Oh wow. Cottonwood. >> That's true. All right, it is 7 o'clock. We will call the meeting to order and begin with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Um, we begin with approval of the agenda. Does anybody have any Michael? Do you have anything to add? The only thing uh I did send this out
earlier. There were some corrections in the minutes. We sent that out to everyone. Um the approval for the liquor license is just the annual renewal for Tinker Bay. Um and then we did uh and we did add that in the consent agenda. We
didn't have on the original agenda. >> Okay. Does anybody else have anything to add? >> I so move to approve it. >> Second. >> Motion Kelly. Second by Ed. Any discussion? Any discussion? Any discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I.
>> Oppos. Same sign. Motion carried. Um then the consent agenda. If someone has questions, please ask. Otherwise, someone would like to move to approve. >> Move to approve with the amended minutes. >> I'll second. >> Motion by Ed. Second by Don. Is there any discussion?
>> Any discussion? Any discussion? All those in favor, please say I. I. Follow the same side. Motion carried. All right, we are moving on to the public hearings, our truth and taxation meeting. Um, someone would like to make a motion to open the public hearing. Make a motion to open the public
hearing. >> I'll second. >> Motion second. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. All right. Public hearing is open. Do we have a >> list of who would like to speak? >> Yeah, let's do the quick presentation first. >> Oh, yeah. Yes.
>> Thank you. >> Yep. That's okay. Um, so in 2026, our property tax levy is increasing um as a proposed 17.9%. Um, as council worked through the budget, um, these are the final numbers
um that they were proposing. the um and we we'll get to the cause of the increase um in just a little bit, but this final tax levy uh has been worked on for the last I don't know five
months um at multiple work sessions um whittling whittling away at certain departments. So for spending categories, um I wanted to preference that you know percentages don't always tell the full picture. Um
so in part of this five month budgeting session uh council's choice to put um wages onto our enterprise funds which is again electric, water, sewer, storm uh was taken out of this. So for
context, the like for instance, the police department says that it takes up 50.1% of the budget. Um if you put public works wages, administration wages back in there, uh it goes down to almost 30%. So uh the the graphs um can be
misleading. I'm just saying that the percentages um can be a little bit misleading because of the change from 2025 to 26. Um but 50.1% of our budget that is going on the general obligation bond is going to the police department.
11.3% is going to fire and ambulance. Uh streets and public works most of that is just expenses is 10.8%. Parks is 3.4. General which includes building maintenance and
upkeep and bills um is 19.9%. EDA uh which is um this purple section is 2.7% and the library um which had significant cuts to it this year is 1.8% of the
budget. >> So what caused the most change um as we've seen in the last 5 months and what we've seen statewide with most small governments is a decrease in revenue. uh we will receive $132,000 less than we did last year. Uh in
ambulance alone, that was $62,000 that we're not going to get um year-over-year. Um so that was one of the, you know, largest increases that we saw. About every $10,000 equals a percent in our budget. So if you converted that um
the increase, sorry, the decrease in revenue caused an increase of 13.2% 2% just in that alone. The capital improve imp improvement budget also increased by $78,000. A lot of that was to repay the capital
improvement um as city council deemed two years ago. Um I think it's also important to talk about, you know, we've had a lot of discussions about increased costs from payloaders to how much a new fire truck is. you know, a new pumper.
Gaylord just got theirs. It was $1.2 million. And 10 years ago when we started um doing capex uh for our capital improvements, you know, uh literally that same pumper was 500,000.
So they've more than doubled in price. So I think making sure that we replenish that fund and that we're responsible fiduciaries of that fund is really important. And then ambulance increased by about 60,000. So with lack of
revenue, we also are seeing decrease in payments from Medicare or Medicaid. Uh we'll get into this a lot later. Uh but 90% of the PE individuals using ambulance are either not insured or they have Medicare and Medicaid. And we are
behind on payments by almost 60 grand because of that just this year. Um that's a federal problem. That's a problem everywhere. If you guys have been paying attention to the news, that's pretty commonly. >> Michael, can you just clarify for public
sitting here that it says do decrease in revenue. Can you clarify like what that those revenue streams are? >> Yeah. So, some of it was actually um um like small cities assistance, we no longer get it. The state did not fund it this year. That was around 32,000. Um
ambulance was 62,000. Uh and we just across the board uh we saw decreases in funding sources. So all of that um increase and decrease was about a $210,000 hit to our budget
this year, which is 21%. We saw some good and bad things for health insurance. So uh health insurance for employees at the city increased 19.1%. Um overall year-over-year that was about
a $26,000 increase. Um we did um through the budget process eliminate the library director position which is going to almost even out the health insurance um equation. When we talk about work comp and
property insurance um we had a fairly decent year. Um luckily um you know we had just gone through an audit for work comp. Uh we had a decrease in working work workers compensation insurance and because we increased our deductible for
property insurance we saw a decrease in the yearly rate. Um I think if we only have two claims in property insurance you know which doesn't take a lot will come out about even. If we have more than that, we will
certainly be paying more um for that. Generally, work comp just for reference on why it's on here is normally work comp and property insurance are two of the largest increases. If you look at work comp just for 24 to 25, it almost
doubled. So, um that's usually something that we pay attention to. departments increased spending by 2.1%. This is mostly due to uncontrolled expenses. So, uh it was about $26,000 or about 2.6% of the budget. Um a lot of
that has to do with um you know the fill for the road went up almost 25% this year. Um our quote to do um seal coating for the the town also increased. We just saw in general
increases all over. Um even fuel, we we really thought we would we could kind of throttle some of the fuel costs back this year, but um unfortunately natural gas and diesel and gasoline have all stayed pretty constant. I was going to say the the year prior
though, department heads cut um expenditures by 13%. Um so there was it was less to cut than normal. So this tax table is from the League of Minnesota cities. Um it is
showing if your property value remained constant from 2014 to 2024. Um your property taxes in Winthre the last two years have actually gone down, not up. Again, that's if your property value stayed constant. And this is just
another look for a property value of 250. The other thing that we did um put together on our website um and we talked about this at the last budget meeting. If you put your estimated and this is just on the website we created it. It's
a 2026 tax cut. If you um put in the perceived value, estimated market value of your home, it'll tell you exactly what your taxes are and that should match your statement that you created. And it also breaks it down by department on how much you're
paying. And then with that, Julie, we can call the public hearing. >> Okay. Do we have a list of people who'd like to speak? Is there anyone uh not on the list that came in late that wants to speak about taxation?
Perfect. Uh Mark, you're up first. Mark Sandleman, 703 North Henipin Street, Win, Minnesota. So it would appear that decreased revenues are going to be the new way going forward. I think Somalia gets more of our tax
money than Winthre does. So we cut the library. Would you I think we can do a yes no on this. I know we've got that shield up on public forums. Would everybody here feel that
they did everything reasonably? They considered every reasonable possibility to keeping the budget down. >> I can say yes, we did. I did. I mean, we've gone through it and through it and there was just nowhere else to cut.
>> I was here. >> I watched so everyone would agree. >> Okay. I noticed you didn't look at farming out police to the sheriff.
Carver County, every city except Chaza, Minnesota uses the sheriff's department. And several mayors have told Bobby Harter they'll never go back the other way. They will keep using the sheriff's department.
Does it make sense to maybe cut a city administrator to a half time or a threequarter time? >> I'll talk about a couple >> health insurance. >> We already cut we already cut a position from the front office last year. We're down to two people.
