--------- I think I did I sometimes see >> sorry I was muted here >> and green street >> here looking for an approval of the agenda.
>> Move that the agenda be approved. >> Do we have a second? >> Second call please. Barkley >> I >> Davidson >> I >> Yaness >> I >> Gordon >> I >> Green Street >> I
>> All right agenda has been approved that brings us to the executive session so I'll look for a motion to convene into executive session pursuant to CRS24-6-424E for the purpose of discussing and determining positions concerning matters
that may be subject to negotiations developing strate strategy for negotiations and instructing negotiators specifically with respect to the merit academy charter contract and facilities use agreed. >> I move that we go into executive session for the reasons mentioned.
>> I second that. >> Any discussion before the vote here? >> Roll call please. >> I Davidson >> I street. passes and we will have our superintendent and our CFO.
>> He's here. >> Okay. join us executive session. Oh, perfect. All right, we are back officially from our executive session. Um the only thing it's not necessarily
here on the agenda, but I do think we need to discuss um an additional date for meeting uh to kind of wrap this all up. Um >> and are you thinking executive session? So, special board meeting with an
executive session. Yes, >> I think that would be perfect. >> Yeah. Contract negotiation. >> Yeah. >> Turns out an hour is not quite enough. >> Yeah. >> Um, so bringing out my paper calendar because
if I don't write it down, I forget it. Um, what does everyone's availability look like next week so that we can wrap it up sooner rather than later? Are we looking day or evening or all of
it? I'm I'm pretty open. >> I work Monday during the day. >> I'm available Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I have a 6 a.m. flight. So, going too late on Wednesday night would
not be my preference, but I can make that work. >> Could we do daytime on Wednesday? Will mural work allow that? [clears throat] [laughter] It's okay if it doesn't. I know >> I can be flexible. I'll make sure I pack earlier in the day
at night time >> potentially Wednesday afternoon. >> Yeah. Good. All day wrestling. >> Uh Laura, Laura, do we have you back? >> Yes. And I can do all day Wednesday. So then Cassie, is there a specific time
that works better with your work schedule? >> Um, right now after 11:30, but I'm going to have to move like four or five other meetings. So I think we can t tentatively plan on that. Um, and I
might just see if I can take the afternoon off. Yeah. To make that work. Is there a time though that would not require you to have to move so many things like if we did it at starting at three again? Um would that help or four?
>> I just don't want to wait till six I guess is my if we can have >> I also I'm I'm thinking about staff because >> that way maybe we can do it >> doing during the workday. Yeah, that is hopeful. Um yeah, I could possibly do that. Right
now, my the three the time when I'm the most free would be Tuesday evening. But if I let me see what I can figure out on Wednesday. Um I would let's plan on Wednesday afternoon right now if we can. Okay. 2 o'clock 3:00.
>> What's the What's the earliest you would want to do? >> I'm I am open on Wednesday. So >> open on Wednesday. >> Yeah. >> I am too. Let's if we can let's start at if we could do like one or 130 I could
do I could do as early as that probably I can move forward with 130. >> Yeah. Let's do that for now and then if anything comes up let us know and we can >> adjust as needed. for the moment. Does 1:30 work for everybody
>> on Wednesday? Yes. >> Breaking our rules meeting in July. [laughter] Yeah. >> Okay. So, we'll plan for 1:30 and then adjust as needed, but we'll go forward with that. Okay.
Excellent. Um, so then at this time I look for a motion to agend the special board meeting portion of our afternoon. Make a motion to adjourn the special board meetings. >> Second. Any further discussions?
Roll call, please. Frankly, >> I. >> Davidson, I >> Gilganess. I >> Green Street. Uh meeting is agenda. So we want to we got to rearrange. Part: 2
question to the corner here. Do you follow >> students being here? >> It's on the agenda, but that's not what we do usually. >> It's up I can do it or we can just make them leave the floor as
I have a question. >> We didn't do that the last one, right? >> No. >> We didn't say she goes to sleep. >> Yeah. >> Great. I think we're ready. >> Okay. >> Would you like to start? >> Appreciate you all taking some time to do this. Um we're going to have a little bit of
a couple hours I guess together and go over a few learning outcomes and some information. In general, I would like this to be obviously most impactful for you all, so don't feel like you have to wait for questions to the end or if I do think I say something incorrect, which is entirely possible.
Feel free to correct me on that, so I don't know how to go from there. I gave all of you my business card. That's my cell number. Feel free to call or text anytime. I talk to folks a lot. It's one of the parts of what I do that I really like, so and then you all are also going to see
CASBO rebrand, so this is we just started we just rolled this out in June, so on June 1st, so you are the first time I presented using this. So we'll see how the slides and everything go. I'm told this is what I'll be doing for
the next few years, so you're going Uh so CASBO is your member organization. We represent all of our 1,000 school districts now, so thank you. We do model policy and information. We
look at So the legislature just finished about a month ago, so we'll go through and look at all the laws. You know, we don't have many this year, thank goodness. And and see what kind of policy updates, changes have to be made. You all are in the process of getting an audit from us as well. Uh that's a free part of your
membership. And so what we'll do is we'll return that back to you and say, you know, here's what we think is missing. Uh here's what we think is legally required. Here's what we think uh we would suggest that that to you all the needs to look at, you know, where things are at. Uh we provide legal information. We're not your lawyer, but
uh we can provide that. So if you ever have questions, we have a really dynamic lawyer and he or she is available anytime. And if you uh you know, uh all due respect to my lawyer friends, you want to save a couple bucks and we can help you out, we encourage you to do so.
Uh and then advocacy, that's what I do most of the year. So I'm your registered lobbyist at the capital. I'm down at the state capital almost every day during the session. And then we also do quite a bit with the federal government. More so lately than we have in the past. And then board training, board
facilitation. That's the part of my job I really enjoy the most. So uh we have already worked with 20 25 boards uh this year. And we've got a bunch more scheduled. And so it it's really want to make it uh that what we're presenting to you.
So this is best practices, things that we have experienced over the years working with boards. You all are the final arbiters, so you are the ones that were elected to do the job. So you are the ones to get to say that. Sometimes people say, "Well, CASB should do that." We should do that. And
we appreciate that, but it really is up to the board because you're the ones that were elected to do that. So uh I served on the school board for eight years. I was board president for five. I was president of the CASB Board of Directors uh and then back on staff. This is my 11th
year. And uh I'm certified in policy governance. You all dabble in policy governance. And I hope we're going to have a conversation with that. So the Carver book I brought along just in case. Um so kind of give you an idea of what we're looking to do. We want to do a little bit development around the
boards, and leadership team, uh overview of board governance. Talk about how KASB or other facilitators might be able to help the board going forward, and then hopefully um have a little bit of fun. This is, you know, sometimes I say school board work and
fun before. Give me that side eye, but okay, we can do that. So, also I would like to Like I said, make it as interactive as possible. I don't want to sit here and drone on for the next couple of hours. So, if you have questions or things, uh let's do that. So, uh if we could, Madam President, I think I know everybody, but
could we just go back and do introductions? >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh suppose I'll start since I'm already talking. Um my name is Keegan Barkley. I am the president of the school board. This is my third year on the school board. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. I'm Jennifer Sloan, superintendent. And I started in August as the interim. July 1st I start as the permanent. >> You can go ahead. >> Secretary to the board and to the superintendent.
>> Lindsey Botting. >> Yes. Robert Hill. >> [clears throat] >> One of the directors. I started in February, February of this year. >> Um Carol Greenstreet. I'm service vice president, and it's my second time on the board. First time was 9 years. And
I've been on since November. >> Cassidy Yoder, also a director on the board, and uh serving since November of or August. >> And then we'll have David Currituck joining us. He's our CFO. He's on a call right now. He's going to be in short.
>> Okay. All right. So, I'd like to start out with just kind of a level-set question, and there's no right answer, no wrong answer. If you make notes and pass them on to CD, you know, I hate uh I think it's important sometimes to I'm
a big Stephen Covey guy, so start with the why. Why do we do this work? So, Madam President, if you don't mind, we'll start and then I'll just ping-pong around however you want to. Why Why did you want this job? >> Yeah. Uh I ask myself that a lot. >> [laughter] >> No. Uh initially the initial why um
quite honestly is I didn't think the board at the time was doing a good job in governance. Um I didn't think they were taking it seriously enough or um thinking of long-term consequences for the entire district. So, my why when I started um was was to help fix that.
Um to come on and and make sure that contracts were read and all of the students were considered in the major decisions. Um and I suppose that's why I'm still here. Uh you know, as the board has changed over, um my my role has changed, but the why
is still the same, right? Making sure that we're making good policy decisions, making sure we're setting up the district for success going forward, um and that all of the students in the district are taken care of. Cool. >> We don't have to go in any order, so if anybody would like to chime in on
why you wanted to do this. >> Well, I think Am I Am I also allowed >> Absolutely. >> Um I think everyone here has probably heard my why a lot, but this will be my 30th year in education. I was a teacher for
17 years, a principal for 10 years, chief academic officer, and now this um role, and I really care about our community, our students. I know so many of our students and families from my time as a principal. My husband's also a teacher at the high school, Virginia
Senior High. Our daughters, one has graduated, one is still in high school. This is my community and I care about it and I want to make sure that we're honoring our families and doing the very best for our students. >> We wanted to set up Slate Rock.
>> I I'm I think a school is one of the most important pieces of a community. I think it's a place where a community comes together and supports the future of our of our community and our and our country. I think schools are essential
and need to be strong and I wanted to help um um strengthen our school district. >> I'll just jump in and say too, I um I would I go along with Keegan sharing in terms of just wanting to see a board that that governs well,
that that represents the community, that listens, that does their job diligence [clears throat] in all of the actions that they take to support the students in the community. I'm also a parent. I have students that attend our schools, former coach for 10 years working with the district and I've worked with a lot of families and got to know them that way. Um and I think too that like over the
past several years our community's been through a lot and part of what I wanted to do coming onto the board was to help find a way forward that can bring our community together and help us have a a better working relationship with our our charter school but also make sure that we're serving our district students and all of our
students in community well. So. >> As I had retired from the Air Force as a civilian after 35 years and saw a ton of great leaders and after observing this the board of education of the uh five years and up there were opportunities that there were
some gaps that could be filled. And wanted to be a part of a team that worked well together and after watching this team I was asked to consider applying for the vacant seat and I did so in hopes that
I can help improve relationships in our community with the charter school, with community leadership and really just stop the divide, stop the bleeding within Woodland Park. And then also to encourage hope through
just fair governance, documented policy, clear expectations across the board where everybody knew what was going to occur and actually read the contracts that were signed and knew that what is being implemented
was what was agreed to. And then really be a part of a team that's pursuing excellence for academic excellence, for staff excellence, for teachers excellence and for a community to be part of excellence and to give back even to what we used to be, a great
community tied together as one team, one voice, work at everybody working for the students. And so this just felt like a great opportunity to be part of a team that was something bigger than myself which is again something that all of these folks share. They want to
be a part of something bigger than themselves. >> That's good. The reason I asked this question and it's usually a couple of things. So it's people will say, "Well, I was hired to fire the football coach." So it's the football coach. I I don't know >> [laughter] >> what it is.
I'm therefore they'll say, "I was hired I I got elected to represent this group." And I usually tell them, "That's great. Now you represent everybody in the school district that they like or don't like, you didn't vote for them, they don't even know who you are." So I always appreciate when I hear good intense.
So the the follow-up question then is is what do you think the role of the board is? Just throw that out to anybody who would like to take a stab at it. And again, no right and no wrong. >> I'm going to try not to interject too much because I have done your program
before. >> Yeah. >> And I you facilitated one of the our board meetings retreats before, so. >> I would think one of the things that we are called to do is provide oversight for the taxpayers' money. And our public education program within Woodland Park, within our community, to
ensure that we're bringing the best programs to our students. >> For sure. Other thoughts? And it's okay if you don't have a, you know, clearly defined idea of what your thoughts are.
>> I think provide vision. >> Okay. >> Um um provide the overall, this is where our community wants to go. Provide that to the staff to figure out this is how we get there. This is These are the tools that we've
used. This is what we need. Find out And And I think funding is a big role of the board to ensure that there's adequate funding for our district to do what we're charging them to do. >> I think I just add to Carol's point in
like the um the fiduciary responsibility, but also the policy governance and being a bridge to the community point, too. They represent their voices and concerns, I guess. >> Yeah. Colorado is a bit unique in that
we're one of six states that has local control. So, you all are actually in the constitution, Article 9, Section 15, publicly elected boards of education control the curriculum. And the courts have extended that pretty extensively that you have broad plenary duties, legal things.
Um there's not much that the school board can't do. And so, we're fairly unique. Legislators really like it when it comes to that they don't want to do something and they debated when I said, "Yeah, you can't do that." And they're like, "Why?" Cuz the Constitution says so. Uh the other piece that I would throw
out and again, not always popular when I say it. Uh I don't believe per se that the budget is the most important thing the board does. Uh in my opinion, it's a reactive document largely. It tells you what you spent before unless the board
makes it a tactical document and says, "Here's where we want to go and we want to ensure those resources are available and those kind of things." So, just to give you an idea, uh Colorado budget uh starts July 1, roughly about $43 billion.
Uh K-12 is uh almost $11 billion. So, one out of every $4 that the state expends goes to K-12. And so, it's a huge undertaking. And school boards, because you are typically one of the larger employers in the community, uh certainly have a budget that's quite
large usually, sometimes larger than the county or the municipality. And then, oh by the way, you're educating people's kids, right? It has gotten so politicized in the last 10 years ish. Uh it's it's one of the hardest jobs there is right now in my mind. There is
not a elected position that I feel is harder to do or do well than school board. So, um at the same time, uh I really do applaud you all for saying, "Hey, we need to sit down and talk about some of this." Uh I think there was a time not too long
ago, um certainly not when I was on the board, but prior to that where boards really in Colorado did everything. They signed every contract, interviewed every teacher. Uh you know, that was really, you know, prior to the late '40s, maybe even
before World War II, but um and that's not the case anymore. It's just gotten so complex now. There There so many layers to govern in a school district and and what goes on. So, um this is a really really hard job and what I tell
folks is we hopefully would never put an educator in front of a classroom without some professional development. But, you know, Rob, welcome to the board. Don't screw it up. We'll give you >> [laughter] >> four years, right? And it feels that way sometimes, right? Because we just assume. And if you look
at the boards that have been really successful group governors for years and years, it's that succession piece, right? They onboard folks and they instill that tradition. But, it doesn't take very much to to ruin that pretty quickly. And there's lots of good examples, unfortunately,
around the state where you had some high-performing organizations that you know, just a few decisions have really gone by the board. So, uh these are eight effective, highly effective characteristics of school boards. But, these are in your packet. I'm not
going to narrate these. The one I like is number five. Uh effective school boards have data. They embrace and monitor data and use it to drive continuous improvement. So, uh Chris Kiedrowski, who's a really good superintendent in the Adams 12 School District, he and I have worked together. And he
said something one time in a presentation we were making that has really kind of struck home to me. And what he says is boards are data rich, but tactically poor. I can call CDE and I can get a encyclopedia of data, right? But, unless
I know what I'm looking at and how I would apply that tactically to make changes, it's not so much. So, I was lucky to hire two superintendents. The first superintendent I hired was a retired two-star general uh in the Air Force, actually. And uh we were a policy governance board. And the first time he
brought a monitoring report, it looked like NASA, right? And we we didn't know what to do with that, right? So, that's that tactical piece. How do we make these tactical decisions? Uh and then we're going to talk about that a little bit. There's certainly a role for the board, a role for the superintendent in how we do that. The other one I'll
highlight for you is um effective school boards and the superintendents lead as a united team, each from their respective roles, strong collaboration and mutual trust. I am not aware of any school district that is highly performing good governance if the board and the
superintendent aren't like this, okay? So, a junior plugger here, I'll tell you superintendents, I've said this, there are a lot of superintendents that just kind of look at the board like the bosses I have to have one, so we're going to we're going to do what we can. The really good superintendents, though,
are invested in the board's development and their success. And the really good boards are invested in the superintendent's development and success. Um, superintendency, the average superintendency is less than 3 years now. Makes you want to laugh, which is just insane to me.
Um last year, well, over the last 4 years, there have been upwards of 40 new superintendents out of 178 Colorado. So, basically in a 4-year, 5-year period, we not dollar to dollar, but we've turned over
every superintendency in the state, basically, which is really, really hard. So, when you find a good superintendent, you put a lot of time and effort into finding that person who really believes the board to be invested in their success, right? And it's not an us versus them. It really is, how do we as a team come
together to do [clears throat] this? So, All right, so let's just talk briefly kind of the legal role of the board. I want to highlight a few things. Any questions on anything so far? Anything pops up and I'll I'll let me know. I'd love to hear that. Madam Superintendent, do you and your
staff do anything So, we talked a little bit about Article 9, Section 15, Colorado Constitution. Boards are really important. Boards and county commissioners are in the constitution, so I mean, you're at that level. And I really do encourage you to think of yourself as a peer of elected official.
So, when people say, "I'm just a school board member, what would I have to say to a legislator?" I would say, "You have a lot to say to a legislator. The same people who elected that person elected you." And you are going to be the best advocates for your students in your school district. Nobody's going to advocate harder for
for that. And people sometimes say, "Well, I'm this political persuasion or that political persuasion, they wouldn't listen to me." And that's not been my experience. Um believe it or not, as much partisanship as we have at the legislature sometimes, they do get quite a bit done. Yeah, they do. It's cool. They'll give
you a really good example. So, there was a bill that uh was being introduced that would have put you all in really bad situation. You're already going to be You can be sued specifically and individually as board members in Colorado for some of the school safety stuff stuff. This would
have really expanded that. So, we put out a call uh and >> [clears throat] >> board members talked to their local legislators, their senators, uh and we were able to defeat that bill because it really was a bad bill. That's the power you have. There's five or 600 lobbyists down at
the Capitol, right? They see my, you know, Yaffee all the time. When their school board president or their school board member picks up the phone and calls, they know it's important to them and the lobbyist will listen to them. So, um you all turn act all the business in the school district, right? We should have
talked about contracts and those things. Um that's really important. However, legally there's really only three things boards have to do. You have to adopt a budget to be ready on July 1. You have to evaluate the superintendent and part of that evaluation is public,
but not all of it. And then three, you have to educate every child that shows up at the schoolhouse door. You don't get to say, "These kids, not these kids," right? Beyond that, there's a lot of things that you do, but those are really the big three, right?
