##VIDEO ID:3SBX-aSxxao## welcome to the December 2nd meeting of the Yarmouth Board of Health and start off with attendance Charlie are you here yep okay Larry here I'm Hillard I'm here Mary here and Eric present okay full house that's great uh just notice again this is a hybrid meeting uh which means that board members actually and public can really tune in uh from just remotely uh there are a lot of instructions on the town website you can zoom in and um there's a Yarmouth YouTube channel as well so hopefully some people are are doing that this evening and we'll start off with the agenda here with number one and that's public comment if there's anyone who'd like to come forward comment anyone at home or wherever they are this is opportunity to do so okay don't see much happening there so let's go number two in the agenda is Cape Cod farms and they're located 250 2E 28 and this is a tobacco hearing uh okay you want to sure good Mr chairman you you have in your pack that was delivered to you a report from Bob Colette uh Tobacco Control uh program manager and uh it it it just gives a summary of uh a of an inspection that he did on November 15th at as you mentioned Cape Cod Farms on Route 28 and the violation is that uh favored flavored products uh or flavored enhancers were being available and actually were sold unfortunately Bob cannot be here tonight now he has sent some subsequent emails to explain exactly how how this worked and we have them for display for you um but we also have the uh the manager Mr Patel of Cape Cod Farms but this is a violation that we the health department in Yarmouth did not do but tobacco control program did forwarding this that this is a violation of not only yarm's code but also the state code and now the retailers is here to explain and typically as you know this is the process where they come in to explain how the how the violation occurred great okay please come forward just introduce yourself when you get to the [Applause] mic so what's up Hi how are you hi sir so he's my uncle and I'm working like just once again so everyone can hear your name is Manish Manish my name is giris okay great so at that day so my uncle was not there so I helping him on some days like sure so what was the thing the guy game and we don't know about that the game green Suite is not legal in the state we don't get any letter from the court or where we can get St legal but in state it's legal we have the letter for that so we don't know about the game green s is not legal to say it I I if I could just explain you're presenting Bob's report does not does not talk about green suets it's a different product right and and Bob said in his email simply said that um and I can read that for you and this this came to us while Bob is on vacation thankfully he was attend enough to say the product is unequivocably game green I would not have identifi identified green Suite as a violation to him I'm sure you also received a letter from the FDA anonymous complaint about about the same retailer Bob was very clear in identifying the product and it is it it's not it's not the green suits that's being being presented here okay any comments about what you just heard so what was the thing we don't know like it's legal or or not legal what we have is that these papers from the Swedish match company which will sell those game green suite and what was the thing I don't know the guy who inspected got the this one he just asked me to put the bag you can't sell that and uh what we have like a k green Suite we can sell it and uh that's all I know so so who told you you could sell the game green Suite yes so the who told you who so what we so we who told us so we can get it from delivered from ja company which will deliver all the the company isn't the one that decides what you can sell yeah yeah so what was the thing the license for this game green Suite we have available if you want to say the whole thing can trans it to them yeah I'm missing some of this not following anyone else no so we're having we're having trouble I think understanding everything you've said perhaps you can speak up a little louder and just speak little slower we just don't want to miss what you have to say so what was the thing we don't know what we can sell like we I don't I just know that game green Suite we can sell and which is written we got like a u Dan who's a like like J's distributor I got this from him like we can sell or not sell so we don't know like what we can sell or what we if I could just explain to you the gentleman that did this he's been actually with the tobacco control program impossible for probably over 25 years I believe Bob Colette is his name and and and I'm just going to the product that he identified is game green no no we he would not have identified green sweet this is in writing I'm I'm just going to bring this to show yes sure this is Bob this is Bob Colette sending to me we not have Iden green Suite what you what you've brought here is a different product no just only this one no got be yeah yeah have so we don't sell cam green we have only this one we have buop the last orders we can get from the company so we don't sell game green we only sell game green Suite I don't know the guy misunderstood M we don't know about that and I and I do understand unfortunately Bob is not here he he he not only made made it he made it very clear in his report of what was being sold he followed that up with an email to explain cuz our concern was exactly that he would not be here his testimony in writing is in fact exactly that he he he did not identify the product that you have there as being sold we're talking about two different products pretty sure yeah yes yes that different product but same name same packing everything same just only the only just in here the suite and the game green same packaging same thing sometimes like if you just see the we don't have the other pack of the game green which we can't sell if you see there like same thing but same package we can't even recognize it's there or not right so I don't know the guy moken by understand the gentleman's name is Bob Colette yeah yeah and and he sent the report and I'm just I'm going to actually give you the report also this is Bob Colette's report yeah who's in charge of the tobacco control program primarily across all of the cape yeah me just to the the public to hear this it's this was um a letter from Bob pette uh who responsible for the inspection um conducted that um he's saying the product was unequivocally game green and he's saying I would not have identified green Suite as a violation to him meaning you or whoever was in the store met so what was the thing at the time he inspected us if you can get the letter like he just told me I was there at the day usually I know that he he's there December 15th yeah at the day I was there inspection November 15 at that time I was there he has some work to do so he's not there so he just uh asked me to put that thing backside you can't sell this so I just put it back and uh if he just let me know like that's you can sell so I just put it back then we got to know like we we can sell that and maybe you could explain to the board so B so you did see Bob you were there you saw Bob Colette come in yeah yeah I call I see and maybe you could step us through that the board would want to hear he explained I don't want to put words in your mouth but maybe you could say what exactly transpired when Bob came in to say that the product was not for sale or you explain to me again or the board I should say yeah so what was the he just enter so he see all around the tobacco scenes like what we establish on the aisle so he was just seeing that and there he found the game green so he just asked me to put that thing outside and put it back that's all he did he don't even give us a letter that you can't sell this or anything so you did have it out then you did have that product out that was which which one Mar game green you're saying which product right now game green okay yeah you did have game green out then no no no we you said he found it and he told you to put it away you couldn't sell it we have this one at that day we don't have the game green we don't have the game we have only this one is that a flavored tobacco no flavor game green is yeah right so you're saying he asked you to put away that product one that doesn't have any flavor to it no no no I don't know about but somehow they if you see the packaging of the both packages were like same so somehow we misunderstood like I don't know about that he misunderstood or what he does like the same packaging if you see there just only one thing me did you ask him why he told you to take that away and put it yeah he just asked me to take that away you can't sell this that's it and did you want to know why he said that no he just s you just you can't sell this that's it no why would you ask that day why are you telling me I can't sell a product that's confusing to me why should he be able to walk in and say you can't sell this so at the time I don't know I can sell or not but when I go to like I can sell it like he said it's ban and after I don't know about he can sell it I think we can't deal with this until Bob can be with us think we have to wait yeah I this is yeah I agree and I'd like to see a a package of the game green sweet also do do they typically take photos when they conduct an inspection I feel like we've seen photos in the past I we have actually we've actually seen products put out on the table and shown dis displayed for us un should take a picture of this to show Bob to show him what they're telling yes the bo I understand I I think Bob's memo Bob Bob's email is pretty clear I will certainly take a picture of this to explain but what I I've I've given it over to you yourself you have a copy of his email as well Bob is pretty clear in this not a lot of confusion he's been doing this a long time not saying the Board needs to make a decision tonight but Bob's Bob's position I can understand what you'd want to hear from him directly he's on vacation till the 6th simp because we're ABS this I can I can understand that completely uh and please also know that um that this the board is not aware this is a $1,000 fine first offense it's pretty it's $1,000 pretty hefty we're aware of that that's why I think that we need to make absolutely sure that we're dealing with this issue um I I don't know Bob schedule the next the third the meeting of the it would be December 16th would be the next meeting I don't know Bob's schedule but I can certainly put an inquiry to him to say if in fact um he would like to postpone this hearing until uh until the 16th do you understand what we're saying right now sir sir sir sir just wait a second no one can hear you back there you'd have to come up introduce yourself and come to the mic absolutely by all means yes my name is Sues and is my brother I help to him that's the the same happen same day when coming in the field in the him store in the K cat farm he give it to in the letter this town letter that's the letter and when I did everything he write down in the game green and when I come in the same G same day in the town all I explain to pH that's the not game green that's the game green sweet and then feel say okay you can come in the December 2nd and hearing 5:00 p.m. and explain to all in the town hall all members absolutely you should be able to come in it's a violation and and because what happened I don't know about Bob then he coming over there he found this stuff he didn't give you any letter no sign nothing anything no picture nothing anything how you he know this is not legal no they they don't do that there's actually a reason for the board has asked that to say yes to leave something they they don't they don't do that this has to be completely these these inspections are unannounced they're unscheduled um and part of that and it's not to catch people it's to be able to see what exactly is going on are the human doors being locked what is there any single cigarettes there's a whole Litany of of regulations that the board has carefully M over time has has gone over to to work with the retailers but also to protect the public um so that there isn't uh any letter that is sent there but a a report is given m to the health department okay so that and he also identified himself evidently sometimes they're youth compliance checks and they're completely Anonymous this wasn't a youth compliance check this was the director of The Tobacco Control program came into the store M but the board is asking no because I know know about state is not legal in the game green but game sweet State is legal because I have a convenience store too I everybody I have a all kind receip here every Route 28 all store selling game green Suite we're not questioning that no they're not it's it's much simpler than that we're just we're just saying here's the item that he mentioned he runs the whole program M and needless to say we're paying attention to it so uh we'll put a hold on it until um Jay can come in that's all Bob Bob Bob rather yeah so so please understand this is I understand yeah game green M and game green suet are two