it's one option or you the vote and cut off the Goose's head the third option was without prejudice right you can request to withdraw without PR okay that allows you then to reapply model if you want and we have to vote on whether to approve that okay if it's granted all right let's let's do that lad then if we can what's uh I'll request a withdraw without prejudice if I can and you vote on that whether to accept it am I correct we we vote on that and then if we don't do that we can continue with something else okay so you are requesting to withdraw without predes yes and the season desist continues I understand uh any any discussion can you explain exactly what that will mean in terms of I mean it seems like the whole basis for this petition is legal um so withdrawing without prejudice what does that then bring how can it be brought back in a way that well what then I would assume then our our lawyer here can then you know you can go back to obviously the petitioner and decide if they want to look at uh if there's other avenues you know of uh you know you know what they can do with the property or uh spend more time with the BW so that they actually understand understand what they did right what they did wrong and and uh if there's some way they can do what they want and still fit within the bylaw it it gives them time then to uh uh to decide how they want to proceed without having to worry about a you know a two-year delay or an outright uh uh rejection yeah it just gives them time to yeah to it I understand that but I just don't understand what they could possibly come back with no that's that's not our right there's obviously some information that you do not have tonight so I would support you leaving without prejudice and doing the research and maybe you don't have an option but maybe you will find one but you should have all your information I would support that myself and I I I'm I'm sure that uh attorney Blake can provide you with a written information detail of of why he believes that conding is is not allowed in the in the bylaw so that you can then uh you know verify that uh and see how you want to move forward and maybe you don't maybe you just back away from it I mean that's that's up to the petitioner he still he still has a accessory apartment with one bedroom no maybe to they're saying it's too and it's they're saying it's too we you know that's that's another thing that maybe the zoning enforcement offic should look at and there should not be an occupy permit and again the owner has to live in it so U you know there's a there's a lot of issues that that I think you and the positioner need to resolve but yet they're saying that this was approved by the board of help they they only look at at the SE if the septic is fine that's that's their job that but that's it right that's their job okay it's five it's yeah it's five bedrooms and they if they have they decided to split it differently from what we had told them to do right now I I believe that uh he could choose to just sell the whole thing as a unit to somebody else who would use it legally as an accessory apartment right as that's why we that's why we required the deed restriction so people who are buying the property knows there is restri the use of the other building is what it's supposed to be okay you did you want to make a motion to I will make a motion to um excuse me could I just ask one question first before we do that uh we have number of people in the audience I have no idea if they're here related to this or not so I thought it might be in everyone's best interest I think she's even if with just just to get some idea of what their concerns are so he I'll leave it up to the attorney U again I don't know how many of these people are here for um for this particular petition but it it may be us SCH for you and your and your and a petitioner to understand right what what you know if there's any push back from uh from Neighbors or how they feel about it so that you know if you want to go forward you know what you're up against so you okay with that yes okay so I'm going to open it up to the floorida then uh B's going to bring over a microphone if you come up to um uh and again you can you know whatever you want to uh uh say about this uh propose uh uh change uh just your name and address um so go ahead don't fight about it come to the microphone I have to go to the mic yes I'm just curious is to name and address first name and address uh for Wildberry way name Cynthia binkov okay thank you I'm just curious as what it's first generated for is some the owner living there which is not happening and then they're allowed this apartment I own 58 Acres behind it so if he's allowed to do this I want to see the cond Condominiums like how many Condominiums I can put on my 58 Acres mhm and you can work with the planing board on that yeah but it's like how is this able to happen along with the wetlands that's being exposed to all of this time I've I've been we actually developed the property originally the road wasn't there we were like with J Raposa one of the first ones there we actually built the road and I like we've watched this develop which has been fine but now it's like it just seems like the wetlands is being exposed there were supposed to be um what what's it called the behind your your development the water table it it's gone like what it did so I'm just wondering what is going on here and how all of this is happening with like if if he comes back and is able to do this then we all can do it well uh first I'll answer a couple of your questions first U was it couple when we approved the uh the accessory apartment he met all the criteria for the accessory apartment which means that they had to have an approved septic system from the Board of Health with him living there and and he's never lived there well that was that was that was part of the decision and that was agreed upon by the petitioner now we are not the enforcement agent the zoning enforcement officer is the one who enforces this so if you have an issue it's the zoning enforcement officer that that you need to contact but the the petitioner met all the requirements for an accessory apartment when they came before before us uh on a on a previous petition we don't look at well we actually do look at property lines but we but we have a through J requirements for allowing somebody to have an accessory apartment and and they they met all of those and they signed a a deed restriction saying that somebody would live there an owner would live there and it would only be one bedom but it's not an own but that's that's enforcement and that's like I said it's that's why that's been approved to date okay but it's not happening right that's why the building inspector s issued decease and desist because he was not complying with or the laws of the town all right anyone else want to get up and I'm going to introduce myself um really quickly I'm Amanda Dart from 16 Wildberry way um me and my husband we went through all the procedures to try to get build our home 3 years ago we wanted to bring our children to a beautiful little neighborhood it now to me it breaks my heart a little bit because obviously the land uh the two premises that he has built has brought all of our house values down a um we still have a 30-year mortgage on ours you know and I look at it and it it kind of slowly becomes a little bit we wanted like country setting and now I know we're on the main you know right off the main road but it's just making everything very commercial now you know and just the thought of a condominium it seems just so not we moved out of a city to come to a country the country lands and it just changes the whole atmosphere you know I I put my kids on the bus I look at these two tiny little homes