that different time in so Stephen I don't know just introduced ourselves I think he was here last time and I was on Zoom and was reversed the time before that I'm Garrett I was super Oh hi Garrett I that's who you were but
I'm asking I'm Rusty Paul's Gro. Um, I am the community development administrator. Did we get everybody? Awesome. Um, does anybody
have a motion to review and approve previous Smith? I can't make a motion. I'm not a member. Thank you. Rich makes a motion. Second. Awesome. We've got a second and then everybody's in person so we can do a
raised hand vote. Uh, would anybody like to see I have copies here if anybody would like to see them. This also went out over email. Yep. Um, are we are we good to vote? Yes. All righty. All in favor? Looks like we've got
people in favor. We are approving the minutes. Awesome. Next on the agenda, um, and I'm actually Is it okay if we go out of order given the timets we have people on?
because I'd love to start with um Garrett to talk about the building because I know that Mitch will be on probably when we're done chatting with Garrett about stuff so that kind of we can do Well, you want to explain about Mitch?
Yes. So, why don't you explain Kathy? So, um just so everyone knows Mitch Mitchell is part of my team. He's a structural engineer with power engineering that has offices in Holio as well as elsewhere. And he was one of the
people who came out um and did the site visit in July and he's been on vacation for two weeks since August. So he um sent me um late yesterday um his initial draft letter report which um Russy just
handed out and um he has a meeting this morning at 10 and something right before noon time, but he said he would log in at about 1110. So that's who Mitch is. Um,
but on top of that, the reason that Garrick is here today because we've all been talking about the root, which I think we can all agree is of concern. Garrett is the guy who's going to help us coordinate getting that work done. Um, and so I wanted to bring him here so we
could all be on the same page. Um, so I think we should probably start with just addressing the the roof patching stuff. Can I hand it to you there? Awesome. I um I talked to Mr. Hawking and I actually just talked to him before
I came here. He said that he would come by and look at it. They'll do a patch repair. The roof is is needs to be replaced come out of them. So they'll do a patch repair to keep the water from coming into the structure all the basement
and then that'll buy some time. So you can you know we think about how we want it first. don't stop the water a building decays four times per so I fig just get a patch put on and
then think about exactly how we want to say that's a first thing that has to happen holes in roofs how much time does it bounce quite a We'll get the drains fixed and stop the water from being in there being
a couple. Okay, that's that's a subject come up of the overgrown uh shrubs. I'll come up. I'll come in. Okay, if that's on everybody good with that, please. Well, I was just looking at
the old picture. This old picture and there's no shrubs in front of that building. It's a rather nice looking building. The drugs kind of get in the wagon. They were good in their time. The way they are. And would would that be your crew that would Yeah.
Okay. Good. And pull the vines and stuff off the back of the building. I remove them all together. Yeah. We'll just do a home. I haven't done yet, but there's stuff in the back. We cut the bottoms. 90. So
excavator, you don't have an estimate of the roof patch cost. I I just talked to him today. Uh he did say that it has to be restored to historical slate. This needs to be removed completely and then restated.
You're talking 100 plus. Yeah, sure. That's low. That's low. That's um do you think there needs to be replacement slate? Well, the only reason I mention it is
West Mass Development, which is for this whole region. They now own a portion of the Monson Monson Development Center, which is an old state hospital. They are going to demolish all the building, most the buildings, and there are slate roofs. So
if you need old slate, that might be a place where you can get it for free take to to replace the roof or attach. Um I think there's there is enough to do
the whole roof if you really wanted it, but I was only think you might want older slate. I I I don't know if it exactly matches. um center schools, but it's a better bet than some brand new sleep.
Well, it's actually based on previous people coming the we were told, correct me if I remember this differently than you do, but that the slate that was that is on there
is so brittle that patching it won't work. But getting enough slate to totally redo it might be an option. You don't have Are we talking in the long term or the short? Well, I think I think there's two
things there need after the site visit and and um PAR's structural engineering letter also says fix patch the roof because yeah it is water is your enemy
when it comes to this so long. So yeah, even if a temporary patch, you got to do it. You may be correct. Uh and both um and structural engineer and Sam Dennis uh um
preservation architect said the same thing. um inter you know but I have subsequent subsequent to that site visit I was at the Monson development center and bus mask was saying they're demolishing all the buildings
and so they don't care about roof protection right now and there um there is at least one building that's only at least one level only one story or one story little plus as compared to two or
restored, but there is enough there is enough slate if you need to harvest like that's great. Thank you. You might even need it for some tax that kind of thing too. Yeah, great resource.
Life to it still. Yeah, it's an idea. Check it out. Yeah. So no, I was just going to say who's who's doing that? How do we who do we contact that kind of stuff,
right? Well, as far as the slate's concerned, I guess depend on because there's two different qualities. one that school of arrows bio where it's made out of works harvested from there's a believe it took the jology that quality that was a much better slate
perhaps see and it would depend on where that slate came from but it would be bother but some would have to be able to assess that I guess those people work with tele but it would be good
if we were to the original slave group and we can get it for a reasonable amount of money but then for the cost of having to somebody put on a slave group and whether or not we can harvest enough to be paper worth um that would be my concern.
We're looking into it. It's got got a life and but if they're not charging anything well if it's whether or not we get 50 years 100 years out of it or five years because they slave off
and if we can if we can harvest enough and it's if the cost is fair enough then it's worth doing right but my question is is what they do in the project and attached with say aluminum flashing in order to just get
us past that time frame to make it as cheap as possible. Hawkins roofing is like the guy he's a sl that's kind of just how it is. He doesn't everywhere. Oh, sure. kind of roll.
I'm sure he's a quality grouper without question. Just trying to think if we're going to put money into it, how much cheapest patch I said we're on we're on budget because that was my questionable but not
and my understanding is that he also has his own lift equipment and so there wouldn't be a need to coordinate with other projects. um which I know was a concern. Thanks for following up on it, Garrett. That's good. That's good news. All right. Are do we have any other
immediate pressing questions about the roof repair? We're feeling pretty good. Can you get us emails an introduction? And if it if it's not financially viable, I I have no skin in this
good resource. Yeah. But I when I was there they might be right. There's all this. Yeah. You can't put I'm assuming can't put another different one because it's historic.
They don't get state funed money. It has to be this one. There is a synthetic slate but the historical commission. There's one grand that they have. It's called Da Vinci. Da Vinci that NASA
Historical has approved. They used it on the library in Conway, which is how we found out about it. What is it called? Yeah, it works. Considerably lighter. It's lighter.
Match the color. Yeah, I mean they that's one thing they market is that they can give you the same color. Yeah. Um the same actually make it to order. So they same width and texture. Well, which is why
it's been approved by a shipo then it should be. So so that's what we were aiming for is a cheaper alternative. But if you use cheaper and that is more viable. So
maybe I we either way funding either way. The question is will they will somebody remove it from the MSON buildings in a way to not break
it. That really would be the cost. You know, you have to have somebody up there. Professor Luther will take it off. Calis on the edge lined up in their crates which I mean you might never seriously
know that stuff for free and take it all said could be a great idea be it's not that great not worth it money wise it's time effort it's not worth
it's resource you go I like Thank you. We only get the ground water from the basement too. So the those trees out front don't help and the gutter in the back
if it was just extended like a run keep it away. I think I looked at close enough to remember if that was up top was failing or whatever it is just just you won't even need a ladder for that
one just fell off. So yeah probably it's that time of year. It's so exciting to hear it's on your list. It's a big list.
I got a big list. It's a big list. But it's really for me it's really exciting to do this. This has made it to your list. How much money do we have? We have price. How much money is just the badge?
