##VIDEO ID:fTDvdbJ66Ys## recording in progress well uh welcome to the January 6 2025 actually is the correct year for the agenda uh this is the armor Board of Health and our mission is to make yth a healthier place so let's get started for this year let's start with attendance as usual and Eric are you present present Mary present Larry present Charlie yeah okay I'm Hiller I'm here so that's pretty good we have a quorum on that uh public comment which is standard procedure here if there's anyone would like to come forward call in Now's the Time um there there is someone I don't know if they're raising their hand or not but there's someone on the board well welcome to speak up turn something on come the mic people could be calling in or watching on Zoom okay D de coffee I see is the name you're you're muted if you're trying to get into the board right now are they just attending and not want to speak or just one quick question when are you going to get rid of this so okay I don't see them reason here okay well as you can see it's a pretty thin envelope for us here and the first item is number two and that's the green burial draft approval listed there um everyone had the I guess the latest draft in their packet and hopefully spent some time on it to start um working on it and see if we can finish this thing up um if anyone has any general comments we could do that or we could just start on the top page one and work our way down paragraph by paragraph do anyone have any preference how to go about it if Mr Mr chairman if I could while the board is going to be doing their final edits and if it's this meeting or the next whenever that is done I'd like to just lay out a scenario where then that would your your final edits would then go to Town Council Town Council will review that because they say just so so you are aware so there's a Cadence to that then the public hearing right um then there's a waiting period an appeal process and in that inim once you finished and it counil we'll then put the application together with the fee with with the with the town select and those things will happen but right now we're waiting for your edits then Town Council then a hearing then approval with you know a waiting period and then it would be enacted okay okay so let's go Page by Page yeah okay first paragraph anyone underneath green burial Green Home burial regulations anyone comments things they want to change add delete whatever well I guess we are going to be deleting that last sentence below is a draft for local Health regulation where are we up on top you mean the word draft yeah the first paragraph underneath Green Home bu yeah that would be removed yeah okay then the second um I would I would um I would just reverse the two you put your microphone down a little bit certainly thank I would reverse the two paragraphs under section one I'd start with green burials are allowed in Massachusetts and add to the last sentence where it says local regulation I would add and must be met and approved by the regional D office for each burial request because I did very carefully look at the um say say that again now are you working on what is President the second paragraph or what will be the first paragraph people it's all up to you but I would yes the second paragraph is what I'm working on which I would make the first paragraph but the second paragraph I would add to that last sentence and must be met and approved by the regional D office for each burial request I did look very carefully at the handouts and that's in there and we don't have that in okay well that sounds crucial so are you referring to the last sentence Mary yes okay yeah added on to this local regulation is where we're adding that on to to we're adding it on to the last sentence under this second paragraph okay did you want to word it again mayor yes so how would that work the whole sentence the whole sentence the first part is there D regulations and requirements are separate and in addition to this local regulation then I would add and must be met and approved by the regional D office for each burial request I'm fine with that okay I mean I don't think that was clear no I I had a note too that must be that the D regulations and requirements must be followed so I think that's fine then I have um just a um just one second Mary how do people feel about switching the paragraph order there in other words should that second paragraph be first and then underneath it will say section one where will section one that that term go just want to get it right I mean just that Jay Jay's making note so um what would the first paragraph look like is there something that goes before green burials no no it would just start with green burials are allowed in Massachusetts blah blah blah blah blah and then it would say the purpose of this regulation is to establish local standards for green burial practices so you start with the wider one the state and and that we have to approve and d and then I would say the purpose of this regulation is to establish local standards for green bual practices to me that just was more a logical okay um progression of of what this was all about but I don't care really you have a question on that I'm going to I'm going to flip the order and we're going to add to that sentence or that par that on that sentence board agrees right the the only thing I had concerns about is shouldn't we specify an issue that before this process even Begins the applicant needs to go to the um uh DPW is it the DP d right to get approval before we even begin this process we have that approval before we start we have not said that no we've not said that but isn't that the issue we ran into just recently with this application the Cadence right they kind of set us back till we got it approved well then we would have to say must and must be first met um met and approve or not met but reviewed and I sorry I said met but I met reviewed and approved by the regional D office for each bual burial request so if we just had first then that would cover that but the applicant needs to complete that hurdle before he even comes to the or she to right but that's we're not addressing the steps of it here necessarily they're further on down you know into the so we make that clear to right it might be ambiguous to to applicants in the future okay then I then I just say and first um must be reviewed by the regional D office for each bway request just add in first and I think that would cover it initially then the other thing uh just to keep the same I'm not yet I'm just still I a comment there on what under section one which is currently that first paragraph even though we've switched it on the second sentence it says green burial practices on private property does it have Can can a commercial property be private or does Private say it's residential do we need the word residential I don't know the answer to that mean some someone owns commercial property personal instead of private I don't know the right term but I think something may need to go there um oh maybe not mean it has to have a house on it a resid could it be a like a business location I think we're trying to my idea is not to have it make sure it's not a commercial right right space woman I don't know practice on private private residential I would assume it could residential property I'm sorry so you're you're looking to add private residential property at least residential is the doesn't mean that was just my thought doesn't mean it's correct I like private resal yeah yeah okay fine let just add it in that's I had a little arrow right there for residential fit in fine the other question I had here is green burials are we going to capitalize it or not because it changes depending upon where we are in this do we want capital G capital B consistently or is is it something that doesn't need capitalized it doesn't need capitalizing okay so but on this title it does because it's a title but right yeah in the you'll see through different areas sometimes it's capiz sometimes it's not yeah I don't think it it deserves it either so it'll be small G small you know lowercase G and B unless obviously it's starting a sentence okay um just quick on say it's I think we might address when you say resident Green Home burials home right so home like a commercial property wouldn't be where you live it's not bad to restate it again but you know I don't think I think the lineage and in all the literature it's talking about information on home and home burials and not on a commercial property right um but but we can say it again but I do think it's spelled out pretty clearly that these are Green Home burials and I would take out that slash have to green and just have green home burials okay now where this is the last sentence under the purpose and scope this regulation applies to Green Home burials but there's a slash between green and home and I wouldn't put that in there I'd just say Green Home Green Home yep okay I think that's when we hadn't changed the name yet I think Eric had it y i I had a just a small