Check one. Do we want to do a roll call? >> Um, I know who's absent. >> Okay. Okay. Okay, we're going to uh uh call the meeting to order and uh I think the first order of business we're going to take uh turns uh mayor and myself and
like we did last meeting and uh we'll share the chair u appropriately. So, uh, I think we'll get started in the first order of business. Um, we want to have an approval of the November 19th, uh, minutes and we have to have a vote on that. Does anybody have any questions
or comments or anything we need to correct in the minutes that we sent out and we'll clearly accommodate anybody or is everybody comfortable with that? >> So moved. Second. We >> have a second.
All in favor say I. Hi, >> Frank and Moren and I discussed earlier uh that would like you to join us in a moment of silence. I think you know why. Hopefully there wasn't something else today, but we're talking about Bondi
Beach, the uh massacre essentially there of the people out to celebrate Hanukkah and then the uh shooting and the killing of the students and wounding of students at Brown. So, uh let's please join
together. All of us would ask you to do that. Okay. Okay. we um start off the meeting on first on the agenda is we're going to um have a discussion about enrollment uh data and uh I'm going to call on the superintendent to start for us and we've
um put a lot of information together and tried to get that all out for you to uh look over and so um we'll be go through the presentation and be open for uh questions and comments. >> Great. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, so I have our data coordinator, associate principal Katrina Jensen here with us
today. Um, she's going to go over I put a PowerPoint on your on your um, desk that follows along with the information that you received over the the couple of days ago. So, Miss Jensen, if you could just go over and um, you know, if you have any questions, obviously, let let her know and hopefully she'll be able to
answer those questions. >> All right. All right. So the first thing I just put in here is I just listed the sources that I use because I always feel like that's important. So for the enrollment data, it's all on the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education,
their district profiles, and then I listed the different years so you would know where exactly where I got that. For the eligible students in the Whittier Tech community, um there's this website uh powerofbi.
us. That's where I got that information. The finance information is also from the um school profiles on the department of ed. It is from the year 2023 and that is the last update believe that or not. So
2024 should be out in about a month I guess. And then um the last thing is oh for the Whittier Tech admissions that is Whittier Tech data from this past summer. Um if you if you want anything I can go
over that. That's the sources that I use. So the next thing is I just started with the high schools and their enrollment over the last five years. Um I gave you the average enrollment which are in blue and then in the last five
years what has happened to the high schools. Have they increased or decreased enrollment and by how much? So, as you can tell, all of the high schools except Haveril High and Whittier Tech have decreased enrollment
and four of them have double digits of a decrease. Um, the next slide is from that power of BI. I think someone had maybe Bernie had started this last time. The only differences you'll see here are the updated numbers from the summer versus
he was using April 2025 numbers and I used the summer. So the first column are the students that were eligible to apply to Whittier. Um from our ascending communities uh the total was 1,286.
The next column is who actually applied. So out of the 1286 only 656 students applied. 221 kids were weight listed. 431 kids were accepted
from who actually enrolled. So 431 kids were accepted. 333 kids actually showed up on the first day of school. And that's comparing last year's 2024 of 300 uh 330, excuse me. So then I just did the percentages. So the percentages
there, the first one is eligible verse applied. So for example in Amesbury 40% of the kids that were eligible applied for IPS switch 16% for Newport 8%.
The next column is who applied got accepted. So 60% of the kids in Amesbury got accepted 72% from Georgetown. 71% from Marramac. The next column is
who actually came from being eligible. So only 18% came from the eligibility, 20% from Georgetown, 8% from Ipsswitch, 10% from West Newbury. The next one is they got accepted and if
did they come? So Georgetown had an 83% yes they came. IPS switch 66, Newberry Port 50%, Groveland 90 almost 91% of the students that got accepted actually came. Then the next column is um we had done
for during the admissions process uh a look at over the last 10 years how each class of Whittier Tech was um comprised of the different communities. And so for like these are the averages. So for example, in the last 10 years, Amesbury
averages 7.5% of the freshman class. Ipsswich is 2.4%. West Newberry is less than 1%. Salsbury is 4.8%. So that is what we used to propose the
aortionments for the lottery, which again was not a wittier tech choice. Um, and that's how we came up with those percentages. And as you can see, they're very close to what has happened over the last 10 years. Next up is just the stat the statistics.
So basically I just put what was in that chart and then I just put it to numbers so you could kind of see how the bars move. So this is um the first bar is how many students were eligible. Pink is how many students applied. Yellow was how many got accepted and the
maroon is how many actually came. The next one is all the percentages just so you can see um how many Am I going too fast? No. How many um kids, you know, all those percentages. Again, I just put them into
bar graphs so you could see. And then the last one again is the average over the last 10 years. And then how we came up with the aortionments for the lottery. And as you can tell with the bars, they're pretty almost identical.
