Call the meeting to order 6 pm. First item on the agenda is to review the minutes from the March 31st meeting, which should have said April 8th. That was my bad. I I've stopped putting dates on there
because it never is. Our minutes do say April. I didn't catch it. My bad. I don't have any comments on the minutes. Motion to ac motion made and seconded. Since we're
all here, we don't need to do a roll call. So, all in favor on to the nuts and bolts compensation classification plan. Um hopefully everybody had a chance to go through and review and make minor
changes, major changes. So I think most of the most cases are just minor changes and I printed out um for you my review and I highlighted on the big table. Anything in red is something that I
modified based on my review of the job descriptions and what was previously valued. Um there was one position library assistant which was on this table but there actually is no library assistant position that's an old position that we don't use anymore so
that's removed al together. Oh okay. Um but otherwise this shows you the updated values. I wanted to use this as a way to kind of now compare to what your notes are to see if there's agreement or if there's further revision
discussion that you'd like to have. um that just that that'll help us focus at least on the positions and the grading for each of those jobs. And then we have to talk about the totals and how many points go to each grade level. But
let's first start on the Yeah, of course. You started with the chart he told us not to use. Thank you very much. Well, yeah, because because it could fit all on one page. Well, yeah, because it's all on one page. If you have this, then you can
Yeah. Yeah. Because they all pull into that main sheet. Oh, okay. Um, well, this I didn't look at beforehand. Um, and it may be that some of yours are the same as some of mine. How do you want to handle this? I I almost think we just start at the top and position each one
down. Although it like it might be the I had sometimes took all the library ones and kind of compared across them. um and found some things that were inconsistent, but um like yeah,
so we'll start on cemetery. Yeah, I think we'll just go in order on what you have for a list. All right. So, is there is there any way you can share that on screen or um copies are do you want to just make copies? I
didn't expect that. All right. So, cemetery commission uh sex really um the modifications I was recommending was under experience and confidentiality. Um
they require little to no experience and they have no confidentiality requirements. So, I moved both those to ones, but I kept all the others as is. They seemed appropriate based on the job description. But, I don't know if Anybody else's review of the sex
required other adjustments or suggested others? I didn't suggest any others, but I I mostly I spot checked and I didn't check those two that you mentioned already. Um I lowered the experience and under supervision given I
increased it to a two which netted it back to a 250. Which one did you raise on the cemetery? I dropped the experience from a two to a one and supervision given. I went from a one to a
two only is that um directing contractors they're they have to work with the contractor the like the company that comes in dick graves and that's the do. Yeah, that's a good point.
So we'll move supervision given that's a two which gives it five points which then with your form your number it'll be a 210. Yeah which I had a 215 but 210 I'm flat with that too. Yeah, I
don't think so. It's not that's not going to affect the It's still going to be a grade two or grade one. I'm okay with that. Yeah. Experience.
Okay. Yeah, I think agree. Okay. So, we'll now end up cemetery at 210. Yep. The next item is um oh it says substitute library because it
got reorganized once I revalued the positions or the numbers. So do we want to jump to the substitute library associate? Yes. Yeah. Did we I didn't have a pay for substitute library associate in my packet this week. Yeah. It was after library associate. I
had library associate, I had library assistants, and I had library directors. But nowhere in here did I have substitute library the substitute I had a lot of things on the library months written in the substitute looks like it's identical to
the library associated except for accountability two instead of the three. So Joyce just in terms of which makes it the same as library assistant right what I had remember there is no library assistant well okay but it was in my packet because there originally it
was part of the evaluation that the director did or so the only difference is see I had a problem with can we do the all the library ones at once um including substitute library associated one of the things I found
that was not consistent among was the experience was not consistent and um the knowledge and skills. So it says all the library jobs say for for the
knowledge, skills and education, but if you look at the job descriptions, they don't have like one of them requires a bachelor's degree. The other could be bachelor's degree or could be equivalent experience. The other one just has a list of skills. I don't think they all
add up to four. Um and but I didn't have and maybe this is same thing for substitute library associated. Um so that was one place. Um and then in experience on this rubric for I can't learn this part
for experience. It's just about how many months of related experience and none of the job descriptions require any amount of time of related experience. There's there's one that has a a degree
experience preferred is often what they say. Um, one of them says like one of the skills they want you to have is one that you would only get if you were a library assistant of some sort, worked in the library. But I thought it was really inconsistent. Um it seemed like
the library director like the experience was was a a smaller number was two but it was three for the library assistant and associate. I picked up on that. So that just seemed like they weren't consistent across uh
and they weren't consistent with the um what was written in the in order to help us kind of keep these so that we we stay a little more in line. If we let's look at the substitute library associate and library associate
because the library director or it's a whole different the library director is different. So let's take that out for a second. We're not looking at library assistant because it doesn't exist. So, we're only looking at the line items for substitute library associate and library associate. Um although it shows in black
library substitute library associate was also corrected. Um so my recommendation was adjusting knowledge training problem solving physical skills experience confidentiality occupational risk and complex complexity. All of those got
reduced and the only difference between these two positions of substitute and regular associate is just that accountability. Um so for knowledge and training it's a level two because it does not require the degree. um the problem solving. The reason why I
was recommending a three is because having full command of representative job knowledge and the ability. Um so it was reducing down because they have to have the ability but they're not going to be able to make those decisions because the library director is going to make those
decisions. Um, physical skills drop drop that down to like two. Okay, that's Yeah, because they aren't moving large items. You might have to
swing a book or two around, right? It doesn't experience the physicians. Uh, well, the weird thing, the associate is a two and the substitute was a three, right? No, no, they're
all the same. Only the accountability is different. Associates of three substitutes. Can we talk about experience just for a second to make sure we're all understanding this because to me this was confusing. The first sentence in the
as Joyce called it the rubric says the length of time usually they're typically required um to perform the essential work functions effectively under then it says it talks about previous experience and it was unclear
to me whether a position is rated based on how much previous experience you need to enter the position or the position is rated on how long and how much experience is expected to get up to speed which tell me previous experience
or experience in the position. Um what I remember from the last meeting was it's look at the job descriptions about how much I see what you're getting caught up on the length of time required to become proficient in the job. It's one and the same. It it primarily is
referred to the experience necessary to enter the position. though it there are some jobs that you may have seen that says after you become you get into the job you need to go to like the town clerk school and so that's an additional year of experience but you do it post
but it's and so it's you would add the two together you would do the basic experience plus the additional experience that's required after because I was thinking back to what Tim had been saying last time of after they finished the academy then there was you know sort of all the job
training required as well, right? So, I just want to make sure we're all thinking about this the same. It's to enter the position and then if there are specific items of training that are noted in the experience in the job description that come after then we would add that in. Thank
you. Um substitute and the library associates don't have that. Um so I had suggested a a two which was read a one year of a related experience.
Um there was a recommendation from the job description. Make sense? No. No adjustment to interactions seemed appropriate. confidentiality negligible.
I didn't know that confidentiality would likely be dropped ones, but in in essence, all employees are going to be inadvertently subject to confidential items, not as a normal
course, but they may just be brought up. So I think no exposure is non-existent. Everybody's going to have some minor exposure. So that's why I think at a minimum you could say too. Yeah. I mean records of people taking
books out. Yeah. Which is PII. So personal identifying information is considered confidential. Um so yeah there's that minor element. On the next one, I have a discrepancy with the occupational risk.
When you say the next one, you mean on the next one down occupational risk? Oh, the same line. The question I have is the director the director is a two, but the both of the associates and the were listed as
threes. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I suggested moving them two and that's what I suggest. Yeah. Great. Um, complexity of the job, I recommended moving both of them down to twos. There's standardized practices
that they have to follow, but um, it's still consist, right? They're not making those decisions. The library director would still be making, but yeah. Then okay. Um the supervision received
given in scope. Received kept them the same. I didn't touch any of these. The received is a three because they're assigned but um they'll get minimal instru instruction and monitoring but they'll still be
verified by the library director that they've done the job correctly. Yep. They have no supervision that they give. So it's a one right and as far as scope is concerned left it
at one. Yep. which is that it doesn't require um any to provide any job instruction to others or control projects. They have no oversight. To what extent are they overseeing
patrons? Well, they're not giving job instructions. Yeah. Okay. Good question. But yeah, they're not they Yeah, the patients don't Yeah. Right. In the same way that an officer might be in command
of people, that's different than a librarian helping a working with a group of Well, this is about supervision as opposed to like Right. Because when we talked about the police, we did talk about how an officer
had seen Well, that's because when you get into the into the more specifics in here yet, it has to do with Actually, I don't think it is under a supervision scope. I think that's because there's there is a set of
interactions supervision. Yeah. Then yeah. So scope leave it at one. It's fine for me. judgment and initiative any or
accountability suggested keeping those as is unless anybody has fine with that. So the difference again between substitute library associate and a library associate was on the
accountability a substitute library associate getting the accountability of two which is responsible for accuracy and thoroughess. the nature of supervision and thoroughess and review staff probably errors potential consequences include
time loss generally just a minor accountability without one whereas the standard library associate they're there more frequently so they have independently produced accurate work made work products so they have a little more of a responsibility because they
are there more dayto-day they're not a substitute that was the rale Okay, before we move um constable, I saw this in a number of the changes that I made to people moving into groups. Group
one has a pay range of 1710 to 1983. Both of these people are being paid more than that. The associate is it 20 35 2069 those ranges might change. They will
change. Yeah, we have to do this step first before we then evaluate because we're also going to have to change the number of points that go to each grade. So that because grade one is going to have a lot right now if we use a 25
point. Um we're getting there. Yeah. somewhere in there like the job market factors in there. Not not at this point but at some other point. Okay. Okay. So, conible. Yeah. Conible. I had no idea. I had the
same I just said well there's no job description. So I like why why are the physical effort equal to four and experience for like what experiences required of a
constable? It was I I just knew so little about what the job entailed. Yeah. So that's why both of those were recommended before or changed. Yeah. So my recommendation on the physical skills was to reduce it to a three.
