human service advisory committee about that age 10 what all got handed out here yeah can you summarize so the intent of providing this history is
exactly that to give you background of what has been over the many years with human services and public health I'm sorry Human Services in public health um so it basically walks you through the
current status of the Health and Human Services advis advisory committee with the mission statement the bylaws and then it goes into more the specific of Statute requirements um we did not number the
pages but the third page in is a document that provides you the governance and organization structures in Minnesota and it's basically the intent of this is to show you which
count Community Health Board and which have be combined so you can appr that at your leisure um again it gives you more statutory information um then if you go back I don't know how many pages this in but
you'll see in the packet an agenda request for board action from April 3rd of 2012 um the intent that is if you go to the bottom of the page there's a commitment to board
item the community services so that is where we had Springstead come and talk with all the employees in the management um and discuss the structure of Health and Human Services so I thought that was very good um
history for the board um and the report is in commit here in for you and I realized that you haven't had a chance to read this but I think it might play a role in yours see what the next so then I also included the section
sorry the resolutions that were approved his3 of 2017 20 2019 1979 Etc so it just gives you the history um again it's just meant as informational to you I realize this is
just to discuss whether you want to move it forward or have additional discussion on the task of separating the two committees okay well you get why do I have tree stuff at the end because it actually is part of a an action of the
res that um deals with the community application the Department of Agriculture yeah but the the agreement and the resolution that it's attached to it's deals with the commissioner of Public
Welfare um and the board naming the okay well I'll I'll look it over social servic administer forade well so you got information so I think initially we were just talking about our advisory
committee but you're this is about the advisory committee but then you get community all board so we act as the commun the County Commissioners act Community he right but it it it impacts your structure okay so if if you are
going to have a human services committee and it's formed under I believe statute 402 then you have to you don't have to have an administrator a CHS administrator so that's why I wanted to put this all together because it your
structure does impact what positions you must have does that make sense okay well we used to have two separate committees advisory citizen advisory committees so we we can't go back to to we can okay
but we have to have something in place we we'll have to change the resolution um now the part that I haven't had a chance to discuss with K is whether or not you have to have an ordinance oh okay okay so that's what I
didn't have time to research is whether or not the board did an ordinance in order to establish the way you are now that's the part I didn't get to okay I don't remember what we did when we mind them but I mean I don't I don't remember well Leed a lot of the data but not all
of it and and part of it is from my observation is the Human Service public health advisory people only have so much of a attention span and it it seems like the health always gets put at the end of the agenda and it just everybody's kind of ready to leave
at the end and it's at the end of the day too and so I I just don't personally I don't feel Public Health gets as much uh time and and uh discussion as as they should um we do have separate departments within our state
organization and um so I just that's that's where I'm leaning and I also um one of the past uh members of both committees uh Dr Aden had had also uh given me a call and said he also agreed that Health just doesn't you know rise
to the top as much when you combine the two and he he would be more than willing to be a um you know an adviser and sit on a committee and he's he's a he's a major you know U been in the I think he's all retired now but a major provider in the community for many
years well one time this was two then we went to one and now we're looking at going back to two yeah advisory committee advisory not the Departments we're not we're not talking about another department head we're not talking about it's just an advisor but I'm just saying we had to split not back not going back who would like Mark
speaking for myself only I would like to consider going back to two try it for a year or so see how it goes this is not meant Marine to criticize any staff member there's been a lot of turnover in different positions but that committee is not working at should we say
optimal levels it's it's a large committee it's clunky me we lost someone who was who was frustrated with the block of us doing anything I nominate Chris Rogers So today we're just this is just a rough conversation right marine and
want to move forward and through their research just a more information if there's a purpose to it I could see doing it it is another meeting you know but if there's Merit it the only thing that really hurts right is just some time is that really yeah it's
staff time staff time although em current Personnel Emily she attends you know so that maybe she could emphasize the health versus Human Service I mean I would like to start instead by maybe making a consert first of all I
agree with you and in terms of that the committee has really struggled all year to set goals and never said goals so they never did anything it's all true right but that um I'd like to see that improved
um but I would also agree with you and if we could just set aside a certain amount of time or every other meeting where we focused on only Public Health that might achieve the goals as well is there possib try to work with Ruth
Charles on that and it just didn't seem to happen I think you're right and Ruth has time turned off so we will and and her emphasis was the Human Service and I totally understand and that's why my desire is to break people that have more of a health um you know emphasis and and
because we have some very valuable community members with very important perspective and good ideas that we are completely not and they're there but they're just not engaged because the conversation is correct so I mean is there I and again I
I've never I don't understand this I'm just being in a lot of meetings can we just create a hard stop and say it's a hard stop no matter what then we move on to Public Health to Public Health I mean we do that all the time it's a hard stop and we could we could unfortunately
right at this point in time though with the makeup of that committee it is heavily Human Service Providers and so that even the people bringing forward public health issues would be minimal do the people that are heavily on that side
would they feel slighted if it were to be separated because although they want to focus on that they still want to have something to do with the other side what I'm looking for is leverage leverage saying if you don't follow my hard stop we're going to split the board I think if you came I'm serious I mean I think
if you came to a meeting it would take a rocket science to read the room there's a lot of people who are not engaged and we're not operating let's just say optimal efficiency but other ways so you see where I'm going with that where you could leverage that and say hey this is what's going to happen if we don't set
aside this time kind of like the in this in my opinion at the state level the Human Service budget is like this public heal is a decimal point in a Human Service budget honestly probably should one's leading to the other
yeah I may it'sing um I I understand um I have observed over the years um from my perspective it isn't about separating the Committees that will lead to success
or no success it's about the leadership that oversees those committees and helps that those chairs or vice Chairs set goals measurable outcomes and strives with the rest of
the leadership team to bring those topics to the Committees to do the research and put together ideas to bring back to you as the County Board and recommend changes to processes and
policies that's what they are they're advisory yes they are not decision makers they don't change things they recommend changes to you as the board so with all due respect we can separate them but I honestly don't think that
that is the answer because we want these departments to collaborate to be together United and to help each other in brainstorming about how do we get from A to Z if we in public health do this how does this impact Human Services
and if we separate them they're going to go on their own paths well but like I said though already we've made appointments for this next year now do we open it up and expand the committee because I'm s there's very few public health people couple I think at least
two of them that be appointed were yeah and um Andre the lady from Leckie oh then there's a third one Jackie Henderson comes from committee then there's a fourth now of course we haven't elected any chairs of that
committee that which has to happen up and Marine I I completely agree with what you're saying I'm I'm going to say this without getting critical we have a leadership back I've been waiting for 2 years for that to happen and it hasn't happened and I don't foresee it happening I think
we need to let turn it over to the committee there are natural leaders leaders already and to give them and give it a try because I've been waiting for two years and it's we we're were it's not happening so I'd like to try it and I still think that we could
and should have joint meetings of the two doesn't mean that that's a Forever part two three times a year we could have joint meetings Etc but I think we also need to turn over um and give more of the leadership to the community to the with input and partnership with the staff Etc but it's just it's SP so my
concern with this is that we want the advice that they give us to be helpful and I know that there are folks on that committee who really felt that we should create this collaborative or and it was modeled after lacrosse and we had
presentations and but that wasn't really a thing that had support or fund or inside the county right so then it isn't really contributing to what our County staff is trying to do which is
why I tend to think that what administrator Hy is saying that yep we haven't had uh great leadership coming from our HHS Department can that because that's I
really do want what we ask that committee to do to be something useful for us and not working at Cross purposes recommending new programs that we not going to fund I say your Leverage is yeah this this just the fact that it's being discussed if there's any Merit to anybody that sits on any of these
advisory boards to keep it together are going to have to figure out how to control the narrative that's really what it's going to boil down to because if you can't control the narrative it's going to have to separate it's just like take the two kids apart if you can't get along okay well you go over here and you go over here and then eventually bring
you back together so you know a little to commissioner bagley's saying is maybe it's got to be that way for a year or two until you learn the importance of both sides and then you bring it back together but before we go before I would do that I would follow Marine's
suggestion but I think somebody's got to kind of come in there with an Iron Fist and say this is the way it's gonna be but I mean clearly clearly the clearly what's the way it's being run is not working and we want to be having this so you know and again I know very little but I'm consider myself someone
good at procedural aspects and so that's what I would see and so I think they just it needs to be known that and and and stress that this isn't something being taken lightly there is there's concern to um you know dismember it and
and and go from there and I think that might help change the narrative in control because the ultimate outcome doesn't matter if they're together or apart as long as the function of the boards are happening we're just using the separation as a tool to try to gain traction on one side
that we feel slighted so if we can do that without separating it and still maintain the bond why not but I think it's going to take somebody stepping up going hey this needs to change or this is the outcome well I still firmly believe that they should be two separate
because the missions in the the uh of Human Services is different than public health and the even if you have a and I I agree with uh uh commissioner vagle maybe a couple joint meetings throughout the year but I think a public health group
would really tackle the some of the local issues like water you know the well testing and stuff like that now it gets mentioned at the health and human services but nothing really I guess the Serv has become more
well as commissioner said that this group comes in tells us what they do and everything but then we haven't done anything uh concrete with it I mean we're educating other members of the community what other groups are doing which there's nothing wrong with that but the
public health people are sitting there and like huh you know what I'd rather talk about water childhood immunizations can you envision for me what you would have them do to advise us related to let's say water well you take
the core F well water well they should have been working we you know of course uh working closely with the state of Minnesota and making sure uh you know that the information gets out like right now do people still know they can get free well testing and and concentrate on it and dive into the information but is
that a function of the county is that a function of our staff or do you see that as a function of those individuals sitting on the board that's really what I'm trying to understand is gu what is that they can actually do that's the and I because I think that keeps being the kind of the issue exactly what well they
can be you know again like you get a person like Dr Aden who's well respected in the Community if he says something and can you know even start a article campaign or some you know something regards to Public Health I think it'll have higher impact the the committee
again with the leadership and then the lack of leadership at the county is just like I say it's been a lot of presentations well we do this we do that and you know we work together and which is again nothing wrong with educating people but it hasn't led to any actions I mean one of the things I've considered
is could we uh take the lobbying list let's say from Micah related to Public Health or from Human Services which is like so full of acronyms and bureaucratic that it's like almost incom can be worse than water boards in what are they actually talking about but if
you are an expert in social work and you actually know you could maybe do some research and come back to give the board help in terms of understanding and lobbying points in terms of what we need to be lobbying for I mean that's a thing
that they could do for us but here's here's a little thing that I don't think people understand and I just learned you know hand sanitizer does not kill certain viruses neuro virus yeah neuro virus yeah you know how [Music]
many but it doesn't soap and water CLE get it drust me pardon me carbon sh cleaner get it but I mean it's a little thing like that that Dr Aden used to give us when we had separate and this is I'm take going way back he'd he'd have a
tip of the day you need more vitamin B you know take a vitamin B tablet every so he has done that for the committee and he did it sometimes during the pandemic he would talk to us but he frustrated with the committee but that he's telling the other committee members right so in terms of advisory to like to
us the County border us the Public Health Board that's where I like well I don't even think we should be the Public Health Board because none of us have any health background I'm not a you know honestly I felt like during the pandemic he shouldn't be going to that meeting he should be coming to well and
so you know ultimately I think the Community Health Board should have some Professional Health people on it instead of Five County Commissioners seriously if you want to you know keep keep the step I take your point I take your point because I don't know you know so I don't know that my thing was what exactly give
it a try what exactly would we ask them to do and I well I'm gonna speak for myself only the status quo and it's not so much it's just leadership turnover I don't want to talk about it in there's been a lot of leadership turnover to me in my mind I view it as the staff giving
there there should be some information sharing but it shouldn't be the whole meeting it shouldn't be staff coming and talking to 12 community members and they just sit there and look at them or whatever else and then the meeting's over it but there should be some component of education and information sharing um and then the staff probably
will want to run ideas by these these community members um and to get their advice Etc I also would like the to have them bring ideas forward for consideration because they we as Commissioners aren't the county staff we're the we're the bridge between the
county um staff and the public is to have some ideas and initiatives all of which are not possible but um what what's been happening is just better and I don't want to use it as like a a threat or a punishment as we're going to divide you into because it's more like a an opportunity it's a restructuring it's
a chance to try it a different way and see if it works and if it doesn't work then we can come back because I remember what it was and I'm not again not I'm at not asking for two department heads but I remember what it was when we had Len thyer and Greg Greg Craig Brooks um there was a lot of things that each of them covered in independently Etc but
I'd like to also to have the the community members much more actively involved not just passively sitting there on their hands listening to staff rattle off a 100 acronyms at them which most of which they don't understand Etc to have a lot more conversation going back and forth but the issue I see with
that is that's that's great what we want but it's not working so what steps it's not happening hasn't happen and that's where that I didn't mean it like P Hitler Iron Fist I just mean somebody's got to step in and be like okay here's the it's it is in essence a threat I mean it's an ultimatum it's it's well we
can we can Church it up however we want the reality of it is if it ain't working we got to do something different and if there's Merit to the people that want to sit on both sides of that board we're going to have to figure out how to equally prioritize both sides of the board meaning
that we might have to just that's it you know and I can definitely appreciate because sometimes it's nice to just pull off because even in that narrative The Narrative starts to build in a conversation even under a certain scope of something and we see that a lot where
we revert back to the topic and then who's the gatekeeper that says nope don't go back to that stay on Focus you know that's that you know that's the hard part and so sometimes it is easy to just pull it away and okay we're going to have our own conversations the fear I would could see is what Marine talked
about um and also the people that enjoy being on both sides of that coin don't know I'm not part of this board it's just a procedural aspect so I I I I think the big thing is we know what we want I can understand that but this is
how do you get there is the bigger problem so before I actually took office it was a time where our child protective or out of home placement cost had gone from like half a million to three and a million and that committee was tasked
with this idea of what do we do about it so one of the things was to get more family members to be willing to become foster parents one of the ideas was how do we better support the foster parents that we have so they don't quit they created a survey they invited some
foster parents to come they helped with the recruitment so they were they were given uh like some stuff to actually do and I that's really what I would like to see is that we give them some actual problems actual things to work on have
we solved that problem I haven't heard how many a of Home placements do we have today it's better it's better but better but still so I did have conversation with the leadership team in health and human
services and this is the very kind of conversation that we had in reference to what is the purpose the intent of the health and Human Services advisory committee and what is leadership's role with that committee we talked about the
very things that you're you stated here tonight um the the thing again is we have to have the leadership to guide the committee and if we have we don't have that I I understand Dwayne but here's
the thing if you're going to take committee members and have them take charge of the committee that is exactly what was happening yes it was because we didn't have leaders I'm sorry go ahead my point is you don't know what you're going to get
as committee members and how they may or may not lead as a citizen advis and if they're going to vote who is going to be chair you don't know where you're going right so I'm just saying you have to have leadership within the organization
overseeing the committee yes that's the key I would also add yes and no to me it's a partnership it's part of what the committee does is oversees the staff as well but way back with Craig Brooks part of one of the functions was it was to review um I
think it was foster services Etc is that it was to review it was it's oversite going both ways absolutely yeah I think the people we have um have clients and others that work with the county to say what we're doing well where there's room for improvement BS it's definitely a
partnership yes so where do we go from here I guess we need to let the staff know if there enough Commissioners who want to pursue it or do we just let it be for now well I would like to pursue separate I would like to pursue what the rest of you think I think that the we can make room
on the current committee with it joined to discuss public I don't I don't know that the first move that we need to take is to separate I think we benefit from the committee as it is as long as it's structured I'm really impartial I can
see it go both ways and because I I'm a little more distance that board I don't understand all the idiosyncrasies so um I I could support it either way giving it a different shout but I really heavily got to rely on other people on this to to to make that decision um I I I I
would think before we dismember it you know my first gut instinct is again I see both sides but before we dismember something have we exhausted all the opportunities and if the opportunity is simply just bringing some light to it and saying hey this is an issue we got to all play nice in the sandbox um quit
dumping sand in my hair and if that doesn't work we revisit it so well just for the record there is no tension um no and I'm using this figuratively speaking like hey we've got an issue that a lot of the tension's going to this side we need to pull some attention to that
side so you are neutral as of not in a way you're the side vote but you can also be neutral in it I mean it it can go either way for me I can see both sides and if it if it's deemed necessary to separate it for a temporary
period of time and then reconvene later I I would support that so may we have a little more time to evaluate what we can and cannot do as an organization again I have not had an opportunity to work with
Ken we tried our best can't make a decision I provide an opportunity for the board totic and I understand but we were trying our best to get and we also in in defense of the staff we need to let you know if should we if we're going to ask you to spend more time on this or not
true yeah okay all right so you know what you're gonna do gather okay we're going to gather more information looking at the statute right now we'll we'll return to it Committee of the board yeah no but I need a little
time to work with it'd be interesting to see this and try to understand and if you have questions as you read through the packet please reach out so that we can get you the clarification so that's all we had on our agenda
so no we have Community Health Board schule but I have to give this to my health person I saved this saved this for you it says public bless
you a separate sure do all right goes with your attire I sa I saved it for you go you're very welcome all right we will call to order the Community Health Board and we have the uh uh item two approval
of the minutes from January 7 7th 2025 also move second okay we have a motion by commissioner Meyer second by commissioner Olson to approve the meeting minutes any a discussion all those in favor say i n approved uh chairperson's report um we will have our
first sha meeting coming up next week um and uh see where that goes um and like I said earlier for those people that are here uh hand sanitizer does not kill the virus little tips like that you know you see hand sanitizer all
over the place but your best beted is soap and water and aren't you supposed to sing the Happy Birthday song or something yeah for the the length of time to wash your hands that's the best thing you can do right now um and then I was listening um unfortunately I think