So then next up is um the just vocational schools. So now we've switched from community schools. These are all vocational schools um in the state. I did not include um just Aggie. So if you're just an Aggie and not a technical school, you you wouldn't be
found here. Um so again, I did five years. The blue is the average enrollment. And the last column is how many have increased or decreased. And as you can tell here, only three vocational schools have had a decrease in their enrollment.
Um This next one again just shows you those figures, the five years. So I just put the average and the percent of increase and decrease because it's too much to put all the numbers. It would get confusing. So I just did the average and the percent of increase or decrease.
This next slide I just I just rank ordered them lowest to highest just so you could kind of see where Whittier Tech falls. As you can see, we're above the 50 yard line as far as we have more kids than a lot of our schools.
This is the finance information that I had gotten. So these are all the vocational schools again from the year 2023 and what their per pupil in district expenditure is. So as you can see Minute Man spends 35,000.
Um the state average is 21, Southern Worcester is 21 and then that black line is Whittier Tech at 23. So, we're almost at the bottom there, just so you can see. And then I did just um add again um what
our community perutual per pupil expenditure is. So, as you can see um Whittier and Tritoner in 23s, Ames, Ipsswitch, Newport 22 again that state average and then Haveril, Georgetown,
and Pucket are in the 19,000s. And that's it. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. >> Look like you did too good a job. >> Thank you. >> But pause for a moment as people digest.
>> I actually love this stuff. So We sat with um you before and uh we really um you know we asked a lot of questions the mayor and myself and you know from my legislative days I like to see the >> per pupil expenditures and she put those all together and I think they're helpful
for everybody to take back to your communities and see what is actually taking place here and the value that gets accomplished here with the numbers I speak for themselves. So, thank you for putting this together. >> Absolutely. >> Um, you know what would have been
helpful? When we list the other schools, the other text, >> um, what communities do they represent? >> We know our 11, >> but when I see and what they spend I have to say well
it isn't Lawrence or >> correct >> so what you know that that's of interest to me just because I think that that does make a difference when we're looking at numbers like this >> we can break that down and get that out for everybody that's very help
>> can I am I live here >> I mean is this is this working >> um I think that be data overload if you look at all these different communities because Minute Man has used to have 17 now has got 11 communities. It's going
to be data overload. If you actually um just aggregate it into the um the household income for each of those communities, you're going to get to the same general uh issue that I think you're you're concerned with.
>> That's fine. Yeah. Whatever works. >> Okay. So household obviously >> household income um >> that will take you'll have to do the math. >> Sorry I like math. >> So >> greatie.
>> Yeah. Um I think this is a necessary starting point. Um over the weekend I looked at the the demographic trends for the for this area. Um because we have our time
horizon is not this year or next year. It's essentially um far as far as the MSBA is concerned it's a at least a 30-year time horizon if not a 50-year time horizon. That's the requirement on the build. And if you look at the
demographic trends for the area um they are pretty depressing if if you think we should or let me give you an example. So for Triton which is in the process of um redoing
its school the projected change in population between 2020 which is a census benchmark which is a good number and the projected number for 2040 there's a decline of 45% in the 15 to 19
year old age category. So whatever we're planning we have to kind of bear in mind that the The general context is that of a very dramatically declining um population base and which is going to impact um
the schools in the area to a significant significant degree. And I assume the MSBA is very sensitive to some of these dynamics. And these numbers um and I can share these numbers as I did last time.
They come from the Don Mass study that was used for actually used for Triton. >> Good. I agree with Bernie that because of my other title I hold, but we also
with the state government and all municipalities, I know everyone at this room, their cities and towns are doing everything they can to change the housing stock. So, these numbers would be true if we stayed course but we're not staying course so
we should I think it should be a part of their you know understanding what potentially could be but I know that's not what we're trying to we're not going to stay this course so we hope not so >> I mean on this point it really is deeply
deeply essential uh and this we have the capacity to be doing that I should don't uh but there should be some people that do and I mean I don't know if anyone at the you know building authority is there anyone in
Desi because frankly um this is the $64,000 question and we need some outside experts to guide us on it because this is a lot of Is there an organization that my experience was when we were looking at
building uh projects for the uh the public schools there was an organization called NESD that did enrollment projections uh and they we we put them under contract that they don't do it for nothing but they do do it and they
turned out to be pretty accurate as I recall. So I don't know if there's some sister organization a brother organization for vocational school districts that do we have some >> so it's it's not an outside organization so with MSBA you give them a number that
you're looking for for a possible school they have a team and a staff that will really look at that number and look at the community look at the census look at school enrollment they do a deep dive because they certainly don't want to spend money on a building I they have a
vested interest in making sure that we get the number correct. So, that meeting is being held on January 28th where we will review um those numbers. Like I said the last time, we asked for a school of over 2,000. We had to peel it
back um and MSBA finally agreed to,400 um the last at the last project. So, you know, that's what we're looking at. it it's not, you know, we give them the number and then we walk away and that's what we get. No, there's a lot there's a very big study. There's a lot involved.
