##VIDEO ID:wXt__L4UEBs## [Music] I pledge ALG to the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God with liy and justice for all if we observe a moment of silence for those who are serving us here and abroad to protect our country notice requirements of the open public meeting will have been satisfied concerning this meeting the home Min the publish the a notice it's posted on the municipal bulletin board it should be so noted in the minutes of this meeting councilman Bower here councilman Deus here councilman farara here councilwoman McCullen here councilwoman me councilman Patel here councilman small here vice president spillard here and president Anderson here and I get a motion that the minutes from July 23rd be approved motion second questions or comments from councel all favor I oppose eyes have it beginning with second reading ordinance this evening we will take letter a first which is an ordinance amending chapter 7 which is traffic with regard ards to restricted parking on Richdale Avenue in the Woodbridge section I make uh get a motion that this ordinance be taken up on second and third reading in the public he and be motion second any questions or comments from councel all in favor I I oppose eyes have public hearing is now open on handicap parking here are no comments from the public can I get a motion at the public hearing be closed your or be adopted and submitted to the mayor for approval as required by law motion second any questions or comments from Council all in favor I I opposed eyes Havoc letter B an ordinance author ring the subdivision of lot one within Block 3.02 in the hopel section of Woodbridge Township can I get a motion that this ordinance be taken up on second and third reading and the public hearing be open motion second any questions or comments from councel all in favor I I oppos eyes have it public hearing is now open on letter b subdivisional letter B hear no comment from the public can I get a motion of the public hearing be closed the ordinance be adopted and submitt to the mayor for approval as required by law motion second questions of colge from councel all in favor I I oppose eyes have letter see an ordinance adopting the 211 Eastman Avenue Redevelopment plan and I get a motion that this ordinance be taken up on second and third reading the public hearing be open motion second any questions or comments from Council all in favor I oppos eyes have at the public hearing is now open on letter c letter C only here no comment from the public public and again a motion that the public hearing be closed the ordance be adopted and submitted to the mayor for approval as required by law motion second any questions or comments from councel all in favor I I oppos eyes have it letter D is an ordinance to vacate extinguish the public right way of a portion of Mary fee Lane in the hopon section of wood Township I again a motion that this ordinance be passed on uh second reading and second and third reading and the public hearing be open motion second any questions or comments from Council all favor I I oppose eyes have it the public hearing is now open on letter d letter d only hear no comment from the public and again a motion to the public he and be closed the ORD be adopted and submitted to the mayor for approval as required by law motion second questionss from Council all in favor I I opposed I have it letter e is an ordinance the township of council authorizing the acquisition of property known as block 104 lot 298 and 300 located on Blandford Avenue and Abel section and again a motion that this ORD will be taken up on second and third reading and the public hear and be open motion second questions or comments from Council all in favor I I opposed eyes have the public hearing is now open on letter e letter e only no comment from the public can I get a motion if the public hearing be closed the order to be adopted and submitted to the mayor for approval as required by law motion second any questions from Council all in favor I I oppos eyes have we will take letters FG H and I by consent these are long-term tax exemptions uh for terrorist associates also for Van Dyke Avenue urban renewal for New Street developers and for iv5 br River Logistics Center can I get a motion that these ordinance be taken up on second and third reading and the public he and be open motion second any questions or comments from councel uh yes Mr Mitch I'd like to abstain from the letter H please so no voted any other comments all in favor I I opposed eyes have it the public hearing is now open on fgh hni I all Scott gor is that me yeah I think can I move this over little bit sure Scott G sorry sorry sorry Woodbridge proper so I want to speak to G first so I'm not going to speak on f or i so G and then H uh before that just very quickly regarding pass Pilots Etc so I want to give thanks as it relates to verela it may be a little thing but that left turn coming out of lows and the light and being able to get on the main street from the other way it's fantastic I know that's a little thing and that's a direct result of one of the developments and that's I just want to thank that development that has been it's awesome changed my life too it's the i i i what does I say about my life but it is lifechanging that is that and congrats I haven't been here since everybody was sworn in toing in the Pres and uh the last time the pilotes came up unfortunately I had Co and out of your safety I couldn't come unfortunately and to John Mitch for continued excellence and and quick turnarounds and thoroughness and and the documents I've requested so what I want to do quickly is talk about G and G specifically so a couple of things I want to spend a minute explaining what I sent now I apologize I've tried to send the data and the analysis ahead of time got a pretty demanding job I travel a lot kids this and that what you'll see in the analysis so the last time I was here speaking on Woodmont and by the way there is a glaring error in the wood analysis I'll resend that with the fix but it still checks out last time was here M mayor McCormack and forgive me the the finance veto is that his name the gentleman okay had noted that the analysis I had sent to that point was just a cash flow analysis so it looked at the revenues the expenses the net cash flows for the 30-year pilot in my argument there was to a 15-year pilot was still profitable for the developer and helps residents from with regard to funding schools in the future and I'll come back to that in a second he was correct that that a cashal analysis is not how developers going to look at whether or not this Pro this project is profitable they use what's called a net present calculation and they look what at their internal rate of return so what you do is is you take an in you take some rate and this is where the subjectivity of it you take those 30 years of cash flows and you discount them based on the rate to the present day the total minus the costs to build the project and if it is a positive number that means it's worth doing the project and if it's not positive it doesn't make sense and the belief as is expressed in the application and in the arguments made here is that the 30-year pilot is necessary for the project to be economically viable and again Mr Mayor mccor is right my analysis that I previously sent on other ones was incomplete so I've sent you everything now again keep in mind I have job I have I have a lot of things going on you'll probably find mistakes no doubt that's the point of me being here is to discuss this in detail my contention now what's interesting is is that both with g& h i I also had to come up what the ratable taxes would be in place of growing at 2% and I'll explain those methodologies however you whatever you want me to explain the bottom line point this is is that using a number of discount rates because when you do a Net Present Value calculation the theory is a banker can make any calculation work you just change the discount rate and it looks like it's viable you do the project the bank improves the loan but you have to be precise in the discount rate that you used so I've indicated all the discount rates that I've used to come up with a Net Present Value calculation on the cash flows under a 30-year pilot and a 15-year pilot and I think even on this one I used it with no pilot