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We if we fixed it what? >> No, none of those mics were working yesterday. >> Recording [clears throat] in progress. >> I don't know what was yesterday. >> Okay, >> that one's working. >> It's working. >> Begin, right? >> Yep. >> Okay. Good evening everybody. This is a

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meeting of the Armouth Conservation Commission of August 6, 2026. Um, we'll get started right away. The first item on the agenda is a request for certificate of compliance

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SE83 2331 Land Planning Incorporated for Robert and Lisa Vigno, 12 Vermont Avenue. >> So, the COC request is all set. There were some very minor deviations from the

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order and I would recommend um issuance of the certificate of compliance with ongoing conditions 18 19 and 20. >> Anybody have any questions or comments? >> Okay. Anyone like to make a motion?

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>> I I move that we issue the COC with ongoing conditions. >> Second. >> Second by Jack. >> Oh, you know I forgot. Do I have to ask for um comments on our COC? >> Not for COC. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I >> I

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>> Hey, pass unanimously. We'll move on to the next one. S E832367 down Cape Engineering uh for Ed Stafford Eden Adrina Road. Um

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>> um this one was similarly all set with minor deviations though there are just a few things missing from the asbuilt Dan um that we would request just be added to the asbuilt to be submitted and that was the fire pit and and the stairs that

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were not removed. Um if you could just add those to the asbuilt plan. Um, and we would recommend issuance of the COC with ongoing conditions 16 and 17. And just a quick reminder to the homeowner,

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we saw a tick and mosquito flag um acknowledging that not all of those are pesticides. Some of them are other things, but no pesticides are allowed in the 50oot buffer. So, just a reminder to them about that. >> Okay, any questions?

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>> No. No. >> All set. >> I have a motion. >> Yeah. I move that we um issue the COC with ongoing conditions 16 and 17 and a reminder about the pedest

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pesticide u and then the asbuilt um revisions. Those are just coming later or whatever, right? >> Yeah, that would be great if you can whenever you kind of wording problem. I'll be happy to add that. I think the stairs are there, but we the fire pit

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isn't. So, >> okay. I was just not sure about the stairs. Um because on the original plan they they showed uh or was it just this portion of the stairs that you meant >> to be removed? It was >> Yeah, there was like a staircase over here.

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>> Oh, yeah. Just that little portion over there remained. Yeah. >> Oh, just the small portion. Okay. All right. Just the fire pit then. That would be great. Thank you. >> Second. We need a >> We need a second. Can we get a second? >> We have a a motion. >> Oh, yeah. I move.

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>> You made the motion. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay, we're good. We're moving right along here. >> Okay. Uh, next is a um monitoring report SP 832282 tape engineering for Anthony Fiola on

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Malfura Road permitted bulkhead with proposed start to phase [clears throat] two uh for riff wrap placement. Dan, >> good evening. Uh, members of the commission. Dan Ojula from Downkeep Engineering. Uh, helping Anthony Fiola out here. Um, this was one where, um, we

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kind of saw the writing on the wall that between the the ships that go by and so forth, the feries that there was going to be some erosion here. And, uh, we've suppressed the mark where the wall is exposed. Um, we couldn't replace, we couldn't put these stones earlier because we would have upset some pete

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and some some fill that was there. But now that it's u eroded away, it would be a very opportune time and should be done uh to install a little um um stone wall. Um Britney wanted us to come in and and and just let you guys know to keep

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everybody apprised that uh would be proceeding with that work, but we're putting some you know two to four ton armor tones stones uh fit in place uh dug down to about minus 34. So they should get under well under the sand

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there and they'll be u just loose fit rock um but fit together fill any gaps in the uh uh in the in the larger with one to two foot stones and um it'll be a place where you know there'll be some some wildlife habitat uh perhaps uh

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better than a a smooth face stone or or concrete jetted uh grouted. So uh just a natural stone look. It'll kind of cover up the face of the wall, too, so it won't look so artificial. So, um, that was all approved on the original order, but it's been a little while now. So,

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um, I believe my understanding was that you wanted us to come in, uh, just so um, before Marine starts it, just so you can, uh, uh, understand what's going on. And if you have any comments, we'll be glad to address them. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Comments or questions?

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>> I just had a random one. Um be it's just because of the picture of um I guess this is the south elevation. I don't this do you have the pictures there? The >> the pictures that >> we took at the site >> or

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>> um in my it stayed July 24th. >> Okay. >> Um anyways, there's just debris there. I was just wondering where the the CMU debris and and stuff came from and and what that was all about. Um Dan, it's like here. Do you

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see it here? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> When Dan >> Yeah, there's a couple of blocks there. >> I'm not sure, but as you recall there, this site was a little bit messy. There was an old busted up seaw wall. Okay. Some land of these pictures. >> Yeah. >> And um >> it could have been some remains of that.

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I mean, there was, I think back in the day, some some junky fill there. So, we can certainly pick those blocks out of there. >> Junk out. Yeah, that's all. >> I'd be happy to do that. Get it cleaned up. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? >> Nice picture of the stairs up in the air

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there where the the dirt used to be, but that's all gone now. >> Um, I don't have a question on the rip wrap. Um, I have a question on the mitigation planting. Yes, >> the original plan calls for a 5 foot native plant strip.

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>> Yes, bunnies had a field day with that according to Mr. Fiola, but uh that absolutely needs to be redone. So, as part of this work, and Britney had pointed that out as well. You can see some of them are trying to stay there, but uh we'll uh get that grass out of there and and and redo the five foot strip as part of this. That's a

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reasonable condition. >> Okay, great. Thank you. There was a question also about what are the size of the stones they're going to go are they going to be an embankment of stones or >> Yeah. So um the there's a they're pretty well a fairly good detail call out on

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that um but they'll be um uh two to four ton armor stones um so good size. Um and then um that's over a smaller bedding stone and then you take one to two foot rock and fill the chinks with that. So,

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they'll be um fairly goodized stones. Um you're not going to move it by hand, that's for sure. >> Those are placed from above the wall. >> So, they go in front of the wall. >> I know, but I mean, how do they put them down there? >> Um well, they'll they'll have to excavate down uh beneath the grade and

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then they rest them up against the against the uh >> fitting them carefully so they don't, you know, dent the or or crack the vinyl. The vinyl is pretty tough, but you certainly don't want to roll a big rock right against it hard. But, um, Beacon's good. They built the original

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wall. They know the drill. So, um, that's how they'll work it. They'll dig it down, get the filter fabric, get some trap rock, and, uh, and fit the stones in by hand. Uh, nice, neat, you know, irregular natural look finish. >> And they're able to access to do that

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work from above the wall. No need to go on the beach. Um, I imagine they would uh probably need to go on the beach a little bit. The last one you did, you we you let us go, you know, 15 to 20 feet on the on the Seawward side. Um, it's there's no really any sensitive

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receptors there, I don't think. Um, >> the only reason I ask is the original >> the original order does not allow any access onto the beach. Um, and when Beacon uh contacted me to do a pre-construction meeting,

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they were worried about that. Um, but the original order says that all work has to be completed from the upland. >> Yeah. Um, I I think that you could do that, but it would be harder to do that, and I think it would be a lot faster and

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better if we were able to disturb just a little bit of that beach. Um, we could certainly do a pre-construction survey and put it right back the way it was. Um, again, it's it's a beach, you know, people rake the beach, they drive tractors on the beach. There's a lot of things that happen. Um, it's just sand.

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Used to be that there was some pete there and, you know, you know, I don't know if some friends of salt marsh or something, but that's that's simply gone now. Um, would the commission be objectionable to have a 10-ft strip in front to be able to just work on the

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open beach and put it back afterwards? I mean, is that >> I mean, there is still Pete there. Um, which is why I imagine that the condition was there and it comes within like six feet of the wall. >> Um, that would >> Anybody have any thoughts on that?

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>> This is just for temporary. >> It would be temporary disturbance. bringing the machinery down onto the beach surface, >> which like he said, we have approved in the past on other beaches, but this beach does have Pete on it, which is

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probably why the original order where I think probably only Paul was on the commission at the time. The um you know the other thing was is that before we were just doing the um the sheeting which is kind of easy to do from the uphill side uh to usually use a

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you know a good a fairly good loader excavator with a thumb to place these and you got to dig down. It's going to be pretty awkward to do that from the high side. I think they would just they could probably leave like a 10-ft track and just work their way out this way. Um remember Pete is just old old organic

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matter, you know. I I I don't think there's anything living. Um you know, it's not like a salt marsh um situation. It's just a little bit of relic from a you know just after the ice age or whatever before I it was all buried by

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many feet of sand and then it got exposed. So I I don't think it's particularly sensitive receptor, but >> I'm also not even sure the commission would be able to relieve you from that condition at this point. >> I'm sorry, say again. Um, it is already in the order of conditions.

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So, you'd have to grant special permission to exempt him from that condition. >> Grant the permission for them to go down on the beach. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I wish I'd known that it was a condition. We would have we would have

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requested it. Um uh but I you know it's >> yeah just a pete area. >> So it says before this work takes place a written notification shall be sent to the conservation commission review at a public hearing. Um

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special condition number 12. All work shall be completed from the upland. No heavy construction or vehicles permitted on the intertitle area. >> So I also just want to clarify that it it's not >> Oh, it's above

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>> beach. It's a coastal bank that you would be driving on. >> No, it's just a beach >> that's way below the flood elevation. >> Yeah. So this actually was a land form before they put the wall in and the wall So the land has all gone away.

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I know that's >> the natural. Yeah. Well, I don't know how natural. >> This is the previous the previous location of the coastal bank before they put this wall in and it all has since eroded. >> Okay. >> Typically now would call the the wall a

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coastal bank, you know, but you know, it's it's there's always a debate over that because it's a it's a land form and we sometimes say, "Oh, it's a man form. It's >> in 2021 >> natural." So that's the old one. Yeah. >> I'm just concerned on on how how he

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would be able to work up on placing the boulders and that kind of thing. I don't know if that's possible. >> It would it would be very difficult. And and I would recall that all that concrete stuff was removed from down on the beach. So they had to been down

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there in the past. So, it's kind of a you know, it was it was in there, but I don't know that that condition has been historically enforced because it's we had to get all that rubble off the beach. There's more rubble to get off the beach and it's it's a just a quick

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temporary uh disturbance. >> Would be happy to survey it and make sure it goes back right where right where it is if if you'd allow it. If the resource area is already gone, then I don't have a problem driving on

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there. Um, there's going to be disturbance from burying the stones anyway. I don't know what we need to do in order to >> Yeah. >> Prove that as a >> I'll probably just have to write I'll

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write it on the pre-construction meeting form. >> Yeah. >> So, that's on the record. >> Um, I have two quick questions. stand. Are they going to extend the stairs so that they're functional [laughter] after? >> Uh, with your permission. Yeah, that

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would be nice. I mean, >> okay. >> Yeah. >> And my other question is about the detail. Um, it says jute mat with beach grass over compatible sand fill above the rocks. Are you doing that? Um,

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so to be clear, that was done prior and then it eroded away. That was before the wall was going to be there. So it would be nonsensical to do that now. Um, that was um if you look at the photos just after construction, u you'll see that it

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was a nice pete bank there. They didn't really touch it at all and they just kind of um there was a little bit of a scarp there that they filled with some sand. Um, so that was a note that was uh prior to um the wall. It was that was anticipating the original conditions.

