All right. Good evening, everybody. It's um 7:02 p.m. on the 8th of September. Uh we're going to just convene a meeting of the trustees of the Weightley Housing
Trust. So, I'm calling that meeting to order at 7:02 p.m. The first item of business for the housing trust is to review and approve minutes. U we approve the minutes.
>> Okay. Just like that. I've I will So, the motion has been made to approve the minutes. Um I guess I'll second the motion. um to approve. I'll say, you know, I've
read the minutes. Um I just wanted to say one thing. So you Monzerat did it did I'm just confirming it. You did include the feedback from Judy about the $15,000.
>> I did. >> Good. Awesome. Everything else looked good. Um, so, oh, and I I would just as feedback, I don't think Monserat you need to include in the minutes a link to the online recording. I mean, it's
>> okay, I'll take that. >> Fine if you want to dig it out, but but FCAT seems to take their sweet time in getting those things public and so I wouldn't uh I wouldn't worry about that. Uh, and we don't have So, we'll note
that tonight, of course, Judy is no longer the CPC representative. It would be Paula Jenkins. Paula couldn't join us tonight due to illness, so it's just the four of us. Okay. So, the motion has been made and seconded. All in favor?
Uh, any other discussion about the minutes hearing? None. Um, all in Oh, roll call vote since we're on Zoom. >> Yeah. Um, I'll start with uh Fred Orski. >> Yes. >> Fred Baron. >> Yes.
>> Monserat. >> Hi. >> And I'm Yes. So for to, you know, nothing. No abstensions and so the minutes are approved. I don't think
there's any housing trust business. >> Move to adjourn the housing trust meeting. Do I hear a second to adjurnn the house? >> All right, the motion has been made and second and I think we have to do another roll call vote. So, uh,
>> but before we do, do we want to set our next meeting? >> We do. Yes. Before, so while we're discussing and we said, Monserat, that we would the housing trust, the trustees would meet, was it every other month?
Was that what was our agreement? >> There's no need to meet every month, though a meeting can be called at shorter notice if we need it. >> Right. >> I think we need to have a meeting quarterly. >> Quarterly. >> Yeah. So, we could plan three months from now. >> Okay. So, so that would be October,
November, December. >> So, approximately the 8th. >> Yeah, I already have that written down. December 8th. >> December 8th. >> Okay. So I'm going to just add in
>> housing trust. So again this time I you know again apologies but um uh the arrangement should be that the housing trust meets at 7 for
purposes of posting an agenda and that tonight is just um just a mistake to have everything started at seven. Okay. So, we have our next >> instead of starting at 7, if we'd prefer to start at 6, schedule the housing
meeting for the trust meeting for 6 and the uh housing committee meeting for 605. >> I see. Sure. I we can do that. But I think >> unless unless you figure to have trust business.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Tonight was a mistake, right? Started the seven o'clock start. I take it people are generally preferring a six o'clock start to a seven o'clock start. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, next time please, you know,
somebody else look at draft minutes after I circulate them, though. I'll try not to make the same mistake twice. I usually try not to make the same. >> That's the kind of thing that doesn't get noticed anyway. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Anyway, but um so the game plan is uh so we'll agree uh and for the
minutes that the housing trust will meet on December 8th at on that particular night at 6 o'clock, >> right? >> And um >> and then the housing committee will schedule to start at 6:05. >> Yeah, that unless something comes up.
Sure. >> Yeah. >> Sure. Okay, that's good. So I'll have to try to remember remember that when that time comes and I don't screw up the minutes again. Okay, so we're back to the motion to adjourn.
>> Bring up one other one. >> Uh it seems that there's going to be maybe Fred Baron knows for sure. Uh a special meeting, town meeting this this
fall. And is there CPA items on the agenda? And is one of them going to be to use the transfer the CPA housing bucket funds to the housing trust? Is that going to be on the agenda?
>> As far as I know, I have not heard that it is going to be. >> Is is that something it should be? My understanding Fred O is that the position of the CPC the U is that they
will only make transfers to the trust upon request of the trust and we might have to sort of explain why we want the money. They just don't proactively pass money over to us.
>> They keep it in their own little CPC wants to keep control of the money until they see a purpose. >> Yeah. >> A specific purpose. >> And I can't blame them given we have 115,000 that we've had now for a while and that we haven't used.
