Okay, there it being 6:30 or so, I'm going to start the zoning board of appeals off the January uh 20 uh 21st. I'll start with the pledge of allegiance. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and
to the republic for one nation under God, indivisible, liberty andice for all. in accordance as general law chapter 38 section 20F. This meeting is being recorded.
Uh first hearing is uh zero Hicksbridge Road. A hearing on an administrative appeal of serious business incorporated applicant and Kendall Dtrip owner from a letter issued by the building commission of zoning
enforcement officer that the applicant is operating its commercial business in a residential agriculture district in violation of bon zoning bylaws articles uh 16 section five. The subject property is
located at zero Hicksbridge Road, Westport, Mass, and Shon. Uh, assessors map 55, Watts 35 and 36. Uh, voting on this will be uh Jerry Coutino, George Seljus, myself, Raj Manard,
Consensi, and Cynthia Caseitz. Um the way we uh manage this meeting is I'll have somebody a representative uh from the petitioner come up. Uh they will provide whatever information is
pertinent and then the the board will ask questions. After that I'll open it up to the uh the general public. Uh since what started this uh was a letter from uh the zoning enforcement officer Ralph
Souza. Dear Mr. Trip, after a recent site visit to your property on Hicksbridge Road, Ces Map 55, lots 3536 who's has noticed that serious business landscaping and firewood has been allowed to use a portion of their property to operate their business. This
is a violation of the Westport zoning bylaws. Specifically noted were the following. up to 12 pieces of equipment on site stack of cut trees. These activities constitute commercial use not permitted in the residential agricultural district which is a west
which is a violation of westward zoning bylaws article 5. You are hereby ordered to cease operation and commercial use of the property. You are granted 30 days from receipt of this notice to bring property into compliance. Please be advised that fail to comply may result
in issuance of uh daily fines up to $300 per day as authorized under Massachusetts General Law Chapter 40 section 21D. Each day the violation continues will be considered a separate offense. Also, please note that stockpiling of
materials requires a soils permit from the West Commission. Now before we get started, I want to welcome our new board member, Kevin McOff. He's uh will be an alternate member. So uh welcome and uh you know I I hope you well I say you enjoy your
time here but you you learn something and and uh you know you can uh contribute to now the way this board works is even though you and Janice are both alternates you involved in all aspects of this up until the point of voting. So you ask questions if you have
any issues, you know, feel free to uh to address them, you know, at any time. So is there anybody here from Okay. Uh good evening. Uh my name is Richard Burke. I'm with Borard Burke and Franco in New Bedford. Um with me is Chris
Forier of Serious Business. We uh did submit a letter, Mr. Chairman. We we would request a continuence of tonight's hearing. Um we did submit um in addition to the administrative appeal um a zoning variance request for this property that
is uh scheduled to be heard by the board right now on February 11th. So, we would ask that this matter be continued to the same time. Um, we couldn't get the both applications in at the same time because we were waiting for a an engineering
plan to show the topography of the lot, which is the basis of our our zoning variance request. That took a little a little bit more time uh than than the administrative appeal. >> Otherwise, you could have you could have put them both on the same application. >> Uh, we well, we had to get the
administrative appeal in within 30 days of the order per state law. So I I wanted to meet that filing requirement, but um we wanted to get the engineering plan to make a a good presentation to you in regard to the zoning variance
request. Um so we were a couple weeks later or so and getting that in. they couldn't be advertised at the same time, but I think it would make sense and be more efficient and also allow us to make a presentation of uh you know why why it
should be granted a zoning variance if we can if we can do it at the same time. >> Okay. Um I I know I I I did receive your uh your email requesting the uh continuence. Uh you also uh requested
that we do the variance first. I I don't think we're going to do that by order of president. I think we will do the admit admitted are usually fairly straightforward. Either Ralph Souza followed the uh uh adhere to the zoning bylaws or not. It's a yes or no kind of
a thing. So, uh and if that one obviously if if uh if if we grant your your appeal on that then we don't have to have the variance. So either way, you know, it's sort of like six one a half dozen of the others, but I think we'll in the next hearing, we will start off
with the administrative appeal and and then go to the variance. >> Okay, that's fine. >> That assuming that we do continue it. So you're asking for a continuence to the next hearing, which is February 11th. >> Yes, that's right. >> Uh comments from uh board.
>> Yes, I have a comment. Uh I think this is an example of a situation where to do the job right I think we need to do an onsite. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Because this is the property that's directly across from the landfill.
Right. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And you just put a new road >> existing road. >> Well it's redone. >> All right. Um because uh I think that to see the property we can't see anything
what's what's in there. I think we'll have a a large bearing on what what we right on the variance. >> Right. So what I what I'm thinking I'm just going to suggest it is that in order to save time on the other end uh
that we um continue the hearing to u an onsite uh now between now and February 11th so that on February 11th we have a much better idea in our mind what the what the property looks like instead of coming February 11th and well we don't
know you know is it >> is the property accessible. It is um even >> it does it does have a gate but I can be happy to >> Okay. But I mean it's plowed. I mean you can drive. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
Um Okay. Is there some way that uh that we could get access to to uh to view the property? >> Of course. >> And and how would we do that? >> Um if you had a parameter of days I could leave the gate open during the day. Or
you leave it open during the day. >> It's almost open every day during the day. >> Okay. >> Would you want us a representative or Chris or myself to be or both of us to be there at the time? We can just arrange a time. We're certainly happy to have. >> I think that would be the >> Well, there's two ways we can do. We can
just go individually go in and look >> or what we usually do on an on-site is we go as as a board as a group and we note that uh >> uh with the notice and um and uh and this way here we don't typically discuss
anything >> uh on the on site uh but we view it and we ask questions perhaps of the uh owner or the uh user um and um and then when we come back on February 11th, we would
then be familiar with what what was talking about. >> That's just a suggestion. >> Yes. Yes. I I >> we certainly agree with that. And >> I agree with for the variance part because I've looked ahead for >> for your uh paperwork for the variance
and you were noting severe >> uh gradients that would make it difficult to be used as residential. Well, obviously that's one thing where, you know, >> being there and looking at it would would be helpful. >> Would you agree?