it was what state now there was a outbreak of uh tuberculosis um is it Kansas yeah it that's not good it's the biggest I think like 60 some which city uh I don't know
if they didn't say really City it was one of those news articles you know you're listening to but you don't listen to um but it is making a little uptick um and it is a not a good thing so uh if anybody um you know doesn't feel really
well go get themselves checked out um and we'll stay tuned um it's a little unnerving the legislators um with uh our comments last time that everything in public health is Grant funded and who
knows what's going to happen um there's a lot on the table the the plus is that as I said earlier the public health budget is so small in relationship to the state budget that there you know when you start talking about Cuts there's not a lot to cut and you don't make big big impacts or savings so um I
think the governor is looking at other departments and other areas to make uh more impact impactful things to our budget um anybody else have anything about anything going on in the community how how are the schools doing are you pretty healthy Dwayne um Mr uh I'm
pretty healthy thank you for asking uh we have um I think Emily would know better we have I'd say the normal percentage of kids who are sick normal I haven't heard anything out by y okay okay that well that's a good thing that is a good thing so all right absolutely
okay moving on then um uh 4.1 uh consent business 4.1 is approve Amendment for additional funding for Minnesota Department of Health Community Health Board Grant project for response sustainability sustainability an additional
38,000 and that was on page 43 Emily do you have something to um highlights we applied for some additional funds that were remaining from the fiscal year 2024 uh budget for this Grant and were awarded um the additional $ 38349 uh for additional projects so just
uh seeking approval to accept those Grant dollars now I think that was there's pretty short time that has to spend it by June yes yes and I think I I inquired I think Miss hty provided that some additional um radios or something
maybe purch yes we will be um coming back with some more information about that our next meeting okay all right so we would need a motion to I'll make a motion to approve um the amendment for additional funding for misso Department of Health I'll second he we have a
motion by commissioner vag second by commissioner Meer to approve the amended additional funding for Minnesota Department of Health any discussion all those in favor say i i poose n um I do have one thing that was in there
um page 47 number 11 they threw in voter registration in a public health Grant and I thought that was kind of interesting I mean are we in compliance with all the I I Look to attorney sonan are we in compliance with all the voter
regist I mean and I'll leave it maybe before I sign it I'll ask you to verify it um it just seems strange but it was on page 47 sorry printed copy in front of me is is it the grants Grant details yeah I mean
some of the things they throw in these grants those in the state of Minnesota reading what they're sending out or well it's kind of like you know the data practices too yeah okay I mean it just see what I'm talking I don't have any intention to use this grant funds for
voter registration yeah I know I would agree but I thought if we're not in compliance then maybe we won't get that Grant either I don't C me off it caught me off guard okay 4.2 approved response sustainability Grant spending for mass casualty
reunification Community training and um Emily again so this is actually funds from the same Grant we uh just accepted additional funds for um this is for a community training event um focus on reunification of a mass casualty
event our plans are to have it within this a school system um likely Carter is going to host us and it'll be for up to 100 members of the community to work through a mass casualty training through I love you guys as the organization that we would be working with
questions I guess I always ask a question who vetted this I love you tough guys or whatever they a nationally known organization that is very well known for this typic area okay unfortunately though we have to pay travel expenses from Colorado um the
total quote is includes all of their costs Mr Clinger yeah Mr Clinger has talked about them before to Emy so I'm working with Public Health on this they're based out of Colorado but their instructors are all over the
country the one one of the two were looking at getting for this lives in Sparta actually so not a huge commit not a huge commit mute and uh vetting them regionally we've had them in Rochester the last two years uh and we wanted to
bring them locally so our local schools could work together with just our local schools to build those relationships and have that training in the event of a a bad event happening and so who who is going to be invited how are we going to
come up with 100 people um we're going to start with all of our local schools public private Charter Schools uh law enforc should be involved because they'd all be working together uh so I hope to push and fill it with our wona County
Schools if not we'll go regionally from there but so Carter's hosting but it's not exclusive to that no they just offered us a space so that's just and our universities are they part of it too or this is uh geared at K through2 okay but if they I mean they could get some
good out of it and any school dictates kind of who they would like to see go or there's like a maxim two or four or something um we're we're hoping uh that we don't have to limit it uh because obviously they'll have limits of Staffing budget that sort of thing but
if one school tried to send 75 people yeah all the teachers or something yeah we'd ask them to step back and make sure we got people from everybody but M vagle uh it's a very sad topic but also a very important training I'll move to approve the response sustainability Grant I'll
second it hey we have a motion by commissioner vagle second by commissioner eling to approve the response sustainability grant for mass casualty reunification Community training any further questions if you got some open spots so
you let County boards know have okay all right that would be that would be beneficial thank you all right uh any other questions or comments all those in favor say I iose nay approved right thank you Emily thank you Ben
General business anything else that public health we need to know all right then I guess uh I'll move to adjourn okay second I have a motion by commissioner Meer second by commissioner olon to adjourn the Community Health Board any discussion all in favor say
I okay now we got six five six minutes and Marine we have evening everybody even nice to see a room full of active citizens participating in democracy in our Republic not a republic
in our republ in our Republic yes our Republic okay we always start our meetings with a public comment um and people are given two minutes to speak and we will I think Heidi will be able to put the two-minute up on the the computer um the monitor so you know when
your two minutes is and I do ask I know we got a room full and we got a lot of lot of opinions and a lot of people here to share those opinions and we greatly appreciate that but I do ask you to be respectful of all uh the citizens in the room um and uh uh please keep your
comments concise and and um to the point and we will take a record Miss H you document who who's speaking and everything so when you come to the podium you ask to give your name and your address and then you have two minutes and it if a lot of people we I I guess first of all the board we usually
allow like 10 minutes for this but in the room full I think we'll allow everybody to speak that wants to but I would ask that you be prompt and maybe make a small line behind each other um so that the the time moves and people are in line to to come to the podium so
we'll open up the public comment who would like to be uh first to address the Winona County Board tonight maybe I'm not going to have speaker I anticipated I would thank you hi good evening my name
is Bonnie hammock 805 e2nd Street um I find the timing of the city encouraging the county to vote right now um regarding the joint police facility interesting for a few reasons um we've heard publicly for the last year that
County board members want to get a second opinion on the estimate for repairs on the LEC before making this decision um because the bkv estimate is outlandish frankly um as far as we know that second opinion on the estimate has
not come in so it finds I find the timing of this interesting um also um sorry I didn't write down my comments I've been thinking about things for a while um I think that with budget
shortfalls and record high rate tax increases this conversation's a little offensive frankly um I've recently read in the paper about the County Attorney discussing how jails become the landing grounds for mental health and addiction issues how there
was a County Board member quoted recently talking about fences at the top of the hill instead of jails at the bottom and to me that sounds like an understanding that carceral Solutions are not effective for public health
issues um so that being said spending Millions on a police facility is not helpful to our community it's not what we need um I think we've been hearing us say for years what we need are non-or of mental health and Addiction Services
housing the things that actually serve our community and keep us safe so I urge you to not invest with the city on the joint police facility thank you thank you hello uh Katie Mueller freet tag
26743 County Road 15 in Winona I've come before the County Board and the city council several times to voice my opposition in prioritizing police spending over our community's needs like Bonnie mentioned and I come here today to do the same I don't consider building
a new multi-million dollar police station a a necessity for winana and in fact I would consider signing into this agreement with the city to spend the $7 million grant that they've been given by the state complicit in defunding
services that actually provide Public Safety fire and ambulance in times of Crisis and climate catastrophe the government often fails to help and support the people that is playing out in real time in California with the wildfires in North Carolina
still reeling with destruction from helane Helen hurricane Helen and elsewhere as the government almost completely abandons the people on these times instead of prioritizing the billions that they're spending in genocide fun funding and
bolstering police spending it ties into wiona in a very obvious way for me as we see the municipal government trying to use that $7.5 million grant that the city is being given um and prioritizing it to spend it on a new police station instead of a
fire and ambulance station which has had little to no discussion um the grant I'm referring to has language that absolutely permits for it to be used in either way but the city is pushing for the cop spending what happens in
Winona what what happens when Winona experiences yet another year of drought and the risk of fires become more prevalent how's a new police station going to keep us safe I just experienced a real close call myself of out of control F fire field field fire this
year um it was the volunteer fire that came and worked throughout the night to make sure our house didn't burn down and our neighbor houses didn't burn down um so I so my property taxes just came in the mail and they already include spending for the multi-million dollar
jail that I didn't want either so I would urge I'm here tonight to urge the county to go back to chadel and the rest of the city and say no you can't pressure us into this and the community doesn't want it and I ask that maybe you consider holding a public hearing before making any Brash decisions without
public input thanks for hearing my comments tonight thank you oh well we will yeah we'll acknowledge them we we'll do the in in-house need to get in the meeting oh um can we ask Heidi to allow them in yep
we'll work on technology thank you for bringing that to our attention yes sir hi my name is Samuel fory I live at 410 Center Street in Winona um I'm a artist and culture Bearer in the community and it is literally my job to see things from a
bird's eye view see it with heart see it with purpose and see it with care and it is really devastating to even have the possibility of considering $23 million being put into a police station that
literally sets my whole nervous system on fire and as my job as a person in the community I want to inform you that there are many other ways to benefit a community with $23
million as an artist I know that it might seem like frr to support the community and not just put it towards police guns ammunition but
Housing Community Resources food shelter these are all things that we need to consider first and foremost before we turn to something else that we already have so thank you thank you m um if you
could communicate to the citizens that there is not a waiting room so they might be in the incorrect link okay there is not a waiting room okay there we're advised that in our uh technology system there is not a waiting room so check the link that you have and
the link would have been on our County website um so double check the link and see if you can't get that corrected thank you yes ma'am uh my name is Joan Heckman uh 463 soue Street I have lived in Winona for coming on like a decade
and a half and there were AB absolutely problems in this city and none of those are a cop deficit we have some of the cheapest housing uh single housing units in the entire city were destroyed for
some parking lot or something who cares uh some kind of parking lot all right there's a bus that doesn't run on Sundays barely runs in the afternoon and comes late on Saturdays because it can't afford to do anything else we've got a warming Center and a day Center that
have a 5H hour gap in between the closing of and the opening of the other uh in this weather 5 hours is plenty of time to freeze to death on a park bench we have more than enough problems uh without you know taking into
consideration how many more cops we can put on the street that's never been something the city needed um $23 million I have written down that could fund 2,000 homes for a year um 4,000 families
Healthcare or uh 3,000 children's child care for a year uh all of these are things that I would rather have I've never once in my entire life been interested in seeing more cops in my town ever and I think most people
feel the exact same way thank you my name is John Hardesty LR of 23273 blackberry Road in Winona here and I have lived here since I was 2 years old so about nearing on two decades now and
I have seen this city go through a lot of changes uh but I believe that one thing that does not need to change is the police presence I already see them everywhere uh and that is not if if we're looking to deter crime that's not
a good way to go about it the best way to go about deterring crime is by getting rid of the getting rid of the uh situ situations and conditions in which crime is necessary for individuals poverty
starvation uh housing insecurity all these are very very important issues and there are many many homeless people on our streets who are lacking the basic necessities for
survival and like Joan before me said it's very important that the uh warming and day centers are kept up nicely and that that and that that Gap is eliminated or somehow there's another thing to do for them in
that 5H hour place we do not want people to be freezing to death to be starving to death and to be having to live in the elements especially during a time like this and I would say that we do not need this police station thank you thank you
uh my name is Scott moonix I live at 156 East Broadway in wiona uh over the last five years in discussions about the new now completed jail and plans for the new police station we hear over and over again the rhetorics of inevitability we just have to build it these are the
cards we were dealt we have no choice but to move forward but that inevitability is an illusion there is always a choice and you will make that choice tonight it is not inevitable will be your doing and probably your
undoing after years of opposition this board decided to spend 30 million dollar in a huge new jail that no one needed or wanted besides you in law enforcement and now you have a huge debt in a jail that's only has about 20 people in it for its nearly 90 beds you wasted $30
million that will burden this community for decades and you are here now deciding to add even more debt for more criminalization and more oppression of the most vulnerable when the city proposed the demolition of the East End Rec Center we heard the same rhetorics of
inevitability it's the best choice these are the cards we were dealt this is what the Architects told us but that decision was halted because this community the people in this room said no you can say no to another $30 million boondoggle you will not be getting more
funding from the state and if you spend the $7.5 million already granted on a police station there's nothing left for essential fire and ambulance services unless you're willing to add another $5 to10 million onto the $60 million tally you've acred for discipline and
Punishment if you move ahead with the city it is inevitable that this community will be severely burdened by debt for Generations it is inevitable that you will have little to no resources or motivation to provide funding for what this community really needs and begs for housing Mental Health
Services education and addressing Domestic and Sexual Violence it is your decision it is not inevitable you can say no and that would be the good and just and moral thing to do it would be true leadership to choose your fate rather than bend to the Fate handed to
you by others thank you thank you hello I'm Leon W hackerson uh I am currently residing 700 Terrace Heights I would like to pose a little bit more of a a moral perspective on this rather than focusing on the
monetary number seeing as I haven't lived in Winona for very long from my experiences punitive Justice is comparable to pulling weeds by their leaves for a while it'll appear that there are no weeds left only for them to continue to spring up why do we still question why this is we can brand
crime as evil we can brand the members of our community as evil we can ignore the problem that is the lack of resources for the needy by investing in more weed whackers but not but by not pulling these problems by The Roots people will continue to suffer unseen and unheard invest in these people not
in their punishment thank you uh my name is TAA Peterson uh 268 Lafayette Street in Winona uh I am a student at Winona State University and I transferred here two years ago I'll graduate in May and I'm
excited to use my social degree Social Work degree in Winona initially I didn't have high expectations when I was looking for a place to complete my four-year degree however I have come to realize how much this town offers even with its small size this is the town where I want to live and work as a
future social worker I appreciate all the services that Winona provides which are much more extensive than I would typically expect from a town of the size we have a social worker who accompanies the police an initiative that has only recently gain popularity however it sounds me that winon is considering allocating funding
which is desperately needed in other areas to something that is not essential our focus should be on reducing the need for police intervention we should focus on a new new approach where police are not the primary First Responders instead social workers and mental health professionals should take the lead if we invest in our community and its people
we will see a natural decrease in crime as desperate individuals and those experiencing a mental health crisis will receive the support they need those $7.5 million given to the project should should instead be given to the fire department or ambulance services as suggested the 25 million estimated um
could go to various other programs for those in need I have seen many individuals struggle to afford their basic necessities and gaps in the services that they rely upon Winona has begun its commitment to mental health and prioritizing people but we have a long way to go I hope the council has the same vision for w Winona and rejects
the plan to build a new police station let us invest in our community and its people instead thank you um Mary Joe clinker 156 East Broadway uh you've heard me before I'm going to be here again asking you to prioritize
the needs of the people over that of policing as my friends have all said as well I want you to tell the city no to building a bigger police station and use your political power to collaborate for a different future together there are no more masterful ways to bend rhetoric and induce your compassion to a moral
practice of spending your time on budgets meetings and strategies to address the root causes of injustices and suffering that we see in housing and health inequities locally rather than that of policing and jails to provide us with what we need to survive the attacks of which we are currently sustaining
under the new threats to our community which includes increased anti-immigration racism um attacks on trans and queer folks and increased police militarization nationally we invite you to help us to create a safer Community for us all with re real resources so
this evening I will bore you with a poem one that community members here have red at the site of the jail when it was once grass a place that we played and met with our neighbors I will read a poem that imagines the world that elected leaders refuse to build it was called
after abolition by Kyle Carrero Lopez prisons and cops survive only in the tales for the young like the twin atlantis's or two drowned boogeymen a cops as harmless a Halloween getup as any monster while a prisoner costumes as
taboo as a slave one now that schools teach what makes them kin a prison is a far off past of a structure turned Free Housing each cell wall knocked to a sand castle ruin halls reshaped and redyed in green paints former floor plans carved
out like Shores into spacious homes laundy and air condition a given in each home through prisons and cops won't be found anywhere our youths still learn about them in school and they know what they mean how they look and how they
function and what it will take to stop them if they return with new names thank you thank you am Marissa swensson Ruiz my address is 522 and 1 half maseman Street in Winona uh this is my first time speaking
here I did not write a speech ahead of time because I didn't even know where to start with one um the last 3 years not this but the last 3 years before that I coordinated the Winona Community warming Center so working directly with the
homeless population in Winona watching how it grows watching how it struggles and interacting with police oneon-one um in a variety of different situations I've had plenty of conversations with police officers where they
just they feel almost a guilt because there's nowhere else for this person to go um so we the Frontline workers with homelessness in Winona County are not the only ones feeling the extent of the housing crisis we also do have to keep
law enforcement um involved um but part of making their job easier is going to be more housing um that's also going to cut down on crime it's going to cut down on you know theft of people breaking into cars
trying to survive you know winter nights um yeah I trust that you are aware that the warming Center is being removed from its current space this uh spring and does
not have a follow-up place to stay so there is no backup plan Catholic charities does not have a backup plan for where they are going to house the warming Center this next fall so I would ask that you keep that in mind um last winter alone we had 86 Unique
Individuals that came through our warming Center um that's not a small number we're the only wiona County overnight shelter um so yeah just budgeting wise would ask that you just keep that in mind um the day Center was already
struggling with budgets because it was started through the American Rescue plan and that is over so they were already stretching to make ends meet and keep that open um homelessness crisis may need the
County's support just want to put that bug in your ear thank you thank you you oh my gosh I'm too short for this okay hello um my name is olua deara dza um 6:30 Franklin
Street okay I am a fourth year Social Work student at WSU so yes my words may be taken lightly but please do listen various research have shown that investing in the community leads to a happier Community I did an internship
actually at the day and warming Center and I watched as a resident died out in the street a couple Falls ago on a parking bench people experiencing homelessness have to escape police prosecution for simply trying to rest this money could
be put into affordable housing that can give the city what it wants not seeing homelessness on the streets giving police more money to continue racial profiling that is ingrained in their systems harass the oppressed not take the words of survivors seriously and
criminalize not being able to afford a home and more is not what a town like Winona should be like this land was taken from the indigenous people the least that can be done is take a page from the indigenous people's book to care for the land and its Community
thank you thank you you hello my name is Alex pachy I currently live at 630 Franklin Street I'll be moving to 122 Center Street in June where I hope to make a more permanent residence out of Winona when I think about making a more permanent residence out of Winona I certainly don't think
