Thank you. Welcome to the Weightley Finance Committee meeting Tuesday, January 20th at 5:07 p.m. We'll begin with the agenda first to uh welcome Lynn Sibi to the committee. It's nice to uh see you and welcome aboard.
We have quite a full cast tonight. >> Thank you. >> Our first agenda item is to discuss and vote on potential committee reorganization. Do we want to wait until Paul can >> I'm sorry. >> He's just out. >> Agreed. Yeah,
>> agree. Let's do that. Okay. Uh moving on. Second item, review, discuss, and vote on the previous meeting minutes distributed. >> Uh I'd like to make a motion to pass those minutes. I read them online. >> Second. I'll second that. Great. HD. All
in favor? >> I I >> Okay, great. Motion passes unanimously. Uh, next item is discussion of the senior center director, but I don't see her here. Is she coming tonight? I failed to remind her the date that she
had selected for this so we can bring it up during her budget presentation. She just wants to give an update essentially on what they're thinking about doing for the 112 road. >> Yeah, it's a complicated opportunity, but see,
next item, discussion with the highway and building superintendent regarding 2027 budget development. Who is yours? All right. Um, I'm Eric, the new highway superintendent. We had everybody think All right.
Um, I was wanting to discuss a new vehicle maintenance slash the term is horrible lease program for vehicles to to rotate vehicles into the to the mix on a fiveyear plan and a four
year three. I mean, that's how we read it out, but um basically it comes the money comes from a it's a short-term borrow type type thing. It's really the lease is is a terrible word for it, but at the end of the borrow, you you own
the vehicle, so you don't have to give it back. >> So, you rent to own. >> Yeah. It's kind of like a car payment that we would have on our own vehicle. We buy something, it's a car payment for five years. In five years, you own it. >> You own. So it's not like a lease where you rent you lease a Honda Accord and
after five years they take it back. >> No. >> Okay. >> And it's a terrible term and then use it and I don't know why. I asked the owner of All American Investment Group and he says, "Tell me about 45 years." >> I try to explain to people that you own it at the end. >> It's basically just finance finance.
>> We've done it with the excavator and >> um >> bill goes in as debt service. It goes in as debt service. Yeah. >> Is there any difference between them financing it and this concept? >> I have a feeling it's going to be the same thing.
>> It's the principal wise problem. Okay. It sounds like >> um our other ones were through Kansas State or something like that. That was the excavator and the wood chipper. >> Oh, >> we had both of those as
>> a lease to own. >> But it was basically a borrow. Yep. So, this one here is a is a private equity group that owns they don't sell it out like a bank. So, this will this belongs to the the president of this is Ron Klein. He owns the company where he's
the one that keeps he doesn't sell anything out. He's been this is forever. It happened. We used him for as long as I can remember. It borrowed the money from him. Then you have a list of things you pick out like what are we going to do next year? this item and this item and then you can come up with a a foral
scenario like a $350,000 four year, three year, five year, six year or sevenyear plan and then you make the payment on on the plan and I I have make copies of a store. >> So is this to replace or update all the vehicles?
>> All the vehicles for ambulances and fire trucks because they're just too much. But if you want to buy a new fire truck, that's a billion plus. >> But you're you're all vehicles in the highway department >> and and police. If you want to buy a new police cruiser or a new pickup truck for
the fire department or that kind of thing, you know, we just did cruisers two years ago, I think. >> Yeah. So, right now we have a >> we're on a rotation. >> Yeah. We have a plan where we say, "Okay, a dump truck lasts for 15 years and we're going to buy if we have three of them, we're going to buy one every five years." So, we essentially have the
same expendure every year. Yeah, >> we're getting a new truck every 15 years. >> That's not working anymore. >> Okay. And so and then it goes to capital planning and then it goes to town floor and we vote um right whether we're going to spend the money to buy this and that's how we purchase things right now.
>> Right now. >> So >> how is this different than that? >> So when you go to town meeting and you need a new builder at $300,000, the town doesn't have to take that huge $300,000 hit all at one time. You can go to town meeting and vote on the vehicle lease
program. The the number you're going to vote on is say 111,000. That's just a line item number. Vote on it or no. And then that number comes back and say, "All right, we have 350,000 or 500,000." And then that money
is brought to my attention. We go through we we have to decide on what vehicles we need. Do not have to spend all this money in this lease. If you take 300,000 for four years and you only want 250, 250 it is. It's not you don't have to spend the whole
>> question. How did we get from 111 payments to a 4year plan on a So if you were going to do a 350 borrow $350,000 borrow three years at 5.82 it's $123,325 um a year.
>> Got it. So, do you vote on it every year? The 100,000 or you vote once for three years? >> One payment. Yep. One budget. Comes with a line item budget. >> Line item debt service. So, you do vote on it each year. Now, going to be uh in we have a a debt service budget that you
have to approve every year. And that would be a line item. It would just repeat it like we did with the previous lease agreements. What would happen at the town? No, >> that's Yeah, >> that's I was probably >> It is essentially you've obligated yourself.
>> The previous ones you only regular leases you only had to vote >> you vote to do the borrowing once, you vote the line item each year. >> Yeah. >> So, the line item for paying the debt,
but you vote to do the borrowing one time. Theoretically, you could vote to do the borrowing and say, "No, we're not going to pay it this year." >> No, I think you're oblivious contract. >> When we do the budget, we don't do it by
>> every we don't do separate votes on each of the items. You're voting on the budget, right? >> So, so in layman's terms right now, so that I people can kind of understand this. So instead of having a separate lease for
every single piece that we have, which is essentially we're financing every single piece, >> you're going to say, "Okay, I have a I have a $100,000 budget this year for lease expenditures for equipment that I need, and a dump truck's going to cost me 40, and a pick is going to cost me this, and a loader's going to cost me
this." As long as you can make it fit inside your budget of a hundred that you're >> you have the discretion to make it >> work. That that that's how this works. Is that essentially what it is? And who has the oversight to see that you're spending the money wisely? Does
that go to capital? Does that >> I mean he did it in the past. It was the director of public works. >> Okay. >> So he went through with the fire department. Fire department came to us and said maybe that's when we need pickup. What's the matter with your pickup? You know what makes it that we want to you need a pickup? What is the
the reasoning behind it? Okay. >> Well, it's got, you know, a lot of miles on it, leaks of oil or whatever like that. And then we say, "All right, then we'll go go get that pickup and if it needs to be replaced, we'll replace it." That goes on to the list. >> And at the end, we just finalize the list. Make it fit into the number that
you're at. >> So, who has that responsibility? >> I got it. >> Sorry. Anybody? You have to pick somebody to do it to be in charge of it. >> I would think you would make a presentation of the select board and say, "This is how I
was called finance." >> I want to be the select board. I guess >> I would think it would be capital. Yeah, because you're in capital. >> Yeah, you're making investments in capital,
>> but capital goes in their advisory, right? >> Well, >> yeah. >> So, it's finance. >> Okay. >> I thought we had >> You do own reserve funds. >> Okay. >> You have some. So um I reached out to um
a former selection in Hatfield um Diana Zel. She was on select for a long time. She's a close friend of mine and I asked her about this and she said Hatfield was very against this. It was first proposed like 10 or 15 years ago.
>> Yes. But since then it's a godsend. They love it because it's a fixed price every year. It's not we need $300,000 to buy a dump truck this year and 500 to buy this and 50 to buy that. She said it's a uniform payment across the board. They
love it. It's allowed them to modernize their fee, get rid of all of these stuff that's not worth having anymore. She wouldn't recommend a high enough. >> So I have two questions. >> One is are they on the bid list?
>> Who where you buy them from? Yeah. But who you're who you're doing this lease program with? >> Oh, what's the bid? >> The state bid list for procurement purposes. >> They didn't have to. I'd have to look. >> Yeah. So, I'm just otherwise we'd have to go out the bid. >> Yeah. Well, we want to shop
>> to find to find rather than guarantee that this >> I can't guarantee anything but like that that scenario right there. >> And I know they come up by now. I looked at when we were thinking about we need a new floater. So the purchaser CM wood
here's the quotes and here's and they do the same thing. They break these numbers down if you want to buy that loader on a breakdown four-year plan there. I said, "Well, how do how do you guys do it?" Well, we use a sky, Ron Klein from All American Investment. Oh, okay. So, I know Ron, too.
>> So, they're using the same system as they are seeing Woodies to purchase new equipment from them. >> If you want to break it down and do that, it's the same person. Okay. Who is it? >> It sounds like you're this person, this
Ron Klein is dealing with a bunch of different vendors. Is that it? >> Yep. >> Um, >> I still wonder what Yeah. >> I'd like to know how Hatfield selected. Did they go through a procurement process in order to select client and
then do they have to go through a separate procurement process for everything that client is then identifying where that it's being sourced from? that that's I'm curious how that works because there are procurement requirements and restrictions. So%
>> Yeah. >> And then the other thing is when we purchase vehicles, >> we obviously have to insure them, but when when you own them outright, we don't necessarily have to insure them at a certain level like you would on a leased item
>> cost. Is it going to increase our insurance costs? Our property insurance costs or interesting point. >> Yeah. So, that would be the one because we're they're going to have different criteria requirements for replacement if >> should know the answer to that, right?
>> 15 years. >> They're very happy. >> So, the town of Hatfield >> becomes the USC. So, the town of Wley would be >> Yeah. They'd have to pass a credit review, provide audited financials, yada yada
yada yada, the standard. >> Um, how does the vehicle stabilization fund potentially factor? They got like 60 grand sitting there. Could that be used toward the first year of >> the $100,000 payment? >> Well, the vehicle stabilization. So,
>> ending the payment, >> you're you're doing two different things here. one is under normal or under normal you're doing a capital cost right as opposed to an operating cost. When we put this into debt service it becomes more of an operational cost as opposed to a capital cost.
>> Right. >> I don't know if you can redirect stabilization funds. >> You have to vote at a town meeting to >> to be used towards operating >> Well, right. >> You could >> to apply it to the operating budget specifically the debt.
