WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=kO89WziXZok

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: kO89WziXZok):
- 00:00:08: Meeting Call to Order: Santos Addition Request Discussion
- 00:03:57: Bank Stabilization and Tree Removal on Susan Row
- 00:09:16: Erosion Data Questioned, Nourishment Trigger Point Suggested
- 00:15:50: Motion to Accept Project with Special Conditions
- 00:18:35: New Revetment Proposal on Great Island Road - Continuance
- 00:19:42: Addition and Boardwalk Proposal on Feeasant Cove Circle
- 00:26:27: Buffer Zone Regulations, Fertilizer and Lawn Grass Ban
- 00:27:35: Motion to Accept with Special Conditions Approved
- 00:28:38: Stairs and Boardwalk Replacement on Great Island - Violation
- 00:33:32: Presentation on Boardwalk Replacement, Regulations Discussed
- 00:41:50: Boardwalk Compliance, Dune Height, Kayak Access Queries
- 00:57:45: Motion to Continue Boardwalk Project with Fine, Mitigation
- 00:58:33: Abandoned Retail Store Demolition Discussion - Continuance
- 01:01:05: Abandoned Retail Store COC - Continuance
- 01:02:09: COC Review, Unpermitted Walkway Issue, Curange Road
- 01:06:20: Discussion on Unpermitted Walkway, Mitigation Options
- 01:11:25: After-the-Fact Filing, Consultant Responsibilities, No Fertilizing
- 01:17:48: COC Pending Admin Review, Mitigation for Walkway
- 01:18:31: Garage Edition and Stairway Replication COC - Approved
- 01:20:26: Swimming Pool COC, Unpermitted Deck and Patio
- 01:25:26: 14 Compass Drive COC Approved with Dissension
- 01:26:33: House Construction, Dry Wells, and Unpermitted Patio
- 01:30:11: COC for 7 Cape Isle Drive approved with Dissension
- 01:31:34: Porch Enclosure, Stored Boats, Salt Marsh Discussion
- 01:32:59: 12 Railroad Bluffs COC approved; benches and boats must be removed
- 01:33:25: Dock and Bulkhead COC, Native Plantings, Tree Replacements
- 01:36:44: Blue Rock COC approved pending Tree
- 01:37:19: Approval of Minutes and Other Business Discussion


Part: 1

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Recording in progress. Okay. Good evening. Uh welcome to the Conservation Commission meeting for Thursday, May 7th, 2026. We're going to begin right away with a request for determination or

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applicability for Lorel Santos, 96 Southshore Drive, proposed addition in land subject to coastal storm flood. You'd like to sit down, introduce yourself >> and make sure >> Good evening to the microphone and all that stuff.

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>> Good evening. My name is Laura Val Santos and I'm requesting an addition for 96 out drive at the quartage. >> Do you have any specifics you'd like to describe or

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>> I put it straight forward? It's uh 22 by 8 ft. The addition I made some pictures and I forgot Mboro. I'm sorry. So um it's the existing area is a patio

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brick patio area. Yes. Thank you. Jo, anybody have any questions? >> Hello. Do you have any comments? >> Uh just one. Um from the ZBA hearing, they said that the lot coverage

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calculation on the plan wasn't correct. Are you going to be giving them a new plan? >> Yes. Okay. >> David Sedowski, he should be on on the Zoom meeting. >> Did the the engineer >> the engineer? >> Yeah. He's gonna he's going to provide >> Okay. So, just as I'll I'll wait to

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issue this if they decide to issue a negative two, which is what I'm going to recommend, but I'll wait to give it to you until we get that final plan. So, I can have that. >> Yes. >> Negative2 is positive. >> That's what you want. >> Oh, thank you. Everybody gets confused by that.

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>> Yeah. >> Anybody in the audience? Anybody online have any comments? >> Having seen none, do I hear a motion? >> Actually, if we're going to get a revised plans, if we could indicate that the law is

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entirely within land subject to coastal storm flowage um just as a conservation record, >> right? So it'll be it'll be accepting pending new plan. >> Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> And a negative two.

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>> And then I move to issue a negative two. >> Go ahead. You want a second? I need a second. >> I'll second it. But I have a question. >> Yes. >> I didn't hear one earlier.

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>> Yeah. >> Uh you're not going to expand that. You have no the impervious area or anything. >> That was one of the recommendation for ZBA. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No. >> Okay.

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Okay. Uh so we have on the table a motion to accept pending new plan a negative two. >> Yes. >> And I second. >> Second it already. >> Yep. >> All in favor. >> I opposed. Okay. That's it.

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>> My You have a great night. >> You too. >> You too. >> Yeah. Yeah. Follow that one. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Okay. Next is a continued notice of intent for SE832414

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Crawford land management for Scott Peterson 10 and 20 Susan Row proposed bank stabilization using core fiber roles and invasive tree removal and coastal bank and land subject to coastal storm flood. What?

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>> Hello. Um, for the record, I'm Jen Crawford from Crawford Land Management here representing the applicant. Um, this say this afternoon or this evening? It's like the in between time. I don't >> we like to call it >> today. >> Um, so I am filling in for Lauren. She

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uh is traveling, so I am pretty familiar with this project, but I'm going to just briefly go through the um summary of revisions and additional information that we provided to you. Um my understanding was that uh at the at the

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previous hearing there was a request for additional native trees to be added to the plan to replace invasive trees that are proposed for removal. So we have added three additional uh native trees in the new buffer strip along the top of

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coastal bank. Um the addition of those trees as they mature should be sufficient to be able to provide um large canopies that provide shade to that entire stretch as they um won't be

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um closely competing with each other for that canopy space. They should be able to stretch out nicely. Um, another request that was made at the previous hearing was for uh any erosion

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data that we um could find on this particular stretch of shoreline because it is not uh directly fronting um coastal zones. Um we we were not successful at finding specific erosion

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date um through Massachusetts Office of Coastal Zone Management. Um, we were also not um able to find anything through the town of Yarmouth's uh GIS system. That data just isn't simply available. However, what we were able to

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find was a survey that had been done years prior. Um and so we were able to overlay that old survey data with the current survey data and we were able to um deduce that there had been a loss of 5 ft of the top of that coastal bank for

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the section of bank that we are looking to stabilize. uh we pre provided provided we provided a diagram with our submission that shows the area of change from the um the older survey

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to the current condition. Um and I also thought that that diagram was a good representation of how that changing shoreline in that particular area. Um this is anecdotally but at least from

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the image you can see that the the area of change in that shoreline is also an area that does not have salt marsh in front of it. Um and so I don't know if those two things are linked or indicative of each other. Um but often

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when we see that erosion happen and and continue sometimes um sometimes those elevations will drop and that can then have an effect on how salt marsh is able to sustain or to grow in those areas. So I just thought that was an interesting correlation when I was looking at it. I

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don't again know maybe anecdotally but um but that was interesting to me. Uh anyway, um so we have provided that information to you um upon your request. And oh, the other

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thing that we also included was um was annual um nourishment that would be added to that area uh with a range of a minimum. And then what we felt a m an appropriate maximum would be should there be a storm system that moves in

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and really removes all of that in order to keep that fiber roll array. um covered for from UV degradation. Um as well as to help keep that beach elevation in front and the salt marsh areas that are remaining both in front

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and off to the sides um with with supplemental sediment and as high as they they can be. Um so with that, I believe that that um summarizes the requests that you had and the

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revisions that we've made. Um and I I think that you know in the end I believe that the the proposed condition with the combination of providing the greater stability to that landform system as well as actually providing a native

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buffer zone at the top and managing those invasives. I I believe that the project in the end will result in a a a much better ecological state both from an erosion control standpoint um as well as a native wildlife habitat standpoint

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at the end of this project. So I'm happy to try and answer any additional questions that you may have at this time. >> Anybody? >> Sure. I'll start. Um, thank you for providing that

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information. Um, it still seems to me that it's a little overengineered for the rate of erosion that's occurring in this area. Um, you know, 5T over the course of 20 something years is, you

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know, a quarter of a foot a year. Um, that being said, the invasive management I think will have a net benefit and I I obvious uh the bank was impacted. Um, as I said

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in a previous hearing, um, that to me seemed like in a erosion event in around 2018. If you look at um the Google imagery um so I I would prefer to

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see um instead of annual nourishment um something more like a trigger point. So um you know 20 or 30% of the the roles exposed is uh when we go into nourishment uh just so we're not over nourishing this area.

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>> Sure. That makes sense to me. Yeah, I didn't read it quite that way that that it was annual necessarily, but um from your notes someplace, I don't remember quite where, but I think it got into some of our notes that it was 8 to

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15 yards annually, but it's really just six feet over that period of time. Isn't that true? >> That like you just said? >> Yeah, that's how I read it. >> Yeah. The 8 to 15 comes from the memo that we

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got. >> Y >> memo. What memo? >> 15 comes from that. >> The one that I have on the screen, the revised materials uh it should have been in your packet. >> Where the end? >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think what we did um

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and my understanding is how Lauren calculated this was um if we were required for annual nourishment, we were we um used the uh eight cubic yards as an annual nourishment, but then recognized as well

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that if a larger storm system like like you were saying that came through like in 2018 or we lost all of that nourishment, then it may require more up to 15 to return that area to the design profile and to make sure that that entire array was covered. So that's why we we gave the range.