thing uh looking for input but section one purpose and scope the purpose of this regulation is to establish local standards for green burial practices on private property to protect Public Health yada yada yada I didn't know if we wanted to add a comma after on private property I don't know if anyone really cares but for some reason I thought there should have been a comma there I don't think there needs to be not necessary okay anybody the purpose really we're not voting on every single thing burial practices on private property to protect Public Health seemed like a like a secondary statement to me but doesn't matter um that that sentence is now going to include the word residential private private residential property res proper but but it's well that's right so the purpose of it is to provide C green excuse me the purpose of this regulation is to I'm going to read it as it's printed right now yeah okay the purpose of this regulation is to establish local standards for green burial practices on private residential property to protect Public Health preserve the environment and ensure the ethical and respectful handling of human remains that sounds okay okay versus the purpose of this regulation is to establish local standards for Greenberg IAL practices on private residential property pause to protect Public Health pause preserve the environmental preserve the environment pause it just seemed like it warranted a a pause um but I'm not an English teacher no I don't think it does okay okay fair enough we'll leave it then as is um are we done with section one yes we are okay section two let's go can I just I added one of the edits from the last time was that last sentence and did that does that capture encapsulate everything when it says regulations do not apply to Creation that's the last sentence yes and that was that enough yes I think yeah okay I think so all right definitions section two um just to keep the the the format the same additional items cross off the no and just say additional items that are not allowed to be buried with or on the body so that same syntax as the rest of this section is so no additional items where are you on under additional items section two yes cross off the no okay additional items that are not allowed to be buried with or on the body parentheses jewelry or personal items just to keep the syntax the same as the other definitions that's all put no are right that are that so are not just start with additional items that are not allowed to be buried with or in the or on the body jewelry or personal ons that's to keep it the same way you have stated the other definition yeah but but then you're stating jewelry or personal items as the items that are not allowed to be buried and you're leaving it but you're leaving it open to what other things are allowed to be well what do you want to list every single thing no but the way that it's currently written no additional items are allowed to be buried with or on the body no because this is a definition though this is a definition human remains the body of a deceased person shroud a length of clock National burial site a designated area casket um additional items can well can't you just items that are not allowed to be buried with or on the body including jewelry or personal items can I just an explanation that's not really saying what additional items are right those are two different well it says personal items jewelry or personal items a personal item can be a teddy bear it can be a piure so anything can I ask does additional items belong in definitions should it be somewhere else in the body of this no no I think it's fine okay well I'm just suggesting that we say additional items are not allowed to be buried with or on the body because this isn't rather than saying additional items that are not allowed to because then you're you're you're making a statement okay of what's not I got you okay you're right no I agree there additional items are not allowed to be buried with on the body additional items and I'd say including Jewel rate yes I would say that including I can tell you right now one issue we have to deal with is jewelry yes the people have rings on that don't come off so it's going to be out there it's going to be something we'll have to address at some point variance that's a variance yeah so um so so how how exactly I'm just how does how does that s how does that I don't think it's changing what we're doing right now change anything there so additional items how does that read it reads addition items are not allowed to be buried with or on the body including jewelry or personal items okay and I have one other add-on um or discussion item in the um the the state material it talks about a gravel liner we don't see anything about yeah I I I wrote down that do we need to put that in there somewhere as a definition and then it'll be up on top I have it under green burial the first under Ians adding a grave liner I went to a a funeral recently and basically there there's the hole is there and there was sort of a a dark tarp like um cloth of something that was put into the hole and the casket was in dropped in there so that's considered a grave liner a membrane of some sort yeah not you know we don't want something that's synthetic there not biodegradable so that's the reason I I had added to the first one the green burial uh grave liner as something else right or vault or grave liner caskets comma vaults or grave liners right right correct are not allowed correct grave liners right so where are we and the other thing on green burial same place first item under section two definitions green burial um and we Ed the word avoids there should that be prohibits which which you a b in other words a burial me method that avoids the use of involing fluids is that the right word or should be prohibit no I think it's a void void I think that comes from the states yep right somebody's lifted off the state I I don't I I I don't if you just direct point me to where you're putting the the liner I didn't I miss that where did you put the liner comment it would be like before cast or after caskets where it says caskets or vaults comma allowing the body so it's just putting it in in the line of those so take out Cas the or after caskets so caskets comma grave liner comma or bolts or yeah um I going had one other Jay you have that got it okay just thank you tell us to slow up if we need to okay the last item on page one burial a lot here it says defined area where body will be placed um should it be a single body in other words to be defined you can only have one person there or not where one body will be placed yeah to Define that's there's really only one person per lot essentially we do mention that um so that's just we're only at definitions but no I know I mean distance is something you the number of things what a burial lot has to be y yeah under Section Five number seven okay there's a it says the burial plot will consist of a 10x 12 area and will be deemed an area of non-disturbance uhhuh so I suppose that's a maybe a different we should say burial plot under definitions defined where the body will be placed and the undisturbed area around it and that would be the burial plot defined area with by bu right I mean let's be consistent okay are we working on number seven or burial lot I'm not sure we're we're working right now I'm sorry I just I just brought that up because that's where that's where we talk about it again well it's I I don't know if it's referring to the the same thing if the lot is referring to the area of non-disturbance excuse me the plot is listed as a 10 by 12 area but on page one under definitions we don't say burial plot we say burial lot right to find area where body will be placed and we say burial plot again in number three under Section Five but we don't say burial lot anywhere I didn't see it anywhere else so like Eric said I think we need to be consistent so it's say burial plot yeah Eric good point plot plot and we're going to defined area where body will be placed and the undisturbed area around so we include the area of non-disturbance Eric I have a question sure uh don't cemeteries traditionally put bodies in spaces like a family might have a family plot and in a 10 x 12 plot they could certainly have more than one right casket buried there and the state regulations do address that too and I'm trying to figure out where but they do say there can be more than one in the 10x 12 area yeah that that's not a green burial our area refering to cemetery not a green burial so that's different right and this is right and this this is not a cemetery either you know each casket is SE heeld and okay bom and so forth so you could you could put more than number in a plot Cemetery state says number of burials would they got too many people speaking at the time um that would defeat the issue of a green barrier Mr MCC this this this is being handled a little differently really this is a sort of we're essentially finishing up uh this document all right so it's really not incorporating