uh and additional increases such as worker compensation and property insurance. Over the last month or two, the city council has decreased that amount to by 64.5%. This accounts for the drastic reduction
of over $600,000 in the following areas. We as staff um took to heart what council wanted last meeting to move wages back to uh the enterprise funds
which means that there's going to be rate implications. We reduced wages on the obligation to by $130,000. We reduced wages and benefits in the library and eliminated the full-time library position which saved the city
$100,000. Uh we did cut Farm City Funfest funding and reduced the historical society funding. We reduced funding for the fire department for tools and protective equipment. Reduced ambulance training and small budget.
Uh we're no longer charging the departments for electrical services, which again will have implications to our enterprise funds and impact rates. We reduced income um about $60,000 from
25 to 26 by 7.5%. Uh which obviously is going to impact the levy when you have a reduced income. Uh we reduced the city council budget by $5,000. We reduced the city clerk budget by $167,000.
That included small tools, repairs, um a shredder. We reduced the municipal building expense budget by $20,000. The police budget by 30 thou $33,000, streets budget by $107,000, which
reduced uh entryways to alleys, some small tools and repairs, and um less resurfacing of the roads. We reduced parks and trees by $60,000. That includes uh replacement trees, boulevard
cutdowns, um ash ashbor mitigation. We reduced the library by $112,000 again. We reduced fire by 78,000. And now ambulance um again by 27 this
last meeting. Our current levy is at 17.9% from last year. That equals about $165,000 of an increase. The total levy amount would total a little over $1 million at
1,91 $91,000 270. It is staff's recommendation that we work tonight to find the final number. Um just as a reminder, tonight is a preliminary levy by state statute. Then we cannot go over
that levy amount. Um, and uh, that's what council really is here to determine tonight. We will go into this work session and then we will go into a real city council meeting with one item on the agenda to set the resolution for the preliminary levy. Then the city clerk
and I will certify it, send it to the county. Everyone will get their notifications in Novemberish. Um, and then we have some work to do between now and our finalization of the levy, which will be December 1st. Uh,
and a backup date is December 8th. We'll set the final levy, which means we do have some time, uh, to critique it and, um, make improvements as council sees fit. So, with that, uh, where would council
like to start the night? in conversation. >> Um, I just had one thing. I think many of you have been here before, but I've said this so many times before, but I want to make clear about when that we started at an 82% increase. That sounds
outlandishly large, but in reality, it it was really I really appreciated staff's approach to this because it was that included all the things that departments thought were good and useful and needed in their department. it included requests from from citizens
like alleys and and streets and trees. Um so I think it's important for everyone to know what kind of requests and demands there are on the city funds and then it's also important to look at where we have what we can manage this year and what we can't. But I I think
you know just it on face value 82% sounds crazy high but you know we've whittleled it down fairly effectively and um I think it is important to know what we are choosing not to pay for this year. So I just want to make that clear
that we're not just willy-nilly throwing numbers and you know figures and money out there. Um they were real things that departments thought were needed. So we'll go from there. Um, what's a good department to start
with? [Music] Do we want to just work our way through or should we start? What's >> I I had a question. Go ahead. >> Is that okay? Um, so last work session, um, somebody mentioned trying to find
somebody to pay for the flag polls. Do you know if that like if we if anybody did that or if I don't remember if I was supposed to do that. Uh, I did ask the chamber, but they haven't had their monthly meeting yet. >> Oh, okay. >> So, I'm not sure what the result will be.
>> Okay. Cuz that's >> that wasn't cut out. >> No, >> it wasn't. >> Yeah, that's that's a good question, though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I did I I did ask the chamber. I just haven't heard back from them. >> Okay. Exactly. Yeah, I noticed that was still there.
>> Lions. Maybe the Lions too. Maybe. >> I am not as lions. somebody's attention back. >> Um, >> do you um I know we didn't spend a ton of time on police? >> Oh, yeah.
>> Um, did you guys want to start at police and go from there? >> Sure. Let's start with police. So, uh, right now our full-time regular employees are at 385. Our overtime is scheduled to
be about 8,000. I will say that um you know as we continue to have a lot of uh drug interdiction overtime just becomes kind of the norm. Um especially when you have a DWI. Normally those are at night and they do
cause a lot more overtime. Then when the officer does get called in for, you know, trial, they get they get paid for that. So it causes additional overtime. um part-time employees is at $20,000. Um
parent FICO we can't really do anything about. But uh if you go down to training um you know $7,000 is what uh we budget for. You'll notice that it looks like we
haven't spent any of our training this year. That is only because we got reimbursements. Um, so we get that through the state of Minnesota and the Chiefs Association. Is that >> just through the state of Minnesota? But the state of Minnesota has um decided
that they were going to keep the Philo Castile training program going. They cut it some for this next year. I would anticipate the following year it's going to be cut even more. So, it's super
important to keep that at least $7,000 in there because those reimbursement funds are not a guarantee. And like in years past before the philando castile training fund came about, departments got about $150
per officer. Um, so that >> which doesn't even pay for a conference >> and that's only full-time officers that full-time officers and part-time officers that are primary with our department. So that would equate for us
right now of five officers. So we should expect anywhere in the neighborhood of 700 this next year per officer, but that's only because of that funding and that's all through this the state of Minnesota at this point.
Okay. >> Um training in instruction we did operating supplies we did lower that. Um the request was 5500 city council cut 2500. Uh motor fuels uh you know we'll
I think because we've have a few actual new squads we've actually been using quite a bit of less fuel than we have before. We've also been using the >> barrel >> the barrel more um >> which is at a cheaper rate
>> much cheaper rate um small tools and equipment $1,000 just for accidentals professional services is 28 28,000 that includes things like their body cameras and all the lensure
for that um the tasers um also um telephone 6,000. >> Well, that going back there that that went up considerably. I mean 6,000. Is there something? Um
>> it was our new tasers. >> New tasers. >> Yeah, that's taser t. >> And now that we've went into this system, it's a lot easier to track every single expense. >> Okay. >> Specifically for professional services. And I I have line item every single
thing. And like I said uh in the previous meeting, that $28,000 is uh there's not much way over. >> Okay. >> Uh travel expenses we did cut a little bit. Um although it does matter when
they go to trainings. Uh we were pretty comfortable with what we were given by council. In that category, you'll see electrical util utilities was cut. Again, that'll have great implications. Uh
maintenance repairs, I beg you to keep it at 10. Uh you know, our squads just are in constant need of repair. Um uniforms, $4,000. Um we do have some vests that need to be replaced.
um uniforms that need to be replaced. Their I know this sounds weird, but I and I didn't know this until what, last year, the year before, but their Kevlar vests are only good for so long and then they expire and then you have to get new ones and they are not free. Um
miscellaneous expenses at 500. Um the police K9 program right now is at 10,000. They do have some in savings and then we reduced all of the capital outlay. So, um, that's where the police stands at this point.
>> Council, any comment or question on that department? >> Why Why are there phones Why is the phone, telephone so much? Does that include internet and cell phone?
>> It includes internet and cell phone. And so each each full-time officer other than Reed >> has their own uh work. >> So I be me, Aaron, Nick. Uh Reed gets a
stipen for his but >> also goes into that category. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Does anybody in the audience have questions about the police budget? All right. If not, we can move on.