Where is that one? experience. So, physical skills, they still physical strength, stamina, agility. They have to um they have to go out into the field. They may
have to move things. Um they do have to go to properties. They do have to serve papers. They do have to post things as necessary um such as warrants or whatnot. uh whether they're actually moving up to 50 pounds. I I think that's a we don't necessarily have to look at
that, but there's a moderate potential because they're out in the field. Um but still reducing it down to like three. Experience on the other hand doesn't require any experience. Um so it would be on the job training.
Um but um first degree they're not required to be a former police officer for Did anybody have any on any of the other criteria any other thoughts if there were any other adjustments? No, those those are the two I searched in the
question mark. I wondered about judgment and initiative that if two isn't low, but I don't really have a great understanding. Constable is getting direction as to what to do. They're not making a judgment call on any particular serving warrants. No
judgment. Okay. No, they're they're getting given the directive um of here's a warrant that has to be served. They may have to make a judgment of okay, if they're not here, what do I need to do? But there is a certain procedure that they have to follow. It's not a um uh they have to change the command
each time. There is a process. No. Yeah. Yeah. And the others all kind of cut. Okay. Transfer station attendant. Um, this one I recommended a number of
changes up and down. I think um, first one I was recommending a provision to is the physical environment. They are our at the transfer station. They're dealing with the weather, different materials that
are brought to the station. Um, I don't know that it goes to a level of five. Um, which is more in line with like a public safety officer or firefighter, but um, it's still close
enough because of the materials that they have to although they aren't primarily they're not touching a lot of it, right? They help take stuff out of the car, move bag move bags and stuff and they're operating the compactors. Yes. Yeah. In the winter. They're out there in the winter. I mean, I Yeah, in
the weather. Yeah, they're out there in all weather. Yeah, I didn't have the organization. Do you think we should leave them as a five then? I do. I think so. Just mostly because of the weather or but also I mean they are touching things. They are
sharps. Okay. Um, another one, physical skill and effort suggested it go to a four. So, circle that one. I'm inclined to read five because they
do lift and carry heavy objects. stand in the active like seven periods. Yeah, frequently. Frequently handling over from home. No, that that was where I was getting a
little says regularly. Doesn't say all the time. Well, five says frequently recurring assignment requiring heavy strenuous efforts such as lifting and carrying objects over under count. Oh, I see. I was reading four. Oh, yeah. Yeah. four could be.
Yeah, I think four says regularly 50 or more, but yeah, so that's what I just wasn't. Okay. No, I think four is actually that was one of the ones I started with. What a what are the others think though? I just have been there when the snow and
ice and carrying stuff and helping. So, but I'm not been fine with but I This one is less about the weather. This more like the physical effort to walking across an icy which grateful
and worried about the it's not likely that it's hitting the 100 pound on a regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe that's also true of police officer. Yeah. Yeah. Because that I mean that's
that one's at the the higher level. Um, but again, we'll get to those right now on the transfer. So, we're saying move it to four. Yeah. Experience. If it was a five, it would get
another four. It means 10. Experience doesn't require experience, but I suggested at least giving it a two, which is three three months to one year. That's what I I dropped it from a three to a two as well. Yeah.
Um, confidentiality. This is one where I actually set one. Um it's one of the few uh yeah the cemetery sex and the and the transfer station are the only ones that I said one in reality unless there are
hearing discussions on outside they're not discussing things about town operations confidential materials information information about people um so my suggestion was moving it to a one but certain to do it as a
two I that appropriate. Okay. Um under supervision given and supervision scope. I suggested moving both of those to one. The transition they are supervising people out there.
They are they are out there telling people like what they have to do and when they have to go. Uh much the same way the traffic cop does traffic only it's a different safety things when you're at the transfer station. I do feel like they do supervise people. It's
just not their employees. Um they're helping people put their stuff in the right place. I don't so I don't know if that I maybe it doesn't come under super the customer service dropping to a two instead of one I have a not given
probably yeah whereas it was at a three I only went to a two instead of a okay so else agree with a two 11 Yeah, I think I feel I Yeah, I guess I
still feel like they are doing something that is akin to supervising supervising which two is when you look At three, it moves it to a responsibility of more of a department head based on that last sentence. Yeah. Whereas two is has little or no
responsibility for total cost methods or personnel. It's still saying you need to have some supervising. Okay. So for supervision given then maybe that's really their safety. I think your thought there is more
covered by the number six customer service interactions with others. Correct. Yeah, but you've got to do what the attendant tells you. Contacts are with the service recipients, the general public. Yeah, I think what you're saying
to us isn't precisely why I gave supervision given the two of SC because three scope provide instructions, directions to fully paid activities and I think that's what they're doing. Can I go there? Mhm.
It was at three and I left it as a Yeah. Okay. So, will the scope at three then? I think the scope should be three. Supervision given is two.
And you you had it as a one, correct? Yeah. Bring that up as two. And then the only other that I suggested um is revising accountability. Um suggested a
fee. They're independently doing their work. Um most work is being double checked at some point. There are potential consequences that could result in monetary loss. processing important information, waste of worker time and materials, damage to
buildings or equipment, and minor personal injuries. Else any other thoughts as far as what rate to do accountability? So I had left them as a floor only because of the um handling of the money but
accountability but I don't really see where that's how that's read in accountability section. I guess when I read through number four, I also read the nature of the word means that errors and judgment techniques
would probably be difficult to detect and I thought, yeah, nobody's going to run through them. I was going to run through there and see, oh, there's a piece of glass. But I just read through four and thought, yeah, that seems right. But I had read through three. I think he he brings up a good
point. I just don't know how that they do, but they're handling money and if you're I mean the potential consequences resulting in a sense not charging for the bags or
something's not going to operate. Yeah. Should we leave it at four or move it to three cover? Yeah, I'm feeling the I was I went red four and I thought that was okay. I think three to me
is deep. Um I I could go either way. I just I just bring up that that issue of the where else in the job in this rating does handling of the money come into if
it's not an accountability. Yeah. Yeah. So you're more we'll leave it at four. Okay. What's the final score for him? 280.
280 puts them into category number two. Well, let's not worry about that yet. No, those are the points are going to change. They're all going to change. So, let's Yeah. So, stay focused on one piece, then the next piece will be
worried about the grade levels. Yeah. Um because we do have to make adjustments there. Excuse my imp. All right. Uh the admin assistants admin assistant to the other boards, not the non select board admin assistant. There were a lot of changes.
I recommended a lot of changes here. Um yeah, they were identical. I thought the other boards are which they shouldn't be. Yeah. They're just very very different. So that's the that's what I would be really interested in your um so the on the physical environment reduce
that to a one this individual doesn't even isn't even required to uh come to the building they okay work remotely from they're the one position that they can remotely is that will that always be the case though it's in the job description
all right um knowledge skill and education We require minimal education here. So I suggested a two problem solving skills and effort suggested reducing this to three. Um
they do still have to make judgment calls when you know somebody applies for or asks to be on an agenda late, how that gets moved, the timing and sequencing for those agendas uh and hearings. So they do have to make some judgment calls here. So they have to
come up with how to solve it, work with their chair, their board, though the chair is ultimately making the decision, but they're going to have to initiate that conversation with their chair. So I thought that at a minimum giving it a three physical skills one again because
they are primarily only working on the laptop or the computer and they can do that experience. um a three here and this is because we do ask that they
have some clerical experience. Um we need to know that they know how to use word and that they understand the English language that u there is some experience here just with clerical things dealing with communications with uh the residents whenever they ask to
get on an agenda. So we do require experience in the job description. So a three that's what I had three interaction with others suggested reducing it to a three they do not work with any
contractors any other civic leaders any representatives or government agencies they do work with various departments and their their boards um as well as those that are requiring in order to get on an agenda but um not to the level
for I didn't suggest changing confidentiality um because they handle a lot of applications there is a lot of confidential material that gets submitted keeping the occupational risk at two there's always a risk of getting
out of minutes um complexity suggested reducing that to a two um standardized practices, procedures and processes that they have to follow
dealing with field condition. So reducing it to a two but not down to one again because they do especially when it comes to legal ads and the time and in sequencing as far as the legal
requirements as to when something is applied and when it can go agenda uh it rises that leads to a complex level of two supervision received. I didn't suggest changing this thoughts on supervision
received given its scope. However, I suggested dropping the one. They give absolutely no supervision. Um there's not um they're not even monitoring they're not monitoring anybody. They're supervising the board.
Um and supervision scope I suggested keep uh reducing it to one because again there's nothing required in job instruction to anybody else or controlling any projects. They're not handling any of that. Their chair chairs handle that judgment and initiative suggested
reducing that to a three. Uh there's still standardized specialized procedures again because of schedules, law, legal requirements that they have to follow. Um but they're following it under the direction of the chair who's
going to remind them about dates. And then accountability um just to bring it into a board errors can result in costs if they mess up um legal ads and you have to run an
ad. It's at bar cost things like that. Um so there are monetary issues. Yeah. Anybody have any thoughts on any of those or or anything that we should further revise?
That was very helpful. Yeah, you have a better handle. Get all of that out. We've filled one of them three times since I've been here. So very Okay. Custodian. Custodian. The custodian and
library custodian. Um, both of them fall under key essentially. Well, the library custodian does not does not, but you know the possibilities. They would essentially be the same. They should be the same values. Correct. Correct.
So the only areas that I thought needed a modification is in the experience, the interaction and confidentiality experience being I went to a two instead of a three. I brought it down to a one but
happy to do it as a two if you think. So for experience that is a one means up to three months. Two means they would mean three months to a year of experience and it doesn't have to be experience to be
custom is fine. I guess I just I just knew that they did not need to be a three. Anybody else have any strong feelings about one or two? One is fine. I I just will tell you that it should. Yeah, right.