They do their homework. We've done our homework. Um, and then we come up to a number that we agree on. What will happen or at least I can say happened the last time is, you know, we had the number of,400 and then we also had the number of,280 which was is our current
enrollment. Once you get to through the feasibility study, they will tell you how much what the projected cost of a building would be at 1280 or 1,400. And that's when this school building committee will really have to make a decision about how we move forward. um
because that's really where the dollars um are connected to a possible project >> which I I agree that this is alarming but we also what I understand of the MSBA what they're
going to do is they're going to talk to the city councils they're going to talk to the clerks they're going to talk to planning boards they're going to talk because this doesn't I I mean there's four projects in Salsbury going on right now that this is not these numbers that
Bernie gave us are not calculated into that. So all these numbers that you know it's reciprocal goes up and down up and down up and down and they're going to contact all of our communities. What are you building? What's in the pipeline? What's five years out? What's 10 years out? So all these numbers are going to
change constantly constantly changing. So I I I I don't think it's a big red flag but it's something we have to be aware of is what I would I would say >> do do they calculate also for perhaps increased interest in vocational schools
over over the course of time? Is that we see trends in all of those things that you just mentioned that there is an upward trend in vocational school um applications statewide. speaking with our colleagues here um
there if this means anything there's 337 of our students >> no I'm sorry 33% of our students who applied were wait listed so we have that as a buff that percentage as a buff so it gives you that number
>> so like 220 kids couldn't come here >> right >> because we didn't have space so even even with the decline of the age and which I do think for individual towns and high schools I do think that
that is going to be an issue. I think we are different because kids want to still come here and I would say if we looked back and I can certainly do that with I bet we we always turn away about a third of kids. So you have about a third of a
pool that you could that could still come here if the decline was that bad. That's 220 kids every year. I think MSBA has a sorry. >> Um I think MSBA has a balancing act that they're trying to do, right? They want to make sure that we have a school
building that is, you know, sufficient for the next 50 years as far as enrollment and size, but they also have to be cognizant of the the other schools in our district and make sure that what we're doing here doesn't hurt them there. So it it's definitely a balancing
act. You know, I think yes, would I love to have a school for every student that is interested and every student that applied gets in? Yes. But that would decimate some of our schools. So that's that's the the what we're trying to balance here is is making sure that we have a building that is sufficient for
the next 50 years and has a good enrollment while also taking into consideration that there are other high schools um that we don't want to hurt while doing this project. the last meeting of the Hero School Committee, there was a presentation that uh the enrollments had dropped
unexpectedly for this school year and they were trying to calculate what that was going to mean in terms of the loss of dollars for the city. So, we knew we knew it firsthand just last week in in HR. So, I understand what what you're talking about there. It is
>> I'm going to go 67 like my grandson does all >> I get that every day. But there is I don't know it. I know he likes it and I know he likes it and it makes my day a lot of days. So >> anyone watch the South Watch South Park and you'll find out what >> is that what it is.
>> So just a quick question. >> I haven't gone that far yet. >> Quick question. 200 plus students more from Habil. >> No overall I was saying 221 kids were weight listed from all the communities. >> From all the communities. Is there roughly percentage of each community?
>> Yes. Because you that's on that that's on that chart. So hold on. So um like if you go to I know your Sbury so for example um 33 kids applied >> 21 came accepted 12 were weight listed.
So like 12 of your students >> didn't get in they didn't there was no spot. So let's just say let me just do a quick calc but that's about a third right there. >> Yes. So if your overall Salsbury eighth grade eligibility with that year goes
down by 33% in theory we'd still get 20 of your kids. >> Y >> you know what I mean? Because they'd still apply. You just wouldn't have anyone weight listed >> because they all get in. >> So the reason why I asked that question is that's not all communities are facing the same things. >> Correct.