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Yeah, sort of like that. Um, >> okay. So I don't So that was never done. >> Uh, well, it washed away if it was done. But I as I assume it's right right under the bottom of the picture there, that area was kind of down a little bit and it was filled up and some beach grass

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was planted. That was my understanding. >> That was the intent of that was just >> I've been there every year. I don't think they did that work. Um, just want that to be on the record. >> All right. What was the date of that photo? 23. >> July 2023. >> All right. See, that's how my plants got

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trampled. Look at that. >> Say it again. >> That's how my plants got trampled. Look at >> Oh, yeah. They're sitting on the wall. >> I don't know. >> But anyway, um All right. Well, so [clears throat] at that time, it would have made some sense to put some sand and beach grass there. Maybe it didn't need it because the vegetation was

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thriving, but that was the intent. Once the rocks are there, there's nothing that's going to support vegetation on the seawward side of that. >> Yeah. The timeline was just unclear on the site. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um getting back to that, whatever we're going to do to um void the condition on

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access or just make sure that we say that that it will be restored to the Yeah. We're going to put they are going to have to go down onto the beach and then Ellie is suggesting it'll be restored to its original condition.

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>> Yeah. And in fact, why don't we take the sand that's comes from the stones and just pile it up a little in front. I mean, I think that's would be a prudent thing rather than truck it off site. Just kind of You talked before about reourishing with some sand and it's already there. Um >> yeah, on in front or on top of the

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rocks. Um as long as it's not Do you know like what the volume would be like? What depth are you going to? Is it going to be too much? >> Well, I mean, it it won't be anything like what eroded. Uh, but it would be, you know, a few probably a couple cubic

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yards per or a yard per foot. Um, basically the volume of >> the tow stones would be about all that you're talking about. >> Okay. >> So, it's not that much. I mean, it would be probably about a foot tapering to nothing in four feet, you know, something like that. wouldn't be very

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much, but I I think it would be beneficial to put a little sand there because then it could help nourish the neighbor on either side. >> So, we remove >> so it could be um it no lower than existing uh

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>> yeah sand is allowed. >> Um I'll recommend marking the seawward side of the access limit for the pre-construction meeting. >> Okay. just stake it. You said 10 feet. >> Um, we gave him 20 on the last one. Um,

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I I can check with Beacon, but I if we if 15 is reasonable, I think that would probably be fine. Um, they might be able to get away with 10 depending on the size of the machine. To move the bigger toe stones, you've got to get a, you

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know, larger than a mini in there. >> Okay. We're good with that arrangement. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Everybody, >> I'm okay with it. >> Everybody's okay. Are there any comments from the um from anybody in the

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audience? >> No comments. Anybody online? >> Okay. So, uh do we need a [clears throat] vote on this though? >> I would vote. Yeah, I would recommend voting to approve everything we discussed, including

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um kind of voiding special condition 12 um and allowing phase two to proceed. >> Okay. All right. >> I go ahead. I move that we um approve the initiation

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of phase two um with the exception of special condition number 12 um and with the uh conditions as discussed for the pre-construction meeting. >> Okay. Second, please.

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>> I'll second. >> Second. All in favor? >> I I Okay. >> I appreciate your time. Um, thank you very much. >> Thanks, Dan. >> Before we move to the next one, I forgot to pass down some folders. Do that and

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go from there. >> Sorry, I should have reminded you. >> Yeah, Bradford, you're his reminder today. >> I'm sorry. >> I just realized I was the reminder. >> There's only one sheet on that one here. I think

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that's um Vermont >> should just be two because that last one there's nothing to sign >> doesn't have a sheet. >> That's correct. Yeah, you can just put that one to the side. >> All right, check this is >> this one. Third one doesn't need a

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signature. >> Okay, so just keeping it organized. [cough and clears throat] >> Just the top. >> Okay. >> Okay. The next item is a request for determination of applicability.

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Um Dr. Frank Puzzio 122.5 Thatcher Shore Road proposed vista pruning on town of Yarmouth land and love land subject to coastal storm flowage and the buffer zone to a salt marsh. >> I'm just going to bring it up here. You

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can come up to the >> like to come up and make a >> microphone. >> Yeah, you it's your presentation. Hi everyone. >> If you could just brief briefly describe Yeah. your proposal. >> Frank Puzzio, my wife Diane next to me

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and Lori and Rich Olsen also we share the cost are the two couples um to do the requested vista pruning. >> Okay. >> Now of course this is not um a new application. We came before this

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committee 12 years ago. >> 14 >> 14 years ago >> and it was a big session. There were scores and scores of neighbors there at the time and they gave us permission to do what we have done over the last 14

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years was simply giving the hedge in question that's in in front of the vista a haircut so to speak. Um where we just take the top annual growth off. Can I have one of those copies? And um there's

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no clear cutting that's done whatsoever. There's no tree disturbances or cutting. Uh all debris is removed. Um the request long ago was that we do this work by an an insured bonded arborist. We hire save

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a tree. They're expensive, but they do a good good good job. And the land is left just as it was. except for the very top of the hedge which of course obstructs the the beautiful vista for all to enjoy.

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Um so as again this was this is not a new proposal. This was granted to us but we were informed recently that the new regulations are such that every three years that you'd like us to come back and do what we're doing today.

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Um looking to see on my bullet list if I want to mention any anything as I said no trees removed just clear no clear cutting no disturbance of the understory as I think you use that term

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it remains as is all debris is removed or only taken off the very top the annual growth Um pretty simple from our point from our perspective. >> Okay. Anything else?

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>> I mean we have we could have filled 20 pages of signatures with approvals from people if we just started. But I think the point has been made that you know every we didn't have one objection to going down the street knocking on doors.

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Oh my, please. Here, I'd happily sign your this. You know, we love the vista and so forth. Um, and it is enjoyed if you were to park a vehicle out there and with a camera on it and look at all of the observation that that gets on a

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daily basis from the people that walk the street, walk their dogs, ride their bikes. You know, the police department from Yarmas just did a whole motorcycle parade up and down That Thatcher Road. >> I think it was called Thatchesore Road

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for a reason because it had a vista of a shore. >> This is the only spot you can see. >> I'm sorry, what? >> It's the only spot left you can really see. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> I mean I know I mentioned this to the

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couple of three of the committee members when they did a walk view view and I reiterated that the Thatcher family long ago uh had in mind to leave that area with views and have it maintained probably by the town of

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course um it was never done by the town. Um I've Diane and I have lived there for 40 something years now and um again over the last long time we've maintained it ourselves at our cost

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>> with the Olsson's we've spent $27,600 the two families in order to keep it and really the town should be the one doing the work not us but at that last meeting that last thing that one of the board members said was Frank I don't have an objection and if you're willing to do it

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yourselves That's one less thing the town has to do. If you pay attention to the guidelines that we specify, we'll be happy to do it. Now, I know Britney brought up the fact that things have changed over the years and you now have the Wetland Protection Act that you have

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to be aware of. And so whatever rules and regulations apply, we're happy to comply with. But we'd like to maintain the obvious vista that you know that has been established from many many it's about 75 years that

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that's been in place. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Anyone on the commission questions, comments? Um, >> Jack, >> did you Britney, do you have comments first that you'd want to make?

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>> No, you guys go ahead first. >> Oh, >> well, in that case, I'm going to open it up. >> Great. >> Um, not only you're talking about the Vista, so you're talking about the, if you will, a hedge, >> a hedge, >> but it doesn't address the lawnmowing

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you're doing, which is also town land. And if you look at the rules for open space management for the all the town lands essentially you're not supposed to carry off anything from you can't like you

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said you can't uh trim the trees you can't touch them you have to adhere to your vista agreement and um but you do do you leave the all the lawnmowings

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Maybe four times a year when it gets up to about 8 in or so I'll give it a trim. I don't cut it down to a low level. I usually >> But you leave it there. The trimmings >> the >> Or do you use a grass catcher?

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>> I have a >> Yeah, it's got a bag. >> So they're collected. >> I usually leave the debris. >> Yeah. Good. Okay. But what I'm I've been looking at the trail maintenance issues we have and we don't really have a good

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description of because of the idea you can become stewards of of which you have really done become a steward of this area and I commend your whole neighborhood for that. But um if you'd like to do a little more and actually

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make that instead of lawn a meadow area and um I think that it might require a little more agreement than we could reach tonight and uh to talk in terms of how you'd be

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a steward of even more of the marsh, but there's no trails that are visible out into the marsh. Is that true from your >> We don't have a trail, >> but I saw that >> I've never ventured out there. >> No trails from there, but >> up the street. Yeah,

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>> other side of the inlet. >> And there's deer trails. >> There's there's like the little there's a tiny trail here that just goes in and comes out. >> Put that. And when they put those blue boxes out there, >> they go through there to put the >> the green head boxes out there.

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>> They weren't always there. >> Is that what they're called? Green head. the green head too >> and because I did see there's one little opening in the bushes that look as if somebody does go out there once in a while too. >> Never else the town goes through there.

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>> In fact, last year I watched him from our our our patio >> drag them in and out of that >> that was hit that area. >> I'm sorry. They did what to >> the blue boxes. He drags them. >> Oh, I see. >> He can't he can't carry them physically.

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Yeah. >> Holds them. >> Yeah. They those those just kind of >> none of that is ventured into in any way by any of us >> go in there. >> I don't know this is something that I'm bringing up that's new to everybody on the commission

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essentially. And um as far as I know they haven't dealt with this in a an official manner of creating these stewardship positions. But I'd like to try that and see if we could come up with some type of an agreement for a lot

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of our conservation areas that in fact we do have have had agreements with Boy Scouts of America and others for different parts but we don't have it all collected into one space. So I'm interested in bringing that together and I

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maybe just doing the vista pruning now and then maybe if later on we get to a position where we can come back to you and see if there's a chance of expanding what you actually end up doing including putting maybe a meadow in there instead of the grass

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>> have flowers growing in it and so forth. >> Well there are a lot of different kind of mixtures so maybe >> native grasses and wild flowers. Yeah. >> Um, more of a meadow than just a grassy area. >> I doubt anyone ever seated that to make it whatever it is. The

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>> grass. >> Oh, yeah. It's just >> 40 years. >> Yeah. >> But I've lived there. >> Okay. >> For sure. >> I mean, people do enjoy >> again walking their bringing their dogs in there. The school, the nursery school

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up on 6A, they bring their children down to picnic there twice a year. >> Oh. They do. They all They all hold a rope and they all follow each other down. >> A conflict right there. >> Unfortunately, it is not a picnic area.