about more cops on the street with more guns I think about firefighters who might be able to stop a fire from consuming a whole block of houses thank you you hi my name is Emily shepardson I live at 116 West Broadway Street
otherwise known as the Washington Crossing housing project um I just want to say that uh a common um feedback that I've received via email when reaching out to some of you and others is that
really there's there's no fixing or at least there's no easily fixing the current LEC and specifically the evidence room right that we've heard several times I imagine you've heard several times of the evidence room the evidence room the evidence room right if we're willing to get as creative about
the evidence room as we were to consider a gun range as we were to consider heated parking as we were to consider options that are luxuries then why can't we find a creative solution to fixing the evidence room as well there's plenty of vacancies
around downtown and I know it would be less convenient than having it in the same building but what I'm suggesting is that using this money to explore other options is clearly what the community is asking you to do so I I
urge you to recall what has been brought to you today when you are going forward and making these decisions and again a public hearing is necessary before you move forward spending this community's money thank you thank you good evening uh my name is Penelope mace
and I live at7 West Third right here at the Kensington and I've only lived here I just moved down here less than a year ago uh from the Twin Cities and have watched from my window which faces you know Fourth Street watch as they tore
down all those nice old houses there which I'm not sure actually if that's going to be a parking lot I I actually heard from someone that it was going to be another block of luxury apartments similar to the ones on the other side of Johnson there which I hear and I sort of
said really more luxury apartments in downtown Winona good grief who will rent them well I was told there's a waiting list for them um you know people well-paid people who are working at some of the various concerns here um are
signing on for them maybe that's true I have no idea but I do know that that I go on Facebook on a discussion group that is called something like Winona neighbors helping neighbors or something like that and frequently I see an entry
like this one help I am a woman who fled an abusive relationship with three little kids under the age of seven staying with a friend it's a bad situation I can only work part-time because I can't afford child care where can I possibly Live Well GE sister I
don't know because you know rents appear to be going up as more luxury housing is moving in uh and now we're talking about 25 what is it 23 25 million for a new office building for police which I don't begrudge the police having nice
bathrooms and meeting rooms and whatever they need but you know there are priorities anybody who has a Works Space would love to have gleaming new meeting rooms and a nice new cafeteria and and everything else but sometimes we just have to make doe when there are other
priorities so since this seems to be a contentious issue uh maybe schedule a public meeting where more of the public can actually be there and voice an opinion it would obviously have to be in the evening and be well advertised uh so that everyone could
attend thank you thank you thank you hello my name is Claire scotsburg I live at 578 East 8th Street I moved to Monona over a decade ago and I was so happy to see the community engagement people I recognized
from the pub or just on the street and in the grocery store run for city council just being active in the community I was never able to to finish my college
degree because I escaped domestic violence there weren't a lot of resources for housing I was stuck in a lease few years after that some of my sority sisters had problems and they left the
town there just there just wasn't the resources you get a list and the Bethany house at the time was you know 10 n years ago was down there just you got a list that existed 20 years ago to this State and they just you call and call and nothing was
open I we all know my late sister the story of what happened there you can hear the community begging you for other options and Alternatives and I hope that you hear us when
we just ask for help with basic needs thank you thank Youk you hello I'm Jessica Weiss at 135 Lafayette um what is Public Safety the public includes all our neighbors and our community our neighbors are who are
unhoused college students undocumented families of all kinds and everyone in between safety is what keeps us safe pretty self-explain explanatory you would think at a time where people are fearing for their lives and safety a new poli police station is not what embodies
Public Safety when we think of all the people of Winona what would be true Public Safety would be if we think of everyone in our community all of us here have wonderful ideas that we've told you of where to put that money that contributes to Public Safety such as
that joint EMS and fire station repairing the existing fire station that was built in the 1950s uh more funding towards the Advocacy Center for survivors of domestic violence fixing the existing schools which were built in the 1920s and 30s for the safety of the children that
attend and work and that and the staff that work there as well as affordable housing I believe these few ideas among the many you have heard prior to me can Enlighten you on what our community actually wants I'm baffled that there is consideration of putting money towards
this new police station when so many of us are struggling to make ends meet a new police station does not help us it actually hurts all of us uh Public Safety is not cops it has not been cops and Public Safety is taking care of our
neighbors in our community thank you thank you you hi my name is Tova strange I live at 174 East Fifth Street I've seen you all before you've seen me um I appreciate you guys for giving everybody in the room an opportunity to speak um that's really appreciated and hasn't always
been the the case um so that's amazing thank you um I appreciate Jess specifically for bringing up the ages of the school buildings that we have here I find it really really really disappointing that we are prioritizing the comfort of police over children who
are in schools all day every day um that's a concern to me as somebody who went to the schools here I've been a student here I'm now a professional here in the helping Fields I've seen firsthand interpersonally professionally and in my friendships the ways that
housing insecurity domestic violence and other issues with just making ends meet as has been said here multiple times impede a life and make it impossible to live and I think that when we're making choices to prioritize policing over
those people and over those experiences I think that's sad so I'm really excited for you guys to take the opportunity to make a decision to move forward a different future um that really prioritizes those resources that you guys have repeatedly supported in the past so thank you thank
you we're going to go um online and is there anybody online that would like to address the County board I would okay and just identify yourself
please my name is Mandy johnsgard I live at 5318 West 6 Street s we can't can Mandy yes uh we have a real week can you speak more directly into your microphone or something um why don't you let someone
else go first and I will try to alleviate the problem all right thank you uh is there anyone else online that would like to address the County board I would if you can hear me uh we can uh hi Levante Thompson 7173 Street
stre well know in Minnesota um all I have to say is I did not go to high school here I went to middle school here I remember the way the Middle School looked brand new when I went there and I came back here to Winona and I think
2017 and I thought hey man I never went to the high school here so I just went took a stroll the high school my girlfriend's siblings went there and I found school that looked like it hadn't been changed and updated or had any support since like
1999 uh I found a stair case that was bricked off just instead of I don't know fixing a busted pipe I guess so I just want to Echo what others have already said you have real issues within your community um where you know you could
help children want to actually go to school because no one wants to go to a school that is dilapidated but instead yet again here we are having a conversation a about how you guys want to fund cops because they're cold and need an underground warm parking garage
that's all thank you um Mandy let's try again Mandy your your mic is muted hello yes I'm sorry I was not prepared for
that can you hear me go ahead my name is yes now we don't we don't hear anything uh is I'll ask apologize technology sometimes behooves us uh I'll ask three more times is is there anybody else in the audience that would like to address the County Board yeah I would uh
my name is Gandy B I'm at 301 East 4th Street I just went we have a very weak connection can you speak directly into your microphone yep how's this hello hear me can you guys
here can you hear me hello sorry we cannot hear you hold on can you guys hear me now yes yes 301 East Fourth street I just wanted to chim in and say uh you know if you
guys look at any public data there is no support for a police uh station people have been asking for uh Health and Human Services and places to live and ways to make it easier to exist in Winona uh it's well documented I do not understand why we're doing this again uh that's all
thank you thank you did you say your name again you're name sir my name was Andy Andy okay we got it Andy all right thank
you Andy uh Mandy can we make it work uh I'm gonna give it one more try here uh my Bluetooth won't seem to connect go ahead um I usually when I stand up and
speak to you guys I have done a lot of research and I have a lot of Statistics to share with you um this time I do not I just want to say um we are dealing with a lot right now
as far as Social Services getting cut um a lot of people have spoken on domestic violence which as you know unfortunately the police do not prevent they only step in after something
violent has happened and so I just really want to say just please please consider what other areas of Public Safety we can invest in in Winona B for the public record could you tell us your full name and address yes
my name is Amanda johnsgard I live at 58 excuse me that's 5318 West 6 Street in good viiew right thank you thank you very much uh and so we did it twice last time is there anybody else in the audience or
online that would like to address the County Board okay see none is there I'll I'll I'll add my in from online uh can you hear me all right yes yeah we need your name and address please yep TL Jordan
1545 Homer Road Number 103 um I similarly a lot of people who spoke before said a lot of the things that I wanted to so I just want to reiterate the number of Creative Solutions that our community has brought forward on the
spending of this money and especially you know given not only the recent fires in Los Angeles but the recent burning down of a bar in our community perhaps putting money towards our Police Department to make sure that they are prepared for future fires and other uh
climate catastrophes is a better way to spend money than to police who ultimately do not make our community safer and add harm to our community we need housing we need to help our houseless population we need Social Services and we need a fire department that can actually operate and
has you know maybe like a modom of comfort like air conditioning in the summer um so similar to everyone else I do not support a new police station and any further uh movement on this needs a public hearing uh thank you right thank
you all right we will close the public comment at this time uh greatly appreciate everybody taking the time to come and express your thoughts and and being very concise that that is greatly appreciated and I think the whole board does does hear and and wanted to hear from um from the citizens so thank you
for taking your time to come to our meeting um I don't we will be discussing if some people want to leave please go ahead we'll continue with our business all right uh item six approval of the County board meeting minutes from
January 7th so move second we have a motion by commissioner eling second and by commissioner Meyer to approve the County Board January 7th meeting minutes any discussion all those in favor say I I oppose nay approved um item seven acknowledge receipt of the approved
committee meeting minutes and that is the Whitewater joint Powers board October 17th so move I'll second that we have a motion by commissioner olon second by commissioner vagle to acknowledge the receipt any further discussion all those in favor say I I
those May P acknowledge receipt um item eight consent comments and approval of the agenda uh commissioner vagley do you have any two items at the end okay two okay commissioner Ellen um just I'd like to pull 93 just for a little clarification at first I thought I
understood but I got reading it again and I just okay so I can't hear oh oh yeah sorry yeah just give it a second pulling 93 so let's make pull 93 I just got to I just want a little clarification on that okay so should we make that
10.0 that works okay 10.0 is 9.3 all right anything else uh just a comment at the end okay Olson nothing for me commissioner Meyer request for board action at the end okay administrator halty nothing
Madam chair okay attorney son one item okay all right and I'll reserve the right to have a comment thank you so with uh the amended agenda a motion would be in order I'll move to accept
the agenda as it was amended second okay we have a motion to accept the a um agenda as amended by commissioner Meyer second by commissioner eling any discussion all those in favor say i n okay approved so miss hty will you that
list indeed 9.1 approve County Board appointments to 2025 boards and committies 9.2 approve out of state travel for elected official 9.3 was C 9.4 approved lg220 gambling
application for exempt permit Ridgeway Elementary School PTA 9.5 approved temporary on sale liquor license storm sporting events 9.6 approve Amendment for additional funding from Minnesota Department of Health Community Health
Board Grant project for response sustainability 9.7 approve response sustainability Grant spending for mass casualty re re re I'm sorry reunification Community while training
uh 9.8 approve renewal of purchase of service and business associate agreements with Midwest monitoring 9.9 approv state of Minnesota Department of Human Services Grant contract for respit services for children and their families
9.10 approve renewal of purchase of service and business associate agreements with hawaa Valley mental health center for mental health services 9.11 appoint Winona County Regional railroad Authority Board of Commissioners 9.12 approve prioritized
Bridge replacement list resolution 9.13 approved joint Powers agreement ment with Bureau of Criminal apprehension for federal background checks 9.14 adopt Minnesota Merit system equal opportunity and affirmative action guidelines and
9.15 confirm payment of dispersements move to approve the consent business as red I'll second time I have a motion by commissioner Meyer second by commissioner vaguely to approve the consent business as read any further
discussion I was that one point we just approved a bunch of of uh potentially Bridge projects and I heard in the um proposed Governor's budget there is no money for replacement of Bridge Project so the word is if you come across a Winona County bridge I don't know if you drive fast and hope you get across it
safely or what the key is du's a hazard style pleas so I mean we approve things we want to do things but we're at the mercy of the uh state and federal funding absolutely true okay all right so all those in favor of the consent agenda say I iOS nay approve comment on
that though but if it wasn't for that little sales tax we have going on that is making the difference in this County and it's bad enough the way it is but if it wasn't for that it'd be we'd be really hurting so we're very fortunate to as taxpayers to all be funding that because it it does go a long ways and
and I have a County Road that's rapidly moving up the list of the worst roads we went on so for those that don't know three number County roads are funded solely by the county two numbered County roads are funded through Casa County and state aid Highway funds so what was alluded to is that that Casa money is in
question and that's about 90% of the funding that we have so um and then of course we could take our local dollars to put them towards that also so doesn't go far these but it does not go far no so okay so we had uh commissioner elen
had pulled 9.3 which is approval of a resolution to correct air and setting up Tiff district for taxes payable in 2024 well just reading through so may yes thank you um so just reading through that of course that's uh right in my
district and um I I didn't pay attention as to what the building was and I just thought it was an overpayment and underpayment that I then I get to look at it I just want to understand what happened what because that's a long term that's one of the first buildings established up there what what I I I should have emailed but I I didn't catch
it later it's all right um so one of the Tiff districts in St Charles um one of the nine-year Tiff districts originally this Tiff got it was up and then there was a split where part of the part we had to remove a parcel from it and at that time it's my assumption that they
switched it from 8 years thinking there's eight years left as in they owned I'm sorry just to like know as in they owned another lot that got sold off or correct there was the original plan for this Tiff district there was a lot that got sold off it was no no longer eligible to be in the Tiff District so
it got removed and at that time the Tiff setup in our tax system was changed to 8 years I'm assuming that it their assumption when they set it up I wasn't here at that time um was that all right there's 8 years left so when they updated the Tiff and recertified it they
set it for eight years well when we get did tax C this year or for payable 24 nothing was captured for them which this should have been or 24 should have been their last year of increment um so I've provided what would have been captured
had it been calculated with them capturing Tiff um so in summary nothing was captured for them this year or last year and it should have been this is correcting that error
so we're paying this back to St Charles it it's to the Tiff District not yes we pay out Tiff District to the city of St Charles most tiffs we have one that we pay to semra but most tiffs we pay the city and then the city disperses it to
the Tiff District so yes we would be paying it to the city of St Charles City of St Charles would then disperse it to the Tiff district and if there's any overage in payment um based on their plan they would then give the funds back to us and we would redistribute it like I do property taxes based on rates so
this is based on the building site not the land and it's one parcel correct I'd have to go look I don't recall off the top of my head if this tip is just one parcel yeah it was tool and die and there that parcel up there so okay I just I was trying to get a I
don't I don't know if I've ever seen anything like that happen so most tis run for our our residential not commercial like this this Tiff um was eligible to run for 9 years there was an error in my department that I I didn't catch that caused it to not capture any
Tiff for 2024 um the taxpayers have benefited because if we're not capturing that Tiff then the rates are calculated based on the whole value of the property not the beginning value of that property so the taxpayers have already realized the
benefits because in in way of a reduced tax rate um but we do need to correct the problem and it um if I could then this is it for that the nine years is up after correct they've already sent me
the decertification form um with language pending this board conclusion so this that Tiff will end as the end of the year 2024 after we make this payment I think that was the first building that went in
there I don't recall i' have to go dig your history books anything else Tiff up there is going to be coming due now there are there's more than one Tiff in St Charles yeah Tiff districts yes but I'm just say up in that District
it's just telling me it's agent oh okay all right so motion to approve uh uh what was 9.3 is now 10.0 I'll second all right motion made by commissioner Olen seconded by commissioner eling to approve the resolution to correct the air and setting up Tiff districts for
taxes table in 2024 any further discussion um just do do we monitor these so it doesn't happen again I have checked every single one of our tiffs and they are all set up correctly in our new tax system so that won't happen again yes
good yes so all those in favor say I n okay approved thank you item uh 10.1 approve recommendation to appoint County Assessor and did Madam chair Commissioners um we are happy to
announce uh that we are recommending Katherine fret uh for the position of County Assessor we are still working through the um pre-employment process however we are at the stage of needing County Board approval um the update on
the wage is that there is a conditional at step six which is $442 something2 by-weekly that equates to 11 15,18
annually okay Mr vagley uh to get it on the table I'll move to approve the recommendation to appoint I apologize Katherine FR Catherine fret the county the new County Assessor okay we have a motion by commissioner vaguely second by commissioner Meyer to
appoint again Catherine fret fret f r e tte okay fret um any further discussion um I did sit in on the interview she comes with a lot of I think very valuable experience um we always can benefit from somebody that
worked for Olstead County because they're they're neighbors but they're good neighbors and they're good at sharing information and she's worked with the system that we're currently using and and um will I think be a valid valued asset over 20 years of experience right yeah and she lives in the county
which I think is pretty awesome too so that's always beneficial for somebody to live in the county that has to deal with County residents she told us that this was her goal yeah when she was a little kid and I say who has a goal of becoming a county assessor that seems she works in Houston
fil did that because our job was mil and we'll catch some Flack for that I know I will we steal each other's good people so all right um all those uh in favor of the appointment say i i n okay approved
um 10.2 discuss approve deny pre-design phase of the joint Public Safety facility and planning study with qu mcy Architects that started on page 170 Madam chair commissioner I'm Chuck Elliot County finance director
um and Moren um kind of brought me into the OR administrator uh hty brought me into this and said uh you know do what you can to kind of put a business T business case together to support the the the decision or the recommendation that's in
front of you today so I think I'm going to spend a a little bit of time first on the business case before I come back to the recommendation and the request for board action um because I think you know what's in front of you uh the recommendation that's in front of you today is kind of like the fifth inning
of the baseball game and so I kind of want to bring it back to the the lead off of the first inning to just sort of level set where we're at in this process for decisionmaking um and I think there is about 185 pages in the in the agenda
that lays out 22 separate meetings uh task force updates RFB presentations estimates and studies that have already taken place so I think most of you have already you know been deeply involved in this and took place in some if not all
of those things in the past um but to again bring it back to the problem statement when I think of these things I think of them in terms of business cases which is what's the problem what are your Solutions what are the or potential Solutions what is the cost benefit of
each one and you know how does it all shake out and when I keep score Financial score on these things that's what I'm going to do because until we're done with whatever it is that we do I want to be able to present that stuff to you and tell you what it's going to cost and you know what the benefits of it are
you know to the best of my ability but the problem statement you know the law enforcement center was constructed 40 years ago can't read my writing here and has had very few upgrades in minimal maintenance over the years
as a result the mechanical systems are end of life the old jail structure is still in place and the existing space needs updating and as we know it's currently occupied by the Winona Police Department the sheriff and his headquarters and the Emergency
Management and Dispatch Center that's what's currently operating in that building right now uh the only upgrade updates performed in the building are the remodel to the basement and the Emergency Management in the Dispatch Center which occurred about two years
ago the rest of it is pretty much the way it was built 40 years ago oh excuse me we removed the gun range many years ago that was a undertaking okay you wouldn't have that no I no absolutely don't and when I walked through it I got
a tour about a week ago and it you know part of it looks like what you'd see in Mayberry RFD from true you know Andy Griffith era but uh that's that's what's going on in that building now and I see that that's the problem so what we're talking about tonight is one of the
