Welcome to the regular library building committee public meeting of November 13th held at 6 o'clock at the South Yarmouth Library and we're going to begin with our roll call attendance.
Uh so I'm going to start on this side please. Tom Pendleton and I'm not remote and I'm here tonight. Yay. >> Susan Brido planning committee. >> John Greco. >> Jo Lre. >> Andy Harrington
Tarver. I'm the chair of the meeting. Thank you everyone. Uh this is a hybrid meeting and that's our announcement. Thank you. Uh we're going to move into our housekeeping for minutes of October
16, 2025. This was the meeting where we had a bunch of uh is this the one we had no technical problems. And so we >> started the meeting basically at 7 o'clock by the time we got things
straightened out. And uh Sandy captured that pretty nicely here. Are there any other corrections comments? >> Oh, Tom, it was Tom remote again. >> Panelist. David,
>> we want to promote to panelist. >> Yeah, I didn't see why not. Okay, anyone else? Okay, so I need Oh, >> did you have a Oh, okay.
All right. Can I have a motion to accept uh the minutes as submitted, please? >> So move. >> Thank you. >> Second. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Uh and we have to do a roll call vote. Um
all in favor, John. >> John I. >> Susan. >> I >> I thank you. Motion passes. minutes are approved for October 16th. And then let's move to minutes for
October 30. Um, and then I had this one of Mindy because she was remote and quiet, but she was listed as absent, so she just needs to be as an attendee. >> Anyone else have anything
>> on these minutes? Okay. Uh, so can I have a motion to accept these minutes >> as amended to? >> Yes. >> As amended. >> I move to accept the October 30 library committee meeting as amended.
>> Thank you, Susan. And second, >> we'll give that one to John. >> All right. And we'll do a roll call. Hello. Uh Tom, >> hi >> Andy. >> Hi >> Susan. >> Hi >> John. >> Hi >> Dorcas. We're voting on the minutes of
October 30. >> Thank you. Motion carried. >> All right. Let's get those things taken care of and welcome Matt. >> Hi everybody. Yeah.
>> Um, did you guys promote MA? >> I just saw that one. I got her right now. >> Great. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, who else do we have up there? Tim and Bob. >> Hi, everybody. >> And Libby. >> Hi, Bob.
>> Hi, everybody. >> Hello. >> Hello. >> Hi, Ma. Hi, Libby. >> Hi. >> Okay. All right. So, we're going to move uh to public comment. And
let's see. Linda, do you have anything at this point? I might invite you to the table at the um aspect for outreach possibilities. But if you have anything else at this point has materialized yet for the
fundraising, we have something scheduled for Monday. And so when that happens, there'll be a lot more to talk about. Wonderful. Thank you. Okay. Can we move into item four, which is program update? So there's been a lot of activity on
program with MA and David and let's see who else was involved in that. Both of you in the program phone calls and maybe Mickey. Okay. So um then there were some nodes
and then those got modified a little bit too. >> Okay. Well well there was your there was MA's notes and then you had no >> Yeah, that was a follow on. So I guess I can start and then Ma, you
know, jump in or however you want to do it. Okay. >> And obviously maybe Joe. Um, so we met, we being the library staff, um, including me, uh, met with Libby on the 31st.
We had a very lengthy and intense afternoon. Um, we met for about four and a half hours. Uh, first we discussed the, um, community areas of the building and then, uh, we kind of broke out into groups. Mindy and I worked with Ma and
Libby on the youth services area and then in the afternoon um Joe Mica Libby and I worked on the adult services area building. So um very productive. If you've had the chance to look over the notes, we really covered
quite a lot of ground. Um, you know, I don't know if anyone has any specific questions, but we've we've really moved a long way in terms of um identifying certain concerns that we had around uh, you know, securing the
community wing that's we're still sort of working on something for that. You talked about the kitchenet and sort of the things that it would be used for. Um, Mindy had a lot of thoughts about the size of different areas of the children's room. Um, the need for more
storage. That was a real concern. Um, Ma and Libby were able to see kind of some of the stuff that Rebecca used to get a better sense of how much volume there is. Um, and uh, we moved the
um, it's called the nursing room, >> lactation room. Yeah. Yeah, we rearranged that um and you know a whole bunch of other things in that area. We talked about the exits what whe
how things would whether there would be um any type of emergency exit off of the deck on the on that part of the building because it is at grade and and how we might address that. um the need for uh you know a sink and some other things in
the story hour room for food programming. >> That's a larger story time room. Yep. Yep. So um let me see. Oh yeah, moving the door it right. It was it was sort of in the middle of the wing, moving it to the end of the wing so that you know for
security and and some other things. Um, one of the things that came up that we hadn't really talked about or or thought too much about was with the revised staff area. Um, we kind of reviewed the need for offices, which was a big part of the follow-on meeting that Joe and I
had because I don't think it was anything we'd really thought about. And so, we had to spend a bunch of time after that meeting kind of thinking about how many staff we might have in a given day, what their schedules would be like, what kind of, you know, off public desk space, workspaces they might need.
So, we we spent a bunch of time after that. I'll get to that in the follow. Um and we talked about the uh circ desk. Um we removed the um selfch checkouts kind of revised the printing area to
make it easier for the staff to help the patrons because that's something we do early all day. um uh adding a second area for either with um more public computers or for people with like
laptops in proximity to the print station if they want to just come down, plop a laptop down and make some prints, you know, something like that. Um we talked about study rooms, being able to view into the study rooms and some of that stuff if we have some concerns. um the location of the
reference desk uh whether it might be moved in the wing um and that was a bunch of so and then yeah that was a lot of and some other things we also kind of reviewed um what had
happened at our normal meeting so that was uh was very productive very tiring um so then we kind of were left with some homework um a lot of which was around um the offices and some of the other details.
So uh so we then met the next week all of us kind of as a staff and individually um to talk about different areas of the building we had concerns about. Um and out of that I put together some of these notes that we then forwarded to Ma and
Libby prior to our meeting which was on November 7th and that was just with Joe and I because uh Phoebe and we're away. Um, so talked a lot about the book drop. We've got a couple of theories on that. It is going to be built into the building. We do want a bookdrop room.
Um, but we're not the location is still a little bit up in the air. Um, talked about the layout of the staff work room. Norwell has a specific layout, so we kind of wanted to go with that. >> Um, and like and then we talked a lot about uh offices, you know, how many we
need. Right now we're thinking um I guess I get an office. um office for >> um we need an office for Toby. Um and then you know an office for the circ supervisor. There's a an existing um
staff conference room that I think you would turn into like multi-use for uh multiple circ staff members like three or four desks in there. Um the configuration of the technical services area going to be kind of a U. Um, one of
the bigger changes was adding a reference office behind the reference desk so that somebody could work there um, when they're you know off desk time. Um, talked about youthful services library of things storage. Um, an
additional office for a futurist director just because that probably will be in the next someday 20 years. um kitchenet equipment and bulletin boards. And then we actually did talk at some length about
access to the building because then when Joe and I met with um and living reviewed many of these details and uh whatever. So that's most of what I have. I turn it over to La and Libby because they probably have their thoughts on
>> Okay. So it looks like Libbyy's teed up here. change. >> Oh, hi Ma. >> Hi. Hi there. Um I I think it'll be easier for us to discuss um if I just show the plan and show how we've
integrated everything. Um with the caveat that this is still very much a work in progress and we've tried to fit everything in that we can but um but we're yeah we're still tweaking things and you know trying to make things work.