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It's a park. It's a conservation area, not a park. Well, I you know because I've been researching the guidelines respective to this and and um you know we protect these these uh areas for for their natural resource values and and we

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also support passive recreation which does include walking and actually picnicking as well. Um I have a question. What why are you mowing it? Is it it you know >> it always was done >> because it was always done. So there

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wasn't the natural grass was not preventing you from doing anything. >> It was always that way. >> Yeah. And I don't know if that's what's >> longer than myself. But >> is that what's before us right now? >> I'm sorry, Ellie. What >> is that? Is that what's before us right

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now? Can we talk about the mowing or >> We can talk about the mowing, but it's not included in your proposal. Yeah. >> Um, so there's probably what I would recommend the commission is, you know, discuss the proposal and then the permissions to actually do the work on the property because the proposal is

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just Vista pruning. Um, okay. >> And then the commission, it's your property. So you also have to grant him permission to do it. >> Um, okay. And the mowing [clears throat] is not included in the proposal currently, though it does occur. And it

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is something that I personally would recommend the commission no longer allow in its current form. um with the goal ending up like Jack said, I was you beat me to it for the to for either the

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conservation commission and staff and town or andor with help from you all creating an attractive meadow area that does not need to be mowed or mowed to the frequency where you are doing it because you are disturbing frequently this area that's meant to be natural and

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meant to be passive open space. So that would be my vision for this property is for the town to take responsibility for it um and pursue an improvement which would be within the bounds of what the conservation commission would normally

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do for their conservation areas that they manage which would be invasive species management and installation of a meadow instead of just vista pruning. >> Yeah. I I mean I just want to make a statement that continued mowing is not consistent with our the town of Yarmit's

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conservation purposes. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. As far as the Vista pruning in my research, I don't panic with me asking this question. I thought it wasn't allowed in a wetland. >> It currently is not allowed in a wetland. >> Okay. So, how did we get here? [laughter]

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>> I Yeah. So, 2012 was 2012. The commission allowed it. Um, in our current regulations, Vista pruning is allowed just in the buffer zone, not in the wetland itself. >> Right. >> Um, that being said, there are ways to improve the vista at this location. I looked at the plants. It is a huge mix

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of native and invasive species. Um, if the native if the invasive species were managed, there would be pocket vistas. Not like you have it now with a flat top, but you'd have, you know, an improved vista, but in a more

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managed way. Yeah. A more responsible way that would be consistent with what you would do with other lands that you own, >> which is also typically how we require vistas to be cut in. Yeah. >> A more underlating pattern. It's

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>> which they did propose. >> Okay. >> Just not how they were doing it in the past. >> Okay. I'm sorry. You're you're you have a proposal in the town for >> No, no, just >> if I may. Okay. Um talking to Britney,

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thinking about this thing, knowing a little bit about it in terms of um not living in a neighborhood, but pretty close to it. I've seen this for a long long time. And I think that what exists is a at this particular juncture is really an opportunity to make this um

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manageable and maintain the um the integrity and the beauty of the area by adhering to a lot of the regulations that do exist. For example, um that mode area could become a a meadow type of an

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area. It would take some money that potentially could be applied for from tourism funds or conservation funds that we have. I don't think that it's um really appropriate in many ways um to to expect the neighborhood to take care of

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it in a way when the town has a responsibility to it. Uh the Vista pruning also could be managed in such a way that it uh does adhere to the Vista pruning um regulations that I think Bradford just referred to in terms of

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making it look like a more natural area or maintaining it as a more natural area. Um, I think all of these things together and Britney has a wealth of information regarding some of this stuff um would would um not only make it it

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looks great now, but it could look better. It could be better with again that meadow with the different vista pruning and so on. It still could be accessible to the public like a lot of the conservation areas are. The other thing is that um I say this all the

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time, so I'll speak for myself. I'm not getting any younger. Okay. So, the thought of keeping it in a certain uh kind of a context for the future is very very important. Um the good graces of the neighborhood now maintains it in a

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certain way. Is that always going to exist? We don't know. But what will exist are the u the the regulations having to do with vistas, the regulations having to do with maintain an area of for example not mowing uh as

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much as maybe we think we should and that type of thing. So, um I think that there is something that I talked to Britney about that she informed me about about the fact that it is town land that um there is one avenue where you go to

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the um select board and you say you know can we do things here as private citizens. I think if I understood we can we can um approach that in a different way. Is that correct? I think yeah, we need confirmation on on what's to move forward depending on what

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we decide tonight. >> So So what what would be the the best way in your mind? And maybe you've already said it, but I didn't hear everything um to approach this at this particular juncture. >> Um what what does the applicant think

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about the town pursuing the meadow and the pruning? >> Say that again. >> What do you think about what we've what we talked about? I mean, a meadow would be nice. Have wild flowers growing there and so forth. I wouldn't have to mow it. >> Yeah. >> Gasoline and all that. That's fine.

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>> Yeah. >> But yeah, I think people wouldn't go into it as much if they were going to disturb other things. But >> well, there are other ways though to get into the area beh into the marshes. I

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think you've said there's there trails, you know, down along that shore there that you >> Yeah, but I couldn't get there from there. What's the difficult get there from here? >> But there's also a good reason for that because, you know, there are some areas that shouldn't be trampled upon, you

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know, that type of deal. They maintain the the wild animals could do it, but you know, >> well, down further um across that water, you know, where the water goes like towards that street from Flint >> that where they were going to do the >> they have the um >> the little bridge thing they were going

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to do that there is a a walkway that was historic walk that was one of the other impossible to get to the end of that and walk over to this property. Plus, you disturb all kinds of things you don't want us to. >> But then the tide comes back.

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>> This is very simple. It goes they'll be done in an hour and it's over. >> Well, one thing to think of, and I again I always rely on Britney to tell me if I'm off base here, but if there's a certain amount of vista pruning that's done in in um adherence to the

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regulations, folks have to get back there to do it. So there would have to be some sort of a path or some sort of an access way to um get back where they can do pruning. >> Yep. >> You know, and um you know, it seems like

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it's a bit problematic that this hedge is on the wetland. So that would have to be worked out too in terms of what could be touched and what couldn't. >> You know, I've never seen >> the salt water coming into that area. There is a wet spot that Britney pointed

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out, but that's mainly from after big rains and so forth, not from the tide bringing the water in. >> Well, there's there's scientific ways of determining where that border is. And so that probably has never been done. And so there'd have to be some sort of

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analysis of that area, I believe, um to determine where that delineation is, that type of thing. So I think all personally I think all those things are good because um it's an area that needs to be protected. It's an area that is um

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as the gentleman said one of the last vistas out across the across the marsh that type of thing. There was the intent of the Thatcher family years ago of course that was before the wetland protection act um that we're grateful for. And so, but I think there are

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certain things that need to be put in place to in perpetuity make sure that that always remains a strong area of compliance and of natural beauty. >> Yeah. And it would be nice if we didn't have to come back every three years to

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go through the same. >> You wouldn't have to do that because it wouldn't it wouldn't be your responsibility >> at the time. >> Yeah. >> Where's one of these meadows? What would be a good example of Where could we see that? >> Um I don't know. I don't know where.

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>> Well, by next year, Chase, >> when folks come in here, a lot of times there's plantings along the buffer zone that they refer to as meadows. Okay. And typically they'd be wild flowers. They could be other things, but um Britney, maybe you could answer that.

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>> I can pull up a photo. Just going to take a minute. >> Sprinkle seeds for wild flowers. >> I think it has to be >> trees. >> Yeah. Well, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. It's a little different process. I I talked to Britney a little bit. It's a little bit of a different process what would have to be done to get it started.

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Okay. There would have to be a process. Um maybe some folks on the com commission know that. But um there there it wouldn't be just a matter of spreading some seeds out. It would be roughed up and so on so forth. The experts would tell you how to do that.

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>> What what was there? What was there >> years ago? I think it was just what what do we mow it? We're just >> took care of that, you know. I mean >> I mean it was buffer. >> Do we have a grass? >> All right, Jack. No, >> we have an estimation of how far that

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hedge, if you will, goes back in >> how deep it is. >> What do you mean? >> Just a something I researched this morning and Britney probably knows more exactly than I do. Yourself, you were down there, Jack. >> Is that honeysuckle? the majority of that hedge. I have a

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piece of it right here. >> Yeah, bring it up. >> Well, I looked at all the plants there. >> Learned a lot this morning. [laughter] >> It is honey. It's extremely invasive. >> Yes. So, there's a lot of invasives, but there's also a lot of native plants

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there. >> I know. I too. >> And if you do this to it, if there's a brown center to it, it kind of is an indication that it is the honeysuckle. >> This is not honeysuckle. Um, but this is

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an invasive plant called glossy buckthornne. So there, but yeah, when I was there, I noted like 12 species just really fast. Um, there's invasive plants, but there's also native plants. You've got hibush blueberries. You've got tons of viburnum species,

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which are all essential pollinator habitat. And when you continually damage them on the top, they can be susceptible to other diseases and pests. So >> the way I see that none of that >> yeah there's some holl and cedar trees

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that were top >> my yard >> birds bring it in >> there's some grasses and things that we didn't find >> yeah so I think the commission is trying to push you away from your current vista

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pruning application to try and have the town take the responsibility. Um, but if you're still trying to pursue it, the commission can vote at least on the on the wetlands permitting perspective. So, for the RDA,

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issue a DOA of some sort. Um, and we can continue talking about the permissions, but not sure how else. >> How quickly would the town be able to come up with a a maintenance plan for this? I know you and Joe are pretty >> No, we wouldn't do it. We would have

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someone else like we'd hire someone to do it and we would need money. So, we'd have to get approval for spending money from the conservation fund or seeking money through the tourism fund. Um, so not implementing this year, probably spring,

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>> but we could potentially have that place for next the next season is what I'm >> Yeah. >> saying. Okay. pay for it. You're going to have to hire somebody who you were gonna hire. >> But the proposed work is different from

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what we're proposing. Um I don't know. >> Talk to me about this bucket truck. What is that all? How does that >> save a tree company? They have >> and that does the least amount of disturbance. >> Okay.

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>> That just comes up over top. They don't go in there at all. >> Just trim the top and they take the debris away and >> it's over in an hour. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Cuz whatever we do, if I mean if there is a meadow, we we do have to make sure we have access.