the public at it at this point and at some point I'll certainly allow you to speak for sure um you could have during public comment but at some point but not I don't think uh you should be part of the group right now in other words you're not on the agenda as a speaker and so on it's just not how this is formatted in general at our meetings you've been very patient incredibly patient you see that we've taken things very seriously we're very detailed oriented we don't like to be wrong so I I think I I need you to kind of sit with the public is sitting and I I'll have you come up a little bit later and you can say anything you'd like ask any questions you want I think it's going to be interrupting what we're trying to do okay okay don't go anywhere but have a seat over there and it's just formality okay thank you the state does address it it says number of burials per burial plot the guidance should Define the minimum and maximum number of individual burials that will be allowed in the burial plot a more detailed Hydro geological study and a long-term monitoring plan should be considered for sites which are proposed to accept a large number of green burials so we can say one or you know I know one of the questions we we had asked earlier on was was there any indication that other family members may want to be buried on the property that's a separate issue isn't it Mary then a individual lot we have we have to Define it we have to say it we have this is us to decide deci side is saying that we should we should Define it right I think you know determine what a plot is okay I thought I assumed or my idea was a single right doesn't you know if we want to make it a different number we we we can um someone has a very large piece of property they can have a lot of 10 by 12s you know um but we're talking about 110 by 12 yes right right right yeah I that's different than a cemetery obviously yeah exactly so in the in the mass do of hand out on the first second I believe it's the fourth page there's setback there's a little table setback distance recommendations for green burial sites from private Wells I'm I'm just referencing that because it lists type of facility is is everyone following along right so it says one grave and then it says family burial plot so um going back to our draft regulation what we have listed as a burial lot says defined area where body will be placed that sounds more like a a grave than the burial plot so I don't know if that should be clarified or yeah because it says number of burials per burial plot so right I think we should call it what the grave so yeah I mean a maybe a grave is grave I I I don't know where that definition came from Jay do you the burial lot was that a mass.gov or was that a definition that we you know this has been a culmination of a number of different so I can't I say where exactly I lifted that yeah but one of the things I do if we're trying to get down to how many in number six and I know we're jumping around but we may speak to it on number six we say the requirements only burials for immediate family members are allowed on the property and each burial requires a separate review and approval so that immediately then says there will be no family plots yeah I just I just want to be consistent with it whether it's a lot or a plot and what we're defining as a lot or plot versus grave that's all just want to make sure we're being did you just say that that means that there won't be a family well the board would you have the complete right you have the authority to you're going to look at each one right yeah one at a time right right right so so we're not talking about family exactly the family is not a burial it it could be if the board said we're going to allow this right so then like Eric said that first burial plot we should probably say grave bual plot in section five number seven it specifically States a burial plot will consist of 10 by 12 area and will deemed an area of non-disturbance right so how can you have more than one body in there unless they die simultaneously you you can't you can't so that we're talking about one grave one grave everything's so yeah okay so the 10 x 12 area is is in includes however much space the actual grave site takes up plus any non-disturbance around it you talked about that so of 10t by 4x8 is the remember there was a discussion on that there was a 4 by8 is the is the traditional size and then we said okay the area of non-disturbance let's go out the board said 10 x 12 that makes seems to make sense okay so barrial plot is probably okay okay okay um I'm not sure I know what the answer is yet so under section two the last item here um we just want to add that it under burial plot plot not lot with the p plot defined area where body will be placed in the undisturbed including the area of n disturbance including the area of non-disturbance that's good including we're a body or the body the body okay I'm just trying to singularize it in some way we're a body okay yeah good place including Disturbed area area of non disturbance okay um you okay okay so there'll be one more item there under definitions that would be uh what a grave liner is and I had scribbled in in we didn't we didn't identify we didn't we did not Define vault or or we and do we defined casket but not Vault so we're going to have to Define vault also but but is that even an issue a vault I mean we're not no no we're saying that there can't be such a thing I don't think we need to I don't think we need to Define gra grave liner if we do we have to Define vault also because we're listing that okay I I disagree only that I I didn't know what a grave liner was until I thought of it at this particular funeral I was at that that even existed uh my feeling is most people would know what a vault is and you know certainly at a in a cemetery but um do you have a definition of it do you have a definition for Graveler I had it from someplace an unsealed durable outer material in which the casket is placed at time of burial in the earth that was the definition I unseal SE un sealable unsealed e d so it's U NS e a l d durable outer material which is it's vague to me but that's I saw it in two different documents using the same language so somebody copied from somebody else but in which the cat basket is placed at time of burial in the Earth how do people feel about it doesn't mean we need to put it in just because I'm suggesting it i' I'd go ahead and put it in placee I think it'd be good to include right and we're putting it in as something that's not allowed right it's the definition it correct someone could could have a biod could thank you yes so I was going to say it has it has to beadable sure so can we go over the exactly what we're stating here on the for the definition so in a is the word unsealed Ed unsealed durable outer which is o u t r material in which the casket is placed at time of burial in the Earth the did you say in which the casket casket is placed at the time of burial in the earth we can change any of this this is just what I sco about durable no no because we're saying we don't want graveel saying they don't yeah this is this is a no no it's a grave line or no so this is why we're saying no you said no vaults you want to put Vault definition Mary I mean how do people feel I would frankly I didn't know about vaults until I had to deal with okay than Eric I I Larry Charlie I feel like if we don't I mean there's no way we're going to think of everything okay but if it's not here it's not allowed I think we've already said it's not allowed but we're talking now about defining it what is a vault well we could go on and on about defining things I know but we're only trying to define the things that we've mentioned here the vault is what concrete I don't care you don't have to put there's nothing that can be raised at this site anything markers nothing can be right everything's flush to the ground is this now the marker in general yes in other words obviously a vault would not but you're saying you weren't you would have known I thought a vault was the the big concrete lining of the earth and Grave okay because I've also seen it something that's up okay so then we need to Define it because obviously we're both thinking that wouldn't fit under biodegradable right for sure finding something that's not a lot the vault is typically we talk about is what you're placing the casket in going to use a vault we're saying you can't use one right but now we're going to say for people like me that didn't have a clue what a vault was in terms of burial you know well what what is this VA is that would be another a cement typically a cment liner always underground cuz I was in the impression that there was you could see the top of this thing no okay then I have it wrong okay so decision we need make do put a definition or not yes we need a definition okay you able to pull it up on that or not yeah prefabricated container usually of metal or concrete into which a casket is placed at burial this is from is this from online it would be a vault