>> Yes. >> Like you know West Newbury only two got w weight listed and only seven applied. So um that's in lies the problem with regional school systems. >> Each community has a different dynamic and different need
>> and that's what we're we're facing here because I I I've talked to a lot of my habal friends have called me and want you know the school bigger but I I try to tell them I don't know if that can happen because at the end of the day we're all
here we're already charged with I mean we have probably one of the hardest task anyone has ever faced trying to get this building done. We already have a no. Outstanding. I mean, it was such a big no. We're trying to get this to a yes.
So, we're going to have to, you know, thread the needle to get this done. >> Well, if you look at item, I think it's number five on the agenda. U both Frank and I did talk about this after the last meeting where there were very different
perspectives on the size of the building. Some would like it bigger. Some were concerned about the the costs of it and what that would mean for their communities. And I was hoping that I don't know that we need a vote, but I think I've certainly been more educated by Moren on this that Desi is going to
be the one or the MSBA to uh to determine pretty much the size of the school. And I and I didn't want us to be working on another plane from the rack uh because those are the people who are
going to determine in many ways what the what the willingness to pay is uh from the communities. And uh it does seem that we it would be good if we we were to say that we were going to work together concurrently with the rack u
and and be educated from MSBA as as to the number. But um that if we were to shoot over the 1500 that they were talking about um I don't think that that kind of differentiation would be helpful to this
overall process of what you just mentioned getting to the yes. So that that would I don't know that we need to vote on it unless somebody would insist that what I just said is not what we want to do and then I think we should discuss it. Um, but I I I think it'd be
best if we were to comfort ourselves for now with our role, which was to come later. um that the rack do its job and then work with MSBA to determine the size within a range and I guess also the
configuration what what types of what types of interior spaces that are needed for the best educational opportunities for the students who come here. Um, that's what seemed, you know, from the last meeting. It didn't want us to go
forward. Just wondering where we were all going with the size of this thing. And I think that we we talked about that >> and we both would like your opinions as to uh we could take a vote. I'm not sure
we need a vote because uh but but if if there's no objection to that, then let's just discuss it. if you have any other opinions to see where we stand in a few minutes to see if we can live within the limits that the rack is going to determine and desi is going to determine
and try to make it the very best building that we can and then sell that to the communities the people in the communities so that we can get to that yes on this next phase. >> So let me clarify this. You're looking for a motion of number of students.
>> Not really. I just I wanted to I thought we probably should do that. Okay. >> But I I I think if we're of the general mindset that I've just described, uh at this stage, maybe a vote isn't necessary. U just a general sense of of
if somebody were to object that tonight, simply say the eyes have it and we're all within the same mindset. Uh which I think is what we want to be rather than come up with a number that We really don't have the ability to back up with
money or with the application procedure through the MSBA. >> So I'd like to make a motion that we try to do 1,500 >> second >> that that's what we could work towards 1,500
>> and that would be a cap >> and that would be the cap. >> I have no problem. Second >> discussion. Any further discussion? >> This is going to come down to money.
Cost, money, skilled help. I know some people don't want a new building. You know, the general public might not want a new building. We still need this help. We still need these craftsmen. These prices are not going down.
Lexington and I know I was just talking to somebody recently in here. Lexington 660 million. All right. Lexington has money. All right. Not like we, you know, holes and around here, this area, right? These costs are still by the square
foot. Still costs a lot of money. What are we going to do in the future when we need plumbers, electricians, machinists, all the different trades that we need? You know, we can't just say we don't want them. You know, 1,500 might be a
good number. This is all a crapshot. Whatever numbers we use, whether it's 12, 15, 19, Desi already has their mind pretty much made up in how much money they want to spend. All right. this number and I hope we can
get down to northern Essics and utilize some of their buildings and utilize everything down there to keep these costs down. But there is going to be a cost. But the numbers of how many kids are going to come in here when you have a 100 to 300 kids on a waiting list that
want to get in here. These schools aren't going down. You know, if you look at the night school that comes in here, and I don't know what those numbers are, but I know they're high, and these kids have to come here three to five years to get
their license. All right? So, in 10 years from now, there's going to be the same type of group. They got to come in here to get their license. It's going to take three to five years. And it all goes to a cost, you know. So, I don't know how we come up with a number uh
that we can all live with. You know, you ask 20 people, you're going to come up with 20 different numbers for that. >> Uh three you chair >> Chris, how many square foot is this building and how many students do you have right now? >> Uh I want to say 350,000 square feet and
we have approximately 28. >> Could you put 1500 students in this building? >> Uh it would be a struggle. >> So you you figure right now cost for a building like this is between $1,000 and $1,200 >> a square foot.
Do the math. We were already told no at $442 million. So just asking for 1500 is a stretch. We're going to be going over the $442 that the people already told us no at.
