Go ahead. I'm ready. >> Here we go. All right. >> Recording in progress. >> Okay. Recognizing a quorum, the chair opens the December 8th uh meeting of the community housing committee. >> Pardon?
>> By roll call vote. That's all >> we have to do. >> No, I'm going to do I'm I am not done. >> Um this meeting is being live broadcast and recorded. Uh, we'll do a roll call to verify attendance. Myra
>> here. >> Tom >> here. >> Greg >> here. >> Drew >> here. >> John here. Deardra >> here. >> Lee >> here. >> Um, >> first order of business is uh minutes.
>> Yep. So, you know, we have a new director for our department and they've actually um hired somebody to help with minutes. Okay. So, um, yep. After there's a set of minutes for the, uh,
community and economic development committee, and once those are done, they'll start working on these ones because they're recorded, so they can just, um, >> Yep. >> So, there's hope. >> Good news. >> Uh, Old Business, Habitat for Humanity
neighborhood at 11:21 Route 28 South Yarmouth update and discussion. Yeah, I think the only update is and I think you might all know this, the board of selectmen voted to sign the lip um application and so didn't this committee. So, our part is done. We've
signed it. We've reviewed everything. We've signed everything and now Habitat needs to send that up to the state to get a site visit scheduled and hopefully um the state will issue the project of eligibility letter which will allow Habitat to go to the zoning board of
appeals and apply for a comprehensive chapter 40B permit. >> So we're done. >> And we're done. We're done. I'll keep you in the loop in case you want to join the um site visit. the state likes, you know, to have um the members of the
committees come and just kind of chitchat on the site and they it's a good uh way to touch base with them. >> All right. Um Meta Keys utilization project 400
Higgins Croll Road, West Yarmouth update and discussion. >> Yep. So, you have some correspondence >> um between a a local resident uh and the chair Sharon Wymer who's here today. Um
that's kind of a good summary about um the Madakis utilization committee often referred to as MUK. There's the charge and kind of it it shows how important that kind of information is. um because the it you know the Yarmouth
resident kind of be because they understand the project more they're more amendable to certain things being at the site. So >> and Sharon, I thought your response was perfect. >> Y very nice. >> I appreciate that you're including it so
that hopefully other people might see it. It kind of is an argument to me. Um you guys have been great through the whole process and it's not a finished process by any stretch. Um and the
select board will be deciding. So, um, but I just thought it required, um, a longer answer, which I got a lot of comments about it being long, but I just wanted to make sure that she understood everything that I understood
and not that it's correct all the time, but I appreciate you putting it in your your minutes, Mary. >> No, I thought it was very well done. >> Thank you. Yeah, and I agree. I mean, it is long, but you have to get everything in there. Otherwise, people just are
going to see what they want to see and not re not delve into the details. And I I thought that was very detailed and very well done. >> And uh I I I commend the Cape Code Commission too because they certainly have had these statistics for people to
see, but sometimes it's hard to dig those out or wanting to dig those out. So, um, >> well, if I might add, what people need to understand is we're looking for mixed housing as well as some home ownership
and mixed housing is a good way to go, >> right? Um >> and and they are talking about market rent too in terms of the >> mixed housing some affordable and some market rate >> which gives you a mixture in the in within the if we do a development home
ownership is something different >> um eventually gets is is out of um control except for the select board to decide. So >> right and what is the timeline for that?
Um well they are going to we >> uh the scope of our our committee changed back in March. >> Okay. >> In terms of the seven phases. So six and seven became out of our
interest so to speak I guess not necessarily out of our interest but >> but your domain sort of. >> Yeah. the um so they got a grant uh for 200,000 to help them with the process of finding financial
um information. So that's what we'll >> the select board >> well the select board accepts the grant and it's designated to okay the administration to do that. So the staff and the upper level staff is going to be doing that uh with that money in terms
of uh seeking information in terms of marketing probably and um what the town needs and what it what it might garner in terms of income etc. that would help them decide what um and how much goes
into this site. So there's there's a number of things I I found it interesting because it offers so much information the process that we went through. So, I was glad to be involved with it because I learned a lot and uh
you know there's you know in and some of what I learned isn't always necessarily good news to hear for certain committees maybe but um you just keep moving forward and uh we always wanted to hear
from the public. Um that was a goal of ours to begin with and doing the survey was helpful. Um a lot of good things that we're passing on and um delighted
to have done it. >> So um in the um select board's packet maybe two meetings ago, maybe the last meeting, there was some more information about that grant. I think it's a mass
development grant. >> I'll pull that out for you guys. I'll just email it to you. >> Thank you. >> That'd be great. That'll be really >> helpful to me. >> Page 137 through 140 December 2nd packet. >> Thank you.
>> Wow. >> She's been studying. And I don't know how many people on on the um committee uh were either attended or saw watched the um uh video of your meeting with the
select board. Um which I thought went pretty well all in all. Um did did everybody get a chance to see that? >> I didn't see it. >> I'll send that link out. >> Yeah. >> You have to listen very carefully.
and follow along, you know, because sometimes people are talking about a certain drawing that's being shown and sometimes they're talking about everything in general. So once in a while it was like what are they talk Oh, they're just talking about that specific bubble diagram.
>> Yeah. >> Right. Um but who was there with me? I was in I was there. >> Drew, you were there? >> I was there. I see I I can't recall the details. >> We were in the back. I remember greeting you were talking to you now.
