Okay. Although our whole our whole meeting may be >> correct >> because it was advertised as a hybrid meeting and they can't hear us. >> I think they can hear us now. >> Can you hear us now, Matt?
No. Okay. Oh, they have sound. >> Okay, >> you do have sound. >> Can we hear him? >> What he says? >> We can hear you. >> Can we hear them? >> I see. >> Can Can you write in the chat?
>> Move them all to see if they're still in that >> Matt is Matt is muted. I can see it in the far corner there. >> Ask to unmute. >> Ask to unmute. You see where it says ask
>> loud. >> Can you guys hear me? >> Yeah. >> Can you hear us? >> We can or I can. Um I don't know about Ma and Libby and Jonathan. Can you promote us to panelists because without
that we can't share and I don't think we can chat either. >> You you were promoted. It was it was a different >> status might have changed it was up here too. >> Uh oh. Okay.
>> There you go. >> That's Libby. >> Libby, can you hear us? >> I can hear you. Fine. >> I can hear you. >> Okay. >> Um can you also promote um Jonathan? He's our landscape uh architect.
>> His name is >> Jonathan Kerr. Yes, we saw him. >> Yeah, >> he he seems to have dropped off. Matt Jonathan seems to have dropped off. >> All right, let me email him. >> I've been back and forth with him. Let
me just let me >> Yeah, we're we're in better shape now, Ma. >> Okay, let me just message him really quick. >> Okay, >> we're gonna have to >> Sorry about that, guys. >> You have to redo everything. That's all right.
>> Okay. So, since we had difficulties with our technology, we're going to have to call this meeting to order again. It is the regular meeting of the library building committee for October 16, 2025
being called to order at 700 p.m. And we will move to a roll call attendance. Tom >> Tom Pendleton, vice chair. >> Susan G, planning committee. >> John Greco, construction um background.
>> Nikki Jianto, West Library user. >> Judy Connor, Tarbor, chair. Uh we are going to slip down to uh I I guess Matt, do you want to go
first and then introduce G2? >> Yes. Although we've lost Jonathan, so we need him to rejoin. Um, I emailed him. Libby, did you I don't know if or Ma, sorry. Do you have his phone number? Can
you text him? >> Um, hold on. Let me see. I I don't >> Okay, >> so let's just hope he sees our multiple messages.
All right. Uh, >> okay. Well, >> well, we could I mean, I I was hoping to avoid having to drag them through our presentation, but we can start and then uh we have a couple of things to talk
about tonight. One of which is plan development. Um, and so we could start with that and then have him join in after that. And then we've got one more thing to talk about after that. So why don't we do that? So let me let me pull up the presentation.
>> All right. So we are going to our uh agenda item 10. >> Okay. Are you guys seeing my screen now? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, let me
hold on here. Okay. Can you see this? >> Yes. So when last we met at the board of selectmen or the select board, we were making a presentation of our progress so far
and presented them with challenges of the MacArthur school, gave them the results of the visit from your uh engineer and
the initial concept design for the site. And then we got our marching orders to pursue this with an aim of meeting the December deadline for submission for the grant
and keeping alive on the side the possibility of refurbishing, renovating, repurposing the MacArthur school. So for this part of our conversation,
looks like Matt has definitely moved ahead with the concept design. So Matt, thank you. Go ahead. >> All right. So >> Matt, sorry just before you present, um, I just wanted to make sure that Accenture is also on the call.
>> Oh, good. >> Because I don't see them and I just want to make sure. >> Nope. >> No. >> Okay. I'm going to message them as well. >> Okay. You do you have um their >> Can you text them both?
>> I'll try to figure it out. >> Jen. Okay. Jen and Tim. Um okay. Um where to begin? So we we took the plan diagrams that you guys have seen up
until now and we have worked uh MA and Libby have been working to turn those into architectural plans that that uh follow the sort of adjacencies that we had laid out and we've modified
some things based on comments that we've gotten. Mindy had sent us some specific comments about the children's and so we've reworked things a little bit there and and I will say that there's still going to be a lot of work to do to get
this plan where we want it and I think what will make sense is to have some follow-up um meetings kind of smaller group meetings with David and individuals from the staff and you know maybe one meeting is specifically to
talk about the children's wing. One meeting is specifically to talk about the adult program, uh, community program staff, etc. Um, and David can figure out who from his team needs to be in those. And so we we can set those up offline and so we don't have to feel like
tonight we need to address every kind of fine-tuned >> um comment about each each wing, but but we want to give you a kind of broad overview of progress. And so, as you can see, this is a a more
concrete plan. It's it's now delineated with walls and doors and solid versus glazed partitions, furniture. So, you start to get a sense of scale and you can kind of understand the layout. So, in the adult space, for instance, you're
seeing although we have not done a collection count yet. So the shelving here is kind of a placeholder graphically until we do a a collection and analysis. But you can see where we've got bookshelving where we have groups of furniture. You know, these are
individual uh lounge chairs. Um there's a reference desk in the middle here. Study rooms are located along the right side of the plan. Um community room, you know, has seats now in at the front of the room is on the right hand side here.
But generally speaking, you can kind of get a sense and I'll I'll turn the color off here to maybe make it a little bit easier to read. Um, so this is a first pass that there will be many many iterations of this and revisions to
this, but this was our first attempt to get this down on paper. Um, double check square footages of of things. We're we've got some work still to do to tighten this up and make sure that each room is meeting the you know what the
program calls for in terms of square footage as well as getting kind of adjacencies and access to work properly. So, I'll I'll let MA and Libby jump in here if there are specific things that they want to
uh to point out since they were really the ones developing these plans. Um, not to put you on the spot, Ma, but if there's anything in particular that you have found as you've been laying these out that you know, questions or
concerns or observations that you've noted over the last week. Um, uh, I don't know that there's anything that's, uh, I that I would specifically call
questions or concerns, but I guess we should point out that the community wing has changed to a certain degree. um with the circulation now on the outside wall and the rooms sort of facing the the
woods um to the east side. Um and we have adjusted the children's and teens wing to show the glass wall that separates teens from the hall and then um you butt into the children's wing. Um we show the double doors where you enter
the children's um and have sort of rearranged where the story um story hour room which is now on the front um southwest corner of the building and we rearranged the location of the YA workroom which is now
sitting between the children's desk and the teens desk um with doors between the two um per Mindy's request and then there's a private reference librarian office beyond. Um, this isn't perfect yet, but um, you know, it it sort of
speaks to the the conversation we had at the programming meeting last week. And then right now, you're facing the a small corridor that oversees the bathrooms and the mother's room with the sensory room is actually currently on the other side of the wall. So, it's
directly outside of children's and directly across from teens. So both um both can use it. Um and then we've as you can see there's there's glazing both to the YA um the
main teen room and the maker space which can we can consider a flex space right now. Glazing along that corridor but a solid wall to um the main lobby so that there's they're not like a it's not a fishbowl situation. Um
and then we've also relocated, if you look at the adults wing, those um private study rooms and group study rooms are now closer to the circulation point and sort of directly in view of the reference desk so that the
periodicals have moved to the end of the wing. Um but you have a much better visibility into those um private meeting rooms. And then in in deference to our conversations again, we've sort of
colllocated um a couple of uh computers for public use and the um reference computers just north of the uh circulation desk and um and that's adjacent to the print
station to the right. Right now we have sort of a a pretty large counter and a single station but assumed that we could collate colllocate computers and reference computers that can print um directly next to it in an open um
environment. Um and then just beyond that you can see the staff the staff wing. So you the circulation desk butts up into the two um circulation workrooms and then uh all of the staff spaces are
directly to the east with a sort of direct view into the director's office. We have some questions in terms of whether you want to close off that staff wing and leave it. Um, and basically any
any patrons could potentially access the the director's office directly um from the lobby or they can sort of enter this staff corridor. Um, I think that's the main changes we made
unless Libya missing something huge. I have this one I did for a bit so I don't know if I caught that but I'm sure you captured it all. >> This by the way this line here represents off hours um secure closure.