That's an unknown. Um this this would come out of the CPA's administrative expense fund. which was not which was CBC this preservation money
has control over they don't need to take projects out of that town so so they're intended as sort of small things to help a bit project this would qualify for there's $12,000 I
think annually in the bucket and that has to pay There are some ongoing expenses. Anyway, my guess is since it's so early in the fiscal year, I'd be surprised if they go more than 7500, but
just have a rough idea. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it could be late for we haven't had any big projects lately. We haven't had any fall on the administrative expense money.
That's what's funny from here. Unfortunately, what happens is that if anything's left over the end of the year, it just gets rolled over into a general fund. It doesn't we start over again the
next year. But we were able to encumber some for the instruction. So you you would like us to check in with the CPA about what's available? I get what doesn't work that way quite get an we need Oh, we need the estimate.
Oh no. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to look at But you just gave him a ballpark, right? Yeah. That's Yeah. Is this a $10,000 job or a $5,000 job? You know, are we getting close? Yeah. So they would They have agreed to meet
as soon as there's something for them to look at. Okay. I'll get a Okay. A quote from Too bad we don't have somebody on that. So, we're feeling good about the roof. Um, about being on Garrett's list. We've got the down spout on there and
everything. Are there any outstanding notes or points of interest on the roof repair? Taking that as a no. Awesome. Just to thank. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh
I think we are still probably like 20 minutes out from having the structural engineer here. Do you want to go ahead and talk about the draft survey? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Awesome. So, in the packets you guys all got um you
should have a version two draft survey. Should look like this. Um you'll flip past it to find these um responses to the
comments and feedback, some explanation of how she incorporated things. And then one after that is just verbatim the comments that you guys all wrote sorted by question. I do realize I forgot question three on this, but everything
is also written in Cathy's comment. So all the information is covered. I think now is probably a great time everybody take a couple minutes take a look at it. Um and then I'm going to hand it over to Kathy afterwards to hear from her
perspective. Has everybody taken a peek at it already? No, I read it. Everybody Okay, awesome. I'll hand it to Cathy um and hear from her. Well, I think I think what I I really want to find out is um if people are comfortable
with how I incorporated the comments and if there's any other further tweaks or refinements that I want to say thank you for all the comments. I really appreciate it and thank you for some of you drafted questions that I've used and sometimes I shortened it but um they
were all very helpful. So, thank you. Um and um there was at the outset when we were kind of gathering there was the discuss on the beginnings of a discussion. Well, how do we distribute it? So when I draft surveys, I always do
it on paper or in so that can be emailed or um in print and but I intend to use um survey software where I use survey gizmo which is very similar to uh survey
monkey um to so that the survey can be done on someone's phone, it can be done on their laptop or their you know um um pad or desktop computer, whatever digital device they tend to use. Uh I
can generate a QR code. So I think that might help with um distributing it if you wanted to do it through the scoop or any other print media. Uh I was also anticipating that there be a link so
people can just click on it if you're sending it out digitally. Uh, it occurs to me that I might need to put a bit link in to make it short. So, in case someone has to retype it, which I'm
happy to do. Um, but just so um, and I think it's always helpful. Some people still prefer paper over digital means to um, do both. Um, so if you want to have paper cop paper copies at town hall or
the library or any other location, I'm comfortable with that and then we can gather them and then add it compile it and incorporate it in the digital results. So if it will be reported that
as a whole so no response whether it's on paper or online will get left out. Um, I talked to Rusty before today and Rusty's willing to make
um do a flyer um and help um um put that out on all the town social media. Um but I also think it helps to talk up doing the survey. So when you know with friends and neighbors in weight um there
was some suggestion that maybe we should get input from people who may not who may spend time in weight or be in um interest in weight center but may not live in um directly in weight um
which I find and that's why on question three it's like where where you live in a in a nearby town or uh Waitley. Um I really see Wley as the primary audience, but we're providing an option based on
feedback from last meeting. So that's kind of how I see the roll out. I know the scoop deadline, I think, is Friday. Is it or the third? The third. Excellent. The third. Okay. And we have a Judy did a great job. She's drafted something for us to get
the word out there that we can look at. Well, we can get the we can generate the QR code and link all this week's um assuming if there's any other feedback in we agree to what do you think the time
frame is for setting up the information? What's the time frame? Do you have an idea? Oh, like how long the survey will be open? here. I hadn't given it any thoughts. I was going to ask you.
I think it helps on the flyer to have a deadline because some of us are deadline people and it's like um you might you know you might put it off and it's like if you know the deadline you finally you get it done.
So, you want enough time to get it out, but you don't want to have a long period of time because then people will put it out and forget about it. So, I generally think about 3 weeks, maybe four weeks at most. It might be helpful,
uh, we're meeting on September 24th. It might be helpful to have the deadline the 23rd. Well, I would um Is that too soon?
Let me ask you this. Going out. So, yeah, you might want to do it more like the 22nd. Is there a select board meeting that week on Monday? The only reason I'm saying is that might be an opportunity
to to remind people who might be listening online to don't forget to get out your survey or if there's any aoc reminder call. Yeah. Um
the 23rd 27th of September. Yeah. When are we talking about having this out? The deadline for the scoop is the 3. When will we actually get it in our mailboxes? She'll do the
So, are um I have I have a couple questions. Um is the expectation that we're sending out the survey to everybody or that we are making it available to folks? What it sounds like is that we're going
to make it available through anything that needs to be sent out online and even delivery if necessary so we can blanket as many opportunities. Okay. As possible. Yeah. And maybe with thinking about the
delay in terms of, you know, if the deadline's the third, give people, you know, four. It's probably not going to get out until the at least the 8th. Right. That's now she won't. Oh yeah. And so maybe maybe
office on the following line for this is the third whatever descriptive thing we want to put about the survey in the scoop. If we are putting a survey itself in the scoop which I didn't realize had
a cost. So that's a separate piece to discuss. The deadline for that would be the folding date. So that would be later. I think that we would likely only have our article
advertisement in the scoop. I don't see us putting the whole survey in there. That's what it came before. Oh, that Oh, that's how you guys did it before. Okay. I was aware of that. And there are often additions in the suit. Okay.
From the historic society. Yeah. From whatever. That's just waste day. Yeah. I delivered a bunch of pump. Yeah. So that's an additional mechanism.
But did we do it in the scoop that time? That's how they got it. Okay. So can can we start with that decision? Do do we put the whole survey in the scoop in addition to an article?