So let me just share my screen here. All right. Is everyone seeing that? >> Great. Okay. So, um >> this is just a look at the at the last time that you guys saw the um building
plan. Um and uh sorry I just wanted to highlight some of the areas that are were in particular particularly in question. The reference desk here um the staff area obviously
needs to grow quite a bit. um with some tweaks to this wing because of um moves of the friend's room and then integrating the bookdrop area and then we've made some changes to the organization and dimensions of the
children's wing. Um so this is the new um configuration that we're working on. Um, >> again, nothing has moved dramatically, but we've just tried to integrate all the changes into each each wing. Let me
zoom into the >> um working plan. I'll start in the area where there's the least changes potentially so that we can talk about them one by one. So, we moved the friend's back of house um back of house
space to the front. So, it's directly adjacent to the friend store which we closed. So, now there's a direct relationship there. >> Um, we haven't had a chance to look at seating and how that might work, but um we've moved the the
um door to the children's and teens wing out um to the lobby end so that that wing can be um shut down in cases of emergency or just for better control. So, as you step into that wing, the
teen's room is mainly untouched. We've just shifted where the teen's desk is. So, there's a direct line of sight between the teens desk to the children's desk through the YA workroom. And there's access from the um YA work room to both children's and teens. And then
the office is directly behind that. Um we can potentially put a window in that office. This is a comment from the MBLC. put a window from that office into teens so there's more oversight if someone was working in that office. Um we've added a
storage room um but directly behind the circulation desk and adjacent to all the staff spaces which is um just slightly larger than the spaces that we measured on site with Mindy. Um when we totaled up everything it came out to be about um
265 ft. So this room right now is about 280. So it will meet your current needs. Um >> but we should talk about whether we need to plan for growth. Um so the we're still showing this um story
hour um space in the >> towards the rear of the building >> with the potential to have a um an outdoor space here, but this could shift. We're still looking at the best configuration for that. Um
um the other change we made which we need to run by you in particular Mindy is that it seemed like there was some conflicting ideas about um whether a mother's room or a nursing room is necessary and how much it would get used
and um I I made a decision to combine the sensory room with a comfort room so that potentially a space that's not always in use can be um can do double duty for that function. So, first of all, it's it's close to teens and
children's, but um also close to the to the exit to of the wing, so that if for instance, if you had staff or other patrons that needed to use a mother's room, they could um just walk right in the door here. Um and that opens up the rest of the children's space without
that sort of interruption of that room, which may or may not get used. Um, I think that's it for that area. Oh, nope, that's not true. Um, we looked at the size of the story hour and multi-purpose room um because Mindy was
concerned that um the room that's currently in use for programs for children's um are occupying a larger space. Um, we tested, you know, actually 42 seats in that room and they did work
um, in a sort of auditorium style seating and a more of a radial pattern that might work for a story hour. So, we did find that that room was sufficient for that purpose, but um, we should probably talk a little bit more um, about the number of tables that need to
be um, accommodated. Right now, obviously, we're seeing six, um, which fit pretty nicely, and added, uh, a counter with a fridge, which is not currently shown in plan, but basically added that counter space with extra storage.
Um, yeah, I believe that's it for that wing. And then if we move up to adults. Um >> MA before you leave that wing. So there there would be a refrigerator under the counter in that story hour room.
>> Uh probably a full fulls size fridge. >> Okay. What's there going to be another refrigerator somewhere in there? >> N children's >> elsewhere in the building. >> Elsewhere in the building, but not in that wing. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. There's a kitchen
adjacent to the auditorium that's for use during programs. Um, but it's a little bit of a distance and we're to understand that there's quite a few children's programs that have um food um programming. >> Then is there a refrigerator for staff?
>> Yes, there's also a um a break room in the staff, >> right? So there are three refrigerators. >> There are three. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, okay. So, go moving up to staff, we didn't make dramatic differences other
than um we flipped the study individual study rooms so that they're all facing the desk so there's more oversight and and eliminated the the internal corridors so that there's a direct line of sight from the reference desk into
those rooms. Um it does create a little bit of uh sort of dead space in the plan and um the MBLC has raised some questions about whether sort of uh facing outwards and having the door
behind you is acceptable to um the staff. So we should talk about that. Um we know that you requested an office directly behind the reference desk. Um but we did try that and we felt that
um the the flow of the space is interrupted by that room and the sight lines are also interrupted. So if you think about the sight lines through the space, if we put a room right here, you basically get this um area you can't see behind that um from circulation is if
every if someone was all with at the reference desk, it might be a little bit different, but it also just basically interrupted the um free circulation down the wing. So right now we've relocated the reference librarian's office here. Um if that
feels okay, we can continue to show it this way. Um we can also add that, you know, off circulation desk space to the larger staff room. Um but we should talk about this as well.
Um everything else is pretty much the same in adults. Um and then if we go down to the >> Y can I stop you again? Uh so back to your comment about the reference desk
and where the small study rooms are and you were saying something about which way the staff were facing. >> Oh not the staff the actual users of the room. So if you the MBLC has um called
this out as a question mark for um the operation of the building. So right now we have we these were intended as single user rooms but we can fit two people. And the last time we had a conversation about it was the intent was that it
would be like a a single person using it as a phone room or as you know working on a laptop at a at um at a counter or table. And the idea was that we could potentially increase the occupancy to two um
>> so that for instance if people were working together or if um they were having a call together or something like that it would work. Um I think the MBLC is concerned that this is less flexible than having a table and chairs
freestanding kind of like in the larger group study rooms. Um, >> and that perhaps that, you know, having the the um having the entry behind you might uh I don't know be uncomfortable for
patrons. So, it's just something to raise. Um, you >> know, I'm understanding. >> Why would it be uncomfortable? >> I I >> I think they're I think they're just concerned about, you know, if you're in that room, you can't see who's approaching the room. So,
>> you know, could somebody come in without you sort of being aware that they were about to do that? I think it was just it was more of a kind of occupant comfort issue for them than it's not an issue of supervision by staff or anything like
that. I think it was more about the the level of comfort of the people in the room having their back to the door and not not seeing sort of behind them. >> You anticipate the doors to be locked? No, I don't think that we can allow for locked doors.
>> Okay. >> Um, is it would it be a design problem to turn the if they have a built-in counter or desk to turn it to the side so that the person is sitting sideways to the door? Is that
>> um we can the dimensions of the room might need to change but yes we can >> or could the number so what are there six? >> There are six. Yeah. >> Six. So what if there were two set up
that way and three that were a little larger that had tables in them? >> Well, we have two rooms that are exactly what you just said. Um, so we have three sizes of rooms. We have the large meeting room. We have two group study rooms meant for four. And then
>> the intent that we talked about previously was that we had six rooms that were individual study but could accommodate two. >> Right. We um the library I came from had a setup similar to that. We only had two, but the desks were like on the
side. The person was sitting sideways to the door. They worked really well. People liked them. So, I mean, I, you know, again, I'm not saying we have to go that route at all, but operationally they, we never had any complaints about people feeling boxed in or and they were
they were truly single person rooms. They were very small. So, >> Okay. Well, I mean, >> my understanding is that you're saying if if the counter were on the side, just because the clearances with the door opening and having accessibility
requirements, then the dimensions of those small rooms would have to change. Did I understand that correctly? >> Um, they might. Um, we just need to take a look. Um, >> is there such a thing as like a fold down counter that
>> I mean the MBLC actually prefers freestanding tables for true flexibility, although I'm not sure what you would use these rooms for other than what they're being used for because they're quite small. >> Yeah. So,
um, but >> you know, we can look at a couple of different layout options, both, you know, flipping the desk to the side, David, as you're suggesting, which as Ma said, might require us to widen each of the rooms slightly. So, we can
look at that. We can also look at what it would take to get a freestanding table with two, you know, opposing chairs in each room. That's going to I think require a greater increase in width. But we can look at both of those and see what the impact is to the
overall. It means you know mica if you zoom out it means that the length of that um kind of block of rooms along the side gets longer putting a little pressure on say periodicals or um or the area that's below the large
study room. So, we can we can look at it, but there's there's probably a little bit of flexibility in terms of how much those rooms could grow to accommodate different seating arrangements. >> Okay. I don't want to belver it. Thank you.
>> I think for us maybe the bigger um question that that would be helpful to get some feedback on is the reference librarian. Um, you know, as MA said, we looked at it behind the desk as initially requested and for the reasons
that she stated, we moved away from that. It's also worth mentioning that if we put an office behind the desk where that desk is now, it's a fixed element in this otherwise long open space that
um it it has I think circulation and sighteline issues now, but it also impacts potential flexibility like if you know right now the reference desk is located sort of between non-fiction and and fiction collections as I understand
it. So that that fixed object, that room kind of draws a line in the sand and says this is, you know, this area is always this thing and this area is always this other thing. Um and and it doesn't give you the the flexibility to sort of expand and contract the
different areas. Um so we just felt like there was greater flexibility if we untethered it from the desk. And so David, I guess the question is, is that is that a workable solution in your view?
>> Yeah, that that's fine. I mean, really, I was imagining this as a very small like single person occupancy, you know, like basically something not significantly larger than one of the study rooms. I mean, it looks like what
you've designed is substantially larger, which is fine. Um but if you feel it um impacts you know replace the placement of periodicals or anything else then by all means you know it doesn't need to be quite so large. Um I I think really the
intention was just to give the person some offes space to work. I think originally my thought was that the person could potentially be in there supervising someone on the desk if they had to. But the reality is that um there would have to be someone. I'm imagining
that there would have to be someone on that desk at all times anyway. So, it probably doesn't matter if the, you know, if the person is a short distance away. >> Okay. >> I don't really think that impacts anything. >> Okay, great.