>> And how much is in the the CPA bucket, the housing bucket? Do we know? >> That I don't do not know. >> That would be a question for Paula. It it it's I'm trying to remember last time I heard
because it's sort of a loose ear and there is housing money but there's also a general bucket that housing could come out of, >> right? Um, so I don't know how much is dedicated
housing as opposed to general that could because I think the the total fund now is about 600,000 if I remember correctly. >> So don't quote me, but that was the number that I recall. But how much of
that housing I don't know. >> Okay. >> How about this, Fred? I'll email Paula since she's our representative to the CPC to just basically ask for clarification on like the CPC's policy
for transferring housing related funds to the housing trust. >> Yeah. >> Right. As you know on the select board we get the uh the list of accounts the uh every month
>> right? But the CPC account is not broken down by bucket. It's just a g a lump sum of how much CP is in the CPC fund. >> Okay. >> But the CPC is obliged to internally track,
>> right? They they track internally, but I haven't asked for that, but I do get a monthly, you know, four-page list of town accounts and what's in them. So the housing trust is another line item in that. So, so could I ask Brent for the
next meeting of the housing trust for Paula to give us a status report on the funds available to >> you may of course we're so this is quite a discussion of our motion to adjourn but yes >> it's really this is really procedural
administrative this isn't a uh substantive discussion >> right okay Um, so any other discussion of the motion to adjurnn? >> Um, hold on. I just want to make sure I get that last request correct. So,
>> okay. The request was >> that >> I will >> ask Paula as our representative to the CPC to um give us uh a to to find out for us
one how much housing how many how much funds are earmarked for housing in the CPC account at present at that and two what their policy is for
transferring funds from their housing bucket to the housing trust. >> Yeah, that doesn't even have to be minuteed because it's the kind of thing that one of us could have asked you outside of the meeting >> and just can you include on the agenda
for next time >> something. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um but I have another question. Um, I thought I was our rep on the CPC and Paula is the CP. Is Paula on the
CPC? >> I am so confused. I apologize. Um, >> I thought I was representing the housing committee on the CPC. >> Okay. And Judy was representing the CPC on the housing trust. >> But J but Judy is off that.
>> Yeah, Judy's off >> has resigned that. >> Oh, okay. >> And I thought that was so we might have to go back to the minutes to >> Yeah, I I don't recall which one was designated as a representative.
>> So is is Paula on the CPC? Uh, I that was what I thought. >> I'm just gonna I'm gonna look that up right now >> because I know my name is on there. >> Okay. All right. So, look that up. But it
seems like I reme I'm recalling communicating Paula's name to whomever is required to appoint her because who else would the housing
committee have a representative to besides the CPC? Um, her name is not on the committee members of the CPC and my name is >> all all references to Paula and CPC shall now be Monserat and CPC.
>> Okay. >> Okay. So then these actions are yours Monserat. >> Okay. to find out how much the CPC is holding in housing committee funds
and you know what they would you know need from us to transfer more money from their account to ours. I'll have to find and I'll have to find out what I thought. I'm sure we appointed Paul out of something but >> must have been another committee.
>> Yeah, I remember appointing Paul to something but I don't remember what. Okay. Okay. Are we good to adjourn if I do a roll call vote? >> Okay. Housing trust. All right. Uh Fred Orloski. >> Yes. Ajourn.
>> Uh Fred Baron. >> Yes. >> A Monserat. >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. So, the housing trust is adjourned. So, we are ne it is now 7:15 p.m. and I will convene
tonight's meeting of the housing committee. Once again, our first order of business is to approve, review, and approve minutes. In this case, um minutes of the
last housing committee meeting on July 14. Uh they all looked it all looked complete and accurate to me. I of course Monzerat you can remove the question about housing trust meeting at the end.
Um >> but the the minutes look correct to me. So I would entertain a motion to >> move to approve the minutes. >> Fred Baron has moved to approve the minutes. Any
other but anyone want a second? >> Second. >> All right. Monserat seconds conflict of interest. No, not really. All right. Um, any discussion? Any other discussion? Amendments to the minutes of the housing
committee meeting. Hearing none. Roll call vote. Fred Orloki. >> Yes. >> Fred Baron. >> Yes. >> Monsurat. >> Yes. >> Grant. Yes. All right. So, we're done with the minutes. Now,
we have time tonight at 7:15 to carry on some discussion of housing committee business. Yay. >> Let's do it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. I'm going to propose that we skip over at least for now the
agenda item to discuss the mission statement of the housing committee. not to suggest that it's not worthwhile, but I I would rather take up uh the DO property report. I know that Jerry did a
careful look at it and had comments that he he circulated everybody. I do want to know from Fred Baron as our select board representative what you can tell us about the current position of the town or you
know like sort of like Jerry after looking at the report I well I don't want to speak for Jerry but I personally looked at the report said huh looks like a lot of opportunity there like how why how are we are we moving so I'd like to
just find out >> the the current position of the town seems to be that this is a report sitting on a shelf. >> Ah waiting for >> waiting for action or further inaction. >> Okay. All right. So, so
>> now you know the comment that I got from Judy in particular when this came out, you know, a year or two ago, whenever it was, uh, was that yes, you know, some things
looked positive there. On each of the proposed plans, there were significant issues with how with town zoning code and the ability to construct any of these as proposed.