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>> Yeah. >> Well, I really hate to >> Yeah. >> I don't think we can come up with >> solutions tonight. >> Yes. And so because one approach would be going with the Vista, another approach would be to go in and

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get a grant or if you folks wanted to donate money to a project to go in and get rid of the invasives and actually have a whole project which we off we like to do. [laughter] Usually, this is a fairly complex mix of

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things. So it might be a little tougher to apply the idea, but uh essentially getting rid of the invasives and like you talked about digging up some of it, but trying to be very careful you save the native plants and and that could

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take either way is going to be a combination of things that could take I'd say three or four years or longer to plan and get money unless there was because you're going to have to >> get up a plan. We're going to have to

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come up with a way of funding it, go through the select board and so forth because we're I don't think we would have enough money in our own funds to do this. Unless you think there might be >> I I'm not sure until we get a quote the

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direction because if it's over a certain amount of money, you have to put it out, you know, get quotes and follow procurement laws. Um but if it's a small project, it it'll be much easier to do. You know, another thought is to give us permission this year to do it because it's still grow, you know, it's growing higher every week and to be more

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disturbance and more issues and then over the course of a year with conversation we can come up with the future. >> Yeah, I think that's probably a good point. Well, the thing about it is that um

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if anybody comes before this commission asking for example to mow town land along the wetland, you know what the answer would be? Okay. And so that's a that's a problem also because we try to

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maintain a consistent approach to the application of the wetland protection act and any other town regulations having to do with conservation land. So I think there's a little bit of an emotional element to this because folks have worked hard to keep it the way it is. But there is the requirement for

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this commission to follow the regulations and for the preservation of the wetlands and etc. And so what I would ask for is um patience in terms of transitioning this particular

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uh arrangement so that the the commission can look into a few possibilities. It may not cost as much money as you think to for example have somebody go in and um and prepare that area for um a um a meadow kind of an

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approach. And there may be enough money in the conservation fund and maybe a couple of other funds to do this. Um I've seen that money used in some ways that are okay. This would be one of the best uses of that money that I've ever

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seen. Okay. Um it also it puts a highlight on that area in terms of how it could be proper. Not that it's not being properly done now. It's being done the way you were instructed to to do it. But I think there's a you know There's

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always changes. There's always things that change. I think that's already been made clear and we have that responsibility. So, um, the other thing is if I don't know if if we voted on this tonight in terms of giving permission to do that, I'm not sure what

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the outcome would be and then it couldn't happen, you know. So, I I don't know. So, so it's a it's an important pivot point as far as I'm concerned and um, so I I I I don't know what to say other than that. I'm sorry.

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>> What is the town motive? >> The town is >> the what the conservation commission is is trying to put forward is that they're they don't support the mowing. The mowing is not supported. It's their land and they would never mow it on their own

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valition and just because it's being been mowed since it always has. Um they they don't want to mow it in the future. >> The commission >> the commission It's [clears throat] not consistent with how they manage their all of their other

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properties. They own 1,800 acres of land and it's just not they don't mow other properties unless there's established trails. Um then you just do the edges of the trails. >> Okay. Um anything else from the commission? Well,

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do we want to? >> So, there's still >> if there's any comments from the from the audience and also online. Any comments from the audience? If you take the go to the podium, please identify yourself. >> Hi, Patricia Blackburn, 15 Flint Lock. I live next door to the Puzzios. I just

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have one quick question. I heard somebody mention established trails. It's when it's mowed, it's an established area that we walk every day. And if it's left to go to Meadow, I think it'll be tickridden. And I don't

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think we'll be walking there anymore. And we won't have our dogs and all the neighbors won't have their dogs there. It's a it's a lovely area. These guys have done a great job maintaining it. And as a local resident who appreciates

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nature, I'd like to see it remain status quo. It is it is an area where we all regularly walk. >> Thank you. >> Save your money. Save your time. >> Excuse me, sir. Yes, Mark.

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[clears throat] >> Hi there, Mark Burgess. Um, I've just been listening to the whole presentation and I appreciate what the private citizens are trying to do and I also appreciate the town looking for middle ground. Could I suggest

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if you approve the RDA tonight only for the vista pruning only for this season and no mo then they could at least maintain what they have now and take the rest of the season and next season to transition with the town to either hire a

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consultant come up with their own proposal that they could get funded or grants or whatever because the wheels of the town just move too slow to catch up. Okay. >> So, that would keep them with sort of what they have now, minus the lawn. And

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uh there's a beautiful meadow when it's grown. I don't know if it's been mowed yet or not. High bank road over Bass River on the Dennis side about a hundred yards on the right hand side just before you get to the four-way intersection is probably a quarter acre of a beautiful

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meadow when it's growing. It's not there anymore. >> And they mow it about twice a year. That you only mow it twice a year. So that's a good example of I think what the town wants and yeah you wouldn't be able to walk there. Um you there if there's a place to go you can have a path but you

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have to have a destination. So to me that's middle ground that they can continue to take care of the area until somebody else can. That would be my suggestion. That's all. >> Okay. Thank you Mark. >> Anyone else? >> Yes sir. >> Yeah. Go ahead.

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Paul Grimble, 25 Flint Lock Way. I'd like to endorse that and second it. My suggestion, I mean, you've been able to make >> Wonder if you can identify yourself, sir. >> So, I'll do it again. >> Yeah. >> Paul Grimble, 25 Flint Lock Way. >> Sorry, >> Zack. Everybody get that?

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>> We're very tight in Flintlock Way, as you can tell. Uh, in all seriousness, that is a fabulous proposal. This is a beneficent act of stewardship. And why you'd want to stop it, I don't quite know. So I would suggest you adopt that interim acceptance while the town brings

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forward a plan for the meadow. >> Thank you. >> I just have a question of Britney. Um would would the commission be able to um bring a plan forward to the town? >> Yeah.

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>> For this area. Yeah. So it could it could fall to us to do that. Anyone else in the audience? Anyone on Zoom? Okay. Nobody I don't see anybody. Any other comments or questions?

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>> Yeah, I do. Um I I appreciate um what what Mark said. I I think in in um I don't know what word, but I mean since 2012 you've been doing this Vista pruning. Um, I'd be receptive to

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addressing the Vista pruning. It looks like you uh in your proposal, you might have just summarized uh what you received from Save a Tree and I would suggest if that we if I

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would like to see a proposal from Save a Tree on the on the method used. I I see that you recited it as best as possible here, but it would be great to get their proposal before us. um before we vote on it, I think would

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be best to to see. >> We wouldn't anything different than we've done for the last 14 years. >> Oh, yeah. I know. I It's just good to get stuff in writing and and and if this and if this is acceptable, you know, that that could be continued,

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but and then we address the meadow area separately >> being done by the city or whatever by the town. Um, I just think we have to look at the Vista pruning. Um, but I feel comfortable if I saw the proposal from Save a Tree. That's all I'm trying to say.

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>> Provided them with your >> Oh, do we have it >> your guidelines? >> Okay. >> Well, but we're really talking about I was going to ask if you have any of the original papers from 2012, >> actual copies. >> Well, I have >> other than your summary >> in your

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>> Well, not mine. >> You just had the emails that were going back and forth. Unfortunately, we never really don't have anything else. I just the old um regulations >> things were not done with the formality, I think, back. >> Yeah. So, I don't >> I don't have anything in writing.

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>> The commission, >> but I found a confirmation. >> The commissioner's name was Carrie Mulun. >> She was the staff. Yeah, she was. >> And then Ed staff rather than commissioner. >> Yeah, she wasn't on the commission, but she was me at that time. But Ed was on the board at that time and I asked him

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and he does remember >> subsequent that we had where we were granted verbal approval to proceed >> is that I met out there with >> commission her I guess and um with the save a tree people and we reviewed

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together the proposed and they gave us the thumbs up say okay >> you could do pre-construction meeting too Can we require that in an RDA? >> We want to hear from the person doing the work whether it's in writing. >> I have a question about that. You have

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save and I I've used Savatry and I know they do great jobs, but are they wetland professionals? Is that some sort of certification that they have to have? >> I don't know if they are. >> Okay. All right. Do you happen to know

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>> or they have trees? I think they have the highest credentials of the type of work that they do on Cape God, but >> well, >> yeah, they're certified arborists, but not I don't know about wetlands experience. >> I mean, it's certified arist we're not going into the wetlands. I get you are

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>> I understand all the thing is again I I I don't want to repeat myself. >> I think that there are things that need to be adhered to >> that h that weren't necessary in the past. I think Mark's proposal is a pretty good one. Um,

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but as I said, there isn't anybody that can come forward um with a proposal to do something on town land where they mow the property. It just doesn't it doesn't pass this commission for very good reason. Uh we had a couple of situations like that where the people I think in

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the goodness of the heart they wanted to do it but they had to be told you can't do that. Okay. It's just part not part of the the regulation allows that. Um this is town property you know um neighbors people have taken it upon

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themselves just with all goodness of heart to to do it but this is a time of change it has to be approached I think in a different way and if we need to buy some time in terms of maybe approving a portion of it with other provisals like it can't be mowed then that might be a

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way to to to buy some time as far as it's concerned >> like I said before >> we have a whole year to come up with a wonderful meadow proposal >> if we could just do it once. >> Yeah. But during that time, remember, if if something like this happens, it can't

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be mowed anymore, >> right? >> You only a couple times. >> So, it's up to the commission to decide how they would like to proceed. >> Ellie, >> I I think we have two issues here. And and I [clears throat] think um on the

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first issue, let's not, you know, confuse the mowing with the vista pruning. The vista pruning is is is really important and I applaud you for for doing it. Um you must have a proposal from this company and I I would I would

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>> Well, they they won't give me a final price until >> Well, do it. >> It's been around $2,200 a year, $2,300 a year. >> No, it's not the price. It's just we need to know that they're sensitive to the wetlands. I I I don't think they're a wetland certified uh company.

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>> I trust you will have every confidence if if you could it be that >> we get permission under the >> proposal that they have to come you >> and talk to you about it what they're going to do rather than >> they could they could definitely submit

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something in writing for like the proposed work with detail. I'm sure they do that for a lot of the work they do. Maybe he just hasn't given you one because you do the same thing every year, but maybe he could provide us one with some details. >> They've also been instructed not to just do a flat cut across the top and to

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follow a natural >> Exactly. That would be in there >> of that nature. So, so I would motion that we postpone this discussion um until the next meeting where they would have a proposal or a representative from the company to discuss the vista pruning so that we could make a decision that

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night and at the same time discuss the options and the time uh schedule for the rest of the area which involves the mode area. We may we may need to separate this into

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two parts. Might maybe the vista pruning is continued by them and and then we have the town manage the land. I don't know. >> I have a question about that. >> I don't think we know. >> I'm not sure we can approach it that way. >> I I I uh I don't think RDAs can be

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continued. So, so if for example the the applicant decided to withdraw this particular >> um item and come up with another proposal having to do with what we're talking about, would that be a viable

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avenue to get to something? >> Yeah, that would be fine. And we could wave all the fees if you do that. But um >> yeah, you can't continue an RDA under the Wetlands Protection Act. There's a 21-day deadline. >> I think you know what I'm trying to do. I don't want to hold them tight.