Um, should we tackle next? I need a list in front of me. >> Um, we can do >> what? Let's tackle some of the bigger. >> I know a lot of the people have questions about library. So, do you want >> Yes, let's do that.
>> Tackle the hard ones first. >> Yes, let's do the ones with the bigger shifts. Um so during our first budget meeting um council recommended that we eliminate the full-time library position. Um that obviously has implications of an
employee. Um so we adjusted down their full-time employee overtime and wage and benefits and we eliminated them from the budget. It it took out about a hundred some odd thousand dollars.
between that FICA terra. Um there's not a lot of wiggle room in the library budget. Office supplies kind of remain stagnant at $1,000 request.
Programs and services. Um we did reduce that last budget meeting or the one before to 7,000. Books and programming uh books and operating supplies. excuse me, is that $8,000 that historically has been much higher. Um,
before 2023, I think in the 21 budget, we spent almost $20,000 on books and services. Um, technology service agreements is about five grand. Um, that is TDS and Overdrive.
Um, yeah, there's just not a lot. I have not heard anything new from Sibly County's reimbursement um as as they just set their preliminary levy. That just doesn't it doesn't mean that they won't do anything to it, but right now um they have emailed us that
they'll give us the 75,000 um but that doesn't mean they will. So a total levy impact um to the citizens is 23,150. So, it went from 133 to 23,000.
It saved about 14% on the levy. >> I have >> Thank you, Lra. I was looking for you. I'm sorry. >> I have one quick question. Go ahead. Come on up, Audrey. I have one quick question about the Sibly County reimbursement. So, yeah, >> you know, we set our preliminary levy. >> It we know this isn't permanent. We can
adjust it. If we set our final levies, say December 1st and the county sets theirs later and they cut that back, >> there's not a lot we can do. >> Not a lot we can do. >> Yeah, we'd have to cut somewhere else, which means, you know, we'd have to cut
book budget. We'd have to cut operating expenses. >> Yeah, >> I would I'm hoping we can take Sibly County at their word and >> I would hope so >> know that they're, you know, we have emails and communication with them the entire time. So, okay. Um, I we can
start with anybody here have if council table have any questions or comments about the library adjustments. >> I did have a question over email. Excuse me. From a resident. I've been losing my voice like the last two days. I think I talked too much. Um,
>> that's a sign. >> It is a sign. Uh it's also a sign >> in 2020 2021 uh there was like this weird limbo. We weren't really open to the public but we were still spending a lot on services and there was money um
left over during those years uh that was put into a special like savings account. Um, so some of that money was actually spent going through um, plans for remodeling the library and there's not a
ton of those funds left. Um, I I think there was about $11,000. Um, but there's there's just not much of those funds left. And uh, there was some misnomer about that that we got like $80,000 from the county when it ended.
It wasn't. It was like 33,000. It was not as much as they thought it was. And the reason it was like that is they took everyone in the county, took them the main pot of money and split it evenly between the five libraries. So even though Winthrop had then allocated
more funds from the county, it went evenly to everyone. So um and then we used that to ask professionals what we could do to the library to make it more accommodating. The other thing that was asked is yes,
back in the day, Winthrup used to put almost $30,000 into the book budget. >> We did. >> Um, so that has significantly decreased. But I will say that, you know, we are using other TDS services now. They're they're, you know, bringing books from
other libraries. So, we don't always maybe have the book on hand, but we can get them still from the service. Uh and we use a ton of inter library loans and you know I don't speak to this but a lot of people are doing ebooks uh which is a
free service. >> No it's not free you >> well I mean free for the patron. >> Well it is but I mean from the library standpoint you pay as much or more for an ebook. Oh yeah as you do for the physical book which never fails to blow my mind but um
>> we took all the work out of it. >> Yeah I know. But yes, for the patrons of three, >> right? >> Right. >> Audra, >> thank you for coming. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you. >> I think you bet. I have a cold, too. Um, all I want to say first to start is I
want a taser. >> Um, so I just have some comments for you to think about um tonight and just really appreciate the opportunity to share some thoughts on library services. Um, I understand that there are very difficult decisions in front of you and from my years in nonprofit and
organizational management, there's never enough money, volunteers, or willpower to do what is possible. It's not what can we do, it's what can we afford. Just two years ago, I applied and was offered the job of library director at a
workable salary with full-time benefits. I've always loved reading and believed the vibrant presence of a library says this community encourages lifelong learning. This community invests in its residents through educational and entertaining programming and activities.
In my discussions with one of the international teachers at GFW High School, she regularly tells her students how lucky they are to have a functioning and vibrant library in their community. In the Philippines, according to the Daily Guardian, 350 libraries have
closed since 2014, leaving only 3% of local governments in that country units with functioning libraries. If libraries were just about the books, let's open a bookstore. But libraries are about creating a community of readers, providing safe and accessible
reading spaces, encouraging literacy, and strengthening community pride and community connections. According to the Pew Research Center, 80% of Hispanics strongly agree that libraries are important because they promote literacy and love of reading. We we see Hispanics
in the Winter Library. In research um in other research, all racial groups strongly agree that public libraries play an important part in giving everyone a chance to succeed because they provide free access to materials, technology, and resources.
We see people in the Winthrop Library looking to better their status in life. At the Winthrop Library, we provide technology service support, programming, copying support, um, and materials that foster curiosity, lifelong learning, and
every once in a while, a piece of scotch tape. Um, people with access to books and reading spaces perform better academically and socially. Since COVID, libraries all over have worked hard to encourage people to leave their homes
and pick up a book or movie. Libraries have also worked hard to adapt to digital and online services that their patrons are using more and more. Just like what you talked about, when the school building closes and Hans stops serving breakfast, this community will
change and the library in order to stay relevant and continue to be a community asset will also have to change. It is my fear that just cutting my jobs my job stops short the progress we have made in developing the library as a community
force. Yes, I said community force. I've been collaborating with other Sibli County library directors on programming and advocacy. Just weeks ago, I spoke in front of the Sibly County commissioners to advocate for their funding of
libraries. I've been working with the English and language arts teachers at GFW on getting high schoolers to utilize the library and work on some grant possibilities. The mental health programming coming in early October is coming at no cost due
to the contacts I've made with various groups and I also just applied for a grant that would provide us with spec library specific STEM programming. When looking at the budget as it currently stands, I would challenge the city council to consider this is only
the third year, I think, that the library has come out from underneath the leadership of Sibly County. Is that correct? >> Um, in the last three to four years, this library has had three directors. Is that correct? Thank you. And two activity activity directors go through
the doors. The resurrected friends group has only really just gotten up and running in the last few months. Would you agree with that, Martha? >> I would. >> Okay. >> This is a lot of new and young change. In the budget that is before you, my position and benefits are eliminated,
but 15,000 is added to the part-time employee line. If the council would allow city administration to consider a part-time director role, that role would continue to lead and build the Winthre City Library until a budget session is more favorable to the library. Based
upon my experience in securing and creating programs at minimal cost, which means I'm cheap. Let's be real. Community partners or with grants, I would suggest cutting the programming budget to two or $3,000 with that challenge. We have done great work with
getting grants in this community. Based upon my work here in ordering books, I would suggest cutting the books and operating supplies to 6,000. Libraries are purchasing books on sale and Amazon to continue the cost cutting measures. Um, I do believe in Doge. Let's get it.
