##VIDEO ID:-3rRFyO3MJ0## reporting in progress we're ready uh good evening and uh welcome to the January 15 2025 Yarmouth planning board meeting I am Joanne Crowley the chair this is to formally advise that as required by CH Massachusetts chapter Massachusetts general laws chapter 38 paragraphs 18 to 25 and pursuant to the chapter 20 of the acts of 21 2021 an act relative to extending certain state of emergency accommodations signed into law on June 16th 2021 the armouth planning board will hold a public meeting on January 15 2025 at 5:30 p.m the public is welcome to attend in person this evening or via alternative Public Access provided on the notice of meeting available on the town of the Yarmouth website I will Begin by taking roll call Susan BR here will Rubenstein here Jim Sabin present Peter Slovak here Ken Smith here Joan Crowley present uh seeing that we have a quorum I'll Now call the meeting to order and I would ask that you join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic stands one nation God indivisible liy and justice for all thank you um I see we have is Linda still up there or is she Linda is up Linda's still there but she's she's an attendee okay uh I'd like to recognize that we do have a member of the public here Linda Callahan uh Linda please uh I guess she can raise her hand if she's got questions as we continue please feel free to raise your hand uh so let us continue with the agenda Kathy uh has sent us uh a revised uh table of contents um for the LCP and I would ask Kathy to run us through some of the changes that she's worked with the consultant on in terms of focusing on key issues um and uh action plan so did you want to talk about the meeting first or do you want to talk about the key issues first the 29th meeting yeah other than it I'm not sure what you I just Jeff Jeff and I and Heather met the uh the earlier today to kind of talk about a little bit more information with regard to the format the topics and looking for some input from uh the planning board on how that meeting will be run as well as additional inform I'm sorry sure if you'd like to go over the logistics of the 29th meeting that's fine and we're looking for your input on some things so okay hi everybody can you hear me okay yep yes great uh I'm here with Adam too uh from BC group so we're here to just have a conversation with you about the 29th and then we can cover you know any other topics as well so the the key issues really appreciated the information that each of you provided we got the the notes um that everyone provided from the initial draft and then we got some input from Kathy um which was great and thorough and in terms of the 29th what we are looking you know at is for some feedback from you all um the approach generally is that we're going to go full full steam ahead with the hybrid uh mode of meeting so um as Kathy mentioned we we talked today um this morning and then we actually had a test run that we just did with some some Yarmouth it folks and um and um good crew and so we are going to be be bringing people into that hearing room that in now and start off with a plan for having three um three larger tables in that room uh obviously surrounded by chairs and so that would be the arrangement where people coming to the meeting would arrive and and be and seat and seat themselves at these tables and then with Kathy's help the the side room uh conference room B that's adjacent will be also available um in case we are getting like a larger turnout um I think Kathy mentioned we could we could put a table in the hallway and have people signing in or getting name tags and that sort of thing in the hallway and then um you know our approach will be a presentation that will cover you know as much as possible um while keeping it kind of high level and summary in nature for people to to get an introduction to the LCP in general um based on some of the comments from last time you know we'll touch on why why why is the town doing the LCP um we'll talk a little bit about where we've been so far so we'll do a summary of the community event in September um we'll touch on the crowdsource map and some of the findings from there and then I think what we're looking to do is review some of the the key issues that have been identified and um with your help and with Kathy's help I think we have kind of a concise list of those things and I think the first you know the first question or thing to acknowledge with the plan board is that there's obviously a tremendous amount of um activities issues and plans so we'll have to keep it high level in nature and keep the the discussion of key issues kind of summary so that we can cover as many as possible um and then we'll talk about um the growth policy so we'll touch on the growth policy that's required as part of the LCP just to give sort of a you know participants and a sense of what that is and then from there um we would like to try um a an interactive Poll for people who are both online and in the room at the same time we have a we have a program called menty which um we tested out a little bit earlier and we think it's um a good tool because we can with one with one survey question we can get respon responses from people online and people in the room and then project those in real time and so we'll use it as kind of an icebreaker and then to get people sort of thinking a little bit about some of these topics um you know in terms of you know certain of the the Community Systems the built systems the natural systems and so we can have a different you know some introductory type questions on that and then what we'll do is we'll proceed to S sort of break out um both in person and virtually and so we have um Adam and oxa from BC group will be poison ready to be online and you know using Zoom features um any of those participants can then be separated into breakout rooms that would convene online and then the three tables that we have in the room would all go through this exercise to have some facilitated discussion and questions um so we can talk about that in more detail and then after a period of time you know we will reconvene um everyone will reconvene sort of in the same room so the people in the room obviously will not really have moved but the people online will will kind of rejoin and then we anticipate kind of going through a reporting out session where people in the room you know one one spokesperson from the table could kind of summarize some of the key discussions and then online as well so whether it's Adam and AA and AXA or someone from their group could could kind of briefly report out on the discussions that happened online and then probably just some closing remarks so kind of soup the nuts we're we're probably looking at you know realistically like a two-hour time frame for people to be um part of the meeting and engaging so I think with that I'll stop because I think I covered a lot just in terms of some of the basic Logistics Kathy are you expecting people to register prior to the meeting just a sense of how many people are coming or yeah well we talked about that with regard to um at least the online aspect of it and to get people to register um then they would get this separate email and it would be an email that comes from someone's email from BC group so people probably would be confused by that and then the only way you can get into the meeting is through the link within that email and we thought that more people would get confused by that than would be uh helped to know the number so what I'm going to do when I'm publicizing it I'm going to request that people RSVP to the LCP yarmi ma. us just to help give us a headcount of the people that might be in person and then might be um remote to kind of figure that all out just to give a reference from the open house we had about 40 people signed in um to the open open house so I would like to think we would get you know maybe 40 people here uh and setting up like like um Jeff was saying we'd have like two tables here with chairs around it two tables lined up you know this way over there and then you know two tables lined up here maybe even an L here to have a little bit more people here and then um have the have the room B is also available when people are having the presentation probably people might not want to sit here but then we'll have chairs around the perimeter and then when they're we do the breakout rooms and or the breakout sessions then they can come up here and S and sit down in front because we're going to have a screen up there and that's where it's going to be projected for the whole group to see so it's going to be here Kathy not over there correct um what else do we have say um I think the talking about you know the different Staffing I think BC group's going to have people uh at least three people here to staff the meetings obviously I'm going to be here so if we have another breakout room I can help facilitate that it would be nice to Pepper the planning board members around to the different groups we might want to talk about whether some planning board members want to do the zoom have a couple members going in the zoom and being put into different breakout rooms so that you can see firsthand it' be nice to have a firsthand I mean obviously we have people from BC group but um you have someone in in the different breakout rooms online as well as having some people here uh in person um to do that I think what might be helpful Kathy is if we could understand better uh uh if we could have not that it necessarily has to be in in in a a document of some sort but kind of the logistics of how this is going to work and where and how uh you uh Jeff and Adam want us to be you know where where should we be what should we be doing uh we really are relying on you to um help us with this I mean I have a just a basic question on who's going to be the primary facilitator on this and I would like to suggest it not be me I don't think it will be you like the MC of the meeting I would like it so I'm hoping one of either you or Adam might um or Kathy I'm not trying to push it towards you but but the the logistics of this and how this is going to work um given it's a hybrid meeting and these breakout rooms and zoom and this I I think that it would be helpful if we if we had a a concrete plan in writing as to what you're going to do what you need us to do and where you want us to be yeah I I appreciate that and I think what we have as the outline right now and I'm I have a a document that I'm working on currently which you know my I would have loved to provide it to you right now so we could all chew on it but I think we want to have the discussion and then I will refine the document and provide it um I think I talked to Kathy Maybe by Friday or Monday um get it get it back out to you all to to take a look but I think in terms of General General Logistics you know I think BSC will have three people in person with um the discussion was with Kathy and Karen if she's available and then you know I think an ideal situation would be having at least three planning board members in person and you know BSC will convene the breakout tables and it'll be cordial because everyone will be walking around the room and greeting each other and we'll we we'll get people seated into the tables and we'll have a worksheet which will be sort of the facilitator's guide and so if if a BSC staff person is taking the the lead on the facilitating the table I think having a planning board member at each table is going to be really helpful because you're the local connection to people and then ideally online would be um Adam and oxa if we we're envisioning two breakout rooms online it's it's really difficult to to estimate how many people um are going to attend either in person or online we do have a sort of a backup plan where if there's not that many people in person and there's a larger group online one of us will will jump online and so there'll be three BST staff for people if if we could get two planning board members who would be willing to be part of the zoom breakout rooms that would kind of make it consistent in terms of kind of the representation in terms of those breakout rooms and the breakout groups uh Susan Miss Vera the worksheets