Most school boards and everyone in Colorado delegates to a superintendent, okay? I don't care how big or small your organization is, the board, with everything else you all have, families, careers, outside interests,
couldn't operate the district day-to-day. And I have seen some boards drop, and it usually does not end up very good. So, um again, maybe back in the '50s, the '40s, that you could have done something like that, but you really can't even the
smallest school district is a multi-million dollar operation, right? So, the role of the board. So, the board acts corporately as a whole, okay? And what I like to say is we've all been evaluated, we've all been managed, we've
all had to we've had to report to. Imagine trying to read the minds of five different people, discern that into a plan, and then oh, by the way, somebody else changes their mind, right? So, the only power the board has is a is a corporate board
corporate vote on policy. If it's not in policy, the superintendent can say, "Well, let me know how the board decided that, right?" A good superintendent, of course, is going to listen to all of the board members, right? But the first question should be is is this something
the board is to do, right? Um people again will say, "Well, I was elected to do this or that." And my question is always, "Okay, so if you accomplish that, then what? You're going to really hate your life for the next 3 years, right?" Uh if you get that done. And it's very true, because you
have to work with the board. That does not mean there shouldn't be a lot of vigorous conversation, a whole lot of debate on important topics, right? But when the board makes a decision, that's the final authority, right? So, hopefully it looks like something
I advocated very strongly for my position. The board is going another way. I'm going to continue to bring my opinion to the table, but I'm going to support the board's action, right? Hopefully we're not out in the parking lot saying, "I cannot believe that so-and-so's did that, right?" Or we're
not on Facebook doing some of that. We have a whole conversation about social media. The other piece is I don't care how many people say this, and as parents, you all know this, I'm here as my parent hat, right? You know,
all they ever see is the board. If the board shows up in any capacity at the school, probably the first thing the principal is doing is picking up the phone calling Ginger saying, "Why is the board here?" Right? So, that's not to say you shouldn't be involved in schools. I absolutely want you to do that, but I think there needs to be some
boundaries and agreements on what that's going to look like. So, the other thing I'll say is be really careful. Sometimes people will say, "Well, I know this group I advocate for them." Okay, maybe you do, maybe you don't, right? It's the board's duty to really reach out to the whole community.
Build that into your policy decisions moving forward. We're going to talk about policy governance. But, Carver is really strong, and John Carver is the author of policy governance. That's what we talked about in Carver, so. Um, CORA. CORA is a big deal in Colorado. When I
talk to my fellow um, affairs people around the the nation who work in other state parent associations, they're like, "Wait, what? Anybody can request a record?" And I said, "Absolutely." [clears throat] I didn't know until this year, honestly. Um, you can give an anonymous name. There
was a guy in northern Colorado that was submitting CORA requests as Batman. And that's you can do that, right? So, that anonymous person requested the records. So, um, I I think it's important. I think it's good because when you all do business,
this is something I really want to stress. This is a business meeting in public. It is not a public's meeting, okay? When I first started working with boards, there was a board I can't kind of northern Colorado. And they were
regularly going till 12:00, 12:30, 1:00 in the night. And I said, "Guys, what's going on here? Why is this happening?" And they were like, "The peanut gallery just gets us off track and throws it." I'm like, "Peanut gallery?" And they would literally sit off the board like this and then the community would be on around the outside. And then the
community would stand up and say, "Well, what about this?" And the board would go, "Um all control what's on the agenda, who gets to speak. There's actually no law that requires public comment. That's all driven by your policy." Um I think public comment is important, right? Uh you get to decide what's on the agenda,
who gets to speak, how long they get to speak, how often you all meet, what format should be. All of it is driven by the board, as long as you're following the law, right? The other thing with CORA that I think is interesting, uh there's a state senator, Kathy Kipp, who is a former
school board member in Florida, actually. And she has worked 3 years now, three sessions, trying to get some things in CORA that would be more beneficial >> [clears throat] >> to keep the transparency, but at the same time make it easier for school districts to comply, right? Because you
will see companies come in and just drop a CORA request. They'll come in and say, "We want all your records on janitorial services." And all they're Yeah, exactly. And all they're doing is data mining cuz they want to know that the next time the RFP comes up, I'm going to be a thousand dollars less.
And then like I said, there's no limit to CORA requests. I could file a CORA request every single day, as many as I want. Um and then you have to do do The flip side is that somebody has to to it. There has to be somebody in the district and >> [clears throat] >> you have to track it and you have to do
all that stuff. So, just be really, really careful. The other thing that's come up in in this is uh curriculum materials, library materials. >> Okay, Colorado is pretty >> straightforward how that is. All of that material is available to be reviewed by the public, but you get to set the
policy. You get to say, "Here's who you need to contact to review that." Uh you know, and those kind of things. Superintendent's office have a curriculum review committee and they will review all that and then come back to the board with a recommendation. Uh but all those public records have to
be available. That includes Please. >> No, no, let me finish. I'll ask at the end of your portion. >> Okay. Uh that includes all of your emails. Email is the devil. I really encourage you to do as little on email as
possible. Uh it also includes your text messages. Some people say, "Well, I paid for my own phone." We don't follow up. That does not count. Does not count. Your text messages, if they're conducting school business or doing board business, are public
So, the reason I say that, a lot of people say, "Well, I use my personal email address, so it's not public." That's not true. So, in Colorado, you're entitled to services if you're a special education student until 21 and then there's retention for that. So, you could be off the board a really long
time, somebody comes back and sues the school district, and the lawyer comes to you and says, "Hey, I need your Yahoo emails from 20 years ago." And you're like, "I don't You're in trouble because you have not retained that. So, always use your district account
because the district's going to set up the retention and do the legal things. And then two, really use email almost really, really sparingly, okay? A good example. So, Keegan sends out Excuse me, the matter president sends out the thing, "We're going to have pizza for the board."
Right? There was Okay, that's fine. Where you get into trouble though is when somebody says, "Hey, this is going to be on the agenda. What do you guys think?" And now you start having a conversation back and forth. So, where I live in Douglas County, that's what happened to a prior board there.
The courts determined that they had conducted a meeting the public had no vision into. So, >> Yeah. Um, Matt, when I that 9 years I was on the board, we had one CORA request the whole time. And and so,
we're in a completely different world now. And I don't remember we had like 200 and some in a couple year period. Um, have you known boards that were trying to kind of cut down on some of that? And when somebody makes a
CORA request, maybe we make it known to the whole community, you know? Have you seen people publish um, CORA requested things online? >> So, I'm going to I'm going to say something you've never
said in your life. I'm not an attorney. >> Yeah. >> I'm not your attorney. I'm always going to defer to your attorney. My personal opinion, just one man's opinion, is that that would be a relatively bad idea. >> Okay. >> For a couple of reasons. One, there are
and and you'll hear me say this when we get to like employee stuff or student stuff. When people bring you those things, I encourage you to say, "You have legal rights. I have the district has legal rights. I want to protect your rights. I want to protect the district. So, we cannot have this conversation."
When it's out there like that. So, you could CORA a CORA request, right? You could say how many CORA requests did you get. The other thing is you can put anything you want in a CORA request. And so, if somebody sends a submits a CORA request, "I want all the emails." And this
happened to one of the biggest school districts with the word "cat, tail, litter box, something else. It was legitimately 50,000 emails. And that's all they asked for. So, there's no context why that was
asked for. And I think having that out there, people would look at that, "Well, what's that about? And what's going on? And why does somebody think that that's important?" So, >> Okay. >> My opinion would be no, but speak to your lawyer. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> I absolutely understand the
transparency. The other thing I would say is I would kind of link it to public comment, right? >> Mhm. True. >> Really uncomfortable public comment, cuz they get their 3 minutes or whatever your policy says. They get to say whatever they want. >> Right. >> And you can't respond because you haven't heard, right? It's very similar
to that, right? And so, I can come up and say, "You guys are all awful and you're sacrificing goats and whatever thing." And that's it. That's out there. You don't get to respond to that. And so, that's why I think it would be really hard to try and put that
in context and then kind of explain. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Great question. Appreciate that. >> Um board executive session. So, this is another one that I really, really encourage boards to be very, very careful. There are nine reasons you can
go to executive session. So, really, and it's the early 2000s, is when a lot of this came to be. It was pretty common for boards just to have a standing executive session. Um I'm making every agenda, right? We're going to meet and the board's going to
executive session. You can't do that anymore. You really can't. And when you do, there's a certain lawyer who has made kind of a cottage industry out of suing school districts >> Mhm. >> when they violate public records. And so, the executive sessions is really, really difficult.
Um You still have to report those meetings, obviously. You just had a meeting that could be a public record if you're not careful with your confidentiality. And then I really do encourage you to have that policy. I think it's 90 days that after 90 days that recording is
destroyed. Cuz this same attorney dinged the board because they did not and the court said, "Well, if the record exists, you can access." And he did. Uh there was this uh session uh too long ago where a board
kind of got off into another conversation and said some things personally about folks in the community and that kind of got leaked and then that public record request was made, that public recording was out. Really bad idea. Um
only what is in the call for the executive session is really the only thing you can talk about. The minute a person This is where you really have to be careful to say, >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we can't have that conversation. Um and then this is one that confuses people.
It's a board executive session. The board gets to determine who's invited in. So, if your attorney's there and it's attorney-client privilege, you have to be really, really careful with that. Um I would encourage you not to discuss that even with
spouses or family members because you may just say something "Yeah, I can't believe so-and-so did this." They don't know that's confidential. They go to the grocery store and say, "Hey, the district's going to fire so-and-so." Now you have a whole can of worms with confidentiality. It's really
important because if it's violated, then that veil of attorney-client privilege is pierced. Um we do give a policy and language that we provide. Uh this is the one that people ask about a lot. It's personal matters cuz people will say, "Well, I have the
right to be >> [clears throat] >> in that executive session." So, I just present that for you. Encourage you to speak to your lawyer if it ever comes up because there is a lot of nuance in that, right? And again, just be really, really
careful with executive sessions. It's something you shouldn't be doing on a regular basis. And people say, "Well, it'd be a lot easier if we could have some of those conversations in public and not have the public know that." I said, "That may be, but the law is pretty clear that you can't." So, get
comfortable having difficult conversations in public, right? Anybody you got folks watching tonight? Um You just have to get used to having those conversations in public and you they're not particularly comfortable. So, because again, in Colorado, that can come back to you corporately as a board
and in certain instances, like student safety things, you could be sued sued individually as board members as well. So, any questions on that? All right. Really, the law is pretty clear that more than two of you are meeting [clears throat] and discussing board business,
that's a board meeting, okay? There's some nuance to that, right? If the board is going to go to the the third grade fire marshal, that's one thing. But, if somebody sees the board over in the corner kind of talking to each other, then that raises a hackle.
Um I used to, when I was board president, I would invite the board, superintendent, his cabinet to my house for a barbecue to start the school year and we would notice, you know, if a reporter wants to come and watch me cook fetus, >> [laughter] >> but you got a regular board meeting, you
got a special board meeting and that is a regular meeting. There's very specific reasons why they can be called. And then you can have a work session or a retreat, but really, those are just labels we put on two or more of you are together discussing board business, it needs to be noticed, it needs to be open
to the public, it needs to be available. So, any questions kind of on the legal stuff, any of that so far? Um All right, why should the board lead by policy? Well, for one thing the law says you should and the
kind of the the the demarcation I think is we talk sometimes about board policy and administrative policy, but ultimately it's all board policy because the law says the board has to adopt it. So, even if the superintendent does an audit with CASB, it completely
updates the policy book. The board still has to to affirm that, right? The policies are in place and they're correct. It doesn't mean the board has to do the work. In fact, I would encourage you really not to do that work because there are times when it's really important that the board have input into
that policy, but there's a lot of times where it it's so far in the weeds. I I just don't have time for this before the meeting, but there's 18 months of my life when I first got on my local board where we we did the policy book on it cuz we had an in-house counsel.
I'm never going to get that time back. >> [laughter] >> It didn't really pay me. Um because and you know, they add to it all the time. So, um And the other piece is from a policy perspective and certainly we're going to talk about it in policy governance, but
um the board has to have policy that directs the superintendent, right? So, if you have goals, first of all, our real ends, those things are written down there in policy. They're written in the statement of ends. Uh the superintendent's contract is
another really good thing. Most contracts in Colorado now are really clean. Um again, not that long ago you would see things like reimbursements for mileage of automobiles or cell phones or memberships or all kinds of different
things. They're pretty clean. Um But the board needs to be aware what's in the superintendent's contract because you've agreed to that contract. You need to know what that contract says in regards to evaluation. This happened fortunately just with a
board on the Western Slope a couple of weeks ago. The contract said if the superintendent's not notified by April 1 that their services are no longer required, it automatically rolls over. Very common thing. The board did not notify them in time, and now we've got lawyers
involved, money that could be used in the classrooms being spent to get to the court, all kinds of stuff. Not just not a good idea, right? Um the other thing is is that it's kind of like the the rules of the game. If you're trying to do this without
understanding the policy the rule of that, and you're not following policy, and then you come back to it and somebody says, "Hey, we agreed to operate this way, but we're not. What's going on?" Right? And so that's really why that's so powerful. Um
what I would encourage you to do is deal with all of that policy stuff as quickly as you can so that you can get into the meat and potatoes [clears throat] of the discussions, right? What are we doing to better outcomes for kids? What are we doing to
get our financial ship in in the right direction this time and Um usually when I look at an agenda, if I see a lot of adult stuff, I know where that's that board is set, right? If I see that they're doing a lot of that in consent, right? And having a
good conversation, asking questions ahead of time, we'll talk about what that looks like. Um that's also a good indication of what our board looks like. So >> Can you clarify what you mean by that? >> With consent? With consent >> The consent agenda, yeah.
>> Consent agenda is >> I just mean like I know what it is, but I was trying like what do you mean by that in terms of use of how the board used it, what that means. >> So, for example, there are certain things that are just kind of routine and humdrum that the board has to vote on.
So, the board is still informed. It's all on the agenda. The consent agenda, you can ask whatever questions you you want. You can request to have an item taken off of the consent agenda, right? And still pass the rest. Um but that consent agenda just allows you
to do a lot of things, right? The district's got to buy diesel fuel, they've got to buy macaroni and cheese for the lunch program, and the stuff that is going to get approved, right? Things we all have to bat. The other piece on that is what I would say is I'm going to talk a little bit
Well, maybe I'll hold that for that. That's what I mean with consent agenda. >> to clarify then, so then the use of the consent agenda indicates that more uh effective board, is that what you're saying? Or I'm I just want to clarify. >> More efficient meeting. >> Efficient meeting. Gotcha. >> I mean, if you're spending
I've seen this, hours and hours on the consent agenda, then why even have a consent agenda? >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. >> want that to be an effective way to take that once we so we can get to the meat of the discussion. >> Yeah, I wanted to make sure that you weren't speaking to the opposite where you should not use
>> Oh, no. I'm not taking it off of the consent agenda. >> Okay. Okay. >> 100%. Um so, that brings us to the first kind of conversation I'd like to have with the board. It appears, again, [clears throat] as I look, you
all are kind of two worlds. You're in a policy governance, as in this, although it doesn't look like policy governance to me-ish. And then you're also kind of in in what I would call traditional governance. You still maintain all of your B policies in
your I think we go A to the Dennis, where do we go in the book? A to K or A to L? >> I think K. >> K. Um so, the B policies are where your board stuff is. So, you guys have both. And as I look at your agendas, they kind of look a little PG, and they kind of
look a little traditional. So, I would just love to hear some conversation around that and if you all know how that came about or how well you think it's working. So, >> I I'm here so I would say like give us some description of policy governance
versus traditional governance. >> Okay. >> And let that then start our our conversation. >> Sure. So, I I would say the first one is that Carver would say that the board needs to clearly define the ends or the
goals for the superintendent. I couldn't find that anywhere. I didn't see any statements. So, as a result, my question is, well, if you haven't told her what to accomplish via policy adopted by the board, how does she know what to do?
>> I can tell you there were end statements in 2019. >> Okay. I didn't see them. >> Um I know I think they're gone cuz I've looked for them, too. Um I think they're just not there. >> Okay. >> What's the What's the difference between
that, excuse me, um and uh strategic plan? Cuz that's something that we've worked on, but also wanted to balance like the level of input and engagement from staff and trying to meet the specific technical parts of that. So, I'm really curious to know what do you What would that look like?
>> Um this may not be popular. I don't typically believe the strategic plan is a board document. It's typically the superintendent's document. So, what the board says is, go forth and accomplish X and Y and Z.
Then she comes up with a strategic plan that says, the board has asked me to do this. Here's how I'm going to do it. Now, I looked at some of the stuff you have out there. You have put down a lot of work and you have some very good things there. So, I don't think it needs to be completely redone. But, I do think the board needs to be explicitly clear. I
would encourage you to have at least two, maybe three goals or end statements. Um and then use the strategic plan to bring you those action items, the updates, the evidence, cuz when we get to talking about PG, when Carver says the
monitoring reports, right? So, for instance, let's just say finances. The board says, "Madam Superintendent, we know the finances need some work. That's goal number one this year." Doesn't mean she's going to ignore everything else, right? Cuz we still have to have achievement. We still have to have all these things. But what the board is
clearly saying is we need to be able to go to our community and say, "Our financial house is in order. We're being good stewards of our tax dollars. And here's the evidence of that act." Okay? If the board writes the strategic plan, the board then is accountable for that,
because the board says, "That's the only way to do it, Madam Superintendent. Here's the action items. Here's the thing you have to do." And you can't hold her accountable for that, because you told her there was only one way to do it. Does that help? >> Yeah, I guess what what you're describing in terms of setting goals,
from my perspective, it feels like it's part of the strategic plan. So, I think I'm want to understand clearly what you mean by like setting goals for the superintendent without that being part of the strategic plan itself. Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. So, in my mind, and and you're right. >> Like isn't that the same thing?
>> Well, so in my mind, the the ends are goals. The strategic plan is a means. >> Interesting. >> The work, right? So, in my mind, if you build a strategic plan and then write the goals to match the plan, well, guess what? The plan's going to output
whatever you think you wrote it. >> It it and and from I don't remember what the ends were. There were like three or four end statements. And they um they were around the things that we had
buckets for. Um, five teacher retention effectiveness. Um, student growth. good. Um, I don't remember having one at my house. I don't remember what they were. But then Yeah, then then we then then the board
was involved, but it was mostly staff that then came up with the hows on on on filling all those things. Um I think that and I and I think that that and and for monitoring reports, I know exactly what you're what you're
talking about that because we had um monitoring Well, we had reports on all of those pieces uh set out of when they would be and how they would be be um reported. But in terms of we had a
You know No, do you know Do you perhaps know Jed Bowman? >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Jed was the superintendent during most of the time that I was on the board. >> I don't think I I know his I don't definitely know the name. >> Yeah, yeah. So, if yeah, we we went to
each um school at one point for a work session during you know during that school year and we got all of the data on um performance in that school. We got all the data on um
the student populations in that school and then we had conversations about what um what the challenges in that specific school was, but it was very much uh we looked at single point data
on um C-Net scores. Wasn't C-Net then, it was something different, but yeah, it was and it was very crystal clear when we got done. Are we meeting Are you meeting or you not meeting the goals what we expected of you to accomplish.