whatsoever and the result was a positive number which means a pilot is not necessary for this development to be economically viable what I don't have though and I understand the logistics of that despite the oah requests I can't get access to the city's assumptions because the one of the Fe pieces of feedback that mayor mccor gave me on the Woodmont was that hey Woodmont was very uh aggressive in their assumptions on how much their revenue is going to grow I said let me see what you guys came out you can't as proprietary that is exempt from Oprah regulations which is which is true I can't argue that I'd be willing now I work in mergers and Acquisitions I sign ndas all day I'd be willing to sign an NDA to be able to model out exactly how the city does it put in my assumptions of a 15-year pilot a zero pilot to see is this actually necessary to be economically viable so I know I can't I won't know if I can get answer on that right now but I'd be willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement to be able to access the city's assumptions to correctly model in so that you all who have to vote on this can have all the information necessary to make that decision however one other piece of this sticks out on the tab three of the Excel sheet I sent that shows what does the city get versus if it's a 15-year pilot a 10-y old pilot what does the city get in terms of cash flows versus what the schools get if it converts to a rateable at a certain point and the only difference between issuing these developments a 30-year pilot a 15-year pilot or no pilot is how much the city gets that is the only difference the projects are absolutely wildly profitable given a 15-year pilot and a no pilot however I was and offline the mayor and I I keep conversations private we ran into each other somewhere and we discussed some of this and we came to some agreements and that's where also during this proceedings I'm trying to keep the drama and the theatrics low and just focus on the data I'm not trying to battle with this body here I voted for all of you and I'm happy you're there I am for these developments the problem comes in and this is the point that gets lost and it was m it incorrectly last time when the pilots are issued it's not that the school doesn't get their funding the school sets a budget they're going to get it from the taxpayers the rable taxpayers but the pool of people who pay it as every year the school budget goes up stays fixed because you're not growing the ratable base the the ones that don't have Pilots so what happens is is it is advertised that hey because of the pilots your Municipal tax taxes are kept constant which is true and you don't set School budgets which is true but you have a direct effect on how those School budgets are funded by whom that is where my issue is and I've shown that with a 15-year pilot the city gets a ton of cash flow and at 15 years it converts to a ratable and in net on a net basis taxpayers get a huge break when it starts funding when that money gets put into the pool of the school funding that's my argument it's not e it's not required to be economically viable 30 years exposes us to too much risk from a taxpayer standpoint because I'm this isn't this isn't your fault the schools are getting an ungodly amount of state aid fantastic and they still raised the budget by 2% one day and I know we've argued about this in the past one day and I and I see it we already seeing it across the state many places are getting massive pulling of their school funding and all of a sudden the state legislature removes a 2% cap on property taxes and those places are being raised 9 and 10% that over the course of 30 years you're trying to tell me that that's never going to happen here that's that's that is a huge risk to weigh on one decision point one day school funding will get reduced somewhere in the future and the taxpayer the ratable taxpayer is going to be stuck because it was said well we you can't just raise that difference the property taxes are Capp to 2% unfortunately m c that has changed that is not the case anymore that is my future in 15 20 30 years and I get it it's hard to make this argument here about something that's 15 20 30 years down the road I've seen it before that is the E and flow of how these State politics work and we insul we the argument is well we're just the city here we're only controlling what we control I'm asking to be more responsible in how we issue these Pilots I get the other argument we don't issue 30-year Pilots they won't build here that's not true with this kind of momentum they said the same thing in Jersey City and they straight up stopped issuing pilots from public outcry and the development has never stopped we have that momentum if anyone chooses I let me not be dramatic I'm not dissing other cities if someone chooses Carterette or someone else to build the building x with the restaurant have fun they need to be here they know that that's why they're all coming here they're really coming here because the word is out that we only issue 30-year tax Pilots I'm not understanding the fixation on 30-year only and in the face of data and if my data is wrong I am totally open with understanding where it's wrong why we are opposed to debating the term of the pilots the only piece I'm debating Pro development Pro pilot get the pilot bring the people in 30 years is irresponsible I also understand about the bonds and about the rating but unless we're going to unless you can sit there and tell me that all 30 million I know it's not I'm I'm trying to draw a point is tied to 30 million worth of bonds I'm going to ask just straight up things we're buying I don't buy it the data says there are other more responsible ways to do this you had a question I thought you raing so on on the ordinance for H I showed that even with an aggressive discount rate the rate of return on this project with a 15-year pilot is still a 12.8% return the internal rate of return with a 30-year Pilots 12.92% with well I'm sorry with a 3.5% discount rate it's 12.81% return and with no pilot it's still 10% return I use 3.5% because on the on the other uh sorry on the new Street development that was the cost of their Capital 3.5 3% so I use 3.5% as a discount rate it is still wildly profitable even with a 15-year pilot I want to hear from this group or Mr Mayor McCormick on why a 30-year is the only way to Spur development for G and H what I'm ultimately asking is to pull this from the vote talk internally about my data bring it back and and secondly with h uh it was listed in the letter of recommendation on the on the Costello lot that it's it was supposed to be mixed juuse but the application only says residential does that need to be re done is that your question so well the first question is is for specifically 555 New Brunswick help me understand why a 30-year pilot is the only way forward okay um one I really appreciate the uh the knowledge that you have in the information that you're you're bringing forth um however um as you pointed out in your statement there's a lot of information that you're not privy to and as a result there are some flaws in your calculations um and uh and and that's true because there are some business expenditures that um are not in the information that you've been privy to based on uh information that cannot be disclosed to you all right um so you see where the asymmetric battle is where how is the public supposed to be have a voice in something they don't have access to I didn't mean to cut you off I'm sorry okay um you know know from a a school perspective you know and I've spoken to you about this and where we've benefited uh our Parks Parks and Recreation what we've uh what we've been able to do schoolwise we're right now embarking on another project of of building another school in our hopel district which is a an area where we closed schools back in the 8S and uh now we're able to to build schools there we have schools uh raw Street School my children benefited from it uh councilwoman De Jesus her her children went to that school um so as far as the benefit of the the program and we've gone back and forth about the the the the ultimate difference it's a matter of opinion of the benefit of a 15 or the return on an investment as opposed to a 15-year pilot to a 30-year pilot and uh you you use a word like