different products two different product yeah and and you've identified he did take something off the shelf but I think this will be this will be quickly clarified for the board when he can come and it's just unfortunate when he's on vacation I didn't ask him to zoom in he's on vacation we can have the conversation it's very clear I just think we should have a picture of this product to show him yeah cuz that's their position because why he take it out because he didn't know he thought game street is not legal that's why he take it out s he didn't give you anything later he didn't know he didn't tell me about anything game Green Street Legal yeah nothing he know game green is not legal he know who's Bob or this this guy he know game green is not legal in the Massachusetts okay however Bob Colette is saying that he saw green game green so that's why we have to yeah this off until Bob Colette can be here that's perfect yeah this because frankly we've never had an issue where Bob has been Incorrect and I've been here for over 10 years this just never occurred okay where store is saying uh there was a mixup that way so when I got this letter and when I read this one he write down in the game green that's why I came in the right time in the town hall and I explain to everything in the field is this F okay yeah J let us know to make sure um the date and that will be coming in and we'll make sure that you're aware that director of the program will be here and you need to be here obviously it's a violation we're talking about a lot of money for you Yes actually take a picture I I can take okay I'd ask if I could I'm going to I'm going to I'll take a photo I'd ask you to bring that back as well bring that back on the 16 is is just so I'm clear is is this your store no that's the him store okay so another store okay I just didn't I'm trying to find the in the y in the brothers wood Mt okay all right so it's not your store no not my store okay he's my brother that's why I'm helping you're helping and you're helping yeah okay thank you all right we'll see you in the very near future then yeah see if we can resolve this take the picture you want to keep it one piece keep it [Music] yeah thank you a question thanks thanks for coming in thank you appreciate it I'll confirm this the uh the six of December tentatively next meeting how the board is but okay we'll have Phil reach out to you Jesus my microphone okay uh third item here uh is melow Wilson cranbery bog in parenthesis it says fresh from the vine septic system Title Five inspection uh this listing with two uh property co-owners one's Brian Wilson one's Steve Wilson and most recent letter that looks like it went out here it's one to Mr Brian Wilson from the health department and the issue here is the town of yth Health Department had ordered an inspection to be conducted for the septic system servicing the barn located 16 Denver Drive West Yarmouth Massachusetts no correspondence has been made with the armor withth Health Department at this time now this was signed by Barry Lewis and you want to bring us up to date on this uh yes um I was called by Mr Brian Wilson out to the bog earlier in September earlier and to show me around there was um a trailer that the someone was living in nice RV on the trailer he took me inside the barn inside the barn there's been a uh bathroom constructed not a not with a toilet just with a shower and then also with um washer and dryer hookup my concern was where is the shower and the washer being leached to that's why I asked for the title 5 inspection there's nothing on record for any permanent septic systems um engineering any kind of plans or anything like that I'm just trying to make sure where it's leeching how it's leeching what kind of facility it's going to make sure it's not going onto the bog and it is in a it is within probably 50 ft of the cranberry bog just trying to figure out where it's at just so we can move forward and and hopefully get a proper system in there the co- owner contacted you uh Miss Brian did yes sir his nephew apparently is living on the bog in the trailer okay or is someone here I'm Brian oh great won't you come up introduce yourself and uh certainly like to hear also here I'm sorry my brother Steve is also here well he's certainly welcome to come up and once again the people at home um won't be able to hear you unless you're speaking into the mic and obviously this this is you know a recorded meeting so have a seat and just formally introduce yourselves so we can get started I'm stepen Wilson into the mic once again have a seat so everyone can hear you I'm stepen Wilson okay good Brian Wilson yeah so we own the bog on 16 Denver Drive yeah okay you know what I have to tell you that this situation here looks very similar to the same situation I'm having with the building department that my brother Brian came I'm going to interrupt you right here we're talking just about the health department about the septic system this isn't about building or zoning issues see when I'm when I'm getting to is that Brian has filed a complaint against me and himself on your septic system we have had um a rinse area in this B for the past 26 years which me and Brian constructed and the shower area which he helped construct as well it's very seldom used and is a um the uh if we do have to use that shower area we have Earth Earth friendly soap that we use in there and we've been using this very very seldom and there's no leeching area there is no septic system in there it just goes out like any um any outdoor shower that you find all over the cape it's no different it's just in a bond it's the same thing as an outdoor shower it just goes right out onto the ground there's no chemicals involved it's Earth friendly soap and it's just a plain rinse area that's all it is so when I went out there it was it was a very nicely constructed shower yeah he did yeah it's yeah you know it is kicked up yeah there was shampoo and soap and stuff in there also with the washer machine there was detergents and stuff in there also yeah which is very seldom used yes very seldom used well I mean for the benefit of the board as well as the public what's the regulation on this just to you know I think most of speak please just one second I'm just asking him to start with what what's the regulation that we all should hear right now the Board of Health has a right to ask anybody for a Title 5 septic inspection to see where facilities are leeching to just to protect the the aquafer protect the land and everything like that it's under code I had it in here uh 15301 septic inspections all septics inspection all systems shall be inspected when the owner operator therefore is ordered to to do so by the local approving Authority so yeah that's quite clear no it was in our notes but people listening don't know this but but in this case there is no system right but there's something I that's why I wanted to know where it was going whether it was around the backside of the barn or it was going right into the cranberry bog where they're taking cranberries and selling them to the public that's my concern is for the and it's right as well we would never have that we would never contaminate our fruit never in a million years would would contaminate our fruit so where does the outflow from the washer and dryer or really the washer go um it's well it's in a small it's a in it's a small closet area that um we have down there that we use from time to time um to clean um Farm clothes and it's very seldom used very seldom used and we've had these rinse areas in in in place since we built this Bine 26 years ago and from the assessor's office um you'll see here that um this is from the assessor's office if you'd like to see it I could bring it up to you um that it was permited ID number 807 so we had permits for whatever we did down there and all you have to do is pull these permits up and you'll see that we were in compliance and as far as like you said there is no toilet in there we have um a out house a a porter party in event that someone has to relieve themselves whether it be friends or guest or family right so we use that so nothing's contaminating the ground or the cranberry bar at all see what's happened is Brian just dragged the town into a Family Feud and he went the town to intercept all this and try to make it difficult um for both of us so we of this argument not only with you but with the Board of Health as well and we've gone to we've already in the procedings of the of of the Board of Health where Brian started all this family feud in here and dragged the town into it had this install Feud on your family is not a concern to us really isn't that that's your matter our our issue here is our town regulations being followed that's all Now 26 years ago I believe it was 26 you said yes was that cleared to have a a washer just unloading into the environment um the manager of the blog um he said that if the washer is an issue if anyone has an issue with that washer we'll just completely take it right out and it will relieve all the pressure of of having a wash machine in there but it is essential that we have a rinse area which is no which is no which is no different than an outdoor shower it's in a bond there's no heat it's a bind storage Bond it is it is it is you're right you know he did fix it up in there it looks nice he's got some tile on the on the wall and he has a you know thing to hang soap and stuff like that so it doesn't look like a partic you know the you know the outdoor shower that you'd have in back of my house your house everybody has them on the outside of the houses it's just the same thing but it's inside the BN I noticed that when I wrote my name down as being in attendance he put down that he was an inspector who did who's he Steve he wrote inspector on the list no I'm not an inspector by any means that that's confusing to me I don't know if anyone else system who was an inspector system inspection right yeah I'm not I am not system inspection yeah she asked me to put down so who in who is is he a engineer no I'm not why's here it's why's here he gave the purpose she asked me to put down the purpose of why we're here so I thought this is exactly what is on on your sheet here a system inspection this is what's on your sheet m that's that's all just as inspection of what so we're here to discuss you know systems are required to meet Title Five regulations they're very common throughout the cave that the no we installed septics where I work so I'm familiar with septic systems okay and Mr Lewis I showed him the shower the washer and dryer he inspected it took photographs of pipes leaving from the bottom of the camper which is a zoning bylaw no one's supposed it's not residential and there hoses coming out of the side of the bond and washer and dryer are not elevated or or the shower that would drain out onto the ground they're draining into some sort of a system sir so the board understands that's exactly why we're here to find out the office and again this predates me significantly we have no as built record we have no engineered plans we don't have anything that can tell us that could locate where the system is and on September 24th bar sent a letter to say listen we're going to give you 30 days you need a Title 5 inspection it's required to have an inspection of where this gray water where the discharge goes how often it's used it's it's it's doesn't factor into it this has this has to have a Title Five system and haven't had that and that has that has to be identified we just want to know if it's leeching into the ground leeching into a pit leeching where it's Lei that's why I require requested the title 5 inspection I just want to know where it's going that's you'll be more than happy to come down and we can show it just goes right out out to the ground into the stone area to be to right next to the cranberry barog at all and there's no pipes coming out of um his son is living on the property it's not residential that has nothing to do with what we're talking about in there every day no he's not and Mr Lewis witness shampoo and I I don't know if Head and Shoulders is well you have to have these if you need to rinse off you need to have a shampoo if you have an outdo a shower everyone has them you have a brush to scrub your back you have a shampoo you have conditioner it's it's common I mean should the board be focusing on this outdoor shower or on the washer it's indoors it's not Outdoors it's in the bond it's the same thing it's no different I want to know where they both are leeching to Mr chairman okay and we Barry does not do the inspection so the board is clear a Title Five in a Title Five inspector does those um and that's how that's what we've asked for if you read the letters and M both Mr Wilson youve re Reed the letter we're looking for an inspection report from a Title 5 inspector there's no there is no spection there is no title 5 inspection there is no setic system it just runs out no it just runs out right just like an outdoor shower so that's I want to know I want a certified inspector to come and tell me this okay okay yeah you can certainly come by and I wouldn't know where it is cu I didn't