>> Julie, I moved here in 2020 or 2002 >> and I was here. >> And who did we have downstairs? We had four people. We had a full-time EDA director. >> 100,000 a year. >> We had a full-time EDA director. We had a full-time city administrator. We had a
full-time city clerk. And we had a full-time billing. >> And we had Bruce and what? Two part-time cops. >> You know, >> that's what I remember. >> I don't remember. >> Then we had Karen and two part-time cops. >> And we had a lot of complaints about things that are getting taken care of in
the city. >> I never heard it. >> Really? >> Never. Never heard any complaints about semis driving through anything like that. >> So you so you didn't consider everything. >> We have police department. I we have I I
have spoken to a lot of mayors and other city council people in in other communities and um some of them have have gone down that path and there are some cities that have turned back and are now reinstating their police department. >> Well, let's go down the path and see if we want to reinstate. Did Sibi County
say they would not take any other towns? I mean, we did look into this. I thought they didn't have the personnel >> at one point where we were very short staffed. We did. >> I I don't know what the specific direction was, but there's still a cost to contracting with the county. >> Um,
>> and it's going to be a cost that's uncontrolled by us. >> And it's not controlled by us. And if you look at the history of even Carver County, which you just spoke of, um their costs of the cities have doubled in the last two years. So they're paying and I'll disagree with you. We know two
cities right off the bat that are already trying to tunnel their way out of that agreement um and have contacted neighboring cities. And so when we um and Officer Nick actually came from Carver and that's where he was recruited from. So we have some pretty good
connections there. Um, but what we're seeing is that these counties figure out that, you know, it puts more miles on their cars. It causes them to have more personnel issues um because they're spread a lot thinner than normal. And so they have to go and hire
more deputies. Well, that in turn cost gets put onto the town. And so their insurance costs, their wages, their new squad cars, all goes to the city. Go ask the cities that have actually went to county coverage and have been on it for two or three years and their
costs have almost doubled in the last two years. >> Okay, I will give them to me. Who are they? >> I I can give you a list. >> Okay. >> And I I would also refer you back, excuse me, to the um presentation that our police chief did at the last budget
meeting. um the the amount of serious drugs and weapons and and things that we don't think about in Winthre are happening here. And as an elected official, I I it's it's incumbent upon
all of us to provide good services and make sure the community is safe. And when I saw the amount of drugs and guns and other things that that have come through town that were stopped by our police officers, I think that is money well spent.
My bigger point is you considered everything reasonable and I'm pointing out two things that you didn't consider. >> We did consider them. Yeah, we've talked about >> you consider cutting his his job. >> What?
>> You considered cutting his job? >> We've considered We've looked at We've already cut some of the jobs within the city. What happens when the school needs a superintendent? Everybody complains about how much a school superintendent gets paid. The next superintendent coming in, how much does he get paid?
Less than the old one? No. So, I'm just saying when it comes to and and talking about administration, I want somebody that can that understands how to deal with our money. I don't want things to happen uh with the government in this city.
Mistakes to be made, but somebody that's not as u up to date on things. >> There's a lot of high salary in this town. I don't know if you hear it. Everybody says they listen.
I hear it. Martha hears it. >> Can you check the administrator's costs in the other towns to see what they're making? >> I'm not worried about their town. >> That's a quick answer. It's always, oh, that's not our town. I get sick of hearing that. Go out and see what it's
like out there. It's not easy. I want good qualified people for this city. That's what I want. And sometimes to retain those people, it's going to cost a bit. I don't want a revolving door >> because then you're training. >> Yes. >> Yeah. In and out. In and out. That's
what we found out at the county. >> Revolving door of employees cost to train uniforms. Think about that. I understand what you're getting at. How much can a city handle? And that >> we are getting close to that point. How
much can we I >> That's a tough one. And then it comes up to the citizens willing to give up some of the services that they have or that's that's what we have to look at. I mean, if we don't have enough staff or if we
don't have uh enough police, those are the things we have to look at. Then >> you didn't consider everything. That's my point. I I think that's not entirely fair because a lot of discussion went on before we got to the the budget
workshops. You don't think that admin committee and the the you don't think we look at those budgets? You don't think that we talk to people throughout the year? We do. >> If you flash up a slide showing we looked into contracting the police out
to the sheriff. Here's what we learned. Da da da da da. Mark, I've been through that so many times over the last few years. >> We >> I' I've had discussions with numerous people in different communities and so it's not like this has not been discussed. It it might not have come up
in the budget workshop, but but we have looked at it and I I think it's >> so it's one and done. We we don't look at it again. >> We look at things all the time. I I really resent sometimes how you make it sound. It's just ridiculous. You know as well as I do that we have checked into
this. You've been here already when we've talked about the police department and and what what was it three four years ago they wanted to close it up or have the county take it over. >> So what's going to happen if we go to the county things start happening here
because we have no patrolling. >> I got three I drive by three squads. >> They live here Mark. They don't I grew up I grew up in Nicllet. Nicllet doesn't have a police department. the the sheriff drives through once in a while and you know once they're through and they don't come to the western end of the county very much. You there there
just isn't coverage like there is you don't know who those people are. People know our officers. They're they're public. They're visible and they're doing really good things in our community. I I would be I would feel very very disappointed if we didn't have
a police department and those drugs that clearly they you know took care of would be in you know somebody's neighbor's house >> at the candidate forum a year ago. Martha was obliquely criticized as being anti police because she brought up the
sheriff issue. >> We like every police officer we've met. >> Oh, I know. They've helped our family. We have tremendous respect for them. I'm on the budget. That's what we're on tonight. >> I, you know, I would invite you to,
let's I I wouldn't even mind having a discussion about this. We can talk about some of the cities that have tried that and some of the information that we've gathered over the last couple years. I'd be happy to talk about that. >> Share it with us. Share it with all of us. >> Well, you know what, Mark? We'd be here until >> tonight, but in these meetings.
>> You're right. I I would be happy to have that conversation with anybody who would like to. And really, thank you for the input, but in the interest of of keeping going, we really do need to move on to the next speaker. I understand where you're coming from. >> Thank you. Who's up next?
>> I think it says Dan. >> This one? >> No, this one. >> Oh, yeah. Dan. Is it Dan? >> Dan. Yeah. Anybody else? >> Don't just ask who else is. >> What's the last name?
>> I cannot read it. >> Paul. >> No, I can't read it. >> Did somebody sign up? >> Did you sign up? >> Is it Dane? >> Rain. >> Ray.
>> No. No. Not you. >> Oh, Rain. talk from the college. >> I guess I would like to say something but I didn't sign up. >> I guess
in when my daughter was on the council not so many years ago and we're talking about now I know down the road we're talking about um >> want me sign in. I'm Tom Woody 309 South Green, >> but we talked about now we're going down
to the about saving money. We talked about putting a bigger doors in having the police and the ambulance together and that would have saved a ton of money. And the police and ambulance were always together downstairs here for
years and years and years. Yeah, they were before you were even here. They were and and I don't know why. Now we're talking about cutting, you know, we have to cut the librarian and yet I mean I I
defend the police too, but it's a big chunk of our money. And I brought it up at the last meeting. Gibbon has one full-time, >> two >> two full-time >> and one part time. >> Two full-time >> and no part time. >> They have part time. >> They have one.
>> I don't exactly >> potato. But when they said, "Well, they don't live here and you know, they have to have time off." I was in the dairy industry for 40 years. When you're in that business, you're you're always in your business. Cuz when people can't milk, you can't say, "Well, I'm not it's
not my I'm not on quality. I'm not going to the idea that they say, "Well, you have to have time away." I'm sure it's a very stressful job. I I don't can't compare it to what I said, but you know, they don't I said they don't feel their pain. I I said it at the other meeting.
You do. You do. You do because you're taxpayers. You do, too. But some a lot of them are are even members of our community. They still work here. They take checks. And that's not to attack them, but they, you know, but when they're making decisions to help pay for everything, I don't know if you
considered all that. I mean, I'm sure we're talking about a $4 million addition to the the fire department thing to put the ambulances in, right? Pretty close to that somewhere in there. Have we considered all the options? Maybe the old BNR building, Walters building. It's not a Taj Mahal, but it
won't put two ambulances in it and it won't fall down. It's got a new roof on it a few years ago. I mean, but but Mark's talking about trying to figure out money and saving money. I'm not I'm not about advocating to get rid of the police, but in this guy's case, too. I
mean I so you maybe you're you're probably right in there. But when I came here two years ago when they were doing the splash pad and I as on Second Street I asked everybody to go talk to the business people. >> Did they go and talk to the business people? >> Why are we talking about the splash pad?
>> Because now we have a budget problem. >> It's over. >> Okay. But yeah, we took that money. >> It's done. >> Quit talking about the splash pad >> and deification street. Tonight is a truth and taxation for the 2026 budget. >> Get over it.