>> Yes. Do we have It has to be noticed that we're doing it on site. Do we have time for that? >> Has to be posted with the town clerk. So, at least 48 hours. >> Okay. >> You could just drive by just like we do any other property if you if you didn't want to have it as part of a
>> as part of a group. The disadvantage of that is just not knowing exactly what we're doing and we're putting stuff here or there or whatever. We're just viewing. So, it's just like I say a suggestion.
Do you want would you want to make it a formal continuation as a posted meeting? Well, we're going to we're going to vote on the continuation, but we can also discuss a uh an on-site, >> right?
>> Because because we're continuing the administrative appeal that has nothing to do with that. >> That's correct. >> Right. >> Right. >> But uh >> so would would the members would you prefer to go on your own or or go as a group?
>> Let's do a family outing. anything. >> I I agree with uh >> with Jerry that, you know, having somebody there to say, "Here's where we plan on doing things because it's a several acres >> that it would be helpful to us all go there and say, "Oh, okay. This is where
you plan on doing it." You know, so >> let's do it together then. >> Let's do it together. And we can pick a date or we could just uh >> Yeah, typically we go on a Saturday. >> Typically go on a Saturday. Uh >> this Saturday I think is before the snowstorm,
>> right? It is. >> Is there a time to have to post? >> Excuse me. >> You're not going to be in town on >> Saturday to read. Okay. >> Well, there's not enough time to post it for this Saturday
according to >> 48 hours. >> Well, >> I can't be here tomorrow, but >> No, week from Saturday. How about we do it a week from Saturday? >> I could come and post it tomorrow. >> I don't know. >> Constants can't be here Saturday.
>> This Saturday? >> What's that? >> Constants can't be here on Saturday. >> Oh, okay. >> So, how about we do it a week from Saturday >> till the 31st? >> Filing me. I don't care when it is. >> Is that okay, everybody? >> Mhm. >> Let me check my What time >> is that okay with you?
>> Yes, I will happily make that work. >> 11. >> Uh 31st. Okay. Um, >> I think you might have something. >> Yeah, >> you have a >> My grandson is up in Boston playing soccer. >> What time you got to be there?
>> It's from 9 to 10. So, if we >> If we did it in the afternoon, >> if we gave it Yeah. After lunch, I can do it. It's about an hour and a half up there. >> Okay. So, like 2:00 or so. >> Yeah, that'd be fine. >> Be fine. >> Okay. I can't do it then. Sorry. Um, but I could do it as uh early at I mean
>> have a doctor's appointment at 1:15. >> Um >> Oh, you can't do noon. >> I could do Well, I could do noon, but he can't. >> I can't be here on the 11th because I'm I'm going to be in Virginia. So, it's she has the priority over me, >> right? Because she's he's not going to be here at the meeting.
>> Well, you're not going to be here, >> right? >> Oh, okay. Right. Yes. >> On the 11th. >> You're right. I will be in Virginia. So, >> Okay. So we'll >> So 11. >> So >> we do it in the morning or I mean or in the afternoon after after closer to 3. >> Then we're looking at sun.
>> Huh? >> We can do we can do it in the morning because George doesn't have to be here. He won't be here for the meeting, >> right? >> So we'll do it in the morning on a 30 >> week Saturday 31st. Is that all right? >> 11 work. >> 11. >> 11's fine.
>> 11's okay. I'm okay with you. map. >> Kevin, >> I I don't know if you need me to do the visit, but I won't be until Saturday. >> But I could go visit separately also. >> Okay, >> that would >> that was Yeah, >> I could very easily go by and >> Okay, we can fill you in.
>> Yeah. >> Is 11 okay? That's perfect. 11 on Saturday. >> Okay, you want to shoot an email or we'll arrange that. So I'll I'll read uh I Serious Business Incorporate request that the hearing on my petition be
continued until February 11, 2026. I understanding the deadline for making the decision will be extended accordingly. So we have a request um do we have a motion? All right. I'll make a motion to grant the request to continue the the uh this
hearing until February 11th at uh 6:30. We have a second. >> A second. >> Second. All in favor say I. >> I. I all oppose. No. Okay. So, we will see you on uh well, we'll see you >> on the week from Saturday and and we'll
continue the meeting until uh February 11th where we will discuss uh both. >> If I'm able to join that I I join on the 31st as well and >> Sure. Yes. Okay. >> Yes. Yeah. Thank you. >> So, when is he on site? >> 31st. >> At 11.