will they be will they um will the worksheets be a summary of what is set at each table and is that going to be used to sort of compile uh a document that reflects what went on that night is that the intent of the worksheets yeah that's the intent and so you one thing that we heard last time one of the last times we talked was that there's just an immense amount of information and so we don't think that we can cover every topic in this in this meeting and so we had I think we had a conversation where there are some very kind of well understood um projects or initiatives and goals that we think are clear so you know and I think the example that I'll use for right now is um drinking water protection I think it it it goes along with maybe like Wetland protection those are well understood they're well documented especially with the O the open space plan right and I think what we wanted to talk with you about tonight was if we have some of those that are pretty well understood maybe we use the Breakout groups to focus on things that are that don't have a direct connection to an existing plan or where we there's a couple topics where we think we could get a little bit more information to help us um round out you know the existing conditions and kind of some actions and so Kathy and I had a discussion earlier and Kathy I don't know if you want to broach the idea of we had like I think we narrowed down to like maybe four subjects that could be good topics for us to have in terms of the Breakout yeah I think as Jeff mentioned I think we really have a very good understanding of our natural systems with all of the work that we've done we don't really need to re go over that particular ground I think maybe additional things we're looking for information on might be uh the economy might be housing and and when I say housing I know we just had a housing production plan but where around town and what types of housing are you interested in seeing to help facilitate community housing not just capital A affordable housing which we've kind of identified uh climate resiliency obviously the last LCP and even some of the the previous um studies really haven't concentrated as much on climate resiliency and I think it's some something that we might want to ask the community some additional information about um when Joanne and I were talking about maybe you know if we want another topic might be Community character and design to get some more information from people on that and then to tap into this um community meeting to find out a little bit more about mades mes um versus you know getting too much into public Public Safety you know education and learning libraries or senior um services at this particular time that was just the idea to concentrate on a few things instead of I I I I think that's a that's a really uh efficient approach uh Jeff and Kathy uh one where you know we know we have gaps in some areas and then we know we've we've got some pieces of this that are done essentially yeah um and so uh and we've reached out and all of those all of those products have involved a public Outreach uh significant public Outreach so I don't see a need to really re rehash any of those um so let's I think it's a good idea to focus on the places where we think we have some gaps Miss BR public Outreach what what Kathy what's been done to promote the the meeting um there was a lot of public Outreach that was done um probably about a month ago well not even a month ago maybe weeks ago to kind of say save the date now that we have the link we've tested it we feel comfortable um with that we can um get that on the town website and then we can start doing some additional publicity to get people to um to get online with that I do have a meeting with the new um community relations person at the schools on Friday um which is nice so hopefully we can get a clearer connection and clear understanding of what types of ways they can help us advertise these these types of things um we do have some of those radio spots that that were mentioned and then you know the traditional things that we typically do I'll send out the emails to you know uh committees and neighborhood associations and different organizations the chamber obviously and um see if we can get the word out that way as well as you know social media and that type of thing can we use the reader boards both at the chamber and at the high school I'm sorry what's that leader boards that one at the chamber one at the high school could we get on those yeah yeah good idea and I'll probably do the code red again that was extremely successful yeah that I think the co we heard that at the at the open house the code red was was something that a lot of people commented on if we can do that again that would be excellent um I was just going to add one thing so you know in terms of the the amount of information that we have as part of the project um part of what we can do is via the presentation is we can we can definitely touch on certain elements of especially the things that were're not going to drill down on we can mention so the the list that Kathy mentioned is natural systems um Town Services I think we can not gloss over them but we can kind of Breeze through them to to help people I know that those topics are part of the part of the process and then sort of the other half where we want to try to get a little bit more information is what we could cover in the breakout sessions and so we do want to make sure that we talk about everything but it's going to have to you know to to make this in a two-hour meeting we're going to have to at least give quick summary or let people know that these things are covered and then kind of drill down on on four or five more in-depth topics and so we think that's a pretty good strategy to to achieve one of the primary goals because I think Kathy keeps asking what do we what do we want to get out of this meeting and one is Perpetual through across every you know interaction is just letting people know that the LCP process is underway and that there's this plan being created and people may choose to engage in it and they may not but when it comes back time for this to appear at town meeting we want at least people to be like oh yes I remember hearing about that or I I have this glimpse of I I have a general understanding of what the LCP is so education across those boards is really important for us kind of you know to run through the rest of the the next like six months of the pro of the project and then what we talked about earlier was after this we we think that maybe we can do a survey a sort of not a simple survey but a a focused survey on actions and priorities and so that you know that will come a little bit later once everything's fleshed out but it'll give this last opportunity for the public to look at actual action items and implementation strategy and that that will help us round out that we had the open house we had sort of this middle engagement session and then we have this survey to to make sure that people see have a chance to see you know some of these action items and I know that Kathy was talking about making sure Town staff and other people have seen some of the action items before that survey goes out but that could be something that we could pursue in the spring or early summer as a lead up to kind of the to finalizing the product so so just kind of a preview to see how we kind of round out the public engagement you know it's not all f it doesn't all have to be focused on this this meeting right now okay that sounds good members of the board any questions that sounds like a great plan Madam chair are we only going to have one of these is there any expectation at the end of the at the end of the process is a there there's also I think a public participation meeting for the draft and then there's a formal public hearing there's and then before it goes to the board before it goes to the select yes and so you know I think if we're okay with the general topics we we will start to kind of provide you know the way that we see the breakout sessions going is there'll be a worksheet and ideally it can be one page sort of a facilitators guide it'll contain a brief introduction you know and that'll be something where if it's a plan board member or a BC will'll say okay so economy you know you know and we'll have a description of a real quick High Lev description of the economy and then we will have on the sheet of paper a couple of the key issues that have been identified um you know just one for example is you know trying to support businesses in the shoulder season and then you know we want to try to prompt some kind of you know question for people you know what what are good what are some things that could be done to help businesses in the shoulder season and then kind of generate a little bit of discussion amongst the group and so we would have probably three or four sort of questions that prompt different discussions so one one would be about Route 28 you know you know are there uses or projects that you think would be desirable along rout 28 and and give it the prompt and then have people be able to discuss a little bit the ideas and then and then you know the group will talk and one thing that we did you know talk about is this is is a more Equitable way for people to have a conversation and it's a little bit easier um to to have to prevent some someone from just domineering the whole conversation or or standing up and and discussing something so the facilitated discussions will enable us to get that information and so we're looking at the economy climate resiliency housing and then Kathy kind of mentioned Community character and I don't know if maybe we can keep Community character and mes together um so so that we kind of have these four talking points yeah I guess when I think of communicat I'm wonder I'm wondering whether it might be more related to do we have any specific questions with regard to land use um you know different places where people want to see things happening right do we have any questions related to that I think mam chair I think that'd be a better way to phrase it than just a community character because that's very subjective at least if it's narrowed down to land use you can keep it focused yeah yeah that that is a great idea and it's a topic where we we would like to have a little bit more information the growth policy Kathy you actually said this really succinctly before which is with those topics they all tie back to some of the overarching goals which is that and if any of this happens it has to be you know sensitive to protecting the environment and protecting drinking water and so it ties back to that overarching theme and then I think it also ties back to um you know um the the growth policy so through this process we have to come up with this generalized statement about what do what is the arm's growth policy and I think if we use these four categories we can actually inform the growth policy from that and that's something that we currently don't we don't have enough information to to do that so it has kind of multiple benefits of doing it that way so I think if that sounds like the the the four or five categories make sense to you guys um then maybe um to kind of help I don't know whether how far Jeff's gone on on some of the questions that might be asked um but do you have is there a certain question you guys would like to hear an answer to Is there something like I really am looking for more public input on blank so just to think about maybe if you guys have some specific questions or topics you want us to touch on uh in the facilitated questions that would be good to know anyone not to in my head and that's a lot of pressure and I think what we'll do is we will craft you don't have to answer today I like doing that every once in a while you don't have to necessarily answer right the second you could you know send me I will I will offer a little Icebreaker though I think I think we I I think given my history with the board we've always struggled always struggled with this word character like there's a single notion about the character of Yarmouth and there isn't one quite frankly um I think the vision plan is the character of Yarmouth