irresponsible I don't believe that to be true because from this perspective from this side without information let let me make that statement so it's not insulting I meant from The Outsiders view no and I I appreciate that um we believe it to be a um an incentive that um does promote of development positive development here in Woodbridge Township um uh you can see some of the development uh you know you mentioned the left turn out of lows the road itself um you know which was more County funding but um that was all sparked by the project that um vermil brought to and needed a reason to be there and it's changed it it's changed the downtown traffic already um so um other than that what I will do is I'll just ask uh mayor McCormack if he'd like to to make a comment on it because mayor mccormic has obviously done an extent extensive research on this uh especially some of the questions that you might have brought but um when we're when we're presented with this um we had have administrative team that does a lot of research and we do rely on some of their expertise there but uh you know especially with mayor McCormack with his extensive experience in the area of pilots and and and the development of that such so mayor if you would thank you council president first of all the applicant only applied for a 30-year pilot they did not apply for a 15 they did not apply for a 20 so we're not responsible to look at things they didn't apply for we evaluated the 30 and we made our report to you recommending that you accept up to 30 when we get Pro fora numbers from a developer we immediately look through all of them and we Implement our own estimates because we have a pretty good knowledge now of what rents are what they will be What expenses should be what interest rates should be we basically recast the numbers that they present to us keep in mind that they if they do things right have one set of financials that they give to a bank they're supposed to use that same fin set of financials that they used for us they can't and it's been a national issue lately they can't use one set for uh their insurance and their taxes and another set for their bank loans they got to basically keep things consistent so we go through a very exhaustive analysis of their numbers the first and biggest difference between our numbers and Mr garage is is he again fails to account for the crossover impact that built into every pilot is a safeguard that if at any time the regular taxes are greater than the pilot we go back and we get the regular taxes so it's a safeguard this is about a $300,000 swing on these numbers here they're not in his numbers that we know we're going to get and it's not simply comparing them it's complicated you take a percentage based on a pre-agreed formula that we negotiate when we do the pilot but safe to say uh his numbers do not account for the crossover impact they never have the administrative fee is laid out right in the application of 2% that is not in his numbers what we call capex over 30 years there's certainly going to be breakdowns in the capital infrastructure elevator's going to break escalator going to break equipment's going to break buildings are going to start to wear and tear and need improvements so we account for a 1.5% annual uh allocation into a capital reserve fund for those type of expenses that's not in the performa analysis provided by the developer it's not in Mr gor's analysis but all these numbers add up and say when somebody said it's making a lot of money it's really not because all these account all these expenses were missed interest on debt was not accounted for in his analysis there's 2/3 debt 1/3 uh equity and the debt has to be paid an interest on the debt has to be paid we calculated that and put that into the analysis also investors aren't going to wait many years years before they start getting paid back the investors who put their Equity up certainly know it's a long-term investment they're not looking for money instantly but certainly at some point they're going to start to say we want to start seeing a return on our investment the amount of Municipal Taxes in his analysis is incorrect 990,000 should be 177,000 um it didn't it doesn't his analysis doesn't account for the fact that the project will lose money in the first several years and that has to be made up so the investment has to be repeated more money Equity money has to be put into the project to cover the losses in the first few years it's got to be funded somehow probably not by debt most likely by Equity it's a capital call you every once a year you contact your investors and say okay we are still not making money we need to put more up to coverage that's not accounted for um there we also have spoken about the fact that that loans are generally matched to results so no one is going to give a 30-year loan if they know that after 15 years one of the very largest expenses in the proforma which is property taxes are going to go from a pilot to not a pilot there's debt coverage ratios there's all kinds of things in these agreements that the lender the sorry the borrower getting money from A lender has to meet these covenants and it's important to realize that you match your expenses with your with your loan no one's going to give you 30 years if if your numbers are that different than you're 16 um any analysis of school taxes in this debate is flawed school taxes have absolutely nothing to do with this analysis school districts get their money no matter what I've said this constantly for years it doesn't matter if a skyscraper is built on Main Street and the taxes are $5 million and the school is 60% of that and I asked somebody how much do you think the school's going to get to spend in addition because of this Skyscraper the average person would say 60% of5 million they get $3 million what could they do with $3 million they get zero they get zero this is not a school district issue yes that number would be spread across the base and the tax rate would go down but as long as the pilot money more than covers that and we get 95% of it the the county gets five we get 95% of it so that more than makes up for the fact that it's not regular taxation plus we get it outside of the cap on tax increases your taxes can only go up 2% a year your property tax levy 2% a year with some Exceptions there is no limit to how much Pilots can go up no limit whatsoever so if a project comes in with a residential project with 300 school kids you're out of luck you've got to fund them in the existing budget it's not the same with Pilots pilot money comes in outside of the re Revenue cap and based on what we do which is use that money primarily for debt service for schools it's outside of the cap on spending which is again 2% plus or minus some exceptions we can only increase our Appropriations 2% a year but if we borrow money we can increase our debt service whatever we want and that's what we do with a lot of the pilot money which people have to understand in 10 years we will have invested $200 million in our schools2 200 million starting in 200 14 when we started doing the turf fields which we did all through our budget they didn't borrow any money we just funded it 2017 was a $57 million referendum minus whatever the state aid was the balance was issued by the school district in debt and in 2020 was an $87 million referendum less whatever the state aid was the balance was borrowed and this year right now we're looking at a $70 million referendum 28 million for projects and 42 million for the new school 10 minus state aid that's going to be a Debt Service that we're going to pay none of that would happen without the pilots none of it a brand new rust Street School a practically brand new Woodbridge Middle School a St Cecilia School turned into a practically brand new school 29 Kennedy Park becoming full day kindergarten something we never had which is an amazing amenity increase school security increase School Technology a major addition on school 28 in seaw Warren a major addition on school 25 in Fords a brand new school five in avanel and a no brand new school 4 and a completely newly renovated School five this year's projects doors painting things that have been ignored in the school district for many many years now every school's going to get something and I think one of the best things that has ever