Yeah. I mean, it's not my decision to make. Whatever. Do you have any budget? Um, so we I have three in community development. I have three grand a year for everything that I do. Um,
you're probably talking under $100. Yeah. Okay. So, that sounds doable to me. I don't I don't see howund like Maybe I don't know if it's not we then need if it if it's being mailed which on one level I think that gives nice distribution
um where people go drop off or they go mail back their survey and you know there's a value of seeing it um you know I would still like to encourage people to do digital responses
because then I have my office has less data entry to do Um, but I I have no objection to it being mailed because I'm comfortable because some people prefer print. But we've got to figure out we've got to tell people in the scoop where to
drop it off or where to mail it to. Yeah. Yeah. Well, right. But we do that for any paper copies. And I I would suggest
the transfer center, the library here, and for drop off. You mean for drop off? Yeah. Are there other Can you say those four places again? Said three here. Town offices, the
transfer center, the library. Okay. kind of assuming we can't do post office but post any of the post offices maybe we can do town hall I don't know
it's locked usually that's what I'm wondering very um other there other places unless we ask a place like muffins to to breed
Um, I think three is sufficient. Yeah. I don't think there needs to be a whole garage. So, what I'm hearing is we'd like to put the survey into the scoop. Um,
I didn't I didn't catch whether we decided if we were going to mail physical copies of the survey out or not. We said yes. We did want to do that. The scoop does that. The scoop does that. is mailed to everyone. Um, okay. So, that is how we're going to
handle it being mailed. Uh, people can drop them off at the transfer center, library, or town offices. Yes. Yeah. If we were to say, if we were to put a article, small short article describing what
we're doing, also put Bitly link and the secret or whatever that is, you said QR code there, add that to it. So anybody who wanted or was reticent to be able to do anything in paper or form and didn't have time to go deliver it, they could
if they're so inclined, they could also address it through. I think that's what we did something effect last time and it was effective. We got online approaches and we got paper copies back as well. Okay. Yeah, that sounds great to me. I think you could set up a link at
weight.org instead of link. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's just say weightly.org. orgs survey or something. Yeah, we can do that. [Music] That's cuz none of us have to do it. All righty. So, we've talked a little
bit about distribution. We're using the scoop. We'd like a rooc call put out to let people know. The scoop is going to mail it out to people. people are going to drop them off in person at the transfer center, library or town offices. We'll have a web page so people can engage with it there. In the scoop
in our article, there will be a QR code and the physical web website link so people can either scan the QR code or type in the website link and they can access the survey that way. Does that feel like a fair and true summary of
what we've just discussed? We would also be posting in three different locations. Notices notices. Yes. Posting notices. Those could go in more locations. Yeah. Like the post office. Well, not post
office. There's still people notices. I say, don't they? Yeah. Okay. [Music] And can I just check? Can we decide that there will be a drop off at the transfer
station? I have to ask or your office. Can there be an envelope at the door? Sure. So, at least we know that location. Yeah. So
when I'm talking about this stuff right now, this stuff happening is pursuant to me talking to these people and going, "Hey, this is what we're planning on doing. Is that all right?" And they go, "Yes, that's all right." Because I am, of course, not the authority on many of
these places. Uh, but yes, assuming that the transfer center and I I know that Cynthia's not going to have a problem at the library, but that's why I asked about the transfer center. There's not going to be a problem here. Yeah. Um, all right. Awesome. Do we have
other questions, concerns, or comments? Timing. Oh, yes. The timing was the folding or the assembly of the scoop is usually the Sunday after deadline,
which would get in the mail the next day. So it won't get to people probably till Wednesday, the following Wednesday with a deadline of the third. Yeah. So probably get in people's hands
by the 10th. So So the this is good for the third, the folding on the 7th. Why don't we make the deadline September 30th? cuz that just kind of feels
specific. It gives you that 3 weeks. I can give the committee a preliminary report on the 25th as to how many how many responses we've gotten at least digitally. Um
I at that point I can update on physical responses as well. Yeah. And so we can have a sense and we can also figure out what we need to do to make a final push. Um but I think it would help if you know this committee or
the select board or the historical um society and committee you know announce it at their meetings and kind of help remind people um um and you know maybe a robocall the
week of the 22nd. Yeah, I'm not available to revise the draft, so I hope somebody else this draft. All righty. Are there any more questions, comments, concerns around the
distribution and advertising of the survey? I'm taking that as a no. Um, oh, we have Mike Mitchell in the living room. I hope I been keeping waiting. Um, so glad he put him up on the screen for
us here. Hey, Mike, can you hear us? Yep, I can hear you. Awesome. It's great to be meeting with you. How have you been? pretty good. How are you? Awesome. U Thank you so much for the
structural engineering report. We got to take a look at it this morning. Um and I'm going to pass it over to you and Kathy to fill us in. Hi. Hi, Biz. Um and I'll just do some opening com. Do you want to do some
opening comments or um because uh Rusty I sent it to Rusty first thing this morning before I saw your email. So there was a little minor edit. It's been made in the copies that were handed out to the board. There are no errors in the copy that the board has.
So I don't know if you want to make any opening comments about it. Um, I mean, if you haven't read it, it I'm basically saying in the report that the building's um, structurally, you know, not in
terrible shape, but definitely has some issues that it should be should be taken care of, you know, starting with the roof. Um, if you want to keep this thing in good condition for refinishing later, I think the roof is the priority. Great. You made a plan for that while
you were in your other meeting. So, good on the same page. Um, so I think one of the key things Mitch found is that in terms the um,
you know, you've got approximately 2,000 square ft on on 24,400 square ft on the uh, first floor, but thinking about the attic as usable, occupiable space. Um
Mitch's recommendation from a structural engineering perspective is that does not have the structural support for either storage or live load usage. So, while that has while you can stand up in the
attic, it's um for um and it it's fine that we've gone up and visited, but if people were living there or people were, you know, using it actively, that's probably not a good idea. you want.
Yeah, it could possibly be done, but the issue is is those those that trust isn't really a fully designed trust. It's um as something kind of an archaic trust.
The connections are not going to work, I don't think, the way we would intend them to per code this these days. They obviously work for what's there, but to load rate them is going to be difficult at best. Um, essentially you'd be
redesign and reanalyzing the whole truss and roof system. So, I don't I mean, there's no guarantee it works. It um may work with additional strengthening. Um, I don't know if that's a direction we'd want to go in, but it's possible. It's
just with what's there and what I saw is is not a good idea to use it as is. I think I think that's a good point. So when I said that based on an um structural engineering letter that's based on current conditions, money can
always do a lot of things. Um so yeah, could you upgrade the structural um level for the attic? Possibly. Um, and it's a question then of tradeoffs and how much money it costs. So, um, so I'm
not going to say no, but there's costs. But what just I know some about construction, but I don't have the language totally down. What are the trusses?
The um, it was like the the metal part that is kind of in the center that holds on. Yeah, the the trusses are there's two of them up in the attic. Um they run over the I wouldn't say the center of the classrooms. They run between the inner
two windows uh and post down at the uh brick at the exterior wall. And then we we didn't observe a post on the inside because this finish is in the way, but we I believe that there may be a post in there holding them up. Um they they're
pretty archaic. They don't look like they were designed by any kind of engineer. I don't think they did that level of design at that time. Um, but there there's two of them and they hold the ceiling joist which span if
you're looking at the front of the building that there holding joist that span left right and the trusses run um from front to back of the building and they support the roof and they support
the attic floor. So doing the masonry tear on the bottom of the roof rafters doesn't how much does that address this concern?
The the masonry are um you're talking about the connections on the top of the roof joists, right? That's what the trusses are doing. No. Okay. Yeah. Okay, Carrot trying to picture.
We're lucky we got him here. The building inspector guy is here. So, this is Garrett Barry, our building superintendent. Um, he's going to be coordinating a lot of our repairs and things. And so, he's giving us a quick lesson about roofs.