>> Does it make sense for their off desk space to be integrated into the staff area and include them with the rest of the staff instead of being sort of isolated? I don't know just because I'm right now
we do have a vacant position for that the person in that role but I'm imagining that they I don't know I think I like the idea of them being available because I'm if if we go the thought on this is that um we're going to sort of
shift to a more shift model where instead of currently people spend basically all of their day on the public service desks and we would have more, you know, on and off desk time. But I think the idea of having the reference librarian accessible um to
whoever's working on that desk because it probably wouldn't be another librarian, I think is a really good thing because just the kind of questions that person might get, you know, the person who's on that desk, I mean, it might be a situation where, hey, let me just run over and get, you know, whoever
the librarian is to help you with that. So, um, I think that that probably makes more sense from a functional perspective. >> I guess the way I was thinking of it too, the tasks that that person would be doing are kind of solo tap and not
necessarily communal tasks that would need to be near the other staff activity area. >> Yeah. And I think there's a lot of I think I mean I won't speak for Joe and Mindy, but you know I think we all appreciate the value of having somebody
in the area because if all of a sudden a whole crowd of people comes in and you need a hand, the ability to get somebody over to help you quickly. >> Um I think that that gives us that option whereas this person would be really isolated. If you know if the
reference person is is in the staff area then you know you could page them or something but it might be several minutes before they get there instead of just walking over or whatever you do to get them over to help you. So >> there is a need for a discrete place for
a reference library too to talk about sensitive issues with patron. So >> would there be a window so that if somebody's in that office they can see if >> store or something like that >> there could be
>> we haven't actually um double checked the the shelving counts. These are sort of conceptual at this point. So for continuity we were just showing shelving up against that wall but you could easily replace that with glaze a glazed portion.
Um, let's move down to staff. Um, so in deference to the conversation about deliveries and the fact that they might be coming through the front door, we changed the sort of the relationship of the desk and the door so that there is
sort of a direct line between the front door and back of house. Um so right now the the private offices are aligning the outside so that they're you know we're trying to prioritize giving windows to each of the staff members in a private
office. Um with the exception of the group workroom something need to be in the center but um as you walk in the door I know you described in when we spoke before of of having the um library of things directly behind
that wall. Um it seemed functionally like having the um delivery workstations um out of the line of that door made more sense. And then there was a direct relationship between delivery book
processing and technical services. And then the library of things is again directly inside the door. Um and I don't know how much it's accessed but we can talk about that relationship and if it should flip. Um, there's a sort of a wrapping desk right now, a closet
potentially for just small storage or for coats. And then there's a little print um print station right here. I don't know if you have a freestanding or desk um mounted printer, but um that could be either again flipped. Um the
work room for four is just basically, you know, four workstations. Um not not much else going on in that space. director's office with direct access from the public into the space and then a door to the staff suite. Um
>> and then we have a break room right here which is a little bit undersized at the moment but we can talk a little bit more about that later. um a slightly larger assistant director's office, which until that position is filled can be um um
another some for some other use or you could break up the staff into more than one office. Um this right now is the administration office that Toby's office technical services akin to the way Norwell was set up and the circulation
work room which we separated um because of a comment from the MBLC that the Joe might want to have a direct line of sight um out the door in into the circulation area. And then we have a small al cove that leads to the staff
restroom. Again, a small storage closet for coats or other things. And then a server room or potentially additional storage. So that's how it's looking at the moment. No. And then I'm sorry, we
incorporated the holds that you discussed, 12 ft of hold storage directly behind a desk. And then the circulation desk continues. There's a small piece here that could potentially be powered for self-service stations. So, it's adjacent to the desk. It could
be used for other things, but in the in the case that you end up wanting selfch check stations that are sort of um directly adjacent to um the desk without being completely connected and then I thought that that could be a good place for bulletin boards or some kind
offormational screen. And then we've re relocated the print station or print service station sort of directly in line with the circulation desk so that they can kind of do a a quick um step outside with just a little bit of room to
separate the two. And then we have the um six reference and um OPAC's if you want them. And then six um stations for people on laptops. So they're directly adjacent to the print station with easy access to circulation for help.
Um, so I don't know if we want to discuss these areas. >> I'd like to talk about the library of things and this is just the children's library of things. >> No, children's area. >> Okay. I thought I had heard somewhere in
there the children's. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else have anything in that uh staff area? >> Yeah. Well, I was they still have to do the other. Yeah.
>> Should we keep going or do you want to talk about staff or >> No, I don't I don't hear anything. So, let's keep going. Um, I I just want to say, Marica, I really like actually the idea that you kind of made a straight shot through into the room from behind the desk. I
think probably makes a lot of sense. I was thinking about it differently at the time, but I can see how rearranging it in this way could work very well. So, >> yeah. So right now if you were to access the the back entrance for some reason
there is a direct access sort of straight through um the ser sort of utility wing but straight through to staff potential co- closet and the same thing. So it's basically like at a junction um >> okay uh ma
>> y >> we have a question from John. >> So is there a maintenance or cleaning room at all? >> Yep. Um, so behind, so there's basically two single-user restrooms and then multi-stall restrooms here, a janitor's closet here. So you do enter the back of
house to get to that janitor's closet. >> And then, um, this is basically a service suite where you have, you know, a water service room, mechanicals, um, electrical, and other utilities. Right now, this is showing a really large corridor, which would not be the case,
but like I said, this is in progress, so we can fix that up. and we've um started engaging our consultants. So, we need to um have some feedback from them in terms of how big these spaces really should be. >> Anyone else before MA leaves this part
of the plan? Okay. >> No comment on any of the program or anything, but Jen is just in the um not the waiting room, but she's on the meeting. If she just get promoted to panelist, that would be much appreciated. Thank you. So, um, we also spoke at our program
meetings about being able to close off the, um, the community wing in in an expedient way. Um, there we got some feedback that there is some operation problems with the the mobile screen that's the security screen that's in
Norwell. So, we looked at some options like this. This could be a glass wall with a double set of doors that could easily be closed or locked. Right now, this is showing um a folding glass wall that you could basically push to the sides during business hours and then
close up during the day. We can talk more about options for that, but it basically closes off this wing if for some reason um there's no program going on. Uh it's a little tricky with the bathrooms. We have to talk about that a little bit more, too. But this is basically if you close this off this
entire wing becomes uh after hours community access with a door towards the end. Um we have the classroom here and multi-purpose room added some storage within the rooms and then um the way
we've integrated the book drop is when we when you first spoke about it um David the idea was to have this sort of end condition where there's a book drop um we got some red flags also from the MBLC on that in that um they've had some
issues with at other libraries where when there's programs going on in the auditorium and people drop off the books there's a acoustic um problem that you people can hear them coming in. >> Um the other problem operationally is that you obviously have to go through the auditorium so you might you know
have to open a locked door um and it's a longer walk. So we were thinking that there might be some way to integrate the program on this end. So you're, you know, the the drop off is over here and then you can walk undercover to the book drop and potentially have the lockers outside.
Um, so this is book drop here. Um, kitchenet for the auditorium and then storage >> you came up with here is actually exactly what we kind of I think had in mind. >> Okay. >> Not not this, but that that layout was I think kind of what we all were thinking
of. Great. I have a question. Would the lockers be available for pickup after hours or only when the library is open? >> I believe they were intended for after hours. So, it would be potentially
somewhere under this cover but along this building face or potentially on this end if there was >> the um storage room there. Is that intended to have the capacity for all
the tables that would be used in the gathering room auditorium I guess calling it? >> Yep. That's that's the intent. Um we just need to double check, you know, that all all the dollies are able to fit
um and the and the tables when they're nested fit in this room. I mean, it's a fairly generous room. It's 250 ft, but we'll just have to double check as we move along. >> I think that's the same size that we had in Norwell, which was
um David and Joe and Phoebe saw that when they visited. And it's pretty pretty generous. I mean, they're able to accommodate, forget how many tables, but all of the tables and chairs for a room of comparable size, plus some additional
space for, you know, I think there are some AV equipment in there. There's a number of other things. So, I think 250 ft is is ample for this space. Um, but we can study it more closely. >> Okay. Susan has a question. >> What is the difference between the
classroom and the multi-purpose or multifunctional room or whatever you call it? what is the difference? >> So, we've we've come to understand that um the conference room which is shown or multi-purpose room is is is more likely
to be used for meetings um town meetings. Anyone who has more of a conference style setup. We've um the conversations we had around that space where it's more it's most likely to um the furniture might shift um different
configurations be made. The classroom is seems to be more of a teaching space where people could be have laptops and more of a teaching environment um crafts things like that. >> Will classes actually be conducted at the library? >> So right now that would work as like the
Leonard room for adults and one for children so that we don't have that competition of use of space. So, this allows Sarah to be running an art program while I'm hosting a different art program for kids in the other wing. >> Those will be available at night.
>> The idea would be this would be a room like adult crafts or other things like that that we probably wouldn't want to do in the auditorium. >> They could be you could use poker >> for meetings or Okay. How large is the auditorium?
>> It's about 1500 square feet. >> How many seats? They've been back and forth with >> uh it's 120. >> 120. >> Okay. >> And there's one one just confirmation. The square footage hasn't changed. Just how you've reconfigured it. >> Correct.
