Call to order the city council regular meeting for the city of Wyoming, Minnesota, September 2nd, 2025. Let the record reflect we do have a quorum. Member Luger, member Schilling, member Joerger, and Mayor Iverson are present.
Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. All right, council, if we can uh just start with something a little bit different before the open forum. Who's here tonight for the open forum for um the reasonzoning? Raise your hand if you're here for the resoning. You're here for the resoning. Okay,
perfect. All right. So, um, council, what I wanted to talk about is actually, um, the reasoning, the process of the resoning, um, and a lot of the angst that we have gone through um, just with the planning commission. I want to start
by saying planning commission has done a really, really good job. They worked really hard. They had some really tough questions in front of them. And so I want to thank them for all their work. What I'd like to do tonight though is actually if you pulled Fred's report, um
what the the planning commission advisory commission did is basically put a pause. Y they put a pause on the resoning. Um, and I thought Fred's um, report was really good as he said that the commission paused to further reflect on
community feedback, ensure that any future considerations of zoning updates is deliberate and responsive to residents concerns. So, um, as a liaison, I've sat through, we've been doing this since April, something like that, April. And a lot of lot of
comments, a lot of residents have shared their concerns. Um, and I I believe that as this council has been council for nine years, ten years, we've really done a real go good job being able to listen to the concerns of our residents, right?
We've really taken thoughts and questions and comments through the whole nine or 10 years on what residents have to say, um, how it affects everyday life. And I think this is one of the
times that we as a council should really look at is this something at this time um that we want to go further with the resoning. My feedback on that based on all the comments based on um just a lot of
things within meetings that this is not the right time for us to do resoning and I don't even know when the right time will be. I don't think that it's right for Wyoming right now for the property owners, their concerns. Um, I think that
for me, um, and if you feel the same way, I'd like to just say we're not going to go forward with the resoning that it's time to just put that to bed. We're going to stop it right now and not go any forward, not go forward um, forward with it. So, um, comments about
that comments or questions? Uh my comments were this uh obviously I have had have the same thoughts on this and the biggest reason why um I was in favor of putting the brakes on it was essentially this doesn't stop anybody from if
someone sells their private property it can be changed in the zoning because of the comprehensive plan and our zoning maps. So if someone decides to sell their property the use is allowed under the comp plan. So there's really, in my opinion, no reason to do a sweeping
change of zoning when there's no request for it. And in the event that somebody does want to do something with their private property, they have that ability instead of us restricting the current private property to do or expand what their current use is. Let's leave it the
way it is. So then they can change or if anything sells, then they can do it and it's owned allowed that way. So that was my feeling on it and that's why I was overwhelmingly in favor of it because there was really no at this point. So, okay. Anyone else? I have no questions, but I'm in favor of
putting the brakes on it. Okay. Member Joerger, any questions? No, I was not in favor of reszoning from day one. Okay. All right. So, um, we I will make the motion. I think we have to have a motion on this. Am I correct
or not? No, we're just No motion. I Okay. There's nothing. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Okay. So, um, what we're directing, um, our employees to do and our commission chairs that we are not going to go
forward with reszoning. We can we can message that back to the planning commission that council has given that directive. Yeah. And to thank them for what they've done. The only other thing I want to address is the communication piece. So, there's been a lot of conversation that
um the city is not communicating and um I did ask the the city to provide who gets the mailing list and so they pulled it for me and there's 2,784
names on this list. There's also 600 of them that get emails. So, every quarter, every single person on this list does get a newsletter. And the reasoning was actually, Mr. Lman, you can help me on this. The reasoning was actually in the
April newsletter, whole front page. Correct. That's correct. Yeah. And we chose to go that way because there was over a thousand properties that could be affected by it. So, we chose to go that letter um in the newsletter because it goes to everybody.
So, um, I just wanted to address that, um, and let people know that that was a lot of mailings that went out and it was on the the very front page, the whole entire page. Um, so enough with that. Um, we will continue to go on with our regular meeting. So, um, we do have open
forum. Is there anybody here for open forum? Please come on out. State your name. And we don't have too many people. I can give you more than three minutes this time. I don't need much more than that. Um Lauren Oscar, Forest Boulevard, Wyoming. I just want to say thank thank you mayor
and council for not moving forward on zoning. Um you've made a lot of citizens and homeowners in in our community happy today. So thank thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. I wish more of them would have been here.
I hope so. Yeah. Well, let's hope um Facebook and social media will get a hold of it. And so I appreciate that. Thank you very much. All right, we're going to move on to approval of minutes. Um, number one, consider approving the minutes of the regular meeting of the Wyoming Minnesota
City Council for August 19th, 2025. If there are no questions or changes, do we have a motion to approve? So, we have a motion to approve by member Lucer. Do we have a second? Second. Second by member Schilling. All in favor? I opposed. So, approve. Approved.
Number two, consider approving the minutes of the work session of the Minnesota Um, city council for August 19th, 2025. Any um, if there are no questions or changes, do we have a motion to approve? So, motion to approve by member Luger. Do we have a second? Second.
Second by member Schilling. All in favor? I opposed. So moved. Consent agenda number three, four, five, six, seven, eight, and nine. Does anybody wish to pull anything from the consent agenda?
Oh, wait. No, sorry, wrong way. There's only two. Let's go three and four instead. How's that? Anybody wish to pull items three or four on the consent agenda? Seeing none, we need a motion to approve number three and number four. I'll make the first. Do we have a second?
Second. Second by member Luger. All in favor? I opposed. So approved. All right. Receipts of reports of officer boards, commissions, and department heads number five, six, seven, eight, and nine. Does anybody wish to pull a report for
further discussion? Seeing none, we'll move on to number 10, city of Wyoming mayor for a day contest 2025. Mr. McFarland, this is such a fun communication. Yeah. Uh, mayor and honorable members of the city council, this item is just to
inform you of the city's intent to once again hold a mayor for a day contest in 2025. Um, we held our inaugural contest last year in 2024 in which we asked school age children, which is fourth to sixth graders, uh, to create an essay based on a a city government related topic. Um, we'll once again be asking
those students to create an essay based on what they would do if they're mayor for a day. Um, when that deadline then is passed, we receive all these submissions. A panel at the city will review those essays and determine a winner for each grade. Um, those winners will receive a certificate of recognition which is signed by the mayor
and city administrator. Uh, the winning essay will be displayed here and at the Wyoming Public Library. Um, they'll be published on our city website and shared on our social media accounts. Um, they'll get public recognition during a uh, Wyoming City Council meeting. The winners will be invited here to receive those certificates and get a picture
with city council and then also a $25 gift card to a local Wyoming business which is to be determined at this point. Uh in conjunction with that then we do uh run this at the same time as the League of Minnesota League of Minnesota City's own contest. Um they ask the same question then every year uh it's
statewide so they select winners from the entire state. Um which is partially why we want to do one where we select winners here as well just because we want to make sure that students that take the time to do this have a chance to win no matter what. Um especially in a smaller pool of just Wyoming. Um, but if they are selected as winners um by League of Minnesota Cities, they'll get
a $100 prize or just I guess $100 is their prize uh and recognition in their Minnesota Cities magazine. Um so we have some basic rules and eligibility here um which is basically that they have to be fourth, fifth or sixth grader. Um in the city of Wyoming, they have to have
written the essay on their own and it should be 400 words or less. And then in terms of a proposed deadline, um we're going to open it up September 29th. So, we'll reach out to the school district and and get them on board. Um, deadline would be December 10th and then we have a few different dates there as we begin to review it and send them off to League
of Minnesota Cities at which point we'll announce our winner or we'll let them know it on January 5th and then they'd be at the January 20th city council meeting. And I just have a tentative date of January 31st as the day that LMC League of Minnesota cities will announce their winner. They kind of that that date moves a little bit so we just keep
them up to date as it goes. Um, so at this time we're just kind of seeking and it sounds like it but general consensus to continue doing this contest with the the city. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. If they mention my name, do they get an added point on there at all? I think last year was kind of really fun to listen. They had some really great ideas. Yeah, it's really fun to see what kids
think about too in terms of government and their understanding and what ideas they have. So yeah, it's a lot of fun. Any um comments or questions from So they can't use AI, right? No, we'll try to make sure they can't. You'll know. You'll know. middle school
teacher. I promise you'll know. You'll know. All right. Well, we're very excited about that. So, thank you very much. Number 11. I'm probably just as excited about this one. City of Wyoming name the plow contest 2025. Mr. Reeves, are you going to be talking about this new exciting contest? Yes, I am.