>> He's coming back to me now. >> Took a nail in the back of the room. >> Somebody said somebody said it looks like the housing people agree. They're all nodding. We >> Now it's coming back to us, >> right? We had it. We weren't speaking because we didn't have the mic near us or anything, but
>> we see it now. I'm glad you reminded me. >> I mean, in in it seemed like the housing component was going to be somewhere around 70 units. I I specifically some they were looking at our presentation uh which had uh the
moderate and the elevated. >> Yeah. So some uh one member spoke of smaller the smaller amount and so that was 60 roughly 62 or whatever but um and then
some specifically mentioned the 60ish area >> right >> and um I think it depends on where the financials take everybody and uh I I would say there was one thing that was disappointing to me was not seeing all
the lots Chickity Lane. >> Yeah. >> And I I think they could work on that. >> My personal opinion because I think that could either be, as we talked about before, either money to help
>> um or it could be, hey, let's control this and do our own houses. I see. I'm still big on that. Well, I think it I think it would also be a nice buffer for the neighbor the existing neighborhood
>> between their side of the road and and where the main part of the project is going. >> Right. >> Well, could I just clarify? I'm sorry. >> We were talking about affordable housing near Chicad and that would be I would think compatible with home ownership
properties on the next road. So, >> that's just one scenario. So, um you know so there we're giving them three scenarios. So and part of uh we believe that a school is needed for the students of the town.
>> Yeah. So, uh, we certainly are, and that's changed because originally it was going to take like 20 acres based on what we had to begin with, but we changed it as a result. I think it was Bob who recommended doing that was to
flip the 6 to 8 acres right on the Emmy small school. >> So, we're saying you can have this. We haven't told them how they're going to do it, but they can have that to build a new school. Um and then
and then it was um talked about in terms of housing depending on the scenario flipping from your original request of being up towards I call it the top >> to where the if the school isn't taking
the land to then come down to where the school is. So that's not a decided thing. That's just offering options >> um to location and again the select board will pick it. I have my own views
but >> doesn't necessarily mean anything in this scenario but uh so >> but it seemed it seemed like everybody on the select board was supportive of of the idea of housing on that parcel >> right >> in some way shape or form.
>> Right. And um so the question is what housing >> and um some of my committee members >> um were talking about housing on Chickity Lane >> and that's all they were talking about. So
>> you mean bordering with Chickity Lane, not >> Right. >> Okay. Yeah. Good. >> So it's it's an interesting process. >> Right. So the the mass development grant really opens it up to doing like market
studies to see what type of private public >> partnerships there are >> for something like a recreational or competitive recreational facility that kind of stuff. Um but it also allows you to outreach to companies that might be
able to do the whole site. >> You know what I mean? >> One company. >> Yeah. So think about that. Like if you have a public private relationship, right, partnership and you say, "Okay, yep, you get to do this, this, this, and this." And we also want you to build the
housing, right? Done. >> Well, wouldn't one of the things we were aiming for is if we did some home ownership housing. >> Yeah. >> For to partner with uh Habitat because we know they do a good job, right? >> We know that they carefully, you know, they they monitor
>> Yeah. their residents and they work they they work on the units and all that. So, >> but that's private companies partner with Habitat all the time. Okay, that's definitely doable. >> That wouldn't rule that out then. >> That's doable. >> So, when you say a private company, you
mean like an umbrella company that has >> So, who's the biggest construction company on the Cape? I always think of Scandlin, >> right? >> You think Scanland? Scanland that does all the schools, >> you know, like if you had a big company
that does larger development, well, they typically have a commercial side and a residential side, >> okay? >> You know, so they might have the capacity to do everything we want at the site, >> you know, the challenge the the
challenge of sticking to the bubbles with respect to the developers, right? You're you're now you have different developers involved and you know it's a brilliant idea to try to get one one group that can do it all. >> Can do it all. >> That's interesting.
>> And that mass development grant that's the genius behind it. It it it attracts that kind of attention. So >> that that is I think that would be the way to go. I mean that cuts doesn't make sense. >> It cuts you know different developers
fighting over no we need this we need that. Yeah, it's it's a very interesting >> this came up at the meeting. >> Yeah, a little bit. >> You have to listen. You have to listen very carefully. >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. >> And and it so there'll be a link to a
meeting. >> The school would be Yeah, I guess somebody like what you're suggesting. I don't know the >> Oh, the school would have to be different because that's all >> because it is small, you know. >> Well, you just said Scandlin built schools. They do schools, but they're like like I'm thinking what are the
>> bid for it and get it themselves in a >> biggest companies. Yeah, >> understood. Okay. Like I don't know who does who builds um like if you had a recreational facility a large recreational facil I don't know who builds those but those companies they
can be big enough that they have the residential and the commercial side to >> and if it was a school and they couldn't handle it they would sub it out but but they would handle >> usually the schools are very >> school would be subject to state um mandates and all kinds of different things. So
>> that parcel I'm assuming would just be cut cut out and >> passed off to >> and I can see that being >> whoever is separate process through the its exact >> it has to be >> it yeah
>> there is a meeting coming up too that they're trying to learn from uh the Cape Cod Chamber director the Yarmouth Chamber director We had them at one of our meetings and talked um and they're
they were talking about getting a small grant themselves to do uh a replacement or upgrade a 2014 study that they did. Um it was a marketing study um in terms of how to
help out um hotels and and that kind of thing. Um so uh they may be doing that separately too. Um the chambers to help uh for the Yarmouth businesses, >> right?