>> Yeah. because you're basically eliminating the need for vehicle stabilization if you're in a lease program >> accepting I assume police cars >> and insurance. So the police they say
wait >> we're not going to take our 60 grand which >> we have a right to go for pull >> and use it toward this. But >> this is probably a stupid question. So why can't the police be involved in a procedure like this? >> They can't. They probably could.
>> They could. Yeah. He said >> police and fire can be inappropriate, >> but not fire like big fire trucks that Yeah. But so pickup trucks. >> Yeah. >> But but so my point is that the police department could give up the
stabilization fund if they did this. And is the stabilization fund all for the police or is it for >> any use it for a police car? So it can be for any vehicle. >> Any vehicle. But if they're in the fund, if they're in the lease, >> right? >> Then you could at least for the first
year take that hit >> and say you diminish the 100,000 by 60 grand, it only be $50,000. The police have I don't know whether the last cruiser they bought through there's a association in Massachusetts that they
buy their vehicles through that has already gone through procurement and vetted and everything else. >> I can't think of the name of it >> which maybe Plymouth County or not please. >> Yeah that's right. Um,
but in this case, you probably because this guy's just financing, he's giving you cash. So, you could probably still use that source of vehicles. He's just your source of the money. Yeah. >> So, you don't have to pay it out. >> So, I think the larger picture here is that and um but I have a fleet of time
vehicles right now. >> Yeah. >> I roll vehicles over five to six years. I get rid of another one because they're so costly to repair. So I know that my plow trucks last at six years I get rid of them because I got to put thousands of dollars into fixing them and they're worth a lot on the trade where America.
So I don't know what the residual value of these machines but >> do we just take the residual value in five years get rid of it and get a brand new one and have the warranty and not have all repair expenses. So on our end of the deal, the highway department,
like if you start putting cost into this, I have quotes. I have a bunch of things just from random stuff that we fixed so far this year. One of them was 28,000 was a repair bill for the truck we took off on was that was 28,000. I
put $7,000 into the loader. They have to have somebody do it because it's all computerized. Everything's computerized now. There's no more let's just adjust the carburetor type thing. Those days are over. There's safety aspects in this too as far as like maintenance brakes and
things like that. You you have to be assemic to do brakes on a truck. Um if you get pulled over and they're out of adjustment there, then they're looking for where's the ASC numbers and stuff like you don't have that one. That's a that's a big thing. Not to mention,
you're sending one of your employees out in a truck that's not fit to the row. >> It's unsafe. >> It's unsafe. I mean, we have no risk management is is all over that. >> Oh, god. >> Doesn't that didn't you just support what JD's saying, >> right? >> Okay.
>> But the days of buying a a truck and having it last 15 years are over. >> Oh, no. Okay. That's >> They're not They're not lasting, which I honestly the manufacturers doing that purpose to buy the trucks, right? >> I'm convinced that the days of having a pickup last 20 years, they fall apart.
>> Just like referring. >> Yeah. It's the same thing with buying the computer programs that they had a boat on two years ago. >> Somebody at an auto body shop can't buy that program for board. I mean, it's ridiculous. And now you can buy them and
they're I mean, I know a friend that I I do some work with who owns those computer programs. $90,000 a year for one program for one Ford vehicle. It's 90 grand a year. So he has 30 just releases the the thing from Ford. They give it to him. They plug it into his
computer. Then you can do work. >> Yes. So, so the equipment that before was a hydraulic pump >> and onoff switch. >> We should fix that stuff. >> But now we got plenty of computer. >> Right. Now, if you buy a vehicle from from these things, the warranty is five years. At the end of five years, you
page your 5year number. Then we bring it back with the keys. We say if we we're going to get a new one. Here's this vehicle as a trade in. And then we'll >> So you still capture residual value here. So if you rotate the vehicles, you eliminate the mechanic side of the whole
thing because it's all under warranty and then >> it's under warranty for the entire time. >> Five. Yeah. >> For the five years is or however you put >> warranties, I'm sure. Right. >> Yeah. There's number one. >> I think we have a market for a company
to make a car that can be fixed like it was in 1962. >> Why doesn't somebody make that? >> Trying to find someone who can fix old car. It's difficult. >> Well, they need a PhD in computer science. Yes, bicycles are all electronic. >> So, can we back up a second? So, just
say once again, sorry, what the town is actually voting on >> a town meeting. What What are they voting to do? And then what are the Can you summarize that again? >> So, enter into a a vehicle lease program lease to own or if we'd like to change
it, you can change the term, which would be happy with me. I don't >> I mean, at the time of the vote, it would be specified. >> Yep. to to enter into agreement for the amount of whatever it is on the a payment for this and put it into a line item as a as a put your operating budget
>> and and then there's a number associated with that like which would be the number of dollars >> yeah if you wanted to take a $350,000 loan out for four years there's a there's a number 100 95 95,000 >> ju just to step back I I want to confirm
>> what you're voting on are two things. First is >> contract. >> Hold on. First is to agree to do the borrowing in order to be a part in this program. And that's for the toll. >> But then you're going to have the the yearly in your second vote, which is
part of the operating budget, which is in the debt service section of the operating budget. So there's actually two votes, although one of them's packaged into another >> the excavator. Every year we had to vote to authorize the spending for that service. >> Yeah. And how much are you recommending?
>> Um, I guess I would have to really look at it. I mean, those were the two that that I came up with when I talked around on the phone about this. A 350 and a 500. So, and the reason I say this is because I just put in for a grant for
a new loader and I haven't heard back. That's 300,000. So, I'm hoping that maybe I would have heard about it by the meeting. If that's not in, I would definitely go for a five at the beginning. >> And how many years? >> Uh I would do a I would do a five in the
last 112,000 a year on a on a five. >> But this is going to go in perpetuity. Basically in five years we're going to reup for another one because we annually have to buy stuff. But having a fixed cost every year is the goal. >> That's the goal. So we don't have these huge spikes. >> Yes.
>> So just it's an even every year. We're going to be spending Well, no, but we're we're going to be spending $100,000 a year from now on >> to put towards new equipment. >> No, what I'm saying is it's 100,000 this year. It's 110,000. Next year, it's 120,000. There's this thing called
inflation. >> No, no, it's a fixed. It's a fixed amount each year. >> Yeah. >> It makes more sense. >> It's a fixed rate. going to be expensive. >> Well, you're going to be >> right. Um,
>> if he buys a pickup truck, it's one year. How much? A pickup truck? I mean, not pickup truck, a dump truck. >> A dump truck's 300,000. >> 300,000. >> Yeah. >> So, he he'll buy that the first year, but we're paying it off over five years.
>> But next year, there's another five years out there in the 60 year. Now, you don't know what that is. >> Every five years. >> Every five years. 35 years you have to make one of these calls. That's what we're voting on. >> We're we're we're right now we're talking about if we're receptive to the idea of doing this versus doing it the
only way. He's bring it to us and say guys do this with >> I just want to make sure I understand what is. >> So with with the $500,000 we'll call it line of credit. Y >> is the intent to replace all the vehicles
>> and bring everything to new with 500. you couldn't do a loader and um maybe something else. >> And so if something else junks out >> in three years, >> right, >> then you got your $500,000 line of
credit on two vehicles, >> but you have another vehicle. >> If you if if you didn't extend the 500 totally, you can enter a new vehicle in there, >> but then your then your fiveyear might that payment goes up. >> Uh 500 that's filled. What I was going
to >> it is 500's fixed or something and just get to that level. That's right. >> You have to go and ask for more money if you had something that was >> you went above and beyond. So in that case then you wouldn't want to touch your vehicle stabilization fund because
>> how much is in there now? >> 60 grand. >> Yeah. That is not >> so you wouldn't touch it to reduce the year one payment. >> I would probably leave it in there >> because you're only getting 500,000. It doesn't you're not replacing all the equipment, >> right, >> with the 500k,
>> right? >> And I think too at the at where we're at now, if something broke during the season that in budgetary numbers, you could probably fix it. It would hurt, but you could probably fix whatever you
had by time enough to get to get through because in the beginning, I would never take the new stuff and replace it. Most of our stuff is old. So the >> have to pick the best of the best and keep that and that would have to wait five more years, >> right? So the advantage is the town
doesn't have peaks and valleys. >> That's what cash >> or >> but the downside of that because you do have call it 7800,000 in free cash, >> right? >> The downside is you're losing 6% per
year on the interest for this because you now you have to have debt service. It's no different than when you're in a kid in debt. Easiest way to get ahead is to pay down your debt. So, >> well, we're also paying out or we're doing 112,000 a year on a 500,000.
You're essentially paying an extra 100,000, >> right? 112,000 per five over 5 years is actually 660,000 >> or sorry 560 560 an extra 60 grand
>> because it's $12,000 which is which is what I'm saying. So you're >> if you're a town that has no cash flow then the lease situation might make sense. If you're a town that has a bit of a buffer, which Wely has, one
consideration would be why would we just throw $60,000, not throw wrong, >> but why would you take 60,000 just shove it out the door when 60k could buy the new pickup truck? >> Yeah, >> that's just a you argument to concern.
And when we get into the budget 101, we go into how we compare to our other the other towns. And Hatfield doesn't have the room that we have, >> right? Or Sunderland. Not Sunderland, but you have a lot, right? >> What? >> Sunderland also doesn't have room. >> What is your urgent needs? What's the
dollars of your like immediate needs that you got to have? >> Found a dump truck. >> You need a dump truck. >> And our voters uh on I put $7,000 into just into electronics this year. budget order. What does a new budget order cost?
>> 282 285. >> Uh the dump truck is more expensive. >> 300 >> 312. >> Did you say 300,000 >> for a dump truck? It's more expensive than >> That's what you rented for the year. Is that just the plow truck? >> It's just the file truck. Yeah.