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>> That's fine. I >> that's good. But I >> our statement says erosion rate between 8 to 15 yards annually. But it's what it means then is if we you're talking cubic yards, not >> Okay.

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>> Yeah. Yes. But we're happy. I mean I think the trigger point >> tiny little >> tiny little thing. I wanted to be sure we had >> Yeah. No, that's fair. >> Anybody else?

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>> I I I agree with Bradford. Um I wrote a note is uh who and how will this be decided and I assume you'd have to come or I would like to put in there that you'd have to come to the office and get permission from either Joe or Britney to

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before you do any work for that. >> Yeah, sure. We have a lot of projects like this where we will um after kind of the bigger spring storm seasons, we will submit annual monitoring reports or we'll use something uh kind of a more not a not an actual like ground survey

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with a land surveyor but we use what we call a zip level. So if we know where we have um specific elevation points when we start the project, we can then go out every year and very quickly um reme-measure from those same points and understand in real time if the beach

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elevation is dropped and some things like that. So, we'd be happy um we'd be happy to provide a um kind of a a monitoring report for a couple of station points along there every time in the spring or if we feel that nourishment is necessary so that there's

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a little bit of data other than us just saying, "Yeah, we should do something." >> So, we'd be happy to do that. >> Um also, I have a couple notes here. Uh the beachfill material should be the equal grain size >> compatible sediment. Correct.

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>> And um no beach nourishment will take place May 1st through July 31st, >> which is our county Yarmouth. Um Joe, do you have anything else to add? >> Yeah, these are those are just the

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standard conditions for um nourishment. So um approval from the conservation commission in writing uh volume reporting, the grain analysis. Um, we were going to suggest bianual

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monitoring and the monitoring can include the salt marsh as well just to make sure that there's no unintended consequences from changing the >> Do you have anything specific with the salt marsh that you would like to see

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monitored or like to see photos of or like the beach elevations or >> um not me personally, but uh Britney might have some specific thoughts on that that we if you want to discuss those conditions before. >> Sure. Yeah. Because if there's anything specific, it would be wonderful if it

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was written in so we can make sure that we're getting the data that you actually want to see repeated on that. >> Yeah, understood. >> I think and you please check with Britney to make sure. Um but I think probably um the the edge of the marsh

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just to note if there's any change. Um so if it's receding or something like that. um I think is probably what she meant by that note, but >> No. Yeah, that's that's what I was thinking too, but I didn't want to speak for her. So, >> Sure. Yeah. And it that can also be one of those things that will depend on what

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time of year we're monitoring how how accurately we can capture that just simply because if we're doing monitoring, you know, in December or something, it's it's sometimes difficult to figure out um what's alive, what isn't, what is just kind of sitting there versus obviously in summer months,

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you know, exactly what's growing where, but we can work that out. That's seems like a easy detail to figure out. Uh, nobody's in the audience. Uh, anybody online uh have any questions or comments?

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>> Having seen none, does somebody want to make a motion to accept um with special conditions? >> Do we need to discuss the exact trigger point that we want to put in there or are you good with us working that out after you?

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>> You brought it up. you >> the Chattam Commission has a 30% threshold of exposed fiber rolls. Um, that's what I was going off of, but if anyone has a other ideas, I'm open to it. I just think a trigger point is more

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efficient than just annual nourishment. >> No, I I agree. I don't want to leave it completely up to us if does that sound reasonable to you? 30%. >> Yeah. I think the one thing um to me with and everything always gets it

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gets installed slightly different than what's on the plans just because there's always a different type of slope and things like that once you actually get around to installing it. But typically how our fiber roll projects are designed is for the very bottom rule to be um for

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the most part to be um buried. That way we can make sure that if there is any sort of large storm event where the beach elevation drastically drops that the bottom of the toe is really protected because if the bottom of the toe becomes unstable that's where we have the problems up top. So in this

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case um when I'm looking at the design profile if it's around 30% what I would equate that to is roughly the the not the very bottom roll but it would actually be the second roll on the array. Um, so basically when one of

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those roles becomes exposed, that would be to my how I'm looking at it from a design standpoint, that would be where that trigger point would be hit. So >> Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. >> Yeah. Yeah, because I think that would be the appropriate time as well. >> Okay.

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>> So >> that works for me. >> That's that's good with me. And if we need to tweak it a little bit before we uh >> Yeah, sure. >> Yeah, that's fine. So, do you want to make the motion? >> I move that we um approve this project

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with special conditions. >> Okay. You have the list, Mr. Joe? >> Uh I I just listed them. I think >> second. >> All in favor? >> I good.

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>> Well, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. >> The followup. >> Off to Mash P for another one. So have a good evening. Thank you. >> Okay, the next one is a continuence, but we'll need a vote for SE832529

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Cape Cod Engineering for Dewey and Margaret Awad 911 921 Great Island Road proposed new reventment on Coastal Bank, Coastal Beach and land subject to coastal storm flood flood flood. Saying that right? Yeah. continuence to

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May 21st. So, can I hear >> I'll do that >> back for a second? Second, Christian. All in favor? >> I >> Okay, got that one done. Right. Um,

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>> what was the date? >> May 21st. And I >> I made the what? >> I made the >> You made the motion. >> Motion. I did. >> Okay. I just got to make sure I'm on to

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the next thing here. That's what we just did. >> 61. >> We need to sign something for number two. >> Sorry. >> Keep him on.

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>> Okay. Um, next one is SE83 20, excuse me, 2525 Cape Engineering for Ann and Robert Wiggins 61, sorry, Feeasant Cove Circle, proposed addition and land subject to coastal storm flood.

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uh in a buffer zone to bordering vegetative wetland and after the fact filing for a boardwalk and deck in board bordering vegetative wetland and velocity flood zone chairman Bernstein members of the commission uh for the record my name is

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Dan Ojula I'm a land surveyor a civil engineer and also a soil evaluator um and helping uh the Wiggins out with permitting um this you may recall we looked at uh perhaps permitting an after the fact um walk out into the salt

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marsh. Um it was would have required some variances and and so it didn't look like we had uh any real uh traction on that. So we withdrew that portion of it. It's been replaced uh with with um just

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a normal fescue area um that will basically revert to a more natural area but still allow them to walk out there and uh take a look at the birds once in a while. Um the other uh that was more or less resolved a meeting or two ago,

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but then um there was a question of exactly where the the wetland line came. Uh this is a site where many years ago there's a delineation that was somewhat seawward to this. Um it's now u the area was um converted to lawn and some and

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some planting areas. Um but uh Britney Sharpey looked at the lower corner in the northwest and thought that you know perhaps some of that would be actually wet wetland um there's guidance that when it's a lawn you don't go just by vegetation and usually you look at

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hydric soils anyway um so we had done uh some holes out there um I had uh Brad Hall uh out to the site and with him penetrated additional augur holes in that area and refined find where the

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hydric soils came within 12 inches of grade. Um you there's always ground water on the Cape. It's you know deeper in many areas, but where it comes up within a foot of grade, you'll generally call that a wetland. And so um you've got information uh some detailed

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information. Uh we left the holes open. Uh the groundwater on the first hole upgrade into the wetland was a full 23 inches below grade uh or 26 inches down and then it came up about three inches. I left that overnight. Checked it next

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day uh with Brad. Everything was um right where where it was uh the night before. So nice steady. It's a silt lom, so it's a it's a it's a fine fine soil, but it did um uh carry a nice very gentle groundwater gradient down towards

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the salt marsh, which you'd expect. Uh the freshwater is a lens, and it goes a little bit higher, an inch or two higher um about, you know, a little more than a 1% gradient towards the salt marsh, just like you'd expect. So the next hole that you see on these

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uh this data that's up on number one um you know it's again it's disturbed ground with land in the gardens in the area aug 26 saturated soils at the bottom allow the ground water to stabilize standing water at 23 in the indication of hydric soils uh was a

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little bit above that at 18 in so it's well below the 12 in marks that indicate an upland at algole one and um again that series did did show a reliable very slight gradient towards the salt marsh. Uh we did the colors on the soil as a soil evaluator. I'm trained to look for

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models and signs of groundwater and um and so I helped Brad out with that and we think we have a fairly comprehensive report on that. The next hole um uh we I show is the the third one which is the wetland one. You try and do one

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upgradient and one down gradient. Uh and then um this one was the you know again ground was disturbed um there was some mulch over some old top soil and then uh when we went down um the water was um about 12 inches down a couple inches

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higher uh was hydric some staining and some um a little bit flatter soil colors. Um this is a springtime water level this time of year so it' be about the highest you'd ever expect. Um and uh so that first hole that was you know well below 12 inch mark. This one was

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within 10 inches. So we called that a wetland and then right at the wetland line. I also drilled down and we had it coming right up to about 12 in. So we think we've got it quite accurately shown flags are are are shown as tagged as number four there. There's A1, A2, and

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A3 and A4 going across that lower corner. uh we adjusted the um 50 foot and the 100 foot slightly to accommodate that and uh all the calculations were adjusted accordingly. So we feel the delineation was was

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nicely confirmed by the soils. I was a little bit um hesitant that there wouldn't be enough water movement through that soil to to do it but uh to the point the soils were um it's a nice farming soil and the the uh the water does get through it. It held a nice

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steady groundwater gradient. Slow but accurate enough for what we're doing. And um it's uh we we included the um the map units for the soils. Um it's a um you know it's true to form a nice nice silt lo but it does uh allow the

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groundwater to move through it and and the hydro soils within 12 inches of grade give us a nice delineation line. So I think that will hold. Um, and again, I think the other changes were pretty administrative. Just get rid of the uh the boardwalk, show some no mess,

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no no fescue. And any other thing I missed, I'd be glad to address. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Anybody have questions or comments? Just thank you for the extra effort.