Good. Mayor and uh honorable council. Uh we took delivery of a brand new Western Star snowplow truck earlier this season and uh we were looking for an opportunity to engage with the public and name the snowplow events uh bring the community together especially our
youth um to have interest in plowing and equipment and uh we'd like to offer the opportunity to learn about our operation as well as safety around um building snow piles and stuff like that at the end of the driveway and try to keep kids safe. Um, so we thought this would be a
fun thing to do. Um, we want to kick it off uh at stage coach day with in-person voting. Um, and then on the following Monday, some online submissions um will be uh accepted and then we'll close the contest uh at the end of September and
we will work with city hall public works. We'll narrow down the submissions to our top 10 and then move into um announcing through the city website and our social media outlets to find out the public's um top 10 and then narrow it
down from there. We will work with uh city hall again and our public works staff for the uh successful entry to uh take a picture with the plow and potentially go for a ride in the plow. Um then we'll reveal in early December um in our newsletter and then on the
website and our social media who the winner was. So then the truck will be displayed with the sign or with the decal with the name on it for the season. And then uh provided everything goes well, we'd like to repeat this again next year. We've got some um contest rules um submission character
totals and stuff like that and what uh could potentially not be allowed as far as profanity and things like that. Yep. Um, so we're excited about it and we hope that uh yourself and council is as well and could support this. Is it any age or are you just specifically with kids or is it
uh Great question. So, we're going to uh definitely work with the elementary schools that serve Wyoming residents. Um, but it is going to be open to anybody, but that's a component of it for us is to be able to uh reach the the children. Awesome. Okay, that sounds great. And
then um do we you're doing a decal once we name it on the plow itself and who on on the dump body. So typically when you see these uh e whether it's mindot or a county um it'll be on the dump box on the back. Okay. So our the truck is has a silver box so
the decal will be in black. Okay. Great. Any questions from council? None. All right. We'll move on to new business number 12 um to consider resolution 25988. a resolution approving an amendment to the comprehensive plan land use map for certain properties in
section 8. Basically, that's just a text fixing a text. Correct, Mr. Lynwood on that? Yes, mayor. So, thank you. Um, this is just a comprehensive plan land use map amendment. So, I know we've talked a lot about zoning, but this is not anything to do with the zoning map. This is
simply um our comp our current comp plan. So essentially it was identified when the planning commission was doing the work through the zoning that there was um a a conflict in the text and the actual land use map. So um the background on this is essentially um the
planning commission recommended this to move forward to move to the area. The parcels included here there are 28 different properties that that was not identified as mixed use um appropriately within the map. It said it in the text of the comp plan but not on the map. So,
at the uh planning commission has made a recommendation to the city council to move forward um changing this to like I said from industrial to mixeduse to match have the text and the map match each other. Um by statute, this does require a four-fifth vote with city council. Um even though you are short
one individual tonight, it would still take four of you um to move forward with this if you um all agree to want to proceed with that designation change. Okay. So, council, what I'm going to recommend on this, because I think it's super important that we have a full body
here um to actually make this decision, um I'd like to consider that we table this or make a motion to table this um until would would you suggest a date are next meeting or I don't have any information that we'll have any council members gone at the
next meeting. So, I would assume we'll have a full aotment. Okay. So, I feel it's important that all five of us are here in order to vote on this. So I'd like to make a motion to table it to the next meeting. Second. We have a second. All in favor? I opposed. So approved to the next
table. Number 13 to consider resolution 25989, a resolution approving a conditional use permit for Pinehaven Farms Haunted Hayride located at 28186 Kettle River Boulevard. Miss Linquist,
you're going to be doing the presentation. Yep. Thank you. Thank you, mayor, members of the council. Um, this is a fairly lengthy packet. I'm gonna, um, try to kind of run through some of the details because it is the first time
that the before the council. Uh, this item was before the planning commission uh, on three different occasions. first on June 10th, then August 12th, um where they were continued with the intention uh that the commission was hoping that
the staff and the applicant would be able to resolve some of the issues related to some of the recommended conditions of approval. And then most recently on the 26th, uh the planning commission did recommend approval with the conditions that are in the the most
uh top packet that you received um as compared to the other items that you also had. So I'm going to just start with uh this is a conditional use permit specifically for outdoor recreational uses. The property currently has a
permit that was granted in 2004, but we recognize that there are issues associated with the operations from the 2004 permit. Specifically, condition number two and six, which talks about not creating excessive demand on
infrastructure and public facilities as well as not um impacting the neighborhood. Uh the city for some time has received complaints from the immediate neighborhood primarily related to traffic and um how uh the cars are
stacking up on the public road making it difficult for them to get out and access their own properties as well as things like dust and noise associated with the gravel road. I think many of you are aware of this site in particular. It's
uh got um being accessed from public Kettle River and then ultimately after uh heading north, it does turn into a private road. And so um we're really talking primarily about that public road
section. That's the the part where other property owners are most affected and those are the other residents in the community. So when we talked to to them initially, the application indicated the items that are before you. So, there's the three
existing um events that are the primary events that we're talking about. Most of the complaints are associated with this these fall activities. And you'll see there's the Pinehaven Farm fall festival and pumpkin patch, uh hayride and
haunted house, and the great pumpkin trail. Um, additionally they had the applicant had talked about uh exploring additional holiday events uh primarily from Thanksgiving to New Year's and then New Year's to March. Uh those aren't
part of this initial uh cup before you but the idea of them coming forward is also trying to get everything aligned in terms of the city's concerned but also the operations for the applicant. So, as I mentioned, we think that the
current approval is out of compliance with the 2004, primarily dealing with the traffic volume, emergency vehicle access, accessibility for existing residents, street maintenance and cost, nuisance concern, including dust. You'll
see the two photos on the screen. These were provided by um adjoining neighbors, the dust from the gravel road and then you can also see the the large amount of vehicles on the the public roadway.
Taking a step back, this parcel is about 165 acres and there's four tax parcels in total. The applicant has indicated that they have about 100 1,800 striped parking stalls. They don't um it's not a paved area, but they use a
system on the um the turf to um allocate the parking stalls. And again, the access is southeast access from Kettle River Boulevard from East Viking Boulevard. Unfortunately, given the topography of the area and the land
forms, there isn't a way to get another access, which is really the the key um issue is if we had a secondary access Obviously, that would alleviate a lot of the concerns, but there's just an inability to be able to do that. Um, as
noted, the uh property is zoned agriculture and that's allowed as a conditional use this recreational. I wanted to briefly go over these points that the applicant had made in their application and obviously they're here tonight. So, if you want more detail,
um, you know, obviously you have the opportunity to ask them. They provided quite a bit of information for us when we discussed these various issues. Again, primarily traffic and that is in part because they use a lot of um uh
electronic ticketing. So people um reserve ahead of time and that provides a lot of good information for them. So they noted for example that the farm festival um their their customers are there anywhere from 3 to six hours and then the the operating open times are 10
to 7. So a little bit um ends a little bit earlier in the day and they are open from August to November. We've got the haunted hay ride with the haunted house. People attend that about an hour and 3/4 to two hours. variable schedule because
it has to deal with dusk to midnight. So, um obviously earlier in the start of the the process it'll be a little later and then ultimately um gets darker earlier later um in the pro in the period operating and they're open from
September to mid November. And then the pumpkin trail which is a new um event that they have added. People are there about an hour and a half. It closes an hour before the haunted hay ride and that also operates from September to
November. The applicant also indicated that their school field trips. Those are primarily May and July and don't seem to be um of any real issue associated with the operational concerns that we've heard. They also again mentioned that
they were looking at other opportunities with other events during other portions of the of the season or the year. And that again is one of the reasons why the staff feels very strongly that we need to itemize and understand the traffic
impacts associated with operating this business. They were also provided us quite a bit of information about estimated attendance. And so you can see on the screen um these average daily of you
know the fall festival 3,000 with a peak attendance of 64. Um, you've got the hayride of 2870 with a peak of 55,600. You got the trail at 1600 with a peak attendance of 3,200.