okay that's a vault right that's what I'm trying to do is get you a definition of Vault okay so so a prefabricated container usually of metal or concrete into which a casket is placed at burial so and that will become part of the yeah I'm good with it definitions okay you're okay with it okay okay uh what don't we say we do the next page let's go up on top what what do people I just on zone two you don't have to say zone two is you just said just say a Wellhead protection area uhhuh because you've already got zone two there and then um on under setback the last question under that definition a last sentence rather D setback requirements to Wells does not include irrigation Wells but to portable water wells only that's where are you Mary where are you reading from Reading from page two yeah under the definition for setback setback okay the last sentence says D setback requir requirments to Wells does not include irrigation Wells and then I would change the wording to but to portable water wells only because I think it's a little confusing just having portable water only I'm not sure everyone knows what that word is means drinkable it means drinkable AUD yeah well I know that but but I'm not sure the public does NE do because sometimes there's signs that say not pable pable okay I I would go drinking water it's just my feeling okay well I don't care doesn't mean I'm I don't care Larry Eric I nobody's feelings are going be hurt here we're just trying to get this I think it stands by stands well a setback fine self-explanatory and then I would add a definition I just ask what did we do to that do just leave it the way it is right this is but to pable only okay I just had to add a period there yeah I have that too yeah after only after only yeah I have a period there too okay okay um and the other thing I had was uh once again on setback uh on the second line there the word essentially is that we that's going to that's a new sentence we're starting the word essentially yeah it's after the parent ENT so it' be a comma and a small e or a semicolon something yeah something yeah a common because there's no comma yet so you can use a comma and then just make it a small e essentially okay comma Small E yeah that's all right I want to add a definition particularly given that it's um public health related um and this is from the state um definition of a serious pathogenic disease serious pathogenic disease colon highly infectious bacterial and viral diseases and diseases caus caused by prons highly infectious bacterial and viral diseases and diseases caused by prons p r i o NS did you grab did you grab this from this from the state state yeah wonder if it's already in here yeah under number five this is we've talked about this and we know that this has been one of the one of the objections um and so I think we need to be very specific about it and then I think we would have to add we need to add something related to that down at the bottom safety and health requirements but I can wait until we're through the other sections for that comments on that I think it's a good idea to put it in and this and and the reason I added it is because I did add under number four section four number four Infectious Disease Control green burial of a person who was known to have been killed I'll just read the whole thing first by a serious pathogenic disease should not be allowed Ed a green burial pending decision of the yth Board of Health again that's from the state because it's it's pretty General what's there without I think that sentence added to it that's pretty specific read it again there green burial of the person who has know who was known to have been killed by a serious pathogenic disease should not be allowed a green burial pending decision of the Yarmouth Board of Health so that gives us license to override that is that what what you're saying there by your statement to override what over if in other words that ruling that you want to uh put in the in talking about section two still no I'm talking about section four section four number four we haven't said that you can't bury somebody with a communicable disease we haven't said penic disease you said haven't said that we can that can't happen but you're quoting it no we're saying that it can't happen if it was a serious pathogenic disease which is why I wanted to include it under definition what is a serious pathogenic disease according to the state so what I'm saying is a serious pathogenic disease that person cannot be allowed a green barri barri burial pending our decision we could say yes or no right that's what I said yes yeah yeah I think we had to leave it open like that because but we have to be the ones to determine that because that's good examp somebody dying of covid right would not be a threat to be have a green burial but that's a serious pathogenic disease right yeah if it was Anthrax that would be another story right yeah so as long as we have that yeah no it gives us some Authority there it's helpful I mean because there are a lot of infections and people who are dying with or die from um so Mary good thank you um we kind of jumped down to section four let's go back up was there anything on section three under location just to say consistent okay green burial sites must be located on it says private property do we want to add the word residential again yes yep private residential property and under number two uh green burial sites must have well- drained soils to allow for natural decomposition and prevent contamination of nearby water sources groundwater testing should be conducted to ensure the site does not compromise water quality do we want to um identify who who should be conducting the groundwater I I think that comes up someplace CU I know I someplace I put down it has to be Mass Massachusetts certified or something so I think there is someplace else that it does doesn't mean we shouldn't put it in here as well wait to get to and see whether that is enough now Eric should the under groundwater testing must be or should be does make any difference uh must be would be yeah I think so it would be stronger I would vote that way it's not an option they it needs it must be done yeah so we're going to change that one word okay only thing that we address is a certified soil evaluator is that the person that does the or is that the geological evaluation done by somebody differently I don't know the hydrogeological right I think they're looking hydrogeological is looking at the 1500 uh flood well estimated seasonal High groundwater level so profile description to ad depth of four feet soil variability depth to bedrock that's what the geological evaluation according to the state right but this is talking about sampling of groundwater testing that's what I'm saying does a certified soil evaluated do that I don't know he does I would assume all the survey and all that itics they also evaluate WS close by FL zones close by St like that can the homeowner I mean can they just call one person to provide all the services I mean that hopefully can be done I mean for a private person to pick up the tab on that it could be a lot yeah could all the requirements be met by one person who does all this not sure they I I don't I'm not sure that certainly a hydrogeological study a regular soil evaluator they're not doing that at all and then we also have this the three professionals the survey the we have a survey yes yes hydrogeological yes and we also have yes the the certified soil evaluator who may or may not be able to do the the water testing and then maybe another person so there's a little bit of there's some sunk cost here before they even get to an so is it clear I'm looking at you Eric I know but it's about there three services that have to be provided by someone yeah I I'm just I'm not clear on who tests the groundwater where does the D come in well that that was my thought is is the ground they cover all that yes they cover all that they yeah they say what the geological evaluation should be and then they recommend the certified soil evaluator to ensure consistency in making site determination that the body is covered by at least three feet of soil the bottom of the B burial excavation should maintain at least three feet separation distance of naturally occurring soil above the eswt must be water table right sees ground water what what is what is testing on groundw how does testing the groundwater ensure that the site is not compromising the water quality so if the D does all that no then no no they don't do it the home the person putting in the application has to have it done so don't they require that the D yes so they would have to complete that before they even came to us if we had the de if we required a d approval right that would have to have been done so so we wouldn't have to deal with that well but but we would in a way I mean I don't want somebody to come in and say well what do we have to what do we have to have and I'll say well uh I guess a certified soil evaluator and somebody to do a GE you know I'd like to