So, I think trying to plan for 1500 is we're going to have to sell and in hopes that Neco has space that maybe we could put some of those 1500 students in or downsize it and put the administration staff in some buildings or we're going to have to get creative. And at those
numbers, we're going to be over 500 million dollars and the people already said no at 442. You got to keep that in mind, too. I'll throw this out there. Um, just because we're talking about building the population, the size of the
the growing population and all that. Newberry is in a weird spot because 42% of the town is unbuildable. >> So, it'd be nice to have three or four projects on the horizon. We don't have that. Um that said, every time I talk to people about Whittier, it's the demand is the first thing they talk about and
the demand to come to the school and the the desire to have more slots. Uh and looking at these numbers, it's it's probably also more kids need to apply, not just more kids need to to to want to come here. So, I mean, I'm I'm with my I think we need I think it's going to be a hard
sell, but it has to be around 1500. I think that's that just makes sense to me even knowing full well that our population is really not going to get that much larger just because it can't. >> Well, I look at things through two lenses. One is the policy side's the
politics side. From a policy side, you know, there's a lot of entities involved in making this decision. And unfortunately, you think the school building committee would have a lot of input, but financial reality, this and that, we really we really don't, you
know, we're we're, you know, we're part of the process. Uh, and from a political side, you know, boy, I learned when we do something, it just, you know, the telephone game plays and the, you know, you guys voted to do the
we don't put a number to this this early, it's just going to be bad politics, all right? Because it's just going to create all this chatter, good and bad. And you know, from a policy point of view, we're we're part of the process.
We are not the deciders. So politically, if we put this out to the public that, hey, we voted 1500, people don't know that we're not the deciders. They're going to take this as something as fact and this and that. They're going to build up. I I don't see
the win here politically and I don't see where it makes sense policy to take a vote and to sign a number right now. Michael, >> well I think the reason why we have to give a number the MSBA that's
Moren had to give a number to the MSBA. >> Do you before the 28th? >> Yes. >> I gave them 1500. Well, >> doesn't need to be. >> I'm okay with it, Kevin. I just try to
make sure Moren can do her job. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I don't want Don't want to do that. >> So, I have a related question. Um, does anyone have a good idea of the flexibility that can be built into one of these schools, for example? Right. looking at
how many uh seats we're going to need 50 years from now is totally absurd. Um but if you build a building that has a lot more flexibility to it, um then I think you have a lot more to work with.
And does anyone have any sense of you know can you reconfigure the school uh depending on what the profile is of the students, you know, say 20 years from now.
>> Chris, can I can I say something? >> Um, yes. Right. So, when you look at vocational education 50 years ago and how it looks now, we've had to make changes, a lot of changes, right? So, there has whatever is built has to have
that flexibility as far as the the vocational trade areas. What I will say is where there's little to no flexibility is the actual classroom size, >> right? That that is very prescribed by MSBA about what kind of classroom size
that you have. It is also prescribed the the the CTE parts of the program. But we need to keep that in mind as you know if we build that you need to keep that in mind because what looks like CAD now may
look very different in 20 years >> and that's kind of where you know we need to have a an architect that really takes that into consideration. Um but you know that's to be determined. >> So I support the 1500 number. Um, I
think it's a compromise in a lot of ways. >> Thank you, >> Richard. >> The last time we built it or excuse me, last time we designed it, we designed it for the future. So, if you know you're going to put an
addition on this 20, 30 years down the road, 50 years down the road. You don't want to leave a 10 foot concrete area and have to chop it all out. You do something a little for the future, you know, and that's basically what we have
to do. My only concern is Desi or the state, you know, they're controlling what we're doing inside. All right? Like they wouldn't the superintendent's office. I don't even think they we can't have any money in it. You have to build it free. you know, um some other areas,
uh the cafeteria, um those type of things, they're restricting what we can do. And it's like we can't even build it for the future because they don't they don't want to pay for it now. And that's what you're going to be up against.