We'll do a one for now. We can all come back to it. Interactions with others. Um I suggested bringing this down to a two. They do have to interact with employees and the departments, the
offices, occasional contact with the public. Um, but yeah, I just think it needed agree. Okay. Confidentiality suggested bringing this down to a
two. They may inadvertently come upon confidential material because they are meeting in all the offices and whatnot. So although it's not a responsibility that they interact with it, they may end. Yeah.
Those are the only three that I suggested. Anybody else think that any other category in this position needed to be looked at? No. And we're saying the same thing for same both of them. Yep. I reckon
I guess the only one that I was thinking from the library is they're less likely to come across confidential information. That's true. Well, I have I have it as a two for both. So even if somebody had put in a paper
application with personal identified information on it such as bulky email addresses and it's sitting on the desk okay that could be deemed as confidential death and again it's only it's only because they inadvertently not because they're part of their partition.
Said it could also be based on books people take out. Oh like the records. Yeah. Yeah. that's printed out or something like that. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm now recreation coordinator. Vanessa
uh I don't know if other people remember this part when we at the select board level wanted this position we saw it as very much like an administrative assistant that's specializing in the red
so I compared it to the admin assistant and many of these things um I think are lower and that's good that um if I can read my notes here. If I Yeah. Compared to the administrative assistant, most of
these things are lower. Physical skills and physical environment are a few that are different. Yeah. So, um I in in the end kind of said, "Okay, but I'm certainly willing to look at what other people are." I think that's a good because that was
my that was our our thought process when we were doing it. So, I don't I don't see a lot of changes here on pets. I yeah I modified knowledge to be in line with the admin assistant other boards. Um the rec coordinator like you said
physical environment I suggested keeping it which would be higher than the admin assistant because they are weather potential and they're yeah uh problem solving I thought would be higher than the admin assistant and the reason problem solving
I gave us uh four Huh? The same rate. Um, what are they the same rate? No. No. For problem solving for admin assistant, we have it at 18 points. For
rec coordinator, I suggest they're keeping it at the 26 points. Yeah. Um, which was Yeah. which was what the administr was before. Oh, that's why you're saying yes. Yeah, that's why. But we reduced the
we so that are you okay with keeping the recordative problem solving before? Yeah, I felt that there's a little more here as far as understanding and and
coordinating some of those sports. Yes, they're not always going to engage with the commission. Right. Right. And I think they are a lot more complex problems to solve scheduling and things
of that nature. Yeah. 93. I mean, sorry. That's the same problem solving skill as the admin assistant slide board. So I was thinking about it, you know, in what was already there. That seemed
correct. Okay. What were you saying? The one that I was questioning was occupational risks. I was thinking I I don't know how the actual Well, if they're a coach, it's separate from another direct. Yeah. Yeah. That's
what that's where I wasn't sure where where this position fell on. Yeah, they're they're a coordinator as opposed to like actually doing any of the coaching or the training or the instruing. That would be a different it is possible for that same
person to volunteer to be a host, but all the coaches are volunteers. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. So for me on that position, the only things I suggested changing was the knowledge, skills, education, dropping
it to a two um based on the job description. We don't require a degree confidentiality. Um I suggested dropping it to a three. Um sorry.
Oh, sorry. Raising it to a three. Um, oh, so changing it to a three because of the fact that they are dealing with a lot of information. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, and also a rec coordinator likely is
assisting with core rejects and of coaches and whatnot, which then also breaks up other Yeah. Okay. Um then the only other items that I suggested modifying was the supervision given and supervision scope, but we
could have a discussion on that. So I suggested reducing both of those to ones. Um so the job description says that there no certification given but if we look at it in terms of are they supervising the
coaches in a way or directing coaches um we make that but I don't know yeah to be confident about that. Well, the job description
and discussion. So, recruit volunteers, but it doesn't say manage the volunteers. Um, manage the facility schedules, updates, and issues. It's the facility, not
people. Coordinate and supervise youth group youth sports programs and that is the extent of people interaction with possibility. to the extent that organizing the parents. Yeah, I
think that that's not known. Yeah, it seems like Yeah, it's not. Okay. What was it at? Uh my original it was at two. to what? Okay. Both given and scope. And so what do we feel about
then? I refer to the probably Yeah. I think yeah. Okay. So those are
both well in the one that I go back to the original. Yeah. But on his document and better be keeping track. So what's the final score then? Uh 316.
Yeah. Library assistant. We're moving. So, we'll go to assistant Trevor Collector. Right. I'll look at yours first because also in the treasur collector, assistant treasure collector, there were some
inconsistencies. But maybe what you did see numbers. That's section the rate experience before it says,
right? I know, but I don't know what 20 is in terms of it number. Like, it goes cut in half. Does that mean this is a two? Which one is that? That's everything for a moment. I have to go to this paper and find that out. Yeah, you got room for that page. Yeah, keep in front of you. Um, but which category?
Um, I'm I'm really slow. I've only gotten to experience. Okay. So, experience on the assistant subject. Okay. See it doesn't it didn't get cut past got cut
though. Okay. Sorry. Physical skills and effort. The assistant treasure director is a three but the treasure director is a two. Is it two and that? Yes. So I just noticed that. Yeah. Show which one was out of whack but it like sometimes whack. Um
the assistant is higher than does but the question is which one should one go down or one go up? Right. Yeah. Right. Because if the if the treasure lets the assistant would just be there lagging, they have to do all the running around then that would be one thing. But
I suspect that's not the case. I just So physical skills. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. They're not really other than files and boxes. Yeah, there probably should be a two on the
assistant treasur collector. So knowledge, skills, and education are two. No, we're talking physical skills. Oh, physical skill three or two. Yeah. experience. That went
down interaction with lost a lot of So interaction with others dropping it down to a three. Um five was the position requires considerable considerable persuasiveness, respectfulness,
discretion. They the assistant treasurer does not do that. Agree. Also, the assistant treasurer is not interacting on a regular basis basis with specific leaders, contractors,
um other rec recognized authorities. So, that's why some major fixing the answer questions respond to complaints from the public banks, attorneys, and other interested parties concerning tax bills. Sorry.
The job description at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. So, but that's what number that seems to fit in the three. Yeah, that's answering the because that that one number three does say contacts with service recipients, general public employees such as agencies, vendors or
banks. um more than ordinary seem to may be required to resolve complaints or deal with customers. Yeah, that is probably the supervision given
confidentiality. Yeah. Yeah, that was one of the ones I checked. down to three. Okay, I think it's pretty limited in that. Yeah, is it a one or two? I'm not sure.
Well, yeah, occasionally we had a Maybe it was temper instead where the assistant actually was the experienced person and the person we have to pull was the might have been a template
templ that one of the things I was thinking about when I was looking at this is that after being treasure collector became the assistant treasure collector but we kept her at her same rate because it seemed silly to have the person she's training
be the person who making more than two and that was I know that was like one situation. It might be something where we do it every one kind of situation but it just I thought of that when I first
the only reason on two for supervision given instead of one is may assume responsibility for the assistant fail you're talking about super given sorry Yeah.
Yeah. They do assume that's they take on the role of treasurer collector when the treasure collector is not present. So yeah, there's nobody to supervise still whereas the treasur collector does have supervisory responsibility as supervisors but as far as responsibility
of the department they take on the the department. So that's a two right now. That's why when it said three and I read the last part man who division entered narcissist that that's so we're given supervision given to two
two was three before it was a three so it went from 10 points to five or do they have direct accountability for quantitative and qualitative results of their work. You have accountability. I'm Yeah, I'm still looking at the supervision given. Oh,
supervision given. The one that you just reduced to a two. I'm just reading three. Um, no. Because the treasur collector verifies all they have to sign off on
paper. So anything the assistant does the the action pressure reviews are correct. Okay. Understood. Next one. 343. Where are we on accountability?
333. We're at 338 and you went up five. We should be that to a two. It should be three. But we also dropped physical skills and
effort to 20 points. Got it. Okay. So what does that bring us to the total 333 at this point that number doesn't I just like to keep track on this track.
He's doing a great job. Let me tell you this is impressive. All right. So the next which we probably can do together is operator labor parttime and full-time. Yep.
Um you'll see in the sheet that I recommended adjustments in knowledge confidentiality revision given and
supervision to provide scope. Uh Keith, would you say that the rules essentially are the same for all these items or should there be differences? Full time and part time
might come up with a little difference. On the part-time, the confidentiality will be well in both cases they could come down, but they're they're not always going to be the same. The experience doesn't need to be the same. the
um the experience I left the full-time as a three and the part-time as a two. Got so we'll take part time down to two on the very end. What do you think of confidentiality?
Because I also thought that I thought that was as well. I like I said, do part-time labors regularly access department information and confidential information that I I don't I just don't know enough about their job since there's
I suggested that they both go to two and that would probably be okay. is not like likely to have high confidentiality aspect. The only thing I was thinking at least the two is because they are working with the superintendent and the
senior operator specifically on any of those bids. So they are going to be aware of some of the conversations that happen and that is internal conversations. So they may be aware but they're not a signing factor not the holder of the information. Um
it's not like they're insider trading has some confident confident information. Yeah. Effective disclosure. I mean even on the part-time operator I felt the knowledge, skills and education could be one step.
um they're still need to have the same licenses but um may not have to have the same skill level I guess in terms of experience or in terms of so
you move that knowledge and skills to no on knowledge skills and education I went from four to a three and part time and left full time oh okay but but what I was hearing you say was more like they don't have to have as much experience or a skill level that you might get which
is very they have to have the licenses and the training and all of that still needed the licenses. Correct. Yeah. Full time went up by 15 points and the part-time goes down to
additional. What did you have four and three? I left the full-time at full under under knowledge, skills and education. I left the full time as a four, which is 60 points. So up 15 from my Oh, from his trying to keep
track and then he left and from his sheet I left the the part time. So is are the part-time um operators typically someone who has less experience or are they just someone
who's not working full time? They're not certainly weren't working full-time. Um, historically, it's been a lower hourly rate. The select board made an exception this past time, but that employee that there for many years offered to stay on
board until a new employee was hired. Yeah. And was kept at that same rate. Yeah. Historically, that won't always be the case. Yeah. I was remembering also from and maybe from earlier that um I can't get part-time people unless I pay them
the same right as the full-time people but that was probably a personnel committee meeting many years ago before we had done something like this. It's yeah I think we're getting into a rate discussion which we probably should wait until we get there. Well, we we want to finish
looking at the evaluations. Okay. So, between the part-time and the full-time, you felt that there should be those differences in the knowledge and the experience, but otherwise they should be in line with one another. Yes.