options and one of the solutions potential solutions to that problem but not the only one so and the current status other than what I just gave you is we budgeted 750,000 this year for emergency repairs only to that facility
so we're not going to spend anything if nothing breaks but it's there and in the budget and we've talked and heard about the grant that the city of Nona has been awarded which would pay for design and land acquisition related to a shared
facility and they're asking the county to decide if we want to partner with them on that and that's part of what you're being asked to decide tonight so I'll just step through the three potential Solutions and of course there are infinite variations of each one of these and many that I didn't even think
of inp put on here but these are the three that I think are kind of the obvious ones so option one is what is in front of you tonight in the RB the request for board action which is conduct pre-design with the city of Winona and then concurrently conduct a
study of the cost to remodel the LEC the law enforcement center so take what you learn from the predesign and apply it to you know the law enforcement center and what can be done there that's basically option one and I give you timelines some pros
and cons and costs of course we don't know everything yet option two uh do nothing and only fix what breaks which is kind of where we sit right now uh which is you know the 750 that I mentioned which in the budget which
we're only going to touch if something breaks uh and again timeline costs pros and cons to that one and then option three which is all in on remodeling the law enforcement center as it exists don't
participate in the pre-design and I've given men the timeline costs pros and cons of that one as we know it sitting here today so the real quick point if anyone is following along either in the audience or at home we're on page 172 so what Mr Elliot is
referring to if you're follow following along the again the the agenda is online I apologize one page no I'm sorry I should have said that in the beginning um so that brings back to the request for board action which really is option
one asking you to uh discuss approve deny uh one of those three I guess uh the predesigned phase of the joint Public Safety facility and planning and the planning study with
Klein McCarthy Architects so kind of two two things there but that's that's what's in front of you for uh potential action that's that's it um I want to start off by first of all thanking um the city the county and
all the staff who worked um and have been working on this the task force goes back correct if I'm wrong M whole TI your sh about a year and a half we've been having Joint Task Force meetings um I want to thank specifically ccil member George Borowski council member Jeff haa
I want to thank County um City administrator Chad ubel um fellow County Commissioner Marshall Ward Sheriff Gan police chief will Tom Williams um Aaron lefy has been there I want to thank all the staff who spent a lot of time on this this is a um a complicated complex
issue with all kinds of overlaping circle so I want to thank all the staff and and Miss um for helping get us to this point um what I'd like to do is um in a minute I'm want to well I'll do it now I I like to make a motion to proceed
with option one which is the conduct to move on to the pre-design phase and concurrently conduct a study of cost to remodel the LEC um so it be option one on page 172 part of the reasons why is Public Service public safety is one of
the core functions of the county all the people who spoke I hear you um everything that you're saying um uh so many wonderful points just a few of those um the 5H hour gap and between the warming Center and the day Center in 2019 I worked on a handful of meetings
to close the gap back then 2019 um the war ing Center is dear near and dear in my heart I was involved um not in the very beginning but right after it began on the steering committee had a volunteer team have volunteered there many times all those issues the Advocacy
Center and supporting victims of domestic abuse incredibly important and um the issue of Public Safety is one of the core functions of County government Health and Human Services um roads and bridges um and Public Safety um we have
looked at this issue I think it's it would be it's um I think it would be foolish not to pursue move to the pre-design phase because and this is contingent upon State funding which may or may not happen but I think unless we try for it it for sure won't happen if
this option were to take place the county share would be $4.5 million the city would also match that but again that's contingent upon additional State funding which may or may not happen but I think it's important that we um we try to make that happen that's the biggest
bang for the buck um and concurrently that we also continue to gather information in case that option does not work to remodel the LEC so going back to my original motion I'd like to um uh move to we that we approve option
one a motion do we have a second not yet maybe a little discussion okay we can have a sec I think we need to have a second before we can discuss we should have a second to we must find our rules that we can but even if you but even if you second it doesn't mean
you have to vote for it but if you motion um I commissioner El well I just had discussion so okay to discuss yeah okay you got the floor yeah I did do we know I've kind of advocated this from
the beginning it's always a no cost situation now for the first time we've got a bit of a cost situation here the study to remodel the LEC would be $100,000 or less is that in the budget no we didn't specifically budget for
that but we could take it out of that 750,000 as an emergency fund is that a place where we could get that money yes to do that yes okay there is no doubt that 750 that's the emergency fund we set aside so I'm just wonder first of all because this is the first time we've
actually had to put a cost to this you know an Associated cost so I've always defended that we know something needs to happen is it palatable to the community we know that there's stuff that needs to happen there's no doubt about that and thank you for what you guys do because
you're the first person I'm going to call when there's an issue I mean that's the reality of it and if I need a fire truck I'm going to call the fire truck funny I used to be an EMT so thank you for what you guys do this still comes down to public palatability where we're at we just spent $2 million on a qu house Ro we just figured out how to get
sales tax shift build ourselves a beautiful new Trail like it or not it's here and and and here it sits so now we've got another issue so I've been an advocate since day one to say hey as long as the trail leads to no money spent now granted it's still our money because it's coming from the states they
just took it out of a different pocket but at least I don't have to cover as much of the cost I I think it would be somewhat foolish to know that we have to spend some money there and for a 100,000 my first question is going to be how do we know that that's the cost is somebody
actually given this or if we arbitrarily pulled something out of the air and and again nothing fous about the comment just a kind of a question to to ensure that it you know doesn't snowball on us on that cost and again the money's already here it's dedicated if we if
this is zero cost and zero commitment to the county taxpayer why would we not take a look at this and I feel that for the scope and the size of what needs to happen potentially happen when we look
at a percentage of drafting cost or whatever that may in any project I've ever been involved with and some of these projects have been very very many many many way more than this a lot more Millions than this that is a small price to pay to ensure the taxpayer that we
represent that we're due diligence so this to me is almost like a golden egg to say for 100 grand we can assess a very large cost situation to figure out which way the best way to go is so I I I just I think it would be foolish to stop
here when we have a virtually I'm going to say for the scope of the project a very lowcost situation to truly understand what our options are and we can make a much more facilitated and and and thought you know well laid out plan
as to what we do for this facility so I would support option one simply because it's virtually no cost to this right now and we've got this opportunity I I you know concur with commissioner vagley that I'm very cautious as to what
funding is going to look like through the state the state's looking at you know a pretty large deficit um and I can see the issues in our community that are bring forth and I and I appreciate that um do we necessarily see that much in the districts in which I live is it more
of a city problem is this you know the schools and things like that and the homeless maybe a little more in the city than it is on the county side and you know I I hope that they can appreciate that um but we still have a group of people that defend us every day so and we have to
take care of those people so um you know I I I'd like to move that forward as option one just because it is a significant low cost the only question I have is and I've read a lot of what was in here but where did $100,000 Mark come from how did we get
there you want to say I'll start it and uh administrator whole team maybe but I I think you know we had G been given estimates by clim McCarthy on what it would cost to do that and I think we did have some discussion about it in fourth quarter September October somewhere in
there so actually I increased the amount just because you know how things go they don't go down they go up and so we may not it may not be 100,000 maybe 78 but I figured that's a pretty decent number and we would need some input from the
predesign to you know keep it under 100 so that you know when they're doing Kim McCarthy's doing the study they're also getting information from the predesign so you know I there's no I don't believe this is an elephant in a room the public perception right now is hey we're
recovering from these other projects and etc etc you know U with due diligence behind this though um looking at what needs to happen for long-term outlooks short-term outlooks would that 100,000 give us
multiple channels in which is similar to this scenario that we could be picking from hey 5 years down the road can you know let's do we have a 5-year plan a 10year plan let's do it all right now plan that's kind of what I'm gathering what what's this 100 Grand going to get us so we've got confidence back to our
taxpayers to say hey we know when this 100,000 is spent we're going to have some very solid evidence as to what to me to happen and I think too and and eron's right behind me but I think what we're going to get from 100K is not going to be what we'll get from the
pre-design that comes out of the other stuff no I don't have that expectation we'll get a conceptual design maybe with you know some graph paper and some ideas and some options but probably not detailed technical specifications I I would suspect well what I what I was more after was you
know the cost to just limp the thing along for right now and do the basics that we need to keep it going all the way up to you know we might have a one two three type scenario like this up to hey a full remodel type scenario to compare to say hey because you know you
look at sometimes buildings they're not worth their face value because the cost to repair them is significantly more than to just start over and we can structure it that way for sure yeah I'd I'd really like to see kind of a kind of a what's it take
to keep our department going scenario up to hey we're going to invest in the future because the long-term outlook on that money spent it just doesn't make sense sort of like a blend of option two and option one one well we already know well we kind of already know what option
two is do nothing and just roll with the punches what I'm looking for is hey let's fix the necessity I don't want somebody getting electrocuted and you know hey we at least got to make sure the the heat's on right two it makes you know somewhere between there and a
middle of the road and a highend type hey what happens if we start completely over to some extent I just don't know if that's possible it seems to me relatively cheap for 100 grand to get that all done so that's why I'm posing the well and and I'm not that's what I'm saying and I realized it isn't going to
be a full HVAC system and figure it out what I'm just saying is we we've arbitrarily throw this it's going to cost $4 million $5 million to do this where does that number come from you know and is this going to give us a little more defined Avenue for
that so I uh I have software uh for my living and so this is kind of this if then else sort of deal I'll say that when I think about this I think that there's several like if we are running to race there's some
hurdles that we got to go over and I think the first hurdle is that we have to reconcile with the city on the issue of needs versus wants and I think that if we can't reconcile needs versus wants then maybe the deal is off
the second thing that I'm concerned about is if we are um it's fine if we go ahead and ask the city to go ahead and do their pre-design and what's being offered under option one is that we would do a
study that is like how could we accommodate the same things in the LEC but I think we need to know before we do that that the city would actually stay if that was the less cost option CU I'm not sure that that's true I think there
are concerns over the ownership of the building that make it not possible to use the seven and a half million so it seems to me that those two hurdles really need to we need to have answers to those questions before we go
ahead and agree and then I think as we move on depending on what happens right we compare the costs we figure that part out um and I I I think that if it if we if they don't get the state money again that's a
decision point at which you know we maybe are not going to go forward with the project so I I'm I don't disagree with the potential of letting the city go ahead and do that study but I think there need to be some additional
decision points that we discuss and are clear about before we have them go ahead M Commissioners if I may have uh uh Mr lefi given an overview of what the Klein
McCarthy agreement would provide for you because that's what we had proposed previously to give you more detail about what can we do with the building the old LEC so if you would please but I'm sorry before you start isn't Klein McCarthy's predominantly in the building business
they're not in the remodeling business are they they always want to build something new no they actually do big remodeling projects also okay they're doing Salve and few other projects in town right now so so the quote that we got um from
Klein McCarthy back in August of August 12th 2024 it was to provide cost estimates for um kind of remodeling of the building if we do a space needs study which we would take the information from
uh bkv study um for the PE build lot and see if that blue or that footprint would fit into the LEC and if we would need any um expansions of the building it would also meet with um a group to see for the space needs but also determine
all the scope of repairs that we talked about the boilers the HVAC system the plumbing they would go through look at all of that and then kind of give us a I'm going to call it a ballpark figure because until you start doing big specs but there going to know what size boilers and everything else that they're
going to need um that was kind of uh at that point it was 37,000 uh 750 for that but you can you know if you need more information it keeps going up from there and that's kind of where the 100,000 is because this was just kind of more of a space
needs and you know they're going to look at the building and say we need to do this this and this and kind of I don't to say draw it on a napkin but that's the kind of yeah you know what we're going to get out of that they have building calc to tell you exactly how much we score commissioner ol I just
wanted to go back a little bit during our consent agenda we had approved at least 10 items that were grants that had to go to a specific thing so the city has this money that has to go towards this specific thing we cannot change
what the city can do with it the city may be able to but we can't so I just want to clarify that as far as to your motion the $100,000 I think I've talked to I talk to Marine every morning almost
um I talked to the mayor over the weekend I talk to a city council person I see my city council person is right here um I don't think the city has any intention of staying in the LEC um there e their
fall back is going to probably be the new uh fire station I've heard that um I think it's all but the writings on the wall if I was a reading the tea leaves I would say they're not they're not going to stay with us regardless of what we do so the
$100,000 space study analysis and determination how we're going to use that building shouldn't be spent on thinking they're going to stay there because I don't think they are and as commissioner Meyer said we would need
to know if they're even willing to and I think in a conversation today it doesn't sound like I I I think if I was a poker player I'd I'd call their hand um they're not going to plan on stand they've said it at that
Podium it's been said in conversation so yes to your motion um you practically seconded in all your arguments um but you didn't but I don't think the 100,000
is a good spend considering for them to be there to stay either because I don't think that's going to happen I know no that's all I got okay Miss did you have something more no man okay commission yeah fair enough um it's
it and that I don't know I wished I had the crystal ball for that um I guess I was a little bit under uh uh thought process that it went beyond just the space study for whether they stayed together or not this is still getting a
little better cost to the electrical the plumbing you know the roofing needs some of the rooms that would might need to be renovated the safe room you know the for fentanyl it was more than just whether they stayed there or not it was incorp that's why they increase in cost like
what I saw you know it's everything else that goes with it so if if we want to throw out the part of co-mingling well great let's throw it out maybe it's only 60 Grand reality of it is is we still know we need to do something so we need this information so how we and slice
that up hey if we want to throw out the fact that they Co mingle great but we're still going to have to spend some cash to figure it out and I still think for the cost of the project and due diligence for a taxpayer's dollar we need to understand and be able to look our constituents in the eye and say we did everything possible to make sure
that we're doing this correctly because I don't want anybody's hands I don't want that out my butt that hey you died because you hit a fat all or something I just that that killed me so last you know the second thing that look at there's two more
things even if public perception says hey we can't tolerate this right now let's limp this thing along for a year or two let things die down kind of you know figure out make sure we don't have any other big projects that need to happen or come up you know there's always that wait and do it down the road
for every year we wait it's a newer year a year newer facility right and you know figure that out too which is why I supported hey the $750,000 we cut it in half it was 1.5 million let's get the budget down and nobody's out here telling me hey spend my money so you know let's get it
by and so we we we still have this concept of do nothing only fix what breaks it sounds very negative but really it should be rephased down to hey let's let's let's roll with what we have and do the best with what we can until we know we have the funds are there so I I still don't rule out option two which
is why I did not vote Yes right away because I wanted the dialogue I wanted the discussion um and then but what I also am very cautious of having sat in many board meetings and having to present to boards before for ideas is the the common phrase well we can't go
back now that thing that drives me nuts and because we can because most Big Ideas come with a lot of things that get thrown out and so I just I want to say that so we don't get into this we got all the staff time we got all this into
it we can't go back now and I've said that from the very beginning so and and that doesn't mean don't do anything it just means we might restructure how we do something or and and how and when we do it so I don't know we we we allude to what the city
wants it sounds like they're giving us an ultimatum and we need to make a decision because they want to move forward is that what I'm hearing it's not an ultimatum it just in order for them to move forward with the state legislature we need to clearly communicate that we are interested interested or not interested right so
I'm going to go back to the original concept that says for a we have to spend some money to figure out what to do anyway and we can dictate where we want that money spent in that budgeted amount we clearly had the money set aside barring a major catastrophe which is a
little bit of the row of the dice um and we can dictate where we want to spend that money to figure out what needs to happen I think it would be in our best interest and in our constituents interest to at least say move forward with the predesign if they so choose to
go without it then great if they and because we can say sorry pound sand too just the same I don't mean that factiously just hey this is a better option for us good luck I hope it works out and you get your funding um so I I still go back to option one because it
still leaves the other two options on the table and we can be precise as to what we decide to do with that 100,000 and move from there Char and I I fully support the collocation U and the
sharing of facilities I I think the um even the STA the staff cost would double for the city and I pay city taxes um so there is a benefit to working together um and you know if we go our separate
ways well I'm paying twice so make it work Mr Hima commissioner Meer yeah so can we make as a part of this motion and that it is contingent on the deciding needs versus wants right
because I I think I don't support the big underground parking garage I don't want an indoor gun range I don't want a fitness center I mean I think that we want to go with the least cost options and then the second part is I think we
do need to ask the city outright if we if the LEC was the less option would you stay at because if that's not true if we're going to spend some money to remodel the
law enforcement center we have our own needs right we could potentially use it for storage we're spending like $150,000 a year renting other spaces around town part of that's for storage we could potentially move Administration
and or Finance over to offices in that building and then have more counter space here we you could move the license bu here I mean but that's a kind of a different that's a different request in terms of asking for an assessment at clim McCarthy but I don't want to spend
100,000 on something that is never going to happen I'd rather spend it on our like what our plans are Mr v um yes to everything that people are saying um uh we shouldn't have to guess um the city has been wonderful to work with I want
to thank the city staff City Council Members again we should clearly just ask them if the funding proposal to the state does not work out would you consider uh remodeled LEC and if if the if the answer is no and they'll tell us they're they've been this Joint Task
Force has been a has been a great process um they they'll tell us and then to yes to what you what you both all all said is then we shift the focus from a remodeled LEC for joint to just shift it to a focus for just us I think that's
that's a no-brainer um in terms of um comparing needs wants oh my gosh yes but that's this is the the part of the process of moving to pre-design is that's when we decide those things if we vote in favor of this it commits us to nothing speaking for myself as well no
underground range no no no no no all those things we're not committed to any of that that actually comes up in our last Joint Task Force meeting council member ha made that point is that all those things will be disc decided later on commission so I just look at the timing of that do we have the cart in
front of the horse because we really need understand what the city wants to do and that's based on state funding so does it even make sense to move forward because that's the deciding factor where we're going to spend $100,000 we need to
clearly tell the city that we are interested in together and then they but even if they say yes or no if they say no then we know what we have but if they say yes then here we sit and we got to wait to find out what the city's move is going to be to understand
and the legislator but but if they say yes we would still want to stay there we don't know we don't know whether that's going to happen or not so we don't know how to spend the 100 Grand because it encompasses a space study based on them being there versus them not being there
we need to know but we need to know that info two different parameters right right so it really puts us in a in a weight situation so now we're back to option two which is do nothing for now hope nothing breaks till we get the answer you know