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It's a little above my grade in a sense since my last soils course. So when wetlands weren't really thought of as worth worrying about too much. >> Anybody

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comments? >> No, nobody else. >> So I just wanted to again uh I I know there were some indications that there was some fertilizer use in the lawn. So, just to kind of as a reminder, um, besides typical special conditions that that we'd

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recommend, uh, just a reminder that the within the 35 foot buffer, there's no lawn grasses allowed, no landscaping, no fertilizer, no pesticides, no irrigation except temporary irrigation. And then within the 50 and within riverfront areas, there's no fertilizers,

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pesticides, or irrigation. So just to make those clear on the record, but no other comments from me. >> Also, no mowing. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. So no lawn grass in the 35. So no, not even all Cape Cod lawn.

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>> Okay. So we hear a motion to accept with those special Oh, I'm sorry. There's nobody in the audience, but is anybody online who have any questions or comments? Having seen none, now I'll entertain a motion to accept with special

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conditions. Jack >> second all in favor. >> Opposed. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Very good. >> And that's um even if you've got a

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grandfathered lawn there, Joe, you you try not to let them mow it anymore. Is that the idea? Well, I think typically if you've got lawn there and it's it's grandfathered in, we're not going to say anything. But when there's there's work happening in the area, we try to get it back to fit in the regulations as they

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stand. So, if there um I think that was more just as a reminder for the new area underneath where the the boardwalk was and and those bordering areas. >> Okay, that sounds reasonable. Thank you. And if there's ever any question, you can that they're they can contact us and

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we'll be happy to help them out. >> Sounds good. And temporary irrigation to get all the plantings is fine. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. Our next one is SC83-2532 Cape Cod Engineer Cape Town Cape

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Engineering for Robert Griffin Zero Great Island Road after the fact filing for replacement stairs and boardwalk on coastal dune and land subject to coastal storm flow. Um, before we hear from you, I just want to make the comment that this is another

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after the fact filing on Great Island, not not our first. We'd like to remind people on Great Island that it shouldn't be an after the fact. It should be the before the fact, I guess I'd call it. if you could tell your your people to

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remind them that this is at least the third or fourth time I've been on the count on the commission that we've had this issue. Okay. Now, >> can I ask Can I add to that, please? >> Sure. I I just I kind of don't understand why people in this area who

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typically have projects done that require um appropriate permitting would even think about doing something kind of after the you know before they get permit. Do you have any any insight into that? >> Well um Dan Oil from Downkeep

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Engineering. So, um ju just to get into that, this is um I I think the problem with it is it's it's kind of a no man's land there where this is a thousands of feet of beach and there's one little access stair that's been there since the 70s or earlier and um I I guess the

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association as a whole, you would have thought they would have thought of it, but they just replaced it in kind. you know, the the boards were falling down and it was a trip hazard. So, it may have been a safety issue and or they just didn't think. But, um that's uh that's how it happened. I think if it was on somebody's personal property,

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there would have been some more personal responsibility and and people probably would have, you know, thought, gee, should I really do this? But where it was a, you know, I wouldn't say public, but it's a it's a it's a um it's for the whole area to use and it's just one little boardwalk that was already it's

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already been there for many years. The photograph of it is is here. You know, I know Joe had some in there, but there it is back in 19. Um, it's that's the same basic stair a little bit higher because the dune I think is growing a little

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bit. But, you know, I I I I don't I'm not going to make excuses for them. Shame on them. But uh they approached us after the fact after uh Joe had given the citation and and I don't really have great knowledge on it, but they certainly should have known better. And we'll I'll remind them to the extent

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that I can that, you know, don't do this again. Yeah, just I don't want to put you on the spot, but I I personally think that sometimes maybe it's easier to build it and then and then go for it after the fact kind of a um permit rather than to start at square one and

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and um do the permitting in the proper way. Um maybe the folks are they're not afraid of any kind of fine and not afraid of any kind of rep repercussions in terms of this. And as as um David said, you know, this isn't the first

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time out there that they've uh they've kind of flaunted the rule. So yeah, if you can communicate that to them, that would be appreciated. >> Yeah, I'll do that. >> I believe we have open permits on this parcel, so they know that this parcel needs

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permitting. Um, I also have just sorry not to belabor the point, but uh since it was a I believe a violation letter that went out, it it's been a year since that went out. It and we're only now just getting the after the fact filing.

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That's a very long time uh to deal with a a violation issue. Um so I would have expected to see it with a little more haste. Yeah, it was the first job, one of the first jobs we set up this year. Um,

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we're very busy. Um, you know, since co is everything's just jammed up. But, um, I'm sure we're we're a a portion of that. Um, but, um, you know, we we apologize for sure that, uh, we'll try and make sure that they much more aware

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in the future. And again, it it may have been a thought that this is, you know, just a little set of beach stairs. It's always been there and just a simple replacement, but they should know anything in your jurisdiction needs to come to you. And >> but again, not to bellay the point, this isn't the first time we've had issues

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with things that that aren't uh specific to a lot a lot or a house. It's we've had rocks put down there that weren't supposed to be done. We had people working on the wooden

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bridge without prior permission. So it is a it is an issue. So without any further ado, why don't you present your

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Sure. Um so um again Dan Ojela from Down Cape Engineering. Um this is a um a replacement for an existing boardwalk um that has has been there for many years. Um we're looking at um as I showed in

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the photograph. Um there's a kind of a sandy parking area at the beginning beginning of a long road. This is the uh sand spit type road um on the east faces east on on Nucket Sound and it's at the

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very top of you know many I'd say a couple several thousand foot long parcel. It's called lot 54 on the land court plan and um it's a um um a contractor was hired to to just kind

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of p bring down the stairs and put them back. uh because the boards were old and failing and you know nails and and and just wasn't a safe situation. So they did that and it was noticed that that was done and and uh uh we'll we'll

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certainly let them know that um you know not to do that again. They did get the invoice for doubling the fines for an after the fact or the filing fees. So that's certainly um a notification there. um this um the narrative goes

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through with some specivity the the performance standards um for the um the filing. So I'll just touch on that. It's important to to look at um the resource areas and and how we're trying to

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protect them. Again, the the overall arching thing here is that uh foot traffic over a dune isn't necessarily the best thing. So to get them on especially a raised set of stairs is generally a good thing. Uh keeps the um

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American beach grass they have ryomes that are easily damaged by your feet and uh and can stop the growth. So to get people up and over is is generally an acceptable idea. Um it's um VE13. So

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this is vulnerable to large impact wave events. Um the stairs, you know, would likely, no matter how you build them, be destroyed in a in a in a big event. Um but uh because they necessarily have to go down, you know,

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well below the flood elevation because that's where the ground is. You have to, you know, start at the ground and go up and down. So it spans a coastal dune access from the road to the beach. Um it isn't open to the public. You have to go through the gate house. So it's just for the the people that are on the other

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side, south side of that uh that gate. Um the narrative states the existing stairs were in need of repairs and became unsafe and uh they were constructed the same general footprint as the existing set. So again, it's just it's rebuilding what was there. Certainly um if someone

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were to just put these in in a coastal doom without being a replacement, it would be a much more finable and important event for sure. Um because that would be highly illegal. A filing with N Hesper

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has been done. I don't think we heard back from N Hespro. So we may want to continue till we've heard from them. But um again it's uh so the performance standards were in a coastal dune and a velocity zone. Uh land subject to

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coastal storm flow is is the V zone. So to go um uh through those quickly um Adune is presumed significant uh to storm prevention and flood control. I don't think we would ever be able to argue this one isn't. It does protect kind of acts as a barrier for for some

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of the lands behind and the wetlands behind to the west. Um, what you don't want to do is take away the ability of the waves to, you know, remove some of that sand from the dune. And luckily, this isn't like a big home or footprint that's going to be

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impressive and and stop any real action of of waves or or sand. and the stairway landing is a foot or two above a grade and the flood zone is uh just above the VE13 zone. Um so you've got a base flood that's where the water is and then

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you've got the waves would come up to 13 and the deck is at I believe 14. Um it was Joe did ask us to do a profile which we tried to get right in. So you can see there the main deck up there is above the Vzone.