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>> The [clears throat] rigomear all gets in the way of it all. >> I mean, I I think if >> if it sounds like we're mostly comfortable with um as Mark proposed,

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approving an RDA for the um the Vista pruning. Um, and hopefully we you folks can work with the town and we can come up with a plan for moving

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forward in the future. Um, I think our sticking point is just the mowing. So, if you guys are okay with not mowing, can that be a condition of the RDA? >> Yeah, that can be a condition. >> So, I think we can

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>> the only thing only in a practicality way, >> as one of our neighbors pointed out, is that they walk their dogs in there every day. >> And if there are beautiful flowers growing up a foot or so or more, that makes it less likely that they'll be

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able to use that resource. But I guess that's, you know, >> it's our hope that >> I'm fine with I'm fine with the meadow thing and I like what Mark brought up. I think that's a very practical way of looking at it tonight. Things are still

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growing. The vista is disappearing every week more. So, we're going to waste this whole year in regard to our being outdoors there enjoying it. >> So, could I have a motion um reflecting uh some of the suggestions that have been made? Um

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>> so, you'd be Yeah. >> Is that correct? >> You can either Are we voting on the RDA or on permission? >> Which one do you want? the RDA or >> or the general, you know, permission to access and use the land. Let's do the RDA first. So, you can either issue a

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negative two and three or a positive one, which means they need to file an NOI. >> You need to what? >> A positive one would be they need to file an NOI. And a negative two and three would be with all your conditions you talked about is they can under the Wetlands

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Protection Act, you could permit the work. >> Okay. Would that would that cover the mowing issue? >> You can condition it to include no mowing since it's not in the proposal. Yeah. >> -2. So, >> do you want me to make >> it would be it would be a motion to

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approve the RDA with a negative two. Is that >> just to issue a negative two? Yeah. >> A negative two. We could explain in a second. Isn't that >> just Yeah, >> negative is a good thing. >> Negative is a A negative is a positive. [laughter] >> Just to confuse everybody. Okay. Yeah,

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>> I >> Oops. >> I'm willing to, as I >> said a little bit ago, that if you do approve the Vista proving with the caveat that it's not going to go forward until you approve the plan of the of the

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>> ar that's what we're trying to do. >> In other words, >> they're doing a negative. >> I don't know the motion. I think that's >> Yeah, go ahead, Brad. >> Agreed. >> Bradford, go for it. I move that we uh issue a negative two and three uh with

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special conditions that a um maintenance plan be submitted to conservation staff prior to the con uh pre-construction hearing. Um, and that

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no mowing occur. And >> it's only good for one year. >> Good for one year. There we go. [clears throat] >> Motion's been made. Is there a second? >> What was the pre-construction meeting consisted of of who who would be at

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that? >> It would be uh >> with the contract >> like me and the contractor. >> Contractor. >> Yeah. And they would submit their plan prior to that. That's a win-win. Yeah, >> that would be my second. [laughter] >> Second.

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>> That. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I >> I wetlands Protection Act. And we're saying in this case, it does not with these special conditions and so it's a negative on the determination but that's

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a good thing for you because that means you get your your project is approved >> it it's weird >> approved >> regulatory phrasing >> for one year do should I have the save a tree people propose do a proposal to present to you

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>> please email me a proposal >> okay very good >> and then we'll have to also have them schedule a pre-construction meeting with me before they do the work. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Astroturf. That's always good.

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>> You're going to you're going to need a notice of intent for that one. >> Okay. So, I >> I'll also follow up with you because I think the town needs some other forms and perhaps

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um the select board. Yeah. So I will have to follow up with the town administrator and let you know what the next step is. >> You don't wanting for the next thing you mean? >> No, for the approval for this because you're doing work on town property and the commission has granted you permission, but the select board also

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has to grant you their permission. >> Okay. >> So I'll follow up with you >> go to that meeting too. >> Uh it depends if it's on the consent agenda or the regular agenda. So I will I find out and let you know. I thought for sure you were going to ask me to mow other parcels of town property before I

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let [laughter] >> do such a good job. >> Send send in a contract proposal. >> Yeah, we didn't we're not going to do a second. >> Thank you for your time. >> All right. So, we'll get that done over to you.

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>> Circular file. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you guys. >> Thanks for coming. [clears throat] We >> have to sign something for them. >> Yeah, that's an that's a >> DOA.

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When I retire soon >> to do my homework on request for determinations. Thank you for your help. >> Good [cough and clears throat] effort. You're gone. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. So,

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>> I don't think the dogs really care. >> The next item on the agenda, >> is >> Thank you guys. Would you mind taking your conversation to the hallway? We have other agenda items. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> No, not at all. >> Thank you.

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is uh continue notice of intent SC 832538 Shoref Front Consulting to Blue Rock Road Realy Trust 166 and 172 Blue Rock Road proposed bulkhead and stairs reconstruction with

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new landing and coastal beach coastal bank land containing shellfish river for area and land subject to coal Thank you for your help. >> Welcome. Um, can you hear me? Okay.

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>> Not really, but >> could I ask Mr. Kagnet is here behind me. He's last of these three. Could we just take care of him first and then we'll go back to me? >> That's uh >> for this one. >> Yes. Number 2534 for >> y >> 14 compass.

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>> Yeah, we can do that. >> Okay. So this will be here SE 832534 consulting for Anthony and Jane Kana 14 Compass Drive proposed seaw wallalker reconstruction elevation and relocation of fill and land under the ocean land containing

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shellfish riverfront area land subject to coastal storm flowage in the buffer zone to the salt marsh and after the fact filing for a patio and deck in the buffer zone to a salt marsh and land subject at the coastal store. >> Um, I'm not sure why we're here. Uh,

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>> you didn't get the planting plan in time last time. >> Ah, okay. So, that so that was all supplied. I think you have everything you need. I'm just going to be quiet. >> Okay. So, you're good. >> I'm good. >> All right. Anybody have a >> Oh, and the and the site plan wasn't

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stamped. So last time you were reviewing this is the final plan with all the revisions that you requested have been made. >> So this is the one where this seaw wall is being relocated. Seawward in one part and landird in the other.

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>> Are we good with it? See what the commission has to say. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anybody questions, comments? >> Nope. Nope. >> Jack? >> Nope. >> I have nothing. Britney, >> I'm all set. Thank you. I would make sure to include DMF conditions and

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special conditions we spoke about last time where that the patio be dry laid, annual monitoring reports, um the stones that you propose to remove initially to remain in place and that's it. [snorts]

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>> Okay. So, we can vote on >> what is it? >> I move 10, right? Do I need a motion? I guess, right? >> Yeah. >> So, I move that we approve uh this project with special conditions.

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>> I'll I'll second and thank you very much for the revisions. >> Of course. >> Okay. Jack, you all set? >> All set. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay. Well, good. Thank you so much for coming in.

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>> Thank you. >> Thank you. I hope you enjoyed the previous conversation [laughter] >> live discussions here. >> All right, we'll see you. >> The Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. It's going to be the one on the bottom. >> Okay. So, now we're going to go back to

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Oh yeah. Wait a second. There. >> Here you go. >> What's that? >> A lot of work. >> I know. I know. >> It seems so simple at the end. >> I know. It's like we Yeah,

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>> that's what we want. >> Simple last. There's three things you could check. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> What now? >> Please. >> So, you're on your own.

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>> I am. Is it something I said? >> Nobody's there to help you. [laughter] >> It's not there. >> Welcome to an evening with Shorefront Consulting. >> And now we'll we'll go back to SC 832538. I've read it in the record. So if we can

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proceed. >> Yes. Okay. So Mark Burgess with Shorefront Consulting representing the uh Fidelis and um Stover to the south 172. Um so the last time we were here we had the third party consultant. We

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reviewed his report. We talked about the balance of performance standards and regulations and all of that. So I revised the plan. You should have a stamped version and all of that. Um, the revisions that I made to the plan were basically I definitely in the section

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moved the bulkhead landward about three feet and I put specific notes in there that regardless of what happens between now and when the bulkhead is built, that bulkhead goes right up against the base of the bank, right as close as possible to the base of the bank. We lowered it a

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foot. We added a fiber roll on top as Britney suggested. Um, and Lynn supplied her the famous uh planting plan and and monitoring plan and everything else. So, I hope we've addressed everything from the last meeting and uh we can move

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forward. >> Okay. Um, comments from the commission, please. >> Just a picky one. I' you usually put on your your plans that construction access shall be the

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shall be via the access route shown on the plan and directly over the applicant's property. And you usually show that on this one. I couldn't find it. >> Oh, it was supposed to be a dashed line, but >> maybe you do. I couldn't see. You have a lot of And thank you again for the revisions and the notations and all that

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stuff that we appreciate. >> You're correct. Um, well, as you might be aware, so the the project to the south >> Yeah. >> was done entirely from the water with the exception of the stairs. >> Yeah, that's why I thought you were

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probably doing it from a barge or something. Okay. >> I mean, if I drew a dashed line around the whole thing, it would come down the stairs and to the top of the eroded scarp area where they're going to fill and then out into the waterway. And um,

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>> no need for machines on the bank when you're doing the stairs. It's just hand work. >> No, that's got to be hand work. In fact, what I would I don't know who's going to do this work, but what's coming into play now more are these diamond peers. Are you familiar with those? >> Yeah,

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>> Britney is are you guys? >> Is there another word for them? >> Very briefly, they're blocks about this big. And they just rest on the ground. There's no digging. And you pound these pipes about this diameter and about four feet long. Yep. and they anchor into the

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bank. So unlike a sauna tube or unlike digging and they use them for stairs all the time. So um I didn't draw it that way but I think that would be the way to go myself and that that's hand hand machine put the post frame it you're

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done. Um >> and I wouldn't even care if you use the condition to to put diamond peers but but you know different contractors have different tools and toys. So >> would that change before it actually for some reason with

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the contractor you might get go back to a different method? >> Well, there's one contractor I know that's building a a a dock and deck for me in Dennis and they're just using the diamond peers because it's the better way to go. So you could put a condition

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to say diamond peers could be used at at the applicant's option if you want or we would just tell you at the pre at the pre-construction meeting but it's a less invasive technique so I it would be I don't see why it wouldn't be okay. Um

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but but yeah at any rate land the plane um no no equipment on the bank other than hand tools and people to string line and frame. >> Correct. Anything else? >> I do have a couple of nitpicks on the

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plan as well. Um, you still have this fiber roll detail which I'm unclear what that's for because you have this fiber roll photo and they don't match. So, what's going on at the for the return? What are you doing there? >> So, that's kind of a picture of what it looks like from the surface and the

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detail is how it shows how they're anchored. >> So, this there's going to be three here. Yeah, there should be three there. >> There's one. >> Uh I think there's more under under the zigzag that you can't see, but >> Oh, you mean on your plan? >> On my Yeah, I show there's three rows on

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the plan. Those are the green the green lines. >> Okay. >> Yep. And then the >> Okay. So, what is this for? >> It's just to give you an idea of what it's going to look like when it's done. >> Okay. I think I understand because there's you're putting jute over the fiber rolls. Mhm.