vag I think it's incredibly important that we do something because we need to give the city Clarity so they can attempt to go with the option to the predesigned for the pro Bild site if that and it's a long shot I don't think you know I think we need to try if we
don't give the city Clarity and a clear commitment they aren't going to be able to go to the state legislature and that $4.5 million option is completely off the table so we must give them Clarity and and then give it a try I think that we don't need to do anything today or tomorrow we should also ask the city
through Comm and our County Administrator hty to give us an answer what if this that doesn't work out then we can adjust yeah and I think we need to review it again when we know needs versus wants right if we can reconcile needs yeah well that gives us our
Baseline sitting here biting my tongue you done well not easy just one one more thing if I so little longer you been a motion we don't have to include I know but to include the 100,000 but it doesn't make sense to spend 100,000 to
do a analysis of the facility if they're not going to stay we might that money might be better spent to look at a reuse for other offices so so we don't have a second we don't we don't have a second
that it well unless somebody wants a second fails can I um so we still the mo we need a motion in a second to get on the TBL to vote Yes um is that the current die without a second um the option says option one the study to
remodel the LC would be 100,000 or less um we can make that clear in the meeting minutes that we will we will do nothing until we find out about the state option yes and but when you say State option no I'm saying needs versus wants and will they stay if the LC is the lower cost
but do yes those two questions the state getting State bonding that's a third no that's that's what drives everything else that's the first option no because you aren't going to know that even maybe this legisl we won't know unless we but we can reconcile Leeds ver V well before
then and we can get an answer as to whether they stay well before then through the predesign process your word I'd like to hear your thoughts well hell no very simple and concise commissioner Olson brings up a very valid point um
who do I represent I represent my district what benefit I have a very hard time telling my rural constituents to build a new Winona police and and Sheriff uh co-mingled uh resources I think they should stay together but it
it's a very there is no good answer for it for my rural constituents my rural constituents would probably prefer to see a a patrol car out in the area because if there if the sheriff if a deputies in Leon and we have a tragedy in Dakota or DRC it's a good 40 45
minute drive so I mean I mean if you talk about public safety and then I have to laugh too the the comment when the Black Horse unfortunately a very prominent location what no fire hydrants we live in the country people we don't have fire hydrants in the country that is that is Homer is country that is
County um and tonight with all the people saying uh you know I guess in in my gut the city went and asked for this money they were talking Regional and then they were talking police and fire and ambulance and everything I know a number of our local legislators and such
that I think I feel it's disingenuous that they're trying now to get the county to go into it to make it appear that it's a joint effort when it's a joint effort I know but when the city has needs for fire ambulance and
then I did have to kind of laugh uh mayor Sherman last week at Egen issues he was complaining about an unfunded Mandate of $33 million to take phosphorus out of the water well welcome to my world Scott Sherman that's what county is a lot of unfunded mandates so
I see the priorities there there's a long list of priorities they're both County and city um so I I see option it's kind of a blend of one and two um I I agree uh I think we need to know if the city's determined to stay um
spending $4 a half million doar it's still my money my my citizens money it's tax money for a pre-design but if you have no intentions of not building if you don't get that extra money from the state it to me it's wasted taxpayer
dollars um and could the state of Minnesota use that for other things yes and this whole thing that oh if we don't spend it somebody else will well that's just how how government works um but life is all about timing and I just and I think this whole board agreed that we
told our citizens if we got the the sales tax referendum pass for the jail we would reduce taxes which we did we did we did but we haven't even hardly caught our breath and we're already talking about spending another 20 plus million doll for our taxpayers and yes
commissioner Olson you would pay twice my citizens would pay would pay once um and that's just uh just the way it goes um I do think uh you know we need to spend maybe some money to figure out what parts of the existing empty building that we
could use to their best use and highest use I think with commissioner Meyer you know we've got other departments and things we could possibly move around um we talked about uh big projects no we don't have any well this is a big building project but we got a lot of big projects coming down the line folks if
you've listened to the state legislature and you've listened to the federal government there's going to be a lot of cost shifting down to counties and it's for the programs the people were asking for tonight housing mental health uh uh services for for uh disabled and all
kinds of things that's going to be shifted down to the county and that's going to that's going to bump our budget up huge I mean because we have no control problem with human services we have no control because if we're going to build a road we know that every mile costs X number of dollars Human Services
we have no idea how many people are going to need these services and what it's going to cost and it's going to get huge seriously if you listen to the the AMC Micah sends out things and now tomorrow we can listen to what the federal government's going to do we've got a lot of expenses coming through and
I just think it's about timing it's not the time to put a big burden on the taxpayer with a building I think they're asking for services that we need to to provide so um and you know there you know I wrote down no deficit or debt has
ever been caused by anything other than spending more money than you have but we don't have this money we're we're depending on the state legislature to give it to us I don't the word on the street is they don't they aren't handing out any money I like that the governor's proposed bonding and there were some big
projects uh State Patrol um I think was there a mental health uh I mean it was all very big high level Dam in man yeah the dam and the Dam dam in Mano and stuff there were a lot of big projects but there was nothing down to like this level of thing for funding that the
governor was even considering now I know it's early on in the session and but things aren't going well folks um so I I think we do need a commitment from the city because we do need to to study what we can and can't do with the space we have but if they're go if they're leaving that you know that that changes
you know what we ask for what we want to do commissioner Elie so I was when I brought this up initially and it alludes back to you saying hey don't use the money I had asked that question can we give the can the city give the money back and then I was told they had
received it it's theirs it's appropriated for what it is and they can't give it back it they can't go back up to the general fund so with that said I I've never heard that that's what I was told I'd like to see that in writing you've been in meetings said that and they said they'll probably use it for a joint police fire
right right right so so I I I that's what I tested to they it's theirs they have it they can't give it back and I said you know I think this even made the paper um I think that I asked the three pertinent questions can it go back are we obligated is there any cost and those
were you know no they can't give it back no we're not obligated and no there's no cost so there was three to move forward so my question is is to you and this is just I'm trying to understand everybody's side to this if it can't go back which would have been that was my
first thing can the money come back because it's our money they're just took it out of a different pocket but it can't or they're not willing to either way and I can't control that so it me it means it's spent either way so that means to me business mind says well heck no obligation why wouldn't we look at it
even if it's the most ridiculous thing out there why would we stop and say we don't at least want to see the piece of paper we're going to know for sure to crumple up throw in the trash anyway to me it's just information and it really could potentially show The Bargain to maybe remodel or or or fix what's there
if that cost is out of control to build this whether the funding comes or doesn't come we now have some sort of still call it arbitrary but a number of what a totally new design does versus a number of what it takes to limp this
thing along and all everything in between and that's what I'm trying to say so if we can't give it back I don't see any reason why not to move forward my first pick give it back because it's our money anyway if that can't happen why not at least explore what it is
under the terms of needs versus wants determine that out and we have still have no commitment we have a very very small cost to figure out we have to do something and we can always say hey we'll wait a year or we can the can a
little bit down the road we've got an emergency fund so we can make an educated decision and to me this is due diligence to the taxpayer if I was sitting on that side I would say this doesn't cost me a dime to figure out that could be sliced bread we might be throwing sliced bread away we don't know
that and that's why I'm willing to invest this 100,000 we have a little bit of a card of a horse situation because we don't know what the city's going to say and we're expecting some funding and maybe there's a way that we can get creative where we can segregate that out or maybe part of that money says hey
here's an option if they stay here's an option if they don't I don't know I I I don't know the ins and outs I'm not an architech ask me something about agriculture I probably have an answer right or wrong so that's where I think I would start and and so my question commissioner word to you is if there's
no cost we can't give the money back or they can't give the money back and even if they could it's not our at our discretion my question to you is is what's stopping us from at least saying hey show us the numbers on a predesign well what's the timeline if you do it if
you do this predesign and everything and we've already said we don't think legislative money coming this session will it come next session it doesn't look you know is it two three years down the road so we ride on option two well so then that probuilt design is you know you know it'd be four or five and so be
it there's no cost to us well I guess I don't see it that way I I still feel it's taxpayer dollars there is a cost it's not it came out of my pocket one way or the other but there's no way it that's what I'm asking there's no way to get it back I think the city in my opinion the city's got bigger problems
than just the police they're talking fire Emergency Management uh you know and they've got this phospherous thing and I don't know if it could be used for that or anything but I just think they've yeah they their scope of projects is Broad and and uh needed I
just don't feel that we can dictate what the city does so we have to look at it in our I I I think we need personally I think we need to look at it for the context in which it is and we can't dictate them anymore they they can dictate us the context of the situation is is whether
it ends up into a children's playground if they choose if they can legally do that with the money they're going to do it what they're just simply asking us is are you willing to take a look at this with us and if it doesn't work we have zero obligation and they could go build a children's playground they just were
waiting on us going are you willing to at least take look at it or not and we're kind of asking them well if it doesn't work out are you willing to join with us or not and because we know we have to do something so there's zero obligation zero cost the money's not going back I howly doubt you're going to give it back maybe you legally can't I
don't know what would you put as a timeline to know if you're going to build because putting plans on the Shelf Yep they're short live the cost great point so my so so what happens in the meantime is we ride on option two do nothing and fix only what break and we
set aside the money for that and if that timeline keeps dragging out let's just say 6 months from now it just doesn't look like this thing is inevitable we just move on and we take the money that we spent that 100,000 we've got an idea of what it takes and we start making
decisions on that there's no oblig obligatory timeline other than what the city wants to do on their end and as they get answers with State funding that's going to help position us to know what to do but we need to even know if it's a feasible thing that we Tagle on
with this commissioner Meer said though if if they elect to stay it it's one set of uh parameters if they elect to leave regardless it's a whole different definition of what wants we we need which we just discussed in that 100,000
do we have a way to segregate that out a little bit what would the timeline on that be because again if you wait building costs and everything go up and I don't want to spend money on something that maybe needs a higher level of upgrade than a emergency
fix but if okay I I see where you're going I I agree but do I feel as though the cost for that 100,000 even if it goes up 20% inflation's two and a half what are the chances that's going to go up 20% in the next even six months or a year that
number is virtually nil I I highly doubt it's going to go up depends on the Tariff but it comes on the Tariff well but not for not for studies typically I what I'm saying is that that the cost that $100,000 it's just a number that's up here can we take that $100,000 and say
yes if they stay this is kind of what it looks like if they don't this is kind of what it looks like and we've got at least an idea of where to start on that aspect and as if yes or no and the funding begins to happen six months down the road we're going to have a little
better idea of hey uh one of two one of several scenarios uh doesn't look like the funding is going to come through this is probably going to be off the table we can begin to make decisions as to hey City you're going to be here or not be here with us and we've got two sets of kind of blueprints as you might
want to call them that we can begin to gauge decisions off from what needs to happen to this facility the other side could be the state funding starts to happen all this comes through the pre-design comes back and that might look like an absolute horrible deal for us and we say you know what we're going to stay stay back over here I right now
with what I'm hearing commissioner Ward is that with the there there's no defined plan in your system because we can't really move forward with anything so you're leaning actually towards option two which is just do nothing no I'm saying I need a timeline I need the city to say are they
gonna you know if if you know are they going to stay or leave regardless and then that changes the scope of what we study and what our future plans are do do do we I I understand what you're saying but what is advantageous
about an acceler at timeline the quicker you get a quote the quicker you get it held to that dollar amount if you drag it out it costs you more I I I I realize that I I own a lot of real estate okay but what I'm saying is that again do we look are we looking
at some massive number in the next six months that's going to change um I don't think even if tariffs come on we're not going to move fast enough to to avoid the tariffs I mean right so so I mean we're just kind of we're grasping that straws here and so at the end of the day
I I think due diligence says slow down weigh the options out determine wants and needs take the lwh hanging fruit which is a free study it's literally a free study saying here's an option that never happens I'll take that all day long and for a very small amount
compared to a potential project cost with no obligation on any of these things to us zero we can always default back to option two which is do nothing and roll the dice free in my board commissioner vag so is it the board's um um perception that my original motion
failed for a lack of um I would say the motion fails because of a lack of I'd like to make a slightly modified motion right it's still option one but to clarify that the study to remodel the LEC would not be no funds would be expended until we had an answer from the
city if they would stay with us or not so it's option one adding language in the minutes that um the no money would be spent and originally the climate Cy was 50 to 70,000 or so this is a 100,000 was was you added some funds in but that
we would expend no funds until we asked the city in a respectful U you know professional manner um and then and then and then we need to be careful like how you know you know we're talking here um um but yes we will ask them and then we would decide to spend the funding ETA
one discussion if you okay so that's a modified Mo clarify everybody y one discussion this alludes to commissioner Wards which I appreciate this I think it would be um I don't want to use the word foolish but I I think it would be very
smart to take advantage of a free predesign clost study but I do understand the timeline because the motion is made that we are definitely on the hook of when the city gets back to us so we could put in there a time frame
if you'd like to remodify of say 6 months or something I I'm open for that discussion to make sure that we're not just created a motion that we're inde definitely waiting on the city to move forward does that cure both of these problems and then we can re-evaluate it
well timing again the city hasn't ask for the additional monies which they can't yet because they don't have the pre-design they don't have an answer from us well they haven't done the predesign they they done the pre-design themselves you know they could have they can't go to state if they don't know that we're going to be partners with
them they have to to to present it to the state the they have the money so I mean again you're saying they have the money and they going give it back for the predesign they could predesign a police fire is the way I understood it or a police fire
EMF yeah so the issue is that the city cannot request to have the release of the funds until they have the agreement that we're going to partner on the pre-design okay and I asked for a copy of that letter I I've been told that a
lot but I I I like things so that's why they need a decision on the County's behalf will we commit to doing the pre-design can you provide that to me in a written document I I don't what purpose will that serve commissioner W
satisfy my I I get told a lot of things we discussed that two weeks ago In This Very Room I know and I asked her for a written copy and I know she was out sick and everything happens and everything but I have never seen that in print I've been told that a lot by not people who I'm accountable to
my so again I'm I'm sorry but I I don't understand that that the legislature would be so loose with their you know the way they put elections in a public health document why they would be so loose and why there isn't a written document that that states those things I don't I don't
disagree and that's why I've asked over and over this is non obligatory we do we are not obligated if we move forward on the pre-design I also have not seen an official document I'm taking the word of our administrator that says yes we are not committed by signing a piece of
paper that says we'll agree to the predesign but we have an opt out clause 100% opt out clause we are not on the hook for anything I God knows how many times I've said that is this true and I've been caught in the past by those types of things being said and then it
doesn't P up so I just from p i don't disagree with the document and but I just would it help if my motion had had a time frame so to review it within 6 months or one year I I got an idea for a motion too
and one was going to be to solve commissioner Ward's two problems the time frame and that the docu a pending documentation that it's non we're not obligated okay we could cross all these te's and Dot the eyes and it's not a bad thing I think it's a
good thing that we absolutely know I guess without a shadow of a doubt that this thing we're not obligated to it I still think it's something because it's free the money's not going to go back we can wish in one hand and whatever and the other but it ain't going back and so
it's it's the reality of it is is the dollars are there they're going to get spent I don't like the concept but would it be easier if I withdrew my motion and you made a motion commission I don't know at this point we need to
make a decision someone wiad a couple things that we needed we need iron out needs versus wants right and and do you feel that would be accomplished through a predesigned does it have to be
determined in predesigned or can it be determined before will be detered they did some of that they had a I asked that question before I wanted if remember at our joint meeting at City Hall I wanted to start that conversation it happens during it doesn't commit us to any money and the city is not going to spend money that
will be wasted um you a lot you know they're not going to invest $4.5 million if they don't think it's going to um but during talk with the city I um during those discussions and two weeks ago In This Very Room commissioner haa made I'm sorry County city council member Hima made the point that those are the things
and it does seem backwards um that we wish we could do that stuff first but that happens during the pre-design phase and my angst is when you give an architect or any firm Blank Slate they're going to come up they're going to come in high and to get it down to
where you get comfortable with it is a Monumental task and so I say if I was going to build a house I want a million dollar house I don't want you to come back and show me a $2 million plan so you have said several times the
$ four and a half million dollars and I've heard that said before but in those documents if you look at that that is said well we're just for example purpose we're going to take 22 million that isn't what the estimate is and we don't know what the predesign will come
in at so we don't know that it's four and a half and I I agree with you that we can't make a decision about what to do unless we have two things to compare to but I think that's the right way to do it is to make that comparison but I'm
understand what commissioner Olson is saying if the city was never going to stay anyway if they don't get a new building then there's really not much point and if I made and agreed I think if we can take the 100 Grand and kind of give us two little synopsises in there that
says if you do stay and don't stay because you know update electrical panel is probably going to happen whether you stay or don't update the H we got a certain amount of square footage we got to heat and cool right I mean the interior walls and what happens in there might change a little bit but I think we can if we can get just better idea of
what that's going to be and then then at least we've got a comparative idea to what this is going to be and it's a no cost situation on this side it's a smart business decision to get a free basically you're getting a free look you know do I like the state money spent no
but I don't think we're going to be able to do anything about it so can we actually do them concurrently or do we need the predesign that the city does to get to a certain phase before we can take the same parameters and ask for Clyde McCarthy to do an estimate for
us sure I think we can do them concurrently yeah I don't see why we couldn't if they stay and if they don't stay we don't need the entire predesign though do we it because know what you're qu to me it's dependent if they stay or if they
don't stay it it's two totally different Clin mcarthy requests I well I'm with you on that I think all five of us are we are let let me State this again I'm
asking if the 100,000 can give some sort of Representative analysis of both the situations in the existing facility it covers both of the topics if
they stay or don't stay either way we've got some sort of analysis that says this may be the cost if they decide to stay this may be the cost if they don't decide to stay it's a generalization of the two meaning that the time frame it
might C cost us a little more to do that but it also accelerates to your point the process that we can't control which is the state funding side and if that looks like it isn't going to work now we at least have some numbers on this
one it does seem to me that we we we don't have the parameters to do the concurrent study at the LEC we don't know need div person wants and that would have to be worked into that motion that commissioner vaguely had
you know I'm I'm going to trust my mayor and city council uh to know that they heard the public speak tonight um they know what the sentiment is um they're going to make a smart decision and I think we all agree that the smart