>> Um and then there's a meeting uh with the with those chambers um to see if and and we've submitted questions to them um both the administration and myself in
terms of the muck to see if we can gather some additional information from them that might help that phase going forward that uh six and seven. So, um it's still sort of an ongoing thing and
learning um and trying to keep the recreation part uh up in front um because they've been so um successful in using the gym for themselves in their own programs.
So, it's a lot of different aspects to it and hopefully uh they can all learn and decide and happy together. >> So, so what's the next step for the committee?
>> The committee is to do uh participate in this. We just went to I went to um a work session on the short-term rental um and Mary ran for you guys. So, Um, I I want to take that back to my
committee. Um, see if there are any thoughts that our committee might have about it. Um, and just to be knowledgeable about it so that we have input in terms of the scenarios that we're trying to get done and also we are
scheduled to also meet with the public again if um if that stays the same in terms of presenting those site plans. that I you know that would develop by then so and see what kind of feedback we
might get from the public too which always includes neighbors and >> okay anything else >> I just want to put on the record I do remember being at that meeting we've discussed it talking to both of you over
there but uh as for the elementary school a a new building needs to be built this building is no good anymore the semi small building, but it's my impression is it's still truly up in the air as to whether it would be on that
site or maybe down on Station Avenue. Right. >> That's the kind of the unsettling thing for for Muk to really fully move forward in the select board from >> ruling, you know, moving forward in terms of real definition of where
everything would go. and uh they are just starting in January their feasibility study which would identify where they want to be and we're allowing them to say you have a space here if
this is the space you want originally the school committee before when they had a prior superintendent wanted everybody to be over on station >> A right >> and so there's always been that traffic thing with station A Um so whether that
can get solved by maybe doing additional exit road somewhere on the property in a different direction >> that would be a big part of the feasibility >> have for there I think concerning part
>> about um the town meeting that occurred. >> That's right. uh because they included three things instead of the two things that we've always seen which was that it's not decided that renovation is totally out of the whack but I think
>> the building is so gone that there won't be any really big discussion about that but they officially have to go through that process. >> Yeah. The question will be uh the added thing that was uh in the town um meeting was
trying to allude to the fact of joining the station app elementary school with the Emmy school find another location >> to build a whole new school for the two schools
>> and I think that's was a shock a number of people >> at the meeting. So that may be something that needs to be talked about and I'm telling you everything that I know. So I'm not sure that's a good thing or not,
but um um so there are some real problems with trying to iron out the school part, >> but it will just take time. And so that does affect scenarios and >> and that study is to begin the first in
January, but it probably won't be done until >> Oh, it's scheduled for a year. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So that >> we're talking about muk. >> Hi, Mark. >> Member of the public.
>> Are you all mucked out? >> Yeah, we're all mucked out. I was just telling them about the uh the uh goodness of a um a third thing at the town meeting uh for the schools which
was including somehow the combination of station AB and Emmy small as a separate thing. I I just mentioned that that was a concern >> people that may be coming up
>> again. Yes. >> Can I just ask for clarification? The elementary school is not a DY school. Is that correct? It's just Yamoth. >> Well, it's under the curriculum and everything. It's a regional school district that all schools even uh
Dennis's elementary schools are all under the curriculum and >> okay uh all of that uh you know the leadership the principles and staff they're all >> in the financial umbrella >> under the financial but Dennis has its own elementary school is that correct
>> and Dennis pays for that school just as Yarmouth pays for the Emmy small >> yeah but the towns have engaged the school district okay >> to manage to h handle management hiring teachers and all that business. So it's part of a unified system but as has been
said the financing is pretty much >> defined >> defined as our responsibility. >> Okay. >> So I think and I think and in this the same situation is for Dennis and um we'll see how that arrangement
works down the road. >> Yeah. So, we they were very nice to include the letters of um of a public person that indicated they didn't want they didn't think the site
would be a place for housing. And so, uh he wrote a long letter to her. So, that's included as I wanted to thank them. I thought that was uh nice of them to include that. So, And then I'm going to send the link of
the meeting that the select board had with MUK to all the members of the housing committee and that nice packet of information from Mass Development about that grant that is probably going to be used for this site. So um that way the housing committee will be all
>> up to date >> up to date. Mhm. >> I think the the twist in all of this that you were speaking to is in the school feasibility study, they laid out several uh they laid out a scope that the state has signed off on and one of
the items is a twist for the muck and that is to look at or and it may not be it may but they want us to look at replacing the Margarite small school there at the site.
or having a combination station a small redo together at station or at another site. So the question for Muk is going to be is if that that site
>> is appropriate for that other that combined is there enough square footage there to accommodate that and that's a it's a little bit too early to know that now. >> But that's a question that's some
point's going to have to be addressed. And so what it may do conceivably, and again, as you're probably aware, a lot of these school building projects are dictated by, you know, regulations and criteria from the state. Um, what kind of impact that will have on the acreage
and the square footage and how that impacts, we just won't know >> what we also offer our community. So, >> yeah, >> that's my whistle. >> Yeah. >> Sorry about that, but it'll So,
>> I don't know if you had any other questions, but this is the gentleman to ask. He is involved. >> This is the quietest I've seen this group in a long time. >> I'm like, what exactly are they thinking? >> I have never seen you this quiet
>> or strategy. >> It's exciting project. It has a lot of potential for the town. So, Yeah, I don't have anything else. Any any other good committee members have anything? >> Okay, we'll move on to proposed chapter
40B development at 897 Route 28 South Yarmouth. Uh update and discussion. Mary included a um copy of the um uh permit application um
>> being rescended. Yeah, it's a letter from the project proponent withdrawing the comprehensive permit application >> for 897 Route 28. Good job. I think being upfront and honest as to what the
town wanted at the site really helped them make the decision that chapter 40B was not the permitting mechanism, the preferred permitting mechanism. And in their letter, they are stating that they want to uh use a local zoning bylaw, the
Village Center Overlay District VC3. >> So, a document I couldn't open. >> Yeah. >> So, that is that's great. >> Isn't that um 40B allows you to skip >> Yep. Wave zoning requirements. Yeah.