Let's get it as for the best price we can. This decrease in funding would encourage people to donate their books that they have and participate in the book sale for the Friends in the spring. Some of those proceeds could go to more books in the library. In closing, I would ask the city council double down
on the success of the library and reinstate the funding for the director position or at least enable a reorganization conversation that fuels future growth. At this time, I will defer to the city administrator or take any questions.
Anybody have any questions for Audrey? So, you would be willing to work part-time? No, >> I'd be willing. There has not been a conversation about uh first of all the elimination of my position. And so to
put that in front of to put the conversation on the table, okay, if we don't have a full-time director, how can we do this and still grow, >> right? >> Y >> Well, I just wanted to basically stand behind Audrey 100% on this thing. I was
here when we started with uh Mandy and how she did the job which was fair and then we got she quit and then Audrey took over and since then the library has just gone like this. I mean new programs, new activities,
uh caters to the kids which is very important in a small town and also caters to the elderly. They've done trips. They've done a lot of things. And I strongly encourage this council to reook at what you're proposing and
figure out a way to keep this program moving forward and doing what it's doing and just getting better. So I I we stand here in total support and what she's done. How can we in the community help? Like,
can we purchase books for the library that we might see that we would like to see in our own library? Um, and also, um, I noticed when I went through it that I did not see any Laura Engles Wilder books, which I found really weird
for because it has to do with our area. And I even thought okay can I donate that when I am not you know living anymore or is that kind of like faux pie and we don't do that here or something?
>> Can I respond to that? >> Hi. I'm a huge Laura Engles Wilder fan. The books are all down there. They're in the junior section >> and the picture book. >> It was years ago. So >> Okay. And then there's there's some in the picture book section. And then just
to let you know, the last two years in spring we do Laura Fest, >> okay? >> Because I love her so much that I want to encourage people to go to Walnut Grove. Um last the first year we did it. Um I can't remember who the speaker was, but we made bonnets. The second year we
did it, we made butter. And this time I have scheduled um a fiddler who will play the songs of Little House in the Prairie. >> Yes. Looking forward to that. So that that's unlike Joe. >> I do have some budget questions. We we are looking at part- timerrs.
How many part- timerrs are we talking? And is this something that maybe she would be willing to pick up those hours to be able to alleviate that cost? Is there a way to offset some of that that way? >> I you know, I don't know that we've answered all those questions yet. I I
think our you know the the task for the council tonight is to set a budget for 26. I don't know that we've worked out all the ins and outs of how that would work. Um >> because from a budget standpoint those are talking about the direct numbers
here. You know if you're talking about how many part- timerrs you have you're looking at their wage. So now if you're asking we're going to get rid of our director, which is basically in a business standpoint, you're going to get rid of your manager. And what happens is when
you get rid of your manager, the people underneath are not going to necessarily know the structure. So you're going to have that downhill slide of the library. It is going to taper off. >> Absolutely. >> And in many businesses, I've seen it to where they shorten the other staff
before they get rid of the management staff. if the management staff is doing well. So, that is what I'm asking council to look at. If our current management staff is doing good, is there a way we could bring down the part-time help that she could pick up those hours
and still maintain her position? >> And I would like to put forward an idea about asking for volunteers to work at the library instead of all the part-time. you unfortunately you can't have liability you can't have a volunteer in the library because there there's
privacy involved there's >> liability >> and and even from a even if there weren't all those liability issues you still have a because I had a discussion about with a friend of mine who works in the library world she said a a volunteer can come and go when they want to so if
they're set to open the library on Saturday morning at 9:00 and a volunteer says oh I have something else to do, they can go do that. Whereas if we have paid staff, >> we would hope that we would screen the volunteers. >> I I agree. But there is, you know, there's liability and and that is it's
not allowed in the current system because in in the same way you don't want a volunteer walking in and going through our utility lists because it has people's private information. Um, library membership has the same kind of
impact. To directly answer your question, yes, we've looked at scheduling. We know um our current situation if we kept employees um employee A and employee B in their current role, we would go through about
$25,000 worth of payroll, which leaves some leniency. That's what Audra is talking about. um we have it like if we hire three employees, we know we'd have about $45,000 in payroll, which is what Audrey is talking about. And then obviously
this would be a you know part-time overlapping and that would go to about 62,000. So, the idea about um having a part-time director has been um thought about um but we don't know what that structure looks like going forward, but
the personnel committee is still looking at that. >> I just know from >> from my experience in business, whenever you cut management staff when they're doing well, it's always a downhill taper. It never goes in the other direction. Anytime you cut leadership
staff, you're always going to see a decline. And I'm pretty sure we even seen it in our police department many years ago how we had cut police department down in their budget. We noticed their effectiveness went down. And this is where the leadership staff
needs to be strong. And when we get these good leaders, we need to look at ways to keep them. >> I I was just simply going to reiterate what was said. Yeah, I stand behind Audrey and I stand behind the library. And I think that when our memory stretches, we know that she's very good
at writing grants. We know that she's very good at bringing people in that we've not had we've not had prior. And I I I also agree with the gentleman in front of me that in my years of business, that is exactly what's going to happen. And we've already experienced that with the library when you don't
have a strong director in place. The cuts that you had mentioned um where were they again that I mentioned? >> Yeah. >> Um they would be in the >> books >> programs and books programs and services.
>> What did that come to about? >> Well, I I suggested you could take programming down to two or three and it's probably at seven. >> Yeah. >> No >> programs is a seven. So if you took four from there and then down to books um you
took that to six. So that would just be 1,000 I think >> could be 5,000 >> to think about like 30,000 cutting books if you as Michael mentioned we used to spend we used to invest 30,000 per year with the sibly county money and the city
of Winthrop and books are not cheaper now than they were in you know 2005 2010 when I was on the library board. We If if you don't have current books and publications in the library, people
aren't going to keep coming. If I mean, there's always something to read in the library. But for people who want the they want what's >> current, they they want to see that. And if we're, you know, if if you consider that we spent $30,000 in 2010 and we're
proposing spending under 10, substantially under 10 now, that's, you know, even if you were using the exact same amount of dollars, that would be a huge cut. But comparing the the value of that money in 2010 to what it would be
now, it's it's a much bigger cut once you factor in inflation. So, and I worry about cutting the programming too much because that's what we've talked about brings people into the library, too. And if we have very little money there, it it's harder to offer programming, too. I
I would like to say I think I truly one of the most difficult jobs sitting here at this table is that when we look at budgets and we look at and we had to do this last year, we eliminated a position in the front office. And it's not as simple as saying, "Oh, well, look, we
can save this much money out of this line item if we eliminate a position because that position in in our world has a face and a name and it's somebody that we interact with regularly and it makes those decisions much much harder.