However, that is a fairly new event. And so, um, I I think most likely they will be successful in in that process also. And as you can see the numbers on the walkups. And so again, part of that um understanding about the operations is
that uh reserving and so the the walk up um number if it's if it's decreased then obviously we have a better handle on on the attendance and who participating. And then of course all of this translates into uh traffic estimated
traffic. And so we did agree with the traffic consultant that the applicant had used in terms of there's certainly um shared trips. Uh a lot of people do not go individually in their cars. And so we talked about um average daily
trips uh for approximately you know for the different activities with the peak and then the average and and the situation is it's difficult to know some of these people are
overlapping in their activities but not all and some of them you know is additive and so it is a little difficult to really get a clear picture which is one of the reasons why we have recommended doing a um traffic study
which will be able to get real traffic counts in the 2025 operating time period. That will allow us to get a better understanding of the overlap of these uses and then obviously um numbers
that will help us in the future to understand better the potential impacts on the roadway as well as the neighborhood. So, we've been talking for some time about this traffic operational plan which the um applicants consultant did
submit in August of 10th of this year and there was some review by the various entities engineer public works public safety and at this point um we feel that it's a reasonable operational plan so long as obviously um all of the
components can be implemented in a satisfactory manner and that will allow um we think changes to the existing traffic pattern and one of the primary issues really is the inability to get
out well at East Viking Boulevard. Um and so we we feel as well as the traffic consultant that that intersection is causing some of the backup because people are queuing because they can't
get out in a safe and reasonable manner. So, a traffic control at that intersection does make some sense and that will be something that they plan on implementing in 2025 and then we can assess that as well as these other factors that we've talked about in the
conditions of approval. I think we're optimistic about the um application of those um new techniques and we think it will make a difference. The question is how much of a difference does that make
and how does that impact the the existing neighborhood? So, we have several recommendations that have been fairly consistent throughout the last several months. And again, part is that traffic control piece and the
traffic study. And part of that is also making some improvements on the site to allow for better um quicker movements into the site as well as quicker movements in terms of parking. and the applicants consulted has provided uh
quite a bit of information about those kinds of things. Um that hopefully will also alleviate some concerns but probably um as you know from the letter that was sent out from the applicant um there are two concerns that
they have noted. Now I will say um before the planning commission there were two concerns. They were two one was a different concern about the um the timing operation of the of the business. Uh the two 20 uh the 2004 cup required
um operating basically it could operate until midnight. Um the staff did um make a modification before the last planning commission meeting to allow for up to one o'clock on Fridays and Saturdays in
October, which is their busier time for the haunted house. Um which would be consistent with like liquor establishments in town. So it seemed like a reasonable um time period that would align with other activities the city's doing. Uh so we supported that.
Um and then the midnight time period is uh in the condition for the other activities as well as the other dates that aren't those dates. So the um in September and November or in um the uh
non Friday Saturday days and that additionally we um more clearly spelled out about um reduction in noise at midnight particularly um if there's any bands or those types of things that
those would cease um in part because our view is that uh that last goound at the 12 to1 on. We don't want those people hanging around. I mean, the point is that that's kind of the last the last time through um and we want to give them that opportunity, but we want them in
and out and then obviously all customers should be gone either by the 12 or one time period and then you'll just have the the people cleaning up and that kind of thing. So, I think that will stagger some of the the traffic, but obviously um those are the same operating hours we
have now. So hopefully that'll be an improved situation. Um but now before the council uh the concern is about um one of the concerns the applicant had is the restriction on
the uh visitor attendance at this point. And so that's been a condition that's been um pretty consistent uh throughout the last several months. and that is um the staff's view is that we know we have a problem. We don't want
to increase the customer's count until we know that there's a problem has a solution that can resolve the concerns of the neighborhood. And so if the um these methods are uh satisfactory along
with um paving the road then um the applicant has the opportunity to come before the council at any time and request a modification to the C. We discussed quite a bit at the planning commission that the applicant is in the
advantageous position where they can come to the city and try to modify any of the conditions anytime they want to. The city however cannot modify the conditions unless there is a violation of the conditional use permit. So the
city's position is and staff's position is at this point we need to make sure that we have this tight enoughly written that everybody knows what the expectation is. We want the applicant to understand what the city's looking for.
We want the residents in the area to understand what the expectation is about the operating in the future because this is may be the last time that the city council has the opportunity to address this. So the other issue and um has been
consistent throughout and that really is the question about the paving of the road. We've talked about it quite a bit. Uh there's been a lot of public um input at the planning commission both from residents who are um impacted as well as
folks that are also in the area who think that it is overly burdensome. I think the staff's position is that while it is a seasonal business, it has more traffic on a gravel road than we would ever experience on a typical
gravel road. And if this was a traditional uh road, we would have required paving long before this because of the amount of traffic. Additionally, the staff is recommending that the
applicant pay for the public improvements very similar to other developments that need to pay for access to their subdivisions. So, if this project was not at the end
of that line, we would not be in the position of requiring the road to be paved. And so we feel it's very consistent with what we have done in other areas of development and we feel com comfortable and confident about that
recommendation. I understand that the applicant is concerned that it's an open-ended cost, but we also want to make sure that we're not committing the city's money to pay for any of the road. Um, certainly
developers often when we tell them they need to pave the road, they go to an engineer and they get a cost estimate. I think the applicant could certainly do that and come up with a reasonable amount so that they would understand what what kind of cost they're talking about. Um, at this point I'm not aware
they did and they apparently say that they don't know the cost. So, we um we don't feel comfortable staff making a recommendation that there's a cap because we don't want to tie the hands of the council that you'll have to
be spending city funds if for some reason something um you know that estimate is wrong. When we talked to the planning commission, we made the same comments and said really at this point that kind of conversation is a council issue because you're the ones that control the budget.
So I think that is um my presentation and a quick trip down um memory lane on the variety of conditions. Uh there have been a few that have been modified as we've gone along. Um for example, the
one about the road, we've been much more specific about timing and payment and process than um we certainly were in the beginning. But for the most part, um the intent of them has remained relatively
the same. And um I would say that this has really been a joint effort with uh public works, public safety, legal, everyone has has reviewed these and feels uh confident in um the request
that is before you. Thank you. Um we'll start with questions from um the council and we'll start with uh member Joerger. Okay. So the biggest sticking point is capping
your attendance and paying for the road, right? Yeah. Come on, please. Yes. Our our biggest uh concerns are um condition for of us financially paying
for the entirety of Boulevard and then also capping our attendance um which would cap our ability to raise funds to do that. Yeah, I have that's I do have questions about the capping part.
If we require the business to pay over a million dollars for the road, how do you tell him he can't grow his business to recoup his funds? But that's a question I do have. Um, so
is there any way of of getting around paving the road? I mean, for like when I see the one picture there with the washboard road, when the winter comes and the road freezes, would it freeze in that kind of
condition and be that way throughout their whole winter events? Council member Jagger. Yes, that would be correct. If we didn't perform uh maintenance before a hard freeze that would be stuck like that until we got a thaw and we're able to get back out
there and and repair it. Can you deal with the road without paving it? Can you mitigate the dust and whatnot without paving? Is there any way to do that? Uh I already know you're putting out a lot of calcium chloride to keep
dust down and whatnot. Is there any other solution? It's a arduous task to maintain a road that is uh engineered to handle under 400 vehicles a day that with the traffic volume that we see from the um consumers
that that visit the farm, which we want the business to be successful, right? Um, so we don't want to hinder that, but at the same time, um, to to put forth the resources and the labor hours that we have to put forth, um, just doesn't seem fair.
Uh, can you give me an estimate how much labor you would have to put in to maintain that road as a grapple road for all the events? Um, just a high level. On average, we're out there about 12 times for the fiveweek period that we're discussing. Um, council member.
Okay. So you're out there a lot. You concur? Absolutely. There is a condition number eight already states that we are on um we are responsible for reimbursing uh public works for those additional
gradings and um and also up to two calcium chloride um applications per year. Um and we don't have a problem with that with that condition. Okay. You know, I was trying to figure out how to get do this without paving the road, right? Y. Okay. So, let's say the road
is paved. I read in the reports that this is being paved to a rural design standard. Is that going to hold up to their traffic? I would defer to city engineer. Thank you.