>> At 11. Do you know that I put Z in there and the whole thing popped into my calendar. Isn't that weird? At 11 o'clock. >> Freaks me out. >> What's What? >> But it does that. You know, and I do that for the zoning board. Like tonight when you have to use in the email, I
just go Z and it says ZVA and it says, >> "Oh, I hate it. I hit it when it says 11:00. How do it know?" >> Oh, I don't know. That's kind of freaky. Mine usually says 6:30. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um,
>> weird. >> That's the brother's watching. >> Okay. Uh the second hearing tonight, 683 American Legion Highway, administrative appeal of Adelino Maderas
and Deborah Maderas from the termination by the building commissioner and zoning enforcement officer dated December 1, 2025. that the owner AMA Engineering LLC is in compliance with condition number one of the 2012 site plan approval that mandates that the owner shall install
and maintain the storm water and septic systems at all times with no impact offsite. Subway property located at 683 American Legion Highway Westport Mass and shown ancesus map 35 3B. Once again voting on this will be Jerry Cino,
George Sus, myself, Raja Manard, Constinsky, and Cynthia Kazcowitz. And u this will require a uh uh this administrative appeal require a vote of four of the members in in affirmative.
Um let me get my paperwork out here. the um out of the way now. Okay. I'm going to go in one of your enclosures to >> I believe that what started this was was
a letter from the zoning enforcement officer who said uh dear attorney Marsh I am received of your letter date of September 9, 2025 in which you claim that the property located at 683 American Legion Highway is in violation of of a 2012 site plan approval by the
town reviewed the site plan approval for AMA Engineering Smart Move Conveyor LLC. With regard to the June 5, 2012 decision noted in the decision findings of fact number two, the project as presented pro
protects adjoining premises by avoiding adverse effects on natural environment and abutters. Offer for a butters has been adequately addressed andor provided as required under zoning bylaw 15.4-2. 4-2. Further as condition number one, the
applicant and any successor in interest agrees and shall as a condition of this approval install and maintain storm water and septic systems at all times. In addition, there shall be no negative impact on site. I have verbally spoken to the property owner claims that the system has been maintained and operated
as permitted. I will follow up my verbal conversations in writing. I note that if there's damage to your client's property from redirected storm water, your client has privileged right of action irrespective of town involvement, you may appeal this decision within 30 days. I believe that is what uh
uh started this uh this petition. So again, uh we'll have the uh applicant come forward, provide what information is pertinent. Uh board will ask questions and after the board has finished asking questions, I'll open it up to the public. So, okay, sure. >> Good evening. For the record, my name is
Jim Marsh and I represent Deborah and Almados, owners of 48 Old County Road, Westport, Massachusetts, and I'm here with uh Steve Giosef from Scitec Engineering. Um, as you mentioned, uh, chairman, uh, we're here on an appeal of
a building commissioner's failure to take enforcement action against, uh, the owners of 683 American Legion Highway for violations of the planning board's June 5th, 2012 site plan approval, particularly condition one of that
decision, uh, which requires that the drainage system, uh, that was installed with that development back in 2012, uh, be maintained by the owner to ensure no negative impacts offsite. That's condition one. Conditions of the site plan approval are to be enforced through
the building commissioner to ensure that an owner adheres to the approved plans and specific conditions imposed by that decision. Condition one. Again, it's clear from the evidence provided by the Maderos uh to the commissioner um which
was also provided to the board as part of our appeal petition. Uh we provided photos. There's there was a um flash drive that included uh videos also um and there was an assessment letter from Mr. Giosa
um that the drainage system at that property has not been maintained by the owner for some time. Um and this failure to maintain the system has led to less capacity due to obstructions, failures and changes in that system. This failure to maintain the system has resulted in
an overflow to the Madros property which is a condition is a violation of condition one and the town through its commissioner has an obligation to investigate this violation and issue remedial orders to ensure compliance. Enforcement mechanisms available to the
commissioner include the issuance of an order for an immediate cease to the unauthorized discharges of storm water offsite and requiring a proposed solution and timeline to implement. The commissioner's decision not to take action in this case we don't think was
supported by the record that was provided to him or before him. As mentioned in his letter, it was based on a verbal representation from the owner that the system has been maintained and operated as permitted. This this does not line up with the
owner's own representation to our clients that there quote unquote no system maintenance records available. Commissioner has an obligation to require the owner provide him documentation to demonstrate
that the professed maintenance of the system is being done. or in the alternative he could have conducted his own investigation or inspection of the drainage system to confirm whether it was maintained and functioning properly. We think his decision to not take action
also runs a foul of that substantial documentary expert evidence that was provided to him demonstrating the system is not functioning and causing repeated off-site flooding impacts to the premises. Um as I mentioned earlier with
me tonight is Mr. Gioseph from Scitec Engineering. He'll advise the board as to why the system's not working as designed, the off-site impacts to the Maduro's property, and what corrective actions which and in what he'll explain are simple to
implement and for the owners to follow, needs to be need to be taken to resolve these off-site uh storm water problems. Uh good evening. For the record, Steve Giosa with Scitec. Um briefly, my
history with the project goes back to the 2012 approval uh by the planning board. The Maderases at that time retained me to assist them with making sure that this new development was not going to have a negative impact on their property. They were concerned at that
time with drainage, potential drainage impacts. Um so we reviewed the plans. We did provide comments to planning and eventually the planning board did implement some of our recommendations through their engineer. Um, and as Jim indicated, one of the conditions and I
think probably the most important was in addition to installing the drainage mitigation that had been designed by their engineer, maintain it, inspect it, maintain it periodically. Otherwise, anything you put in the ground eventually is going to fail if it doesn't receive proper
maintenance. Um, this particular system had some great mitigation measures. I think their engineer did a good job. Um, it starts with your typical catch basins and trench drains to collect the runoff. The roof drains were directed into an
underground recharge system which helped control the flow of water to downgradient properties. So, that's a good element of the design. Uh but the catch basin system overflows into a on-site recharge system for storm water