Um, so I I just wanted to make sure everybody knows that that this that the discussion is based on the budget and not about any any person in this case Audra. Um, you know, it's it's not I've often said it's
really really hard, but I think in a position like this, you have to take a step back and try and look at the position and what is good for the overall benefit of the taxpayers in the city of Winthre and try not to attach a name or a face to that as difficult as
that is. So, we went from 34,000 um last year's budget for part-time and that was increased to 60,000. Am I saying that right? Y >> to your point Julie though about the
programming and things I think the programming itself would really suffer if Audra wasn't part of it because she has come up with amazing ideas and
like she herself said done it very inexpensively. done it with grants and I I don't know. I mean, everybody's replaceable. Every single person is
replaceable. However, I think that's one of her gifts. The other thing that I find really difficult about all this and and we were sort of backed into a corner because the Sibly County Library Board dissolved, but the the position of the library
director was never a full-time benefited position within that system. Um, and so once it became that, because it legitimately when we hired someone at that level, all of our people within the
city of Winthre who work a certain number of hours are benefit eligible, which is reasonable and and good according to our policy, but that has a much bigger budget impact than it than it used to when it was the Sibly County Library System.
So, is there benefit money in the part-time 60,000 for those people? >> No. >> No. >> And and to be perfectly honest, I've been a part of similar discussions. I was on the Sibly County Library Board in the early 2000s and and on and off
through and we had that discussion over and over again. Um but what what it came back to over and over again was the the cost of benefits per employee was the the book budget for that particular
library or um you know was the cost of the Travis Doo membership and the which provides you know all of the books circulating and and assorted other services. Does the 60,000 cover the library being
open the amount of time that occurred in? >> Yeah, it would be the same amount of hours. >> So, if we put Audrey back in there as part-time, would we eliminate another part-time position then? >> Or is she part of that?
>> Wouldn't that go to personnel committee? >> Yeah, >> administration. That's not to be decided here. My only concern is we can't uh raise it after tonight. >> We cannot raise it after tonight. >> And anybody who knows me knows that
libraries are near and dear to my heart. I've I've always said that being involved with the library board was what got me involved with how government local government works. And it's it's really why I'm here. So to make cuts in the library budget is very difficult for
me on on any level. >> Um but at the same time I I personally think that this year this is this is the best we can do for >> this budget suggestion. Audrey had two categories
that she thought she could reduce we could reduce the budget in. Um, and if we had a part-time director, that part-time director would still be writing the grants and so forth and so on, assuming it was Audra and we know
that she's good at it and she can handle that. If we reduce the programming and services down to 3,000 like she said, and the books and operating supplies to 2,000 like she said. That was
>> But you can't have books to 2,000. Oh, I don't think I said that. >> Oh, you said six. I'm sorry. >> All right. So, put that at >> four bucks. We're getting four bucks. >> So, so make that six, but then >> but then take those dollars and put it into the part-time into the um that
$5,000 and put it into there. That way, we're still reducing the budget, but we're putting more into part-time. So, if we do have a part-time library director and we keep it under benefit eligible, did I
do the math right? >> We gain we gain a director >> parttime director. >> That makes sense. >> Yes. Mhm. >> Just know there's also implications though because that ups and FICA so you're not trading one for one and
you're still upping it a little. >> What about the other communities? Are they full-time directors or >> Henderson is part-time um Gibbon recently Gibbon changed their policy so now they're full-time people are benefit
eligible. So Kim is full-time over there. Um, >> Arlington is fulltime. Gaylord, I don't think is No. No. >> Bob, you got a question back there? >> I think so. I'm trying to track this and
as I look at it, it looks like we're basically trying to save the cost of benefits on the full-time person because we've taken the full-time salary out, replaced it with another $30,000 of part-time salary, right? while reducing
>> her salary was 55,000. >> Yeah. But then we at the same time we reduced the 55 we added 30 >> to the to the part-time and we've eliminated the 30 of the
benefit 39 of employee health benefits. Um, one thing that's a little bit I'm sorry, just when you net all that together, it's hard to see exactly how much we're really saving by eliminating the full-time position. It's also a little
confusing that the money from Sibly County is not the same in both problems. That's because when when the Sibly County Library System split up, they said that they would fund the their portion of the libraries as they always have.
>> Yeah. >> Um and Sibly County had traditionally funded the libraries really quite well. um that has changed a little bit at the um comm county level and their first proposal that they floated out earlier
this summer was to cut the library funding to the bare minimum that they are required to by state statute um which would have that's what we used in our 26 with the first column where it says column >> 42,000 that was their first proposal um
I think they got some push back and they've now updated saying that they're going to they would fund us at 75,000. >> Yeah. >> Um >> just saying it looks like we cut a 100,000 out when part of what we did was
add another 20ome 30,000 on that lance. >> To answer your question directly, the savings as it stands right now with the changes is $61,100. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Mhm.
So, I have a sheet of some Winthrift Library by the numbers that I will send you all tomorrow because I know you won't take any more information in tonight. Um, and then if you have any other questions, you can just send them to me via email if that's okay. All right. I just have one kind of thing to add and
that is um you guys are going to have to obviously make the decision but if you choose to go through with it and cut the position or do whatever with it, what this gentleman here said is going
to happen. the library is going to go this way instead of staying level or going up. And to to keep it moving forward and keep it doing the job we're doing, you have to have somebody like Otter to do it because if she's gone, it's not going to go that way. It may
stay stagnant. It may go down. But, you know, it's going to be one or the other. And unfortunately, you guys have to make that decision. And that's why my comment is shortening the part-time help to bring her in. I get you don't want to we're trying to
avoid the benefits payments right now. So, yeah, she would have to stay underneath as one of those part-time people, but I think eliminating her within the library is going to be very detrimental to that library. >> Are the grants that she requested
reflected in any of these numbers? um programs and services from last year. >> One of the things that I know we have run into in the past when we've worked with how to schedule hours if you have
it's hard to find part-time people who are willing to fill in around the edges. you know, if and and I'm not I'm not talking about Audrey's director, but if you have the director who says they want to work um you know, let's say noon to noon to 6 every day and you need to be
open two hours before that and an hour or two after that, it's it's hard to find people who are reliable who are going to work those short shifts here and there. >> Exactly. If if you have part-time people though who split those days up, it's
it's easier to find someone who's going to work Monday and Wednesday for a full shift. I and and I'm going back this was I mean many years ago when we had um even when Mary Jane was at the library and she worked all the time
we struggled to find people to fill in those when you have just little windows left over. So what one of the things I would worry about is cutting the part-time people too much because then you have no one to cover vacation and sick days and and all of
those things too which is maybe getting into the weeds. Another thing about part-time, at least from what I know about some of the part-time people, they're retired. This isn't their career path. They're just there hour to hour to do that job. So, they
don't have the mindset that someone like Audra does. I know this came up in the last budget session, too. And I just also wanted to think, you know, if we take Audra out of the the realm in the equation, I think
our real problem is if Sibly County decides to drop the hammer next year or even the year after, we're going to be having the same conversation because it's not, you know, $10,000. It it funds literally half of our library fund. Mhm.
