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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=L8N25e4PiGU

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Recording in progress. >> Okay. Recognizing a quorum, the chair opens the June 8th, 2026 meeting of the community housing committee. This meeting is being live broadcast and recorded. Um,

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first order of business, uh, minutes. Everybody were in the packet. Did everybody get a chance to um review the minutes there from a long time ago?

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>> So um so we have a recording secretary Jennifer Clifford. So these are the ones. So >> if you have any comments I can pass them on to her. And >> I did read them. I have no comments. >> I didn't have any comments either.

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>> Yeah. So, does she do the minutes based on the recording? >> Yep. So, I send her the agenda. I send her uh all the attachments. >> Um you know, I let her know when we're meeting in case she wants to watch it

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and then she we have a transcription um we have a transcription uh program which you know she uses. >> I'm so hi Greg. I'm wrong. Greg is here. Do >> you need a packet or do you have one?

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>> I have one. Thank you. >> Oh, good. >> So, this is Yeah. So, I'm happy with this. So, >> yeah. >> So, did anyone have any comments on the meeting >> meeting minutes? Do I get a motion to approve or to um

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>> Did we need to do attendance first? >> Yes. >> Yeah. attendance >> by roll call vote. >> Roll call vote for attendance. Drew >> here. >> Josh here. Greg >> here. >> Myra >> here. >> John here. Lee >> Lee here.

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>> Pal >> and Pal is here. >> Here. >> Okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Sorry, John. Sorry. >> We were just so excited that we jumped to the minutes. Is there a first and a second?

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Uh motion to approve the minutes as as uh written. >> Second. >> Second the motion. >> Roll call for U. Drew. >> I >> Josh >> I >> Greg >> I >> Myra >> I >> John I Lee

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>> Lee I >> dear >> I >> Okay, I forgot Pal again. Pardon >> Pal. >> Oh I forgot Pal again. Pal I >> Okay, >> there she is. Awesome. >> Okay. Um, Madaki's utilization project

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uh presentation to the select board. >> So, that was on May 12th and the plans are so beautiful. I provided you all with color pictures. Great. Um, you can see that there's multif family

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housing in all three conceptual plans. um a variety of of unit sizes um and and just in the right ballpark that we're that our muk housing hub, you

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know, uh suggested. Um it's it's so interesting to me um how these plans evolve, you know, and just how nice these these look and have some basic things about traffic flow.

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um in addition to you know having the compatible uses kind of work together. >> What was the um this was presented to the select board? Correct. >> On the 12th. I don't know if um the director of community development has

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any further update. >> We have Megan Eldridge with us here today. >> Hi Megan. >> Hi. So, the MUK did uh present to the select board in May and they the select board

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reviewed all of the plans had some very um interesting questions and accepted the plans as they were. From here we have a second phase which is a mass development grant which will do a market study and

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um some analysis of the site itself with um hazardous materials and co final costs for demolition. Um the mass development grant will also look at um the feasibility for a public part

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private partnership for a sports complex and uh what the feasibility is for that. So they will be actually tomorrow night disbanding the madis utilization committee and their work their work is complete.

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>> All right. Was there any indication at which plan they were leaning towards >> the most cost effective? >> Yes. Yes. They understand that um in order to move forward the public needs to support it. It it will need a lot of

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funding if it's done just by the town itself. So the need for that public private partnership is is paramount. They they did have a lot of inter uh some questions about the solar array and the energy efficiency of anything that

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goes in there and the big question mark of the the elementary school and that feasibility study is going to take at least a year and a half before we have the answers to that. So whether that space is able to be used for future

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school or future development is a big question mark. So, um they they did like that design that that concept because it holds space for the school. Um not knowing if we're going to need it or not.

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>> Which concept was that? The one that kept the school space. >> B. >> And if they don't keep the school in the future, they can always do something else with that space, right? >> Yes. Yes. which is one of alternative C

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has something a a proposal if we don't utilize that school space for a school. There's the opportunity for housing initially or if we choose to do um sports initially we would we would swap

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it over to sports. So what what BSC Group, the engineering company that helped provide these concepts, did was give a menu of options that can be placed in and in any part of the of the

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design of the of the whole site. >> We've come a long way. >> Yep. >> It really is impressive. and they they each hold a decent amount of housing. And I think it's a good mix of um apartment units, town houses, and

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then some single family home options with either culde-sac type units or along Chickity Lane. So they they all have a good amount of housing. >> What an extraordinary job that committee did.

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>> Really did. >> It's amazing. I was lucky enough to go to some of their meetings and uh they were wellrun and very informative it's a great base for like the next step you know and I think it's interesting

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sometimes people just hire a consultant and then do the public outreach but it was really an intense public outreach and >> you know um getting everybody's thoughts upfront and then digesting it. >> It was really pretty seamless

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>> in in terms of you know the way these things can go >> right I mean there were some tense moments but we got through them easily. >> Their final report is available on the website for anyone to review and it's very thorough. So, the next step is

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feasibility study and and uh I would imagine with that that there's going to be some kind of um um programming for what's going to be inside the building itself. >> Yes, that that's part of the feasibility

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study of what what groups what developers out there are looking to do for a for a sports complex, whether it's indoor sports, whether it's indoor events. Um there'll be there'll be many opportunities for developers to give

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their input on what they see as a successful proposal. >> Does does a facility like this exist in Massachusetts or Rhode Island? There there are sports facilities like

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this that do exist. Um and they are listed in the report. Um there's there's one in Taton, I believe. Um or kicks is what it's called. So they have indoor and outdoor sports >> facilities there. and they are busy year

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round with with bookings from private sports agencies and and towns and uh municipal uses as well. But they they're mostly privately run. Um not not as much of a public interaction where there's a