But we only had a couple of things that we expected them to accomplish. >> So, this may help. So, this is this I'm working with the La Mesa School Board here. Thanks for having me and the policy here. So, the board sets the goals and the means, right? So that's what result and what group of people and
what cost and cost is time, effort, and money. Then the superintendent is going to lead the organization with the who, the when, the way, the what, and the how much, right? So for example, which would never ever would happen with you all. You go to the Casby conference and there's a really good salesman. They
say, "I can fix your reading scores, right? Just buy our curriculum, right? That $250,000 check." District will implement that. Bang. The board comes back and says, "Madam Superintendent, call this guy, buy the curriculum, implement it, and it's going to boost the scores." Now
if it works, the board is great. If it doesn't, you can't say to the superintendent that it failed because you said that was the only way to make that happen. What the board can say is, "Madam Superintendent, we want to have the best outcome for our students at, you know, what group of students at a
cost that's commensurate with what we can afford." And then she's going to decide who I need to have, when they need to have it, what they need, the why and the how much within the parameters of the budget that you have given her. Okay? So that's kind of what we're talking
about. And it's a little academic ends and means, you know, and it kind of sounds like um economics 101, but that's really what it is. So the board gives the input, she has the process, and then she gets to bake the cake. And then the board decides is that the
cake we want? And if it didn't, then we need to have a conversation. Why did she think that that was a reasonable interpretation of what the board asked to have happen? >> I think our strategic plan maybe jumps the line back and forth a little bit.
>> Yeah. >> Um and and honestly, the reason for it is because there were so many things that needed to happen in such a short amount of time that we knew, you know, Ginger couldn't handle all of that on her own. There's just not enough hours in the day. And so trying to take
some of that. But I do at least think that our our plan or goal with the strategic plan was to set kind of those ends maybe in a more verbose way. >> I think >> But not set the how and you know, say,
"Hey, we want to improve achievement." But not specifically say, you know, what you have to do to it to improve achievement. >> really, really clear. I think there's a lot of good work that was done. I think there's really solid things there.
Right? But at the same time are you going to ask the superintendent to do 500 things right away? Or is there one thing or two things, right? And that's where the board has to be laser-focused to say, "You have so many hours in a day. We have this set of resources. Here's what
we need to have happen, right?" You still have to be aware of it that you know, the admin policies still have to be updated. The buses still have to run on time. We still have to have grilled cheese on Tuesday or whatever you want to eat. But Madam Superintendent, what we really want to hear back from you is your progress
>> Yeah. Just a couple of things. So just to clarify though, because like in our student strategic plan that we published, it's only been the part that sort of precedes the goals. And then I think our expectation was that we're going to hand it to staff to figure out the goals and come back to us or
By the way, so we just to clarify, we as the board should determine what those goals are, those ends. And then basically hand back. >> In In my opinion, yes. You can have a lot of collaboration with the superintendent though, right? >> Right. Because you don't want to set a
goal, right? >> If you say, "We want every kid to go to college." Right? Well, that's not realistic. So when you give a goal like that and the superintendent says, "Well, have a kid fill out an application."
Is that what you had in We want children that are lifelong learners, ready to join the community. But what is that? Is that military? Is that career and workforce? Uh is that going to college? Is it taking a gap year? Whatever that means.
So words are important. And so when we say those things again to the superintendent she doesn't have to define five different lines and figure out how do we do this. Uh there's a story and it thank goodness it's fairly old.
Uh but there was a a board that actually had a streaming words on each other. >> Oh. >> And so part of the board could be in one room and the other part of the board had to watch on the camera. Right? And then the superintendent legitimately would call on his cabinet
the morning after they would go through minute by minute trying to figure out what the [clears throat] heck the board wanted to do. And you just You can't The board can't govern that way. Superintendent certainly can't be successful that way and the district's successful. And I'm not saying, you know, that's kind of an
extreme case, but when the board can clearly point to mission and vision, right? Which I think they're really good at right now. Madam Superintendent, here's the things we have asked you to have. Right? And then here's that evidence that is going to come back to what that's like. Cuz the other thing I
hear sometimes is and it's usually around the end of your first term people are like, "I'm not really sure what we've accomplished." And I just And I ask, "Well, what evidence have you seen?" I don't know. Well, what have you asked for? I'm not really sure. So if the board hasn't said what we want to have
happen, asked for that evidence to come forward it's completely natural that you're going to feel like, "I'm not sure we're doing anything." >> Can I ask a question? So um I think we all done a lot of really great work on the strategic planning group.
Um I know that we have seven pillars. I started working on academic excellence with the leadership team and we made some really great progress. There were two goals in here. >> [clears throat]
>> We created what success looks like, key initiatives, and um KPIs for stabilize, which is our first what we're trying to do first is stabilize the district. And
there are two goals in here. Um this was a great collaboration of myself and the principals and our chief academic officer. It took a lot of time. I think we all felt really comfortable with it. I wrote draft on it because we I haven't
followed back up with it since our leadership and we'll probably review it again at our next retreat in July. Um we have seven pillars. We have a few goals. I don't I don't know how many goals are there in each one. I know they're all really important.
And um I know for myself as a superintendent, I have some of them ranked higher than others because I know a little bit more of like the important things I need to have done and ready to roll in August to really stabilize.
I don't know if all seven are at that level and where I feel comfortable getting the quality that I want done completely by the August board meeting. And so I guess my question is is
is like is there there a prioritized list for you or do you trust my prioritized list or is that something that we can talk about or is that a non-negotiable we're having seven to approve at the August board meeting?
>> When you say seven, you're just talking about the pillars, right? >> Those are just the areas. They're not necessarily >> But and then there are goals within that. >> The goals and KPIs and the initiatives. >> The drivers for you. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> I >> [clears throat] >> Yeah. And I still worry and I've I've shared this. I worry about seven.
Seven is a whole lot for a small team. Um and and I I I don't want our superintendent to spend all of all of their time filling in all of these pieces on on all
of these goals when they've got so many other things that they've got to get done. >> Can you clarify with the with the ends? Is this an annual thing? Cuz our strategic plan right now is formatted for three a three-year period. And that's one of the things that we've been trying to think about is sort of the sequencing of that, right? So Ginger
mentioned the three we have a three-phase planning framework, which is sort of stabilize, strengthen, and thrive. So um so are you So what from your perspective should that should the goal setting be on an annual basis for the term of the superintendent's contract? Like what
what should we be orienting our planning around? >> So in my opinion, every year the board should be. So your end statements can be a little more everything. Sometimes the board will have to So again, if you had a safety concern, right? You know, the the building is literally falling off
its foundation. The board might write make a statement, you know, right then and there and tell the superintendent, that is the number one thing, fix that. But you will still have a global ends, right? Which is a lot of times looks very similar to your mission excuse me to your vision. And then the
ends really need to be reviewed every year. So you're going to have an academic ends most likely. You'll probably have a community ends. And then you may have a financial or another ends. So you're going to look at those every year. Doesn't mean you have to change them every year, but you're going to review. And then the the communication
with the superintendent is for this year. So it's stabilization. Somebody tell me, what does that mean to you? Is that academic stabilization or what is that? >> It's across all of the seven pillars. So, like we had When we say pillars, we're looking at basically all of the different areas that we could create
goals around. So, it's like academic excellence, um like financial stability, like all of the just these a way to think about the overall health of the district, right? Like these are the sort of components of that. And so, like Ginger said is that
we have um I think we have a total right now of I would say we have in our overall big draft like 16 goals in total and they were spread across all of those seven pillars. Maybe two or three under every pillar. And then there was key initiatives and to follow with that like
KPIs. So, then the And that was a three-year strategic plan with that three- phased framework if that makes sense. >> And not every pillar had a had a stabilization phase goal. >> Right. And that's the thing is I don't
think that we don't have to say seven. Like seven is just representative of the entirety of the topics, right? Like um these are all of the components of a healthy district. We might only need to focus on however many we decide, right? So, the pillars aren't aren't the number
that we're aiming for. We don't have to have a goal for every pillar. And we don't And we have a certain There's a difference in the level of urgency, right? Depending on the pillar and sort of the phase that it's in. >> I think that's what I was saying. So, if I'm a superintendent and I look at a
strategic goal from the board that has 16 elements and I come back and, you know, just kill myself and only reach eight of them, is the board going to look at that and say, "That's not You didn't get to all of
What I think I'm saying is the board needs to be very, very clear of all of those things, what are the one, two, or three and important for this year. and Madam Superintendent, we expect to see evidence on a agreed-upon schedule, you know, quarterly, whatever.
The other part of that is it builds that relationship so that when it doesn't turn out the way we we thought it did, she can come back and say, "You know what? I really thought this was the way to go. It really isn't turning out that way, and now we need to pivot and have a conversation." You need to have that
level of comfort with each other to be able to have those hard conversations. Um the story I share, and you may have heard it, I apologize if you have, but um we invited the kids who graduated this year back, right? Said, "Hey, you've been out there for a year now.
Uh what did it mean to have a diploma from APS?" And one young man raised his hand and said, "When I graduated, you said I could read. I went to college, they said I had to take a remedial reading class. So, either you lied or the college is trying to get me to take a reading class I don't need, right?"
Talk about a gut punch, right? >> Mhm. >> But, it triggered a really good conversation to say, "Okay, when we talk about academic success, here's what we mean, and we want people to be able to do those things." So, um the the issue I generally see with strategic
plans [clears throat] that are, you know, seven pillars, they're it's just it's a lot for the superintendent. And some board member may be focused on five, and some may be might be focused on three, and you all have an excuse because you're going to
have to evaluate her on it, right? Um I worked for a very large company, and we were a sales company, and our CEO the CEO at the time, I'll I'll never forget this, said, "We've got a great plan. We've got four pillars. We're a sales organization. If
you're not helping us sell another widget every day, stop doing that. That's what we do, and that's the kind of clarity that the board should be giving the superintendent. Madam Superintendent, when walk in that door on Monday morning, it should be in your mind
I want I need to adapt to these things. And it can't be 16, in my opinion. >> Right. >> I think strategic planning is great. I'm a big strategic planning guy. I just happen to believe that it's really more of means of the superintendent than it is
But they should be aligned. Absolutely. Cuz you wouldn't want to write a strategic plan and the superintendent goes, "What?" We don't do it either, right? That doesn't make sense. >> So, and based on what Ginger said, are we Can Can we maybe let her propose the
three that she sees as the most urgent? Um in our in our meeting in August or I whatever >> I'd love that because I have really thoughtful ideas about that. Having been here through
you know, this will be my eighth school year and knowing where the gaps are, knowing what I have been and what I envision it being in the future. Again, >> And I think that that's very important. But the board also needs to be very clear.
Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. We want to hear that. We may have a different idea. But absolutely, if you're going to be successful, you have to be aligned. And that's sometimes I think where boards don't take the time to have these kind of conversations, right? We're going to have a business meeting. We're going to take votes. Fine.
This is where the work gets done. >> And I also think all the pillars are really important. >> Yeah. >> Um and we're not not focusing on all of them, but I think being very strategic on what we need to accomplish
right now, first. >> And I think the big difference for me, too, in our approach is that, again, looking at There's a big difference of looking at a three-year plan versus a one-year plan and just the focus for one year, too. So, I think that seems perfectly fair, right? To like write down the scope of that because we're not
trying to segment out our what we're accomplishing three years from now if we just wanted to focus on this year. This is and we could have a both focus approach, right? >> And I I think it also helps you with your community, right? When you go out, somebody says, "What does the board do?" And if you don't have that elevator
speech, it doesn't sound right, but that's what it is. You need to be able to say, "Oh, I'm glad you asked. We have a three-year plan. This is year one. We've asked the superintendent to do X, Y, and Z, and here's how we're using your tax dollars to do that." That's a lot better than, "Well, we have a three-year plan. We have six 60 pillars
and we figured we got 60 pillars and they're like, "What?" So, it's just that focus. Um Academy District 20 been a PG district for a long time, pretty high functioning up until recently. They have an ends around character. And they've got like 20 ends. I've always We can go
back to this but I always said, "I don't know about character, right?" And it wasn't so much that they were expecting the superintendent to build character, it's that that was a public affirmation of this board to say, "We think that's important." >> Yeah. >> So, that's what we have. So, sometimes you
do have board statements that are more aspirational or those kind of things as opposed to we expect meat and potatoes because character means a lot of different things to a lot >> Can you talk give more examples of
traditional and policy governance? Can you stay on that with us for a little bit? >> Absolutely. So, that's a question that comes up all the time. If not policy governance, what? And there are literally dozens of models out there. The Texas School Board Association, just because they're Texas,
they've got a game a lot of There's a guy named PJ Fabel who's out there. He's got a a model. What I will tell you is that traditional governance tends to look a lot like policy governance because it really has the same thing. So, a traditional model uh would be
uh the board is still has their B policies, right? Uh the board still has to have goals, still has to have uh the things they want the district to accomplish. Um You still have to have norms and agreement on how you're going to operate.
It's a little more squishy if you written that down. My feeling of BG and there's a lot of really good boards out there that are not BG. It's written down, right? It's the French, it's the rules. Uh my son, great kid.
I hated to play games with him when he was little cuz he'd start to lose and he'd be like, "That's I'm like, "Yes, dude, it's right here." It's literally the rule, right? Same thing with BG. So that the superintendent understands and also you all can be accountable to each other. You agree on the policies and, you know,
"You're a great guy, Robert. What what's going on? Why are we not doing that?" >> [laughter] >> It gets your back up because it's all written down, right? And it helps too when somebody says, "Well, you get I like you, you know, I don't like so-and-so, so I'm going to allow you to ask nine questions in a
row, but you're going to get the gavel every time, man. Just think through stuff. So that's kind of BG. Yeah. BG is just more it's more written down. It's got a structure to it. And it's got a lot of I can tell you people don't like it
generally because uh it's different. And then they also look down and say, "Well, the board doesn't ever do anything." Right? They just rubber stamp everything. I would tell you not. The board is actually doing their work cuz that's where Carver came with this. Um He felt like in the, you know, this came
out in the late '90s uh when you had Enron and Arthur Andersen. He really felt like boards were asleep and just let the executive do whatever they wanted. >> Mhm. >> And he came out and said, "No, we need to absolutely tell them what we want and all that." Well, not accountable cuz that would be but we want to know what's happening,
right? So. >> Is there a smaller book? >> So, this is, you know, this is not a bad uh this it's 118 but that's with the indices and everything. You can legitimately read this in a weekend. To answer your question, they do have
>> There >> uh there's a series of pamphlets >> Uh >> that you can get uh where it breaks it down into four quadrants so it makes it a little bit easier to read. There's some good white papers out there if you just Google John Carver policy governance. >> You could probably do a a nice AI search
and it would summarize it for you. >> Yeah. >> And then you can confirm it with the book and everything. >> But, to answer your question, me personally, I'm agnostic >> Mhm. >> on what you do. >> Thank you.
>> I just want you all to agree to it and write it down and follow it. >> One of the things that happened in my previous time is that we had a different view about policy governance and traditional governance um with the new board members
um there was a GASB um convention that some of the board members went to one that was more about traditional and came back and wanted to implement some things that were and so sometimes I
guess that's an important thing for us to think about too when we're at GASB and really understanding what the what the model that the presenter's talking about and then figuring out how that fits. >> And you bring up a great point. So,
anytime you have one new member of the board, you have a brand new board. >> Right. >> And so, prior boards are important but they're just that, >> Right. reference. It's this board that has to decide. So, if you come back and decide, you know what, PG's not for us,
we're not going to hurt not good feelings. I'm going to applaud that because you all made a decision to to at least have that conversation, right? Um same thing. As soon as you have one new board member, you should be reviewing your mission and your vision.
Does this mean the same thing to you? Does it still have this conversation? You are a brand new board. >> You can what? >> No, come >> But so, I think I think if I look at it kind of objectively the way we've been operating for the last, I
don't know how many months it's been, six months. We're again kind of somewhere in the middle where we really like having policy written down, because it does allow you to point to something and say we're doing it because it's written right here that this is what we do.
And then there are times where we're kind of stepping into the other side because of of a need or an emergency or you know, the lack of resources that, you know, traditionally we would love to say, "Hey, admin, you can handle all of
this." But just because of how many people we have on staff, you know, that that that's not necessarily an option right now. So, with that kind of framework, does it Like I don't necessarily want to throw
away a PG plan just because right now we're having to step into this other space every once in a while to kind of fill a gap and and say we're not a PG board. But I'm curious what what your thoughts are on that. >> Yeah. Um
I think what Carvel would say is you're you're always going to get some benefit from PG, but it's like trying to put a really big motor in a little car. It might go marginally faster, but it's never going to be as good as if you put that motor in the car it was built for.
And so, my question would always be and I I think I know the answer to some extent, but why did the board feel the need to step into that? And if you've got a really clear reason and it makes sense, great. If you don't, that's when you need to come back and look at that and say,
"Gosh, did we just cross the line in what our policy?" Because at the end of the day, your policies are adopted and they're available to the public and that's how you said you're going to operate. And so, if you're not operating that, it would be appropriate for the community to say, "Well, wait a minute. I'm not
really sure here. It says this in the policy book, but the board's over here. What you know." So, two things. The board can rewrite any policy that they want to anytime. You could pass a new policy and just say, "Well, sorry. Here's what we're doing." Two,
you need to be self-evaluating self-evaluating yourselves. Are we having efficient meetings? Are we talking about student success? Are we policy or following our policies? Are we wearing out staff? You know, one of the things is
when you meet Well, one of the first indicators there's an issue is I always ask people, "How long are your meetings?" And they go, "Yeah, we're here quite a while. You know, a while." And I'm always like, "Why? What on the agenda has to be there? Or why do you feel it's so Cuz what I
will say is you all still have to get up in the morning and you go to work or whatever. Staff has to come back regardless. The school doors are going to open, right? So, if the superintendent's here till midnight, she gets that call at 4:30 in the morning from the transportation director going, "Hey, we're calling a snow day." Right? Um
that's not fair to staff, either, right? Uh and it's not fair to folks in the community as well, right? If I'm really interested in the the work, but I have to be expected to be awake at 11:00 at night to to watch what they're doing. That's not my job, you know. So
It's got to be a balance. >> You know, I think I think Matt, one of the one of the issues that we have here is there really has been a lot of chaos in the last couple of years. >> 100%. >> Um and we all are so aware of that.
Um and and that was that was a piece of all of us in terms of of wanting to be on the board. And there are some incredibly gifted board members here. >> Yeah. >> Um and it's really
hard not to want to come in and share what your gifting is with the person that does that, you know, that role. Um and and I think and it's all it's all out of out of good heart, but I think
sometimes it it it it still feels like we're still a little bit in the chaos of it. Um and we have and this board has served we say so many times. The way I explained to the community is we have we have we have we're playing a basketball game. We got four people on the court.