off the parking lot runoff. So from the loading area from the parking lot area the runoff goes through these catch basins which trap the oils and greases and some of the sediments and then there's an overflow into this almost like a big septic system that they built in the back of the building. That system
was designed to not hold necessarily all the water, but to let some of it seep into the ground, store some of it and slow it down, slow the flow down, and then let it meter out slowly into a drainage swale behind the building. And
that drainage swale has vegetation and a little crush stone to filter the final flow and let it continue heading downhill like it did before there was a development there. But to head downhill at a slower rate and with less volume
than if it were allowed to go unchecked through a commercial parking lot. So you can picture we start with an undeveloped piece. We put pavement and building down. We're going to generate more runoff. It's going to be dirtier water because of the sediment and greases off cars and the like dropping onto the
pavement and it goes into the basins and through the system. The Maduras once this was installed system worked great for 10 years. So we got 10 good years out of the use of the system. They did not experience flooding
issues. They didn't see overflows. Suddenly we're starting to see more and more overflows. So they contacted attorney Marsh and then myself to take a look at what could be going on today that didn't occur for
the first 10 years of operation. And what we looked at is we've got a a nice system welldesigned um appeared to have been installed correctly worked great for 10 years and all of a sudden it's not working. The first thing that came to mind to me
was well it sounds like a maintenance issue. is has somebody done what the regulations require for maintaining this type of drainage system and it really it comes down to you've got three major components of this system. You've got the trench drain and the catch basins
when the manhole piping. Those parts of the system are real easy. You open the covers, you look inside, sediment builds up, you clean them out. They should be inspected twice a year every year. Usually we recommend end of the fall season before the winter
so you get a nice start to when you're doing sanding and you're getting more sediments coming onto the pavement in the winter. And then in the springtime after you've gone through um the winter season, you do another inspection and make sure you haven't over sanded and the accumulated
sediments aren't flushing out to the next part of the system. So the owner should have been doing routine inspections of that part of the system. The next component of the system is the recharge system and storage. There's an
inspection port. You inspect it. You search charging. It acts acts just like a septic system. So it needs to be maintained like a septic system. If you don't clean your septic tank, you're going to have a problem with the leeching field. It's the same thing here. you don't clean the catch basins,
you're going to have a problem with the drainage leeching system. And then finally, the overflow to a series of grass swailes and a little check dam. You look in those areas for any overflow sediments. You look for sometimes you
get some settlement because you get a heavy flow of water. You might get some differential settlement. And if that happens, which is what I think has occurred here, you get a short circuiting of the system and that excess water unfortunately goes to the Madera's
property. So you've got three components. All should be maintained and inspected routinely and when they observe an issue, it should be fixed immediately. Um there should be records kept. Clearly, if I'm a commercial business owner, I'm
expending funds on maintaining a system. Um, I'm going to deduct that from my taxes because it's a business expense. So, we thought it was a simple request. We asked for, you know, records of what has been inspected, what maintenance has
occurred, have the basins been cleaned, have they needed to be cleaned? Sometimes we'll inspect catch basins and it may be three years before we actually have to have someone go in there and clean them out. It depends on how the property operates. So, we have not gone on the property obviously um to do that
physical inspection. So, we asked for their maintenance records and none have been produced. We think the answer is it's not been maintained. People put these systems in the ground. As long as they're working, they forget about them. It happens on commercial developments
quite a bit. I think that's probably the case here. So all we were asking for is that the the through Ralph's office uh requests be made to produce the maintenance records to demonstrate that
they have been in compliance with the approval from the planning board which require them to maintain the system and then if there needs to be some fix which may be nothing more than fixing a little bit of the burm so that there isn't a short circuiting at the outlet point and
making sure that the catch basin are clean and the leeching field hasn't clogged to the point where it would need to be replaced. Just like your septic systems on your house, periodically they have to expect this leeching field for the drainage system is going to fail.
Just like your septics, your septic system should last 20, 25, 30 years if you maintain it correctly. The same should occur here. And if they're not maintaining it, maybe they only got 10 years of life out of this system and they've got to now upgrade it. But we're
hoping that they can provide enough documentation, fix the little bit of an overflow that's occurring on the burm in the back when the weather allows to do a little bit of grading and get it stabilized and then we get happy neighbors. So that's really what we've
been looking to have accomplished. We tried going first to the a butter, then we went to the town hall and we're now before you to see if we can't get some action to to push the issue of proper maintenance and documentation if nothing else.
>> U Ralph, your take on this? >> My take on it is basically um when the property was developed, it was under site plan approval and it's Tibet's engineering that uh approved everything. So the way I read the the plan site plan approval is they they would have
maintained it on their own. I mean any building inspector sitting in the office doesn't have the time to go check every commercial site over a period of years >> of what we get to do already. So I went as far as I could go with it and I couldn't go any further with it. Well, I
I mean I'm reading the uh uh the decision from the planning board and one of the conditions is that the applicant and any successor in interest agrees and shall as a condition of this approval install and maintain the storm water septic systems at all times. In
addition, there shall be no negative impact offsite. So, the planning board condition mandates that it be maintained. So, isn't that still part of >> that's that's part of it, but I'm not
How does the planning the planning board doesn't invite me to the hearings for one? >> Mhm. >> So, how am I supposed to do this? >> Yeah. >> Have you have you talked to the Have you Have you maintenance records? >> I've asked them for maintenance record.
They tell me it's been maintained. Uh, and that's all that's all I've got. I mean the days that I've gone I did on sites there the system was working. >> Okay. >> It was there was water collected in the retention area. The system was working.