So, we're we're thinking that there would be a a storage compartment here and a stainless steel uh curtain effectively gets drawn across this area with a track at the ceiling and that that secures this entire adult
wing and the circ desk and staff staff areas. You would lock this door here so there'd be no access back into the staff areas, but we need obviously we need to maintain access to the bathroom. So, we have two multi-stall bathrooms, men's
and women's. Those are going to have to be um designated sex, you know, single sex b multi-stall bathrooms. But then we have um opposite those off of that same quarter, we have two single occupancy,
genderneutral um restrooms as well. So, that's all part of the off hours experience. The kitchenet here serves both the meeting rooms but also, you know, activities in the lobby. So, even
if there's something happening in this meeting room, somebody could potentially get into the kitchen if you guys are going to have some kind of coffee service. We've also done it in different instances where we have a a kind of coffee counter setup that's independent
from the kitchen. So, the kitchen can be secured and and staff only, but then there's a kind of public um you know uh coffee bar or something if that's something that you guys are are interested in doing. Um, so the the
kitchen, the bathrooms, storage, which is shared by two of the three meeting rooms, the large one and the and the classroom, the multi-purpose room. Um, and then the large meeting room. All of that is accessible off hours as is the lobby. Uh, the children's and teen doors
would be locked. So, basically all the doors in this corridor would be locked. We could actually introduce a door at this end that is open during the day, but you can close it at night to have a single point of security, so you don't have people wandering down a hallway.
So, that would mean that the lobby, you know, most of the lobby with access to outdoor space on the north side of the building, um, this entire community wing, all the public bathrooms would be available off hours. You would use the same door uh that you would use
normally. there isn't a there isn't a special offers door. Um and yeah, >> and then I would also point out um sorry I was busy with Accentra. Sorry I don't want to repeat anything you said Matt but um we're a little bit over right
now. So the building you're seeing is slightly bigger than it should be. Um we need to tighten up the lobby and you know shrink the um the wings a little bit to tighten up all the square footage. So, you're you're looking at a building that's a little bit larger than it will eventually be as we start to
rightsize everything and make sure that we're we're being really cognizant of the the figures in the program document. >> Yeah. And that's that's pretty typical at this stage. It you know, when you're first getting things down on paper, they
tend to be slightly inflated. And then the more kind of iterations we go through, the more we find efficiencies and we tighten things up. Um, you know, circulation might we might be able to make circulation more efficient in some cases. And we get rooms right sized.
Right now, my guess is that a number of the rooms are are a little bit off. Some of them are are probably bigger than they need to be based on what the program calls for. So there's there will be several rounds of that kind of tightening along with whatever comments
come out of um the more kind of specific staff meetings that we anticipate having. >> Um I'm going to jump >> excuse me Matt. Um yes Marie or whoever's controlling the cursor can you
can you show me where the two circulation areas were? I think I heard there was a circulation area for teens and a different one for children. Okay. >> Yes. So, >> so this Can you see my cursor, Judy?
>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. So, this I'm circling the teen wing now. So, this is the this is the work room, the staff work room that is in between the children's room, which is here, and the teen room, which is here. There's glass on both sides. Um, on the
children's room side, there's a desk here, which is the the children's librarian. On the teen room side, there's a desk. There are doors from on both sides of that workroom that get you into, you know, or connect you from the desk
into the workroom, both from the YA side and from the children's side. Uh, the main circ desk is here. >> The reference desk is here. Um, >> thank you. >> FYI, um, both Jonathan and Tim are
waiting, so if you promote them, they can join us. >> They're going to be down participants over there on the bottom. Can you see where we go? Make them panels.
>> Thank you. >> Great. >> Uh, does anybody else have any questions about the the plan? Anyone here? No. >> Uh, are there only going to be like
gender neutral bathrooms? >> Yes, he he did describe those. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Okay, man. So, one one last thing with this 3D plan up, I'll I'll mention that all of the shelving that's freestanding
is meant to be low enough that you can see over the top of it, whereas shelving that's against walls could be taller. Um, so that's going to be our starting point when we start doing shelving counts and figuring out, you know, how we we shove the collection. we we have
actual collection numbers so we can start to figure out you know for each portion of the collection how much shelving do we need to accommodate it. Um so this as I said this is kind of a placeholder now just sort of intuitively striking a balance between collections
and furniture. Um but that will start to tighten up as we get into that analysis. All right. So, now that Jonathan is here, I'm going to jump back to the beginning and let him take over.
Um, Jonathan, just let me know when you Can you hear, by the way? >> I can hear. Can you hear me? Great. Yes. Great. >> Um, just let me know when you want me to advance slides. So, I'll go ahead and go to the first. >> Perfect. Hi, everyone. >> Okay. So, Jonathan, welcome to our
library building committee meeting. Uh, and we're glad to have you here to present your report. >> Great. Thank you so much. Um, it's nice to see everyone. Uh, it's been fun working on this. Um, I might at the
beginning be repeating some things that have already been said, so I apologize, but it's just kind of to help set the framework for the work that we did. So, I'll start with the site. Um, we know lots about that. uh to some of the existing conditions that we were looking
at and that kind of helped inform also the original site plan that was shared with you all is uh the existing circulation around the school building, the existing parking as well as the kind of dramatic nature of the topography up at the north um the northeast side of
the the site which we're seeing as kind of a fun opportunity as you know. So Matt, you can move on. So, this is that site plan that I know that's been shared with you. And this was kind of our starting place as we thought about the site. Um,
and uh I'll just point out a few things here that you already know. the relocation of the access road, the kind of removal of the ring of um circulation around the placement of the building at the northeast corner to take advantage of views of that ravine
and that shared green and plaza that um kind of connect the school building with the the proposed library and the parking shared parking. So, we kind of extracted some things from this kind of starting place to help us with some design
explorations. Um next slide. Sorry. Next slide, Matt. Thanks. So, what we kind of pulled from this and that we wanted to achieve with any like further designs that we looked at were having the sense of arrival and of a singular like understanding of knowing
where you're going and knowing that you're about to approach an important civic building. Uh the connections to the town, uh pedestrian connections. um celebrating that existing landscape and that kind of nice topography, having some kind of shared open space for the
the community at large, but also the the schools and then having a very welcoming entry. So, that's what we use to go into our design ideas. Next slide. So, I have a few options to share um
that kind of have different configurations of the parking and uh kind of landscape types. So this is the first one. Um, next slide. So you can see with that bold yellow line, this is our kind of path to the
entry of the library. You know, we've lost the kind of that again that circular um road around the school. So now we have a single path in. What we've done is we've pulled that entry road off from the parking a bit. So you you're led
right up to the the front of the library. Um it kind of helps when you introduce this kind of new pedestrian connection to the town common. We have two kind of landscapes that we've created. The ravine landscape on the
north uh which borrows from the obviously the existing ravine and then a potential kind of informal uh play uh space that borrows again from that forest landscape. So, kind of it brings the forest towards the parking
lot, but then we can become a little bit more informal and fun with that space. Um, the goal here is to also have drop off near the building uh with a plaza. And I'll show some examples of the kind
of typologies that we're seeing here um in uh that'll appear in all of the all of the options. But um this could be a kind of larger shared use pedestrian vehicular circulation kind of space. And
then our parking area which here is showing 100 spaces in that new lot. And I've just highlighted in the lefth hand corner of all these slides what the spaces are. So these 18 spaces are the existing is the existing parking to the west of the school. Those 18 spaces and
then we're suggesting another 100 spaces in the parking lot you're seeing. Um another thing I'll I'll point out is that while we want to have um nice kind of like landscape feel like the building's embedded. We did want to have some view of the building from the town
and the streets. So, opening up that forest landscape at the north. Um, next slide. Oh, and feel free to hop in and ask questions along the way if you have any. >> Jonathan, I have one question and maybe I'm jumping ahead here. Can you go back
to the other slide real quick, Matt? >> So, I are we missing where the students are dropped off? We seem to have I don't see a school drop off point here. And am I just too far ahead on this? Yeah, I think that it's something that we wanted to explore worked with
whatever scheme we have. So, it's not included like the the whole logistics for drop off at the school aren't included here. >> Yep. Yep. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Jonathan, um what what is the under the competition? What is the parking requirement? Is it It's not as
big as 100, is it? >> I thought it was 62 spaces. >> It's a great question that we've been talking about. Matt, I don't know if you want to hop in. >> Yeah. So, um, Susan, we don't know the answer to that yet. We, based on the MBLC requirement,
um, we think that we need to provide 60 parking spaces, which is one space for every 400 gross square feet of building. Zoning, which doesn't have a specific classification for libraries, is a
little bit grayer. um that you know they've the zoning I think call has a has a category for assembly buildings but they've put things like churches and theaters you know high density seating
types of buildings into that category and and that's one space for every three occupants. If we did one space for every three occupants I think we would get a number that was considerably higher than 60. Um, and so that's that's something that we're going to have to probably a
conversation we're going to have to have with the local uh planning department and or um or building official to get a kind of sense of where they're going to fall there. I think, you know, I think
it's for a building of this size, I would expect between 60 and 70 parking spaces. more than that I think is going to be difficult to achieve. The other thing is we have to maintain the spaces that are currently dedicated to the MacArthur School. And I don't recall,
Jonathan, I don't know if you know off the top of your head how many spaces are in that existing lot behind the building. Um, but these hundred spaces that are behind the MacArthur building now would be whatever is dedicated to the library plus recreating the spaces
that are that are existing now for the school plus those spaces those 18 spaces that are on the west side of the building. >> There are 48 48 spaces in the current. >> Yeah, a lot.