install the shower or any of the wash down yes he has he did all that with me we did it together we did all this work together see this is where we're going point this is exactly where we're going because you're lying okay well once again we're not going to get involved conflict both of you had all right so do you understand that you're required to get an inspector yeah that's not be that's a not Barry's not going to do that it's going to be a certified Title 5 inspector that you have to obtain and I even know where I would even get one also I would uh like to have um someone from the health department there also what to witness the inspection yes as every after the you do a septic system the as build's prepared and then the town meets with the engineer to look at the as built and make sure that the system was install properly we have no system there is no system well there's no system we never installed the system it's F saying I mean the health department is there if you're installing a new one or if it's a failed system there was a system the fail that's how you're being required to get an inspection period for the property right there the part I'm involved with this I'm sure you're capable of finding an inspector if not I'm sure we can give you some names but I'd rather you pick someone but is there a fee involved with this I would assume so yes who is responsible for having them come down who has to pay for this fee you do you the property owner yes the property owner so both of us would have to pay individual or say for instance the fee is $100 or $200 for him to come down and inspect it he's going to responsible for half and I'm going to be responsible for half well that's up to you that's up to the inspector how they want to get paid I we don't really care about that we need the result of the inspection is what we need and you're required uh by regulations in the town so who is the one that's going to call so that would probably be the person that's going to be responsible for paying so I think that Branch should call and have an inspector that's between the two of you if you're co-owners that's not up to us you'll have to pick that but looks like your first letter from the health department was September 14th of this year so I think the health department has been very patient with you you will do whatever you like okay Barry why you to State what you formally need just for the record I need a certified State title 5 inspector to go out and see where the indoor shower and washing machine are leeching too Y and need a full report within 30 days from time date of inspection if you want to request a health agent to be there I'd be more than happy to go there I cannot assist them I cannot tell them what to look for but I can witness them doing the inspection I'd be more than happy to do that can I just ask a question of course well two things you have a property card that's not in our perview to analyze that but I'm curious is the wash is the is it listed on the property card that there's a shower present information a washing machine present yeah I there isn't it would be in it would be in the um in the permit I don't have there's no um no record of any indoor shower rent Station Washing Machine being being built not to bring in the other situation but that's why they are in a situation with the building in his zoning department right now also and a clarifying question Steve had mentioned that it's a rinse station Barry or Jay can you clarify the difference between a a shower and a rinse station such as an outdoor shower an outdoor shower rent station be for when you're coming off the beach to rinse the sand off of you just so you don't track it into the house where shower you're actually using soaps detergents shampoos to clean your yourself so a rinse station is not required to meet Title 5 I would say no but a shower an interior shower absolutely is and that's why that's being requested yes sir system inspection thank you also a washing machine and a washing machine washing machine when a Title Five inspector does a Title 5 inspection they look to make sure wash machine uh kitchen sinks are not leeching to a separate area that they're all leeching to the proper area it's pretty straightforward yeah we can uh we can assist we can't recommend but we can give you a a list without you know recommending anyone for a Title 5 inspector we can certainly expedite that piece of it um but but you're right the health department has has been pretty in understanding there was a meeting that was canceled right there was one meeting that this would have been held back in November it was not um but what we're really hoping to do is just to try to update our records to make sure that in fact as you mentioned the as built um the title 5 inspect and Engineering plans we have we have nothing we have we have no information on this at all and uh Barry's been working hard to just to try to gain compliance on that so um that's really what I don't on time frame it it doesn't take long to schedule an inspector and again it's been 20 26 years I'm not exp but to Simply say show a good faith effort if I'd ask the board if we can get a good faith effort from our owner the owners here to to get this started because then if in fact the board deems that and it appears that it might there's a perk test there's an engineering work that has to be done a system to be installed there's a process to this and most home owners that are listening are very familiar with that that's exactly what's required for Title 5 system it it happens in every home here on the cap that's correct but we don't have a home it's a bind it just we we wash our hands off you know we're not it's not it's not like a residential home it's a buy it it does qualify it does it it does require a Title 5 system and well let's start with this I don't want to presuppose let's not suppose what what what the ti What the inspector is going to find out let's start with we give good information because the board can with good information the board can make a good decision as Barry has asked for an inspection of a Title 5 inspector to come out to evaluate where the discharge where the gray water is going okay that's that's step one could I ask a question yes what do mean if this is an indoor shower and this is a washing machine in Bound right in the bind yes prompted all of this we needed it in event that we get you know you're working on the I I know what you need whether you need it or not what prompted the inspection what caused this Brian was the one that complained about it he complained about it um about filing a complaint against himself and me with this family feud that's going on he's trying to get us um it's it's a corporation it's not a feud just one at a time we don't want to miss it it's a corporation it's not a Family Feud yes it is and he's pretty much told his son that he's going to eventually either inherit the bogs or but anyway he's living there and he's taking a shower in the shower every two times a day I don't know once a day once a week he's living behind the bond it's a zoning bylaw violation I I put in all these requests over a year ago September of 23 and this is just getting addressed now and there's another violation of building it without permits that we're going in front of a judge on December 16th it's it's beyond like a Family Feud he refuses to sell the property for any amount of money and the amount that I am asking for is far below what he is willing to pay me okay that's again that's between the two of you you understand what we're yes required for you to provide to the health department I didn't install it so he'll be responsible for any payments or Fe no he was right along with me he was right along with me going back 26 years ago so that's where I questioned you about who's going to be responsible for paying I would like to say something I would like an inspection done within 10 days if that's an all right request for can I ask a question yes if the gentlemen say there's no system there what are we inspecting it's leing to but we're looking for a Title 5 inspection there is no if there is none there why are we asking for an inspection there's no I want to know where it's leeching uh Larry I I want to know where the washing machine's going and where the whether it's there or not I want to know so then if it's just going out there I then we need to have this as a base to move forward to have it properly be discharged could we move forward from that now since they're saying there's no system there right there is no system there never has been if if if you you brought up a hypothetical here if there is no system but we don't have that validated just the third party the third party would validate that I see the next piece would go and then we have a we we don't have a Title Five system and the next option is to put that into into housing court in Plymouth Housing Court yeah this is a basic step for any septic I see yeah this happens how we go through and if somebody wants to add an addition or do something get in uh even though they say there's no system in place I I just want to know where it where no system is there is no system I think I think I think we need a third party to to say that a certified installer or or a certified inspector will say will will validate and the board will have the information to then move forward if if if the homeowner or excuse me the property owner were to get rid of the facility what does that mean for the inspection in other words we' in other words we can get rid of the washer we can get rid of that shower and we have no rinse area now now so if we can't have it on the inside of the bond is it okay to put my rinse area on the outside of the bond just like I have in my house and probably everyone here has a shower on the outside of their house would that be okay they wash clothes outside also we don't wash clothes down there it's very seldom used sir you keep saying it's used s it doesn't that doesn't make any difference someone could come here every eight years if they have another home standards are the same regulations are the same yeah that's what I'm trying to say so like so if we abandon this and I put step up to that mic so hi I'm Chris Wilson the manager of the farm uh son shouldn't be speaking at all he has he doesn't own the property no but I do manage it okay let me just okay we're very generous with people even from the audience if they have something relevant to say we encourage people to speak up so uh won don't you go ahead I I did reach out a couple of times I think both to uh Jay and Barry saying that if the washing machine was a problem that I could just take it out um I can't see the shower being too much of an issue but if it needs to go outside I mean that I can that's more than doable but uh if the washing machine is an issue I mean I do have the emails here stating that um I did ask if that was a problem I will take it out there you go problem solved well if we could eliminate then there's then there would be no need for that that's coming we're hearing that now we're going to get to take out the the shower and the washing machine so there would be no Plumbing there wouldn't be anything there well then that dismantles it all right it has to be has to be taken off well then you don't have a title 5 system for there isn't anything right but up until the communications that has happened over the past probably two months there H there is a my understand Barry you've been there there is a shower right there is a washing machine that needs a Title 5 system right so we'll just take that right out so you'll need to pull permits for the building department for that no you don't no You' need a demo permit deconstruction yes you do yeah no no no he's right you do you need a a demolition permit just getting started the I don't know that regulation so I I don't know if you can help me out or the board out what's that now what he's saying right now I I I would defer to the to the building department Mark rules can be very clearly that that doesn't fall in our purview however if it's not it's clear we've asked since September Barry has right for a Title 5 system as it stands today where we stand right now that this system requires a Title 5 system and we just ask for inspection we didn't ask for an engineering plan we said what is it let's evaluate this we haven't received that now a different scenario is being being submitted or presented obviously it's clear if if all of that goes away that a title we're not going to ask for a Title Five system when there isn't there's no water running but if there's discharge of gray water and um that would require a Title 5 system and to start with is an inspection a certified third party to tell us where the discharge is going that's what we've asked for so would it be okay when he comes down there and he sees that there's actually no septic system There's No tital 5 system and he says it's just running out onto the ground like a like a shower in your backyard where would where would that bring us then since it's in Conservation Area I'd have to talk to the Conservation Commission on it and what if we just dismantle everything