It sounds crazy, but they're controlling the money. And they also told us at the beginning, and I might be wrong, that we were going to get 60 to 70%. I think ours dropped all the way down to 40% if not less. >> So there are things that are
reimburseable with MSA >> and there are things that are not. Um because we're a regional school, the superintendent's office is you know there's you know the regional part of our school uh admin is not reimbursable. Um you know I believe the the SRO is not
reimburseable. So there are many things that are not reimburseable um as you go through but that's where you know this team is really going to have to take make some tough decisions about what is worth, you know, is this worth not getting reimbured? Is this not worth
getting reimbured? >> Well, site work was >> right >> 50 to$100 million that we had to pick up ourselves. It wasn't even how do you do how do you build a building with without doing site work? >> Too athletic fields. How can you build a
school without athletic fields? Any other questions >> about the enrollment? >> Just just I'm sorry just to add on to what said that and also uh the flexibility is very important. Just remembering when we were touring some of those newer schools um vocational
schools the first project um they were already running into problems of maybe eight years down the road that they need to reconfigure and the flexibility. They weren't flexible. even little things that you never think about of signage that was permanent, say maybe
electrical, and now electrical expanded where they needed more room for the electricians and they had to put they couldn't even pull the signage off the walls and they just built this this school eight years ago. It was fairly brand new. So that flexibility and space
like Moren says with the uh you know the classroom space that's that's really not negotiable but it's it's very important when we get to those stages that we have to look at that down the road but who can plan for 50 years from now we went and toured I believe Essex
Essex is part of the state they built that for couple three 400 million whatever the number was >> 133 million >> right about 13 million dollars. They went they went and redid half of it. >> They didn't redo half of what they're doing is
>> they're ripping it down. They're redoing >> but the state's picking up the tab. >> Patience is a virtue and that's what happened with that project, you know, and I was there. You were involved. >> Yeah. So, it's been a you know, >> nightmare from day one.
>> Well, yes and no. But the state picked up the bulk of the tab which gave the the taxpayers a break. in those communities. >> It still cost money. >> It still taxed dollars. I understand that, but it came from a different pool. >> So, we do have a motion and a second,
but um we also understand that the January 28th meeting is going to be the one that determines this. Um, I would entertain a motion to table this and to see if there's not a sufficient desire to table it, then we vote on it.
We can postpone it or we can vote. But the way parliamentarily to do it would be for somebody to make a motion to table. Second, there'd be no more discussion. If the motion to table fails, then we should vote. I think there are two wills of two mindsets here
tonight. That's the one way to get through it by means of >> a motion to table. >> Is there a second? >> A second. >> All right. >> All in favor of tableabling it, please raise your hand. >> Two, three, five, six, seven, eight. I
get eight. You get eight. >> All right. Against >> table. >> This is against the table. Yeah. >> Against table. >> Yes. Okay, you count that way. I'll count this.
>> Two. >> Did you have your hand up, Karen? >> To table. Yes. >> To table. >> Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six. >> So, it's table.
>> Great. >> And we'll we'll be advised and we can take it up at our next meet. It's table until the next meeting. Um, >> you can look over all the information, the debt. I mean, it's really the numbers are what they are and I think that we've they really did a wonderful
job Katie putting that to >> Oh, yeah. No problem. >> Put it out there. So, >> and I will get the um the town household income. I will get that to you for your next meeting. >> That'll work out. And I despite there was a different vote on the table. I think we're in the same place more or less.
>> And my concern after last meeting that was that we might be going different places, I think we're here together and uh we're We want to hear what the rack has to say and what MSBA has to say. And uh the next thing is to schedule another
meeting. >> Number six on the agenda. Scheduled another meeting. Hold on. We want to go over that letter. >> Sorry. >> We have to discuss the letter. >> The letter. >> We have any lawyers in the room? >> I didn't put my glasses on. >> Who's the attorney? >> We have any lawyers in the room? That
was my question. I was thinking about it. >> The attorney. Well, because the letter is frustrating. It's like an attorney for an attorney, you know, tell me what it mean. I think I read it and I said, "What does this mean?" Right? >> Said it twice. I couldn't figure it out >> and I didn't want to. >> So, that's why I said that to everybody, but we can we want to talk about I think
that's important. >> Okay. Sorry. >> So, that's why we put that on there. >> I think there was a you know, a frustration by Jim and myself and I know Moren struggled with it. So, we just wanted to get some comments from everybody around the table and uh figure
out where we going to go with that. >> How they contradict themselves >> all through the letter. >> It's like a public employee just writing letters >> given giving themselves an L is what they did through the whole thing. Go ahead. >> So, I I think I think they're giving us an opportunity if I read through the
lines of it and I think that that's a good thing. >> Um you know, as we go through a feasibility study, um you know, we have that was just here, but now we're looking at one at possibly at Northern Essex, right? So, that is going to be
different. And being able to take the the previous study, look at what needs to be done so that we are showing our due diligence to our community. I think that's really important um this time around that we we almost have a comparison of whatever is going to
happen on this new study and I I think that that's going to be really beneficial. That's what we talked about at the little meeting which is very important. >> Is everybody comfortable with that? >> Yes. I assume you're going to get some clarification on that meeting on the 28th.