that if he had just built one bigger home he could have sold it made good profit and again I'm just looking at bigger is not always better and more and more and more and it's just thirst that's all I have to say is I just feel like there's no need for this thank you anyone else uh Victor abat Ted wberry way uh I'm very familiar with the bylaws because when this happened I read and I do remember the letter we got last year saying that there was going to be you know the the adjoining unit had to be owner occupied which I thought meant the owner had to stay in the bigger house and rent out the smaller but if you're saying they can go back and forth it's fine but uh I do know that the house was already rented out before they got the building inspection approved the vacancy for the smaller you you there's people renting the house cuz they got in a a a car wreck and I asked who was it and they said the the new guys who were in house one I was like I didn't know people were in house one now I should it's a small street I'm home a lot there's only like nine houses on it but I keep to myself but uh I did read those bylaws and it's very specific of why your board would approve the unit it was uh for El for old people or sorry know I'm old uh you know to to stay in to to be able to stay where they are and to provide more in you know income that's that's a great thing but I do believe like my neighbor said you know it really doesn't go with the rest of the neighborhood but that's fine you own the land that's fine but rules are rules I was in the service for 20 20 years so rules are very important to me we got this note a year a year year ago it progressed forward forward and now it seems like uh less than a week after the second dwelling was approved for occupancy it was for s so yeah uh whatever you guys decide uh like she said but that's the reason why there's a season assist order yeah you guys are doing your job thank you there's Z Enforcement Officers that's good they're doing a good job I me because you know I'm all for a guy to make a buck but when you come forward you're supposed to do what you're supposed to do and they asked to do do some something and it just seems too convenient that it didn't go in that direction awful quick so I'll let you guys uh do your thing I glad you had had us here and uh I'm out that's good okay thank you anyone else okay we've the public now for your your motion I would make a motion for you to withdraw without prejudice so that you can research the whole project and get that information that you did not have coming in to the meeting tonight I don't really think we need to uh include all that we just okay just grant or you make a motion to Grant the the petition the the uh without and what are the consequences if that's not excuse me and what are the consequences if that is not um then then we'll move on to something else so we have a motion uh that's one of the concerns of withdra without prejudice is that and we've had we have some right now uh that we've allowed that and they just sit there and nothing ever happens uh so in this case I think something has to happen because right now we clear violation so it's a clear violation and whether we approve the the uh uh the the petition to uh to withdraw or or not it's going to be the same situation yeah well I'm trying to not really uh helping or hurting well in my mind I think if someone's coming who files a petition to come across with us should come here prepared and this gentleman was not prepared and I no it doesn't seem like he was given the correct information and didn't I mean I when this first came up the first thing I did was to make sure that the town registered the DED restriction and it's there and if I was somebody representing somebody that would be the first thing I would do is to check to see if there's a dection which there should have been and I would believe this gentleman should have done that and should have seen that that's I'm not a voting I don't vote I'm not voting here I'm just saying that I think that um Coming unprepared is unprofessional it also just doesn't seem like there's any good faith all around no I will second a motion any more discussion before we are both units rented now no one is rented and one is uh under contract I I thought they were both empty so I don't know does does the sun live one one unit is under contract I don't believe the other one is occupied but I could be I believe our our our neighbors said they W first yeah first one unit a is rented and Unit B is under contract okay we have a motion and a second all in favor say I I I all opposed no opposed sure okay that that uh that fails so we are not going to accept your uh your request to uh withdraw no not without prejudice without prejudice you could still ask to withdraw right yes or continue or we could go forward tonight and act on it Pro it or he can continue he can request the continue V on continuation my Reason by the way is because it's pretty clearcut uh and U so unless something new jumps into The Fray here um to me it's not worth worth it much I great Jerry I will withdraw you're going to withdraw with prejudice with okay then I will make a motion to Grant the approval of withd drawing with trees in other words you can't now come back for two years two years for the same thing but let me ask again um the consequences of that where it's still sort of in in motion um and that it could be brought back in two years where does that leave everybody Le everybody under aon's assist he still he still has to to comply revert that building into a one bedroom and the other one if it's rented well he's supposed to be living there so he's got he could be living in the he could be living in the one bedroom that's what we were told we were told that he was going to rent the large house and his son was going to live in the in the accessory dwelling unit and that and then his son wasn't a member of the LLC which he then went and we let him right we gave him we gave him a day to come correct that with with with uh Maria uh and he did and so he can live he or his son or anybody in the family who own anybody who is anybody who is a member they have to be a 25% member of the L LC is able to live there so what's the difference in the outcome if we say approve or deny this request and then well just vote to completely deny even if even if we were to go and and uh deny the whole And Delay the whole thing he can go back in two years anyway right so what I see he has the option he has the option of selling the entire thing to somebody and that's what that leaves him open to do but he has to comply with your rule of only bedroom of that unit so he has some work to do that's not how I understand is constructed I'm sorry yes so essentially by withdrawing with prejudice he's essentially dismissed his appeal he just dismisses the appeal and so I mean could he come back in two years he can't come back and appeal the order that he's under certainly provide some other petition to the board I don't know what it would be right modify the special permit although I mean he could come back and after a variance yeah yeah that's correct yeah which would be his probably his only other Avenue yeah but but but he could yeah because he's essentially dismissing his appeal so Ralph's order but without coming back at all he could s sell the whole unit as a one parel and and someone else would go on and abide by the rules Y and if he's not abiding by the rules the building inspector is enforcement officer will issue another cease and assist okay now we've had that I made a motion do I have a second second we have a second discussion all in favor say I I I all opposed that's unanimous so you're your appeal is has been uh your request to withdraw with prejudice has