happened for the school district and a lot of people you will agree a brand new school 10 in hopel you can't measure that it's a $42 million investment that probably would not happen without the pilots and now kids who travel 35 minutes each way by bus are going to walk to school or be transported from South forwards or from casby right to that school T it's a Monumental impact on people's quality of life it's a Monumental impact on kids education none of these things can be measured in numbers but we know what they mean we no one else is building new schools no one else is building major additions to schools no one else got a school for full day kindergarten our security is phenomenal all because of Pilots you can run all the numbers you want you can't measure that and that's one of the reasons why we do the pilots other advantages 30 years if we could do 50-year pilots I would do 50-year pilots that's how good they are these people would not develop without the pilot with the numbers we run for example uh the costellos project on New Street we show it barely breaking even after 30 years barely now they make a management fee and they can do things with expenses they have a they have a um economy is a scale because they already own an apartment building next to it so there's a lot of advantages why they would do it you'd say why would they do a project that barely break and even there's other ways they can make money but the biggest thing is they're going to sell it someday and they're going to sell it at a very significant profit over what they invested in it and that's why don't people buy NFL franchises and baseball franchises not to make money they buy them because in 20 years they're going to sell it for a billion dollars more than they bought for and that goes into the analysis and it doesn't show up in any papers it doesn't show up on any performers but it's very significant to keep these things in mind as to why these make sense for the township the pilots for uh costellos which is the one we're talking about has an ancillary benefit of two very awful residences behind sanos Pizza on the corner of New Street and North William opposite the um costellos site they costellos has a quite tall brick building on the corner that's coming down attractive apartments are going up and those two awful houses and I if if Mr hubner could uh reveal things about those houses and how many times the police have been called to them and what goes on there now they're gone that's a very significant additional benefit for this project we're going to make $3.4 million over 30 years on this project that right now we're getting $36,000 in taxes as a municipality and like I said that comes in within the budget we can't spend that separately we can spend the whole 3.4 million any way we want with no restrictions because it comes in and it goes out outside as long as you use it for Debt Service and it's not just schools as you all know we have a very aggressive Road program very aggressive we pay5 to $6 million in roads every year 44 roads I think this year that doesn't happen in most towns we have a very aggressive sewer program for drainage we have a dozen projects where there's flooding and tonight we'll see if they work uh if they've worked we have outstanding parks that things we're able to do with Pilots can't be measured and I'll just close by saying one of the statements here and I'll try to find the exact statement the project is more profitable without a pilot than with one repeat that the project is more profitable without a pilot than with one how in the world can anybody make that statement you're telling me that you're taking one of your largest expenses and you're going to lower it and the Project's going to be more profitable simply doesn't make sense Pilots are always better for anybody's bottom line and that's why the developers apply for them and they want that Ben benefit over 30 years instead of 15 which is why they apply for 30 so when you put the whole package together Pilots are clearly beneficial to developers I would submit that in most cases maybe not most but certainly many of the pilots we've issued over these years have ancillary benefits of cleanups all the warehouses weren't contaminated sites they have the ancillary benefits of jobs union jobs during construction permanent jobs that's our residence you can't measure the impact on jobs all these things that I'm saying it it's more than a performa way more than just a bunch of numbers the numbers can say whatever they want the reality is when you take the benefits all together I would do a pilot every single time and I would do a 50-year pilot instead of a 30 if we could so please look past the numbers the numbers work our numbers work but it's more than that there's a human impact there's a school impact there's a kid impact there's a Family Impact there's a senior impact to what we're able to do with these Pilots so I again suggest that you approve these I only had a chance to look at HG came in very late but I saw that it was in the same format I'm sure if it didn't count uh Capital expenses and it didn't count the 2% and it didn't count the crossover effect in h it probably didn't account it in FG and I so I don't need to look at those I'm sure the same statements I've made here are applicable to all four we've had success with these Pilots let's keep doing them let's keep doing them in 30 years they've worked and were're the best town around and one of the biggest reasons is our finances our strong balances our strong surpluses our ability to do the right thing and invest thank you for the time but I again I I encourage you to continue the progress we've made we've done nothing but 30-year Pilots I want to keep doing 30 years and the next time we do more they're all going to be recommended at 30 and the next time after that nothing anybody has ever said to us has done anything to convince us that they shouldn't be 30 years thank you council president mayor thank you very much Mr President um I just want to add a comment and I think I speak on behalf of uh councilman Spiller and councilman Bower in regards to the fire departments how much they have benefited also from the pilot programs and the first aid squads thank you appreciate those comments councilman small all uh I'll add also um you know we we have a concert maybe every night in Middle SE in in Woodbridge Township um uh there's just been a lot of development a positive development uh the mayor touched on a lot of uh details that we're um that we hear about often and and that's where when we're making a decision uh as the mayor said there wasn't a an application for 15 years it was an application for 30 years um but when we realize all of the different parts of the community that are going to be touched by the pilot um and as the mayor also pointed out there are things that are not on the spreadsheet as as far as the impact that it has on our job market on our uh opportunities for many of our our residents that's that's why we make that decision so a couple questions back to you just regarding process so and I appreciate Mr mcor I appreciate the detail on that I do I and even if it's not 15 it's 20 so a couple of things on the on the Castello building you're right I don't know what the rateable tax is going to be a making assumption now on the spread sheet it's 90,000 I did run it with 150 and it was still profit that makes my statement incorrect for sure that it is less profitable than if it had the 30-year pilot than if it had the 15-year pilot but I had only assumed 150,000 for rable taxes it's not on the spreadsheet I did that right before coming here so a couple of things though regarding process so so that I understand it so they apply for 30 year are you running an analysis on a 15 versus a 30 and reject and can you not reject it and say well guess what the numbers do work out on a 15year pilot in other words just because they're asking for it we're not able to go back and negotiate with them and run the analysis under different scenarios like I did again with limited information to say what is what threads that line between the appropriate money to go around the the the tax hike of 2% at a municipal level versus getting the taxpayer Savings in the long run because the majority of these projects from what it sounds like are capital