>> Okay. >> I do not remember in all cases what it was, but there is, you know, number of units and lot coverage. There were all kinds of issues that it's it's sort of a pie in
the sky. Maybe you could do this with the land kind of report, but getting down to, you know, working out indivi, you know, could we do this one? Well, each one has significant
pride planning board issues. Well, not I'm sure that's not insurmountable particularly for that property. And what >> what I don't know is that we did pass and what and it was approved by the
attorney general's office this community housing bylaw which is now in our zoning bylaws which I have to refresh my mind on that but it was definitely intended to provide certain kinds of waiverss and
relaxations on uh normal setbacks and spot coverages and things of that nature. >> And and there are state provisions for waving assuming now assuming you could that these could get built in such a
manner as they could be affordable. >> Yes, that's right. That's right. So you couldn't pro you probably couldn't do um 100% market rate on that property. the community housing bylaw, which I'm
happy at our next meeting to just like circulate and summarize for everyone because it was but um you know I believe it was you have to designate at least 25% of the units
to be on the shr >> right and and as we know the problem with that is when you get into numbers of affordable units the interest of developers goes down because there isn't the return. >> Sure. Sure. And this might be again
where CPA funds could start to be deployed, >> right? >> Okay. All right. So, >> I think Fred Fred has comment. I think going going back a little further, the one of the concerns the town had of of
that parcel is see the the town has has had ownership of that parcel for I'm guessing 12 15 years whatever and it has never been to my knowledge put on the market for sale by the town since the
town took it over for default of tax payments back 15 years ago. Brad, I think I there I don't know if it has been formally listed, but I know have talked to both Pete and Brian before him have indicated to me there
have been inquiries about it. >> Okay. The inquiries >> never went anywhere. >> Inquiries from the the listing agent. I've talked before to listing agent South Deerfield that there's agents there that they've listed it. It's it's
been on the market. Uh, I don't think it's the town didn't own it and it was the prior owner had it on a market for two or three years and the price kept going down and no no interest on it and the town hasn't even put a sign up there for sale. And I think one of the
concerns what I remember Brian Dominic telling us is they can't really do that. You have to go through some regulations to dispose of of town property or excess property or whatever. go through a federal register or formal notice to do
that. And I don't think the town has ever taken that step to do that or to investigate what that process is to get rid of the property because it comes down to, you know, if whatever is is
developed there, uh, I don't think the town is going to own it or manage it. So, it's going to be be sold to some developer. And how do we do that? That that's one of the initial steps I think somebody needs to find out what's the process to do it.
Presumably, Fred Orloski, you're not suggesting that the housing committee, you know, recommend to the town to just sell the land like we we do, I think, see a potential for,
well, maybe I don't know how strong a possibility, but we see a possibility based on this Deio property report of developing it for affordable housing. Do we not? Jerry, just a quick question. I mean, based on your I think more knowledgeable look at the report and
some of the options, did it strike you like did you come away thinking like, yeah, we should be able to do something here? >> I think in uh I appreciate you allowing me to participate. It was an interesting report to read.
My concern would be that the concentration is not very high. It's certainly developable. >> Um, one of the suggestions I had, I think you could get more units than the 24 unit building if you put parking at
ground level, build a podium, and then built your units on top. These are eight units on three floors. There's no reason you couldn't have 10 units on four floors. If you have three fours, you're going to need an elevator
anyway. Well, no. You there is a restriction. You've got a 35 foot height restriction >> for the town. So, you really can't go to four stories. >> Is that a town bylaw or a zoning bylaw? Height restriction. >> That I that is a zoning bylaw. >> I'm sure.
>> So, again, I'd want to check with the community housing piece about whether height restrictions could be relaxed, >> waved. Right. um if you could relax it to do that and
you could put let's say we could you could put in 40 units of housing you could make it all essentially workforce housing so some at 110% of AMI some at 80 some at 50 um spread it out that way
with a building that size you might even be able to have a small community gathering room because it's a a little bit isolated of face. Um but I think there are plenty of um subsidy incentives available and also with the
HR1 that was passed earlier this year that has its own carveouts for affordable housing credit tax credits for developers and there's likely more of that to be coming soon. So when I looked at I thought you know you should
be able to go up but you need somebody that you need an architect that understands how the building works. How do you get the trash out? You going to have trash shoots or people going to carry their stuff down on an elevator, which I don't think you really want. Where you going to put the dumpsters? How do you deal with the parking? I I
don't think that massing the parking at the front um is a very good look. It's just basically an asphalt parking lot with a couple buildings behind it. sticking it behind the units behind the building ruins the entire aesthetic of
the wood line that you have which I think makes that you know could be a nice property. Um I also focused a little bit and I wanted to ask your thoughts on the septic system because if you go to 35 40 units how does that work?