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community space where a recreation department operates out of. Uh the closest thing we can really compare it to is the Hyannis Youth Center um which has the the ice hockey rinks and they

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the town of Barnes utilizes some office space out of that >> and that is again booked sun up to sun down year round busy place. That'll be a little bit different on Cape Cod with summer visitors and things like that

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whether you know how much how much um use you'll get out of this in the summer. But >> be interesting to see that. >> Yes, it will. >> Anybody else have any >> I'm looking at the four kicks website right now. It looks like a kind of a

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cool place if I was about 50 years younger. >> Which one are you looking at? >> Uh the four kicks in Taton. uh the the playing field and >> soccer, lacrosse. >> Yeah. And John, remember we put in a housing report, right, with benchmarks

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and photos? >> Yep. >> The recreation pod had a similar one and I think they had six or seven kind of like examples of what is a sports complex and where was it built in cooperation with a town,

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>> you know, and They they can be nice. They can be super super nice. So >> I know it's hard. It's hard here because it's like oh >> it's a rectangle. >> Yes. >> And it doesn't need to be a rectangle. It just it shows like that's the space. You're like oh

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>> we're not stuck with a rectangle triangle. >> Right. It can be a lot prettier than that. >> Any other comments? >> No sir. Okay. >> The thing I did like is that it's not

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highlighted a lot, but they they are saving trees. Do you know what I mean? Like they did make an effort. >> They are. And they they've they've done a lot of screening for Higgins Road. So even though the buildings might be large, there there is a a buffer there and very mindful of the neighborhoods on

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Chickity Lane um for for fields and if they should be lighted in the future trying to screen things. >> Things like that can be very problematic for neighborhoods. >> Yes. Yes. >> Some people really don't like

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Alternative Aquative A has the fields pretty close to Chickity uh Chickity Lane. So, if they were if they were lit, it could be some issues there. But, >> yes, we'd have to be very careful on the type of lighting and and where it's

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pointed. >> Okay. >> Um, >> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh, under new business, request for approval of proposed affordable rents. Captain Captain Glide Cliff.

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So, this this some of you might remember um these kinds of requests. So, Captain Glad Cliffe is uh a mo a former motel property that was redeveloped under a motel bylaw and inclusionary zoning um applied. So, seven of the apartments

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over there um h are subject to an affordable housing restriction which I think you saw in your packet. And with us here today is Paul Tardiff um who is representing uh Ron Bourgeois who is also here um and is the owner and the

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property manager of the property. >> Hello. >> So the regulatory agreement you know you set the rent and then when you know it doesn't project out what that rent will be in future years. So the system that we have

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with this regulatory agreement and we can always modify it is that the owner comes in every once in a while and gets approval for increases in the rent. >> So I I would ask the project proponent to just summarize what the request is.

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>> Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Um for the record, I'm Paul Tardiff. Sorry about this voice. I don't know what happened. There must be pollen or something, but this is Ron. >> There's no pollen around. >> Yeah, only in my car. Um, this is Ron Bourgeoa, who's the manager of um the Captain Glad Cliff LLC that owns the

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property. And as Mary said, we have seven affordable units over there. Um, we have two one-bedroom units, two studios, and then three twobedrooms as well. Um, and my, you know, you did get my letter of May 13th, I believe, and sort of sums up what we're doing here,

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but we're just looking, uh, under the formula that is set forth by the regulatory agreement. Um, we're looking to, uh, change those rents. Um, it's been a couple almost three years now. We uh, last time we were here was 2023.

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Before that was 2020, and that those rents hadn't changed since the regulatory agreement went into effect in 2011. So, uh, we're just looking to update that, um, with some of the conditions. I know, you know, Mary had talked about some certain conditions

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which were on the last approval as well. >> It's no problem. We've used the formula. The rents, um, are as indicated in the letter and, um, they do comply with, I think, all of those formulas um, that were uh, either recited in there or conditioned. So, we're hoping that you

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will recommend this uh to the for us to go to the select board and get approval up there as well. So, >> so there's two there's two big tests they need to to meet. One is they need to be affordable to u household who is

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earning 80% of the area median income and they have to be um at least 10% less than what their market rate units are. Um you can see that on that I gave you this right this sheet

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>> the summary sheet. Yeah, >> I think I emailed it to you, right? I I did put in the square footage because that's why when we first started, that's why the units the rent were so low is because the units were smaller than our

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uh required limit. >> Um so, and and they do they meet the the 80% AMI test, the the 10% less than the market rate. Um, and what we did is we

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went through a long process last time, I think the time before, um, when we raised the rent because six out of seven units were on had a voucher with them. >> Yes. >> Right. Because you can't price the rent so high that the current affordable

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tenant in there can't afford it. Right. So, uh, the board was comfortable with those six increases and remember there was one that doesn't have a voucher in it. So, we put the stipulation that no current tenant

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would have to pay more than 40% of their actual income. Right? and that any household that had a voucher that held a voucher that you couldn't raise the rent to a point that the voucher administrator didn't approve it. >> And so we tried it out and it seemed to

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work, right? Because the one unit that we know doesn't have a voucher is still the the the rent is really low. Um, so because they have a monitoring agent >> that makes sure that they comply with uh

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what's agreed upon by the town. >> Uh the unit 14. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it it's small. It's 252 square feet. It it serves that household very well. Um, and we've come to kind of

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an agreement with the uh with everybody that that one that rent is kind of kept low so that household can still afford it. Um, >> but the proposed rent is 82% higher. >> Yeah, you would if you approve that.

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>> There there >> Yeah, there are four units in here that two two at 21%, one at 28%, one at 82%. And um are you maintaining the same tenants in those units with this increase?