And we sit here and we watch, you know, the the work, the amount of work that everybody is doing and they are working so hard. And out of our hearts, our desire is to jump in and help and see if we can't
relieve some of that burden. And then and yeah, me included. And then what I worry happens is out of the goodness of our heart, we've actually created more work. Um which can happen. It's like I don't
know. Sorry, Rob. This this illustration might not work for you. >> [laughter] >> But it's like when you have somebody at your house and they want to they want to help you fix dinner. >> Mhm. >> And and but they but every but they have have to ask a question about every
single thing that you give them, you know, something to do, then it would have taken far less time to just make the dinner yourself. You know what I mean? And so I I I worry
that we've kind of gotten into that a little bit. Um again, me included. Um and I and I don't and I think that anyway, I think that that's one of the things that as a board
we need to talk about and think about. And there are policies around that already. >> you've got policy now that says we're not going to do this. >> Right, we do. And I think, you know, I I don't know, maybe because I was this is just such a different situation for me.
Our our the way our policy is set is that we review policies on a monthly basis. And it's it was traditionally done in the work session where we talk about do we want to change it or more importantly, are we complying?
Are we doing what this policy says? Um we're doing, but that means that it might be a whole year before we get I almost wonder if and and this is I guess a question I would have, would it be wise for us to take part of a board retreat
um um in the early fall to really dig into those policies and what they actually mean, you know, and I mean, one example and this is where I I have failed and I don't know which policy it is, but there's a policy in there about
if you want some information, you go through the board president and the board president approaches the superintendent for that information. And And it's not to keep It's not to keep the other board members from
getting information. It's It's to keep the superintendent from being inundated with, you know, questions and, you know, five of us asking for different things and I
you know, I just I and and I feel like we've rushed in with We've talked about our, you know, if we were if we were doing red, yellow, and green, we feel red right now everywhere. And so, we all are in this >> [clears throat]
>> Let's get this done. So, I guess what would your advice And I maybe I maybe maybe that's not how other people feel like the situation is. But that's from from being on being on a board before and being on a board now, I feel like we
like we're we're >> So, there was a lot there. >> [laughter] >> It's going to affect you. No, I appreciate it. It's all good stuff. I'll unpack a couple things. What I would say is completely appropriate for this board to acknowledge you've got your stuff together.
And that you are in the process of rebuilding with community, with staff, with yourselves as board. It's completely appropriate. Also completely appropriate to set aside some time to do that, right? Sometimes you you you feel like we've got to go to a meeting, we've got to vote, we've got
to vote, we've got to you know, we just have these And it's you got to go slow to go fast, right? So, it's better for the board to take some time to step back and say, "Okay, here's our policies. What does this mean?" And the superintendent Now that you we
officially have you, you know, those kind of thing have those conversations. Second thing is one of the reasons I love board members is that you all have a heart for service, right? But you're 100% right. If the superintendent has to look at five different opinions, five different
things and try and define what direction she's going to go, crazy. Better for the board to say, this is what we all say. Um the the the other thing I'll say is that we should never substitute our expertise
as individual board members for the whole board, right? So if I've been in corporate HR for 30 years and if the board will just turn over the HR policy, I'll get it fixed, right? We would never want to do that, right? Um I had a board member, great guy, retired doctor, he wanted to sit
down with the CFO and go through the checkbook once a month. I was like, Dr. Lord, what do you Why? Why is that important? And we were in a good situation, we had a great CFO and he's like, it doesn't bother me if he wants to come and sit in my office. So we we we said that was all right.
The third uh fourth thing is really you have to have some flare, clear uh delineation for staff. Some superintendents don't mind you talking to staff and business as long as they are aware. Some of them really do want everything to come through the board president so
that everybody uh is following the same process. So again, that's the conversation you all have to be have to have. But remember, just cuz you said it, unless the whole board has said it and voted on it, it doesn't have any impact on her. So you can go walk in and say,
fire the football coach, right? That's great if one board member said that. Not a word, you know. Now if every board member raises it, well something's going on there, good superintendent's going to say, okay board, what's going on? Last thing I would say is that um
it's really tempting to try and fix everything at once, right? And if everything's red, you just whip out the hose and you're going to put it all out, right? So that's really where I would say again, the board wants to slow down and just a little bit. What is [clears throat] really the one thing or maybe the two things we have to
get done through the '26-'27 school year? Madam Superintendent, what do you think it is? Right? And then go from there. And again, that's just that's kind of best practices, what I've seen work. It's just, you know, again
if all you got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, right? You know, you just whack it, you know. If you got a toolbox, then you can really expand that. So, right the right thing for the right with thoughts.
>> Guys, I want to clarify something. So, I feel like when we're using the policy governance, I know that we have some really huge things we're working on that we do need support from the board. And so, it's
okay if there's a understanding across all of us that that is something that we need want support on even though we're following policy governance for the majority. >> So, cuz technically we should write that into somewhere.
>> See if that's the something we're doing, right? So, that at least we're all still following policy like we'll operate this way unless we are asked to do extra and have the ability to be supported. >> So, in your policies currently, there's
language that says the superintendent or the board won't let the superintendent operate without direction. And then there's language that the superintendent when she feels like she needs more guidance from the board, will come to the board and say
>> Yeah. >> So, that's probably in policy currently. Um the other thing is I meant to bring this up. Sometimes people say, "Well, we're a board, so we can't review that till next year." That's nonsense. If you got an issue that comes up, we're going to review that right away. Man, if
superintendent has kind of came out of the blue, please be prepared to talk about the finances the next board meeting. We want to have the CFO, right? And then more importantly, you know, if it's a quarterly financial thing, if it's
twice a year, if it's whatever it is, whatever the board needs to be informed, as long as you can make a case why that's important, why we need it, the superintendent's going to provide it for you. So, um and I know we talk about small staffs. I
have never really seen PG be a burden. Um unless the board chooses to do that. I've seen some boards that are like, "Well, you're not compliant with whatever." And I'm like, "That's not what we're talking about, right?" So. >> Yeah. >> And then the last thing I'll just say, the sharing of information, you do have
a policy um that if the information is readily available, the full board gets it. If in the superintendent's opinion it would take a a significant amount of time and effort um
or staff time to produce that, she will go in your policy, it's back to the board president, and you ask the board. If the whole board says yes, superintendent's going to produce it, even if it takes staff resources to do that. But, maybe the board has a different way to look at that, right? So, maybe you
don't need every third grade reading score for the last 20 years. Maybe what you need is a disaggregated chart with an executive summary. But, everybody should get the same information at the same time. Cuz the board president, by law,
she is one of five or seven, and only has additional duties that you all grant her from policy. Right? So. Really good in conversation. Thanks for having me. Um a little quick uh uh uh uh efficient board meetings. The consent agenda we
talked about, right? I'm also a big fan of time limits. So, if you want a presentation from the the CAO, you've got Did I get your title right? >> No. >> No. >> [laughter] >> You want me to CAO?
>> No. >> School principal. >> No. CCO. >> That's what I heard CCO. >> I apologize. >> Um 20 minutes and uh it's a little weird at first because people are like, "Well, we we always get
an hour with the board." I'm like, "That should be the same." Um and if you can tie it to a specific policy, that really helps as well. If you can specifically say the reason we want to hear about this is since related to policy there. Uh that's a good way to do it. Um
I don't know if you all do board reports. >> Mhm. >> I'm not a huge fan of board reports per se. Um I think when used smartly, they can be helpful. But what I see a lot of times is they kind of turn into a club.
You know, "Carey, I went to 34 events last month. I didn't see you." >> [laughter] >> It can be into that. So, I would encourage you to have some kind of a vehicle for communication from the board. Um you know, we were lucky enough to the local newspaper gave us the back page of
the newspaper once a month. And that was our board report. Um emails, uh those kind of things, right? Um and board reports can be great like to share success stories and what not, but they can be really long or sometimes too when people just go on and on.
Um and then the agenda, is it unnecessarily long? Does it include a lot of busy work, right? Does it have to be on the agenda? Does the board have to do that? Right? Um the other thing I I will say, and this is one that we we I encourage you all to
kind of to do self-evaluation. At the end of your board meeting, just have somebody, you know, be the monitor for that meeting. And then ask yourself those three questions. Did we hear information tonight that requires revision of our policies? Okay? Is it requires a new policy? Or is it
something we'd like to explore on a future agenda? And then just make those notes, cuz that helps build the agenda for next time, right? Oh, yeah, our policy really is out of compliance. Um you know, maybe we need to do, to your point, on that president or on communications or whatever it is. And
it's just a simple way to keep that governance piece for us. >> I'm thinking through all of our six-hour board meetings. It's like you went through things. I probably could have limited some of the conversation a bit.
>> I think there was a time like this year with the board transition and building trust in the community to share so much, but I think going forward a more efficient agenda would be great. >> Yes.
>> I'm sorry. [laughter] >> Well, there are going to be times, you know, whatever reason stuff pops up and you do have but generally, what I have seen is the sweet spot is at two and a half hours. Um
we had our rules, we got to 9:00, we take a vote of the board, do we want to go another half hour? And then unless there was a really good reason, uh that we couldn't wrap up in the last half hour, we tabled it and moved on. And again, there were times where you
have we're going to be here. I don't know if you all do it, um but I was talking to one of the biggest school boards in the state, they don't have dinner before the meeting. I'm like, you come right from your job and go right into the meeting and I'm like,
that's insane. You know. >> How would they do it? They push the meeting up? >> No, they just they just become go into their workshop and go right in there and and then they'd be there till 10:00 or 11:00. >> Oh, no. That part I understand. That's what That's what I think we are doing. How do you not do that? [laughter]
>> I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if they packed a sandwich or if they bought a power bar, I don't know. So. Um okay, the board of superintendent team. This is really, I think, the crux of what we're doing. And looking at this in the new colors, I
really don't see that at all. But, um >> This is my husband and I will not be able to read that at all. >> I know. Yeah, I just realized that green on green. So, uh and red. But, really, uh the board is the the mission, the vision, community link. The community link is a huge part here. Carver would say that the board
specifically has to set aside time to go out and meet with the community and say, "Here's what the board is thinking. What do you think?" Right? Um just a couple of words on that. A a town hall meeting is not a great community engagement, in my opinion, because it's either the
board has made a decision and we want everybody to say, "Hey, great decision." And they rarely do. Or, it's open mic night. They get their 3 minutes to grind whatever they got to say. So, we're talking about small groups, focus groups, um really expanding who you go out and talk to. You know, we're
not just going to talk to the boosters or PTO or PTA or the honor society. We're going to go find those people that wouldn't normally talk to the board, okay? >> [clears throat] >> And engage them. Um in Colorado, 80% of our state doesn't have a direct connection to K-12.
So, they don't have kids, no nieces, nephews, grandkids. How we engage them, you know? My mom's in assisted living place. She's 93 years old. The school uh I brought over the choir and they did you know, just a simple thing, right? Great way to
engage with the community. Uh and then the the superintendent is the who, the what, the when, the how much, right? But it's unified right there in the middle. And where it gets weird is if the board hasn't fed those things on the other side and the superintendent's got to divine
and make sure the evaluations really are. One of the powerful things around PG in my opinion is the superintendent's evaluation. Cuz you rarely clearly said here's what we want you to accomplish. She's going to bring you that evidence and then it's up to the board to say, yep, that was a reasonable
interpretation. So, we asked you to do 10 things, you did eight of them, that's pretty good. So. >> And I while we're on that topic, I think you've probably looked through our policies as written. We have executive expectations.
And I know you touched on that the last time we we had a meeting about how I think maybe odd was the word you might have used that that um set up. Is I don't know if you have if you were planning on covering that at all, but I
would be curious to explore that a little bit. >> If And if you want the why, I can tell you when that switched. >> Yeah, please share. >> And and the why. It um after the sales tax was passed, the next task that the board took on
were the policy board superintendent relationship and the um um executive limitations. Um one of the board members was an executive coach. And one board member really advocated
strongly for a positive language rather than a negative language. Um and that was why the board swapped it rather than saying, you know, here's the low bar. You must not do these things.
It got switched to So, that that's the reason. I'm not I'm not I wasn't that executive coach. >> [laughter] >> That's not me. But, um that's that's that's where it came from. >> It is a little strange in that the the executive limitations are really that's
what they are. >> standard >> Don't do these things even if it accomplishes what the board asked you to do. The expectations would be in the ends, right? So, if we got expec- expectations for the executive and vis-a-vis the district, that's where that would be stated. That's the only
reason it looks a little odd. Um and Harford used to have this weird double negative language. The superintendent shall not allow that happen, right? And we've gone to a more affirmative now. The superintendent will not operate without policies for personnel or treatment of
staff, those kinds of So, um I I could see the where that is. But, if you did decide to stick with PG, um I would ask or encourage you um we've got a core manual >> Mhm. >> on PG stuff and just
go through and look at that and see what you think. >> Maybe switch it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But, if it works for you, I it's it's a name. I mean, I will tell you nobody really does PG strictly in an academic sense. There's always a legal or local flavor to it. That's what I'm talking about.
Um before we jump into the next, you guys have been going for about 3 hours. You need a quick break, stretch your legs, use the restroom. >> to use the restroom. >> [laughter] >> Do you need a break? Do you want to keep going? >> We have a lot of endurance. >> Yeah, we do. >> The bathroom or anything?
>> Do you need a break? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We need a break. >> There are sandwiches. The bread might be dry. >> [laughter] >> Legs are very tired. >> Your legs are tired? >> Yeah. I guess they've been
not moving the last 3 hours and sleeping. hit a new elevation >> [snorts] >> I don't like going fast. Yeah. >> come up and do that. I have some examples of ends.
So, this is the Lubbock ISD and they haven't moved Fiji yet, but I did a workshop with them. So, this is their global ends. This would be, you know, probably aligned to more of the vision as opposed to mission. So, and you can read there.
Prepared to to thrive and adapt to and lead in their future as lifelong learners, productive citizens, self-directed leaders at a cost and quality consistent with available district resources. And basically what the board is saying is here's the things we want to happen. We want it to happen on behalf of our
students. Uh and um if these are the results, and then this is the the cost. Uh the thing I highlight for people is when you go to evaluate these, what is a lifelong learner, right? The board needs to have that conversation so that when the superintendent brings back
evidence, the board says, "Yeah, that's reasonable." Productive citizens. There's a lot in there, right? Uh self-directed leaders. So, and these were just kind of straw men that I gave them to look from. Uh this is kind of a a an ends one, uh demonstrate mastery of
academic content and the critical thinking skills necessary to pursue their chosen path after graduation. Again, lots of things. What does mastery mean? Does it mean mastery on the time third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, or does it mean when they're all completely done their
education, they've mastered it, right? Um critical thinking, that's a huge one. And then chosen path after graduation. Uh other things could go in there, so. Um A safe, supportive school environment in which they develop social emotional
skills, health literacy, and personal literacy needed to become productive citizens. Again, what is a safe, supportive school? Is that physically safe, emotionally safe? What does that mean? Uh the board will want to have some good conversations, and that's what gave them a lot of uh options. Families and community members will be there informed, engaged
partners in student success. Again, just some of the example. And then Carver gives you something a little more academic, so. Let's see. The California Parks and Recreation Society exists for the success of its members at dues no greater than
comparable associations. Pretty straightforward. Um you know, gives you an idea on some of what that is. And again, your ends don't necessarily have to change every year. They may.
And the board can change it at any time, too, if there's something that comes up. Or if you say, "Yeah, we need new direction. We need new ends." So. All right. Any questions on any of the other stuff we Any we discussed so far?
>> I think we're going to be done with it early. I hope they Nobody's mad about that. >> [laughter] >> All right. I got a question as to do that. >> Mhm. >> We've been using these terms and I was trying to just figure it out. I think the page we're looking at the difference between
EG and traditional governance and policy governance. What are the definitions for each of those? >> No. So, traditional governance, I think is what you would probably think of when you go to a town council meeting or county commissioners
meeting. You know, they present an agenda, they vote on some things, there may be some discussions, there may be presentations. Um kind of that, you know. District's done it this way for 20 years. PG is very similar, except for
it's a written framework that everybody agrees to on how we're going to operate. Right? So, uh and traditional governance can be written down, although a lot of times it's not. It's just kind of anecdotal, "We've always done it that way." kind of stuff. Um So,
again, I'm agnostic to however you do it, but write down the rules, write down the norms, write down the engagement, you know, make the affirmation of policy, whatever whatever it is. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. That's a great question.
>> Um and I'm trying to remember how how it was described to me, but we we govern through our policies. And um if there's um let's say
we're concerned about Well, let's just say let's just say finances. And right now it's a if it's 10,000 or over you have to come to the board. If we if we're concerned that our
superintendent is not maybe handling finance correctly, we don't just jump in on her. We adjust the policy. And we say, "No, we want you to come to us if it's more than 5,000." Or you know
what I mean? And that's a that may be the worst example. That was the one I could think of where we we really are about more about policy in the things that we make decisions about and how we make the decisions.
>> So, in general David, can you help me? What's the district budget? If you just you know kind of general fund and about 20 million? >> 18 million for general probably. >> Okay. So, within the 20 20 million let's just call it 20 so we have round
figures. Um Denver Public Schools is a big G board although I don't know if they're up there or not or because they do a lot of different things. Um their budget is about 2 billion dollars. And the superintendent has latitude up
to 500,000 dollars. >> Right. >> So, that would not be appropriate in the 20 million dollar budget. >> Right. >> But the average, you know, the district has to buy a new Suburban. Mhm. That's 100,000 dollars, right? >> Right. >> So, I think what the board is trying to
do is say what's that number that is appropriate outside of the normal budget. >> Right. >> Okay. So, in a normal budget year, Madam Superintendent, you have $20 million and what you do with that in between with certain restrictions
to achieve what the board has had is fine. If there's something outside of that that you didn't account for and now we need the board wants to know about that. And some boards also will have a policy that say even a budgeted expense above a certain level, they just didn't need to
inform the board. >> Yeah. >> It was we're buying new textbooks and I thought it was 50,000 it's going to be 100,000. >> And that that was really just my example. But what I meant was rather that that if we get concerned about
some if the things are being done correctly, we tighten we we tighten the reins in the policy. Yeah. Instead of that rather than just start to start to Am I making any sense?
>> You are. >> Okay, thanks. >> Yeah, I know. >> [laughter] >> I have to say kids, two things. There may be a policy adjustment, but it really may be directly to the superintendent. Madam Superintendent, I need this the board needs to see the reconciled audit every
month. Cuz we're just not sure. There's a school district not too far from here that I just found out and hasn't had an audit in 5 years. >> What? >> Yeah, which I just
>> You're doing great. >> [laughter] >> Part of that is a lot of things I had to do really really hard and there's not a lot of firms that do school audits anymore. They just said it's too much work and it's not enough enough juice for the squeeze. Um but they also have not reconciled their bank statements since the beginning of the
school year. And they've got a new superintendent and the superintendent was like, what? You know, um that would be a case where the board would clearly without a policy just Madam Superintendent, here's what you need to do, and the board is telling you. Uh if you've been around a long time,
you remember the St. Vrain School District, uh where they literally were taken over by the state of Colorado. The state treasurer became the receiver for that district because the superintendent some other things, they were bankrupt.