I didn't see visibly any problems with it. >> Is is there any way of doing another onsite to to >> Well, I see again it's I'm a building inspector. Buildings. >> Yes. >> You need engineers. Yes. >> Like Mr. >> Right. >> You need engineers to go look at it. >> You need somebody who specializes
>> right. Specialized in drainage systems. Mhm. >> I'm a building inspector. The buildings is what I do. >> Yes. >> Yeah. This one is kind of unusual. Usually uh when we do administrative appeals, it's it's based on uh a
condition of zoning because it's the zoning board. >> Uh we've never had one where we had an administrative appeal based on a planning board uh uh decision. Uh so uh >> but but it does fall under zone. I'm
going to It stands under under zoning because it is in the zoning bylaw. >> Correct. >> Yes. >> It's in the zoning bylaw for 2012, which I had a hard time finding the paragraph number because it doesn't exist anymore. >> Yeah. >> So, we have >> it also puts the enforcement into Ralph's hands.
>> It does. >> Right. Right. Um, if we were to grant this, how would how would that affect you? >> Let's just The board disagreed that I I My letter my letter was based on
conversations with Copman and Paige town council. >> I mean we we have to be concerned here about because it says here we have to be concerned about the neighbors. >> Yeah. >> So how do we go about doing that? >> A cease and desist, right?
>> Well, it be it'd be have a meeting getting all parties involved and say, "Okay, what's happening here?" That's that's what this this should have happened before, but it escalated. >> It it really escalated. So, I mean, I'm again, I'm not an engineer,
>> right? >> I do buildings. I don't do landscaping. I don't do drainage. >> And to that point, I I think um some of the solution has already been outlined in some way by um Mr. Giosa and and what
he's provided already. And I think if following that that could be what the board could require Mr. Souza to do. >> But again, he's not an expert in in >> that's why he has provided that
information as to what the owners at that property need to follow and if he can enforce that. >> We're not getting what's that? >> We're still asking questions. When we're done asking questions, I will open it up to the floor.
It it goes back to Okay. I'm not an engineer. Buildings are what I do, not drainage. >> Well, that and >> what what happens is this is a planning board decision. >> Yes. >> Right. >> It's really it's tied to zoning, but it's not.
>> It's a planning board decision. So the plan board could have said at this decision to the to the parties involved, you ought to to hand us >> yearly reports on the systems at that point. >> Yeah. And it doesn't actually say that.
>> It doesn't say that. >> It just says you have to maintain it. It doesn't say >> let's let the building inspector do it that does buildings, not not drainage. >> I go there I go there and I look at it and it's working. I say, "So what's the problem?"
>> Yes. Did I >> I'm sorry. >> No, I was just going to chime in here. Um I I think it's somewhat distant from Ralph's expertise and and I I don't know
this, but I would almost think it's it's far from his ability to enforce. Uh I think it's up to the owner to to see that this is done. And if not, then it's a violation. and a violation comes with
$300 a day uh penalties and I think that ought to be seriously considered and but I don't know I mean you've got planning board here you've got conservation commission that deals with storm water runoff >> correct >> which I'm not hearing anything about
>> um and and you've got the um building department um and you've got the owner and you've got the board of health that that sometimes keeps certain records or pumpouts and so forth. So I think it's a
mixed bag of of of responsibility, but the actual responsibility is the owner abiding by the bylaw, >> right? And that and that's where I'm at a quandry here because uh well, we have two ways of doing this. We can either grant or we can re reject. And I don't
see that either one of them solves your problem. Well, it does if we if >> because because because all we're going to say is uh Ralph uh take care of this and Ralph is going to say that's not on my that's not on my my job description. >> But what it needs to do is issue a cease
and assist and start firing the guys until the records are produced. And if they don't produce the records, then they keep giving a $300 a day fine. >> The thing you've got, you've also got his engineer, hired engineer, and you've got the engineer by AMI. So you've got
two engineers. I've got two engineers. One engineer's report says it's working fine. The other engineer points out all kind of things wrong. >> Do you have something in writing from that engineer saying it's working? >> Leave things in in in in my in my f. It's not here. It's in my in the folder.
>> I'm sorry. I didn't >> if it's not with me now. It's probably in the folder. >> No, but it's a written statement saying that statement saying that it's it's it's working by their engineers. Well, >> Steve, >> your letter said
that you talked to them, >> right? I talked to them, but they they they said they did site visits to it. >> That doesn't imply to me that they gave you documentation. They did it. >> They must there's going to be if they've done it, if they're telling me they've done it, did they do reports? And the
gentleman said yes. >> Why can't we see them? >> Is there anyone here for me? If I if I may just >> I'm going to open it up now because it it's going to be a Okay. >> Come up to the microphone. >> Yeah. >> Because it's important to know
>> if if there is if there is maintenance records. >> Absolutely. And being accused of something without Scitec coming to the property at all and requesting any of these things is an injustice to us. >> Could you identify yourself, please? >> Yes. Paula Wright, AMA Engineering.
Okay. Mrs. Maderas had existing flooding problems before any work was permitted or started at the project site. Mrs. Maderas in a town meeting on March 13th, 2012 that her land is the lowest of the
above parcels with existing draining issues. She noted she gets flooded all the time. Madiraas stated that she had wetlands on her property. Montego asked if the applicant has requested for conservation commission determination.
They said responded they did not have any wetlands on their property. Okay. Conflict right there. >> Can we >> prior to the meet >> can we just address the issue at hand? >> Absolutely. 20 2012. >> Absolutely. >> I'd like to know if if you have records. >> We have records. We have documentation.