>> I was going to ask that. Yes. >> Yeah. And so I did a little bit of um research on my own just to look at the situation. You don't have to have the traditional like we have at all the homes here in Whley big long leeching
fields along with your pool. They make what are called mechanical treatment units. Essentially a small, think of a small wastewater plant where they're purifying the liquid side which is then
released underground subs soil or potentially piped into water just like they do up in u what is that leverit or Mont Montigue I think. Um, and then the you have to pump it out um, usually
once a year, but you can do this in essentially about 5,000 square feet. Um, I talked to a company that does this all over the United States. I'd be happy to send it along and talk to a guy about it. Um, and his feeling is, well, if you
have 40 units, call them all two bedrooms, that's 80 beds, it's 100 gallons a day. You need roughly an 8,000galon tank unit to service, which doesn't take up very much space at all, much smaller
than the septic would. Those are expensive. But if you find a developer where you have some other way to say, "Hey, let's figure out how to make the money work." For example, the town owns the land. Mhm.
>> The units, he told me, are probably a couple hundred grand for the unit and then you have probably to pay anotherundred 150 to have it installed and then you service it. He mentioned that you can even take the
water, purified water, and use that for your irrigation. So, you have sort of a green building thing going on. I I think it's worth looking at having this with a subsurface drain field how that ties into abuing the conservation land is a question but this might also
prove useful for other parcels of land in town where you at least have connections to water but you don't have the area to put the septic >> right >> so I think I had mentioned him uh the study that was done by VHB
but I told him I would mention it tonight to you guys and if you're interested I can send him that study, let him have a chance to review the specs that were in there and the data, and then he could come back with a proposal that's a little more refined relative to budget, what you can do,
what you can't do. You have to bury it a little deeper because you're in New England versus Arizona, etc., etc. But I think that would be very helpful. And the trade might be with a developer who's gonna say, "Well, that's another
$350,000 I have to deal with. It would only cost me a hundred grand to put in septic." You can say, "Hey, you've got four acres of land here." You could use that as an incentive rather than just give it away to a developer, sell it to a developer, and hope for the best. find
a way to entice a developer that has affordable housing experience to come look at the opportunity and say, "Hey, it it could work." Mhm. >> So, I've worked >> I mean, I would say of of all the things
that I think this committee could do, I really finding a project and understanding that it wouldn't become a housing, you know, overnight or even in a year, but really focusing on something. I I don't know of any other
parcel in town. I mean, aside from the center school, you know, up in Wheatley Center, which doesn't seem like prime affordable housing anyway, given it's so far off of 510, you know, the this the Deo property is right on a, you know, a
main road, so there should be public transportation and things like that, >> right? >> Um, that thing that Judy floated like, oh, we might buy that multif family house. I mean, I'm putting words in her mouth. You know that this multif family house up in Wheatley Center like again I
don't see the town buying and oper and trying to run a you know pre-built. So anyway, I just find this idea exciting and I I feel like it would be worth our time and effort. I I think that what
this plan needs more than anything else is a champion is someone or ones to really push it forward and you know if this committee wants to make that its aim then that's
you know would you know and it may or may not ever turn into anything we don't know but more than as I said the as of now it's been sitting on a shelf Yeah. >> And it needs >> just >> it needs a push. >> Go ahead, Fredo.
>> The the the use of that property was was investigated with Habitat for Humanity, I don't know, six, eight years ago, and they weren't interested because the environmental the wetland issues would cost too much to bake that and put any kind of housing in there. what the
housing committee started to look at before and there there is enough frontage there. There is enough lot size to have four individual units, four housing units on that parcel. So, you could sell it as
individual building lots, four individual building lots. And that's that's one option rather than going for a 12 or or 20s story building, which to me doesn't really fit the character of the town anywhere. But four individual building lots may
and building lots on State Road are going very reasonable. So there may be somebody that would buy one or two or even all four building lots to put up some kind of housing unit. You can do that. There is room there. There is frontage there. So there's a lot size
there. Uh the the other option that we we looked at some and it didn't really go anywhere is Lasal Lel Drive extension. We looked at I know buying one house there that they weren't interested in but at the end of Lel
Drive there is another vacant well vacant building plus another storage building and some excess land that abuts I91. It has access to uh public transit if you walk up to the to the state road
intersection there. So, you have access there. Uh it's land that's probably nobody is going to want to build a house there that looks at I91 traffic is what you're looking at. But you could put
some kind of uh condos, multi-units, housing in in that area. Uh the owner it lives in Hatfield. Uh he owns property in in in Wheatley as well. Uh I I think
if uh if we approach the owner to make some kind of uh deal to forego say he pays taxes on it, forgo taxes if he would donate the the land part of the land whatever to the town for our use for for
for housing. uh create some kind of partnership if he wants to be part of the partner that would help develop the the property. Uh it would be his his contribution to value the land plus our contribution for CPA CPC funds. I mean
you have a you would have a sizable pot of money to to leverage for with a developer or other grant funds that that is committed to the project. Uh, somebody needs to, I guess, again,
champion that and figure out where on that parcel you you could put the put the housing units and maybe first talk to the owner to see if he's willing to to work with the town to develop something there. >> I thought he was already approached and
he said no. >> No, they was only that not that the other guy. >> There was another house. >> Okay. Yeah, >> one house there and I don't know if what the town would have done if we if we bought the one house. I mean, it would be one parcel, but uh to me there there
is some land there. It needs to be investigated. And I was hoping, you know, if we had Rusty or somebody in town to do that, we would coordinate and talk with the owners with with uh see what financing was available and come up
with a with a maybe a partnership agreement with several different agencies or entities that would work on developing that kind of like you got Sanders in place in Sunderland. I mean, that was kind of a partnership deal. I don't know exactly who owns all that now
or what arrangements were, but uh I I I think we we have we have money to be in a position to contribute. I think the landowner has money as as could contribute also and maybe that would be an incentive to get a developer.