So, yes. So, sometimes it's policy, sometimes it's more direct. And the other thing is with policy governance What do you governance? The board can ask for that anytime. It There may be a schedule, but you don't need to wait for that schedule, especially if it's exigent right now.
So. >> What's that What Um can you clarify a little bit, too, of the difference between a resolution and a policy? Cuz there have been things in the past that the board has done by resolution, but then I'm like, okay, what does that even mean? Is it just Like if it's not really formalized in policy, then it doesn't
really have any weight? One of my Maybe? >> favorite topics. And this is one of the reasons I don't like Denver. I can tell them if they were here. I have They have a tradition of resolution. So, two, maybe 3 years ago, there was a student group put in a lot of effort,
brought a resolution to the board around climate stuff, and the board passed it, the kids celebrated, and then they came back 2 years later and said, "Hey, what's happened to this?" And nobody knew cuz you said it wasn't official, nobody was tracking. So, there are, you know, kind of
proclamations of the board. We support school nurses week, right? That's one thing. A resolution sometimes in law, that you'll they see law that says uh the board will pass a resolution, but they really mean is the board will affirm that policy adoption, right? So, you all
have to have, for example, a policy related to cell phones by July 1. Even though you've had an electronic device policy since 2000. Mhm. This legislature felt like they needed to to make it Um So, that might be an example. I think
that one actually does say board policy, but it doesn't actually say the board's mission. The >> But, the resolution is really a mechanism to approve policy. It It's not a replacement for policy. >> It's not. And yeah, you hit it on the head. And And And if you don't track it
and and don't tie it to something, it just goes in file 13 and nobody ever knows what happened. >> Rest in peace. Okay. >> Yeah, I'm not a big fan of resolutions unless they're like the you know, state baseball champions or something like that or uh school nurse week, something like
that. But, if you're trying to implement policy through reso- resolution, it's what Carol was saying. Change the policy. >> And not every single vote has to have a corresponding resolution, or does it? >> Interesting. >> But, a resolution could it maybe right here in our own
here could be like, "Okay, we don't have a policy on this right now. Maybe it wasn't one of the initial goals we set for the superintendent, but we're having a conversation and we as a board resolve that this is a new direction we want to give to the superintendent for her to
execute upon." So, you would you could write that that would be an appropriate use of a resolution. >> It could be, but I I really think what you would instead say is new policy XYZ or sub of an existing policy would be what
>> So, still tied to policy then, right? >> Yeah. >> It's a better >> policy. It's it's a big It stays in your record though if you make a policy. >> Yeah. >> And then it's something that you we go back to and it's like, "Did we do this? Did we not do this?" Or in that
situation, you can do a new Ns. >> Well, that yeah, that's kind of right. >> You could. >> But, with [clears throat] an N statement or like would you use a resolution to create a new N statement? >> No, Or just create it as an agenda item. >> Madam President, I make a motion that
the board begin discussion on the new ends XYZ. Madam Superintendent, I'm not sure. Yeah, the motion and second thing you're saying like that. >> Okay. So, you don't really need resolutions.
>> Not really. Um like I said, sometimes in law, there is some law out there that will say a board resolution, but that what they really mean is a board policy. So, board action. I'm not a lawyer. So, I'll always refer you to to lawyers.
Policy. Um Carver talks about policy should be as broad as it's needed to get what the board wants and then go down. Cuz sometimes when we audit stuff, we'll look at a policy and we're like, why is this 12 layers and really, really specific? And it's one of two things. Either there
was a reason, right? Or it was in there and nobody ever thought to come back and and reevaluate it and revise it and take it out. So, it's just been there. The oldest policy we found one time was 1954. That the board had literally never
looked at that policy. Really. So, but it was still a legal policy. >> We had re-looked at one couple of months ago that we changed. >> Oh, yeah. >> It required >> hand delivery >> letter >> notification
>> We're like, >> of a special board meeting. >> Yeah. >> Something like that. >> Oh. >> We're like, we don't do that. >> Have that attached for >> Okay. >> And you run into that sometimes because I don't know if you all still get hand you know, paper packets or if it's electronic now. But some boards are
still in their agenda, the board packet will be delivered to the board member by and it was literally I mean, that's how I operate. >> Delivered, yeah. >> Yeah, so. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Pretty much >> We did that at that one. We're like, we you don't need courier and just drop it
to my house. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, and you know, electronically now we have Casby partners with a group called Boardbook. They'll offer you really good you can do board docs it's a little more expensive
but you know, the electronic stuff is pretty good so. All right, so what just briefly talk about laying and we've talked about most of those. These are the norms that I really encourage you to bare minimum to have right? How do you want to work with superintendent? How will the information
be shared? How are we going to hold how the superintendent will be held accountable for the work how will the board board hold itself accountable? Chain of command and then community linkage so Some people do this in a number of ways. You can have a norms agreement. You can have Boardbook that has a lot of this in
it. You can have specific policy that that drives this and you guys have a little We do. You got a little bit of everything seemed like to me when I was looking at the information that's shared is a big one. And if the board feels like and I'm not saying in a person this issue but if if
the board were ever to feel like the board president was a gatekeeper you'd want to revise that policy just saying you know, we don't want it all going through the board president. Although that generally is a good decent way to do that.
>> So what do you Can you clarify what you mean by that in terms of information be shared? Is that like from the superintendent to the board from the board to the superintendent? >> Yeah. Or other >> types of things from >> So if a member of the board asks for information and it's readily available the
superintendent just shares it with everybody. And that's currently what your policy says. And then if it in the opinion of the superintendent had a you know, it take a long time to to produce, or really expensive, then they ask the full board. If full board says,
"Yeah, we want it." the board still gets it. But, that's generally how it goes. The one that comes up sometimes is like emergency stuff, right? When does the board want a phone call? When do they want a text? When do they want an email? When is the Friday memo
just okay? So, if you have the sheriff is at the school and somebody drives by and says, "Why is the sheriff there?" You want the superintendent, "Hey, sheriff was at school today. Call me, right? Call me. Don't text me." and I'll tell you what's going on.
Two kids get in a fight and there's a bloody nose. Can that wait until the next board meeting or the Friday memo? Those are the levels that you all have to decide where that information. She gets a letter from CDE that says, "Hey, your accounts are out of balance. We're going to take
Probably the board needs to know right away, but you all have to suss that out. So, that's what we're looking at. >> And that should be all be captured and maybe not these specific examples, but like levels should be captured in that >> I would strongly encourage you to do
that. >> Because again, if it's not written down and then it doesn't happen and people's like, "Well, Uh chain of command. Um I brought copies. I think some of you who came to our conference received
these, but I brought copies and I have cannabis. Um we have a bulletin on the back that we call call it a chain of command >> You have one more. Oh, yeah, I brought these. Yeah, I brought these ones. The rest of us went
to Kathy. >> Oh, good. So, I have to hold them back. >> [laughter] >> We'll take we'll take these back. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, no, you can Yeah, you can keep these. Um chain of command. So, you're at the Starbucks or at the grocery store and the person comes up to
you and says, "I really have a problem with the great teacher and the board board members being board members to want to be helped." Oh, let me look into that for you. Really hard because what you have now done is told the community, "When I have an issue, I'm going to come
to you and you're going to get it fixed." The better question is, "Did you talk to the the teacher? Have you spoken to the principal? Have you spoken to the superintendent?" If you have gone up all those levels and still don't feel like your issue's been addressed or you're not getting what you need, come back to me and I will raise
it to the full board. Helps you do a couple of things. In Colorado, if I'm an employee of a school district who's non-probationary, I have a property right to my job. So, if I come to you and say, "Madam President, they're going to suspend me and it's not fair." And you
go, "Oh my gosh." And then, you know, you've now inserted yourself into a process that if it goes all the way through, would come back to the board for final adjudication. And at that vote, you have to raise your hand and say, "I drew accused myself because I inserted myself inappropriately in that situation."
Anything with children, certainly with sexual or of a narcotics, any kind of criminal stuff, it's My kind of general response is, "You have legal rights. I want to protect those. The school district has a legal responsibility and I want to protect
that. I can't have this conversation You need to speak to your lawyer or the superintendent or district counsel. That's a good way to do it, right?" Like I said, certainly anything of a sexual nature, somebody comes and says, "I know there's a pedophile working at
the school." You have to be really really careful with that. So, again, have those pieces there. And then that community linkage, so I'm not saying the board should go out every month, but maybe a couple times a year. And we're going to do a big policy
change. Are you all for a day school week? No. That would be a great one. So, the board decides we're going to go to a four-day school week, right? You're not just going to say, "Hey, when you report back to school in August, it's don't come on Monday cuz we won't be here, right?" >> [laughter] >> The board will go out to the community
and have those conversations. "Hey, here's what the board's thinking and here's why." And then have that conversation and it's really the board listening more and staff is going to help you facilitate. We don't expect you to to do that. And then bring that information back,
have that conversation, and then whatever decision you make, close the loop and go back to those folks. "Hey, appreciate you coming in and having a piece of pizza with us and having a conversation. Here's what we did with your data and the decision." And that helps a lot, right?
And so, those are kind of pieces. Students are a great group to talk to occasionally. Those people who aren't normally engaged in the community is another good one. Um every social group, you know, Rotary or
Kiwanis, they all have meetings, always looking for speakers. That's a great way to engage with the community. Typically, we go out when we want we want we want something. "Hey, help us pass a bond, right?" And so, that helps build that that cadre
of folks that when you do need that that group of folks to help you. Um the story I share is there's a school district up in the mountains and I was talking to them their PT board. I said, "What would that look like?" And they're like, "Well, the brewery's kind of like our community center. We could have beers with the board." And I'm
like, "You can't have beers with the board. That's you know, have a coffee shop or you know, we could do something like that." So, but again, just write this stuff down, have these norms and agreements and what that looks like. >> Do you >> Sorry. >> [laughter]
>> Yeah, yeah. >> Do you This is why our meetings go really long. Do you have recommendations when we're talking about like community language and we've had quite a few community meetings where we invite them in and just kind of discussed various issues we're having in and possible steps
forward but I'm going to work under the assumption that at some point we're going to be beyond those kind of initial issues we've been addressing here and and get to a point where it's more business as usual.
Do you have like to make sure you continue those connections and keep them engaged because we do have an older population who do not have students in the school district and the types of things that are helpful to share with them because I mean if we go and we're
like here are the policies for your review like they're probably not going to care but just like what if you have experience with that that would be helpful. >> Yeah, you know I I think it could be a lot of different things. I mentioned you know the people coming to my offices is good.
Again, those kind of celebration things here's the things we really are doing well. Celebrations at board meetings are a great you know thing to do. I mean if you want to fill your room invite the third grade choir. >> Is that We do that. Yeah, we have them at every board meeting. >> We have somebody at every
>> Those are awesome. You know, they don't sing rap or maybe they don't sing the kids song which is awesome. You know, I would imagine you all are small enough that you could be >> [clears throat] >> you know you could visit every building. When I was on the board we couldn't. We
had like 50 something buildings and we would divide it up and there was an expectation that the board leadership building leadership would invite the board a couple times a year to a specific thing. The other one you don't collectively bargain.
>> No. >> So, the other one that can be helpful is that employee group. We do collectively bargain, but once or twice a year we would sit down with the their executive team, the board, and cabinet. We have ground rules, right? We're not going to talk about money.
We're not going to talk about benefits. And just have a conversation. Because a lot of times board members will say, "Well, I I just get the dog and pony show when the superintendent takes us to school." And I'm like, "I know a lot of educators. They don't have a filter. They say pretty awful things. They'll tell you whatever is on their mind
generally." I don't So, when I hear that I'm like, I don't know what it's like, but it's nice to just sit down and and you know, they've I'm sure they got some kind of an executive group or something. Um but those are examples of things you might share or groups you might want to talk to.
Good question. And every community is going to be different. You're going to know it better than I. >> What's your So, one of the things that um I'd love to hear your thoughts on is like the um how to communicate with like how to handle community inquiries. So, like,
you know, the board the board gets an email, right? From a community member. And I think our like our current modus operandi is that like our president will respond. I don't know if that's always practical or if that's best practice or if there's a better way to do that, but like a lot of times it's hard like it's
you can't have any conversation about it, right? So, it's not like, "How do we want to respond to this person?" And maybe that's not always necessary. Sometimes it's just a simple question. But if you get a if you get a question on a complex or a loaded topic, then the it's really I just would care be curious to know your perspective on how to
approach that. >> I wish I had a better answer. I've seen a lot of different things. Some boards have a specific email, and then they rotate through and each board member responds to every which is really hard. And then everybody gets CC'd on it. But
I've seen that take hours literally for board members to do that. Uh sometimes they just do a canned response, "Thank you for your email. It was received." I don't know if that's very helpful. Um I don't have I don't have a good answer
for you. >> Yeah. >> Uh because once you open that engagement >> Oh. >> Okay, so that's good. >> Right, we always say like send us an email, but then that's hard. >> so we also get often and then again this is why some of our board meetings have run a
little long is because um we try and address some of those issues or themes that we see. Like if we receive several emails on a particular topic, you know, we will often add that to the agenda for the next meeting so that we can have
that conversation around the topic as opposed to sending one email or one person sending it, right? It's a fully engaged conversation, which sometimes makes the meetings a little bit longer. Um so I don't know if that is an advisable way to handle that.
>> You know, um I I guess it would matter a bit on the severity of the >> Yeah. >> You know, if somebody says, "Hey, I know for a fact that so-and-so's investment money." >> Right, yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. The one that pops up a lot, "My kid is
not treated fairly. My kid's being discriminated against." That's where I really think you have to refer you to the superintendent and ask the superintendent, "Can you come back and tell us what we're allowed to know about that?" >> Mhm. >> Um and that's hard for board members cuz they're like, "Well, I was elected. I'm on the board. I should know everything."
And I'm like, >> Mhm. >> you really shouldn't. You know, there may come a time where you know everything. >> Yeah. >> But you don't want to be that one that raises their hand at the expulsion hearing and says, "Yeah, I talked to so-and-so's mom." I can't vote.
>> Yeah, cuz that was told to >> It makes you feel Can I just say a quick thing abstentions, too? You really can't abstain. I hear people say that, "I'll just abstain." I'm like, "No, you really can't." Either there's a clear-cut conflict of interest, right? If it's a
vote about propane and Uncle Bob owns the propane company, that's one thing. But, it's a difficult vote, I don't want to do that. You can't. And you really can't. Like people say, "Well, I don't want to vote right now. Can you everybody pass
and come back and eat?" But, you can't. Do that at a meeting. But, that's good to just know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Can you be in get, you know, it's hard. It's really hard. And it only and and it because it's so easy to fire off an
email, right? People like, "Ah, I really hate this." And then send it. A lot of times they just want to vent. Um all right. Uh if the board has not spoken to be a policy, then the board has not spoken. We've talked about this uh number of occasions. It's okay to have a
split vote. It is. And it's it's okay to have a lot of really good conversation and debate. What is not okay is to let that paralyze you from taking action, right? At some point, when the president feels confident that all the conversation has
been had, all the questions have been asked, all the information They give you the apple for a reason. >> I think so. >> I used to like banging the gavel. Some people don't like to bang the gavel, >> [laughter] >> but um you know, that's your job to keep the meeting going, keep it okay. You shouldn't keep it. And the other thing is,
if you know you have questions, ask them in ahead of time. So, if you really are concerned about an agenda, I'm matter of president, [clears throat] superintendent, can I be aware I'm going to ask this question? Because then it prepares her and the staff to be able to answer your question, right? We don't want to do
gotchas. Because you still didn't give the information you needed. They feel like they got side, you know, they got ambushed. Uh it just doesn't happen. And so those kind of things. Um the board president, as I said, really other than the duties and policies you all give them
uh have no more power than anybody else. Um and then um that last one, I I think it would help you all if you did cut bait or fish, you know, decide either we're going to be all in on
traditional governance or all in on PG. Again, I'm not going to plastic. Uh we can help you either way, but I I do think it would be helpful because if you know nothing about your school district and you look at your policy book, you're like, "Well, why is there a board policy book and an administrative policy book?" Cuz really, in reality, they're all
board policies. So. >> Okay. Uh can you explain that more? >> Legally, you're responsible for all of the policies, regardless. So we say board policies, right? That's great, but you're still legally responsible for the superintendent
doesn't update the the administrative policy book and you never asked, and then you get sued cuz the policy's out of out of whack, the board is still responsible for it cuz that's what the board should have done. So. >> Meaning the board should
review the policy or do you mean the board should be writing >> No. >> The Yeah, okay. >> Not writing. >> [laughter] >> Like so for example, in in general in in PG, there will be a policy that says the
superintendent will not operate without all the rules, regulations required by law. And once a year, she's going to come to you and say, "Board of Education Policy Review Committee, we have a lot of CASB. Uh we feel that we are up-to-date. We've adopted all the special policies from
CASB or whatever." That's her affirmation to you all, right? Um that that work is being done. But ultimately, you're responsible for that because at the end of the day, if you were to get sued, they don't sue her, they sue
the board. >> Well, just to help everyone feel better, our audit meeting is tomorrow morning. >> Yeah. >> So, Matt, I feel like I'm still a tiny bit confused. >> Okay. >> What exactly is it that makes about that what you just said
>> Yeah. >> that makes you feel like we're living in both worlds? >> So, >> But, if we were if we were policy governance solid, >> Right. >> how would how would that be different in terms of the the those
>> You wouldn't be writing, revising, reviewing, per se, all of the A through so the B policies. Some of those would say in the A through or C through K. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Um I I see stuff on your agenda where the board is is
into those policies and stuff. Um and so, really, >> Do you have an example? >> Yeah, can you help us understand? >> Well, so, for example, um this is not a current one, but the the law that was passed related to non-gender-specific
names, >> Yep. >> right? That's an example where the law said the board has to have a policy. But, what the policy said was the board gets to decide what's appropriate for your school, right? So, the board would look at that the superintendent would come to the board and say, "Here's the
administrative policy. Here's what the law says." The law says, "We can allow um non- nicknames, right? And we can not notify the parent." Although, they took that out of the law. That was fixed
to be That's where the board would just reaffirm that policy. But, you wouldn't be going through all of the levels of the A's, the C's, the B's, the E's, the P's, the G's because the superintendent's going to do that work. Now, some of that still has to
come to the board for vote, and that's where I think people get confused. The superintendent will come to the board and say, "Hey, we we did our audit, and now we need to add these policies." So, she's going to or not add, well, could be add, it could be revisions, it could be removals. The board would still go out and look at
all that, cuz you have to vote on it, but you don't have to do all the work to decide, you know, whatever. Now, legally, the board could write those policies, but you do so at your own peril. Because if you start adding, "Well, we don't like that it says shall, it should
be a may." Well, the law said shall for a reason, and shall and may are two different things legally. So, if the board goes to may and the law said shall, you put yourself in trouble. What Carter would say is, "We're focusing on the four quadrants, your board-superintendent relationship, your
governance process, your executive expectations, uh and your ends." And in a one-year cycle, in my opinion, a good board should be able to review your executive expectations and your ends, and then either your PGs or your BSRs, so that in a two-year cycle, you review
all of your board policies. But once a year, or more often if the board wants, she's going to come and say, "Yep, we're operating with all the legally required policies." >> It doesn't make sense. Okay, I feel like that's >> Yeah, the way we operate.