been granted right thank you good luck okay um Okay the third you can you want to learn about the pill Road what we have another petition kind of clears the room [Music] up we're kind of lonely here them up for now you can move up you can get like front row instead of the cheat seats they can't leave I get the keys the third petition is U application of James Colin and Jana Johnson is that yeah oh today's for a special purpose convert a portion of an existing structure Department containing 86 6 sare ft resum z b article 95 954 property is located at uh 795b fill Road Westbard mass and showing assessors map 38 lot 13A uh once again uh voting on this will be Jerry coutino Barbara p myself R manard kiny and and Ray Elias and this requires a a vote of four to to Grant so uh same uh same ground rules will allow you to provide one information you think is pertinent we'll ask questions there's nobody left in the audience if there were they could ask questions uh so the floor is yours uh well some of this may be redundant to the packet we gave you but I'll go through it yeah maybe that's easier um so we bought the piece of property um in August of 2021 um September defer to my my wife's Inc count I'm an architect she's the hisor probably yeah she probably is the historian as well so uh in in the fall of uh 2001 uh it was granted as part of a flexible Frontage approval so it's one of those pork chop kind of lots of which uh we have a 50 foot Zone that comes in as part of the whole approval of this thing we had to go through the Conservation Commission and planning and so we presented to both both of those commissions and got approval for essentially the site has two buildable pieces on it there's a there's a setback from the Westport River there's a setback associated with another stream there's also a setback associated with Pond and so when you're all done so you mostly wet land and and we had to swing a road around out of the way but what we ended up doing was having kind of two buildable pieces of land about a th000 feet away from each other but still one lot still one lot and we are not allowed to subdivide the lot or ever do anything ever again to right that's part of the allowance through the flexible front the flexible so we we have a an open field the rest of it is heavily wooded we had the right to cut um some of the the land at the western edge for the house the intention here was to build an art studio um and a uh Workshop as one building that would be the building on the the what would be the Eastern end of the property and about a th000 ft away to build a modest house not more than three Bs the original idea was to build this all at once um and then we started to get into the actual development of the road and the underground electrical and Co hit and we build the bond and yeah well we're have well we have a funding strategy is slightly different the original idea was was we I I I work in Boston we have a house outside of Boston when when I retire was to to basically move down here fulltime and then we build the house we'd build the the the studio and that would all be finished and then we'd basically downsize move everything out of the house and sell the house so it all was very simple um until the money situation has gotten into a situation where it's really difficult to now fund the house without actually selling the other house to get the funding for the house and if we started to build the house right now I want it to be really low impact it it we have an architectural firm that is all kind of Net Zero low carbon so this house takes a little while to design and it actually takes a little while to build longer than might be normal we're trying to have it basically Net Zero and so it's going to take probably with the design and the actual construction of it at least two probably three years oh it's going to take a while W the Barn's taken almost two years well that's cuz I'm the architect should have gotten a better better architect but in any case so the uh so the barn is so the idea was okay if we could get an allowance to for the detached apartment and we met all that criteria which I go through then we'd have the opportunity to live in the apartment while we're getting the house built and it kind of is the interim thing that makes that all work and then quite frankly if we could get that approval there's something to be said as we get older and everything else like that to have the flexibility of for all the other reasons that other people have talked about to have this adjacent um like a caregiver or maybe our daughter doesn't need a place to live so what happens is if we if we go through everything it's it's 11 acres of land we're hundreds of feet away from any of the abuts um we we have and I I think you've got plans but I have bigger ones here if you want but it's it just so happens because it was designed originally as a um well I don't see this but the piece of property goes quite a bit out that way and the house lot would be weighed out out here so but all of our butters on this side were 160 ft away this way 175 ft there 130 ft there so the setbacks are pretty significant um we we have a situation where if I were going to go to I'll give you what the what the base drawings are now and what happens is the lower floor of the building has these three big base associated with the idea in retirement is my wife's a woodworker I like to maybe putter around on things was to be able to literally if we wanted to renovate a sailboat to be able to bring it into these Bays um to be able to do that so this is a big shop and the upper level was kind of an open design studio with a staircase up and restroom that was already there so we already have a well we already have approval for the septic system it's already been put in and approved and and uh from that uh basis the problem is is if we wanted to go in and say we want an accessory use what we have to do to it is take out one more is basically put a kitchen in that doesn't we got it well it's there but what basically it does is it says take the office make it make it the back the bedroom you already got the restroom take this part of the Open studio and simply build a kitchen there and then that's it and then we have basically a living dining room kitchen and the one bedroom but now did you said this is already built th this part of it for all intensive purposes we're almost done right we built the entire outside we've built built most of the inside and what we would have to do if if you were kind enough to Grant approval was we'd have to go back in here and basically fit out a kitchen now the plumbing stack is already right there anyway and the design studio had a sink there so all the plumbing is there it's an entirely we want to be off it's en there's no gas this is all new construction all new construction okay I I have a very basic question sure uh why can't you just go to the uh building department and apply for building permit we have a building permit for this right but but as a workshop you do yes without a kitchen and what I'm saying is uh there is no other house there is no other dwelling on this property it's going so can you explain well there going to be yeah so but there isn't now no there isn't now so this this was a bit of the dilemma here a little bit because we could we could we have every right to have this as a house that's correct but we only can have one house right yes what we would then have to do is when when I designed the house and pull the permit for the house nobody should give me the permit because I already have a house on the plug then I'd have to come back and say well I want to make this house that I already have disappear correct and now ask you no but then I would accessory to the other house that exists