Okay. So if that's true and we do that then the part time is out of 341 and the full out 366 we never have to do this again hopefully. That's a lifting physician. So, is a backup operator like a rank
above uh an operator labor? A backup operator in the water department. So, what do they do? They they are the backup of a water super assistant. So, I was comparing. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. What's next? So backup operator is the next one. Um in my evaluation I suggested making
adjustments to the knowledge, skills, experience, confidentiality, complexity, supervision given and supervision skill. What about even judgment initiative? I went to a three and that
okay let's see judgment and I mean you're you're probably right because they're not setting policies and procedures they're following policies and procedures. It's very limited on what? Yeah, it's basically only in the absence. Yeah.
Of so judgment to three. Any other line items on the back of operator? So that would put it at 3 336 336. Okay, next up, the community development administrator. Um, I had a new
recommended changes here. Problem solving and skills adjust that set to a four, experience to a three, interactions with others to a four, and supervision skills would um so problem solving goes down from
five to something else. Yeah. Y you just read them all. I did but I could I can repeat it if you want. Yes, please. Oh, yeah. So, problem solving was dropped to a four, experience to a three,
interactions with others to a four, and then supervision scope to a three. Happy to answer any other questions. Yeah. What's your reasoning on dropping knowledge and problem solving and skills
from the five to four? Sure. Um so the the fifth degree would be that they require advanced training experience and understanding and complex knowledge. Ours is an entry level. Um they are not the town planner. They are not the
engineer. Um so they have to have a strong understanding of planning and zoning. Um but certainly not the advanced training. We don't require a degree or master's degree. Um so that's why the problem solving is more in line
with a four also because they don't make decision. The planning board and the zoning board is making the decision. Okay. They're providing some uh research to the boards. Yeah, that seems that was one of the
ones I served. Um, can we talk about the interaction with customers? You reduce that one to the I'm sorry. Yep. Uh thought on that was doesn't the
rule shouldn't the role be to deal with persuasiveness, resourcefulness, discretion, negotiating to impact the decision of the community? You're shaking your head. The CDA doesn't do that. Yeah. They're they're that's what the planning board, the zoning board will do. Got it. But they're not they're
not the ones that are not driving and they're not making any decisions. The building inspector decides the permit. the planning board decides to grant ANR the special are granted by the CPA. So they don't have that need to do those negotiations, they aren't part of the
negotiation. Thank you for clarif and the sort of the grant writing and grant followup stuff. Um think because I'm more familiar with that position in in kind of that that side of it. Um it falls under mine and the
select board's direction. Thank you. SP sounds nice. I think you're probably on there. Any other items that we want to clark on this one? That is now
a 56. Yes. Next will be the assistant town. While I'm thinking of it, in the job description, take out the word tops field. What? Yes, they read the homework. The job
description they has the word tops field top. That's funny. Oops. Yeah, this and what's funny is this job description is from 2023. I could see it's written the the
structure of it is different. It is. Oh, yeah. You're right. Topsfield is an equal opportunity employer. I saw that. I know people have used other documents. So that probably is what happened here when that was approved.
Um, wait a second. Didn't this committee approve this? I don't think that will be approved. I'm straightening a problem before I leave. Thank you. A can of worms. Yeah. Personnel policy was policy that
was last year. I think no it wasn't local. Was it Berlin? Was not local. Burlington. No something. Um the 10 clerk one. The one I circled
was confidentiality because the assistant 10 clerk is a higher number than the 10 clerk. And I don't know. I don't know that they should be different. Um my suspicion is they should both be Yeah, I know one because I thought that was too
loud. Yeah. Um and it was not consistent. Great. So I know we're looking at assistant templ. Yeah. But confidentiality was four here and confidentiality is three. Why is it lower? Doesn't don't they both handle?
Yeah. in my recommended adjustments how quick we're going to get to it is like so you're saying okay because they do have to deal with a lot of personal exactly I thought the same thing that it should at least go up to four
but um knowledge and skills the only adjustments were under knowledge and skills complexity supervision received given judgment and accountability. In the end, it puts the assistant town clerk at the same point
as the community development administrator. Yep. Um somehow just feels really tough. I mean, I looked at a different a few of those like the judgment and initiative. I wrote the word elections next to the
number five that was there. If only I knew what the actual question was then because in judgment and initiative but like for the assistant temporary the difference would be adjusted down to
four adjusted down to four is what you um there are still supporting those type of things but the this is saying that they're required comprehensive knowledge and activities considerable judgment of work independent and to formulate decisions
regarding policies, operations, plans for might be a little high, but um they do act in place of the town clerk. So if the town clerk is not let's say for a town meeting, then the assistant town clerk does have to make some judgment
and then uh take initiative, right? And so I was reading like five. It seemed it did seem a little bit high, but then I wrote elections because sometimes they might be in charge of an
election. That was the that was and maybe that's why I put dot dot dot because it wasn't that wasn't the supervision are given. Um the election workers are being
suppressed. Yeah. So supervising given though would have a and I thought three what's there but you lowered it supervision given I gave a two um because the job description shows
that they support the um supervision of those election workers but the supervision is still under the counter but they are supporting the counter workers And that's why like in two it says may assume relief responsibility for a
supervisor. So again when the town's not there any steps in as the town supervisor living. Okay. Any other? Are we good with the
recommended adjustments? Thank you. Okay, moving on. Doing both of Jess's positions back to back. Get it. Now, the admin
assistant to the select board. I felt that the evaluation here was pretty tight. The only adjustment was the knowledge, skills, and education. Um, and my recommendation here was adjusting that to a two based on the job
description. Uh, we don't require a bachelor's degree. We do require um a high school education with a recommendation for associates degree. Um, but that was the only thing that I suggested. But again, we could further
adjust to Oh, okay. It's just not red. Oh, is it not? All right. See, hope it's not. I'm overly reliant on the color code clearly. Oh, I colored the wrong column. That's why I colored complexity. I was trying
to Yeah, complexity. Yeah, that was Oh, okay. So, that was that was same. Yeah. The interaction with others with them. Any other thoughts on police officer last time. Yep. So, I
just highlighted what we updated in on both the police officer positions. Okay. So, we had adjusted for the part-time police officer. We adjusted that. Uh, knowledge adjusted that to a four.
Interactions with others, we increased that to a five. Correct. Supervision given, we adjusted that to a two. Those were the three line items that we adjusted last time. And so, I just wanted to make sure you saw what items we had changed. Yeah. That
traction. Yeah. 386 386 J question Pete I could just make an an argument as far as experience goes um over three over three months including
up to one year for related experience we're looking at almost a year before they can work so I know it goes to the knowledge and training as well but if you look under experience basic knowledge training and education is part of the experience
So to have them at the lowest level of experience to get in, be able to work as a police officer. I I still just think that's that's low in the sense of
experience to get in the door. What's that? That's experience to get in the door. But they can't work as a police officer until they have almost a year. But we're going to be paying them for that either, right? Yeah. Okay. So that's right. So that's a that's if they
don't go to the academy, then they can't be hired. So there's a lot of those things that come into play. To Jim's point, similar to Susan's earlier question, what experience do they have to come in to the role with? Also, if
there's a required training post okay post employment like they like I mentioned school or whatnot we would we can add that in to the total experience. Okay. No, I thought I I thought we had made the opposite decision last time we talked about that and that's why this
went went down to it was that so sorry about that. I No, no. I mean, this is the first time now we're talking about it as we go through this experience because this is the first time that we're hitting a position that has postemployment training requirement. If we go to No, I mean at the last
meeting we went through we went through these positions. Oh, you're No, you're right. You're right. And and No, no, no. I just meant um versus tonight when we first explained the experience thing with student had asked question but we had yeah I was still basing it on what
we how we talked about last yeah so I guess discussion then if we go to a two on the experience it up five points which would make it a 390 instead of 386 I think we should you know include at a time which means it goes up
we'll have to do it for both part time and fulltime Yeah, full time should be minimum for both time. Yeah, it's it's the very same requirement, right? It's a post standard. They have the exact same thing
in addition to psychological exams, physical evaluations, all the other stuff that goes along with just getting higher as well. So they, you know, as far as physical skills or So it's it's a 10 for both. I don't think I'm as a two or a 10
for both, but I'm at a two. Okay. Yeah. No, they're at a one. Move it to a two. 391 and 426. 391. They missed 426. We litigated this. We did. We did.