expenditures not debt servicing so therefore I understand you want to tie a 30-year pilot to a 30-year bond that shows security but again and that is dependent upon any Administration post Mr Mayor McCormack 20 years from now I'm again making assumptions that 40 your Venture 40 okay fair enough fair enough at 28 years another mayor comes in and wants to spend it elsewhere the whole C now it wouldn't make good business sense but regarding process when they apply can you not run the analysis and say We'll approve a 15 year again I know you don't want to so that's a silly question but just because they're asking for it that's the only analysis we do M do you see what I'm trying to get at on it ccil president I can appreciate that uh can I ask it a different we can may I just ask the answer is yes we don't look at a 15 if they don't apply for a 15 yeah now this might be a question for Mr Mitch so I and if it's for whomever it is apologies would I not be able to sign a non-disclosure agreement to run the numbers that are being used to look at it under a 15year to do the work for the ad you know to say hey I I see your numbers here it is because my my contention is and I I want to word this carefully my go I'm not here to I'm not trying to insult anybody or say we're doing something not I believe in the intention behind doing these make that so clear if it's so good and Ironclad why not open it to the challenge of saying what does it look like even if someone else is doing the work using your inputs that's all I'm asking respectfully is why can't I challenge that assumption that is that is accepted from okay no no no I get that under the Oprah I don't know if Mr cin would have to answer this or Mr Nolan but like if if I sign a non-disclosure agreement can I not have access or be sued if I shared that data I get it because our assumptions would make us less competitive to be fair I understand that I don't want sville despite despite you know you working with the mayor saal and getting Pilots I don't want anybody to be more competitive than us in getting these developments again I'm on your side is there no way to sign a non-disclosure agreement to be able to access those assumptions and run my analysis on a 15 a 20 a 25 year Well if I could okay sorry where would that stop because what about the engineer who wants to look at how we evaluate engineering projects or engineering proposals what about the architect that wants to see how we evaluate that those projects what about the attorneys that want to see what strategies we use no our analysis is considered Del liberative and consultative and I would not be in favor of sharing with anybody that's just my Council I think the mayor makes an excellent point on that because um there are times when uh we're we're challenged on a lot of policies that are set um but if uh if we had uh 15 or 20 of people like yourself that want to come in and you reject those I'm a specific person with a specific objective with a specific ordinance you see what I'm saying whether it's an engineer you I I've been out in the street before where people have come in and said your engineers got it wrong the the the water's not supposed to run across the street uh I I'll I'll talk to our Engineers about it but at that same point we can we can um have arguments all day with people that have experience in a certain area um but they don't work for the the the township and they're not elected officials so we're we are making the decisions on behalf of you and I appreciate I'm sure the council appreciates your support of us um but at the same time uh to entertain um every um disagreement and uh a proposal of well have you thought of it this way and those things do get taken into consideration behind the scenes but what you're asking is if someone applies for a 15-year mortgage um a 15-year um rable if if uh P pilot program why don't we cons why don't we look at the 15-year to see if it's more profit they plan for 30 you said 15 sorry 30 30 and then and why don't we look at the 15 and see if that's and and Banks don't do it that way they don't come in and say well maybe if you apply this way uh we'll we'll give you the loan um they either accept it or reject it based on the numbers based on their credits I mean no offense that I don't think that's the fairest comparison not to draw not to get like two specific I understand the point I get the point you're saying like if the bank's someone's applying for 30 year that's more profitable Bank why would they ask for 15 year it doesn't help them as much I I understand that point sorry but the net effect in the total equation it's almost like we're using Pilots to find things to spend on rather than look at the long-term picture and the net effect on the taxpayer in the long run because again and and apologies but you're misstating my position Mr Mayor the I said it I said exactly what you said the school set a budget and they divide it by the number of rable homes and that's your that's your bill they're going to get the money that's I I know I think the first time I was here I incorrectly stated with Pilots that they don't get their money it's they don't get a share of the pilot even though yes through the shared services program which is a differentiator for us and is a very good thing and I applaud Mr mccor May m why don't why I keep saying that mayor McCormack on that Jersey City all those places got it wrong Pilots went 100 100% of the 95% went to the city and their schools are a disaster with a billion dollar budget when they pulled school funding everyone was left holding the bag because there were so many piloted buildings but again they're they're not as they were not as structured as sound as we are from a shared services agreement 100% agree we we are very good because of that in the in the total picture though my argument is is is that you have your Pilots that are lined up with bonds over here do that you you get good credit rating means lower expenses to service that debt I get it you have Pilots lined up for bonds you have Pilots lined up for immediate expenditures those one-time expenditures that then get back in the pool Etc but in the long over the course of 30 years there should be a shorter break point in which the taxpayer gets a break because those school fundings we saw it that is broken that is broken where the 2% cap could be I know you said exceptions we're seeing it one day that could be us if a republican gets in charge of the statement that's not a partisan statement they will come after the blue cities like us that's what's going to happen so what I would like to do and out of respect of all those that are here uh for maybe other matters is rather than just going back and forth all night okay um I believe that the mayor made it excellent point you've admitted that um your initial reason for uh that your initial analys is was flawed you had you made some mistakes on the Woodmont one I okay on the literally missed his zero it was terrible but based on that you know you were you were asking us to make a decision based on your research at that time and this is the precise reason on why um we trust our Administration We Trust our mayor that um we're making the right decision you're bringing up a lot of points but we're I can't go back and forth with you all night long and give everyone a um you know two points of you two credits of continuing education on pilot programs um this is just it it it you're you're making all of the points that you feel why it's valid for us to only uh to shoot down a a 30-year pilot the mayor has made a point that we agree with on several points on that we agree with on why uh we're allowing and voting on which we haven't yet but we're voting on um for a 30-year pilot well let me conclude we're not going to get way but I feel that you've made I feel that you've made your point enough that we we can move forward in our meeting because um we're we're we're right now at this point I've already established that I believe that the council is in agreement with the mayor um and and the administration for the research and the analysis that they've done done in approving these pilot programs and what you're saying right now um there's still information out there that you have admitted that you you're not privy to in order for to to change our mind but you are so my ask is your