>> And it's still still 24,000 square feet. The building is not getting any bigger. Correct. >> It the building has gotten bigger. Um >> it has gotten bigger. How much? Uh I think programmatically it should be hitting about
26,000 >> 200 or something like that. Um we're a little bit over at the moment, but again we're still tightening things up. But yeah, it has grown a little bit based on the feedback we've gotten thing um improvements to the staff area.
um some of the extra spaces like book drop and friends and um things like that. >> Maybe can I ask you one other question? What is the occupiable square feet? >> Um the net >> yes >> uh
that is an excellent question. Uh I think it's around 20,000. Hold on, let me just pull it up. >> Uh it's about 20,000. >> Okay. Okay. And of the 20,000, can you tell me uh in percentages what percentage is actually dedicated to
shelves with books? How much is dedicated to open space and how much is dedicated to support space? Just in terms of percentages. >> Uh that's that's a difficult question for me to answer off the top of my head. Um I could figure it out and get back to
you, but yeah, it is tricky. I can pull up >> if you could if you could just get that to Judy that would be fine. >> That would be great. >> Sure. >> Thank you. >> I'm sorry. >> Excuse me, Ma. Um, another question from Dora. >> Question. Yep.
>> When you were talking when you were talking about the classroom and the conference room, are you saying that if people were using the conference room, they would not be using laptops? because I can envision that an awful lot of meetings would have laptops. >> No. Um we'll design the rooms for
flexibility. So, um floor power if we need it. Um probably in both spaces. >> Okay, good. >> The the the furniture will be mobile. So, you'll be able to reconfigure. Um, we've just the impression we got from the staff is that the classroom is much
more likely to be a sort of stable space and it's so part of what's what's happened as we've reconfigured the building is that the classroom has to date been a smaller room and it's grown a little bit because
of the different needs of the building. Um, but they could essentially operate exactly the same way. >> Okay. And Susan follow the seats in the auditorium are they fixed? Are they are they so they so actually that space
could also be sort of a multi- >> purpose space if we had to you if you want to have a big reception or something you could use that space. >> Yes. So for the bigger programs we be using the auditorium for anything that's over like for children's we can see up to 45 right now. is anything bigger than
that, we'd move in there >> and the expectation the seats would go into that be able to be stacked into that storage room. >> We're sort of thinking that the multi-purpose room is like a true meeting room use sort of that's its primary focus whereas the classroom
would be more set up to be, you know, a flexible space for programming. >> Classroom, you know, we might call it a programming room as opposed to a >> classroom. Although it could be used for meetings if that was >> but if we think about it meeting like this could be held in the multi-purpose
room >> and some of our more popular groups that keep on coming back the sons of the revolution could have a meeting in the classroom or the multi-purpose room while Sarah's running our art program. So once again there's not that competition
or space. So, I guess what I'm hearing is um a question about the need for two different terms. Is there a need for two different terms for those two spaces? >> They seem to be reconfigurable no matter what you do. I mean, it's they're not
fixed. >> And the the classroom's a little bit larger than the multi-purpose room. >> They're they're basically the same size at the moment. um which was the intent of the original program document and
then um we kind of had some back and forth of it. One of them got smaller but they could essentially be two 600 foot rooms. >> Okay. Yeah. >> But so staff I guess do you see a a real need for two different terms?
>> And Bob also has stand up. >> I'm sorry. Bob has his hand up, too. Just ready. >> Oh, Bob, did you want to chime in here? >> Okay, I'm unmuting. Well, yeah. I mean I just had and and I know I think these
are issues that the designers are you know already considering strongly but I just wanted to you know chime in on a couple of points is that um you know a lot of these spaces especially you know the classroom spaces and a lot of the open spaces um you know I hope we can
continue to consider them as flexible as possible that I mean it's it's great to be able to factor in the types of programs that we use now but um I'm fully uh convinced that in the future with a facility of this quality that the
types of programs and the quality of programs that we're going to be offering is going to grow exponentially and I think that um you know the staff is going to you know depend um very mightily on having the flexible spaces
that um you know they can use to just ex expand the way that uh programs are even conceived of. So, um I I really like the idea of having the the flexible space. I wasn't sure if I I missed that you mentioned that between the two classrooms if um if if that wall was
movable so that you could essentially have um you know the the big room, two small rooms or or two larger rooms for a special event. That might be something worth considering. And um another thing I wanted to mention is that um
especially for these public spaces, the classrooms, the meeting rooms, um I I hope that we do everything we can to foster the highest degree of the technological ability in these rooms. I
mean, I envision them being used to um televise programs to um connect with the, you know, the outside world at at a very um you know, advanced rate from what types of things that we're doing now. And to have that um flexible space
with the programming capacity and the technology, I really think it would open up for um all of the wonderful new things that we're going to be doing with this facility. And um just a last thing on the last project that um I I worked
on um for library and I I've done a couple of them. Um, one thing we we built a beautiful library, but um, we forgot about, you know, the the friends came up with this program, you know, afterward that they uh, wanted to, you
know, start doing these major events and and book sales and then they wound up with a lot of gear and and, you know, we really wanted to um, you know, stimulate that and support it. But what wound up happening is we didn't build enough um
kind of flexible storage space so that we could give the um you know the friends an area to store all of their books and and things of that nature in between the sales. And um we wound up having to build a shed out out back to
for so anyways I I just was thinking that um the friends are going to do things that you haven't even thought of you know in the in the future because uh this library is going to attract uh you know tremendous outpouring of community
participation and support and um and so maybe that's just a thing for um I I know they're they're going to form and they're going to want storage, they don't want to participate. And so those are just a couple of comments I had. Thanks for listening to me.
>> Thanks, Bob. I'm going to um push this back to Ma so she can uh point out the friends areas because there are two and one is storage. >> So right now the the friends um sale book sale room is here. Um it's about
150 square feet and with shelving and glass wall and then there's a friend's back of house room which is about 200 square feet. So again has shelving space for storage. Um whether that's sufficient I think we would probably look for you all to tell us if that's
enough space. Um as we already discussed the building has grown a little bit. So, we we definitely want to give them what they need, but not grow the building too much if if it's unnecessary. >> Okay. I'm I'm going to ask Linda Callahan, who's here from uh and and Tom
are both from South Garm uh friends. >> No, go ahead. >> Well, essentially the 150 square feet is equal to the book sale area that we have now. And right now we have no other space for storage, meeting or anything
like that except in the basement where discards and things that are going to be given away uh are kept. Um so that it basically actually more than doubles what we have. As far as large book
sales, which many libraries do put on right now, we do not do that because it's very labor intensive. But typically it's used it's usually done in a large meeting room that's already in the library that's used for multiple things. So as far as predicting whether that's
going to happen that's you know anybody's guess as to whether we'll go back to that. Um whether you want to provide for that kind of space at this point in time. And I don't know how you could justify it because based on the program right now we have double what we
have >> right and I would think any large um book sale could happen in our auditori storage of books is another thing and to prepare for that I don't know how much space you want to put aside for that >> but with the book sale operation that
you do you want those things moving through so want it moving through and out. You don't want to be storing a lot of things and you also want it available to the public. Otherwise, you have to man it and have hours. >> And right now, that labor isn't built
into the operation. And it generates a good amount of revenue without doing it that way. >> We don't depend upon that as the major fundraiser to provide the money to give back to the library. >> Okay. Does that help? >> Yes. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Okay. All right. So, did we leave off in the community area? I'm not sure we uh got uh questions that were on people's minds for the community
area. Well, my question is still in the air, which is, is there a need to have two different terms for those two rooms, >> or do we want to go with multi-purpose room for both of them to kind of foster that idea? If you come up with an idea,
>> we have a room for it. >> I think it conotes more flexibility when you say multi-purpose. Classroom is kind of like a fixed more of a fixed environment. I think multi-purpose is >> more flexible. I think it's more sellable. It's more you don't like it. I
>> Oh, I I it goes either way. I don't if it's there. I mean, because eventually they won't have those necessarily those names like posted on the doors. So, that being said, I don't necessarily think the different names matter as much. in
the classroom gives ideas that we will be giving programs that are educational like the clam's library card program Phoebe runs girls that code could go in there with the laptop so it gives more of a learning opportunity where a
multi-purpose room to me is a more like fun space you go in there you can have a meeting which isn't really fun but you could go in there and learn a craft and so that the difference I I like having the classroom because it provides the education that the libraries. >> What about the wall between the two
rooms >> that had been discussed? Um, >> we discussed at one meeting I thought >> actually it may have been for you. >> Yeah, because we asked for pocket doors and whatnot and we got on Yeah, we got distracted that was like briefly
discussed. >> I remember being in a discussion on that >> Yeah. back a bit and that we had decided that for acoustics and so on and I think the other thing
was going back to Bob's idea for example if you had large screens in both of those rooms they may need to be on that common wall because you've got the the hallway wall with storage and door and then the window wall and so you have
limited wall space if that's accordion operating. >> But I think the biggest thing was the acoustic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That that's the conversation we had that those acoustic those um mobile partitions don't always operate that
well. It's another thing to break and the acoustics aren't great. So, if there's any kind of private meeting going on um between in either of those spaces or where acoustics are important or there's projected sound, um those
walls can be problematic. Um and the other thing I think we talked about was that the auditorium is a a large space that can have a large event. Um and that I think everyone agreed that it was
unlikely that there would be two um 1500 square foot events going on at the library at the same time that it would be possible to program the spaces so that if people need a large space they use auditorium. >> Okay, thank you for that recap.