>> Yeah, you spent the money and now we got no money and now we got to figure out how to take money from other resources. That's my point, Ed. >> That's my point. >> Just for clarification, Second Street was that was a bonded project. Yes, they're tax dollars, but that was a street improvement project. The splash
pad has come out of the cap X funds, and that was money that we had already saved. We are replenishing it now, but it it was money that was already there. So, I I understand where you're coming from and and we do I I wish I could impress upon everybody how much time we
spent on all of those things. You know, just because it doesn't come out completely at a public meeting doesn't mean that we haven't looked at numerous possible locations for ambulance storage. It doesn't mean we haven't looked at other alternatives for police
coverage. They might not have been they might not have been worthy of more than an hour's worth of discussion and it didn't make it to a public meeting. That doesn't mean that the people sitting at this table didn't put a lot of time and effort into it. >> Yeah. I mean, but that's what we're here trying to figure out how to make things
work, right? I mean, that's what you guys are all and I talk to Martha all the time. I talked to you the other day. I mean I mean it's not like, you know, we want it to work. It has to work. We got to figure it out. But like sometimes, you know, it's a Yeah. Now we have a so why beating a dead horse?
Because that was a lot of money that we have a beautiful city but we don't have a lot of businesses and I I'll because the BNR that's gone there I worked there many years so you can say what it is. It's an empty building now and there is and there's a lot of empty buildings >> but we are getting businesses in. I
don't know why we keep hearing that. >> I know they drive down the street. >> They don't look at those >> that BNR. What about everything down Main Street that has been opening up? What about the restaurant? >> You ever say anything positive about those? >> I do say >> What about the growth out at, you know,
the u ethanol plant, uh, Maverick Automotive? >> Yeah, >> the grocery store. >> Let's talk about those. >> It sounds like, you know, you make it sound like we're killing the town. We're not killing the town. Our town is pretty good. And I think >> a lot of the business, they are happy
with the infrastructure that we have for them. Well, like I said, we're trying to figure out how to make things work. >> And I'll tell you what, you know, we had these work sessions that was great because uh we had people coming up here and that's really helpful. I I mean,
it's good to get that input from people. So, when we have a work session, especially on this budget, I think it's great when people come up because we can talk like this. >> Well, I hope so because we're paying for it. Absolutely. I had I got a new school there when you were at the new school the other day. It's a beautiful school. >> Beautiful.
>> Yeah. It's beautiful school. But on the thing when I was at the ethanol plant or at uniform, they were telling me my taxes were going to go up $235. Don't it's going to be cheaper than doing this school. Now you guys are going to have to deal with this school. >> $235. My tax statement says right now
800 bucks proposed for next year. >> How does that taxation for the school? >> That's great. >> It's coming off. >> Yeah. >> We are going to need some help with that school. >> Yeah. I mean, >> why should we have to pay for tearing it down? >> I mean, it's not ours. It's really up to
the school district what they're going to do. But if they choose not to do anything, do we want it sitting there? What Gaylord? >> Yes. Yeah. >> And I think that also brings up something really important for everybody to remember. When you look at your property tax statement and it it showed
an increase, it is not just the city's portion that increased. The school increased, the county increased. If your property value went up, that also impacts the amount of tax liability you have. So, it's it's a complicated
formula and it all it all plays into it. And obviously, the city's levy has an impact on on your bottom line tax amount, too. But it's not just here. So, I would encourage you if you have concerns with the school or the county, go to their truth and taxation meetings, too.
>> Yeah. Well, it's already No, you What are you going to do about it? I mean, it's there. It's going to, you know, we got to figure it out. >> Can I say something? >> Sure. >> You know, to answer Mark's question about the police department, Mark,
there's a town Mloud takes care of. The sheriff takes care of it. They come in there 4 hours Monday through Friday. Friday, uh, Saturday, Sunday, they got to do eight hours. They log. If they
drive through, they can log. Hey, I've been here an hour. How efficient is it? >> So, yes, there is. But you look at the town that they do it in. They find so much drugs cuz I helped them do a lot of drug busts in that town by not having a
cop. So, it's very nice to have a cop patrolling my area. I don't have to worry about my stuff. You don't have to worry about yours. Nobody does. If you go to the sheriff, yes, but it's going
to be limited people and you're going to have more drugs. I'm just answering your question. I don't want to say the town, but that's what it is. You have more problems because you don't have the patrol. I want to hear that from Pat neighbor. I don't want to hear it from you.
>> I don't know that the sheriff will say that. I don't know that the sheriff will do that. That's Mloud County. >> Yeah. I I work for I've seen it. >> I've talked to somebody else. All right. Do we have anybody else? No one else signed in. >> Yes. Just a quick question. Sure.
>> So, I know normally you post the minutes from the websites we will this also this be posted for us to be able to see like go through the presentation. >> Yeah. The are you saying the video or the truth and truth? >> The truth and taxation >> that's on the agenda packet. The whole packet's uploaded. >> Yep.
>> So, we do more deep dive and like when you talk about like um like you know going through the resources and stuff like that. I come from a sheriff's family, so I do kind of have a little bit of knowledge on that. Um, and one of my biggest like uncle's biggest gripes was actually not having the budget to go
to other small towns in their area and it was such frustration because like he wanted to do those things. So with their budget and how that works, is that also something that we can pull like I know like where I'm from originally like in Georgia those like breakdowns of the budgets were public knowledge and you
could actually go are those also like like I don't know how the board >> so if you go to our website and you go to government and you go to city budget >> my internet's a little >> Are you talking about city budget? >> So both city budget but I know that sometimes some counties as well like the
county I'm from that had the sheriff and they just only used the sheriff. They had a budget also broke down for the sheriff in that. So would the county also have we can compare then versus the budget for the city. Thank you. >> Yeah. And this this workbook is actually an entire Excel document that breaks
down every single department and their expenses. >> Okay. Perfect. >> Yep. And it's you can compare it all the way back to 2023. >> Awesome. which is a that's really nice for the public to know too. If if you're wondering, you know, what a particular
budget or department is spending, you can look at that budget anytime on the city website because it is a matter of public record. So, >> can they that's they can email the office if they have a question. Absolutely. >> I mean, because some of the wages are
taken out of different enterprise funds. Yeah, I mean it can get a little bit complex, but we can break it down. >> And I would just reiterate again, and I know we've said it many, many times, but if if you have questions now or in
January or May, um you can contact any one of us. Our our emails are all available on the website. Um my my phone number should be there as the mayor. You please call and ask questions. We really do want to hear from people.
All right. Do we have any Nobody else signed in? Did everybody get a chance to speak if they wanted to during the truth and taxation? >> All right. Then if someone would like to move to close public meeting
>> motion by Don. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second by Kelly. Any discussion? Discussion. All in favor please say I. >> I. sign motion carried. All right. Uh we're going to move on to new business and we will start with the oath of office for
our new parttime officer Nick Ericson. >> Welcome. Welcome. >> Do you want to swear in more appropriate time? >> I'll I'll do the swearing in. Then his fiance is going to do the penny in. So >> cool. >> Well,
I do. Yes. So, councel, this is officer Nick Ericson. Um he comes with a little over a year of experience before coming here and uh he's currently in the FTO phase right now and should be wrapping that up here soon. So you'll see
>> what's what's that for everybody else? >> Yeah, field training. Yeah. So he's in his field training phase right now. U mainly with officer Mitchell hopefully soon he'll be he'll be out on his own probably in the beginning of 2026. So, all right, Nick. Uh, if you
want to put your left hand on your heart, right hand up in the air. I, Nick Ericson, >> I, Nick Ericson, >> do solemnly swear >> do solemnly swear >> and affirm to support the Constitution of the United States. together to support the Constitution of the United
States, >> the Constitution of the State of Minnesota, >> the Constitution of the State of Minnesota, >> and to discharge faithfully >> and to discharge faithfully >> the duties of the office >> the duties of the office
>> of police officer of the city of Winthra >> of police officer of the city of Winra >> to the best of my judgment and ability. >> to the best of my judgment and ability. >> So help me God. >> So help me God. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. Very nice. >> Okay. Um then we're moving on to 5.2 two under new business um which is the resolution
2025-34 the final tax levy for fiscal year 2026. So all of the budget meetings and all of your time have come down to this. If someone would like to make a motion regarding the budget. I move to pass the fiscal year budget of
2026. >> Motion by Don. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second by Ed. Any discussion? >> Any discussion? >> Any discussion? Does it have to be unanimous?
>> No. >> Okay. >> Um all in favor, please say I. I. >> Oppose. Same sign. >> No. Motion carried with council standalone dissenting. All right. Um we have our budget
established. Um out of the frying pan into fire 5.3 is the fire ambulance cost and township contribution. This is justformational but there's a lot of information here.