this is the burden of being in those seats is sure you should be asking this before the vote of the mayor this is what you Mr McCormack mayor so sorry I keep saying that mayor McCormack is that the best way forward for all all these reasons that have been brought up what does a 15year look like what does a 20-year look like that's my opinion that's my ask on what this body does and this behind the scenes this is not the first time that we're we're discussing this I know okay no I get I know there's I know there iore so we do ask questions we ask a lot of questions there a lot of emails that go back and forth and we make sure that we're doing the right thing for uh the stakeholders of Woodbridge Township and um I as I said I believe that the information that we have is good enough for us to to make a vote but I appreciate your comments tonight yeah look I I tried to keep it as temporate you know to I I'm I'm not trying to make enemies here I live here so I hope you I and even mayor McCormack I hope you appreciate what I'm trying to do despite I know it's a pain in the rear but I'm just trying to say if there's a better way to thread a needle I just want to find it and I feel like my my at least the three at large the president and my representative at least those five represent me specifically specifically that that's my ask is to at least look at the alternatives to say is this the best way forward from the taxpayer standpoint from the developer standpoint I don't want them being negative negative profit but I want development I'm on your side I will say this you can you can count on us to ask those questions thank you thank you thank you very much are there any other comments tonight on fgh or I here are no other comments but I get a motion that the public he be closed and these ordinance be adopted and submitted to the mayor for approval as required by law motion second any questions or comments from Council all in favor I I oppos eyes have it letter J listed before you is a first reading ordinance can I get a motion that this ordinance be passed on first reading published in the home dist on Friday August 9th 2024 with notice of public hearing to be held on August 20th 2024 at 6: p.m. motion second any questions or comments from Council uh yes Mr Mitch I'd like to abstain from letter J please so noted any other comments all in favor I I oppos eyes have and finally Mr President you have resolution 1 through 21 list I get a motion to approve one through 21 motion second are there any questions or comments from Council Mr Mitch I'll ask kindly ask my fellow Council mates for their consideration and support on resolutions number 3 and4 any other comments All favor I oppos I thank you we will now go into our public portion of the meeting tonight um uh please when you approach the microphone please state your name section of the township that you live in uh or state and um you'll have a one-time opportunity to speak up to 5 minutes um any videotaping must be done in the blue uh ribboned area and um just we ask that you're respectful of one another and make sure that you keep any signs that you may have out of the aisles uh for safety reasons um and uh I will give you a reminder uh when you have one minute remaining all right are there any comments from the public this evening no comments from the public good evening mayor and Council uh I'm not a resident of Woodbridge I live actually in Ocean County oh thanks for being here lovely Place well the rain coming up was a lot of fun I'll just tell you that much but uh your first name sir sure my name is Barry last name is Bender b n d a r thank you I live in forkid River New Jersey and I'm a member of an organization called voter Choice New Jersey and what we're doing as an or oops I'm going to keep my hand off of that cuz it makes noise thank you um what we're doing is we're promoting something called rank Choice voting here in New Jersey I don't know if folks are familiar with rank Choice voting if I should give a quick description or are people knowledgeable anyone um whatever you would like to okay I'll do real real quick rank Choice voting instead of uh when there's more than two candidates running for a position instead of picking a candidate you rank the candidate in your order of preference your first choice your second choice etc etc when the votes come in if none of the candidates have more than 50% meaning a majority not just a plurality because what we use now is called plurality voting a majority of the votes the lowest vote getter then drops off anyone who chose that candidate as their first choice their vote then moves to their second choice and this continues over and over until one of the candidates receives better than 50% of the vote what it guarantees is that the winner of the election will have support of more than 50% of the people uh when when the election is finally completed it's also known as automatic runoff which is the counting portion where it continues and continues as a runoff election would um to come up with the winner what it also does is for those towns that do have runoff elections it eliminates the need for a runoff election and the expense of a runoff election which we've found in in many cities where the turnout as the runoff elections continue gets lower and lower and you have Les less people voting so we're what we're promoting in New Jersey actually there's two resolutions and I don't have the numbers in my head but there's a resolution in the state senate and in the assembly uh to allow cities that wish to put a ballot question on their ballot and allow the people to vote whether they want to use rank Choice voting and we as voter Choice New Jersey are traveling around the state and Ed educating folks about rank Choice voting so I wanted to come here tonight and present the con except if you didn't have it already of rank Choice voting to you we've actually had a couple of uh of wins there's something called a trigger ordinance uh which says that as soon as the state passes these um two bills that that particular City will uh put a ballot question on the ballot and ask the people if they want to use rank Choice voting so far we've gotten Hoboken and Jersey City with trigger ordinances we got a resolution from the burrow of Red Bank also supporting rank Choice voting as I said we're early in the game but we're traveling around the state promoting rank Choice voting and uh um one of the I'll give you a benefit this past general election last year in Carney the mayor of Carney was elected with 37% plurality which meant 63% of the people didn't want that person to be mayor of their Town rank Choice voting would eliminate that kind of situation from occurring so um just wanted to share with you folks um if there's any questions I can can answer for you I'd be happy to do so I have other folks here that are with me from the from our organization well thank you very much for the education and the information um uh this is broadcast so there will be people that uh will be watching um but uh we do appreciate you coming to our meeting tonight thank you very much thank you are there any other comments this evening uh hi I'm Luke uh I'm from Island I'm also with them um I'm also here to uh advocate for rank Choice voting uh I support because uh we believe that it um it helps um bring up candidates that are like uh who have more uh candidates who are more diverse like people color women uh candidates at um like you know Polo or um candidates like that uh and that it helps uh um makes voters more likely to come out to vote if they see a candidate who you know might not be that mainstream but they can still vote for and have their voice heard that's all thank you thank you for your comments any other comments hi good evening everyone my name is Veronica azwa and I am here from Jersey City New Jersey um but I was born in Middle sex County and I went to ruter which I believe is in Middle sex County as well um and I frequent here because you have a you have a store called West Marine and I've picked up boating as a hobby lately and I make my way here to uh to visit that sore and get all I need to repair the boat and and go out and enjoy myself um but like uh my colleagues here from voter Choice New Jersey I'm here to show my support for a rank Choice voting trigger ordinance or a resolution uh there