>> Brad, can you can you do a screen share because I've got the assessment map up. >> Can I do a screen share? Oh, you mean I can make you a co-host? >> Make you Right. I'm making Fred Baron a so hold on a
second Fred Orloski I'd like to hear from you why I think you know Weightley and a small body like ours has very limited capacity to pursue more than one project at a time. I'm hearing the town
owns the Deo property, >> right? >> You're talking about another piece of property that the town doesn't own and there's a number of uncertain steps and negotiations that we would have to go through to so why do you think we should
put aside because I believe we can only do one. Why are you recommending or are you that we stop focusing on the Deo property and instead focus on this other property? because I I think it's a better location and you could get more
units there that would be I guess compatible with the rural nature of of the town possibly and even if if we sell Deio property one developer or four individual lots maybe use that money to go to this other other parts other
project use that money to support that >> uh maybe the two could work in conjunction I I don't No, but >> All right, Fred, did you want to You have co-host abilities. >> Yeah, my problem. Hold on. Host tools.
>> It's hard to tell on the assess on that map uh where the wetland boundaries are. >> Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how to >> Yeah, >> it's it's >> set it up so I can show my screen. >> It's it's a regular shape and it goes quite a bit south of of the of the
buildings that are there now. I don't want to allow all >> while Fred is Fred Baron is >> Yeah, this this is a Zoom issue. >> Okay. And if you're stuck, I can share my screen and find my way over. I know
how to get to the assessor's map. >> Hold on. No. Okay, I found it. Hold on. Give me a second. And and I think >> if the other if the owner of this other property just is not really, you know, willing and able to play ball with us
quickly, I don't see any we're just wasting our time burning cycles about this. So, I mean, if anything, Fred, if you want to or if we want to draft a letter from the housing committee to the owner asking if if he would if they
would consider some arrangement to sell or donate this land to the town. I'd be willing to do that. We've already with the Lasal other Lasal property, we went, we had the conversation that we were rebuffed. So, I don't want to burn more
cycles imagining what we could do with land that we don't own, >> right? >> We figure out that we could possibly own it. >> How hard is that parcel? >> But, but that parcel is, you know, I can't see anybody really wanting to
build their uh individual houses. Maybe >> we couldn't imagine why the other owner would not want to just sell this broken down, you know, useless piece of property. Okay. I I thought I was clicked what I had to to share and it's not.
>> I'm sh I'm I'm seeing your screen share though. It's a little uh it's a little clipped as if it were coming off of a cell phone. >> And and and the other thing that the owner of >> There it is. >> that property uh is not a very good
landlord of other property he has in town, other buildings. He's the pumpkin man on on five and 10. >> Uh The reason I I don't know if you can will be able to see it or not. >> Yes. >> The if you did, you'd see an issue with
it is the current the property's got a lot of wetland on it, >> right? in a flood. So to the bottom there's >> and the area at the end of Lasal Drive is sort of a bottleneck where there are currently buildings
between the end of Lasal Drive and the flood plane. >> Yeah. >> Such that I if I remember mount the owner had a problem with doing this because doing something at the end of Lasal Drive would deny him access to the
rest of the property. Well, yeah, >> I remember that. >> And that's I a we couldn't build fur there couldn't be something built further to the west because of the flood plane and building on the east side of
the property at the end of Lasal Drive would cut off access to the twothirds of the half two-thirds of the property south of Lasal Drive. uh the the one that we we looked at before I think is number what 29 parcel
29 which isn't quite directly well it's adjacent to it but not well doesn't show the wetland area for that but yeah >> yeah but that that's out of the question because they're not selling >> well you'd have to you'd have >> they're not interested in selling
>> you'd have to deal with the whole parcel uh at the end of the sale drive I guess because you the rest of it would landlocked area uh >> right and that we I don't think we want to own that large
parcel to which is uh >> it's but it's the par it also comes out on click road too number lot 31 is all part of that parcel lot 31 all goes on there and and I guess maybe my my
interest is if we were to do anything there would be like I say the person is uh not a very good landlord of buildings and property he owns in Hatfield and he's up in age and if something happens
to him I I mean he may be in a position to just get rid of the property now uh because he has no interest in further developing as you can see there or maintaining what's there he's not doing that well maybe he has some some vehicles or
>> yeah but >> I'm gonna step in his chair here. I'm going to step in his chair here because this seems like the kind of debate we can just have to no end all night long. >> I think at best we're we could consider because we don't
have a Rusty anymore. So, and if >> we will have someone else in that position just >> and how how long will they last? We'll see. So the question is, Fred Orloski, since you seem to be championing this
particular thing, do you want to take the action to draft a letter that we would then on behalf of the housing committee to the owner of this property? I am not going to take this action. I'm of the right now I'm sort of persuaded
that this is going to be a waste of time, but I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. and not willing to invest time. >> If I can interrupt, the other issue is it's a 65 acre total lot. >> Yeah.