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Hopefully, we'll never get a storm like that in our lifetimes, but you know, it is modeled that it could be at 13. Um, in the event of uh wave action, the waters would be able to move around and through it. And again, it's this isn't a

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big imposing structure that's going to be a hazard. And there's no homes nearby. So, um to the extent that it was splintered, I don't think it would make too much difference in the in the overall um view of an a storm event of

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that size, uh, the waters would be able to move around and through it. Again, the the stairways would likely be destroyed, the steps down below because that's the nature of it. But, um, I don't think there's much we can do about that except, you know, some kind of a crazy

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steel design. Disturbing vegetative cover. We're destabilizing the dune. Again, it we're replacing an existing set and it was the same footprint. Um the stairs provide a clear path for pedestrians so they don't disturb the additional vegetation as I'd mentioned.

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Um and the adverse possession number C is uh you shouldn't cause removal of the dune which would increase potential for storm damage. So luckily this is built up over it. No removal can't interfere with the movement of the dune. Again we've got open risers. You've got a I

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believe they're open risers, but it's just a lightly built structure and it's above so the natural sand can can move under it. Um can't cause the removal of sand and uh that's again it's a lightweight structure that didn't remove any sand interfering with bird nesting

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habitat. Um it does lie within priority habitat. Um so we've filed with the natural heritage program for their review. Um the work is done. So, um, to the extent that there are time restrictions, they shouldn't apply, but I'd certainly recommend we listen to

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anything that they have to say and incorporate it. So, I'd be glad to take a short continuance until they can finish their review. They had um until 5:24 to respond, so it might be a little bit before we hear

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from them. They're busy as well. Uh, land subject to coastal storm flow. Again, we've got a full-on VE13 through this area. Rollers coming through. The upper landing is above that. Uh, and it's on an open pile type framing system. So, I would hope that it would

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survive. You know, whether it would or not, a full full 100red-year event, I I don't know. But again, it's one little 4ft strip on thousands of feet of beach. And it's a fairly dimminimous and it is replacing, you know, an existing stairway.

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So, um, that's what we have. And again, I I do apologize. There's some some photographs in there that show, you know, sort of the dimminimous nature. Open risers. Um, not much to it. It's elevated up a little bit. And, you know, I'd say the only thing you could do

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would be elevate it much more, but then you've got aesthetic values. You know, this is, you know, tucked down among the cedars and it's it's pretty benign looking. And, uh, for the additional benefit where you'd have more more risers and more structure footprint

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probably isn't there. Um an older nice sunset photograph of the old boardwalk just for the file. So um that's what I have for presentation. Again, I sincerely apologize you weren't notified prior to the work and we'll reprimand them and and remind them that uh you're

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getting a little tired of after the fact filings. So be glad to answer any questions. >> Okay. Um, when you take out a structure like this, new regulations apply. Is that true? >> Well, um, I

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>> Yes or no? Is it yes or no? >> I think replacements are generally given some um leeway over over um >> well, we're dealing with it right now. And I want to you have

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>> as yeah if it's replacement in the same footprint generally we approve them. The the only I think standard that would have applied is you know nothing within the the 35 and uh but again it's it's mostly replacing

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but since you brought it up it is very slightly larger than the previous stairs by maybe a foot or two that the landing on the top is a little bit longer. So, you know, had it been brought to us prior to building, that might have been something that we had asked to to remove. But,

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>> well, what what I think that the rule is pretty pretty obvious. It says new rules apply no matter what we've done. Is it that not true?

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>> Yes. >> Yeah. I mean we are able to give a variance and that's why >> well and if they had come here before >> I know what you're saying >> and this is right now the new rules are

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four feet wide and this is six feet. Is that not true? >> Um there there's a portion of it that's wider but it doesn't look like it's six feet to me does it Joe? I could scale it but >> look to me when we were at >> the measurements on there.

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I could I could check a scale on it, >> but more importantly, I'd like to see a cross-section showing how high it is above the dunes all the way along. >> Maybe you have one. I don't. Yeah, we do. >> No, that's not what I'm talking about.

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I'm talking about the entire length of the structure. >> Sure. So, um, this stairway section does does show the existing grade and and and where it is. So, it's fairly close to grade coming up the backside and you're a foot or two depending on where you

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measure uh through that flat structure and then it comes back down to grade. >> Well, so you think that it's more than two feet except for maybe a couple places or what? >> Um, you know, I it's just what it is. The the middle is probably a foot. It's two feet on on probably over half of it.

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Um, but then there's no question these open risers are pretty close to grade. Um on on the front side you can see um it's pretty close to grade. >> Okay. >> That's the back side and they've always been there. >> Did Did they replace the uh pilings

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entirely? >> It looks that way. Just put new 4x4s in. >> Do they launch kayaks off there or is that pretty much just people walking out? >> You know whether it's water dependent

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use. I mean, it's certainly access to navigable waters, but it's not, you know, it's not a boat house or a dock, but it's it's certainly a way to water. >> But they don't have structures or anything out there or kayak.

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>> I I don't think they store kayaks on that, but u I don't know. >> We would have noted that if there were kayaks stored inappropriately while we were looking. >> Well, this is not summer, though. >> Well, but we've been there before. We haven't seen this was in August and there's none.

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>> Okay. >> So, there are structures out there they're taking down. Are they going to replace them? >> No. What was there was uh underneath and you know they they removed it and put this new one down. >> No, I'm talking about all the other little tiny things, little sheds and

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other things. There's five or six. >> No, those are all have been there for for many years. >> Well, they said they're taking them out and I'd like to know if they're putting them back. Uh, did I say that? >> No, no, they settled on there. >> Oh, uh,

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it was a previous ex existing gate house, I guess. Is that what they mean? >> That's still there. >> Previous existing piling, previous existing no parking sign. So, I guess it's like a drop off area more than I I can't really state that. I I if

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you've talked to them, it's it's new new to me. um >> on the plan, but there's a roadway that goes out, you know, to the south and is actively used. And uh I'm not not exactly sure what those little pertinances are. >> I don't know why they say previous

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existing gate house because I'm 90% sure that gate house is still there. >> Well, what we're trying to say is that yeah, it's in 19 it was there. It's there. Um I think what we were trying to emphasize is that isn't new new to science, you know. It's It's been there

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existing. I guess we could just say existing. >> Yeah, because previously existing sounds to me like it's been taken out. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, it's complicated when we're working on a set of stairs that was there and isn't there. And so, we're just trying to somehow use the language

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to describe it as being something that was already existing. And don't blame us. >> All you wanted to say? >> Yeah. I just have a question. I see it. This this plan was created. It's dated April 1st, 2026. Do you know when the structure was built?

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>> Um, >> when did they actually >> No, but you got it on the photos as well. >> We first noticed it almost exactly a year ago. I think it was April last year. >> And then was it brought to the attention of the owners a year ago?

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>> Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, it was pretty soon after we noticed it. It's great island Associates and the the filing was Robert Griffin is the current president of that association and he asked us what for a proposal to to permit it because of the letter and that's how we got involved.

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>> Yeah. But it was like a year after they were notified of it. >> Oh no. And we we've been on this for months now. Um I could you know I get into it too much but we sent him a proposal. >> It was one of the first jobs we set up this year.

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>> Let me ask a question then. So, you sent them a proposal. In your in your proposal, um I guess you don't have any reminders of the permitting um uh requirements. >> Um so, our proposal was September 10th

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of 25. Um and uh we he had been asked to permit the beach deers and we understood that the stairs have already been constructed. So, he knew he was in trouble. He had already got the letter when he contacted us. So, I didn't I didn't rub his nose in it, but um you

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know, we could tell this the context of this is that we're permitting something that he's in trouble for. >> It was already built at that point. >> Yeah. >> You know, the thing is I I'll you know, try to restrain myself, but very often when these folks come in about projects,

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we're very complimentary of all the work that they do, even if it's after the fact. You know, they're protecting a very incredible piece of property and land and uh ecosystem and the whole deal. And it it's just hard to understand why this would occur in this

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fashion. And um I don't know if we could do much about it other than just complain that they didn't follow the the we could find them. Well, I think they should be fine. But that's part of my point. Do they really care about the fine? You know, do they really care

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about the fine? It's what, 300 bucks? >> Come on. You know, but it is it is a message. It's a message. we can get to a point where in the future we for this particular group find them per

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day I'm right >> well what would happen just a question >> violations >> yeah point of order I guess it would be >> repeat offenders as well >> Mr. chairman, I guess a point of order or something like what happens if if it just so happens that this commission

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voted no tonight on this thing. What would happen then? >> H that's a great question. Um >> we probably have to come back with a with a new plan. Yeah, >> they take it down and come back with new

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plan and you know, so I you know if this was a to me, this is my opinion, if this was a stairway that would never existed and they did this, >> I like we did with the previous um

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previous person when we made them take the boardwalk down. I would uh say, "Yeah, let make them take it down." But it I don't think we want to. I personally think that's going beyond the punishment. But I have no trouble with a $300 fine. >> Even though I mean, it's been pointed