>> So I I you know I think in council's you know decision to cut that position there was conversation about well what is the future of the library then? And I don't know if we're ever going to solve that tonight but I
also know that you know it's it's difficult to know what the county commissioners are going to do since they're part of this budget equation. It's literally the only real budget that we have, you know, dual input from. Um,
but I have a I have a feeling that in two years we're going to have the same budget discussion about the library when they continue to cut >> and then some. I and to be perfectly honest, I don't expect more than the 42,000 from Sibly County this year. I think it's very tight for them, too. And
there's very little support for the library at the at the county commissioner level. And I think when the final budget levy goes, I think they're going to cut that and that's going to have a much bigger impact on us. I mean, if we
even if we made this cut and and cut the full-time position, that would have a really negative impact on this budget. And so if we if we adjust it and still have to take that money out, it's going
to be even harder. And that's the hard thing about budgets. We don't know for sure. Sibly County hasn't certified their final levy yet. So, we don't know what they're going to give us, but um I think that was good discussion. >> Yes. >> Does council
>> Yeah, they should have some >> Does council have a different revenue category or >> Mark, have you got a comment back there? >> So, door knocked last fall and the two comments we heard the most the council doesn't listen and then the second is
this is not a surprise I've said this before others have said it but the second item we heard the most was you can't afford to live in this city anymore you know what my property taxes are you know what my property taxes were when I
moved here and now what they are >> you can do that >> and we've got people this whole room can afford the 82% budget increase. Every single person in this room, there's a whole lot of people out there that can't afford a 17% budget increase.
Our home and auto went up 25%. With no plane, groceries have gone up. Property taxes have gone up. Everything has gone up. Some things are mitigating
and starting to come down. Eggs aren't $7 a dozen, but their incomes went up maybe 2.3% on a social security increase. Martha and I love Audrey. We're personal friends with her.
I want her to stay involved in the library, but we cannot have a part-time librarian right now or full-time, excuse me. When should we go with this one? >> Can Michael go back to that library and I want to see what you have for the
>> part budget >> as far as you know feedback. Um and and there's a lot of positive that I've heard about the library too. I have over the past year I I'll be honest. I've had a fair number of complaints from citizens that the library is overstaffed too. that there are frequently times
where there's more staff there than people perceive we need at that point in time. So, you know, we have to be responsive to that, too. >> What was your question, Ed? >> He I just wanted to update my page.
>> Okay. >> Because I missed a spot. >> All right. We need to get to some other budget categories yet tonight. So, what's council? What is your wish? And we're still in work session, so it doesn't have to be a motion. We have to
come to some sort of consensus. So, this you guys might all think this is really weird, but um can we go to the council >> uh area? And um when I applied when I filed to run
for city council, I didn't even know that we got a stipened at all. You know, I I knew there was probably mileage if we had to go somewhere or something, but what if in good faith we cut our stipen?
I don't know how much. I don't know what would be reasonable. I don't know what everybody else thinks about that, but I don't something to throw out there. >> Um I I don't know a comment on that. We
um the Sibly County Library Board did do that for a while long time ago due to some budget things. Um and we had a representative from um a couple of organizations, the library, the regional library and others, and they said um
your service is valuable. And when organizations say no, you shouldn't receive a stipend for what you're doing, it lessens the the value of what you're doing. And it really brought home to me. my my brother-in-law was on the school board in Otana and um the same proposal
came up and they had a couple of younger parents on there and they said, you know, I I support that a lot, but if if that happens, I can't be here because I have to pay for child care or I have to miss a half a day of work for these meetings.
And you know right now probably most of us don't have to give up a lot of days of work or you know I don't think any of us for childare anymore but there are things like that and once you do say oh we're not going to collect our stipen it
it makes it much more difficult for you know the young parent down the street that says oh I'd like to do that but I don't have time to take off from my job or I can't afford somebody to watch my kids while I attend a meeting.
>> So, as what perfectly well intentioned as that is, I I think it's a really just on a budget comment. Uh >> so, not taking it this year and then in two years when council decides to get
stipens, it creates this weird wave. And although that's only 1% 1.2% 2% of the budget. It is what would be better is if you collected the stipen and then just donated the money back because budgetarily
it creates these weird up and downs that is harder to control. So like if you wanted to donate it to the library, go for it. Give it to the friends of the library. I know that a lot of our um um counselors in the past have done that
>> and our election people. >> And election people. Yeah. If you're going to do that, you have to take the check and write a check back. >> Yes, please. >> Right. >> Yes. I cannot just move. >> Okay. >> Please. And thank you. >> Do we want to decide on the library now
or do you want to maul it over for a minute and move on to another category and come back? >> I don't know what we're going to be able to, >> but we, you know, we said we're going to try and
pass our premier budget tonight. So, >> can we talk I know this doesn't impact the levy, but can we talk about rates and what that did? >> Yes, we do need to do that. >> Yes, >> because that's my other that that was my top three. Okay. Um, so just to keep everyone up to
speed, um, we took to heart kind of the conversations that we had at the last budget meeting and Heather went to work on, um, shifting our wages from the general levy back to the enterprise
fund and we told um, city council that that is going to have rate increase implications. meaning the more energy, the more water um that you consume in the city, it is going to impact your bill. So, I did send out, hopefully you
guys read it, the impacts. Hopefully, you could pick out which ones were yours. Oddly enough, most of your bills were so similar. That's why I picked a couple residents at the end, just to give you an idea. Um, a normal twoerson, threeperson
household, it looks like about a4 to $55 increase monthtomonth. Um, this individual is um I I would say maybe a four or five person household and you can see how it really im
impacted their budget. Um, and this is this is kind of what I was getting at when we were talking about, you know, sometimes a onetime levy increase to people's property taxes is actually less than,
you know, messing with rates. Um, so with the rate changes and putting our wages back onto the enterprise funds, you know, a person that uses 3,200 kilowatt hours of energy and about
6,7,000 worth of water and sewer, >> not dollars, >> I'm sorry, gallons >> is going to be about an $88 increase. Um and again that would you know be month after month
of of increases. So that's what it does. Um to the residential side, the commercial side uh you know it really it really will depend. Um they they
received about $162 increase last year, but that was 150 of that was their storm sewer. So, um, one of the things that the rate study did, it said that hay storm, especially for commercial, you think about, um, even, uh, the the
nursing home, right, their parking lots are really large. That has a ton of storm water coming off of it and into the pond that then gets pumped. They really do impact storm, far greater than a residential home. So, we raised their storm. That's kind
of why that rate went up. Um, and now we're asking them to pay another $103, which you know, some of our corporate sponsors and corporate people in town probably won't see that. Um, but the smaller businesses will definitely see an impact.
>> And that is just their electric line. That does not include their demand. >> That doesn't include their demand. So that's what it would do. um when we're talking about rates and this is where we actually make money on every
single enterprise >> which means that we're just basically saving enough money for the inevitable projects and replacements and repairs that come up. >> I mean like the water line break that happened today. Yes. >> Um very good example.