>> Of which we'd be looking for a tiny portion and then have to deal with the rest of it. And the tiny portion we want is right out of the middle. >> Oh, I see. So, we'd have to have to be an ANR to divide the the parcel.
>> It it would be messy and the town wouldn't want to own those. Now, it's possible the north end near Clavarak is something that someone like Kestrel Land Trust might be interested because it's right along
>> the river. >> Um >> I think Fred Orloski, you're going to now have to hit a high bar not during a meeting like if you want to draft up like a sort of a sketch of how or what. But I'm not hearing any possibility here. I'm seeing that there's much more
promise on the Deo property. We own the land. We've had a consultant do some work there. I mean, I just don't know, Fred, how you can how we can get from where we are today to affordable housing on this parcel without just a lot of,
you know, suns and moons and stars aligning. And if you see differently like try to persuade us but not just by you know do some work outside of the meeting and come back with a concrete sketch of how this could work.
>> Okay. >> And and that's what any of these projects as I said before needs is a champion. So I'm going to take the ball run with a particular project. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm again, I'm no expert, but I I'm right next door to Jerry
and uh you know, I'm I think it I mean, also for the Deo property, it seems to me it's in a part of the town where if uh if something went up that was multi-story
and, you know, didn't viol you know, was beyond the normal height restrictions, the idea that that would somehow be out of the character of Weightley. I mean, I'm not buying it. I mean, other people may argue that, oh my god, we can't have
a fourstory building on that parcel, but I think what you would >> I think what you would get is people worrying about whether rightly or wrongly that stretch starting to become
like Route 47 or 116 Sunderland. If you put something big down there that all of a sudden is that gonna become a strip of big buildings like that which the town doesn't want. >> Well, >> I'm not saying it's I'm saying that's
what I predict would. >> Yeah. I mean, the other argument I hear you. I mean, people can object to all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons, but there's going to I think, as you know, there's hopefully going to come a time where we start doing some kind of opportunistic opportunity
district zoning around exit 35 and creating new kinds of businesses there and having housing right down the street um would be great. So, >> I also think if if I can speak to that,
being able to keep your people who live in the town, remain in the town as they potentially age in place or people that are working in the town having an affordable place to live. Um, I would think it would be one of the goals of
the housing committee. You could make a very attractive building. The one in Sunderland, I think, is great from all angles. um as I uh as I've walked around it and driven by it and you could make it look as it does over there almost sort of
barn-like with its feeling and its uh its coloring the way they've laid out. >> Yeah. No, I'm not talking about the one building in Sunderland. I'm talking about the stretch along the southern part of Route 47. You've got a lot of garden apartments and then the
apartments out along 116 as you head towards Ammerst. >> Correct. which I think is what this town doesn't want. >> That makes sense. And I think if you had one goodlook building that served the purpose of housing your seniors,
workforce housing for people in the, you know, even the tri community. >> I don't disagree. I'm just sort of playing devil's advocate and looking at the political side of this. >> Yeah. And I think it's not it doesn't have to spread out like the uh the that
community the social that's one of the ugliest developments and I completely understand what you what you're talking about but I think you could architecturally make this a very attractive building where there's nothing there and people like wow that's really cool. It's it's not putting you
know housing above a Walmart. It would be something that's dedicated that addresses your goal of affordable housing and more housing which is more tax revenue um without overstretching I would think the school systems depending on how you uh you set up what the
building's use will be uh could be could be very attractive >> for you know the right uh for the right developer. Just one question, Jerry. Just another >> I mean I the idea of having something that's pure housing in that location is
certainly appealing, but um given other things I was reading in the housing production plan, do you think that there might be possibility for sort of a mixeduse commercial? >> It is for commercial. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's I would think would be I'd have to
look again at the plan, but I would think it'd be pretty tight to put something in addition to because then you've got to provide parking for it to go uh >> to deal with the retail. I mean, I've seen, you know, lots of developers do apartments above retail.
>> That is I think what would have to be the option. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, but if you do that, then you have to think about how am I going to deal with the parking issue. And you know, if you put in 40 apartments and now you have 80 cars, they have to live
somewhere as do their visitors. Uh, and then the retail in order to succeed is going to need volume. >> You know, the worst thing you you I think would wind up with a cannabis shop with apartments above that are senior housing. just be
>> be really uh really challenging. >> I think the cannabis boom may be over actually. >> But and also I think if if you did a commercial ground level, >> I don't think you could get 40 apartments. >> Yeah. >> Above and beyond that.