be able to say a geological evaluation that includes these these things and a certified soil evaluator to make sure that the um and this like you said this just seems to pertain to soil issues not water yeah I I'm not clear on how a groundwater test would would ensure that the site doesn't compromise the water quality it seems like a soil test would be much more indicative when you're thinking of groundwater testing you're thinking of the parameters of like for drinking water okay what's the nitrogen what's the AR as opposed to the groundwater testing May in fact the levels where is this H that's the groundwater testing I don't think they're doing they're doing a profile of drinking water nitrogen arenic so going back that's my question is who's testing the water it's it's the hydrogeological survey that's the groundwater testing so maybe we it might just be good to mention that under soil and drain drainage says groundwater testing should be conducted to ensure the site does not compromise water quality because I I just when I read that I was thinking who's testing the water it's it's not it's not testing the water quality it's it's a hydrogeological survey so then maybe we should not say groundwater testing maybe we should but we should somehow say that this includes testing by uh this includes a ground a geological evaluation and certified soil evaluation I think we're getting in over our head here I am yeah think I think I think we're we're just making this more difficult than we need to I think it's difficult I mean we're making it difficult it's already difficult I mean the that information is going to have to be in whatever the person the applicant gets a piece of paper it's going to have to list all these things what they need to get and all those items would be on there because I agree with you in here get by the D and that's all covered by their regulations is what I'm saying so I don't know why we need to repeat that my got feeling is you're right it's just overloading what this how this is being written I just um that's my opinion I I just don't want someone to read it and think oh I I need somebody else to test my groundwater too that I'm just trying to agree with you Eric clarify ground water has no relevance here it's it it specifically says four feet from the water table right and then the the soil has to be able to be you know it's um permeable enough to filter out all these impurities before it gets to the groundw so that's all kind of covered in the regulation so how did we get that sentence where did that sentence come from groundwater testing should be conducted to Ure well I think it's in reference to the hydrogeological study so if can we just be consistent with our addressing of that just leave the first sentence or refer to it as a hydrogeological study rather than groundwater testing is that is that yeah so hydrogeological study geological evaluation the state Hydro geological evaluation 90% of already that's that's better at least then the person's looking at it says oh okay yeah that's what the state says here and that's what it means Jay you have it yeah so to back up kind of the mechanics of this would be an application and then there will be like we do with um septic but there'll be a checklist of these are the things the steps and we're going to have to guide them through that from this from your policy that once it is approved it will say these are the steps and we're not going to just him say here fill this out and so we we'll guide them in that right right and so when we just say geological evaluation that's enough but in the process we'll say underneath the geological evaluation in the in the checklist or whatever we'll say could should include these things right right okay that's fine I'm fine with that anything else on section three there on the second page working on no anyone okay section four what else has to be dealt with here anything number three okay the last sentence the burial process should be done using environmentally friendly methods what does that mean yeah I have it underlined circle with an exclamation mark next to it here I have the same reaction originally what they were what they were saying was not when you were talking about Green environmental is a limiting machines in in and doing it in a in a friendly manner so that nothing is compromised in the process does that mean using shovels and not machines so Mary what that means is your back hole can't be leak in oil well exactly right as as as friendly can't be as construction yeah making sure that it's done in a friendly manner this is all that was part of the process they talked about um and again this is pulled from a whole a whole host of information not just here in Massachusetts but across be done an environmentally friendly manner so that there is any contamination environmentally safe methods we just change that friendly to sa yeah I'm please a little bit more I'll second your motion all right the only thing that changed there is the word friendly then okay safe yeah nice Okay um now we already looked at Infectious Disease Control right the only question I had there in addition to that was on the second basically it says what green burial practices should comply with any relevant infectious disease regulations so you don't want the ones that are from New Jersey you maybe put Massachusetts or you don't want it from Brazil or wherever you know it would be ours that's all I would put Massachusetts there so ma infectious disease regul reg pretty simp yeah so we don't lose in court okay now um believe it or not we're on the next page up on top it's it's actually section five which is written down there so we're on Section Five and it's 1 through 14 here um what just stood out here to me was number three certified soil evaluator let's look at with that additionally a so so I had I had a question uh first the sequence okay is that correct is that the way we wanted to follow through on all this because my thought was initially we talked about having the um applicant go through the um D before we even got to all these but yet I think that the D is listed in number four okay but but it shouldn't the D be at the beginning because isn't that the beginning of the whole process this is this isn't necessarily the order in which the applicants required Cadence okay these are these are all the things I mean we you could start with the arm with the number two the superintendent and um I had a question about that though the approval and sign off Y withth water intended sounds to me pretty sort of equivocal in other words if there was some Prejudice on the part of the yarm water superintendent he could reject this out outright before the process even started I mean is that necessary do we need a a Yarmouth water superintendent to even sign off on this I I asked that at the board meeting and and that's what you you said yes we would want that um they and that's why I put they have a basis for been kind of a little bit circular on this but they have made it very clear in writing and uh thought it was rather arbitrary I remember reading what she said yeah right right but it seemed awful arbitrary that she had this preconceived Prejudice to begin with that that we shouldn't have any of this right and was not able to substantiate it right right I can tell you my my conversation with both the director of DPW and the water superintendent is they said almost I think this is quoting for btim out of an abundance of caution we would not recommend we would not recommend green burials we don't we don't have them in our Cemetery we don't there isn't a lot of data information our longitudinal study on this we would not recommend them and we do not approve them he didn't uh she didn't uh give us any facts on why she said that I don't I don't think they can do that then I'd take number two out I'd just cross it off let's just yeah leave it off I would too I was going to say that otherwise what are we doing here sitting here just take it off I don't I mean do we require them signing it sign sign you know signing off on it I don't think so no well they're not going this is our policy why would you bothered with this policy so it's our policy and no I we changed our minds y i I absolutely support that yep okay I mean they could go to the select board and say hey this policy you're policy but the burial approval you know but that's which is fine if they chose to do that I agree okay so we're deleting number two um L you mentioned about moving up so on the order there about number four you feel strong you want to do that I mean I don't think anyone I feel like that that's the beginning of the whole process so it might not go any further than that if they don't approve of it right so we're try taking it out we we just we deleted it Larry we deleted number four number four sorry number four I think should be number one no yes number four like Eric said this isn't in order but I I agree with you it bothered me too that we were kind of jumping around temporally the only the only reason I say that is