Yes. Our rural design standard is actually just the meaning no curb and gutter. So, it would be uh currently just draining off of the roadway into the ditch section. And so that's what's referred to as rural section. And so it would be designed to a standard that would sustain and hold up to their
traffic volumes. Um with regard do you already know what the substrate is with that road? We don't know that. Correct. So we've done some high level estimates with some assumptions, but we haven't done any cing to identify what the subgrade is or what level of class 5 or what thickness
of class 5 is present there currently. and if it is uniform throughout or if it's slowly widened and we have less gravel on the edges. We just don't know any of that information. So, we are reluctant to provide a very firm number. Not to mention that we don't know what the bidding climate might be in two years from now, right? And so, I think,
you know, from city staff perspective um and speaking with Mr. Lynwood, I think this is, you know, something that would typically be borne by the applicant and not something that is shared or assessed to other property owners adjacent to the roadway. the the but for statement if
you will that it wouldn't require paving but for the level of traffic caused by the by the uh event and again I think Mr. Reeves stated here, I think we all want it to be successful and we're trying to find ways and hopefully we can find a way, but you know, all indications are, you know, there's
there's study after study that you can look online to determine when is it appropriate to pave a gravel roadway. and they range from 150 to 200 maybe 500 but the volumes that we're looking at here just by data that they've provided you know even on tier one in September
weekends is you know almost 2300 trips uh per day and again it's in and out right because it's a dead end right so we look at tier 2 where we're October weekdays is 2840 right this nowhere close to the 150 200 300 400 500
anywhere near that um you look at tier three uh 8160 trips per day. That's Highway 61 levels, right? Their their their peak day um is actually over 9,000. Again, that's just visitors, not staff, not any of those uh coming into to and fro. So, that's the concern that
we have. We don't we want to make sure that the road is successful for the business, but we also want to make sure it's it's fair to the property owners that live adjacent as well. And so, those are the things that along with the public works maintenance needs. And so, again, it's a condition that we have in there. somehow magically um we're we're
able to um maintain the roadway, keep it up without that, it wouldn't uh be forced upon, but we need to have we feel we need to have that in place uh at this point to make sure that we have some leverage in the future uh should it be required. Okay. So then if you don't know what the substrate, what the conditions are
underneath, how can you give a price for paving? We've made some assumptions on that and so we have not given a price and not to exceed price on that. If you noticed in the staff report, I don't believe we've included a price, but I have shared that we've provided a range early on like
800,000 to 1.2 million, I believe. And so, we've provided a range based on some assumptions. Again, um the applicant has has indicated that they would like to pursue funding. Of course, that would reduce the amount that they owe. We've talked about other factors that might
reduce that amount as well. We have an adjacent development that might realign the roadway. We're looking at all kinds of different options there. Um if they do that, you know, that would shorten that length as well. So there's a lot of variables that we just don't know. And so we kind of provided that range that that range, if you will, um from best
case scenario to what we felt at the time is maybe worst case scenario uh with that 800 to$ 1.2 million. Okay. now. All right, the road is going to be paved and and hopefully it'll be more than just throwing some asphalt on
the on the class 5. How long before we start seeing wear and tear and then when we start having to do routine maintenance, uh possible mill and overlay or reclamation or a future reconstruction. I'm assuming you'll be
in business that long, right? Um who's going to pay for it? I mean, I've seen instances where you say, "Well, if it wasn't for this business, the road wouldn't be wearing out so
fast." So, are we going to set do that or are we going to how are we going to do the uh subsequent maintenance and milling overlays and whatnot. So just like uh any development that would come in uh they're
responsible to build the roadways and then the city accept those roadways and then the city is responsible for ongoing maintenance. There may be a point when we get 30 years down the road that the road requires more than just your crack filling or maybe your your reclamate
product that we would apply to the roadway to keep it like a rejuvenator uh to keep the the pavement pliable and and move with our extreme temperatures that uh we would maybe get to a mill and overlay similar to what we see with these. And then there would be assessments just like every single assessment project but it wouldn't be
borne by the applicant like you would see here just like every other road. So once it's paved, the residents on the road would be paying 20 um what uh 20% of a millia or reclamation,
right? Okay. How long do you figure the road's going to uh stay survive before it starts needing work? So there's um before it would be a reconstruct. We always say 30 years. There will be ongoing maintenance um
perhaps a mill overlay. We we talk about a million overlay at year 20. Um and so those are all very fluid uh numbers, right? There's a lot of factors that go into that, but we'd expect the you know before we get to a reconstruction would be more along the lines of 30 years, right?
So does this satisfy your concern that the city is not going to come back and say you're putting too much traffic on the road, you should pay for more of the repairs, milling overlays and whatnot. I I sure I sure hope so. I sure hope so.
Okay. So, how many property owners are on that segment of Kettle River? Do you know half of them? Seven. Seven. How about 12 besides them?
I looked. You're talking houses like on kettle. No, I'm talking property owners that would be affected by a road paving like to be because our ass our assessment property for our assessment policy
rather for paving a gravel road is 100%. So if my math was right, we counted 12 other property owners plus you. So 13
My math fairly correct? Looks pretty correct. Okay. And I'm sure the number of units or will be determined later. But let's split the the price tag. Give
it an even 1 million. How much would an assessment be for every one of those property owners? Are you referring Are you I'm not Are you referring to I thought you you we're we're talking if there was assessments. You're talking after it was already
paved. You're talking I'm talking about before if the problem is paying for having Pinehaven pay for uh paving the road. What I'm trying to find out is if we used our regular road
p road road uh assessment policy and you have 13 property owners very probably varying units depending on sizes of their property. How much would each be assessed if our policy is 100%.
Approximately 77,000. That's if it was assessed between that. But that would not be the staff recommendation. I I I I understand that. What I'm trying to get at is there are some little people on your road and
I don't know. How do you feel about having them pay a $77,000 assessment? I I think that our neighbors wouldn't um wouldn't be excited for that. Um, if I if I can lay out a a possible solution
that we've we've thought of, obviously the the traffic on on Kettle River Boulevard is is a lot, right? It's a it's an incredible event. It's um it's really put Wyoming on the map and um it's incredible seeing the visitors come
into our community having such a great time. Um I think there are some solutions here. You know, being in business, I'm always looking for a win win scenario, right? It's it's never great if one person wins and one person
loses. And so I think there are some win-win wins that we haven't explored. Um we've gotten verbal commitments from our state level representative to try getting bonding or getting funding at
the state level. We we haven't been through a session yet, so we don't know how successful we can be at that. But I think that we should try that. Um, you know, the Minnesota's largest candy store, they got an overpass at no cost
to that business because they had traffic backing up onto 169. So, I I think that there's there's some things that we can look at to to help the residents, to help the city. I think
that hiring our traffic consultant um was a net positive coming from this whole experience and I think that we will see um that helping the traffic and helping the residents um along with helping the the
guests that are coming into the city. Um we we haven't put down calcium chloride in in several years. I know that public works has has put down a couple products. Last year was especially a really bad year. It was I I shouldn't say it was a bad year. It was a very dry
year. I think on record it was the driest October that we've ever been through, which makes dust a challenge, right? I mean, if any one of us lived on lived on Kettle River, that would be like, oh my god, look at all this dust. So, I think that collaborating between
public works and and ourselves, we've had a long-standing uh relationship where where we put water down on the road um on Boulevard to try and mitigate the dust as much as possible. Unfortunately, we s fell short of our our ideals last year with how dry it
was. We just couldn't keep keep up. But I think that I think that Superintendent Reeves will will back me up on on that that we have a great relationship in in working together to to mitigate um these issues. And so if we're if we're waiting
on data, let's let's pause condition four. Let's see if we can state funding. Let's put our best foot forward to make the road as possible as we possibly can as we move forward and try and try
and uh find funding for this. But saddling Pine Haven with the entire burden of of paying uh Kettle River Boulevard, I don't think it's I don't think it's reasonable. Um, and so I think if if somebody from the outside
perspective is looking in on this and they say, "Is this reasonable?" I think that there's some residents that are going to see a benefit if if Pine Haven is required to pay for the entirety of Kettle River. There's some residents that are going to see financial benefit from that. And I think that there's some
there's some conflict um conflict of interest there. Um, and so I think state level funding would be the best. It might be a long shot, but I think we have a I think we have due diligence to
try that and and then if we're absolutely not successful, let's come back to the table. Let's put this group back together and let's put our heads towards towards uh taking it to plan B. Are you suggesting that we then suspend
condition number four pending you getting state funds? I I'm I'm open to I'm open to anything that that creates a financially successful path forward and doesn't have this this
really large unknown financial implication tied to our to our business. It just it's a huge it's a huge unknown and and it's um it it could be incredibly detrimental to us, you know,
being able to to stay here. Are you aware that the city has been trying to get state funds for a public safety building for a number of years and basically has come up with goose egg? I I I am. I am. I'm I'm a very dedicated
person. So, I'm I'm hoping that uh that my past record can show that I can get things done or I can hopefully talk to people and get things done. And if and if we're not successful, then we have to come back here and and look at it. If if the traffic if our traffic plan that
we've uh that our consultant has brought forward isn't successful, we have to come back to the drawing board, right? It's we can't we can't just go along to get along. We we have to find solutions. Um so
my concern with the dust is that I've gone up uh 35 with a d through a dust cloud. Yeah. On the freeway. Yeah. On the northbound lanes. Yeah. So the dust is just getting all over. Uh is So staff, is there a way to put a
do not exceed amount on Pine Haven's contribution or we would not want to do that? Well, I think as you've heard from our um community planner, our city engineer, the difficulty is knowing what that number would be. Ultimately,
the city can put that condition and say this is, you know, they have to pay for it up to x amount of dollars and then the city would be on the hook for the rest. Exactly. Okay. You you could see where that might present a bit of a problem, too. Have
you even thought about explored the idea of putting in a parking ride like they do at the Renfest? Um, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, I think that I think that there's some strategies that we've laid out in our in
our traffic management plan that are getting us closer to solving the concerns of of our neighbors and um and community members. Uh, but I think that I think that that's certainly on the table. it might not be at the very very
top of the list. Uh but certainly convincing convincing customers to use those those facilities uh I think would be the the biggest hurdle uh moving forward. Okay. They do it at the Renfest because I mean
and you're using the same traffic absolutely traffic people. So you had just mentioned about being able to stay here. Where would you go? I you know there's there's a number of there's a number of places maybe maybe
out of state maybe into our friends in Wisconsin. Um I don't I don't know. Okay. I don't know. That's all I have at the moment. Um thank you. Okay.