>> My one of my concerns is how do you sell this to the the public without them knowing specifically what you're using that money on? Yeah, >> at any one time. That might be a hard >> That's a little bit of
>> That's what Hatfield has outlast. >> You can go vote for for select board meeting for I mean county for two days voting on the color. Why does it have power windows? We never had it takes the politic kind of thing out of it. >> Well, I think >> you can you can be transparent. You can
have a list. This is this is what we came up with a list. This is the number and this is what we'd like to go to. I think >> the way to to really sell it especially to this group is to say under normal conditions this is what we're expending
this is how much we've spent and this is what our residual value is but if we do this this is how much we're going to spend and this is what value is so that you can demonstrate to the finance committee and town meeting that there's actually a betterment by changing this
program so essentially What the town has to understand is life cycles are >> a quarter of what they used to be. Quarter, a half, a third >> of what they used to be. >> We don't have them. >> And and equipment costs more. >> Yes. >> And it's a way to even out the
expenditures yearly by the town, taking that in consideration that life cycles are not getting what they were. >> And part of that would be to establish where are you right now in your baseline. >> So that means we're not >> of your life cycles. We're not buying one truck every 5 years. We're buying three trucks every five years.
>> Correct. That's what it comes down to. >> How many vehicles do you have? Yeah. >> I think it was 12 or 16. It was just a And I just do a list for the insurance. >> I just went through the whole like what we own with the town actually owns per
department. >> I think it would be helpful, >> right, >> to say here are my 12 vehicles. >> Here's where I am in my life cycle, >> right? here's what I'm going to need. So, we could say, "Oh, yeah. In 2030, oh, darn." Because we're being recorded,
there's a real downstroke in terms of cash >> and necessary cash. >> Well, I have another question. The disposition of stuff when we're when we have a capital item, >> his brain pickup, >> right? When that's it has its end of its life,
can you trade it in versus the world or do you have to sell at auction or what do you do with stuff? >> They're well it depends on the >> we most of our vehicles don't have enough value to create them >> because we keep them for so long but they're >> generally we internally have to
determine is is there another department that needs it so that they could take it inside. So you keep the capital within the town and then if there isn't somebody else to take it on then you can go off to auction sell it off >> but you can't trade it there. >> It depends on how the method I think of
because that's what we did with the police cruiser didn't we train >> like I said most of the time the value on them isn't the value that they give you for trade is just we felt we could sell it outright for more than we were getting for a traded value chain. What
I'm getting at is I had a 2019 truck. I paid $65,000 for it. I traded in six years later and I got 40 for it on the trade. That's good >> because it's worth a lot. Had I kept it for 10 years, I would have got nothing
for it. >> Well, that's that's a fortune and I just I gave it back to Ford and I got a brand. >> But that's based on the acquisition of how you're buying it and they accept a trade in. We'd have to find out in this program whether that would be poss if we
could do a trade $100,000 truck that in five years we traded everything selling things on municip they got to come at six o'clock on Friday night. >> Yeah you got to get regardless of those details. So yes you can do a tradein in
the program. >> So you get some residual value out of them at the end of the lease. At the end of the lease, you could say this $285,000 bucket loaders has a residual value of 150,000 at year five. Trade it in and get a new one upgraded.
>> But we own the residual value. >> We own these. Yeah. At least >> that gets put. >> That'll make me a brand new machine for >> 132,000. So that's true. What you're saying >> is that mean we don't need to do what
he's doing or is addition to what >> I'm just saying is if it's possible instead of keeping things to the very end where it's worth absolutely nothing because equipment doesn't last nearly as long as it used to keep it for 5 years or whatever we think as or his advice whatever what the practical use is value
get rid of it while it's worth a lot and it's worth a new one. >> I'm happy with that. Well, we all when we buy cars, we trade them in a little north lot and get them in. >> All I'm asking is is that process, which hopefully it would work. >> Nullify wanting to do this, is do this instead.
>> No, I don't think so. >> You're saying do what you're saying as part of this process. >> Do what he's doing and then get rid of him at year five or year six or year seven. >> And then the question is, well, can you do your legal year? >> He is saying that that program allows for it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just get rid of it and get another one. Yeah, that sounds
>> I mean every time I buy a truck well trucks cyber inflation because co they went up every time my every time I've done this for the last 25 years my out of pocket goes down when I buy a new truck because the trade in is worth so much. I have so much equity in it. >> Okay. So we're good on the trade. So Julie you
>> Yes. Do I understand if we do this program that if something goes wrong with the truck that that we do not have to pay >> repairs? It's all taken care of. Those are the ones. >> Now, what do you reckon right now the
cost is for repairing these vehicles? So, we'll actually be saving money. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, where we're at right now, I mean, I can show you some quotes that I have just to repair the trucks that we have so far this year in the winter. >> Yeah.
>> Just like what what are labor rates right now? Just in general, this is going >> a labor rate to work on a truck at Eric is 175 an hour at at the uh Allegiance, which is actually an international truck dealer who gets the parts directly at cost is 200.
>> So you're talking you're talking about spending $16,000 in cost, right? >> That's too So, do you reckon over a fiveyear period you'd be spending $60,000 in repairs if we didn't do this program >> on your own?
>> Yeah. >> You have to have somebody do it. >> What? >> You have to have somebody to do the Her question is, would you have the repair cost of 60,000 over a 5year period >> on a brand new vehicle? I >> in general department >> if we if we don't do the lease
>> Yeah. >> and we have to keep repairing these vehicles. >> $16,000. Yeah. Do you think over five years you would spend $60,000 or or close to that? >> No, I think you'd spend probably two or $300,000. >> Okay. >> I think you'd be out and be on older
equipment. >> We'd also be buying new equipment anyway. So, we're going to have those costs the interest costs related to this program versus the interest costs related to a borrowing anyways.
>> Yeah. So because I don't think we'd take >> we're not gonna buy a bucket motor in one year. >> Right. Right. So you'd finance it. And that was my other question. Um right now it may be financially feasible to be able to do this and add it to your
operating budget. But what happens in those years when I'm normally not a negative person, but what happens when you're on in those years when you're close to your levy limit and you would normally do something like this by
borrowing like a proposition override an override rather? Um, is that something that you can do with this program? Can you do an override with this program? An override would be above and beyond permanent property. No, it's not
permanent. Just an override is only the term of the lease. >> So, we bought all of our dump trucks and stuff over years ago. We always used to do it as an override. Um, fire trucks, all that, but it's only for the term of the lease. It's a proposition two and a half, right?
>> Um, is permanent, whereas the override is only during the term of the lease. both. >> So yeah, that would just be right now I don't think it's a problem for us given our current financial state. I just
other but the other factor to consider which isn't dealing directly with the vehicles but is the concept of redoing the highway garbage because that money call it a million million and a half
dollars. The only way you're going to get there is with a bond which means debt service. And so I think this is no different than the senior center wanting the same thing. We're moving $50,000,
$100,000 all over the place. But I think that needs to be taken into consideration as well because you could get into the $100,000 issue here with the vehicles, get into $100,000 with the senior center, and then suddenly, oops, we need
another 50,000 because we got to have a place to put the new vehicles because current place isn't falling down. So I think that also needs to be part of the overall discussion, a good discussion, but important just to
understand and have that in the back of our heads. This won't be the first and only bite at that permanent condition apple semi. >> So I I have a question. So you came to town
with the way things have always been done in terms of equipment. Do we need the equipment we've always had? Do we need 33,000 GPW trucks? Do we need a three yard bucket loader? Do we need >> You need the bucket loader. >> Do we need that size bucket loader?
>> Is there a less expensive bucket loader that would do the same thing or is a different model or size or something? >> A three yard. >> You need a three yard bucket. >> Yeah, which is what we have. I have both from different companies that for a three yard. >> Do we need the $300,000 plow trucks? No,
we don't. No, you need one. You need one probably I would say one of the bigger troubles. So the the reason I wanted to discuss this two-partly is that we're finalizing the highway budget. If we're going to put in if this goes then it's
going to change numbers because I mean I plan to replace this truck on a c on the capital thing from 312,000 for a new new uh dump truck to to drop the size down to under CDL for 100 and then
50 half the money >> um in order to get a smaller truck with almost I mean you see them They're pretty much I can do the same thing. The bigger trucks are good if you're going to haul more material
all the time. No, I guess if we get into a situation where that is, I can you can call somebody and hire them for, you know, $300. Can you bring in material? >> So, you can call the gravel bank and say, "Bring us gravel much cheaper than you can haul yourself >> and pay for the truck and do out payout or call Northeast Trees and have them
all way whatever it is, whatever." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, we get a non CDL truck. That's a non CDL operator. >> Driver. >> Wait. Save money. >> Save money. >> Like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Anybody can drive it. Regular license.
>> No. >> I don't know. I mean, you'd save money on the vehicle. Yeah. >> Not on the driver. >> Well, you don't pay for a CDL license. >> You have to hire a different employee, I guess. >> Not that some CEL drivers are
So, have you already done this and maybe I've missed it, but it is it possible to lay out two scenarios? Scenario one would be here's how weightly buys and upgrades vehicles every year >> and over the currently and if we stay
with that program >> y >> we'll make a reasonable intelligent guess on what it's going to look like for the next I don't know five or six years. Same scenario with this approach with the leasing company. Here's how much we think it would cost
over five or six years on a weekend >> and compare those trajectories. >> Right. >> Is that >> absolutely >> not? Yeah. >> But my suggestion is this deals with your capital request, not your budget because your teeth in the debt service
isn't going to be in the highway budget. So, >> your highway budget should be >> dealt with separately, but yeah, your capital that's something you probably >> because Yeah, I'm very fuzzy on, you know, is it would it basically end up
being the same amount of money, but by the way, we get this nice warranty feature. >> Yeah. You know, things like that, >> which then possibly has a savings. >> Absolutely. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. >> But we need to see the picture. >> We need to see the big compared picture.
>> Yeah. Agreed. >> But for now, his budget would include repairs to vehicles. >> 26,000 would be >> Yeah. >> 100,000. That's what I mean by adjusting your budget. >> That's what you need your increase your budget from. 26 to 100 total
we have. >> Sure. That would be >> that's what you're coming to $600,000 for your payment. >> Okay. Yet >> well I need your budget but but what's worst case scenario and right we'll
discuss itur during the highway department optimistic request >> yeah optimistic on your side was the school bus last year was the insurance >> two years ago was the school buses >> oh
>> last year was that health insurance But then next week as the capital improvement, we'll go through your four requests, but you can discuss with capital improvement. >> Um, >> what day is capital next? >> The 28th.