So where do we sit on this now? Where are we with program? What do you see as next step? >> Well, um I think I think once you have time to digest and we give this presentation to
everybody that we'd be looking for feedback from David and all the library staff on the back of house and how it works and what needs to move, adjacencies, things like that. Um >> so there's that. Um any feedback on you
know adults and how it's working or children's and again adjacencies and if it's working or not working would be great. Um and we have started conversations with our consultants including MEP and structural and you
know definitely that that utilities corridor and rooms will will change to some degree. So that will be a moving target as we move forward but that will be for quite a while. Um
and then um this you know figuring out how this auditorium and this subsidiary spaces work will be again sort of being tweaked for a little bit but things are definitely settling down. Um I don't
know if Matt you have some input. I mean, one thing I would say is we've made some increases as as we talked about earlier. So, the building has grown again. We've added some rooms, you know, based on the the back and forth with staff. We've created some new
spaces. So, the building has gotten a little bit bigger and we should just make sure that everybody is comfortable with that and that, you know, we we want to make sure that whatever changes we're making are, you know, acceptable to everybody cuz because at a certain
point, we're going to we're going to say, "All right, this is it. We're setting the plan. This is the square footage." And I mean, we can tighten things up a little bit. we can probably get a little bit of of um efficiency by, you know, just kind of massaging things,
but um but it is a slightly bigger building as a result of those conversations. So, we want to make sure that that's that everybody understands that and that that's acceptable. Um I think the NBLC has no problem with the building getting bigger, but obviously as it gets bigger, it gets, you know,
more expensive. Um, so that that's a that's really a decision for the committee, I think, to to make in terms of whether or not they're comfortable with it. Um, in terms of next steps, the other thing I want to mention, we talked about this at the last meeting, um, is
getting in front of, uh, some of the local officials, and I know we've got the the meeting set up with the planning board. Susan, thank you for, uh, helping to organize that with Kathy. That's on December 3rd. Um and my understanding of
that is this is an informal presentation of the project to the planning board. I think it would also be helpful prior to that and the sooner the better ideally you know next week. Um it would be great
to have a a kind of working meeting with town staff. So, somebody from planning, somebody from zoning, the fire chief, the police chief, you know, somebody from I don't know if Concom is going to be sort of at play here or not, but
basically kind of get our our civil engineer, our landscape architect, us in a room with the people that ultimately have opinions about how this project needs to move forward, what what requirements are there going to be for
certain things. Parking is is a big one. We want to make sure that we understand what the town expectation is for parking. There's some there's still, I think, some uh confusion or or or lack of clarity, I
guess, about what the right um number of parking spaces is. We have a a kind of proposed way of approaching the parking counts which is a little bit different from what zoning calls for. But zoning also doesn't specifically address
libraries that you know this is lumped in with assembly occupancy spaces like theaters and churches which are kind of different uh frankly. So I I think though the sooner we have those conversations the better. And I'm not sure the best way to to do that. Should
that be coordinated through through Kathy? >> Yeah. Well, well, I thought >> Bob Yeah, I thought uh Jay was working on this. >> Um Yeah, sure. No, Jay's working on it, but let let me u address Matt's question
specifically. Um, I I just want everyone to know that, you know, we have a um very well-developed site plan review process that involves all of our um town officials in a a comprehensive framework. And um the gatekeeper for
that is Mark Grills, the building commissioner. He he chairs that up and and Kathy will be in attendance, but um Mark Grills um will set that up. So, you just need to contact his office. You can even email him at mg gy
llsy.mma. us and he'll he'll set up the whole process with all of the invitations and it'll be a a perfect opportunity to do exactly what you're suggesting. >> Okay, great. We'll do that. >> You're you're Bob, you're directing your
comments to Matt. >> Um yeah, well to to Matt. Sure. >> Okay. because I thought at one point there was an exchange of emails and Jay was going to take I just don't want to get a lot of wires crossed. So,
>> all right, let me can I address that just briefly? I I think that, you know, when when you have a a highly developed system in place, you know, um it I I think it's it's best if if we have a site plan review, the project needs site
plan review. We have a quarterback on site plan review for all of our projects. Let's go directly to site plan review. And um and that, you know, we can keep Jay in the loop. I'll be in the loop. We're all in the loop. This is, you know, all hands on deck over here,
but as far as achieving the site plan review, let's go right in there and do it just like normal. >> Okay. So, Bob, you expect this to be the official site plan review meeting? >> It will be a and official. It might not be our final one, but this is a town project.
>> As long as as long as it's not final. >> No, no feedback. We're not at that point. Listen, this this is a town project. So, we've got our team is at the disposal to um you know, we'll conduct meetings along the way. We'll
give feedback, answer questions, and learn more about it. And I think that way when we get to the point where it's a final site plan review, you know, things will be all very welldeveloped and and people will be familiar with the project at that point.
>> Okay. So, so the directive is to Matt to contact Mark Grills at town hall and uh whoever's involved in the regular site plan review process. Matt, you may want to request additional participants. I'm
I'm hearing uh so just make sure all the players are available who you need to speak with. Okay, that's >> we'll have the whole team. We'll have the whole team and I'll talk to Mark about this tomorrow to grease the skids. You all know in advance. Um we we have everybody. It's a comprehensive process
and I I think you'll enjoy it very much. >> Yeah. When you say site plan review, the the participants are fixed. It's as as Bob said, it's the it's zoning, it's planning, it's everyone that's going to ultimately have a say in the they're all on that site site plan review committee.
fire planning, building. Okay, I'm gonna grab this meeting back and recognize David. >> Just something quick, just so you know, Matt, um I actually had a meeting set up with um Mark. I think he's going on
vacation next week, so it may be following week. just just for your own timing information. I'm sure that they'll, you know, get you in as quickly as possible, but I believe he's on vacation next week, just so you know. >> Don't they have a fixed meeting? Don't
they have a fixed agenda site plan review? >> I don't know about that. >> I think they do, don't they, Bob? Don't they have a fixed meeting every month, a date, or do they meet just when there's a project? >> They they they set up meetings. right
now, you know, it's been real busy. We have there's a lot of, >> interestingly enough, there's a lot of big projects going on. Um, but this one's our most important one. This is a town building. So, um I'm sure that they'll be um flexible and professional
and and we can count on them. So, it's we've got a team in place for this. So, we'll take care of it. We'll um walk Matt, you know, right through it, make sure he knows everyone that's going to be there, and we'll start the process. Now, I'm I'm not certain about exactly
how their scheduling works, but I I can check on that in the morning. >> Great. Thank you. And Tom, >> Matt Marie, I have a clarifying question, so help me out a little bit here. So, originally the thought process is we were going to build a building that was 25,000 ft. We're now up 262,
which is an increase of almost 5% at 4.8, which in my calculations runs budget up another $1.2 million. I'm just a little bit concerned about pushing the budget out. I mean, is there any flexibility to um to squeeze a little
bit more efficiency out and push that cost back down just a little bit? I mean, I think >> or my calculations are wrong, then you can tell me that. That's fine. I'm I'm a big boy. >> I I don't know about the calculations, but I I mean, the reality is that we
have added net square footage, which increases the overall gross square footage. And so, >> okay, >> the way the way to trim it back down is to cut back on some of the things that we've added or or keep the things we've added, but cut but scale back on some of
the other things. So it's a it's a balancing act. You know if if we build more it's going to cost more but but more was requested and so that's what's been provided. So so that's >> that that's where I was saying I think
this is a question for you as a group to decide >> okay >> you know what is your comfort level with how much the the building expands or not. Um that that's really your call, but but you're right. I mean, if it if it's growing by some percentage, we're
we're paying for every additional square foot that we're adding to to the project. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I think we really need to be sensitive to that in the town just with everything that's going on, >> right? >> So, wherever we can uh kind of inhale a
little, exhale, whatever. I I looking at this and I I I feel I want to give David and his staff everything that they possibly want, but by the same token, I also want to be responsible to what the town's going to have to forecast out.