It is done every spring, every fall. We have a maintenance man. Can the Can the board see copies of >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> And why were they not provided to Mr. >> We have documentation and we have photographs. >> But why did M why were they not provided from Mr. Souza when he asked for them?
>> Mr. Souza said do you take records? I said yes we do >> and the engineer involved also. We do take records. That is exactly what he said. We do take records >> and >> and photographs documentation >> and maintained.
So I think I'd like to see those records. >> Absolutely. They can be provided. >> You don't have them with you tonight. >> This is not against me. This was against Ralph. This right here, this appeal was for this. >> Yes, that's right. >> This is not That's right.
>> I came as an open >> Yes. Fine. >> Open floor. However, they are maintained. The topography of the land has always caused rain flow, rainwater flow towards the southwest corner on the right slots.
When we was When was the last time you had a flood event claim? Anybody put in a claim for a flood event? Never. Do you have any dates of flood events? Do you have any claims? You don't.
Anybody knocked on our door saying there's a problem here? No, not at all. When we asked Attorney Marsh for dates of the flooding events, there were no dates provided. The rights have been photographing all
storms and levels of the swailes and the ponds and have such noted dates and photographs. The engineering design drainage system is functioning as divi as designed which is to reduce water flow. The engineering design drainage system was not designed to fix the
pre-existing problem. That was overdone. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to put this drainage system in, not on the property, on the drainage system. That drainage system holds 35,000 gallons of storm
water before it le releases slowly through an offices. Orphice orifice, sorry. Um, to say that we haven't maintained and you haven't even checked it out is a
problem for me. That propertyy's maintained. The swailes are maintained. They're always weed whacked. We're checking for cracks. Every storm we're over there taking photographs of it. And we have no claim of anything of any
change in any water flow. There needs to be a documentated change and there isn't. There isn't a claim. So, her yard gets wet. Tell me more. How can I help? That's exactly what we
did through the entire process. How can we help? What can we do? Did I want to spend thousands of hundreds of thousands of dollars on a drainage system? No. I did because my neighbors asked me to. >> Okay. Thank you. Could I ask a question,
please? Um, >> sorry. Yes. >> Yes. You say that you have these records. >> I do. >> You have photographs of every I do. >> Every time it floods. >> Every time it floods, every time it storms. Yes. Every time it comes to the top of the swale. >> U. So why don't you just produce them?
>> I will. This wasn't my hearing. >> That takes care of it. >> Absolutely. This wasn't my hearing. >> But they they need to show that it's been maintained. >> Absolutely. >> And now I want to ask uh the engineer um you
mentioned in the second phase about a tank and it needs to be cleaned. You you use the word cleaned. Does that is that like a septic system where u they pump it and literally clean it uh uh on
there. Uh could you but I want to know if you had that done. >> It is silt and yes we clean the silt. >> Okay. So it gets pumped out. >> It is not pumped. Yes. >> It is pumped. >> Is that what you're saying?
>> Somebody gets in there, shovels it out. >> Okay. And and your name, please? >> My name is Andrew, right? >> Okay. Um, so, uh, so you know who you had pump this thing and clean this system? >> Our maintenance man. Yes.
>> Or your own maintenance man. >> Of course. We have a lot of properties. Absolutely. >> Okay. Well, that's fine if that if that is. So, so you have these uh >> records. Yes. >> Records and uh >> photographs,
>> original records, >> which is pure documentation. >> Just so I make clear the record, um we did not accuse the rights of not doing the inspections. We have repeatedly requested those records through attorney Marsh, through the building department,
through other boards in town and they have never been produced. So, this is not something we wanted to be in front of you on. We wanted to have those records to look at. >> Um, they've never been produced. Okay. So, that's number one. Number two, you're right. The cleaning can be done
with a shovel in a bucket. If if someone's willing to jump into a catch basin, um, I wouldn't recommend that because you get oils and greases. That's a dangerous situation, confined space, it's an OSHA violation, but that's not my business. It's not my property. Um,
but we have not to this day seen any evidence of that. We do have evidence from our clients depicting overflows, and I agree with what she said. We're their obligation was not to fix existing drainage problems. Their obligation was
not to make it any worse. And for 10 years it worked fine. Something changed. And all we've done is pointed out that it was designed well. It was probably installed correctly. Something changed
during that time period. And that's typically a function of maintenance. That's all we've said. That's what our reports have said. We're not accusing them of not doing the required inspections. Attorney Marsh has requested them and they've not produced them. So that's why unfortunately we're
here tonight wasting everybody's time. >> If they were to produce the the records to to uh enforcement officer, would that satisfy your your issues? >> We'll review them and and see what the documentation is. Until we see it, we don't know what their records
>> because a lot could have changed. I mean, we've we've had more rain, I would say, in the last 10 in the last >> five years. >> Five years. >> Uh other construction has gone in the area. that changes things as well. You know, the exist the aquifers change
underneath. I mean, there's a lot of things that that are beyond their control that could have changed. Maintenance obviously is one of them. But if if by if if Ms. right, is is can produce those
records and show that it's been properly maintained, then there's nothing else the town can really do because >> mother nature has >> we can't address a change in in rainfall obviously. >> However, in the 10 years that it did
operate, there was some pretty significant rainfall events and there were no problems for the Maduras >> significant beyond the types that they've now seen impacting their property. So, >> I think that you're right that we can't hold the rights responsible for things
beyond their control. >> We can't ask that they follow the rules that the planning board imposed. That's all we've asked from the beginning on this >> and that's all we've ever done is follow the rules and ask you which hoops we need to jump through to make our neighbors happy. >> We would also like documentation as to
when these events occurred. >> It's right here. If we can cross reference that, that would be fantastic. >> You want to look at plug it in. >> It's got the dates, times