correct so I talked to um Ralph about this because that was a way to do it and you got his originally he said that maybe that's what we should do and then he had it for I don't know almost two months and then came back and said no no no we should do it this way wow and so I I don't know exactly why other than maybe he just cuz I was concerned whether you can you can grant an accessory to something that doesn't yet exist that's that's a problem and then I heard somewhere that this has been done before in the town so I we're perfectly happy to to figure this out however we want to what we are trying to do you can see what we're trying to do we just we've got 11 acres of land we've got a building there all I need to do is put a kitchen in we can live in it for three years while we're building the house if we had built the house first which maybe we should have done it would be no issue because then we could come to you and say we'd like to make well then then when we built the other thing if we wanted to make an accessory we come to you and it we would sense but we because we built it in the reverse you H the wrong AR well yeah you H the well yes also is that Jim's going to do some of the stuff because he's very handy so the idea was he could have his shop in that and we to facilitate the building of the second door plus the other thing is this is halfway out and so to be able to to start to finish all the landscape and everything else on your way to the farther part of the site made more sense than you know in other words finish the out part and then drive by a construction site the other way and if we got into the electrical it made more sense to get the electrical energized as you went out and a whole bunch of other things so whether we did it in the right sequence or not this is the the the I mean this is why we're here is to basically say can we put a kitchen in there because I think that's the difference it I don't even think actually to get down to it it's can we put an oven in it an oven at a range and can somebody sleep in it because that's literally the idea that it's a an artist Workshop there's nothing that says we can have a refrigerator and a microwave and a dishwasher and we've already got approval for all the septic is already been approved there's already a there's already the you know this parking is there all so if I go down the list of all the things that I'm supposed to have I've got those in Spades other than I don't have to house that it's too but it's there it's going to be there well you say that but who knows maybe it isn't right you run out of money and you're never build it so then what we would have to do is then say what then we have then this becomes the house you have an accessory to nothing to nothing and that's that's what but how could we ever build the house like if we if we made it be like the house the barn be the house now how could we build the house we just did one we couldn't do it we just yes you could we just did one a month ago on Sanford Road they there's a house they've been living in in that house for years the house did not qualify as far as we were concerned uh as an accessory simply because of size and potential of add than so we worked on uh and they have no other house but they want to build the house down by the water this is almost exactly the same situation ex they had plans for it and we just did have see any plans yeah no we'd have to well no because they're here for a different thing yeah but I'm not ready we're not ready to put the plans in for a building permit and stuff like so what well let me ask a question you said you could have continuance could could you literally say we want a continuance on this issue and and we're not going to come back to you for two years or whatever the heck it would be and when we come back we're coming back actually to take this building to reclassify this building as the accessory so we can pull the building permit for the for the I that wouldn't that wouldn't suit your purpose because in the interim you wouldn't be legally living there what happens no but what happens if we said this is the house well yeah you mean go and get a permit which is what I'm saying we modify this permit correct and we modify this permit and for all intents of purposes at least for the time being we have now waved our right to build any house another house on that thing so we're risking attorney BL is there any issue with with um Ian you know the whole thing with an accessories firment is that you have a house and an accessory access like the other so if they if they assign if they want to live in this as the house can then later come back and build a house and then call and and and swap it and say that's the house this is the as long as it meets all the requirements as an accessory that's what we I think they can you would be down you'd be downgrading the house to an access long as you meet all the requirements this is an access but but but but wait but like what you could what you could do is when you decide to build a house we're going to say oh you can't build two house you already have a house so you can't build two houses so you you have one of two things the that unit has to conform with the accessory apartment regulations which I think you're already doing talk well well assuming that applies to the accessory dwelling unit I just want to say I'm going to make that the accessory dwelling unit and I'm building a house you would get a permit or you can decommission that and make that back into you can pull the kitchen out pull the kitchen out then you don't have then you you don't no longer once your kitchen is out you don't have a house anymore that's the kind of the definition it back to the way it was originally exactly and then at any time in the future you could then make it an accessory by putting the kitchen back in correct by coming becoming again yeah as long as it meets the requirements literally have to take did I like no you don't have to long as it long if you build it so it conforms well the problem is you have to build it so it conforms with a regulation of a house of a of a of accessory apartment no this accessory apartment which may change but I don't think it's going to get I mean this one yeah I don't think it's going to get smaller we're going to always say it's 900 square fet right we're never is like 8 if it got stronger only including the second floor yeah I'm only including the second floor no but the but the bottom floor is not that's Workshop that could never be included well okay why because it's our Workshop no no but what about you sell a property somebody else comes is I I knock all those walls down I I put four bedrooms in it's heated down there right yeah so let this is fair let's talk about this this is and that's the reason not only well not only is it heated but this building is the lower part of this building is is as higher performance building is built in Westport it's super insulated the SL floor slabs insulated it's thermally broken it it it hang on I requested that I could do my wood turning in a warm thing and I worked in a in a wood work a furniture shop for a while and they were heated and so this was like my workshop this is my time to turn so no but you see what we have to beern it's not necessarily how you want to use it when we approve a special permit it goes with the property forever so when you sell the property somebody goes in there and says man I can put five bedrooms in here well could you put like a well no because because the septic because the septic but still the is only if if someone wanted to do that I can't I can't prove they can't all I can tell you is that if they did they're nuts because you three big open Bays we got three big open Bays these These are custommade doors