>> Okay. Um let's hear from John here. >> Matt, can you just go back over timing? So last time, I think you said when's the estimate get done? So after you submit in December, yeah, they review >> they review it uh you know over the
course of January. I don't know exactly how long the review will take but we submit on the 31st. uh they they do their review and issue comments and depending on those comments, the the reason that they've asked that the cost estimate be done
after the review period is in the event that comments obligate you to go back and make some changes to the to the building. They don't want that to h they don't want that to be something that would ultimately impact cost and then have to do another estimate. So they're what they're saying is wait on the
estimate until they've reviewed it, you've made any changes to the to the project that you need to based on that review and then you estimate it at that point. Um >> so can you just give month time frame to for that? >> So I would I would guess Yeah, I would
guess that we're doing the estimate in February >> and then late late January. It usually takes about 3 weeks for them to do the estimate and then you know a week to kind of digest it, get the consulting
team to review it. There's usually you know one or two rounds of revision to the estimate um just to make sure that you know everybody agrees that these are the right numbers and the assumptions that were made are correct. Um so there's a little bit of vetting there.
So, it's, you know, it's about a month all told to get the estimate, review it, and finalize it. Um, but that could happen by certainly by the end of February, I would say, we would have an estimate that's been reviewed and
vetted. Um, town meeting is in April, is that right? >> May change. >> Yeah. So, so it gives you two months after the completion of that estimate to
town meeting um you know to well I don't know to get to do outreach to kind of get the word out if if you want people to understand the costs before town meeting. Um but that's that's the anticipated
timing. >> All right. Thanks. >> Okay. Thank you Susan. >> Just one clarification Matt. Is it your expectation now that based on these things that you want this group here to uh go over this the square footage and decide whether we can live with 26,000
or come up with some suggestions of skinning it down and then come back to you with our ideas. Is that you're not going to come up with the ideas on how to reduce the space, are you? You expect us to sort of ratify the 26,000 or come up with an alternative figure?
Yeah. I mean I or or I I guess what I'm saying is that the committee needs to needs to increases or you're not >> um Okay. But but but I'm not expecting that the committee
necessarily is propose the changes like if if you came back and you said look we don't want this to be one square foot over 25,000 square feet. So we've got to cut out 1,000 square feet. Um we're not expecting you necessarily to tell us where to do that.
I think at that point we would probably go back to David and his team and say, "Okay, where can we where can we make some some changes here to to pull things back or or we, you know, you guys decide that that the number as it is, you're
comfortable with that because it gives David and his his team everything that that they need. Um, but once we once we submit it, that's it. you know, I don't think that the MBLC is going to want us to reduce it after the fact. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> I have I have one little question on the assembly room, the auditorium, because I don't see an exit door. I see one. >> We would have a second door. >> Where would it need it will need a
secondary egress, which it's not showing up in the current plan, but there would be a way a second way out of that room. I was getting nervous. >> I think that's the last step. Yeah. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Um, so before we
leave this, folks, do you at this point uh want to consider a motion to reduce the square footage by a th00and square feet? I mean, I I I don't see any reason to sit on this and come back in two
weeks and then say, "Oh, by the way, OE, can you do that?" Um, Mindy, can we give before you make the motion, can we give library staff a chance to speak to you of why these this growth was important? I know you services took up some of it
to get what we need there and the space there um was part of the growth. So, and we have reasons behind it. >> Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. >> Um, so when you're saying library staff to respond, you mean tonight?
>> Well, no. Um, like have a time where Phoebe could join us and library and staff could advocate for why we need that extra thousand square feet. >> Although we can have a motion and not vote on it and still have discussion on the motion. Um, and then we can table
the motion. Uh I'm I'm just what I'm saying is do you want to have that conversation right now folks? >> I think we should have a preliminary conversation now and then let the library staff kind of you know get together and >> and and
figure out which way they want to go. >> Okay. So what's your thought on this Tom? What's my thought in terms of reduction or >> Yeah. >> Well, so I hadn't I I was just doing the calculations just to kind of figure out what it might be. And I like I told Matt
and Ma, I'm not sure that my calculations are totally correct, but my understanding is we were originally at 25. Now we're at 262, which is a 5% increase. And if you look at it, 1,200 square feet by $1,000 a
square foot is $1.2 million. I mean, it's pretty Unless I'm way off. I just don't understand. I I don't think as hard as it is right now push this project forward, if we keep adding money
to the project, it's going to get extremely hard. And looking at it right now, 1.2 might not seem like a lot. Unless Matt and his team would like to donate, you know, they give us the extra one the extra
square footage. >> They can have a bake sale. >> You can have a bake sale, Matt. Right. >> But anyway, I I think >> I'm a terrible baker. >> I could sell Girl Scout cookies. >> Okay. I think we should give the staff an
opportunity to make their case and maybe they when they sit down and look at it, they'll look and say, "Oh, maybe we could give back this." >> I think it's only fair. >> I want the inside space. You can get rid of the porch. >> No. >> Well, that's a good question, Matt. I
meant to ask that. That that square footage is just the footprint. Does not include the porches or the >> It's It's enclosed space. It's enclosed. >> It's enclosed space. Okay. Okay. >> And at one point I thought the number was 24,000. >> I did too.
>> It was like 246. >> You were very proud of promoting that. >> It's 246, but then it went down. >> And and now it's went to 246, then you're adding 1 point you're adding um
1,600 square ft. Yeah. Something like that. So 1.6 million. what what might be helpful to you guys as you have these conversations um is for us and I'm speaking for MA here now.
Mara, correct me if I'm saying anything out of out of school here, but um it it might be useful exercise for us to do a a program tally that lists all of the program spaces and the net assignable
square foot for each based on uh I I guess really the last plan that we had prior to these changes, the one that was, you know, the kind of tightened up most efficient plan that we had done that accomod ated the program, compare that to a list of all the net spaces in
this current plan. So we can see what spaces were added and what the comparative square footage is. You know, if a space if the same spaces in both plans, did it get did the size stay the same? Did it shrink? Did it grow? And we can kind of see what the net differences
are between the previous plan and this plan. And that might be a useful tool to to kind of make some decisions about where we might find some efficiencies or where we need to scale back um if that's what we're going to try to do. So >> does that seem reasonable to you?
>> Great. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, I I can do that. And also I think you know because things were moving around since all of our program discussions I think we need to do another round of of tightening things up and right sizing and that number may
reduce. >> And then I also think what might be helpful is >> if you know that budget creep is a problem which obviously it is um you know getting more precise about exactly what you need. So we would never like
for instance I got the feeling that the children's ya staff work room might be slightly oversized um just based on what's going to get done there. So if you know there can be some precision about oh we need you know two sixoot tables and then room to do this specific
thing or um the multi-purpose rooms I know there was some back and forth about exactly how many people needed to fit in those spaces. So if if um the staff or or the LBC in general can consider exactly how many people those rooms need to accommodate, that might help us also
to properly rightsize those rooms because they've been a little bit in flux. Um same thing for uh I'm sorry I'm losing my train of thought, but if we're really precise about like the meeting room, like exactly how many people need to fit in
that, things like that. So, um if if you uh have a chance to review the plans and you think, "Okay, well, this seems bigger than we need, um we can start refining it." >> The area that I went to right away are the study rooms and you've got um you
know, you've got a lot of study and I I think study rooms are great. Absolutely have to have them. But do we need that many or we could we configure them a little bit differently and have you know fourperson study rooms that could be used for a single person
study room something along that line and and just throwing an idea out and shrinking them down a little bit. >> Okay. So then that would go back to the whole program study that was done before
and then what accommodations were made to that. That's what we're talking about, right folks? And you're going to give us >> a comparison between what was recommended at one point, what was adjusted and that we can kind of see is that am I
understanding this correctly? >> Right. Excuse me for interrupting, but >> sure. Aren't we scheduled to have a meeting next week? >> We are on the 20th. >> 20th. Yeah. >> So, we're talking like one week out. That would give them enough time, you know, instead of doing a decision
tonight. >> No, no. I just do their homework. >> Yeah. Do the homework. >> Yep. >> And then come back to us and we can make a more informed decision. But I will tell you that the minute I heard 26, the warning bells started going off for me.
>> Did. >> Yeah. >> And because there is reluctance in the community and on the board >> and the number like 24 is out there. >> Yeah. >> That's it's already been out there is 24's out there.
>> I think in one of the meetings Matt had made the adjustment and said, "Oh, we were all very happy shrunk the >> shrunk the footprint." I think we're down to 246 or something like that. Yeah. So, >> we roll. >> Yes.
>> Okay. All right. So, um then what will the process be for the staff to give us feedback for next week's meeting? What will how would that work? David, you want to mle that over openly?
I'm sure we can set up the point. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, you'll take care of that and then you three will bring the results of those conversations back to this group next week. >> Okay. Wonderful.