>> It's not on the It's not on the site. >> No, because it hasn't been posted yet. Okay. Intentional. Um, but uh the Yeah, I'm curious. Now you're mucking it up, right? Because either you're asking
for the capital request that you submitted or you're asking for a different capital request, which is to do this lease to own program. So, I guess it's going to be a discussion, but their capital is going to need to understand your request of a
the lease to own method and what that dollar amount is and what that gets us in material. So, relative to the point that George is requesting and you concur between now and next week for that
capital meeting preparing this here's how we run things now and what it looks like. >> Wow. um for the next 5 years versus this scenario. >> When it comes to capital improvement, they actually don't evaluate based on the cost. They're b their their capital
improvements solely they uh determine whether or not there is a urgent need. They they determine the urgency of the need to do a capital investment, not how are we going to pay for it >> or how much should it be. Um they're
strictly that's finances you determine. Okay, capital told us this is an urgent project. How are we going to fund it? Are we going to do it? It be cash, borrowing, XYZ. >> So, should this this two-phase anal two-part analysis come? >> That comes when you're going to be doing
the highway department budget review and their capital review during that one presentation. They'll do a finance committee. >> So, will the capital committee have essentially two budgets? An A, which is without the lease, and a B. Well,
capital doesn't do budgets. They're doing capital recommendations. >> Recommendations. Yeah. Would there be sort of an A and a B? >> We'll have to see what is brought to capital first and then we'll figure out a best way to present it to the finance committee.
>> Okay. I can also um have a Zoom with Ron Klein from All American Investment. He said he could set up a Zoom meeting. He said, "Why don't you just talk to some people first and see like this and then I can
do a Zoom meeting with everybody if you could?" >> Yep. >> It might be worth having him when you do your highway budget proposal to finance. Um, have him on the ready in case there's questions about it. >> But as far as capital concerned, they
don't need to know the dollar. I mean, they need a dollar, but they're not going to worry about the long-term implications. That's these guys. >> It's taking a capital item out of capital and putting it in operating. It's a fixed dollar amount that we can
have every year to spend for stuff. We have a fixed basket of dollars to spend on it. >> That'll be your we spending those dollars. It's >> fair enough. Good for you.
You all you all said appreciate the uh opportunity you're bringing it forth as a creative idea. >> Thank you. Thank you foring an alternative. >> Yes. Try to consider There's a 500.
>> Oh, I gave one to Lyn. >> Yeah, >> I thought they were the same. Maybe we could get copies of >> Oh, is that the 500? >> Here's the >> That's the one that was >> That's fine. >> This one? >> Yeah.
>> 112K for 5 years. 5.84% fixed interest. and um three >> paid annually in advance. One down payment. >> So July 2nd 101,000 down
something. I don't know if that's something to consider or not. I guess that's why you get freak. >> We got a lot of >> Yeah. >> Once the clock, >> but this one is Yeah. It's in advance. So generally they're quartered, but I
mean it depends. I actually >> our um retirement is a lump sum. Yeah. >> And we get this >> I know when they did the payment was the envelope was waiting as soon as it was on I put it in end overnight because one year they missed it and
they're like well we're not we won't be back till Monday. No that's not how this works. You have to the payment has to be in your now. >> Yeah. Yeah, he's like, "All right, okay. Monday's good."
>> All right, perfect. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, now that we have Mr. Manulan, why don't we go back to the agenda number one to discuss and vote on potential committee reorganization. >> We're looking for a nomination for a
chair and a vice chair. I not I would not want anything to be the chair because she was a former treasur administrator and payroll and EMD >> you know the ins and outs that's for
sure as it was described to me by person she know every bonus period >> yes >> and that kind of experience I think will be invaluable for the committee to have >> and you go to nothing. >> I don't think Tom gets a
>> statement. >> So, there was a motion to nominate Lynn as the new chairperson of our committee. >> Who made that motion? >> I did. >> Did you accept that nom? >> I guess
arousing with jubilating. >> Yeah. Any other nominations for the position? >> Wait, is was there was that a second and you took a vote yet? >> I just asked asked if there was anybody
else interested in the web. >> You're asking if there's any other >> correct? Yeah. >> Do we assume that you do not want to continue? >> Well, he's vice chair. >> Oh, you're currently vice chair. each other
chair by somebody by their >> we understand you do not wish to continue to be at chair for chair >> for this year I would say let me have one more round understanding the ins and outs of municipal government maybe I can bring
you something to the table so hearing no other nominations for that particular position those in favor of min sibly as chairperson. >> All right, show of hands. Unanimous. >> Perfect. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> So now I get to take over the meeting.
>> Yes. >> Oh, it's instant. >> Yeah, it's instant. >> Okay. So, I guess I'm going to entertain nom nominations for the vice chair. >> I nominate Jerry Lemon to continue as vice chair. >> It's done a fine job.
>> All those in favor of having Jerry as the vice chair. Okay, that was unanimous. >> Thank you. Look forward to one. >> Okay, so we are now on item number five,
the FY 2027 budget process. And I think I'm going to be turning this over to Pete. >> Congratulations. >> Wow. You want to keep that? >> All right, that's going to be the same. >> So, yeah, you should have the colored
print out that's the same as the slides that you have in front of you. >> Um, those of you who were here last year, you'll recognize some of the material. Essentially what I'll be going through is um giving you an overview on
our the town's revenue sources as well as our expenses kind of as a way >> okay uh just to give you like a big picture what the history has been where we're going um so that we can prepare ourselves for this upcoming 27 budget.
All right. So to start with the good stuff where the money is coming from the revenue trends. Um so revenue there are three main categories of revenue sources. You have the local tax levy and that's the funds
that we raise through taxation of real estate and personal property. Um it is the largest source of revenue. Then we also have state aid that comes from the commonwealth. It's primarily chapter 70, chapter 90. You have the school choice
and your UGGA, UGGA, the unrestricted general government aid. Then we have local receipts. That's essentially local um income. That's money that the town is collecting through fees, fines, forfeitures,
investments, income, motor vehicle excise tax, meals and rooms taxes. um and some others uh some other categories. So, it's really where we're locally um gaining or bringing in value. And then
otherwise, there's also an all other. So, those are funds that come from like um transfers between free cash uh reserved receipts reserved for appropriations. Um that's another one other category we
do spend out of those. That's not money that >> That's money already. We're essentially taking money out of savings to put it into the into the >> Yeah. >> the budget for the year. >> Yeah. >> We didn't make money somewhere. >> You didn't make it. It's just a revenue is a use.
>> Sorry. It's a It's a use bucket. Yeah. >> Good call. >> So, this is to show you for FY26, the current fiscal year that we're in. Um what our revenue by source is, what we've calculated. Um this does not
include CPA or enterprise so not the water enterprise funds. So based on the tax rate that was set um our tax levy that we'll be collecting is 5,429,000 and change. State aid is just under a
million dollar. Local receipts we've estimated at $60,000 and then all other is um almost $900,000. So you can see the tax levy company making 70% of our revenue source for the
current fiscal year. This we kind of walked through last time I will walk through it again how we get the tax levy and the tax rates how those are calculated. So for we start with what the total expenses are which in FY26 based on the budget that was
approved it was8,49,93.17. There is a nonpropy total revenue estimate of just under $3 million. So that leaves us with a tax levy. So the amount that we have to appropriate through taxing of just under $5.5
million. So based on that tax levy, we then divide it by what the total assessed value of all property in weight is. And that total assessed value has come out to $415 million.
You then multiply that differential or that that difference um by a,000 and that gives you a tax rate of $13.7. So that's why we have the current tax rate right now in the current fiscal
year $1387 per $1,000 of assessed value. >> Um, two questions. >> Yeah. >> In step one at 2.9 million and roughly 3 million of nonpropy tax revenue. >> Is that from the combination of state aid and local receipts and all other?
>> Yes. >> But that doesn't add that adds to >> looks like 2.3. Where's the other 600,000 or is that part of I mean maybe free cash is being counted as part of that
like 2.4 the 2.4 How far are you getting from the bottom three numbers on the table? >> The bottom bottom three >> 968. They'll add up to 297. So it's about a half million. Oh
well there we also used um free cash in order the tax ley. Yes. So there's others free cash. >> Yes. Okay. Okay. >> But you as you were saying, it's not really a revenue. It's not a revenue. It's a pot of money. >> It's a pot of money that's
>> plus free cash. Okay. And then my second question, um I remember at the end of step two last year, I believe we're about 139 13 almost $14
>> and we shook out somehow at 1307, which is great, less than. And I remember you saying or somebody saying it's a little loose and it all kind of acrew and it'll all be pretty. This is much prettier at 1307
because it's about 7% less than what we budgeted or voted for at town meeting. I'm just trying to reconcile what factors would have been. >> No, you what you voted for at town meeting was the budget, not the tax. So the tax rate
>> our meetings though I remember the numbers like 1393 or something. >> Oh what we estimated. >> Yes. >> That's because we didn't know what the new assessed value of property was. Got it. >> The property assessed value is higher than anticipated.
>> And you also have the actual receipts. >> Yeah. We estimate and we always estimate our receipts conservatively just to be cautious. >> Remember that those two things together. So, is it typical that a 7% variance or
so from what we come up with as the finance committee to what the real number is? Because it was a little awkward thinking, oh my gosh, we're going to go over 14 because everybody's trying to keep it under 14. Suddenly, we're at 1307. That feels pretty good. >> That one was probably a little bit more
than we used to. Usually about 50. It might >> fluctuate by about 50 cents. >> Okay. Um, and that's one of the reasons why I've always said don't don't look at the tax rate. >> It does fluctuate so much.
>> The value of real estate appreciates every year. >> Yeah. And and then >> tax goes down. >> Yeah. >> That's good for like >> I think the assessors have also we have a whole new >> group of assessors. So the assessing is been done a little bit differently. So I
think >> more aggressive. they're catching up on properties that haven't been assessed. >> Um, >> it is being done more objectively so that they're ensuring that they are >> evaluating more I would say.