>> You know, we found out that five of the valves on the north side of town are also broken. So now we have to go and replace those as well. So the reason that you know half the town was a quarter of the town was out of water is because you know Jerpies and our public
works individuals had to chase it down to a valve that actually worked or else they can't stop the water and replace the breakage. Um so let's look at it now. the the difference in the rates if we
took the uh money out of the end price funds and what was it 130,000 something like that >> and we put that >> and we put it back under the general levy. >> Yeah. >> What would that raise our general levy
above what we're talking now? 17% is where we're at be another 13. >> If it's $130,000, it is 13%. >> For every $10,000, it is 1%. >> 30%. >> So if you shifted 100,000 of it, that's
10%. Shifted 80,000 of it, that's 8%. And one of the things for that most of the people in the audience probably aren't aware of is that we had a rate study done in 2017 that at the time said and it was done by a neutral, you know,
outside party said that our rates were low and we needed to raise them >> gradually to cover our inevitable expenses and to keep the the systems going. Um, at the time we chose not to
do that. For a long time we chose not to do that and those funds had some money saved. So it we didn't feel the impact right away. We've done that for the last seven or eight or nine years and now unfortunately we're really feeling the impact of not raising the rates and that
fund sinking. And um it's it's a little bit like saying, "Oh, I'm going to put money into a savings account to buy a new car when my car breaks down and then every time you have your refrigerator breaks, you pull money out of that same account and then your, you know, tree falls over and you have
to pay for that and you keep taking money out of it and suddenly your car breaks down and you have no money left in the savings account." I think that's that's where we're at right now and we have to figure out how to how to pay for the broken water manes when they occur.
So, I just wanted to know the the difference in the impact if we if we uh put that money if we took it out of the levy. Um we're at 17%. If we put it back in there, we're back up to 30%.
So, if we're at 30%, how much is are rates that you're talking about here? What would they go down to then? >> Um, >> all of your base, all your base rates would go >> back down >> back >> would go back to here. >> Okay.
>> So, like your electric base rate would go back to five. >> Um, your water base rate would go back to 15. >> Your sewer base rate would be back to 1539. So we're at 53 roughly 54 a month
or $70 a month. >> Mhm. So, um, >> point $180 a difference per year >> just in basics. >> And just basic 180 >> per year. >> Per year
>> increase as compared to putting it in the levy. >> Yeah. And that's hard because it goes off of >> market value. >> It goes off of market value. are con, you know, that's not it's not like a >> the problem with talking about
percentages and I know >> Mike it makes good headlines with percentages, but it's really about dollar amount. You know, >> when when we talk about the levy, it's it's really about the dollar amount that we're increasing because that dollar amount, not percentage, >> goes into the system. It's estimated
market value of your home, business, whatever, and that gets spread out. So if you're if you have a higher value on your home, you are going to pay a larger percentage of that tax. So that ratio is different for every one of them. So just
because we we passed even a 30% levy doesn't mean that it's going to impact your property taxes by third 30%. >> That's a very good point. It >> But I just wondered what would be easier for people to pay something. Would it be easier to
pay that your taxes, your property tax, or is it easier I think one of the things to think about a rate increase is that that doesn't just hit the property owners. It it's borne by all the people who use those utilities whether they're renting or you
know >> the base, >> right? That includes the the people who >> outside of city. >> Yeah. So it, you know, it everybody's going to pay more one way or the other, but it it does make it a little more bored by all the
people who actually use the utilities. Otherwise, in effect, the property owners are paying for that. >> That's right. >> The property owners are paying for the renters because they don't pay the taxes. The owner does, but they use all the utilities,
>> right? So that's really what we need to decide is >> yeah where you want to >> where you want to put it >> and you can control that as a resident. I mean you know don't crank your air um you know there's things that you can do.
Don't use as much water. Take shorter showers. >> Did an energy study. >> Yep. >> I've always said the best. My first house we moved in and the electric meter was right above my dryer and I threw my first load in and hit on the dryer and the meter went and I went, "Oh, I'm
hanging them outside." >> But either way, you're going to pay for it whether pay Yes. It's going to go >> what I'm what I'm wondering if you're on a fixed income. Is it easier to budget that increase of 187 $18 a month >> more than you know I'm talking about the
base rate going up or is it easier to pay higher? >> I don't know what the difference would be. >> You know there there is budget billing now too. I know a lot of our customers that are on budget billing not we don't have a ton of them but the ones that are on them are usually
>> incomestrapped or you know lower income individuals. >> Just smack them. And then there's Don >> who just likes a consistent bill. I mean, it's easier to budget. >> Yes, >> you know exactly what you have every single month. >> And we have one commercial. >> But what I'm saying is if you put it
onto your property tax, >> if you have a house payment, you're paying that monthly with your property tax or your house payment >> because your taxes and insurance come out of there anyway. >> So, you're paying sometimes >> your house. >> But I'm saying but you you are paying it either way, right? monthly.
>> Yeah. Which >> I think that the the point is which one is going to be easier for people to bear. And I think the problem is that you'll probably find half the people that say they would rather have their property taxes go up and the other half say they would rather spread it out and and have it
>> borne by the utility accounts and we have to decide what to do. This is we didn't shift all of the wages. >> No. Police are obviously still on there. Library is still on there. It's myself,
>> Heather, and all the utility workers are on >> completely. This is not Oh, we did put >> Yes. >> Okay, >> Mark. >> Michael, I I know you've shared this in other meetings. Where do we rank with
some of the neighboring cities >> on water, electric, storm, or >> we're pretty low comparatively to them. Um, I haven't updated that in a little while, but um, you know,
we're pretty low. I think the other thing is and it's hard to compare every single city because every single city has different situations. Like Fairfax, Minnesota, they bury their wages in their gas line because gas makes a lot of money. So if
you look at their levy, their levy looks like no one lives there because they they their levy I think is like I don't know 600,000 or something crazy. But it's because all of their expenses they put on their gas line. Um, if you go down the road, like Arlington is a good
example. Arlington is virtually the same size as us, has the same utilities. Um, their levy is about $600 to $700,000 more than ours is every single year. >> That's okay. >> Um, >> and their utility rates are higher. >> Their utility rates are significantly
higher than our >> base rates. >> Their base rates are much higher than ours. Even if we were the reason I was asking is when people come in and they're looking at a home, >> you got the price, got property taxes, but then you've got utilities.
>> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> And it's amazing to me with low utilities how that can swing a deal because that's every month. Now, I'm not saying don't put it into the base rate or whatever
the lingo is. All I'm saying is I think we got some room there to move up on our rates and still not diminish our attractiveness as a lowcost city to live in. [Music] >> Oh yeah.