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>> Yes. And with that 82% that unit is um I think it was agreed that it could be as much as I'm trying to think of uh we kept it at 885 because that gentleman is a he's got he his income is limited. >> So we can only go to 40% of what he

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made. And the other part of it is um I probably could go up a little higher on him, but I just I I don't want a problem with him. He's kind of a a force to be reckoned with, this particular gentleman, but also it's relative to his income. >> And um he only makes so much money.

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>> So we can't So let's just say for round numbers, let's just say he made $3,000 a month. >> I could go for 40% of what he made. I don't even think he makes I think he makes $30,000 a year. He might make 40 now, but at one point he was making $30,000 a year. So $30,000 a year

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divided by 12 is 2500 a month. >> So this is kind of right on. So if he makes 2500 a month, 40% of,200 a month is roughly it's a little more than 885. So that's kind of how we came up with that number. However, we're allowed to

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go up higher if he were to move out. >> So we could get a new person. And so if he moved out again, and the other part of me coming back too is there's a big threat of rent control coming into play in the state of Massachusetts. So if I get locked into these numbers, even though we come in front of you guys,

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even if it was two, three years from now, I can only go up, it's it's basically like two and a half%. And I can tell you my insurance costs, my utility costs, and the taxes have gone up significantly more than that. Um, so it is what it is. Not to mention I got to pay maintenance guys, you know, cost

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of goods, all that stuff. You know, I'm not crying poor, but it is the the expenses do go up more than two and a half%. >> So, so if what I'm hearing, you're looking to raise the maximum you could charge to it to that 1609, but that's not necessarily what would be being charged. >> He'd be locked into the 40% thing,

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whatever he shows. And so, and and you know the game too, Josh, where he could show whatever he shows, he might make more in under the table, but I can't say, "Hey, you made another $10,000 at the table." I can only go on what he shows just as anybody just as he gets taxed in the same dollars. >> Right. But we're talking about the

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increase to what you could charge, not this is going to be the new rent for the current tenant, >> right? He would be it would be limited to 40% of what his income is based on what he discloses to us. >> If you condition your vote with that 40% cap, >> is he the unvoted person? >> Yes,

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>> he Yeah. >> So, we tried this. We tried this and if you see what the current rent is, right, you can see which one doesn't have the voucher, >> right? But you can see that Bass River Properties, they stuck to their word,

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right? They, you know what I mean? And their monitoring agent >> was I was told she was going to help uh >> Lobby Fitton, >> right? >> I saw some emails go back and forth. >> Yeah. So, she's the director of um the Barnstable Housing Authority.

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>> So, she helped them figure out what was the 40% rate for this household. And then the other ones were they have a voucher so their voucher administrator won't let them pay over 30% of their actual income.

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>> Sometimes they go up to 40%. But they have to approve any increase in the rent if they hold a voucher. So if you condition your vote with that as well >> that any new rent has to be approved by the voucher administrator then we

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shouldn't see any displacement. So, is Lori Finton, who's overseeing these, has she approved these? >> She's the monitoring agent. >> Yeah, I know. I know. Has she has she approved these changes? >> She is not the section 8 administr.

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She's just the um the monitoring agent. So, the section 8, the people that have the vouchers, >> yeah, >> they get administered by the various housing authorities. One of which is Bonsible Housing Authority, of which she works for, but she's not the rep. There's another woman named Jen Callahan who's actually the representative.

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>> Okay. >> So, every year Lori looks at the lease agreements like this. >> Right. >> Right. And she does, you know, I think she asks people what they make. Um, but she makes sure that they're in

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compliance. >> Okay. So, >> did she have any say on the increases or >> I know that she last year, last time we did this for that unit number 14 she helped out because I remember the emails. >> Yeah. And may I just interject too,

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there's caps of how much you can charge a section 8 tenant. >> So, for studios and it's a lot of money. It's um right now for a studio that's section 8. This is what's allowable with utilities included, which is what I do. Sometimes when utilities aren't included, it's less. >> But this is with utilities included. And

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this property is a utilities included situation where I pay the heat, hot water, electricity. Okay. So it's it was 1739 in 2025, which is significant. And it just went to 1834 for a studio. >> For a onebedroom, it's $1,846 and for a two-bedroom, it's 2422, which is a lot

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of money. It is a lot of money. Obviously, we have a lot of expenses, blah, blah, blah. But it does affect like a a lot of working people aren't as able to pay it as easy as a section 8 tenant would be able to. >> Well, these are all supposed to be affordable units, correct?

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so the utility allowance on these, if they were to be metered separately, would be about $200 each. Do you know what I mean? So, >> we're asking for less in all three situations than what's allowable, though.

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>> Okay. less than what those values I just gave and you haven't raised >> point. I mean, I can CC Li Finton on these decisions. >> Great. >> Well, that was my question if she plays a role in any of that. >> I just wanted to make sure it's on the record that these rents haven't been

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raised in three years. So, >> um I've raised a lot of rents in my career, probably 10,000 in. Yes. So I have a used to have a cut off point at 10% unless there were uh say uh some situations that maybe were but three years I think

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this is justifiable you know that um 82 sounds like an awful big jump but the other ones seem to be in line. Um >> and I think it is important to remember we're talking about the max allowable not what is actually going to be charged at this time. Um I'm pretty comfortable

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with all these numbers with those two stipulations of the 40% of actual monthly income and the um section 8. Um I can't remember exactly what that stipulation >> that um that any it's like any rent increase on a unit occupied by a

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household with a rental voucher must be approved by um the voucher administrator. >> Yeah, I'm comfortable with these numbers based on those two stipulations. >> Yeah. Would you repeat those stipulations again? >> Uh that it was the rent could be no more

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than 40% of actual monthly income for the tenant and that any increases uh on voucher holders need to be approved by the voucher administrator. >> Thank you. >> And Mary, you're comfortable with those two? >> Yeah, that's exactly that. That's what worked there before.