that are all insulated they can lock back in they form seals associated with it you get into the inside of the thing that's the upper thing it's a big W you get into the lower piece all the windows are high so that you can they don't conform to benches underneath it so put benches underneath it if you made these into bedrooms somebody would have to go in and change the ESS requirements for the door somebody would have to dig up a 6 in high concrete slab to put a bathroom downstairs with slab on gra I but but you're right if they had if they were willful enough and had enough money they could do that they' be crazy to do it they should build an addition to the well that's what well that's what I'm almost wondering it's like so I I think what Roger is saying is that you should get a building permit as that is your primary dwelling and when you want to build your Dreamhouse you're going to have to decommission that as a dwelling because we're going to have issues with the fact that it could actually be more than one bedroom perhaps I mean perhaps and it's possible so the the the worst case scenario is when you go to build your your house or no actually when you go to get the occupancy permit of the house because you can you can still be living in that until you have the occupancy permit of your house you'd have to decommission that and the way we would decommission that it was pulling out the kitchen I'm not even really sure we'd have to do that because as long as it meets all the requirements as an accessory apartment right but you but you're concerned that I'm concerned but but there are ways of but but because I didn't know exactly uh what he just showed us and what we have done and what we will probably always continue to do is the restrictions right and therefore which would be fine say you can't have more than one bedroom you can't have more than two people in this structure we and we' be hard absolutely fine with these restri and and I and now that you described this I mean it would take a humongous effort it would be easy it be cheaper to BU another building add a bedroom yeah the lighting is as good as this lighting is here the one thing we do not want to get caught in it would be better not to do any of this is we can't get into a situation where somebody says in decommissioning the building make it a really bad building so nobody could be thought to make it a house right because if then you came back in and said okay I'll let you have the apartment here but uninsulated the lower floor uninsulated you'd be a little bit like oh come on we spent all this money to build a really good Sustainable Building the last thing we want to do is make it less sustainable and and and rip out a bunch of perfectly good stuff just so it would make somebody hard to do an illegal thing later there's a point where it's a little bit like really right so I the deed restrictions all that stuff we have no other than some other folks we didn't buy 11 acres of land in the middle of nowhere for the purposes of becoming a developer W is not in the middle of nowhere no I grew up in for River so I know I I say that more fin they have fkin Donuts you know so they have MCD yeah so uh so this is more I mean I appreciate you taking so much time after all the time you've already spent on others but it it was more an issue of how do you how do you maneuver through this thing and look if somebody comes back and says you can't this is too complicated build the house as fast as possible and just occupy it the way you've got it and don't even try that that's okay too it's just it would be convenient for us it would be much much easier over this threeyear period of time to be able to use this for to to to live in during that inter if that was possible because a lot of too what when Jim's designing this is sort of like his thing to do in retirement and to be able to be close to the contractor so that things don't happen without him not there changes yeah especially if you're up in Boston was like well just to tell you the contract that we have down here is better than anybody at work I'm just going to now uh I should have done this in the beginning but uh I'll read the letter that prompted this from Ralph Suza who's also the Building Commissioner yes it says J M Collins have review the re Revis plans for the workshop structure which is PL you have in front of us on your property at 795b Pin Hill Road it has been determined the change in plans would create a detach accessory Department which is what you're here for uh which is allowed by article 953 detached accessory Department in order to achieve this it will require a special permit issued by the board of appeals as for the rur bylaws article 953 so that's that's the pl for this but again I you know why why you couldn't live in this as an accessory apartment again assuming that it meets all the regulations you know the a through J requirements as an accessory apartment and then build the house and and then the house as long as when you're saying accessory apartment primary just want to ask you a question when you say accessory appartment you talking about legally approved by us no no I guess no I guess right now the only thing we can do is you can you can live in this as a house primary residence y you got a bedroom and bathroom and is that going to make it be that all of a sudden we can't build the house no because then you'll get a building permit and before you get your occum you permit to build to live in your dream house turn that back in you you have to either you come before us and you and it meets the criteria of an accessory dwelling unit so you should read the rules make sure it's the right amount of square feet one bedroom I think on paper it looks like that and then you would say okay before I get my op to prepar for the my dream housee I need to get this allowed as an accessory dwelling in so there's two ways or or decommission it as an accessory drawing unit then you can do one of two you can actually do two things you can take you can not you can take the bedroom away or you can take the kitchen away you can have that's assuming right that's assuming that you needed to decomm right but if you build it under our current restrictions of what an accessory apartment is is one bedroom 900 900 square ft and that you assure us that the the the stuff downstairs could never be used but we have a de restriction so that prevents that right then there's no problem okay you know the worst case scenario is that in 3 years from now we've decided that an accessory dwelling unit can be a, but that's okay we still fall within it but I don't think we're ever going to the risk of us ever saying that now we're going to change our bylaws to say that an accessory dwelling apartment can only be 700 sare ft it's not we just changed it to make it I have a more uh uh basic concern and that is that if we were to go forward to to consider this as an accessory apartment uh right now we are violating what we've been told over over again that you can't have an accessory apartment without a principal primary thing don't you can't do that so therefore I I'm still saying you go get a building permit to make this into a legal primary house whatever size you want but you want to keep it even if we already have a permanent house on there though you don't have a no you're missing hang on you don't have a per there multiple steps this has to be the permanent house until we try to build another house right when we try to build another house we're going to go in and we're going to say we want to get rid of the house we have so to speak right and make it either an accessible a detached uh accessory unit and you either say yes or no to that or we turn around and we say okay if you say no to that we'll take the