>> Yeah. Uh, and so I I um we're going to go down rabbit holes really really quick, but I'm just going to read this statement and then we're going to review some financials and then we're going to review the three different ways that we've kind of given townships the the options. So there is a
crisis in rural healthcare. I will tell you that um since I've come here um if you haven't been reading the news I can I've saved I don't know 25 articles about healthcare in rural Minnesota and honestly anywhere in the United States.
Um but it begins with EMS and fire. Over the past two years the city of Winthre has been paying for a majority of the EMS costs on the western half of Sibi County. It is expensive. It continues to have shortfalls and we need new solutions. This conversation isn't about
staff presentation solutions, but rather having a conversation about where to go from here. So, I'm not looking for you guys to make motions or find solutions tonight. It's we just need some guidance. Um, so presented in tonight's agenda packet is a recap the last two
years of the meetings. So, that's why the agenda packet was 130 pages long. Uh, we can also provide additional information and we're going to go through some of that tonight. But the quick of it is is we've tried to come up with a better solution for cost sharing and the majority of townships have not signed the contract nor have they
responded. We've received a lot of push back from the townships letting us know that their unwillingness to help pay their equal share. We've also as staff presented many types of agreements and arrangements for firing EMS taxing districts with no results. So tonight we
are going to review the current billing that we've used to send it to townships and uh the city of G in for EMS and then agreement with some alternatives can be presented at the February meeting. Uh our contract with the townships always
has the meeting in February. I think it's also important to note that this is not a Winthrop issue. Um this is an issue everywhere in the state of Minnesota. um when we reach out to the EMSRB, which is the governing board for EMS,
um it's she wasn't surprised to hear from us. We're the second largest volunteer territory in the state of Minnesota and um it's just not working anymore. >> I think that bears repeating. Winthre is the second largest in geographic area
>> volunteer volunteer >> in the state. We cover a lot of territory. >> Yeah. Um, so our current billing, uh, uh, I just quick quick numbers together because I think it's important to understand. Um, let >> me just throw something in here.
>> Hi. >> So about three weeks ago, I was paged to a residence and it was in the almost furthest southwest corner of our territory.
I was running code three. So that's, you know, between 70 and 75 miles an hour. And it took me 27 minutes to get there. Code three. That just gives you an idea of how far away we go.
>> What does code three mean? >> Lights and siren. >> Fast high flow gas. >> High flow gas. That's how you high flow gas. Just just wanted to throw that out there. You know, we say we have a large
territory and some people don't really even even my wife didn't realize that we went that far away. >> That is good context. >> And there are some larger districts that are up north, but they're actually split between multiple satellite um EMS
stations and not just in a central location. Um so she wasn't surprised that we were calling. Um, I don't know if you've heard, but Cottage Grove, Minnesota went pretty viral recently. They were on WCCCO.
They um they served four communities uh and three of them they felt just were not paying their fair share. So right now um and I should say for ambulance for a very long time um no one
was really paying uh anything because ambulance at one point made money right Medicare and Medicaid were paying supplies were lower. Um it was just cheaper at that time to operate an ambulance and the return on investment
the return on each call was pretty high. um that's just not the case. You know, since 2017, ambulance has not made money, not one year. Um and without donations from the community, um it continues to lose money.
So, ambulance received um 14,59250 for contributions from the townships this year. Um so, everyone pays per section. It's $65 per section. uh city of Gibbon pays per
call um and that's why their figure is a little bit higher of the ambulance calls two years ago 55% of them went out of the city of Winthre this last year um it was we actually had more calls in Winthre than outside
um and so it was more like 65 stayed in and the rest went out which is a big deal I mean knowing that almost 50% % go outside of the city and we're not getting reimbursed that 50%.
It becomes a really no business would run their model as a revenue non generator, right? You wouldn't stay in business. Fire um is very similar. So when we first started talking about this in
2022, uh that contribution amount, that's why it's highlighted, that $30,000 was only $14,000. They were only paying $175 per section. So the four townships,
Alsburg, Bismar, Cornish, and Transit, all have our fire and EMS protection. Currently, they pay 375 per section. We upped it. We more than doubled it. And so their contributions to the city for
fire was $30,000 this last year. Um, so the numbers below are the scary numbers that we really don't want to talk about, but we have to. In 2024, ambulance lost $220,000.
That's with purchases and not getting reimbured calls and capital expenditures. and fire lost $64,000. In 2025, ambulance lost so far this
year, they've lost $64,000. And that's with the contributions already in the formula. And um fire has actually gained 19,000. And I want to highlight that because we did fundamentally different things with fire building this year than we've never
done. Number one, we upped the amount that we charge per resident. That was at the the suggestion of the townships that we start charging more um and that we charge per hour. So, if we're out at an extensive field fire or factory fire,
that um property owner is charged $1,000 per hour. We were out at one of the field fires this year and their bill came to almost 10 grand. Because we were there a very long time. The insurance company covered
it, but there was a lot of questions uh about the billing practice. So this year right now, we are going to lose $45,000. Again, that 30 grand is already factored in.
So that's pretty scary. And um right now our contract is um option C. We continue to use the formula and we increase the cost share of the services.
Um there's a lot of things that there's a lot of problems with that formula. Um, not only does Winthre bear the responsibility of handling ambulance, but we also bear all the
responsibility for workers compensation and property insurance and liability insurance. That's really not factored into their formula. Heather spends a significant amount of time with our billing company. Um,
so there's things that are just not factored in there. And not only that, but just like fire, that ambulance sitting in the bay costs us money every single day, whether it runs or not, right? It's got to be plugged into electric. We still have to have supplies ordered. There's always
something um that is causing an expense. I'll just give you an example. About a week ago, maybe this was two weeks ago now, the spring broke in the ambulance bay. It just snapped. We had to get it replaced.
>> The garage door. >> The garage door. And um that expense in the formula that we have right now doesn't really share the costs. That's a good sign. Uh doesn't really share the costs with our other um
townships. Now, I will tell you that the new contract that very few townships have signed does spread that cost out, especially on ambulance. We only pay 44% and then it's pushed on to the rest of the cities and townships.
But again, hardly anyone has signed it. In fact, we tried to sign it last year and they came up with more suggestions which caused us to delay yet again. We also could create a special taxing district. So the taxing district would include everyone. Um it includes
representation from each township and person involved with that. It gets really difficult with EMS. >> Yeah. >> Unlike fire, EMS is not considered a service under the state of Minnesota.
Uh ambulance is not considered a service. Only fire and police are considered services. And because our fire district and our ambulance district do not align, meaning they are not the same,
it would cause us to not only have a fire district, but we'd have to have a separate ambulance district. And so we would have two boards. There's also taxing problems with that. um that we don't have to get into, but
there are certain um exemptions when it comes to that, including you know, like what's the cost of having the service go all the way to Malti Township and do they pay more because we have to drive
further and they cause more wear and tear on the taxing districts get really interesting because it puts everyone at the table and they have to have that conversation and figure out the formula. And then um what was suggested to us is the League of Minnesota Cities and the
Minnesota Township Association actually already have an agreement and that was included in your packet. But the agreement um the invoices that we generated to show them what it would cost per year got a lot of negative feedback. In fact, I
think there was a letter letter to the editor. Um, >> and what they failed to realize is that that agreement, um, really solves a lot of problems. Um, we no longer would have to go back to them and say, "Hey, we're going to buy
an ambulance. You now you have to start budgeting at the township level. Um, it included all of that. It included improvements to the um, service trucks and engines and it also included all the expenses. Was it more
per year? Yep. But it also includes a capital improvement budget. >> So with that, I think staff is just trying to look at how do we want to approach this and where can we go from here
and what questions council has so that when we go to the February meeting um we can have these conversations and try to move the move the dial forward. >> Okay. this with emergency service agreement. Is this the contract you're
talking about? >> We Yep. So that was the one that we currently have. >> All right. And the 410 per section would be 410. >> So 410 is this year. So there that amount is actually going to go up this
year from that 30,000. I think we I think it's 35,000 is what it would collectively go up to. And then the 421st section is the next year. And if we do run into an overage for whatever reason,
do they share in those costs? I mean, so they never used to. But they are now. Like this year when we get the end of our budget, we are going to send them an extra bill. And there in lies the problem. So they are not
obligated to pay that bill per state statute because ambulance specifically is a service or is not a service and so they technically don't have to pay it. Now I would assume that they're going to pay it because they want the service to exist >> the section per section. They do pay
that or is that what you're talking about? >> They do pay per section but I think we're going to get push back when we send them the bill when we say hey we're we're over budget by $64,000 now. here's your portion. I think there's going to be a lot of push back
and then where do we go from there? >> And we did not send them the entire bill for the overages last year. >> We did not >> because no one had signed the contract. I appreciate the farmers and all that they do, but just like everybody in
sitting in here right now, we pay our share for that protection and we have to have different equipment for out there also. They should have to pay whatever we are paying. >> Yeah.