decision is us working together and to argue back and forth over timing is kind of ridiculous I think we can I think we can move ahead with the agreement but we can't figure
out the 100,000 when I didn't hear anybody in the audience tell me to build baby build no but we need to no but but we have billions of dollars of work that have to be done at our existing LEC and I would like to minimize the amount of
money that's spent on this because I do have other priorities which are the services that those folks have talked well and I so I in my mind the only way the joint project works is if they get the state funding and if somehow it ends up being a less cost are very similar y
so I have a question from Miss hty I asked today I said what joint Powers agreement are we under um with the city on them staying there and you said we're working on one yeah it expired in December December yes December of 2024 and if you look at that and maybe I I
know there was a couple of them if you look at those agreements actually um the the the one I looked at uh was page 299 9.3 was shared heating air conditioning and electrical under the old agreement pay was that the 2012 one that
you has your 299 I think it's the most thing7 and 298 number seven was modifications to the building again the city should have been paying I think it was half again so we didn't hold them you know we we kind of
we didn't do our due diligence we should have pushed this back in 2024 and they could have helped us Remodel and done everything we wanted at half of their they would have paid half so I don't know what the new joint Powers agreement is and if it did it well a good lawyer could fight that it's still acting
because we haven't created a new one because we haven't we haven't declared a new joint Powers agreement so we're still working under the old one I think you're referring to the the 1987 one there's Al a 2012 update that has your name as the board chair signed to
it and maybe I pulled off the old one I like but still ESS the old and I also like I also like from 1987 where it talks about consolidated services um that those things that haven't have kind of happened but there's there's lots of room and that's one of the things I like about working together is to consolidate
services and save money that way because operational cost someone make a motion so I just got a quick question yes so what I I feel like we're kind of on the same page but I'm I'm still trying to understand what your concern is the true
concern because we can get past the time thing we could cancel any time we want start let's start build let's remodel what is the true concern see I don't see it as free money I there there is no government free money came from somebody and such and I
I don't really understand that they can't give it back and that I think it was I I hate to say this I think it was a little disingenuous you know they talked about Regional and I've explained this to me as a county commissioner Regional is multicounty it's not a city and a county I mean that's just my
definition of regional and I again my I I hate to say it my history goes back to you know we were looking at a regional uh jail facility many years ago which the city had nothing to do with that was I mean I got this led District judges yeah I I got it logged into my my thing
and then I I talked to my uh counterparts in Houston and and and uh Wabasha and their jails are sitting empty I look at our jail um somebody asked if the people would have to move out and I think I said well my Jail's only half full so I got space I could probably move an office or two into a
part of it I mean it's seriously and again I have not had a constituent ask me for you know to do this to spend more money um I I gave my word I would try to keep you know the the taxes down and like I said there are so many other big things looming out there that I think we
can make what we have work I I don't deny it needs some remodeling but I think it can go in phases and uh you know minimalize it and still make it a functioning you know facility I don't see it as being something that we have to tear down and rebuild and I I so I'm
sorry I drove around and doesn't the probuilt building share a wall with the engrav remodeling is that a shared wall or is that separate walls I don't know if it's shared I don't know two different drawings about how to how to how to fit I just didn't know if that's a shared wall cuz you know how old
buildings were built they shared walls I believe it is yeah so I don't know what you would impact you know an existing U business owner too and it seems like that's such a such a small little uh footprint which we want but then here a couple weeks ago we were looking at a
property over here so I mean they talk about parking and and expansion and needing this and that and why are we trying to put ourselves in a little confined area you're going to go for it go for it but again I'm not for going for it I I don't disagree
I'm not advocating for a new deal what I I I just I honestly cannot understand the rationale if you're concerned about how much time you got the tax well I'm being serious I'm concerned about if you're concerned about the taxpayer what you're literally saying is that I want
to put all the risk on the local taxpayer if now and and we find out that the amount to remodel this to get it to where it need be is more than what it would have been to go to a shared system through the state you're actually taking the risk of it by doing this and making
the better decision of the two when faced versus just shutting the door in one and saying no we're going to take all this on ourselves it's literally the opposite of what we just did in the referendum we said let's use outside people's money to help pay for something we're looking at outside people's money
to try to pay for something interior and we're asking more of a collective person now I hate the the whole state fund and County fund and co- match and create a whole new thing don't get me wrong I don't there are certain things that we don't want but the of it is is this we have the opportunity to do it so we are
literally saying hey if it doesn't work with other people's money including our own which would lessen the cost potentially or it may not be the way to go fine we can it we don't do it and then we go back to what you said this is just a comparison aspect that says if it
is better for our constituents to use not only our own money but other people's money too to build this why why wouldn't they take that deal versus just slamming the door on that and saying nope the only way to do this is we funded ourselves I just don't see the rational
in it it it's we're we're we're literally doing exactly what we did with the referendum instead of Tourism we're just using other taxpayers money to come in and do this and if it doesn't work we just walk away from it we don't have to do anything I guess my gut tells me the
state isn't going to give us any more money so I find out and if it doesn't happen great then we then we walk away from you're to spend 100 again you're you're advocating spending up to 100,000 we have to do that anyway no not that much though if they decide to leave it's a different set of plans
and if they decide to say it's a different set of plans so you know maybe I have Penny you know pound and I brought this up with the very thing for the small amount of cost this is goad I mean if you want you know for the small
amount of cost this is I think it's it's it's it's it's you're this is a good thing to have that for the very little cost the only reason why we're doing that is because you're brought up time you want to accelerate it well yeah I want to know because yeah right so that's why I said okay it's gonna cost us a little bit
tote money on emergency fixes if it's something is possibly not enough to convince commission pardon me I think that alone adding a time frame is not enough no I just just again I'm so so did my second amended motion also fail
or was there a second the the second motion is opt is option one I started to make notes as to what it was but I got we're on page 178 right I have to go backwards 178 or two 172 I have to go back 172 so option option one
get to your roof I looked the okay I won't even I'm ready for the roof great okay I love the courthouse you know um so on 172 it's option one with uh the addition of option one with
the addition of the $100,000 would not be spent on any plans until we knew the answer from the city um would they stay with us or would we look at just a county remodel or would it be a County City remodel is that clear yeah and it but it sounds also like we would have to
have enough predesigned to have needs versus wants yes so and a timeline yep okay and a timeline my timeline what's the timeline I can still what is the timeline no I'm asking I'm really asking what's the I mean we realistically yeah we'll revisit in six months or nine well
the leg legislation ends in May by byend May to 12 months let's review in July let's review in July the session will be over a special session maybe if they ever go in session so with and adding
another part of the motion that will review it in July review that a second you got it that a second I'll second all right okay am I going to try and restate that option one with not the the caveat of not
spending any remodel LC money until we have an answer to the question will the City St if we opt the LC Remodel and that we will review in July and it has the condition of the documentation of
obligation is proven that's what I had written out what's that the condition that the document we have the document that that's what I was seconding anyway that spells out that we're not obligated for any cost on the predesign so this
is y got it that is if that document can't be produced then it knows the knows the motion so basically no obligation to us besides what it could potentially cost us and we can't spend that until we find
out the answer I don't know how much better this gets that's about as good as it gets in my mind that's subject that's subject to debate you want to debate some more yes I'll call a question let's all those in favor of the motion say I iose nay nay
passes for one thank you now Marine do you know what you're Miss H do you know what you're doing for us are we getting an answer from the I didn't know better I'd be offended by that I know it's very complicated I have it written down you
got it do we I'm fine going on should take a break five minute break we take a five minute break I'm fine either way cold and wet to drink Dave you might want to take a break yeah I gotta get to the I apologize the right G oh you have to go like that yeah I got
it yeah they put Adobe on your machine I don't know how to do that you can do find 355 yeah there's there but this is Apple I Mark I blame Mark Anderson he
was the Apple okay oh I'm sorry I'm on the wrong page 3 55 yes okay Dave take it away Dave all right I'm thank you for being here sure you're after after a long evening I'm sure you're excited to talk about more more building stuff yeah
all right good got that enthusiasm right the Winona County Courthouse was completed in8 1889 um in it should be in Winona it should be in Leon it's supposed to be
Central that that's where it was built the so in 1999 the Slate previous slate roof was replaced um we've discussed the problems with the current slate rof um unfortunately uh the lifts the tiles and
brings them crashing down um so between Aaron lefy and myself mostly Aaron uh you know started working on trying to sort out Solutions talking with different contractors um some of them have been uh uh uh difficult to get some follow
through on um I would say the the one contractor that we've had very good luck with uh when we've asked questions and they provided information has been the Garland company um Brian Merl with the garland company prepared the uh presentation that was just completed
over the weekend and um was put into your packet uh into the board packet uploaded and I I printed an excerpt of that that has kind of some of the comparison things and some of the pictures and and distributed that um and and so before I talk about that I also
want to just kind of point out another aspect of the courthouse is that it's on the national register of historic places um this this was the first Minnesota Court courthouse on the national register um and it's one of two cour houses in the state that is listed as a
historic place in the Minnesota historic sites act which is in the statutes chapter 138 um great may I also add that the courthouse is also the longest running continuously operating Courthouse west
of the Mississippi in the United States so there all right skip though when blooded so you probably have to start over again yeah a couple years temporarily well okay but just that it's oper it's yeah we are getting but that
is true I would tell that to the sixth grade all right I I I wasn't aware of that um so along those along the lines of the the building also having a very important historic significance to the
uh the the people of the county who who's building that is uh um so I started working with uh the the Luke Sims with the city of Winona he's he's here tonight um he administers their historic preservation commission after working through some of the the the
details with him um we realized that the or Luke uh uh researched that uh the the um it has while the courthouse has a national and a state designation it does not have a local designation so therefore the city's historic preservation commission doesn't
technically come into play however the uh under the Minnesota historic sites act the uh political subdivisions have a responsibility to protect the physical features and historic character um and it's also a requirement to consult with the state
state historic preservation office which the uh commonly referred to as shipo or state historic preservation office is within the state department of administration so it's kind of a a state state agency function um so so Brian was
great to put together the information that that's in the packet and and it kind of uh looks at some different things um leading up to this meeting just today I was reaching out to some of the staff at at shipo two different uh staff members and I think kind of with the urgency of the upcoming meeting here
was kind of maybe able to get some answers from them um one of the uh the main recommendations in that in that study is is a standing uh seam metal roof and what their their state m is
from the uh shipo staff is the standing seam metal roof would not be a compatible replacement material for historic slate and installing a standing sea metal roof would adversely affect the historic property so just that kind of we have to kind of redirect some of
our our discussion and put the Slate did you ask that question um I will yes yeah so when they say that what that really means is we'll not let you
do it because they do have some uh authority over it because it's a national on the National Historic register in the state that's my understanding yes I I mean I mean if if the if the work were to play take place without having the the the review from
them and and essentially I believe that would not be lawful that's my understand what the penalty I mean we I don't want to find out I guess if you want to push push the issue with them I mean if that's the direction we we can do that but I I I
don't want to at this point know but what what's the consequences of a no I I don't know I mean I'm asking I don't know either okay so take you off the register yeah what's on page 401 on page 401 in our
agenda packet it shows the Freeborn County Courthouse yes and they had they have the standing looks like per if I'm wrong that's standing scene matter now what I don't know is freeing is it historical it looks like it should be historical that's another beautiful yeah
so if you look at those pictures there's flat roofs on those that that there's towers that were removed so they've I I I believe their their building May no longer be be eligible for historic status because of that even though it's an old building um
so with that um i' I'd like to uh have have Brian uh come up and and do his presentation Heidi if you're awake if you could pull up the slideshow corre yes okay so I I'm trying to think back
to the meeting that we had where we discussed the liability of the install yes and so we pursue that and I think the liability was for well I was like eight years or whatever and the statute of limit
so both both the both the contractor and the designer the the statute of limitations has passed and since an action was not started prior to that we have no recourse to to go after them I the specification the
mic I'm sorry state your name and yes uh my name is Brian ml with the garland company so thank you for having me tonight and um um before I begin just to interject it I did read through the specifications of your original project from 1998 and it does uh only uh require
a 2-year workmanship warranty from the original contractor installing that slate roof so uh the expectation was really two years of coverage of any modifications or repairs that would be required on that roof poor with the
type of roof it was I mean you get a better warranty on a house roof with shingles yeah typically um you know a 5-year workmanship warranty is is really where you get to the point of kind of the higher end of that so um and we've exceeded that so
okay it's his so we got lied too again I mean I'm sorry not you personally but are you on the board though yes not yet no so yeah um let me see I'm gonna see if this thing works here Point
upwards we go idea okay well again thank you thank you for having me and and David thank you for the introduction um so yeah so I've I've been working with the county for quite some time looking at this facility and uh uh was called in by Erin who uh
originally looking at the issues um I had not yet seen this before and I will try to speed this up I know that you everyone is tired of talking about facilities this evening so uh I'm going to go a 40,000 foot level view of everything here so um I'm going to do a quick introduction of what who the
Garland company is look at some of the conditions that you uh of this courthouse and then talk about some of the proposed kind of items that could that um potential materials and design that would be uh applicable for this facility C in pros and cons of those and
then kind of budgets and we actually put together some renderings of what the standing seam system would look like um obviously that was done with the intent of that being a possible um solution for this so see if I can get this so you may want to just let Heidi know to go from
screen to screen for you so I'm sorry but before you get into all this are you both the design engineer manufacturer installer all of the above um so okay so yeah we're on the next page okay perfect so uh the Garland company we are a full
service manufacturer of the products so um we still go through the public bid phase but we are the ones who actually help with the design phase of it but then also take on the liability and issue the warranty for the products and systems
that um we are responsible for so a little bit different than what you have in you know basically what you had for your 1998 project which was hire architect put together specifications they list out a bunch of Manufacturers who would be you know viable for your
slate rofs um that architect is obviously they don't have a war warranty that goes with it you're reliant on the manufacturer's warranty so what we do is we are helping with the design phase of this which is really kind of minimal
since it's already pretty much predesigned at this point with that type of roof uh you know 1212 slope with the turrets it's a very complex roof this more leans into the engineering side and that is what we take care of so um we
would handle the engineering and then from there a assist with the bidding process of getting a contractor who would install this system and then we would be uh the warranty holders for that system and okay so that okay so you're kind of a jack of all trades well
whole project somewhat yeah what I guess my concern is because we're looking are we gonna get a competitive bid yes so it' be publicly bid so you're you're bidding out to the um you're still publicly bidding the contractor who would be in installing it very similar
to what you would in any other scenario you are then just consolidating and saying hey we're going to work directly with the person who is actually holding the warranty for this work versus hiring someone and saying hey we're going to get an architect in here who would be
responsible for the design I could interject are we bidding just the labor so well that that's what I want to mention so so the the the business model is that garland would be a A supplier for the materials and and so as part of
that they would essentially donate the the uh design and uh and construction inspection services so one of the questions I asked when I when we met with Brian a couple weeks ago is you know we're public publicly publicly bidding this we don't want to bid bid it
as as Soul source so you know would we set up our specs to say okay it would be this uh um material type uh manufacturer or approved equal equ and and have that approved equal in the in the bid package so a bidder that's bidding on this a
contractor that's bidding on this could either you know select Garland or if there's a different uh material uh provider that would be you know equivalent in at least as good in all regards then then you you could have a you know compet competition that way so
I that that's one of the things I want I asked before I you know scheduled him to come talk to you because I wanted to make sure you know we're publicly bidding this we need to make sure we're getting competitive bids and we would have an or equal clause in in any um materials requirements but if you picked
an or equal Clause then he's out of work correct that's that's that's his risk so the yeah so with our system when we're when we're working with a county school whoever it might be uh the big thing for us is the services that come
along with it because as the warranty holder we want to ensure that we are not only taking on taking on risk that we don't need to so that requires us to be on site which is you're not going to get that from a lot of other manufacturers so we're here actually working with the contractors who are installing it to
ensure quality control so uh the services that come with our systems are assisting with that design and this is all input that's provided by the county and what systems you want I mean we're not even at the point I mean obviously standing seam is potentially not even
the option um so then at that point you know what we're doing is we are really assisting with the whole process of getting a contractor to bid on the project and then we are ensuring that they are doing what they're supposed to be doing so you don't end up in a situation like you're in right now which
is you have a slate roof that is what we 26 years old that is failing since six seven years into it so um yes we are we take on a little bit of risk when we get into these situations and we're bidding these out
but for us our hope is that You' want to work with a company like ours that is making sure that we have the best interest of the county and the best interest of ourselves and working with the contractor who's installing it to ensure that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing so that we can
warranty A system that is going to last how it's supposed to next slide I guess we're going to kind of skip around here tonight because we're we're jumping all over the place so we actually we'll skip this slide we'll go to the next slide please even
the next slide and the next slide so um I was out here a couple uh I think it was like two three years ago is when I first started working with the county looking at your existing conditions so um I took some photos I
actually went up with leter on a uh man lift looking at the issues that you're dealing with so if you can go to the next slide please this is um kind of a tucked away area of the roof but this is the issues that you're dealing with so uh on your roof you have a 3/4 inch plywood uh deck uh
felt sheets that are used as the vapor barrier and then you have your slate shingles that are on there um what seems to be occurring is that wind is being pushed through here and up lifting up the shingles they're dropping through and they're actually cutting into the
ground below so uh next picture please was supposed to be a 75 to 200 year rough yes yeah it failed miserably yeah well I it was I think it was the labor Nails the materials Nails sorry yeah
Didn't I show you that nail y yeah I showed you that nail yeah so um in in I don't disagree we actually uh assisted the county with putting together getting an outside engineering firm to do testing I believe that's on the next slide
please oh that's a picture of one of the Slate shingles driven into the ground right in front of right in front of the courthouse correct yeah so obviously an extremely dangerous situation that you're you're dealing with here um so uh we we assisted with getting Braun Intertech involved with doing a pull out
test and they kind of confirmed the results which was it's pretty easy to pull this so yeah so next slide please um they did the pull out testing of this and and determine yeah it is pretty easy to pull these out now in the specifications for your original project it did not have any indications of what
is required for pull out testing all it says it it specifies a certain type of nail that is to be used for these slate shingles we'd have to talk to the architect where that determination came from if that's supplied by the manufacturer of the Slate shingles if they're the ones who determine that