>> distributed to the rest of the >> Yeah, this one David sent it. >> No, I didn't get it. Send it to >> send it to my
>> Yeah. >> All right. Well, we will follow up on that. >> My email address again because I didn't get an email. >> We follow up on that. >> All right. Uh Matt, were you trying to chime in here? >> Yeah, I I actually
have >> You are breaking up. frozen. >> You're frozen is not very good. >> Can you hear me now? >> Yes, >> you can hear me. All right. My my
>> connection is unstable. We lost internet here, so I'm working off my phone. Um >> the other thing that I wanted to bring up if we're ready to move on to another topic is, and Bob, maybe this is a question for you. We're trying to coordinate our geotech um we we have an
obligation from the NBLC to provide a geotech report as part of our submission. We have a geotech engineer on our team uh McFale Associates. Originally we had thought that the building was going to be over in the open space as everyone knows that's a
pretty pretty easy lift for a a drill rig to get in there and do borings. We are now on, you know, a densely wooded corner of the site. Much more difficult for a drill rig to get in there. So, I've been having conversations with McFale about how to do this. Um, and
some back and forth with the MBLC about how far we have to take the geotech investigation. At this point, it sounds like we can do a kind of preliminary geotech report. So, we don't we we don't want to go in there and start clearing
trees in order to get a drill rig, you know, all the way back into the sort of middle of the adult wing uh to do a boring when we don't know yet that we're going to have a successful town meeting, right? We don't want to go through that exercise and expense. Um, and so we're
trying to figure out a limited way of getting geotech information that would provide us with a preliminary report. I'm trying to get confirmation from the NBLC that that's acceptable, but it sounds like it would be, with the understanding that if this project moves forward, which we all hope it will
obviously in the schematic design phase, we would then do a full-blown geotech investigation, which would require some clearing in that area. But at that point, we'd have the confidence that the project's moving forward. So all of this is a kind of roundabout way of asking
you, Bob, what's the best way to coordinate that work? It might require some coordination with DPW. There's I know there's a chain link fence around uh the wooded area. It may be that a section of that chain link fence needs to be removed in order to get the drill
rig kind of as as tightly in as as possible. Um it I think it's going to require a little bit of on the ground coordination. So what's the best way to manage that? Uh on the town side, >> I think the best way to manage that is
to um have a discussion with Jeff Colby, our DPW director. We'll be able to support and um you know, I I can bring the topic up with him. Um, but it'll probably be best to um, you know, have someone follow up with him with as much
of the specific information as possible. And our DPW is great. We'll be able to support. I'm sure it's not going to be a problem. >> Okay. I I have a call scheduled tomorrow with McFale, so maybe what I'll do is I'll reach out to him and suggest that we do a quick conference call to talk
talk about it with our geotech engineer. Um, so I can reach out to him tomorrow. >> All right. That that'll be great. And and again, um our DPW director, Jeff Colby, we'll include him in in the loop and um work it out together.
>> Great. Thanks. >> Okay. All right. So, our next Can we leave program? Are we good on program, folks? Okay. So, our next item was site updates. And I think you just kind of slid into that, Matt, with talking about
um needing the geotech assessment. Is there anything else on the site? >> Um we are continuing to have coordination meetings with our uh landscape architect about parking layouts. We are going to present some
parking revisions that that try to incorporate some of the comments that we've heard. So I think by next Thursday we'll be able to share those with you. Okay, great. >> Um, yeah. So, >> good. All right. So, then moving to
special town meeting which is Monday, not Tuesday, Monday, November 17th. And we have approval from the town moderator Ken Moody to distribute our trifolds.
So, that's kind of cool. So, we can meet people. He recommended that we actually be inside the building, that people felt uh that the activity was more obtrusive if we were out on the sidewalk, which I did go back and forth with him on email
to make sure I understood that he wanted us indoors. So that's not the lobby. >> In the lobby. Yes. So I would like to get a commitment. Well, let's first talk about time. Tom meeting starts at 6. So,
I think we would need to be there like at five to just get oriented and >> I'll be there. >> Okay. Thanks, Tom. >> Okay. And I can be there. >> I have to be there for planning.
>> You have to be there anyway. Okay. >> I'm in a select board meeting. >> Yeah, you're Yes. Right. You're posted already. Okay. >> Okay. And I do have a request into Mary Alice for some copies. So, um, I'll pick those up. >> Any suggestions? >> Yes.
>> Um, because it's involving I mean small I believe this meeting there's going to be a lot of parents there. This would be a good time to get out a volunteer and sign up list to get >> some involvement from the parents. >> I don't know if you can do that, but we
can't do that. No, we can't recruit. We can provide information. >> Yep. Um, and John's going to be uh h has a way to set these up at the St. Pas this Saturday. I'm guessing they have good
baked goods, too. So, uh, that'll be happening. Uh, >> we're not presenting anything at special town meeting. >> No, the special town meeting, the item on the warrant article is a select
board. Yeah. And it's the request for the funding to assess. >> So we don't have a >> who's beencome on that right now. >> Spincom on their >> I don't I haven't heard back I haven't heard back on your recommendations.
>> Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm getting mixed feelings that they they may not go along with it. >> Well along with what >> the the recommendation. You know how when you you have a Warren article and they say it's like Oh, you mean my school that large together?
>> I don't know. And I'm not going to speak Richard. >> Okay. >> Well, we'll find out. >> And the meeting is at the new school, isn't it? >> On station. >> On station. >> Okay. And >> horrible.
>> Yeah. >> So, let's let's slide into outreach. Oh, and Matt, I did have one other comment. I don't think there's uh ever anything that's informal with our planning board because our our chair of the planning
board is is uh she runs a tight ship. >> We're not informal. >> Yeah. I only I only meant informal in that we're not expecting them to render any kind of decisions. >> No. >> Right. We're not we're not asking for relief. We're not asking for permission.
It'sformational only. >> Informational. >> They will comment though on that. >> Yeah, they will. >> I'm sure they will. Hey, I was on the planning board in my town for six years. What? You know, you have to comment or you know, you don't look good.
>> Okay, so moving into outreach. And I have Jen down here because Jen had uh sent a a clip, a link to a video that they had done with the Amherst public schools
for a new school building, which was kind of an interesting project. That must have been a fun project because they were building a new school on the same site with the old school so the nobody was disrupted. Uh,
and I also rewatched the Orleans one uh that they had done. And I know John had really liked that Orleans one. And I want to just throw that out for
folks. What going forward, where do we need to put our energies and uh what do we want to accomplish? There have been some conversations about doing short clips like the Sonics they
used to do on WCAI and so it would be this is my favorite part of the library. I love to come to the library because I get new cookbooks every time and then somebody else and they're saying you know the staff is always wonderful and
they serve us and I don't have a printer at home so I come here and they're very helpful. Uh the one in Orleans was more of a story and it was short clips of
people but they were in the library. There were people from cross-sections of the community. So it was library board members, trustee, whatever their um nomenclature is over there.
multiple library users, people who had been on uh past committees, present committees, select board. I think there was a planning board person, but they were all in like in a chair in the library or
sitting in a an area of the library or talking about a need for the library. the library director is in it but they tell the story of why there is a need for the library interwoven with what they love about the
library. So those are two very different conceptual approaches and then the one from Amhurst was uh it included a lot of technical information. It told the story and there were fewer speakers. I think
there were three total. Is that right, Jen? The there was >> I don't recall off top of my head. Um >> it was like the or the committee chairperson, the architect, and one other person I think who told
the story. Um >> Yeah. And and that one's more of that one is like a website like you know any like if you went to the town website and you clicked here and you clicked here and you clicked here to see the different the different pages of what
you're looking for. Um that it it's like a whole project website. It's got the page about the story. It's got the page that answers questions. Um I had Tim pull it up because I'm it's not I'm having trouble with my computer tonight
and opening it. But um yeah, it's got the the homepage about the project, information about meetings, and it just it talks about it it explains to everyone what is going on with the project, the entire project. Like it's
not just one document that has some some clips like you were mentioning in I think you said Orleans. Um this has this has frequently asked questions. It's it's possibly a little bit more interactive. Um it talks about the
project team. It you know there's different facets of this. It it would be updated semi-regularly. You know if people had new questions or after a meeting we might post the I mean I know they'll be on your town website
but maybe meeting minutes would be posted. I I mean I don't I don't know how you feel about that, but this this is kind of more inclusive of of everything. Um rather than kind of the sales pitch I I don't for
lack of a better term. >> No, no, that's exactly No, that is a good term. That's what it was. >> Yeah. So, this is what there's like eight different eight different quote unquote pages on here that explain everything about this project and you know, how are we addressing sustainability? How can you get involved
in this? Um, it would it would have meetings, it would have information. Um, and and and what I what I got from what Tim and I got from our marketing person is basically the the different phases of
this to to get it up and going. You know, there would be the um kind of a kickoff meeting, see what you want in there, what kind of branding you want, do you have any special logos, that type of thing, what documents, what message are you trying to get across? Uh then
there would be the actual design of it, build out the kind of homepage thing. And from what I understand, it's not super cumbersome for for our our team to do this if if you want to do that. Um you know, develop develop the website, any custom forms, any links for anything
that you might want. Um and then and then we could do project updates. you could have, you know, stakeholder information, timelines, maps, any visuals, type of things like that. Um, and then and then it would just be
adjust it would be updated whatever regular period of time we want to update it. Um, and then there's just uh so there's there's the there would be there would be a cost to get it up to,
you know, up and going and then there would be a a monthly or an annual monthly or annual uh like domain registration for the site for the town to have it up and going. this is and and
information I've gotten is relatively rough, but I didn't um I didn't make anything super formal yet until I knew if this is a direction that you wanted to go. But >> okay, now I want to loop in Bob here because this was something that Bill was
promoting before he left and he had shown us. >> Can I chime in before you go to Bob? >> Sure thing. Okay, I'm >> pulling my selectman's hat. Uh Bob, >> I think that the more the more um we have a trust issue in town. We have a truth issue in town. And I think the
more is better than less. >> Absolutely. >> I think put it all out there. >> The more the marrier. >> Yeah. An educated citizen is your best is your absolutely all >> the most protection for democracy. What do >> you think, Bob?