How many when a night is sold out? Yeah. How many tickets sold is that? Are are we talking specifically for the haunted house? Um for the hayride for for the haunted house. Yeah. Okay. So early season because we have less
dark time period before that midnight cut off. Um a soldout night in the very beginning part of the season is probably right around 4,000. Okay. Where at the end of the season it's closer to 5,200. Okay. Because we get that extra hour
throughout the throughout the month. Okay. Um, and how many employees? I'm just I know it's in the in the documents here. How many between all three events? It's 500 seasonal staff. 500 seasonal staff. Okay.
You have brought I mean, you know, I used to take my kids to Pine Haven when they were really young. Um, they as they have gotten older, they have loved uh Dead End Hayide. Um, you have it. I think of when I first started bringing my kids there till now, it is vastly
different. You all have really successfully run a business that has continued to grow where you've been able to continue to hire folks and add attractions and for all ages, right? And I think that's great. Um, I just I guess
my concern is my concern is on the two conditions, the the resources that the city has for years put into maintaining Kettle River Boulevard. Um,
in 2022 when we were we had a work session at some point and our our superintendent of public works at that point made an estimate that per year city staff in terms of public works
resources it is it was about uh $19,000. If I multiply that over three years that's $57,000 that the taxpayers of Wyoming have paid for to maintain the road. Right. And like our engineers
said, but for the attractions there it I mean it's a 400 trip road, right? And we're looking at what if I look I mean throughout the entire season somewhere between 200,000 cars as a conservative estimate, right? Assuming that folks are
sharing like between the three I I I don't think it was 200,000 cars. Mark, do you do you have estimates on So if I look at if we So going back to Uh going back to potential vehicles,
like estimated vehicles, not attendance, but vehicles. If I add that all up and I multiply it by 42, right? For the whole season from September through uh November 1st. 42 days.
42 days, correct? Okay. We're we're open for I believe 33 days. Okay. A year. So if I take that and multip I mean it's clearly even if it were just 100,000 cars that's obviously a really huge that's that's a huge overage right I mean when I look at
these pictures of these roads and I it's a lot of like that would not be happening under ordinary circumstances if it just were those 12 13 property owners coming and going right y superintendent Reeves
I guess in terms of we no ballpark what it might cost in terms of like a a dollar amount. Um, when your staff is out working, you have given an estimate of you've told us approximately how many days you're there. I'm wondering how
many hours that takes and how many staff how many public works staff are out there. So, for a grading operation, excuse me, for a grading operation takes two employees roughly five hours a piece.
What is our total staff for public works? Uh we just uh hired a seventh uh member uh earlier this year. Okay, that is a disproportionate use of resources in terms of not just cost but time and labor on one road. Right. It it does it it does affect our daily
operation for the for those 5 weeks 33 days in the sense that we do have to maintain the streets, the wastewater, the water distribution system and our parks. Right. Um so yeah, it does have an impact on our department for those five weeks. Absolutely. Wyoming is a city of how many square feet? Miles.
Square miles. Sorry. Square feet. Wow. That's a lot. A lot. Approximately 23. Okay. All right. So, that's my my concern with the public works side of maintaining the road. Um, it is I'm going to be really really
transparent. I mean, as this operation has grown, and again, I I commend you on on your business model and your growth and what you know, uh, folks coming and going get out of this as as entertainment. Um, but as you've grown and as the numbers have increased and as
the ticket prices have increased and the employees have have increased, it is disappointing to me that this is just now when we're talking about like what Pinehaven's role is, a larger role in maintaining a road um that has businesses as well as uh as well as
homeowners on it, right? because I can't imagine that if I am working at the village in on any of those given nights, it's particularly easy on a the customer base or and just traffic getting in and out. Same thing for family pathways.
Same thing for for the vet. Could I respectfully add something in? The Village in loves us. Their busiest month is October. McDonald's loves us. Their busiest month is October. Holiday loves us. their busiest month is
October. We're an economic driver. So they where where somebody sees traffic, they see opportunity. And and so I think I think that we're a net positive for those for those businesses.
And I'm going to answer that with respectfully. I've heard from a handful of business owners who say the exact opposite that once there's been food trucks and things like that um that their business during that month where it was once really could have been very lucrative that it is no longer because folks are not wanting to get out of
line. They're wanting to go and they're wanting to get the food trucks, right? I mean, there's got to be some impetus for having having food there, right? So I think there's probably there's probably some who who share that your sentiment and I I definitely know that
there are others who have shared the opposite. So I guess you know the other thing that I look at too is is in the documentation here um it has been noted that
the cap isn't being that in the the CUP as as it was in 2004 your operating hours your last ticket sales operating hours are approximately the same. Yes. Am I interpreting that okay but your volume is vastly different right?
Yes, we've increased our our attendance. So, the cars coming out at, you know, after the last after the last slot are not the same as the as they were 20 years ago. No, we've we've done a we've done an
incredible job of our our busiest peak day. We actually saw back in 2017 2018 before we had aggressively implemented time ticketing. Um, and so we don't see we don't see the
crazy long lines that we do. We've leaned into technology and and done a really good job through dynamic ticket pricing to spread people out. Um, so we've been kind of pioneers in within our industry of of pushing that dynamic
ticket pricing so that instead of seeing incredibly incredibly high volume on on just Fridays and Saturdays that we've we've been able to spread out um the customer base over over more days and have a more consistent um number of
customers coming in and and that's been that's been key to our our growth. we would have never been able to to get where we are today um if we hadn't have implemented the time ticketing that's that's really incentivized our customers to come on those Tuesdays or those
Wednesdays um because Friday and Saturday are the king of h or king of entertainment that's when people want to come and so without without those safeguards I I would fear that we would see 20,000 people show up wanting to get
into an attraction that just can't handle crowds like that, right? And I think the dynamic ticketing is great. I think ultimately we're looking at the same amount of of dust and and maintenance road needs and and volume coming in and out, right? Um,
Chief Bower, what happens when there is a medical emergency somewhere between East Viking down Kettle River Boulevard on Saturday night in October?
Uh well, they do in in full discussion here that that there is some staff on site that does address some immediate issues that would come up and Pinehaven does have staff that is uh um does have some initial response. Um
vehicle response is difficult. I mean, and we've looked at that for the last couple years. We've been petitioned to the uh DOT to see if we could have a um an additional exit off 35 or at least a gravel road
put in that we could access and it was denied. Um it is a difficult location to access. Um I'd say fortunately we just haven't had a really significant issue that's come up that's required that um type of response. So, we're as of right
now, you know, it's we've been very fortunate. Um, but that is the concern. How do we how do we and we we have not been able to come up with a solution at this point for what that looks like other than trying to we have do have an officer there during the busiest times. They hire us to have an officer there. Um, so we we've done what we can up to
this point. Okay. Um, I think that's all the questions I have. Thank you. Um, member Silly, every single question has been asked. So, if I'm looking at this correctly, we
have a deadline of September 1st, 2027 for the road to be paved. Correct? So, that's two years from now essentially. And that's the biggest sticking point if I'm not mistaken because it's the largest cost of these conditions.
That's the part that obviously as a council member, as a community member, all four of my children have gone there. We've gone there. My youngest still goes there with all of his friends. Um it is something that they widely attend. I mean, my wife and I personally, we haven't since we brought the kids when
they were little, but that was that was a few years ago. So, um that's the biggest problem with this again. And we're we're looking at a million plus. I mean, if I just to ballpark this stretch of road. How long is it? How much is it an average per foot for Batuminous?
That's the biggest problem with this. And we have a two-year deadline on this, you know, and he has stated that, you know, he's going to reach out to legislators. If not, you've already done so. Uh I'm not saying it's impossible. Um the Renaissance did the same thing.