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>> Um and remember they're the they're on the ready renter list, right? So if there's a turnover, I know about it. So you know what I mean? Because I'll go there's a question on that form now like why did that person leave? Right? So um

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if we catch wind of anything like that, I mean Ron Ron is is one of uh the affordable housing property management persons who follow the rules. He really does. So, um,

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>> and and I'll actually be abstaining from voting on this one because I do work with Ron outside of this committee on several occasions. Um, but I can also agree that Ron takes care of his tenants. >> He follows the rules and they're not easy. >> That's good to hear.

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>> I used to have a full head of hair. >> I know. Sometimes he comes in, he's like, "What are you talking about?" But we get through it and it's it's that property is very interesting because it really is that true workforce housing that we're work looking for.

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Like so many of the people that live there because there's other there's market rate units in there too. They work on Route 28. they walk to work, you know, and um you know, the tenants do call me once in a while about things and

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they those are vitally important for for them and our local community. >> So, >> um any any other comments or or questions? >> Uh I just wanted to say from the Zoom Zoom land that uh I appreciate you guys

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being there. This conversation is very helpful to me trying to figure out how all this works because it is complicated. Well, thank you. Appreciate it. >> Any other >> end of comment?

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>> Um, I think everybody seems pretty comfortable with the direction they're taking. Uh, can we get a motion? Uh, I move that we approve the uh the rent increases with the stipulations

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that uh that Josh had stated. >> Second. >> Second. >> Okay. Uh, roll call. Drew >> I. >> Tom. >> I. >> Josh. >> Abstain. >> Greg. >> I. >> Myra. >> Hi.

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>> Lee. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> John. Hi. Thank you. And I and I'll Lee I'll I will CC Lori. >> Okay. >> On that. So So this is going to be a

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recommendation to the select board. >> Um uh I think last year I put it on the consent agenda and uh they wanted more information. So hopefully it goes on the consent agenda and it it it's all done. Um if not, we'll have to go in front of

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the select board and explain our math logic. >> Good. Thank you everybody. Thank you. >> Next on the agenda is Wood Road Habitat for Humanity neighborhood application and possible submission of comments.

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>> So, um, so I know it feels like you keep seeing this again and again and again and again, but here's the real deal. So, Habitat for Humanity has put in a formal application to the zoning board of appeals. Um, they have a date in front

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of the ZBA of June 25th. Um, I haven't seen the agenda yet, so I don't know if there'll be first or second or third on that agenda. Um, but I I gave you the plans. Um, I I printed out the large scale architectural plans

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in case John wanted them, but they were on the the the table over there. Um, you know, the project hasn't really changed. It's only getting better in my humble opinion. And they're and they're ready to get the permit and start working to

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be ready for uh, you know, completion and sewer hookup in early 2028. Mhm. I think there were they did make a couple of changes to four and five, units four and five. >> Um >> some additional architectural detailing.

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>> I know the the one that's right on Route 28, which I think is lot six. Um that has a special design. Um I know that's the one that was kind of missing from our packets for a while. Um but that has, you know, the the main

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entrance is from uh Wood Road, >> but it also has a porch and a door on the side that fronts Route 28, >> so it doesn't look like the back of a building on Route 28. >> There there's also a future drive where

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that looks like it's exiting where that existing dilapidated building is on 28. >> That's just in case. Is that a emergency type thing for >> That's just in case that that property owner responds to uh their inquiry into

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whether they would like to sell that to Habitat. >> So that's for future expansion to that lot. Um so >> from looking at this map, this is 28. Where was that lot? >> Let me

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right here. >> Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. Um, >> yeah. Okay. >> That >> Yeah, that building. So, they haven't been able to get in touch with the owner of the building, >> correct? >> So, they have they have um they even

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sent a formal letter and they have not heard back. So, um but if that changes and there's some interest, then Habitat at least has that future drive on the plan. Mhm. >> Um, >> isn't that odd that the owner has not

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replied whatsoever? >> The owner that the owner has not replied whatsoever to a major project abuing their property. >> Yeah. And you never know, maybe the ZBA notice will, you know, will stir their attention. I don't know.

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>> Yeah. But they have they have called and they have they have tried to out, you know, because it that property had a fire and really It's close. >> Yeah, it's very close. And you know, >> it's a nice saw. >> They've put up some arborvite screening

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there. >> Yeah, there's been some on and off, but never completed. It's not being used. So, >> right. But um if you look at the colorized plan, the one that has some color on it um you know there's three houses along

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Wood Road, one on Route 28 and um two that kind of abut the the neighborhood. Um so it's going to the the road's going to be called Uncle Charlie's Path. Um there's uh along Wood Road there's two

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threebedroom units and one onebedroom. >> Along Route 28 there's it's a one-bedroom unit with the special architecture and then the remaining two uh units is a twobedroom and a threebedroom. Half of them will be

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affordable to 60% of area median income and half of them will be um affordable to 80% of the area. they probably won't decide which one until they start to work with their um lottery applicants.

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>> So the lottery for Habitat is a little special, right? Um because they kind of try to see who applies and who's going to qualify and fit them to the right unit. Um, so for example, if they they

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did this lottery and, you know, there was no household that was that needed three bedrooms, they might change this plan. They would come back to the town, >> but they might, you know, modify that. >> Um, and um, the other thing is they they

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sweat equity, right? So for every working adult in the household, the household has to donate 250 hours of sweat equity. So the construction timeline is a little different than other projects because they they have

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volunteer work days, but they also have days that the, you know, the buyer has to be there to work. >> So >> So the buyer actually has to swing a hammer. >> Yep. Well, in in some in some way they have to they have to have some other things that they

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>> paint or you know do something. >> You don't want me swinging a hammer. A paintbrush was >> I always swinging the hammer maybe on this one. But uh um >> Jimmy Carter was swinging a hammer even after a serious fall. >> Yeah. Yeah.