>> Yeah. My only comment is I'm I'm remembering what uh one of Tracy Post's comments the night we made our presentation you made the presentation was sort of she was concerned like the the grandness of the endeavor. Um and 100 parking spaces is a lot of space. So
I think if you you know if you have to if the competition requires only between 70 60 and 70 and then we have to allocate you have to do a very good job I think in justifying going almost 25%
higher than that uh because 100 spaces is a lot of spaces and she was concerned about the building and there was no comment at all about the parking that's a lot of parking um if >> we agree Susan and I I I think part of
this exercise was also not suggesting that this is how much parking we should build, but how much parking can we actually fit on the site comfortably? Um because because we that's going to be part of the conversation that we have with the town. If we if we go to the
town and we say this is the parking number that we think it should be and they say well this is the parking count that it should be based on our interpretation of zoning then we can say well we can fit this many parking spaces on this site and still have room for the for the school. So even though we're
showing all of this parking now we're not saying that this is what we should do. We don't want to build any more parking than we absolutely need. Um both for cost but also you know we want to maintain as much green space as we can. >> So if this could be a third smaller we would be very happy.
>> Matt, what are you estimating is the cost per for pack for you know surface packing? What is your estimate for each SL each packing spot? >> Uh I don't Jonathan I don't know if you have that figure off the top of your head. I don't >> I don't I have it somewhere but not off
the top of my head. So, >> that that would be a discussion point. You know, if they she thought you were over if each spot is going to be I don't know $1,500 that that can be substantial, >> correct? >> Yeah, agreed. >> Okay. So, we'll hold that. Yeah, we've
got a we've got >> I think we should be cognizant of >> We definitely have to hold that. And Mindy, >> I have a question about parking. that if we reduce the number of parking spots, excuse me, previously we had overflow parking because for at least two of our events and not
including the seaside festival, we can fill up a 100 parking spaces or more. So where would overflow parking go if we reduce the number of parking spaces there >> across the street of town hall? >> Yeah, in the grassy area.
>> Yeah, we looked at that as well. I I just to follow on what Matt said, all of these are the maximum number of spaces we could imagine for each scheme. Um so there's lots of ways to cut, but we did think, oh, there's also an opportunity to do overflow parking on the lawns um
that are adjacent depending on what we think the town's needs are. And so there's ways to to configure that if we reduce the amount of um paved parking. For sure. >> We believe parking space is never enough. There's never enough parking
space anywhere. >> But remember guys, this is going to be a money discussion. The red flag has been raised now already, right? >> So, let's not, you know, let's pretend we're being respon we are being responsible. I think it's a big mistake to try to overbuild if we if because
they the board of selection is going to say to us, why do you need a 100 spots when we are parking across the street? I'm playing doubles everything. >> Absolutely. >> Because it costs $800 to get a crossing guard so that people can cross from across the street per day. We use them. >> Yeah. But but still this is
>> that's half of one parking place. So >> should be part of the conversation. Yeah. >> Yes. And um we also have to think about frequency >> of the need for that many spaces. So if it's an infrequent need then we do have
to have alternative parking like on the green space or across the street. And I think actually that's knowing that getting a duty officer to do that u is $800. That's still way less than paving.
And we've certainly heard from the public that they don't they like the green space in the trees. So, okay. One one other thing to mention about overflow parking is even though it's cut off on on these slides in the bottom right corner of this image, there are
two town parcels that extend further south uh that are clear that are level. They're just grass currently that could be designated as overflow parking. I I believe you guys park on the grass now for special events. So that that could
be opened up for special events where you pull into the parking lot driveway and then you peel off onto that lawn uh and have parking down there and you'd probably fit another I don't know probably you could probably get another 60 cars down there I would guess. Um so
that's an option. >> Okay. >> Great. Oh, I just want to make a comment here, Jonathan, because I I see the word on the title of this slide. Um, so we've
had a little h what do I want to say? Well, we've had several conversations and maybe a little reaction to the word ravine um as being maybe a very
>> excessive word. Uh so the the actual definition is a a small narrow steep-sided valley that's larger than a galley a gully and less than a canyon smaller than a canyon and it's worn by
running water. And so it kind of brings to mind burrows and backpacks and things like that. So we've been trying to pull away from that word ravine. That's >> Jonathan. We've been we've been calling it more recently a depression.
>> It's a shallow a shallow depression. >> Subtle depression. Yeah. >> Yeah, it is. It is pretty shallow. I mean, you know, it's >> the when you look at the contour map, it looks more dramatic than it is in person. So,
>> I think that >> I did not convey that that um semantic change to Jonathan. So >> yes, please disregard any use of the word ravine. Um, replace it with a word of your choice. Yeah, >> just a reminder, this is a library
project and words are important. >> I will say that I think that what we found most compelling, I mean, the topography is nice because it gives you a little bit of advantage, but it's the the wooded quality. So, I think the planting is kind of what we would it refer to. And I think all of our um
thinking around it would still make sense as far as being a a mini woodland, if you will. Um a forested area, >> enchanted forest. There we go. >> So, and and to that point, we're not uh
not yet sure exactly how we um access that space. if it's purely visual, if it's purely from the building, if there's some um exterior access, can you walk into it? All of those are big questions, but we're open to really anything um that folks think would make sense for that space. Um and then the
idea of kind of bringing that wooded area to the front um in a more open way uh gave us this idea of a a informal nature play kind of space. This isn't play equipment or anything like that. It's usually paths. um in wooded or even
slightly open areas, just kids getting the chance to play with natural materials. So, fallen logs, boulders, um planting, um kind of this uh fun forest circuits and that kind of thing. All right. And then the final type I'll just
share is this idea of this mixedus plaza which could then expand the scope of the plaza that we've drawn here to incorporate the drop off depending on kind of like how the how how much vehicular circulation happens in that
space. If there's a special event, could you close off that drop off and make the plaza much larger? Here are a few examples that are admittedly urban scaled um a little bit bigger than what the space would be. But the idea is that there's lots of ways to have um
kind of pedestrian spaces that can be used by vehicles when needed, but otherwise can be turned into pedestrian friendly open programmable spaces. >> Okay, so those types appear in all the
schemes. Uh this is the next um design that we looked at here. Instead of having a kind of a pulloff road, um we've taken that space to have dedicated parking for the school, brought the the driveway to the library further to the
south and then kind of created um an axial kind of like drive up to the the drop off area. Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's helpful. Thanks, Matt. uh that brings you kind of dead center onto the building and that that entry
plaza. Um we have the the nature play area occupying kind of the space in between and parking on either side of that central access to the to the drop off. Um so it gets us less parking um
unless we were to severely like reduce the nature play area. Um okay, next slide. Okay, this is option C. Um here we have um we've brought the parking closer to the school. So that idea of shared
parking might become a little bit easier um with the library and the school and their spaces that are closer to that rear entry. And then we've brought um next slide. Actually, Matt, that'll be helpful again. Yeah. So we've brought that bold yellow line. That's our new um
path towards the the drop off in front of the library. So, it comes out to the south and kind of circles the parking. Um if you know where you're going and you want to go ahead and park, you can pull into the parking lot, but otherwise there's a kind of a clear single route to the front drop off. And here we're
showing again 110 spaces. Lots of this can go away. Um lots of kind of there's lots of ways to play with that, but that's that's kind of our max that we're looking at. And then next slide.