right now and we put an outdoor shower again I would probably say you're going to need permits from the building department to do construction work I'm focusing on the title 5 inspection right now well there is no title five though there's no title five Mr Lewis saw the property and he could clearly see it's not just draining outside I could not see where it was draining that's you couldn't see why I asked and there hoses connected to the camper that's not true he's living on the bog there's no there's no there is no hoses absolutely no hoses connected to the camper going into the ground there's no need to have any of that because we have a porta party that we use and if you need to rinse your hands off we have a sink in the Bine if you need to get dirty we were using the shower clean off I thought like you were coming home from the beach gray water needs to be um accounted for anyway whether it's going into the ground or not whether it's out of a mobile truck out of a uh wash station gray water needs to be needs to be accounted for so we'll just dismantle and that'll be the end of it there's no title five there isn't there isn't a Title Five there never has been I make a motion hold on one second I'd like to make a motion um that the gentleman before us arranged for Title 5 inspection within 10 days and that that will at least tell us exactly what's happening to the gray water from the shower as well as the washing machine when it is used and at that point um you can go forward with recommendations as to what needs to happen second further discussion questions could I request 20 days to bring us past the hearing of the 16th it's been two months I'd say 10 days is fair year 10 days I said 10 days yeah I said 10 everybody with it okay any other discussion on because we've been on this for a while now from the board not from the audience on on a a motion yep okay all in favor of the motion just raise your hand say I I I that's three and N Charlie he said I he said I or I he said I I okay so it's four to one the motion can I just hear it's 10 days for for an inspection right to get the inspection results so we know exactly what's happening to the gray water from the shower as well as the washing machine when it's in use the only issue I have with that of course we're going back and forth with this is what's there to examine yeah there is nothing to examine sir there's no title five there but they want to have them come down and look at it but my issue is who is going to pay for this yeah who's going to pay for it that's not that's not our issue the board's concern he's not going to pay for it and I'm not going to pay for it so what do we do what happens we get an inspection you don't get a Title Five in 10 days so can I make a comment or is it done is this done or well the motion's passed but I'm I'm certainly open so if these gentlemen went in and dismantled it eliminated it yes what because they're still talking about having an outside shower and an outside shower uses detergent or not detergent but soap shampoo so and it's next to a conservation area so we still have some concerns from the Board of Health perspective in terms of the so how would it be different from a average outdoor shower that any person would have do is there a permit required for an outdoor shower I don't think you're I don't know but the outdoor showers that people have outside their homes I'd be happy to do that are they next to conservation areas Within 50 ft of a bog every home on Vass River you're going to ask them for a building so Mary you're telling me that my outside shower needs a Title Five inspection no are you next to a conservation area I don't know it's on the other side of the bik path no no that's not what I'm saying I think we're done yep can we just within 10 days a Title Five inspection will be uh will be conducted and the inspector if I ask that the inspector let us know that that's going that's that's going on who have you who have you decided to get that'd be great but how we going to get that done in 10 days I don't even know anybody and we don't have a title 5 years you said he'd give you a list you can't recommend someone but you can have a list of names and you can choose who to call who's going to pay for this you're the property owner coowner we both are yeah so who's going to be responsible you have to settle that but you have town government we don't what if we don't get the title 5 and we just dismantle everything the title 5 inspection we just dismantle it in the 10 days and it's done it's all gone what if they do nothing it's it's what if what if we don't I I can't afford to get an inspection this been going on for months we just can't afford it what's that we can't I can't afford it maybe he can I can't this these are all violations that have been going on with the the building department all brought in zoning by him all complaints made by it's not residential he's living there in a camper complaints made allowed in the town we're again we're getting off okay decision has been made okay this is over okay good thank you agreed okay let's move on to the next item then I would like to um request that thank you we talk about the minutes first before we go into the green burial discussion is there anything else that you need from uh sure I don't okay I don't think I no need anything for the no okay things have changed huh okay okay yeah Mary that's fine you want to go over minutes I because I have several um several things I'd like to discuss that impinge on the green burial discussion from the minutes um and and so I didn't want to just call and ask for Corrections because I'd like for it to be part of a discussion okay um on page three of the minutes under green burial discussion policy policy SL regulations I was cheing that meeting yes where are we on page three of the minutes of the pre the last meeting November 4th y I do not remember Jay saying that the policy was the responsibility of the board I do remember saying that I asked for the health department staff to draft a policy for us to consider at this meeting so I've those two comments about that the board did come up with several additional additions or considerations to the draft list that Jay supplied us with with considerations for any kind of policy and I grabbed my notes from that but somehow don't have them in front of me but I can get that to you um I also requested the staff to research if there were any exceptions or variances allowed regarding Z zone two and that's not captured in the minutes and it's not on our agenda for tonight so I need to know if you feel that the responsibility for drafting a policy is the boards rather than the Departments because if that's the case this is different from the procedure that we've followed in the past now I know when we did some revisions to the poultry regulations Barry and Larry were work together on it and that's because they're both expert subject matters subject experts um that made sense um but in the past we've had a draft after discussion um and and there's been a lot of discussion and a lot of materials in front of us the health director has presented for us draft policy that we then discuss and say yes that captures what we remember were saying agreeing on or now we're agreeing on it because it's all together Mary makes imminent sense what you're saying what what what I feel is we need some direction as to what I presented with 13 questions you add several more to shape this in some way right I could come up Barry and I could sit or you know we've talked to I've talked to I'm very familiar now with burial regulations across the C okay it's a two lot it's a 2 acre minimum it's going to be 30 foot set packs I'm come up with all these things as opposed to if the board could give us some directions on these as to what what give us some shape as to because that could go on for six months of uh where it isn't allowed in the front yard it isn't the board the policy Direction and from that working with Town Council we will clearly put together a policy ever starting from scratch it then becomes my policy and I it it is the board's policy I'm not pushing this back on you just to give some direction as to what I was hoping it was te actually get some an email back with Hey listen this is what we're thinking it should be a a certain acreage size it's not allowed in Z these are just hypotheticals give us some Direction so that we could then do that because otherwise I'm wasting a lot of town Town Council time and putting something together that quite frankly could have six eight iterations that's all I from all of the materials we've been given there there are some very specific things that have to be addressed in the policy that the state has provided the the guidelines for so I mean that's those are Givens well actually Mary each of these questions none of them are defined a minimum size of the lot if I went down you know um is DPW is that required that's it is it isn't but we thought the board I actually reached out to this water superintendent and they said and and I actually met with the DPW director and then unequivocally he said absolutely not in zone do and not there's just not a lot of research I think Hillary you had said Shez we're not getting the information as Jeff Kobe and the water consultant had said there's not a lot of information on this I I'm I wasn't pushing this back across the the the desk to but but zone two is it possible to get an exception or a variance no no see I that that couldn't be answered at the last meeting that's why I wanted to find that out right that makes a huge difference particularly for the poor gentleman that's been before us several times I couldn't I couldn't agree this this was a new policy to put a policy in place and again we went across the the cape and I think I included all of you on this Brewster is the only community and I I mentioned this that allows this we actually reached out to the the the building of the cemetery uh director and he said in the 1960s they made the decision not to allow this and the ask was why why don't you allow green burials just out of imminent precaution for our water supply here on the cape who said that that's Bullock is Our Town Cemetery supervisor okay and he said the town made that decis 1960s made the decision not to allow green burials in in the town cemeteries is that something like what Roby came forward with there's no documentation of that there's no record of that probably there might be like I'm not for sure but that's when I called him that's he said that he's been doing his own research because he's gotten questions also and when I called him that that was his answer strictly to protect the the town um aquafer the town water supply once again I I keep saying this at that's now that's 60 years ago okay things change I mean we got to bring things up to date I'm not saying there we could have green burials in yth that there's any space for it location for it we don't know that yet it's true I think for making a regulation there's some Basics to it um and that is structured very often it's cutting and pasting from State rags to to start creating something and then fill in some details which are important if it's distances yeah we got to fill in the distance what we want in our town but I I think we need some structure put together of Regulation at least that's by history what's happened here sure so of that my feeling is there's going to be a lot of holes I thought there would be a discussion here as to the board would then say what are the setbacks what uh Define the area of non-disturbance well a 4x8 is is a is a burial lot we would want something else that's what you do that's what you do you propose that in the policy that you bring to us no that's you didn't hear my area of non-disturbance you that's a 4x8 that's a burial lot but what is the area of non-disturbance you're not going to be able to dig right up to a green burial it's going to be a 10 by 12 it's going to be I didn't know what the board's feeling was on that is this would this be allowed in the front yard well yeah sure of course the board said no no we're not going to put this in the front yard we don't allow boats in the front yard we're not going to have a grave in the front it was to have a discussion for the board without anyone presenting things and to go down this list and to say what are the thoughts here from that discussion that has never happened the questions have been asked but the board has never had that discussion of well this is what I think to hear each of you from that I could I can clearly write something but I don't know I don't have one answer to those 15 questions Jay I disagree I think we need in that paragraph just says location it's our responsibility to to give some specifics then we would have as a board but it's very hard you have five people to start filling in details it's helpful to have a guideline of having paragraphs and having titles and having whatever has to be underlined or bold of what has to be filled in and a lot of it having looked into it the state has a lot of things they can offer online you can find some things but yes we would have to fill in some of the blanks