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>> Do they typically have huge uh applicants to their lotteryies? >> I would say medium. >> Yeah. because people know that they have to do the sweat equity. >> Um they, you know, it's it's a more intense

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uh vetting process. >> You can say you built your own house, >> right? >> Your own bare hands. >> The glory of it all, right? Um >> and and this and these are uh Yarmouth uh priority. >> So there's going to be a local

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preference on four of the units for um there's going to be a preference, right? So at a minimum it's local preference which is you work here you um work you work here you live here currently or you have a child in our school system right

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>> but we've also asked there to be out of those four that one of the units have a veteran preference so we'll see how that goes >> and I think this is um these are the first onebedroom units

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>> right that's interesting >> that that that that that has been built in Yarmouth. It's kind of a new product for them, >> right? >> And but they're listening. Remember, you know, we're always like, we need housing for smaller households.

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>> Um whether they're just starting out or they're retiring. >> Um and um so this will be this will be very interesting to have two onebedrooms there. Um, so >> one thing I it there doesn't appear to

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be any parking for visitors. >> I mean, my driveway doesn't fit more than two cars either, so >> I I I'm not too concerned about that. >> Yeah. I mean, >> I mean, I can There might be something in the homeowners association. So, this will have a homeowners association,

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>> right? Because they'll all have to pitch in every year to plow, >> right? because that's one thing. >> Yep. >> Private culde-sacs, you know, who who who plows if the town doesn't, right? >> So, there'll be something like that. Um, and there'll be rules about visitor

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parking, and I'll ask them what their standard rules are. >> Yeah. >> They they've worked with the community preservation committee on delaying this construction. >> Correct. Because they were funded what, two years ago? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> For the sewer.

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>> Yeah, I know that. I know where the delay is. >> Yeah, >> but this is this is delayed based on the on the completion of that section of sewer line. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> You know, looking at the size of these driveways, they look like they're pretty big compared to the houses. So, um

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>> I've I've been in habitat communities where Yeah. It's obvious that a visitor is parked kind of like on the road, you know what I mean? But um >> well more and more they seem to be um multi multi-unit

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um developments when it you know originally it was sort of one house at a time. Yep. >> And um so >> yeah, they they are getting they're trying to keep their costs down >> and uh

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>> one nice thing is that they they foster a really good uh sense of community throughout the process and everybody who's in the program has a mentor and that relationship really doesn't end when they move into the house. you know, there's always that little bit of

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support. And I know that um you know, the folks in Dennis, uh, you know, they're like a a ready-made neighborhood. You know, they all know each other now because they work together and right, >> it's a really a very >> interesting and great model.

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>> It is. It is. It is. >> So, I think that um it would it would help the ZBA to know if you recommend approval of the project. I I don't I mean I don't think to date we've had too many negative comments.

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>> Um there were a few architectural comments early on that seem to be resolved now and um so >> I think I think I know you've taken formal votes on this before but I think

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this would be a good time to take another one. >> Okay. >> We support this going forward. support it and recommend the ZBA approve it. >> Can I get a motion? >> I move that we um approve uh the plans

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for this project. >> Second >> and recommend approval by the ZBA >> and recommend approval by the ZBA. >> Second. Uh okay. Roll call vote. Um Tom >> second >> I

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>> No, we did get a second, didn't we? >> Yes. Um, Drew, >> hi. >> Uh, Josh, >> hi. >> Greg, >> hi. >> Myra, >> hi. >> Lee, >> hi. >> And Dearra, >> hi. >> And John, I So,

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>> we do have copies of each of the units. Yeah. >> Well, we'll we're done with this now, right? >> Hopefully, >> I'll bring it um I'll bring it to the trust. The trust has an agreement with Habitat. The trust helped them buy the property. So I I you know I have to

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report to the trusts that this is in compliance with the agreement. Try to get them to also vote approval uh by the ZBA and hopefully that will be it. I'm not

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available June 25th to go to the ZBA meeting. So um I'll send you guys the um agenda just in case one of you can go. >> Okay. Uh, next item, affordable housing trust application for community preservation

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funds. >> Okay, so um the community preservation funding cycle is uh coming to us a little quicker than last year. um that's so that they have plenty of time to process

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um these applications and aren't meeting, you know, during the um holiday season or the cold nasty weather. Um so anyways, um this is due I don't I think it's due soon um or it's going to be published soon

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and so I figured I'd just get it to you now. >> We need to have Greg's name substituted for mine. Where do do I have that in here? >> Uh yeah. Uh page three at the bottom. >> Thank you. So, it's basically the $200,000 that the

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trust asks for every year. Um, it's for general uh deposit funds that are used to preserve and create affordable housing >> as outlined on page seven, >> right? >> Yes, that's the budget. Okay.

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>> So, if you if you go to the budget on page seven, um the other funds that help out with affordable housing is the US HUD community development block grant, CDBG. >> So, those where those numbers come from.

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So, these are dollar amounts that are these um can these numbers be moved around or is or is it $119,000 and the committee decides how that $119,000 is going to be spent? >> That's correct. >> Okay.

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>> So, the trust usually, you know, puts money aside for affordable housing creation. Um they pay my salary and the program administration. The other program that funds our affordable housing program is community development block grant. They usually do

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a preservation um uh with rehabilitation. This year they're going to do rehabilitation of affordable rental housing. They contribute some to my salary and a little bit of administrative costs which is like, you know, our

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office supplies and mailing and stuff like that. >> Thank you, Megan. So, we're basically today approving this $283,000 number. >> Yeah. You would make a recommendation to the CPC that they make this

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recommendation, approve it and make the recommendation to town meeting >> and that right now there's a >> part of their program is looking for a letter from you about it. >> Okay. Any other discussion?