are 564 municipalities in New Jersey um I worked for the State Office of innovation um and I stood up their data and policy program so I know I know how you know a little bit about how New Jersey works and there's a strong sense of home rule here um I know we have several different forms of government um but I I'm here to you know really ask that folks think about what a resolution or trigger ordinance in support of rank Choice voting can do um some of the the major problems that we face today uh and in in New Jersey particularly are low voter turnout um or uncontested elections and those are becoming you know more of the norm these days and so although this is you know this is sort of an an electoral process or a government process issue it's still extremely important um we have seen that you know rank Choice voting is used in over 60 cities in in the nation it's been used for over a hundred years in in Ireland and Australia as their main uh you know system of of electing candidates um and overwhelmingly the population the voters they express a much more positive voter experience um and we know that today uh in this country democracy is is becoming a an issue um and we need people to be more engaged in our elections and we think that this is a you know this is One reform that is going to get people out interested in their local government um a lot of people you know don't come out to to City Hall and I know you would like to hear from a lot of your constituents um on matters that you know uh impact them well I strongly believe that rank something like rank Choice voting is that Catalyst that can really get people more involved they'll be more involved with the people running they'll learn a little bit more about who's in government uh because people feel like their vote is not wasted um if there is a candidate who they don't think has a a really good shot at winning they can still support that candidate um and know that they're they're still they still have some skin in the game um because they can express that on the ballot um so uh we hope to have some voter education events that encourage people to vote um and be involved in local elections and also to teach them about rank Choice voting uh how it works we like to do rank the bagels we are New Jersey after all so uh you know we or rank the pizza toppings uh another favorite uh New Jersey topic or rank the music artists we've got a lot of great um you know musical talent that that comes from New Jersey uh so these are some of the programs that we like to put on for the public uh we like to get you know have a a venue um Host this event and it's a it's a nice Community event one minute left thank you uh so we we hope to run some of those programs here um and as as Barry mentioned Hoboken and Jersey City recently passed trigger ordinances uh but we are are really looking for rep you know uh councils across the state um to consider rank Choice voting we don't just want this to be a North Jersey thing Red Bank did pass a resolution that's not North Jersey but um still uh you know we we want to see everyone uh learn about this and and get more interested uh thank you very much for having us thank you for your comments and I know someone who would probably be interested in the bagel [Applause] ranking welcome back hey long time I easy stuff this is Soft Stuff Scott Gorge wood proper there's three things I was curious about number one when I see other downtowns which again we joked when I first moved here that you can't be the town the township is named after and not have the best downtown again I'm on your side uh when I go to like mouin Westfield wherever in the surrounding areas and and and other areas there's a couple of things at stand down I want to know what we can do for a couple of areas number one how do we incentivize more trees big Lush canopy Treeline streets I I I don't know if it's there's a difference that other towns the people don't own the sidewalks but I notice we do which is i' I've learned the hard way and a lot of people have cut down their trees because their sidewalks eventually you know do all this what can we do maybe via pilot money program to incentivize just more trees just big luscious canopy Tree Line streets that's number one that's what I've seen as a theme in other towns that have you seen the trees right outside this uh building that were just recently planted I saw yeah but I mean like I don't know the cost of this kind of thing but how do we spread that out a lot of like Amboy Aven stuff they're very Barren of that of that canopy which I think is subtle but is a difference between those towns and our you're talking about sycamore trees like you see in mouin okay I love that too but I'll tell you right now it's a nightmare when it comes to your electricity and when they come down uh they take down a lot of line maybe not in sore specifically but just just trees as a as a More Concept I don't know the difference between species and the viability of wires and depth of I don't know that stuff what tears up uh sidewalks more I don't know that's number one number two I thought I remember I maybe this isn't exist anymore but I thought there used to be a subsidy program where we would help stores improve their signage that we would subsidies I thought I saw where long time ago if there isn't can there be one and then if there is one can we do we let the stores know like a lot of stores are start some of the signs starting to rip apart he's not here but Mr V's signs aren't really being kept up to snuff but uh but that's another difference is there's more there's more consistency of signage and thank God people like Sharon and others are here with newer stores that's revitalizing them but can we incentivize or subsidize our program to help cover some of the cost of helping these storefronts whether on Maine or elsewhere improve their signage to be either more consistent more attractive Etc and then third in apologies uh councilwoman MCO I probably should just email you this I know had a major sewer repair on Baron street thank you for that I didn't even know that was a thing but it it was pretty bad they they fixed it and they were very quick and efficient now that we've cut up the street for a couple years I think we've been asking to repave Baron and I got repaved to a point but can we can we I don't know how the the neighborhood of the street applies now that we've got major work out of the way because it would have been a disaster if we paid for that to get repaved and then they tore it up for the sewer repair what do we need to do for Baron Avenue to be paved it's starting to get torn up pretty bad those are my three questions trees signage Street okay um I'll just make a comment uh that um as far as uh the roads they're they're ranked you know they're uh ranked worse to First those roads that are in worst shape get the first uh attention um because uh I know you mentioning U Baron Avenue um I was driving this morning down Lake and I went to make a right on Arthur and Arthur was was recently and I saw a resident that had recently just um made a comment about some drainage and being CL uh some flooding issues that they've had uh but all of the new piping were already there uh so I'm I'm very proud of the work that we're doing uh very quickly but when we um I'm sure it's whacka I'm sure when when we have to um rip up the street to uh we try to patch them up as best we can and it is they get the ranking system but if there's any other comment um from the administration and Mr Mr mcy I thought it was like it may have been last year year before I thought we were like on a schedule I don't remember I I didn't look at the emails I don't remember well first of all in the trees we replace dozens of trees every year we have a program now for 100 free trees for the first 100 people that come in to ask them for them uh we don't typically Place trees anywhere unless somebody wants us to and then if we Das we will look at it and see what we can find as far as funding so we do have a very aggressive tree pre replacement program the second one on the facade years ago we had a downtown facade Improvement program that we covered through I think it was cdbg it did not work uh people did not ask for it but now the Woodbridge Sid does have a facade replacement program and though not sure if it's a match