They essentially redirected their traffic off of 169 through different exiting. they had to do the same exact thing. I also the Renaissance I do attend uh for the pure adult silliness. But um that's my
biggest all the other questions have been asked. The biggest problem I have is again you know it's been stated a developer comes in if they were going to develop that we'd require that. but you're already an existing business that's been there for years, you know. So, that's a it's a sticking point for
me, but it's also a condition that's been held on to pretty heavily through the planning commission. Um, I love our planning commission. I find them very educated. They're very good at what they do. They're a lot smarter than I am when it comes to this stuff. Um, I know
buildings, they know zoning. So, um, that's my biggest hangup is how do we stick it to them in this condition right now? You know, is there any way for us to say it's a tough one. That's I I just don't
know how to overcome that hurdle because it is your business. It's creating the problem. It's what put you guys back in front of us again because of your growth. You're expanding and it's amazing and I love it. You know, everybody I know comes up here to do your events. So,
my biggest problem with it is is how do we pay for the cost of the road without sticking you with a million dollar plus price tag? But again, your business is what's causing that demand for that price tag. So,
uh looking at two years, um you know, there's a lot of other things that need to be done in here. traffic study. I do not like the idea of capping. That's the one I don't I don't mind the hours. I don't mind any of those things, but
there's got to be some way for us to figure We got a two-year deadline on this is what I'm getting at. Is there a way for us to approve this and revisit it if the cost comes back, you know, 1.7 million, 1.3 million, 1.5, 800,000? I
don't know. I don't know the answer to that. So, I mean, is that something we can do? I guess that would be a question for Mr. Lunan. I mean, could we approve this as written with conditions and then with a revisit after we know actual costs and
Yeah. So, as director Linquist said, the conditional use permit is this is the city's shot to impose the conditions. Yeah. Then if they're approved and if the applicant if they adhere to all the conditions, city can't do anything, right?
Um as long as they're in compliance with it. Applicant could certainly come back and ask the city to amend it. The city can consider it then, but the city doesn't have any authority to change it unless they are in violation of the cup. Right. That being said, what you're saying
essentially the condition as it's written right now is is the recommendation of staff is they've got to have it paid by September 1st, 2027. If they don't, they haven't met the condition, council has the ability then to revoke the cup or go through what we're going through now based on the 2004 and say, "Let's amend it and change
it." But at that point, if they haven't met that condition, theoretically, they're in violation. Council has the opportunity to then revoke or amend or whatever it sees fit. question then. So then, but let's say you get an engineer as Miss
Linquist suggests and figure out what to, you know, how much it's going to cost to pave the road. You find out what the substrate and all that is. Can he then come back and say, "Hi there. This is what my engineer says. Can we amend this that you know we Pine
Haven will pay 800,000 if if it comes in cheaper? He the yeah they absolutely would have the right to come back and ask the council to amend it council but we but this is our only shot and we're our hands are kind of tied because we can't do anything after this unless
they violate. Exactly. So they they have the control to come and say we want to amend this, we want to change this. As long as they're compliant, we don't have any control over it as if they're in compliance with what we approve uh in the cup. Can we Is anybody interested in taking
off the cap as a compromise for these guys? Okay. Just asking. Yeah. And and I haven't had a chance to speak yet, so I'm going to ask some questions. Um I'll pause my questions for now. I gota noodle. Yeah. Okay. So, um I'm going to ask this of
Miss Linquist and also um city attorney Tomlin um Lunan. One of the reasons why we're putting that cap on, if I'm understanding this correctly, is because it gives a chance to receive data to make sure that the data is correct that
we've got and going forward. Am I correct on that? It's data driven to pause to to put that cap on. Mayor, that's correct. Um, it's so that we can do the traffic study this fall, but also at this point we have residents
that are negatively So we don't want them to increase their their customer base again until we are sure that we have solutions that will actually address some of the concerns. Okay. Uh Mr. Hastings, do you understand
that part of it? Why we need to do that? I understand the staff's um viewpoint. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Um Mr. Lunan, there is an attachment in here stating that um the entity is actually looking at
possible hiring attorney or or counsel on that. So my question to our staff is um normally you don't recommend anything unless it's vetted um pretty pretty highly vetted in terms of what we can
and cannot do. Is that correct? Correct. So, um we've had many discussions regarding the conditions and obviously many of those discussions focus specifically on the pavement issue. Um council is entitled based on
the factual record to impose reasonable conditions that bear a nexus or relation to the adverse impacts of the use. And specifically, the city code provides that council um is allowed to provide
conditions it deems necessary to protect the public interest. And yes, this is an extreme condition. Um but it's not something that's unheard of that you would require an applicant um to pave a road. And it's a situation when we look
at the impacts and I understand Mr. Hastings position. I know he's talked to staff. We've looked at different options and how can this adverse impact be mitigated and time and time council or sorry staff came back to the the only true way to mitigate it is to go forward
with the with the pavement and so the condition bears that relation to the adverse impact and that's why staff feels it's an appropriate condition based on the um based on the proposed use. Thank you. Mr. Hastings, did you realize
that in did you ever read the 2004 conditional use permit? Did you ever read it? I I have read through it, but it's been it's been several months. Okay. So, you were aware during the last however many years that you were out of compliance with the conditional use
permit in 2020 2004. Specifically, which which condition? Um, operation time. Operation time. I I believe we were closed at midnight. the the guests were uh getting through the attraction. So, you're still open.
Is you closed the ticket price. You closed the ticket. We we closed the ticket office. Yeah. But you were still open, right? Because you still had people going through your attraction. They were still there. So, if if a store was supposed to close at 10, that's their closing time
is 10. Pretty much everybody is out at 10 o'clock. Correct. So, would that not also apply to your event? Um, I figured that if we were closed, not letting any new customers in, that uh that we were closed at midnight.
Did you ever come to the city and ask them any of those questions about the CUP from 2004? I I don't recall. Okay. Um, Chief Howard, how many approximately are we saying per night? Your your busiest night, how many
people? 5,000, 10,000? 5,000. It's a little higher than that because I listened to a podcast that you did in 2023. Okay. So, if we have 5,000 people there and there is one police officer.
Okay. That's a lot for one police officer, is that pretty average to have one officer to try to contain or an issue when there's 5,000 people there plus the 500 people you said for employees uh throughout the throughout all three
events. So, not at one time. Okay. But we're talking roughly almost 6,000 people basically, right? The the 500 staff is over multiple shifts because we won't work the same person um uh over multiple shifts. So, maybe maybe
upwards of 200 staff um at any one given time. So, we can cover all those shifts. Okay. So, Chief B, my question is having one paid officer there and approximately we'll go 5,200 people
How is that? Just a minute, please. It's two officers on our busy nights. Chief Bower, is there two or one? Because you said you said one. There are nights where it's two as well. Yes. Okay. Crowd control for that many people for two officers. How does that work? Well, they have security staff on site.
Um and then our on duty officers and surrounding uh agencies, Shagro County Sheriff's Office, Lakes Area um would also respond. Force Lake PD would also respond to to assist. So, how they would respond then, and I'm imagining this, is that they're going to try to get their
cars down there on a road that's already backed up, should there need to be assistance from other agencies, they're going to drive their cars, their squad cars. Yes. Okay. So, there's going to be kind of an issue to try to get I don't pick how many cars, but trying to get down that
road if there's an incident that needs more than the two officers that could be there. Correct. that. Well, yeah, we're making a lot of assumptions here that I don't want to get into necessarily. So, I um I think that I want to be careful about what what I'm
making a statement about is that it depends on the amount of traffic on the road. There's a lot of whatifs here. Yeah. Um but yes, we would ideally like to have those surrounding agencies be able to respond and effectively resolve whatever issue does come up. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Hastings. Um, do
you believe that the residents that came up and and spoke and I'm specifically thinking of the young girl who is in 10th grade and she came up and spoke about how this really affects her social life in September and October and part of November because her friends can't
get in and she can't get out and do things. Do you remember that? I I I do remember that. Okay. How do you feel about that? I I think I think there's a very strong distinction between can't and and won't. Um, obviously we impact our neighbors.
Absolutely. I believe that the traffic mitigation uh techniques that we're going to be implementing this season with having a light at the corner of Kettle River Boulevard and East Viking is is going to solve the vast majority
of of the traffic related issues. And and I hope that that um that 14-year-old uh will be able to more easily get out of of Kettle River or get or get in uh because of that. I I really do think
that that intersection is the bulk of our challenge, right? Um it's it's very very difficult to take a lefthand turn off of Kettle River Boulevard onto East Viking even even
during the middle of the day. It's a very tricky intersection and I believe that that that intersection and it's it's laid out in our uh event traffic management plan. That's our focus and where we are hopefully putting the vast
majority of our resources because I think that's going to have the biggest positive effect to our our local community. Um, I think that it'll flush cars off of Kettle River Boulevard and get get those cars to where they're going to help improve for emergency
access. And um so you then would be in favor of what Miss Linquist is stating that you're hoping that these changes are going to happen. But if we don't know for sure
how those changes are going to impact because this would be the first year. Why would we not want to cap it so we can understand the flow how your traffic management is working? Why would you not
why would you not then want data? Because I know seen a lot of your your um your YouTubes and I know that you do there's a lot of visitors come in and you've done a great job and safety
should always be that number one factor. Correct. Absolutely. Okay. And during the last many years that you have done this as a business owner, you do plan for the next season. You do plan for how many people are coming in in the things that you need. Correct. Absolutely.