take it to a different conclusion. So I'm not having another meeting on this. No, we're talking about that. I think we're at a good place with that. I for me the previous discussion helped me understand it better to right. I still don't know which one is really
right. So that's well we've certainly because I think like how would somebody reading this and coming up with you know in the starting would know except it's a job description. with the job description. That's true for all of these positions. Everything
all the details are in the job description. Certainly. And is that is that in the description on the officers? I I imagine it might be. If not, it should be
go back to senior regular. So, just for example, let's see. Um, under part-time police officer, high school diploma or equivalent must meet minimum requirements of the mass criminal
justice training council for the part-time police officers must pass semiannual handgun qualification current first responder first aid and basic rest valid uh driver's license. Excellent efficient um non-tobacco product
user. These don't help. Um successful annual participation drug testing program. Uh knowledge of law enforcement principle procedures, techniques and equipment is ability to learn applicable that's
ability to learn ability to maintain good working relationships and experience with their community policing. Yeah. So, so when it says um must meet minimum requirements of Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Council for part-time police officers,
is that the academy? Yeah, that's a reason. So then what's the training that's after that? Is that also require is that it's required by the department by the town, right? So that's an additional 350, but three months up to
up to a year is category 2, but that's not anywhere in the job description. But that six months academy is the six months academy is I agree that but the additional so yeah so that's why I'm looking at just up to a year that just gets into
it's up to I I agree but that should just maybe be in the job description really a requirement that they've already expectation that somewhere like the town whatever yeah they don't need to be hired right Yeah, the town clerk
doesn't need any to be elected and they're right. No, I'm just I'm just saying but maybe the town clerk's job description. It says they have to do that training and here it doesn't say they have to do that training. What's
that? Can we put that on future agenda? Yeah. Any revisions to job descriptions have to come from the department head? Oh, okay. So the Armanet does need to if you have if you have things that you're actually description then we need to put
this job description looks like it's 202 yeah it's it's old and we there's now with post and police reform a lot of those things have changed so it's on your plate Tim absolutely
that's why I'm bringing it up because where things are at Thank you right Okay. So, senior operator, senior operator, we are we moving on I I believe we're a good unless you want to talk a little more. I know last time we
only covered five things because operator this is highway department. Yep. All right. Okay. All operators are highway except for that one backup operator. Right. And I did this one I compared a backup
operator think backup operator. So a senior operator is essentially one is a step between the supervis or superintendent and the right part. Okay. Yeah.
So I made three recommended changes to experience interactions and confidentiality. Sorry not those down by one. So at the king I interaction with others he went then my interactions went up.
He went from a three to a four on interaction. So the reason was um they're likely going to be working with the contractors or you can correct me if I'm wrong. They're like they're working with the contractors and still leading the operator laborers. Yes.
in my absence. Correct. Yeah. So, and then they maybe guess there's a question there because it does say like may serve as the spokesperson for the department in yourstead. Um I I could go back and forth. It could
be a three. I looked to the property had I had left experience at four, but you got it down to three. Oh, experience. Yeah, you got experience down to three. I did. That
was based on the job description. Um, the job description said a high school diploma, one to two years of experience in public works, construction or maintenance, blah blah blah. So it says
one to two years experience. Um I Okay. All right. confidentiality. I put it at it too as because they may be part of the conversations but they're not a deciding
factor. still the superintendent that yeah the only other interaction four. Yeah. Okay. So that read four. Okay.
Spatul. Okay. I think so. So now the fulltime peace officer. Yeah, you already asked. The one thing I need to adjust is or did I already experience?
I adjusted it to a two. 426. 426. Yeah. Yes. 426. Okay. director physical skills and effort has to be yeah I adjusted or I suggested adjusting
physical skills and effort experience supervision scope and judgment initiative um physical skills and effort that's three only because if they're doing a programming
unit physical skills at different was already in 3 and 30. Oh, it was well on the on the print out I had last night. Oh, 10:30.
Damn it. Where's that library? Library. No, I'm on a fine line. So, in a three, they have to independently develop and successfully apply problem solutions. Um, they have the work requirements may vary and could
be unpredictable, require the ability to develop alternative ways to successfully completing the important work within externally imposed constraints. The library director is handling the operation of that building and any change in what might happen environmentally.
patron wise they have to make judgment calls. So that's why I felt like there is some additional problem solving recognition that needed to be applied here. I just suggested going to a three instead of three. You're on number
three. Physical skills and effort. I was reading the wrong. Yeah, I was like where is that physical skills suggested three? Yes, this is
sorry. This is about actual um stuff within the building. She does if she is moving around boxes of books. There might be carts. I don't know. I had a slight
feeling that there was a little more effort that the library director had, but we could keep it at two. Well, is this the one? I moved it to a three. I I moved it to a three because
originally we had the associates as a three, but then we've dropped them to a two. Yes, I think it's a two. So, so we get back to a two. Job is largely mental rather than
physical. Yes. Yeah, you're right. Some of those John Lar things are pretty heavy, but I don't think 50. I agree.
Okay. So, physical skills. So experience I adjusted to a three one to three years of experience. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that was one of the ones I noticed that correlates to the job
description. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I thought on these the all the the library ones they were not very specific about how much because I think on the when I went I can see why they did two on the
experience because um it's the only post that specifies something around two years experience when I looked at the job description you're talking about the job description for the other positions for us. We're were very unspe like you didn't need any
experience. Yeah, literally for those and this one actually was the only one that said anything near the library director job description. Um bachelor is required. So does that mean four years of experience? No. This
is certificate uh considerable knowledge at least two years of relevant experience required. So it's the only one that had a number, right? And it's the two, not the three, right? Two years doesn't get us into that next bucket. So
I don't think that's right. That Sorry, confused where you're going. Well, so where's going with this is on um experience is number five. Okay. is in
one to three. It's one to three years. Okay. Yeah, good. But maybe I'm just thread my note one to two years does fall into number three. Correct. Okay. Sorry, I was confused. Thank you for putting up with the three. Yes, I'm good. So, this should have been great.
Okay. The other categories I suggested changing were the supervision scope and the judgment initiative, moving those to four supervision scope. I was saying a four because she does the library
library director does have to develop job and task requirements. um is responsible for the completion of those tasks within the building but does not rise till a five which involves programs job requirements operational goals that's the order of the trustees the
trustees does that so I library director is four I think those are both accurate well programs like the programs of like activities because that's the library I think they still have to be approved by the trustee yeah and I think they needed
different ways of have actual like things like that. The in here when they talk about photos I'm not sure that's what they're Yeah. Yeah. They the library director need to
propose that way by sense the trustees follow and they and they do they have lifting in terms of actually interacting with people making them happen but it's the no the uh the director but the you're saying the trustees are the ones approving that's the difference
and judgment of four agree any Other discussion on the library director. This would go to 419. 419.
Okay. That takes in account of the experience going up from two to three. Yep. A lot of adjustments here. The first one suggested changing the knowledge to a
three. If you looked at the job description, you'll notice that it is an elected position and it acknowledges that with an elected position, we cannot require experience or knowledge. But the description does say however it is highly recommended and it does give a
recommendation as far as what knowledge and experience should be provided. So based on that job description um the knowledge I was suggesting at a three because it required it recommended a high school diploma at a
minimum which is a three. And if we were to ever to turn this to an injeded position, we wouldn't have to we would fall in line. We would just have to edit that job description out, but it would still give us those basing recommendations. We could now make up
the requirements. Okay. Um problem solving adjusted this to five. Um the reason was requires advanced training experience understanding of complex body of knowledge intellectual discipline
including the ability to independently evaluate the information the events require strong interpersonal and communication skills. Town workers responsible for administering or the overseeing the general bylaws. They look over a lot of mass general law, have to
apply that national law to our bylaws. They are the front face really for the the town. Um, and they have to make a lot of judgment calls and call up on the spot. Agree. Yes. I have
experience. I suggested changing that to a three again based on the job description recommendation of I believe it was three years of experience of municipal experience. Um so that would fall in line with the third degree
and again being elected it may result in zero. Right. Correct. Yeah. We can't control that. We can't control that. No. No. But if we're going off what the recommended is interaction with
others have it as a six our again our town clerk is the one that gets contacted by representatives governor they're the they're actually the opposite for the the town All right.
They do have to appeal with a lot of agencies. So, yeah, I suggested six. Confidentiality should be that's got I suggested a four. I think a four is what I have. Yeah, they do handle a lot
of confidential material, but I wouldn't put it to the level of the full and complete access to all confidential material. um complexity adjusting that with the assignments are involve evaluation
interpretation of factors. They look at those um legal requirements general law and mass general law. They have to evaluate facts and data. They're dealing with the poll, the
elections. I felt the complexity and the varying elements that they have to deal with fell into what I'm just feeling every time I go in there and whenever I've gone to ask a question about anything that seems like it ought to be simple, it just turns out
to be so much more complicated and arcane. Yeah. So I was okay with the uh complexity level that was there four but um like it's not I mean it's just like
stupid complex because laws are stupid complex right um it's not for example again stupid complex day our day-to-day activities
Right. Like it's it's complicated, right? And like with the voting like you couldn't you had to do the sheet and they had to do the and and then you add up the and then you and it's like nothing was simple or straightforward. Um you know
in various asking questions about running for office and does this count as a this or that. There's just like always more stuff and more detail. um it maybe isn't studying trends in the field
for application assessing services and so so maybe it's just that the third the third degree might be the right place to put it but I just want to express my sympathy for the level of complexity that there is in the
rules that the clerk has to follow and is there any other members on that I don't feel that all sort of feel falls under interpretation factors and conditions or unusual circumstances as aggravating as it may be.
I don't know if it's in the job description, but assessment services are recommending improvements and devising new techniques for application of the work seems to be something that the job does. Looking at the better ways to do things, which is under
four. Does the town court actually make modifications to workflow? natural workflow and the procedures that they're following. It's based on the legal requirements. Um there might be some nuance to how they can go about it,
but they don't have the ability to independently make modifications process not necessarily because they are following master law. They're following to achieve what is needed. So correct, it's defined for them. It's they have to
look up every definition and all of those procedures, but it is for them. Yeah. I mean, it might it might be that that the thing I'm getting at is really somewhere else in So, what do we feel? Three or four?