kitchen out and it goes back to the way it was originally there's nothing that says we can't have a separate building on the land that isn't a residence correct live in Westport so you can do whatever you want anyway so the the bigger thing though that we'll never get away from is the and I I'll use it term probably the wrong term but the attractive nuisance of having built a building so good that the lower floor is is it's is habitable in a high degree is always going to be out there whenever we come back yes right and so unless somebody buys the idea nobody in their right mind would try to convert that thing to a bigger house I mean it's just a mean that that is one of the things that we we could do that what would the one of the things we've always considered is how much effort would it take a person to make this from a w b other than the fact that we you know a deed restriction which which solves a lot of the problems but even then we say okay but still somebody really wanted to just put up another wall put you know and make beds yeah you're long way from that I mean we are a long way from that you made it really really really difficult it's very idiosyncratic for what it's built for but if somebody said is it insulated we'd say yes if somebody say yes if you had an infite amount of money you could do anything yes so which we look at it say what you know you know what you know what would a real realistic well but you'd have to get more septic you have to yeah you just saw the last does that your guidance and so it sounds like that would be the reasonable way to do this well almost like the only way course of action is to build this as aable unit yeah because we can't approve an accessory apartment without the other thing not the other thing cuz nothing ever says you're ever going to build the other thing no I understand you run out of money you're going to live in this forever right got it I hope that's not the case but can I can I just I need help my head she's worried no I'm not worried I I it sounds like everything's okay I just want to understand the the steps so if we make we we we go who do we go in front of we go to the building permit and say we want to make this we go to the building inspect bar first house we want to we want to reull a billing permit to this be a permanent to house permanent house and then and then if a month from now we want to start doing the building of the house you can do that right how do we do that with and still live in you can you you can build whatever you want don't worry about it until you get an O permit so we can apply for a building permit because it's on the drawing of the original yep we can how can we do how can we build a get a building permit for something when we already have a permanent house on it how are they going to let us have a building permit for another permanent house that's what I don't get like why are they going to allow us to do that you can build it but we're not going to give you an OP permit right yeah but that is it is convoluted or if Ralph isn't willing to issue it then you come in and say for this special permit and ask cuz then you will at least have a a you'll have a plan you will begin construction sort of sort of like the last one they had a house and then they said they and it was built and they had an occupancy permit and they wanted to build an accessor or didn't even have an ACC I'm not sure what it was but then they wanted to build it and we said sure as long as it the requirement and that you know you live on one of them so if if for some reason Ralph says no you can't have another building per you already have a house in the property you'd come in and say to us for a special permit I want to make this my accessory dwelling unit and it fits building that well and then we would have okay so if we we had come here with an original billing permit as the permanent house for the barn we had that already and he but he said he couldn't give it to us we had already applied for it and he said then we wanted to start building then that's when we would talk to you so we only talk to you when you want to build a new house when you have we try to get the building per you have two struct two dwellings on that lot or at least can we like can we always revert it back to the barn the way we have approval for already like say say we've got the permanent House of the barn cuz we got the him to approve it and and now we have it we're living in it and then we go and we get a building permit and they say no and then we come here and you say no can we always take the stove out and say now you have to let us do it right because it's not there's no violations like because it's because it's going right back to what you originally a work no one's going to question it then this isn't really a barn like because we have the original things that were approved we've actually done that previously where somebody had a structure and we said take the out and it's no longer an accessory okay so and and we no one can question that because we that's our original thing okay that's all I just like getting says in order I'd be worried too because it's a lot of money to do this but I I I think you have Avenues and the first one is you know yeah the only the only Avenue obviously we don't want to be is I don't want to be in a situation where somebody comes in and says the first building you built too well it's always an attractive nuisance will never let you do anything with that yes because then there's a situation of it's like okay but if I built a really bad thing it was impossible to You' feel good but if I built a really super sustainable thing it's it's so more what what you're left with though is is you don't need them this this uh this this petition is relevant yeah yeah right we go forward with your worst case scenario you can't is you have to Grant un well this I'm a little bit it's okay maybe the this is what I thought and I was a little bit surprised when I'm not criticizing Ralph at all because I think he was trying to help was when he said go this route because I I was sort of like well how do I get an accessory to something I haven't done yet now maybe if we have the plans and everything if you had you were building this and you had the plants all already approved for the other right you might feel about that then we could access then we could make it an accessory to this like if you had if you came to us and you said how long is the building permit open for six months oh it's only six months but so you got to start yeah then you can keep it open for right so let's say you had a whole plan you did your job and you made the whole plan and you put the found yeah it is she's pulling away yeah and you put the foundation in and then stopped for 3 years that would be okay yes but you don't have a plan so this is the best case scenario is to make this your primary and the worst thing that could ever happen is that we you would have to revert back that to an a artist studio by simply taking the story is okay which is what you wanted anyway anyway so that would be okay the other way we could do this is just delay putting the kitchen in you just delay we go with a t we get the no we get the architect camper we get we get the architect to work better faster the architect designs that the house and and we put a permit and you put a trailer no no no hang on we we designed the house we put a permit in for the house where we we commit to a foundation plan all those kinds of things and then once we're all committed and you know we're absolutely committed to do this you know exactly what it is Ralph knows exactly what it is we've got the septic already approved everything else like that there's no risk to you folks that you're that we kind of mead to you in a place that