So then why would this not be any different to try to plan for and work out the details so going forward you'll be more successful in the coming years. I I don't quite understand your question. Yeah, data it's all about data, right?
Business and I'm all about data. I am a data data fact over feeling. So what I'm trying to get at is the capping. Let's let's talk about the capping issue first. All we're asking all we're asking is the first year 20 from 2024 to 2025
is to look at the data coming through and the changes that have been proposed that you have agreed upon. Right. So that's the reason why we're doing that. Can you understand that part of it? I'm I'm con I'm confused by the question because I think that the way that the conditions are written it's not just a
cap for one year. It's a It's a cap in the cup. So, we are we aren't allowed to grow. Miss Linquist, can you That's what that was going to be my question because when I read it, it because I my understanding is it's for a year to look at and I could be as you
guys are all working this through the verbiage. Is it for the one year so we can check on the data and make sure that we are working through the safety? Um, mayor, council members, just a minute, please.
So, it specifically is that we're capping it at this point based on the 2024 data and upon paving and expansion of the road provided and and the other remaining conditions, the property owner may request the city
amend the cup to an allow an increase in visitors, which may be granted by approval by the city. Does that make sense then? So it's not an automatic lift of the cap, but obviously if they're successful in implementing they can come back cap.
Just to add is our concern is we don't want to re remove a cap. They do these all these things and we end up exactly where we are. Yeah. I mean so we need to understand what how it's all working. Does that make sense? I I I think I
completely understand that it's a it's a permanent cap until we come back forth and apply for an amendment to the C. So once once the roads paid that I was going to say then that's based on the condition of the road being
done and the traffic changing. Yep. So so if I'm understanding that correctly, we can't even apply for the removal of the cap until the paving has proceeded. Correct. Okay. Just so that I'm understanding. Yep. Correct. Okay. Um, when you
mentioned the candy store on Highway 169, that's actually a highway and not a dead end. So, when they put that bridge in for the state, they were actually looking at all the events that were going on there, not just the candy store. So, it's a little bit different. I just wanted to point that out than your situation that you have um going
on. So, um, are you aware of the Facebook posts and and, um, the visitors that have blasted the road and the comments coming back from your staff? Is that the city's to blame for that? Are you aware of those comments?
I there's there's lots of online comments. I don't read all of them, but are you aware that it comes back and it's blamed for the city? I'm I'm I'm not aware of of the city being blamed for the for the condition of the road. There were several last year, just so you know that we got
blamed for that. Um, I do know that rain days, Mr. Reeves, when it's raining and slushy, um, you guys are called to go out there, right? When it's really bad and in addition to the times that you're already going out there the 12 times or whatever.
Yes. After a rain event, there is a that we do need to go out depending on the severity of it and and the rest of it. But yes. Okay. So, how do you do that when there's cars on the road? Do you have to wait until the evening or when they're done and then your staff is on overtime?
We try to get an early start the next day is what we generally do, but you also have to wait to see that conditions permit. So, it's it we do the best we can to tackle it um with the information that we have at the time. Okay. Thank you. All right. Um
I think that is all of my questions for now. Can I ask one more question? Is there a reason that you haven't gotten an estimate for what it would cost to to pave the road? I I guess I thought that we would be able to come up with some sort of
arrangement whether whether we push back the the deadline. Um I I know that Mark did give give a high level high level estimate. Um, but I believe that it's written in the in the condition that we
we can't hire somebody to pave pave the road that it would have to go 100% through the city. Um, so we were we were trying to explore that option of getting a a real quote from the city. Um, so we haven't we haven't gone out and gotten
our own quote because I didn't think that that was even an option. Is it an option? So I think the question is to get an estimate from your engineer but it would be required to be a public.
Thanks for asking that question. That brings up a couple couple other questions. Mr. Hastings, do you understand what bonding is? What the city does when they have to bond for roads? Do you understand what that means? I am I'm open for coaching. So, if Okay. I I I love to get an education.
Yeah. So, when we um plan for a road and we have to go and we have to actually borrow money and then that borrowed money gets spread um 20% of it the residents pay. the other 80% it's spread around um all of the residents if you
will. Okay. So the question becomes if the city the city were to bond take on this road for I'm using easy math a million dollars right that means that all of the residents in the city of Wyoming would
then be paying for your business and the people to come to the the haunted hay ride. Does that make sense? I I understand that concept. Okay. So, if you were the outside looking in, you were a resident, somebody else owned this hayride, you
would be fine with paying for a business's road. Um, I think that there's a it's it's not it's not a private road. It's a it's a city road. Um, but I but I understand your logic because there's only one business at the end of this road that
you're assigning um 100% of the value to to the business at the end of of the the road even though it is a city city road and so cities um take on debt and we also have ratings based on that debt and
we have a very good rating. What would happen if if to what you're suggesting that the city and the and the residents pay for that road and something happens to your business and it shuts down and
now we're dealt with just a road and everybody paying for it but your business. So is that something you you can understand? Mayor, I don't think I'm advocating that the city pay to pave pave Kettle River Boulevard
and you're what are you advocating for then? Just lay it out for us your what you're trying to do. I'm advocating to find a a workable solution until we can find funding at the state level. A workable solution meaning dust mitigation and it's already
laid out in in condition eight that we have to pay for calcium chloride. of dust mitigation and we also have to pay for extra grading um along the way in until we can secure funding that that is the workable workable solution that if
if we're on the hook in condition 8 for calcium chloride and for extra road maintenance then it is no cost to to the residents. We're we're that's already in condition eight. So that's that's where I'm very concerned or very confused is
because I feel like the city is protected with condition 8 and we've we've accepted that that is a reasonable condition. Um and so I I think that there's a workable plan there. Obviously it's not ideal. There's there's rain
events that create extra extra grading, but would that not just be assessed to to us in that bill that we pay the city for extra public works at the end of our season? I don't know if you I'm assuming you pay that, right? I'm assuming you pay that, but what if you don't? Then we're on the
hook for that, right? So, you have to understand that we have a stake in the game as well. All the residents do, right? All the residents have a stake in that. How many years would you think is is long enough to wait to see if other funding comes in?
Um I I feel like you give it two years and and if other funding isn't isn't available then you can then you can start looking at um at what the what the other options would be. Okay. So we are giving you two years now, right?
you're giving us two years to a hard to a hard deadline where if if we don't get it paved in those two years. So if we spend those two years exploring funding at the state level and you know putting that as our priority,
how do we comply with the condition if we've spent two years doing that? you can can you understand the where it's like are we are we moving right forward towards towards paying to pave the road but simultaneously trying to get funding
are we trying to get funding after the fact I don't I I feel like there should be a longer period of time um to get to see if we can get funding if we can't that that extra time that would be given
maybe four maybe five years would give the business the time to start bankrolling this this funding. That would be the single largest expenditure that our business has ever seen. My grandparents
bought the farm for $8,000 and now we're talking about a well north of a million dollars. So what you're asking is for the city to wait two years, right? That's so you said for the city to wait two years because you're going to try to get
funding and then from there you want the city to wait another three years before you would consider paving that road under the conditions that we've been talking about. I I think that the extended time frame would give the
business the time to hopefully save up that money to to be able to be prepared to take something like that on. I I think that the two-year time frame or less than two years um because we we
can't we can't pave a road in in January of 2027. it would have to be done during the 26 construction season or the 27 construction season. So, what we're really talking about is if the if the paving was pushed to the very very limit
of what the condition would allow, we have maybe 14 16 months to to get to get that funding. We've got we've got maybe two seasons worth to to try and
secure that. And so if we can if we can go to the state, I think it's a I think it's a more drawn out time period. We can flesh out that idea of trying to go to the state and then if if we're just completely unsuccessful, we come we come
back. But I think that condition has condition 8 has put those roadblocks so the city is protected from money coming out of the city's expenditure to to maintain maintain that road. So the residents are protected though is really what we're talking about is the
residents are protected. So my other question is this and I believe this is on record. Um the city had originally said 12 hard stop at 12. You came back um and said look if we cannot stay open
until 1:30 um there's a loss of it'll cost you between 600 to almost a million dollars if you were not to stay open. you earn basically that money in that time frame for the time that you're open is about a million
dollars by staying open. Am I able to to give you the my calculation on that? Well, you I'm going off what you stated on the record and also what staff knows. So, absolutely. Absolutely. So, it takes a customer one and a half hours to get
through the attraction. Okay. So, if we are to abide by the way that the staff has written um condition six, if we're to abide by that, we have to stop selling tickets one and a half hours before midnight. Yep.