um and so when you we have this goal associated with the character it I I struggle with I've continued to struggle with that um we have great history which I would like to have a bit more of an embellishment about the history in that section and we have some great resources our historic commission and the old yth Historical Society has terrific work that they've done perhaps even in as Susan had mentioned at our last meeting what's in the in the n in the 2015 plan about the history and back what what can we use from that that might be we don't have to regenerate about some basic history about the town we have a basic history that came out of the open space and Rec plan that was actually written by the historical commission yeah that's that's what I'm thinking um anyway uh so the the character issue has always been one I I've I've I personally have struggled with um and I'm not sure if now is the time to maybe reconsider that word uh but I'd like to hear from other board members on on that Madam chair I touch on that I mean I my comment on character and excuse me and it's such a tough question because I think that town has multifaceted characters you know Route 6A is if you talk to somebody up there and ask what the character of Yarmouth is and you talk to somebody on 28 or West yth South yth it really depends on what part of town and where you're located so to think you're going to come up with one statement that's going to define the character of Yarmouth I think that's almost impossible I I think it really drives what somebody perceives as the character and what they want to see as the character moving forward that's what I understand the goal of this whole thing to be is how do we want to see yth grow and grow properly thank you K is it the feel of Yarmouth that we're trying to get at the overall feel of the community we have to I think we have to Define it first you're right the when you say yth to someone that doesn't live on the cape we should we should expect from them a picture in their mind about what they think Amoth is and I think we have to create that I so far I think that's I think that's your question yeah if you describe yarma to somebody who's never been here how would you how would you do it exactly we have struggled with that forever and you probably will hear a little bit of you know where diverse Community you know we've got you know historic section and I hate to tell you I mean I ran hotels for 25 years in this town and the people that visit this town depending on where they happen to be staying that's fine but you know what they said the character yth was a place to play mini golf and drive-thru yeah say that but that's what I would hear out of my own customers s and sleep exactly so I'm sure that's not what somebody living in yth wants to be known for so I mean I think we're trying to take what people that live in this town and how we want to see it you know described in the future and perceived absolutely it's tough because you say we have South yamas West yth 6A 28 it's like a you know it's like a big family so maybe you I don't know maybe it's the I don't know what how do you describe it but you're absolutely right there's not one defining charact there's not one defining adjective which which to me makes us pretty interesting we're not just chadam Main Street when someone thinks of chadam what do they think of oh they have a picture mind right away lovely houses in the lious either that are chatas in or the lighthouse but there's all sorts of things that come to the you say yeah you say they think mini golf and drive-throughs they don't think of us well maybe they don't think of us exactly or they don't think of us yeah but part of that is the part of that is the is the the the responsibility the leadership of this town to create that um and and somehow create it and promote it because we do have a lot to offer we don't want people just to think of the water pack yeah absolutely 28 and Captain Packers you know we want my feeling when you say leadership this town I think part of this reason this board is here we we should part of the leadership of this town yes and coming up with some sort of and and that's the kind of thing we should say to the when we on the 29th as part of the conversation what if you had to come up with one adjective or two to describe yth what would you what would you say about your hometown and what would you want Yarmouth to be known for that's how that's how I look at it Kath exactly yeah and so there's one of your questions guys you can wave your magic wand right literally if you could wave what do you want us 20 years from now what would you how would you Vision uh Envision this community right now I we're kind of a community to the urban city of hyenas but Jeff what were you saying yeah sorry I didn't mean to interrupt I I appreciate this discussion I think the the the description of what is the character is is tricky it's been tricky in other places as well um I think someone said you know for the purposes of this next meeting in terms of the the work the work component would be land use I think is a is a good way to tackle some of those items and then someone else said that the vision plan you know is actually a key a key element I I would say I would be slightly hesitant to go too far backwards and ask people what do they think is the vision of Yarmouth moving forward because you have a really wellestablished Vision plan and we don't want to lose we don't want to lose track of everything that went into that um there's a little bit that we we need to do to describe the current conditions in the armouth and some of the current characteristics but I I I don't want to go too far back and start reasing you know people the the vision moving forward because you have such a great vision plan that that looks ahead and so we're trying to fill in all the rest of the details underneath that um but I think land use is going to be the way that we can kind of get to some of those questions and then start tackling that growth policy so I think um that that would be great and then I I had something else I had picked up along the way you guys were discussing but I can't remember what it is so I apologize so so when you say land use you're talking about properties owned by the town of Yarmouth no or just no the whole the whole thing I think I think they're speaking of Redevelopment correct yeah I think it's yeah it's a little bit of everything and so you know I think there's some discussion that's clear that um the desire for a little bit more mixed uses on Route 28 and so how do we ask a couple people get some questions around that so what types of mixed uses would you want just to Anchor that and then you know housing you know I think Kathy said it is we we can find a way artfully to ask where where do you think housing might work um and the art form that why I didn't want to prepare questions in advance is because I wanted to get the sense from the board but the art the the art piece of this is we don't want want to ask people what do they need or exactly what do they think it's more like what where you know cuz most people have housing and so when you ask them where would you want to put more housing most people are like well I don't need more housing but we have to get people's frame of mind to be like well if we were going to build more housing where would it make sense and kind of keep it a a higher level view for people I I have experienced this quite a bit that people have a hard time envisioning what a town will look like in 20 years and they have an even harder time imagining things that don't concern them or don't apply to them directly so even like business growth you know people have a hard time getting their head around well they can just go over there and you know why do they need extra support and but we really have to help people understand that permitting requirements and you know the costs of things are all factors for getting new business or the person who says we just want more restaurants we have to to try to find a way to dig a little bit deeper you know to let them understand that actually you know get restaurants getting employees is really hard and where do employees live you know in order to have new restaurants they need to get the employees and they need they need the place to live so sort of the questions that we're going to try to present in the work in the work sessions will be like that so that people don't just say well I don't want any more restaurants they can say if we want more restaurants and so right employees housing is going to be part of that equation and things like that so that's going to be our task over the next week or so is to craft some questions that that get people Thinking Beyond just their own specific concerns or needs so hopefully that's helpful Madam CH Jeff Smith Jeff do you have some examples or or a example of a town that's gone through an LCP in you know in the past recent past that you say did it right and is heading in the right direction as far as that particular town you would want to keep looking I mean we're looking at a couple of other towns that had their lcps you know certified by the cape God commission MH but what we what we can't really tell is exactly what their workshops were like um so we're we're trying to create something that is unique to you guys but we'll take a look at that and find out and I think it's a great question it's just a it's hard to answer okay directly to find you know find we it's hard to know if someone's doing it right unless you're really really familiar with the town um but we'll look at that and we've we've been looking at the other lcps recently that have been certified to make sure that as the product comes forward you know it's something that the Cape Cod Commission will see and be like yes okay we we understand how this has worked so I don't mean to dodge your question specifically but it's fine Jeff I wasn't even speaking of the cape though I was talking about whether you know in New England have you worked in any other towns on an LCP that kind of they're doing it the right way and the town's really you know bought into what we're trying to do here yeah I think and Kathy has been trying to help us with this and you know we we obviously put forward a really dense long document but to to make sure that the goals and objectives and action items are imple implementable what Kathy was kind of talking about that and that we don't create too many action items that there's you know 65 things on the list that will just not get done so to really help kind of lift up the ones that are going to be the most effective to to get yth where you want to be I mean I think that's where we're aiming for so that you know it's only 10 years it's not that long what we're trying to look ahead so I think those are some of the the characteristics that we'd be looking for to help that okay Kath any anything else for us on this no I I really I agree totally with Jeff with regard to how you phrase the question because you're going to find people say exactly I got mine I don't need that so I don't the answer is not no way or nothing versus if we were to build new housing where do you think it would be appropriate I I think I think that's an excellent way of putting it Jeff and we can work on making sure that those get worded that way on that on that point though you know it's it's tough to ask somebody where they would want housing giving them options or telling them where the housing might go either town on land or 28 or adus or whatever it is that could be more helpful too because it's not a blank slate it can't go anywhere but prompting them to say this is where it could go because they're not going to know in many cases where it can go is there Tickler questions that you can that or follow-up questions because I know that when we did the visioning we kind of had like um a main question and then at the at the end we had a like a list of you know the stagnating or you're not getting what you think you need there's some particular questions to ask people but do you want to you don't want to lead people either so I think we'll we'll look at that and and I we could put think we could put a a base map you know we