What a crush. bec and the reason I'm asking is because we have been told previously that the brick surround on the base of the attic that
that work was significant to supporting the roof. You need to have buildings with the bottom up. You need to have a strong structure here. Here masonary work that's right here. Yeah. Has to support that whole room
right on this. This is the truss head and this stone right here set up. So this isn't good. That's not right. But so my question is if the masonry is good, how much does that
address the concern Mike's raising about the dresses? Is it or is it question? It's not good now. But that's when she's talking. She's asking if the masonry were fixed. But you get
is that enhance the structural stability? Right. because we've been going on the assumption that the masonry needed to be fixed. Well, masonry does need to be fixed because it's part of your building your your building envelope as what we would
call it in construction, right? But I don't mean just the periphery. You mean specifically that remain in the attic? is part of that, but it um and Mitch,
correct me if I'm wrong, but it's almost like the masonry and the walls are kind of doing a perimeter support, but then you also need the existing wood flooring is almost like a deck that's not
attached to the firmly attached to the edges and there's only limited structural support for that area. So it doesn't have the benefit of so we're supporting the carrier floors as well as
the um traditional load supported wasn't designed it's almost like a podium you know it's almost like a table podium and then you have a frame around it was designed to be an attic right
some addicts I've been in enough buildings where some addicts are attached and there is structural support but this so did I explain that okay well
for the most part I think yeah um the I guess as far as the masonry is concerned with the trust there's really no not not a huge relationship there the the masonry is plenty strong vertically to support the trust pretty much anywhere the masonry issues are sort of
separate from the structural issues. I think uh well some of them play together. Um but one of the recommendations I had in my report was basically to repoint the building. It's more for water uh intrusion. Um also you
don't want bad mortar joints in in the wall in general. It's just it's a it's a maintenance item. It's expected on buildings like this. Um the issues with the masonry walls really has to do with I believe it's the southwest corner. Um
where you can see that the top two courses separated from the lower portion of the wall. Um it's not 100% clear what happened there. Uh I have some thoughts on it. I put them in the memo. I I it's
possible that one side of the truss is settled somewhat creating a kickout force at the top of the wall just due to the configuration of geometry. It's also possible that the roof framing or the trusses the beams
supporting the rafters there are a little undersized causing them to sag and put some lateral force onto the top of the wall that would cause it to want to slide outwards. Um, I've never seen it something where where the two courses separate like that. Um, it must have
been a really weak mortar joint. There's no other way I can see how this would have occurred. Um, but yeah, as far as supporting the trust, the masonry doesn't really have any issue doing that. That answers that
question. I know all of you been I think all of you been in the building. I think everybody but the car with the search. And I I think the other um another key
finding is the live load support for the first floor is sufficient for residential but may need some reinforcement for light commercial. Um so that that's from my perspective a
budget. Excuse me. Is office space considered black commercial office space? Is there a difference between office space and residential spaces? Floor load.
Um office space is a little bit more than office space is generally 50 pounds per square foot. Residential first floor is 40. You know, sleeping areas is 30. Um, so I I did a quick little grading on
what was shown in the existing drawings that you know was sent sent to make the blueprints. Um, based on what they have for information, um, I was seeing that you could get the 40 PSF live load to work. Um, you'd have to make some
provisions if you're going to build partitions on there. Uh the code generally says to hold 15 psf for partitions, but that's for a typical um large uh typical building you'd see nowadays. The code used to be 20. I
would conservatively hold 20 since the walls are tall and I don't know what kind of configuration you're going to have. So you had capacity for the walls and the live load for residential on the first floor based on the information I got.
Um, for office, like I said, it's 50. Then you're going to add the 20. It it may work. I didn't check it for office specifically, but um, in general for like commercial is generally around 100 PSF, 80 80 to 100. Um,
that would most likely require some kind of resupport of the uh, floor joist at the center. I believe the span at the front of the building had a decent capacity there where the stairs are, but under the classrooms, you'd probably
need a beam under the two spans for each classroom. So, four beams and some columns. Curiosity, how much would that reduce the head space in the basement? Uh, I don't think it would reduce it any more really than it is because there's
already a beam there. So the new beam would probably be similar depth to the old beam. Is there any way out of curiosity is there any way of supporting that trust so the upstairs did hold 40 pounds?
Um it's possible. Like I said those connections that I saw at the top of the truss, they're not locked in. If you look closely at them, they're shimmed. I don't know why whoever built it shimmed it, but that's not a good way to to make that connection. It's all being held
together by one bolt. Um, then the the other issue is I didn't we didn't have any finishes removed. So, a lot of time in archaic construction, the member the lower member may be notched. Sometimes they, you know, you would key the the
joist into the girder. Um, and that's generally something you you can't really do or shouldn't be doing. Uh, I just had to deal with this on another historic building where those those notch connections just don't work. I'm not saying that's what's there, but that's
there's a good chance that that's what you're going to uncover under the floorboards and that would all have to be strengthened, rectifi rectified, and um, all those joists would likely need to be resupported. um
it's doable, but you might end up having to build a truss on the outside of the truss that's, you know, structurally correct in order to do that. You were saying that that the sleeping zone or sleeping area is 40 pounds per
square foot. Sleeping area for residential is generally 30 per square foot then shape or what you're saying. Well, what was that? I missed it. I was just saying if it's 30 pounds per
square foot that the third floor or the attic wouldn't support 30 pounds per square foot any way, shape, or form without significant addressing. I I I can't certify the truss um without inspecting the whole thing. Um if it's
not uncovered and I can't see it, I can't really load rate it. So um at this point, I I I would not recommend using it. You wanted to do some destructive investigation. It could be something we could look at
feasibility of. Um hearing. Uh yeah, let me see. Thank you. I'm sorry. Bless everybody. You're hard to hear. Yeah, you are soft spoken. Mike, can you repeat what you said?
Sorry. Yeah. Can you hear me better now? Yeah. Um let me see if I can hear some more volume over here. I can put on a headset and see if that works better. Is that any help? I think I've got
fine. I can hear. Okay. Is this any better? Oh, that's clearer. That's clearer. Yeah. All right. Um, so as far as that trust goes, I without doing a little bit more
investigation, I I don't know if I could even load rate it. um the bolts, the the connections at the corners of the truss aren't really something that that you can put a rating on.
Um so it's possible, but a lot of time like the best way to find out is to to pull the floor off and look at all the connections and see if it works. But I just have a feeling based on experience
um that it you may run into issues that may not allow it to work well. I mean, you you can try anything, I guess. Um but I don't I can't really guarantee it's going to work if you you do all the work to to open it up and
look at it. It does work as a ceiling. It's never really been occupied. I I don't have an issue leaving it the way it was. Um but to to change the use of it um would require a bit more analysis and
review of existing construction and we do that. How hard is it to do more analysis? Um the the analysis isn't all that difficult. Um, but like I said, I'd want to see how those joist, those ceiling
joists are connected um to the to the bottom cord of the truss. I'd want to see how the joints look where the diagonal members come back down into the truss. See if they have failed. Um there's nothing that's saying they did, but I I can't see, you know, what the connections look like. It's covered by
floorboards and underneath is a ceiling. Um, how how accessible can we make what he needs to see? You do first, but is there possible? Well, and there's also the question of
of further analysis is done, what's the price tag look like on that? Is that something that would be included in what we're doing, which I I'm not sure it would be. Um, it's not included in the current proposal, but um
Mitch and I can talk and I can get a more so that you all can consider it and then we then we can figure out a strategy from there. That sounds good. Yeah. I'm not sure that we're in a
particular hurry, but if if we start doing any work on the building, that would be the time to know if we're going to try and deal with the attic. And it be it'd be a shame to not bother
to find out what the state of things. Yeah. Yeah. And this is also why I I always like when you you're doing a feasibility study, especially on an older building, to do some structural home analysis because you never know
what you're going to find, right? Um, and it's always I don't always let the news, but it's better to know because then you can make contingency plans instead of that type of and and like a daycare center for
example, which somebody at one point had proposed. Is that the same rating for the attic? Is um I I think that the weight limits are the same. when you get to things like daycare, that's when you have to worry about like lead abatement and other
types of hazard mitigation. So that's just uh that's my two cents in terms of that. A child care center would not be the same. Oh, it's not as a um it will be closer to low limits for schools as compared to
residential. And I'm deferring to you because I'm not I clearly Um this is out outside my primary focus and that's but more pianos and uh
yeah I mean if you've got it's one thing to do a family daycare center which is you know five or fewer kids. This used to be a large family. Um, but if you have like 12 kids all jumping up and down,
right, which is not unlikely, and then to have at least two or three adults, you're getting we're more than a single senior. Yeah. Yeah. We've all seen in the newspaper or
on the news accidents about porches falling down this or that because someone had a party and you know there were 10 15 people on point or death or whatever. It happened in a frack house at UMass when I went to UMass. So like it happens
to house. No, I know it happens and and you're exactly right. This is why doing this now in conjunction with the feasibility was important. There's $1,500 more CPA
um structural engineering. Well, my only concern is before we go further in discussing this report, I would like to actually read your I haven't done well because I just got it
we take take advantage. I'm not criticizing anything. I don't feel in a position to really judge it or Yeah. And to to that point, is there a summary of So, this is a big piece of news that is
new. Is there anything else in this report which I haven't read either? I can give you my highlights. I did have a chance to go over it real quick. So, um, like we've said, the framing may be under sized for this structure. Um, a
lot of it is a description of the stuff that we physically saw and that Mitch pointed out to us while we were there. So, a lot of it is that, um, the load analysis. Um, it I think something important about the the report
is that this is all an estimate because Mitch was very limited in the not only what he could see but in the previous documents that we could give him. Um, so it warns us not to take these numbers as like a as a sure thing. Um, the
conclusions and recommendations to prevent further deterioration of this building recommends immediate repair to the roof. Um and then roof and roof leaks and water will accelerate decay of the structure. The considerations for reuse what I took from it was that
unchanged as it is now the attic is not recommended to be used. The first floor is recommended for reuse especially if we are able to um have the framing checked and have it bolstered have sistering of the joists and things. And
then the basement um was recommended for reuse after moist after moisture abatement. U so those I think are the really big important things from this report. Would you concur for anything else you want to add?