>> Approvals. So, aren't they walking into a process that's going to have more oversight? >> It'll definitely have architectural control and site design control by the
town. It could have almost comparable density. It won't have the density that they wanted. It but it's not it's not a huge reduction in density. Um, and it it'll they'll get more support from the town for it. >> It seems to me they thought they were
just going to come in and bulldoze and do whatever they wanted. Uh, I mean, there was just no green space. There was no parking. It was just a >> So, we'll get our playground. We'll get the architectural site design standards. We'll get the site design.
It'll be a much better development. Um it'll you know hopefully have a piece of commercial on it you know and it will look it'll use local zoning which actually I think they will find is simpler than chapter 40B because you
don't have that whole state review and you don't have that expensive cost certification at the end. There's no limits to the amount of profit they can make on this. But you do have density review and architectural standards and things that that their one of their
letters went into as not something that that they they thought that it was an overreach for the town in 40b >> under chapter 40B. Yes, it is. But under the local uh zoning bylaw, it's required. So if you want to do a village center
overlay district project, you have to surrender to the architectural standards and the site design standards. And they're not they actually they were going towards that way. When you look at their initial plans and and the the the subsequent plans, they were already
going towards that way. Um and this I think puts them in a better chance to get I think they need some type of recommendation for some type of energy tax credit. they need the town to support that that bit of financing
>> and uh using local zoning will definitely help them out with that. So that's exciting. So you know it really shows that Yamoth has done all that hard work up front, right? The zoning and all of that stuff, our architectural standards, our site design standards and
our affordable housing standards. Um, so it's easy when a project comes in, we just compare it to them and right away we we knew the project needed some improvements. So, >> well, it was very helpful, I thought, your letter and the committee's letter
uh to the zoning board of appeals and right then the planning board followed and also was the board of selectment too. Yeah. And so all of you uh participated and I thought your lead Mary was >> Well, yeah, I got some help from
upstairs. >> I certainly did complain about the overreach of all those letters. >> Yeah, they did. >> Good. We were doing our job, >> but they withdrew. So, >> and uh you know, I hope when they're ready, you know, to come back, they come
back and we have meetings at the staff level and then committee meetings, etc. So, I think they'll be happy with the final product. >> Okay. >> Hi, Bob. >> Um, new business. >> None.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Reports and actions. Uh, chair's report. I don't have anything. Um, home consortium. the um excuse me the December's uh home consortia meeting
was uh cancelled due to a lack of agenda and then I found out this afternoon that January's was also cancelled for lack of an agenda. Uh so the next meeting will be I'm sorry December which was supposed to be this week. Uh the next one will be in January. I did discover this morning
however that the uh Barnstable County uh not the home consortium committee but Barnstable County it didn't say where in the who in the report but that they had selected uh Barrett planning to conf uh to uh continue the shared regional housing um program um and that uh 13 of
the 15 towns on the on the Cape have elected to to to stay on with that. So, um Mary, I'm I'm assuming we're one of them. >> Yes. And it was great because um the the cost in the contract was $9,000.
>> So, >> because so many towns >> because so many towns subscribed. >> So, it was almost half what we first thought it was going to be. So, that's great. And we get um with that every other Tuesday, we meet all the affordable housing staff from the whole
Cape meet. Barrett Planning uh organizes that and quizzes us and brings new things to us and we ask her questions and so it's a it's Alexis still. So um so that's that's going really well and
then we get 27 hours of affordable housing planning. >> If I could just add Mr. chairman. Um, this has been an initiative of the county commissioners to create a regional uh, supportive h housing service. We had the pilot program and
uh, that was so successful and it was very helpful here in Yarmouth. So, we decided to >> we used it for the muck. >> Exactly. commissioners who who >> the county commissioners that have been init that initiated this and pushed forward with us. Um since there are some
limitations on the county budget, uh the amount of money that we get, we're not like a municipality where you can raise property taxes to cover your services. Um our revenue stream is sort of tied to a deed's excise tax. that pot of money
grows then we we do okay. If that money stays flat then uh it makes it very difficult to pay our bills and to deal with costs like you know added insurance, energy uh raises, cost of living adjustments, things like that. So, we structured this as an
intergovernmental agreement and the county administrator asked all the town managers on the Cape to identify a point person to help us coordinate the services to make sure that the shared services that the county would provide are the services that the individual
towns want. and Mary has been incredibly helpful in advising this working group that works directly with the county administrator to sort of oversee the scope of the services but also uh to make arrangements to bring on any
contracting assistance the services. So this has been a priority of the commissioners. It's been a huge priority of mine. Uh I made it very very clear that after the pilot project was successful and it was widely supported that uh I I I pushed to continue it and
it's great to see this this many town these towns do this. Um my argument in pushing for it to continue it is that it's our municipalities that play a critical role in helping develop affordable housing and our towns
should get whatever technical support from the county that they need in evaluating programs and acting on programs or in sharing information on creative ways to provide affordable housing. And obviously Judy Barrett, her firm, as you can see firsthand from working with them, they're wicked smart,
they're very talented, and they're incredibly helpful. And the the relationship that they have had with us has been very positive, very productive. Their help with MUK has been incredibly helpful. So um yeah, we're going to we're going to keep them on board and keep this thing going. And Mary's
support for this initiative has been a very very big help to us. So kudos to Mary. >> Yeah. Was Barrett the group that came to that muck community meeting we had? >> That was Barrett. >> They were they the ones that presented their own ideas on housing in some of
the discussions >> they did, but I think they got us there, >> you know. I think that they they wanted to make sure that all options were considered. Um and right I thought oh the scope is a
little too wide but we we went back to where we're kind of comfortable you know >> and then we said well we considered everything so I thought they they got us to a consensus place >> yeah um >> no further comment
>> no that's that's the engineering company >> okay >> you're talking about the engineering >> office at the table and had decided what was going to happen and >> I think they were they were at one point out of sync Yeah, >> I think they were in sync. >> Okay. >> Um, >> and they admitted that.