could put a map on the table I don't know that we'll have enough time to flesh out we we would love to have a map that illustrat some of the key activity areas within Yarmouth but I don't know that we can do that before the 29th but I think a a a map at at least and then like Kathy said a Tickler question to just make sure that as a facilitator we we've gotten some information but I do agree with the the gentleman just spoke it it is this whole task is actually cumbersome because we are asking not quite you know people off the street just walking in complicated questions and and there's complicated answers and so we're trying to at least get the sense from people if we get a sense of people who are you know saying and I don't want to name a specific road I was going to say Station app but I know you know like if if we get a general notion of you know some areas that are acceptable we can we can work with that and then work to refine it as we go a little bit further into plan and we'll look at the housing Plan before you know if if there was actually any good indications in there about potential locations we can we can double back on that and we can you know we can use that as a reference point to just there might be people who didn't participate in the HPP process and then are at this at this meeting and so we can kind of test those um especially for housing we can test that and and adus would be a great question to have except except I don't want to see the sink into a housing conversation we're obsessed with housing we should be more obsessed with economic development um I mean we we talk about housing all the time I I just don't want to see this become another you know even whole committees dedicated to the subject pardon me there's even whole committees dedicated to the subject and the hard work of the housing prodction it it has to be broader than that to be effective um you know one of the things we did I remember during the vision statement I remember one of the exercises we did I think we presented to the group at least the little group I was with the town was thinking about um three economic nodes the the big intersections Higgins craw in 28 great Island and Bass River and and concentrating on economic development in those three areas and then said to the to the group participating this is all by Zoom remember we had everything by zoom in those days um what do you think of that idea do you like that idea because we because we we don't have a center we don't we unfortunately do not we lack the luxury of having a vis but what do you think of that idea and what would you like if you do like that idea what kind of density would you would you consider and what would you like to see do you want to have mixed each intersection do you want to have one sort of known as the the medical intersection one known as the restaurant intersection and the last one known as the you know gift shop intersection whatever you want to call it but but sort of frame the conversation and sort of set the stage and ask them to react to the stage um and that was a good conversation because people sort of then realize oh yeah we have those three big sections that we could and there's vacant land in almost every single one of them at least it was at the time what do you think of that idea uh as as to as to sort ofly the framework for economic development and that was a very good and a good conversation uh but I'm really don't want to see the syn into another U affordable housing Adu we we've done been there done that let's move on I think maybe also the order with which we asked the facilitated questions are very very important I think the ones that we want to get the most information out our responses back from maybe we have that closer to the top I mean I know that when we did the survey for the open space and recck plan it was all the um conservation natural stuff first and by the time you got to the actual physical Recreation stuff a lot of people fell off um so we want to make sure that you know we're getting the the CRS of what we're looking for uh in a certain order I I I would like to go back to Peter's comment though I think Peter if I'm hearing you um the HPP is is Affordable with a capital A that's that there's a whole other Housing Industry out there that's not addressed At All by the HPP and things like adus I think are important um and and mixed use development on 28 when it's not affordable is important um so I I I think I think kind of separating the HPP because we've done all the work on affordable we've done it but there's another segment of the Housing Industry that we haven't we haven't engaged I think as fully with the public and we probably should um I I'm I'm I'm I'm kind of reading into what you said Peter but is that kind of where you were going on this a little bit it's just I think asking somebody where where would they like to see housing and not necessarily the type of housing yeah because then it could be Workforce housing could be affordable housing it could be from the vision statement uh more quality around housing for rental or home ownership housing which is not capital A so um but but suggest but not prompting but for we only have so many options where the housing can go really part of it so ask the question and maybe get an answer that's helpful not oh I don't know well Captain's Village sounds great well it's kind of already too much housing there you know unless it's the land that the um housing system who um behind housing author unless it's that land maybe we say would you like to see it there you know or would you like to see more on 28 um yeah I I I think there I I think I agree that there needs to be it can't be kind of an open-ended what do you think about this it can't yeah I we're not going we're not going to get exactly right we're not going to get an answer that's useful right Madam chair we want I mean the whole lot I again I I'll I'll be right with you Mr s but the I I think I'm I'm with you guys on the importance of outcomes for this meeting um I typically like to have outcomes um and so when we set our our goals for what we want to have come out of that meeting um I think that will kind of Drive the kinds of questions that we will be asked because we really do want you know a outcomes uh Mr Savin uh thank you madam chair um maybe looking at our zoning map for example vcd what can be done there um can you do housing there can you do mixed use maybe we want to look at these in in because as a as an average person in town they probably have no clue about what zoning is requirements are uh even in Captain's Village probably um so maybe if we tried to structure some of these questions around what types of zoning is uh are what is permissible in certain districts and whether we want to see that emphasized or not maybe that's an approach versus trying to say hey what do you think we should do with the land by saying this is our current zoning this is what we've got this is our map you know and when you get right down to it that's you know that's the board we get to play on unless we want to change some of that then that's a whole different discussion but I think when we start looking at all that we could certainly identify things like well gee we put this together but that's not really where we want things so maybe if we use zoning and and and formulate the questions around what's permissible in those areas does that work do you see that working now we're not asking anybody do you want it in that neighborhood do you want it in that neighborhood this is what our map says today happen yeah you and if we look at it from that perspective um you know you know you look at madaky's property for example right now what is the current zoning there well we're going to need to change that if we want other things to happen there but um I think right now when we start with that base of this is what we got um that might help formulate just I don't know maybe kind of spitballing as they say but maybe that might be an approach I actually I think that's a great I think that's a great idea and I think that actually coincides with the land use sort of discussion piece in the growth policy I think that's a I think we need a little bit of time to think about that but I think that's a great way to Anchor that conversation like you said instead of asking people where kind of talk about the zoning map and opportunities now and just get a little bit more consensus I think what Susan mentioned I would love to try to find any information about the three nodes that were previously mentioned and just see if they line up with the zoning District so I think that's a great orientation for us and then the discussion about housing was also really informative and I think we will try to steer clear of asking like where where would you think housing makes sense but rather maybe talk about a couple different types of housing uh that's not in the HPP so adus um Workforce housing even seasonal worker housing I think though I think there's a way we can get some consensus or some ideas going on those which are topics that we don't have a lot of we don't have we do I'm sure the town has a lot of information about it but in terms of this process we don't have a lot of um information to back kind of recommendations there and then so I think that's great if that if this is really helpful for us to kind of take this next step we're going to try to prepare some stuff and get it to Kathy probably first and then once Kathy because Kathy's very very helpful in kind of just making sure we're set in the right area then get it to you all before we're finalizing the questions and this just I have two other questions and I know we're running along I have two questions about your the playing board's opinion on people's bandwidth for for how long this meeting should be you know I I think we were trying to Target a presentation that would be like 20 minutes but I think in all honesty it's probably going to be a little bit longer I would imagine like a presentation being like 30 minutes to kind of give a thorough overview of all the LCP components and then just a little bit of time to get in the break breakout rooms we had pegged like 30 minutes for the breakout rooms but the breakout sessions but I'm not sure that's long enough yeah and so I just wanted to get a sense from the board if we maybe allotted like 45 minutes for people to get through some of these discussions and then kind of come back and Report out so there was that and then just double-checking that by asking some questions about mades that we're not going to interrupt or confuse kind of the ongoing discussions that you have so just making sure that we want to ask questions about mes was my was my final question I think um that that's a good question they um when the muck went before the select board the select board was very interested in having them um conduct a survey and do more public Outreach so they are working on an actual survey uh kind of using the drivein sight original survey where you're talking about like asking people people what are your policy goals for this particular property what are you looking for are you looking to make just economic money are you looking to um have indirect uh impacts those types of things so maybe we can ask some policy questions and then just kind of a general question with regard to applicability of the there six teams of different land uses on the six teams and just ask a general question about that I wanted to talk to Bill Scott about it so that we're not stepping on any toes um originally we had talked about adding some stuff with madis I just feel like it really falls into the land use so good I don't think we can't ask any questions about mades um but that was before that they were going to do the survey and that type of thing now I think they're doing much more um public I and I have more information on that update of the um madak Keys when we get to that or I can do it now if you if you want uh so you can want you do it now maybe it would be informative for them if they don't know already it's just it's just kind of things have gotten delayed uh delayed a little bit um so what they're looking for is to having other than housing which they've