Yeah, that that pretty much sums it up. Um I'm weary of using the attic for anything without further investigation. The floor is fine. the basement. Once you figure out where the water's coming from and you can mitigate that issue, I don't see any reason why you can't reuse it.
It does assess the two pores at this point without any further investigation of the attic. Louder. What's that? Oh, I'm sorry. I get yelled at for talking too loud. So, I can hear you just fine.
At least I can hear Pra. So I got to be fair. Um, where was I? So, so we have two floors that we can use theoretically with some work. The attic is is a question possibility with
your concern that it may not be feasible. Um, but if we're going to be doing any investigation to to fix the first floor to make sure that it it's meets the requirements, would it be that far of a move to check
the attic as well? Uh, we we could do it. Um it's a bit more effort because you're going to have to remove a little bit more finishes because all the connections have to be
reviewed for that truss. Um make sure that you know there's a plate washer underneath the hanger rods and we got to check and see if that lower cord member is notched which would be an issue. Um we could we could look into it a little
further. I I just don't know based on experience if it's worth it or if you want to just consider building a new truss somehow or retrofitting it right from the beginning. Um I mean once we look at the truss we're going to have to just take a look when we do a load
analysis look at down to the basement too and kind of open making sure there's a post in that wall like we assume there is. Um see if there's actually a footing underneath it. It's possible there's nothing there. I don't know. Um, older buildings with no documentation are kind
of hard in that respect. Um, you have to give an estimate of how much this is going to be. I I think we did this part. We're going to look at some order of magnitude cost estimates. And as I mentioned at the
last meeting, as we look at feasibility, um, we're good. I'm going to use a cost estimator to also look, you know, provide um conceptual level cost. So you'll
have some ranges. So like getting an estimate of what doing the new trust would cost. I think it's more order of magnitude on that at this point. Um so Mitch you know
Mitch said we do order of magnitude costs we're also as part of the feasibility study looking at it once we have some concept plans using cost estimator and that would also include some work
another consideration that I I think you should take bear in mind in terms of using the attic is accidents and it's Not so much. I mean the the dangerous access into Vietnam and any solution to
access is probably going to adversely affect the value of the main board which is the way you get from to the attic. So it could be that from an historical standpoint integrity
um is going to be a part of hard solution. Well, I I I have my other colleague Sam Dennis with Plat Anderson Freeman who was on the site visit with us is a
preservation architect and I think he indicated to me he was waiting for missions report but we want to know what kind of uses which is why we want to look at surveyed but I think he's developed a couple different concepts
for access Um um and they've done a that's their practice as historic buildings. So, but I share your concern. It's a good reminder. Yeah.
Is there enough space on that first floor to put a residence or on its own? you think I'm caring the fact I haven't opportunity to go through this but if I understand correctly you were considering that one there are two commercial spaces one residential space
if I understand it correctly uh well we've kind of left it open I mean could probably at least two residential on the ground level I mean on the first floor but you know I think we I've also heard that
people want to look at a mix of uses And there were a lot of ideas from before the pandemic about whether it's a cafe or some some kind of you know community gathering space or co you know place where people can gather to do things
whether it's some arts and culture space whether it's maker space you know um whether it's some kind of postal facility all the above so I think I think that's still an open question and um I'm interested and seeing what people
have to say, including all of you. Um, but I think getting a pulse on what Justin's, you know, might be helpful as well. And also wanting to look at market conditions. Um, I mean, we know there's a housing
crisis in Massachusetts, but that doesn't, you know, we've got to look at what the financial cost of each use is and what the market is and how the dollars and cents all work. and historic tax credits might be important to that when it I would say
will probably be important not might um to making it financially viable which is where the historic integrity comes becomes a can we go are we are we can we be done
with Mike's report and go back to the survey and the announcement of the survey Yeah, that sounds good to me. Mike, thank you so much for being with us today. We very much appreciate it. Well, thank you. All right.
Mike or Oh, I've been called Mitch. I think that's my either either one. I work with a guy uh Mike as well, and we're always confused, so I just go by my last name. Uh
so, how do you introduce yourself? Uh Mike usually if he's not around either one either one I'll answer. All right. Well, thanks. Let's talk about this survey here.
Thank you. Good jobing our comments. Absolutely. Um, we got one response from somebody. I I sent the first to the
members of the center school visioning committee one basically who beyond the three of us that have stayed on and we just got some comments back from somebody. So, there was one
note that um the zip code is that where people pick up their mail or is that what's intended? I believe we're looking for the zip code
of where they live, their house, and that is that clear to people wasn't clear to Brett. We can move forward. Yeah. Is it people's mailing address or is
everybody 01093? Everybody is going to be 09. They won't be there. That's that's why there's confusion also. They're not Well, one thing is this is over by September 3rd 30th and that wasn't going
to happen till January 1st anyway. Um the other is that the post office. Yeah. Don't I don't want to open that discussion. I just Okay. So the current status would be
status for the next two months. What's yours? How do you answer the question? What's your zip code66 or 01093? Either way, that's that's the it's the either way we want to fix with the question.
You can have street. It doesn't have to be a street address. It just has to be street. What's your like street name? Uh that I did have that sorry, but I wasn't sure how to matter. That's why does it matter where lately
you live? I think where it matters if I can jump in as to probability if somebody is in East Wley and that far burns eastly and they have no concerns over it and obviously then the demographic that's going to be
utilizing the space may be west and it'd be important with the if somebody if the if the approach is to try to unite east and westly
that it's best option. It'd be nice to know how many people in East Wley, how many people in Westley have the same interest. So, how about Eastley Westley Center? Is that a better question than your
situ? I mean, it doesn't it doesn't pull in the people from other towns, that, right? But the the concern is that there are
people who have two answers to what their zip code is, right? I do. Well, it's an open-ended question. So, people can put the picture like this, but it doesn't give us any information,
right? If we it do it if I think we don't want it to be open-ended. I think we want to be you want there to be multiple choices. No, no, we want to know how was it handled in this report
because as I recall that was one of the less than seven. Yeah. Well, that makes sense. I think we want we don't want people who have a non 01093 zip code to choose 01093 here.