>> And they admitted that. >> So, um, and I mean, we we got the mass development grant, right? >> So, we won't be using those planning hours for MUK, but if there's ever a need, we could. You know what I mean? We
could um But >> And how many hours did you say that um was available for >> Last year? We had 30. This year we have 27. Um, and typically, um, if there's like a little bit of an overage, okay,
>> we Barrett Planning works with us to get the work done. So, >> uh, Mark, >> yes. >> Years ago, the Cape Cod Commission had a very active, uh, affordable housing group. I know exactly what happened
>> and it kind of fell by the wayside and act I think when Paul Vashinskus left they never really hired anybody and nothing really happened for a long time. So I'm glad to see them back up and running and working on these important issues again. >> This is not the Cape Cod Commission Lee.
Um this is the county >> the county >> county this is >> okay >> the Cape Cod commission has >> uh in the statute creating the Cape Cod Commission Act they have a housing responsibility and their job is to provide some degree
of direction and oversight to help towns pursue affordable housing. The person that you're referencing Paul Rashinus was outstanding. >> Correct. I worked closely with Paul for years. >> Exactly. He was he was wonderful. He provided enormous help to the towns.
>> Um I could I could say I I echo your comments completely. His predecessor was another gentleman named Ed Allard. I don't know if anybody ever remembered >> Ed, but Ed was there. He was our first uh affordable housing coordinator at the
Cape Commission. He was the one that came up with the idea of creating a home consortium. And at the time when we created it, um, I was working in the Congressional Office. This is during the Clinton administration. So, I'm going I'm really dating myself now, but during
the Clinton administration, we were able to get almost a million dollars as a region in home consortium funding. That was all of Ed Allard's work. So that position, that role at the Cape Cod Commission has been incredibly important
over the years, >> but because they've had difficulty funding it and uh supporting it, we decided that the commissioners, we needed to have some kind of robust leadership in the affordable housing side. That's why we started this pilot
project. We initially put ARPA funds. We had a $40 million allocation of ARPA funding. We put a small chunk of that to support this pilot project to see if it would take hold. It did. And now we found some other monies to keep it going
on our end. So our funds combined with the modest amount of funding that each of the towns supporting um you know is helping keep this thing going. But I I agree with you. county at one time had an incredibly important >> very creative >> and the the home consortium is now under
the care of um the Bosible County Department of Human Services. >> Yes, they over >> Exactly. And it's that department that is overseeing the regional shared housing services initiative. >> I think what we've seen in recent years is the Cape Commission has been more
involved in their regulatory oversight role as opposed to in developing housing. I think there's some concern that playing an active role in developing housing actually creates a bit of a conflict with their regulatory function. So they can do some planning,
but the kind of hands-on aggressive role that they used to provide before is something they just don't do anymore for a variety of reasons. >> Thank you. >> Do you have anything else, Greg? >> Questions? >> I usually do, but I've got nothing.
>> Okay. Hey, um, Yarmouth Housing Authority. >> Uh, we're meeting tomorrow at 5:15 for our December meeting. We didn't have a November meeting. Uh, there's been a glitch in getting the meeting properly posted, but the town clerk has fixed
that glitch, I believe, and so I thank her for that and the assistant town clerk. So, that's tomorrow at 5:15. And I'll tell Go ahead. >> Yeah. And so on the agenda, are you going to be talking about formation of a
subcommittee? >> That's is is on the agenda the to uh try to form a uh I don't know how it's worded on the agenda, but it is on the agenda to establish some kind of liaison with the select
board and the uh housing authority on a subcommittee or basis. Okay. >> You wanted him to hear that and then >> I wanted Mark to hear that. So,
so the um housing authority is meeting tomorrow. they have an idea um to form a subcommittee with representation from the town um non-quorum, you know, a subcommittee >> to to review the RFP
>> to make sure that it for forest road to make sure that it addresses the key concerns that's been raised from the town. So, we lost November, we're back, we're here in December. >> Um so, the housing authority meets tomorrow. Um, John Bar is the uh
governor's appointee to the housing authority and Drew is uh elected. So, >> congratulations. >> Thank you. >> I think I know. >> Um, unfortunately, Maryanne Walsh passed away. Um, she was a member of the
housing authority. She was on the >> community preservation committee. >> Community preservation committee. She was uh when I first started here 20 years ago, she was on this committee um and taught me the basics about affordable housing. So, um yeah,
>> very good lady. >> Very good lady. So, she'll be missed, but um onward. >> Uh let me see, where are we? Affordable housing trust. >> Oh gosh. The affordable housing trust um has an RFP out for uh rental a rental
assistance program. Three entities uh responded HCH Howard Medical Council for housing hack housing assistance corporation and I think it's island planning. I think that's what it Yeah. So we have three proposals. The trust
has three proposals to look at. So that's exciting. Um, and other things. They had a presentation of a draft report from UMass Donahghue Institute, uh, uh, regarding short-term rentals.