already scheduled their meeting for next Tuesday for their brainstorming session what their first of the three meetings the 21st yeah that they've he's requested that everybody submit their um their three dates their solid three dates ahead of time um and I think he wanted it by um by the Janu January 23rd yes respond by January 23rd because the muck is having an uh their next meeting on the 27th they want to get all the meetings and then do a publicity push so the public knows that all this stuff is going on and here are the three meetings that are happening um for all of these different the six teams can I just start you there members of the board have you been in touch with anyone about your schedules for the three meetings no no yes okay raise my hand is saying no I know what Recreations are and I've already I've got an email from okay and I've responded and I don't think he's heard I don't I think mostly the town Services is staff so I think that's easier to schedule versus trying to schedule a public meeting uh schools we haven't heard back from the superintendent heard anything yet so that's why you probably haven't that's open C uh and Peter for CDC CDC was told this we had one schedule for the end of this month but we were told this morning um Karen green sent an email Bill Scott told us that the meeting can occur no sooner than February 10th our first one so we reshuffled all our meetings yeah 24th March 31st April 28th I don't I don't know why but we were going to meet sooner theing it's for the advertising so that everybody can they can advertise all the three dates of all all the three different groups um all at once so people from the public can decide oh you know I'm really interested in that and I want to go to the cedc meeting I want to well then I will add to then um the chamber has been given permission to meet by themselves without the see DC Group for the first meeting what meet with who themselves Mark um no themselves they have their own advisory committee have a 14 Person Advisory advisory the chamber has developed their own advisory committee so is it just chamber meeting with chamber or is anyone else invited no there are other folks invited but it's it's I don't I don't understand how this is working it's neither do I the Chamber of comms the Chamber of Commerce has set up a Advisory Group to discuss matter case yes and who is this advisory who who are they advising is this information going to come to us is it going to go to the board no so were you asking if it's a public meeting and would fall under the public I know it's not public knowing the chamber I'm you're probably under lock and key but um it is so what are they advising each other to no it's their brainstorming session that's their brainstorming session and they think they were having difficulty scheduling a meeting with all of their 14 advisers and cedc for that first brainstorming session so they just decided the cedc is going to do theirs they're going to do those but for the second meeting where he was trying to narrow things down then they're going to come back together for the next second and third meeting and then so on and so forth got it are any members of the planning board on this 14 member advisory committee no I don't believe so no no but no we are part of the other group so in right Peter is yes so in essence bra run and mucking will happen just no just parallel it's parallel run ofing for that group and for your in open space is January 22nd at 2 o' all right so we've got some yes it was I don't know whether it's still happening or not because that was before oh this came out was the email I received this morning did you receive it this morning okay so then I think there's a couple this morning it may change but there's a couple people who have already already scheduled their first brainstorming session uh and I think that they obviously housing has already done so with two different committees which is extremely difficult um but I also think I also think maybe open space one might to go a little bit faster based on yeah it's a one hour meeting there less options for that one then like hour schedu for the 22nd at 2 o'cl from 2 to 3 it's a zoom meeting which I'm which is great up sorry sorry for the interruption to our to our Consultants they must be looking at us with crossed eyes uh anyway there was also on my understanding from um I'm trying to go to the Muk meetings um there was a resignation from someone on the committee already because of the amount of work I think that's involved I think not knowing necessarily what was going to be involved in the process and things that there was there happy a deadline that they want to have at least an initial meeting with all the subcommittees I thought it was I thought it was the middle of February have they pushed that back I think it's March I it's that at least all subcommittees will have met at least once wasn't there a deadline for that well they're all going to meet in February instead of January the first meeting should all be done in February or before for like housing and then the second meeting in March and then the third meeting now has been pushed out to April and and Madam chair may I follow up on one other thing I guess to be fair to the education use group given that there's now that the town has been accepted into the msba study process that changes a lot of the I don't know parameters about what we can even talk about about educational use on that property because truly what matters more respectfully than our our educational use team meeting what matters way more is the work and the outcome of that study like that matters a hundred times more than us meeting three times um so I guess that's a nice way of saying it's okay that we haven't met yet because I I think what's happening is if I could completely just throw something against the wall I'm assuming the superintendent is thinking the same thing and he's trying to figure out well now that we're in this study what am I supposed to do about this muck thing because honestly the study is what matters what is the study will um well it's all it's all there was a zoom last week about it uh it's I want to say half a million I could be wrong um but there's a lot of work that has to go into just getting the study off the ground and also approving having the town of Yarmouth approve you know whether we're actually going to pay for the study so like there's all this other stuff that has to happen so I guess I don't want it to seem like I'm that upset that our educational team hasn't met because I do think that the reality is that that msba process is way more important so I won't register my lack of mck meetings as disappointment thank you madam so if I can help our poor people from uh yeah yeah um well we're trying to answer the question of how we talk about Muk or the M property at our meeting Jim is is spot on our Consultants are valuable resources let's not waste their time I I think that the whole discussion of Muk I I I would probably suggest that ask Bill Scott what kind of question you want us to ask seems reasonable because all these study groups that are going to give him answers anyway if they want us to include them what do you want us to do what yeah but but to his credit Madam chair and this still helping our our Consultants maybe because there's so much work being done by the muck and all these six teams we should spend maybe as little time as necessary on the 29th because we only have the two hours that we're going to have whereas these mck teams and and and the specificity of each team which would lend it to public participation you know in a much more granular way than us flying a little higher off the ground maybe it it's only a question that doesn't take up more than five minutes of our meeting on the 29th Madam chair that's what I was trying to say we'll give mck one question what do you wish it to be that'll take and they'll say have you watched any of our meetings I mean and I don't so can we do that Kathy can we I'm gon to talk to Bill Scott like I said should give us what kind of the questions are that uh we would ask um our our Consultants to help us with and go from there and if we think it's consuming too much time we'll we'll just we'll just control the conversation the good news is we have a place for folks who who are really passionate about madis in our meeting in two weeks there's outlets for them now in a very specific way that didn't even exist a month or two months ago y maybe it's just uh advertising the list of the meetings and doing a little publicity which by the 29th will have a pretty good handle on I would like to and these will be interested people in the room anyway and online who would want to maybe go to one of those team meetings I think um thank you for letting us listen to that it's a it's quite a fascinating process that you guys are going through with that whole with that property um I it has offered some clarity for me and I I think the interesting thing about mes is that it will actually touch on a lot of the things that it's it touches on almost every element of the comprehensive plan but in a really sight spefic specific way um what I think we'll do for now is hold a a you know a topical area around land use and so we've got some good direction on on zoning and kind of like some of the discussion pieces and we can hold I think we'll hold a spot for manes to fall into this land use discussion um and this is helpful for me because before I actually had it penciled out as a whole you know a whole topic so like if you describe these one page um facilitators guide I actually was kind of holding a whole page for manes but I think we'll merge it into land use and we can work with Kathy if it doesn't make sense well if people are talking about manes in the landuse group we can say we we'll have some way to point them to the next step like well that's really specific we're going to talk about that in a couple weeks or something so that actually helps us it's a it's a really fascinating kind of process that you guys are laying out but I think we we'll take some cues from Kathy but we won't overemphasize manak keys I I like that um May I make a comparison I mean it's no different in some ways Madam chair that if someone's very passionate about the future of recreational facilities in our town that there's an open space and wreck plan that has that was 18 months worth of work that folks who come to the meeting on the 29th that we can refer them to to say if you want to take a deeper dive than the five minutes we're going to have tonight go there it's no different than somebody coming to our meeting on the 29th all fired up about madis the good news is there's an outlet for them now and same thing with the housing production plan again for the appropriate subject matter and the capital Improvement plan there you go sorry I'm sorry Kathy there we go no that's fine I I guess my only question is getting back to the length of time I think a 30 minute presentation is too long I think 20 20 minutes I was like okay maybe but um and I know it's going to be really hard I think as you start putting the presentation together you can get an idea of the length of it and maybe what needs to be emphasized or not now I do think it is important that people understand all of the components in the LC CP um and that we are touching on X Y and Z mainly this evening and go to the open space and Rec plan and and or whatever you maybe refer people to some other other things um but I think 30 minutes is too long that's helpful gu and I appreciate that that's why I wanted to ask that question so I appreciate that members of the board Mr sa I I agree I think the the importance of this is the more time in those breakouts right um that we can get the better we are so if we can you know keep our introduction short and sweet and get right into the breakouts and make those longer than 30 minutes maybe maybe two 20 minute and take a break in the middle for 20 minutes break come back um I'm trying to you know get my milk and cookies out of this deal here so um if if we get a break then then then we'll get some cookies I agree with Mr sain I think maybe they could do maybe our Consultants could do 10 or 15 minutes