we're not going to go then the question would be okay could Now we move can we move it you still might not be able to do that though until the building is actually built but you said this thing is going to take two to three years to build do you want to be living in this without a refrigerator and a stove and technically I don't think You' be living in anyway I don't think we're that's why I said 10 no but even if you're out of stove I don't think you can actually sleep in a building that's not uh legally allowed well just make sure you don't put an oven in the new one uh until until you're ready every everything else is opposes just make sure you get an oven and put wheels on it so you can move it around we'll put it halfway between the two all right well thanks folks I'm sorry to but my concern I don't I don't think we're finished yet because U my concern is that uh I don't want to just let this float out there um because uh to approve it uh we are actually going against what we have legally been told all along so I believe uh that um we should deny this yeah application right now I'm going to tell applicate the same thing I told them they have options yeah they can continue they can withdraw or they can allow us vote on it if we vote on it and we vote against it it's too you know I what we I would have thought we would I I would think we would want to withdraw it withoute without prejudice so that we can come back whenever whenever seems like the right time to come back when we've got it somehow in a place that you that is approvable so as if we were never here and potentially never we never saw yeah you may not you may love the space and you don't want a bigger house problem is all of West watch access apartment then yeah then there's no reason to ever come back you may never come back and if you do come back then by then you'll have all the plans you'll have everything okay no that would make sense and we'll all be 3 years older well may we may not be the only me nervous well the only thing for sure is that Barbera won't be here bar won't be here today's her last meeting no I'm reti from the zba tonight's my last thank you for serving us all right well well it sounds like um we would like to withdraw without prejudice and uh and maybe well you're charming people we'd all like to see you again sometime when we when we know what we're doing all from these experiences well no I appreciate that I appreciate the uh I mean I understand the logic of the whole thing so it's we're not concerned in that regard and I understand that yeah it's a bit odd to have an accessory to something that doesn't exist that doesn't ex I just wish we could put it on the on a deed vote on it and put it on the deed right like just say this could this is it well they're going to make put it on the deed eventually but not eventually yeah but they will require that if you ever get to that point yeah and and then there'll be if you don't need the accessory P it then you don't have to come back Poss then you mean I'll try really hard to design this thing sooner than later yeah but the thing is that the meeting minutes will be on record that you could always let's say if we were not here anymore none of us Barbara excluded because we know she's not but may she wants to come back she may come back you will there'll be a record of what we discussed tonight to guide the the the the exting will be here he's been here for 50 years yeah he's not yeah he's not there's only one way Jerry's leaving is on a backboard so the the the there is a Nuance of a kitchen that is a kitchen something that has an oven in it don't worry about it and it's not as long as there's not an oven in it I can have a refrigerator right but it's it's the it's the bedroom actually so oh I see right you've got a bedroom so like and one other thing you could do when you build the Dreamhouse is you could either take the kitchen out and then it is what it is and or you can just take the bedroom out and taking a bedroom out is just making the door wider right well not putting a door on it at all right now we don't have a door on it at all right yeah okay that's that's that's a okay so you are requesting to withdraw without vedes yes do I have a motion I'll make a motion that um you can withdraw without prejudice second second second all in favor I I oppose no go verily and Conquer and so let's see years from now it can't be that long I'm not I'm getting too old too fast so yeah just put the hippie beads up instead of an actual exactly just you have to put a door on I would like say something put oh you don't makes a better bedroom and closet right yep I would like the record to show a no I have something that doesn't the door but it's CIA I I I would like the record to show clearly that uh at least my reason of of of allowing this is so that we do not set a precedent for approving uh an accessory when there is no primary and you and you stated that so okay um just just doesn't side I I sat on the historic commission for like seven years and and I just really appreciate you all doing this I can't imagine you ought to be on our you ought to be on our commission right now you guys have done amazing you know I understand this is a lot of work so appreciate it okay than good luck thank you thank you she's married to me though so she can't really fire [Applause] me that's not true that could be true maybe I should they call it something different oh my God okay U Victor visit in meeting minutes for May 1st 2024 uh Maria's put together the meeting minutes uh I know everybody's reviewed and commented on them uh I make a motion to approve the May 1st 2024 meeting minutes do I have a second second a second all in favor I I oppose no corre let me make sure I sign because I keep doing this and then I end up with it at home while you're doing that quickly Jeff I'm going to email Ralph and explain to him he can call me if he wants and I was going to CCU and have them the last thing you want them to do is go he's always afraid well he's a little he's a little gsh he's a little guny right now thank you did we have anything else on the meeting minutes um first of all I um this is Barbara's last meeting so and and I want to thank her but you know you know personally and and as a as a as a board for seven years of uh Lucky Seven remember when she started she said she's going to try it for a little while it's try for a little while right yes you know it's been you've been a valuable asset to the board and we thank you for you know for you know for your for your commitment uh you know so much with your rowing and everything else in thank you very much and good luck to you all we want you back pleasure working with you thank you pleas um I had here discussion regarding shch on I thought there was going to be some updates on that course you all know what happened at the town meeting I have talked to um uh to Jim about this uh a couple of times as far as U sending out cease and desist letters and whatever and that's uh I I that's still ongoing as far as what uh you know what's going to happen there hasn't really been a decision yet on on how to go forward with that uh technically everybody right now who is doing a short-term rental is doing it legally and they're subject to a seent assist I don't know what the town is going to do about it and that's up to the zoning enforcement officer and and uh the administrator in the silic board so I was hoping to have a little bit more uh definitive answer on that but U that's that's like I it's still in prod in progress at the selectman's meeting they uh at one of the selectman's meeting they did talk about the possibility of a moratorium they did and I talked to Jim Hartman about that and he said no they can't that's I don't think they legally do of all