This last option kind of deviates from that idea of um maintaining the current access road and creates a new path that follows around the other side of the school to the library. We thought this just provided a nice very clear um drive to the front of the library. Um, and it
requires a bit more uh work on that road, but it provides a kind of clear um entry arrival experience onto the site. Uh, requires no signage that you're coming to the library. It'll be very obvious as you pass by it. Um we've done
is we've uh removed then that park that row of 18 uh spaces to the west, introduced um the potential for a new lot, smaller lot to the right immediate um kind of immediately adjacent to the building. Um with the option to also
have a dedicated school parking lot just to the south there. Um and then we have our library parking aisles to the east of that. Okay, I think we have a question here at the table. John, >> so going back to like what Susan was
saying. When we had it in the other position, we were worrying about the common. Should we worry about MacArthur parking? Because anything we do to reign the roadway is only more money >> and people are going to think of that as
a library thing when it's not a library thing. and it may make it all better, >> but again, if it's a cost, which it's a cost, then you're gonna say, "Who's paying for that cost?" >> And then you're getting into sticky wickets. >> It's more expensive than like five more parking spots.
>> Well, this was also um one of the things I was kicking around when Matt first presented his ideas for the traffic flow. And after I went home and played with it, I didn't like it as much because it kind
of complicates where the student traffic is too. So the, for example, a bus would come in there and then they're having to veer off and it just kind of blends all the traffic together. It seems much less safe to me.
>> So the expectation is they'll do a U-turn and go back out the same way they came in. >> Is that what you're thinking? the school traffic. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's what it's looking like to me. >> Or they have to go into the parking lot and that's still
>> Yeah. >> Well, I guess that's a is all traffic rerouted on and out of 28 and no one can go to North Main Street. >> Correct. >> Main. >> Old Maine. >> So, you got to circle in and out to 28.
>> True. But so there'll be no access to North Main Street. >> I don't think you can right >> based on the easement was for emergency. >> You can't enter from Old Maine. You can exit to Old Man, >> but you cannot enter. >> So there's a dawning yellow one. So that means they could exit. >> They could exit, but you cannot enter
right now. It's blocked off from Old M. >> As of now. Okay, Mindy. >> Okay. I have two questions. Um, what is the distance from the front door to the end of the plaza? Right. You're talking this distance here?
>> Yes. >> So, it it varies in the schemes, but it's it's much bigger than it appears. I think it's like somewhere between 60 and 80 ft. >> Yeah, >> that's a lot. >> That's my concern is um at one of our first outreach sessions, patrons wanted
to make sure that they could get very close to the door to enter the building. We've actually had people drive up on our walkway to try to drop people off at the door of the building. Um, and the
drop off only works if they have somebody to drop them off. I know other people with walkers and canes that park in the handicap spots and then walk themselves in because they're so close. >> That's been a concern of mine all along,
too. and wondering if there is some way to enter at the end of the building there in what's the community space. Uh just because 60 or 80 feet if you're using an assisted device that's that's a long
way. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Anybody else around second question still? >> Oh, okay. Sorry. And then my second question is um >> Matt maybe just go to the next slide too because we can look at all the options at once. Yep. Perfect. Okay. And my next question is, is there
a staff spot close to the library to drop off supplies, book delivery, UPS, like all that sort of all those sorts of needs. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, this is definitely much higher
level, not considering all of the logistics needs. We know that those are concerns, but we weren't didn't have the chance to know specifically what they were. So, I think all of those things could be accommodated in any of these schemes once we have a better understanding of what the needs are for
staff parking um and kind of logistical access to the building. >> I think if you look at options say A and C, we're getting the drop off closer to the
entrance. I I would not advocate for an entrance at the southern end of the community wing for a variety of reasons. I think there can be egress there, but I I and maybe there's an like a special provision for an off hours use of a door
that's down at the end of the corridor just before you get into the meeting room. But I think during the day that's going to be problematic in terms of access. You want to have better control over who's coming in the door. Um, I mean, we we have this conversation on
almost every project. You know, how far is parking from the front door? How do you get there? Um, you know, people in high heels, people with mobility issues. And I mean, the reality is that the distance from drop off to the front door is less than the distance that you'll go
from the lobby to the periodicals room or to the children's uh storytime room. You know, the it's a 24,000t building. And so there is an expectation that people even people with mobility issues are need to get from one point in that
building to the other point. And that distance is in most cases greater than the distance that we're talking about from the car to the front door. I think as long as we have, you know, an easy easily navigable surface, it, you know,
it's easy to walk on. It's not gravel. It's, you know, it's it's a smooth level surface. No trip hazards. You know, no, it's everything's flush. There's no grade change. this is a flat site uh before you get to the depression. Um and
so I think all of that makes for a fairly easily navigable pedestrian experience. Um I think we can we can certainly work on getting the drop off as close as we can to the front door, but we don't want we don't want
cars that close to the building. We don't want you to be able to drive up right to the front door. I think there's a there's an inherent conflict between cars and people. You know, when you get that close, I think it becomes very uncomfortable and frankly a little bit unsafe. Um, so so we've got to figure
out how to how to balance that out. I think the same is true for service. And as Jonathan said, we're not quite there yet, but we'll want to talk through the different ways that this building is serviced. And that's both by staff, but
by, you know, delivery people, by uh the, you know, the lending network vans that are going to come up and drop off books and pick up bins. And um we've actually set up the plan in a way that
suggests a kind of back door that is meant for deliveries and, you know, a place to take the trash out of the building and kind of have it be behind the building. And that's that's sort of behind this community wing here. And so
I think we'll want to look at, you know, is there a way at the end of a community wing to get a service spot where somebody could pull a van in and then and then have a walkway that gets you back to that service entrance. Um or a trash truck that backs up and collects
trash out of the back of that. So there there are a lot of things like that that we're going to have to think about. Um, these were really an attempt to to think about the experience of entering the site in a car, arriving at the library, dropping somebody off, parking
your car, and getting there. And so you know what what just as an example what we found interesting about option D granted it it it's maybe more um ambitious than the others in terms of of
you know how much adjustment is made to the existing condition. But what was nice about it is that you're not you don't have a delayed experience of circling MacArthur before you arrive at the library. You come right into the library site. You see the library on
your approach. Uh and then you you drive in, you drop off, and you park. Uh you know, I So there was something interesting about that that's very different from the other three. The other three, you know, you come in along the west side of of the school, you turn
at the end of the school into the area where we have a driveway and parking. The other thing that that Jonathan and his team have done that I think is interesting is think about how you get to the library, the front door of the library to drop off without driving
through a parking lot. And so all of these in their own way are trying to do that. And I think that's that's a worthwhile exercise. I mean, it it creates a little bit more paving because you're creating a dry vial that is
that's different or distinct from the parking lot drive aisle. Um, but it's a nicer way to experience a public building. And so the these are starting points and, you know, we'll we'll kind of fine-tune things from here.