Um, so we gave them our first round of comments. We're meeting with them later this week. Dedra is in a small uh, subcommittee um, about that. I'm on it. Um, I have to check in with everybody to make sure everybody knows about it. I
think Bob Lton's on it, Kathy Williams is on it, Megan Eldridge, our new director of uh community development, just to make sure that certain questions that were asked of them um at that meeting with the trust, including a a question by Mark gets answered in the
report or if somehow, you know, it's addressed how to answer that. So, that should be exciting. >> Um I I think >> Can I can I just add a couple comments? Um, this has been another priority of mine. It's important that we understand
what we have here in terms of the short-term rental market and it's important that we have some people that are can help us understand it and also help us understand to what degree it might complicate our lives with respect to affordable housing. >> Yeah, >> affordable housing.
>> Often times people much of what we get these days is speculation, right? People guessing and assuming trying to make some sense out of it all. And I think that it's far better it's far better to to get some data and get some information and to begin probing this
area than just sort of guessing at it. And um I think the consultants have have helped us. We still have more work to do on this because I'm not convinced we've gotten an answer to our questions. Um at least I'd like to see something a bit more definitive. Um, and I'd also like to see whether or not as we learn more
about this short-term rental market, are there things that we should be doing from a regulatory side to deal with any of the downsides or negatives, if there are any? And I think there are some and I think we need to have a broader conversation in the community about uh
where we encourage short-term rental housing and some areas where it it's created some real problems, but it's not it has not been nearly as serious in our community as it has been in other communities. In some communities, you can do short-term rentals almost
everywhere and they're done everywhere. And that's created some real friction in some communities. Um, and as as you may know, we also get some revenues. There's some tax revenues that we utilize to finance wastewater. There have been
questions that since we're going to need more money for financing wastewater, how sensitive is that market to any increases in taxation? Right? Maybe it's in our interest to support legislation to allow that tax to
go up so that we can do more in terms of financing wastewater. And as we all know, if we finally see more more waste water, then we can do more housing >> and we can do other things. >> I'm so against raising taxes, but not there. I think that's a great idea
>> that yeah I think there's there's I think our success in Yarmouth for doing wastewater has been predicated on our commitment to find other means to finance it before we go to property taxes. But here's the deal. We've we've taken all the lowhanging
fruit on wastewater. All right. are all the the money that's we can we've ident we we've done a very good job of tackling a number of revenue streams to to provide a fund to pay for the bonds and the the interest um to do the next
phases we're going to have to come up with some more creative ideas in terms of how to do it um I think the select board um again it's not my place to speak on behalf of the board but I think there's generally been a tendency to not to stay away from that and continue to
find other way to create ways to creatively finance it. It may very well be this becomes a source of revenue that we just have to put on the table and at the state house and with the governor. they're interested and we've had meetings with the lieutenant governor on
this topic and she's in she encourages communities to be um creative and coming up with local revenue sources that can be put on the ballot here or us coming up with ideas because they're not going to give us more money grant money or
funding money for for for wastewater. >> The main sources of funding that we get are pretty much set. There's no new program coming down the road. Although I will say that we did successfully lobby the administration to put in a bond bill, an environmental bond bill a half
a half a billion dollars in dedicated wastewater money for Cape Cod. >> Now u the language doesn't say Cape Cod, but it it the language is written in a way where it can only come here. Um so we we're engaged in some creative
legislative drafting. So, but the point is is the short-term rental study will help us figure out where we can go or how far we can go with that. That's my hope. >> Do we know who the the owners of these short-term rentals are they from out of state?
>> The study looks at local ownership and corporate ownership. Um, I'm not sure we've identified geography yet, but I think the idea is I think there is a concern in some communities where they're seeing a huge growth in corporations. That's what Yeah, that
seems very bad to me. >> To the extent that they were able to identify, they said there is not much, >> but it certainly demands more. >> There's one right next door to my house. >> Pardon me. >> The data queen over here.
>> So, yeah, >> I'll ask you about it. >> She'll know all those questions. >> But there's a lot that we don't know yet. >> That's why Deedra is on the working group, >> right? Thank you for She picks up. >> What's the uh end date on the study?
>> Oh, so we're um staff is and some uh committee members are meeting with UMass. I think it's is it Thursday? >> I think it's this Thursday. >> Um I think that we need to figure out the questions and the comments that have
been given so far. Is it in the scope of the work? Do we need to increase the scope or go forward? And then hopefully um it it'll be released with a formal presentation to the select board in the first quarter of 2026.