>> Nice choice. >> But >> I know where JD was going though with the assessed value. Although the tax rate may go down, the assessed value goes up. >> Correct. If our operating budget still goes up, your tax bill still does go up.
It's just that the rate >> Yes. >> may be down, but your your property is >> worth I built house the previous owner and it's twice I built it for. >> Do not say that. >> Let's stay focused on that.
No. >> So that's where we >> I'd like to strike that portion of >> I was just assessed we assessed last year's. >> Yeah. >> Thanks a lot. >> So to that to that discussion about the tax levy and the increases last year we
did see the tax levy being increased 16 six.13% over the FY25 budget or a tax levy sorry uh tax levy. So yes, there was an increase and you can see in the graph although it is light um
>> it has been consistently going up except in 2021 >> and that was everything from school to wages >> to insurance. >> Yes. Everything >> that drove the 6.1. >> Yes. >> So Proposition 2 and a half I'm sure a
lot of you heard a lot of community talking about Prop 2 and a half this last year. We did not. Um uh what it means though is Prop 2 and a half limits the amount of new tax dollars that a municipality can raise from year to year. Essentially saying that you cannot
raise your taxes more than 2 and a half%. Um so you can first a community cannot levy more than two and a half of the total full and fair cash value of all taxable real and per personal property. So that's your levy ceiling.
And then the levy limit. I'm gonna there's another graph to kind of explain this. The second is the community's levy is also constrained in that it can only increase by a certain amount from year to year, which is your levy limit. This kind of goes into that. So you have
your levy ceiling. That's the maximum levy limit that can that you can that can be the ceiling equals 2 and a half% of the community's full and fair cash value. the levy limit is less than the levy ceiling. Um the levy limit can increase
up to that levy limit but it cannot exceed the the levy limit >> without an override. >> Correct. Um the maximum levy that can be in the levy limit is the maximum levy that can be in a given year. It's based
on the previous year's limit plus a certain allowable increase. And a levy is what you actually tax. That's the amount that the community raises through property tax. So you have a levy, you have a levy limit, and then you have your levy ceiling.
>> Okay, >> this shows you what the FY 26 levy limit was set at or at. Basically, the levy limit for our current fiscal year that we're in is 6,557,000
and change. We don't know yet the levy limit per 27, but essentially what you're doing is you're taking last year's levy limit, any new growth gets added in, and then that new growth plus that living limit, you multiply it by 2 and a half%.
And then that will work out um you'll get your that was what gets added on to your previous levy limit that then will tell you what your FY27 revenue is.
>> Question on item number F the FY levy ceiling. >> That's not the sum total of what's above obviously that's coming from a different source that 10 million 385. Yeah, I forget where the levy ceiling number goes.
>> 2.5% of the community cash value somewhere out there previous years. >> It's the previous year's ceiling plus new growth to another. >> Well, that's your assessment here >> the property
>> two and a half two and a half% of your full assessment for the gap. So this doesn't show us the full market value. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. And the only reason why it's displayed this way is this is the way
that do displays this the categories. So you can go on the do website to see breakdowns, but it this is how they break it down. So it's just showing you the process that they follow. But yes, it is obviously confusing
because it does not. So certified new growth, we you can see that we've fluctuated back and forth on our new growth. New growth is the dollar that we're achieving or that we're growing outside of just taxation. Um we had a spike in
FY25 where we went from in the 40s to 128,000. We're back down to normalized. I would say in the current FY26, we did have a certified new growth of 56,000. So that's just showing you we had an
oddity last year where we just grew higher or we grew more growth which helped us gave us more money. Um but yeah, it's >> where's basically cumulative >> does your growth cube?
>> I think your growth goes calcated every year. >> You get it recalculated, >> but the overall picture grows cumulatively. >> Well, the new growth goes into the levy. >> Yeah. >> So then your levy limit moves up. >> Correct. >> And then your new growth becomes zero
again. >> Correct. >> I would disagree that I think that new growth is going to diminish because there's less land to build on. There's less available opportunities to build. >> It's not just building permits.
It's also your motor vehicle is where we get a lot of bario growth. Um has been where we that's what happened and people are doing additions and that kind of thing like planes is full. There's
left >> it does take in you know those people are putting garages and >> yeah there would have to be new growth every year. I I would think just >> I think it's going to slow down. Now >> they may slow down but they would slow
down because of devalued real estate or or what what would >> they like amount of available land when when that's >> significant available land. There's land that could be subdivided. It's just the cost of the construction right now is
too high for somebody to actually do that kind of thing. You can there's plenty of land that could be certified dates of prevention as well. >> So that 2018 peak is probably in the United States. Yeah, I guess. >> Yeah, we've been building on there since, you know, 13. Yep.
>> But yeah, it's more than just um new construction, but we do get into that that yeah, we can't bank on new construction either. So when can a municipality assess taxes in excess of 11 million?
>> I misspoke on this before. I meant debt exclusion. When I was talking about override there's two method or there's two ways. There's the override and there's the debt exclusion. Um an override when an override is the levy limit for the year is calculated by including the amount of
the override. The override results in a permanent increase of the levy limit of a community which is part of the levy limit base increases at a rate of two and a half each year. An override cannot exceed a community's levy ceiling but it
can increase that levy limit. The other option is the debt exclusion which is what um Lynn was referring to before. A community can assess taxes in excess of its levy limit or levy ceiling for a payment of a certain capital project and
for the payment of specified debt service costs. The additional amount of that service is added to the levy limit for the life of the debt only, not in perpetuity. So it's it only increases it during that limited time of the debt. Um that additional amount of the payment of
the capital project cost is added to the tax levy or levy ceiling only for the year in which the project is being undertaken. Unlike overrides, exclusions do not become part of the base upon which the levy remain is congregated for future years.
>> So sir, could you just give an example of this? Um, say for example, we I don't know, pick out a bond to build the new highway department building. Would that get >> That's a dead exclusion.
>> Magic wand would be waved over the debt exclusion thing. likely do the debt exclusion. >> You could hit the 2 and 12% at that point or you might not or >> you could affect your ability. >> If it goes over, you'd need an override
vote. >> No, the debt exclusion puts you over the two and a half. >> Yeah. >> So, >> uh both of these are supposed to go over. It's just debt exclusion is temporary based on a specific debt term.
Whereas an override you usually you're using that more for an operating a long term. >> Oh, so debt exclusion literally means it's excluded from the based on the debt the normal process of >> right
>> local tax levy. So this is the excess tax levy capacity and total value showing you what the history has been from 2017 to our current fiscal year 2026. Um the excess levy capacity you can see
we have been doing pretty well. it's been increasing. Um, and in 2022 and 2025, our excess levy capacity, which is the difference between your levy limit and your levy ceiling, was 1.2 million. This
year, we're at 1.1 million. What it mean what it really means is we have some room. We have quite a bit >> quite a bit of room. Uh, you can also see the total value has
almost doubled since 2017. >> And that's the source of the 2.5% lending ceiling of 10 million votes, >> right? Because it's calculated based off of your evaluation. How do we compare to our surrounding communities? The Conway, Deerfield,
Sunderland, Williamsburg, and Hatfield. Um, between the year or fiscal years of 24 to 26, uh, you can see that we have basically maintained our excess levy capacity at
that 1.1 1.2 million. Sorry. Conway has come to essentially is practicing pretty well along with us. Our the other neighbors however have limited capacity and that's what we were
referring to earlier. We happen to be a town that does have a lot of capacity whereas um let's see Deerfield currently has 6,500 in leming capacity where we have 1.1 million.
>> Sunderland is only at 4,700. William Fur just under 300,000 and Hatfield 5,000. Uh so we we've done well. We continue to do well. We're not building our budgets to our limits.
We're not doing taking on projects to our limits. We have that wiggle room. This might pride but we yes this may be prudent but it also may be the fact that the other towns with lower excess capacity are making investments that yes
>> that will >> pay off then increase their excess. >> Yeah. You can see Deerfield absolutely is doing lots of different capital projects >> waste water treatment. >> Yeah. their their facility, their town office
and that whole facility campus is being redone. >> Oh, it's still painted on their highway garage. >> So, we could be stingy. >> Oh, yes. Yes. >> I think not only might
be prudent, but yes, choose say what you will. Interesting. This also on that tax levy discussion is a graph to show you how the tax rate has changed over the years.
It has consistently been going down. This is the rate per thousand. The only year that it went up was in 2023. Um it went from 1371 up to 1420 but we are on a downward trend again.
>> Keep it going. Um, how do we compare with tax rates to our surrounding communities? I'll just focus on FY26. Um, in FY26, the only community that has a lower tax rate than us is Sunderland
at $1244. Otherwise, everybody else is pretty on par. Uh, Williamsburg is a little bit higher at $161. Williamsburg has been historically, you can see they are higher. They've been in the $18. This year they were able to
bring it down to $16. What is the average single family tax bill like? It's been growing >> in lately. This is just lately. It has been growing um from 2017 where the average bill was $4,600
to the current fiscal year at $5,800. Um, so it is a steady increase essentially. Um, >> do we know what the median is? Do they ever do a median? Which would be interesting because >> the board of assessors I believe does
calculate them. >> Yeah. >> And probably a lot of them driving at those new some new construction. >> I do have a quick question. I mean, yeah, this is sort of >> random in a way, but I'm just curious. What is a town like Northampton?
I mean, I know it's not like us, so it's not a fair comparison, but what do they pay? Do you know? >> Oh, what their average? >> Yeah. I mean, what would these numbers look like for Northampton and average? >> I I honestly couldn't tell you. I >> a lot higher, a lot lower.
>> I honestly couldn't tell you. I don't want to pull it out because I've never looked so I don't >> Ammerst is much storm water. >> I think you have to pay tax based on how much perville surface you have for storm water runoff. >> Wow. >> My in-laws have to pay.