>> Okay. >> Question Vicki. >> Yeah. Um would it be how much costlier would it be uh for example like an estimate not exact
uh to choose D other than rather than C or B or A because we're changing the road. Yeah, that that's already there. Yeah, it's a good question that I don't totally know the answer to, but I will say that there's already a lot of site
work here to remove the existing road that we're that we've taken away that wraps there. So, I think that I don't think it's quite as dramatic as it seems um from a a cost point of view just because we're impacting so much of the
site currently. All of these impact a lot of the site, but I I don't I couldn't say how much more it would be to to put that to relocate that road to be honest. >> Short answer is more. >> Yeah. >> Yes. More. Yes. More, but I don't know how much more. Yeah.
>> Okay. >> Yeah, that's a concern. And also, will the school have to uh allow us to do that because they may not like >> No, it's town property. It's all town property. >> Really? Okay. Good. So, we won't have any issues with that. Yep.
Okay. Any other questions, comments around the table? >> David, >> okay, >> he's putting them on the back burner. Jonathan, thank you so much. It's nice to meet you.
>> Thank you. Good to meet you, too. Thank you. >> Um, Jonathan, you're welcome to stay on. We're going to move on to our next topic. Um, or you can hop off. Your choice. But thank you for joining us. >> Of course. Sounds good. >> All right, moving to our next topic. Um,
one of the things, let's skip through the plans here. One of the things that we have discovered, um, what's a project without another curveball? Um, in the copious documents that we found that Judy uncovered for us about the
MacArthur building, one of them was a septic plan. So, this is a septic plan for a system that was installed in in 2003. >> Um, this is overlaid onto the property.
Why they put it here is beyond me in in the woods. But um if you I know you can't read this, but over in this corner are existing cesspools that were probably part of the original building. Um that have been just filled with sand
and abandoned. Uh but they there are two sewer lines that run out of the building. one out of the north end, one out of the west side and they they come down to septic tanks which are in in the hillside here and then are pumped
uh I think these these are gravity down to the septic and pumping chamber and then they're pumped up to this leeching field. Now if you if you look at that overlaid on the on the aerial you can see you know you sort of see this
depression in the tree line. So this is incredibly heavily vegetated in here. But that's where the leeching field is according to this drawing. The se the septic tank and pumping chamber are here. These white lines represent the the sewer lines that are connecting from
the building. Uh there's a manhole here at this elbow and then out pumped from this pumping chamber out to the septic leeching field. This is our building footprint overlaid on that septic plant.
So couple of things to point out. Um it was built in 2003. It is 22 years old. Based on conversations with our civil engineer, it is expected to be close to the end of its service life. In addition
to that, there's a tremendous amount of vegetation on top of that leeching field. That is not a good thing. You don't want plants and trees growing on top of your septic field. The roots get down into the chambers and reduce effectiveness by clogging those
chambers. It also causes the biomat layer, which is the the kind of bacteria layer. It's this uh kind of sludgy layer that is down below the septic field. That's where all of the kind of bacteria
is eating the the bad stuff in the sewage so that it it neutralizes it and allows it to be absorbed into the soil. When you have a lot of planting on top of a of a septic field like this, that biomat layer gets very thick and it it
moves closer to the surface and it also then reduces the effectiveness. So based on the age and based on the current conditions, we haven't inspected this. We don't know this for a fact, but our our our
estimation of it is that it's probably pretty close to being, you know, at the end of its life. And what happens ultimately in a situation like this is you get uh backups. So, I don't know if there have been any issues in the
school. Um it there is some grade change so it might take quite a bit for it to back up into the building because it's it's going down to the pumping chamber and then it's going back up the pipes to the building. So uh but but in any event that's that's the existing condition. So
what are we going to do about it? Um the the good news is that the town is planning a municipal sewer project. As part of that municipal sewer project, the first phase is to build the
treatment facility and the the the first areas that will have municipal sewer lines in them. The second contract in phase one and I think there are five or six contracts that are part of the phase
one sewer project. The second one first one is build the the the treatment facility. The second one is install sewer main in route 28 in a particular area which happens to be right in front of this library site.
>> So that's that's the good news. That schedule as far as I can tell is calling for a 2027 >> completion for that phase. Now, we've we've seen this movie. We in East Ham,
we we designed a building that was on wellwater and storage, firewater storage tanks, 30,000 gallons worth of firewater storage and a fire pump for a building that did not have any municipal water.
During design, the town approved a municipal water project with a new water tower and municipal water lines, the first phase of which was going to provide a water line down the road that fed the East Ham Public Library. Um, it
did not end up coinciding with construction and so we had to get a temporary COO to open without municipal water, but it it was a you know, it was a couple of month difference. So, it happened and it was a little bit painful at the time, but nobody remembers that anymore and it's now connected to
municipal water and it saved the project probably a quarter of a million dollars. Um, so in our case, it's hard to know what the timing of construction is going to be, but 2027 is is about when we're going to be
building this building, assuming all goes well. We got approval at town meeting in the spring and we got the green light to move ahead with design in summer of 2026 means that by summer of 2027
we are issuing bid documents. Takes a couple of months to bid it. Uh we're looking at uh fall 2027 construction start. So, it's conceivable that um that the timing of this project, assuming
best case scenario it moves as quickly as it can, that the timing of it could coincide quite nicely with the with the sewer project. >> We don't know for sure. >> I'm just going to ask you to wait. John has a question or comment.
>> So, um I'll go update for everybody. So, I'm on the town's water resource advisory committee, which is responsible for the sore project. At the last meeting, the contractor of the facility did ask for a six-month um
extension. So, it's been extended into 2007 >> 27 >> 27. So, we know it's going to be into 27. >> Obviously, until that gets built, nothing can go there. So, the the
million-dollar question will be when it will be finally done. Um, and I think everybody's anxious to then because the it's it's in the middle of 28. It's how how each project gets hooked up to the source system and when it's able to go
to the treatment plant. So, >> right. >> Um, the next meeting is in November. Might have more information after the November meeting. We're actually taking a trip to the to the treatment plant in the November meeting, but >> okay, >> keep fing things crossed.
>> So, yeah, I mean that that we'll we'll love to hear any updates that that you learn uh for that project. I this is not a deal breakaker from from our perspective. Um and like I said, what's
a project without a couple of curve balls? Um this I I there are two possible scenarios. One, the stars align and completion of that first phase of work aligns nicely with construction of the library project. The the the
challenge here is less the library and it's more the MacArthur building, >> right? >> Um we can't we sorry for my dog. Um, we can't take the We can't take Hold
on one second. Capital budget meeting. I hold >> Okay. Ambassador. Um, we we can't take MacArthur off. Stop. can't take MacArthur offline.
>> Um, so, so the best scenario would be that whatever happens, whether we're tying into the public sewer line or or any other scenario, it happens during the summer when school is out of session. Um, we talked to our civil
engineer about this and the what we think probably makes sense is to and and this is kind of like the East Ham scenario where we had to design something so that we had a fallback position. Um, in this case I think the fallback position is a temporary septic.