it's not legal from a stand and attorney BL from a couple of standpoints a couple of them being uh they don't have authority over zoning in the first place uh other issues is um uh the town is required to uniformally enforce uh our our codes if we do it for one and not for the other then that could be prejudicial and so we have to be worried about that so um but again it's that's not as the select board does not have uh authority over over zoning issues um so and it's going to be that's going to be a work in progress uh there is some some some thought about U continuation of a of uh of committees for for both the short-term rental and the route six Corridor uh to you know for uh the next town meeting which is a year from now because the only way to get a a zoning by law passed is at a is at a town meeting they're talking about already having a special town meeting yes um I well you know I don't think that's likely but yes I mean that's that's the only way that that it could be done is is a special time meeting I I had a lot of feedback after that meeting to Tom me I mean based on everything we've heard and you guys worked on for more than a year it looked like it was going to be a slam dunk right okay but while we were there I was close to getting up right after you Roger after the blonde woman spoke I said well maybe we should just get up there and remind these people that everyone that that group was in front of every board not just us right in that they all just kept passing the buck well we did something about it but I think walking away with nothing we should have at least accepted that Amendment yeah for two yes and at Le I was close to saying hey let's accept the amendment uh now we have nothing yes or accept it at seven or five whatever it was accepted at two and that's what we had discussed before the before because that's was my concern at least that's was the chatter I was hearing in town that two was going to the magic number um but you I said you could have also accepted the five or the seven and then next year atast and then appeal there hasn't been a problem say hey let let's try this out let's try it out for two years if if Ralph's having all kinds of problems well then we'll be in front of it to change it but that's not what happened right no and then I got comments of saying that well I went to the town clerk and I go because everybody was cheering when they got rode down I said I go dude you can't rent your place anywhere yes you can I talked to the town clerk I said you really weren't paying attention here were you they just did not want to hear yeah yeah one thing that I I talked to to Jim hartnet about was how Town meetings are run because right what I find is especially things with zoning the budget you know here's the number you like it you don't okay but when it comes to the zoning issues or things where you make those kinds of long-term decisions it shouldn't be a it should if we would have gone people get up and discuss things and provide erroneous information the town somebody who in in Authority should be able to stand up and say no that's not the way this works but you know should be able to reut it because all people are going to hear are things that are potentially all wrong and that's the only remember because there's nobody saying anything else rebutting it so well well the comment by the attorney saying you review this I would like I would like to ask a question about that y because it's bugging me ever since the town meeting and uh we have a Town Council sitting right here toight am I correct you're here as Town Council you're correct okay well okay I I did not have that short-term bylaw sent over to me so I it was part of the warrant I I sent you um like a draft we looked I did and and it got pruned down from that yeah so so there was some yes but I never saw the final the final it came out like right at the end but it was it was a subset that we what we sent you so if you had any problems with the well we actually said that you did do it the we actually said because I sent you I didn't look at some of it early on actually Roger and I had many conversations on and you commented on it and we took your comments in the but your your colleague LED people to believe that this thing went all through the process and and Town Council did not review it okay now we work with you all along the process so to me that's Town Council uh but that that really threw and I think that swayed and forget about us because we're not talking about us we're talking about a committee that was approved at the planning board level which the planning board sent it to legal right yeah and had two open meetings on planing board never sent it to me well that's that's what I'm trying to say even if it was sent to you I your colleague probably wouldn't have gotten he would have said the same thing well but it never it we never the final I I know that the final was sent as part of the warrant yes I do know that and the warrant is sent right right yeah I I don't I don't know at the end of the day it was already you know the the warrant was already posted so there's not a lot you can do but that had a significant effect on that V and that was the second time that night that he did that yeah time yeah technically would wouldn't you say if you were if you were got if you got re the town War you were going to be at the town meeting wouldn't you read the war before you got there yeah I'm sure he did there's no he said he had do you know the name of the no I can't remember I can't I I didn't know the in he specif said he didn't read the war was wrong yeah but that's way the I mean I I understand that can happen because if you didn't read it ahead of time you know you sort of have to have to you know do a little research yeah I but there's there's a difference between giving a wrong answer and just saying I don't know yeah right he was like dancing around it a little bit and then he just came out and said Town Council has not reviewed that that's all he said yeah yeah but then Roger re that but accepted the fact that is Roger telling the truth yeah they believe no that's not what was said of course you got to believe the attorney CU we're so we just I mean you know but this is this is the particulars of town meetings and I think our I think we can and I talk to you about this we first of all we need to do two things in town meetings you can't have zoning things at the end of the meeeting because zoning affects the town forever all the other things in the warrant affect you next year you really need the for everything's sort of a littleit you know upfront so because they're want because it's you're making a decision that affects you forever and and we really need to to to to attack that you know before everybody leaves right and the money and the money part is been so reviewed by the finance Comm to have somebody author authority to repudiate or at least when somebody says something that's wrong you really need somebody in Authority they can say you know you you misunderstanding this that's not the way this is because that's all the that's all the that that everybody hears are a whole bunch of people going up making making comments and and making statements that they believe is true but in fact they're not and and that really throws everybody else off absolutely you know you really need to have not a debate but at least a checkpoint that says this is you you're getting wrong information you need a new moderator about we well I think he's done I think he's done right yeah right also we should big vent but is there any other business a voted T meet members exactly we don't have a space to hold everybody uh okay you want pass the time make a well I was going no this meeting second favor now you want to cut us off