>> No, I think it's a I think it's a great idea idea. We need to do this. We we um it's very similar. You could take a look at the website we established for the wastewater project and um I'd like to hook you up, Jen, with our communications team, Lori Sullivan. They
can be great help and together um let's try to get this up as soon as we can. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Get with what's her name? Lori what? >> It's Lori Sullivan. >> Sullivan. Okay.
>> And she's a L. Sullivan at yarmath.mma us. >> Okay. >> All right. So that's the go-ahad, right, Bob? >> Absolutely 100%. Go ahead. >> There's the Okay. So glad to have you
here by Yes. Go. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Uh and let's see. Oh, and then the other the other event, and that's not for a couple of weeks, is
the cookie stroll that we'll need flyers for and maybe someone who might want to >> hang out here >> and talk to cookie strollers. >> They come here to get their chicken open the back.
>> Awesome. Very important. And and bring money to buy cranberry bread. So >> we can set up an area >> just for that >> during the cookie. Oh wow. >> I can help out that day because no
children come in on a cookie stroll day. They're all walking and getting cookies. Very slow day down in the children's room. >> So I can rotate. >> There's also a lot of cultural center because there's Christmas going on. Right. >> Right. I don't think we can horn in on
their face though. Right. Maybe they would let put the pamphlets out. They have a foyer. So maybe >> you have to ask, but we could >> December 13th. >> I can ask. I'll try. >> December 13th. >> You're going to Excuse me. The cultural
center. >> I can. >> Okay. All righty. Um Okay. Let's review upcoming meetings. So we have next week. J before you go, there's one thing and I didn't bring the paperwork and I'm sorry and I and I'll send it out to you and I
got this from Richard Simon and it's a study >> that and it deals with construction on the two school M what it would take moneywise from square one either destruction and
rebuild of MacArthur Emmy small the whole dollar breakdown >> and I'd like to send that out to people so people can review it. This is some research that he did, right? Correct. He's the master of research. Richie Simon is um the chair of the incom
>> and he does deep dives into things. >> But I'll send it out to you and you can forward it on to everybody else and give you an idea of what the dollar breakdown would be in terms of whether you did, you know, from from scratch or >> um a total redo of the building.
>> Okay. Great. Thank you. >> Essentially, >> thank you. Righty. Um, okay. >> Tom, sorry that Sorry, one question, Tom. That's that's um assuming school use, correct?
>> That's That's daddy. >> It's both according to what Richard says. I You know what, Matt? If you'd like, I can send you a copy as well. >> Yeah, I'd be I'd be interested to see it. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, um,
next week's meeting is scheduled here. However, that's the same night that the library board is meeting here. And so we have that same choice that we had before of moving our meeting to 6:30
or maybe starting to or having our meeting downstairs and starting it at 6 while the library board finished their meeting here. Up here the problem would be is there have to be a staff member up here because they're both open meetings. If we're down the basement, we have to
make sure somebody is up here making sure nobody's entering. Oh, but the board ends at 6. When they end pretty tight >> and you come downstairs at 6, there'd be nobody up here watching the door. >> No, he would stay to the end of that
meeting and come to our meeting late. >> But when he comes downstairs, there's nobody upstairs to watch the door and secure the building. >> Oh, the door has to be Can it just be locked? >> We're an open meeting. >> We had the doorbell last time. I don't know if that worked.
>> Here's my question, David. Could the um meeting for the board be downstairs because then Joe and I will be up here setting up for this meeting. So, we will have the room to monitor the space up here quietly while they use the Leonard room. >> That seems like
>> I think that it would be an easier switch. Yeah. >> Okay. So then um my concern with you know not having David be at all these long meetings and also for everybody here to begin at six uh so we can begin at six. You folks will be with us to do
the >> yes here upstairs and then the library board um will be asked to meet in the Leonard room. >> Okay. And Okay. So that's the 20th. I will be
remote. So, I'd like to ask Tom to chair that meeting. Um, and then the third is with the planning board and that is at 5:30. >> And I would like to for you to keep on
your calendars December 4 also just because I'm feeling like we're coming up to the end. And it would be better to have meetings at the beginning of December than at deadline time. >> And the fourth would be here regular time here. >> Yeah. Same
>> same time, same station. And also then we skipped the 11th and then put in for the 18th. Now with that kind of a schedule, I'm going to ask you Matt meeting the 20th.
You will be meeting with uh the site folks and then with planning board on the 3, potentially with us again on the 4th and with us again on the 18th. Does that give your team enough wrap up
time to wrap up this question of shrinking or whatever we're going to call that? Uh, and then getting the parking issues and tying everything up in a bow to submit.
>> Yeah. So, in terms of the square footage question, I think that needs to be resolved by the next meeting on the 20th. Yes. >> Um and and once we have a decision one way or the other, we can make those edits, finalize that that plan,
and you know, I we would I guess share that with you on the fourth. Um at which point we're in pretty good shape with the plan. At the same time, we're going to be continuing our ongoing conversations with um consultants which
will have some minor impact on planning. You know, we fine-tuning the sizes of the utility spaces and things like that. Um but we can be doing that sort of in the meantime. Um even even leading up until the
meeting next week. So, um, I feel like if we get a decision from you guys next week that sort of ratifies the program, we can finalize the plan. I think there's there's time there to get everything buttoned up. Um,
we, you know, there's still a question about the timing of this meeting with, um, site plan review folks. Uh, so I'll I'll reach out tomorrow and try to see if we can schedule that. One
question about the planning board meeting. Is that uh do they do their meetings in person? Do they do them remotely? Should we plan to be there in person for that meeting? >> E either or they do both. They do hybrid. I that's always great to see a body in the room.
>> Yeah, I mean I can I can certainly plan to be there. >> Yeah. Although I have to tell you, if you can get site plan set up, it's more important that you all go to site plan. >> Yep. >> That's a that's a very important that as Bob said, it's a very important meeting and you'll have all the key players there. Um it's always great if planning
has we do both. Um but it's always and we'd love to have you there, but if you have to make a choice because they'll be very close together, >> I would suggest you go to site plan. I think that's more important for you. Okay. Agree. >> All right. All right. I'm saying that
>> I I mean, ideally, we can we can manage to be there in person for both, but I just didn't want to plan on coming down in person for the planning board if everybody is remote. Um so, um >> No, we're all there in person. >> Okay. You are. Okay. All right. Great.
>> Do we want to uh pencil in a December 11 meeting? again thinking to have things in the earlier part of the month. This is just if we need to. >> Yeah, I think it wouldn't hurt to have that.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah, I think that would be fine. >> Keep them both, but let's let's uh see. In other words, we we're not meeting to meet to meet. All right. So when we get to the end, when we get the project
done, then we're going to start meeting and take a deep breath and then reconvene in January with uh new activities. So, if if we're moving along, we've made the space decisions, we agreed on the um parking that that
question about those 18 spots to the west of the school are where do those belong? Who do they belong to? And we get all of those things cleared up, then we should be in good shape. And
then that's when we say we're done. this print submit and we we're not meeting again until we we have a new direction in January. Okay. Is that agreed? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. All righty. Um so Sandy will get
that in the minutes which she always does. Um and >> I have I have reached the end. Does anyone else have anything >> John? Oh, you're good. Sound good.
>> All right. All right. We have a motion to adjourn this meeting and and by Tom. >> And I'm just going to do a full vote. >> All in favor?
>> Opposed. >> David, >> my apologies. It came in today. The your email came in my email today. >> Motion carried. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you.
>> Email it to the right one. >> I didn't get it. When did he send them? >> I got >> I just got just check again right now and see if you got >> it. might have been gone into