because the one applicant we've had we got through that whole process before we requested they go back to the D to get approved well the applicant knew he had to so it was not even us we didn't no I know yeah no I I I agree I I like to see things in in some sort of order and to me it was temporary and this wasn't it yeah what's the bottom line here do you want number four going up to number one or not we need to tell Jay well could we word it differently that sure uh Jay I don't know how you think we should word that that we need approval from the DP be at the beginning of this process we that a do we agree with that in other words if if the D doesn't approve of this it's not going to go anywhere else isn't that that's my understanding is that correct or not we've said that D regulations and requirements are separate and in addition to this local regulation and first must be reviewed and approved by the regional D office for each burial request we've already said that so yes I think that number four needs to become the new number two okay I agree with you on that new number two number two so right so four move four up to number two okay so number one stays the same is is right because that's a given okay we're not going to go any further if okay now the only question I also had about Zone number one and I could be off Bas here that we agree that the plot the site of the plot is not to be allowed in zone two but what about the neighbors property being in Z the set we have to have the setbacks as long as the setbacks is satisfied right y that's what we decided y cool with that y again number three is just kind of you know certified so evalue must cond conduct an evaluation must have a hydrogeological study and a professional survey the property must be completed you know and then if we were going to do that I would would have said the site plan should show burial plot in relation to I should say yeah blot plot in relation to to property boundaries and setback distances to all Wetlands ponds River streams runoff and public and private wells in the immediate area because that's what the state says the site plan must include but again if you want to do that on the list you know on the on the check off list right under site plan list all of those specifics because when the d looks at it that's what they're going to be looking for so so like two question uh when they're submitting this pack into DP they have going to done they will have done the soil evaluation they will have done the hydrogeological the survey and the Litany of things that Mary just delineated that then goes to D it isn't like they get the approve from d and then go through the things that the board is asking all that work will be done but the D is going to request that they're going to request that in their review right and that up or down on that then it comes back over sure to so that I think Hillard had a question well they're going to be doing going through all these different steps and three three different professionals and all that is going to happen for D or the board and actually for both right so what are we doing with what is currently number three are we changing anything there or not yeah that just repeats what we just talked about so you could leave it I mean if you want could certainly leave it it's just redundant for what the DP was going to require but that's fine yeah I'm fine with just leaving it okay just gets kind of messy um Jay just add Massachusetts State Certified soil evaluator whatever that would mean it's someone that's recognized by the state they have a license to work here that's number three is the second sentence so it says additionally comma a Massachusetts State Certified soil evaluator would be the only edit then on number three yep thank you okay um number five I just have a grammatical just it's it just reads a little bit better the last sentence setbacks just add an S to setback setbacks must also comply with Title Five regulations period okay just reads a little bit more it little better it's not as awkward um I had a question on language number 12 green burial is not revocable um in the minutes I think Larry you hadit said about the process it was like the um the process was is not revocable I want sure revocable is the right language I wish what can you exume the body the question that was done can't disiner the body exactly that well I I asked that question is it can it be revers you know can it be changed so new new new owner of the property said I want to exume the body right no well that's what I tried to say here yeah they have to understand that when they purchased the property right because we have said and I had questioned that at first but then as I read it more carefully two other places we say that the permit cannot be the permit can be revoked in other words right we can say no other burials that's it but we can't disiner diser that's covered in number seven as well I think well yeah it's in two other places I can't remember where but yes so it's so maybe it's not worded that maybe you'd like it a in a different way but a greenberry is not revocable I don't you know the body cannot be I I don't know how you want to say that my point is that this is forever changing the complexion of that property right I think it's self-explanatory okay non revocable a body in the in the green burials not to be removed or cannot be removed but I think it 12 stands alone I think green burial is not revocable I mean that's yeah new language to me only I always think of contracts you know you're dealing with the lawyer whether something revocable it's not that kind of thing I I never if it makes sense to you that that's fine I just wouldn't have put that word to me you can't you can't take a body out or whatever I don't know it pertains yeah because I know the language you had used process for some reason I put it down here in that context yeah okay yeah a green burial is not revocable that's that's what I saw in that meeting um but yeah the context I was using it it was when the issue of multiple right right U bodies came up in the same plot okay that was that that's not going to work according I mean that's spelled out in number seven I think once you bury somebody there that whole area that 10 x 12 area can't be disturbed right right okay all right let's leave it as is then um I guess the only exception to that would be if say you had husband and wife killed in a car accident together or something like that and would that be a variance yeah that would be a variant right or if there was some kind of legal need for assuming a body but yeah that's that's beyond our can okay but that's more like a Ty of facility okay number 14 green burial must be witnessed by a staff member of the health office do you want a different term like like the yth health office or do you want I mean Health Department something a little bit more official than just saying Health office doesn't sound very professional to me you're not a department anymore yeah let's an office yeah come on me I'm serious because you're you're under the it's a division it's called the health division it's a division it's called the health division okay the department is inspectional Services buildings division health division gotcha so I'd say the health division yep and capitalize it yeah capitalized yes good okay anything section six anyone no section seven um I just had one question because I I don't know anything about a permit so this would have to obviously this will all have to be in place before the permit was ever done right because that's more of a a a current request right in other words that's at the death of the person so they would have already had to complete all this process before the permit could even be required right no no I don't think so so what do they do with the body while that permit's being I mean this process could take a while yeah good well so what do they do have to store the body somewhere you have to pay for it yeah like in a morg or something there's some complexities general homes well presumably they'd be doing all this ahead of time yeah knowing that everybody's going to die Unexpected death car accident you mentioned the person dies they go and they get the permit exactly in other words that's at the point of burial but the putting the person but um approval requirements have already been done before the permit I would hope so yeah and do your question like actually the one of the funeral directors that we the local funeral director that we uh actually went and visited they have capacity to store and they do store them for a significant amount of time months not days they freeze them or I I don't know the temperature but they do they do store the body yeah I know someone in the business yes they do store and for for a number of different reasons they yeah good yep I was unfamiliar with the process so makes sense um you any small item here on Section s number one it says site inspection probably health is the first word should be capitalized health staff should be Capital H what