>> Right. Do you not feel like that? >> No, I I do, which is why I'm still feeling like I thought I had a good handle on the difference, but maybe I don't. >> I don't either. >> [laughter] >> Like I'm trying cuz I think like we we have policies and we try and follow them. And you mentioned that there maybe
there were things on our agendas >> So, let me show you. >> that are not congruent with the with the PG. So, I'm I'm >> So, what the biggest things that I have seen that are in that are not PG, is I I
I didn't see any monitoring see monitoring reports okay >> We haven't I haven't seen a monitoring report in 4 years. >> 5 years >> Yeah. >> Some of your
>> I mean until you all joined the board there weren't any work sessions either the whole time I was on the board. >> Say again that >> There were no work sessions when I joined the board there was all different people but 2 years I
couldn't I I would ask for work sessions and I would as one board member I obviously could not force that issue but we had no work sessions at all. >> So >> And lots of resolutions. >> Here's some examples so this is your BSR. This is a policy that you have
adopted and it appears the last time it was reviewed was 2018. >> Which one is? >> BSR >> So are we talking about Yeah we that doesn't mean it hasn't been looked at. I don't think
It it it has been a long time because that was another thing the previous board wasn't doing but we wondered because we are looking through all of our plates. But I did we didn't know if then we should add that we we should
>> When it was reviewed versus when it was revised even if it was reviewed >> Do we need a separate just reviewed >> All of the agenda all it would look like is BSR so in this case BSR one. The board reviewed this policy found it compliant or whatever without change and
then you just add a new date here so that you now know >> So okay so even though it wasn't actually revised >> It might require revision. >> But you would still add the date to the revised line or should we have a reviewed line? >> You You could add reviewed. um I think
revised is just kind of a hangover from probably your original template, but it could be reviewed. >> I was thinking that was the date that it actually was changed. >> If I'm a community member and I look at that and I go, "Well, what have they been doing for the last 8 years?" >> That's right. Yep. >> So,
um the other thing I was going to just going to say real quick >> Did we have a resolution on that? >> Two of that they think the site [laughter] the letters, right? Of the policies and which ones we should review and which ones we shouldn't, but I thought that all the ones that we that you listed
were all in the bucket of board. >> They are. So, BG board every year should review, in my opinion, probably every year, I think, your ends cuz those are your big statements and your executive limitations. Every year you should be able to do all of them. >> Yeah. >> And then every other year
or in a 2-year cycle your BSRs and your GPs. So, one year it might be your ends and your BSRs and then the next year it's your ends and your GPs and your GPs. Because that way in a 2-year cycle, when a new board member gets elected, you review the
whole book. >> So, I think maybe we are operating as a GP. And the prior board was not. >> I think >> And we just haven't gotten through all of the re- reviews yet. >> Yeah. >> And
>> Again. >> I think maybe somebody set up that that's also a reason. >> You've had a few things going on, too, right? >> Yeah. >> And we've talked about that and that makes sense that you know, you had to hire a superintendent, you had to just do some other things. And so, it makes sense
that maybe it didn't look right. >> Okay. >> Um >> Yeah, I did. >> [laughter] >> Uh we've talked a lot about this, so I won't do it. The only one I highlighted here is board members request an item that you not have on it. Um, that's one that comes up quite often. I
I always ask for a work session. I always ask for it to be on the agenda, and I never get any traction. Write it down. Uh because it should be that the board president can't say no. >> Mhm. >> That's not going to be on the agenda. Right? >> Mhm. >> There is language currently now
>> Yeah. >> that says the board superintendent uh the board president or the superintendent can say no. >> Right. >> And what it really should be is a confirmation to the board, do they want to have that? You know, so if somebody asks for it, and asks for it, and asks
for it, and the president just keeps saying no, the full board then should be able to say clearly, if there's a majority, we want that on the agenda. Doesn't happen very often, but it could. >> Ma'am, I will say that was that was the
case where they would say, "If two other board members request the same thing, then we'll add it." Yeah. >> Nobody else >> One >> That's the law. I mean, that And people don't like that. >> It was like >> I'm sorry. You got to have at least a majority. >> Yeah. One of the things that I really
like that Keegan has has implemented is that at our work session, we look at the agenda as a whole board for the regular board meeting, and we all make decisions together about what goes on that that when I was on the
board, it was the president and the superintendent that set the agenda. Um and I think this is much healthier, and it gives input from the entire board. I I really like that. >> And you do, by and large, want
>> Mhm. >> board president and the superintendent driving the agenda, but at at the end of the day, it's the board's agenda. >> It's not. >> And if you don't if you know, so I don't I don't wish you anything bad, actually, not a bad president, but she goes and balls off a mountain. Nobody else is knows how that is done. Yeah.
The board is really at a loss. Just like in your executive limitations, if you were to get hit by a bus, she has to come to the board at least once a year and say, "Here's the two people that could take over for me." Right. Um the other thing I was going to share with you real quick is
This could be a little too hard to see. >> Is that our And we do come to the work sessions with a draft agenda on there? >> Okay. I know it's already doing any rearranging or adding. >> So, this is kind of what I would encourage if if you were to stick with
the PG model, this is where you would go through month by month and say E O >> Mhm. >> Yeah, and then you plug them all in. >> We have that. >> And the corresponding monitoring would be >> We have that. Um is the B S Is the
It's a G P I'm going to write it there. Like 50. What you have to say? >> And again, maybe it's just because >> 80 >> Yeah, that's still going on, but I haven't seen >> That happen? >> No, it hasn't happened. Well, like in
No, this this uh calendar year we started adding >> doing >> these things and in accordance with what's in the policy. And I think we have B S R
and um G P that we cover we cover all of them every year. >> Yes. The way that our calendar is set up. >> And if if that's good for you all, that's fine. Sometimes it just feels a little bit like too much. >> It might be too much. >> If you'd like. Yeah, what we do is we do policy, what do we talk about? Kids.
>> Right. >> And most of those literally is a 5-second conversation. How are we doing that? Yeah. Okay. And it's update, that's what the new data I will to be. Um the last one, board member attendance, preparation for meetings. If it's not an issue,
it's kind of a big deal, but there's very specific law on how many meetings you can miss, how many you can attend electronically, because most of them are personal. Um and then that preparation for the board meeting, right? You don't want to be that person who needs opening the PDF
that night, you know, I just sit down at the board table like, "Oh, we're going to talk about that tonight?" Hm. So, again, that's at dinner time. You know, that's a good time to talk about that when you're doing an actual pre-board meeting or how you're going to do things. >> Matt, I In previous board, there was
maybe um a violation of the number of times you could do a remote call in to a meeting. Um and and I uh I don't know what that number is. Would it be wise for us to add that to policy, to board to our
specific board, whatever the law is, add it to our board policy? >> I think it's in It is. It is, right? It's probably in there. >> The number that you can miss? >> Yes. >> Or or the How about the number that you can do electronically? >> Is that in there as well? >> Um okay. Okay.
>> Yeah. >> That one's I think revised. That one's >> It's really >> No, it was just ignored. Oh, or do you mean since you were >> Yeah, revised. >> It's really other than a recall or an offense of a sexual nature of a child, there's not much you can do to remove a
board member. >> Right. >> You can censure this Let's say again. >> They can remove him off of the >> Well, yeah, and that actually has implications. Um There's actually something you got elected out of a district and then you have to tie to [clears throat] that election official elected date.
But really, you you know, people talk, "Well, we're going to the board can censure or somebody." But that's just you saying that you're being bad. Um This is your vision as I found it, right? Is this correct? >> Mhm. >> So, I would just ask the board at some
point to take a few minutes and say, "Does this accurately reflect this board? Does this reflect where we are, where we want to go forward?" If not, you are the only ones that can change it. >> We create, we destroy, this one. >> Yeah.
Your mission, you're aware of that. The one thing I would say as you go through and you're looking for how you're going to evaluate the superintendent. What are the elements that you would pick out of this and what evidence would you want to see? And have that conversation with the superintendent. What's reasonable?
So, and that reasonableness is really really important. Um because a lot of that was prepares responsible capable citizens. That can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So, she brings evidence that, you know, um
she thinks she's preparing capable citizens and the board's like, that's not what we meant. We meant Can they They can change. Can they read an analog watch or something? All right. Good work. Yes, please. I'm sorry. >> Really quick question on that. Um one of the things I'm just finding right now in our board
uh policies is what is called uh I don't know what it is. P P. Yeah, P, but it's a board purpose statement. And it is the what is kind of the priorization of what our previous board sort of vision mission was. And this is memorialized now in policy. So,
I'm So, if we're going to revise our Well, if we have revised our mission and vision, could we then adopt a revised policy? It's the last tab in your policy or in your booklet called district purpose and it's policy P. >> That probably would have been where like
the district ends were previously. >> Cuz I don't know what it Yeah, cuz it looks like it's been there since 1998. So, it's probably been revised many times over, but um I'd be I'm wondering if that's something we now should take action on
as we've adopted our newer strategic plan. >> And a lot of this can come out when you do the audit. You'll get across what both the administrative side and the board side and then maybe one of the four of us. But again,
>> Is Is Is purpose statement the typical language around that or is it something different? >> Some people will say the board you know, they'll write it a job uh duty job description of the board or the job board job duties. Purpose of the board >> We have that too.
>> Yeah, we have that too. Okay. But yeah, that cuz this this was what was on the website. >> Right. Yeah. Mhm. But I just know I didn't realize that it was written in policy, so I think something for us to look at because our new direction is different than it was,
so. >> Yeah, maybe we'll do that. >> I'll add that to the next I'll add that to the agenda. >> [laughter] >> So, what other questions do you all have? Any insights, reflections that you want
to share? >> I um I have some questions about um board committees, board task forces, board you know, what what um >> Great. >> in in especially in situations like
ours, what what what what recommendations do you have for us in terms of accomplishing some of the things >> Sure. >> from you We just We did have a task force that looked at sustainable funding
um that that um I led and it was uh it was made up of community lots of people but and we had five meetings and it's over. But what, you know, just kind of talk through some of that and where board members belong and where they them.
>> Uh two things. There are certain committees that are required by law. You have to have a district accountability. You have to have a Senate Bill 163. Is that the employee >> Senate Bill 163? The value educator >> evaluation >> educator
>> And it's Senate Bill. Anyway, you have to have that committee. Um the rest is really up to the board. Carver is very anti-board committee. >> Mhm. >> Under unless certain circumstances. Uh if it's a board committee,
there should be a reason why the whole board doesn't feel like they can have that discussion at the board. So, if you have a finance committee because somebody was a CFO forever, you Carver would say you're you're replacing the expertise of one person for the voice of the whole board.
Uh so, it's up to you all. And then the question I always have with a finance committee, why do you have a CFO if you're going to have a committee that also is looking at finances, right? The whole board should be looking at that. Uh now, there could be certain
circumstances, right? Obviously, if you've got something of a crisis or going on, but the question is always is that the most effective use of board time? >> So, I guess to add to that, right? Because we just adopted a finance
committee, but it's not just board members. It includes community >> Okay. >> members as well >> So, >> to help with just kind of the the transparency and and advisory and and >> Mhm. >> you know, they're not making decisions, but they would have an extra look at
things and and report to the board. Board. They decide on things, but they can only recommend to the board. >> And that's what Carver would say. If you stand up a committee and [clears throat] you don't give them a specific scope of work, you don't make it very clear that
they do not get to make the decision. It's only recommendation. >> Mhm. Then you've created this just thing where uh the finance committee comes back and says, "Yeah, I think you need a $10,000 over here." And the board says, "No." Now they're mad, right? Cuz they did all this work and the board still
didn't give them what they needed, right? So, should we ad hoc generally should have a clear scope of work and people should know that they don't get to make the decision. The other thing is in some communities, service on certain committees gets to be a birthright. Long-range planning, well, there's
always been a Cook on that committee for 20 years, right? What's the benefit to the board? Now, the superintendent as part of her means might have a staff advisory, they might have a student advisory, might have a policy review uh committee, but
those are all means of what she's trying to do to accomplish what the board has asked her. So, Carver's hard on committees. I tend to be too just because I would I just want to know what would be the purpose and why does the board feel like that's the only way to get the information they
need. So, what you're saying though you're doing community uh you're engaging, you're trying to get more people involved and and show us that the books are not cooked and you really are getting where we need to be. Did that help any? >> Mhm.
>> Plus, how about you all? I don't need one more meeting to go to. >> Right. >> You all might be freaks and love meeting. >> [laughter] >> What are the thoughts, questions, Dave? >> Um one of the things that we're uh working through a little bit right
now is what like just trying to clarify the board's role in negotiations in terms of the contracts. Um and or um uh potentially and just how to navigate like the dispute a dispute resolution
process should a dispute arise. I'm curious to know if you have any thoughts or experience on that. >> Are they still like talking fully negotiations? >> No. >> charter >> charter >> Yeah. >> charter school negotiations Um my understanding is you all have a fairly long-term contract with your
charter school. I I'm not aware of contract that long. >> Mhm. >> So >> related contracts too, not just the charter itself. >> But purchase services, specialty services
>> So the charter stuff is it's really separate. Um There is very specific rules, regulations, and all of that around that. And what I would generally say, and again, refer to your your lawyer, your CFO, your
superintendent, once the board has signed a contract, you kind of have to abide by what's in the contract. Or go to them and ask can we reopen it? Um what you are saying to the board or the board or you're saying to the
superintendent and the superintendent um make sure that we're doing things that the contract is being enforced, it's being enforced in a way that is good for the district and good for those children over there. Um I don't see a role for the board in that
per se because I don't know what you all would do that the superintendent and her staff can't already do. But I don't know. Is there something I'm missing? >> There's I would say that there's a lot to unpack there in terms of just trying to
clarify where we've been. Where are we in compliance and out of compliance with the contract? And that's all things that our staff have been working on. But also just trying to figure out It's a lot of it's relationship I I think. That's the biggest piece right now is like just trying to come to a place where we can
level set and find common ground, set the stage for things that need to happen in the future like facility use agreement negotiations down the road. >> So Yeah, and I get that but the board would be saying that in direction of the superintendent. I don't know that that's
something that the board I mean I guess where where where would you see the board a board member being involved I mean if Supt comes back and says we reviewed the the contract with the charter school and here's areas where we
have concerns then the board gives direction to say yeah, we need to resolve that, we need to fix that. We need more information here, maybe we need to legal consult here as opposed to I'm going to go down to the charter school and can talk to them and then bring back a report. I don't know.
I think that's a conversation we all need to have. I mean procurement's pretty straightforward. Colorado law's pretty straightforward on procurement and bids and all kinds of things. You really can't do single source bids on except for professional services in some instances. I mean
so you just want to make sure that the district is following these things on the procurement side. The charter thing is another can of worms. I would really encourage you to work with your lawyer. Get with them and
maybe what they need to do is is bring a report to the board and say we looked at the contract, here's here's what it says, here's what we think. You know. >> Yeah, to a certain extent I think it's it's part of what I think what we're trying to do is bridge the gap between our role of being a bridge for the community, right? Hearing concerns from
the community, trying to resolve it, hearing concerns from the community within the charter school itself and trying to say okay we need to like kind of have a full picture of where we're at. True. Try to figure out how we can move forward on this and then hopefully come back. >> Yeah. >> To staff in terms of how we're moving
forward, but it's just difficult to figure out exactly where it has to go. Yeah. >> And maybe coming back out of that report from them, that might be an opportunity for communication. Maybe we're going to ask like if we try to find some to come. Sit down and have a conversation with us.
I don't know how well that would be received sometimes. Sometimes it's really good. I mean the folks who have really good relationships with their charters, it's really good. And where it's not good, it's really not good. And there's no middle ground, unfortunately. So.
But yeah, that's one that I think you all need to have some discussion and talk about. Definitely get the lawyers. I mean, so I mean to say it's going to cost, but I mean you have to have that legal opinion cuz you can really get yourself in a bad
situation pretty quick. >> Mhm. >> I probably didn't help there. >> [laughter] >> If I had the wand, I would give it to you. >> No, but I I think that does happen cuz I think we are asking staff to compile things, looking
at what's been compiled, using that as evidence to guide uh what we direct the staff to do going forward is [snorts] is what we're doing. So. >> And there's a lot of different ways. Uh we
>> They don't plan on negotiating directly. >> Uh most charter contracts now because they've been around long enough, there's a lot of boilerplate and it's all pretty much the same and unless it's not. Uh and some districts have liaisons that
can be helpful. They have some districts who have hired that. Um some districts do it strictly lawyer to the It just kind of matters what you all are going to find to discuss for you. And the home school, same thing. There's big changes coming related to
home school and some enrichment that's been available. I feel bad for superintendents cuz those they are not going to be easy changes. But that's what they are hired for. >> But yeah, I'll just add in if are there any of the changes that have impacted
our district stuff? >> What what >> No. >> No. Um there's and it's not mostly it's not school districts per se, but there are some organizations that did an enrichment.
Uh and I found out that they if you do enrichment to a certain level, we get some money. >> Mhm. >> And some of the enrichment was we're going to go on a raft trip or we're we're going to take a trip and go to Disneyland or something like And then the the JCs and the drug budget committee put some things on that. And
they also Yeah. >> Do you know if >> I put you to sleep a lot of you start down the JCs route. Um the other thing I I I chatted a little bit with with folks. Um I I do think it would behoove the board. I'm not saying this because we're
the ones that can do it. Um I think it would benefit you all to build some additional development, professional development. But your capacity and you probably have some great folks in the district who can facilitate some stuff. We're happy to help. Um you know, I think uh kind of a early
part of the school year um retreat to really get some things in line here, certainly what superintendent has in mind heading into her first year officially in that role, um can be beneficial. Um We can do some things via Zoom, you know, we can do other things, but like I
said, it doesn't have to be us. But I would encourage the board to do that. And sometimes boards are hesitant, you know, and don't want to spend money on us. It's a really important job. $20 million is nothing to sneeze at. And so you need to you need to have what you need to have. So if we
we do something like that, it's beneficial. And the other thing I would say, and that's Candace was in there, she's been tremendous. You're a great resource helping coordinate everything, and great to work with, so thank you for all of your time and effort today. >> Okay, thank you. >> And I'm serious. If you have questions,
that's my cell number, my email. I do like to talk about this stuff, so let me know. Anything else? Do you agree with the order? >> So my only last question is if there's anything in particular that you've seen of this
district or this board that concerns you, that you think we should address immediately. >> The only thing we It's the one we talked about. I think you got feet in both worlds. Um and I just think it would would it would
help you to declare one way or the other. So. Because if you don't go with BG, we can start down that road. If you do go to BG, then we should have conversations around the monitoring and some of this other stuff. >> Yeah.