>> But I also am not sure if Northampton has a split rate because a split rate could mean that u a split rate tax means that they would reduce the residential tax rate and increase the commercial tax rate. there therefore helping to reduce the revenue burden. Um I just don't know
if Northampton has a split rate. I don't believe Ammerst does, right? >> I think they're >> I don't think they're right. Northampton's 1393 and they do not have a split rate. >> Oh, okay.
under the tax rates. Um, these include all the tax. I mean, Deerfield has sewer and fire district taxes and everything. Is this the rate that includes all of that tax? >> What slide are you on? Sorry. >> I was looking back at the tax rates.
>> Um, >> the dollar >> the Yeah, >> it's what their set single rate is. Okay. Yeah. And then that >> Sunderland include there >> your bill includes the water sewer tax as part of their overall >> well that's what I'm asking. I'm not
sure if they do >> or they are build separately. >> It's all part of the real estate tax bill. >> Okay. I was just curious as to whether those were >> is almost $18 per value. >> 1795.
>> Oh, sorry. Okay. state aid. Oh, sorry. Did I miss we missed this one? How do we compare our average single family tax bills with our surrounding communities? Um, essentially
we are in the current fiscal year, our average family, residential, single family tax bill is a little bit it's on the lower side for everybody against everybody. It's um the next closest song.
>> Yeah. at West Ham is 20,000. >> So on state aid just to keep us moving along because there's a lot of slides. >> We're not looking at the total state aid um over the course of the last 10 years.
It does fluctuate. A lot of the fluctuations are due to either new calculation methods that the state does such as for chapter 17 um or chapter 90. Um so that's why you do see some of this
fluctuation. It also has to do with what the state um revenues are like and how they can then redistribute back into municipalities. So that also plays into fluctuations. But in the current fiscal year we have a significant increase in um that state aid and they're actually
going to go into where that's coming from. >> You think that'll continue into 2027? I can't say but let's let's go into detail of this. Soaping >> I'm going to be doing that next. >> What's chapter 90?
>> That's the roadway. >> Oh. >> So the first part of state aid that we're going to look at is the unrestricted general government aid. Um this there is an actual request to further increase the UGGA. I don't know
if it's going to happen, but there has been requests from the MMA, the Mass Municipal Association, to further increase this. This one has just been a steady increase. It's no significant increase here, but currently of our 900,000,
167,000 is coming from the UGA. Chapter 70 started to increase significantly in 2024. there was a calculation a new methodology to calculate chapter 17 what's chapter
>> education >> um so in 2024 it did jump for us and it is continuing to go up it's now 350,000 in our current fiscal year >> we don't have data like uh per capita
cost right for for UPTA age. I know this is a fob, but how do we compare with other counts? We don't get into >> I didn't break that down. It could be done, but I didn't I certainly didn't break
>> the current population statistics carry that kind of information on the government website page. Go ahead. >> The way that I don't know that they calculate it. You could and you could reverse and calculate that manually, but I don't believe that it's in their
dashboard showing it. >> Okay. >> It might be there are some per capita uh reports in there, but I don't I can't say specifically stuff that's always interesting. >> Yeah, the um there's a database called the American Community
Survey comes out every year. That's what >> the United States, >> but it's on a very high level once a year and then every five years it comes out on the granular. So you can figure that out specifically for weight. That's about to be released about two weeks. >> Oh, great. Okay.
>> That's what I was >> school choice tuition. There we go. Um this is where we did have a a good increase. the so here we see how much we're receiving in school choice receiving. So that's
where students are coming into the district or coming into Wley Elementary >> and we then collect based on that. And then there's the school choice sending if we had students going out of district. Um thankfully we're on the very low end on
the sending. We did have an increase from 205,000 to 312,000 in the receiving. So there was a jump in um school choice receiving >> and that's very on my nephew's kindergarten class. There's 20 kids and
18 of them are way residents. So it depends how many way residents there are in the class if you take all of those. You might have a class with five way residents and they end up counting 10 school choice groups. But then it also goes by as a district you can't just max out all the classrooms right
now as a profitm center because where are they going against Frontier? So they they they plan all that. They >> is it a Conway kid coming to Wake that's in the district or is a Hatfield kid coming to Wake >> and is that kid going to metriculate to Frontier? Are they going to come back to
the district they came from? So, we can't just like, oh, we're going to max. You're going to have it doesn't work that way. >> And that increase is not just it doesn't just relate to an increase in student count. It also relates to the amount per student that you're able to
receive because that does change. >> Yeah. >> How much was that? It was 5,000 for school choice last year. >> Um, our school department will be up to that information. >> That changes each year. Yep. But they'll
they'll they'll have that detail like they did last year. They'll have that um their budget >> during the public. >> Yes. >> Just a quick I don't mean to get into it or anything, but I think it was at the shared services meeting there was
concern expressed about the number of students that are dropping. Like we have like way less students than we had in 2018. I mean, is that a is that a >> actual concern for that we may not be able to afford an elementary school? I
mean, population is dropping. >> Exactly. I mean, there there seemed to be some real concern about that at that meeting. >> Superintendent, is that real? >> No. >> Um, that member, that individual was a member of a particular finance
committee, not this town. um and that based on a desire that they have, but I wouldn't I wouldn't say specifically that that's the the same level of concern. Um yeah, the reality >> elementary school is not worried about
student five or 10 years. >> No. And I I think that's a question that you're going to want to ask the Darius during the budget presentation. What are the student numbers like at Wheatly Elementary? Where are we? Um and then we need to look at the the the breakdown of
Weightley versus outside because is it the weightly are the weightly residents reducing or is are they at least stating the same. Um but that is something that you're going to want to get from the department specifically. two years ago he said at the
me and Paula went to Frontier for their school community meeting that the population of was going down students they're seeing it go >> oh yeah that was the concern >> yeah that's what Darius said >> school says they had to bring kids in
for school >> you said the preschool class had 18 >> kindergarten oh kindergarten >> has 18 lately >> yeah So >> in my sales class, I think 18 or 19 children. >> Yeah.
>> I I I don't think it's the same situation that it was two years ago. That but that's why I'm saying >> wait for the school department, >> right? >> And also take anything Dearfield says right. >> You're being recorded. >> That's okay. I I will happily
um >> charter school tuition. This shows you where we get reimbursement for charter school versus how much we have to pay for students going to charter school. Um, >> nothing this year. >> Yeah, nothing this year for sending
minimal on the reimbursement, but at least we aren't paying out sending. >> Yeah, because that is more expensive. >> So, this is saying we're only sending one student to the charter school. >> We're not sending many. We're not
sending >> We're receiving a little bit. >> Yeah, >> that's a big drop though in 23. There must >> Yeah, she different with special needs or >> uh could have Yeah.
Um and then actual local receipts. This shows you where we are with our local receipts. Again, this is um fines uh motor vehicle uh any permits. This is the cumulative orical collections.
>> Um so you can see we have been pretty high the la the last couple years. Um I mean 24 almost million dollars in FY25 just under 900,000. Um we don't have the current fiscal year calculated because
we haven't finished it yet. So, um, it's still a TBD. We're only halfway through the current fiscal year. So, that's why that's And then when we look at where those monies are coming from, so this is to show you last year because that was the most recent full year of local receipts,
a majority of that 63% came from motor vehicle excise tax. The next highest is the other excise tax >> which is what's on Um, >> is that >> Oh, there's the farm.
>> The farm. But that's only 91. >> That is one excess. >> Oh, >> I don't know. Is that Pauliz text receipts for marijuana? >> I don't know. >> It could.
>> It's possible. riding. >> Unfortunately, there's a clumping that the state has that's just called other XI. So, it does represent the next largest. >> Um, then after that, it is the investment income. Last year, we
received almost 72,000 in investment income. The next highest was solid waste fees and then downwards for the other fees which were licenses and permits, rentals, fines and forfeitures, miscellaneous, uh, penalties and interest,
>> salt waste fees to sell trash bags the transfer center, >> the investment we have in that are paying. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But this is gross amount not necessarily collected charged up or collected like
that 510,000 motor vehicle excess tax. >> Oh this is collected is it? >> Yeah it's collected because it has to be this is what's been certified certified. Yeah. >> Got it. >> All other revenue. So this is anything outside of the revenue sources that I've
gone through. That's really detailed. >> You're welcome. >> This is the This is the nonrevenue road. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's where your marijuana money. >> This is there is a significant estimation here. Um this comes from
accounting treasurer and assessors where based on the calculations they see an upward trend which has been happening but um in the current fiscal year that we're in almost 900,000 expected to be coming from other revenue.
>> So an extra $3,000 this year. >> What do we what do we have to do to go back to 2018? trying to figure out. >> I don't know what happened. >> Um, >> does the town buy lottery tickets?
>> Oh, I think we Oh, I bet you that was a cell tower. >> Oh, that makes sense. >> The cell tower. >> That makes sense. >> Any sense of what the 350,000 would be >> between this year and last year?
Yeah, >> I'm not sure. It's a great job. We already included motor vehicle. We haven't had any large projects that are going to cause all >> heck any tax idols or anything like
that. I'm not sure where that one would fall in on this. >> I don't think so. >> What about all the the marijuana farms and the shops and all that that go into here? That's what I think came in under that other excise tax.
>> Brian, looking at past minutes from 2024 when Brian was still here indicates that that would be in other excise tax. >> Oh, marijuana is in other excise tax. So, oh, so this the other excise tax back here on the 112,000 that does
include includes that. >> Yeah. Be >> interesting if I know what's driving that number though. don't have that detail. Sorry. >> All right. So, we just went through all of our revenue. So, now there's the
other side of the coin, which is what are the expense trends like as we get ready for this budget. So, to show you um because we already closed out FY25, that's the most recent year that we have
finished. This breaks down our expenditures by source. The greatest expense in FY25 was education at about 52%. Next was general government at 11%. Uh closely after that is public works
also at 11%. Um and then you you have fixed costs at 11%. Those fixed costs are things like insurance primarily it's insurance >> um >> public health insurance. >> Yeah. and property insurance. All of our
Yeah. OPED. Um and then the other departments make up a smaller fractions of the operating budget or the expenses. >> What's an intergovernmental investment? >> Those are things for like our senior
center, the EMS, >> CCP, >> uh for CO. Yep. >> So would the education include other insurance? So we we have over health insurance. >> So that would be included in fixed costs.