This is false. Maybe I'm going to say it is what is your present zip code? Tell me. No, because the present zip code is two zip codes still. Many people.
No, it's not. No. People may perceive they have two zip codes, but they really only have one. Well, the perception is how they're going to answer the question. Kathy, I got I have a post office box. A mailing address is so
anything delivered to my house. And then I bet everybody where you live, it's where you live. Yeah. If you're going to do one, it would be where you live. We could say the zip code of your home.
East. Okay. So, because some of the zip codes stretch quite a ways for the people's homes stretch quite a ways into West Wiggly. Okay. Because
they they pick up their mail. Um Kathy, I'm curious how essential you find the neighborhood question generally. and feas
I mean we have both questions one and two I usually only use one of them I usually only use what is the zip code so because that of on many towns only have one zip code or a neighborhood only has one zip code
you have the unique challenge of having multiple zip codes um so I think we're struggling with that So, I was more interested in like what town do you live in? Yeah.
Um, if you want to know what part of Wlingley people live in, knowing what zip code gives you some sense of geography. Yeah. Not perfectly because Judy pointed
that out that people might put their where they pick up their mail as compared to where they live. Um there's health options. Kathy may not realize the extent to which there's sort of a cultural
identity in those three. I think it's like South Boston. I think they think you're right. Right. I think the question that some of us are trying to target is
how is divisions. Is there a correlation between somebody saying pertaining the distorted character of Wly Center to
Zimco to living in the town center that that we're exploring the idea of can we get East Wley residents and Westley residents on the same page?
on certain issues and if we're not can we recognize that so that we can then talk about how to address it. So maybe we ask what what section of Wley do you live in? Wait center west.
I move that if if I could jump in here real quick and I think you solved our problem a lot long before we started it is in in this thing that you wrote about the post office which is brilliant by the way. You put this map in there. Oh that'd be great. And if we could have
that map added to that and then this way folks can refer to this map when they make answer that question. That would be really helpful. The only thing I I question on this is I have looked up the website
USPS website and I think it gives us some things from Williamsburg as well. But this should accompany somebody who was using a Williamsburg post office. Like for me, I'm in a I'm in I'm somewhere between 93 and 73. I I know
I'm in the 93 area, although this being a very small map doesn't show me that. But it narrows down our options to your regional location of your home. And even if you're getting something from Williamsburg, you're still in the 0139 area. You can use that. That might
solve our problem right there. Yeah. So to summarize, it sounds like we want that to be a multiplechoice question with the choices being east, west, and center. And that we would like to insert that map so people know east, west.
So there's 3993. Okay. So we can do zip codes and map and that solves the issue. Yeah. Okay. Zip codes and map. I get a that would be wonderful. Yeah, I can also send you the digital
copy. That would be wonderful. Um, thank you. This was a helpful discussion. I think that was we're coming to a quick resolution. Awesome. Um, another question about the
survey is, and it kind of relates to question four, is are we looking for any town any are we looking for one response per household or any number of responses?
It says check all that apply. That's not for question four. Question four might lead someone to think that they're doing it for their household. They're doing the survey for their household.
And I don't know if that's our intention. Are we looking for the all four people in your household to answer this to do their own survey? We we just should decide and clarify
even if people if there's multiple people in responding for a household like you know two spouses or you know maybe a young p you know young person and that I I would encourage that because people may have very different
perspectives but it also tells us a little bit more about who's responding. Uh so having some sense of demographics is helpful. Um so I don't view this as kind of saying
that you know um this is just one response per household. I would not make that assumption based on this question. Um, you know, we could clarify that in, you know, introduction. You know, that
that's that's what I think we need to do because I just think we need to say we want as many responses as possible from all Wely residents of all ages and our neighbors,
something like that. So in the very beginning introduction not an introduction to this question. Yes. Yeah. I have it's an easy one. Question five. The
last one about the zoning will per anywhere but not burling on on site. about early. I think it um it might be useful to explore
because we can recommend changes to zoning because you can always recommend the zoning change. I the problem with the group boat is is where do you you use a lot of water? Yeah. If you have a big septic system be able to reclaim that water. That's probably
one of the reasons why that was put in there because we don't have we had public acceptance. Okay. So, do we want to stripe that part completely that section or do we want to
change it to just say pub? Thank you. Um I think people have an image of groups. they have an image of thoughts which is sometimes very different. Um but
sometime and because I think what people might say a pub like in Ireland or England is different than what people think of a pub in the US. U so I'm wondering if it's would a place
where people could stop and have both non-alcoholic and alcoholic beverages to visit or you know pub is nice and short and I like succinct but I I think a brew pub people think of people gathering and
it's more and it's as much social as um drinking um whereas I think how people perceive as like a bar tavern you yeah I would back office. When I say brew pub, I
think, oh, that's just a place where they have beer. When I think of a pub, I think of lipstrings. I think of a gather. Okay. Well, that's that's something to hear. I agree. We're grant you look it up. Well, no. I think you're probably
accurate. So just take the word through off top and see what we get. Okay. Um my only question is
does the Wly in not react to this as we have a hub in lately center? Well, they do have apartment. I know. It's very well lit. That's my windows. Well, the same is true at the
restaurant, too. I mean, it just or should we say another restaurant? Oh, so it's not, you know, I I I think that we're we're unnecessarily putting blinders. What we're asking
people is what would you like to see go in the building? And if we if we say well we couldn't possibly do that because the waiter hand is nearby and all that. I think it's we're throwing out options
that should be presented we don't want to put out often that are are less likely to I do agree they'll get right there and I'm sure that they would appreciate extra company down the road take us over business although they also draw in
business as well very popular it would bring in a lot of people so we think that this establishment would benefit by the the additional traffic help wouldn't
want to take away business from already established business in several things. So there's another issue and I don't know how to quantify it, but for this to be attractive for a business
person to take one up on, there would need to be enough parking. Yeah. Yeah. The zoning waves the required parking but the business would have to see see that there's places
kind of but there's the exact same public parking that the Wavely in uses that is not their parking town hall and in front of the library
those places are used and people are lazy but you know I as I say I can't quantify I don't know what the limits are but it's something you should
because it has to whatever we did has to make sense yeah well it would also have to make sense I mean if someone were going to come in with a proposal for a restroom and they would they would be the ones who would
urgently need to know is they is there a way to get parking here. It's on what is it? Is it a 2 acre par? No, it's 34 of an acre. It looks bigger than it is
because there's right away that's included in the in the Greek grassy area. It's not as acre. Yeah. Okay. Well, we did have an estimate of 10 spaces easily and
your guide did that parking. Yeah. And if it's one of many uses, I'm going put my downtown or town center hat on. One of the things when I worked with town centers in town is you really got to think about parking for the whole
center as a whole not on a parcel by parcel basis because one one thing that is really special about center in addition to the historic character and the fabulous views is you have sidewalks on both sides which is
beautiful pedestrian accent. All right. My city doesn't look like that. It's really kind of special and it makes center special. So, you know, it's not unreasonable expect
people to Yeah. have some spaces, but you know, you do have town hall, you have behind the post office, you have the library. Yeah. Why pave more areas, you know? Um,
think of it as, you know, you know, a group as a whole. Um, and you've already got town's already invested in public park in parking. So dur during you know
because parking requirements it's also a great way to break up the fabric of a downtown. That's how it was described to me when I was in college is that um you know having high requirements or desiring high amounts of on street or
parking lots it increases the distance people have to walk. It changes what people are seeing and it can discourage people from continuing their walk into a downtown. Um so I I really agree with you Kathy. happy that um while parking
might be something that developers are considering, I think it's really on us to prioritize. Developers will gladly um provide less parking. It's usually municipal parking requirements that require more parking
than really actually necessary. Okay. Well, then um because parking cost money to a cost. So let let's look at figuring out the use and what is reasonable parking requ
parking any commercial use there's going to be sometimes when there may be someone who has to you know park you know down the street a little and have to walk you know um because they don't unless you want to pave the whole corner.