of the four. >> All we're concerned with is >> you identify yourself, please. >> I'm Debra Maderas 480. >> As a board, all we're concerned with is that you complied with the decision of the planning board. So if you do have records that you did the maintenance
then according to the planning board decision then you have complied with their decision. So um that you know providing those those records to u the zoning enforcement officer actually they should go to the planning board as well. >> They should go to planning board >> should go to planning board but in order
in order to solve our issue you get send a copy to u uh to Ralph. You got to provided they do enough maintenance so that or they correct maintenance the proper maintenance that there's no off-site impacts. Whether they're doing maintenance that doesn't
satisfy the condition still. >> It was very vague. >> It just says maintenance. Unfortunately, it doesn't say. >> Well, but there is a caveat on there and it says in addition there shall be no negative impact offsite. >> Right. So negative meaning not more than
what >> we may not be doing >> everything that's necessary with respect to maintaining the system because we're having offsite negative impacts. So just because they're producing records from
someone that serviced the system, as as Steve said, something happened after 10 years of use of the system. And we're blaming it on there wasn't enough maintenance or if they did maintenance, it wasn't enough
maintenance because we're having these off-site negative impacts that need to get resolved. And that's why we're in front of you guys, >> right? Again, this is two issues. One of them, the maintenance. They say they're doing a maintenance. They can provide the records. Then that part of the
condition is set. The other is that last sentence saying no impact offsite. Is like you said, is it are they doing it adequately so that they are not adversely affecting private uh property? And
uh the only way it the way we would do that is that we would hire a consultant charge you the fee for the consultant to to review their their uh their records and potentially review their their site
to determine if in fact they shall have no impact on offsite. And that's the only way that I can see how we do this. Uh part of this is you know is documentation which they can provide. The only other aspect of this is is the impact offsite. And the only way I think
of doing that is is to have an expert consultant actually review this because certainly we're not experts in this. Ralph is not an expert in this. Uh even the planning board, even if if the planning board were to do it, they would have their consultant do it and they would charge you for it.
>> So uh that's where we sit at the moment. >> Records first. see what they can produce, >> right? >> Make a decision from them. >> Okay. Um I don't I don't know what the the
request would be. I mean, we would want to see what they produce. You know, we've been asking for it. Town's been asking for it. >> But if they if they come back with records saying that they had done maintenance, they said twice a year, then >> they've complied with the planning board requirement,
>> at least a portion of that >> in that part of it. So then at that point we can make a decision after our own engineer reviews these records as to whether we think there's a need to have a consultant third party consultant
hired to review the system on behalf of the town. So I don't I don't know how we hold this decision in advance until we review these records or >> I mean we could do a continuation >> seems like. >> Yeah, I think that's appropriate. I mean
I without physical records I I can't say Ralph did or didn't do his if it's proper. If there is written records that shows his maintenance then I think Ralph's letter was appropriate. >> So we would denied the appeal. Right. >> Right.
>> But without those records I can't really say that. >> Right. a continuation I think would serve the best interest uh because that gives everybody a chance to gather records,
talk to the planning board, see if they take any responsibility for this uh >> or maybe the parties could come to some agreement. >> Yeah. >> Continue it month or two or three. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean I think it's
the you know it's >> even if the record if they say the records are are not adequate we can get another engineer that say they are and we can get another engineer that says they're not. I mean there and there's just so much other things that could go you know unless there's gross negligence
I think of the maintenance. I don't really think how why the town should be involved. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. So are you officially asking for a continuence? Yes, she has paperwork for that.
>> I guess >> we have to pick a date. >> The rights need to agree that they're going to sort of participate. >> We will participate. We will produce records, >> right? And is that something you can do quickly? >> Absolutely. >> And >> we've been doing it all along. >> Give it Give it to Ralph.
>> I can do that. >> And Ralph, I I assume you want to give a copy to uh >> give a copy to the plan board, but I'll also see what the plan board's got. to me they should have been tracking this right along the planning board. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Well, that's another issue. I
think >> that's another issue. Should never have come to this board. >> Separately from this, I think we ought to have a discussion with the planner and and and see if in the future they tighten that up a little bit, you know, as to who going to keep records, submit
records, whatever it may be. >> We also never been requested. only Ralph has asked us have we maintained they've never asked for records so I would have put started compiling everything that was not requested
>> okay um okay we have a request from the petitioner I James Marsh on behalf of Alan Deb Maderas request that the hearing on my petition be continued until Okay now we have to pick a date and then I understand that the deadline
for making the decision will uh will be extended quarterly. Uh certainly it's not I don't think we can do three on the 11th. >> No, I think >> I I I think that'd be too soon anyway because >> probably probably too soon anyway. I mean
>> Well, no, it's just getting records and >> Well, it may be more than that. >> They're going to have to go when when >> I I got you the records. >> We talked about it. I think if we give them enough time to get the records together, get them to Ralph. Ralph will let us know when he has them. We can get copies through Ralph's office or through
planning's office, whoever is holding the records. If if the board is comfortable with continuing for a month, so you're not on the It sounds like your 11th meeting's pretty >> We already have a few >> pretty busy from what I heard earlier. So the meeting after that is probably the >> We don't have meetings after that. We
schedule meetings. >> Okay. So maybe the next meeting after the 11th. >> We That's why we have to pick a date. >> Well, we already have one. >> We don't have scheduled meetings. >> I see. Oh, I see you. Only if you have things on. >> Sure. >> Don't we have one in March now? >> March 11th. >> March 11th. Okay.