or how that works it's an independent entity from us it's a match it's a match it's a match so if you spend five grand we'll give you five they'll give you five grand yeah so that program does exist and baron Avenue is scheduled to be repaved this year it moved up because it was torn up for the water project and it's going to be done between Grove and church or Freeman green or or no wa it's going to be paav from from where stop green to Freeman green to Freeman right oh no way thank you so yes it'll be done all right thank you regarding the signs is there a reach out to I I don't know if if stores just don't know sorry are there any other comments from the public this evening another com to Clos the public comment motion secondos to the agenda um we're going to go into the agenda my agenda is in order I do want to make one mention of uh one position uh that I was aware of with hackin saac Meridian health is in the process of hiring a housing stability coordinator um so uh housing stability coordinator is responsible for developing and implementing collaborations uh for housing stability and policy systems and environmental change interventions that increase access to appropriate housing with a focus on supporting limited income community members throughout the uh three region hackens saac Meridian uh health network service area the coord coordinator will develop and manage multiple housing stability initiatives focused on uh building Partnerships that increase access to housing housing stability and connection to housing related Services uh you can go on to the hackin sack Meridian uh Health uh SL uh.org Edison um if you are interested in this position so please check hackensac Meridian health.org uh councilman uh Council vice president spil thank you council president uh my agenda is in order God Bless America thank you okay just make sure I get to the next person sorry councilman thank you council president I have some stuff over here first all thank you those out to our Recreation Department specifically Bobby toiny iano and Brian holar for their great work with our rescheduled uh Pizza run last Wednesday over 150 people participated uh it was a great run and uh it was pulled off very nicely it also leads up to our September 1st which is the Sunday before uh Labor Day for the crossroads race and I'm happy to announce this year that we will be partnering with the barisa to Faro foundation and that Foundation supports children in need throughout middlex County uh including student athletes in many of our high schools uh again that's September 1st that's a Sunday check-in is at 8:00 a.m. the race begins at 9:00 it's a 5k everything is over at Alvin P Williams Park and you can go on to comp Ser compuserve.com to register if you just put in the uh Woodbridge uh Woodbridge race in there also announcing as I have been the uh the Senior Olympics for New Jersey are coming up of course Woodbridge Township is the home of Woodbridge of New Jersey Senior Olympics September 6 7 and 8 you still have an opportunity to register by August 23rd uh local folks from Woodbridge Township to get a break and you can go to NJ Senior Olympics plural.com that's NJ Senior Olympics plural.com uh there are a number of these registration books throughout town uh in many of our public places so uh that's all I have council president and by the way the cars tribute band is playing tonight so it's a little late to to mention that but it's good for us to get going all right uh councilman B thank you council president my agenda's in order I have two announcements uh second cruise night for the Ford's business Community will be held on Monday August 19th from 5:30 p.m. excuse me to 8:30 p.m. at sierin paints that's at 372 new project avue fors come out and view classic cars be food trucks vendors and more uh last night the mayor and myself the opportunity to swear in three new career firefighters in Ford's fire district 7 they are Ryan Rivera Anthony Harland and Brandon n also three firefighters were opponent to Captain they were Frank deletro Benjamin delro and Thomas nevas congratulations to all and to the new firefighters have a safe long healthy career God bless Amir God bless all our First Responders that's all I have thank you council president thank you Council small thank you council president I'll hold my agenda I attended a uh public hearing last week regards to a new rail line that's going to be installed in Port ring to alleviate traffic on Rosewood Lane I just want to thank the administration for many many years of hard work uh I understand who you're dealing with but uh a special thank you to Casey Wagner who's been working uh very very hard in this project and I appreciate everything you've done uh God bless all our First Responders and God bless America thank you Mr President thank you Council de thank you council president I just have one announcement the Woodbridge Public Library at the main Library they will host a puppet show with Robert rogers's puppet company at 2 and 3:30 p.m. this Saturday August 10th for children ages 5 through 13 and their families as part of the summer reading program register online at w library.org or call the library at 732 634 4450 that's all that I have thank you thank you Council me uh my agenda is in al uh order also I just have one announcement I say the date for October 12th will be our annual breast cancer walk in Colonia that'll be followed by our October Fest and I will have more details closer to that those events that's all I have thank you councilman pel thank you Council I I have also a few announcements uh the Indian Business Association is organizing its annual India's Independence Day Parade on this Sunday August 11th o Road will be closed from bu pora Avenue from 2:00 p.m. to 400 p.m. and oy Road from Cora Avenue to Middle STX Avenue will be closed from 2:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. in addition to that the Pakistani American Community is also organizing a Pakistan India's I mean Pakistan's Independence Day Parade on o Road a week later on Sunday August 18th from 2:00 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. the o Road from middle Avenue to Bo Avenue will be closed through traffic during these hours due to these parades expect increased traffic and potential delays in the surrounding areas please plan alternate routes to navigate through these areas and follow appropriate dets and also follow the directions given by the Township police officers we thank our Police director for providing safer traffic and safer float procession during these parades also our town mobile health unit will be stationed in the mar park on Thursday August 8th from 9:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. and also this mobile health unit will be stationed at the five branches Senior Center on Friday August 9th from 9:30 to 12:30 p.m. all Woodby Township residents will get free healthcare screening and these two locations at specified times on those days we thank our mayor and health director Phil Philip balski for providing this Noble service to our Council presidents that's all thank you looking forward to the end parade this Sunday Council W call thank you council president my agenda is in order I just have two announcements to remind everybody that the farmers market is open in Parker press uh located um parking across the street at uh Berkeley College to be able to get there there's an officer there to acrush you in Parker press it's from 9 9 to1 every Saturday and the other thing I have is to remind everybody that anchors is now open at 6:16 Cliff Road in sewor check social media for all of the events that are being held there uh thank you council president that's all I have this evening thank you what was that Mr Mitch as far as I know yes yeah you can my agenda is in order Mr President thank you all right Mr Wagner thank you pres we'll have a few resolutions next week we will have tax T over payments tax appeals both County and state and we will have couple resolution for 100% to say letter thank youor thank you council president nothing this evening thank you Director D thank you council president nothing this evening director bro thank you council president I have one item it's a final change order contract 2023 D 021 that's for the PO Park pickleball cour right legal motion to adj motion second he