excuse me of details sure well let me ask you this and this is a great discussion I I was really hoping what put this I put a lot of time together on this the one of the things communicable diseases things of that didn't even make the list but we added it when we discuss I actually if if remember if you watch the tape I had said one of the things that wasn't on here was communal disease if I said listen we're going to write this up it's not allowed in it's not it's not allowed in zone 2 or it's not allowed at all it's very difficult for the board to go against the water superintendent and the cemetery director we can set our own opinion which may differ Whoever has ultimate control over it yes it's up to them well I'm sure are tired of me saying this for a couple months now where how are you saying this what is it based upon their opinion is there some science I still have not heard back from a consultant after all these months that's crazy and that's from who's telling us we can't do something they may be perfectly right looking into this the science may be there saying it's prohibitive I'm not sure that's the case or not we can I can tell you there are people who are buried in cemeteries that die from infectious diseases have had radio uh is radioactive isotopes in them for Cancer Treatments there have been a lot of people buried for uh post chemotherapy uh people are put in uh coffins or caskets that are not biodegradable and ones that are biod degradable someone who's put in the ground with a plain Pine coffin that would disintegrates within 5 years or probably less so there is some information things that make sense um and I think the place to start is having some actual structure to work on a regulation I mean that's by history what we've done I never if that was the case I have to tell you when I got when I got when I presented this we just said listen we don't want questions we want I I this was an opportunity for the board to have input on something that I'm going to write or Barry and I will write or then with Town Council to be author to be authors in this that you would be part of that and then then it can be assembled with information I can go ahead and do that but phet said we will be part of that but first we got the we need the structure we need what the state is saying then you what you cannot not fill in then you tell us you can fill in now that there's no exception to a zone two right so if you're if you want want to have a a green burial in a Zone 2 no so we know that's a given now but that those are the kinds of things that might need to be filled in for us specifically like 60 years ago is there any record of what the town said I mean so we are knowledgeable about what has gone on and what someone might bring up um I'd rather be a little proactive about it and have some more information on that background very it's a great question but you just Ed an important word proactive can we go can I have answers to these questions now because you're gonna have you're going to do it after the fact after I write it right you're going to go in and say well we'll fill that in how about we fill it in now how about we fill those things in now because you're going to do it after the fact right it isn't like I'm going to write this and it's going to be my regulation it's going to be your regulation but with good information I can write something that speaks to exactly what each of you want like you're going to have the conversation let's have the conversation you want to have the conversation now wouldn't that be helpful was there a list in the packet of what you're referring to you had you have that list Jay where where is that I didn't get it I did get it in my packet last week um my last meeting but I did hear Jay and I wrote them down and then I wrote down the additions that we made to them but you were provided not this meeting at the last meeting you were provided that package I didn't get it in my packet the one before for tonight it's not either so this list that you're referring to I'm not sure about I wasn't at the last meeting I have the last meetings I'm wondering what what I I still have the last meeting here I didn't have it in my packet I'm telling you not this one the last one the last one I didn't have it in my packet okay yeah might have been two meetings ago okay no it was the last meeting because that's when we discussed it I don't I don't seem to have that in my uh last meeting I don't know why but I mean 13 for instance who is responsible for witnessing the burial that's something I would have remembered I mean that's something very specific um well regardless right that was one of the on let's just down the list sure want to take down the list now sure or not I'm just my point being is this I I I hear loud and clear this is a great conversation filling in the blanks but if I can fill in those blanks before I craft it that would be that would be helpful right would does that seem to make sense okay you're going to have that discussion wouldn't you have it now or or I say at the next meeting before this gets otherwise well well no we're going to adjust it well Town Council is going to be involved in this and those those are billable hours what okay um which I've said before this has been going on for a long time I haven't experienced that here on the board of health that regulations writing them has taken so long or putting this together so there's a bottleneck somewhere um we haven't moved forward uh on this is how I feel um my advice is I wouldn't start bringing Town Council into this right now generally we've had them look at the end of it it'll save a lot of hours it's very expensive for the you know for the people paying taxes here um so I don't think we need Town Council involved right now certainly for the final draft for sure um you know Green burials are allowed in the state one of three states absolutely yeah so we we need to have a regulation now that we have an applicant we have someone so we have to have it enforced and it may be this gentleman who he may not it may not be granted needless to say it'll depend upon some decisions that yes the board will have to make with some advice um like distances for instance or zone two distances probably going to be a key one does it make S am I and I please I'll yield to the board does it make sense to answer to have that information so that we're putting something together CU you say well we put it together and then we'll answer them but wouldn't we answer them and then I put it together you're going to be able to put a lot together with that without our input and then there will be some things that you'll want us to have input on this Mary there's 15 of them there's 15 things you mentioned the glossery that was a great because we added some to no there's 13 there and you added like three others and I get that wouldn't we do that now wouldn't you wouldn't you do that now I mean it's okay with me if it other people go down the list I need a copy of them or we need to you want to State copy the list um Eric you you uh how far did you get when you started I know you you had a pretty good outline that you gave us and what happened with with that well this is the considerations that Jay had in two meetings ago that we discussed last meeting or the two Mee the meeting before this one and we added some too that's what Jay wants the answers to I because some of them are just very generic what's the purpose of a regulation for this one it has to be about home burials and about green burials I mean there some some very genetic thing generic things that are applied to what any regulation tobacco whatever it is um and there's a specific format definitions is one of the things that Eric asked to be added to the considerations there be a glosser no question about that these I thought that can be done I mean you don't we don't us to do that no by all means this is this is not a contentious discussion it was to say this was to help us what I put forward was to say this will help us put a better product together so the board may say yeah you have input before it's being done that's how regulations get that you do this with tobacco you've done this in my short tenure you did this with body art you've done this with the body piercing you had input to say okay well this is one of the things that I think then that then it was written absolutely I thought we're going to follow that model and if we're not I have no problem with that and we'll do that after the fact it see it seems a little disjointed to me but that's just my opinion is um would it be possible for um with Mary's suggestion would it that be something Barry and I could get together and put together I I would want to be part of that okay well you as well I mean then we could just put something together that could bring back to the board is that something that I I I put it to everyone on the board I just thought thought in fact and again the there's some questions that that I would have trouble answering that are listed here as far as specifics go and I have trouble as well I don't sit on the board I I'm the staff side of things I've been a chairman of a board I've been a chairman in the community so I understand that I thought this would be helpful to help us craft something that reflected the board's intent sure that's all some of these items seem if we do come up with answers would be would seem arbitrary right no not not anything specific toward what you wrote here but just the fact that there aren't answers and I don't think there are some answers that are listed here that we could thank you Larry I had a long meeting I had a long meeting with the DPW director and he said I'm going to tell you I've been trying to research this there's not a lot of information or research on this exactly from Jeff K's mouth that's exactly it okay but so if we just made a proposal you I'd be glad to help out with that so appr bring it back and then obviously we're going to have to find some arbitration when we make these rules my intent that clearly was my intent to say we need we need to start shaping this somewhat what is the thought of the board the policy decision makers I it's it's a 2 acre minimum oh no it's 0.5 acre minimum I I don't know we some kind of if we're going to say a 2 acre minimum we have to have some basis for saying that right you can't just pull it out of the air or even if we say a quarter acre you know and it's going to depend on the on the the boundaries and what it's located near and how the lot is you know is it like tangular or you know there's just a lot of things that personally I don't think they're we're dealing with toxic waste here I think the biggest issue is going to be neighbors coming into a community and I mean in a neighborhood and somebody decides they want a a a green burial I that's an issue that really could be contentious in a neighborhood so I think that's something we need to address but well in number 12 he did put down is an a butter notification required how and certified I've never heard of certifying in a butter notification but anyway I mean we haven't had that come across I don't think my my comment was certified letter so that they we so they I just again this was a list to say you certify certify a letter to make sure yes in fact Reon those are those are discussions those are things that paragraph might not have been included in unless I get the board's input on this that's was my intent here to get the board's input so we have something think the comprehensive at least a starting point that's what I was hoping for yeah I I think I think um it makes better use of our time if we're all going down the list together okay and and try to fac you're saying we have to formulate a list well we've got we've got questions J took the time and we can start so will green burials home burials be allowed in zone two no no we know that okay um is want this back you you need this figure is an approval sign off from DPW required sounds like it is to yes I think according to the state it would be right didn't we get sort of an equivocal response from them when when that when they were consulted before or did they have a definite that was not it was somewhat arbitrary and somewhat you should be checking with the water supplier is the word they use the water supplier in the town sounded like they were passing the bu there well I'll hold my comment on that right it was going back to our water department here all right but even the water department they made a statement they didn't really have any basis for that it seemed like it was just their gut feeling that this shouldn't be allowed right that doesn't I'll speak for myself not for the board that doesn't meet standards to have someone give you an opinion if it's not based upon some science here which may come down to you're talking about waste you know toxic waste well it's is there any concern yeah is is there any concern of that the people who are buried with all kinds of diseases okay um and all kinds of treatment modalities well the difference there though Doc is that they're in an enclosed situation when they're buried they're not it's not a green burial correct but once again