Okay. That would cut off an hour and a half off of some of the busiest nights of the season. Okay. And so yes, it would have a impact of revenue, not profit, but revenue
of of about $600,000. Um you've floated a couple different price ranges in there a couple times. So So right now you're saying 600,000, right? I I've always said 600,000. Okay. So, um, did you think that the
city was fair to be able to work out this time frame because of what could be less revenue for your business? I I understand that the city had um an olive branch in that
it didn't they didn't give us quite 130, but they said 1:00 and and I think that that is a reasonable um thing that the city did. Okay. So, I don't know your profit margin. Um
however the average person who will be listening to this reading the the um minutes and that sort of thing this margin of money for two years pays for that road right so 600 times two years is you know 1.2 2
million of of revenue, not profit. Yeah. But of revenue, but the money is coming in, right? So So there's money here that And you the road would be 2028 basically. So you basically have three years to pay for it.
I I think that the way the condition is written that we have to have it paid for by January 1, 2028. Okay. Paved and paid. Sure. Okay. So, but that has give that'll give you two to three years to save up where you you were always you
were talking let's wait and then go another three years so you could save up. So there's there's a little wiggle room in there, right? We're talking about revenue. We're talking about versus profit. The the money that we
would have to pay for the road would have to be from profit, not not gross revenue. Okay. But there should be the city gave the city was saying look we understand this so we're gonna let you stay open until what? Correct. So, they've been
really good about um I I believe that the city has done really a good job with looking at your overall business model and be and understanding what it does cost and trying to also realize that the
residents that are on your street is paying a great deal of angst and issues because of how successful your business is, which is a good thing. I think everybody here has said that that's a good thing. So, I have no further questions. Anybody else?
I have one more question and it's probably already been answered because we've been talking for quite a while. So, thank you for your patience. Um, so if I understand correctly, we approve the conditions put forth tonight. They can come back to us and say, "Hey,
we're running into a roadblock with the road." Correct. Yes. Okay. And in all of the conversations and everything that you've answered and been put through while you've been standing here, I think condition 8 covers our expenses until that road is paved, which the deadline
is September 1st, 2027. So, we're covering our our city costs and staff time. They're covering that. If we prove it as written now, you know, obviously you're looking into additional resources. I think there's time in there, but I think if we approve it as
the conditions laid out right now, condition 8 covers that the capping I now understand after talking with that and you actually did state that 2017 was one of your busiest, but I I know you do very well over there, which is freaking awesome. Um,
so if we approve it that way, he can always come back to us in 2027 as we get closer and go, look, about eight months, we're having some issues. it can be brought back to us for adjustment if needed or and or
another solution. My biggest sticking point is is sticking a business with a million- dollar price tag plus but the business is the reason for that million-doll price tag. So I have that internal conflict. So if we prove it that way right now, they have time to
figure it out and they can come back to us and say we're not going to meet this. the applicant if if council sorry if council um approves a conditional use permit the applicant can also always come back and ask for an amendment that's what I needed to know okay
thank you any other further questions this is a a a big issue no no I mean I would just say I appreciate all you've done to try to make this work and this is like one big sticking point
and I look at it and Yeah, I understand you need would like more time, but I also look at how much more can the residents along that road take or people going up 35 with a dust and washboard
and all that too. So, it's like really hard to to come out. I mean, I hope you guys, we seem to be hamstrung in that we cannot reopen this because one of my other questions was, can we approve it without number four and then come back
to it later? Apparently, we can't. So, I really do hope you know, you get your own estimate and then come back and appeal. Well, the the notion of and it might be a trivial amount of money to
some people. The the notion of being able to come back to the city any time doesn't come out doesn't come without conditions. We already received a bill for WSB's time and Mr. Lunan's time for
$12,000 just to get this to this point. And so there there is a real cost to a business. That's a lot of That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. $12,000 is not nothing. Can Can we find out why he was charged that?
The normal process when we have a applicant in an escrow, they're they're the ones responsible for the cost that we have for engineering or our legal counsel to go through the application and provide um input and advice to the city how to best handle and move forward
with the applicant. And that would be for any applicant coming for a cup. correct or any developer or anything like that. Right. So, we're not doing anything out of the ordinary. I I guess I was just making the statement that it's not it it doesn't
come uh without a cost. Right. Right. So, every time we take this chance of of asking to for an amendment, it's it it it doesn't come cost free. Right. But you're going to have to ask for an amendment to get that cap off eventually if you want to grow your
business, right? So, kind of behind the eightball on that. Did you have something else? No. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. So, number 13 to consider resolution 25989,
a resolution approving a conditional use permit for the Pine Haven Farms Hunted Hayride located at 28186 Kettle River Boulevard. And I think I'm adding to that the fact that it is the conditions that are brought in front of us. So,
all right. We need a motion to approve. I'll make that motion. Do we have a second? Second. We have a second. All in favor? I opposed. So approved. All right. Number 14 to consider uh city council work
session for September 16th, 2025. Mr. Lynwood, is that your discussion or Mr. McFarland? That will be mayor. Um staff is just requesting to the city council to hold a work session on September 16th at 5:30 p.m. Um the discussion for the work
session will be to continue diligence on that property located at 26263. Um the city will have our financial adviser from Baker Tilly here to discuss some of the potential bond structures for consideration to the council um as we go through that uh due diligence of the property.
Okay. Has everybody checked their calendars? Yep. Obviously, we have one member that has not checked their calendar yet, but so far we look good on that. Okay. Um, we need a motion to approve the city work session for September 16th, 5:30 um p.m.
Do we have a motion? We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Second member Schilling. All in favor? I opposed. So approved. Council reports. We will start with um member Luger. Um,
I attended the work session prior to tonight's regular meeting and that's all I've got. Thank you for coming. Member Shelene, I also attended the work session prior to the meeting and uh, thank you all for coming in and being patient. Um, that's all I got. Okay, member Joerger.
Oh, I attended that same work session prior to the meeting. Thank you all for coming. Thank you all for watching. Right, perfect. For some reason, I'm thinking we need to talk about stage coach days. Stage coach day. Who wants to do that? Anybody? Anybody want to bring that up?
No. Are you sure? Are you gonna be there? What's that? Are you gonna Are you going to be there? I will be there. Yes. Yeah. No, it's a great community event. It's really big the biggest celebration of our of our city and the uh um the relief association, fire relief association
does an incredible job organizing. Um and uh we have let's see the second. So we have about two weeks that Saturday, the 13th if I remember off the top of my head. Um and then we also have the fireworks that evening. So Okay. And they're I think they're just the best. I think that's my It's a great event.
Yeah. And then um I also understand that we get to have coffee with the cups as well in October. Yes, that's the second if I remember correctly. Um we'll be host hosting in the parking lot here, weather permitting. Um our mobile food vendor truck will be uh Evergreen will be in
the parking lot. Um so we'll have an opportunity to engage with the community there. And then we'll also have another one in January over at McDonald's. We're looking at another one there. So, okay. So, if it's raining, can we come in here? That's up to Grant. Grant, what do you say, Grant? I'll have to talk to staff at
Okay. Let get back to us. Let us know. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Um, so Mr. Ericson, you've been kind of quiet over there today. What do you got that you can update us on? The 2024 student improvement project is
nearing completion. There's a few pesky punch list items mostly related to restoration. Uh waiting for the contractor sub to come in and review those items with us. Uh the next city council meeting will bring the uh declaration of cost to be assessed and set the public hearing or the assessment
hearing for that project. Uh as far as the 2025 street improvement project, they have removed the trail. They have removed the damaged curb uh that is being that curb is being poured this week. The trail will be uh poured and paved this week. Uh next week they'll be
milling the batuminous surfacing and the and paving and the following week will be restoration. So should be uh completed here near the end of uh September. And so we'll um first meeting in October, we'll we'll declare the cost to be assessed for that project and set that uh assessment hearing for the first
meeting in November. Okay. It's great to have all that project done. Yeah. So all right. All right. Um, with that we need a motion to adjurnn. So moved. We have a motion to adjurnn. Do we have a second? Second. We have a second. All in favor? I opposed. We are adjourned at 84.