whatever it may be um but I don't disagree that that there had to there should be modifications done to the actual attachment method ology for these slate shingles so this does not occur but um you know testing whatever it might be engineering is going to be
needed to determine what is the actual proper way to attach slate shingles if you proceed with that product again for the roof um but back to your original Point yes this was supposed to be a significantly longer lasting roof than
it was um and it seems as if you know between the contractor architect whoever might there was really no answer for why it was failing they historically approved nails from the Historical Society did they check the
nails obviously not and you will you're coming before saying you will stand behind your product and process we won't be here 5 10 years from now looking at your shingles falling off good R and two to three more million $5 million do then you're going to stand behind the right
correct yes yeah so in in that is the reason why we do what we do which in the services that we provide and why we're a little bit different in the marketplace from everyone else is that we're highly involved in these projects that we take on and freeorn county is a great example as you were referring to earlier is um
that's an extremely difficult roof system that we had to put on and steep yeah very steep slopes and and had the uh Contours similar to your Courthouse here where we had to have tapered panels that go on top of it so um yes every
anything that we do and we don't take on a project that is not something that we are going to be able to come back and actually warranty so um yes that is not in our really our nature to take on projects that we're not going
to be able to stand behind and and take on that's what all salese say but we we'll get that in writing later on right we'll get that yes as long as they're still in business they go out of business then go there goes your they've been in business for a few years longer
than things are we have a different Dynamics in the world right now well I I I will grant you that but yes we are a uh we're an employee owned where are you based we're based in Cleveland Ohio and uhing companies in Minnesota
Google Garland company I just did okay so yeah we're entering our 130th year in business we're employee owns um we're a very well-funded company well Diversified so and for the very reason is that we can take on these warranties if something were to happen it wouldn't
sync our company so um like any good salesperson I guess you would say I have no plans of going out of business but yes that's what that's why we have lawyers y I'm sorry can I ask a question how do you make your money then I mean is it built
into the price of the the roofing so it built into the price so you're or do you is there a you know matal Sky yeah trying to think how you make your money yeah like any material manufacturer we our money is made
through the actual products that we sell yeah correct yeah so there is no invoice that would come in through design or engineering for the systems that we provide it's in the bill you haven't got the tough questions
yet I was just waiting I was just kind of wondering if we could run through this presentation with the questions sure uh next slide please I mean really there's more photos here of of your system uh next slide
please next slide so uh David had asked me to uh do a comparison of a standing seam system slate shingles synthetic slate shingles and metal shingles so um I just did a quick comparison of uh all of these on a
couple of different fronts so next slide please so testing methodologies that were used for all these are pretty standard you got ASM NFPA IBC um and so these comparisons you know everything that you're looking at is for every building
it's different when it comes to design and actual applicability so uh next Slide the uh was going in Los Angeles um Ash coming through the
air right term but dep the city to save it though the FL you know we fortunately don't have Santa Ana winds here but we do get a k ratio so so uh all systems have a Class A fire
rating so across the board I mean really there's uh not too much to be concerned about from that perspective of these different systems next slide please here we go wind uplift I think is probably the most critical of this conversation and so um I actually had
the wind uplift calculations done for your facility um through our engineering team and uh so these are all subjective I mean there really is it's across the board you can change this I mean a standing seam system if you wanted to
make make this thing so that it was unable to be lifted up at 300 mph winds you could just Bolt the thing down every six inches but in reality we're going to have to you know that's not going to be feasible price-wise so um what it comes
down to is the ability to be able to withstand wind in a realistic scenario is the standing seam metal system is superior in that because you have the ability to modif y it and adjust so that it can be um positively attached to your
actual roof deck however you may want it to be versus the scenario with slate synthetic slate metal shingles it's a little more predetermined how you would actually attach those next slide
please looked at longevity and warranty um SL Jingles are on paper supposed to be your best option uh when it comes to a warranty system there's no doubt so um obviously that is dependent on
installation like everything else and this is true for any type of construction project it's the quality of the contractor and the quality of the system that's going in and the oversight to ensure that it's actually done properly so that's where we really focus is the installation quality control is
ensuring that it's done properly versus kind of a you know what you might see in some scenarios is hire an architect they come in we'll say well we'll check in at the 25 50 75 and 100% uh point of completion on your project well there's a lot of scenarios
I run into on the projects that I work on where if you're not there to actually witness what's going on and what might be done incorrectly you won't see it and you won't see it because it's happening before you're actually putting in the final product so um our main
focus there is to ensure that we're doing the quality control during installation not afterwards please so cost of ownership um really when it comes to uh cost of
ownership you know longevity and price this is a lifecycle costing conversation it's a cost of ownership year-over-year is what it boils down to and and so I did a quick calculation when we were S I was sitting in the back of the room is you know in today's
dollars with a comparison of your systems um if you took today's dollars to your slate shingle system you guys are paying about $130,000 a year to own that roof if you paid today's dollars in comparison if you were to do a standing seam system and got it to the
70 years you'd be about $30,000 a year annually of ownership and so those yeah so if you said let's say you installed your new slate shingle system today and you got 26 years out of it
based on what the actual budget number would be for that slate shingle system and you had it for 26 years versus the 100 just divid you're just dividing it exactly was 130,000 a year yes and the standing and whatever is that was slate
that was slate that was slate and the other number was 30 30 so so longevity I mean annual cost of ownership initial cost maintenance cost these all get factored in and I you know I know obviously there's been a lot of costs that have been incurred by the
county for repair and maintenance on the existing system which is not even factored into the any type of calculation at this point so um yes slate shingles should on paper last the
longest but if you can't get a good contractor to install it or if it's installed incorrectly it it doesn't really matter next slide please and this is what the numbers I was just giving you are based off of these today's figures so and and and
I'll be honest these are pretty you know aside from the standing seam metal system um because I actually went out and got a budget number for that um these are pretty wide ranges on the different options available to you just based on kind of um square feet is is
the rofie yards or whatever they measure RS I have let me I'd have to go back to that I have that information I just don't have it right on me with right now a rough idea a good guess even a poor one I'll pull it up I I have the document with it so yeah yeah
no I I let's let it finish yeah I apologize I can pull that up I do have it on my computer right asking questions so um so yeah this is your you know kind of very very large
open 40,000 foot level view of what it would cost to replace this roof for the different types of systems that really are available and with standing seam potentially being shut out as an option uh you're down to slate shingle synthetic and potentially metal shingles
depending on the uh form and does you know however you want to design that system to do this roof but as I said said before this is It's a historical building it it was built way long before current and modern
Technologies were developed of how we do Roofing now um it it is going to require a very high quality contractor to replace this roofe no matter which way you go absolutely so um making sure that you if you don't select us and and work
with us uh I hope that you guys are selective in who you use for this roof system and replace placement next slide please so system comparison summary uh standing steam is the best in Wind uplift B in longevity for uh life cycle
costing um you know really at the end of the day you have to think about the situation you're in and who owns the warranty and who's responsible for repairs and taking on the liability of your roofing system um you know we kind of this is our big thing is
warranties are written up by lawyers in in even and they're said hey this is what we cover and what we don't uh and so the best way to really make sure that you are getting the best quality system is to have someone there who is responsible for that and has skin in the
game to actually watch the installation and ensure that it's done properly per the engineering the back side one this is in the your full board packet what IED out you was just six
pages I think his total presentation is like7 thank you y I know we'll start moving through this we won't hit everything here so next slide please so next slide we we're going to skip through the actual metal uh a lot
of the metal stuff because we don't even know if that's going to be potentially an option so next slide please next slide I'll touch on this really quick um whatever it is that we do we do create custom drawings custom wind uplifts that
are uh specific to your building um this isn't a one fit uh or one siiz fits-all for every single thing in every building that we do um when we're taking on the liability we are making sure that we are designing this again similarly to Freeborn County where um a lot of
engineering and this is actually Snippets from the package that was used to uh engineer that roofing system and the installer um had to follow those and make sure that it was done to in order to get a warranty and so um we do have
stop gaps that are put in there you know we always have performance bonds um that are required for all the contractors who work on this stuff so um fortunately in the position we are and the amount of work that we do in the state of min we have really great contractors that we
work with and and they understand you know our expectations we understand what what they do and and so um it's a nice kind of uh balance of making sure that the contractors are following you know what we have and understand the the the
complexity of the systems that we're putting down next slide please so this is actually this is a drawing from the freeorn county job next slide please next slide this is a picture of obviously a standing seam system being
installed next slide um one thing I will mention is uh we did talk about this a little bit in our our kind of meeting is snow retention and so um this would be a big factor in in the system is uh making sure that you have the properly engineered snow retention system U
there's really only one way to do this is the S5 clips which is uh a a brand of systems that are put on there so um if we needed to Custom Design This if there's certain areas where you're concerned about snow ice whatever it is we work with you um work with our
Engineers they're pretty good at at making sure that we cover this up so next slide so I'm going to just hit this and then we'll we'll actually skip through to the kind of the very end here and go through some photos and then open up to questions because I don't want to this could take another half an hour if I go through every single one of them so I
think everybody go to the end but yeah yeah we're not ring did you do like yeah okay so your questions of of working with us um we have a a pretty
simple fa uh replacement process that we work through and it's really applicable to all construction but um you know we have three phases we have the planning phase design and bidding phase and then the construction phase and so for us uh it is really focused on making sure that
we are working with our clients to ensure that we are meeting every single need that they have through the analysis establishing priorities I mean from this one it's fairly easy there's only one roof on the system and the priority is the fact that it's not functioning right now part of your roof system is not even
installed at this time well it maybe it is it if it's been repaired but so um for us you know we're in the budgeting project timeline of uh i' you know shown a couple of ideas for bidding this project out to uh David and Aaron and
then for design and bidding phase you know we do everything from the moment we get going um we'll initiate our engineering team start working on the actual bid documents um put those together and then do uh we always do a mandatory pre-bid where we have
contractors come out they actually see the building instead of having you know to say hey here's the documents bid on this project we want the contractors to be out on site to actually see the system and the landscape and what they're dealing with and then we can also um in that we Foster competition
make sure we're getting the best price between the contractors who see that there are people who are buying for this job um and then we're really into the construction phase where we do a lot of the work which is uh contractors out there we're doing quality control that's multiple times a week we're out on site
um that's not me sending a uh someone else out here that's actually me being on site as I take on a lot of liability for these Roof Systems that I'm responsible for so from this point we can probably skip ahead I'd guess 10 slides I might
say stop we just kind of talk more about the things that I talked about there but really the big thing for us you know it's site specific safety plans we're making sure covering everything from um bino inspection and punch list
QC making sure it's you know where do the dumpsters go where do we set up the site these are all things that are included in the services that we provide to make sure that you are getting the best roof system available and we are put in a position where are not taking on a bunch of risk and taking on a
project that is going to be a problem failed Nails sorry did you have nope I'm going to wait till you're done okay um we can skip ahead on this one too I I apologize if I don't have the exact so from us this might be of interest to do letter
of completion and warranty this is what we hand out so we have a letter of completion we'll hand that over to you and say hey we inspected this roof system this is owned by uh the Garland company then the warranty is issued um and that's pretty much I mean really
a get out of jail free card what page is that in the packet 3.99 3.99 I don't think if you enlarge it even you can read it I would be usually warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on in my opinion I mean it's forunate I actually
share the same view as you there I mean and you say earlier that you're all worried about water leakage for two years that that's an embarrassing warranty in my opinion if you're doing a multi-million dollar roof and you only guarantee it to be waterproof for two years then you're all worried about the color that's the last thing I'm worried
I'm worried about being on the roof and being waterproof I the color will fade I have a 35-year-old Barn shed that yeah fed but it's stood the you know the test of time and it's still watertight how about your front door H that's low
priority we have our priorities were you finished uh I have a couple more okay next next slide please I I am G to wrap this up I just so I'll I'll just point this out and then we'll go through a couple pictures show you I think you guys have already seen some of the photos so here's some of our references we have done quite a bit of work with
other counties throughout Minnesota um I know you had said you guys are great uh partners with said County we've been working with them for uh quite a few years now um so Freeborn Martin candy ohigh across the state
we've had great projects done with a lot of different counties uh school districts cities private companies um so it it is something uh a big point of Pride for us is being able to help out and work in these situations so next slide
please so Freeborn County Courthouse next slide please next slide please it's beautiful roof but um so Doug Arina this was a big standing scene project we did uh two years ago next
slide please city of redwing next slide please next slide please what I'm trying to get to is we had created some renderings of what the facility would look like with a standing seam roof so next slide please
so these are samples this is actually on the left side what you're looking at that's uh uh San Francisco uh I believe it's the War Memorial Museum um so we've done quite a few high-profile projects where uh kind of an alternative to slate and using our standing seam system in
lie of that product um but also trying to emulate the color system that a slate system would bring so next slide please so this is a rendering this is um uh our color slate blue uh with a
standing steam system on top of your Courthouse what it would look like from that angle so um there's four total renderings that were created of different colors for this system um you know I don't I'd have to look into our
engineers and talk to them if you wanted to see different you know a synthetic slate or whatever it might be but frankly it's going to be you know the synthetic slate is trying to emulate slate so it's going to look like slate unless you go up to it and grab one of the shingles so next slide
please so this is a color called still water and then we'll just skip ahead there's the last two slides here so next slide different colors with yeah that's all it is next slide but it's unfortunate that you're saying we probably can't do that well I'm not sure
about that so we need to check into that yeah I'm looking at some now yes I am wrapped up with um the question for Mr Kramer and Mr lefi in the packet as I read it was there a staff recommendation to go with standing seam or was
that I guess the historical um aspect aside for now was there a recommendation uh we did not specifically put that in the in the packet and I actually you know put the board item together before I saw the presentation so you don't have
recommendation um you know if I if I had my choice and the historical uh consideration was not a limitation I I would recommend the standing scene Mr lefi could I ask you the same question and and I apologize I I didn't give you a heads up ahead of
time based on the information that you have at this time I would agree with the standing steam uh roof just with the the wind loads and everything else it can take um I know I'm sorry I know like and respect Mr Sims I'm going to make him upset here I'm going to make a motion um
to go with the standing seene metal plans depending upon what we discover in terms of if because if I look at that that is a that maintains the historical look of the building um I'm very interested in this building staining
question up to a high standard that looks like a historical building I mean originally they were made out of was it bronze or bronze I mean originally you know what they were what they were originally sheathed in was was some kind of metal or this looks like historical building this is not us being Chiefs
Gates This Is Us I think putting a professional building on top so I want to get the ball rolling um and then so just to get on the table um or we don't have to get on the table I wanted to suggest what's
that yeah get on the roof and the table have question start interrupt I I Aon was kind point this out to me I did include this in the actual packet but your square footage is 17,8 120 sare ft feet 820 square feet
correct right thank you uh commissioner Elie I think Comm Meer was open oh okay commiss Meer uh given the issues with u it's not acceptable hisorical might be what would
be your second choice with what parameters your panot yeah I mean there's a chart in here that's like tries to combine longevity cost of ownership cost of
ownership but just in terms of you know and if we look at that the the life cycle cost slate comes in as number two although it's got the has the highest uh initial cost and then also to me it's on the relatively risky side
because we not 100% sure why our current system failed you want to try that again yeah and and so that does that seems you know very just risky I guess frankly um I'm kind of thinking the synthetic
slate I think it would be important for us to have a backup choice if number one is not acceptable um and we had budgeted yeah which of these fits within
that that estimate I understand that it might yeah so on the the handouts that I did on the last page it does have the you know rough price ranges so you know potential EV right right they either either at or
over so it's opposite of the prices right where's the solar panels going watch it be careful don't EMP me where's the solar so synthetic slate is the second choice that yeah and that's that's not a real
strong preference but that's that's uh they little piece it's hard to get it is it is a big sheet these they individual shingles essentially mimicking the size and shape of of the
natural slate so there you know in this picture is a little it's an individual piece once you have the same problem is a slate potentially I think it's a matter of if there's more options of how you would fasten it down well again do we know if all of
these are the other hand if the roof had been installed you know prob it would be could it have lasted 200 years the Slate could have where they should have I mean the Slate system that you have was installed per the
specifications so yes um in theory yes I modifications would need to be made to yeah so I mean and so you know of other municipalities or other sites where they installed a real slate roof V
it actually did last there's not a ton of slate roof still around um but yes I do know of a few facilities that still have it they still deal with the maintenance issues that you deal with from cracked slate and how expensive it is to maintain that
so um but no I have not run into a situation similar to what you're dealing with yeah you allow me to ask Mr s a question do you think come up and tell us who you
are good evening members of the board my name is Luke Sims I am a senior planner for the city of Winona and the staff Le aison to the local Heritage preservation commission um so do you think that the synthetic slate shingles would be acceptable to the state based on your experience of working with them in my
experience with the state I do think that synthetic slate would be an acceptable material based on my understanding of the Secretary of interior standards for rehabilitation and I think that that's an important point is that they're not judging this just based on Aesthetics or value they're looking at whether or not the
steps through the standards of rehab and concerns for repair and maintenance toward existing slate would be or is still feasible and then what can most closely match that if that is not feasible so they're looking at standards that are set by the US Department of the
Interior as they do that evaluation um and I will note that the local HPC does have this building on its priority list should the when on a county want to have support in things like certificates of appropriateness going forward because then they would hear it and they would ask similar questions like how is the installation
going what will be going on how long is it expected to last Etc so additional ey sets of eyes to look at that does it bring any money yeah there's always kind of historical grants and everything you hear about and read about I would strongly recommend that the board reach out to organizations like rethos which
is the former preservation Alliance of Minnesota um also reach out to shipo about potential grants as well uh there may be some potential money I can't guarantee that for you okay commissioner Ellison thank you thanks oh I I've got a pth of things
here I'm not sure where to start so the standing math here is about $122,000 a square give or take sounds about right yep yeah
and a square is what 100 square feet 96 square feet I know that's a terminology it just depends on what and how anyway so question I have is that's a
lot I've probably shingled in the real estate that I have I put Steel on I've done I mean comparatively $1,000 a square is a lot so I look at the cost of materials I understand there's a lot of