>> And and I always come back to there are other you know not measurable costs. All the volunteers, >> all of the ambulance crew and fire department except for maybe one or two who live right on the edge of the city, they're all city residents. So, you
know, that service doesn't exist without th those volunteer hours. And especially for ambulance, it's in the thousands of hours per year. And that's a that's a real cost to our citizens. >> How many townships have not signed a
contract? There are four that have not signed >> out of how many? >> Six. >> Six. >> The frustrating thing to me too is the agreement that we went over with them was the work was done by the League of Minnesota Cities which represents the
city's interests and the Minnesota Township Association is the you know which represents townships and they came to what they thought was a good agreement between the two that balanced their compet you know their competing and shared interests. But um it it
didn't get much discussion. Well, it got some discussion, but it wasn't. >> And that agreement invoice is on on the screen, and I can kind of go through it because it's not a very hard formula. But so, um each township
from the state of Minnesota already has their estimated market value. And so, we use that, uh in the formula. Um we also take their population. So of the service district they are 12.81% of the population
and I should go back the estimated value of that 23.04% 04% that's out of all the townships and the city of Winthre they are 23% of the value of that pi and then you get the total uh which is by percent
and then you divide by three um which is the three estimated market value population and the total amounts which gives you a 15.28%. So you take that 15.28% 28% and times it by the operational budget that we set
every single year. And that's how much money they would put in. So, they would get a $22,000 bill. Not ever. Well, I mean, it's probably going to go up from there. I I'll just be honest. Um, I don't think things are
going to get cheaper, but what they um what you have to wrap your head around is that the amount of money that they're putting in now would save them later. So, we wouldn't go back to them and say,
>> "Hey, by the way, the $1.2 $2 million pumper that we have to order. You don't we don't go back to them again and say, "We need your $250,000." Now, that is included in the $22,000 aotment
>> as long as we're putting it away. >> Yes. And we would it would be restricted funds. >> So, this is the League of Minnesota Cities and the Township Associations. This is what they said. There was only like five districts that are on this
that we could find examples of. Um the great thing for townships is that they budget on a bianium. So every two years they budget and um a lot of the feedback is there no more up and downs. >> Yeah. The other thing that you know we
can certainly talk about is right now some of the townships um they don't pay outright for their portion and then we charge them an interest um to go buy equipment. So maybe that also needs to end because it
gets pretty expensive for the city to bear the entire portion of that. But this is just one of the formulas that works. The per section formula the problem with is it it barely covers the expenses and you just never know. It
doesn't plan for the future and it's really hard to plan anything when you don't know what's coming in. >> Could I ask Adam a question out there? >> Absolutely. >> Adam, when it comes to the fire department, and I don't know this, are there special things that you are
buying for? Is there special equipment that you have at the fire department because you go out uh into the country for calls as compared that you wouldn't have if you were just in the city of Louisville? >> Our two tankers and probably our grass right here are probably the biggest ones
that benefit the townships. >> But would we have at least one tanker? I mean as a city. >> Yeah. >> A pumper, a tanker, and >> rescue. Yeah. >> Okay. That's an extra. >> Yeah. The tankers are probably the most
crucial for them >> out there. >> Yeah. >> And right now our agreement says that we pay 50% of it. >> Do you ever use the takers in town? >> We have just, you know, when there's some some of the water main lines that
are smaller. >> Yeah. >> We don't And then Troy knows some of the maybe ones that are coming up that are going to be needed a little bit TLC. We don't want to. >> Yeah, I was going to say something could happen. I think it's important for us to have it. >> So, yeah, we we have
>> we like to we have plenty of holes that we can jump a block to find a different main too if that be. And another thing that always strikes me about this, you know, it it all comes down to dollars and cents at the end, but really, you know, we it's not that
the city of Winthre and our fire and ambulance service doesn't want to provide that service to our rural neighbors. I I think we all do and we value that. Um, but it's we're dealing with budget issues and I know they are
too, but it it's really >> Exactly. It's unfair. It's inherently unfair for us to be paying extra for the service out to their properties. >> Yeah. And I mean, I think that's where the conversation needs to go is, you
know, where do we go from here? What are their options? I mean, can they go with someone else for fire? >> They absolutely can. In fact, council's option is to alert the EMSRB board that we're no longer doing any service runs outside of the city of >> Winthrup.
>> Um, what would happen then is they as the governmental body, they have to go out and provide service from somewhere. It is required by state statute. So, that means they have to go to either Lafayette, Fairfax, Yeah.
We're an agricultural community. I don't want to say that we don't want to serve them. >> No. No, we don't. But we don't want to pay for it. >> Exactly. But >> I mean, >> they have to pay >> whatever that cost is. >> I bet you if we went and talked to some of these township residents, they would
say, "Absolutely, I want to pay, >> but you better get that across to your township board." And and I so moving forward, we in the in the last I don't know how many years. I've been on council for 10 years and I think it's been about the same. Usually
it's one or two council people go to that meeting we have with the townships once a year and we kind of go back and forth and we disagree and everybody sort of walks off to their corners. But and last the last year's discussion um felt
like it didn't get anywhere fast. So, um I think our approach this year is that it has to be that this is a this is really truly coming from the city council at this level and we need to come to an agreement with >> Can we invite the board to a meeting? Uh
>> can it be a meeting or a work session? >> Yeah, we can do it in January before >> Yeah. >> the contractual committee. >> Yeah. >> Is that what you guys want to do is have a January work session? >> I think that's a good idea. >> Yeah. I would rather have them out here
talking. >> So, do we want to do that before the >> Probably >> February. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, >> yeah, let's >> I'll send that out and see what date works best. Are Monday nights still
the best for everybody? >> Monday nights are good. >> Okay. Um before we get off this topic, I think that it's also really important to understand that, you know, we um we swung really hard last year at the
cadet program and right now downstairs there's two fire cadets going through firefighter one. Um we have four new EMTs this year. Um and four going through a refresher CL. Um, that's a big
deal. I mean, most people are losing EMTs and thinking about hiring services. Um, you know, the idea about um hiring Alina or Ridge View or Hutch Health or whoever, um,
number one, uh, we don't have the facility right now that they would operate out of there. There's no way they would operate out of our current facility. Um, and number two, it's really uncontrolled expenses. And, uh, if you remember the discussion with
Gaylord, um, their expenses went up $125,000 this last year >> for the ambulance. >> For ambulance alone, does Michael, do you know what they're paying Ridge View to come in to? >> I think it's almost 300,000. >> What is it? >> 300. >> Yeah. Well, that would be our other choice.
>> Yeah. Think about the impact that would have on our budget. >> Yeah, it's extremely expensive. So, I know that we're paying, you know, money to get these cadets through the program, but those cadets are in the long run saving us hundreds of thousands of dollars.
>> And it's, you know, when they get in the ambulance, they care about the community that they serve. And we have a backup ambulance that got used seven times this year, I believe. And it's more than that.
>> I'd have to look. But it was a lot. And I mean, I don't think any other community around us could have done that because they know when the pedagoger goes off, they have to run. And so those cadets have worked out really well. I know there was a lot of skepticism around um training them to be EMTs and
EMRs, but they've done a really good job. Um, and so I think, you know, part of that conversation is we're trying to provide the best service that we can, but we just need everyone else to buy in. >> And, um, if they want to preserve that, it's going to be really important
because if council goes out and says, you know what, forget it. We're just going to go with Ridgeview and we're going to tack on I mean, the budget you thought this year is bad. just wait because that is uh that's a 30% increase
right there. >> It also has to help farmers in our area having a police department this or police fire department disclose. Absolutely. Same with ambulance. >> Oh yeah. It has a definite impact on on insurance. >> Yeah.