>> Yeah. >> And what what would culture and recreation be? >> That's like library uh cultural commission or cultural council. It's primarily library um >> also recreation. Yeah.
>> Does it historical society get >> historical society is a nonprofit. It's not part of government. Right. We have historical which gets a small money. >> So total expenditures without enterprise
or CPA over the past 10 years. You can see the expenditures have been increasing since 2019. Just a steady increase. >> Sorry, what does without enterprise CPA mean? Uh this doesn't this is just
general government. It's not showing our enterprise expenses or our CPA expenses because those are collected one. Sorry. >> Yeah. They're collected separately. We don't they're not part of the taxing. >> Well CPA is a fee on your tax. It's not
your taxes. >> Um so it has it has been increasing. Again it's all in the way you present it. Education expenditures again showing you the expenses that we've uh incurred or
paid or over the past 10 years. Education has been increasing. There was a slight reduction in 22 likely um as we were coming out of pandemic there might have been some budget but then it did jump back up in 23 and it
has been increasing. Um, so there was that one decrease in 22. Oh, actually in 17 in 22 and in 24 and
it's kind of 15% in the last two years. >> Special education has a lot to do with that. That's what they last year was mostly on special education and stuff. >> And that's been
>> this next slide shows you our total education expend expenditures at Wakeley Elementary. So here just in the town versus our total chapter 78 that we received. So Wheelley Elementary the expenses there in FY25 was just over $2
million where we're receiving in state aid in education of just 338. So the town is making up the remaining 1.7 million. It's quite a >> for the elementary school.
We know how we compare with other towns with regard to >> that information is in do but I didn't pull that out. It's not in the packet >> like how the state chapter 78. >> Nobody seems to know exactly.
>> Yeah. I I don't know the calculation for it. I think there is a table in there that shows the percent that each town pays towards their minimum contributions. Last I remember we were at 81%
be 81% of the education budget >> from taxation but I think there's a table that shows up other towns >> Conway would get more state
>> even though they have higher pass but decided what they're going to do. The government >> for chapter 70. Yeah. Uh I do not >> It looks like they did do something. >> Yeah, they did. >> Three years ago, but yeah,
>> because they were still basing everything on when they chapter 70 first came out. >> They just have a lot of me. It was about six months ago. So I went to war. >> They might have. Yeah,
>> they've been doing that every year since 2005 talking about updating the >> Yeah. I think works on always trying to push for recalculating, right? >> Yeah. And a lot of times they
kind of throw money at it based on per pupil costs. So they might say, "We're going to give each area 5,000 per student or something like that." Um, and I think that's what they might have done with that three years
ago when they Yeah, I'm not sure. But they still are talking about revamping the whole >> system. >> So this table shows you the fixed cost expenditures. This again is like primarily the insurance costs. Yeah,
cool. >> Um, so you can see there has been a steady increase in the fixed costs. Um, currently in the p the last fiscal year it was almost 800,000.
Know that that is fortunately going to increase. Is that just insurance or >> It includes multiple categories in but it's primarily insurance. Well, health insurance, property insurance, >> the majority being health insurance.
>> I don't know off the top of my head, but at our next meeting when you get the budget book, you'll see that how health insurance compares to the others because we do have it grouped. >> Good general fund debt service. This shows
how much we pay in each fiscal year or how much we've have paid in debt service um over the past 10 years each year and um right the past few years because we were paying off some leases we were at 48,659
um which should be >> there is anything this >> it should be now in the current year I think it's a thousand right there might be it's either zero or a thousand >> I think we have a death um interest. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know that there's any debt payments out there.
>> Yeah. I think we we continue to fund it with $1,000 for some reason. >> Yeah. >> But this is where discussions we're having today potentially. >> Correct. >> That would increase if we did the lease because we'd be doing that service. >> Yeah.
>> In 2017 is when we bought this building, the 1 million. >> This one. That's I Okay. In it was earlier 20 was it 2015 that we did the town hall? >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Well, this building we had originally borrowed and then we went and bought it. >> Oh, so good deal. >> Because of the cell. >> Because of the cell title. Um, this next one shows where we've been
in our free cash certifications. Free cash is essentially the extra money that you have um beyond what you expended, how much you still had in other accounts um such as all of our different uh special revenue accounts. Um it is
essentially a total of what we have available outside of our operating uh in FY25. You'll remember last year we reported that we had almost a billion billion sorry in free cash were this
current year we just were certified back in November >> uh before we went to special town meeting at almost three or yeah almost three quarter of a million at 747,000. Um, so we still have a good chunk of free cash. Um,
generally I forget what the math is. What you want is it 10% of your operating >> cash or over that. But uh, >> last year we burned down, not burned
down, but reduced cash like 250,000. >> We brought it way down. Yes. >> But somehow it popped back up. >> Yes. >> September >> again. We do estimate our revenues conservatively. >> Yep. >> So that we don't find ourselves at a in
a pinch point where we didn't make that revenue and then we have to go to town to raise. >> I know it's a nice buffer going. >> Why have we spent some, >> right? Would it be safe to say free cash is the same thing as unspent cash?
Because I've always had trouble with free cash. I mean it sounds like an option. >> Part of it is unspent. >> Yeah. Not the whole >> but a lot of it is revenue that we didn't expect. So you could have
increased revenues or unspent >> payday. Yes. More taxes >> rebates that we got. >> So it's not just unspent. part of it is but >> so what are the takeaways
when it comes to expenses? Um one takeaway is to continue or what we've been doing which is using free cash um against our tax levy. So continuing to consider continuing using free cash to
reduce the tax levy last year. So, like you mentioned, we did increase the amount of reach that we used against the tax levy. Previously, we were using 225,000 of tax levy against it, but because we had such a huge amount, the finance
committee decided that you wanted to use 300,000 instead against the tax levy. >> And that could be another reason why the tax rate went down more than what you were anticipating. I mean the the calculation did take into consider but yeah I did calculate based on 300,000
but still >> again it is conservative. >> Yeah there's 100 grand or so spent on oxygen tanks from the fire department quite a few >> cash. So the big thing that we have to be
prepared for is health insurance. Um it is rising nationally. We did increase the health insurance coverage budget at by 18% during the annual town meeting and then had a comeback at special town
we need to increase at another 20% um this past November. We anticipate the costs the will likely be another 20% increase again in this upcoming fiscal year. However, the trust is looking at
ways to offer a change in plans in order to help reduce our our costs or the potential costs in because right now all we have is a single HMO and a single PO. Uh thankfully
significant majority are using the HMO which thankfully is less expensive for us. But if we could could get a few more Blue Cross plans in there or something else, it has the potential of helping to reduce our costs. >> Is there any is there any
sort of to me this seems like a long-term concern like this thing could, you know, explode two, three, four, five years down the road. Is there something we can do now to kind of prepare for that or we're doing the
best we can for it? >> Well, I mean, like we were talking about free cash. Well, I mean, >> could you do something like consciously put things into free cash so that three years from now create a stabilization fund that could
be pulled out of >> um to then put against that health insurance costs? I I'm just wondering >> it's possible. >> Well, I'm actually just wondering is it should we be thinking about it?
>> Other things are I mean the town pays 75% of the >> health insurance. >> Um you could change that rate which >> which you don't want to do. >> Really tough. >> It's a big decrease. Yeah. >> Plus it also has to go to the union. So
um you have that as well. The hope would be you wouldn't have to do that. >> But I think I'm just curious. >> I think they are discussing making plans that have higher deductibles and or looking at plans that have higher deductibles and higher co-pays so that
the premiums would be less. Um and there are a number of people that I think young healthy people who may go for those plans, >> right? >> Rather than >> the ones that are cover more and >> this isn't just weighty. This is
grouping. >> Oh, there's 47. There were 47. I don't know how many did they lose >> in the Hampshire County grouping. Sure. >> Oh, well, there are seven. There were 73 units. Units. >> What's a unit? >> A unit is an entity. So, Franklin or
Franklin Frontier Regional >> is an entity within the the trust. Each town is an entity. Solid ways district is an entity. um they all have their own agreements in the trust as a member.
>> So how many companies are that that service the insurance >> it's just >> we just use blue cross >> in the trust >> but the the issue is not the trust GIC is seeing an increase is seeing an increase doesn't matter who
we use for our insurance we're going to see it the problem is on a national level >> so if you want to do something we need to do something nationally. >> Well, it's a hot topic. >> Uh so that's that's the only place that
we can get right now. What's happening is our insurance companies are >> healthy again. >> The insurance companies are taking out medications that they're going to cover because they're not being controlled and those those medication costs are going
through the roof and nobody's holding the companies accountable for it. So >> they're shocked. now we're the coverage because yeah it's just too expensive for the insurer to cover the profits or the medical
>> um so yeah so health insurance is going to play a big factor in the upcoming budget um also to JD's point future growth new growth in residential um while it does contribute generally
positively it slows down and it has slowed down. Um the cost of construction and rising costs is making it very difficult. It's essentially the same amount of cost to do uh a housing unit here in Western Mass as it is in Eastern
Mass. Even though the cost of um you would anticipate that it would be less, but it's not. It's the same. The construction costs are just as high. I had a discussion with the secretary of housing for Governor Healey at a chamber
of breakfast series about high cost of construction. And I asked about any adjustments to our building codes to make things a bit more affordable is of what it costs to meet our new net
zero mandates. We're adding food or thousand dollars to a house to save $100 a year in energy costs. The only answer that our government has right now for bringing down costs is to subsidize the cost by erasing our tax dollars.