Three. Three. I can move that. Okay. Complexity. Well, that's what I regard complexity. It's been a long couple of hours, but okay, we'll be out of here in 10 minutes. Oh, yeah. Super scope. Just
kidding. Just kidding. Scope. Supervision scope. I suggested a five. I don't know where it was before. What was that for? Was that for assigns objectives projects manages the
complete within a budgetary constraints responsible for department and municipalwide accomplishments and budgets. That one a little wonky. Regularly evaluates employees and/or performance of other supervisors. I mean they don't evaluate
other supervisors but they do evaluate employees and volunteers. um they are handling budget constraints both within their budget but there were revolving accounts as well um that's true for most of the department
heads there was some reason why I kind of felt like it was more of a five but I'd be happy to keep it at a four well developed the dog of the year program I think I hope my dog wins. I don't have a dog and I'm excited about
the dog again. She gets license number one. That'd be pretty cool. We sort of gave a little in on leave. Okay. So, scope will be five. Okay. Any
other adjustments in this position? This remains unchanged. 474. Okay. Next up is the town in um you changes
here. Knowledge and skills. I suggested it be a four. Yeah. Was that a five? The reason being we only require a bachelor degree. We don't require a master's. I'm not sure why they gave it
a five. Um and it actually falls in line directly with the definition of four which is specialized field of accounting finance. It's spec. Yeah. specify. So my recommendation is that be a full measure
based on experience. Um I adjusted that to a four. That's because our job description says five years. of uh experience in accounting and financial management. Oh,
I see. So I was on the cusp there including Yeah. Okay. So that's why I was saying forward on experience. Yeah. It wasn't 7 to 10 for sure. No.
Where they came up? I don't know that we actually I don't think we had a job description developer county when they were doing this evaluation because we didn't approve this until March. So they were probably working off of other descriptions. Um supervision
given adjusting that down to a two. Um there is no other staff um but they are monitoring how other departments are using the monies but they're not necessarily supervising them. Um so they
don't have the responsibility of those costs and methods and personnel but they are still monitoring it. So I felt it too was appropriate. supervision scope adjusting that to a three.
Um regularly reviews the job performance tasks essentially what's happening in those other departments on a monetary basis. Um may develop work requirements and responsibility assure job and projects
are complete. It's still just the department of one um currently. Um so I felt scope was a three only because the town does have some heavier responsibility in the oversight as a sec as a check and balance to those
department uh spends and anytime subtitle goes in for a bill of payment. Yeah. It seems like four is different than three, right? on. Yeah.
Are we good for three then? Yes. Judgment and initiative. A six. Six. Okay. That's really high. Yeah. They do have a major monetary role
for the town. Lot can go. Yeah. They still fall under my boards direction. So it doesn't quite hit the seven but major functional segment is the really is the word that puts it into the next.
Yeah. And then accountability similarly not quite to the level of seven but certainly a six because they their potential errors exist. We could have an immediate and long-term adverse effect on the previous
operations content accountability. Um any other busy any other thoughts or adjustments that we should make on that position? 487. Yep. Agree.
Superintendent. Only a few adjustments here. Um, knowledge and skill. Reducing that to a three. Our job description shows that they don't require
high school graduation and at least one year of experience. So, um based on a high school graduation or a high school diploma, that's a three. So, I suggested adjusting that to a three. Similarly, adjusting experience to a two
because one year of experience for super problem solving and skills on the other hand, I suggested a six. Yeah. Um so the direct responsibility and the fact that they have to make some
immediate judgment calls when there is a problem with the water system. It is not something that they can sit on. Um then the only other adjustment I was suggesting is under supervision received to a six reason being that they
are essentially working independently. um may receive some general guidance from their commissioners but they're expected to be self-directing. Yeah. Periodic progress reports may be given but otherwise review is given only or
primarily to the end results. So really the superintendent is responsible for working independently going back to the commissioners when there is a need and In supervision payment though, I would say it drops to a degree. You
think it's your top? The only reason I say that is there's no it's it's day when we talk about the backup operator. There's the water superintendent by by that person is by themselves all day long not directing anyone. Okay.
They don't work. The backup operator never is there with them. only when they're that person only works I believe is when they're not around maybe a little overlap but very it's not on a regular basis. Okay.
Well, I was reading number four. Maybe I was reading it differently. um direction control monitoring of a miniature division, highly technical section, multiple operating division or
department too. So I thought it was a highly technical section that this person's in charge of. Now they're not in charge of other people, but they are Are you on number 11? How about
supervision given number? Yes. Includes responsibility for service delivery results, personnel action, workforce and job planning, budget administration and cost control. So they don't have any
people but they are has responsibility. the responsibility for the service delivery results and the budget administration cost control and planning their own the commissioner responsibility of the budget.
Oh. Um I don't know. Yeah, in the end all of us have to report to our boards. That's the the end cost control. Okay. I could go back if I want three or
four. Yeah. I uh see when I read the forward that sounded right and the words I was that were popping out was the highly technical um the service delivery results. I mean people don't not going to complain to the commissioners to to
the water superintendent. Um but I could be wrong on that. It could be that they ought to complain to the commissioners not to the superintendent. I'm leaning with Joyce towards filler because the last line in three is made out to the
department head during absences. Meaning the assumption is that they are not acting as as the head. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay. So, leave it at a four. Okay. Any other discussion on the super stays at
57 total treasure treasure? suggesting a few adjustments here knowledge. Again, this points back to the job description. Um, treasure collector, associates degree is the
requirement. So that's why I suggested reducing or making this a three problem solving adjusting that to a five that is because the treasure collector is also doing investments
u and so they're making subject calls they're having to problem solve um they have to have that advanced training and experience with treasury and collections evaluating new information events or circumstances that could have
a monetary effect on our accounts because the treasurer does actually handle our bank accounts. uh they do have to have a strong interpersonal communication school because they are interacting with a lot of outside entities as well as
employed. Um so that's why I felt it was a five. Great. Y experience I suggested changing that to a four and that's because in the job description we require three to five years experience. It's in line with the
job description. And do we don't have any other training that be required after that? Um, not job description. Um, we encourage certification through the mass municipal collector and treasurer
program, but it's not interactions with others suggested change that to a six. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. Um, supervision given a four.
I agree with that. That was just suggestion I had. Okay. Judgment and initiative a six. Again, similarly accountant significant. They have to make a lot of judgment calls on monetary aid and
accountability. Again, same thing saying that they're controlling our accounts could have potential long-term adverse effects. Any other can we change 11 supervision given to four to four for
20 points? And but a few others went up like six went up, 13 went up, 14 went up, two, three went up. So it should be 54 54. Okay. Okay.
Bioche recommendations here. Knowledge I suggested at a four. Right. That's what I meant to Okay. Anybody Everybody else okay with that? Yeah.
Adjusting experience to a five. Yes. Good. Is that what that that's consistent with the new job description? With the job description, correct? We don't have a good one, but yes, I feel like we should uh Yeah, because our experience requires a
minimum of six years of firefighting experience. Okay. Yep. And then supervision received suggested updating that to a six. They're primarily acting independent. Yeah. Yeah.
Good. Any other adjustments on this one? Okay. Highway and building super a bunch of adjustments here. Um, on interactions, I felt that
it should be at a six based on the newly updated job description. um because our highway and building is dealing with a lot of other agencies primarily passed on um
D, DCR, um they also have to deal with building inspection and um uh the inspectional services from the state because of the buildings
oversight. any any thoughts to your end role. Do you feel six is appropriate? I think so. Um yeah, definitely confidentiality. I recommended going to a for that
essentially has a high level of confidential information but not necessarily the full access to all the don't have. Yeah. uh supervision received and occupational risk. Oh, do you want to look at that one? Sorry. Only reason I say that it's
a four, but all the other operators are fives. Yeah. Adjust that to a five. Yeah. And it's this, you know, you're working side by side. It's most of the time. So, yeah. So bus
findings. Okay. All right. So occupational risk um good on complexity. Yes. Supervision received suggested six. Um which is the highest level
because they do act pretty independently. Yep. supervision given five. Department and the only reason why not a six is because that one is the person
who takes on the responsibility of the entire municipality of the CEO which is the select board is absent. So I think he's like third in line or fourth in line after the police chief. Um I don't know if we have a succession
plan in place. So a five on given. Yeah. Yep. Uh supervision scope suggested that be a five. Yeah, I think that seems Yeah, it's fine. Good. And then the only other
adjustment was accountability. Um, at a six, similar to the county account treasurer, significant service impacts such our transportation system. Um, but even the buildings, our town
buildings, I felt that it it be a six. Do you feel that's appropriate? type suit. And just a question on that point on supervision scope comparing it to the fire. We already passed that one. No,
we don't go backwards. Yeah. What's your question? for we had fire chief one step down from the for highway and building superintendent below the scope supervision scope should
those all be 16 points wait are you suggesting increasing the fire chief or reducing the highway increasing fire okay so you're bringing us to another already. Come on, Terry. Do we feel that the two positions should be at
a five? Fire chief highway and chief of police. I'm suggesting in that section would all be the same ranking. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, fire chief. Yeah. is responsible for
department or municipal line communications and budgets. Yes, that's what that fire chief should be. It's five. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, we'll adjust the fire chief's supervisor.
Thank you for indulging. I didn't catch him until we went to the next one. I know we're not supposed to compare, but sometimes it really helps to see another one because oh yeah, that feel that's the same like an apartment is
bigger than that's in a different part of supervision, right? It's our new total for 594. Thank you. So back on highway and superb, highway and building superb. Any other adjustments?
No. Okay. So, a 609. Now, beach chief. Oh, we did that already. We did, but I I think I double checked some of the job
description items. Okay. Oh, so what's noted red here is what we changed last time. What we changed last time, but also what I may have adjusted to. Um because I went through the job description just to double check. So knowledge. So the adjustments are on
knowledge, skills and education before. My only question was on accountability. Accountability should be higher. Oh yeah, absolutely. I don't dare ask giving up fire chief.
Please let me catch the police. Should be at least a six on accountability. Correct. Thank you. Any other other than that? Any others that you I just looking through the
physical we talked about last time. Um like the ones that are red here. I don't remember which of those are ones we discussed last time. I don't remember discussing the music part time and full time. Oh, okay.
Our first see I was just making that uparently. My one argument would be physical skills is same requirement as the actual parttime and full-time police officers.