that leads to some Breakout and then we come back for some reporting and maybe there's another piece of the presentation I don't know and then we go back out I just think the more people are sitting around whether it's virtually or otherwise uh the less effective it will be but also can I ask Madam chair I mean our Consultants have done this before right with lots of other communities I mean what's the what's the ideal time for people to sit and listen to something and absorb information until you can tell it's not it's not being effective anymore yeah oh Adam you want yeah want yeah I would just maybe chime in on one this one specific topic sorry for the record Adam desano BC group um you know I think I think 15 minutes might be too short I think you know it's going to take some time to sort of prime the pump a little bit get people talking and then I think you know you're really going to get into your good conversations on the back end of that and I just think 20 minutes is probably a little bit better like it's going to go by very quickly once people start talking especially if you know the more people we have in each group there's going to be more opinions that are being provided so I guess that would be my vote you know Jeff and planning board that you know I think 20 minutes might be you know the time frame you want to shoot for for the breakout rooms correct the breakout rooms I was talking more about the presentation length I'm I appreciate you saying what you said and I'll I'll I I believe you it was more about just the manipulation of people and their attention span literally is what I'm asking in terms of you guys presenting information that now on top of everything else is going to be in hybrid format so I just wondered what your expert advice is on that I mean I think that finding the sweet spot for the length of presentation is still an art form we will take your queue which we have done already with the with the draft that we provided is go with brevity and I think referring people to the existing plans as long as the board's comfortable with that because we if we're too short people are going to say well I didn't get anything out of that right and that might that might actually happen but there's so many resources available so we'll have to kind of present just just enough to keep people's attention and so we'll Target for 15 uh 15 to 20 minutes and then I think I think our our I think our best experience would probably be to keep people in the breakout rooms the breakout groups and just get through it so I agree 35 40 45 minutes I think rather than pulling them in and out cuz I think people might lose true transition time can be hard and you might lose people you will lose excellent point but I I hear the the shorter at the beginning and then kind of focus on the the discussions and I think that's that's really good practice and we can do that I just wanted to get a sense cuz the shorter we go with the presentation just the more likelihood that people are going to be like well what about this and what about that and we're just we will do our best to kind of refer people and I will also really try to articulate that this is the this is the middle let's call this the middle of this process so you know it's not the end and so there'll be more time to participate and especially with madis there'll be plenty of time for people to participate and so I think we'll kind of just shed some of that weight by by letting people know that if they're really interested in a certain topic there's a lot of information available so this is perfect this is really helpful guidance for me I think that's crucial because I I do think that some people are going to show up here thinking that we're you're just going to dump all this stuff you know that this is their time to learn as opposed to no this is the time for you to interact and and those are two very different things even if folks choose not to do the second one if that makes any sense anything else members of the board good are we good Kath I'm good and and yeah I'll wait and see what what they come up with again for joining us this evening we really appreciate it and uh and your ability and in uh adjusting to some of the changes we've suggested in terms of format and uh a brevity I know it was a bit of a it wasn't a slow curve uh for sure but you guys you know have been so flexible and adaptable we we really appreciate it yep and appreciate your guidance too it's really helpful great have a great night and thanks for having us good night now thanks again thank you thanks for your time uh anything else on the what did you want to go through Kathy the the um the package you put together on issues we can talk very briefly about it I think everyone R Us through a little bit um I I just how you had restructured this I think a a little bit yeah um I don't want to fill it up but um so so I think I tried to include a little bit of the things that you guys had talked about I think we need to have a welcome to Yarmouth section and that's really the brief history and it might provide some of the basic demographics there's not a lot of demographics that are necessarily required as part of the LCP you know it has to do with population I think ages are important for us because of of of that uh top employment median household income housing un just a few couple things I'd like to keep this short and sweet and maybe this might be a good place to include a um a map of the town of Yarmouth just to orient people so welcome to Yarmouth here's a map of us and here are some of the basic information about us before we start saying oh and here's our vision um so I think also I tried to to pair down the vision the Community Vision uh portion of it just kind of calling it yarmouth's future talking about the vision plan process and then the fact that we're utilizing this for the growth policy the vision plan would be exactly as page two um from the vision plan with the with the big one at top and then the work um live work Play and Learn and then I took a you know a a very generic shot at the growth policy just to kind of start that conversation the growth policy does not need to be something that is five pages long it can be as short and simple I think as something like this which is really emphasizing what we're trying to do with our growth you know um basically to pursue managed growth and development that adds value to our community and benefits our residents and visitors while protecting the resources and I'm sorry Community character maybe we change that um that we cherish um and then just saying economic growth should be focused in areas with Municipal sewer including aesthetically pleasing mixed use or commercial development Redevelopment along Route 28 and our hotel properties along Southshore Drive and then other areas of potential growth include adjacent to the Cape Cod hospital and thoughtful reuse of the town-owned former mes middle school property to address variety of community needs as our community grows and involves ensure the protection of historic and cultural resources promote resiliency and Steward our valuable water and environmental resources we may add in where we want more growth and a lot of stuff will come out of the um hopefully will come out of the land use section of the meeting that we're having but this is just a a start of some ideas some from some things that I have been hearing on throughout this entire process so um not meant to be anything other than free form thoughts coming out of Kathy's head um and then um I really went through um and and kind of highlighted in the different um key issues that I had identifi had come out of the open space and wck plan with regard to Water Resources obviously has to do a lot with drinking water surface water and saltwater um and then and then the all the impacts that they're having uh being impacted by the variety of things same thing with wet I didn't want to necessarily go through all of I don't know what you're looking for um but you know Wetlands there's concern with sea level rise and impacting salt marshes um untreated storm water over fertilization um you know we have a lot of um abandoned a few abandoned bogs and degraded Wetlands maybe we should be looking at restoring those um and then open space having to do with adequate upkeep maintenance which we've heard a lot about um and then proper usage of them and signs on the Trails um some things that we've heard about concerns again cing out of the open space and wck plan uh the built systems with Community design and land use some things that we've heard is the lack of large walkable downtown and trying to balance the growth in suitable locations um you know the fact that Municipal Wastewater is coming uh do we have everything in place that we need in order to make sure that we get the things that we want to get and a Clear Vision of what we see there um and then we've been hearing things about concerns about too much residential development on Route 28 Corridor um and then just again the madaky property uh um and also simplifying permitting and and providing different housing and economic development opportunities uh transportation and connectivity this was pretty I think straightforward and came a lot out of the actual Vision plan of increasing you know we're having increasing speeds traffic congestion safety concerns throughout the year not just in the summer anymore I think that really came out of the station Avenue study only a 10% increase uh in summer compared to year round so the the summer bump there is isn't isn't as big as elsewhere we have a we actually have multiple intersections that are on the barnable County uh High crash location um we can kind of list event as we discussed that section we can list those we also have a very high dependency on cars a lot to do with commuting as well as limited public transportation um increased traffic impact again along Station Avenue and that we had that study people are really concerned about pedestrian safety and bicycle safety and lack of connectivity and the gaps in our uh sidewalks um I also threw in kind of came out of the Route 6A was a lot of narrow road layouts and the historic contents and environmental constraints are really impacting the ability to necessarily to add these different types of multimodal uh onto onto the roadways um and then talking also about um I think uh Susan mentioned this as well as the par cfic Association about really doesn't seem to be a lot of influence or input on improvements that are going on at the Cape Cod uh Gateway Airport we've been I think trying to participate and offer suggestions but it has there hasn't been particularly influential especially with regard to flight PL and and noise being generated um and then also impacts to roadway networks due to sea level rise and climate change we are doing that study south of Route 28 to kind of identify uh low-lying roads that could be getting flooding and impacting people's ability to get in and out you know emergency vehicles and storms and that type of thing um Coastal resiliency again the low-lying roads there um impacts from all the natural ha hazards for human life property and the environment that's one of the things that we're really looking at um very detailed in the housing uh housing production plan and the hazard mitigation plan there's too many plans going on uh that we're currently working on uh we do have some critical facilities like the fire station one that's located in a slash Zone I think it's like the category four um and then there's also um some some critical facilities like the special flood Hazard area for the uh packet landing and that's where we have all our Public Safety vessels are docked so we do have a resiliency plan in place for some opportunities to to improve that we are always concerned with Coastal erosion and the need for Shoreline nourishment um and then just kind of the lengthy process uh for just maintenance drudging and Beach nourishment permitting I mean we we've been working trying to get the upper reaches of the Bass River uh permitted I think with Dennis for quite some time and then just whether we have enough Staffing to apply for and administer all these resiliency projects and Grant