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>> That's shown in the I thought that's shown in a detail, too. >> And also, your detail still says you're planting with beach grass, which we're not. >> If we could get rid of that. >> Um, I think there was a miscommunication with the we didn't receive a monitoring

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and maintenance plan for the fiber rolls. That's what we were asking because we were looking for you to have being including some nourishment to keep the rolls covered or the roll covered. >> The rolls. Yeah. I uh

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>> or the one or the one at the top. >> I read Lynn's uh plan briefly, but I forgot whether in there whether she included to do that or not. >> Oh. [clears throat] plant fiber rolls.

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>> Those are the ones that the salt metal grass those are the returns for the return on the north because that's down by the water. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Is plantings be monitored for three

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years with reports submitted? 90% survival. That applies to the plantings. Well, applies to all of them, but more so intended for the plantings above above the wall as she's shown there. >> So, we still are not, just to be clear,

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you're still not proposing any nourishment to make sure the fiber rolls stay covered. >> We can do that. I don't mind nourishing the fiber rolls. That's a very small amount. That's that's doable. >> Yeah, that's what we were looking for. So like the monitoring and maintenance

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plan to make sure the fiber rolls live their longest life, are maintained, are covered so they're not degraded consistent consistently by UV. >> Something like that. >> Can we do that as special conditions? >> It's up to the fiber roll shall remain

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covered. Um you can just say shall remain covered. That way whenever they're uncovered, you can do what you have to do. You don't want you don't say 50% uncovered because nature just screws with that. So, you know, the goal here is to maintain the fiber rules. That's in the client's best interest. That's in

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everybody's best interest. So, >> yeah. >> I mean, >> I'm sorry. What's >> in a motion that we would we would specify that the fiber roll should remain covered? >> Yep. And yeah with planting reports

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according to the plan I mean monitor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The planting is is on the mitigation plan. I mean >> the salt meadow cord grass. Yeah. So so covered with remain planted. I don't know. Just want to make sure it's per the mitigation.

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>> Yeah. So I mean the plants are monitored once a year but the fiber roll array is sensitive right. I mean, someone should be out there more than once a year monitoring it to make sure it's covered, doesn't need maintenance, and if it needs maintenance, it should be outlined. It's my opinion. Obviously,

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you guys don't need to go with what I say, but that's what I would recommend. I >> I didn't hear. What are these made of? >> These are the core logs. So, there's I think you're proposing high density. >> Normally, for that area, you'd use high density. If you really really really

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wanted to plant in them, you'd use a low density roll, but they will degrade twice as fast. Um, >> you are planting with them, >> huh? >> You are planting in them. >> The rolls on the return at the base. >> Yeah, you're proposing to plant spartina

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in them. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But you can do it with high density. It's just harder to do. >> Yeah. It's just difficult. >> Yeah. >> And still plant. >> And still plant. Yeah. Okay. It it's the same as what they did for the north, the return to the north. And I don't think

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the north return was maintained at all since it's been put in. >> Yeah, that's the point of the monitoring and maintenance. >> Agreed. Um I walked on top of those and those were high density. They're now pretty squishy. That's a scientific term, but they could very well, we're

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not going to need them anymore, but when they get really squishy like that, they actually could be replanted much easier. So yes, we want to maintain the fibbrals. fiber roll shall be maintained. They shall remain covered and plants. I don't know that you're going to get somebody down there more than once a year. Um, it just depends on

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the time of year, too. So, I'm okay with once a year and you just replant as it goes. Now, time of year is considered spring is usually a good time. I think you're more a plant person than me, but

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you can't do it now. It's too hot. And in the fall, if you do them and they get whacked for the winter, they don't have time to get going. So my >> Are you talking about planting? >> Yeah, >> the planting. Yeah, there's >> when you go down there to take a look at it. I would look at it every spring so you have time to fix it while it's still

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cool and give it a chance during the summer so it's hearty for the winter. That's that's >> Yeah. As long as it's We require monitoring reports to have photos from the growing season. So as long as you're in the growing season, we don't know when we don't care when you go out to monitor. >> Oh, okay. you. So, you don't need the

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monitoring report at a certain time of year. >> It needs to be submitted every fall for the year, but the photos submitted with it need to be from when the plants are growing so that we can see what it looks like when they're in the >> Okay. >> growing season. >> Well, either myself or Lynn will

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probably do that. >> Could anybody make a motion out of all of that? [laughter] >> [gasps] >> So, it it's more so about wording the special condition for the maintenance of the fiber roll.

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Yeah. >> Than anything else. Um, [laughter] >> I feel like Chad Adam has a really good description in in these and their special condition >> or >> for uh maintenance of fiber rolls and

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how it's to be maintained. >> Yeah, we always make them submit something so that we don't have to put it in a special condition. >> Yeah. I need to inspect that or something. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's just like specific [clears throat] so that someone anyone could read it and do it. So, like the

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homeowner can make sure that they either do it themselves or hire someone to do the specific maintenance needed for the fiber roll. >> Um, >> well, I'm happy to to draft something up and email it to Britney and she can review it and then that way she doesn't have to think about it and if she likes

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them, she can include them as the special conditions. happy to help you that way. >> Well, it would then just be part of the application that we're approving. We wouldn't put it in a special condition, >> but it's up to the commission >> what you prefer.

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>> Well, I I can't we move to to approve this subject to those special conditions and and then the correction on the on the plantings above the fiber rolls. Can't we do that or did I just do it?

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>> You just did. >> What's that? But we're not still clear about what exactly the special condition is for the fiber rolls. >> What is typically a special condition? >> Special condition would be one the fiber rolls have to be maintained. Fiber the fiber rolls have to stay covered. If

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they become uncovered, they have to be recovered and the plants are maintained uh really for the life of the fiber rolls. But the point that was missing is we spent an entire hearing last time talking about the beach and how it needs

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to be nourished and the compensatory nourishment for the roll on top of the wall would be providing that sand to the beach and that's not included. Um so just keeping the rolls covered is that good enough or should we be adding some amount of

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sand every couple of years? you know my thoughts on sand. >> What >> I said, you know what my thoughts are on sand and and I just don't think it's a good idea enough to keep the fiber rolls covered. That's fine. That's a couple of yards. I'm I'm not worried about that. But any more than that into the system

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is is it's just going to end up where it's not supposed to be where the town's going to have to pay to take it back. Should we um propose a discontinuation of this item until such language is developed that describes what um >> until the applicant submits a monitoring

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and maintenance plan? [laughter] >> That's what I would I would like to see, but the commission has to agree. So I I think what Britney is asking

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or Britney's desire is that we have a a a monitoring and maintenance plan specifically for the fiber rolls that uh determines how much nourishment would be placed annually

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um so that we don't have to make that special condition. So, if Mark, if you're willing to develop that and we continue that to the next hearing or um

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either way, um am I going to be around? I think I'm here. Well, no, I don't know. This could be depending on how the next hearing goes. This would be it with you guys. So, >> well, >> I could also revise the plan and I can put the work limit on there and I can put fiber roll maintenance notes on the

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plan. I'm happy to do that and I can get that to you in a couple of days. >> I would just say approve it and have Britney approve the >> language. >> So if if he revises the plan and puts it on the plan, are you comfortable with

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>> are we going to include any nourishment or not? >> Specify a certain amount of yards, but we do want to say that the fiber rolls have to remain covered. And when I say covered, we're only talking about a veneer because the plants have got to get up through that to be able to to

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grow. So, it's not a lot, a yard or two. >> When do we reach the tipping point for nourishment? I mean, is it having the fiber rolls covered isn't enough or um >> No, it's just that I am not sure, you know, we had that whole peer review and

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that's what, you know, he he evaluated the erosion rates and >> in in this scenario, I just >> feel like we need to be adding you can see everywhere else on the river where there's a bulkhead, there's no more coastal beach. >> I know. So that's a whole separate thing then other than I mean that's separate

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than the fiber rolls. >> It's the same because here we have the roll above the bulkhead which is now the only sand source to the beach. We're replacing all of the natural sand putting a wall and we have this little opportunity. >> He has so he he has to monitor then it's

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more you can't it's not a it's not a subjective decision. It's some kind of professional monitoring then. Right. >> Yeah. So yeah, that could be an option too. So you're saying instead of deciding the amount of nourishment now, it be monitored and the nourishment be

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decided as needed to keep the beach elevation. >> Do you have somebody that can do that? >> Do what? >> Monitor uh any erosion. Um or I think that's what we're concerned about losing the beach.

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>> Yeah. Well, I'm concerned about putting more sand on the beach because it's it's not going to end up it won't end up in that channel. Um, it'll end up >> I know. Apparently, it's a resource area though. >> It's a resource area. We're not worried about the channel.

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>> I know. And we spent a lot of time talking about the balance of we're allowed to put a bulkhead, but then it affects the beach. Nourishment affects other resource areas that are not part of this. In my opinion, nourishment negatively affects other resource areas that aren't part of this project. And

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I'm that's why I'm I'm not keeping the fiber rolls covered. Absolutely no big deal. That's a yard or two. Whenever nature decides to take it, somebody can go down there with a wheelbarrow, you know, but ongoing nourishment. Before Britney, before you were here and I

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possibly when Kelly was here, this board was very very cognizant of beach nourishment projects and in fact would deny them in cases where the too much nourishment would enter the channel and fill in fill in channels because then the town has to spend uh money to

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maintain channels. So they were very cognizant and very sensitive of that. Just let me show you this. I took a Google Earth. You could probably bring it If you're gonna still talk, can you take the microphone with you? >> Can you take the microphone with you? If you're going to chat while you're

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roaming, >> I'm trying to be a movie star here. >> If you can zoom out to where you get the the highbank bridge and the basin about there and pan down a little bit other way.

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>> You said that. Uh, >> zoom out a little bit more. Yeah, it's your program is so much better than mine. So, this aluvial fan here is the result of the jetting of water through here.