architectural cost but even if we said that's a third of the cost we're still looking at give or take let's just call it $8,000 a square MH even if we take out the architectural aspect because it is a there's a little complexity but I also
know that standing scam metal goes up the quickest generally has the least labor cost Associated to it because it's relatively quick because you can cover large areas very fast and you're not doing individual things and there's very little deal so I'm a little bit surprised that and it tends to be very
profitable so I I'm a little bit surprised that the standing SE metal roof is priced where it's at in comparison to the metal shingles typically metal shingles now I would say would be the premium the synthetics you know would be on that higher side we'll
just throw the Slate out is not even an option if you would have asked me before this conversation I was said there had been a significant reduction in the standing seam metal just based on unless it's very thick metal do you know what gauge it is 22 okay so standard in the
industry is typically 20 to 29 so it's it's it's on the thicker side but it's not $112,000 thicker you know and what I'm trying to get at yeah so we've got a very very high cost for your services is what I'm looking at I'm not I'm not
judging you I'm simply saying I own a lot of buildings I've done a lot of Steel Rifts I've built buildings tomorrow I'm going to go look at a whole another building in central Minnesota that's way more than 178 square yards to shingle that roof um so I'm just trying
to come up with the dollars and I get it's a tricky roof but let's put the architecture in there even if we doubled the cost to say it's a tricky roof there seems like this is about a million and a half dollar job with a standing seat metal and even that would be I think
Fair um you know I'm not gonna say it's a deal I'm just playing The Devil's Advocate you happen to hit a guy that knows a little bit about this um and I'm trying to justify where the $112,000 a square goes when I know what
I can go buy steel for right now because I literally just priced it up so um yes totally understand and so part of this is you've got a couple hundred, and Scaffolding that would be required for this project so you have to kind of
factor that in um you've got a 1212 pitch this is extremely steep rof that you're dealing just want to use I'm sorry that's just to rent it that's just to rent it yeah so these are this is cost not associated with me um this is
just to get the scaffolding up and to be available to do the project and so are there way I should first say this is a budget number you know this is not a hard cost if there's a way to get that down and we come underneath it I've seen it before I've come in I just had a project that came in half a million
dollars under budget for a school district two and a half hours away from me here so um yes we are planning for kind of what we think it might be the hope would be obviously that it's less than that um but there are significant
costs that are associated with labor and setup and being available to do this project so I understand what you're saying yeah when you take a square foot price and I'm doubling I'm doubling things and I'm still not coming up with 12,000 you know I'm I'm giving a a very large portion of the architecture I'm
doubling the cost of the labor site and I'm soting it to what a 22 gauge which again is on the higher size 2029 standard um you know and looking at that and I still can't come up with 12,000 a square so I'm just kind of going is it is it in the material is it in you know
in I mean I own the business I sell we don't sell our we sell Goods so we the same way our services come with the goods so I understand it all I'm just I'm looking at it saying that that number seems high and I guess my thing would be that I would like i' be curious
to see because if the warranty holds with the company and I definitely can appreciate the value of the company saying hey we want to be part of this to make sure that it's done correctly because it's that's a that's a double standard double thing for everybody but it comes at a very high cost and so I'm
just looking at saying first of all I would want to see a comparison a Avenue of a standard architect with a warrantied system and generally The Architects in bigger projects like this they're doing somewhat of what you're doing they should be paying attention and in oversight and because technically
if they're bid or hired as the GM they're kind of responsible for the job depending on what the firm offers the second thing that I would really look at is insurance cost we have the cost to put it on we have the cost of that but there there's a couple things that go
with it uh very similar to what I've told other insurance companies in the past is yeah that's great that you'll ensure that but that's a worst case scenario what happens if the building burns down or we find out the wall is crooked and there's no saving it and we spend a certain amount of money because
we're anticipating a 50-year life a 100 Year life a 200 year life whatever it is but we find out in 15 years that the whole side of it's collapsed and we got to tear it down anyway and we spent the money we don't get it back so there's that side of it to look at because it is an aged building and so then we say what how do we look at this do we look at it
on a 50-year increment 100-year increment to say we think the building is going to stand for another 50 years and then the other thing that I would look at is a catastrophe type scenario where hey we had the tornado come through we spent the money the insurance company's not going to pay us out for the additional half a million million
dollars that we might put under the roof for a longevity aspect to that uh the other thing that I have obviously is the grants um and and you know to take a look at is there any additional cost cuz we've only budgeted $2 million uh to do
that um and and then to really associate back to that value that Garland can bring and look at is the warranty worth that half million dolls or whatever it might be because we're going to get a warranty yet but again it is only as good as the piece of paper so those are
my concerns is to really take a look at it seems like there's a pretty high cost per square yard to this job even factoring those things in that's that's it that's all I got to say and I do not disagree and if there is a contractor that we bring in who is more efficient
and finds a better way to do it then that cost goes down well I would I would like I would be interested to see the breakdown of what you're associating the materials cost to the setup cost to the the contractor cost to really determine
and look at the three segmented aspects whenever we design a project out you know we' designed 20 30 Mill projects out before and what did they look like yeah right so yeah I I mean I'd be happy to provide that breakout of those
items if we moved forward with a motion to ask staff to continue to pursue the standing steel metal and find out if we can or cannot do it but the idea is just to continue to pursue it um is did I earlier on I thought that there's still a competitive bid process in this right
we we don't guarantee them the business I mean they could be under you could be the ially you could another competitor could come in and at a cheaper price we're not guaranteeing you $2.3 million no so again yeah budget number so um our
hope is if we're moving forward with this that you would choose to work with us and want this system I mean yes during the competitive bid process and the public bid process there's always a uh in the specifications you put in a material substitution so if someone comes in they're cheaper you choose to
work with them and select product you have every right to do that um now you obviously you're not working with us then we're out and we're not doing the quality control inspections you're not getting the warranty from us you're working with a completely you know a different manufacturer so um yes
you do have that option there's nothing that's saying you have to go with us and this is not a hard bid this is a budget number and you know we're putting it on the high side to make sure that we're covered so all those points valid yeah I think we got to look into insurance cost
you know what's that look like because it's it's a high dollar what's the what's the recap on that what's the expected building life do we have a plan that says hey we we know for sure we can get another 50 years out of this I mean there's just multiple things when you're in these big projects to look at I I I don't think we can make any
conclusive decisions tonight first of all we got it it just seems odd to me that standing cam metal is a middle of the road option compared to an asphalt sit situation it generally tends to be high but when you start looking at synthetics metals and slate it tends to be the
lower cost option which is why you do that so I it just this one seems odd to me why it fell into that price range I would have expected to see that at the cheapest cost both on a labor aspect just ease of handling total weight cost disposal there's very little there's very little waste you know just the
projects that I've done in the past it always seems like those are the ones that pencil out so it's just odd so I'm just trying to bring so so then it says okay we know the AG is steel the quality is steel there's a little bit of discrepancy in paint and fade warranties and things like that so we can factor
that in I'm sure you guys obviously have probably a good quality product and then to determine that out my goal would be to get this thing into budget and right now we don't have a budget friendly one on the table we're not even budget we're talking bonding
right this is actually is right and we're close low the low is in well it's it's to me but to me it's it's I would find that odd they would let that go here we have a synthetic for an aesthetic reason versus steel which
is a natural material and they used they we put steel when I was a kid I mean Steel's been on barns and buildings for years and years so I find it odd that they would say no to standing steams to steel and yes to synthetics based on
appearance that's just weird to me you know I I ran into a situation a couple years ago where I was looking at doing a standing seam roof on a historical building where they had a rubber EPDM system which had been invented in the 1980s so and they projected the metal system
so yes I have dealt with these frustrations before where it's you have to have those discussions and I'm not asking the County Board to make a final decision I'm asking the County Board to give staff direction to allow them to move forward because or else we can you
know we can continue to bring this back but I want to see if we can if we're enough at of consensus to pursue standing scam to see if we can make it happen historically and ask the staff to bring us more information we need we need to give the staff more information I think I don't know if we necessarily
need a motion for that I think I think we just have some questions to be generated here in my opinion I'll set up because people yell at me and they can't hear me um I I guess for me and and and this is nothing to you or your company I got to believe
if you guys been around doing a good job I've got pretty thick skin so don't worry yeah me too trust me I've been in your position many many many times um yeah so but you know these these are just valid questions and you know if it comes back that this is the best way to
do it great um but I I think I think we have some options we need to explore potentially even just you know the the architect slash that option what does that look like in a comparison and um I'd check out this insurance cost I i'
put your heads together on the cumulative effect of what's the what do we think the lifespan of that building is going to be I mean we talk about it's the longest standing one west of the Mississippi that's for a reason guys because they've knocked every one of them down because they've deemed they
can't be they can't maintain them anymore you know so if I could go ahead maybe address one of the questions on the expected life of the the existing buildings I mean there's currently I mean you talk about all these guys they're going to be a crack and there a wall going to
there's there's nothing like that currently issues issues with the building um to put it in in context and kind of smirking when you when you said that in November I was in Italy um you in Florence they have uh quite a few big
churches that were like literally 2,000 years old um the the the uh church that was built in the 1600s Renaissance Era they call that the new church um you know our ideas of what's old around here is is kind of novel in comparison to
that but the idea that this building with proper maintenance uh you know it should last hundreds of years definitely Outlast any rof that we're going to put on this year yeah I I I would hope so but we live next to a river too so we don't know what's going to happen there's there's all sorts of stuff and
and those are just things to factor into it you know in the interest of making a decision given staff in Direction because we could probably fire a 100 more questions at these kind folks would it help the staff to have like to begin to focus their their time or is it is it
okay to have the staff worked on all the I just think we need a little more information about what um just other Alternatives other thought processes get an answer to what what are true options are for varieties and so as far as move
this forward you approved the the money in the 2025 budget um so to move that project forward in 2025 we need to put bid doents together which obviously figuring out what rough system kind of is a PR precursor to that and then
advertise for bids bid um award the bid put our contracts together and then the the uh contractor needs to fabricate their materials order their materials which might be two to four months and then you need two months to probably construct the project so if you stack that all together if we get a decision
today we can potentially put this on this fall if we you know kind of move things kick things down the the road a little bit it's it's probably going to be questionable whether you're actually can do it this year if it K if it moves to 2026 is at the end of the world
probably not but um you know you approved it in the 2025 budget and my intent was to make a best faith effort to try to actually do that we only put two million and it's already exactly but I mean well and
there was discussion there was discussion of tariffs earlier and if you know if that affects commodity prices that could change things from Ohio getting tariffs from Ohio um I think I think that we have a obligation
to put a historic roof on a historic structure um it's so the standing seam if it's not correct I don't know why we're talking about it we don't know we don't know that yeah that's number one question and we find that out that was my motion your motion accept Ed the
option of the synthetic slate as the number two dver oh no no no no I wouldn't go synthetic slate every little every little piece that's just asking for if we're talking about when when destroyed the you have us do someone make a mo about the shingles we
haven't heard we don't know historically what they're gonna allow us to put on if they have a decision to make if they're do I want to give the staff some directions so we can get prepared I'm was asking to narrow it down can I please just for a second I don't know this is my opinion I don't believe em
motions and we're not making a decision we're just simply we have some questions could we give back some of the answers that we have can we do standing seam I mean we we we there that's what the motion is well I don't even know if we need a motion though we're just simply it's clear we it tells staff what to do I'm sorry I'm getting we're all getting
Punchy it gives staff a clear Direction but okay no that's what I'm saying yeah hold on hold on I don't believe we need a motion because we're not doing anything we are just simply asking for advice could you
please get us some information I'm trying to just avoid the motion as a whole can you just get us some information can we do the standing scene then we then we can make a motion that we want a standing scene let see if that's even an option give us an option number two could we find out if there's any way that we could get a a something
outside and of this system with Garland okay then uh lost my train of thought here I had it do you have any other local bidder I mean well that that that's what it alluded to but you know getting getting um um that other outside look rather
than this defined company to just have comparative cost to that aspect and then there was one more point and I should have wrote it down so I write things down and I forgot it was the last thing that I wanted you to ask forur yeah the break down in Insurance
yeah the cost breakdown in the insurance and really get a better idea of what that is now keep in mind I'm not going to be here next meeting but I can I can zoom in I can give you my opinion via an email whatever it is for what it's worth
but at least we have some more information on a very large project we have well as much of it as we possibly can can I ask what's the what's the insurance question well the insurance question is is depending on what type of roof I mean every time I do a roof the first
question anytime I buy a building the first question they ask me is how old is it and what's the roof that sets the insurance mcit are there different prices because you're raising the value believe me the insurance is going on what's the
insurance premium difference for these different selections is that the question so there's a there's a right so there's a lot of insurance questions when you're dealing with a very expensive roof that should be addressed too um so there's that and
then sorry I did write some things down that break yeah labor is so and again it's just insurance cost um you know let's just assume it's going to stand for 200 years got the price per square yard down we got the
steel down architect and Builder option and then um you know is there another option outside of working with the company um and go from there that's I think you got everything I mean that's my question I I just don't see the need for a motion till we get some stuff there nothing
grants grants Grant check on the grant that grants written down to yes you got enough info all right we'll move on just bring it back the train has left the station thank you very much very much yes so but we're telling staff just to focus on one
but if I was them I'd be going nuts right now trying to read our minds it's Le towards the the standing okay so but we can tell them to focus on one for to answer all very good questions if that's off the table they spend all time on the one and then that's not allowed it's a
waste that's question to start with is it even allow yeah we need to know if it's allow because it does seem to be the cheapest that's why the motion was to see if we could even pursue it to answer all those questions it is a $2 million item so think we need the motion pursue it they know what we want needs
the right amount of time staff needs to be clear what we're talking I would consult I don't know I hate to say this but who put that original roof on do they feel they owee us anything when they give us a reasonable on a steel let's move on here we all want to
go there but we can't anymore and the last thing any of us want to do is spend $2 million on a damn roof we have a lot of other things we I want to be shiny copper or honey green those colors weren't okay the railroad separate meeting we
gotj have report report back the train vaguely I just want to uh say two things first of all thank you to all of our Law Enforcement Officers for the work they do every day and number two um the discussion about the warming Center
um possibly shutting down I'd like to see if our health and human services folks are aware of that I've been very involved in warm CER in the past that's very to me so I guess marine and I can can you check to see if they're aware of it and can if if they are or aren't can
we start get an update see if the county in the past the county has done to be blunt very little or nothing with the warming Center I think the county can do more okay that's all okay thank you I just wanted I guess I already brought it up and but I stated this quite a while ago I won't be here for the next meeting
I have no idea if I'm going to have the even the ability depending on sure where we're at if I'll be even be able to zoom in it might be more of a nuisance a lot of times the internets at these places aren't very good so um I would just anticipate do you want to send a spending limit for us like $500 anything
more than $500 you have to be yeah yeah sure I fair that look at the agenda if you want something Ted we'll table it yeah we get it y for any so um and that's where I'll communicate back with you we're already working on that commissioner Elon and we'll communicate
what is out there right now and we've already pushed some things to the next meeting um so that we're not having the more confrontational potential yeah yep well thank you that'll be an easy me
um uh the W Advocacy Center wona like to give us a presentation on the use of the funds that we allocated for them for 2024 my question is if they can just
come give the present presentation or if it needs to come through our process they really should contact our department and then we'll schedule them for a time because I'm assuming it's more than two minutes yeah I don't think it's more than two yeah so they should just that I don't have a request for
vcation attorney sonan real quick the elected officials forum is this Saturday at 9 to 11 and there's quite a few of you coming thank you as well as other elected officials um and School Board members and if you want to see a husband
wife go after each other my husband who's on the school board is the vice chair and Miss dener can't be there who's the chair so oh we'll have you seated side by side or table won't be able to get away from you quickly so anyways it's at the History Center
Refreshments um uh it's project fine and legue of Women Voters and the Count's criminal justice coordinating Council and just a real quick comment I think everybody got a late afternoon uh n is putting together a seminar tomorrow I think at 1 1:30 or 11:30 or something
like that uh about the uh most recent uh actions of our um federal government and AMC had their legislative um Monday morning and I know we've gotten some things from uh Micah also um I don't know if people know the Human Service
commissioner is leaving February 3rd just great timing I mean the middle of the budget budget session and she's leaving and I was told tonight Mr Clinger said the emsrb uh depart uh I don't know if they're commissioner uh they left and
aren't they trying to break up the State Department of Human Services yeah they did nitpicked and everything but for the the leader to leave February 3rd in the middle of a budget thing so who knows the the gloves are off I guess is what's happening and we don't know if we have a working legislature or not okay so that
that we'll uh ask for an a motion toj second okay motion by commissioner olon second by commissioner Meer to adjourn any discussion all those in favor say I nay okay we're now let's see I think commissioner Meer you take over this one I want to call to order the
2025a county regional railroad Authority meeting um and the first order of business is that we need to elect a chair a vice chair and a secretary treasurer um are there any nominations that say I'll nominate the commissioner
why don't we do the whole slate okay for would you be up for that commissioner sure and secret treas has no job secretary treas I think has no job I'll do that all right so we have candidates for
every every position quick on that I think there is way to nominate someone volunteered for it V to move by acclamation the whole slate but I can't make I'll still move pass unanimous back okay all those in
favor there we go uh we need to approve the agenda of this meeting I'll move to approve second third any discussion hearing none all those in favor say I I I okay first order of business we need to approve the minutes from last year's
meeting motion by eling seconded by commissioner Ward all those favor any any discussion hearing none all those in favor signifi by saying I I okay motion carries all right so appoint the 2025 member and Alternate to the Joint Powers
Board of the Great River Rail commission with one-year terms beginning January 15 I'll move to appoint commissioner Meyers as the lead and commissioner Ward is the alternate I a second any discussion none all those in
favor by saying any updates um I just have boy I come along the river and I see the trains and the length of trains that sit there and from an emergency uh management perspective the people that live right along the river by Homer I mean they're
blocked in for long periods of time I don't know if we can do anything about it or not but it's it if I lived there I would be quite and there's legal limits on that though you know yeah so yeah that I well that's
just got to get out bit so when my husband was on city council people would text him messages I've been sitting here for half an hour I'm man well yeah but this is down along the river and they just sit there for long periods of time gu the worst one is the emergency aspect yeah yeah somebody
needs something okay any other updates of communications done who could motion motion by second by to all those in favor sign by say one quick one quick comment a standard
seam roof exactly like that standing seam roof generally runs 400 $1,200 square yard are awesome so if you had $1,000 at 178