You put in a leeching field. We've got plenty of room, you know, south of the building, south of the parking lot that's level, that's town owned, that would be easy to to use. It's, you know, chances are this is pretty sandy soil. We're not going to have problems with
locating a septic field. We would have to confirm any adjacent private wells to make sure that, you know, we're we're staying out of that radius, but we feel like there's there's ample room that we could probably find a home for a septic system. That septic system would be
sized for both the MacArthur school and the library presumably, unless we had unless it was really just a temporary stop gap for MacArthur, in which case it could be sized only for MacArthur. Um, we think that we could maintain the
existing sewer lines, the septic tank, the pumping chamber, and just tie into that pumping chamber and pump up to a new septic location um someplace else. The cost of that is not terrible. Um, I mean, again, until we know a little bit
more about it, it's it's hard to speculate, but our when we asked for some kind of rough numbers from our septic uh, sorry, from our civil engineer, he was saying, you know, probably somewhere under $100,000. So, it's not I
mean, it's not inexpensive, but it's not, you know, a project killer either. Um, and I think that the hope is that that would be the sort of hit pocket solution, but that the the real hope is that the timing would work so that the
construction aligns with the the sewer project. So, this this is a lot of kind of whatifs and we don't really know yet. I think if we're smart, we probably build into the estimate this temporary solution
with the septic. So, we know what the cost is. If we don't need it in the end, great. But it would be an eligible cost. Um the NBLC presumably would cover their portion of that um of that cost. So,
um so I think that's what what we probably need to do. again. I don't I mean it was when we saw it we gasped. >> Matt time out. >> We We lost you for about two minutes. We got >> disconnected.
>> Pros went Let's see. It was going to be >> the second option was under 100k. >> Yeah, right around that. >> Just mentioned $100,000 as a cost. >> Okay. Uh I I don't remember what I said after that but ba basically I think it
should be included in our estimate uh as a as a kind of alternate until we really know I mean we won't know until we're probably into design really what the what the true schedule implications are. We're not going to know by December
probably, you know, we probably won't know by January when we do the estimate. So I think it makes sense to estimate this kind of fallback position um which again would be a temporary measure until you can tie into
um to the main. We asked our engineer if there was any way to do above ground tank storage like a tight tank and he said that mass DP really does not like that kind of solution. They probably wouldn't well he said they definitely
wouldn't allow it. So that's not an option. So you have to you have to put it into the ground. Um a temporary septic field would just get abandoned. It it wouldn't you have to you wouldn't have to dig it up. You would just leave it in place and you know disconnect it.
Um and eventually it would just kind of it you know just everything would just absorb into the soil. >> Uh so >> Matt, excuse me. I want to go back to uh your scheduling
ideas of summer not having school programs and I believe there there are school programs in that building. I don't know if it's fully enrolled but by the nature of it serving uh special needs students those services do run 12
months. >> Yeah, there's a special ed there's a summer program that runs all summer long. Yeah, I mean there's there will be disruption to the school. There's no question. Whether we're tying into municipal sewer or we're coming up with
a temporary solution, there's going to be some period of of downtime. And I don't think it's that long, but you know, I would think a project like this could could easily be accomplished over a summer. And and
my guess is that for that particular period, whether it's summer or it's or it's some other time, there would have to be some other solution to the use of that building for that time because the we'd have to take the uh the sewer
offline to do it. So, it's my understanding that the new system would be installed and then you would reconnect the lines. >> Yeah, >> that's right. >> Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, I'm thinking that
they probably have a oneweek break in June and a oneweek break, you know, before school begins at the uh Labor Day. So, it's it's going to be just as disruptive in the summer as the fall as any other time. So, okay. >> Um, anyway, right there.
>> I have a question. Um, you say there shouldn't be vegetation in that area. So, if we keep that for the library building, um, isn't it going to be a problem in the future? >> No, because we would be hooking up into
the sewer into the public sewer and then the SE >> that's not going to be used at all then. >> No, just be a stop gap. So, is it just going to be filled or something? >> What exactly? >> Oh, you disin there. >> Okay. So, yeah. No,
>> it can't be uh filled because the building will already be on top of it, right? >> No, that's not the reason, but it's just it's a concrete thing. >> It's not like a gasoline underground storage. >> Yeah. It's not going to leak because it's not going to be used anymore.
>> Correct. >> Okay, Matt. So that that's all we have. This was a little bit of a a bomb to drop on you tonight. Um but we wanted to make sure that you were aware of it, you know, soon after we were and we wanted to make
sure that we had enough time to think about it and talk with our civil engineer about it before presenting it to you. Um again, we don't have answers per se, but but I think that there are probably a couple of solutions here. A
lot of it will come down to the timing of the sewer project. Um and and again we it's it's something that we need to capture in in the cost estimate uh in our documents and in the cost estimate so that um it's part of an overall
project plan and project budget. >> Okay. Thank you. Never a dull moment. >> Never a dull moment. >> Still with >> Yeah, that's all we have for tonight. Okay. But I don't want you to leave yet.
Um because our uh item number six has to do with communications and uh how we're going to direct communications. And when we began this project, we had a library director and
we had an assistant town administrator. And then um we moved into our orphan phase and now we are back with uh personnel. So David's here and
he will be here and we have Jay Grandandy who is filling in the gap. When we lost Bill and Jane, we kind of had communications going to
me and Tom just so it all came in to one place and and we were at least one of us was aware of what was going on. And then we had a slew of people at town hall that we were calling on willy-nilly, a slew of people
here at the library who were helping us out. But we want to clean things up. And that um that related to both Accenture and to Odinello. So I think we had pretty much
um Matt was kind of getting to me with his information and I was hoping Jay would be here. I did communicate with him earlier in the week. So I'm not I'm not sure. Matt, did
you have a conversation with Jay about communications? >> I I didn't. Um I had we we had a conversation with David. We had a call with David. >> Okay. >> Last week um to talk about just kind of library programming, but we talked about
communication in that meeting as well. >> Right. I knew that happened, but I I wasn't sure that there was a J. Did you talk to Jay? >> I did talk to Jay. >> Okay. So, can you fill me in? So >> um we didn't talk about that aspect. I
did mention to him while conversation I did mention to him about the discussion that you and I had had and Matt the discussion that you and I had had about kind of how we're channeling things going forward. So I think everybody's in agreement. >> I think when the new ATA comes on, you
know, she may be the other person or another person in this loop. Um, but I think for now, you know, what you and I had talked about, what Matt, what you and I had talked about in terms of kind of focusing things through, um, Judy and I was kind of where we agreed to move
forward. >> Okay. And I had kind of looped, um, Sandy in, but I think it's important. So Tim, for Accensure and Tom and I, Matt and David to be the key players. So
if we are exchanging information and then getting it out to where we need need to get it out to. So we get it out to, you know, US members and David gets it out to library people and
Jay would then talk to, you know, the IT people or whoever we need at town hall if he needs to talk to Bob or however where before we were skipping all over the place. Tom and I were talking to Bob and you know it was
it was a little messy. So, does that work for you folks? For you, Matt? >> Does. Yeah. >> Yeah, that definitely makes sense. >> And Tim. Okay. All right. Thank you.
All right. So, that was number six. So, I want to be respectful of people's times. It is 8:15. Because of our technology problems, we did a lot of our meeting and that will
have to be redone. I would maybe like to ask your permission to reapprove the minutes for September 25 and October 7. if we could do those agenda items and then uh quickly talk
about No, let's let's do our future steps while all these folks are on here. Okay. So, as far as future steps for our for this group, we need to bring this
to conclusion by December. I'm not sure what folks here can do. Um, aside from more outreach, I have to say our outreach hasn't been as
uh rewarding as we would have hoped. We did attend seaside festival armed with uh trifolds and good attitudes. But the attendance was very very heavy
on Saturday because of the beautiful weather and the bad forecast for Sunday and people were having a good time and buying their crafts and they really had no interest in talking to a municipal setup. they they wanted to have fun and
hear the bands. >> So, that really didn't get out to people and we need to figure out ways to connect with people better in the community.