>> But no, I think other than that, um I've been real pleased. You're all coming from good intentions, which is so helpful. I walk into a lot of boards, and I'm just like, "Ooh, this is not going to be good." And so I think you all want to do good things for kids, which is amazing. And
it's just it's hard. It's messy work, and it takes a long time. So. >> It sounds to me like the what we to become more solidly GP then is that we need to sort of identify
um a couple of ends, either either create an end statement or make it crystal clear that this is these are the primary objectives for our superintendent and the things that we want our which would be what we would get our
monitoring reports on. Which would be the academic >> and >> whatever. Yeah. And and that would then That That's what we need to do is narrow in and focus that little piece of it.
>> And I will say it takes probably a a full year to get comfortable with the monitoring because superintendents, I love them, but they are going to come back with this everything. Um and sometimes they're not comfortable
and they don't know what to do. And so and then the other piece is is it it really does take a a year-ish to get back in the habit of that monitoring, the policy stuff, and and refocusing. You all have been putting out a lot of
fires and you know, it's okay to now take a breath maybe and think about how do we focus on us a little bit, too. >> Matt, one of the one of the habits that we had when I was on the board board at our fall retreat we would set board goals.
>> Yeah. >> And we would have three or four and they were community engagement generally. I mean, it was the it was the priorities of the board for the year. Um the superintendent usually would give us their personal goals, too, and lots of
times they were related because they realized part of their job is to make the board success help the board be successful. Um is that is that a helpful practice practice that we have things that we as
a board know this is our job. This is our lane. >> Right. >> This is >> I think it can be. >> Thoughts on that? >> Um I would I would encourage you first to focus on the goals of the superintendent. >> Mhm. >> Um minus those goals, you're just trying to nail jello right to the wall. >> Yeah.
>> And so the the board really needs to be crystal clear. So, I'd be interested when the board hears your suggestions, and it may very well align with what the board is thinking. But yes, board goals can be very helpful. >> I mean, one year our our one of our goals was to
review and rewrite policy. >> Sure. >> I mean, that was that was a one of the best bring goals for that year. Probably would be helpful. So. You know, I mean, I just just that I I think that that would be And I I think sometimes what
that does too is that helps the board have a focus on um our our tasks. Should that be memorialized in policy then? I don't know. Like >> Wait, it's really I mean >> I I think every year we printed it and and it was probably on the website. I'm
not sure where it all where it all was, but we did have it was it was written out. And then at the end of the year, we went back and looked, did we accomplish the things that we as a board said that we were going to accomplish.
>> An example of that would be some boards are much more um engaged on the advocacy front, and so they have a legislative platform. >> Yeah. >> And so there are things that they're clearly going to advocate for more school finance, you know, but it might be a specific thing related to
your school district. That's an example something like that that I don't know for sure. All right, Madam President, that's all I have. >> Sounds good. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming. >> Yeah, thank you. Always great conversations. >> Um
you know, it's a work session, so it's a little less formal than than normal. Is there anything else you want to cover before we end our evening? And really but cuz we don't have any more regular meetings until August.
Or work sessions. >> Um do we want to chat just a little bit about the letter, the quarterly letter? >> The what? >> The quarterly community letter that we're all right? >> All right. Yes. >> Yes. >> But you don't have to >> Yeah, you are. Thank you.
>> You are very welcome if you want to hold you hostage while we continue on. >> Well, it's not bad. I got a couple of things. >> Here you go. >> [laughter] >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Um So Cassie was talking about our our
letter that we put out to the community covering things we have accomplished and we tackled in the quarter. >> Uh just to expand on that a little bit. Did get a confirmation from Doug Fitzgerald today that we are officially scheduled like we're in the courier on
for July 15th. The next two um guest columns were already taken but the just to remind everybody on that the general scope of what that has been which has been the full version of the letter which we published to the website. The 300-word version which goes
to the courier. Um and then just the related kind of community support that LUSD provides and I think we put it either link as I think it's been put as a link in the newsletter. I would like to recommend or maybe get your feedback on whether we could send um send it as a standalone
email cuz I just don't know how often people get super deep into the newsletter and I really think it's important information for um for for the community. At least just to our emails to district families. And um and right now I'm from what I talked to
Keegan last week, we're just going to start organizing the topics. Keegan was going to do the first draft and then um, we have a deadline of Friday, July 11th at noon, but that has to be submitted at least for the courier. We could publish it at any point that we
wanted to on our own site, right? Like we can we're in complete control of that. So I don't think we have to wait exactly for the guest column. Last time we I think published it on the website maybe on a Friday and then it came in it was in the courier the following week. So it was like Tuesday, Wednesday that people receive it.
Um, so I that's sort of the plan right now, but I just wanted to very like validate with the board that sounds like a good approach or if anybody has any questions or concerns about that. Um, the only other thing too that we kind of kicked around that we I don't think anybody had any strong opinions about was kind of the off There has to be an author attributed to a guest column. So
we talked about whether Keegan is still the author just the author speaking on behalf of the board or if that what we wanted to rotate that. Um, if anybody felt strongly that they wanted to author an article or that the whole board should be representing we could revisit it, but I think that's our current game plan based on what we
have right now. Yeah. >> I think nobody else wanted >> Yeah. >> She she kind of pulled that one over and I find keeping it, but open to it if someone feels strongly about it. I think they're face in the newspaper. >> [laughter]
>> Yeah. Um, I would say maybe that in the um, um, we could probably start getting like the topics that are being covered in case there's anything that the board wanted to weigh in on or just send to Keegan and say, "Oh, don't Make sure you don't miss that." >> There's not going to be any real opportunity for discussion around it at
all. >> I think we can still You did this and you know, you're excited about it. So you shoot me an email so we can agree to >> Exactly. I can start with the I've been keeping a like a running list since our last letter of topics.
So I'll send that to you and just if see the word as a hey, these are the topics that we're just BCC. Yeah, BCC for the topics for the for the next letter. And if anybody has any other feedback just send it to me and I'll read them. So, Do you have any concerns with the timing
of that Lindsay just from a communications perspective? >> No, I think sending it out before the paper is fine cuz we did that last time. And then in addition to sending it to the families, especially right now since we don't have a whole lot of messaging going to families, so it's not going to get lost in their inboxes.
And then I can add a text notifying them of what was just sent to their inboxes. >> Did we get anywhere with that? We had talked about having a sign up for community members who wanted to be included on you know, the newsletters or
these types of things that >> We have seven or eight sign ups. >> Okay. >> So, I can send it to them if you guys want me to as well. >> And we can make an announcement to reminding people about that when we send it out. >> Um, I was just going to put it on social media with a link. >> Yeah. If they would like it in their
inbox. >> That's what I was thinking. That's a great idea. >> Yeah. I think that's We have slash piles we need to get rid of. >> Oh, we still do? >> Yes. >> Over Columbine? >> Columbine and here at the high school.
And Jason has reached out to Netco and said that's a bigger task, but they're prepared to support. >> Okay. Is that like we need a a chipper to get rid of the slash piles or that's and then what volunteers just to put it in there or
>> A little bit of both. >> Yeah. >> No Flo Co said that uh, can take any firewood that's still at Columbine. I don't know if there's any firewood that's still there. If so, they said they can make that disappear quickly. And if a chipper was made available, they
would send people to help chip. >> Okay. >> We charge the community if we rent a a chipper, they would also provide people to help at Columbine and here at the high school as well. Um, there's a lot of slash here. They
have a place where they can store this move the slash to. >> Okay. >> Um, we would have to put it in a large bin again or get tractor trailer, I'm sorry, trailers or trucks to put it into, but they have a spot that it could go to.
Or if we do the chipper route again here, they would provide people to help support with the chipping. It's just you having people come pick up the chip board just throw it into the forest up above here at the high school or or out at Columbine is kind of a long
path and back path as well that they would just put it in >> Put it in the back of the truck. Yeah. I I the neighborhood I'm in, so we are a fire wise neighborhood and so every year we do like a chipping day and
we have a group that comes in with the chipper and then we just provide all the people. >> Do you recall what the group is? Is it You said it was going to look at talking Rubicon as well. But I don't know if that's an option.
>> Yeah. >> They're usually as deeply involved with Rubicon. I should do some more straight. They can you can sleep in our gym for a week. >> [laughter] >> While you're in our community here or at >> Yeah. I think I I it's part of like this
Upper South Plan. >> Yeah. >> Uh something. >> Okay. Uh >> Cus Cus >> Cus right. Colorado Upper South Plan. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I think I can actually reach out to the people
in my neighborhood that set that up too and see if they know like a person to reach out to or if we can figure it out on their schedule. I don't even know. But >> And if you know, one of the things that if Net Co said they couldn't do the whole thing, if we had a a time where
other people were bringing chippers if they could bring their chipper as well and do do what they could do. Uh they could still provide some support if that's possible. I do know it's it's additional work for the the firefighters in Turk cuz they're they're asked to come in on their off days to do the
chip. So, we want to make sure we're sensitive to that as well. >> Um uh Kegan, I know we we didn't have I don't think the discussion about the agenda for August, but >> Yeah. >> is that something you guys have already given some thought to? >> Um
kind of but not in an official capacity yet. I think there are I mean, obviously we have policy things that we're supposed to cover and I I know we had discussed at uh the last one we had about having scheduling our
board retreat earlier in the year so like in the fall instead of September >> or October. >> I didn't know it was in September. >> Yeah. >> Let me find some. >> Um so, that would be something we'd like to have on the agenda so we can kind of hammer out what we hope to achieve
during that meeting and and maybe look into the facilitators. Uh Beyond that, I didn't have anything else in mind. That's it. >> Previous years in this meeting, not to
be um >> I think we might that might be an email type situation where because we have July off that we just going to send out email or saying hey, here is what Here's what we could >> Do you want me to send it out like the the like towards the end of July? Like
give it or I can do it earlier is what I'm saying. Like if we're not having a work session, I can send it out earlier than we normally would have the work session so that there's more time to submit feedback and then I'll look and see what we Yeah, cover and then we are my understanding is we're starting
that review fresh where all of the policies, the board policy governance and so they'll be And usually those are the leaders are doing is you review it in the work session and then consent agenda if
there's no revisions. So really since there's no work session, the first round would hit August work session, correct? So there would be none on the August regular board meeting so it'd be the first round August work
session. But I'll look and see what like it's normally. >> Yeah. >> The only thing we may want to consider given what we discussed today is um I don't know if we want to have a conversation or if we just want to do it but adding that
reviewed reviewed line to the bottom of all of our policies so that you know, if we didn't change anything at least people know we looked at it. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Retroactively for this board? >> Yes. Yeah, I would I would. We may need to look at an action item
for P, right? Is that what I was talking about too? >> yes, for what purpose? >> Well, maybe that needs to be a discussion Does it need to be a reading first and then >> Well, so the purpose statement like our mission and vision, like this was the last board's version
of their mission and vision. This was what was on the website that we replaced with our mission and vision. So, I don't actually think we need a first reading is my thought currently because it's already on the website and we're just actually We've already
approved it. We've had lengthy discussions about the mission and vision already. It would just be like, "Hey, we're updating this document." But we already gave the community ample time to provide us with feedback on those
things and we're just replacing it on this page is my current thought, but I know that you have a different Other thoughts? Cuz with that like the purpose of us coming to the board and saying, "Hey, this is the first reading of our
proposed changes to this policy." is so that the community has an opportunity to say, "Hey, I don't like it for XYZ reason." We've already done that with the mission and vision statement. We've already asked, "Please provide us with feedback." We've made adjustments based
on that feedback already. And now it's just memorializing it in the policy. >> I I'm really curious what it looked like before this version. Like if it was formatted the same way, if it had the same components or not. Is there any way
to dig that up in our >> I have a past history type >> So, Chief kept >> I kept everything. So, I can pull the old P. Um cuz it looked like the last time it was revised was in 2022. Yeah.
So. So were you saying sorry that you wanted be on the agenda? >> agenda. >> Yes. >> As an action. >> That is what we were trying to decide. Is it an action or is it >> Or is it a discussion first and then an action at
the next. >> What does your policy say when we change that page? >> That there is I think the practice is but again what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> I understand what you're saying is that through you went through multiple discussions in terms of public and then
an action finally to approve that first part of the strategic >> We met the spirit of intent. >> Yes. >> Mhm. We did We did not change the district hands every year. Um that that did get changed but not on
a yearly basis. That's And when we did our ends I don't really remember doing first readings like three readings that kind of thing. That was a >> But was that in the policy though or was it something else? That's what I'm really curious about looking at the prior versions of like what was the contents of that?
Because I think you like >> I feel like it will settings of that whole thing. >> Yeah. And that's part of what I what I'm curious about is like does it make sense like is purpose statement the right frame of policy in that So like
or maybe it should be something else. >> Yeah. So we do have a policy on developing policy. >> [laughter] >> Right. >> And it does call out a first reading, a second reading, and an adoption. So you can adopt it in the same meeting
as the second reading which is what we have been doing when we are amending things. If presented in one meeting, have discussion, and read it in the second meeting, and
had another discussion, and then voted whether we wanted to adopt it. That is what the policy says. So, I am okay with us still coming forward and reading it. Maybe it'll be good to to be able to read
what the 2018 version was prior to the change. >> Can you email those? >> The one the old >> The old I know. It's easier to say Mr. Purpose, the old purpose. >> [laughter]
>> Do you have Can you email those to you guys? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. And you want me to go back so the 2022 that was changed, and then you want the 20 was it 18? >> 2022? That's here. Okay. Cuz I was asked to send the >> the 2018 was the last email of those
changed. >> Yeah. Email it all. And then we can discuss it. We'll just put it on as a discussion item, and we'll discuss it and see if it makes sense to replace it with the mission and vision. We can do that as a first reading, and then adopt it. Cuz there's no consequence for us pushing that till
September anyway. >> Right. As As far as my evaluation, I want to make sure we're all clear. I understand the process we're going to use. So, I know of this, but we have the superintendent evaluation rubric.
Am I understanding that we're using this? Are we using end statements, or I guess I'm just want to make sure that I'm tracking. Or is that something we're going to
discuss in executive session? >> Um I remember that time. Is it goes, what did I know used on the board? I didn't even read that. And it was so used to >> No, it's like an addendum at the very end. It's at the very end and I know
I I believe Dr. Gonzales speaks as well. It was in the very back of my binder. It'd be like this. Oh. I mean, one this is all referencing in It's all whatever's on the agenda. >> It's uh she has Yeah, and she has something
different than what you're looking at. >> Is it? Cuz I think I have the same rubric at the end. >> Yeah. Yeah, it just looks different. >> Oh. >> Hers has got, you know, hers has green and yours doesn't. >> I probably printed those in color.
>> Okay. And I had to ask. That part I had been on the board for some months. Yeah, this is what I said. Maybe not when I make you believe it. I included This isn't even has like a timeline.
Yeah, I Here's Here's the last thing. >> Oh, that's helpful. >> I I think that we need to do and that's what we what we had said was One of the errors that we had made as a board was doing a superintendent evaluation.
It caught the superintendent off guard. Yeah, which should never happen. >> No. >> Um and that and and that was when we moved to doing the monthly report. >> Mhm. >> And that way we choose monthly whether
we agree that the superintendent is in compliance. But that doesn't mean that if there's an incident that we can't go back you know and revisit that one. But my thinking is And need to do that one this year
because she needs to know what she's going to be evaluated on. And then if we want to make one of our board's goals to change this to executive limitations to to go back through the superintendent's um >> Mhm.
>> then then we do that. But we can't change it while we're, you know, midyear while she's You know what I mean? >> Yes. And I agree. I can personally put them in the HR file on Thursday. Mhm. >> [laughter] >> And um I would say I think
the only thing you can do right now is is what you have, right? And and so we have to operate under that. I think we all agree it can be improved. And we will work to do that, but it wouldn't take effect until Okay. The following
year. Um because because it has to. That And then And we'll also follow the contract cuz you have things in your contract that are about the evaluation. And so we'll adhere to that as well. And double-check I'm trying to remember
asking Is it two? >> It was supposed to be two. >> Yeah. In my current contract that is so it kind of is what it is. Yeah, it's just, you know. >> So just to clarify then how that
actually works for us in terms of like our meeting cadence, does that mean that every month that the board like like the board discusses that as an agenda item? Or how does that work? >> The way that the past worked is the
superintendent does a presentation on her like like for both these. Um um Katie do an executive um limitations monitoring report every month. And
she'll report on that particular month's assignment and then the board votes to accept her report uh as this is we agree she has been compliant with in this particular area.
>> Um I think the current ones do have a specific date month that they're supposed to be addressed. It is self-monitoring. Uh >> There's some >> It's also has surveys and things. So again, these have not been followed
>> Yeah. >> in recent years, but I think going forward using these >> And I and I think that some of them are pretty crystal clear and those can be a quick board vote um or there was a I
think they did like a I think I saw them Dr. Neil >> He went to 2023. >> I think >> He would >> a paper out. >> I yeah, I think he >> went when someone was presenting. >> Cuz I think each board member >> filled it out for that. >> filled it out, yeah.
>> And I don't know that he was always the one doing the presentation. Like if it was a financial report because he was in charge of the annual >> or an academic report. It was somebody Yeah, it doesn't have to be the superintendent that reports on it. Um
and then I think if there is one that there's like a concern and it requires some personal discussion, then you can have an executive session that night. And you can go into executive session and have more in-depth >> Yeah. >> discussion on the
topic. >> That works for me. I just wanted to make sure I understood >> Yeah. >> the expectation. >> And then as far as do you guys want me to present where we're at with the strategic goals
in August. You want me to pick like or do you want me to share what I feel like with the priorities? I feel like they're all really important. I want to say that, but I feel like running the school district
you can't set them all up. Well, I'm just trying to think of like my biggest priorities like um academics has always been a really huge priority. Um safety and security is a huge priority
and then I know our finances. I know all the other ones are really important as well and so like the engagement is really important. I know. I feel like we're doing a better job with that and I feel like there's things we can
continue doing that we started this year. Mhm. Um I just I want to make sure that we're for doing that and putting it on paper. It's really well done with quality and not me rushing because I didn't have enough time to meet with
the right people over the summer to get it done. And I do like the draft that I have with me tonight. It's the one we did with principals and we did focus on stabilize. I think we did a very nice job and I I know it's in draft form.