depends upon what they're encased in in other words whether it's mahogany or it's Pine makes a big difference for years if they're in a metal casket it could last 140 years probably more um if someone's wrapped in a uh in Wicker or if they're bombed aren't they EMB bombed there's a lot of that we think about is that leaking into our water systems not only that that's going to kill most organisms that we're concerned about it's going to prevent Decay that sort of thing so I mean I don't know the toxicity of what they use forides toxin yeah yes it is right um but there that's an ENC case situation I think I think they're in sealed cases yeah but someone in a traditional Cemetery may be buried in a coffin that will disintegrate in three years and whatever is in there will disintegrate and go into the environment would that fall under the rules of the cemetery I mean is that is that part of the that our when we make these conclusions is that going to be part of our determination or is that something that's totally separate from this issue in other words you're talking from a c a cemetery situation right you're not talking about a green burial no our regulations we were talking about home burials and green burials is really what it is right so it in some ways it's it's separate what all I'm saying is in traditional cemeteries um a lot of what the remains is sort of is in the environment in a couple of years that's not the issue we're dealing with I'm just saying not to ignore the fact it's happening anyway in formal cemeteries and not just in backyards um for home burials We could decide maybe a biodegradable coffin is a requirement that's up to us think we could be more lenient than we think we can I agree with you strongly I just think might be more of a neighbor issue than anything else but but again we still should go through this list let let's let's yeah let's do it because as I said we're dragging it out let's see if we can facilitate it's a buffer zone required from the boundary of zone two and wetlands so this is now it's not in zone two or but is there a buffer zone required Zone too right or Wetlands or thank you Wetlands what do you thought what you know I think that there are strict regulations on Wetlands already in place that we probably could just copy in other words Conservation Commission pardon from the Conservation Commission right yes yeah I think they would give us pretty good idea I know uh like there were strict regulations with Cranberry Bogs as we were just dealing with and I think that that would apply as just this issue we just had here would apply sort of to the same circumstance it would because I put a shed up in my backyard and I had to go to the wetlands Conservation Commission right to uh to get permission you know and show that exactly I had the variance that they required so I think that would be an issue we'd have to have a an approval from the Conservation Commission would that how you mean for our numbers what we want to put in number right for what it so that would be a blank in the regulation it's a blank and we we have to figure out is it 200 ft or whatever it is well we wouldn't have to figure that if we ask them we're yeah we're going to lift that we to cut and paste that from the Conservation Commission right and that's that'll be written yep absolutely no Britney can tell me that is there a minimum property size required for a home burial that's kind of going to depend too on the conservation and that will depend also on on the um you know any required boundaries or buffers that's a bunch that's a bunch of  might have a small piece of property that doesn't allow you the buffer zone for doesn't allow setbacks yeah so it would come down to well here's the requirement I guess someone could apply and last for a variance and would be the board either granted or not that's traditionally what's happening like with title five systems uh we have distances there new regulations yes we give variances under certain circumstances is so then you you think there would be no minimum property size required no I'm not saying that I'm just thinking no I'm just I'm just asking just trying to think it out loud yeah it seems as if the property were small enough the setbacks would be the hurdle right that they would encounter first right like from the neighbor or from the house or from the swimming pool or you know so then that would take care of it itself so how would you word that I think in most cases how would you word it setbacks from property lines yeah well property lines house um swimming pool sep septic you have to include all those all those then we'd have to give them setbacks that we have some basis to give them that's Larry that's number eight distances required from dwelling septic system Garage pool shed right that's those are some of the I originally was just boundary setbacks Hill you brought up a good point about the septic system can't be up against some as property line because on the other side you've got all those considerations have to be be given in then I think what would say is the property size required for home burial depends on on meeting the requirements for setbacks in the property on the property you know and are the various setbacks required for and we could say septic system garage Head Pool Etc because it really that like you said Eric that's going to dictate whether or not they can do it yeah Eric that's a great point that makes a lot easier yeah um so we're not here think well it's got to be a quarter acre or half acre or whatever yeah you're you're absolutely right so take out the property size and just use setbacks I'm sorry so take out the property size and just use setbacks right exactly y the property just has to be large enough to allow the the required setbacks instead of a you know an actual number size is there um what is the allowable location of the plot on the property front side back I think I can't imagine anyone wishing to do that in the front yard but if you have a really large piece of property IC that's where he wanted his I don't think that should be an issue for the board of hell it is he's saying that he's Jay's thinking it's a consideration and I agree because you know it could very well become an issue with who with what Butters well get that's the issue with and why why would we want them to even get that far and you know find out that oh we don't allow that anyway or but that would be an arbitrary ruling though I would they bar Mr MCC wanted his in his front yard he did want in the front yard but he came to us with it in the backyard no it's in the front right corner of his property where where he had won it I thought it setbacks and and Community I mean neighbors that it should shouldn't be an issue if the neighbors are okay with it I agree and um what determines what I mean why wouldn't why would you have a problem with the front yard why do they why can't they allow the front yard pardon why why can't you allow boats or trailers in your front yard I don't know well but it's it's in the ground you're not we're not talking about a headstone or anything true that's another that'll be you know coming up that's another question markers of what are we going to put down a height or what you can do for sure that's relevant yeah my suggestion in a in a in this situation in a green burial in a home would be a flat marker right right and and the the setbacks might dictate anyway that maybe it couldn't be done in the backyard but the front yard is I mean some people if it's a flat Mar like a piece of Flagstone or something like that wouldn't even be an issue so then let's say um it can be either place either anywhere in the yard that meets the setback requirements yeah this all very helpful to meet Larry I do want to say is that okay does that sound all right anywhere in the yard that meets the setback requirements the one thing that Town Council did in my response to say listen I've been trying to shape this he says I'm glad to help you with this he said be very careful with markers that's a Second Amendment right people get to you get to mark it the way they want well so it so I'm only I'm not being cont I'm just saying you said a flat marker I don't know I don't know that you can say that well we'll try to I I I think we should try to I'm just that's the one the one response back from town Council was exactly that second amendment maybe he can tell us again then what's the second amendment I thought that was Speech something right to free speech right to free speech need you can holler it from a headstone or that was the first amendment wish bring it on a little footstone the second amendment was right to bear arm maybe I'm incorrect it was freedom of freedom of speech spee right one you have to he said be very careful dictating that individual plot or family plot that means how many bodies right understand on the property y for sure and again if you've got a huge property yeah I think it definitely would would be a cause for like a variance that maybe that we we'd have to have some sort of a variance I think in that situ they could for more than one all right so it's understandable individual it's understandable that you could have Legacy properties where it could become a family could it could escalate upwardly adjust right okay we'd be thinking more like you'd want acreage right rather than right our property lines line set back yes um it also I think we'd have to put in something of who can be buried there in other words um just CU your neighbor wants to be buried there I mean we we may want to set some standards there family right uh yeah old girlfriend after sixth grade girlfriend land owner okay um should someone be able to have their best friend buried in their backyard no family family relative okay okay people okay with that what about a spouse that's family yeah definitely yeah significant others not formally married what how do we handle that two people have been living together forever whatever a Varian come to us and talk about it I think we got leave that question open yes exactly that can be a variance we can talk about it yeah cuz you know if somebody yeah I I don't think that that that could be such a broad issue y okay so are property line setbacks required yes I would think so but what are they going to be again this maybe some latitude here I can check with the building department and see what some of their setbacks are garage 10 ft things of that nature from from property lines it may give you a starting point if I go into the building code and and they may be to I'm not I'm not feeding you the answer I'm just saying it's something to consider why did they have have that so we can I can also get information on septic system setbacks also for us which is the next one required distance from dwelling septic system garage shed pool so so my question in that case why would septic systems even be an issue it's a septic system well it's a question you know right it's it's a question do we even need to include septic system I I think we I mean just from the standpoint of execution I mean at the time of burial you you'd want to be sure that you're not disrupting other other things in that you are I mean yeah I mean you should know that regardless but right well you shouldn't we should have it so you can't interfere with the right IC System or the leeching field I think the setback would be helpful in deterring a burial you know in close proximity when a septic system fails and and the burial is right next to it and they have to they have to put your system in so I think some setbacks are relevant yeah so we would just have to come up with a number so here have a blank or a fewless we want to make decision on feet right now don't have to you're going to want something we can go into we can go into Title Five and look at some of that there is that there's also Reserve areas things of that nature if if an area is is identified as a Reserve board I want to tell you may never get this again you may never in your time on this board see one of those but we're going to have exct we're going to have and the variance is going to be important I hope we do after all this but the variance is going to be an important part of it as well right but so you have to have some latitude mess with your huh garage shed I don't see the difference I don't I don't see any reason to worry about that the pool is that now yeah I mean I think you want to be it's not under the shed or under the garage right or just put it under the shed and don't bother us oh yeah no variant needed um so you look like you're no I just wanted yeah what was garage they don't okay all right do you I don't think that matters so the only make any difference the pool I don't know does that I don't have a pool so the pool would definitely I think there are setbacks for septic system there are water lines underneath I mean they're running heat out there you know somehow to heat a pool I mean it may want to know where some of these things are pools leak the front yard's looking better and better yeah it's 20 in Title 5 it's 20 ft for a pool fr aseptics system okay right very 20 20 ft okay not saying that's your number but there's a reason