>> And there would be the traffic issues, >> right? But I think it would be it might be commercial >> plus 25 or something. >> Right. Right. I >> a bad idea. Otherwise, it's going to be a very tall building, >> right? It's going to look uh awkward,
but yeah, that's a that's a possibility. Have you guys ever worked with affordable housing developers? >> We have not >> have contacts in this area at all? >> No. >> Um we I mean I sort of know some people
at um >> Cath Katherine Walowitz knows those people and she >> had been >> and was was pessimistic during her time on this committee. >> Yeah. about their interest in the smaller project.
>> But I think Katherine was, you know, I think there was this sense where we kind of boxed ourselves into this idea that the only thing that would fly in Weightley would be something like four or eight housing units, which would be
too small for any of these developers to even consider working on. But if we're able to think bigger to the tune of something like 30 or 40 units, if that's feasible, I still, you know, but if that could really work, then maybe.
>> Yeah. A suggestion for you. I'm not a member of your committee, but I like to >> you can be. >> Let's see how the conversation goes. Um, if we're still focused on Deo. So I I was an executive VP for the largest
affordable housing developer in the country >> um um based in uh Boston when residential um and I still have very good contacts there. I would I would suggest I could
forward off this proposal, this development study uh to the septic guys to see what they have to say about it. When I'm armed with that information, I could then reach out to the development company. They do a lot of work in Western Mass. Um they build a number of
um housing complexes which um you probably wouldn't like as much over in Amherst back in the day. Um but they've also they do a lot of mill conversions, really great real estate. Uh they've done a lot of work in Worcester, they've done some stuff in Springfield. U but
they're they develop all over the country as well. But at least I could get to some people that I could bounce the idea off who might say, you know, we need a hundred units, which is what I typically dealt with when I was running projects to be
of interest to us. But Jerry, you might want to talk to this guy. Um, and I know there are developers that do smaller projects. Just a question of who up in this area, somebody in Springfield is
probably the that's probably the right place. I don't know somebody would come up from Hartford, but it might be worth at least a conversation that can provide you with some context to say, hey, this this is good or crazy idea. Let's not even spend more time on it.
>> Jerry, would you join the committee? >> Yes, I'd like to. I think that can be arranged. >> How do you do? How do you join? Is it just a member? Do you have >> I just did. >> Yeah. >> You just need application. Let's put it that way.
>> Yes. To be appointed. >> Yeah. I mean, if you're open to that to being formally appointed, just like you were appointed to the finance committee. Same basic process. I think we would all I don't think there are any objections here but we would just forward a
recommendation to the select board and then there would be an appointment letter. >> Okay. >> I I certainly think your experience and expertise would be very useful here. >> Yes. >> Okay. I' I'd like to contribute uh whatever I can. So,
>> and I I would say I I don't know what our full complement consists of whether we're a five or a seven person committee is designated. >> If if we're too many, I'll resign. >> No, if if it's too many, I'll resign and
just become liaison. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> There you go. >> I would give me right to sit in the meetings, just not vote. That's all. So would would you as a committee like me to reach out to this aquitech system and
forward that report and then also reach out to uh the folks that I um have worked with over at win just to get their feedback and then I can provide you with >> absolutely as I said we just need someone to spearhead to to take positive
actions and then >> Okay, >> the committee will support that. >> All right. >> Yeah. Great. I think what I'll try to do so I I is there con may I'll just ask this now I I heard I hear Fred Orloski you know I
know there's still some hope maybe of this other parcel but at least is there some consensus consensus just has to mean like you know no strong opposition and not necessarily unonyimity but is there some consensus that we might start to focus as a committee our time and
energies on exploring ing what could be done on the Deo property because it seems like there's nobody else in lately that's going to do this unless we do that. >> That is correct. There is no one else who's going that is going to do this.
seems like the most promising thing. I mean, we will at our next meeting when we have more time talk about some of the other housing production plan priorities that involve things on the planning board where I can be the champion on that side. I'd rather not deal with that
tonight because we're already kind of sort of late. But um >> I I think given we meet once a month and we all have many other things that we're doing that we should concentrate our efforts on one thing and whether that is
uh produ housing production plan work with the planning board or do property we should focus on one thing. >> Yeah. >> Because you know we've got one hourong meeting a month. We could do more if we
wanted to, but you know, we're spending 45 minutes now on this, which means we'll have no time for anything else anyway. >> Yeah, I think that's true. So, I would like to continue to pursue advancing a de uh the Deo property
project until and unless we hit some showstopper. And the other thing about the male property that developing would be great is getting >> revenue back out of it instead of having it just just sit as a non-productive
town asset whether it's payment in lie of taxes taxes if it's commercial sales tax revenue whatever >> right >> and I know Fred is proposing more or
less selling just selling it off to developers. I mean, once Fred Orloski, we just sell the Deo property, then it's whatever developers build on it. Like, >> and I have a feeling a develop given the
environmental issues, developers aren't going to pay an awful lot for that property. >> Right. >> Right. because it's going to be a lot of money just to get it >> to do the site >> site work to get it buildable,
>> right? And that may be another thing, Jerry, we need to I did see that in the Deo report that there might be some some contam um environmental contamination remediation >> of that. >> Well, there's a dead septic field there to begin with.