But I feel like we took the work we and really took it serious. And had really good factors and discussions with me putting them But we are also trying to be really realistic. What stabilize looks like compared to
strengthen compared to direct. >> So what I'm thinking is if we are going to set an agenda item in our uh retreat for us to kind of set those
ends, right? Those three ends. Then if you are and that's happening in September for the August meeting, I think it would be beneficial for us to have a more in-depth conversation about which of the priorities we feel
are most imperative and achievable this year. You can present, you know, the the work you've done on the academics. And then we can kind of have you know, you present that to us and then we take that
to the retreat so we can and set that up. Does that make sense? This way you're not panicking in the next month to try and do all the things. This is wonderful work and I'm so glad you did that. Um and then let's just make sure that by
our September we have our retreat done. >> I I mean, I don't I don't think that we have to all agree on the the the maybe three priorities. >> Yeah. >> And and if she's trying to do a lot of work
in terms of goals and uh key performance indicators, it makes more sense time-wise to do it after we affirm. And we've decided what we believe the three >> Brand, just I'm just hoping like
I'm now looking at the calendar, right? Okay, so so we have an August meeting. We're looking at you're presenting what things you think are important. We take that to a September work session retreat. Is that before or after
our September meeting? Are we saying we're not going to present these falls into October. That doesn't feel great. >> Why don't we work on why don't we do it in a work session? >> And the September board meeting is early. Do you guys remember that?
It's like September >> So so maybe we need an August retreat or we just want to do it in a work session. >> She Ginger I remember Ginger when we were discussing it before saying that August is so busy for educators that August was a hard month to have
retreat in that it might be easier to do it September retreat. >> So maybe we just have a work session in August to do that. >> in August and we can do that could be the the work session. Yes. narrowing in and doing some of that.
>> Okay. I would like to have that. fairly well set right away where we can all We're more but I think having that pretty well decided by September is the right thing to do. >> So should I work on the three or do you
guys want to discuss the priorities that you would prefer tonight or I just want to make sure my energy is focused in the right places for the rest of the summer. >> A question for you on the work that you did on the academic side cuz
when we where we left off with the strategic planning process right? Was improving the first half and then we kind of decided we're going to hand you what we did right? So I'm really curious just based on how you facilitated that discussion and where you landed. Was it
was it largely aligned with like the initial framework or was it very different? Cuz I think one of the things I'm wondering is like we've already done a lot of work to identify lots of different areas >> if if want to look [snorts] at it. but we did we used the old version that
wasn't approved as a guide and then we said that this is appropriate, this might be too much and we really narrowed it down to of what academic academic excellence looked like to us for St. Vrain Valley. >> Mhm.
>> And then I think I'm for the first global which was improved academic performance, we also put a strength in there because it made sense. Um when we were giving I like those the KPIs as we were targeting targeting certain things and
then we also put the second goal in which was aligned support systems to expand acceleration and extension opportunities for all students. So that's where we put in MTSS. Um I believe we put in special education
and things like that. And so we did use it. We used what you guys had all gathered as a guide and then we made it fit to what we >> Yeah, what I did What I just want to be cognizant of is not trying to like duplicate or pull out of thin air like
not recreating the wheel. >> did work that we already did. >> We didn't >> To make it simpler for you, but only if you again felt like we were heading in somewhat of the right direction not in terms of sheer scale, but um so I'm just wondering maybe if you if
you have the um the version of the draft that we shared with you if you even wanted to sort of at least pull out of those of the seven pillars in the drafts that were the drafts the draft goals that were in there like what really stands out to you and maybe even like your top
five that way we can work on our discussion to narrow if if needed if we feel like three is the right number or but just to know what's in what you think is important and in order of priority might be helpful. Other thing I'm honestly a little unsure about is the
annual versus multi-year approach cuz I think that does change a little bit of the dynamic of the base planning framework that we had and not not that we need to like throw it out the window, but it just becomes a little harder when you're thinking about it in terms of a one-year
I don't I don't know. When we did it before, it was not it was it was on multi-year, but it didn't it didn't change and it's still it was still simple. Even though it was multi-year, it was still
four pillars, four buckets of things, and then as the years went on, some of the some of the pieces under those changed per admin, but it was still
it it was it was intended to last for multiple years and it was worked on for last ginger, 5 years? At least it was already in place when you came. >> Right, it was. >> But it had just been done, I think maybe
a year before when you came. So, I don't know. I mean, I I'm still worried about too many. I'm still worried about too many. >> Mhm. >> Um and asking our asking asking a lot in
terms of all of these things to focus on. I I I still think for the first year and it's brand new, I still feel like we should narrow it down to three. And like Matt said, let the
let admin create the plan on how to get there. This is what we want. How are you going to get there? >> Mhm. So, I know we're not going to stop focusing on the others. They just wouldn't be
tracked as specifically as >> It's a lot of monitoring to do because that's the monitoring reports that she was getting was talking about that are making us not being >> a GP >> um a GP
and and and if you have too many monitoring reports, then you're asking your staff to just do a whole bunch of monitoring reports for you and then also we're spending a lot of time >> reviewing reports
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it's it's interesting now too to look at the rubric now kind of against a little bit of the framework of the strategic plan. So there's a lot of overlap. >> There is and that was one of my concerns was power has she's got to report on
these as well. >> Mhm. >> And so we've got a lot of reporting that's got to happen. Now as we work on rewriting this um for coming years then we can change them and align them a
little bit more and take some of the work out. >> Yeah. >> But for this coming year she's got these and whatever we decide together in terms of the the um the
how many ends or goals, whatever you want to call it. >> Could we create tier one and tier two What did you call them? goals I guess priorities We call them pillars, but if you had
tier one and tier two, tier one being uh the three that you listed, let's just say things are what is it? Raising agreement to academic safety and security and finances. That's tier one. Still have tier two which you have the other four, but right now we're focusing on these right now in the state wise.
We'll come back to these when we come back to these. >> I don't know if that's all that different from the framework that we've already kind of discussed which is less stabilize strengthen and grow right? It sort of prioritizes the higher level urgency. [clears throat] >> Well, we're putting three of them into the tier one right now this year. This
is what we're going to be asking about. We won't ask you about tier two unless something pops up. Tier two could have things that we haven't even asked them to stabilize yet. I don't want to lose track of the other four that >> Well, we don't want to lose track of any of them.
>> No. No. But I think just out of reasonable workload this year >> Yeah. >> if we can narrow it down to three and have them create their strategic plan, their their goals and their key performance indicators on the three and
again not necessarily having to bring do new ones. It may be that the ones that are their work but let them have and own it and then it it feels like a more reasonable workload. Does it feel more
like I mean cuz we can give them all kinds of stuff but it becomes it's it's it's like when I'm working with a patient. I could give them 20 exercises easy. They're not going to do 20 exercises. They can't. They don't have time in
their day. If we we will be much better and they will be much better and much more strategic if if the if the amount that they have to do is a doable thing. That's that's just that that's that's
the way that I'm looking at it. >> disagree. How do we do that and not lose track of them? Whatever those remaining four are or >> We don't take them away. We have maybe we have discussion at work sessions. You know, about some of them and are are
there how are them are probably ones we can >> That makes sense, right? If we look at like, you know, our rubric. Like cuz there is community engagement, right? >> Right. That could be a board or it could be a board. Well, it could be one of our board goals.
>> Right. And so we're still addressing the entire strategic plan, but we're not giving it to to the admin to do. And transparency. >> [clears throat] >> I'm trying to report to the board like >> Well, and as I think you said, it's not that they're not going to do those
things. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, the amount of time that it took to get the one piece nailed down and we've got until Sep- September
Where is she Where Where's the time? And where that the staff has so many other things to do, too. Just I that that >> What does that look like with those remaining four? I'm not I know I'm not >> What do you mean by remaining four, though? Can you clarify that?
>> We had seven pillars. >> Right. She's focusing on three. >> And she wants to Jen wants to focus on three. So, by saying you want to focus on three, I'm inferring you're not focusing on four. >> I think we're not monitoring and reporting
on them, but I I know we still have to write the goals, success metrics, like key initiatives, APIs for those four. So, I'm not >> But not by September. >> Right. And I'm not losing sight of them.
I'm just saying like I want to come to you with quality work that's not rushed. And I, you know, from my professional stance, those three that I mentioned are really important to start the year off. It doesn't mean
we wouldn't continue working throughout the year on them. It just means it, you know, we'd still be writing them and maybe not monitoring them or doing a report on all of them. You know, I mean >> I think too that, like, to expand on
that, those are like that doesn't Because we have [clears throat] the seven pillars, which are just the seven elements, really, of a healthy district, doesn't mean that every single one of them needs attention right like is as important or as urgent. So, I think what we're our task is to figure out what's
most important and most urgent. Be really specific about those three things, and then I think note that in order to have a healthy district, we have to give a level of attention to everything, but that if we're measuring our immediacy of our success and Ginger's performance, we're really
benchmarking that against those three or four things or whatever. >> That's what we said earlier. >> And give you the assurance that we're not going to come and evaluate you with seven down to KPIs. >> Well, we won't, because we're looking at the EEs EEs this year, because that's
what is the framework. Like >> And the ends will be part of it. Like the three pieces. >> Yeah. >> Will also be part of it. >> So, I will have the ends this and the three strategic >> The that would be the EEs. Are they >> Yeah, okay.
>> But ends are goals. >> Nice. Ends equals goals. >> Yeah, that's it. >> So, then I think the key initiatives are really the tactics, and that's all up to you and team. Yeah. >> I can see why it's reasonable to me. Now that I understand that you weren't
just shedding some of the work. >> No, it's just the timing of it. You know, I think that makes sense, because you need you need our academic piece, our safety piece, and our finance piece to be We need that to start the school year.
>> Right. The the the portion you know, continued education for educators that doesn't need to be taken care of in September. >> And enrollment like we're doing a lot right now. But
>> Yeah. >> And actually even if the state wise point >> See that one of the things that we could do to your point Carol of like the aligning the rubric is I think a lot of the rubric kind of maps within the pillars and if we did that then I think maybe even being a little bit more
thoughtful of the um the order and or the buckets of them like or maybe just taking another look at that might help us because that way we are continuously evaluating the work in the buckets of all the pillars. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we're trying to really move the needle,
right? We're just evaluating your effectiveness in in being a good steward of each of those pillars for the district, right? And yes, there might be more specific components to that of things you might be trying to improve or
advance, but um in terms of our level of focus of where we're trying to be successful, I think that makes sense. >> With the goals. >> And that that could be a good um goal for us for this next year is to work through this.
>> Right. Aligning the >> And aligning >> Yeah. >> Please. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's good to hear you say this. Oh, and you know, and and I mean along with all of that I just think as a board one of the
things that we need to be cognizant of is our Now I we don't always know our staff's workload, right? We don't. We don't know what they what they do with their day. >> I mean I think Davis has been playing
some computer game over here for that. I I don't know what he's talking about. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> But but I I see what time I get emails >> Mhm. >> from the staff.
Um and and that's that's not sustainable. It's not healthy and it's not sustainable. And we we know that we're in a bit of a a place right now where there's there's a lot going on.
But we have to we have to One of the things I think we have to evaluate in early fall is have we moved past this? >> Mhm. >> And and do we have staff that is able to do their workload within a reasonable time
frame that you and I would expect to be able, you know, to do our work loads when we're working. Um I just think I think that we have to be aware of that because there's nobody else that's going to be aware of that for I mean, that really does that really
does fall on us. And if we want them to be able to care for the the teachers and the teachers to be able to care for our kids we've got to make sure that that we're watching this team and
and making sure that they're staying good and healthy. But you do some of your best work at what? 8:00 at night? >> Yeah, same. >> [laughter] >> I'd say 8:00 to 5:00. Remember when somebody said they didn't send it out for approval and it come back all
changed and that's okay? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, 5:00. >> Do you feel good right now? Do you feel like you have what you need? >> Yes, I feel like I have a plan that I can work on and do quality
and bring something quality to you. And I might even be able to think too throughout the year of the rest the other four of what what is the right timing to be focusing on those. So. And this is fine. Like I feel good that there is a rubric here and there is a
timeline so that I know what to focus on also and what I'm going to be using tomorrow. >> And I do feel like there's a way we should incorporate if we check our strategy and looked at what the expectations or
limitations are within the rubric. And make one cohesive plan so it's not two totally separate things. I think there is maybe even a quick way to do that that when I get the rubric I will
work on and try to present and try and expedite that a little as well. >> What are your thoughts on the feedback around um board norms and chat capturing those in a written format. Not that we need to
like discuss it as nauseam but I think different from policy, right? Specified like norms and sort of like means of our means of operating. So I'm curious if that's something that we should give any thought to or write down. >> I'm curious how it's different than what
is in policy. >> There there are a lot of I feel like the policy has a lot of nuance. >> It does. >> Yeah, that's why I was just to you if you had specific ones that had >> yours. >> Mhm. >> I don't know. I should have read it. >> It's a job description.
>> Got to be just in the way we're supposed to communicate with each other and others. >> [snorts] >> Code of conduct. I mean, I think we should look at all of them as as we go through and make sure that they still all
make sense and But, is there something specific you had in mind with that question? >> I'm trying to think of some of the examples that you gave and maybe they are captured to a large degree in policy so far, but I just didn't want to leave without taking that into account if we
needed to take any action on that. >> I thought it's just probably just right away, but maybe as we review the policies if there's something >> I mean, the only thing I can think of that he talked about that we don't have in policy is the
the length of meetings. >> Yeah. >> You know that piece of it and I know that city council does a similar thing where if it's going if it's getting to a certain hour, they have to vote to continue. >> I I heard that on the town hall. I like that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um so, I don't I mean I think if we get to a place where we're getting a lot done in work sessions, >> You mean
>> I I think that our meetings should go a lot faster. And I think sometimes it's a it's a decision about if we have executive session and when we when we have that executive session, you know, what time I mean that is. Cuz I
think our really awful one was one that we put the executive session in the middle of the meeting. >> Yeah. And that was the one that took us so so very late at night. >> Right. So, you've had a couple that just >> Yeah. >> You know, we've had a lot of
discussion, but we do So, we have GP8. We just looked at it, but we might want to revisit it and add a clause in there about you know, meetings will go for 2 hours.
If we're going beyond that, we'll take a vote as we want to continue to add additional time or to table what's left. >> Um here's something I think I think we should do. I don't know that we want to take a a ton of time on it,
but I feel like at the board retreat, we might want to spend a teeny bit of time just just kind of doing a run through of all of the policies. Um and I I I would be I would be happy and
willing to do a quick summary of all of them and the reason behind, you know, the reason behind some of the essence of it. Um just so that we have a a baseline
because if if it's norms, I think it just helps for us to have a bit of a discussion together on each one of them that's not in a that that I mean, just a I think we could do it in less than an hour.
Of just running through all of them and make sure that we all understand what each of them is and how that means that we we we respond. Not trying to rewrite them, not trying to do anything, but these are the policies that we have right now
moving forward. Is there one I mean, we can take one out of cycle. if there's one that stands out that we need to change, we can always take it out of cycle and do it at the next meeting. But not not intending to figure out what we want to change about
it. Just this is >> I think that would be a good topic. I think honestly this whole it might be what we spend our retreat on and you know, including the the um the ends or the goals, whatever you want to >> the board goals.
>> But but taking a look at this whole binder, like let's just know what's in it, know why it's there, and we can at least earmark things that we want to look at first, pull out of order maybe this year because it sounds like one of our board
goals is probably just going to be reviewing and revising our board policy. If we if we have it sounds like decided we do want to be a governance board.
Policy board, governance policy, policy governance. Board of Ed, B of Ed. Um I do my best work in the morning. Um >> [laughter] >> Um >> I'm old school. >> To to look at it all and that's one of
our goals and we could spend, you know, a a good chunk of our retreat just reviewing all of it so at least we all have a baseline and then we can decide which ones we want to look at first. And maybe toss the review cycle out the window for this year till we can get it all uh to a place we
like it. And then move forward from there. >> I thought of two examples. I don't know if they're policy or norms, but I just want to >> Okay. >> throw them out there. The one was the notification procedure of like different types of uh situations, right?
Like uh does the board get called, does it get a text, does it get an email, depending on the nature of the situation and how that happens, right? It's almost like a little bit of a phone tree. >> I've been wondering about that, too. Just like when I call a snow day,
who like do I need to tell everyone in case someone calls you or you know, things like that when >> Yeah. >> if there's a safety and security concern. >> It might be worth considering the different types of scenarios. I don't know if there's a precedent for that and and I don't know if again if it's in board policy or if it's just a norm or
procedural thing. Um and the other thing, too, >> The other one that I mean it sounds like there's not really a good answer to is like the um responses to community inquiries. One I I feel like that one's really loose right now and I I want to make sure that like there's an effort of due diligence
on our part to like let the community know what they can expect if they reach out to us, but I and I also want to be clear, too, like sometimes if I don't see a response, don't even know, you know, whether something's been responded to and sometimes it may and sometimes it may not if it didn't merit a response. So, I don't know.
>> We we did have a We We did have a procedure for that. Um but I don't think it's in policy. So, it's just a >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean it was just a >> We probably should just make it a policy, though. If we If we're going to be a true policy
driven board, then there shouldn't be any like unwritten or even written but elsewhere rules. >> Do you think we'd be able to find Sorry. >> It's okay. >> Oh, no, I shouldn't What I was saying
was like we're getting ready to meet with Christina from CASB today. And we're we're the PG is driving the whole policy on it and so I didn't want to waste like we like not like if you guys are good to remain a PG at this point.
>> Yeah, that's >> We would just hate to spend the money for that. >> Oh, yeah, yeah. >> So, I would say maybe >> To be honest, I'm still unclear of exactly the line, but I feel like I understand where we need to go. >> look or we think we're going. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yes, I I will admit I am still not
100% sure where we would where we are at stake. >> Yeah, and I think I think traditional it even goes back a little bit more to more say and and in in in policy governance, we have
one employee and that's the superintendent and that's Crystal Blair. And I think in traditional models, they are a little bit more in the weeds in a lot of different areas.
>> I think that things got mixed up with the last um arguments and board house breeds. People with things >> The lines for Hoover, yes.
>> The majority of boards are policy governance boards. >> At least on paper. >> Yeah, whether they do it that way or not. >> But I did feel comfortable with having and sharing my question that if
there is a big item that we need support and we I feel very comfortable getting that [clears throat] support from the board as needed. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, in respect for time
we need an August board session. So, will be that our retreat? No, board session in August. >> Unless that's the retreat. >> Yeah. Do we need a facilitator for the retreat or do we want to just be this for the
retreat and it's just relax. >> Perhaps we should make that a question to ask me tomorrow after we're leading us through policy review if there's >> guide there. We feeling good? Anything else before we adjourn for the evening?
>> What's that? [laughter] >> Got it.