So, I think that leads us to the outreach group having another meeting soon maybe, Linda. Does that work? Okay. and reviewing some new strategies because we're using the same
ones and we're me we're reaching the same people. >> So um in the past I think Matt you had given us some leads with the whole Eastam group and Linda has followed up
and met with those folks. So, I think we followed up with almost everything that you sent us. And before Bill left, he had pointed us to a website that was created for Mount Vernon, New Hampshire's
library project. And recently someone said to me, well, does the OPM have a role in this? So, sorry that just came right up, Tim. But, um, what kind of a role would you see in for the OPM to
have in increasing our outreach to the community? >> I mean, we can play whatever role you want us to, right? It's if I mean I'm not sure exactly you know kind of what the qu again like
if there's an event set up we can kind of put together the presentation we can put together you know the talking about it but you know without being in the community I don't see us playing a huge role in the you know physical you know outreach of hey there's an event going
on if that makes sense. >> Um say I might not be fully understanding your question. >> Okay. Could you somebody state? Um >> I wonder Tim, do you have >> Let's go at the table. Tom,
>> do you have maybe prior examples of other projects you've worked on where you've noticed or have participated in community outreach and could toss them our way? >> Yeah, we definitely can. I I I know of a
couple off the top of my head where again there's a lot of you know kind of community meetings. Um >> yeah, >> but from at least from my understanding I I was not personally on the project. Jen was actually on the project so she would have some more information on it but it seemed as though those you know
th those meetings were already kind of a pre-established meeting before this project was going on. And again they just like the team went and presented at these said meetings. you know, it wasn't a select board meeting, but you know, kind of equivalent to that degree.
Um, I mean, I I can certainly ask around and get some more feedback. I mean, again, did we lose them? >> It looks like they're frozen. >> Yeah. >> Hold on. We froze again. We got him back for a second there. But
>> can you guys hear us? Nope. Um, I will text and Judy and just let them know they're present. >> Statement with the planning committee. >> You're back. Okay.
>> Okay. Okay. We froze, but Susan has a table. >> Different point of view on on community outreach. Uh not that it's not important, but we did the vision statement. I did the long range comprehensive plan with it. >> People will pay attention when there's an action point that will draw their
attention to it. Like when you appear in front of the board of selectment, >> my neighbors watch that. They wanted to hear what was going on. Then they put it aside until you come back up in front of the board of selectment again. um they don't they're not necessarily involved in the particulars. They want to know
how it's sort of being accepted by the board of selectmen or the select board I think they're called now. Um and and when and then they'll see like like a project, you know, I mean progress. It's really really hard to engage the citizens of this town. um they just are
uh you know the best engagement we had was with accessory growing units and that's because it had a real estate impact on everyone's assess but up to that point they will pay attention when they find out that you're going to you like I think in the minutes it says they want to have a public meeting again on
November 4th for the board of selectment >> that was our old minutes but that was then we went >> but they but they still want to have some sort of public I know forest was very intentive on some sort of public. >> You dropped it. >> You dropped it. >> So, we're not doing anything like that.
Then then you're just going to have to rely on the December. Uh, and now I think you know, you continue to do what you're doing. I don't know what else you can do. Quite frankly, I think you've done a phenomenal job. Um, I don't know what else you can do. You just have to keep being persistent. Use your use your
your homeowners associations, use your neighborhood associations, use the school, keep your trifle up to date, and just go forward. Um because it's it will, you know, when the vote comes in November when we have the, you know,
Yeah. >> Yeah. Public outreach is not going to have much to do. It's going to all be dollars and cents and who's supporting it and who isn't. I think you've done a good job with public outreach. I really have. Um, it was viewed for a long time as just sort of the library group. It's
not that anymore. It's a citizen, you know, participation group. Um, I'd continue what you're doing. Be persistent. Uh, anytime you can give an update in front of selectment, I would take the opportunity to do it because people do pay attention to those meetings.
>> Yeah. >> And use that as an entree to sort of beef up your But I would not I wouldn't run around. you know, you've got your uh Kathy's got the list of all the homeowners associations at least in West and we send those we send the notes out religiously and it's like oh thanks but
when they go in front of the board of selectment they want to know what's happening because that's like a decision makingaking mechanism to them >> okay >> so I would I I think you want to keep focusing on the program the financing refining the program so that when the
time comes you have to justify this you've got everything you've got everything in line Okay. Thank you, Susan. John, >> so the only thing with that, Susan, is then timeline before the spring town meeting
to accept well to get >> 26, >> right? To be able to say the library says, "Thumbs up Yaboth. You want to do there would have to be something before that because anything they did with Macartha >> Yeah.
>> would never be able to be said. So that's a big long meeting to try to >> it's a long but I'm not saying don't do anything you don't do any special events but I don't think you ought to talk yourself into oh my god we have to do a ton of public outreach you don't everyone is aware of what's going on
with the library everyone knows what happened with the prezles um why because it happened at at board selection meeting the lady got up at the podium and said gee we got a problem here um so but I think that just get through December try to get to try to meet your
December deadline, make sure the board of selectman knows, they will pay attention and then we can figure out what to do January, February, and March. Um, and that will require a lot because then you're going to have figures. Then you're going to have the the come to Jesus meeting about what's this is going to cost, >> right? Okay. I think Matt wanted to say
something here. >> Yeah, I I had a question. Um, we had I think identified two community meetings. We've had one. We had one in August and I thought the intent was always to have a second one. We had I think we had one actually scheduled for November 4th,
which I don't know if that still makes sense, but um do you guys anticipate another presentation to the community with an update of where we are like we did to the select board? >> We the second one we had scheduled for
October 18th or somewhere around that time. >> Is that what it was? >> Okay. >> Yeah. But we decided to cancel >> days ago. Yeah. October 14th. >> October 14th, whatever it was. So, >> okay. >> Should we have another one?
>> Well, we had we had >> August in August. >> Oh, really? >> And then we had a a a listening session. So, we had one that was just one session and then we had that amm.
>> Correct. So >> the listening the listening session is when we >> did site >> site and then you did the double session. I think the other one was another double session scheduled for this o for October.
>> There was well was two days ago but then they said don't bother. >> Yeah. The select board said don't do it. >> Don't bother. >> Okay. Um so uh we'll get to Mindy and then back to you Matt. Mindy, >> um, when we do this community outreach again, is there a way to connect with
the families and with children because they're the ones that are expressing missing out in the meetings because of the timing. They know less about the project because they can't attend the meetings. They can't >> although we didn't collect that last time, but you're having a meeting at two and and >> we had the two outreach sections,
>> but they were both well attended. Correct. >> I know the one I went to was well attended. >> Very well attended. evening >> a little less. So, >> really? >> Yeah. >> Um, so what are they saying? When do
they want us to be available? >> School pickups. They start lining up for school pickup at 2:30. So, they can't do a meeting from 2 to 3. So, it' have to be even earlier in the day to do one for parents and accessibility. >> Well, we started it. >> Did we start early?
>> Okay. It was a later one. started early at noon and then you did one at 7:30 >> but it was summer. >> It was summer >> and you know so but we can be a traveling show. I mean, we can go to where people are that I think it's hard
to hear about the time when we adjusted it and like I was willing to go to the camps and >> hand things out, but >> having something to school auditorium, >> they've already had back to school night, right? >> They already had all the open houses and
I had stuff out at the open houses, but once again, they have so little time to stop by and read anything >> and open. Okay, Vicki, >> I have a question. Um the seaside festival that we went to, it was pretty uh okay in in the morning and later in
the day it was so windy and like people weren't like giving us any attention at all. But we gave out like a couple of flyers and flyers are great but like I work at a school so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to be giving out anything. >> Yeah. You is thereformational things.