So like Michael said, we took a big stab at this that program and I would say it was uh moderately successful at this point. When we do it again, it may not be this
year, it might be next year, we might do it on every two-year thing or something like that. It will not be as big as it was this year. it was it was too large and too many people to manage. And then you know what we've done in the
past always is we invite other cities to send people that want to go through the ENT class and then that city pays for their cost. Additionally, back to the budgeting issue with the townships. We currently
have two pieces of equipment that are at the end of their service life to the tune of about $100,000 for both of them. And um are they mandatory? No. Are they life-
saving? Yes, both of them are, you know. So, um, that's something else we need to we need to think about, too. And I don't know if you guys saw it on Facebook that there was a, you know, we recently put out a plea, you know, well, we could use donations for these two pieces of
equipment. Why are they? >> Well, one of them is our our life pack, our defibrillator, and our cardiac monitor. And the other one is our uh automatic CPR machine. >> I got to ask why we aren't having
fundraisers. When I shared that, I said they'll be coming. >> Yeah. >> CO hit us. >> Yep. They will be coming. Yep. And we've had that discussion amongst the group. >> Yep. >> So, yeah. >> So, hopefully everybody will support the fundraisers.
>> Yep. Happening. >> Yeah. And it, you know, always makes me think it's it's easy to listen to this and go, "Wow, that is a lot of big numbers and bad news." I think the thing that we can all take from it is if you
see somebody who is a volunteer in the ambulance or the fire department, say a heartfelt thank you. The the what they provide for our community is just it it's too big to measure. You know, um when you think about that we have that
service and what it means. So >> that's one active thing. >> I don't think a lot of people realize it until they use that service. Fire, house fire. >> Yep. CPR on your relative. >> Yeah. >> And your property insurance will go up
if you don't have a fire department. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. It seems reasonable what we're asking. I'm not sure why there's so much. I want to hear the other side. I would like to hear them >> and we'll arrange that for January.
We'll find a date. >> Good discussion. Good. >> All right. Um, thank you Michael and Heather for putting together a lot of that information because I know that you two have spent a lot of time researching a lot of that for us. Um, all right. So,
we are down to 5.5 5.4. Um, ambulance building and fire hall rehabilitation. >> Yeah. So, I want to say to council that this conversation I know that we've been working on this for two years. Um, it's because every solution that we come up
with, we really analyze. There's a group of six that get together off hours and try to find the best solution for our communities. And we have gone from let's build it over here to nope, that's too expensive because of the soil moings to
we got to scale the building down. And I mean that's why it has taken two years. What we have >> to we have to scale the building down again to we have to scale the building down. I mean it was multiple times >> and we the group has looked at uh for
the time I brought up with the uh VNR building >> and what were some of the reasons that wouldn't work? I know there's >> Yeah. So the I don't know which building it was the non brown building the building that used to be the BFW. >> Um that building
is not long enough so you can't fit both ambulances in. So, any thing we did with that building is going to cost us money to replace and rebuild anyway. Um, and our code enforcement officer had some pretty large concerns
over the rafters in there. Um, specifically how they were altered. Um, the brown building is just not wide enough far big enough. Like you'd have to add on to it. Can you add on to it? what are the soil boring conditions
there? Um, it it also puts us with additional old buildings that we're maintaining and trying to take care of. And that also has a cost, a yearly cost. I mean, the building that is back here um
that houses our backup ambulance, and I'm not kidding about this, it is almost end of life. like it needs new foundation, it needs something. The cracks are getting bigger. Um the back of the building, you can
literally just push bricks in. Um we've try to shore it up as best we can so that obviously we don't want our ambulance, but I mean there are some serious concerns about the building. >> The other thing I want to touch on was um the old ambulance bar. >> Yeah.
>> What were the main issues? I know it was structurally that the walls were bowing out. It was the insurance company that pretty much said, >> "Yeah, you're done." >> So, it was actually the League of Minnesota Cities Trust Insurance, our our property insurance. Um, so they put a roof on it a long time ago and um that
actually is pushing the the walls. >> It was originally a flat roof and they put a pitch roof. >> Yeah. And it it was probably loadbearing, not the best thing to do for that building. Um, so the walls, the walls that are actually in the bay areas are actually pushing out and down. Those
cracks every single year get worse and worse. The where the fire department meeting room is, um, according to Darren, uh, was missing an I-beam underneath it. And if you go down there and walk over that floor now, you can
really tell that it is not supported by well, anything. Um, and then there was just some utility um, issues with that building. Um, you know, the boiler is kind of like up here. You turn it on and you let it go.
It doesn't have a thermostat. It just is on or off. >> They got I thought we had some estimates on fixing some of that stuff, too. >> Yeah. I think in 2022 when city council condemned it, um, I think it was half a million to 700,000. Yeah, it was
>> um and that was not with a remodel. That was just fixing >> the things that were wrong. >> And you know, we brought it up to council a couple times and to that group uh the ambulance fire group a couple of times and most of it um get shot down
pretty quickly. >> And they're not just sort of like, oh, there's a crack there. There's cracks that you can see. >> Oh, yes. >> You can see daylight through. So it they're not just little hairline cracks in the plaster.
>> And so um what we're proposing and you know this is justformational at this time. We're not going any further than that, but we wanted to give you guys an update on where we were at with the building. and it's really um attaching it to the
current fire building um and meeting some needs that we that we need as a fire and EMS. Um one of the first needs that they needed was a a train somewhere where they could actually host training.
Um tonight's a great example. Uh you know, generally the fire cadets come up here and they train in this room. downstairs is fine, but when you get a large EMS or EMT class up here, this room just cannot handle the needs of the
department. I think for both EMS and fire, the other um thing that we constantly heard at that meeting is if this meeting is fine for training, but then anytime you want to go demonstrate something, you have to get up and then you have to go down to the fire hall or you have to get up and go down to where
the ambulances are. um which doesn't sound that bad, but you know, fire department people are like hurting cats. You know, you all got to get there at the same time and then you're wasting all that time trying to train. So, that was one of the big asks um from fire and EMS is that if we're going to build this
thing, we have to have a training room. Um the other um thing that they asked for is uh OSHA regulates a decon room. Um we currently do not have one at fire or EMS. Um >> decontamination. Yeah, decontamination
room. Sorry. And um the other um the other items are to address some of the things that are in the current fire hall that need to be addressed, including an air exchanger um and some actual additional heating units. And um the roof leaks pretty
significantly on the west side of the building. Um and it needs to be addressed. I will tell you that, you know, because of some of these things, we've had equipment um damaged or destroyed, the jackets from the fire department, they'll go to a fire, they
come back, and their jackets a day later are still wet because there's just no air movement uh in that building. So, we wanted to address that as well. Those were some of the the main asks for the new building. I'm going to go down to the color
portion because it makes more sense. I'm going to walk through the building, but if you guys want to know more details, just stop me and I'll try. Um, this giant gray space is obviously the existing building. Um, there's nothing
wrong structurally with that building. We just need to again um do some HVAC uh repair and some replacement. the what the engineers are calling that core area, this kind of highlighted area
with the storm shelter. Um that is addressing some of the concerns that we have. You'll notice at the top on the north side 105 they all have numbers. Um and I can make it go bigger. Uh it it includes a decontamination
room. Um not only is that required, but it's OSHA required. Um, and you'll notice that the door is coming directly off the fire department because that's where it's needed the most. >> And let me just toss this in here, too. So, they come from the fire into the decon. They shower off in there. And
then they go in, they can go into the bathroom, the toilet and shower, and clean their bodies because the decon really is more cleaning the equipment than their bodies. So, that the toilet is there for that. So, for instance, one of the fires um
that they they went to uh this past year had um a lot of propane and chemicals uh included in the fire. That is honestly a situation where there should have been a decon room um or a muddy room, a dirty room as some of them uh call it um so
that they could get clean before they went home. Then, um the SCBA room uh the fire room and some storage. again nothing more than some closet space. They're like 8 by8.
The kitchen is a little bit special. So be and this will be for any building that we create. Um for EMS or fire state statute now requires us to have a storm shelter which means it has to have and function independently
um from the rest of the building. So for instance, the school also has this exact same configuration. They also had to develop a storm shelter because city, sorry, state code, excuse me, requires it. Um, we knew that the fire department
wanted a kitchen anyway for their fundraisers. Um, right now they don't have anything um because the old kitchen was ripped out. So this would kind of solve that problem, but that is rated for an F5 tornado.