what was that again section seven y I see that under site inspections colon the word Health should be capitalized Capital H okay nothing Earth shattering um should we go on to Section 8 then yeah okay good um okay very requests I have a sentence that I think we need to put in because of the state requirements okay and I would I would um insert it before the last sentence and it would say however comma all state citing requirements must still be met period because the state does say that about variances however all repeat that all all state site requirements must still be met period okay let that's important great that's then then the the concluding sentence is variance requests must be submitted right right that's before that okay okay so I had two sort of general questions just for for us to think about or discuss now does the health department receive a um death certificate we get we get death certificate no they're up at the clerk's office now if it's covid if there's certain uh causes of death they come down to us we keep them file on record so anyone who may have been um someone suffering uffing from a serious pathogenic disease we would have to get that we we would that's a great point because many times the to as you know the toxicology reports take some time and cause of death and things of that nature there may be a time delay on that something that we would be made aware of you would be I can't say what the timing to that might be and but but we would be made aware of that through the health department yes the cause of death are in there y I mean autopsy reports AR are not public information um It's Complicated I mean lawyers can get doctor can get it um it's it's complicated it is and toxicology reports long time so on a death certificate it doesn't even always say if there's an infection does it it might not it might not always say although it says if the death was the the state stuff says if the death was because of an infectious disease right you're going to get some information from the death I can tell you in the ER very often you know person dies CU their heart stopped I mean it's really there's not a whole lot of it's true they died when their heart you know sto there's other stuff going on y for sure but it's not always listed and the other question that I have is um as far as the execution of the actual burial process um are we leaving this I mean it's probably not our place to say who is exec in this I I don't think that's really been discussed so uh family members could execute this in theory or a a funeral home do funeral homes they conduct Green Green Home Buri that was the conversation that we went that it has they have done not actually here on the C but they have gone into other states and done the funeral director that we spoke to so they have done them so I haven't spoke to a homeowner that presumably there are funeral homes in the town or on the cape that would offer this as a service would be familiar that's exactly they could they could do this okay and and could a could a family execute this process I always said is it has to be environmentally fall under the perview of and the he Health officers or health staff person is going to observe it okay I would I would probably you know this is now with hypotheticals and things but more than likely a a funeral home would would be part of this process you'd think so but could they as this is written they probably they could yeah they they could do it on their own sure it could be budgetary issues sure yeah I just wanted to bring that up because I don't know as it's really been disgust um but there are some things on our end um just administratively uh a fee would be set an application would be constructed like I said there's a there's a number of different things still to be to be facilitated here but this is the body that we'll be building off of of what what you have here um and then I'm just going I want just need to get the legal eyes on this to make sure it meets muster legally are we done uh well I told Mr mccy that uh why don't you come forward just courage C to you there some things you'd like to say appreciate your waiting I know it's an important issue for you and your family yeah as I read through the minutes and tonight's meeting I know this was some discussion about the water superintendent and was mentioned uh not approved um and allow me to share this with you and this I think will help get a lot of stuff here and I think I have rephrase that not approved what did you mean by that yeah uh that the according to an unnamed consultant to the water superintend tenant here in Yarmouth there was mention of not approving we excluded that so you excluded that but one thing I didn't want to mention that Jim mlin with mass D contacted in December the water superintendent and there were no issues so this was the Yarmouth water superintendent so I great so I just wanted to share that with you and I can share that also in a followup email sure I I talked to Jim mcclin today and we shared exactly that one and I he said well locally this board has a lot more local Authority than D has so that that I spoke to Jim we he and I he and I spoke for about a half an hour today maybe more um we went over exactly this to say what was the basis for his approval he has mentioned that he had spoken to you as well um because I mentioned that there the water superintendent the DPW director and the director of the cemeteries was not in favor of this and he says well quite frankly the local authorities have a lot more jurisdiction than D we're looking at overlays studies so I'm not even sure zone two is mapped properly because there is a water there's a body of water nearby and that is saltwater and I'm not so sure what that in influx infiltration of water might be so I didn't have I didn't have anything to stand on to say no but and you said several times local authorities this board has a lot more jurisdiction over the process yeah uh I can believe that I just wanted to it's I found the document here and it mentioned uh the department this is talking about d d Mass D the department consulted with the Yarmouth water department superintendent the Yarmouth water superintendent did not have any concerns with the burial provided it was located outside the zone 2 which it is according to an email dat December 19th 2024 so this is from the town of Yarmouth water superintendent to Jim mcclaflin of D that did not the water superintendent in Yarmouth did not have any concerns that was December 19th that was December 19th yes very good and I can share that with you if you'd like so I'll pass these out uh let's see I see how hard everybody's been working on this and I thank you all for that yeah you cause a lot of trouble you know know I don't think he's causing any of keeping us employed thank you very much Charles I'm hoping to get a double uh increase in pay for right about that is this a voluntary thing or is this some token to serve the town yes that's true aare committe y right and it's on the second page where it says that I was kind of surprised to read that in a minutes also I'm hoping the minutes for the December meeting DEC 16 on internet I wasn't able to see those hav't been approved yet they haven't been approved yet oh okay that makes sense I can say you do that here there yeah that there's a process I also read about um the excuse me you need to sit down to you in front of the mic I also read in the minutes about the uh Foreman of aarma cemetery talking about how they got rid of the green burials sometime around 1960 and it didn't give a reason why it didn't give a scientific reason why and one of the great things about being here with all of you is that everybody has this biology and Science Background as I myself do uh it kind of surprised me that they got rid of the green burials in the 1960s and keep in mind keep the 1960s was not known for like an environmental time that's uh the early 60s was when things started off but the embomb fluid contains falahi and some of you have probably seen the MSDS for falahi so why anybody running a cemetery would think that's any way more environmentally friendly and I just printed these out for you too yeah to to be clear Barry spoke to I don't Ross I don't think they get rid of that it dated back to and again the 60s so this this gentleman Mr Bullock said this was a green berial haven't been allowed since the 60s in part because of uh water quality concerns and and each one each person that we speak to have said listen out of abundance of caution we just because we don't have a lot of information so we haven't allowed them isn't like up until this I think you're portraying is up until the 60s they allowed them and they stopped in the 60s his his information only dates back to them and said we don't allow them and it dates back to the 60s so but we couldn't find any official right no yeah policy I think what else is on your list you're absolutely right about from Malahide yeah um and let me just yeah Mr Bullock informed him that as a precautionary measure in this 