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Now, when they open this up, it helped calm this down. But now, a lot more water goes through here and the current is huge. If you've boed through here, it's six or eight knots at when the tide is running. So, any sand that comes out isn't going to stay here. It's going to get blasted down to where the velocity

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drops and it's going to drop out. I've been on this river most of my life, but if you notice lately around No, you're okay. Um, around here. Which year is this picture taken? >> This year. >> Try going back when it show when it's at

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low tide. It's easier to maybe um maybe >> so the channel here Yeah, this is where that's where the fiber rolls are. That's Yeah, the channel right here has been moving

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closer and closer to this shoreline where the channel markers are. It's really narrow right here. Um, this one doesn't show it, but some might. Yeah. Well, you can see where it's a little bit deeper. So, this sediment and this sediment is all changing in here. What

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happens is when these banks erode now that sediment is just going to get jetted out and deposited here and it's going to cause this area to get worse. It's already very shallow here at low tide. Um I had an I had a 19T boat and

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it would almost bottom here, but then way north of the Bass River Bridge, this where this aluvial fan is. Okay, that's supposed to be the channel and it's my motor hit at low tide on a

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19 ft boat. So, you can see that this gets blasted out and then when the where you have open area and the velocity drops, the sand drops out. So, my point is is that you can nourish this beach all you want. It's not going to stay there. It's going to go here or down there and just create a bigger problem

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somewhere else. So the the idea of having the bulkhead lower is that the storms more severe storms the bank can still provide a sediment source and it's high enough and protected where it with a baseline of the bulkhead where you can repair it. So

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that is the balancing act of performance standards and conditions. These are always these are always that way. So I'm against n actual nourishment here for that reason. However, keeping the

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fiber rolls covered is certainly a wise thing to do and it's that's not enough to um impact the system, I believe. >> So, Britney, what is your rationale for providing more sand as far as the way

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that it moves up and down the river >> for maintaining the coastal beach so that it doesn't erode due to a man-made structure? That's my rationale. I don't I don't want the coastal >> a single uh point issue, not a system issue. >> That's correct. Yeah.

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>> And I don't see the there is no argument. There is no data on the system except for the folks that have lived there and seen it or the people have dredged. >> None has been provided. No. And I I don't see how we could actually

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um make a decision that is really um informed unless we depend on people that have lived on that stretch. I would argue that you're a little the way the sand

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moves. You said, "Oh, it goes thrusting out across." No, it goes drifting down by the shoreline or whatever depending on the storms and the tides and the time of year of the storms and so forth. And

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we're not there. And so the town is going to be concerned about dredging, that's for sure. But I I just don't see how we could make a decision informed except for based on the inclination of folks that have there's no other places

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or few other places down along that shore that have that sand, right? It's all that kind of beach. >> Um at the moment, this property and everyone north of it have a have a beach at some point of of a not necessarily

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high tide beach, but a low tide beach. They're also not protected properties. Agreed. >> So they this would if you put more sand there, it would maintain it just like those. >> Say again. >> If you put more sand on the beach, it

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would just add to the beach type areas north of there. >> If it goes north. Yeah. >> So it does in fact impact and maintain some of the beach along there. And there are what's the kind of

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um what shall I say cohogs or I don't know what >> some shellfish >> shellfish that are along there. Do you know >> well we did the shellfish survey. There wasn't I'm not going to say in abundance but there was some shellfish there. Yeah. >> So we're interested in maintaining that.

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>> So in that sense I would argue that we should probably go ahead and add some sand out there. Well, if we did I did look at >> because you've got that whole area. >> Yeah, >> that's the that's the beginning point

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maybe for having sand. If you reduce it, it's going to make it go back up and have fewer lands. So, we >> Yeah, the the property to the south had a bulkhead >> that was functioning and there wasn't any high tide beach there. Yeah, >> agreed. I get I get all that. And Indian

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lands across the way is eroding faster than anything. So it's it's putting way more sand into the system uncontrollably if you will >> on both sides. >> Both sides. Yeah. >> So I did look at what he uh Mr.

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McCormack McCormack um presented and he presented two lidar profiles and very rough calculations. I I scaled off of his >> I noticed >> his graph. >> What? >> Never mind.

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I will say best available data. CZM doesn't do shoreline transexs up here or anything. So you really don't know. It's really a guess. It's an educated >> Yeah, same thing. >> So I I scaled off of this and I come up with the the difference in the profile

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in 10 years is about three feet give or take. The horizontal distance is 10 feet give or take and it's over I said 130 feet 136 feet of shoreline that works out to um

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151 cubic yards in 10 years. So 15 yards a year. It isn't a huge amount. >> There we go. >> I know. There we go. >> Yeah, that was the data provided. >> It isn't a huge amount. I I my personal opinion as a as me, you know, in my

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experience on the river, my personal opinion is I don't I don't see that um I I see that sand going somewhere else that is going to hurt another area. However, if that's what the regulations and that's what makes you feel comfortable, now the question is how do

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you get it there and do you do it every year? Um which is kind of a pain in the butt for this location. sand had basically would have to be um well when they fill the bulkhead and they do the filling of the scarps and all that. The

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project to the south he used a conveyor system, snaked it through the yard and then moved it over as he did catapulted it over the bank and rad it out. Okay, that's fine for one time. That was 200 yards that he used to fill that. Um that

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is a royal pain in the butt to do every year. And to try to do it from a barge is probably even worse. >> And there be a trigger point that uh is hit. So if it goes below a certain point

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that uh nourishment is added. Uh so it might not need to be every year, but maybe it's every two or three years or whatever it might be. So I could set a trigger point based on the 15 yards based on the 15 yards a

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year. Um, I could figure out I could almost do it now, but I don't want to take up the time. I could figure out like a three-year drop based on 15 yards, and that could be the trigger point. And then you know at that point you got to put 45 yards and that might give you the the squeeze

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for the juice or the juice for the squeeze or >> well might make it worth it >> given that we don't know what the storm's going to be like and so forth and increasing height of water climate change which

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>> I keep bringing up um that seems like a threeyear I think that would be an appropriate kind of thing to do this that threeyear wandering >> and I wouldn't do it now. I would wait until the beach drops because maybe the

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beach doesn't drop. We don't know. >> Yeah, >> that's why I like a trigger point as far as >> nourishment goes. Um for those exact reasons that you're not overnourishing um but it it hits that

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>> trigger point to say, "Hey, we need some more nourishment here." To establish that, you need monitoring, which is goes back to Britney's concern. >> I've always liked trigger points because it more closely mimics the natural erosion process and it's not just willy-nilly blind putting sand on the

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beach or a certain amount that [clears throat] might not be enough. I've seen it go both ways where y >> you haven't put enough or you put too much. So, I love trigger points. >> Why don't we make a motion to add it to that effect? Well, are we going to continue for the

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plan to be revised or >> Yeah, I modification. >> I think I would make a motion to continue for the revi for those revisions and for the maintenance plan if that's okay. Sorry, Mark. >> Sounds like a motion for me. >> Yeah. >> Second.

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>> I'll second that. >> All right. We're going to continue. All in favor? >> I >> I >> And what date is that? is the 20th or the September se >> third August 20th or September 3rd.

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>> I know we already voted and all but I I kind of look at this as a lab, you know, sort of a lab a lab experiment like because because looking at the third party review, Mark Mark did implement as best he could and then the the you know

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the third party review said then you need to monitor the fiber roles. I think I think he's did all that. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah, it's good. >> What do you want for >> 20th or September? >> 20th.

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>> August 20th. >> Did uh Bradford made that motion? >> I made the motion. >> Did you get seconded? >> I second it. >> I think you seconded it. >> I'll second. >> We can confirm via tape.

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>> Unanimous. >> Yes. Yep. >> I don't think I actually said I, but I >> know. >> All right. >> So, just the the plan revision tiny note that I made was just to take the beach

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grass off the fiber roll detail. Um, >> what do you want to plant it with? Then >> Lynn provided a planting plan. It's just on your site plan. It just contradicts with this planting plan. >> They say mitigation plan.

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We're good with that. >> Yeah, he's got the next one, too. >> All right. So, I take that off. Trigger point for three years. Maintenance plan notes on the plan and add the work limit. >> Perfect. >> Thank you, Ellie. That goes by myself and and the and the other engineer that stamps the plan and and you catch it

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all. And I appreciate that. I I kind of bust you a little bit, but >> No, no, that's fine. >> I appreciate it. >> I No life. Yeah. Okay. >> I appreciate it. Were you a teacher in a previous life? >> No, I worked in construction for 30 years. >> Commercial building though.

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>> You must have reviewed a lot of things because you're very good at it. I mean that as a compliment. >> Thank you. >> Mayflower will be next. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Mayflower is next. >> Signing this. >> Not yet. >> Oh yeah. >> So we don't we continued. So Mayflower is next. We don't sign.

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>> Nothing to sign here. >> We just did Blue Rock Road. We just did Blue Rock Road, but we continued it, so we don't need to sign it. >> Sure. Yeah, get rid of it. >> It's getting heavy. >> Which one is >> Pass that down?

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>> Just put it on the pile. >> I'm not I'm not familiar with what happens at the end of the road here. >> Gets piled up. >> It gets piled up. >> We're almost through this. >> Yes, we are, aren't we? >> All right. And then we have um >> Mayflower

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>> SE 832540 shortfront consulting for Jason and Tina. >> Here's one >> 143 Mayflower Terrace proposed reconstruction of a mall further land and new fiber roll array and riverfront

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area coastal beach coastal bank and land subject to coastal storm flowage. Mark Burgess again for the liies. Um, another bulkhead project. Feel like a

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broken record, but uh um so this one, everyone's a little bit different. [laughter] This one was actually approved as previous it was approved previously to put the bulkhead back exactly where it is now. And that was approved as part of

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the dock rebuilding project. the applicant chose not to do it for whatever reason and um and now would like would like to do it and I think in that time frame the beach has probably eroded back another another foot or so behind the wall. Um

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>> yeah, it's not doing anything. Um, so this proposal moves the new bulkhead, the replacement bulkhead, no higher than that one, whatever. You know, I I know what elevation it is, but no higher than that. And it moves it as far landward as

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possible. Um, Lynn provided a planting plan that includes plants along the top of the bulkhead and then at the southern end. Yes. So the the north end there where I put the stakes. So that the bulkhead there is supposed to go behind those

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rocks. Those rocks are actually on the applicant's property. Um, okay. B is an A, but we're but the bulkhead would go behind them, not in front of them, and just keep the rocks there. So that's your kind of transitional return on the north end. On the south end, there is

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some erosion there. Um, over the years, I think I've been with this property for what, close to eight or 10 years. um that hasn't gotten extremely worse, but it's still there. And um eventually it's going to cause as as we say all the

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time, it's going to cause slippage. You're going to lose bank stabilization and and plants that are already there and all that. So you want to button it up before it gets too far. So, what's proposed from that stake to the well, maybe one more stake, but to the

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orange um stake that you can see to the far left is a fiber roll return. Um, let me see how long it is. I forgot. 20 20 feet.