>> So I I will tell you that this is from last year, maybe even the year before. Um, but as you can see, you know, Arlington even a year ago was at $65. Um, so even higher than we are right
now. Olivia, I should say that the reason that we picked Arlington, Olivia, um, and then they're MMPA members just like us. They have the same electrical utility. Um, so that's what it it is like
around us. But again, I haven't updated that this year because there wasn't money. And then, you know, you look at you look at Fairfax, they have a low levy um for taxes, but their their utilities are very expensive. And then I'm just going to show share
this because I think knowledge is power. Um this is the >> Yes. >> Um I shared this with council over email. I don't know last week sometime. >> Oh, bollocks. There we go. Um, so I went
back and I looked at all of our certified levies from 2015 to now. And the only reason that I bring this up is because, you know, we always make that comparison like, you know, our property taxes just keep going up. Well,
yes. Um, inevitably all things must go up. But if you look at it on a regular consumer price index and inflation calculator, right? Uh, last year we
finalized our levy at just $9,600 or sorry, $9,600 um above where the rate of inflation is from 2015. So when we say that we've raised taxes in Winthrop, we've actually just
maintained. Uh we really haven't raised anything just based on inflation. Um but the same can be said about our rates, right? So we haven't raised our rates in a while. And you know, two meetings ago, three meetings ago, we said, "Hey, the last couple years we
have exceeded our revenue and we keep planning for the same thing." And that gets scary for administrators because council wants lots of things, right? And that's great. Like we want to fix every road and every pothole. All those things
are great. Um but there's got to be some wiggle room. Either we we, you know, either we have to increase rates or we have to increase the levy. There there can't be a you know this or that type conversation. Like one or the other has
to happen. Um, and you know, again, I hate comparing towns because everyone's situation is different, but if you look at, you know, Gaylord's levy, I think it's about $2 million last year, um, which is double what ours is,
and they're just down the road. And they have the same infrastructure, the same problems that we have. They just have less utility, right? They don't have electric, they have Excel or cloud, I can't remember which one. Um, so their levy is going to be higher
because they probably only have water, sewer, storm. So we are lucky to have electric, but we also need to make sure that that account is rated correctly or else it is going to
have major problems. Like I said at the last meeting, you know, filter plant is 1950s circa 1950s. uh it was only made uh it was only made for a 50-y year lifespan and we've you
know kept on adding on to it and improving it and it's it's doing well but it's going to need new filters soon. Um our wastewater expert says I give it another 5 years and you're going to start having major problems. We had to replace a well um a well pump and a well
head just the other day by the water plant. um >> pumps at the ponds. >> Pumps at the ponds. I mean, just things take maintenance, but those filters are $450,000. >> I mean, it just it's expensive. >> I would also like to point out that we
have we have good well-trained city staff who can handle a lot of those things. Some cities just hire those services out. They don't bother to have staff who are certified in, you know, water, sewer, electric, any of those, whatever department you're talking
about. and it cost them substantially more for even small repairs. Um, so I I think that's something that, you know, maybe people don't appreciate, but we really do keep the budget um much more reasonable because of that.
>> Hector is a good example. Sorry, Heather. >> Hector's water rates are and sewer rates are just crazy. And it's because they hire an outside company to do all their waste water and all their drinking water. and none of their current staff
are licensed on either one of them. So like when they do a discharge to the >> I think one of them is got one of the licenses but not enough to >> probably drinking because he has to have three years and waste. >> Um but anyway just to discharge that
someone has to come out do testing send it to MPCA log it and then they charge them $300,000 a year to do that. Um, so when we have three people that are wastewater certified, um, it makes a a significant reduction to not only our
our sewer and water rates or drinking water. So it is significant. >> Well, and when certain when towns going to contracts with separate services, it's not a contract for one year. They lock them in for eight years, 10 years,
and then you're paying $78,000 for 10 years. And if you violate that contract before then, you're paying that out. >> So if you decide that, oh, we're going to hire someone here and we're going to have them up to date by here, but we still got seven years on that contract. You're paying that contract out and then
you're also paying that person. So having public works people is very important. And keeping them up on their lensures is even more important. So, I guess the real question is, do we want the levy to go up or do we want to have rate increases?
We've kind of shown you both as council council, we've kind of shown you both. You know, what does rate increases look like for the community? Um, and then what will, you know, taxes increases
look like for the community? >> I think it should be rates. I agree with her. >> Oh yeah, I do. I I think because we've been behind the eightball. >> Exactly. >> For how long? And it's >> Do we want to keep doing that, pushing it down the road and then some
>> two years from now then we got to take a bigger hike rate and then people are going to be mad because we didn't listen. We should have done it five years ago. >> I know. I wish I could time travel back to 2017 and say, "Yep, let's just raise it by, you know, a dollar here and then a couple dollars the next year." But
>> it depends on that's that's very true >> and it depends on the situation. I mean >> I just >> like I just you know 15 years ago we were probably making tons of money utilities. >> Yeah. >> So are we okay with leaving the rates
this way and and Okay. So we've got affordable one part done. What are we going to tackle next? So rates go up and payroll >> stays with the enterprise. >> Yeah. Other other than
>> library business. >> Um >> where else do we have large? >> We have no input on this other >> changes we've gone through. Yeah. >> Yeah. We've gone through most of it. >> The only thing that we are missing and I think I think I put it in the email to
you. You know, we don't know what police state aid is going to be yet. We don't get that until October. So, that will reduce the levy because that would be an income. >> So, what is it typically? >> Usually around 50. >> And what do we budget for in this budget? >> It's not in there. >> It's not in there at all. >> It's not in there at all.
>> No. Five points. If that was 50, >> it would drop another fiveish points. We should since this is still a work session. Does anybody have any comment on any of this?
>> Yeah. What's your feeling about either higher rates or higher living? >> It's kind of a double-edged sword to be honest with you because if you raise the utilities, you're going to make the town unattractive to where people aren't
going to want to come and live here. So, because they're going to have to eat that monthly bill every month. On the other side, we do know that home values are definitely overinflated to a certain point. So, I think the more you take out of somebody's budget monthly, the less
chance they are to fix up those homes. So, a lot more homes we're going to see go into disrepair if we're raising monthly bills. And that's just something I'm throwing out there just as a as kind of a pitch here as far as, you know,
what we need to look at for the future. I mean, if we're going to jack our utility rates way up to where people are spending all their money on utility, not fixing their homes, >> already. >> We've been looking for a bigger place. We need a little bit more space, but you know, with the values where they are
currently and how much repairs are being done to the homes, raising monthly utilities is going to have a negative effect on people fixing their homes. >> I think that we are still I think our utilities are still well within the average of
marketkedly higher than any of the surrounding towns. Even with an increase like this, >> our MMPA electric rate is usually 10% lower than XL on average and sometimes it's more than that. So, you know, this
is it is a real increase, but I I don't think it Yeah. >> Right. >> Okay. I think where Randy might have been heading is for every hundred bucks extra a month coming out of for utilities that there's a payment part a part of a
payment to a heliloc for a for repairs at the house or or we did some shoring up of our basement walls with American Waterworks and you know we went on the the credit plan with them and
that's all money I I think where Ry's head is >> and those are I mean those are real legitimate issues >> I'm sorry if I could just close that off. Um, and yet with uh great respect for Randy, I think we got to go up a
little bit on rates. And I like I like what I see because of the surrounding communities. People if they if they're not looking at Newman, uh, Hutch for a home, they're looking at Gaylord, Arlington, Win, Lafayette, Gibb. That's what they're looking at.
And I think we compare very favorably. >> We do. Yes. Bob, >> I think what I heard, and I'm going to use round numbers for argument sake, that whether we um move the dollars and the salaries into utilities or
enterprise versus put it in the levy. Either way, everyone's going to be paying about a hundred bucks more for the average home in town, right? Whether it's through a utility bill that's 100 bucks more a month or higher taxes that are going to equate to about $100 a month. Is that Did I hear that?
>> Well, it it certainly isn't that. I think the higher utility the base rates really comes to about 200 bucks a year. >> So whatever the number is I think what I heard is >> you're right the increase in tax pocket comes out of right >> pretty much.