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out it's a little bit bigger than we probably would have >> about a foot bigger. >> A foot bigger. And >> that could be again, not knowing how it was built or anything, that could be just the way the dune changed over the time

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>> from previous one. But Okay, thank you for that information >> your point and I I think within our I would suggest to the to the commission that within our um our motion that we do do a $300 fine but I know what you're

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saying Paul that's pitments to them >> I like to make a point on the access um the state law one of the from centuries is

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leads off with public. This is for public to get access to the ocean. >> Now, that's mostly talking about boats and docks and things, but this is I I would never vote against uh them, you

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know, being a to put something in. I mean, I'd always vote for them to be able to build something. And I do think that we, you know, maybe fine would be fine, but um there are little things

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here that that everything we've said are really important. And one of a little thing that I found is that there's supposed to be for these kind of structures uh state building code. I don't know what that means or what is

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true, but that there's things here that um aren't being addressed and we really don't have time to do that right tonight obviously or even within this this particular project. But I think

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that we people need to be careful when they come to us and cover everything that there is. >> State building code means meaning that there has to be certain type of wood or >> no where that yes I think just like any

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building code you'd have to look at it and find out what >> and um >> and maybe so antique they don't do it I don't know >> that prompts a question in my mind in terms of did this require the town

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building department to go out there and check it out and permit it >> yeah you'd have to go to the >> I I could check the record and see if it was I I I don't know that it was because it would have triggered us automatically. >> Well, that's what I was wondering. Yeah, >> but I don't as being a structure. I

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there I'm not super familiar with the regulations. So, I >> maybe it's something we could look into, you know, because I it would be logical to me that if the town went out there and they realized it didn't have a permit from the conservation commission, they would say we can't build this right now. I agree with Jack. They should have

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the right to build what they want to build legally on their property. There's no question about that. But when they they flaunt the regulations the way they do and don't have any regard, I guess, for our efforts, then that's that's a little disturbing. I agree. So, what I'd like to do is make a motion

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to continue uh but put in the motion the $300 fine and uh continue to May 21st. >> Yeah, it I'm around. So, that would be fine with me. Well, actually uh the next

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one because they have until the 25th. um to respond and we'll probably be right back here spinning our wheels. So, we want to wait till June. I would think that would be appropriate. And >> June 4th is >> June 4th. June 4th. >> If I could uh just make a comment. Um,

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looking at this photo from 2019, um, it seems like there was a bit more vegetation along that >> eastern edge um that was most likely disturbed during the replacement part port

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>> replacement construction of this structure. Um, so I would like to see some uh >> mitigation >> mitigation. Yeah, replacement plantings to restore that area back. >> Yeah, I was looking for it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I was

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>> I was running out of breath. I didn't get to that >> and it was very windy. >> Is it photo? >> Is it this photo you're talking about? >> Uh, right. >> I do see the lower right um next to the

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stairs. There's kind of a bald spot there. >> Every time I back out, it backs all the way up. So right there on the east side to the right of the lower stairs. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> Right in there. But generally that whole

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side has lost vegetation um and a little bit on the other side. So just uh include some plantings either side of the um the structure >> would be appreciated. >> Also sounds reasonable.

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>> I'd like to have them show mean high water. Yeah, you show the you show mean, but you don't show mean and high. >> Oh, um, okay. I think we might have picked that up on the revised plan, but I'm not sure this one. >> Oh, is it? >> Yeah.

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>> So, looks like we caught that. Okay, great. >> Yeah, sounds good. and and just, you know, he seems like he was he was actually fairly doing pretty well because it was in late August, so not too long after your letter, he was

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trying to get people to do it and and we um then contracted him in September and have taken it till we had it a month, well, a few weeks ago now, but that's that's kind of our our our pace these days. If I could just provide a little bit of context for the commission who

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doesn't always see what I'm doing behind the scenes. Uh, you know, our our goal with any violation or enforcement is is first of all compliance. So that's why we didn't issue a fine right off the bat. We wanted to try to get them to comply and and permit the the structure.

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And uh and we checked in with them a couple of times and saw that they were they were working on it slowly but surely. So uh that's why there was not already a fine issued. But I do think if you think it's appropriate to find them. I I'm totally fine with that. Um I do see

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the the value in having, you know, a structure to walk over rather than having the dunes. So, um I do think it is it is serving a purpose. But, uh >> long as people use this structure rather than further down the road go over the dunes. >> Yes. Yes, absolutely. But I do think uh

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yeah, asking for a little bit of filling in some mitigation. >> Okay. I didn't Are you have anything to add to what we've talked about? >> No, that was basically it. >> Anybody in the audience? Anybody online? See anybody's hand raised? So, can I

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hear a motion to continue to June 4th with a new plan with what we talked about and a $300 fine? I'll move I'll move that. >> All right. I'll second it. >> Okay. All in favor? I

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>> opposed. >> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate your time very much. Thank you. I'll stick around for some of these COC's just in case there's a question, but sounds like we've kind of smoothed it out with Mark, but uh just in case I've got a stack of them in case there's any questions. Thank you. >> What was the continued to

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>> the fourth >> fourth of fourth? >> Okay. So the next one is also going to be continued is SE832531 BSE group for Steven Catz 703 Route 28 proposed demolition of abandoned retail

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store replacement with three residential buildings and land subject to coastal storm flowage riverfront area and buffer zone to a coastal bank. I don't think there's anybody here representing that group, which is too bad because I really wanted to take them to task about how messy and

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what they need to do to clean up that area. And maybe that's something when you talked to um BSC group, you might say they should start right away. >> That Yeah, we'll look into that. But when when uh we passed along the comments, I I communicated that, you

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know, the site was not really in a acceptable condition and I did communicate with the health department to see if there was anything they wanted to do regarding, you know, like potentially hazardous materials and trash that were stored outside. So, >> I mean, I hate to think it would be

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stuff underneath the ground like oil seeping in there. Yeah, it's it was all on pavement and it was all at least 50 ft from the water, but >> yeah. Uh >> yes, that >> potential they're going to um keep the

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what do you call it the septic uh field and just in the bury it essentially the rest of it the tanks they're going to take away. But u I before any of that I'd like to see some drills drilling for hazardous waste identification.

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>> I agree with you and um you know they have abandoned cars there that should that I think are illegal. You can see them from the road and I think if I remember our not our commission but I think the town's bylaws don't allow abandoned cars. Well, it also sounded

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like they were constructing, building things, sawing metal material >> and that can accumulate for many years and who knows what. >> Right. There has to be a real study of that site,

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>> right? Well, anyway, we're going to continue to which date? >> I believe they wanted the 21st. >> Okay. To May 21st. Can I hear a motion to continue to May 21st? So moved. >> Second. >> Second, >> Jack. All in favor? >> I.

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>> Thank you. >> All right. Now we're into COC's. Wait a minute. Do I have to sign anything? I don't think so. >> 703 now. >> Um, okay. I'll put this here.

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>> That's heavy. Okay. >> That's the letter of continuence. Yeah, that should be the CS. >> Wait a minute. This is for >> 703. I don't see 703. I don't think you gave me the uh >> I didn't give you the full

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>> Okay. So, we'll just leave that there. >> You'll take care of that later. Okay. Got it. All right. The next is uh COC for SE 8375 BSSE group for Steven

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Catz 73 Route 28. Do you have anything to talk about? >> This is also they'll continue. >> Do we have to vote? We vote to continue that. >> Yeah, might as well. >> Okay. >> I hear a motion to continue that COC to

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May 21st. Second. >> No, sorry. Sorry. >> Um, all in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next one is SE832097 Shorefront Consulting for Caroline Koser

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Kosher 10 Kerange Road. And do you want to talk about that first? >> Perfect timing. >> He's laughing already. >> Good. >> Ah, hello everyone. you start we usually do we used do our

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COC's with uh the agent or the administrator. So >> so this uh project was originally the uh reconstruction of a permitted licensed bulkhead and maintenance dredging to go along with that. Um, in our review of the property, we found some uh there's

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an unpermitted walk that leads from the patio to the uh I think it's the top of the dock. And um the original order conditions had ongoing conditions for uh a planted

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buffer, but the commission afterwards approved a gravel buffer. So, uh, that kind of negated that, but there is still the special condition 24, uh, that is ongoing that any replacement of this bulkhead should be in the same

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footprint except on the furthest west portion. Um, and yeah, that's about all I have. If uh, you want to take it from there, Mark. >> So, the work was done. >> Yeah, the bulkhead is is built the um, and reconstructed. It's just the

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additional work and the change from the original order to the gravel buffer. >> Anybody have any questions before we want to hear from Mark first? >> Um I just you know I just I need a clarification. If some of this um for

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example the unpermitted walk is included, do these kinds of things that were either added or or unpermitted, do they um do they fall in another category of um of regulations or process because

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they don't apply, do they the items of this the the um the requirements of the COC? >> Right. So yeah, >> because they're not included in the COC, your options are to either ask them to remove it before you issue the COC um

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permit it after the fact, which is pretty commonly what we do, or you can ignore it and and just let it slide, which is what happened in the past a lot and how some things kind of get de facto approved uh because they wind up on plans and then we have to say that