there there's a methodology behind the reason the reason behind it it gives exactly right it just gives you a reference the reason behind it if the pool leaks doesn't go out that buffer gives you it doesn't get into the system to interrupt the system perfect perect same with uh okay I think we could use that as a right sounds good Define area of non-disturbance what size around the burial site my thought was this a 12 4x8 is is a is a standard burial plot well we want to go further than that so we're not digging and disrupting what might what completely arbitrary I don't there's no guideline there's no standard you're going to be able to pull upon on that by 4 by8 line I think the 4x8 fine starting 4 by8 is is a traditional right yeah that's not that's not an area of non disturbance that's just the the plot itself the plot now what beyond that is the area you have an area beyond that that should not be disturbed area of non-disturbance what would be a reason to that what what do you think would be a reason to that for non-disturbance at larger area any thoughts anyone I Charlie do you have any thoughts on that why we would not want to have couple of feet on each side yeah on each end yeah it gives you so you're not disturbing what 10 by 12 I think it's more just a realistic safety factor and other words to not disturb the that's all yeah there's be some yeah 10 x 12 now I mean we might think more of it 10 x 12 we might think about it some more when it comes back to us in in print who is responsible for ongoing maintenance the land owner yeah right the land owner yeah what type of plot markers are allowed just in ground flat markat horizontal you know just horizontal markers right flat yeah similar to that like the um National Cemetery yes right yeah material flat mean flat meaning grade flush you could right over is that what that's what you're saying right yeah so what it would be stone or some kind of the marker yeah or metal could be no I think it be should be permanent don't you think it should be something permanent permanent would be a iron marker but would be I don't think it's not going to degrade iron would degrade yeah I would say stone stone okay Stone some type of stone Natural Stone concrete or stone oh concrete yeah do we need to designate a material well we're these are considerations that Jay has proposed we answer so we're trying to answer them if you think not just say that you don't think it matters well I'm plastic you want somebody to have a plastic one it doesn't make a bit of difference to me right really I kind of think the next homeowner may want to know where this is perhaps I think there needs to be some sort I think there should be a permanent marker there right right so it should be I think a stone material that' be the safest that to get started you okay just say that that's fine yeah okay okay um isn't a butter notification required yes the same way we require a Butters to be notified for other kinds of issues I don't know why they have to be certified though it was just better certif ified I we don't they don't usually to make sure that they are want make proof that they were notified gee I didn't know I never I never got that he brought in the signed responses from the letter there's nothing that says he had to do that there's no he just did that on his own proactively well I know but then the certified one means that he's going to send it through the mail certified the mailman gets it to their house they sign it right I'm not saying Mr MCC just wrote something and brought it in I I don't know but I'm pretty sure he didn't do we usually require that for like subjects like variances any yes yes certified letter then all right certified letter to voters like I sent the the Wilson certified letters right because I knew once I got them once I got it back I knew that they were notified so okay who's responsible for I'm sorry what happens to that certified letter okay it goes outen bring the green cards right aren't they green that say that it's been m yes I've seen them come back and be handed in that they received it now does that that they did send the letter out to the it gives them the notification that right something's going to happen and if they want to appeal it or they need to do so by right that definitely has to be part of it they'll have the opportunity to come here and give their reasons for saying yes or no I mean that's crucial for the public right so in the application process there would be a here the individual the public is allowed to commit a Butters or anyone actually but they can come in and and appear before the board in support or in an objection question and if we needed to we could have a a sample a butter notification in the policy it's part of the guideline to give someone who's who wants to do all this yeah copy so they don't have to hasn't dealt with bureaucracy creatively write something yeah have them fill in the address and stuff like that and location yeah and the date who is responsible for witnessing the barrier and that was just a question should there be somebody a Barry who well actually the funeral directors um have they have to witness in like in cemeteries they have to witness but this isn't a cemetery that's why it was brought up who would Witnesses okay so I I don't think the cemeter I mean the cemetery directors or the funeral homes are going to no they're not going to be involved excited about this so no they're not going to be involved we know that so we need we need a we would need a witness that we would I don't think I think we should well who would witness it would we take turns as Board of Health members I I think that falls on the STA agent of depart I think it falls on the staff I think a member of the staff a health department staff member would witness the burial okay I'm fine with that yeah yes don't you think it should be some to say that it followed your regulations right right they have something in front of them hear the five things are they doing it or not doing it for sure it's a big responsibility this is a delicate issue for a family or for whatever sure I mean yeah we do we do this with the tit that's the analogy maybe is poor but an engineer goes out to witness the inspect the the title five the inspection and they certifi they they give us a certified letter that in fact yes it was put it was built in accordance with the engineered plans okay someone's going to have to say yeah I think it falls on someone in the staff that's some accountability there then okay so then one of the other additional things were the um definitions but you can do that J because that's already in much of the state material okay and then another addition that we had had to do with communicable diseases um and we need to hear from the water Department's consultant on that I I have asked I I will ask again Hill has been on the on the request I had a meeting with Lori I will ask again she won't give you the name with the consultant I just said could you in fact connect and it was it was to connect Hillard with that water consultant because we've had this discussion about this a lot of discussion about this I can go back to when the email came out the concerns on that this consultant does but we want to hear from him because we want to be evidence-based scientific information I will ask again that brings up another Point how deep are we state regulation that has to be at least a minimum of 3T and 4T above the water table that's state has that's one of the few that's been decided I think that answers your uh to contagious disease issue I think that any if we observe those regulations that would take care of the any concerns about and we I think in general don't have a lot of concerns about that specifically but but the water department unfortunately has raised this issue do they have any basis as a noo basically yeah I I'm wondering what their basis is for that right and that's what we'd like to know they I will I will I think I'm almost say verbatim it says they wanted to error on the side of caution precautionary and that that was all there wasn't a scientific there wasn't a epidemiology to it or you know a calculus to it they didn't have that it was very generic I think you might have all have seen it there are microorganisms and things that viruses that could possibly be it was just to say and this is our water supply that was it but Hillard has asked and I have asked for Hillard to connect them um and I will do that again tomorrow I I think if we observed as as Barry said the water table Etc that's not going to be an issue and all of these other considerations I think should be showing that you know this is not a concern we're not going to have the cause of death in all these people nor do we have any any Cemetery not everyone has an autopsy with tox studies or anything you don't know you know very often just certific say cardiopulm rest right that's the last thing U with nothing else above it okay but I think you're right just about the distances and so on so we also added um the material material for the um coffin Y and that should in that's in D regulations actually it talks about specifically that's wicker basket it said a shroud it it it DP had certain regulations now did it list an it wasn't an exhaustive list I'm going from memory here but it was like three or four things maybe more a few more but it it it delineated what is allowable if they had addressed it y i I think biodegradable is something that should be in there there a catchphrase but then they gave some examples yeah y yep great okay so what were the there be anything about the fill that goes into the around the coffin you think that's an issue I don't think so they put I think they put the what I mean have some other material kind of a pardon like the material when you can't be all clay for example oh okay thought of that sort of thing well is not going to really wor drain at all doesn't the state require a a so a comprehensive soil evaluation evaluation okay so and what does it say then what what does it say about the hydrogeological study that is and that you send that on to D and they evaluate that I I didn't include that do you want a hydrogeological study on that well that's part of if it's required that's one of the original ones anyway from the state what's that you say hydr Hy Mr did provide that he did he did no question he did yeah okay so then that will be required some of them we're going to lift from D some will live from the state right this is now specific to okay I think that should address the water Department's concerns to I don't know is that is that in reference to number two deep is that a typo is that supposed to say D no I I I didn't know no DP is DP W our water supplier oh okay the water supplier and I just pulled that from D saying hey you should you should good idea and they don't say specifically but they should get recommendation from the supplier the water the local water supplier I think they refer to it speaking I mean you just think about it the water department I mean there's no ban on on pouring you know Roundup of uh into our soil right into our aquifer yep um so I mean that's straightforward I mean it's been documented the science it's non- Hopkins lymphoma really is not going to be an issue I really don't think he fast won even talk about we stretch this out on and on but I don't think I hope not right okay so um and I think L you brought up but it kind of got lost a little bit in the conversation went B about 15 minutes ago this is for home burials green right that's the catchphrase period uh you can you do a regular burial on your on your property things like that no it's not it's not being addressed here this is green burials on a on a property right and here are the guidelines this is the glossery for it this is what is required coming for green burial right okay will you include a section that states an applicant as the opportunity to apply for a variance from some of the there definitely going cuz there there going to be lot of terminology in all sanitary they all have words like adequate sufficient things of that nature and it gives latitude and flexibility for the board to decide there's going to be part of that yep yep there would be that I mean I think it should be stipulated that it's final approval by the Board of Health for each case right actually final approval is by the uh selectman right like well I mean yeah but you're a step along you're a step along the way by the Board of Health you're a step along the way final is uh yeah the the governing body they call it of the local town okay anything else you you may have more as you start as you start to go over this there's a starting point okay I'm s I'm sorry I took that way to get to get that way but this is helpful this is helpful it's start to shape it next else you can think of Barry uh an as built an as built as built yeah like a plot plan of where it actually is that's that's part part of the that's in D reg that's in DP regulation so it's actually on the Deep we have those lot of I I don't want to say a lot we there there is some good stuff from DP that we we build upon exactly incorporate y yeah no being a PL is this going to