>> Yeah, correct. >> Have to be have to be removed >> regardless. is not reusable at this point. >> Correct. >> And and is that something like again if we needed to if we needed to, you know,
things to sweeten deals with a developer? Is that something where, you know, CPA funds could be used to help develop and clean up a site to make it attractive for a particular housing?
That would be up to CPC to determine whether or not that is a housing use. >> Okay. >> Or I wonder if there would be grant money for something like that. >> There there can be um you know a lot of the buildings that uh we dealt with at win the mill conversions all had the
lead paint and asbestous and in the capital stack to finance these deals. Um there was often state money or even city money depending on we did a lot of work in lol and uh in Lawrence where the mills were. Uh but there are pockets of
money and people that are in the business of developing in particular affordable housing they know where all the stacks are of money and so you might see 10 layers of financing involved. everything from lowincome housing tax
credits through the feds through money through um mass housing and related um development uh corporations in Massachusetts just it's >> and I think the the state is looking to encourage housing at the same time
federal funds are getting dried up >> well the the tax credits um on the federal side are going to actually I believe be strengthened and then there's I'm talking about the grant money that >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> federal program money is getting dried up, >> right? But the >> Well, I remember from um I had a tour of the um development in Sunderland with Katherine and um and they I think they had 11 different funding sources that together.
It'd be interesting to talk with that particular developer uh as well to understand how they put that whole deal together. We might be able to give you some insight. >> Okay. >> Anybody has the contacts >> and one other action is I will plan to
circulate a summary to all of you about the community housing bylaw and its implications for this particular parcel. Okay. >> Other thing keep in mind, you know, there is a housing project being
developed at the blue school right now and that developer is proposing I think 10 single family 10 units apartment units in the existing building. And I think his proposal also
included in the future an additional 10 10 units uh on the north side of that building and a new building. So uh I don't know the status of of the additional 10 but that could be a competition for available funding
>> that I heard affordable housing. I've heard nothing that the second that the new building is anywhere I taken him at this point what three or four years to get where he is. I think he was looking for historical
preservation credits which I don't think he got. >> Um but I don't recall seeing that in the records that he was ever granted but it's taken him quite a while to get where he is. I don't know that
>> is that market rate housing. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And it seems to be going through the slowest possible development process I've ever witnessed. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> I mean, even repaving roads out here,
>> right? Somebody's weekend job. >> But I've heard from other uh I guess builders in town that part of his delay is not his fault. It's getting approvals from Eversource utility company or whatever for gas and whatever and it's
been a standstill for for him to develop because of that not because of his funding or his uh progress in doing it. He just not getting the approvals to do it. >> Well, if he's looking to put gas in ever there's a moratorium on gas.
He's he's limited on some of them activities and that's I think I've heard that's why it's taken him a while to develop it. >> Well, as at this it's a private project at this point. >> Yeah. Right. >> And does not appear to have any
affordable elements. >> That's true. >> That's really out of our consideration. >> That would have been a good opportunity there. >> No, it was that was a nasty building as well. Yeah. >> Was that right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We looked into them.
>> Yeah. Well, that age, I imagine it's all lead paint and asbestous. >> Oh, yeah. >> I went we went through that building and there was lead paint as best. There were issues with that the town owned one of the two
parcels. The town owned one parcel, the school district owned the other. >> Yeah. And the septic was on a separate was on a different property from the building >> and that all had to be worked out. >> Messy.
>> It It was a messy real estate transaction before you get into the building itself. >> Okay. So, I think we're about ready to wrap up. Fred, you can probably stop sharing your screen.
Um, okay. Well, just why don't we just reconfirm our next housing committee meeting? So, we're meeting monthly. Uh, so we're going to meet again.
So, it's the second Tuesday, right? >> See if I can figure out how to stop sharing my screen. >> Yeah, it's Monday, October 13th. >> Monday, October 13th. Very good. All right. So, that'll be our next regular meeting at starting at 6 o'clock
p.m. if I get the agenda right. Um, so I think we can be done for tonight. Um, so unless anyone disagrees, maybe somebody might make a motion to adjurnn. >> Move to adjourn.
>> Motion has been made. >> Somebody should. All right. Motion's been made and seconded. Um, roll call vote. Fred Orloski, >> yes. >> Uh, Fred Baron, >> yes. >> Monerat, >> yes.
>> Grant is yes. We are adjourned until our next meeting in October. >> Good night, everyone. >> I'll be in touch. Thank you all. Have a great night. Take care. >> Thank you. >> Bye now.