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>> Can we get a motion to approve the budget as presented in on page seven >> and recommend to the CPC? >> Yeah. And recommend >> a motion make a motion that we approve this. >> Okay. Second.

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>> Second. >> Second. Okay. Am I in conflict in voting on this? If I'm on the C community preservation committee, >> I think you need to vote one or the other. >> I wouldn't vote within the committee, right?

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>> Okay. Then I'll abstain. So I withdraw my motion if I'm not I shouldn't vote here. >> I I move that we accept this as presented. Okay. Second. >> I second. >> Uh, roll call. Drew.

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>> Well, I'm on the community preservation committee, too. So, I guess >> you're not the representative from this committee. I am. >> Oh, okay. >> I think it's true. I think it's the same will apply to Drew. >> Yeah, I would think so. >> So, you're going to abstain?

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>> He's on there from the um >> housing authority. Housing. don't want to. You really shouldn't vote in both places, >> right? >> So, save your vote for the committee. Okay. >> Okay. >> I >> Josh I Greg.

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>> So, I voted I I was in the meeting but I am not on the committee and I didn't vote so I can vote here though, right? Yeah. Okay. I >> Myra >> I Lee >> abstain. >> Abstain. I John I. I don't think we knew that rule in the

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past. >> I'm glad that Megan is here. >> I have heard I have heard chatter about that >> before and that makes sense, right? >> Okay. Reports and actions.

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>> Uh chair's report. I don't have anything. >> Uh home consortium. >> Uh the last month's home consortium uh meeting was cancelled. The next one is June 18th at 9:00 a.m. via Zoom. Um, I

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would like to add something since I am speaking. The attorney mentioned or the uh or Ron mentioned that rent control is in the pipeline. I don't know if anybody saw the globe yesterday, but Mayor Woo has decided that she doesn't want to go fight the legislature or have a ballot

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fight. So, she is recommending a uh kind of a meet in the middle situation where it's not going to really be rent control, but there are going to limit rent increases to 10% moving forward. That's just her proposal. It's not but that's

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>> which makes sense to me. Um you put a cap on on what you can do to people as far as rents. At the same time, a landlord knows he's going to he'll have some money to pay for whatever, you know, expenses that he runs into. So,

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um, I thought that was pretty interesting. >> Yeah. So, they have enough don't they have enough signatures to get it on the ballot? >> I think they do and I think they're trying to avoid it, >> right? And so, sometimes they can negotiate with the legislature. >> Well, as we know, not all bad not all

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ballot measures that are that are approved by the the citizens get So, I think this is what happened. Remember the the uh fight for 15, right? They had enough signatures. They had enough signatures, but it never got on

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the ballot because the petitioner negotiated something with the legislature >> which um allowed, you know, made the minimum wage in Massachusetts 15, but

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did not adopt the automatic COLA annual cola increase. So, they avoided the the ballot question by negotiating. So that might be we that might be a little bit of chata leading

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to that. Um because right now the the ballot question would limit it to a 5% increase a year and the governor thought that would hurt our economy that people wouldn't build rental

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housing in Massachusetts with that law. >> I can I can see both sides of the story. I think 10% seems fair to me. >> So you said that when you >> I said it earlier that was my cap when I raise people's rents. Okay. >> I'm not going over 10% to anybody,

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>> right? Because because this is one of the things I tell all the property management companies, you know, that that I work with always raise it a little bit every year. So it's otherwise you you because some people come in and they I haven't raised the rent in seven

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years. I'm like, "Yeah, but now you're going to displace this household because they haven't gone to their boss and said, you know, I just I just got a big increase in my rent. You need to give me a pay raise." They've just been kind of status quo. >> And a lot of >> Well, there has to be some kind of

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expectation for the tenant of >> a lot of younger people don't understand that rents go up after your lease is up. They go, "What? You raising my rent? You we made a deal. It was going to be this." I go, "Yeah, well, that was for that lease." And that then it's I mean it's a learning process. Some some like

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oh my god I I had no I thought it was going to be this this much forever. Uh so um >> wouldn't that be nice? >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> There's been a constant advertisement on television about um how threatening

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um this this you know >> could be to the economy and all of this stuff. >> Very very negative ad. It was. Yeah, it's very And I haven't I haven't even read the last >> What was that, Drew?

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>> An anti- rent control ad. Yes. Is that what you're >> How it's going to eliminate available housing and >> it just goes on and on. It's very consistent on a lot. >> Well, >> well, it seems like Mayor Woo is trying to do something a little different,

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>> a compromise. Yeah. Uh, Drew Yarmouth Housing Authority. >> Um, years a long long time ago as a young person, I lived in Manhattan in a rent control apartment and I lived there

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in the early 70s and the rent hadn't been raised since the 1930s. So, the rent was like $40 a month and the the uh landlord had done no improvements on the building. The whole

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building was falling apart. So, that's like the downside of rent control. That's one of the downsides of rent control if it's in an extreme version. >> We had a building like that in Boston and in there was a a god she she she's

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alive today, but she lived in the basement studio apartment. The rent was $25 a month. >> Yeah. >> And and and she's the only person I ever raised more than 10% because >> it was a 250 $2.50.

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So >> So Drew, do you have a report about the housing authority? >> Housing authority. >> Drew, are you there? We'll be considering a a new revision to a propo possible proposed request for

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proposals for a developing our land that's located on Forest Road. And uh there could be a vote on that, I think, tomorrow. That's the That's my update on that. >> Okay.