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they're pre-existing. So, um, that's for you guys to discuss whether you're okay with leaving it, whether you want mitigation specifically for that, but this is where Mark can maybe fill in some of the blanks of what the plan is for the future of this site because our other

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option would be to handle it under an upcoming notice of intent. >> That's precisely the problem. It kind of relates to the last issue here. And I even think of future commissions, you know, if things like this are um

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authorized in a COC process and some of these things that were added were ignored. Again, it's going to be problematic for future groups to determine, well, what was done, what should have been done, what wasn't permitted, all that type of thing. So at this particular juncture, isn't it

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better to um maybe there's something that can be approved under a COC, but these other things either need to be removed or another application has to be placed for an after the-act filing or something like that because I don't want to

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necessarily vote I for a COC when things exist in it that shouldn't have been there in the first place. That make sense? >> Yeah. No, absolutely. And that's that's within your right to not approve the COC because the work doesn't match what was approved. So

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>> continue till after the order. >> Yeah, sure. >> This one This one is just a CLC. >> Yeah. Yeah, we haven't. We have not received any notice of intent for this one, right? That's the one that we >> Is there a plan to do work on the bulkhead here? >> No, everything's done. >> This is just the

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>> Everything's done. >> But when did they put in the unpermitted walk? near as I can tell from Google Earth only a year less than a year after the bulkhead almost immediately after the bulkhead was put in and I think the emails regarding well Mark Burgess Shore

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for consulting um this was my project back way back in the day and I've been trying to close it out for a year and I just now two years and I now just finally got to it um the we don't we can look at the date of the email for the

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gravel buffer it there's And the reason I say that is because if that's after um if that's after the walkway was put in from Google Earth. It looks like the walkway was put in just within a year after the bokeh was done.

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>> And when was that? >> The email about the the buffer was from May 2018. Yeah, that kind of lines up with what I think you're >> and it I said in my letter here that the uh it appears that the walker was installed in October of 2018 and the the

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work was completed in 2018 and that's that's when I leave. You know, I do my my ongoing inspections and check the height of the bulkhead while they're building it and all that. And when it's all done, you know, I'm out of there and then I don't know what they do afterwards sometimes or most of the time. Um, so I'm curious as to whether

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what's the date on that on her email? >> May. >> Yeah, May of >> Okay. And I'm and Google Earth jumped. So I'm saying October. Anyway, maybe about the same time. I was wondering whether whether Kelly saw that and then didn't

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didn't bother to do anything about it. And the reason I say that is because if you've been to the site, there's some additional plantings over by the flag pole. And I they were put there for a reason, but I don't I can't figure and remember why, but they aren't they

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weren't shown as part of any mitigation plan or anything, but there are extra plants there. And I I took care to take a picture to show you. Um there was an email or something about they thought that the western area had the the lawn had encroached beyond the flag pole, but

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that's not the case because the the vegetation is well landward of the flag pole. is if you if you look back through uh the program we have is near map it has photos every six months. So um uh back

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around 2018 there was a large portion of the the native vegetation in the 12 curge was cut down and turned into lawn basically and then by 2020 it looks like it had been replanted and I couldn't find a record of any conversation between cons conservation and the

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homeowners. Me neither. >> But it does look like, you know, uh it grew in pretty well actually. So it's not >> an existing, you know, violation or anything like that. But I would not count any of that as mitigation for the

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walkway because it seemed to be just restoring it to the way it was prior to 2018 when when the lawn was cut. So the basic thing we're really talking about is whether we should uh give permit the COC or make them take the walkway out. That's what it comes down to.

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>> Yes. >> Permit or permit the walkway by some other >> Yeah. But we would Yeah. >> We have some other means, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Um the only point I would make about the walkway, I know these things seem to happen all the time for some reason and

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we can't I can't control everything and all of that, but it is very minor. So you can see that the walkway is quite pvious. You've got grass and things growing up in between. It does replace turf lawn. So I don't know if that's a bonus at all that to consider. Um I

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certainly see its purpose. It's minimal. But question is what do we do about it? So um and I I'm happy to discuss options there. >> That seems to be the discussion always. You know I know >> it's minimal. Okay. It's minimal but it's unpermitted. And right

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>> the next thing maybe would be a little bit larger in terms of oh but it's only a little bit bigger than the last one you know and on and on you go. You create we create this whole um uh situation where judgments have to be made about whether this is a should be

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the COC is fine. I mean I I'm I'm assuming that you did your work and you got paid and that this doesn't stop any of that process. So you're in I don't know what the circumstances is for you to come and defend the people but they put the darn thing in and they

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>> needed to go through a step a process and they didn't. So now I think it's best to remind people by our decisions that you can't do that. >> You know it's minimal. You can you know you folks can make a lot of oh it's not

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going to hurt anything. It's this and that and the other. You could be perfectly right but it's not the process that should be followed. I totally agree in in principle it's wrong. I I understand and we all go through this in my opinion too many times but >> I agree with that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

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>> It's not fun. It's not fun for us either. >> It can't be. >> No, it can't be. >> At any rate, so I the the question is what would you like to do about it? We if you wanted mitigation for it that could actually be handled in a

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violation. and I would then I wouldn't have to file a notice because that will take six months for me to get around to it again. >> I'd like to see a little bit lease mitigation. >> Think mitigation would be good. >> Yeah. >> Um I was going to suggest

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um since I know it's relatively minor, but to Mark's point, it is pvious and most likely would be in the way that it was that we would have permitted it. um minus the mitigation. Um so I would be

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okay and this is just my my opinion but would be okay approving the COC um but requesting an after the fact for the um the walkway and I would be okay if that was handled

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under an administrative review. I like that >> and it's on record and certainly anything that happens after this, you know, drop a SWAT team. It's, you know, >> can you please remind them that should be fertilizing?

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>> Yeah. Yeah. the the same fertiliz Oh, I don't know if you were here when I read them earlier, but just as a reminder, uh >> no Cape Cod lawns landscaping fertilizer, pesticide, or irrigation within our our 35 foot buffers and over mulch and uh within the 50 to 35,

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there's still no fertilizer, pesticide, or irrigation. So, it's a nice healthy green looking lawn. And so, we just wanted to now those are the those are the new regulations. So, do they apply to an older order >> for the lawn? It would because there's

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still, as I was trying to say earlier, if you tore up that lawn, uh, >> then you'd put it back. >> You wouldn't want any lawn back there at all. >> Correct. >> As as it exists, adding more fertilizer and adding more pesticide would is continuing to add chemicals and add, you

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know, potentially degradating the the the environment there. So you can keep the lawn because that that's already approved, but you still shouldn't be adding any new fertilizers or pesticides, things of that nature. >> So that's great. >> That would should be a letter sent to them. Then >> you can do that.

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>> I would >> happy to. That's great. >> Well, if I could just add one thing, I think I um said this also to to Dan, and I don't mean to put you guys on the spot in terms of responsibility here, but you do work for people, right? >> And you do a great job, and it looks

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great and the whole deal, and you I know you must work very hard to understand all of the regulations and all the processes. Do you ever at the end of it or at some juncture in the in the process say, "And by the way, we're going to do this as we plan and if you

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want to add anything else to it, here's some information about what you might have to do in order to accomplish that, like put a walkway in, for example." Again, I I I don't I I hope it's not inappropriate to make a suggestion like that, but it might be helpful to us and you in the future.

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>> It happens all the time. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. >> During the process, they'll say, "Oh, can I do this?" And I'm like, "Well, that's going to change things." >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, my job as a consultant is to give them the information to make a decision. And I also tell them the consequences of those decisions

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>> and then they choose to ignore it. >> Then they choose whatever they want to do. And then then we're back here in front of you. >> Okay. >> On some of on some of them. But yeah, my job I feel my job and I I walk them through the resource areas when I first consult with them

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>> and say, "Okay, if you're going to be in front of the commission, don't do this here. Don't do this here." You know, actually, if I see some brush somewhere it's not supposed to be, I'm like, "Clean that up." Mhm. >> You know, all this is part of upfront to make them have them understand because a lot of times when they come to us, they

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have no idea that what the regs are or what they could do and what they can't do. >> Yeah. >> So, I feel my job as a consultant is to advise them of that early in the process, right in the beginning. >> Thank you for doing that. >> Sure. >> Because this is a co COC, we don't look

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for any comments from anybody else. So, we need to move ahead to uh see if I get this right. Accept a COC. >> We'll be issuing a COC. >> We'll issue a COC and

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>> pending uh an admin review for the walkway. Is that >> Yeah. And and mitigation. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that we'll put on. Absolutely. >> Is it pending or is that a separate? Well, I thought we were going to write a violation for the walkway and >> that was it. That was one of the

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suggestions was we could if we issue an enforcement order, we could make one of the requirements of the enforcement order to add mitigation or something like that. The because it is relatively minor and there and it is pretty permeable. There's grass growing through

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it. If you're comfortable with an admin review, I can require mitigation admin review, but I'm >> Yes, >> that's fine. the >> and the admin would so Britney would go and take a look at the property and would she or you maybe suggest where

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this mitigation should >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> And then if they don't like that they have to come before the commission. >> Yes. Exactly. And that that's exactly what I would suggest is if they don't like where we tell them we would say okay then you have to file at least an RDA and come in front of the commission and discuss with them.