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And the bulkhead is probably a a good uh more than 20 feet. The bulkhead stops more than 20 feet from the property line. The bulkhead's in the same footprint that it is now except we add an angled return at the end of it. So

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technically not uh not really expanding the bulkhead and we're moving it landward and then we're dealing with the fiber roll south of it, but we're not proposing a bulkhead all the way across. Um, other than that, it's kind of all the it's very similar to a lot so many

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other projects that we've done recently. So, I'm I guess I'm going to stop there. Same protocols are in place. Um, the Lynn provided the planting plan. Um, my detail shows beach grass and the fiber rolls as I'm looking at it. If Britney

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caught that, so that may need to be changed. Um, other than that, I'll just open it to questions. >> Okay. All right. Uh, any comments from anybody? >> Um, the the only thing I had to comment

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on was um I don't know how else to say technical term here. You you squished up the bulkhead as much as you could, but you still require fill. I'm looking at the detail fill and scarf behind wall with compatible material and plant with American beach grass. So, do you have I

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think you do. Do you have a quantity of how much fill you you need to bring in? >> I think I estimated it's not a lot. Um, >> I couldn't find it either. That was one of my questions, too. >> If you look down right above section AA elevation, it says proposed fill behind

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bulkhead is five plus cubic yards. >> Very small amount. >> And that's more or less based on AutoCAD. AutoCAD's an approximate >> calculated from the contours. Yeah. >> Oh, it's at the bottom. I take what I do is I draw what's called a polyline on the section of the area that I want to

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fill. >> And then that's an area. >> Yeah. >> I get square foot and I multiply it by the length. >> Yeah. >> Get a volume. Simple as that. And it's it's an estimate, but >> you can pretty small. >> I don't see it. Where is it?

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>> It's below the detail in just like its own row. >> Right above section AA elevation at the bottom of the plan. >> Okay. Well, I'm looking at a different one. >> And the proposed cover over the fiber rolls is five yards.

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>> And that's initial. >> Sorry, >> it's just once at the beginning. >> Now, yeah, needs to be maintained. [sighs] Think of how much we learn through all these as we go through the process.

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Think of how many different color inks you have because of us. >> Well, my plotter will plot any color in the palette. But I love using color because it really helps. >> A lot of guys still do things in black and white, don't they? >> Anybody else with a question or comment?

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So uh yeah I guess um I guess would be the same kind of comments as keeping the fiber roll array covered with nourishment >> or was that is that what the cubic yards is? >> That's still behind

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>> what have to say on this one. >> Cover with compatible soil. >> She kind of has her maintenance down on the lower leftand corner. Um >> Oh, you have the same conflict. Am I looking at the wrong one? The same

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conflict on what you're covering the roles with. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I >> So that's noted. >> Okay. So, >> you're you're right when you say refer to planting, but you have to erase the beach grass comment.

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Whatever. >> Yeah, over on the on the fiber roll detail. I'll just say refer to planting plan. >> Yeah, just say that. >> Yeah, let's get rid of the loom, right? Shouldn't it just be sand? >> Yeah, this was back when I used to be able to do these things and

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>> um I'm not allowed to do it anymore. >> [laughter] >> Where's mean high water? Is this mean high? Yeah, >> the blue line. >> Oh, they're way low. >> If we're Let me look at the bank again.

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Do you know why Lynn said lom and sand over the fiber rolls instead of just sand is just to get the plantings established for the beginning. >> Where did she say that? >> On her planting plan. >> On her planting plan. If it's less than like a quarter lom, I

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guess that's fine. But there's no amount. >> Where does she say? >> It says to cover the fiber rolls with a mix of lom and sand. >> Okay. >> Um >> my plan showed five yards over the over the fiber rolls.

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>> Yeah. >> I thought the five five yards was >> both five yards over the fiber rolls and five yards for the bulkhead. Those those are both at the bottom because I remember you were asking for that. >> Yeah. in a >> five. Yeah, sorry. >> All right. >> This plan's been revised like three times since before it got to you guys.

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So, >> looked at a lot of bulkheads lately. So, >> say again, >> we've had to look at a lot of them. >> Said I pul looked at a lot of bulkheads. I was just pulling your leg. >> Yeah. No kidding. Huh. >> I haven't gotten to to Dennis yet. So, so this site, it's up to the

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commission if you want a similar maintenance plan. Um, there's more sand source all over. So, just keeping the rolls covered may be fine at this site as opposed to the other site where there's all bulkheads up and down the river. There's sand, there's some marsh, some sand, some marsh, some sand across

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the way. So, I think just keeping them covered might be sufficient here. >> Thank you. Thank you. is regular sand. >> And so yeah, >> okay with that. >> Yeah, >> if everyone.

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>> Yeah, you just have to you have to correct your note six too if you go into detail about the cover there. So take out the planted I'm going to say in accordance with the planting plan >> or the planning plan.

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>> I think there was a few spots if you could just scour it. I referenced three spots but I didn't say where they were. >> Say that again. There's a Just make sure you don't mention beach grass or planting shrubs or anything because it's

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already provided and in this detail too. >> It was there on the fiber roll detail >> in the note and in the section >> down there. >> Yeah. So, there's four spots planting area. >> I'm just going to say refer to planting plan.

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>> Yeah, that's good. [laughter] >> I got you. >> I don't have any other questions. >> So, two details. refer to planting plan note number six in a take out or and planted in accordance with the planting plan. Take out the uh the beach grass

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and >> and if you could just add a note >> maintenance notes for the fiber rolls on the plan. >> Yeah, >> I can do that. >> So, do we need to continue this receipt that was correction? >> I don't think so.

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>> Have a motion then. I move that we approve this project pending uh planned revisions as discussed. >> I'll check. Go for it. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> I

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>> Okay. So, this one's approved. >> Pardon? >> Yeah. >> One's approved. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Can go forward. >> One hearing. [laughter] One hearing. >> You weren't expecting it. No, this one this one was more straightforward than the others because it was already sort of done before. But but yeah, I'm very

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I'm very happy about that. I will uh work on that plan >> sometime between now and the weekend and um I'll get you a draft PDF to take a look at if you want >> or I just >> you can No. Yeah, for this one that's fine.

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>> I I'm not able to review plans like that before the hearings. >> Oh, yeah. I know. No, I'll do it. I know I've done it in the past because I've had time, but I have no time. >> I have no time. Well, welcome to my world. Um, so I'll I'll do the revision as soon as I can. This is the surveyor that's off Cape.

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>> Okay. >> So, I have to work with him to get an original >> stamp. Yeah. >> Where'd you find the landscaper? >> Lynn. >> Lynn. >> Oh, is Oh, okay. I thought she was someone new. I don't know. >> Lynn's been Lynn's been a consultant or

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she's been doing this kind of work 10 years longer than me. Um, she used to work for Down Cape. >> I used to work for Coastal Engineering >> and uh, >> small world. >> We went out, we all know each other, you know, and we all work together. And so Lynn does things [clears throat] that I

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don't and I do things that she doesn't. And the two of us, we can do darn near anything. >> Thank you everyone. >> Mark, >> thank you. >> Thanks, Mark. >> Thanks, Mark. And I I hope I wasn't overstepping when I spoke on the other project, but >> I think you helped.

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>> No, I I think you helped and you provided a very clear and concise uh summary of where we were thinking of headings. Um it was >> we couldn't articulate, but yeah, having you articulate it for us very helpful. >> Yeah.

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>> And it was for their benefit, too, because I know they're not going to mow again, and they they weren't getting that. It's like your dog can poop there until the grass is about this high and after that you're gonna have to leave. >> Say that but we can't. [laughter] >> Okay. >> I have quick other businesses. The

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wetland regulations proposed updates >> on the approval of minutes first. >> Yeah, sure. Go ahead. Yeah, you could do that. >> Um, was everyone here? I think so. >> What's this? You >> Thank you. >> minutes. We're talking minutes.

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>> Oh, >> I kind of did. >> Yeah. Unless anybody's made changes they want to tell us about. >> No. >> Approve. I have >> You move. >> All right. We have a motion to approve. Second it. >> I'll second. >> Okay. All in favor?

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>> I >> I >> Thank you, Jack. >> Okay. The quick other business. The Wetlands Protection Act regulations are proposed to be updated. There is hearings on August 10th at 1 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. If you want to listen in, I will provide a list list of the updates

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and changes um probably not before the hearing, but I'm also on the board for the Association of Mass Wetland Scientists, and we're preparing a comment letter, and I'll distribute that to you guys as well, so you have an idea of at least what's going on um and what

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other people think about it. >> Was that a Zoom link? Didn't they send a Zoom link? There was a an information session last week about it and now there's two public hearings. So, a lot of the same stuff will probably be said, but they have to have these public hearings when they're proposing new regulations.

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Um, we have a new member starting next meeting and we had discussed doing a working meeting. We'll have to reach out to schedule. We've had lots of ideas from Ellie for some regulation updates and um I think we should all take a look at the

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template of special conditions that I use so you guys know what actually goes in the orders when we talk about everything because there's some kind of standards that go in there no matter what. >> Can't believe you used to read them out Pat said you used to read them the

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meetings must have taken longer. >> Yeah, that was they read the numbers but yeah that was long. Um, the last thing, NHGSP has revised their maps and they are open for public comment through October 4th. So, we have a lot longer for that one. Um,

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>> you said FEMA, >> uh, NHSP. >> Oh, >> so there are some changes, significant changes in Yarmouth that we'll have to look at and I think we should provide them a comment letter from the commission. the natural heritage. So, the endangered species habitats,

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>> I think they took away some from some of the ponds and added some from some to some marsh pond areas. So, those taking away them would have some good impacts. So, we should we should take a look at those. >> You mean as a national like this is from a national

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>> this is the Massachusetts state endangered national. Okay. I guess >> yeah, because now the federal doesn't recognize habitat. >> Okay. Yep. to state. >> So, there's a couple things coming up that we should review as a commission.

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Um, and we'll probably try and have a working meeting, which so probably like four or five at some evening that's not a Thursday. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? >> Um,

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>> motion. No, go ahead. >> No, I Well, yes. I we approved signs like months ago and I was at a one of our conservation sites and I saw it and I was like, "Oh, yes." >> So, kudos to Britney. >> Oh, the signs.

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>> Yay. The signs are in. We put wetlands and vernal pool signs in 12 locations around town with tourism funds. Um, they're nice signs. They've got like a frog or a wetland on them and say conservation sensitive habitat. Do not

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disturb, no dumping. because we put them strategically. One of them we put in a pile of debris because we chose strategic places that people were dumping. Um yeah, [snorts] and Joe put those in with the help of the natural resources division.

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>> Speaking of signs, on that there's no signs. >> There is a sign. >> Oh, there's >> you need to replace that, >> but you have to go by Kings Highway. the um >> the one we were just

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>> what we looked at tonight. I I didn't >> Oh, there's no sign at that one. >> Okay. >> But there's the sign here. So, if you go up Thatcher Street, there's like a wooden sign um saying like it say don't dump here.

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>> No, it's like a big conservation sign, but it's set back a little >> and it's wood, so it blends in a bit. That one's a little old, but I think the neighborhood likes it because it like blends in. >> I move that we adjourn. >> I'll second.

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>> Okay. [laughter] Bye. >> Bye.