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>> Uh affordable housing trust. >> Can you still hear me? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Uh >> I've lost you. Huh? >> No, we >> you found us. >> No, you can't. >> Um, the last meeting was uh was cancelled. Uh, next meeting is June 16th

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at 9:30 a.m. >> And I've got big news. We issued the RFP today for uh development of affordable housing. Um it's uh minimum requirement is that it's a property that's under

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disturbed underutilized or blighted on Route 28. Um the uh the amount available is up to two awards of up to $500,000. So and I've already gotten three requests

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for the Really Wonderful. >> Yeah. So it's out there. um you know it triggers interest when you start talking about these numbers. Um so it's really exciting. So >> is this one site or are there multiple sites?

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>> Two sites they can they can uh award up to $500,000 >> and up to two different sites. And so they'll see what comes in. Um the uh the they're due the RFPs are due uh July

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15th and the trust meets like that next week. So it it we could make some good progress. >> So >> So anybody responding can opt to go for either site or both if they so. >> It's true. Yes. Okay.

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>> And it's acquisition funds, right? And so it's basically a transfer of ownership, right? It's something that's not moving. It's something that's stuck for whatever reason. Um try to get a new team to look at it. Um and then if um

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you know, if people call and their idea doesn't quite fit, you know, we'll encourage them to write a letter of interest to the trust. Um, and there might be something else we can do, um, or issue a different kind of RFP, but it's very exciting. We've been working

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on it a a while. And, um, the Department of Community Development with Megan and our town planner, Kathy, has looked at this um, and the and the planning board when we get to that, you'll see that they're still doing stuff about mixed use analysis. So, I think it's

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>> Can you tell us what where the sites are? Um, no I don't I can I can tell you that the people who have asked for their for it uh I can I can recall two um Sandala Customs um that's out of uh Dennis they did that

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trotting park >> did the project that we walked through. >> Yeah. >> Um Habitat I'm going to send a copy to Habitat and then there's a I'm sorry I don't remember off the top of my head. It's a it's a newer group that I haven't worked with before. So, but

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>> so they apply for this and then they decide that they're going to they're going to try and buy one of these. >> I think that I think the trust is going to want to see a conceptual plan at least for a site. You know, they're supposed to show that they're that they're that they have some

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type of agreement with the property owner, >> right? Um we have done we have done RFPs in the past like 15 years ago we would set aside the money and say go out and shop but we haven't done that in a long

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time. Oh, hypothetically the the sand dollar we'll say goes to an owner and says, "Hey, >> I want to buy this." >> Yeah. >> And fix it up and do something with it. And >> they would bring their conceptual plans. Right. Okay. >> Yeah. And the trust is going to ask

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them, "Well, >> do you have a purchase and sales agreement? Do you have an exclusive option to purchase?" You know what I mean? And that's when they start to talk and meet. Myra's been through this. they start to talk and meet and start to figure out if we can go forward and

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support them. And then that's why we have these eightpage, you know, grant agreements, right? Uh there's no standard contract to these ones, right? They were all, you know, but um but yeah, the trust has that flexibility and

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the RFP gives them that flexibility to sit down with people who are real and are interested. So >> that's great news. >> I I think it's going to be exciting. >> And uh you know,

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hold on because you never know. We might need comments from other people about stuff along the way, but I think we have a good vision for what we want to do on Route 28 and this will help us get to it. So I know so exciting. >> Planning board.

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>> Yeah. Last week, we had a very long discussion on the uh short-term rental uh issue, which as you probably remember has to be either renewed or revised at the uh November town meeting. And most

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we uh Kathy got copies of just about every Cape Town's policies on short-term rentals and most of those are in their general bylaws. Well, while ours has been in the zoning bylaw, and we may suggest that it's better to move it to

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the general bylaw to make it um trying to it it makes it a little bit more enforcable and and uh better coverage. I think I'm not sure of the reasons why it's better really, but a lot of the

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discussion was about the uh the fact that short-term rentals are really an important part of our local economy and we don't want to change anything too much. And there there are complaints

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about uh people being annoying, you know, renters have to have making too much noise, having too many cars, all the usual things. But the existing rules should just be maintained and enforced. And that's a problem because it's

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difficult for the town to enforce. But our discussion sort of centered on uh really clarifying what the rules are and who you can complain to and how they are handled and all that sort of thing. And the other thing that we would focus on

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would be limiting ownership to avoid corporate takeovers that would be, you know, buying up lots of houses to rent out. So something like a limit of two or three uh short-term

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rentals for any individual owner and um restrictions on any kind of corporate ownership and uh you know those are the key issues. It's going to be a long ongoing discussion with public hearings and various discussions about it.

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>> Did you did did did you when you looked at at what other towns are doing, is it all pretty consistent? >> It is. It really is pretty consistent. Uh some of them are much more detailed in their bylaw descriptions and um but

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they're all pretty consistent in in their approaches and I think that's important. We don't want to be too strict and have people say, "Oh, we'll go to Dennis instead." >> That's great. I love that whole thing about the enforcement, you know what I mean? Like that whole like

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>> we do have good >> Yeah. >> stuff on the books right now. How do we enforce that? And remember the report um that UMass Amherst did? you know, they were like, "Well, you can charge a fee

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that pays for a company that does the enforcement." I was like, "Hallelujah." Right? You know what I mean? Because I'm sure most of the most of the things happen over the weekend. >> So, if you make the enforcement agent a town staff person, like, how does that work? They don't work Saturday and

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Sunday, right? >> Well, that's the thing. >> Just if there's a a a party, you you you call the police and the police come and break it up. Is that I mean >> what you saying in I mean I'm trying to think like how else I mean I remember what I was like as a teenager some of the parties we threw down here

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>> who >> who's talking >> but I think I think what happens is that that body the police they can say well we're too busy to deal with a noise violation right now. Do you know what I

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mean? Like you know what I mean? Like it's it's like if you had a a a company that takes care of that, right? They're never going to say, "Well, that violation isn't important." You know what I mean? They're going to because they're getting paid to do it. Like

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there was a It was an interesting concept. >> How do you empower them, too? >> Well, that's what I was going to say. I'm I'm I'm 19 years old and I've had a few beers with all my buddies and someone shows up and goes, "Hey, quiet down." Well, it's it's >> need to have a beer or go away.