uh applications we've been very successful in getting grants but to have more and more projects without with the same number of staff is becoming uh a little bit difficult um climate mitigation sustainability um you know having to do with the cost of energy um and how ground mounted solar though that may be good it's also very um land intensive and we have a scarce amount of that and a lot of other needs for it um we've heard some um issues with Aesthetics of parking uh lot solar canopies um especially related to large parking lots uh along Route 28 um not enough EV charging stations as we move towards electric vehicles um we did have that great meeting with the recycling and solid waste committee recently and they were talking about the different shaking locations to dispose of solid waste the Wastewater sludge and even hazardous materials um and it's also the prices are going up and up and up whereas the prices um for recyclable materials is going down um and they had a lot of uh it was it was a great meeting actually um and they were really like not just promoting things like Reduce Reuse and recycle but um concerns about what do we do about repairing and refurbishing and donating is there other ways that we can get stuff out of the wa stream um and then there's a lot of discussions and I think you might all be familiar with it I don't know how much detail you want me to do I'm getting some I would say less you're getting I would suggest less excuse me okay so you can read the rest I mean to I'm just very passionate about this can I can I interrupt and just go back on something you know there's a lot of detail here but um I think one of the things I seem to be missing is um Bass River itself um and and you know we we comment about you know Lewis Bay water quality I know the the friends of Bass River are are doing some projects with replacing a break actually I think is the the plan so that's some big stuff that's going to impact us so I'm not sure how you fit that in but I don't see any mention of the word fit that in in recent actions by the town where I you don't have that section this was just to kind the the the assignment that we had been given was to try and identify what we thought were key issues so I kept it simple to the key issues I think Jim makes a good point in terms if you're going to talk about the embayments and the estuaries we should include if we're going to say Louis Bay we should include Parker River we should include Bass River and quite frankly we should probably include Fallen Pond um uh just because of its location to the north Dennis Road Culvert um as as one of those as one of those continuing areas of where there's going to be issues uh with flow um and water quality Madam chair if you want to carry it one step further the uh the bass hole Grace Beach and the fact that you won't have that that's right let's not forget the North side the erosion issues and they'll never well the encroachment issues the beach is gone there is no beach you can walk to Dennis now yeah you can you can well you could yeah you can Tech almost walk to chapen I think maybe for the key issues maybe we want to take out the specificity of the Lewis Bay and just talk about our estuaries in general fine that's fine as action items come getting very specific yeah yeah that's fine Kath um I I also had a comment on that as well just in terms of just and you do talk you did add in dredging thank you but just increasing sediment everywhere it's everywhere on the coastline I mean it just keeps building up sediment meaning sand and and just tidal flow as astion and yeah it just and sediment transport and all that stuff uh it's going to continue to be an issue and part of the issue is you don't know where it's going to where it's going to wind up you have to kind of do a review um Mr sailor Navigator you would know I mean every year you go to they got to figure out where the shs are because they're not in the same place that they were um you go to chadam light and every year you look out there at chadam light changes where that opening there was an opening there last year and there's not anymore at the mouth of the river right now um other other comments other members have because I've got a couple um but anyone else like to in on okay um Kathy un built systems um key issues lack of a large walkable downtown is that really an issue it's come up repetitively repetitively so okay that's why we did the whole vcd bylaw change was because we don't have any defined downtown to help the ga we're never going to have a large defined downtown correct and maybe that's the answer but it still means it's an an issue that has been identified that people are still raising oh it's yeah yes every document it's in our vision plan it's it's all over it's still mentioned I think some part of the I don't think I'm asking the question right but anyway the the downtown you know I think some people would be acceptable when they look at downtown dennisport um you know it's the main drag through town but there's some walkable activities there and I think you know when you start talking about a downtown most people would like to see I don't know that I've ever talked to Redevelopment of great Island all the way down to the river and you know up to even where the chamber is now that whole section to be I think that's part of an an an actual zoning District that allows that but the question becomes how do you encourage it to happen you know um and that's but it seems like there would be multiple ones I mean I would love to see the whole Bass River um intersection um at the bridge um that whole that's a that's part of a vcd I think no it's not an activity center though for the um from the Cape Cod Commission because that was identified as more of a walkable area in our community you know and this the couple little strip malls and well we we did a road there we did the road at the gas station um I maybe there's a better way to say it V area these are Villages you know better defined Villages or I I don't know opportun we're never gonna get a downtown no so Madam chair um 172 million years ago when we first undertook these processes first we here the economic development chapter I think the very first comprehensive plan which was probably 127 million years ago um we actually went out and and and targeted some of these areas and I part of the history of how the cultural center became the cultural center was because we had looked at that four corners and the potential of a new library there and uh and how you could redevelop that area and we carried that through the entire Route 28 area so some of that's been kind of beat up and talked about but as you can see you know after 127 million years still not a lot of Olympia is still there yes which is good because I kind of like I'm not I'm not complaining maybe it's the word downtown Madam chair maybe it's lack of large walkable blankety Village Center Center the downtown word I guess I guess my point is I don't want to Wordsmith this Kathy I don't want to have to downtown I agree but you're not but you're but you're right I mean for it to say downtown it's not say better defined Village centers or walkable Village centers walkable Village centers makes I think that's more defined to what we're trying to say here the bottom line is there's got to be something walkable to walkable too there's sidewalks in 28 now but where are you walking to and that even and even 6A with the work that's going to potentially be done on 6a that Kathy's working on up there that also has a has a lot to do with walk a lot to do with walk Redevelopment of that roadway that's going to draw people to that area Y and they don't have a big parking lot to put them so's going to happen with that it's a building build them and they will come mentality of these areas uh the second one it's it's also in this section as well built systems the fourth bullet too much residential development maybe it's just the adjectives here along Route 28 there are some voices in town who say there is too much residential development and Peter I really appreciate you asking the question GE how many units are on 28 maybe it's residential development impact our route 28 there's a lot there's a lot every one of them takes away from commercial activity but just drop the words too much yeah well I'm I'm reading I'm reading the answer that Kathy gave Peter okay and I look at this as 69 units 40 units 120 maybe maybe 23 maybe 40 but existing 6941 120 it's a Four Mile Stretch of Road 230 I I and then there are the planned other ones that we know are in the works somewhere what's I guess I'm just concerned about the right someone has someone and because we hear this we hear we've heard this from various um members of the chamber and others too much residential development I I I think we should be cautionary in putting an adjective on that I agree with the word smithing because this was just again I know I know brain dumping but no I appreciate it because this is the stuff that matters because when we start like writing it into the reports we have an opinion about this yes yep and I'm not sure the board has a put a question unless you put unless you put a question mark at the end of it and say is there too much you can do that with every bullet point in this thing and I'm not sure that's where we want to go I think residential development impacts I think that's all it needs to be said take the words too much out and start with residential development I don't I don't issue right residential development is an issue without it being too much or not too much well and some people's perception is their reality I mean I don't think I don't think some people who think that there's too much housing on 28 um have gone through this exercise to see exactly what too much means so I think just dropping words too much allows us to have that discussion about what is too much the the perception in town though right now is that the recent Redevelopment on Route 28 has only been housing and whether that's right or wrong and there's not much AR perception exactly I I I when you look at this they're not wrong right but I think if we just drop the words too much you're going to get a discussion about that whole issue and if I may Peter I'm curious as to why you asked the question 14 I I because I think the too much or when you look at uh div vision statement where says more quality more affordable more seasonal it's just there's nothing's Quantified so so what what are we trying to get to so that we can say too much and what was left off of the sheet was that there are also 164 hotel rooms which are Workforce housing so throw that into whatever else is happening because that's a residential component y taking away from the hotel rooms um you know we've also lost over 400 hotel rooms you know um since that time period too um 143 of those were hotel rooms they're now Workforce housing rooms 100% they were 50% and they went to 100% which is great but I think it needs to all be looked at in terms of numbers and quantifying the data instead of just throwing out adjectives right so this may be one of the existing conditions Kathy that we need to you know in terms of how we describe things and the facts that we use that we incorporate this kind of um these kind of numbers in terms of what we know about the 28 Corridor what we what we actually know um and I I think that the the the the the the uh the ones that are coming up that have been approved here and elsewhere are mixed in and by and large are mixed use um and that that I think um we need to there's going to be a residential component of that as well but it is also commercial Redevelopment anyway I the point is just the too much and I I think we're kind of all in agreement on that so I'm not going to blame that that can probably be all of these can probably be rephrased more as statements because I do agree that there's some opinion in here or conclusion in here that we don't want to be necessarily making although um maybe it's just cautionary with residential development it's kind of implies that it's taking over or or the concern is that it might be taking over the commercial Corridor so I it very easily could yeah any edits you guys have like that