Yeah. Um, and I think that's part of thinking about what uses. I mean, even if you had a coffee shop or a um maker space, maybe it's only a couple users at any one
given time, but there may be events or maybe occasions when it it's busier. So, you may have 10 or 12 cars. Um, okay. We're ready to move on to other pieces.
Um, one of the things that keeps haunting me with this is that anything that we put in here, any of the applicants are going to assume that they're possible, but they may not.
And that's the thing that's been haunting me. So is a community community center possible? Is it feasible to viable? Can we do that? And if you have if all of a sudden you have the whole of say the way the center say that's exactly what we need. Can we actually do
it? So is there anything that should come out because it doesn't look feasible? I said we can't use the upstairs. We got the first floor. We got the basement. Our parking is questionable to some
degree but still available. Well, we have conflicts with Whitley in if we were to consider publish a reasonable alternative. If all of a sudden the small center says, "Yeah, that'd be great. Let's go." Uh, can we
do that? Um, I would feel that would be um disingenuous to be able to offer things that we really can't pull. It didn't even come up in the last survey because the the preferred
use was a restaurant that cafe cafe I thought was actually why I think you raised an important point because you don't want to raise expectations where everyone says this is
what we want and we know from day one it's Uh, it's a no a nogo. So, and a community center people might think gymnasiums or something larger than what's even that you can fit in the
building. So, what needs a commu? I think it goes back to do we need a a community gathering space? Um, you know, and though we're on page two
be I have needs a gathering space that serves refreshments. Um, you know, doesly meet on page one way to community center. Maybe it's a community area, but that's that's kind of
then you get to like it's kind of vague and I don't know what a community area it doesn't seem to be the right term that's coming in my mind. But Rich, I appreciate what you're saying because I think when people think of community center,
um they think of some services along with programming and recreation. Part of me wants to say that we should give them the opportunity to write in what they believe they should have. And I know that opens up the possibilities to a lot of different things. And I know
what we're trying to do here is give them some options to say, "Oh, what about this? What about this? What can we do this?" Because these are some of the things that came up from the last survey. Um, and I'm trying to figure out how do we narrow this down so it serves
the targeting audience and it's something that we can actually make happen if that were to be the most popular option. and the building will allow it, but it says will the building allow it and can't we do it? Um, and do
we leave an option for them to provide another option there? There should be something at the end, but do we do it at the bottom of this so it's included in this so they have so folks have an opportunity to say, "But
none of these things or anything I'm really interested in, but it may not feasible." You know, somebody might say, "We want to put in a pet shop, but and that may not be feasible, but it let them make that decision. We're not telling you we should do a pet
shop, but we really can't." That making sense for them. Some of the point of these kinds of questions is to just get them thinking. I agree. And I
I don't think we're promising any anywhere that any of this is really treat all of this as feasible. Obviously, you get expens. I just wanted to have that conversation because it's been bothering me looking through it trying to think of that
there's another way perhaps my brain sort of think um to decide whether there's a better way of postulating the question so it serves a secret better than what we're doing and this may be the best option that we
have sometimes myself yeah well I mean let's let's stay with the specific Should we keep the Wley music community center with that phrase? They keep making a case that the town
hall is not served. Yeah, I frankly didn't understand that for exactly that reason. I believe it is it is very active all the time. So, should we take that
out from question five and leave the other references? I I like the where it is on the second faith um a gathering space that serves
refreshments and all the other specifics. excuse to do that. Does the open-ended, you know, is it more valuable in terms
of how it's making people think about things or is it a negative because it creates confusion because of the existing town hall and because it might be a good way to gauge whether
or not people see town hall as a community center that is useful. Because I think if a bunch of people said definitely needs a community center, then we know town hall isn't meeting people's needs or expectations of that just as a pitch.
Well, we already have the master plan in these studies. We supposedly got it back. So, yeah, I'm just saying it's another way to gauge that information. You were voting yes or no. We came for the question now.
Change it to another reset. Go back for additional medicine. Well, except nobody understand. I would say I think we're too much. My we are we are I think getting close to
overengineering this survey. I was gonna say exactly the same thing. I I made some edits. Kathy, you've heard the discussion. Can we leave it to you to Yeah, I'm keeping track of the edits that need to be made.
Yeah. Nonsense. Okay. So well before I forget what I'm going to say um right under that gathering space things serve refreshments I don't understand this maker space or overlooking spaces are needed new uses in lately
yeah new uses got confused me too yeah but that yes that was a written comment I received from somebody else who wasn't able to be present today uh they recommended um Sorry, I'm just looking
I'm just looking at it dramatically. I'm not totally agree with you. Yeah, just take a I was say I would phrase it as because there's kind of a cadence running lately needs blank. We could phrase it as lately needs a maker space or co-working
space because then it matches the form of other questions. Maker space or core working spaces are needed in lately. I thought either way. Yeah, both ways were. Yeah, the the new uses needs to be on the on the feasibility issue. I have
serious doubts that the zoning is allowed post office. I don't I guess we could find that out after the fact if people are interested in them. be useful to know if people are
interested. I doubt that this place can be that's another question. All right. Um then do we need to
define more either affordable housing or senior housing? They're such confusing terms or do we just I think once you This is a broad brush survey.
I would say we want people's first impressions. I don't think it's necessarily super important. I think, you know, especially with the senior housing question, it seems that people around here um would know if they
qualify. I think we're gauging general interest. So, we want to know if somebody's generally interested in it in the next few years. Um, I think we're, you know, we're going for estimations in ballparks. Um, I could see the case being made to
just put a number on what senior means. And so, just like independent senior housing, once you put numbers, I mean, on senior housing, the she most people know senior housing is either
There is a some say 55 and above some say 60 some say 65 but even if someone is 55 and others don't think by the time this is done they're getting pretty close to 60 or 65
so thinking forward that may be be an issue in terms of affordable housing I have seen definitions of affordable housing go anywhere from 80% of area median
incomes or less. And the problem with them is depends upon house household size. But then you can define affordable housing as for workforce housing that goes from anywhere from 80% of area median income, not weightling median
income to 125% of area median income. So we can do all the definitions but it's it gets it's also going to stop people from finishing the survey if they have to. I mean I think I think you know
but but I mean to some degree do I mean the answer is yes. There's no sort of do we even need to ask the question the answer to well you would be surprised. I would not assume that everyone in town would be supportive of affordable housing. I'm I
was here when you did the the last time when the town invested and created two or three affordable housing units and people were supportive uh and town meeting supported but you also got grant money for that. Um, and I think it was
Susan Wright was town administrator that um, but I think I have also been in communities where people go, "No, no, no. We don't want that because we don't want those sorts of so I think it's
better not to assume that and get get a comfort level and a lot of this has to go back to town meetings. So having some gauge of people's comfort level with different issues will help you with a town meeting strategy.
Also to some extent affordable housing is just housing people could afford to live in no matter well that's I mean yeah that's that's where the definition comes in because
everything is no longer affordable. So um but if people are then saying I have family members who may want may need and we also said affordable rental housing which is a little different than
affordable home ownership. Um and that's not to say we put explore affordable home ownership at um center school but I wanted to gauge the interest in affordable rental housing.