Um, it would, you'll notice that the mechanical room is actually inside the boundaries. We solve that. Most storm shelters have a mechanical room onto themselves. Ours will just have one. Um, it will be selfunctioning. It'll still
have air going through it. If something happens, it includes its own toilet. Um, but that's where that storm shelter comes. And honestly, any building that we build now has to have it. And it has to have um it has to have the capacity
of I believe 58 people um because that is the amount that we have on fire and ambulance on the offset that they're even there at the same time. Uh so then we get move away from the core and you'll notice that EMS support
that is just a storage room and then uh they have a toilet in the hallway and then it just has two ambulance bays. That's they're as short as we can make it. You'll notice this gray area um tan gray, whatever color that is. That's
actually how large it was designed to begin with and we had them scale it back per square foot. Um the corridor isn't really anything but a hallway. It's just a fancy name for hallway. Um and then we have the other ass for the fire and EMS. The
middle section is the training room. It's just a open room with tables and chairs. Um, nothing special about it, just functional. And then we have the EMS open office area. Again, that's for them
to go file the reports to decompress, to talk about the events of what happened. Um, it also gives Ed an area with his vice captain to um, uh, have meetings if they need to. Um,
same with fire. So, the fire office would be the same um, on the opposite side of the building. So, um, all in all, this is kind of where we're at. Uh, we haven't gotten estimates yet. We haven't really done
anything. We wanted to update council on, you know, where we were at with the process and get any feedback. Um, there is a mezzanine above, uh, on this top level for storage. Uh,
we asked them to get rid of it at the last meeting and they said it actually it doesn't add to the cost of the building because it has to have a a roof and a tipped concrete anyway. So, um, there's still areas that we can skim and save. Like for instance, all the
windows, you know, Ed doesn't need to see outside. So, you know, some of those windows are going to be pretty expensive because they're full length floor to ceiling windows. >> How do you access that messy mess? >> It's actually in a staircase.
>> There's a staircase. >> Oh, that's what this is. >> Yeah, it's actually >> How high is that in there? It's not very high. >> No, it's it's >> so that could be a sleeping area if we ever went with the MS. >> So, the idea about a sleeping area uh we
killed that about six months ago. >> I know. >> So, the reason that we killed it is because in order to have a sleeping area inside a building, state code requires really heavy duty walls and it gets very expensive. So, Darren, our code enforcement
officer, said, "You know what you should do? if he ever comes to that, just build a separate house across the road, across somewhere else, and it follows normal residential codes. >> Um, he said it will save you over a
million dollars than building these really expensive firewalls. So, like slab on grade, think, you know, manufactured home. That's what a lot of these communities are doing to get around that because it is extremely expensive to build sleeping quarters inside a commercial building.
>> The sleeping quarters would be if >> if we ever had to go to a paid department or a full-time service. >> Okay. >> So, not necessary now. So, that's you know we eliminated it from this >> right
>> uh particular plan. Michael, go back to A210, will you? >> Where do you want me to go? >> A210. That's the colored >> kitchen. I don't know. >> Yep. Scroll down a little bit. Uh that gray area on the on the south side right
there on the bottom. So, when we first went to this plan, um that was what uh the committee had asked for. for that um training room to be that
large and then the offices to be that large. Um again, we figured figured out that we didn't really need it that big to start with. Um so we scaled that area back. We scaled the uh brown area in front of the two ambulances. Um if we
ever need to put a chase vehicle or something in there, then we can expand out there. And there was also on the north side um we had a section we had a >> full truck bay.
>> Um Michael he's wiggling his mouse. There was a full another full truck bay that went the entire length of that um that we took off. >> And it was as large as this. >> Yep. >> That we took off. So, um,
we've done there was there was a lot of thought process into this particular plan and I think we're down to where we can't get much smaller. So, no one's brought up funding. So, um,
for a funding mechanism, this would be a USDA loan. uh we wouldn't go through normal bonding um mostly because USDA gives us a very reasonable interest rate and they allow us to go out to 30 years. So it really
reduces the amount of payments we make um per year. >> What do you mean >> reducing? So, most bonds won't let you um most bonds are usually about 20 years
>> and that's just pretty typical >> because by the year by year 20 your building is actually probably depreciating in value meaning you have to you know replace the roof or mechanicals or whatever. >> Um so they they only allow you to bond for about 20 years. with USDA
um emergency service buildings, they allow you to go out to 30 years so that it lowers that yearly payment. >> Um >> and and you said something about the interest. Is the interest that much? >> The interest is almost two 200 basis
points different. So 2% different than what the >> the APR is normally. >> Okay. >> Makes a difference. But again, I think, you know, this building plus the conversation with the townships and other cities saying we're
going to have to have a new building one way or the other. If we get a new service, they're not going to operate in the buildings that we have. >> Right. >> I mean, >> you're saying if we hire out to >> if we hire out a service, if >> the nuclear option comes and we have to
go hire a Ridge View in 10 years, >> do they have to be stationed in with because we service the entire western half of the county. I would assume that the EMSRB is going to make them.
>> It would be nice to have >> Yeah. >> I mean, if it came to that >> there there's I mean certain aspects of the EMSRV board that they look at. Um >> when you were talking about the problems with the current fireh hall, uh the air
exchanger was one that you're talking about adding some heat. Um, were you talking about a new roof on there or what? >> Um, I don't think a fully new roof. We haven't >> patch and repair. >> Is that just flat roof? >> It's a slope.
>> It's sloped. >> It is. >> It's all the problems have all come from the three years of hail that we had. And there's just a minor design flaw on that one side where a a vent pipe went
through. It's really close to that new wall. So I think I think the city had said Schmidz were the contractor at the time. I think they were up there multiple times trying to trace it down and just >> been able to locate.
>> It's a it's a single slope this way. >> These slopes to the south. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So from here, council, I think if you don't have any other recommendations for design, what we'll do is we'll try to get some estimates.
It probably won't be January. They still have to do soil borings, um, which didn't get on the council agenda because I just got it back, um, and I want to look at it. Um, and then they have to do survey to make sure that it still fits on the lot size.
So, um, you know, maybe February, January, February, somewhere in there, we'll bring it back with cost estimates, USDA approval, that type of stuff, so that we can see what um, council's wishes are. >> And they would resside the old fire bar
so everything matches. >> Yes, it would get reskinned. And I think their recommendation was to actually go over the old I think that's what their recommendation was. And they're also putting windows on the, you know,
southside again. If costs get too out of control, that's something that we can easily take out. >> And the new section, is that flat roof or is that going to be slanted? >> It's all slanted. >> It is. It's slanted. >> Even the >> Oops. Even this one is actually
gradually slanted >> 501. Yeah. >> So again, I think that the the design that is taking us quite a bit of time solves some of the main issues that we see um specifically when it comes to that
training room, some offices and just being in the same building. Um so that when there are when they are having meetings, they are having trainings, they can easily access their equipment. Um I think also, you know, just because I'm an election judge, I will tell you
that having elections in the in the fire hall is not ideal. Um I know Troy likes getting up early to move all the fire trucks, but that training room would be the perfect size also for all the elections. It's it would be way easier to access. Um, it is definitely
something that we can explore if we build it. >> Scroll down to A700. Let's say isometrics all the way to the bottom. >> Am I going >> second to the last page? Nice.
>> I think you Yeah, that's it. >> Go one more down >> right there. That's a pretty good depiction of the size of the rooms. kitchen is the storm shelter area is not
really very big, but it's big enough to house those that requirements and Michael referenced it, but the amount of time that that committee has put into um this project already is
extensive. I I've started attending the meetings the last probably four three four months something like that and they were they were working on it long before that. So um they really have donated a lot of time to that project. >> Meetings are so much longer now.
>> I just I open my mouth most of the time. I defer to the people who know about fire and ambulance. All right. Um, we're done with new business then. Moving on to old business. Um, 6.1, the RFP for a speaker
system. >> I got no one. So, we did send out some emails. Um, the cable commission, Wade Warner, gave me some like, hey, these are some no one has called us back. So, I don't I don't know if they're not interested or it's
going to a dead email, but I have not received anything. We're going to go out again and see if we can get some people to help. >> I sent you a text of the company that we use for our church. >> Thank you. Check text.