And I know it's I know it's a there's some office duties in there as well, but I still have to lift the same people. We still have to chase the same people. We still have to do the same thing. It should be at a 50 point administrative position. What
was uh number four? It was a five on the sheet. I took yesterday back to a five. I have it. Well, that would make its total 637. Okay.
Yeah. I I hate to be that one. No, you already got the highest number. No, it's not it's not the police chief one. It's just going back to the problem solving for the the officers. They're at the 20. I
just been I've been listening to your discussions about problem solvings with other positions and I don't I don't think based on all the discussions you've had it seems like police officers fit into the next category of for problem solving skills because we they
do require advanced training in use of force and deescalation there's advanced training for that so I think it falls more under category five and four but that's that's the session. You mean point level five? Yes.
Versus four. I think this is one we did discuss a lot though. Um and the advanced training I took that to be like the master's degrees. We didn't we didn't discuss problem solving because I I read line under that
we discussed and that wasn't one of them. Okay. So, the chief is bringing us back to the parttime and full-time police officer. Get it back. Thank God. Problem solving. We're not going back anymore. But problem solving, the question is
whether these two positions should be moved from a four to a five. Yes. including the ability to specifically evaluate information, events or circumstances, synthesize this information, evaluate alternative outcomes, apply and direct successful
application resources. That feels right. But for so I would not agree with increasing it, increasing it would put it in line with the same problem solving points that we give to department heads.
Oh, give them the same which doesn't make sense. Looking looking at the problems that we're solving, that's the issue that I have. You're solving individuals problems that could have lifelong impacts on their their well-being. It's
not it's not just making a decision about a budget item or you know something like that. I mean these are we are professional problem solvers. This is what we do. It is a different type but in the fourth degree it says the ability to successfully apply complex
concepts from a body of knowledge or a specific discipline. So you're talking about specific kinds of training. So that that is in the fourth degree but that's not requiring the training is it requires strong understanding. Fifth
degree requires what you're experience. What you're taking is the problem solving and you're applying it to what the end result is, which is more on the accountability and what the end result has the impact on but based on the
decision made. If you move them into five, then it's like they're all department heads. Yeah. I don't see that. That's you're equating it in a in a they're not you're trying to move it
where it's it's not apples to apples. I agree. It's not the job is apples to apples, right? can't I mean it's not apple but you can't say that their problem solving with it that could have the impact a long-term implication on
that person isn't the same as what was your example that you used as the minimus of the the person or the role that you were applying to non-EP department heads
yeah their decision making still has long-term implications. Maybe not an individual, but it still has long Everybody has long-term implications. Yeah. Right. Well, I agree. I agree. But from a from a police officer's perspective, they they're the only ones
that require advanced training and dealing with problem solving skills. They have advanced levels of training in the academy to become police officers. So, you're saying that all of these others don't have problem solving
training in their education? I I don't I don't know of any, but I don't know all their training. I'm just saying police officers do require advanced levels of training. I have problem solving training and I just teach physics. I think an operator laborer has problem solving training that they have as well
in regards to their field operation too. Um, I think a town or assistant town clerk had problem solving training. It may not be the same, but it is still they're all getting problem solving training. I'm not sure. Advanced training is what Yeah, I think I feel
like advanced training is something else. Would that because then when I It's not a one-hour class on I know. I I understand. Would that already be picked up? I'm sorry. I feel like it's picked up on number four already. I think that
also in number two knowledge skills and education outside of the town administrator. They're at the same level as fire chief, chief of police, superintendent. We already went on that. They're only the they're the only ones that aren't at
that top tier management level that has to have the extra knowledge. So I I think it is also that covers that that I I think so. Okay. I think so because it it's twice
the level of some of the others other positions which it should right. It needs to be recognized there. Just making the argument. That's all. I think your your argument is well
represented in some of the other other categories. because you're right at the top. The only one that's higher than the part-time and full-time police is the town administr that knowledge base that needs to happen.
Knowledge, training, and education. Yeah. So, are we are we good on problem solving on the part-time full-time police officers? Otherwise department. Okay. So we'll move ourselves back to
police chief. The only change was under. I'm sorry. Accountability. So that's at 637. 637. um physical
skill. Yeah. Oh, we moved it back. Which puts it at a 637? 637. Yeah. Any other discussion on the police chief?
Then the last one is the TA on the sheet we had there is an error on experience where it had if you look at their break you go to the
sign fact it's three is a determin experience is a three is a is a 20 is 20 that's what it says on this team somehow I thought it I thought three was a 30
okay it's all set so the only changes are interaction with others to a six confidentiality to a five and supervision received to a six.
I had also questioning problems. Sorry, what? Whether problem solving should be a service um reading in the description with all that.
The only reason I didn't suggest going into there is Wait, which one you said? problem solving number three. It's at a five already. Right now it's at a five. She was I was questioning questioning
whether it should be at six. We don't have a six problem. Oh yeah. You can actually go to the reason that the town administrator in general is a
um general knowledge of a lot but a master of nothing. And so it doesn't necessarily have highly developed knowledge of all of the departments. it relies on the department the department heads to have that highly developed knowledge within
their departments to then provide direction. So that's why I didn't feel that it really rose to six. As I said I wasn't pushing for it. and I had that similar question of supervision given um why
seven he can't like do six and a half plans overall operation municipality conforming to the general objectives to satisfy the governing body. So you get your directives
from board elected people and um make everything else happen. I mean you're kind of more or less you're supervising all departments. The only reason is I don't supervise the water department, the board of assessors, and
the library. They act under separately elected bodies. Um, okay. Library of policy, but not under and it's uh and Okay. So it's just because those
like so we would never we would never have a town administrator at seven degree unless you're reorganized. Well you're seven black belt in my opinion reorganized but under the current organization we would never have a 427 point spread.
Yeah. Yeah. And so that's that feels right. And where did that end land in the end? The demon 624. No change. So sheep is the high at
637 and low is at 210. So what we have now is do you want me to print out the new grading plan the new grades which each one of these that'll be easier for you to see how they get so that we
can now assign grades based on that. What was that supposed to be about 25 point? They are 25 point spread or difference between each until you get to the higher ones. I think the others are 50 point. Yeah.
There's extra copies there, too. Okay. Thanks. Um, so right now, interestingly, what it did is it put at least one individual in every grade except for grade 12. It's the only one that's the same individual, which is fine. It's
better than what we had before. Um, but it doesn't mean that we can't from your manual that we can't change the score range for each grade level. That was my initial. We may well
want to I'm assuming we will. You have to based on doing, right? Yeah. It would help. Yeah. something. Oh, no. That's right. You want it? Yep. Yeah, just the green.
Oh, yeah. I thought you were three. Thank you for grabbing that, Jeff. So, yeah. So now you can see based on the revised
scores. Wow. Labor is not right. Oh you can see what positions are in what grade levels. Tell me. So now we need to understand the points. Do you want that table reprinted?
That's the bigger table. Yeah. I feel like I need the total scores to be able to add them to the sheet to say higher. either the table or can be too late. Well, I guess there is a way to do it,
but regardless, it's getting that's easier as well. Senior operator. That's fine. bringing out. Oh, no. That's the employee. There should be three extras.
pictures. Oh, sorry. I missed. Oh, that's okay. I can make a copy for you. There. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Want to make sure If we were to do 50 point 50 point
spreads, 50 point buckets for each grade, we would have 10 grades. See much more management instead of 14. Yep. Bucket start at 200 and end at 650.
637. Yeah. Yes. 2006 but like where the I'm looking at like where do the breaks comes like in between constable administrative system there's a big gap if you go to 50 points in bucket
number one huh to get spill over. Yeah, you're public custodian and the library custodian. They're now really technically going to be bucket two at 258. Bucket two move
down. Then bucket three is put but now 50 is bucket four people will fall into bucket three 300 to 350. So the backup operator trailer collector operator parttime say bucket
is the recreation. Remember these are idea about who's in there together. They're points relative looking at the points. They're going to be in a so now you know points you got to figure
out how to do a bucket, right? And then eventually money got flow and make sense because you're going to have some people I think I haven't looked at it closely enough yet. Some people are in a bucket where that wage rate they're already above the
wage rate for the bucket. Well, we're gonna we're gonna Well, I went through using my advanced skills at subtraction and I was just looking at
like where are there big gaps? Okay. And just looking at the numbers. So, I'm not even looking over at the positions. The big gap, the first big gap comes between 225 and 248. Okay. The next uh big gap becomes
becomes comes between 280 and 316. The next big gap is between 316 and 330 33, but that could be talked out of that. But 333 to 366, those are that's that's a that's a solid section. And
then then the next big gap is 366 to 391. Uh then 426 to 474. We need 411. No, I put 391 through 426 are all over
426. So 426 to 474 is where the next big gap is. Okay. And then between 514 and 594. So like their natural grouping. If this were a bar chart, that's kind of where you would say, "Okay, you're potentially to help I just be what
concerned about doing different number spreads in points yeah gap between each buck okay um it might not be that far different
but because that's so these positions are not the only positions you're ever going to have for the industry Right. But sure, it's only seven buckets of buckets. But I'm just saying that that I don't
say we have to pick those. Yeah. I'm saying isn't that interesting? We've got nothing between 514 and 524. So there there there better be an edge of a bucket there. That's a
huge gap. Yeah. Like I would want that's why at 50 point increments they do break that way right and 50 starting at 637 and going down 50 points starting at 200 up to
two uh 250 and then 251 to 300 then 301 to 351. So when I do that 650 or ending at 700 it ends at 650. Okay. Um, when I do that 50 point spread for each bucket, I end
up with nine buckets. Um, 50 points 200 to 650 is 400. Nine buckets. Yeah. So, five positions in bucket one. So, admin assistant of other boards
all the way to substitute library associate. Bucket two is custodian to transfer station attendant. Custodian at 248. Sorry, that's administrative assistance. So the 248. Yeah. So 258 to 280 is one
group. No, I I Yeah, I understand where where if you count to 50 Yeah. where those lines would be. But some of those like cut right through the middle of something such as the one between 248 and 258. Those are actually pretty close. They're
close. But I mean, does that matter? I don't know. Doesn't it? No. No, it doesn't. I don't know that these the original model changed, but our scale piece. Yeah. But scale should be consistent. I
think that's very consistent on the scale and as you revise job responsibilities then they may then adjust here and then you may have a a bigger gap between your 248 258 because we changed the responsibility but you
want to change the the grading buckets. Okay. But in like within each bucket and step the pay is all the same. So somebody who's 248 is in a lower place than
someone who's a 258 because that person at 258 I understand but not that much more. No, not that much more. But that's going to be true every blind rate that we suggest. Okay, that's that's why I was saying the light should be but that's
why you need to ensure that you're you have a consistent measure and that's why if you are consistently applying points for each of the buckets that's clean and it's not being subjective based on how many points currently are based on these groups because they could change and
you're going to provise you have to have overlap the wage rate range of each and there is overlap There's there going to be people in bucket a higher bucket because you'll see yeah higher stuff isn't necessarily
lower than the first step or the next bucket. You're going to have some people in a lower bucket that are in a wage rate of the higher that's going to so you need to so so and that'll depend on these these numbers will also depend determine
where what step you might start. No, that's a policy that we have to decide. Remember, we have to decide if that's here. Step one, develop and finalize the step process proposal which we have to determine. Are we taking steps based on
your years of service or is it every two years, every three years? It's dependent on a few need to solve the bucket question, right? But it sounds like doing the 50 point
spread. I mean, it sounds like that's just been decided. There's nine, right? We don't want to do anything original, right? 25 points until you got to the very top end and then it was 50 points for those
last two or three um grades. Change those numbers. would be the reason to change what's already been provided by the consultant as far as how to set up. Well, the before we adjusted was this one here. Um
there's a lot of single single single person single job expanding. You don't need a 14. That's just a way to organize and then it's a question of right. Yep. Okay.