that would be great yeah once you know once the source so I I I get it would be something along the lines of uh preserving the commercial coridor yes Route 28 um as a viable just stop commercial stop it preserving preserving throughout 28 as a viable commercial Corridor period that's an issue apparently Maybe no it has to be I think once you put that bloodline down the middle of Route 28 yeah watch out again I keep saying we need to look at our zoning and what's allowable because what's allowable is a whole lot different than what's going to be financially feasible exactly right and you don't have to put a septic system in anymore you just got to connect well we have two and a half years the game it does two and a half years until everything comes online so we do have some time other um comment Kathy I just if you can add somewhere under transportation um and I only know that because I pass under it well I don't know 20 times a year uh and Mark Forest starts select remember like the root six bridge is dead it's gone um and I don't know where it is on the tip I don't think it's on it oh it would be the step six Bridge the six Bridge B River over Bass River it is it's going to it it soon will be similar to The Bass River Bridge declared um whatever not bridge over the yeah down by the two the two two roadways with the wooden pilings if you're passing by them you're not you're a little scared and and it is and it has been it has been you know dot knows about it um but but it just hasn't made it hasn't been elevated on the tip and I think that's a really a critical issue not just for underneath for on top it's also gets to um title restriction as well got it thanks because that's a severe title restriction it improved vastly with the rail trail right uh but uh that bridge isn't isn't really the under the underlings of the bridg abutments are really not in good shape been there years is I'll give you a ride I'll give you a ride up the river oh I I got my own vote I see it can you you is too big you can't even get under the Bass River Bridge so I don't my little one I can uh sorry about that um I have anything else no you mentioned CPA I think I'm I think I'm good Kathy all all very good points and feel free to go through and let me know comments yep all very good points thank you you know if you put it in front of me I'm going to look at it and I appreciate that very much so next on our agenda I'm not sure do we need to talk any more about the mck no I do we just CL I just want to clarify a couple things go ahead Jim so just um I'm the recreation representative and I know we got a new member coming on the board um I just got our dates and two out of the three dates I am out of the country so I'm only going to be able to attend one of their shop so I'm going to attend all of them so it's up to you guys I mean I'll give them everything I can within that one meeting God bless them um well could could the new when is the new new member coming on board Kath um she's being approved on the 21st I mean I just found out about it today so next Tuesday's going to be on the appointment could she pick up on Jim's too it can certainly be discussed we're not going to discuss it until February 5th I'm I'm covering for the vacancy oh are you yeah okay I'm covering for the vacancy so we need we it needs to be a general discussion I think I'm very excited though about the new member uh since she brought it up Jim dear D gaquin we all got the note I don't know her who got a note oh I I guess I'm not reading as much email as I should um sorry sorry that I missed I'm very excited to welcome her congratulations great news and if she's here on the 21st maybe she can come to the 29th yeah I I'll I'll reach out to her yeah I'm sorry M you that's only because of your unavailability wait for two other and I've notified the the chair so I don't know if they're going to change their dates I doubt they will for me they shouldn't um on attendance uh for the 29th everybody's going to be here yes yes yes okay great uh but as it relates to the mucket Madam chair before we move on yes um so I didn't watch the meeting from last night were you did you attend it Cathy wasn't there Monday night or Monday night was it Monday night yep Monday so so all the things you were updating us on earlier in the meeting when we the Consultants were here were based on what happened at their meeting correct and that email that came out today I don't know I don't know I'm not I guess the one about the the delay and not doing any um first I didn't see that no I know I'm saying but that email went you didn't get it oh okay I was like you were saying it like I should have read it and I apologized the email that like Peter got from K not you probably didn't get the whole email but the sum Su C staff have now turned around since Monday's meeting and done stuff sent out emails or done things bill sent out an email requesting that the three meetings get set and that they provide those meetings by January 23rd so that the mck can meet on the 27th confirm those dates and start publicity for those the public knows about it and they can participate if they would like so for those of us that haven't heard January 23rd we should hear something should hear something in the next week 27th is when yeah the 27th when the mck meets after that you will find out so do you anticipate that open space meeting they changeed I can't say okay no big deal yeah yeah I don't know whether they're just going to say we it was hard to schedule I think there's concom members present it's been advertised yes so that they may decide to move forward with a general brainstorm in one I don't know time I don't know as I know is that the housing has been sanctioned to have their meeting on Tuesday January 21st at 3M in this room and I mean good news the more we the sooner we start the sooner we start okay thank you madam chair anyone else on on this okay so uh just you know kind Kathy's been sending us stuff with regard to uh the utilization committee presentation to the board of Selectmen she sent out uh the uh RFP that's on the street that will be um responses are due January 30th um it was an interesting way to put out an RFP I thought anyway uh uh it it was uh hopefully we'll get some good responses uh it was kind of a recalibration of all of the memos that have been sent and it wasn't in the typical format of an RFP Consultants may have questions about what's their job and what's other people's jobs that's all it was you know the deliverables were who's responsible for that deliverable I mean that's the way I was okay who put out the RFP Madam chair uh procurement Bill typically curement staff writes the it was a reformatting of the seven stages phases that we've all been SE that we've all seen as part of our committee assignments um with deliverables at the end of each with some question on my part as to resp who's responsible for that okay anyway um okay that's so we we're good with MK um meeting meeting minutes um I have a motion to accept the meeting minutes of January 8th so moved second any discussion all in favor I um committee updates any committee updates nobody's met right I I met today saw you impressive never a day without a meeting Madam chair I'm soorry oh in my life um uh CPC met today and we finalized our uh budget for uh the allocation of the um funding that will be recommending to the board of Selectmen select board select board um we will be recommending uh $1.8 million in I think I've got that right um in Awards uh and they range from the largest one is for the affordable housing trust which will be for over $600,000 um there's uh uh funding for the station Avenue playground uh for 200,000 actually chasebrook masterp Park is the biggest the big winner this year 746,000 we're helping the yd Red Sox with player safety um by uh replacing the out the Outfield fence with a warning track out there um for 70,000 the South Yarmouth Methodist Church is going to get new sighting for 325,000 again these are all subject to approval by the select board and town meeting um we will have um ancient Cemetery preservation Revolutionary War Monument Friends Meeting House restoration um some Ada improvements at the cultural center and then we will have an open space Reserve amount of over 200,000 so we all approved that today and they'll be going to town meeting um in April so no no open space purchase no open space requests this year so we put everything back into into Reserve so that's what I have okay Katherine correspondence you've been sending us stuff Conservation Commission and stuff so anything else you need to I can't think of I think everyone got the memo on our new our new member and I apologize Madam chair I just looked at my email again and there it was as you had mentioned just came up can I can I mention one thing and I know that Linda is on as a member of the public but as someone who did spend some a portion of my life on the library planning committee um it's wonderful news that the mass uh Board of Library Commissioners has awarded us I believe $100,000 yes they have and that is a competitive process Linda do you want to you want to join us for a minute Liam can you might have logged out she might her she is hi Linda you're on mute hello hi there thanks for joining us congratulations again um we're thrilled yes it's been a long process to get us to this point um it's $100,000 correct uh up to $100,000 matching I believe yes Jane is the best one to give you the details of it but do you have two sentences on like what happens next and what the timeline is or should we defer to Jane well J as I said Jane can give details but I know she attended a um two sessions of a uh uh workshop and is getting the timeline down but um it's going to be quite a lengthy process um and I'm not sure exactly I I think I would really prefer to defer to Jane because uh I don't think there's been a a real public um announc uh announcement to everybody about it and what it involves still great news and congratulations to you and all the other nice folks who have worked hard we thank everybody for their support too and and when we brought it forward to the town so thank you thanks Linda thanks for joining us this evening did you have any other questions very interesting interesting meeting than you Linda thanks Linda okay Madam chair yes um could I go to the upcoming meeting section of our and and ask what is the road we're naming oh very exciting um I was asking I wonder myself it's very simple we've we're responsible for having a public hearing to rename private roads there's a dead end Road that's called um technically it's called Harold um I might be getting them wrong Harold Lane but sometimes it's referred to as Harold Road and they want to just clarify that and and and correct it it's got a lot of support from um the anyone near there the ABS they originally had it on the December 10th uh select board agenda for the public hearing uh but I pointed out that you guys it's for private roads it's it's us to to have the public hearing changing it from Lane to Road or road to lane or to we've done it before like one road is like we've done it the same road three times literally every time the new person it's a one it's a road for one property so every time they move there they want to name it after themselves so uh it's been three times um it should be very simple lofty motivation on these things well thank you I was quite curious as to what name we're what what what we're doing with naming things today and any other um comments or concerns from board members uh so we have uh meetings coming up uh obviously the 29th and that's at 6 o'clock for yeah or 530 okay so that's six and then our regular meeting could be our reain date meeting uh February 5th and then the February 19th right now I don't have anything for the February 5th meeting so it might be nice not to meet then okay um um but we do need to meet on the 19th because that will be a public unfortunately Madam chair it's that's a school vacation week and I will be out of I will not be in attendance on the 19th on the 19th right okay all right I may I have a motion to adjourn so moved how a second second thank you any discussion all in favor I I disc somebody need a second