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>> End up being fines to the property owner probably and then they might write a bad review on Airbnb for that client, for that tenant, for that renter. >> Um, which is, you know, >> might set off flags otherwise. So, >> and that a lot of the discussion was

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about making sure that the management was clearly specified whether it's the owner themselves or Delmare or whatever they are that someone that's managing that can be contacted at all at any

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hour. And one person who wrote in about terrible complaints about all the college kids destroying his neighborhood. And when the owner found out about it, the owner was just as mad as the neighbors because they and they wanted, you know, it it was just

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interesting to see how well the town took care of that complaint and how much the owner wanted to restrict things and obviously didn't realize how badly >> the tenants were behaving. Uh so it's it's it's going to be an interesting

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discussion, but I think those are kind of the basics. When I moved into my neighborhood, there's a house sort of beside me this rent season until one neighbor told me, "Oh, it's been a nightmare." Never happened. >> Yeah.

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>> Never happened. Never an issue. I think they cut down on how much they rent and it's never a ton of cars, never a commotion. So, I don't know what she was talking Maybe she had a different experience years before, but I sure as haven't. I've been there 12 years now.

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With Airbnb nowadays though, the a host can also leave a review for whoever the renter was. >> So when somebody puts in an application, >> they could block renters. >> Yeah. When somebody puts in an application to rent your property, the host can look at what other people have said about you

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>> and you know, they always ask what what are you doing here? Are you in town for a wedding or what? You know that there's a lot of ways they can screen better renters. >> Did this happen to you because you trashed a place? I'm I've only got good reviews on Airbnb, but I'm aware it exists.

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>> And and those issues definitely preceded Airbnb and everything. I remember all the many years I was here as a kid, as a young adult, >> people always complained about renters. And >> there are people that are basically blocked by Airbnb that cannot rent an

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Airbnb. >> Yeah, >> definitely. >> Uh nice report. >> Thank you. me. >> Yep. >> Oh gosh, I keep forgetting it was supposed to report. I can't remember

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when the applications are due. And I know we've done this every at every meeting, so I should come better prepared. >> Yeah, I think I don't technically I don't think the application has been released, right? >> Right. It's going to be in the newspaper next week.

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>> Yeah, >> I think it's due in September >> and they're due September 7th. Okay, they're due September and then when they start coming in, the committee meets, we go over them. Most people come in to present their their proposal and answer

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questions and so forth. So, um, Don Marie is very efficient. She does a really good job with that. We get this big packet and go over the applications and then she sends out questions to the people so that when they come, they're they're prepared to answer questions.

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>> That's good. Um, it's pretty efficient. It's pretty well done. So, that's what I thought. I thought they were due in September. And then that's when we start meeting every single week. >> Yeah. >> When I first joined that committee, I didn't have a clue and what I was

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getting in for. And I was working as a consultant and I was working on some very big projects and it over overlapped with that big commitment. >> Great program. And every year we're like, how many how many applications we gonna get? And we always get like more than we thought. I mean, it's very

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popular and it's wellrun. >> This was the first time at town committee that two of the proposals got challenged by one person. A very pretty negative challenge. So why are we spending money on that and then um the you know >> maybe we can put more in the

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explanation. >> Yeah. You know, maybe >> sometimes the the same thing gets approved again and again and again and the explanation in the book goes smaller and smaller and smaller and >> one of the questions was how how do we know that the money goes to Yamoth residents?

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>> Yeah. >> And that was really nicely addressed by the town >> because we we we reimburse we reimburse and we get all the billing and we know that they're they're Yamoth residents. So that was that was that you that got

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up and answered that question. >> Yeah. >> Department of Community Development. >> Um just just the town meeting, you know, was good and approved our affordable housing funding. Yay.

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So, um, a rental assistance program got approved, a rehab program got approved, our general deposit to the trust got approved, and the reprogramming of the $1.17 million from buy down into um work on

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Route 28 that got approved. So, the trust is in good shape. >> Okay. Um upcoming meetings July 13th, August 10th, September 14th

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and any other discussion items. >> So do you if there's no pressing item, are you okay with cancelling July 13th? >> Yep. >> Okay. So I'll work with the chair on that. If there's no pressing vote or anything like that,

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>> we can cancel July. >> That's fine. >> Okay. I'm finally back and you're canceling the next meeting. >> NOW I'M LIKE I'M LIKE oh >> we could do meet every other month now. >> If you want to do August, we could we could do July or August. Which one do

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you guys more comfortable? >> Doesn't matter to me. >> Doesn't matter. It makes Josh feel better. We'll do July. >> I think July is great. Let's Let's get rid of July. >> All right. >> Well, it's good to have you back. >> Thank you. >> Yes, it is. >> Um Okay. Can I get a motion to adjurnn?

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>> I move that we adjourn. >> A second. Second. >> Okay, Drew. >> Looks like Drew is dropped off. >> Yeah. Pal. >> Hi, >> Josh. >> Hi, >> Greg. >> Hi, >> Myra. >> Hi, >> Lee.

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>> Hi, >> DeArra. >> Hi, >> John. Hi.