So I I like the concept that the model working with that 50. Yeah. Okay. So are we good then? The committee good on the grade
plan which break out the new one. I I don't see scheduling wise. Are we actually get through the night? That's going to be an already. Yeah.
The only thing we if we can we is there any way we can agree to this 50 point? But then is it up to we have you then plug in
the employees based on the on their years of service. If we make the decision about that that might be and have you sent that out to us. Um what more do you need out of us?
Good question. Uh I think if if we get to this point, we we decide how much how many years if it's every other year to go up. We can make that decision. I know the finance committee
needs numbers too. So yeah, that's the big issue, right? Is they meet Tuesday night. Yeah. Um, okay. So, the the other thing that we needed to do was got to do cola. Yeah, we had to do cola.
We have to determine the step process, but also that pay scale and step scale was based on um 14 13
grades. I will need to This might not be that difficult. Um, actually, it's going to be too difficult for me to do this, right? Because you know what the new buckets are. You know what the old way
and I know what the new Yeah. the old wind upanding. You just have to make sure that the percentage change between each grade is the correct. Uh yeah, between each grade is consistent with the 8%. Yeah, that's what we were using, right?
Was 8%. Yeah. And then 2.5 steps two. Oh yeah, 8%. Yep. Thank you. And then two and a half between steps. Um so I could do that. basically redoing this chart. Yes.
To a to a nine grade scale that is that the the same Yeah, that was the really old version and then I this is the newer I updated their version pieces of information in this is the newest version. Yes, but there's not a
new new version. new the newest the new new the new new new you need version number three so yeah I guess the question is is the committee okay with me doing that or do you want to meet again in order to review the revision to that full table
that would be the biggest piece that's I cannot do on the fly right now I think my suggestion would be redo this chart we have this chart and and circulating should be on our meeting quickly. And then you just have to have
a the problem is to meet we have to post within two business days. Today is Wednesday. Yeah. And so Thursday means if I was to post Thursday, the earliest we could be is Tuesday, right? Because we don't count
Monday. I mean we don't count Friday. Well, we you can post you can do we're just typically closed on Friday. So we post on Thursday. There's no way just to continue the current meeting. No, we have to post to repost the agenda. Yeah. But I could
post tomorrow for Monday meeting. Absolutely. So if you're open to meeting Monday, I'm open Monday. Yes. To review that. Not open Monday afternoon. I'm actually open Monday afternoon. Monday afternoon.
Did you print this yet? Not that one. Yeah. Not the new one though. Monday the 28th. I can do Okay. Monday the 28th. And it's how early you Yeah. I need to be done by 5:30. 5:15.
What about three? Yeah. Three. I have to zoom for that. Yeah, we'll do Zoom. That's fine. We'll focus on just that thing. Uh if you're open to talking about the step process, otherwise I can always do that
later. The one thing I do want to talk about is the cola because I do need to do Okay, so um the consumer price index did thankfully get updated with March values and guess what? It went down, right? It's down quite a bit. New England is
now at a 3.2 with the Boston metro at 2.5. So, we would stay with New England, which is 3.2. Um, that's 3.2 New England. And then I did get feedback from a number of other communities about what they're recommending their colon. Ashefield is
difficult. Ashefield is doing a 2% plus $1 per hour on everybody's rate because they do not have a rating scale, a step scale. So, they are doing a slightly different math to do theirs. Uh, Conway is doing 3%. Leverage is doing 3%,
Northfield 3%, Shelbury 3 and a half%. That's everybody that responded. So, may I ask just a general question on it? I came from private industry. We didn't use cola at all. We use
merit-based. So, for example, the average for I've checked in with a couple of the old management companies that was associated with the average might be 3%. But there are people that got zero. Yeah. People that got five before you even hit what
the step is. And so, I just wanted to understand, I'm not saying change process at all, but is it fairly typical in municipal government? municipal, you do you do a COLA and in some other communities a merit- based increase on
top of the COLA. Typically the merit-based increase is for those communities that do not have a staff grade program. That's what they they do look at and they're essentially what they have to do is their town meeting appropriates a certain bucket of money
for employee I think sometimes it's called employee retention maybe it and it's given to a bucket and the town administrator applies that based on a merit system and it does sometimes work out where if they got a three or less they got no merit increase correct or if
they got a four or five then they it was calculated in but it's on top of a pull up The cola is a so the step then essentially is merit based. A step is not merit based because more length of
service. Yeah. Length of service. And I'm like the idea is you get better at your job as you get more practice in doing your job. You get more experience. You have more experience. And so somebody you should be paid more. As you get more experience, you're doing better
at your job. Does that not create? I'm not suggesting that that's the case with any town employee, but if you had somebody that had cola and was just sort of marginal and hanging out in terms of their performance, how is that addressed
relative to these steps? I'm here five years. I kind of not really into it. I'm not really working all that hard compared to my buddy who really wants to get aggressive. he or she um wants to be aggressive in what they're doing and move themselves forward. That that's the
environment I'm used to. That's why I'm asking the question. Yeah. So, you're you're you're mixing pay and the performance performance is still evaluated. Performance is still evaluated in right um the annual
assessment or the annual performance evaluation that can be done based on those performance evaluation. It is incumbent on the department head to do an employee improvement plan if that employee is not at least meeting
standard. If they are not meeting standard, you put them on an EIP and then if they do not achieve their EIP within whatever that time frame is like 45 days or 60 days, you move on. So there are mechanisms cost. No, I I
appreciate that. All right. So you want to go back to your Yeah. I think evaluating merit is tricky. Yeah. Um it's a lot different in the public sector where everybody sees whereas in the private sector nobody unless you go and tell
everybody nobody knows what the other people get. It's not as now as that used to be. Now they put people in buckets and this is your pay range depending on what level of achievement you have in your job
position. It's like level one, level two, level three, right? I guess I I feel like we're not big enough to be able to establish. Well, it's not five of nine. I might want to debate this social
issue, but we we need to make a recommendation to finance. No, I'm just Thank you. Thank you for your time. No, no, I mean I don't mean that at all. I I I just meant I'm ready to get done what has to get done now. And this So then do we
have enough information based on what we heard from Pete for what other communities are doing? Do we want to make a motion and recommendation for it feels like well again a fairly narrow
language 3.5 I go the highest that we have full support I wouldn't go down to three finance will probably cut us to three but we started no I mean everybody looks like okay yeah I just feel like we have good support for 3.5 that's New
England and I don't think we start at three well you know like it to be more than 3.5, but I don't think we'll be able to sell that. So, that's my thoughts, but people may know different. I think you'd have to go at least four. And I agree with you. I think it's very important to take care
of you. So, we moving forward. Somebody wants to make a motion. Are are we taking forward? I don't know. I was just That's what Jerry said. Start. Nice knowing you in the community. advocate. That may be the number we
want, but do we think if we go in that high, it's going to get pushed lower than we want versus if we went in at like 375 and I'm just making up numbers here. We have to justify whatever number it is. That's and one one percentage point or
quarter point on a $30 wage. It's it's nothing. I believe we could sell four. Okay. And then because that that is your job. Actually, it's the chairman's job. I'm just a member of the committee, but you're you're one vote on the committee.
I have no votes on that. Correct. I am but one vote. I'm fine with going forward. I mean, we don't care people enough. So, I agree with this. I'll ask this again. Does someone want to make a motion? Uh, I'll make a motion that we
advise a 4% Hold on. I'll second that. Motion made and second to propose a 4% co. Any other discussion? If not, all those in favor I in
favor closing the meeting. Do do we need to decide the the like one year versus two year for steps? We could or we can do that next time because I can do that post meeting. Let's see. I feel we can do that after you. Yeah,
let's look at what the implications on. Yeah. So, I won't be able to show you the implication on each employee because I won't know what I actually put in that step, but I can at least show you this the grading. Okay. You want to tell me what you want
to do for step? I I feel like I can't think about it. I can't think anymore. We can three hours we start. We're going to make bad decisions. I'll call for a motion to adjurnn. So
second to all in favor. classroom.