>> Not from not about that letter that the meeting on the 28th is really about enrollment. >> Okay. So, we're just gonna kind of >> I think once we have an OPM, >> we we we want to I think we want to make sure we have some feedback from all of you about that new feasibility study and
what it would what it will cost to >> move up there on the 18 acres. And I think that's the confusion that we got from the letter. >> Again, I look for clarification. >> Yep. So we have a feasibility study that was already done that we can use
um in contrast to a new feasibility study at Northern Essics. So we're not losing the old feasibility study because it didn't include northern essence but we have no choice but to do a feasibility study that includes nonics.
Is that the way this is going? >> Yes. I do think they'll allow us to use certain parts of the previous feasibility study because you know when I think about the dirt right the dirt doesn't change if there was a study done on the dirt the dirt at wood ear doesn't change so that would be possibly
something but this is really this is something that our our owner's project manager that we will that this committee will hire I think that we'll have to really take a deep dive into that work >> well because this is a $500,000 question
Whether we use whether we have to go back and do a complete feibility study on this property >> or whether we use elements of >> reading between the lines. They did not say >> the question was elements. I think you hit it right on the point. >> Yes,
>> that's exactly the point. >> I took the letter. Maybe I'm wrong, but that we can use the study needs to be updated for anything related to the four phases in to be a new study. I think that's
significantly different than the original interpretation of two a full study with two different things happening. But that was that was my take. I thought it was actually somewhat positive but not very clear. >> Right. Not clear. >> And I think people need it to be clear for their communities. I think that's
the >> Yeah, I mean this is unfortunately that letter is something you would argue with too, you know, like lawyers would have fun with you. We need a letter that's in black and white. This is No one is disagreeing
>> when was just talking about the OPM the owners project manager I believe odds was 450 to 500,000 and we hired the architect which was about a million dollars all right um those are the two key things we have to
do now we we can use some of the old data you know on the fe feasibility you So maybe it might not be 450 500,000. Maybe we get it done a lot less because it might be a lot less things looking at over there in northern Essex. We've got
existing buildings, but we don't know what extent it is to look into their buildings for the for what we need here because we need shops over there. We can use classrooms, but it's where the shop it's where the shops are.
That's where the big a lot of the money is. Yes, I had Oops. >> Good. >> Good catch. >> Thank you. >> Um I had looked at the um previous feasibility studies and was not happy at
all. Um I looked at the 20 2014 2015 study which was the original one which um and compared that to the the more recent feasibility study and I found significant I'm not construction I don't
have a construction background obviously I have a numbers background but I have um I had major issues with the um what I saw as an inflated um cost of redoing
this campus this school um dramatically so And those some of those concerns have essentially um manifested themselves in actually um the repair of
certain key key systems such as the wastewater treatment plant which was originally estimated at close to 12 million and now is looking at Western Samson's estimate came in at 600,000.
So I think we our our communities deserve a full assessment of of the options both this existing campus and the um and the
northern essence campus. I do not believe the um the last feasibility study um which was really targeted and designed around rebuilding this um redoing this this building completely
basically tear down and rebuild. That's my skeptical view of what had actually taken place taken place. >> We have a tour scheduled. Excuse me, Frank, for one moment. We have a tour scheduled for the 15th of January
conducted by Mr. Hardy. >> I plan to be there. I hope that you will and others. I'd like to hear what he has to say about we we won't get numbers, but we'll get a clear sense of what he thinks the needs are and probably some
summary of what he thinks the possibilities are for repair. I I certainly want to know that, too. I think everybody wants to know that. >> Back to what you were talking about the treatment plant. I've learned a lot going through what we did there.