1960s the town of Yarmouth decided not to allow green burials in its cemeteries so how everyone reads that keep in mind in the 1960s we still had lead and gasoline and things like that and so I guess in the 1960s they decided not to allow green burials yet every person buried in there would be pumped full of this carcinogenic faldy chemical also methanol is used which is seriously nasty causes cancer and things like that which is not an issue for a dead person but that's true but if it does get out and and I don't think the vaults are watertight in that respect so just I just wanted to bring those two points up there and I really appreciate you uh just all the work you're going through here the process getting here and I'm glad I could be here tonight just to see it and just realize how much work you're putting into all of this and I thank you for that thanks for mentioning that great how's your dad patience how's your dad doing you know my dad he's he's hanging in there and he's doing okay thankfully he responded pretty well uh to some hospital treatment so you know I'm I'm glad for that I've been trying to spend as much time with him as I can I'm going to join him we're working on it what's that tell him we're working on it right yes he's I believe he's watching here right now okay uh watching this okay so and just I just see the the work that you're doing again and just it's deeply appreciated from all of you thank you and I hope to be I guess the next meeting is going to be in two weeks no no that's a holiday so we're gonna have to maybe February 3rd maybe February 3rd okay day you mention yeah so we'll look at the date we don't know right now but before the end of the meeting we'll know when our meeting is okay yeah we're kind of like Congress you know we're on recess a lot that's not true that's a good thing but okay yeah you don't get the pay they do a little cred no you guys you guys can't do insider trading legally no we'd have to vote on it make a motion okay so you down your list uh I think that goes over the vast majority of this stuff uh I know Larry you had a question on like storage cold storage of bodies I looked at this in one instance I believe they refrigerate them rather than freeze them but that's just one instance on that it's also good to hear interesting background as a Vetinarian you're mentioned of anthrax was kind of interesting well I just use that as an example of disease that could be serious pathogen serious there would be an issue here but something like a pathogen that's uh relies on a living organism typically won't be whereas a Anthrax could be a sapric organism and at the same time highly pathogenic even in a situation like with a body yeah that could stay active for a hundred years right thank you as there are a few OD botulism would be another one clustal organisms do we need a a motion to accept the revisions the final change yeah we we do then we would be we'd be done with number two on the agenda everyone wants to make a motion about the edits and we just did I'm going to give it a shot I move we accept the draft regulation of the Yarmouth Green Home burial regulations pending the revisions made this evening on January 6 2025 second any discussion about it no okay all in favor raise your hand say I I ious okay it's done thank you everyone thank you very very much okay let's go on next all right how about uh minutes want to do that do quickly anything people read the minutes I only had one question anyone else have any [Music] um where was mine yeah um page four under plastic reduction bylaw update question I had the first sentence was about let's see James Gardner informed the board that the CH members of the Chamber of Commerce who attended the meeting on July 15 2024 comma and requested to to support requested support to approach the select board for delay in the enforcement on and on on what meeting was the July 5th was that I'm not sure what board that was it's referencing July 15th meeting was our meeting they came here and they explained their situation and was asking for the board of health support in them going to the select board I didn't that sounds like an early date was that in the middle the summer we did that I I thought that was I know they chamber came in October to us was there did they come in July because October maybe 10th I didn't I didn't get to see the minutes I just I asked Mo to see what do you what what meeting were you referring to their meeting they came in July our meeting here right in July July 15th um they came and they explained I think one of the ladies who originally came with the um the young woman yes and then there was another young man that was here who was saying oh I'm willing to be the head of whatever committee right um so the two persons that were sitting here from the chamber they were asking for the board of health support in going to the C that was meeting with Davenport came his group no that that was October 7th I'm I'm going to check the date on that it was a little bit later because I actually didn't get a call till the end of July October 7th was a meeting that uh Mary from the chamber and the DP Jamie Jamie okay that was the date of that meeting so I wasn't sure what July 15th was so just to make that correction whatever yeah and then there was a process I went chop representative that was the meeting that um yeah um the young girl Haley haly Haley was here um when I found out the end of July I went to the Town Administrator they kind of laid out a scenario so yeah you're right Hiller that I with the holiday I haven't seen the minutes before um so no big deal so anything else on on the minutes maybe someone make a motion we'll just include one edit that needs to be done Eric want to do two in a row sure hey come on uh I move we accept the Board of Health minutes from December 16th 2024 pending the date change from July 15th to October 20 probably the 7th but whatever the correct date 7th 2024 second great let's skip any discussion questions just raise your hand say I if you accept the minutes as fine done great motion's done let's up to new and old business oh we have so J is correct um it is October 7th when they came okay okay okay great all right perfect um New or Old business anyone um small thing uh at the Dennis Senior Center they are I gave you a flyer yes they're starting to do their um buried and treasure Workshop again it's uh put on by the Cape Cod hoarding Resource Network um it's a if you anybody out in the public if you yourself any family members or a neighbor you know would like to join this it's free you can call the Dennis Senior Center their phone number is 774 33031 um and it starts Thursday the 9th from 10:30 to 12:30 and they also have an online version for the folks who can't make it it's a it's a like a 13 week program 13 to 16 we program um it helps people understand their issues with clutter and hoarding and stuff like that so it's a great program I've actually already reached out to two of our local residents today and pass this information on to them so great would don't you just State the registration information phone number again slowly more time not a problem tell my wife about this uh Cape Cod hording Resource Network is having a once again a buried and treasure workshop at the Dennis Senior Center for information 774 330 301 great additional new old business I would simply say this just to the board reminder and anyone listening at home um this time of year just after the holidays people together we're seeing an increase whether it's in covid uh seasonal influenza RSV um protus a number of things and and and direct them to when you said the board probably checks it on a regular basis or if if if not I highly recommend you do Leah Hammer if you remember the epidemiologist from the from uh barible County they have a tremendous amount of either local state and National information on a whole number of uh epidemological uh concerns and and and we're seeing a rise we're seeing a rising in this building of whether it's neuro us upper respiratory issues to be cautious washing your hands cough hygiene all of those things as we um we're just heading into that season it's it's not unusual but it's hitting it's we're probably I don't know even know if we're at Peak quite frankly but a seasonal influenza shot is important not too late just to be mindful of that and and and to be careful of that we're we're seeing this in this building um and I'm sure you see it in maybe you start at the holidays so just to remind the board that that barnable County uh website has a tremendous amount of information and it's just helpful in some some tips and I think you saw that at one of the meetings recently um I I refer to that on a fairly regular basis uh next meeting date February 3rd third everyone at least three of us at least we'll have a meeting great um you know Eric 2025 you want to do three motions of motions I Mo hold on everyone you lead the league I move we adjourn second all in favor raise your hand say I thank you very much Happy New Year the agenda on Fe