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>> Okay. >> That's fair. Yeah, if they if they completely didn't comply, then yes, we could start issuing funds. >> It shouldn't take them a year to do this, right? >> Shouldn't >> Well, that would be me. So, it it's under my workload, unfortunately. But,

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but these are things I I call I usually like squeeze them in between other things. And >> I'll be I have three more filings I filed today and I've got three more after that and then I've done in Yarmouth for quite a while. So, I'll be around for a while to address these things.

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Thank you. So >> if it can be done in a timely manner, I I know ARs are pretty minor as far as things go, but late at night when it's too late to start something else, I do stuff like that. >> Great. >> And and that's also the purpose of doing

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the COC pending the admin review because they're not going to get their COC until they submit an admin. >> Okay. So >> that that keeps them a little bit more timely, but I've also seen COC's linger and not get issued. So, um, do I hear a motion?

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>> Yeah. >> Move that we issue the COC pending an admin review for the unpermitted walkway. >> Second. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> So, I should sign this. >> Okay. Next one. Actually, am I right

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that we can do the next two together? >> Uh, yes, we can. >> So, we do the next two together. SE83 2017. That's where that's No, that's perfect. uh 2017 downcape engineering for John

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Fidel 166 Blue Rock Road and 20 I'm sorry SC 832107 downcape engineering for John Fidel 166 Blue Rock Road. Um want to say anything?

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>> Yeah. So um I just grabbed the right notes here. So for 2017 was uh of the garage edition. That's right. And that work was completed. Um

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no real deviations that we noted. Uh and the only thing in our o my overall site review was that there was a a float located on the bank visible from near map but uh Mark provided photos yesterday that that it was cleaned up

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and pulled it out and it's right now sitting I think right next to the garage waiting to be discarded where I put it. >> Yeah. So that was that was the only thing holding that up but he's already complied with that. Uh 21107 was a proposed am I looking at the right

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one? Yes. Ex uh replication of the stairway and removal replacement of uh retaining structures and coastal bank stabilization with quar logs and that work never started. So that one okay to issue as well. >> Okay. So I hear a motion to accept uh both COC's

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issue both COC's. Yes. Bradford Bird >> I >> Great. >> And I have to sign both of these, right? >> Yes, there should be two. Yeah, the same. >> Um, yeah, they're different numbers. >> They're very similar numbers.

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>> They look the same. >> All right, moving right along. The next one is SC8376 Downcape Engineering for Anthony Compana 14 Compass Drive. Um Joe, >> yes. So it's a going to be a recurring

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theme from here on out. Uh this was a COC for a swimming pool in the backyard at the property. Uh the pool was built pretty much exactly as it shows on the plan, but then at some point there was a

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uh a deck added in the back and um the decking around the pool was expanded at some point also. So there's just a couple of areas of unpermitted work need to deal with. Let me see if I can find my pictures easily.

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Here we go. So, yeah, it looked like um just this tiny little sliver when they they changed the the decking from wood to composite, I believe, uh and added this little triangle at the top. So, only a minor little addition there. But this patio down on the lower left side

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is basically right on top of the bank there. And there's no permit for that either. So, uh, again, it'll be up to you whether we want to, um, have them try to permit these these structures. This one

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did receive a notice of intent, uh, just yesterday or the day before for rebuilding the uh, the bulkhead here because it's failing. So, uh, they will be attempting to uh, permit those structures under that notice of intent.

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I don't think it was hand it was concluded yet though, right? Is that Am I getting that right? >> No, no, we um I Yes. So, I filed a notice of intent for this yesterday with Joe to to do other work on the site. So, that notice of intent can cover anything

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else that we need to do. The plan shows the deck and it shows the patio. So, we already have that on the plan, >> the new plan >> on the one that was filed. Yes. >> So, so it's on a plan. We can deal with it. Um, my suggestion of course is to is to go ahead and issue the COC knowing

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that we can deal with all of this on the notice of intent that's in front of Joe right now. I owe him a little bit more information. So, you won't see it until June 4th, I think. But, >> other than that, and then Joe, could you send me that picture so I can mark those areas on the on the on the revised plan?

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>> That would be awesome. >> So, just so I'm understand the bottom left hand corner of the that's a patio. >> That's a patio. >> Patio and that's certainly within 35 ft of the >> Let me see if I have the You can get an

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asp. But I have the new plan that you just sent me. So you haven't reviewed this yet, but just for illustrative purposes, we can see on the right hand side it's all zoomed in for you. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's the patio.

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There's a little bit of salt marsh right here. >> Yeah. >> And the the wall I Yeah, >> that's an existing wall. Or is that a new >> That that is existing, but they Yeah, but they are going to rebuild it, >> right? >> But we'll cover that with that. >> We'll get to that later. >> Yeah.

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But yeah, this is the 35 foot setback. Most of the property is within 35. >> Okay. And speaking from myself, I hope that the uh that the people realize that they'll probably end up losing that patio.

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I I was with him today and I mentioned the potential for consequences. >> Yeah. Okay. So, uh what are we voting on to give the COC? >> Issue the COC. >> We could issue the COC and deal with the unpermitted structures under this NOI

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that we're looking at that will be before you in June. >> Okay. Now, not that Mark would ever do this, but what if uh someone less scrupulous than Mark >> uh would uh withdrew the NOI and we accepted the COC? Would that patio sit

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stay? >> It would, but I will say that that bulkhead is failing pretty badly. >> Not saying Mark would do that. I say >> this in this particular case, the applicant won't do it either because he needs he absolutely needs to rebuild this bulkhead. It's falling. It's

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falling in already. But >> yeah, I just want to make sure >> get it. >> There's a president. >> You always have the ability to file a violation. So >> if by some chance I pulled the NOI that I would expect you to file a violation a day after and then squared away.

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>> And failure to obtain a COC in a timely manner is also a violation. So I we could just violate them for not having the viol we could issue a violation for them not uh getting the COC if they apply for it. So now I understand there's

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>> anybody have any questions for Joe or Mark? No. >> So do I hear a motion to uh issue the COC for 14 Compass Drive? Is that where we are? Yes. And do I hear a motion for that?

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>> Some moved. >> Second. Anybody? >> Sure. Okay. Christian. All in favor? >> I. >> Anybody opposed? >> Okay. One nay. >> Oh, okay.

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>> Okay. Um, there's got to be a signature somewhere for this, right? >> There should be. >> What is this one here? >> No. What's this? >> This one. I can't find anything. Oh, there it is. Blue rock. >> Oh, that's blue rock. So, you already signed. >> Yeah. Pass this down and have them put

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the two singletons on that. Three sheets. What are the three sheets? Two sheets goes with those two sheets. >> Okay. >> It goes with those sheets. Two sheets. 14 compass. >> There's nothing. >> All right. >> Goes with that. >> Yeah.

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>> Those two sheets go with that. >> Okay. >> Okay. Next one is SE 83201 down Cape Engineering for Thomas Dandis, 7 Cape Isle Drive. Joe, >> so this was uh a notice of intent, a

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very old one. um for the construction of a single family dwelling. Um so a couple of the conditions in the order of conditions were that the downspouts should go to dry wells. Um and that the driveway was supposed to

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remain impervious. >> And yeah, so the downspouts, they don't go they don't go to dry wells, but they do have splash pads underneath them. Um I took photos. It didn't look like there was major erosion happening around them. Um,

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>> technically it doesn't, you know, comply with the order. The driveway was paved, but it also is shown as paved in a determination of applicability that was issued. So

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it's we basically approved it by issuing the DOA showing the uh the pvious driveway. Uh in addition, there is an unpermitted patio and concrete walkway.

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Um let me show that picture real quick. So they have Oops. Don't do that. do this. Right next to the porch, there's a little uh stone paper patio with, I believe, a fire pit in the middle right

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here. And this walkway, right? Uh and just a couple of other things. There's supposed to be an 8ft native buffer strip uh behind the wall. It looks like it's only about four feet right now. And that's from the DOA in 2015 as well.

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So, um, my guess is that we should not permit this COC, not issue the COC. >> Not as is, but we do have a notice of intent for this one as well. So, same deal as the last one. We could attempt to uh have the patio and walkway

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permitted under that notice of intent. Um, >> and obviously making sure that uh all the other conditions are fulfilled after that. So the wider planting bed and whatever mitigation you might want for the patio if you even want to approve the patio.

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>> Okay. >> This is the same same circumstances the previous questions Paul. >> Yeah just what what are the dates on something like this? I mean how long is COC's have to be don't they have to be addressed within three years? Yeah,

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within three years unless they get an extension and then the uh the we can start finding if we wanted but normally we start with a COC reminder letter just to say hey you might have forgotten because it's been a while that you have to apply for a COC. >> We're very nice how you like that. But

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so how long is this? There's a date of 2015 on here. Is this >> that was the that was the last thing that we approved at the property. So, uh, I don't nowadays whenever we get something new, we try to button up anything previous,

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uh, and they weren't always as diligent in the past. So, sometimes, you know, you'll get a COC for a more recent project where one in the past didn't get one. But we're trying to fix that moving forward so that >> clean up dodge a little bit here. Huh.