>> That works for >> I think that would be a better time time frame because I I really think there's going to be more complications. Yes. >> That are going to come up here. >> Oh yes. You got to look to make sure you're both available. >> March works for for the petitioner, but let's see if
>> and myself. But >> Mrs. material. >> It works. >> Let's see. But oh, no. the um >> right >> ama would you also be available for uh
to to appear on uh >> yes >> I mean I think it would it would be helpful >> it's about us >> yes Okay. March 11th. >> March 11th. >> Okay. So, uh
request that the hearing on my petition be continued until 311 2026. I understand the deadline for making this decision will be extended accordingly. Uh so, we have a uh request for
continuous. Do we have a motion? I make a motion that we go to the continuence. >> I have a second. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. All oppose. No. It would be helpful that you know you could provide the documentation if you know as quickly as
possible to Ralph and then Ralph make sure you get a copy to them as quickly as possible. >> Okay. >> Uh, very good. >> Hopefully it doesn't come to the point of us having to hire a consultant, but it may it may require that. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you so much. Have a great day.
Could I follow up on this please before before we get off the subject that um I'd like to suggest that we um ask Maria to u to notify just summarize what just went
on uh notice to the planning board and then I would like to suggest that we we meet with the planning board to uh see if that can't be tightened up a little bit in terms of record keeping. >> I I'm not even sure about the the board
of health. Nothing to do with this one, but same thing with the board of health. They supposed to keep records and you go back there and you know you're supposed to keep records of when you have your septic pumps >> and half the time they can't find them. And so I think it's an issue.
>> And there's also that >> I agree. >> There was also >> Maria, can you can you interface with any point on this? And there was also that hub of blue for Mouse Mill Road. Remember the flooding? There was something they wanted to build on Mouse Mill Road and the planning board says that there was too much water. That's just right around the corner. >> Yes.
>> I mean that I mean that could be affecting these guys properties more than what they've done. I mean I mean there's just too many unknowns. >> I mean unless there's a clear indication that it hasn't been maintained in a negligently way I I don't think I think
we just need to step aside. Some of that came up up in our 40B. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, in the 40B is up the road, too. I mean, like there's lots of things that have and that hadn't been maintained. So, that could affect
>> All you got to do is look at look at a map of that area of Westport. It's heavy developed now. >> Yeah. It Yeah, that's >> heavy developed the whole area. >> There's a lot more there than there was 10 years ago >> than what there was. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Okay. Uh other >> more hard surface >> other other business we
>> wet land. >> Could I could I uh just interject one thing here? Uh I happened to watch uh the planning board um the other day and uh there was a young fellow there who
apparently owns the property around the uh Portuguese restaurant on on Route Six. >> Oh yeah. What is it done? >> And uh and he's in there with a pretty lengthy discussion with
the planning board about a 40B >> that he's proposing. >> Yeah. >> Up there. So I just want to give you a heads up on that. >> Yeah. >> I don't know why he's afraid to see that multi. So >> yeah, put >> multi-tenent house type things, four
unit buildings. >> Oh >> yeah. Yeah. the the the most divine rule is in the back >> the street. Okay. >> I just thought I'd let you give you a heads up on that. >> Okay. U meeting minutes. >> That's how I want to spend my 2026
>> meeting minutes from December 17, 2025. Uh Maria has agenda read the meeting minutes. We've all commented on them. So I'll entertain a motion to approve the meeting minutes from December 17, 2025. >> I make a motion to approve. >> That's not my motion.
>> I second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> All oppose. No. >> Okay, good. So, um our next hearing is on the 11th of which, uh >> February of Well, yeah. February. Let me
sign this. >> So, you're going to have >> of which there will be >> zero Pixridge Road. You'll have the administrative appeal as well as the variance, >> right? We'll have the administrative appeal and the variance. and uh have >> we'll also have >> results of the onsite.
>> Yeah. And American Legion >> and American 463 American Legion Highway >> will be uh for the 11th >> and I have um Jeff Blake should be coming down for both of us. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Any other uh any other business? So, uh, welcome aboard, Kevin. Um, this isn't our typical kind of meeting. We generally try to do make decisions, but >> sometimes you can make a decision. >> Yeah, we >> we
>> continuations are the way the continuations work is in in the zoning board is of course they have to pay an initial fee of $500 just to to come and see us. uh they get to have one continuation for free because a lot of people come in and
don't have the right kind of documentation. There's too many questions and uh so we just so uh so we allow them one continuation without without charge. After that if they require additional continuence then each
one is $100 after that and it's mostly paperwork um uh that that cost us. It's it's it's all the Maria's time doing meeting minutes and doing all that kind of stuff that that uh that the petitioner has to pay for. So, u that's the way uh that's the way continuences
uh work. U the next the next hearing we will have our attorney Jeff Blake will be here uh to assist us through some of these things. We we generally do that in some in cases that are that have legal issues or that if the um if the petitioner has
come in with uh with their own lawyer and and and use case study to you know to further their their applicant and then we have no idea if that case study is is at all pertinent. So at that point we we generally have our zoning lawyer come in
and help us. Uh any other uh any other business? We adjourn. >> I make a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> You're right there. >> I am. >> I second. All in favor? >> You're Mr. Second.