We hired Weston and Samson this summer. for I believe a hundred or $110,000. Am I correct? To do to go inside our tank, which you don't want to go, I don't want to go. Nobody really wants to
go inside that tank. So, they found a day and they had to rescheduled and re rearranged different times. We wanted to do it through the April vacation if I'm not mistaken. Well, anyways, we had them do it this summer. They went in there. They were kind of surprised that inside
that tank that we have to go out there isn't as bad as we thought. So, we could get five more years. We could get 10 more years. However, we've got to spend some money in there, whether it's 200,000 or $2 million over the next two
or three years to keep that going so we can get five to 10 years out of it. We're not just pulling those numbers out of the sky. >> No, no. I've read the I read the last election report. >> I read the report. I know what their brief was as well. Instead of their brief being 30 years, it was for 10
years. Okay? >> So, it should have been for 30 years. >> That should have been their brief if you'd already hired them and they're completely qualified engineers. I mean, but now they want now that 100,000 I believe has already been
taken care of. Now they want another five or 600,000 to go forward to manage this thing for the next two or three years. >> No, their estimate came in at 600,000 with significant contingencies tied into
>> tied into it cost you more than 600. Their management fee may only cost 5 to 600,000, but to do the work it's going to be a million and a half to two million. >> That's not what they said. They didn't give us the numbers yet. That's why I've
talked to some people. >> Okay. Anybody else comments on feasibility? >> I I would recommend people look at the S Wesson and Samson studies as a as a kind of a proof point in terms of looking at
the old estimates, the previous estimates from left field for redoing the building. Mike >> on the piece of blue. I just say I think we'll get ahead of oursel until we hire OPM. The other one's going to be in charge of
all this. So I think we'll get a little ahead of oursel on the feasib feasibility study. That's just my opinion, >> but I think we're forming questions that we will want to ask the OPM and we're
we're coming up with the background information that uh >> Yeah. And a lot of >> I'd like to talk about the OPM real quick, maybe at the end of the meeting or something. >> I think we should be >> talking about that at some point. We got to start trying to hire an OPM. Just to
clarify why we brought up the the letter is because of the confusion in the letter and we wanted to get clarification on it because as you move forward we have to have a reliable feasibility study to work with and I think that's why we were confused on
that letter. That's why that was brought up. >> I absolutely agree that the letter is confusing. >> Yeah. I think we'll take Mike Mike's >> interpretation of it and move ahead as if we can do something of what we want
and uh let them tell us when we can. I think we also got to remember the geniuses of why that letter was created was from the municipality leaders try to save money >> that's why it was >> but the point of as to whether a new
study would save money on the building and all that's those questions have to be asked >> if Moren or the school has to go for money in front of towns they're going to have to get that past town meetings city city city council is a lot easier to get money appropriated
>> not the one I not the one I was used to. >> I got all I have to say was there >> we'll take our open meeting against >> Kevin >> quick question uh just clarification um the uh issue is not well the issue is is
uh making our rack committee satisfied happy that that is the issue right in front of us so where where are we with that in terms I mean They're the ones that are going to look for the clarification. How how are they going to get it >> relative to what now? The clarification
>> the letter from from you know the building. >> So the first RACK meeting is Wednesday. Okay. >> And they're going to look at that as well. So >> we'll be attending it at 10:00 at so >> we'll be hitting that ball over there
right answer that question. >> Okay. But I think we have got a good good sense of it that we there are some opportunities here to do what we really want to see done and we just have to be clear next time around which we talk about in a moment as to where
go ahead >> future meeting dates. >> Um next um is number six uh future meeting dates. We have the tour date already. I think is 15th
>> 11 o'clock. Yep. 15 11 >> January 15th. Um I I will send out an invitation to everybody um so that it can be put in your calendar. If you can't make it, just let me know through that. >> What time did we have that? >> 11 o'clock.
Um, as far as future meeting dates, you know, I will once I have the meeting with MSBA on uh January 28th, I will forward you a letter to let you know where they they stand with that and what what they where they were uh as far as
numbers go. Um, I don't at this point um think we need to have a meeting date on the books until um we know if we're going to go into feasibility. We don't even at this point know if we're going to go into feasibility until the end of April. So, um >> fine
>> and if we do need a meeting, you know, I'll definitely reach out to the chairs and and ask. >> So, there's nothing that we can do one way or another to determine whether we go into feasibility this group. >> No, not this group. school committee will determine. Well, I think every for this group we
put the most important things out the table so everybody's been able to talk about it and discuss and understand >> everyone understand what we just said about won't be a meeting until >> okayish and at that point that's when um
they will then we know that we have feasibility we know we have funding for it and that's when we will be hiring an OPM and the OPM basically will kind of take over this piece and really give us direction about how we move forward, look at the old feasibility study and and really be able to um help us with
this process. >> So the answer to the question about whether we could use parts of it and how will that be answered? >> Well, they they have they have relationships with MSBA. They probably can understand this letter better than we can. >> Um so that's the hope anyway,
>> but I I I read it as being very hopeful. It wasn't a no. >> So, so January 15th at 11, I'll send a meeting uh an invitation to you um over the next couple of days. And then >> that somebody wanted
was it you Kevin? They wanted to discuss something at this meeting with Mike >> I just I heard that OPM but Moren pretty much said what I wanted to say because the OPM is going to control 90% of what we do. So
Okay. Um, is there any other new business? Anything? Anybody wants to touch base on it? We didn't touch. >> Happy holidays. >> We need a motion to adjurnn. >> Take a motion to adjourn. >> Second.
>> All in favor? >> Thank you everyone. >> Thank you. Have a wonderful holiday.