>> It's a random point and I think it's a very valid point. I hadn't thought about that that angle but whether you're paying that 100 bucks out of your property taxes or 200 bucks out of your property taxes you're paying on your utility that's still going to come in cut into your ability to pay your heat or to make repairs. just a different
pocket that is coming out of it, the same amount of money. >> Yeah. >> So, on that note, and maybe I can articulate it a little bit more clearly tonight than I could last week, I'm in favor of having the rate increases in the utilities rather than a increase in
the tax levy. If that is the choice, at least consumers can feel like they can control the utilities that they use, the services that that they use. Even if they can't, at least they feel they have some control. Otherwise, you have the poor people that just feel they're just
trapped in their house and might have to sell because they can't control their property taxes. There's nothing they can do about those. Utilities, they can put their clothes on the line if they have to. Right. So, um I would to answer Kelly's question, I would favor the rise in utility rates over a rise in the
budget if that is. >> Okay. So, I think we're everybody's pretty much okay with the the rates as All right. Um, >> yeah. Do we want to do we want to address anything individually? Do we
want to just adopt the budget as >> presented? It is it's 8:30. So, >> do I know you're trying to wrap up? >> No, go ahead. >> Just trying to think out of the box. Is there any opportunity to partner with our GFW uh other towns Fairfax given on
sharing a good skilled quality library director across the three libraries >> um >> and sharing the expense. >> It's a it's a weird thing with GFW because Fairfax is actually a completely separate library system. So
>> yeah, they don't they don't work well together. >> You're talking about maybe some of the other towns. Yeah, if we've got a great resource in Audra, can we share her with other towns and help them share the expense? She can plan the same programs and have run in two different locations
for the same cause. >> Ironically, that's the discussion that has happened over and over over the years and is is probably the reason that the Pacific County Library system fell apart. Um, yes, in that in a perfect
world would be the best solution. um we haven't seemed to get there yet, but I don't I wouldn't say that the door to that should be closed. I just don't know that it's something that would happen in 2026, but I do think that's that's something that should be on people's
radar because sharing services, whether it's the police or or you know, utilities when they share um knowledge and you know, equipment is is really good. So, I I think that's a very good point. I think we should all sort of put
that in our radar and try to plan ahead, but I I don't see that happening in >> 26. >> Four years ago when Simply County, it was like my first three months on tried to >> Oh, it was fun.
>> Uh disassemble the county library system. Um, you know, that was brought up multiple times, like why doesn't all five libraries just share one director? Well, the problem with that is the other directors felt like, well, then they're
just going to fire all of us, and that was not part of the plan at all. >> No. >> Um, and I I do think that Audra has that skill set. I mean, Komo Zoo was the only reason that happened out of this general region was because of Audra and Audra's coordination.
um the GFW um you know conversations about not having libraries in the school is still spearheaded by generally us. So you know I think it's a great idea. I mean you'd still have support staff
underneath you. I'm not even asking them anyone to take a pay cut like just have one central director that can go after grants plan countywide you know activities which would make sense right you know the city of New
Alms about the entire population of our entire county so why couldn't just one director help support those five absolutely that's what should have happened um but in the
better judgment of other people, it was decided that the cities were going to take over and um yeah. So, >> yes, got to be kind of territorial. >> Very territorial. >> All right. Do does anybody have any more
comments? I think we're we've got to be getting to where we're wrapping up and getting ready to to >> you know I would also suggest you know if you >> a preliminary levy can always be changed down. I think you guys should finalize tonight at 18%. >> We'll send it to the county you can
always go down from there. Um and this also gives you wiggle room if you change your mind on the library director. We get um police state aid and we know our even our property tax information from the League of Minnesota's trust
insurance has not come back yet. We did up our deductible so we should be saving a little bit of money every single year. >> Health insurance has also >> and health insurance has also not updated yet until >> end of October. >> End of like November. We'll probably get
that in November. >> But we changed providers and it went down 12%. So, I'm hoping that it stays the same so that we don't have to plan for an increase. So, uh those there are still some factors that will determine the final le.
>> So, if we would set this say at the 18% 17.9. We can we can still move money around from department to department if we want to. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Um >> it's just the dollar amount can't change, right? You can't go. Exactly.
All right. Is everybody clear on how that all works? Does anybody want have any more comment during the work session? >> All right, then. Um, >> can you just now summarize kind of the what you read on here?
>> We decided to go with the rate increases. So, the the Yeah, a lot of the salaries are going to be carried by the utilities as probably they should be. Um, we >> Well, cut our increase down to 18%.
>> So, um that was through the, you know, cuts to fire department tools and safety equipment, ambulance training, farm city fundfest, historical society, the library, um other things too that I forgot to list.
>> Fire department, ambulance, cut. Basically, our general obligation to the operating would be um 1.3 million and again that's only a 20% increase considering our work comp went up almost 60,000.
Um our capital improvements would be a total of 250 which was passed by resolution in 2023 that we would repay the general obligation capital expense account. So our total expenses would be 1 let's just say 1.6 6 million 1.579
million. Our revenues is 665. Uh so our proposed uh levy before bonds and special services is 914. You add levies in there for our bonds and debt services, it's 178. And then
that total uh amount o of the overall tax levy is 1,92,17951. It's the 51 cents that really does it. >> I know. >> We're gonna round that out. >> I love that we're still talking pennies. >> It's just because it's done by percentage, you know. >> Yeah, >> generally it would look like that, but
the 51 cents is what does it >> All right. Let me pull up my Well, I probably need the agenda. >> I would just approve call the meeting to order and then >> All right. Do we have to do anything? We have the agenda or anything? I know.
There we go. I knew I had it here somewhere. Okay. So, um I'm going to call the meeting to order. >> Um would somebody like to approve our agenda? All we have on it is the new business to approve our preliminary. We
have a second >> motion and a second. Any discussion? Any discussion? All in favor, please say I. >> Oppos same side. >> Motion carried. New business resolution 2025-26 26 preliminary tax levy.
>> I know I can't. Okay, never mind. >> All right, so we've got on the screen in front of us. Um Mike will just read off all the numbers if anybody would like to make a motion regarding the proposed preliminary tax levy.
>> So moved. >> We have a motion by Don. Is there a second? I'll second. >> Second by Martha. Any discussion? Any discussion? Any discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Same sign? Motion carried.
Anything further? Someone wants to move to adjourn. >> Can I interject really quick? Um, just an FYI, on October 22nd, I forgot to mention this last meeting. This is important. >> The Minnesota House Capital Investment Bond Committee is coming to Winthre. So, we are on their bond committee tour. Um,
we asked for $4 million for the streams project, the wastewater project. Um, it's a big deal. >> So, if you guys can make it, it'll be at 8:40 a.m. here. All four city councils are being invited. Hartland Corn Products, DFA,
um, Minnesota Deed, our representative will be here. Um, it's a big deal. I'm going to send a calendar invite for everyone so that we know. There may be some details on Thursday that I get that I'll send you guys. Um otherwise uh our new uh wastewater expert experts from
will be there. We'll do a 15minute presentation. A little song and dance and then they'll be on their way. It doesn't take very long, but just to show that you know you you support the project and want it to go forward will be really important. October 4th is the firemen's open house. Please attend. And
then this Saturday is Winthre's fall cleanup. Uh we'll have two dumpsters behind city or a fire hall. Um everything but mattresses, chemicals, and electronics. We can pretty much take household items. >> Okay. Um someone like to move to a
journ. >> So I think I did it once. >> You did it right. Oh, sorry. >> All right. All those in favor say I. >> I. We are journed. >> I want to have discussion.