That's the only answer they have. >> By what did you say? Buying >> subsidizing costs. The only way that we can bring down costs according to them is by giving out subsidies to lowering other people to create housing. That's the only raising tax
>> by raising taxes. That's the only answer we have. Not make it. Here's a classic example. A house. You can have plastic pipe anywhere you want. In a commercial building, you have to have copper or cast iron, which a cast iron pipe costs
$250 and a plastic pipe cost $25. But we are forced to use a cast iron pipe for $250 in a building because of our plumbers. That's why could we have some reform on the state side to say hey could do this
and bring down the cost >> I tried to pick a non-political area >> but that's always >> but that's what it is. And then on top of the residential growth or slowing down of residential growth, we do have the potential growth
in commercial like exit 35 if we we unfortunately have a property owner that's not utilized on property. Um which is unfortunate, but hopefully with some regulation change that recently happened that might happen. We also, although it's not noted on here, um,
Deerfield is doing a feasibility study to do the roadway connection in the industrial district from Deerfield into Weightley. And with that, expanding the sewer district from Deerfield into the the industrial district.
>> If that happens, it could help for redevelopment or utilizing some of the industrial properties here. >> Oh, yeah. >> Huge. How did that come about? >> How much they're over? >> They finally agreed that they wanted they they voted Dearfield the EDIC voted
yes that they wanted to connect. >> It's been a >> because they overfilled. >> They overbuilt. >> They overbuilt the the plan. >> They need money. >> They need rate payers. >> And what about the castaways? It's a revenue source. >> Whatever happens.
>> Great gun. >> Yeah. Yeah. They're they're the solution all the solution. Is there someone in Weightley um part of the government whatever um who is sort of you know marketing weight as a place to bring a
company like for example the new pickle ball place you know it's like >> you have to imag somebody who's promoting any of that. Is it worthless to do it or is it >> It's not worthless to do it. It's just you guys, you would have to pay a staff
member specifically to do that. Uh we don't have a ton of commercial properties in the town. >> So soliciting and trying to find that. It's not like Hatfield did anything to bring it in. It just happens to be likely that the property owner saw an opportunity
there. Um they I doubt Hatfield was searching for somebody. >> Well, that's fair. >> And marketing. Um It's also the right by the 91 too. It's a convenient spot. >> Yes, that >> but no, we don't to the short answer is no. We don't have somebody community
development administrator essentially could grow into that depending on um what possibly but yeah we it there's a lot that goes into marketing your community. >> Fair enough. But is it silly to think that if we could promote greatly as a place to bring criticism that would
break down >> we'll need the planning board to zone or commercial property >> and then if weight isn't horribly attractive well I'm just saying that because we don't have a sewer system
>> sewer system is the biggest thing Yeah, but you can only if you can hook up the deerfield. >> That's going to benefit our industrial district and then they that which is right here. Sorry. It's just this general >> area.
But otherwise, you'd have to have businesses that don't wouldn't utilize a lot of right >> waste, right? >> Yeah. So >> trying to think of a way to put it >> can't imagine >> well a data which uses a lot of
>> be located next to the river and it would be clean water in and out >> if they can source directly but yeah >> we have farmland that we like to protect along >> oh well that there's an opportunity out of a river walk along
>> yeah the as a draw. Um so a quick look just giving you um an outline of where we are in our stabilization and pre-catch accounts. Um in the general stabilization fund
there's just over 400,000. Capital has just under 300,000. Vehicle just under 60,000. Town buildings 100,000. And then the cash I've mentioned uh threequarters of >> what do we pull out of general and
capital for in our budget every year? We put money into >> Oh, we put money into it. Yeah. >> What do we What do we spend that? >> No, >> you don't. Unless you determine that a capital project should utilize
>> capital stabilization money or free cash or VIX or borrowing. uh you you as the finance committee make that determination for the recommended mode of funding those projects. >> Okay.
>> I just wonder if we have our potential meeting schedule coming up. I saw that on our next item. >> It will be. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Maybe we'll let the chair >> Okay. >> run the meeting.
Okay. So, we're all on that participation, right? And um review and discuss objectives. I mean, I >> I don't know how the finance committee determines objectives as they get it go
into how have you done it in the past? I think we wait until we're further into the budget year to determine whether you know you're how much you're going to put in the free cash to reduce the tax levy, those type of things. Is that what this is discussing?
>> Well, I mean objectives sometimes finance committee could say >> we're only interested in seeing level or a 2% reduction. Those are some objectives or >> like that >> we're going to have an objective this year that we want to increase the free
cash over a million. How do we get there? >> Um, you know, what are your long-term financial goals? And then you set the objectives to that. >> I don't recall long-term financial. It
was always said try to put things at what two two and a half% but >> I think that's about the only >> yeah as I recall last year we just sort of walked through each department's budget right weren't a lot of questions
and there were certainly no cuts and we just went on and on and on and at the end like here's how it all adds up how do we pay for it I'm trying to keep the tax rate under 14 >> right >> but I like the idea of having an objective throw it on the right knife.
>> Yeah, it might be where we need to wait a little bit longer. >> Yeah. >> And I put it on just because Yeah, but um we don't even have the estimated budget yet because I'm still waiting on some significant budgets to come in. So,
but we we'll you'll get a glimpse uh next meeting when you get your budget books. >> Okay. said the next topic is to review the the schedule and maybe >> so that is in your packet.
>> Yeah. Um I'm a member member of the timing board. So February 4th grant our chairman is going to be out of the country and he asked if I could just answer any general questions about that. Is that allowed? >> Yep. But I can also handle it. Your planning board budget is minimal at
best. >> Yeah. There's nothing contentious about it. Is it better if you do a little bit? >> It's easier if I know it. >> Okay. He asked me if I could do it like I'll ask. >> Yeah. No, it'll be easier if I just handle the question. That's >> right. >> Okay. Were there any other questions on the budget?
>> All departments on this have been notified and I've made adjustments based on their needs. So, this is essentially what works for everybody. I will not be present for the March 4th meeting,
>> which is primarily a lot of my stuff. Yeah. So, you're going to be missing >> the good the good stuff. >> And um I won't be here on March 18th. >> March 18th. I won't be here on the 18th
either. Jess, by the way, Jess is also now the assistant town administrator, but Jess will be standing in for me at that. >> Congratulations. >> I always forgetting that elementary schools here so early in this process.
>> What time are they? >> These meetings are all at 5:00 p.m. >> And how long do we expect? >> 5 to 7. essentially about two hours. >> Yeah, about two hours. >> Um, >> do you have any dates for the Frontier
School? I mean, their meetings. >> Yeah, they're on February 25th. >> No, I mean um >> Oh, when they >> Oh, I don't know their >> I'll keep an eye out for them.
>> Okay, that's um liaison updates. I'm on the uh personnel committee meeting personnel committee as the liaison and we're meeting on Thursday. Nothing that I'm aware of in terms of
>> we'll continue preparing for cola and are there salary recommendations but yeah nothing nothing discussed yet. >> I'm on exit 35 and there's nothing to report and I'm on capital
yet. Okay, >> we have our first meeting on the meeting. >> Okay, >> I went to the shared services meeting which is sort of a general discussion. We're having another one in February. Nothing for shadowing.
I am on the um also the housing committee not as a leaison but as a member and right now there's a focus on developing potentially developing the deo property on five and 10 so between the passed away and the weight niner
but putting in potentially residential real estate. Uh the town did a study a couple years ago or commissioned a study a couple years ago that I've looked at. The basic answer we need to get at the moment is how much septic load could that? So there'll be hopefully a request
coming of the um capital committee at some point u to fund a landscape group to be able to come in and do test pits which weren't done apparently for the original septic >> that was put in in 90 >> many years ago
>> six I think >> but until we the goal here would be it was the residential side you potentially could put in maybe 30 units. >> Can you talk to conservation? >> Yep. Okay. >> Talked to conservation, talked to board health, talked to the Greenfield housing
authority and talked to FK >> as the conservation had concerns at the time >> relative to the wetlands and the setback. The question is how do you handle it? You have a traditional septic system need a big long field. But there
are now there's newer technology that allows a small footprint with curved drainage um that could easily be adaptable to the site would allow for additional landscaping. Putting pagotas on the green space could make it really
nice. Um we need to get to about 30 units for a local developer to really be interested in building. But again it depends on the septic. So, right now I'm on the hunt. Uh we're about probably5 to $7,000
to have the testing done. I've been told you need to wait until town meeting and put your capital request and all that stuff, but I don't know. I don't know if that's true or not. >> That's true. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah, you can't do that.
>> As a finance committee member, you know, you can't spend money unless it's been approved. I understand I'm trying to bring and update the committee. >> Yeah. >> But I have lots of people in different parts of this organization as well as the communities around us interested in
the concept. But until we do the test pits to determine can you how much housing can you put or can it be commercial? What can it be? We just need to figure it out because the site is not producing revenue for the town. And so it seems to me spending
five grand to figure out can it produce revenue? If it can't game up, but if it can, then the question is what kind of real estate? Who owns it? >> Well, the town took it when the restaurant burned down and didn't pay their taxes. >> Okay. The town took it. So it the town
has the advantage of owning 4 acre site, which to a developer could be very attractive in terms of negotiation. >> Um, but we'll just have to wait and see. But if you could put housing in there, that's a definite revenue source as potentially could be commercial or some
kind. >> We're working our way through. >> There's not a wetland issue there. >> There's wet land um probably half the site, but there's still probably about three buildable acres. And so >> is that is that
>> isn't there a a limit? I remember town a few years ago pushed this whole thing to limit lot size to three acres because of the protecting the water aquifer. >> I think that >> this is an underground discharge approved through the state DP that
doesn't impact the aquifers. >> It doesn't. >> No, >> but also I don't think this would be a subdivided lot. That's what I would imagine. >> It wouldn't be multiple houses. It would be one >> five condos in it or something.
>> Potentially a building, think of with elevators, >> two or three stories. Maybe it's garage parking underneath and buildings above. >> Keep it in character with weight in terms of the skin. >> Maybe make it look like, you know, a farmhouse type thing like they have
>> over. That's a great idea. That's actually not a bad idea. >> I really like that. >> Thank you. >> George or New York. >> Anyway, posters. >> Sounds good. Are there any other items?
If that's >> hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> So move. >> Second. Seconded. >> All in favor?