show up on the deed it'll be it'll be on what else do we have going here on this I have a starting point okay good appreciate it okay uhic reduction by law yeah number five here discussion and in the packet um there's special town meeting warrant uh December 9th um specifically at least one of the Articles be brought up there um mention something on it yeah well I would just to Simply say that on uh on the 9th um of December you're also going to hear a little bit of the the cranberry bog that's that's another piece that you're going to hear and these are the same people right same individual I know same individual so um what the Town Administrator has asked and again there's been a series of meetings with ch the chamber and the business community um of how do we accomplish not not to change the goal but to change how the path to getting there and the Town Administrator has asked to push this back one year giving probably four or five months or somewhat of a time frame to reshape the uh it's very broad ranging the how the plastic reduction bylaw is written to give it more specifics just as one through seven Plastics are are to be eliminated they're going to give a little bit definition in education and that it would be implemented on January 1st of uh 26 that's what the the petition that you have in front of you then that'll be at the town meeting on the 9th it's a special town meeting on the 9th now it didn't say anything about in the meantime there would be a group that is formed to look at that hasn't been it doesn't say that is that happening or not it does there's a draft of about half a dozen actually a Board of Health now that you say that I've seen a draft and I can send that to you actually be because you Mary because you were on the the Wastewater your name had been put forward but there's about a I'm going to say a list of about 10 individuals business Community chamber a a representative from the selectman if select board it it isn't finalized but there is a list it's not just that we're putting the date off until the 26th I mean because that's all the the article the uh article on the warrant is saying that it's going to be postponed until the 26 uh two 26 2026 and in and in that inum a policy right better defined right it'd be difficult to enforce the way it is right now no I understand but I'm just saying it isn't doesn't say that but it is going to happen it says in the explanation that the delay in implementation will allow the community to work together with food service establishments and the Chamber to examine feasible Alterna Alternatives it doesn't specifically mention the the action which would be nice but it does say something okay there is a list that's being circulated now okay and who is running that committee is it the person that came forward and offered to lead it no she she would probably be on it oh then he he's a representative on that it is probably going to fall into this office it's probably going to have to be the I would I haven't been told but I I would I wouldn't be surprised if they're asking the health office to to to bring this committee together so the the select board you mean is okay their discussion had a lot to do with that this was voted on initially this is back in 2023 April or May that was passed so the select board had some concerns about uh reversing the vote essentially so that's what really the essence of this will be right um giving more time yeah the select board most of the members were concerned about that it had already been yes and if it um unless the public voted no we want to keep it as is then they would you know they would go along with what the public has voted on I mean that's that was consensus you agree I mean you were there with me Hiller I you articulate that fine that's that's exactly it's very difficult to put a board a select board in a position of reversing what the community has voted for you have to be very care and and this board had the same had the same concern right and rightfully so to say wait no okay wait but is it thoughtful how this was done if you remember that wasn't that's not how typical public policy is done it was it was put forward as a Citizens petition uh very vague non-specific very difficult to en force it did pass but to pull back to say wa there's a better way to get there incrementally achievable measurable um and that's the goal that's to say but um I uh how that was written is very broad range you all read that it it'd be very difficult to look that I I don't even know that we could educate the you know a small business on a coffee shop uh a big the r big retailer it'd be difficult for us to enfor to enforce that to even interpret that what that means the seven types of plastic they can't be well no I I think we have to I I I carry with me this is just one the fouth but there's there's a number of of different communities that are working their way through this now and there are variances that they may come to the board here and ask for well there is no suitable alternative biodegradable could we get a variance on you know a dispenser for cream cheese we can't we don't have anything else that can that can hold the product it's Integrity uh the way it needs to be and convenient for the consumer um so there's things like that that that's all going to have to be part of this and and it'll take some time but it isn't just kick down the road same regulation a year from now that's not the intent by any means any other comments on that um we did discuss the minutes but I guess we didn't vote on accepting it there's some possible Ed edits that be made or not Mary you want to edit anything or not Monique has a yes so um I agree with what you're saying but the minutes were written as according to how they were said on the video so are we editing what was said or the meaning of what was said well the first one was that I didn't hear Jay say that the policy was the responsibility of the board to to do I didn't hear him say that in the meeting it was it was on the video um he didn't say that specifically but I did put a quote in there of what he said okay what did he say um right there where he said that Barry Town Council and himself is available to provide any relevant information to the board um in making the decision but the final bylaw would remain with the remain within the board's responsibility okay and to me that means to pass you know to to approve absolutely you vote on this right I it's my responsibility to craft this for you to look at you filled in a lot of blanks tonight okay for that it's the staff's responsibility and mine specifically to give it to the board to amend it and then adjust it and then actually then vote for it and you've done this with toac you've done this with other regulations it's it's your policy I I don't I haven't been appointed to the board you folks are um and then I just wanted to have the additional considerations that we had added to Jay's list of 13 SP specifically mentioned and I can't I I'll email them to you because right now I don't have my I thought I grabbed it when I left the house my not okay um I just didn't add them to thank you um because again that that added to what you needed from us if we're saying these are some considerations that we have then you need us to talk about it some more um and then the zone two um it wasn't it was stated that I had requested that research be done whether or not there could be an exception or variance to the zone 2 um that was answered tonight the answer is no but I had asked that question okay so that's that's what I have okay okay so I move that we accept the minutes of the um 4th Board of Health meeting the second comments okay uh any other discussion on I'm obain I wasn't there so all in favor passing the minutes I okay that pass is fine so it's old new business number seven there anyone I just asked Mary sent on about vaping and you have that you have that in front of you I thought fantastic I I did see it on the news um I've read a couple things on it but this was very helpful what you said concerning yes yeah that it is a concern um when we worked with Dr Spain back what a couple of years ago you know he said you he said my background initially was chemistry and he said if you are inhaling hot anything he said I'm just certain it's doing something to your lungs so you know from the beginning people have been saying this is just simply not a a solution that it is risk free um I have I have one comment um I had mentioned about rack and indeed this evening I had to leave the meeting early to make this meeting um one of the things that was um that they didn't completely discuss was a handout that they distributed with the meeting agenda on the pumping station number two and it's kind of a question and answer so I I'd be happy to send that out to you all um you know it's on my email okay and uh because it's it's exhaustive and I don't know about you but I'm getting some questions from the community about the issue I think that it's probably all over social media um and people are that's in response to social media questions yes you're absolutely right okay so I I'll I'll I'll send it out um the second thing about rack is um right now now or what I've been doing is coming to the the um town hall and sitting in my car and and zooming in to the rack meeting so that I can be here in time to get to the Board of Health meeting and when I had looked into the possibility of my being able to come into the town hall and sit with my iPad and do that I was told that wasn't possible I would like for that to be made possible for me because I don't want to have to sit out in the car in the cold and the also the um the last two meetings I've been kicked out of the meeting I don't you know I don't know what's the problem with the connection and then I have to get back in um the microphone that they have for the meeting not everyone is able to speak into it as well as others so some of what what is going on is um practically indecipherable but I'm thinking that if I could come in here and sit with somebody's uh equipment I don't care it doesn't have to be mine and then I can zoom into the rack meeting then I could um be a little bit more comfortable doing that and I did let the chairman know that our meeting times had been changed to five so that I would have to leave if the rack meeting went on on Fine Mary can I just ask just so I'll talk to it tomorrow on this um is it do they coincide completely the first and the third yes they have they they're exactly that okay so and and for a while they changed it and then they moved back to it and I think it was and right now they meet at the DPW building so um and your hope is to would you still just so logistic wise you said you said well we could provide an iPad or somewhere for you you wanted to come here listen to the meetings and then move segue right into the board Health meetings instead of sitting out in the parking lot in the cold and the dark now yeah but you're not you're not down you're not down at DPW doing this you want to be here come in because there's not enough time to get from right yeah now I understand okay okay who told you you couldn't do it here I'm sorry who told you you couldn't do it here if I might ask it okay that there's no way to do it so it might have been because I talking about my own personal equipment and maybe I just need to use somebody sits part of the system I don't know but I would like for someone to find out if I can't do I'll find answer in the that seems solvable lighted up area warm thank you what what a rack they just it's a zoom call isn't it is a zoom problem no I mean it's in person no no to zoom zoom in on a meeting it's not it's not something behind a firewall it's a zoom meeting right I'll going to find out more right we're going to get you warm okay appreciate the effort going through that's for sure um any other old and new business I have some if you don't mind Mr chairman um the health department has given out just this year probably close to 20,000 test not kits but test like some of them have two in a box some have five in a box um it's a very we high demand I didn't know if I could get more I reached out to my state guy and normally I get like five to eight cases at a time I actually bumped it up to 12 cases this time so hopefully with the next few days sometime this week we'll be getting a lot more free covid test kids we put them upstairs we put them in down here we give them to the uh um the senior center we give them to the local libraries also so we do distribute them throughout the the town good so anything else anyone no number eight adjournment on I move we adjourn second okay all in favor raise your hand say I okay thank you everyone thanks Jay for putting up with us very helpful I do appreciate it thank good you kid me hey good luck tomorrow recording stopped yes you saw what's on display about these two brothers your they Hade I don't know who was there from the bog but they had people from the bog there that see you don't need that thing after all and that was part of the garble and all that I didn't they sitting back from the table did you get to see the visual the picture of what e e e e e e for