Um hope that's what I'd like to do because we can start using it because there's a sunset there's something that sunsets in the local zoning about short-term rentals. uh the existing rule which uh basically it's fairly limited
but just you can't rent for less than two days and a few small things uh sun sets at the end of 26 is it >> I think so >> yes I think >> November 2026 >> so you'd be looking to October town meet
your fall town meeting >> to adjust that otherwise I don't think short-term rentals are allowed anymore in Yarmouth So we need this >> the reverse that there are no >> oh there's no rules >> right right what what you want to be
able to do is address the absence of the expiration in the fall and this information can be useful in terms of informing ourselves yeah >> there what other things might we need to address mean like we need we need to get that report finalized so the planning
department and the planning board can go forward >> in making a decision with this zoning bylaw that sunsets in November 2026. >> And there's and there's nothing wrong with having a report that says you don't have a serious problem there. >> The other thing sometimes it's helpful
to know the mag, you know, there's a perception, but you don't have a handle on it. If at the end of the day we find out that the short-term rental market is not as large as some might think, it's not having an adverse impact in terms of our ability to um you know create more
uh affordable year- round housing. Um, that's all good information to have. >> On the other hand, um, there may be ways we want to create incentives in the short-term rental market that tie directly to affordable housing >> and we may be able to benefit from some
added consulting guidance to figure out ways that or some approaches that are successful elsewhere that could be applied here. >> So, are you aware of any of those now? >> No, but our the consultants that we work with since they're looking at this, they're they're pretty familiar. So my
sense is is that that's probably the direction we're going to go in is that once we get done with this report, we'll provide some guidance to the planning board and the planning staff and then we'll get some probably start looking at uh some approaches that we can take to
incentivize some of these rental units to be put in in an affordable uh comp component uh or program. So that'll become Yeah, I think right now we're What what I what I like about what's going on with your committee, the
affordable housing trust, the planning board, and everybody is we're all thinking about the same thing, and we all seem to be genuinely interested in trying to be creative and work within the some of the some of the parameters that have been expressed by our
residents. So, I'm always sending Mary ideas that I pick up from other places. Uh the New York Times has this section in the in their regular edition on states and creative approaches to
solving problems >> like 50 states 50 ideas or something like that and there's always something interesting there's always successful approaches that other communities other states are using >> and some of them some are good ideas and
um so I keep sending Mary clips in the middle of the night when I'm catching up on my email >> I'm gonna forward that one to you Yes. And and you know, all using all tools in the toolbox. I think early on in our
affordable housing program, we decided to use all tools in the toolbox because it wasn't like this glaring solution. You know what I mean? >> And what we have found is some things don't work. You know, we did we had a loan program, a construction loan
program for ADUs. It didn't work out. You know what I mean? But this rental assistance program really prevents homelessness in Yarmouth. Sometimes somebody just needs help with one or two months rent >> or that first and last and it's
preventing homelessness here at the perfect level for Yarmouth, you know. So, um, >> and rental assistance was pioneered in another town on the Cape and then eventually we picked up on it. Bob Murray who was the found the housing authority director in Falmouth. Bob
Murray Murray was >> and he started Hatch Howard Medical Council for housing. >> Yep. >> Which now is one of the two entities running the rental assistance program. So >> yeah, the other tool that we have in the toolbox is a home improvement program. >> Yeah. >> That we've really started to capitalize
on. I think that's another again uh no silver bullet but >> to make it easier for people to live in their homes and >> stay in their homes. Yeah. >> Stay in their homes uh when you know there's a leaky roof. >> You know you need >> maybe a ramp or something you know to
make it work for them. I think that's a program that I'm very excited about as well. >> Yeah. I think we're at about 50 houses. >> Wow. That seems >> that's significant to me. You know, these are people who really cannot get any other type of financial support.
Boom. Their roof is done. Their windows are done. Their siding is done. >> How many hoops do they have to jump through? Not that many. >> Not that many. >> No. Hatch does Hatch administers that is good, isn't it? >> Yeah. House Council for Housing Maximum on on
>> It's right now it's $50,000 per house. It used to be 25,000 and some of those houses that were kept at 25,000 are like, "Well, we never really had money to do the roof and they're coming back and we're expanding it to 50,000." >> Their loans, they don't expire. Well,
the ones that we make now, the first round, they expired in 15 years. So, if you didn't sell or transfer your house or go to a reverse mortgage in that first 15 years, we discharged it. Right now, it's forever. Whenever you sell it,
whenever you transfer it, you give us back the money, it goes back to the community preservation committee. Um, and um, >> so they're not paying this back on a monthly basis. >> No, it's when they sell the house, they owe it's like a lean and it's 0%
interest. It's a they call it a silent mortgage. Yeah, it's a silent mortgage. Well, who wants to calculate the interest? It just doesn't >> calculate the interest, deal with the monthly payments. this is the easiest way to make a community loan and we're
done. Developers, we charge interest, but local homeowners, it is their money, right? It is. So, it it's been working out great. And once in a while, you'll see something in your neighborhood. You might go, "Gee, I didn't know they had money to do new windows and siding and a
roof." And you never know, it might be this town that helped them out with that. >> That's great. >> Yeah. >> You have to qualify. You have to be >> You have to qualify. You have to be low, moderate income. You have to pay your taxes. You have to pay your water bill. You have to have health and h house
insurance. There's all these things you have to have. >> There is a vetting process that they go through. >> There's a vetting pro process. Yep. And uh Hutch takes it very seriously. Very very seriously. >> They have to otherwise it wouldn't be a successful program. Right.