>> Okay. Um, so no action on that. Um, committees, notices, updates. Michael, what do you have? Um just on the EDA side, uh we're continuing to have discussions about the Hans dining and restaurant. Um there was just some
changes at the bank that has kind of delayed some of this uh at the Hutchinson branch, not our local one. So we'll have more information with you for next meeting. I assume they'll close on the building within the next week or two.
>> Okay. >> Any other questions for Michael? Um, we'll just move down fire. Adam, you got >> something for us? >> You don't have to moan coming up and talking to us. >> Well, it's not good news. It's not
terrible, but >> Okay. >> Um, I just wanted to bring it to us cuz it a couple weeks ago we got it. Uh, our captain of tankers was doing truck checks and he found a leak drip down the side of our one our
oldest tanker and that's a 2002 we believe. Um, we've looked at it, tried to get our options. I called down to our uh rep that we did dealt with our last tanker,
the new one um new at Midwest Fire, and to see what a new tank would cost and they won't even touch it because there's so many unknowns, you know, they they really deal with brand new. So,
Lonnie uh reached out to what we use for our local welder, uh Nathan Zman. He's going to pull the top off that tanker and look in there. We're believing it's a baffle that broke loose. So, it's an
aluminum tank or stainless steel. Uh we're thinking a weld cracked and it's slowly seeping. Uh it hasn't seeped since, but we're just thinking there's some scale or something blocking the hole. So, we're going to do a pretty
extensive look and take a bunch of pictures and then also bring it to township because like we talked earlier, that's, you know, beneficial for them. Um it's it's not in it's not the next truck. Our
rescue was the next truck. Uh >> 89. Yeah, the 89 Ford rescue is uh next uh we'll be putting a community together in 26 here. Uh so we're we're going down every avenue to try to make this work
and uh >> is it just forgive me, but is it just a big stainless steel tank? >> Yeah. >> Mounted on the chassis? >> Yep. So >> there's no pump or anything on it? >> There's a little pony pump because we can kick this one off the field. It's light enough. So, we have a little hose
rail on the side. Um, but Lonnie kind of went through the backstory on this. You know, this one was our old that this one replaced had the exact same thing happened. And we
tried for way too long to prolong it and it finally split on us one time and then we were, you know, and then the motor blew on it, the old the old one. So, we're we're trying to get this by till
we can get the rescue and everybody with townships happy paid and then this one will be very shortly behind it. Unfortunately, um we're still going to try reaching out to some other distributors and we
thought if we could just go directly and buy the tank and >> and fab it oursel because Nathan is a very good fabricator too. Um but we're just not having any luck of getting one ourselves. So um we're not
done yet. We're we're going to give it everything we can to not have to be forced to do anything. But um just wanted to bring it to council and then obviously in township in February they're going to hear the same from from me also. But yeah, it's
not ideal. But on brighter note, like Michael said, we got two going through class. >> Yeah. >> Um >> tomorrow night we're actually demoing our first uh battery operated tools for some of the money that we got donated
from GPL. We're going to start working on those tools. So, the first company's going to come in tomorrow night. Um, but uh yeah. So, >> thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um, library.
So, we had our meeting on November 17th and we learned or I learned that due to the library director position being eliminated, the library advisory board is going to a library governing board.
So, it'll be look it'll look completely different. I'm not really sure what it's going to look like yet, but I think we have to work on that. >> Yeah. So, and that was really the main takeaway from that >> which means I think in practical terms
that the library board has more input about >> Yes. budget and >> yes that type of thing >> but would still fall under the umbrella of the city council. >> Exactly. Appointed by this body.
>> I'm sure you'll hear more about that coming up. um public works. >> Uh Troy and I went through our 2026 goals which you guys will get in hopefully January. Um much scaled down, but you know, we have some some lighting
projects that we are still trying to work on. Um we have some street lights that are probably going to fall over fairly soon. So, we're uh hopefully going to have that uh to you in 2026. I I also wanted to say um you know I think
I reported this before but um after our second street project you know this year we've had a pretty significant amount of rain. Um we we in took 30% less INI to our ponds this year than the previous
year. Um it was so significant that MPCA thought we were not reporting correctly. >> Wait, why? >> Because now all the storm sewer is going to the county ditch and not to our pump station. Yeah. And you'll notice that on Second Street, you don't um you know
where where the you know more lowlying levels are, it doesn't really cool there anymore. >> Um a lot of that is actually not going to the pond anymore. It's actually going straight out um to the county ditch. And that is saving quite a bit of money, not not only pumping and electric, but um
it's helping us on the MPCA sides, too. >> It's a lot. >> It's a lot. That's that's >> But if you remember that really big map that we said, you know, this project will take care of like >> 30% 25% of our ini problem. That's that's what we were
talking about. It was a significant reduction. >> Yeah. >> And what is ini? >> Infiltration of outside water. It get seeps into your sewer pipes. >> Thank you. >> Where does that all come from? Just uh >> everywhere, you know, especially question.
Especially downtown with all the buildings, you know, you have a lot of surface area on them. And >> old school way was put your storm sewer directly into your sewer system. No big deal, right? And now we're really trying to separate those two because it is a
big deal. I mean, if we go up for permitting for new buildings or um new residential areas, that's the first thing that MPCA looks at is are you permitted? Do you have capacity in your ponds in order to do so?
>> It's the first time that Troy's worked at the city of Winthre where we have not done an emergency release and our pond system, >> which is amazing when you think about the amount of rain we got. Yes. This summer >> early in this, >> right? Okay. Um I'd like to thank public
works for clearing the snow for this first snowfall of the year. And may it be a light snowfall season and easy on our budget and my driving. Um planning commission, >> we have not bet, but we will be meeting soon.
>> Um RS fiber, same. Um I believe we'll meet in January, so I should have a report on that in the future. Utilities, I was not able to get to the STEM and norm. Um, you know, most of the meeting
focused on renewable energy. Um, and some of their, uh, new expansions. Their newest solar field just went online for MMPA. >> Um, and they were still talking about data centers, which is always a big
conversation. >> Um, ambulances if we have not covered that in depth tonight. >> Yeah. Nothing really other than what we've already discussed. Uh Garrett Schmidt uh is now a fully
licensed EMT. Um that allows us to uh do some cre some crew reorg reorganization. So I no longer will be covering two nights and two weekends. Um good >> we'll be uh I'll be down to my one night
and one weekend. So Um, police Logan, do you have anything for us? >> Most of you want me to go over my presentation from a couple nights ago. >> That it was it was excellent, I got to say. And is that available on the website? >> That's available on the website on the budget page. Okay.
>> So, for anybody who was not here at the budget workshop a week ago, yeah, it was last Monday, was it? >> Um, if you want sort of an overview of what the police department's done in the last year, I would take a look at it. It's It's very well done. >> I did have a question for you, uh,
Chief. Um, there are were two properties that were, I believe, crime scenes in Winthrop and, um, I haven't gone by them recently, but when I did not long ago, the trash was still um like piled by the
houses. Is are those still considered crime scenes or can those be put out and have the trash collected or the one >> I don't know which one you're specifically talking about. Maybe it would be a good opportunity that we could talk >> absolutely >> outside of this setting.
>> All right. Perfect. >> From there. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Moving on. Cable commission also. >> Uh we have not met. Okay. And park committee. >> We have not met. Um, I just wanted to give an update about the splash pad,
though. Um, so MDH finally approved our splash pad. Sorry, the Minnesota Department of Health finally approved our splash pad releases. Um, we have an updated meeting. Obviously, it's not going to run this year. Um, but they'll install the fixtures um this spring and
it'll be open in 2026. >> Go ahead. >> They replaced all the cement. >> All the cement was replaced. Our engineer team from ISG went and checked all the levels, rise over rays. >> Um, and it is correct.
>> Do we have any kind of warranty on any of that since they had to chop out the concrete and >> Yep, we do. We have a 2-year warranty. >> Okay, good to know. All right. Um, I Anybody have questions about committees or anything? Okay, then
we will move on to eight, which is a city administrator's evaluation. um at which point um under Minnesota State Statute 13D.05 um we are going to close the meeting because we're discussing um you know
issues. So um if someone would like to make a motion to close the meeting to close it >> motion by Ed, second by Jenny. Any discussion? Any discussion? All those in favor please say I. >> Opposed?
>> Motion carried. Thank you all very much for coming. Um, we really do appreciate your your thoughts and input. And I said it earlier, but you know where to find us. And please let us know if you have questions.