Um, I assume there'd be interest in affordable home ownership in Whley. Maybe, you know, um, because you are principally a community of home owners. Um, so that that there's a little bit of an um different cut on that affordable
housing question. It's not just saying it's wonderful, but um you know, I can remember a couple years ago when I was in a setting and I was surprised at this one person goes, "Oh yeah, I want affordable housing. I have kids in my
living in my basement." So I think, you know, sometimes we're surprised at who may come up and say it. Um but it you know affordability is very spongable and it
depends upon your funding sources. Um, can we address the question of why we're doing a survey now? Why we're doing another survey?
Maybe in part the answer is it really was a long time ago now. I think the one that made the most sense to Ashley is because the pandemic changed an awful lot of things. I mean, I know it's changed like travel shopping
patterns hugely, right? And it also means that people are in town and working that didn't used to be. Um, and that right there is a huge culture. I agree, Judy. That was so if you guys
remember from our site visit, this was something that we touched upon and we talked about one and it's funny because Lynn Sibly actually emailed me about this uh last week um asking why we were doing another right and from our minutes we had said one the
other one was quite a bit ago two it was precoid we are now in a postcoid world um and so the the patterns have changed the way people use things have changed and what people desire out of their community spaces has also changed. So,
let me just clarify. Let me rephrase my question. Is it valuable to point these things out in this I I sort of see this as the introduction
to the survey, right? Yeah. It's advertising it. And I I am thinking people are asking why are we doing another one and that addressing why might make sense. Yeah.
So fair enough since postco situations have changed in our society asking this again but I just I don't want anyone say I already answered that why are they think you know why are they asking again I think it's if they're they're going to say that
they are going to say that right? So I think we need to say why we're asking again. So let me I I agree. It occurred to me and I don't remember in yours the tech article do you mention that this is the second survey?
No. Okay. That's that's why she asked you must I was I was thinking the same thing. I mean I don't think I have to go into great detail. I just say it was a long time ago but this is the but this is the second. Yeah. Okay.
I'm I'm askly second um Whitley resident second survey on on the header. No, I would think in the in the this is going to be in the same
so in the introduction they decided to give a second. Sorry, I know you had to move. Yeah, I just thought it would be helpful to have something to It always helps to have something.
Okay. So, I'm I'm happy to reddraft this and send it to everybody. Um, you said you're not available. Wait, that is there any more feedback on the actual survey? Why do we ask
gender gender? Because sometimes it's sometimes you get different answers, you know, correlations to see I just say it's pretty basic demographics. Um,
in the same way that we're like, oh, we want to see east west versus central, we might find that men and women have very different desires. Um, I'll also say for me previously in my last job, we very frequently would um isolate women's responses to our surveys because we were
surveying mothers and we were looking to target youth and children and the best way to do that is is see what mothers are saying. Um, and so it can be useful in those ways. Also, if you get two of the response from women,
it also tells us about how we're advertising, how you're advertising, and also what people in general are. Maybe it's just who has time to fill out the survey. Awesome. All right, it sounds like that was that was what we had to say for the
survey. Is there any outstanding comments, questions, concerns? Um, I know at the end we also got to talk about the scoop article. Is there any other comments, edits, concerns about the scoop article?
Kathy's going to give you a Yeah, I'm going to give her a link. Yes, I will make the web page. I'm gonna send I'm gonna redraft this, send it to everybody and Rusty will incorporate the QR code and whatever.
Cab, I'll format. Um, I think I that stuff's easy for me. Good. Are there any items not previously anticipated? I have that once and um
your comments about post office. I think we need to kind of maybe share this and I can pass from um one of the things by thinking about feasibility
is looking at um what the competition is and while we don't usually think of post office as having competition they indeed do So I wanted to look at what
uh how big all the post offices were in um in the adjoining areas and who own the post office um what the size was, what their lot size was because that might be an
indication of parking. Um how old they were, how frequently they were open. Um, I also looked up um whether or not they had any carrier roots identified
and um a couple things about carrier roots. Only the Weightley and North Hatfield post offices have no carrier roots. no roots either rural or carrier affiliated with that
which means Wley's um all the mail at Whley is in yeah in the post office boxes they're not it's not a distribute any level of distribution other through postal boxes um
makes it hard to get a real ID and um the other part of that is I think what's interesting is South Dearville has um at the carrier route they have
the zip code and then it's followed by either an R which is a rural uh which is a driving route or a carrier route which is a walking route. So only south Deerfield and Cass known as carrier route um which is a walking route um
on um on post offices that h have either rural or carrier roots. I could identify the number of residences and the number of businesses as to each. So I thought that
might be an interesting just point of comparison. Um but I think I think what's um salient is that weight has a small postal facility. Um
it is the only postal facility that is on public property. Um belong to the historic society. Well, yeah, but it's the property is still owned by the town. Okay.
And at the time I did this, I did not realize that the historical society was getting rent from the post office. Historical society owns this building, but not but not the law. Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
Okay. One other competitive thing that would be interesting is how the adjacent post offices are um I have that column but I haven't finished doing
the data. So I had that I was interested in that to do this. I was also interested if I could find out when these expirations were on she sent that to us. Yeah. I just gave it to you the with the
little map. Yeah. No, I I saw that and then the date I was interested in what that was for um the other post offices.
You got a letter post. Peter Kane got it. Peter Kane got it. Yeah, I was going to say I think it got sent to the whole town after that. But yes, I did see that. All right. So Peter came to the post agency post.
No, she wants to know. But I think this is important to know whether it's for center school or for these efforts to protect its postal postal identity. Um,
I don't know that the least extent matters because I think that's a really standard lease. They they can terminate it under 2030 was the date on the lease, but yes. Yeah, they're usually have the right to
cancel it. I think they can extend it to Yeah, that can they can cancel it. I I I know that. Um All right. But um because Commonwealth does the
same thing with state leases, but they don't even give you six months. So um but I think um but what it does is point out where people anticipate there might be a change
and they might just do a renewal, but sometimes they go out for also. Um, usually they stay put once you've got Just real quick, I want to draw attention. It is 12:30. Um, I want to
make I don't want anybody to miss an appointment, but they've got an appointment. I'm happy to keep going. I've got probably another 30 minutes before I have to go do some other stuff. Um, so I just wanted to put that out there. Otherwise, we can continue conversations. This is more info.
Okay. Oh, thank you. That tells us a lot about you that you put that this interested you enough to put these pieces together. you know, I'm kind of a number, but when but when you're analizing and looking at, you know, office space or
commercial, you kind of have to look at I think understand market demand, but market competition is an important thing. And I think you can apply the same principles to community services.
I love it. I I move that. Well, before we do, wasn't it next month that we were talking about changing our meeting? Yes, I need to. So, let's just confirm to the Thursday
to the Thursday, right? I had talking about the 25th instead of the 24th. Yes, I believe so. 99 September 25th 25th
30. Yeah. Has anybody had a direct communication with Becky Jones? I want to say yes. I feel like she was she might have emailed me recently. I
know I've forwarded stuff to her and span and um she's in the third person. You've included her and everything. I directly communicated with her saying, "Oh me, I want to talk to you." She's the
she's the one person on our group who doesn't like the daytime meeting time. she's at work and so I just want to keep her in mind and make sure she still feels connected. I reached out to her to
talk to me directly. If if she's happy, I'm thrilled. A time is great for the rest of us. All right. Question on the southfield 1073. three roots here. Is one of these roadways? We have to make a We have to second the
motion and vote through. Yes. I'm thinking um Judy's curious about the motion to adjurnn. Are we are we already there? I say we can keep chatting in here. I'm not going to close the room right away,
but I know that folks want to head out and then this is good for my minutes and my recording. Um