So, and sometimes it's a neighbor that comes >> and says, "Oh, you know, we help these people out, but we can't really do the roof. Do you have anything to?" And then that whole thing just kind of builds on itself and >> you know,
>> right? So, this is a tool that we have made funds available >> with the affordable housing trust >> and uh it's one of the reasons why I like being on the affordable housing trust is where we can be as incredibly creative. >> Yep. setting up these programs and setting up
these tools. >> Y >> I was wondering whether has anybody else heard the problem with insurance companies not wanting to insure your home if you have uh 20 plus years of roof shingle even though you may have bought 30-year shingles.
>> Oh, absolutely. Yes. >> Is that Myra? Yeah, we just had to in last this past January put on a new roof because otherwise we weren't going to get our insurance renewed. So, um yeah. Well, we were planning on it, you know,
and the schedule got accelerated. >> How old was your roof, Myra? >> I would say probably at least 20 years. I mean, it was in good condition, but it was older. So, >> so that may force some people to inquire
about the program. Correct. >> Yep. >> Good to know. >> Yep. Good. Uh planning board >> um the most recent meeting we had a very nice presentation from the library
building and um another discussion about MUK and a a long discussion about the short-term rental uh draft report that we are all looking at now. And there there was quite a lot of uh interest in the
planning board and a recognition that it will be coming back to the planning board next year and that decisions will have to be made and and approved and it's going to be the whole process like we've recently been through on the zoning amendments which we are we were
very happy that the special town meeting uh sort of ended our work on the comprehensive plan and the two zoning amendments and So those are the major things going on in the planning board. >> Never stops though.
>> Community preservation committee. >> We're meeting on the 19th and we're getting we'll hear the presentation from the um Yamathport Library who's requesting funding. They're the last group we haven't heard from yet and we're playing a town public hearing
somewhere in January. Don't ask me the date. I don't have it in front of me, but it will all be publicized. Um, and we've voted as we went along with the number of the projects that will go to the town meeting um, in whatever it is.
When is it in the April? Is it April? >> Town meeting. >> April. >> Yes. >> Yes. And I usually we decide how we're going to do this and I usually do the affordable housing issues in the uh we were talking about um HCH right uh no um
hands of hope >> no hands of hope who applies for funding to help people be from becoming homeless and for deposits for rentals and so forth and um the committee talked them into increasing the amount because they
can they might not be able to help more people, but they can more efficiently help the people that apply. And if they can help more people, that's all good. So, and that's they help a couple of other towns, but this funding is specifically for residents of Yammed.
So, that's a good thing. Um, so that's all I can remember because I'm not terribly organized nowadays. Um, but it's it's going good. >> Yep. So, Hands of Hope. >> Hands of Hope. I got recommended uh for
rental assistance program, >> right? >> It's kind of funny like the trust helps HTCH with the rental assistance program and CPC helps Hands of Hope, right? >> It's just like depending on everybody's schedule and response time to these
grant opportunities. Um and then the LA last year the trust funded the home repair program, but it looks like this year community preservation committee will. Um, so I that's why I end up doing all the contracts to keep track of
everything. Um, and then the CPC um, uh, voted to recommend to town meeting, $200,000 to the trust for general deposit. >> And there's $1.7 million that the trust
uh, received from town meeting for buy assistance. That's been going awfully slow, right? The market is just too high. we might be able to uh do more with that for mixed juice redevelopment on Route 28. So they've voted to
recommend town meeting add to the uses for that $1.7 million redevelopment mixeduse redevelopment on Route 28. So that that will be going to town meeting too. >> There's one other project. There were four affordable housing projects,
>> right? General deposit to the trust, >> right? buy down reprogramming for the trust HCH >> right >> uh got uh recommendation for home ownership repair and hands of hope rental assistance that's your >> thank you >> yeah and so we're going to have right so
the public hearing is going to be in January I'll make sure you know the date as soon as possible on the table if you didn't pick it up is the draft community preservation plan pick it up make comments get them back to Don Marie Flet
in uh community uh development, the department of community development. This is a pretty good plan. Not perfect. >> It could uh it could, you know, it's good. It's good. Um so, in my defense of being inefficient, I've been running
back and forth to Saras to help a sister who's, you know, not doing so well. And that's been taking a lot of my energy. So that's my defending. >> I know you missed um >> first of all I came back the meeting
when the affordable housing applications were in front of the CPC but I was there. >> Yeah I I did miss I came back from a trip and I was sick for weeks and then I went I've been going back and forth up to Saga. So >> how good of you been a lot of fun. >> Uh community development.
>> Yep. No big news except these are all the projects we're working on and programs and initiatives. So, um, we're busy. Um, >> okay. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the big the big thing is there might be, you know, an
expansion of the economic development program out of that department. So that's exciting and that will that will go right in line with you know this this potential being opened up by the sewing of the town for reasonable but
substantial economic growth. So >> okay uh upcoming meetings January 12th uh at 3:00 here. >> Yep. And um any other anybody have
anything else? And we get a motion to adjurnn. >> I move we adjourn. >> Second. >> We have a a motion and a second. Um roll call vote. Palm >> I. >> Myra
>> I. >> Greg >> I. >> Drew >> I. >> John I. >> Deodra >> I. >> Lee. >> Okay. All right.