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>> So, so the last time this was addressed was 2015. >> That's what it looks like. So the the unpermitted patio etc went in between 2015 and and today >> yeah I believe so >> the patio was around 2018 is when it was

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put in >> that's in the that's in the narrative for the filing that Joe has >> again you'll see in June >> rinse and repeat. All right. Thank you.

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>> Anybody else? Can I hear a motion to issue the COC? >> So moved. >> Second. Anybody? >> Seconded. Okay. Get a vote. All in favor

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of issuing the COC. >> I one nay. >> Okay. And that's seven cape isle um next one is SE 832322 Cape Town Cape Engineering for

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Christopher Hooven 12 Railroad Bluffs. Okay, you're on again, Jack, Joe, whatever your name is. >> Jeez. >> All right, so this was the project itself was pretty straightforward. They uh enclosed a section of the porch on an

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existing porch um in the buffer zone to Salt Marshian Coastal Bank. Um that work completed. No issues with that. The minor minor issues, there is uh two concrete benches and two boats that are currently being stored. on salt marsh

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according to the plan. Um so I would recommend issuing the COC pending their removal. >> Okay, >> sounds good to me. Anybody comments, questions. >> Okay. How hard is it to remove the uh

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concrete benches? Oh, there they are. >> The benches may be difficult. The boat should be easy. They don't necessarily look like they're used very often. >> Okay. And that walkway is >> uh that's that's okay. Yeah, that shows up in the plans. >> Okay. All right. Um Okay. A motion to

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You have a question or making the motion? >> Make a motion. >> Okay. So, Jack made a motion to issue the COC. >> Second. >> Second from Bradford. All in favor? >> I. Anybody opposed? Unanimous. Okay.

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>> Excuse me. Sorry, my signature changes as I get tired. >> Okay, last one we hope. SE832266 Downcape Engineering from Mark Stove, 172 Blue Rock Road. And you have something you'd like to say about that?

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>> Uh, yeah. So, this project was a reconstruction of existed permanent uh license dock, bulkhead, and access stairs. Um, let's see. Oh, there ongoing special conditions for the order of conditions were uh for

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native plantings and no dumping along the bank there. Um, and I approved an admin review last year, uh, where they took care of some pitch mines that had fallen over and we asked them to replace with one tree to

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stabilize. I didn't see any new trees there. So, uh, I would say uh, I would recommend issuing this certificate of compliance uh, pending a Oh, wait. No, hold on. Yeah, they're

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included in the notice of intent for 166 Blue Rock because they're going to tie in their their bulkheads. So, I don't know if it's fair to include uh that tree in there or if you want to approve the COC separately pending uh proof that that tree was planted.

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>> Question. Uh would the tree be impacted by the work that would occur um with the new NOI? >> Where is that tree? We said to plant it anywhere along the bank. So, uh, you're only tying in at the western edge, right?

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>> The north end. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> At the at the bottom. So, he could plant it wherever he wants. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Didn't want to have you put it in and then >> appreciate that. >> Um, I'm not I wasn't aware of that. So,

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how big a tree do you need? Usually, I think uh it might be specified in the admin review, but usually like one to two inch caliber, something from the native tree list, probably not another pitch pine because it's just going to fall over again. >> So, in this case, if we issue, they're

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not coming in with an NOI. >> They're included. So the property next door 166 >> right >> that the NOI that's filed for them it rebuilds their stairs rebuilds the bulkhead no dock and um stabilizes the

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part the small portion of the bank 172 stopped their bulkhead 15t from the property line we put fiber rolls so now that there's going to be another bulkhead we want to make them contiguous so they would actually be doing work on 172

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The notice has 172 signatur signature page and butters are filed for both properties and all that. So there is an NOI that would cover uh it's would be filed against both properties I think but um we can cover anything we need to

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cover but um I'll just I'll let him know that he needs to plant a tree if >> Yeah. Or or if he did and I just didn't see it, he just needs to let me know where it is. So there it is kind of a pretty well vegetated bank there. But

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yeah, the work is going to be just in this top corner right here where it's going to tie in and then so they could plant anywhere else along the property. >> Okay. So, um, anybody want to make the motion to ex issue the CLC?

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>> Ending the tree. >> Ending the tree. >> So moved. >> Moved. Second. Pat. >> All in favor? >> Anybody opposed? All right. got rid of a lot of stuff today. >> Those three notices I've been holding on

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to since February because we needed to file for the COC. So, it it works like a 1996 or something. >> Which one was that? >> For seven cape for the septic, the house and the septic. >> Yeah, they were these were some of the

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oldest COC requests that I've seen. We had uh 75 and 76 in this 2011 was uh >> we're on what now? 27 >> 25 20 2530 something. >> Yeah.

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>> Is over 6,000. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Crazy. >> They're bigger. >> Anyway, okay. Well, thank you for your flexibility, everybody. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I will see you well on the 21st and and the uh and the fourth for Julius fun.

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>> All right. Next is approval of minutes from 41626. I think I must have read them. >> Did you read them? >> They're okay. >> They're okay. Okay. Made the motion. Anyone second? >> I'll second. >> Second. I'll accept. All in favor

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accepting the minutes. >> I. Anybody opposed? Okay. Any other business we need to know about? >> Not that I know. We didn't add any other announcements there. Right. >> Okay. I will say >> uh what >> how did the coastal resiliency fair go?

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>> Yeah. I don't know if I'd call it a coastal resiliency fair, but it was an opening to the uh to the drive to the Paka River and it went well. A lot of people came to the table. Um you know, nobody yelled or swore at us.

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We ran out of um brochures for the for the trails, which was nice. Um and uh people people were very nice and and there were a lot of people there. It's hard to tell that because it's such a large area, but there were a lot of people there. And um and other tables

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that were also part of resiliency, so I really shouldn't say that wasn't. But um yeah, >> we also had flyers with the uh the drought restrictions and and quite a few people took those as well. And we see signs up. >> Yes.

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>> Signs up. And uh some people like myself are still calling up when they see people. So if you do see people watering, call the water department or go on their website and email one of the administrative aids and the address. And they're very good about getting back to you and doing it.

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>> And they got a insert in what was it? The water bill or >> Yeah. In the bill. Yeah. >> Yeah. The problem with that I found and I said that to the woman I spoke with is that I get my water bill online. >> So I look at it and say, "Okay, it's about normal." You know, it didn't go it

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didn't triple um and that's it. I don't look at the inserts and I So I >> was going to say I don't remember getting it, but because I also do it online automatically paid so I don't have to think of that. Um, so but uh and

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then I noticed something on um on I think it was Facebook page. The only problem I had with that is they didn't say in there irrigation is is uh not allowed at all. It just said we're under level two. >> Didn't really explain.

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>> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. They didn't explain, >> right? You saw that too. >> Yeah. So I was a little disappointed in that. Maybe if they're listening, one of the select people, select boards listening, they could uh correct that because people need to know they can't

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irrigate >> or at least continue reminding folks throughout the summer, not just now, >> right? This is and you know, somebody at the table said came to the table said, "I don't understand. We're getting a lot of rain." >> Yeah. >> You have to explain to them how long it takes that rain to make its way down to

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the aquifer. Well, yeah, that's a toughy because our pond is the long pond is as high as it ever has been. >> Yeah. >> So, it's a real tough hall to try to prove things. >> And there is definitely a difference

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among the towns on their capability of their pumping systems, if you will, how many pumps they have, how well spread out they are, and so forth. So, it's a real hassle.

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>> Does pond drain any of that pond? Does it have a >> Yeah, it has an exit that has actually a fish ladder or, you know, ladder on it. It's a fairly small um but it mostly drains out towards the Bass River as far as groundwater.

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>> David, I just want to mention I just yesterday had the occasion to go down to Haritch to the reconstructed cranberry box down there. I don't know if you any but It's just a um very impressive what they've done down there. >> One on Bank Street or or a different one. >> It's the

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>> the fire department. >> Near the fire department. Yeah. That's really nice. And um I hope >> Well, I know that the one near the hospital will be similar. And I hope they that someday we can get over to the um White Rock Road Cranberry Bug. That

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would be amazing if they could do that. >> Yeah. I went there actually two weeks ago with my dog. It was great. Haritch. >> Yeah, Norwich. >> Oh, yeah. It's really, really nice. >> Also, we must not have a sign or something or a tablecloth. That was that

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>> Oh, >> for our table at the resiliency fair. >> We're going to do more of that. >> We need a better sign. It says conservation commission. >> That is I've noted that for future use. Yeah, we will. >> Okay. >> At least a little a little strip that says conservation to put it >> or a big strip depending on how

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advertise maybe you don't want to advertise much. You know, I think I think what's nice is we need to do more of outreach than we have. >> Yes. >> So maybe uh >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. Can I hear a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second.