You would have to run them by your principal. >> She's she's in Dennis Dennis. Yeah. DY schools. >> Yeah, Dennis Yarmouth district. So, >> so there's Yarmouth. >> So, I've been thinking, am I allowed or am I not? Because I >> just run it by your principal >> and super usually it goes through the
superintendent too, >> but they've they already cleared. >> Yeah, >> they're okay with that >> with our Yeah, with the earlier stuff they just said. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> So, specific questions or concerns >> they are receiving. They know very little information that
>> and they can't >> they must be just saying that >> they can't attend >> who has no kids at all and is 87 knows about the library project. How do these parents say they don't know about >> what is the conduit that we're missing to the parents? I guess that >> I think in the parents defense they're
more focused on what's going on with their child versus what's going they're not so much focused on what's going on. >> Yes. Generally people in ter feel that way you know >> and the um we had the idea of doing lawn signs but the funding for that never
material no was approved >> but where does it come from to place the order so >> well I don't know the work is within the town but Bob said you could do it so however you requisition something it doesn't need to come out of library
operating it should it he said he would cover it >> it should be a town it should be a administrator. >> Definitely a town administrator. So, so David, if you could run heard on that. So, they were lawn signs that just
had the QR codes on that. >> We have public access televisions in this town. >> Yes. >> Can't we just run something on a on a loop? >> Probably. Yep. and and maybe go on on public access and just do, you know, a short
couple of us go on. >> You said we could do a um a podcast or something. I think this should go on the outreach agenda >> um to beef this up and this would have been Jay Jay may have had more for this
>> man there there are a couple of good examples out there of uh kind of promotional videos that have been done or did one >> for the snow library which was >> kind of establishing the need um I just
saw one recently for uh what library was it? It's on the Cape not far from you. Uh that's doing a new library. Um I'm blanking on on which library it was, but it was a library that has gone
through the design process and the video kind of showcased the design and talked about, you know, what it was going to do for the community. Um I thought it was well done. It was professional. >> Okay. Um and we do have those
capabilities. I'm just at a loss I on h how to do any of that. We have the professional people in the town who can do that. They're >> busy. Uh but we need to be able to tell
them what do we want? What do we want to go on the radio? What do we want? Yeah. What's our message? >> And we're not PR professionals, so we need a little help with that. But like Matt said, that that lean video I think is incredible.
>> It is very good. Yeah. >> You don't need to do much more than >> tell the story. >> Was that the one that was possessed again? >> No, they said they're >> library. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Broadcasting media is uh could help
>> maybe for free. >> Maybe one of the ladies there is message. What do these parents want to hear? >> Yeah. I that would say, "Oh, let's let's listen and see what this is." >> Yeah, that's I think that's the thing. >> What do they need to know? >> No, I think a video would be a great
help in getting that out to the parents. Quick, short information that they can watch all at one time and then >> shows finding a way for them to get um attendance at at voting is >> Yeah, there you go. >> That's Yeah.
>> What's the end game? But yeah, I think just having the the quick short things we could share on social media, the videos, the websites, and having that will cover a lot of the bases as opposed to having to dig through all the information to find >> they want actual information like the size of the building, that kind of
thing. What >> probably a summary of kind of as much as we can give them as much information that works in a quick little presentation. It could be more than one, too. Well, I mean equally, however, I think you have to get to a place where you have something a lot more
>> finished, if you will. Right now, we are not at the stage if we're if we are >> the whole purpose is to pres present an image to people in a sort of very easily digestible form. You need to have the form. And I think the the crux of the
issue right now is that we're not really there. So, we're there there's still a lot of hypotheticals here. We don't have a lot we have a lot of, you know, we don't have final renderings. We don't have, you know, these are the things that people are going to want to know that can be distilled down very quickly
to a message that they can understand without, you know, digging through. There's a ton of information on the existing website, but it's only the sort of thing that's going to appeal to someone who has the time and energy to bore through all. >> We need something when the when we have
something that, you know, once we get to the point where we're submitting renderings, then I think we can really talk more clearly about what it is that we're putting because we'll have something that's like this is it. This is what it looks like. This is >> we know what we have in in the two
libraries. We know what we want. You you have a new library that's going to give you all the things that the current two libraries don't give you. Light, there's no light, right? I mean, being able to easily access all areas without, you
know, people with mobility, all that's going to be in the new building. You don't need clear renderings to know the improvements of how you're going, right? You again, and even with the flies, it's a building on. You need to get that
excited that says, "Here's what we have, but here's what we're going to possibly get." And and that's how I viewed what Orleans did. here's everything we have, but here's what we could get. So we again, you got to get them excited for
what is to come. Because again, they're either happy with what it is or they're not necessarily happy because I can't go down the stairs, I can't do this, I can't do that, I don't see any light, what am I going to do? Those are all the things you want people to get excited about. And you don't need final
renderings to do that. or else they're never, as Susan said, they're not going to get excited till at the end of the day when there's a final decision being made. The people will get excited who want to get excited. Other people >> you never may be able to access it.
>> Yeah. I think people will get on the train at different places at different stations and some people are not, you know, the people who want to dive into all the nittygritty and where we've been, they're already, we already have them. And then as we go further, we pick
up more people. Um, and I think those are the people you want to get, John, is show them what we have and if you're interested, you'll get on the train. Whether that's to vote yay or nay. I'm not saying it's only positive, but
some people just need more. They need more to see. They need more to touch. They needed >> Hyannis. Hyannis was the other uh library that I was trying to think of that that I saw a video recently. I don't know if anyone has seen it, but it's it was very well done.
>> And and to David's point, that video, unlike the Orleans video, happened kind of more towards the end of the process. They had a a finished product. They had renderings. They it was clear what they were doing. Um, and and but but you
know, Judy, I think like you said, people >> kind of enter the the story here at different points. And I think you I could imagine a kind of two different promotional videos. One that happens sooner that is about the need and then the other one that happens at the end as
David is describing that is more about this is what we are proposing, you know, and that and that's more about getting support in advance of Springtown meeting, I think. >> Yeah. and and and there's also I mean there's there's there's two kinds of outreach. There's outreach to the community to support the project um you
know at town meeting you know with with taxpayer dollars but there's also outreach to you know by a foundation or whatever you guys set up as your fundraising arm to do the private fundraising that is a a required part of
this grant formula. Um, so there there there are different ways that that outreach should be approached and the way that you approach donors is probably different than the way you're trying to appeal to the general public.
>> Very true. Very true. Okay. Um, I am going to retract my request to redo the minutes and we've been here for a while and in the interest of fatigue and
>> well so that's what we need to set up. So I would like to set up two if we can see >> and we'll just clean up everything at the next meeting. >> Uh, yeah. And in the interim, I would like to have the outreach people
um me. So, you want to stick to Thursdays? >> Yeah. So, that would be the 30th. >> The 30th work for folks. >> What time? >> Yeah. Well, let's go back to six. Does six o'clock work? >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Um, >> earlier if possible. >> Yeah. Why was it six? Were we waiting? Oh, >> dork. We couldn't get >> that four. >> Okay. So, you're good.
>> That was the library. >> Yeah. Oh, that was tonight. Yeah. >> I crashed it. >> So, six o'clock on the 30th. Yes. All right. Um, and then let's set up one for November.
So, the 13th, >> the special time meeting is on the 17th. >> Right. >> Right. That's exciting. >> Offices and votes. >> 13th. >> Okay. 11:13 at 6 o'clock. also
>> okay >> and both here at the library. >> Yeah. So, do we need to do anything about this tech the tech issues? I didn't have my computer this evening. I had gotten it all worked out with the issue. Um, >> so you actually kind of put this together with the band-aid and some
chewing gum. Okay. >> Yeah. Well, >> and the and the time between the two meetings didn't leave time to check anything to get everything extra set up. And it was a perfect storm this evening of >> you did it. So thank you. >> You did a good job.
>> Got there. >> Put that on your resume. Other duties as a son. >> Any closing? Okay. >> That's my assumption. >> All right. Uh thank you Ma and Matt. Nice to meet you Jonathan. >> Hey Tim.
So we are going Can I have a motion? >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second sir. Thank you. >> All in favor? Hi. >> It's good to know. >> Okay. Thank you. Meeting adjourned. >> Bye >> everybody. >> Good night everybody. >> Thanks expert. This is all proprietary
information. So you should take this. >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. >> We can shred those. >> You have a shredder here. >> Okay. These are extra minutes